From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Yoga
Date: March 31, 2003 at 8:34:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am curious as to the lists feelings towards different types of Yoga. In particular does anyone have any thoughts/feelings about Bikrams Yoga?
Thanks, Peace,
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Time Traveler Busted
Date: March 31, 2003 at 4:05:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/wwn/20030319/104808600007.html
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: “herczeg csaba” <csabszter@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] LOOKING FOR GEKKO
Date: March 31, 2003 at 6:23:42 AM EST
To: IBOGAINE@MINDVOX.COM
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear SirS,
| I would like to ask your help about finding the gentleman called Gekko. He
| provided indra extract for me two times in the past. I managed to stay
| clean for almost 5 months with his INDRA extract but my doctor put me back
| on methadone detox last week because I relapsed. I would like to buy
| ibogain asd soon as possible to free myself from craveing. This has been
| the most effective substance in ten years of addiction and now I am
| desperate that I cannot find this danish indra company any more on the net.
| I live in Hungary and was able to afford to buy his extract and he sent it
| to me without any problems. Obviously any other solution for buying iboga I
| am interested in. Or probabaly treatment possibilities. Please help me to
| get rid off methadone.
| Yours truly CSABA HERCZEG
| p.s.: My doctor is supporting me since he saw the result for 5 months.
iF I FIND YOU GEKKO GIVE ME A PRICE FOR 10,15,20 GRAMMS OF INDRA AS A RETURNING CUSTUMOR
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Discover ibogaine
Date: March 30, 2003 at 7:39:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
An article was just published in Discover magazine.
The Biology of… Addiction
“The End of Craving”
by Michael Abrams
Discover
May 2003
I haven’t seen it so anyone that can copy the list, all the better.
Howard
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 30, 2003 at 3:23:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
anyone relate?
Dude,
I can soooo relate. I suffered similar injustices and predjudices at my clinic,
thank god for a very cool counselor who went to bat for me… but if the
bull-dog assistant administrator had her way, i’d have been fucked. no take
homes. forced group counseling. multiple urine tests every month (the law was 1
random test/month). accusations of drug dealing on clinic property. the list
goes on.
anyone here ever have to barf in a plastic bag, stand in a line of 38 people
shivering and sweating uncontrollably to hand the bile bag over to a dosing
nurse to prove you just threw up your dose? and then be asked to step aside
while they make a decision to dose you again or not? and Medical Marijuana WAS
the only thing that helped with my chronic nausea. Thank God for THAT.
~ranting down memory lane…
-Gamma
ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:53:40 -0500
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
i don’t get this, but anyone who has been to europe or canada would neveeeer
say that ameriKKKa (and this is an accurate character spelling; i am one of
the few upper middle class whites in my clinic; addiction doesn’t
discriminate but society points certain people to it) who has been chained to
methadone for years, unable to even get take homes because i smoke pot,
meanwhile, earl the resneck drinks a case of bud nightly, beats his wife, but
keeps his job as a plumber and gets 16 take homes.I pull down a 4.0 in collge
at UNC Chapel Hill, and I still have to stand in line for 2 hours in the
am…..But how can I be well withiout being violently, teriibly ill in a
matter of days? Especially without pot to calm my already naturally nauseous
stomach? HOW DOES IT WORK? I want an answer from a user and a doctor.
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 30, 2003 at 10:53:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 3/30/03 10:35:44 AM, Tbgelfling@aol.com writes:
i don’t get this, but anyone who has been to europe or canada would neveeeer
say that ameriKKKa (and this is an accurate character spelling; i am one
of the few upper middle class whites in my clinic; addiction doesn’t
discriminate
but society points certain people to it) who has been chained to methadone
for years, unable to even get take homes because i smoke pot, meanwhile,
earl the resneck drinks a case of bud nightly, beats his wife, but keeps
his job as a plumber and gets 16 take homes.I pull down a 4.0 in collge
at UNC Chapel Hill, and I still have to stand in line for 2 hours in the
am…..But how can I be well withiout being violently, teriibly ill in
a matter of days? Especially without pot to calm my already naturally
nauseous
stomach? HOW DOES IT WORK? I want an answer from a user and a doctor.
The answer relates to stigma and prejudice. I will be presenting on exactly
these matters during my discussion of ibogaine and methadone at the American
Association of Opiate Treatment Providers conference in Washington, DC in
April. I am now working on a presentation brochure and will make my own work
and well as many of the citations in this field available in mid April to
this list.
At this time let me suggest you visit Herman Joseph’s excellent paper,
“Medical Methadone Maintenance: The Further Concealment of a Stigmatized
Condition.”
<http://doraweiner.org/stigma.html>. Sorry there is such abuse of methadone
patients at this time.
Howard
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 30, 2003 at 10:34:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
anyone relate?
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 1, 2003 at 8:53:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
i don’t get this, but anyone who has been to europe or canada would neveeeer say that ameriKKKa (and this is an accurate character spelling; i am one of the few upper middle class whites in my clinic; addiction doesn’t discriminate but society points certain people to it) who has been chained to methadone for years, unable to even get take homes because i smoke pot, meanwhile, earl the resneck drinks a case of bud nightly, beats his wife, but keeps his job as a plumber and gets 16 take homes.I pull down a 4.0 in collge at UNC Chapel Hill, and I still have to stand in line for 2 hours in the am…..But how can I be well withiout being violently, teriibly ill in a matter of days? Especially without pot to calm my already naturally nauseous stomach? HOW DOES IT WORK? I want an answer from a user and a doctor.
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Shut your mouth
Date: March 30, 2003 at 10:32:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Our reaction to terror/Islam seems to be creating a new McCarthy-ism (look, I am only 25; I wasn’t alive for McCarthy, so gimme a break if i spell it wrong…
“some things, magic things, are meant to stay whole. if you look at the pieces, they go away”-my mom
From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
Date: March 30, 2003 at 8:49:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The war isn’t over, Action must go on! I’m with you .
Sara
—–Original Message—–
From: ccadden [mailto:elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: zondag 30 maart 2003 11:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
Thursday March 27, 7:00 A.M. Onward, NO Business As Usual! Stop The
City
If They Don’t Stop The War! Decentralized autonomous direct action
I’m all for it, but hasn’t March 27 come and gone? If they do it this
week,
I’ll send a power vibe their way. Couldn’t hurt.
chris
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
Date: March 30, 2003 at 4:09:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thursday March 27, 7:00 A.M. Onward, NO Business As Usual! Stop The City
If They Don’t Stop The War! Decentralized autonomous direct action
I’m all for it, but hasn’t March 27 come and gone? If they do it this week,
I’ll send a power vibe their way. Couldn’t hurt.
chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 5:06 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
NYC Shutting down due to bombings in Iraq ,
People in New York are organizing mass autonomous direct action on
Thursday and need lots of help!
Thursday March 27, 7:00 A.M. Onward, NO Business As Usual! Stop The City
If They Don’t Stop The War! Decentralized autonomous direct action
throughout the city will stop rush hour traffic. Classrooms will sit
empty and employees will NOT be at their desks. Roving street blockades
and civil disobedience will fill the intersections. Marching together
hasn’t stopped the war so now let’s swarm throughout the city in smaller
groups and greater numbers. Those who oppose the war will join with
others and stand up for justice.
This action will be the culmination of consensus meetings in which many
groups were represented including:
United for Peace and Justice
No Blood for Oil
Not In Our Name
NYC Anarchists
ACT UP NYC
RCP Youth Brigade
The Brooklyn Greens
Loud Brooklyn Dykes
Brooklyn Parents for Peace
Hunter College Student Liberation Action Movement
Reclaim the Streets
The Pink Bloc
Shift Control
Black Cross
Medical Activists of New York
Not In Our Name Youth
Wetlands Activism Center
Williamsburg Peace Coalition
Industrial Workers of the World New York City Branch
and others
see the tactics that worked in San Francisco
Form an affinity group of 15-30 people. Block an intersection. When the
cops come to make you move, move swiftly to another intersection.
————————————————————————
——–
Advice
by Tapeworm ( Tue Mar 25 18:06:07 PST 2003 )
Dont piss of the working class, piss off the rich. You dont want to make
the day harder for the “average joe”, they have enough trouble surviving
in this system. Shut down the capitalist, because if you piss off the
working class its really counter-productive. Anyone have anything to add
on what I said?
————————————————————————
——–
Good
by Neoperversity ( Tue Mar 25 22:50:54 PST 2003 )
They are not hurting the working class by doing this at 7 am in the
morning…if they were to do it in the evening…THEN they would be
hurting the working class. In the morning you are stopping people from
going to work…and if you do it in the evening…you are stopping the
working class from going home (after a hard days work…I don’t think
the’ll wanna come out and protest…just go home) so great job on
planning it at 7 am!
————————————————————————
——–
by Anything ( Wed Mar 26 01:18:17 PST 2003 )
Working class or not, who cares. If you drive a car, you suffer the
consequence. You KNOW your machine is destroying the planet, you KNOW
you have alternatives, you KNOW it’s a scam that just isn’t following
new fuel systems because they want money for their oil. Fuck the working
class. If they want to get ethical: Quit, leave home, squat buildings.
Otherwise they will simply stay the “working class” because that’s where
the government stranglehold is. If it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t have
any of these problems. They’re the ones causing it. The richie-bitches
are just the ones that eat off their backs. They wouldn’t matter if you
weren’t stupid enough to work for them.
Fuck Nationalism!
by ya basta! ( Wed Mar 26 15:04:04 PST 2003 )
First of all, the reason for 7am is because that is rush hour. If we
were going to block the working-class heroes from getting to work, we
would be protesting in the subway or other public transportation (busses
are easy to get off and walk to a subway). That is also why the protest
is starting in Rockefeller Center, home to every single
corporation/media office you can imagine. Guess what, 16 people just
blocked the way of hundreds of new york city drivers today… for over
an hour! And if you really loved this fucking country, you would be
trying to change it for the better, or even for the original because
this system has gone so far from what our forefathers had in mind. And
all you pro-america, pro-bush, “pro-war” ignorant assholes who are
making fun of the French because they tell the truth, think about this.
Where did Jefferson, Franklin, and others go to study and perfect their
ideals on society? It is not as simple as “love it or leave it” and
frankly, that fucking shit pisses me off. We believe all countries are
equal. All people are equal. And if any other country had this much
unopposed power, they would probably be just as bad and maybe even worse
than the US. We would be protesting them too. And no one is denying that
saddam is a human rights violator and an ex-whore to the pimps of the
Reagan/Bush administration. Abolish all forms of concentrated power and
dictators like saddam and bush would not be here in the first place.
There, problem solved. No leaders, no nations, no greedy corporations.
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: vrijdag 28 maart 2003 20:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
After a long and tiring day of work I return home to relax.
Turning on the television, I switch to CNN for their version of the war.
I am greeted by Coalition Victories, everything is going as planned.
And the rotating banners with phrases of confidence spoken by George W.
Bush.
Segue into a picture essay: “What war is” or some such title.
Narrated by one of those smooth voices from 60 minutes.
Pictures of smiling soldiers in a bunker.
Picture of a soldier resting, reading a book.
Soldiers carrying wounded civilians, everyone smiling.
Soldiers smiling, surrounded by smiling Iraqi Children.
A smiling soldier, tending to an unsmiling commrad.
ONE picture of an upset Iraqi man.
95% No Frowns. No Anguish. No Carnage. No Death. No Reality.
Segue to a woman reporter lodged in Kuwait, her name is irrelevant.
She looks like a super model.
She smiles and stares deeply into the camera lens. This is her 15
minutes of
fame.
She holds a bird cage; parakeets in a coal mine, first warning sign of
chemical
attack.
They are well taken care of, she says.
She is an animal lover, she says.
They are named after Saddam’s sons, Uday and Qusay she jokes.
After all, we must have a sense of humor in times like this, she says.
This is the official voice of the Bush Regime. Painting smiling pictures
and
jokes of war.
I don’t think the dead civilians are smiling right now. Or the loved
ones they
left behind.
I don’t think the Iraqi people are making jokes right now.
Like the child with his brains blown out, his head flesh rumpled like a
dirty
towel.
Or the woman and her children that were incinerated as a missile
descended upon
them in the ghettos of Baghdad.
Or the children grimacing in pain from makeshift hospital beds.
The first American soldiers captured by Iraq weren’t smiling either.
I’m sure the list is quite extensive but we are not being told the
truth.
The only smiles I see are the grinning skulls of death hurled down
anonymously
from above.
Hurled down in the name of Freedom and Democracy and our once good
nation, the
United States of America.
But now we are officially, completely and irreversibly tainted, as our
criminal
executive and military branches reach out to secure the middle east
economy
with the goal of dominating the world.
~Dave Hunter 3.28.03
addendum: Smiling Faces Tell Lies.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
Date: March 30, 2003 at 5:06:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
NYC Shutting down due to bombings in Iraq ,
People in New York are organizing mass autonomous direct action on
Thursday and need lots of help!
Thursday March 27, 7:00 A.M. Onward, NO Business As Usual! Stop The City
If They Don’t Stop The War! Decentralized autonomous direct action
throughout the city will stop rush hour traffic. Classrooms will sit
empty and employees will NOT be at their desks. Roving street blockades
and civil disobedience will fill the intersections. Marching together
hasn’t stopped the war so now let’s swarm throughout the city in smaller
groups and greater numbers. Those who oppose the war will join with
others and stand up for justice.
This action will be the culmination of consensus meetings in which many
groups were represented including:
United for Peace and Justice
No Blood for Oil
Not In Our Name
NYC Anarchists
ACT UP NYC
RCP Youth Brigade
The Brooklyn Greens
Loud Brooklyn Dykes
Brooklyn Parents for Peace
Hunter College Student Liberation Action Movement
Reclaim the Streets
The Pink Bloc
Shift Control
Black Cross
Medical Activists of New York
Not In Our Name Youth
Wetlands Activism Center
Williamsburg Peace Coalition
Industrial Workers of the World New York City Branch
and others
see the tactics that worked in San Francisco
Form an affinity group of 15-30 people. Block an intersection. When the
cops come to make you move, move swiftly to another intersection.
————————————————————————
——–
Advice
by Tapeworm ( Tue Mar 25 18:06:07 PST 2003 )
Dont piss of the working class, piss off the rich. You dont want to make
the day harder for the “average joe”, they have enough trouble surviving
in this system. Shut down the capitalist, because if you piss off the
working class its really counter-productive. Anyone have anything to add
on what I said?
————————————————————————
——–
Good
by Neoperversity ( Tue Mar 25 22:50:54 PST 2003 )
They are not hurting the working class by doing this at 7 am in the
morning…if they were to do it in the evening…THEN they would be
hurting the working class. In the morning you are stopping people from
going to work…and if you do it in the evening…you are stopping the
working class from going home (after a hard days work…I don’t think
the’ll wanna come out and protest…just go home) so great job on
planning it at 7 am!
————————————————————————
——–
by Anything ( Wed Mar 26 01:18:17 PST 2003 )
Working class or not, who cares. If you drive a car, you suffer the
consequence. You KNOW your machine is destroying the planet, you KNOW
you have alternatives, you KNOW it’s a scam that just isn’t following
new fuel systems because they want money for their oil. Fuck the working
class. If they want to get ethical: Quit, leave home, squat buildings.
Otherwise they will simply stay the “working class” because that’s where
the government stranglehold is. If it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t have
any of these problems. They’re the ones causing it. The richie-bitches
are just the ones that eat off their backs. They wouldn’t matter if you
weren’t stupid enough to work for them.
Fuck Nationalism!
by ya basta! ( Wed Mar 26 15:04:04 PST 2003 )
First of all, the reason for 7am is because that is rush hour. If we
were going to block the working-class heroes from getting to work, we
would be protesting in the subway or other public transportation (busses
are easy to get off and walk to a subway). That is also why the protest
is starting in Rockefeller Center, home to every single
corporation/media office you can imagine. Guess what, 16 people just
blocked the way of hundreds of new york city drivers today… for over
an hour! And if you really loved this fucking country, you would be
trying to change it for the better, or even for the original because
this system has gone so far from what our forefathers had in mind. And
all you pro-america, pro-bush, “pro-war” ignorant assholes who are
making fun of the French because they tell the truth, think about this.
Where did Jefferson, Franklin, and others go to study and perfect their
ideals on society? It is not as simple as “love it or leave it” and
frankly, that fucking shit pisses me off. We believe all countries are
equal. All people are equal. And if any other country had this much
unopposed power, they would probably be just as bad and maybe even worse
than the US. We would be protesting them too. And no one is denying that
saddam is a human rights violator and an ex-whore to the pimps of the
Reagan/Bush administration. Abolish all forms of concentrated power and
dictators like saddam and bush would not be here in the first place.
There, problem solved. No leaders, no nations, no greedy corporations.
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: vrijdag 28 maart 2003 20:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
After a long and tiring day of work I return home to relax.
Turning on the television, I switch to CNN for their version of the war.
I am greeted by Coalition Victories, everything is going as planned.
And the rotating banners with phrases of confidence spoken by George W.
Bush.
Segue into a picture essay: “What war is” or some such title.
Narrated by one of those smooth voices from 60 minutes.
Pictures of smiling soldiers in a bunker.
Picture of a soldier resting, reading a book.
Soldiers carrying wounded civilians, everyone smiling.
Soldiers smiling, surrounded by smiling Iraqi Children.
A smiling soldier, tending to an unsmiling commrad.
ONE picture of an upset Iraqi man.
95% No Frowns. No Anguish. No Carnage. No Death. No Reality.
Segue to a woman reporter lodged in Kuwait, her name is irrelevant.
She looks like a super model.
She smiles and stares deeply into the camera lens. This is her 15
minutes of
fame.
She holds a bird cage; parakeets in a coal mine, first warning sign of
chemical
attack.
They are well taken care of, she says.
She is an animal lover, she says.
They are named after Saddam’s sons, Uday and Qusay she jokes.
After all, we must have a sense of humor in times like this, she says.
This is the official voice of the Bush Regime. Painting smiling pictures
and
jokes of war.
I don’t think the dead civilians are smiling right now. Or the loved
ones they
left behind.
I don’t think the Iraqi people are making jokes right now.
Like the child with his brains blown out, his head flesh rumpled like a
dirty
towel.
Or the woman and her children that were incinerated as a missile
descended upon
them in the ghettos of Baghdad.
Or the children grimacing in pain from makeshift hospital beds.
The first American soldiers captured by Iraq weren’t smiling either.
I’m sure the list is quite extensive but we are not being told the
truth.
The only smiles I see are the grinning skulls of death hurled down
anonymously
from above.
Hurled down in the name of Freedom and Democracy and our once good
nation, the
United States of America.
But now we are officially, completely and irreversibly tainted, as our
criminal
executive and military branches reach out to secure the middle east
economy
with the goal of dominating the world.
~Dave Hunter 3.28.03
addendum: Smiling Faces Tell Lies.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mindvox behind the scenes???
Date: March 28, 2003 at 5:59:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I really like the psychedelic chaos symbol. But this is a nice change
for the welcome screen for all of Mindvox.
Patrick, Bruce? Having a lot of fighting behind the scenes with
everybody else? 😉
Funny shit 🙂
http://www.mindvox.com
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [digital@phantom.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:05 PM
To: bruce@iterative.com
Subject: DuoCash on Ebay:
For Sale: One Anonymous Porno Billing Company (Nearly Bankrupt).
Package Includes: Fully operational web site and media kit:
http://www.duocash.com
Several fully psychotic investors on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
One slightly-used CEO (Still in original container).
CEO comes with an assortment of neuroses, personality disorders, and
addictive behaviors. Plus, also, not to forget: a mountain of
commercial kitchen equipment, an assortment of guns, and a variety of
unpaid-for cars.
Special Offer! If you ACT NOW, package includes an autographed copy of:
Breaking the Chains, a Modern Day Prometheus: The Victor Nappe Story by
Blain Strickel
Gangsta Vic’s Original OG Experience, “rollin’ wid’ four Rolexes on
each arm, yo.”
Chapters include:
Credit Limits: an Islamic Conspiracy to disrupt the American way of
Life.
Parking Secrets: How to keep the bad people from repo’ing your rides.
The Importance of assigning blame. Pathological Liars are made, not
born; do your homework.
Purchase Orders: Just like Printing Cash!
Bridging the Gulf between your lifestyle and Company Expenses. You
Deserve a Corvette, Porsche, and a Humvee, all in the first week.
Investors: Who the hell are these people anyway, are they retarded or
something?
Felonies and Criminal Charges: Say what?
Epilogue: Jumping Ship before it sinks.
With an Inspirational Afterward by the Reverend Arnold Hesnod: God
loves you and wants you to be extremely wealthy, because you’re an
American.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] mindvox kind of movies
Date: March 28, 2003 at 5:01:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
These were all too weird for me so here they are for you.
http://www.4boredom.com/movies/
Make your selection when you get to the site.
Go at your own responsibility.
Howard
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Smiling Faces of WAR
Date: March 28, 2003 at 2:20:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
After a long and tiring day of work I return home to relax.
Turning on the television, I switch to CNN for their version of the war.
I am greeted by Coalition Victories, everything is going as planned.
And the rotating banners with phrases of confidence spoken by George W. Bush.
Segue into a picture essay: “What war is” or some such title.
Narrated by one of those smooth voices from 60 minutes.
Pictures of smiling soldiers in a bunker.
Picture of a soldier resting, reading a book.
Soldiers carrying wounded civilians, everyone smiling.
Soldiers smiling, surrounded by smiling Iraqi Children.
A smiling soldier, tending to an unsmiling commrad.
ONE picture of an upset Iraqi man.
95% No Frowns. No Anguish. No Carnage. No Death. No Reality.
Segue to a woman reporter lodged in Kuwait, her name is irrelevant.
She looks like a super model.
She smiles and stares deeply into the camera lens. This is her 15 minutes of
fame.
She holds a bird cage; parakeets in a coal mine, first warning sign of chemical
attack.
They are well taken care of, she says.
She is an animal lover, she says.
They are named after Saddam’s sons, Uday and Qusay she jokes.
After all, we must have a sense of humor in times like this, she says.
This is the official voice of the Bush Regime. Painting smiling pictures and
jokes of war.
I don’t think the dead civilians are smiling right now. Or the loved ones they
left behind.
I don’t think the Iraqi people are making jokes right now.
Like the child with his brains blown out, his head flesh rumpled like a dirty
towel.
Or the woman and her children that were incinerated as a missile descended upon
them in the ghettos of Baghdad.
Or the children grimacing in pain from makeshift hospital beds.
The first American soldiers captured by Iraq weren’t smiling either.
I’m sure the list is quite extensive but we are not being told the truth.
The only smiles I see are the grinning skulls of death hurled down anonymously
from above.
Hurled down in the name of Freedom and Democracy and our once good nation, the
United States of America.
But now we are officially, completely and irreversibly tainted, as our criminal
executive and military branches reach out to secure the middle east economy
with the goal of dominating the world.
~Dave Hunter 3.28.03
addendum: Smiling Faces Tell Lies.
__________________________________________________
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [csabszter@hotmail.com: search for Gekko]
Date: March 28, 2003 at 12:29:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As far as I know, he’s: gekko_lab@hotmail.com
Patrick
From: “herczeg csaba” <csabszter@hotmail.com>
Subject: search for Gekko
Date: March 27, 2003 at 1:08:26 PM EST
To: digital@phantom.com
Dear Sir,
I would like to ask your help about finding the gentleman called Gekko. He provided indra extract for me two times in the past. I managed to stay clean for almost 5 months with his INDRA extract but my doctor put me back on methadone detox last week because I relapsed. I would like to buy ibogain asd soon as possible to free myself from craveing. This has been the most effective substance in ten years of addiction and now I am desperate that I cannot find this danish indra company any more on the net. I live in Hungary and was able to afford to buy his extract and he sent it to me without any problems. Obviously any other solution for buying iboga I am interested in. Or probabaly treatment possibilities. Please help me to get rid off methadone.
Yours truly CSABA HERCZEG
p.s.: My doctor is supporting me since he saw the result for 5 months.
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dosage, nausea advice requested
Date: March 27, 2003 at 2:31:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
metagrrl
BEFORE taking ibogaine you must insure you are in good
health, something like undiagnosed cardiac disease can
cause death when mixed with ibogaine. I suggest a once
over by a doctor (physical) including liver enzymes
and EKG.
I have no personal experience with ethnogarden but 4gm
should do the “trick”. You need to fast for 12 hours
first, take in fluids (ie real fruit juices, water,
nothing fake or with caffine) till about 3 hours
before and you can take in REAL fruit till 4 hours
before in small quantities. Have a qualified sitter,
absolutely nothing to do (no pagers, no TV, no phone
calls, not the kids, nada…) except
R&R/reflection/recouperation… for 2-3 days after.
Have a darkened, comfortable, quiet room ready, there
should be no other activities in the house – getting
away is often a real good idea (no bones in the
attic/distractions…) for some. Sounds and
distractions to your session will be annoying to say
the least, even sounds/smells the dog can’t hear might
bother you for a time. I wouldn’t go into the trip
with any particular issues to bring up, whatever it is
(what you need), typically it will be addressed
anyway. That said, ONCE YOU ARE UP THERE AND
COMFORTABLE with the trip, if there is some place you
want to go/issue to look at (that you want to address)
have at it. If you want to “change the channel”,
blink. Typically that will very instantly (even a
closed eye blink) stop a vision and a new one will
start – your attention span will be non-existant other
than what is in front of you at the moment (a bit of
this can last several days). Worst case you can turn
up the light a bit, open your eyes and all visions
will stop (almost 100 out of 100 times) – in practice,
I doubt you will need to, just that it is nice to know
you can. Give in to the experience, do not fight it
and if there is anxiety, slow deep breathing will help
(some folks use benzo’s, some use a little grass).
What I would do? Take an anti-emetic first, no it will
NOT interfere with the ibo but do not use compazine,
an OTC product like dramamine (I use the original)
will do just fine. I would also (and do) take
everything with ginger tea, little honey, dash of
lemon or lime (just sips). I also like to take the ibo
at the end of the day (which means eat a lite
breakfast like fruit/oatmeal, I don’t like to fast too
long before doing ibo or be too tired. That said DO
NOT RUSH, like go to work, run to get everything done
before the trip, watch the evening news… real bad
idea IMO. Take your time with it, get comfortable, get
relaxed (ibo by the way is very relaxing in small
amounts. I like half hour-hour or so before the tester
dose to take the anti-emetic, then 4 hours later (or
whatever the instructions for that product say) as
ibogaine will last much longer than any anti-emetic.
Some people who move around when the tester dose is
taken can get sick from that small amount IF they
agitate and move around, if you take an anti-emetic
first OR stay still getting sick from the tester is
much less likely. I strongly suggest staying quiet, if
you get up and agitate, have your sitter remind you to
lie down and relax (I like meditation/relaxation
music). Taking ibo towards the evening will produce
better “visions”, a ballpark starting time this time
of year (for me) would be about 4:00 for the tester
dose, couple hours the main dose. Sometimes I will
take a tester, relax into it, double that an hour or
so later and then do the main dose. There is nothing
written in stone as to exactly how much or how long to
wait, ballpark would be a couple hundred mg’s of
ethnogarden, wait at least an hour before taking main
dose though I would wait longer. Then take the main
dose. Now, STAY STILL, if you move you will very
likely barf up your dose – options are to save it and
swallow it again or start all over… Note, ibogaine
is some rather nasty stuff, far worse than the actual
taste – meaning the more it “hits” you the nastier it
is. Another option to taking orally is rectally, if it
works for ya, have at it (roll it up in rice paper and
stick it…, far as you can…), this way you can’t
barf it up and nausea will be reduced though not
eliminated as ibogaine causes a motion type sickness,
not just from nasty stuff in your tummy. Anyways the
trip goes a bit like this (though you are unique, so
is every single trip you will ever do on ibogaine,
even if it is a thousand of them, they are all
different). Take a tester, you will feel it, usually
either sleepy or brightened, sometimes sensitive
people will have some visions. IF the tester dose of
200mg hits you like a ton of bricks (it should not),
ABORT or cut your main dose in 1/2 and go from there –
IMO. I would also advise getting the phone # of a
someone experienced with ibogaine administration, by
far usually nothing is to worry about and everything
is fine but it is nice to be able to make a phone
call.
After the main dose it will take under 2 hours to
fully hit, some period of anxiety on the way up is
common (deep breath), it will pass. Note ibogaine can
hit in 20 minutes, an hour and 20 or anywhere
in-between, I have no idea how long – even if you did
it 1000 times you wouldn’t know, so it is with
everything ibogaine related (pretty much), ya never
know. You may leave your body (remember to come
back… that is not a joke), see your childhood, have
long forgotten memories, come to understandings and
resolutions, maybe some emotional releases… maybe
little/nothing, or so it may seem, it is all quite
normal. You may have various side effects that can go
on for several days or even much longer, this is very
normal and will pass. YOu will be quite “ROCKED” for a
day to several days (typically) though it can be
longer. The trip itself from that dose, can’t exactly
say but the bulk of it will likely be done within 12
hours – though again, it will take several days to
shake it off. In a day, 2, 3… after the glow may set
in, some people don’t have it, some people get
somewhat depressed for a time, sometimes SHIT bubbles
up… you will find out when you get there BUT it all
generally works out for the better good and people
gain from the experience.
One “alternative” which may work for ya is to just try
a couple hundred mg’s first (yes you can up and go
from there if you are comfortable with it) or even
much less. Vivian had her first experience with 15mg
of HCL, had a quick window open for a few seconds, get
a realization and the window closed… hummm, she did
more another time. Reducing your main experience to
3.8gm from 4.0gm (by taking 200mg) shouldn’t make
enough difference for it to matter and get you
aquainted with ibo. You can do this amount on an empty
stomach, say 4 hours after a light meal and a few
hours after you will be just fine, that is if you even
noticed and didn’t go to sleep. OR, if you like just
do the main dose and save a few hundred mg’s, if
during your first session you want more you can always
do that or save it for another time. Even a small
amount of ibogaine can be a nice reminder/refresher,
especially once you have done a full dose. Just some
options other than the generic FULL dose that most
people have, there are many other uses for ibogaine
than just ibogaine “sessions”.
So, yes 4gm of ethnogarden should be enough.
Rectally is an option.
Saving your (from a fasting stomach should be quite
clean) vomit and swallowing it (if you puke) can be
done. If you vomit 3+ hours after you should have
absorbed most if it that I wouldn’t worry – so that is
the period of time you really don’t want to get up and
go pee for instance. Stay still for the first 3 hours
to reduce the chance of losing your dose.
Ginger tea and anti-emetics will help with
nausea/vomiting BUT mostly it is STAY STILL flat on
your back, DO NOT turn your head side to side or
POP-UP to sit-up… OOPS, forgot, make sure you
PEE/POOP before taking ibogaine so you don’t have to
get-up, also ibogaine seems slightly irritating, once
you start peeing, there is an amount of urgency to
piss – and get-up to do so. Also, a nice hot bath
before the journey (shower a 2nd) is helpful.
No, an anti-emetic will not interfere with the trip,
compazine will interfere however and should not be
taken. Also, do not take any medications along with
ibo unless you have checked them out first, a lite
benzo or anti-emetic is OK but something as simple as
tylenol will have an effect on ibogaine.
FWIW, I also take tryptophan and dl-phenylalanine, it
seems to reduce recovery time and improve mood post
ibogaine. Also, eat after (next morning), start slow,
easy stuff, fruit, oatmeal, chicken soup… slowly at
first, it will help you recover faster (sometimes a
t-spoon at a time for starters).
Good luck, say HI to the Bwiti for me.
Brett
— ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi
I’m planning to take four grams of the ethngarden
extract on easter weekend. I am a 95 kg (approx 200
lbs) male, with no major addiction (besides
caffiene).
I am taking iboga in hopes of resolving a trauma
from
two years ago, and some childhood trauma as well.
In
addition, I’m hoping to have a spiritual experience.
My first question is, does anybody know if 4 grams
of
the ethnogarden extract would be likely to lead to a
full-blown iboga experience? I previously ingested
about 20 grams of iboga root bark powder mixed with
milk, and had little or no effect. In that case I
threw up much of it after it had been in my system
for
a couple of hours; the liquid looked about the same
going out as coming in, so I may not have absorbed
much. According to my estimates, 4 grams of
ethnogarden extract should equal about 1 gram of
ibogaine. From my previous experience I’m not sure
if
I’m unusually resistent to it.
My second question concerns nausea: 4 grams is about
all I can (barely) afford in the near future, and so
I
reall do not want to throw it up! Any advice on
this? Some reports I’ve read mention taking OTC
anti-nausea meds before and during the trip, so I
may
try that – but I’m concerned about the possibility
that such meds may interfere with the iboga trip
itself. Does anyone have any advice on this?
Thanks for any information or advice anyone can
provide. 🙂
-metagrrl
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness,
live on your desktop!
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__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dosage, nausea advice requested
Date: March 27, 2003 at 1:24:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
metagrrl
BEFORE taking ibogaine you must insure you are in good
health, something like undiagnosed cardiac disease can
cause death when mixed with ibogaine. I suggest a once
over by a doctor (physical) including liver enzymes
and EKG.
I have no personal experience with ethnogarden but 4gm
should do the “trick”. You need to fast for 12 hours
first, take in fluids (ie real fruit juices, water,
nothing fake or with caffine) till about 3 hours
before and you can take in REAL fruit till 4 hours
before in small quantities. Have a qualified sitter,
absolutely nothing to do (no pagers, no TV, no phone
calls, not the kids, nada…) except
R&R/reflection/recouperation… for 2-3 days after.
Have a darkened, comfortable, quiet room ready, there
should be no other activities in the house – getting
away is often a real good idea (no bones in the
attic/distractions…) for some. Sounds and
distractions to your session will be annoying to say
the least, even sounds/smells the dog can’t hear might
bother you for a time. I wouldn’t go into the trip
with any particular issues to bring up, whatever it is
(what you need), typically it will be addressed
anyway. That said, ONCE YOU ARE UP THERE AND
COMFORTABLE with the trip, if there is some place you
want to go/issue to look at (that you want to address)
have at it. If you want to “change the channel”,
blink. Typically that will very instantly (even a
closed eye blink) stop a vision and a new one will
start – your attention span will be non-existant other
than what is in front of you at the moment (a bit of
this can last several days). Worst case you can turn
up the light a bit, open your eyes and all visions
will stop (almost 100 out of 100 times) – in practice,
I doubt you will need to, just that it is nice to know
you can. Give in to the experience, do not fight it
and if there is anxiety, slow deep breathing will help
(some folks use benzo’s, some use a little grass).
What I would do? Take an anti-emetic first, no it will
NOT interfere with the ibo but do not use compazine,
an OTC product like dramamine (I use the original)
will do just fine. I would also (and do) take
everything with ginger tea, little honey, dash of
lemon or lime (just sips). I also like to take the ibo
at the end of the day (which means eat a lite
breakfast like fruit/oatmeal, I don’t like to fast too
long before doing ibo or be too tired. That said DO
NOT RUSH, like go to work, run to get everything done
before the trip, watch the evening news… real bad
idea IMO. Take your time with it, get comfortable, get
relaxed (ibo by the way is very relaxing in small
amounts. I like half hour-hour or so before the tester
dose to take the anti-emetic, then 4 hours later (or
whatever the instructions for that product say) as
ibogaine will last much longer than any anti-emetic.
Some people who move around when the tester dose is
taken can get sick from that small amount IF they
agitate and move around, if you take an anti-emetic
first OR stay still getting sick from the tester is
much less likely. I strongly suggest staying quiet, if
you get up and agitate, have your sitter remind you to
lie down and relax (I like meditation/relaxation
music). Taking ibo towards the evening will produce
better “visions”, a ballpark starting time this time
of year (for me) would be about 4:00 for the tester
dose, couple hours the main dose. Sometimes I will
take a tester, relax into it, double that an hour or
so later and then do the main dose. There is nothing
written in stone as to exactly how much or how long to
wait, ballpark would be a couple hundred mg’s of
ethnogarden, wait at least an hour before taking main
dose though I would wait longer. Then take the main
dose. Now, STAY STILL, if you move you will very
likely barf up your dose – optios are to save it and
swallow it again or start all over… Note, ibogaine
is some rather nasty stuff, far worse than the actual
taste – meaning the more it hits you the nastier it
is. Another option to taking orally is rectally, some
— ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi
I’m planning to take four grams of the ethngarden
extract on easter weekend. I am a 95 kg (approx 200
lbs) male, with no major addiction (besides
caffiene).
I am taking iboga in hopes of resolving a trauma
from
two years ago, and some childhood trauma as well.
In
addition, I’m hoping to have a spiritual experience.
My first question is, does anybody know if 4 grams
of
the ethnogarden extract would be likely to lead to a
full-blown iboga experience? I previously ingested
about 20 grams of iboga root bark powder mixed with
milk, and had little or no effect. In that case I
threw up much of it after it had been in my system
for
a couple of hours; the liquid looked about the same
going out as coming in, so I may not have absorbed
much. According to my estimates, 4 grams of
ethnogarden extract should equal about 1 gram of
ibogaine. From my previous experience I’m not sure
if
I’m unusually resistent to it.
My second question concerns nausea: 4 grams is about
all I can (barely) afford in the near future, and so
I
reall do not want to throw it up! Any advice on
this? Some reports I’ve read mention taking OTC
anti-nausea meds before and during the trip, so I
may
try that – but I’m concerned about the possibility
that such meds may interfere with the iboga trip
itself. Does anyone have any advice on this?
Thanks for any information or advice anyone can
provide. 🙂
-metagrrl
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness,
live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iraq war architect in Global Crossing conflict of interest
Date: March 27, 2003 at 5:01:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Telecom in itself has a lot to answer for. They bought the main telephone
network in NZ and operate on a monopoly basis. Personally I don’t have any
time for them at all and am subscribed to a smaller national company for my
toll and cell phone calls but as far as rental and line maintenance and
basic charges go we have no other choice other than telecom so far. It
doesn’t seem to matter which way you go or what you want these huge
comgomerates still get their own way in the end.
Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:25 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Iraq war architect in Global Crossing conflict of
interest
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29889.html
Iraq war architect in Global Crossing conflict of interest
By Thomas C Greene in Washington
Posted: 24/03/2003 at 10:04 GMT
Among the neo-conservatives advising US President George W. Bush on
matters military and imperial, Richard Perle looms large as Chairman of
the Defense Policy Board, an unpaid policy brain trust appointed by
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Perle, a former
Reagan-Administration Assistant Defense Secretary, is associated,
through numerous radiating lines of Washington patronage, to a gaggle
of Reaganite and Bush Senior re-treads moving and shaking in Washington
today.
These include members of neo-imperialist organizations like the
American Enterprise Institute and Project for the New American Century,
which bring together such ambitious America-uber-alles luminaries as
Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz and Bill Kristol. They
urge military policies engineered to make the Middle East US-friendly
by force, and have been instrumental in inducing Bush Junior to serve
up Saddam Hussein as a convenient scapegoat for the maddeningly elusive
Osama bin Laden.
“Saddam Hussein is at the very core of the war against terrorism. There
can be no victory in the war against terrorism if, at the end of it,
Saddam Hussein is still in power…because he is the symbol of defiance
of all Western values,” Perle asserted during an interview a scant four
weeks after the 9/11 atrocity.
So what’s this got to do with the technology industry? Nothing, one
would hope; but unfortunately, financially-dessicated telecoms outfit
and former giant Global Crossing is looking to get bought by
bargain-hungry foreigners, and the Department of Defense deems this
rather a poor idea. The US government uses the company’s pipes, so its
sale to Hutchison Whampoa, owned by a Hong Kong business tycoon, and
Singapore Telemedia, a phone company owned by the local government,
raises rather obvious national-security difficulties and doubts.
Thus Perle has been retained by Global Crossing to work his persuasive
magic with stubborn DoD skeptics. He’s being paid US $725,000 for his
lobbying efforts if they succeed, a mighty sum when one considers the
company’s slide from a $4 billion behemoth to a $400 million pipsqueak
with gargantuan debts. The regulatory organ Perle has been hired to
‘persuade’ is called CFIUS (Committee on Foreign Investment in the US),
and it has the legal power to block the sale. The problem is that Perle
appears to have been assigned the task of using his position with the
Defense Policy Board to benefit a private client, something frowned
upon in Washington. Because $600,000 of Perle’s anticipated reward is
contingent on the sale going through, it’s hard to deny that he’s
motivated to bend perceptions on his client’s behalf.
“As the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, I have…intimate
knowledge of the national defense and security issues that will be
raised by the CFIUS review process that is not…available to the other
CFIUS professionals,” Perle wrote in an affidavit. Perle told the New
York Times that this extremely suggestive language was inserted due to
a “clerical error”. He said that he had seen it in a draft and had
struck it out. He later said that after striking it out, it
mysteriously re-appeared in the final copy, which he signed without
noticing the error.
He rejects any notion that there could be influence peddling going on.
“I’m not using public office for private gain because the Defense
Policy Board has nothing to do with the CFIUS process,” the NYT quotes
him as saying. And of course that’s strictly correct; but he has
something to do with it, and his position with DPB is a major reason
why he’s been chosen. We might question the wisdom of a high-level
defense advisor who sees nothing wrong with selling a network used by
Uncle Sam to the Chinese, and wonder if his advice on re-structuring
the Middle East is of any better quality.
Perle has also been in the news recently for other reasons. Displeased
by a piece on him in the New Yorker by veteran journalist Seymour
Hersh, Perle moderately told CNN: “Look, Sy Hersh is the closest thing
American journalism has to a terrorist, frankly.” Then for good measure
followed it up by telling the New York Sun that the New Yorker piece
was ” all lies, from beginning to end,” and that he was launching a
libel action in London. Says the Sun: “He said he is suing in Britain
because it is easier to win such cases there, where the burden on
plaintiffs is much less.”
Nice. The Register’s local spotters feel that Perle may have got
slightly the wrong impression about the UK libel process, but
nevertheless look forward to seeing him there in the witness box.
Alongside, we trust, Adnan Khashoggi and a galaxy of stars from recent
and not-so-recent Republican administrations. ®
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dosage, nausea advice requested
Date: March 27, 2003 at 4:12:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
4 grams of ethno garden should produce an experience that requires 48 – 72
hours where you are not scheduled to do anything but lie down.
Take 250 mgs. in a test dose at 0 hour.
In the 12 hours before, do not eat any foods, or coffee, colas.
Have a sitter nearby for the first 24 hours after 0 hour.
at 30 minutes past zero hour, take 100 mg. of Gravol or similar
anti-nauseant
at 60 minutes past zero hour, lie down, take 3,800 mg. of iboga extract with
water
at 150 minutes past zero hour, you will hear buzzing, clicking, or high
pitched whirring, walls become wobbly
at 180 minutes past zero hour, it is coming on hard for the next 4 – 12
hours
— during this period, open all doors, but do not try to control or
‘handle’ the experience. Let the experience (the iboga) guide you. Try to
move only slowly. Be in a room where you can control the light and sound.
Coughing from others can sound like a thunderclap. Talking in the next room
can seem EXTREMELY LOUD. Be sure you have control of the house before you
take the iboga. Once conditions are suitable and you dose yourself,
surrender to the experience. Only hydrate if you throw up in the first 3
hours. Otherwise, the Bwiti discourage more than small amounts of water with
the experience. You will pee a bit during the experience, have a toilet
close at hand, candle lit so you don’t need to turn on bright lights. You’ll
need help walking slowly, you don’t want ataxia, dizziness resulting in
nausea, its very easy for this to happen.
at 12 hours past zero hour, you may feel like walking, but you are more
exhausted than you think. You might even be disappointerd that nothing
comprehensible happened, but it did. You won’t fully understand except over
the days ahead, especially by
72 hours after zero hour, a healthy,smooth flush comes over your face and
your skin. You have a sharper understanding of the experience that now seems
to make more sense. You are now up and around but clearly still affected by
the experience. You should be writing things felt and thought at any time
you can write after hour 12, it will be helpful to pour as much into a diary
as you can, as you are using this for self-analysis.
Any other questions, Terry, Linette, Sandra or I can advise you from our
experience (20 patients, 30+ dosings)
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
P.S. Curtis, Brett, others here are good guys/gals to get practical advice
from also.
—– Original Message —–
From: “ad astra” <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] dosage, nausea advice requested
Hi
I’m planning to take four grams of the ethngarden
extract on easter weekend. I am a 95 kg (approx 200
lbs) male, with no major addiction (besides caffiene).
I am taking iboga in hopes of resolving a trauma from
two years ago, and some childhood trauma as well. In
addition, I’m hoping to have a spiritual experience.
My first question is, does anybody know if 4 grams of
the ethnogarden extract would be likely to lead to a
full-blown iboga experience? I previously ingested
about 20 grams of iboga root bark powder mixed with
milk, and had little or no effect. In that case I
threw up much of it after it had been in my system for
a couple of hours; the liquid looked about the same
going out as coming in, so I may not have absorbed
much. According to my estimates, 4 grams of
ethnogarden extract should equal about 1 gram of
ibogaine. From my previous experience I’m not sure if
I’m unusually resistent to it.
My second question concerns nausea: 4 grams is about
all I can (barely) afford in the near future, and so I
reall do not want to throw it up! Any advice on
this? Some reports I’ve read mention taking OTC
anti-nausea meds before and during the trip, so I may
try that – but I’m concerned about the possibility
that such meds may interfere with the iboga trip
itself. Does anyone have any advice on this?
Thanks for any information or advice anyone can
provide. 🙂
-metagrrl
__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Shut your mouth
Date: March 26, 2003 at 11:24:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
*Subject:* FW: “Shut your mouth”
*In case you missed this excellent and enraging (and scary) salon.com
article. It’s long, though.*
*I especially call your attention to this bit:*
“Last time around, the attorney general announced that he was sending
up
a bill and that he expected Congress to enact it within three days,”
the
ACLU’s Timothy Edgar said of Ashcroft’s post-9/11 push for the first
PATRIOT Act in an interview with Salon. “They ended up taking six
weeks,
but they still didn’t have a single hearing, and members were unable
to
obtain a complete text of the legislation even after they voted on
it.”
*http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/25/liberties/*
“Shut your mouth”
As radio giants censor antiwar musicians, TV networks bully pro-peace
actors, and Attorney General John Ashcroft prepares a new assault on
civil liberties, a climate of intimidation creeps over America.
– – – – – – – – – – – –
*By Tim Grieve *
March 24, 2003 | As the United States marches toward Baghdad and
braces for terrorist reprisals back home, Attorney General John
Ashcroft
may see in America’s orange-alert fears and us-against-them attitude
a
target of opportunity he cannot resist. The man who pushed the USA
PATRIOT Act through a terrified Congress in the days after Sept. 11,
2001, may be planning a new assault on civil liberties in the wake of
the war on Iraq.
In February, the Center for Public Integrity uncovered a confidential
Justice Department draft of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of
2003. The legislation picks up where the PATRIOT Act left off — more
wiretaps and secret searches, government access to credit reports and
other personal records, a database of DNA samples, and provisions
allowing the attorney general to revoke the U.S. citizenship of
anyone
who provides assistance to a group the government considers a
“terrorist” organization.
The draft drew a barrage of criticism from across the political
spectrum. The Lawyers Committee for Human Rights called it a
“Department
of Justice wish list” that would “endanger core civil liberties,”
while
William Safire denounced it as both an “assault” and an
“abomination.”
Although the 120-page draft had the detailed look of a proposal ready
for congressional consideration, the Justice Department quickly
downplayed it as merely the brainstorming of low-level staff. When
pressed about the proposed security measure at a Senate Judiciary
Committee hearing earlier this month, Ashcroft devolved into an odd
exploration of the self-referential passive voice: There was nothing
to
discuss with the Senate, the attorney general said, because “no final
discussion has been made with the attorney general.”
But that was early March — before U.S. armed forces moved into Iraq,
before intelligence officials declared additional terrorist attacks a
“near certainty,” before a recent round of court decisions signaled
increased judicial acceptance of the administration’s war on terror,
and
before a smattering of news reports showed signs that Americans may
be
adopting for themselves the with-us-or-against-us approach the
administration has taken with foreign countries and internal
dissenters
alike.
It is a target-rich environment for Ashcroft now, and civil
libertarians
fear that he may be ready to fire soon. Last week, a remarkable
alliance
of more than 65 advocacy groups — ranging from the American Civil
Liberties Union and the NAACP to the American Conservative Union and
the
Gun Owners of America — took the unusual step of writing to Congress
to
oppose legislation that has not yet been introduced. The theory: If
they
wait until the moment of crisis when Ashcroft unveils what they’re
calling PATRIOT Act II, it will already be too late.
“Last time around, the attorney general announced that he was sending
up
a bill and that he expected Congress to enact it within three days,”
the
ACLU’s Timothy Edgar said of Ashcroft’s post-9/11 push for the first
PATRIOT Act in an interview with Salon. “They ended up taking six
weeks,
but they still didn’t have a single hearing, and members were unable
to
obtain a complete text of the legislation even after they voted on
it.”
Edgar said he hopes the groups’ preemptive strike will put Congress
on
notice of the “broad and deep concern” about PATRIOT II, and that
Congress will have the courage to question the need for the new law
enforcement powers in it. But in the climate of intolerance,
intimidation and fear now swirling around the war on terror, he also
knows that this may be wishful thinking.
The drumbeat began just days after Sept. 11, when George W. Bush told
the nations of the world: “Either you are with us, or you are with
the
terrorists.” It grew louder — and closer to home — when Ari
Fleischer
warned that “all Americans” should “watch what they say,” and then
again
when Attorney General Ashcroft said that those who complained of lost
liberties during the war on terror “aid terrorists” by giving
“ammunition to America’s enemies and pause to America’s friends.”
As Osama bin Laden slipped away and the war on terror slid into the
war
on Iraq, the president began to beat the drum so persistently that it
was hard to hear anything else. He dismissed worldwide antiwar
protests
as something akin to “focus groups,” he refused to acknowledge that
the
leaders of other nations honestly disagreed with him about the best
way
to disarm Iraq, and he signaled contempt for a reporter who asked
about
the costs — both financial and human — of the war he seemed so
determined to fight. As if serving as a poster boy for political
intolerance wasn’t enough, Bush even went so far as to hint that
American citizens might take it upon themselves to punish immigrants
from countries that failed to fall in line with his plan to rid the
world of Saddam Hussein. As Paul Krugman reported in the New York
Times,
when Bush was asked whether the United States would retaliate against
Mexico for failing to support the drive for war, he said that the
U.S.
government probably wouldn’t, then volunteered that there was already
a
“backlash against the French, not stirred up by anyone except the
people.”
In Washington and beyond, the president’s supporters have heard the
drums and begun to dance to the tune. When Senate Minority Leader Tom
Daschle expressed sadness that Bush’s failure to find a diplomatic
solution was finally leading to war, House Speaker Dennis Hastert
said
Daschle had come “mighty close” to giving “comfort” to the enemy.
House
Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, more bluntly told the South
Dakota
Democrat to shut his mouth. “Fermez la bouche, Monsieur Daschle!” he
snapped, equating Daschle’s criticism with France’s efforts to block
a
war resolution in the United Nations. When an attorney named Stephen
Downs wore an antiwar T-shirt to a suburban New York mall, the mall’s
owners had him arrested. And when a 16-year-old kid named Felix
Fanaselle failed to stand when a flag-waving Lee Greenwood song
blasted
over the loudspeakers at a Houston rodeo, he was spat upon, assaulted
and told to “go back to Iraq.” Never mind that Fanaselle is an
American
citizen of Italian and Mexican descent — you’re either with us or
you’re with the terrorists.
That with-us-or-against-us message may be starting to take root in
the
entertainment industry as well. According to Matt Drudge, CBS warned
musicians
<http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2003/02/24/20030224_064624_crow.htm>
not to speak out against the war during the Grammy Awards last month.
Last week, radio and concert giant Clear Channel barred protest
groups
from distributing literature at an Ani DiFranco concert in New Jersey
—
and threatened to pull the plug on DiFranco or anyone else who made
antiwar comments from the stage. Sean Penn has filed suit against
director Steven Bing, claiming that he lost a role for speaking out
against the war. And Martin Sheen, whose real-life politics put him
to
the left of the president he plays on TV, says that NBC executives
have
expressed their discomfort about his public antiwar stand. A story on
the Oscars in the New York Times this week hinted at the possibility
that outspoken war critics may find themselves blacklisted
<http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/24/movies/24SCEN.html> in Hollywood.
Tamara Saviano learned something about that this month. A producer
for
the Great American Country music video channel, Saviano was flipping
through her personal e-mail account at home one night when she came
across a message from Charlie “The Devil Went Down to Georgia”
Daniels.
It was an open letter to Hollywood — all of those “pitiful,
hypocritical, idiotic, spoiled mugwumps” who had raised their voices
against the impending war on Iraq. Echoing the words of the
president,
Daniels argued that “the war against Saddam Hussein is the war on
terrorism,” that America is in “imminent danger,” that “you’re either
for her or against her” and that there is “no middle ground.”
Saviano responded — again, on her private e-mail account — with a
message in which she called Daniels’ screed “anti-American.” Daniels’
publicist complained to GAC, and the next morning Saviano was fired.
“I’m a little too young to remember McCarthyism, but I’ve got the
feeling that it might be happening again,” Saviano told Salon. “I
wonder
where it came from, this idea that anybody who wants to question this
administration or debate things publicly is labeled unpatriotic?”
Steven Shapiro is a spokesman for GAC’s parent company, Jones Media
Networks. Saviano wasn’t fired for expressing her political views, he
said, but rather for suggesting a boycott of Charlie Daniels’ music
and
concerts while failing to make it sufficiently clear that she wasn’t
speaking for GAC.
Jones Media Networks also owns a number of country music radio
stations.
Did on-air personalities at any of those stations join in the
nationwide
calls to boycott the Dixie Chicks
<http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2003/03/18/dixie_chicks/index.html>
after one of the Chicks told a London concert crowd that they were
“ashamed” of President Bush? “That’s a good question,” Shapiro said.
He
said he’d look into it and call back when he knew more. He never did.
It is easy to write off these isolated incidents as blips on the
radar
of war — the misguided patriotism of random rednecks or the
private-citizen equivalents of the House Republicans’ efforts to
obliterate all things French from their gastronomical vocabulary. The
victims survive and get on with their lives. The mall owner
eventually
dropped the charges against Stephen Downs, Felix Fanaselle wasn’t
seriously injured in the rumble at the rodeo, and although Tamara
Saviano figures she’ll always be a “pariah” in Nashville, she’s
already
at work on a new project publishing the written works of American
roots
artists. Someday soon, the world may even be safe for French fries
again.
But what will be lost in the meantime? Will the climate of fear and
intimidation that gives rise to the isolated incidents of intolerance
also pave the way for more widespread and long-lasting limitations on
civil liberties?* *
As war began last week, the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights issued
a
new report on the changes in law and government policy since Sept.
11.
The report, a six-month follow-up to one the committee released on
the
first anniversary of the terrorist attacks, documents the ongoing
erosion of “basic human rights protections in the United States,
including fundamental guarantees central to our constitutional
system.”
Any such report must begin with the USA PATRIOT Act itself, which
Congress adopted and Bush signed less than two months after Sept. 11.
The act handed sweeping new powers to law enforcement, the military
and
U.S. intelligence agencies, and it blurred the traditionally clear
lines
that divided them. Among other things, it granted federal law
enforcement officers broad authority to use wiretaps and other forms
of
electronic surveillance; it expanded the circumstances under which
the
FBI could conduct searches under the forgiving rules of the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Act rather than under the stricter tests of
the Fourth Amendment; and it gave the president the power to
confiscate
property of those believed to be attacking the United States.
Scattered voices of dissent raised concerns that these new powers
might
be abused. A year and a half later, it is hard to know whether the
critics were right. By and large, the Justice Department has refused
to
provide Congress with information about its use of the PATRIOT Act
tools. What is clear, however, is that Justice Department officials
and
FBI agents have dramatically increased their use of secret searches
and
other clandestine techniques since the PATRIOT Act was passed.
The Washington Post reported Monday that Ashcroft has authorized more
than 170 secret searches
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16287-2003Mar23.html>
and/or wiretaps — more than three times the total authorized over
the
past 23 years by all other attorneys general combined. Meanwhile, the
Post reported, FBI field offices have issued scores of so-called
national security letters, a PATRIOT Act tool that requires
businesses
to provide the FBI with information about an individual’s finances,
telephone calls, e-mail messages and the like — all without a
warrant
and all without prior court approval.
**
A few weeks after he signed the PATRIOT Act, Bush took matters a step
further when he signed an executive order requiring that noncitizens
suspected of participating in or supporting acts of terrorism be
detained by the military and tried by military tribunals rather than
in
federal courts. At about the same time, the Justice Department took
the
position that it was entitled to eavesdrop on the conversations
between
inmates and their lawyers in order to protect against future acts of
terrorism.
Of course, not all civil liberties received such cavalier treatment.
Although the PATRIOT Act allows the FBI to obtain records showing
what
books you purchased at the local bookstore or checked out from the
library — a suspect’s reading habits might suggest an unsettling
interest in the architecture of tall buildings — Ashcroft has
insisted
that the FBI cannot review the records of gun-purchase background
checks
in the course of a terror investigation.
As the initial sense of panic cooled in the months after Sept. 11,
federal courts began to stand up against some of the incursions on
the
civil liberties of terror-related suspects. Georgetown University law
professor David Cole initially saw that as a hopeful sign; in an
article
he wrote for the Nation last summer, he suggested that the shock of
9/11
had “given way to a renewed interest for the rule of law.”
It didn’t last. This week, the Supreme Court refused to hear a case
in
which the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the Justice
Department’s use of wiretaps and other forms of surveillance
authorized
by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in domestic criminal
prosecutions.
Earlier this month, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit
held
that more than 600 detainees in U.S. military custody at Guantánamo
Bay
have no right to challenge their confinement in U.S. courts. So long
as
the detainees are noncitizens who were captured outside the United
States during some sort of military operation and are now being held
outside the United States, the courts of the United States “are not
open
to them.” Although the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base where the detainees
are
being held is inarguably controlled by the U.S. military, the court
held
that it was outside the reach of the federal courts because the
United
States merely leases the land from Cuba.
In the open-ended war on terror — with its infinitely flexible
definitions of “enemy” and “field of battle” — the decision puts
incredible power in the hands of the U.S military. Under the ruling,
U.S. Special Forces could secretly kidnap, say, a British editorial
writer who opposes the war on Iraq. And so long as they took him to
someplace like Guantánamo — rather than to a military prison in the
United States itself — they could keep him there forever if they
wished. A U.S. court could do absolutely nothing about it.
Cole finds the decision shocking — and yet not. “If you look at
history,” he says, “courts in times of crisis defer to the
executive.”
Although Cole says such wartime decisions frequently include “rules”
that prevent abuses of civil liberties once the war is over, the
potentially unending nature of the war on terror may undercut any
such
protections.
And in the meantime, allowing the administration to have its way now
may
embolden Ashcroft and others to seek new tools for the war on terror
—
even if those tools come at the expense of civil liberties that would
otherwise be held sacrosanct.
Such may be the case with the Domestic Security Enhancement Act. Like
the PATRIOT Act, PATRIOT II is a collection of provisions that touch
upon virtually every aspect of law enforcement in the United States
and
abroad. Among other things, it would:
# Cancel judicial consent decrees that prevent local police
departments
from spying on civil rights groups and other organizations that might
once have been deemed subversive.
# Require anyone suspected of participating in terrorist activities
and
any noncitizens suspected of supporting “terrorist” groups to submit
a
DNA sample for inclusion in a “Terrorist Identification Database.”
Allow the attorney general to revoke the U.S. citizenship of anyone
who
provides assistance to any group the government considers to be a
“terrorist” organization. Once the individual’s citizenship is
revoked,
the attorney general would then be free to deport him — or to hold
him
indefinitely in government custody.
Although PATRIOT Act I and many of the other more publicized efforts
in
the war on terror have focused on the rights of foreigners and of
aliens
living in the United States, the Domestic Security Enhancement Act
aims
much more squarely — and broadly — at the rights of U.S. citizens.
Cole and others believe that this shift of focus may finally cause
Congress to put on the brakes. Indeed, when reliable administration
supporters like Bill O’Reilly and the American Conservative Union
raise
serious concerns about a proposal, as they have with PATRIOT Act II,
there may be hope that Justice Department officials will exercise
some
restraint in what they propose, or at least that Congress will be
emboldened to ask hard questions before giving in.
There have been some civil liberties victories in recent months,
particularly where the executive branch has reached for powers that
would intrude on the privacy rights of individual Americans. Ashcroft
last year asked Congress for authority to launch Operation TIPS — a
program that would have turned the nation’s letter carriers and
meter-readers into junior spies — but Congress turned him down.
Earlier this month, the Senate Commerce Committee approved a measure
that will require Tom Ridge to report to Congress on the
civil-liberties
impacts of CAPS II, a government computer program designed to assign
terrorist risk levels to everyone who boards a commercial airliner.
And last month, Congress placed a hold on any funding for the Total
Information Awareness program, a Defense Department plan to build a
massive database on U.S. citizens based on everything from their
credit
card statements and medical records to the words they type into
Internet
search engines. Perhaps members of Congress found the privacy
intrusions
too much to stomach, or maybe they just couldn’t believe that the
administration was really suggesting that the Defense Department’s
John
Poindexter — the former Reagan National Security Advisor who lied to
Congress about the Iran-Contra affair — should actually be the man
who
is trusted with the private information of every American citizen.
Either way, they found the temerity to say no to the program.
But with the troops on the battlefield in Iraq and the fear of
terrorist
reprisals back home, it is hard to believe Congress will hold off the
administration forever. If U.S. soldiers are killed in substantial
numbers or if terrorists strike at U.S. targets, members of Congress
will feel the need to stand with the troops, with the president, and
with “us” instead of “them.” That may mean standing with John
Ashcroft
as well.
“The real danger to our liberty comes from politicians wanting to
look
like they are doing something in a time of crisis,” said the ACLU’s
Edgar. “Unfortunately, it’s inevitable that there will be
politicians,
including politicians in the Justice Department, who aren’t really
looking to make us safer but to take advantage of the situation.”
*salon.com* * *
__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Iraq war architect in Global Crossing conflict of interest
Date: March 26, 2003 at 11:25:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29889.html
Iraq war architect in Global Crossing conflict of interest
By Thomas C Greene in Washington
Posted: 24/03/2003 at 10:04 GMT
Among the neo-conservatives advising US President George W. Bush on
matters military and imperial, Richard Perle looms large as Chairman of
the Defense Policy Board, an unpaid policy brain trust appointed by
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Perle, a former
Reagan-Administration Assistant Defense Secretary, is associated,
through numerous radiating lines of Washington patronage, to a gaggle
of Reaganite and Bush Senior re-treads moving and shaking in Washington
today.
These include members of neo-imperialist organizations like the
American Enterprise Institute and Project for the New American Century,
which bring together such ambitious America-uber-alles luminaries as
Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz and Bill Kristol. They
urge military policies engineered to make the Middle East US-friendly
by force, and have been instrumental in inducing Bush Junior to serve
up Saddam Hussein as a convenient scapegoat for the maddeningly elusive
Osama bin Laden.
“Saddam Hussein is at the very core of the war against terrorism. There
can be no victory in the war against terrorism if, at the end of it,
Saddam Hussein is still in power…because he is the symbol of defiance
of all Western values,” Perle asserted during an interview a scant four
weeks after the 9/11 atrocity.
So what’s this got to do with the technology industry? Nothing, one
would hope; but unfortunately, financially-dessicated telecoms outfit
and former giant Global Crossing is looking to get bought by
bargain-hungry foreigners, and the Department of Defense deems this
rather a poor idea. The US government uses the company’s pipes, so its
sale to Hutchison Whampoa, owned by a Hong Kong business tycoon, and
Singapore Telemedia, a phone company owned by the local government,
raises rather obvious national-security difficulties and doubts.
Thus Perle has been retained by Global Crossing to work his persuasive
magic with stubborn DoD skeptics. He’s being paid US $725,000 for his
lobbying efforts if they succeed, a mighty sum when one considers the
company’s slide from a $4 billion behemoth to a $400 million pipsqueak
with gargantuan debts. The regulatory organ Perle has been hired to
‘persuade’ is called CFIUS (Committee on Foreign Investment in the US),
and it has the legal power to block the sale. The problem is that Perle
appears to have been assigned the task of using his position with the
Defense Policy Board to benefit a private client, something frowned
upon in Washington. Because $600,000 of Perle’s anticipated reward is
contingent on the sale going through, it’s hard to deny that he’s
motivated to bend perceptions on his client’s behalf.
“As the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, I have…intimate
knowledge of the national defense and security issues that will be
raised by the CFIUS review process that is not…available to the other
CFIUS professionals,” Perle wrote in an affidavit. Perle told the New
York Times that this extremely suggestive language was inserted due to
a “clerical error”. He said that he had seen it in a draft and had
struck it out. He later said that after striking it out, it
mysteriously re-appeared in the final copy, which he signed without
noticing the error.
He rejects any notion that there could be influence peddling going on.
“I’m not using public office for private gain because the Defense
Policy Board has nothing to do with the CFIUS process,” the NYT quotes
him as saying. And of course that’s strictly correct; but he has
something to do with it, and his position with DPB is a major reason
why he’s been chosen. We might question the wisdom of a high-level
defense advisor who sees nothing wrong with selling a network used by
Uncle Sam to the Chinese, and wonder if his advice on re-structuring
the Middle East is of any better quality.
Perle has also been in the news recently for other reasons. Displeased
by a piece on him in the New Yorker by veteran journalist Seymour
Hersh, Perle moderately told CNN: “Look, Sy Hersh is the closest thing
American journalism has to a terrorist, frankly.” Then for good measure
followed it up by telling the New York Sun that the New Yorker piece
was ” all lies, from beginning to end,” and that he was launching a
libel action in London. Says the Sun: “He said he is suing in Britain
because it is easier to win such cases there, where the burden on
plaintiffs is much less.”
Nice. The Register’s local spotters feel that Perle may have got
slightly the wrong impression about the UK libel process, but
nevertheless look forward to seeing him there in the witness box.
Alongside, we trust, Adnan Khashoggi and a galaxy of stars from recent
and not-so-recent Republican administrations. Ū
__________________________________________________
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From: ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] dosage, nausea advice requested
Date: March 26, 2003 at 11:41:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi
I’m planning to take four grams of the ethngarden
extract on easter weekend. I am a 95 kg (approx 200
lbs) male, with no major addiction (besides caffiene).
I am taking iboga in hopes of resolving a trauma from
two years ago, and some childhood trauma as well. In
addition, I’m hoping to have a spiritual experience.
My first question is, does anybody know if 4 grams of
the ethnogarden extract would be likely to lead to a
full-blown iboga experience? I previously ingested
about 20 grams of iboga root bark powder mixed with
milk, and had little or no effect. In that case I
threw up much of it after it had been in my system for
a couple of hours; the liquid looked about the same
going out as coming in, so I may not have absorbed
much. According to my estimates, 4 grams of
ethnogarden extract should equal about 1 gram of
ibogaine. From my previous experience I’m not sure if
I’m unusually resistent to it.
My second question concerns nausea: 4 grams is about
all I can (barely) afford in the near future, and so I
reall do not want to throw it up! Any advice on
this? Some reports I’ve read mention taking OTC
anti-nausea meds before and during the trip, so I may
try that – but I’m concerned about the possibility
that such meds may interfere with the iboga trip
itself. Does anyone have any advice on this?
Thanks for any information or advice anyone can
provide. 🙂
-metagrrl
__________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 26, 2003 at 1:57:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 3/26/03 1:26:39 PM, randyhencken@hotmail.com writes:
I don’t know if this is true, but I was told that psilocybin was an antidote
to ibogaine. Has anyone else ever heard this?
What I can tell you is that LSD and mescaline are NOT antidotes for ibogaine.
Howard
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 26, 2003 at 1:24:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t know if this is true, but I was told that psilocybin was an antedote to ibogaine. Has anyone else ever heard this?
Randy
From: “Christina Kester” <poppy_1974@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:43:23 -0500
i didn’t feel like I slept at all and know I didn’t sleep much during the first two weeks after I did iboga, except for two nights a couple of days apart when I ate psychedelic mushrooms. i don’t know why but for some reason I slept really well after tripping on mushrooms. Does anyone know why?
Christina
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 14:18:41 -0500
On [Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 10:59:01AM -0500], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:
| provide you with a sedative. It is amazing how much better anyone would feel
| getting some sleep after five days of not sleeping.
YeahYeahYeahYeah. Yup.
| not be rxd a sedative. Any sedative will do. It is amazing what one night
| of sleep will do for your general well being.
For whut it’s worth, if you can’t sleep — and are trying to avoid benzos
— something that usually works for me is sublingual melatonin. None of
the herbal remedies, ever remedy much of anything in my case, and 5-HTP
duz nuthin’
Another over the counter thingie that actually does work is doxylamine
succinate. Most “sleep aids” are Benadryl (diphenhydramine) — which,
also, unfortunately, does absolutely nothing, for me anyway — but you can
still find doxylamine succinate in sum’ of ’em. I think the original
Unisom is doxy.
I have perpetual problems with sleeping. I’m manic-depressive and cycle
very fast; making it to sleep before 4am is nearly impossible. But if I
do 12-15mg sublingual melatonin mixed with 75-125mg doxylamine succinate,
it will usually knock me out (I’m 6’2″ 210lbs).
The melatonin I do every night, the doxy is sumthin’ to toss in when
you’re still not going out. And yeah, I can relate. Not being able to
sleep for days at a time, is incredibly annoying.
The melatonin I’d suggest using on a regular basis, it’s highly cool and
works.
The doxy is something to toss into the mix when the melatonin isn’t
working by itself. It’s pretty interesting, because it’s the only
over-the-counter nonaddictive “sleep aid” that has ever worked for me.
Ambien — and, basically, anything that’s not a benzo — also does
absolutely nothing for me.
Doxy appears to work for most of the other people I know who have major
sleep problems — related to stepping off heroin, or just in general.
laters,
Patrick
_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Christina Kester” <poppy_1974@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 26, 2003 at 12:43:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
i didn’t feel like I slept at all and know I didn’t sleep much during the first two weeks after I did iboga, except for two nights a couple of days apart when I ate psychedelic mushrooms. i don’t know why but for some reason I slept really well after tripping on mushrooms. Does anyone know why?
Christina
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 14:18:41 -0500
On [Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 10:59:01AM -0500], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:
| provide you with a sedative. It is amazing how much better anyone would feel
| getting some sleep after five days of not sleeping.
YeahYeahYeahYeah. Yup.
| not be rxd a sedative. Any sedative will do. It is amazing what one night
| of sleep will do for your general well being.
For whut it’s worth, if you can’t sleep — and are trying to avoid benzos
— something that usually works for me is sublingual melatonin. None of
the herbal remedies, ever remedy much of anything in my case, and 5-HTP
duz nuthin’
Another over the counter thingie that actually does work is doxylamine
succinate. Most “sleep aids” are Benadryl (diphenhydramine) — which,
also, unfortunately, does absolutely nothing, for me anyway — but you can
still find doxylamine succinate in sum’ of ’em. I think the original
Unisom is doxy.
I have perpetual problems with sleeping. I’m manic-depressive and cycle
very fast; making it to sleep before 4am is nearly impossible. But if I
do 12-15mg sublingual melatonin mixed with 75-125mg doxylamine succinate,
it will usually knock me out (I’m 6’2″ 210lbs).
The melatonin I do every night, the doxy is sumthin’ to toss in when
you’re still not going out. And yeah, I can relate. Not being able to
sleep for days at a time, is incredibly annoying.
The melatonin I’d suggest using on a regular basis, it’s highly cool and
works.
The doxy is something to toss into the mix when the melatonin isn’t
working by itself. It’s pretty interesting, because it’s the only
over-the-counter nonaddictive “sleep aid” that has ever worked for me.
Ambien — and, basically, anything that’s not a benzo — also does
absolutely nothing for me.
Doxy appears to work for most of the other people I know who have major
sleep problems — related to stepping off heroin, or just in general.
laters,
Patrick
_________________________________________________________________
From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Everything you need to know about the Iraq War
Date: March 24, 2003 at 10:30:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: bcmp@drugsense.org, usmjparty@drugsense.org
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc Emery says The debate that ends it all is right here…
A WARMONGER EXPLAINS WAR TO A PEACENIK
By Anonymous
PeaceNik: Why did you say we are we invading Iraq?
WarMonger: We are invading Iraq because it is in violation of
security council resolution 1441. A country cannot be allowed to violate
security council resolutions.
PN: But I thought many of our allies, including Israel, were in
violation of more security council resolutions than Iraq.
WM: It’s not just about UN resolutions. The main point is that Iraq
could have weapons of mass destruction, and the first sign of a smoking
gun could well be a mushroom cloud over NY.
PN: Mushroom cloud? But I thought the weapons inspectors said Iraq
had no nuclear weapons.
WM: Yes, but biological and chemical weapons are the issue.
PN: But I thought Iraq did not have any long range missiles for attacking
us or our allies with such weapons.
WM: The risk is not Iraq directly attacking us, but rather
terrorists networks that Iraq could sell the weapons to.
PN: But couldn’t virtually any country sell chemical or biological
materials? We sold quite a bit to Iraq in the eighties ourselves, didn’t we?
WM: That’s ancient history. Look, Saddam Hussein is an evil man
that has an undeniable track record of repressing his own people since the
early eighties. He gasses his enemies. Everyone agrees that he is a
power-hungry lunatic murderer.
PN: We sold chemical and biological materials to a power-hungry lunatic
murderer?
WM: The issue is not what we sold, but rather what Saddam did. He is the
one that launched a pre-emptive first strike on Kuwait.
PN: A pre-emptive first strike does sound bad. But didn’t our ambassador to
Iraq, April Gillespie, know about and green-light the invasion of Kuwait?
WM: Let’s deal with the present, shall we? As of today, Iraq could sell its
biological and chemical weapons to Al Quaida. Osama Bin Laden himself
released an audio tape calling on Iraqis to suicide-attack us, proving a
partnership between the two.
PN: Osama Bin Laden? Wasn’t the point of invading Afghanistan to
kill him?
WM: Actually, it’s not 100% certain that it’s really Osama Bin Laden on the
tapes. But the lesson from the tape is the same: there could easily be a
partnership between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein unless we act.
PN: Is this the same audio tape where Osama Bin Laden labels Saddam a
secular infidel?
WM: You’re missing the point by just focusing on the tape. Powell
presented a strong case against Iraq.
PN: He did?
WM: Yes, he showed satellite pictures of an Al Quaida poison factory in
Iraq.
PN: But didn’t that turn out to be a harmless shack in the part of Iraq
controlled by the Kurdish opposition?
WM: And a British intelligence report…
PN: Didn’t that turn out to be copied from an out-of-date graduate student
paper?
WM: And reports of mobile weapons labs…
PN: Weren’t those just artistic renderings?
WM: And reports of Iraqis scuttling and hiding evidence from inspectors…
PN: Wasn’t that evidence contradicted by the chief weapons inspector, Hans
Blix?
WM: Yes, but there is plenty of other hard evidence that cannot be revealed
because it would compromise our security.
PN: So there is no publicly available evidence of weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq?
WM: The inspectors are not detectives, it’s not their JOB to find evidence.
You’re missing the point.
PN: So what is the point?
WM: The main point is that we are invading Iraq because resolution 1441
threatened “severe consequences.” If we do not act, the security council
will become an irrelevant debating society.
PN: So the main point is to uphold the rulings of the security council?
WM: Absolutely. …unless it rules against us.
PN: And what if it does rule against us?
WM: In that case, we must lead a coalition of the willing to invade Iraq.
PN: Coalition of the willing? Who’s that?
WM: Britain, Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, and Italy, for starters.
PN: I thought Turkey refused to help us unless we gave them tens of
billions of dollars.
WM: Nevertheless, they may now be willing.
PN: I thought public opinion in all those countries was against war.
WM: Current public opinion is irrelevant. The majority expresses its will
by electing leaders to make decisions.
PN: So it’s the decisions of leaders elected by the majority that is
important?
WM: Yes.
PN: But George Bush wasn’t elected by voters. He was selected by the U.S.
Supreme C…-
WM: I mean, we must support the decisions of our leaders, however they were
elected, because they are acting in our best interest. This is about being a
patriot. That’s the bottom line.
PN: So if we do not support the decisions of the president, we are not
patriotic?
WM: I never said that.
PN: So what are you saying? Why are we invading Iraq?
WM: As I said, because there is a chance that they have weapons of mass
destruction that threaten us and our allies.
PN: But the inspectors have not been able to find any such weapons.
WM: Iraq is obviously hiding them.
PN: You know this? How?
WM: Because we know they had the weapons ten years ago, and they are still
unaccounted for.
PN: The weapons we sold them, you mean?
WM: Precisely.
PN: But I thought those biological and chemical weapons would degrade to an
unusable state over ten years.
WM: But there is a chance that some have not degraded.
PN: So as long as there is even a small chance that such weapons exist, we
must invade?
WM: Exactly.
PN: But North Korea actually has large amounts of usable chemical,
biological, AND nuclear weapons, AND long range missiles that can reach the
west coast AND it has expelled nuclear weapons inspectors, AND threatened to
turn America into a sea of fire.
WM: That’s a diplomatic issue.
PN: So why are we invading Iraq instead of using diplomacy?
WM: Aren’t you listening? We are invading Iraq because we cannot
allow the inspections to drag on indefinitely. Iraq has been delaying,
deceiving, and denying for over ten years, and inspections cost us tens of
millions.
PN: But I thought war would cost us tens of billions.
WM: Yes, but this is not about money. This is about security.
PN: But wouldn’t a pre-emptive war against Iraq ignite radical
Muslim sentiments against us, and decrease our security?
WM: Possibly, but we must not allow the terrorists to change the
way we live. Once we do that, the terrorists have already won.
PN: So what is the purpose of the Department of Homeland Security,
color-coded terror alerts, and the Patriot Act? Don’t these change the way
we live?
WM: I thought you had questions about Iraq.
PN: I do. Why are we invading Iraq?
WM: For the last time, we are invading Iraq because the world has
called on Saddam Hussein to disarm, and he has failed to do so. He must now
face the consequences.
PN: So, likewise, if the world called on us to do something, such
as find a peaceful solution, we would have an obligation to listen?
WM: By “world”, I meant the United Nations.
PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the United Nations?
WM: By “United Nations” I meant the Security Council.
PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the Security Council?
WM: I meant the majority of the Security Council.
PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the majority of the
Security Council?
WM: Well… there could be an unreasonable veto.
PN: In which case?
WM: In which case, we have an obligation to ignore the veto.
PN: And if the majority of the Security Council does not support us
at all?
WM: Then we have an obligation to ignore the Security Council.
PN: That makes no sense.
WM: If you love Iraq so much, you should move there. Or maybe
France, with all the other cheese-eating surrender monkeys. It’s time to
boycott
their wine and cheese, no doubt about that.
PN: I give up!
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] System of a Down
Date: March 24, 2003 at 4:23:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Here is a way we can keep the anti-war movement in the mainstream. Watch this video by System of a Down. Then go to MTV and vote for it to be on TRL.
http://www.systemofadown.com/montage.html
MTV:
http://www.mtv.com/onair/trl/votevideo.jhtml
You will have to write in the bands name and the song’s title:Boom
Peace,
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 24, 2003 at 1:03:55 PM EST
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
(Had to resubscribe under a different address – my myrealbox address hasn’t
delivered any emails I’ve sent for days, but I can receive them through it.
This one seems to work.)
This message included below was sent to PNEWS recently by its owner Hank
Roth, a disabled veteran who volunteers much of his time helping disabled
vets, and who used to work for the Eisenhower administration. Hank has his
own causes aside from protesting this war, so keep that in mind when you see
his slogans at the bottom. He’s an honorable person, and I have never known
him to be insincere nor have I ever seen him to be supporting or not
supporting something without just cause, although I do not agree with him
about everything.
Hank Roth’s bio – http://pnews.org/bio/1bio.shtml (it is a fascinating read)
I present this in order to give some perspective on his message, which
certainly could be misintepreted if not taken in context.
– jt
—– Original Message —–
From: “Elam” <alef@g0lem.net>
To: <PNEWS-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 3:51 PM
(No war in Iraq – http://pnews.org/)
=========================================================================
Subscribe or Unsubscribe to PNEWS (“progressive” news and views) forums
(on internet since 1982): — http://pnews.org/signup.shtml
Oldest “progressive” mailing list on the interNUT….
=========================================================================
To my daughter and grandchildren:
This war is an immoral act and anyone who has a sense of humanity must
reject the reasons given for it. The reasons are lies. There is NO justice
or valid reasons for this war. Protest George Bush’s war.
The girls should not get caught up in the glorification that accompanies
military successes. No yellow ribbons. No flags. There are no flags large
enough to hide our shame.
The girls must know it is NOT a video game even though it will seem
like on on television and the death and dying will not seem real.
It is real. In war real people are being MURDERED.
It is not possible to support the troops who are participating in this
mass slaughter. There is NO draft. Every one of them is there because they
volunteered to be there. The reservists, the national guard and the
regular military are there because they wanted to play soldier. They had
that choice. Now we are being asked to support them because they’re
Americans and someone’s sons and daughters. I won’t do it. I don’t support
what they’re doing.
I will only support sick and hospitalized veterans. But I won’t support
those who kill in my name any more than I could support those who killed
for Hitler. I won’t support those who kill for Bush.
Oppose the WAR because it is wrong. The evidence against Saddam was
fabricated by a crazed, chicken hawk, immoral president.
Don’t support the war, support George Bush’s
impeachment!
I’m sure you will try to explain to your girls the immorality of this
war and of all wars. Someday war must become extinct.
DAD
_____
/ o o \
===OO=====OO==================================================
TheGolemsPlace (Where everything REALLY begins)
West Server -: http://pnews.org/ East Server -: http://g0lem.net/
Vortals: http://pnews.org/NWO/phpnuke/ (New World disOrder)
http://pnews.org/MEP/phpnuke/ (Middle-East)
http://g0lem.net/PHP/phpnuke/ (Progressive News and Views)
http://g0lem.net/HTH/phpnuke/ (Health and Veterans)
==================================================================
\_/ \_/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NO BLOOD FOR OIL – DROP BUSH, NOT BOMBS! – PEOPLE BEFORE PROFITS!
END CAPITALISM AND GIVE PEACE A CHANCE…….
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] The Purple and the next things
Date: March 24, 2003 at 6:57:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I had a dream last night, where we were all together, deep in the
purple. Outside the circle, or the house, there was all kinds of chaos
and strife. Inside the house, however, there was warmth and light.
These things you see and feel, that the world outside is ending is no
less true than to understand that it is also beginning. Your mission,
should you choose to accept it, is to learn what it means to walk on
water. To put it another way, the matrix cannot tell you who you are,
but only the one who is pouring out the purple. ASK. Then the doors of
perception will pop open for you, and you will no longer fear.
Grace and peace to you.
_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666
Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________
crownofthorns@hushmail.com 03/21/03 04:23PM >>>
Thanks for this Sandy and thanks to you Patrick, much love bro. I
sometimes
forget that you really believe in the lights, I do not mean that I
don’t,
I do, but not like I can directly use them to stay clean or something
like you do. I think aside from being a little overwrought about
things,
I forgot what some here reminded me. It is all a play or movie, I was
very upset though because I am an american, I do care about people and
where I live and what’s happened here in the last days is very not
good.
I still don’t know which way to go, are demonstrations worth it, do I
vote against someone or for someone, but the shock has passed and I’ve
calmed down. I just can’t believe how far downhill we’ve gone in only
a little more then 2 years. Everything that’s happening is awful.
I think what I mean is I was looking at the TV and thinking shit the
world is ending, while some of you are looking inside and going, no
it’s
not. Maybe I need to work on that part more.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:54:57 -0800 booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<html><div style=’background-color:’><DIV>
<P>Hey Curtis – I know how you feel, but if you do happen to believe
in reincarnation then all of this is just a play we keep putting
on, rearranging the characters and keep trying to play it
out with
more wisdom and maturity. If there really is a space like the
space I felt I visited on ibo – I’m convinced this earth trip is
really truly that old adage – “just school.” And we’re just
building imaginary block castles and then knocking them over
again. The wars, the pain, the suffering is all an
illusion
altho it’s a pretty damn painful illusion at times. The
Australian Aborigines say – you can kill all the kangeroos, but
you can
never kill kangeroo-dreaming. So it’ll all be okay in the
end…
whatever that is. Best and love, Sandy <BR></P>
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 4:40:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Its important to remember the rhetoric gets very heated in wars between
friends.
Thats just the way it is. Its important to remember the decision for war was
not made by any of us, so its important to remember were all friends here.
<snip>
Marc,
This writing is very good; well-stated, diplomatic and well thought out. I encourage you to continue to try to approach other people/situations with the same manner. Try to avoid attacking people and name calling, it only makes you come across poorly/immature and I doubt that these are characteristics you would like to have associated with your name. Being able to communicate in an efficient, productive and non-aggressive manner is amongst actions that positive beings strive to incorporate into their self. Many of us only know you here in cyberspace. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a good person who means well. There are several ways that I have grown and matured in my recovery and there are several places I have benefited from outside sources including: Ibogaine, SMART recovery, yoga, a good diet and foremost for this discussion a good therapist. In therapy we didn’t work on addiction issues, because god knows I was already well versed in addiction. We worked on communication skills and emotion management. Now I try to approach all situations level headed. When I find myself acting in a way that is uncomfortable I have the mental strength to come out of that headspace. I approach conflict with a true desire to accomplish the needs of all parties involved. If I scream or name-call no one is going listen. If I share how I feel, no one can disregard my feelings or at least they can’t tell me my feelings are wrong. So this is a short lesson in making the most of the art of communicating.
Peace,
Randy
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From: “geoff sorenson” <sorenson4@lycos.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] who voted for bush
Date: March 23, 2003 at 4:24:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@Mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
who voted for him? how about most of the people who aren’t on mindvox. who lands here is the hacker underground and people who have done a huge amount of drugs. this website is loaded up at raves and flashed over the screens. anybody normal who looks at this thing and finds a psychedelic symbol of chaos and a website that contains not one word of coherent information is not going to sign into it.
a good description of this place is from whitehouse org and the psychedelic republicans site, mental illness and drug addiction taken to art. love this place but it is a homing signal for the weird.
where are the people who voted for bush how about everywhere except drug oriented melting websites. probably wont find them on erowid either.
ya’ll are interesting and smart. you’re also not exactly mainstream america. if there’s so many of you here that you’ve got your own world going thats great but dont get fooled into thinking that what any of you think somehow represents most normal people. most normal people would vote to take away your drugs and throw ya’ll into the loony bin.
-geoff
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] A REASON
Date: March 23, 2003 at 4:00:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Allison, no problem. I’ve never done methadone either but I’ve read the
atwatchdog and some NAMA links that were posted here a long time ago.
never seen to much misery and unhapiness in one place before, doesnt
make me want to run out and get addicted to heroin so I can experience
that.
A interesting msg from the vox list which i’m reposting here is
rogue’s.
What I find the most interesting is that out of the huge number of
weird groups of people who populate mindvox, and i dont mean to dis
anyone, I dont say weird in a bad way but hardcore drug users,
psychedelic users, hardcore hackers, 20 other groups, who all have
different opinions about everything all agree on bush is a asshole.
Who elected this idiot and who does he represent??? nobody I can find.
.:vector:.
— rogue@ghettohackers.net wrote:
We agree that there is a power stuggle as the old system goes down,
but
the new system will not be nearly as mindlessly materialistic in
large
part because of the mystical experiences people will receive in
reconstructed ancient rituals.
We’re clearly seeing an upsurge in transcendentalism using various
metaphors &
methodologies. When you “connect” using meditation, drugs, sex,
rituals or
whatever, you lose the zero-sum mentality & take on a non-zero-sum
cooperative
one. This enables the dissolution of the heirarchy & formation of
self-organized structures; but transcendental experience only gives
you the
motivation, not the tools, to build cooperative systems that can work
in the
long haul. Isn’t that what the 60’s proved?
Although transcendance is on the rise, I can’t see it becoming
“mainstream” by
itself. If you ever want self-organized cooperation to have a chance
at
becoming the dominant worldview, you need a way for the “straights”
to adopt it
as well. You’re going to need something that can overtake the
business &
political worlds; they’re never going to give up power without a
fight.
Network theory provides stable structures that scale; game theory
proves that
cooperation is more profitable than competition & gives the
non-zero-sum mindset
traction in the linear, zero-sum business mind. If you make more
money than the
other guys & keep your people happier in the process, the business
world will be
forced to adopt your methods sooner or later.
The same holds true for politics. If you build political
voting/activist blocks
using these concepts, they will overtake & outperform top-down
heirarchies.
This is not pie-in-the-sky optimism. This is the mathematical
certainty of a
game of chess that’s already over & won, although it has a number of
moves left
before the “win” is realized. Our job is just to keep making the
moves that
lead to checkmate.
We’re already seeing the first fruits of it in Linux’s success
against Microsoft
& the growing voice of the antiwar rallies. Open source development
has been
shown to create scale-free social structures, & stories about how
MoveOn & the
San Fransisco antiwar demonstrations are using “smart mobbing”
abound. You
don’t even have to understand the math behind it to have it happen.
Algorithms hold up well in a completely rational reality system.
We,
however, dont have one of those.
Business follows money. Political power follows the votes. I’m not
opposed to
the transcendental route to cooperation, I just don’t see the
necessity of it.
RA
__________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 3:54:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc did make some good points, and I agree, Randy… as much as I want the
green to win the ticket to the presidential seat, it is throwing votes away for
the lesser of the evils. It may take another 10-20 years for the green to
gather serious momentum with the way Americans view politricks. And any
politician -Repub or Dem- who makes his way to a presidential campaign is
corrupt. You just can’t get that far without some major skellies in the closet.
Well, that’s what history has shown and I’d love to be proven wrong in the
future on that one.
Until recently I’ve been pretty politically unaware and naive, and sorry for
it. I’m 36 and didn’t vote untill the last national election, I had this fucked
up ideal of not participating in something I didn’t understand or care about –
hell we all know what comes first in a full blown heroin habit anyhow. Now that
I am scrambling to understand what has happened/is happening, I am appalled by
the truths that are emerging.
A lot of what I read 13 years ago in a book titled “Behold a Pale Horse” (aside
from the unproven alien conspiracies) has come to pass.
scary people in power during scary times.
-gamma
— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Marc, Your comments about supporting the troops are very well stated and I
agree with you. I am not sure if in a previous email I used the phrase “I
must support our troops”. I think I did. I wrote this without really
considering the implications of that statement. And if I did indeed write
that, at this time I would like to retract that comment. What I meant was
much more along the lines with the “come home safely” type of thinking. And
I am still absolutely opposed to this war and this regime we live under. I
am ashamed to be an American right now. I hope that many people throughout
the world will be able to recognize the difference between a government and
it’s people. I also hope that outside pressures and inside pressures can
cause a large enough rift to bring The U.S. back down to a more modest
nation willing to work, compromise and negotiate with a the rest of the
world.
<snip>
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 1:01:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc, Your comments about supporting the troops are very well stated and I agree with you. I am not sure if in a previous email I used the phrase “I must support our troops”. I think I did. I wrote this without really considering the implications of that statement. And if I did indeed write that, at this time I would like to retract that comment. What I meant was much more along the lines with the “come home safely” type of thinking. And I am still absolutely opposed to this war and this regime we live under. I am ashamed to be an American right now. I hope that many people throughout the world will be able to recognize the difference between a government and it’s people. I also hope that outside pressures and inside pressures can cause a large enough rift to bring The U.S. back down to a more modest nation willing to work, compromise and negotiate with a the rest of the world.
Part of my recovery, growth and maturity comes from learning lessons and acting upon them. I live under the worst president of my lifetime. I voted for Nader in the State of New Mexico, where Bush barely won. Unfortunately, we live in a two party system. Casting a vote for a third party, as much as it may be a vote with your conscious/heart is throwing away your vote. In a two party system we must vote with strategy; because the WINNER TAKES ALL.
From what I can see, Howard Dean ( http://www.deanforamerica.com )is the most progressive Dem, with a chance of winning, running in the upcoming primaries. I urge all the Americans here to check out his site and to see if he has enough of your values at interest that you can vote for him in the primary and then get him to get Bushco out.
Our user voices have no chance under the Ashcroft/Satan policies. But they may have a chance under a progressive Dem. Why? Because reforming drug policy, while not necessarily popular, is logical, reasonable and legitimate. So we get Dean in with our vote and use our voice and dollar to raise awareness about drug policy reform. And eventually we may see the change we here all wish for.
I may be very afraid of my Gov’t today, but I do not live in fear. I continue to do all things that I feel good about, helping addicts, eating consciously etc… J.T., I can look myself in the mirror and know that I am doing my best… I am off to Yoga now.
Peace to all,
Randy
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 10:40:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 3/23/03 8:14:44 AM, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:
My partner was on the methadone programme for 4 years, got off and then
went back to using and then applied again and their main argument about
giving him Meth was that I wasn’t on the programme etc. He eventually
got it but it wasn’t easy and they treated us like dirt cos I wouldn’t tow
the line as they called it. Anyways, I’m woffling and probably time I went
to bed and shut up. Just meant to say that no insult was intented, I was
just curious. Allison
Allison,
In addition to being the discoverer of ibogaine’s antiaddictive effects I
have spent the last five years as a member of the board of directors of the
national alliance of methadone advocates (NAMA) www.methadone.org. Most
methadone clinics treat most patients, as you say, “like dirt”. However, it
was not always so. My presentation on early era ibogaine and methadone
patients at the American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence
<http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod.html> will provide a review of just how well
the pre 1973 methadone patients were treated. This is often called the
golden age of methadone when Drs. Dole and Nyswander who were somewhat to
methadone what I was to ibogaine had hands on control of methadone therapy.
An important issue I will try to address in my presentation is the
relationship of power and control that early generation ibogaine patients and
methadone patients shared that is not held by most of the current generation
of patients to each drug though the situation for methadone patients is far
far worse.
If there are any ibogaine people in the Washington, DC area I would like to
have the opportunity to meet with you when I am in DC in April for the
conference. You can contact me via email off list if you wish. Thanks on
that.
Howard
Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
45 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com
http://www.doraweiner.org
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 8:13:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Maybe I didn’t phrase my e-mail very well. What I said about not being a
drug addict etc. was not meant as a critisism. Perhaps I was being pretty
naive to think everyone else was looking and reading this list cos they had
drug problems. Sorry if it came across all wrong cos thats not what I
meant. I just thought most people searching for help and info from sites
were users who were looking for solutions and cures etc other than dealing
with the bullshit of the handcuff methadone programmme solution which
entails all the questions, digging into your personal space and as far as I
have experienced the superiority and condescending attitudes that go with
it. My partner was on the methadone programme for 4 years, got off and then
went back to using and then applied again and their main argument about
giving him Meth was that I wasn’t on the programme etc. He eventually got
it but it wasn’t easy and they treated us like dirt cos I wouldn’t tow the
line as they called it. Anyways, I’m woffling and probably time I went to
bed and shut up. Just meant to say that no insult was intented, I was just
curious. Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Why is that surprising? There are lots of people I know reading this
list who aren’t drug addicts. I’ve been here since almost the start of
it, I don’t bother anybody. I smoke pot I do entheogens I don’t
consider that to be a problem. I’ve never done acid yet and have not
tripped on ibogaine but sure plan to do both when the chance comes my
way. It’s interesting to read about heroin and crack but I don’t have
any desire to do them.
Mindvox isn’t the ibogaine list, there are at least 5 more lists here
and this is the one place where Lord Digital of LOD has ever said
anything in almost 10 years. LD of LOD is also known as Patrick. He
doesnt answer email he writes some rant to the vox list every 6 months.
So a lot of people moved to this list to read what he has to say. The
purple msg is a major highlight. Hard to beat that, great words to come
back from the dead with 🙂 Ohhh, everyone who ran mindvox was a drug
addict??? that’s a biggggggggggggggg surprise. But 2002 was the first
time anyone admitted it. It’s not like they issued press releases
saying they’re junkies and alcoholic pillheads. I don’t think that was
a big highlight in 2001 when they were getting duocash minted either.
Oh ps, give us 2 million we’re drug addicts. Nobody said that until it
all went down and then mindvox came back online. duocash is still
sitting there, so is ibex so is pix but I think all the companies died
when dot com did.
I’m not stupid, I’m over 18, I don’t start fights here, I find all of
this interesting. When people ask dumb technical questions I answer
them when i can in email. What’s wrong with that? I don’t feel like I
have to hide like so many others are or am not allowed to say
something.
I agree with what you said about voting but I’m not sure its a good way
to get bush out of office. I don’t know about that at all which is why
I asked. The vox list is having the same conversation, so I asked here.
.:vector:.
— Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I’m surprised by that mail. It must be the first time I’ve seen
anyone
posting for ages and then saying they are not an addict, have never
used
etc. and have been interested enough to read and communicate and stay
connected to a site that revolves round addiction and cures etc.
About voting, perhaps if everyone voted for what they believed in
instead of
trying to guess the results from their vote it would be a more honest
outcome and you never know perhaps some of the minority parties would
start
looking pretty hopefull. Kind of like the sheep sort of thing. Once
some
are brave enough to do it and it shows a positive others will
follow.???
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 6:13:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Why is that surprising? There are lots of people I know reading this
list who aren’t drug addicts. I’ve been here since almost the start of
it, I don’t bother anybody. I smoke pot I do entheogens I don’t
consider that to be a problem. I’ve never done acid yet and have not
tripped on ibogaine but sure plan to do both when the chance comes my
way. It’s interesting to read about heroin and crack but I don’t have
any desire to do them.
Mindvox isn’t the ibogaine list, there are at least 5 more lists here
and this is the one place where Lord Digital of LOD has ever said
anything in almost 10 years. LD of LOD is also known as Patrick. He
doesnt answer email he writes some rant to the vox list every 6 months.
So a lot of people moved to this list to read what he has to say. The
purple msg is a major highlight. Hard to beat that, great words to come
back from the dead with 🙂 Ohhh, everyone who ran mindvox was a drug
addict??? that’s a biggggggggggggggg surprise. But 2002 was the first
time anyone admitted it. It’s not like they issued press releases
saying they’re junkies and alcoholic pillheads. I don’t think that was
a big highlight in 2001 when they were getting duocash minted either.
Oh ps, give us 2 million we’re drug addicts. Nobody said that until it
all went down and then mindvox came back online. duocash is still
sitting there, so is ibex so is pix but I think all the companies died
when dot com did.
I’m not stupid, I’m over 18, I don’t start fights here, I find all of
this interesting. When people ask dumb technical questions I answer
them when i can in email. What’s wrong with that? I don’t feel like I
have to hide like so many others are or am not allowed to say
something.
I agree with what you said about voting but I’m not sure its a good way
to get bush out of office. I don’t know about that at all which is why
I asked. The vox list is having the same conversation, so I asked here.
.:vector:.
— Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I’m surprised by that mail. It must be the first time I’ve seen
anyone
posting for ages and then saying they are not an addict, have never
used
etc. and have been interested enough to read and communicate and stay
connected to a site that revolves round addiction and cures etc.
About voting, perhaps if everyone voted for what they believed in
instead of
trying to guess the results from their vote it would be a more honest
outcome and you never know perhaps some of the minority parties would
start
looking pretty hopefull. Kind of like the sheep sort of thing. Once
some
are brave enough to do it and it shows a positive others will
follow.???
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 4:30:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Impeachment, maybe Monica L.can help .
http://www.motherearth.org/USboycott/index_en.php
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: zondag 23 maart 2003 9:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Curtis I think you get carried away sometimes or are more honest then
most people and say what youre feeling instead of trying to hide it
like most.
Patrick you surprised the crap out of but reading back all you’ve
written I don’t know why. You do have the whole darth vader and obi wan
kenobi all wrapped up in one person going on. So when darth vader comes
out 5 times in a row, it always shocks me to remember that obiwan is in
there too.
Of course as I’ve learnt in philosophy class, obiwan’s hubris is what
made darth vader possible in the first place, so it’s all the same
thing 😉
The very last thing Curtis asks is something I am wondering about too.
I like this list, I like the people on it a lot, I don’t exactly take
it as a guide to life I signed up here a long time ago and stayed to
learn more, not because i’m a drug addict. I’ve never been a drug
addict but that’s beside the point.
What are we doing now? I like the Greens too but I’m losing track of
why voting for any of my candidates is going to do anything worthwhile
because none of them will ever win.
A vote for anything against bush? The dems it is?
I don’t know but this one i’m thinking about alot too. Opinions please.
Why is casting my vote for a candidate I believe in who I know can’t
win, better then voting against bush and for the democrats?
.:vector:.
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
What I’m still not sure about and I do not mean to turn the ibogaine
list into the war talk because all the lists are now the war talk but
what’s next? The most important thing I think is getting these
criminals
out of office in 2004. Here I have to agree with Randy and I’m trying
to understand for myself am I just afraid and going with my fear by
voting
against someone? Or do I vote for who I think is best. Because the
greens,
medical marijuana, libertarians, none of them have any chance. It’s
either the dems or Bushco. I am once more with patrick here and think
that drug users are the “last tribe of niggers on the planet” and
nothing
was any better any clinton, things were worse. So what I’m trying to
know is, where do we go from here and how do we get rid of Bushco
while
being true to your beliefs?
No matter how much I think about it I am back to agreeing with Randy
that my vote will be cast against Bush and for anything else. Because
I do not see anything worse possible then another 4 years of him.
There
won’t be anything left at all.
Peace out and love to all,
Curtis
__________________________________________________
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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 4:25:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m surprised by that mail. It must be the first time I’ve seen anyone
posting for ages and then saying they are not an addict, have never used
etc. and have been interested enough to read and communicate and stay
connected to a site that revolves round addiction and cures etc.
About voting, perhaps if everyone voted for what they believed in instead of
trying to guess the results from their vote it would be a more honest
outcome and you never know perhaps some of the minority parties would start
looking pretty hopefull. Kind of like the sheep sort of thing. Once some
are brave enough to do it and it shows a positive others will follow.???
Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Curtis I think you get carried away sometimes or are more honest then
most people and say what youre feeling instead of trying to hide it
like most.
Patrick you surprised the crap out of but reading back all you’ve
written I don’t know why. You do have the whole darth vader and obi wan
kenobi all wrapped up in one person going on. So when darth vader comes
out 5 times in a row, it always shocks me to remember that obiwan is in
there too.
Of course as I’ve learnt in philosophy class, obiwan’s hubris is what
made darth vader possible in the first place, so it’s all the same
thing 😉
The very last thing Curtis asks is something I am wondering about too.
I like this list, I like the people on it a lot, I don’t exactly take
it as a guide to life I signed up here a long time ago and stayed to
learn more, not because i’m a drug addict. I’ve never been a drug
addict but that’s beside the point.
What are we doing now? I like the Greens too but I’m losing track of
why voting for any of my candidates is going to do anything worthwhile
because none of them will ever win.
A vote for anything against bush? The dems it is?
I don’t know but this one i’m thinking about alot too. Opinions please.
Why is casting my vote for a candidate I believe in who I know can’t
win, better then voting against bush and for the democrats?
.:vector:.
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
What I’m still not sure about and I do not mean to turn the ibogaine
list into the war talk because all the lists are now the war talk but
what’s next? The most important thing I think is getting these
criminals
out of office in 2004. Here I have to agree with Randy and I’m trying
to understand for myself am I just afraid and going with my fear by
voting
against someone? Or do I vote for who I think is best. Because the
greens,
medical marijuana, libertarians, none of them have any chance. It’s
either the dems or Bushco. I am once more with patrick here and think
that drug users are the “last tribe of niggers on the planet” and
nothing
was any better any clinton, things were worse. So what I’m trying to
know is, where do we go from here and how do we get rid of Bushco
while
being true to your beliefs?
No matter how much I think about it I am back to agreeing with Randy
that my vote will be cast against Bush and for anything else. Because
I do not see anything worse possible then another 4 years of him.
There
won’t be anything left at all.
Peace out and love to all,
Curtis
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thank you, President Bush
Date: March 23, 2003 at 4:12:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’ve been reading all the posts for the last few weeks and putting a lot of
thought into the opinions written and whats happening. I know most of you
here will probably disagree with me but the thought of what a leader such as
Sadam can do if given free rein frightens me no end. I have to agree with
the general opinion about President Bush, Personally I think he is quite
thick and certainly not fit to be making descisions or to be president.
However, on the other hand I consider Sadam Huessain a madman akin to
Hitler, besotted with power and egotism. Over the years he has watched his
people suffer and done nothing to help them. His main care revolves around
himself and his close friends etc. The amount of propaganda on both sides
of the equation is unbelievable. Both sides have a lot to answer to. Not
just the Americans. I also wonder if all the arguments and split views of
the Wastern World are not part of the bigger picture or plan of Sadam etc.
to create more chaos. I wouldn’t wish for war at all if there was a
possible solution, but what is the solution for everyone who is protesting.
How can you mediate with someone who doesn’t want to mediate and is not at
all interested in compromise, especially when this issue has been going on
for years now. What would you do to resolve this conflict if you had the
power and ability to decide.?? Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 2:08 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Thank you, President Bush
Thank you, President Bush
From the world’s most popular novelist, Paulo Coelho, an open letter
of praise for President Bush.
Thank you, great leader George W. Bush.
Thank you for showing everyone what a danger Saddam Hussein
represents. Many of us might otherwise have forgotten that he used
chemical weapons against his own people, against the Kurds and against
the Iranians. Hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator and one of the
clearest expressions of evil in today’s world. But this is not my only
reason for thanking you. During the first two months of 2003, you have
shown the world a great many other important things and, therefore,
deserve my gratitude.
So, remembering a poem I learned as a child, I want to say thank you.
Thank you for showing everyone that the Turkish people and their
parliament are not for sale, not even for 26 billion dollars.
Thank you for revealing to the world the gulf that exists between the
decisions made by those in power and the wishes of the people.
Thank you for making it clear that neither José María Aznar nor Tony
Blair give the slightest weight to or show the slightest respect for
the votes they received. Aznar is perfectly capable of ignoring the
fact that 90% of Spaniards are against the war, and Blair is unmoved by
the largest public demonstration to take place in England in the last
thirty years.
Thank you for making it necessary for Tony Blair to go to the British
parliament with a fabricated dossier written by a student ten years
ago, and present this as ‘damning evidence collected by the British
Secret Service’.
Thank you for allowing Colin Powell to make a complete fool of himself
by showing the UN Security Council photos which, one week later, were
publicly challenged by Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector in Iraq.
Thank you for adopting your current position and thus ensuring that,
at the plenary session, the French foreign minister, Dominique de
Villepin’s anti-war speech was greeted with applause – something, as
far as I know, that has only happened once before in the history of the
UN, following a speech by Nelson Mandela.
Thank you too, because, after all your efforts to promote war, the
normally divided Arab nations were, for the first time, at their
meeting in Cairo during the last week in February, unanimous in their
condemnation of any invasion.
Thank you for your rhetoric stating that ‘the UN now has a chance to
demonstrate its relevance’, a statement which made even the most
reluctant countries take up a position opposing any attack on Iraq.
Thank you for your foreign policy which provoked the British foreign
secretary, Jack Straw, into declaring that in the 21st century, ‘a war
can have a moral justification’, thus causing him to lose all
credibility.
Thank you for trying to divide a Europe that is currently struggling
for unification; this was a warning that will not go unheeded.
Thank you for having achieved something that very few have so far
managed to do in this century: the bringing together of millions of
people on all continents to fight for the same idea, even though that
idea is opposed to yours.
Thank you for making us feel once more that though our words may not
be heard, they are at least spoken – this will make us stronger in the
future.
Thank you for ignoring us, for marginalising all those who oppose your
decision, because the future of the Earth belongs to the excluded.
Thank you, because, without you, we would not have realised our own
ability to mobilise. It may serve no purpose this time, but it will
doubtless be useful later on.
Now that there seems no way of silencing the drums of war, I would
like to say, as an ancient European king said to an invader: ‘May your
morning be a beautiful one, may the sun shine on your soldiers’ armour,
for in the afternoon, I will defeat you.’
Thank you for allowing us – an army of anonymous people filling the
streets in an attempt to stop a process that is already underway – to
know what it feels like to be powerless and to learn to grapple with
that feeling and transform it.
So, enjoy your morning and whatever glory it may yet bring you.
Thank you for not listening to us and not taking us seriously, but
know that we are listening to you and that we will not forget your
words.
Thank you, great leader George W. Bush.
Thank you very much.
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 23, 2003 at 3:18:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Curtis I think you get carried away sometimes or are more honest then
most people and say what youre feeling instead of trying to hide it
like most.
Patrick you surprised the crap out of but reading back all you’ve
written I don’t know why. You do have the whole darth vader and obi wan
kenobi all wrapped up in one person going on. So when darth vader comes
out 5 times in a row, it always shocks me to remember that obiwan is in
there too.
Of course as I’ve learnt in philosophy class, obiwan’s hubris is what
made darth vader possible in the first place, so it’s all the same
thing 😉
The very last thing Curtis asks is something I am wondering about too.
I like this list, I like the people on it a lot, I don’t exactly take
it as a guide to life I signed up here a long time ago and stayed to
learn more, not because i’m a drug addict. I’ve never been a drug
addict but that’s beside the point.
What are we doing now? I like the Greens too but I’m losing track of
why voting for any of my candidates is going to do anything worthwhile
because none of them will ever win.
A vote for anything against bush? The dems it is?
I don’t know but this one i’m thinking about alot too. Opinions please.
Why is casting my vote for a candidate I believe in who I know can’t
win, better then voting against bush and for the democrats?
.:vector:.
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
What I’m still not sure about and I do not mean to turn the ibogaine
list into the war talk because all the lists are now the war talk but
what’s next? The most important thing I think is getting these
criminals
out of office in 2004. Here I have to agree with Randy and I’m trying
to understand for myself am I just afraid and going with my fear by
voting
against someone? Or do I vote for who I think is best. Because the
greens,
medical marijuana, libertarians, none of them have any chance. It’s
either the dems or Bushco. I am once more with patrick here and think
that drug users are the “last tribe of niggers on the planet” and
nothing
was any better any clinton, things were worse. So what I’m trying to
know is, where do we go from here and how do we get rid of Bushco
while
being true to your beliefs?
No matter how much I think about it I am back to agreeing with Randy
that my vote will be cast against Bush and for anything else. Because
I do not see anything worse possible then another 4 years of him.
There
won’t be anything left at all.
Peace out and love to all,
Curtis
__________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] This pretty Much sums it up
Date: March 22, 2003 at 10:46:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
note the signatures at bottom of this bold statement:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
__________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 22, 2003 at 10:38:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The idea of ‘supporting the troops’ is the giving of your moral sanction.
The soldiers have executive sanction (the President) and political sanction
(Congress), but the moral sanction of the individual citizen is only given
when you say ‘I support the troops’.
If you don’t sanction the war you can’t sanction the troops. Its that
simple. I understand if individuals wish their fellow Americans who are
soldiers ‘Godspeed and good luck, may you be safe’. That is reasonable and I
think universal sentiment for all Americans. No American wishes them any
harm.
“I support and pray for the troops to return home safe [as in, like yesterday],
without blood to wash from their hands or lifelong tormenting
dreams/subconscience.”
I lost a close friend in the Gulf War, who died of mysterious circumstances
shortly after he returned to the base in Germany where he was stationed. He was
22 years old. These sentiments of mine are not anonymous thoughts to unknown
faces in the armed forces.
I also understand that soldiers are working out their own destiny, aside from
the plans of the military elite. Perhaps they have been sufficiently
brainwashed to believe 100% in killing, or perhaps they chose to experience
what it means to be a soldier, and work out that karma. I must have already
done so, because uniforms, weapons and battle make every cell in my body
squirm.
-gamma
__________________________________________________
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 22, 2003 at 10:24:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc, thanks for this bro. That was a very well thought message and thinking
about what you said here has made me realize that I will not stop protesting
or going to demonstrations. No matter how bad it is that our troops are
there and I pray for every one of them to come back I can’t turn away
from what I feel is right and ignore the situation now that the war has
started. Thank you again bro, if I go off sometimes I do apologise to
you and anyone else, I only say what I feel at the time. Whatever the
differences anyone has I think that you are a very smart person who does
have good intentions.
I am with Preston here well said Marc. Thanks bro.
Sara thank you 🙂 But I not some exception. Americans are not bad people
who do not care. I only think that somehow the goverment we have is not
representing us. Or maybe I am very isolated? I don’t know anyone who
took a vote and thought that going and starting a war with Iraq was this
good idea and we should do that. Everyone I know is disgusted and I am
starting to feel like a Jew in Nazi Germany.
Marko I understand how you feel bro. Think how I feel. I live here and
I am one of those Americans that the rest of the whole world is starting
to hate. 🙁
Patrick and Dave and what Sandy wrote. Thanks for this the most. I most
of all did not except this either Patrick, I’d except kill them all and
fuck everybody from you 😉 What I’m trying to learn a little is that
I want some of what you and Dave have. I understand you are both artists
in different ways, words and painting and you connect yourself to spirit
like that. But I am very curious bro, I have read everything you wrote
and your addiction series is tremendous bro but its not really the whole
truth. What blew me away more then anything are the godhead navigation
manuals that aren’t anywhere. You must put that into your book not just
naked lunch please. What I want to understand is what do you do? How
do you connect yourself to where you go? The lost ark writing is completely
out there bro its like psychology using photoshop filters but how do
you connect??? You’re a real budhist priest, you are a high priest in
the ibogaine religion you and Marko do but I always forget that you are
serious. Because you never talk about any of that. Ever. Do you meditate,
do you just write and that connects you. How do you get that much strength
to be in center when you are obviously pulled in so many directions all
the time. How do get that? Or is that just you? I do not think you had
this for 15 years of saying fuck you to the secret service 🙂 But you
withstood that too. You are a amazing mess of a good person Patrick :-
)
I from my heart want to thank all here. I very much hope to meet all
of you at one of the gatherings 🙂
What I’m still not sure about and I do not mean to turn the ibogaine
list into the war talk because all the lists are now the war talk but
what’s next? The most important thing I think is getting these criminals
out of office in 2004. Here I have to agree with Randy and I’m trying
to understand for myself am I just afraid and going with my fear by voting
against someone? Or do I vote for who I think is best. Because the greens,
medical marijuana, libertarians, none of them have any chance. It’s
either the dems or Bushco. I am once more with patrick here and think
that drug users are the “last tribe of niggers on the planet” and nothing
was any better any clinton, things were worse. So what I’m trying to
know is, where do we go from here and how do we get rid of Bushco while
being true to your beliefs?
No matter how much I think about it I am back to agreeing with Randy
that my vote will be cast against Bush and for anything else. Because
I do not see anything worse possible then another 4 years of him. There
won’t be anything left at all.
Peace out and love to all,
Curtis
On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:49:09 -0800 preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Marc wrote> If you don’t sanction the war you can’t sanction the
troops. Its
that
simple. I understand if individuals wish their fellow Americans
who are
soldiers ‘Godspeed and good luck, may you be safe’. That is reasonable
and I
think universal sentiment for all Americans. No American wishes
them any
harm.
But sanctioning the killing that US forces are committing is personally
approving violence to deal with this situation. If you ‘support
the troops’,
you are giving your personal, individual, clear and unequivocal
moral
authority to kill ‘the enemy’ on YOUR personal behalf. Thats is
what
‘supporting the troops’ means. Its not to be taken lightly. If you
do
support the troops then, you are fully behind the war, the war effort
and
the actions of the US military and its commander-in-chief, President
G. W.
Bush. If you are against the war, if you are a pacifist, if you
protested
the war up to its initiation, then you must think about how you
can protest
war as ‘morally wrong’ on one day, but ‘morally legitimate’ the
next.<
to which I simply reply:
WELL SAID MARC!
Support peace.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Its important to remember the rhetoric gets very heated in wars
between
friends.
Thats just the way it is. Its important to remember the decision
for war was
not made by any of us, so its important to remember were all friends
here.
When the fighting is over, which will be shortly, the heatedness
of these
discussions will be lowered and that will be good and reassuring.
The idea of ‘supporting the troops’ is the giving of your moral
sanction.
The soldiers have executive sanction (the President) and political
sanction
(Congress), but the moral sanction of the individual citizen is
only given
when you say ‘I support the troops’.
If you don’t sanction the war you can’t sanction the troops. Its
that
simple. I understand if individuals wish their fellow Americans
who are
soldiers ‘Godspeed and good luck, may you be safe’. That is reasonable
and I
think universal sentiment for all Americans. No American wishes
them any
harm.
But sanctioning the killing that US forces are committing is personally
approving violence to deal with this situation. If you ‘support
the troops’,
you are giving your personal, individual, clear and unequivocal
moral
authority to kill ‘the enemy’ on YOUR personal behalf. Thats is
what
‘supporting the troops’ means. Its not to be taken lightly. If you
do
support the troops then, you are fully behind the war, the war effort
and
the actions of the US military and its commander-in-chief, President
G. W.
Bush. If you are against the war, if you are a pacifist, if you
protested
the war up to its initiation, then you must think about how you
can protest
war as ‘morally wrong’ on one day, but ‘morally legitimate’ the
next.
Loyalty to the United States is loyalty to the best interests of
a free
people, to the Declaration and to the Constitution, to the cause
of
goodness. This does not limit you to ‘have to’ support the troops
simply
because the government has committed US soldiers to war. You, personally,
individually, still have the opportunity to give your personal, moral
seal
of approval – or not.
It is very difficult to be anti-war at a time when your nation through
its
government has committed to war, it takes courage, because you will
be
abused, heckled, ridiculed and punished for such a position is always
uncomfortable. It is easy to be patriotic if the punishment for
the being
pacifistic is influential.
Marc Emery
Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 3:54 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what next?
At 10:06 22.3.2003, you wrote:
— sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
You are a very special person Curtis, You care about people
and you
are
an American. you are one of a kind .
Sara
There’s a lot of us who feel the same way here in the US. We
are not all
money
grubbing war heads. But you know that.
Yes, we know that. There are good and bad people everywhere, in
every
country in the world. You are unlucky – a bad person is leading
your
country and you can’t do much about it… until vast majority
in the
country recognises this fact and change it.
But Curtis brings up good points… what do we do, where do we
stand?
watching
Bill Maher’s show tonight similar questions were posed, like…
do we
stop
protesting the war now it has begun, and rally behind the troops?
I, for one, support the troops, as they are just pawns in the
ugly game
of
war.
Exactly. Most of them are frightened, they don’t want to die.
But they
have
to go to war, otherwise the’re as good as death :-((
But I do not support BushCo’s war. I support and pray for the
troops to
return
home safe, without blood to wash from their hands or lifelong
tormenting
dreams/subconscience. Many veterans are treated like “us last
tribe of
niggers”
are after war, hundreds upon hundreds of gulf war veterans were
systematically
denied health care and were all told nothing was wrong with them,
yet
they
suffered health problems stemming from radiation poisoning from
all the
depleted uranium bombs used, the same bombs they are dropping
right now.
The
war machine just dropped more bombs in 24 hours than they did
in the
entire
gulf war, most of which are depleted uranium war heads. BushCo
is
planning on
cutting 15 billion from veteren funds, from the very people the
admin is
urging
all americans to support now. Will they be supported after the
war when
they
become sick from the fallout of OUR weapons of Mass Destruction?
<end
rant>
This time the scenario will certanly repeat.
Do we still demonstrate peacefully even the war has begun? That
is a
personal
decision, and, personally, I say yes. War is never good, not
before, not
during, not after. Is it ok to demonstrate before anyone is killed?
or
how
about after 5, 500, 5,000 or 50,000 innocents or soldiers die?
Can I look
into
my eyes in the mirror at the end of the day and know that I did
what I
could to
make a difference? Or did I submit to fear, and sleepwalk my
way thru the
turmoil? These are questions I ask myself.
The best way to act is through the hearth. Everyone knows the
best what
should do, but people seldom do what should be done. And every
time one
makes a wrong decision, when one does what shouldn’t be done,
one’s hearth
gets heavier.
In ancient Egypt they believed that Gods weighted hearth of deciesed;
they
placed the hearth on one side of scales, and a feather on another
side. If
hearth was heavier than feather then it belonged to a sinner and
he/she
was
refused to enter heavenly realms
There are messages like this circling here:
Boycott all US products the day they attack Iraq without UN approval!
We can boycott all US products, but you, being in the USA, can’t.
It is beyond me to order anyone to pick up a weapon and kill
another
human
being. For any reason. Terrorism is horrible, but it is a viscious
circle
at
this point.
I don’t think anyone who had IBO experience could order such a
thing!
I say protest, however you find it appropriatte.
We ARE protesting. But only you in the USA can make difference.
You know, the beginning of this war reminds me very much of how
WW2
started: Hitler dressed his soldiers into Polish uniforms and
they
attacked something in Germany, near Polish border. Then Germany
said they
were attacked, and invaded Poland…
Children are playing outside, enjoying a beautiful day. They dig
defense
ditch…
Dana, I’m not coming to the May IBO conference. I cannot go to
a country
which is in war and which started this war, it’s against my beliefs.
Maybe
next time, when war is over…
Marko
But onto Ibo, and a point someone made before… Ibo showed me
this
beautiful
realm, This eternal-spirit-realm life after this physical existance,
where we
all connect with the source, and all this shit we are experiencing
now is
just
an illusuion, a learning experience… ultimately that is my
peace of
mind,
knowing in the end that is what is really real. Like what PK
and I refer
to as
the Purple (well, that is one of the realms [out there] anyways.
The CIA has been quoted as saying: “the last great frontier to
conquer is
the
Human Mind”. DO NOT let those fuckers in!
But in the meantime… I have to eat and shit and pay the rent
and brush
my
tooth and thumb my nose in the general direction of BushCo and
the like.
peace, love and surf.
-gamma
__________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 22, 2003 at 9:49:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc wrote> If you don’t sanction the war you can’t sanction the troops. Its
that
simple. I understand if individuals wish their fellow Americans who are
soldiers ‘Godspeed and good luck, may you be safe’. That is reasonable and I
think universal sentiment for all Americans. No American wishes them any
harm.
But sanctioning the killing that US forces are committing is personally
approving violence to deal with this situation. If you ‘support the troops’,
you are giving your personal, individual, clear and unequivocal moral
authority to kill ‘the enemy’ on YOUR personal behalf. Thats is what
‘supporting the troops’ means. Its not to be taken lightly. If you do
support the troops then, you are fully behind the war, the war effort and
the actions of the US military and its commander-in-chief, President G. W.
Bush. If you are against the war, if you are a pacifist, if you protested
the war up to its initiation, then you must think about how you can protest
war as ‘morally wrong’ on one day, but ‘morally legitimate’ the next.<
to which I simply reply:
WELL SAID MARC!
Support peace.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Its important to remember the rhetoric gets very heated in wars between
friends.
Thats just the way it is. Its important to remember the decision for war was
not made by any of us, so its important to remember were all friends here.
When the fighting is over, which will be shortly, the heatedness of these
discussions will be lowered and that will be good and reassuring.
The idea of ‘supporting the troops’ is the giving of your moral sanction.
The soldiers have executive sanction (the President) and political sanction
(Congress), but the moral sanction of the individual citizen is only given
when you say ‘I support the troops’.
If you don’t sanction the war you can’t sanction the troops. Its that
simple. I understand if individuals wish their fellow Americans who are
soldiers ‘Godspeed and good luck, may you be safe’. That is reasonable and I
think universal sentiment for all Americans. No American wishes them any
harm.
But sanctioning the killing that US forces are committing is personally
approving violence to deal with this situation. If you ‘support the troops’,
you are giving your personal, individual, clear and unequivocal moral
authority to kill ‘the enemy’ on YOUR personal behalf. Thats is what
‘supporting the troops’ means. Its not to be taken lightly. If you do
support the troops then, you are fully behind the war, the war effort and
the actions of the US military and its commander-in-chief, President G. W.
Bush. If you are against the war, if you are a pacifist, if you protested
the war up to its initiation, then you must think about how you can protest
war as ‘morally wrong’ on one day, but ‘morally legitimate’ the next.
Loyalty to the United States is loyalty to the best interests of a free
people, to the Declaration and to the Constitution, to the cause of
goodness. This does not limit you to ‘have to’ support the troops simply
because the government has committed US soldiers to war. You, personally,
individually, still have the opportunity to give your personal, moral seal
of approval – or not.
It is very difficult to be anti-war at a time when your nation through its
government has committed to war, it takes courage, because you will be
abused, heckled, ridiculed and punished for such a position is always
uncomfortable. It is easy to be patriotic if the punishment for the being
pacifistic is influential.
Marc Emery
Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 3:54 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what next?
At 10:06 22.3.2003, you wrote:
— sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
You are a very special person Curtis, You care about people and you
are
an American. you are one of a kind .
Sara
There’s a lot of us who feel the same way here in the US. We are not all
money
grubbing war heads. But you know that.
Yes, we know that. There are good and bad people everywhere, in every
country in the world. You are unlucky – a bad person is leading your
country and you can’t do much about it… until vast majority in the
country recognises this fact and change it.
But Curtis brings up good points… what do we do, where do we stand?
watching
Bill Maher’s show tonight similar questions were posed, like… do we
stop
protesting the war now it has begun, and rally behind the troops?
I, for one, support the troops, as they are just pawns in the ugly game
of
war.
Exactly. Most of them are frightened, they don’t want to die. But they
have
to go to war, otherwise the’re as good as death :-((
But I do not support BushCo’s war. I support and pray for the troops to
return
home safe, without blood to wash from their hands or lifelong tormenting
dreams/subconscience. Many veterans are treated like “us last tribe of
niggers”
are after war, hundreds upon hundreds of gulf war veterans were
systematically
denied health care and were all told nothing was wrong with them, yet
they
suffered health problems stemming from radiation poisoning from all the
depleted uranium bombs used, the same bombs they are dropping right now.
The
war machine just dropped more bombs in 24 hours than they did in the
entire
gulf war, most of which are depleted uranium war heads. BushCo is
planning on
cutting 15 billion from veteren funds, from the very people the admin is
urging
all americans to support now. Will they be supported after the war when
they
become sick from the fallout of OUR weapons of Mass Destruction? <end
rant>
This time the scenario will certanly repeat.
Do we still demonstrate peacefully even the war has begun? That is a
personal
decision, and, personally, I say yes. War is never good, not before, not
during, not after. Is it ok to demonstrate before anyone is killed? or
how
about after 5, 500, 5,000 or 50,000 innocents or soldiers die? Can I look
into
my eyes in the mirror at the end of the day and know that I did what I
could to
make a difference? Or did I submit to fear, and sleepwalk my way thru the
turmoil? These are questions I ask myself.
The best way to act is through the hearth. Everyone knows the best what
should do, but people seldom do what should be done. And every time one
makes a wrong decision, when one does what shouldn’t be done, one’s hearth
gets heavier.
In ancient Egypt they believed that Gods weighted hearth of deciesed; they
placed the hearth on one side of scales, and a feather on another side. If
hearth was heavier than feather then it belonged to a sinner and he/she
was
refused to enter heavenly realms
There are messages like this circling here:
Boycott all US products the day they attack Iraq without UN approval!
We can boycott all US products, but you, being in the USA, can’t.
It is beyond me to order anyone to pick up a weapon and kill another
human
being. For any reason. Terrorism is horrible, but it is a viscious circle
at
this point.
I don’t think anyone who had IBO experience could order such a thing!
I say protest, however you find it appropriatte.
We ARE protesting. But only you in the USA can make difference.
You know, the beginning of this war reminds me very much of how WW2
started: Hitler dressed his soldiers into Polish uniforms and they
attacked something in Germany, near Polish border. Then Germany said they
were attacked, and invaded Poland…
Children are playing outside, enjoying a beautiful day. They dig defense
ditch…
Dana, I’m not coming to the May IBO conference. I cannot go to a country
which is in war and which started this war, it’s against my beliefs. Maybe
next time, when war is over…
Marko
But onto Ibo, and a point someone made before… Ibo showed me this
beautiful
realm, This eternal-spirit-realm life after this physical existance,
where we
all connect with the source, and all this shit we are experiencing now is
just
an illusuion, a learning experience… ultimately that is my peace of
mind,
knowing in the end that is what is really real. Like what PK and I refer
to as
the Purple (well, that is one of the realms [out there] anyways.
The CIA has been quoted as saying: “the last great frontier to conquer is
the
Human Mind”. DO NOT let those fuckers in!
But in the meantime… I have to eat and shit and pay the rent and brush
my
tooth and thumb my nose in the general direction of BushCo and the like.
peace, love and surf.
-gamma
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] The ‘Supporting the Troops’ paradign
Date: March 22, 2003 at 7:03:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Its important to remember the rhetoric gets very heated in wars between
friends.
Thats just the way it is. Its important to remember the decision for war was
not made by any of us, so its important to remember were all friends here.
When the fighting is over, which will be shortly, the heatedness of these
discussions will be lowered and that will be good and reassuring.
The idea of ‘supporting the troops’ is the giving of your moral sanction.
The soldiers have executive sanction (the President) and political sanction
(Congress), but the moral sanction of the individual citizen is only given
when you say ‘I support the troops’.
If you don’t sanction the war you can’t sanction the troops. Its that
simple. I understand if individuals wish their fellow Americans who are
soldiers ‘Godspeed and good luck, may you be safe’. That is reasonable and I
think universal sentiment for all Americans. No American wishes them any
harm.
But sanctioning the killing that US forces are committing is personally
approving violence to deal with this situation. If you ‘support the troops’,
you are giving your personal, individual, clear and unequivocal moral
authority to kill ‘the enemy’ on YOUR personal behalf. Thats is what
‘supporting the troops’ means. Its not to be taken lightly. If you do
support the troops then, you are fully behind the war, the war effort and
the actions of the US military and its commander-in-chief, President G. W.
Bush. If you are against the war, if you are a pacifist, if you protested
the war up to its initiation, then you must think about how you can protest
war as ‘morally wrong’ on one day, but ‘morally legitimate’ the next.
Loyalty to the United States is loyalty to the best interests of a free
people, to the Declaration and to the Constitution, to the cause of
goodness. This does not limit you to ‘have to’ support the troops simply
because the government has committed US soldiers to war. You, personally,
individually, still have the opportunity to give your personal, moral seal
of approval – or not.
It is very difficult to be anti-war at a time when your nation through its
government has committed to war, it takes courage, because you will be
abused, heckled, ridiculed and punished for such a position is always
uncomfortable. It is easy to be patriotic if the punishment for the being
pacifistic is influential.
Marc Emery
Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 3:54 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what next?
At 10:06 22.3.2003, you wrote:
— sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
You are a very special person Curtis, You care about people and you
are
an American. you are one of a kind .
Sara
There’s a lot of us who feel the same way here in the US. We are not all
money
grubbing war heads. But you know that.
Yes, we know that. There are good and bad people everywhere, in every
country in the world. You are unlucky – a bad person is leading your
country and you can’t do much about it… until vast majority in the
country recognises this fact and change it.
But Curtis brings up good points… what do we do, where do we stand?
watching
Bill Maher’s show tonight similar questions were posed, like… do we
stop
protesting the war now it has begun, and rally behind the troops?
I, for one, support the troops, as they are just pawns in the ugly game
of
war.
Exactly. Most of them are frightened, they don’t want to die. But they
have
to go to war, otherwise the’re as good as death :-((
But I do not support BushCo’s war. I support and pray for the troops to
return
home safe, without blood to wash from their hands or lifelong tormenting
dreams/subconscience. Many veterans are treated like “us last tribe of
niggers”
are after war, hundreds upon hundreds of gulf war veterans were
systematically
denied health care and were all told nothing was wrong with them, yet
they
suffered health problems stemming from radiation poisoning from all the
depleted uranium bombs used, the same bombs they are dropping right now.
The
war machine just dropped more bombs in 24 hours than they did in the
entire
gulf war, most of which are depleted uranium war heads. BushCo is
planning on
cutting 15 billion from veteren funds, from the very people the admin is
urging
all americans to support now. Will they be supported after the war when
they
become sick from the fallout of OUR weapons of Mass Destruction? <end
rant>
This time the scenario will certanly repeat.
Do we still demonstrate peacefully even the war has begun? That is a
personal
decision, and, personally, I say yes. War is never good, not before, not
during, not after. Is it ok to demonstrate before anyone is killed? or
how
about after 5, 500, 5,000 or 50,000 innocents or soldiers die? Can I look
into
my eyes in the mirror at the end of the day and know that I did what I
could to
make a difference? Or did I submit to fear, and sleepwalk my way thru the
turmoil? These are questions I ask myself.
The best way to act is through the hearth. Everyone knows the best what
should do, but people seldom do what should be done. And every time one
makes a wrong decision, when one does what shouldn’t be done, one’s hearth
gets heavier.
In ancient Egypt they believed that Gods weighted hearth of deciesed; they
placed the hearth on one side of scales, and a feather on another side. If
hearth was heavier than feather then it belonged to a sinner and he/she
was
refused to enter heavenly realms
There are messages like this circling here:
Boycott all US products the day they attack Iraq without UN approval!
We can boycott all US products, but you, being in the USA, can’t.
It is beyond me to order anyone to pick up a weapon and kill another
human
being. For any reason. Terrorism is horrible, but it is a viscious circle
at
this point.
I don’t think anyone who had IBO experience could order such a thing!
I say protest, however you find it appropriatte.
We ARE protesting. But only you in the USA can make difference.
You know, the beginning of this war reminds me very much of how WW2
started: Hitler dressed his soldiers into Polish uniforms and they
attacked something in Germany, near Polish border. Then Germany said they
were attacked, and invaded Poland…
Children are playing outside, enjoying a beautiful day. They dig defense
ditch…
Dana, I’m not coming to the May IBO conference. I cannot go to a country
which is in war and which started this war, it’s against my beliefs. Maybe
next time, when war is over…
Marko
But onto Ibo, and a point someone made before… Ibo showed me this
beautiful
realm, This eternal-spirit-realm life after this physical existance,
where we
all connect with the source, and all this shit we are experiencing now is
just
an illusuion, a learning experience… ultimately that is my peace of
mind,
knowing in the end that is what is really real. Like what PK and I refer
to as
the Purple (well, that is one of the realms [out there] anyways.
The CIA has been quoted as saying: “the last great frontier to conquer is
the
Human Mind”. DO NOT let those fuckers in!
But in the meantime… I have to eat and shit and pay the rent and brush
my
tooth and thumb my nose in the general direction of BushCo and the like.
peace, love and surf.
-gamma
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] Thank you, President Bush
Date: March 22, 2003 at 9:08:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you, President Bush
From the world’s most popular novelist, Paulo Coelho, an open letter
of praise for President Bush.
Thank you, great leader George W. Bush.
Thank you for showing everyone what a danger Saddam Hussein
represents. Many of us might otherwise have forgotten that he used
chemical weapons against his own people, against the Kurds and against
the Iranians. Hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator and one of the
clearest expressions of evil in today’s world. But this is not my only
reason for thanking you. During the first two months of 2003, you have
shown the world a great many other important things and, therefore,
deserve my gratitude.
So, remembering a poem I learned as a child, I want to say thank you.
Thank you for showing everyone that the Turkish people and their
parliament are not for sale, not even for 26 billion dollars.
Thank you for revealing to the world the gulf that exists between the
decisions made by those in power and the wishes of the people.
Thank you for making it clear that neither José María Aznar nor Tony
Blair give the slightest weight to or show the slightest respect for
the votes they received. Aznar is perfectly capable of ignoring the
fact that 90% of Spaniards are against the war, and Blair is unmoved by
the largest public demonstration to take place in England in the last
thirty years.
Thank you for making it necessary for Tony Blair to go to the British
parliament with a fabricated dossier written by a student ten years
ago, and present this as ‘damning evidence collected by the British
Secret Service’.
Thank you for allowing Colin Powell to make a complete fool of himself
by showing the UN Security Council photos which, one week later, were
publicly challenged by Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector in Iraq.
Thank you for adopting your current position and thus ensuring that,
at the plenary session, the French foreign minister, Dominique de
Villepin’s anti-war speech was greeted with applause – something, as
far as I know, that has only happened once before in the history of the
UN, following a speech by Nelson Mandela.
Thank you too, because, after all your efforts to promote war, the
normally divided Arab nations were, for the first time, at their
meeting in Cairo during the last week in February, unanimous in their
condemnation of any invasion.
Thank you for your rhetoric stating that ‘the UN now has a chance to
demonstrate its relevance’, a statement which made even the most
reluctant countries take up a position opposing any attack on Iraq.
Thank you for your foreign policy which provoked the British foreign
secretary, Jack Straw, into declaring that in the 21st century, ‘a war
can have a moral justification’, thus causing him to lose all
credibility.
Thank you for trying to divide a Europe that is currently struggling
for unification; this was a warning that will not go unheeded.
Thank you for having achieved something that very few have so far
managed to do in this century: the bringing together of millions of
people on all continents to fight for the same idea, even though that
idea is opposed to yours.
Thank you for making us feel once more that though our words may not
be heard, they are at least spoken – this will make us stronger in the
future.
Thank you for ignoring us, for marginalising all those who oppose your
decision, because the future of the Earth belongs to the excluded.
Thank you, because, without you, we would not have realised our own
ability to mobilise. It may serve no purpose this time, but it will
doubtless be useful later on.
Now that there seems no way of silencing the drums of war, I would
like to say, as an ancient European king said to an invader: ‘May your
morning be a beautiful one, may the sun shine on your soldiers’ armour,
for in the afternoon, I will defeat you.’
Thank you for allowing us – an army of anonymous people filling the
streets in an attempt to stop a process that is already underway – to
know what it feels like to be powerless and to learn to grapple with
that feeling and transform it.
So, enjoy your morning and whatever glory it may yet bring you.
Thank you for not listening to us and not taking us seriously, but
know that we are listening to you and that we will not forget your
words.
Thank you, great leader George W. Bush.
Thank you very much.
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 22, 2003 at 6:54:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
At 10:06 22.3.2003, you wrote:
— sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> You are a very special person Curtis, You care about people and you are
> an American. you are one of a kind .
>
> Sara
There’s a lot of us who feel the same way here in the US. We are not all money
grubbing war heads. But you know that.
Yes, we know that. There are good and bad people everywhere, in every country in the world. You are unlucky – a bad person is leading your country and you can’t do much about it… until vast majority in the country recognises this fact and change it.
But Curtis brings up good points… what do we do, where do we stand? watching
Bill Maher’s show tonight similar questions were posed, like… do we stop
protesting the war now it has begun, and rally behind the troops?
I, for one, support the troops, as they are just pawns in the ugly game of war.
Exactly. Most of them are frightened, they don’t want to die. But they have to go to war, otherwise the’re as good as death :-((
But I do not support BushCo’s war. I support and pray for the troops to return
home safe, without blood to wash from their hands or lifelong tormenting
dreams/subconscience. Many veterans are treated like “us last tribe of niggers”
are after war, hundreds upon hundreds of gulf war veterans were systematically
denied health care and were all told nothing was wrong with them, yet they
suffered health problems stemming from radiation poisoning from all the
depleted uranium bombs used, the same bombs they are dropping right now. The
war machine just dropped more bombs in 24 hours than they did in the entire
gulf war, most of which are depleted uranium war heads. BushCo is planning on
cutting 15 billion from veteren funds, from the very people the admin is urging
all americans to support now. Will they be supported after the war when they
become sick from the fallout of OUR weapons of Mass Destruction? <end rant>
This time the scenario will certanly repeat.
Do we still demonstrate peacefully even the war has begun? That is a personal
decision, and, personally, I say yes. War is never good, not before, not
during, not after. Is it ok to demonstrate before anyone is killed? or how
about after 5, 500, 5,000 or 50,000 innocents or soldiers die? Can I look into
my eyes in the mirror at the end of the day and know that I did what I could to
make a difference? Or did I submit to fear, and sleepwalk my way thru the
turmoil? These are questions I ask myself.
The best way to act is through the hearth. Everyone knows the best what should do, but people seldom do what should be done. And every time one makes a wrong decision, when one does what shouldn’t be done, one’s hearth gets heavier.
In ancient Egypt they believed that Gods weighted hearth of deciesed; they placed the hearth on one side of scales, and a feather on another side. If hearth was heavier than feather then it belonged to a sinner and he/she was refused to enter heavenly realms
There are messages like this circling here:
Boycott all US products the day they attack Iraq without UN approval!
We can boycott all US products, but you, being in the USA, can’t.
It is beyond me to order anyone to pick up a weapon and kill another human
being. For any reason. Terrorism is horrible, but it is a viscious circle at
this point.
I don’t think anyone who had IBO experience could order such a thing!
I say protest, however you find it appropriatte.
We ARE protesting. But only you in the USA can make difference.
You know, the beginning of this war reminds me very much of how WW2 started: Hitler dressed his soldiers into Polish uniforms and they attacked something in Germany, near Polish border. Then Germany said they were attacked, and invaded Poland…
Children are playing outside, enjoying a beautiful day. They dig defense ditch…
Dana, I’m not coming to the May IBO conference. I cannot go to a country which is in war and which started this war, it’s against my beliefs. Maybe next time, when war is over…
Marko
But onto Ibo, and a point someone made before… Ibo showed me this beautiful
realm, This eternal-spirit-realm life after this physical existance, where we
all connect with the source, and all this shit we are experiencing now is just
an illusuion, a learning experience… ultimately that is my peace of mind,
knowing in the end that is what is really real. Like what PK and I refer to as
the Purple (well, that is one of the realms [out there] anyways.
The CIA has been quoted as saying: “the last great frontier to conquer is the
Human Mind”. DO NOT let those fuckers in!
But in the meantime… I have to eat and shit and pay the rent and brush my
tooth and thumb my nose in the general direction of BushCo and the like.
peace, love and surf.
-gamma
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 22, 2003 at 4:06:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
You are a very special person Curtis, You care about people and you are
an American. you are one of a kind .
Sara
There’s a lot of us who feel the same way here in the US. We are not all money
grubbing war heads. But you know that.
But Curtis brings up good points… what do we do, where do we stand? watching
Bill Maher’s show tonight similar questions were posed, like… do we stop
protesting the war now it has begun, and rally behind the troops?
I, for one, support the troops, as they are just pawns in the ugly game of war.
But I do not support BushCo’s war. I support and pray for the troops to return
home safe, without blood to wash from their hands or lifelong tormenting
dreams/subconscience. Many veterans are treated like “us last tribe of niggers”
are after war, hundreds upon hundreds of gulf war veterans were systematically
denied health care and were all told nothing was wrong with them, yet they
suffered health problems stemming from radiation poisoning from all the
depleted uranium bombs used, the same bombs they are dropping right now. The
war machine just dropped more bombs in 24 hours than they did in the entire
gulf war, most of which are depleted uranium war heads. BushCo is planning on
cutting 15 billion from veteren funds, from the very people the admin is urging
all americans to support now. Will they be supported after the war when they
become sick from the fallout of OUR weapons of Mass Destruction? <end rant>
Do we still demonstrate peacefully even the war has begun? That is a personal
decision, and, personally, I say yes. War is never good, not before, not
during, not after. Is it ok to demonstrate before anyone is killed? or how
about after 5, 500, 5,000 or 50,000 innocents or soldiers die? Can I look into
my eyes in the mirror at the end of the day and know that I did what I could to
make a difference? Or did I submit to fear, and sleepwalk my way thru the
turmoil? These are questions I ask myself.
It is beyond me to order anyone to pick up a weapon and kill another human
being. For any reason. Terrorism is horrible, but it is a viscious circle at
this point.
I say protest, however you find it appropriatte.
But onto Ibo, and a point someone made before… Ibo showed me this beautiful
realm, This eternal-spirit-realm life after this physical existance, where we
all connect with the source, and all this shit we are experiencing now is just
an illusuion, a learning experience… ultimately that is my peace of mind,
knowing in the end that is what is really real. Like what PK and I refer to as
the Purple (well, that is one of the realms [out there] anyways.
The CIA has been quoted as saying: “the last great frontier to conquer is the
Human Mind”. DO NOT let those fuckers in!
But in the meantime… I have to eat and shit and pay the rent and brush my
tooth and thumb my nose in the general direction of BushCo and the like.
peace, love and surf.
-gamma
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 22, 2003 at 2:25:18 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You are a very special person Curtis, You care about people and you are
an American. you are one of a kind .
Sara
—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: vrijdag 21 maart 2003 22:24
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Thanks for this Sandy and thanks to you Patrick, much love bro. I
sometimes
forget that you really believe in the lights, I do not mean that I
don’t,
I do, but not like I can directly use them to stay clean or something
like you do. I think aside from being a little overwrought about things,
I forgot what some here reminded me. It is all a play or movie, I was
very upset though because I am an american, I do care about people and
where I live and what’s happened here in the last days is very not good.
I still don’t know which way to go, are demonstrations worth it, do I
vote against someone or for someone, but the shock has passed and I’ve
calmed down. I just can’t believe how far downhill we’ve gone in only
a little more then 2 years. Everything that’s happening is awful.
I think what I mean is I was looking at the TV and thinking shit the
world is ending, while some of you are looking inside and going, no it’s
not. Maybe I need to work on that part more.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:54:57 -0800 booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<html><div style=’background-color:’><DIV>
<P>Hey Curtis – I know how you feel, but if you do happen to believe
in reincarnation then all of this is just a play we keep putting
on, rearranging the characters and keep trying to play it out with
more wisdom and maturity. If there really is a space like the
space I felt I visited on ibo – I’m convinced this earth trip is
really truly that old adage – “just school.” And we’re just
building imaginary block castles and then knocking them over
again. The wars, the pain, the suffering is all an illusion
altho it’s a pretty damn painful illusion at times. The
Australian Aborigines say – you can kill all the kangeroos, but
you can
never kill kangeroo-dreaming. So it’ll all be okay in the end…
whatever that is. Best and love, Sandy <BR></P>
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 4:43:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sandra,
Without any real science to go by – I don’t think it was the Valerian root that made me sweat. I think it had more to with the readjusting to being opiate free.
A semi funny tid bit: Years ago after one of my first detoxes (a non ibo detox, I have only done ibo once and have been clean since.) I would have the same experience with the valerian root. I was explaining to my friend how I took the valerian root to get some sleep. He thought I was saying that I took the valerian ROUTE to get to sleep and that that route must have been some abstract mental path. It was when I explained further, that the bottle said to take just one capsule but since I am Randolph I of course take two, that my friend understood.
Peace,
Randy
From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:42:20 -0800
>Second, Valerian root would knock me out, but only for a couple
hours. and
I would usually wake up in a pool of sweat.<
Randy, was it only the valerian that had this effect on you? I’m trying to figure out (based on your message) if the sweats were a product of the valerian itself or of an induced/forced sleep when as you say it may not have been needed?
Of course there may be any number of factors here…
Has anyone else on this list encountered the same?
I’m curious because I’m going to consult with a chinese herbalist who may be interested in developing some kind of herbal tincture to aid in both the period before the ibo and after. I’m looking for a combo which is non-contraindicated with Ibo, aids in relaxation and perhaps even helps with sleep. The process has not yet begun and I’d be interested to know what you all think and/or have tried.
Thanks,
Sandra
—– Original Message —–
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:43:11 -0800
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
> Hey Richard,
>
> Really glad to hear that things are working out for you. Welcome to the
> “otherside”. I didn’t sleep well for about three weeks after ibo. A few
> ideas: first, don’t plan on sleeping. You obviously don’t need to. If you
> try to sleep and can’t, it will become frustrating, one of those cyclical
> numbers. Are there any movies you can rent? I watched tons of movies while
> everyone else around was sleeping. I’m glad I did, because I am far to busy
> now to find the time to watch a movie.
>
> Second, Valerian root would knock me out, but only for a couple hours. and
> I would usually wake up in a pool of sweat.
>
> And…(take this advice with caution) medical MJ may be very appropriate for
> you right now. I used a lot of it in the begining. It helped distract me
> from my discomforts and desire to use dope. Over time I cut it back
> greatly. It may be okay for you to use it now, just try not to become a
> pothead.
>
> Again, congratulations!!
>
> Peace,
> Randy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
—
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 21, 2003 at 4:23:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for this Sandy and thanks to you Patrick, much love bro. I sometimes
forget that you really believe in the lights, I do not mean that I don’t,
I do, but not like I can directly use them to stay clean or something
like you do. I think aside from being a little overwrought about things,
I forgot what some here reminded me. It is all a play or movie, I was
very upset though because I am an american, I do care about people and
where I live and what’s happened here in the last days is very not good.
I still don’t know which way to go, are demonstrations worth it, do I
vote against someone or for someone, but the shock has passed and I’ve
calmed down. I just can’t believe how far downhill we’ve gone in only
a little more then 2 years. Everything that’s happening is awful.
I think what I mean is I was looking at the TV and thinking shit the
world is ending, while some of you are looking inside and going, no it’s
not. Maybe I need to work on that part more.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:54:57 -0800 booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
<html><div style=’background-color:’><DIV>
<P>Hey Curtis – I know how you feel, but if you do happen to believe
in reincarnation then all of this is just a play we keep putting
on, rearranging the characters and keep trying to play it out with
more wisdom and maturity. If there really is a space like the
space I felt I visited on ibo – I’m convinced this earth trip is
really truly that old adage – “just school.” And we’re just
building imaginary block castles and then knocking them over
again. The wars, the pain, the suffering is all an illusion
altho it’s a pretty damn painful illusion at times. The
Australian Aborigines say – you can kill all the kangeroos, but you can
never kill kangeroo-dreaming. So it’ll all be okay in the end…
whatever that is. Best and love, Sandy <BR></P>
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 4:16:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
FWIW same effect here when I tried valerian. I didn’t get a couple of
hours, I got 30 to 45 minutes and then woke up drenched with sweat.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:42:20 -0800 Sandra k <windforme@graffiti.net>
wrote:
Second, Valerian root would knock me out, but only for a couple
hours. and
I would usually wake up in a pool of sweat.<
Randy, was it only the valerian that had this effect on you? I’m
trying to figure out (based on your message) if the sweats were a
product of the valerian itself or of an induced/forced sleep when
as you say it may not have been needed?
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 4:15:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I remember the melatonin from the SF talks. That’s the one thing you,
Mash and Dana all mentioned and agreed on 😉
You were all right too bro, gets you a better buzz and helps you fall
asleep 🙂
I’m on 9mg a night. Started at 3 and went up from there. Going more then
9 doesnt have any effect I can see on me. But melatonin is great.
The doxyalamine is something you reminded me of that I forgot before
just now. That is like a weird piece of jail knowledge that comes up
and then everyone forgets it. In california they used to give it to you
if you were in withdrawal then they switched to something else which
doesnt work anymore and everyone noticed that. I learned about doxyalamine
at the needle exchange years ago and it does work bro 🙂 Helped me a
lot and so did pot like Randy said. Was not taking melatonin back then.
What helped the most was pot 🙂
Peace out,
Curtis
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:18:41 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 10:59:01AM -0500], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:
| provide you with a sedative. It is amazing how much better anyone
would feel
| getting some sleep after five days of not sleeping.
YeahYeahYeahYeah. Yup.
| not be rxd a sedative. Any sedative will do. It is amazing what
one night
| of sleep will do for your general well being.
For whut it’s worth, if you can’t sleep — and are trying to avoid
benzos
— something that usually works for me is sublingual melatonin.
None of
the herbal remedies, ever remedy much of anything in my case, and
5-HTP
duz nuthin’
Another over the counter thingie that actually does work is doxylamine
succinate. Most “sleep aids” are Benadryl (diphenhydramine) —
which,
also, unfortunately, does absolutely nothing, for me anyway — but
you can
still find doxylamine succinate in sum’ of ’em. I think the original
Unisom is doxy.
I have perpetual problems with sleeping. I’m manic-depressive and
cycle
very fast; making it to sleep before 4am is nearly impossible.
But if I
do 12-15mg sublingual melatonin mixed with 75-125mg doxylamine succinate,
it will usually knock me out (I’m 6’2″ 210lbs).
The melatonin I do every night, the doxy is sumthin’ to toss in
when
you’re still not going out. And yeah, I can relate. Not being
able to
sleep for days at a time, is incredibly annoying.
The melatonin I’d suggest using on a regular basis, it’s highly
cool and
works.
The doxy is something to toss into the mix when the melatonin isn’t
working by itself. It’s pretty interesting, because it’s the only
over-the-counter nonaddictive “sleep aid” that has ever worked for
me.
Ambien — and, basically, anything that’s not a benzo — also does
absolutely nothing for me.
Doxy appears to work for most of the other people I know who have
major
sleep problems — related to stepping off heroin, or just in general.
laters,
Patrick
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 3:42:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Second, Valerian root would knock me out, but only for a couple
hours. and
I would usually wake up in a pool of sweat.<
Randy, was it only the valerian that had this effect on you? I’m trying to figure out (based on your message) if the sweats were a product of the valerian itself or of an induced/forced sleep when as you say it may not have been needed?
Of course there may be any number of factors here…
Has anyone else on this list encountered the same?
I’m curious because I’m going to consult with a chinese herbalist who may be interested in developing some kind of herbal tincture to aid in both the period before the ibo and after. I’m looking for a combo which is non-contraindicated with Ibo, aids in relaxation and perhaps even helps with sleep. The process has not yet begun and I’d be interested to know what you all think and/or have tried.
Thanks,
Sandra
—– Original Message —–
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:43:11 -0800
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Hey Richard,
Really glad to hear that things are working out for you. Welcome to the
“otherside”. I didn’t sleep well for about three weeks after ibo. A few
ideas: first, don’t plan on sleeping. You obviously don’t need to. If you
try to sleep and can’t, it will become frustrating, one of those cyclical
numbers. Are there any movies you can rent? I watched tons of movies while
everyone else around was sleeping. I’m glad I did, because I am far to busy
now to find the time to watch a movie.
Second, Valerian root would knock me out, but only for a couple hours. and
I would usually wake up in a pool of sweat.
And…(take this advice with caution) medical MJ may be very appropriate for
you right now. I used a lot of it in the begining. It helped distract me
from my discomforts and desire to use dope. Over time I cut it back
greatly. It may be okay for you to use it now, just try not to become a
pothead.
Again, congratulations!!
Peace,
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Powered by Outblaze
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 2:43:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Richard,
Really glad to hear that things are working out for you. Welcome to the “otherside”. I didn’t sleep well for about three weeks after ibo. A few ideas: first, don’t plan on sleeping. You obviously don’t need to. If you try to sleep and can’t, it will become frustrating, one of those cyclical numbers. Are there any movies you can rent? I watched tons of movies while everyone else around was sleeping. I’m glad I did, because I am far to busy now to find the time to watch a movie.
Second, Valerian root would knock me out, but only for a couple hours. and I would usually wake up in a pool of sweat.
And…(take this advice with caution) medical MJ may be very appropriate for you right now. I used a lot of it in the begining. It helped distract me
from my discomforts and desire to use dope. Over time I cut it back
greatly. It may be okay for you to use it now, just try not to become a pothead.
Again, congratulations!!
Peace,
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 2:18:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On [Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 10:59:01AM -0500], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:
| provide you with a sedative. It is amazing how much better anyone would feel
| getting some sleep after five days of not sleeping.
YeahYeahYeahYeah. Yup.
| not be rxd a sedative. Any sedative will do. It is amazing what one night
| of sleep will do for your general well being.
For whut it’s worth, if you can’t sleep — and are trying to avoid benzos
— something that usually works for me is sublingual melatonin. None of
the herbal remedies, ever remedy much of anything in my case, and 5-HTP
duz nuthin’
Another over the counter thingie that actually does work is doxylamine
succinate. Most “sleep aids” are Benadryl (diphenhydramine) — which,
also, unfortunately, does absolutely nothing, for me anyway — but you can
still find doxylamine succinate in sum’ of ’em. I think the original
Unisom is doxy.
I have perpetual problems with sleeping. I’m manic-depressive and cycle
very fast; making it to sleep before 4am is nearly impossible. But if I
do 12-15mg sublingual melatonin mixed with 75-125mg doxylamine succinate,
it will usually knock me out (I’m 6’2″ 210lbs).
The melatonin I do every night, the doxy is sumthin’ to toss in when
you’re still not going out. And yeah, I can relate. Not being able to
sleep for days at a time, is incredibly annoying.
The melatonin I’d suggest using on a regular basis, it’s highly cool and
works.
The doxy is something to toss into the mix when the melatonin isn’t
working by itself. It’s pretty interesting, because it’s the only
over-the-counter nonaddictive “sleep aid” that has ever worked for me.
Ambien — and, basically, anything that’s not a benzo — also does
absolutely nothing for me.
Doxy appears to work for most of the other people I know who have major
sleep problems — related to stepping off heroin, or just in general.
laters,
Patrick
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 2:11:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On [Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 10:59:01AM -0500], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:
| provide you with a sedative. It is amazing how much better anyone would feel
| getting some sleep after five days of not sleeping.
YeahYeahYeahYeah. Yup.
| not be rxd a sedative. Any sedative will do. It is amazing what one night
| of sleep will do for your general well being.
For whut it’s worth, if you can’t sleep — and are trying to avoid benzos
— something that usually works for me is sublingual melatonin. None of
the herbal remedies, ever remedy much of anything in my case, and 5-HTP
duz nuthin’
Another over the counter thingie that actually does work is doxylamine
succinate. Most “sleep aids” are Benadryl (diphenhydramine) — which,
also, unfortunately, does absolutely nothing, for me anyway — but you can
still find doxylamine succinate in sum’ of ’em. I think the original
Unisom is doxy.
I have perpetual problems with sleeping. I’m manic-depressive and cycle
very fast; making it to sleep before 4am is nearly impossible. But if I
do 12-15mg sublingual melatonin mixed with 75-125mg doxylamine succinate, it
will usually knock me out (I’m 6’2″ 210lbs).
The melatonin I do every night, the doxy is sumthin’ to toss in when
you’re still not going out. And yeah, I can relate. Not being able to
sleep for days at a time, is incredibly annoying.
The melatonin I’d suggest using on a regular basis, it’s highly cool and
works.
The doxy is something to toss into the mix when the melatonin isn’t
working by itself. It’s pretty interesting, because it’s the only
over-the-counter nonaddictive “sleep aid” that has ever worked for me; and
it appears to work for most of the other people I know who have major
sleep problems — related to stepping off heroin, or just in general.
laters,
Patrick
From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 1:43:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
A good strong Valerian Root tincture or tea might prove quite helpful also…
—– Original Message —–
From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:28:15 -0800 (PST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
sedative
Also one might consider the herbal sleep aids, such as
lots of chamomile or kava, plus 5-HTP has been recommended
for sleep.
Bill Ross
—
_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net
Powered by Outblaze
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 11:58:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 3/21/03 11:28:22 AM, ross@cgl.ucsf.edu writes:
Also one might consider the herbal sleep aids, such as
lots of chamomile or kava, plus 5-HTP has been recommended
for sleep.
Hi Bill,
As I said, any sedative will do.
Thanks
Howard
From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 11:28:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
sedative
Also one might consider the herbal sleep aids, such as
lots of chamomile or kava, plus 5-HTP has been recommended
for sleep.
Bill Ross
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard/sleep
Date: March 21, 2003 at 10:59:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 3/20/03 9:15:03 PM, thebozman@compassmag.co.uk writes:
5 days in now and still not sleeping and if its too bright I’m still getting
very mild shifts in light and shadow – but its the complete fatigue in
my body that is hard ! Is this normal ?
Richard,
Your condition of not sleeping for 5 days in on the far end of the normal
spectrum. If you are still not sleeping I think that any doctor would
provide you with a sedative. It is amazing how much better anyone would feel
getting some sleep after five days of not sleeping.
Did you take purified ibogaine HCl or indra or other extract? And what dose?
If you feel at risk in taking a sedative that is of course your decision but,
in any other context of ethical medical care I cannot imagine that you would
not be rxd a sedative. Any sedative will do. It is amazing what one night
of sleep will do for your general well being.
Howard
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 21, 2003 at 9:58:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Richard,
5 days in now and still not sleeping and if its too
bright I’m still getting
very mild shifts in light and shadow – but its the
complete fatigue in my
body that is hard ! Is this normal ?
The fatigue is a leftover from the opiate addiction,
quite common. It either passes in time or additional
ibo will generally clear it sooner. The artifacts of
the ibo treatment you are having are quite common,
harmless, they will pass – note that some people have
reported them months later. One person I know was
treated (for dope/meth), went back to dope after
treatment then after jail (and guess what, he found
out he wasn’t addicted when withdrawal DID NOT HAPPEN,
he reported only one yucky day in jail) a couple
months later, reported the ibo coming on in Jail (once
he stopped using) to where he felt some “goodness” as
well as some visual artifacts.
The sleeplessness and brightness will pass, it is
harmless and quite common, so are a number of other
residual effects people sometimes have. I use to get
this phlegm production in my throat after a treatment
(lasted weeks/months) but now that I am not toxic it
doesn’t happen any longer – it is a symptom of
detoxing (as in toxins being expelled).
Drink lots of fluids, eat natural foods (no junk),
fruit, veggies, vitamins… If it persists (fatigue)
or you just want to get it overwith (in my experience
most people will need 2nd+ treatment anyway) and do a
2nd (2/3rds as much ballpark dose), or sometimes a
small dose like 1-1.5 gm of Indra will clear it. Wait
longer (bout a month) for the fuller dose, you can do
the smaller dose in a week or so if you are
uncomfortable. You sound good, do the “one day at a
time” thingie, heal, rest, ponder, do new stuff, don’t
do old “stuff” and listen to the other little voice
inside (or the fellow on the other shoulder if you
like…). However, whatever; as long as you follow the
yellow brick road, put one foot in front of the other,
get suggestions and listen to them… you will do just
fine. If you want to “use” that is OK to, it will only
cause you that much more pain and take that much
longer <g>… (some of us had to learn our lessons the
hard way). You now have a choice.
My sitter was brilliant and is with me until Monday
to help me plan my new
strategies for life.
As long as you “DO”, if you need to “DO” something
else (ie you tried 12 steps but it doesn’t work for
ya), then try something else – but don’t just sit
there looking for the IT to come to you. Again, sounds
like you are on the right track. Do some kind of
exercise, something spiritual, good nutrition, some
kind of therapy/treatment/dealing with addiction,
follow some basic common recovery sense (keep away
from people, places, things…) and GET OUT OF YOUR
OWN WAY, give it time, the ibo will work in you for
months after treatment. If you find yourself making
smoke in your head, STOP (as in sitting there spinning
your wheels in your head but going nowhere – you will
go somewhere alright…), do something else/change the
subject, pick up the phone, do some exercise,
SOMETHING… it is a dangerous place to be.
Please note that a re-treat/booster will be very
different than your first experience so long as you
are not using/addicted.
Brett
— thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Brett
Thanks for your words !!
5 days in now and still not sleeping and if its too
bright I’m still getting
very mild shifts in light and shadow – but its the
complete fatigue in my
body that is hard ! Is this normal ?
My sitter was brilliant and is with me until Monday
to help me plan my new
strategies for life.
speak soon
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Richard,
There are variations but it is pretty typical for
a
couple days of YUCK (and other stuff…) after a
tx
followed by a shift, change, glow… That buzz
will
taper in time, first 3,4,5 days (of GLOW) or so it
can
be a bit much (almost too good sometimes), then
just
cloud 9 for a couple weeks or so is common. After
a
couple weeks I find I am at my best for several
months. Meanwhile “stuff” will happen, your window
is
open, you are entering a very plastic state –
which
means you can mold yourself/direct yourself pretty
much any way you like, or not… One word of
advice,
you may feel just fine, wonderful, drug problem,
what
drug problem, everything is beautiful, such
peace…
this will fade time, get to work while you have
the
opportunity.
Glad you could join us.
Brett
— thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Curtis I am now two days after taking ibogaine –
MY
GOD ! – talk about the
pleasure and the pain – I was in severe physical
discomfort until this
morning and now MY head is buzzing ! !
I’m still exhausted so I’ll tell you more
later…… thanks & peace out
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Here I am saying good things about hush and
either
I hit the wrong key
which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to
richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I
didn’t know ibogaine
existed, I was clean for years before I took it
the
first time last year. I
was checking out if phantom went anywhere.
Mindvox
has been here since I
think the @ sign started, years before www
existed
and I was on it in 1996
to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a
hacker
underground system and the
first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all
of it
to RCN but kept the
domains which went nowhere but a black page. I
typed
phantom and ended up
grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool
rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and
taught
me different ways of
looking at my life. This is a really good place
because there are so many
people here with such different backgrounds and
there is from one extreme
patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok
and
ate sheets of lsd, came
back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some
12
step people who I like too
and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to
offer
and most have been where
we’ve been at or are there are trying to get
out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you
and
then stick around 🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat
line, venting line, recovery
support or I think more like all of them, but
it’s a
good place and it does
have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It
also has angry persons, per
sons who write something to make everyone mad
then
leave, persons who are in
much of their own pain and trying to get off
heroin.
But it really is a good
place in that everyone I think means well and
nobody
here is selling
anything. That’s not true either I think alot
sell
ibogaine or treatment but
not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose
messages I keep. And there
is almost always something I find useful in what
is
said here that lets me
look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest
😉
No I’m not a 12 stepper,
it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t
handle
that. But I am handling
my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not
think I
would be saying that a
few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two
copies of
my message go through
then you got twice my thoughts for the same
price
😉
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link
to
get
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https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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Program:
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 21, 2003 at 9:57:17 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Richard,
5 days in now and still not sleeping and if its too
bright I’m still getting
very mild shifts in light and shadow – but its the
complete fatigue in my
body that is hard ! Is this normal ?
The fatigue is a leftover from the opiate addiction,
quite common. It either passes in time or additional
ibo will generally clear it sooner. The artifacts of
the ibo treatment you are having are quite common,
harmless, they will pass – note that some people have
reported them months later. One person I know was
treated (for dope/meth), went back to dope after
treatment then after jail (and guess what, he found
out he wasn’t addicted when withdrawal DID NOT HAPPEN,
he reported only one yucky day in jail) a couple
months later, reported the ibo coming on in Jail (once
he stopped using) to where he felt some “goodness” as
well as some visual artifacts.
The sleeplessness and brightness will pass, it is
harmless and quite common, so are a number of other
residual effects people sometimes have. I use to get
this phlegm production in my throat after a treatment
(lasted weeks/months) but now that I am not toxic it
doesn’t happen any longer – it is a symptom of
detoxing (as in toxins being expelled).
Drink lots of fluids, eat natural foods (no junk),
fruit, veggies, vitamins… If it persists (fatigue)
or you just want to get it overwith (in my experience
most people will need 2nd+ treatment anyway) and do a
2nd (2/3rds as much ballpark dose), or sometimes a
small dose like 1-1.5 gm of Indra will clear it. Wait
longer (bout a month) for the fuller dose, you can do
the smaller dose in a week or so if you are
uncomfortable. You sound good, do the “one day at a
time” thingie, heal, rest, ponder, do new stuff, don’t
do old “stuff” and listen to the other little voice
inside (or the fellow on the other shoulder if you
like…). However, whatever; as long as you follow the
yellow brick road, put one foot in front of the other,
get suggestions and listen to them… you will do just
fine. If you want to “use” that is OK to, it will only
cause you that much more pain and take that much
longer <g>… (some of us had to learn our lessons the
hard way). You now have a choice.
My sitter was brilliant and is with me until Monday
to help me plan my new
strategies for life.
As long as you “DO”, if you need to “DO” something
else (ie you tried 12 steps but it doesn’t work for
ya), then try something else – but don’t just sit
there looking for the IT to come to you. Again, sounds
like you are on the right track. Do some kind of
exercise, something spiritual, good nutrition, some
kind of therapy/treatment/dealing with addiction,
follow some basic common recovery sense (keep away
from people, places, things…) and GET OUT OF YOUR
OWN WAY, give it time, the ibo will work in you for
months after treatment. If you find yourself making
smoke in your head, STOP (as in sitting there spinning
your wheels in your head but going nowhere – you will
go somewhere alright…), do something else/change the
subject, pick up the phone, do some exercise,
SOMETHING… it is a dangerous place to be.
Please note that a re-treat/booster will be very
different than your first experience so long as you
are not using/addicted.
Brett
— thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Brett
Thanks for your words !!
5 days in now and still not sleeping and if its too
bright I’m still getting
very mild shifts in light and shadow – but its the
complete fatigue in my
body that is hard ! Is this normal ?
My sitter was brilliant and is with me until Monday
to help me plan my new
strategies for life.
speak soon
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Richard,
There are variations but it is pretty typical for
a
couple days of YUCK (and other stuff…) after a
tx
followed by a shift, change, glow… That buzz
will
taper in time, first 3,4,5 days (of GLOW) or so it
can
be a bit much (almost too good sometimes), then
just
cloud 9 for a couple weeks or so is common. After
a
couple weeks I find I am at my best for several
months. Meanwhile “stuff” will happen, your window
is
open, you are entering a very plastic state –
which
means you can mold yourself/direct yourself pretty
much any way you like, or not… One word of
advice,
you may feel just fine, wonderful, drug problem,
what
drug problem, everything is beautiful, such
peace…
this will fade time, get to work while you have
the
opportunity.
Glad you could join us.
Brett
— thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Curtis I am now two days after taking ibogaine –
MY
GOD ! – talk about the
pleasure and the pain – I was in severe physical
discomfort until this
morning and now MY head is buzzing ! !
I’m still exhausted so I’ll tell you more
later…… thanks & peace out
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Here I am saying good things about hush and
either
I hit the wrong key
which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to
richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I
didn’t know ibogaine
existed, I was clean for years before I took it
the
first time last year. I
was checking out if phantom went anywhere.
Mindvox
has been here since I
think the @ sign started, years before www
existed
and I was on it in 1996
to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a
hacker
underground system and the
first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all
of it
to RCN but kept the
domains which went nowhere but a black page. I
typed
phantom and ended up
grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool
rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and
taught
me different ways of
looking at my life. This is a really good place
because there are so many
people here with such different backgrounds and
there is from one extreme
patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok
and
ate sheets of lsd, came
back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some
12
step people who I like too
and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to
offer
and most have been where
we’ve been at or are there are trying to get
out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you
and
then stick around 🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat
line, venting line, recovery
support or I think more like all of them, but
it’s a
good place and it does
have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It
also has angry persons, per
sons who write something to make everyone mad
then
leave, persons who are in
much of their own pain and trying to get off
heroin.
But it really is a good
place in that everyone I think means well and
nobody
here is selling
anything. That’s not true either I think alot
sell
ibogaine or treatment but
not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose
messages I keep. And there
is almost always something I find useful in what
is
said here that lets me
look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest
😉
No I’m not a 12 stepper,
it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t
handle
that. But I am handling
my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not
think I
would be saying that a
few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two
copies of
my message go through
then you got twice my thoughts for the same
price
😉
Peace out,
Curtis
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 21, 2003 at 2:54:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Curtis – I know how you feel, but if you do happen to believe in reincarnation then all of this is just a play we keep putting on, rearranging the characters and keep trying to play it out with more wisdom and maturity. If there really is a space like the space I felt I visited on ibo – I’m convinced this earth trip is really truly that old adage – “just school.” And we’re just building imaginary block castles and then knocking them over again. The wars, the pain, the suffering is all an illusion altho it’s a pretty damn painful illusion at times. The Australian Aborigines say – you can kill all the kangeroos, but you can never kill kangeroo-dreaming. So it’ll all be okay in the end… whatever that is. Best and love, Sandy
>I am maybe overreacting and highly bummed. I like this list a lot and
>care about the people on it. I’ve only met a real small number of you
>so far but would look forward to a bigger get together some time.
>
>I know it’s a ibogaine list and ibogaine is important. But I’m really
>wondering what are all of us doing? I’m reading the exchange between
>Randy and Preston and Marc and I don’t even know where I stand anymore.
>Should I act with my heart and what I think is right or should I act
>with my fear and go with the lesser of two evils.
>
>I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
>of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
>temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
> you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
>the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
>that brings us to a better place?
>
>If none of us can agree on anything, I’m not sure I expect much else
>from the rest of the world. In theory most of us here have done ibogaine
>and are initiated into something that is supposed to be about spirituality
>and a better world. But in practice I think we spend a lot of time arguing
>with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of course.
>So what now?
>
>Peace out,
>Curtis
>
>
>
Protect your PC – Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online
From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next? (for patrick)
Date: March 20, 2003 at 9:44:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanx patrick…
“do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law,
there is no law beyond do what thou wilt,
love is the law,
love under will”
-Thelemaic law
—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:42:47 -0500
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 09:47:45PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
wrote:
| I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
| of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
| temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
| you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
| the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
| that brings us to a better place?
From my personal, carefully cultivated observations, being a person and
being alive and stuff; people are pretty fucked up and in pain. To be
alive, tends to mean you hurt . . . when you’re in pain, it’s also human
nature, to kinda pass that along to others around you, and if you’re not
too happy, well then FUCK THEM.
Sometimes, after feeling that way for a long time, you take some drugs,
read some books, think for a while, fall in love, have a cast off piece of
a UFO hit you in the head and make you SEE TRUTH, or occasionally all of
these things happen, all at once, while you’re walking down this road made
out of yellow bricks on your way to the Temple of Sandoz.
And ya realize that you’re not required to hurt all the time, and life is
actually, exactly how you perceive it to be. By which I mean to say,
life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of reflections and
distorted projections. What you emit, it what comes back at you. Heaven,
hell, good, bad, right, wrong, is not OUT THERE, it’s all inside you.
Of course, its hard to live within that state, and really easy to fall
from “people who are attacking me for no particular reason are just
ignorant, or experiencing a lot of inner turmoil” and move right along to
“you fucking bitch-pig faggot, I’m gonna kill you.”
I don’t think that THINGS really change much by indoctrination, force,
politics, or any external stimulus. All that tends to do is make whoever
has the short end of the new deal, start plotting how to TAKE SHIT OVER,
and do onto others, what’s being done onto them.
Positive change happens when people change themselves, when you can take
the armor off at least once in a while and become open to yourself, and
what you are . . . and see that within other people, which makes them
something positive or beautiful, regardless how many layers of pain and
fear its hidden beneath … and perhaps bring that out in them, so they
too can at least have an experience of that state where the armor is off
for a while.
I think that many — if not most — people are trying to do “the right
thing” (whatever exactly that means to you). I also think it’s pretty
easy to fall into the line of reasoning that goes kinda like, okay, well,
in order to accomplish THIS WONDERFUL END RESULT, I will take this endless
series of really questionable actions, because the goal is worth it.
Does this ever work out for anybody? I dunno, you can answer your own
question. In my own personal experience, Jung’s Power/Love theorem is
pretty accurate. To paraphrase it, “Where there is love, there is no need
for power. Where there is power, love will be lacking.”
What it FEELS like, when you push out, using power, is usually like you
are forcing absolute will, through this harmonic, and sorta throwing it
out of alignment. Does it work? Sure. Does it ever accomplish what you
hoped — if your hopes were in any way whatsoever “positive” …? Not in
my experience.
The way love works appears to be you just let it flow THROUGH you, and
manifest in your actions. Unlike power the source appears to be infinite
— which is pretty fucking mind blowing — and the more you give, the more
there is.
Am I personally in tune with the positive…? Some of the time, I’m
working on it. It appears to take a LOT of work GoDdaMniT, just GIVE IT
TO ME *NOW!* Uhm, I meant to say, human beings are fucked up n’ shit;
presumably if you were perfect you would not have felt the need to
incarnate to work out things n’ stuff.
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 11:26:17PM -0800], [Vector Vector] wrote:
| This is the msg.
|
| Dog, again you rock I have total respect for you. But if this is what
| holds your recovery together and is how your mind works.
|
| Your free psychiatric evaluation is: your insane.
|
| Gamma, your in the same line.
Dave! We’re in the same line! What the fuck is wrong with you mahn? The
only reason I got in *this* line is ‘cuz I was too fucked up to read whut
line I wuz standing in, otherwise I woulda surely picked annaduh one meng.
As far as being insane, maybe, maybe not. Surely no crazier than having
an imaginary disease which is kept at bay 24 hours at a time by sitting
and spinning in a room full of idiots.
The bottom line is… My entire life is drug addiction. I’ve been in
therapy since basically, birth — well, no, since elementary skoOl to be
exact; I’ve done heroin since the age of 14, wuz heavily strung-out for
nearly a decade, and all the LeaD1nG eXpertZ signed off on me.
I’ve also got ’bout 3.5 years totally clean, doing everything my way.
MANY of the people who had so much shit to say to me, have all fallen.
I’m still standing. It’s not “just for today.” I will still be
not-addicted tomorrow, the day after that, next week, next year, and 5
years from now. Period.
I think, perhaps, I’ll just stick with exactly what I’m doing.
I dunno if I will stay unsprung forever, because I really dunno if being
clean is gonna be one of my goals if I live long enough to get old. When
I listen to some of the stories people have to tell, “And he had terminal
cancer, and died in SevErE Agony, but HE WAS CLEAN!” I’m unclear what
this is supposed to mean to me, ‘cuz all I can think is, wow, what a
complete fucking idiot. If I’m still alive in my 70’s, I fully intend to
be one strung-out old geezer. ‘Cuz, I mean, why not?
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:24:29PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| — crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
| > All I can say is I’m glad I’m off heroin. Probably take them another
| > 6 months to turn being a heroin addict into a life in prison offense.
|
| word, dog.
Hum, I’m not sure I agree. If I were running a fascist gub’mint, I can
think of nothing finer than perhaps continuing to demonize heroin, but
amping the shit out of Soma(TM)(R)(Patent Pending) Brand hydromorphone or
oxy’s… Do your duty as a citizen and bang-up using the new red, white
and blue B-D Patriot Points!
I can think of no more a controllable group of individuals, than people
who have habits. People who are sprung really do not give a shit, about,
anything, except making sure they continue to get their materials. They
don’t sit around a lot discussing why the government sucks; they don’t
plot to overthrow a government that’s giving them junk; they don’t give a
fuck.
Personally I’d say fascism and narcotic analgesics are a highly winning
combination.
Love, peace, strength, faith, hope, are all inside you. If you focus
inside, then you nobody can ever take you out. If you focus your hopes on
external things — be that a relationship, event, goals, things you want,
or the state of the nation. It’s very hit and miss, but ultimately it
will not elevate you. You will go down in it instead.
Patrick
<Losing the Jesus Christ Pose>
These are my opinions, based upon my observations, and may have nothing
whatsoever to do with your reality. Milage may vary.
—
_______________________________________________
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From: “thebozman” <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 20, 2003 at 9:16:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Paul
I’m 5 days in and would love to talk soon !!
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Yes YES YES!!! very important. Much more important than all this crap
about Iraq, medical marijuana, HIV, Hep c, Junkies needing Ibo, Feds
busting bong makers, living in the tyranny of the Bush administration
Etc.
I am going to log on right away. This is very important. MTV! MTV! MTV!
who am I voting for? Devil?
MTV : now recast as multi-dimensional tabernanthe visions :
“…..i saw a screen unfold in my mind,upon this screen,an infinity of
images twisted and unfolded before my very eyes – a dark entity slowly
moved
towards me and in a booming voice anounced itself : “VOTE FOR ME” it
screamed from the depths of hyperspace…”VOTE FOR ME”…….
do not adjust your mind – this is simply reality malfunctioning…
paul.
_________________________________________________________________
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From: “thebozman” <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 20, 2003 at 9:11:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Brett
Thanks for your words !!
5 days in now and still not sleeping and if its too bright I’m still getting
very mild shifts in light and shadow – but its the complete fatigue in my
body that is hard ! Is this normal ?
My sitter was brilliant and is with me until Monday to help me plan my new
strategies for life.
speak soon
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Richard,
There are variations but it is pretty typical for a
couple days of YUCK (and other stuff…) after a tx
followed by a shift, change, glow… That buzz will
taper in time, first 3,4,5 days (of GLOW) or so it can
be a bit much (almost too good sometimes), then just
cloud 9 for a couple weeks or so is common. After a
couple weeks I find I am at my best for several
months. Meanwhile “stuff” will happen, your window is
open, you are entering a very plastic state – which
means you can mold yourself/direct yourself pretty
much any way you like, or not… One word of advice,
you may feel just fine, wonderful, drug problem, what
drug problem, everything is beautiful, such peace…
this will fade time, get to work while you have the
opportunity.
Glad you could join us.
Brett
— thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Curtis I am now two days after taking ibogaine – MY
GOD ! – talk about the
pleasure and the pain – I was in severe physical
discomfort until this
morning and now MY head is buzzing ! !
I’m still exhausted so I’ll tell you more
later…… thanks & peace out
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Here I am saying good things about hush and either
I hit the wrong key
which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to
richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I
didn’t know ibogaine
existed, I was clean for years before I took it the
first time last year. I
was checking out if phantom went anywhere. Mindvox
has been here since I
think the @ sign started, years before www existed
and I was on it in 1996
to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a hacker
underground system and the
first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all of it
to RCN but kept the
domains which went nowhere but a black page. I typed
phantom and ended up
grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and taught
me different ways of
looking at my life. This is a really good place
because there are so many
people here with such different backgrounds and
there is from one extreme
patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok and
ate sheets of lsd, came
back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some 12
step people who I like too
and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to offer
and most have been where
we’ve been at or are there are trying to get out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you and
then stick around 🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat
line, venting line, recovery
support or I think more like all of them, but it’s a
good place and it does
have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It
also has angry persons, per
sons who write something to make everyone mad then
leave, persons who are in
much of their own pain and trying to get off heroin.
But it really is a good
place in that everyone I think means well and nobody
here is selling
anything. That’s not true either I think alot sell
ibogaine or treatment but
not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose
messages I keep. And there
is almost always something I find useful in what is
said here that lets me
look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest 😉
No I’m not a 12 stepper,
it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t handle
that. But I am handling
my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not think I
would be saying that a
few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two copies of
my message go through
then you got twice my thoughts for the same price
😉
Peace out,
Curtis
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https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 7:09:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| uhm, I’m still fucking trying to figure out if it was the red pill or the
blue
| pill? which was the one to take?
Hmmmm, <checking notes> take 25 of each and call me in the morning.
Oh Chittt! now I’m seeing Dubble…
::^P
-gamma
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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 5:10:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
At 05:18 20.3.2003, you wrote:
Those in power will stop at nothing to get what they want… to further cause of empire. Of course all this in the name of freedom and national security.
-gamma
You’re absolutely right. I hear the’ve already re-named French Fries, which are Liberty Fries now.
And they poured good French wine on the ground.
I wonder if they will send back the Statue of Liberty?
Marko
From: “Rick” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 5:04:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In the corporate world, there’s no such thing as free speech or civil
rights when it comes right down to it. Employers can pretty much watch
you, tape you, read your email, etc. In a world where the gummint owns
the corporations, or vice-versa…the Constitution becomes (became) a
thing of the past, as well as the Bill of Rights.
I found it interesting that a copy of the “Bill of Rights” that was
stolen “a-way-backa-when,” was found in the past day or so in some FBI
raid (and here I thought they were protecting the Homeland, not looking
for old copies of the Bill of Rights). I wonder just what that Bill of
Rights will say.
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:19 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Medical Marijuana is not the only issue that our nation faces.
Medical Marijuana is the LEAST of our worries in the merging of
corporate and
state. Consider the ability of fascist war mongers who now occupy the
white
house to declare martial law across the nation under the guise of
national
security in the face of alledged terrorist attacks, and all that martial
law
and the newly embedded “patriot acts” stand for. Put that in the
proverbial
pipe and smoke it.
I love America and the values set forth in the bill of rights and the
original
constitution, but I cannot support the corporate thugs who have taken
command
of the executive and military branches of our government, not to mention
the
corporate media spin doctors. Deceitful criminals in a game whos stakes
are
none other than global domination of forced democracy.
I must reflect on how this country was built… upon the dead bodies of
the
once great nation of the beautiful native americans… and I conclude
that not
a whole lot has changed over the centuries. Those in power will stop at
nothing
to get what they want… to further cause of empire. Of course all this
in the
name of freedom and national security.
-gamma
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [vox] Too Fucking (ool]
Date: March 20, 2003 at 4:18:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Here, everyone needs to be aware of this. Utilizing Apple’s new FTL
(Faster Than Light) processors (Just place your hands over the spin
control, click your heels together three times, and BELIEVE!)
http://www.xosx.com/desktopcray/testimonials/
Somebody should, like, buy The Missing Manual or sumthin’
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [vox] Too Fucking (ool
Date: March 20, 2003 at 3:53:57 PM EST
To: vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: vox@mindvox.com
This is groovy:
http://www.xosx.com/desktopcray/
PatricK
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 4:01:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| uhm, I’m still fucking trying to figure out if it was the red pill or the
blue
| pill? which was the one to take?
Hmmmm, <checking notes> take 25 of each and call me in the morning.<
Personally, it’s the green and purple ones I like best.
Feed my head, feed my head….now where’d that doormouse get to?
peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
On [Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:47:55AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| Shit, we’re in a line? And to think all along I was trying to get out of
the
| fucking line [at the kkklinik]!
|
| uhm, I’m still fucking trying to figure out if it was the red pill or the
blue
| pill? which was the one to take?
Hmmmm, <checking notes> take 25 of each and call me in the morning.
Dr. Kroupa
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 3:18:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On [Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:27:23AM -0800], [acer.nl@hushmail.com] wrote:
| I have figured it out.
|
| Mash cloned you. There are two of you. One of you is in suspended animation
| hooked up to a heroin IV
Mmmmmmmm. <gluG> HerOiN. Good!
| and the other one is aproaching sainthood. You
| take turns. There is no way both of you can exist in the same person.
Look, shut up. The only people with access to this information have
signed a 800ft. tall stack of nondisclosures. I’m gonna sue your
ancestors AND your grandchildren.
Not me.
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 2:48:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On [Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:47:55AM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| Shit, we’re in a line? And to think all along I was trying to get out of the
| fucking line [at the kkklinik]!
|
| uhm, I’m still fucking trying to figure out if it was the red pill or the blue
| pill? which was the one to take?
Hmmmm, <checking notes> take 25 of each and call me in the morning.
Dr. Kroupa
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 2:47:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| Gamma, your in the same line.
Dave! We’re in the same line! What the fuck is wrong with you mahn? The
only reason I got in *this* line is ‘cuz I was too fucked up to read whut
line I wuz standing in, otherwise I woulda surely picked annaduh one meng.
Shit, we’re in a line? And to think all along I was trying to get out of the
fucking line [at the kkklinik]!
uhm, I’m still fucking trying to figure out if it was the red pill or the blue
pill? which was the one to take?
If I’m still alive in my 70’s, I fully intend to
be one strung-out old geezer. ‘Cuz, I mean, why not?
You have no argument from me there.
Personally I’d say fascism and narcotic analgesics are a highly winning
combination.
word, dog. sleepwalk of the masses.
-gamma
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From: <acer.nl@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 1:27:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I have figured it out.
Mash cloned you. There are two of you. One of you is in suspended animation
hooked up to a heroin IV and the other one is aproaching sainthood. You
take turns. There is no way both of you can exist in the same person.
Every time I think I’ve seen everything something surpise me. Meglamanic
arrogant messianic genius asshole is a for real somewhere near saint?
Ibogaine is stranger then I ever thought it was.
Patrick youre very very very very very strange collection of people inside
there. 🙂
Beautiful msg. thank you.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:42:47 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 09:47:45PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
wrote:
| I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you
think
| of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
| temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of
this,
| you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana,
what’s
| the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree
on
| that brings us to a better place?
From my personal, carefully cultivated observations, being a person
and
being alive and stuff; people are pretty fucked up and in pain.
To be
alive, tends to mean you hurt . . . when you’re in pain, it’s also
human
nature, to kinda pass that along to others around you, and if you’re
not
too happy, well then FUCK THEM.
Sometimes, after feeling that way for a long time, you take some
drugs,
read some books, think for a while, fall in love, have a cast off
piece of
a UFO hit you in the head and make you SEE TRUTH, or occasionally
all of
these things happen, all at once, while you’re walking down this
road made
out of yellow bricks on your way to the Temple of Sandoz.
And ya realize that you’re not required to hurt all the time, and
life is
actually, exactly how you perceive it to be. By which I mean to
say,
life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of reflections and
distorted projections. What you emit, it what comes back at you.
Heaven,
hell, good, bad, right, wrong, is not OUT THERE, it’s all inside
you.
Of course, its hard to live within that state, and really easy to
fall
from “people who are attacking me for no particular reason are just
ignorant, or experiencing a lot of inner turmoil” and move right
along to
“you fucking bitch-pig faggot, I’m gonna kill you.”
I don’t think that THINGS really change much by indoctrination,
force,
politics, or any external stimulus. All that tends to do is make
whoever
has the short end of the new deal, start plotting how to TAKE SHIT
OVER,
and do onto others, what’s being done onto them.
Positive change happens when people change themselves, when you
can take
the armor off at least once in a while and become open to yourself,
and
what you are . . . and see that within other people, which makes
them
something positive or beautiful, regardless how many layers of pain
and
fear its hidden beneath … and perhaps bring that out in them,
so they
too can at least have an experience of that state where the armor
is off
for a while.
I think that many — if not most — people are trying to do “the
right
thing” (whatever exactly that means to you). I also think it’s
pretty
easy to fall into the line of reasoning that goes kinda like, okay,
well,
in order to accomplish THIS WONDERFUL END RESULT, I will take this
endless
series of really questionable actions, because the goal is worth
it.
Does this ever work out for anybody? I dunno, you can answer your
own
question. In my own personal experience, Jung’s Power/Love theorem
is
pretty accurate. To paraphrase it, “Where there is love, there
is no need
for power. Where there is power, love will be lacking.”
What it FEELS like, when you push out, using power, is usually like
you
are forcing absolute will, through this harmonic, and sorta throwing
it
out of alignment. Does it work? Sure. Does it ever accomplish
what you
hoped — if your hopes were in any way whatsoever “positive” …?
Not in
my experience.
The way love works appears to be you just let it flow THROUGH you,
and
manifest in your actions. Unlike power the source appears to be
infinite
— which is pretty fucking mind blowing — and the more you give,
the more
there is.
Am I personally in tune with the positive…? Some of the time,
I’m
working on it. It appears to take a LOT of work GoDdaMniT, just
GIVE IT
TO ME *NOW!* Uhm, I meant to say, human beings are fucked up n’
shit;
presumably if you were perfect you would not have felt the need
to
incarnate to work out things n’ stuff.
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 11:26:17PM -0800], [Vector Vector] wrote:
| This is the msg.
|
| Dog, again you rock I have total respect for you. But if this
is what
| holds your recovery together and is how your mind works.
|
| Your free psychiatric evaluation is: your insane.
|
| Gamma, your in the same line.
Dave! We’re in the same line! What the fuck is wrong with you
mahn? The
only reason I got in *this* line is ‘cuz I was too fucked up to
read whut
line I wuz standing in, otherwise I woulda surely picked annaduh
one meng.
As far as being insane, maybe, maybe not. Surely no crazier than
having
an imaginary disease which is kept at bay 24 hours at a time by
sitting
and spinning in a room full of idiots.
The bottom line is… My entire life is drug addiction. I’ve been
in
therapy since basically, birth — well, no, since elementary skoOl
to be
exact; I’ve done heroin since the age of 14, wuz heavily strung-
out for
nearly a decade, and all the LeaD1nG eXpertZ signed off on me.
I’ve also got ’bout 3.5 years totally clean, doing everything my
way.
MANY of the people who had so much shit to say to me, have all fallen.
I’m still standing. It’s not “just for today.” I will still be
not-addicted tomorrow, the day after that, next week, next year,
and 5
years from now. Period.
I think, perhaps, I’ll just stick with exactly what I’m doing.
I dunno if I will stay unsprung forever, because I really dunno
if being
clean is gonna be one of my goals if I live long enough to get old.
When
I listen to some of the stories people have to tell, “And he had
terminal
cancer, and died in SevErE Agony, but HE WAS CLEAN!” I’m unclear
what
this is supposed to mean to me, ‘cuz all I can think is, wow, what
a
complete fucking idiot. If I’m still alive in my 70’s, I fully
intend to
be one strung-out old geezer. ‘Cuz, I mean, why not?
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:24:29PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| — crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
| > All I can say is I’m glad I’m off heroin. Probably take them
another
| > 6 months to turn being a heroin addict into a life in prison
offense.
|
| word, dog.
Hum, I’m not sure I agree. If I were running a fascist gub’mint,
I can
think of nothing finer than perhaps continuing to demonize heroin,
but
amping the shit out of Soma(TM)(R)(Patent Pending) Brand hydromorphone
or
oxy’s… Do your duty as a citizen and bang-up using the new red,
white
and blue B-D Patriot Points!
I can think of no more a controllable group of individuals, than
people
who have habits. People who are sprung really do not give a shit,
about,
anything, except making sure they continue to get their materials.
They
don’t sit around a lot discussing why the government sucks; they
don’t
plot to overthrow a government that’s giving them junk; they don’t
give a
fuck.
Personally I’d say fascism and narcotic analgesics are a highly
winning
combination.
Love, peace, strength, faith, hope, are all inside you. If you
focus
inside, then you nobody can ever take you out. If you focus your
hopes on
external things — be that a relationship, event, goals, things
you want,
or the state of the nation. It’s very hit and miss, but ultimately
it
will not elevate you. You will go down in it instead.
Patrick
<Losing the Jesus Christ Pose>
These are my opinions, based upon my observations, and may have
nothing
whatsoever to do with your reality. Milage may vary.
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 12:42:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 09:47:45PM -0800], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
wrote:
| I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
| of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
| temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
| you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
| the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
| that brings us to a better place?
From my personal, carefully cultivated observations, being a person and
being alive and stuff; people are pretty fucked up and in pain. To be
alive, tends to mean you hurt . . . when you’re in pain, it’s also human
nature, to kinda pass that along to others around you, and if you’re not
too happy, well then FUCK THEM.
Sometimes, after feeling that way for a long time, you take some drugs,
read some books, think for a while, fall in love, have a cast off piece of
a UFO hit you in the head and make you SEE TRUTH, or occasionally all of
these things happen, all at once, while you’re walking down this road made
out of yellow bricks on your way to the Temple of Sandoz.
And ya realize that you’re not required to hurt all the time, and life is
actually, exactly how you perceive it to be. By which I mean to say,
life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of reflections and
distorted projections. What you emit, it what comes back at you. Heaven,
hell, good, bad, right, wrong, is not OUT THERE, it’s all inside you.
Of course, its hard to live within that state, and really easy to fall
from “people who are attacking me for no particular reason are just
ignorant, or experiencing a lot of inner turmoil” and move right along to
“you fucking bitch-pig faggot, I’m gonna kill you.”
I don’t think that THINGS really change much by indoctrination, force,
politics, or any external stimulus. All that tends to do is make whoever
has the short end of the new deal, start plotting how to TAKE SHIT OVER,
and do onto others, what’s being done onto them.
Positive change happens when people change themselves, when you can take
the armor off at least once in a while and become open to yourself, and
what you are . . . and see that within other people, which makes them
something positive or beautiful, regardless how many layers of pain and
fear its hidden beneath … and perhaps bring that out in them, so they
too can at least have an experience of that state where the armor is off
for a while.
I think that many — if not most — people are trying to do “the right
thing” (whatever exactly that means to you). I also think it’s pretty
easy to fall into the line of reasoning that goes kinda like, okay, well,
in order to accomplish THIS WONDERFUL END RESULT, I will take this endless
series of really questionable actions, because the goal is worth it.
Does this ever work out for anybody? I dunno, you can answer your own
question. In my own personal experience, Jung’s Power/Love theorem is
pretty accurate. To paraphrase it, “Where there is love, there is no need
for power. Where there is power, love will be lacking.”
What it FEELS like, when you push out, using power, is usually like you
are forcing absolute will, through this harmonic, and sorta throwing it
out of alignment. Does it work? Sure. Does it ever accomplish what you
hoped — if your hopes were in any way whatsoever “positive” …? Not in
my experience.
The way love works appears to be you just let it flow THROUGH you, and
manifest in your actions. Unlike power the source appears to be infinite
— which is pretty fucking mind blowing — and the more you give, the more
there is.
Am I personally in tune with the positive…? Some of the time, I’m
working on it. It appears to take a LOT of work GoDdaMniT, just GIVE IT
TO ME *NOW!* Uhm, I meant to say, human beings are fucked up n’ shit;
presumably if you were perfect you would not have felt the need to
incarnate to work out things n’ stuff.
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 11:26:17PM -0800], [Vector Vector] wrote:
| This is the msg.
|
| Dog, again you rock I have total respect for you. But if this is what
| holds your recovery together and is how your mind works.
|
| Your free psychiatric evaluation is: your insane.
|
| Gamma, your in the same line.
Dave! We’re in the same line! What the fuck is wrong with you mahn? The
only reason I got in *this* line is ‘cuz I was too fucked up to read whut
line I wuz standing in, otherwise I woulda surely picked annaduh one meng.
As far as being insane, maybe, maybe not. Surely no crazier than having
an imaginary disease which is kept at bay 24 hours at a time by sitting
and spinning in a room full of idiots.
The bottom line is… My entire life is drug addiction. I’ve been in
therapy since basically, birth — well, no, since elementary skoOl to be
exact; I’ve done heroin since the age of 14, wuz heavily strung-out for
nearly a decade, and all the LeaD1nG eXpertZ signed off on me.
I’ve also got ’bout 3.5 years totally clean, doing everything my way.
MANY of the people who had so much shit to say to me, have all fallen.
I’m still standing. It’s not “just for today.” I will still be
not-addicted tomorrow, the day after that, next week, next year, and 5
years from now. Period.
I think, perhaps, I’ll just stick with exactly what I’m doing.
I dunno if I will stay unsprung forever, because I really dunno if being
clean is gonna be one of my goals if I live long enough to get old. When
I listen to some of the stories people have to tell, “And he had terminal
cancer, and died in SevErE Agony, but HE WAS CLEAN!” I’m unclear what
this is supposed to mean to me, ‘cuz all I can think is, wow, what a
complete fucking idiot. If I’m still alive in my 70’s, I fully intend to
be one strung-out old geezer. ‘Cuz, I mean, why not?
On [Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:24:29PM -0800], [Gamma] wrote:
| — crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
| > All I can say is I’m glad I’m off heroin. Probably take them another
| > 6 months to turn being a heroin addict into a life in prison offense.
|
| word, dog.
Hum, I’m not sure I agree. If I were running a fascist gub’mint, I can
think of nothing finer than perhaps continuing to demonize heroin, but
amping the shit out of Soma(TM)(R)(Patent Pending) Brand hydromorphone or
oxy’s… Do your duty as a citizen and bang-up using the new red, white
and blue B-D Patriot Points!
I can think of no more a controllable group of individuals, than people
who have habits. People who are sprung really do not give a shit, about,
anything, except making sure they continue to get their materials. They
don’t sit around a lot discussing why the government sucks; they don’t
plot to overthrow a government that’s giving them junk; they don’t give a
fuck.
Personally I’d say fascism and narcotic analgesics are a highly winning
combination.
Love, peace, strength, faith, hope, are all inside you. If you focus
inside, then you nobody can ever take you out. If you focus your hopes on
external things — be that a relationship, event, goals, things you want,
or the state of the nation. It’s very hit and miss, but ultimately it
will not elevate you. You will go down in it instead.
Patrick
<Losing the Jesus Christ Pose>
These are my opinions, based upon my observations, and may have nothing
whatsoever to do with your reality. Milage may vary.
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 20, 2003 at 9:38:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Richard,
There are variations but it is pretty typical for a
couple days of YUCK (and other stuff…) after a tx
followed by a shift, change, glow… That buzz will
taper in time, first 3,4,5 days (of GLOW) or so it can
be a bit much (almost too good sometimes), then just
cloud 9 for a couple weeks or so is common. After a
couple weeks I find I am at my best for several
months. Meanwhile “stuff” will happen, your window is
open, you are entering a very plastic state – which
means you can mold yourself/direct yourself pretty
much any way you like, or not… One word of advice,
you may feel just fine, wonderful, drug problem, what
drug problem, everything is beautiful, such peace…
this will fade time, get to work while you have the
opportunity.
Glad you could join us.
Brett
— thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Curtis I am now two days after taking ibogaine – MY
GOD ! – talk about the
pleasure and the pain – I was in severe physical
discomfort until this
morning and now MY head is buzzing ! !
I’m still exhausted so I’ll tell you more
later…… thanks & peace out
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Here I am saying good things about hush and either
I hit the wrong key
which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to
richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I
didn’t know ibogaine
existed, I was clean for years before I took it the
first time last year. I
was checking out if phantom went anywhere. Mindvox
has been here since I
think the @ sign started, years before www existed
and I was on it in 1996
to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a hacker
underground system and the
first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all of it
to RCN but kept the
domains which went nowhere but a black page. I typed
phantom and ended up
grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and taught
me different ways of
looking at my life. This is a really good place
because there are so many
people here with such different backgrounds and
there is from one extreme
patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok and
ate sheets of lsd, came
back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some 12
step people who I like too
and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to offer
and most have been where
we’ve been at or are there are trying to get out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you and
then stick around 🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat
line, venting line, recovery
support or I think more like all of them, but it’s a
good place and it does
have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It
also has angry persons, per
sons who write something to make everyone mad then
leave, persons who are in
much of their own pain and trying to get off heroin.
But it really is a good
place in that everyone I think means well and nobody
here is selling
anything. That’s not true either I think alot sell
ibogaine or treatment but
not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose
messages I keep. And there
is almost always something I find useful in what is
said here that lets me
look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest 😉
No I’m not a 12 stepper,
it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t handle
that. But I am handling
my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not think I
would be saying that a
few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two copies of
my message go through
then you got twice my thoughts for the same price
😉
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to
get
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https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 9:34:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 3/20/03 12:55:24 AM, crownofthorns@hushmail.com writes:
I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
of all this?
I came in late here. What exactly is “this”?
Howard
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Purple
Date: March 20, 2003 at 2:26:17 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This is the msg.
Dog, again you rock I have total respect for you. But if this is what
holds your recovery together and is how your mind works.
Your free psychiatric evaluation is: your insane.
Gamma, your in the same line.
Love both you guys. But……………………
.:vector:.
— Carrie Rollins <carrierollins@yahoo.com> wrote:
Wow.
This is like so much all at once and so cool.
I’m printing this.
I can’t find the URL though it won’t load it?
-carrie
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 03:25:14PM -0400], [preston
peet] wrote:
| >What really works is resonating with Purple and
letting it flow through
| you. <
|
| This is the second or third time I’ve seen this-
what does this mean,
| the reference to Purple? I mean, I love the color,
one of my very
| favorites, being royalty and all, but is there
something else to this?
| Is this a Philip K Dick reference or something? Or
a Patrick Kroupa
| original?
Laughing… Yes, *I* invented the Purple
Shit!(TM)(R)(C)(Patent Pending),
although Philip K. Dick is involved, because Valis
is woven into the
strands of all reality. Just ask Dana, he’ll tell
you.
Lemme look… <looking…>
Okay, HERE, The Whole Entire Truth (in its complete
totality):
| But what did you do though to get somewhere? You
say pieces in HT and here,
| I think I understand some of mindvox but when I
start to get it it becomes
| imcomprehensible it’s brilliant or crazy. I know
your having a book
| published or something but the only thing online
that’s even close is
|
http://www.mindvox.com/MindVox/Places/Texts/CrackPipe.html
and it looks like
| you cut pieces of different times from all over
and threw them together.
|
| What do you do??? Really, not just the recovery
talk you give people.
Nothing, anything, everything. It’s as simple or
complex as you wanna
make it; change paradigms.
Usually what I do is get horny, wander around in sex
for a while, which is
okay, but, if love doesn’t get mixed into the
picture I wind up with the
armies of the universe inside my head; which is
kinda like, oh fuck me, I
was having a great time and now there is all this
shit, it’s violence,
brutality, destruction, and every single one of the
energies taking part,
is all me, so I’m killing and being killed by
myself; which is sick,
painful and kinda cool, all at the same time.
Getting outta red and into
green is sorta a bitch because green keeps refusing
to let go, usually I
spin around in all this for a while and eventually
manage to hit gold, but
that’s rough for me — though, it’s getting easier
— I kinda hafta slide
in sideways off of compassion and empathy to hit
love. The rest is easy,
blue is intellect, that’s just online, and all of
this is just a journey
on the road to the Purple Shit.
Eventually it feels sorta like blowing a load up
your spine, which
probably isn’t happening, I mean, intellectually I
know erection, orgasm,
ejaculation, are separate systems, but mahn, it sure
feels like it. The
whirlpools spin and resolve into eyes, which blow
open, hyperventilating
increases the opacity of the eyes, kinda like
adjusting the alpha channel
or sumthin’, taking really slow, deep breaths, or
stopping breathing for a
while, makes them expand in number and radius and
blow outwards, until it
feels like you’re football stadium sized, and you’re
at the Purple Shit
(TM).
The Purple Shit is everywhere, in everything, it’s
energy, but alive,
sentient, and it loves you. It feels something like
everything you are,
is a receiver/transmitter for channeling the Purple
Shit (which ya can
call God, cosmic consciousness, whatever makes you
happy).
After a while you don’t need any substances to do
this anymore. It’s like
re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago,
and just falling back
into it. Being in touch with this on a semi-regular
basis seems to fix
90% of what’s wrong, most of the time. Though,
various PieceS and tHINGs
still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.
So, mostly, on a day-to-day basis, what holds me
together is blue and
green. Intellect reinforced by will. If I counted
on love, positive
energy, and being happy, to consistently prevent me
from bangin’ up dope,
I’d last half a day at most.
My main Unresolved Issue are The Colours. The
chakras get painted with
green at the heart chakra, gold as will. I don’t
see them this way,
they’re reversed. Is my energy system color blind,
is everyone else
wrong, am I just that fucked up… dunno <shrug>
one day I’ll prolly
resolve it.
Uhm, woops, wait no, that’s wrong.
What I meant to say was; my “recovery” hinges upon
an excellent
relationship with my psychiatrist, strict adherence
to a regimen of
medication, and a solid foundation built on the
12-steps. Yeah baby!
– – – – – – – – –
People who have said stuff which has a lotta
resonance for me are
Muktananda and lately — thanks to Nick —
Rajneesh/Osho.
A lot of books contain pieces of truth, the single
greatest collection of
truth I have ever found in one place is in two
books:
The Solaris System Admin Guide, by Sun Microsystems,
and Machiavelli’s
cool little epic, The Prince. Though, to be honest,
the religion of BSD
calls strongly to me, and I really like Mach running
the BSD 4.4 kernel.
No, wait, that’s wrong too, I meant:
One’s by Alex Grey, which doesn’t have a lot of
words, it’s called Sacred
Mirrors. And this was like pivotal in my life.
When a lotta this first
happened, I wasn’t in an environment where it was…
okay or accepted, and
as cool as it was, I thought I was losing my mind
until I saw this
magazine — which was a druggie mag, not High Times,
maybe Magical Blend
or sumthin’ — which had Grey’s painting called
“Dying.” At the time I
didn’t know that, I thought it was Awakening, and it
wuz like, holy shit,
this guy I know nothing about is painting exactly
what I’m looking at. He
sees it too, I’m not crazy.
The other book is called Holographic Universe by
Michael Talbot, and it’s
utterly beautiful and links together such a
disparate and wide-ranging
series of topics and phenomena that it’s amazing.
Read this if ya read
nothing else, even maybe a few paragraphs at a time.
– – – – – – – – –
Just believe. If you believe with enough focus, a
Rift in Time and Space
may open right in the middle of the Mars bar, and
green ibogaine sludge
mixed with DMSO might Hurtle Downwards upon the
Patrons — kinda like
Cthulhu meets the Iceman Cometh, with strands of
Philip K. Dick woven in
— and a great WAVE of hEALINg will SWEEP the land,
“oh my fucking god…
I’ve been drunk and strung-out for 49 years, what
the hell is all this
crap I’m seeing, is this reality? Man do I need a
drink.”
That concludes this evening’s sermon. Donation box
is over on the left on
your way out, thank you veddy much.
In conclusion, go to a meeting and share, you’ll
feel better about things.
You’re right where you need to be, it’s all part of
God’s .plan for you.
Just take things one day at a time, you have a
horrible disease.
And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to
you at last, when all
are one and one is all.
Patrick
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 2:23:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You and Patrick both talk about this purple as being something real,
not a metaphor. I’m doing a search in my mailbox for the first messages
I found on this from last year.
What are you guys talking about? Patrick has your ascension art as the
heart of mindvox but mindvox is full of gallows humor and sick jokes,
the mission statement is a picture of a psychedelic devil filled with
eyes that has every finger chopped off with a axe except the middle
finger. Patrick you rock dog, but I see symbols of chaos, not the peace
symbol.
What are any of you actually talking about?
.:vector:.
http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred/Ascension.html
http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred/Ascension.html
— Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
Lets all vibrate to the next level of spiritual consiousness… the
frequency
of unconditional love and peace.
I’m completely serious.
The alarming thing was my last Ibo encounter was all about war and
the race for
global coporate-empire takeover. Was I time-traveling? Or delving
into my own
darkness? Or tapping into the mass-conscience of media broadcast
fear?
The re-assuring vision was seeing the Gawd-Head, and all living
beings
connected to it by spiraling DNA tubes transmitting life, love and
light…
deep from the purple.
-gamma
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
I am maybe overreacting and highly bummed. I like this list a lot
and
care about the people on it. I’ve only met a real small number of
you
so far but would look forward to a bigger get together some time.
I know it’s a ibogaine list and ibogaine is important. But I’m
really
wondering what are all of us doing? I’m reading the exchange
between
Randy and Preston and Marc and I don’t even know where I stand
anymore.
Should I act with my heart and what I think is right or should I
act
with my fear and go with the lesser of two evils.
I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you
think
of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this
‘psychedelic
temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of
this,
you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana,
what’s
the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree
on
that brings us to a better place?
If none of us can agree on anything, I’m not sure I expect much
else
from the rest of the world. In theory most of us here have done
ibogaine
and are initiated into something that is supposed to be about
spirituality
and a better world. But in practice I think we spend a lot of time
arguing
with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of
course.
So what now?
Peace out,
Curtis
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 1:43:17 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
But in practice I think we spend a lot of time arguing
with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of course.
So what now?<
Arguing? Aw, Curtis, I’m not arguing, and hope it isn’t taken that way. I’m
only stating my own position and don’t expect anyone else at all to agree
with me, but would obviously like it if more people did.;-))
Peace,
Preston (Got that Temple of the Dog thing again recently, thanks to a
friend.)
—– Original Message —–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:47 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] what next?
I am maybe overreacting and highly bummed. I like this list a lot and
care about the people on it. I’ve only met a real small number of you
so far but would look forward to a bigger get together some time.
I know it’s a ibogaine list and ibogaine is important. But I’m really
wondering what are all of us doing? I’m reading the exchange between
Randy and Preston and Marc and I don’t even know where I stand anymore.
Should I act with my heart and what I think is right or should I act
with my fear and go with the lesser of two evils.
I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
that brings us to a better place?
If none of us can agree on anything, I’m not sure I expect much else
from the rest of the world. In theory most of us here have done ibogaine
and are initiated into something that is supposed to be about spirituality
and a better world. But in practice I think we spend a lot of time arguing
with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of course.
So what now?
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 1:34:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lets all vibrate to the next level of spiritual consiousness… the frequency
of unconditional love and peace.
I’m completely serious.
The alarming thing was my last Ibo encounter was all about war and the race for
global coporate-empire takeover. Was I time-traveling? Or delving into my own
darkness? Or tapping into the mass-conscience of media broadcast fear?
The re-assuring vision was seeing the Gawd-Head, and all living beings
connected to it by spiraling DNA tubes transmitting life, love and light…
deep from the purple.
-gamma
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
I am maybe overreacting and highly bummed. I like this list a lot and
care about the people on it. I’ve only met a real small number of you
so far but would look forward to a bigger get together some time.
I know it’s a ibogaine list and ibogaine is important. But I’m really
wondering what are all of us doing? I’m reading the exchange between
Randy and Preston and Marc and I don’t even know where I stand anymore.
Should I act with my heart and what I think is right or should I act
with my fear and go with the lesser of two evils.
I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
that brings us to a better place?
If none of us can agree on anything, I’m not sure I expect much else
from the rest of the world. In theory most of us here have done ibogaine
and are initiated into something that is supposed to be about spirituality
and a better world. But in practice I think we spend a lot of time arguing
with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of course.
So what now?
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 1:26:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Nobody cares about drug addicts. <
Can’t speak for anyone else Curtis, but I care, as I take it you do too.;-))
Which is why I’ll continue to vote for the person I really, really want in
office as opposed to simply voting for whomever seems likely to get rid of
some meanie like Bush/Ashcroft/Cheney/Walters/et al.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the
war?
Bro these are very strange days. I don’t even know what my response is.
I’m not sure I’m ready to just throw it all in and stop voting my beliefs.
My beliefs are with the greens, marijuana party, libertarians, democrats.
In that order. But in the face of reality the only choice there that
has any chance are the dems.
Does this mean it’s time to give up what I really believe in?
I don’t have the answer to that one. But that is happening in the world
is not good. Maybe all the apocalpytic visions and theories are not that
wrong and it’s all ending in 2012. I dont so much believe that, but the
world right now is a much darker place then it was 2 years ago. My only
hope is that the recession will get bush out of office in 2004. But I
am not so sure.
I am very much getting the impression that the war on drugs, helping
anyone who is on drugs get ibogaine or anything of that sort, is going
to be moving even lower on the priority list then it has been. Moving
any lower then it already was means nobody at all is going to care except
for some small number of people like us.
Nobody cares about drug addicts. That number is going to get even smaller.
Smaller then nobody is real small.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:16:44 -0800 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Preston,
I will still try to create change with my money and my voice. But
my vote
will now go towards strategy as opposed to heart. This situation
reminds me
of elementary school when we would elect class president. All the
boys
would rally behind the most popular boy and all the girls would
vote for
their best friend. The boys always won.
My new version of protesting the war and other causes that I support
will
start by campaigning for a canidate who can actually WIN.
Randy
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 20, 2003 at 1:24:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Congratulations! Welcome to the new world 🙂
At least some things are good.
Gamma, bro, that is some depressing shit. I don’t want to carry on and
turn this into the war list because every list i’m on is already that.
but everything is real grim right now. This sucks.
depressing yeah but reality sinks in, searching for a leg of hope in these dark
days… and you bring it all back home… freedom from the ball and chain of
active addiction is a great place to start. Thanks for that perspective at
least.
showdown at the OK Corral is being broadcast 24/7… and I look out the window
at the moon-lit mountains near my home seeking some sort of balance in these
chaotic times. Right now, the beauty of the earth is winning in my conscience.
I look myself in the mirror and quite frankly have a hard time believing what I
see. I should be dead, 7 times over. I look 10 years younger than I did the
morning after my treatment, 5 years ago. That was not a pretty picture. I can
sleep tonight knowing I’ve done everything I am capable of making this a better
world to live in, yet I am restless when I turn my thoughts to BushCo, or let
the images broadcast on CNN permeate my cerebral vortex.
All I can say is I’m glad I’m off heroin. Probably take them another
6 months to turn being a heroin addict into a life in prison offense.
word, dog.
-gamma
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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 1:15:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, although I haven’t yet taken ibo, I have had my life changed
dramatically through an entheogen experience, and I daresay it saved my
life, it saved me from a life of alcoholism. So, does that qualify? I dunno
… it worked for Patrick, too, although he also took ibo. I might, too,
relatively soon, but I’m not so sure how easy it is going to be to travel to
where I need to go to take it at this point. Have the borders been shut down
yet? But we’ll see. I also agree that this doesn’t need to turn into another
war list, but the subject is all on our minds …
Anyway, I found this relatively succinct, if perhaps not necessarily
optimistic:
http://pnews.org/NWO/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=60
excerpt from the end of the article:
“Genuine change is not impossible. It is as much “blowin’ in the wind” today
as it was in the 1960s, But it will be more difficult to achieve in the era
of the single superpower on a self-righteous mission to convert the nations
of the world into subsidiaries of the Great American Corporate Empire.
“At the same time, the phenomenal enlargement of the U.S. peace movement,
augmented by the unprecedented growth of international public opinion in
opposition to Washington’s global ambitions — combined with the fracture
over Iraq developing within America’s alliance of traditional allies — is a
highly positive sign.
“The missing ingredient is a resurgence of the left in an American political
system that has drifted entirely toward the right. When this ingredient
materializes as a result of independent political action combined with mass
movements in the streets of our towns and cities, then regime change in the
U.S. may be able to contribute toward a world of peace and social harmony.
Until then, the struggle must continue — against one warmaking regime in
Washington after another.”
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
I am maybe overreacting and highly bummed. I like this list a lot and
care about the people on it. I’ve only met a real small number of you
so far but would look forward to a bigger get together some time.
I know it’s a ibogaine list and ibogaine is important. But I’m really
wondering what are all of us doing? I’m reading the exchange between
Randy and Preston and Marc and I don’t even know where I stand anymore.
Should I act with my heart and what I think is right or should I act
with my fear and go with the lesser of two evils.
I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
that brings us to a better place?
If none of us can agree on anything, I’m not sure I expect much else
from the rest of the world. In theory most of us here have done ibogaine
and are initiated into something that is supposed to be about spirituality
and a better world. But in practice I think we spend a lot of time arguing
with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of course.
So what now?
Peace out,
Curtis
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what next?
Date: March 20, 2003 at 12:47:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am maybe overreacting and highly bummed. I like this list a lot and
care about the people on it. I’ve only met a real small number of you
so far but would look forward to a bigger get together some time.
I know it’s a ibogaine list and ibogaine is important. But I’m really
wondering what are all of us doing? I’m reading the exchange between
Randy and Preston and Marc and I don’t even know where I stand anymore.
Should I act with my heart and what I think is right or should I act
with my fear and go with the lesser of two evils.
I don’t mean to put anyone on the spot but Howard, what do you think
of all this? Patrick, you’re a total wise ass and run this ‘psychedelic
temple of the apocalypse’ but you never say a word about any of this,
you’re amazing at surviving, words of wisdom mr. genius? Dana, what’s
the future? Is there any course of action that all of us can agree on
that brings us to a better place?
If none of us can agree on anything, I’m not sure I expect much else
from the rest of the world. In theory most of us here have done ibogaine
and are initiated into something that is supposed to be about spirituality
and a better world. But in practice I think we spend a lot of time arguing
with each other over nothing important. Yes that includes me of course.
So what now?
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 20, 2003 at 12:31:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Congratulations! Welcome to the new world 🙂
At least some things are good.
Gamma, bro, that is some depressing shit. I don’t want to carry on and
turn this into the war list because every list i’m on is already that.
but everything is real grim right now. This sucks.
All I can say is I’m glad I’m off heroin. Probably take them another
6 months to turn being a heroin addict into a life in prison offense.
Peace out, not that anybody is.
Curtis
I do not mean to be negative and apologise for it but man I am so very
bummed out right now. This truly and massively sucks.
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:57:25 -0800 thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
wrote:
Curtis I am now two days after taking ibogaine – MY GOD ! – talk
about the
pleasure and the pain – I was in severe physical discomfort until
this
morning and now MY head is buzzing ! !
I’m still exhausted so I’ll tell you more later…… thanks & peace
out
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Here I am saying good things about hush and either I hit the wrong
key
which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I didn’t know ibogaine
existed, I was clean for years before I took it the first time last
year. I
was checking out if phantom went anywhere. Mindvox has been here
since I
think the @ sign started, years before www existed and I was on
it in 1996
to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a hacker underground system
and the
first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all of it to RCN but
kept the
domains which went nowhere but a black page. I typed phantom and
ended up
grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and taught me different
ways of
looking at my life. This is a really good place because there are
so many
people here with such different backgrounds and there is from one
extreme
patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok and ate sheets of
lsd, came
back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some 12 step people who
I like too
and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to offer and most have
been where
we’ve been at or are there are trying to get out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you and then stick around
🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat line, venting line,
recovery
support or I think more like all of them, but it’s a good place
and it does
have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It also has angry
persons, per
sons who write something to make everyone mad then leave, persons
who are in
much of their own pain and trying to get off heroin. But it really
is a good
place in that everyone I think means well and nobody here is selling
anything. That’s not true either I think alot sell ibogaine or treatment
but
not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose messages I keep.
And there
is almost always something I find useful in what is said here that
lets me
look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest 😉 No I’m not a
12 stepper,
it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t handle that. But I
am handling
my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not think I would be saying
that a
few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two copies of my message
go through
then you got twice my thoughts for the same price 😉
Peace out,
Curtis
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] all part of the master plan
Date: March 19, 2003 at 11:26:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.dtic.mil/jv2010/jvpub.htm
download the PDF at above URL and read about the Joint Chiefs of Staff’s vision
for the new american century, a nicely packaged sample of the “Shock and Awe”
initiative.
sig heil.
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 11:18:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Medical Marijuana is not the only issue that our nation faces.
Medical Marijuana is the LEAST of our worries in the merging of corporate and
state. Consider the ability of fascist war mongers who now occupy the white
house to declare martial law across the nation under the guise of national
security in the face of alledged terrorist attacks, and all that martial law
and the newly embedded “patriot acts” stand for. Put that in the proverbial
pipe and smoke it.
I love America and the values set forth in the bill of rights and the original
constitution, but I cannot support the corporate thugs who have taken command
of the executive and military branches of our government, not to mention the
corporate media spin doctors. Deceitful criminals in a game whos stakes are
none other than global domination of forced democracy.
I must reflect on how this country was built… upon the dead bodies of the
once great nation of the beautiful native americans… and I conclude that not
a whole lot has changed over the centuries. Those in power will stop at nothing
to get what they want… to further cause of empire. Of course all this in the
name of freedom and national security.
-gamma
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 11:06:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Bro these are very strange days. I don’t even know what my response is.
I’m not sure I’m ready to just throw it all in and stop voting my beliefs.
My beliefs are with the greens, marijuana party, libertarians, democrats.
In that order. But in the face of reality the only choice there that
has any chance are the dems.
Does this mean it’s time to give up what I really believe in?
I don’t have the answer to that one. But that is happening in the world
is not good. Maybe all the apocalpytic visions and theories are not that
wrong and it’s all ending in 2012. I dont so much believe that, but the
world right now is a much darker place then it was 2 years ago. My only
hope is that the recession will get bush out of office in 2004. But I
am not so sure.
I am very much getting the impression that the war on drugs, helping
anyone who is on drugs get ibogaine or anything of that sort, is going
to be moving even lower on the priority list then it has been. Moving
any lower then it already was means nobody at all is going to care except
for some small number of people like us.
Nobody cares about drug addicts. That number is going to get even smaller.
Smaller then nobody is real small.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:16:44 -0800 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Preston,
I will still try to create change with my money and my voice. But
my vote
will now go towards strategy as opposed to heart. This situation
reminds me
of elementary school when we would elect class president. All the
boys
would rally behind the most popular boy and all the girls would
vote for
their best friend. The boys always won.
My new version of protesting the war and other causes that I support
will
start by campaigning for a canidate who can actually WIN.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 11:00:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum – Watch CBS’ NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT – Grateful
Date: March 19, 2003 at 10:27:28 PM EST
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine
and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and
respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.” He went on
to explain: “It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for
the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those
years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a
world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and
world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination
practiced in past centuries.”
–David Rockefeller speaking at the June 1991 Bilderberger meeting in Baden
Baden, Germany (a meeting also attended by then Governor Bill Clinton and
Dan Quayle).
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 7:28:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You give up hope, you think you haven’t done any good, you vote out of fear,
you live out of fear, you live with fear, you live in fear. You forget hope,
you forego better solutions, you give up.
You live with yourself.
I can look at myself in the mirror each morning, and I like what I see. Do
you?
Most of your shift in position is exactly what the two big corporate-owned
parties expect. You have come full circle, and now you are right where they
need you, want you, and you’ve lived up to their expectations. The Democrats
did a brilliant job blaming Nader for their own shortcomings, and for Bush’s
problems. Less than 5% of the vote can cause Gore to lose? Well, gee, maybe
he didn’t run a very good campaign. Or, maybe he actually did win, and Nader
got the blame anyway …
Good luck.
– jt
—– Original Message —–
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Randy,
Howard Dean vetoed a medical marijuana bill in his state. That will make
him
very unattractive to the cannabis culture.
Medical Marijuana is not the only issue that our nation faces. In the last
election I cast my vote with my consciousness and voted for my party’s
candidate, Ralph Nader. And now I, along with millions of other liberals,
have learned a hard lesson. In a two-partied democracy there is not room
for a third party. The world is much worse today than it would have been if
Al Gore were our president. In the future I will always vote against my
fear. The evil is much worse than the mediocre.
I hope by next fall we have a US Marijuana Presidential candidate on the
ballot in Vermont, if thats where you live, or in whatever state you live.
And what, waste a vote on a party that will never win in my country?
Howard Dean has no credentials to be a presidential candidate.
Let’s see, he is the Governor of a state, duh! And what are your credentials
to be a mayor? Selling pot seeds? Posing as some saint by giving away free
ibo treatments?
You are one shallow being there, Randy.
Marc Emery
You don’t know me; and you have the nerve to call me shallow. This is very
ironic in regards to the atmosphere and conversation on this list about you.
Marc, you finally lost my vote and even more my respect.
Preston, I am giving up protesting the Iraq war for a well thought out
reason. I have been demonstrating since the anti-war movement started this
time around. I marched with a half million people in San Francisco, and
with several thousands at many different events here in San Diego. I have
passed out leaflets on the street and passed along enough anti-war emails to
annoy all of my recipients. I mailed bags of rice to the white house. The
Bush agenda moved on in face of mass opposition. Now that the war will
start there is not a hope for me to try to stop it. The best I can do is
ensuring that we won’t live under this tyrant for four more years.
Protesting this war will be a waste of my energy. Campaigning for the only
democrat with enough sense to voice opposition to Bush is the best
opportunity I see on the horizon to get Bush out of office. So I am going
to switch my energy towards a productive goal.
The drug war is my primary focus. I donate my money to the DPA. Maybe
after we get the right wing out of office we can get a wise man like Dean to
start making some significant progress in support of individual’s rights.
Even though Dean did veto medical marijuana in his own state he wouldn’t be
sending the feds into my state to arrest my fellow activist. If Bush wins
the next ellection then we can all kiss any hopes for drug users
rights’goodbye for another four years.
Dana, Yes Dean is a MD. Hopefully as more research is released about
ibogaine he will take the time to learn the importance/significance of
ibogaine. And hopefully he will come around on Medical Marijauna. Maybe
his veto was a political ploy. I don’t know.
I know there are many other liberals on this list who vote with their
conscious. I hope that you all will see that our system does not allow for
this. By voting for Nader, I lost my voice entirely. If we lived in a
parliamentary system we could vote with our conscious and we would get a few
seats. But we Americans don’t live under a parliamentary democracy. George
W. has taught me the lesson of voting for the lesser of two evils. As fore
mentioned I will always vote with my fear.
Randy
From: “thebozman” <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 19, 2003 at 4:57:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Curtis I am now two days after taking ibogaine – MY GOD ! – talk about the
pleasure and the pain – I was in severe physical discomfort until this
morning and now MY head is buzzing ! !
I’m still exhausted so I’ll tell you more later…… thanks & peace out
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:49 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Here I am saying good things about hush and either I hit the wrong key
which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I didn’t know ibogaine
existed, I was clean for years before I took it the first time last year. I
was checking out if phantom went anywhere. Mindvox has been here since I
think the @ sign started, years before www existed and I was on it in 1996
to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a hacker underground system and the
first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all of it to RCN but kept the
domains which went nowhere but a black page. I typed phantom and ended up
grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and taught me different ways of
looking at my life. This is a really good place because there are so many
people here with such different backgrounds and there is from one extreme
patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok and ate sheets of lsd, came
back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some 12 step people who I like too
and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to offer and most have been where
we’ve been at or are there are trying to get out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you and then stick around 🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat line, venting line, recovery
support or I think more like all of them, but it’s a good place and it does
have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It also has angry persons, per
sons who write something to make everyone mad then leave, persons who are in
much of their own pain and trying to get off heroin. But it really is a good
place in that everyone I think means well and nobody here is selling
anything. That’s not true either I think alot sell ibogaine or treatment but
not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose messages I keep. And there
is almost always something I find useful in what is said here that lets me
look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest 😉 No I’m not a 12 stepper,
it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t handle that. But I am handling
my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not think I would be saying that a
few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two copies of my message go through
then you got twice my thoughts for the same price 😉
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 2:16:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston,
I will still try to create change with my money and my voice. But my vote will now go towards strategy as opposed to heart. This situation reminds me of elementary school when we would elect class president. All the boys would rally behind the most popular boy and all the girls would vote for their best friend. The boys always won.
My new version of protesting the war and other causes that I support will start by campaigning for a canidate who can actually WIN.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 1:50:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
to heck
with your conscience and vote for the lesser of two
evils? No offense Randy,
but that strikes me as a sure fire way to never
effect change in any area.
Preston, in retrospect I would rather have been Gored
than BUSHED, I voted Nader, I live in Florida, I feel
like I did my part to allow asshole to be president.
Looking at the end result if I had to do it all over
again I would have voted Gore (he is boring, has the
personality of a paper plate, but is mostly harmless).
The only SURE FIRE (to change) way is to WAKE UP the
American people to the lies both the parties/gov’t has
been feeding us and the need for the Drug war, the War
on Terrorism, the “Land of the Free” which has more
people per capita in prison than any other country…
Something is wrong with this picture and the American
people are (on the one hand) digging in deeper and on
the other hand waking up – the RIFT between the two is
getting wider, more people are WAKING UP and others
are hiding in fear/sinking in deeper. Just look at the
fat folks getting fatter, obesity becoming the #1
killer (and you think Drugs are the problem lady…
how about your porker child on insulin) and Micky D’s
is going down the tubes because people are WAKING UP.
So it is written for the end of times… Truth vs
lies, love vs hate, good vs evil… the rift will get
wider, there will be more hate/killing/fear/anger, the
consumers will consume more… on the one hand and
love will spread, people will become enlightened,
truth will be told… on the other hand. Guess which
one wins (in the end)? Oh and make no mistake, it has
begun and will get worse before it gets better. The US
and company will dig in its heals with the Drug War,
War on terrorism… and the rest of the world will
look on, see themselves in horror and realize what is
going on – it may take that horror (and then some) for
them to do something, which is already happening (now
huge cracks in the Drug War). Meanwhile the US may
cease to exist as it once was (or is), maybe
thankfully…
Brett
The best I can do is
ensuring that we won’t live under this tyrant for
four more years.
Protesting this war will be a waste of my energy.
Campaigning for the only
democrat with enough sense to voice opposition to
Bush is the best
opportunity I see on the horizon to get Bush out of
office. So I am going
to switch my energy towards a productive goal. The
drug war is my primary
focus.
I donate my money to the DPA. Maybe
after we get the right wing out of office we can get
a wise man like Dean to
start making some significant progress in support of
individual’s rights.
Even though Dean did veto medical marijuana in his
own state he wouldn’t be
sending the feds into my state to arrest my fellow
activist. If Bush wins
the next ellection then we can all kiss any hopes
for drug users
rights’goodbye for another four years.<
And under Democrats like Clinton, the US prison
population soared, and the
money sent around the world to wage war on some
drugs and those who use/grow
them only increased, as our corporations (and
military either skimmed the
books or changed computing programs loosing lotsa
currently unaccountable
money) and ripped of the investors and etc. etc.
No Demorepublicrats are worth my vote in my own
mind.
By voting for Nader, I lost my voice entirely. <
No way Randy. By voting for Nader, you proved you
have heart and mind and
soul, and honestly believe in democracy. Whether
that’s a good thing or not
I’m not sure, but I personally like that.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Randy Hencken
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the
war?
Randy,
Howard Dean vetoed a medical marijuana bill in his
state. That will make
him
very unattractive to the cannabis culture.
Medical Marijuana is not the only issue that our
nation faces. In the last
election I cast my vote with my consciousness and
voted for my party’s
candidate, Ralph Nader. And now I, along with
millions of other liberals,
have learned a hard lesson. In a two-partied
democracy there is not room
for a third party. The world is much worse today
than it would have been if
Al Gore were our president. In the future I will
always vote against my
fear. The evil is much worse than the mediocre.
I hope by next fall we have a US Marijuana
Presidential candidate on the
ballot in Vermont, if thats where you live, or in
whatever state you live.
And what, waste a vote on a party that will never
win in my country?
Howard Dean has no credentials to be a presidential
candidate.
Let’s see, he is the Governor of a state, duh! And
what are your credentials
to be a mayor? Selling pot seeds? Posing as some
saint by giving away free
ibo treatments?
You are one shallow being there, Randy.
Marc Emery
You don’t know me; and you have the nerve to call me
shallow. This is very
ironic in regards to the atmosphere and conversation
on this list about you.
Marc, you finally lost my vote and even more my
respect.
Preston, I am giving up protesting the Iraq war for
a well thought out
reason. I have been demonstrating since the
anti-war movement started this
time around. I marched with a half million people
in San Francisco, and
with several thousands at many different events here
in San Diego. I have
passed out leaflets on the street and passed along
enough anti-war emails to
annoy all of my recipients. I mailed bags of rice
to the white house. The
Bush agenda moved on in face of mass opposition.
Now that the war will
start there is not a hope for me to try to stop it.
The best I can do is
ensuring that we won’t live under this tyrant for
four more years.
Protesting this war will be a waste of my energy.
Campaigning for the only
democrat with enough sense to voice opposition to
Bush is the best
opportunity I see on the horizon to get Bush out of
office. So I am going
to switch my energy towards a productive goal.
The drug war is my primary focus. I donate my money
to the DPA. Maybe
after we get the right wing out of office we can get
a wise man like Dean to
start making some significant progress in support of
individual’s rights.
Even though Dean did veto medical marijuana in his
own state he wouldn’t be
sending the feds into my state to arrest my fellow
activist. If Bush wins
the next ellection then we can all kiss any hopes
for drug users
rights’goodbye for another four years.
Dana, Yes Dean is a MD. Hopefully as more research
is released about
ibogaine he will take the time to learn the
importance/significance of
ibogaine. And hopefully he will come around on
Medical Marijauna. Maybe
his veto was a political ploy. I don’t know.
I know there are many other liberals on this list
who vote with their
conscious. I hope that you all will see that our
system does not allow for
this. By voting for Nader, I lost my voice
entirely. If we lived in a
parliamentary system we could vote with our
conscious and we would get a few
seats. But we Americans don’t live under a
parliamentary democracy. George
W. has taught me the lesson of voting for the lesser
of two evils. As fore
mentioned I will always vote with my fear.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 1:05:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
And now I, along with millions of other liberals,
have learned a hard lesson. In a two-partied democracy there is not room
for a third party…<
and there won’t be until people stop thinking that they must vote AGAINST
someone instead of FOR someone.
So, what you’re saying is that since voting your conscience in 2000 and
not getting what you wanted, (and what we, in my own mind, needed), to heck
with your conscience and vote for the lesser of two evils? No offense Randy,
but that strikes me as a sure fire way to never effect change in any area.
The best I can do is
ensuring that we won’t live under this tyrant for four more years.
Protesting this war will be a waste of my energy. Campaigning for the only
democrat with enough sense to voice opposition to Bush is the best
opportunity I see on the horizon to get Bush out of office. So I am going
to switch my energy towards a productive goal. The drug war is my primary
focus.
I donate my money to the DPA. Maybe
after we get the right wing out of office we can get a wise man like Dean to
start making some significant progress in support of individual’s rights.
Even though Dean did veto medical marijuana in his own state he wouldn’t be
sending the feds into my state to arrest my fellow activist. If Bush wins
the next ellection then we can all kiss any hopes for drug users
rights’goodbye for another four years.<
And under Democrats like Clinton, the US prison population soared, and the
money sent around the world to wage war on some drugs and those who use/grow
them only increased, as our corporations (and military either skimmed the
books or changed computing programs loosing lotsa currently unaccountable
money) and ripped of the investors and etc. etc.
No Demorepublicrats are worth my vote in my own mind.
By voting for Nader, I lost my voice entirely. <
No way Randy. By voting for Nader, you proved you have heart and mind and
soul, and honestly believe in democracy. Whether that’s a good thing or not
I’m not sure, but I personally like that.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Randy Hencken
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Randy,
Howard Dean vetoed a medical marijuana bill in his state. That will make
him
very unattractive to the cannabis culture.
Medical Marijuana is not the only issue that our nation faces. In the last
election I cast my vote with my consciousness and voted for my party’s
candidate, Ralph Nader. And now I, along with millions of other liberals,
have learned a hard lesson. In a two-partied democracy there is not room
for a third party. The world is much worse today than it would have been if
Al Gore were our president. In the future I will always vote against my
fear. The evil is much worse than the mediocre.
I hope by next fall we have a US Marijuana Presidential candidate on the
ballot in Vermont, if thats where you live, or in whatever state you live.
And what, waste a vote on a party that will never win in my country?
Howard Dean has no credentials to be a presidential candidate.
Let’s see, he is the Governor of a state, duh! And what are your credentials
to be a mayor? Selling pot seeds? Posing as some saint by giving away free
ibo treatments?
You are one shallow being there, Randy.
Marc Emery
You don’t know me; and you have the nerve to call me shallow. This is very
ironic in regards to the atmosphere and conversation on this list about you.
Marc, you finally lost my vote and even more my respect.
Preston, I am giving up protesting the Iraq war for a well thought out
reason. I have been demonstrating since the anti-war movement started this
time around. I marched with a half million people in San Francisco, and
with several thousands at many different events here in San Diego. I have
passed out leaflets on the street and passed along enough anti-war emails to
annoy all of my recipients. I mailed bags of rice to the white house. The
Bush agenda moved on in face of mass opposition. Now that the war will
start there is not a hope for me to try to stop it. The best I can do is
ensuring that we won’t live under this tyrant for four more years.
Protesting this war will be a waste of my energy. Campaigning for the only
democrat with enough sense to voice opposition to Bush is the best
opportunity I see on the horizon to get Bush out of office. So I am going
to switch my energy towards a productive goal.
The drug war is my primary focus. I donate my money to the DPA. Maybe
after we get the right wing out of office we can get a wise man like Dean to
start making some significant progress in support of individual’s rights.
Even though Dean did veto medical marijuana in his own state he wouldn’t be
sending the feds into my state to arrest my fellow activist. If Bush wins
the next ellection then we can all kiss any hopes for drug users
rights’goodbye for another four years.
Dana, Yes Dean is a MD. Hopefully as more research is released about
ibogaine he will take the time to learn the importance/significance of
ibogaine. And hopefully he will come around on Medical Marijauna. Maybe
his veto was a political ploy. I don’t know.
I know there are many other liberals on this list who vote with their
conscious. I hope that you all will see that our system does not allow for
this. By voting for Nader, I lost my voice entirely. If we lived in a
parliamentary system we could vote with our conscious and we would get a few
seats. But we Americans don’t live under a parliamentary democracy. George
W. has taught me the lesson of voting for the lesser of two evils. As fore
mentioned I will always vote with my fear.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 11:25:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy,
Howard Dean vetoed a medical marijuana bill in his state. That will make him
very unattractive to the cannabis culture.
Medical Marijuana is not the only issue that our nation faces. In the last election I cast my vote with my consciousness and voted for my party’s candidate, Ralph Nader. And now I, along with millions of other liberals, have learned a hard lesson. In a two-partied democracy there is not room for a third party. The world is much worse today than it would have been if Al Gore were our president. In the future I will always vote against my fear. The evil is much worse than the mediocre.
I hope by next fall we have a US Marijuana Presidential candidate on the
ballot in Vermont, if thats where you live, or in whatever state you live.
And what, waste a vote on a party that will never win in my country?
Howard Dean has no credentials to be a presidential candidate.
Let’s see, he is the Governor of a state, duh! And what are your credentials to be a mayor? Selling pot seeds? Posing as some saint by giving away free ibo treatments?
You are one shallow being there, Randy.
Marc Emery
You don’t know me; and you have the nerve to call me shallow. This is very ironic in regards to the atmosphere and conversation on this list about you. Marc, you finally lost my vote and even more my respect.
Preston, I am giving up protesting the Iraq war for a well thought out reason. I have been demonstrating since the anti-war movement started this time around. I marched with a half million people in San Francisco, and with several thousands at many different events here in San Diego. I have passed out leaflets on the street and passed along enough anti-war emails to annoy all of my recipients. I mailed bags of rice to the white house. The Bush agenda moved on in face of mass opposition. Now that the war will start there is not a hope for me to try to stop it. The best I can do is ensuring that we won’t live under this tyrant for four more years. Protesting this war will be a waste of my energy. Campaigning for the only democrat with enough sense to voice opposition to Bush is the best opportunity I see on the horizon to get Bush out of office. So I am going to switch my energy towards a productive goal.
The drug war is my primary focus. I donate my money to the DPA. Maybe after we get the right wing out of office we can get a wise man like Dean to start making some significant progress in support of individuals rights. Even though Dean did veto medical marijuana in his own state he wouldnt be sending the feds into my state to arrest my fellow activist. If Bush wins the next ellection then we can all kiss any hopes for drug users rights’goodbye for another four years.
Dana, Yes Dean is a MD. Hopefully as more research is released about ibogaine he will take the time to learn the importance/significance of ibogaine. And hopefully he will come around on Medical Marijauna. Maybe his veto was a political ploy. I dont know.
I know there are many other liberals on this list who vote with their conscious. I hope that you all will see that our system does not allow for this. By voting for Nader, I lost my voice entirely. If we lived in a parliamentary system we could vote with our conscious and we would get a few seats. But we Americans dont live under a parliamentary democracy. George W. has taught me the lesson of voting for the lesser of two evils. As fore mentioned I will always vote with my fear.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (WAY OT) Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 10:15:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Instead of protesting, I urge you all to become
involved in your communities <
why would it have to be an either/or situation? Why not do both? Or even
more?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Randy Hencken
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 3:31 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
The war is inevitable. I hope that our military
accomplishes the tasks that have been promised to us
by President George W. Bush successfully and with as
little casualties as possible. All the while we will
know that a more suitable, diplomatic and peaceful
path could have been followed. Tonight I feel that
there is no longer a need for me to protest the war.
I must support my nation. I love The United States of
America; I see many great things for the future of our
country and our planet.
In the next election I cannot cast my vote for a
president who cannot win. I give my support to the
Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean, for Democratic
President in 2004.
Instead of protesting, I urge you all to become
involved in your communities in support of Governor
Howard Dean. Instead of protesting, I made a
contribution to his campaign tonight. Instead of
protesting, I ask you to contribute.
I hope you share this email with your
families and friends.
Please visit Governor Dean’s website:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
From: “Rick” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 10:27:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As I said back in February…the war was a done deal. Everything else
was merely the drama that needed to be played out in order to manipulate
the masses…and a host of other things. The horned one will begin his
games at exactly 8pm tonight (EST), which is 12am at the international
dateline…the vernal equanox…the first day of Spring. The three
goats will ride out “to bring forth peace by restoring the earth back to
spring-time.” Or so they believe. They would make themselves like God,
and save the world by destroying it. They provide the conflicts, and
then provide the solutions, and all the while the people slumber…but
in the end the Armies of the one true King will return and triumph.
To those who know what I am talking about, and understand the
synchronicities…I’m not exactly sure what I am supposed to do with all
that I am given to see. Any suggestions?
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 9:54:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Howard Dean is opposed to medical marijuana. No one knows what his
position is on Ibogaine, but he’s a medical doctor who’s skeptical of
medications that come via unorthodox sources, so you figure it out.
Dana/cnw
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 4:12:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kucinich http://Kucinich.us seems like a ray of hope, but I keep pressing
him about the med mj question and the Drug War in general, and he hasn’t
released a statement yet, but said he would soon. However, I can’t get a
simple answer, which is frustrating. Also, unfortunately, Kucinich is not
quite presidential material, but it has less to do with his platform than it
does with his appearance. He doesn’t look like he’d ever become president –
just way too boyish – and he doesn’t have the family name like the boyish
Dubya did. I know that’s shallow, but that’s political reality in the age of
television. He’s also a bit too optimistic in his overall outlook to be
considered for the nomination – he is no JFK. However, if the Dems nominate
a centrist, hawkish, corporate-owned, politically-DOA candidate like
Lieberman, then they are doomed for another four years. I haven’t been a
Democrat for over a decade, and the options aren’t looking so good right now
for me to come back to the party. Am more of a libertarian-green (yes, there
is such a thing) than a Democrat or Republican, and I never vote for the
“lesser of two evils.” However, even if I were to do that in ’04, there
isn’t anyone on the horizon that looks promising at the moment.
I wish Rep. Ron Paul http://www.house.gov/paul/ would run, but called his
office, and an assistant told me he has no desire to run. Which actually
makes him the perfect candidate, but if he won’t run then it’s a bit of a
catch 22. If only people could write him in the way they did Washington, who
also didn’t want to run, but this isn’t 1776 …
– jt
—– Original Message —–
From: “A J Dietterle” <ajdietterle@dccnet.com>
Randy,
Howard Dean vetoed a medical marijuana bill in his state. That will make him
very unattractive to the cannabis culture.
I hope by next fall we have a US Marijuana Presidential candidate on the
ballot in Vermont, if thats where you live, or in whatever state you live.
Howard Dean has no credentials to be a presidential candidate.
” Instead of protesting (the war), I made a donation to his campaign
tonight.”, you say.
You are one shallow being there, Randy.
Marc Emery
on 3/19/03 12:31 AM, Randy Hencken at randyhencken@hotmail.com wrote:
The war is inevitable. I hope that our military
accomplishes the tasks that have been promised to us
by President George W. Bush successfully and with as
little casualties as possible. All the while we will
know that a more suitable, diplomatic and peaceful
path could have been followed. Tonight I feel that
there is no longer a need for me to protest the war.
I must support my nation. I love The United States of
America; I see many great things for the future of our
country and our planet.
In the next election I cannot cast my vote for a
president who cannot win. I give my support to the
Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean, for Democratic
President in 2004.
Instead of protesting, I urge you all to become
involved in your communities in support of Governor
Howard Dean. Instead of protesting, I made a
contribution to his campaign tonight. Instead of
protesting, I ask you to contribute.
I hope you share this email with your
families and friends.
Please visit Governor Dean’s website:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
From: A J Dietterle <ajdietterle@dccnet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 3:43:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy,
Howard Dean vetoed a medical marijuana bill in his state. That will make him
very unattractive to the cannabis culture.
I hope by next fall we have a US Marijuana Presidential candidate on the
ballot in Vermont, if thats where you live, or in whatever state you live.
Howard Dean has no credentials to be a presidential candidate.
” Instead of protesting (the war), I made a donation to his campaign
tonight.”, you say.
You are one shallow being there, Randy.
Marc Emery
on 3/19/03 12:31 AM, Randy Hencken at randyhencken@hotmail.com wrote:
The war is inevitable. I hope that our military
accomplishes the tasks that have been promised to us
by President George W. Bush successfully and with as
little casualties as possible. All the while we will
know that a more suitable, diplomatic and peaceful
path could have been followed. Tonight I feel that
there is no longer a need for me to protest the war.
I must support my nation. I love The United States of
America; I see many great things for the future of our
country and our planet.
In the next election I cannot cast my vote for a
president who cannot win. I give my support to the
Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean, for Democratic
President in 2004.
Instead of protesting, I urge you all to become
involved in your communities in support of Governor
Howard Dean. Instead of protesting, I made a
contribution to his campaign tonight. Instead of
protesting, I ask you to contribute.
I hope you share this email with your
families and friends.
Please visit Governor Dean’s website:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] What can we do about the war?
Date: March 19, 2003 at 3:31:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The war is inevitable. I hope that our military
accomplishes the tasks that have been promised to us
by President George W. Bush successfully and with as
little casualties as possible. All the while we will
know that a more suitable, diplomatic and peaceful
path could have been followed. Tonight I feel that
there is no longer a need for me to protest the war.
I must support my nation. I love The United States of
America; I see many great things for the future of our
country and our planet.
In the next election I cannot cast my vote for a
president who cannot win. I give my support to the
Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean, for Democratic
President in 2004.
Instead of protesting, I urge you all to become
involved in your communities in support of Governor
Howard Dean. Instead of protesting, I made a
contribution to his campaign tonight. Instead of
protesting, I ask you to contribute.
I hope you share this email with your
families and friends.
Please visit Governor Deans website:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] support needed/final project request
Date: March 18, 2003 at 5:40:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I want to thank those of you who have contributed to help fund an ibogaine
presentation at the American Association for the Treatment of Opioid
Dependence conference. And, I do not want additional funding from those of
you who have already been helpful. However, if you understand the benefits
of getting ibogaine information into the methadone treatment system, the time
to support that is now.
Please see the original message below.
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 1/14/03 7:52:27 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
Dear list,
I have been provided a unique opportunity to present on ibogaine at the
largest methadone conference in the United States. My topic is “Methadone
and Ibogaine: A Historic Comparison of Patient Status and Advocacy Issues”.
The
American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence (AATOD)
conference where I will be presenting will take place in Washington, DC,
April 13 – 16, 2003. The workshop in which I will be presenting is titled
“Medication Assisted Treatment in Different Practice Settings.”…I guess
that sure says it!
Financial support for this project is needed to cover conference costs,
research, preparation of slides, handouts and other material including a
presentation brochure. This is a very large conference. Between 200 and 300
persons are anticipated to attend the workshop for which they can receive CME
or CEU credits. These continuing education credits make the workshop more
attractive to conference participants. This is the first time that ibogaine
will be presented at a major methadone conference. Costs are approximated at
$7,500.00, and donations can be provided as tax deductible contributions to
the Dora Weiner Foundation.
This is a fantastic opportunity to get ibogaine and ibogaine patient
information to methadone patients, advocates, counselors, social workers and
treatment providers. The National Alliance of Methadone Advocates (NAMA) is
also assisting in sponsoring this presentation as part of their workshop.
NAMA is the largest national and international association of methadone and
other opioid agonist treatment patients and advocates. NAMA is a patients’
rights advocacy organization.
In addition to the benefits of providing ibogaine information to an important
international audience, donors of over $500.00 will be listed in the Ibogaine
Brochure to be distributed at the Workshop and may include contact
information and a web page address if desired. The entire patient community
on both sides of the medication line will benefit from an ibogaine
presentation at a methadone conference. This is a win win situation so
please make a donation.
For further information about the conference presentation and to learn about
the Dora Weiner Foundation’s mission goto:
<http://www.ibogaine.org/dc.html>. From there link to the Dora Weiner
Foundation page from the link on <ibogaine.org/dc.html >. If you want to
miss the fun, just goto <http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod.html> and work your
way to the donation page. Or if you really don’t have time just write a
check or money order in US dollars on a US bank to THE DORA WEINER
FOUNDATION, 46 Oxford Place, Staten Island, NY 10301, USA. And, please don’t
forget to mail it. If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
Looking forward your responses.
Thanks
Howard
Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Ecstasy ‘link to depression’
Date: March 18, 2003 at 10:44:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —–
From: Jules Siegel
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:30 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Ecstasy ‘link to depression’
Amazing how the possibility that the depressed take Ecstasy because they are
depressed is ignored in the following:
Ecstasy ‘link to depression’
Taking just one ecstasy tablet is enough to make you depressed, a study
suggests.
Story from BBC NEWS:
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/2848489.stm>
Published: 2003/03/16 00:53:51
© BBC MMIII
[Excerpt]
Researchers at London Metropolitan University have found that people who
take ecstasy are more likely to suffer depression compared to non-users and
even people who use other drugs.
Their study also indicates that heavy users of the drug are at risk of
becoming clinically depressed.
The researchers believe ecstasy has a long-lasting impact on key chemicals
in the brain, which regulate mood.
<]=———————————————————————–=[
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com ]
| -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
| To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[ DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com ]
<]=———————————————————————–=[
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] U.S. Seeks $289 Billion in Cigarette Makers’ Profits
Date: March 18, 2003 at 10:18:31 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks to Jules Siegel for bringing this one to my attention.
Peace,
Preston
U.S. Seeks $289 Billion in Cigarette Makers’ Profits
<http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/national/18TOBA.html?pagewanted=2>
By Eric Lichtblau
[Excerpt]
A 1982 interoffice memorandum from officials at the R. J. Reynolds Tobacco
Company, discussing a competitor’s new “low tar” brand, said: “Such products
could (and would) be advertised as ‘tar-free,’ ‘zero-milligrams F.T.C. tar,’
or ‘the ultimate low-tar cigarette,’ while actually delivering 20-, 30-,
40-mg or more `tar’ when used by a human smoker!” the Justice Department
quoted the memorandum as saying.
“Such cigarettes, while deceptive in the extreme, would be very difficult
for the consumer to resist, since they would provide everything that we
presently believe makes for desirable products: taste, ‘punch,’ ease of draw
and ‘low FTC tar,’ ” the memorandum said.
—
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Date: March 17, 2003 at 10:16:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc,
Thanks, I was wondering how uncomfortable they were
before treatment was started. I didn’t see a “test”
dose so was also wondering if you had given that
earlier then waited some more. Yes, the longer you
wait, the lower the blood level of junk… the better.
Thanks,
Brett
— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
I wanted to wait until he was in a minor degree of
discomfort, but before
the nasty physical withdrawl started. Wanted to run
the methadone level down
as much as possible before the ibogaine detox, as I
knew the long lasting
opiate (methadone) is much more determined to stay
in the system than
morphine or heroin, and treatment will involve more
ibogaine, more time, and
some degree of discomfort. Also 300 mg. of methadone
a day is a fantastic
large amount to be taking daily, and we needed every
advantage to treat it.
By 52 hours, he felt crappy but was not nauseous or
puking.
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Marc,
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg.
methadone dose, we gave him
What is your criteria for waiting (seems a bit
long)?
What was the patients comfort level before iboga
treatment started.
Great job by the way.
Thanks,
Brett
5,200 mg Indra extract
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no
physical
withdrawl as per usual
(in other words, no shitting, vomitting, sweats,
running nose, pounding
headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract,
we
gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
Hydrochloride
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract,
we
gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine
hydrochloride
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract,
we
gave him 3,800 mg. Indra
extract
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract,
we
gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract,
we
gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300
mg.
methadone dose), he was
bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of
any
methadone, no withdrawl
or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient
said
“I like the way I’m
thinking now”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25
pounds.
Looks robust, healthy
skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he
commented”. The ibogaine is
returning him to his regular body weight I feel.
Patient left for home in Maine on day 12. Health
continues to show even
further progress & improvement.
I have accompanied two people through cold
turkey
methadone withdrawl and
heroin withdrawl years ago, and the difference
is
shockingly different. With
regular withdrawl, the person lay in the
bathtub,
sweating, pounding
headache, shitting, puking, never getting up out
of
the bathtub for over 3
days, screaming, crying, etc. Very unhappy and
scary. (I literally had to
hose him down with warm water to clean him. It
was
so sad).
With ibogaine, the patient felt a tolerable
malaise
from hour 24 to hour 192
after first dose of Indra extract, but never any
overt physical withdrawl
symptoms.
This was our most extreme detox ever, as most
opiate
dependent persons
require much less and feel very good at hour 48
after Indra extract
administration (and they are ‘out’ prior to
that,
not in physical
discomfort), but they are on 20 mg. – 120 mg.
daily
of heroin or methadone.
Methadone is more challenging to clear but it is
possible with a more
rigorous regimen.
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: “Laurie Kardon” <lauriekardon@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
hi, could anyone tell me if there is any
reason I
would want to mix ibogaine hcl and indra at
the
same
time?
thanks. I know taking indra after hcl when
your
getting off methadone can be helpful, or doing
hcl
a
few times in a row. but i havent heard of hcl
and
indra at the same time before but a person
here
who
did it to get off methadone says it worked
really
well.
thanks again
laurie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you’ll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting – establish your business
online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting – establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Date: March 16, 2003 at 9:02:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I wanted to wait until he was in a minor degree of discomfort, but before
the nasty physical withdrawl started. Wanted to run the methadone level down
as much as possible before the ibogaine detox, as I knew the long lasting
opiate (methadone) is much more determined to stay in the system than
morphine or heroin, and treatment will involve more ibogaine, more time, and
some degree of discomfort. Also 300 mg. of methadone a day is a fantastic
large amount to be taking daily, and we needed every advantage to treat it.
By 52 hours, he felt crappy but was not nauseous or puking.
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Marc,
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg.
methadone dose, we gave him
What is your criteria for waiting (seems a bit long)?
What was the patients comfort level before iboga
treatment started.
Great job by the way.
Thanks,
Brett
5,200 mg Indra extract
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical
withdrawl as per usual
(in other words, no shitting, vomitting, sweats,
running nose, pounding
headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
Hydrochloride
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine
hydrochloride
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 3,800 mg. Indra
extract
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg.
methadone dose), he was
bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any
methadone, no withdrawl
or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said
“I like the way I’m
thinking now”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds.
Looks robust, healthy
skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he
commented”. The ibogaine is
returning him to his regular body weight I feel.
Patient left for home in Maine on day 12. Health
continues to show even
further progress & improvement.
I have accompanied two people through cold turkey
methadone withdrawl and
heroin withdrawl years ago, and the difference is
shockingly different. With
regular withdrawl, the person lay in the bathtub,
sweating, pounding
headache, shitting, puking, never getting up out of
the bathtub for over 3
days, screaming, crying, etc. Very unhappy and
scary. (I literally had to
hose him down with warm water to clean him. It was
so sad).
With ibogaine, the patient felt a tolerable malaise
from hour 24 to hour 192
after first dose of Indra extract, but never any
overt physical withdrawl
symptoms.
This was our most extreme detox ever, as most opiate
dependent persons
require much less and feel very good at hour 48
after Indra extract
administration (and they are ‘out’ prior to that,
not in physical
discomfort), but they are on 20 mg. – 120 mg. daily
of heroin or methadone.
Methadone is more challenging to clear but it is
possible with a more
rigorous regimen.
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: “Laurie Kardon” <lauriekardon@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
hi, could anyone tell me if there is any reason I
would want to mix ibogaine hcl and indra at the
same
time?
thanks. I know taking indra after hcl when your
getting off methadone can be helpful, or doing hcl
a
few times in a row. but i havent heard of hcl and
indra at the same time before but a person here
who
did it to get off methadone says it worked really
well.
thanks again
laurie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you’ll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting – establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Date: March 16, 2003 at 10:18:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Marc,
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg.
methadone dose, we gave him
What is your criteria for waiting (seems a bit long)?
What was the patients comfort level before iboga
treatment started.
Great job by the way.
Thanks,
Brett
5,200 mg Indra extract
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical
withdrawl as per usual
(in other words, no shitting, vomitting, sweats,
running nose, pounding
headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
Hydrochloride
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine
hydrochloride
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 3,800 mg. Indra
extract
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we
gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg.
methadone dose), he was
bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any
methadone, no withdrawl
or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said
“I like the way I’m
thinking now”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds.
Looks robust, healthy
skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he
commented”. The ibogaine is
returning him to his regular body weight I feel.
Patient left for home in Maine on day 12. Health
continues to show even
further progress & improvement.
I have accompanied two people through cold turkey
methadone withdrawl and
heroin withdrawl years ago, and the difference is
shockingly different. With
regular withdrawl, the person lay in the bathtub,
sweating, pounding
headache, shitting, puking, never getting up out of
the bathtub for over 3
days, screaming, crying, etc. Very unhappy and
scary. (I literally had to
hose him down with warm water to clean him. It was
so sad).
With ibogaine, the patient felt a tolerable malaise
from hour 24 to hour 192
after first dose of Indra extract, but never any
overt physical withdrawl
symptoms.
This was our most extreme detox ever, as most opiate
dependent persons
require much less and feel very good at hour 48
after Indra extract
administration (and they are ‘out’ prior to that,
not in physical
discomfort), but they are on 20 mg. – 120 mg. daily
of heroin or methadone.
Methadone is more challenging to clear but it is
possible with a more
rigorous regimen.
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: “Laurie Kardon” <lauriekardon@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
hi, could anyone tell me if there is any reason I
would want to mix ibogaine hcl and indra at the
same
time?
thanks. I know taking indra after hcl when your
getting off methadone can be helpful, or doing hcl
a
few times in a row. but i havent heard of hcl and
indra at the same time before but a person here
who
did it to get off methadone says it worked really
well.
thanks again
laurie
__________________________________________________
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] “carries”
Date: March 15, 2003 at 8:19:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pubdate: Wed, 12 Mar 2003
Source: Surrey Now (CN BC)
Copyright: 2003 Lower Mainland Publishing Group Inc., A Canwest Company
Contact: canderson@thenownewspaper.com
Website: http://www.thenownewspaper.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/1462
Author: Ted Colley
‘POLICING IS OUR BUSINESS’
A controversial bylaw aimed at controlling alleged illicit activities by
some methadone-dispensing pharmacies received preliminary approval from
Surrey council Monday.
The bylaw is intended to deal with what city solicitor Craig MacFarlane
calls “unprescribed carries,” the practice of allowing recovering drug
addicts to take methadone home with them without a doctor’s approval.
Most addicts on the program are required to drink their methadone before
leaving the pharmacy but about 20 per cent are legally allowed to take
methadone home, a privilege that can only be given by the doctor treating
the addict.
Police say illegal carries are being sold or traded on the street for other
illegal drugs, adding to the crime problems facing Surrey.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n400.a04.html
——————————
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Date: March 15, 2003 at 6:21:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Laurie
hi, could anyone tell me if there is any reason I
would want to mix ibogaine hcl and indra at the same
time?
I can tell you why I do it.
Basically it is softer, smoother and richer than HCL
alone (easier on ya) and it is shorter with a better
post ibo session mood than Indra alone. Indra tends to
have more post-tx depression than HCL in my
observation, personally I was never depressed from HCL
or mixed with Indra, only Indra alone. It brings the 2
forms of ibo together, I find HCL breaks through
better but don’t quite need a skedge hammer, a bit of
each is not too hard and not too soft…
FWIW I convert to mg/kg, use 25-50% Indra by potency.
1gm of Indra would equal 200mg of HCL so if I wanted
to take 600mg (in HCL dosages) I would take 1gm of
Indra and 400mg of HCL. Vivian likes more Indra than I
do, she likes closer to 50%, I like closer to 25%
Indra.
Brett
thanks. I know taking indra after hcl when your
getting off methadone can be helpful, or doing hcl a
few times in a row. but i havent heard of hcl and
indra at the same time before but a person here who
did it to get off methadone says it worked really
well.
thanks again
laurie
__________________________________________________
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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Date: March 15, 2003 at 3:27:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
At Iboga Therapy House we have recently used the following regimen to clear
a methadone dependent person who was taking 300 mg A DAY. A staggering load
of methadone every day, more than I have ever seen.
At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him
5,200 mg Indra extract
Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawl as per usual
(in other words, no shitting, vomitting, sweats, running nose, pounding
headache) but felt miserable.
72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine
Hydrochloride
96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine
hydrochloride
120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg. Indra
extract
168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI
By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was
bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawl
or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m
thinking now”
Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy
skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is
returning him to his regular body weight I feel.
Patient left for home in Maine on day 12. Health continues to show even
further progress & improvement.
I have accompanied two people through cold turkey methadone withdrawl and
heroin withdrawl years ago, and the difference is shockingly different. With
regular withdrawl, the person lay in the bathtub, sweating, pounding
headache, shitting, puking, never getting up out of the bathtub for over 3
days, screaming, crying, etc. Very unhappy and scary. (I literally had to
hose him down with warm water to clean him. It was so sad).
With ibogaine, the patient felt a tolerable malaise from hour 24 to hour 192
after first dose of Indra extract, but never any overt physical withdrawl
symptoms.
This was our most extreme detox ever, as most opiate dependent persons
require much less and feel very good at hour 48 after Indra extract
administration (and they are ‘out’ prior to that, not in physical
discomfort), but they are on 20 mg. – 120 mg. daily of heroin or methadone.
Methadone is more challenging to clear but it is possible with a more
rigorous regimen.
Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: “Laurie Kardon” <lauriekardon@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
hi, could anyone tell me if there is any reason I
would want to mix ibogaine hcl and indra at the same
time?
thanks. I know taking indra after hcl when your
getting off methadone can be helpful, or doing hcl a
few times in a row. but i havent heard of hcl and
indra at the same time before but a person here who
did it to get off methadone says it worked really
well.
thanks again
laurie
__________________________________________________
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Everything you’ll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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From: Laurie Kardon <lauriekardon@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] hcl and indra t same time?
Date: March 14, 2003 at 10:10:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi, could anyone tell me if there is any reason I
would want to mix ibogaine hcl and indra at the same
time?
thanks. I know taking indra after hcl when your
getting off methadone can be helpful, or doing hcl a
few times in a row. but i havent heard of hcl and
indra at the same time before but a person here who
did it to get off methadone says it worked really
well.
thanks again
laurie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you’ll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Undercover Cop Never Knew Selling Drugs Was Such Hard Work
Date: March 14, 2003 at 1:18:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.theonion.com/onion3908/undercover_cop.html
Undercover Cop Never Knew Selling Drugs Was Such Hard Work
PHILADELPHIA—Rick Bastone, 31, an officer with Philadelphia’s 23rd
Precinct, has gained newfound respect for America’s hard-working drug
dealers ever since going undercover to sell narcotics.
“I had no idea how tough this was,” said Bastone, standing on a
dilapidated corner in 20-degree weather while awaiting a cocaine
drop-off Monday. “I guess I imagined it being like in the movies:
drinking
champagne, hot-tubbing with honeys, and cruising in customized
Escalades
while watching the cash roll in. But here I am, freezing my ass off.
I’ve got to say, these drug-dealing scumbags really earn their pay.”
Assigned to the PPD’s undercover narcotics division on Feb. 22, Bastone
said he expected his life as a drug dealer to be glamorous and
hedonistic. His preconceptions were shattered after just a few days of
grueling, firsthand experience.
“I thought being a cop was hard, but it’s not half as hard as being a
pusher,” Bastone said. “You’re hustling on the streets all day, then
going to parties at night to build up clientele. And it’s not like you
can enjoy yourself at these parties. When you’re there, you’re
networking and sizing up competitors and setting up deals. There’s
hardly a second to breathe, much less get your swerve on.”
Unlike law enforcement, Bastone said drug-dealing is a 24-hour,
seven-day-a-week job.
“My best customer knocks on my door at all hours whenever he’s in need
of a heroin fix,” Bastone said. “I’d love to tell him to get lost, but
he’d probably just go to someone else’s corner and take his contacts
with him.
Then there’s the constant pressure to sell: I’ve got to keep upping my
purchases from my distributor, or else they’ll give my corner to
someone
else. Christ, I need a vacation.”
Dealing drugs, Bastone said, also demands a tremendous amount of
knowledge and expertise.
“First, I had to have the metric system down cold,” Bastone said.
“Then, I spent almost two weeks learning the weight of a gram of coke
by feel. Plus, you have to always stay on top of the current street
lingo, which is constantly changing and not just the drug slang, but
slang for everything from currency to getting a drink. Cops don’t have
to know any of that.”
Contributing to Bastone’s stress level is his growing distrust of Gary
“Muffinhead” Yarbo, a small-time, oft-incarcerated dealer used by the
PPD as a means to help undercover officers enter the drug scene.
“I’ve always got to keep one eye on what I’m doing and one eye on
Muffinhead,” Bastone said. “I know he won’t rat me out on purpose, but
he’s not the brightest guy. Just one slip-up, and I’ve either ruined
months of backbreaking work on the street or I’m a dead man. Man, all
this, and you don’t even get health insurance.”
Heidi Bastone, the officer’s wife, has noticed the change in her
husband’s view toward those on the other side of the drug war.
“Rick always used to talk about ‘the lazy drug dealers,'” Heidi said.
“Not anymore. He’s always talking about how amazed he is that guys like
[local cocaine kingpin] Dean ‘Powder’ Edwards have been doing this for
20 years.
I really don’t think Rick can last another six months, so hopefully
he’ll have a solid case built by then. I sure hope so. I don’t think I
can stand much more of his bitching about how he spent all day hauling
around kilos of uncut Colombian.”
__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Testing a mail filter – PLEASE IGNORE
Date: March 13, 2003 at 8:33:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
__________________________________________________
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Goobers
Date: March 12, 2003 at 10:01:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s hard to say how I got here exactly. Mindvox has always been here, before browsers existed at any rate I think it opened to the public in 1991. Except then it was this hacker stronghold. It was also the first isp in ny. I wasn’t on it until 1996, in 1997 or 98 they sold everything to RCN but the domains mindvox and phantom stayed so its one of those urls alot of people remember and one day I typed in phantom.com and it landed here instead of going to a black page.
I didn’t know ibogaine existed before coming here and I wasn’t looking for it. I was just grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool rants. I was clean almost 2 years before I took ibogaine the first time last year. It has changed my life in many good ways and I wish I knew about it when I was going to detox! 🙂
My only words of wisdom are find your own way! There are alot of folks here who have done things their own way I think patrick is the most extreme, at least he’s the only person I ever heard of who blew their brains out by eating sheets of lsd all at once and came back down no longer a junkie. And went to do this in Bangkok 🙂 There are lots of folks though bro, who have done it in all kinds of ways and that includes me. I find the 12 steps to be very negative and can’t deal with that, but I’ve got years of clean time and a life that I like again.
Do the ibogaine and see where it takes you. It’s a amazing thing bro. And for all the bullshit this is a good place to get support from folks. Even the ones who go off are mostly good people and nearly everyone has been there. And I’ve read alot of good advice, everyone has something to share and there is always some little piece that helps.
Love and respect to you too bro!
Peace out,
Curtis
On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 04:36:08 -0800 thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Curtis
Thanks for your support mate !!
what’s your story mate ? – how did you end up on mindvox ?
any words of wisdom ??
Cheers & many thanks !!
Love & respect
Richard
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] for Richard
Date: March 12, 2003 at 10:49:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Here I am saying good things about hush and either I hit the wrong key which never happens 😉 or it ate my long msg to richard.
Bro, I got here by accident or ibogaine 🙂 I didn’t know ibogaine existed, I was clean for years before I took it the first time last year. I was checking out if phantom went anywhere. Mindvox has been here since I think the @ sign started, years before www existed and I was on it in 1996 to 1997. It wasnt this back then, it was a hacker underground system and the first isp in NY. In 1998 I think they sold all of it to RCN but kept the domains which went nowhere but a black page. I typed phantom and ended up grooving on the psychedelic web site and cool rants.
Ibogaine has given me many good things and taught me different ways of looking at my life. This is a really good place because there are so many people here with such different backgrounds and there is from one extreme patrick who did ibogaine then went to bangkok and ate sheets of lsd, came back down and wasn’t a junkie anymore, to some 12 step people who I like too and everything in between the two extremes.
I’ve found everyone here has something to offer and most have been where we’ve been at or are there are trying to get out.
Do the ibogaine see what it has to show you and then stick around 🙂
I don’t know if this is a info exchange, chat line, venting line, recovery support or I think more like all of them, but it’s a good place and it does have everyone who knows about ibogaine on it. It also has angry persons, persons who write something to make everyone mad then leave, persons who are in much of their own pain and trying to get off heroin. But it really is a good place in that everyone I think means well and nobody here is selling anything. That’s not true either I think alot sell ibogaine or treatment but not here on this list I mean.
I hit delete alot. There are some people whose messages I keep. And there is almost always something I find useful in what is said here that lets me look at life in a different way.
I take what I find useful and leave the rest 😉 No I’m not a 12 stepper, it’s too much negative energy for me. I can’t handle that. But I am handling my life and like what it’s becoming. Did not think I would be saying that a few years ago.
Much love and respect to you too. If two copies of my message go through then you got twice my thoughts for the same price 😉
Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] personal inventory
Date: March 12, 2003 at 10:03:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 19:34:57 -0800 acer.nl@hushmail.com wrote:
Taking a inventory.
We have a twilight zone episode cast as recovery (can I use that
word without being lynched?) .
We have the renegade chemist who is making the world a better place
by synthesizing heroin and supercrack. With a interest in whatever
all the space time posts you copy here are about. I dont understand
a word of any of them.
We have the yippies.
We have the hippies.
We have the medical marijuana movement.
We have Howard Lotsoff.
We have the former junkie/hacker, turned acidhead writer/poet with
messiah complex who runs this (hi patrick)
We have the hallucinogen that cures addiction.
We have the hacker kids.
We have the jesus freak, former junkie, pot smoking future psychiatrist
from Berkeley (where else).
I’m not a jesus freak!
Wanted to clarify that 🙂
Peace out,
Curtis
We have the megalomaniacal multimillionaire pot dealer and his assistants.
We have phillip k. dick.
We have people who have personally done more ibogaine then entire
research studies.
We have earth mother herbal experts with nature’s healing.
We have some 12 step members who got lost and stayed here.
We have more then one mr. science.
We have egotripping doctors and specialists and maniacs of every
sort.
We have the media.
We have a lot of drug experts.
We have the peace movement.
We have the war movement.
We have every ibogaine dealer in the world.
We have I have no doubt many drug dealers.
We have I have no doubt, the DEA.
All I ask is where were all of you when I was trying to clean up?
I’d love to go to a group with the people here. Even on the worst
days you make me feel great. The best post anyone ever wrote here
is whoever it was that said ‘maybe I won’t smoke crack today, I’ll
read mindvox instead. Same effect’
When do we start a mindvox commune? I’m sure we will have no trouble
making a self sustaining economy, Slip Stream should take no more
then 48 hours to turn $500 worth of over the counter medications
into something with a street price of $10 or $15 million. If he
ever gets the time machine going it only gets better.
Does anyone play a musical instrument?
Love all of you. No joke. You make my day. I’ve unsubscribed the
digest and started daily messages.
Does anyone here know why ziplip is broken and not accepting my
login? Someone here knows the answer to everything.
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] personal inventory
Date: March 12, 2003 at 10:05:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hush is good. Better then yahoo and the reason people moved to it is because its the only service giving end to end encryption using a browser. I moved when rediff blew up ahead of schedule so I understand what you mean bro.
Only bad thing is it blows pop up ads all over your screen. Doesnt matter if you use a popup stopper but you have to remember to disable it because when you compose messages or do anything it uses pop ups too.
It has its good it has its bad but overall its better then other webmail services. Try it and see.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 19:59:26 -0800 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
How is hushmail? I see everyone moving to it I need to get off yahoo,
where I went when space closed their email, hotmail is terrible.
How’s
ziplip different from hush or hush.ai?
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine research study
Date: March 11, 2003 at 10:12:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I recently received a request to place notices on the Ibogaine Dossier and to
request notices be placed on other appropriate web pages and lists for
assistance in contacting ibogaine treated narcotic dependent patients.
Please feel free to copy the html code from the Ibogaine Dossier to your web
pages. If you know anyone who fits the criteria for this study please
forward this message to them. Thanks for your assistance with this study.
http://www.ibogaine.org/ibostudy.html
Howard Lotsof
**************************************
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
LIFE AFTER IBOGAINE TREATMENT
If you have been treated by Ibogaine, we need your help!
The research team from the Free University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands, is
looking for individuals that have been treated by Ibogaine in relation with
narcotic addiction. A successful outcome of the treatment is not a
requirement for participation.
The goal of research is determining the long-term stable effects of Ibogaine
treatment.
Participation in our study can be quite simple. We would need each
participant to fill out a questionnaire in order to provide us with details
of their drug history and Ibogaine treatment. All the information obtained is
confidential. Participants that are willing to take part anonymously are
welcome as well.
It is hoped this research project will provide validation for the original
work of Prof. dr. Jan Bastiaans who was the first medical doctor to treat
heroin and other opioid users with ibogaine. Your support is appreciated.
If you would like to participate, please contact Udi Bastiaans at
+31-20-6423820 or e-mail: e.bastiaans@stu.med.vu.nl.
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [Newsroom-L] fighting on all fronts
Date: March 11, 2003 at 9:52:33 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “efficacy” <efficacy@email.msn.com>, “CRRH” <restore@crrh.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
I thought you all would appreciate this one. Please pass on the info
about the petition to the UN. Thanks.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Libby
To: cafecancun
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:02 PM
Subject: [Newsroom-L] fighting on all fronts
Hey kids,
I’ve been following the dialogue. Thank you John
French et al, for the most amusing analysis of the St
Paddy Day strategy in the WOT.
I’ve been consumed with my own little battle with the
WOD this week and in the last 48 hours, I’ve learned
to stop worrying and love email.
I was cleaning out the last of my unread stuff on
Sunday, which happened to be Preston’s interview with
Marco. I found the link to the UN appeal in April and
there were 3,713 names, maybe 271 from the US. I was
appalled. In the first place because I realized that
this guy is fighting for what I believe in and I
hadn’t already signed myself. In the second, because
of the millions of consumers in the cyberworld… look
at the number.
The number barely moved on Sunday night when I started
my campaign. I spent two hours emailing every person
I thought would be brave enough to sign and in the
last 48 hours I saw the numbers go over 4,000. I
believe at least 12 of them are there because I told
them they could be. I don’t know, call me a dreamer,
but I would like to see the list number at least
40,000 before April 12th.
I don’t want to do the math. If those 12 each could
get 10 people to sign, how long would it take to get
to that number?
By the way, here’s the basic email I sent:
Marco Cappato, European Minister of Parliment for
Italy’s Radical Party and member of the
Anti-Prohibitionist League will be presenting this
appeal to the UN when they convene in Vienna in April.
They will be taking up the issue of international
anti-drug conventions reform.
It takes about a minute to read the appeal and add
your name to the list.
There is an embarrassing lack of names from the USA.
If you are a marijuana consumer, this will be an
important and under-reported moment. Please visit the
site at the link and pass it on.
This is an opportunity to raise our voices in unison
against the War on Drugs.
http://www.radicalparty.org/lia_paa_appeal/index_en.php
Libby Spencer
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From: “thebozman” <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Goobers
Date: March 11, 2003 at 7:36:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Curtis
Thanks for your support mate !!
what’s your story mate ? – how did you end up on mindvox ?
any words of wisdom ??
Cheers & many thanks !!
Love & respect
Richard
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Goobers
Thanks Brett!
Peace out,
Curtis
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From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] personal inventory
Date: March 10, 2003 at 3:14:55 PM EST
To: acer.nl@hushmail.com, ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Does anyone play a musical instrument?
i play guitar, trumpet, french horn, and program electronic stuff… =)
———————————————————————-
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American Public.” – Theodore Roosevelt
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] personal inventory
Date: March 10, 2003 at 8:21:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vector wrote >Preston, lots of people I’m sure play musical instruments :)<
Don’t know a thing about hist…no, I mean, Hushmail or ziplip, but Vector
is right, I and probably lotsa others do play musical instruments. (Not sure
why I got singled out, but that’s cool.) As a matter of fact, I just got my
guitar fixed, and am playing it a lot lately. Creating positive vibrations
seems to be a better idea than feeling down about my loosing major funding
this past weekend.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Vector Vector
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] personal inventory
How is hushmail? I see everyone moving to it I need to get off yahoo,
where I went when space closed their email, hotmail is terrible. How’s
ziplip different from hush or hush.ai?
Preston, lots of people I’m sure play musical instruments 🙂
.:vector:.
— acer.nl@hushmail.com wrote:
Does anyone play a musical instrument?
Love all of you. No joke. You make my day. I’ve unsubscribed the
digest and started daily messages.
Does anyone here know why ziplip is broken and not accepting my
login? Someone here knows the answer to everything.
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] personal inventory
Date: March 9, 2003 at 10:59:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
How is hushmail? I see everyone moving to it I need to get off yahoo,
where I went when space closed their email, hotmail is terrible. How’s
ziplip different from hush or hush.ai?
Preston, lots of people I’m sure play musical instruments 🙂
.:vector:.
— acer.nl@hushmail.com wrote:
Does anyone play a musical instrument?
Love all of you. No joke. You make my day. I’ve unsubscribed the
digest and started daily messages.
Does anyone here know why ziplip is broken and not accepting my
login? Someone here knows the answer to everything.
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: Hush 2.2 (Java)
Note: This signature can be verified at
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From: acer.nl@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] personal inventory
Date: March 9, 2003 at 10:34:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@MindVox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Taking a inventory.
We have a twilight zone episode cast as recovery (can I use that word without being lynched?) .
We have the renegade chemist who is making the world a better place by synthesizing heroin and supercrack. With a interest in whatever all the space time posts you copy here are about. I dont understand a word of any of them.
We have the yippies.
We have the hippies.
We have the medical marijuana movement.
We have Howard Lotsoff.
We have the former junkie/hacker, turned acidhead writer/poet with messiah complex who runs this (hi patrick)
We have the hallucinogen that cures addiction.
We have the hacker kids.
We have the jesus freak, former junkie, pot smoking future psychiatrist from Berkeley (where else).
We have the megalomaniacal multimillionaire pot dealer and his assistants.
We have phillip k. dick.
We have people who have personally done more ibogaine then entire research studies.
We have earth mother herbal experts with nature’s healing.
We have some 12 step members who got lost and stayed here.
We have more then one mr. science.
We have egotripping doctors and specialists and maniacs of every sort.
We have the media.
We have a lot of drug experts.
We have the peace movement.
We have the war movement.
We have every ibogaine dealer in the world.
We have I have no doubt many drug dealers.
We have I have no doubt, the DEA.
All I ask is where were all of you when I was trying to clean up? I’d love to go to a group with the people here. Even on the worst days you make me feel great. The best post anyone ever wrote here is whoever it was that said ‘maybe I won’t smoke crack today, I’ll read mindvox instead. Same effect’
When do we start a mindvox commune? I’m sure we will have no trouble making a self sustaining economy, Slip Stream should take no more then 48 hours to turn $500 worth of over the counter medications into something with a street price of $10 or $15 million. If he ever gets the time machine going it only gets better.
Does anyone play a musical instrument?
Love all of you. No joke. You make my day. I’ve unsubscribed the digest and started daily messages.
Does anyone here know why ziplip is broken and not accepting my login? Someone here knows the answer to everything.
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine
Date: March 9, 2003 at 6:34:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Congratulations bro! Much love to you.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 12:06:34 -0800 thebozman <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Paul and to everyone else here on mindvox !!
about a week ago I was feeling particularly down and desperate about
my
present life situation and I am so grateful for the people who e-
mailed me
with their advice and information on my up-coming ibo experience
!!
to be honest I wasn’t expecting any response as I had mis-judged
some of the
characters here on mindvox.
when I started reading the replies I cried and it was the first
release if
pent up emotion that I have had in months and for that I thank you
!!
Paul thank you very much for meeting up with me the other night
! – just
knowing that their are people out there offering support to me gives
me hope
and belief !!
My sitter is flying over from Brazil next Sunday and I’m taking
ibogaine on
the Monday – I now virtually can’t think of anything else but Monday
17th
March and I can’t think past that day either because I really do
not know
how I will be afterwards and in what ways I may or may not change
!!
I still have anxieties about experiencing withdrawals and the intensity
and
length of the “trip” so to speak.
Also how long after will I be able to resume a “normal” routine
and work ?
In my week leading up is there anything I can do to help prepare
myself ?
I thank everyone who reads and gives their time to help.
Richard from Nottingham, England.
—– Original Message —–
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: ibogaine
Hi Richard
Good to hear you are still going ahead with a trip to ibogaland.
How to meet up – my mobile is down at the moment and its not a
broadband
connection here at my sisters so im tying up the phonelines
downloading tons of music from Kazza – all the rare shit i sold
when
things
were desperate 😉 –
So – i reckon the easiest thing to do is send me yr mobile/landline
no.
and I’ll phone yr and arrange to meet at a mutual time – anytime
is good
for
me at the moment – so i’ll leave it in yr hands – the bus station
is
probably the best place to meet – the buses go every 10m from
eastwood –
I’ll stick a great big iboga root in my lapel so you can recognise
me 😉
later on today is good or thursday if yr prefer – i may have to
go back on
fri, not sure.
And dont worry about you taking up my time – the iboga entity
made it
clear
to me that part of the deal was to help others and it was such
an
incredible
synchronicity that yr posted on mindvox while i was here in nottingham
–
99%
of people on mindvox are amerikan – so when i saw yr posting –
i thought –
typical iboga – its seems to generate all these weird
connections..anyway,i’ll shut up…rambling..its late…
hope to meet up soon
paul.
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Goobers
Date: March 9, 2003 at 6:07:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Brett!
Peace out,
Curtis
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From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a gift
Date: March 9, 2003 at 6:02:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think he’s in Belgium. If he’s in the US then he’s hiding because all he ever does is post that philip k. dick spectrum, quantum mechanincs, black holes and fuck you messages to the DEA. I thought the bro was full of it but he is surviving a whole peer review comittee of underground chemists on the hive. He’s also one of the three people writing the hard drugs tikhal they’re working on.
and can you make ibogaine out of common household materials? 🙂 You probably can bro. why all the super heroin and super crack recipies and nothing ever on psychedelics or super bud?
Peace out,
Curtis
On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 14:41:12 -0800 Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
isn’t PPA illegal now and no longer in diet pills? I live in NC USA
if it is a state thing. not making, just curious: would have done
it 4 years ago!
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] but can you do it for ibogaine?
Date: March 9, 2003 at 5:52:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
At 1:44 PM -0800 3/9/03, Slip Stream wrote:
Viola! China white has just been made out of
Nightshade, diet tablets, aniline, and food
preservatives. It’s all there in the literature. Ref’s
available upon request.
Are we having fun yet?
Alchemy has been attained. I’m just that good.
But can you do the same for ibogaine–come up with a reliable
synthesis that starts with household items?
Dana/cnw
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a gift
Date: March 9, 2003 at 5:41:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
isn’t PPA illegal now and no longer in diet pills? I live in NC USA if it is a state thing. not making, just curious: would have done it 4 years ago!
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Goobers
Date: March 9, 2003 at 5:30:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Does anyone know where in the archive the Gooberman
messages are? Which messags do I request, I think
someone posted the URLs for all this around 2 months
ago.
ibogaine Digest of: thread.3281
Detox’d to Death by Dr. Death
3281 by: Dana Beal
3282 by: Patrick K. Kroupa
3291 by: Richard Davis
3292 by: ccadden
Administrivia:
— Administrative commands for the ibogaine list —
I can handle administrative requests automatically.
Please
do not send them to the list address! Instead, send
your message to the correct command address:
For help and a description of available commands, send
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To remove your address from the list, just send a
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you can also send a message to:
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For addition or removal of addresses, I’ll send a
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Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:48:24 -0800 (PST)
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Message-Id: <a05111b01ba002fed47fe@[192.168.1.100]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:17:21 -0500
To: Newagecitizen@aol.com
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
CC: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=”============_-1174392649==_ma============”
Subject: Detox’d to Death by Dr. Death
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FYI:
Tangentially relevant? TOTALLY.
Detox Doctors Ruled Not Negligent
By LINDA A. JOHNSON
.c The Associated Press
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) – Two doctors who practiced a
method of rapidly detoxifying narcotics addicts were
not negligent in the deaths of seven patients, but
their licenses should be briefly suspended, a state
judge has ruled.
Prosecutors had charged Drs. Lance Gooberman and his
assistant, David Bradway, with gross and repeated
malpractice, negligence, incompetence and professional
misconduct. Prosecutors were seeking to revoke their
medical licenses.
The charges were filed after the deaths of seven of
the more than 2,350 heroin and other addicts Gooberman
and Bradway treated from May 1995 to September 1999 at
U.S. Detox Inc. in Merchantville. The doctors denied
any wrongdoing.
After a lengthy trial, Administrative Law Judge Jeff
S. Masin ruled late Friday that the prosecution had
not proved any serious charges, saying the doctors
generally acted in good faith.
He recommended that each have his license suspended
for six months for violations of several medical
standards, followed by two years’ probation during
which their records would be reviewed, particularly if
they resumed the rapid detoxification treatments.
The violations include inadequate record keeping, in
some cases encouraging some patients to allow their
cases to be described in publicity materials for the
business and not telling early patients that the
procedure was considered experimental.
Gooberman said Monday he plans to challenge those
findings.
“I’m really excited about the decision,” he said.
“It vindicated rapid detoxification. It was important
for me to hear that we didn’t hurt anybody and we
acted in good faith.”
The state attorney general’s office is reviewing
Masin’s ruling to determine whether to file any
exceptions.
Masin also recommended that Gooberman pay a total of
$11,500 in civil penalties, Bradway pay a total of
$14,000 in civil penalties, and they together pay
one-third of the costs for investigation of the case
by the state Board of Medical Examiners.
The board polices doctors licensed in the state and
must review Masin’s “initial judgment.” It can
accept his findings, reject them or modify them.
In his ruling, Masin wrote that there was nothing
intrinsically “inappropriate or especially
dangerous” about the doctors’ rapid opiate
detoxification procedure.
It uses medications to rapidly flush drugs out of
addicts’ bodies while they are under anesthesia for
about four hours, getting them over the worst of
withdrawal symptoms such as diarrhea, cramps and
tremors that normally would last for several days.
The method has been widely used in Europe and Israel,
but is relatively new in the United States. Doctors in
six states offer the treatment.
Gooberman and Bradway have been barred from performing
the procedure since September 1999.
The trial began in January 2001 and continued through
June 2002.
On the Net: http://lancegooberman.com/
11/18/02 20:02 EST
Professor Hemp
New Age Citizen
PO Box 419
Dearborn Heights, MI 48127
(313)563-3192
Patrick calls this guy “Dr. Death.” Lance Gooberman,
I mean. Trexan’s a Dupont product, BTW.
Dana/cnw
Forwarded Message
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:18 -0500
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@mindvox.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Message-ID: <20021119185918.GA11710@mindvox.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox’d to Death by Dr. Death
Plain Text Attachment [ Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase |
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On [Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 01:17:21PM -0500], [Dana
Beal] wrote:
| Patrick calls this guy “Dr. Death.” Lance
Gooberman, I mean.
| Trexan’s a Dupont product, BTW.
|
| Dana/cnw
Gooberman is a total and absolute fuckhead. Resnick
and Gooberman are
—
or were — the two main detox doctors in the NYC area
roughly 5 years
back. Resnick is, well, whatever. He’s okay. He may
or may not take
various actions that are highly questionable in terms
of how he
dispenses
“medication,” which is entirely between him and
whomever is attempting
to
prosecute him; but he’s an okay person and NOT totally
full of shit.
Lance invented the whole entire assembly-line UROD
conveyor belt
paradigm;
junkie in one end –> UROD –> <presto!> You are
CURED! spin control,
and
plastered huge billboards all over sugar hill, spanish
harlem, and
Hunt’s
Point advertising his shit. While Andre Waismann
invented UROD, Lance
is
the one who made it highly popular, very profitable,
and totally
sleazy.
Most of his former clients have expressed the general
wish that it’d be
karmically correct to get Lance strung out, and then
repeatedly detox
him
using his own methodology.
I can’t find any fault with that line of reasoning.
Patrick
Forwarded Message
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:52:29 -0500
From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Message-ID: <IPNNMOIHINEELBAA@mailcity.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox’d to Death by Dr. Death
Plain Text Attachment [ Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase |
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Lance Gooberman should have lost his license a long
time ago. I know 2
people personally who have seen him and describe a
person worse then
the worst drug dealer theyve ever dealt with.
My tag line for the day
“Post-human, Fully Deconstructed and Completely
Incoherent”
I’ll have to think on that one.
—
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:18
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 01:17:21PM -0500], [Dana
Beal] wrote:
| Patrick calls this guy “Dr. Death.” Lance
Gooberman, I mean.
| Trexan’s a Dupont product, BTW.
|
| Dana/cnw
Gooberman is a total and absolute fuckhead. Resnick
and Gooberman are
—
or were — the two main detox doctors in the NYC area
roughly 5 years
back. Resnick is, well, whatever. He’s okay. He
may or may not take
various actions that are highly questionable in terms
of how he
dispenses
“medication,” which is entirely between him and
whomever is attempting
to
prosecute him; but he’s an okay person and NOT
totally full of shit.
Lance invented the whole entire assembly-line UROD
conveyor belt
paradigm;
junkie in one end –> UROD –> <presto!> You are
CURED! spin control,
and
plastered huge billboards all over sugar hill,
spanish harlem, and
Hunt’s
Point advertising his shit. While Andre Waismann
invented UROD, Lance
is
the one who made it highly popular, very profitable,
and totally
sleazy.
Most of his former clients have expressed the general
wish that it’d
be
karmically correct to get Lance strung out, and then
repeatedly detox
him
using his own methodology.
I can’t find any fault with that line of reasoning.
Patrick
__________________________________________________________
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Forwarded Message
Message-ID: <02c701c2902f$e37e19b0$ba3a4a18@ElGrekkko>
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:58:06 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″
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Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox’d to Death by Dr. Death
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What can you expect from a guy with the last name
Gooberman. Only
something
truly evil would come from a name like that.
Chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox’d to Death by Dr. Death
Lance Gooberman should have lost his license a long
time ago. I know
2
people personally who have seen him and describe a
person worse then
the
worst drug dealer theyve ever dealt with.
My tag line for the day
“Post-human, Fully Deconstructed and Completely
Incoherent”
I’ll have to think on that one.
—
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:18
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 01:17:21PM -0500], [Dana
Beal] wrote:
| Patrick calls this guy “Dr. Death.” Lance
Gooberman, I mean.
| Trexan’s a Dupont product, BTW.
|
| Dana/cnw
Gooberman is a total and absolute fuckhead.
Resnick and Gooberman
are —
or were — the two main detox doctors in the NYC
area roughly 5
years
back. Resnick is, well, whatever. He’s okay. He
may or may not
take
various actions that are highly questionable in
terms of how he
dispenses
“medication,” which is entirely between him and
whomever is
attempting
to
prosecute him; but he’s an okay person and NOT
totally full of shit.
Lance invented the whole entire assembly-line UROD
conveyor belt
paradigm;
junkie in one end –> UROD –> <presto!> You are
CURED! spin
control,
and
plastered huge billboards all over sugar hill,
spanish harlem, and
Hunt’s
Point advertising his shit. While Andre Waismann
invented UROD,
Lance
is
the one who made it highly popular, very
profitable, and totally
sleazy.
Most of his former clients have expressed the
general wish that it’d
be
karmically correct to get Lance strung out, and
then repeatedly
detox
him
using his own methodology.
I can’t find any fault with that line of reasoning.
Patrick
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center – forms, calculators, tips, more
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From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a gift
Date: March 9, 2003 at 4:44:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Synthesis of the Fentanyl analog beta-hydroxy-alpha-methylfentanyl
by Reverand Drone342:
Alright, I’m only gonna say this once…
N-methyl-4-piperidone + methyl iodide ===>
N,N-dimethyl-4-piperidone iodide + phenylpropanolamine, base ===>
beta-hydroxy-alpha-methyl-phenylethyl-4-piperidone + aniline, NaBH4 ===>
4-anilo-1-(beta-hydroxy-alpha-methyl-phenethyl)-piperidone + (CH3CH2CO)2O ===>
beta-hydroxy-alpha-methylfentanyl
Next, you’ll want ref’s, I bet. Ho-hum. Invariably, Step 2 (the replacement
of the quaternary amine with phenylpropanolamine) is the one you’re wondering
about, isn’t it? I thought so.
Chem.Heterocycl.Compd.; 21; 12; 1985; 1355-1362;
You probobly want to know a little about reductive
amination of aniline with your piperidone, too.
Chem.Pharm.Bull.; 33; 5; 1985; 1826-1835;
Just to be thorough, here’s the addition of the propionyl group:
J.Heterocycl.Chem.; 26; 1989; 677-686;
The reasons for doing this are numerous. N-methyl piperidone is unwatched,
available in big quantities, and very cheap.
——————————————————————————-
Chemistry Discourse
Topic: a gift from drone to the DEA — a little china white
Drone 342:
Get ready for some gut-pumpin’ chemical fun!
As a gift from my workin’ class worker bee
subconscious to you, the larger community, here’s a
little genie that I’ve been struggling to keep in the
bottle now for a year. “Pop”, goes the cork, and like
a little butterfly, this chemical nugget spreads its
wings for the rest of the word.
Drone’s home-made fentanyl analog!
Yep, drone has doen what was thought impossible, and
will now divulge what is thought unmentionable,
because DRONE #342 is DRONE #342, and can do that!
Folks, have you ever had a hankering for a big, juicy
ounce or two of synthetic heroin, but just thought it
impossible to allocate the necessary chemicals? Well,
your friend drone has taken out the guesswork and
managed to develope a synthetic route to a chemical
1000 or so stronger than conventional smack.
Impossible, you say? NAY, my dear worker bees.
Here’s the general overview of fentanyl synthesis.
4-piperidone is reacted with a trimethyliodo
(quaternary) salt of a phenethylamine (or any number
of aromatic ethylamines), to produce an
N-arylethylpiperidone (you can use the quaternary salt
of the piperidone with the primary substituted
arylethytlamine, if you like, too.) Anyways, this is
reacted with aniline, and reduced with NaBH4, and then
reacted with propionic anhydride to produce the
fentanyl freebase.
It turns out:
*adding an ethyl carbon bridge to the piperidine ring
will not reduce potency.
*adding an extra methyl to the phenethyl substituent
to make a phenylisopropyl makes for a strong,
long-lasting compound.
*adding a hydroxy to the alpha-carbon of the pehethyl
side chain — as seen in ephedrine — will also
increase potency.
*as I said in a previous post, propionic anhydride can
be made at home (this is the most closely watched
chemical on the DEA’s list, but this watching was
rendered obsolete by YoursTruly not too long ago.)
The Fentanyl Suite, in d(l)-major; Movement 1
(the curtain rises, our anti-hero is found quietly
sauntering through the woods, foraging for
precursors.)
Taking this into account, Atropine is extracted from
nightshade. It is hydrolyzed to form tropine. Tropine
is oxidized to form tropinone. Tropinone is then
exhaustively methylated with iodomethane.
Second Movement
Dexatrim is bought in a fiendish quantity. The PPA is
extracted and isolated as its free base. This is
combined with tropinone, to form
N-(1-hydroxy-1-phenyl)isopropyl tropinone.
(intermezzeo)
Third Movement
Aniline is combined with the aforementioned
freshly-made tropinone, and reduced with NaBH4.
Fourth Movement
(Allegro)
Propionic anhydride is made from a propionate salt
like calcium propionate by adding bromine or even
chlorine. Alternatively, propionate esters are
hydrolyzed, the acid component isolated, and combined
with acetic anhydride and allowed to reflux, with the
product being fractionally distilled.
(crescendo)
The propionic anhydride is added to our soon-to-be
fentanyl analog compound, and allowed to react (I
think around 50 C). The product is flash
chromatographed, combined with citric acid (or any
acid of your choice), and allowed to dry.
The material is cut with hundreds of times its mass of
mannitol.
Viola! China white has just been made out of
Nightshade, diet tablets, aniline, and food
preservatives. It’s all there in the literature. Ref’s
available upon request.
Are we having fun yet?
Alchemy has been attained. I’m just that good.
_____________________________________________________________
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Visit Hip Planet for news, shopping, forums, chatrooms, free personal and classified ads and much more!
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From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Think parallel branes and five dimensions.
Date: March 9, 2003 at 4:12:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
‘Brane-Storm’ Challenges Part of Big Bang Theory
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer space.com
posted: 02:33 pm ET
Faster than you can say “Ekpyrotic Universe,” a movement has taken hold — albeit like fingers on a ledge of eternal skepticism — that would blow one of the basic tenets of the Big Bang to smithereens.
Think parallel branes and five dimensions. Science never sounded so cool.
The new idea would not replace the Big Bang, which has for more than 50 years dominated cosmologists’ thinking over how the universe began and evolved. But instead of a universe springing forth in a violent instant from an infinitely small point of infinite density, the new view argues that our universe was created when two parallel “membranes” collided cataclysmically after evolving slowly in five-dimensional space over an exceedingly long period of time.
(These membranes, or “branes” as theorists call them, would have floated like sheets of paper through a fifth dimension that even scientists admit they find hard to picture intuitively. (Our conventional view of 3-D physical space, along with time, make up the four known dimensions.)
“It’s almost crazy enough to be correct.”
— Michael Turner, University of Chicago cosmologist
The idea, put forth earlier this month at a Space Telescope Science Institute meeting in Baltimore, is based on other theories about possible multiple dimensions that are growing in acceptance. It was developed by Neil Turok of Cambridge University, Burt Ovrut of the University of Pennsylvania, and Paul Steinhardt and Justin Khoury of Princeton University.
“The [Ekpyrotic] scenario is that our current universe is [a] four-dimensional membrane embedded in a five-dimensional ‘bulk’ space, something like a sheet of paper in ordinary three-dimensional space,” Turok told SPACE.com. “The idea then is that another membrane collided with ours, releasing energy and heat and leading to the expansion of our universe.”
Crazy, but viable
“It’s almost crazy enough to be correct,” says Michael Turner, a longtime University of Chicago cosmologist who is familiar with the theory. He added that “when you’re trying to crack a really hard problem, you need a crazy idea.”
Turner said astronomers have reacted with great excitement to the new theory, in part because the idea of alternate dimensions is largely new to most of them. Cosmologists tend to welcome the idea as a healthy potential alternative to certain aspects of the Big Bang, but are cautious about the theory’s prospects.
Mario Livio, who heads up the science division of the Space Telescope Science Institute, said it’s way too early to predict whether the theory will withstand scrutiny by other researchers. But he called the concept very important and exciting: “We’re talking about a new idea about the origin of our universe.”
The Ekpyrotic Universe draws its name from the ancient Greek word ekpyrosis, meaning “conflagration” (disastrous fire or conflict). According to an ancient cosmological model with this name, the universe was created in a sudden burst of fire. The modern-day theorists say this ancient idea is not unlike the collision proposed in the new model.
While the new theory is full of complex math and obscure concepts, it is a somewhat soothing idea for anyone who has ever wondered what the heck lies beyond our universe. C’mon, admit it — at least once you thought about the edge of the universe and mumbled, prayed, dreamed or asked: “But what is beyond that.”
So, what is beyond the edge of the universe?
The fifth dimension is what is beyond the edge of the universe, say the creators of the idea. Though they argue that there is in fact no edge.
“There is only one universe,” Ovrut said in a telephone interview. “It does not have a boundary. It’s just one large extended brane that has been hit, heated up and is expanding.”
The mind-bending concept does not involve multiple or parallel universes, as have been suggested by other researchers.
Instead, Ovrut explains, the fifth dimension is all there, is out there, and embedded in it are multiple branes. Each end of the fifth dimension is bounded by an infinite brane. Our visible universe is one of those, and before the collision it may or may not have contained normal matter. At the other end of the fifth dimension is a brane with physics unlike ours. The branes in between, while they may contain matter, are not universes, and they do not resemble the brane we inhabit.
There is no reason to assume, given this conceptual framework, that there are any other universes out there, Ovrut said.
Alternative to explain inflation
A paper on the concept has been submitted to the journal Physical Review D. While the paper has not yet been accepted for publication, surprised and thrilled physicists who are familiar with it are describing the Ekpyrotic Universe as exciting, plausible and a worthy competitor to a problematic aspect of the Big Bang known as inflation.
Inflation attempts to account for the seeming uniformity of the universe. Look in any direction of the sky, and there are features in the universe — galaxies and clusters of galaxies — that very much resemble those in any other direction. The theory of inflation accounts for this by putting all matter in one spot at the beginning, then shooting it outward faster than the speed of light in a period of inflation whereby everything developed under similar rules regardless of where it was headed.
Ovrut said that in modeling a collision of branes, his group found that the result would be a universe that fits neatly with predictions of the Big Bang. It produces similar temperatures and causes the resulting universe to expand, for example, and creates matter with the same uniformity predicted by inflation.
“We are not attacking the theory of inflation,” Ovrut said. “We’re just presenting an alternative.”
Turner, the University of Chicago cosmologist, said inflation theory has been so successful that it has killed all competing theories. But inflation doesn’t address the idea that there might be other dimensions. Interest in this wild notion has grown among cosmologists in recent years.
In textbooks a century from now, Turner believes there will be one of the following two paragraphs:
“A hundred years ago, people were so desperate to try to understand how to put it all together, they invented additional spatial dimensions. What were they smoking?” Or: “A hundred years ago, people were so provincial that in spite of much evidence that there should be extra dimensions they refused to accept it.”
‘Brane-Storm’ Challenges Part of Big Bang Theory (cont.)
Details of the Ekpyrotic Universe theory
The following technical description was provided to SPACE.com by the authors (Justin Khoury, Princeton; Burt Ovrut, UPenn; Paul Steinhardt, Princeton and Neil Turok, Cambridge):
Our paper proposes a new theory of the very early universe that resolves the famous puzzles of the hot Big Bang picture — the horizon, flatness and monopole problems — and that generates fluctuations in energy that seed galaxy formation and produce temperature variations in the cosmic microwave background. The model is based on the idea that our hot Big Bang universe was created from the collision of two three-dimensional worlds moving along a hidden, extra dimension.
The inflationary model of the universe, developed in the 1980’s by Alan Guth (MIT), Andre Linde (Stanford), Andreas Albrecht (UC Davis) and Steinhardt, was designed to resolve these very same problems, relying on a period of exponential hyper-expansion, or inflation.
Conceptually, the ekpyrotic model is very different. There is no inflation or rapid change happening at all. The approach to collision takes places very slowly over an exceedingly long period of time. It is quite fascinating that rapid change and very slow change can produce nearly the same effects. The difference results in one distinctive observational prediction, though: Inflationary cosmology predicts a spectrum of gravitational waves that may be detectable in the cosmic microwave background. The ekpyrotic model predicts no gravitational wave effects should be observable in the cosmic microwave background.
In the ekpyrotic model, when the two three-dimensional worlds collide and “stick,” the kinetic energy in the collision is converted to the quarks, electrons, photons, etc. that are confined to move along three dimensions. The resulting temperature is finite, so the hot Big Bang phase begins without a singularity. The universe is homogeneous because the collision and initiation of the Big Bang phase occurs nearly simultaneously everywhere.
The energetically preferred geometry for the two worlds is flat, so their collision produces a flat Big Bang universe. According to Einstein’s equations, this means that the total energy density of the universe is equal to the critical density. Massive magnetic monopoles, which are over-abundantly produced in the standard Big Bang theory, are not produced at all in this scenario because the temperature after collision is far too small to produce any of these massive particles.
Quantum effects cause the incoming three-dimensional world to ripple along the extra-dimension prior to collision so that the collision occurs in some places at slightly different times than others. By the time the collision is complete, the rippling leads to small variations in temperature, which seed temperature fluctuations in the microwave background and the formation of galaxies. We have shown that the spectrum of energy density fluctuations is scale-invariant (the same amplitude on all scales). The production of a scale-invariant spectrum from hyper-expansion was one of the great triumphs of inflationary theory, and here we have repeated the feat using completely different physics.
The building blocks of the Ekpyrotic theory are derived from Superstring theory. Superstring theory requires extra dimensions for mathematical consistency. In most formulations, 10 dimensions are required. In the mid 1990s, Petr Horava (Rutgers) and Ed Witten (IAS, Princeton) argued that, under certain conditions, an additional dimension opens up over a finite interval. Six dimensions are presumed to be curled up in a microscopic ball, called a Calabi-Yau manifold.
The ball is too small to be noticed in everyday experience, and so our universe appears to be a four-dimensional (three space dimensions and one time dimension) surface embedded in a five-dimensional space-time. This five-dimensional theory, called heterotic M-theory, was formulated by Andre Lukas (Sussex). Ovrut and Dan Waldram (Queen Mary and Westfield College, London). According to Horava-Witten and heterotic M-theory, particles are constrained to move on one of the three-dimensional boundaries on either side of the extra dimensional interval.
Our visible universe would be one of these boundaries; the other boundary and the intervening space would be hidden because particles and light cannot travel across the intervening space. Only gravity is able to couple matter on one boundary to the other sides. In addition, there can exist other three-dimensional hyper-surfaces in the interval, which lie parallel to the outer boundaries and which can carry energy.
These intervening planes are called “branes,” short for membranes. The collision that ignites the hot Big Bang phase of the ekpyrotic model occurs when a three-dimensional brane is attracted to and collides into the boundary corresponding to our visible universe.
The term ekpyrosis means “conflagration” in Greek, and refers to an ancient Stoic cosmological model. According to the model, the universe is created in a sudden burst of fire, not unlike the collision between three-dimensional worlds in our model. The current universe evolves from the initial fire. However, in the Stoic notion, the process may repeat itself in the future. This, too, is possible in our scenario in principle if there is more than one brane and, consequently, more than one collision. We plan to discuss this possibility in future work, along with further speculations about what preceded the collision that made our present universe.
As a final remark, we feel that it is important to realize that Inflationary theory is based on Quantum Field theory, a well-established theoretical framework, and the model has been carefully studied and vetted for 20 years. Our proposal is based on unproven ideas in String theory and is brand new. While we appreciate the enthusiasm and interest with which the paper has been received, we would suggest some patience before promulgating these ideas in order to leave time for us to produce some follow-up papers that introduce additional elements and to allow fellow theorists time for criticism and sober judgment.
So, what is beyond the edge of the universe?
The fifth dimension is what is beyond the edge of the universe, say the creators of the idea. Though they argue that there is in fact no edge.
“There is only one universe,” Ovrut said in a telephone interview. “It does not have a boundary. It’s just one large extended brane that has been hit, heated up and is expanding.”
The mind-bending concept does not involve multiple or parallel universes, as have been suggested by other researchers.
Instead, Ovrut explains, the fifth dimension is all there, is out there, and embedded in it are multiple branes. Each end of the fifth dimension is bounded by an infinite brane. Our visible universe is one of those, and before the collision it may or may not have contained normal matter. At the other end of the fifth dimension is a brane with physics unlike ours. The branes in between, while they may contain matter, are not universes, and they do not resemble the brane we inhabit.
There is no reason to assume, given this conceptual framework, that there are any other universes out there, Ovrut said.
Alternative to explain inflation
A paper on the concept has been submitted to the journal Physical Review D. While the paper has not yet been accepted for publication, surprised and thrilled physicists who are familiar with it are describing the Ekpyrotic Universe as exciting, plausible and a worthy competitor to a problematic aspect of the Big Bang known as inflation.
Inflation attempts to account for the seeming uniformity of the universe. Look in any direction of the sky, and there are features in the universe — galaxies and clusters of galaxies — that very much resemble those in any other direction. The theory of inflation accounts for this by putting all matter in one spot at the beginning, then shooting it outward faster than the speed of light in a period of inflation whereby everything developed under similar rules regardless of where it was headed.
Ovrut said that in modeling a collision of branes, his group found that the result would be a universe that fits neatly with predictions of the Big Bang. It produces similar temperatures and causes the resulting universe to expand, for example, and creates matter with the same uniformity predicted by inflation.
“We are not attacking the theory of inflation,” Ovrut said. “We’re just presenting an alternative.”
Turner, the University of Chicago cosmologist, said inflation theory has been so successful that it has killed all competing theories. But inflation doesn’t address the idea that there might be other dimensions. Interest in this wild notion has grown among cosmologists in recent years.
In textbooks a century from now, Turner believes there will be one of the following two paragraphs:
“A hundred years ago, people were so desperate to try to understand how to put it all together, they invented additional spatial dimensions. What were they smoking?” Or: “A hundred years ago, people were so provincial that in spite of much evidence that there should be extra dimensions they refused to accept it.”
Our paper proposes a new theory of the very early universe that resolves the famous puzzles of the hot Big Bang picture — the horizon, flatness and monopole problems — and that generates fluctuations in energy that seed galaxy formation and produce temperature variations in the cosmic microwave background. The model is based on the idea that our hot Big Bang universe was created from the collision of two three-dimensional worlds moving along a hidden, extra dimension.
The inflationary model of the universe, developed in the 1980’s by Alan Guth (MIT), Andre Linde (Stanford), Andreas Albrecht (UC Davis) and Steinhardt, was designed to resolve these very same problems, relying on a period of exponential hyper-expansion, or inflation.
Conceptually, the ekpyrotic model is very different. There is no inflation or rapid change happening at all. The approach to collision takes places very slowly over an exceedingly long period of time. It is quite fascinating that rapid change and very slow change can produce nearly the same effects. The difference results in one distinctive observational prediction, though: Inflationary cosmology predicts a spectrum of gravitational waves that may be detectable in the cosmic microwave background. The ekpyrotic model predicts no gravitational wave effects should be observable in the cosmic microwave background.
In the ekpyrotic model, when the two three-dimensional worlds collide and “stick,” the kinetic energy in the collision is converted to the quarks, electrons, photons, etc. that are confined to move along three dimensions. The resulting temperature is finite, so the hot Big Bang phase begins without a singularity. The universe is homogeneous because the collision and initiation of the Big Bang phase occurs nearly simultaneously everywhere.
The energetically preferred geometry for the two worlds is flat, so their collision produces a flat Big Bang universe. According to Einstein’s equations, this means that the total energy density of the universe is equal to the critical density. Massive magnetic monopoles, which are over-abundantly produced in the standard Big Bang theory, are not produced at all in this scenario because the temperature after collision is far too small to produce any of these massive particles.
Quantum effects cause the incoming three-dimensional world to ripple along the extra-dimension prior to collision so that the collision occurs in some places at slightly different times than others. By the time the collision is complete, the rippling leads to small variations in temperature, which seed temperature fluctuations in the microwave background and the formation of galaxies. We have shown that the spectrum of energy density fluctuations is scale-invariant (the same amplitude on all scales). The production of a scale-invariant spectrum from hyper-expansion was one of the great triumphs of inflationary theory, and here we have repeated the feat using completely different physics.
The building blocks of the Ekpyrotic theory are derived from Superstring theory. Superstring theory requires extra dimensions for mathematical consistency. In most formulations, 10 dimensions are required. In the mid 1990s, Petr Horava (Rutgers) and Ed Witten (IAS, Princeton) argued that, under certain conditions, an additional dimension opens up over a finite interval. Six dimensions are presumed to be curled up in a microscopic ball, called a Calabi-Yau manifold.
The ball is too small to be noticed in everyday experience, and so our universe appears to be a four-dimensional (three space dimensions and one time dimension) surface embedded in a five-dimensional space-time. This five-dimensional theory, called heterotic M-theory, was formulated by Andre Lukas (Sussex). Ovrut and Dan Waldram (Queen Mary and Westfield College, London). According to Horava-Witten and heterotic M-theory, particles are constrained to move on one of the three-dimensional boundaries on either side of the extra dimensional interval.
Our visible universe would be one of these boundaries; the other boundary and the intervening space would be hidden because particles and light cannot travel across the intervening space. Only gravity is able to couple matter on one boundary to the other sides. In addition, there can exist other three-dimensional hyper-surfaces in the interval, which lie parallel to the outer boundaries and which can carry energy.
These intervening planes are called “branes,” short for membranes. The collision that ignites the hot Big Bang phase of the ekpyrotic model occurs when a three-dimensional brane is attracted to and collides into the boundary corresponding to our visible universe.
The term ekpyrosis means “conflagration” in Greek, and refers to an ancient Stoic cosmological model. According to the model, the universe is created in a sudden burst of fire, not unlike the collision between three-dimensional worlds in our model. The current universe evolves from the initial fire. However, in the Stoic notion, the process may repeat itself in the future. This, too, is possible in our scenario in principle if there is more than one brane and, consequently, more than one collision. We plan to discuss this possibility in future work, along with further speculations about what preceded the collision that made our present universe.
As a final remark, we feel that it is important to realize that Inflationary theory is based on Quantum Field theory, a well-established theoretical framework, and the model has been carefully studied and vetted for 20 years. Our proposal is based on unproven ideas in String theory and is brand new. While we appreciate the enthusiasm and interest with which the paper has been received, we would suggest some patience before promulgating these ideas in order to leave time for us to produce some follow-up papers that introduce additional elements and to allow fellow theorists time for criticism and sober judgment.
_____________________________________________________________
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Visit Hip Planet for news, shopping, forums, chatrooms, free personal and classified ads and much more!
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It’s all waiting for you, at http://www.hipplanet.com
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From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] New Theory Ends Universe by Shredding Everything
Date: March 9, 2003 at 4:17:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=96&e=9&u=/space/20030307/sc_space/the_big_rip__new_theory_ends_universe_by_shredding_everything
The Big Rip: New Theory Ends Universe by Shredding Everything
Fri Mar 7,10:20 AM ET Add Science – Space.com to My Yahoo!
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer, SPACE.com
A rather harrowing new theory about the death of the universe paints a picture of “phantom energy” ripping apart galaxies, stars, planets and eventually every speck of matter in a fantastical end to time.
Scientifically it is just about the most repulsive notion ever conceived.
The speculative but serious cosmology is described as a “pretty fantastic possibility” even by its lead author, Robert Caldwell of Dartmouth University. It explains one possible outcome for solid astronomical observations made in the late 1990s — that the universe is expanding at an ever-increasing pace, and that something unknown is vacuuming everything outward.
The question Caldwell and his colleagues posed is, what would happen if the rate of acceleration increased?
Their answer is that the eventual, phenomenal pace would overwhelm the normal, trusted effects of gravity right down to the local level. Even the nuclear forces that bind things in the subatomic world will cease to be effective.
“The expansion becomes so fast that it literally rips apart all bound objects,” Caldwell explained in a telephone interview. “It rips apart clusters of galaxies. It rips apart stars. It rips apart planets and solar systems. And it eventually rips apart all matter.”
He calls it, as you might guess, the Big Rip.
The standard view
Driving the known acceleration of the universe’s expansion is a mysterious thing is called dark energy, thought of by scientists as anti-gravity working over large distances.
Conventional wisdom holds that the acceleration will proceed at a constant rate, akin to a car that moves 10 mph faster with each mile traveled. With nothing to cap the acceleration, all galaxies will eventually recede from one another at the speed of light, leaving each galaxy alone in a cold, dark universe within 100 billion years. We would not be able to see any galaxies outside our Milky Way, even with the most powerful telescopes.
That’s the conventional view, remarkable as it sounds.
The Big Rip theory has dark energy’s prowess increasing with time, until it’s an out-of-control phantom energy. Think of our car accelerating an additional 10 mph every half mile, then every hundred yards, then every foot.
Before long, the bumpers are bound to fly off. Sooner or later, our hypothetical engine will come apart, regardless of how much we spend on motor oil.
Countdown to demise
Other theorists who have reviewed the Big Rip theory are not yet sold on the idea. Meanwhile, Caldwell’s team has provided a precise countdown to total demise. The projected end is, reassuringly, 20 billion years away. If our species survives the next 19 billion years (and there are serious doubts about this, given our Sun’s projected fate) here are some signs that scientists of the future will want to look for.
A billion years before the end, all galaxies will have receded so far and so fast from our own as to be erased from the sky, as in no longer visible.
When the Milky Way begins to fly apart, there are 60 million years left.
Planets in our solar system will start to wing away from the Sun three months before the end of time.
When Earth explodes, the end is momentarily near.
At this point, there is still a short interval before atoms and even their nuclei break apart. “There’s about 30 minutes left,” Caldwell said, “But it’s not quality time.”
And then what? Does the universe recycle itself? Is there something after nothing?
“We’re not sure what happens after that,” Caldwell says. “On the face of it, it would look like time ends.”
The first explosion
Caldwell’s study had humble beginnings. He and his colleagues, Marc Kamionkowski and Nevin Weinberg at Caltech, were considering how a sphere of matter collapses under its own weight to form a galaxy. In computer models, they tweaked with the dark energy factor and found that too much of it would actually prevent the sphere from collapsing. In extreme cases, the sphere exploded.
“That was our hint that there was something really unusual going on,” Caldwell said.
It wasn’t long ago, just before the accelerated expansion was discovered, that many cosmologists believed the universe might reverse course, that normal gravity would win, and that everything would fall back in a Big Crunch. More recently, solid observational data has all but assured the infinite-expansion model and the cold, dark, never-ending end.
The Caldwell group decided there might be a third possibility, leading to their new paper, which has been submitted to the Physical Review.
But there are many unknowns. It is not clear if the dark energy driving expansion is a force not currently described by physics, or if it is merely a different manifestation of gravity over huge distances. The repulsion could be a response to dark matter, unseen stuff that is known to comprise 23 percent of the universe, based on firm observations.
Dark matter has unknown properties, and it may be related to dark energy, Caldwell said. He notes that even Einstein considered that gravity might work repulsively, in a manner consistent with his theory of general relativity.
Dark energy, being quantified only recently, tends to be discussed as some strange new force, in addition to the four fundamental forces: gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces that govern atoms. But the repulsion is possibly just the way gravity behaves in the presence of dark energy, Caldwell said. In that sense, it is not a new force.
Cautious reception
To turn dark energy into destructive phantom energy, Caldwell and his colleagues had to play around with a thing called the cosmological constant, a mathematical fix that Einstein applied to general relativity. Einstein later called it his greatest mistake, when Edwin Hubble found in the 1920s that the universe was expanding (seven decades later, that expansion would be seen accelerating).
The cosmological constant has been recently revived. Attempts to describe dark energy differ in how the density of dark energy varies with time. In some models, the density decreases slowly. For the cosmological constant, the density is a constant. For phantom energy, it must grow with time.
“We considered a more exotic form of dark energy which was more repulsive,” as Caldwell explains is.
Abraham Loeb, a theoretician at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, has quantified the lonely effects of a forever-expanding universe. Loeb stands by that scenario, but he said Caldwell’s idea is nonetheless interesting to explore.
“I think it’s a logical possibility,” Loeb told SPACE.com. But he cautioned that altering the cosmological constant goes against current consensus.
“If I had to place a bet, I would bet in favor of the standard cosmological constant,” Loeb said.
Sci-fi to reality
If Caldwell’s team is right, cosmology would undergo a revolution. Sci-fi ideas like wormholes and time travel might suddenly enter the realm of hard science. All of this could sort itself out pretty soon, Caldwell believes. Observations over the next few years may actually show whether his phantom energy is possible.
“Who knows if it is right or wrong,” Caldwell said of his theory. “I think we’ll find out pretty soon.”
In fact, recent observations from NASA (news – web sites)’s WMAP space probe have pinned down the physics of the universe with surprising accuracy. A little wiggle room remains for the cosmological constant. Yet more WMAP data are expected over the next four years. Other missions, including one called the Supernova Acceleration Probe (SNAP), could provide answers, Caldwell said.
Even if the Big Rip is a big bust, there’s no guarantee of a pleasant ending.
Alternate final chapter
Paul Steinhardt, a Princeton University physicist, is, like Caldwell and Loeb, no stranger to strange ideas. Steinhardt advocates a cyclical universe, one that has no beginning or end but which instead is constantly starting over again.
Steinhardt theorizes within the generally accepted standards of the cosmological constant. He said the Big Rip is more exotic than most ideas but still conceivable, a projected possible result that is “straightforward and obvious for cosmologists.”
Yet there is another entirely different possibility for the final moments of time as we know it.
In a theory put forth two years ago by Steinhardt and his colleagues, our universe is but a membrane, or brane, floating in a five-dimensional space. It is destined to collide dramatically with another brane. The idea, labeled the Ekpyrotic Universe, would replace portions of the Big Bang scenario while sticking to the presently accepted estimates of acceleration.
“Lest you get too optimistic, galaxies are destroyed in a far more violent way,” Steinhardt said of the brane scenario. “They are vaporized at the next ‘bang’ — the collision between branes … so, you either rip them apart or you vaporize them.”
_____________________________________________________________
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From: “thebozman” <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] thanks !
Date: March 9, 2003 at 4:28:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Paul and to everyone else here on mindvox !!
about a week ago I was feeling particularly down and desperate about my
present life situation and I am so grateful for the people who e-mailed me
with their advice and information on my up-coming ibo experience !!
to be honest I wasn’t expecting any response as I had mis-judged some of the
characters here on mindvox.
when I started reading the replies I cried and it was the first release if
pent up emotion that I have had in months and for that I thank you !!
Paul thank you very much for meeting up with me the other night ! – just
knowing that their are people out there offering support to me gives me hope
and belief !!
My sitter is flying over from Brazil next Sunday and I’m taking ibogaine on
the Monday – I now virtually can’t think of anything else but Monday 17th
March and I can’t think past that day either because I really do not know
how I will be afterwards and in what ways I may or may not change !!
I still have anxieties about experiencing withdrawals and the intensity and
length of the “trip” so to speak.
Also how long after will I be able to resume a “normal” routine and work ?
In my week leading up is there anything I can do to help prepare myself ?
I thank everyone who reads and gives their time to help.
Richard from Nottingham, England.
From: “thebozman” <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine
Date: March 9, 2003 at 3:06:34 PM EST
To: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Paul and to everyone else here on mindvox !!
about a week ago I was feeling particularly down and desperate about my
present life situation and I am so grateful for the people who e-mailed me
with their advice and information on my up-coming ibo experience !!
to be honest I wasn’t expecting any response as I had mis-judged some of the
characters here on mindvox.
when I started reading the replies I cried and it was the first release if
pent up emotion that I have had in months and for that I thank you !!
Paul thank you very much for meeting up with me the other night ! – just
knowing that their are people out there offering support to me gives me hope
and belief !!
My sitter is flying over from Brazil next Sunday and I’m taking ibogaine on
the Monday – I now virtually can’t think of anything else but Monday 17th
March and I can’t think past that day either because I really do not know
how I will be afterwards and in what ways I may or may not change !!
I still have anxieties about experiencing withdrawals and the intensity and
length of the “trip” so to speak.
Also how long after will I be able to resume a “normal” routine and work ?
In my week leading up is there anything I can do to help prepare myself ?
I thank everyone who reads and gives their time to help.
Richard from Nottingham, England.
—– Original Message —–
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: <thebozman@compassmag.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: ibogaine
Hi Richard
Good to hear you are still going ahead with a trip to ibogaland.
How to meet up – my mobile is down at the moment and its not a broadband
connection here at my sisters so im tying up the phonelines
downloading tons of music from Kazza – all the rare shit i sold when
things
were desperate 😉 –
So – i reckon the easiest thing to do is send me yr mobile/landline no.
and I’ll phone yr and arrange to meet at a mutual time – anytime is good
for
me at the moment – so i’ll leave it in yr hands – the bus station is
probably the best place to meet – the buses go every 10m from eastwood –
I’ll stick a great big iboga root in my lapel so you can recognise me 😉
later on today is good or thursday if yr prefer – i may have to go back on
fri, not sure.
And dont worry about you taking up my time – the iboga entity made it
clear
to me that part of the deal was to help others and it was such an
incredible
synchronicity that yr posted on mindvox while i was here in nottingham –
99%
of people on mindvox are amerikan – so when i saw yr posting – i thought –
typical iboga – its seems to generate all these weird
connections..anyway,i’ll shut up…rambling..its late…
hope to meet up soon
paul.
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk
From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [vox] Hippie Crap Saves The World
Date: March 9, 2003 at 2:49:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you to whoever sent the Hippie Crap Saves the World essay to my e-mail today. It made me feel SO GOOD!!! 🙂 I’ve been in such a deep, dark, funk of hopelessness and depression…thinking that i just can’t bear to see one more strip mall, one more ugly massive advertisement blocking the sky, feeling so disconnected from life…even from any semblance of belonging to a family, to say nothing of what i believe living beings were meant for–tribal life. I’ve literally been nauseated with life as it’s experienced in typical Amerikan towns. This essay gave me hope, briefly reconnected me to humanity again, reminded me that i’m “not the only one” suffering from the anomie of this modern meaningless world (or is it just, or primarily, Amerikan life which instills this nausea?) Thank you, thank you…there’s some comfort in knowing i’m not the only one. eliana
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] It’s backkkkkk 🙂
Date: March 9, 2003 at 2:11:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Bro what you write is amazing. You say all the fuck everybody and everything, that I could never get out after I cleaned up. What I want to draw your attention to is I understand what your doing. I’m sure your agent is pushing you to write what is going to sell but I’ve read through part of the first chapter to your book whatever version it is that Dr. Moraes has a copy of.
Bro I can’t read this. It is really well written, you have control of language but it just made me feel sick. It’s like opening a book by smashing a bottle in someone’s face. And the way you have the structure in that version is that more then two thirds is junkie wasteland and one third is psychedelics.
Change that ratio to at least half and half because bro you can write and you have massive experience with all of this. Going down through hell has been done it’s Naked Lunch. What was much more fascinating is how you got out of hell and the Godhead Navigation Manuals that are in Lost Ark. That is amazing stuff bro and nobody has ever written. Least not in the last 100 years. You have to go back more like 2,000 years to get anything on that, all the current psychedelics books are I did this drug and tripped out. Nobody has anything near what’s in there or anything new. You used psychedelics to walk out of life time addiction, no therapy, no groups, no meds nothing but the godhead trip. nobody has written that. focus a lot more on it! 🙂
Think about it bro, I know it’s the whole journey but right now you have it structred for too much junkie wasteland too little godhead trip. What I got out of Lost Ark is much wonder and awe. What I got out of the first chapter of this is massive depression. It’s not that I mean it’s graphic it’s graphic in such a disconnected way, it’s a guy on overload trying to retreat inside his mind and his mind is breaking and that guy is you.
It reminds me why I love heroin so much and then makes me so totally down that I have thoughts about rolling up the windows in my garage and starting the car. It made me feel sick and took two bowls to get back to where I stop thinking about shooting up. How can you even write this without driving yourself back to a cooker?
To say what I mean to say, I understand its the whole journey. You write really well you make people feel it. What the start feels like is terrible and depressing. It made me physically sick. Where it ends is amazing. Bring more of that into it at least at the half way part.
That’s my opinion.
Peace out,
Curtis
On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:57:10 -0800 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is hysterical and dead on. Patrick when you answer your mail
one
of these decades? Put up the original version that isn’t toned down
🙂
.:vector:.
“You Say ‘Felony’, I say ‘Hobby'”
http://heroinhelper.com/angry/wonderful_things.shtml
Wonderful things I Have Learned From Having Been Fortunate Enough
to
Spend Most of My Life on the Receiving End of the War on Drugs
by Patrick Kroupa Š 2000
[Editor’s Note: This piece was written before 9-11-01. Because of
the
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mention of PKD, Pike, SCANNER on another list…
Date: March 9, 2003 at 1:35:50 PM EST
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Bcc:
Subject: iboga is time travel
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 04:42:52 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2003 04:42:53.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[D954B070:01C2E39A]
Status:
Hi Dana
Came across an interesting article trawling the maps archieves.if youve seen it before,apologies.
The article by Benny Shannon “Being outside the dominion of time” –
neatly illustrates the atemporal nature of the beta-carboline experience :
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v11n2/11248sha.html
Im trawling through the net at the moment,trying to find instances where
those undergoing experiences with ibogaine gave descriptions of “time
travel” – i certainly experienced atemporality – visiting friends that since confirmed my description of their location.
there is also the report in the book of the guy who saw his friend fall out of the window three weeks into the future (did u know him,im sure he was from NY -geerte f’s boyfriend? ) and a few reports of people travelling “backwards” in time
Gonna flesh it out with ayauascha/harmala experiences and use the stuff by the mckennas in the invisible landscape on the solid state matrix induced by harmine bonding to dna through electron spin ressonance.
And of course PKD 3/74 experience of laminated super-imposistion!
Plus burroughs said in the yage letters ; “yage is time travel”
Oh yeah – Re-read “A Scanner Darkly” recently – theres a scene i forgot about where someone recounts a “rectangle” appearing – a door into hyperspace – it appears for about a week but the guy doesnt go through it -!
paul.
ps>you recording the seminar on the lost sacrament at the conference?
did one of the guys from the church know bishop pike? – have u heard about a spiritualist medium over here in the early seventies that “contacted” bishop pike after he was “lost” – theirs a chapter in her autobiography about what they talked about! – its out of print so ive ordered it from the british library over here – i’ll let you know
if its interesting.
———–
New York City Conference and Telecast
On Iboga and Ibogaine
May 4 & 5, 2003
@The Walker Stage, 56 Walker St.
Sponsors Include:
the Harm Reduction Coalition, MAPS, Association for Drug Prevention and Treatment (ADAPT), Cures not Wars, the Dora Weiner Foundation, The Benu Project, The Greens
PROPOSED DRAFT AGENDA
Sunday, May 4. 2003, noon to 8 pm
12:00 noon – 12:45 pm
Registration $20
12:45 pm – 2:30 pm
Traditional Healing and Religious Practice
Laurent Sazy photo ethnographer
Marendi Bwiti Nganga
Awolowo Johnson sociologist/ Nganga
Discussion
2:30 pm – 3:30 pm
Break
3:30 pm – 5:30 pm
Treatment Providers
Sara Glatt
Patrick Kroupa
Samuel Waizmann*
Howard Lotsof
Marco Resinovik*
Discussion
5:45pm to 8pm
Ibogaine and the Search for Lost Sacraments
Charles Kater, Friends of Bishop Pike*
Frank Morales, Episcopalian
Daniel Pinchbeck, author, BREAKING OPEN THE SKULL
Others, TBA
discussion
Monday, May 5, 2003, 10am to 6pm
10:00 am – 10:30 am
Registration $20
10:30 am – 10:45 am
Introductory remarks
H.S. Lotsof
10:45 am – 1:45 pm
Scientific Panel
Kenneth R. Alper, MD
Deborah C. Mash PhD
Emmanuel Onaivi, Phd
Carl M Anderson, Phd
Discussion
1:45 pm – 3:00 PM
Lunch
3:00 pm – 5:15pm
Politics and Availability
Dana Beal, cures not wars
Vic Hernandez, PhD act up*
Bob Sisko Addiction Research Institute*
Ric Doblin, MAPS
Discussion
5:15pm – 6:00pm
Final Wrap-up Panel
The Monday session will be attended by representatives of various city and state agencies..
————————-
*Invited but not confirmed
————-
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Goobers
Date: March 9, 2003 at 1:41:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Does anyone know where in the archive the Gooberman messages are? Which messags do I request, I think someone posted the URLs for all this around 2 months ago.
Thanks
Peace out,
Curtis
On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 07:26:32 -0800 Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Pubdate: Thu, 6 Mar 2003
Source: New York Times (NY)
Copyright: 2003 The New York Times Company
Contact: letters@nytimes.com
Website: http://www.nytimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/298
Author: Robert Hanley
DOCTORS’ LICENSES SUSPENDED IN TREATMENT OF HEROIN ADDICTS
NEWARK, March 5 – A four-year legal fight over an unorthodox detoxification
treatment for heroin addicts ended today when two doctors who provided
the
treatment agreed to a two-year suspension of their licenses.
As a deputy state attorney general prepared in a hearing today to
ask the
State Board of Medical Examiners to revoke the licenses of the two
doctors,
they agreed at the last minute to a settlement the board first offered
on
Feb. 20.
The settlement requires the doctors, Lance L. Gooberman and David
Bradway,
to pay the state $350,000 for legal costs in its court fight to
end their
practices, $25,500 in civil fines, and $30,000 in restitution to
the
families of seven addicts who died after the treatment and three
others who
were hospitalized. After the doctors’ suspensions, their licenses
will be
restored on a probationary basis for three years.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n361.a08.html
——————————
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Goobers
Date: March 9, 2003 at 10:26:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pubdate: Thu, 6 Mar 2003
Source: New York Times (NY)
Copyright: 2003 The New York Times Company
Contact: letters@nytimes.com
Website: http://www.nytimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/298
Author: Robert Hanley
DOCTORS’ LICENSES SUSPENDED IN TREATMENT OF HEROIN ADDICTS
NEWARK, March 5 – A four-year legal fight over an unorthodox detoxification
treatment for heroin addicts ended today when two doctors who provided the
treatment agreed to a two-year suspension of their licenses.
As a deputy state attorney general prepared in a hearing today to ask the
State Board of Medical Examiners to revoke the licenses of the two doctors,
they agreed at the last minute to a settlement the board first offered on
Feb. 20.
The settlement requires the doctors, Lance L. Gooberman and David Bradway,
to pay the state $350,000 for legal costs in its court fight to end their
practices, $25,500 in civil fines, and $30,000 in restitution to the
families of seven addicts who died after the treatment and three others who
were hospitalized. After the doctors’ suspensions, their licenses will be
restored on a probationary basis for three years.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n361.a08.html
——————————
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [vox] Hippie Crap Saves The World
Date: March 8, 2003 at 8:45:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’ve seen this on every mindvox list so far but this one, so here it
is.
.:vector:.
Hippie Crap Saves The World
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2003/02/28/notes022803.DTL&nl=fix
Hippie Crap Saves The World
Can better orgasms and upping your personal vibe really thwart BushCo
idiocy?
By Mark Morford
Wanna know what conservatives really hate?
What makes everyone from harmless GOP dittoheads to ultra-right-wing
nutjobs full of rage and hiss and homophobia and blind jingoism roll
their eyes and throw up their hands and scamper for their Bibles for
reassurance that life is still repressed and we’re still going to war
and Dubya is still smackin’ ’round the envurment along with them
wimmin
and homosekshuls and furriners?
Why, hippie crap, of course. New-age babble about love and peace and
godless pagan prayer, organic foods and sustainable trees and
chakras,
divinity and luscious goddesses and soul paths and upping your
personal
vibration to counter all the venomous hatred slinging about the
culture
like some sort of conservative, fearmongering weapon of mass
depression. Man, they just hate that.
The incessant drive to war, the blank-eyed young soldiers, the drab
oil
fields, the terse U.N. debates, Rumsfeld’s ink-black eyes, the
violence
and 9/11 and Osama in hiding, Saddam’s sneering and Shrub’s smirking
and Dick Cheney’s defibrillator cranking on 11 — these events are
considered “real,” they are tangible and raw and ugly and happening
right now and we’ve got the pictures to prove it, all over the media,
grainy and grim and mean, CNN and Fox News and frowning pundits and
100-point newspaper headlines, so you know it must be true.
Then there’s you, walking through your daily life right now, eating
and
laughing and screwing and paying rent and thinking for yourself,
filtering the onslaught and trying to remain connected to something
divine and universal and authentic, all while straining to put this
national trend toward violence and warmongering into some sort of
acceptable frame.
You are not “real” in this same way. This is the feeling. Your
experience is somehow irrelevant; what you do and how you maneuver
this
daily treachery is an insignificant side note to the big ugly daily
political machinations because hey, it’s war. It’s the Big Boys.
Angry
White Men with very serious penis issues. All that matters is the
machine, and the money, and the oil, and the WMD and the drumbeat
rhetoric.
Which is, of course, utter BS. Here is what conservatives hate most:
the idea that you really can, and do, make a difference. That you,
hopefully working to align yourself with something deeper and more
informed and perhaps not exactly Christian, or corporate, not exactly
lockstep mainstream flag-waving God-fearing asexual consumer drone,
you
can affect the world, directly, right now, in ways you might not even
realize, in ways that make them tremble and wince, in how much you
laugh and love and eat and sleep and screw and breathe and in how
deeply you penetrate into the soul’s raison d’etre. But you gotta
work
at it. And it ain’t easy. See? Fluffy new-age crap. They really hate
that.
Here is the great fallacy of the American ethos, the one that powers
SUV purchases and spawns a billion McDonald’s franchises and gun
purchases and Adam Sandler movies: it is the notion that Americans
exist in a freewheelin’ vacuum, that our daily choices don’t, in
fact,
affect the world, and our neighbors, and our children, and the
environment and our own bodies.
It is the idea that those very choices — foods you eat, cars you
drive, shows you watch, personal relations you have, waste you
create,
choices you make — can’t, in a very real and immediate way, erode
your
divine links, spit on your spiritual spark, taint your mystical meat.
Every single one, every single time.
In other words, in buying that gun, smacking that child, abusing that
spouse, screaming at that neighbor, buying that thuggish SUV,
supporting that war, wishing death upon all them damn furriners, you
may think you’re exercising your God-given all-‘Murkin right to
do/say/drive whatever the hell you want because you’re an American
goddammit and no one will tell you how to live so back off.
Not quite. Rather, you are also injecting a deliberate dose of bitter
bile straight into the cultural bloodstream, actually — and quite
literally — lowering the general vibration of the human collective
cause, casting your vote for small-mindedness and solipsism and
violence. Yep, you are. And yes indeed, your vote counts.
Here is the gist: The world consists of energy, billions of swirling
masses of it contained in living vessels — that’s you — and aimed
out
to the world, often radiating at random, intermingling, interacting,
often uncontrolled and unaware, an enormous dizzying gorgeous complex
kaleidoscopic organism of human interaction and interplay. We are
abuzz. We are electric. We possess actual psychic and electromagnetic
force. Duh. It’s a fact.
It comes down to simple physics. Negative begets negative. Positive
begets positive. War begets war, peace begets peace, Britney begets
Christina begets N’Sync begets People magazine begets “Joe
Millionaire”
begets 10 million Prozac prescriptions begets a billion dumbed-down
mind-sets, embittered souls. In a nutshell.
ShrubCo blindly steers the nation like a giant careening Hummer
toward
the history-mauling notion of preemptive violence, of attacking
anyone
who might somehow threaten the U.S. even before such a threat is
tangible. He beats the war drum, staffs his administration with
enough
hawks to start 1,000 wars, slams the environment, cuts women’s
rights,
etcetera and so on — this all turns that swirling mass of energy
that
much more dark, vicious, angry, dumb.
And the world begins to follow. The culture darkens, people run
scared,
reactionary, depressed. The negative feeds upon itself, the tide
turns,
you are hit more and more frequently with that overwhelming feeling
that we are in dire and ugly and powder-keg times, worse than ever,
emotionally raw, politically appalling, spiritually hollow. Sound
familiar?
Whereas notions of peace, individual thought, reason, simple acts of
attuned mindfulness, of buying products and foods that sustain the
planet, of making really good messy enthusiastic generous love, of
regular laughter in the face of scowling Ashcroft or Cheney’s
corporate
henchmen, of reading deeply and recalling wisdom people like the
Dalai
Lama talk about all the time — these things literally up your
anima’s
vibration, add positive energy back in, turn the collective volume
back
up.
That postcoital buzz? That post-party feel-good vibe? That genuine
laughter? That gratuitously kind thing you did for that stranger?
That
celebration of your body and your sex and love and spirit in spite of
mainstream religious puling and finger wagging? That deep meditative
solitude? Bingo. That’s the vibe you want. That’s the vibe we all
need.
That’s the vibration that makes all the difference.
But it’s also the one that takes serious work and determination and
you
gotta do it every single day and it can only come from you. This sort
of luminous divine power is messy and raw and hot and attaining more
of
it can be the most difficult thing you’ve ever done. But really, what
else is there?
Look. Mystics and healers and sages and scientists and philosophers
across the spiritual spectrum have known it for millennia: More
advanced and enlightened souls — and cultures — vibrate at a higher
level, a more bright and rigorous pitch. It’s true. Bliss and joy and
notions of peace and healing and laughter and personal choice, these
things crank up the vibe. War and angst and fear and self-fulfilling
prophecies of war and preemptive strikes and Jenna Bush, these things
slam it down.
So then. You want to really annoy the conservative warmongering
powers
that be? Work your ass off to pump up the vibration. It’s deeply
personal. It’s hard work. It means re-evaluating what you do and how
you do it and how you treat others, the planet, what you buy and what
you eat. It means learning. And it also means loving harder, more raw
and real, minimal BS, minimal waste, figuring out true messy ugly
slippery gorgeous divinity for yourself, on your own terms, and then
sharing it with the world.
Man, they really hate that.
__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Vancouver Mayor Supports Giving Heroin to Hard-Core Users
Date: March 8, 2003 at 8:48:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.herointimes.com/feb03/worldwatch.html
Vancouver Mayor Supports Giving Heroin to Hard-Core Users
Vancouver, BC, Mayor Larry Campbell is pushing for an initiative
similar to a Swiss program that provides daily doses of pure heroin to
individuals addicted to the drug.
Switzerland’s heroin-maintenance program, the only one of its kind in
the world, has been in existence for eight years. Although
controversial, officials say the program has been successful in
treating individuals with hard-core heroin addiction.
“I can see this kind of a program operating in Vancouver,” Campbell
said. “It’s an effective way of treating a small but very resistant
group of people addicted to heroin. In fact, by rights we should be
offering prescription cocaine to the hardest addicts, because they
often are hooked on both.”
__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] It’s backkkkkk 🙂
Date: March 8, 2003 at 8:57:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This is hysterical and dead on. Patrick when you answer your mail one
of these decades? Put up the original version that isn’t toned down 🙂
.:vector:.
“You Say ‘Felony’, I say ‘Hobby'”
http://heroinhelper.com/angry/wonderful_things.shtml
Wonderful things I Have Learned From Having Been Fortunate Enough to
Spend Most of My Life on the Receiving End of the War on Drugs
by Patrick Kroupa Š 2000
[Editor’s Note: This piece was written before 9-11-01. Because of the
events of that day, things have changed a little. Now it seems we have
a new “shared enemy”, but drug users are singled out even more in this
new world view. It takes a cold, calloused culture to label a drug
addict a terrorist. Drug addicts are already beaten down further than
any civilized culture would permit. This piece addresses this fact. We
add only that things are not the same as when this piece was written.
Things are worse.]
The War on Drugs has taught me that I belong to the last tribe of
niggers on the planet: drug users–an entire strata of society that it
is all right to demonize, hate, harass, and incarcerate for the crime
of altering my state of consciousness against the government’s wishes.
Because I am guilty of this crime, I have no rights. I may be detained,
searched without cause, disrespected, have my property confiscated; and
on that one occasion out of one thousand, that I’m not fast enough,
aware enough, or just tired… I will be sentenced to torture–where
whatever branch of law enforcement I am subject to, will throw me into
a cell where I may sweat, shake, vomit, and experience withdrawal
without medical attention. Apparently this is okay, because I’m just a
junkie, and therefore do not have basic human rights.
This will continue until I get before a judge and any halfway competent
lawyer has the “case” against me dismissed… Because almost
invariably, the “case” begins with illegal search and seizure and a
violation of my “rights”.
This is fine, because I’m white and have usually had access to money;
this means I am a better person, and might be worthy of reasonable
legal representation. Therefore, I will not be joining the hundreds of
people I have personally known, whose fate is to be ground up by the
system, and dumped into prisons — for the crime of being in the wrong
place at the wrong time. In other words, a drug sweep, where the local
branch of TNT has a monthly quota to meet, and will shake you down if
you’re unfortunate enough to be the wrong color, driving the wrong car,
or they’re just in a bad mood.
Obviously, people who use drugs are a menace to society and should be
thrown into prison with an interesting variety of violent
offenders–except, if at all possible, with longer sentences–because,
after all, the violent offenders just have some issues and things to
work out; the drug users aren’t even human beings. There’s nothing more
damaging to the entire fabric of society than a bunch of people who
just smoked pot, descending on a donut shop all at once; or a heroin
addict nodding out on a couch.
If I want to stop using heroin, it’s okay with the government if I take
methadone–a narcotic analgesic, far more addictive than heroin, but
legal. But really, I shouldn’t complain; federal and state regulations
for dispensing methadone are relatively enlightened. It is not yet
necessary to be tattooed, branded, or relocated to a methadone
maintenance camp. It’s just fine if I take buprenorphine, it’s even a
wonderful idea if I get into a LAAM maintenance program. The fact that
LAAM may cause Q-T prolongation, torsades, and kill me, is all right.
Because, it’s legal. And after all, it’s just another sedative, it’s
not something that’s going to cause any radical paradigm shift to take
place.
Should I ever require medical attention for any period of time longer
than a few hours round-trip through an ER to have something
stitched-up, making it necessary for me to inform the attending doctors
that I am on narcotic analgesics; I will be treated like human garbage.
While in the hospital it will take roughly 45 phone calls, 6 feet of
forms signed in triplicate, and 3 days minimum, for them to finally
agree to dose me with methadone at anywhere near the levels I need just
to avoid acute opiate withdrawal. By which time, in addition to
whatever other problem I had that caused me to enter their facility in
the first place, I will be in acute opiate withdrawal.
If I ever make the personal choice to stop using narcotics, the options
presented to me will be a series of medical professionals–touting the
latest miracle-treatments which don’t work. These addictionologists and
other drug experts, for the most part, don’t know a fucking thing about
addiction. They have never used any drugs. They have however, read a
lot of books, written by other medical professionals who, for the most
part, don’t know a fucking thing about addiction.
Reading those same books for yourself, will allow you to sum up almost
all current knowledge about the psychobiological causes of addiction in
about two sentences: “We have a lot of theories, but really, we know
almost nothing about addiction. We don’t even know why people become
addicted in the first place–when others with the same genetics,
environment, and psychological make-up do not; or why those who get off
drugs, manage this.”
Unless I leave the country and pay ludicrous amounts of money for it —
something which most drug-dependent individuals have no way of
affording–I will be denied access to the most promising breakthrough
in the history of drug-treatment; namely ibogaine. For all the smoke
and mirrors, game playing, and lip service paid, to the variety of
reasons why ibogaine isn’t of much interest to anyone — except those
who would like to stop being addicted to addictive drugs — the bottom
line is, it’s a hallucinogen, and hallucinogens have a plethora of
negative side-effects.
Such as, for instance, the 60’s. We don’t want that. All entheogens are
bad. Entheogens present the possibility for radical paradigm shifts to
take place, and the user may make some revelatory discoveries about the
nature of their reality. This is super-bad; much better is just going
to a meeting and sharing. Most of the 12-step programs have turned into
something that nearly resembles an interesting parody of what they
originally were–extremely old eastern concepts for dismantling ego,
specifically rewritten to apply to drug-dependent individuals who are
acclimated to western culture. They have become this cult of eternal
powerlessness, where you can participate in an never-ending circle-jerk
of sitting around and complaining about things; fight an endless battle
against a mysterious disease and never again take any chemical
additives or personal responsibility for your actions. Okay, having
said that, let’s all go out into the parking lot and chain smoke, drink
coffee and eat candy bars… Say, is it time for my meds yet?
If I somehow manage to get off heroin and do the one thing that
actually works–establish or re-establish, my own connection to
spirituality, cosmic consciousness, God, whatever you’d like to call it
— ingesting my sacrament is against the law. Entheogens, crack,
heroin, alcohol–no wait, not alcohol, alcohol is good for you–it’s
all the same shit; just another drug. I am once again either forced to
leave the country, or commit a felony every time I feel a need to go to
church. Apparently I have freedom of religion so long as my religion
involves hanging out and talking about the experience, instead of
actually having it for myself.
The War on Drugs does not work. It cannot work. It is a war against
human nature, genetics, evolution, and the attempt to take away my
basic freedom as an individual to select my own state of consciousness.
Because apparently I am not an adult and not fit to make these choices;
therefore those who know what’s best for me must attempt to legislate
my state of mind. This is not fascism, this is simply the government
looking out for my best interests and ensuring that I am fully vested
in whatever paradigm they wish to sell.
Despite the fact that it cannot work, it’s important to invest just a
few hundred trillion more dollars in the War on Drugs, because we’re
running out of enemies to hate… That whole entire Cold War thing has
sort of faded away; there doesn’t seem to be an immediate need to
Enforce Democracy in any middle-eastern country; and the War on Drugs
serves to galvanize people, gives them emotional investment, and
presents a clear-cut right and wrong. It’s important to have a
clear-cut right and wrong that doesn’t require anybody to think.
Thinking is dangerous and undesirable. Besides, we have this theory
that the War on Drugs is “winnable.” This is obvious to anyone who
looks at the results to date. There is no lack of drugs, basically,
anywhere. The number of people using drugs has not decreased. While the
street price of drugs hasn’t gone up, the purity levels have steadily
risen. However, hey, we sure do have a lot of people in prison! In
fact, America has more people filling its prisons, than any other
country on the planet. We must be doing something very right, this is
great… Especially if you’re in the private prison industry.
In addition to all this, if drug prohibition were repealed, the
economies of entire third-world countries which are currently propped
up by all this, would suffer a severe blow; perhaps collapsing. And, of
course, the people who profit by large-scale distribution of
materials–which are essentially worthless, and have had their value
artificially inflated to being worth more than gold dust, because
they’re illegal–would have to go find something else to do. Like, for
instance, go get a job, or enter the slave-trading industry.
Aside from all the noise, we actually have no real problem with drugs.
They perpetuate the powerlessness of the poor, they give everybody on
all sides of the issues something to do, and perhaps best of all: there
are a lot of people who once had the potential to effect change, cause
paradigm shifts to take place, and used to be a real pain in the
ass–who have voluntarily taken themselves out and self-destructed. All
thanks to drugs. What’s not to like?
__________________________________________________
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] cocaine impedes immune response
Date: March 8, 2003 at 6:05:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pubdate: Thu, 06 Mar 2003
Source: Wall Street Journal (US)
Copyright: 2003 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
Contact: wsj.ltrs@wsj.com
Website: http://www.wsj.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/487
Author: Peter Landers
STUDY MAY EXPLAIN WHY USERS OF COCAINE GET SICK SO OFTEN
Addiction specialists at Harvard University think they have found one
reason that cocaine users seem to get sick so often: The drug restricts
production of a body protein that triggers immune responses.
Doctors have often noted that cocaine users suffer more infections,
including the AIDS virus. One theory holds that this is because cocaine
users are more likely to engage in dangerous behavior such as unsafe sex.
But a study published in this month’s Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and
Metabolism suggests that cocaine also has a direct effect on the body’s
infection-fighting chemistry.
John Halpern and colleagues at McLean Hospital and Harvard Medical School
gave an injection of either cocaine or a placebo to a human volunteer in
one arm while placing a catheter in the veins of the volunteer’s other arm.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n357.a01.html
——————————
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] DRUG BOOKS EARN MAN $6000 FINE
Date: March 7, 2003 at 11:40:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pubdate: Fri, 28 Feb 2003
Source: Daily News, The (New Zealand)
Copyright: 2003, Independent Newspapers Limited
Contact: editor@tnl.co.nz
Website: http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,0a1803,FF.html
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/1056
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/areas/New+Zealand
DRUG BOOKS EARN MAN $6000 FINE
John Setters loves studying how ancient cultures such as the Aztecs
and Incas used drugs in their religious rites.
But yesterday his passion cost him dearly. The 32-year-old Tauranga
man was fined in Tauranga District Court for importing drug-related
books which the Customs Department said were objectionable.
The currency trader copped a $6000 fine after admitting eight Customs
and Excise Act offences.
Setters had a fascination for Shamanism — an ancient religion based
on witchcraft — and mind-altering plants for the past 15 years.
His passion also covered how ancient cultures such as the South
American tribes, the Aztecs and Incas, combined drugs and religion.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n333.a02.html
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Rosenthal Trial Spurs National Outrage
Date: March 7, 2003 at 5:59:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
How can a jury make an informed decision when there are relevant facts
suppressed. That doesn’t make sense and to that end doesn’t seem a fair
trial.
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:53 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Rosenthal Trial Spurs National Outrage
Rosenthal Trial Spurs National Outrage
New “Change the Climate” Billboard Campaign Challenges Jurors, Voters
OAKLAND, CA –Responding to outrage over the recent conviction of Oakland
medical marijuana provider Ed Rosenthal and to the many upcoming medical
marijuana trials, national advocacy group Change the Climate, Inc. is
installing 150 billboards around the Bay Area. The billboard campaign is
endorsed by Americans for Safe Access (ASA), who will be holding a press
conference with Rosenthal March 6, 2003 at 11am at 36th and Market in
Oakland, CA in front of one of the billboards.
“These billboards make it difficult for both the public and politicians to
ignore the plight of medical marijuana patients and providers. The more the
federal government persecutes, the more national support develops,” says ASA
Director Steph Sherer.
The first of the red, white and blue billboards exclaims “Free Ed. Free the
Jury. Free America.” Jurors in Rosenthal’s case were not allowed to hear the
phrase “medical marijuana” and were uninformed about jury nullification. The
other billboard reads, “Vote your Conscience. Free America.” “Californians
who care about medical marijuana have to vote their conscience in the ballot
box and the jury box. These billboards help to remind people of their rights
and responsibilities,” Sherer said.
“We want to drive home the point that Attorney General John Ashcroft’s
assault on medical marijuana laws California voters enacted violates our
fundamental freedoms. We hope to encourage jurors and concerned citizens to
take appropriate action,” said Joseph H. White, Executive Director of Change
the Climate.
On March 3, Medical marijuana activists in Washington, DC, took appropriate
action and protested Democratic Presidential Candidate, Former-Governor
Howard Dean, the only candidate who has killed medical marijuana
legislation. “Americans for Safe Access is going to hold the 2004 candidates
accountable. We have an obligation to inform voters on the candidates’
positions,” says DC ASA Field Organizer Adam Eidinger.
WHO: Americans for Safe Access, medical marijuana provider Ed Rosenthal, and
others
WHAT: Press Conference on Nationally-Organized Bay Area Billboard Campaign
WHERE: 36th and Market, Oakland
WHEN: March 6, 2003 at 11 am
More information is available at
www.changetheclimate.com/campaigns/03_03_ca/.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Rosenthal Trial Spurs National Outrage
Date: March 6, 2003 at 6:53:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Rosenthal Trial Spurs National Outrage
New “Change the Climate” Billboard Campaign Challenges Jurors, Voters
OAKLAND, CA –Responding to outrage over the recent conviction of Oakland
medical marijuana provider Ed Rosenthal and to the many upcoming medical
marijuana trials, national advocacy group Change the Climate, Inc. is
installing 150 billboards around the Bay Area. The billboard campaign is
endorsed by Americans for Safe Access (ASA), who will be holding a press
conference with Rosenthal March 6, 2003 at 11am at 36th and Market in
Oakland, CA in front of one of the billboards.
“These billboards make it difficult for both the public and politicians to
ignore the plight of medical marijuana patients and providers. The more the
federal government persecutes, the more national support develops,” says ASA
Director Steph Sherer.
The first of the red, white and blue billboards exclaims “Free Ed. Free the
Jury. Free America.” Jurors in Rosenthal’s case were not allowed to hear the
phrase “medical marijuana” and were uninformed about jury nullification. The
other billboard reads, “Vote your Conscience. Free America.” “Californians
who care about medical marijuana have to vote their conscience in the ballot
box and the jury box. These billboards help to remind people of their rights
and responsibilities,” Sherer said.
“We want to drive home the point that Attorney General John Ashcroft’s
assault on medical marijuana laws California voters enacted violates our
fundamental freedoms. We hope to encourage jurors and concerned citizens to
take appropriate action,” said Joseph H. White, Executive Director of Change
the Climate.
On March 3, Medical marijuana activists in Washington, DC, took appropriate
action and protested Democratic Presidential Candidate, Former-Governor
Howard Dean, the only candidate who has killed medical marijuana
legislation. “Americans for Safe Access is going to hold the 2004 candidates
accountable. We have an obligation to inform voters on the candidates’
positions,” says DC ASA Field Organizer Adam Eidinger.
WHO: Americans for Safe Access, medical marijuana provider Ed Rosenthal, and
others
WHAT: Press Conference on Nationally-Organized Bay Area Billboard Campaign
WHERE: 36th and Market, Oakland
WHEN: March 6, 2003 at 11 am
More information is available at
www.changetheclimate.com/campaigns/03_03_ca/.
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Storming the Gates
Date: March 6, 2003 at 12:03:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
missing from this year’s financial totals!
By far the
largest and most startling financial manipulations are
within
the
Department of Justice (DOJ), which reported a reduction of more than
$5.5
billion dollars in drug-war related expenses between 2002 and 2003.
Remarkably, the majority of costs removed are those associated with
the
incarceration and care of federal drug prisoners!
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Look at 3) & 8)
Date: March 5, 2003 at 9:15:33 PM EST
To: b g <slobyroby@yahoo.com>
Cc: hsl123@aol.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Give me your reaction to 3) Standing and 8) Product Formulation and
the Analogs Act. 8 needs work (short description of each formulation
would be nice… Dana)
From: b g <slobyroby@yahoo.com>
Subject: revised draft of ibo resh pet
To: hsl123@aol.com
Cc: dana@cures-not-wars.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com
Status:
I made those changes.
Here is a revised draft of an adaptation of another
dea
Rescheduling Petition to move Ibogaine from Schedule I
down to Schedule III.
1. Current Status
Rescheduling Ibogaine from Schedule I to Schedule III.
Ibogaine currently is a Schedule I drug under the
Controlled
Substance Act (“CSA”). As Such, it has been
stigmatized as
Purportedly having (a) a high potential for abuse; (b)
no currently
accepted medial use in treatment; and (C) lack of
accepted safety
for use under medical supervision.
Schedule I designation presents numerous difficulties
for potential
researchers and investigators. It serves to inhibit
research, limit
public funding, and discourage private investment
capital needed for
development of this promising anti-addictive
medication.
2. The Need to Reschedule
A petition or other action to reschedule Ibogaine will
be necessary sooner or later. Given the current state
of scientific knowledge regarding Ibogaine and its use
in the treatment of opioid dependence, a downward
rescheduling to Schedule III, a restrictive level for
items with broad medical use with some paperwork and
distribution requirements, would be an approiate
placement.
The question therefore is whether we should proceed
sooner rather
than later. Since the rescheduling process is lengthy,
taking months
and sometimes years to achieve, I feel we should
undertake an
initiative to reschedule as soon as practical, perhaps
in conjunction
with our application for Orphan Drug Status.
3. Standing
The history of the litigation to re-schedule cannabis as a Schedule
II drug makes it abundantly clear that the DEA’s own re-scheduling
process defers unduly to the original listing of certain drugs as
Schedule I by Congress when the Controlled Substances Act was enacted
in 1970. Judge Clarence Thomas’s opinion in the U.S. vs the Oakland
Buyer’s Club made it clear that the Judicial Branch currently feels
that it is up to Congress–not doctors or judges–to determine which
substances have medical uses. Yet while the U.S. Supreme Court may
invoke the doctrine of Congressional Supremacy, the fact that 9
states have approved medical use of marijuana has had an undeniable
political impact on all levels of the Federal Government
Ibogaine was grandfathered into the Controlled Substances Act because
of the World Health Assembly’s 1968 classification of ibogaine with
the hallucinogens as “a substance likely to cause dependency or
endanger human health.” By virtue of being on that list, Ibogaine
became schedule I when New York enacted its own version of the CSA.
Therefore, the route of rescheduling Ibogaine through the state
legislative process, while not perfect, may be the most practical way
to go–especially if pursued with a view to establishing a hearing
record in tandem with the present effort in Congress.
4. Medical Use
Under Schedule I category, a drug is deemed to have no
medically
accepted use in treatment in the United States. Under
Schedule III
the drug is deemed safe enough for general
distribution, while
maintaining record keeping and other regulations to
prevent diversion.
Schedule III is actually somewhat strict given that
Ibogaine has no
record of abuse, but we feel this level would offer
the best
compromise between a full de-scheduling and an overly
restrictive
Schedule II (which includes cocaine and other
dependence forming
drugs). Ibogaine has no history of abuse and its
classification as a
Hallucinogen is being questioned by scientific
authorities.
When Ibogaine was first listed as a Schedule I
substance, there was
no known medical use. However, beginning in 1986, a
series of US
patents were issued that disclosed new medical uses
for Ibogaine for
the first time. These included its use in the
treatment of narcotic
addiction (Lotsof, 1985); treatment for cocaine and
amphetamine abuse
(Lotsof, 1986), alcoholism (Lotsof, 1989), nicotine
dependency
(Lotsof, 1991); poly-drug dependency (Lotsof, 1992);
reduction in
excitotoxic brain damage (Olney, 1997); and for
treatment of
neuropathic pain (Olney, 1998).
The rational for the medical use of Ibogaine in the
treatment of
addictive disorders is supported by scores of
peer-review papers that
indicate Ibogaine, among other things, ameliorates the
withdrawal
syndrome in opiate-dependent rats (Dzoljic, 1988;
Glick, 1994), and
alcohol (Rezvani, 1995) in the animal model.
In 1993, the FDA authorized the University of Miami
researchers J. Sanchos Ramos and Deborah Mash to
conduct a Phase 1 dose escalation study. Once
completed, Dr. Mash moved the research to an off-shore
location, where she and her colleagues conduct ongoing
phase II studies on the island of St. Kitts, under the
auspices of Healing Visions Institute for Addictions
Recovery, Inc., a corporation doing business in the
State of Florida.
Mash (2001) reported she has evaluated the safety of
Ibogaine in more than 150 patients receiving a dose
within the reported therapeutic range (8, 10, 12
mg/kg) under open label conditions, and that a single
dose of Ibogaine was well tolerated in drug dependent
subjects. No significant adverse effects were seen
under study conditions.
According to a recent report in the Wall Street
Journal by Naik (July 15, 2002), Dr. Mash supervised
use of Ibogaine to treat about 300 drug-dependent
patients. The patients, most of whom were American,
paid an average of $10,000.00 for the treatment.
The fact is that a team of renown US doctors,
pharmacologists, and addiction professionals have
found the use of Ibogaine in the treatment drug
dependency medically acceptable, but are compelled to
administer it to US citizens in an offshore setting.
This clearly demonstrates the pressing need to
reschedule Ibogaine from a Schedule I to a Schedule
III substance. Based upon the state of scientific
knowledge at the present time, rescheduling is wholly
appropriate.
In keeping with the language of Schedule III, which
stipulates reporting and distribution restrictions,
regarding its prescription and medical uses. Ibogaine
as proposed in the treatment of opoid withdrawal is
intended for supervised (nurse/ doctor?) manner, with
access to specific vital signs monitoring, and certain
emergency response equipment and procedures.
5. Potential for Abuse:
Schedule I, II and II stipulate that the drug has
potential for abuse.
While we do not need to refute this notion in order to
qualify for the downward reduction to schedule III
status, it should be noted that the perception that
Ibogaine has “a high potential for abuse” has not been
born out by either science or statistics.
The available evidence does not appear to suggest that
Ibogaine has significant potential for abuse. None of
the consultants to NIDA in the 1995 Ibogaine Review
Meeting identified the possible abuse of Ibogaine as a
potential safety concern (Alper 2001). Ibogaine is
reportedly neither rewarding nor adversive in the
conditioned place preference paradigm (Parker, 1995).
Despite being a Schedule I substance for over 30
years, there has been no reports of Ibogaine abuse
among drug users. There has never been a seizure of
any consequence of Ibogaine reported by either the
Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) or local law
enforcement anywhere in the United States, nor have
there been any reports of street arrests for
possession or use of Ibogaine.
The only reported illicit use of Ibogaine consisted of
anecdotal reports by or about addict self-help
organizations and individuals who utilize the drug for
purposes of detoxification. It should further be
noted that those who have taken the drug report that
it’s effects were not pleasant or enjoyable and that
most show no desire to repeat the experience.
Nevertheless, Ibogaine is still controlled and
scheduled as if it “has a high potential for abuse,
and has no medical use or value”, both of which are
totally untrue. Because of its current Scheduling we
anticipate that the questions relating to possible
diversion to the illicit market will be raised. Since
Ibogaine is intended to be administered only in a
controlled medical setting, the chance of diversion is
minimal. Furthermore, there has been no reported
street use of Ibogaine as a drug of abuse.
6. Safety Considerations
A Schedule I designation carries the supposition that
there is a lack of accepted safety for the use of the
drug.
Since being designated a Schedule I substance,
multiple laboratories have evaluated Ibogaine for
signs of neurotoxicity. While O’Hearn (1993) reported
neurotoxic effects at a dose range of 100 mg/kg,
Molinari (1996) found no neurotoxicity present at 40
mg/kg.
Xu (2000) reported that 25 mg/kg corresponds to a
no-observable-adverse effect level (NOAEL). The dose
range utilized in treatment of opioids withdrawal
(15-25 mg/kg) falls within the NOAEL range. The LD50
of p.o. Ibogaine is reportedly 145 mg/kg i.p. in the
rat and 175 mg/kg in mice.
Glick et al (1999) found no change in the resting
heart rate or blood pressure at a dose of Ibogaine of
40 mg/kg i.p. Mash (1999) reported intensive cardiac
monitoring in 39 human subjects dependent on cocaine
and/or heroin who received fixed doses of Ibogaine
(500, 600, 800 or 1,000 mg. ) No significant adverse
effects were seen under study conditions.
Luciano (1998; 2000) reported results of EEGs
administered before and after Ibogaine treatment where
addicted patients received 20-25 mg/kg. No General
medical or EEG abnormalities were seen. At 24 hours
after treatment, all neurological examinations were
normal, and patients did not have subjective or
objective signs of withdrawal.
Mash (2001) reported she has evaluated the safety of
Ibogaine in more than 150 patients receiving a dose
within the reported therapeutic range (8, 10, 12
mg/kg) under open label conditions, and that a single
dose of Ibogaine was well tolerated in drug dependent
subjects. No significant adverse effects were seen
under study conditions.
There have been several Ibogaine related fatalities in
Europe, and one in the United States. None of the
reported deaths occurred under clinical conditions.
Autopsyreports failed to establish that Ibogaine
itself was the cause of death of any fatality, though
several reports indicated Ibogaine could have been a
contributing factor. The surreptitious use of heroin
or other drugs has created a source of uncertainty
regarding several reported fatalities. In the U.S., a
death occurred in Florida within 30 days of an
Ibogaine treatment administered abroad. Autopsy
reports concluded that the death was due to natural
causes and not related to Ibogaine.
7. Defining the Nature of Ibogaine
Ibogaine has been classified as a hallucinogen and as
such, has been compared at times to LSD, also a
schedule I drug. It should be noted that
notwithstanding the comparison, Ibogaine has never
shared the popularity of LSD, probably because it’s
effects are reported as not being pleasurable and to
interrupt drug use.
The concept that Ibogaine is a hallucinogenic drug is
no longer unanimous in scientific circles. According
to French chemist Robert Goutarel, former director of
the Natural Substances Division of the CNRS (National
Center for Scientific Research), the best was to
classify the effects is as “oneiropherenic” rather
than hallucinogenic. Others prefer the term
“remogenic” to define the psychological effects of
Ibogaine.
Oneirorphrenia has been defined as “states produced by
drugs that differ from hallucinogenic states by the
absence of any psychotic symptoms while sharing with
the hallucinogenic experience the preeminence of a
primary thought process.” Mash (2001) reported that
following the administration of Ibogaine, no episodes
of psychosis or major affective disorder were
detected. Luciano (1998) reported that in patients he
observed receiving between 20 and 25 mg/kg,
reality-testing remained normal in all cases, and
there were no signs or symptoms of anxiety or thought
disorder. These observations are consistent with the
above definition of oneirophrenia.
Some, but not all, patients treated with Ibogaine
experience visualizations during the dream-like state
experienced at the initial onset of the drug. Luciano
(1998) reported that only one of three patients
receiving 20-25 mg/kg experienced visual Hallucinosis,
and then, only when their eyes were cosec. Some have
theorized that these are not hallucinations per se,
but are visualizations of repressed memories revealed
in a waking dream-like state. These visualizations
appear to assist the patient in understanding his
underlying psychopathology and bringing about
cathartic change that supports the interruption of
drug use.
Proponents of this theory sometimes refer to Ibogaine
not as “hallucinogenic”, but as “remogenic”, since it
places the patient into a waking state or REM in which
they experience the release of repressed memories
visual, as if in a dream, albeit a “waking dream-like
state”. Anecdotal reports mention having observed
REM-like eye movements in awake patients during
treatments.
Gouteral (1993) describes the psychological effects of
Ibogaine as a state that involves a “dream phenomenon
without loss of consciousness or change in the
perception of the environment or any illusions or
formal deterioration of thought and without
depersonalization.” He states that Ibogaine has been
“unjustly condemned as a hallucinogen”, and suggested
that a REM-like state induced by Ibogaine corresponds
to a window of heightened neural plasticity, with
reprocessing of previously learned information and the
formation of new associations. This process acts to
modify the pathology of learned addiction, weakening
the pathological links between drug-taking cues and
responses.
8. Product Formulation and the Analogs Act
Iboga-based medications now include Ibogaine HCl, Des-methylated (or
“nor”) ibogaine, the experimental drug 18-methoxycoronaridine, and
various whole plant alkaloid extracts. Among treatment professionals,
each has its adherents. In the case of nor-ibogaine and 18-MC,
patent-holders developed their compound explicitly to satisfy various
safety concerns of the FDA and NIDA. They believe that their
compounds, unlike Ibogaine HCl or the whole plant extracts, are
sufficiently different that they do not fall under the CSA. However,
since the molecular structure involved is virtually identical, and
the mechanism of action is substantially the same, it is difficult to
see how they would fall under the purview of various “look-alike
laws” or “Anolog Acts” if the classifying agency (DEA or Justice
Dept.) chose to apply them.
Therefore, it is in the interest of research into safer congeners of
Ibogaine to re-schedule the parent plant and principal molecule in a
less restrictive category.
9. Comments from interested parties
In response to any action to reschedule Ibogaine,
there will no doubt be many comments by interested
parties addressed to the Drug Enforcement
Administration (DEA) regarding this matter. Some will
favor rescheduling, others might be against it. We
can anticipate comments will be submitted from such
parties as: National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA)
and their Medications Development Division (MDD);
Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS); Food
and Drug Administration (FDA); College of Problems of
Drug Dependence (CPDD); American Association for the
Treatment of Opoid Dependence (AATOD); American
Psychiatric Association (APA); American Society of
Addiction Medicine (ASAM); the National Alliance of
Methadone Advocates (NAMA); and others.
We can probably anticipate public hearings, as the
development of Ibogaine as a medical treatment for
addiction has become a matter of great public
interest. NIDA and FDA meetings relating to Ibogaine
have always attracted public participation and
generated interest from the media.
10. Effect of Rescheduling
The practical effect of rescheduling Ibogaine from
Schedule I down to Schedule III will be to permit
easier access to researchers, investigators to pursue
Ibogaine research. If the reports up to the present
of Ibogaine’s reportedly high success rate vs. Heroin
addiction, we can expect Ibogaine to become the
premiere treatment/ detox method allowing users to
avoid most if not all withdrawal symptoms, while
facilitating rapid psychological self assessment,
reflection and ultimately experience a life free of
both physical and emotional drug cravings. The cost
savings provided by this method, as opposed to
methadone maintenance, long term rehab, and prison,
will be in the many billions of dollars annually. And
this will happen with out posing any risk of illicit
diversion nor abuse.
Bibliography will be added the first week of march
References:
Aceto, M.D., Bowman, E., Harris, L.S., Dependence
Studies of New Compounds in the Rhesus Monkey, Rat,
and Mouse, NIDA Research Monograph Series Problems of
Drug Dependence 1989, 96:607 (1990)
Aceto, M.D., Bowman, E., Harris, L.S., Dependence
Studies of New Compounds in the Rhesus Monkey, Rat,
and Mouse, NIDA Research Monograph Series Problems of
Drug Dependence 1991, 119: 519 (1992)
Alper, K. ìIbogaine: A Reviewî The Alkaloids 56: 1-38
(2001)
Cappendijk, S,L,T, Dzolijic, M.R. ìInhibitory Effects
of Ibogaine on Cocaine Self-Administration in Ratsî
Eur. J of Pharmacology 241:261-265 (1993)
Dzoljic, E.D., Kaplan, C.D., Dzoljic, M.R. ìEffects of
Ibogaine on nalozone-percipitated withdrawal syndrome
on chronic morphine-dependant ratsî, Archives of Intl.
Pharmacodynamics 294, 64-70 (1988)
Goutarel, R., Golnhoffer, N., Sillans, R.
ìPharmacodynamics and the Therapeutic Applications of
Iboga and Ibogaineî Psychedelic Monographs and Essays
6: 71-111 (1993)
Glick, S.D., Rossman, K., Steinddorf, S., Maisonneuve,
I.M., Carlson, J.N ìEffects and Aftereffects of
Ibogaine on Morphine Self-Administration in Ratsî Eur
J. of Pharmacology 195: 341-345 (1991)
Glick, S.D., Rossman, K., Steinddorf, S., Maisonneuve,
I.M., Carlson, J.N ìEffects of Ibogaine on Acute Signs
of Morphine Withdrawal in Rats: Independence from
Tremorî, Neuropharmacology 31 (5) 497-500 (1992)
Glick, S.D., Kuehne, M.E., Raucci, J., Wilson, T.E.,
Larson, E., Keller Jr., R..W., Carlson J.N., ìEffects
of Iboga Alkaloids on Morphine and Cocaine
Self-Administration in Rate: Relationship to
Tremorgenic effects and to effects on Dopamine Release
in the Nucleus Accumbens and Striataumî Brain
Research, 657: 14-22 (1994)
Glick, S.D., Maisonneauve, I.M., Kuehne, M.E.,
Bandaragem U.K. CNS Drug Review 5:27 (1999)
Lotsof, H.S., Rapid Method for Interrupting the
Narcotic Addiction Syndrome, US Patent #4,499,096
(1985)
Lotsof, H.S., Rapid Method for Interrupting the
Cocaine and Amphetamine Abuse Syndrome, US Patent
#4,587,243 (1986)
Lotsof, H.S., Rapid Method for Attenuating the Alcohol
Dependency Syndrome, US Patent #4,857,523 (1989)
Lotsof, H.S., Rapid Method for Interrupting or
Attenuating the Nicotine/Tobacco Dependency Syndrome
(1991)
Lotsof, H.S., Rapid Method for Interrupting the
Poly-Drug Dependency Syndrome, US Patent #5,124,994
(1992)
Luciano, D. ìObservations on Treatment with Ibogaineî
Am. J. on Addictions (1998)
:Luciano, D., Della Sera, E.A., Jethmal, E.G., Bull
MAPS 9:27 (2000)
Mash, D.C, Kovera, C.A., Pablo, J., Tyndale, R.,
Ervin, F.R., Kamlet, J.D., Hearn, W.L., ìIbogaine in
the treatment of Heroin Withdrawalî The Alkaloids, 56:
155-171 (2001)
Naik, G. ìArray of New Drugs Shows Promise in Fighting
Addictions. Wall Street Journal, B1, July 15, 2002
Ohearn, E., Molliver, M.E., Degeneration of Purkinje
cells in parasagittal zomes serebellara vermis after
treatment with Ibogaine of Harmaline. Neuroscience 55:
303-310 (1993)
Olney, J.W., Use of Ibogaine for Treating of
Neuropathic Pain, US Patent #5,925,634 (1999)
Parker, L.A., Siegal, Ss., Luxton, T., Learning and
Memory 3: 344 (1995)
Rezvani, A.H., Overstreet, D.H., Lee, Y.W.
ìAttenuation of Alcohol Intake by Ibogaine in Three
Strains of Alcohol-Preferring Ratsî Pharmacology,
Biochemistry and Behavior, 52: (2) 615-620 (1995)
Xu, Z. Chang Jr., L.W., Slikker, W., Ali, S.F.,
Rountree, R.L., and Scallet, A.C. ìDose Response Study
of Ibogaine Induced Neuropathology in the Rat
Cerebellumî Topical. Sci 57:95-1001 (2000)
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Drugs from vomit helped cause death: inquest
Date: March 5, 2003 at 7:30:45 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —–
From: Tim Meehan
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:05 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Drugs from vomit helped cause death: inquest
Aw man…drimking vomit…
—
http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=519181F4-6061-4741-9A59-B4D69D3D914B
Drugs from vomit helped cause death: inquest
Stephen Tipper
Saskatchewan News Network; Prince Albert Daily Herald
Tuesday, March 04, 2003
PRINCE ALBERT — Methadone ingested by Pine Grove Correctional Centre inmate
Sonia Faith Keepness by drinking the vomit of fellow inmates was a likely
contributor to her death, a coroner’s inquest heard Monday.
Nico Brits, the pathologist who conducted Keepness’s autopsy, testified
before a
six-member jury that the combination of methadone and Librium, a
tranquillizer
with sedative-type effects, likely proved fatal.
Keepness, 37, died Feb. 19, 2002, at Pine Grove. She was found dead on her
cell
bed. She was serving a sentence on drug charges.
Methadone and Librium, along with a few other drugs Brits doesn’t believe
played
a part in her death, were found in her system after death.
Pine Grove inmates Candace Dawn Ahenakew and Tanya Mae Cappo, Keepness’s
niece,
have admitted they went for their dose of methadone at the jail clinic, then
returned to their cells and vomited the liquid drug into a container for
Keepness.
They have since been sentenced for drug trafficking.
The methadone program is for inmates addicted to opiates, such as heroin and
dilaudid, but only if those inmates were already on the program prior to
entering the facility.
Another inmate, Redenah Faith Thomas, has pleaded guilty to trafficking
Librium
to Keepness.
The jury also heard from Staff Sgt. John Hareuther of the Prince Albert city
police, who said it was a common occurrence for inmates to receive their
dose
and then vomit it for other inmates to consume.
In return, the inmates received favours, said Hareuther.
Brits said Keepness was a “naive” user of methadone, and had been taken off
a
methadone program. In this case, a naive user refers to someone who has not
used
methadone in a while.
Members of the jury and coroner Hugh Harradence were told the drugs can stop
a
person from breathing. Otherwise, Brits said Keepness appeared to be in good
health.
A substance in her blood stream indicated Keepness had a one-time dose over
a
short period of time, said John Hudson, who is in charge of the toxicology
section at the RCMP’s forensic lab in Regina, where samples of Keepness’s
blood,
urine, eye fluid and liver were sent for analysis.
Hudson, who qualified his remarks by saying he was not aware of Keepness’s
drug
history, said methadone is likely the primary cause of death.
“If the person is a new user, that (methadone) could be the straight cause,”
he
said.
A new user, as well as one who had been off methadone for an extended period
of
time, would not have the same tolerance for the drug as someone who was on
methadone, he said.
In the early stages of methadone usage, it’s important to control the doses,
said Hudson. “If you’re not careful, it can accumulate in the body to toxic
levels.”
The inquest at Prince Albert Court of Queen’s Bench continues today, when
six to
10 witnesses are expected. It is scheduled to wrap up Thursday.
An inquest must be held whenever an inmate dies in custody.
Inquests are meant to determine when and where a death occurred and the
medical
cause of death. In addition, the coroner’s jury may make recommendations to
prevent similar deaths in the future.
—
“‘The United States made us do it’ cannot be a sufficient or
acceptable justification for the Government to intrude on a
fundamental right of Canadians.” — George Radwanski
<]=———————————————————————–=[
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com ]
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Global Sports Anti-Doping Plan Unanimously Approved
Date: March 5, 2003 at 6:29:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030305/ap_wo_en_sp/eu_spt_oly_drug_code_18
So, figures I, check the list for ibogaine which I
thought was banned as it is no doubt, unfair
advantage. No list, go to the World Anti-Doping agency
(wada-ama.org), no list, but finally dig up “THE LIST”
up at the official Olympics site (olympic.org) but it
contains the following text;
http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_542.pdf
“CAUTION: This is not an exhaustive list of prohibited
substances. Many substances that do not appear on this
list are considered prohibited under the term “and
related substances”. Athletes must ensure that any
medicine, supplement, over-the-counter preparation
or any other substance they use does not contain any
Prohibited Substance.”
What is a “related substance”? This term appears 10
times but is not defined in the document.
So, anyway you will be glad to know that IBOGAINE is
NOT on the list, well unless it is a “related
substance”. Don’t worry, they will figure it out after
they give you a medal, or maybe before.
Brett
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center – forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 4:50:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Found this online, was curious if it pertained to iboga at all
“Angel”
It’s been five months since you went away
Left without a word and nothing to say
When I was the one who gave you my heart and soul
But it wasn’t good enough for you, no
So I asked God
God send me an angel
From the heavens above
Send me an angel to heal my broken heart
From being in love
‘Cause all I do is cry
God send me an angel
To wipe the tears from my eyes
And I know it might sound crazy
But after all that I still love you
You wanna come back in my life
But now there is something I have to do
I have to tell the one that I once adored
That they can’t have my love no more
Cause my heart can’t take no more lies
And my eyes are all out of cries
God send me an angel
From the heavens above
Send me an angel to heal my broken heart
From being in love
‘Cause all I do is cry
God send me an angel
To wipe the tears from my eyes
Now you had me on my knees
Begging God please to send you back to me
I couldn’t eat, I couldn’t sleep
You made me feel like I could not breathe
Now all I wanted to do was to feel your touch
And give you all my love
But you took my love for granted
Want my lovin’ now
But you can’t have it
God
God send me an angel
From the heavens above
Send me an angel to heal my broken heart
From being in love
‘Cause all I do is cry
God send me an angel
To wipe the tears >from my eyes
Oh God, send me (God send me an angel)
An angel (wipe the tears from my eyes) Oh baby
Send me an angel from the heavens above
Send me an angel (God send me an angel)
From being in love (send me an angel)
Oh God, send me an angel
Send me an angel (send me an angel)
Ooohhhh..
—– Original Message —–
From: Randy Hencken
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Does anybody know who this is? Why are they here? Have they eaten iboga?
Does the Angel song relate to iboga? Amanda, who are you?
R
>From: “Amanda Perez” <amandaperez@virginrecords.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
>Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 23:29:51 -0800
>
>Let’s Get Amanda to the Top of MTV’s TRL!
>
>Vote for Amanda’s “Angel” video as your favorite video on-line at MTV.com.
>Watch
>the show every day this week at 3:30 PM ET/PT, 2:30 CT on MTV to see the
>contest
>results.
>
>Every “Angel” vote is important so go on-line and vote today!
>
>To vote go to: http://www.mtv.com/onair/trl/votevideo.jhtml
>
>
>——————–
>
>E-Mail sent using the Free Trial Version of WorldMerge, the fastest
>and easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. For more
>information visit http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg
>
>72277
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 4:47:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes YES YES!!! very important. Much more important than all this
crap about Iraq, medical marijuana, HIV, Hep c, Junkies needing Ibo,
Feds busting bong makers, living in the tyranny of the Bush
administration Etc. I am going to log on right away. This is very
important. MTV! MTV! MTV! who am I voting for? Devil?
Buy is it an Ibogaine story?
Dana/cnw
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 4:42:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Does anybody know who this is? Why are they here? Have they eaten iboga? Does the Angel song relate to iboga? Amanda, who are you?
R
From: “Amanda Perez” <amandaperez@virginrecords.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 23:29:51 -0800
Let’s Get Amanda to the Top of MTV’s TRL!
Vote for Amanda’s “Angel” video as your favorite video on-line at MTV.com. Watch
the show every day this week at 3:30 PM ET/PT, 2:30 CT on MTV to see the contest
results.
Every “Angel” vote is important so go on-line and vote today!
To vote go to: http://www.mtv.com/onair/trl/votevideo.jhtml
——————–
E-Mail sent using the Free Trial Version of WorldMerge, the fastest
and easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. For more
information visit http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg
72277
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 3:21:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes YES YES!!! very important. Much more important than all this crap about Iraq, medical marijuana, HIV, Hep c, Junkies needing Ibo, Feds busting bong makers, living in the tyranny of the Bush administration Etc. I am going to log on right away. This is very important. MTV! MTV! MTV! who am I voting for? Devil?
MTV : now recast as multi-dimensional tabernanthe visions :
“…..i saw a screen unfold in my mind,upon this screen,an infinity of
images twisted and unfolded before my very eyes – a dark entity slowly moved towards me and in a booming voice anounced itself : “VOTE FOR ME” it screamed from the depths of hyperspace…”VOTE FOR ME”…….
do not adjust your mind – this is simply reality malfunctioning…
paul.
_________________________________________________________________
It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk
From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 5, 2003 at 3:04:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sara,
Is it necessary to have taken a larger dose of Ibo before or would this possibly work for someone who has never taken Ibo?
Curious,
Sandra
—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:27:54 +0100
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Re: Hello Paul ,
Re:
Re: There is a way to treat a nicotine habit without an ibo. session
Re:
Re: It is possible to use this treatment without stopping your daily
Re: routines,
Re:
Re: Just by taking a very small dose everyday (0.05 hcl ) or (0.25
Re: extract)or(1.000 root bark)can help the cravings.
Re:
Re: It should change from one person another, it is possible to talk about
Re: it.
Re:
Re:
Re: Sara
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re: —–Original Message—–
Re: From: paul jackamo [mailto:pauljackamo@hotmail.com]
Re: Sent: maandag 3 maart 2003 21:46
Re: To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re: Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Re:
Re: >I smoked for ten years and I had my first ibogaine session last summer
Re: to
Re: >get off heroin and methadone. i relapsed on heroin and I am back on
Re: the
Re: >methadone, but I haven’t smoked since September when I had my iboga
Re: >session.
Re: >Christina
Re:
Re: This really illustrates the wide spectrum of effects ibogaine can induce
Re: :
Re:
Re: I kicked heroin/methadone/crack on my first ibo session but not
Re: nicotine.Relapsed on heroin a few months ago,did another treatment and
Re: kicked heroin again and havent touched methadone since my first ibo
Re: session.
Re: Im clean at the moment apart from a 20 year nicotine habit which is
Re: going to
Re: be dealt with hopefully with the help of another ibo session this month.
Re:
Re: its a funny old iboworld.
Re:
Re: paul.
Re:
Re: _________________________________________________________________
Re: Stay in touch with absent friends – get MSN Messenger
Re: http://messenger.msn.co.uk
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
Re:
—
_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net
Powered by Outblaze
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 2:44:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes YES YES!!! very important. Much more important than all this crap about Iraq, medical marijuana, HIV, Hep c, Junkies needing Ibo, Feds busting bong makers, living in the tyranny of the Bush administration Etc. I am going to log on right away. This is very important. MTV! MTV! MTV! who am I voting for? Devil?
From: “Amanda Perez” <amandaperez@virginrecords.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 23:29:51 -0800
Let’s Get Amanda to the Top of MTV’s TRL!
Vote for Amanda’s “Angel” video as your favorite video on-line at MTV.com. Watch
the show every day this week at 3:30 PM ET/PT, 2:30 CT on MTV to see the contest
results.
Every “Angel” vote is important so go on-line and vote today!
To vote go to: http://www.mtv.com/onair/trl/votevideo.jhtml
——————–
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72277
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From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 1:48:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
b l a s p h e m y
Let’s Get Amanda to the Top of MTV’s TRL!
Vote for Amanda’s “Angel” video as your favorite video on-line at
MTV.com. Watch the show every day this week at 3:30 PM ET/PT, 2:30 CT
on MTV to see the contest results.
Every “Angel” vote is important so go on-line and vote today!
To vote go to: http://www.mtv.com/onair/trl/votevideo.jhtml
——————–
E-Mail sent using the Free Trial Version of WorldMerge, the fastest and
easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. For more
information visit http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg
72277
From: “Amanda Perez” <amandaperez@virginrecords.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] I’m on MTV now!
Date: March 5, 2003 at 2:29:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Let’s Get Amanda to the Top of MTV’s TRL!
Vote for Amanda’s “Angel” video as your favorite video on-line at MTV.com. Watch
the show every day this week at 3:30 PM ET/PT, 2:30 CT on MTV to see the contest
results.
Every “Angel” vote is important so go on-line and vote today!
To vote go to: http://www.mtv.com/onair/trl/votevideo.jhtml
——————–
E-Mail sent using the Free Trial Version of WorldMerge, the fastest
and easiest way to send personalized e-mail messages. For more
information visit http://www.coloradosoft.com/worldmrg
72277
From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 5, 2003 at 6:27:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello Paul ,
There is a way to treat a nicotine habit without an ibo. session
It is possible to use this treatment without stopping your daily
routines,
Just by taking a very small dose everyday (0.05 hcl ) or (0.25
extract)or(1.000 root bark)can help the cravings.
It should change from one person another, it is possible to talk about
it.
Sara
—–Original Message—–
From: paul jackamo [mailto:pauljackamo@hotmail.com]
Sent: maandag 3 maart 2003 21:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
I smoked for ten years and I had my first ibogaine session last summer
to
get off heroin and methadone. i relapsed on heroin and I am back on
the
methadone, but I haven’t smoked since September when I had my iboga
session.
Christina
This really illustrates the wide spectrum of effects ibogaine can induce
:
I kicked heroin/methadone/crack on my first ibo session but not
nicotine.Relapsed on heroin a few months ago,did another treatment and
kicked heroin again and havent touched methadone since my first ibo
session.
Im clean at the moment apart from a 20 year nicotine habit which is
going to
be dealt with hopefully with the help of another ibo session this month.
its a funny old iboworld.
paul.
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends – get MSN Messenger
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From: jon ludlam <seraphina@compuserve.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] The Drug War’s Cooked Books
Date: March 4, 2003 at 4:21:15 PM EST
To: “INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The Drug War’s Cooked Books
www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1153
by Paul Armentano
[Posted March 4, 2003]
Numbers never lie. Or do they? With government, it’s simply a matter of
who’s keeping the books. Take America’s so-called war on drugs, for
instance. Last year, Congress earmarked nearly $19 billionnearly twice
what
it spent on military operations in Afghanistanto enforce U.S. drug laws.
This year’s totals, however, are remarkably different. According to the
White House’s 2003 “National Drug Control Strategy,” released in February,
the Bush Administration will now only spend some $11.2 billion fighting
drugs!
How can this be? Is some part of government actually shrinking? On closer
inspection, it’s clear that this year’s supposed belt-tightening is only
illusory. Thanks to new Enron-styled accounting procedures initiated by the
White House, America’s drug war costs a lot less than it used toat least
on
paper.
In a little publicized announcement last year, officials from the White
House Office of National Drug Control Policy (a.k.a. the Drug Czar’s
office)
revealed that they had developed a “new methodology” for reporting the
federal drug budgetwhich had grown from less than $2 billion annually in
1982 to $18.8 billion last year. Under this scheme, only funding for
agencies involved in so-called “primary” drug war activities is now
tabulated in the national anti-drug budget. As a result, more than
two-thirds of the agencies included in past years’ budgets are
conspicuously
missing from this year’s financial totals!
By far the largest and most startling financial manipulations are within
the
Department of Justice (DOJ), which reported a reduction of more than $5.5
billion dollars in drug-war related expenses between 2002 and 2003.
Remarkably, the majority of costs removed are those associated with the
incarceration and care of federal drug prisoners!
How so? “Based on the criterion that they are associated with the secondary
consequences of the government’s primary drug law enforcement and
investigation activities,” such expenses will no longer be tabulated in the
federal drug budget, the ONDCP explained.
Other DOJ departments and activities related to drug law enforcement,
investigation and prosecution are also deceptively missing from this year’s
tally. For example, annual funding for INTERPOL, the U.S. Marshals Service,
the U.S. Attorney’s office, the federal “asset forfeiture fund,” and
community policing are noticeably absent.
Millions of dollars in annual funding for additional agencies previously
tabulated in the national drug war budget, such as the Department of
Education, have been reduced without explanation, while othersincluding
the
Department of Transportation ($594 million in 2002), Department of Interior
($39 million in 2002), and the Department of Agriculture ($29 million)have
been expunged from the books all together.
To make matters even more confusing, the 2003 “National Drug Control
Strategy” makes virtually no reference to the White House’s new accounting
procedures, and manipulates past years’ budgets to retroactively reflect
the
Feds’ latest “fuzzy math”. As a result, the White House is now claiming
that
America’s war on drugs has never cost more than $11 billion per year, even
though the office itself previously recorded surpassing that spending
milestone in 1991! It’s the sort of deception that would make George
Orwell
cringe.
If you’re searching for the motivation behind the Drug Czar’s deceptive
accounting, look no further than the polls. In recent years, nationwide
surveys have consistently shown that the majority of Americans believe the
drug war’s current “do drugs, do time” approach to be ineffective, fiscally
costly, and doomed to fail.
When given the alternative, nearly seven out of ten Americans say they
support treatment for convicted drug users rather than incarceration.
Nevertheless, despite the public’s sentiment, the percentage of federal
dollars dedicated to drug treatment and education programs has consistently
been minuscule compared to those earmarked for enforcement and
interdiction.
Until now.
At the same time the White House is concealing billions in drug war related
prison and interdiction costs. Investigations of this year’s budget by the
think-tanks Common Sense for Drug Policy and the Drug Policy Alliance
reveal
that the Drug Czar’s office is inflating their expenditures on drug
treatment by including hundreds of millions of dollars in alcohol treatment
spending, which by law is specifically excluded from the ONDCP’s scope of
activities.
As a result, the ONDCP claims that this year’s budget allots nearly equal
amounts on drug treatment as it does drug enforcementup dramatically from
past years’ ratios which favored enforcement nearly two to onedespite
making no substantive spending changes.
Ultimately, the goal of all this smoke and mirrors is to create the
perception of a kinder, gentler, and less expensive drug warqualities
favored by the American public but seldom (if ever) delivered by federal
drug policy. Of course, beneath the clouds it’s still business as usual;
the
only question is: Who’s going to report the Feds to the SEC?
—————————————————————————
–
—-
Paul Armentano is a senior policy analyst for The NORML Foundation in
Washington, DC, a think-tank which lobbies for the liberalization of
marijuana laws. Send him MAIL.
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From: Luke Vicens <wvicens@trincoll.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] supersensitization
Date: March 4, 2003 at 12:40:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
There are some published papers that indicate ibogaine (or maybe it
was 18-MC, I forget which they used,) can desensitize supersensitized
dopamine neurons, essentially resetting them to their state before
drug dependence developed. The papers suggested this mechanism may in
part explain the attenuation of drug craving and or effect after
ibogiane (or 18-mc) treatment.
Luke
LINK FOUND IN BRAIN RESPONSE TO ADDICTIVE DRUGS, STRESS
Drug addicts may prefer some drugs over others, but their brains all have
something in common. Whether it’s uppers or downers, addictive drugs tweak
the same addiction-related neurons, causing them to become more sensitive,
say researchers at the medical center.
“What we have identified is a single change caused by drugs of abuse with
different molecular mechanisms,” said Robert Malenka, MD, PhD, the Nancy
Friend Pritzker Professor in psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the
School of Medicine. Malenka is the senior author of a paper in the Feb. 20
issue of the journal Neuron which describes the molecular changes that
occur as a result of taking addictive drugs.
When people take addictive drugs, neurons in a region of the brain called
the ventral tegmental area (VTA) transiently ramp up production of
dopamine, a chemical that acts as a neurotransmitter. The new research
shows that the drugs also increase the sensitivity of neurons in the VTA.
Researchers suspect it’s the release of dopamine in addition to this
enhanced sensitivity that leads to addiction.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n311.a04.html
——————————
—
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] supersensitization
Date: March 4, 2003 at 11:42:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Pubdate: Wed, 26 Feb 2003
Source: Stanford Report (CA Edu)
Copyright: 2003 Stanford Report
Contact: stanford.report@forsythe.stanford.edu
Website: http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/report/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/1038
Author: AMY ADAMS
LINK FOUND IN BRAIN RESPONSE TO ADDICTIVE DRUGS, STRESS
Drug addicts may prefer some drugs over others, but their brains all have
something in common. Whether it’s uppers or downers, addictive drugs tweak
the same addiction-related neurons, causing them to become more sensitive,
say researchers at the medical center.
“What we have identified is a single change caused by drugs of abuse with
different molecular mechanisms,” said Robert Malenka, MD, PhD, the Nancy
Friend Pritzker Professor in psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the
School of Medicine. Malenka is the senior author of a paper in the Feb. 20
issue of the journal Neuron which describes the molecular changes that
occur as a result of taking addictive drugs.
When people take addictive drugs, neurons in a region of the brain called
the ventral tegmental area (VTA) transiently ramp up production of
dopamine, a chemical that acts as a neurotransmitter. The new research
shows that the drugs also increase the sensitivity of neurons in the VTA.
Researchers suspect it’s the release of dopamine in addition to this
enhanced sensitivity that leads to addiction.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n311.a04.html
——————————
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] bong laden’s evil plans
Date: March 3, 2003 at 3:47:25 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.drugwar.com/cavanaughymbl.shtm
Osama Yo Mama Bong Laden.
And the coming of the Great Green Peril
By
Jay R. Cavanaugh, PhD
Posted DrugWar.com
March 3, 2003
The nation waits pensively for the next al Qaida attack. Our special
anti-terror agents sweep the globe killing and capturing an enemy bent on
the destruction of America and the West. Will a “dirty” bomb suddenly go off
in the Mall of America? Will anthrax turn up in your Wheaties?
Or have we missed the obvious? Even while we gloat over the capture of the
9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the big boss, Osama Bong Laden,
continues to elude us. His plan is simple and unbelievably evil. Osama is
going to smoke America under the table.
snip-
Read Breaking News at above URL
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 3, 2003 at 3:45:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I smoked for ten years and I had my first ibogaine session last summer to get off heroin and methadone. i relapsed on heroin and I am back on the methadone, but I haven’t smoked since September when I had my iboga session.
Christina
This really illustrates the wide spectrum of effects ibogaine can induce :
I kicked heroin/methadone/crack on my first ibo session but not nicotine.Relapsed on heroin a few months ago,did another treatment and kicked heroin again and havent touched methadone since my first ibo session. Im clean at the moment apart from a 20 year nicotine habit which is going to be dealt with hopefully with the help of another ibo session this month.
its a funny old iboworld.
paul.
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends – get MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] DEA to double prescribing fee
Date: March 3, 2003 at 2:43:27 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Does anyone else find this as disturbing as do I?
http://www.ama-assn.org/sci-pubs/amnews/pick_03/prl10310.htm
DEA to double prescribing fee
Doctors feel taxed by the Drug Enforcement Administration’s proposal to
raise fees to $131.
By Andis Robeznieks, AMNews staff. March 10, 2003. Additional information
Melvyn L. Sterling, MD, an internist in Orange, Calif., said the Federal
Drug Enforcement Administration’s move to raise its annual registration fee
past the $100 mark is a bitter pill to swallow.
“It’s not just the fee,” he said. “It’s the time and the bother and the
accountant’s time to list all these fees and pay them.”
In addition to the DEA’s requested fee hike, from $70 to $131, Dr. Sterling
said he has to pay ever-increasing fees and taxes to state, county and city
governments, including a fee for “generating potentially infectious waste”
even though he already pays for collecting that waste.
“I will not continually absorb these burdens, I’ll have to pass it on to my
patients,” Dr. Sterling said. “Since I can’t pass it on to Medicare
patients, I’ll take fewer Medicare patients.”
If the DEA increase is approved, nearly 950,000 physicians will be hit
within the next three to six months. Most of them face financial issues
similar to Dr. Sterling’s. They are frustrated by increasing fees and
charges, low Medicare reimbursements, rising liability rates and contractual
locks on the fees they can charge managed care patients. Even
nickel-and-dime fees add up and, some say, often amount to unfair taxation.
snip-
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Stuart
Date: March 3, 2003 at 1:45:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
well, speakin’ from personal experience, it “wasn’t” that much different
than without the pre-nitrous, except I’m high on nitrous then not then
nicotined and high on pot, often with the added pleasure, errr…I mean,
pain buzz from whatever tooth surgery I’ve been through to warrent someone,
my dentist actually, giving me large quanities of nitrous.
I don’t personally eat the ice cream until evening, long after the
nitrous session.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Stuart
On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Vector Vector wrote:
What happens if you do nitrous and then smoke cigarettes and a bowl
afterwards? If anyone in the world knows the answer to that, they’re on
this list.
ummm. well, you get really fucking bombed. then you eat a lot of ice
cream.
==========================================================================
| |
| League of Surrealist Discord – www.lsdrecords.com |
| |
| ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds… |
————————————————————————–
From: “Christina Kester” <poppy_1974@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 3, 2003 at 12:55:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Oh. so you are back at UNC?
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:53:40 -0500
i don’t get this, but anyone who has been to europe or canada would neveeeer say that ameriKKKa (and this is an accurate character spelling; i am one of the few upper middle class whites in my clinic; addiction doesn’t discriminate but society points certain people to it) who has been chained to methadone for years, unable to even get take homes because i smoke pot, meanwhile, earl the resneck drinks a case of bud nightly, beats his wife, but keeps his job as a plumber and gets 16 take homes.I pull down a 4.0 in collge at UNC Chapel Hill, and I still have to stand in line for 2 hours in the am…..But how can I be well withiout being violently, teriibly ill in a matter of days? Especially without pot to calm my already naturally nauseous stomach? HOW DOES IT WORK? I want an answer from a user and a doctor.
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From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: urgent request for much needed info
Date: March 3, 2003 at 12:53:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Stuart,
It’s incredible how many times you’ve got my E-mail, but I haven’t received any E-mails from you 😉
If you want my URL, it’s
http://www.ustanova-iboga.si/
But it won’t help you much unless you are one of those 2 millions who speak my language…
Marko
At 18:42 3.3.2003, you wrote:
>===== Original Message From ibogaine@mindvox.com =====
>Stuart,
>
>Sorry, I don’t have urls for Nick Sandberg or
>Marco Resinov.
I could be completley making this up, but i think nick sandberg runs
www.ibogaine.co.uk
From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: urgent request for much needed info
Date: March 3, 2003 at 12:42:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
===== Original Message From ibogaine@mindvox.com =====
Stuart,
Sorry, I don’t have urls for Nick Sandberg or
Marco Resinov.
I could be completley making this up, but i think nick sandberg runs
www.ibogaine.co.uk
From: “Christina Kester” <poppy_1974@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 3, 2003 at 12:42:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I smoked for ten years and I had my first ibogaine session last summer to get off heroin and methadone. i relapsed on heroin and I am back on the methadone, but I haven’t smoked since September when I had my iboga session.
Christina
From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:22:27 -0800
http://maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12223hal.html
A laughing matter…
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:44:14 -0500
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
>
> > Smoking may be annoying, but it doesn’t really qualify as self-medicating.
> >
>
> I’m not sure about that though; I think a lot of people smoke to
> self-medicate depression or other mood problems..
>
>
>
>
>
—
_______________________________________________
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From: RickMAPS@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: urgent request for much needed info
Date: March 3, 2003 at 2:37:24 AM EST
To: backupatb@webtv.net, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, kra1@nyu.edu, lauriemischley@attbi.com, carl_anderson@hms.harvard.edu, aiviarose@netscape.net, cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu, clayhoney@hotmail.com, barlow@eff.org, ekwaus@yahoo.com, kid_lucky@hotmail.com, Nmitsogo@aol.com, Suziknkbell@aol.com, kurt@opprect.org, Carahuasca@aol.com, beach120St@yahoo.com, mark@mwwilson.com, Mirrorlink@aol.com, Ismokedmt@aol.com, ScottLT@aol.com, hydrocetacean@hotmail.com, lizrymland@hotmail.com, Dka@well.com, PGBenjamin@aol.com, Brian_Vastag@ama-assn.org, ronsala@uuma.org, erhardt23@mindspring.com, NYGBAILEY@aol.com, kquinet@cotc.edu, STUARTTROY@webtv.net, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, warcrycinema@yahoo.com, jstatzer@qtm.net, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com, rlake@mapinc.org, DDanforbes@aol.com, ibogalab@hotmail.com, pdr@echonyc.com, Stews@radiks.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, m.pilkington@virgin.net, ejahn@barnard.edu, NeedelR@aol.com, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Stuart,
Sorry, I don’t have urls for Nick Sandberg or
Marco Resinov.
Rick
From: Mohammed Sajid <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: urgent request for much needed info
Date: March 3, 2003 at 5:11:14 AM EST
To: RickMAPS@aol.com, backupatb@webtv.net, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, kra1@nyu.edu, lauriemischley@attbi.com, carl_anderson@hms.harvard.edu, aiviarose@netscape.net, cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu, clayhoney@hotmail.com, barlow@eff.org, ekwaus@yahoo.com, kid_lucky@hotmail.com, Nmitsogo@aol.com, Suziknkbell@aol.com, kurt@opprect.org, Carahuasca@aol.com, beach120St@yahoo.com, mark@mwwilson.com, Mirrorlink@aol.com, Ismokedmt@aol.com, ScottLT@aol.com, hydrocetacean@hotmail.com, lizrymland@hotmail.com, Dka@well.com, PGBenjamin@aol.com, Brian_Vastag@ama-assn.org, ronsala@uuma.org, erhardt23@mindspring.com, NYGBAILEY@aol.com, kquinet@cotc.edu, STUARTTROY@webtv.net, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, warcrycinema@yahoo.com, jstatzer@qtm.net, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com, rlake@mapinc.org, DDanforbes@aol.com, ibogalab@hotmail.com, pdr@echonyc.com, Stews@radiks.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, m.pilkington@virgin.net, ejahn@barnard.edu, NeedelR@aol.com, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sandberg’s site is http://www.ibogaine.co.uk. If
you’re after his personal home page with the dazzling
exposition of the esoteric symbolism of Starbucks,
that I cannot help you with.
Cheers,
Mohammed Sajid
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 3, 2003 at 12:27:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
human spirit, I always
work it back up to two
packs a day; but hafta start with like half a
cigarette and use menthols
— this is okay, fiberglass in your lungs provides a
healthy protective
coating.
What I got during some of the “darkness” (during ibo)
was a message, “stop doing things today that you will
regret tomorrow” – what a non-addict way of thinking.
Of course, as with anything else, your mileage may
vary. I know people
I will add to that; It seems to depend on how ready
you are (to stay the course) largely – and that
applies to any ibo treated addiction , or just
addiction treatment in general. I up and quit, period,
no discussion, no wiggle room, no “just one”, no
exceptions – there was zero percent chance of failure
and 100% chance of success. Now without a load of
nor-ibo in me, just after a tx (booster) no doubt it
wouldn’t have been so easy or even doable (at that
moment).
who are lighting up a few hours INTO ibogaine, and
continue to smoke
intermittently throughout their experience.
As with anything ibo you can get a different reaction
on a different day (same person). I have done all of
the above you mentioned, smoke through it or not to
not smoking for a few weeks after – and in a great
triumph of human spirit… I started again. They do
taste YUCK after ibo, not that that stopped me.
You don’t have any cravings afterwards, it’s more of
a psychological thing
and a question of what to do with yourself.
Well, kind of (no cravings). For the most part they
were very mild. Every so often I WAS A SMOKER WITHOUT
A CIG HANGING FROM MY LIPS, it grabbed me by the
throat and the balls at once… . Realization set in
(I am a non-smoker), then deep breath later, maybe
some nicorette and I was fine.
Except… And LISTEN EVERYONE cause this is how it
works, sometimes… and this applies to any addiction.
Just before it finally broke, before I stopped the
nicorette, suddenly I got cravings, some pretty bad
ones, not this here and there cravings, the nagging
kind that doesn’t stop. However smoking was NOT AN
OPTION, it was not going to happen, period, no
discussion, no chance and no thinking about it (like
thinking about not getting high by staring at your
veins). This is a VERY COMMON THEME in addiction, it
comes and does this one-last-chance try to grab you
back and often succeeds! It comes to this; Just before
“IT” gets better, “IT” often gets worse (harder), it
did just that with drugs and me a number of times. It
helps to know this, take it as part of the “process”,
part of the game, be ready if it happens (maybe some
Rescue Remedy around, go smoke something else, change
the subject…)
So (as with other addictions) “IT” (smoking in this
case) got better and better – or if you like “I” got
better and better. Then just (as if in a panic – like
the addiction is an entity) before it loses its grip,
it puts all its last effort into making you feel as
bad as it can – to relapse.
but it doesn’t really
qualify as self-medicating.
I disagree. Last I checked nicotine was one of the
most highly addictive drugs and it certainly feels
like suddenly NOT self-medicating when one stops.
Smoking is a coping skill, just like drugs
(self-medicating) which is why most people should NOT
try to stop smoking at the same time they quit cigs.
Ibo can change “rules” a bit, it is a much more
“doable” thing/or more doable earlier in sobriety than
it would normally be.
Personally, being real, I just don’t give a shit. I
never had any
intention of quitting cigarettes. I know I *should*
but that’s nowhere
near the stage of, “I’m gonna cut it loose.”
That is the story of my life. I did “SHIT” till I
couldn’t do “SHIT” any longer. Over time “SHIT”
varied, from kind of shit (stimulating self
distructive behavior) to another so I moved on to
another, looking for good “SHIT” cause the old “SHIT”
didn’t work or got to me. Freedom for me was giving
up doing that and getting rid of the bad shit. Of
course giving up any of it before I was ready was
futile, not a discussion, not going to happen and if
you asked or I “tried”, I would fail and re-doubled my
efforts and do more of it. Kind of like people going
on “diets”, they feel like they are lacking, missing
something… where normal folks just eat right and
people don’t live IN recovery, they just live right
(for discriptive purposes only). I DO NOT MISS NOT
SMOKING ONE BIT. I don’t stink, don’t drop a lit cig
head in my lap while driving or somewhere else in the
car when I threw them out and missed, I don’t miss
getting burns in clothes or ashes in my eyes. I don’t
miss having to go to the store cause I am out of em
(and needed a fix…) and I don’t miss the caughing in
the morning or the bad taste in my mouth – though FYI
I am caughing up all kinds of black, brown, gray,
stringy, goopy, frothy, custard like shit (it
alternates and comes in various combinations) that
started 4-5 months after I stopped and still going 3
months later. So, yeah, well, ha ha, you want to smoke
have at it but the chances of you dying from smoking
is HUGELY greater than any threat to yourself from
drug addiction or even drinking (or likely the next
several 100 things combined). Smoking is real bad shit
and I didn’t quit drugs only to die from some bullshit
not fun habit or lug around an oxygen bottle…
So, if you come over tonight how is “smoked salmon”?
(gotta get my dose of carcinogens one way or the
other, ha ha)
Brett
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From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Stuart
Date: March 2, 2003 at 10:42:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Vector Vector wrote:
What happens if you do nitrous and then smoke cigarettes and a bowl
afterwards? If anyone in the world knows the answer to that, they’re on
this list.
ummm. well, you get really fucking bombed. then you eat a lot of ice
cream.
==========================================================================
| |
| League of Surrealist Discord – www.lsdrecords.com |
| |
| ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds… |
————————————————————————–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 2, 2003 at 10:31:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Sandra k wrote:
http://maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12223hal.html
A laughing matter…
Hmm….time to get some redi-whip…. =)
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
Date: March 2, 2003 at 9:59:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— Sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Am I going to listen to my heart or to my head?
Sara
Don’t ever let the monkey in the head get louder than the music in the heart.
__________________________________________________
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From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Stuart
Date: March 2, 2003 at 9:25:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What happens if you do nitrous and then smoke cigarettes and a bowl
afterwards? If anyone in the world knows the answer to that, they’re on
this list.
.:vector:.
the dopamine will just keep flowing accompanied by tiny ammounts of norharman and a melatonin spike if by bowl,yr mean cannabis – if yr mean freebase then u will crash and burn…….eventually 😉
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Stuart
Date: March 2, 2003 at 8:43:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Is this is the same stuart who fly by twice and cross posted to 45
lists and people? I’ve lost track. without telling you what to do, i’m
going to tell you what to do patrick, host el8. deleted asked that on
the other list too. it’s the only mag still coming out that isn’t
trash. by the time phrack publishes nothing in it works anymore.
There are days when I read this and the title “Last Exit For The Lost”
is so accurate that I LMAO. This is one of those days.
What happens if you do nitrous and then smoke cigarettes and a bowl
afterwards? If anyone in the world knows the answer to that, they’re on
this list.
.:vector:.
— jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
Stuart, I like you. You’re not like the other people, here, at the
trailer
park. I mean don’t get me wrong, they’re good people and fine
americans, but
they’re content to sit back, drink a couple of cool coors 16 ouncers,
maybe
watch a little mork and mindy on channel 57….they’re good, fine
people,
stuart….BUT THEY DON’T KNOW…WHAT THE QUEERS….ARE DOING TO OUR
SOIL#@!!@!
__________________________________________________
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From: z4k@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] come on come on wake up answer answer answer
Date: March 2, 2003 at 8:07:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, digital@phantom.com, digital@mindvox.com, patrick@phantom.com, patrick@mindvox.com, root@phantom.com, root@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
dear mr. lord digital answer your mail one of these years. excuse me to all the drug freaks for this interupt.
pr0j3kt mayh3m is closing the next issue, what names do we cred for the rebasing and anti forensics paper
can we put the project on mindvox or 9mm.com or untraceable.net, our mirror is throwing us off.
open pops on @phantom.com and @wiretap.com
add me to your white filter dog, you don’t even see the mail. come on already.
sl8z
z4k
http://fuckup.org/~awnex/
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Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
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YJyX1niB09LCGJEbgh24LdYAoJWVULwxaf+lEykTW6xDEjOzM52k
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From: backupatb@webtv.net (Stuart Troy)
Subject: [ibogaine] urgent request for much needed info
Date: March 2, 2003 at 8:06:07 PM EST
To: daniel@breakingopenthehead.com (Daniel Pinchbeck), RickMAPS@aol.com, kra1@nyu.edu (Kenneth Alper), lauriemischley@attbi.com (Laurie Mischley), carl_anderson@hms.harvard.edu, aiviarose@netscape.net, cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu, clayhoney@hotmail.com, barlow@eff.org, ekwaus@yahoo.com, kid_lucky@hotmail.com, Nmitsogo@aol.com, Suziknkbell@aol.com, kurt@opprect.org, carahuasca@aol.com, beach120St@yahoo.com, mark@mwwilson.com, mirrorlink@aol.com, ismokedmt@aol.com, scottlt@aol.com, hydrocetacean@hotmail.com, lizrymland@hotmail.com, Dka@well.com, pgBenjamin@aol.com, Brian_Vastag@ama-assn.org (Brian Vastag), ronsala@uuma.org (Ron Sala), erhardt23@mindspring.com (The Rev. Richard Erhardt), NYGBailey@aol.com (The Rev. Gordon Clay Bailey), kquinet@cotc.edu (Quinet, Kim), STUARTTROY@webtv.net (Stuart Troy), dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, warcrycinema@yahoo.com (warcry@indymedia.org), jstatzer@qtm.net (Jay Statzer), ptpeet@nyc.rr.com (preston peet), rlake@mapinc.org (Richard Lake), DDanforbes@aol.com, ibogalab@hotmail.com, pdr@echonyc.com (Paul DeRienzo), Stews@radiks.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, m.pilkington@virgin.net, ejahn@barnard.edu (Edward Jahn), NeedelR@aol.com, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It was suggested that one of you should be able to forward much needed
urls for both/either
Nick Sandberg
Marco Resinov
Thanking you in advance for this meritoriuos consideration specifically
and in general for your efforts in the promotion of Ibogaine as a
theraputic modality
Stuart Troy
From: STUARTTROY@webtv.net (Stuart Troy)
Subject: [ibogaine] help us please
Date: March 2, 2003 at 7:08:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It was suggested you could provide us with much needed urls for
both/either
Marco resinovik
Nick sandberg
Thanks and blessings for the work you’re doing
Stuart Troy
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 2, 2003 at 5:29:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL,
Except that when I leave my dentist’s office after a lot longer period
of gassing at really high doses, the first thing I do is light a cigarette
once hitting the street. Geuss that pesky will does come into play, as with
all “treatments” so far as I can tell.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Sandra k
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
http://maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12223hal.html
A laughing matter…
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:44:14 -0500
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
Smoking may be annoying, but it doesn’t really qualify as
self-medicating.
I’m not sure about that though; I think a lot of people smoke to
self-medicate depression or other mood problems..
—
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From: “Sandra k” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 2, 2003 at 5:22:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12223hal.html
A laughing matter…
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:44:14 -0500
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
Smoking may be annoying, but it doesn’t really qualify as self-medicating.
I’m not sure about that though; I think a lot of people smoke to
self-medicate depression or other mood problems..
—
_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net
Powered by Outblaze
From: “catherine murphy” <virginia1etc@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine and nicotine
Date: March 2, 2003 at 9:13:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
after being clean for 9 months and seriously giving thought to stopping smoking after 28 years of two pack (minimum) a day, i quit and have now 18 months of clean time(after 15 attempts in as many years and as many detoxes/rehabs..it was no that hard and i used the patch for 9 days anf then took oit off as it made me feel speedy.for me ibogaine was a catalyst that helped me.. i now have not smoked in 9 months..
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From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 2, 2003 at 12:57:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003 Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
i don’t get this, but anyone who has been to europe or canada would neveeeer say that ameriKKKa (and this is an accurate character spelling; i am one of the few upper middle class whites in my clinic; addiction doesn’t discriminate but society points certain people to it) who has been chained to methadone for years, unable to even get take homes because i smoke pot, meanwhile, earl the resneck drinks a case of bud nightly, beats his wife, but keeps his job as a plumber and gets 16 take homes.I pull down a 4.0 in collge at UNC Chapel Hill, and I still have to stand in line for 2 hours in the am…..But how can I be well withiout being violently, teriibly ill in a matter of days? Especially without pot to calm my already naturally nauseous stomach? HOW DOES IT WORK? I want an answer from a user and a doctor.
there’s a lot of good information about ibogaine on the web, from trip
reports to scientific research. check out some of these sites:
www.ibogaine.org
www.ibogaine.co.uk
www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html
www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine.shtml
www.ibogaine-research.org
www.ibeginagain.org
www.healingvisions.com
ibogaine.lycaeum.org
www.ibogaine-therapy.net
userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.pdf (this is my paper on ibogaine =)
hope this helps
==========================================================================
| |
| League of Surrealist Discord – www.lsdrecords.com |
| |
| ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds… |
————————————————————————–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 2, 2003 at 12:44:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
Smoking may be annoying, but it doesn’t really qualify as self-medicating.
I’m not sure about that though; I think a lot of people smoke to
self-medicate depression or other mood problems..
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 2, 2003 at 12:41:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 07:01:49PM -0500], [Jon Freedlander] wrote:
| On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, paul jackamo wrote:
|
| > Dear all
| >
| > Has anyone had any experience with using ibogaine specifically for nicotine
| > dependency ?
| > I’ve taken 2 large doses of hcl in the last year for heroin/methadone
| > but fucked up with the nicotine.
| > Im wondering whether taking a daily dose of hcl in the 30-40mg range would
| > help more than doing another large ammount of hcl all at once.
| > Im sat here looking at the hcl and just dont feel up to a full blown
| > experience in present time….
|
|
|
| If you find anything out about ibogaine for nicotine, please let me know.
| Thankfully i kicked heroin and coke a few years ago; but i still haven’t
| been able to stop smoking….
I think we’ve had variants of this conversation go by at least 5 times…
I’m gonna set up sum kinda FAQ which contains the most commonly asked
questions and answers on here.
eheheh…sorry patrick. i didn’t have a very good memory to start out
with, and between the smorgasborg of drugs i’ve done and the ECT i had
when i was 19, it hasn’t improved much… =)
but thanx very much for the info (again..eheh)
so then, I have a question for Marc Emery. Would the Iboga Therapy House
be willing to treat someone for a nicotine addiction? I live in the US, so
I can’t (i don’t think) get ibogaine here; but i could probably get to
Vancouver at some point, and i’ve always wanted to see BC anyway =)
From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
Date: March 2, 2003 at 7:58:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Am I going to listen to my heart or to my head?
Sara
—–Original Message—– From: A. Moore [mailto:27andy@msn.com] Sent: zondag 2 maart 2003 2:43 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
What? No Mozart?
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:31 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
another response to a recent thread about Mark and PK and a few folks I’ve never even seen here before regarding music during treatment… Music was an entirely fabulous experience for me in treatment/experiment #2 5 years ago. My guide put on a wonderful variety of music, from piano conciertos to off the wall recordings from the DR. Demento show to the Gyuto Monks, etc etc. It was highly cool and synchronized beautifully with the launch/visions/retrospection/re-entry/touchdown/decompression/reintegration (did i miss anything?) phases I experienced. That’s how it was for ME. POST IBOGAINE: I’ve said it before and here it is again, I had to change a lot of things and the music I listened to was one -for a while-. (Bowing head in shame, my name is ____ and I’m… a… recovering… Dead Head… its true, its all true, but I was led into it by peers, didn’t really have a choice, was abused as a child, picked on at school, had crooked teeth and was forced to wear braces… BUT THE DRUGS WERE SO FUCKING GOOD!) and I listen to live Dead now and often wonder… what the hell was I thinking??? not to say that the people and the places and the trips weren’t entirely enriching and certainly more exciting than keg parties at the end of a dirt road in Nowhereville, USA. in all siriusness, I did change my musical library, I shelved all the Miles and Thelonious Monk, Jerry Garcia, Pink Floyd, et al for some fresh listenables, to match the fresh headspace that the Ibo catapulted me into. thats what worked for me, but it was something i decided, no one told me that I should do this, it just made sense at the time. and I discovered the wonderful sounds of Thievery Corp, K&D, Plastik Man, Aphex Twin and a whole host of beats, sounds & grooves that became a part of my post-ibo/human experience. regarding Relapse & Brainwashing, great topics but I decided not to go there. So carry on, rant and rave, debate and decide, love and learn, groove and grind; and beware: They are watching. while we eat, sleep, shit and work. Of course this is nothing new and just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean they are not out to get you. velkomen en da 4th reich. Heil Bush. Heil Rumsfeld. Heil Powell. Heil Cheney. Heil Chevron. Heil Lockheed Martin. Heil da god-almighty dollar. www.truthout.org __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center – forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 1, 2003 at 10:58:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Paul,
Has anyone had any experience with using ibogaine
specifically for nicotine
dependency ?
Yes but I didn’t try, I mean I took the ibo as a
booster and specifically left it blank (no reason), no
intent to stop smoking or anything else, no ISSUES and
there really wasn’t much to come up – cept the smoking
that had been one of the common themes during trips –
like I was being TOLD to stop or bad things will
happen to me… Anyway, that time I quit I smoked
right through the ibo and 1 week later, tossed the
pack quite suddenly. It was totally unplanned but of
course was kicking myself in the ass for smoking (over
and over for years, gotta quit, gotta quit…) had
been going for a long time…
I’ve taken 2 large doses of hcl in the last year for
heroin/methadone
but fucked up with the nicotine.
When I did ibo for drug addiction the nicotine took a
back seat to the task at hand. A couple boosters
(though unaddicted) I spontaniously or with some
thought stopped smoking for several days to a couple
weeks but, not to be, till it was. I chewed nicorette
when I quit for 5 months and then stopped without ibo.
I was actually more calm after quitting, I knew I quit
the second I put them down, it was a relief that it
was over. I did’t think about smoking during the
“trip” but if you want to picture yourself having
chunks of lung removed during the ibo have at it.
FWIW, I did 12mg/kg
I hardly consider myself to have “fucked up” by not
quitting smoking at the time, it just went according
to plan that is all (sometimes I find out the plan
after it happens… works for me).
Im wondering whether taking a daily dose of hcl in
the 30-40mg range would
help more than doing another large ammount of hcl
all at once.
Trying to get out of it I see. You know it isn’t going
to work, believe me (most likely IMO anyway). You
could try but I wouldn’t “waste” iboga if that was an
issue, I would do it right (larger dose) cuz I learned
the hard way (every which way to NOT do a full dose
when I was avoiding a re-treat). If you need a kick in
the ass, small doses don’t cut it for addiction, in a
nutshell.
Im sat here looking at the hcl and just dont feel up
to a full blown
experience in present time….
LOL! I hear you buddy.
paul.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Happy B-day Howard
Date: March 1, 2003 at 10:19:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 2/27/03 9:33:22 PM, randyhencken@hotmail.com writes:
We don’t know each other beyond this list. I know your face, I doubt you
know mine. You changed my life. I am forever grateful. Happy Birthday!!
60 years young!! A great time to start something new.
Randy,
Thanks for the message. I really feel good being 60 and I am scanning the
horizon for things new.
Regards,
Howard
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] More Methadone Horror Stories
Date: March 1, 2003 at 9:11:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
viscious and destructive weed? go read som burroughs. there is nothing viscious or destructive about marijuana, except for the laws surrrounding it. i don’t think marc emery would be such a strong supporter of a scourge to humanity, and he’s mentioned in just about every high times and cannibis culture et al on earth.
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the more free place
Date: March 1, 2003 at 8:53:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
i don’t get this, but anyone who has been to europe or canada would neveeeer say that ameriKKKa (and this is an accurate character spelling; i am one of the few upper middle class whites in my clinic; addiction doesn’t discriminate but society points certain people to it) who has been chained to methadone for years, unable to even get take homes because i smoke pot, meanwhile, earl the resneck drinks a case of bud nightly, beats his wife, but keeps his job as a plumber and gets 16 take homes.I pull down a 4.0 in collge at UNC Chapel Hill, and I still have to stand in line for 2 hours in the am…..But how can I be well withiout being violently, teriibly ill in a matter of days? Especially without pot to calm my already naturally nauseous stomach? HOW DOES IT WORK? I want an answer from a user and a doctor.
From: “A. Moore” <27andy@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
Date: March 1, 2003 at 8:43:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What? No Mozart?
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:31 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
another response to a recent thread about Mark and PK and a few folks I’ve
never even seen here before regarding music during treatment…
Music was an entirely fabulous experience for me in treatment/experiment #2 5
years ago. My guide put on a wonderful variety of music, from piano conciertos
to off the wall recordings from the DR. Demento show to the Gyuto Monks, etc
etc. It was highly cool and synchronized beautifully with the
launch/visions/retrospection/re-entry/touchdown/decompression/reintegration
(did i miss anything?) phases I experienced. That’s how it was for ME.
POST IBOGAINE: I’ve said it before and here it is again, I had to change a lot
of things and the music I listened to was one -for a while-. (Bowing head in
shame, my name is ____ and I’m… a… recovering… Dead Head… its true, its
all true, but I was led into it by peers, didn’t really have a choice, was
abused as a child, picked on at school, had crooked teeth and was forced to
wear braces… BUT THE DRUGS WERE SO FUCKING GOOD!) and I listen to live Dead
now and often wonder… what the hell was I thinking??? not to say that the
people and the places and the trips weren’t entirely enriching and certainly
more exciting than keg parties at the end of a dirt road in Nowhereville, USA.
in all siriusness, I did change my musical library, I shelved all the Miles and
Thelonious Monk, Jerry Garcia, Pink Floyd, et al for some fresh listenables, to
match the fresh headspace that the Ibo catapulted me into. thats what worked
for me, but it was something i decided, no one told me that I should do this,
it just made sense at the time. and I discovered the wonderful sounds of
Thievery Corp, K&D, Plastik Man, Aphex Twin and a whole host of beats, sounds &
grooves that became a part of my post-ibo/human experience.
regarding Relapse & Brainwashing, great topics but I decided not to go there.
So carry on, rant and rave, debate and decide, love and learn, groove and
grind; and beware: They are watching. while we eat, sleep, shit and work. Of
course this is nothing new and just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean
they are not out to get you. velkomen en da 4th reich. Heil Bush. Heil
Rumsfeld. Heil Powell. Heil Cheney. Heil Chevron. Heil Lockheed Martin. Heil da
god-almighty dollar.
www.truthout.org
__________________________________________________
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine, music, relapse & brainwashing
Date: March 1, 2003 at 8:30:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
another response to a recent thread about Mark and PK and a few folks I’ve
never even seen here before regarding music during treatment…
Music was an entirely fabulous experience for me in treatment/experiment #2 5
years ago. My guide put on a wonderful variety of music, from piano conciertos
to off the wall recordings from the DR. Demento show to the Gyuto Monks, etc
etc. It was highly cool and synchronized beautifully with the
launch/visions/retrospection/re-entry/touchdown/decompression/reintegration
(did i miss anything?) phases I experienced. That’s how it was for ME.
POST IBOGAINE: I’ve said it before and here it is again, I had to change a lot
of things and the music I listened to was one -for a while-. (Bowing head in
shame, my name is ____ and I’m… a… recovering… Dead Head… its true, its
all true, but I was led into it by peers, didn’t really have a choice, was
abused as a child, picked on at school, had crooked teeth and was forced to
wear braces… BUT THE DRUGS WERE SO FUCKING GOOD!) and I listen to live Dead
now and often wonder… what the hell was I thinking??? not to say that the
people and the places and the trips weren’t entirely enriching and certainly
more exciting than keg parties at the end of a dirt road in Nowhereville, USA.
in all siriusness, I did change my musical library, I shelved all the Miles and
Thelonious Monk, Jerry Garcia, Pink Floyd, et al for some fresh listenables, to
match the fresh headspace that the Ibo catapulted me into. thats what worked
for me, but it was something i decided, no one told me that I should do this,
it just made sense at the time. and I discovered the wonderful sounds of
Thievery Corp, K&D, Plastik Man, Aphex Twin and a whole host of beats, sounds &
grooves that became a part of my post-ibo/human experience.
regarding Relapse & Brainwashing, great topics but I decided not to go there.
So carry on, rant and rave, debate and decide, love and learn, groove and
grind; and beware: They are watching. while we eat, sleep, shit and work. Of
course this is nothing new and just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean
they are not out to get you. velkomen en da 4th reich. Heil Bush. Heil
Rumsfeld. Heil Powell. Heil Cheney. Heil Chevron. Heil Lockheed Martin. Heil da
god-almighty dollar.
www.truthout.org
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center – forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 1, 2003 at 8:01:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
<Handing the mic to Brett> Yo, you’re on Mr. Calabrese, didn’t joo just
do dis? Please provide at least 19.2 well-written paragraphs. It will
count as half your grade.
<gamma>
MC-BC, center stage, on the Mic… :^?
a recent journey into the ‘realm’ got me off of cigarrettes, which I just kinda
realized because that wasn’t exeactly my intention, but now that you mention
it… yeah. My chest still hurtz when i surf or bike, but not nearly as much…
its been 5-6 weeks and not a craving worth mentioning.
Funny thing about smoking, I never bothered with it since ‘experimenting and
socially’ in my teens, but throw me into a 90 day residential treatment center
and out emerges comes the camel kid, all squeeky clean and brain-washed… then
when i returned to doing what i knew best, I discovered how fucking well
Nicotine and Heroin mix. where had this winning combo been all my life? Eureka!
“…I’ve got nicotine stains on my fingers…”
</gamma>
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center – forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 1, 2003 at 7:05:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On [Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 07:01:49PM -0500], [Jon Freedlander] wrote:
| On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, paul jackamo wrote:
|
| > Dear all
| >
| > Has anyone had any experience with using ibogaine specifically for nicotine
| > dependency ?
| > I’ve taken 2 large doses of hcl in the last year for heroin/methadone
| > but fucked up with the nicotine.
| > Im wondering whether taking a daily dose of hcl in the 30-40mg range would
| > help more than doing another large ammount of hcl all at once.
| > Im sat here looking at the hcl and just dont feel up to a full blown
| > experience in present time….
|
|
|
| If you find anything out about ibogaine for nicotine, please let me know.
| Thankfully i kicked heroin and coke a few years ago; but i still haven’t
| been able to stop smoking….
I think we’ve had variants of this conversation go by at least 5 times…
I’m gonna set up sum kinda FAQ which contains the most commonly asked
questions and answers on here.
But anywaze, to summarize: Yeah it works.
For me, personally, I cannot smoke after ibogaine. I light up a cigarette
and come very close to throwing up afterwards. It has had the same effect
on me every time I’ve done it.
In a great triumph of the human spirit, I always work it back up to two
packs a day; but hafta start with like half a cigarette and use menthols
— this is okay, fiberglass in your lungs provides a healthy protective
coating.
Of course, as with anything else, your mileage may vary. I know people
who are lighting up a few hours INTO ibogaine, and continue to smoke
intermittently throughout their experience.
For what it’s worth, EVERY person I know who has done ibogaine with the
specific INTENT of cutting loose cigarettes; has experienced success. By
“every person has had success,” I mean they’re still not smoking a few
weeks later. I don’t conduct surveys of what happens to ’em years down
the line.
The two people I’m still in touch with, are still stopped, years later.
You don’t have any cravings afterwards, it’s more of a psychological thing
and a question of what to do with yourself.
Smoking may be annoying, but it doesn’t really qualify as self-medicating.
Personally, being real, I just don’t give a shit. I never had any
intention of quitting cigarettes. I know I *should* but that’s nowhere
near the stage of, “I’m gonna cut it loose.”
The day I go to the gym and find I can’t breathe, is prolly the day I give
it summore thought.
Patrick
<Handing the mic to Brett> Yo, you’re on Mr. Calabrese, didn’t joo just
do dis? Please provide at least 19.2 well-written paragraphs. It will
count as half your grade.
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 1, 2003 at 7:01:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, paul jackamo wrote:
Dear all
Has anyone had any experience with using ibogaine specifically for nicotine
dependency ?
I’ve taken 2 large doses of hcl in the last year for heroin/methadone
but fucked up with the nicotine.
Im wondering whether taking a daily dose of hcl in the 30-40mg range would
help more than doing another large ammount of hcl all at once.
Im sat here looking at the hcl and just dont feel up to a full blown
experience in present time….
If you find anything out about ibogaine for nicotine, please let me know.
Thankfully i kicked heroin and coke a few years ago; but i still haven’t
been able to stop smoking….
thanx =)
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] breaking the nicotine cycle with ibogaine.
Date: March 1, 2003 at 6:43:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear all
Has anyone had any experience with using ibogaine specifically for nicotine dependency ?
I’ve taken 2 large doses of hcl in the last year for heroin/methadone
but fucked up with the nicotine.
Im wondering whether taking a daily dose of hcl in the 30-40mg range would help more than doing another large ammount of hcl all at once.
Im sat here looking at the hcl and just dont feel up to a full blown experience in present time….
paul.
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