Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-06

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses
Date: June 30, 2005 at 10:24:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, very well put. You and I got treated at roughly the same time and it is funny the parallels that have come up. I feel the same as you do right now. Very close anyway. I know of a technique using frequincy (bell sounds)  that is supposed to make both sides of the brain more in tune with each other. I tried after Ibogaine and didn’t really get anything from it. Maybe now is the time to try it again. I’ll get back with you on the name of it and where to get it. It is hard to find yourself after years and tears of drug use. I can’t believe it has been 9 months. Ibogaine changed my life. I think I read where Howard said that most people need more than one treatment. I don’t know if that means a full treatment or maybe some boooster doses. I going to try the booster dose first. I don’t want to fuck this up. I love you my brother. We can do this.                  Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] UK ibogaine article
Date: June 30, 2005 at 9:32:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard that is one of the coolest articles I have ever read about Ibogaine. How could any intellegent person read that and not have the intrest piqued a little. I envy people in England. I wish we could get Ibogaine that easily.            Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 9:07:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hehh yehhhhh mate, so am I!!!!! What’s your excuse ;o)
Luff and massive amazing journies
Kirk
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Friday, 1 July 2005 1:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

you nutter !! …….. lol sjonny !!
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 07:23:34 +1200
>
>..
>
>And then there’s IRONING!!!!!  Which is not part of my vocab.  Crease-free
>is.
>
>Anywayyyyyyy all the best – again I sooooooo envious!!!!
>
>I’m ok now, installed a new graphics card and I can play DOOM
>3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG it’s amazing!! I’ll never be seen again…
>
>Til later
>
>Luff and may the Iboga God’s treat you real nice ;o)
>
>KIRK
>
>   _____
>
>Thanks mate , yeah – there’s irony and then there’s Irony!……… catch ya
>later irv!
>
>
>
>
> >From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> >Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:00:17 -0700
> >
> >Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What bullshit that statement
>is. If I could get some Ibo, Id do it yesterday.
> >Keep me posted.
> >
> >       Irv
> >   —– Original Message —–
> >   From: Sjonnygee .
> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
> >   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> >
> >
> >   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to
>take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down
>to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m
>through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack
>out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish
>me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list ……..
>sjonny.
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 9:04:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you nutter !! …….. lol sjonny !!

>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 07:23:34 +1200
>
>..
>
>And then there’s IRONING!!!!!  Which is not part of my vocab.  Crease-free
>is.
>
>Anywayyyyyyy all the best – again I sooooooo envious!!!!
>
>I’m ok now, installed a new graphics card and I can play DOOM
>3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG it’s amazing!! I’ll never be seen again…
>
>Til later
>
>Luff and may the Iboga God’s treat you real nice ;o)
>
>KIRK
>
>   _____
>
>Thanks mate , yeah – there’s irony and then there’s Irony!……… catch ya
>later irv!
>
>
>
>
> >From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> >Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:00:17 -0700
> >
> >Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What bullshit that statement
>is. If I could get some Ibo, Id do it yesterday.
> >Keep me posted.
> >
> >       Irv
> >   —– Original Message —–
> >   From: Sjonnygee .
> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
> >   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> >
> >
> >   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to
>take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down
>to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m
>through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack
>out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish
>me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list ……..
>sjonny.
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 9:01:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lots of love back Jasen , thanks for your support……… cheers mate… sjonny !!

>From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 08:53:59 +1000
>
>   Wishing you a wonderful journey full of understanding and love,…we are awakening.Candle will be lit here downunder.
>
>                                                                                                         love, Jasen.
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Sjonnygee .
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 12:52 AM
>   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>
>
>   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses
Date: June 30, 2005 at 6:55:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

Maaaate,…whats going on. I am sorry to hear you were having a rough trot. I also have been very confused as to what direction to take in life,
there are so many paths. I went to see a keniesiologist, if thats how you spell it, and he told me that the right side of my brain was not properly communicating
with the left side. Maybe the Ibo’ stops the firing from the left to the right side of the brain for a while so we can experience the spirit, I don’t know,..if this is the case
maybe we also have everything material fall apart for a while,..Mmmm confused,..how to put this across??? It is so hard to put feelings into words sometimes.

Maybe our power of manisfitation is depleted for a while as our minds are stilled,..and materialy we do not get what we need to kick along,..I don’t know ,..just
thoughts.

Ok,…I noticed when you got back from your Ibo’ trip,…financially everything stagnated for a while,..things of a material nature seemed to fall apart, this is what also
happened to me,…I was confused,..my mind was not firing properly,..I found it hard to work. Cash flow got a bit serious. I am only starting to get mental motivation now.

I am still unsure what to do with the rest of my life,….is this also what you are feeling. This being opiate free for me is almost alien,..although it is wondorously
wonder full. We have awakended.

I love you my beautiful brother.  Keep on keeping on.

love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses

Hey everybody. Thanx so much for your concern. Some of you know that I have had a rough time lately. All self induced because of the perception I had about life. I’ve changed some things, a lot of things matter of fact, here as of late, but I KNOW I need a booster or something. I’ve been talking about it for a couple of months now. I just didn’t do anything about it. I just want to say that most of you are right. If you think you need a booster or another treatment, you do need it. I shouldn’t have waited this long, but I had a lot to do. Now I still have a  lot to do, but I will get to where I need to go and get a booster as fast as I can. looks like I can pull it off by next weekend. I have a new job that fits perfectly with what I want to accomplish in the next few years. I can’t believe how lucky I am sometimes. The guy I work for is cool about Ibogaine and is willing to let me take a few days off when I need to. My plan is to kick ass for the rest of this week and all of next week, get paid and head for Bwitiland. Aint it a shame we have to go to such lenghts to get a booster? I could go get a script for 60 mgs a day of methadone tomorrow, but I have to put a lot of things in a row to get a mmmmmmmmm lets see……… a 4mg per kg booster. That shit aint right. We ought to be able to get Ibogaine from our doctors anytime wee need it. We can’t sooooooo, what the fuck, I like it underground, it’s cooler there, in more ways than one.    Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 6:53:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wishing you a wonderful journey full of understanding and love,…we are awakening.Candle will be lit here downunder.

love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 12:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:50:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Such nice caring words ….. thanks Tink ……….. I’m excited about this ………… sjonny



>From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:42:58 -0400
>
>Tranquillo,Papi…You’ll be fine!!
>There are more people than you know sending you love and support.
>It’ll be amazing, no matter what.  If you get the chance to, try and
>relax a little bit. The more relaxed, the less stress you bring into
>it, or that’s what I’ve found.  It’s different for everyone, but it
>can’t hurt!
>Love and more love!
>tink
>
>On 6/30/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank You  , it means a lot to me as I’m quite concerned about the whole
> > process , the unknown beckons ………………btw; Tommorow = Tomorrow
> > …………. sorry , I’m neurotic about spelling  –  my bad !  –  Luck and
> > love returned to you ….  sjonny !!
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> > >Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:02:02 -0300
> > >
> > >Luck, Love,
> > >good journey.
> > >
> > >gdc
> > >
> > >
> > >///maybe some synch with this:
> > >http://www.e-sheep.com/delta/heartofthesun/index.html ///
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   —– Original Message —–
> > >   From: Sjonnygee .
> > >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:52 AM
> > >   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> > >
> > >
> > >   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to
> > take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down
> > to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m
> > through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack
> > out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish
> > me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list ……..
> > sjonny.
> > >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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>
>
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:44:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d love that Tink  – anytime after midday Saturday ………….thanks babe ! –  Appreciated .. !!



>From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:24:49 -0400
>
>Bwiti love and happy trailers to you!!!
>I’ll light a candle and send you love and serenity
>tink
>
>On 6/30/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take
> > Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my
> > providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through
> > it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of
> > my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck
> > is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:42:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tranquillo,Papi…You’ll be fine!!
There are more people than you know sending you love and support.
It’ll be amazing, no matter what.  If you get the chance to, try and
relax a little bit. The more relaxed, the less stress you bring into
it, or that’s what I’ve found.  It’s different for everyone, but it
can’t hurt!
Love and more love!
tink

On 6/30/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:

Thank You  , it means a lot to me as I’m quite concerned about the whole
process , the unknown beckons ………………btw; Tommorow = Tomorrow
…………. sorry , I’m neurotic about spelling  –  my bad !  –  Luck and
love returned to you ….  sjonny !!

From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:02:02 -0300

Luck, Love,
good journey.

gdc

///maybe some synch with this:
http://www.e-sheep.com/delta/heartofthesun/index.html ///

—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to
take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down
to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m
through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack
out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish
me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list ……..
sjonny.

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:29:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank You  , it means a lot to me as I’m quite concerned about the whole process , the unknown beckons ………………btw; Tommorow = Tomorrow …………. sorry , I’m neurotic about spelling  –  my bad !  –  Luck and love returned to you ….  sjonny !!
>From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:02:02 -0300
>
>Luck, Love,
>good journey.
>
>gdc
>
>
>///maybe some synch with this:
>http://www.e-sheep.com/delta/heartofthesun/index.html ///
>
>
>
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Sjonnygee .
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:52 AM
>   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>
>
>   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:24:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bwiti love and happy trailers to you!!!
I’ll light a candle and send you love and serenity
tink

On 6/30/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take
Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my
providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through
it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of
my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck
is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: OT[sacred-union-network] Looks Like EU Out Maneuvered the U.S
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:23:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: sacred-union-network@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sacred-union-network@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k l
Sent: Friday, 1 July 2005 4:52 a.m.
To: 1-Precious Prill Circle
Subject: [sacred-union-network] Looks Like EU Out Maneuvered the U.S

Looks Like EU Out Maneuvered the U.S.

Published on 6/26/2005
by Healthy News Service
http://healthy.net/scr/news.asp?Id=7743

International trade regulations for vitamin and
mineral supplements are scheduled for finalization in
July 2005. These could have been modeled after the
lenient United States’ approach. However, retracing
events of the last fifteen years reveals how the EU
tenaciously fought the U.S. every step of the way to
emerge victorious in getting their restrictive rules
as the international standard.
——————————————————-

For three years I have been compiling information in
an attempt to understand the controversy over the
Codex Draft Guidelines for Vitamin and Mineral Food
Supplements (the Guidelines). Gaining insight into the
different perspectives wasn’t enough to explain why
this international document related to dietary
supplements was so important and the motivation behind
the tenacity of some parties to get their way.

Then I learned a key fact that made so many other
facts fall into place. The European Union (EU) is
close to implementing an EU Pharmaceuticals Directive,
which takes the position that anything that changes or
enhances human physiology needs to be controlled as a
medicinal product. This includes items that might
prevent disease. Stop and consider the vast range of
what this covers. The EU has a powerful agenda at
stake with this Directive.

I had been comparing the Codex Guidelines and the EU
Food Supplements Directive and trying to understand
why it was so important to the EU that these be
similar. Only when I stepped back and placed these
documents within a larger context that included the EU
Pharmaceuticals Directive did I grasp the
significance.

Only then did the very short “positive list” of
vitamins and minerals allowed by the EU Food
Supplements Directive make sense. In EU countries,
with so many dietary supplements regulated as
medicinal products under the strict definition in the
EU Pharmaceuticals Directive, there would be very few
nutrients left over to be regulated by the EU Food
Supplements Directive, and these would need to be at
very low, ineffective dosage levels. Any supplement
dosage high enough to benefit a human being would
shift that product into the drug category.

Place this information in the context of the Codex
Alimentarius, which provides food-related
international trade standards that all countries can
be forced to adopt through the enforcement powers of
the World Trade Organization (WTO). You can see why it
was vital to the EU that the Codex Guidelines be in
alignment with the EU Food Supplements Directive. You
can understand why the EU representative was motivated
to fight so vigorously to add “Food” to the
Guidelines’ title and keep out any mention that
vitamins and minerals might have any health benefits.
And why he was particularly fervent to block any
mention that vitamins and minerals could prevent
disease.

If the Codex Guidelines had ended up lenient, there
would be the potential that international
harmonization could force the EU to give up its strict
regional control of maintaining low levels of vitamin
and mineral supplements as food and higher levels as
drugs. To protect its interests the EU must keep the
Guidelines and other Codex standards restrictive and
in alignment with its Directives.

With this new understanding in mind, I retraced the
history of the development of the Codex Guidelines
looking for signs of a EU’s strategy. I found that the
idea to control dietary supplements had been first
openly discussed at the 1988 session of an EU
country-based Codex committee, the Codex Committee on
Nutrition and Foods for Special Dietary Uses
(CCNFSDU). Through the years, the EU representative to
this committee kept successfully positioning the
developing EU Food Supplements Directive ideas as core
elements of the Codex Guidelines. The EU
representative made a big issue of the fact that he
was speaking for fifteen countries. This large EU
block of “votes” in the CCNFSDU and other Codex
sessions worked.

Where was the U.S. as this unfolded? CCNFSDU reports
show that initially the U.S. protested the regulation
of dietary supplements as inconsistent with U.S.
national regulations. The U.S. said that regulation
would unnecessarily restrict consumer access to
dietary supplements. When this did not work, the U.S.
did not, however, propose an alternative agenda.

Rather, the FDA-led U.S. delegation constantly
compromised its views and ended up accepting what the
EU wanted. In fairness, it should be pointed out that
the EU had the benefit of a block of “votes” and the
sympathetic CCNFSDU Chair from Germany (an EU country)
declaring group consensus (approval) for whatever the
EU supported.

What could the U.S. have proposed? Like the EU, the
U.S. has a definition for health-enhancing products
that can designate them as drugs. However, in the
early 1990s the U.S. Dietary Supplement Health and
Education Act (DSHEA) was passed. It designated
vitamins, minerals, herbs, and many other dietary
supplements as food, rather than drugs. There is no
indication that any individual, group, or U.S.
government entity felt motivated to encourage the rest
of the world to follow suit. Therefore, without
significant opposition, a commitment to prevail and
effective use of the Codex system were powerful keys
to success for the EU agenda.

With all of this in mind, take a fresh look at the
various sections of the Codex Guidelines to see just
how successful the EU has been.

The document is titled Codex Draft Guidelines for
Vitamin and Mineral Food Supplements.
The Preamble states that a normal diet provides all
the nutrients you need. There is no mention that
supplemental nutrition can enhance health and prevent
disease–even in the face of a World Health
Organization (WHO) publication documenting these
facts. And the WHO is a parent organization of the
Codex Alimentarius.

We do not know which vitamins and minerals will be
allowed, but numerous restrictive criteria are
included.

We do not know what dosage levels will be allowed, but
several layers of options for lowering them are
available.

We do not know exactly how these unknowns will be
determined or who will have the power to make these
decisions, but sympathetic FAO/WHO bodies have been
set up to produce results preferred by the EU.
In short, while we know the Codex Guidelines will be
restrictive, we do not actually know what this
document will specifically allow. And yet the
Guidelines document is on the agenda for finalization
by the Codex Alimentarius Commission at the July 4-9,
2005, session in Rome.

Once the Guidelines are finalized–whether in July
2005 or at some future date–will the EU be satisfied
to let the U.S. be an isolated haven that allows
unrestricted consumer access to high potency dietary
supplements? Probably not. Understandably, the EU will
want to secure its powerful regional position and will
most likely look to removing any influence from the
lenient U.S. DSHEA law. This could be done very
readily by having an EU country file a trade dispute
with the WTO against the U.S., naming something
related to the differences between Codex and U.S.
supplement regulations. The WTO Dispute Settlement
Panel would compare the restrictive Codex Guidelines
and the lenient U.S. DSHEA regulations looking for an
unfair trade advantage and/or non-harmonization with
international trade standards. Since the WTO
historically makes decisions that will level the trade
playing field, there would be a high probability that
the WTO would rule against the U.S. and direct the
U.S. to revise DSHEA to match the Codex Guidelines.
And the U.S. would have to pay an expensive trade
sanction every year until it knuckled under and
changed DSHEA. Could the U.S. just refuse to pay? It
may take years, but the WTO keeps after a losing
country until it does what the WTO demands.
Historically, the U.S. has changed its laws.

Should this happen, and DSHEA regulations were
modified to be as restrictive as the Codex Guidelines
are ultimately expected to be, would you be able to
continue to freely purchase the wide range of dietary
supplements at your local health food store? Based on
what is already happening in several European
countries, probably not. Could the WTO really use
economics to pressure the U.S. to its will? A review
of trade agreements signed by the U.S. shows that it
definitely could.

What can be done to protect your interests? Is it too
late? There aren’t any easy answers. Advocacy groups
in the U.S have tried for years, but they have
consistently found it difficult to generate concern.
Americans have confidence in their government’s
ability to protect their rights and freedoms. They
cannot believe that there are outside organizations
(like the WTO) with more power than the U.S.
government. Yet, my research has verified that the WTO
has forced our country to change U.S. laws in the
past.

I am sharing the facts I have uncovered in hopes that
you will be better informed and more vigilant for
positive actions to protect health freedoms in the
U.S., particularly from the power of outside trade
regulations. Remember the strong motivation of many
other countries to restrict access to health-enhancing
options, such as dietary supplements. These countries
have become skilled in using international
organizations to support their preferences. You can
increase awareness of this serious matter by talking
about this with your friends and colleagues. If you
hear about advocacy campaigns for protecting health
freedoms, listen. If you agree with their ideas,
support what they are suggesting. Complacency supports
and encourages those working to undermine the current
heath freedoms in the U.S.

——————————————————-

Related Documents for your reference:

. Codex Draft Guidelines for Vitamin and Mineral Food
Supplements

. EU Pharmaceuticals Directive
. EU Pharmaceuticals Directive 2004 Revisions

. EU Food Supplements Directive

. WTO explanation about Standards and Safety
Agreements — SPS and TBT — and identification of
Codex Alimentarius as source for food standards
. Agreement on the Application of Sanitary and
Phytosanitary Measures (SPS)
. Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT)
. WTO Dispute Settlement Procedure

. FAO/WHO Nutrient Risk Assessment Project
. WHO “Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic
Diseases”

. Codex Committee on General Principles 13th Session
(Item 50 on page 7) as “SPS does not differentiate
between the three terms — ‘standards’, ‘guidelines’,
and ‘recommendations’.”

. Link to screen with CCNFSDU and CAC session reports
related to the Codex Guidelines .

. U.S. Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of
1994

——————————————————-

Suzan Walter, president of the American Holistic
Health Association, researched how the Codex
Alimentarius and the World Trade Organization function
and applied this information to track the potential
impact of the document Codex Guidelines for Vitamin
and Mineral Food Supplements. She attended the Codex
Committee on Nutrition and Foods for Special Dietary
Uses sessions as an observer in 2002, 2003, and 2004
and continues working to try to validate true facts in
the face of conflicting information being presented by
opposing groups. Suzan created an educational website
codexinfo.org to explain these matters to the U.S.
public and offer a variety of points of view. If you
would like to be alerted when new information is
posted at codexinfo.org, e-mail your name and e-mail
address to codex@ahha.org.

{<~>*<~>}{<~>*<~>}{<~>*<~>}{<~>*<~>}{<~>*<~>}{<~>*<~>}
The Adventures of KJ Lightsurfer
http://members.tripod.com/~kj_lightsurfer/
An e-clectic mix of awesome images, articles of interest, links, and reviews
of noteworthy Web sites for the gourmet of fine information. Links of Light,
Pages for Peace, and Sacred Sites for Descended Masters, Physical Angels
with Amnesia, and all Others Looking for their Way Back Home.  Web pages
that inspire, inform, educate, enlighten, entertain and bless!

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:23:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

….
And then there’s IRONING!!!!!  Which is not part of my vocab.  Crease-free is.
Anywayyyyyyy all the best – again I sooooooo envious!!!!
I’m ok now, installed a new graphics card and I can play DOOM 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG it’s amazing!! I’ll never be seen again…..
Til later
Luff and may the Iboga God’s treat you real nice ;o)
KIRK

Thanks mate , yeah – there’s irony and then there’s Irony!……… catch ya later irv!
>From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:00:17 -0700
>
>Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What bullshit that statement is. If I could get some Ibo, Id do it yesterday.
>Keep me posted.
>
>       Irv
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Sjonnygee .
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
>   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>
>
>   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:16:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

same from here,if you see an ancestor , say “hi” for me.;)

Best,

Sara

Luck, Love,
good journey.

gdc

///maybe some synch with this:
http://www.e-sheep.com/delta/heartofthesun/index.html ///

—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to
take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going
down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until
I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone
and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who
wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this
list …….. sjonny.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 3:02:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luck, Love,
good journey.

gdc

///maybe some synch with this:
http://www.e-sheep.com/delta/heartofthesun/index.html ///

—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:24:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Many thanks Jerry , I really appreciate  whatever positive thoughts you wish me ! ….. sjonny

>From: jerry harville <jharville@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Sjonnygee, Good luck! My prayers are with you. God
>Bless, Jerry
>
>— irv cutler <irvcutler@charter.net> wrote:
>
> > Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What
> > bullshit that statement is. If I could get some Ibo,
> > Id do it yesterday.
> > Keep me posted.
> >
> >       Irv
> >   —– Original Message —–
> >   From: Sjonnygee .
> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
> >   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
> >
> >
> >   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it
> > , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first
> > time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my
> > providers place in London tommorow night and stay
> > there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a
> > little closer to having methadone and smack out of
> > my life and start actually living again – Anybody
> > who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I
> > owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !#2
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:13:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, was I gotta do? Catch a flight to Bwiti land? Seems so rediculous. Guess the government(s) KNOW, if we little folk awaken, then all their financial bulshit and control will be in jeapordy. To hell with God. So they seem to feel.
Im 52. Dont thins I will see a great chane in my lifetime.
Irv
—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Thanks mate , yeah – there’s irony and then there’s Irony!……… catch ya later irv!

>From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:00:17 -0700
>
>Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What bullshit that statement is. If I could get some Ibo, Id do it yesterday.
>Keep me posted.
>
>       Irv
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Sjonnygee .
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
>   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>
>
>   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] UK ibogaine article
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:12:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/the_north_east/archive/2005/04/14/Ab6l62.f
eat.html

First published on Thursday 14 April 2005:

‘It was like watching a movie of my past’

Extracted from the rootbark of an African plant used in tribal rituals,
ibogaine takes users on a mind-altering journey in which they face their own fears.
Paul Willis reports on a radical new treatment for drug addiction.

ALTHOUGH the details of Louise Young’s life make for shocking reading, for
those used to working with drug addicts, they have a depressingly familiar ring.

Louise, from Brotton, near Saltburn, was just 12 years old when she started
using heroin. Beset by family problems and caught up in a relationship with a
drug dealer boyfriend five years her senior, Louise was a lost soul. Between
bouts of pickpocketing and shoplifting to feed her £50 a day habit, Louise
hardly found time for school or her family.

Before long she was living in crack houses in Middlesbrough, stealing, doing
whatever she had to in order to survive and, by her own admission, out of
control.

“Through the drugs I was more violent than anything else,” she says. “I think
I was very angry at the world and that came out when I was on heroin.”

A short stint in prison for an assault on a girl in a children’s home and a
move to London didn’t change things and, as Louise drifted from hostels to
crashing on friend’s floors, she seemed destined to become just another statistic.

But then, two years ago, something extraordinary happened. At a friend’s
health shop in London she bumped into Edward Conn. The pair soon started seeing
one another and Edward, who had had his own issues with drugs in the past, heard
about Louise’s heroin habit.

He told her about a treatment clinic for drug addiction he had set up using
an unlicensed drug called ibogaine. Ibogaine is a psychoactive alkaloid derived
from the rootbark of an African plant called iboga.

Iboga has been used for hundreds, if not thousands, of years by tribes in The
Gabon, in central Africa, as part of their social and religious rituals.

In recent years, it has been adopted in the West as a radical, if largely
unknown, treatment for drug and alcohol dependency.

But for Louise, her own immediate concerns and the destructive cycle of
addiction she was caught in meant that, at first, she was not much interested in a
cure, let alone one as crackpot-sounding as an African tribal drug.

She says: “My over-riding concern at the time was getting a roof over my head
and my next fix. I think I was afraid of getting better. For nearly ten years
heroin had been my life and it was really scary to imagine what I’d do
without the drug.”

Not long after meeting Edward, Louise’s needle use led to an abscess which
needed 12 operations and nearly resulted in her losing her hand.

“I was in hospital a long time and not well at all through the drugs,” she
says. “I was very wary of trusting anyone, but Edward came to visit me a lot and
little by little he began to win me over.”

Despite continued reservations, Louise, who is now 22, decided to try
ibogaine. Edward, however, was reluctant about giving the treatment to his girlfriend.

The few scientific studies conducted with the drug appear to suggest that a
single dose has the ability to remove the symptoms of drug withdrawal and
reduce drug-craving for a period of time after it has been taken. Taken in large
doses it produces a dream-like state lasting for hours and, during these
trances, users often describe witnessing scenes from their own past.

It is widely believed the drug’s psychoactive properties help people
understand and resolve the issues behind their addictive behaviour.

Last year, Edward was featured in a BBC documentary helping film maker David
Scott get off methadone. He has been treating people with ibogaine for four
years.

But this was the first time he considered administering the treatment to
someone so close to him.

Edward, 34, says: “I had a lot of resistance to it because of my emotional
involvement with Louise. Here was someone I was in a very rich relationship with
and who I was starting to get to know, and the idea of unlocking her psyche
actually scared me quite a lot.”

Louise’s first treatment with ibogaine was unsuccessful. Her father had
recently died and, after taking the drug, she was confronted with images of him. “I
saw his eyes vividly in front of me,” she says. “I couldn’t really deal with
that emotionally so I went back to heroin, probably to block out the pain.”

Despite this setback, a few months later Louise plucked up the courage to
give the treatment a second chance and, under the watchful eye of Edward, she
spent 24 hours under the effects of the drug.

Many of the accounts of those who have taken ibogaine include seeing vivid
hallucinations involving real scenes from the person’s past. Tribal members
taking part in rituals involving the iboga plant often describe being visited by
spirits from the forest.

“It was like watching an old movie reel of your past,” Louise says. “I saw
lots of scenes from my childhood, scenes where I was abused. And, for the first
time, I could make sense of them. That is, I understood what had happened to
me and I understood why those people had done it. I wasn’t afraid because I
could talk about it with Edward as I was seeing it.”

Later, during the treatment, Louise vomited, a common side-effect. “I was
sick, but I didn’t feel nauseous. It was more like I was getting rid of all the
negative emotions.”

That was 18 months ago and Louise hasn’t touched heroin since. After spending
half her life under the control of the drug she has finally been able to
reclaim her life. And though she says the ibogaine hasn’t taken away the
temptation to use heroin, it has helped put her drug use into context.

Edward, too, is careful to explain that ibogaine is not a one-hit cure for
addiction, but is only effective as part of a long-term course of treatment
which also includes counselling and therapy.

He says: “Ibogaine takes away your need for the drug for a few months but
when it comes to examining the cause of your addictive behaviour, you’re talking
about a lot of therapy. I think what ibogaine does as much as anything is
provide addicts with the will to get better.”

Despite the apparently miraculous results that ibogaine seems to offer,
health authorities around the world are stalling over its development as a licensed
drug. Although it was licensed for trials in the US in the early 1990s, these
were discontinued. In the UK it is classed as an unlicensed experimental
medication. It is not an offence to possess ibogaine, but distributing it may be
breaking the law, although this is a grey area.

Edward’s own treatment centre is one of only three in the UK and is the only
one to provide a full holistic service. The main stumbling block seems to be
the hallucinogenic properties of the drug.

“It is a totally revolutionary way of treating addiction and I think
governments have a lot of difficulty getting their minds round that,” he says.

Many in the West wrongly assume that the use of mind-altering drugs is a
modern trend. In fact, right back to the ancients, civilisations from as far apart
as Siberia and South America have been experimenting with drugs.

It is not inconceivable that, at the same time as cultures in Asia were first
learning to get high on the opium flower (from which heroin is produced), the
shamans of Africa were themselves beginning to understand the unique effects
of the iboga plant.

It is ironic that our desire to seek out mind-altering states provides both
the cause and a potential solution to the blight of drug addiction.

For Louise at least this seems to ring true. She is now taking the first
tentative steps towards putting her life back together, including enroling on a
college course.

She says: “It’s great to just wake up in the morning and feel happy. That’s
enough for me at the moment.”

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From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:09:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck, Too bad we can’t get Bush and all his SS agents to try Ibo.If they could only wake up!
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses

Hey everybody. Thanx so much for your concern. Some of you know that I have had a rough time lately. All self induced because of the perception I had about life. I’ve changed some things, a lot of things matter of fact, here as of late, but I KNOW I need a booster or something. I’ve been talking about it for a couple of months now. I just didn’t do anything about it. I just want to say that most of you are right. If you think you need a booster or another treatment, you do need it. I shouldn’t have waited this long, but I had a lot to do. Now I still have a  lot to do, but I will get to where I need to go and get a booster as fast as I can. looks like I can pull it off by next weekend. I have a new job that fits perfectly with what I want to accomplish in the next few years. I can’t believe how lucky I am sometimes. The guy I work for is cool about Ibogaine and is willing to let me take a few days off when I need to. My plan is to kick ass for the rest of this week and all of next week, get paid and head for Bwitiland. Aint it a shame we have to go to such lenghts to get a booster? I could go get a script for 60 mgs a day of methadone tomorrow, but I have to put a lot of things in a row to get a mmmmmmmmm lets see……… a 4mg per kg booster. That shit aint right. We ought to be able to get Ibogaine from our doctors anytime wee need it. We can’t sooooooo, what the fuck, I like it underground, it’s cooler there, in more ways than one.    Randy

From: jerry harville <jharville@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:08:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sjonnygee, Good luck! My prayers are with you. God
Bless, Jerry

— irv cutler <irvcutler@charter.net> wrote:

Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What
bullshit that statement is. If I could get some Ibo,
Id do it yesterday.
Keep me posted.

Irv
—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it
, but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first
time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my
providers place in London tommorow night and stay
there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a
little closer to having methadone and smack out of
my life and start actually living again – Anybody
who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I
owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.

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From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:06:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So sad and SO TRUE! The US govt. would rather incarcerate souls in the name of Jesus than help them. God help this govt.
Best of luck with your niece. I’ve been an H addict over 35 yrs.If I can get ahold of some Ibo, Ill try it. I have NOTHING to lose.
Irv
—– Original Message —–
From: IWNJ@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Best of luck and please, please keep us posted.

My niece is doing H and I am at wits end to try and find a solution to no avail.

The U.S. gov. finds H users financially viable, therefore, tightened the availability of Ibo to the masses.

Oy vey!

Iris

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 1:51:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Nick , very much !! …… Ed is someone who has helped me well beyond the bounds of expectation  –  extraordinarily so – enough said !! ……………… sjonny.

>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>To: <sjonnygee@msn.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:13:46 +0100
>
>Good luck to you, Sjonny! If you’re going with Ed Conn he is a good guy. I
>wish you a great experience.
>
>with love
>
>Nick Sandberg
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>   Sent: 30 June 2005 15:53
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>
>
>   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take
>Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my
>providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through
>it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of
>my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck
>is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
>   /]=———————————————————————=[
>\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>[%]
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: IWNJ@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 12:40:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Best of luck and please, please keep us posted.

My niece is doing H and I am at wits end to try and find a solution to no avail.

The U.S. gov. finds H users financially viable, therefore, tightened the availability of Ibo to the masses.

Oy vey!

Iris

From: IWNJ@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 12:19:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Best of luck and please, please keep us posted.

My niece is doing H and I am at wits end to try and find a solution to no avail.

The U.S. gov. finds H users financially viable, therefore, tightened the availability of Ibo to the masses.

Oy vey!

Iris

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 11:53:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>btw, how can I experience Ibo for cheap?
>and self administer

  That depends whereabouts in the world you live Mauro , there’s people on this list who know a lot more than I do  – ask some more……………. cheers by the way !!!!

>From: Mauro Solorzano <msolorza@mac.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:32:42 -0400
>
>  wish you luck.
>
>Sincerely,
>Mauro.
>btw, how can I experience Ibo for cheap?
>and self administer
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 11:49:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks mate , yeah – there’s irony and then there’s Irony!……… catch ya later irv!

>From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:00:17 -0700
>
>Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What bullshit that statement is. If I could get some Ibo, Id do it yesterday.
>Keep me posted.
>
>       Irv
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Sjonnygee .
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
>   Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
>
>
>   Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Mauro Solorzano <msolorza@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 11:32:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wish you luck.

Sincerely,
Mauro.
btw, how can I experience Ibo for cheap?
and self administer
Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
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From: “irv cutler” <irvcutler@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 11:00:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck my brother.I live in the FREE USA. What bullshit that statement is. If I could get some Ibo, Id do it yesterday.
Keep me posted.

Irv
—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] First time for everything !
Date: June 30, 2005 at 10:52:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well it took me a year to find the balls to do it , but I’m going to take Ibogaine (hcl) for the first time on Saturday morning . I’m going down to my providers place in London tommorow night and stay there until I’m through it. Hopefully I’ll be a little closer to having methadone and smack out of my life and start actually living again – Anybody who wants to wish me luck is welcome to……… I owe quite a lot to this list …….. sjonny.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 30, 2005 at 2:05:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill gates,…Where are you?
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

Rachel, you forgot about the state of the art recording studio in the sound proof wharehouse that was donated by Sony, yea right, well somebody. And the Alex Gray meditation room for artist, with private space for everone to paint in. Just a thought. God I love this.         Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses
Date: June 29, 2005 at 11:58:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck with that, sounds like you’re going in the right direction, and when you are, the Universe (or whatever you want to call it) helps you all the way.
And from it all, I’m learning heaps too.  Thanks for that J
Looking forward to hearing about it.
Looking even more forward to sharing MYYYYY experience lol one day Roger Fink.
One day.
Love to alllllllllllll
Kirk
Ps sorry bout earlier email, um, was supposed to just go to one person lol och well c’est la Guerre.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 3:41 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses

Hey everybody. Thanx so much for your concern. Some of you know that I have had a rough time lately. All self induced because of the perception I had about life. I’ve changed some things, a lot of things matter of fact, here as of late, but I KNOW I need a booster or something. I’ve been talking about it for a couple of months now. I just didn’t do anything about it. I just want to say that most of you are right. If you think you need a booster or another treatment, you do need it. I shouldn’t have waited this long, but I had a lot to do. Now I still have a  lot to do, but I will get to where I need to go and get a booster as fast as I can. looks like I can pull it off by next weekend. I have a new job that fits perfectly with what I want to accomplish in the next few years. I can’t believe how lucky I am sometimes. The guy I work for is cool about Ibogaine and is willing to let me take a few days off when I need to. My plan is to kick ass for the rest of this week and all of next week, get paid and head for Bwitiland. Aint it a shame we have to go to such lenghts to get a booster? I could go get a script for 60 mgs a day of methadone tomorrow, but I have to put a lot of things in a row to get a mmmmmmmmm lets see……… a 4mg per kg booster. That shit aint right. We ought to be able to get Ibogaine from our doctors anytime wee need it. We can’t sooooooo, what the fuck, I like it underground, it’s cooler there, in more ways than one.    Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses
Date: June 29, 2005 at 11:40:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey everybody. Thanx so much for your concern. Some of you know that I have had a rough time lately. All self induced because of the perception I had about life. I’ve changed some things, a lot of things matter of fact, here as of late, but I KNOW I need a booster or something. I’ve been talking about it for a couple of months now. I just didn’t do anything about it. I just want to say that most of you are right. If you think you need a booster or another treatment, you do need it. I shouldn’t have waited this long, but I had a lot to do. Now I still have a  lot to do, but I will get to where I need to go and get a booster as fast as I can. looks like I can pull it off by next weekend. I have a new job that fits perfectly with what I want to accomplish in the next few years. I can’t believe how lucky I am sometimes. The guy I work for is cool about Ibogaine and is willing to let me take a few days off when I need to. My plan is to kick ass for the rest of this week and all of next week, get paid and head for Bwitiland. Aint it a shame we have to go to such lenghts to get a booster? I could go get a script for 60 mgs a day of methadone tomorrow, but I have to put a lot of things in a row to get a mmmmmmmmm lets see……… a 4mg per kg booster. That shit aint right. We ought to be able to get Ibogaine from our doctors anytime wee need it. We can’t sooooooo, what the fuck, I like it underground, it’s cooler there, in more ways than one.    Randy

From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] “UK doctors attack demonisation of drugs” and Ecstacy research site
Date: June 29, 2005 at 9:33:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(from inthemix.com.au)

UK doctors attack demonisation of drugs
News courtesy of Skrufff.com

Britain’s leading medical journal the Lancet described illegal drugs as being an ‘undeniable, even routine’ part of many people’s lives this week, and warned that moralistic ‘war on drugs’ style rhetoric is preventing doctors from tackling health related issues properly.

“The Lancet does not endorse illegal drug use but we believe that the cloak of secrecy shrouding those who use illicit substances is the most destructive feature by far of the cultural condemnation of recreational drug use,” the prestigious journal declared in a leader article.

“Discussions framed by moralizing or by adherence to social ideals have little utility in a society of which drug use is an inescapable part.”

The magazine’s comments coincided with a Guardian feature about ‘creator of MDMA’ Dr Alexander Shulgin which highlighted the ‘resurgence in interest in the therapeutic effects of MDMA (ecstasy)’, despite its illegality.

“Successful results have been reported from trials in the use of MDMA on people suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and in the relief of anxiety in patients with terminal cancer,” the paper reported, “It is a return to the spirit of the original use of MDMA: after its synthesis by Shulgin in the late 1960s, its first use was psychotherapy.”

AND

New ecstacy research website launched (Victoria, Australia)
Reported on Thursday, Jun 30, 2005. 08:28 by barkus

The Centre for Youth Drug Studies is pioneering innovative research into understanding the way party drugs, predominantly ecstasy, affect the lives of users. The new website allows punters to have their say and help influence the way drugs are managed in society.

Dr Cameron Duff, who has also led projects on GHB, says “This study is really the first of its kind in this country – we’re moving beyond more conventional approaches to the study of ecstasy to include questions about culture, place and context. We’re really interested in what it means to use ecstasy – how do people who use ecstasy and related drugs make sense of this drug use, and how is this drug use integrated into the other important parts of people’s lives like work, relationships, family, leisure time .”

Its contributions from users, particularly those in the dance music community, who will have the greatest ability to positively affect the research.  Cameron says “the research project will stand or fall on the quality of the contributions we get from ecstasy users themselves. This really is a chance for people who feel that they have something interesting to say about ecstasy use, to contribute in a meaningful way. We’re genuinely interested in hearing people’s diverse perspectives. We want to hear from people in their own words telling their own stories’

The aim of gathering information is to reduce the harms associated with using drugs. “’we’re really interested in studying the most significant cultural issues surrounding ecstasy use in Victoria in order to generate more effective prevention and harm reduction programs. It’s all about improving the information we make available to young people so that they can make more informed decisions about their own drug use’

For more information on the research, or to have your say,  the new website can be found at http://www.erd-culture.org.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] reality verus imagination and illusion
Date: June 29, 2005 at 9:07:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hehheh, had to laugh at this, reminded me of a time when I was racing around like a lunatic, and for some reason I seemed to think I could walk thru walls etc instead of using doorways.  Bruised and confused, why can’t I? That wall doesn’t exist! It’s an illusion! How do I convince my body of this? Ohhh it’s an illusion too!!  Damn.
Love you
Will try and be here at your 11 ish…………if I;m not here I will leave a message … probly just gone to pick zoe up from school.
Blocked my first ever msn contact today.  Red…. Where Laws was yesterday.. she was here talking to him this morning…… he was being rude and very abusive so people like that don’t belong on my list.  He just lost three friends with that one.  I never really liked this guy… but put up with cos of laws n Justin… thought there must have been something there…….nope I was right about my feelings.  He’s just an immature prat who needs to grow up and stop whining.
Anywayyyy you didn’t really wanna hear that did ya? Lol tough!! Had to “whine” to  someone… and that’s my interpretation of immature…
Luff luff
Bwiti hugs
Kirk xxxxxxxx
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 7:41 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] reality verus imagination and illusion

Reality Versus Imagination and Illusion
By Remez Sasson

The five senses make us feel that the world is real. Seeing the
solidity of the objects around us, feeling the impact of the senses,
it is hard to deny the validity of what we see. Everything looks
real and we never stop to question this reality.

The mind is attached to the five senses and accepts everything as
real without questioning. When we bump into a table or a wall and we
feel pain, it is difficult to say that we are imagining it. When we
see with our eyes, hear sounds, smell, or when we feel heat or
coldness, we accept these sense impressions as real.

Some say that the world is an illusion, Maya in Eastern terminology.
Can we accept this when everything looks so real? Can we regard the
world as imagination?

We need the five senses and the mind to be conscious of the world,
which means that the world is dependent on them. Without the senses
and the mind the world does not exist for us.

If we say that a real thing is something that always exist with no
gaps, then the outside world is not real. There are times besides
sleep, when we are so busy that we are not conscious of what is
going on around us. When there are no sensory sensations, as while
being in a floating tank, or when in deep meditation, we are still
conscious, but not of the world. This means that sometimes we are
conscious of the world and sometimes we are not.

After we wake up from sleep, or get out of deep meditation and
return to ordinary consciousness, we feel that there was a gap in
our consciousness of the outside world. There was no world at that
time. If we endeavor to pay attention to our consciousness we will
come to the conclusion that the outside world comes and go, while
the awareness of our inner consciousness never wavers.

The world exists for us only when the senses and mind are directed
towards it, and cease to exist for us the moment we silence the
senses and mind. During deep sleep we do not experience the world
because the senses are not active. Can you prove the reality of the
world while you are deeply asleep? When you wake up from sleep other
people may tell you that the world existed, but can you prove that
these people existed while you were asleep?

After waking up we may invent all kinds of theories to prove the
realty of the world. Yet, these are only mental theories. During
sleep it was non-existent for us. The world disappeared together
with time.

During sleep dreams seem very real, but upon awakening we realize
that they were just dreams. So it is with this world we call
reality. It is possible to wake from it too. Sri Ramana Maharshi,
the great Indian sage, has said that the difference between a dream
while sleeping and the dream we call wakefulness is only of
duration, one short and the other one long.

Further to the above, each person interprets and relates to other
people’s behavior, words and attitudes in a different way, according
to the contents of his subconscious mind. No one’s world is like
another. Again, we see illusion at work. A world is created, based
on our interpretation of what we see hear and sense.

Mind and thoughts create the world
Thoughts arise and we look at them. The same thoughts tend to arise
again and again. If we let this process continue, it goes on
incessantly. These thoughts make us to behave, expect, talk and act
in a certain personalized way, and thus cause the people we come in
contact with, to treat us and relate to us in a certain manner.

We usually continue with the same way of thinking, and live the same
kind of life each day, whether we like it or not. These thoughts
shape our circumstances and relationships. It is like watching the
same movie over and over again. If we want to watch a different
movie we have to change the reel or cassette. This happens by
changing our thoughts. This is how creative visualization works, and
there is nothing supernatural about this.

The world we experience, and the life we live are actually made from
the thoughts we project. The mind creates a world of illusion. By
changing our thoughts, we change the illusion and experience a
different reality. We do not create a world, only an illusion that
looks real. No unusual power is involved here. We are living in Maya
and are changing the Maya.

When we are able to still the mind and the senses, our consciousness
seems to shift into a new dimension. Actually it is there all the
time, only that the mind makes us think otherwise. When there are no
thoughts in the mind, the world we know and believe is real, loses
its reality. We become conscious of the world beyond the mind and
illusions.

Waking up from illusion
We can wake up completely, understand and become conscious of the
illusion of Maya, and live, as we really are, as a pure, formless,
beginning-less and endless consciousness. Due to illusion it seems
as if we are all separated, having individual selves and each living
a different life. Even when we wake up from Maya, its play may go
on. We continue to see and experience it, yet it is of no concern to
us anymore. Outwardly we may continue to live our life in the same
manner, but we are really awake.

It is like a movie show. A person watching a movie gets so involved
with the characters and with what happens on the screen. He may
become happy or sad with the heroes, gets depressed, shouts or
laughs.

If at a particular moment he decides to stop watching the screen and
manages to withdraw his attention from the movie, he gets snapped
out of the illusion the movie creates. The projecting machine will
go on projecting images on the screen, but he knows that it is only
light projected through the film onto the screen. What is seen on
the screen is not real, but yet it is there. He may watch the movie,
or he may decide to close his eyes and ears and stop looking at the
screen.

Have you ever watched a movie, when at some point the reel got stuck
or there was a power failure? What happens to you when you watch an
interesting, absorbing film on the television and then suddenly
there are commercials? You are snapped out of the illusion to the
world around you. When you are sleeping and dreaming, and someone
wakes you up, you feel thrown out of one world to a different one.
It is the same in the life we call reality. It is possible to wake
up from it.

One who has managed to still his mind and senses through proper
training, may go on living and acting in the world like the person
in the cinema hall, who is no longer interested in the movie. He
learns how to get out of the illusion and wake up. If he is no more
a slave to illusion and dreams, he is free. He sees everything as it
really is. Contrary to what you might think, such a person functions
in his daily life in a better way, is stronger, happier, very
practical and free from worry.

In the East, metaphors are used in order to demonstrate what
illusion is in relation to Reality. A jewel made of gold may be
called an earring or a necklace, but actually it is only gold.
Before it became a jewel and after it is melted it is only gold.
Clay is shaped into vessels such as plates, cups, or vases, but they
are only clay.

Due to convenience of speech we call these objects made of gold or
clay by many names, but they are really only clay or gold.
Everything in existence is “made” from the Original Substance, and
is not a “real” thing standing by itself, exactly as in the above
examples. Nothing has a reality of its own.

A mirage is not real, but yet we see it. A dream taking place while
sleeping is not real, yet we experience it during the time of the
dream as a reality. A hologram looks 3D, while it is actually flat.

In the East, one of the metaphors of explaining reality and illusion
is that of the rope and the snake. In the dark we may see a rope and
mistake it for a snake. When there is enough light we realize that
it was only a rope, and the snake disappears. It is only due to some
kind of illusion that we see a world. Everything is in the mind.
Namaste
Matthew
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 29, 2005 at 5:08:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, great impression you’ve made Tink, Good work and good on you! I gotta admit to a bit of jelousy, as I keep thinking I’d like to take some classes at some point- I just haven’t found many of those certain “yeah, I REALLY wanna do some schooling” feelings in me yet at this point, more just idle dreaming and fantasizing about it. Each time I start thinking “hey, this might be a good idea,” I remember that I’m already writing and publishing and might not get what I want out of the sorts of classes I’m interested in, in terms of furthering my money-making skills. Then again, I’d love to undertake some studies of philosophy and other similar thing- as well as astronomy-type stuff, particularly since my ibogaine voyages, as I’m extremely intrigued by all the space imagery I keep getting each time.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: “Anne Parfitt” <anne@gmavt.net>; <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; “Dimitri Mugianis” <dimitrimugianis@yahoo.com>; <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>; “cparfitt” <cparfitt@maine.rr.com>; “Deborah Terreson” <foodandart@comcast.net>; “Ed Shepard” <edwardshepard@gmail.com>; “hannah parfitt” <hp333@hotmail.com>; <redv@adelphia.com>; “Ian Parfitt” <duffley@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

I got my report card, and, after having myself worked into a righteous
tizzy, here’s what the powers that be had to say…I just thought I’d
share something positive!!
love to you all…
tink

FACULTY TRANSCRIPT EVALUATION
Adult Degree Program Vermont College/Union Institute and University
Student: Tink R. Bell
Seminar/Seminar Advisor: “Knowing Where You Are” -Michael Sherman
Semester Study- title: “Multiple Me: Myself In Words And Art”
Advisor:  Geof Hewitt
Academic Areas:  Writing, Literature, Anthropology, Geography, History

In this, her first semester in the Adult Degree Program, Sarah’s
goals were to develope a stronger voice in her writing, to gain a
clearer picture of herself as a creative artist, and to formulate a
sense of where her future studies in the Adult Degree Program might
take her.  She accomplished this by reading twenty books and
submitting more than eighty pages of poetry and prose.  In her
semester study plan, Sarah acknowledged that she was unsure of the
exact form her study might take and she may have surprised herself by
focusing almost exclusively on writing.
Sarah is a gifted writer.  In addition to a strong command of the
convetions of written English, she brings with her a wealth of
experience from a life that has seen more than it’s fair share of
turmoil.  Remarkably, she does not attempt, in her writing, to justify
her past but instead to explore, in fictional mode, the attitudes and
events that seems to have kept her in a constant state of jeopardy.  A
reader of Sarah’s work quickly recognizes that she know’s of what she
speaks: one cannot seperate fiction from autobiography in the writing
Sarah submitted this semester, yet the work is unquestionably
fictional in it’s presentation and tone. [It’s non fction, but
whatever makes Mr.  Hewitt feel better-tink]
Characterization, especially that of the protagonist, is
three-dimensional, plot and settings are engaging throughout, and
dialogue varies appropriately, giving each character a unique voice.
Until the final packet, sarah’s work was submitted in a timelt
fashion and always exceeded minimum requirements.  She was an active
and welcome contributor to advisee groupdiscussions, and her insights
often brought the entire group up to a higher level of understanding
of the subject under discussion.
Sarah’s seminar advisor, Michael Sherman, writes: “participants
read worls on cartography, anthropology, history, and memoir to
examine relationships between self and surroundings.  They created and
explained maps of a familiar place; did a field study of a little
community; wrote on some aspect of local history; and wrote an essay
about or inspired by Annie Dillard’s ‘An American Childhood’.  Sarah
participated enthusiastically.  Her work was always creative,
intelligent, engaged, and engaging.  She consistantly far exceeded the
minimum requirements for participation, length, and effort.”
This was an unusually successful first semester.  Sarah quickly
adapted to the ADP commmunity, participating fully in all aspects of
curricular and extracurricular activities.  Working with her was
pleasure!
This was creditable learning experience.

Geof Hewitt, Faculty Advisor, 19 June, 2005

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (For Randy and all) boosting gooses
Date: June 29, 2005 at 4:57:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

meaning encouraging Big Randy not to
wait “too long” if follow-up on his jungle journeying is what is
called for at this moment in the breathing cycle of addiction
interruption.<

From what I guess I can consider ever more personal experience, I highly “second that” this suggestion Randy. Do so as soon as you can, if you’re really feeling like you could use one. THAT IS THE TIME TO DO IT! Right then, not waiting any longer, no putting it off. If you are a really feeling urges or feelings that you feel ibogaine would help you deal with, GET AHOLD OF SOME AND DO IT NOW. Do NOT put it off any longer than you absolutely necessary. Just in my layman’s opinion of course.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Eye of the Bhogi” <freedomroot@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote

oh kirk ya giggling kiwi… glad I gave ya a good hoot.

but there’s no americano-lingo colloquial mystery here…  just word
play… rooster rhymes with booster, and “bust a goose” just sounded
(in my twisted mind) like an appropriate compression of  “bust a move”
and “don’t be a silly goose” … meaning encouraging Big Randy not to
wait “too long” if follow-up on his jungle journeying is what is
called for at this moment in the breathing cycle of addiction
interruption.

We picked up the new Tokion magazine with “The Fix” story on TIP (“The
Ibogaine Project”) yesterday.   Dim lighting, film noirish, great
photos, Howard looking all Einsteinish, way to go Loesser & Wildman
(writer and photographer for the story).  love from the gof, lehcaR


“Ibogaine is not, and never will be, a recreational drug.”  Eric Taub

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] reality versus imagination and illusion
Date: June 29, 2005 at 4:12:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This was an interesting read. I like to relate these types of thoughts to the physiological slavery most of us experience…especially here in the usa. We are taught from when we are very young about the rules and laws and pledges of allegiances..ect. We are taught in high school that we must be economically viable and then in college we are prepared for life in a cubical. All original thoughts are “rebellious” and categorized as drug induced ignorance of the “real” world.

A man in Sacramento Ca was arrested for putting coins in other peoples parking meters a year or so ago……it cost the county $30,000 that they usually would have gotten for parking fines.

I say Challenge everything…..rail against the walls of reason……fuck authority….lets listen to ourselves for once.

Thanks for this post,

-Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:41 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] reality verus imagination and illusion

Reality Versus Imagination and Illusion
By Remez Sasson

The five senses make us feel that the world is real. Seeing the
solidity of the objects around us, feeling the impact of the senses,
it is hard to deny the validity of what we see. Everything looks
real and we never stop to question this reality.

The mind is attached to the five senses and accepts everything as
real without questioning. When we bump into a table or a wall and we
feel pain, it is difficult to say that we are imagining it. When we
see with our eyes, hear sounds, smell, or when we feel heat or
coldness, we accept these sense impressions as real.

Some say that the world is an illusion, Maya in Eastern terminology.
Can we accept this when everything looks so real? Can we regard the
world as imagination?

We need the five senses and the mind to be conscious of the world,
which means that the world is dependent on them. Without the senses
and the mind the world does not exist for us.

If we say that a real thing is something that always exist with no
gaps, then the outside world is not real. There are times besides
sleep, when we are so busy that we are not conscious of what is
going on around us. When there are no sensory sensations, as while
being in a floating tank, or when in deep meditation, we are still
conscious, but not of the world. This means that sometimes we are
conscious of the world and sometimes we are not.

After we wake up from sleep, or get out of deep meditation and
return to ordinary consciousness, we feel that there was a gap in
our consciousness of the outside world. There was no world at that
time. If we endeavor to pay attention to our consciousness we will
come to the conclusion that the outside world comes and go, while
the awareness of our inner consciousness never wavers.

The world exists for us only when the senses and mind are directed
towards it, and cease to exist for us the moment we silence the
senses and mind. During deep sleep we do not experience the world
because the senses are not active. Can you prove the reality of the
world while you are deeply asleep? When you wake up from sleep other
people may tell you that the world existed, but can you prove that
these people existed while you were asleep?

After waking up we may invent all kinds of theories to prove the
realty of the world. Yet, these are only mental theories. During
sleep it was non-existent for us. The world disappeared together
with time.

During sleep dreams seem very real, but upon awakening we realize
that they were just dreams. So it is with this world we call
reality. It is possible to wake from it too. Sri Ramana Maharshi,
the great Indian sage, has said that the difference between a dream
while sleeping and the dream we call wakefulness is only of
duration, one short and the other one long.

Further to the above, each person interprets and relates to other
people’s behavior, words and attitudes in a different way, according
to the contents of his subconscious mind. No one’s world is like
another. Again, we see illusion at work. A world is created, based
on our interpretation of what we see hear and sense.

Mind and thoughts create the world
Thoughts arise and we look at them. The same thoughts tend to arise
again and again. If we let this process continue, it goes on
incessantly. These thoughts make us to behave, expect, talk and act
in a certain personalized way, and thus cause the people we come in
contact with, to treat us and relate to us in a certain manner.

We usually continue with the same way of thinking, and live the same
kind of life each day, whether we like it or not. These thoughts
shape our circumstances and relationships. It is like watching the
same movie over and over again. If we want to watch a different
movie we have to change the reel or cassette. This happens by
changing our thoughts. This is how creative visualization works, and
there is nothing supernatural about this.

The world we experience, and the life we live are actually made from
the thoughts we project. The mind creates a world of illusion. By
changing our thoughts, we change the illusion and experience a
different reality. We do not create a world, only an illusion that
looks real. No unusual power is involved here. We are living in Maya
and are changing the Maya.

When we are able to still the mind and the senses, our consciousness
seems to shift into a new dimension. Actually it is there all the
time, only that the mind makes us think otherwise. When there are no
thoughts in the mind, the world we know and believe is real, loses
its reality. We become conscious of the world beyond the mind and
illusions.

Waking up from illusion
We can wake up completely, understand and become conscious of the
illusion of Maya, and live, as we really are, as a pure, formless,
beginning-less and endless consciousness. Due to illusion it seems
as if we are all separated, having individual selves and each living
a different life. Even when we wake up from Maya, its play may go
on. We continue to see and experience it, yet it is of no concern to
us anymore. Outwardly we may continue to live our life in the same
manner, but we are really awake.

It is like a movie show. A person watching a movie gets so involved
with the characters and with what happens on the screen. He may
become happy or sad with the heroes, gets depressed, shouts or
laughs.

If at a particular moment he decides to stop watching the screen and
manages to withdraw his attention from the movie, he gets snapped
out of the illusion the movie creates. The projecting machine will
go on projecting images on the screen, but he knows that it is only
light projected through the film onto the screen. What is seen on
the screen is not real, but yet it is there. He may watch the movie,
or he may decide to close his eyes and ears and stop looking at the
screen.

Have you ever watched a movie, when at some point the reel got stuck
or there was a power failure? What happens to you when you watch an
interesting, absorbing film on the television and then suddenly
there are commercials? You are snapped out of the illusion to the
world around you. When you are sleeping and dreaming, and someone
wakes you up, you feel thrown out of one world to a different one.
It is the same in the life we call reality. It is possible to wake
up from it.

One who has managed to still his mind and senses through proper
training, may go on living and acting in the world like the person
in the cinema hall, who is no longer interested in the movie. He
learns how to get out of the illusion and wake up. If he is no more
a slave to illusion and dreams, he is free. He sees everything as it
really is. Contrary to what you might think, such a person functions
in his daily life in a better way, is stronger, happier, very
practical and free from worry.

In the East, metaphors are used in order to demonstrate what
illusion is in relation to Reality. A jewel made of gold may be
called an earring or a necklace, but actually it is only gold.
Before it became a jewel and after it is melted it is only gold.
Clay is shaped into vessels such as plates, cups, or vases, but they
are only clay.

Due to convenience of speech we call these objects made of gold or
clay by many names, but they are really only clay or gold.
Everything in existence is “made” from the Original Substance, and
is not a “real” thing standing by itself, exactly as in the above
examples. Nothing has a reality of its own.

A mirage is not real, but yet we see it. A dream taking place while
sleeping is not real, yet we experience it during the time of the
dream as a reality. A hologram looks 3D, while it is actually flat.

In the East, one of the metaphors of explaining reality and illusion
is that of the rope and the snake. In the dark we may see a rope and
mistake it for a snake. When there is enough light we realize that
it was only a rope, and the snake disappears. It is only due to some
kind of illusion that we see a world. Everything is in the mind.

 

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] reality verus imagination and illusion
Date: June 29, 2005 at 3:41:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reality Versus Imagination and Illusion
By Remez Sasson

The five senses make us feel that the world is real. Seeing the
solidity of the objects around us, feeling the impact of the senses,
it is hard to deny the validity of what we see. Everything looks
real and we never stop to question this reality.

The mind is attached to the five senses and accepts everything as
real without questioning. When we bump into a table or a wall and we
feel pain, it is difficult to say that we are imagining it. When we
see with our eyes, hear sounds, smell, or when we feel heat or
coldness, we accept these sense impressions as real.

Some say that the world is an illusion, Maya in Eastern terminology.
Can we accept this when everything looks so real? Can we regard the
world as imagination?

We need the five senses and the mind to be conscious of the world,
which means that the world is dependent on them. Without the senses
and the mind the world does not exist for us.

If we say that a real thing is something that always exist with no
gaps, then the outside world is not real. There are times besides
sleep, when we are so busy that we are not conscious of what is
going on around us. When there are no sensory sensations, as while
being in a floating tank, or when in deep meditation, we are still
conscious, but not of the world. This means that sometimes we are
conscious of the world and sometimes we are not.

After we wake up from sleep, or get out of deep meditation and
return to ordinary consciousness, we feel that there was a gap in
our consciousness of the outside world. There was no world at that
time. If we endeavor to pay attention to our consciousness we will
come to the conclusion that the outside world comes and go, while
the awareness of our inner consciousness never wavers.

The world exists for us only when the senses and mind are directed
towards it, and cease to exist for us the moment we silence the
senses and mind. During deep sleep we do not experience the world
because the senses are not active. Can you prove the reality of the
world while you are deeply asleep? When you wake up from sleep other
people may tell you that the world existed, but can you prove that
these people existed while you were asleep?

After waking up we may invent all kinds of theories to prove the
realty of the world. Yet, these are only mental theories. During
sleep it was non-existent for us. The world disappeared together
with time.

During sleep dreams seem very real, but upon awakening we realize
that they were just dreams. So it is with this world we call
reality. It is possible to wake from it too. Sri Ramana Maharshi,
the great Indian sage, has said that the difference between a dream
while sleeping and the dream we call wakefulness is only of
duration, one short and the other one long.

Further to the above, each person interprets and relates to other
people’s behavior, words and attitudes in a different way, according
to the contents of his subconscious mind. No one’s world is like
another. Again, we see illusion at work. A world is created, based
on our interpretation of what we see hear and sense.

Mind and thoughts create the world
Thoughts arise and we look at them. The same thoughts tend to arise
again and again. If we let this process continue, it goes on
incessantly. These thoughts make us to behave, expect, talk and act
in a certain personalized way, and thus cause the people we come in
contact with, to treat us and relate to us in a certain manner.

We usually continue with the same way of thinking, and live the same
kind of life each day, whether we like it or not. These thoughts
shape our circumstances and relationships. It is like watching the
same movie over and over again. If we want to watch a different
movie we have to change the reel or cassette. This happens by
changing our thoughts. This is how creative visualization works, and
there is nothing supernatural about this.

The world we experience, and the life we live are actually made from
the thoughts we project. The mind creates a world of illusion. By
changing our thoughts, we change the illusion and experience a
different reality. We do not create a world, only an illusion that
looks real. No unusual power is involved here. We are living in Maya
and are changing the Maya.

When we are able to still the mind and the senses, our consciousness
seems to shift into a new dimension. Actually it is there all the
time, only that the mind makes us think otherwise. When there are no
thoughts in the mind, the world we know and believe is real, loses
its reality. We become conscious of the world beyond the mind and
illusions.

Waking up from illusion
We can wake up completely, understand and become conscious of the
illusion of Maya, and live, as we really are, as a pure, formless,
beginning-less and endless consciousness. Due to illusion it seems
as if we are all separated, having individual selves and each living
a different life. Even when we wake up from Maya, its play may go
on. We continue to see and experience it, yet it is of no concern to
us anymore. Outwardly we may continue to live our life in the same
manner, but we are really awake.

It is like a movie show. A person watching a movie gets so involved
with the characters and with what happens on the screen. He may
become happy or sad with the heroes, gets depressed, shouts or
laughs.

If at a particular moment he decides to stop watching the screen and
manages to withdraw his attention from the movie, he gets snapped
out of the illusion the movie creates. The projecting machine will
go on projecting images on the screen, but he knows that it is only
light projected through the film onto the screen. What is seen on
the screen is not real, but yet it is there. He may watch the movie,
or he may decide to close his eyes and ears and stop looking at the
screen.

Have you ever watched a movie, when at some point the reel got stuck
or there was a power failure? What happens to you when you watch an
interesting, absorbing film on the television and then suddenly
there are commercials? You are snapped out of the illusion to the
world around you. When you are sleeping and dreaming, and someone
wakes you up, you feel thrown out of one world to a different one.
It is the same in the life we call reality. It is possible to wake
up from it.

One who has managed to still his mind and senses through proper
training, may go on living and acting in the world like the person
in the cinema hall, who is no longer interested in the movie. He
learns how to get out of the illusion and wake up. If he is no more
a slave to illusion and dreams, he is free. He sees everything as it
really is. Contrary to what you might think, such a person functions
in his daily life in a better way, is stronger, happier, very
practical and free from worry.

In the East, metaphors are used in order to demonstrate what
illusion is in relation to Reality. A jewel made of gold may be
called an earring or a necklace, but actually it is only gold.
Before it became a jewel and after it is melted it is only gold.
Clay is shaped into vessels such as plates, cups, or vases, but they
are only clay.

Due to convenience of speech we call these objects made of gold or
clay by many names, but they are really only clay or gold.
Everything in existence is “made” from the Original Substance, and
is not a “real” thing standing by itself, exactly as in the above
examples. Nothing has a reality of its own.

A mirage is not real, but yet we see it. A dream taking place while
sleeping is not real, yet we experience it during the time of the
dream as a reality. A hologram looks 3D, while it is actually flat.

In the East, one of the metaphors of explaining reality and illusion
is that of the rope and the snake. In the dark we may see a rope and
mistake it for a snake. When there is enough light we realize that
it was only a rope, and the snake disappears. It is only due to some
kind of illusion that we see a world. Everything is in the mind.

 

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Prepare for Deep Impact
Date: June 29, 2005 at 10:56:05 AM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 28, 2005 7:27 PM
Subject: Prepare for Deep Impact
To: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>

NASA Science News for June 28, 2005

On the 4th of July, a NASA spacecraft will blast a hole in Comet Tempel 1.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/28jun_deepimpact.htm?list161661

Check out our RSS feed at http://science.nasa.gov/rss.xml!

You are currently subscribed to snglist as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Help I have to go to work
Date: June 29, 2005 at 6:28:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, someone dear to me told me to get a gig for a while, so I did. One of my alters is a painter so I figured that I would take advantage of it and make some money. His name is Seth and he hails from lower Grabassia. So Seth and I are going to work today. We found a job with a guy who is cool about Ibogaine. We’ll be doing the painting on an old house built in 1885 here in Erie PA. Cool old house. So we’re off to work, I swear we won’t drink the paint thinner.              Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 29, 2005 at 4:03:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Awwww yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Th’ Randy is thereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Heh Music for Ibogaining………..
Ibogaine Trips greatest hits
Music for the Very Very Fucking Out There……………….
Ibogaine Users…. Unplugged!!!
And so on……
Wicked!!
And
Booooyakaaaa!!!
Keep it coming on many many talented souls out there.
‘This will be the city of the future’
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 6:50 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

Rachel, you forgot about the state of the art recording studio in the sound proof wharehouse that was donated by Sony, yea right, well somebody. And the Alex Gray meditation room for artist, with private space for everone to paint in. Just a thought. God I love this.         Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 29, 2005 at 2:50:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel, you forgot about the state of the art recording studio in the sound proof wharehouse that was donated by Sony, yea right, well somebody. And the Alex Gray meditation room for artist, with private space for everone to paint in. Just a thought. God I love this.         Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: AIR is going to happen!!!
Date: June 29, 2005 at 2:37:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And I’ll help in the building and design of the healing centre
so we can harness the energy of heaven and earth to help
in the healing of the masses.

Bring it on babies.

love, Jasen.
Ohh I am most definitely there now!!!
Any place that has Jasen involved in it, I;m there.
Now, if Matt puts his talents forth…..(he can create the Ibogaine
dictionary ;o))
And tink puts hers forth
And all u other talented sweethearts…..
There’s no stopping me at all :o)
I’d be in heaven!!!!!

Love and blessings galore to AIR!!!!
Kirk
Lookit what ya started now!!!! I lovelove love love when shit like this
starts being born!!!!!! Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo with the most
beautiful people in the world!!!

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 29, 2005 at 2:26:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And I’ll help in the building and design of the healing centre
so we can harness the energy of heaven and earth to help
in the healing of the masses.

Bring it on babies.

love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

Haaaaa omg what a Mouthful that was!!!!!!
Yeh for sure I am there!!!  Sounds so much like my element, it’s nutz!!
Well, if I ever complete my naturopathy diploma and get back into my Reiki
energy healing……………….I’ll join the healing team as well!!!
Just need to heal Neil first (ah that would be me, but Kirk don’t rhyme with
heal Hehheh, also was thinking of Neil off the awesomely funny Young Ones,
English comedy of the eighties……………awww noooo age is showing!!)
So, keep me informed!!!
And in the words of……………Phil Collins (tink! Is that right?? Heh)
“I can feel it comin’ in the AIR tonight!! Allright!!!!!!!”
Hehheh
Laughter love and freaky freaks
Kirk xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 1:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

AIR.  Addiction Interruption Resources.  What do you think of THAT acronym?

When we win the lottery, or the grant-writing frenzy, that’s gonna be
the name of our support system for Iboganauts.  Join us if you like.
There will be saunas and hot-tubs and flower essences and bodyworkers
and counselors and Rolfers and chiro and Qi medical practioners and
herbalists and fresh air and oxygen tanks and seaweed spas and crazy
freaky doctors who love life and maybe even some neurologists who have
seen the Silverblue globule light.

And perhaps some lawyers and activists and legislators and PACs or
something like that for the scheduled attack on scheduled illogicality
misnomered priority one.   All funded by a radical prodigal ex-scion
of big Pharma riding a motorcade.   Who likes angry feminists and
reformed freaks and shaman-kids with psychic tattooes and popeyed
poets with a lust for lemony spinach and quantum chemist filmmakers
and the bruja-schooled and all things special under the sun.

How did you know we were headed for those dragon gates at Harbin Hot
Springs?

Maybe I need to go to Ibogainesville first!!!

Or stop eating dinner with the professoriate.

There is considerably less fog now.

out.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 29, 2005 at 12:14:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Haaaaa omg what a Mouthful that was!!!!!!
Yeh for sure I am there!!!  Sounds so much like my element, it’s nutz!!
Well, if I ever complete my naturopathy diploma and get back into my Reiki
energy healing……………….I’ll join the healing team as well!!!
Just need to heal Neil first (ah that would be me, but Kirk don’t rhyme with
heal Hehheh, also was thinking of Neil off the awesomely funny Young Ones,
English comedy of the eighties……………awww noooo age is showing!!)
So, keep me informed!!!
And in the words of……………Phil Collins (tink! Is that right?? Heh)
“I can feel it comin’ in the AIR tonight!! Allright!!!!!!!”
Hehheh
Laughter love and freaky freaks
Kirk xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 1:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

AIR.  Addiction Interruption Resources.  What do you think of THAT acronym?

When we win the lottery, or the grant-writing frenzy, that’s gonna be
the name of our support system for Iboganauts.  Join us if you like.
There will be saunas and hot-tubs and flower essences and bodyworkers
and counselors and Rolfers and chiro and Qi medical practioners and
herbalists and fresh air and oxygen tanks and seaweed spas and crazy
freaky doctors who love life and maybe even some neurologists who have
seen the Silverblue globule light.

And perhaps some lawyers and activists and legislators and PACs or
something like that for the scheduled attack on scheduled illogicality
misnomered priority one.   All funded by a radical prodigal ex-scion
of big Pharma riding a motorcade.   Who likes angry feminists and
reformed freaks and shaman-kids with psychic tattooes and popeyed
poets with a lust for lemony spinach and quantum chemist filmmakers
and the bruja-schooled and all things special under the sun.

How did you know we were headed for those dragon gates at Harbin Hot
Springs?

Maybe I need to go to Ibogainesville first!!!

Or stop eating dinner with the professoriate.

There is considerably less fog now.

out.

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 28, 2005 at 9:14:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AIR.  Addiction Interruption Resources.  What do you think of THAT acronym?

When we win the lottery, or the grant-writing frenzy, that’s gonna be
the name of our support system for Iboganauts.  Join us if you like.
There will be saunas and hot-tubs and flower essences and bodyworkers
and counselors and Rolfers and chiro and Qi medical practioners and
herbalists and fresh air and oxygen tanks and seaweed spas and crazy
freaky doctors who love life and maybe even some neurologists who have
seen the Silverblue globule light.

And perhaps some lawyers and activists and legislators and PACs or
something like that for the scheduled attack on scheduled illogicality
misnomered priority one.   All funded by a radical prodigal ex-scion
of big Pharma riding a motorcade.   Who likes angry feminists and
reformed freaks and shaman-kids with psychic tattooes and popeyed
poets with a lust for lemony spinach and quantum chemist filmmakers
and the bruja-schooled and all things special under the sun.

How did you know we were headed for those dragon gates at Harbin Hot Springs?

Maybe I need to go to Ibogainesville first!!!

Or stop eating dinner with the professoriate.

There is considerably less fog now.

out.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 28, 2005 at 7:53:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, heyyyyyy Tinker-give-em-hell!!!!!!  You rock woman!!!!
I didn’t get from your teacher that he thought it was fiction… he knew it wasn’t just that it had a fictional tone to it?  I dunno, but that’s what I got out of it.
Man, that must have rocked your self esteem thru the roof.
I’ll be first in line at the book store.
Love you, keep going my freaky friend
Kirk xxxx
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 8:40 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; anne@gmavt.net; dimitrimugianis@yahoo.com; cparfitt@maine.rr.com; foodandart@comcast.net; edwardshepard@gmail.com; hp333@hotmail.com; redv@adelphia.com; duffley@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…

Sara, I could have swore I told you pretty much the same thing. Whatsa matta U don’t you trust me? Congradulations, you deserve it. Finish the book. Do it now!!!!   Your the bomb             Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 7:21:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Haaaaaaaaa I gotcha now!!! That’s very clever actually!!  Booster goose
Hehheh very good!!!! I love plays on words.
I’m still waiting for the Ibogaine movie (rites..) will be good to see and
show my drug counsellor. And the doc. I know they’ll be interested to see
it, they”l probly show it to the whole clinic.  Could be a very good thing.
Thanks for the translation!!
Love heaps
Love light n laughter always
Kirk xx

—–Original Message—–
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 6:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote

oh kirk ya giggling kiwi… glad I gave ya a good hoot.

but there’s no americano-lingo colloquial mystery here…  just word
play… rooster rhymes with booster, and “bust a goose” just sounded
(in my twisted mind) like an appropriate compression of  “bust a move”
and “don’t be a silly goose” … meaning encouraging Big Randy not to
wait “too long” if follow-up on his jungle journeying is what is
called for at this moment in the breathing cycle of addiction
interruption.

We picked up the new Tokion magazine with “The Fix” story on TIP (“The
Ibogaine Project”) yesterday.   Dim lighting, film noirish, great
photos, Howard looking all Einsteinish, way to go Loesser & Wildman
(writer and photographer for the story).  love from the gof, lehcaR


“Ibogaine is not, and never will be, a recreational drug.”  Eric Taub

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 28, 2005 at 4:40:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, anne@gmavt.net, dimitrimugianis@yahoo.com, cparfitt@maine.rr.com, foodandart@comcast.net, edwardshepard@gmail.com, hp333@hotmail.com, redv@adelphia.com, duffley@gmail.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I could have swore I told you pretty much the same thing. Whatsa matta U don’t you trust me? Congradulations, you deserve it. Finish the book. Do it now!!!!   Your the bomb             Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 4:36:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ohhh yehhh   duhhh silly meeeee I saw both movies about the same time and
listen to the sound tracks together…. so they gets all muddled in my brain
cell…………..both excellent movies!!
And thanks for the um…… translation?? Heh
LUFF U TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
KIRK

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 6:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote

Pulp Fiction, when they’re holding up the restaurant.  Honey Bunny and
boyfriend, and samuel L jackson’s wallet that says “Bad Motherfucker”
Love ya kirkie!!
the goose thing has got to be a Kentucky Fried Randy thing ;]
tink
On 6/28/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
“Randy, whatchoo weighting 4?  Bust a goose Mr. Rooster!  love from the
fog,
rachytwostep”

Ok, please inform this back water Kiwi what the hell does it mean to Bust
a
Goose????? Or is this a private joke?? None the less, It made me laugh me
flippin’ ‘ead orf!!!!
Love this list TO PEACES!!!!! Every single last mutha f%*&^* one of you
(think that was natural born killers Hehheh)
Loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Kirsty Dawn xxxxxxxxxxx

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 28, 2005 at 3:31:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AAHHH YYESSS!!!!!
Finally the dreaded report card!!!!!……Excelnet work!!!! SO FUKEN PROUD OF U!!!!!!……U  MADE IT SOOOO FAR—SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF AND ALOT MORE IS IN THE WORKS!!!!! FUKEN a!!!!!!!!………
REMEMBER WITH PRIDE WHAT U ARE, WHAT U ACHEVIED AND WHAT U ARE GOING TO ACHEIVE—-U ARE AN INTELIGENT LOVELY GIFTED TOTALLY WHACKO TINCHACHOO !!! DOTN FORGET THAT!!!!!
u know u can succed in anyting u do !!!!!!1
WISHING U ALL THE BEST…….HARD WORK DOES PAY OFF IN THE END!!!!! U ARE THE PERFECT EXAMPLE…..JUST KEEP DOING WHAT U DOING…..U FUK UP AGAIN AND U GETTING UR ASS KIKED ……U KNOW THAT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!
LOVE YA….

Namaste
Matthew

Find e-mail and documents on your PC instantly with the new MSN Search Toolbar–FREE! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] And I thought I wasn’t going to make it…
Date: June 28, 2005 at 2:58:45 PM EDT
To: Anne Parfitt <anne@gmavt.net>, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Dimitri Mugianis <dimitrimugianis@yahoo.com>, “BiscuitBoy714@aol.com” <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>, cparfitt <cparfitt@maine.rr.com>, Deborah Terreson <foodandart@comcast.net>, Ed Shepard <edwardshepard@gmail.com>, hannah parfitt <hp333@hotmail.com>, redv@adelphia.com, Ian Parfitt <duffley@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I got my report card, and, after having myself worked into a righteous
tizzy, here’s what the powers that be had to say…I just thought I’d
share something positive!!
love to you all…
tink

FACULTY TRANSCRIPT EVALUATION
Adult Degree Program Vermont College/Union Institute and University
Student: Tink R. Bell
Seminar/Seminar Advisor: “Knowing Where You Are” -Michael Sherman
Semester Study- title: “Multiple Me: Myself In Words And Art”
Advisor:  Geof Hewitt
Academic Areas:  Writing, Literature, Anthropology, Geography, History

In this, her first semester in the Adult Degree Program, Sarah’s
goals were to develope a stronger voice in her writing, to gain a
clearer picture of herself as a creative artist, and to formulate a
sense of where her future studies in the Adult Degree Program might
take her.  She accomplished this by reading twenty books and
submitting more than eighty pages of poetry and prose.  In her
semester study plan, Sarah acknowledged that she was unsure of the
exact form her study might take and she may have surprised herself by
focusing almost exclusively on writing.
Sarah is a gifted writer.  In addition to a strong command of the
convetions of written English, she brings with her a wealth of
experience from a life that has seen more than it’s fair share of
turmoil.  Remarkably, she does not attempt, in her writing, to justify
her past but instead to explore, in fictional mode, the attitudes and
events that seems to have kept her in a constant state of jeopardy.  A
reader of Sarah’s work quickly recognizes that she know’s of what she
speaks: one cannot seperate fiction from autobiography in the writing
Sarah submitted this semester, yet the work is unquestionably
fictional in it’s presentation and tone. [It’s non fction, but
whatever makes Mr.  Hewitt feel better-tink]
Characterization, especially that of the protagonist, is
three-dimensional, plot and settings are engaging throughout, and
dialogue varies appropriately, giving each character a unique voice.
Until the final packet, sarah’s work was submitted in a timelt
fashion and always exceeded minimum requirements.  She was an active
and welcome contributor to advisee groupdiscussions, and her insights
often brought the entire group up to a higher level of understanding
of the subject under discussion.
Sarah’s seminar advisor, Michael Sherman, writes: “participants
read worls on cartography, anthropology, history, and memoir to
examine relationships between self and surroundings.  They created and
explained maps of a familiar place; did a field study of a little
community; wrote on some aspect of local history; and wrote an essay
about or inspired by Annie Dillard’s ‘An American Childhood’.  Sarah
participated enthusiastically.  Her work was always creative,
intelligent, engaged, and engaging.  She consistantly far exceeded the
minimum requirements for participation, length, and effort.”
This was an unusually successful first semester.  Sarah quickly
adapted to the ADP commmunity, participating fully in all aspects of
curricular and extracurricular activities.  Working with her was
pleasure!
This was creditable learning experience.

Geof Hewitt, Faculty Advisor, 19 June, 2005

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 2:24:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pulp Fiction, when they’re holding up the restaurant.  Honey Bunny and
boyfriend, and samuel L jackson’s wallet that says “Bad Motherfucker”
Love ya kirkie!!
the goose thing has got to be a Kentucky Fried Randy thing ;]
tink
On 6/28/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
“Randy, whatchoo weighting 4?  Bust a goose Mr. Rooster!  love from the fog,
rachytwostep”

Ok, please inform this back water Kiwi what the hell does it mean to Bust a
Goose????? Or is this a private joke?? None the less, It made me laugh me
flippin’ ‘ead orf!!!!
Love this list TO PEACES!!!!! Every single last mutha f%*&^* one of you
(think that was natural born killers Hehheh)
Loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Kirsty Dawn xxxxxxxxxxx

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 2:18:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh kirk ya giggling kiwi… glad I gave ya a good hoot.

but there’s no americano-lingo colloquial mystery here…  just word
play… rooster rhymes with booster, and “bust a goose” just sounded
(in my twisted mind) like an appropriate compression of  “bust a move”
and “don’t be a silly goose” … meaning encouraging Big Randy not to
wait “too long” if follow-up on his jungle journeying is what is
called for at this moment in the breathing cycle of addiction
interruption.

We picked up the new Tokion magazine with “The Fix” story on TIP (“The
Ibogaine Project”) yesterday.   Dim lighting, film noirish, great
photos, Howard looking all Einsteinish, way to go Loesser & Wildman
(writer and photographer for the story).  love from the gof, lehcaR


“Ibogaine is not, and never will be, a recreational drug.”  Eric Taub

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 12:08:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This qoute applies to what I’m waiting for Rach. I respect what Ibogaine does and I’m kinda nervous about taking any amount. ‘Course that ‘aint gonna stop me none. “I got an angle Charley” (Heavy Metal)  It’s comin’.         Randy

From: “Ibogi Boogie Boogie” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT eerie zombi dogs
Date: June 28, 2005 at 10:16:21 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html

and I cannot find it anywhere
else. Can anyone recommend a site which sells real melatonin (ie not
homeopathic melatonin)?

Every shop and every other site I’ve seen only sells the homeopathic

version.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 12:58:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Randy, whatchoo weighting 4?  Bust a goose Mr. Rooster!  love from the fog,
rachytwostep”

Ok, please inform this back water Kiwi what the hell does it mean to Bust a
Goose????? Or is this a private joke?? None the less, It made me laugh me
flippin’ ‘ead orf!!!!
Love this list TO PEACES!!!!! Every single last mutha f%*&^* one of you
(think that was natural born killers Hehheh)
Loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Kirsty Dawn xxxxxxxxxxx

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I just really liked this quote
Date: June 28, 2005 at 12:40:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Ibogaine is not, and never will be, a recreational drug.”  Eric Taub

Cause I’m not a lawyer or anything, but the whole Schedule 1 thing
seems really not logical.  Provocative in that sense, from a testing
theory of civil challenges to legality.

Randy, whatchoo weighting 4?  Bust a goose Mr. Rooster!  love from the
fog, rachytwostep

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: [Ibogaine] time to focus….
Date: June 27, 2005 at 11:11:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jeff and Rach, seeing as you posted last night that the session was starting then I figure your friend or friends has been through the flood by now. I hope all was what they wanted it to be. I don’t know what kind of treatment it is I just hope they get as much from theirs as I did mine. I wanna do it again. I know I wanna do a booster. Peace and contemplation to you and yousen’s         Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: FW: [Ibogaine] time to focus….
Date: June 27, 2005 at 7:07:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wowww I am so envious, that’s it I’m saving up, I wanna go bush!!!! Who’s
coming with???
Love heaps to the adventurers…. I send Saint Christopher wit chas!! (fink
he’s saint of travel?? Correct me iffin I be wrong!!)
Kirk xxxxxxxx
Buzz wuzz

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2005 10:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

My candles all melted, but the fire is lit and the love is being sent!!!
Serenity, patience and peace of mind to you all!!!!!!
Bwiti Love and happy trailers!
say hi to the bees
love
tink

On 6/27/05, Ibogi Boogie Boogie <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Go with the light !!

—– Original Message —–
From: Preston Peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

best wishes.
lotsa love and luck and happiness to your friends Jeff.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Gallop
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

hi all
Passing along a message asking us all to light a candle real or in your
heart for some beautiful folks goin’ to the jungle tonight.
I for one wish them the ride of thier lives and a future filled with
ibo-happines…

Also i must on a personal note say that it was on of the grand pleasures
of
my life to be two-stepping with my Racheliscious just steps away from one
of
my most favorite iboangels and friend the other night at the Great
American
Music Hall.

What an amazing trip this life is…..

Heading up to Quincy.Ca for High Sierra Music Festival soon and we are
stoked!

Dance Free
Freak free
Be Free
Jeff

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….
Date: June 27, 2005 at 6:17:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My candles all melted, but the fire is lit and the love is being sent!!!
Serenity, patience and peace of mind to you all!!!!!!
Bwiti Love and happy trailers!
say hi to the bees
love
tink

On 6/27/05, Ibogi Boogie Boogie <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

Go with the light !!

—– Original Message —–
From: Preston Peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

best wishes.
lotsa love and luck and happiness to your friends Jeff.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Gallop
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

hi all
Passing along a message asking us all to light a candle real or in your
heart for some beautiful folks goin’ to the jungle tonight.
I for one wish them the ride of thier lives and a future filled with
ibo-happines…

Also i must on a personal note say that it was on of the grand pleasures of
my life to be two-stepping with my Racheliscious just steps away from one of
my most favorite iboangels and friend the other night at the Great American
Music Hall.

What an amazing trip this life is…..

Heading up to Quincy.Ca for High Sierra Music Festival soon and we are
stoked!

Dance Free
Freak free
Be Free
Jeff

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From: “Ibogi Boogie Boogie” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….
Date: June 27, 2005 at 2:39:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Go with the light !!
—– Original Message —–
From: Preston Peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

best wishes.
lotsa love and luck and happiness to your friends Jeff.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Gallop
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

hi all
Passing along a message asking us all to light a candle real or in your heart for some beautiful folks goin’ to the jungle tonight.
I for one wish them the ride of thier lives and a future filled with ibo-happines…

Also i must on a personal note say that it was on of the grand pleasures of my life to be two-stepping with my Racheliscious just steps away from one of my most favorite iboangels and friend the other night at the Great American Music Hall.

What an amazing trip this life is…..

Heading up to Quincy.Ca for High Sierra Music Festival soon and we are stoked!

Dance Free
Freak free
Be Free
Jeff

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd..cookie break
Date: June 27, 2005 at 12:01:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cookie Break…

Cosmic Cookie

I AM… the Universal Creator… and Poet.
However I appear as an ordinary Creature.
Sometimes I am Masculine
and sometimes I am Feminine.
Once in a while I appear as a Mixture of Both.
I never appear as Myself
for
I am God the Invisible.
I AM… the Light of Creation.
I am Consciousness… I am the All in All.
Nobody will ever know Me… but Me.

GOD APPEARS IN ALL FORMS EQUALLY WELL SUITED

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 27, 2005 at 8:29:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Strange , just before I read your post I was thinking about Manson playing Wonka because he said it was one of his favourite films, plus that intro to cake and sodomy is really cool –  (Stop The Boat !)

>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:36:05 +1200
>
>OMGGG yehhh I forgot about that!~!!!!!  Would have much preferred marilyn
>Manson as a far far darker willy wonka, but only if he could act!!
>
>But ooooo yehhh least I can get off on Johnny Depp AND chocolate at the same
>time!!! Wicked!!
>
>Lol
>
>Kirk
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>Sent: Monday, 27 June 2005 2:42 p.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>Johnny Depp Rocks. One of my all time favorite actors- we’re definitely
>doing a chocolate shrooming for the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
>remake.
>
>;-))
>
>
>
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —–
>
>From: Capt Kirk <mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz>
>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
>Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:50 PM
>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>Urh, heh, ahh yehhh of course…um think I was a bit off the planet when I
>wrote that email.
>
>Heh
>
>Luff Kirk
>
>(Scotty is in rehab and none of us have any idea how to make the beamy
>machine work..)
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 11:54 p.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>I think Johnny Depp is incredibly talented too , I was just being silly – He
>guested on a UK comedy called ‘the fast show’ a few times and said it was
>the funniest show he’d ever seen , I love him for saying that…………..
>ok ! beam me up……..see ya c.k.
>
>
>
>
> >From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  off topic but i get do  2 ks (hcl) !
>………Mr.Peet
> >Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:02:09 +1200
> >
> >Well, excuseeeee me but I recently saw an Actors Studio of Johnny Depp and
>I
> >love ‘im more than life issss sself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah self……….
> >such a down to earth bloke, he roks in my opin-onion and that’s big coming
> >from me
> >
> >Like Im so special hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like my opinion means jack
> >
> >Love to all
> >
> >Very happy kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> >From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
> >Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 8:28 a.m.
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) !
>………Mr.Peet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you
> >looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other
> >gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane
> >drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian
>Roulette
> >or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and
>Johnny
> >Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one
> >eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of
> >that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to
> >me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however
> >probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that
> >being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something
>important
> >like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts
> >that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood,
>I
> >devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if
>you
> >can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later
> >Preston !!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> > >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
> > >
> > >Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+
> > >posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating
> > >the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
> > >
> > >Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer
> > >writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three
> > >passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
> > >
> > >>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel
> > >>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at
> > >>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
> > >>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude
> > >>you apply to a thread ?<
> > >
> > >Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always
> > >good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
> > >
> > >>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
> > >>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
> > >>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
> > >>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
> > >>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
> > >>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
> > >>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
> > >>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
> > >
> > >That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make
> > >me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist”
> > >sounds very cool.
> > >
> > >>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves
> > >>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
> > >
> > >Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
> > >decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I
> > >started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together
> > >the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant
> > >out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and
> > >artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the
> > >place look like a spaceship or something, among other
> > >artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body
> > >rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to
> > >continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I
> > >could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I
> > >could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote,
> > >pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched,
> > >mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and
> > >then gradually started selling my writing.
> > >    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a
> > >desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude
> > >here, taking it away there.
> > >    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
> > >;-))
> > >    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
> > >opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to
> > >no complaints.
> > >    Any other questions?
> > >
> > >Peace and love,
> > >Preston
> > >
> > >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> > >often mistaken for madness”
> > >Richard Davenport-Hines
> > >
> > >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> > >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> > >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> > >Sept. 2005)
> > >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> > >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > >Columnist New York Waste
> > >Etc.
> > >
> > >—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
> > >Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> > >
> > >
> > >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list
> > >in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of
> > >a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work
> > >to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week ,
> > >I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative ,
> > >I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the
> > >rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can
> > >I get a cut.
> > >       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. –
> > >Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once
> > >told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last
> > >year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian
> > >soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive
> > >civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century
> > >Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a
> > >round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who
> > >does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
> > >type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
> > >Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
> > >……….sjonny.
> > >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> > >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> > >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> > >>in August?
> > >>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> > >>
> > >>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> > >>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> > >>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> > >>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> > >>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> > >>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the
> > >>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of
> > >>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only
> > >>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or
> > >>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of
> > >>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look
> > >>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there,
> > >>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Peace and love,
> > >>Preston Peet
> > >>
> > >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> > >>often mistaken for madness”
> > >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> > >>
> > >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> > >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> > >>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> > >>Sept. 2005)
> > >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> > >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > >>Columnist New York Waste
> > >>Etc.
> > >>
> > >>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> > >><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> > >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> > >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> > >>in August?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> > >>>email
> > >>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> > >>>Lol
> > >>>Damn…
> > >>>Oh well.
> > >>>Kirk
> > >>>
> > >>>—–Original Message—–
> > >>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> > >>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> > >>>in August?
> > >>>
> > >>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> > >>>already? I
> > >>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one
> > >>>before to see
> > >>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> > >>>And they
> > >>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> > >>>buggered if I
> > >>>know Preston!!!
> > >>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> > >>>star gazer
> > >>>by nature.
> > >>>
> > >>>—–Original Message—–
> > >>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> > >>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> > >>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> > >>>August?
> > >>>
> > >>>Hi all,
> > >>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> > >>>how Mars
> > >>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> > >>>Anyone
> > >>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> > >>>I’ve no
> > >>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> > >>>full
> > >>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> > >>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> > >>>going
> > >>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> > >>>rock of a
> > >>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> > >>>for a
> > >>>fly-by):
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> > >>>Earth
> > >>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in
> > >>>the
> > >>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> > >>>next
> > >>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> > >>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> > >>>be
> > >>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> > >>>5,000
> > >>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> > >>>again.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> > >>>within
> > >>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> > >>>brightest
> > >>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> > >>>will
> > >>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> > >>>will be
> > >>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> > >>>at
> > >>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> > >>>when
> > >>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> > >>>its
> > >>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> > >>>see
> > >>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> > >>>mark
> > >>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> > >>>progressively
> > >>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> > >>><
> > >>>
> > >>>Peace and love,
> > >>>Preston Peet
> > >>>
> > >>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> > >>>often
> > >>>mistaken for madness”
> > >>>Richard Davenport-Hines
> > >>>
> > >>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > >>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > >>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> > >>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> > >>>Civilizations,
> > >>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> > >>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> > >>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > >>>Columnist New York Waste
> > >>>Etc.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\
> > >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > >>>[%]
> > >>>
> >
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\
> > >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > >>>[%]
> > >>>
> >
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\
> > >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >>>
> >
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[
> >\
> > >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >>
> >
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[
> >/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >[%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>[%]
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>
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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] melatonin
Date: June 27, 2005 at 7:26:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard, that must it, it never occurred to me they’d ban melatonin, but allow the sale of a homeopathic version. But as l-tryptophan and 5-htp are restricted here, its conceivable and likely melatonin would be too. As silly as that is.

And thanks Keith, I’ll make sure I get the synthetic version!

Boris

Hi Boris,

Possibly, melotonin is restricted in Australia as it is in the UK.  In the
US
you can just load up on mega doses.  Hope I have the facts right.

Howard

In a message dated 6/26/05 9:57:15 AM, bleshins@bigpond.net.au writes:

A couple of people have mentioned melatonin as a sleep aid. I’ve bought
some before from here
http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-melatonin.asp
a site recommended to me by a friend, as it is the only melatonin he’s
found that is not the homeopathic crap, which does nothing. That site is
currently not selling it for some reason and I cannot find it anywhere
else. Can anyone recommend a site which sells real melatonin (ie not
homeopathic melatonin)?

Every shop and every other site I’ve seen only sells the homeopathic

version.

/]=———————————————————————
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 27, 2005 at 4:36:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OMGGG yehhh I forgot about that!~!!!!!  Would have much preferred marilyn Manson as a far far darker willy wonka, but only if he could act!!
But ooooo yehhh least I can get off on Johnny Depp AND chocolate at the same time!!! Wicked!!
Lol
Kirk
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com] 
Sent: Monday, 27 June 2005 2:42 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

Johnny Depp Rocks. One of my all time favorite actors- we’re definitely doing a chocolate shrooming for the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory remake.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

Urh, heh, ahh yehhh of course…..um think I was a bit off the planet when I wrote that email.
Heh
Luff Kirk
(Scotty is in rehab and none of us have any idea how to make the beamy machine work……)
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 11:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

I think Johnny Depp is incredibly talented too , I was just being silly – He guested on a UK comedy called ‘the fast show’ a few times and said it was the funniest show he’d ever seen , I love him for saying that………….. ok ! beam me up……..see ya c.k.
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  off topic but i get do  2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:02:09 +1200
>
>Well, excuseeeee me but I recently saw an Actors Studio of Johnny Depp and I
>love ‘im more than life issss sself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah self……….
>such a down to earth bloke, he roks in my opin-onion and that’s big coming
>from me
>
>Like Im so special hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like my opinion means jack
>
>Love to all
>
>Very happy kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 8:28 a.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>
>
>You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you
>looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other
>gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane
>drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian Roulette
>or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and Johnny
>Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one
>eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of
>that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to
>me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however
>probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that
>being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something important
>like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts
>that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood, I
>devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if you
>can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later
>Preston !!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
> >
> >Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+
> >posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating
> >the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
> >
> >Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer
> >writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three
> >passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
> >
> >>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel
> >>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at
> >>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
> >>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude
> >>you apply to a thread ?<
> >
> >Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always
> >good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
> >
> >>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
> >>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
> >>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
> >>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
> >>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
> >>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
> >>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
> >>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
> >
> >That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make
> >me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist”
> >sounds very cool.
> >
> >>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves
> >>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
> >
> >Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
> >decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I
> >started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together
> >the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant
> >out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and
> >artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the
> >place look like a spaceship or something, among other
> >artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body
> >rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to
> >continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I
> >could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I
> >could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote,
> >pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched,
> >mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and
> >then gradually started selling my writing.
> >    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a
> >desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude
> >here, taking it away there.
> >    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
> >;-))
> >    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
> >opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to
> >no complaints.
> >    Any other questions?
> >
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >often mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >
> >
> >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list
> >in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of
> >a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work
> >to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week ,
> >I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative ,
> >I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the
> >rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can
> >I get a cut.
> >       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. -
> >Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once
> >told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last
> >year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian
> >soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive
> >civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century
> >Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a
> >round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who
> >does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
> >type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
> >Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
> >……….sjonny.
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> >>
> >>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> >>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> >>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> >>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> >>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> >>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the
> >>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of
> >>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only
> >>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or
> >>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of
> >>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look
> >>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there,
> >>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>Peace and love,
> >>Preston Peet
> >>
> >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>often mistaken for madness”
> >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >>Sept. 2005)
> >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>Columnist New York Waste
> >>Etc.
> >>
> >>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> >><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>
> >>
> >>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> >>>email
> >>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> >>>Lol
> >>>Damn…
> >>>Oh well.
> >>>Kirk
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> >>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>>in August?
> >>>
> >>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> >>>already? I
> >>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one
> >>>before to see
> >>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> >>>And they
> >>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> >>>buggered if I
> >>>know Preston!!!
> >>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> >>>star gazer
> >>>by nature.
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> >>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >>>August?
> >>>
> >>>Hi all,
> >>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> >>>how Mars
> >>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> >>>Anyone
> >>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> >>>I’ve no
> >>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> >>>full
> >>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> >>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> >>>going
> >>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> >>>rock of a
> >>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> >>>for a
> >>>fly-by):
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> >>>Earth
> >>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in
> >>>the
> >>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> >>>next
> >>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> >>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> >>>be
> >>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> >>>5,000
> >>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> >>>again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> >>>within
> >>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> >>>brightest
> >>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> >>>will
> >>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> >>>will be
> >>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> >>>at
> >>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> >>>when
> >>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> >>>its
> >>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> >>>see
> >>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> >>>mark
> >>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> >>>progressively
> >>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> >>><
> >>>
> >>>Peace and love,
> >>>Preston Peet
> >>>
> >>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>>often
> >>>mistaken for madness”
> >>>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>>
> >>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>>Civilizations,
> >>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>>Columnist New York Waste
> >>>Etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\
> >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >>>[%]
> >>>
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\
> >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >>>[%]
> >>>
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\
> >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>>
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[
>\
> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[
>/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>[%]
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] time to focus….
Date: June 26, 2005 at 10:44:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

best wishes.
lotsa love and luck and happiness to your friends Jeff.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Gallop
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] time to focus….

hi all
Passing along a message asking us all to light a candle real or in your heart for some beautiful folks goin’ to the jungle tonight.
I for one wish them the ride of thier lives and a future filled with ibo-happines…

Also i must on a personal note say that it was on of the grand pleasures of my life to be two-stepping with my Racheliscious just steps away from one of my most favorite iboangels and friend the other night at the Great American Music Hall.

What an amazing trip this life is…..

Heading up to Quincy.Ca for High Sierra Music Festival soon and we are stoked!

Dance Free
Freak free
Be Free
Jeff

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 26, 2005 at 10:41:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Johnny Depp Rocks. One of my all time favorite actors- we’re definitely doing a chocolate shrooming for the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory remake.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

Urh, heh, ahh yehhh of course…..um think I was a bit off the planet when I wrote that email.
Heh
Luff Kirk
(Scotty is in rehab and none of us have any idea how to make the beamy machine work……)
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 11:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

I think Johnny Depp is incredibly talented too , I was just being silly – He guested on a UK comedy called ‘the fast show’ a few times and said it was the funniest show he’d ever seen , I love him for saying that………….. ok ! beam me up……..see ya c.k.
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  off topic but i get do  2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:02:09 +1200
>
>Well, excuseeeee me but I recently saw an Actors Studio of Johnny Depp and I
>love ‘im more than life issss sself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah self……….
>such a down to earth bloke, he roks in my opin-onion and that’s big coming
>from me
>
>Like Im so special hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like my opinion means jack
>
>Love to all
>
>Very happy kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 8:28 a.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>
>
>You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you
>looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other
>gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane
>drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian Roulette
>or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and Johnny
>Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one
>eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of
>that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to
>me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however
>probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that
>being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something important
>like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts
>that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood, I
>devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if you
>can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later
>Preston !!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
> >
> >Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+
> >posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating
> >the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
> >
> >Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer
> >writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three
> >passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
> >
> >>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel
> >>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at
> >>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
> >>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude
> >>you apply to a thread ?<
> >
> >Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always
> >good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
> >
> >>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
> >>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
> >>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
> >>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
> >>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
> >>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
> >>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
> >>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
> >
> >That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make
> >me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist”
> >sounds very cool.
> >
> >>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves
> >>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
> >
> >Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
> >decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I
> >started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together
> >the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant
> >out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and
> >artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the
> >place look like a spaceship or something, among other
> >artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body
> >rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to
> >continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I
> >could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I
> >could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote,
> >pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched,
> >mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and
> >then gradually started selling my writing.
> >    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a
> >desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude
> >here, taking it away there.
> >    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
> >;-))
> >    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
> >opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to
> >no complaints.
> >    Any other questions?
> >
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >often mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >
> >
> >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list
> >in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of
> >a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work
> >to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week ,
> >I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative ,
> >I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the
> >rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can
> >I get a cut.
> >       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. -
> >Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once
> >told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last
> >year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian
> >soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive
> >civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century
> >Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a
> >round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who
> >does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
> >type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
> >Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
> >……….sjonny.
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> >>
> >>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> >>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> >>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> >>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> >>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> >>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the
> >>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of
> >>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only
> >>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or
> >>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of
> >>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look
> >>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there,
> >>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>Peace and love,
> >>Preston Peet
> >>
> >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>often mistaken for madness”
> >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >>Sept. 2005)
> >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>Columnist New York Waste
> >>Etc.
> >>
> >>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> >><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>
> >>
> >>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> >>>email
> >>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> >>>Lol
> >>>Damn…
> >>>Oh well.
> >>>Kirk
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> >>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>>in August?
> >>>
> >>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> >>>already? I
> >>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one
> >>>before to see
> >>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> >>>And they
> >>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> >>>buggered if I
> >>>know Preston!!!
> >>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> >>>star gazer
> >>>by nature.
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> >>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >>>August?
> >>>
> >>>Hi all,
> >>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> >>>how Mars
> >>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> >>>Anyone
> >>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> >>>I’ve no
> >>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> >>>full
> >>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> >>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> >>>going
> >>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> >>>rock of a
> >>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> >>>for a
> >>>fly-by):
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> >>>Earth
> >>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in
> >>>the
> >>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> >>>next
> >>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> >>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> >>>be
> >>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> >>>5,000
> >>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> >>>again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> >>>within
> >>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> >>>brightest
> >>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> >>>will
> >>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> >>>will be
> >>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> >>>at
> >>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> >>>when
> >>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> >>>its
> >>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> >>>see
> >>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> >>>mark
> >>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> >>>progressively
> >>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> >>><
> >>>
> >>>Peace and love,
> >>>Preston Peet
> >>>
> >>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>>often
> >>>mistaken for madness”
> >>>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>>
> >>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>>Civilizations,
> >>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>>Columnist New York Waste
> >>>Etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\
> >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >>>[%]
> >>>
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\
> >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >>>[%]
> >>>
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\
> >>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>>
> >>>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[
>\
> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[
>/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>[%]
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] test
Date: June 26, 2005 at 10:31:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

test

From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] time to focus….
Date: June 26, 2005 at 9:43:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi all
Passing along a message asking us all to light a candle real or in your heart for some beautiful folks goin’ to the jungle tonight.
I for one wish them the ride of thier lives and a future filled with ibo-happines…

Also i must on a personal note say that it was on of the grand pleasures of my life to be two-stepping with my Racheliscious just steps away from one of my most favorite iboangels and friend the other night at the Great American Music Hall.

What an amazing trip this life is…..

Heading up to Quincy.Ca for High Sierra Music Festival soon and we are stoked!

Dance Free
Freak free
Be Free
Jeff

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 26, 2005 at 5:50:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Urh, heh, ahh yehhh of course…..um think I was a bit off the planet when I wrote that email.
Heh
Luff Kirk
(Scotty is in rehab and none of us have any idea how to make the beamy machine work……)
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 11:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

I think Johnny Depp is incredibly talented too , I was just being silly – He guested on a UK comedy called ‘the fast show’ a few times and said it was the funniest show he’d ever seen , I love him for saying that………….. ok ! beam me up……..see ya c.k.
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  off topic but i get do  2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:02:09 +1200
>
>Well, excuseeeee me but I recently saw an Actors Studio of Johnny Depp and I
>love ‘im more than life issss sself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah self……….
>such a down to earth bloke, he roks in my opin-onion and that’s big coming
>from me
>
>Like Im so special hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like my opinion means jack
>
>Love to all
>
>Very happy kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 8:28 a.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>
>
>You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you
>looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other
>gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane
>drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian Roulette
>or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and Johnny
>Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one
>eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of
>that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to
>me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however
>probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that
>being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something important
>like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts
>that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood, I
>devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if you
>can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later
>Preston !!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
> >
> >Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+
> >posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating
> >the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
> >
> >Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer
> >writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three
> >passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
> >
> >>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel
> >>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at
> >>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
> >>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude
> >>you apply to a thread ?<
> >
> >Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always
> >good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
> >
> >>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
> >>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
> >>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
> >>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
> >>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
> >>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
> >>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
> >>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
> >
> >That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make
> >me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist”
> >sounds very cool.
> >
> >>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves
> >>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
> >
> >Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
> >decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I
> >started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together
> >the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant
> >out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and
> >artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the
> >place look like a spaceship or something, among other
> >artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body
> >rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to
> >continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I
> >could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I
> >could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote,
> >pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched,
> >mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and
> >then gradually started selling my writing.
> >    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a
> >desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude
> >here, taking it away there.
> >    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
> >;-))
> >    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
> >opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to
> >no complaints.
> >    Any other questions?
> >
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >often mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >
> >
> >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list
> >in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of
> >a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work
> >to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week ,
> >I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative ,
> >I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the
> >rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can
> >I get a cut.
> >       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. -
> >Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once
> >told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last
> >year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian
> >soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive
> >civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century
> >Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a
> >round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who
> >does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
> >type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
> >Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
> >……….sjonny.
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> >>
> >>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> >>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> >>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> >>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> >>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> >>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the
> >>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of
> >>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only
> >>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or
> >>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of
> >>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look
> >>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there,
> >>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>Peace and love,
> >>Preston Peet
> >>
> >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>often mistaken for madness”
> >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >>Sept. 2005)
> >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>Columnist New York Waste
> >>Etc.
> >>
> >>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> >><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>
> >>
> >>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> >>>email
> >>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> >>>Lol
> >>>Damn…
> >>>Oh well.
> >>>Kirk
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> >>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>>in August?
> >>>
> >>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> >>>already? I
> >>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one
> >>>before to see
> >>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> >>>And they
> >>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> >>>buggered if I
> >>>know Preston!!!
> >>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> >>>star gazer
> >>>by nature.
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> >>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >>>August?
> >>>
> >>>Hi all,
> >>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> >>>how Mars
> >>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> >>>Anyone
> >>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> >>>I’ve no
> >>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> >>>full
> >>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> >>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> >>>going
> >>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> >>>rock of a
> >>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> >>>for a
> >>>fly-by):
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> >>>Earth
> >>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in
> >>>the
> >>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> >>>next
> >>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> >>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> >>>be
> >>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> >>>5,000
> >>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> >>>again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> >>>within
> >>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> >>>brightest
> >>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> >>>will
> >>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> >>>will be
> >>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> >>>at
> >>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> >>>when
> >>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> >>>its
> >>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> >>>see
> >>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> >>>mark
> >>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> >>>progressively
> >>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> >>><
> >>>
> >>>Peace and love,
> >>>Preston Peet
> >>>
> >>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>>often
> >>>mistaken for madness”
> >>>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>>
> >>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>>Civilizations,
> >>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>>Columnist New York Waste
> >>>Etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/]=———————————————————————=
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >
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From: “Ibogi Boogie Boogie” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] strange stuff
Date: June 26, 2005 at 12:52:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Strange stuff, good stuff. Thanks
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] strange stuff

Yes, it’s completely clear the Pentagon was hit by a missile on 9/11.
There’s so much evidence now it’s just ridiculous I think to even question
it. Which does rather call into question the origin of the other attacks.
I
mean, basically, the Americans created the attacks purely to start wars in
the Middle East and impose an assortment of tedious restrictions on their
own citizens. But most people have such an investment in the authorized
version of history they just won’t believe it. At some point I guess a
threshold number of people are going to believe and hopefully much will
change.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 25 June 2005 21:14
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] strange stuff

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

http://www.quantumfuture.net/store/downloads.php

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] melatonin
Date: June 26, 2005 at 12:06:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Boris,

Possibly, melotonin is restricted in Australia as it is in the UK.  In the US
you can just load up on mega doses.  Hope I have the facts right.

Howard

In a message dated 6/26/05 9:57:15 AM, bleshins@bigpond.net.au writes:

A couple of people have mentioned melatonin as a sleep aid. I’ve bought
some before from here
http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-melatonin.asp
a site recommended to me by a friend, as it is the only melatonin he’s
found that is not the homeopathic crap, which does nothing. That site is
currently not selling it for some reason and I cannot find it anywhere
else. Can anyone recommend a site which sells real melatonin (ie not
homeopathic melatonin)?

Every shop and every other site I’ve seen only sells the homeopathic

version.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] strange stuff
Date: June 26, 2005 at 11:16:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, it’s completely clear the Pentagon was hit by a missile on 9/11.
There’s so much evidence now it’s just ridiculous I think to even question
it. Which does rather call into question the origin of the other attacks. I
mean, basically, the Americans created the attacks purely to start wars in
the Middle East and impose an assortment of tedious restrictions on their
own citizens. But most people have such an investment in the authorized
version of history they just won’t believe it. At some point I guess a
threshold number of people are going to believe and hopefully much will
change.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 25 June 2005 21:14
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] strange stuff

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

http://www.quantumfuture.net/store/downloads.php

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] melatonin
Date: June 26, 2005 at 10:59:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Boris,

Natural melatonin is made from the pineal gland of animals. This form could be contaminated with a virus and is not recommended. The synthetic form of melatonin does not have this risk. Other than this difference in production I can’t find any substantial differences in the medication/supplement. The synthetic version may be more tolerable at higher dosages, but there definitely is a point of diminishing returns with Melatonin dosage and frequency. I also only use the synthetic form as a sleep aid and buy it from a vitamin shop close to me.I recommend using <“Synthetic Melatonin”> as your search string, or you can purchase it here, http://www.myvitanet.com/mel3mg60cap.html

Disclaimer: I am a drug addict and am insane on many different levels. Do not listen to me or take anything I say seriously….after all, you are the internet.

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:51 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] melatonin

A couple of people have mentioned melatonin as a sleep aid. I’ve bought some before from here
http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-melatonin.asp
a site recommended to me by a friend, as it is the only melatonin he’s found that is not the homeopathic crap, which does nothing. That site is currently not selling it for some reason and I cannot find it anywhere else. Can anyone recommend a site which sells real melatonin (ie not homeopathic melatonin)?
Every shop and every other site I’ve seen only sells the homeopathic version.

Boris

From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] melatonin
Date: June 26, 2005 at 9:50:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A couple of people have mentioned melatonin as a sleep aid. I’ve bought some before from here
http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-melatonin.asp
a site recommended to me by a friend, as it is the only melatonin he’s found that is not the homeopathic crap, which does nothing. That site is currently not selling it for some reason and I cannot find it anywhere else. Can anyone recommend a site which sells real melatonin (ie not homeopathic melatonin)?
Every shop and every other site I’ve seen only sells the homeopathic version.

Boris

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: June 26, 2005 at 9:09:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s a cool sky pic!
-Keith

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 26, 2005 at 5:32:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ur a pretty resourceful cat. you can make it happen if you put your mind to it. There has got to be someone who will help you with that on the list or off. i know you’ll make it happen if that’s your destiny. just ask ur people!!! -m.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I guess it boils down to the fact that I personally don’t consider “dealer”
a dirty word in the slightest- it is someone who enables me to buy my
substances no matter what they are. In this regard, my dealers are more
friends, and that’s very cool.
SO PLEASE understand that I LIKE dealers no matter what, and in this
case the dealers are dealing positive light, love and energy. Nothing wrong
with that whatsoever- I just wish I could at THIS POINT figure out how to
cut out the middlemen and women and just do it myself with the opportunity
of calling for advice when needed the various sorts I know who might be able
to advise me.
It’s that simple.
With lots of love.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “tink”
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

Preston and all
Having been through the “correct treatment” in Kitts and then an
underground treatment, I have to say that I much prefered the latter.
I didn’t feel so -guinee pigged. I know that they have alot more
information now than when I first went through it , and that the
protocol is completely different, and I realize that the amassing of
information is incredibly important. I hope that it goes further and
wider, but I also have to say that my providers were fantastic and
nurturing and i know that i had a much better experience with them
there than had I been with someone who had a lesser understanding of
ibogaine or my addiction.
I understand the feeling of invasiveness, certainly, but calling them
dealers is dirty pool. I think that it’s a calling more than anything
else, and though it might not seem to be exactly what you might want,
they aren’t exactly pushing the shit on Ave D.
Having been given the opportunity to do it for a second time is like
being given a new lease on my life. I realize that you might have
particularly extenuating circumstances, given your chronic pain and
all that goes with having been through so much trauma to your body,
but aren’t these same providers the ones that are trying to figure out
some sort of ibogaine maintenance therapy to help you out, and help
keep the dilaudids at a more manageable level?
Having some seriously fucked up back issues and nerve damage and
feeling the full throttle of the pain that i actually am in has been
quite the adjustment, so i’m not speaking completely out of my ass
here, and I have to say that i don’t know how you do it. I’m amazed
at your fortitude and strength, and V deserves a gold medal for being
such an incredible support system for you, and much more.
I suppose my hackles went up when you called them dealers, and being
one to talk first and think later, i had to say something. Not
meaning to step on any toes, just venting a frustration at what i see
as a ridiculous issue.
I’m also not saying that you don’t appreciate your provider, just to
clarify. It just seems a little trite to be so bothered by people’s
concern for you and your health.
Love
tink

On 6/24/05, Eye of the Bhogi wrote:
> As my super-straight sister says to me too many times for comfort:
> “It must be hard being you!” Funny when people say that to each
> other, since all those esoteric teachings of us being all part of one
> Whole make the individual ego experiences of “I” and “You” somewhate
> dreamy veils of illusion. However temporarily the embodied brain
> allows a given soul-entity to wonder at such ephemeral notions of not
> being fragmented, still we carry these egos to function in this world.
>
> I remember, back in February, seeing the personage of Preston Peet
> rise painfully from his seat in front of us at COSM, regaled in
> downtown finery and cosmetic glow, but moving slow, leaning hard on
> the device that helped him walk. We hadn’t met yet, but I recognized
> who he was. And compassion — feeling someone else’s pain as not
> separate — welled up, while certain judgments culled reactively from
> his prolific writing ability drained away. I could hear/feel/sense it
> in my bones that E.T. voice going “oooucccch” empathetically and knew
> that whatever Ibogaine can do towards regenerating the soft tissues of
> corporeality, bones and metal plates are a different story.
>
> I agree, Preston, that meeting each other diffuses the abstract
> tension to conflicting ideas, and opens up more space for recognizing
> the heart behind the heat. I do wish you didn’t have to bang your
> pain meds to get relief, because it always sounds like once you move
> back into that it sets off another cycle. I do wish your body wasn’t
> suffering so…. I do wish… I do wish….
>
> Academics tend to set up these typologies — maybe categories aren’t
> always useful, but politically speaking, differentiating the TYPES of
> opiate dependants and intoxicant vacationers who would likely benefit
> from legal access to the Medicine might reduce the static between
> interest groups. We are all along a spectrum, of course, of varying
> needs…
>
> However, the ax you keep grinding on about what are the
> responsibilities of a provider is getting old. Providers do not seem
> to me AT ALL as if they are “dealers” — and I object to your
> slandering them in such a fashion out of personal pique at not getting
> to play the game according to your rules. If anything from the world
> of Babylon, they seem to me like a cross between pharmacists,
> nurse-practitioners, and psychedelic-therapeutic guides. Because they
> have to be practical about the limited distribution scope of their
> resources, don’t you think? It’s still a Schedule 1 offense you are
> asking someone else to risk, altruistic or not, with all the potential
> for a wonderful Civil Rights case or not, and there’s an awful lot of
> street junkies and the clinic-cuffed and Pharma-tricked out there
> needing a chance to get clean too.
>
> “Where did he get it???!?” someone I thought was pretty well superfly
> connected in the “psychedelic” world said to me back in November,
> three weeks into Jeff’s treatment, and all I could say was some
> mumbled grateful pranams to the underground where the African
> freedomroot travels on its new anti-addiction railroad. I hope to
> never lose that gratitude, even as all the players shine their
> headlights through these clouds of political pharmaceutical healing
> games.
>
> Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu…. May all beings in all the worlds be
> happy.
>
> xo rachy
>
>
>
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>

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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: June 26, 2005 at 2:31:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yehhh I saw the planets wot are gonna align last night and oh boy oh
boyyy was my Focea tickled pink!!!!
lmao
I a geek too tink!!!! I subscribed!! I’m a complete star freak!!!  I
saw a meteor the other night, was AWESOME and very very thrilling,
I’m always honoured to see rare events like that.  Must get me a
smellyscope!!! I mean tele….
VIVA LA FREAKS!!!
Kirk :o)
—- Original Message —-
From: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:19:52 -0400

Indeed it will be!!  There’s a map for the whole shebang if you go to
the space weather site, and a way to identify it all.  I’m not sure
about the aurora borealis watch for your area, though. It’s usually
in
the more Northern areas, but if you’re in Northern CA, well, maybe?
I also get the NASA list, which is seriously interesting if you’re as
big a freaky geek as I am….
I’ll send you more if you’d like
love
tink

On 6/25/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Sarah,
I love these types of phenomena, will they be visible in
middle/northern California?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; vox@mindvox.com; Anne Parfitt;
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: SpaceWeather. com <swlist@spaceweather.com>
Date: Jun 25, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Planets Align this Weekend
To: “SpaceWeather. com” <swlist@spaceweather.com>

Space Weather News for June 25, 2005
http://www.spaceweather.com

PLANETS ALIGN:  Step outside tonight at sunset and look west toward
the glow of the setting sun.  As soon as the sky gets dark, you’ll
see
three planets–Venus, Mercury and Saturn–gathered close together
not
far above the western horizon  It’s a beautiful alignment. You have
three chances to see them: June 25th, June 26th and June 27th.  A
clear view of the western horizon is key.

NOCTILUCENT CLOUDS:  While you’re out looking at the planets, be
alert
also for noctilucent clouds.  They’ve been sighted over Europe
and/or
Canada almost every day for the past two weeks. Noctilucent clouds
typically appear after sunset, glowing electric blue and
crisscrossed
by many fine ripples and waves.    Visit spaceweather.com to view
sample photos and to read about the mystery of this beautiful
phenomenon.

You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as:
tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=665828G&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to
leave-spaceweather-665828G@www.spaceweather2.com

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics
Date: June 26, 2005 at 1:38:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well we talked in the past a few times, preston. i talk to patrick k.
quite often. we be bros. im colton btw.. i kicked heroin (cold turkey)
last sept. been on the list for years and years now. im more of a
spectator. but i post here and there. posted alot more when i was kicking.
mostly dope sick rants.

i run dsskcorp.com/ibidem. its linked in mindvox under the culture section.

i think shes lovely as well. thank you for such a kind compliment =) a
great girl and a wonderful inspiration. she keeps things good. i am very
grateful.

but i hope all is well for everyone on the list and i think you are all
wonderful people and i am very happy to be apart of this.

keep everything solid. love to all.
c

she’s lovely, me.
😉
Who’s me, nuthra? Why can’t I come up with a name for this handle?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics

is this matthew?
no, its me….

who am i with?
muh lady.

n.

Is this Matthew, and who are you with?
She’s a sweetheart looker.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics

vainity fukn rocks!@#

c$jesschicago.jpg -> me and muh girl in chicago like a week ago
c$wtf.jpg -> i saw this sign and had to get my pic next to it

lubs yews!
n.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics
Date: June 25, 2005 at 10:51:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

she’s lovely, me.
😉
Who’s me, nuthra? Why can’t I come up with a name for this handle?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics

is this matthew?
no, its me….

who am i with?
muh lady.

n.

Is this Matthew, and who are you with?
She’s a sweetheart looker.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics

vainity fukn rocks!@#

c$jesschicago.jpg -> me and muh girl in chicago like a week ago
c$wtf.jpg -> i saw this sign and had to get my pic next to it

lubs yews!
n.

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From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (still OT) a couple photos
Date: June 25, 2005 at 10:20:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahhh well, that’s tough ya only got one chance!!!
and as for you n V, sweet :o)  There’s hope for me yet lol
Kirk
—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  (still OT) a couple photos
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:00:07 -0400

Kirk wrote >Oh so you saw my and Mathews photos and thought you poor
ugly
bastards<

You sent us a photo of you Capt. Kirk? I don’t remember seeing that.
I
remember Mathews, and thinking how good he looked for a junkie, but
don’t
recall seeing a Cpt. Kirk photo here.
And I think he liked the highboots/fishnets/clingywhitedress thing
Kirk. I
enjoy a lot the fact that after almost nine years I still find her
extremely
attractive and get very excited by her with litte to no trouble
whatsoever.
Many people have asked us if we still “do it” and I’m always amazed,
because
all I have to do is look over at her and then get confused as to how
they
can ask me at least such a question, considering who I’m with.
The fact that I’m with V is such a grounding part of my life. I
know
it’s risky putting so much of me into her, but I can’t help it, and
thanks
whatever powers that be, probably the very same ones which brought
ibogaine
into my life, for bringing her and I together, and for keeping us in
constant contact and touch until we could get to a point in our lives
where
it became possible for us to become more than just friends but
partners.
I’ve been lucky in that I’ve had a few very special relationships
with a
few different women in my life, most of whom I do not know the
whereabouts
of these days much to my chagrin, but every other relationship I
ended up
screwing up over my drug abuse getting in the way of a healthy or
sane
relationship after a while. This time however, I seem to have really
been
steered to the one person who makes me whole as I can possibly be I
think.
Even at our moments of stress, I never forget that I am one of the
luckiest
men on the planet.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 3:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos

Oh so you saw my and Mathews photos and thought you poor ugly
bastards I
hope you get plastic surgery soon???????????? Huh??
lOl well mathew maybe not but  me yehhhhh…………..and
BTW  wheres your mug shot???? And you others…………….
Not being pushy or disrespecting your wish to remain physically
anonymous
bt
heyyyy Ya bunchah woosiesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
All in good fun
Kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx love u all

—–Original Message—–
From: SKALD VANASATRU [mailto:CoyDogsRock@webtv.net]
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 7:21 a.m.
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos

Oh Preston, I just saw the photos you lucky, lucky man!
TIGERRIDER

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics
Date: June 25, 2005 at 7:49:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

is this matthew?
no, its me….

who am i with?
muh lady.

n.

Is this Matthew, and who are you with?
She’s a sweetheart looker.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics

vainity fukn rocks!@#

c$jesschicago.jpg -> me and muh girl in chicago like a week ago
c$wtf.jpg -> i saw this sign and had to get my pic next to it

lubs yews!
n.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 25, 2005 at 6:10:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/25/05 5:13:44 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

SO PLEASE understand that I LIKE dealers no matter what, and in this
case the dealers are dealing positive light, love and energy. Nothing wrong
with that whatsoever- I just wish I could at THIS POINT figure out how
to cut out the middlemen and women and just do it myself with the opportunity
of calling for advice when needed the various sorts I know who might be
able to advise me.

Hi Preston,

Canada is to your north and mexico is to your south.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I anticipate you can figure out the rest.  Visit a friendly country.  Stay a
while.

Howard

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 25, 2005 at 5:40:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Didn’t mean to preach to the choir…and I often only open my mouth to
switch feet.  I know you have more contact and experience, and I
humbly defer.
love
tink

On 6/25/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I’m not begruding anyone’s concern for my wellbeing, but I also, along with
other significant people I myself have spoken to who will remain nameless
feel there’s nothing wrong with obtaining ibogaine and letting it go at
that, without anyone else’s energy interceding. Again, I’m not cutting down
anyone for their care and conern, I love them for it. But jimmy cricket,
I’ve got other ideas too.
😉

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

Preston and all
Having been through the “correct treatment” in Kitts and then an
underground treatment, I have to say that I much prefered the latter.
I didn’t feel so -guinee pigged.  I know that they have alot more
information now than when I first went through it , and that the
protocol is completely different, and I realize that the amassing of
information is incredibly important.  I hope that it goes further and
wider, but I also have to say that my providers were fantastic and
nurturing and i know that i had a much better experience with them
there than had I been with someone who had a lesser understanding of
ibogaine or my addiction.
I understand the feeling of invasiveness, certainly, but calling them
dealers is dirty pool.  I think that it’s a calling more than anything
else, and though it might not seem to be exactly what you might want,
they aren’t exactly pushing the shit on Ave D.
Having been given the opportunity to do it for a second time is like
being given a new lease on my life.  I realize that you might have
particularly extenuating circumstances, given your chronic pain and
all that goes with having been through so much trauma to your body,
but aren’t these same providers the ones that are trying to figure out
some sort of ibogaine maintenance therapy to help you out, and help
keep the dilaudids at a more manageable level?
Having some seriously fucked up back issues and nerve damage and
feeling the full throttle of the pain that i actually am in has been
quite the adjustment, so i’m not speaking completely out of my ass
here, and I have to say that i don’t know how you do it.  I’m amazed
at your fortitude and strength, and V deserves a gold medal for being
such an incredible support system for you, and much more.
I suppose my hackles went up when you called them dealers, and being
one to talk first and think later, i had to say something.  Not
meaning to step on any toes, just venting a frustration at what i see
as a ridiculous issue.
I’m also not saying that you don’t appreciate your provider, just to
clarify.  It just seems a little trite to be so bothered by people’s
concern for you and your health.
Love
tink

On 6/24/05, Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
As my super-straight sister says to me too many times for comfort:
“It must be hard being you!”  Funny when people say that to each
other, since all those esoteric teachings of us being all part of one
Whole make the individual ego experiences of “I” and “You” somewhate
dreamy veils of illusion.  However temporarily the embodied brain
allows a given soul-entity to wonder at such ephemeral notions of not
being fragmented, still we carry these egos to function in this world.

I remember, back in February, seeing the personage of Preston Peet
rise painfully from his seat in front of us at COSM, regaled in
downtown finery and cosmetic glow, but moving slow, leaning hard on
the device that helped him walk.  We hadn’t met yet, but I recognized
who he was.  And compassion — feeling someone else’s pain as not
separate — welled up, while certain judgments culled reactively from
his prolific writing ability drained away.  I could hear/feel/sense it
in my bones that E.T. voice going “oooucccch” empathetically and knew
that whatever Ibogaine can do towards regenerating the soft tissues of
corporeality, bones and metal plates are a different story.

I agree, Preston, that meeting each other diffuses the abstract
tension to conflicting ideas, and opens up more space for recognizing
the heart behind the heat.  I do wish you didn’t have to bang your
pain meds to get relief, because it always sounds like once you move
back into that it sets off another cycle.  I do wish your body wasn’t
suffering so…. I do wish… I do wish….

Academics tend to set up these typologies — maybe categories aren’t
always useful, but politically speaking, differentiating the TYPES of
opiate dependants and intoxicant vacationers who would likely benefit
from legal access to the Medicine might reduce the static between
interest groups.  We are all along a spectrum, of course, of varying
needs…

However, the ax you keep grinding on about what are the
responsibilities of a provider is getting old.  Providers do not seem
to me AT ALL as if they are “dealers” — and I object to your
slandering them in such a fashion out of personal pique at not getting
to play the game according to your rules.  If anything from the world
of Babylon, they seem to me like a cross between pharmacists,
nurse-practitioners, and psychedelic-therapeutic guides.  Because they
have to be practical about the limited distribution scope of their
resources, don’t you think?  It’s still a Schedule 1 offense you are
asking someone else to risk, altruistic or not, with all the potential
for a wonderful Civil Rights case or not, and there’s an awful lot of
street junkies and the clinic-cuffed and Pharma-tricked out there
needing a chance to get clean too.

“Where did he get it???!?” someone I thought was pretty well superfly
connected in the “psychedelic” world said to me back in November,
three weeks into Jeff’s  treatment, and all I could say was some
mumbled grateful pranams to the underground where the African
freedomroot travels on its new anti-addiction railroad.  I hope to
never lose that gratitude, even as all the players shine their
headlights through these clouds of political pharmaceutical healing
games.

Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu…. May all beings in all the worlds be
happy.

xo rachy

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 25, 2005 at 5:21:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s a funny occurrence….Just now I was out back smoking a cig with my friend and we notice a beautiful bush growing along a fence in the alley behind our work, It has large orange bell like blossoms,” That is probably the same as Honeysuckle says my friend, lets see if there’s honey in the bottom of those flowers.”
“Okay.” I say…..after finding out the sap in the bottom of the flowers tasted like crud, we were informed about five minutes ago that we had ingested Trumpet Vine, it is listed on the internet as toxic.

hmm…I’m not too thrilled at this prospect, but I feel fine at 5+ minutes.

-Keith

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics
Date: June 25, 2005 at 5:17:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is this Matthew, and who are you with?
She’s a sweetheart looker.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics

vainity fukn rocks!@#

c$jesschicago.jpg -> me and muh girl in chicago like a week ago
c$wtf.jpg -> i saw this sign and had to get my pic next to it

lubs yews!
n.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 25, 2005 at 5:15:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not begruding anyone’s concern for my wellbeing, but I also, along with other significant people I myself have spoken to who will remain nameless feel there’s nothing wrong with obtaining ibogaine and letting it go at that, without anyone else’s energy interceding. Again, I’m not cutting down anyone for their care and conern, I love them for it. But jimmy cricket, I’ve got other ideas too.
😉

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

Preston and all
Having been through the “correct treatment” in Kitts and then an
underground treatment, I have to say that I much prefered the latter.
I didn’t feel so -guinee pigged.  I know that they have alot more
information now than when I first went through it , and that the
protocol is completely different, and I realize that the amassing of
information is incredibly important.  I hope that it goes further and
wider, but I also have to say that my providers were fantastic and
nurturing and i know that i had a much better experience with them
there than had I been with someone who had a lesser understanding of
ibogaine or my addiction.
I understand the feeling of invasiveness, certainly, but calling them
dealers is dirty pool.  I think that it’s a calling more than anything
else, and though it might not seem to be exactly what you might want,
they aren’t exactly pushing the shit on Ave D.
Having been given the opportunity to do it for a second time is like
being given a new lease on my life.  I realize that you might have
particularly extenuating circumstances, given your chronic pain and
all that goes with having been through so much trauma to your body,
but aren’t these same providers the ones that are trying to figure out
some sort of ibogaine maintenance therapy to help you out, and help
keep the dilaudids at a more manageable level?
Having some seriously fucked up back issues and nerve damage and
feeling the full throttle of the pain that i actually am in has been
quite the adjustment, so i’m not speaking completely out of my ass
here, and I have to say that i don’t know how you do it.  I’m amazed
at your fortitude and strength, and V deserves a gold medal for being
such an incredible support system for you, and much more.
I suppose my hackles went up when you called them dealers, and being
one to talk first and think later, i had to say something.  Not
meaning to step on any toes, just venting a frustration at what i see
as a ridiculous issue.
I’m also not saying that you don’t appreciate your provider, just to
clarify.  It just seems a little trite to be so bothered by people’s
concern for you and your health.
Love
tink

On 6/24/05, Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
As my super-straight sister says to me too many times for comfort:
“It must be hard being you!”  Funny when people say that to each
other, since all those esoteric teachings of us being all part of one
Whole make the individual ego experiences of “I” and “You” somewhate
dreamy veils of illusion.  However temporarily the embodied brain
allows a given soul-entity to wonder at such ephemeral notions of not
being fragmented, still we carry these egos to function in this world.

I remember, back in February, seeing the personage of Preston Peet
rise painfully from his seat in front of us at COSM, regaled in
downtown finery and cosmetic glow, but moving slow, leaning hard on
the device that helped him walk.  We hadn’t met yet, but I recognized
who he was.  And compassion — feeling someone else’s pain as not
separate — welled up, while certain judgments culled reactively from
his prolific writing ability drained away.  I could hear/feel/sense it
in my bones that E.T. voice going “oooucccch” empathetically and knew
that whatever Ibogaine can do towards regenerating the soft tissues of
corporeality, bones and metal plates are a different story.

I agree, Preston, that meeting each other diffuses the abstract
tension to conflicting ideas, and opens up more space for recognizing
the heart behind the heat.  I do wish you didn’t have to bang your
pain meds to get relief, because it always sounds like once you move
back into that it sets off another cycle.  I do wish your body wasn’t
suffering so…. I do wish… I do wish….

Academics tend to set up these typologies — maybe categories aren’t
always useful, but politically speaking, differentiating the TYPES of
opiate dependants and intoxicant vacationers who would likely benefit
from legal access to the Medicine might reduce the static between
interest groups.  We are all along a spectrum, of course, of varying
needs…

However, the ax you keep grinding on about what are the
responsibilities of a provider is getting old.  Providers do not seem
to me AT ALL as if they are “dealers” — and I object to your
slandering them in such a fashion out of personal pique at not getting
to play the game according to your rules.  If anything from the world
of Babylon, they seem to me like a cross between pharmacists,
nurse-practitioners, and psychedelic-therapeutic guides.  Because they
have to be practical about the limited distribution scope of their
resources, don’t you think?  It’s still a Schedule 1 offense you are
asking someone else to risk, altruistic or not, with all the potential
for a wonderful Civil Rights case or not, and there’s an awful lot of
street junkies and the clinic-cuffed and Pharma-tricked out there
needing a chance to get clean too.

“Where did he get it???!?” someone I thought was pretty well superfly
connected in the “psychedelic” world said to me back in November,
three weeks into Jeff’s  treatment, and all I could say was some
mumbled grateful pranams to the underground where the African
freedomroot travels on its new anti-addiction railroad.  I hope to
never lose that gratitude, even as all the players shine their
headlights through these clouds of political pharmaceutical healing
games.

Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu…. May all beings in all the worlds be happy.

xo rachy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 25, 2005 at 5:13:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess it boils down to the fact that I personally don’t consider “dealer” a dirty word in the slightest- it is someone who enables me to buy my substances no matter what they are. In this regard, my dealers are more friends, and that’s very cool.
SO PLEASE understand that I LIKE dealers no matter what, and in this case the dealers are dealing positive light, love and energy. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever- I just wish I could at THIS POINT figure out how to cut out the middlemen and women and just do it myself with the opportunity of calling for advice when needed the various sorts I know who might be able to advise me.
It’s that simple.
With lots of love.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

Preston and all
Having been through the “correct treatment” in Kitts and then an
underground treatment, I have to say that I much prefered the latter.
I didn’t feel so -guinee pigged.  I know that they have alot more
information now than when I first went through it , and that the
protocol is completely different, and I realize that the amassing of
information is incredibly important.  I hope that it goes further and
wider, but I also have to say that my providers were fantastic and
nurturing and i know that i had a much better experience with them
there than had I been with someone who had a lesser understanding of
ibogaine or my addiction.
I understand the feeling of invasiveness, certainly, but calling them
dealers is dirty pool.  I think that it’s a calling more than anything
else, and though it might not seem to be exactly what you might want,
they aren’t exactly pushing the shit on Ave D.
Having been given the opportunity to do it for a second time is like
being given a new lease on my life.  I realize that you might have
particularly extenuating circumstances, given your chronic pain and
all that goes with having been through so much trauma to your body,
but aren’t these same providers the ones that are trying to figure out
some sort of ibogaine maintenance therapy to help you out, and help
keep the dilaudids at a more manageable level?
Having some seriously fucked up back issues and nerve damage and
feeling the full throttle of the pain that i actually am in has been
quite the adjustment, so i’m not speaking completely out of my ass
here, and I have to say that i don’t know how you do it.  I’m amazed
at your fortitude and strength, and V deserves a gold medal for being
such an incredible support system for you, and much more.
I suppose my hackles went up when you called them dealers, and being
one to talk first and think later, i had to say something.  Not
meaning to step on any toes, just venting a frustration at what i see
as a ridiculous issue.
I’m also not saying that you don’t appreciate your provider, just to
clarify.  It just seems a little trite to be so bothered by people’s
concern for you and your health.
Love
tink

On 6/24/05, Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
As my super-straight sister says to me too many times for comfort:
“It must be hard being you!”  Funny when people say that to each
other, since all those esoteric teachings of us being all part of one
Whole make the individual ego experiences of “I” and “You” somewhate
dreamy veils of illusion.  However temporarily the embodied brain
allows a given soul-entity to wonder at such ephemeral notions of not
being fragmented, still we carry these egos to function in this world.

I remember, back in February, seeing the personage of Preston Peet
rise painfully from his seat in front of us at COSM, regaled in
downtown finery and cosmetic glow, but moving slow, leaning hard on
the device that helped him walk.  We hadn’t met yet, but I recognized
who he was.  And compassion — feeling someone else’s pain as not
separate — welled up, while certain judgments culled reactively from
his prolific writing ability drained away.  I could hear/feel/sense it
in my bones that E.T. voice going “oooucccch” empathetically and knew
that whatever Ibogaine can do towards regenerating the soft tissues of
corporeality, bones and metal plates are a different story.

I agree, Preston, that meeting each other diffuses the abstract
tension to conflicting ideas, and opens up more space for recognizing
the heart behind the heat.  I do wish you didn’t have to bang your
pain meds to get relief, because it always sounds like once you move
back into that it sets off another cycle.  I do wish your body wasn’t
suffering so…. I do wish… I do wish….

Academics tend to set up these typologies — maybe categories aren’t
always useful, but politically speaking, differentiating the TYPES of
opiate dependants and intoxicant vacationers who would likely benefit
from legal access to the Medicine might reduce the static between
interest groups.  We are all along a spectrum, of course, of varying
needs…

However, the ax you keep grinding on about what are the
responsibilities of a provider is getting old.  Providers do not seem
to me AT ALL as if they are “dealers” — and I object to your
slandering them in such a fashion out of personal pique at not getting
to play the game according to your rules.  If anything from the world
of Babylon, they seem to me like a cross between pharmacists,
nurse-practitioners, and psychedelic-therapeutic guides.  Because they
have to be practical about the limited distribution scope of their
resources, don’t you think?  It’s still a Schedule 1 offense you are
asking someone else to risk, altruistic or not, with all the potential
for a wonderful Civil Rights case or not, and there’s an awful lot of
street junkies and the clinic-cuffed and Pharma-tricked out there
needing a chance to get clean too.

“Where did he get it???!?” someone I thought was pretty well superfly
connected in the “psychedelic” world said to me back in November,
three weeks into Jeff’s  treatment, and all I could say was some
mumbled grateful pranams to the underground where the African
freedomroot travels on its new anti-addiction railroad.  I hope to
never lose that gratitude, even as all the players shine their
headlights through these clouds of political pharmaceutical healing
games.

Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu…. May all beings in all the worlds be happy.

xo rachy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) in the spirit of posting pics
Date: June 25, 2005 at 4:18:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

vainity fukn rocks!@#

c$jesschicago.jpg -> me and muh girl in chicago like a week ago
c$wtf.jpg -> i saw this sign and had to get my pic next to it

lubs yews!
n.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] strange stuff
Date: June 25, 2005 at 4:14:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

http://www.quantumfuture.net/store/downloads.php

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 25, 2005 at 2:48:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston and all
Having been through the “correct treatment” in Kitts and then an
underground treatment, I have to say that I much prefered the latter.
I didn’t feel so -guinee pigged.  I know that they have alot more
information now than when I first went through it , and that the
protocol is completely different, and I realize that the amassing of
information is incredibly important.  I hope that it goes further and
wider, but I also have to say that my providers were fantastic and
nurturing and i know that i had a much better experience with them
there than had I been with someone who had a lesser understanding of
ibogaine or my addiction.
I understand the feeling of invasiveness, certainly, but calling them
dealers is dirty pool.  I think that it’s a calling more than anything
else, and though it might not seem to be exactly what you might want,
they aren’t exactly pushing the shit on Ave D.
Having been given the opportunity to do it for a second time is like
being given a new lease on my life.  I realize that you might have
particularly extenuating circumstances, given your chronic pain and
all that goes with having been through so much trauma to your body,
but aren’t these same providers the ones that are trying to figure out
some sort of ibogaine maintenance therapy to help you out, and help
keep the dilaudids at a more manageable level?
Having some seriously fucked up back issues and nerve damage and
feeling the full throttle of the pain that i actually am in has been
quite the adjustment, so i’m not speaking completely out of my ass
here, and I have to say that i don’t know how you do it.  I’m amazed
at your fortitude and strength, and V deserves a gold medal for being
such an incredible support system for you, and much more.
I suppose my hackles went up when you called them dealers, and being
one to talk first and think later, i had to say something.  Not
meaning to step on any toes, just venting a frustration at what i see
as a ridiculous issue.
I’m also not saying that you don’t appreciate your provider, just to
clarify.  It just seems a little trite to be so bothered by people’s
concern for you and your health.
Love
tink

On 6/24/05, Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
As my super-straight sister says to me too many times for comfort:
“It must be hard being you!”  Funny when people say that to each
other, since all those esoteric teachings of us being all part of one
Whole make the individual ego experiences of “I” and “You” somewhate
dreamy veils of illusion.  However temporarily the embodied brain
allows a given soul-entity to wonder at such ephemeral notions of not
being fragmented, still we carry these egos to function in this world.

I remember, back in February, seeing the personage of Preston Peet
rise painfully from his seat in front of us at COSM, regaled in
downtown finery and cosmetic glow, but moving slow, leaning hard on
the device that helped him walk.  We hadn’t met yet, but I recognized
who he was.  And compassion — feeling someone else’s pain as not
separate — welled up, while certain judgments culled reactively from
his prolific writing ability drained away.  I could hear/feel/sense it
in my bones that E.T. voice going “oooucccch” empathetically and knew
that whatever Ibogaine can do towards regenerating the soft tissues of
corporeality, bones and metal plates are a different story.

I agree, Preston, that meeting each other diffuses the abstract
tension to conflicting ideas, and opens up more space for recognizing
the heart behind the heat.  I do wish you didn’t have to bang your
pain meds to get relief, because it always sounds like once you move
back into that it sets off another cycle.  I do wish your body wasn’t
suffering so…. I do wish… I do wish….

Academics tend to set up these typologies — maybe categories aren’t
always useful, but politically speaking, differentiating the TYPES of
opiate dependants and intoxicant vacationers who would likely benefit
from legal access to the Medicine might reduce the static between
interest groups.  We are all along a spectrum, of course, of varying
needs…

However, the ax you keep grinding on about what are the
responsibilities of a provider is getting old.  Providers do not seem
to me AT ALL as if they are “dealers” — and I object to your
slandering them in such a fashion out of personal pique at not getting
to play the game according to your rules.  If anything from the world
of Babylon, they seem to me like a cross between pharmacists,
nurse-practitioners, and psychedelic-therapeutic guides.  Because they
have to be practical about the limited distribution scope of their
resources, don’t you think?  It’s still a Schedule 1 offense you are
asking someone else to risk, altruistic or not, with all the potential
for a wonderful Civil Rights case or not, and there’s an awful lot of
street junkies and the clinic-cuffed and Pharma-tricked out there
needing a chance to get clean too.

“Where did he get it???!?” someone I thought was pretty well superfly
connected in the “psychedelic” world said to me back in November,
three weeks into Jeff’s  treatment, and all I could say was some
mumbled grateful pranams to the underground where the African
freedomroot travels on its new anti-addiction railroad.  I hope to
never lose that gratitude, even as all the players shine their
headlights through these clouds of political pharmaceutical healing
games.

Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu…. May all beings in all the worlds be happy.

xo rachy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: June 25, 2005 at 2:28:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes please! I went to the site and the noctilucent clouds were tripalicious! I probably can’t see the clouds from here but the planets will be cool too.

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend

Indeed it will be!!  There’s a map for the whole shebang if you go to
the space weather site, and a way to identify it all.  I’m not sure
about the aurora borealis watch for your area, though. It’s usually in
the more Northern areas, but if you’re in Northern CA, well, maybe?
I also get the NASA list, which is seriously interesting if you’re as
big a freaky geek as I am….
I’ll send you more if you’d like
love
tink

On 6/25/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Sarah,
I love these types of phenomena, will they be visible in middle/northern California?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; vox@mindvox.com; Anne Parfitt;
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: SpaceWeather. com <swlist@spaceweather.com>
Date: Jun 25, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Planets Align this Weekend
To: “SpaceWeather. com” <swlist@spaceweather.com>

Space Weather News for June 25, 2005
http://www.spaceweather.com

PLANETS ALIGN:  Step outside tonight at sunset and look west toward
the glow of the setting sun.  As soon as the sky gets dark, you’ll see
three planets–Venus, Mercury and Saturn–gathered close together not
far above the western horizon  It’s a beautiful alignment. You have
three chances to see them: June 25th, June 26th and June 27th.  A
clear view of the western horizon is key.

NOCTILUCENT CLOUDS:  While you’re out looking at the planets, be alert
also for noctilucent clouds.  They’ve been sighted over Europe and/or
Canada almost every day for the past two weeks. Noctilucent clouds
typically appear after sunset, glowing electric blue and crisscrossed
by many fine ripples and waves.    Visit spaceweather.com to view
sample photos and to read about the mystery of this beautiful
phenomenon.

You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=665828G&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-665828G@www.spaceweather2.com

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: June 25, 2005 at 2:19:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Indeed it will be!!  There’s a map for the whole shebang if you go to
the space weather site, and a way to identify it all.  I’m not sure
about the aurora borealis watch for your area, though. It’s usually in
the more Northern areas, but if you’re in Northern CA, well, maybe?
I also get the NASA list, which is seriously interesting if you’re as
big a freaky geek as I am….
I’ll send you more if you’d like
love
tink

On 6/25/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Sarah,
I love these types of phenomena, will they be visible in middle/northern California?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; vox@mindvox.com; Anne Parfitt;
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: SpaceWeather. com <swlist@spaceweather.com>
Date: Jun 25, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Planets Align this Weekend
To: “SpaceWeather. com” <swlist@spaceweather.com>

Space Weather News for June 25, 2005
http://www.spaceweather.com

PLANETS ALIGN:  Step outside tonight at sunset and look west toward
the glow of the setting sun.  As soon as the sky gets dark, you’ll see
three planets–Venus, Mercury and Saturn–gathered close together not
far above the western horizon  It’s a beautiful alignment. You have
three chances to see them: June 25th, June 26th and June 27th.  A
clear view of the western horizon is key.

NOCTILUCENT CLOUDS:  While you’re out looking at the planets, be alert
also for noctilucent clouds.  They’ve been sighted over Europe and/or
Canada almost every day for the past two weeks. Noctilucent clouds
typically appear after sunset, glowing electric blue and crisscrossed
by many fine ripples and waves.    Visit spaceweather.com to view
sample photos and to read about the mystery of this beautiful
phenomenon.

You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=665828G&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-665828G@www.spaceweather2.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: June 25, 2005 at 2:11:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sarah,
I love these types of phenomena, will they be visible in middle/northern California?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:06 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; vox@mindvox.com; Anne Parfitt;
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: SpaceWeather. com <swlist@spaceweather.com>
Date: Jun 25, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Planets Align this Weekend
To: “SpaceWeather. com” <swlist@spaceweather.com>

Space Weather News for June 25, 2005
http://www.spaceweather.com

PLANETS ALIGN:  Step outside tonight at sunset and look west toward
the glow of the setting sun.  As soon as the sky gets dark, you’ll see
three planets–Venus, Mercury and Saturn–gathered close together not
far above the western horizon  It’s a beautiful alignment. You have
three chances to see them: June 25th, June 26th and June 27th.  A
clear view of the western horizon is key.

NOCTILUCENT CLOUDS:  While you’re out looking at the planets, be alert
also for noctilucent clouds.  They’ve been sighted over Europe and/or
Canada almost every day for the past two weeks. Noctilucent clouds
typically appear after sunset, glowing electric blue and crisscrossed
by many fine ripples and waves.    Visit spaceweather.com to view
sample photos and to read about the mystery of this beautiful
phenomenon.

You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=665828G&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-665828G@www.spaceweather2.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Planets Align this Weekend
Date: June 25, 2005 at 2:06:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, Anne Parfitt <anne@gmavt.net>, “BiscuitBoy714@aol.com” <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: SpaceWeather. com <swlist@spaceweather.com>
Date: Jun 25, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Planets Align this Weekend
To: “SpaceWeather. com” <swlist@spaceweather.com>

Space Weather News for June 25, 2005
http://www.spaceweather.com

PLANETS ALIGN:  Step outside tonight at sunset and look west toward
the glow of the setting sun.  As soon as the sky gets dark, you’ll see
three planets–Venus, Mercury and Saturn–gathered close together not
far above the western horizon  It’s a beautiful alignment. You have
three chances to see them: June 25th, June 26th and June 27th.  A
clear view of the western horizon is key.

NOCTILUCENT CLOUDS:  While you’re out looking at the planets, be alert
also for noctilucent clouds.  They’ve been sighted over Europe and/or
Canada almost every day for the past two weeks. Noctilucent clouds
typically appear after sunset, glowing electric blue and crisscrossed
by many fine ripples and waves.    Visit spaceweather.com to view
sample photos and to read about the mystery of this beautiful
phenomenon.

You are currently subscribed to spaceweather as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://www.spaceweather2.com/u?id=665828G&n=T&l=spaceweather
or send a blank email to leave-spaceweather-665828G@www.spaceweather2.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 25, 2005 at 12:32:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nettle contains estrogen analogue(s), so use by men should receive
extra consideration. The estrogen analogue in soybeans/tofu has
been linked to doubled rates of dementia in older men. Nettle seems
to be in use for treatment of prostate enlargement, although higher
estrogen levels can also be a cause of prostate enlargement. Not a
simple subject!

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:47:13 -0700 Boris <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
wrote:
It appears to be an Australian thing – I just put “horseradish
hayfever”
into google and the first three sites that came up were all
Australian.
http://www.naturesown.com.au/hi-hayfever.php

have not tried the nettle..

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 26 June 2005 1:00 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!

Thank you, Boris!
I iddn’t know they made hosre radish tablets… Have you tried
the
stinging nettle?
love
tink
On 6/25/05, Boris <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Hey tink, one more suggestion for the allergy – I used to get
hayfever
pretty bad and found horseradish tablets helped at the time.
But if
you
get that sort of thing often, I found I much improved when I
started
doing tai chi.

Cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:46 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!

I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far,
and I
don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as
though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment.  I
can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy
ibogachoo
thingy any more.  This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s
going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it.  I have a
constant
head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs
Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in

it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with
restlessness
as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin,
seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out

the
hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox
off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal pain
Date: June 25, 2005 at 12:14:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Neurontin (gabapentin) is prescribed for pain management in
general, and I have heard it’s easy to get at at least one
addiction treatment center. Some find it uncomfortable at higher
doses that are normally used. I know Brett on this list has no
affinity for it whatsoever 🙂 Low doses (300-400 mg) feel rather
different/subtle, and before bed can enable a very restful sleep.
It is also used as a mood stabiliser.

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:02:43 -0700 “VanAllen, Keith G.”
<VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Hello All,

Does anyone have any suggestions for withdrawal pain? Is the pain
actual physical damage that has to heal over time?
I won’t bore anyone with a list of complaint’s but any thoughts
would be nice.

-Keith

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——-=[\
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——-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Withdrawal pain
Date: June 25, 2005 at 12:02:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello All,

Does anyone have any suggestions for withdrawal pain? Is the pain actual physical damage that has to heal over time?
I won’t bore anyone with a list of complaint’s but any thoughts would be nice.

-Keith

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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 25, 2005 at 11:47:13 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It appears to be an Australian thing – I just put “horseradish hayfever”
into google and the first three sites that came up were all Australian.
http://www.naturesown.com.au/hi-hayfever.php

have not tried the nettle..

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 26 June 2005 1:00 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!

Thank you, Boris!
I iddn’t know they made hosre radish tablets… Have you tried the
stinging nettle?
love
tink
On 6/25/05, Boris <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Hey tink, one more suggestion for the allergy – I used to get
hayfever
pretty bad and found horseradish tablets helped at the time. But if
you
get that sort of thing often, I found I much improved when I started
doing tai chi.

Cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:46 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!

I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far, and I
don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as
though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment.  I can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy
ibogachoo
thingy any more.  This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it.  I have a constant
head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with restlessness
as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin, seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out the
hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 25, 2005 at 10:59:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you, Boris!
I iddn’t know they made hosre radish tablets… Have you tried the
stinging nettle?
love
tink
On 6/25/05, Boris <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Hey tink, one more suggestion for the allergy – I used to get hayfever
pretty bad and found horseradish tablets helped at the time. But if you
get that sort of thing often, I found I much improved when I started
doing tai chi.

Cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:46 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!

I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far, and I don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment.  I can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy ibogachoo
thingy any more.  This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it.  I have a constant head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with restlessness as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin, seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out the hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers : help i’m on the abyss
Date: June 25, 2005 at 10:46:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rach, you and Jeff have been so much support for me. Thanx a lot, I really appreciate what you said. I think I’ll try and find a karate class that will let me in. I won’t have to start over but I know I can’t remember all those kata’s. Sparring techniques and epon kumata I remember. I think I want to learn white crane better this time. I’m afraid if I get laid I’ll lose my mind. Maybe later, aaaaaaaaaaa much later.  Love and one hits        Randy

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 25, 2005 at 10:03:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i think you might be onto something with ur sawdust theory.

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
thank you for all the replies! can´t reach him at the moment but will
forward everything.

again i want to say it was only an extremly small amount (i was
present).

before i had my own major ibo trip i once ate a few spoons of
unconcentrated rootbark and didn´t feel anything except that i had to
puke. now when i taste only a tiny tiny bit of HCl or even rootbark i
immediately feel a little rush going through my body and brain, like a
sense of recognition.

i don´t know if my friends reaction was due to the alkaloids or iboga
spirit or if the same would have happend if he had chewed on some
sawdust.

-ekki

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online & more. Check it out!

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 25, 2005 at 9:43:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you for all the replies! can´t reach him at the moment but will forward everything.

again i want to say it was only an extremly small amount (i was present).

before i had my own major ibo trip i once ate a few spoons of unconcentrated rootbark and didn´t feel anything except that i had to puke. now when i taste only a tiny tiny bit of HCl or even rootbark i immediately feel a little rush going through my body and brain, like a sense of recognition.

i don´t know if my friends reaction was due to the alkaloids or iboga spirit or if the same would have happend if he had chewed on some sawdust.

-ekki

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho
Date: June 25, 2005 at 8:47:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

when you are with a good provider they will help you to change that panic
attack state of mind ,just by talking and breathing exercise,
if that doesn’t help a valium just knocks you out of that state of mind
for sure,
but if you have a  good provider he will get into that fear while you
visualize the source of your fears and change that panic attack to a learning
experience and even realizing what is the best way  to gain more balance
within.
which can be another type of treatment then psychedelics substances.

Starting a trip when you know that the person  with you has an experience
Guiding people is just more relaxing for most people.

And many people come into a bitching state of mind few days after the trip
(Iboga) but feel nice again with mushrooms.
Bitching about…..is the source of their problems and they got to deal
with what
Is not so easy for them, be what ever it is they bitch about(the
reflection). At the same time they feel the glow, like mood swings within
few hours. This is when music can help alot.

Sara

As someone already said, sounds like a panic attack.. I had one while on
psilocybin mushrooms about 10 years ago and earned myself a nice dose of
PTSD. Took about 5 years to get through that and still don’t feel
completely right.

After that trip I was ok for about 2 months, took acid 3 days later even
(hey, it was new years eve, I wasn’t gonna miss out). Then it hit me and
I couldn’t leave my room for 2 weeks, convinced I had lost my mind.
When it first hit me (“fuck! Flash back! Schizophrenia! I am going to
bad trip forever! Why is God punishing me??!?!”), I asked my parents to
call an ambulance to take me somewhere padded with strong sedatives (
*stunned look* “What? Ambulance? But are you hurting somewhere? Why did
you eat poisonous mushrooms?”). During the trip I went to a doctor and
was given Valium and that sorted me out at the time. It was at a folk
music festival, so luckily there was a doctor in the emergency tent
there.

Anyway, this kind of experience can have a serious long term fallout.
You friend should get professional help.

Cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 1:00 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga

a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew
on
it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
doesn´t take any drugs.

since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i don´t
think
it´s the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
shingles, pain in his nerves etc.

he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didn´t knew, and he
probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. it´s just
that
he feels so bad he says it´s life threatening. he got some valium for
emergency cases.

he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
with it´s anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
regarding his health with great caution and wouldn´t just buy some
iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
taste.

so any comments or suggestions?

ekki

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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] At the end of the rainbow
Date: June 25, 2005 at 8:21:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great piece, which I forwarded to my dj girlfriend’s email box, as I
thought she’d appreciate your article.
I think the whole dancing thing and community is something that might
be helpful to some (at least those able to dance for hours on end until
reaching trance state, something very difficult for me with back and leg
and stomach problems- yet there are times when I’ll hobble around the dance floor still, braced upon my cane, basically just swaying to the music if it’s something I really love of that I feel moves me, excusing the pun of
course), and I am very supportive of this idea and activity.

Thanks and yep, it can be extremely therapeutic. I know for Mandy its one of her favourite ways to get her mind off all the bullshit, and for me going to trance parties was a big part of my own recovery (from the bad trip crap that I just mentioned in another post). Exactly as you said – dancing for hours and just totally getting absorbed in the experience of pulsating whooshing sound and definitely the community feel too. The people I met in that scene changed my life for the better, and I hear the same sentiment from so many people who first come into the scene. And you don’t necessarily have to jump around for hours. I’ve seen people on the dancefloor in wheelchairs, just dancing with their hands, huge grins on their faces. Others just sit at the back with a beer or a joint or take the opportunity to go for a bushwalk and just spend some time with friends.
In the psy trance party scene the focus has always been on psychedelics and positive “spiritual” drug experience, being outdoors, connecting with nature, not day to day self abuse (although that element is there also, the drug aspect attracts that). For me I now realize I was inadvertently self medicating with ecstacy, which I found out some time later has been shown to be helpful in treating PTSD.
I should say the psy trance scene is totally apart from “raves” here in Australia. Don’t know what its like in the US. Different people, different music, different locations (outdoors! In the summer anyway).

What I am learning at the moment is that for different people recovering from addiction there are different paths to be taken, there is no set way to go to reach higher ground (no pun intended). In my efforts to help Mandy I have often found myself saying “why don’t you do this” and “that person does that”… But I found I need to take a bit of a step back and let her do it her own way a bit more. For example some people are obviously finding this list therapeutic, but for her its counterproductive – I show her some emails from here sometimes, so maybe she could relate, but it just ends up reminding her about drugs and results in cravings. Same thing with group therapy methods. She does however like the video games method – when the going gets tough she turns on the Gamecube and plays Zelda for a few hours…
Tink, if you’re reading this, I am finding myself relating to your family a bit, with the whole pressure and “get your shit together already, its been a fucking year” thing..  The fear and the pain people go through on our end of it drives us to lose patience, apply pressure, nag and condescend…. But its all because we care. You know that of course though.

Cheers
Boris

I’ve always
been pretty disgusted at the whole anti-rave movement (and anti-traveller)
amongst politicians in Britain and in the US. Don’t they have better more
constructive activities to undertake using our taxes? Like, say, giving me
and mine health insurance? Gesuz, sounds so logical to me.
Anyway, keep dancing.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Boris Leshinsky” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] At the end of the rainbow

Seeing as I’ve been posting a bit and feeling strangely at home round here
and think I might stick around awhile, I want to share something I’ve
written too, by way of introducing myself a bit better.

It may not seem relevant at first, but I think it will become apparent
that
it is. Its about a music festival we have in Australia, called Rainbow
Serpant.

“At the end of the Rainbow”
http://www.inthemix.com.au/features/8539/

cheers
Boris

“At the end of the Rainbow
Reported on Monday, Jan 20, 2003. 16:51 by Infinafta

It is a dusty and dry Monday afternoon at the Rainbow Serpent Festival
2002, located two hours drive west of Melbourne. The festival has been
held
on Australia Day weekend for the last five years, this weekend drawing
about
four thousand revelers. It is the last of a string of such festivals held
along the east coast of Australia every summer.

A grove of trees in the middle of the campsite is serving as the final
refuge for the last remnants of festival goers – the three-day festival
may
be over, but the party continues. A dozen or so hammocks crisscross the
area
enveloped in a mesh of colorful banners and tarpaulins. A herd of combi
vans
and 4WDs surrounds the trees.

This is the only sound system, to still be pumping out the rhythms and
around three score trancers have descended on it, like brightly colored
moths around a flickering candle. The system is not officially part of the
festival, but a private “renegade” setup – one of several such systems at
the festival. About a dozen people are sporadically dancing to the
unobtrusive beats emanating from the speakers. In the distance the
festival
site is being dismantled and most of the campsite around us is empty.

Of the people around me, perhaps a third are from Melbourne and a third
from
other parts of Australia, mainly from Sydney and the NSW north coast, the
rest hailing from all corners of the globe – places such as Sweden, the
UK,
Greece, Israel and Japan.

Many of the faces surrounding me have become familiar over the last month
on
the festival trail. Of those unknown to me before many have become
friends,
others I have not officially met, but knowing smiles are exchanged
nonetheless on the chance passing. A primordial bond seems to have been
awoken within by the long nights and days spent stomping together, a
tribal
instinct dormant beneath the veneer of modern superficiality remembered.

Commenting on this experience of trance festivals, Lui, from Sydney, who
has
made the pilgrimage to every one of the last five RSFs, says, “The ritual
of
dancing outdoors in large groups of people is as old as time, and this is
the modern day version of it. I think Psy-Trance is a extremely tribal
experience.”

DJing under the name Raptor and promoting parties as part of the Yak and
Yeti crew, Lui has been a part of the Sydney trance underground since the
mid-nineties, recently launching his latest project, australiens.net, a
site
dedicated to the Australian Psy-Trance community.

He adds, “The festivals bring us all back to being part of something which
I
feel society has kind of lost – a real sense of community.”

Benjamin Richards, who organizes the Summer Dreaming festival outside
Sydney
as part of the Artcore collective, reaffirms these sentiments. In its 4th
year, this year’s SD festival, running on the weekend before Rainbow
Serpent, drew over 2000 people. Set in the spectacular Glenworth Valley,
north of Sydney, the festival was nestled in the lush greenness of the
valley, a river running through the campsite, with two nights of music
from
local and international DJs and live artists.
“I look at it like creating a biosphere, a miniature town or community
that
is constantly morphing and evolving into parts of space and time.”, says
Richards about the organization of SD. “… We create a platform that is
up
to the people we bring together to fill with energy and life. I just want
to
create the platform, have it reach far enough across the globe to bring
people from different cultures and persuasions together to create a unique
vibe and collective unconscious – the basis of the collective trance dance
experience. I have traveled the globe, partied on many different
continents,
I am monolingual, but have shared very special things with people that I
can’t
verbally communicate with, but for a certain space in time, we have walked
together and spiritually ascended. I hope to recreate that feeling on
others
that I have felt myself, something internally profound.”

When asked about the significance of his own experiences Richards relates,
“Trance for me is more personal, an explorative internal meditation that
makes me feel more connected to myself and to other people when I am in a
party environment. The thing that is so special about it for me is it
provides a soundscape that is open to your own interpretation… I want my
creative mind to be inspired.”

The themes of tribe, community and internal exploration weave a common
thread through the global trance culture, although simply having a bloody
good time dancing the night and day away to the music you love, all
cultural
inhibition abandoned, should not go unmentioned. The fact that the parties
are outdoor is also a huge drawing factor. When compared to the beauty of
the Australian bush or the beach, where the blue sky is your ceiling,
space
is virtually unlimited, and walking away from the party for some peace and
quiet you find yourself in the serenity of nature, rather than some seedy
back streets of the inner city, smoky, crowded clubs quickly lose their
appeal. Frequently parties and festivals are located near a swimming hole
or
the beach, providing an opportunity to cool off in the morning. The day
after the party is often whisked away in these beautiful surroundings, and
one finds themselves internally recuperated, rather than drained as is
usually the case after a night out on the town.

A brief look at the history of this elusive musical genre reveals much
about
the nature of the surrounding culture. An entity entirely apart from the
flamboyantly melodic and anthemic styles of Trance generally associated
with
clubs and raves – an association generally shunned within Psy-Trance
culture – Psychedelic Trance or Psy-Trance emerged from and subsequently
grew to encompass the Goa Trance sound that went through a brief but
intense
period of popularity in the mid-nineties. Goa, on the west coast of India,
has been a destination and a home to westerners in pursuit of altered
states
of consciousness through all night dancing under the influence of
psychedelics for over thirty years. The music at the parties on the
beaches
and in the jungle around Goa progressed from Reggae, Dub and Psychedelic
Rock in the 70s, to early House, Techno and Industrial sounds in the 80s.
DJs and musicians, inspired by their experiences in Goa, coming home,
wanted
to recreate the incredible vibe they had discovered at the parties there.
The club environment did not lend itself to this experience, so the
parties
were taken to the outdoors, the connection with nature seen as an
important
part of the psychedelic journey. At the same time, the music was sought to
push the experience further and thus out of the fusion of Acid House and
New
Wave Industrial, with a pinch of Psychedelic Rock thrown in, Goa Trance
was
born.

The genre was all but absent from the world of electronic music by the end
of 1997, going back into the underground, although in Israel its
popularity
never abated, with 30000 people turning out for a protest party in Rabin
Square, Tel Aviv in 1999, to protest the county’s draconian police policy
on
Trance events. Through a reinvention of itself as Psy-Trance however, the
culture survived and in the last three years has mushroomed in popularity,
with new artists and scenes popping up all over the world, from Mexico to
China. With a strong influence from Techno, the genre has diversified,
spawning a myriad of sub styles that have pushed musical boundaries in
completely new directions. For example, Minimal Trance has emerged as a
hypnotic and atmospheric style, possessing an entrancing ambience within a
structure of crunchy technoid beats. Other sub genres have drawn on
Breaks,
House and even Jazz and Heavy Metal.

Sharing some of the ideals with and indeed having its distant roots in the
60s counterculture, does not stop the new trance hippie culture from
simultaneously wholeheartly embracing technology, rejected by their
cultural
fore bearers. Trancers are acutely aware that the culture they love so
much
would not be possible without technology. Not only would the music not be
created or the parties produced, although surely the tribal trance dance
gathering predates the electronic gadgetry of today by some millennia, but
without the World Wide Web and email, not to mention relatively cheap
travel
costs, there would not be the possibility for the existence of the global
trance network that has emerged. In the last year or so, open-air Trance
festivals drawing thousands of partygoers, have been held in Morocco,
Brazil, Zambia, Portugal, Thailand, Greece and Germany. The biggest
festivals in Europe, such as Boom Festival held in Portugal in 2000 and
the
Solipse Solar Eclipse Festival in Hungary in 1999, have numbered 15 000 –
20
000 people.

On the subject of the role of technology in his life, Richards says “In my
home I am surrounded by computers and technology, my turntables for when I
want to create a flowing journey that lasts more than 10 mins, my studio
when I want to baffle over how to let out what is inside of me. I guess
that
is the other thing I love about trance and the outdoor festival scene – we
are utilizing state of the art technology in every way to create these
experiences and enriching them with the most powerful force in the
universe – Gaia.”

Another aspect often seen as inherent in this cyber hippie trance culture
is
the use of drugs and particularly psychedelics. LSD, Psilocybin Mushrooms
and Ecstasy are common at parties, while DMT and Salvia Divinorum are seen
by the more experienced as tools to explore further some of the realms
that
the psychedelic trance experience may have opened up. However many
trancers,
particularly those that have been involved with trance culture for many
years, preach caution in drug use and for many abstinence is seen as the
only way forward.

Shahar, who runs isratrance.com, one of the most popular Psy-Trance
related
websites on the Web, had the following to say on the subject: “I feel sad
that a lot of people are dependent on the use of the drugs to attain what
trance can offer them. Drugs may open a window for those that can’t open
it
themself, but to get there for real, you need to do it yourselves. Usually
the more you use drugs, the smaller and further the window becomes until
it
fades and disappears.”

“Trance can bring you consciousness naturally”, says Shahar, “ – just melt
yourself in the music and forget your body – it comes naturally and than
it
stays forever. A party can bring us back a unity we no longer have in our
lives – we have ourselves, family, and then its city, state. The tribe is
missing. When you dance all night and swap energies with the people around
you, discover their faces at sunrise and realize you already know them,
and
leave the party with the energy of 50-2000 people sharing, you get the
tribe
back in your life.”

And thus we return to the theme of the tribe.

This last year has taken me to the week long Exodus Festival near Byron
Bay,
The Awakening Festival near Brisbane, then down to Summer Dreaming near
Sydney and finally to the Rainbow Serpent near Melbourne. After each
festival more and more smiling faces on the dance floor have become
familiar. Experiences and journeys have been shared, the tribe has
expanded
and grown closer together. And although it is now time for some of us to
return to our home tribes, we return enriched with new friendships and
connections. Already there is talk of a visit to Europe for a run of the
festivals there on the home turf of some of my new friends.

As I sit back in a gently rocking hammock, I find myself becoming a little
nostalgic about the events of the last year. Scanning the saturnalian
party
aftermath around me, I smile to myself, remembering a joke someone had
made
in an Internet forum recently. “When you dance with the rainbow serpent,
the
rainbow serpent doesn’t change, the rainbow serpent changes you.”

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 25, 2005 at 7:53:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think Johnny Depp is incredibly talented too , I was just being silly – He guested on a UK comedy called ‘the fast show’ a few times and said it was the funniest show he’d ever seen , I love him for saying that………….. ok ! beam me up……..see ya c.k.

>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]  off topic but i get do  2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:02:09 +1200
>
>Well, excuseeeee me but I recently saw an Actors Studio of Johnny Depp and I
>love ‘im more than life issss sself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah self……….
>such a down to earth bloke, he roks in my opin-onion and that’s big coming
>from me
>
>Like Im so special hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like my opinion means jack
>
>Love to all
>
>Very happy kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 8:28 a.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
>
>
>
>
>
>You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you
>looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other
>gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane
>drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian Roulette
>or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and Johnny
>Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one
>eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of
>that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to
>me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however
>probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that
>being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something important
>like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts
>that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood, I
>devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if you
>can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later
>Preston !!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
> >
> >Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+
> >posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating
> >the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
> >
> >Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer
> >writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three
> >passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
> >
> >>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel
> >>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at
> >>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
> >>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude
> >>you apply to a thread ?<
> >
> >Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always
> >good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
> >
> >>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
> >>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
> >>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
> >>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
> >>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
> >>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
> >>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
> >>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
> >
> >That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make
> >me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist”
> >sounds very cool.
> >
> >>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves
> >>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
> >
> >Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
> >decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I
> >started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together
> >the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant
> >out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and
> >artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the
> >place look like a spaceship or something, among other
> >artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body
> >rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to
> >continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I
> >could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I
> >could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote,
> >pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched,
> >mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and
> >then gradually started selling my writing.
> >    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a
> >desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude
> >here, taking it away there.
> >    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
> >;-))
> >    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
> >opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to
> >no complaints.
> >    Any other questions?
> >
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >often mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
> >
> >
> >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list
> >in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of
> >a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work
> >to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week ,
> >I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative ,
> >I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the
> >rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can
> >I get a cut.
> >       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. –
> >Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once
> >told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last
> >year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian
> >soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive
> >civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century
> >Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a
> >round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who
> >does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
> >type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
> >Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
> >……….sjonny.
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> >>
> >>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> >>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> >>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> >>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> >>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> >>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the
> >>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of
> >>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only
> >>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or
> >>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of
> >>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look
> >>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there,
> >>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>Peace and love,
> >>Preston Peet
> >>
> >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>often mistaken for madness”
> >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >>Sept. 2005)
> >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>Columnist New York Waste
> >>Etc.
> >>
> >>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> >><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>
> >>
> >>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> >>>email
> >>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> >>>Lol
> >>>Damn…
> >>>Oh well.
> >>>Kirk
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> >>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>>in August?
> >>>
> >>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> >>>already? I
> >>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one
> >>>before to see
> >>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> >>>And they
> >>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> >>>buggered if I
> >>>know Preston!!!
> >>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> >>>star gazer
> >>>by nature.
> >>>
> >>>—–Original Message—–
> >>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> >>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> >>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >>>August?
> >>>
> >>>Hi all,
> >>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> >>>how Mars
> >>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> >>>Anyone
> >>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> >>>I’ve no
> >>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> >>>full
> >>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> >>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> >>>going
> >>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> >>>rock of a
> >>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> >>>for a
> >>>fly-by):
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> >>>Earth
> >>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in
> >>>the
> >>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> >>>next
> >>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> >>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> >>>be
> >>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> >>>5,000
> >>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> >>>again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> >>>within
> >>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> >>>brightest
> >>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> >>>will
> >>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> >>>will be
> >>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> >>>at
> >>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> >>>when
> >>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> >>>its
> >>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> >>>see
> >>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> >>>mark
> >>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> >>>progressively
> >>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> >>><
> >>>
> >>>Peace and love,
> >>>Preston Peet
> >>>
> >>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>>often
> >>>mistaken for madness”
> >>>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>>
> >>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>>Civilizations,
> >>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>>Columnist New York Waste
> >>>Etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 25, 2005 at 7:52:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As someone already said, sounds like a panic attack.. I had one while on
psilocybin mushrooms about 10 years ago and earned myself a nice dose of
PTSD. Took about 5 years to get through that and still don’t feel
completely right.

After that trip I was ok for about 2 months, took acid 3 days later even
(hey, it was new years eve, I wasn’t gonna miss out). Then it hit me and
I couldn’t leave my room for 2 weeks, convinced I had lost my mind.
When it first hit me (“fuck! Flash back! Schizophrenia! I am going to
bad trip forever! Why is God punishing me??!?!”), I asked my parents to
call an ambulance to take me somewhere padded with strong sedatives (
*stunned look* “What? Ambulance? But are you hurting somewhere? Why did
you eat poisonous mushrooms?”). During the trip I went to a doctor and
was given Valium and that sorted me out at the time. It was at a folk
music festival, so luckily there was a doctor in the emergency tent
there.

Anyway, this kind of experience can have a serious long term fallout.
You friend should get professional help.

Cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 1:00 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga

a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew
on
it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
doesn´t take any drugs.

since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i don´t
think
it´s the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
shingles, pain in his nerves etc.

he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didn´t knew, and he
probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. it´s just
that
he feels so bad he says it´s life threatening. he got some valium for
emergency cases.

he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
with it´s anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
regarding his health with great caution and wouldn´t just buy some
iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
taste.

so any comments or suggestions?

ekki

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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 25, 2005 at 7:40:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey tink, one more suggestion for the allergy – I used to get hayfever
pretty bad and found horseradish tablets helped at the time. But if you
get that sort of thing often, I found I much improved when I started
doing tai chi.

Cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:46 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!

I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far, and I don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment.  I can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy ibogachoo
thingy any more.  This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it.  I have a constant head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with restlessness as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin, seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out the hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (still OT) a couple photos
Date: June 25, 2005 at 6:00:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kirk wrote >Oh so you saw my and Mathews photos and thought you poor ugly bastards<

You sent us a photo of you Capt. Kirk? I don’t remember seeing that. I remember Mathews, and thinking how good he looked for a junkie, but don’t recall seeing a Cpt. Kirk photo here.
And I think he liked the highboots/fishnets/clingywhitedress thing Kirk. I enjoy a lot the fact that after almost nine years I still find her extremely attractive and get very excited by her with litte to no trouble whatsoever. Many people have asked us if we still “do it” and I’m always amazed, because all I have to do is look over at her and then get confused as to how they can ask me at least such a question, considering who I’m with.
The fact that I’m with V is such a grounding part of my life. I know it’s risky putting so much of me into her, but I can’t help it, and thanks whatever powers that be, probably the very same ones which brought ibogaine into my life, for bringing her and I together, and for keeping us in constant contact and touch until we could get to a point in our lives where it became possible for us to become more than just friends but partners.
I’ve been lucky in that I’ve had a few very special relationships with a few different women in my life, most of whom I do not know the whereabouts of these days much to my chagrin, but every other relationship I ended up screwing up over my drug abuse getting in the way of a healthy or sane relationship after a while. This time however, I seem to have really been steered to the one person who makes me whole as I can possibly be I think. Even at our moments of stress, I never forget that I am one of the luckiest men on the planet.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 3:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos

Oh so you saw my and Mathews photos and thought you poor ugly bastards I
hope you get plastic surgery soon???????????? Huh??
lOl well mathew maybe not but  me yehhhhh…………..and
BTW  wheres your mug shot???? And you others…………….
Not being pushy or disrespecting your wish to remain physically anonymous bt
heyyyy Ya bunchah woosiesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
All in good fun
Kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx love u all

—–Original Message—–
From: SKALD VANASATRU [mailto:CoyDogsRock@webtv.net]
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 7:21 a.m.
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos

Oh Preston, I just saw the photos you lucky, lucky man!
TIGERRIDER

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 25, 2005 at 3:02:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, excuseeeee me but I recently saw an Actors Studio of Johnny Depp and I love ‘im more than life issss sself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah self………………………… such a down to earth bloke, he roks in my opin-onion and that’s big coming from me
Like Im so special hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like my opinion means jack
Love to all
Very happy kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 8:28 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet

You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian Roulette or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and Johnny Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something important like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood, I devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if you can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later Preston !! 
 




>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
>
>Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ 
>posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating 
>the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
>
>Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer 
>writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three 
>passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
>
>>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel 
>>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at 
>>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know 
>>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude 
>>you apply to a thread ?<
>
>Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always 
>good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
>
>>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician 
>>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I 
>>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and 
>>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier 
>>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil 
>>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri 
>>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round 
>>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
>
>That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make 
>me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist” 
>sounds very cool.
>
>>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves 
>>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
>
>Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally 
>decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I 
>started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together 
>the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant 
>out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and 
>artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the 
>place look like a spaceship or something, among other 
>artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body 
>rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to 
>continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I 
>could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I 
>could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote, 
>pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched, 
>mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and 
>then gradually started selling my writing.
>    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a 
>desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude 
>here, taking it away there.
>    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
>;-))
>    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an 
>opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to 
>no complaints.
>    Any other questions?
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out 
>Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>
>
>I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list 
>in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of 
>a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work 
>to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , 
>I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , 
>I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the 
>rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can 
>I get a cut.
>       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – 
>Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once 
>told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last 
>year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian 
>soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive 
>civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century 
>Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a 
>round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who 
>does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to 
>type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a 
>Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! 
>……….sjonny.
>>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>in August?
>>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
>>
>>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not 
>>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars 
>>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a 
>>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that 
>>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter 
>>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the 
>>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of 
>>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only 
>>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or 
>>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of 
>>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look 
>>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, 
>>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
>>
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston Peet
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>>often mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out 
>>Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” 
>><captkirk@free.net.nz>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>in August?
>>
>>
>>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old 
>>>email
>>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! 
>>>Lol
>>>Damn…
>>>Oh well.
>>>Kirk
>>>
>>>—–Original Message—–
>>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
>>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>>in August?
>>>
>>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened 
>>>already? I
>>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one 
>>>before to see
>>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. 
>>>And they
>>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so 
>>>buggered if I
>>>know Preston!!!
>>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a 
>>>star gazer
>>>by nature.
>>>
>>>—–Original Message—–
>>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
>>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
>>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in 
>>>August?
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about 
>>>how Mars
>>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? 
>>>Anyone
>>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so 
>>>I’ve no
>>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give 
>>>full
>>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
>>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever 
>>>going
>>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this 
>>>rock of a
>>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in 
>>>for a
>>>fly-by):
>>>
>>>>
>>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, 
>>>Earth
>>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in 
>>>the
>>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The 
>>>next
>>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
>>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only 
>>>be
>>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 
>>>5,000
>>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens 
>>>again.
>>>
>>>
>>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to 
>>>within
>>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the 
>>>brightest
>>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and 
>>>will
>>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
>>>
>>>
>>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars 
>>>will be
>>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east 
>>>at
>>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August 
>>>when
>>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach 
>>>its
>>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to 
>>>see
>>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, 
>>>mark
>>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow 
>>>progressively
>>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>>><
>>>
>>>Peace and love,
>>>Preston Peet
>>>
>>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>>>often
>>>mistaken for madness”
>>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>>
>>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>>>Civilizations,
>>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>>Columnist New York Waste
>>>Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos
Date: June 25, 2005 at 3:02:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh so you saw my and Mathews photos and thought you poor ugly bastards I
hope you get plastic surgery soon???????????? Huh??
lOl well mathew maybe not but  me yehhhhh…………..and
BTW  wheres your mug shot???? And you others…………….
Not being pushy or disrespecting your wish to remain physically anonymous bt
heyyyy Ya bunchah woosiesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
All in good fun
Kirk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx love u all

—–Original Message—–
From: SKALD VANASATRU [mailto:CoyDogsRock@webtv.net]
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 7:21 a.m.
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos

Oh Preston, I just saw the photos you lucky, lucky man!
TIGERRIDER

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston
Date: June 25, 2005 at 3:02:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn we can get so rapt  up in
what we are “sposed ” to be and what were sposeed to be working on that we
simply and most easily forget to…………………JUST BE.
So in the infamous words  of … um…………someone Hehheh
BE STILL.
AND KNOW
THAT YOU
AREEEEEEEEEE GOD.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 9:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston

Writing angry childish messages against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.<

Ok. Not sure I agree, but that’s cool, I’m not actually complaining, as much

as I’d have prefered to have gotten the dose I thought I was getting- I
consider the person who helped me out, the people who helped me out, as
friends, and have no complaints as to their putting themselves at risk more
than once to help me out. I’m sorry if that’s the impression you got. My
complaint, if that’s what you would like to call it, is that I thought I was

getting more than I was so didn’t get what I expect out of it- but then what

do I expect to get out of any of my experiences? I usuallly decide what I
got afterwards anyway, regardless of what I thought before going in, and
ibogaine was no different.
Otherwise, I really appreciated the rest of your note- I don’t blame
anyone ever for anything I do. I take full responsibility for who I am and
what I do, and I would think that obvious from any writing about myself I
ever do.
But that’s irrelevent to the list as a whole I suppose, and not
important to anyone but me. I certainly don’t think I’m “failing” at much of

anything, but do have some issues I work out on a daily basis, sometimes
getting more unsure than at others as to whether I’m really making the right

choices or not.
Ahh, whatever. Judgement calls, all the time, I make ’em, and so do a
lot of others too. “This drug good, this emotion bad, this statement
contradictory, this demand rational, this anger misplaced, this person an
asshole or an angel or blah blah blah.”
😉

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vivienne Elanta” <vivienneelanta@yahoo.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston

Beautifully put Rachel and thank you.

The medicine belongs to all who need it, each to use in their own way. If
someone decide this is what is right for all, they are naive and coming
from a
place of ego.

I found this place through Patrick, who did almost nothing except take
control
from the day he got clean with Dr. Mash. He failed or was thrown out of
her
“aftercare” treatments, went to ashram in Thailand and found himself again

with
massive dose of LSD. The reason all can communicate here and find
“underground
railroad” that America makes needed, is because he opened Mindvox to
ibogaine,
which again is against all that Dr. Mash has ever said because I am more
then
certain she’d happily agree with Preston as underground ibogaine being
drug
dealers, her quote is back room abortionists.

Ultimate irony is of course that she take full credit for Patrick,
introduce
him as her son and the biggest mess who is biggest success. Same idea
apply
last time Patrick said I think he said he had done ibogaine 15 or 16 times

with
full doses and dozens or hundreds of lower dose “bioassays” which appear
with
him in some talk with psychedelic chemist Jonathan Ott. Patrick of course
has
not done any of that with Dr. Mash, because he took responsibility for
himself
and is high priest in world’s largest ibogaine hcl dealership 😉 I mean
to say
instead First church of ibogaine, Sacrament of Transition.

Any who think they have all right answers for everyone, are to say it
again
being naive at worst or drug dealers with messiah complex at best. Truth
is
also very simple, if you want to take control for yourself and own
actions,
then do it and take responsibility. Writing angry childish messages
against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did
not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.

Ibogaine should be available to all is truth of course, War on drugs is
joke of
course made worse most of all by America where all of you live and have
this
sacred medicine in same category as heroin and crack. Almost nowhere else
in
the world is the situation like this.

Who is right I think is everyone for themselves. Being angry at someone
else
and blaming them for your failure (if that is what it is) or wanting them
to
act to you in some other way, is being a selfish child or addict 😉

If you want control for your own dose, then take control for your own
dose,
whining about this on the ibogaine list won’t change it. I don’t know
where
quote originates, Patrick said it in Jonathan Ott talk “love is given and
shared. Power is never given, it is taken. You do not ask permission”.

However you want to view it or sugar coat things, ibogaine is both healing

and
love, it is also power and very expensive drug in America where there is
so
little and so many need it

Blessed be
Vivienne Elanta

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 25, 2005 at 3:02:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fear fear fear and more fear, not the drug, our fears of.. well, everything, even succeeding.
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 9:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga

From everything you said, including your friend saying he felt it was life threatening points to a panic attack, I’ve had them…….. years ago , and you DO THINK that you are dying , apart from pulse rate , adrenalin and irregular breathing you could better ask a docter…… but I would lay money on it, it’s severe panic – Take him to a consulant to alleviate his fears and teach him some very simple breathing patterns , absolute panic stoppers ….. sjonny
>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
>Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:20:45 EDT
>
>Without being present or providing medical advice, I would suggest that
>whatever worked previously in the non-ibogaine situations would work equally well,
>or not, in this case.  Sounds like an anxiety reaction to me.  Why doesn’t
>your friend ask his doctor for a suggestion?  There appears to be no adverse drug
>interaction between ibogaine and benzodiazepines (valium) based on concurrent
>use of benzodiazepines in ibogaine therapy for decades.  However, his own
>doctor should sign off on anything he does.
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 6/24/05 12:02:31 PM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:
>
> >a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
> >it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
> >he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
> >doesn´t take any drugs.
>
> >since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i don´t think
> >it´s the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
> >or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
> >with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
> >thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
> >shingles, pain in his nerves etc.
>
> >he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didn´t knew, and he
> >probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
> >hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. it´s just that
> >he feels so bad he says it´s life threatening. he got some valium for
> >emergency cases.
>
> >he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
> >with it´s anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
> >ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
> >taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
> >regarding his health with great caution and wouldn´t just buy some
> >iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
> >taste.
>
> >so any comments or suggestions?
>
>
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 25, 2005 at 3:00:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyyyyy sonny!!
I just accidentally overbid on a graphics card, so have to buy it on Monday!! Then I can play doom 3!!! Do you know how frustrating it is to have a copy and not be able to play it?????? Ahhhhhhhhhh
Heyyy try out www.trademe.co.nz   still cheaper and loads of graphics cards.. that’s where I just got mine!!!!!!!!!
Good to see ya hear
Love heaos
Kirk xxz
From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 10:36 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

Hello ‘capt kirk’ – I just saw your post……. Welcome to you too …….damn I d/l ed  New-Doom off dc and now graphics card isn’t quite up to it – looking for a 256MB ATi Radeon card to live upto the new wave of processors about to hit us. By the way , you can be sure I don’t pay your taxes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ok bye bye Capt.  sjonny….  !!
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.coms
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:53:27 +1200
>
>Heyy Welcome Sjonny GEee!!
>
>Oops spelling is off tonight, been murdering monsters in hell whilst playing
>Doom (plutonia) still a bit shakey from killing one of the big buggers.
>
>Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s
>what I’d like to think I do.*) is to be govt funded.  I’m a General (I
>generally do anything it takes to survive.) and until they stop bleeding
>small businesses and others alive I at this unqualified stage cannot make
>enough working!! Sad? Yes indeedy I love working. But I also like partial
>sanity and my daughter..
>
>Anywayyyy that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!!!  (and many thanks for
>the taxes…I do work sometimes so I pretty much pay my own way, give or
>take a few bucks lol)
>
>As for Preston n V… I;m not sure whose boots I wanna nick off with!!!!
>Great pic I love the wedding card idea!!!  It’s the kind of thing that would
>definitely set my mother off on a long series of Conniption Fits.
>
>Ok, back to killing things…muhahahahaha
>
>Koiky
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:27 p.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>
>
>
>I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
>day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
>laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
>and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop
>at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your
>sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a
>thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
>
>        The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician ,
>Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good),
>Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish
>to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
>Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
>destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that
>site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}
>- So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
>type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good
>dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
>August?
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> >
> >to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> >more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> >being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> >telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> >article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> >through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
> >with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
> >brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
> >how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
> >mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
> >Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
> >telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
> >with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> >
> >
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston Peet
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >often mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> ><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >August?
> >
> >
> >>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> >>email
> >>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> >>Lol
> >>Damn…
> >>Oh well.
> >>Kirk
> >>
> >>—–Original Message—–
> >>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>
> >>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> >>already? I
> >>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
> >>to see
> >>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> >>And they
> >>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> >>buggered if I
> >>know Preston!!!
> >>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> >>star gazer
> >>by nature.
> >>
> >>—–Original Message—–
> >>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> >>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> >>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >>August?
> >>
> >>Hi all,
> >>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> >>how Mars
> >>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> >>Anyone
> >>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> >>I’ve no
> >>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> >>full
> >>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> >>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> >>going
> >>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> >>rock of a
> >>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> >>for a
> >>fly-by):
> >>
> >>>
> >>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> >>Earth
> >>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
> >>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> >>next
> >>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> >>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> >>be
> >>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> >>5,000
> >>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> >>again.
> >>
> >>
> >>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> >>within
> >>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> >>brightest
> >>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> >>will
> >>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> >>
> >>
> >>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> >>will be
> >>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> >>at
> >>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> >>when
> >>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> >>its
> >>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> >>see
> >>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> >>mark
> >>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> >>progressively
> >>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> >><
> >>
> >>Peace and love,
> >>Preston Peet
> >>
> >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>often
> >>mistaken for madness”
> >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>Civilizations,
> >>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>Columnist New York Waste
> >>Etc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] LSD addiction ?!!?
Date: June 25, 2005 at 3:00:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am very interested in this , yeh so who does find out whatever……..
I have an ex neighbour from where I liveed, always keep in touch.. he goes thru cycles so I gave him the info on neurontin to talk out with his doc, his cycles are such you can keep your calendar by them.
From: Klatuu02@aol.com [mailto:Klatuu02@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 10:48 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] LSD addiction ?!!?

In a message dated 6/23/2005 11:19:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bleshins@bigpond.net.au writes:
Actually, the reason I was looking at that is that I read an article somewhere that said LSD promotes growth (repair?) of dopamine receptors.  Cant find that article now.

Has anyone read or knows anything about this?

Boris
If anyone does find this article I would love to read it..whether posted
or email

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 25, 2005 at 1:25:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with Nick. For an antidote, I suggest salty food and a bath
in epsom salts. He might also look into improving nutrition and
vitamins generally if this is a weak area for him.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:29:38 -0700 Nick Sandberg
<nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Ekki,

From what you’ve put down, I don’t think this guy should take a
full dose of
iboga. If he manifests a strong reaction from such a tiny dose,
however it’s
actually being caused, I don’t think it’s good to take more.
Better he
starts working one-to-one or in groups, talking about feelings,
childhood,
this kind of stuff. About spiritual/psychosomatic, maybe that’s
what it is
but it’s still needed to talk about where you are emotionally and
socially
to help get more integrated.

Something I’ve noticed over the years is that a fairly big sub-
group of the
people that are attracted to ibogaine therapy seem to be so
because they
want to “go it alone.” They want to get off drugs or move on in
life but
they want to do it THEIR OWN WAY! No therapists, no groups, no
rehab, this
kind of thing, you just take a drug and then hang out. They don’t
want to
let others in so much, except where they can keep control. It’s
ok, and for
some the ibo will maybe do something, but for a lot no. It’s not
gonna be
their path and at some stage they’ll have to trust a bit more and
take the
plunge into more revealing work.

This is just my personal opinion. I’m  qualified as therapist but
not a
psychiatrist so I’m not an expert about psychosis.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 24 June 2005 16:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga

a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and
chew on
it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday.
today
he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide
since. he
doesnīt take any drugs.

since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i
donīt think
itīs the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his
psychosis
or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any
contact
with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems –
which he
thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including
depression,
shingles, pain in his nerves etc.

he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didnīt knew, and
he
probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in
that we
hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. itīs
just that
he feels so bad he says itīs life threatening. he got some
valium for
emergency cases.

he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help
him,
with itīs anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed
to do
ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer,
first
taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles
anything
regarding his health with great caution and wouldnīt just buy
some
iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience

the
taste.

so any comments or suggestions?

ekki

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Not flunking yet, but give me 24 hours…
Date: June 24, 2005 at 11:34:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I didn’t flunk out and only have to doctor an annoted bibliography
to fix everything and make everyone happy.  Amazing how I can stress
myself to the gills in no time.  I am a bit in the dog house, but
because I have been so honest about where I was coming from and what
I’ve been doing, the staff are being phenomenally lenient with me.  I
know this sounds absolutely ridiculous, but it almost pisses me off.
I really am my own worsed enemy and critic. WTF!!
Anyhoo, I have lemon tea and some sort of cold medicine and am praying
for my throat to reopen and my ear to start working again.  I can no
longer swallow, and i’m beginning to wonder if this is and allergy or
some sort of alien infestion growing in my sinuses and just waiting to
claw it’s way out when it reaches the end of it’s gestation period.
Green snot is not a good sign.  I feel like a 5 year old, and would
gladly curl up on a couch with a box of tissue and Sesame Street and
soup if I could.
Anyhoo, thanks all for dealing with tinker-rant.  Now here’s to this
cold medicine not kicking in the twitchies…
love to all
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston
Date: June 24, 2005 at 11:23:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,
You sound like you’re having a hell of a time of it, and I just wanted
to say hi and send you a hug.
love
tink

On 6/24/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Writing angry childish messages against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.<

Ok. Not sure I agree, but that’s cool, I’m not actually complaining, as much
as I’d have prefered to have gotten the dose I thought I was getting- I
consider the person who helped me out, the people who helped me out, as
friends, and have no complaints as to their putting themselves at risk more
than once to help me out. I’m sorry if that’s the impression you got. My
complaint, if that’s what you would like to call it, is that I thought I was
getting more than I was so didn’t get what I expect out of it- but then what
do I expect to get out of any of my experiences? I usuallly decide what I
got afterwards anyway, regardless of what I thought before going in, and
ibogaine was no different.
Otherwise, I really appreciated the rest of your note- I don’t blame
anyone ever for anything I do. I take full responsibility for who I am and
what I do, and I would think that obvious from any writing about myself I
ever do.
But that’s irrelevent to the list as a whole I suppose, and not
important to anyone but me. I certainly don’t think I’m “failing” at much of
anything, but do have some issues I work out on a daily basis, sometimes
getting more unsure than at others as to whether I’m really making the right
choices or not.
Ahh, whatever. Judgement calls, all the time, I make ’em, and so do a
lot of others too. “This drug good, this emotion bad, this statement
contradictory, this demand rational, this anger misplaced, this person an
asshole or an angel or blah blah blah.”
😉

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vivienne Elanta” <vivienneelanta@yahoo.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston

Beautifully put Rachel and thank you.

The medicine belongs to all who need it, each to use in their own way. If
someone decide this is what is right for all, they are naive and coming
from a
place of ego.

I found this place through Patrick, who did almost nothing except take
control
from the day he got clean with Dr. Mash. He failed or was thrown out of
her
“aftercare” treatments, went to ashram in Thailand and found himself again
with
massive dose of LSD. The reason all can communicate here and find
“underground
railroad” that America makes needed, is because he opened Mindvox to
ibogaine,
which again is against all that Dr. Mash has ever said because I am more
then
certain she’d happily agree with Preston as underground ibogaine being
drug
dealers, her quote is back room abortionists.

Ultimate irony is of course that she take full credit for Patrick,
introduce
him as her son and the biggest mess who is biggest success. Same idea
apply
last time Patrick said I think he said he had done ibogaine 15 or 16 times
with
full doses and dozens or hundreds of lower dose “bioassays” which appear
with
him in some talk with psychedelic chemist Jonathan Ott. Patrick of course
has
not done any of that with Dr. Mash, because he took responsibility for
himself
and is high priest in world’s largest ibogaine hcl dealership 😉 I mean
to say
instead First church of ibogaine, Sacrament of Transition.

Any who think they have all right answers for everyone, are to say it
again
being naive at worst or drug dealers with messiah complex at best. Truth
is
also very simple, if you want to take control for yourself and own
actions,
then do it and take responsibility. Writing angry childish messages
against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did
not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.

Ibogaine should be available to all is truth of course, War on drugs is
joke of
course made worse most of all by America where all of you live and have
this
sacred medicine in same category as heroin and crack. Almost nowhere else
in
the world is the situation like this.

Who is right I think is everyone for themselves. Being angry at someone
else
and blaming them for your failure (if that is what it is) or wanting them
to
act to you in some other way, is being a selfish child or addict 😉

If you want control for your own dose, then take control for your own
dose,
whining about this on the ibogaine list won’t change it. I don’t know
where
quote originates, Patrick said it in Jonathan Ott talk “love is given and
shared. Power is never given, it is taken. You do not ask permission”.

However you want to view it or sugar coat things, ibogaine is both healing
and
love, it is also power and very expensive drug in America where there is
so
little and so many need it

Blessed be
Vivienne Elanta

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Klatuu02@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] LSD addiction ?!!?
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:47:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/23/2005 11:19:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bleshins@bigpond.net.au writes:

Actually, the reason I was looking at that is that I read an article somewhere that said LSD promotes growth (repair?) of dopamine receptors.  Cant find that article now.

Has anyone read or knows anything about this?

Boris

If anyone does find this article I would love to read it..whether posted
or email

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:36:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello ‘capt kirk’ – I just saw your post……. Welcome to you too …….damn I d/l ed  New-Doom off dc and now graphics card isn’t quite up to it – looking for a 256MB ATi Radeon card to live upto the new wave of processors about to hit us. By the way , you can be sure I don’t pay your taxes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ok bye bye Capt.  sjonny….  !!

>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.coms
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:53:27 +1200
>
>Heyy Welcome Sjonny GEee!!
>
>Oops spelling is off tonight, been murdering monsters in hell whilst playing
>Doom (plutonia) still a bit shakey from killing one of the big buggers.
>
>Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s
>what I’d like to think I do.*) is to be govt funded.  I’m a General (I
>generally do anything it takes to survive.) and until they stop bleeding
>small businesses and others alive I at this unqualified stage cannot make
>enough working!! Sad? Yes indeedy I love working. But I also like partial
>sanity and my daughter..
>
>Anywayyyy that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!!!  (and many thanks for
>the taxes…I do work sometimes so I pretty much pay my own way, give or
>take a few bucks lol)
>
>As for Preston n V… I;m not sure whose boots I wanna nick off with!!!!
>Great pic I love the wedding card idea!!!  It’s the kind of thing that would
>definitely set my mother off on a long series of Conniption Fits.
>
>Ok, back to killing things…muhahahahaha
>
>Koiky
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:27 p.m.
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>
>
>
>I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
>day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
>laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
>and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop
>at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your
>sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a
>thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
>
>        The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician ,
>Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good),
>Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish
>to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
>Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
>destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that
>site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}
>- So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
>type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good
>dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
>August?
> >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
> >
> >to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
> >more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
> >being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
> >telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
> >article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
> >through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
> >with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
> >brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
> >how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
> >mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
> >Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
> >telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
> >with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
> >
> >
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston Peet
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >often mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> >Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
> ><captkirk@free.net.nz>
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >August?
> >
> >
> >>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
> >>email
> >>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
> >>Lol
> >>Damn…
> >>Oh well.
> >>Kirk
> >>
> >>—–Original Message—–
> >>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
> >>in August?
> >>
> >>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
> >>already? I
> >>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
> >>to see
> >>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
> >>And they
> >>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
> >>buggered if I
> >>know Preston!!!
> >>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
> >>star gazer
> >>by nature.
> >>
> >>—–Original Message—–
> >>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
> >>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
> >>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
> >>August?
> >>
> >>Hi all,
> >>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
> >>how Mars
> >>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
> >>Anyone
> >>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
> >>I’ve no
> >>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
> >>full
> >>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
> >>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
> >>going
> >>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
> >>rock of a
> >>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
> >>for a
> >>fly-by):
> >>
> >>>
> >>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
> >>Earth
> >>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
> >>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
> >>next
> >>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
> >>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
> >>be
> >>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
> >>5,000
> >>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
> >>again.
> >>
> >>
> >>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
> >>within
> >>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
> >>brightest
> >>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
> >>will
> >>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
> >>
> >>
> >>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
> >>will be
> >>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
> >>at
> >>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
> >>when
> >>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
> >>its
> >>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
> >>see
> >>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
> >>mark
> >>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
> >>progressively
> >>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
> >><
> >>
> >>Peace and love,
> >>Preston Peet
> >>
> >>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> >>often
> >>mistaken for madness”
> >>Richard Davenport-Hines
> >>
> >>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >>Civilizations,
> >>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >>Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >>Columnist New York Waste
> >>Etc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:21:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Like i’ve already posted I think it’s a panic attack , me studying medicine for 18 months in my bedroom as a 16 year old reading from ‘abused drugs books’ qualifies me to diagnose this.

I’m actually writing to tell you my Ibogaine provider/treatment therapist says exactly the same about ‘going it alone ‘ as you mention in the 2nd paragraph – some providers with zilch knowledge or delusions about their own knowledge/experience can and do exacerbate the whole problem .. cheers Nick…… sjonny !!
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
>Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:29:38 +0100
>
>Hi Ekki,
>
>From what you’ve put down, I don’t think this guy should take a full dose of
>iboga. If he manifests a strong reaction from such a tiny dose, however it’s
>actually being caused, I don’t think it’s good to take more. Better he
>starts working one-to-one or in groups, talking about feelings, childhood,
>this kind of stuff. About spiritual/psychosomatic, maybe that’s what it is
>but it’s still needed to talk about where you are emotionally and socially
>to help get more integrated.
>
>Something I’ve noticed over the years is that a fairly big sub-group of the
>people that are attracted to ibogaine therapy seem to be so because they
>want to “go it alone.” They want to get off drugs or move on in life but
>they want to do it THEIR OWN WAY! No therapists, no groups, no rehab, this
>kind of thing, you just take a drug and then hang out. They don’t want to
>let others in so much, except where they can keep control. It’s ok, and for
>some the ibo will maybe do something, but for a lot no. It’s not gonna be
>their path and at some stage they’ll have to trust a bit more and take the
>plunge into more revealing work.
>
>This is just my personal opinion. I’m  qualified as therapist but not a
>psychiatrist so I’m not an expert about psychosis.
>
>Nick
>
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
> > Sent: 24 June 2005 16:00
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
> >
> >
> > a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
> > it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
> > he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
> > doesnīt take any drugs.
> >
> > since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i donīt think
> > itīs the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
> > or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
> > with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
> > thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
> > shingles, pain in his nerves etc.
> >
> > he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didnīt knew, and he
> > probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
> > hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. itīs just that
> > he feels so bad he says itīs life threatening. he got some valium for
> > emergency cases.
> >
> > he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
> > with itīs anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
> > ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
> > taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
> > regarding his health with great caution and wouldnīt just buy some
> > iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
> > taste.
> >
> > so any comments or suggestions?
> >
> >
> > ekki
> >
> >
> >
> >
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From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] a dosed no hitter…
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:06:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just saw this….apparently true….
http://www.dallasobserver.com/Issues/2005-06-16/news/feature_print.html
Pitch Freely!
Jeff

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 5:59:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From everything you said, including your friend saying he felt it was life threatening points to a panic attack, I’ve had them…….. years ago , and you DO THINK that you are dying , apart from pulse rate , adrenalin and irregular breathing you could better ask a docter…… but I would lay money on it, it’s severe panic – Take him to a consulant to alleviate his fears and teach him some very simple breathing patterns , absolute panic stoppers ….. sjonny

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
>Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:20:45 EDT
>
>Without being present or providing medical advice, I would suggest that
>whatever worked previously in the non-ibogaine situations would work equally well,
>or not, in this case.  Sounds like an anxiety reaction to me.  Why doesn’t
>your friend ask his doctor for a suggestion?  There appears to be no adverse drug
>interaction between ibogaine and benzodiazepines (valium) based on concurrent
>use of benzodiazepines in ibogaine therapy for decades.  However, his own
>doctor should sign off on anything he does.
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 6/24/05 12:02:31 PM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:
>
> >a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
> >it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
> >he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
> >doesnīt take any drugs.
>
> >since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i donīt think
> >itīs the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
> >or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
> >with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
> >thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
> >shingles, pain in his nerves etc.
>
> >he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didnīt knew, and he
> >probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
> >hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. itīs just that
> >he feels so bad he says itīs life threatening. he got some valium for
> >emergency cases.
>
> >he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
> >with itīs anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
> >ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
> >taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
> >regarding his health with great caution and wouldnīt just buy some
> >iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
> >taste.
>
> >so any comments or suggestions?
>
>
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston
Date: June 24, 2005 at 5:08:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Writing angry childish messages against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.<

Ok. Not sure I agree, but that’s cool, I’m not actually complaining, as much as I’d have prefered to have gotten the dose I thought I was getting- I consider the person who helped me out, the people who helped me out, as friends, and have no complaints as to their putting themselves at risk more than once to help me out. I’m sorry if that’s the impression you got. My complaint, if that’s what you would like to call it, is that I thought I was getting more than I was so didn’t get what I expect out of it- but then what do I expect to get out of any of my experiences? I usuallly decide what I got afterwards anyway, regardless of what I thought before going in, and ibogaine was no different.
Otherwise, I really appreciated the rest of your note- I don’t blame anyone ever for anything I do. I take full responsibility for who I am and what I do, and I would think that obvious from any writing about myself I ever do.
But that’s irrelevent to the list as a whole I suppose, and not important to anyone but me. I certainly don’t think I’m “failing” at much of anything, but do have some issues I work out on a daily basis, sometimes getting more unsure than at others as to whether I’m really making the right choices or not.
Ahh, whatever. Judgement calls, all the time, I make ’em, and so do a lot of others too. “This drug good, this emotion bad, this statement contradictory, this demand rational, this anger misplaced, this person an asshole or an angel or blah blah blah.”
😉

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vivienne Elanta” <vivienneelanta@yahoo.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston

Beautifully put Rachel and thank you.

The medicine belongs to all who need it, each to use in their own way. If
someone decide this is what is right for all, they are naive and coming from a
place of ego.

I found this place through Patrick, who did almost nothing except take control
from the day he got clean with Dr. Mash. He failed or was thrown out of her
“aftercare” treatments, went to ashram in Thailand and found himself again with
massive dose of LSD. The reason all can communicate here and find “underground
railroad” that America makes needed, is because he opened Mindvox to ibogaine,
which again is against all that Dr. Mash has ever said because I am more then
certain she’d happily agree with Preston as underground ibogaine being drug
dealers, her quote is back room abortionists.

Ultimate irony is of course that she take full credit for Patrick, introduce
him as her son and the biggest mess who is biggest success. Same idea apply
last time Patrick said I think he said he had done ibogaine 15 or 16 times with
full doses and dozens or hundreds of lower dose “bioassays” which appear with
him in some talk with psychedelic chemist Jonathan Ott. Patrick of course has
not done any of that with Dr. Mash, because he took responsibility for himself
and is high priest in world’s largest ibogaine hcl dealership 😉 I mean to say
instead First church of ibogaine, Sacrament of Transition.

Any who think they have all right answers for everyone, are to say it again
being naive at worst or drug dealers with messiah complex at best. Truth is
also very simple, if you want to take control for yourself and own actions,
then do it and take responsibility. Writing angry childish messages against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.

Ibogaine should be available to all is truth of course, War on drugs is joke of
course made worse most of all by America where all of you live and have this
sacred medicine in same category as heroin and crack. Almost nowhere else in
the world is the situation like this.

Who is right I think is everyone for themselves. Being angry at someone else
and blaming them for your failure (if that is what it is) or wanting them to
act to you in some other way, is being a selfish child or addict 😉

If you want control for your own dose, then take control for your own dose,
whining about this on the ibogaine list won’t change it. I don’t know where
quote originates, Patrick said it in Jonathan Ott talk “love is given and
shared. Power is never given, it is taken. You do not ask permission”.

However you want to view it or sugar coat things, ibogaine is both healing and
love, it is also power and very expensive drug in America where there is so
little and so many need it

Blessed be
Vivienne Elanta

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic but i get do 2 ks (hcl) ! ………Mr.Peet
Date: June 24, 2005 at 4:28:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’ve got a lovely nose Preston , I was just envious of how svelte you looked in that little black number. btw, I can only think of one other gonzo/political journo who occasionally wore a dress, wrote abou his insane drug taking to vivid effect and he died by his own hand  –  Russian Roulette or not.  I’m not saying be worried, but avoid guns, strong liqour and Johnny Depp.  We all know guns and tequila can make things dead , but I’d keep one eye on Depp as well.    I’m actually returning the favour to you because of that subtle blend of pisstaking and genuinely inspiring advice you wrote to me a couple of days ago concerning my career as a writer . I will however probably ignore the advice because I’m a bit of a twat like that and that being my case I recommend  you do the same,  unless it’s something important like tracking down that ‘junkie Thomas’ who wrote all those great shorts that they list on that radical hippys website. – Whenever I’m in the mood, I devour them,  even the ones I’ve read 6 times already  –  Try and see if you can get them edited and published , you never know!…….Ok… ,  Later Preston !! 
 




>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:20:53 -0400
>
>Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ 
>posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating 
>the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<
>
>Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer 
>writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three 
>passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.
>
>>It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel 
>>band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at 
>>anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know 
>>who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude 
>>you apply to a thread ?<
>
>Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always 
>good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.
>
>>The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician 
>>, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I 
>>was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and 
>>actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier 
>>shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil 
>>unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri 
>>Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round 
>>of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<
>
>That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make 
>me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist” 
>sounds very cool.
>
>>So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves 
>>in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<
>
>Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally 
>decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I 
>started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together 
>the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant 
>out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and 
>artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the 
>place look like a spaceship or something, among other 
>artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body 
>rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to 
>continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I 
>could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I 
>could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote, 
>pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched, 
>mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and 
>then gradually started selling my writing.
>    Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a 
>desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude 
>here, taking it away there.
>    At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
>;-))
>    V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an 
>opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to 
>no complaints.
>    Any other questions?
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out 
>Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
>
>
>I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list 
>in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of 
>a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work 
>to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , 
>I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , 
>I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the 
>rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can 
>I get a cut.
>       The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – 
>Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once 
>told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last 
>year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian 
>soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive 
>civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century 
>Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a 
>round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who 
>does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to 
>type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a 
>Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! 
>……….sjonny.
>>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>in August?
>>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
>>
>>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not 
>>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars 
>>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a 
>>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that 
>>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter 
>>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the 
>>moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of 
>>its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only 
>>imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or 
>>upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of 
>>that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look 
>>through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, 
>>including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
>>
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston Peet
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>>often mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out 
>>Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” 
>><captkirk@free.net.nz>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>in August?
>>
>>
>>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old 
>>>email
>>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! 
>>>Lol
>>>Damn…
>>>Oh well.
>>>Kirk
>>>
>>>—–Original Message—–
>>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
>>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>>in August?
>>>
>>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened 
>>>already? I
>>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one 
>>>before to see
>>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. 
>>>And they
>>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so 
>>>buggered if I
>>>know Preston!!!
>>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a 
>>>star gazer
>>>by nature.
>>>
>>>—–Original Message—–
>>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
>>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
>>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in 
>>>August?
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about 
>>>how Mars
>>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? 
>>>Anyone
>>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so 
>>>I’ve no
>>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give 
>>>full
>>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
>>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever 
>>>going
>>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this 
>>>rock of a
>>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in 
>>>for a
>>>fly-by):
>>>
>>>>
>>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, 
>>>Earth
>>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in 
>>>the
>>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The 
>>>next
>>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
>>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only 
>>>be
>>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 
>>>5,000
>>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens 
>>>again.
>>>
>>>
>>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to 
>>>within
>>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the 
>>>brightest
>>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and 
>>>will
>>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
>>>
>>>
>>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars 
>>>will be
>>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east 
>>>at
>>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August 
>>>when
>>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach 
>>>its
>>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to 
>>>see
>>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, 
>>>mark
>>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow 
>>>progressively
>>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>>><
>>>
>>>Peace and love,
>>>Preston Peet
>>>
>>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>>>often
>>>mistaken for madness”
>>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>>
>>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>>>Civilizations,
>>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>>Columnist New York Waste
>>>Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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From: Vivienne Elanta <vivienneelanta@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thank you Rachel and for Preston
Date: June 24, 2005 at 3:22:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beautifully put Rachel and thank you.

The medicine belongs to all who need it, each to use in their own way. If
someone decide this is what is right for all, they are naive and coming from a
place of ego.

I found this place through Patrick, who did almost nothing except take control
from the day he got clean with Dr. Mash. He failed or was thrown out of her
“aftercare” treatments, went to ashram in Thailand and found himself again with
massive dose of LSD. The reason all can communicate here and find “underground
railroad” that America makes needed, is because he opened Mindvox to ibogaine,
which again is against all that Dr. Mash has ever said because I am more then
certain she’d happily agree with Preston as underground ibogaine being drug
dealers, her quote is back room abortionists.

Ultimate irony is of course that she take full credit for Patrick, introduce
him as her son and the biggest mess who is biggest success. Same idea apply
last time Patrick said I think he said he had done ibogaine 15 or 16 times with
full doses and dozens or hundreds of lower dose “bioassays” which appear with
him in some talk with psychedelic chemist Jonathan Ott. Patrick of course has
not done any of that with Dr. Mash, because he took responsibility for himself
and is high priest in world’s largest ibogaine hcl dealership 😉 I mean to say
instead First church of ibogaine, Sacrament of Transition.

Any who think they have all right answers for everyone, are to say it again
being naive at worst or drug dealers with messiah complex at best. Truth is
also very simple, if you want to take control for yourself and own actions,
then do it and take responsibility. Writing angry childish messages against
those who have risked so much to help you and complaining that they did not
help you exactly how you wanted, is nobody’s fault but your own Preston.

Ibogaine should be available to all is truth of course, War on drugs is joke of
course made worse most of all by America where all of you live and have this
sacred medicine in same category as heroin and crack. Almost nowhere else in
the world is the situation like this.

Who is right I think is everyone for themselves. Being angry at someone else
and blaming them for your failure (if that is what it is) or wanting them to
act to you in some other way, is being a selfish child or addict 😉

If you want control for your own dose, then take control for your own dose,
whining about this on the ibogaine list won’t change it. I don’t know where
quote originates, Patrick said it in Jonathan Ott talk “love is given and
shared. Power is never given, it is taken. You do not ask permission”.

However you want to view it or sugar coat things, ibogaine is both healing and
love, it is also power and very expensive drug in America where there is so
little and so many need it

Blessed be
Vivienne Elanta

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: CoyDogsRock@webtv.net (SKALD VANASATRU)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] (OT) a couple photos
Date: June 24, 2005 at 3:21:19 PM EDT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh Preston, I just saw the photos you lucky, lucky man!
TIGERRIDER

~Design by Liandre~

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 24, 2005 at 2:35:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As my super-straight sister says to me too many times for comfort:
“It must be hard being you!”  Funny when people say that to each
other, since all those esoteric teachings of us being all part of one
Whole make the individual ego experiences of “I” and “You” somewhate
dreamy veils of illusion.  However temporarily the embodied brain
allows a given soul-entity to wonder at such ephemeral notions of not
being fragmented, still we carry these egos to function in this world.

I remember, back in February, seeing the personage of Preston Peet
rise painfully from his seat in front of us at COSM, regaled in
downtown finery and cosmetic glow, but moving slow, leaning hard on
the device that helped him walk.  We hadn’t met yet, but I recognized
who he was.  And compassion — feeling someone else’s pain as not
separate — welled up, while certain judgments culled reactively from
his prolific writing ability drained away.  I could hear/feel/sense it
in my bones that E.T. voice going “oooucccch” empathetically and knew
that whatever Ibogaine can do towards regenerating the soft tissues of
corporeality, bones and metal plates are a different story.

I agree, Preston, that meeting each other diffuses the abstract
tension to conflicting ideas, and opens up more space for recognizing
the heart behind the heat.  I do wish you didn’t have to bang your
pain meds to get relief, because it always sounds like once you move
back into that it sets off another cycle.  I do wish your body wasn’t
suffering so…. I do wish… I do wish….

Academics tend to set up these typologies — maybe categories aren’t
always useful, but politically speaking, differentiating the TYPES of
opiate dependants and intoxicant vacationers who would likely benefit
from legal access to the Medicine might reduce the static between
interest groups.  We are all along a spectrum, of course, of varying
needs…

However, the ax you keep grinding on about what are the
responsibilities of a provider is getting old.  Providers do not seem
to me AT ALL as if they are “dealers” — and I object to your
slandering them in such a fashion out of personal pique at not getting
to play the game according to your rules.  If anything from the world
of Babylon, they seem to me like a cross between pharmacists,
nurse-practitioners, and psychedelic-therapeutic guides.  Because they
have to be practical about the limited distribution scope of their
resources, don’t you think?  It’s still a Schedule 1 offense you are
asking someone else to risk, altruistic or not, with all the potential
for a wonderful Civil Rights case or not, and there’s an awful lot of
street junkies and the clinic-cuffed and Pharma-tricked out there
needing a chance to get clean too.

“Where did he get it???!?” someone I thought was pretty well superfly
connected in the “psychedelic” world said to me back in November,
three weeks into Jeff’s  treatment, and all I could say was some
mumbled grateful pranams to the underground where the African
freedomroot travels on its new anti-addiction railroad.  I hope to
never lose that gratitude, even as all the players shine their
headlights through these clouds of political pharmaceutical healing
games.

Lokah Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu…. May all beings in all the worlds be happy.

xo rachy

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 24, 2005 at 2:19:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You always send me such wonderful suggestions, and I never thank you
for them, so thank you very much!!!  I had totally forgotten about the
whole acupuncture thing
and had some decent results with my own RLS years ago.  how quickly
the mind forgets the good things sometimes.
Love to you
tink
On 6/24/05, shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Tink ,how about trying some acupuncture ,i have had good results for RLS
and I have treated for allergies with excellant results, love shell

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far, and I don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment. I can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy ibogachoo
thingy any more. This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it. I have a constant head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with restlessness as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin, seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out the hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] from the real deal
Date: June 24, 2005 at 2:17:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WORK

He sees her walking slowly down 17th Street toward NE Miami Ave,
cigarette in hand, and a grim look on her face.  The sun is beating
down relentlessly, and she stops and puts her small black backpack on
the sidewalk, squatting in front of it with a bounce.  Her knees are
about as far away from each other as they can get, and the back of her
black pants is slipping down her ass very slowly, exposing the silvery
lines of the top of her thong.  The sunlight reflects off the
material, and for a second, it looks like God himself is giving him a
sign. She’s the one he has spent the better half of the morning
looking for.  She looks sweaty, and tired, and nauseous.
He feels a familiar tingle begin below his ears, and heat rushes
through his jaw, and into the pit of his stomach.  He reaches over the
steering wheel and turns the volume off of the radio, taking his foot
off of the gas, tapping the break.  As his car rolls up on her, she
jumps slightly, and squints over the top of her sunglasses.  Matching
pink shadows stretch down both of her pale cheeks, the tiny heart of
rhinestones flashes into his eyes as her head moves.  He comes to a
stop and rolls down his window, coughing to clear his throat.  His
eyes dart nervously around the street behind her, and he takes a quick
peek in his rear view window.               “You workin’?”  he asks,
coughing again, this time with his hand in front of his mouth.
She straightens herself up slowly, blood painfully rushing from
her knees and into her feet. She swings her backpack over her right
shoulder and  moves closer to the curb, not wanting to shout across
the empty lane between them.  She ruffles her long red bangs with her
fingers and tucks them behind her ear, scrutinizing him over the edge
of her shades.      “You a cop?”
The pit of his stomach drops out, and he nervously licks his lips
before replying.
“Do I look like a cop?”
His eyes flicker up to his rearview mirror again, and she sighs
and flicks her cigarette in the street between them.  A strand of hair
slips from behind her ear, and she pushes at it angrily, staring at
him for a second.  Abruptly, she turns on her heel and starts to
stride away from his car, mumbling angrily under her breath and
swinging her backpack around to the front of her chest.  She starts to
unzip the small pocket on the front.
He throws his car in reverse, steering erratically in his haste
to keep up with her.
“Hey!  HEY!  I’m not a cop!  Look, will you just stop for a sec…”
She spins angrily toward his car, whispering at the top of her
lungs, “Don’t you know it’s hot out here?!! Meet me at the Burger King
on Biscayne.”, and stomps down the street, crossing kitty-corner to an
unkempt median, its worn curbs crumbled in little piles all along the
edge.  A sawhorse with day-glo orange stripes lies on its side, the
light still flashing futilely at the grass it lays upon.  She examines
a line of red ants marching across the plastic as it blips a dull
orange, and aims herself at the Burger King on the far side of the
street.                 She can see his beat up Honda Civic hesitating
in front of the exit lane of the parking lot, then wobbling up the
steep incline as he pulls in.  She wipes sweat from her face, and
pulls her tank top down a bit, squirming into her back pack.  He has
parked in the only shaded area, in the back corner.  A tall chain link
fence surrounds the parking lot, trapping the fichus tree he’s parked
under.  There are three people sitting on milk crates under the tree,
not far from the car, and they eye it warily, not hearing her walk
toward them.  Light filters down through the tree, rippling like water
across their faces.  One of them hunts intensely near his feet,
lifting miniscule bits of concrete and flipping them back on the
ground, only to pick them back up again.  The other two are arguing
over a lighter, but keeping their eyes on the Honda.
“You just gonna sit there all day, waiting for the money fairy to
come bless your black ass, or you gonna figure out your feet work, and
go get you some.”
All three whip their heads up like mir cats, and the one hunting
on the ground breaks into a smile.
“Hey, South Beach!  You workin’?”
He stands, and swipes at the seat of his shorts with large hands
stuck on the end of spindly arms.  Suddenly, he doubles over.  “Oh
shit!  I had me a four cent piece sittin’ right here on my leg, and
YOU made me get up and drop it!  You own me, South Beach.  Got a hit?”
The smile never leaves his mouth, but never reaches his eyes.  He
is constantly shifting his weight from one side to the other,
alternate feet tapping as he moves.
The woman with the lighter is now looking expectantly up at her
face, and the boyish man sitting next to her is still looking at the
car, then back at her.
“Hey, man, she could be 5-0…” he blurts out, now looking from the
car to her, over at the woman on the crate, then back to the car.  The
whites of his eyes are getting larger, a yellowy hue at the edges.  He
has started to sweat more.
“Someone tell this Jit I’m not 5-0, and like Hell I owe you a
hit, you crack head!  I saw you playing rubble inspector over there.
If you had a hit, you smoked a hit.  You guys know if this dude’s
Nine?”
“If he Nine, he don’t arres’ no one.”
The woman on the crate shifts her considerable weight onto her
other knee, skirt dipping like a falling tent between her legs.
“Leas’ he never took me in.  I seen him with that Puerto Rican
girl?  With the long hair?  She got that NAS-tee Dominican man who
take all her money?  Anyways, he been drivin’ aroun’ for like a hour
or so.”
She taps at the bandana wound tightly across her forehead with
the inside of the top of her middle finger.  Her fingers are spread
daintily as she tries to beat her itchy scalp into submission, not
wanting to wreck her long, mango colored nails.
Pushing her unruly hair behind her ear once again, the white girl
looks over at the car, and back down at the woman on the crate.
“‘Ah-ite…” she says, smiling.  The woman on the crate glances over at
the car as well.
Digging through her pack for her cigarettes, she finds one and
stabs it into her mouth.  “Y’all still here when I get back, I’ll turn
y’on.”
The woman on the crate smiles sadly at her, and says, “You be
safe, now, Ma.  Just ‘cuz he white like you, don’ mean he don’ mean
you no harm…’
“She ain’t white,” quips the stick-figure man, who has returned
to his investigation on the ground.  “She albino!”
“Albino…” mutters the woman on the crate, still tapping at her
head as she shakes it.       The window starts to roll down on the
driver’s side of the car.  The silhouette of the man inside asks if
she’s coming or not.
“You get that man’s money, and don’ take no crap!” hollers the
woman from her crate.
Readjusting herself, the white girl stops to light her cigarette
and walks over to the passenger’s side, pulling open the door.  With
one foot in, she yells over the roof of the car, “If you don’t see me
in an hour, make sure you got his plates written down!”,and throws a
wink and a smile in their direction.
The woman on the crate looks over at the guy still searching on
the ground.  “She all right for a white girl,” she says, watching her
vanish into the car.  “You got the plates wrote down?”
“Naw.  You gonna do it?”
“None a mine business.” she says, and pulls out her stem and a
small twisted piece of metal hanger.
The car pulls out of the parking lot.   The white girl watches
the three of them grow smaller from inside the car.
The woman on the crate is pushing her screen from one end of the
stem to the other as the boyish man stares intently at her progress,
and the stick-figured investigator is reexamining the same little
piece of cement he had had in his hand when the white girl walked up.
No one noticed which way the car turned.

AIR CONDITIONING AND BANANA-FLAVORED CONDOMS

The car is unnaturally cold, and my sweaty skin is instantly
fused to the fake leather seat.  A chill passes through me, and I
shudder, watching little goose bumps appear up and down my arms.  I
reach to the controls on the door, opening the window a crack to let a
little heat in.
“Don’t do that!  Roll it back up!  Wait ’til we’re out of the
neighborhood!!”
I look over at my new companion for the first time since getting
into his car.  He is very nervous, and beads of sweat are gathering on
his thin upper lip, despite the artic blast from the a/c.  His hair is
starting to thin, and there are a few wisps of gray around his
temples, and on his thick eyebrows.  He licks his lips, and coughs
quietly into his hand.  His eyes never leave my face.  They are
serious eyes, a dark brown that almost looks black.  I think of a
shark and shudder again.  We are veering dangerously close to the
oncoming traffic, but I don’t really care.
“Didn’t your mother ever teach you any manners?” I ask, staring
back at him, refusing to remind him that he is still driving.
“Sorry.  PLEASE roll up the window.”  The word is stretched out
mockingly, and I keep my eyes on his, fumbling for the window button
on my door, and push it so the window goes up.
“Are you trying to kill us, or is it an subconscious
suicide-murder type-thing?”  I motion with my chin and eyes toward the
street we’re driving down.  He blinks, and a look of slight panic
floats into his eyes.  He turns his head back toward the front, and
has to swerve quickly to avoid hitting an oncoming car that’s trying
to turn right.  “Fuckin’ Miami drivers…” he growls.  I smirk, and let
the ashes from my cigarette land on the seat.  I brush them onto the
floor, rubbing in the little gray streak left near my thigh.
“Would you not do that?”
He’s looking at me, then the road, and back at me again.  I open
the window a crack, and he shakes his head slightly, the corners of
his mouth threatening to smile.
“So what can I do you for?” I ask, looking straight ahead.  The
Omni Station is passing on the left, the city busses pulling in and
out with no regard to other drivers.  There’s a lot of honking in this
neighborhood.  I can see American Airlines Arena up the road, and I
want him to make a decision quickly, before we drive under the 95
overpass.
“Well, what do you want to do?” he asks.  I look at him, and bite
my tongue, almost starting one of those, “I dunno know, what do YOU
want to do” exchanges. Instead, I ask him how much money he wants to
spend.
“I got a twenty with your name on it,” he says.  I tell him to pull
over and let me out.
“No, Ma! Wait.  I got a little more in here somewhere.  Don’t get out.”
“Show me how much you got,” I say, knowing it really doesn’t
matter.  I would’ve worked for the twenty, but it’s always worth a try
to see if you can get a little more.
“Look, I got thirty-nine dollars, and a pack of Newports,” His
eyes are hopeful and ashamed at the same time.
“I’m not gonna fuck you for thirty-nine dollars and a pack of
butts, even if they are Cadillac’s,” I say, still looking straight
ahead.   Cigarettes are a lot cheaper in the south, but brand names
are currently out of my price range, and I don’t really like menthols.
I know that I can trade them for something with somebody, though.
Freedom Tower is only four or five blocks away, up on the right,
and we’re stopped at a light in front of a Howard Johnson’s.  I can
see Miami Heat fans lining up in front of Triple A, on the left.  I
briefly wonder why they’re out this early.
“You got a spot?” he asks, hopefully.
“Yeah.  Turn around.  We’ll go down Biscayne to twenty-something.
There’s a good spot down near the Bay.”  He does a quick U-turn, tires
squealing a little bit, and heads back down under the 95 over pass.
“The Shaq!”  I burst out with, and he throws me a look that is a
little worried, and a little curious.  “Those people, at Triple A.
Shaq is coming today.  You know, Shaquille O’Neil?”  His face is
relieved, and he tosses me a vaguely amused smile.   “Oh, okay.
That’s why we’re going back this way.”
I make some kind of affirmative noise, and look out of my window.
“Turn down the next street.  Go to the end, and you have to turn off
your car.”
“But it’s hot…” It’s almost a whine, and it grates like
fingernails on a blackboard.  I throw him a dirty look.
“It’s hot in more ways than one.  You want to go to jail?”  He
shakes his head.  “Then turn off the car.”
We park, and he turns in his seat, arms trying to drape casually
over the steering wheel and headrest, legs spread as wide as the car
will allow.
“Well?” he asks, cocking an eyebrow.
“Give me the money first.”  I look over at him, and then dig
around for a condom in my backpack.  The only one I can find is
banana-flavored.  I hate bananas.  I look back up at him, my eyes
asking him what he’s waiting for.  He digs around for his wallet, and
pulls out a twenty, nineteen dollars in one’s, each of which he makes
a show of counting into an uneven pile on the seat in front of my
thigh.  He tries to touch my leg each time he flattens one out, but I
wiggle back in the seat a bit more with each attempt.  I scoop up the
cash, and jam it into the big part of my bag, which I tuck as far from
him as I can get it.
I open the wrapper of the condom, and the sickly smell of
manufactured banana flavor and something vaguely medicinal hits my
nose.  I close my eyes, trying not to breathe in, then look over at
him, saying, “Well?”  He fumbles with a thin belt and unzips his
slacks, digging around in his tighty-whitey’s.  He reaches for my
head.
I’m kneeling on the floor of the car now, and silently wishing
for this to be over quickly and safely.  I have a little prayer I
usually throw up to the wind before I work, saying, “Please let me be
swift, safe and solvent.”  I can never think of another word for money
that starts with an ‘s’.  Today is no exception.
As I allow his hands to pull my head closer to his crotch, I
think about biting him and running, but instead I put the condom in my
mouth, so I can suck it on, into place.  It usually speeds up the
process.
I try not to gag as a faint whiff of cheap cologne and urine
mingle with the awful scent of banana, and I stop breathing again, as
much as possible.  His hands grab me by the ears, and he tries to move
my head faster.  All I can do is silently urge him on, and try not to
bite, waiting for it to be over, so I can go and forget it ever
happened.  He’s groping down my back, trying to stick his hand down my
pants, and I slap his groping arm.
“You got a beautiful ass.  You should let me touch it.”
I look up at him from somewhere in his lap, and he says, “No, no,
don’t stop!  I’ll behave myself!”
I close my eyes again, and feel his fingers stroking my hair away
from my face.  I flip it back down across my forehead, not wanting him
to see me while I do this.  Not wanting him to see me at all.
“Hey, Ma!  Don’t hide; you got beautiful eyes.  I never seen eyes
that color green before.”
I nearly gag myself in my haste to be finished with him, and
finally, I feel his thighs tightening, and he moans quietly, clutching
at my ears and hair.  With a series of shudders and moans, I can feel
his grip relax, and I sit up, letting him deal with his own mess.  I
wipe my mouth across my wrist, and immediately light a cigarette I had
left out for just this reason.
“You got those Newports?” I ask.
“Sure, sure…” he digs around in the panel pocket of his door, and
flips them to me. “You work out here a lot?”
“I work when I need to.”
“Can I find you here again?  Are you out at night, too?  Or just in
the morning?”
“Just when I know I’m getting sick.  I’m out when ever.”
“You need a ride back up there?  You know, Overtown’s no place for a
white girl.  You need to be safe.  All kindsa freaks out here.”
Is this guy for real?
He opens his car door a crack, and tosses the limp condom through
the crack, and pulls it shut with a slam.  I look at him, and flick my
ashes on the floor of his car again.
“You can drop me near where you found me.”  I tell him.
“And I’m not white, I’m albino.”
I start giggling, and he shakes his head, turns the car on, and
drives back toward Biscayne Blvd.

love
tink

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] a brief moment of haziness
Date: June 24, 2005 at 2:05:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am currently in the computer lab at my last weekend for the
semester, and I feel like ripping someone’s head off and shoving it up
their retentive ass.  I’m not currently in the best of moods, and have
got a major downswing in progress, and feel much worse for having gone
to counselling this morning.  Not cool, tink.  I have that RUN
AWAY!!!!!! thing happening, and all I want to do is grab my shit and
flee.  But from what am I fleeing?  My family is having a collective
heart attack every time I breathe, and I feel like they keep waiting
for the other foot to drop, and  this impending disaster shit is SO
not what I need right now.  I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I
actually think that another stint in a half way house somewhere
wouldn’t be a bad idea.  Or something like that.  I haven’t got the
best living situation going, as it is not a “conducive for recovery”
type atmosphere and now that I’m officially “better”, everyone around
me is like, “Okay, where’s the success we know you have in you?
You’ve got about twenty years of bullshit to make up for and it’s
already been about a year… your SISTER doesn’t have shit that
stinks.”  I know, i know. Get off the pity pot and grow a pair.  Got
that.  I just get really sick of having to defend my every choice,
thought, and action.
I can deal with the familial bullshit on a certain level, but living
in a po-dunk town where I am BORED is not a good thing.  Especially
right now.  I keep thinking that i should go and turn myself in in
Miami and get that over with, but not having any idea how much time
I’m actually looking at makes me nervous.  Apparently I can turn
myself in here in VT and if Florida doesn’t come for me in 30 days,
all charges are dropped.  but this is florida.  What’s that saying?
Come to florida on vacation, leave on probation, come back on
violation?  I have a friend who was extradited from San diego on a
traffic violation.  My luck is not that good.
Anyway, I let myself get behind in my school work and am now finding
that I have no idea where have of the shit i wrote ended up, and know
that when my other computer crashed and burned(quite literally-thanks
to my friend’s 15 year old son and his rowdy rottweiler) I lost a
bunch of stuff.  I have gone 12 days past the turn in date for my
final packet, and have no idea how to explain the whole, “Well, you
see…there’s this root that the Bwiti tribe in Gabon use as a
ritualistic, vision quest type healing, welcome to your life
experience, and one of the side effects of it is it interrupts
addiction, so i did it, and was so completely wiped out that i could
barely stand for almost three weeks and now I AM getting my shit back
together, but i need a little more time.” thing to the Mommy Memoir
Club and my illustrious teachers.  They haven’t been able to wraop
their heads around “the real deal” yet, and can’t seem to get past the
fact that I openly admit that I was, and will always carry a little
bit of, a raging junky.  I can see the questions in their eyes, and
would love to answer them, but you know how that goes.  It’s like
saying, “Hi I have the bubonic plague AND a really bad head cold.  Can
I sneeze on you.  Please?”
harumph.
Okay, enough of my shit for the day.  Time to go find out whether or
not I pass or fail.
“Come out upon my seas
cursed missed opportunities
Am i part of the cure
Or i am i part of the disease”
-coldplay

Thankyou all once again for the excellent allergy advice. You da man Dr Tom!!

I love you all
tink

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers : help i’m on the abyss
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:39:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh Randy… I identify.  There’s a line to a bad String Cheese
Incident song that goes “I’m searching for answers to questions that I
can’t define….”

Go dance?  Take a yoga class?  Move your body and find some access to
the inner nonlinear light being that pervades your physicality?

(Jeff is making back-seat internet suggestions here about getting laid
that I can’t quite type with the right tone of masculine-laden
innuendo code that doesn’t transmit well through my fingertips)

We’re goin’ dancin’ tonight with a buttery string band, and then
rollin’ down to L.A. for another hug from Ammachi.  “There’s a Saint
six hours away!” says Jeffy, and so there we go.  You are welcome to
come with us to see her when she’s in NYC in mid-July.  Or D.C. before
that, around July 12-13-14, depending on where you are doin’ your
thing at the time.  There’s a whole lotta love vibin’ in that joint!!!

We loooooovveeeee you!!! xo rachy

On 6/21/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com <biscuitboy714@aol.com> wrote:
So here I go again, I’m searching and don’t know what I’m
looking for.        Randy

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:34:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Out of the 5, two of us have been retreated the rest have a considerable amount of clean time after 1 session. It took the other 2 of us three times to get this far. With our last dose being the biggest for both of us.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the
>last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of
>them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday
>and today alone.. <

First of all Mark, what do you mean exactly by staying “clean,” and this 4
(and a half-just kidding) is out of how many “treated?” I’m not being
argumentative, only trying to figure out exactly what sort of “success”
rates have been found in NYC, and what is being considered as “success” by
various people.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.

First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the
last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of
them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday
and today alone..
As most of you know I have had a couple of attempts at this over the past
year. First taking a moderate amount of Ibogaine in Mexico and putting
together 4 months after detoxing from a shit load of Methadone and a bunch
of dope… then slipping with heroin for a week and taking a rather small
dose of Ibogaine…. then putting together another month or so before
falling again mostly because a week wasn’t enough time to really get my ass
kicked and remember how hard and unfulfilling a life it is for me…. and
now I’m coming up on 3 months AGAIN after taking a rather Large dose of
Ibogaine.
I think my story is a lot more common than people think and its not the
worst thing in the world either. For starters, I have had more clean time
this year than I can remember having in a long time. Yeah this year has been
a hell ride in a lot of respects but every time I’ve fallen and gotten up
with the help of that spirit Rocky mentioned and I feel a little more whole
when I’m back on my feet each time out. This time, and I realize I’ve had
this amount of time before, but I have no desire to use dope at all. Theres
nothing attractive about it at all right now. Dana compares it to peeling
and onion, who knows. But the therapeutic value of this session was more
than I ever even imagined possible after the last two. Howard said something
about how “we all know what the issues are and that Ibogaine enables that
discussion” or something close to that. Well, I never experienced anything
like that until this time around. I got what “going real! ly deep” was all
about and it wasn’t what I tohught it would be at all. It was so much more!
But I don’t know.
But are we all doomed? No fuckin way.
I think that there is something about this crazy medicine that feeds on our
true intentions and if we intend to shoot dope again we certainly will but
if we want to be free from this and change our lives then it will eventually
show us the way out. This year as I’ve said has been more unmanageable than
I would have liked but I guess walking around for the first time in 10 years
or so without any “painkillers” in my system wasn’t supposed to be easy.
Also, about the debate on should we be able to do it ourselves. I’m really
torn on that one because although I agree with everything Rocky and the
“provider that will remain nameless” said. I also know that after my relapse
this winter if I could have copped Ibogaine on the corner or ordered it on
the internet I would have. I see people on the street everyday that don’t
have the money to do this and I know that if it was more easily accessible
more people would have a chance. But a shit load more people would die as
well!
I think one of the first things I said after this last session was “I never
would have been able to do that by myself- Thank you” because I thought
about doing the po box thing, or even asking one of you kind folks that
don’t live under such oppressive regimes to order and send me some more
times than I could remember when I couldn’t come up with the cash for a
treatment. But its a rough ride no doubt about it and I think theres a lot
to letting someone who has been called to this, especially someone who ain’t
making shit, sit and help you though because that’s where they want to be.
That’s just my opinion.
Also Preston, from what I remember you have a pretty hard time with this
stuff. I go though unusually fast and have never puked and theres no way I
could have gone though this time with a family member or my girlfriend. It
can be a pretty terririfing ordeal, no?
You wouldn’t do a large therapeutic dose on your own would you?

Rocky wrote…

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a
decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in
the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not
a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has
many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable
but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing
as best it can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically
respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the
spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most loving and powerful
life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you
personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be
appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit
otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most
part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most
times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and
get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the
time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into
their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the
adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6
sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey
if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded
chances are they are not really interested in changing their lives and
being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it
all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday,
lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it
all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break
.. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially
like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love
through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone
they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never
know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself
but try it.
rocky

Ibogi Boogie Boogie wrote:
“Better keep yourself clean and bright; you are the window through which you
must see the world.”
~ George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
British playwright & novelist

“Keep close to Nature’s heart . . . and break clear away, once in awhile,
and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.”
~ John Muir (1838-1914)

American naturalist

“When he tries to extend his power over objects, those objects gain control
of him. He who is controlled by objects loses possession of his inner
self… Prisoners in the world of object, they have no choice but to submit
to the demands of matter! They are pressed down and crushed by external
forces: fashion, the market, events, public opinion. Never in a whole
lifetime do they recover their right mind!… What a pity!”
~ Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC-c. 275 BC)

“Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical
narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the
victim from reality.”
~ John William Gardner (1912-)
—– Original Message —–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a
decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in
the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not
a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has
many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable
but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing
as best it can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically
respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the
spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most loving and powerful
life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you
personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be
appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit
otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most
part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most
times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and
get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the
time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into
their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the
adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6
sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey
if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded
chances are they are not really interested in changing their lives and
being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it
all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday,
lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it
all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break
.. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially
like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love
through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone
they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never
know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself
but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet wrote:
>What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Edi! tor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

>
> This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
> have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
> not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
> wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
> of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.
>
> Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here! a lot, I
> know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
> new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.
>
> My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
> you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
> discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
> is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
> then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.
>
> Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
> a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
> will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
> heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.
>
> Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?
>
> My second question is about guides and treatment in! stead of ibogaine
> itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
> where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
> After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
> doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
> doing.
>
> What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
> and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
> happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
> having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
> this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
> there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
> dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
> and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
> instructions?
>> .:vector:.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>
>
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:20:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Without being present or providing medical advice, I would suggest that
whatever worked previously in the non-ibogaine situations would work equally well,
or not, in this case.  Sounds like an anxiety reaction to me.  Why doesn’t
your friend ask his doctor for a suggestion?  There appears to be no adverse drug
interaction between ibogaine and benzodiazepines (valium) based on concurrent
use of benzodiazepines in ibogaine therapy for decades.  However, his own
doctor should sign off on anything he does.

Howard

In a message dated 6/24/05 12:02:31 PM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
doesnīt take any drugs.

since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i donīt think
itīs the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
shingles, pain in his nerves etc.

he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didnīt knew, and he
probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. itīs just that
he feels so bad he says itīs life threatening. he got some valium for
emergency cases.

he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
with itīs anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
regarding his health with great caution and wouldnīt just buy some
iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
taste.

so any comments or suggestions?

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 12:49:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you, Shelley!  I thought it was just me!  I’d never had anxiety before, but after each ibogaine session suffered so badly I had to take Zanax.  The farther away I got, the less and less they occurred, but still it wasn’t fun.  Makes me feel better now that I know it’s not just me!

All my love to you all!
Beatrice

On 6/24/05 9:38 AM, “shelley krupa” <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Ekki ,how about your friend taking some valium now , if that doesnt work ,perhaps an antipsychotic to help thru this crisis point? ibogaine makes me very anxiuos too ,but I learned how to surrender to it ,but most times valium helped alot ,maybe he can figure it all out later, once hes thru this part love shell

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Ekki,

From what you’ve put down, I don’t think this guy should take a full dose of
iboga. If he manifests a strong reaction from such a tiny dose, however it’s
actually being caused, I don’t think it’s good to take more. Better he
starts working one-to-one or in groups, talking about feelings, childhood,
this kind of stuff. About spiritual/psychosomatic, maybe that’s what it is
but it’s still needed to talk about where you are emotionally and socially
to help get more integrated.

Something I’ve noticed over the years is that a fairly big sub-group of the
people that are attracted to ibogaine therapy seem to be so because they
want to “go it alone.” They want to get off drugs or move on in life but
they want to do it THEIR OWN WAY! No therapists, no groups, no rehab, this
kind of thing, you just take a drug and then hang out. They don’t  want to
let others in so much, except where they can keep control. It’s ok, and for
some the ibo will maybe do something, but for a lot no. It’s not gonna be
their path and at some stage they’ll have to trust a bit more and take the
plunge into more revealing work.

This is just my personal opinion. I’m qualified as therapist but not a
psychiatrist so I’m not an expert about psychosis.

Nick

> —–Original Message—–
> From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
> Sent: 24 June 2005 16:00
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
>
>
> a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
> it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
> he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
> doesn´t take any drugs.
>
> since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i  don´t think
> it´s the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
> or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
> with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
> thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
> shingles, pain in his nerves etc.
>
> he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didn´t knew, and he
> probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
> hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. it´s just that
> he feels so bad he says it´s life threatening. he got some valium for
> emergency cases.
>
> he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
> with it´s anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
> ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
> taking a small dose, then later maybe a full  trip. he handles anything
> regarding his health with great caution and wouldn´t just buy some
> iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
> taste.
>
> so any comments or suggestions?
>
>
> ekki
>
>
>
>
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 12:38:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki ,how about your friend taking some valium now , if that doesnt work ,perhaps an antipsychotic to help thru this crisis point? ibogaine makes me very anxiuos too ,but I learned how to surrender to it ,but most times valium helped alot ,maybe he can figure it all out later, once hes thru this part love shell

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Ekki,

From what you’ve put down, I don’t think this guy should take a full dose of
iboga. If he manifests a strong reaction from such a tiny dose, however it’s
actually being caused, I don’t think it’s good to take more. Better he
starts working one-to-one or in groups, talking about feelings, childhood,
this kind of stuff. About spiritual/psychosomatic, maybe that’s what it is
but it’s still needed to talk about where you are emotionally and socially
to help get more integrated.

Something I’ve noticed over the years is that a fairly big sub-group of the
people that are attracted to ibogaine therapy seem to be so because they
want to “go it alone.” They want to get off drugs or move on in life but
they want to do it THEIR OWN WAY! No therapists, no groups, no rehab, this
kind of thing, you just take a drug and then hang out. They don’t want to
let others in so much, except where they can keep control. It’s ok, and for
some the ibo will maybe do something, but for a lot no. It’s not gonna be
their path and at some stage they’ll have to trust a bit more and take the
plunge into more revealing work.

This is just my personal opinion. I’m qualified as therapist but not a
psychiatrist so I’m not an expert about psychosis.

Nick

> —–Original Message—–
> From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
> Sent: 24 June 2005 16:00
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
>
>
> a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
> it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
> he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
> doesn´t take any drugs.
>
> since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i don´t think
> it´s the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
> or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
> with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
> thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
> shingles, pain in his nerves etc.
>
> he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didn´t knew, and he
> probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
> hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. it´s just that
> he feels so bad he says it´s life threatening. he got some valium for
> emergency cases.
>
> he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
> with it´s anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
> ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
> taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
> regarding his health with great caution and wouldn´t just buy some
> iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
> taste.
>
> so any comments or suggestions?
>
>
> ekki
>
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 12:29:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki,

From what you’ve put down, I don’t think this guy should take a full dose of
iboga. If he manifests a strong reaction from such a tiny dose, however it’s
actually being caused, I don’t think it’s good to take more. Better he
starts working one-to-one or in groups, talking about feelings, childhood,
this kind of stuff. About spiritual/psychosomatic, maybe that’s what it is
but it’s still needed to talk about where you are emotionally and socially
to help get more integrated.

Something I’ve noticed over the years is that a fairly big sub-group of the
people that are attracted to ibogaine therapy seem to be so because they
want to “go it alone.” They want to get off drugs or move on in life but
they want to do it THEIR OWN WAY! No therapists, no groups, no rehab, this
kind of thing, you just take a drug and then hang out. They don’t want to
let others in so much, except where they can keep control. It’s ok, and for
some the ibo will maybe do something, but for a lot no. It’s not gonna be
their path and at some stage they’ll have to trust a bit more and take the
plunge into more revealing work.

This is just my personal opinion. I’m  qualified as therapist but not a
psychiatrist so I’m not an expert about psychosis.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 24 June 2005 16:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga

a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on
it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today
he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he
doesn´t take any drugs.

since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i don´t think
it´s the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis
or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact
with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he
thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression,
shingles, pain in his nerves etc.

he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didn´t knew, and he
probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we
hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. it´s just that
he feels so bad he says it´s life threatening. he got some valium for
emergency cases.

he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him,
with it´s anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do
ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first
taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything
regarding his health with great caution and wouldn´t just buy some
iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the
taste.

so any comments or suggestions?

ekki

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] psycho after tasting iboga
Date: June 24, 2005 at 10:59:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a friend recently took a very tiny crumb of iboga root bark and chew on it for a while. he felt anxious immediatly. that was on monday. today he calls me and said that he is close to madness and suicide since. he doesnīt take any drugs.

since the amount of iboga he ingested was extremely small i donīt think itīs the chemical action of the ibogaine that triggered his psychosis or whatever it is. he had similar states before without any contact with iboga. actually he has a number of reoccuring problems – which he thinks are somehow spiritual or psychosomatic – including depression, shingles, pain in his nerves etc.

he asked about an antidote to ibogaine which i didnīt knew, and he probably needs something different anyhow. we both agreed in that we hope his discomfort is part of a larger healing process. itīs just that he feels so bad he says itīs life threatening. he got some valium for emergency cases.

he got interested in ibogaine because he thought it might help him, with itīs anti-depressant and anti-viral properties. he planed to do ekg, blood/liver test etc. and then try iboga in late summer, first taking a small dose, then later maybe a full trip. he handles anything regarding his health with great caution and wouldnīt just buy some iboga and gulp it down. last monday he only wanted to experience the taste.

so any comments or suggestions?

ekki

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 24, 2005 at 10:09:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Tink ,how about trying some acupuncture ,i have had good results for RLS and I have treated for allergies with excellant results, love shell

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far, and I don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment. I can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy ibogachoo
thingy any more. This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it. I have a constant head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with restlessness as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin, seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out the hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sorta OT-ish
Date: June 24, 2005 at 7:34:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Having a laugh at this guy, Dr H.  Interesting-ish rest of site too.
http://www.heroinhelper.com/letters/you_suck.shtml

Kirk

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:24:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday and today alone.. <

First of all Mark, what do you mean exactly by staying “clean,” and this 4 (and a half-just kidding) is out of how many “treated?” I’m not being argumentative, only trying to figure out exactly what sort of “success” rates have been found in NYC, and what is being considered as “success” by various people.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.

First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday and today alone..
As most of you know I have had a couple of attempts at this over the past year. First taking a moderate amount of Ibogaine in Mexico and putting together 4 months after detoxing from a shit load of Methadone and a bunch of dope… then slipping with heroin for a week and taking a rather small dose of Ibogaine…. then putting together another month or so before falling again mostly because a week wasn’t enough time to really get my ass kicked and remember how hard and unfulfilling a life it is for me…. and now I’m coming up on 3 months AGAIN after taking a rather Large dose of Ibogaine.
I think my story is a lot more common than people think and its not the worst thing in the world either. For starters, I have had more clean time this year than I can remember having in a long time. Yeah this year has been a hell ride in a lot of respects but every time I’ve fallen and gotten up with the help of that spirit Rocky mentioned and I feel a little more whole when I’m back on my feet each time out. This time, and I realize I’ve had this amount of time before, but I have no desire to use dope at all. Theres nothing attractive about it  at all right now.  Dana compares it to peeling and onion, who knows. But the therapeutic value of this session was more than I ever even imagined possible after the last two. Howard said something about how “we all know what the issues are and that Ibogaine enables that discussion” or something close to that. Well, I never experienced anything like that until this time around. I got what “going real! ly deep” was all about and it wasn’t what I tohught it would be at all. It was so much more! But I don’t know.
But are we all doomed? No fuckin way.
I think that there is something about this crazy medicine that feeds on our true intentions and if we intend to shoot dope again we certainly will but if we want to be free from this and change our lives then it will eventually show us the way out. This year as I’ve said has been more unmanageable than I would have liked but I guess walking around for the first time in 10 years or so without any “painkillers” in my system wasn’t supposed to be easy.
Also, about the debate on should we be able to do it ourselves. I’m really torn on that one because although I agree with everything Rocky and the “provider that will remain nameless” said. I also know that after my relapse this winter if I could have copped Ibogaine on the corner or ordered it on the internet I would have. I see people on the street everyday that don’t have the money to do this and I know that if it was more easily accessible more people would have a chance. But a shit load more people would die as well!
I think one of the first things I said after this last session was “I never would have been able to do that by myself- Thank you” because I thought about doing the po box thing, or even asking one of you kind folks that don’t live under such oppressive regimes to order and send me some more times than I could remember when I couldn’t come up with the cash for a treatment. But its a rough ride no doubt about it and I think theres a lot to letting someone who has been called to this, especially someone who ain’t making shit, sit and help you though because that’s where they want to be. That’s just my opinion.
Also Preston, from what I remember you have a pretty hard time with this stuff. I go though unusually fast and have never puked and theres no way I could have gone though this time with a family member or my girlfriend. It can be a pretty terririfing ordeal, no?
You wouldn’t do a large therapeutic dose on your own would you?

Rocky wrote…

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break .. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Ibogi Boogie Boogie <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
“Better keep yourself clean and bright; you are the window through which you must see the world.”
~ George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
British playwright & novelist

“Keep close to Nature’s heart . . . and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.”
~ John Muir (1838-1914)

American naturalist

“When he tries to extend his power over objects, those objects gain control of him. He who is controlled by objects loses possession of his inner self… Prisoners in the world of object, they have no choice but to submit to the demands of matter! They are pressed down and crushed by external forces: fashion, the market, events, public opinion. Never in a whole lifetime do they recover their right mind!… What a pity!”
~ Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC-c. 275 BC)

“Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality.”
~ John William Gardner (1912-)
—– Original Message —– From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break .. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Edi! tor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here! a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment in! stead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?
.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:12:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit <

And to be honest Rocky, this comment pisses me off so much I can only say I want to spit. My old music teacher during my senior year of high school said something to me one day while I was fooling around and not paying attention in class, giggling with a girl while flirting. He said to me, “Preston, one day I’d love to see you cry. You’re always laughing and playing and I’d like to see you cry for once.” I stood up and said fuck you, and walked out.
I had spent the three semesters of the preceding junior year out of school due to a serious car accident that tore me apart, left me full of metal in various places, broken bones that didn’t mend quite straight in places, arthritis, fucked up spine and leg, missing large and small intestines and a variety of other things, an affinity for opiates being just one of the results of this accident. So for you to tell me I need to sacrifice makes me want to laugh in your face of spit on you, one of the other, I’m not quite sure how I feel about it right now at 6AM, up and working my ass off as I do every day, getting up at the crack of dawn to try and do whatever I can to end the stinkin’ horrorshow that is the war on drugs for almost no money or recompense. So sacrifice isn’t what I usually call what I do with my life, but you can take your judgement calls and leave me out of them.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

I glad to say I disagree with you Rocky, and hope you the best in whatever you do.

this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it.<

I would like to point out though that first of all, I’m going to let your judgement call bounce right off of me.
Second of all, ibogaine has taught me something each time I’ve done it, whether I’ve publicly declared what that learning is or not- for the most part it’s not for sharing, it’s very personal stuff. I could swear that I did just point out in a very recent post, yep, just this morning at 8:35AM, that when talking about my after “treatment” plans, I first wrote:

…I still feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but still
struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of
other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with, each
of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this
“addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition.<

And that I felt that:

If one of those ways [of dealing with my life in the way I see giving me the least stress and the most happiness while causing myself and those around me the very least harm- I add now at 7:26PM the same day I posted this original statement] happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to help keep an opiate use pattern in control,<

And most importantly as regards your comment about “the spirit that dwells in the root”:

or even were it simply to broaden my mind and
explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or
me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?<

In other words, I’m not sure where you get off putting your ideas about how ibogaine should be taken into my life and somehow deciding that the best way for you to deal is obviously going to be the best for me? Of so that’s the message I get from your seemingly haughty and judgemental post here.

everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost<

Where in the world you got the idea that 5 or 6 session on ibogaine and I’ll have lost any usefullness from taking this spiritual, magical, blessing of a plant is completely beyond me, and I can’t begin to guess where that attitude or statement came from, on what you’re basing it. Knowing people on this very list who not only have taken ibogaine a LOT more times than 5 or 6 times, and some even taking it a LOT more than 5 or 6 times and never once having taken it for ADDICTION reasons leaves me laughing at your attitude of “oh, this plant is too sacred to be misused by amatures who think they know all after a few sessions,” which isn’t what I’ve ever said- I’ve only ever said that after a few sessions I’ve thought of ideas and seen things from new perspectives that could and probably always will evolve and change and grow and strenghten and do all sorts of other positive things. But I can’t imagine the usefulness being “lost” at all. Sorry you feel that way, and I’m glad I don’t.

oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.<

After watching me struggle through the hell of various addictive abuse patterns over the years, watching me take ibogaine was magical for my loved one, and she was extremely happy to not only have had the honor of being with me through such an experience, she was extremely happy to have seen me and continue to see me grow and evolve since my taking ibogaine, three times now and quite possibly again at some point.
On one note- I’ve been told repeatedly now by my provider that the second “treatment” doesn’t “count” because it wasn’t really for an “addiction” issue, it was more for “psycho-spiritual” reasons, which I gotta admit pisses the hell out of me, and is a GLARING example of the issue I’m trying to address:

I knew what I wanted when taking ibogaine a second time. I knew that I had not gotten what I needed the first time around, and wanted to go again to further explore some of the issues I had touched on briefly during my first experience, or to at least make the attempt to further explore the issues that make me who I am and to further cement some of the feelings I had found- but someone along the provider line, between me and the stuff, decided they knew better than I what I needed, so while charging me more than the first time ’round, they gave me a LOT less than I expected, and needed. And I knew it even though they didn’t tell me this until months and months later- I knew it as soon as I came to my senses in half the time it took me to the first time ’round, and when I felt so angry and frustrated for no apparent reason immediately upon coming to my senses as well. This is a perfect example of why I myself am frustrated at so far having to go through someone else to obtain ibogaine, and that it is illegal so I can’t simply order it from the company and know for a fact exactly what I’m getting, weight and quality wise (not that there were any quality issues with what I got- only weight issues). I felt the genuine need for another full “treatment” dose and didn’t get it due to someone else deciding they knew better than I what I was hearing the plant and my own brain telling me.
I feel badly that someone might not want their loved one nearby them when going through something like an ibogaine session, or feel that that’s an imposition upon their loved one. I guess I’m lucky that way.

Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.<

Ok, now that you’ve told me to, I’m going to leap up and run out and get outta myself. Give it a try. It’ll be a new thing, never tried that before.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break .. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Edi! tor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here! a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment in! stead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?
.:vector:.

__________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.
Date: June 24, 2005 at 6:06:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You wouldn’t do a large therapeutic dose on your own would you?<

At this point, yes Mark, I would.
And from what I can, I would not be the first by any means or strech of the imagination to have done so- but “on my own” would NOT mean “alone,” only not with some kind of dealer/provider hanging about my place with their own agendas and ideas about what results and aims should be. I would certainly want someone to be with me in the house/apartment/hospital/whereever I would up taking it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.

First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday and today alone..
As most of you know I have had a couple of attempts at this over the past year. First taking a moderate amount of Ibogaine in Mexico and putting together 4 months after detoxing from a shit load of Methadone and a bunch of dope… then slipping with heroin for a week and taking a rather small dose of Ibogaine…. then putting together another month or so before falling again mostly because a week wasn’t enough time to really get my ass kicked and remember how hard and unfulfilling a life it is for me…. and now I’m coming up on 3 months AGAIN after taking a rather Large dose of Ibogaine.
I think my story is a lot more common than people think and its not the worst thing in the world either. For starters, I have had more clean time this year than I can remember having in a long time. Yeah this year has been a hell ride in a lot of respects but every time I’ve fallen and gotten up with the help of that spirit Rocky mentioned and I feel a little more whole when I’m back on my feet each time out. This time, and I realize I’ve had this amount of time before, but I have no desire to use dope at all. Theres nothing attractive about it  at all right now.  Dana compares it to peeling and onion, who knows. But the therapeutic value of this session was more than I ever even imagined possible after the last two. Howard said something about how “we all know what the issues are and that Ibogaine enables that discussion” or something close to that. Well, I never experienced anything like that until this time around. I got what “going real! ly deep” was all about and it wasn’t what I tohught it would be at all. It was so much more! But I don’t know.
But are we all doomed? No fuckin way.
I think that there is something about this crazy medicine that feeds on our true intentions and if we intend to shoot dope again we certainly will but if we want to be free from this and change our lives then it will eventually show us the way out. This year as I’ve said has been more unmanageable than I would have liked but I guess walking around for the first time in 10 years or so without any “painkillers” in my system wasn’t supposed to be easy.
Also, about the debate on should we be able to do it ourselves. I’m really torn on that one because although I agree with everything Rocky and the “provider that will remain nameless” said. I also know that after my relapse this winter if I could have copped Ibogaine on the corner or ordered it on the internet I would have. I see people on the street everyday that don’t have the money to do this and I know that if it was more easily accessible more people would have a chance. But a shit load more people would die as well!
I think one of the first things I said after this last session was “I never would have been able to do that by myself- Thank you” because I thought about doing the po box thing, or even asking one of you kind folks that don’t live under such oppressive regimes to order and send me some more times than I could remember when I couldn’t come up with the cash for a treatment. But its a rough ride no doubt about it and I think theres a lot to letting someone who has been called to this, especially someone who ain’t making shit, sit and help you though because that’s where they want to be. That’s just my opinion.
Also Preston, from what I remember you have a pretty hard time with this stuff. I go though unusually fast and have never puked and theres no way I could have gone though this time with a family member or my girlfriend. It can be a pretty terririfing ordeal, no?
You wouldn’t do a large therapeutic dose on your own would you?

Rocky wrote…

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break .. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Ibogi Boogie Boogie <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
“Better keep yourself clean and bright; you are the window through which you must see the world.”
~ George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
British playwright & novelist

“Keep close to Nature’s heart . . . and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.”
~ John Muir (1838-1914)

American naturalist

“When he tries to extend his power over objects, those objects gain control of him. He who is controlled by objects loses possession of his inner self… Prisoners in the world of object, they have no choice but to submit to the demands of matter! They are pressed down and crushed by external forces: fashion, the market, events, public opinion. Never in a whole lifetime do they recover their right mind!… What a pity!”
~ Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC-c. 275 BC)

“Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality.”
~ John William Gardner (1912-)
—– Original Message —– From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break .. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Edi! tor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here! a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment in! stead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?
.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] family in the treatment process
Date: June 24, 2005 at 5:54:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And
its not clear to either of us whether my endless hand-holding during
the hot baths and listening to derepressed traumatic stories was as
“therapeutic” a release as it might have unfolded in dialog with a
trained transpersonal counselor.

love, rachel<

I look to you and your man as an example for me in my own relationship, as inspiration really, when I feel down or insecure Rachel. You are an angel, just as much so and probabaly even more so than the provider angels themselves.
You and JEff certainly both inspire me when I stop to remember you two and think about where you are and how far you’ve come. Plus, I really enjoyed meeting the both of you at the conference and at 9Bleeker, so that gives me a bit of bias for you two too.
😉

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Eye of the Bhogi” <freedomroot@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] family in the treatment process

On 6/23/05, ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com> wrote:
i don’t hear so much about the  spirit that dwells in the root that
its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging
energys on the planet
Right on, Rocky!

oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially
like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love
through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone
they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never
know what will happen in an ibogaine detox…

I blame ALL of my gray hairs that sprouted between August — when my
husband started talking seriously about taking the treatment — and
March — when he finally got back to work and back into a groove — on
the stress of imagining the worst possible outcomes.  Not to project
them, the fears, into being.  But to be ready to let go of him if he
took this risky road, and to deal with his rawness, and to worry about
the possibilities of relapse when he had been so stable.

And at the same time, I was grateful to be there to help him take a
piss, to coax him into hydrating, to fetch food when it was time, and
to hold his hand or just be present in whatever way comforted him.
Maybe it’s different when you are married…. the individual selves
are not quite so distinct… but if our relationship were different,
or the nature of our codependence more enmeshed, perhaps it would have
been a total disaster to have me there.  As it was, I had to listen
hard to hear the cautions and advice from our Ibo-Angels in the
aftermath about giving him plenty of space to have his process.  And
its not clear to either of us whether my endless hand-holding during
the hot baths and listening to derepressed traumatic stories was as
“therapeutic” a release as it might have unfolded in dialog with a
trained transpersonal counselor.

love, rachel

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 24, 2005 at 2:36:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The instructions should be at the bottom of the emails you get!
Heh, I guess I should wish you all the best, and I am sorry to hear about all the troubles, terrible about your niece L
And finally, sorry about all the mundane emails!!!
Love and all the best for you
Kirk
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 5:59 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???

could someome tell me how to get off this list!!! Not mad just acnt handle all the nesages anymore. I would appreciate it, thanks

————– Original message ————– 

> L’il Randy, 
> He has to WANT to stop drinking in order for any of it to work…email me 
> love to you and hi from katie 
> tink 
> 
> On 6/23/05, Capt Kirk wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Andddddddddd I’ve read somewhere that it didn’t work for an alcoholic…… so 
> > once again… it’s so individual…..unless there is a common thread 
> > somewhere.,… post behaviour/environment? 
> > 
> > Congratulations I;m very happy fer you J 
> > 
> > KIrsty 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________ 
> > 
> > 
> > From: JulieLakeside@aol.com [mailto:JulieLakeside@aol.com] 
> > Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:50 p.m. 
> > T o: RowdyRandy420@aol.com; Ibogaine@mindvox.com 
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment??? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > i went to St. Kitts last Jan. My last drink was Jan 4 and I have not missed 
> > it a single bit. Around someone who is drinking I feel almost as if I were 
> > watching someone chewing tobacco…can’t miss it because I really don’t 
> > remember ever doing it or wanting to. Very strange but wonderful. I have 
> > been doing a LOT of reading since my ibogaine journey…Jung, Joseph 
> > Campbell etc and have just recently joined the room. I do not have the words 
> > to express what magic this plant has brought into my life…not only by 
> > helping to free me from my addiction, but by openning my mind and spirit to 
> > so much that has always been around me..just waiting to be discovered and 
> > loved. 
> > 
> > For anyone thinking about an ibogaine treatment for alcoholism….It Worked 
> > For Me!!! 
> > Julie

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] allergy relief for tink, let’s all clap
Date: June 24, 2005 at 2:02:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tink:

You need some natural medicines right away. The drug store cowboy world
just keeps money going from your wallet to theirs, or haven’t you noticed?

Find a larger, older health food store and get capsules of Freeze-dried
nettles and coriander (separate capsules) The freeze dried form has the
formic acid that nettles sting with still intact. Both of these herbs will
stabilize your mast cells so they aren’t so hair trigger in relasing
histamine for every little problem. They don’t shut down the histamine,
because your immune system really needs that, they just toughen the cell
wall so it can handle more stress before it lets the histamine go.

Sort of like the fingertips of a street musician toughening up to the task
of performing.  I would start with a dose of two nettle capsules and one
coriander, with water every 3 hours while you’re having an attack, and
then down to a dose like that twice a day for a while as “maintainance”
through allergy season. It’s non-toxic so you could gag the whole bottle
down and only have an overly nourished upset tummy, but that dose range
should get you some relief.

If you hate pills of any kind and live near some cool dark forests, go
find the nettles, pick them and make fresh tea instead.  That get’s a
little painful for us armchair herbalists, tho.

Be well.

Dr. Tom

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:59:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

could someome tell me how to get off this list!!! Not mad just acnt handle all the nesages anymore. I would appreciate it, thanks

————– Original message ————–

> L’il Randy,
> He has to WANT to stop drinking in order for any of it to work…email me
> love to you and hi from katie
> tink
>
> On 6/23/05, Capt Kirk wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Andddddddddd I’ve read somewhere that it didn’t work for an alcoholic…… so
> > once again… it’s so individual…..unless there is a common thread
> > somewhere.,… post behaviour/environment?
> >
> > Congratulations I;m very happy fer you J
> >
> > KIrsty
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: JulieLakeside@aol.com [mailto:JulieLakeside@aol.com]
> > Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:50 p.m.
> > To: RowdyRandy420@aol.com; Ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
> >
> >
> >
> > i went to St. Kitts last Jan. My last drink was Jan 4 and I have not missed
> > it a single bit. Around someone who is drinking I feel almost as if I were
> > watching someone chewing tobacco…can’t miss it because I really don’t
> > remember ever doing it or wanting to. Very strange but wonderful. I have
> > been doing a LOT of reading since my ibogaine journey…Jung, Joseph
> > Campbell etc and have just recently joined the room. I do not have the words
> > to express what magic this plant has brought into my life…not only by
> > helping to free me from my addiction, but by openning my mind and spirit to
> > so much that has always been around me..just waiting to be discovered and
> > loved.
> >
> > For anyone thinking about an ibogaine treatment for alcoholism….It Worked
> > For Me!!!
> > Julie

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:57:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey everybody I have been off hydrocdone for almost a month and I feel great. I appreciate you all and for my sake this will not be some where I hope  to be back. I am saying that in a very respectful way. I hope that I never relapse.I had one of the worst weeks that anyone in there life could have had and I  handled it ,and I never even thought about a lortab not Once!!Just to give you an idea on how my week started. I got a call from my office and was told that my secretary stole over $3000 and she moved to chicago and turned her phone off, So I may never see her again. Just vanished. Then a call from a friend that was buying a very expensive couputer from me and when he recieved it the monitor didnt work. So I had to pay for him to ship it back I needed that money that he was paying for it. I bought Insurance so we wll see about that tomorrow. But here is the next call that I got and I couldnt believe it. It was my sister calling me to tell me that my 17 year old neice just died in a car accident, and trust me there was many other things that I had problems with  all at the same time. It would take a month to tell you so I want..My  point is that with all that I didnt even think about a lortabs. Love to you all. If anyone out there is trying to get clean vou need to try to get on the subetex. There are doctors but you have to locate them on the internet that will give it to you outpatient. It was the easiest thing that I have ever done. I know that this is a Ibogaine list so not trying to get anyone mad at me. Eveyone I have talked to from this site dont care as long somone gets clean, I admire that. If anyone wants to know about that email me off the list

> He has to WANT to stop drinking in order for any of it to work…email me
> love to you and hi from katie
> tink
>
> On 6/23/05, Capt Kirk wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Andddddddddd I’ve read somewhere that it didn’t work for an alcoholic…… so
> > once again… it’s so individual…..unless there is a common thread
> > somewhere.,… post behaviour/environment?
> >
> > Congratulations I;m very happy fer you J
> >
> > KIrsty
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: JulieLakeside@aol.com [mailto:JulieLakeside@aol.com]
> > Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:50 p.m.
> > To: RowdyRandy420@aol.com; Ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
> >
> >
> >
> > i went to St. Kitts last Jan. My last drink was Jan 4 and I have not missed
> > it a single bit. Around someone who is drinking I feel almost as if I were
> > watching someone chewing tobacco…can’t miss it because I really don’t
> > remember ever doing it or wanting to. Very strange but wonderful. I have
> > been doing a LOT of reading since my ibogaine journey…Jung, Joseph
> > Campbell etc and have just recently joined the room. I do not have the words
> > to express what magic this plant has brought into my life…not only by
> > helping to free me from my addiction, but by openning my mind and spirit to
> > so much that has always been around me..just waiting to be discovered and
> > loved.
> >
> > For anyone thinking about an ibogaine treatment for alcoholism….It Worked
> > For Me!!!
> > Julie

From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] LSD addiction ?!!?
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:50:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, the reason I was looking at that is that I read an article somewhere that said LSD promotes growth (repair?) of dopamine receptors.  Cant find that article now.

Has anyone read or knows anything about this?

Boris

—- Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

This is hilarious.

http://www.lsdaddictiontreatment.com/

At first I thought they used LSD to treat addiction.

Then it dawned on me that they are treating addiction to LSD.

hahahaha

I cant wait for the first centre that treats addiction to Ibogaine.

hmmm, no, thats not funny..

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Therapy: A ‘Vast, Uncontrolled Experiment’
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:43:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Another newish article.

Not much news here, in fact it all seems paraphrased from something I read somewhere else??

One new thing though- the study thats about to start in Tel Aviv. First mention I’ve seen of that.

” ADDICTION RESEARCH: Ibogaine Therapy: A ‘Vast, Uncontrolled Experiment’ — Vastag 308 (5720): 345 — Science (15th Of April 2005)

Despite potentially harsh side effects, an African plant extract is being tested in two public clinical trials–and many clandestine ones
On a snowy President’s Day, an odd group of activists and scientists devoted to treating addiction gathered in an art gallery in the Chelsea warehouse district of New York City. As an all-night, all-day rave throbbed next door, panelists outlined the latest developments in a decades-long movement to mainstream a West African plant alkaloid, ibogaine, that purportedly interrupts addiction and eliminates withdrawal.

Sustained by true believers who operate largely outside the academic medical world, research on the vision-inducing drug is gaining attention, despite its U.S. status as a banned substance. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved a clinical trial in 1993, but the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) decided not to fund it after consultants raised questions about safety.

The plant extract can be neurotoxic at high doses and can slow the heart. Yet a handful of scientists continue to study it for its potential in treating addiction. The enthusiasts who gathered in New York reviewed efforts to tease apart its antiaddictive and hallucinatory components.

Although a PubMed search for “ibogaine” pulls up some 200 articles on laboratory studies, clinical reports cover just a few dozen patients. That’s because patients seek treatment clandestinely. “Whether the FDA likes it or not, the fact of the matter is that … hundreds, probably thousands of people … have been treated with ibogaine,” said Stanley Glick, a physician and pharmacologist at the Albany Medical Center in New York who has documented ibogaine’s antiaddictive potential in rodents. At the meeting, Kenneth Alper, a Columbia University assistant professor of psychiatry, estimated that more than 5000 people have taken ibogaine since an organized (but unregulated) clinic opened in Amsterdam in the late 1980s. Boaz Wachtel, an ibogaine advocate in Israel, believes that 30 to 40 clinics operate worldwide. Listed alongside heroin, LSD, and marijuana on the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration’s schedule I of banned substances, ibogaine is nevertheless legal in most of the world.

“There’s basically a vast, uncontrolled experiment going on out there,” said Frank Vocci, director of antiaddiction drug development at NIDA. The agency spent several million dollars on preclinical ibogaine work in the 1990s before dropping it.

Ibogaine’s promoters yearn for the legitimacy that a successful clinical trial can bring. They may soon get their wish. Later this spring, neuroscientist Deborah Mash of the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida, will launch a phase I safety trial in Miami. A second safety and efficacy trial, of 12 heroin-addicted individuals, is slated to begin this fall at the Beer Yaakov Mental Health Center in Tel Aviv. Both are being funded in an unusual fashion: by anonymous donations–$250,000 for Mash, a smaller amount for the Israeli study.

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] LSD addiction ?!!?
Date: June 24, 2005 at 1:22:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is hilarious.
http://www.lsdaddictiontreatment.com/

At first I thought they used LSD to treat addiction.

Then it dawned on me that they are treating addiction to LSD.

hahahaha

I cant wait for the first centre that treats addiction to Ibogaine.

hmmm, no, thats not funny..

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 24, 2005 at 12:51:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

L’il Randy,
He has to WANT to stop drinking in order for any of it to work…email me
love to you and hi from katie
tink

On 6/23/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:

Andddddddddd I’ve read somewhere that it didn’t work for an alcoholic…… so
once again… it’s so individual…..unless there is a common thread
somewhere.,… post behaviour/environment?

Congratulations I;m very happy fer you J

KIrsty

________________________________

From: JulieLakeside@aol.com [mailto:JulieLakeside@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:50 p.m.
To: RowdyRandy420@aol.com; Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???

i went to St. Kitts last Jan. My last drink was Jan 4 and I have not missed
it a single bit. Around someone who is drinking I feel almost as if I were
watching someone chewing tobacco…can’t miss it because I really don’t
remember ever doing it or wanting to. Very strange but wonderful. I have
been doing a LOT of reading since my ibogaine journey…Jung, Joseph
Campbell etc and have just recently joined the room. I do not have the words
to express what magic this plant has brought into my life…not only by
helping to free me from my addiction, but by openning my  mind and spirit to
so much that has always been around me..just waiting to be discovered and
loved.

For anyone thinking about an ibogaine treatment for alcoholism….It Worked
For Me!!!
Julie

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] MOTHER NATURE IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!
Date: June 24, 2005 at 12:46:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have never had allergies like I’ve had this year so far, and I don’t
know whether it was seasonal timing or what, but it seems as though
it’s gotten a million times worse since my treatment.  I can’t
breathe, I sneeze constantly, and it’s not that goosebumpy ibogachoo
thingy any more.  This is AGONY!! My head feels like it’s going to
implode, and Nasonex simply does NOT cut it.  I have a constant head
ache, my throat hurts, and i also have Restless Legs Syndrome-what
fun- and can’t take anything that has pseudoephedrine HCL in it or
it’s like 6 hours of dope sick. Anything at all with restlessness as a
side effect is horrible for me, including periactin, seroquyl,
etc,(which I’m not taking for ANY reason, but found that out the hard
way at the Brattleboro Retreat last time I went in to detox off of
methadone).
ANY suggestions GREATFULLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!
tinkachoo
kaffkaffsniffledribbletwitch

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 24, 2005 at 12:34:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you so much for a little smack in the ass back toward the right
direction!! Like Kirkie says, I’m very sorry for your losses, and very
VERY happy for your success!!  It’s all so different for everyone, and
nothing works if we don’t work on it as hard as we can;it’s easy to
forget that some times.
I often get exactly what I need to hear on this list, right when I
need to hear it(whether I like it or not) and again thank you for
opening up. It was perfect timing in a rough spot.
Friggin’ San Antonio….(kidding!! sort of…not that a bad a spot ;])
Love to you and yours
tink
On 6/23/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:

Thank YOU Jeff, for reminding us that we can get too caught up in making
rules when we must remember that it’s not going to be the same for
EVERYONE!!!! Doh!!

Sorry for your past pain.

Happy for your present situation J

Bwiti Love

Kirsty Dawn

________________________________

From: Jeff Gallop [mailto:jeffgallop@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 1:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hello fellow ibonaunts,iboangels,ibospouses etal…

Jeff G here,from foggy,sunny,foggy,suny, San Fransisco. REading the list
almost regulary and following the many many interesting threads going and
coming these past few monthas and especially the past few days, I just
wanted to check in.

To refresh i was treated in NYC almost 7 months ago for a loooong term
Methadone  habit, a habit i NEVER thought would end, well it6 has ended and
it was the toughest thingi have ever done barr buring my wife aftertelling
my 6 year old son (now 18) his mother was dead (from an OD) I will say
firstly as far as a family member present during treatment and post
treatment for me it was a LIFESAVER! MY Iboangelspouse is a saint in my eyes
for puting up with what we call my rebirth..I was amewling infant then an
arrogant adolescent and finally a newly born adult dealing with things that
had not (

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 23, 2005 at 11:52:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andddddddddd I’ve read somewhere that it didn’t work for an alcoholic…… so once again… it’s so individual…..unless there is a common thread somewhere.,… post behaviour/environment?
Congratulations I;m very happy fer you J
KIrsty
From: JulieLakeside@aol.com [mailto:JulieLakeside@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 2:50 p.m.
To: RowdyRandy420@aol.com; Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???

i went to St. Kitts last Jan. My last drink was Jan 4 and I have not missed it a single bit. Around someone who is drinking I feel almost as if I were watching someone chewing tobacco…can’t miss it because I really don’t remember ever doing it or wanting to. Very strange but wonderful. I have been doing a LOT of reading since my ibogaine journey…Jung, Joseph Campbell etc and have just recently joined the room. I do not have the words to express what magic this plant has brought into my life…not only by helping to free me from my addiction, but by openning my  mind and spirit to so much that has always been around me..just waiting to be discovered and loved.

For anyone thinking about an ibogaine treatment for alcoholism….It Worked For Me!!!
Julie

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 11:50:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank YOU Jeff, for reminding us that we can get too caught up in making rules when we must remember that it’s not going to be the same for EVERYONE!!!! Doh!!
Sorry for your past pain.
Happy for your present situation J
Bwiti Love
Kirsty Dawn
From: Jeff Gallop [mailto:jeffgallop@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 1:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Hello fellow ibonaunts,iboangels,ibospouses etal…
Jeff G here,from foggy,sunny,foggy,suny, San Fransisco. REading the list almost regulary and following the many many interesting threads going and coming these past few monthas and especially the past few days, I just wanted to check in.
To refresh i was treated in NYC almost 7 months ago for a loooong term Methadone  habit, a habit i NEVER thought would end, well it6 has ended and it was the toughest thingi have ever done barr buring my wife aftertelling my 6 year old son (now 18) his mother was dead (from an OD) I will say firstly as far as a family member present during treatment and post treatment for me it was a LIFESAVER! MY Iboangelspouse is a saint in my eyes for puting up with what we call my rebirth..I was amewling infant then an arrogant adolescent and finally a newly born adult dealing with things that had not (

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Pain Relief in the ‘Land of Plenty’
Date: June 23, 2005 at 11:34:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr Portenoy was my Pain Doc in NYC almost 20 years ago, he is one of the fathers of modern pain management using long term opioid therapy (ie when MS-Contin first came out and methadone, an option he gave me). He is very open minded, knew all about my “history”, had no problem treating me or holding back in any way, he is also as good a doctor as you will ever find, a real professional, really understands pain…. I would have to agree with him on the following statement as he sees it. First over half the patients if given opioids would stop due to side effects alone, that is over 50% right off the top assuming everyone needed opioid treatment, many others do not. Very many people don’t want to go on opioid therapy or use “DRUGS”, people with drug histories and those in 12 step programs will be avoiding that kind of treatment like the plague. There are implantable devices like morphine pump – it is not a high-dose treatment/not habituating, it pumps into the spinal fluid in very tiny amounts, there are also a implantable TENS type units….  Then there is the pain that responds better to other forms of therapy than opioids, I do poorly on them but for some a lot of the anti-seizure and AED’s work on certain kinds of pain like cluster headaches, there are nerve blocks and injections, nerve abliterations (sp), sterioids, anti-inflamitories/NSAIDS and very many different people and medical conditions of all sorts that will require a variety of treatments. My brother got a new hip! took some perc’s after the surgery, that was chronic-disabling pain, my mom gets facet blocks from spinal degeneration, likely some tylenol #3 is the most narcotic she would take.. What Dr, Portenoy is saying out of all those chronic/disabling pain patients 10% will be helped by long term high dose treatment (as in habituating opioid treatment), he didn’t say don’t medicate or treat them for pain. The reply was mis-directed.”I bet to differ”.

Brett

“Dr. Russell K.
Portenoy, chairman of pain medicine and palliative
care at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York,
cites surveys estimating that as many as 6 to 10
percent of Americans suffer from chronic, disabling
pain. He speculates that maybe 1 in 10 of them could
benefit from long-term, high dose treatment.”

I beg to differ. If a patient has “chronic, disabling
pain,” I maintain that 10 out of 10 of them could
benefit from long-term, high-dose treatment. Something
tells me that if Russell suddenly found himself in
chronic disabling pain, he might alter his opinion.
Quality of medicine takes a nosedive”

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: the lawyerdude ; project grasp ; chacon
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Pain Relief in the ‘Land of Plenty’

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/douglass1.html

Pain Relief in the ‘Land of Plenty’

by William Campbell Douglass II, MD

God have mercy on you if you live in this “Land of
Plenty” and develop some form of horrific pain. You’ll
end up with “plenty” alright: plenty of unnecessary
pain and suffering. The government is so obsessed with
“fighting” drugs that they’ve destroyed the ability of
doctors to reduce suffering among their patients.

A recent example of this, published in The New York
Times, is typical of the mess we are in. Five years
ago, Frank Fisher, M.D., was arrested by goons from
the California Gestapo (known as the Attorney
General’s office) and charged with drug trafficking
and murder. And what was Dr. Fisher actually guilty
of? He was guilty of relieving his patients’ severe
pain with legal narcotics for which he had a license
to prescribe. After five months in jail, loss of his
home and practice, he was released and told it was all
a mistake. The patients who had died succumbed from
their injuries or from medical illnesses, not from the
narcotics Dr. Fisher prescribed. But these “apologies”
(if you can call them that) are too little too late
for Dr. Fisher and his family: His practice and his
reputation are ruined. And who’s going to compensate
them? No one. The state is the state. It has no sense
of responsibility or morality. It is not a source for
good, as pinko liberals think in their childish minds.
It is a continuous source of evil.

Dr. Fisher’s case is not at all unusual. Even patients
are not immune. Richard Paey, a patient suffering from
intractable pain, was unable to obtain enough Percocet
to relieve his pain, so he forged undated prescription
forms his doctor had given him to get what he needed
to relieve his misery. He refused to take a plea
bargain when charged as he maintained he was innocent.
He never sold a pill; he paid for the medication, and
maintained he was being denied his right to pursue a
pain-free life. So he received a 25-year sentence for
pleading not guilty. He is now in jail, in a
wheelchair, and on a morphine pump.
Cops take charge of your medical care

To understand the duplicity of the Drug Enforcement
Agency (DEA) and to be clear as to whose side they are
on, consider their behavior earlier this year. They
publicly acknowledged the need for a “principle of
balance” to address the necessity of access to pain
medications. Their document was, according to Dr.
Sally Satel who authored the New York Times article I
referenced above, a thoughtful and lucid description
of the problem of prosecuting doctors. But the agency
pulled the document from the Web a few months later
claiming there were “misstatements” in it.

How can the narcotic police judge individual cases
intelligently, assuming they are intelligent, when
they do not know the patient and they know nothing
about medicine in the first place?

As Dr. Satel stated in her article, “It is not known
how many patients need long-term treatment with
opioids, particularly at high doses. Dr. Russell K.
Portenoy, chairman of pain medicine and palliative
care at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York,
cites surveys estimating that as many as 6 to 10
percent of Americans suffer from chronic, disabling
pain. He speculates that maybe 1 in 10 of them could
benefit from long-term, high dose treatment.”

I beg to differ. If a patient has “chronic, disabling
pain,” I maintain that 10 out of 10 of them could
benefit from long-term, high-dose treatment. Something
tells me that if Russell suddenly found himself in
chronic disabling pain, he might alter his opinion.
Quality of medicine takes a nosedive

Thanks to cases like Dr. Fisher’s, which are becoming
increasingly common, doctors are quitting by the
hundreds. Many are switching to nursing because it is
less stressful, less responsibility, less malpractice,
and shorter work hours. As a result of this “doctor
shortage,” the quality of applicants admitted to
medical school has decreased to allow more people into
the profession in order to fill the gap.

CAT scans, a multi-million-dollar laboratory and
computerized EKG readings will not compensate for dumb
doctors. I have seen this in many third world
countries: Some of them have remarkably sophisticated
equipment (paid for by guess who) but because of the
low quality of the doctors, they are still dangerous
places to get seriously ill. This is a scenario coming
soon to an operating theater near you.

The quality of medicine and the status of doctors are
deteriorating concomitantly. And so is the publics’
attitude toward them. As doctors become less affluent,
respect for them declines. They envy those with high
incomes, nice cars, and big homes on the water. But if
a doctor drives an old Dodge and wears Wal-Mart shoes,
the consensus seems to be: “Who would go to him? Look
at the car he drives.”

This is the road to ruin for American medicine.
Unfortunately, there’s not a whole lot we can do about
it.

Action to take:

My best advice to you is to pay close attention to
your doctor’s credentials and treatment techniques.
Odds are if you suspect he doesn’t know what he’s
doing, you’re probably right.

If that’s the case, I suggest you look for a new
doctor – preferably one who can help you get the pain
relief you need. Physicians with a background in
alternative medicine are usually more understanding
about this sort of thing, and are better equipped to
offer you numerous options for pain relief than
mainstream docs. To locate an alternative physician
near you, contact the American College for Advancement
in Medicine (800-532-3688; 714-583-7666).

References:

“Doctors Behind Bars: Treating Pain Is Now Risky
Business,” The New York Times, 10/19/2004

“AAPS Supports Due Process in Licensure,” AAPS News
2004: 60(8)

June 23, 2005

William Campbell Douglass II, MD, writes the medical
newsletter, Real Health Breakthroughs, and the free
E-letter, Daily Dose. His numerous books and
monographs are available from www..drdouglass.com.

“In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is a revolutionary
act.”-George Orwell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the
people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who
mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good
masters, but they mean to be masters.” — Daniel Webster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Great empires cannot subsist without great armies, and liberty cannot
subsist with them.” – Cato, anti-federalist

“We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage
where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens
may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of
human history, the stage of rule by brute force.” [Ayn Rand, The Nature of
Government]

For Liberty in Our Lifetime,
R.J. Tavel, J.D., Founder

Liberty’s Educational Advocacy Forum
http://freedomlaw.com
promotes “action that raises the cost of State violence for its perpetrators
… lay(ing) the basis for institutional change.” [Noam Chomsky]

Freedom Law.com Self Help Clinic and Sovereign Law Library
http://freedomlaw.com/selfhelp.htm
Not a high-tech law firm brochure, “because a lawyer is only as smart as you
make him ” [Max Katz] and “the Law . . . should be accessible to every man
and at all times.” [Franz Kafka]

Attorney-Written Instant On-Line Tutorials Simplify Lawsuit Procedure
http://www.jurisdictionary.com/index.asp?refercode=%20tr001

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: JulieLakeside@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 23, 2005 at 10:49:57 PM EDT
To: RowdyRandy420@aol.com, Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i went to St. Kitts last Jan. My last drink was Jan 4 and I have not missed it a single bit. Around someone who is drinking I feel almost as if I were watching someone chewing tobacco…can’t miss it because I really don’t remember ever doing it or wanting to. Very strange but wonderful. I have been doing a LOT of reading since my ibogaine journey…Jung, Joseph Campbell etc and have just recently joined the room. I do not have the words to express what magic this plant has brought into my life…not only by helping to free me from my addiction, but by openning my  mind and spirit to so much that has always been around me..just waiting to be discovered and loved.

For anyone thinking about an ibogaine treatment for alcoholism….It Worked For Me!!!
Julie

From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 9:45:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oops trying again to get it right

On 6/23/05, Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello fellow ibonaunts,iboangels,ibospouses etal…
Jeff G here,from foggy,sunny,foggy,sunny, San Fransisco. Reading the list almost regulary and following the many many interesting threads going and coming these past few monthas and especially the past few days, I just wanted to check in.
To refresh i was treated in NYC almost 7 months ago for a loooong term Methadone  habit, a habit i NEVER thought would end, well apparently it has ended and it was the toughest thing i have ever done bar burying my wife after telling my 6 year old son (now 18) his mother was dead (from an OD)

I will say firstly as far as a family member present during treatment and post treatment for me it was a LIFESAVER! MY Iboangelspouse is a saint in my eyes for puting up with what we call my rebirth..I was a mewling infant- then an arrogant adolescent- and finally a newly born adult- dealing with things that had not ( and may still not be ) dealt with in/for many many years and with out her support i would never have made it she is as much a part of my success(?) as anything….and her meditating presence in the room during my deepest moments of Ibojourneying was nothing short of amazing( I think for us both tho only she can speak for her…grey hairs not withstanding)

As far as providers from my point of view anyway…no  one is getting rich here folks, no one is getting power, no one is getting much of anything except a feeling that they are doing what they have been called to do. Some come out of treatment and feel compelled to do this work,I for one have never felt that way I am glad to help in other ways but to be a provider uh uh not this freak…i would almost rather shoot battery acid in my dick than have that responsibility and calling….

Ibogaine  is a fucking miracle…Iboproviders in all there many forms are angels…and to be any less than absolutely grateful (note to Preston not directed only or  specifically at you my man dont freak on me) seems senseless and just plain grumpy!

Tink love your writing….Randy miss your smiles call me (D has #)….and  everyone else i love you we are in the coolest “club” ever………………. Ibonaunts!!!

Grateful dont come close!

Freely Freaked
Freaking Free…
Jeff

From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 9:15:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello fellow ibonaunts,iboangels,ibospouses etal…
Jeff G here,from foggy,sunny,foggy,suny, San Fransisco. REading the list almost regulary and following the many many interesting threads going and coming these past few monthas and especially the past few days, I just wanted to check in.
To refresh i was treated in NYC almost 7 months ago for a loooong term Methadone  habit, a habit i NEVER thought would end, well it6 has ended and it was the toughest thingi have ever done barr buring my wife aftertelling my 6 year old son (now 18) his mother was dead (from an OD) I will say firstly as far as a family member present during treatment and post treatment for me it was a LIFESAVER! MY Iboangelspouse is a saint in my eyes for puting up with what we call my rebirth..I was amewling infant then an arrogant adolescent and finally a newly born adult dealing with things that had not (

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] list of famous opiate addicts…
Date: June 23, 2005 at 8:58:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actors / Actresses / Models / Directors
• Nick Adams (actor)
• Bridgette Andersen (actress)
• John Drew Barrymore (actor)
• John Belushi (actor, comedian)
• Timothy Carey (actor)
• Seymour Cassel (actor)
• Montgomery Clift (actor)
• Jean Cocteau (writer, filmmaker)
• Jackie Curtis (actor)
• Robert Downey Jr. (actor)
• Jeanne Eagels (actress)
• Chris Farley (actor)
• Whoopi Goldberg (actress)
• Dennis Hopper (actor, director)
• Brion James (actor)
• Peter Lorre (actor)
• Bela Lugosi (actor)
• Jason Mewes (actor)
• Kate Moss (actress, model)
• River Phoenix (actor)
• Miguel Piñero (writer, actor)
• Daniel Pollock (actor)
• Nicholas Ray (film director)
• Mickey Rourke (actor)
• Winona Ryder (actress)
• Martin Scorsese (director)
• Ray Sharkey (actor)
• Tom Sizemore (actor)
• Christian Slater (actor)
• Olive Thomas (actress)
• Danny Trejo (actor)
• Gia Carangi (model)
• Althea Leasure (model)
[edit]

Musicians / Singers / Songwriters / Composers
• Art Alexakis (musician)
• Gregg Allman (musician)
• Gene Ammons (musician)
• Phil Anselmo (musician)
• Chet Baker (musician)
• Michael Balzary a.k.a. Flea (musician)
• Art Blakey (musician)
• Mike Bloomfield (musician)
• Graham Bond (musician)
• Lenny Breau (musician)
• Tim Buckley (singer-songwriter)
• Sandy Bull (musician)
• Paul Butterfield (musician)
• John Cale (musician)
• Nick Cave (musician)
• Serge Chaloff (musician)
• Jimmy Chamberlin (musician)
• Paul Chambers (musician)
• Ray Charles (singer)
• Charlie Christian (musician)
• Eric Clapton (musician)
• Sonny Clark (musician)
• Kurt Cobain (musician)
• John Coltrane (musician)
• Chris Cornell (musician)
• David Crosby (musician)
• Tadd Dameron (musician/arranger)
• Evan Dando (musician)
• Miles Davis (musician)
• Dion DiMucci (singer)
• Pete Doherty (musician)
• Steven Drozd (musician)
• Bob Dylan (singer-songwriter)
• Bill Evans (musician, pianist)
• Bob Ezrin (music producer)
• Marianne Faithfull (singer, actress)
• Perry Farrell (singer)
• Ace Frehley (musician)
• John Frusciante (musician)
• Jerry Garcia (musician)
• Dave Gahan (musician)
• Boy George (singer)
• Stan Getz (musician)
• Bobby Gillespie (singer)
• Dwayne Goettel (composer)
• Dexter Gordon (musician)
• Grant Green (musician)
• Wardell Grey (musician)
• Joe Guy (musician)
• Charlie Haden (musician)
• Tim Hardin (singer/songwriter)
• Hampton Hawes (musician)
• Tubby Hayes (musician)
• Billie Holiday (singer)
• Saul Hudson a.k.a. Slash (musician)
• Milt Jackson (musician)
• Brian James (musician)
• Joan Jett (musician)
• Elvin Jones (musician)
• Mick Jones (musician)
• Philly Joe Jones (musician)
• Steve Jones (musician)
• Janis Joplin (singer)
• Antony Kiedis (musician)
• Paul Kossoff (musician)
• John Lennon (musician)
• Julian Lennon (singer)
• Courtney Love (musician, actress)
• Phil Lynott (musician)
• Bert McCracken (musician)
• Jonathan Melvoin (musician)
• Jose Monje Cruz a.k.a. Camaron de la Isla – singer
• Frank Morgan (musician)
• Lee Morgan (musician)
• Jim Morrison (musician)
• Gerry Mulligan (musician)
• Dave Mustaine (musician)
• Dave Navarro (musician)
• Fats Navarro (musician)
• Jerry Nolan (musician)
• Bradley Nowell (musician)
• Anita O’Day (singer)
• Yoko Ono (singer)
• Jimmy Page (musician)
• Charlie “Bird” Parker (musician)
• Joe Pass (musician)
• Christa Päffgen a.k.a. Nico (singer, actress, model)
• Edith Piaf (singer)
• “Little” Richard Penniman (singer)
• Art Pepper (musician)
• Carl Perkins (musician)
• Joe Perry (musician)
• Esther Phillips (singer)
• John Phillips (musician)
• Iggy Pop (singer, actor)
• Bud Powell (musician)
• Elvis Presley (singer)
• Ike Quebec (musician)
• Robert Quine (musician)
• Dee Dee Ramone (musician)
• Lou Reed (musician)
• Emily Remler (musician)
• Keith Richards (musician)
• Max Roach (musician)
• Red Rodney (musician)
• Sonny Rollins (musician)
• Axl Rose (musician)
• Shaun Ryder (musician)
• Bon Scott (musician)
• Nikki Sixx (musician)
• Hillel Slovak (musician)
• Elliott Smith (musician)
• Layne Staley (musician)
• Sonny Stitt (musician)
• Gabor Szabo (musician)
• James Taylor (musician)
• Johnny Thunders (musician)
• Pete Townshend (musician)
• Richard Twardzik (musician)
• Jeff Tweedy (musician)
• Steven Tyler (musician)
• Sid Vicious (musician)
• Scott Weiland (singer)
• Andrew Woods (singer)
• Tony Williams (musician)
• Brian Wilson (musician)
• Mike Doughty (musician)
• Darby Crash (musician)
[edit]

Writers / Poets / Journalists
• William S. Burroughs (writer)
• Max Cantor (journalist)
• Samuel Taylor Coleridge (poet)
• Sigmund Freud (psychiatrist, writer)
• John Keats (poet)
• Ken Kesey (writer)
• Jack London (writer)
• Friedrich Nietzsche (philosopher, writer)
• Thomas de Quincey (writer) Confessions of an English Opium Eater
• Françoise Sagan (writer)
• Sir Walter Scott (writer, poet)
• Hubert Selby Jr. (writer)
• Stephen Dohnberg (writer,poet,journalist)
• Will Self (writer)
• Jerry Stahl (writer)
• Robert Louis Stevenson (writer)
• Alexander Trocchi (writer)
• William Wilberforce (writer, anti-slavery campaigner)
• Wilkie Collins (writer)
• Jack Kerouac (writer)
• Hunter S. Thompson (writer, new journalist)
• Edgar Allen Poe (writer, poet)
[edit]

Artists / Painters
• Jean-Michel Basquiat (artist)
• Francis Picabia (painter)
• Pablo Picasso (painter)
• Santiago Rusiñol (painter)
[edit]

Politicians / Rulers / Royals
• Harry Anslinger (US director of the Bureau of Narcotics)
• Marcus Aurelius (emperor, philosopher)
• Otto von Bismarck (Preussian prince, German statesman)
• Benjamin Franklin (inventor, statesman)
• Ulysses S. Grant (US president, general)
• Hermann Göring (Nazi Reichsmarschall)
• Joseph McCarthy (US senator)
[edit]

Athletes / Olympians
• Bobby Chacon (boxer)
• Sonny Liston (boxer)
• Joe Louis (boxer)
• Todd Marinovich (football player)
• Sugar Ray Robinson (boxer)
• Barney Ross (boxer)
[edit]

Other Celebrities
• Lenny Bruce (comedian)
• Aleister Crowley (occultist)
• The Pigeons (occultist)
• Harold Shipman (Doctor, Serial Killer)
• Mitch Hedberg (comedian)
• Howard Hughes (tycoon, film producer, aviator)
[edit]

References
Self, Will – Feeding Frenzy (2002)
Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_opiate_addicts”
Categories: Lists of people

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I glad to say I disagree with you Rocky, and hope you the best in whatever
you do.

>this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that
>dwells in the root that its one of the most loving and powerful life
>course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you
>personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be
>appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit
>otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most
>part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most
>times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and
>get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the
>time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into
>their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the
>adjustments to eliminate it.<

I would like to point out though that first of all, I’m going to let your
judgement call bounce right off of me.
Second of all, ibogaine has taught me something each time I’ve done it,
whether I’ve publicly declared what that learning is or not- for the most
part it’s not for sharing, it’s very personal stuff. I could swear that I
did just point out in a very recent post, yep, just this morning at 8:35AM,
that when talking about my after “treatment” plans, I first wrote:

>…I still feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but
>still
struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of
other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with, each
of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this
“addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition.<

And that I felt that:

>If one of those ways [of dealing with my life in the way I see giving me
>the least stress and the most happiness while causing myself and those
>around me the very least harm- I add now at 7:26PM the same day I posted
>this original statement] happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to
>help keep an opiate use pattern in control,<

And most importantly as regards your comment about “the spirit that dwells
in the root”:

>or even were it simply to broaden my mind and
explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or
me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?<

In other words, I’m not sure where you get off putting your ideas about how
ibogaine should be taken into my life and somehow deciding that the best way
for you to deal is obviously going to be the best for me? Of so that’s the
message I get from your seemingly haughty and judgemental post here.

>everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought
>gets established and the usefullness is lost<

Where in the world you got the idea that 5 or 6 session on ibogaine and I’ll
have lost any usefullness from taking this spiritual, magical, blessing of a
plant is completely beyond me, and I can’t begin to guess where that
attitude or statement came from, on what you’re basing it. Knowing people on
this very list who not only have taken ibogaine a LOT more times than 5 or 6
times, and some even taking it a LOT more than 5 or 6 times and never once
having taken it for ADDICTION reasons leaves me laughing at your attitude of
“oh, this plant is too sacred to be misused by amatures who think they know
all after a few sessions,” which isn’t what I’ve ever said- I’ve only ever
said that after a few sessions I’ve thought of ideas and seen things from
new perspectives that could and probably always will evolve and change and
grow and strenghten and do all sorts of other positive things. But I can’t
imagine the usefulness being “lost” at all. Sorry you feel that way, and I’m
glad I don’t.

> oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl
> freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through
> the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they
> love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never
> know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of
> yourself but try it.<

After watching me struggle through the hell of various addictive abuse
patterns over the years, watching me take ibogaine was magical for my loved
one, and she was extremely happy to not only have had the honor of being
with me through such an experience, she was extremely happy to have seen me
and continue to see me grow and evolve since my taking ibogaine, three times
now and quite possibly again at some point.
On one note- I’ve been told repeatedly now by my provider that the
second “treatment” doesn’t “count” because it wasn’t really for an
“addiction” issue, it was more for “psycho-spiritual” reasons, which I gotta
admit pisses the hell out of me, and is a GLARING example of the issue I’m
trying to address:

I knew what I wanted when taking ibogaine a second time. I knew that I had
not gotten what I needed the first time around, and wanted to go again to
further explore some of the issues I had touched on briefly during my first
experience, or to at least make the attempt to further explore the issues
that make me who I am and to further cement some of the feelings I had
found- but someone along the provider line, between me and the stuff,
decided they knew better than I what I needed, so while charging me more
than the first time ’round, they gave me a LOT less than I expected, and
needed. And I knew it even though they didn’t tell me this until months and
months later- I knew it as soon as I came to my senses in half the time it
took me to the first time ’round, and when I felt so angry and frustrated
for no apparent reason immediately upon coming to my senses as well. This is
a perfect example of why I myself am frustrated at so far having to go
through someone else to obtain ibogaine, and that it is illegal so I can’t
simply order it from the company and know for a fact exactly what I’m
getting, weight and quality wise (not that there were any quality issues
with what I got- only weight issues). I felt the genuine need for another
full “treatment” dose and didn’t get it due to someone else deciding they
knew better than I what I was hearing the plant and my own brain telling me.
I feel badly that someone might not want their loved one nearby them
when going through something like an ibogaine session, or feel that that’s
an imposition upon their loved one. I guess I’m lucky that way.

>Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.<

Ok, now that you’ve told me to, I’m going to leap up and run out and get
outta myself. Give it a try. It’ll be a new thing, never tried that before.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a
decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in
the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not
a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has
many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable
but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing
as best it can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically
respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the
spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most loving and powerful
life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you
personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be
appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit
otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most
part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most
times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and
get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the
time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into
their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the
adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6
sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey
if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded
chances are they are not really interested in changing their lives and
being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it
all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday,
lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it
all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break
.. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially
like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love
through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone
they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never
know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself
but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet wrote:
>What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Edi! tor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

>
> This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
> have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
> not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
> wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
> of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.
>
> Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here! a lot, I
> know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
> new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.
>
> My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
> you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
> discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
> is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
> then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.
>
> Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
> a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
> will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
> heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.
>
> Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?
>
> My second question is about guides and treatment in! stead of ibogaine
> itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
> where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
> After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
> doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
> doing.
>
> What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
> and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
> happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
> having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
> this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
> there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
> dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
> and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
> instructions?
>> .:vector:.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>
>
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>

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 23, 2005 at 8:21:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I glad to say I disagree with you Rocky, and hope you the best in whatever you do.

this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it.<

I would like to point out though that first of all, I’m going to let your judgement call bounce right off of me.
Second of all, ibogaine has taught me something each time I’ve done it, whether I’ve publicly declared what that learning is or not- for the most part it’s not for sharing, it’s very personal stuff. I could swear that I did just point out in a very recent post, yep, just this morning at 8:35AM, that when talking about my after “treatment” plans, I first wrote:

…I still feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but still
struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of
other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with, each
of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this
“addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition.<

And that I felt that:

If one of those ways [of dealing with my life in the way I see giving me the least stress and the most happiness while causing myself and those around me the very least harm- I add now at 7:26PM the same day I posted this original statement] happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to help keep an opiate use pattern in control,<

And most importantly as regards your comment about “the spirit that dwells in the root”:

or even were it simply to broaden my mind and
explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or
me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?<

In other words, I’m not sure where you get off putting your ideas about how ibogaine should be taken into my life and somehow deciding that the best way for you to deal is obviously going to be the best for me? Of so that’s the message I get from your seemingly haughty and judgemental post here.

everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost<

Where in the world you got the idea that 5 or 6 session on ibogaine and I’ll have lost any usefullness from taking this spiritual, magical, blessing of a plant is completely beyond me, and I can’t begin to guess where that attitude or statement came from, on what you’re basing it. Knowing people on this very list who not only have taken ibogaine a LOT more times than 5 or 6 times, and some even taking it a LOT more than 5 or 6 times and never once having taken it for ADDICTION reasons leaves me laughing at your attitude of “oh, this plant is too sacred to be misused by amatures who think they know all after a few sessions,” which isn’t what I’ve ever said- I’ve only ever said that after a few sessions I’ve thought of ideas and seen things from new perspectives that could and probably always will evolve and change and grow and strenghten and do all sorts of other positive things. But I can’t imagine the usefulness being “lost” at all. Sorry you feel that way, and I’m glad I don’t.

oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.<

After watching me struggle through the hell of various addictive abuse patterns over the years, watching me take ibogaine was magical for my loved one, and she was extremely happy to not only have had the honor of being with me through such an experience, she was extremely happy to have seen me and continue to see me grow and evolve since my taking ibogaine, three times now and quite possibly again at some point.
On one note- I’ve been told repeatedly now by my provider that the second “treatment” doesn’t “count” because it wasn’t really for an “addiction” issue, it was more for “psycho-spiritual” reasons, which I gotta admit pisses the hell out of me, and is a GLARING example of the issue I’m trying to address:

I knew what I wanted when taking ibogaine a second time. I knew that I had not gotten what I needed the first time around, and wanted to go again to further explore some of the issues I had touched on briefly during my first experience, or to at least make the attempt to further explore the issues that make me who I am and to further cement some of the feelings I had found- but someone along the provider line, between me and the stuff, decided they knew better than I what I needed, so while charging me more than the first time ’round, they gave me a LOT less than I expected, and needed. And I knew it even though they didn’t tell me this until months and months later- I knew it as soon as I came to my senses in half the time it took me to the first time ’round, and when I felt so angry and frustrated for no apparent reason immediately upon coming to my senses as well. This is a perfect example of why I myself am frustrated at so far having to go through someone else to obtain ibogaine, and that it is illegal so I can’t simply order it from the company and know for a fact exactly what I’m getting, weight and quality wise (not that there were any quality issues with what I got- only weight issues). I felt the genuine need for another full “treatment” dose and didn’t get it due to someone else deciding they knew better than I what I was hearing the plant and my own brain telling me.
I feel badly that someone might not want their loved one nearby them when going through something like an ibogaine session, or feel that that’s an imposition upon their loved one. I guess I’m lucky that way.

Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.<

Ok, now that you’ve told me to, I’m going to leap up and run out and get outta myself. Give it a try. It’ll be a new thing, never tried that before.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has f! or the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break .. ! ; thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Edi! tor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here! a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment in! stead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?
.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments and doin it on our own…
Date: June 23, 2005 at 7:52:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday and today alone..
As most of you know I have had a couple of attempts at this over the past year. First taking a moderate amount of Ibogaine in Mexico and putting together 4 months after detoxing from a shit load of Methadone and a bunch of dope… then slipping with heroin for a week and taking a rather small dose of Ibogaine…. then putting together another month or so before falling again mostly because a week wasn’t enough time to really get my ass kicked and remember how hard and unfulfilling a life it is for me…. and now I’m coming up on 3 months AGAIN after taking a rather Large dose of Ibogaine.
I think my story is a lot more common than people think and its not the worst thing in the world either. For starters, I have had more clean time this year than I can remember having in a long time. Yeah this year has been a hell ride in a lot of respects but every time I’ve fallen and gotten up with the help of that spirit Rocky mentioned and I feel a little more whole when I’m back on my feet each time out. This time, and I realize I’ve had this amount of time before, but I have no desire to use dope at all. Theres nothing attractive about it  at all right now.  Dana compares it to peeling and onion, who knows. But the therapeutic value of this session was more than I ever even imagined possible after the last two. Howard said something about how “we all know what the issues are and that Ibogaine enables that discussion” or something close to that. Well, I never experienced anything like that until this time around. I got what “going really deep” was all about and it wasn’t what I tohught it would be at all. It was so much more! But I don’t know.
But are we all doomed? No fuckin way.
I think that there is something about this crazy medicine that feeds on our true intentions and if we intend to shoot dope again we certainly will but if we want to be free from this and change our lives then it will eventually show us the way out. This year as I’ve said has been more unmanageable than I would have liked but I guess walking around for the first time in 10 years or so without any “painkillers” in my system wasn’t supposed to be easy.
Also, about the debate on should we be able to do it ourselves. I’m really torn on that one because although I agree with everything Rocky and the “provider that will remain nameless” said. I also know that after my relapse this winter if I could have copped Ibogaine on the corner or ordered it on the internet I would have. I see people on the street everyday that don’t have the money to do this and I know that if it was more easily accessible more people would have a chance. But a shit load more people would die as well!
I think one of the first things I said after this last session was “I never would have been able to do that by myself- Thank you” because I thought about doing the po box thing, or even asking one of you kind folks that don’t live under such oppressive regimes to order and send me some more times than I could remember when I couldn’t come up with the cash for a treatment. But its a rough ride no doubt about it and I think theres a lot to letting someone who has been called to this, especially someone who ain’t making shit, sit and help you though because that’s where they want to be. That’s just my opinion.
Also Preston, from what I remember you have a pretty hard time with this stuff. I go though unusually fast and have never puked and theres no way I could have gone though this time with a family member or my girlfriend. It can be a pretty terririfing ordeal, no?
You wouldn’t do a large therapeutic dose on your own would you?

Rocky wrote…

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has for the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break ..  thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Ibogi Boogie Boogie <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
“Better keep yourself clean and bright; you are the window through which you must see the world.”
~ George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
British playwright & novelist

“Keep close to Nature’s heart . . . and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.”
~ John Muir (1838-1914)
American naturalist

“When he tries to extend his power over objects, those objects gain control of him. He who is controlled by objects loses possession of his inner self… Prisoners in the world of object, they have no choice but to submit to the demands of matter! They are pressed down and crushed by external forces: fashion, the market, events, public opinion. Never in a whole lifetime do they recover their right mind!… What a pity!”
~ Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC-c. 275 BC)

“Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality.”
~ John William Gardner (1912-)
—– Original Message —–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has for the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break ..  thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

>
> This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
> have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
> not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
> wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
> of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.
>
> Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
> know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
> new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.
>
> My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
> you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
> discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
> is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
> then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.
>
> Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
> a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
> will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
> heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.
>
> Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?
>
> My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
> itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
> where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
> After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
> doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
> doing.
>
> What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
> and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
> happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
> having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
> this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
> there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
> dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
> and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
> instructions?
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> [%]
>
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and retreatments.
Date: June 23, 2005 at 7:51:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First of all I wanted to say hey Rocky and well said. Secondly and for the last time, its not true that people are not saying clean in NYC. I saw 4 of them and if you count me that’s 4 1/2 just kidding, but that was yesterday and today alone..
As most of you know I have had a couple of attempts at this over the past year. First taking a moderate amount of Ibogaine in Mexico and putting together 4 months after detoxing from a shit load of Methadone and a bunch of dope… then slipping with heroin for a week and taking a rather small dose of Ibogaine…. then putting together another month or so before falling again mostly because a week wasn’t enough time to really get my ass kicked and remember how hard and unfulfilling a life it is for me…. and now I’m coming up on 3 months AGAIN after taking a rather Large dose of Ibogaine.
I think my story is a lot more common than people think and its not the worst thing in the world either. For starters, I have had more clean time this year than I can remember having in a long time. Yeah this year has been a hell ride in a lot of respects but every time I’ve fallen and gotten up with the help of that spirit Rocky mentioned and I feel a little more whole when I’m back on my feet each time out. This time, and I realize I’ve had this amount of time before, but I have no desire to use dope at all. Theres nothing attractive about it  at all right now.  Dana compares it to peeling and onion, who knows. But the therapeutic value of this session was more than I ever even imagined possible after the last two. Howard said something about how “we all know what the issues are and that Ibogaine enables that discussion” or something close to that. Well, I never experienced anything like that until this time around. I got what “going really deep” was all about and it wasn’t what I tohught it would be at all. It was so much more! But I don’t know.
But are we all doomed? No fuckin way.
I think that there is something about this crazy medicine that feeds on our true intentions and if we intend to shoot dope again we certainly will but if we want to be free from this and change our lives then it will eventually show us the way out. This year as I’ve said has been more unmanageable than I would have liked but I guess walking around for the first time in 10 years or so without any “painkillers” in my system wasn’t supposed to be easy.
Also, about the debate on should we be able to do it ourselves. I’m really torn on that one because although I agree with everything Rocky and the “provider that will remain nameless” said. I also know that after my relapse this winter if I could have copped Ibogaine on the corner or ordered it on the internet I would have. I see people on the street everyday that don’t have the money to do this and I know that if it was more easily accessible more people would have a chance. But a shit load more people would die as well!
I think one of the first things I said after this last session was “I never would have been able to do that by myself- Thank you” because I thought about doing the po box thing, or even asking one of you kind folks that don’t live under such oppressive regimes to order and send me some more times than I could remember when I couldn’t come up with the cash for a treatment. But its a rough ride no doubt about it and I think theres a lot to letting someone who has been called to this, especially someone who ain’t making shit, sit and help you though because that’s where they want to be. That’s just my opinion.
Also Preston, from what I remember you have a pretty hard time with this stuff. I go though unusually fast and have never puked and theres no way I could have gone though this time with a family member or my girlfriend. It can be a pretty terririfing ordeal, no?
You wouldn’t do a large therapeutic dose on your own would you?

Rocky wrote…

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has for the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break ..  thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Ibogi Boogie Boogie <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
“Better keep yourself clean and bright; you are the window through which you must see the world.”
~ George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
British playwright & novelist

“Keep close to Nature’s heart . . . and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.”
~ John Muir (1838-1914)
American naturalist

“When he tries to extend his power over objects, those objects gain control of him. He who is controlled by objects loses possession of his inner self… Prisoners in the world of object, they have no choice but to submit to the demands of matter! They are pressed down and crushed by external forces: fashion, the market, events, public opinion. Never in a whole lifetime do they recover their right mind!… What a pity!”
~ Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC-c. 275 BC)

“Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality.”
~ John William Gardner (1912-)
—– Original Message —–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has for the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break ..  thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

>
> This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
> have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
> not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
> wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
> of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.
>
> Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
> know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
> new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.
>
> My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
> you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
> discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
> is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
> then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.
>
> Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
> a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
> will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
> heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.
>
> Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?
>
> My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
> itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
> where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
> After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
> doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
> doing.
>
> What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
> and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
> happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
> having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
> this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
> there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
> dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
> and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
> instructions?
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> [%]
>
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>
>

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] family in the treatment process
Date: June 23, 2005 at 6:05:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 6/23/05, ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com> wrote:
i don’t hear so much about the  spirit that dwells in the root that
its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging
energys on the planet
Right on, Rocky!

oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially
like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love
through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone
they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never
know what will happen in an ibogaine detox…

I blame ALL of my gray hairs that sprouted between August — when my
husband started talking seriously about taking the treatment — and
March — when he finally got back to work and back into a groove — on
the stress of imagining the worst possible outcomes.  Not to project
them, the fears, into being.  But to be ready to let go of him if he
took this risky road, and to deal with his rawness, and to worry about
the possibilities of relapse when he had been so stable.

And at the same time, I was grateful to be there to help him take a
piss, to coax him into hydrating, to fetch food when it was time, and
to hold his hand or just be present in whatever way comforted him.
Maybe it’s different when you are married…. the individual selves
are not quite so distinct… but if our relationship were different,
or the nature of our codependence more enmeshed, perhaps it would have
been a total disaster to have me there.  As it was, I had to listen
hard to hear the cautions and advice from our Ibo-Angels in the
aftermath about giving him plenty of space to have his process.  And
its not clear to either of us whether my endless hand-holding during
the hot baths and listening to derepressed traumatic stories was as
“therapeutic” a release as it might have unfolded in dialog with a
trained transpersonal counselor.

love, rachel

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From: “Ibogi Boogie Boogie” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 23, 2005 at 5:06:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Better keep yourself clean and bright; you are the window through which you must see the world.”
~ George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
British playwright & novelist

“Keep close to Nature’s heart . . . and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.”
~ John Muir (1838-1914)
American naturalist

“When he tries to extend his power over objects, those objects gain control of him. He who is controlled by objects loses possession of his inner self… Prisoners in the world of object, they have no choice but to submit to the demands of matter! They are pressed down and crushed by external forces: fashion, the market, events, public opinion. Never in a whole lifetime do they recover their right mind!… What a pity!”
~ Chuang Tzu (c.360 BC-c. 275 BC)

“Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality.”
~ John William Gardner (1912-)
—– Original Message —–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has for the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break ..  thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

>
> This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
> have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
> not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
> wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
> of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.
>
> Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
> know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
> new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.
>
> My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
> you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
> discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
> is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
> then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.
>
> Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
> a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
> will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
> heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.
>
> Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?
>
> My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
> itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
> where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
> After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
> doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
> doing.
>
> What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
> and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
> happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
> having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
> this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
> there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
> dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
> and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
> instructions?
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

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From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 23, 2005 at 4:48:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh i love this so a few experiences with ibogaine is enough to make a decission on the care and outcome of a detox i have to say i am glad that in the community of treatment and resources for avaliable ibogaine that its not a on the corner and pick it up substance for the pure reason that it has many aspects to be concerned with. that it for the most part is availiable but that theres responsibility for handling it properly and for representing as best it  can that it has a reputation for being effective and basically respected. this is just oppinion but really i don’t hear so much about the spirit that dwells in the root that its one of the most  loving and powerful life course rearranging energys on the planet and if it vibrates to you personally it would seem that a little self sacrafice to honor it would be appropriate one of those aspects is having a representitive of the spirit otherwise known as a provider someone who was called and has for the most part given their lives to do the work of iboga . Its a funny thing most times it just bounces off people and they forget where they came from and get the idea oh i’ll just do another session and get clean not spend the time nessissary to redevelope a new way of life to face life and look into their hearts for what is the root cause of discontentment and making the adjustments to eliminate it. everything can become a habit and after 5 ,6 sessions a habit of thought gets established and the usefullness is lost hey if someone wants to get loaded but not suffer consiquences of getting loaded chances are they are  not really interested in changing their lives and being free of addiction on the other hand if your willing to go through it all , the good the bad the ugly ,work with some one who does this everyday, lives and breathes it mabe you gotta chance. I’m an addict i think i know it all without ever doing the work this has been the hardest mind set to break ..  thanx everyone
oh by the way doing treatments with family or freind especially like girl freind boy freind why would anyone want to put someone they love  through the fear of if anything went wrong or the agony of watching someone they love struggle through a difficult experience and the truth is you never know what will happen in an ibogaine detox . Its hard to get out of yourself but try it.
rocky

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

>
> This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
> have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
> not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
> wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
> of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.
>
> Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
> know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
> new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.
>
> My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
> you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
> discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
> is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
> then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.
>
> Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
> a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
> will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
> heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.
>
> Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?
>
> My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
> itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
> where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
> After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
> doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
> doing.
>
> What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
> and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
> happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
> having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
> this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
> there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
> dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
> and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
> instructions?
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>
>
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 2:55:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston why don’t you try the very low dose ibogaine maintenance? I’d
think you would be a near ideal person for this. It’s very straight
forward, comprehensive and it isn’t talking down to chronic pain
patients or putting up the artificial dividing line between clean and
dirty. Harm reduction at it’s very best.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine2.pdf

KV

On 6/23/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
It definitely reduced my tolerance, even if just a bit- but it was very
noticably decreased, if not quite as much as I’d have liked.
A large dose woulda been better, but this one was helpful in doing what I
wanted it to.
Thanks for asking.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

I have been meaning to ask………after that last booster…. is it
serving
it’s purpose of reducing your tolerance Preston?  I still think the value
in
that is so huge for those who are long term pain peoples.  Lead the way.
Koik

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 12:36 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the
future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this
drug

is going to effect you.<

But so too this is the case for any drug we take Mark, no? Even dope heads
can buy themselves a bag that isn’t what they bargained for. (Pot’s about
the only one that I’m pretty sure I know what’s definitely NOT going to
happen if I take it- dying I mean.) If the providers want to put
themselves
repeatedly into a position of risking federal offenses above and beyond
simply procurment of the substance, I suppose that’s up to them- but if
there are those who simply want to procure I would think some providers
might be inclined to simply provide- thereby cutting down on their own
risks, sorta harm-reduction-like. But there’re a number of issues involved
in this that cause some to hesitate in simply providing and getting outta
the picture.
I don’t really have a problem with what I’ve paid, considering my
choices and options. But of course, I would prefer now to not have to pay
for the whole kit and kaboodle if I ever did want to procure ibogaine, and
just get the substance without the extra “hey, I’m gonna hang out and be
sure you are ok” routine- which is appreciated but not necessary now, in
my
case I think at least. I’m not saying I’m buying ibogaine in case the feds
are reading this, but I am interested in doing so were it possible to do
so.

At the prices or at least near the prices that the companies that make the
HCL are charging, without all the prohibition tarifs added on, or at least
as much prohibition tarifs cut out of the picture as possible.

And on what was written about Randy- he has gotten what he needed to get
out

of ibogaine expressly because of what you noted- he did the work. I am in
a
slightly different situation and am after much different results than
Randy,

so while I did and will probably again berate myself for not taking those
yoga classes I insist I want to take (I am still doing stretches that I
can
on the mat I went out and bought for the purpose of following the tai chi
dvd V bought me), and other various things I’ve said I want to do but
still
haven’t managed to successfully pull off (freakin’ smoking tobacco) I
still
feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but still
struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of
other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with,
each

of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this
“addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition. If one of
those ways happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to help keep an
opiate use pattern in control, or even were it simply to broaden my mind
and

explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or
me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?

Why would I have to have someone other than someone of my choice sitting
with or near me to be sure things are ok? Why would the “dealer” (to put
it
into blunt, non-technical, street terms) have to be the one to do so?
Don’t
get me wrong, I’m not slurring the people who helped me out- that’s not my
point at all. My point is that I’ve realized I’m not after exactly what
most

are by taking ibogaine, and that means that the issues the providers are
trying to address aren’t necessarily the same ones I am, for the most
part.
I think that’s part of my point anyway.

As as I’ve always written, from my first posts here probably, when getting
off methadone without ibogaine but still posting and reading the list, I
feel ibogaine is, or can be, a tool to help in getting past the worst of
withdrawals, and in personal change or in personal growth (not that I said
that much in the beginning but I was on this track from the get-go), not a
magic bullet that cures addiction.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Wow, you sure told me. Thanks.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:55 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is
TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive
medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were
talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does
cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment
on
what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real
money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability
to

experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should
be

able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be
able
to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every
provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family
member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in
the

room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the
cost
of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days,
cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or
holding

a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time.
Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay
hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment.
Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly
EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to
see

into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how
this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too
much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work
and
believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for
1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and
from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t
missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and
bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does
not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship.
You

could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it,
very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have
plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like
when

I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the
authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the
average
cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive!
Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could
buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 2:51:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please *don’t* shoot battery acid into your dick.  Wouldn’t that throw
the masculine-feminine duality war of the sexes even MORE out of
balance???

I didn’t mean you, Randy… ya big hearted softie.  Be good to yourself, man.

Given the analogies between underground abortion providers and
underground addiction-interruption Eboga feedings, I’d tread more
lightly on the political ground of feminism, as that is a public
policy space through which U.S. women carved out tenuous rights to
making their own medical decisions in alliance with medical
professionals, clergy, professional women, and radical and liberal
activists.

WHY is this medicine Schedule 1, again, anyone?

love, Rachel

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Pain Relief in the ‘Land of Plenty’
Date: June 23, 2005 at 1:58:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: the lawyerdude ; project grasp ; chacon
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Pain Relief in the ‘Land of Plenty’

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/douglass1.html

Pain Relief in the ‘Land of Plenty’

by William Campbell Douglass II, MD

God have mercy on you if you live in this “Land of
Plenty” and develop some form of horrific pain. You’ll
end up with “plenty” alright: plenty of unnecessary
pain and suffering. The government is so obsessed with
“fighting” drugs that they’ve destroyed the ability of
doctors to reduce suffering among their patients.

A recent example of this, published in The New York
Times, is typical of the mess we are in. Five years
ago, Frank Fisher, M.D., was arrested by goons from
the California Gestapo (known as the Attorney
General’s office) and charged with drug trafficking
and murder. And what was Dr. Fisher actually guilty
of? He was guilty of relieving his patients’ severe
pain with legal narcotics for which he had a license
to prescribe. After five months in jail, loss of his
home and practice, he was released and told it was all
a mistake. The patients who had died succumbed from
their injuries or from medical illnesses, not from the
narcotics Dr. Fisher prescribed. But these “apologies”
(if you can call them that) are too little too late
for Dr. Fisher and his family: His practice and his
reputation are ruined. And who’s going to compensate
them? No one. The state is the state. It has no sense
of responsibility or morality. It is not a source for
good, as pinko liberals think in their childish minds.
It is a continuous source of evil.

Dr. Fisher’s case is not at all unusual. Even patients
are not immune. Richard Paey, a patient suffering from
intractable pain, was unable to obtain enough Percocet
to relieve his pain, so he forged undated prescription
forms his doctor had given him to get what he needed
to relieve his misery. He refused to take a plea
bargain when charged as he maintained he was innocent.
He never sold a pill; he paid for the medication, and
maintained he was being denied his right to pursue a
pain-free life. So he received a 25-year sentence for
pleading not guilty. He is now in jail, in a
wheelchair, and on a morphine pump.
Cops take charge of your medical care

To understand the duplicity of the Drug Enforcement
Agency (DEA) and to be clear as to whose side they are
on, consider their behavior earlier this year. They
publicly acknowledged the need for a “principle of
balance” to address the necessity of access to pain
medications. Their document was, according to Dr.
Sally Satel who authored the New York Times article I
referenced above, a thoughtful and lucid description
of the problem of prosecuting doctors. But the agency
pulled the document from the Web a few months later
claiming there were “misstatements” in it.

How can the narcotic police judge individual cases
intelligently, assuming they are intelligent, when
they do not know the patient and they know nothing
about medicine in the first place?

As Dr. Satel stated in her article, “It is not known
how many patients need long-term treatment with
opioids, particularly at high doses. Dr. Russell K.
Portenoy, chairman of pain medicine and palliative
care at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York,
cites surveys estimating that as many as 6 to 10
percent of Americans suffer from chronic, disabling
pain. He speculates that maybe 1 in 10 of them could
benefit from long-term, high dose treatment.”

I beg to differ. If a patient has “chronic, disabling
pain,” I maintain that 10 out of 10 of them could
benefit from long-term, high-dose treatment. Something
tells me that if Russell suddenly found himself in
chronic disabling pain, he might alter his opinion.
Quality of medicine takes a nosedive

Thanks to cases like Dr. Fisher’s, which are becoming
increasingly common, doctors are quitting by the
hundreds. Many are switching to nursing because it is
less stressful, less responsibility, less malpractice,
and shorter work hours. As a result of this “doctor
shortage,” the quality of applicants admitted to
medical school has decreased to allow more people into
the profession in order to fill the gap.

CAT scans, a multi-million-dollar laboratory and
computerized EKG readings will not compensate for dumb
doctors. I have seen this in many third world
countries: Some of them have remarkably sophisticated
equipment (paid for by guess who) but because of the
low quality of the doctors, they are still dangerous
places to get seriously ill. This is a scenario coming
soon to an operating theater near you.

The quality of medicine and the status of doctors are
deteriorating concomitantly. And so is the publics’
attitude toward them. As doctors become less affluent,
respect for them declines. They envy those with high
incomes, nice cars, and big homes on the water. But if
a doctor drives an old Dodge and wears Wal-Mart shoes,
the consensus seems to be: “Who would go to him? Look
at the car he drives.”

This is the road to ruin for American medicine.
Unfortunately, there’s not a whole lot we can do about
it.

Action to take:

My best advice to you is to pay close attention to
your doctor’s credentials and treatment techniques.
Odds are if you suspect he doesn’t know what he’s
doing, you’re probably right.

If that’s the case, I suggest you look for a new
doctor – preferably one who can help you get the pain
relief you need. Physicians with a background in
alternative medicine are usually more understanding
about this sort of thing, and are better equipped to
offer you numerous options for pain relief than
mainstream docs. To locate an alternative physician
near you, contact the American College for Advancement
in Medicine (800-532-3688; 714-583-7666).

References:

“Doctors Behind Bars: Treating Pain Is Now Risky
Business,” The New York Times, 10/19/2004

“AAPS Supports Due Process in Licensure,” AAPS News
2004: 60(8)

June 23, 2005

William Campbell Douglass II, MD, writes the medical
newsletter, Real Health Breakthroughs, and the free
E-letter, Daily Dose. His numerous books and
monographs are available from www..drdouglass.com.

“In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”-George Orwell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the
people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who
mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good
masters, but they mean to be masters.”  — Daniel Webster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Great empires cannot subsist without great armies, and liberty cannot subsist with them.” – Cato, anti-federalist

“We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.”  [Ayn Rand, The Nature of Government]

For Liberty in Our Lifetime,
R.J. Tavel, J.D., Founder

Liberty’s Educational Advocacy Forum
http://freedomlaw.com
promotes “action that raises the cost of State violence for its perpetrators … lay(ing) the basis for institutional change.” [Noam Chomsky]

Freedom Law.com Self Help Clinic and Sovereign Law Library
http://freedomlaw.com/selfhelp.htm
Not a high-tech law firm brochure, “because a lawyer is only as smart as you make him ” [Max Katz] and “the Law . . . should be accessible to every man and at all times.”  [Franz Kafka]

Attorney-Written Instant On-Line Tutorials Simplify Lawsuit Procedure
http://www.jurisdictionary.com/index.asp?refercode=%20tr001

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 1:34:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It definitely reduced my tolerance, even if just a bit- but it was very noticably decreased, if not quite as much as I’d have liked.
A large dose woulda been better, but this one was helpful in doing what I wanted it to.
Thanks for asking.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

I have been meaning to ask………after that last booster…. is it serving
it’s purpose of reducing your tolerance Preston?  I still think the value in
that is so huge for those who are long term pain peoples.  Lead the way.
Koik

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 12:36 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the
future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug

is going to effect you.<

But so too this is the case for any drug we take Mark, no? Even dope heads
can buy themselves a bag that isn’t what they bargained for. (Pot’s about
the only one that I’m pretty sure I know what’s definitely NOT going to
happen if I take it- dying I mean.) If the providers want to put themselves
repeatedly into a position of risking federal offenses above and beyond
simply procurment of the substance, I suppose that’s up to them- but if
there are those who simply want to procure I would think some providers
might be inclined to simply provide- thereby cutting down on their own
risks, sorta harm-reduction-like. But there’re a number of issues involved
in this that cause some to hesitate in simply providing and getting outta
the picture.
I don’t really have a problem with what I’ve paid, considering my
choices and options. But of course, I would prefer now to not have to pay
for the whole kit and kaboodle if I ever did want to procure ibogaine, and
just get the substance without the extra “hey, I’m gonna hang out and be
sure you are ok” routine- which is appreciated but not necessary now, in my
case I think at least. I’m not saying I’m buying ibogaine in case the feds
are reading this, but I am interested in doing so were it possible to do so.

At the prices or at least near the prices that the companies that make the
HCL are charging, without all the prohibition tarifs added on, or at least
as much prohibition tarifs cut out of the picture as possible.

And on what was written about Randy- he has gotten what he needed to get out

of ibogaine expressly because of what you noted- he did the work. I am in a
slightly different situation and am after much different results than Randy,

so while I did and will probably again berate myself for not taking those
yoga classes I insist I want to take (I am still doing stretches that I can
on the mat I went out and bought for the purpose of following the tai chi
dvd V bought me), and other various things I’ve said I want to do but still
haven’t managed to successfully pull off (freakin’ smoking tobacco) I still
feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but still
struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of
other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with, each

of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this
“addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition. If one of
those ways happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to help keep an
opiate use pattern in control, or even were it simply to broaden my mind and

explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or
me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?

Why would I have to have someone other than someone of my choice sitting
with or near me to be sure things are ok? Why would the “dealer” (to put it
into blunt, non-technical, street terms) have to be the one to do so? Don’t
get me wrong, I’m not slurring the people who helped me out- that’s not my
point at all. My point is that I’ve realized I’m not after exactly what most

are by taking ibogaine, and that means that the issues the providers are
trying to address aren’t necessarily the same ones I am, for the most part.
I think that’s part of my point anyway.

As as I’ve always written, from my first posts here probably, when getting
off methadone without ibogaine but still posting and reading the list, I
feel ibogaine is, or can be, a tool to help in getting past the worst of
withdrawals, and in personal change or in personal growth (not that I said
that much in the beginning but I was on this track from the get-go), not a
magic bullet that cures addiction.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Wow, you sure told me. Thanks.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:55 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is
TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive
medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were
talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does
cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on
what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real
money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to

experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be

able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able
to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every
provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family
member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the

room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost
of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days,
cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding

a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time.
Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay
hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment.
Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly
EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see

into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how
this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too
much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and
believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for
1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and
from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t
missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does
not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You

could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it,
very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have
plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when

I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the
authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average
cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive!
Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could
buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] At the end of the rainbow
Date: June 23, 2005 at 12:53:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great piece, which I forwarded to my dj girlfriend’s email box, as I thought she’d appreciate your article.
I think the whole dancing thing and community is something that might be helpful to some (at least those able to dance for hours on end until reaching trance state, something very difficult for me with back and leg and stomach problems- yet there are times when I’ll hobble around the dance floor still, braced upon my cane, basically just swaying to the music if it’s something I really love of that I feel moves me, excusing the pun of course), and I am very supportive of this idea and activity. I’ve always been pretty disgusted at the whole anti-rave movement (and anti-traveller) amongst politicians in Britain and in the US. Don’t they have better more constructive activities to undertake using our taxes? Like, say, giving me and mine health insurance? Gesuz, sounds so logical to me.
Anyway, keep dancing.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Boris Leshinsky” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] At the end of the rainbow

Seeing as I’ve been posting a bit and feeling strangely at home round here and think I might stick around awhile, I want to share something I’ve written too, by way of introducing myself a bit better.

It may not seem relevant at first, but I think it will become apparent that it is. Its about a music festival we have in Australia, called Rainbow Serpant.

“At the end of the Rainbow”
http://www.inthemix.com.au/features/8539/

cheers
Boris

“At the end of the Rainbow
Reported on Monday, Jan 20, 2003. 16:51 by Infinafta

It is a dusty and dry Monday afternoon at the Rainbow Serpent Festival 2002, located two hours drive west of Melbourne. The festival has been held on Australia Day weekend for the last five years, this weekend drawing about four thousand revelers. It is the last of a string of such festivals held along the east coast of Australia every summer.

A grove of trees in the middle of the campsite is serving as the final refuge for the last remnants of festival goers – the three-day festival may be over, but the party continues. A dozen or so hammocks crisscross the area enveloped in a mesh of colorful banners and tarpaulins. A herd of combi vans and 4WDs surrounds the trees.

This is the only sound system, to still be pumping out the rhythms and around three score trancers have descended on it, like brightly colored moths around a flickering candle. The system is not officially part of the festival, but a private “renegade” setup – one of several such systems at the festival. About a dozen people are sporadically dancing to the unobtrusive beats emanating from the speakers. In the distance the festival site is being dismantled and most of the campsite around us is empty.

Of the people around me, perhaps a third are from Melbourne and a third from other parts of Australia, mainly from Sydney and the NSW north coast, the rest hailing from all corners of the globe – places such as Sweden, the UK, Greece, Israel and Japan.

Many of the faces surrounding me have become familiar over the last month on the festival trail. Of those unknown to me before many have become friends, others I have not officially met, but knowing smiles are exchanged nonetheless on the chance passing. A primordial bond seems to have been awoken within by the long nights and days spent stomping together, a tribal instinct dormant beneath the veneer of modern superficiality remembered.

Commenting on this experience of trance festivals, Lui, from Sydney, who has made the pilgrimage to every one of the last five RSFs, says, “The ritual of dancing outdoors in large groups of people is as old as time, and this is the modern day version of it. I think Psy-Trance is a extremely tribal experience.”

DJing under the name Raptor and promoting parties as part of the Yak and Yeti crew, Lui has been a part of the Sydney trance underground since the mid-nineties, recently launching his latest project, australiens.net, a site dedicated to the Australian Psy-Trance community.

He adds, “The festivals bring us all back to being part of something which I feel society has kind of lost – a real sense of community.”

Benjamin Richards, who organizes the Summer Dreaming festival outside Sydney as part of the Artcore collective, reaffirms these sentiments. In its 4th year, this year’s SD festival, running on the weekend before Rainbow Serpent, drew over 2000 people. Set in the spectacular Glenworth Valley, north of Sydney, the festival was nestled in the lush greenness of the valley, a river running through the campsite, with two nights of music from local and international DJs and live artists.
“I look at it like creating a biosphere, a miniature town or community that is constantly morphing and evolving into parts of space and time.”, says Richards about the organization of SD. “… We create a platform that is up to the people we bring together to fill with energy and life. I just want to create the platform, have it reach far enough across the globe to bring people from different cultures and persuasions together to create a unique vibe and collective unconscious – the basis of the collective trance dance experience. I have traveled the globe, partied on many different continents, I am monolingual, but have shared very special things with people that I can’t verbally communicate with, but for a certain space in time, we have walked together and spiritually ascended. I hope to recreate that feeling on others that I have felt myself, something internally profound.”

When asked about the significance of his own experiences Richards relates, “Trance for me is more personal, an explorative internal meditation that makes me feel more connected to myself and to other people when I am in a party environment. The thing that is so special about it for me is it provides a soundscape that is open to your own interpretation… I want my creative mind to be inspired.”

The themes of tribe, community and internal exploration weave a common thread through the global trance culture, although simply having a bloody good time dancing the night and day away to the music you love, all cultural inhibition abandoned, should not go unmentioned. The fact that the parties are outdoor is also a huge drawing factor. When compared to the beauty of the Australian bush or the beach, where the blue sky is your ceiling, space is virtually unlimited, and walking away from the party for some peace and quiet you find yourself in the serenity of nature, rather than some seedy back streets of the inner city, smoky, crowded clubs quickly lose their appeal. Frequently parties and festivals are located near a swimming hole or the beach, providing an opportunity to cool off in the morning. The day after the party is often whisked away in these beautiful surroundings, and one finds themselves internally recuperated, rather than drained as is usually the case after a night out on the town.

A brief look at the history of this elusive musical genre reveals much about the nature of the surrounding culture. An entity entirely apart from the flamboyantly melodic and anthemic styles of Trance generally associated with clubs and raves – an association generally shunned within Psy-Trance culture – Psychedelic Trance or Psy-Trance emerged from and subsequently grew to encompass the Goa Trance sound that went through a brief but intense period of popularity in the mid-nineties. Goa, on the west coast of India, has been a destination and a home to westerners in pursuit of altered states of consciousness through all night dancing under the influence of psychedelics for over thirty years. The music at the parties on the beaches and in the jungle around Goa progressed from Reggae, Dub and Psychedelic Rock in the 70s, to early House, Techno and Industrial sounds in the 80s. DJs and musicians, inspired by their experiences in Goa, coming home, wanted to recreate the incredible vibe they had discovered at the parties there. The club environment did not lend itself to this experience, so the parties were taken to the outdoors, the connection with nature seen as an important part of the psychedelic journey. At the same time, the music was sought to push the experience further and thus out of the fusion of Acid House and New Wave Industrial, with a pinch of Psychedelic Rock thrown in, Goa Trance was born.

The genre was all but absent from the world of electronic music by the end of 1997, going back into the underground, although in Israel its popularity never abated, with 30000 people turning out for a protest party in Rabin Square, Tel Aviv in 1999, to protest the county’s draconian police policy on Trance events. Through a reinvention of itself as Psy-Trance however, the culture survived and in the last three years has mushroomed in popularity, with new artists and scenes popping up all over the world, from Mexico to China. With a strong influence from Techno, the genre has diversified, spawning a myriad of sub styles that have pushed musical boundaries in completely new directions. For example, Minimal Trance has emerged as a hypnotic and atmospheric style, possessing an entrancing ambience within a structure of crunchy technoid beats. Other sub genres have drawn on Breaks, House and even Jazz and Heavy Metal.

Sharing some of the ideals with and indeed having its distant roots in the 60s counterculture, does not stop the new trance hippie culture from simultaneously wholeheartly embracing technology, rejected by their cultural fore bearers. Trancers are acutely aware that the culture they love so much would not be possible without technology. Not only would the music not be created or the parties produced, although surely the tribal trance dance gathering predates the electronic gadgetry of today by some millennia, but without the World Wide Web and email, not to mention relatively cheap travel costs, there would not be the possibility for the existence of the global trance network that has emerged. In the last year or so, open-air Trance festivals drawing thousands of partygoers, have been held in Morocco, Brazil, Zambia, Portugal, Thailand, Greece and Germany. The biggest festivals in Europe, such as Boom Festival held in Portugal in 2000 and the Solipse Solar Eclipse Festival in Hungary in 1999, have numbered 15 000 – 20 000 people.

On the subject of the role of technology in his life, Richards says “In my home I am surrounded by computers and technology, my turntables for when I want to create a flowing journey that lasts more than 10 mins, my studio when I want to baffle over how to let out what is inside of me. I guess that is the other thing I love about trance and the outdoor festival scene – we are utilizing state of the art technology in every way to create these experiences and enriching them with the most powerful force in the universe – Gaia.”

Another aspect often seen as inherent in this cyber hippie trance culture is the use of drugs and particularly psychedelics. LSD, Psilocybin Mushrooms and Ecstasy are common at parties, while DMT and Salvia Divinorum are seen by the more experienced as tools to explore further some of the realms that the psychedelic trance experience may have opened up. However many trancers, particularly those that have been involved with trance culture for many years, preach caution in drug use and for many abstinence is seen as the only way forward.

Shahar, who runs isratrance.com, one of the most popular Psy-Trance related websites on the Web, had the following to say on the subject: “I feel sad that a lot of people are dependent on the use of the drugs to attain what trance can offer them. Drugs may open a window for those that can’t open it themself, but to get there for real, you need to do it yourselves. Usually the more you use drugs, the smaller and further the window becomes until it fades and disappears.”

“Trance can bring you consciousness naturally”, says Shahar, “ – just melt yourself in the music and forget your body – it comes naturally and than it stays forever. A party can bring us back a unity we no longer have in our lives – we have ourselves, family, and then its city, state. The tribe is missing. When you dance all night and swap energies with the people around you, discover their faces at sunrise and realize you already know them, and leave the party with the energy of 50-2000 people sharing, you get the tribe back in your life.”

And thus we return to the theme of the tribe.

This last year has taken me to the week long Exodus Festival near Byron Bay, The Awakening Festival near Brisbane, then down to Summer Dreaming near Sydney and finally to the Rainbow Serpent near Melbourne. After each festival more and more smiling faces on the dance floor have become familiar. Experiences and journeys have been shared, the tribe has expanded and grown closer together. And although it is now time for some of us to return to our home tribes, we return enriched with new friendships and connections. Already there is talk of a visit to Europe for a run of the festivals there on the home turf of some of my new friends.

As I sit back in a gently rocking hammock, I find myself becoming a little nostalgic about the events of the last year. Scanning the saturnalian party aftermath around me, I smile to myself, remembering a joke someone had made in an Internet forum recently. “When you dance with the rainbow serpent, the rainbow serpent doesn’t change, the rainbow serpent changes you.”

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 11:58:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kirk asked >How many people are employed at the actual Clinics?<

We used to have someone posting here regularly who worked as a methadone counselor, who finally took ibogaine himself to see what the deal was, although I’m pretty sure he wasn’t on any opiates that I know of or dealing with addiction issues (I could be wrong, and I seem to remember tobacco being mentioned but could be mistaken). He wound up quitting his job at the clinic and moving out to the Arizona desert to work on his art. I don’t remember his name (and I’m very sorry about that because I always enjoyed seeing and reading his posts), but I was very impressed at his reaction to taking ibogaine, and how he acted upon what he’d seen/heard/discussed/imagined while under the influence, and afterwards too while “assimilating” the ibogaine experience, and last I heard/read from him, he was happily pursuing his love of art, I believe by taking up painting, while living out in the desert away from clinics and addicts and negative living that had apparently not been helping him be happy. He’s the only one I know of for sure who used to be here, posting while working at a clinic but he’s no longer posting and I’ve no idea if he’s even still subscribed here.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Thanks, that was great, and about time we heard it here on this list.  How many people are employed at the actual Clinics?  Docs, nurses, orderlies, cleaners, receptionists???? Now, here’s a really funny question. How much funding do these clinics get???????  Then there’s all the buckets for puke, the tissues, toilet paper, cleaning products, linen, towels, mops, and it’s far too early to think of anything else.,.. but  start adding all this up..and it aint cheap.  I’ve been looking after a friend of mine who is removing  herself from an abusive relationship, looking at intensive therapy for childhood abuse issues, so eventually she can get her beautiful children back… And she’s a mess and it’s really really  hard, so I can see how exhausting and all consuming Providing work would be.  You guys should be paid and paid VERY well.  I’m not sure I could do it. At this stage anyway.
Again, thanks to those of you who do risk your freedom.
Love loads
Kirk :o)

From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. No t to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the u sa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
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http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 8:55:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have been meaning to ask………after that last booster…. is it serving
it’s purpose of reducing your tolerance Preston?  I still think the value in
that is so huge for those who are long term pain peoples.  Lead the way.
Koik

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 12:36 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the
future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug

is going to effect you.<

But so too this is the case for any drug we take Mark, no? Even dope heads
can buy themselves a bag that isn’t what they bargained for. (Pot’s about
the only one that I’m pretty sure I know what’s definitely NOT going to
happen if I take it- dying I mean.) If the providers want to put themselves
repeatedly into a position of risking federal offenses above and beyond
simply procurment of the substance, I suppose that’s up to them- but if
there are those who simply want to procure I would think some providers
might be inclined to simply provide- thereby cutting down on their own
risks, sorta harm-reduction-like. But there’re a number of issues involved
in this that cause some to hesitate in simply providing and getting outta
the picture.
I don’t really have a problem with what I’ve paid, considering my
choices and options. But of course, I would prefer now to not have to pay
for the whole kit and kaboodle if I ever did want to procure ibogaine, and
just get the substance without the extra “hey, I’m gonna hang out and be
sure you are ok” routine- which is appreciated but not necessary now, in my
case I think at least. I’m not saying I’m buying ibogaine in case the feds
are reading this, but I am interested in doing so were it possible to do so.

At the prices or at least near the prices that the companies that make the
HCL are charging, without all the prohibition tarifs added on, or at least
as much prohibition tarifs cut out of the picture as possible.

And on what was written about Randy- he has gotten what he needed to get out

of ibogaine expressly because of what you noted- he did the work. I am in a
slightly different situation and am after much different results than Randy,

so while I did and will probably again berate myself for not taking those
yoga classes I insist I want to take (I am still doing stretches that I can
on the mat I went out and bought for the purpose of following the tai chi
dvd V bought me), and other various things I’ve said I want to do but still
haven’t managed to successfully pull off (freakin’ smoking tobacco) I still
feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but still
struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of
other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with, each

of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this
“addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition. If one of
those ways happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to help keep an
opiate use pattern in control, or even were it simply to broaden my mind and

explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or
me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?

Why would I have to have someone other than someone of my choice sitting
with or near me to be sure things are ok? Why would the “dealer” (to put it
into blunt, non-technical, street terms) have to be the one to do so? Don’t
get me wrong, I’m not slurring the people who helped me out- that’s not my
point at all. My point is that I’ve realized I’m not after exactly what most

are by taking ibogaine, and that means that the issues the providers are
trying to address aren’t necessarily the same ones I am, for the most part.
I think that’s part of my point anyway.

As as I’ve always written, from my first posts here probably, when getting
off methadone without ibogaine but still posting and reading the list, I
feel ibogaine is, or can be, a tool to help in getting past the worst of
withdrawals, and in personal change or in personal growth (not that I said
that much in the beginning but I was on this track from the get-go), not a
magic bullet that cures addiction.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Wow, you sure told me. Thanks.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:55 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is
TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive
medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were
talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does
cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on
what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real
money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to

experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be

able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able
to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every
provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family
member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the

room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost
of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days,
cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding

a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time.
Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay
hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment.
Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly
EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see

into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how
this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too
much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and
believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for
1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and
from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t
missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does
not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You

could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it,
very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have
plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when

I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the
authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average
cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive!
Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could
buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 23, 2005 at 8:35:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.<

But so too this is the case for any drug we take Mark, no? Even dope heads can buy themselves a bag that isn’t what they bargained for. (Pot’s about the only one that I’m pretty sure I know what’s definitely NOT going to happen if I take it- dying I mean.) If the providers want to put themselves repeatedly into a position of risking federal offenses above and beyond simply procurment of the substance, I suppose that’s up to them- but if there are those who simply want to procure I would think some providers might be inclined to simply provide- thereby cutting down on their own risks, sorta harm-reduction-like. But there’re a number of issues involved in this that cause some to hesitate in simply providing and getting outta the picture.
I don’t really have a problem with what I’ve paid, considering my choices and options. But of course, I would prefer now to not have to pay for the whole kit and kaboodle if I ever did want to procure ibogaine, and just get the substance without the extra “hey, I’m gonna hang out and be sure you are ok” routine- which is appreciated but not necessary now, in my case I think at least. I’m not saying I’m buying ibogaine in case the feds are reading this, but I am interested in doing so were it possible to do so. At the prices or at least near the prices that the companies that make the HCL are charging, without all the prohibition tarifs added on, or at least as much prohibition tarifs cut out of the picture as possible.

And on what was written about Randy- he has gotten what he needed to get out of ibogaine expressly because of what you noted- he did the work. I am in a slightly different situation and am after much different results than Randy, so while I did and will probably again berate myself for not taking those yoga classes I insist I want to take (I am still doing stretches that I can on the mat I went out and bought for the purpose of following the tai chi dvd V bought me), and other various things I’ve said I want to do but still haven’t managed to successfully pull off (freakin’ smoking tobacco) I still feel I’m “doing the work” I need to do, for the most part, but still struggle with moods, emotions, feelings of confusion and a whole bunch of other things I think are normal for people to experience and deal with, each of us in our own ways, especially those of us who are saddled with this “addiction” routine only made more complicated by prohibition. If one of those ways happens to be obtaining ibogaine on occassion to help keep an opiate use pattern in control, or even were it simply to broaden my mind and explore regions of the cosmos the ibogaine plant enables us to explore (or me at least) than what’s wrong with that reason too?

Why would I have to have someone other than someone of my choice sitting with or near me to be sure things are ok? Why would the “dealer” (to put it into blunt, non-technical, street terms) have to be the one to do so? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not slurring the people who helped me out- that’s not my point at all. My point is that I’ve realized I’m not after exactly what most are by taking ibogaine, and that means that the issues the providers are trying to address aren’t necessarily the same ones I am, for the most part. I think that’s part of my point anyway.

As as I’ve always written, from my first posts here probably, when getting off methadone without ibogaine but still posting and reading the list, I feel ibogaine is, or can be, a tool to help in getting past the worst of withdrawals, and in personal change or in personal growth (not that I said that much in the beginning but I was on this track from the get-go), not a magic bullet that cures addiction.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Wow, you sure told me. Thanks.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:55 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

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From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spectacular Conjunction WAY OFF TOPIC…
Date: June 23, 2005 at 4:51:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks Tinkers!!!
Must subscribe to this…. not sure if we’ll get the same
thing….but oh well, if it’s clear nights I;m there anyway!!!
Hmm, wonder if this is the alignment that happens before Jeshua,
Sananda or Jesus returns?!!  Must ask the real space cadets lol

—- Original Message —-
From: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spectacular Conjunction WAY OFF TOPIC…
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 01:54:10 -0400

for all of the aspiring astronomers…
love to all,
tink

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 21, 2005 11:28 PM
Subject: Spectacular Conjunction
To: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>

NASA Science News for June 22, 2005

Mercury, Venus and Saturn are converging for a spectacular alignment
this weekend.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/22jun_spectacular.htm?list16
1661

Check out our RSS feed at http://science.nasa.gov/rss.xml!

You are currently subscribed to snglist as:
tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

This is a free service.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://lyris.msfc.nasa.gov/u?id=161661J&n=T&l=snglist
or send a blank email to leave-snglist-161661J@lyris.msfc.nasa.gov

/]=——————————————————————
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—–=[/

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From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 23, 2005 at 4:43:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yehhhh Hell yehhh I can just see you n me Kickin Ass on some Pain
Elementals, Zombies and Mancubus’s!!!!  And grabbin all the bestus
ammo (my fave is the Rockets for long distance fairly quik exploding
demons…) and gobblin all them health donuts and beer (oh, no that
was Simpsons Doom….) Yehhhhhhh tink let’s do it!!
Oh, one other comment too…… there’s people from all over the
world on this list…… perhaps that makes it seem like there’s
people constantly writing, when really, it’s as the sun comes up, or
down and the world is turning….the messages are read and responded
to…. and round n round we go!!!!
Cool aye? :o)
—- Original Message —-
From: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 01:48:22 -0400

Okay. I find that since I stopped shooting speedballs on a minute to
minute basis that I have a load of time left over from work, school,
therapy, etc, in which i can either challenge myself to a permanent
duel and go get in trouble, or I can type my little fingers off,
bitching and ranting and learning and raving at the list.  They have
one of those lovely little cliches that they use in “The Rooms”,
about
going after you recovery with the same intensity that you go after
you
habit, and I took that one to heart, I suppose.  To me, checking in
to
see how and who and what is a means of keeping myself grounded, and a
way to make sure that If I drop off of the face of the planet, there
will be someone wondering what the fuck I’ve gotten myself into now.

I have no particularly good typing skills, nor do I spend every
waking
moment on my computer, but I do check it every so often, and  it
helps
me keep away from the ever-lurking demons that reside in my(and
other’s, but this is an assumption)head on a minute to minute basis
as
well.  I fight with me to stay clean, and though I find myself on a
relatively decent wave right now, I also know that if I’m not
hypervigilant, I WILL use.
I make the time when I need it.  This list  and all of the people on
it have gotten me through some incredibly rough times.  Instant
online
counselling. I might post more times than others, but as long as I
have an internet hook up and the capacity to type, it works for me.
I
wouldn’t have made it this far without haviing the option to do so.
If you don’t feel the need to do so, then I aplaud your ability to
have another option.  For me, I have to have it.  I’ve gone from
speeballs to methadone to suboxone to the ibogaine list(and
everything
inbetween), and out of all of it, ibogaine and this list are the only
things that have worked.  It should be said here that I would be
NOWHERE if I hadn’t decided to commit my whole self(okay, 98%? On a
bad day,89%)to the fixing of me.  It sucks alot of the time, but it
beats a sharp stick in the ear.  And i am CLEAN of the opiates.
That’s why I list as often as I do.  I’ve read little snippets to
long
ranting short sories, and there hasn’t been a time when i couln’t
relate, in one perspective or another.
We all might be incredibly different, but there is a common thread
that holds us together.  The list is part of that thread for me.  I
can eventually sleep every so often due the simple fact that I know
that there are people who are truly wonderful and, well, I don’t even
know anything about your history, but, when  drop under the radar,
there’s almost always only one reason for it.
I’m going to go visit Kirkie and help in with the killing now….  :]
love to you,
tink
On 6/22/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this
list in 1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a
drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to
phone up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not
having a pop
at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
who your
sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you
apply to a
thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.

The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. –
Musician ,
Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
was good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively
don’t wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse
in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu
hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built
on that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000
people died.}
– So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap
yourselves in to
type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in
a Good
dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
……….sjonny.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the
moon
with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine

how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in
the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the
guy
with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out

Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
<captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a
old
email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll
excited!!
Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close

in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one
before
to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a

star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about

how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded
history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so

I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give

full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever

going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping
in
for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in
the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The

next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way
Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only

be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east

at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of
August
when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and
reach
its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to

see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Spectacular Conjunction WAY OFF TOPIC…
Date: June 23, 2005 at 1:54:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for all of the aspiring astronomers…
love to all,
tink

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 21, 2005 11:28 PM
Subject: Spectacular Conjunction
To: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>

NASA Science News for June 22, 2005

Mercury, Venus and Saturn are converging for a spectacular alignment
this weekend.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/22jun_spectacular.htm?list161661

Check out our RSS feed at http://science.nasa.gov/rss.xml!

You are currently subscribed to snglist as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

This is a free service.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://lyris.msfc.nasa.gov/u?id=161661J&n=T&l=snglist
or send a blank email to leave-snglist-161661J@lyris.msfc.nasa.gov

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 23, 2005 at 1:48:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Okay. I find that since I stopped shooting speedballs on a minute to
minute basis that I have a load of time left over from work, school,
therapy, etc, in which i can either challenge myself to a permanent
duel and go get in trouble, or I can type my little fingers off,
bitching and ranting and learning and raving at the list.  They have
one of those lovely little cliches that they use in “The Rooms”, about
going after you recovery with the same intensity that you go after you
habit, and I took that one to heart, I suppose.  To me, checking in to
see how and who and what is a means of keeping myself grounded, and a
way to make sure that If I drop off of the face of the planet, there
will be someone wondering what the fuck I’ve gotten myself into now.
I have no particularly good typing skills, nor do I spend every waking
moment on my computer, but I do check it every so often, and  it helps
me keep away from the ever-lurking demons that reside in my(and
other’s, but this is an assumption)head on a minute to minute basis as
well.  I fight with me to stay clean, and though I find myself on a
relatively decent wave right now, I also know that if I’m not
hypervigilant, I WILL use.
I make the time when I need it.  This list  and all of the people on
it have gotten me through some incredibly rough times.  Instant online
counselling. I might post more times than others, but as long as I
have an internet hook up and the capacity to type, it works for me.  I
wouldn’t have made it this far without haviing the option to do so.
If you don’t feel the need to do so, then I aplaud your ability to
have another option.  For me, I have to have it.  I’ve gone from
speeballs to methadone to suboxone to the ibogaine list(and everything
inbetween), and out of all of it, ibogaine and this list are the only
things that have worked.  It should be said here that I would be
NOWHERE if I hadn’t decided to commit my whole self(okay, 98%? On a
bad day,89%)to the fixing of me.  It sucks alot of the time, but it
beats a sharp stick in the ear.  And i am CLEAN of the opiates.
That’s why I list as often as I do.  I’ve read little snippets to long
ranting short sories, and there hasn’t been a time when i couln’t
relate, in one perspective or another.
We all might be incredibly different, but there is a common thread
that holds us together.  The list is part of that thread for me.  I
can eventually sleep every so often due the simple fact that I know
that there are people who are truly wonderful and, well, I don’t even
know anything about your history, but, when  drop under the radar,
there’s almost always only one reason for it.
I’m going to go visit Kirkie and help in with the killing now….  :]
love to you,
tink
On 6/22/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop
at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your
sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a
thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.

The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician ,
Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}
– So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good
dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
<captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 23, 2005 at 12:11:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?<

Vector, you put this very well. Thank you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:30:57 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, the glow of the booster wore off very quickly Sara. I do feel a bit better today, but I’m taking it about a minute at a time right now. Any more than that I start doing too much thinking. Thanks for asking and for the encouraging words. As usual, you’ve put a bit of warmth into my day..

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

>yes, Preston, How do you feel today? do you still feel the glow of the
booster dose?
on my part, just be who you like to be and that’s great already.

all the best ,

sara

Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts
to
this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and
woes
of a drug laden/free life.<

Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer writing
and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three passes through
my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.

It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band
rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone
here
nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is
and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ?<

Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always good
but
might not get your rates increased as much as mine.

The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician ,
Dance
Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t
wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on
that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people
died.<

That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make me
laugh
out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist” sounds very
cool.

So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
type …………Can I get a contract ?<

Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
decided
I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I started writing when
I
got home from my then-job putting together the innards of such places as
the
Marvel Comics themed restaurant out in Universal Studios in California (we
built all the panels and artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these
panels to make the place look like a spaceship or something, among other
artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body rapidly
approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to continue with
that
sort of work, and wanted to do something where I could say the things I
thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I could get paid
simultaneously,
more power to me. So I wrote, pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote,
wrote,
wrote, pitched, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection
slips and then gradually started selling my writing.
Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a desk
chair
at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude here, taking it
away there.
At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
;-))
V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
opinion
I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to no complaints.
Any other questions?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a
pop
at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who
your
sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a
thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
,
Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was
good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t
wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people
ied.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap
yourselves
in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not more
than
a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars being closer to
the
Earth, what do we find but someone who has a telescope, set at that same
75
magnification mentioned in that article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could
plainly see Jupiter through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the
size of the moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and
four
of its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. Anyway,
there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the telescope. I got
to
tell everyone standing there, including the guy with the telescope, about
the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already?
I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to
see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And
they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if
I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star
gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how
Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve
no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of
a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:27:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So nic! e to be able to walk around and feel like everybody else does.<

Or at least as we are told we are supposed to imagine everyone else is feeling. I imagine that most everyone you walk by is feeling differently Mark, and that many of them are on some mind/body altering substance or another(s).
I keep thinking that for myself, I MUST stop thinking along these lines, that there’s some kind of “normal” way people are supposed to feel and even be. If I continue to allow myself to slip into that whole “gosh darn it, why can’t I be like the rest of everyone around me?” I’m going to continue to depress the hell outta myself. That isn’t helpful.
Great news on your medical situation. I must say you looked a lot better than I expected when I saw you in the park the other day.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] painkillers

I think my monster is as asleep as its ever been. I feel as though I am currently operating in a real pre-addicted state this time around and I didn’t have that the first time. That not to say that things are prefect because in so many ways my life is more unmanageable than its ever been. But I think I already established with you guys that for whatever reason I was much more functional for the most part on methadone and shooting dope than I am now in a lot of ways. Strange huh? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I wasn’t feeling any of my emotions 100% and now I’m feeling on such a new level and as a result I’m pretty scattered a lot of the time and I am having a very hard time concentrating on just about anything. Especially work! But I realize that its a process and as long as I roll with the punches (no pun intended) and feel its all gonna work out fine. So nice not waking up sick anymore. So nic! e to be able to walk around and feel like everybody else does. So nice to know I can go anywhere. I don’t have to be married to a bag or stuck in liquid handcuffs one more day. Its all gonna come together. I really like not being a slave even if it means I currently have the attention span of a 12 year old. It’ll all come together…. i hope.
So… I’m happy to report after meeting with the doctor they have concluded that everything in the maxillary area is healing on its own and he only wants to go in now if the area ends up flat which it doesn’t appear to be doing. As for my nose its really not that bad but he has promised to fix it in a few weeks if I want. My vanity might force me to go along with that one but at least its not right now. And that wont be nearly as invasive as full facial surgery. So I’m relieved. Going back for another C.T. but I’m quite sure that this is what it is.
I’m so relieved I don’t have to deal with the though of being on a morphine pump or having to eat oxy’s in the immediate future. I don’t know if that would have been the best thing for me right now. ;o)
Anyone who has access to a decent magazine shop there is a big article on the Underground Project in the July / Aug issue of Tokomo. Very fittingly it is the “do it yourself” issue.  Most of you will recognize some faces.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
The “Monster” only pretends to sleep anyway…..(not to be negative)

-Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.

Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] At the end of the rainbow
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:39:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Seeing as I’ve been posting a bit and feeling strangely at home round here and think I might stick around awhile, I want to share something I’ve written too, by way of introducing myself a bit better.

It may not seem relevant at first, but I think it will become apparent that it is. Its about a music festival we have in Australia, called Rainbow Serpant.

“At the end of the Rainbow”
http://www.inthemix.com.au/features/8539/

cheers
Boris

“At the end of the Rainbow
Reported on Monday, Jan 20, 2003. 16:51 by Infinafta

It is a dusty and dry Monday afternoon at the Rainbow Serpent Festival 2002, located two hours drive west of Melbourne. The festival has been held on Australia Day weekend for the last five years, this weekend drawing about four thousand revelers. It is the last of a string of such festivals held along the east coast of Australia every summer.

A grove of trees in the middle of the campsite is serving as the final refuge for the last remnants of festival goers – the three-day festival may be over, but the party continues. A dozen or so hammocks crisscross the area enveloped in a mesh of colorful banners and tarpaulins. A herd of combi vans and 4WDs surrounds the trees.

This is the only sound system, to still be pumping out the rhythms and around three score trancers have descended on it, like brightly colored moths around a flickering candle. The system is not officially part of the festival, but a private “renegade” setup – one of several such systems at the festival. About a dozen people are sporadically dancing to the unobtrusive beats emanating from the speakers. In the distance the festival site is being dismantled and most of the campsite around us is empty.

Of the people around me, perhaps a third are from Melbourne and a third from other parts of Australia, mainly from Sydney and the NSW north coast, the rest hailing from all corners of the globe – places such as Sweden, the UK, Greece, Israel and Japan.

Many of the faces surrounding me have become familiar over the last month on the festival trail. Of those unknown to me before many have become friends, others I have not officially met, but knowing smiles are exchanged nonetheless on the chance passing. A primordial bond seems to have been awoken within by the long nights and days spent stomping together, a tribal instinct dormant beneath the veneer of modern superficiality remembered.

Commenting on this experience of trance festivals, Lui, from Sydney, who has made the pilgrimage to every one of the last five RSFs, says, “The ritual of dancing outdoors in large groups of people is as old as time, and this is the modern day version of it. I think Psy-Trance is a extremely tribal experience.”

DJing under the name Raptor and promoting parties as part of the Yak and Yeti crew, Lui has been a part of the Sydney trance underground since the mid-nineties, recently launching his latest project, australiens.net, a site dedicated to the Australian Psy-Trance community.

He adds, “The festivals bring us all back to being part of something which I feel society has kind of lost – a real sense of community.”

Benjamin Richards, who organizes the Summer Dreaming festival outside Sydney as part of the Artcore collective, reaffirms these sentiments. In its 4th year, this year’s SD festival, running on the weekend before Rainbow Serpent, drew over 2000 people. Set in the spectacular Glenworth Valley, north of Sydney, the festival was nestled in the lush greenness of the valley, a river running through the campsite, with two nights of music from local and international DJs and live artists.
“I look at it like creating a biosphere, a miniature town or community that is constantly morphing and evolving into parts of space and time.”, says Richards about the organization of SD. “… We create a platform that is up to the people we bring together to fill with energy and life. I just want to create the platform, have it reach far enough across the globe to bring people from different cultures and persuasions together to create a unique vibe and collective unconscious – the basis of the collective trance dance experience. I have traveled the globe, partied on many different continents, I am monolingual, but have shared very special things with people that I can’t verbally communicate with, but for a certain space in time, we have walked together and spiritually ascended. I hope to recreate that feeling on others that I have felt myself, something internally profound.”

When asked about the significance of his own experiences Richards relates, “Trance for me is more personal, an explorative internal meditation that makes me feel more connected to myself and to other people when I am in a party environment. The thing that is so special about it for me is it provides a soundscape that is open to your own interpretation… I want my creative mind to be inspired.”

The themes of tribe, community and internal exploration weave a common thread through the global trance culture, although simply having a bloody good time dancing the night and day away to the music you love, all cultural inhibition abandoned, should not go unmentioned. The fact that the parties are outdoor is also a huge drawing factor. When compared to the beauty of the Australian bush or the beach, where the blue sky is your ceiling, space is virtually unlimited, and walking away from the party for some peace and quiet you find yourself in the serenity of nature, rather than some seedy back streets of the inner city, smoky, crowded clubs quickly lose their appeal. Frequently parties and festivals are located near a swimming hole or the beach, providing an opportunity to cool off in the morning. The day after the party is often whisked away in these beautiful surroundings, and one finds themselves internally recuperated, rather than drained as is usually the case after a night out on the town.

A brief look at the history of this elusive musical genre reveals much about the nature of the surrounding culture. An entity entirely apart from the flamboyantly melodic and anthemic styles of Trance generally associated with clubs and raves – an association generally shunned within Psy-Trance culture – Psychedelic Trance or Psy-Trance emerged from and subsequently grew to encompass the Goa Trance sound that went through a brief but intense period of popularity in the mid-nineties. Goa, on the west coast of India, has been a destination and a home to westerners in pursuit of altered states of consciousness through all night dancing under the influence of psychedelics for over thirty years. The music at the parties on the beaches and in the jungle around Goa progressed from Reggae, Dub and Psychedelic Rock in the 70s, to early House, Techno and Industrial sounds in the 80s. DJs and musicians, inspired by their experiences in Goa, coming home, wanted to recreate the incredible vibe they had discovered at the parties there. The club environment did not lend itself to this experience, so the parties were taken to the outdoors, the connection with nature seen as an important part of the psychedelic journey. At the same time, the music was sought to push the experience further and thus out of the fusion of Acid House and New Wave Industrial, with a pinch of Psychedelic Rock thrown in, Goa Trance was born.

The genre was all but absent from the world of electronic music by the end of 1997, going back into the underground, although in Israel its popularity never abated, with 30000 people turning out for a protest party in Rabin Square, Tel Aviv in 1999, to protest the county’s draconian police policy on Trance events. Through a reinvention of itself as Psy-Trance however, the culture survived and in the last three years has mushroomed in popularity, with new artists and scenes popping up all over the world, from Mexico to China. With a strong influence from Techno, the genre has diversified, spawning a myriad of sub styles that have pushed musical boundaries in completely new directions. For example, Minimal Trance has emerged as a hypnotic and atmospheric style, possessing an entrancing ambience within a structure of crunchy technoid beats. Other sub genres have drawn on Breaks, House and even Jazz and Heavy Metal.

Sharing some of the ideals with and indeed having its distant roots in the 60s counterculture, does not stop the new trance hippie culture from simultaneously wholeheartly embracing technology, rejected by their cultural fore bearers. Trancers are acutely aware that the culture they love so much would not be possible without technology. Not only would the music not be created or the parties produced, although surely the tribal trance dance gathering predates the electronic gadgetry of today by some millennia, but without the World Wide Web and email, not to mention relatively cheap travel costs, there would not be the possibility for the existence of the global trance network that has emerged. In the last year or so, open-air Trance festivals drawing thousands of partygoers, have been held in Morocco, Brazil, Zambia, Portugal, Thailand, Greece and Germany. The biggest festivals in Europe, such as Boom Festival held in Portugal in 2000 and the Solipse Solar Eclipse Festival in Hungary in 1999, have numbered 15 000 – 20 000 people.

On the subject of the role of technology in his life, Richards says “In my home I am surrounded by computers and technology, my turntables for when I want to create a flowing journey that lasts more than 10 mins, my studio when I want to baffle over how to let out what is inside of me. I guess that is the other thing I love about trance and the outdoor festival scene – we are utilizing state of the art technology in every way to create these experiences and enriching them with the most powerful force in the universe – Gaia.”

Another aspect often seen as inherent in this cyber hippie trance culture is the use of drugs and particularly psychedelics. LSD, Psilocybin Mushrooms and Ecstasy are common at parties, while DMT and Salvia Divinorum are seen by the more experienced as tools to explore further some of the realms that the psychedelic trance experience may have opened up. However many trancers, particularly those that have been involved with trance culture for many years, preach caution in drug use and for many abstinence is seen as the only way forward.

Shahar, who runs isratrance.com, one of the most popular Psy-Trance related websites on the Web, had the following to say on the subject: “I feel sad that a lot of people are dependent on the use of the drugs to attain what trance can offer them. Drugs may open a window for those that can’t open it themself, but to get there for real, you need to do it yourselves. Usually the more you use drugs, the smaller and further the window becomes until it fades and disappears.”

“Trance can bring you consciousness naturally”, says Shahar, “ – just melt yourself in the music and forget your body – it comes naturally and than it stays forever. A party can bring us back a unity we no longer have in our lives – we have ourselves, family, and then its city, state. The tribe is missing. When you dance all night and swap energies with the people around you, discover their faces at sunrise and realize you already know them, and leave the party with the energy of 50-2000 people sharing, you get the tribe back in your life.”

And thus we return to the theme of the tribe.

This last year has taken me to the week long Exodus Festival near Byron Bay, The Awakening Festival near Brisbane, then down to Summer Dreaming near Sydney and finally to the Rainbow Serpent near Melbourne. After each festival more and more smiling faces on the dance floor have become familiar. Experiences and journeys have been shared, the tribe has expanded and grown closer together. And although it is now time for some of us to return to our home tribes, we return enriched with new friendships and connections. Already there is talk of a visit to Europe for a run of the festivals there on the home turf of some of my new friends.

As I sit back in a gently rocking hammock, I find myself becoming a little nostalgic about the events of the last year. Scanning the saturnalian party aftermath around me, I smile to myself, remembering a joke someone had made in an Internet forum recently. “When you dance with the rainbow serpent, the rainbow serpent doesn’t change, the rainbow serpent changes you.”

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Still OT… x-box ps2 etc……
Date: June 22, 2005 at 6:06:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hahaha hell yeah
nevr met such a morose pesemistic absouletly  luazyy jokster as the so called CAPTAIN
….i pray to god u stop ths charade and tell a good joke for a change…..Heh
:] …..but i do LOOOVvveeeeeeEEEee you though :]
(the above post is based on email conversations and posts posted to the list by the oh so very funny look at me im in new zeland kirky)
U r The Best hon :-}

Namaste
Matthew

Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 5:55:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, that was great, and about time we heard it here on this list.  How many people are employed at the actual Clinics?  Docs, nurses, orderlies, cleaners, receptionists???? Now, here’s a really funny question… How much funding do these clinics get???????  Then there’s all the buckets for puke, the tissues, toilet paper, cleaning products, linen, towels, mops, and it’s far too early to think of anything else.,.. but  start adding all this up……and it aint cheap.  I’ve been looking after a friend of mine who is removing  herself from an abusive relationship, looking at intensive therapy for childhood abuse issues, so eventually she can get her beautiful children back……. And she’s a mess and it’s really really  hard, so I can see how exhausting and all consuming Providing work would be.  You guys should be paid and paid VERY well.  I’m not sure I could do it. At this stage anyway…
Again, thanks to those of you who do risk your freedom.
Love loads
Kirk :o)
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. No t to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

”VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable. 

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 


Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the u sa ;)

.:vector:.


— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

> Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
> states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
> go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me. 
> 
> -Keith
> 




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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Still OT… x-box ps2 etc……
Date: June 22, 2005 at 5:44:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All I can say to the “story” is OUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!  Man, the
things we do/have done aye???  I remember having to go to work with a
massive pop, just told my bro that it was a bee sting (I was working in a
café)  and then the next day I had farrrr too much opium (iv) and I had to
go home cos I nearly puked on a customer!!! Oh gawd!!!!
Sadly we only have PS one and 2. but I really want an X-box cos I just LOVE
Abes Odessey series and Munchees Odessey I can only find on stoopid X Box
and I really wanna play it!!!!!!  They’re just such cool creatures!!!! And
the Sligs…… You can inhabit their bodies and make them talk  and call
the dogs and their laugh, “hehhehheh Here Boy!!!!” ok nuff reminiscing…if
ya haven’t played it…. and ya like platform, and really using your brain
to figure out how to get past certain stages…GET “IM!!!! (slig voice..)
I’m also very disappointed that I don’t annoy the list… come on, I must
annoy SOMEONE????  I know I just annoy the hell out of Mathew, he thinks my
humour just sucks and he just deletes allllll my emails.  ;o)
Luff luff
Kirk (Preston, I’ll let ya know when I get a X Box!!!! Sounds like fun!!)

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 5:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s
what I’d like to think I do.*) is to be govt funded.<

Kirk,
You never annoy me, and you play shooter videogames so you’re cool in my

book no matter what- btw, do you play X-Box or Playstation? If X-Box we
could get each other on our “friends” lists. (This might seem off-topic, but

a number of us have mentioned at various times that playing videogaming has
helped us one time or another(s) at getting through
withdrawals/irritations/depressions/etc., so it ain’t totally off-topic.)
I’d like to get gov funding again, but I make just enough money to not
qualify without getting into trouble, and not enough to really survive
without V’s help on occassion. I can totally relate to being a “general”
too, in that I take a lot of acting work (mainly background work, which
while easy work totally sucks), and do a lot of dj’ing and freelance writing

and editing stuff too. Whatever I can to get by and hand V money for rent,
bills, etc.
I was getting medicaid back in 1996, when I first got on methadone, having
gotten on it when hospitalized as an “ingigent” person, for a case of septic

arthritis in my right elbow- had me stuck on a locked-ward of Beth Israel
hospital for nearly 8 weeks of the summer of 1996. So I gained a lot of
weight, and made a lot of comments about how “I’m clean now, so I’m gonna do

this, and that, and this and that and this and that and this and that and
boy isn’t life gonna be grand,” then got out, met with V for a few minutes
(we were good friends at that point- not a couple) and then I went out and
got high.
The following has been posted here before, but there are many new people

around who might enjoy the read, a chapter (still in the third-person, which

I’ve now started editing back to first-person, beginning the editing project

yet again) from Something in the Way, my book about my junky misadventures
on certain streets of certain cites around the world.

http://www.drugwar.com/sitwoutofaction.shtm

Out of Action
(chapter 14 of Something in the Way
by Preston Peet- copyright 2001)
posted at DrugWar.com Nov. 17, 2002
“Damnit, missed.”

“Hey man, you gotta be careful with that shit, you’re gonna wind up with an
abscess or something,” Dan says, watching Thomas bend and flex his right
arm, rubbing his elbow, trying to get at least some of the drugs into his
system.

(illustration)

The two of them have been on a steady run for a couple of days already with
no sleep. Thomas’s tired, over-pricked veins are not cooperating as they
should. After large amounts of coke and dope get shot into them, they tend
to try and hide from the needle and drugs, sinking low and not standing out
well when he ties off. He’s been sticking his arm for nearly half an hour,
over and over, struggling to find a vein that will register, to no avail.
There is a torrent of blood running down his arm, which he has taken to
wiping off periodically onto his jeans, which hasn’t helped keep the area
clean of dirt and debris. With the extra blood it’s difficult to see where
he’s trying to hit.

In near hysterics, as soon he has a little blood blossom up inside the rig,
he just shoves the plunger in, and hopes that he had the vein.

It’s a speedball, so the cocaine in the mix numbs the spot he’s shooting.
Therefore he doesn’t feel the sting and burn of the dope going into muscle.

In the pre-dawn dark of the Tompkins Square, back in the corner by the
children’s swimming pool, the streetlights cast a dim light. He’s been
trying to hit almost entirely by feeling for the vein. It’s only once he
gets it all in and doesn’t feel the rush that he knows he missed. He rubs
his elbow again, and finds a marble imbedded under his skin, deep inside.
Rubbing on it to try and massage some of the drugs into his bloodstream does

nothing more than irritate the spot, making it sore even through the coke.

“God, I fucking hate that! What a waste,” whines Thomas aloud. Dan is
wandering around the edge of the basketball court, kicking at the piles of
fallen leaves that have been blown up against the fence. Dan didn’t miss,
now obviously tweaking and looking for who knows what. Thomas sighs and
kneads the front of his forehead, pushing against the headache the miss has
wrought. Though the coke won’t do more than give him this headache, the dope

will enter his system through the muscles. If he’s patient, the dope will
eventually ease the throbbing pain inside his head.

Patience is not one of his stronger suits, not when he’s out of gear as he
now is, so he’s got to get moving. Dan is off in his own world, so Thomas
leaves him to his trip, telling him to meet him back at the pool in a few
hours. Dan will probably be here for most of that time anyway, bugging out.
If he does leave, no big deal. They’ll run into one another again sooner or
later.

It’s early Friday morning, and the Sun is just beginning to show the first
signs of rising, giving the sky that beautiful, deep purple cast that comes
only right before real dawn. As Thomas walks around, he continues to poke
and prod at the now very sore and bruised swelling in the crock of his right

elbow. This doesn’t interfere with his sales ability. He quickly, and
surprisingly considering it is the bare beginnings a week-day, snags a
customer.

The suit wants an 8-ball of blow, so Thomas runs a quick mission for him,
scoring big for himself by inflating the asking price. Sure enough, when he
gets back to the basketball court with his pockets full of goodies not more
than an hour after splitting, Dan is passed out with his rigs sitting in
plain sight on the court beside him.

They spend the rest of the day getting both wired, and increasingly opiated.

Right through the day, they run from nook to cranny getting high, suffering
paranoid delusions, then hiding from phantom cops until their hearts slow
down enough to get up and do it all over again.
In all this time Thomas makes no more than a cursory attempt at wiping
blood, dirt and debris from his arm, certainly doing no thorough cleansing.
The infection starts long before he is aware that there is a serious
problem, becoming well-lodged in his elbow, festering. Even when he realizes

the pain is increasing, he doesn’t slow down. If anything he presses forward

all the harder, pushing himself to such a state of exhaustion and delirium
he is able to get under the agony growing in his arm, and almost ignore it.

When it gets so painful that he can’t use his right hand to shoot, he asks
Dan to do it for him, and they continue on. Upon arrival of dawn the day
after the miss, he is holding his arm bent close to his body, protecting it
from any and all contact. Dan has scored big himself earlier that morning,
and now Thomas suggests that the two of them go and visit a friend of his, a

sweet and lovely girl named Vanessa he’s met not long before while walking
down the 10th St. sidewalk. Though she doesn’t get high, she is intrigued by

Thomas, and has let him crash over once or twice.

(illustration)

snip-

More at above URL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

Heyy Welcome Sjonny GEee!!
Oops spelling is off tonight, been murdering monsters in hell whilst playing

Doom (plutonia) still a bit shakey from killing one of the big buggers.
Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s
what I’d like to think I do.*) is to be govt funded.  I’m a General (I
generally do anything it takes to survive.) and until they stop bleeding
small businesses and others alive I at this unqualified stage cannot make
enough working!! Sad? Yes indeedy I love working. But I also like partial
sanity and my daughter..
Anywayyyy that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!!!  (and many thanks for
the taxes…I do work sometimes so I pretty much pay my own way, give or
take a few bucks lol)
As for Preston n V… I;m not sure whose boots I wanna nick off with!!!!
Great pic I love the wedding card idea!!!  It’s the kind of thing that would

definitely set my mother off on a long series of Conniption Fits.
Ok, back to killing things…muhahahahaha
Koiky

From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop
at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your

sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a
thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician ,

Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people
ied.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves
in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
<captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 5:31:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I got sent Ibogaine in 2000, to NZ even though we have no laws (as yet)
on this stuff (virtually unheard of… )  there was still a little paranoia,
cos they put lavender, patchouli and sage along with charcoal burners to
make it look like it was all herbal stuff.  Stupid customs decided the
lavender and patchouli had seeds in them so they detained them and destroyed
them (hope they got a nice whiff at least! I’ve never seen real patchouli
:o(   )  well they had to heat the herbs to cook any seeds in them,
anyyyywayyyyy… got the ibo fine, just hope we keep being a way behind
country and don’t catch up with USA’s policy on Ibo.

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 5:24 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OFF TOPIC–something really funny
Date: June 22, 2005 at 5:16:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HaaaaaBrilliant joke to wake up to this morning!!
Cheers Mr Mattyou ;o)
Luff heaps
Kirk
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 4:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OFF TOPIC–something really funny

Modern Version of the Birds & the Bees.  
 
 
Little boy goes to his father and asks “Daddy, how was I born?”? The  father 
answers:? “Well, son, I guess one day you will need to find out  anyway! 
Your Mom and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set  up a 
date via e-mail with your Mom and we met at a cyber-cafe. 
 
We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a  download 
from my hard drive.? As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered  that 
neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to  hit  the 
delete button, nine months later a blessed little Pop-Up appeared and  said: 
 
You’ve Got Male!”

Namaste
Matthew
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:06:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

issue 48 the “do it yourself” issue.

— mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

I checked and I dont see a website but there is an
email address. usmail@tokion.com

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is it that’s supposed to be in tokion? All I
get is a fanzine. No
ibogaine related story if that’s what is there?
URL
please? >
http://www.tokion.com has nothing.

— mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

the correct spelling of the mag on the article
about the underground
is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorc”oran27@yahoo.com> wrote:1500
bucks
is the cheapest in
the world. Also it is an extremely expensive
medication. There are
only 3 sources in the world to get it and if
were
talking about the
HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it
actually does cost the
providers.

No I wouldn’t 😉 I’ve been reading this list since
2001 🙂 I know
ibogaine is expensive, my question was about what
Preston said in his
message and what would really be the difference
between someone who has
already done ibogaine let’s say 4 or 5 times doing
it themselves
instead of having someone else treat them. This
wasn’t a argument it
was only a question I had when reading Preston’s
posts, he’s a walking
encyclopedia on drug addiction and seeing what
he’s
written about
ibogaine from the first time he did it to this
last
time, without
knowing Preston or what’s happening it looks like
he
is getting less
and less out of the experience every time. Am I
wrong in writing this
preston?

Mark since you answered, can I ask you the other
half of my question?
What does happen when you relapse. What makes that
one time different
then all the other times you thought about it but
didn’t do it and is
it impossible to stop after that or only very very
hard to stop?

.:vector:.

____________________________________________________

Yahoo! Sports
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Football

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:02:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

will you  send me a copy?

thanks for making this clear, but what most people say  ” it is not my fault,

…f*** IT who cares?”

until they get a problem one day and they would have hoped that there
was a person who would have helped … but everyone is gone to find a new
job.

hey, I also could sell to you 15 bundles, in every street in every city
you can find people who will be happy to sell any kind of drug to help you
get high and fucked up. those drug dealers always get paid.
now , us as treatment provider who are dead broke and still willing to help
everyone even just for improvements of the lifestyle, no preaching  no
judging,
just to create a opportunity for development… and there is so much we could
develop, I have seen with my own eyes how people get infection coming out
of their bodies after the treatment, the iboga detoxify more then only
opiates, those infection are showing not only in addicts also in non
addicts
who have unhealthy lifestyle. and sure ibogaine/iboga have more uses that
we could learn about but only few people care to know.
from all those hundreds of people who used Ibogaine/iboga , only few who
become iboga activist, the rest will forget, but it is like the story of
the 100monkeys. so we must go on doing what we got to do and see what
happens, even without sponsors we will find a way to keep on doing what we
got to do. just because iboga teaches you how to simplify your life and
how important it is to value yourself right, dignity not arrogance.it is
up to the level of understanding what a person can learn, ( I’m not
talking about people who have chronic pains and need painkillers.)

S.

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is
TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:1500 bucks is the cheapest in the
world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3
sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think
you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment
on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real
money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability
to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people
should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you
should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want
as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that
having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the
only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go?
It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake
for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the
bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there
having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine.
Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and
after the treatment. Not to mention, knowning WHEN
to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a
few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as
some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to
effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too
much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work
and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things
for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and
from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t
missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and
bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does
not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship.
You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to
it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I
have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled
like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale
all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime,
the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this
so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell,
for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem
comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:00:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I checked and I dont see a website but there is an
email address. usmail@tokion.com

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is it that’s supposed to be in tokion? All I
get is a fanzine. No
ibogaine related story if that’s what is there? URL
please? >
http://www.tokion.com has nothing.

— mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

the correct spelling of the mag on the article
about the underground
is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:1500 bucks
is the cheapest in
the world. Also it is an extremely expensive
medication. There are
only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were
talking about the
HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it
actually does cost the
providers.

No I wouldn’t 😉 I’ve been reading this list since
2001 🙂 I know
ibogaine is expensive, my question was about what
Preston said in his
message and what would really be the difference
between someone who has
already done ibogaine let’s say 4 or 5 times doing
it themselves
instead of having someone else treat them. This
wasn’t a argument it
was only a question I had when reading Preston’s
posts, he’s a walking
encyclopedia on drug addiction and seeing what he’s
written about
ibogaine from the first time he did it to this last
time, without
knowing Preston or what’s happening it looks like he
is getting less
and less out of the experience every time. Am I
wrong in writing this
preston?

Mark since you answered, can I ask you the other
half of my question?
What does happen when you relapse. What makes that
one time different
then all the other times you thought about it but
didn’t do it and is
it impossible to stop after that or only very very
hard to stop?

.:vector:.

____________________________________________________

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 3:25:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is it that’s supposed to be in tokion? All I get is a fanzine. No
ibogaine related story if that’s what is there? URL please? >
http://www.tokion.com has nothing.

— mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground
is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:1500 bucks is the cheapest in
the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are
only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the
HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the
providers.

No I wouldn’t 😉 I’ve been reading this list since 2001 🙂 I know
ibogaine is expensive, my question was about what Preston said in his
message and what would really be the difference between someone who has
already done ibogaine let’s say 4 or 5 times doing it themselves
instead of having someone else treat them. This wasn’t a argument it
was only a question I had when reading Preston’s posts, he’s a walking
encyclopedia on drug addiction and seeing what he’s written about
ibogaine from the first time he did it to this last time, without
knowing Preston or what’s happening it looks like he is getting less
and less out of the experience every time. Am I wrong in writing this
preston?

Mark since you answered, can I ask you the other half of my question?
What does happen when you relapse. What makes that one time different
then all the other times you thought about it but didn’t do it and is
it impossible to stop after that or only very very hard to stop?

.:vector:.

____________________________________________________
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http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 3:09:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, you sure told me. Thanks.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:55 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

> Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
> states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
> go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.
>
> -Keith
>

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 3:02:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yowsa, great reply! I don’t know about the cost of procurment (sp?) but I agree with everything else you quoted!

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:55:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

> Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
> states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
> go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.
>
> -Keith
>

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:55:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the correct spelling of the mag on the article about the underground is TOKION

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

> Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
> states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
> go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.
>
> -Keith
>

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:47:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

1500 bucks is the cheapest in the world. Also it is an extremely expensive medication. There are only 3 sources in the world to get it and if were talking about the HCL I think you’d be surprised how much it actually does cost the providers.
Okay I’m actually sitting next to a provider who has asked me to comment on what was just discussed.
– “First of all, most providers are dead broke and are not making any real money on this. We are risking our freedom to give some people the ability to experience this. Most work on a sliding scale. I agree that people should be able to get Ibogaine if they want it I also believe that you should be able to shoot battery acid in your dick if thats what you want as well. Every provider from St. Kitts to the underground agrees that having a family member in the room is not the best and having them as the only people in the room is just a plain bad idea. Where does the money go? It goes to the cost of the medication which is substantial. Staying awake for three days, cleaning up vomit shit and blood. Helping someone to the bathroom or holding a bottle so they can piss. Calming them down if there having a hard time. Knowing how much and when to give more ibogaine. Making sure they stay hydrated hours spent talking on the phone before and after the treatment. Not to mention, knowning WHEN to call the ambulance. But most importantly EXPERIENCE. Taking Ibogaine a few times does not give you the ability to see into the future as much as some might like to think so. You never know how this drug is going to effect you.
I personally don’t think that St. Kitts or Mexico or Sara or we charge too much. I was raised to believe that people should be paid for there work and believe me this is work. Yeah your right you can buy a lot of things for 1,500 buck… 15 bundles.”

So there you go. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?” Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” wrote:

> Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
> states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
> go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.
>
> -Keith
>

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:47:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.”

“Contraindicated”, any source that being the case would be apprecated. As far as I know that thinking is out of “the dark ages”.  here is the ASAM policy from 1996 on opiates and addiction. However and unfortunately a HX of substance abuse is several red flags and pressures not to prescribe, there are liability issues should a person with a known history be given abusable drugs… Many (gods honest) chronic pain patients just don’t mention their history and know how to take “meds”, many of course don’t… If they have a problem or not is according to the particular patient, not their history ..

It is IMO in-humane not to prescribe pain meds (to whatever level necessary) to the suffering, having had it done to me in the past numerous times it is/was not at all helpful in my “recovery’.

brett

http://www.medsch.wisc.edu/painpolicy/domestic/model.htm

MODEL GUIDELINES FOR THE USE OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES 
FOR THE TREATMENT OF PAIN

THE FEDERATION OF STATE MEDICAL BOARDS OF THE UNITED STATES, INC.
(Adopted May 2, 1998)
Section I: Preamble
The (name of board) recognizes that principles of quality medical practice dictate that the people of the State of (name of state) have access to appropriate and effective pain relief. The appropriate application of up-to-date knowledge and treatment modalities can serve to improve the quality of life for those patients who suffer from pain as well as to reduce the morbidity and costs associated with untreated or inappropriately treated pain. The Board encourages physicians to view effective pain management as a part of quality medical practice for all patients with pain, acute or chronic, and it is especially important for patients who experience pain as a result of terminal illness. All physicians should become knowledgeable about effective methods of pain treatment as well as statutory requirements for prescribing controlled substances.
Inadequate pain control may result from physicians’ lack of knowledge about pain management or an inadequate understanding of addiction. Fears of investigation or sanction by federal, state, and local regulatory agencies may also result in inappropriate or inadequate treatment of chronic pain patients. Accordingly, these guidelines have been developed to clarify the Board’s position on pain control, specifically as related to the use of controlled substances, to alleviate physician uncertainty and to encourage better pain management.
The Board recognizes that controlled substances, including opioid analgesics, may be essential in the treatment of acute pain due to trauma or surgery and chronic pain, whether due to cancer or non-cancer origins. Physicians are referred to the U.S. Agency for Health Care and Research Clinical Practice Guidelines for a sound approach to the management of acute1 and cancer-related pain.2
The medical management of pain should be based upon current knowledge and research and includes the use of both pharmacologic and non-pharmacologic modalities. Pain should be assessed and treated promptly and the quantity and frequency of doses should be adjusted according to the intensity and duration of the pain. Physicians should recognize that tolerance and physical dependence are normal consequences of sustained use of opioid analgesics and are not synonymous with addiction.
The (state medical board) is obligated under the laws of the State of (name of state) to protect the public health and safety. The Board recognizes that inappropriate prescribing of controlled substances, including opioid analgesics, may lead to drug diversion and abuse by individuals who seek them for other than legitimate medical use. Physicians should be diligent in preventing the diversion of drugs for illegitimate purposes.
Physicians should not fear disciplinary action from the Board or other state regulatory or enforcement agency for prescribing, dispensing, or administering controlled substances, including opioid analgesics, for a legitimate medical purpose and in the usual course of professional practice. The Board will consider prescribing, ordering, administering, or dispensing controlled substances for pain to be for a legitimate medical purpose if based on accepted scientific knowledge of the treatment of pain or if based on sound clinical grounds. All such prescribing must be based on clear documentation of unrelieved pain and in compliance with applicable state or federal law.
Each case of prescribing for pain will be evaluated on an individual basis. The board will not take disciplinary action against a physician for failing to adhere strictly to the provisions of these guidelines, if good cause is shown for such deviation. The physician’s conduct will be evaluated to a great extent by the treatment outcome, taking into account whether the drug used is medically and/or pharmacologically recognized to be appropriate for the diagnosis, the patient’s individual needs including any improvement in functioning, and recognizing that some types of pain cannot be completely relieved.
The Board will judge the validity of prescribing based on the physician’s treatment of the patient and on available documentation, rather than on the quantity and chronicity of prescribing. The goal is to control the patient’s pain for its duration while effectively addressing other aspects of the patient’s functioning, including physical, psychological, social and work-related factors. The following guidelines are not intended to define complete or best practice, but rather to communicate what the Board considers to be within the boundaries of professional practice.
Continued

Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:18:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow! You beat me to it Vector…your psychic!

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:11:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Vector, I kinda figured this after reading a little on Erowid and from different online smart shops. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something ;} Sometimes there are ways around these Regs and bylaws.

On a different note, can we discuss price? Ibogaine as a raw material does not cost a substantial amount, even in the stores that do sell and ship. You could conceivably grow it in your yard without anyone taking notice to it, very few people are even aware of it’s use as a drug of any kind..I have plenty of dope fien’nin acquaintances that just look at me puzzled like when I mention it. I don’t know about anywhere else but in my locale all the authorities are busy enough with hard core narcotics and crime, the average cops would probably say “Ibogaine? What’s that?”   Why is this so expensive! Earlier someone said that $1500 was a decent price, hell, for that I could buy a whole lot of ANY thing else…it doesn’t seem comprable.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] relapse and treatment
Date: June 22, 2005 at 2:07:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a question for the peeps who are mostly in the NYC area that
have been treated. Preston wrote a message saying that most people were
not staying clean after ibogaine and didn’t hold it together and then
wrote he didn’t want the guide or a ‘treatment’ that goes for thousands
of dollars when he’d rather get the ibogaine and do it himself.

Not being in NYC and only knowing the peeps who write here a lot, I
know Randy is mostly on cloud 9 and he put in the work to get himself a
new life. He is the exception I can think of while reading this list.

My question for all the other peeps treated in NY is, what happens when
you relapse and if that’s a loaded word or one of those clean or dirty
discussions sorry and I don’t mean to step on any toes, what I’m asking
is what makes that one time when you do go out and get heroin different
then all the other times you _want to_ but don’t do it.

Also after that first time, does addiction work in a way that it’s like
a death sentence? It looks almost like the first time almost for sure
will be followed by the second, third ,etc, time and it’s back on
heroin, half a year of that, then another ibogaine detox.

Is it not possible to stop after that one slip?

My second question is about guides and treatment instead of ibogaine
itself. I plan to do ibogaine for the first time and I already know
where I am going and who I feel the most comfortable with (Sara :).
After reading this list nearly since it started I would not want to be
doing ibogaine alone or with anyone who doesn’t know what they’re
doing.

What I want to ask is, if you’re doing ibogaine to interrupt addiction
and you’ve already done it 3 or 4 times, you know what’s going to
happen, you know how you respond to it. What exactly is the point of
having a ‘guide’ or ‘treatment’? What Preston wrote made me think about
this, I mean in a underground setting it’s not like the other person
there is going to do anything if there is a problem except (hopefully)
dial a ambulance. What’s the point of that instead of getting ibogaine
and doing it yourself with your girlfriend or family given the same
instructions?

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 1:58:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s what I’d like to think I do.*) is to be govt funded.<

Kirk,
You never annoy me, and you play shooter videogames so you’re cool in my book no matter what- btw, do you play X-Box or Playstation? If X-Box we could get each other on our “friends” lists. (This might seem off-topic, but a number of us have mentioned at various times that playing videogaming has helped us one time or another(s) at getting through withdrawals/irritations/depressions/etc., so it ain’t totally off-topic.)
I’d like to get gov funding again, but I make just enough money to not qualify without getting into trouble, and not enough to really survive without V’s help on occassion. I can totally relate to being a “general” too, in that I take a lot of acting work (mainly background work, which while easy work totally sucks), and do a lot of dj’ing and freelance writing and editing stuff too. Whatever I can to get by and hand V money for rent, bills, etc.
I was getting medicaid back in 1996, when I first got on methadone, having gotten on it when hospitalized as an “ingigent” person, for a case of septic arthritis in my right elbow- had me stuck on a locked-ward of Beth Israel hospital for nearly 8 weeks of the summer of 1996. So I gained a lot of weight, and made a lot of comments about how “I’m clean now, so I’m gonna do this, and that, and this and that and this and that and this and that and boy isn’t life gonna be grand,” then got out, met with V for a few minutes (we were good friends at that point- not a couple) and then I went out and got high.
The following has been posted here before, but there are many new people around who might enjoy the read, a chapter (still in the third-person, which I’ve now started editing back to first-person, beginning the editing project yet again) from Something in the Way, my book about my junky misadventures on certain streets of certain cites around the world.

http://www.drugwar.com/sitwoutofaction.shtm

Out of Action
(chapter 14 of Something in the Way
by Preston Peet- copyright 2001)
posted at DrugWar.com Nov. 17, 2002
“Damnit, missed.”

“Hey man, you gotta be careful with that shit, you’re gonna wind up with an abscess or something,” Dan says, watching Thomas bend and flex his right arm, rubbing his elbow, trying to get at least some of the drugs into his system.

(illustration)

The two of them have been on a steady run for a couple of days already with no sleep. Thomas’s tired, over-pricked veins are not cooperating as they should. After large amounts of coke and dope get shot into them, they tend to try and hide from the needle and drugs, sinking low and not standing out well when he ties off. He’s been sticking his arm for nearly half an hour, over and over, struggling to find a vein that will register, to no avail. There is a torrent of blood running down his arm, which he has taken to wiping off periodically onto his jeans, which hasn’t helped keep the area clean of dirt and debris. With the extra blood it’s difficult to see where he’s trying to hit.

In near hysterics, as soon he has a little blood blossom up inside the rig, he just shoves the plunger in, and hopes that he had the vein.

It’s a speedball, so the cocaine in the mix numbs the spot he’s shooting. Therefore he doesn’t feel the sting and burn of the dope going into muscle.

In the pre-dawn dark of the Tompkins Square, back in the corner by the children’s swimming pool, the streetlights cast a dim light. He’s been trying to hit almost entirely by feeling for the vein. It’s only once he gets it all in and doesn’t feel the rush that he knows he missed. He rubs his elbow again, and finds a marble imbedded under his skin, deep inside. Rubbing on it to try and massage some of the drugs into his bloodstream does nothing more than irritate the spot, making it sore even through the coke.

“God, I fucking hate that! What a waste,” whines Thomas aloud. Dan is wandering around the edge of the basketball court, kicking at the piles of fallen leaves that have been blown up against the fence. Dan didn’t miss, now obviously tweaking and looking for who knows what. Thomas sighs and kneads the front of his forehead, pushing against the headache the miss has wrought. Though the coke won’t do more than give him this headache, the dope will enter his system through the muscles. If he’s patient, the dope will eventually ease the throbbing pain inside his head.

Patience is not one of his stronger suits, not when he’s out of gear as he now is, so he’s got to get moving. Dan is off in his own world, so Thomas leaves him to his trip, telling him to meet him back at the pool in a few hours. Dan will probably be here for most of that time anyway, bugging out. If he does leave, no big deal. They’ll run into one another again sooner or later.

It’s early Friday morning, and the Sun is just beginning to show the first signs of rising, giving the sky that beautiful, deep purple cast that comes only right before real dawn. As Thomas walks around, he continues to poke and prod at the now very sore and bruised swelling in the crock of his right elbow. This doesn’t interfere with his sales ability. He quickly, and surprisingly considering it is the bare beginnings a week-day, snags a customer.

The suit wants an 8-ball of blow, so Thomas runs a quick mission for him, scoring big for himself by inflating the asking price. Sure enough, when he gets back to the basketball court with his pockets full of goodies not more than an hour after splitting, Dan is passed out with his rigs sitting in plain sight on the court beside him.

They spend the rest of the day getting both wired, and increasingly opiated. Right through the day, they run from nook to cranny getting high, suffering paranoid delusions, then hiding from phantom cops until their hearts slow down enough to get up and do it all over again.
In all this time Thomas makes no more than a cursory attempt at wiping blood, dirt and debris from his arm, certainly doing no thorough cleansing. The infection starts long before he is aware that there is a serious problem, becoming well-lodged in his elbow, festering. Even when he realizes the pain is increasing, he doesn’t slow down. If anything he presses forward all the harder, pushing himself to such a state of exhaustion and delirium he is able to get under the agony growing in his arm, and almost ignore it.

When it gets so painful that he can’t use his right hand to shoot, he asks Dan to do it for him, and they continue on. Upon arrival of dawn the day after the miss, he is holding his arm bent close to his body, protecting it from any and all contact. Dan has scored big himself earlier that morning, and now Thomas suggests that the two of them go and visit a friend of his, a sweet and lovely girl named Vanessa he’s met not long before while walking down the 10th St. sidewalk. Though she doesn’t get high, she is intrigued by Thomas, and has let him crash over once or twice.

(illustration)

snip-

More at above URL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

Heyy Welcome Sjonny GEee!!
Oops spelling is off tonight, been murdering monsters in hell whilst playing Doom (plutonia) still a bit shakey from killing one of the big buggers.
Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s what I’d like to think I do.*) is to be govt funded.  I’m a General (I generally do anything it takes to survive.) and until they stop bleeding small businesses and others alive I at this unqualified stage cannot make enough working!! Sad? Yes indeedy I love working. But I also like partial sanity and my daughter..
Anywayyyy that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!!!  (and many thanks for the taxes…I do work sometimes so I pretty much pay my own way, give or take a few bucks lol)
As for Preston n V… I;m not sure whose boots I wanna nick off with!!!! Great pic I love the wedding card idea!!!  It’s the kind of thing that would definitely set my mother off on a long series of Conniption Fits.
Ok, back to killing things…muhahahahaha
Koiky

From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”
<captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close
in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next,
Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 1:24:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reputable and shipping ibogaine into the united states don’t work in
the same sentence 😉 No store that wants to stay in business is going
to ship a package that becomes a schedule 1 drug when it lands. I doubt
this is for any ethical reasons, because what’s ethical about the “war
on drugs” or interest in american drug policy, it’s the much simpler if
something goes wrong and the package is stopped, they could have a lot
of problems. Nobody is going to risk their business over making one
sale to someone in the usa.

At the same time there doesn’t look like there is any lack of peeps who
have no problems getting ibogaine in the usa 😉

.:vector:.

— “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the
states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to
go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 12:48:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes, Preston, How do you feel today? do you still feel the glow of the
booster dose?
on my part, just be who you like to be and that’s great already.

all the best ,

sara

Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts
to
this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and
woes
of a drug laden/free life.<

Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer writing
and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three passes through
my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.

It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band
rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone
here
nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is
and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ?<

Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always good
but
might not get your rates increased as much as mine.

The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician ,
Dance
Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t
wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on
that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people
died.<

That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make me
laugh
out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist” sounds very
cool.

So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to
type …………Can I get a contract ?<

Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally
decided
I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I started writing when
I
got home from my then-job putting together the innards of such places as
the
Marvel Comics themed restaurant out in Universal Studios in California (we
built all the panels and artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these
panels to make the place look like a spaceship or something, among other
artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body rapidly
approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to continue with
that
sort of work, and wanted to do something where I could say the things I
thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I could get paid
simultaneously,
more power to me. So I wrote, pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote,
wrote,
wrote, pitched, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection
slips and then gradually started selling my writing.
Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a desk
chair
at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude here, taking it
away there.
At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
;-))
V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an
opinion
I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to no complaints.
Any other questions?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a
pop
at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who
your
sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a
thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
,
Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was
good),
Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t
wish
to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in
Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners
destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that
site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people
ied.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap
yourselves
in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not more
than
a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars being closer to
the
Earth, what do we find but someone who has a telescope, set at that same
75
magnification mentioned in that article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could
plainly see Jupiter through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the
size of the moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and
four
of its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. Anyway,
there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the telescope. I got
to
tell everyone standing there, including the guy with the telescope, about
the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already?
I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to
see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And
they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if
I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star
gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how
Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve
no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of
a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 12:20:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sjonnygee asked >I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.<

Speaking for myself only, this is my job, sitting at the computer writing and reading all day long. So, when a spare thought or three passes through my mind and I feel like sharing it, I do.

It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ?<

Here’s the number 212-555-5555. Give hir a call. Attitude is always good but might not get your rates increased as much as mine.

The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.<

That “activist” rating I’m not sure counts sjonny, but it did make me laugh out loud. I like the bio, and “dance percussion therapist” sounds very cool.

So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type …………Can I get a contract ?<

Weeeelllllll, if you’re serious, which I doubt you are, I personally decided I wanted to be a “writer” and get paid to do so. So I started writing when I got home from my then-job putting together the innards of such places as the Marvel Comics themed restaurant out in Universal Studios in California (we built all the panels and artistic stuff here in Manhattan, building these panels to make the place look like a spaceship or something, among other artsy-carpenterish jobs like that), because I could feel my body rapidly approaching the point where I wasn’t going to be able to continue with that sort of work, and wanted to do something where I could say the things I thought needed saying (by me anyway) and if I could get paid simultaneously, more power to me. So I wrote, pitched, walked, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, wrote, pitched, mailed, worked, wrote, wrote, got shitloads of rejection slips and then gradually started selling my writing.
Put in the time, you too might be able to strap yourself to a desk chair at home and type all the merry day long, adding attitude here, taking it away there.
At least you’ve got a band practice to cancel, which I envy.
;-))
V loves my nose btw. And my dress(es). And she’s the one with an opinion I really, really care about, so in that regard, I’ve few to no complaints.
Any other questions?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Sjonnygee .
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:26 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people ied.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OFF TOPIC–something really funny
Date: June 22, 2005 at 12:01:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Modern Version of the Birds & the Bees.

Little boy goes to his father and asks “Daddy, how was I born?”? The  father
answers:? “Well, son, I guess one day you will need to find out  anyway!
Your Mom and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set  up a
date via e-mail with your Mom and we met at a cyber-cafe.

We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a  download
from my hard drive.? As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered  that
neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to  hit  the
delete button, nine months later a blessed little Pop-Up appeared and  said:

You’ve Got Male!”

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 22, 2005 at 11:37:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

in my experience it does work well but then I used Iboga not Ibogaine.

you can eat iboga while drunk on alcohol , but you can’t do that with
opiates.
there is more… but i will only answer a private email.

sara

To clairify, I am not physically addicted to alcohol. :o)  What I was
trying to say was that you cannot treat somone with Ibogaine for alcohol
until they are first phycially detoxed becasue Ibogaine might work wonders
for opiate withdrawl it doesn’t work well for alcohol.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Then why does it seem espceially with people whose livers are not
compromised struggle the hardest to this one?  I don’t know if crave is
the right word here but after Ibo I always am open or don’t rule out a
drink in the future but where as when it comes to dope and coke post ibo
its the last thing in the world I would consider.
I know that for people who are not physcially addicted to alcohol it has
worked well but for me and others I know its the hardest one to turn away
from entirely. But what do I know?

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
Hey guys, its lil randy again. I was just curious as to how well ibo
really
works when alcohol related. i’ve read alot of articles on how scientists
have
used it successfully on rats and mice, but I would like to hear about
some
rsults that maybe some of you have had! Also, how effective would just a
little
booster have to just curve the craving? I would appreciate any info i
can
get
on this. Thanks
Randy

It works just the same on Alcohol as on the other stuff.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

———————————
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———————————
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 22, 2005 at 11:26:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To clairify, I am not physically addicted to alcohol. :o)  What I was trying to say was that you cannot treat somone with Ibogaine for alcohol until they are first phycially detoxed becasue Ibogaine might work wonders for opiate withdrawl it doesn’t work well for alcohol.
mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Then why does it seem espceially with people whose livers are not compromised struggle the hardest to this one?  I don’t know if crave is the right word here but after Ibo I always am open or don’t rule out a drink in the future but where as when it comes to dope and coke post ibo its the last thing in the world I would consider.
I know that for people who are not physcially addicted to alcohol it has worked well but for me and others I know its the hardest one to turn away from entirely. But what do I know?
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Hey guys, its lil randy again. I was just curious as to how well ibo
> really
> works when alcohol related. i’ve read alot of articles on how scientists
> have
> used it successfully on rats and mice, but I would like to hear about some
> rsults that maybe some of you have had! Also, how effective would just a
> little
> booster have to just curve the craving? I would appreciate any info i can
> get
> on this. Thanks
> Randy
>

It works just the same on Alcohol as on the other stuff.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Sports
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 22, 2005 at 11:18:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Then why does it seem espceially with people whose livers are not compromised struggle the hardest to this one?  I don’t know if crave is the right word here but after Ibo I always am open or don’t rule out a drink in the future but where as when it comes to dope and coke post ibo its the last thing in the world I would consider.
I know that for people who are not physcially addicted to alcohol it has worked well but for me and others I know its the hardest one to turn away from entirely. But what do I know?
sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Hey guys, its lil randy again. I was just curious as to how well ibo
> really
> works when alcohol related. i’ve read alot of articles on how scientists
> have
> used it successfully on rats and mice, but I would like to hear about some
> rsults that maybe some of you have had! Also, how effective would just a
> little
> booster have to just curve the craving? I would appreciate any info i can
> get
> on this. Thanks
> Randy
>

It works just the same on Alcohol as on the other stuff.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 11:18:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Preston, I’ve thinking about acquiring some Ibo and self treating, I have a lot of reading on this to do yet and may end up soliciting help from like minded friends.

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:10 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

from what I can tell, the best way is to get it sent to you or a friend of
yours in Canada, then go up and mail it down.
Or something. I can’t seem to find anyone who will mail it into the US.
I wonder why.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the states
or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to go around the
usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 11:05:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks man. I definitely don’t have it together by a long shot but I’m three months out and I have had more clean time this year than dirty and I do feel I’ve turned the corner in a lot of respects with the dope thing anyway, cuz as any of the people on this site who know me personally know, I am just about the most miserable person on earth when I’m strung out. No laughing, no smiling, and I do a whole lot of that these days no matter how unmanageable my life might feel sometimes.
As for Ibo being shipped to the US your kinda out of luck unless you have a friend in Canada who can receive it for you. And I don’t believe you can open a Canada P.O. box without being a resident.
However, I’m not sure where your located but the underground has been known to travel. Email me off the list for more info. -M.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 11:10:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

from what I can tell, the best way is to get it sent to you or a friend of yours in Canada, then go up and mail it down.
Or something. I can’t seem to find anyone who will mail it into the US.
I wonder why.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:57:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey guys, its lil randy again. I was just curious as to how well ibo
really
works when alcohol related. i’ve read alot of articles on how scientists
have
used it successfully on rats and mice, but I would like to hear about some
rsults that maybe some of you have had! Also, how effective would just a
little
booster have to just curve the craving? I would appreciate any  info i can
get
on this.         Thanks
Randy

It works just the same on Alcohol as on the other stuff.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:52:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know of a reputable entho shop that will ship ibo to the states or do I have to scuff around for it, since I am trying not to go around the usual haunts this might pose a problem for me.

-Keith

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Using Ibo for alcoholism treatment???
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:42:30 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey guys, its lil randy again. I was just curious as to how well ibo really works when alcohol related. i’ve read alot of articles on how scientists have used it successfully on rats and mice, but I would like to hear about some rsults that maybe some of you have had! Also, how effective would just a little booster have to just curve the craving? I would appreciate any  info i can get on this.         Thanks
Randy

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Imogene] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:39:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow! It sounds like you have it together fairly well. Congrats! I might only have 3-5 days clean, but my head is and has been above water for awhile. I’m a little jealous of your success. Keep on keeping on bud!

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:19 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] painkillers

I think my monster is as asleep as its ever been. I feel as though I am currently operating in a real pre-addicted state this time around and I didn’t have that the first time. That not to say that things are prefect because in so many ways my life is more unmanageable than its ever been. But I think I already established with you guys that for whatever reason I was much more functional for the most part on methadone and shooting dope than I am now in a lot of ways. Strange huh? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I wasn’t feeling any of my emotions 100% and now I’m feeling on such a new level and as a result I’m pretty scattered a lot of the time and I am having a very hard time concentrating on just about anything. Especially work! But I realize that its a process and as long as I roll with the punches (no pun intended) and feel its all gonna work out fine. So nice not waking up sick anymore. So nice to be able to walk around and feel like everybody else does. So nice to know I can go anywhere. I don’t have to be married to a bag or stuck in liquid handcuffs one more day. Its all gonna come together. I really like not being a slave even if it means I currently have the attention span of a 12 year old. It’ll all come together…. i hope.
So… I’m happy to report after meeting with the doctor they have concluded that everything in the maxillary area is healing on its own and he only wants to go in now if the area ends up flat which it doesn’t appear to be doing. As for my nose its really not that bad but he has promised to fix it in a few weeks if I want. My vanity might force me to go along with that one but at least its not right now. And that wont be nearly as invasive as full facial surgery. So I’m relieved. Going back for another C.T. but I’m quite sure that this is what it is.
I’m so relieved I don’t have to deal with the though of being on a morphine pump or having to eat oxy’s in the immediate future. I don’t know if that would have been the best thing for me right now. ;o)
Anyone who has access to a decent magazine shop there is a big article on the Underground Project in the July / Aug issue of Tokomo. Very fittingly it is the “do it yourself” issue.  Most of you will recognize some faces.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
The “Monster” only pretends to sleep anyway…..(not to be negative)

-Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.

Yahoo! Mail Mobile
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 10:19:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think my monster is as asleep as its ever been. I feel as though I am currently operating in a real pre-addicted state this time around and I didn’t have that the first time. That not to say that things are prefect because in so many ways my life is more unmanageable than its ever been. But I think I already established with you guys that for whatever reason I was much more functional for the most part on methadone and shooting dope than I am now in a lot of ways. Strange huh? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I wasn’t feeling any of my emotions 100% and now I’m feeling on such a new level and as a result I’m pretty scattered a lot of the time and I am having a very hard time concentrating on just about anything. Especially work! But I realize that its a process and as long as I roll with the punches (no pun intended) and feel its all gonna work out fine. So nice not waking up sick anymore. So nice to be able to walk around and feel like everybody else does. So nice to know I can go anywhere. I don’t have to be married to a bag or stuck in liquid handcuffs one more day. Its all gonna come together. I really like not being a slave even if it means I currently have the attention span of a 12 year old. It’ll all come together…. i hope.
So… I’m happy to report after meeting with the doctor they have concluded that everything in the maxillary area is healing on its own and he only wants to go in now if the area ends up flat which it doesn’t appear to be doing. As for my nose its really not that bad but he has promised to fix it in a few weeks if I want. My vanity might force me to go along with that one but at least its not right now. And that wont be nearly as invasive as full facial surgery. So I’m relieved. Going back for another C.T. but I’m quite sure that this is what it is.
I’m so relieved I don’t have to deal with the though of being on a morphine pump or having to eat oxy’s in the immediate future. I don’t know if that would have been the best thing for me right now. ;o)
Anyone who has access to a decent magazine shop there is a big article on the Underground Project in the July / Aug issue of Tokomo. Very fittingly it is the “do it yourself” issue.  Most of you will recognize some faces.

“VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
The “Monster” only pretends to sleep anyway…..(not to be negative)

-Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.

Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd..cosmic cookie
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:46:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cosmic Cookie

I am in the Light… and of the Light
I am the Light of the Christ.
I stand protected in my Light
my Aura is sealed… and I am Beautiful.
My Thoughts are all Powerful
and therefore… I can heal myself.
My Body is healing and I grow in Strength and Power.
I am Healthy… I am Good
and I behave just like I should.
I am in the Light… and of the Light.
I am the Awakened Christ.

THE FATHER AND I ARE ONE AND THE SAME

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:40:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The “Monster” only pretends to sleep anyway…..(not to be negative)

-Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:24 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) a couple photos
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:39:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston u freak!! u both look good….cool photos..u have a beautiful woman
Now for the rest of u…WTF…..how come nobody pposting their pics….its so cool to put a face to a post….
ah whatever better shut up before sombody else complains
Love and laughter ahh laughter

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:26:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Torodol is Ketorolac. Tramodol is Ultram. Torodol is safe and non narcotic like. It can be rough on the stomach and is limited to 5 days continuous usage.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:24:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ultram is contraindicated for those who have had opiate addiction. It can re-awake the “Monster”.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:23:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Stadol is addictive.

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:03:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, I wish it was true.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in
1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone
up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a
pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you
apply to a thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. –
Musician
, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}  – So who does
pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type
…………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet”
From: “Preston Peet”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only  imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times  mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”

To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars  being so close
in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close  in
August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!  This month and next,
Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
will
appear 25.11 arc  seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston  Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 9:02:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1
day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug
laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up
and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a
pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know
who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you
apply to a thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician
, Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I
was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and
actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier
shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil
unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri
Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round
of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}  – So who does
pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type
…………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a
Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off !
……….sjonny.
From: “Preston Peet”
From: “Preston Peet”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not
more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars
being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a
telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that
article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter
through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon
with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its
brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only  imagine
how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the
mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature.
Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the
telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy
with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times  mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”

To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old
email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!!
Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars  being so close
in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened
already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before
to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait.
And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so
buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a
star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close  in
August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about
how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history?
Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so
I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give
full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever
going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this
rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in
for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!  This month and next,
Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only
be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last
5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens
again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to
within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the
brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and
will
appear 25.11 arc  seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars
will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east
at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August
when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach
its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to
see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston  Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Stian Bjontegaard <bjonte@broadpark.no>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I would like to be romoved from this list.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 6:55:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 6:53:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyy Welcome Sjonny GEee!!
Oops spelling is off tonight, been murdering monsters in hell whilst playing Doom (plutonia) still a bit shakey from killing one of the big buggers…
Well, how I manage to annoy the hell out of this list (*or at least that’s what I’d like to think I do…*) is to be govt funded.  I’m a General (I generally do anything it takes to survive…) and until they stop bleeding small businesses and others alive I at this unqualified stage cannot make enough working!! Sad? Yes indeedy I love working. But I also like partial sanity and my daughter……
Anywayyyy that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!!!  (and many thanks for the taxes…..I do work sometimes so I pretty much pay my own way, give or take a few bucks lol)
As for Preston n V……. I;m not sure whose boots I wanna nick off with!!!!  Great pic I love the wedding card idea!!!  It’s the kind of thing that would definitely set my mother off on a long series of Conniption Fits.
Ok, back to killing things…..muhahahahaha
Koiky

From: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.
>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
>
>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not 
>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars 
>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a 
>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that 
>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter 
>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon 
>with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its 
>brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine 
>how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the 
>mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. 
>Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the 
>telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy 
>with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out 
>Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” 
><captkirk@free.net.nz>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in 
>August?
>
>
>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old 
>>email
>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! 
>>Lol
>>Damn…
>>Oh well.
>>Kirk
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>in August?
>>
>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened 
>>already? I
>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before 
>>to see
>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. 
>>And they
>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so 
>>buggered if I
>>know Preston!!!
>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a 
>>star gazer
>>by nature.
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in 
>>August?
>>
>>Hi all,
>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about 
>>how Mars
>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? 
>>Anyone
>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so 
>>I’ve no
>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give 
>>full
>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever 
>>going
>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this 
>>rock of a
>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in 
>>for a
>>fly-by):
>>
>>>
>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, 
>>Earth
>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The 
>>next
>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only 
>>be
>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 
>>5,000
>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens 
>>again.
>>
>>
>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to 
>>within
>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the 
>>brightest
>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and 
>>will
>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
>>
>>
>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars 
>>will be
>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east 
>>at
>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August 
>>when
>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach 
>>its
>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to 
>>see
>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, 
>>mark
>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow 
>>progressively
>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>><
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston Peet
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>>often
>>mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>>Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>>[%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
>  
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] So off topic it’s a colourless gas.
Date: June 22, 2005 at 6:26:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m curious how people find the time to write 12+ posts to this list in 1 day alone, happily/unhappily contemplating the joys and woes of a drug laden/free life.  It’s all I can do when I get home from work to phone up and cancel band rehearsal for the 2nd time this week , I’m not having a pop at anyone here nor am I being argumentative , I’d just love to know who your sponsor is and does he increase the rate the more attitude you apply to a thread ? -……….. and can I get a cut.
The list seems as a good a place as any to update my cv. – Musician , Dance Percussion Therapist :Qualified -( somebody once told me I was good), Activist(I ripped my stomach open at work last year and actively don’t wish to do it again)  – Adventurer(An indian soldier shot me in the arse in Calcutta Dec.’92 during ‘massive civil unrest'{In 1992, Hindu hardliners destroyed the 16th century Babri Masjid mosque that had been built on that site, setting off a round of religious violence in which 3,000 people died.}  – So who does pay you guys to stay home all day and strap yourselves in to type …………Can I get a contract ? By the way I love a man in a Good dress ,but you need a good nose to really carry it off ! ……….sjonny.
>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
>Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:39:45 -0400
>
>to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not 
>more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars 
>being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a 
>telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that 
>article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter 
>through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon 
>with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its 
>brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine 
>how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the 
>mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. 
>Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the 
>telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy 
>with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out 
>Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” 
><captkirk@free.net.nz>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in 
>August?
>
>
>>Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old 
>>email
>>somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! 
>>Lol
>>Damn…
>>Oh well.
>>Kirk
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close 
>>in August?
>>
>>Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened 
>>already? I
>>remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before 
>>to see
>>Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. 
>>And they
>>said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so 
>>buggered if I
>>know Preston!!!
>>Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a 
>>star gazer
>>by nature.
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
>>To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in 
>>August?
>>
>>Hi all,
>>    Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about 
>>how Mars
>>is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? 
>>Anyone
>>know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so 
>>I’ve no
>>source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give 
>>full
>>credit if I did know, but I don’t.
>>Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever 
>>going
>>around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this 
>>rock of a
>>planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in 
>>for a
>>fly-by):
>>
>>>
>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, 
>>Earth
>>is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
>>closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The 
>>next
>>time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
>>gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only 
>>be
>>certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 
>>5,000
>>years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens 
>>again.
>>
>>
>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to 
>>within
>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the 
>>brightest
>>object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and 
>>will
>>appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification
>>
>>
>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars 
>>will be
>>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east 
>>at
>>10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August 
>>when
>>the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach 
>>its
>>highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to 
>>see
>>something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, 
>>mark
>>your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow 
>>progressively
>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>><
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston Peet
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is 
>>often
>>mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient 
>>Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:21:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I for one refuse to get excited over this Mars thing.  Cos ya know
what???  If I miss this one, I’m just gonna wait another TWO YEARS (or
several lifetimes, according to some scientists….) to see the next time
Mars gets, well, even closer??? Hah!!
In a Huff
Kirk xx

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 5:40 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not more than
a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars being closer to the
Earth, what do we find but someone who has a telescope, set at that same 75
magnification mentioned in that article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could
plainly see Jupiter through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size

of the moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of
its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine how
gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the mountain,
around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. Anyway, there was
Jupiter, and we both got to look through the telescope. I got to tell
everyone standing there, including the guy with the telescope, about the
whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in
August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star
gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:08:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 21 June 2005 22:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

Are you a (not so)closet masochist, with sadistic tendancies?  I was a
dominatrix for a while.  I might know someone you could see on your
side of the pond…
love
tink

Hey Tink,

It’s not about beating yourself up. With Encounter you use feedback followed
by emotional release – you scream it out. Then you hug. It’s great. So
liberating. Breaking through the mind’s constant need to try and
self-define, to self-limit, to go beyond that. Encounter therapy is the
modern Way of the Warrior – to totally receive all the judgments of others
and go through all of that and beyond, to dare to put out all your judgments
about others face-to-face and go beyond that. It’s total Zen. Not for the
faint hearted, perhaps.

Nick

On 6/21/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 June 2005 15:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my
asking them to
“go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about
talking that
particular person into being with you, you’re looking for
information for
your next encounter, right?

Hi Preston,

Yes, that’s right. Fair enough, someone isn’t turned on to you.
But if you
can get meaningful feedback, you can find out if you want to do
something
about it. Guys who get rejected often come to think you have to
be Orlando
Bloom or something to go out with a pretty women. It’s
bullshit, mostly they
just need to change their act a bit. I’ve done encounter groups
where part
of it you get to sit in front of all the women in the group and
listen to
what they think of you for 5 minutes. It’s totally gruelling, or can be.
But, on a practical level, you do get to find out just what is
actually in
the way of you scoring. And, from that position, you can decide
if you want
to change something.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:02:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 June 2005 05:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

If you stick with this approach you’ll end up having
to carry stuff to fight them off with!

I must ask… what stuff do you carry?

Women are fascinating things. You can learn all sorts of
stuff about yourself by really chasing after your No. 1!

What means “No. 1”?

The one you fancy the most, who is usually also the one you’re most scared
to ask. Feel the fear and do it anyway.

Nick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine related research article
Date: June 22, 2005 at 4:02:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Came across this newish study in my research. Its not listed on the Ibogaine Dossier site.

“Glial Cell Line-Derived Neurotrophic Factor Mediates the Desirable Actions of the Anti-Addiction Drug Ibogaine against Alcohol Consumption”
The Journal of Neuroscience, January 19, 2005

Dao-Yao He,1 * Nancy N. H. McGough,1 * Ajay Ravindranathan,1 Jerome Jeanblanc,1 Marian L. Logrip,1,3 Khanhky Phamluong,1 Patricia H. Janak,1,2,3 and Dorit Ron1,2,3

1Ernest Gallo Research Center, 2Department of Neurology, 3Neuroscience Graduate Program, University of California, San Francisco, Emeryville, California 94608
http://www.egcrc.org/

Alcohol addiction manifests as uncontrolled drinking despite negative consequences. Few medications are available to treat the disorder. Anecdotal reports suggest that ibogaine, a natural alkaloid, reverses behaviors associated with addiction including alcoholism; however, because of side effects, ibogaine is not used clinically. In this study, we first characterized the actions of ibogaine on ethanol self-administration in rodents. Ibogaine decreased ethanol intake by rats in two-bottle choice and operant self-administration paradigms. Ibogaine also reduced operant self-administration of ethanol in a relapse model. Next, we identified a molecular mechanism that mediates the desirable activities of ibogaine on ethanol intake. Microinjection of ibogaine into the ventral tegmental area (VTA), but not the substantia nigra, reduced self-administration of ethanol, and systemic administration of ibogaine increased the expression of glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor (GDNF) in a midbrain region that includes the VTA. In dopaminergic neuron-like SHSY5Y cells, ibogaine treatment upregulated the GDNF pathway as indicated by increases in phosphorylation of the GDNF receptor, Ret, and the downstream kinase, ERK1 (extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1). Finally, the ibogaine-mediated decrease in ethanol self-administration was mimicked by intra-VTA microinjection of GDNF and was reduced by intra-VTA delivery of anti-GDNF neutralizing antibodies. Together, these results suggest that GDNF in the VTA mediates the action of ibogaine on ethanol consumption. These findings highlight the importance of GDNF as a new target for drug development for alcoholism that may mimic the effect of ibogaine against alcohol consumption but avoid the negative side effects.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: June 22, 2005 at 1:39:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

to make this really bizarreo, as V and I were returning home, not more than a couple hours, three at most after writing about Mars being closer to the Earth, what do we find but someone who has a telescope, set at that same 75 magnification mentioned in that article, but pointed at Jupiter. We could plainly see Jupiter through the telescope, very small, a quarter of the size of the moon with our naked eye, maybe even a wee bit smaller, and four of its brightest moons, from Ave. A in LES, Manhattan. I can only imagine how gorgeous the view must be out West somewhere, or upstate in the mountain, around V’s uncle’s cabin or something of that nature. Anyway, there was Jupiter, and we both got to look through the telescope. I got to tell everyone standing there, including the guy with the telescope, about the whole Mars thing.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 22, 2005 at 12:42:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all
you want, but it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing
to any woman, not sexually.

An anthropological study once showed that in some primitive
tribe(s) the men who had killed in battle were more likely to have
women. I think it is not the violence per se, but the willingness
to brave getting in someone’s face with your desires that appeals
to women, and that bravery is most obvious in assholes, like the
appeal of popularity is more obvious in rock stars. If you look
beyond the comic-book obvious cases, there are lots of nice guys
who wind up with good partners. They just aren’t too nice to tell a
woman what they want.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 22, 2005 at 12:24:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you stick with this approach you’ll end up having
to carry stuff to fight them off with!

I must ask… what stuff do you carry?

Women are fascinating things. You can learn all sorts of
stuff about yourself by really chasing after your No. 1!

What means “No. 1”?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) a couple photos
Date: June 21, 2005 at 11:53:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I apologize all, but these photos are so cool (to me anyway) that I wanted to share. I was so freakin miserable feeling this weekend, but a week ago Friday V did some modeling for a friend’s wedding clothes and dresses, wearing the most beautiful dress of all which looks fantastic on her, which you can see in these two photos, one of her on her phone at the bar where the show was held and the poolshooting party was held afterwards and one of us together. Not only is V ultra-freakin’ hot- TigerRider, I imagine you’ll like her boots if your email illustrations are any indication, as her heels are as high as mine in the kiss/wedding shot of us together- but V wants to turn that shot of us kissing into a photo to send to all her family saying something like, “Ha Ha, Sorry, but you MISSED the WEDDING!” They just can’t understand how we’ve been together so long and yet there’s still no discussion about kids nor marriage. So a card like that would be pretty funny to make and better, to actually go ahead and send out. Her mom would have a heart attack though, so it might not be a great idea, but the wedding presents might make it worthwhile.

Anyway, this is so totally off topic, but I moderate the DrugWar list, so I’m giving myself permission to post off topic (with a big OT in the subject heading) and I’m just sharing with the ibo folk, sorta to let you all know I feel a little bit better than I was talking about this weekend. Thanks by the way for bearing with my whining and bitching.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Wikipedia: Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972
Date: June 21, 2005 at 11:26:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_on_the_Campaign_Trail_1972

“Critique of Journalism

As much as it is about the candidates and their various political processes, the book is equally a critical look at the mainstream media coverage of the campaigns and politics. Criticizing the various pundits and political ‘experts’, Thompson rages against the often incestuous relationships between politicians and those who write about them. The most famous example of this being Muskie’s supposed addiction to the Brazilian drug Ibogaine, and the well-known fact of Eagleton’s electroshock therapy for depression which was later broken through the press as a scandal of their own making.”

WTF??

came across the above while looking up Ibogaine in the Wikipedia.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers : help i’m on the abyss
Date: June 21, 2005 at 8:30:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I stand here with my feet on the edge and I can see the rocks falling when I wiggle my toes. What the fuck is a po boy to do? I want to rock, I JUST DON’T HOW WITHOUT GITTING IN TROUBLE. Somebody help me. I’m so fried. Here I am without a habit and I’m not used to it. I’m so used to feeding the demon that I feel left out at this point. NOW WHAT. I feel so ………………………I can’t explain it.  Howard if you read this I want you to know that I owe you my life. You didn’t do a thing other than show the world about Ibogaine. I so much respect you for that. Thank you for not shutting up. If it were’nt for you I would still be playing that game with the doctors. You know what I’m talking about. I just want to write a song about it and it won’t complete itself in my head. I can hear it but I’m not sure what key it’s in. I think it could be thechno but I I’m not sure. You are the father I been lookinf for. I’ll never forget talking to you. You and your wife might be the kindest people I ever came across. Please kiss her on the cheek for me. So here I go again, I’m searching and don’t know what I’m looking for.        Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:58:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

>200mg of ibo can wobble
>someone (depending on them and the day), I know someone who did a tester
>(100mg) and landed on her ass, but unless you are going to feed yourself
>a couple hundred mg’s of ibo continuously it isn’t going to cut the
withdrawals
>enough. <

Yeah Brett,
I’ve kinda figured out already that unless I could obtain it regularly, one small booster isn’t going to do much in the end- but it did have a slightly noticeable aftereffect, so I’m appreciative none-the-less.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

> Hi Brett,
>
> I am attaching a pdf file on a very interesting paper that was recently
> published, “An Opiate Cocktail that Reduces Morphine Tolerance and > Dependence. I
> hope it go through to the list. In any case you should get it as I coped > it to
> your email as well. It was quite surprising in that the researchers found
> low dose methadone actually reduces morphine tolerance. We are not > discussing
> cross tolerance issues but, actual reduction of tolerance by a process > known as
> endocytosis. It is a bit complex but, you can show it to your doctor re
> requests for methadone. A lot of pain management doctors are rxing > methadone.
> What your doctor’s problem is i don’t know but, it is his problem and not > the
> DEA’s.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Howard
>
> In a message dated 6/20/05 10:59:09 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:
>
>>”Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>>than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
>>I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>>mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>>point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative”
>
>>Not really. Load up on tylenol wll help. I use narcotics daily for pain
>>(TMJ and cluster headaches mostly),. I just had a tooth crack and abscess,
>>started a root canal (didn’t know it was cracked) and at 29,000 feet (low
>>cabin pressure) after the antibiotics wore off it blew up again – man that
>>hurt!. THANKFULLY I am loaded to the gills with narcotics and have
something
>>called Actiq, trans-mucosal fentanyl citrate (dope in lolly-pop form
> basically).
>>But what I did was put the Actiq lolly-pop right on the gum to absorb a
>>little narcotic in the place of the pain – IT WORKED WONDERULLY, far
better
>>than buiilding up a blood level with narcotics – which beleive me I took
>>plenty.. I nursed an Actiq for 3 days just for the tooth, some seconds
>>at a time 10, 20, 50 seconds and it lasts over an hour – you need lto use
>>it longer as the lolly-pop gets smaller. Normally you suck one of those
>>”suckers” up in about 15-20 minutes for systemic effect (about 50% in the
>>first 3 minutes), I don’t use
>>
>> it that way. I doubt anyone will give you one Actiq and it would take
>>control (of you likely) if you suck on the WHOLE thing, it is like half
>>a dozen bags of dope, itchies and all.
>>
>>
>>
>>I generally take my narcotics a little at a time, very measured, just up
>>to the level required for the pain and that’s it.. If you are in PAIN you
>>might try 1/2 a pill (ie 1/2 perc) and use the medication more often if
>>necessary, not wait 6 hours between pills and clock watching.. Avoid
SPIKING
>>blood levels of drugs, be patient with the pain and don’t stomp on it
>>(ie take 2). You may also try a topical product like Ambesol (sp?) or oil
>>of cloves (old remedy, still used) to deaden the pain along with tylenol
>>and maybe ibuprofen. It is better to alternate the 2 if pain/fever is >>severe
>>- ie tylenol then 3 hours later ibuprofen, 3 hours later tylenol…If
>>you do take narcotics, if/once you start to feel the drug STOP, you have
>>had enough, typically you won’t get much more pain relief by more
medication
>>once you feel the drug, What can happen is more opiates can actually stop
>>(flaten out) easing the pain and actually make it increase, and of course
>>1/2 the bottle will start sounding
>>
>> like a good idea… Warm salt water mouthwash may also help.
>>
>>
>>
>>Preston, Lighten up on yourself. You are a pain patient just like I am,
>>pain meds and habituation are part of the deal.. 200mg of ibo can wobble
>>someone (depending on them and the day), I know someone who did a tester
>>(100mg) and landed on her ass, but unless you are going to feed yourself
>>a couple hundred mg’s of ibo continuously it isn’t going to cut the
> withdrawals
>>enough. I also suggest staying away from “the dark side” or trying to
>>kill more pain than the medication is going to do *(without making it
> better…)
>>- meaning don’t push it, don’t SPIKE it, don’t wait till you are in too
>>much pain (I do sometimes).. It sucks, it is way too much pain to live
>>with without narcotics, it just can’t be done successully when someone
>>is in the kind of pain ***WE*** are in. It ain’t easy, I had to give up
>>being an “addict”… perfectly, no, mostly perfectly, yes or I couldn’t
>>trust myself with the meds I use (dilaudid, oxycodone, valium, SOMA,
Fentanyl
>>lolly-pops, not duragesic one is
>>
>> highly abusable, the other minimally so that Duragesic is often used for
>>treating Addicts in pain – a 600mcg Actiq unloads the entire dose in 15-20
>>minutes, a 25mgc Duragesic patch unloads the same amount of Fentanyl
(600mcg
>>total) over 24 hours. It took 2 years with this doc, he initially FLIPPED
>>when I mentioned Dilaudid. It is a case of you are damed if you do, damed
>>if you don’t. A FLAG for addiction is when someone requests a specific
>>medication, it took me 1.5 years before I mentioned Dilaudid .
Unfortunately
>>a FLAG for what works is also telling the doctor what kind of medication
>>works… and I could swear that (in the beginning) BIG BROTHER had a
camera
>>in the room, I wanted to switch from 20mg oxycontin twice a day to 10mg
>>4 times a day (medically nothing wrong with that) but DOCTORS FLIP OUT
>>(one pharmacist in the area won’t even fill a script unlless it is Q12H,
>>even though the docs say some people use every 8 hours), Sooo, I came up
>>with an allergy to the Pink Dye in
>>
>> the 20mg pills. Pretty sad/sick to have to do that and not be able to
>>talk to the doctor – he knows very well what I am doing, but can’t write
>>a prescription or talk about it that way. He also couldn’t write for
Dolphine
>>(would cost me $20 a month!) because flags go off at the DEA that he might
>>be treating addicts, as he put it he is “not willing to fight that
battle”
>>where the DEA comes in and crawls up his ass going over his records.
>>
>>
>>
>>Also, I started Palladone XL, 12mg extended release hydromorphone
(dilaudid),
>>24 hour capsules they only last me 18-20 hours and I need to fill in with
>>some Dilaudid till my next pill. That is typical for me to metabolize >>things
>>faster than most folks. It is a good med, low side effects (particularly
>>low sexual side effects for an opiate), expensive though, it is new. Plus
>>percocet, dilaudid, Actiq, valium, SOMA (in relatively small amounts and
>>in combinations), NSAIDS, herbs, smokables, breathing exercises… Just
>>keep me away from those non-addictive medications, that will really do
>>serious damage, horrible meds (ie topamax, lamictil, gabapentin,
depakote…)
>>and people who think taking drugs means life-long addiction, even medical
>>professionals who should (but don’t) know better because their CLINICAL
>>GUIDELINES and studies say otherwise.
>>
>>
>>
>>Brett.
>

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>
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Approaching Mars
Date: June 21, 2005 at 7:54:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no search, I’m on the mailing list.  GEEEEEEEKFREAKS UNITE!!!!!!
Love ya
tink

On 6/21/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
Well slap me upside the head with a wet Kipper, I wish these space cadets
would make up their minds!!!!  And here we got all excited in 2003 because
never again in this lifetime would anyone ever see Mars this damn close to
the earth.  Well, here we are two years later and OMG what a bloody fast
lifetime that was geeeee are we talking the lifetime of an earthworm or
what???? Lmao
Stoopid space people…..
Thanks Tinkers!!! Your search was better n my searching…..
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:43 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Approaching Mars

here you are Preston…straight outta the NASA peoples mouths :]
Just in time for my birthday!!
Love to you
tink

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: May 27, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Approaching Mars
To: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>

NASA Science News for May 27, 2005

Earth and Mars will have a breathtaking close encounter in October
2005. Can’t wait? Don’t. You can see the red planet now.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/27may_approachingmars.htm?list161661

The Science@NASA Podcast feed is available at
http://science.nasa.gov/podcast.xml.

You are currently subscribed to snglist as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

This is a free service.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://lyris.msfc.nasa.gov/u?id=161661J&n=T&l=snglist
or send a blank email to leave-snglist-161661J@lyris.msfc.nasa.gov

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Approaching Mars
Date: June 21, 2005 at 7:08:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well slap me upside the head with a wet Kipper, I wish these space cadets
would make up their minds!!!!  And here we got all excited in 2003 because
never again in this lifetime would anyone ever see Mars this damn close to
the earth.  Well, here we are two years later and OMG what a bloody fast
lifetime that was geeeee are we talking the lifetime of an earthworm or
what???? Lmao
Stoopid space people…..
Thanks Tinkers!!! Your search was better n my searching…..
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:43 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Approaching Mars

here you are Preston…straight outta the NASA peoples mouths :]
Just in time for my birthday!!
Love to you
tink

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: May 27, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Approaching Mars
To: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>

NASA Science News for May 27, 2005

Earth and Mars will have a breathtaking close encounter in October
2005. Can’t wait? Don’t. You can see the red planet now.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/27may_approachingmars.htm?list161661

The Science@NASA Podcast feed is available at
http://science.nasa.gov/podcast.xml.

You are currently subscribed to snglist as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

This is a free service.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://lyris.msfc.nasa.gov/u?id=161661J&n=T&l=snglist
or send a blank email to leave-snglist-161661J@lyris.msfc.nasa.gov

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 21, 2005 at 6:58:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

200mg of ibo can wobble
someone (depending on them and the day), I know someone who did a tester
(100mg) and landed on her ass, but unless you are going to feed yourself
a couple hundred mg’s of ibo continuously it isn’t going to cut the
withdrawals
enough. <

Yeah Brett,
I’ve kinda figured out already that unless I could obtain it regularly, one small booster isn’t going to do much in the end- but it did have a slightly noticeable aftereffect, so I’m appreciative none-the-less.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers

Hi Brett,

I am attaching a pdf file on a very interesting paper that was recently
published, “An Opiate Cocktail that Reduces Morphine Tolerance and Dependence.  I
hope it go through to the list.  In any case you should get it as I coped it to
your email as well.  It was quite surprising in that the researchers found
low dose methadone actually reduces morphine tolerance. We are not discussing
cross tolerance issues but, actual reduction of tolerance by a process known as
endocytosis.  It is a bit complex but, you can show it to your doctor re
requests for methadone.  A lot of pain management doctors are rxing methadone.
What your doctor’s problem is i don’t know but, it is his problem and not the
DEA’s.

Best regards,

Howard

In a message dated 6/20/05 10:59:09 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

“Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
than torodol? Howard perhaps?

I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative”

Not really. Load up on tylenol wll help. I use narcotics daily for pain
(TMJ and cluster headaches mostly),. I just had a tooth crack and abscess,
started a root canal (didn’t know it was cracked) and at 29,000 feet (low
cabin pressure) after the antibiotics wore off it blew up again – man that
hurt!. THANKFULLY I am loaded to the gills with narcotics and have something
called Actiq, trans-mucosal fentanyl citrate (dope in lolly-pop form
basically).
But what I did was put the Actiq lolly-pop right on the gum to absorb a
little narcotic in the place of the pain – IT WORKED WONDERULLY,  far better
than buiilding up a blood level with narcotics – which beleive me I took
plenty.. I nursed an Actiq for 3 days just for the tooth, some seconds
at a time 10, 20, 50 seconds and it lasts over an hour – you need lto use
it longer as the lolly-pop gets smaller. Normally you suck one of those
“suckers” up in about 15-20 minutes for systemic effect (about 50% in the
first 3 minutes), I don’t use

it that way. I doubt anyone will give you one Actiq and it would take
control (of you likely) if you suck on the WHOLE  thing, it is like half
a dozen bags of dope, itchies and all.

I generally take my narcotics a little at a time, very measured, just up
to the level required for the pain and that’s it.. If you are in PAIN you
might try 1/2 a pill (ie 1/2 perc) and use the medication more often if
necessary, not wait 6 hours between pills and clock watching.. Avoid SPIKING
blood levels of drugs,  be patient with the pain and don’t stomp on it
(ie take 2). You may also try a topical product like Ambesol (sp?) or oil
of cloves (old remedy, still used) to deaden the pain along with tylenol
and maybe ibuprofen. It is better to alternate the 2 if pain/fever is severe
– ie tylenol then 3 hours later ibuprofen,  3 hours later tylenol…If
you do take narcotics, if/once you start to feel the drug STOP, you have
had enough, typically you won’t get much more pain relief by more medication
once you feel the drug, What can happen is more opiates can actually stop
(flaten out) easing the pain and actually make it increase, and of course
1/2 the bottle will start sounding

like a good idea… Warm salt water mouthwash may also help.

Preston, Lighten up on yourself. You are a pain patient just like I am,
pain meds and habituation are part of the deal.. 200mg of ibo can wobble
someone (depending on them and the day), I know someone who did a tester
(100mg) and landed on her ass, but unless you are going to feed yourself
a couple hundred mg’s of ibo continuously it isn’t going to cut the
withdrawals
enough.  I also suggest staying away from “the dark side” or trying to
kill more pain than the medication is going to do *(without making it
better…)
– meaning don’t push it, don’t SPIKE it, don’t wait till you are in too
much pain (I do sometimes).. It sucks,  it is way too much pain to live
with without narcotics, it just can’t be done successully when someone
is in the kind of pain ***WE*** are in. It ain’t easy, I had to give up
being an “addict”… perfectly, no, mostly perfectly, yes or I couldn’t
trust myself with the meds I use (dilaudid, oxycodone, valium, SOMA, Fentanyl
lolly-pops, not duragesic one is

highly abusable, the other minimally so that Duragesic is often used for
treating Addicts in pain – a 600mcg Actiq unloads the entire dose in 15-20
minutes, a 25mgc Duragesic patch unloads the same amount of Fentanyl (600mcg
total) over 24 hours. It took 2 years with this doc, he initially FLIPPED
when I mentioned Dilaudid. It is a case of you are damed if you do, damed
if you don’t. A FLAG for addiction is when someone requests a specific
medication, it took me 1.5 years before I mentioned Dilaudid . Unfortunately
a FLAG for what works is also telling the doctor what kind of medication
works… and I could swear that (in the beginning) BIG BROTHER had a camera
in the room,  I wanted to switch from 20mg oxycontin twice a day to 10mg
4 times a day (medically nothing wrong with that) but DOCTORS FLIP OUT
(one pharmacist in the area won’t even fill a script unlless it is Q12H,
even though the docs say some people use every 8 hours), Sooo, I came up
with an allergy to the Pink Dye in

the 20mg pills. Pretty sad/sick to have to do that and not be able to
talk to the doctor – he knows very well what I am doing, but can’t write
a prescription or talk about it that way. He also couldn’t write for Dolphine
(would cost me $20 a month!) because flags go off at the DEA that he might
be treating addicts, as he put it  he is “not willing to fight that battle”
where the DEA comes in and crawls up his ass going over his records.

Also, I started Palladone XL, 12mg extended release hydromorphone (dilaudid),
24 hour capsules they only last me 18-20 hours and I need to fill in with
some Dilaudid till my next pill. That is typical for me to metabolize things
faster than most folks. It is a good med, low side effects (particularly
low sexual side effects for an opiate), expensive though, it is new. Plus
percocet, dilaudid, Actiq, valium, SOMA (in relatively small amounts and
in combinations), NSAIDS, herbs, smokables, breathing exercises…  Just
keep me away from those non-addictive medications, that will really do
serious damage, horrible meds (ie topamax, lamictil, gabapentin, depakote…)
and people who think taking drugs means life-long addiction, even medical
professionals who should (but don’t) know better because their CLINICAL
GUIDELINES and studies say otherwise.

Brett.

——————————————————————————–

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Approaching Mars
Date: June 21, 2005 at 6:42:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

here you are Preston…straight outta the NASA peoples mouths :]
Just in time for my birthday!!
Love to you
tink

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: May 27, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Approaching Mars
To: NASA Science News <snglist@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov>

NASA Science News for May 27, 2005

Earth and Mars will have a breathtaking close encounter in October
2005. Can’t wait? Don’t. You can see the red planet now.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/27may_approachingmars.htm?list161661

The Science@NASA Podcast feed is available at
http://science.nasa.gov/podcast.xml.

You are currently subscribed to snglist as: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com.

This is a free service.

To unsubscribe click here:
http://lyris.msfc.nasa.gov/u?id=161661J&n=T&l=snglist
or send a blank email to leave-snglist-161661J@lyris.msfc.nasa.gov

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (so very OT!)Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 21, 2005 at 6:33:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess
some non chalant chit chat about how damn ugly you are and how you’re NOT
orlando bloom or brad pitt so just get the hell away from me before I
PUKE…..<

This thread if so off topic I’m impressed, but want to say that this is what I was pretty much picturing Nick when you wrote that you would ask “why?” No offense meant at all, just picturing the reaction of most women I’ve ever met anywhere in public situations of any sort whatsoever to someone responding to their “no” of whatever sort with a “why?”
;-))
But it gave me a good laugh so thanks for the mental pictures.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

Heh, yeh so long as you don’t drop to the ground, grab her by the legs and
scream “but whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy what’s wrongggggg with
meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee dammit woman whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????” I guess
some non chalant chit chat about how damn ugly you are and how you’re NOT
orlando bloom or brad pitt so just get the hell away from me before I
PUKE…..
Ok I’m juss kidding now…………  I don’t relate to this whole thing…
I’ve never been quite “normal” so I don’t git it!!!
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 3:41 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 June 2005 15:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

>If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my
asking them to
“go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about talking that
particular person into being with you, you’re looking for information for
your next encounter, right?

Hi Preston,

Yes, that’s right. Fair enough, someone isn’t turned on to you. But if you
can get meaningful feedback, you can find out if you want to do something
about it. Guys who get rejected often come to think you have to be Orlando
Bloom or something to go out with a pretty women. It’s bullshit, mostly they
just need to change their act a bit. I’ve done encounter groups where part
of it you get to sit in front of all the women in the group and listen to
what they think of you for 5 minutes. It’s totally gruelling, or can be.
But, on a practical level, you do get to find out just what is actually in
the way of you scoring. And, from that position, you can decide if you want
to change something.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: June 21, 2005 at 6:22:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just did a search, yes it happened already in 2003.  Must be a old email
somebody didn’t see the year or something, so got alllll excited!! Lol
Damn…
Oh well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: June 21, 2005 at 6:15:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes I also got sent the same email, but I thought this happened already? I
remember going up to observatory, either last winter, or one before to see
Mars but was packed out with people and too bloody cold to wait. And they
said then this wouldn’t be seen again by people alive now so buggered if I
know Preston!!!
Would be cool though, I l ike when planets do cool stuff!!  I’m a star gazer
by nature.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: Newsroom-L; ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how Mars
is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? Anyone
know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve no
source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full
credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going
around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of a
planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a
fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot- anyone know about Mars being so close in August?
Date: June 21, 2005 at 6:07:00 PM EDT
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Anyone else heard the following tidbit of science news, about how Mars is coming in on its closest approach to Earth in recorded history? Anyone know if this is true? It was sent me in an email by an in-law, so I’ve no source link or URL, and have no idea who wrote this. I would give full credit if I did know, but I don’t.
Anyway, here’s the note (and could this explain all the war fever going around? Of course, there’s always war fever going around on this rock of a planet, so I guess I’m grasping at straws blaming Mars dropping in for a fly-by):

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth
is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the
closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next
time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter’s
gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000
years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.

The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will
appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification

Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at
10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.  By the end of August when
the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its
highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That’s pretty convenient to see
something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark
your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
brighter and brighter throughout the month.
<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share
Date: June 21, 2005 at 5:53:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can pat my tummy and rub my head, or is it rub your head and pat
your tummy…I can also chew gum, walk, and read a book without
hitting many phone poles…
Breathing and thinking is a bit much at this point…
luv tink

On 6/21/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
Well, geez and far out!! I have ENOUGH trouble getting myself dressed in the
mornings without complicating matters with this stuff!!!! Lol
(Goes to drink coffee, pours it in her eye…….OUCH)
Krik

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 1:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share

Or simply try to move your right hand in a counter-clockwise motion. I just
saw this a couple weeks ago, from V’s mom, but there wasn’t a “6” involved
anywhere, just two circlular motions, foot and hand.
I drove myself nuts trying to do it when I first saw it.

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share

From Joycelyn Woods, President, NAMA

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:45:36 PM, nama.jw@verizon.net writes:

You know I have a degree in neuroscience and there are a lot of little
tricks that you can fool your brain with. It is nearly impossible to move
your foot and hand of the same side in opposite circles.

It will make you crazy because you can’t do it.

Here is the exercise:

While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and
make clockwise circles. Now, while doing this, draw the number “6”
in the air with your right hand.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 21, 2005 at 5:50:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are you a (not so)closet masochist, with sadistic tendancies?  I was a
dominatrix for a while.  I might know someone you could see on your
side of the pond…
love
tink

On 6/21/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 June 2005 15:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my
asking them to
“go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about talking that
particular person into being with you, you’re looking for information for
your next encounter, right?

Hi Preston,

Yes, that’s right. Fair enough, someone isn’t turned on to you. But if you
can get meaningful feedback, you can find out if you want to do something
about it. Guys who get rejected often come to think you have to be Orlando
Bloom or something to go out with a pretty women. It’s bullshit, mostly they
just need to change their act a bit. I’ve done encounter groups where part
of it you get to sit in front of all the women in the group and listen to
what they think of you for 5 minutes. It’s totally gruelling, or can be.
But, on a practical level, you do get to find out just what is actually in
the way of you scoring. And, from that position, you can decide if you want
to change something.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues
Date: June 21, 2005 at 5:48:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love you, Kirkie!!!!
tinkerswill

On 6/21/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
I’ll take this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A few centuries back, the Fruity Jube makers released some Jubes into the
wild and let them breed unchallenged and uninterrupted. The sugary jubes are
considered “wild”, now, it used to be that they were full of additives and
artificial crap which caused hyperactivity, but now they’re all natural so
they promote sleep instead.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 8:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues

What on this blue planet is Wild Jujube extract??
love
tink

On 6/21/05, fire3456@aol.com <fire3456@aol.com> wrote:

Just ran across this.  Wild Jujube Extract   Its supposed to promote
relaxation and sleep.

I haven’t tried it yet.  So take it for what its worth.  Just something
else
that “may” help.  I’m going to order some and try it.  (As soon as I find
a
reputable source).

If anyone has tried this….let us know how it worked.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues
Date: June 21, 2005 at 5:36:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll take this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A few centuries back, the Fruity Jube makers released some Jubes into the
wild and let them breed unchallenged and uninterrupted. The sugary jubes are
considered “wild”, now, it used to be that they were full of additives and
artificial crap which caused hyperactivity, but now they’re all natural so
they promote sleep instead.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 8:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues

What on this blue planet is Wild Jujube extract??
love
tink

On 6/21/05, fire3456@aol.com <fire3456@aol.com> wrote:

Just ran across this.  Wild Jujube Extract   Its supposed to promote
relaxation and sleep.

I haven’t tried it yet.  So take it for what its worth.  Just something
else
that “may” help.  I’m going to order some and try it.  (As soon as I find
a
reputable source).

If anyone has tried this….let us know how it worked.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 21, 2005 at 5:33:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, yeh so long as you don’t drop to the ground, grab her by the legs and
scream “but whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy what’s wrongggggg with
meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee dammit woman whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????” I guess
some non chalant chit chat about how damn ugly you are and how you’re NOT
orlando bloom or brad pitt so just get the hell away from me before I
PUKE…..
Ok I’m juss kidding now…………  I don’t relate to this whole thing…
I’ve never been quite “normal” so I don’t git it!!!
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 3:41 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 June 2005 15:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my
asking them to
“go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about talking that
particular person into being with you, you’re looking for information for
your next encounter, right?

Hi Preston,

Yes, that’s right. Fair enough, someone isn’t turned on to you. But if you
can get meaningful feedback, you can find out if you want to do something
about it. Guys who get rejected often come to think you have to be Orlando
Bloom or something to go out with a pretty women. It’s bullshit, mostly they
just need to change their act a bit. I’ve done encounter groups where part
of it you get to sit in front of all the women in the group and listen to
what they think of you for 5 minutes. It’s totally gruelling, or can be.
But, on a practical level, you do get to find out just what is actually in
the way of you scoring. And, from that position, you can decide if you want
to change something.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share
Date: June 21, 2005 at 5:30:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, geez and far out!! I have ENOUGH trouble getting myself dressed in the
mornings without complicating matters with this stuff!!!! Lol
(Goes to drink coffee, pours it in her eye…….OUCH)
Krik

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 1:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share

Or simply try to move your right hand in a counter-clockwise motion. I just
saw this a couple weeks ago, from V’s mom, but there wasn’t a “6” involved
anywhere, just two circlular motions, foot and hand.
I drove myself nuts trying to do it when I first saw it.

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share

From Joycelyn Woods, President, NAMA

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:45:36 PM, nama.jw@verizon.net writes:

You know I have a degree in neuroscience and there are a lot of little
tricks that you can fool your brain with. It is nearly impossible to move
your foot and hand of the same side in opposite circles.

It will make you crazy because you can’t do it.

Here is the exercise:

While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and
make clockwise circles. Now, while doing this, draw the number “6”
in the air with your right hand.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues
Date: June 21, 2005 at 3:59:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What on this blue planet is Wild Jujube extract??
love
tink

On 6/21/05, fire3456@aol.com <fire3456@aol.com> wrote:

Just ran across this.  Wild Jujube Extract   Its supposed to promote
relaxation and sleep.

I haven’t tried it yet.  So take it for what its worth.  Just something else
that “may” help.  I’m going to order some and try it.  (As soon as I find a
reputable source).

If anyone has tried this….let us know how it worked.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Preston
Date: June 21, 2005 at 3:39:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks.

Peace and love,
Preston

From: fire3456@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues
Date: June 21, 2005 at 1:52:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just ran across this.  Wild Jujube Extract   Its supposed to promote relaxation and sleep.

I haven’t tried it yet.  So take it for what its worth.  Just something else that “may” help.  I’m going to order some and try it.  (As soon as I find a reputable source).

If anyone has tried this….let us know how it worked.

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Preston
Date: June 21, 2005 at 1:01:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

9174053768

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my asking them to
“go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about talking that
particular person into being with you, you’re looking for information for
your next encounter, right?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg”
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

> Hey Vector,
>
> I think if you want to go out with a woman it’s better to just be direct
> and
> say to her that’s what you want. Hanging out with her trying to be the
> listening friend is fine, but if you’re actually looking for a sexual
> relationship, then you gotta say that. A guy I know has this thing where
> he
> reads cute women’s astrological charts, tells them all sorts of stuff to
> try
> and get a hook in them. It doesn’t really work because he’s just not being
> straight. Better to say “Look, I’m really turned on to you and would love
> to
> ask you out on a date.” Women appreciate it if you’re straight, in my
> experience. If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback! It can be
> tough but at least that way you get something from the encounter. If you
> stick with this approach you’ll end up having to carry stuff to fight them
> off with! Women are fascinating things. You can learn all sorts of stuff
> about yourself by really chasing after your No. 1!
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: 18 June 2005 07:41
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m going to tread lightly so that angry feminists don’t get the idea
>> to lynch me.
>>
>> All this is well and good but you’d be well advised to take women’s
>> studies 101 or even human sexuality 101. Male feminists make great
>> friends or token bodies at feminism meetings, but unless you are really
>> attracted to very fat angry women, none of them look like they ever get
>> any sex. What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
>> want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
>> you’re not getting laid.
>>
>> You will get to listen to lots of hotties you have a crush on complain
>> about their asshole boyfriends, in the hope that you’ll finally get
>> laid, but all that will happen is she will move on to the next big
>> violent guy and you’ll have lots of conversations.
>>
>> Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
>> it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
>> sexually.
>>
>> This is another of those the way the world should be but isn’t
>> conversations. You’re looking for the alan alda support group not
>> mindvox 😉
>>
>> .:vector:.
>>
>> — Lee Albert wrote:
>>
>> > Hi rachel,
>> > I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
>> > that article right now.
>> > I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
>> > towards the feminine.
>> > Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
>> > awakened in men
>> > they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
>> > denial of that feminine or simply out of
>> > ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
>> > needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
>> > shadow imo.
>> > I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
>> > lack of awareness is
>> > causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
>> > Love to you
>> > Lee
>> >
>> >
>> > — Eye of the Bhogi wrote:
>> > > Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
>> > > right now with our
>> > > spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
>> > > talks all the time
>> > > about how the principle of motherhood is something
>> > > to be awakened in
>> > > both men and women. That “mother” is what I think
>> > > of when I think of
>> > > Goddess, but your mileage may vary.
>> > >
>> > > She spoke last night about how the women of the
>> > > world are getting
>> > > super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
>> > > if we don’t watch
>> > > out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
>> > > the female
>> > > principle far greater than any nuclear disaster. I
>> > > felt it in my gut
>> > > this morning when I read this New York Times column
>> > > by Nicholas
>> > > Kristof,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14kristof.html?hp
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
>> > > Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
>> > > now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
>> > > Very upsetting. It
>> > > made me imagine what would happen if all the women
>> > > in the world
>> > > refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
>> > > act, or stopped
>> > > cooking and making love and being the nurturers.
>> > >
>> > > How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
>> > > about this story
>> > > months ago. How do the desecrate the Goddess like
>> > > this??? It’s not,
>> > > in other words, just about women getting in touch
>> > > with their inner
>> > > Kali or Tara or Earth Mama. It’s about men
>> > > realizing they are fucking
>> > > themselves big time through the injuriou
>> >
>> > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
>> > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
>> > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>> >
>> >
>> > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
>> > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
>> > those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Yahoo! Sports
>> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
>> http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> /]=—————————————————————
>> ——=[\
>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>> \]=—————————————————————
>> ——=[/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 21, 2005 at 11:40:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 June 2005 15:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my
asking them to
“go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about talking that
particular person into being with you, you’re looking for information for
your next encounter, right?

Hi Preston,

Yes, that’s right. Fair enough, someone isn’t turned on to you. But if you
can get meaningful feedback, you can find out if you want to do something
about it. Guys who get rejected often come to think you have to be Orlando
Bloom or something to go out with a pretty women. It’s bullshit, mostly they
just need to change their act a bit. I’ve done encounter groups where part
of it you get to sit in front of all the women in the group and listen to
what they think of you for 5 minutes. It’s totally gruelling, or can be.
But, on a practical level, you do get to find out just what is actually in
the way of you scoring. And, from that position, you can decide if you want
to change something.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 21, 2005 at 10:11:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback!<

Ever heard “no means no”?
I can’t imagine asking someone “why” if they told me no to my asking them to “go out/have sex/whatever.” Do you really “demand” feedback Nick?
I guess I do see your point though- you’re not talking about talking that particular person into being with you, you’re looking for information for your next encounter, right?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

Hey Vector,

I think if you want to go out with a woman it’s better to just be direct and
say to her that’s what you want. Hanging out with her trying to be the
listening friend is fine, but if you’re actually looking for a sexual
relationship, then you gotta say that. A guy I know has this thing where he
reads cute women’s astrological charts, tells them all sorts of stuff to try
and get a hook in them. It doesn’t really work because he’s just not being
straight. Better to say “Look, I’m really turned on to you and would love to
ask you out on a date.” Women appreciate it if you’re straight, in my
experience. If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback! It can be
tough but at least that way you get something from the encounter. If you
stick with this approach you’ll end up having to carry stuff to fight them
off with! Women are fascinating things. You can learn all sorts of stuff
about yourself by really chasing after your No. 1!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: 18 June 2005 07:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

I’m going to tread lightly so that angry feminists don’t get the idea
to lynch me.

All this is well and good but you’d be well advised to take women’s
studies 101 or even human sexuality 101. Male feminists make great
friends or token bodies at feminism meetings, but unless you are really
attracted to very fat angry women, none of them look like they ever get
any sex. What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.

You will get to listen to lots of hotties you have a crush on complain
about their asshole boyfriends, in the hope that you’ll finally get
laid, but all that will happen is she will move on to the next big
violent guy and you’ll have lots of conversations.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.

This is another of those the way the world should be but isn’t
conversations. You’re looking for the alan alda support group not
mindvox 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi rachel,
> I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
> that article right now.
> I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
> towards the feminine.
> Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
> awakened in men
> they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
> denial of that feminine or simply out of
> ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
> needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
> shadow imo.
> I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
> lack of awareness is
> causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
> Love to you
> Lee
>
>
> — Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
> > right now with our
> > spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
> > talks all the time
> > about how the principle of motherhood is something
> > to be awakened in
> > both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think
> > of when I think of
> > Goddess, but your mileage may vary.
> >
> > She spoke last night about how the women of the
> > world are getting
> > super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
> > if we don’t watch
> > out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
> > the female
> > principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I
> > felt it in my gut
> > this morning when I read this New York Times column
> > by Nicholas
> > Kristof,
> >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14kristof.html?hp
> >
> >
> > which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
> > Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
> > now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
> > Very upsetting.  It
> > made me imagine what would happen if all the women
> > in the world
> > refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
> > act, or stopped
> > cooking and making love and being the nurturers.
> >
> > How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
> > about this story
> > months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like
> > this???  It’s not,
> > in other words, just about women getting in touch
> > with their inner
> > Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men
> > realizing they are fucking
> > themselves big time through the injuriou
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
>

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

/]=—————————————————————
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share
Date: June 21, 2005 at 9:53:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Or simply try to move your right hand in a counter-clockwise motion. I just saw this a couple weeks ago, from V’s mom, but there wasn’t a “6” involved anywhere, just two circlular motions, foot and hand.
I drove myself nuts trying to do it when I first saw it.

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share

From Joycelyn Woods, President, NAMA

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:45:36 PM, nama.jw@verizon.net writes:

You know I have a degree in neuroscience and there are a lot of little
tricks that you can fool your brain with. It is nearly impossible to move
your foot and hand of the same side in opposite circles.

It will make you crazy because you can’t do it.

Here is the exercise:

While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and
make clockwise circles. Now, while doing this, draw the number “6”
in the air with your right hand.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 21, 2005 at 3:57:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you get into rational discussion and stick with it, my experience is that quite often these guys come round. In the UK there was this guy called Dr Colin Brewer. He ran a big clinic in London and would make loud declaiming statements about ibogaine in the press. He was the regular skeptic the journos would call up when they were writing an article. I would debate with him, taking what he said to task bit by bit. It took a few years but last I heard he was moving away from skepticism and looking anew. Unfortunately, he was also got in a big court case for methadone prescriptions and I think he ended up getting struck off (that’s the rumour I heard), so not much came of his apparent conversion, but it was worthwhile anyway. With Addiction magazine, in the UK, I had a long-running dispute with a column writer over ibogaine, all of which got published and attracted attention. Again, it was worth the effort.

If you have a connection with this guy then you can use that. Maybe contact Dr Mash direct and explain what you want to do. She’s helped with this stuff before. I figure Dr Byrne could convert, from reading what you’ve put down. Calling someone a ratbag, that’s pretty weak. Ask for clarification. www.ibogaine-research.org is Dr Mash’s science site. Ask him to check it out. Stick with it. Be exciting if you could get in a dialogue with him. If he has to resort to name-calling then I figure he’s already halfway to Damascus.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: 18 June 2005 05:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

So, anyway, besides lending Dr Byrne the Rites of Passage DVD,
what other “evidence” or “research” can I send his way? I don’t
want to just send him a tonne of links that will lead him around
in circles, and fail to breach his bias barrier, only to confirm
his belief the Ibogaine community is just a bunch of delusional
loonies. I think he is the kind of guy that gets excited by lots
of big numbers and percentages and dramatic graphs and pretty
tables and scientific Journal citations. Anything out there
resembling such a thing?

Boris

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is
close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from
him (“Addict
in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in
reception
is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of
H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the
experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat
to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am
really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a
patient, I am
grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it
seems he is
mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient.
Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book
and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance,
which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a
good group
or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend
some drugs
or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin,
speed, addiction
relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions
and ask mine
all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I
was actually
on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day,
sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no
speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery
group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway
between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that
sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in
their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what
he’d reccomend
for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought
he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve
been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have
been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I
have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract
and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are
the studies?
These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40
years. Where
is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the
providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is
some person
in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever
that says
it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid
Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance
promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my
interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead
trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard
Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I
have about
1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people
taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but
he argues
that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that
it works, he
says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in
it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was
tested back in
the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I
continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to
squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an
explanation of the
difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine,
the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from
the medical
establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical
companies..
I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and
even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me
out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation
for his book
– he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or
if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the
surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed
patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading
addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to
say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction
treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset
thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about
ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I
also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell
not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may
help sway
a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share
Date: June 21, 2005 at 3:46:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

that´s fun! not too difficult for people who play piano or drums.
here is another one i came across awhile ago. it´s easier i think:

clap your hands on your thighs (right hand on right thight and likewise left), then grab the tip of your nose with your right hand while pulling your right earlobe with your left hand. then clap your hand on your thighs again (right hand on right thight and likewise left), then grab the tip of your nose with your left hand while pulling your left earlobe with your right hand. then start again from the beginning.

Am 21.06.2005 um 06:54 schrieb HSLotsof@aol.com:

From Joycelyn Woods, President, NAMA

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:45:36 PM, nama.jw@verizon.net writes:

You know I have a degree in neuroscience and there are a lot of little
tricks that you can fool your brain with. It is nearly impossible to move
your foot and hand of the same side in opposite circles.

It will make you crazy because you can’t do it.

Here is the exercise:

While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and
make clockwise circles. Now, while doing this, draw the number “6”
in the air with your right hand.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 21, 2005 at 3:38:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Vector,

I think if you want to go out with a woman it’s better to just be direct and
say to her that’s what you want. Hanging out with her trying to be the
listening friend is fine, but if you’re actually looking for a sexual
relationship, then you gotta say that. A guy I know has this thing where he
reads cute women’s astrological charts, tells them all sorts of stuff to try
and get a hook in them. It doesn’t really work because he’s just not being
straight. Better to say “Look, I’m really turned on to you and would love to
ask you out on a date.” Women appreciate it if you’re straight, in my
experience. If they say no then ask them why. Demand feedback! It can be
tough but at least that way you get something from the encounter. If you
stick with this approach you’ll end up having to carry stuff to fight them
off with! Women are fascinating things. You can learn all sorts of stuff
about yourself by really chasing after your No. 1!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: 18 June 2005 07:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

I’m going to tread lightly so that angry feminists don’t get the idea
to lynch me.

All this is well and good but you’d be well advised to take women’s
studies 101 or even human sexuality 101. Male feminists make great
friends or token bodies at feminism meetings, but unless you are really
attracted to very fat angry women, none of them look like they ever get
any sex. What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.

You will get to listen to lots of hotties you have a crush on complain
about their asshole boyfriends, in the hope that you’ll finally get
laid, but all that will happen is she will move on to the next big
violent guy and you’ll have lots of conversations.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.

This is another of those the way the world should be but isn’t
conversations. You’re looking for the alan alda support group not
mindvox 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi rachel,
I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
that article right now.
I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
towards the feminine.
Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
awakened in men
they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
denial of that feminine or simply out of
ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
shadow imo.
I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
lack of awareness is
causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
Love to you
Lee

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
right now with our
spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
talks all the time
about how the principle of motherhood is something
to be awakened in
both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think
of when I think of
Goddess, but your mileage may vary.

She spoke last night about how the women of the
world are getting
super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
if we don’t watch
out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
the female
principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I
felt it in my gut
this morning when I read this New York Times column
by Nicholas
Kristof,

which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
Very upsetting.  It
made me imagine what would happen if all the women
in the world
refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
act, or stopped
cooking and making love and being the nurturers.

How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
about this story
months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like
this???  It’s not,
in other words, just about women getting in touch
with their inner
Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men
realizing they are fucking
themselves big time through the injuriou

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 21, 2005 at 3:32:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the pain-killing properties of tylenol, or paracetamol, as we call it here, is amplified when taken together with aspirin and coffein. there are pills against headache with all 3 ingredients combined.
that way one can reduce the amount of tylenol and aspirin needed to get a stronger effect while lowering the risk of problems with liver or stomach.
i read this in a pharmacist´s paper. it´s still not that helpful when in really big pain.
-ekki

Am 21.06.2005 um 08:44 schrieb tink:

tylenol is TOXIC.. step away from the tylenol….
try the pm part, with out he tylenol.  I slept for 12 hours…
weird, huh?
love tink

On 6/21/05, slowone@hush.ai <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
Load up on tylenol wll help.

Watch out – “an overdose of acetaminophen [Tylenol] can cause liver
damage”
http://www.medicinenet.com/tylenol_liver_damage/article.htm

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 21, 2005 at 2:44:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tylenol is TOXIC.. step away from the tylenol….
try the pm part, with out he tylenol.  I slept for 12 hours…
weird, huh?
love tink

On 6/21/05, slowone@hush.ai <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
Load up on tylenol wll help.

Watch out – “an overdose of acetaminophen [Tylenol] can cause liver
damage”
http://www.medicinenet.com/tylenol_liver_damage/article.htm

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!
Date: June 21, 2005 at 2:11:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like the person who says it implies fondness and refers to someones
eccentricities………that’s always been my understanding of the
word…..troublemaker… well practical jokes, disruptive
humour…… still likeable whilst causing trouble.
Howard? Is this you?? hehheh
Well, bluddy Aussies.. I never was too sure whose slang it was…. if
you want to see some Kiwi slang, here’s a good link for ewes!! not
sheep, you’s fulla’s(fellows)…. ok I stop now before someone “spits
the dummy” over me wasting an email.
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sarah/content/slang.html

—- Original Message —-
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:18:51 EDT

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:41:50 PM, darkmattersfo@comcast.net
writes:

lordy, what is a ratbag?

I had to do quite a bit of looking as I didn’t know what a ratbag as
either
as it is an Australian term, and the meanings might be diverse.  I’ve
also met
Andrew Byrne at one of the last AATOD conferences and he seemed
honestly
interested in ibogaine and glad to meet me.  I emailed him asking for
an
explanation of his reported statement calling me a ratbag but, have
not yet received a
response.  I will keep you informed. I did a bit of looking and came
up with
the page indicated below that was the most interesting I found.

Howard

http://www.marquis-kyle.com.au/mt/000142.htm

Ratbag

Thursday 27 December 2001

Any person whose eccentricity I find appealing I am apt to call a
ratbag. To
me, it’s a word that implies fondness, an Australian idiom it seems.
The
British dictionaries either don’t know the word, or don’t see any
positive
connotation in it, and my old Websters doesn’t know the word at all.
Here’s what I
found:

Macquarie dictionary (1991):
‘n. colloq. 1. a rascal; rogue. 2. a person of eccentric or
nonconforming
ideas or behaviour. 3. a person whose preoccupation with a particular
theory or
belief is seen as obsessive or discreditable: that Marxist ratbag.
-ratbaggery,
n. -ratbaggy, adj.’

Australian national dictionary (1988):
‘A trouble-maker, a rogue; an eccentric; a person to whom some
opprobrium
attaches. Also attrib.
[examples cut]
Hence ratbaggery n.

[examples cut]’

Cobuild English dictionary (1995):
‘In British English, if you call someone a ratbag, you are insulting
them; an
offensive word. Lying ratbags, that’s what they are.
’
Pocket Oxford dictionary of current English (1996):
‘n. slang obnoxious person.’

dictionary.com:
No entry.

Shorter Oxford English dictionary (1968):
No entry.

Webster’s new twentieth century dictionary (1960):
No entry.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!
Date: June 21, 2005 at 1:18:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:41:50 PM, darkmattersfo@comcast.net writes:

lordy, what is a ratbag?

I had to do quite a bit of looking as I didn’t know what a ratbag as either
as it is an Australian term, and the meanings might be diverse.  I’ve also met
Andrew Byrne at one of the last AATOD conferences and he seemed honestly
interested in ibogaine and glad to meet me.  I emailed him asking for an
explanation of his reported statement calling me a ratbag but, have not yet received a
response.  I will keep you informed. I did a bit of looking and came up with
the page indicated below that was the most interesting I found.

Howard

http://www.marquis-kyle.com.au/mt/000142.htm

Ratbag

Thursday 27 December 2001

Any person whose eccentricity I find appealing I am apt to call a ratbag. To
me, it’s a word that implies fondness, an Australian idiom it seems. The
British dictionaries either don’t know the word, or don’t see any positive
connotation in it, and my old Websters doesn’t know the word at all. Here’s what I
found:

Macquarie dictionary (1991):
‘n. colloq. 1. a rascal; rogue. 2. a person of eccentric or nonconforming
ideas or behaviour. 3. a person whose preoccupation with a particular theory or
belief is seen as obsessive or discreditable: that Marxist ratbag. -ratbaggery,
n. -ratbaggy, adj.’

Australian national dictionary (1988):
‘A trouble-maker, a rogue; an eccentric; a person to whom some opprobrium
attaches. Also attrib. … [examples cut] … Hence ratbaggery n. … [examples cut]’

Cobuild English dictionary (1995):
‘In British English, if you call someone a ratbag, you are insulting them; an
offensive word. Lying ratbags, that’s what they are.

Pocket Oxford dictionary of current English (1996):
‘n. slang obnoxious person.’

dictionary.com:
No entry.

Shorter Oxford English dictionary (1968):
No entry.

Webster’s new twentieth century dictionary (1960):
No entry.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Too interesting not to share
Date: June 21, 2005 at 12:54:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From Joycelyn Woods, President, NAMA

In a message dated 6/20/05 9:45:36 PM, nama.jw@verizon.net writes:

You know I have a degree in neuroscience and there are a lot of little
tricks that you can fool your brain with. It is nearly impossible to move
your foot and hand of the same side in opposite circles.

It will make you crazy because you can’t do it.

Here is the exercise:

While sitting at your desk, lift your right foot off the floor and
make clockwise circles. Now, while doing this, draw the number “6”
in the air with your right hand.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 21, 2005 at 12:36:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Load up on tylenol wll help.

Watch out – “an overdose of acetaminophen [Tylenol] can cause liver
damage”
http://www.medicinenet.com/tylenol_liver_damage/article.htm

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!
Date: June 20, 2005 at 9:41:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lordy, what is a ratbag?

I’m still really hoping that Howard is a bit of a ratbag, cos I get on
bestuss with ratbags!! Or perhaps the meaning differs here in kiwiland???
Hehheh
All together nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww:
FOR HE’S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOWWWWWW FOR HE’S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOWWWWW
(see it was all worth it aye Howard??? :o)

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2005 3:42 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!

Hi all,
Eric, you said it simply and beautifully, and I had to add my two
cents worth, but it goes for you as well.  Without all of you working
as hard as you do, countless people would be dead or in Hell, and
you’ve saved us all.
Howard, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart, and Happy Father’s day
indeed!!  Without your efforts and energy, i know i’d be a lot worse
off, and I can see the beautiful transformations in people  daily.
You da man!!!
My love to all of you , as well as my eternal thanks.
living well truly is the best revenge :]
Love
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!
Date: June 20, 2005 at 9:28:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m still really hoping that Howard is a bit of a ratbag, cos I get on
bestuss with ratbags!! Or perhaps the meaning differs here in kiwiland???
Hehheh
All together nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww:
FOR HE’S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOWWWWWW FOR HE’S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOWWWWW
(see it was all worth it aye Howard??? :o)

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2005 3:42 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!

Hi all,
Eric, you said it simply and beautifully, and I had to add my two
cents worth, but it goes for you as well.  Without all of you working
as hard as you do, countless people would be dead or in Hell, and
you’ve saved us all.
Howard, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart, and Happy Father’s day
indeed!!  Without your efforts and energy, i know i’d be a lot worse
off, and I can see the beautiful transformations in people  daily.
You da man!!!
My love to all of you , as well as my eternal thanks.
living well truly is the best revenge :]
Love
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 20, 2005 at 1:23:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, bcalabrese@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Brett,

I am attaching a pdf file on a very interesting paper that was recently
published, “An Opiate Cocktail that Reduces Morphine Tolerance and Dependence.  I
hope it go through to the list.  In any case you should get it as I coped it to
your email as well.  It was quite surprising in that the researchers found
low dose methadone actually reduces morphine tolerance. We are not discussing
cross tolerance issues but, actual reduction of tolerance by a process known as
endocytosis.  It is a bit complex but, you can show it to your doctor re
requests for methadone.  A lot of pain management doctors are rxing methadone.
What your doctor’s problem is i don’t know but, it is his problem and not the
DEA’s.

Best regards,

Howard

In a message dated 6/20/05 10:59:09 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

“Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
than torodol? Howard perhaps?

I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative”

Not really. Load up on tylenol wll help. I use narcotics daily for pain
(TMJ and cluster headaches mostly),. I just had a tooth crack and abscess,
started a root canal (didn’t know it was cracked) and at 29,000 feet (low
cabin pressure) after the antibiotics wore off it blew up again – man that
hurt!. THANKFULLY I am loaded to the gills with narcotics and have something
called Actiq, trans-mucosal fentanyl citrate (dope in lolly-pop form
basically).
But what I did was put the Actiq lolly-pop right on the gum to absorb a
little narcotic in the place of the pain – IT WORKED WONDERULLY,  far better
than buiilding up a blood level with narcotics – which beleive me I took
plenty.. I nursed an Actiq for 3 days just for the tooth, some seconds
at a time 10, 20, 50 seconds and it lasts over an hour – you need lto use
it longer as the lolly-pop gets smaller. Normally you suck one of those
“suckers” up in about 15-20 minutes for systemic effect (about 50% in the
first 3 minutes), I don’t use

it that way. I doubt anyone will give you one Actiq and it would take
control (of you likely) if you suck on the WHOLE  thing, it is like half
a dozen bags of dope, itchies and all.

I generally take my narcotics a little at a time, very measured, just up
to the level required for the pain and that’s it.. If you are in PAIN you
might try 1/2 a pill (ie 1/2 perc) and use the medication more often if
necessary, not wait 6 hours between pills and clock watching.. Avoid SPIKING
blood levels of drugs,  be patient with the pain and don’t stomp on it
(ie take 2). You may also try a topical product like Ambesol (sp?) or oil
of cloves (old remedy, still used) to deaden the pain along with tylenol
and maybe ibuprofen. It is better to alternate the 2 if pain/fever is severe
– ie tylenol then 3 hours later ibuprofen,  3 hours later tylenol…If
you do take narcotics, if/once you start to feel the drug STOP, you have
had enough, typically you won’t get much more pain relief by more medication
once you feel the drug, What can happen is more opiates can actually stop
(flaten out) easing the pain and actually make it increase, and of course
1/2 the bottle will start sounding

like a good idea… Warm salt water mouthwash may also help.

Preston, Lighten up on yourself. You are a pain patient just like I am,
pain meds and habituation are part of the deal.. 200mg of ibo can wobble
someone (depending on them and the day), I know someone who did a tester
(100mg) and landed on her ass, but unless you are going to feed yourself
a couple hundred mg’s of ibo continuously it isn’t going to cut the
withdrawals
enough.  I also suggest staying away from “the dark side” or trying to
kill more pain than the medication is going to do *(without making it
better…)
– meaning don’t push it, don’t SPIKE it, don’t wait till you are in too
much pain (I do sometimes).. It sucks,  it is way too much pain to live
with without narcotics, it just can’t be done successully when someone
is in the kind of pain ***WE*** are in. It ain’t easy, I had to give up
being an “addict”… perfectly, no, mostly perfectly, yes or I couldn’t
trust myself with the meds I use (dilaudid, oxycodone, valium, SOMA, Fentanyl
lolly-pops, not duragesic one is

highly abusable, the other minimally so that Duragesic is often used for
treating Addicts in pain – a 600mcg Actiq unloads the entire dose in 15-20
minutes, a 25mgc Duragesic patch unloads the same amount of Fentanyl (600mcg
total) over 24 hours. It took 2 years with this doc, he initially FLIPPED
when I mentioned Dilaudid. It is a case of you are damed if you do, damed
if you don’t. A FLAG for addiction is when someone requests a specific
medication, it took me 1.5 years before I mentioned Dilaudid . Unfortunately
a FLAG for what works is also telling the doctor what kind of medication
works… and I could swear that (in the beginning) BIG BROTHER had a camera
in the room,  I wanted to switch from 20mg oxycontin twice a day to 10mg
4 times a day (medically nothing wrong with that) but DOCTORS FLIP OUT
(one pharmacist in the area won’t even fill a script unlless it is Q12H,
even though the docs say some people use every 8 hours), Sooo, I came up
with an allergy to the Pink Dye in

the 20mg pills. Pretty sad/sick to have to do that and not be able to
talk to the doctor – he knows very well what I am doing, but can’t write
a prescription or talk about it that way. He also couldn’t write for Dolphine
(would cost me $20 a month!) because flags go off at the DEA that he might
be treating addicts, as he put it  he is “not willing to fight that battle”
where the DEA comes in and crawls up his ass going over his records.

Also, I started Palladone XL, 12mg extended release hydromorphone (dilaudid),
24 hour capsules they only last me 18-20 hours and I need to fill in with
some Dilaudid till my next pill. That is typical for me to metabolize things
faster than most folks. It is a good med, low side effects (particularly
low sexual side effects for an opiate), expensive though, it is new. Plus
percocet, dilaudid, Actiq, valium, SOMA (in relatively small amounts and
in combinations), NSAIDS, herbs, smokables, breathing exercises…  Just
keep me away from those non-addictive medications, that will really do
serious damage, horrible meds (ie topamax, lamictil, gabapentin, depakote…)
and people who think taking drugs means life-long addiction, even medical
professionals who should (but don’t) know better because their CLINICAL
GUIDELINES and studies say otherwise.

Brett.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Howard..
Date: June 20, 2005 at 1:07:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/20/05 1:18:17 AM, IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com writes:

I’ve been thinking  of Howard all day, thanking him.  He’s the
father of this movement, and  now, with a new generation on the scene,
the grandaddy as well.   Congratulations Howard.  It’s late on the east coast
and i don’t know if  he’ll receive this until the morning, but i wanted to
wish him,
for all of us, a  wonderful Father’s Day Week!!  Thanks again.

Dear Eric, Mark, Tink, Mark, Mary and all,

Thank you very much for your kind sentiments.  The best part for me is the
new generation of both iboganauts and providers.  You have all done a fantastic
job in expanding the knowledge concerning ibogaine/iboga therapy.  Thanks to
Patrick for making the communication and sharing of information so easy and
thanks to Jeffrey Kamlet for sharing safety information from the 100s of patients
he has treated.

So a happy father’s day back to you and a wonderful life to all of you.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entheogenesis Australis 2005 Conference
Date: June 20, 2005 at 11:43:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

somebody get me a passport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sigh..
tink

On 6/19/05, Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

In case there’s other aussie lurkers on here that may be interested and a general heads-up on whats going on down under.

Conference Details –

See;
http://www.entheo.net/

DATE: June 24-26, 2005

DURATION: Saturday morning – Sunday Evening
ACTIVITIES
1st Day: Conference Presentations
1st Night: Party
2nd Day: Workshops & Market Stalls
ACCOMMODATION Camping onsite is FREE
Cabins are available
TICKET PRICE: ($55) EalrlyBird Tickets now $45

VENUE: This year’s conference will be held at Gumnut Camp , at the foot of the beautiful Grampians.

Conference Program:
*times and topics will be updated regularly*

PRESENTERS & TOPICS
1. Des Tramacchi Talk -1 ‘DMT in Australia: are we shamanising yet?’ Talk – 2 ‘Drugs and demonisation’

2. Michael Bock Talk -1 ‘Native Australian Tobbacco Species’ Talk – 2 ‘Mushrooms in OZ’

3. Carl Turney ]”Lagochilus, the intoxicating mint of Central Asia”.

4. Thomas Munro Two hundred years of opioids: from morphine to salvinorin A

5. David Cameron Victorian Floral Database

6. Tim PsychologyBiology and Sociobiology in of phenethylamines in the 21 Centaury.

7. Shane Huebener & Margaret Traditional Structure in Modern Circles: A Fusion of Mountain and Jungle Wisdom Dynamic Evolution at it’s Best…

8. Santillan de Pinto Relationships between psychedelics and archetypes in western art

9. Krusty “Trance Dance, Rave Culture & the Psychadelic Shamanic Experience”

10. Martin Williams R-C

11. Julian – “human <—-> plant orientations”

12. Matt Soltau – Shamanism, Neo-Shamanism and the Doof Phenomena

13. Darren Smith – Secrets from the Dancefloor

14. Adrian (unconfirmed) Status of Victorian Acacias – (A.phlebophylla – A.madenii – A.obtusifolia)

WORKSHOPS

1. Michael Bock TBA

2. Carl Turney “practical cultivation, a grower’s roundtable”.

3. Martin Williams Acid/Base extractions

4. Shane Huebener & Margaret – Experiential Medicine Workshop

PARTY INFO
Time Becomes a loop presents
Triptaminds – Green Beets

DJ’s

Paul_Abad / http://www.zonar.net/abad/
Siaqua / http://www.siaqua.com/
Krusty / Green Ant – http://www.greenant.com/
Chiba bros / 3Ear – http://3rd-ear.tinpot.org/ – http://www.giiwa.com/
Dale / Oztrance – www.oztrance.com/
Dakini / Submerge – http://www.resonant-temple.com/
Morphogen / Wild Card productions
GroovyBoots / Time Becomes A Loop- http://triptamind.earthpod.org/

HEALING & CHILL SPACE
Rainbow Architect
Dr Zaius
kundalini
Mick
RACCOON

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] WHO’S YOUR DADDY!!!
Date: June 20, 2005 at 11:41:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Eric, you said it simply and beautifully, and I had to add my two
cents worth, but it goes for you as well.  Without all of you working
as hard as you do, countless people would be dead or in Hell, and
you’ve saved us all.
Howard, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart, and Happy Father’s day
indeed!!  Without your efforts and energy, i know i’d be a lot worse
off, and I can see the beautiful transformations in people  daily.
You da man!!!
My love to all of you , as well as my eternal thanks.
living well truly is the best revenge :]
Love
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Howard..
Date: June 20, 2005 at 11:28:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Eric. I couldn’t agree more. If it wasn’t for Howard I never would have been exposed to any of this and as a result known what it was like to be clean. But I guess than goes for most of us no matter what the circumstances. So yeah, Happy belated fathers day Howard. Thank you so much.
Also Thank you and happy fathers day to you as well Eric. You’ve been quite instrumental yourself.  -M.
IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com wrote:
Hi All,
I’ve been thinking of Howard all day, thanking him.  He’s the father of this movement, and now, with a new generation on the scene, the grandaddy as well.  Congratulations Howard.  It’s late on the east coast and i don’t know if he’ll receive this until the morning, but i wanted to wish him, for all of us, a wonderful Father’s Day Week!!  Thanks again.
Eric
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 20, 2005 at 10:58:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative”

Not really. Load up on tylenol wll help. I use narcotics daily for pain (TMJ and cluster headaches mostly),. I just had a tooth crack and abscess, started a root canal (didn’t know it was cracked) and at 29,000 feet (low cabin pressure) after the antibiotics wore off it blew up again – man that hurt!. THANKFULLY I am loaded to the gills with narcotics and have something called Actiq, trans-mucosal fentanyl citrate (dope in lolly-pop form basically). But what I did was put the Actiq lolly-pop right on the gum to absorb a little narcotic in the place of the pain – IT WORKED WONDERULLY,  far better than buiilding up a blood level with narcotics – which beleive me I took plenty.. I nursed an Actiq for 3 days just for the tooth, some seconds at a time 10, 20, 50 seconds and it lasts over an hour – you need lto use it longer as the lolly-pop gets smaller. Normally you suck one of those “suckers” up in about 15-20 minutes for systemic effect (about 50% in the first 3 minutes), I don’t use it that way. I doubt anyone will give you one Actiq and it would take control (of you likely) if you suck on the WHOLE  thing, it is like half a dozen bags of dope, itchies and all.

I generally take my narcotics a little at a time, very measured, just up to the level required for the pain and that’s it.. If you are in PAIN you might try 1/2 a pill (ie 1/2 perc) and use the medication more often if necessary, not wait 6 hours between pills and clock watching.. Avoid SPIKING blood levels of drugs,  be patient with the pain and don’t stomp on it (ie take 2). You may also try a topical product like Ambesol (sp?) or oil of cloves (old remedy, still used) to deaden the pain along with tylenol and maybe ibuprofen. It is better to alternate the 2 if pain/fever is severe – ie tylenol then 3 hours later ibuprofen,  3 hours later tylenol…If you do take narcotics, if/once you start to feel the drug STOP, you have had enough, typically you won’t get much more pain relief by more medication once you feel the drug, What can happen is more opiates can actually stop (flaten out) easing the pain and actually make it increase, and of course 1/2 the bottle will start sounding like a good idea… Warm salt water mouthwash may also help.

Preston, Lighten up on yourself. You are a pain patient just like I am, pain meds and habituation are part of the deal.. 200mg of ibo can wobble someone (depending on them and the day), I know someone who did a tester (100mg) and landed on her ass, but unless you are going to feed yourself a couple hundred mg’s of ibo continuously it isn’t going to cut the withdrawals enough.  I also suggest staying away from “the dark side” or trying to kill more pain than the medication is going to do *(without making it better…) – meaning don’t push it, don’t SPIKE it, don’t wait till you are in too much pain (I do sometimes).. It sucks,  it is way too much pain to live with without narcotics, it just can’t be done successully when someone is in the kind of pain ***WE*** are in. It ain’t easy, I had to give up being an “addict”… perfectly, no, mostly perfectly, yes or I couldn’t trust myself with the meds I use (dilaudid, oxycodone, valium, SOMA, Fentanyl lolly-pops, not duragesic one is highly abusable, the other minimally so that Duragesic is often used for treating Addicts in pain – a 600mcg Actiq unloads the entire dose in 15-20 minutes, a 25mgc Duragesic patch unloads the same amount of Fentanyl (600mcg total) over 24 hours. It took 2 years with this doc, he initially FLIPPED when I mentioned Dilaudid. It is a case of you are damed if you do, damed if you don’t. A FLAG for addiction is when someone requests a specific medication, it took me 1.5 years before I mentioned Dilaudid . Unfortunately a FLAG for what works is also telling the doctor what kind of medication works… and I could swear that (in the beginning) BIG BROTHER had a camera in the room,  I wanted to switch from 20mg oxycontin twice a day to 10mg 4 times a day (medically nothing wrong with that) but DOCTORS FLIP OUT (one pharmacist in the area won’t even fill a script unlless it is Q12H, even though the docs say some people use every 8 hours), Sooo, I came up with an allergy to the Pink Dye in the 20mg pills. Pretty sad/sick to have to do that and not be able to talk to the doctor – he knows very well what I am doing, but can’t write a prescription or talk about it that way. He also couldn’t write for Dolphine (would cost me $20 a month!) because flags go off at the DEA that he might be treating addicts, as he put it  he is “not willing to fight that battle” where the DEA comes in and crawls up his ass going over his records.

Also, I started Palladone XL, 12mg extended release hydromorphone (dilaudid), 24 hour capsules they only last me 18-20 hours and I need to fill in with some Dilaudid till my next pill. That is typical for me to metabolize things faster than most folks. It is a good med, low side effects (particularly low sexual side effects for an opiate), expensive though, it is new. Plus percocet, dilaudid, Actiq, valium, SOMA (in relatively small amounts and in combinations), NSAIDS, herbs, smokables, breathing exercises…  Just keep me away from those non-addictive medications, that will really do serious damage, horrible meds (ie topamax, lamictil, gabapentin, depakote…) and people who think taking drugs means life-long addiction, even medical professionals who should (but don’t) know better because their CLINICAL GUIDELINES and studies say otherwise.

Brett.

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All, ultram & stadol are opiate family though, I thought he’s trying to avoid that. good luck to you,I admire your tencity,fondly shell

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
>
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
>
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
>
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
>
Randy
>
—–Original Message—–
>
From: mcorcoran
>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
>

>
Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
>
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
>
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
>
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
>
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
>
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
>
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.
>

>
Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
>
then.
>
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)
>

>
Preston Peet wrote:
>
HI there,
>
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
>
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?
>

>

>
Peace and love,
>
Preston Peet
>

>
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
often
>
mistaken for madness”
>
Richard Davenport-Hines
>

>
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>
Cont. High Times mag/.com
>
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>
Columnist New York Waste
>
Etc.
>

>

>

>
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>
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>
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>
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>

>

>

>

>

>

>
——–
>
Yahoo! Sports
>
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
>

>

>

>
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>
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>
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>

>

>

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Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Howard..
Date: June 20, 2005 at 10:15:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What a wonderful sentiment Eric, and Happy Fathers day Howard 🙂

Mark

From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] for Howard..
Date: June 20, 2005 at 1:18:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
I’ve been thinking of Howard all day, thanking him.  He’s the father of this movement, and now, with a new generation on the scene, the grandaddy as well.  Congratulations Howard.  It’s late on the east coast and i don’t know if he’ll receive this until the morning, but i wanted to wish him, for all of us, a wonderful Father’s Day Week!!  Thanks again.
Eric

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 20, 2005 at 9:21:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi ,toradol is an antiinflammatory ,one of the strongest,in shot form is very effective ,orally is really hard on stomach, my md gave me a  toradol injection when i was detoxing to help with pain,tramadol is ultram.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Wonder if Tramadol is the same as torodol. Thanks so much for the info. Will come in very handy.

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
>
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
>
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
>
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
>
Randy
>
—–Original Message—–
>
From: mcorcoran
>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
>

>
Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
>
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
>
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
>
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
>
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
>
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
>
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.
>

>
Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
>
then.
>
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)
>

>
Preston Peet wrote:
>
HI there,
>
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
>
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?
>

>

>
Peace and love,
>
Preston Peet
>

>
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
often
>
mistaken for madness”
>
Richard Davenport-Hines
>

>
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>
Cont. High Times mag/.com
>
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>
Columnist New York Waste
>
Etc.
>

>

>

>
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>

>

>

>

>

>
——–
>
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>
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>

>

>

>
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 20, 2005 at 9:13:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All, Ive known several that transferred their opiate habit to ultram ,and used it myself, regardless of its label, it is addictive, Ive used it to tied me over when sources were slim,also triggers cravings. best wishes-shell

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

technically Ultram is not an opiate. it is supposedly addictive though and is an opioid agonist…

A quasi-narcotic that is not an opiate, but acts like one anyway.. Sounds evil.

ps. I am not a doctor. 🙂

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/tramadol/tramadol.shtml
Tramadol
COMMON & BRAND NAMES
Ultram; Ultracet (w/ Acetaminophen)
EFFECTS CLASSIFICATION
Non-opiate Synthetic Analgesic
CHEMICAL NAME
trans-(+/-)-2-[(dimethylamino)methyl]-1-(3-methoxyphenyl) cyclohexanol
DESCRIPTION
Tramadol is a quasi-narcotic analgesic used in the treatment of moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic analog of codeine, but has a low binding affinity to the mu-opioid receptors. It has been prescribed off-label for the treatment of diabetic neuropathy and restless leg syndrome.

tramadol experiences:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_-_Tramadol.shtml

have a read of this:
“what are the best non opiate pain medacations to take for addicts.”
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/addiction/messages/31782a.html

Boris

—- shelley krupa wrote:
> Hi All, ultram & stadol are opiate family though, I thought he’s trying to avoid that. good luck to you,I admire your tencity,fondly shell
>

>
Boris Leshinsky wrote:
>

>
There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.
>

>
There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
>
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.
>

>
http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
>
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
>
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com
>

>
http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
>
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
>
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
>
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
>
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
>
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”
>

>

>
Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..
>

>

>
Boris
>

>

>
—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
>
> Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
>
>
>
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
>
>
>
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
>
>
>
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
>
>
>
Randy
>
>
>
—–Original Message—–
>
>
>
From: mcorcoran
>
>
>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
>
>
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
>
>
>

>
>
>
Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
>
>
>
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
>
>
>
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
>
>
>
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
>
>
>
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
>
>
>
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
>
>
>
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.
>
>
>

>
>
>
Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
>
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
>
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
>
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
>
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
>
>
>
then.
>
>
>
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)
>
>
>

>
>
>
Preston Peet
>
wrote:
>
>
>
HI there,
>
>
>
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
>
>
>
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?
>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>
Peace and love,
>
>
>
Preston Peet
>
>
>

>
>
>
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
>
>
often
>
>
>
mistaken for madness”
>
>
>
Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>

>
>
>
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>
>
>
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>
>
>
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>
>
>
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>
>
>
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>
>
>
Cont. High Times mag/.com
>
>
>
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>
>
>
Columnist New York Waste
>
>
>
Etc.
>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>
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>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>
>
——–
>
>
>
Yahoo! Sports
>
>
>
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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Howard..
Date: June 20, 2005 at 1:37:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all as well,
I’d like to echo Eric’s message.  Howard is the essence of what it means to be a father – wise, caring, attentive.  Howard, you deserve to know how much you are appreciated and in the spirit of Father’s Day I send my appreciation!!
Mary

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 20, 2005 at 1:19:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tramadol, afaik, is a synthetic opioid, kind of like synthetic codeine. a strong painkiller and addictive, at least in the long run. high doses give a good kick. prolonged heavy use can lead to epileptic and grand mal fits. the habit needs a while to develop but then it is hard to stop.

Am 20.06.2005 um 05:25 schrieb mcorcoran:

Wonder if Tramadol is the same as torodol. Thanks so much for the info. Will come in very handy.

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
>
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
>
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
>
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
>
Randy
>
—–Original Message—–
>
From: mcorcoran
>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
>

>
Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
>
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
>
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
>
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
>
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
>
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
>
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.
>

>
Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
>
then.
>
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)
>

>
Preston Peet wrote:
>
HI there,
>
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
>
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?
>

>

>
Peace and love,
>
Preston Peet
>

>
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
often
>
mistaken for madness”
>
Richard Davenport-Hines
>

>
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>
Cont. High Times mag/.com
>
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>
Columnist New York Waste
>
Etc.
>

>

>

>
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>

>

>

>

>

>
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>
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>
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From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] for Howard..
Date: June 20, 2005 at 1:17:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
I’ve been thinking of Howard all day, thanking him.  He’s the father of this movement, and now, with a new generation on the scene, the grandaddy as well.  Congratulations Howard.  It’s late on the east coast and i don’t know if he’ll receive this until the morning, but i wanted to wish him, for all of us, a wonderful Father’s Day Week!!  Thanks again.
Eric

From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entheogenesis Australis 2005 Conference
Date: June 19, 2005 at 11:29:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In case there’s other aussie lurkers on here that may be interested and a general heads-up on whats going on down under.

Conference Details –

See;
http://www.entheo.net/

DATE: June 24-26, 2005

DURATION: Saturday morning – Sunday Evening
ACTIVITIES
1st Day: Conference Presentations
1st Night: Party
2nd Day: Workshops & Market Stalls
ACCOMMODATION Camping onsite is FREE
Cabins are available
TICKET PRICE: ($55) EalrlyBird Tickets now $45

VENUE: This year’s conference will be held at Gumnut Camp , at the foot of the beautiful Grampians.

Conference Program:
*times and topics will be updated regularly*

PRESENTERS & TOPICS
1. Des Tramacchi Talk -1 ‘DMT in Australia: are we shamanising yet?’ Talk – 2 ‘Drugs and demonisation’

2. Michael Bock Talk -1 ‘Native Australian Tobbacco Species’ Talk – 2 ‘Mushrooms in OZ’

3. Carl Turney ]”Lagochilus, the intoxicating mint of Central Asia”.

4. Thomas Munro Two hundred years of opioids: from morphine to salvinorin A

5. David Cameron Victorian Floral Database

6. Tim PsychologyBiology and Sociobiology in of phenethylamines in the 21 Centaury.

7. Shane Huebener & Margaret Traditional Structure in Modern Circles: A Fusion of Mountain and Jungle Wisdom Dynamic Evolution at it’s Best…

8. Santillan de Pinto Relationships between psychedelics and archetypes in western art

9. Krusty “Trance Dance, Rave Culture & the Psychadelic Shamanic Experience”

10. Martin Williams R-C

11. Julian – “human <—-> plant orientations”

12. Matt Soltau – Shamanism, Neo-Shamanism and the Doof Phenomena

13. Darren Smith – Secrets from the Dancefloor

14. Adrian (unconfirmed) Status of Victorian Acacias – (A.phlebophylla – A.madenii – A.obtusifolia)

WORKSHOPS

1. Michael Bock TBA

2. Carl Turney “practical cultivation, a grower’s roundtable”.

3. Martin Williams Acid/Base extractions

4. Shane Huebener & Margaret – Experiential Medicine Workshop

PARTY INFO
Time Becomes a loop presents
Triptaminds – Green Beets

DJ’s

Paul_Abad / http://www.zonar.net/abad/
Siaqua / http://www.siaqua.com/
Krusty / Green Ant – http://www.greenant.com/
Chiba bros / 3Ear – http://3rd-ear.tinpot.org/ – http://www.giiwa.com/
Dale / Oztrance – www.oztrance.com/
Dakini / Submerge – http://www.resonant-temple.com/
Morphogen / Wild Card productions
GroovyBoots / Time Becomes A Loop- http://triptamind.earthpod.org/

HEALING & CHILL SPACE
Rainbow Architect
Dr Zaius
kundalini
Mick
RACCOON

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From: “Lorenzo” <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 11:26:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“The 2C’s are basically Acid with Training Wheels” LOL, yes good description! 🙂

Dose of 2CT2 is 30mg or so, this is 2 – 6 times usualy dose found in “club pill”. Over 40mg and you have headache and dizzyness, sickness.

Cheers
Lorenzo

— On Sun 06/19, Patrick K.Kroupa < digital@phantom.com > wrote: From: Patrick K.Kroupa [mailto: digital@phantom.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:19:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
On Jun 19, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

> Thanks Boris,
> But all the research I’ve so far read says it’s a bit different,
> in many fairly impressive sounding ways, than 2ct-7, much different
> high apparently and much more psychedelic, as well as empathic.

It’s a relatively mild psychedelic; like low-dosing acid… and you
have the warm fuzzy happiness vibe going throughout.

Although it is a phenethylamine, unlike candyflipping (acid + X),
there’s none of the teeth-grinding, hummm, why am I tense; oh yeah,
it’s psYchedeliC speeD!@!! feeling.

The 2C’s are basically Acid with Training Wheels. NoAp, not going to
a b4[> pla(e, not going to a bad place, whoah, nope, falling
facefirst into the Abyss of Eternal Despair isn’t on the schedule for
this journey… Mmmmm, HappY.

I have personally noticed no major appreciable differences between 2C-
T-2 and 2C-T-7, but your milage may vary; everybody has neurochemical
individuality, and it’s never too late to develop obscure fetishes
and preferences. “NooOOOoO0! Obviously you JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND.
If it’s not 2C-T-2 then it’s NO GOOD!@#”

Ahhh, this [HERE] is the part where someone
ARRIVES and rants about what a soul-wrenching, horrible, nightmare of
a tr1p they had last year while doing 2C-T-2. “It suX and it’s eViL!
@#! You’re all idiots.”

Do sum and figure out whut it duz for you…

> Why is it that people ususally tell me, “only do half,” and it
> so rarely doesn’t really mean, “do at least this whole thing if not
> two or three”? At least in your case, it was the opposite, that you
> were told you’d probably need double- that so rare to my ears.

If you didn’t trip, you just did a very low dose. Double or
quadruple what you did, would kickstart the journey. <– Having said
that, the 2C’s have a point of diminishing returns where doing more
will chain-react the speedy side-effects, shred apart the warm
fuzzies, and not make anymore pretTy (olorS.

Patrick

Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 19, 2005 at 11:25:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wonder if Tramadol is the same as torodol. Thanks so much for the info. Will come in very handy.

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
>
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
>
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
>
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
>
Randy
>
—–Original Message—–
>
From: mcorcoran
>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
>

>
Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
>
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
>
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
>
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
>
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
>
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
>
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.
>

>
Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
>
then.
>
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)
>

>
Preston Peet wrote:
>
HI there,
>
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
>
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?
>

>

>
Peace and love,
>
Preston Peet
>

>
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
often
>
mistaken for madness”
>
Richard Davenport-Hines
>

>
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>
Cont. High Times mag/.com
>
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>
Columnist New York Waste
>
Etc.
>

>

>

>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>

>

>

>

>

>

>
——–
>
Yahoo! Sports
>
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
>

>

>

>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>

>

>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Sports
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 11:23:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No fair!!! I’m always the guinie pig! I’m writing all of this down but Kratom doens’t work for me.

biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
then.
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet wrote:
HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

——–
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] kratom
Date: June 19, 2005 at 11:06:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We’ve got some baby kratom plants growing, may report in a few months 🙂

Kratom is weird in that in low doses it acts as a stimulant, and can (mildly) alleviate withdrawal and pain, but at higher doses crosses over to the mu-opioid receptors and has an effect similar to opiates.

Its from thailand, mainly used by farmers there, they chew the leaves while they work, they reckon it makes them more motivated (cultural context indoctrination alert). It is illegal there and has the same penalties as heroin. But it grow naturally, so hard to control.
Strange fact I read somewhere – Thai farmers are more willing to give their doughter in marriage to a kratom eater than to a pothead, because kratom eaters like work and potheads are lazy. 🙂

—- Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
someone also told me a friend of theirs now has a kratom habit.

And that it’s quite similar to opiates in effect, but without much of the

euphoria.

Peace and love,

Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often

mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

—– Original Message —–

From: fire3456@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 5:46 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

For pain you might want to look into the herb Kratom, maybe in addition to

other non-narcotic meds. From the articles I have read it sounds

interesting.

—–Original Message—–

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other than

torodol? Howard perhaps?

I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a

mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a point

where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even then.

How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

HI there,

Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?

Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,

Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often

mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Sports

Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:58:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

technically Ultram is not an opiate. it is supposedly addictive though and is an opioid agonist…

A quasi-narcotic that is not an opiate, but acts like one anyway.. Sounds evil.

ps. I am not a doctor. 🙂

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/tramadol/tramadol.shtml
Tramadol
COMMON & BRAND NAMES
Ultram; Ultracet (w/ Acetaminophen)
EFFECTS CLASSIFICATION
Non-opiate Synthetic Analgesic
CHEMICAL NAME
trans-(+/-)-2-[(dimethylamino)methyl]-1-(3-methoxyphenyl) cyclohexanol
DESCRIPTION
Tramadol is a quasi-narcotic analgesic used in the treatment of moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic analog of codeine, but has a low binding affinity to the mu-opioid receptors. It has been prescribed off-label for the treatment of diabetic neuropathy and restless leg syndrome.

tramadol experiences:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_-_Tramadol.shtml

have a read of this:
“what are the best non opiate pain medacations to take for addicts.”
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/addiction/messages/31782a.html

Boris

—- shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All, ultram & stadol are opiate family though, I thought he’s trying to avoid that. good luck to you,I admire your tencity,fondly shell

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.

May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm

Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm

“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and

John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be

85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.

Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of

morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:

Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy

mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of

seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you

can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.

Randy

—–Original Message—–

From: mcorcoran

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve

been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches

and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and

you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as

a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your

experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone

loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other

than torodol? Howard perhaps?

I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a

mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a

point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even

then.

How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet

wrote:

HI there,

Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?

Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,

Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often

mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

——–

Yahoo! Sports

Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:52:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

someone also told me a friend of theirs now has a kratom habit.
And that it’s quite similar to opiates in effect, but without much of the euphoria.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: fire3456@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]

For pain you might want to look into the herb Kratom, maybe in addition to other non-narcotic meds. From the articles I have read it sounds interesting.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other than torodol? Howard perhaps?
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even then.
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:44:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All, ultram & stadol are opiate family though, I thought he’s trying to avoid that. good luck to you,I admire your tencity,fondly shell

Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy
>
mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of
>
seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you
>
can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
>
Randy
>
—–Original Message—–
>
From: mcorcoran
>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
>

>
Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve
>
been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches
>
and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and
>
you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as
>
a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your
>
experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone
>
loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.
>

>
Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other
>
than torodol? Howard perhaps?
>
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a
>
mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a
>
point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even
>
then.
>
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)
>

>
Preston Peet wrote:
>
HI there,
>
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
>
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?
>

>

>
Peace and love,
>
Preston Peet
>

>
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
often
>
mistaken for madness”
>
Richard Davenport-Hines
>

>
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>
Cont. High Times mag/.com
>
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>
Columnist New York Waste
>
Etc.
>

>

>

>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>

>

>

>

>

>

>
——–
>
Yahoo! Sports
>
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
>

>

>

>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>

>

>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:29:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy

mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of

seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you

can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.

Randy

—–Original Message—–

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve

been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches

and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and

you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as

a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your

experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone

loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other

than torodol? Howard perhaps?

I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a

mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a

point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even

then.

How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

HI there,

Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?

Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,

Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often

mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] painkillers
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:29:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s Ultram (Tramadol, sold as Tramol here in Australia). But I think it may work on the same receptors as the narcotics, so is still not ideal. Look around for more info on that one.

There’s also DLPA (DL-phenylalanine), an amino acid, which can apparently work wonders for some (as effectively as morphine) and do nothing for others. If this works for you, it would be ideal – it actually restores damage to the body’s pain-relieving system done by opiates.
May not be appropriate for pain from facial surgery, you’d have to look into it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/pain.html
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
Many other sites if you do a search in google. There is also a book about it, “DLPA for chronic pain and depression”, I think – can find it at Amazon.com

http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/pain/endorphi.htm
“Research at both the University of Chicago Medical School and
John Hopkins University School of Medicean showed DL-phenylalanine to be
85% to 90% effective for the control and reduction of chronic pain.
Studies showed the analgesic effect of DLPA equals or exceeds that of
morphine and other opiates derivatives. ”

Preston, what’s the cause of your pain? I am sure you’ve already mentioned it, but I am new round here..

Boris

—- biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy

mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of

seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you

can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.

Randy

—–Original Message—–

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve

been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches

and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and

you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as

a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your

experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone

loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other

than torodol? Howard perhaps?

I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a

mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a

point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even

then.

How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

HI there,

Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?

Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,

Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often

mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,

Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:05:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc, maybe Stadol. They used to use it for migraines. If I’m noy mistaken they still have a Stadol nasal spray. I’ve been thinking of seeing into Stadol myself for after dental surgery. SOOOOOOOOOO now you can be the guinie pig and tell me if it works.
Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill? I’ve been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other than torodol? Howard perhaps?
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even then.
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 19, 2005 at 6:23:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you James…
i went sailing today on Lake Champlain, and about two nights ago, I
crashed and burned for about 12 hours of death like stupor sleep.
Finally!!  Now I just have to stop sneezing every 15 seconds.  I stil
am a bit low on the energy, but I made myself get up and ride my bike
downtown,  and have managed to do almost everything I’ve set out this
week.
I still wake up shaky and electric every two hours, but I did get that
one night of sleep, so, there’s hope for me yet ;]
I’m seeing that light more clearely now, and with nifty little tracers
and trailers and purpley things all over the place.  STILL…
Anyhoo…thank you again for your email.  It always makes me feel
better about everything when I know someone else has had a similar
experience :]
love to you,
tink

On 6/18/05, MrPure@aol.com <MrPure@aol.com> wrote:

tink,
I just read an email from you about after Ibo feelings and I just wanted to
tell you that it was at least 2 weeks after the treatment that I started
feeling anywhere close to normal and an additional week after that when I
started really feeling back!  But I always knew there was a light at the end
of the tunnel, so to speak, and that helped me thru the tough times.
I read most of the emails on the list but I’m a few days behind so I hope
this email finds you much better. Good luck.
peace
James

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 5:50:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, Preston, what is 2CT-T like? Why would you want to do it
instead of something else like MDMA? I read erowid, the papers there
say empathogen with hallucinatory effects.

I’ve tried 2CB years ago, it was on the club scene for all of 6
minutes I haven’t seen any in a long time and haven’t ever heard of
the 2 or 7’s, have they ever been out before or is this new in
america? I don’t remember tripping much at all but had that flowing
MDMA glow where everything was great! I liked it but can’t say it gave
me any amazing insights except feeling good is great. Of course my set
and setting were a club, but it was fun! I also probably had a lower
dose because I don’t remember tripping too hard, nothing like what
they’re writing on erowid.

KV

On 6/19/05, Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On Jun 19, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Thanks Boris,
But all the research I’ve so far read says it’s a bit different, in many
fairly impressive sounding ways, than 2ct-7, much different high apparently
and much more psychedelic, as well as empathic.

It’s a relatively mild psychedelic; like low-dosing acid… and you have the
warm fuzzy happiness vibe going throughout.

Although it is a phenethylamine, unlike candyflipping (acid + X), there’s
none of the teeth-grinding, hummm, why am I tense; oh yeah, it’s psYchedeliC
speeD!@!! feeling.

The 2C’s are basically Acid with Training Wheels.  NoAp, not going to a b4[>
pla(e, not going to a bad place, whoah, nope, falling facefirst into the
Abyss of Eternal Despair isn’t on the schedule for this journey…  Mmmmm,
HappY.

I have personally noticed no major appreciable differences between 2C-T-2
and 2C-T-7, but your milage may vary; everybody has neurochemical
individuality, and it’s never too late to develop obscure fetishes and
preferences.  “NooOOOoO0!  Obviously you JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND.  If it’s not
2C-T-2 then it’s NO GOOD!@#”

<Flipping Through Script> Ahhh, this [HERE] is the part where someone
ARRIVES and rants about what a soul-wrenching, horrible, nightmare of a tr1p
they had last year while doing 2C-T-2.  “It suX and it’s eViL!@#!  You’re
all idiots.”

Do sum and figure out whut it duz for you…

Why is it that people ususally tell me, “only do half,” and it so rarely
doesn’t really mean, “do at least this whole thing if not two or three”? At
least in your case, it was the opposite, that you were told you’d probably
need double- that so rare to my ears.

If you didn’t trip, you just did a very low dose.  Double or quadruple what
you did, would kickstart the journey.  <– Having said that, the 2C’s have a
point of diminishing returns where doing more will chain-react the speedy
side-effects, shred apart the warm fuzzies, and not make anymore pretTy
(olorS.

Patrick

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From: fire3456@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: June 19, 2005 at 5:46:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For pain you might want to look into the herb Kratom, maybe in addition to other non-narcotic meds. From the articles I have read it sounds interesting.

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other than torodol? Howard perhaps?
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even then.
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 5:31:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill?<

Nope, none whatsoever. It’s a teeny amount of whatever inside it though, nothing like that teeny booster even did.

I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and you can do a lot less.<

I’ve also heard that burns the hell outta the nostrils, so no thanks kindly though.
;-))
SHooting it, awwww, why’d you have to go and do that for?
;-))
No, don’t worry, not really interested in that route with this particular substance- I think I’d prefer the slower more gradual come-on oral ingestion results in.
No idea how ibogaine works on pain- although I have noticed that I forget my pain while fully under full dosage but once even slightly aware of my body again I still felt all pain in back and leg.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill?  I’ve been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other than torodol? Howard perhaps?
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even then.
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 19, 2005 at 5:20:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeh mate, and MALES are a RRRREAL picnic to figure out HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Hehheh all in fun
Luff n lafta
Kirky xxx

—–Original Message—–
From: biscuitboy714@aol.com [mailto:biscuitboy714@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, 20 June 2005 1:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

Vector is right. Everytime I act nice and respectful thats just what I
get, NICE AND RESPECTFUL. When I play somewhere all I have to do is be
an asshole and I can get just about whatever I want. It’s just so hard
to be a dick these days. Just what the fuck is an artist anyway? This
shit it is getting deep. I wore a dress on stage a few times, what does
that make me? A freak? Who cares? I’m not an artist, I’m just a guy who
has played music all his life, and I do know that women are so hard to
figure out that I STILL at 47, am fucked when it comes to figuring out
how to treat them.         Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way 😉

What this conversation really needs is Day Brown 🙂 Day are you out
there somewhere, you’re much better at the goddess is vastly superior
to me kick me in the balls while I grovel for the sins of all men, then
anyone 🙂

If I’ve offended anyone please don’t take me seriously, I’m having a
great 2 weeks 🙂

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.<

LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as
far from
big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did
before
having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but
still a
lot.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want,
but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.<

At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all
not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and
cannot
believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own
experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of
women,
think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and
yet, what
would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped,
etc.
That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session
and
I’ve got the glow.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 5:07:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston, any idea what the dosage is on that 2-ct-2 pill?  I’ve been thinkin about trying but I hear that a lot of people get headaches and stomach issues. I hear that if you snort it its a lot shorter and you can do a lot less. I won’t put anything in my arm or in my nose as a personal boundary but thought I’d mention it. Let me know what your experience is like if you decide to take it. I haven’t heard of anyone loving it but I have heard its a really heady introspective trip.

Also, does anyone know of any non-narcotic pain meds that work other than torodol? Howard perhaps?
I am having facial surgery on Tuesday and I know its gonna hurt like a mother after and I’d like to avoid using any narcotics unless I’m at a point where hanging myself seems like the only alternative… and even then.
How does ibogaine work for pain on its own? I have some of that… ;O)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 1:19:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Jun 19, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Preston Peet wrote:
Thanks Boris,
But all the research I’ve so far read says it’s a bit different, in many fairly impressive sounding ways, than 2ct-7, much different high apparently and much more psychedelic, as well as empathic.

It’s a relatively mild psychedelic; like low-dosing acid… and you have the warm fuzzy happiness vibe going throughout.

Although it is a phenethylamine, unlike candyflipping (acid + X), there’s none of the teeth-grinding, hummm, why am I tense; oh yeah, it’s psYchedeliC speeD!@!! feeling.

The 2C’s are basically Acid with Training Wheels.  NoAp, not going to a b4[> pla(e, not going to a bad place, whoah, nope, falling facefirst into the Abyss of Eternal Despair isn’t on the schedule for this journey…  Mmmmm, HappY.

I have personally noticed no major appreciable differences between 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7, but your milage may vary; everybody has neurochemical individuality, and it’s never too late to develop obscure fetishes and preferences.  “NooOOOoO0!  Obviously you JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND.  If it’s not 2C-T-2 then it’s NO GOOD!@#”

<Flipping Through Script> Ahhh, this [HERE] is the part where someone ARRIVES and rants about what a soul-wrenching, horrible, nightmare of a tr1p they had last year while doing 2C-T-2.  “It suX and it’s eViL!@#!  You’re all idiots.”

Do sum and figure out whut it duz for you…

Why is it that people ususally tell me, “only do half,” and it so rarely doesn’t really mean, “do at least this whole thing if not two or three”? At least in your case, it was the opposite, that you were told you’d probably need double- that so rare to my ears.

If you didn’t trip, you just did a very low dose.  Double or quadruple what you did, would kickstart the journey.  <– Having said that, the 2C’s have a point of diminishing returns where doing more will chain-react the speedy side-effects, shred apart the warm fuzzies, and not make anymore pretTy (olorS.

Patrick

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 19, 2005 at 1:03:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just want to suggest that you stop feeling depressed and irritated.  You
are obviously taking ibogaine to stabilize opioid pain management and not to
stop opioid therapy.  Under those circumstances just look at ibogaine as an
adjunct to pain management.  If you begin to feel withdrawal you should take
opioids as I am sure you are doing to eliminate your withdrawal after the ibogaine
booster begins to wear off.<

thanks Howard.

That you demonstrated ataxia from a 3 mg/kg dose of ibogaine is interesting
as I think most persons would not.  But, I would be interested in hearing from
the list as to effects of low/intermediate ibogaine doses (200 mg – 300 mg
total dose).  I anticipate you are in that dose range.<

The ataxia was very slight. I could move around just fine, but with some effort too. I did NOT want to go outside to the store, and waited some 6 hours for V to go out and visit friends then go to the store for me instead of making the trek myself- it felt better to lay down, at least for the first 6-8 hours. I never felt nausea, but did get that burning stomach feeling. I got VERY definite rippling effects in my vision, extremely vivid rippling effects, but not vision states to speak of, unless it helped my dreaming for the half hour I was able to sleep during that time.

Peace and love, and thanks for the encouragement Howard, really, very helpful.

Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Hi Preston,

I just want to suggest that you stop feeling depressed and irritated.  You
are obviously taking ibogaine to stabilize opioid pain management and not to
stop opioid therapy.  Under those circumstances just look at ibogaine as an
adjunct to pain management.  If you begin to feel withdrawal you should take
opioids as I am sure you are doing to eliminate your withdrawal after the ibogaine
booster begins to wear off.

That you demonstrated ataxia from a 3 mg/kg dose of ibogaine is interesting
as I think most persons would not.  But, I would be interested in hearing from
the list as to effects of low/intermediate ibogaine doses (200 mg – 300 mg
total dose).  I anticipate you are in that dose range.

Howard

In a message dated 6/18/05 6:16:48 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

A 300 mic booster Howard, I think. It might only have been a 2.5, but I’m
pretty sure it was a 3.

I ate it on a completely empty stomach, drank shitloads of water, had to
pee about 40 times (who said that recently, that they had to keep getting up
to pee, and I kept thinking that this morning wobbling to the toilet as I
didn’t feel like peeing in the bucket), got definite trails, and wobbliness,
as mentioned, and felt great from about 5AM until about 12:30PM, then
withdrawals kicked in a bit and I started to get very depressed and
irritated, as you may be able to tell from previous messages.

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] My night
Date: June 19, 2005 at 12:45:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

I’m back home and ok….you sounded like you knew where I was headed yesterday, I’m sorry if I made you feel like you had helped me down the stairs, I was falling anyway. After scuffing the usual beat I went home and took a couple Norcos 🙂 I had been saving and called my brother for moral support. He verbally beat me down for a few minutes and got me all pissed off. Then I ended up just rubbing icy hot on my aching joints and sitting around the house like a geriatric. I fed my cat, played a computer game and went to bed at with at least some self respect left.

All is well, this morning is rough though, apparently someone beat the living shit out of me in my sleep last night with a magical “junkie be good” bat that while not leaving any physical evidence made a slushy out of everything just under the surface of my skin.

If I ever catch that magical bat wielding asshole I’m gonna send him my brothers way!

Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 19, 2005 at 12:28:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston wrote:
Why do I have so much trouble keeping my self-promises of
improving healthy living? What in the fuck is going on in me,
and in so many others? …
Anyone got “the” answer for me, or is everyone else just as
fucking clueless as me?

Preston, I believe there is an answer somewhere in your mind and
being, but that at a gut level it must seem more painful to you
than what you are feeling. Probably you rule it out as trivial or
oppressive or whatever. I bet there is an answer and a big defense
mechanism around it that is an integral part of your view of
reality and who you think you are.

Here’s something I wrote after an early iboga experience. The drama
of it now seems like part of my own defense mechanism.

] It took two weeks to finally feel that the immediate effects
]of the drug had ceased, before I found a familiarity with
]myself that I had not noticed was missing.  It was months
]before I felt that I had a safe enough wall protecting me
]from the implications of what I had seen. The strong sense
]that I could not possibly live long enough to process that
]material persisted.
]
] This horrific experience broke a many-year stretch of insomnia.
]
] In spite of the pain, for the first time I felt that I knew
]who I am, at least in outline.
]
] It was as if I had awoken in a hospital bed, and noticed a
]patient lying unconscious in the adjacent bed, barely gasping
]through a tube – a piece of live meat. I could only see the
]body cast, hear the harsh suck of air, imagine the damage.
]But between me and this gory companion, I understood at last
]that this hospital room was the vessel containing all of myself.

I wish I could have had a skilled therapist or Bwitist or ritual
there to help me work through it on the spot, if it’s possible. In
any case, I hope it can show how an articulate person can be
surprised by his own insides and get a partial answer as to what
makes him tick 🙂

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 12:11:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Boris,
But all the research I’ve so far read says it’s a bit different, in many fairly impressive sounding ways, than 2ct-7, much different high apparently and much more psychedelic, as well as empathic.
Why is it that people ususally tell me, “only do half,” and it so rarely doesn’t really mean, “do at least this whole thing if not two or three”? At least in your case, it was the opposite, that you were told you’d probably need double- that so rare to my ears.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 4:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

I tried 2ct7 once, which is supposedly very similar, about 5 years ago
when it was still legal. The guy I got it from ran a website that sold
it, over in Switzerland or Austria or something, I am pretty sure it was
the real thing. I only had a mild dose, as it was the first time I tried
it. He had them in pill form and I just had 1. Was not very psychedelic,
more like mild ecstacy, with a bit of a speedy feeling. Was not
particularly impressed, but he did say you’d need 2 to feel the
psychedelic effects. That was in Zambia (solipse festival), have never
come across it since.

Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2005 12:12 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: (OFF TOPIC ) COOKIE BREAK
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:33:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

>
> Cookie Break…
>
> Cosmic Cookie
>
> Great Mind in which I dream… awaken me.
> Great Mind in which I dwell… heal my Body.
>
> Great Mind in which I think… clear my Thoughts.
> Great Mind in which I breathe… clear my Lungs.
>
> Great Mind in which I am aware… speak to me.
> Great Mind in which I am… possess my Soul.
>
> Great Soul I am
> help me to be the Best I can be.
>
> THE MEANING BEHIND WORDS SPOKEN ALOUD ARE THE LAW
>
>
>
>
>Seagulls Fly High and Observe the World,,,,,,,,,,
>Dolphins Swimm and Chatter Wisely,,,,,,,,,
>Whales Dive Deep and Sing the Song of the Earth

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 19, 2005 at 10:01:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congrats!
—–Original Message—–
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:49 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

I have 4 months today!!!viva le iboga!!

biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
Vector is right. Everytime I act nice and respectful thats just what I
get, NICE AND RESPECTFUL. When I play somewhere all I have to do is be
an asshole and I can get just about whatever I want. It’s just so hard
to be a dick these days. Just what the fuck is an artist anyway? This
shit it is getting deep. I wore a dress on stage a few times, what does
that make me? A freak? Who cares? I’m not an artist, I’m just a guy who
has played music all his life, and I do know that women are so hard to
figure out that I STILL at 47, am fucked when it comes to figuring out
how to treat them. Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way 😉

What this conversation really needs is Day Brown 🙂 Day are you out
there somewhere, you’re much better at the goddess is vastly superior
to me kick me in the balls while I grovel for the sins of all men, then
anyone 🙂

If I’ve offended anyone please don’t take me seriously, I’m having a
great 2 weeks 🙂

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet wrote:

> >What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
> want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
> you’re not getting laid.<
>
> LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as
> far from
> big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did
> before
> having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but
> still a
> lot.
>
> >Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want,
> but
> it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
> sexually.<
>
> At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all
> not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and
> cannot
> believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own
> experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of
> women,
> think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and
> yet, what
> would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped,
> etc.
> That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session
> and
> I’ve got the glow.
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 19, 2005 at 9:49:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have 4 months today!!!viva le iboga!!

biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
Vector is right. Everytime I act nice and respectful thats just what I
get, NICE AND RESPECTFUL. When I play somewhere all I have to do is be
an asshole and I can get just about whatever I want. It’s just so hard
to be a dick these days. Just what the fuck is an artist anyway? This
shit it is getting deep. I wore a dress on stage a few times, what does
that make me? A freak? Who cares? I’m not an artist, I’m just a guy who
has played music all his life, and I do know that women are so hard to
figure out that I STILL at 47, am fucked when it comes to figuring out
how to treat them. Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way 😉

What this conversation really needs is Day Brown 🙂 Day are you out
there somewhere, you’re much better at the goddess is vastly superior
to me kick me in the balls while I grovel for the sins of all men, then
anyone 🙂

If I’ve offended anyone please don’t take me seriously, I’m having a
great 2 weeks 🙂

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet wrote:

> >What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
> want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
> you’re not getting laid.<
>
> LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as
> far from
> big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did
> before
> having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but
> still a
> lot.
>
> >Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want,
> but
> it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
> sexually.<
>
> At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all
> not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and
> cannot
> believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own
> experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of
> women,
> think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and
> yet, what
> would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped,
> etc.
> That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session
> and
> I’ve got the glow.
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 19, 2005 at 9:01:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector is right. Everytime I act nice and respectful thats just what I get, NICE AND RESPECTFUL. When I play somewhere all I have to do is be an asshole and I can get just about whatever I want. It’s just so hard to be a dick these days. Just what the fuck is an artist anyway? This shit it is getting deep. I wore a dress on stage a few times, what does that make me? A freak? Who cares? I’m not an artist, I’m just a guy who has played music all his life, and I do know that women are so hard to figure out that I STILL at 47, am fucked when it comes to figuring out how to treat them.         Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way 😉

What this conversation really needs is Day Brown 🙂 Day are you out
there somewhere, you’re much better at the goddess is vastly superior
to me kick me in the balls while I grovel for the sins of all men, then
anyone 🙂

If I’ve offended anyone please don’t take me seriously, I’m having a
great 2 weeks 🙂

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.<

LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as
far from
big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did
before
having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but
still a
lot.

>Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want,
but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.<

At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all
not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and
cannot
believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own
experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of
women,
think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and
yet, what
would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped,
etc.
That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session
and
I’ve got the glow.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 19, 2005 at 4:24:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I tried 2ct7 once, which is supposedly very similar, about 5 years ago
when it was still legal. The guy I got it from ran a website that sold
it, over in Switzerland or Austria or something, I am pretty sure it was
the real thing. I only had a mild dose, as it was the first time I tried
it. He had them in pill form and I just had 1. Was not very psychedelic,
more like mild ecstacy, with a bit of a speedy feeling. Was not
particularly impressed, but he did say you’d need 2 to feel the
psychedelic effects. That was in Zambia (solipse festival), have never
come across it since.

Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2005 12:12 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?

HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] 2ct-2?
Date: June 18, 2005 at 10:12:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI there,
Anyone on either the DrugWar or Ibogaine lists tried 2CT-2 yet?
Or ever? What was your impression if yes?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 10:09:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s ok, it’s going around……there’s some serious energy stuff going on
and it affects us directly…. our energy fields are taking a beating at the
moment, please fasten seat belts…..

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2005 11:05 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

I just emotional right now, thanks for tripping with me, if but for a
moment…

Until tomorrow,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:50 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

I hope I don’t inspire anyone to despair by my own frustrations, nor want to

sabatoge anyone else’s recovery with such pessimism. But Keith, if you do go

out, be careful please. You know the routine by now I imagine, but so too
did every single person I knew who suddenly couldn’t handle that one fucking

shot.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Thanks, I also am posting a lot and am under the axe a bit..I don’t mean to
stir the fire..I’m just new to this list and identify a bunch, I’m probably
done for now,I’m in need of “nepenthe” and just may seek it.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:24 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

xxxxIt’s one of the places where my girlfriend dj’s regularly, as do I- and
where they’ve got some of the only real genuine burlesque shows going- a
couple of the performers were on the bar for my last book release party.
That was tres cool.
😉
Yet even then, there was yet another instance where I’d done ibogaine and
yet by that point, only months later, I was hiding my shooting, again.
As happy as I was, I still felt a need to screw up.
Sigh.
Anyway, The Slipper Room is a cool little bar in LES, corner of Orchird and
Stanton, so if you’re even in the Apple, drop a line and I’ll let you know
if we’re there on Friday or Saturday night that weekend.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Preston,

What’s a Slipper Room?….don’t laugh…..ok..go ahead

Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently
posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing)
about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a
chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by
Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act
during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I
said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of
allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post
previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
“Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as
previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an
unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop.
Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to
me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.”
– – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3
debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its
first week.

Home

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching
policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about
2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed
in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was
staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American
citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia
announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with
B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory,
anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book
by Danny Goldberg?”
– – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s
ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and
leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma
diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a
fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana.
Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the
worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but
that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t
get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads
don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

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Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged.
(rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
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Articles are reprinted under Fair Use Doctrine of international copyright
law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 10:03:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow that be one heck of a big word Howard!!!! Thanks ;o)

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2005 1:53 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

In a message dated 6/18/05 9:50:05 PM, captkirk@free.net.nz writes:

What kind of pain management are we talking here?  Physical, emotional,
spiritual or mineral?

Chemical/pharmacotherapeutic plus whatever else ibogaine brings to the
picture.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:52:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/18/05 9:50:05 PM, captkirk@free.net.nz writes:

What kind of pain management are we talking here?  Physical, emotional,
spiritual or mineral?

Chemical/pharmacotherapeutic plus whatever else ibogaine brings to the
picture.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:51:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YAYYYY go Trent and NIN!!!!!!!  Man, I really love those guys and their sounds!!!!! Got me thru a few detoxes I can tell ya!!
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2005 9:16 a.m.
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing) about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
”Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop. Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.” 
- – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3 debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its first week.
http://www.nin.com

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about 2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory, anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book by Danny Goldberg?” 
- – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana. Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged. (rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
Articles are reprinted under Fair Use Doctrine of international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to original publisher.
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:49:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What kind of pain management are we talking here?  Physical, emotional, spiritual or mineral?
Kirk ;o)
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 10:01 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

ah but methadone for pain manegement is a total diferent thing….i think that trully is a bliss…i had a girl that used to take 300 mg of morhpine 4 times a day for fibromalagia and shit loads  for break through pain and was still hurting……i know when she got on a steady dose of methadone she was feeling million tmies better but meth for opiate maintaince ?????
and to that person who wants to show that “addiciton specialist ” something usefull how about the report by ehud bastians “life after ibogaine” that should inerest him…

Namaste
Matthew
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Vectors Rant
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:47:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So sorry you’ve been dumped so many times for big violent men.
;O) hope you get laid soon.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 6:41 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

I’m going to tread lightly so that angry feminists don’t get the idea
to lynch me.

All this is well and good but you’d be well advised to take women’s
studies 101 or even human sexuality 101. Male feminists make great
friends or token bodies at feminism meetings, but unless you are really
attracted to very fat angry women, none of them look like they ever get
any sex. What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.

You will get to listen to lots of hotties you have a crush on complain
about their asshole boyfriends, in the hope that you’ll finally get
laid, but all that will happen is she will move on to the next big
violent guy and you’ll have lots of conversations.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.

This is another of those the way the world should be but isn’t
conversations. You’re looking for the alan alda support group not
mindvox 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi rachel,
I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
that article right now.
I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
towards the feminine.
Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
awakened in men
they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
denial of that feminine or simply out of
ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
shadow imo.
I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
lack of awareness is
causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
Love to you
Lee

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
right now with our
spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
talks all the time
about how the principle of motherhood is something
to be awakened in
both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think
of when I think of
Goddess, but your mileage may vary.

She spoke last night about how the women of the
world are getting
super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
if we don’t watch
out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
the female
principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I
felt it in my gut
this morning when I read this New York Times column
by Nicholas
Kristof,

which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
Very upsetting.  It
made me imagine what would happen if all the women
in the world
refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
act, or stopped
cooking and making love and being the nurturers.

How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
about this story
months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like
this???  It’s not,
in other words, just about women getting in touch
with their inner
Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men
realizing they are fucking
themselves big time through the injuriou

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:41:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

:o)
As the saying goes “Prot a Noblem”
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 4:34 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

oh, oops, I see. Thanks, and thanks for the previous post too- you’ve given
me some cause for a smile, and I appreciate it.
It’s nice to hear your version or view of life.
Because you’re right, so very right, that to each their own.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Please ignore any messages from whatever is sending them…. I have
no idea why cos I get all mail, i get the mailbox full message too. I
have written to freenet to see what is up….. got an email today
saying my account has been suspended….. but it’s got an
attachment!!! So i aint touching it with a barge pole!!!
Heh…. that’s the trouble with reading/replying, reading/replying ya
get to the end of the messages and go Oh.  lol
It’s all good
Kirk :o)

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:46:58 -0400

wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these
replies
from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here
in NZ
I
have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on

it…are
doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be
alternatives
yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still
so much
education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across
the
board
is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk
today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All
I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s
free,
has
no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get
takeaways.
Well,
geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug
counsellor
and
the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for
a
medical.
Yeh, probly lucky.
LUFF LUFF LUFF
heh
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on

cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant,
but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
THAT GO
ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK
BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
DOPE TO
DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO
GET OFF
IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO
COMIND
DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–

all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can
get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN
Premium:
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:41:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Try the Ibogaine Dossier? By Howard Rat Bag!  I gave that to my drug
counsellor, haven’t seen her yet to see what she thought but I know she is
very interested in it.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

So, anyway, besides lending Dr Byrne the Rites of Passage DVD, what other
“evidence” or “research” can I send his way? I don’t want to just send him a
tonne of links that will lead him around in circles, and fail to breach his
bias barrier, only to confirm his belief the Ibogaine community is just a
bunch of delusional loonies. I think he is the kind of guy that gets excited
by lots of big numbers and percentages and dramatic graphs and pretty tables
and scientific Journal citations. Anything out there resembling such a
thing?

Boris

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is
close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from him (“Addict
in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in reception
is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of
H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the
experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat
to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am
really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a patient, I am
grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it seems he is
mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient.
Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book
and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance,
which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a good group
or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend some drugs
or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin, speed, addiction
relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions and ask mine
all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I was actually
on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day,
sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no
speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery
group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway
between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that
sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in
their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what he’d reccomend
for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought
he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve
been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have
been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I
have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract
and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are the studies?
These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40 years. Where
is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the
providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is some person
in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever that says
it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid
Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance
promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my
interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead
trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard
Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I have about
1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people
taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but he argues
that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that it works, he
says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in
it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was tested back in
the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I
continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to
squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an explanation of the
difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine,
the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from the medical
establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical companies..
I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and
even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me
out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his book
– he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or
if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the
surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed
patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading
addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to
say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction
treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset
thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about
ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I
also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell
not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may help sway
a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 7:45:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I just want to suggest that you stop feeling depressed and irritated.  You
are obviously taking ibogaine to stabilize opioid pain management and not to
stop opioid therapy.  Under those circumstances just look at ibogaine as an
adjunct to pain management.  If you begin to feel withdrawal you should take
opioids as I am sure you are doing to eliminate your withdrawal after the ibogaine
booster begins to wear off.

That you demonstrated ataxia from a 3 mg/kg dose of ibogaine is interesting
as I think most persons would not.  But, I would be interested in hearing from
the list as to effects of low/intermediate ibogaine doses (200 mg – 300 mg
total dose).  I anticipate you are in that dose range.

Howard

In a message dated 6/18/05 6:16:48 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

A 300 mic booster Howard, I think. It might only have been a 2.5, but I’m
pretty sure it was a 3.

I ate it on a completely empty stomach, drank shitloads of water, had to
pee about 40 times (who said that recently, that they had to keep getting up
to pee, and I kept thinking that this morning wobbling to the toilet as I
didn’t feel like peeing in the bucket), got definite trails, and wobbliness,
as mentioned, and felt great from about 5AM until about 12:30PM, then
withdrawals kicked in a bit and I started to get very depressed and
irritated, as you may be able to tell from previous messages.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine
Date: June 18, 2005 at 7:27:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/18/05 5:29:06 PM, VanAllK@sutterhealth.org writes:

I work around a lot of Doctors and none of them have even heard of ibogaine,
any thoughts on this?

Most doctors have no knowledge of experimental drugs.

Howard

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 7:05:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just emotional right now, thanks for tripping with me, if but for a moment…

Until tomorrow,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:50 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

I hope I don’t inspire anyone to despair by my own frustrations, nor want to
sabatoge anyone else’s recovery with such pessimism. But Keith, if you do go
out, be careful please. You know the routine by now I imagine, but so too
did every single person I knew who suddenly couldn’t handle that one fucking
shot.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Thanks, I also am posting a lot and am under the axe a bit..I don’t mean to
stir the fire..I’m just new to this list and identify a bunch, I’m probably
done for now,I’m in need of “nepenthe” and just may seek it.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:24 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

xxxxIt’s one of the places where my girlfriend dj’s regularly, as do I- and
where they’ve got some of the only real genuine burlesque shows going- a
couple of the performers were on the bar for my last book release party.
That was tres cool.
😉
Yet even then, there was yet another instance where I’d done ibogaine and
yet by that point, only months later, I was hiding my shooting, again.
As happy as I was, I still felt a need to screw up.
Sigh.
Anyway, The Slipper Room is a cool little bar in LES, corner of Orchird and
Stanton, so if you’re even in the Apple, drop a line and I’ll let you know
if we’re there on Friday or Saturday night that weekend.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Preston,

What’s a Slipper Room?….don’t laugh…..ok..go ahead

Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently
posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing)
about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a
chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by
Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act
during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I
said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of
allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post
previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
“Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as
previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an
unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop.
Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to
me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.”
– – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3
debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its
first week.

Home

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching
policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about
2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed
in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was
staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American
citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia
announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with
B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory,
anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book
by Danny Goldberg?”
– – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s
ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and
leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma
diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a
fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana.
Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the
worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but
that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t
get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads
don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

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Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged.
(rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
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law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:49:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hope I don’t inspire anyone to despair by my own frustrations, nor want to sabatoge anyone else’s recovery with such pessimism. But Keith, if you do go out, be careful please. You know the routine by now I imagine, but so too did every single person I knew who suddenly couldn’t handle that one fucking shot.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Thanks, I also am posting a lot and am under the axe a bit..I don’t mean to stir the fire..I’m just new to this list and identify a bunch, I’m probably done for now,I’m in need of “nepenthe” and just may seek it.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:24 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

xxxxIt’s one of the places where my girlfriend dj’s regularly, as do I- and
where they’ve got some of the only real genuine burlesque shows going- a
couple of the performers were on the bar for my last book release party.
That was tres cool.
😉
Yet even then, there was yet another instance where I’d done ibogaine and
yet by that point, only months later, I was hiding my shooting, again.
As happy as I was, I still felt a need to screw up.
Sigh.
Anyway, The Slipper Room is a cool little bar in LES, corner of Orchird and
Stanton, so if you’re even in the Apple, drop a line and I’ll let you know
if we’re there on Friday or Saturday night that weekend.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Preston,

What’s a Slipper Room?….don’t laugh…..ok..go ahead

Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently
posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing)
about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a
chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by
Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act
during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I
said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of
allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post
previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
“Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as
previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an
unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop.
Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to
me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.”
– – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3
debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its
first week.

Home

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching
policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about
2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed
in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was
staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American
citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia
announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with
B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory,
anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book
by Danny Goldberg?”
– – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s
ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and
leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma
diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a
fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana.
Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the
worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but
that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t
get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads
don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

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Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged.
(rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
Articles are reprinted under Fair Use Doctrine of international copyright
law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to
original publisher.
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:43:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, I also am posting a lot and am under the axe a bit..I don’t mean to stir the fire..I’m just new to this list and identify a bunch, I’m probably done for now,I’m in need of “nepenthe” and just may seek it.

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:24 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

xxxxIt’s one of the places where my girlfriend dj’s regularly, as do I- and
where they’ve got some of the only real genuine burlesque shows going- a
couple of the performers were on the bar for my last book release party.
That was tres cool.
😉
Yet even then, there was yet another instance where I’d done ibogaine and
yet by that point, only months later, I was hiding my shooting, again.
As happy as I was, I still felt a need to screw up.
Sigh.
Anyway, The Slipper Room is a cool little bar in LES, corner of Orchird and
Stanton, so if you’re even in the Apple, drop a line and I’ll let you know
if we’re there on Friday or Saturday night that weekend.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Preston,

What’s a Slipper Room?….don’t laugh…..ok..go ahead

Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently
posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing)
about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a
chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by
Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act
during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I
said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of
allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post
previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
“Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as
previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an
unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop.
Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to
me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.”
– – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3
debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its
first week.

Home

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching
policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about
2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed
in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was
staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American
citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia
announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with
B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory,
anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book
by Danny Goldberg?”
– – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s
ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and
leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma
diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a
fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana.
Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the
worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but
that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t
get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads
don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged.
(rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-
Articles are reprinted under Fair Use Doctrine of international copyright
law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to
original publisher.
-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:43:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

just caught myself thinking as I flushed the pee-filled toilet, “oops, I shoulda saved that.”
😉

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine

up to you to learn them Keith.
Tell them, point them towards websites, alert them to yet another option for patients to AT THE LEAST get through withdrawals in the most beautiful way I’ve yet found.
Fuck the rest of it. As much as I respect Andrew Byrne, I’m appalled at his and others’ attitudes towards ibogaine. It’s not a magic bullet and those who claim otherwise are deluded. It’s a fucking tool that I have found useful for getting off opiates- not staying off in anyway, shape or form- but GETTING off was the best way ever. The rest is up to me really, or so I would imagine except I keep getting all depressed and puzzled as to the WHY I don’t take myself at my word ever in this regard, so who knows if it’s really up to me. Come to think of it, I do NOT think it’s up to me, I think it’s up to the fact I was introduced to opiates at a pretty young age, went through the whole, “you should wait for your next shot another hour/half hour” when asking nurses for shots early even way back then, still in the hospital with my stomach split open, illiostomy bags everywhere and more pain than I knew what to do with. Yet I still had to argue with the nurse, “you’re going to get addicted.” SO fucking what bitch, you see my innards through that incision line? Fuck you, give me a shot.” That attitude as stayed, firmly imbedded in my brain and psychy- I know what helps my pain issues- opiates.
Boy am I going on a lot right now today. Please excuse my multiple posts, I don’t really expect any answers, I’m mainly venting frustrations and thoughts both.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine

I work around a lot of Doctors and none of them have even heard of ibogaine, any thoughts on this?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:35:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way ;)<

My biggest smile of the day, thanks Vec.
Boy do I remember the ‘eating sheets of acid in two, three or four days’ days. Maybe my brain IS always melting, (but I’m certainly not as good as Patrick is at actually WRITING that way) and that’s part of the issue here with me today, I’m simply going through brain melt and withdrawals both. Hmmm. Actually, I’ve now eaten a couple of my ms-contins so am beginning to feel somewhat better physically, but not mentally really, except for the above, which did give me cause to grin. Well said Vec, well said.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way 😉

What this conversation really needs is Day Brown 🙂 Day are you out
there somewhere, you’re much better at the goddess is vastly superior
to me kick me in the balls while I grovel for the sins of all men, then
anyone 🙂

If I’ve offended anyone please don’t take me seriously, I’m having a
great 2 weeks 🙂

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.<

LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as
far from
big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did
before
having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but
still a
lot.

>Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want,
but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.<

At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all
not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and
cannot
believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own
experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of
women,
think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and
yet, what
would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped,
etc.
That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session
and
I’ve got the glow.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:33:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know you and yet I understand you in a huge way, I come from a long line of users and abusers, my big brother was found face down in a parking lot a couple of weeks ago and just after getting out of the hospital was back at it again, he is only 40ish and will probably not live another year, I have promised myself and everybody else more times than I will admit and sworn on things SOOO sacred…I still live on the edge of it all the time and still use, thats the worst part, that in the back of my head the itch is there even in the very best of times.

I wish I could change it for you, I wish I could change it for everyone, but there aren’t any answers that I know of..just keep your head above water..even the worst shit eventually fades at least a little.

The blind leading the blind,

with much respect and empathy,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:16 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

A 300 mic booster Howard, I think. It might only have been a 2.5, but I’m
pretty sure it was a 3.
I ate it on a completely empty stomach, drank shitloads of water, had to pee
about 40 times (who said that recently, that they had to keep getting up to
pee, and I kept thinking that this morning wobbling to the toilet as I
didn’t feel like peeing in the bucket), got definite trails, and wobbliness,
as mentioned, and felt great from about 5AM until about 12:30PM, then
withdrawals kicked in a bit and I started to get very depressed and
irritated, as you may be able to tell from previous messages.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

In a message dated 6/18/05 12:34:46 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I ate my last ibo booster this morning, and felt it/feel it very well.
It definitely helped. Now, where do I get a steady supply of those I
wonder?
I’m a bit wobbly believe it or not from sucha small dose, so I”m going
back to bed now. ‘Specially having gotten in at 4:40 this morning.
Again, thanks tink.

Hi Preston,

What was the dose?

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:30:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

up to you to learn them Keith.
Tell them, point them towards websites, alert them to yet another option for patients to AT THE LEAST get through withdrawals in the most beautiful way I’ve yet found.
Fuck the rest of it. As much as I respect Andrew Byrne, I’m appalled at his and others’ attitudes towards ibogaine. It’s not a magic bullet and those who claim otherwise are deluded. It’s a fucking tool that I have found useful for getting off opiates- not staying off in anyway, shape or form- but GETTING off was the best way ever. The rest is up to me really, or so I would imagine except I keep getting all depressed and puzzled as to the WHY I don’t take myself at my word ever in this regard, so who knows if it’s really up to me. Come to think of it, I do NOT think it’s up to me, I think it’s up to the fact I was introduced to opiates at a pretty young age, went through the whole, “you should wait for your next shot another hour/half hour” when asking nurses for shots early even way back then, still in the hospital with my stomach split open, illiostomy bags everywhere and more pain than I knew what to do with. Yet I still had to argue with the nurse, “you’re going to get addicted.” SO fucking what bitch, you see my innards through that incision line? Fuck you, give me a shot.” That attitude as stayed, firmly imbedded in my brain and psychy- I know what helps my pain issues- opiates.
Boy am I going on a lot right now today. Please excuse my multiple posts, I don’t really expect any answers, I’m mainly venting frustrations and thoughts both.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine

I work around a lot of Doctors and none of them have even heard of ibogaine, any thoughts on this?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:23:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

xxxxIt’s one of the places where my girlfriend dj’s regularly, as do I- and where they’ve got some of the only real genuine burlesque shows going- a couple of the performers were on the bar for my last book release party. That was tres cool.
😉
Yet even then, there was yet another instance where I’d done ibogaine and yet by that point, only months later, I was hiding my shooting, again.
As happy as I was, I still felt a need to screw up.
Sigh.
Anyway, The Slipper Room is a cool little bar in LES, corner of Orchird and Stanton, so if you’re even in the Apple, drop a line and I’ll let you know if we’re there on Friday or Saturday night that weekend.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: VanAllen, Keith G.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

Preston,

What’s a Slipper Room?….don’t laugh…..ok..go ahead

Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing) about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
“Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop. Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.”
– – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3 debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its first week.

Home

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about 2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory, anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book by Danny Goldberg?”
– – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana. Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

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Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged. (rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:16:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A 300 mic booster Howard, I think. It might only have been a 2.5, but I’m pretty sure it was a 3.
I ate it on a completely empty stomach, drank shitloads of water, had to pee about 40 times (who said that recently, that they had to keep getting up to pee, and I kept thinking that this morning wobbling to the toilet as I didn’t feel like peeing in the bucket), got definite trails, and wobbliness, as mentioned, and felt great from about 5AM until about 12:30PM, then withdrawals kicked in a bit and I started to get very depressed and irritated, as you may be able to tell from previous messages.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

In a message dated 6/18/05 12:34:46 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I ate my last ibo booster this morning, and felt it/feel it very well.
It definitely helped. Now, where do I get a steady supply of those I wonder?
I’m a bit wobbly believe it or not from sucha small dose, so I”m going
back to bed now. ‘Specially having gotten in at 4:40 this morning.
Again, thanks tink.

Hi Preston,

What was the dose?

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:13:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and where do I get bigger boosters without getting arrested and being charged an arm and a leg for them. I mean it. Anyone want a new roommate in some other country where I won’t have to be prosecuted, can work legally, and do what I need to do without GUILT or SHAME, one who never knows if he’s going to need a rig or no…’scuse me, I take that part back.
Seriously, someone, this is ridiculous. That teeny booster helped for the first half of today, and since climbing out of bed I feel miserable, like total shit, and in withdrawals. Didn’t I just fucking go through this all too recently, paying a HUGE fucking sum of money (according to my budget) to get myself back down to managable levels?
Why do I have so much trouble keeping my self-promises of improving healthy living? What in the fuck is going on in me, and in so many others? Do you all know how DEEPLY I fear going to prison for drug use someday, or even just back to jail? And I can see those days coming still, even with as much progress as the potheads have made. Yet I don’t see many of us successfully pulling off the clean routine all that long. We do it for a while, we make everyone around us “so proud of you” then we destroy it all, again and again and again.
Damnit, I’m exactly how I’m supposed to be, and feel like shit about it. What gives?
Anyone got “the” answer for me, or is everyone else just as fucking clueless as me?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Thanks Tink.
I ate my last ibo booster this morning, and felt it/feel it very well. It definitely helped. Now, where do I get a steady supply of those I wonder?
I’m a bit wobbly believe it or not from sucha small dose, so I”m going back to bed now. ‘Specially having gotten in at 4:40 this morning.
Again, thanks tink.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Preston,
I can feel you all the way up here, and I know exactly what you mean.
I have my days when, as a fellow chronic pain and nerve damaged
individual, when I miss the clinic quite a bit.  I was more productive
on suboxone, however, but remain unclear on whether or not I think
either of them are worth the cost, for me personally, anyway.
Harm reduction indeed, and how quickly I forget how glad i was to get
on the clinic in the first place.  I suppose my aggrevation comes from
knowing how hard we all have to fight for the right to lead a life of
any sort of quality (what form that quality comes in being entirely up
to the individual), and how difficult it is to rebuild and restructure
while trying to get and stay off of all dope, government and
otherwise.  If everyone had the advantages I have had in my recovery
with the double ibogaine treatments, I suppose I would feel better
about hearing a friend had just started the clinic for the very first
time, instead of getting that queasy feeling , as if the bottom just
dropped out of their life and I got to see it.
Regardless, I hear the aggrevation in your voice, loud and clear, and
I’m sending you tons of love and comfort, and maybe a little serenity,
if I can find it around here, somewhere.
My love to you,
tink

and Boris…kudos to you for all of your voice of reason in a
definatively unreasonable world.  Hope you and Mandy are doing well,
and i send you my love as well.
Keep posting, we all need it!!
love again,
tink

On 6/18/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
oh, oops, I see. Thanks, and thanks for the previous post too- you’ve given
me some cause for a smile, and I appreciate it.
It’s nice to hear your version or view of life.
Because you’re right, so very right, that to each their own.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Please ignore any messages from whatever is sending them…. I have
no idea why cos I get all mail, i get the mailbox full message too. I
have written to freenet to see what is up….. got an email today
saying my account has been suspended….. but it’s got an
attachment!!! So i aint touching it with a barge pole!!!
Heh…. that’s the trouble with reading/replying, reading/replying ya
get to the end of the messages and go Oh.  lol
It’s all good
Kirk :o)

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:46:58 -0400

>wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
>Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these
>replies
>from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
>;-))
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often
>mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations,
>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
>cocaine
>anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>
>
>> Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here
>in NZ
>> I
>> have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on
>
>> it…are
>> doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be
>> alternatives
>> yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still
>so much
>> education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across
>the
>> board
>> is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk
>today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> All
>> I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s
>free,
>> has
>> no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get
>takeaways.
>> Well,
>> geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
>> elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug
>counsellor
>> and
>> the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for
>a
>> medical.
>> Yeh, probly lucky.
>> LUFF LUFF LUFF
>> heh
>> Kirk xxxxxx
>>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
>
>> cocaine
>> anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>>
>> geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
>> I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant,
>but
>> fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
>> call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
>> I hate the shit.
>> i love you!!
>> tink
>> On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> FULL OF SHIT!!!!!
>>>
>>> METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON
>>>
>>> THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
>THAT GO
>> ON
>>> METHADONE ARE
>>>
>>> 1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
>NEED TO
>>> SCORE
>>>
>>> 2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK
>BEGINS AND
>>> THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
>DOPE TO
>> DO
>>> IT
>>>
>>> 3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO
>GET OFF
>>> IT
>>
>>>
>>> ——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO
>COMIND
>>> DOWN
>>> FROM THIS SHIT—–
>>>
>>> all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can
>get on
>>> methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
>the
>>> college of physians and there u go ……u are cured
>>>
>>> fuk em all!!!!1 n
>>>
>>> NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
>> SPECIALISTS”
>>> vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
>methadone
>>>
>>> fuck!!!!
>>>
>>> NO LOVE IN THIS POST
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Namaste
>>> Matthew
>>> ________________________________
>>> Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN
>Premium:
>> Join
>>> now and get the first two months FREE*
>>>
>>
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:58:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now I Just have two lives…and hope the one doesn’t swallow the other…Its a hard fight and I’m exhausted..when I can’t hack it I check myself in, but it seems reform for me just means that I am recovering from a beating and somewhere deep in the back of my soul…as you say the clock ticks…<

Keith, almost every single one of those who’ve found themselves “addicted” I HONESTLY BELIEVE are going to ALWAYS being going through this, the clean ups and downs, and dirty ups and downs too. I Hear you loud and clear, I think. I’m going through my own suicidal depressive black state at the moment. I think of the people who’ve made it five years, who’ve I’ve known previously with years under the fucking belts who still do not “stay” clean forever, no matter HOW optimistic they are. I saw my old running friend Marcus the other morning, back in NYC again, after posting here from Florida a couple times clean, where he was fucking MISERABLE. So, now he’s living on the streets of NYC again, LES, and shooting shitloads of cocaine and heroin again- and was treated with ibogaine a second time, (at provider loss actually- go provider, whom I love with all my heart actually, platonically of course) about a week ago. He helped me cop something as I was low on pills, again, ALREADY. ARGH!
As soon as I see, read (or fucking hear myself) start with the “oh gosh life is grand and I’m ‘clean’ now,” bullshit, I fucking flat out cringe, because how many fucking times am I going to hear it, from people in rooms, from the ibogaine list, from the rational recovery folk (actually, I like them, not that I don’t like the others too, as much cringing as I find myself doing, and self-beating/deprecating/abuse I do) rapid detox, methadone, EVERYBODY, the same fucking bullshit over and over- “this time damnit, no more, I’m finished, never again,” only to eventually loose track of them, they fucking die in a bathroom shooting up or fall out a freakin window after all their optimism.
Gosh, sorry all, I’m really worked up and not really all that cheerful.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I live in the States right now….in California, where I crash landed, got married, and had a kid, I then became acutely aware that I was now on a different playing field, someone had f-ing switched the rules on me, and now if I just fixed my engine and flew away then I would hurting a little kid. I was abandoned at a very young age (like 7) and now as I sat looking out the window thinking of leaving I realized that one reason “I Rode the Horse” was that I was killing the pain. People have a way of hurting the next generation in the same way they were hurt. I couldn’t leave my little Nicky to feel the same hole I had inside.

Now I Just have two lives…and hope the one doesn’t swallow the other…Its a hard fight and I’m exhausted..when I can’t hack it I check myself in, but it seems reform for me just means that I am recovering from a beating and somewhere deep in the back of my soul…as you say the clock ticks…

terrified of myself,

Keith

ps# sorry for all the metaphors…it helps mask the shame I guess. One day I’ll write a “to be brutally honest” post…I’m numb to most of it anyway.

Pss# I just thought that I’m being extremely grimm right now cause it’s 7 am here and I haven’t slept…woops..I’ll lighten up, with the sky. :}

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:14 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

Hey Keith!!  Love the feral cat line, lol yep know that feeling too, but all
in good time aye (tick tock tick tock tick tock, chew finger nails to the
quick look at the calendar, tick tock tick tock)
Can I ask what part of the world you reside in?
I’m in New Zealand, south Island (and anyone is welcome to come stay…:o) )
So it’s a long way to go to find a provider (looking sideways at Jasen!!!
HURRYYYY  YUPPPPPPPPPPPP!! Lol)

Kirk xx

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 2:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I can relate to you on a general…I’ve been in the hole and climbed back
out more times than I care to admit..kinda way. I haven’t been treated with
Ibo and where I live may not have the opportunity unless I can afford a 1200
dollar adventure and a week worth of travel…ok…no excuses…I understand
because I have been through the getting well process a lot. Right now I am
not as well as I could be…I just keep telling myself that I am a highly
functional addict…truth is for me it’s a roller coaster that I want off,
like a bunch of other people I wish Ibogaine would sneak through my door and
pounce on me like a redeeming feral cat, but I know I got to go to it on my
own…..anyway I’m just empathizing with ya.

Hope you feel better soon,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

Thankyou…good analogy.  now if I could only move :]
And yes, the aches and pains are a drag and a half.  It hasn’t stopped
raining in a week, so add allergies and humidity to the mix, and i am
in soup mode.
There is no tub, and the showers have to be short thanks to a flooded
septic system.  Urgh.
how long till you felt “right?”  the first time i went through
treatment with ibogaine, I wasn’t nearly this wiped out.  I must be
getting oooooollllllldddd…..
love
tink

On 6/16/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of
aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they say,
as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the
bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest
bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t
calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate and
grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread their
wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore as
hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:35:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You don’t count Preston, your an artist. Neither does Patrick, because
beside fuck this and fuck that, he’s a artist. Artists have transcended
the usual limitations by being total whackos, no rules apply.
Especially not to men who wear more earrings then most women and let’s
not talk about dresses 🙂 Everyone who is artistic can ignore what I
said, even more if you’re wasted on drugs and artistic, that’s cooler
than being in a frat or fake macho 😉 It’s almost as good as being a
successful white rapper but not quite because you’re not rich on the
other side you score points if you’re done so many psychedelics your
brain is always melting and you can write about it in that way 😉

What this conversation really needs is Day Brown 🙂 Day are you out
there somewhere, you’re much better at the goddess is vastly superior
to me kick me in the balls while I grovel for the sins of all men, then
anyone 🙂

If I’ve offended anyone please don’t take me seriously, I’m having a
great 2 weeks 🙂

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.<

LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as
far from
big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did
before
having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but
still a
lot.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want,
but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.<

At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all
not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and
cannot
believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own
experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of
women,
think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and
yet, what
would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped,
etc.
That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session
and
I’ve got the glow.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Doctors and Ibogaine
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:28:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I work around a lot of Doctors and none of them have even heard of ibogaine, any thoughts on this?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:24:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I got Dana to buy a book about ibogaine for my pain specialist but can’t remember the title now.
Anyone remember that thread after my first session?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

ah but methadone for pain manegement is a total diferent thing….i think that trully is a bliss…i had a girl that used to take 300 mg of morhpine 4 times a day for fibromalagia and shit loads  for break through pain and was still hurting……i know when she got on a steady dose of methadone she was feeling million tmies better but meth for opiate maintaince ?????
and to that person who wants to show that “addiciton specialist ” something usefull how about the report by ehud bastians “life after ibogaine” that should inerest him…

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:22:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.<

LOL, boy do you have a strange perspective of things. I’m about as far from big or violent (on most occasions), but I get laid a LOT, and did before having along term relationship too, only now do it monogamously, but still a lot.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.<

At rick of reiterating and beating my own drug Vec, I am NOT at all not-nice. As a matter of fact, most find me to be very nice, and cannot believe you have the perspective you do when I think about my own experiences with the opposite sex. I also respect the hell out of women, think they’re equal to me in most all regards, if not better, and yet, what would you know, I still get approached, hit upon, asked out, groped, etc.
That is even when on LOTS of opiates, much less after an ibo session and I’ve got the glow.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

I’m going to tread lightly so that angry feminists don’t get the idea
to lynch me.

All this is well and good but you’d be well advised to take women’s
studies 101 or even human sexuality 101. Male feminists make great
friends or token bodies at feminism meetings, but unless you are really
attracted to very fat angry women, none of them look like they ever get
any sex. What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.

You will get to listen to lots of hotties you have a crush on complain
about their asshole boyfriends, in the hope that you’ll finally get
laid, but all that will happen is she will move on to the next big
violent guy and you’ll have lots of conversations.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.

This is another of those the way the world should be but isn’t
conversations. You’re looking for the alan alda support group not
mindvox 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi rachel,
I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
that article right now.
I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
towards the feminine.
Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
awakened in men
they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
denial of that feminine or simply out of
ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
shadow imo.
I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
lack of awareness is
causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
Love to you
Lee

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
> right now with our
> spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
> talks all the time
> about how the principle of motherhood is something
> to be awakened in
> both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think
> of when I think of
> Goddess, but your mileage may vary.
>
> She spoke last night about how the women of the
> world are getting
> super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
> if we don’t watch
> out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
> the female
> principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I
> felt it in my gut
> this morning when I read this New York Times column
> by Nicholas
> Kristof,
>
>

>
>
> which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
> Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
> now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
> Very upsetting.  It
> made me imagine what would happen if all the women
> in the world
> refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
> act, or stopped
> cooking and making love and being the nurturers.
>
> How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
> about this story
> months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like
> this???  It’s not,
> in other words, just about women getting in touch
> with their inner
> Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men
> realizing they are fucking
> themselves big time through the injuriou

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:19:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

What’s a Slipper Room?….don’t laugh…..ok..go ahead

Keith
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM
To: drugwar@mindvox.com; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing) about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
”Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop. Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.” 
- – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3 debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its first week.
http://www.nin.com

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about 2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory, anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book by Danny Goldberg?” 
- – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana. Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

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Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged. (rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
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Articles are reprinted under Fair Use Doctrine of international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to original publisher.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Go Trent Reznor
Date: June 18, 2005 at 5:15:42 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry all,
can’t remember which of these lists was the one where someone recently posted news (to which I say thanks as I ran right our an bought the thing) about NIN’s new cd.

I got in a bit of a heated argument last night at the Slipper Room, with a chick who does makeup for MTV shows and specials, who wasn’t impressed by Trent’s insistance on having that huge anti-Bush poster behind his act during the MTV Awards show coming up. So he back out. “Good for him,” I said, and she came back with some idiocy, so I laughed at her instead of allowing myself to really go off the handle and walked away.
wellness to all and I forward the below note in light of that NIN post previously mentioned.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: RhinosBlog@kifaru.com
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

Rhino’s Blog lives at: http://www.rhinosblog.info

RHINO’S WEEKEND BLOG – June 18 & 19, 2005

THE QUOTE:
”Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as previously announced. We were set to perform ‘The Hand That Feeds’ with an unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop. Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America.” 
- – Trent Reznor

THE MUSIC VIDEO: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
“With Teeth”, the 4th studio album from Nine Inch Nails, was released May 3 debuting at #1 on the Billboard Top 200, selling over 270,000 copies in its first week.
http://www.nin.com

THE LYRICS: “The Hand That Feeds” by Nine Inch Nails
http://www.lyriczz.com/lyriczz.php?songid=16424

THE HISTORY:
June 18th, 2001- Gothenburg, Sweden
At precisely 4.08pm, amid smirks & bemused giggles from a row of watching policemen, a small brass band burst into sound & gave the signal for about 2,000 naked buttocks (attached to 1000 anti-shrub protestors) to be pointed in the direction of the SAS Radisson hotel where the US President was staying. American news editors worked overtime to keep the American citizenry from seeing the photo.
June 19th, 1987 — Ben & Jerry Ice Cream & the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia announce a new ice-cream flavor, Cherry Garcia. (Rhino’s favorite, alog with B&J’s Half Baked.)

THE BOOK TIP: “How the Left Lost Teen Spirit” by Danny Goldberg
Years from now, if the Democrats have long faded from American memory, anthropologists and historians will ask, “Didn’t any of them read this book by Danny Goldberg?” 
- – Michael Moore
http://www.akashicbooks.com/howtheleft.htm

THE ANIMATION: “Packing Heat” by Mark Fiore
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/heat.html

THE CARTOON: “Downing Street Memo” By Nick Andorsen
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050614/nick.jpg

THE AUDIO FILE: “Deep Throat” by The Capitol Steps
http://www.capsteps.com

RHINO’S BOTTOM LINE
Reefer Absurdity – Supreme Court ruling on pot is sheer madness
by Will Durst, Working For Change, 6/9/05

In its finite wisdom, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Government’s ban on Medical Marijuana — screwing all ten states that legalized it and leaving a lot of folks in those ten states with superfluous Glaucoma diagnoses…

… Why do politicians always insist on lumping all drugs together? Even a fourth grader can tell you that crack is to pot like an Uzi is to a banana. Crack: kills. Pot: giggles. Say you do run into a crazed pothead: what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen to you? Okay, you might get fleas, but that’s about it. So there’s Twinkie Cream on your shirt, wipe it off. Can’t get the song, “Stairway to Heaven” out of your head, deal with it. Potheads don’t mug, they hug. The same can not be said about the Supreme Court.

MORE AT: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19173

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Rhino’s Blog is the responsibility of Gary Rhine.
Feedback & requests to be added or deleted from the list are encouraged. (rhino@kifaru.com)
See The Latest Greatest Political Cartoons
While You Read Rhino’s Blog AT : http://www.rhinosblog.info

Rhino’s Other Web Sites:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org (Indigenous Assistance & Intercultural Dialog)
http://www.kifaru.com (Native American Relations Video Documentaries)
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Articles are reprinted under Fair Use Doctrine of international copyright law.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html All copyrights belong to original publisher.
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From: MrPure@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 18, 2005 at 2:03:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tink,
I just read an email from you about after Ibo feelings and I just wanted to tell you that it was at least 2 weeks after the treatment that I started feeling anywhere close to normal and an additional week after that when I started really feeling back!  But I always knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak, and that helped me thru the tough times.
I read most of the emails on the list but I’m a few days behind so I hope this email finds you much better. Good luck.
peace
James
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 18, 2005 at 1:22:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was the HSV-II test positive , BEFORE YOU TOOK IBOGAINE. Ibo boosts the immune system but will not totally kill the virus as it lives in the nervous system. You levels may have fallen below the labs cutoff level.

Either way, it’s all good news.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 1:19:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i love you preston ;]

On 6/18/05, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 6/18/05 12:34:46 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I ate my last ibo booster this morning, and felt it/feel it very well.
It definitely helped. Now, where do I get a steady supply of those I wonder?
I’m a bit wobbly believe it or not from sucha small dose, so I”m going
back to bed now. ‘Specially having gotten in at 4:40 this morning.
Again, thanks tink.

Hi Preston,

What was the dose?

Howard

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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Mamma
Date: June 18, 2005 at 12:48:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mamma, send me a note so I have your E mail address. I can’t remember what it is. I’ll get back with ya.     Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:27:56 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: DBMAIL: delivery failure

This is what I was talking about Cpt. Kirk.
But I note it in the nicest most friendly fashion possible, not being a prick about it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <MAILER-DAEMON@ceres.concept.net.nz>
To: <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure

> This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program.
>
> I’m sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to captkirk,
> could not be delivered due to the following error.
>
> *** Mailbox of user captkirk is FULL ***
>
> If you think this message is incorrect please contact > postmaster@concept.net.nz.
>
> Header of your message follows…
>
>
> — header of your message —
> Received: (qmail 7546 invoked by uid 502); 18 Jun 2005 03:43:48 -0000
> Received: from mindvox.com (HELO serenity.mindvox.com) (64.124.179.119)
> by ceres.concept.net.nz with SMTP; 18 Jun 2005 03:43:48 -0000
> Received: (qmail 27526 invoked by alias); 18 Jun 2005 03:20:09 -0000
> Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Precedence: bulk
> X-No-Archive: yes
> List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
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> Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Received: (qmail 27516 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2005 03:20:09 -0000
> Message-ID: <00b001c573b7$de4dd7a0$a0896c42@Prestonsoffice>
> From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> References: <BAY102-F33A729C8AD022228411ACAFF40@phx.gbl>
> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:19 -0400
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> format=flowed;
> charset=”iso-8859-1″;
> reply-type=response
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>
> — end of header —
>
>
>
> .

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 12:36:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/18/05 12:34:46 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I ate my last ibo booster this morning, and felt it/feel it very well.
It definitely helped. Now, where do I get a steady supply of those I wonder?
I’m a bit wobbly believe it or not from sucha small dose, so I”m going
back to bed now. ‘Specially having gotten in at 4:40 this morning.
Again, thanks tink.

Hi Preston,

What was the dose?

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 12:34:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Tink.
I ate my last ibo booster this morning, and felt it/feel it very well. It definitely helped. Now, where do I get a steady supply of those I wonder?
I’m a bit wobbly believe it or not from sucha small dose, so I”m going back to bed now. ‘Specially having gotten in at 4:40 this morning.
Again, thanks tink.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Preston,
I can feel you all the way up here, and I know exactly what you mean.
I have my days when, as a fellow chronic pain and nerve damaged
individual, when I miss the clinic quite a bit.  I was more productive
on suboxone, however, but remain unclear on whether or not I think
either of them are worth the cost, for me personally, anyway.
Harm reduction indeed, and how quickly I forget how glad i was to get
on the clinic in the first place.  I suppose my aggrevation comes from
knowing how hard we all have to fight for the right to lead a life of
any sort of quality (what form that quality comes in being entirely up
to the individual), and how difficult it is to rebuild and restructure
while trying to get and stay off of all dope, government and
otherwise.  If everyone had the advantages I have had in my recovery
with the double ibogaine treatments, I suppose I would feel better
about hearing a friend had just started the clinic for the very first
time, instead of getting that queasy feeling , as if the bottom just
dropped out of their life and I got to see it.
Regardless, I hear the aggrevation in your voice, loud and clear, and
I’m sending you tons of love and comfort, and maybe a little serenity,
if I can find it around here, somewhere.
My love to you,
tink

and Boris…kudos to you for all of your voice of reason in a
definatively unreasonable world.  Hope you and Mandy are doing well,
and i send you my love as well.
Keep posting, we all need it!!
love again,
tink

On 6/18/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
oh, oops, I see. Thanks, and thanks for the previous post too- you’ve given
me some cause for a smile, and I appreciate it.
It’s nice to hear your version or view of life.
Because you’re right, so very right, that to each their own.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Please ignore any messages from whatever is sending them…. I have
no idea why cos I get all mail, i get the mailbox full message too. I
have written to freenet to see what is up….. got an email today
saying my account has been suspended….. but it’s got an
attachment!!! So i aint touching it with a barge pole!!!
Heh…. that’s the trouble with reading/replying, reading/replying ya
get to the end of the messages and go Oh.  lol
It’s all good
Kirk :o)

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:46:58 -0400

>wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
>Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these
>replies
>from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
>;-))
>
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often
>mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations,
>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
>cocaine
>anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>
>
>> Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here
>in NZ
>> I
>> have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on
>
>> it…are
>> doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be
>> alternatives
>> yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still
>so much
>> education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across
>the
>> board
>> is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk
>today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> All
>> I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s
>free,
>> has
>> no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get
>takeaways.
>> Well,
>> geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
>> elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug
>counsellor
>> and
>> the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for
>a
>> medical.
>> Yeh, probly lucky.
>> LUFF LUFF LUFF
>> heh
>> Kirk xxxxxx
>>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
>
>> cocaine
>> anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>>
>> geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
>> I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant,
>but
>> fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
>> call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
>> I hate the shit.
>> i love you!!
>> tink
>> On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> FULL OF SHIT!!!!!
>>>
>>> METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON
>>>
>>> THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
>THAT GO
>> ON
>>> METHADONE ARE
>>>
>>> 1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
>NEED TO
>>> SCORE
>>>
>>> 2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK
>BEGINS AND
>>> THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
>DOPE TO
>> DO
>>> IT
>>>
>>> 3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO
>GET OFF
>>> IT
>>
>>>
>>> ——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO
>COMIND
>>> DOWN
>>> FROM THIS SHIT—–
>>>
>>> all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can
>get on
>>> methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
>the
>>> college of physians and there u go ……u are cured
>>>
>>> fuk em all!!!!1 n
>>>
>>> NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
>> SPECIALISTS”
>>> vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
>methadone
>>>
>>> fuck!!!!
>>>
>>> NO LOVE IN THIS POST
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Namaste
>>> Matthew
>>> ________________________________
>>> Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN
>Premium:
>> Join
>>> now and get the first two months FREE*
>>>
>>
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 18, 2005 at 9:54:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I live in the States right now….in California, where I crash landed, got married, and had a kid, I then became acutely aware that I was now on a different playing field, someone had f-ing switched the rules on me, and now if I just fixed my engine and flew away then I would hurting a little kid. I was abandoned at a very young age (like 7) and now as I sat looking out the window thinking of leaving I realized that one reason “I Rode the Horse” was that I was killing the pain. People have a way of hurting the next generation in the same way they were hurt. I couldn’t leave my little Nicky to feel the same hole I had inside.

Now I Just have two lives…and hope the one doesn’t swallow the other…Its a hard fight and I’m exhausted..when I can’t hack it I check myself in, but it seems reform for me just means that I am recovering from a beating and somewhere deep in the back of my soul…as you say the clock ticks…

terrified of myself,

Keith

ps# sorry for all the metaphors…it helps mask the shame I guess. One day I’ll write a “to be brutally honest” post…I’m numb to most of it anyway.

Pss# I just thought that I’m being extremely grimm right now cause it’s 7 am here and I haven’t slept…woops..I’ll lighten up, with the sky. :}

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:14 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

Hey Keith!!  Love the feral cat line, lol yep know that feeling too, but all
in good time aye (tick tock tick tock tick tock, chew finger nails to the
quick look at the calendar, tick tock tick tock)
Can I ask what part of the world you reside in?
I’m in New Zealand, south Island (and anyone is welcome to come stay…:o) )
So it’s a long way to go to find a provider (looking sideways at Jasen!!!
HURRYYYY  YUPPPPPPPPPPPP!! Lol)

Kirk xx

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 2:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I can relate to you on a general…I’ve been in the hole and climbed back
out more times than I care to admit..kinda way. I haven’t been treated with
Ibo and where I live may not have the opportunity unless I can afford a 1200
dollar adventure and a week worth of travel…ok…no excuses…I understand
because I have been through the getting well process a lot. Right now I am
not as well as I could be…I just keep telling myself that I am a highly
functional addict…truth is for me it’s a roller coaster that I want off,
like a bunch of other people I wish Ibogaine would sneak through my door and
pounce on me like a redeeming feral cat, but I know I got to go to it on my
own…..anyway I’m just empathizing with ya.

Hope you feel better soon,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

Thankyou…good analogy.  now if I could only move :]
And yes, the aches and pains are a drag and a half.  It hasn’t stopped
raining in a week, so add allergies and humidity to the mix, and i am
in soup mode.
There is no tub, and the showers have to be short thanks to a flooded
septic system.  Urgh.
how long till you felt “right?”  the first time i went through
treatment with ibogaine, I wasn’t nearly this wiped out.  I must be
getting oooooollllllldddd…..
love
tink

On 6/16/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of
aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they say,
as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the
bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest
bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t
calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate and
grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread their
wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore as
hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 6:01:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ah but methadone for pain manegement is a total diferent thing….i think that trully is a bliss…i had a girl that used to take 300 mg of morhpine 4 times a day for fibromalagia and shit loads  for break through pain and was still hurting……i know when she got on a steady dose of methadone she was feeling million tmies better but meth for opiate maintaince ?????
and to that person who wants to show that “addiciton specialist ” something usefull how about the report by ehud bastians “life after ibogaine” that should inerest him…

Namaste
Matthew

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 18, 2005 at 2:40:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m going to tread lightly so that angry feminists don’t get the idea
to lynch me.

All this is well and good but you’d be well advised to take women’s
studies 101 or even human sexuality 101. Male feminists make great
friends or token bodies at feminism meetings, but unless you are really
attracted to very fat angry women, none of them look like they ever get
any sex. What women are attracted to are big violent men. Say what you
want about that, analyze it or talk about worshipping the godess but
you’re not getting laid.

You will get to listen to lots of hotties you have a crush on complain
about their asshole boyfriends, in the hope that you’ll finally get
laid, but all that will happen is she will move on to the next big
violent guy and you’ll have lots of conversations.

Say what you want, call me immature, cite references all you want, but
it is not the nice guys who are ever appealing to any woman, not
sexually.

This is another of those the way the world should be but isn’t
conversations. You’re looking for the alan alda support group not
mindvox 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi rachel,
I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
that article right now.
I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
towards the feminine.
Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
awakened in men
they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
denial of that feminine or simply out of
ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
shadow imo.
I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
lack of awareness is
causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
Love to you
Lee

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
right now with our
spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
talks all the time
about how the principle of motherhood is something
to be awakened in
both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think
of when I think of
Goddess, but your mileage may vary.

She spoke last night about how the women of the
world are getting
super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
if we don’t watch
out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
the female
principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I
felt it in my gut
this morning when I read this New York Times column
by Nicholas
Kristof,

which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
Very upsetting.  It
made me imagine what would happen if all the women
in the world
refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
act, or stopped
cooking and making love and being the nurturers.

How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
about this story
months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like
this???  It’s not,
in other words, just about women getting in touch
with their inner
Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men
realizing they are fucking
themselves big time through the injuriou

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 2:15:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only scientist who has real credentials and gets published in any
journal that has credibility, who has ever published any research about
using ibogaine on drug addicts is Dr. Mash.

Anyone should correct me if I’m wrong, but there is nothing at all
besides her monographs. There are a ton of anecdotal papers, tons of
opinions, there is animal research up the wazoo, but with human
subjects who were on crack or heroin and used ibogaine to stop, there
is patrick’s mom 😉 that’s it.

Her main (last too I think) paper is Ibogaine: Complex
Pharmacokinetics, Concerns for Safety, and Preliminary Efficacy
Measures.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/Mash-01.htm
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/Mash-01.pdf

That’s the most definitive ibogaine paper that exists, charts, graphs,
phds and md’s, published in mainstream medical journals. Science not
opinions.

If you direct Dr. Byrne to her I’m sure she’ll be happy to agree with
why Howard Lotsoff is a ratbag, why the underground is the same as back
room abortionists and why ibogaine is very dangerous unless she’s the
one selling it to you.

If you want evidence and research, that’s it. I don’t have the Rites of
Passage dvd yet, but from what’s been written on here it’s a good film
about ibogaine, Howard and Patrick are both really articulate and smart
and certainly know what’s happening with ibogaine and Patrick is listed
on the documentary site as representing the Ibogaine Research Project,
which is Dr. Mash’s ibogaine research at the University of Miami, so
there is credibility and Dr. Glick is there also(?) You’d know this
better then me, I haven’t seen the movie, sorry.

.:vector:.

— Boris <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

So, anyway, besides lending Dr Byrne the Rites of Passage DVD, what
other “evidence” or “research” can I send his way? I don’t want to
just send him a tonne of links that will lead him around in circles,
and fail to breach his bias barrier, only to confirm his belief the
Ibogaine community is just a bunch of delusional loonies. I think he
is the kind of guy that gets excited by lots of big numbers and
percentages and dramatic graphs and pretty tables and scientific
Journal citations. Anything out there resembling such a thing?

Boris

____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 1:35:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
I can feel you all the way up here, and I know exactly what you mean.
I have my days when, as a fellow chronic pain and nerve damaged
individual, when I miss the clinic quite a bit.  I was more productive
on suboxone, however, but remain unclear on whether or not I think
either of them are worth the cost, for me personally, anyway.
Harm reduction indeed, and how quickly I forget how glad i was to get
on the clinic in the first place.  I suppose my aggrevation comes from
knowing how hard we all have to fight for the right to lead a life of
any sort of quality (what form that quality comes in being entirely up
to the individual), and how difficult it is to rebuild and restructure
while trying to get and stay off of all dope, government and
otherwise.  If everyone had the advantages I have had in my recovery
with the double ibogaine treatments, I suppose I would feel better
about hearing a friend had just started the clinic for the very first
time, instead of getting that queasy feeling , as if the bottom just
dropped out of their life and I got to see it.
Regardless, I hear the aggrevation in your voice, loud and clear, and
I’m sending you tons of love and comfort, and maybe a little serenity,
if I can find it around here, somewhere.
My love to you,
tink

and Boris…kudos to you for all of your voice of reason in a
definatively unreasonable world.  Hope you and Mandy are doing well,
and i send you my love as well.
Keep posting, we all need it!!
love again,
tink

On 6/18/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
oh, oops, I see. Thanks, and thanks for the previous post too- you’ve given
me some cause for a smile, and I appreciate it.
It’s nice to hear your version or view of life.
Because you’re right, so very right, that to each their own.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Please ignore any messages from whatever is sending them…. I have
no idea why cos I get all mail, i get the mailbox full message too. I
have written to freenet to see what is up….. got an email today
saying my account has been suspended….. but it’s got an
attachment!!! So i aint touching it with a barge pole!!!
Heh…. that’s the trouble with reading/replying, reading/replying ya
get to the end of the messages and go Oh.  lol
It’s all good
Kirk :o)

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:46:58 -0400

wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these
replies
from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here
in NZ
I
have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on

it…are
doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be
alternatives
yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still
so much
education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across
the
board
is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk
today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All
I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s
free,
has
no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get
takeaways.
Well,
geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug
counsellor
and
the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for
a
medical.
Yeh, probly lucky.
LUFF LUFF LUFF
heh
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on

cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant,
but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
THAT GO
ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK
BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
DOPE TO
DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO
GET OFF
IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO
COMIND
DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–

all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can
get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
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Premium:
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 12:34:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh, oops, I see. Thanks, and thanks for the previous post too- you’ve given me some cause for a smile, and I appreciate it.
It’s nice to hear your version or view of life.
Because you’re right, so very right, that to each their own.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Please ignore any messages from whatever is sending them…. I have
no idea why cos I get all mail, i get the mailbox full message too. I
have written to freenet to see what is up….. got an email today
saying my account has been suspended….. but it’s got an
attachment!!! So i aint touching it with a barge pole!!!
Heh…. that’s the trouble with reading/replying, reading/replying ya
get to the end of the messages and go Oh.  lol
It’s all good
Kirk :o)

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:46:58 -0400

wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these
replies
from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here
in NZ
I
have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on

it…are
doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be
alternatives
yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still
so much
education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across
the
board
is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk
today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All
I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s
free,
has
no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get
takeaways.
Well,
geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug
counsellor
and
the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for
a
medical.
Yeh, probly lucky.
LUFF LUFF LUFF
heh
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on

cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant,
but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
THAT GO
ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK
BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
DOPE TO
DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO
GET OFF
IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO
COMIND
DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–
all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can
get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN
Premium:
Join
now and get the first two months FREE*

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: DBMAIL: delivery failure
Date: June 18, 2005 at 12:27:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is what I was talking about Cpt. Kirk.
But I note it in the nicest most friendly fashion possible, not being a prick about it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <MAILER-DAEMON@ceres.concept.net.nz>
To: <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure

This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program.

I’m sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to captkirk,
could not be delivered due to the following error.

*** Mailbox of user captkirk is FULL ***

If you think this message is incorrect please contact postmaster@concept.net.nz.

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Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 18, 2005 at 12:28:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, anyway, besides lending Dr Byrne the Rites of Passage DVD, what other “evidence” or “research” can I send his way? I don’t want to just send him a tonne of links that will lead him around in circles, and fail to breach his bias barrier, only to confirm his belief the Ibogaine community is just a bunch of delusional loonies. I think he is the kind of guy that gets excited by lots of big numbers and percentages and dramatic graphs and pretty tables and scientific Journal citations. Anything out there resembling such a thing?

Boris

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is
close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from him (“Addict
in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in reception
is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of
H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the
experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat
to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am
really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a patient, I am
grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it seems he is
mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient.
Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book
and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance,
which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a good group
or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend some drugs
or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin, speed, addiction
relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions and ask mine
all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I was actually
on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day,
sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no
speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery
group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway
between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that
sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in
their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what he’d reccomend
for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought
he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve
been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have
been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I
have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract
and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are the studies?
These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40 years. Where
is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the
providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is some person
in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever that says
it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid
Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance
promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my
interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead
trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard
Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I have about
1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people
taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but he argues
that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that it works, he
says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in
it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was tested back in
the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I
continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to
squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an explanation of the
difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine,
the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from the medical
establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical companies..
I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and
even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me
out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his book
– he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or
if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the
surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed
patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading
addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to
say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction
treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset
thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about
ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I
also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell
not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may help sway
a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 11:55:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please ignore any messages from whatever is sending them…. I have
no idea why cos I get all mail, i get the mailbox full message too. I
have written to freenet to see what is up….. got an email today
saying my account has been suspended….. but it’s got an
attachment!!! So i aint touching it with a barge pole!!!
Heh…. that’s the trouble with reading/replying, reading/replying ya
get to the end of the messages and go Oh.  lol
It’s all good
Kirk :o)

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:46:58 -0400

wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these
replies
from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here
in NZ
I
have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on

it…are
doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be
alternatives
yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still
so much
education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across
the
board
is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk
today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All
I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s
free,
has
no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get
takeaways.
Well,
geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug
counsellor
and
the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for
a
medical.
Yeh, probly lucky.
LUFF LUFF LUFF
heh
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on

cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant,
but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
THAT GO
ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK
BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
DOPE TO
DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO
GET OFF
IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO
COMIND
DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–

all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can
get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN
Premium:
Join
now and get the first two months FREE*

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From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 11:51:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,
I did the same thing…. things were temporarily all sweet and I did
come off… but I wasn’t anywhere near ready.  I know what it’s like
and doing a “normal” detox is the last thing I ever wanna do again
now!!!!
I’m back on it, I feel really great…. the poppy seed tea for some
reason was shit… very weak so energy was shit, I was bloated from
it and got really depressed. Now back on m,ethadone, my weight is
excellent, energy is back and I have no problems with being on it for
as long as I need it.  But yes I have been lucky with ALL aspects of
providing this time.  I look forward to the medicals and a chat with
ANY of the counsellors.
Each to their own, that’s just something we learn I guess…
Hugs to ya Preston….
Love heaps
Kirk

—- Original Message —-
From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:43:19 -0400

I feel really badly for those of you who have had so much trouble
with your
methadone providers. I guess I was lucky, or had a different outlook
when I
got on the stuff. YES, I decided eventually to get off- and there are
days
even now when I fucking regret it.

I got off of it, methadone, because I decided I wasn’t in need of it
any
longer, that I wasn’t using cocaine any more and that methadone
hadn’t done
that, and that I didn’t feel any need for dope anymore (HA!). Now I’m
a
chronic pain patient who can barely walk sometimes, still in need of
opiates, and am so fucking sick and tired- and have put myself back
through
hell again since getting off methadone more times than I want to
count. And
still don’t feel all happy and glowy like so many of you out there.
“I’m so
happy, ibogaine so fucking rocks,” well groovy for you. Glad it
helped. But
I wish people would stop denigrating methadone, when it’s the only
option
for so many out there still. Yeah, it would be nice to have more
options,
including ibogaine, but for crying out loud, I didn’t get any of the
symptoms described by Mathew EXCEPT that I didn’t like to tell people
all
that often that I was taking methadone because they were so damned
judgemental and condescending and unfriendly and sure I was broken
because I
was on methadone, and I let that feeling get to me and decided I
wasn’t into
it anymore- and am STILL not sure I was having my best day that day,
when I
decided to get off methadone.
I’m sorry, I’m feeling aggrevated, depressed and irritated and this
note is
NOT aimed at anyone in particular, but I sure do disagree with a lot
of
what’s been said here in this whole entire anti-methadone thread.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!
METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON
THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS
THAT GO ON
METHADONE ARE
1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY
NEED TO
SCORE
2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK BEGINS
AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE
DOPE TO DO
IT
3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO GET
OFF IT
——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO COMIND
DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–
all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can get
on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with
the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured
fuk em all!!!!1 n
NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of
methadone
fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN
Premium: Join
now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 11:46:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wish I’d phrased my irritated note more like this. Thanks Capt. Kirk.
Wish you’d empty your mailbox though, because I keep getting these replies from posting to the ibogaine list saying your box is full.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here in NZ I
have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on it…are
doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be alternatives
yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still so much
education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across the board
is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All
I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s free, has
no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get takeaways. Well,
geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug counsellor and
the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for a
medical.
Yeh, probly lucky.
LUFF LUFF LUFF
heh
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant, but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS THAT GO
ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE DOPE TO
DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO GET OFF IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO COMIND DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–
all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 11:43:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I feel really badly for those of you who have had so much trouble with your methadone providers. I guess I was lucky, or had a different outlook when I got on the stuff. YES, I decided eventually to get off- and there are days even now when I fucking regret it.

I got off of it, methadone, because I decided I wasn’t in need of it any longer, that I wasn’t using cocaine any more and that methadone hadn’t done that, and that I didn’t feel any need for dope anymore (HA!). Now I’m a chronic pain patient who can barely walk sometimes, still in need of opiates, and am so fucking sick and tired- and have put myself back through hell again since getting off methadone more times than I want to count. And still don’t feel all happy and glowy like so many of you out there. “I’m so happy, ibogaine so fucking rocks,” well groovy for you. Glad it helped. But I wish people would stop denigrating methadone, when it’s the only option for so many out there still. Yeah, it would be nice to have more options, including ibogaine, but for crying out loud, I didn’t get any of the symptoms described by Mathew EXCEPT that I didn’t like to tell people all that often that I was taking methadone because they were so damned judgemental and condescending and unfriendly and sure I was broken because I was on methadone, and I let that feeling get to me and decided I wasn’t into it anymore- and am STILL not sure I was having my best day that day, when I decided to get off methadone.
I’m sorry, I’m feeling aggrevated, depressed and irritated and this note is NOT aimed at anyone in particular, but I sure do disagree with a lot of what’s been said here in this whole entire anti-methadone thread.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!
METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON
THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS THAT GO ON METHADONE ARE
1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY NEED TO SCORE
2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK BEGINS AND THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE DOPE TO DO IT
3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO GET OFF IT
——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO COMIND DOWN FROM THIS SHIT—–
all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can get on methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with the college of physians and there u go ……u are cured
fuk em all!!!!1 n
NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION SPECIALISTS” vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of methadone
fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 11:27:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy wrote >In a perfect world we would give addicts whatever they are addicted to. I don’t think many people would choose methadone given a choice. I think that anyone addicted should at least know about Ibogaine too.<

Bingo, I think you’re probably right, and bingo again.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…

Nick, I think there may be something to what he says, although I would question how long someone should stay on Methadone. I think it’s pretty clear that the longer your on Methadone the harder it is to get off of. In a perfect world we would give addicts whatever they are addicted to. I don’t think many people would choose methadone given a choice. I think that anyone addicted should at least know about Ibogaine too. Methadone is the hardest on me to kick anyway. Maybe Paladone is the answer, who knows.     Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 11:21:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tink wrote with all sincerity >but none of this methadrone for
life shit.<

Love you tink, but I don’t agree. I think that there are so many avenues for change, for HARM REDUCTION that in this day and age of outright prohibition, methadone for those who want it and do better on it, FOR LIFE should be an option.

Did the good doctor mention how bloated and lethargic people become?<

I (and I only speak for me) was more productive while taking methadone than I’ve ever been in my life.
And I never gained much weight either, although I was heavier then than now- but only a few pounds.

How deep it goes into your marrow?<

I’ve read this is a myth, the marrow thing.

How hard it is to get off of? <

Yes, it’s a bitch to get off- but until we stop arresting and incarcerating people for using the drugs that make them feel better and stop hurting them even more than they might already be doing themselves by doing so, adding hurt and pain to what can already be a painful and hurtful situation, then allowing those who say “enough already” but are NOT ready to stop using (and may never be) to use methadone for life is just fine with me.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

If methadone was used as a detox tool, in gradually smaller doses, as
a way to get off of heroin (or the opiate of choice) for no longer
than say, 30-90 days, i think it would be great.  Maintainence did
nothing more than keep me shackled to a legal dealer who had a less
ethical outlook on addiction than half of my dealers did.  The way
that the clinics are run, at least in Florida, Maine, Vermont(where
there is only ONE clinic for the whole state, with 150 slots, and an 8
month waiting list on a slow day) and parts of Mass, is deplorable.
They’re far more concerned with their bottom line than the welfare of
the addicts that walk through the doors looking for help.  That’s been
my experience, any way.  And it’s turning into the same thing for the
suboxone doc’s.
I will say that in SF, when I checked it out, they had an option of
maitenance or a 28 day out patient detox using the methadone.  I think
that that should be the first option, and if it doesn’t work, then go
onto some sort of longer term program, but none of this methadrone for
life shit.
Did the good doctor mention how bloated and lethargic people become?
How deep it goes into your marrow?  How hard it is to get off of?
That it was developed by NAZIS!!!!
love tink

On 6/17/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Check this out from Dr Byrne’s book –

“The miracle of methadone has to be witnessed to be understood.
The change in the addict is often sudden and dramatic. The appearance,
attitude, general health and social functioning may return to normal
almost overnight.

Following months or even years of illicit drug use, it is important to have a substantial period of stability on methadone before considering dose reductions. It has been shown repeatedly that those remaining in treatment longer have a better likelihood of long term abstinence from narcotics.”

What do people think?

Nick

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
> Sent: 17 June 2005 08:29
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
> cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>
>
>  Right,…..that’s it,….no one calls Howard a rat bag,
>  c’mon boys we got work to do.
>
>                                  love, Jasen
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Boris Leshinsky” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:52 AM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
> anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
>
>
> >> Comments by Andrew Byrne ..
> >>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >   Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
> >>    Dependency Medicine,
> > ……..
> >>    New South Wales, 2016, Australia
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery > > is
> > close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from
> him (“Addict
> > in the Family”).
> >
> > Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in
> reception
> > is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her
> first hit of
> > H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the
> > experience.
> >
> > Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a
> quick chat
> > to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am
> > really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a
> patient, I am
> > grateful for any time he can spare to see me.
> >
> > Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it
> seems he is
> > mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another
> patient.
> > Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the > > book
> > and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance,
> > which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a
> good group
> > or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend
> some drugs
> > or whatever for cravings.
> >
> > He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin,
> speed, addiction
> > relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions
> and ask mine
> > all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
> > “No”.
> > “Then why are your pupils so large?”
> > “Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
> > I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I
> was actually
> > on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer
> all day,
> > sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast).
> Definitely no
> > speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
> > maximum productivity?
> >
> > I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART > > Recovery
> > group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway
> > between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest
> chemist that
> > sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in
> > their first session.
> >
> > Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what
> he’d reccomend
> > for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted,
> I thought
> > he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things > > we’ve
> > been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
> > “Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works,
> there have
> > been been no studies done…”
> > So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been
> research, I
> > have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
> > “You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
> > acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about
> vegimite extract
> > and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are
> the studies?
> > These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40
> years. Where
> > is the proof? Where are the studies?”
> > “There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the
> > providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
> > “Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is
> some person
> > in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever
> that says
> > it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid
> > Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance
> > promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my
> > interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
> > “I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead
> > trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard
> > Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
> > “He is a ratbag”, he continues..
> > “Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
> > “What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
> > “Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
> > We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I
> have about
> > 1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people
> > taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but
> he argues
> > that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that
> it works, he
> > says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active
> chemical in
> > it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was
> tested back in
> > the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I
> > continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to
> > squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an
> explanation of the
> > difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of
> ibogaine,
> > the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from
> the medical
> > establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical
> companies..
> > I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain
> chemistry and
> > even restores liver function..
> > I think it was at this point he said to me:
> > “You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me
> > out…
> >
> > And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his
> > book – he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can
> afford it,
> > or if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking
> out of the
> > surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another
> blurry eyed
> > patient, stumbling into his office:
> > “Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”
> >
> > So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading
> > addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what
> he had to
> > say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction
> > treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset
> > thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about
> > ibogaine. Well, duh.
> >
> > I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
> > Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page… > > I
> > also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why
> the hell
> > not?
> >
> > Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may
> help sway
> > a skeptical doctor?
> >
> > cheers
> > Boris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 17, 2005 at 9:31:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beatrice,

please , think for yourself.

people can write…,but have no prove.also have no prove they know
somthing about Ibogaine used as a antiviral drug.
do you know how many viruses we can have without even knowing we got them?

In Kinesiology and Bioenergetics, these things where people look at how
the
body and mind relate, they say Herpes relates to sexual anxiety, fear of
sexual expression. I think it makes sense. My girlfriend used to get an
outbreak from time to time, but very rarely now after doing a lot of
groups
at Humaniversity in Holland where you go into sex issues a lot. I also
heard
it’s stored in the body and just comes out when something triggers.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Marc Emery [mailto:Marc420Emery@shaw.ca]
Sent: 15 June 2005 22:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Beatrice,

You still have the Herpes 2 virus. It is not detectable in your
blood or any other test until you have an outbreak and the
shedding provides analyzable viral content. when you aren’t
shedding, the virus waits in the lower spine and is undetectable.

Ibogaine does not kill viruses. Having herpes myself and having
treated 65 individuals with ibogaine, I haven’t seen any
extraordinary effect on viruses.

I hope its true, but I want you to know that it would seem to me
impossible that herpes can be vanquished by ibogaine. If its any
comfort, over time, herpes outbreaks diminish greatly in
frequency and virulence.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:45 pm
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away
from my
attacker, he told me that I would reme
mber him.  I didn’t know
exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes.They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for
anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
somethingabout not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the
herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.
Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine
Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because
of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine
provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everythingabout this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I m
entioned it to my
provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrexaround February, just to see if I would break out.  I
didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to
get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myselftested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just
two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine
can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right
now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for
another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
withsomeone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird
way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 17, 2005 at 7:45:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, I did have a positive blood test for HSV-II.  When I went in yesterday, they said the test was a blood DNA test, and therefore extremely accurate.  They told me in their opinion it was a waste of money doing it again, but they would of course.  I did it and will now wait and see.
Thanks for your reply!

On 6/17/05 4:00 PM, “Schmoolyboy@aol.com” <Schmoolyboy@aol.com> wrote:

Did you ever have a positive blood test for HSV-II before taking Ibogaine or did you make the diagnosis by your outbreak? Glad you are cured and thanks for sharing your story

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 7:06:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well said Howard

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 17, 2005 at 7:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Did you ever have a positive blood test for HSV-II before taking Ibogaine or did you make the diagnosis by your outbreak? Glad you are cured and thanks for sharing your story

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 6:18:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, now I have a fresh set of underwears on…….I just rememberd a joke
that the pharmacist (my done dealer) told me, who has a dyslexic friend who
collects dyslexic jokes:
Did you hear about the Dislexic who Sold their Soul to Santa????
Or, Old Macdonald was dyslexic, E I H J K!!!!!!
Your mother ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO so bad.

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 10:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

you know my mother??!

On 6/17/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
But heyyy what about passive aggressive psychotic agrophobic
claustrophobic
paranoid schizophrenic lesbian dwarfs??????????  Aye???? Aye???????

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:27 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

okay, so what about aggressive woman and passive men?  Same deal, or
are you sticking to sterotypes?  Just giving you some shit, dear
matthew….you know I love you ;}
tinkerhell(in a MOOD)

On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

actually this goes both ways and much farther

since most choose to be born a female or a male in one life time or
another
and usuly reciprocate as the case may be when we look for a relationship
what we are doing is really trying to connect to our whole being…..sex
emotions play a big part ofcourse….but the bigger part is to unite
with
the whole

males need the femine part to be more empathic and more intuned with
their
feelings etc

while woman need the male agressivness etc

only then can we be in balance

<lvlove!!

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 6:02:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you know my mother??!

On 6/17/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
But heyyy what about passive aggressive psychotic agrophobic claustrophobic
paranoid schizophrenic lesbian dwarfs??????????  Aye???? Aye???????

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:27 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

okay, so what about aggressive woman and passive men?  Same deal, or
are you sticking to sterotypes?  Just giving you some shit, dear
matthew….you know I love you ;}
tinkerhell(in a MOOD)

On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

actually this goes both ways and much farther

since most choose to be born a female or a male in one life time or
another
and usuly reciprocate as the case may be when we look for a relationship
what we are doing is really trying to connect to our whole being…..sex
emotions play a big part ofcourse….but the bigger part is to unite with
the whole

males need the femine part to be more empathic and more intuned with their
feelings etc

while woman need the male agressivness etc

only then can we be in balance

<lvlove!!

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now
and
get the first two months FREE*

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:55:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Everyone on earth will be put to sleep just long enough for the mindset of Duality to be removed”
Ahmen to that lol
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:32 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

love lvoe love :]
agresive woman just take too much of the agresivness from man —out of balance
same with passive man
:}
love love lvoe

Namaste
Matthew
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:54:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But heyyy what about passive aggressive psychotic agrophobic claustrophobic
paranoid schizophrenic lesbian dwarfs??????????  Aye???? Aye???????

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:27 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

okay, so what about aggressive woman and passive men?  Same deal, or
are you sticking to sterotypes?  Just giving you some shit, dear
matthew….you know I love you ;}
tinkerhell(in a MOOD)

On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

actually this goes both ways and much farther

since most choose to be born a female or a male in one life time or
another
and usuly reciprocate as the case may be when we look for a relationship
what we are doing is really trying to connect to our whole being…..sex
emotions play a big part ofcourse….but the bigger part is to unite with
the whole

males need the femine part to be more empathic and more intuned with their
feelings etc

while woman need the male agressivness etc

only then can we be in balance

<lvlove!!

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now
and
get the first two months FREE*

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:52:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, peeking up from the trenches just long enough to say…….here in NZ I
have seen people helped and I’ve seen people quite happy to stay on it…are
doing great.. not bloated or lethargic…..yes there should be alternatives
yes there should be this that and the next BUT geez, there’s still so much
education to happen….expecting complete understanding all across the board
is like THEM expecting  us just to quit the junk today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  All
I can say is…. I’m quite happy on done for the time being, it’s free, has
no crap in it (pingable for those who chose to)  and I get takeaways. Well,
geee shit, I HAVE to be grateful!!!!!  I guess it’s a shit system
elsewhere… so maybe I’m also lucky.  Oh and I love my drug counsellor and
the drug doc we pretty much have a coffee session when I go in for a
medical.
Yeh, probly lucky.
LUFF LUFF LUFF
heh
Kirk xxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 8:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant, but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS THAT GO
ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE DOPE TO
DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO GET OFF IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO COMIND DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–

all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION
SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium:
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mr.Bong whaps Moshy in the head and he lands in Drugachussettes
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:48:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

FUNNY AS HELL!!! >kaffkaffakaff<
Only saw one, but it was doozy…
did you go to www.rathergood.com and play Gay Bar yet?
tell me what ya think..
love to you, oh warped one!!!
tinkerfreak

On 6/17/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
Tink, did ya get to see Spongebong Hemp pants? I want feedback lol

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 6:53 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mr.Bong whaps Moshy in the head and he lands in
Drugachussettes

I’m zoning out on some Comedy Central, and all of a sudden, there’s a
skit featuring HallucinaJenny and The Pot Brownies (little muppety
things in brownie outfits) and they’re riding down the Letsgitt
Highway through Druggachusettes. “Remember kids! Only take what you
can handle, and always know your dealer.”
And people think I’M sick!!
Very warped yet very funny.
Eep!
love tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:45:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, what’s Paladone?  Man, we’re so far behind here, the first I heard of the subox thing and bupe was here….  Unheard of otherwise.  Probly a good thing…… being keen to be clean I woulda tried anything like that if there was hope.
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 7:28 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…

Nick, I think there may be something to what he says, although I would question how long someone should stay on Methadone. I think it’s pretty clear that the longer your on Methadone the harder it is to get off of. In a perfect world we would give addicts whatever they are addicted to. I don’t think many people would choose methadone given a choice. I think that anyone addicted should at least know about Ibogaine too. Methadone is the hardest on me to kick anyway. Maybe Paladone is the answer, who knows.     Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mr.Bong whaps Moshy in the head and he lands in Drugachussettes
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:41:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tink, did ya get to see Spongebong Hemp pants? I want feedback lol

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 6:53 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mr.Bong whaps Moshy in the head and he lands in
Drugachussettes

I’m zoning out on some Comedy Central, and all of a sudden, there’s a
skit featuring HallucinaJenny and The Pot Brownies (little muppety
things in brownie outfits) and they’re riding down the Letsgitt
Highway through Druggachusettes. “Remember kids! Only take what you
can handle, and always know your dealer.”
And people think I’M sick!!
Very warped yet very funny.
Eep!
love tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:36:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyyyyy ,wowww we getting a real family shin dig thing going on here!!!!
Lovely to meet you Grannieannie, our toleration points are huge (if you chose to stay and read, you’ll see I’m lying lol)  but when it comes to the Whanau (family) of Randy, any and all are welcome!!!
Thanks for that info, I’m always keen to know more (specially when my “facts” are old and hazy lol) and look forward to hearing more from the Randy Band!!
Love to you all
Kirsty Dawn
From: Ann B. Mullikin [mailto:think@francomm.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 1:26 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

Hi;

I’m L’il Randy’s grannieannie – can you tolerate three generations of us?  I call LR “Rocky” on accounta of the
confusion factor.  Well, anyway that’s besides the point.  LR has two counsins (boys) sons of BR (Big Randy)’s
younger brother. who were both diagnosied ADD and had been on meds for a lot of years.  They are not taking those
meds now but have gone another route.  Both are taking Essential Fatty Acids (Omega 3 and Omega 6 oils) with big
improvements. The reasearch behind the theory is facinating.  If any interest go to Pubmed and general searches
like Google and see for yourself.

GA, mama, ann, etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers) and although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken to court for this.
Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time and patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge but the symptoms are pretty  similar.  Oh, and kids eat so much refined carbo’s these days…. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a calming effect on some….) it’s most likely the diet.
Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to know.
Fanks
Kirk
From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:32:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

love lvoe love :]
agresive woman just take too much of the agresivness from man —out of balance
same with passive man
:}
love love lvoe

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:26:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

okay, so what about aggressive woman and passive men?  Same deal, or
are you sticking to sterotypes?  Just giving you some shit, dear
matthew….you know I love you ;}
tinkerhell(in a MOOD)

On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

actually this goes both ways and much farther

since most choose to be born a female or a male in one life time or another
and usuly reciprocate as the case may be when we look for a relationship
what we are doing is really trying to connect to our whole being…..sex
emotions play a big part ofcourse….but the bigger part is to unite with
the whole

males need the femine part to be more empathic and more intuned with their
feelings etc

while woman need the male agressivness etc

only then can we be in balance

<lvlove!!

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and
get the first two months FREE*
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:22:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

actually this goes both ways and much farther
since most choose to be born a female or a male in one life time or another and usuly reciprocate as the case may be when we look for a relationship what we are doing is really trying to connect to our whole being…..sex emotions play a big part ofcourse….but the bigger part is to unite with the whole
males need the femine part to be more empathic and more intuned with their feelings etc
while woman need the male agressivness etc
only then can we be in balance
<lvlove!!

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] what a fucking night: 12 Monkies and Interventions…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:17:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

love you more…
tinkerfreak?

On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

hEY YO

so happy everything went smoothly…….u are lucky to have ur whole familly
behind u……:}

love u u freak

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] what a fucking night: 12 Monkies and Interventions…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:16:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hEY YO
so happy everything went smoothly…….u are lucky to have ur whole familly behind u……:}
love u u freak

Namaste
Matthew

Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:16:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

geesh, matt!  you have a definate opinion on this doncha
I have to agree with you, though I was trying to avoid the rant, but
fuck it.  You’re right, and we all know it.  There’s a reason they
call it LIQUID HANDCUFFS!!!
I hate the shit.
i love you!!
tink
On 6/17/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!

METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON

THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS THAT GO ON
METHADONE ARE

1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY NEED TO
SCORE

2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK BEGINS AND
THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE DOPE TO DO
IT

3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO GET OFF IT

——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO COMIND DOWN
FROM THIS SHIT—–

all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can get on
methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with the
college of physians and there u go ……u are cured

fuk em all!!!!1 n

NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION SPECIALISTS”
vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of methadone

fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join
now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 4:13:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

FULL OF SHIT!!!!!
METHADONE = A BARLESS PRISON
THE ONLY LIFE ALETRING CHANGES I VE SEEN ON ME AND FELLOW ADDICTS THAT GO ON METHADONE ARE
1 THE FIRST WEEK THEY ARE DROWSY FROM THE METH SO THEY DONT REALY NEED TO SCORE
2 AS THE WEEK ENDS AND THE DROWSINESS FADES AWAY THE NEXT WEEK BEGINS AND THEY NOTICE THEY STILL WANT TO GET HIGH BUT NOW NEED TO BANG MORE DOPE TO DO IT
3 AS MONTHS TURN INTO YEARS THEY ALL COMPLAINN HOW THEY WANT TO GET OFF IT
——COMING DOWN FROM  HEROIN REALLY  IS A PICNIC COMPRAED TO COMIND DOWN FROM THIS SHIT—–
all thes methadone doctors…..fuck!!!!…..here in canada u can get on methadon in a matter of a day….they just need to register u with the college of physians and there u go ……u are cured
fuk em all!!!!1 n
NO WONDER IBOGIANE WILL NEVER BE LEGAL since we have “ADDICTION SPECIALISTS” vocing their qualifed knowldgebable opinions on the benefits of methadone
fuck!!!!

NO LOVE IN THIS POST

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 3:45:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If methadone was used as a detox tool, in gradually smaller doses, as
a way to get off of heroin (or the opiate of choice) for no longer
than say, 30-90 days, i think it would be great.  Maintainence did
nothing more than keep me shackled to a legal dealer who had a less
ethical outlook on addiction than half of my dealers did.  The way
that the clinics are run, at least in Florida, Maine, Vermont(where
there is only ONE clinic for the whole state, with 150 slots, and an 8
month waiting list on a slow day) and parts of Mass, is deplorable.
They’re far more concerned with their bottom line than the welfare of
the addicts that walk through the doors looking for help.  That’s been
my experience, any way.  And it’s turning into the same thing for the
suboxone doc’s.
I will say that in SF, when I checked it out, they had an option of
maitenance or a 28 day out patient detox using the methadone.  I think
that that should be the first option, and if it doesn’t work, then go
onto some sort of longer term program, but none of this methadrone for
life shit.
Did the good doctor mention how bloated and lethargic people become?
How deep it goes into your marrow?  How hard it is to get off of?
That it was developed by NAZIS!!!!
love tink

On 6/17/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Check this out from Dr Byrne’s book –

“The miracle of methadone has to be witnessed to be understood.
The change in the addict is often sudden and dramatic. The appearance,
attitude, general health and social functioning may return to normal
almost overnight.

Following months or even years of illicit drug use, it is important to have a substantial period of stability on methadone before considering dose reductions. It has been shown repeatedly that those remaining in treatment longer have a better likelihood of long term abstinence from narcotics.”

What do people think?

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 17 June 2005 08:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Right,…..that’s it,….no one calls Howard a rat bag,
c’mon boys we got work to do.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: “Boris Leshinsky” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is
close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from
him (“Addict
in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in
reception
is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her
first hit of
H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the
experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a
quick chat
to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am
really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a
patient, I am
grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it
seems he is
mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another
patient.
Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book
and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance,
which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a
good group
or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend
some drugs
or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin,
speed, addiction
relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions
and ask mine
all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I
was actually
on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer
all day,
sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast).
Definitely no
speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery
group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway
between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest
chemist that
sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in
their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what
he’d reccomend
for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted,
I thought
he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve
been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works,
there have
been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been
research, I
have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about
vegimite extract
and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are
the studies?
These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40
years. Where
is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the
providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is
some person
in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever
that says
it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid
Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance
promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my
interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead
trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard
Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I
have about
1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people
taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but
he argues
that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that
it works, he
says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active
chemical in
it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was
tested back in
the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I
continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to
squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an
explanation of the
difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of
ibogaine,
the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from
the medical
establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical
companies..
I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain
chemistry and
even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me
out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his
book – he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can
afford it,
or if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking
out of the
surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another
blurry eyed
patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading
addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what
he had to
say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction
treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset
thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about
ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I
also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why
the hell
not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may
help sway
a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 3:27:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, I think there may be something to what he says, although I would question how long someone should stay on Methadone. I think it’s pretty clear that the longer your on Methadone the harder it is to get off of. In a perfect world we would give addicts whatever they are addicted to. I don’t think many people would choose methadone given a choice. I think that anyone addicted should at least know about Ibogaine too. Methadone is the hardest on me to kick anyway. Maybe Paladone is the answer, who knows.     Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 3:16:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Check this out from Dr Byrne’s book –

“The miracle of methadone has to be witnessed to be understood. The change in the addict is often sudden and dramatic. The appearance, attitude, general health and social functioning may return to normal almost overnight.

Following months or even years of illicit drug use, it is important to have a substantial period of stability on methadone before considering dose reductions. It has been shown repeatedly that those remaining in treatment longer have a better likelihood of long term abstinence from narcotics.”

What do people think?

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 17 June 2005 08:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on
cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Right,…..that’s it,….no one calls Howard a rat bag,
c’mon boys we got work to do.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: “Boris Leshinsky” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is
close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from
him (“Addict
in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in
reception
is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her
first hit of
H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the
experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a
quick chat
to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am
really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a
patient, I am
grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it
seems he is
mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another
patient.
Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book
and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance,
which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a
good group
or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend
some drugs
or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin,
speed, addiction
relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions
and ask mine
all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I
was actually
on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer
all day,
sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast).
Definitely no
speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery
group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway
between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest
chemist that
sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in
their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what
he’d reccomend
for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted,
I thought
he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve
been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works,
there have
been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been
research, I
have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about
vegimite extract
and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are
the studies?
These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40
years. Where
is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the
providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is
some person
in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever
that says
it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid
Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance
promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my
interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead
trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard
Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I
have about
1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people
taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but
he argues
that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that
it works, he
says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active
chemical in
it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was
tested back in
the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I
continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to
squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an
explanation of the
difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of
ibogaine,
the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from
the medical
establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical
companies..
I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain
chemistry and
even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me
out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his
book – he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can
afford it,
or if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking
out of the
surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another
blurry eyed
patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading
addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what
he had to
say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction
treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset
thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about
ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I
also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why
the hell
not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may
help sway
a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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[%]

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 17, 2005 at 3:10:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In Kinesiology and Bioenergetics, these things where people look at how the
body and mind relate, they say Herpes relates to sexual anxiety, fear of
sexual expression. I think it makes sense. My girlfriend used to get an
outbreak from time to time, but very rarely now after doing a lot of groups
at Humaniversity in Holland where you go into sex issues a lot. I also heard
it’s stored in the body and just comes out when something triggers.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Marc Emery [mailto:Marc420Emery@shaw.ca]
Sent: 15 June 2005 22:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Beatrice,

You still have the Herpes 2 virus. It is not detectable in your
blood or any other test until you have an outbreak and the
shedding provides analyzable viral content. when you aren’t
shedding, the virus waits in the lower spine and is undetectable.

Ibogaine does not kill viruses. Having herpes myself and having
treated 65 individuals with ibogaine, I haven’t seen any
extraordinary effect on viruses.

I hope its true, but I want you to know that it would seem to me
impossible that herpes can be vanquished by ibogaine. If its any
comfort, over time, herpes outbreaks diminish greatly in
frequency and virulence.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:45 pm
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away
from my
attacker, he told me that I would reme
mber him.  I didn’t know
exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes.They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for
anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
somethingabout not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the
herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.
Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine
Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because
of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine
provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everythingabout this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I m
entioned it to my
provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrexaround February, just to see if I would break out.  I
didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to
get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myselftested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just
two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine
can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right
now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for
another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
withsomeone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird
way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mr.Bong whaps Moshy in the head and he lands in Drugachussettes
Date: June 17, 2005 at 2:53:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m zoning out on some Comedy Central, and all of a sudden, there’s a
skit featuring HallucinaJenny and The Pot Brownies (little muppety
things in brownie outfits) and they’re riding down the Letsgitt
Highway through Druggachusettes. “Remember kids! Only take what you
can handle, and always know your dealer.”
And people think I’M sick!!
Very warped yet very funny.
Eep!
love tink

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 17, 2005 at 2:22:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tried to call you the other day Mark, but your phone was either full or disconnected temporarily, I can’t remember now.
Anyway, I couldn’t get through to even leave a message, whatever the facts of the matter were.
Call me sometime soonly.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

Hello to all of Randy’s people! I’ve gotten to know Randy quite well now and not many people have seen as big a transformation as I have. Randy and I go back a bit of a way’s now with this. Isn’t that right Randy? So cool how all of that came full circle. So proud of you dude.
Lookin forward to seein you soon. -M.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
HI MAMA!!!!
Love to you from tink, and welcome aboard!!

On 6/17/05, Ann B. Mullikin wrote:

Hi;

I’m L’il Randy’s grannieannie – can you tolerate three generations of us? I
call LR “Rocky” on accounta of the
confusion factor. Well, anyway that’s besides the point. LR has two
counsins (boys) sons of BR (Big Randy)’s
younger brother. who were both diagnosied ADD and had been on meds for a lot
of years. They are not taking those
meds now but have gone another route. Both are taking Essential Fatty Acids
(Omega 3 and Omega 6 oils) with big
improvements. The reasearch behind the theory is facinating. If any
interest go to Pubmed and general searches
like Google and see for yourself.

GA, mama, ann, etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could
stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers) and
although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the
pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken to
court for this.

Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time and
patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge
but the symptoms are pretty similar. Oh, and kids eat so much refined
carbo’s these days.. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a
calming effect on some..) it’s most likely the diet. !

Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to know.

Fanks

Kirk

________________________________

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I
just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD
and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the
way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing
that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I
figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all
graduated to me! thadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your
awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 1:58:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dose his vegemite extract laden tea with a hefty dose of ibogaine…
love tink

On 6/16/05, Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from him (“Addict in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in reception is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a patient, I am grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it seems he is mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient. Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance, which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a good group or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend some drugs or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin, speed, addiction relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions and ask mine all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I was actually on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day, sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what he’d reccomend for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are the studies? These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40 years. Where is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is some person in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever that says it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I have about 1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but he argues that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that it works, he says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was tested back in the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an explanation of the difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine, the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from the medical establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical companies..  I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his book – he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may help sway a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tracers & the visionary aspect
Date: June 17, 2005 at 1:33:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Complain away!  I’m still distracted by little flying things in my
peripheral vision, but it’s still amusing.  Ask me again in 4 weeks ;]
love ya
tink

On 6/17/05, Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey tink,

No I don’t have any other vision problems. It’s pretty
mild, so I guess I shouldn’t complain.

— tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m about two weeks out of my treatment and still
seeing stars and
trailers and wiggly purpley thingies, not only in
the morning,
afternoon and eveing,but if I move my head too fast,
and occasionally
my ears ring, but who knows about that.  As for the
hallucinations,
the first time wasn’t nearly as intense as the
second for me.  I was
rather under-dosed the first time ’round.  I am a
prenatal acid
casualty, how ever, and have the abilty to walk into
a room and point
out anyone who has even thought of tripping.  My
parents were(are)
heavily into psychedlics and now, dear old dad is on
a salvia thing.
My mom has been clean for 23 years.
As you can see, my attention span is still barely on
a functioning
level, and I’m wicked achey, but that should resolve
itself soon
enough, i hope.  I can’t focus my eyes as well as i
used to be able to
yet, and that kind of bothers me a bit. Do you have
any problems
visually, other than trailers when you wake up?
I don’t know if any of this helped, but I’m sure
you’ll get other
answers soon that are more knowledgeable than mine
:]
love to you
tink

On 6/17/05, Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all,

I have two questions regarding post-Ibo treatment:

It’s been 6 and a half weeks post for me, and the
first question is, has anyone experienced mild
visions
problems? I still see tracers at night and when I
first wake up.

Second, I didn’t experience any hallucinations or
my
childhood replayed for me during the session. Has
anyone experienced this? I’m told that this only
happens in about 10% of people.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005 (#2005-669)
Date: June 17, 2005 at 1:31:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There was a giant poster someone put up in Montpelier, shortly after
the last Star Wars came out, and, in big, bold letters, it stated:
REVENGE OF THE FRISTE!!!
The Evil Empire is overtaking Congress, the Government, and the world.
War corporatism is being used to change the entire planet into a
enslaved global market. If you think this is happening in a Galaxy
far, far away, it’s time to open your eyes and start paying attention
to what’s going on around you.
Etc, et al
I also found this posted on a doorway near the suboxone doc I used to go see:

“Naturally the common people don’t want war.  But after all, it’s the
leaders of a country who determine policy, and it’s always a simple
matter to drag the people along, whether it’s a democracy, or a facist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictartorship.  All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
pacisifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same in every country.”

-Herman
Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall at the Nuremburg Trials
4/18/1946
from
“Nuremburg Diary”  by Gustave Gilbert

Thank you both!
love
tink

On 6/17/05, Sjonnygee . <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:

This is a very worthy post and describes the people most of us are up
against and the whole insane act of no proper Ibogaine research funds. A
great British (Scottish) politician recently took on a group of these people
(minions of the Bush administration) , at their request and comprehensively
fucked them…………. that a senate committee (and
regime), rife with lies, corruption and ignorance who believe they’re being
guided by god can have so much power given from right wing peers and still
manage to fall flat on their arses when challenged by someone with sense ,
truth and spirit gives me the will to smile ………….Long Live George
Galloway !!  ……….sjonny.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>,
<drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005
(#2005-669)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:23:59 -0400

From the article below, posted to Jules Siegel’s Newsroom-L email
list for journalists, comes these two comments:

“American officials lied to British ministers over the use of
‘internationally
reviled’ napalm-type firebombs in Iraq….The Iraq Analysis Group,
which campaigned
against the war, said the US authorities only admitted the use of
the weapons
after the evidence from reporters had become irrefutable.”

Any planet where people who make weaponry that does this sort of
thing to other people are respectable business folk, and people who
grow and sell marijuana can be arrested on federal charges and be
sentenced to years, up to life, in prison for doing so, is totally
and completely insane.
I just keep picturing that little girl in Vietnam running away from
US napalm bombing. I keep thinking about all the photos I’ve seen of
blown apart US servicemen, amputees and graphic bloody imagery of
the injuries on line, the civilian Iraqis. And now this confirmation
of the use of napalm-“like” weaponry on Iraqis too. Though the use
of it on civilians is unknown at this point, it’s kinda hard to
imagine that people crazy enough to not only order the making of but
the use of too of this shit would have much hesitation over who it
was used on if it served their bloody aims. The personal use of
drugs is BAD, but dropping bombs on other countries, well hey now,
that’s not such a big deal, and “why are we investigating those
Downing Street memos anyway when we’ve got so many jobs being lost
to illegal immigrants and outsourcing, why ain’t we investigatin’
that?” (I heard some schmoe ask this question, in similar words, of
Rep. Conyers yesterday on C-Span’s Washington Journal.)
Anyway, please excuse the cross-post, but I wanted to share this bit
of news, this graphic illustration of just how screwed up our
socieities’ priorities are, for the most part, not speaking of most
people on the DrugWar and Ibogaine lists, (nor Newsroom-L for that
matter come to think of it).

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sharin Bowers”
<SharinSharAlike@AOL.COM>
To: <NEWSROOM-L@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005
(#2005-669)

A type of napalm is being used in Iraq. Napalm is illegal in
Britain and the
US lied to them. They said it was not used in Fallujah but it’s
hard to
believe anything out of their mouths now. No wonder the people in
Iraq have been
trouble getting kerosene, which they used for their heating and
lighting when
electricity was off. It used to be plentiful in Iraq.

US lied to Britain over use of napalm in Iraq war
By Colin Brown, Deputy Political Editor
17 June 2005
source:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=647397′

NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc.
http://www.lsoft.com

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From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tracers & the visionary aspect
Date: June 17, 2005 at 1:14:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey tink,

No I don’t have any other vision problems. It’s pretty
mild, so I guess I shouldn’t complain.

— tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m about two weeks out of my treatment and still
seeing stars and
trailers and wiggly purpley thingies, not only in
the morning,
afternoon and eveing,but if I move my head too fast,
and occasionally
my ears ring, but who knows about that.  As for the
hallucinations,
the first time wasn’t nearly as intense as the
second for me.  I was
rather under-dosed the first time ’round.  I am a
prenatal acid
casualty, how ever, and have the abilty to walk into
a room and point
out anyone who has even thought of tripping.  My
parents were(are)
heavily into psychedlics and now, dear old dad is on
a salvia thing.
My mom has been clean for 23 years.
As you can see, my attention span is still barely on
a functioning
level, and I’m wicked achey, but that should resolve
itself soon
enough, i hope.  I can’t focus my eyes as well as i
used to be able to
yet, and that kind of bothers me a bit. Do you have
any problems
visually, other than trailers when you wake up?
I don’t know if any of this helped, but I’m sure
you’ll get other
answers soon that are more knowledgeable than mine
:]
love to you
tink

On 6/17/05, Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all,

I have two questions regarding post-Ibo treatment:

It’s been 6 and a half weeks post for me, and the
first question is, has anyone experienced mild
visions
problems? I still see tracers at night and when I
first wake up.

Second, I didn’t experience any hallucinations or
my
childhood replayed for me during the session. Has
anyone experienced this? I’m told that this only
happens in about 10% of people.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tracers & the visionary aspect
Date: June 17, 2005 at 1:08:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m about two weeks out of my treatment and still seeing stars and
trailers and wiggly purpley thingies, not only in the morning,
afternoon and eveing,but if I move my head too fast, and occasionally
my ears ring, but who knows about that.  As for the hallucinations,
the first time wasn’t nearly as intense as the second for me.  I was
rather under-dosed the first time ’round.  I am a prenatal acid
casualty, how ever, and have the abilty to walk into a room and point
out anyone who has even thought of tripping.  My parents were(are)
heavily into psychedlics and now, dear old dad is on a salvia thing.
My mom has been clean for 23 years.
As you can see, my attention span is still barely on a functioning
level, and I’m wicked achey, but that should resolve itself soon
enough, i hope.  I can’t focus my eyes as well as i used to be able to
yet, and that kind of bothers me a bit. Do you have any problems
visually, other than trailers when you wake up?
I don’t know if any of this helped, but I’m sure you’ll get other
answers soon that are more knowledgeable than mine :]
love to you
tink

On 6/17/05, Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all,

I have two questions regarding post-Ibo treatment:

It’s been 6 and a half weeks post for me, and the
first question is, has anyone experienced mild visions
problems? I still see tracers at night and when I
first wake up.

Second, I didn’t experience any hallucinations or my
childhood replayed for me during the session. Has
anyone experienced this? I’m told that this only
happens in about 10% of people.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005 (#2005-669)
Date: June 17, 2005 at 12:53:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a very worthy post and describes the people most of us are up against and the whole insane act of no proper Ibogaine research funds. A great British (Scottish) politician recently took on a group of these people (minions of the Bush administration) , at their request and comprehensively fucked them…………. that a senate committee (and regime), rife with lies, corruption and ignorance who believe they’re being guided by god can have so much power given from right wing peers and still manage to fall flat on their arses when challenged by someone with sense , truth and spirit gives me the will to smile ………….Long Live George Galloway !!  ……….sjonny.

>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>,        <drugwar@mindvox.com>
>Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005 (#2005-669)
>Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:23:59 -0400
>
>From the article below, posted to Jules Siegel’s Newsroom-L email
>list for journalists, comes these two comments:
>
>”American officials lied to British ministers over the use of
>’internationally
>  reviled’ napalm-type firebombs in Iraq….The Iraq Analysis Group,
>which campaigned
>  against the war, said the US authorities only admitted the use of
>the weapons
>  after the evidence from reporters had become irrefutable.”
>
>Any planet where people who make weaponry that does this sort of
>thing to other people are respectable business folk, and people who
>grow and sell marijuana can be arrested on federal charges and be
>sentenced to years, up to life, in prison for doing so, is totally
>and completely insane.
>I just keep picturing that little girl in Vietnam running away from
>US napalm bombing. I keep thinking about all the photos I’ve seen of
>blown apart US servicemen, amputees and graphic bloody imagery of
>the injuries on line, the civilian Iraqis. And now this confirmation
>of the use of napalm-“like” weaponry on Iraqis too. Though the use
>of it on civilians is unknown at this point, it’s kinda hard to
>imagine that people crazy enough to not only order the making of but
>the use of too of this shit would have much hesitation over who it
>was used on if it served their bloody aims. The personal use of
>drugs is BAD, but dropping bombs on other countries, well hey now,
>that’s not such a big deal, and “why are we investigating those
>Downing Street memos anyway when we’ve got so many jobs being lost
>to illegal immigrants and outsourcing, why ain’t we investigatin’
>that?” (I heard some schmoe ask this question, in similar words, of
>Rep. Conyers yesterday on C-Span’s Washington Journal.)
>Anyway, please excuse the cross-post, but I wanted to share this bit
>of news, this graphic illustration of just how screwed up our
>socieities’ priorities are, for the most part, not speaking of most
>people on the DrugWar and Ibogaine lists, (nor Newsroom-L for that
>matter come to think of it).
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
>Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: “Sharin Bowers”
><SharinSharAlike@AOL.COM>
>To: <NEWSROOM-L@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
>Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:28 AM
>Subject: Re: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005
>(#2005-669)
>
>
>>A type of napalm is being used in Iraq. Napalm is illegal in
>>Britain and the
>>US lied to them. They said it was not used in Fallujah but it’s
>>hard to
>>believe anything out of their mouths now. No wonder the people in
>>Iraq have been
>>trouble getting kerosene, which they used for their heating and
>>lighting when
>>electricity was off. It used to be plentiful in Iraq.
>>
>>US lied to Britain over use of napalm in Iraq war
>>By Colin Brown, Deputy Political Editor
>>17 June 2005
>>source:
>>
>>http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=647397′
>>
>>
>>
>>NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc.
>>http://www.lsoft.com
>
>
>
>
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From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tracers & the visionary aspect
Date: June 17, 2005 at 12:47:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,

I have two questions regarding post-Ibo treatment:

It’s been 6 and a half weeks post for me, and the
first question is, has anyone experienced mild visions
problems? I still see tracers at night and when I
first wake up.

Second, I didn’t experience any hallucinations or my
childhood replayed for me during the session. Has
anyone experienced this? I’m told that this only
happens in about 10% of people.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 17, 2005 at 12:27:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi rachel,
I dont have a very good connection so I cannot read
that article right now.
I am with you on the lack of awareness among some men
towards the feminine.
Until imo an experience of the divine feminine is
awakened in men
they will go on abusing women as a form of hate or
denial of that feminine or simply out of
ignorance of what being a man is. But for that there
needs to be a real desire for healing- a facing of the
shadow imo.
I think the macho thing lives on and combined with
lack of awareness is
causing a great deal of sadness for men and for woman.
Love to you
Lee

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California
right now with our
spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she
talks all the time
about how the principle of motherhood is something
to be awakened in
both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think
of when I think of
Goddess, but your mileage may vary.

She spoke last night about how the women of the
world are getting
super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that
if we don’t watch
out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of
the female
principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I
felt it in my gut
this morning when I read this New York Times column
by Nicholas
Kristof,

which is about the court-ordered gang rape of
Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.
Very upsetting.  It
made me imagine what would happen if all the women
in the world
refused to bear children until men cleaned up their
act, or stopped
cooking and making love and being the nurturers.

How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard
about this story
months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like
this???  It’s not,
in other words, just about women getting in touch
with their inner
Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men
realizing they are fucking
themselves big time through the injuriou

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 17, 2005 at 12:22:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey m, how are ya feeling?
i hope as well as i am..
luv to you
tink

On 6/17/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello to all of Randy’s people! I’ve gotten to know Randy quite well now and
not many people have seen as big a transformation as I have. Randy and I go
back a bit of a way’s now with this. Isn’t that right Randy? So cool how all
of that came full circle. So proud of you dude.
Lookin forward to seein you soon. -M.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
HI MAMA!!!!
Love to you from tink, and welcome aboard!!

On 6/17/05, Ann B. Mullikin wrote:

Hi;

I’m L’il Randy’s grannieannie – can you tolerate three generations of us?
I
call LR “Rocky” on accounta of the
confusion factor. Well, anyway that’s besides the point. LR has two
counsins (boys) sons of BR (Big Randy)’s
younger brother. who were both diagnosied ADD and had been on meds for a
lot
of years. They are not taking those
meds now but have gone another route. Both are taking Essential Fatty
Acids
(Omega 3 and Omega 6 oils) with big
improvements. The reasearch behind the theory is facinating. If any
interest go to Pubmed and general searches
like Google and see for yourself.

GA, mama, ann, etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could
stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers)
and
although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the
pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken
to
court for this.

Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time
and
patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge
but the symptoms are pretty similar. Oh, and kids eat so much refined
carbo’s these days…. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a
calming effect on some….) it’s most likely the diet.

Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to
know.

Fanks

Kirk

________________________________

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I
just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with
ADHD
and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the
way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good
knowing
that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad
I
figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all
graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your
awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 17, 2005 at 10:38:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello to all of Randy’s people! I’ve gotten to know Randy quite well now and not many people have seen as big a transformation as I have. Randy and I go back a bit of a way’s now with this. Isn’t that right Randy? So cool how all of that came full circle. So proud of you dude.
Lookin forward to seein you soon. -M.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
HI MAMA!!!!
Love to you from tink, and welcome aboard!!

On 6/17/05, Ann B. Mullikin wrote:
>
> Hi;
>
> I’m L’il Randy’s grannieannie – can you tolerate three generations of us? I
> call LR “Rocky” on accounta of the
> confusion factor. Well, anyway that’s besides the point. LR has two
> counsins (boys) sons of BR (Big Randy)’s
> younger brother. who were both diagnosied ADD and had been on meds for a lot
> of years. They are not taking those
> meds now but have gone another route. Both are taking Essential Fatty Acids
> (Omega 3 and Omega 6 oils) with big
> improvements. The reasearch behind the theory is facinating. If any
> interest go to Pubmed and general searches
> like Google and see for yourself.
>
> GA, mama, ann, etc.
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Capt Kirk
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:24 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
>
>
>
>
> I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could
> stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers) and
> although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the
> pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken to
> court for this.
>
> Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time and
> patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge
> but the symptoms are pretty similar. Oh, and kids eat so much refined
> carbo’s these days…. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a
> calming effect on some….) it’s most likely the diet.
>
> Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to know.
>
> Fanks
>
> Kirk
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
>
>
>
>
> HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I
> just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD
> and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the
> way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing
> that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I
> figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all
> graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your
> awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!
>
>
>
>
>
> Randy

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005 (#2005-669)
Date: June 17, 2005 at 10:23:59 AM EDT
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From the article below, posted to Jules Siegel’s Newsroom-L email list for journalists, comes these two comments:

“American officials lied to British ministers over the use of ‘internationally
reviled’ napalm-type firebombs in Iraq….The Iraq Analysis Group, which campaigned
against the war, said the US authorities only admitted the use of the weapons
after the evidence from reporters had become irrefutable.”

Any planet where people who make weaponry that does this sort of thing to other people are respectable business folk, and people who grow and sell marijuana can be arrested on federal charges and be sentenced to years, up to life, in prison for doing so, is totally and completely insane.
I just keep picturing that little girl in Vietnam running away from US napalm bombing. I keep thinking about all the photos I’ve seen of blown apart US servicemen, amputees and graphic bloody imagery of the injuries on line, the civilian Iraqis. And now this confirmation of the use of napalm-“like” weaponry on Iraqis too. Though the use of it on civilians is unknown at this point, it’s kinda hard to imagine that people crazy enough to not only order the making of but the use of too of this shit would have much hesitation over who it was used on if it served their bloody aims. The personal use of drugs is BAD, but dropping bombs on other countries, well hey now, that’s not such a big deal, and “why are we investigating those Downing Street memos anyway when we’ve got so many jobs being lost to illegal immigrants and outsourcing, why ain’t we investigatin’ that?” (I heard some schmoe ask this question, in similar words, of Rep. Conyers yesterday on C-Span’s Washington Journal.)
Anyway, please excuse the cross-post, but I wanted to share this bit of news, this graphic illustration of just how screwed up our socieities’ priorities are, for the most part, not speaking of most people on the DrugWar and Ibogaine lists, (nor Newsroom-L for that matter come to think of it).

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sharin Bowers” <SharinSharAlike@AOL.COM>
To: <NEWSROOM-L@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [NEWSROOM-L] NEWSROOM-L Digest – 16 Jun 2005 (#2005-669)

A type of napalm is being used in Iraq. Napalm is illegal in Britain and the
US lied to them. They said it was not used in Fallujah but it’s hard to
believe anything out of their mouths now. No wonder the people in Iraq have been
trouble getting kerosene, which they used for their heating and lighting when
electricity was off. It used to be plentiful in Iraq.

US lied to Britain over use of napalm in Iraq war
By Colin Brown, Deputy Political Editor
17 June 2005
source:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=647397′

NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc. http://www.lsoft.com

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 17, 2005 at 9:34:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI MAMA!!!!
Love to you from tink, and welcome aboard!!

On 6/17/05, Ann B. Mullikin <think@francomm.com> wrote:

Hi;

I’m L’il Randy’s grannieannie – can you tolerate three generations of us?  I
call LR “Rocky” on accounta of the
confusion factor.  Well, anyway that’s besides the point.  LR has two
counsins (boys) sons of BR (Big Randy)’s
younger brother. who were both diagnosied ADD and had been on meds for a lot
of years.  They are not taking those
meds now but have gone another route.  Both are taking Essential Fatty Acids
(Omega 3 and Omega 6 oils) with big
improvements. The reasearch behind the theory is facinating.  If any
interest go to Pubmed and general searches
like Google and see for yourself.

GA, mama, ann, etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could
stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers) and
although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the
pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken to
court for this.

Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time and
patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge
but the symptoms are pretty  similar.  Oh, and kids eat so much refined
carbo’s these days…. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a
calming effect on some….) it’s most likely the diet.

Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to know.

Fanks

Kirk

________________________________

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I
just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD
and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the
way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing
that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I
figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all
graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your
awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 17, 2005 at 9:25:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi;

I’m L’il Randy’s grannieannie – can you tolerate three generations of us?  I call LR “Rocky” on accounta of the
confusion factor.  Well, anyway that’s besides the point.  LR has two counsins (boys) sons of BR (Big Randy)’s
younger brother. who were both diagnosied ADD and had been on meds for a lot of years.  They are not taking those
meds now but have gone another route.  Both are taking Essential Fatty Acids (Omega 3 and Omega 6 oils) with big
improvements. The reasearch behind the theory is facinating.  If any interest go to Pubmed and general searches
like Google and see for yourself.

GA, mama, ann, etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd

I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers) and although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken to court for this.
Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time and patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge but the symptoms are pretty  similar.  Oh, and kids eat so much refined carbo’s these days…. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a calming effect on some….) it’s most likely the diet.
Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to know.
Fanks
Kirk
From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 6:19:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anything else you do, I’d show him the Rites of Passage movie. It
tells the whole story from different sides and everyone speaks for
themselves but agrees with the same things. It isn’t that demanding to
watch what is a beautifully filmed movie and it’s not in your face or
obnoxious to him if his opinion really has some power to matter.

KV

On 6/17/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
This guy sounds like an idiot. And I know that he has never met Howard or
he would never say such a thing. All you have to do is be in the same room
with him and you can feel the love he has for all of us addicts, using or
not. It is probably hero worship on my part, but I was in such awe to be
around him and his wife when I met him, I swear I could feel understanding
coming from him. I think we should get him on the list like we did Peter
Cohen and let him see for himself what is going on with Ibogaine in the
world. Just the power of us sticking together is more therapeutic and
healthy than anything I ever came across in my years in the struggle. I for
one will try and bring this guy into the fold. He is a Doctor who
specializes in addiction? He needs to see what is going on here. I guess I
didn’t believe it at first when I read about Ibogaine either. I sho nuff do
now. We need this guy’s E mail address so we can shove the data at him.
There IS real data now and it is coming from all over the world. Of course I
guess you could say that this is all incidental, BULLSHIT, it worked for me,
I’ve never been clean (whatever that is) for this long without somebody
holding a gun to my head, court pressure or whatever. If all this dude will
look at is charts and shit like that then I think he needs to talk to MS
Mash and company down in Miami, or St. Kitts. SEEEEEEE I did this without
once ever threatening this dude with an asswh…………. fuck
……………shit ……………kick in the bal………….spit ball to
the forehead……………Damn I am such a redneck. O well, live and grow.
Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] what a fucking night: 12 Monkies and Interventions…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 6:00:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tink, the one thing I saw by hanging out with you is everyone around you loves you. Me too. Sometimes we forget how hard things are for our families to understand when we get addicted and then do whatever we have to do to stay that way. There has been a lot of pain that hasn’t been dealt with in my many years of addiction, and I still get that look from my family even though it has been 9 months now. They still get nervous when I’m not doing exactly what it is they think I should be doing. Ce’ la’ fuckin’ vie’. Follow your beautiful heart and make it so number one. Time heals a lot of wounds, I think it will heal some here. I think that one of the things that people don’t understand is taking Ibogaine is like doing 6 months worth of therapy in a 2 day period. It takes a while for our actions to catch up with what our brain has been through. It’s coming baby. I’m here for ya.         Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-cravi…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:43:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This guy sounds like an idiot. And I know that he has never met Howard or he would never say such a thing. All you have to do is be in the same room with him and you can feel the love he has for all of us addicts, using or not. It is probably hero worship on my part, but I was in such awe to be around him and his wife when I met him, I swear I could feel understanding coming from him. I think we should get him on the list like we did Peter Cohen and let him see for himself what is going on with Ibogaine in the world. Just the power of us sticking together is more therapeutic and healthy than anything I ever came across in my years in the struggle. I for one will try and bring this guy into the fold. He is a Doctor who specializes in addiction? He needs to see what is going on here. I guess I didn’t believe it at first when I read about Ibogaine either. I sho nuff do now. We need this guy’s E mail address so we can shove the data at him. There IS real data now and it is coming from all over the world. Of course I guess you could say that this is all incidental, BULLSHIT, it worked for me, I’ve never been clean (whatever that is) for this long without somebody holding a gun to my head, court pressure or whatever. If all this dude will look at is charts and shit like that then I think he needs to talk to MS Mash and company down in Miami, or St. Kitts. SEEEEEEE I did this without once ever threatening this dude with an asswh…………. fuck ……………shit ……………kick in the bal………….spit ball to the forehead……………Damn I am such a redneck. O well, live and grow.       Randy

From: “Kirsty” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] what a fucking night: 12 Monkies and Interventions…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 5:06:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yay tink, it’s all good dearest!!
hugs ya
Kirk

—- Original Message —-
From: tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] what a fucking night: 12 Monkies and
Interventions…
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:00:11 -0400

I’m curled up on the fold out couch at my sister’s house in
Burlington, all Pier One, all the way, and having a sort of brain
coniption fit.  I have had a night and a half with The Family.  They
decided that they were going to make me sit and spin on the whole
“Intervention”, due to the fabulously vapid “Quality Time” we were
spending with each other. Nobody wanted to ruin “the mood”.  I said,
very cleary, I believe, that I was NOT comfortable with that, and
that
I felt like there where huge twisters brewing on the horizon for me,
and that I was sorry  to interrupt everybodies good time, but I had
to
deal with this, as per the agreed upon schedule.  They have already
made me wait for this impending “Intervention” for the last 2 weeks,
and I wasn’t having any of it.
I said, as levelly as possible, that I felt that I wouldn’t be able
to
function due to the stress of waiting, that I had to force the issues
or crumble, and that I was dealing with MORE than enough in my own
mind without the added pressure of an impending ass-reaming.
They were not pleased.
I did not care, and forced the issue.
Well.  Lesson learned:  If you have twenty years worth of bullshit
waiting to explode in your face, tread LIGHTLY and carry a big stick.
It actually went a lot better than I thought it would, which was very
strange, in itself.  After the initial and stereo-typical crap that
flew for the first 20 minutes (we buried you a thousand times and had
no idea where you were, but we could certainly imagine…do you know
how much a collect call from jail in Miami costs…I lost my only
sister over HEROIN and COCAINE!!Do you have any idea what that’s done
to me and mom…how could you ever think that THAT was possibly an
okay alternative!!! – I’m sure you all get the gist.), it finally got
down to what was REALLY bothering everyone, and I have to admit that
they were 100% right.  I DID fall into old behaviors for the last two
weeks before I got treated again,  I DID do things I hadn’t done in a
very long time, for me, anyhow.  I WAS acting as though I was using,
because I was using for the last week and a half after I stopped the
suboxone.
It’s a trigger for them to feel panic, and I have no choice but to
respect that.  I want to, and DO respect that.  I have put them all
through a form of intense pain that  I had no idea about for a long
time, thinking that dropping off of the face of the planet was a
better alternative to keeping in touch as I spiralled the deepest
levels of Hell.
I knew that my being there had hurt them deeply, but I had no idea
how
deep that hurt can go until I saw my impressively non-expressive
brother in law cry tonight, and all because of me.  He reminded me
that he watched, for the past 15 years or so, as my family came
unglued, then re-glued as i went to the 29th rehab/detox, and then
imploded when I failed miserably. And the 34th.   And finally, this
last time.  Number 37.  (Holy shit, I owe alot of money to alot of
hospitals…)
He told me, haltingly, and with great effort, that he knew how happy
they were that I was here, and he acknowledged the work I’ve done,
and
done well, in the last 7 months, and reminded me, and my family, that
we were saying an awful lot, but missing what we were saying to each
other.
I have never felt so much clarity and sorrow and joy at the same
time.
I asked for a break on the “You have to quit smoking right now,
because I’m not going to have you get clean and then die of LUNG
cancer on me” bullshit, and that if I was still smoking after 31 Dec
2005, they were more than welcome to stick any foot of their’s up my
ass, but for fuck’s sake, please acknowledge that I have gotten off
of
heroin, methadone, coke, suboxone, and gawd knows what else, as well
as completing a semester in college at the top of my class, all while
working for them, doing ovef $100,000 in sales, for which they have
yet to pay me for, and all in under 8 months.
Take THAT, stick in your collective pipe, and smoke it!!
After much hair pullig and name calling, but ever-so-politically
correctly done (this is a house of serenity and joy, and I will NOT
have you raising your voice.  It might knock over my picture of the
Dali Lama.), we all agreed to disagree, but I know that they’ll still
be on my ass about the smoking stuff.  that’s not so bad.  I do want
to quit, but, as good friend once told me, “I have to have some kind
of adiction, or else I’ll disappear!”  I will quit by New Year’s Day.

I just need the crutch for the moment.  Are those some famous last
words, or what??!
Any hoo, thank you all for the love and support you’ve shown me!!  I
know I would’ve blown a gasket had those of you who were sending
positive thoughts my way (or what ever it was;}).
I learned alot about myself and my family tonight, and though it hurt
like hell, it was SOOOOO worth it!!
Love to you all, and thank you for everything!
tink

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 17, 2005 at 3:29:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Right,…..that’s it,….no one calls Howard a rat bag,
c’mon boys we got work to do.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “Boris Leshinsky” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from him (“Addict in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in reception is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a patient, I am grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it seems he is mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient. Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance, which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a good group or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend some drugs or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin, speed, addiction relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions and ask mine all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I was actually on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day, sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what he’d reccomend for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are the studies? These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40 years. Where is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is some person in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever that says it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I have about 1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but he argues that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that it works, he says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was tested back in the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an explanation of the difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine, the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from the medical establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical companies.. I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his book – he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may help sway a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] what a fucking night: 12 Monkies and Interventions…
Date: June 17, 2005 at 12:00:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m curled up on the fold out couch at my sister’s house in
Burlington, all Pier One, all the way, and having a sort of brain
coniption fit.  I have had a night and a half with The Family.  They
decided that they were going to make me sit and spin on the whole
“Intervention”, due to the fabulously vapid “Quality Time” we were
spending with each other. Nobody wanted to ruin “the mood”.  I said,
very cleary, I believe, that I was NOT comfortable with that, and that
I felt like there where huge twisters brewing on the horizon for me,
and that I was sorry  to interrupt everybodies good time, but I had to
deal with this, as per the agreed upon schedule.  They have already
made me wait for this impending “Intervention” for the last 2 weeks,
and I wasn’t having any of it.
I said, as levelly as possible, that I felt that I wouldn’t be able to
function due to the stress of waiting, that I had to force the issues
or crumble, and that I was dealing with MORE than enough in my own
mind without the added pressure of an impending ass-reaming.
They were not pleased.
I did not care, and forced the issue.
Well.  Lesson learned:  If you have twenty years worth of bullshit
waiting to explode in your face, tread LIGHTLY and carry a big stick.
It actually went a lot better than I thought it would, which was very
strange, in itself.  After the initial and stereo-typical crap that
flew for the first 20 minutes (we buried you a thousand times and had
no idea where you were, but we could certainly imagine…do you know
how much a collect call from jail in Miami costs…I lost my only
sister over HEROIN and COCAINE!!Do you have any idea what that’s done
to me and mom…how could you ever think that THAT was possibly an
okay alternative!!! – I’m sure you all get the gist.), it finally got
down to what was REALLY bothering everyone, and I have to admit that
they were 100% right.  I DID fall into old behaviors for the last two
weeks before I got treated again,  I DID do things I hadn’t done in a
very long time, for me, anyhow.  I WAS acting as though I was using,
because I was using for the last week and a half after I stopped the
suboxone.
It’s a trigger for them to feel panic, and I have no choice but to
respect that.  I want to, and DO respect that.  I have put them all
through a form of intense pain that  I had no idea about for a long
time, thinking that dropping off of the face of the planet was a
better alternative to keeping in touch as I spiralled the deepest
levels of Hell.
I knew that my being there had hurt them deeply, but I had no idea how
deep that hurt can go until I saw my impressively non-expressive
brother in law cry tonight, and all because of me.  He reminded me
that he watched, for the past 15 years or so, as my family came
unglued, then re-glued as i went to the 29th rehab/detox, and then
imploded when I failed miserably. And the 34th.   And finally, this
last time.  Number 37.  (Holy shit, I owe alot of money to alot of
hospitals…)
He told me, haltingly, and with great effort, that he knew how happy
they were that I was here, and he acknowledged the work I’ve done, and
done well, in the last 7 months, and reminded me, and my family, that
we were saying an awful lot, but missing what we were saying to each
other.
I have never felt so much clarity and sorrow and joy at the same time.
I asked for a break on the “You have to quit smoking right now,
because I’m not going to have you get clean and then die of LUNG
cancer on me” bullshit, and that if I was still smoking after 31 Dec
2005, they were more than welcome to stick any foot of their’s up my
ass, but for fuck’s sake, please acknowledge that I have gotten off of
heroin, methadone, coke, suboxone, and gawd knows what else, as well
as completing a semester in college at the top of my class, all while
working for them, doing ovef $100,000 in sales, for which they have
yet to pay me for, and all in under 8 months.
Take THAT, stick in your collective pipe, and smoke it!!
After much hair pullig and name calling, but ever-so-politically
correctly done (this is a house of serenity and joy, and I will NOT
have you raising your voice.  It might knock over my picture of the
Dali Lama.), we all agreed to disagree, but I know that they’ll still
be on my ass about the smoking stuff.  that’s not so bad.  I do want
to quit, but, as good friend once told me, “I have to have some kind
of adiction, or else I’ll disappear!”  I will quit by New Year’s Day.
I just need the crutch for the moment.  Are those some famous last
words, or what??!
Any hoo, thank you all for the love and support you’ve shown me!!  I
know I would’ve blown a gasket had those of you who were sending
positive thoughts my way (or what ever it was;}).
I learned alot about myself and my family tonight, and though it hurt
like hell, it was SOOOOO worth it!!
Love to you all, and thank you for everything!
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 16, 2005 at 10:11:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OH boyyyyyyyyy Boris!!!!  You obviously have a lot of patience, after the
second second I think I would have grabbed him by the back of the head and
begun bashing it on his desk, in a futile attempt to try and “break his head
open”!!!!!!  Well he asked, so dump as much stuff on him as you can and I am
sure others here will suggest other stuff…… who knows maybe it will get
thru???
And……….I’m still laughing…… HOWARD IS A RATBAG!!!!!!  ROFLMAO!!! I
haven’t met Howard in person…..but from what I do know….Love heaps to
Howard, you ratbag you!!!  :o)
Kirk xx

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris Leshinsky [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 1:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine
anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is
close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from him (“Addict in
the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in reception is
an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of H.
Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat to
him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am really
busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a patient, I am grateful
for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it seems he is
mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient.
Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book and
just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance, which I
now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a good group or
counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend some drugs or
whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin, speed, addiction
relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions and ask mine
all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I was actually on
my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day,
sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no
speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For
maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery
group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway between
the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that sells fits,
in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in their first
session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what he’d reccomend
for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought he
may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve been
looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have
been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I
have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say
acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract and
drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are the studies? These
people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40 years. Where is the
proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the providers,
talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is some person
in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever that says it
worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid Detox
people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance promoting a
dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my interpretation, dont
quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead trying
to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard Lotsof.. He
says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I have about 1
second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people taking
ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but he argues that
“yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that it works, he says
“No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in it.They
haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was tested back in the 60s
and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I continue
argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to squeeze into
the remaining half a second of my time an explanation of the difficulties of
the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine, the nuances of the
resistance to such a radical approach from the medical establishment, the
hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical companies..  I blurt out
something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and even restores
liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his book –
he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or if I
cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the surgery,
he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed patient,
stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading addiction
treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to say. I think
he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction treatment, but is too
firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset thats pervasive in the
medical establishment the world over about ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New
Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I also
want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may help sway a
skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:[Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials… Dr Andrew Byrne
Date: June 16, 2005 at 9:52:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
……..
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

So I went and had a bit of a chat to Dr Byrne yesterday. His surgery is close to my work and I wanted to get a copy of his book from him (“Addict in the Family”).

Walk in there and the only person that happens to be sitting in reception is an old friend of Mandy’s – the very one who gave her her first hit of H. Getting his bupe after another relapse. Interesting start to the experience.

Dr Byrne invites me into his office between patients (I had a quick chat to him on the phone already) and the first thing he says is “ok, I am really busy, you’ve got 4 seconds”. Fair enough, I am not a patient, I am grateful for any time he can spare to see me.

Dr Byrne specialises in prescribing methadone and bupe and it seems he is mostly interested in talking to me to see if he can get another patient. Which was not my intention in the slightest – I was just after the book and just wanted to ask him a couple of questions, if I had the chance, which I now did. Firstly, I wanted to ask if he can recommend a good group or counselor, preferably not NA. Secondly, if he can recommend some drugs or whatever for cravings.

He starts off asking me Mandy’s drug history with heroin, speed, addiction relapse patterns  etc and I’m trying to answer his questions and ask mine all in the allocated 4 seconds. Then he asks “Do you use speed?”
“No”.
“Then why are your pupils so large?”
“Err… caffeine and heavy metal”.
I have a bit of a laugh about this to myself and carry on. I was actually on my lunch break from work, so have been sitting at a computer all day, sipping copy, headphones on and the music loud (and fast). Definitely no speed in the system… something in the office tap water perhaps? For maximum productivity?

I asked him about the group stuff and he recommended the SMART Recovery group at St Vincent’s hospital. Conveniently located exactly halfway between the injection centre in Kings Cross and the nearest chemist that sells fits, in Surry Hills. I hope they cover “environmental cues” in their first session.

Anyway, now onto the relevant stuff. I asked him about what he’d reccomend for cravings. Having read his commentary, that Preston posted, I thought he may know something about that. I rattle off some of the things we’ve been looking into – gabapentin, vigabatrin, ghb, ibogaine…
“Forget ibogaine”, he says. “There is no proof that it works, there have been been no studies done…”
So I begin to argue that no, it does work and there has been research, I have spoken to people for whom it worked etc
“You can find someone that says anything worked.. One person will say acupuncture worked another says …. ” (something about vegimite extract and drinking a cup of tea or something, I think). “Where are the studies? These people have been talking about ibogaine for the past 40 years. Where is the proof? Where are the studies?”
“There have been studies… But all you need to do is talk to the providers, talk to the people it has helped.”
“Well, I think maybe there was one study.. But all you have is some person in Mexico, another in Brazil another somewhere else or whatever that says it worked. It doesn’t mean anything… Its like those Naltrexone Rapid Detox people” (draws some vague comparison about zealous ignorance promoting a dangerous and inaffective practice or something.. my interpretation, dont quote me on this part).
“I know one of them, in New York”, he says… Scrunches his forehead trying to remember the name.. I ask if its Patrick Kraupa or Howard Lotsof.. He says, yep, Howard.
“He is a ratbag”, he continues..
“Look, I’ve spoken to a dozen people for whom its worked.”
“What about the ones that died, have you spoken to them?”
“Yes, people have died.. but how many people has it helped?”
We continue to argue about this and that and those… I feel I have about 1 second of the allocated 4 left. I am rambling something about people taking ibogaine not even having the withdrawal from heroin, but he argues that “yes, they do”. I argue there is plenty of evidence that it works, he says “No, there isn’t. They haven’t even isolated the active chemical in it.They haven’t even done tests on animals…Methadone was tested back in the 60s and these people have had 40 years, where are the studies?”. I continue argueing he is a bit behind the times on this and attempt to squeeze into the remaining half a second of my time an explanation of the difficulties of the political climate facing the proponents of ibogaine, the nuances of the resistance to such a radical approach from the medical establishment, the hostile disinterest from the pharmaceutical companies..  I blurt out something about how it completely resets brain chemistry and even restores liver function..
I think it was at this point he said to me:
“You’re not thinking straight, I am very busy” and gets up to show me out…

And that was just about the jist of it. I gave him a donation for his book – he gave it to me and said I can make a donation if I can afford it, or if I cant thats ok too – and walked on out. As I was walking out of the surgery, he shouted towards me, over the shoulder of another blurry eyed patient, stumbling into his office:
“Send me any research you have that supports what you are saying!”

So there we are. This doctor is supposedly (??) one of the leading addiction treatment professionals in Australia. And thats what he had to say. I think he is genuinely open to new approaches to addiction treatment, but is too firmly entrenched in the same resistant mindset thats pervasive in the medical establishment the world over about ibogaine. Well, duh.

I do have a couple of things I want to send to him. An article in New Scientist recently, links to the Ibogaine.org site’s science page…  I also want to offer to lend him my copy of Rites of Passage. Why the hell not?

Anyone got any recommendations for information/studies that may help sway a skeptical doctor?

cheers
Boris

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:OT,l’il randy adhd
Date: June 16, 2005 at 8:24:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read online years ago that ADHD is a “made up” syndrome so they could stick kids on Ritalin and make em zombies (probably funded by teachers) and although I haven’t seen anything for a while the last I heard was the pharmaceutical company and the American psychiatric Ass. Were being taken to court for this.
Not saying you didn’t have something up, and it can take a load of time and patience to figure out if it’s food, additives blah blah the list is huge but the symptoms are pretty  similar.  Oh, and kids eat so much refined carbo’s these days…. It’s not the sugar (I’ve read that sugar CAN have a calming effect on some….) it’s most likely the diet.
Anyyyywayyyyyyyy, if anyone has heard more about this I would love to know.
Fanks
Kirk
From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] [OT] yahoo help
Date: June 16, 2005 at 8:17:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Vector.
Well, I am not using Yahoo (have done I fekkin hate it!!! And hotmail!!) I
get my mail into Outlook Express and have made a rule for all Ibogaine list
emails to go to the same place.  Most of em do but I have to check junk mail
cos there’s always some that make it in there.  Even if I create a rule just
for that person.  I don’t know what happened with Mathew’s emails but I get
his posts times three!!!!!!!!!  Whattup wit dat Mathew???  Maybe my server
thinks I’m senile and I have to read it more than once? Lol
Anyway, yes it is bluddy annoying!!
That didn’t help did it?
Kirk :o)

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 5:12 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] yahoo help

I don’t exactly expect anyone here to have a answer, but I figure it
can’t hurt to ask since there are a lot of technically competent people
here and a lot of people on yahoo, except I don’t think any of the
hax0rs are using yahoo, maybe that’s the message for me 🙂

I keep telling the yahoo mail filter that the ibogaine list is not
spam, it marks it and then it works and goes into my inbox like it
should. a week later it stops working and when I wonder why there are
no messages, they are all inside the bulk mailbox.

How do I make yahoo stop doing this stupid crap? It does work but a
week later it’s like some setting gets overwritten or lost and I have
to keep resetting it. The irony is that a huge amount of obvious spam
makes it through their filter anyway and is put inside my regular inbox
even though I have spam filtering set on aggressive mode 🙁

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 8:13:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Keith!!  Love the feral cat line, lol yep know that feeling too, but all
in good time aye (tick tock tick tock tick tock, chew finger nails to the
quick look at the calendar, tick tock tick tock)
Can I ask what part of the world you reside in?
I’m in New Zealand, south Island (and anyone is welcome to come stay…:o) )
So it’s a long way to go to find a provider (looking sideways at Jasen!!!
HURRYYYY  YUPPPPPPPPPPPP!! Lol)

Kirk xx

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 2:47 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I can relate to you on a general…I’ve been in the hole and climbed back
out more times than I care to admit..kinda way. I haven’t been treated with
Ibo and where I live may not have the opportunity unless I can afford a 1200
dollar adventure and a week worth of travel…ok…no excuses…I understand
because I have been through the getting well process a lot. Right now I am
not as well as I could be…I just keep telling myself that I am a highly
functional addict…truth is for me it’s a roller coaster that I want off,
like a bunch of other people I wish Ibogaine would sneak through my door and
pounce on me like a redeeming feral cat, but I know I got to go to it on my
own…..anyway I’m just empathizing with ya.

Hope you feel better soon,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

Thankyou…good analogy.  now if I could only move :]
And yes, the aches and pains are a drag and a half.  It hasn’t stopped
raining in a week, so add allergies and humidity to the mix, and i am
in soup mode.
There is no tub, and the showers have to be short thanks to a flooded
septic system.  Urgh.
how long till you felt “right?”  the first time i went through
treatment with ibogaine, I wasn’t nearly this wiped out.  I must be
getting oooooollllllldddd…..
love
tink

On 6/16/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of
aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they say,
as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the
bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest
bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t
calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate and
grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread their
wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore as
hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 8:06:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahhhh Mother’s and Daughter’s (or, at least in my case!) Can’t live with em,
Can’t shoot em (without being accused of MURDER for feks sake!! Geez..)But
in saying that, if I ever turn into my mother I will SHOOT ME!! LOL
Have you called her out on perhaps how very terrified she is that you might
fall off the wagon?  So to deal with that she dumps on ya and gets on your
case…..I mean you have every right to be very proud and yehhh having ya
mum say that to ya would be great, but then she isn’t in your head feeling
your strength and your joy for having kicked all that shit……orrrr maybe
she’s just a cow and needs a good kick up rear end!!
Just sum thoughts from the crusty dusty recesses of a mother :o)
Luff ya heaps, and I’m so proud of you!!!
Kirk xxxxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 5:31 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

There’s a shtupa (sp?) around the corner from my mom’s house, but i
doubt they have LSD :] It’s not so much that she’s saying that I’m a
bad perosn as much as I’m a lazy and unmotivated, selfish person.
Okay, so she’s calling me on all my shit, previous, present and
future.  Bitch.
I now get to go on a lovely trip tp my sister’s to be “Intervened”
upon for “my secrecy issues and their effect on our family unit” and
“operating in crisis mode”, which “causes much to much stress in the
home and with in the family”.  All i’ve done is get off of heroin,
methadone, cocaine, and suboxone, as well as finish an entire semester
at the top of my class while going to therapy 2-5 times weekly, and
all in the past 7 months.  How dare me!!!
They only point out what I haven’t done yet(like stopping smoking),
and what I should or could be doing.
You really never can go home…
love and thanks for all of you and your support.
All y’all make a huge difference in keeping me insanely sane!!!
as a once good friend once said,
WE’RE MAKING ENEMIES FASTER THAN WE CAN KILL THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
tink
On 6/16/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I’ve heard this rumor too, someone named Patrick went somewhere to a
buddist monastery and there was something about a lot of lsd and
mindvox. Can’t figure it all out 😉

I wouldn’t think that having your mom telling you what a bad person you
are a week after ibo would help a lot or do more then give you more
stress.

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/16/05 9:38:46 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
writes:

thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-

I’m glad you have a new therapist also. 😉 just teasing.  I hope
your new
therapist is worth a damn.  Please keep us informed.

My guess is you need a short vacation or a major career/life
opportunity to
invigorate you.  Certainly you don’t need arguing as it takes so much
energy.
I received an anonymous call from someone claiming to be from the
ibogaine
underground suggesting Buddhist retreats as a second act (aka post
ibogaine
therapy) following your ibogaine experience.

Howard

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__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Dr Tom..Neurontin
Date: June 16, 2005 at 7:51:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyy Dr Tom,
You have a great way of explaining stuff!!  Good on ya if you do this with
people you treat instead of treating them like eejits  (trust me I’m a
doctor you’re on a need to know basis and you don’t need to know
anything..you’re too stupid, lol)
Anyway, I was wondering if you have had any experience with the Neurontin
that has been discussed recently.  I have a friend who is on a/deps and
a/psycs but has a terrible problem with insomnia, and goes in awful cycles
which end up with him doing something stupid (usually alcohol induced)
swearing off drugs and alcohol then the cycle starts all over.  I’ve been
reading up about this stuff…..possibly could help him…
Anyway, just wanted to pick yer brains!!
Cheers heaps, I think I may do that honey test and see what happens!!

Koiky

—–Original Message—–
From: Tomo7 [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 2:38 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] sleepytime for tink

Get a liquid DMAE and take about 10 drops 3X a day…foul taste so
juice is OK  This will take a few days to increase acetylcholine
levels in the brain helping with memory and deeper sleep levels with
the parasympathetic nervous system.

Meanwhile a 1/3 tsp of clean seasalt in a glass of water in late
afternoon and 45 minutes before bed helps when the adrenal gland
cranks out too much cortisol and keeps people hyper at the wrong
time of the day. This is the issue in about 1/3 of the insomnia
cases I have encountered.

About another third are low blood sugar, which also hammers down on
the adrenal system from the back door so to speak. A low stress test
is about half a teaspoon of organic honey with a half a glass of
water sipped afterward, just before bed. When people snap awake
after only a few hours of sleep and can’t get back to sleep, this
low blood sugar is often at fault.  Have another half a tsp at the
nightstand to see if that helps.

Between the salt and sugar tricks, many people with your, er,
pharmaceutical “milage” have these underlying organ exhaustion
states that make sleep, and effective recovery from injury and
stress, really tricky. Good luck with your efforts. About a third of
my insomnia patients are not responding with a clean “cure” from all
my ideas. Various reasons. If you put it together and find something
works for you, please share it with the group.

The problem with weed for some of us is that it floods both
melatonin and a phyto-estrogen into the brain chemistry, and those
are both exhausting factors that decrease the effectiveness of rest
and oxygen. I like the amino acid theonine, at around 150mg an hour
before dinner and bedtime, with no other proteins. This also usually
helps, but not always.

Sorry if all this uncertainty makes you feel like a crash test
dummy, but you know how unique you really are? Well that just keeps
getting more unique when you get into the mysterious lands of your
biochemistry. Keep us all posted.

Dr. Tom

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody
Date: June 16, 2005 at 7:44:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kia Ora l’il Randy.
Your dad is pretty lucky, and so are you.
Kia Kaha (stay strong) and love lots and talk lots and wheel hair from you soon
Aroha (luff)
Kirsty Dawn
Aka Cappen Kirk
From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com [mailto:RowdyRandy420@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 2:19 p.m.
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody

Hello everybody! Im Lil. Randy. Big randy’s son. First of all I would like to appologize for my father’s insane mind! I know that you all have gotten alot of good laughs off him! I would just like everyone to know that the transformation my father went through has changed his and my life forever! I have always idolized and looked up to my father my whole life, and he is the strongest person that I know. I am so happy for him to have had the enormous weight lifted off his back,so now he can finaly do the things that the drugs held back. I know all of you know this already, but i just wanted my dad to know that I am so proud of the journey he has embarked on. I love you pop and Im so happy that you can now help save someone else’s life and lift their pain as well. Well, again hello to all and I look forward to chatting with each and everyone of you!                                                                 Be Strong!!!!!!!!!

Randy

Randy

From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 16, 2005 at 6:50:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you!  That’s kind of what I thought, but just wanted to know.  Trying
to get all this amazing stuff clear.

By the way, on a side note, I love the definition of entheobotany (the study
of G-d-containing plants).  That is pretty much what I think of Iboga,
definitely a G-d containing plant!

Take care all!
beatriceblue

On 6/16/05 2:23 PM, “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 14.06.2005 um 22:43 schrieb Beatrice Blue:

How is the Ethnogarden’s extract different from Indra’s?  Anyone know?
Seems very expensive comparatively.  Just curious.

Thanks!
beatriceblue

the ethnogarden extract is pure alkaloids while what is usually labeled
“extract” is concentrated root bark with something between 3 to 15%
alkaloids, afaik. the ethnostuff sounds interesting, maybe it feels
like somewhere in the middle between HCl and rootbark.

i wonder if the ethnogarden extract isn´t HCl, too? and how “ordinary”
extract is made out of the root bark?

-ekki

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 6:44:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi guys, going in for the second Herpes blood test right now.  I’ve gotten be sure.  We’ll see.  Still not holding my breath though.  Won’t get results for 7-10 days.  I’ll let you know when I know.

Namaste
Beatrice

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 6:15:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/16/2005 2:29:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Knowing Randy and imagining Randy (elder) in s & m garb, whip or crop in
hand, makes me break out in a big smile, which I kinda needed right about
now, so thanks Tink
I’ll take the riding crop since I come from KY. I’ve gotta get me one of those ball gags too. It’s so annoying hearing all that screamin’ and shit.    Randy

From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 16, 2005 at 5:52:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On a sad note this company won’t ship to the US (Where I Live)

-Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:23 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

Am 14.06.2005 um 22:43 schrieb Beatrice Blue:

How is the Ethnogarden’s extract different from Indra’s?  Anyone know?
Seems very expensive comparatively.  Just curious.

Thanks!
beatriceblue

the ethnogarden extract is pure alkaloids while what is usually labeled
“extract” is concentrated root bark with something between 3 to 15%
alkaloids, afaik. the ethnostuff sounds interesting, maybe it feels
like somewhere in the middle between HCl and rootbark.

i wonder if the ethnogarden extract isn´t HCl, too? and how “ordinary”
extract is made out of the root bark?

-ekki

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 16, 2005 at 5:23:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 14.06.2005 um 22:43 schrieb Beatrice Blue:

How is the Ethnogarden’s extract different from Indra’s?  Anyone know?
Seems very expensive comparatively.  Just curious.

Thanks!
beatriceblue

the ethnogarden extract is pure alkaloids while what is usually labeled “extract” is concentrated root bark with something between 3 to 15% alkaloids, afaik. the ethnostuff sounds interesting, maybe it feels like somewhere in the middle between HCl and rootbark.

i wonder if the ethnogarden extract isn´t HCl, too? and how “ordinary” extract is made out of the root bark?

-ekki

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] gabapentin
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:59:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schmoolyboy,

” Take a look at Lamictal in the US PDR.”

My mail is broken (Yahoo eats some but not all of the ibogaine posts) and all I see withoiut downloading the thread is your comment out of context to anythin, cept the subject came throuh.

I have been on both (to name a few), THEY BOTH SUCK, lamictil was the most horrid medication I have been on in my life, it took half a year+ after I stopped (made it to 3 days on 2 pills working up from 1-4, 10- days 1 pill-25mg a day).for the side effects to lighten up considerably/wash out. That is me, I invariably have all the negative side effects and little of the positive effects, like for pain and mood improvement (yeah, right). Some people like them and do fine, sometimes doctors and patients are not aware of or admit the sometimes quite severe side effects. I strongly suggest to anyone taking any mind/mood altering medications to observe your mood/feelings/thoughts/behavior… and be observed, often they talk about the wonderful effects and (for not so obvious reasons) none of the nasty side effects. Careful when discontinuing those meds also – AND IT IS UP TO YOU, your ass, strongly suggest double checking (sanity check) what the doctor is doing, how you are feeling, that it is helping – I am a “BAD PATIENT”, highly uncooperative that I complain about side effects, likely it is I want DRUGS… or something.

Brett

Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
Take a look at Lamictal in the US PDR.

Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:46:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HeHe, tink that doesnt sound so bad! But yeah, im good on the speed too, I just needed something that rhymed with weed! I have been diagnosed with ADHD and took aderall for like a year and a half. then one day I didnt like the way they made me feel so I havent taken any ever since. I feel good knowing that my body doesnt have to depend on a pill to start my day. Im just glad I figured that out so quick because all of my friends that took it have all graduated to methadone clinics! I dont know why. But anyways Tink your awesome!!!! Stay strong sweetie!

Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey all, send anti intervention vibes at around 6
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:26:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll do a similar thing, while dj’ing good old rock/punk at The Rock Show, on W. 21st. tonight, a play where I dj while the crowd fills the theator, about 40 minutes, then I sit through the hour and a half play/concert then dj again for another 20/30 minutes as the show wraps up. I’ll be starting after about an hour of family stress session, so I hope it helps the vibes, you knowing I’ll think of your session while playing the music. “I’m Not Alright” by My Chemical Romance perhaps, along with whatever else occurs to me. “Black Tamborine” on the new Beck disc is fucking awesome.
anyway, hope it helps.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey all, send anti intervention vibes at around 6

>I love to… if you see a smoke ring, you would know it’s that O from >OMMMM

S.

I’m off for a night of family torture, and am trying to take it all
with a grain of salt, but not doing to well about it.  I don’t quite
understand their need to point out everything that I haven’t done with
my life yet, but what’s a freak to do.
As I get the ass-reaming of the century, round about 6ish tonight,
somebody, ANYBODY, somewhere, smoke a big fattie for me and send some
calming thoughts toward the North East Kingdom.
I have no doubt that I will start hearing nothing but the voice of the
teacher from the Peanuts; “Whawhanwhanwhanwhanwhan.”
:0
love and ohshit,
tink(inhell)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:22:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Knowing Randy and imagining Randy (elder) in s & m garb, whip or crop in hand, makes me break out in a big smile, which I kinda needed right about now, so thanks Tink.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Now there’s the power of positive thinking hard at work… :]
I think that weed should be mandatory for certain personality types (
my own included), but I’m good on the speed, most of the drugs, the
birth control, probably sex for the time being, and the world has
definately fucked itself, so why beat a dead horse ;]
Keep on rockin’ in the new world, Rowdy One…
love to ya
tink
you country boys sure like to open them cans of  whoop ass…
You should try the S&M world, and get paid HUGE for it!
On 6/16/05, RowdyRandy420@aol.com <RowdyRandy420@aol.com> wrote:

Well everyone as you can see, although that my father is a really laid back
guy, he is the LAST person I would ever want to fuck with! I feel sorry for
the poor bastard that makes him an enemy! Cause if it comes to it, he will
be getting two generations of ass whippings aint that right daddy!!!! hehe
But who cares, lets just spark one up and forget about it!!!!

SEX, DRUGS, ROCK “N ROLL. SPEED, WEED, BIRTH CONTROL. lIFE’S A BITCH, THEN
YOU DIE. FUCK THE WORLD, LETS GET HIGH!!!!

Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Conference Registration Now Open
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:18:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ethan Nadelmann, DPAlliance
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:06 PM
Subject: Conference Registration Now Open

June 16, 2005
manage my subscription | text version

Online Registration for International Drug Policy Reform Conference: Now Open!
Join Us in Building an Ever More Powerful Movement


Dear Preston,

Please join the Alliance and 30 other organizations in building a movement for reason, compassion and justice at this year’s international drug policy reform conference. Online registration is now open, and signing up early will keep your cost down and ensure that you get a spot! Alliance members save on the registration cost, so if you are not already a member, you can join here.
The conference is November 10-12 in Long Beach, California. We expect more than a thousand people, including experts, students, community activists, and other advocates for reform from all over the world. Sessions will address the entire range of drug policy reform issues from marijuana, methamphetamine, heroin and ayahuasca to advocacy strategies, legal issues, new developments in harm reduction, and reform efforts around the world. (Read more about topics that will be covered here).
Whether you are an activist, elected official, criminal justice professional or reform advocate, public health administrator, health care or drug treatment professional, educator, student, person in recovery, or a family member or friend of a drug war prisoner this conference is for you!
This is the perfect opportunity for all of us to bring together our energy and skills to strategize and mobilize for reform. I can’t wait to see you there! Together, we are building an ever more powerful movement to end the war on drugs. Please register here.

Sincerely,
To Contact or Make a Donation by Mail to the Drug Policy Alliance:
Drug Policy Alliance
70 West 36th Street, 16th Floor
New York, NY 10018

Get a PDF copy of the Donation Form. For subscription problems please contact Jeanette Irwin, Director, Internet Communications jirwin@drugpolicy.org, 202.216.0035

DrugPolicy.org | Take Action | Donate | Privacy Policy

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Please consider joining the Drug Policy Alliance: http://www.drugpolicy.org/join

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey all, send anti intervention vibes at around 6
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:08:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love to… if you see a smoke ring, you would know it’s that O from OMMMM

S.

I’m off for a night of family torture, and am trying to take it all
with a grain of salt, but not doing to well about it.  I don’t quite
understand their need to point out everything that I haven’t done with
my life yet, but what’s a freak to do.
As I get the ass-reaming of the century, round about 6ish tonight,
somebody, ANYBODY, somewhere, smoke a big fattie for me and send some
calming thoughts toward the North East Kingdom.
I have no doubt that I will start hearing nothing but the voice of the
teacher from the Peanuts; “Whawhanwhanwhanwhanwhan.”
:0
love and ohshit,
tink(inhell)

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:03:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now there’s the power of positive thinking hard at work… :]
I think that weed should be mandatory for certain personality types (
my own included), but I’m good on the speed, most of the drugs, the
birth control, probably sex for the time being, and the world has
definately fucked itself, so why beat a dead horse ;]
Keep on rockin’ in the new world, Rowdy One…
love to ya
tink
you country boys sure like to open them cans of  whoop ass…
You should try the S&M world, and get paid HUGE for it!
On 6/16/05, RowdyRandy420@aol.com <RowdyRandy420@aol.com> wrote:

Well everyone as you can see, although that my father is a really laid back
guy, he is the LAST person I would ever want to fuck with! I feel sorry for
the poor bastard that makes him an enemy! Cause if it comes to it, he will
be getting two generations of ass whippings aint that right daddy!!!!  hehe
But who cares, lets just spark one up and forget about it!!!!

SEX, DRUGS, ROCK “N ROLL. SPEED, WEED, BIRTH CONTROL. lIFE’S A BITCH, THEN
YOU DIE. FUCK THE WORLD, LETS GET HIGH!!!!

Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:59:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They only point out what I haven’t done yet(like stopping smoking)<

Oh my god, I hear you on this one. I’m wearing a patch. Does it help? No.
The worst part of it is I know my significant other is RIGHT when she tells me I have to quit, because damnit I can feel it clogging me up and hurting me, affecting my physical and mental states. But I like smoking too, for some weird reason, even with the preceding sentence always in my mind. It’s hard though, having someone really riding me hard about smoking cigarettes when I’m having enough fucking trouble with opiates. What the fuck? Of course, the smoking invades her space though, true enough, and can smell really fucking bad to someone who only smokes when she wants, the occasional drag or three then put it out. She isn’t a smoker unless she wants to be, which really boggles my mind.
But anyway, I hear you here Tink.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

There’s a shtupa (sp?) around the corner from my mom’s house, but i
doubt they have LSD :] It’s not so much that she’s saying that I’m a
bad perosn as much as I’m a lazy and unmotivated, selfish person.
Okay, so she’s calling me on all my shit, previous, present and
future.  Bitch.
I now get to go on a lovely trip tp my sister’s to be “Intervened”
upon for “my secrecy issues and their effect on our family unit” and
“operating in crisis mode”, which “causes much to much stress in the
home and with in the family”.  All i’ve done is get off of heroin,
methadone, cocaine, and suboxone, as well as finish an entire semester
at the top of my class while going to therapy 2-5 times weekly, and
all in the past 7 months.  How dare me!!!
They only point out what I haven’t done yet(like stopping smoking),
and what I should or could be doing.
You really never can go home…
love and thanks for all of you and your support.
All y’all make a huge difference in keeping me insanely sane!!!
as a once good friend once said,
WE’RE MAKING ENEMIES FASTER THAN WE CAN KILL THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
tink
On 6/16/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I’ve heard this rumor too, someone named Patrick went somewhere to a
buddist monastery and there was something about a lot of lsd and
mindvox. Can’t figure it all out 😉

I wouldn’t think that having your mom telling you what a bad person you
are a week after ibo would help a lot or do more then give you more
stress.

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 6/16/05 9:38:46 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
> writes:
>
> >thank gawd I
> >have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
> >paralyzed-
>
> I’m glad you have a new therapist also. 😉 just teasing.  I hope
> your new
> therapist is worth a damn.  Please keep us informed.
>
> My guess is you need a short vacation or a major career/life
> opportunity to
> invigorate you.  Certainly you don’t need arguing as it takes so much
> energy.
> I received an anonymous call from someone claiming to be from the
> ibogaine
> underground suggesting Buddhist retreats as a second act (aka post
> ibogaine
> therapy) following your ibogaine experience.
>
> Howard
>
>
>
>
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hey all, send anti intervention vibes at around 6
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:58:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m off for a night of family torture, and am trying to take it all
with a grain of salt, but not doing to well about it.  I don’t quite
understand their need to point out everything that I haven’t done with
my life yet, but what’s a freak to do.
As I get the ass-reaming of the century, round about 6ish tonight,
somebody, ANYBODY, somewhere, smoke a big fattie for me and send some
calming thoughts toward the North East Kingdom.
I have no doubt that I will start hearing nothing but the voice of the
teacher from the Peanuts; “Whawhanwhanwhanwhanwhan.”
:0
love and ohshit,
tink(inhell)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:54:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well everyone as you can see, although that my father is a really laid back guy, he is the LAST person I would ever want to fuck with! I feel sorry for the poor bastard that makes him an enemy! Cause if it comes to it, he will be getting two generations of ass whippings aint that right daddy!!!!  hehe But who cares, lets just spark one up and forget about it!!!!

SEX, DRUGS, ROCK “N ROLL. SPEED, WEED, BIRTH CONTROL. lIFE’S A BITCH, THEN YOU DIE. FUCK THE WORLD, LETS GET HIGH!!!!

Randy

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:41:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jasen, yup, everyone loves the old man so he must be doing something right!! Also, I think that this list is awesome!! Its hard for me to believe that so many people from so many places are speaking out and taking actions to help people that they dont even really know! i just wish all of the junkies in the world could have a chance to get online and hopefully change their lives. But thanks for the note and i look foreward to cahtting with you some more.

Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:30:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s a shtupa (sp?) around the corner from my mom’s house, but i
doubt they have LSD :] It’s not so much that she’s saying that I’m a
bad perosn as much as I’m a lazy and unmotivated, selfish person.
Okay, so she’s calling me on all my shit, previous, present and
future.  Bitch.
I now get to go on a lovely trip tp my sister’s to be “Intervened”
upon for “my secrecy issues and their effect on our family unit” and
“operating in crisis mode”, which “causes much to much stress in the
home and with in the family”.  All i’ve done is get off of heroin,
methadone, cocaine, and suboxone, as well as finish an entire semester
at the top of my class while going to therapy 2-5 times weekly, and
all in the past 7 months.  How dare me!!!
They only point out what I haven’t done yet(like stopping smoking),
and what I should or could be doing.
You really never can go home…
love and thanks for all of you and your support.
All y’all make a huge difference in keeping me insanely sane!!!
as a once good friend once said,
WE’RE MAKING ENEMIES FASTER THAN WE CAN KILL THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
tink
On 6/16/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I’ve heard this rumor too, someone named Patrick went somewhere to a
buddist monastery and there was something about a lot of lsd and
mindvox. Can’t figure it all out 😉

I wouldn’t think that having your mom telling you what a bad person you
are a week after ibo would help a lot or do more then give you more
stress.

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/16/05 9:38:46 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
writes:

thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-

I’m glad you have a new therapist also. 😉 just teasing.  I hope
your new
therapist is worth a damn.  Please keep us informed.

My guess is you need a short vacation or a major career/life
opportunity to
invigorate you.  Certainly you don’t need arguing as it takes so much
energy.
I received an anonymous call from someone claiming to be from the
ibogaine
underground suggesting Buddhist retreats as a second act (aka post
ibogaine
therapy) following your ibogaine experience.

Howard

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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] yahoo help
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:12:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t exactly expect anyone here to have a answer, but I figure it
can’t hurt to ask since there are a lot of technically competent people
here and a lot of people on yahoo, except I don’t think any of the
hax0rs are using yahoo, maybe that’s the message for me 🙂

I keep telling the yahoo mail filter that the ibogaine list is not
spam, it marks it and then it works and goes into my inbox like it
should. a week later it stops working and when I wonder why there are
no messages, they are all inside the bulk mailbox.

How do I make yahoo stop doing this stupid crap? It does work but a
week later it’s like some setting gets overwritten or lost and I have
to keep resetting it. The irony is that a huge amount of obvious spam
makes it through their filter anyway and is put inside my regular inbox
even though I have spam filtering set on aggressive mode 🙁

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 1:07:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve heard this rumor too, someone named Patrick went somewhere to a
buddist monastery and there was something about a lot of lsd and
mindvox. Can’t figure it all out 😉

I wouldn’t think that having your mom telling you what a bad person you
are a week after ibo would help a lot or do more then give you more
stress.

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 6/16/05 9:38:46 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com
writes:

thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-

I’m glad you have a new therapist also. 😉 just teasing.  I hope
your new
therapist is worth a damn.  Please keep us informed.

My guess is you need a short vacation or a major career/life
opportunity to
invigorate you.  Certainly you don’t need arguing as it takes so much
energy.
I received an anonymous call from someone claiming to be from the
ibogaine
underground suggesting Buddhist retreats as a second act (aka post
ibogaine
therapy) following your ibogaine experience.

Howard

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__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 11:51:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/16/05 9:38:46 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-

I’m glad you have a new therapist also. 😉 just teasing.  I hope your new
therapist is worth a damn.  Please keep us informed.

My guess is you need a short vacation or a major career/life opportunity to
invigorate you.  Certainly you don’t need arguing as it takes so much energy.
I received an anonymous call from someone claiming to be from the ibogaine
underground suggesting Buddhist retreats as a second act (aka post ibogaine
therapy) following your ibogaine experience.

Howard

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 11:42:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

6 hours.

S.

Thank you muchly, Sara!  What’s the time difference from Vermont to You?
love tink

On 6/16/05, sara119@xs4all.nl <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Hi Tink,

Your Mom can call me if she wishes then I will try to explain as good as
I
can
to her that You are drained to bones, and that it is just a reaction to
being detoxed that quickly.

I’m at 011-31-346-241770.  you can tell her that I have been doing this
since 1999 and that I speak from experience.

all the best,

sara

Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze
of
aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.”
they
say, as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into
the
bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the
hottest
bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I
can’t
calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to
hibernate
and grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must
spread
their wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably
sore
as hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 11:15:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you muchly, Sara!  What’s the time difference from Vermont to You?
love tink

On 6/16/05, sara119@xs4all.nl <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Hi Tink,

Your Mom can call me if she wishes then I will try to explain as good as I
can
to her that You are drained to bones, and that it is just a reaction to
being detoxed that quickly.

I’m at 011-31-346-241770.  you can tell her that I have been doing this
since 1999 and that I speak from experience.

all the best,

sara

Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of
aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they
say, as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the
bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest
bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t
calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate
and grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread
their wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore
as hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 10:47:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can relate to you on a general…I’ve been in the hole and climbed back out more times than I care to admit..kinda way. I haven’t been treated with Ibo and where I live may not have the opportunity unless I can afford a 1200 dollar adventure and a week worth of travel…ok…no excuses…I understand because I have been through the getting well process a lot. Right now I am not as well as I could be…I just keep telling myself that I am a highly functional addict…truth is for me it’s a roller coaster that I want off, like a bunch of other people I wish Ibogaine would sneak through my door and pounce on me like a redeeming feral cat, but I know I got to go to it on my own…..anyway I’m just empathizing with ya.

Hope you feel better soon,

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

Thankyou…good analogy.  now if I could only move :]
And yes, the aches and pains are a drag and a half.  It hasn’t stopped
raining in a week, so add allergies and humidity to the mix, and i am
in soup mode.
There is no tub, and the showers have to be short thanks to a flooded
septic system.  Urgh.
how long till you felt “right?”  the first time i went through
treatment with ibogaine, I wasn’t nearly this wiped out.  I must be
getting oooooollllllldddd…..
love
tink

On 6/16/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they say, as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate and grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread their wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore as hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 10:43:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Tink,

Your Mom can call me if she wishes then I will try to explain as good as I
can
to her that You are drained to bones, and that it is just a reaction to
being detoxed that quickly.

I’m at 011-31-346-241770.  you can tell her that I have been doing this
since 1999 and that I speak from experience.

all the best,

sara

Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of
aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they
say, as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the
bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest
bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t
calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate
and grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread
their wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore
as hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 10:20:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou…good analogy.  now if I could only move :]
And yes, the aches and pains are a drag and a half.  It hasn’t stopped
raining in a week, so add allergies and humidity to the mix, and i am
in soup mode.
There is no tub, and the showers have to be short thanks to a flooded
septic system.  Urgh.
how long till you felt “right?”  the first time i went through
treatment with ibogaine, I wasn’t nearly this wiped out.  I must be
getting oooooollllllldddd…..
love
tink

On 6/16/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they say, as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate and grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread their wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore as hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 10:14:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tink,

I can relate to having no energy and moving through the day in a haze of aches pains, and no one around me understanding…”You look fine.” they say, as I try to focus on their words. well, if fine is stumbling into the bathroom every three hrs at any time of day and night to run the hottest bath I can stand then wow, your right!

Anyway I feel ya…comfort yourself and move at your own pace…I can’t calm your mother down but it sounds like you need this time to hibernate and grow. When butterflies first come out of the cocoon they must spread their wings to dry, during this time they are very weak and probably sore as hell…..you’ll fly soon enough.

Keith

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:39 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lazy or Fried…
Date: June 16, 2005 at 9:38:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been arguing with my mother all morning about my lack of energy
post treatment.  She seems to think that i just don’t want to get off
my ass, when in reality, I CAN’T just yet.  I’ve gotten much more
energy in the last 10 or so days, but am not quite back to myself yet,
and partly because I still am just not sleeping yet.
Is there some thing someone has i can Fwd to her about this?  She’s
driving me freaking crazy!!!  I’M driving me crazy, trying to parry
and thrust with the arguments, and it’s not going so well.  What
little energy I do have is being devoured by stress.  thank gawd I
have a new therapist and will be meeting with him this week…
paralyzed-
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] morning sunshines
Date: June 16, 2005 at 8:48:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“I think she got mad.  She said the mystery of life isn’t a problem to
solve, but a reality to experience.  So I quoted the First Law of
Mentat at her:  A process cannot be understood by stopping it.
Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and
flow with it.  it seemed to satisfy her.”
-from Dune

love tink

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody
Date: June 16, 2005 at 6:58:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Lil Randy,

I love your father.

with love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 12:19 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody

Hello everybody! Im Lil. Randy. Big randy’s son. First of all I would like to appologize for my father’s insane mind! I know that you all have gotten alot of good laughs off him! I would just like everyone to know that the transformation my father went through has changed his and my life forever! I have always idolized and looked up to my father my whole life, and he is the strongest person that I know. I am so happy for him to have had the enormous weight lifted off his back,so now he can finaly do the things that the drugs held back. I know all of you know this already, but i just wanted my dad to know that I am so proud of the journey he has embarked on. I love you pop and Im so happy that you can now help save someone else’s life and lift their pain as well. Well, again hello to all and I look forward to chatting with each and everyone of you!                                                                 Be Strong!!!!!!!!!

Randy

Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lit Randy & Big Randy
Date: June 16, 2005 at 6:11:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi guys
Its so fucken cool to hear families mending their relationshiops by the grace of ibogaie……FUCKEN A!!!!!!!!
Lil Randy u must be so proud and rightly so!!!…….Love u and all the best
Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 3:08:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/15/2005 6:54:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:
Marc Emery
I guess the world woke up. Marc you owe me 50 dollars. Where is it? Never
mind, keep it. Things have a way of working themselves out. I got my
Ibogaine
treatment without you. You should have told me in the begining that I
couldn’t
come there. But, maybe I grew a little waiting for the rainbow.
Randy

Randy,

you are not the only one.I had people coming from Canada here just because
of that.

Sara

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 16, 2005 at 2:32:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/15/2005 6:54:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:
Marc Emery
I guess the world woke up. Marc you owe me 50 dollars. Where is it? Never mind, keep it. Things have a way of working themselves out. I got my Ibogaine treatment without you. You should have told me in the begining that I couldn’t come there. But, maybe I grew a little waiting for the rainbow.                 Randy

From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody
Date: June 15, 2005 at 10:34:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Tink, I have heard so many good things about you! Yea I know he rocks and he always has. I dont think there is anyone like him in the whole world, but thank god cause I dont think the world could handle anymore than two randy’s! If you havent heard me and my father are pretty much identical! congrats on your transformation also! well nice to finaly chat with ya. Later

Randy

From: “Tomo7” <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sleepytime for tink
Date: June 15, 2005 at 10:37:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Get a liquid DMAE and take about 10 drops 3X a day…foul taste so
juice is OK  This will take a few days to increase acetylcholine
levels in the brain helping with memory and deeper sleep levels with
the parasympathetic nervous system.

Meanwhile a 1/3 tsp of clean seasalt in a glass of water in late
afternoon and 45 minutes before bed helps when the adrenal gland
cranks out too much cortisol and keeps people hyper at the wrong
time of the day. This is the issue in about 1/3 of the insomnia
cases I have encountered.

About another third are low blood sugar, which also hammers down on
the adrenal system from the back door so to speak. A low stress test
is about half a teaspoon of organic honey with a half a glass of
water sipped afterward, just before bed. When people snap awake
after only a few hours of sleep and can’t get back to sleep, this
low blood sugar is often at fault.  Have another half a tsp at the
nightstand to see if that helps.

Between the salt and sugar tricks, many people with your, er,
pharmaceutical “milage” have these underlying organ exhaustion
states that make sleep, and effective recovery from injury and
stress, really tricky. Good luck with your efforts. About a third of
my insomnia patients are not responding with a clean “cure” from all
my ideas. Various reasons. If you put it together and find something
works for you, please share it with the group.

The problem with weed for some of us is that it floods both
melatonin and a phyto-estrogen into the brain chemistry, and those
are both exhausting factors that decrease the effectiveness of rest
and oxygen. I like the amino acid theonine, at around 150mg an hour
before dinner and bedtime, with no other proteins. This also usually
helps, but not always.

Sorry if all this uncertainty makes you feel like a crash test
dummy, but you know how unique you really are? Well that just keeps
getting more unique when you get into the mysterious lands of your
biochemistry. Keep us all posted.

Dr. Tom

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody
Date: June 15, 2005 at 10:26:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!
your dad rox the fuck out!!
glad you made it, and looking forward to talking to you.
No need to apologize here for insanity, trust…
your posting was right on time for your dad by the way.
you rock too!!!
love and hugs
tink

On 6/15/05, RowdyRandy420@aol.com <RowdyRandy420@aol.com> wrote:

Hello everybody! Im Lil. Randy. Big randy’s son. First of all I would like
to appologize for my father’s insane mind! I know that you all have gotten
alot of good laughs off him! I would just like everyone to know that the
transformation my father went through has changed his and my life forever! I
have always idolized and looked up to my father my whole life, and he is the
strongest person that I know. I am so happy for him to have had the enormous
weight lifted off his back,so now he can finaly do the things that the drugs
held back. I know all of you know this already, but i just wanted my dad to
know that I am so proud of the journey he has embarked on. I love you pop
and Im so happy that you can now help save someone else’s life and lift
their pain as well. Well, again hello to all and I look forward to chatting
with each and everyone of you!
Be Strong!!!!!!!!!

Randy

Randy

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From: RowdyRandy420@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hey everybody
Date: June 15, 2005 at 10:19:16 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everybody! Im Lil. Randy. Big randy’s son. First of all I would like to appologize for my father’s insane mind! I know that you all have gotten alot of good laughs off him! I would just like everyone to know that the transformation my father went through has changed his and my life forever! I have always idolized and looked up to my father my whole life, and he is the strongest person that I know. I am so happy for him to have had the enormous weight lifted off his back,so now he can finaly do the things that the drugs held back. I know all of you know this already, but i just wanted my dad to know that I am so proud of the journey he has embarked on. I love you pop and Im so happy that you can now help save someone else’s life and lift their pain as well. Well, again hello to all and I look forward to chatting with each and everyone of you!                                                                 Be Strong!!!!!!!!!

Randy

Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tweak
Date: June 15, 2005 at 9:15:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kudos for opening up…love your way.  more later
love tink
i used to live in the lower haight and in the mission… i hear ya.

On 6/15/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net <darkmattersfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi everyone,

I did a session a couple of months ago in SF. It was life changing and a welcome change to my life as a gay tweaker.

I feel that I have missed so much. My development as a man has been stunted. My ability to let love in and to trust is muted. I am taking care of an ex lover who is schizophrenic, has AIDS, and occasionally tweeks. I can’t walk away from this but I can’t quite find my place.

Ibo has given me so much,  and Im not asking any questions or for help.  I guess I just wanted to say that it was worth the risk, and that its important to establish a supportive community/network so that after one does Ibo, you are not alone when facing life’s tribulations.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice
Date: June 15, 2005 at 8:34:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yayyyy I always knew I was CRACKING UP!!!!!!!
Yer most Welcome :o)
(My favourite Leonard-baby has to be off Natural Born Killers soundtrack!!
Repent, Repent…. I wonder what they meant????)

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 10:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

“There is a crack in everything..thats how the light gets in.” -Leonard
Cohen

Thank you for the warm welcome!

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hugs to ya Keith, hiding in yonder shadows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mate, please don’t be shy…. post away……. you will probably be Judged,
misunderstood, hugged lots, loved lots but that doesn’t stop me, and I think
that’s why I like everyone here………..never a dull moment!!!
Please share….it may help someone (if not yourself) and like you said,
we’re all pretty much in the same boat.  I feel you’re like me…… still
looking for the paddles and the wire cutters (for the barbed wire…, you
know, up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe etc etc……..um, ok)
But anyway, you’ve blown it now we know you’re there MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you’re
in big trouble now Fella!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Heehee
Much luff
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:34 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been listening for about a year now….I don’t have much to say, and
probably won’t post allot…maybe it’s fear of not being understood,
however, this is a very eclectic group and so I know a random post (even if
it is ignored) may be welcome.

I just wanted to say I feel strangely tied to everyone here because we all
have a commonality and because I have kept reading your posts all this time,
so best of luck to everyone. I guess I wanted to send out some peace and
love myself, I might even light that candle.

In the “ten steps forward two steps back routine” I am in the ten steps back
phase…but hopefully not for long.

Keith

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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tweak
Date: June 15, 2005 at 8:21:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

I did a session a couple of months ago in SF. It was life changing and a welcome change to my life as a gay tweaker.

I feel that I have missed so much. My development as a man has been stunted. My ability to let love in and to trust is muted. I am taking care of an ex lover who is schizophrenic, has AIDS, and occasionally tweeks. I can’t walk away from this but I can’t quite find my place.

Ibo has given me so much,  and Im not asking any questions or for help.  I guess I just wanted to say that it was worth the risk, and that its important to establish a supportive community/network so that after one does Ibo, you are not alone when facing life’s tribulations.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 7:22:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Having herpes myself and having treated 65 individuals with ibogaine<

Hi Marc,
Having had our differences in the past, I hope you will not mind my asking you a question directly. (It’s good to see you are alive and apparently doing alright, after your brief but extremely unfair incarceration at the state’s expense.)
I’m curious as to how things are going with those you treated? Do you have any sort of followup of those you treated with ibogaine on-going? Having gone through three treatments now, I’m curious as to whether you’ve had better success with folk in Canada than the folk have had here in NYC, where so far as I know, most have not managed to keep themselves on the road to recovery, if that’s really the best way to put it. Do you feel that retreating people more than once or twice with ibogaine is an ok idea or do you feel that if someone has been treated once or some finite number of times that’s it, and they should try something else? I’m not asking for any reasons other than to satisfy personal curiosity, and because I know you’ve had a lot of first hand experience now with a fairly wide assortment of different people, a lot of very different people, taking into consideration the number of them, 65.
Thanks for taking the time to read my question, and I hope my message doesn’t go automatically straight into your delete box before you get a chyance to read it.
😉

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Marc Emery” <Marc420Emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Beatrice,

You still have the Herpes 2 virus. It is not detectable in your blood or any other test until you have an outbreak and the shedding provides analyzable viral content. when you aren’t shedding, the virus waits in the lower spine and is undetectable.

Ibogaine does not kill viruses. Having herpes myself and having treated 65 individuals with ibogaine, I haven’t seen any extraordinary effect on viruses.

I hope its true, but I want you to know that it would seem to me impossible that herpes can be vanquished by ibogaine. If its any comfort, over time, herpes outbreaks diminish greatly in frequency and virulence.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:45 pm
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away
from my
attacker, he told me that I would reme
mber him.  I didn’t know
exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes.They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for
anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
somethingabout not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the
herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.
Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine
Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because
of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine
provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everythingabout this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I m
entioned it to my
provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrexaround February, just to see if I would break out.  I
didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to
get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myselftested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just
two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine
can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right
now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for
another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
withsomeone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird
way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 7:05:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My liver also went way normal looking after taking ibogaine, and I do have Hep C, and still do so far as I know but to be honest did not get another test for it done, so could actually have gotten rid of it. I somehow doubt it though, even with that one liver test looking so positive.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

yes im wondering about that too
tink my love u no longer have hep c –for real>?
i noticed that after my ibo treament all my liver enzymes went back to normal from being ridicoulsly high up to 400
love as always

Namaste
Matthew

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice
Date: June 15, 2005 at 6:58:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cheers to ya ending your days of silence.  Being in touch with the
Lunatic Fringe has been an incredible help to me, both for the
incredible support as well as the shit storms that occur.  It’s great
to be able to be who you are sometimes, and not feel like a complete
arsehole :]
Just because your paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t after you….
i  need sleep.
welcome and keep posting!!!!
luv to ya
tink

On 6/15/05, VanAllen, Keith G. <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org> wrote:
“There is a crack in everything..thats how the light gets in.” -Leonard Cohen

Thank you for the warm welcome!

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hugs to ya Keith, hiding in yonder shadows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mate, please don’t be shy…. post away……. you will probably be Judged,
misunderstood, hugged lots, loved lots but that doesn’t stop me, and I think
that’s why I like everyone here………..never a dull moment!!!
Please share….it may help someone (if not yourself) and like you said,
we’re all pretty much in the same boat.  I feel you’re like me…… still
looking for the paddles and the wire cutters (for the barbed wire…, you
know, up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe etc etc……..um, ok)
But anyway, you’ve blown it now we know you’re there MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you’re
in big trouble now Fella!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Heehee
Much luff
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:34 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been listening for about a year now….I don’t have much to say, and
probably won’t post allot…maybe it’s fear of not being understood,
however, this is a very eclectic group and so I know a random post (even if
it is ignored) may be welcome.

I just wanted to say I feel strangely tied to everyone here because we all
have a commonality and because I have kept reading your posts all this time,
so best of luck to everyone. I guess I wanted to send out some peace and
love myself, I might even light that candle.

In the “ten steps forward two steps back routine” I am in the ten steps back
phase…but hopefully not for long.

Keith

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 6:53:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it worked for me on the hep c thing, and still i’m a-okay.  Now if i
could only figure out where that little lump of grey matter I call my
brain crept off to… i think it’s hanging out with my ability to
sleep and the little internal alarm that goes off when you’re about to
do or say something stupid.
it’s a plot!!
luv ya kirkie!!!!
tink(achoo)

On 6/15/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
Not to be a downer either but that’s kinda what I thought.  There’s still a
lot of research needs to be done on Hep C and the like I think, wasn’t even
heard of when I started using (heyyyy I’m not THAT old !!! :o))  but even if
Ibogaine Beats the virus into submission and keeps it there, by crikey
that’s gotta be an Upper!!!!
(Just heard the funniest damn thing on a movie “TRUST ME, I’M A DOCTOR”!!!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OMG THAT’S
SO FUNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY)
Urhhh
Right
Bye kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Marc Emery [mailto:Marc420Emery@shaw.ca]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:06 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Beatrice,

You still have the Herpes 2 virus. It is not detectable in your blood or any
other test until you have an outbreak and the shedding provides analyzable
viral content. when you aren’t shedding, the virus waits in the lower spine
and is undetectable.

Ibogaine does not kill viruses. Having herpes myself and having treated 65
individuals with ibogaine, I haven’t seen any extraordinary effect on
viruses.

I hope its true, but I want you to know that it would seem to me impossible
that herpes can be vanquished by ibogaine. If its any comfort, over time,
herpes outbreaks diminish greatly in frequency and virulence.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:45 pm
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away
from my
attacker, he told me that I would reme
mber him.  I didn’t know
exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes.They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for
anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
somethingabout not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the
herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.
Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine
Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because
of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine
provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everythingabout this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I m
entioned it to my
provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrexaround February, just to see if I would break out.  I
didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to
get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myselftested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just
two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine
can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right
now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for
another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
withsomeone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird
way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

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From: Pipetman9@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes and other viral disease
Date: June 15, 2005 at 6:46:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Herpes Virus infection is definitely a symptom of subclinical scurvy and can easily be cured with megadose sodiumascorbate, if someone had no success treating Herpes with sodiumascorbate the dose should be increased.
Any kind of severe stress can trigger reappearance of persistent herpes infection, anything reducing physical stress (like Iboga removing addiction to unhealthy substances) may decrease frequency of reappearance of infection.
Urea (oral 50-200g per day) is extremely effective against Herpes virus symptoms but even after Urea therapy virus is persisting during asymptomatic periods for decades.
An easy way to find out Iboga can eliminate the virus is to eat a diet low in vitamin c for some weeks and to apply some physical stress.

Concerning some other virus like Hepatitis C and HIV please dont ignore the hypotheses that these are inventions of the medical establishment, i.e virus is not the cause of these 2 disease conditions, or even HC and Hi virus do not exist.
Juergen

I add some links:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/07/05/hepatitis_c_epidemic_where_is_the_virus.htm http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/kmdancing.htm http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/
http://aidsmyth.addr.com/report/news/010427clauskohnlein.htm
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/slreplypd2.htm
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/slreplypd2.htm
http://www.whale.to/w/antiviral.html

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Has this happened to anyone else post ibogaine?
Date: June 15, 2005 at 6:24:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Tink ,hey how about some acupuncture ,it really helped me get over the slump, with sleep mood pain etc, best wishes ,oh neat trip ,sounds cool,love shell

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
The biggest problem I’ve had as of late has been the increase of pain
in my ankles, wrists, knees and elbows. Well, that and i can’t sleep
to save my life for longer than two hours, but that’s to be expected.
This joint pain is unreal, and not going away. I almost fell flat on
my face going down some stair when my ankle just gave out on my left
side. I’m having a hard time lifting anything, and typing is
torturous.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated…
love to all
tink

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice
Date: June 15, 2005 at 6:07:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“There is a crack in everything..thats how the light gets in.” -Leonard Cohen

Thank you for the warm welcome!

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hugs to ya Keith, hiding in yonder shadows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mate, please don’t be shy…. post away……. you will probably be Judged,
misunderstood, hugged lots, loved lots but that doesn’t stop me, and I think
that’s why I like everyone here………..never a dull moment!!!
Please share….it may help someone (if not yourself) and like you said,
we’re all pretty much in the same boat.  I feel you’re like me…… still
looking for the paddles and the wire cutters (for the barbed wire…, you
know, up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe etc etc……..um, ok)
But anyway, you’ve blown it now we know you’re there MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you’re
in big trouble now Fella!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Heehee
Much luff
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:34 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been listening for about a year now….I don’t have much to say, and
probably won’t post allot…maybe it’s fear of not being understood,
however, this is a very eclectic group and so I know a random post (even if
it is ignored) may be welcome.

I just wanted to say I feel strangely tied to everyone here because we all
have a commonality and because I have kept reading your posts all this time,
so best of luck to everyone. I guess I wanted to send out some peace and
love myself, I might even light that candle.

In the “ten steps forward two steps back routine” I am in the ten steps back
phase…but hopefully not for long.

Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:57:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hugs to ya Keith, hiding in yonder shadows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mate, please don’t be shy…. post away……. you will probably be Judged,
misunderstood, hugged lots, loved lots but that doesn’t stop me, and I think
that’s why I like everyone here………..never a dull moment!!!
Please share….it may help someone (if not yourself) and like you said,
we’re all pretty much in the same boat.  I feel you’re like me…… still
looking for the paddles and the wire cutters (for the barbed wire…, you
know, up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe etc etc……..um, ok)
But anyway, you’ve blown it now we know you’re there MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you’re
in big trouble now Fella!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Heehee
Much luff
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: VanAllen, Keith G. [mailto:VanAllK@sutterhealth.org]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:34 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been listening for about a year now….I don’t have much to say, and
probably won’t post allot…maybe it’s fear of not being understood,
however, this is a very eclectic group and so I know a random post (even if
it is ignored) may be welcome.

I just wanted to say I feel strangely tied to everyone here because we all
have a commonality and because I have kept reading your posts all this time,
so best of luck to everyone. I guess I wanted to send out some peace and
love myself, I might even light that candle.

In the “ten steps forward two steps back routine” I am in the ten steps back
phase…but hopefully not for long.

Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:53:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not to be a downer either but that’s kinda what I thought.  There’s still a
lot of research needs to be done on Hep C and the like I think, wasn’t even
heard of when I started using (heyyyy I’m not THAT old !!! :o))  but even if
Ibogaine Beats the virus into submission and keeps it there, by crikey
that’s gotta be an Upper!!!!
(Just heard the funniest damn thing on a movie “TRUST ME, I’M A DOCTOR”!!!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OMG THAT’S
SO FUNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY)
Urhhh
Right
Bye kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Marc Emery [mailto:Marc420Emery@shaw.ca]
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2005 9:06 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Beatrice,

You still have the Herpes 2 virus. It is not detectable in your blood or any
other test until you have an outbreak and the shedding provides analyzable
viral content. when you aren’t shedding, the virus waits in the lower spine
and is undetectable.

Ibogaine does not kill viruses. Having herpes myself and having treated 65
individuals with ibogaine, I haven’t seen any extraordinary effect on
viruses.

I hope its true, but I want you to know that it would seem to me impossible
that herpes can be vanquished by ibogaine. If its any comfort, over time,
herpes outbreaks diminish greatly in frequency and virulence.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:45 pm
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away
from my
attacker, he told me that I would reme
mber him.  I didn’t know
exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes.They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for
anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
somethingabout not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the
herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.
Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine
Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because
of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine
provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everythingabout this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I m
entioned it to my
provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrexaround February, just to see if I would break out.  I
didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to
get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myselftested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just
two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine
can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right
now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for
another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
withsomeone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird
way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:34:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been listening for about a year now….I don’t have much to say, and probably won’t post allot…maybe it’s fear of not being understood, however, this is a very eclectic group and so I know a random post (even if it is ignored) may be welcome.

I just wanted to say I feel strangely tied to everyone here because we all have a commonality and because I have kept reading your posts all this time, so best of luck to everyone. I guess I wanted to send out some peace and love myself, I might even light that candle.

In the “ten steps forward two steps back routine” I am in the ten steps back phase…but hopefully not for long.

Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “VanAllen, Keith G.” <VanAllK@sutterhealth.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] From the shadows a friendly voice
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:31:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been listening for about a year now….I don’t have much to say, and probably won’t post allot…maybe it’s fear of not being understood, however, this is a very eclectic group and so I know a random post (even if it is ignored) may be welcome.

I just wanted to say I feel strangely tied to everyone here because we all have a commonality and because I have kept reading your posts all this time, so best of luck to everyone. I guess I wanted to send out some peace and love myself, I might even light that candle.

In the “ten steps forward two steps back routine” I am in the ten steps back phase…but hopefully not for long.

Keith

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:05:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beatrice,

You still have the Herpes 2 virus. It is not detectable in your blood or any other test until you have an outbreak and the shedding provides analyzable viral content. when you aren’t shedding, the virus waits in the lower spine and is undetectable.

Ibogaine does not kill viruses. Having herpes myself and having treated 65 individuals with ibogaine, I haven’t seen any extraordinary effect on viruses.

I hope its true, but I want you to know that it would seem to me impossible that herpes can be vanquished by ibogaine. If its any comfort, over time, herpes outbreaks diminish greatly in frequency and virulence.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:45 pm
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away
from my
attacker, he told me that I would reme
mber him.  I didn’t know
exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes.They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for
anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
somethingabout not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the
herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.
Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine
Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because
of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine
provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everythingabout this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I m
entioned it to my
provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrexaround February, just to see if I would break out.  I
didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to
get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myselftested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just
two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine
can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right
now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for
another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
withsomeone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird
way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:02:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for real…super real how cool is THAT!!!

On 6/15/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

yes im wondering about that too

tink my love u no longer have hep c –for real>?

i noticed that after my ibo treament all my liver enzymes went back to
normal from being ridicoulsly high up to 400

love as always

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the
first two months FREE*
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a shout out
Date: June 15, 2005 at 5:01:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

love you matthew..

On 6/15/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

i ve burned my last candle on that freak tink,  but i just spent a moment
sending out all my love to the boundless ephereal spheres of realities
safe and enlightening journey

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join
now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a shout out
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:58:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i ve burned my last candle on that freak tink,  but i just spent a moment sending out all my love to the boundless ephereal spheres of realities
safe and enlightening journey

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:55:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes im wondering about that too
tink my love u no longer have hep c –for real>?
i noticed that after my ibo treament all my liver enzymes went back to normal from being ridicoulsly high up to 400
love as always

Namaste
Matthew

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:49:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Colby
congrats my brother!!!! happy to hear u got off the stuff!!!
yah there is not much to add to what everyone said here…..its a tough road ahead but its worth it…..for me the one thing that help the most was taking baths literary dozens a day and night…..if u have acces to a suan that would be even better……if u have the cash u might want to look into homeopathic remedies for sleep and anxiety…..they work great but are expensive as hell……..u got a wicked support system here i strongly receomd to take advantage of it :}
love u and wishing u all the best

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a shout out
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:23:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YEEEE HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Consider the candles lit, and other such activities in process.
Travel well, fellow Iboganaut!!
love from tink

On 6/15/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Someone asked me to post a shout out here, as someone else they know is
getting treated tonight. I do not know who it is, nor where or by whom
they’re getting treated, but this friend wanted me to let everyone here know
in case someone would light a candle or some such activity. Thanks all.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] a shout out
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:17:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Someone asked me to post a shout out here, as someone else they know is getting treated tonight. I do not know who it is, nor where or by whom they’re getting treated, but this friend wanted me to let everyone here know in case someone would light a candle or some such activity. Thanks all.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Has this happened to anyone else post ibogaine?
Date: June 15, 2005 at 3:53:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The biggest problem I’ve had as of late has been the increase of pain
in my ankles, wrists, knees and elbows.  Well, that and i can’t sleep
to save my life for longer than two hours, but that’s to be expected.
This joint pain is unreal, and not going away.  I almost fell flat on
my face going down some stair when my ankle just gave out on my left
side. I’m having a hard time lifting anything, and typing is
torturous.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated…
love to all
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] drinkin methadone and shooting speedballs.
Date: June 15, 2005 at 1:01:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Marc.  How’s your head? did your surgery go well?
Mine is till reeling, but I’m way okay with that…
Thanks for your words-and about that whole “the end of the world as
brought to you by Gillete,” well, I had a very similar experience,
very weird, way dark, super intense.  I wanted to cry for weeks about
the end of the world, but cheer it on at the same time.  Eh…The
second time around was VASTLY different, more along the lines of, this
your brain on drugs, and this is your brain on life.  now what the
FUCK is your problem??!!  Roughly 36 hours into it, it all switched
over to a more Earth Momma trip, and i was, well, I guess you can say
i was brought into a community of very strong, no nonsense bwiti type
women, who were trying to show me how to sow and reap the rewards,
whether it was earthly or not, but the emphasis was on the protection
of the planet and on children.  kinda flung me sideways for a bit, and
I’m not sure exactly what it was all about yet, but I have started a
community garden in Montpelier for the kids who live in the
“projects”, such as they are here.
Anyhoo, it’s great to hear you’re doing well!
More about your trip, por favor…
love to you
tink

On 6/15/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

Just kidding. If ya can’t write that here where can ya do it.

Hey Randy, Thanks man I really appreciate it. Yes, I have become quite an
experienced traveler this past year :o) and boy i was so afraid this time
last year. (thanks Howard) Iboga has become such an ally of mine. Seeing
things so differently now. Cant believe its almost a year! So I’ve had my
ups and downs but its been like peeling an onion as Dana would say. Every
time getting what I needed and coming out a little more raw… feeling a bit
more each time, getting  a bit closer to the root of it each time. Fuckin
amazing. I’m still not tired and its late but I’m sitting here feeling so
grateful to be on the other end, so I’ll mention something that might make
sense to someone.
This stage 2 was so different than it was before and has stuck with me ever
since. I tossed and turned waiting for that reflection period I got the
first time where I floated around in Mexico smelling mint leaves. This time
I prayed for something remotely like that but it never came. It was instead
quite the opposite. It was tossing and turning and freezing and sweating.
every time I closed my eyes seeing or being brought back to some of the most
filthy parts of my addiction. I laid there for hours trying to sleep ( 12
hours or so :O) but every time I closed my eyes it was the most ugly parts
of my addiction up close and personal. I thought I might still be sick but
impossible knowing what I had ingested so I was foruced to rolling with it.
They say you go though Ibo addressing emotional issues at a bit of a
distance well let me tell you, I was there and it was up close and personal
and it was a nightmare. Actually as I think about it I don’t think at that
point I was totally ready to let go yet, or maybe a better way to put it is
it hadn’t totally let go of me yet but the ibogaine was stll showing me
where that road has led and wherre it leads. Anyway it was horrible and all
I could think at the time was I’m 12 hours into this and all i can think
about is dope! It was like “shit now Ibogaine doesn’t even work for me, I’m
fucked”. Then at some point I passed out. I woke up soaked and still a bit
uncomfortable but I felt as if I had been brought back from the dead. Like a
newborn baby. Raw as shit, exausted and uncomfortable and so emotional  but
feeling totally brand new… CLEAN. I look back now and realize that it was
exactly what I needed to get out of it. It wasn’t exhilarating or deep it
was scary and horrible and thank god for that. I touched on things in that
12 hours and was shown what it is really all about in a way that I needed to
see it and in a way I will never forget. Stage 1 was so deep on a global or
humanity level but too deep to totally process. I mean reporters almost like
a news brodcast showing me the craziest things. Complete with commericals.
Like ” The ultimate desrtuction of humanity… brought to you by Gillette”.
So weird. thats a whole other rant.
Anyway, I’ve had this amount of time after ibogaine before but I have never
had such resolve. I’ve never felt like I do right now… never.  I guess
only time will tell and I know I still need to do a lot of shit but right
now today I can’t imagine shooting dope. I mean I really couldn’t even
imagine doing it! Who knows. But one thing I will say is ibogaine is the
only thing that has EVER worked for me. The only thing that has ever been
able to give me any perspective when it comes to this shit. So thanks again.
– M.  you all know who you are.

Marc, good for you man. Thanx for telling this guy what you did.
We need people like you around. You have more info than I do. I’m glad that

“E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” <ecbl@cox.net> wrote:

Honesty, comunication, respect and good sex!!!
It is simple be your true self.

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

OOOOOOOOOOO MYYYYYYYYYYYYYY God, please don’t put me in that category. I for
one realize how important women are to the world. At the risk of being
condensending I have to say that if it wasn’t for a strong woman I would be
dead. Maybe that is why I hold all females in such high regard. I don’t know
if that is a problem or not, but I sure do like girls. Women seem to be more
honest and sure about there feelings than men do. I would appreciate a clue
as to what you want though. Hopelessly intrigued             Randy

________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 12:47:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just got treated again about a week and a half ago, and i still
don’t feel right, but i feel better than I ever did on methadone or
buprenorphine.  I was on 120mgs of methadrone the first time they
treated me, and i never felt right, but that was many m,oons ago, and
they know a lot more about gradual protocal, etc, than they used to.
xanax is a really tough one, and I don’t know how much the ibogaine
will help with it, but I’m not the one to ask about that.
The second treatment, that got me off of the suboxone, was one of the
most incredible experiences I have EVER had.  I’m sleeping in fits and
starts, still twisting my sheets into knots, and feel like a live wire
is running through me at times, but in comparison to what it COULd be
like, I feel freakin’ fantastic.  I have a feeling that at the end of
the week, I’ll be much more motivated, and maybe even sleeping
better(though i’m not going to hold my breath on that one :])
Stick with it, keep posting…
it helps A LOT!!!
love to you, and congrats!!
tink
On 6/14/05, Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] From, but not of
Date: June 15, 2005 at 12:33:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

FROM BUT NOT OF

I have been
from
an awful lot of places
but rarely have I been
of
I have travelled from here
to there, and beyond
And been to and fro, up and down
But no matter how many people
I’ve sat in a room with
Rarely have I been of
I’ve come
from
far away
and been there and back
And from a particular group
But my membership card holds no platinum or gold
I don’t have entry to the VIP Lounge
And my name isn’t often on
the guest list
But i always skip past the line at the front of the club
I am from my hometown
But not of my community
My face is familiar, my smiles returned
But I’m rarely a “party of two”
Ands often sit alone at the counter, not in a booth
I can walk down the street
With my nose in a book
I have faith in periferal vision
But as i make my way from place to place
I’m just walking through,
from but not of
I’m a spectator, or coach
But not part of the team
I’ve never tried cheerleading
And i’m on no committees
My opinions are asked fro varietyu,
not counsel
And some choose to listen
Sometimes they say,
“I know where you’re coming from.”
And I stay
once again
From
but not of

Love
tink

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From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] A word of appreciation
Date: June 15, 2005 at 10:01:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey to all,

I just wanted to thank all you guys for the kind words
you had for me. It was more than I expected. It’s nice
to know there is a place with like-minded people.

Thanks again,

Colby

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Totally OTfT: stoopid band names!
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:25:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My very minor claim to fame was one Winter Solstice party in Seacliff when a
few of us got a band together (mainly punk, I can’t sing heh) and we called
it :  Captain Kirk and a Bunch of Wankers.  (I was only girly)  Some guy
gave me $20 he was so impressed! Either that or………….nahhh don’t bear
finkin’ about!!!!
Koik

Hey Tink,

Something else that helped me sleep and relax was eating pot.
As you would be aware it is a different effect,..more of a relaxing
body stone,..not a pchyscodelic head stone,..calms the nerves.

Mmmm,…Vodka Fury & the Nicka Boxers.

Sleep is on it’s way, I can spare 4 hours.

with love, Jasen.

No sleep and all play makes tink a space cadet
***BEAM HER OVER KIRKY***
We’ve been coming up with some very silly band names (Nick Fury & The
Vodka Boxers) and laughing our asses of, which is such a nice way to
finish up a wonderful visit.
.

Suggestions for sleep greatly appreciated!
love
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 4:09:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can I ask what type of tests you had to check you are clear of Hep C?  I
think we’ve churned this topic over in the past…..but I am just interested
cos I’ve got a test to do (when I can see some veins lol) to see what the
story is with my Hep.
Chairs!!
Koik

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2005 2:44 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

I had hep C and now do not thanks to ibogaine.  It really is an
amazing thing, and saved my ass in so many ways.  Granted I’m still a
bit twinkly from my latest adventure into Bwitiville, but the fact
that i’m clean and CLEAN is no small miracle.
Thank you for your support, Rachel, as well.  It’s nice to see an
iboganaut’s family being so supportive!
As for your attack, I had a very similar experience, and have found
that writing helps quite a bit, and screaming into the occasional
pillow at the top of your lungs doesn’t hurt any.  ow if i could ever
get through a night without waking up…
love too you all
tink

On 6/14/05, Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
BEATRICE BLUE WROTE:  I am completely clear of any STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be
the only possible reason!

Right on, Beatrice!!!  Right freakin’ on!  Thank you for sharing your
story of survival, courage, and healing.  I needed to hear it today.
Ammamamamazed indeedy!!!

I’ve also heard of a friend who cleared Hepatitis C through his
healing work with this root, so the miracles of the Medicine are  to
be praised and thanked.

I’m sorry you were attacked, and I just took an amazing class on
Trauma Release Exercises (“shaking”) that may be something to consider
in your post-ibogaine bodywork/somatic releasing curve.
www.traumaprevention.com

Much love,

Rachel, wife of an Iboganaut

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] drinkin methadone and shooting speedballs.
Date: June 15, 2005 at 2:48:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just kidding. If ya can’t write that here where can ya do it.

Hey Randy, Thanks man I really appreciate it. Yes, I have become quite an experienced traveler this past year :o) and boy i was so afraid this time last year. (thanks Howard) Iboga has become such an ally of mine. Seeing things so differently now. Cant believe its almost a year! So I’ve had my ups and downs but its been like peeling an onion as Dana would say. Every time getting what I needed and coming out a little more raw… feeling a bit more each time, getting  a bit closer to the root of it each time. Fuckin amazing. I’m still not tired and its late but I’m sitting here feeling so grateful to be on the other end, so I’ll mention something that might make sense to someone.
This stage 2 was so different than it was before and has stuck with me ever since. I tossed and turned waiting for that reflection period I got the first time where I floated around in Mexico smelling mint leaves. This time I prayed for something remotely like that but it never came. It was instead quite the opposite. It was tossing and turning and freezing and sweating. every time I closed my eyes seeing or being brought back to some of the most filthy parts of my addiction. I laid there for hours trying to sleep ( 12 hours or so :O) but every time I closed my eyes it was the most ugly parts of my addiction up close and personal. I thought I might still be sick but impossible knowing what I had ingested so I was foruced to rolling with it. They say you go though Ibo addressing emotional issues at a bit of a distance well let me tell you, I was there and it was up close and personal and it was a nightmare. Actually as I think about it I don’t think at that point I was totally ready to let go yet, or maybe a better way to put it is it hadn’t totally let go of me yet but the ibogaine was stll showing me where that road has led and wherre it leads. Anyway it was horrible and all I could think at the time was I’m 12 hours into this and all i can think about is dope! It was like “shit now Ibogaine doesn’t even work for me, I’m fucked”. Then at some point I passed out. I woke up soaked and still a bit uncomfortable but I felt as if I had been brought back from the dead. Like a newborn baby. Raw as shit, exausted and uncomfortable and so emotional  but feeling totally brand new… CLEAN. I look back now and realize that it was exactly what I needed to get out of it. It wasn’t exhilarating or deep it was scary and horrible and thank god for that. I touched on things in that 12 hours and was shown what it is really all about in a way that I needed to see it and in a way I will never forget. Stage 1 was so deep on a global or humanity level but too deep to totally process. I mean reporters almost like a news brodcast showing me the craziest things. Complete with commericals. Like ” The ultimate desrtuction of humanity… brought to you by Gillette”. So weird. thats a whole other rant.
Anyway, I’ve had this amount of time after ibogaine before but I have never had such resolve. I’ve never felt like I do right now… never.  I guess only time will tell and I know I still need to do a lot of shit but right now today I can’t imagine shooting dope. I mean I really couldn’t even imagine doing it! Who knows. But one thing I will say is ibogaine is the only thing that has EVER worked for me. The only thing that has ever been able to give me any perspective when it comes to this shit. So thanks again. – M.  you all know who you are.
Marc, good for you man. Thanx for telling this guy what you did.
We need people like you around. You have more info than I do. I’m glad that

“E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” <ecbl@cox.net> wrote:
Honesty, comunication, respect and good sex!!!
It is simple be your true self.
—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

OOOOOOOOOOO MYYYYYYYYYYYYYY God, please don’t put me in that category. I for one realize how important women are to the world. At the risk of being condensending I have to say that if it wasn’t for a strong woman I would be dead. Maybe that is why I hold all females in such high regard. I don’t know if that is a problem or not, but I sure do like girls. Women seem to be more honest and sure about there feelings than men do. I would appreciate a clue as to what you want though. Hopelessly intrigued             Randy

Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 2:47:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It took me about 2 months to feel “normal”.  I have
been clean for over a year now.  I was on Methadone
(100mgs a day for 3 years) and I tapered down to like
12mgs before doing Iboga.

After Iboga it was only minor symptoms, like anxiety
type feelings and minor stomach discomfort.  High
quality cannabis helped almost all my symptoms, and I
didn’t even take any special vitamins or do any sauna,
but i walked regularly…

I took melatonin or benadryl sometimes to help sleep,
but I still only slept about 4-5 hours a night.  I got
used to it and now I still only sleep maybe 7 hours
tops, but I don’t feel like I need more.  Smoking good
herb (or eating it prepared properly is even better)
helps with sleep as well..

Time is all that really helps, but I think in about
2-3 months you should feel near 100%…  Hope this
helps!  Hang in there, you aren’t far away from
freedom.

Peace and Best Wishes

— Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com> wrote:

It takes TIME meth sticks I was on 50 mgs and it
took months to feel
anywhere near normal…swim sauna all the nutrional
stuff yes but TIME is a
healer hang tough…Freak Free!
Jeff

On 6/14/05, sara119@xs4all.nl <sara119@xs4all.nl>
wrote:

a sauna and plenty of water and fresh fruit
juices at least 2 liter,
everyday for two weeks or until you feel totally
detoxed.
one of my clients who was on 180 mg did it for a
month long, 3 hours per
day he spent in the sauna, swimming + the
drinking, and still
it wasn’t easy but he is now four years clean and
happy, he was on the
methadone for 19 years.

Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year
old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of
Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for
about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before
Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does
the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my
receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right
yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best,
and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still
see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been
taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort.
Is
there anything else I should be doing besides
THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to
me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate
it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] No sleep and all play makes tink a space cadet
Date: June 15, 2005 at 1:56:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Tink,

Something else that helped me sleep and relax was eating pot.
As you would be aware it is a different effect,..more of a relaxing
body stone,..not a pchyscodelic head stone,..calms the nerves.

Mmmm,…Vodka Fury & the Nicka Boxers.

Sleep is on it’s way, I can spare 4 hours.

with love, Jasen.

No sleep and all play makes tink a space cadet
***BEAM HER OVER KIRKY***
We’ve been coming up with some very silly band names (Nick Fury & The
Vodka Boxers) and laughing our asses of, which is such a nice way to
finish up a wonderful visit.
.

Suggestions for sleep greatly appreciated!
love
tink

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From: Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 1:05:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hate to throw a wet blanket on this, but most routine tests for herpes type 2 are notorious for providing false negatives.   Cautious optimism is the way to go here; you shouldn’t throw out your antiviral meds just yet.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Sent: Jun 15, 2005 12:26 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine

Hi JennE

National Library of Medicine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Search  term ibogaine will give you a good start/

Also google.com is a great search engine for finding just about anything.
You just have to have some idea of what to look for.

Have you taken mdma and if so do you view ibogaine as a better medication for
treating post traumatic stress disorder?

Howard

In a message dated 6/14/05 11:10:56 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

Sorry, Howard, but where do I find this stuff to actually read it?

Thanks!

JennE

On 6/14/05 7:29 PM, “HSLotsof@aol.com” <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

Here are some citations indicating, antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal
actions of ibogaine. Howard

Silva EM, Cirne-Santos CC, Frugulhetti IC, Galvao-Castro B, Saraiva EM,
Kuehne ME, Bou-Habib DC.
Anti-HIV-1 activity of the Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine.
Planta Med. 2004 Sep;70(9):808-12.
PMID: 15386189 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

Rastogi N, Abaul J, Goh KS, Devallois A, Philogene E, Bourgeois P.
Antimycobacterial activity of chemically defined natural substances from
the
Caribbean flora in Guadeloupe.
FEMS Immunol Med Microbiol. 1998 Apr;20(4):267-73.
PMID: 9626931 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

Yordanov M, Dimitrova P, Patkar S, Falcocchio S, Xoxi E, Saso L, Ivanovska
N.

Ibogaine reduces organ colonization in murine systemic and gastrointestinal
Candida albicans infections.
J Med Microbiol. 2005 Jul;54(Pt 7):647-53.
PMID: 15947429 [PubMed – in process]

In a message dated 6/14/05 8:59:20 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes
Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away from
my attacker, he told me that I would remember him.  I didn’t know exactly
what he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes
They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for anything else,
of course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
something
about not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the herpes out of my
body.  I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.

Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine Project
guys, who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because of
other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine provider
was kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everything
about this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I mentioned it to my provider,
who said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrex
around February, just to see if I would break out.  I didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to get back
on until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myself
tested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just two minutes
ago I got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for another
blood test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
with
someone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” <ecbl@cox.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 15, 2005 at 1:02:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Honesty, comunication, respect and good sex!!!
It is simple be your true self.
—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:40 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess

OOOOOOOOOOO MYYYYYYYYYYYYYY God, please don’t put me in that category. I for one realize how important women are to the world. At the risk of being condensending I have to say that if it wasn’t for a strong woman I would be dead. Maybe that is why I hold all females in such high regard. I don’t know if that is a problem or not, but I sure do like girls. Women seem to be more honest and sure about there feelings than men do. I would appreciate a clue as to what you want though. Hopelessly intrigued             Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 1:02:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Colby,

Keep going matey,the discomfort will leave you soon enough.

Your questions also depend on your aftercare. You will be
sweating and pissing it out for some time yet. The time
depends on how much you are exercising,water drinking
and sweating it out in a sauna or steamroom.

It takes time regardless of what you do, how much time…
well it depends on your metabolism and off course diet/nutrients.

I was on Methadone for 23 years, coming of 60mg at the
time of having Iboga. It has taken me months to start to feel normal,
but then what is normal?

I am in my 7th month and I feel great. It took me about 4 months
to start to feel that the minor withdrawals had gone.We have been
medicating our bodies with very powerful painkillers,..it stands to reason
that we will feel normal aches and pains associated with life in general
when we stop medicating. Exercise has helped me with this.

6 weeks ay Colby,…your over the worst of it,…it just gets easier from
here.

For anxiety and being irritable I took Fibroplex plus, a mineral
supplement with magnesium. For sleep I took kava kava passionflower
and valerium. The more water you consume the more toxins you will
leach out of your bones and body. Oh and streeeeeeeeetch.

love, from Jasen.

Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 12:55:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK Howard, you got me thinking. What about Ibogaine for a pedophile? Or child molestation, or however you spell it? It would seem to me that the introspection that comes with an Ibogaine treatment would have an effect on someone who really feels guilty about anything, much less child molestation. You are the man, give me the facts.   Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 15, 2005 at 12:40:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OOOOOOOOOOO MYYYYYYYYYYYYYY God, please don’t put me in that category. I for one realize how important women are to the world. At the risk of being condensending I have to say that if it wasn’t for a strong woman I would be dead. Maybe that is why I hold all females in such high regard. I don’t know if that is a problem or not, but I sure do like girls. Women seem to be more honest and sure about there feelings than men do. I would appreciate a clue as to what you want though. Hopelessly intrigued             Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 15, 2005 at 12:26:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jenné,

National Library of Medicine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Search  term ibogaine will give you a good start/

Also google.com is a great search engine for finding just about anything.
You just have to have some idea of what to look for.

Have you taken mdma and if so do you view ibogaine as a better medication for
treating post traumatic stress disorder?

Howard

In a message dated 6/14/05 11:10:56 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

Sorry, Howard, but where do I find this stuff to actually read it?

Thanks!

Jenné

On 6/14/05 7:29 PM, “HSLotsof@aol.com” <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

Here are some citations indicating, antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal
actions of ibogaine. Howard

Silva EM, Cirne-Santos CC, Frugulhetti IC, Galvao-Castro B, Saraiva EM,
Kuehne ME, Bou-Habib DC.
Anti-HIV-1 activity of the Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine.
Planta Med. 2004 Sep;70(9):808-12.
PMID: 15386189 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

Rastogi N, Abaul J, Goh KS, Devallois A, Philogene E, Bourgeois P.
Antimycobacterial activity of chemically defined natural substances from
the
Caribbean flora in Guadeloupe.
FEMS Immunol Med Microbiol. 1998 Apr;20(4):267-73.
PMID: 9626931 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

Yordanov M, Dimitrova P, Patkar S, Falcocchio S, Xoxi E, Saso L, Ivanovska
N.

Ibogaine reduces organ colonization in murine systemic and gastrointestinal
Candida albicans infections.
J Med Microbiol. 2005 Jul;54(Pt 7):647-53.
PMID: 15947429 [PubMed – in process]

In a message dated 6/14/05 8:59:20 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes
Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away from
my attacker, he told me that I would remember him.  I didn’t know exactly
what he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital
herpes
They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for anything else,
of course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said
something
about not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the herpes out of my
body.  I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed
miserably.

Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine Project
guys, who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as
far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because of
other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine provider
was kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.
Everything
about this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I mentioned it to my provider,
who said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the
Valtrex
around February, just to see if I would break out.  I didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to get back
on until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got
myself
tested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just two minutes
ago I got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any
STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for another
blood test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this
with
someone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:46:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Lee… I’m spending some time in California right now with our
spiritual teacher, Mata Amritanandamayi, and she talks all the time
about how the principle of motherhood is something to be awakened in
both men and women.  That “mother” is what I think of when I think of
Goddess, but your mileage may vary.

She spoke last night about how the women of the world are getting
super fed up with their ongoing oppression, and that if we don’t watch
out, there is going to be an emotional explosion of the female
principle far greater than any nuclear disaster.  I felt it in my gut
this morning when I read this New York Times column by Nicholas
Kristof,

which is about the court-ordered gang rape of Mukhtataran Mai Bibi and
now her imprisonment for speaking out about it.  Very upsetting.  It
made me imagine what would happen if all the women in the world
refused to bear children until men cleaned up their act, or stopped
cooking and making love and being the nurturers.

How freaking dare they? I kept thinking when I heard about this story
months ago.  How do the desecrate the Goddess like this???  It’s not,
in other words, just about women getting in touch with their inner
Kali or Tara or Earth Mama.  It’s about men realizing they are fucking
themselves big time through the injurious acts of rape.

furiously from santa cruz, rachel

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:43:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had hep C and now do not thanks to ibogaine.  It really is an
amazing thing, and saved my ass in so many ways.  Granted I’m still a
bit twinkly from my latest adventure into Bwitiville, but the fact
that i’m clean and CLEAN is no small miracle.
Thank you for your support, Rachel, as well.  It’s nice to see an
iboganaut’s family being so supportive!
As for your attack, I had a very similar experience, and have found
that writing helps quite a bit, and screaming into the occasional
pillow at the top of your lungs doesn’t hurt any.  ow if i could ever
get through a night without waking up…
love too you all
tink

On 6/14/05, Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
BEATRICE BLUE WROTE:  I am completely clear of any STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be the only possible reason!

Right on, Beatrice!!!  Right freakin’ on!  Thank you for sharing your
story of survival, courage, and healing.  I needed to hear it today.
Ammamamamazed indeedy!!!

I’ve also heard of a friend who cleared Hepatitis C through his
healing work with this root, so the miracles of the Medicine are  to
be praised and thanked.

I’m sorry you were attacked, and I just took an amazing class on
Trauma Release Exercises (“shaking”) that may be something to consider
in your post-ibogaine bodywork/somatic releasing curve.
www.traumaprevention.com

Much love,

Rachel, wife of an Iboganaut

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:31:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BEATRICE BLUE WROTE:  I am completely clear of any STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be the only possible reason!

Right on, Beatrice!!!  Right freakin’ on!  Thank you for sharing your
story of survival, courage, and healing.  I needed to hear it today.
Ammamamamazed indeedy!!!

I’ve also heard of a friend who cleared Hepatitis C through his
healing work with this root, so the miracles of the Medicine are  to
be praised and thanked.

I’m sorry you were attacked, and I just took an amazing class on
Trauma Release Exercises (“shaking”) that may be something to consider
in your post-ibogaine bodywork/somatic releasing curve.
www.traumaprevention.com

Much love,

Rachel, wife of an Iboganaut

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:29:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here are some citations indicating, antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal
actions of ibogaine. Howard

Silva EM, Cirne-Santos CC, Frugulhetti IC, Galvao-Castro B, Saraiva EM,
Kuehne ME, Bou-Habib DC.
Anti-HIV-1 activity of the Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine.
Planta Med. 2004 Sep;70(9):808-12.
PMID: 15386189 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

Rastogi N, Abaul J, Goh KS, Devallois A, Philogene E, Bourgeois P.
Antimycobacterial activity of chemically defined natural substances from the
Caribbean flora in Guadeloupe.
FEMS Immunol Med Microbiol. 1998 Apr;20(4):267-73.
PMID: 9626931 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

Yordanov M, Dimitrova P, Patkar S, Falcocchio S, Xoxi E, Saso L, Ivanovska N.

Ibogaine reduces organ colonization in murine systemic and gastrointestinal
Candida albicans infections.
J Med Microbiol. 2005 Jul;54(Pt 7):647-53.
PMID: 15947429 [PubMed – in process]

In a message dated 6/14/05 8:59:20 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away from
my
attacker, he told me that I would remember him.  I didn’t know exactly
what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital herpes.
They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for anything else,
of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said something
about not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed miserably.

Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine Project
guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.  Everything
about this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I mentioned it to my provider,
who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the Valtrex
around February, just to see if I would break out.  I didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to get back
on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got myself
tested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just two minutes
ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for another
blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this with
someone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Herpes Type 2 & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 8:45:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just wanted to let you all know about what can only be described as a
miracle.  I was raped in September of last year.  Before I got away from my
attacker, he told me that I would remember him.  I didn’t know exactly what
he meant until 2 weeks later when I had a an outbreak of genital herpes.
They put me on Valtrex.  I had a blood test to check for anything else, of
course, and thankfully everything else possible was clear.  Shortly
thereafter I went down to St. Kitts, and in passing Dr. Mash said something
about not being surprised if the Ibogaine kicked the herpes out of my body.
I paid it no mind at the time.  That Ibogaine session failed miserably.

Shortly after returning home, I got in touch with the Ibogaine Project guys,
who treated me in their part of the world.  It was successful as far as
getting through it and getting off (unlike St. Kitts), but because of other
things I won’t go into here I didn’t stay off.  My Ibogaine provider was
kind enough to try one more time, this time coming to my town.  Everything
about this time was perfect and it worked!

Because of what Dr. Mash had mentioned, I mentioned it to my provider, who
said nothing would surprise him either.  I had stopped taking the Valtrex
around February, just to see if I would break out.  I didn’t, but my
boyfriend wasn’t comfortable with my being off it so asked me to get back on
until I could get a blood test done.  Last week I went in and got myself
tested for everything, my third test since the rape.  Just two minutes ago I
got the phone call with the results:  I am completely clear of any STDs,
INCLUDING Herpes Simplex 2!!!!  I cannot believe it!  Ibogaine can be the
only possible reason!  I have been given a second chance!  Right now I’m
numb, I’m so amazed.  I will be making another appointment for another blood
test tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure, but I had to share this with
someone… Everyone!  THANK YOU IBOGA!!!!!  In a very weird way, my heroin
addiction was a blessing.  Can you believe this?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 8:45:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Colby,
how much xanax were you on ? and how much ibogaine were you given ?,  the half life of methadone is 6 months and it will be evident because you’ll feel like the lights went back on and actually Xanax is longer up to 9 mo.,  benzos are hard to get through thats why i wonder if mabe some of this is associated with that sence the ibogaine deosn’t seem to stop those withdrawls, not to promote getting high but grass/pot deos help with the anxiety and stabalize the mood of being worn down. also omega 3 fatty acids (fish oil) will help to stabalize the chemistry in the brain . the other question to know which detox your experiencing is the coldness in your legs in the core if that is still present then the methadone is still leaching if not its more than likely the benzo. whatever normal is when i detoxed it lasted 3-4 weeks that bone cold in the legs from methadone. and it seemed to be pretty much the same for others that i got to stay in contact with after detox. Valarian root for sleep 2 and 2 melatonin to help fall asleep see if that helps . hopefully you will be through this soon .

Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 8:30:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Colby, now that you said where you were treated, I know you got the real deal. Listen up dude, Methadone is rough, but can be beat. You are in a rough place right now, I was there. Stay with us and talk about how you feel. We will help you any way we can. I think at this point I can talk for the others now. I know I can for most. We all had a rough time after Ibo. Take the time to figure out what you want to do. The Ibogaine gave you clues to what is important to you. Pay attention. I was like you afterwards and it lasted for about a month. That doesn’t mean that you will experience the same thing. Ibogaine is like nothing else. It gives us what we need. You are the only one who knows what that is. Your here, your smart enough to figure it out. Give yourself a chance.    Randy

From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:50:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I honestly don’t think it’s benzo wd’s, because I’ve
kicked Benzo’s in the past cold turkey and that was
HELL! I think the Ibo assisted me in kicking both the
Methadone AND Xanax. What kind of recommendations are
you talking about?

— Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:

Colby, You can’t kick benzo’s with Ibo. If you also
had a Xanax jones, you
are probably in protracted Xanax withdrawal. Let us
know and we will send
recommendations if you wish.

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:42:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Colby, You can’t kick benzo’s with Ibo. If you also had a Xanax jones, you are probably in protracted Xanax withdrawal. Let us know and we will send recommendations if you wish.

From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:42:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey,

I was treated in Florida and it’s been 6 weeks without
Methadone or Xanax.

— mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hey Colby. I’m roughly your age and was on 110 mg of
Methadone (90mg and the time of my treatment) and it
took me a good two months before I felt completely
back to normal. I was on methadone for 7 years prior
to my treatment. I don’t know how long its since
your treatment but if your still seeing trails its
probably not that long and if your getting 5 hours a
night of sleep your probably way ahead of the game.
If you have access to Ibogaine you might want to
take a small booster. Its not gonna help your sleep
but it could help with the other stuff. I know that
although I felt like shit for a long time after I
still felt “clean” and positive.
I put about 4 months together after my first
treatment but eventually I fucked up and had to be
retreated for heroin. This time around I’m almost 3
months out and for the first month I was feeling a
little off. No sleep at all for the first week or so
and then over the course of a month I was able to
get back into a normal sleeping pattern. So possibly
some of the things you are going through are
ibogaine side effects and not waithdrawal. Just roll
with it and FEEL  whatever it is that you are
FEELING and in no time you’ll be on the other end.
Whatever that is.
Good luck man and hang in there it definitely gets
better. -M.

Where were you treated if you don’t mind me asking?

Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for
about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo)
for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and
I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking
some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS
and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:39:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Colby,
Well done to youuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!  You’ve been given some pretty good
advice, and from what I’ve read of others on here it takes time to return to
“normal” whatever that is for you! Gawd I remember coming off the ‘done in
about ’97 and it took 3 weeks solid just to get over the major full on
withdrawal symptoms sooooooooooo in saying that, if you are only feeling NOT
QUITE RIGHT after 6 weeks then you have avoided the very very worst of
Methadone detox!!!!!
I’m back on done, btw, no not short memory just better in the long run til I
can do Ibogaine ANDDDDD I have the support of my counsellor at CADS (I just
gave her the Ibogaine dossier, some other info and jasen’s experience.
Should blow her mind a bit Hehheh!!)
Would love to hear your Ibogaine experience, how much, how long, what
happened etc.
Luff luff
Kirsty Dawn

—–Original Message—–
From: Younger [mailto:younger1us@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 June 2005 9:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine

Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: spongebong hemp pants
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:35:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, if you haven’t seen these yet and you have a peer to peer program (I like Limewire) then search and download Spongebong Hemp Pants.  There are 3 three minute episodes and they are VERY well done and BLUDDY funny as hell!!!!  My fave is number 2~~~ (Pink Floyd the Wall undertones!!!!!! Haa)
I loik a laff, Oi do!!
Kirk :o)

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:34:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Colby. I’m roughly your age and was on 110 mg of Methadone (90mg and the time of my treatment) and it took me a good two months before I felt completely back to normal. I was on methadone for 7 years prior to my treatment. I don’t know how long its since your treatment but if your still seeing trails its probably not that long and if your getting 5 hours a night of sleep your probably way ahead of the game. If you have access to Ibogaine you might want to take a small booster. Its not gonna help your sleep but it could help with the other stuff. I know that although I felt like shit for a long time after I still felt “clean” and positive.
I put about 4 months together after my first treatment but eventually I fucked up and had to be retreated for heroin. This time around I’m almost 3 months out and for the first month I was feeling a little off. No sleep at all for the first week or so and then over the course of a month I was able to get back into a normal sleeping pattern. So possibly some of the things you are going through are ibogaine side effects and not waithdrawal. Just roll with it and FEEL  whatever it is that you are FEELING and in no time you’ll be on the other end. Whatever that is.
Good luck man and hang in there it definitely gets better. -M.

Where were you treated if you don’t mind me asking?

Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:34:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Colby. I’m roughly your age and was on 110 mg of Methadone (90mg and the time of my treatment) and it took me a good two months before I felt completely back to normal. I was on methadone for 7 years prior to my treatment. I don’t know how long its since your treatment but if your still seeing trails its probably not that long and if your getting 5 hours a night of sleep your probably way ahead of the game. If you have access to Ibogaine you might want to take a small booster. Its not gonna help your sleep but it could help with the other stuff. I know that although I felt like shit for a long time after I still felt “clean” and positive.
I put about 4 months together after my first treatment but eventually I fucked up and had to be retreated for heroin. This time around I’m almost 3 months out and for the first month I was feeling a little off. No sleep at all for the first week or so and then over the course of a month I was able to get back into a normal sleeping pattern. So possibly some of the things you are going through are ibogaine side effects and not waithdrawal. Just roll with it and FEEL  whatever it is that you are FEELING and in no time you’ll be on the other end. Whatever that is.
Good luck man and hang in there it definitely gets better. -M.

Where were you treated if you don’t mind me asking?

Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:33:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

I was on Methadone about a year and a half. I was on
Oxys hard for about two years 160 to 240 mgs per day
BEFORE Methadone. I think the total dose was
24(grams?). I had a gradual treatment down in Florida.
I actually considered Subutex because I was feeling
like such shit, but I decided against it. I thought I
would just tough it out for a couple months instead.

So, it’s been 9 months for you? How did you feel after
6 weeks?

Colby

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Colby, you sound like your in the position that I
was about 9 months ago. How
long were you on Methadone and how much Oxy were you
using before the Ibo?
Also, do you know how much total Ibogaine you took
and did you have a gradual
treatment or did you just take a bunch on your own.
These things make a
difference. Methadone is a problem and is maybe the
hardest opiate to get off of. If
it weren’t for this list I would have taken Subutex
or something. Your in the
right place bro.        randy

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 6:14:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Colby, you sound like your in the position that I was about 9 months ago. How long were you on Methadone and how much Oxy were you using before the Ibo? Also, do you know how much total Ibogaine you took and did you have a gradual treatment or did you just take a bunch on your own. These things make a difference. Methadone is a problem and is maybe the hardest opiate to get off of. If it weren’t for this list I would have taken Subutex or something. Your in the right place bro.        randy

From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 5:58:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It takes TIME meth sticks I was on 50 mgs and it took months to feel anywhere near normal…swim sauna all the nutrional stuff yes but TIME is a healer hang tough…Freak Free!
Jeff

On 6/14/05, sara119@xs4all.nl <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>a sauna and plenty of water and fresh fruit juices at least 2 liter,
everyday for two weeks or until you feel totally detoxed.
one of my clients who was on 180 mg did it for a month long, 3 hours per
day he spent in the sauna, swimming + the drinking, and still
it wasn’t easy but he is now four years clean and happy, he was on the
methadone for 19 years.

Hello,
>
> My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
> guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
> Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
> a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
> OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
> Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
> reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
> have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
> still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
> still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
> tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
> B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
> there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
> exercising? If someone could please get back to me
> with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Colby
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 5:32:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a sauna and plenty of water and fresh fruit juices at least 2 liter,
everyday for two weeks or until you feel totally detoxed.
one of my clients who was on 180 mg did it for a month long, 3 hours per
day he spent in the sauna, swimming + the drinking, and still
it wasn’t easy but he is now four years clean and happy, he was on the
methadone for 19 years.

Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: Younger <younger1us@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Methadone & Ibogaine
Date: June 14, 2005 at 5:18:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

My name is Colby and I’m a 30 soon to be 31 year old
guy. I was given Ibogaine to get off of Methadone &
Xanax about 6 weeks ago. I was on Methadone for about
a year in a half(120 mg to start, 20mg before Ibo) for
OxyContin abuse. My question is how long does the
Methadone stay in your blood AND your bones? The
reason I ask is I still don’t feel that my receptors
have “healed”, and I don’t really feel right yet. I
still only sleep about 5 hours a night at best, and I
still feel irritably and anxious. I also still see
tracers in my vision at night. I have been taking some
B-12, 5-HTP, and I just started St. John’s Wort. Is
there anything else I should be doing besides THIS and
exercising? If someone could please get back to me
with some answers, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Colby

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 14, 2005 at 4:43:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How is the Ethnogarden’s extract different from Indra’s?  Anyone know?
Seems very expensive comparatively.  Just curious.

Thanks!
beatriceblue

On 6/14/05 11:59 AM, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

wasn’t impressed whatsoever with blue lotus, which someone else sent me a
package of. I still have it aroun dhere somewhere. Useless…oh, actually,
it was Blue Lilly of the Nile, not Blue Lotus (is that the same perhaps?) so
unless as just asked they are the same, never mind.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

Oo I was interested to know if anyone here has tried the Blue Lotus…. was
very drawn to it..
Thanks
Kirk xx

From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 2:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

Noticed they have this extract there, similar to Iboga.
They claim “Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate
dependency.”

Does anyone know any more about this? Not much info on erowid either..
The reason I ask is that this plant has not been banned yet, so may be worth
looking into. Ibogaine is very hard (though not impossible) to find in
Australia.

Cheers
Boris

“Voacanga Africana Pure Alkaloid Extract
With some similarities to Tabernathe iboga we feel research should open up
it’s doors to this product as a possible alternative for study.
Approximately 15g of Root bark is used to produce 1g of extract. The result
is a 95% pure alkaloid Reported to contain voacangine
(carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin and other unidentified alkkaloids. Minimal
study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency. No further
study has been done to our knowledge.”

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2005 1:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

From: admin@ethnogarden.com
To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
Subject: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:02 +0100

Greetings Folks,

A quick update for your regarding plant season and the release and
availability of new products.

Coming shortly.

We will have a very nice strain of Psychotria viridis dried leaves and our
Ayahuasca herbs will be coming down in price to the customer.

New products

Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract
We have finally released our Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract
containing 90% Ibogaine and 10% Tabernathine and ibogaine!
This material is available on site now and ready for shipment.
Unfortunately we were not able to keep the cost down as much as we would
have like however it is still more reasonably priced the Ibogaine hcl and
is offered @ $325 Canadian dollars per g with the same activity as hcl. We
are glad to be able to offer this finally after 2-3 years of development on
refinement.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_80/proid_189

Chinese topical errection stone.
“Just as the name says” A topical Viagra.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_86/proid_281

Pocket vaporizers.
Very nifty little gadgets which work amazing.
Please view further information here.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_85/proid_282/

Live plants.
Salvia divinroum Luna clones are now available.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_88/proid_283
Beautiful plants established with several leaves.

Specials.

Rivea corymbosa seeds
Kava 70% Kavalkatone extract tar

You may find all our specials available here!

We will also have a new grafting stock available to customers for speeding
up growth of Peyote shortly.
Pereskiopsis spathulata are optimal and very cost effective for grafting
stock.

Banisteriopsis caapi and Sceletium plants will also be available shortly
for shipment.

Unfortunately our Diploptereys plant has not produced as we would have
liked. We are continuing to work with this plant to establish cuttings for
sale however do not have any as of yet.

We will also offer to past customers and forum members 250ml Sassafras oil
for $350
Please contact us directly if you are interested in this or any other
refined materials.

Love light and pleasant vibrations.

The Ethnogarden Crew!

Jason Callan
Ethnogarden Botanicals
President and Founding Director.
TEL:(01)705-322-6614
FAX:(01)705-322-6615
www.ethnogarden.com
admin@ethnogarden.com

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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 14, 2005 at 2:59:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wasn’t impressed whatsoever with blue lotus, which someone else sent me a package of. I still have it aroun dhere somewhere. Useless…oh, actually, it was Blue Lilly of the Nile, not Blue Lotus (is that the same perhaps?) so unless as just asked they are the same, never mind.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

Oo I was interested to know if anyone here has tried the Blue Lotus…. was very drawn to it..
Thanks
Kirk xx

From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 2:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

Noticed they have this extract there, similar to Iboga.
They claim “Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency.”

Does anyone know any more about this? Not much info on erowid either..
The reason I ask is that this plant has not been banned yet, so may be worth looking into. Ibogaine is very hard (though not impossible) to find in Australia.

Cheers
Boris

“Voacanga Africana Pure Alkaloid Extract
With some similarities to Tabernathe iboga we feel research should open up it’s doors to this product as a possible alternative for study. Approximately 15g of Root bark is used to produce 1g of extract. The result is a 95% pure alkaloid Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin and other unidentified alkkaloids. Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency. No further study has been done to our knowledge.”

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2005 1:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

From: admin@ethnogarden.com
To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
Subject: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:02 +0100

Greetings Folks,

A quick update for your regarding plant season and the release and availability of new products.

Coming shortly.

We will have a very nice strain of Psychotria viridis dried leaves and our Ayahuasca herbs will be coming down in price to the customer.

New products

Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract
We have finally released our Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract containing 90% Ibogaine and 10% Tabernathine and ibogaine!
This material is available on site now and ready for shipment. Unfortunately we were not able to keep the cost down as much as we would have like however it is still more reasonably priced the Ibogaine hcl and is offered @ $325 Canadian dollars per g with the same activity as hcl. We are glad to be able to offer this finally after 2-3 years of development on refinement.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_80/proid_189

Chinese topical errection stone.
“Just as the name says” A topical Viagra.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_86/proid_281

Pocket vaporizers.
Very nifty little gadgets which work amazing.
Please view further information here.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_85/proid_282/

Live plants.
Salvia divinroum Luna clones are now available.
http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_88/proid_283
Beautiful plants established with several leaves.

Specials.

Rivea corymbosa seeds
Kava 70% Kavalkatone extract tar

You may find all our specials available here!

We will also have a new grafting stock available to customers for speeding up growth of Peyote shortly.
Pereskiopsis spathulata are optimal and very cost effective for grafting stock.

Banisteriopsis caapi and Sceletium plants will also be available shortly for shipment.

Unfortunately our Diploptereys plant has not produced as we would have liked. We are continuing to work with this plant to establish cuttings for sale however do not have any as of yet.

We will also offer to past customers and forum members 250ml Sassafras oil for $350
Please contact us directly if you are interested in this or any other refined materials.

Love light and pleasant vibrations.

The Ethnogarden Crew!

Jason Callan
Ethnogarden Botanicals
President and Founding Director.
TEL:(01)705-322-6614
FAX:(01)705-322-6615
www.ethnogarden.com
admin@ethnogarden.com

Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] drunk NYPD narcotics cops on the job
Date: June 14, 2005 at 12:14:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There was a female cop from the 9th that used to stop me ands take my
shit every Thursday like clockwork.. never arrested me, u always took
all of my dope.  i didn’t matter where I went to cop, or what time it
was i went, that bitch would find me directly after.
After landing myself in Beth Israel (5 Daizy!!) for the umpteenth
time,  a familiar face appeared over the meds nurse, and lo and
behold, there was the freakin’ cop, freshly out of a rehab herself and
working as a CNA.
She sort of apologized, after i recognised her, saying,”It wasn’t
personal, but you always got good dope, and had a bigger habit than
some of the others.”
Gotta love NYPD…
luv
tink
On 6/14/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Preston, I don’t think that anyone who drinks on the job should be in a
position to make life changing decisions about someone else’s life. That
said I have to agree that if these guys are found to have a problem with
alcohol that they deserve another chance. Just get them off the street while
they work out the problem. If that’s possible.     Randy

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Chloral Hydrate
Date: June 14, 2005 at 12:08:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SOMEBODY SEND ME SOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 6/14/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Schmooly, thanx guy. I looked up the Lunesta and it looks pretty good. Kind
of sounds like Ambien. Probably better. No really odd side effects and
little rebound insomnia. It might “woik”. Thanx for pointing out that
chloral hydrate had actions similar to alcohol. I had forgotten that. I
think it would work for the first two weeks post Ibogane treatment.   Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: [Ibogaine] drunk NYPD narcotics cops on the job
Date: June 14, 2005 at 11:41:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Preston, I don’t think that anyone who drinks on the job should be in a position to make life changing decisions about someone else’s life. That said I have to agree that if these guys are found to have a problem with alcohol that they deserve another chance. Just get them off the street while they work out the problem. If that’s possible.     Randy

From: Run Drugs Out of Town Run <rundrugsoutoftownrun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] drunk NYPD narcotics cops on the job
Date: June 14, 2005 at 11:26:09 AM EDT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

I had to wait to respond to this one until I had finished laughing.  It was scarry to hear about the airline pilots ready to take off with alcohol on their breath and for that matter it is frightening to think how many are under the influence and doing things they should not be doing.  Personally, I have been the target of a drunk driver twice and still carry the scars.  But this one takes the cake.  Irony doesn’t even begin to describe it.

🙂

Bill

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Officers Were Drunk on Job Near Parade Route, Police Say
(June 14, 2005-Free NYTimes registration required)

(As I note in this morning’s entry at DrugWar.com about this story):

These two Queens-based narcotics detectives stand accused of being drunk
on
the job as a result of a woman civilian complaining to an NYPD lieutenant,
who
upon investigating decided he agreed with her, that the two anti-narcotics
officers
were drunk on duty, while serving and protecting the public during the
recent
annual Puerto Rican Day parade in the Upper East Side of Manhattan. While
it’s
tempting to take the position that these two hypocrites get whatever is
coming
to them, to have the book thrown at them as it were, they first have to be
found
guilty by a court or administrative hearing. I wonder if they shouldn’t
get
the same chance for redemption I feel most other addicts should get (but
quite
often don’t) if found to be addicted or abusing drugs- the chance for
treatment
and a second chance at the job. But it’s hard to take this position for
me,
because these two (still innocent until proven guilty although things
aren’t
looking ood if the NYTimes has their story straight) make their living by
arresting
and locking up people for buying, selling and using substances other than
the
hard drug known alcohol they are now in trouble for using while on the
job.
How many other civilians have had to deal with these two (and who knows
how
many others on the NYPD too, reports of which come out from time to time)
drunk
cops over their long careers?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

<]=———————————————————————–=[>
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com ]
| -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=- |
| To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com |
[ DrugWar List in Digest Format: drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com ]
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Chloral Hydrate
Date: June 14, 2005 at 11:18:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schmooly, thanx guy. I looked up the Lunesta and it looks pretty good. Kind of sounds like Ambien. Probably better. No really odd side effects and little rebound insomnia. It might “woik”. Thanx for pointing out that chloral hydrate had actions similar to alcohol. I had forgotten that. I think it would work for the first two weeks post Ibogane treatment.   Randy

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Chloral Hydrate
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:14:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Try Lunesta at 3-4 mgs at night. Look it up. Rx drug only

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] gabapentin
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:13:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Take a look at Lamictal in the US PDR.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Chloral Hydrate
Date: June 14, 2005 at 10:10:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chloral hydrate follows a metabolic pathway similar to alcohol and is okay pre and post Ibo. It is a addictive substance. Be careful as tolerance can develop.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] drunk NYPD narcotics cops on the job
Date: June 14, 2005 at 9:49:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Officers Were Drunk on Job Near Parade Route, Police Say
(June 14, 2005-Free NYTimes registration required)

(As I note in this morning’s entry at DrugWar.com about this story):

These two Queens-based narcotics detectives stand accused of being drunk on
the job as a result of a woman civilian complaining to an NYPD lieutenant, who
upon investigating decided he agreed with her, that the two anti-narcotics officers
were drunk on duty, while serving and protecting the public during the recent
annual Puerto Rican Day parade in the Upper East Side of Manhattan. While it’s
tempting to take the position that these two hypocrites get whatever is coming
to them, to have the book thrown at them as it were, they first have to be found
guilty by a court or administrative hearing. I wonder if they shouldn’t get
the same chance for redemption I feel most other addicts should get (but quite
often don’t) if found to be addicted or abusing drugs- the chance for treatment
and a second chance at the job. But it’s hard to take this position for me,
because these two (still innocent until proven guilty although things aren’t
looking ood if the NYTimes has their story straight) make their living by arresting
and locking up people for buying, selling and using substances other than the
hard drug known alcohol they are now in trouble for using while on the job.
How many other civilians have had to deal with these two (and who knows how
many others on the NYPD too, reports of which come out from time to time) drunk
cops over their long careers?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] wtf!!??
Date: June 14, 2005 at 8:44:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2005-05-29
Snowflake babies.
Filed under:

* Politics

* Mike Slaven

@ 8:28 pm

From Bush’s frozen embryo baby press conference, via CNN:

The bill would allow researchers to use some 400,000 embryos that
were created for in vitro fertilization and would likely otherwise be
discarded. President Bush opposes that and held a news conference last
week to promote adopting the embryos, which he called “snowflake
babies.”

What?

Anyone who has any idea, please tell me what the hell it means to be a
“snowflake baby.”

But in other news, Sen. Arlen Specter, the moderate Republican who is
pushing for the stem cell bill in the Senate, had a staggering
discussion with Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, who is threatening (oh,
the irony) to filibuster the bill.

Throughout the exchange on ABC’s This Week you see a distinctive
pattern of Specter delivering level-headed moral appeals and Brownback
tripping over Jesus on his way to making a point. I would bold the
good parts, but they’re all unbelievable:

[Brownback] also argued repeatedly during the ABC program that
embryos are “the youngest of human life” and at one point asked
Specter and host George Stephanopoulos when their lives began.

Specter replied that he was “a lot more concerned, at this point,
about when my life is going to end,” to which Brownback responded that
he prays for the Pennsylvanian and asked again when life starts.

“It certainly doesn’t start in a laboratory dish,” Specter
replied. “This potential for life on these embryonic stem cells cannot
begin to occur unless it’s implanted back in a woman. We know for
sure, life does not start in a laboratory dish.”

Brownback was not persuaded, however, saying that the embryos are
“sacred” and “should be treated as such.”

It’s hard to pick one line to be particularly amazed at there, whether
it’s Brownback’s empty, stupid and tacky question to his questioners
(Senator, they’re interviewing you, you jackass); whether it’s
Specter’s germane and deliciously macabre one-line zinger in response;
Brownback’s lamely pious retort that he’s “praying” for Specter when
his colleague needs treatment, not prayers; or Specter’s eminent
reasoning on the beginning of life followed by Brownback’s vapid and
wilting rhetoric.

But that’s basically the whole debate. Republicans can talk about how
a cluster of 100 cells is a human being, but they can’t hold a press
event where Bush kisses Arlen Specter’s shiny bald head.
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 14, 2005 at 5:17:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, as there seems to be a heap of people on here very conversant and experienced with all this stuff (so great!) I am wondering if anyone can suggest what I can do for excessive Night Sweating!!!!  OMG it’s hideous!!!  I have to purposely chose a side of the bed at night cos I get up at the very least once to change from head to toe saturation of P.J’s and move to the other side of bed for dryness (‘less I bin stretchin’ out…) anywayyyyy… gross topic, but a huge problem!!! It’s winter here and it’s been realllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy frosty and, well, … FEK DIS!!
Fanks
Kirk
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI [mailto:rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 7:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants

neurontin is an anti convulsion medication and used for manic bi polar 1st. hand exp. used it 2 days after my detox 1200 mg. helped peel me off the ceiling is stable and helped for sleep compatable with detox and was very helpful went up to 1800 after 3 days stabalized mood i know it helped without major side effects in some cases we used it with patients in mexico its known as gabapentina over the counter there . little note after 2nd. treatment i no longer have had to treat bi polar have had no mania and have been off all psycotropic mood stabalizers for 1 year amazing considering i was a registerd  J cat in institutions wasn’t bad always got my own room and a little camera to watch how i was doing . for 10 years the pumped every combonation of mood stabalizers my favorite self med. was methamphetamine though it got rid of the mania it had this psycotic side effect . I sometimes wonder if doctors ever really had a fair chance of knowing what was really wrong with me other than the obvious being an addict..
            thanx everyone for your personal experiences      rocky
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
PS – Steve, has there been any discussion on the bupe list of 
gabapentin (neurontin) for sleep and twitches? I have heard that it 
is commonly prescribed to ease withdrawal, and the claimed mood 
stabilising effect may help with anxiety. And not addictive.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:03:24 -0700 slowone@hush.ai wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:32:44 -0700 stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>> I found a chat line like this on bupe 
>>and i became interested in it. …
>> I am on my 5th day and I feel great.
>>
>> I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have 
>>absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all. 
>>
>>… I really feel great today. 
>>I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me 

>
>>but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem lik e they are 
>>common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have 
>>twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked 

>
>>for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said 
>>that they will go away and he asked me to go a week and we will 
>>see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people 

>
>>on the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they 
>>used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this 
>>even better. 
>
>It’s great that you found something that is working for you. Watch 

>
>out for the valium though – benzodiazepines are apparently one of 
>the harder addictions to break, and ibogaine will not help with 
>them.
>
>
>
>Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
>secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
>
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>http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434
>
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>Program: 
>http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
>
>
>
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 14, 2005 at 4:51:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oo I was interested to know if anyone here has tried the Blue Lotus…….. was very drawn to it….
Thanks
Kirk xx
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au] 
Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 2:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

Noticed they have this extract there, similar to Iboga.
They claim “Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency.”

Does anyone know any more about this? Not much info on erowid either..
The reason I ask is that this plant has not been banned yet, so may be worth looking into. Ibogaine is very hard (though not impossible) to find in Australia.

Cheers
Boris

“Voacanga Africana Pure Alkaloid Extract
With some similarities to Tabernathe iboga we feel research should open up it’s doors to this product as a possible alternative for study. Approximately 15g of Root bark is used to produce 1g of extract. The result is a 95% pure alkaloid Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin and other unidentified alkkaloids. Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency. No further study has been done to our knowledge.”

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2005 1:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

>From: admin@ethnogarden.com
>To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
>Subject: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:02 +0100
>
>Greetings Folks,
>
>A quick update for your regarding plant season and the release and availability of new products.
>
>Coming shortly.
>
>We will have a very nice strain of Psychotria viridis dried leaves and our Ayahuasca herbs will be coming down in price to the customer.
>
>New products
>
>Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract
>We have finally released our Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract containing 90% Ibogaine and 10% Tabernathine and ibogaine!
>This material is available on site now and ready for shipment. Unfortunately we were not able to keep the cost down as much as we would have like however it is still more reasonably priced the Ibogaine hcl and is offered @ $325 Canadian dollars per g with the same activity as hcl. We are glad to be able to offer this finally after 2-3 years of development on refinement.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_80/proid_189
>
>
>Chinese topical errection stone.
>”Just as the name says” A topical Viagra.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_86/proid_281
>
>
>Pocket vaporizers.
>Very nifty little gadgets which work amazing.
>Please view further information here.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_85/proid_282/
>
>Live plants.
>Salvia divinroum Luna clones are now available.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_88/proid_283
>Beautiful plants established with several leaves.
>
>Specials.
>
>Rivea corymbosa seeds
>Kava 70% Kavalkatone extract tar
>
>You may find all our specials available here!
>
>
>We will also have a new grafting stock available to customers for speeding up growth of Peyote shortly.
>Pereskiopsis spathulata are optimal and very cost effective for grafting stock.
>
>Banisteriopsis caapi and Sceletium plants will also be available shortly for shipment.
>
>Unfortunately our Diploptereys plant has not produced as we would have liked. We are continuing to work with this plant to establish cuttings for sale however do not have any as of yet.
>
>We will also offer to past customers and forum members 250ml Sassafras oil for $350
>Please contact us directly if you are interested in this or any other refined materials.
>
>Love light and pleasant vibrations.
>
>The Ethnogarden Crew!
>
>
>
>Jason Callan
>Ethnogarden Botanicals
>President and Founding Director.
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>www.ethnogarden.com
>admin@ethnogarden.com
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] No sleep and all play makes tink a space cadet
Date: June 14, 2005 at 4:50:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Valerian root is not doing it, and i don’t want to take any benzos,
and chamomille tea only gets me so far.
Suggestions for sleep greatly appreciated!
love
tink

Sleep suggestions:-  Hit yerself over the head with a:
A:  hammer
B:  cast iron frypan
C:  soft fluffy pillow (if ya do that enough times you get tired and fall
asleep)

If that don’t work, get someone else to do either A, B or C.  Unfortunately
this usually leads to them falling asleep from C and you resorting to A or
B.

Count Sheep.  Once the bedroom is full of sheep, let them go out the back
and come back in the front and count them again.  Try to find sheep what
don’t Maaaaaa too much.  Counting cows  is just soooo not practical  as it
takes a far bigger truck to get them to your bedroom.  Come on now, it’s
common sense really isn’t it?  Also, their poo is a lot messier, although if
it is winter you can put your feet in a cow pat to warm them up (true
story).

Hippy shit:- bach flower  remedies; honeysuckle (perhaps to help break the
bonds of the past? Using drugs to sleep? Returning to normal sleep
pattern….)  Olive to strengthen exhaustion or mind and body, hornbeam
perhaps.exhaustion states…  do ya know a hippy shit shop (heh, say that
fast five times) that makes them up for ya?
Passion flower I reckon is good, I have a mix of passion flower, oat straw
and peppermint, makes me drowsy everytime…..

Ah well, that be my wealth of info fer noo, if I think of anyfink else ull
letcha no!
Luff hugs and where the hell is that SandWoman???
Kirk xxxx

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] gabapentin pt2
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:27:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

further googling came up with this:

Letter to the Editor
Gabapentin Therapy for Cocaine Cravings
WILFRID NOËL RABY, PH.D., M.D.
New York, N.Y.

To the Editor: A difficult aspect of treatment for cocaine addiction is the recurrent nature of cravings, even long after active use has ceased. Cravings can be controlled in the early stages of withdrawal, but pharmacological agents that can abate cocaine cravings beyond the withdrawal phase are still wanting. I report on two patients with a long history of cocaine addiction in whom cravings were greatly reduced by daily use of gabapentin.

Mr. A was a 42-year-old man with a history of cocaine addiction since the age of 17 and heroin addiction since age 28. After repeated attempts at detoxification and rehabilitation, he was able to forgo the use of cocaine, then heroin, and later methadone. During his 15 years of substance abuse treatment, he had received imipramine for depression at doses of 75–300 mg/day. During the year after his last use of methadone, Mr. A became increasingly engaged in restoring his relationship with his children and in computer training through a vocational program. The many difficulties and setbacks he faced often discouraged him; it was at these times that his cravings for cocaine returned. After a discussion about the experimental nature of gabapentin treatment, he agreed to a trial of gabapentin while continuing treatment with imipramine, 200 mg/day. His dose of gabapentin was increased to 400 mg b.i.d. over 1 week. His blood level of gabapentin at that dose was 12.4 mg/liter (>2 mg/liter is needed for seizure control). He reported that his cravings had completely disappeared within a month of reaching a dose of 800 mg/day.

Ms. B was a 31-year-old woman with a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder and cocaine abuse. Her psychotic symptoms were well controlled with a bimonthly injection of 50 mg of fluphenazine decanoate. She required supplements of oral fluphenazine, up to 20 mg/day, to control auditory hallucinations immediately after she used crack cocaine, which she typically consumed night and day during binges lasting up to 10 days. Afterward she could be abstinent for several months. Her relapses usually coincided with returning to live with her mother in a crack-infested neighborhood, which would prompt strong cravings and vivid dreams about smoking crack. She began a course of oral gabapentin therapy, reaching a dose of 1200 mg b.i.d. At that dose, her blood level of the drug was 15.6 mg/liter. She reported a marked reduction in cravings, at times being able to live in the crack-infested neighborhood without relapsing. In the 9 months since she began gabapentin treatment, she has experienced one relapse, which consisted of smoking two crack cigarettes.

Frustration with the difficulty of treating cocaine cravings led me to an extensive review of the neuroanatomy of the ventral tegmental area, including the nucleus accumbens, which is thought to drive many aspects of addictive behaviors (1). Within the nucleus accumbens, a large number of {gamma}-aminobutyric acid (GABA) neurons and axon fibers have been noted (2). Repeated cocaine use inhibits GABA release from nucleus accumbens axon terminals in the ventral tegmental area, where the mesolimbic dopaminergic neurons are located (3). This effect attenuates the GABA-mediated feedback inhibitory action of nucleus accumbens neurons onto ascending mesolimbic dopaminergic neurons, leading to increased activation of dopamine neurons projecting to the nucleus accumbens. Gabapentin increases brain GABA levels proportionally with dose, typically in the 800–2400-mg range (4). It was thus hypothesized that gabapentin restores the altered feedback inhibition from the nucleus accumbens. These neurobiological data, the excellent pharmacological profile of gabapentin, and a report about an addicted woman who noticed a decrease in her cravings for cocaine after she began taking 600–1500 mg/day of her husband’s gabapentin (5) prompted the trials described previously. Neither patient experienced significant side effects, such as sedation or ataxia, which are common with gabapentin therapy.

Should these findings be corroborated by further clinical observations and studies, gabapentin could become a safe, effective, and well-tolerated pharmacological agent to target this most vexing problem of recurrent cravings for cocaine.

References

1. Withers NW, Pulvirenti L, Koob GF, Gillin JC: Cocaine abuse and dependence. J Clin Psychopharmacol 1995; 15:63–78[CrossRef][Medline]
2. Parent A, Cote PY, Lavoie B: Chemical anatomy of primate basal ganglia. Prog Neurobiol 1995; 46:131–197[CrossRef][Medline]
3. Cameron DL, Williams JT: Cocaine inhibits GABA release in the VTA through endogenous 5-HT. J Neurosci 1994; 14:6763–6767[Abstract]
4. Taylor CP, Gee NS, Su TZ, Kocsis JD, Welty DF, Brown JP, Dooley DJ, Boden P, Singh L: A summary of mechanistic hypotheses of gabapentin pharmacology. Epilepsy Res 1998; 29:233–249[Medline]
5. Markowitz JS, Finkenbine R, Myrick H, King L, Carson WH: Gabapentin: abuse in a cocaine user: implications for treatment? (letter). J Clin Psychopharmacol 1997; 17:423–424[CrossRef][Medline]

—- Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

300 mg gabapentin before bed works well for some (good sleep and

good feeling in the morning), but makes others uneasy:

http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.gabapentin.html

decided to look this one up, as a possibity for controlling cravings, and found some interesting info that may particularly apply to Steve’s case.

http://www.crazymeds.org/neurontin.html

“Neurontin (gabapentin) has a weird drug-drug interaction with opiates. The opiates make Neurontin (gabapentin) work better, but the Neurontin (gabapentin) makes the opiates less efficient! It’s weird, and since Neurontin (gabapentin) isn’t really metabolized, who the hell knows what the deal is with that. This is spelled out in the PI sheet, but who reads those, right?  When you take Neurontin (gabapentin) along with hydrocodone (a.k.a. Vicodin), it decreases the bioavailability of the hydrocodone by up to 22%!  While the bioavailability of Neurontin (gabapentin) is increased by 14%.  It’s even odder when combined with morphine.  As Mouse points out there’s an element of timing involved, as the one article on the interaction has morphine administered two hours before the Neurontin (gabapentin).   The morphine was unaffected, having pretty much been on its way towards peak plasma, but the Neurontin (gabapentin) bioavailability was increased by a whopping 44%!  We have no idea if this effect carries over to the artificial opiods, like Demerol or buprenorphine.”

Also seems like a good alternative to benzos for anxiety – much less side-effects, much less severe withdrawal, much less  addictive.

http://www.priory.com/focus8.htm#Tolerability

http://www.vcu-cme.com/gaba/overview.html

its similar to vigabatrin, which can been used to treat cravings

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2003/G/20034697.html

but may have some advantages over it, including less side effects.

It seems using these drugs for a few months to control cravings reduces cravings in the long run, as opposed to using benzos, which have all those side-effects which would increase cravings.

There is also a form of it, Pregabalin

http://anxietyhelp.org/treatment/medication/pregabalin.html

that is stronger, is as effective as Xanax for anxiety, but is very new and seems to have more severe side effects than gabapentin. was only approved in Europe last year.

cheers

Boris

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] gabapentin
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:16:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

300 mg gabapentin before bed works well for some (good sleep and

good feeling in the morning), but makes others uneasy:

http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.gabapentin.html

decided to look this one up, as a possibity for controlling cravings, and found some interesting info that may particularly apply to Steve’s case.
http://www.crazymeds.org/neurontin.html

“Neurontin (gabapentin) has a weird drug-drug interaction with opiates. The opiates make Neurontin (gabapentin) work better, but the Neurontin (gabapentin) makes the opiates less efficient! It’s weird, and since Neurontin (gabapentin) isn’t really metabolized, who the hell knows what the deal is with that. This is spelled out in the PI sheet, but who reads those, right?  When you take Neurontin (gabapentin) along with hydrocodone (a.k.a. Vicodin), it decreases the bioavailability of the hydrocodone by up to 22%!  While the bioavailability of Neurontin (gabapentin) is increased by 14%.  It’s even odder when combined with morphine.  As Mouse points out there’s an element of timing involved, as the one article on the interaction has morphine administered two hours before the Neurontin (gabapentin).   The morphine was unaffected, having pretty much been on its way towards peak plasma, but the Neurontin (gabapentin) bioavailability was increased by a whopping 44%!  We have no idea if this effect carries over to the artificial opiods, like Demerol or buprenorphine.”

Also seems like a good alternative to benzos for anxiety – much less side-effects, much less severe withdrawal, much less  addictive.
http://www.priory.com/focus8.htm#Tolerability
http://www.vcu-cme.com/gaba/overview.html

its similar to vigabatrin, which can been used to treat cravings
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2003/G/20034697.html
but may have some advantages over it, including less side effects.

It seems using these drugs for a few months to control cravings reduces cravings in the long run, as opposed to using benzos, which have all those side-effects which would increase cravings.

There is also a form of it, Pregabalin
http://anxietyhelp.org/treatment/medication/pregabalin.html
that is stronger, is as effective as Xanax for anxiety, but is very new and seems to have more severe side effects than gabapentin. was only approved in Europe last year.

cheers
Boris

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Salvia and ibogaine?
Date: June 13, 2005 at 8:04:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What would salvia do to a recently treated iboganaut?  Curious but not
suicidal :]
Any info greatly appreciated…
love to all
t(w)ink(le)

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom
Date: June 13, 2005 at 6:24:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just thinking about you.  glad to here you’re on the mend.  And
yeahoo, weeha, I’m with you on the no comparison factor with
ibogaine!!!
hope your better sooner than later
love
tink

On 6/13/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all. Still healing over here and actaully looking a whole lot better
than I have been but still no feeling in my face for those of you who know
what I’m refering to.
I tried Kratom extract several times from two different sources and NO it
did not work for me but I hear that it has worked for some people but for me
I tried smoking it and drinking the tea and I got nothing out of it.
Ibogaine rocks. Nothing compares. Returned to a pre addcited state. Your
never gonna get that from Kratom.

Fire3456@aol.com wrote:

Has anyone experimented using Kratom as a tool in aiding recovery?  I was
reading a little on it, and it sounds like it may help with w/d’s, depending
how you use it.  A little is supposed to give you energy, while a lot will
help with relaxation/sleep.
I was particularly interested in the “sleep” effect of it.  I’ve always
had problems sleeping, and I’m trying to make a “game plan” for when I take
that last step off my taper.

__________________________________________________
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom
Date: June 13, 2005 at 6:19:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all. Still healing over here and actaully looking a whole lot better than I have been but still no feeling in my face for those of you who know what I’m refering to.
I tried Kratom extract several times from two different sources and NO it did not work for me but I hear that it has worked for some people but for me I tried smoking it and drinking the tea and I got nothing out of it. Ibogaine rocks. Nothing compares. Returned to a pre addcited state. Your never gonna get that from Kratom.

Fire3456@aol.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented using Kratom as a tool in aiding recovery?  I was reading a little on it, and it sounds like it may help with w/d’s, depending how you use it.  A little is supposed to give you energy, while a lot will help with relaxation/sleep.
I was particularly interested in the “sleep” effect of it.  I’ve always had problems sleeping, and I’m trying to make a “game plan” for when I take that last step off my taper.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 13, 2005 at 3:23:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

neurontin is an anti convulsion medication and used for manic bi polar 1st. hand exp. used it 2 days after my detox 1200 mg. helped peel me off the ceiling is stable and helped for sleep compatable with detox and was very helpful went up to 1800 after 3 days stabalized mood i know it helped without major side effects in some cases we used it with patients in mexico its known as gabapentina over the counter there . little note after 2nd. treatment i no longer have had to treat bi polar have had no mania and have been off all psycotropic mood stabalizers for 1 year amazing considering i was a registerd  J cat in institutions wasn’t bad always got my own room and a little camera to watch how i was doing . for 10 years the pumped every combonation of mood stabalizers my favorite self med. was methamphetamine though it got rid of the mania it had this psycotic side effect . I sometimes wonder if doctors ever really had a fair chance of knowing what was really wrong with me other than the obvious being an addict..
thanx everyone for your personal experiences      rocky
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
PS – Steve, has there been any discussion on the bupe list of
gabapentin (neurontin) for sleep and twitches? I have heard that it
is commonly prescribed to ease withdrawal, and the claimed mood
stabilising effect may help with anxiety. And not addictive.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:03:24 -0700 slowone@hush.ai wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:32:44 -0700 stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>> I found a chat line like this on bupe
>>and i became interested in it. …
>> I am on my 5th day and I feel great.
>>
>> I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have
>>absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all.
>>
>>… I really feel great today.
>>I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me

>
>>but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem like they are
>>common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have
>>twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked

>
>>for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said
>>that they will go away and he asked me to go a week and we will
>>see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people

>
>>on the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they
>>used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this
>>even better.
>
>It’s great that you found something that is working for you. Watch

>
>out for the valium though – benzodiazepines are apparently one of
>the harder addictions to break, and ibogaine will not help with
>them.
>
>
>
>Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
>secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sleep issues
Date: June 13, 2005 at 1:04:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that if one had a serious habit and a benzo habit on top of that it will be almsoot imposible to get back the “normal” sleep cycle without using benzos or barbitures–just my opinion from what i witnessed happening to me and close friends
i noticed that i had a good response to homepathic remedies concerning sleep issues but the sleep was still resltess with quite a few wake ups during the night…..all the natural shit did work but i had to take 10 times the recomended dosage and it was ridulously expensive…i mean like hundreeds a month…melatanoin did nthing for me with 40g before night nor did 5htp ….weed only made me hungry and i felt even worse while lying down…
its 6 months now since my treamtn and im lucky if i get 4 hours of restful sleep….
the only thing that helps to get a full nights rest now a days is to bang up some down…..oh well.
BUT i have an appt to a sleep clinic this wed for which i waited since Jan so i m really anxious to see what up……

Namaste
Matthew

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:52:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what I have noticed as helpful was magic mushrooms tea mix before bedtime
so even if you don’t sleep you have a good time ; ).  small doses during
day time (without the tripping)
to ease withdrawls and good mood.

PS – Steve, has there been any discussion on the bupe list of
gabapentin (neurontin) for sleep and twitches? I have heard that it
is commonly prescribed to ease withdrawal, and the claimed mood
stabilising effect may help with anxiety. And not addictive.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:03:24 -0700 slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:32:44 -0700 stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
I found a chat line like this on bupe
and i became interested in it. …
I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have
absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all.

… I really feel great today.
I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me

but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem like they are
common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have
twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked

for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said
that they will go away and  he asked me to go a week and we will
see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people

on  the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they
used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this
even better.

It’s great that you found something that is working for you. Watch

out for the valium though – benzodiazepines are apparently one of
the harder addictions to break, and ibogaine will not help with
them.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Chloral Hydrate
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:40:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone have any info on the use of chloral hydrate after Ibogaine treatment. Placidyl would work good too but has been discontinued. I would think that chloral hydrate would work as long as it doesn’t cause a weird reaction when combined with Ibogaine. It’s been around a long time and should be reasonably easy to get from a Doc who is sympathetic to the Ibogaine treatment. It’s not addictive that I know of and just plain not enough fun to party on. I tried it, then moved right to the tuinals.        Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:29:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Boris, I may be wrong but I think that the Vocanga or however you spell it has been looked at. It takes a whole lot of it to get the Ibogaine affect. There needs to be some study to see just how much would be effective for opiod dependence. Let me repeat that I could be wrong here. Bigger minds than mine have the info. Maybe they will post something about it. Come on Jasen, give me some shit here about my fuzzy research and give up the facts if you have them. Calling Steve Anker, calling Steve Anker.          Randy

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:19:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PS – Steve, has there been any discussion on the bupe list of
gabapentin (neurontin) for sleep and twitches? I have heard that it
is commonly prescribed to ease withdrawal, and the claimed mood
stabilising effect may help with anxiety. And not addictive.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:03:24 -0700 slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:32:44 -0700 stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
I found a chat line like this on bupe
and i became interested in it. …
I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have
absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all.

… I really feel great today.
I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me

but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem like they are
common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have
twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked

for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said
that they will go away and  he asked me to go a week and we will
see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people

on  the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they
used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this
even better.

It’s great that you found something that is working for you. Watch

out for the valium though – benzodiazepines are apparently one of
the harder addictions to break, and ibogaine will not help with
them.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] No sleep and all play makes tink a space cadet
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:13:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Suggestions for sleep greatly appreciated!

http://www.rain-tree.com/mulungu.htm

300 mg gabapentin before bed works well for some (good sleep and
good feeling in the morning), but makes others uneasy:
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.gabapentin.html

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 13, 2005 at 11:03:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:32:44 -0700 stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
I found a chat line like this on bupe
and i became interested in it. …
I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have
absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all.

… I really feel great today.
I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me
but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem like they are
common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have
twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked
for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said
that they will go away and  he asked me to go a week and we will
see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people
on  the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they
used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this
even better.

It’s great that you found something that is working for you. Watch
out for the valium though – benzodiazepines are apparently one of
the harder addictions to break, and ibogaine will not help with
them.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 13, 2005 at 10:07:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Noticed they have this extract there, similar to Iboga.
They claim “Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency.”

Does anyone know any more about this? Not much info on erowid either..
The reason I ask is that this plant has not been banned yet, so may be worth looking into. Ibogaine is very hard (though not impossible) to find in Australia.

Cheers
Boris

“Voacanga Africana Pure Alkaloid Extract
With some similarities to Tabernathe iboga we feel research should open up it’s doors to this product as a possible alternative for study. Approximately 15g of Root bark is used to produce 1g of extract. The result is a 95% pure alkaloid Reported to contain voacangine (carbomethoxy-ibogaine), ibogamin and other unidentified alkkaloids. Minimal study showed it acting similar to iboga on opiate dependency. No further study has been done to our knowledge.”

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2005 1:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update

>From: admin@ethnogarden.com
>To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
>Subject: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:02 +0100
>
>Greetings Folks,
>
>A quick update for your regarding plant season and the release and availability of new products.
>
>Coming shortly.
>
>We will have a very nice strain of Psychotria viridis dried leaves and our Ayahuasca herbs will be coming down in price to the customer.
>
>New products
>
>Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract
>We have finally released our Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract containing 90% Ibogaine and 10% Tabernathine and ibogaine!
>This material is available on site now and ready for shipment. Unfortunately we were not able to keep the cost down as much as we would have like however it is still more reasonably priced the Ibogaine hcl and is offered @ $325 Canadian dollars per g with the same activity as hcl. We are glad to be able to offer this finally after 2-3 years of development on refinement.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_80/proid_189
>
>
>Chinese topical errection stone.
>”Just as the name says” A topical Viagra.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_86/proid_281
>
>
>Pocket vaporizers.
>Very nifty little gadgets which work amazing.
>Please view further information here.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_85/proid_282/
>
>Live plants.
>Salvia divinroum Luna clones are now available.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_88/proid_283
>Beautiful plants established with several leaves.
>
>Specials.
>
>Rivea corymbosa seeds
>Kava 70% Kavalkatone extract tar
>
>You may find all our specials available here!
>
>
>We will also have a new grafting stock available to customers for speeding up growth of Peyote shortly.
>Pereskiopsis spathulata are optimal and very cost effective for grafting stock.
>
>Banisteriopsis caapi and Sceletium plants will also be available shortly for shipment.
>
>Unfortunately our Diploptereys plant has not produced as we would have liked. We are continuing to work with this plant to establish cuttings for sale however do not have any as of yet.
>
>We will also offer to past customers and forum members 250ml Sassafras oil for $350
>Please contact us directly if you are interested in this or any other refined materials.
>
>Love light and pleasant vibrations.
>
>The Ethnogarden Crew!
>
>
>
>Jason Callan
>Ethnogarden Botanicals
>President and Founding Director.
>TEL:(01)705-322-6614
>FAX:(01)705-322-6615
>www.ethnogarden.com
>admin@ethnogarden.com
Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] No sleep and all play makes tink a space cadet
Date: June 13, 2005 at 7:48:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My dad is currently trying to chase an angry wasp out of the house,
and the last words from him were, “FREEZE!! Get out of the house,
nasty flying stingy thing!!!  if I had a 45, I’d be shooting at it!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!”
We’ve been coming up with some very silly band names (Nick Fury & The
Vodka Boxers) and laughing our asses of, which is such a nice way to
finish up a wonderful visit.  Little scary seeing the mad as a hatter
gene is definately hereditary.
The sun is up, the sky is blue, the frogs are loud.
I still twitch my way through the night a bit, but other than lack of
sleep, haven’t felt better.
Valerian root is not doing it, and i don’t want to take any benzos,
and chamomille tea only gets me so far.
Suggestions for sleep greatly appreciated!
love
tink

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] From ‘Fred On Everything’ on the’Fred Columns’
Date: June 13, 2005 at 4:25:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

mean it, how rude.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Preston, I agree it is rude, I’m proud not to be an American! ; )

you look cool , thanks for sharing.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] From Ghandi to the Python Elite
Date: June 13, 2005 at 1:39:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ghandi chose the spinning wheel to voice his pacifist civil disobedience. Others prefer the well oiled stainless Python to make the point. both make the point quite well. I suppose it’s a regional preference. To better times , ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:34 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] From “Fred On Everything” on the”Fred Columns”

>Finally, work the system. The government, if you let it, will take
roughly half of your income, give much of it to useless bureaucrats,
much to various forms of welfare, use much to bomb countries you may
have no desire to bomb, and much to force upon you services, such as
horrible schools, that you do not want. The central question regarding
government is whether you can take more from it than it takes from
you.<

I got a letter from the IRS the other day, asking why I didn’t file my taxes last year and to explain immediately my reasons for not doing so. I live under a poverty line so low they have a LOT of fucking gall writing me to ask me for my money, especially since they’re gonna use it to bomb other countries while denying me and what, 44 million others I think is the current number, guaranteed health care? Get real you blue meanie types! I mean it, how rude.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <vox@mindvox.com>; “Anne Parfitt” <anne@gmavt.net>; <EilleC@aol.com>; “Vyctorya Emerson” <vyctorya58@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 12:15 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] From “Fred On Everything” on the”Fred Columns”

A Matter Of Allegiance

And Why One Might Wisely Withold It

May 29, 2005

I wish to propose a salubrious anarchy, a deliberate renunciation of
fealty to country, society, and government, an assertion of
independence from folly and moral decay. Permit me to offer a taxing
political idea: When a society ceases to be worthy of support, it is
reasonable to withdraw support. The time, I submit, has come.

Here I do not mean to urge crime or counsel treason, but to suggest
quiet renunciation of the national disaster. Ask yourself how much of
American life pleases you. The schools are run by fools to manufacture
fools, government grows more intrusive by the day, and culture is
determined by the triple cloacae of New York, Hollywood, and
Washington. Freedom withers, not only in the ominous encroachment of
police powers, but in the loss of control over schools, church,
hiring, daily life. We are no longer our own. The United States is not
the country we are told it is, and not the country it was.

How to escape? The beginning, and the most difficult, is a moral
distancing. Those who care must disentangle themselves from the cobweb
loyalties and factitious duties with which we have been unconsciously
encumbered. From childhood we learn patriotism, that one must vote,
that if our way is not perfect it is at least best, that we must
support anything however bad because were were born in a particular
place. Why?

Let me suggest that one owes loyalty to one’s family and friends, to
common decency, and to nothing else. Render under Caesar what you
must, keep what you can, and swear allegiance to nothing. Here I do
not mean just the government, but the zeitgeist, the miasmic fetor of
trashy culture, the desperate consumerism, the entire psychic odor of
a society in decomposition.

Begin with things so fundamental as seldom to be reflected upon. For
example, do not imagine that you are under an obligation to marry, or
to have children, or to raise them as the government requires.
Procreate if you choose, but only if you genuinely want to procreate.
It is not your job to perpetuate a civilization that is daily less
deserving of perpetuation.

But: never let the government have your children. Once they are had,
your responsibility is to them. Teach them at home. Better yet, go
abroad. Other countries do not force you to pay for an academically
retrograde moral cesspool and then to drown your children in it. You
might be astonished to know Argentina, for example.

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what it can do for
you—you ought to get some of your taxes back.

Do not tie yourself to…anything. The price of freedom is poverty:
freedom grows as your needs diminish. Less apothegmatically, if you
believe that you need a vast house in a prestigious suburb, then you
will need a lucrative job to pay for it. Having tied your psychic
contentment to such an abode you will also believe that you need
impressive cars and will therefore be tied to a retirement system and,
bingo, the door of the trap falls. This, we are told, is the American
Dream. I fear it has become so.

I lived years ago in a second-hand house trailer in the woods. I do
not know what it cost, or would cost today, but perhaps fifteen
thousand dollars. It was perfectly comfortable, warm in winter,
air-conditioned in summer. Mornings were blessedly quiet unless you
regard birdsong as noise. A brick barbecue provided a place to produce
ribs and drink bourbon and water. A couple of companionable dogs
rounded out the ensemble. They had the run of the trailer, as was
right.

Now, living in a trailer is to the consumerist sensibility simply too
degrading and so…I mean, my god, how could you face the neighbors?
(There weren’t any.) But aside from damage to a servile dependent
vanity, what is the drawback? A couple of hundred dollars buys a
remarkably good stereo, music is free, libraries are good, and I for
one am more comfortable in jeans and tee shirt than in Calvin and
Klein trappings.

When your expenses are few, your susceptibility to economic serfdom is
small. You do not need to work miserably in a pointless job for a boss
you would gleefully strangle. Yes, you need money. The first principle
is never to work in a job that you cannot afford to quit. This means
avoiding any job with a retirement, of which you will become a
prisoner. The second principle is to work at something portable that
you can do independently and, preferably, without capital. Retirement?
Save.

Dentistry pays well but requires pricey equipment, and it is not easy
to build a clientele. An automotive mechanic is always in demand and
the employer will usually provide the tools. Writing is a serviceable
gig and can be done from anywhere. Many varieties of technicians
readily find jobs. Remember that white-collar work, aside from tending
strongly to entangle you, gets boring. Get a commercial-diving ticket,
take a serious course in the repair of marine diesels, and spend your
life in the Pacific.

Here again the obstacles are fear, inertia, and vanity. If you come
from a family on the suburban-death track, the thought of being a mere
mechanic or dive-shop owner or what have you may be disturbing. “Don’t
I need a college degree to hold my head up?” Look at the universities,
at what they have become, and ask the question again. (Anyway,
respectable in whose eyes? Your own are the only ones that count.)

Finally, work the system. The government, if you let it, will take
roughly half of your income, give much of it to useless bureaucrats,
much to various forms of welfare, use much to bomb countries you may
have no desire to bomb, and much to force upon you services, such as
horrible schools, that you do not want. The central question regarding
government is whether you can take more from it than it takes from
you. It is much better to receive than to give. Live cheap, work only
as much as you like, enjoy life, and keep your taxes down.

You will still read of the rot and running sores of a declining
culture, but it will bother you less. These things are your problem
only to the extent that you feel yourself to be part of the society
that produces them. Don’t fight the government, as it will win. Don’t
try to reform society, because you can’t. Laugh at it. Live well. Read
much

Love
tink

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:OT Don’t read this Pluesti
Date: June 13, 2005 at 1:05:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know what to do with this so you get it.  We’re coming in across the coast and we are getting close to the flack. I can see and hear the coastal guns going off. Better check my bearings now, we might lose contact with base or even worse, lose our compass or something. Better check the sun with my sexton and watch and make sure I’m on the same page with God. OK…. we’re in tune. Fuck look at that shit, Fredrick’s just went down, one chute, two chutes, flames. We are most definitely too low to the ground. Altitude mother fucker, please gain some altitude. I’m wondering if I have enough rounds for my pistol as I tighten my straps on the seat. Just how fast can you get out of these belts and hit the air is the most important piece of information that I can think of. Gotta stay in formation, the 50’s reach out pretty good and we can protect ourselve’s. Africa seems like a long way away when I think about where we have to go back home to. We are at (whatever feet, 20,000 feet I think) and the engines are tuned just perfect. You can hear the props cut the thin air, and the sound of the engines sounds reassuring. Coming on target and the chatter on the radio is disconcerting as I try and figure out how to get the fuck outta here when we drop our load. What the fuck is that train doing? Shit they got some big guns on that thing. Damn, Look at that, Dinago’s trail chute didn’t even open before he hit the ground.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…
Date: June 12, 2005 at 10:35:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dig the purple shades Matthew.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…

In hopes that more people will post their pics i m attaching mine also …..love and laughter

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom
Date: June 12, 2005 at 10:05:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I saw something a while back about Kratom here on the list. The guy that posted it didn’t seem all that impressed about it, but this guy is like a world traveler or something and I don’t think he is easily impressed. It could help maybe. I’d like to see some data about it.   Randy

From: Fire3456@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kratom
Date: June 12, 2005 at 9:14:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anyone experimented using Kratom as a tool in aiding recovery?  I was reading a little on it, and it sounds like it may help with w/d’s, depending how you use it.  A little is supposed to give you energy, while a lot will help with relaxation/sleep.
I was particularly interested in the “sleep” effect of it.  I’ve always had problems sleeping, and I’m trying to make a “game plan” for when I take that last step off my taper.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat ot)Re:photos/ Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 8:02:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, O mie God, yu r such a freak. I love you. Quit looking like my buddy Mike. your bringin’ back those memories of scopin’ out stores and cuttin’ telephone lines. Let me think of sumthing red neck to say. OYea, here ya go. How cum you wear a dress? Does yo old lady get mad when you wear her hose? Can I borrow yo dress? I bet they’s sumpthin, scary under there.             Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 7:51:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m a flea bit painted monkey, ……………. all my friends are junkies…………….. that’s not really true. Rock on wiff yo bad self girl.                        Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…
Date: June 12, 2005 at 7:24:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In hopes that more people will post their pics i m attaching mine also …..love and laughter
Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 7:15:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you got it…waiting on the disc.  I am SUCH a good dominatrix!!  And
the pillar box red worked well.  Smoking joints and listening to “Let
It Bleed” with Dad and his psycho girlfriend(who happens to be only
one month and 4 days older than me…shudder..).  Avoiding beer so I’m
not doing anything terrifically stupid.
It’s another beautiful day in paradise, here on the MaIine Seacoast.
LIFE ROX
love you all…
tink
Kirky-can I come visit?  I have a bro in law in your neck of the woods
:]

On 6/12/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
LMAO
WE WANT PICTURES!!!!!
lUff ya heaps
Kirk xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 1:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!

I’m currently sitting in my father’s living room in Maine, drinking
coffee grown by a family friend in Kona, about to get ready for my
much younger brother’s high school graduation.  My little bro has
watched me in some of the worse conditions I’ve been in and through,
and half the reason I found the motivation to get clean, and really
stay that way, was to show that there was another person inside the
mess he knew only too well.
As I sit here, thinking about how long he and the rest of my family
have put up with me as I did  these things to myself, and to them, the
sadness and regret is being held at bay, thanks to the fact that I was
able to keep my promise.  I am here, first and foremost, and even
better, I’m here 100% opiate free.  My gift to him for his graduation
was my sobriety, and to be able to give that to him has been one of
the most incredible experiences to date.
His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.
He’s the head screamer in a noise band, and he and his little freak
brigade have all done so well, and they’re clean, too(which I find
amazing, considering what I know I was doing when I was 18….).
Thanks to ibogaine and a lot of incredibly hard work-that I’m by no
means finished with yet-being able to fulfill this promise
inparticular is one of the best days of my life.
Love and serenity,
tink

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…
Date: June 12, 2005 at 6:46:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

that sure is one hell of a lot of chocolate. I’ve recently discovered that chocolate is considered and has long been considered an aphrodisiac. You musta been horny for a year, and if you hadn’t already made the chocolate connection, I’m glad I could help explain what was going on.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…

Ok, I’ll be the next….found a couple that won’t scare anyone too much
Hehheh.. the crystals one is posey cos my sis wanted to show someone all my
stones. The chocolate one is when we won 10 kilograms of Dairy Milk, yes
it’s alllllll real.,….and the last is my daughter Zoe with her half-sister
Lily.
NEXT!
Kirk

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] From “Fred On Everything” on the”Fred Columns”
Date: June 12, 2005 at 6:34:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Finally, work the system. The government, if you let it, will take
roughly half of your income, give much of it to useless bureaucrats,
much to various forms of welfare, use much to bomb countries you may
have no desire to bomb, and much to force upon you services, such as
horrible schools, that you do not want. The central question regarding
government is whether you can take more from it than it takes from
you.<

I got a letter from the IRS the other day, asking why I didn’t file my taxes last year and to explain immediately my reasons for not doing so. I live under a poverty line so low they have a LOT of fucking gall writing me to ask me for my money, especially since they’re gonna use it to bomb other countries while denying me and what, 44 million others I think is the current number, guaranteed health care? Get real you blue meanie types! I mean it, how rude.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <vox@mindvox.com>; “Anne Parfitt” <anne@gmavt.net>; <EilleC@aol.com>; “Vyctorya Emerson” <vyctorya58@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 12:15 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] From “Fred On Everything” on the”Fred Columns”

A Matter Of Allegiance

And Why One Might Wisely Withold It

May 29, 2005

I wish to propose a salubrious anarchy, a deliberate renunciation of
fealty to country, society, and government, an assertion of
independence from folly and moral decay. Permit me to offer a taxing
political idea: When a society ceases to be worthy of support, it is
reasonable to withdraw support. The time, I submit, has come.

Here I do not mean to urge crime or counsel treason, but to suggest
quiet renunciation of the national disaster. Ask yourself how much of
American life pleases you. The schools are run by fools to manufacture
fools, government grows more intrusive by the day, and culture is
determined by the triple cloacae of New York, Hollywood, and
Washington. Freedom withers, not only in the ominous encroachment of
police powers, but in the loss of control over schools, church,
hiring, daily life. We are no longer our own. The United States is not
the country we are told it is, and not the country it was.

How to escape? The beginning, and the most difficult, is a moral
distancing. Those who care must disentangle themselves from the cobweb
loyalties and factitious duties with which we have been unconsciously
encumbered. From childhood we learn patriotism, that one must vote,
that if our way is not perfect it is at least best, that we must
support anything however bad because were were born in a particular
place. Why?

Let me suggest that one owes loyalty to one’s family and friends, to
common decency, and to nothing else. Render under Caesar what you
must, keep what you can, and swear allegiance to nothing. Here I do
not mean just the government, but the zeitgeist, the miasmic fetor of
trashy culture, the desperate consumerism, the entire psychic odor of
a society in decomposition.

Begin with things so fundamental as seldom to be reflected upon. For
example, do not imagine that you are under an obligation to marry, or
to have children, or to raise them as the government requires.
Procreate if you choose, but only if you genuinely want to procreate.
It is not your job to perpetuate a civilization that is daily less
deserving of perpetuation.

But: never let the government have your children. Once they are had,
your responsibility is to them. Teach them at home. Better yet, go
abroad. Other countries do not force you to pay for an academically
retrograde moral cesspool and then to drown your children in it. You
might be astonished to know Argentina, for example.

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what it can do for
you—you ought to get some of your taxes back.

Do not tie yourself to…anything. The price of freedom is poverty:
freedom grows as your needs diminish. Less apothegmatically, if you
believe that you need a vast house in a prestigious suburb, then you
will need a lucrative job to pay for it. Having tied your psychic
contentment to such an abode you will also believe that you need
impressive cars and will therefore be tied to a retirement system and,
bingo, the door of the trap falls. This, we are told, is the American
Dream. I fear it has become so.

I lived years ago in a second-hand house trailer in the woods. I do
not know what it cost, or would cost today, but perhaps fifteen
thousand dollars. It was perfectly comfortable, warm in winter,
air-conditioned in summer. Mornings were blessedly quiet unless you
regard birdsong as noise. A brick barbecue provided a place to produce
ribs and drink bourbon and water. A couple of companionable dogs
rounded out the ensemble. They had the run of the trailer, as was
right.

Now, living in a trailer is to the consumerist sensibility simply too
degrading and so…I mean, my god, how could you face the neighbors?
(There weren’t any.) But aside from damage to a servile dependent
vanity, what is the drawback? A couple of hundred dollars buys a
remarkably good stereo, music is free, libraries are good, and I for
one am more comfortable in jeans and tee shirt than in Calvin and
Klein trappings.

When your expenses are few, your susceptibility to economic serfdom is
small. You do not need to work miserably in a pointless job for a boss
you would gleefully strangle. Yes, you need money. The first principle
is never to work in a job that you cannot afford to quit. This means
avoiding any job with a retirement, of which you will become a
prisoner. The second principle is to work at something portable that
you can do independently and, preferably, without capital. Retirement?
Save.

Dentistry pays well but requires pricey equipment, and it is not easy
to build a clientele. An automotive mechanic is always in demand and
the employer will usually provide the tools. Writing is a serviceable
gig and can be done from anywhere. Many varieties of technicians
readily find jobs. Remember that white-collar work, aside from tending
strongly to entangle you, gets boring. Get a commercial-diving ticket,
take a serious course in the repair of marine diesels, and spend your
life in the Pacific.

Here again the obstacles are fear, inertia, and vanity. If you come
from a family on the suburban-death track, the thought of being a mere
mechanic or dive-shop owner or what have you may be disturbing. “Don’t
I need a college degree to hold my head up?” Look at the universities,
at what they have become, and ask the question again. (Anyway,
respectable in whose eyes? Your own are the only ones that count.)

Finally, work the system. The government, if you let it, will take
roughly half of your income, give much of it to useless bureaucrats,
much to various forms of welfare, use much to bomb countries you may
have no desire to bomb, and much to force upon you services, such as
horrible schools, that you do not want. The central question regarding
government is whether you can take more from it than it takes from
you. It is much better to receive than to give. Live cheap, work only
as much as you like, enjoy life, and keep your taxes down.

You will still read of the rot and running sores of a declining
culture, but it will bother you less. These things are your problem
only to the extent that you feel yourself to be part of the society
that produces them. Don’t fight the government, as it will win. Don’t
try to reform society, because you can’t. Laugh at it. Live well. Read
much

Love
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…
Date: June 12, 2005 at 6:20:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, I’ll be the next….found a couple that won’t scare anyone too much
Hehheh.. the crystals one is posey cos my sis wanted to show someone all my
stones. The chocolate one is when we won 10 kilograms of Dairy Milk, yes
it’s alllllll real.,….and the last is my daughter Zoe with her half-sister
Lily.
NEXT!
Kirk

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: OT Photos…
Date: June 12, 2005 at 6:19:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, I’ll be the next….found a couple that won’t scare anyone too much
Hehheh.. the crystals one is posey cos my sis wanted to show someone all my
stones. The chocolate one is when we won 10 kilograms of Dairy Milk, yes
it’s alllllll real.,….and the last is my daughter Zoe with her half-sister
Lily.
NEXT!
Kirk

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (somewhat ot)Re:photos/ Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 6:09:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cool pics!!
Thanks Presston.I’m thesame, it is good to see who ya’ve bin yakkin’ to all
this time…. and yehh I’ve given up creating images cos they never match
up!!! (in my head that is…)
Howzah bout  some more from you others??? I guess it might be a bit ruff on
those with little mailboxes……
Anyway, thanks again
Luff to all
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 10:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat ot)Re:photos/ Beautiful day!!

His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.<

We’ll want to see photos of course.
With that in mind, I’ve attached a few photos from a recent photo shoot I
did for a book project someone is putting together here in NYC, called
something like “Future Legends of NY,” or “The New Legends of NY,” something

like that, taken about a week before my last ibo session. I figured I’d
share, since I like seeing photos of people I am corresponding with every so

often, and like to share mine too.
I realize that I rarely if ever have the mental image quite right when I

see actual photos of someone I’ve been imagining the looks of as I write
back and forth in emails. So anyway, here goes. (Warning- some might
consider these slightly risque, particularly those living in red states and
have a slightly small-town way about themselves. But I go out like this,
dj’ing and basically doing whatever actually. I get a lot of attention when
I walk down the street for some reason. I had on this bright silver thing on

last night, and couldn’t get 30 feet down the sidewalk without someone or
other saying something nice to me. It was great, much better than some of
the redneck like commentary I can get sometimes, even in Manhattan.)
Oh, and on a completely different topic, the cover of my new book,
Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing
Archaeology and Hidden History is gracing the cover of The Disinformation
Company’s new 2005 catalogue. I can’t wait to see this one on shelves. It
looks so cool, and I’ve attached the draft that hasn’t any contributor names

on it, but does have the basic graphic as it will be appearing on the book
cover.
Hope these don’t take up too much room in peoples’ boxes, as I have
reduced them in size quite a bit. Enjoy, and have a wonderful, safe and
relaxing Sunday all, please.
Thanks.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!

I’m currently sitting in my father’s living room in Maine, drinking
coffee grown by a family friend in Kona, about to get ready for my
much younger brother’s high school graduation.  My little bro has
watched me in some of the worse conditions I’ve been in and through,
and half the reason I found the motivation to get clean, and really
stay that way, was to show that there was another person inside the
mess he knew only too well.
As I sit here, thinking about how long he and the rest of my family
have put up with me as I did  these things to myself, and to them, the
sadness and regret is being held at bay, thanks to the fact that I was
able to keep my promise.  I am here, first and foremost, and even
better, I’m here 100% opiate free.  My gift to him for his graduation
was my sobriety, and to be able to give that to him has been one of
the most incredible experiences to date.
His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.
He’s the head screamer in a noise band, and he and his little freak
brigade have all done so well, and they’re clean, too(which I find
amazing, considering what I know I was doing when I was 18….).
Thanks to ibogaine and a lot of incredibly hard work-that I’m by no
means finished with yet-being able to fulfill this promise
inparticular is one of the best days of my life.
Love and serenity,
tink

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat ot)Re:photos/ Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 6:02:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.<

We’ll want to see photos of course.
With that in mind, I’ve attached a few photos from a recent photo shoot I did for a book project someone is putting together here in NYC, called something like “Future Legends of NY,” or “The New Legends of NY,” something like that, taken about a week before my last ibo session. I figured I’d share, since I like seeing photos of people I am corresponding with every so often, and like to share mine too.
I realize that I rarely if ever have the mental image quite right when I see actual photos of someone I’ve been imagining the looks of as I write back and forth in emails. So anyway, here goes. (Warning- some might consider these slightly risque, particularly those living in red states and have a slightly small-town way about themselves. But I go out like this, dj’ing and basically doing whatever actually. I get a lot of attention when I walk down the street for some reason. I had on this bright silver thing on last night, and couldn’t get 30 feet down the sidewalk without someone or other saying something nice to me. It was great, much better than some of the redneck like commentary I can get sometimes, even in Manhattan.)
Oh, and on a completely different topic, the cover of my new book, Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History is gracing the cover of The Disinformation Company’s new 2005 catalogue. I can’t wait to see this one on shelves. It looks so cool, and I’ve attached the draft that hasn’t any contributor names on it, but does have the basic graphic as it will be appearing on the book cover.
Hope these don’t take up too much room in peoples’ boxes, as I have reduced them in size quite a bit. Enjoy, and have a wonderful, safe and relaxing Sunday all, please.
Thanks.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!

I’m currently sitting in my father’s living room in Maine, drinking
coffee grown by a family friend in Kona, about to get ready for my
much younger brother’s high school graduation.  My little bro has
watched me in some of the worse conditions I’ve been in and through,
and half the reason I found the motivation to get clean, and really
stay that way, was to show that there was another person inside the
mess he knew only too well.
As I sit here, thinking about how long he and the rest of my family
have put up with me as I did  these things to myself, and to them, the
sadness and regret is being held at bay, thanks to the fact that I was
able to keep my promise.  I am here, first and foremost, and even
better, I’m here 100% opiate free.  My gift to him for his graduation
was my sobriety, and to be able to give that to him has been one of
the most incredible experiences to date.
His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.
He’s the head screamer in a noise band, and he and his little freak
brigade have all done so well, and they’re clean, too(which I find
amazing, considering what I know I was doing when I was 18….).
Thanks to ibogaine and a lot of incredibly hard work-that I’m by no
means finished with yet-being able to fulfill this promise
inparticular is one of the best days of my life.
Love and serenity,
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: OT, Tink, it’s freezing in New Zealand
Date: June 12, 2005 at 5:38:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Think it’s Jack Frost, cos I get the same thing, but I also get (and mail
arrives where it’s meant to..) the emails sent to Ibogaine, so IGNORE and
DELETE and I shall contact freenet and see if things are frozen up. Went to
the pharmacy to get my drinkie this morning, it’s been freezing every night
for the past 3-4 nights, I sat yakking to a mate for 5 minutes while she
bludged a roll-yer-own and in that time we saw several cars going sideways
and one poor woman canning off her bike. The stupid thing is that the road
is sealed with slippery stuff while the footpath has traction!! Duh, yeh
sliding people cause far more damage than sliding vehicles!!!
Anyway, going back to bed, was rather a sociable weekend!!
Luff n zzzz’s
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 1:11 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] as an aside

Capt Kirkie!!
All of my emails to you keep getting sent nowhere, and the MAILER
DAEMON keeps telling me to get stuffed!!
What’s up in NZ?
Loveya
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 5:34:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO
WE WANT PICTURES!!!!!
lUff ya heaps
Kirk xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 1:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!

I’m currently sitting in my father’s living room in Maine, drinking
coffee grown by a family friend in Kona, about to get ready for my
much younger brother’s high school graduation.  My little bro has
watched me in some of the worse conditions I’ve been in and through,
and half the reason I found the motivation to get clean, and really
stay that way, was to show that there was another person inside the
mess he knew only too well.
As I sit here, thinking about how long he and the rest of my family
have put up with me as I did  these things to myself, and to them, the
sadness and regret is being held at bay, thanks to the fact that I was
able to keep my promise.  I am here, first and foremost, and even
better, I’m here 100% opiate free.  My gift to him for his graduation
was my sobriety, and to be able to give that to him has been one of
the most incredible experiences to date.
His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.
He’s the head screamer in a noise band, and he and his little freak
brigade have all done so well, and they’re clean, too(which I find
amazing, considering what I know I was doing when I was 18….).
Thanks to ibogaine and a lot of incredibly hard work-that I’m by no
means finished with yet-being able to fulfill this promise
inparticular is one of the best days of my life.
Love and serenity,
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: [Vox] The Metaphysics of Philip K. Dick
Date: June 12, 2005 at 3:58:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what a cool fuckin day this has turned into.  I’m so full of happiness
and light, I feel like I’m beeming!!  My little bro rox the fuck out,
and he and all of his freaky friends are going to run the world the
right way(what ever that may be…the graduation address encouraged
them to be non-comformist and to think on their own, that their
individuality and creativity is what is needed to change the state of
affairs in the world.  The guy who gave the speech was dressed up like
Socrates, and said that free thinking creative individuals were
dangerous people, and he hoped that they would, each and everyone,
become as dangerous as they can in that manner).
Now it’s time for BBQ and Red Bull.
No beer, I promise, Dimitri, okay? Okay.
love
tink

On 6/12/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Hey girl. I’m home. It rained like hell on me but I never got lost. I had a
really good time hangin’ with you. You are an absolute queen. I’ll miss your
cooking, and taste in music till I see you again. Keep up the good work and
keep in touch. I have a lump in my throat. Lots of love.             Randy
“What’s up with the beach, Lets go to the beach”   Shut up Coolio and
smoke your doobie.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: [Vox] The Metaphysics of Philip K. Dick
Date: June 12, 2005 at 3:29:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey girl. I’m home. It rained like hell on me but I never got lost. I had a really good time hangin’ with you. You are an absolute queen. I’ll miss your cooking, and taste in music till I see you again. Keep up the good work and keep in touch. I have a lump in my throat. Lots of love.             Randy        “What’s up with the beach, Lets go to the beach”   Shut up Coolio and smoke your doobie.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: [Vox] The Metaphysics of Philip K. Dick
Date: June 12, 2005 at 12:22:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

vox rox too
love tink

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Friedrich von Hardenberg <knowledge-of-pain@new.rr.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2005 1:51 PM
Subject: [Vox] The Metaphysics of Philip K. Dick
To: mildreds boobs <mildredsboobs@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: club vex <clubvex@yahoogroups.com>, literature@yahoogroups.com,
vox@mindvox.com, elite sociopath <elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com>

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.12/philip.html?pg=6

The Second Coming of Philip K. Dick (continued)

The Metaphysics of Philip K. Dick
Don’t know Dick? Here’s his philosophy in capsule form. (Warning: May
cause anxiety or dizzyness.)
by Erik Davis

1. FALSE REALITIES
Today we are almost bored by the idea that reality is a just a
construct – neuroscience, postmodernism, and The Matrix have made sure
of that. But Dick remains the supreme mythmaker of the false reality.
His 1959 novel, Time Out of Joint, was the original Truman Show, while
his 1964 book, The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, describes a
society that succumbs to permanent hallucination. Faced with such
illusions, Dick’s characters have to ask, “What is real?” because
their lives (and sanity) are on the line. That’s why hipster Hollywood
loves him: Dick turned metaphysics into a whodunit.

2. HUMAN VS. MACHINE
Dick wanted to know how, in a technological society, we can recognize
the authentically human. He saw the line between people and machines
become hopelessly blurred. So his human characters often behave like
cruel robots, while spunky gadgets – like the automatic cabbie in Now
Wait for Last Year – can be sources of wisdom and kindness. And in
“The Electric Ant,” when businessman Garson Poole discovers that he is
actually an android, he doesn’t despair. Instead, he begins to
reprogram himself.

3. ENTROPY
One thing you learn from drug addiction, five marriages, and a
visionary imagination is how easily your world can fall apart. Perhaps
this was why Dick was obsessed with how things decay. He even invented
a word for one of entropy’s most ordinary manifestations: “kipple,”
which he defined as all the useless crap that creeps into our daily
lives, like junk mail and gum wrappers and old newspapers. Don’t
bother fighting it – Dick’s First Law of Kipple states that “Kipple
drives out nonkipple.”

4. THE NATURE OF GOD
Dick was a garage philosopher, an autodidact who read voraciously in
religion and metaphysics. Sometimes his speculations leaked into
everyday life. In 1974, undergoing a psychotic and/or mystical break,
Dick encountered a cosmic force he later called Valis, which stands
for Vast Active Living Intelligence System – a cybernetic God. But
keep on your toes: To sneak into our fallen world, Valis must disguise
itself as TV ads or trash – or pulpy sci-fi entertainment.

5. SOCIAL CONTROL
Dick was always pretty paranoid. But when thieves broke into his home
in 1971, it sent him over the edge. Soon he came to believe that all
political tyrannies were facets of one cosmic oppressor: the Black
Iron Prison, a timeless archetype that he associated with the Roman
Empire. Dick sometimes thought that history was an illusion and that
the Nixon administration’s dirty tricks only proved that “The Empire
never ended.” One wonders what he would think today.

<< Page 5       Page 7 >>

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] From “Fred On Everything” on the”Fred Columns”
Date: June 12, 2005 at 12:15:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, Anne Parfitt <anne@gmavt.net>, “EilleC@aol.com” <EilleC@aol.com>, Vyctorya Emerson <vyctorya58@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A Matter Of Allegiance

And Why One Might Wisely Withold It

May 29, 2005

I wish to propose a salubrious anarchy, a deliberate renunciation of
fealty to country, society, and government, an assertion of
independence from folly and moral decay. Permit me to offer a taxing
political idea: When a society ceases to be worthy of support, it is
reasonable to withdraw support. The time, I submit, has come.

Here I do not mean to urge crime or counsel treason, but to suggest
quiet renunciation of the national disaster. Ask yourself how much of
American life pleases you. The schools are run by fools to manufacture
fools, government grows more intrusive by the day, and culture is
determined by the triple cloacae of New York, Hollywood, and
Washington. Freedom withers, not only in the ominous encroachment of
police powers, but in the loss of control over schools, church,
hiring, daily life. We are no longer our own. The United States is not
the country we are told it is, and not the country it was.

How to escape? The beginning, and the most difficult, is a moral
distancing. Those who care must disentangle themselves from the cobweb
loyalties and factitious duties with which we have been unconsciously
encumbered. From childhood we learn patriotism, that one must vote,
that if our way is not perfect it is at least best, that we must
support anything however bad because were were born in a particular
place. Why?

Let me suggest that one owes loyalty to one’s family and friends, to
common decency, and to nothing else. Render under Caesar what you
must, keep what you can, and swear allegiance to nothing. Here I do
not mean just the government, but the zeitgeist, the miasmic fetor of
trashy culture, the desperate consumerism, the entire psychic odor of
a society in decomposition.

Begin with things so fundamental as seldom to be reflected upon. For
example, do not imagine that you are under an obligation to marry, or
to have children, or to raise them as the government requires.
Procreate if you choose, but only if you genuinely want to procreate.
It is not your job to perpetuate a civilization that is daily less
deserving of perpetuation.

But: never let the government have your children. Once they are had,
your responsibility is to them. Teach them at home. Better yet, go
abroad. Other countries do not force you to pay for an academically
retrograde moral cesspool and then to drown your children in it. You
might be astonished to know Argentina, for example.

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what it can do for
you—you ought to get some of your taxes back.

Do not tie yourself to…anything. The price of freedom is poverty:
freedom grows as your needs diminish. Less apothegmatically, if you
believe that you need a vast house in a prestigious suburb, then you
will need a lucrative job to pay for it. Having tied your psychic
contentment to such an abode you will also believe that you need
impressive cars and will therefore be tied to a retirement system and,
bingo, the door of the trap falls. This, we are told, is the American
Dream. I fear it has become so.

I lived years ago in a second-hand house trailer in the woods. I do
not know what it cost, or would cost today, but perhaps fifteen
thousand dollars. It was perfectly comfortable, warm in winter,
air-conditioned in summer. Mornings were blessedly quiet unless you
regard birdsong as noise. A brick barbecue provided a place to produce
ribs and drink bourbon and water. A couple of companionable dogs
rounded out the ensemble. They had the run of the trailer, as was
right.

Now, living in a trailer is to the consumerist sensibility simply too
degrading and so…I mean, my god, how could you face the neighbors?
(There weren’t any.) But aside from damage to a servile dependent
vanity, what is the drawback? A couple of hundred dollars buys a
remarkably good stereo, music is free, libraries are good, and I for
one am more comfortable in jeans and tee shirt than in Calvin and
Klein trappings.

When your expenses are few, your susceptibility to economic serfdom is
small. You do not need to work miserably in a pointless job for a boss
you would gleefully strangle. Yes, you need money. The first principle
is never to work in a job that you cannot afford to quit. This means
avoiding any job with a retirement, of which you will become a
prisoner. The second principle is to work at something portable that
you can do independently and, preferably, without capital. Retirement?
Save.

Dentistry pays well but requires pricey equipment, and it is not easy
to build a clientele. An automotive mechanic is always in demand and
the employer will usually provide the tools. Writing is a serviceable
gig and can be done from anywhere. Many varieties of technicians
readily find jobs. Remember that white-collar work, aside from tending
strongly to entangle you, gets boring. Get a commercial-diving ticket,
take a serious course in the repair of marine diesels, and spend your
life in the Pacific.

Here again the obstacles are fear, inertia, and vanity. If you come
from a family on the suburban-death track, the thought of being a mere
mechanic or dive-shop owner or what have you may be disturbing. “Don’t
I need a college degree to hold my head up?” Look at the universities,
at what they have become, and ask the question again. (Anyway,
respectable in whose eyes? Your own are the only ones that count.)

Finally, work the system. The government, if you let it, will take
roughly half of your income, give much of it to useless bureaucrats,
much to various forms of welfare, use much to bomb countries you may
have no desire to bomb, and much to force upon you services, such as
horrible schools, that you do not want. The central question regarding
government is whether you can take more from it than it takes from
you. It is much better to receive than to give. Live cheap, work only
as much as you like, enjoy life, and keep your taxes down.

You will still read of the rot and running sores of a declining
culture, but it will bother you less. These things are your problem
only to the extent that you feel yourself to be part of the society
that produces them. Don’t fight the government, as it will win. Don’t
try to reform society, because you can’t. Laugh at it. Live well. Read
much

Love
tink

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] as an aside
Date: June 12, 2005 at 9:10:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Capt Kirkie!!
All of my emails to you keep getting sent nowhere, and the MAILER
DAEMON keeps telling me to get stuffed!!
What’s up in NZ?
Loveya
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Beautiful day!!
Date: June 12, 2005 at 9:02:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m currently sitting in my father’s living room in Maine, drinking
coffee grown by a family friend in Kona, about to get ready for my
much younger brother’s high school graduation.  My little bro has
watched me in some of the worse conditions I’ve been in and through,
and half the reason I found the motivation to get clean, and really
stay that way, was to show that there was another person inside the
mess he knew only too well.
As I sit here, thinking about how long he and the rest of my family
have put up with me as I did  these things to myself, and to them, the
sadness and regret is being held at bay, thanks to the fact that I was
able to keep my promise.  I am here, first and foremost, and even
better, I’m here 100% opiate free.  My gift to him for his graduation
was my sobriety, and to be able to give that to him has been one of
the most incredible experiences to date.
His other request was that I come in full dominatrix regalia, so I’ve
re-dyed the hair pillarbox red, and have the black vinyl dress out.
He’s the head screamer in a noise band, and he and his little freak
brigade have all done so well, and they’re clean, too(which I find
amazing, considering what I know I was doing when I was 18….).
Thanks to ibogaine and a lot of incredibly hard work-that I’m by no
means finished with yet-being able to fulfill this promise
inparticular is one of the best days of my life.
Love and serenity,
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:OT Life Rocks, Turn iit up
Date: June 12, 2005 at 8:39:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The best of luck to you with the 60 day taper!!  I went way too fast,
but I’m all good now :]  Anyway, when you do get down to the lower
numbers on the milligrams, you’ll find it’s   alot harder.  At least
that’s been my experience so far, and some friends of mine agree.
Stay vigilant and know that love and serenity are being sent your way…
tink

On 6/11/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:

Thanks,
Tink I know that there is something around the corner because this is
way to easy. I am on a 60 day taper nad actually have to eremind myself that
I ned it. so I hope that due to clean up so bad the position I am in and I
want to clean up so bad that I think that I can beat it. I dont smoke and
they say on the message boards is that is an advantage. I have talked to
many about the w/ds when coming off this. Most people on the message boards
have sworn by  bupe like everyone does about Ibogaine here. Pray for me and
I will all of you. They say that a hydrocodone habit is much easier than
some of the other habits to beat on bupe so who knows. I feel good . I  dont
miss the euphoria like I was so scared of losing. Anyay I will keep you in
touch, Steve

————– Original message ————–

Help, I’m being held against my will in the most beautiful place I have
come across so far. I used to think that southern people were the only
people with hospitality. That’s bullshit. I have met some way cool people in
Vermont. I don’t want to leave. Now I’m being forced to go to Maine and sit
on the beach with a doobie so as to contemplate better. Probably have to
play some blues too. Boy, this doesn’t suck. YEEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAA
Rock on with yo bad self Jenkins.             Randy     PS I feel like
Ibogaine has given me a new life. I know it has.
—–Original Message—–
From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:15:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants

Steve-
I’m glad you feel better, whether it’s on Buprenorphine (suboxone or
subutex?) or through an ibogaine treatment. When it comes to the
point where you get sick of being on the bupe, there’s always an
alternative, and you can aways get off of it. It lasts longer in your
system than methadone, however, so be aware that, though it helps
considerably (especially the suboxone, with the naloxone opiate
block), it still is no picnic detoxing from it. I went really fast,
and it was not as painful as when I jumped off of the methadone clinic
at 120mgs, but it still sucks. It all sucks.
Keep posting, and let me know how it’s working for you. Although it’s
very tempting to go up on as high a dose as possible, I managed to
level out on twenty, and it held me well, but it took weeks of minor
detox symptoms to get there. I didn’t want to mega dose it.
GOOD FOR YOU getting off of those hydrocodones, etc. There’s a little
cliche in the rooms of NA along the lines of “Progress, not
perfection.” If you aren’t ready to do something like ibogaine, and
if you have doubts as many as yours, it’s better this way for you.
And as previously stated, you can always change your mind.
As for the bupe not being as addictive as the methadone, I don’t know
about that. It lasts longer, and they often don’t fill you in on that
little nugget of info before you start taking it. Also, if you smoke,
make sure you don’t smoke for at least 15-20 minutes prior to taking
your bupe, if it’s sublingual. Smoking makes the vessels and
corpusals contract, and you won’t get the full effect of the medicine
through your mucal membrane.
Love and serenity being sent your way, and stay on the list. Keep
asking questions. Relax and feel good about yourself for a hard
choice weighed and made, and enjoy the newness and less stressful
protocal that goes with the bupe.
Love
tink

On 6/11/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:

Hello everybody I feel like that I have cheated on everybody on this site,
but at the same time it seems to me that mostly evrybody here is just
cheering for someoene to get better. I sat and read for almost a year and
posted some. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that I read there
post and most of all the people that gave me advice, and even those that
gave me some hard love.

Vector and I think Albert but it made me realize that I issues to deal
with.
The reason for my post is that I could never get myself the courage to do
Ibogaine. I found a chat line like this on bupe and i became interested in
it. Just like the Ibogaine a mix of good post with a mix of wierd ones.
The
drug seemed safe and from my info and the people that I talked to it has
been easy to taper off. I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have absoulutely no
cravings and no w/d at all. I know that you should not have that if you
are
a candidate because it is similar to methadone as it is used as a
maintenace
drug. but it is much different not near as addictive as methaone. But my
doc says that he has a 80% rate of taperinig with very little w/d’s. I am
already tapering with no problems. I actually forget to take my pill. He
actually started me out doing the least amount to break an addiction. I
was
suprised that the docs today dont even know about Ibogaine. It seems like
somwhere they would learn about this. Anyway I felt like that I cheated
everyone here.

I was within a week to doing Ibogaine. I really feel great today. I
thought
that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me but I dont. My
only
adverse reacions that seem like they are common is that I will be tired
for
the firt two weeks and I have twitches from the way that it works against
the neutrons. I asked for something to sleep because the twitches keep me
up
he said that they will go away and he asked me to go a week and we will
see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people on the
chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they used valium to
sleep so I got some and that helped to make this even better. Love to
everyone here. I am not saying that bupe is better than Ibogaine and I
might
need it still one day. But the way I feel right now I cant see how. Love
everyone, Steve
————– Original message ————–

Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
(if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
was faster working than 5-HTp.
I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
do with $$ at this stage…..
So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
Cheers heaps
Kirsty

—- Original Message —-
From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000

Interesting link..

It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!

Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
So supplementing L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine will also work in
boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
posted earlier.

Boris

—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” wrote:
http://www.neuroreplete.com/

My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
have to say that the amino acids combined with

a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
in harmony

Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
disease.

Good night,

Claudia

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:OT Life Rocks, Turn iit up
Date: June 11, 2005 at 6:58:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks,
Tink I know that there is something around the corner because this is way to easy. I am on a 60 day taper nad actually have to eremind myself that I ned it. so I hope that due to clean up so bad the position I am in and I  want to clean up so bad that I think that I can beat it. I dont smoke and they say on the message boards is that is an advantage. I have talked to many about the w/ds when coming off this. Most people on the message boards have sworn by  bupe like everyone does about Ibogaine here. Pray for me and I will all of you. They say that a hydrocodone habit is much easier than some of the other habits to beat on bupe so who knows. I feel good . I  dont miss the euphoria like I was so scared of losing. Anyay I will keep you in touch, Steve

————– Original message ————–
Help, I’m being held against my will in the most beautiful place I have come across so far. I used to think that southern people were the only people with hospitality. That’s bullshit. I have met some way cool people in Vermont. I don’t want to leave. Now I’m being forced to go to Maine and sit on the beach with a doobie so as to contemplate better. Probably have to play some blues too. Boy, this doesn’t suck. YEEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAA Rock on with yo bad self Jenkins.             Randy     PS I feel like Ibogaine has given me a new life. I know it has.

—–Original Message—–
From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:15:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants

Steve-
I’m glad you feel better, whether it’s on Buprenorphine (suboxone or
subutex?) or through an ibogaine treatment. When it comes to the
point where you get sick of being on the bupe, there’s always an
alternative, and you can aways get off of it. It lasts longer in your
system than methadone, however, so be aware that, though it helps
considerably (especially the suboxone, with the naloxone opiate
block), it still is no picnic detoxing from it. I went really fast,
and it was not as painful as when I jumped off of the methadone clinic
at 120mgs, but it still sucks. It all sucks.
Keep posting, and let me know how it’s working for you. Although it’s
very tempting to go up on as high a dose as possible, I managed to
level out on twenty, and it held me well, but it took weeks of minor
detox symptoms to get there. I didn’t want to mega dose it.
GOOD FOR YOU getting off of those hydrocodones, etc. There’s a little
cliche in the rooms of NA along the lines of “Progress, not
perfection.” If you aren’t ready to do something like ibogaine, and
if you have doubts as many as yours, it’s better this way for you.
And as previously stated, you can always change your mind.
As for the bupe not being as addictive as the methadone, I don’t know
about that. It lasts longer, and they often don’t fill you in on that
little nugget of info before you start taking it. Also, if you smoke,
make sure you don’t smoke for at least 15-20 minutes prior to taking
your bupe, if it’s sublingual. Smoking makes the vessels and
corpusals contract, and you won’t get the full effect of the medicine
through your mucal membrane.
Love and serenity being sent your way, and stay on the list. Keep
asking questions. Relax and feel good about yourself for a hard
choice weighed and made, and enjoy the newness and less stressful
protocal that goes with the bupe.
Love
tink

On 6/11/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hello everybody I feel like that I have cheated on everybody on this site,
> but at the same time it seems to me that mostly evrybody here is just
> cheering for someoene to get better. I sat and read for almost a year and
> posted some. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that I read there
> post and most of all the people that gave me advice, and even those that
> gave me some hard love.
>
> Vector and I think Albert but it made me realize that I issues to deal with.
> The reason for my post is that I could never get myself the courage to do
> Ibogaine. I found a chat line like this on bupe and i became interested in
> it. Just like the Ibogaine a mix of good post with a mix of wierd ones. The
> drug seemed safe and from my info and the people that I talked to it has
> been easy to taper off. I am on my 5th day and I feel great.
>
> I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have absoulutely no
> cravings and no w/d at all. I know that you should not have that if you are
> a candidate because it is similar to methadone as it is used as a maintenace
> drug. but it is much different not near as addictive as methaone. But my
> doc says that he has a 80% rate of taperinig with very little w/d’s. I am
> already tapering with no problems. I actually forget to take my pill. He
> actually started me out doing the least amount to break an addiction. I was
> suprised that the docs today dont even know about Ibogaine. It seems like
> somwhere they would learn about this. Anyway I felt like that I cheated
> everyone here.
>
> I was within a week to doing Ibogaine. I really feel great today. I thought
> that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me but I dont. My only
> adverse reacions that seem like they are common is that I will be tired for
> the firt two weeks and I have twitches from the way that it works against
> the neutrons. I asked for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up
> he said that they will go away and he asked me to go a week and we will
> see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people on the
> chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they used valium to
> sleep so I got some and that helped to make this even better. Love to
> everyone here. I am not saying that bupe is better than Ibogaine and I might
> need it still one day. But the way I feel right now I cant see how. Love
> everyone, Steve
> ————– Original message ————–
>
> > Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
> > just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
> > lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
> > (if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
> > any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
> > was faster working than 5-HTp.
> > I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
> > do with $$ at this stage…..
> > So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
> > experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
> > Cheers heaps
> > Kirsty
> >
> > —- Original Message —-
> > From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
> > antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
> > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000
> >
> > >
> > >Interesting link..
> > >
> > >It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
> > >l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
> > >together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
> > >other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!
> > >
> > >Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
> > >L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
> > >So supplementing L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine will also work in
> > >boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
> > >posted earlier.
> > >
> > >Boris
> > >
> > >—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” wrote:
> > >> http://www.neuroreplete.com/
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
> > >ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
> > >my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
> > >have to say that the amino acids combined with
> > >>
> > >a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
> > >in harmony
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
> > >disease.
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >Good night,
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >Claudia
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> > >—=[\
> > >>
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >\]=——————————————————————
> > >—=[/
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> > >—=[\
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> \]=—————————————————————-
> > >—–=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 11, 2005 at 2:41:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey M
Realy fucked up situaiton u been put in…..so amazed at ur iron will to stay away from the opiates/opioids…..dont worry motherfuckers will get what they deserve sooner or later……stay safe and wishing u all teh best from the bottom of me heart……Love…..best of luck on ur surgery…..keep us posted u hear!!!!

Namaste
Matthew

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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Amazing !
Date: June 11, 2005 at 2:19:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my friend makes this comment:
hey,
i think this story might be bullshit, in part at
least.  the woman who discovered how to photograph DNA
was betrayed by her male partner, who passed a picture
of DNA on to Crick and Watson at a cocktail party.  She
was on the verge of the double helix model only to
have it taken away from her. science is such a competitive
sport…she later committed suicide.

seems like maybe it’s more fun to claim you were frying on acid than that you stole the thing for which you were given a Nobel prize…

On Jun 11, 2005, at 5:43 AM, Sjonnygee . wrote:

You can learn a lot on this site , from the banal to the fascinating but …………….. Francis Crick was instumental in the Operation Julie bust ?!?!!!!!!!!!!!! – I don’t read mein kampf (sorry , the mail) so I missed that article – Surreal !!!

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd Crick on LSD
>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:16:29 EDT
>
>
>                   Copyright 2004 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
>                             Mail on Sunday (London)
>
>                                  August 8, 2004
>
>SECTION: FB; Pg. 44; Pg. 45
>
>LENGTH: 758 words
>
>HEADLINE: Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the
>secret
>of life
>
>BYLINE: ALUN REES
>
>BODY:
>
>
>     FRANCIS CRICK, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was
>under
>the influence of LSD when he first deduced the double-helix structure of DNA
>nearly 50 years ago.
>
>     The abrasive and unorthodox Crick and his brilliant American co-researcher
>James Watson famously celebrated their eureka moment in March 1953 by running
>from the now legendary Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge to the nearby Eagle
>pub, where they announced over pints of bitter that they had discovered the
>secret of life.
>
>     Crick, who died ten days ago, aged 88, later told a fellow scientist that
>he
>often used small doses of LSD then an experimental drug used in psychotherapy
>to
>boost his powers of thought. He said it was LSD, not the Eagle’s warm beer,
>that
>helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, the discovery that won him the
>Nobel
>Prize.
>
>     Despite his Establishment image, Crick was a devotee of novelist Aldous
>Huxley, whose accounts of his experiments with LSD and another hallucinogen,
>mescaline, in the short stories The Doors Of Perception and Heaven And Hell
>became cult texts for the hippies of the Sixties and Seventies. In the late
>Sixties, Crick was a founder member of Soma, a legalise-cannabis group named
>after the drug in Huxley’s novel Brave New World. He even put his name to a
>famous letter to The Times in 1967 calling for a reform in the drugs laws.
>
>     It was through his membership of Soma that Crick inadvertently became the
>inspiration for the biggest LSD manufacturing conspiracy-the world has ever
>seen
>the multimillion-pound drug factory in a remote farmhouse inWales that was
>smashed by the Operation Julie raids of the late Seventies.
>
>     Crick’s involvement with the gang was fleeting but crucial. The revered
>scientist had been invited to the Cambridge home of freewheeling American
>writer
>David Solomon a friend of hippie LSD guru Timothy Leary who had come to
>Britain
>in 1967 on a quest to discover a method for manufacturing pure THC, the active
>ingredient of cannabis.
>
>     It was Crick’s presence in Solomon’s social circle that attracted a
>brilliant young biochemist, Richard Kemp, who soon became a convert to the
>attractions of both cannabis and LSD. Kemp was recruited to the THC project in
>1968, but soon afterwards devised the world’s first foolproof method of
>producing cheap, pure LSD. Solomon and Kemp went into business, manufacturing
>’acid’ in a succession of rented houses before setting up their laboratory in
>a
>cottage on a hillside near Tregaron, Carmarthenshire, in 1973. It is estimated
>that Kemp manufactured drugs worth Pounds 2.5million an astonishing amount in
>the Seventies before police stormed the building in 1977 and seized enough
>pure
>LSD and its constituent chemicals to make two million LSD ‘tabs’.
>
>     The arrest and conviction of Solomon, Kemp and a string of co-conspirators
>dominated the headlines for months. I was covering the case as a reporter at
>the
>time and it was then that I met Kemp’s close friend, Garrod Harker, whose home
>had been raided by police but who had not been arrested. Harker told me that
>Kemp and his girlfriend Christine Bott by then in jail were hippie idealists
>who
>were completely uninterested in the money they were making.
>
>     They gave away thousands to pet causes such as the Glastonbury pop
>festival
>and the drugs charity Release.
>
>     ‘They have a philosophy,’ Harker told me at the time. ‘They believe
>industrial society will collapse when the oil runs out and that the answer is
>to
>change people’s mindsets using acid. They believe LSD can help people to see
>that a return to a natural society based on self-sufficiency is the only way
>to
>save themselves.
>
>     ‘Dick Kemp told me he met Francis Crick at Cambridge. Crick had told him
>that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to
>liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new
>ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.
>
>     ‘It was clear that Dick Kemp was highly impressed and probably bowled over
>by what Crick had told him. He told me that if a man like Crick, who had gone
>to
>the heart of human existence, had used LSD, then it was worth using. Crick was
>certainly Dick Kemp’s inspiration.’ Shortly afterwards I visited Crick at his
>home, Golden Helix, in Cambridge.
>
>     He listened with rapt, amused attention to what I told him about the role
>of
>LSD in his Nobel Prize-winning discovery. He gave no intimation of surprise.
>
>     When I had finished, he said: ‘Print a word of it and I’ll sue.’
>
>LOAD-DATE: August 10, 2004
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
Date: June 11, 2005 at 11:51:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>From: admin@ethnogarden.com
>To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
>Subject: Ethnogarden botanicals June Update
>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:02 +0100
>
>Greetings Folks,
>
>A quick update for your regarding plant season and the release and availability of new products.
>
>Coming shortly.
>
>We will have a very nice strain of Psychotria viridis dried leaves and our Ayahuasca herbs will be coming down in price to the customer.
>
>New products
>
>Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract
>We have finally released our Tabernanthe iboga pure alkaloid extract containing 90% Ibogaine and 10% Tabernathine and ibogaine!
>This material is available on site now and ready for shipment. Unfortunately we were not able to keep the cost down as much as we would have like however it is still more reasonably priced the Ibogaine hcl and is offered @ $325 Canadian dollars per g with the same activity as hcl. We are glad to be able to offer this finally after 2-3 years of development on refinement.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_80/proid_189
>
>
>Chinese topical errection stone.
>”Just as the name says” A topical Viagra.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_86/proid_281
>
>
>Pocket vaporizers.
>Very nifty little gadgets which work amazing.
>Please view further information here.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_85/proid_282/
>
>Live plants.
>Salvia divinroum Luna clones are now available.
>http://www.ethnogarden.com/cart/index.pl/catid_88/proid_283
>Beautiful plants established with several leaves.
>
>Specials.
>
>Rivea corymbosa seeds
>Kava 70% Kavalkatone extract tar
>
>You may find all our specials available here!
>
>
>We will also have a new grafting stock available to customers for speeding up growth of Peyote shortly.
>Pereskiopsis spathulata are optimal and very cost effective for grafting stock.
>
>Banisteriopsis caapi and Sceletium plants will also be available shortly for shipment.
>
>Unfortunately our Diploptereys plant has not produced as we would have liked. We are continuing to work with this plant to establish cuttings for sale however do not have any as of yet.
>
>We will also offer to past customers and forum members 250ml Sassafras oil for $350
>Please contact us directly if you are interested in this or any other refined materials.
>
>Love light and pleasant vibrations.
>
>The Ethnogarden Crew!
>
>
>
>Jason Callan
>Ethnogarden Botanicals
>President and Founding Director.
>TEL:(01)705-322-6614
>FAX:(01)705-322-6615
>www.ethnogarden.com
>admin@ethnogarden.com

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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:OT Life Rocks, Turn iit up
Date: June 11, 2005 at 9:34:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Help, I’m being held against my will in the most beautiful place I have come across so far. I used to think that southern people were the only people with hospitality. That’s bullshit. I have met some way cool people in Vermont. I don’t want to leave. Now I’m being forced to go to Maine and sit on the beach with a doobie so as to contemplate better. Probably have to play some blues too. Boy, this doesn’t suck. YEEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAA Rock on with yo bad self Jenkins.             Randy     PS I feel like Ibogaine has given me a new life. I know it has.

—–Original Message—–
From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:15:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants

Steve-
I’m glad you feel better, whether it’s on Buprenorphine (suboxone or
subutex?) or through an ibogaine treatment. When it comes to the
point where you get sick of being on the bupe, there’s always an
alternative, and you can aways get off of it. It lasts longer in your
system than methadone, however, so be aware that, though it helps
considerably (especially the suboxone, with the naloxone opiate
block), it still is no picnic detoxing from it. I went really fast,
and it was not as painful as when I jumped off of the methadone clinic
at 120mgs, but it still sucks. It all sucks.
Keep posting, and let me know how it’s working for you. Although it’s
very tempting to go up on as high a dose as possible, I managed to
level out on twenty, and it held me well, but it took weeks of minor
detox symptoms to get there. I didn’t want to mega dose it.
GOOD FOR YOU getting off of those hydrocodones, etc. There’s a little
cliche in the rooms of NA along the lines of “Progress, not
perfection.” If you aren’t ready to do something like ibogaine, and
if you have doubts as many as yours, it’s better this way for you.
And as previously stated, you can always change your mind.
As for the bupe not being as addictive as the methadone, I don’t know
about that. It lasts longer, and they often don’t fill you in on that
little nugget of info before you start taking it. Also, if you smoke,
make sure you don’t smoke for at least 15-20 minutes prior to taking
your bupe, if it’s sublingual. Smoking makes the vessels and
corpusals contract, and you won’t get the full effect of the medicine
through your mucal membrane.
Love and serenity being sent your way, and stay on the list. Keep
asking questions. Relax and feel good about yourself for a hard
choice weighed and made, and enjoy the newness and less stressful
protocal that goes with the bupe.
Love
tink

On 6/11/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hello everybody I feel like that I have cheated on everybody on this site,
> but at the same time it seems to me that mostly evrybody here is just
> cheering for someoene to get better. I sat and read for almost a year and
> posted some. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that I read there
> post and most of all the people that gave me advice, and even those that
> gave me some hard love.
>
> Vector and I think Albert but it made me realize that I issues to deal with.
> The reason for my post is that I could never get myself the courage to do
> Ibogaine. I found a chat line like this on bupe and i became interested in
> it. Just like the Ibogaine a mix of good post with a mix of wierd ones. The
> drug seemed safe and from my info and the people that I talked to it has
> been easy to taper off. I am on my 5th day and I feel great.
>
> I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have absoulutely no
> cravings and no w/d at all. I know that you should not have that if you are
> a candidate because it is similar to methadone as it is used as a maintenace
> drug. but it is much different not near as addictive as methaone. But my
> doc says that he has a 80% rate of taperinig with very little w/d’s. I am
> already tapering with no problems. I actually forget to take my pill. He
> actually started me out doing the least amount to break an addiction. I was
> suprised that the docs today dont even know about Ibogaine. It seems like
> somwhere they would learn about this. Anyway I felt like that I cheated
> everyone here.
>
> I was within a week to doing Ibogaine. I really feel great today. I thought
> that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me but I dont. My only
> adverse reacions that seem like they are common is that I will be tired for
> the firt two weeks and I have twitches from the way that it works against
> the neutrons. I asked for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up
> he said that they will go away and he asked me to go a week and we will
> see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people on the
> chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they used valium to
> sleep so I got some and that helped to make this even better. Love to
> everyone here. I am not saying that bupe is better than Ibogaine and I might
> need it still one day. But the way I feel right now I cant see how. Love
> everyone, Steve
> ————– Original message ————–
>
> > Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
> > just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
> > lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
> > (if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
> > any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
> > was faster working than 5-HTp.
> > I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
> > do with $$ at this stage…..
> > So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
> > experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
> > Cheers heaps
> > Kirsty
> >
> > —- Original Message —-
> > From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
> > antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
> > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000
> >
> > >
> > >Interesting link..
> > >
> > >It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
> > >l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
> > >together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
> > >other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!
> > >
> > >Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
> > >L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
> > >So supplementing L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine will also work in
> > >boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
> > >posted earlier.
> > >
> > >Boris
> > >
> > >—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” wrote:
> > >> http://www.neuroreplete.com/
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
> > >ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
> > >my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
> > >have to say that the amino acids combined with
> > >>
> > >a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
> > >in harmony
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
> > >disease.
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >Good night,
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >Claudia
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> > >—=[\
> > >>
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >\]=——————————————————————
> > >—=[/
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> > >—=[\
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> \]=—————————————————————-
> > >—–=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Another beautiful day in paradise
Date: June 11, 2005 at 9:22:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So we drive into “downtown” Bristol, VT, park the car with teh NY
plates in front of what looks like a closed business, and walk to get
cigarettes and some food.  When we get back to the car, about a half
an hour later, there’s this white piece of Nickelodeon paper with
somethin scrawled on it in a child-like hand, in brighth red marker
that says:

OUT OF STATERS:
_______________

DO not park your non-redneck vehicle in my dads parking spot.
otherwise we will tow it with our lawn mower.
love always
-non ya-

Nothing like a little northern hospitality!
love
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 11, 2005 at 9:15:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve-
I’m glad you feel better, whether it’s on Buprenorphine (suboxone or
subutex?) or through an ibogaine treatment.  When it comes to the
point where you get sick of being on the bupe, there’s always an
alternative, and you can aways get off of it.  It lasts longer in your
system than methadone, however, so be aware that, though it helps
considerably (especially the suboxone, with the naloxone opiate
block), it still is no picnic detoxing from it.  I went really fast,
and it was not as painful as when I jumped off of the methadone clinic
at 120mgs, but it still sucks.  It all sucks.
Keep posting, and let me know how it’s working for you.  Although it’s
very tempting to go up on as high a dose as possible, I managed to
level out on twenty, and it held me well, but it took weeks of minor
detox symptoms to get there. I didn’t want to mega dose it.
GOOD FOR YOU getting off of those hydrocodones, etc.  There’s a little
cliche in the rooms of NA along the lines of “Progress, not
perfection.”  If you aren’t ready to do something like ibogaine, and
if you have doubts as many as yours, it’s better this way for you.
And as previously stated, you can always change your mind.
As for the bupe not being as addictive as the methadone, I don’t know
about that.  It lasts longer, and they often don’t fill you in on that
little nugget of info before you start taking it.  Also, if you smoke,
make sure you don’t smoke for at least 15-20 minutes prior to taking
your bupe, if it’s sublingual.  Smoking makes the vessels and
corpusals contract, and you won’t get the full effect of the medicine
through your mucal membrane.
Love and serenity being sent your way, and stay on the list.  Keep
asking questions.  Relax and feel good about yourself for a hard
choice weighed and made, and enjoy the newness and less stressful
protocal that goes with the bupe.
Love
tink

On 6/11/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:

Hello everybody I feel like that I have cheated on everybody on this site,
but at the same time it seems to me that mostly evrybody here is just
cheering for someoene to get better. I sat and read for almost a year and
posted some. I just wanted  to say thank you to everyone that I read there
post and most of all the people that gave me advice, and even those that
gave me some hard love.

Vector and I think Albert but it made me realize that I issues to deal with.
The reason for my post is that I could never get myself the courage to do
Ibogaine. I found a chat line like this on bupe and i became interested in
it. Just like the Ibogaine a mix of good post with a mix of wierd ones. The
drug seemed safe and from my info and the people that I talked to it has
been easy to taper off. I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have absoulutely no
cravings and no w/d at all. I know that you should not have that if you are
a candidate because it is similar to methadone as it is used as a maintenace
drug. but it is much different not near as addictive as methaone.  But my
doc says that he has a 80% rate of  taperinig with very little w/d’s. I am
already tapering with no problems. I actually forget to take my pill. He
actually started me out doing the least amount to break an addiction. I was
suprised that the docs today dont even know about Ibogaine. It seems like
somwhere they would learn about this. Anyway I felt like that I cheated
everyone here.

I was within a week to doing Ibogaine. I really feel great today. I thought
that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me but I dont. My only
adverse reacions that seem like they are common is that I will be tired for
the firt two weeks and I have twitches from the way that it works against
the neutrons. I asked for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up
he said that they will  go away and  he asked me to go a week and we will
see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people on  the
chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they used valium to
sleep so I got some and that helped to make this even better. Love to
everyone here. I am not saying that bupe is better than Ibogaine and I might
need it still one day. But the way I feel right now I cant see how. Love
everyone, Steve
————– Original message ————–

Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
(if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
was faster working than 5-HTp.
I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
do with $$ at this stage…..
So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
Cheers heaps
Kirsty

—- Original Message —-
From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000

Interesting link..

It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!

Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
So supplementing L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine will also work in
boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
posted earlier.

Boris

—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” wrote:
http://www.neuroreplete.com/

My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
have to say that the amino acids combined with

a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
in harmony

Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
disease.

Good night,

Claudia

/]=——————————————————————
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Amazing !
Date: June 11, 2005 at 8:43:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You can learn a lot on this site , from the banal to the fascinating but …………….. Francis Crick was instumental in the Operation Julie bust ?!?!!!!!!!!!!!! – I don’t read mein kampf (sorry , the mail) so I missed that article – Surreal !!!

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd Crick on LSD
>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:16:29 EDT
>
>
>                   Copyright 2004 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
>                             Mail on Sunday (London)
>
>                                  August 8, 2004
>
>SECTION: FB; Pg. 44; Pg. 45
>
>LENGTH: 758 words
>
>HEADLINE: Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the
>secret
>of life
>
>BYLINE: ALUN REES
>
>BODY:
>
>
>     FRANCIS CRICK, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was
>under
>the influence of LSD when he first deduced the double-helix structure of DNA
>nearly 50 years ago.
>
>     The abrasive and unorthodox Crick and his brilliant American co-researcher
>James Watson famously celebrated their eureka moment in March 1953 by running
>from the now legendary Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge to the nearby Eagle
>pub, where they announced over pints of bitter that they had discovered the
>secret of life.
>
>     Crick, who died ten days ago, aged 88, later told a fellow scientist that
>he
>often used small doses of LSD then an experimental drug used in psychotherapy
>to
>boost his powers of thought. He said it was LSD, not the Eagle’s warm beer,
>that
>helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, the discovery that won him the
>Nobel
>Prize.
>
>     Despite his Establishment image, Crick was a devotee of novelist Aldous
>Huxley, whose accounts of his experiments with LSD and another hallucinogen,
>mescaline, in the short stories The Doors Of Perception and Heaven And Hell
>became cult texts for the hippies of the Sixties and Seventies. In the late
>Sixties, Crick was a founder member of Soma, a legalise-cannabis group named
>after the drug in Huxley’s novel Brave New World. He even put his name to a
>famous letter to The Times in 1967 calling for a reform in the drugs laws.
>
>     It was through his membership of Soma that Crick inadvertently became the
>inspiration for the biggest LSD manufacturing conspiracy-the world has ever
>seen
>the multimillion-pound drug factory in a remote farmhouse inWales that was
>smashed by the Operation Julie raids of the late Seventies.
>
>     Crick’s involvement with the gang was fleeting but crucial. The revered
>scientist had been invited to the Cambridge home of freewheeling American
>writer
>David Solomon a friend of hippie LSD guru Timothy Leary who had come to
>Britain
>in 1967 on a quest to discover a method for manufacturing pure THC, the active
>ingredient of cannabis.
>
>     It was Crick’s presence in Solomon’s social circle that attracted a
>brilliant young biochemist, Richard Kemp, who soon became a convert to the
>attractions of both cannabis and LSD. Kemp was recruited to the THC project in
>1968, but soon afterwards devised the world’s first foolproof method of
>producing cheap, pure LSD. Solomon and Kemp went into business, manufacturing
>’acid’ in a succession of rented houses before setting up their laboratory in
>a
>cottage on a hillside near Tregaron, Carmarthenshire, in 1973. It is estimated
>that Kemp manufactured drugs worth Pounds 2.5million an astonishing amount in
>the Seventies before police stormed the building in 1977 and seized enough
>pure
>LSD and its constituent chemicals to make two million LSD ‘tabs’.
>
>     The arrest and conviction of Solomon, Kemp and a string of co-conspirators
>dominated the headlines for months. I was covering the case as a reporter at
>the
>time and it was then that I met Kemp’s close friend, Garrod Harker, whose home
>had been raided by police but who had not been arrested. Harker told me that
>Kemp and his girlfriend Christine Bott by then in jail were hippie idealists
>who
>were completely uninterested in the money they were making.
>
>     They gave away thousands to pet causes such as the Glastonbury pop
>festival
>and the drugs charity Release.
>
>     ‘They have a philosophy,’ Harker told me at the time. ‘They believe
>industrial society will collapse when the oil runs out and that the answer is
>to
>change people’s mindsets using acid. They believe LSD can help people to see
>that a return to a natural society based on self-sufficiency is the only way
>to
>save themselves.
>
>     ‘Dick Kemp told me he met Francis Crick at Cambridge. Crick had told him
>that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to
>liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new
>ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.
>
>     ‘It was clear that Dick Kemp was highly impressed and probably bowled over
>by what Crick had told him. He told me that if a man like Crick, who had gone
>to
>the heart of human existence, had used LSD, then it was worth using. Crick was
>certainly Dick Kemp’s inspiration.’ Shortly afterwards I visited Crick at his
>home, Golden Helix, in Cambridge.
>
>     He listened with rapt, amused attention to what I told him about the role
>of
>LSD in his Nobel Prize-winning discovery. He gave no intimation of surprise.
>
>     When I had finished, he said: ‘Print a word of it and I’ll sue.’
>
>LOAD-DATE: August 10, 2004
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 11, 2005 at 8:35:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve, nobody that I know thinks that ibogaine is the only way. I used to. I came out of my treatment an extremist pretty much. I just want people to be happy in their own skin, smile when they get the chance, and rock hard whenever possible. You sound good bro, so I’m glad for you. You did your own research and made your choice. I think it is a good thing that you are here. Ibogaine is not for everybody, but thank God it was for me.            Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:32:44 +0000
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants

Hello everybody I feel like that I have cheated on everybody on this site, but at the same time it seems to me that mostly evrybody here is just cheering for someoene to get better. I sat and read for almost a year and posted some. I just wanted  to say thank you to everyone that I read there post and most of all the people that gave me advice, and even those that gave me some hard love.

Vector and I think Albert but it made me realize that I issues to deal with. The reason for my post is that I could never get myself the courage to do Ibogaine. I found a chat line like this on bupe and i became interested in it. Just like the Ibogaine a mix of good post with a mix of wierd ones. The drug seemed safe and from my info and the people that I talked to it has been easy to taper off. I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all. I know that you should not have that if you are a candidate because it is similar to methadone as it is used as a maintenace drug. but it is much different not near as addictive as methaone.  But my  doc says that he has a 80% rate of  taperinig with very little w/d’s. I am already tapering with no problems. I actually forget to take my pill. He actually started me out doing the least amount to break an addiction. I was suprised that the docs today dont even know about Ibogaine. It seems like somwhere they would learn about this. Anyway I felt like that I cheated everyone here.

I was within a week to doing Ibogaine. I really feel great today. I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem like they are common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said that they will  go away and  he asked me to go a week and we will see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people on  the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this even better. Love to everyone here. I am not saying that bupe is better than Ibogaine and I might need it still one day. But the way I feel right now I cant see how. Love everyone, Steve
————– Original message ————–

> Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
> just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
> lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
> (if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
> any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
> was faster working than 5-HTp.
> I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
> do with $$ at this stage…..
> So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
> experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
> Cheers heaps
> Kirsty
>
> —- Original Message —-
> From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
> antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000
>
> >
> >Interesting link..
> >
> >It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
> >l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
> >together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
> >other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!
> >
> >Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
> >L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
> >So supplementing L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine will also work in
> >boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
> >posted earlier.
> >
> >Boris
> >
> >—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” wrote:
> >> http://www.neuroreplete.com/
> >>
> >
> >>
> >My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
> >ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
> >my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
> >have to say that the amino acids combined with
> >>
> >a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
> >in harmony
> >>
> >
> >>
> >Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
> >disease.
> >>
> >
> >>
> >Good night,
> >>
> >
> >>
> >Claudia
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> >—=[\
> >>
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >
> >\]=——————————————————————
> >—=[/
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> >—=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————-
> >—–=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 11, 2005 at 4:32:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everybody I feel like that I have cheated on everybody on this site, but at the same time it seems to me that mostly evrybody here is just cheering for someoene to get better. I sat and read for almost a year and posted some. I just wanted  to say thank you to everyone that I read there post and most of all the people that gave me advice, and even those that gave me some hard love.

Vector and I think Albert but it made me realize that I issues to deal with. The reason for my post is that I could never get myself the courage to do Ibogaine. I found a chat line like this on bupe and i became interested in it. Just like the Ibogaine a mix of good post with a mix of wierd ones. The drug seemed safe and from my info and the people that I talked to it has been easy to taper off. I am on my 5th day and I feel great.

I feel like myself again. My sleep is wonderful. I have absoulutely no cravings and no w/d at all. I know that you should not have that if you are a candidate because it is similar to methadone as it is used as a maintenace drug. but it is much different not near as addictive as methaone.  But my  doc says that he has a 80% rate of  taperinig with very little w/d’s. I am already tapering with no problems. I actually forget to take my pill. He actually started me out doing the least amount to break an addiction. I was suprised that the docs today dont even know about Ibogaine. It seems like somwhere they would learn about this. Anyway I felt like that I cheated everyone here.

I was within a week to doing Ibogaine. I really feel great today. I thought that I would miss the euphoria that hydrocodone gave me but I dont. My only adverse reacions that seem like they are common is that I will be tired for the firt two weeks and I have twitches from the way that it works against the neutrons. I asked for something to sleep because the twitches keep me up he said that they will  go away and  he asked me to go a week and we will see. I have to work so I have to sleep so I talked to some people on  the chat line that had tapered perfect ly and they said they used valium to sleep so I got some and that helped to make this even better. Love to everyone here. I am not saying that bupe is better than Ibogaine and I might need it still one day. But the way I feel right now I cant see how. Love everyone, Steve
————– Original message ————–

> Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
> just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
> lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
> (if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
> any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
> was faster working than 5-HTp.
> I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
> do with $$ at this stage…..
> So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
> experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
> Cheers heaps
> Kirsty
>
> —- Original Message —-
> From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
> antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000
>
> >
> >Interesting link..
> >
> >It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
> >l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
> >together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
> >other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!
> >
> >Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
> >L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
> >So supplementing L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine will also work in
> >boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
> >posted earlier.
> >
> >Boris
> >
> >—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” wrote:
> >> http://www.neuroreplete.com/
> >>
> >
> >>
> >My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
> >ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
> >my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
> >have to say that the amino acids combined with
> >>
> >a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
> >in harmony
> >>
> >
> >>
> >Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
> >disease.
> >>
> >
> >>
> >Good night,
> >>
> >
> >>
> >Claudia
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> >—=[\
> >>
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >
> >\]=——————————————————————
> >—=[/
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=——————————————————————
> >—=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————-
> >—–=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: captkirk@free.net.nz
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: OT anti-depressants
Date: June 10, 2005 at 8:37:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi to the knowledgeable ones,
just being lazy, or have been too busy to look up and read stuff
lately, but anyway, I’m down to half a a/d pill and was thinking of
(if it’s required) replacing with L-tryptophan.
any advice or other recommendations? someone mentioned that L-trypt
was faster working than 5-HTp.
I am thinking my depression is hormonal, which I’m working on, all to
do with $$ at this stage…..
So, anyyyyywayyyyyy, heh, I like hearing from people who have had
experience with this stuff…..or understand it all better….
Cheers heaps
Kirsty

—- Original Message —-
From: bleshins@bigpond.net.au
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid
antidepresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:40:18 +1000

Interesting link..

It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with
l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted
together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the
other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!

Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to
L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
So supplementing L-phenylalanine  or L-tyrosine will also work in
boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I
posted earlier.

Boris

—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” <ecbl@cox.net> wrote:
http://www.neuroreplete.com/

My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years
ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys
my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I
have to say that the amino acids combined with

a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be
in harmony

Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband
disease.

Good night,

Claudia

/]=——————————————————————
—=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=——————————————————————
—=[/

/]=——————————————————————
—=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=—————————————————————-
—–=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid anti depresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: June 10, 2005 at 12:37:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What amino acids should I take when dealing with an opiod detox

————– Original message ————–

>
> In a message dated 6/10/05 12:21:19 AM, ecbl@cox.net writes:
>
> >My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years ago.
> >Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys my husband
> >Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I have to say that
> >the amino acids combined with
> >
> >a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be in
> >harmony
>
> Hi Claudia,
>
> Would love to have your husband describe his experience when he returns.
>
> Howard
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid anti depresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: June 10, 2005 at 12:05:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/10/05 12:21:19 AM, ecbl@cox.net writes:

My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years ago.
Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys my husband
Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I have to say that
the amino acids combined with

a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be in
harmony

Hi Claudia,

Would love to have your husband describe his experience when he returns.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Three Days To Lift Off
Date: June 10, 2005 at 11:54:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you so much for your wonderful response.  Thanks for the love and the
angels on my pillow and I send that back to you as well.

Keep us informed.

Howard

In a message dated 6/10/05 1:57:28 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

DIDN’T MEAN TO FREAK YOU OUT!!!  Description of the days before the
treatment- I’m doing FANTASTICally right now, and have almost
recouped.  Still a little wobbly, but eating my fruits and yogurt, and
vitamins.  It was entitled “3 days to lift off”- just a moment from
the crap I went through before I went under. And over, and inside and
out.

All is well, and I apologise if that’s the impression I gave. I’ll be
more clear in the future.
I haven’t felt this good in a while, and have some decent aftercare in
place while I tweak it into a more serious shape.

Thank you for your concern.  All of you. It’s made a huge difference
having all of this support.

Love and angels on your pillows,

tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Three Days To Lift Off
Date: June 10, 2005 at 1:57:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DIDN’T MEAN TO FREAK YOU OUT!!!  Description of the days before the
treatment- I’m doing FANTASTICally right now, and have almost
recouped.  Still a little wobbly, but eating my fruits and yogurt, and
vitamins.  It was entitled “3 days to lift off”- just a moment from
the crap I went through before I went under. And over, and inside and
out.
All is well, and I apologise if that’s the impression I gave. I’ll be
more clear in the future.
I haven’t felt this good in a while, and have some decent aftercare in
place while I tweak it into a more serious shape.
Thank you for your concern.  All of you. It’s made a huge difference
having all of this support.
Love and angels on your pillows,
tink

On 6/9/05, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 6/8/05 7:14:51 PM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

I sit in constant leg twitch mode, cell in one hand, cigarette in
other, willing the phone to ring.  It won’t.  It never does when you
really really really want it, for some reason.  I pace back and forth
in the hotel room, wearing a track in the cheap carpet, throwing the
phone on the bed, sitting down, flipping through the channels, pick up
the phone, pace.  Fucking people in small towns make lousy drug
dealers.
<snip>
I feel like the worse person in the history of people, buying from
this kid, but I have three days to go, and no choice, if I want to get
through school and work.  I sigh and fork out $90 per freakin’ pill,
and pay $15 for a ten pack of rigs.

I’m a bit confused I thought you indicated just a while ago you had just been
retreated.  But, never mind on that.  I hope you are alive.

In a message dated 6/7/05 1:45:31 PM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

I have finally managed to semi ground myself, and am living on mangos
and youghurt right now, witha little V8 thrown in for variety.  I have
just experienced the most incredible treatment ever!!! And it didn’t
cost me a brain donation(as per mash).  I have much sleep to catch up
on, and little swimming thingies in front of my eyes still, but it’s
all gravy!!
IBOGAINE ROCKS!!!!back after my nexty snoozey nap and nibble of fruit.

You have gone from a few mgs of buprenorphine to I don’t know what of IV
oxycontin.  I should have tried to contact you immediately but, was just tired
from having to move some furniture.  So how much oxycontin did you shoot?  And,
just curious, as to why you chose to shoot it after taking oral opioids for so
long? Are you still with us or are you dead.  If you are dead I anticipate I
will not receive an answer.  If you are dead and I receive an answer I will be
amazed.  Take care. Explanations appreciated.

Howard

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid anti depresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: June 10, 2005 at 12:40:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Interesting link..

It talk about boosting serotonin with 5htp and boosting dopamine with l-dopa and that both serotonin and dopamine need to be boosted together, as boosting either one will result in the depletion of the other. I didn’t know that, thanks for the info!

Just wanted to add that L-phenylalanine is the pre-cursor to L-tyrosine. And l-tyrosine is the precursor to L-dopa.
So supplementing L-phenylalanine  or L-tyrosine will also work in boosting dopamine (and the other catecholamines), as per links I posted earlier.

Boris

—- “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” <ecbl@cox.net> wrote:
http://www.neuroreplete.com/

My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I have to say that the amino acids combined with

a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be in harmony

Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband disease.

Good night,

Claudia

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From: “E. Claudia Bilbao-Love” <ecbl@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:Neurotransmitters depletion – Avoid anti depresants. Feed the brain with the good staff.
Date: June 10, 2005 at 12:20:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.neuroreplete.com/

My name is Claudia I’ve been doing amino acid therapy since 2 years ago. Check the neuroreplete web site has a lot of information. Guys my husband Pat is in Mexico Tijuana right now in the vision stage. I have to say that the amino acids combined with
a healthy life style, healing chacras w/ meditation is my way to be in harmony

Thanks so much for your thoughts. It help me to understand my husband disease.

Good night,

Claudia

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd Crick on LSD
Date: June 10, 2005 at 12:16:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Copyright 2004 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
Mail on Sunday (London)

August 8, 2004

SECTION: FB; Pg. 44; Pg. 45

LENGTH: 758 words

HEADLINE: Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD when he discovered the
secret
of life

BYLINE: ALUN REES

BODY:

FRANCIS CRICK, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was
under
the influence of LSD when he first deduced the double-helix structure of DNA
nearly 50 years ago.

The abrasive and unorthodox Crick and his brilliant American co-researcher
James Watson famously celebrated their eureka moment in March 1953 by running
from the now legendary Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge to the nearby Eagle
pub, where they announced over pints of bitter that they had discovered the
secret of life.

Crick, who died ten days ago, aged 88, later told a fellow scientist that
he
often used small doses of LSD then an experimental drug used in psychotherapy
to
boost his powers of thought. He said it was LSD, not the Eagle’s warm beer,
that
helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, the discovery that won him the
Nobel
Prize.

Despite his Establishment image, Crick was a devotee of novelist Aldous
Huxley, whose accounts of his experiments with LSD and another hallucinogen,
mescaline, in the short stories The Doors Of Perception and Heaven And Hell
became cult texts for the hippies of the Sixties and Seventies. In the late
Sixties, Crick was a founder member of Soma, a legalise-cannabis group named
after the drug in Huxley’s novel Brave New World. He even put his name to a
famous letter to The Times in 1967 calling for a reform in the drugs laws.

It was through his membership of Soma that Crick inadvertently became the
inspiration for the biggest LSD manufacturing conspiracy-the world has ever
seen
the multimillion-pound drug factory in a remote farmhouse inWales that was
smashed by the Operation Julie raids of the late Seventies.

Crick’s involvement with the gang was fleeting but crucial. The revered
scientist had been invited to the Cambridge home of freewheeling American
writer
David Solomon a friend of hippie LSD guru Timothy Leary who had come to
Britain
in 1967 on a quest to discover a method for manufacturing pure THC, the active
ingredient of cannabis.

It was Crick’s presence in Solomon’s social circle that attracted a
brilliant young biochemist, Richard Kemp, who soon became a convert to the
attractions of both cannabis and LSD. Kemp was recruited to the THC project in
1968, but soon afterwards devised the world’s first foolproof method of
producing cheap, pure LSD. Solomon and Kemp went into business, manufacturing
‘acid’ in a succession of rented houses before setting up their laboratory in
a
cottage on a hillside near Tregaron, Carmarthenshire, in 1973. It is estimated
that Kemp manufactured drugs worth Pounds 2.5million an astonishing amount in
the Seventies before police stormed the building in 1977 and seized enough
pure
LSD and its constituent chemicals to make two million LSD ‘tabs’.

The arrest and conviction of Solomon, Kemp and a string of co-conspirators
dominated the headlines for months. I was covering the case as a reporter at
the
time and it was then that I met Kemp’s close friend, Garrod Harker, whose home
had been raided by police but who had not been arrested. Harker told me that
Kemp and his girlfriend Christine Bott by then in jail were hippie idealists
who
were completely uninterested in the money they were making.

They gave away thousands to pet causes such as the Glastonbury pop
festival
and the drugs charity Release.

‘They have a philosophy,’ Harker told me at the time. ‘They believe
industrial society will collapse when the oil runs out and that the answer is
to
change people’s mindsets using acid. They believe LSD can help people to see
that a return to a natural society based on self-sufficiency is the only way
to
save themselves.

‘Dick Kemp told me he met Francis Crick at Cambridge. Crick had told him
that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to
liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new
ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.

‘It was clear that Dick Kemp was highly impressed and probably bowled over
by what Crick had told him. He told me that if a man like Crick, who had gone
to
the heart of human existence, had used LSD, then it was worth using. Crick was
certainly Dick Kemp’s inspiration.’ Shortly afterwards I visited Crick at his
home, Golden Helix, in Cambridge.

He listened with rapt, amused attention to what I told him about the role
of
LSD in his Nobel Prize-winning discovery. He gave no intimation of surprise.

When I had finished, he said: ‘Print a word of it and I’ll sue.’

LOAD-DATE: August 10, 2004

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 9, 2005 at 9:51:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com> wrote:
Tryptophan has not been banned in the US since 1994.

I stand corrected, I guess Australia is behind the times. Here even 5HTP is banned everywhere except for Queensland. And the shops in Queensland won’t even mailorder  it outside Queensland, so we have to order it from overseas.

Boris

More info on tryptophan from Quackwatch:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/trypto.html

There is no magic bullet amino acid to help addiction or detox.   The problem with addicts isn’t that they don’t consume enough supplements; the problem is that they don’t consume enough food.

—–Original Message—–

From: Boris Leshinsky [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]

Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 9:58 AM

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid

StoP :

http://www.decadence.co.nz/recovery.html

I was looking at this site when searching out the Amino

supplements for Mandy.

Its rather expensive, unless you live in NZ and the cost of

postage from the US makes up for the cost.

Looking at the dosages, it really won’t do much for a serious

addiction. Only 8 caps per bottle too?

Also tryptophan is illegal to sell in the US and in Australia,

not sure if its legal to order from overseas. This is why 5HTP is

used as a substitute. 5htp is a precursor to tryptophan, which is

a precursor to serotonin. Not sure what the correct tryptophan

dosage should be, but the other (at least the”brainfood” once)

dosages seem miniscule. If the dosage for 5htp and tryptophan is

the same, there is enough in those pills for a relaxing/uplifting

effect. The herbs and B vitamins would help too.

Also, for meth, from what I’ve read L-Phenylaline or L-Tyrosine

would be more useful, as they restore Dopamine. The stuff in StoP

would be more useful for detoxing from too many exctacy pills.

“StoP

Stop frying ya brain! StoP is a dietary supplement which may help

stop the cravings for Methamphetamine. Talk to qualified people

who care on the 24hr P helpline 0800 P HELPLINE

Contains: Brainfoods: Tryptophan 45mg, Glutamine 85mg, Methionine

20mg, Gotu Kola 15mg.

Healing Plants: Aloe Vera Concentrate 10mg, Garlic Concentrate

15mg, Kelp Powder 10mg

Antioxidents: Green Tea Extract 10 mg, Grape Seed Extract 2mg

Life Force: Pure NZ Deer Velvet Equivilant 10mg.

Vitamins: C 85mg, B2 10mg, B3 10mg, B5 10mg, B6 20mg, B12 10mg.

Usage: Take 2 Capsules as needed.

8 Pack of Capsules / $6 Buy Now!”

re prices on that site – its $30 (aussie or nz? $) for 30 caps of 5htp.

They do have some other interesting things there though.. kratom

for example..

A good site I found for cheap supps in http://www.bayho.com/.

For reason a lot of the amino acids are not sold anywhere I

Australia, I haven’t found them anyway.

Boris

—- Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:

I found these supplemental pills here in NZ, will find the URL again..

They’re called Stop P, basically for people who  have been going hard and

need some nurturing. They contain L Tryptophan plus loads of

other goodies.

A friend was being unknowingly doped with P which this guy (who wanted my

mates girlfriend really badly) was putting in the joints.  So he’s been

using these pills, reckons they’ve helped heaps and I must say

he’s more his

old self than he h as been in a couple of weeks.

Kirk

_____

From: Carlton B [mailto:carltonb@mindspring.com]

Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:48 p.m.

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] amino acid

If you are detoxing, you need to make sure you get your maximum nutrition.

Some detox regimens are very strict about eliminating meat and animal

products.  Vegan/vegetarian diets have to be carefully planned to avoid

neglecting the 8 essential amino acids.   The easy way to do it is with

supplements of isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine,

threonine,tryptophan and valine.   If you want to do it with food, you’ll

have to consume a lot of different food sources to get everything

you need.

As far as I know, no single amino acid is a magic bullet for detox.  I’ve

read some people saying that L-glutamine is important but there

haven’t been

any supporting studies as far as I know.

—–Original Message—–

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI

Sent: Jun 9, 2005 10:17 AM

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid

i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the

reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has

to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i

worked with a

guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of

ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day

one .i for

the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how

lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i

attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the

importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know

its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am.

when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of

discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by

12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of

the legs at

that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would

arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post

accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

_____

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo!

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virus/*http:/promotions.y

ahoo.com/n

ew_mail/static/protection.html>  Mail – Helps protect you from nasty

viruses.

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From: “Carlton B” <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 9, 2005 at 9:14:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tryptophan has not been banned in the US since 1994.

More info on tryptophan from Quackwatch:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/trypto.html

There is no magic bullet amino acid to help addiction or detox.   The problem with addicts isn’t that they don’t consume enough supplements; the problem is that they don’t consume enough food.

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris Leshinsky [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 9:58 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid

StoP :
http://www.decadence.co.nz/recovery.html

I was looking at this site when searching out the Amino
supplements for Mandy.
Its rather expensive, unless you live in NZ and the cost of
postage from the US makes up for the cost.

Looking at the dosages, it really won’t do much for a serious
addiction. Only 8 caps per bottle too?

Also tryptophan is illegal to sell in the US and in Australia,
not sure if its legal to order from overseas. This is why 5HTP is
used as a substitute. 5htp is a precursor to tryptophan, which is
a precursor to serotonin. Not sure what the correct tryptophan
dosage should be, but the other (at least the”brainfood” once)
dosages seem miniscule. If the dosage for 5htp and tryptophan is
the same, there is enough in those pills for a relaxing/uplifting
effect. The herbs and B vitamins would help too.

Also, for meth, from what I’ve read L-Phenylaline or L-Tyrosine
would be more useful, as they restore Dopamine. The stuff in StoP
would be more useful for detoxing from too many exctacy pills.

“StoP
Stop frying ya brain! StoP is a dietary supplement which may help
stop the cravings for Methamphetamine. Talk to qualified people
who care on the 24hr P helpline 0800 P HELPLINE

Contains: Brainfoods: Tryptophan 45mg, Glutamine 85mg, Methionine
20mg, Gotu Kola 15mg.
Healing Plants: Aloe Vera Concentrate 10mg, Garlic Concentrate
15mg, Kelp Powder 10mg
Antioxidents: Green Tea Extract 10 mg, Grape Seed Extract 2mg
Life Force: Pure NZ Deer Velvet Equivilant 10mg.
Vitamins: C 85mg, B2 10mg, B3 10mg, B5 10mg, B6 20mg, B12 10mg.

Usage: Take 2 Capsules as needed.

8 Pack of Capsules / $6 Buy Now!”

re prices on that site – its $30 (aussie or nz? $) for 30 caps of 5htp.

They do have some other interesting things there though.. kratom
for example..

A good site I found for cheap supps in http://www.bayho.com/.
For reason a lot of the amino acids are not sold anywhere I
Australia, I haven’t found them anyway.

Boris

—- Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
I found these supplemental pills here in NZ, will find the URL again..

They’re called Stop P, basically for people who  have been going hard and

need some nurturing. They contain L Tryptophan plus loads of
other goodies.

A friend was being unknowingly doped with P which this guy (who wanted my

mates girlfriend really badly) was putting in the joints.  So he’s been

using these pills, reckons they’ve helped heaps and I must say
he’s more his

old self than he h as been in a couple of weeks.

Kirk

_____

From: Carlton B [mailto:carltonb@mindspring.com]

Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:48 p.m.

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] amino acid

If you are detoxing, you need to make sure you get your maximum nutrition.

Some detox regimens are very strict about eliminating meat and animal

products.  Vegan/vegetarian diets have to be carefully planned to avoid

neglecting the 8 essential amino acids.   The easy way to do it is with

supplements of isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine,

threonine,tryptophan and valine.   If you want to do it with food, you’ll

have to consume a lot of different food sources to get everything
you need.

As far as I know, no single amino acid is a magic bullet for detox.  I’ve

read some people saying that L-glutamine is important but there
haven’t been

any supporting studies as far as I know.

—–Original Message—–

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI

Sent: Jun 9, 2005 10:17 AM

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid

i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the

reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has

to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i
worked with a

guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of

ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day
one .i for

the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how

lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i

attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the

importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know

its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am.

when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of

discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by

12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of
the legs at

that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would

arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post

accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

_____

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo!

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virus/*http:/promotions.y
ahoo.com/n

ew_mail/static/protection.html>  Mail – Helps protect you from nasty

viruses.

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

[%]

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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 9, 2005 at 8:58:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

StoP :
http://www.decadence.co.nz/recovery.html

I was looking at this site when searching out the Amino supplements for Mandy.
Its rather expensive, unless you live in NZ and the cost of postage from the US makes up for the cost.

Looking at the dosages, it really won’t do much for a serious addiction. Only 8 caps per bottle too?

Also tryptophan is illegal to sell in the US and in Australia, not sure if its legal to order from overseas. This is why 5HTP is used as a substitute. 5htp is a precursor to tryptophan, which is a precursor to serotonin. Not sure what the correct tryptophan dosage should be, but the other (at least the”brainfood” once) dosages seem miniscule. If the dosage for 5htp and tryptophan is the same, there is enough in those pills for a relaxing/uplifting effect. The herbs and B vitamins would help too.

Also, for meth, from what I’ve read L-Phenylaline or L-Tyrosine would be more useful, as they restore Dopamine. The stuff in StoP would be more useful for detoxing from too many exctacy pills.

“StoP
Stop frying ya brain! StoP is a dietary supplement which may help stop the cravings for Methamphetamine. Talk to qualified people who care on the 24hr P helpline 0800 P HELPLINE

Contains: Brainfoods: Tryptophan 45mg, Glutamine 85mg, Methionine 20mg, Gotu Kola 15mg.
Healing Plants: Aloe Vera Concentrate 10mg, Garlic Concentrate 15mg, Kelp Powder 10mg
Antioxidents: Green Tea Extract 10 mg, Grape Seed Extract 2mg
Life Force: Pure NZ Deer Velvet Equivilant 10mg.
Vitamins: C 85mg, B2 10mg, B3 10mg, B5 10mg, B6 20mg, B12 10mg.

Usage: Take 2 Capsules as needed.

8 Pack of Capsules / $6 Buy Now!”

re prices on that site – its $30 (aussie or nz? $) for 30 caps of 5htp.

They do have some other interesting things there though.. kratom for example..

A good site I found for cheap supps in http://www.bayho.com/.
For reason a lot of the amino acids are not sold anywhere I Australia, I haven’t found them anyway.

Boris

—- Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
I found these supplemental pills here in NZ, will find the URL again..

They’re called Stop P, basically for people who  have been going hard and

need some nurturing. They contain L Tryptophan plus loads of other goodies.

A friend was being unknowingly doped with P which this guy (who wanted my

mates girlfriend really badly) was putting in the joints.  So he’s been

using these pills, reckons they’ve helped heaps and I must say he’s more his

old self than he h as been in a couple of weeks.

Kirk

_____

From: Carlton B [mailto:carltonb@mindspring.com]

Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:48 p.m.

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] amino acid

If you are detoxing, you need to make sure you get your maximum nutrition.

Some detox regimens are very strict about eliminating meat and animal

products.  Vegan/vegetarian diets have to be carefully planned to avoid

neglecting the 8 essential amino acids.   The easy way to do it is with

supplements of isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine,

threonine,tryptophan and valine.   If you want to do it with food, you’ll

have to consume a lot of different food sources to get everything you need.

As far as I know, no single amino acid is a magic bullet for detox.  I’ve

read some people saying that L-glutamine is important but there haven’t been

any supporting studies as far as I know.

—–Original Message—–

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI

Sent: Jun 9, 2005 10:17 AM

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid

i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the

reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has

to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i worked with a

guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of

ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day one .i for

the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how

lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i

attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the

importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know

its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am.

when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of

discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by

12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of the legs at

that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would

arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post

accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

_____

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo!

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virus/*http:/promotions.yahoo.com/n

ew_mail/static/protection.html>  Mail – Helps protect you from nasty

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Three Days To Lift Off
Date: June 9, 2005 at 5:59:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/8/05 7:14:51 PM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

I sit in constant leg twitch mode, cell in one hand, cigarette in
other, willing the phone to ring.  It won’t.  It never does when you
really really really want it, for some reason.  I pace back and forth
in the hotel room, wearing a track in the cheap carpet, throwing the
phone on the bed, sitting down, flipping through the channels, pick up
the phone, pace.  Fucking people in small towns make lousy drug
dealers.
<snip>
I feel like the worse person in the history of people, buying from
this kid, but I have three days to go, and no choice, if I want to get
through school and work.  I sigh and fork out $90 per freakin’ pill,
and pay $15 for a ten pack of rigs.

I’m a bit confused I thought you indicated just a while ago you had just been
retreated.  But, never mind on that.  I hope you are alive.

In a message dated 6/7/05 1:45:31 PM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

I have finally managed to semi ground myself, and am living on mangos
and youghurt right now, witha little V8 thrown in for variety.  I have
just experienced the most incredible treatment ever!!! And it didn’t
cost me a brain donation(as per mash).  I have much sleep to catch up
on, and little swimming thingies in front of my eyes still, but it’s
all gravy!!
IBOGAINE ROCKS!!!!back after my nexty snoozey nap and nibble of fruit.

You have gone from a few mgs of buprenorphine to I don’t know what of IV
oxycontin.  I should have tried to contact you immediately but, was just tired
from having to move some furniture.  So how much oxycontin did you shoot?  And,
just curious, as to why you chose to shoot it after taking oral opioids for so
long? Are you still with us or are you dead.  If you are dead I anticipate I
will not receive an answer.  If you are dead and I receive an answer I will be
amazed.  Take care. Explanations appreciated.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 9, 2005 at 4:14:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found these supplemental pills here in NZ, will find the URL again…. They’re called Stop P, basically for people who  have been going hard and need some nurturing. They contain L Tryptophan plus loads of other goodies.
A friend was being unknowingly doped with P which this guy (who wanted my mates girlfriend really badly) was putting in the joints.  So he’s been using these pills, reckons they’ve helped heaps and I must say he’s more his old self than he h as been in a couple of weeks.
Kirk
From: Carlton B [mailto:carltonb@mindspring.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:48 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] amino acid

If you are detoxing, you need to make sure you get your maximum nutrition.   Some detox regimens are very strict about eliminating meat and animal products.  Vegan/vegetarian diets have to be carefully planned to avoid neglecting the 8 essential amino acids.   The easy way to do it is with supplements of isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine,tryptophan and valine.   If you want to do it with food, you’ll have to consume a lot of different food sources to get everything you need.

As far as I know, no single amino acid is a magic bullet for detox.  I’ve read some people saying that L-glutamine is important but there haven’t been any supporting studies as far as I know.
—–Original Message—– 
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI 
Sent: Jun 9, 2005 10:17 AM 
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com 
Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid
i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i worked with a guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day one .i for the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am. when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by 12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of the legs at that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] humorous slams
Date: June 9, 2005 at 4:10:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Give me some time……………………………………………
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 7:08 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] humorous slams

In a message dated 6/6/2005 6:35:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dr. Tom writes:
Let’s laugh to not cry over the obscene national budget profits from
alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical cartels. And we can try to not think
about what the profits are spent on in terms of “science” and
mind/behavior control. It would be tricky to do anything with popular
lyrics about that. Maybe we could check out the Wobblies(I.W.W.) and Joe
Hill. They worked over Salvation Army Hymns in the early 20th Century with
some great creativity and heart
Amen.  I’m with you on this.          Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 9, 2005 at 4:09:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Owww, wicked, so sorry you had a run in with some bottom feeders.  My ex suffered from broken cheekbones from a supposed friend (ex army wank, I fight all my friends to see w hose top dog) and  had to get em wired up.  He blew his nose after the assault and his eyes puffed out!!! Looked so bizarre!!!  He’s still annoyed with the surgeons though, he asked for a face lift and they didn’t give it!
Hope all goes well for ya.
Kia Kaha (stay strong)
Kirk
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love

Sarah,
glad to hear things went so well. I hear they didn’t want to leave. keep up the good work.
I am still doing well but had a bit of a mishap on the weekend. Ended up getting robbed and the crap kicked out of me on my way home late in Bklyn. I wasn’t going to give up anything so they kicked the shit out of me and took it anyway. I didn’t even realize my wallet was gone until the next day. Now I have three broken bones in my face and I’m facing facial surgery next week. ugh! They have to wait for the swelling to go down before they can do anything. I’m in a good bit of pain but just smokin and Tylenol I’ve been turning down perc’s and vic’s every time I see another doctor. Its not going to be easy but I’m not taking any narcotics no matter how much pain I might be in before or after this surgery. Its just too cliche and I refuse to take advance of another excuse to go on another run. Screw it, its just pain and it will pass.
Anyway gald to hear your voyage was a successful one and look forward to reading about your progress. -M.
tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
IT IS SO NICE TO HEAR GOOD THINGS WITHOUT BICKERING!!!
LOVE YOU BOTH
tink

On 6/7/05, Jasen Chamoun wrote:
> 
> Randy my brother, 
> 
> It is always so nice to hear from you. Your emails make me smile from ear
> to ear. 
> 
> Randy,..I don’t know what to say other than you are a part of my
> recovery,..I feel 
> close to you and,….I love you. Thankyou. 
> 
> 
> love, Jasen. 
> 
> —– Original Message —– 
> From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com 
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com 
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:02 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen 
> 
> Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your
> experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your
> b rother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were
> going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out
> about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could
> ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now tell
> me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine
> changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I
> can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other
> side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got
> work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my shit
> together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be
> grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother. Randy


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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 9, 2005 at 10:29:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve read about a number of amino acids being used to treat drug cravings and restoring the balance of neurotransmitters in the brain, but as someone already said, don’t know of one that works like magic for withdrawal.

Here’s a couple of links that may jog your memory, that list amino acids useful in treating addiction.
http://www.counselormagazine.com/display_article.asp?aid=Nutritional_Gene_Theraphy.asp
http://www.docbluminc.com/

Mandy is currently following the amino acid program from the book “End your addiction now”.
Just started recently, says its helping to ease the cravings a bit, might post a report in a few weeks if we find they help.
About the book and the program in it here:
http://www.powerrecovery.com/PR/

Of the top of my head, DLPA (DL-phenalalanine) restores endorphins and leucine + methionine restore enkephalids, depleted by opiate use. DLPA has been shown to be a very powerful painkiller (google that one, heaps of info around). So maybe that’s the one?
Glutamine (or theanine) help the brain restore GABA supplies. GHB, which has been shown to ease withdrawal, also restores GABA. Sabril, an epilepsy drug, shown in studies to ease cravings in cocaine addicts, also restores GABA. So perhaps this is why glutamine is useful. Have not read anything about it being used in actual withdrawal though – only after, to ease cravings.
You can read about the other amino acids useful for treating addiction at the sites above.

cheers
Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI [mailto:rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 11:18 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid

i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i worked with a guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day one .i for the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am. when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by 12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of the legs at that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Mandy
Date: June 9, 2005 at 10:09:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Awesome, hope you get a good rest, happy landing 😉

Thanks to you both!! I just finished my second ibogaine treatment, and
it went spectacularly!!  I’ll be in touch again after i finally get
some real slepp…
love
tink

On 6/7/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
Boris,
What does Mandy do with her time? I know from past detoxes and
staying
clean
that I had no direction, hobby, job etc to keep me occupied so
inevitably
the ole cravings monster would return because I was doing nothing
and I
guess, was bored!  Being used to using drugs for motivation, it’s
too
easy
to go back to them.
Just a thought…from the crusty recesses of my brain lol.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2005 1:52 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] coupla questions

Hey tink,

Thanks for the advise!

You’re right about the counseling. Mandy is seeing a counselor
herself
and only once a week, but it would be difficult for me to join her,
as I
work full time, and the hours the counselor is available clash with
my
work hours. I’ll have to have a bit of a think about that and see
what
we can do.. maybe see someone else or I could try get some time of
work.
You’re right, it may be time for me to get some feedback on my
handling
of the situation.
And from what you said, makes me think once a week is not really
enough..

The only using once a month thing is a tricky one.. The experience
has
been that once Mandy hits that wall of cravings they just peak and
it is
pretty constant, to the point of loss of control. We tried the zero
use
approach, but in the end it wasn’t working (and my questions are
about
how to make it work), so the decision was to make use less and less
frequent just for a few months – 2 months, then 2 and half, 3 and
then
stop completely. If she used she had to talk to me about it first
and
hold out as long as she could – without me monitoring it she would
have
quickly spun out of control – she’s done plenty of time on the “I’ll
just do it occasionally” relapse merry-go-round. She only made it
over 2
months once. After every slip up there is always the immediate
promise
that it won’t happen again, at least for a long time, but when it
became
evident that was not going to work we had to be a bit flexible a bit
longer, so Mandy can get her head and her life in order, and be able
to
deal with the cravings better. And she has been getting better.
Before,
once the cravings started, that was it, they did not go away, just
keep
intensifying and staying intense. Now she can get through them a
bit,
and they are not as constant, coming and going, intensifying and
easing
up just a bit. Still, it’s been a slow improvement and still
extremely
hard for her, so she is pretty keen to try Ibogaine.
We are at a stage again now, when Mandy has said no more slip-ups
again
and is trying her best. Has been battling through the cravings so
far.
She is trying with everything she’s got, I know that for sure.

There is not much to say about me that’s really relevant to the
list, I
think. I have not been addicted to any substance besides nicotine,
never
used opiates, never anything IV, but have tried most other drugs,
recreationally. Used to like psychedelics, not sure if Ibogaine
would be
for me though. I am doing my best to help my girlfriend get through
this. We got together when she was off the H for a couple of months
and
things got more serious towards the end of last year.. it was always
a
condition of the relationship that she would stay clean, but I’ve
had to
be a little flexible about it last few months, because I decided she
is
was worth it to me. So we’re battling on together, making slow
progress.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, anyways! I’ve found it helpful, and
I
think Mandy has too.. come to think of it, you’re the first person
who’s
had experience with heroin addiction I’ve really bounced off details
of
the situation with. Mandy sometimes talks to some of her friends
who’ve
been through it for some support, but I’ve been going through it in
a
bit of a vacuum, I guess because I am more of a do it yourself kind
of
person, not used to asking for help – not last few years anyway.

I was surprised no one else had anything to reply to my questions..
Noone else had any experience that qualifies you to answer any of my
questions or are people too preoccupied with argueing about Dr Mash
(who
sounds pretty cool to me, btw)? If anyone missed it, I was basically
asking what techniques people use to fight the cravings and what
your
opinion/experience is with using benzos to fight them off. I guess
from
what I’ve read so far and been told the answer to my question re
Ibogaine is that it would help, but still not sure if to go for a
full
dose or smaller doses, as Mandy has not been physically addicted for
over year..
I did get one private reply, thanks for that one too!

Here’s a few words from Mandy:
Hi there Tink, Boris showed the email you wrote to him, your reply
was
appreciated, well written and very helpful. I’ve begun to try your
picturing  technique, both of us thought it was totally charming,
I’ll
let you know how I find it. My cravings come and go, though
sometimes
they have me in tears. It’s so hard sometimes there’s a place in me
that
wants to give up, it seems impossible to never have that again, I
can’t
put myself to sleep because there is people who care {sacred) it
would
solve nothing and who knows what’s just around the corner. As well
as
being wrong.I have decided not to use once a month or whatever, as
it
causes Boris pain, and is unfair as you know he is doing all he can
to
get me past this and be healed. It is an awesome blessing in my life
now, his strength and patience, support and love have saved my life,
surely true. It’s sure slow going, as you know, but you get what you
wish, true, and it is great to be moving back to a place to grow, to
have potential. I’d like to hear more about you if you’d like, most
of
my using was off my own bat so I know few others that understand, I
believe in you, and that you have faith I can be free gives me
heart.
Thank you Tink, may peace go in your heart, now and always. Blessed
be.

Cheers
Boris and Mandy

Welcome Home!
You’re in the right spot.  All I can do is share my personal
experience, and hope that it helps, in whatever way.  I’ve just
finally convinced the eyes to open, and am in the process of
caffeinating, so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed!
The average craving lasts physically for roughly 20 minutes, I’ve
been
told.  I’ve used it as a guideline, occasionally counting off the
seconds until the full twenty minutes was over, using it as a way
to
convince myself that if i got through those first 20 minutes, I
could
then get through the next  20.  The seconds may pass like
individual
years, but if you can put a bunch of 20 minute segments together,
you
end up with a day, then 2.  Meditation helps a bit, if you work at
it.
There’s one that I was given for panic attacks and the like, and
it’s
a flexible meditation excersise, in that you use visually what
ever is
in front of you to start.  When driving with my Mom the other day(
you
need meditation and benzos to get through a quick jaunt to the
store
with her-she’s a frightening driver :])I tried it out, and found
that
it distracted me away from the immediate freak out. So here’s what
you
can do.  I chose a bird I saw sitting on a telephone pole, and in
my
mind went through where the bird was and what the scene around him
was.  Example, (mumbling under my breath while Mom looked sideways
at
me with growing concern) The sun is shining on the bird, and on
the
bird is a feather, and on the feather is a mite, and on the mite
there
is an eye that looks back up in the sky and sees the sun.  Then
there
was a rock that lay on the side of the road, and had a bit of
moss, in
which lived a flea, who had a leg that stood on the lichen, and
stared
back up at the sun.  It worked in that it interrupted my thought
process by forcing me to go into detail about something around me,
and
allowed me to seperate the immediate anxiety out for a minute.  It
doesn’t always work, but it’s a good distraction tool, and it can
get
silly depending on the flora and fauna in your neck of the woods.
The
sun shines down on the platypus that sits on a rock in the water,
where there is a fish with a digereedoo(sp?) who plays for the
koala
that sleeps in the tree above the fish and the platypus?  Try it
out,
it may help…at the worse, you’ll end up giggling :]
I’d like to suggest some sort of counselling for both of you.
Without
my group therapy and my individual sessions, I would ber a
complete
basket case!  I mean, I still am a basket case, but a much more
highly
functioning one.  I think that this should be right on top of your
list of things to do, especially if there’s anyone having suicidal
thoughts.  Having a support system in place for both of you is
imperative, and seeing a counselor of some sort together might
help
you through some of the stress that addiction and other things put
on
your relationship.
I saw red flags all over the place when you said that you had
agreed
to let her use once a month, only speed?  There is no only once a
month, for me anyway.  Stopping your drug use has to be a decision
made by the person that’s trying to stop, in my experience.  Until
I
came to the point where I was literally willing to do absolutely
anything to get and stay clean, I was relapsing over and over, and
though the time in between relapses grew after a while, it only
takes
once to die.  There’s a saying that I’ve heard repeated to me over
and
over, and it makes sense: You have to go afteer your recovery with
all
of the vigor and enthusiasm of getting high. I’ve had an
incredible
time of it, figuring this one out, and am by far from there, but
getting closer.  She has to want to stop and be willing to do
anything
it takes.  It’s that simple and that complicated.  Again, this is
just
from my own experiences, but untill I said that I was willing to
do
what ever it took to stay clean, and then actually DID what I was
saying I was willing to do, I went through that miserable cycle of
using, a little here and there, then stopping, mild withdrawal,
climbing walls, clean time for a blurb, then right back to it.  I
don’t believe, for me, any way, that it’s possible to just use
once a
month.  I’ve never had that work out, and I tried a million times.
I
had to remove myself completely from the scene before I got
anywhere,
and still have to avoid certain people and places. Some times, a
snippet of a song, or a smell, little things, will bring me right
back
into the heart of it in my mind, but I’ve learned how to deal with
it
much more successfully thanks to some wonderful therapists.
Benzo’s have a rotten withdrawal to them as well.  Is that part of
the
problem, maybe?
In brief wrap up ( I had two flat tires yesterday and have to go
get
them taken care of-ugh!), I want to stress the importance of
having an
outside support system for the both of you!! having a place or a
group, or an individual counselor to down load to , as well as
getting
feedback, has been the key to my staying clean.  I go a minimum of
once a week, but when I started out, I went to group counseling 3
times a week, and individual sessions twice weekly.  NA has helped
to
a certain extent, but that’s a personal issue on my part :]  You
can
get an awful lot of info and help from this list, and am glad to
see
you made it here!  When I first signed up, I was detoxing off of
my
bupe, and having this list helped me through some excedingly rough
patches, and in all sorts of ways.
It would be lovely to hear from Amanda herself, and a bit about
you as
well, Boris.  I’ve found that having a voice speak for me
ineveitably
ends up with some sort of malfunction, and by making myself face
my
issues by speaking up, or typing out, has helped immeasurably.
You can only change yourself, and be there to help another when
they
need it, but it has to come from you personally(or it did for me).
Please keep moving forward! You’ve got a lot of good people here
who
will help out, if only to listen and respond, as well as point you
in
a direction that might be helpful.  It always comes back down to
what
you find you’re willing to do for yourself, though.
Welcome home!
love
tink

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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Mandy
Date: June 9, 2005 at 10:08:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Boris,
What does Mandy do with her time? I know from past detoxes and staying
clean that I had no direction, hobby, job etc to keep me occupied so
inevitably  the ole cravings monster would return because I was doing
nothing and I  guess, was bored!  Being used to using drugs for
motivation, it’s too easy to go back to them.
Just a thought…from the crusty recesses of my brain lol.
Kirk

hey Kirk,
yep, that’s a good point, but not quite Mandy’s problem at the moment.
She is working part time and for a while was actually too busy with work
(mostly waitressing) and other things and the stress (new job too) and
tiredness only added to the cravings. Now its kind of some days are
really busy and stressful with work and stuff and other days there is
not much to do. She is getting a better balance now, asked for shorter
shifts at work and trying to get back into doing some yoga and
meditation, as she used to do years ago, before drugs took over from
everything else.
A slight problem is lack of day to day rhythm, work roster changing all
the time, having various other things on, like councelling changing time
week to week, seeing a Chinese doctor to treat her back twice a week,
etc keeps her busy, but a bit unsettled.. hard to set a daily time to do
yoga, for example, as every day is different.
Yep, motivation is a big thing, when you’re used to using drugs to do
anything – to go to work, to clean the house, doing it all straight is
hard to get used to, especially when your body is battered from years of
drug abuse – especially amphetamines. It will take her a while to get
her energy back.
I don’t think the cravings are worse on days when she has not much to
do, compared to days when she is busy. But they ARE worse on days when
she is TOO busy.

Boris

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2005 1:52 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] coupla questions

Hey tink,

Thanks for the advise!

You’re right about the counseling. Mandy is seeing a counselor herself
and only once a week, but it would be difficult for me to join her, as
I
work full time, and the hours the counselor is available clash with my
work hours. I’ll have to have a bit of a think about that and see what
we can do.. maybe see someone else or I could try get some time of
work.
You’re right, it may be time for me to get some feedback on my
handling
of the situation.
And from what you said, makes me think once a week is not really
enough..

The only using once a month thing is a tricky one.. The experience has
been that once Mandy hits that wall of cravings they just peak and it
is
pretty constant, to the point of loss of control. We tried the zero
use
approach, but in the end it wasn’t working (and my questions are about
how to make it work), so the decision was to make use less and less
frequent just for a few months – 2 months, then 2 and half, 3 and then
stop completely. If she used she had to talk to me about it first and
hold out as long as she could – without me monitoring it she would
have
quickly spun out of control – she’s done plenty of time on the “I’ll
just do it occasionally” relapse merry-go-round. She only made it over
2
months once. After every slip up there is always the immediate promise
that it won’t happen again, at least for a long time, but when it
became
evident that was not going to work we had to be a bit flexible a bit
longer, so Mandy can get her head and her life in order, and be able
to
deal with the cravings better. And she has been getting better.
Before,
once the cravings started, that was it, they did not go away, just
keep
intensifying and staying intense. Now she can get through them a bit,
and they are not as constant, coming and going, intensifying and
easing
up just a bit. Still, it’s been a slow improvement and still extremely
hard for her, so she is pretty keen to try Ibogaine.
We are at a stage again now, when Mandy has said no more slip-ups
again
and is trying her best. Has been battling through the cravings so far.
She is trying with everything she’s got, I know that for sure.

There is not much to say about me that’s really relevant to the list,
I
think. I have not been addicted to any substance besides nicotine,
never
used opiates, never anything IV, but have tried most other drugs,
recreationally. Used to like psychedelics, not sure if Ibogaine would
be
for me though. I am doing my best to help my girlfriend get through
this. We got together when she was off the H for a couple of months
and
things got more serious towards the end of last year.. it was always a
condition of the relationship that she would stay clean, but I’ve had
to
be a little flexible about it last few months, because I decided she
is
was worth it to me. So we’re battling on together, making slow
progress.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, anyways! I’ve found it helpful, and I
think Mandy has too.. come to think of it, you’re the first person
who’s
had experience with heroin addiction I’ve really bounced off details
of
the situation with. Mandy sometimes talks to some of her friends
who’ve
been through it for some support, but I’ve been going through it in a
bit of a vacuum, I guess because I am more of a do it yourself kind of
person, not used to asking for help – not last few years anyway.

I was surprised no one else had anything to reply to my questions..
Noone else had any experience that qualifies you to answer any of my
questions or are people too preoccupied with argueing about Dr Mash
(who
sounds pretty cool to me, btw)? If anyone missed it, I was basically
asking what techniques people use to fight the cravings and what your
opinion/experience is with using benzos to fight them off. I guess
from
what I’ve read so far and been told the answer to my question re
Ibogaine is that it would help, but still not sure if to go for a full
dose or smaller doses, as Mandy has not been physically addicted for
over year..
I did get one private reply, thanks for that one too!

Here’s a few words from Mandy:
Hi there Tink, Boris showed the email you wrote to him, your reply was
appreciated, well written and very helpful. I’ve begun to try your
picturing  technique, both of us thought it was totally charming, I’ll
let you know how I find it. My cravings come and go, though sometimes
they have me in tears. It’s so hard sometimes there’s a place in me
that
wants to give up, it seems impossible to never have that again, I
can’t
put myself to sleep because there is people who care {sacred) it would
solve nothing and who knows what’s just around the corner. As well as
being wrong.I have decided not to use once a month or whatever, as it
causes Boris pain, and is unfair as you know he is doing all he can to
get me past this and be healed. It is an awesome blessing in my life
now, his strength and patience, support and love have saved my life,
surely true. It’s sure slow going, as you know, but you get what you
wish, true, and it is great to be moving back to a place to grow, to
have potential. I’d like to hear more about you if you’d like, most of
my using was off my own bat so I know few others that understand, I
believe in you, and that you have faith I can be free gives me heart.
Thank you Tink, may peace go in your heart, now and always. Blessed
be.

Cheers
Boris and Mandy

Welcome Home!
You’re in the right spot.  All I can do is share my personal
experience, and hope that it helps, in whatever way.  I’ve just
finally convinced the eyes to open, and am in the process of
caffeinating, so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed!
The average craving lasts physically for roughly 20 minutes, I’ve
been
told.  I’ve used it as a guideline, occasionally counting off the
seconds until the full twenty minutes was over, using it as a way to
convince myself that if i got through those first 20 minutes, I
could
then get through the next  20.  The seconds may pass like individual
years, but if you can put a bunch of 20 minute segments together,
you
end up with a day, then 2.  Meditation helps a bit, if you work at
it.
There’s one that I was given for panic attacks and the like, and
it’s
a flexible meditation excersise, in that you use visually what ever
is
in front of you to start.  When driving with my Mom the other day(
you
need meditation and benzos to get through a quick jaunt to the store
with her-she’s a frightening driver :])I tried it out, and found
that
it distracted me away from the immediate freak out. So here’s what
you
can do.  I chose a bird I saw sitting on a telephone pole, and in my
mind went through where the bird was and what the scene around him
was.  Example, (mumbling under my breath while Mom looked sideways
at
me with growing concern) The sun is shining on the bird, and on the
bird is a feather, and on the feather is a mite, and on the mite
there
is an eye that looks back up in the sky and sees the sun.  Then
there
was a rock that lay on the side of the road, and had a bit of moss,
in
which lived a flea, who had a leg that stood on the lichen, and
stared
back up at the sun.  It worked in that it interrupted my thought
process by forcing me to go into detail about something around me,
and
allowed me to seperate the immediate anxiety out for a minute.  It
doesn’t always work, but it’s a good distraction tool, and it can
get
silly depending on the flora and fauna in your neck of the woods.
The
sun shines down on the platypus that sits on a rock in the water,
where there is a fish with a digereedoo(sp?) who plays for the koala
that sleeps in the tree above the fish and the platypus?  Try it
out,
it may help…at the worse, you’ll end up giggling :]
I’d like to suggest some sort of counselling for both of you.
Without
my group therapy and my individual sessions, I would ber a complete
basket case!  I mean, I still am a basket case, but a much more
highly
functioning one.  I think that this should be right on top of your
list of things to do, especially if there’s anyone having suicidal
thoughts.  Having a support system in place for both of you is
imperative, and seeing a counselor of some sort together might help
you through some of the stress that addiction and other things put
on
your relationship.
I saw red flags all over the place when you said that you had agreed
to let her use once a month, only speed?  There is no only once a
month, for me anyway.  Stopping your drug use has to be a decision
made by the person that’s trying to stop, in my experience.  Until I
came to the point where I was literally willing to do absolutely
anything to get and stay clean, I was relapsing over and over, and
though the time in between relapses grew after a while, it only
takes
once to die.  There’s a saying that I’ve heard repeated to me over
and
over, and it makes sense: You have to go afteer your recovery with
all
of the vigor and enthusiasm of getting high. I’ve had an incredible
time of it, figuring this one out, and am by far from there, but
getting closer.  She has to want to stop and be willing to do
anything
it takes.  It’s that simple and that complicated.  Again, this is
just
from my own experiences, but untill I said that I was willing to do
what ever it took to stay clean, and then actually DID what I was
saying I was willing to do, I went through that miserable cycle of
using, a little here and there, then stopping, mild withdrawal,
climbing walls, clean time for a blurb, then right back to it.  I
don’t believe, for me, any way, that it’s possible to just use once
a
month.  I’ve never had that work out, and I tried a million times.
I
had to remove myself completely from the scene before I got
anywhere,
and still have to avoid certain people and places. Some times, a
snippet of a song, or a smell, little things, will bring me right
back
into the heart of it in my mind, but I’ve learned how to deal with
it
much more successfully thanks to some wonderful therapists.
Benzo’s have a rotten withdrawal to them as well.  Is that part of
the
problem, maybe?
In brief wrap up ( I had two flat tires yesterday and have to go get
them taken care of-ugh!), I want to stress the importance of having
an
outside support system for the both of you!! having a place or a
group, or an individual counselor to down load to , as well as
getting
feedback, has been the key to my staying clean.  I go a minimum of
once a week, but when I started out, I went to group counseling 3
times a week, and individual sessions twice weekly.  NA has helped
to
a certain extent, but that’s a personal issue on my part :]  You can
get an awful lot of info and help from this list, and am glad to see
you made it here!  When I first signed up, I was detoxing off of my
bupe, and having this list helped me through some excedingly rough
patches, and in all sorts of ways.
It would be lovely to hear from Amanda herself, and a bit about you
as
well, Boris.  I’ve found that having a voice speak for me
ineveitably
ends up with some sort of malfunction, and by making myself face my
issues by speaking up, or typing out, has helped immeasurably.
You can only change yourself, and be there to help another when they
need it, but it has to come from you personally(or it did for me).
Please keep moving forward! You’ve got a lot of good people here who
will help out, if only to listen and respond, as well as point you
in
a direction that might be helpful.  It always comes back down to
what
you find you’re willing to do for yourself, though.
Welcome home!
love
tink

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Three Days To Lift Off
Date: June 9, 2005 at 7:19:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amen.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
I sit in constant leg twitch mode, cell in one hand, cigarette in
other, willing the phone to ring. It won’t. It never does when you
really really really want it, for some reason. I pace back and forth
in the hotel room, wearing a track in the cheap carpet, throwing the
phone on the bed, sitting down, flipping through the channels, pick up
the phone, pace. Fucking people in small towns make lousy drug
dealers.
I have three or four days to go ’til the Ibogaboys are here, and the
fact that i have to actually go out and cop, for the first time in
almost a year, is doing more than a massive number on me.
I hate this shit. I really hate this shit.
I ran out of the old stash of percs from the last tooth pull, raided
my parents everything, and have hit up everyone I know, and now I have
to wait for THE CALL. I’m muttering “three days three days three
days” behind clenched teeth, and thinking about the looks I keep
getting from the friends I’ve made while clean as of late. The phone
is not ringing.
I flip the cell, dial the now familiar number, and it rings. And it rings.
And it rings.
I never want to be here again.
How many times have i said that before, and then run face first into
the nearest brick wall?
The phone makes it’s weird little techno tingle ring, and i drop the
phone in my haste to answer, but manage to answer.
“You there?”
“Wassup?”
“You still lookin’?”
“Yeah. How long?”
“Be there in fifteen.”
click
Here we go with the never ending fifteen minute wait.
Almost two hours to the second, there’s a very light tap on the door,
and I run, fumbling with the stupid crossbar lock thing that jams the
top of my door when I’m in paranoid mode. In walks this little
shithead, all of 17, if he’s a day, swaggering in his baggies, boxers
prominently displayed, cell glued to his head, saying “I gotcha, I
gotcha. Lemme finish up here and I’ll be by. Fifteen minutes, I
promise baby.” he’s holding up a finger and has yet to even look over
to see who I am. He hangs up and the phone rings immediately, which
he looks at, turns off, and then smiles at me.
“Whatcha need?”
I feel like the worse person in the history of people, buying from
this kid, but I have three days to go, and no choice, if I want to get
through school and work. I sigh and fork out $90 per freakin’ pill,
and pay $15 for a ten pack of rigs. This has got to be an all time
record high price for me. I miss the city for about two seconds, snap
out of it, kick the kid out of my room, and go sit at the table near
the window.
I sit there for about 2 hours, twitching, looking at the damned oxy’s, smoking.
I have tears running down my face as I start my little ritual, but
that’s as close to emotion as I can come up with right now. After
struggling to find anything that still works, I find a long forgotten
vein behind my knee, and it’s over.
I never want to be here again.

love
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 8, 2005 at 10:47:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you are detoxing, you need to make sure you get your maximum nutrition.   Some detox regimens are very strict about eliminating meat and animal products.  Vegan/vegetarian diets have to be carefully planned to avoid neglecting the 8 essential amino acids.   The easy way to do it is with supplements of isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine,tryptophan and valine.   If you want to do it with food, you’ll have to consume a lot of different food sources to get everything you need.

As far as I know, no single amino acid is a magic bullet for detox.  I’ve read some people saying that L-glutamine is important but there haven’t been any supporting studies as far as I know.

—–Original Message—–
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI
Sent: Jun 9, 2005 10:17 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid

i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i worked with a guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day one .i for the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am. when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by 12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of the legs at that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] amino acid
Date: June 8, 2005 at 9:17:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’ve got a question about the name of a specific amino acid in the reconstruction of cells during detox the same amino acid that the body has to replace an enzyme  that causes the sickness of withdrawl i worked with a guy who was on 180 mg. methadone and we used a daily regiment of 30mg of ibogaine for 4 days after the initial 15mg per kilo flood on day one .i for the life of me cannot remember the amino acid i wrote it down but some how lost track.. anyway i had my own doctor at the clinic for methadone i attended the year before explain this proccess so i understand the importance of this specific amino acid if anybody knows please let me know its not the combo of ,  its one…. the results were amazing at 8;30 am. when he would take this he felt almost as if there was no sence of discomfort as if there was no internal struggle in the body happenning  by 12:00 pm.  some symptoms would begin mostly cold in the core of the legs at that time we would administer the 30 mg. booster of  ibogaine that would arrest any further symptoms .this seems to be a helpful agent in  the post accute withdrawls .. thanx rocky

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 8, 2005 at 8:35:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jesus Christ Mark,
Ouch. Best of thoughts your direction.
It’s definitely a test- who ever it testing you.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love

Sarah,
glad to hear things went so well. I hear they didn’t want to leave. keep up the good work.
I am still doing well but had a bit of a mishap on the weekend. Ended up getting robbed and the crap kicked out of me on my way home late in Bklyn. I wasn’t going to give up anything so they kicked the shit out of me and took it anyway. I didn’t even realize my wallet was gone until the next day. Now I have three broken bones in my face and I’m facing facial surgery next week. ugh! They have to wait for the swelling to go down before they can do anything. I’m in a good bit of pain but just smokin and Tylenol I’ve been turning down perc’s and vic’s every time I see another doctor. Its not going to be easy but I’m not taking any narcotics no matter how much pain I might be in before or after this surgery. Its just too cliche and I refuse to take advance of another excuse to go on another run. Screw it, its just pain and it will pass.
Anyway gald to hear your voyage was a successful one and look forward to reading about your progress. -M.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
IT IS SO NICE TO HEAR GOOD THINGS WITHOUT BICKERING!!!
LOVE YOU BOTH
tink

On 6/7/05, Jasen Chamoun wrote:

Randy my brother,

It is always so nice to hear from you. Your emails make me smile from ear
to ear.

Randy,..I don’t know what to say other than you are a part of my
recovery,..I feel
close to you and,….I love you. Thankyou.

love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen

Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your
experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your
! brother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were
going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out
about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could
ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now tell
me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine
changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I
can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other
side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got
work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my shit
together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be
grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother. Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] humorous slams
Date: June 8, 2005 at 3:08:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/6/2005 6:35:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dr. Tom writes:
Let’s laugh to not cry over the obscene national budget profits from
alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical cartels. And we can try to not think
about what the profits are spent on in terms of “science” and
mind/behavior control. It would be tricky to do anything with popular
lyrics about that. Maybe we could check out the Wobblies(I.W.W.) and Joe
Hill. They worked over Salvation Army Hymns in the early 20th Century with
some great creativity and heart
Amen.  I’m with you on this.          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Steve
Date: June 8, 2005 at 3:03:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve, I read what I wrote today to a couple of people, and feel somewhat of a dick about it. I aint kiddin’ when I say this is therapy to me. I can see what space I’m in later, and reflect on it. I can be an asshole sometimes. I did mean what I said about acceptance, I was just being sarcastic. Stay with it dude the answer will come.        Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 8, 2005 at 11:03:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I heard a little bit about your misadventures-wtf!!
Can’t win for losing sometimes.
My thoughts and extra endorphines are being sent your way.  When is
your surgery? Did you figure out all that other happy horse shit yet?
love and serenity and maryjane
tink
On 6/8/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

Sarah,
glad to hear things went so well. I hear they didn’t want to leave. keep up
the good work.
I am still doing well but had a bit of a mishap on the weekend. Ended up
getting robbed and the crap kicked out of me on my way home late in Bklyn. I
wasn’t going to give up anything so they kicked the shit out of me and took
it anyway. I didn’t even realize my wallet was gone until the next day. Now
I have three broken bones in my face and I’m facing facial surgery next
week. ugh! They have to wait for the swelling to go down before they can do
anything. I’m in a good bit of pain but just smokin and Tylenol I’ve been
turning down perc’s and vic’s every time I see another doctor. Its not going
to be easy but I’m not taking any narcotics no matter how much pain I might
be in before or after this surgery. Its just too cliche and I refuse to take
advance of another excuse to go on another run. Screw it, its just pain and
it will pass.
Anyway gald to hear your voyage was a successful one and look forward to
reading about your progress. -M.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
IT IS SO NICE TO HEAR GOOD THINGS WITHOUT BICKERING!!!
LOVE YOU BOTH
tink

On 6/7/05, Jasen Chamoun wrote:

Randy my brother,

It is always so nice to hear from you. Your emails make me smile from ear
to ear.

Randy,..I don’t know what to say other than you are a part of my
recovery,..I feel
close to you and,….I love you. Thankyou.

love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen

Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your
experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your
brother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were
going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out
about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could
ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now
tell
me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine
changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I
can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other
side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got
work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my
shit
together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be
grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother. Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 8, 2005 at 10:54:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sarah,
glad to hear things went so well. I hear they didn’t want to leave. keep up the good work.
I am still doing well but had a bit of a mishap on the weekend. Ended up getting robbed and the crap kicked out of me on my way home late in Bklyn. I wasn’t going to give up anything so they kicked the shit out of me and took it anyway. I didn’t even realize my wallet was gone until the next day. Now I have three broken bones in my face and I’m facing facial surgery next week. ugh! They have to wait for the swelling to go down before they can do anything. I’m in a good bit of pain but just smokin and Tylenol I’ve been turning down perc’s and vic’s every time I see another doctor. Its not going to be easy but I’m not taking any narcotics no matter how much pain I might be in before or after this surgery. Its just too cliche and I refuse to take advance of another excuse to go on another run. Screw it, its just pain and it will pass.
Anyway gald to hear your voyage was a successful one and look forward to reading about your progress. -M.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
IT IS SO NICE TO HEAR GOOD THINGS WITHOUT BICKERING!!!
LOVE YOU BOTH
tink

On 6/7/05, Jasen Chamoun wrote:
>
> Randy my brother,
>
> It is always so nice to hear from you. Your emails make me smile from ear
> to ear.
>
> Randy,..I don’t know what to say other than you are a part of my
> recovery,..I feel
> close to you and,….I love you. Thankyou.
>
>
> love, Jasen.
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen
>
> Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your
> experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your
> brother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were
> going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out
> about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could
> ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now tell
> me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine
> changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I
> can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other
> side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got
> work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my shit
> together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be
> grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother. Randy

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 8, 2005 at 8:25:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IT IS SO NICE TO HEAR GOOD THINGS WITHOUT BICKERING!!!
LOVE YOU BOTH
tink

On 6/7/05, Jasen Chamoun <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Randy my brother,

It is always so nice to hear from you. Your emails make me smile from ear
to ear.

Randy,..I don’t know what to say other than you are a part of my
recovery,..I feel
close to you and,….I love you. Thankyou.

love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen

Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your
experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your
brother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were
going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out
about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could
ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now tell
me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine
changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I
can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other
side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got
work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my shit
together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be
grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother.          Randy

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Tink
Date: June 8, 2005 at 8:24:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lee
no problemo-when ever you’re ready.  eating some brekkie for once
without yarfing.  Who’da thunk
I could handle eggs again? I hpe your move(s) go(es) well, and look
for the latest tale of tripping the light fantastic as soon as I can
get my hands to coordinate :]
love
tink
On 6/8/05, Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Tink,
Thank you so much for the offer. I am moving around the next few weeks but I
will send you an address when I get organised. The postage to europe may
cost so you could send it the slowest way possible – no rush!
Very happy to hear you have had your second treatment and that it went well.
I will wait to hear more of your news.
Congratulations.
Rest well,
Lee

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m still trying to wrap my head around reality, having just finished
my second ibo treatment, adn what an experience! I have p sya that it
was SO much better not bieng hooked up to machines and asked to do
road side sobriety tests in themidst of it :}
After I get some sleep tonight, I’ll rewatch it and fill you in. Do
you need a copy not in spanish? Give me an address.
love
tink
On 6/7/05, Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Tink,

Out of curiosity what do you think the message about ibogaine was coming
from that episode?

Just to clarify. I watched it in Spanish and added in my post I was not
sure
if I understood what I had seen as I had difficulty with the Spanish. Dana
kindly clarified my questions on what I thought I heard.

Lee

tink wrote:
speaking of which, i watched that csi episode on ibogaine. i should’ve
kept tabs on how many times i said “no freaking way..”

On 6/5/05, tink wrote:
tink has declared dana a GAWD!!!
get it straight :}

On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of
treatment.
One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to
be
aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a
decision.
Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3
mtimes
a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and
the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so.
I
am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was
getting
a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of
that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though
the
ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but
I
knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only
thing
that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am
self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come
up)
I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is
some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power
and
I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list
for
those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Was … Now The Goddess
Date: June 8, 2005 at 8:00:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi ekki,

Theres the question. Joseph Campbell said (I hope I am quoting him accurately) that woman did not need to find the goddess as they already embodied the goddess. But then he said at least one other thing which, while not taking from his “amazing” work, may not be altogether true: he did not believe in an historic Jesus.

Not being a woman I cannot directly experience the healing path a woman may undergo but I have no doubt that a woman also needs to restore her connection with the divine feminine or the goddess if it has been lost. What I can say is that encountering the goddess comes with a deep respect for the feminine and a realization that humble submission to this energy (i.e. a realisation that ones male energy has no right to supremacy whatsoever over the female energy and indeed needs the deepest respect for the female energy to complete itself) is what allows one to connect profoundly within a loving relationship to another. Hence some of the goddesses you so lovingly refer to in your post.

The goddess imo cannot be connected with until there is a balance between soul and ego  and this surely applies to woman as much as man. Why, because the aggression of the Shadow energy is completely anathema to the goddess energy – partial connections can take place. This aggression only goes when the balance has been restored between the ego and the soul. In that sense connecting with the goddess is a sign that the persons energy on all levels is coming into harmony – hence a pinnacle of progress imo, as the ultimate goal of healing and becoming, is to become aware and connected to the gods from which we derive, our spiritual parents. We are if you like in a state of spiritual pregnancy imo.

I do hope in time to puzzle out the spiritual equation of womans relationhip to the goddess, if thats possible as a man to do.

I hope you didn’t take my mail as preaching on the ego. I think many have their own interpretion of what the ego is and is not. If the hat fits wear it! But I think it helps to have some form of graphic description with which one can refer in order to help the intuitive process of ones one healing along – a kind of spiritual compass. If two systems of explanation facilitate the same journey then does the explanation really matter?

Lee

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
dear lee, thanks for your explanation. i never met the divine feminine
(only a few mundane ones, but they can be quite nice,too ). sounds
interesting though. i´ll order your book. btw is the pinnacle of womans
spiritual evolution the contact with the divine feminine, too?
-ekki

Am 07.06.2005 um 21:17 schrieb Lee Albert:

> Hi Ekki,
>
> I am tempted to get into a discussion with you on the ego here with a
> little trepidation.
>
> Just to keep it short I draw a distinction between the tamed ego and
> the ego that acts outside those bounds as a substitute for the balance
> between ego and soul. A balance which in turn brings one into contact
> with the divine feminine (the goddess), a pinnacle of mans spiritual
> evolution – all of which is my opinion 🙂
>
> When I use the term ego, it is in the way most understand it as the
> untamed ego.
>
> Of course without the ego I could not post at all!
>
> The tamed ego also does the bidding of the soul.
>
> 🙂
>
> Lee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Tink
Date: June 8, 2005 at 7:33:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Tink,
Thank you so much for the offer. I am moving around the next few weeks but I will send you an address when I get organised. The postage to europe may cost so you could send it the slowest way possible – no rush!
Very happy to hear you have had your second treatment and that it went well. I will wait to hear more of your news.
Congratulations.
Rest well,
Lee

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m still trying to wrap my head around reality, having just finished
my second ibo treatment, adn what an experience! I have p sya that it
was SO much better not bieng hooked up to machines and asked to do
road side sobriety tests in themidst of it :}
After I get some sleep tonight, I’ll rewatch it and fill you in. Do
you need a copy not in spanish? Give me an address.
love
tink
On 6/7/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi Tink,
>
> Out of curiosity what do you think the message about ibogaine was coming
> from that episode?
>
> Just to clarify. I watched it in Spanish and added in my post I was not sure
> if I understood what I had seen as I had difficulty with the Spanish. Dana
> kindly clarified my questions on what I thought I heard.
>
> Lee
>
> tink wrote:
> speaking of which, i watched that csi episode on ibogaine. i should’ve
> kept tabs on how many times i said “no freaking way..”
>
>
> On 6/5/05, tink wrote:
> > tink has declared dana a GAWD!!!
> > get it straight :}
> >
> > On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:
> > >
> > > Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
> > > about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
> > > with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?
> > >
> > > You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
> > > writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
> > > say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?
> > >
> > > Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
> > > distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
> > > try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
> > > chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
> > > god.
> > >
> > > .:vector:.
> > >
> > >
> > > — sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > >
> > > > >I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
> > > > experience
> > > > and just saying this and that….
> > > >
> > > > yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
> > > > and
> > > > another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.
> > > >
> > > > I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
> > > > every time
> > > > it was a different experience.
> > > >
> > > > talking about both HCL and extract.
> > > >
> > > > some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
> > > > trip,
> > > > others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
> > > > you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
> > > > and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.
> > > >
> > > > you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
> > > > which
> > > > will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
> > > > for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
> > > > spiritual
> > > > experience without risking almost anything .
> > > >
> > > > no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Steve,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
> > > > One
> > > > > with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
> > > > the other
> > > > > with “pure” ibogaine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
> > > > ibogaine
> > > > > on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
> > > > believe that
> > > > > starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
> > > > safer
> > > > > route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
> > > > spritual
> > > > > considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
> > > > “right
> > > > > here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
> > > > personally I
> > > > > would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
> > > > it
> > > > > appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
> > > > death I
> > > > > am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
> > > > sandwich while
> > > > > unsupervised. Maybe there are others?
> > > > >
> > > > > For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
> > > > alkaloids
> > > > > lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
> > > > before
> > > > > on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
> > > > interruption
> > > > > serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
> > > > which
> > > > > contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
> > > > extract –
> > > > > in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
> > > > for
> > > > > first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course studies are needed to prove anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
> > > > lacks a
> > > > > higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
> > > > further. A
> > > > > few topics that might be considered are:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Treatment protocols such as ……
> > > > > 2. Advanced Screening
> > > > > 3. …… and so on…
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?
> > > > >
> > > > > All the best to you,
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > > Steve,
> > > > >
> > > > > personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
> > > > > very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
> > > > > dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
> > > > > I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
> > > > better
> > > > > take the ibo rectally.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sara
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
> > > > are
> > > > >> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
> > > > that
> > > > >> there
> > > > >> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
> > > > aware
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
> > > > the
> > > > >> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
> > > > Only
> > > > >> you
> > > > >> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
> > > > take
> > > > >> care
> > > > >> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Nick
> > > > >> —–Original Message—–
> > > > >> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
> > > > >> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
> > > > >> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
> > > > to
> > > > >> have
> > > > >> started.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
> > > > >> yet.
> > > > >> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
> > > > a
> > > > >> day.
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
> > > > >> amount
> > > > >> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
> > > > am 41
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
> > > > with is
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
> > > > more
> > > > >> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
> > > > needed to
> > > > >> get
> > > > >> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
> > > > to
> > > > >> sleep.
> > > > >> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
> > > > a
> > > > >> day.
> > > > >> It
> > > > >> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
> > > > me hot
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
> > > > >> hospital
> > > > >> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
> > > > ulcer
> > > > >> was
> > > > >> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
> > > > knew
> > > > >> that
> > > > >> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
> > > > >> believe
> > > > >> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
> > > > that
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
> > > > >> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
> > > > that you
> > > > >> can.
> > > > >> I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
> > > > I
> > > > >> have
> > > > >> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
> > > > detox
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
> > > > >> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
> > > > point. Let
> > > > >> me
> > > > >> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
> > > > I am
> > > > >> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
> > > > people. I
> > > > >> dont
> > > > >> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
> > > > >> treatment?
> > > > >> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
> > > > as in
> > > > >> alot
> > > > >> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
> > > > these
> > > > >> ideas
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
> > > > that
> > > > >> went
> > > > >> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
> > > > easy in
> > > > >> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
> > > > What was
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
> > > > your
> > > > >> mood?
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
> > > > someone
> > > > >> on
> > > > >> the list that sounded normal like you.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Steve
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > > > [%]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
> > > > over a
> > > > > six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > > > those
> > > > > already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
> year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
> already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] We get to carry each other. One love
Date: June 7, 2005 at 11:42:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy my brother,

It is always so nice to hear from you. Your emails make me smile from ear to ear.

Randy,..I don’t know what to say other than you are a part of my recovery,..I feel
close to you and,….I love you. Thankyou.

love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen

Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your brother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now tell me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my shit together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother.          Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 7, 2005 at 8:43:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

can’t we all just….get along?
:}
tinkerhell

On 6/6/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Nick, trust me, some of us don’t need to feel totally angry. I’ve had enough
anger for the rest of my life. But, when it comes, I embrace it, maybe too
much, but since I took Ibogaine, I have been able to deal with it in a much
more rational manner. That is if you don’t pay attention to the inane
ramblings that I do on this list. Fuck this is pissing me off, *&^%&^&(
shit&^$^%*(&(&() oh sorry.          Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee
Date: June 7, 2005 at 8:34:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m still trying to wrap my head around reality, having just finished
my second ibo treatment, adn what an experience! I have p sya that it
was SO much better not bieng hooked up to machines and asked to do
road side sobriety tests in themidst of it :}
After I get some sleep tonight, I’ll rewatch it and fill you in. Do
you need a copy not in spanish? Give me an address.
love
tink
On 6/7/05, Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Tink,

Out of curiosity what do you think the message about ibogaine was coming
from that episode?

Just to clarify. I watched it in Spanish and added in my post I was not sure
if I understood what I had seen as I had difficulty with the Spanish. Dana
kindly clarified my questions on what I thought I heard.

Lee

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
speaking of which, i watched that csi episode on ibogaine. i should’ve
kept tabs on how many times i said “no freaking way..”

On 6/5/05, tink wrote:
tink has declared dana a GAWD!!!
get it straight :}

On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] one last thought before i go to sleep
Date: June 7, 2005 at 6:58:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“I had a teacher once,’ Lokesh said after a moment.  “He didn’t
believe that the human incarnation was particularly importnat in the
chain of existance.  He said humans com and go, they throw off faces
all the time, that the whole purpose of humans is to keep virtue
alive, to be a vessel for virtue.  he siad that if you lived enough
lives that way, you became virtue, and then you had a chance at true
enlightenment.”
-from “Water Touching Stone” by Eliot Pattison
love you all
tink
send some sleep my way if you think of it…

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [Mandy
Date: June 7, 2005 at 5:28:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to you both!! I just finished my second ibogaine treatment, and
it went spectacularly!!  I’ll be in touch again after i finally get
some real slepp…
love
tink

On 6/7/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:
Boris,
What does Mandy do with her time? I know from past detoxes and staying clean
that I had no direction, hobby, job etc to keep me occupied so inevitably
the ole cravings monster would return because I was doing nothing and I
guess, was bored!  Being used to using drugs for motivation, it’s too easy
to go back to them.
Just a thought…from the crusty recesses of my brain lol.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2005 1:52 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] coupla questions

Hey tink,

Thanks for the advise!

You’re right about the counseling. Mandy is seeing a counselor herself
and only once a week, but it would be difficult for me to join her, as I
work full time, and the hours the counselor is available clash with my
work hours. I’ll have to have a bit of a think about that and see what
we can do.. maybe see someone else or I could try get some time of work.
You’re right, it may be time for me to get some feedback on my handling
of the situation.
And from what you said, makes me think once a week is not really
enough..

The only using once a month thing is a tricky one.. The experience has
been that once Mandy hits that wall of cravings they just peak and it is
pretty constant, to the point of loss of control. We tried the zero use
approach, but in the end it wasn’t working (and my questions are about
how to make it work), so the decision was to make use less and less
frequent just for a few months – 2 months, then 2 and half, 3 and then
stop completely. If she used she had to talk to me about it first and
hold out as long as she could – without me monitoring it she would have
quickly spun out of control – she’s done plenty of time on the “I’ll
just do it occasionally” relapse merry-go-round. She only made it over 2
months once. After every slip up there is always the immediate promise
that it won’t happen again, at least for a long time, but when it became
evident that was not going to work we had to be a bit flexible a bit
longer, so Mandy can get her head and her life in order, and be able to
deal with the cravings better. And she has been getting better. Before,
once the cravings started, that was it, they did not go away, just keep
intensifying and staying intense. Now she can get through them a bit,
and they are not as constant, coming and going, intensifying and easing
up just a bit. Still, it’s been a slow improvement and still extremely
hard for her, so she is pretty keen to try Ibogaine.
We are at a stage again now, when Mandy has said no more slip-ups again
and is trying her best. Has been battling through the cravings so far.
She is trying with everything she’s got, I know that for sure.

There is not much to say about me that’s really relevant to the list, I
think. I have not been addicted to any substance besides nicotine, never
used opiates, never anything IV, but have tried most other drugs,
recreationally. Used to like psychedelics, not sure if Ibogaine would be
for me though. I am doing my best to help my girlfriend get through
this. We got together when she was off the H for a couple of months and
things got more serious towards the end of last year.. it was always a
condition of the relationship that she would stay clean, but I’ve had to
be a little flexible about it last few months, because I decided she is
was worth it to me. So we’re battling on together, making slow progress.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, anyways! I’ve found it helpful, and I
think Mandy has too.. come to think of it, you’re the first person who’s
had experience with heroin addiction I’ve really bounced off details of
the situation with. Mandy sometimes talks to some of her friends who’ve
been through it for some support, but I’ve been going through it in a
bit of a vacuum, I guess because I am more of a do it yourself kind of
person, not used to asking for help – not last few years anyway.

I was surprised no one else had anything to reply to my questions..
Noone else had any experience that qualifies you to answer any of my
questions or are people too preoccupied with argueing about Dr Mash (who
sounds pretty cool to me, btw)? If anyone missed it, I was basically
asking what techniques people use to fight the cravings and what your
opinion/experience is with using benzos to fight them off. I guess from
what I’ve read so far and been told the answer to my question re
Ibogaine is that it would help, but still not sure if to go for a full
dose or smaller doses, as Mandy has not been physically addicted for
over year..
I did get one private reply, thanks for that one too!

Here’s a few words from Mandy:
Hi there Tink, Boris showed the email you wrote to him, your reply was
appreciated, well written and very helpful. I’ve begun to try your
picturing  technique, both of us thought it was totally charming, I’ll
let you know how I find it. My cravings come and go, though sometimes
they have me in tears. It’s so hard sometimes there’s a place in me that
wants to give up, it seems impossible to never have that again, I can’t
put myself to sleep because there is people who care {sacred) it would
solve nothing and who knows what’s just around the corner. As well as
being wrong.I have decided not to use once a month or whatever, as it
causes Boris pain, and is unfair as you know he is doing all he can to
get me past this and be healed. It is an awesome blessing in my life
now, his strength and patience, support and love have saved my life,
surely true. It’s sure slow going, as you know, but you get what you
wish, true, and it is great to be moving back to a place to grow, to
have potential. I’d like to hear more about you if you’d like, most of
my using was off my own bat so I know few others that understand, I
believe in you, and that you have faith I can be free gives me heart.
Thank you Tink, may peace go in your heart, now and always. Blessed be.

Cheers
Boris and Mandy

Welcome Home!
You’re in the right spot.  All I can do is share my personal
experience, and hope that it helps, in whatever way.  I’ve just
finally convinced the eyes to open, and am in the process of
caffeinating, so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed!
The average craving lasts physically for roughly 20 minutes, I’ve been
told.  I’ve used it as a guideline, occasionally counting off the
seconds until the full twenty minutes was over, using it as a way to
convince myself that if i got through those first 20 minutes, I could
then get through the next  20.  The seconds may pass like individual
years, but if you can put a bunch of 20 minute segments together, you
end up with a day, then 2.  Meditation helps a bit, if you work at it.
There’s one that I was given for panic attacks and the like, and it’s
a flexible meditation excersise, in that you use visually what ever is
in front of you to start.  When driving with my Mom the other day( you
need meditation and benzos to get through a quick jaunt to the store
with her-she’s a frightening driver :])I tried it out, and found that
it distracted me away from the immediate freak out. So here’s what you
can do.  I chose a bird I saw sitting on a telephone pole, and in my
mind went through where the bird was and what the scene around him
was.  Example, (mumbling under my breath while Mom looked sideways at
me with growing concern) The sun is shining on the bird, and on the
bird is a feather, and on the feather is a mite, and on the mite there
is an eye that looks back up in the sky and sees the sun.  Then there
was a rock that lay on the side of the road, and had a bit of moss, in
which lived a flea, who had a leg that stood on the lichen, and stared
back up at the sun.  It worked in that it interrupted my thought
process by forcing me to go into detail about something around me, and
allowed me to seperate the immediate anxiety out for a minute.  It
doesn’t always work, but it’s a good distraction tool, and it can get
silly depending on the flora and fauna in your neck of the woods.  The
sun shines down on the platypus that sits on a rock in the water,
where there is a fish with a digereedoo(sp?) who plays for the koala
that sleeps in the tree above the fish and the platypus?  Try it out,
it may help…at the worse, you’ll end up giggling :]
I’d like to suggest some sort of counselling for both of you.  Without
my group therapy and my individual sessions, I would ber a complete
basket case!  I mean, I still am a basket case, but a much more highly
functioning one.  I think that this should be right on top of your
list of things to do, especially if there’s anyone having suicidal
thoughts.  Having a support system in place for both of you is
imperative, and seeing a counselor of some sort together might help
you through some of the stress that addiction and other things put on
your relationship.
I saw red flags all over the place when you said that you had agreed
to let her use once a month, only speed?  There is no only once a
month, for me anyway.  Stopping your drug use has to be a decision
made by the person that’s trying to stop, in my experience.  Until I
came to the point where I was literally willing to do absolutely
anything to get and stay clean, I was relapsing over and over, and
though the time in between relapses grew after a while, it only takes
once to die.  There’s a saying that I’ve heard repeated to me over and
over, and it makes sense: You have to go afteer your recovery with all
of the vigor and enthusiasm of getting high. I’ve had an incredible
time of it, figuring this one out, and am by far from there, but
getting closer.  She has to want to stop and be willing to do anything
it takes.  It’s that simple and that complicated.  Again, this is just
from my own experiences, but untill I said that I was willing to do
what ever it took to stay clean, and then actually DID what I was
saying I was willing to do, I went through that miserable cycle of
using, a little here and there, then stopping, mild withdrawal,
climbing walls, clean time for a blurb, then right back to it.  I
don’t believe, for me, any way, that it’s possible to just use once a
month.  I’ve never had that work out, and I tried a million times.  I
had to remove myself completely from the scene before I got anywhere,
and still have to avoid certain people and places. Some times, a
snippet of a song, or a smell, little things, will bring me right back
into the heart of it in my mind, but I’ve learned how to deal with it
much more successfully thanks to some wonderful therapists.
Benzo’s have a rotten withdrawal to them as well.  Is that part of the
problem, maybe?
In brief wrap up ( I had two flat tires yesterday and have to go get
them taken care of-ugh!), I want to stress the importance of having an
outside support system for the both of you!! having a place or a
group, or an individual counselor to down load to , as well as getting
feedback, has been the key to my staying clean.  I go a minimum of
once a week, but when I started out, I went to group counseling 3
times a week, and individual sessions twice weekly.  NA has helped to
a certain extent, but that’s a personal issue on my part :]  You can
get an awful lot of info and help from this list, and am glad to see
you made it here!  When I first signed up, I was detoxing off of my
bupe, and having this list helped me through some excedingly rough
patches, and in all sorts of ways.
It would be lovely to hear from Amanda herself, and a bit about you as
well, Boris.  I’ve found that having a voice speak for me ineveitably
ends up with some sort of malfunction, and by making myself face my
issues by speaking up, or typing out, has helped immeasurably.
You can only change yourself, and be there to help another when they
need it, but it has to come from you personally(or it did for me).
Please keep moving forward! You’ve got a lot of good people here who
will help out, if only to listen and respond, as well as point you in
a direction that might be helpful.  It always comes back down to what
you find you’re willing to do for yourself, though.
Welcome home!
love
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing
Date: June 7, 2005 at 5:18:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL@ Ekki!!
Loving it!!!

no need to write egoless emails. the ego could be there for a reason.
why fight it? if you treat it nicely, mabe it will leave you alone or
if it stays it could be used in a nice way. the ego has many disguises,
and the wish to become egoless, selfless, humble etc. could itself be
ego rearing its head. or the ego could be just an abstract concept
based on dubious freudian theories.

lot´s of “coulds” in this email, at least no “shoulds”! my desire to
spread wisdom could be in fact just ego

cheeers ekkki

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Mandy
Date: June 7, 2005 at 5:17:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Boris,
What does Mandy do with her time? I know from past detoxes and staying clean
that I had no direction, hobby, job etc to keep me occupied so inevitably
the ole cravings monster would return because I was doing nothing and I
guess, was bored!  Being used to using drugs for motivation, it’s too easy
to go back to them.
Just a thought…from the crusty recesses of my brain lol.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Boris [mailto:bleshins@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2005 1:52 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] coupla questions

Hey tink,

Thanks for the advise!

You’re right about the counseling. Mandy is seeing a counselor herself
and only once a week, but it would be difficult for me to join her, as I
work full time, and the hours the counselor is available clash with my
work hours. I’ll have to have a bit of a think about that and see what
we can do.. maybe see someone else or I could try get some time of work.
You’re right, it may be time for me to get some feedback on my handling
of the situation.
And from what you said, makes me think once a week is not really
enough..

The only using once a month thing is a tricky one.. The experience has
been that once Mandy hits that wall of cravings they just peak and it is
pretty constant, to the point of loss of control. We tried the zero use
approach, but in the end it wasn’t working (and my questions are about
how to make it work), so the decision was to make use less and less
frequent just for a few months – 2 months, then 2 and half, 3 and then
stop completely. If she used she had to talk to me about it first and
hold out as long as she could – without me monitoring it she would have
quickly spun out of control – she’s done plenty of time on the “I’ll
just do it occasionally” relapse merry-go-round. She only made it over 2
months once. After every slip up there is always the immediate promise
that it won’t happen again, at least for a long time, but when it became
evident that was not going to work we had to be a bit flexible a bit
longer, so Mandy can get her head and her life in order, and be able to
deal with the cravings better. And she has been getting better. Before,
once the cravings started, that was it, they did not go away, just keep
intensifying and staying intense. Now she can get through them a bit,
and they are not as constant, coming and going, intensifying and easing
up just a bit. Still, it’s been a slow improvement and still extremely
hard for her, so she is pretty keen to try Ibogaine.
We are at a stage again now, when Mandy has said no more slip-ups again
and is trying her best. Has been battling through the cravings so far.
She is trying with everything she’s got, I know that for sure.

There is not much to say about me that’s really relevant to the list, I
think. I have not been addicted to any substance besides nicotine, never
used opiates, never anything IV, but have tried most other drugs,
recreationally. Used to like psychedelics, not sure if Ibogaine would be
for me though. I am doing my best to help my girlfriend get through
this. We got together when she was off the H for a couple of months and
things got more serious towards the end of last year.. it was always a
condition of the relationship that she would stay clean, but I’ve had to
be a little flexible about it last few months, because I decided she is
was worth it to me. So we’re battling on together, making slow progress.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, anyways! I’ve found it helpful, and I
think Mandy has too.. come to think of it, you’re the first person who’s
had experience with heroin addiction I’ve really bounced off details of
the situation with. Mandy sometimes talks to some of her friends who’ve
been through it for some support, but I’ve been going through it in a
bit of a vacuum, I guess because I am more of a do it yourself kind of
person, not used to asking for help – not last few years anyway.

I was surprised no one else had anything to reply to my questions..
Noone else had any experience that qualifies you to answer any of my
questions or are people too preoccupied with argueing about Dr Mash (who
sounds pretty cool to me, btw)? If anyone missed it, I was basically
asking what techniques people use to fight the cravings and what your
opinion/experience is with using benzos to fight them off. I guess from
what I’ve read so far and been told the answer to my question re
Ibogaine is that it would help, but still not sure if to go for a full
dose or smaller doses, as Mandy has not been physically addicted for
over year..
I did get one private reply, thanks for that one too!

Here’s a few words from Mandy:
Hi there Tink, Boris showed the email you wrote to him, your reply was
appreciated, well written and very helpful. I’ve begun to try your
picturing  technique, both of us thought it was totally charming, I’ll
let you know how I find it. My cravings come and go, though sometimes
they have me in tears. It’s so hard sometimes there’s a place in me that
wants to give up, it seems impossible to never have that again, I can’t
put myself to sleep because there is people who care {sacred) it would
solve nothing and who knows what’s just around the corner. As well as
being wrong.I have decided not to use once a month or whatever, as it
causes Boris pain, and is unfair as you know he is doing all he can to
get me past this and be healed. It is an awesome blessing in my life
now, his strength and patience, support and love have saved my life,
surely true. It’s sure slow going, as you know, but you get what you
wish, true, and it is great to be moving back to a place to grow, to
have potential. I’d like to hear more about you if you’d like, most of
my using was off my own bat so I know few others that understand, I
believe in you, and that you have faith I can be free gives me heart.
Thank you Tink, may peace go in your heart, now and always. Blessed be.

Cheers
Boris and Mandy

Welcome Home!
You’re in the right spot.  All I can do is share my personal
experience, and hope that it helps, in whatever way.  I’ve just
finally convinced the eyes to open, and am in the process of
caffeinating, so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed!
The average craving lasts physically for roughly 20 minutes, I’ve been
told.  I’ve used it as a guideline, occasionally counting off the
seconds until the full twenty minutes was over, using it as a way to
convince myself that if i got through those first 20 minutes, I could
then get through the next  20.  The seconds may pass like individual
years, but if you can put a bunch of 20 minute segments together, you
end up with a day, then 2.  Meditation helps a bit, if you work at it.
There’s one that I was given for panic attacks and the like, and it’s
a flexible meditation excersise, in that you use visually what ever is
in front of you to start.  When driving with my Mom the other day( you
need meditation and benzos to get through a quick jaunt to the store
with her-she’s a frightening driver :])I tried it out, and found that
it distracted me away from the immediate freak out. So here’s what you
can do.  I chose a bird I saw sitting on a telephone pole, and in my
mind went through where the bird was and what the scene around him
was.  Example, (mumbling under my breath while Mom looked sideways at
me with growing concern) The sun is shining on the bird, and on the
bird is a feather, and on the feather is a mite, and on the mite there
is an eye that looks back up in the sky and sees the sun.  Then there
was a rock that lay on the side of the road, and had a bit of moss, in
which lived a flea, who had a leg that stood on the lichen, and stared
back up at the sun.  It worked in that it interrupted my thought
process by forcing me to go into detail about something around me, and
allowed me to seperate the immediate anxiety out for a minute.  It
doesn’t always work, but it’s a good distraction tool, and it can get
silly depending on the flora and fauna in your neck of the woods.  The
sun shines down on the platypus that sits on a rock in the water,
where there is a fish with a digereedoo(sp?) who plays for the koala
that sleeps in the tree above the fish and the platypus?  Try it out,
it may help…at the worse, you’ll end up giggling :]
I’d like to suggest some sort of counselling for both of you.  Without
my group therapy and my individual sessions, I would ber a complete
basket case!  I mean, I still am a basket case, but a much more highly
functioning one.  I think that this should be right on top of your
list of things to do, especially if there’s anyone having suicidal
thoughts.  Having a support system in place for both of you is
imperative, and seeing a counselor of some sort together might help
you through some of the stress that addiction and other things put on
your relationship.
I saw red flags all over the place when you said that you had agreed
to let her use once a month, only speed?  There is no only once a
month, for me anyway.  Stopping your drug use has to be a decision
made by the person that’s trying to stop, in my experience.  Until I
came to the point where I was literally willing to do absolutely
anything to get and stay clean, I was relapsing over and over, and
though the time in between relapses grew after a while, it only takes
once to die.  There’s a saying that I’ve heard repeated to me over and
over, and it makes sense: You have to go afteer your recovery with all
of the vigor and enthusiasm of getting high. I’ve had an incredible
time of it, figuring this one out, and am by far from there, but
getting closer.  She has to want to stop and be willing to do anything
it takes.  It’s that simple and that complicated.  Again, this is just
from my own experiences, but untill I said that I was willing to do
what ever it took to stay clean, and then actually DID what I was
saying I was willing to do, I went through that miserable cycle of
using, a little here and there, then stopping, mild withdrawal,
climbing walls, clean time for a blurb, then right back to it.  I
don’t believe, for me, any way, that it’s possible to just use once a
month.  I’ve never had that work out, and I tried a million times.  I
had to remove myself completely from the scene before I got anywhere,
and still have to avoid certain people and places. Some times, a
snippet of a song, or a smell, little things, will bring me right back
into the heart of it in my mind, but I’ve learned how to deal with it
much more successfully thanks to some wonderful therapists.
Benzo’s have a rotten withdrawal to them as well.  Is that part of the
problem, maybe?
In brief wrap up ( I had two flat tires yesterday and have to go get
them taken care of-ugh!), I want to stress the importance of having an
outside support system for the both of you!! having a place or a
group, or an individual counselor to down load to , as well as getting
feedback, has been the key to my staying clean.  I go a minimum of
once a week, but when I started out, I went to group counseling 3
times a week, and individual sessions twice weekly.  NA has helped to
a certain extent, but that’s a personal issue on my part :]  You can
get an awful lot of info and help from this list, and am glad to see
you made it here!  When I first signed up, I was detoxing off of my
bupe, and having this list helped me through some excedingly rough
patches, and in all sorts of ways.
It would be lovely to hear from Amanda herself, and a bit about you as
well, Boris.  I’ve found that having a voice speak for me ineveitably
ends up with some sort of malfunction, and by making myself face my
issues by speaking up, or typing out, has helped immeasurably.
You can only change yourself, and be there to help another when they
need it, but it has to come from you personally(or it did for me).
Please keep moving forward! You’ve got a lot of good people here who
will help out, if only to listen and respond, as well as point you in
a direction that might be helpful.  It always comes back down to what
you find you’re willing to do for yourself, though.
Welcome home!
love
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:Jupiter Grading
Date: June 7, 2005 at 5:10:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I bluddy knew sumfink was up!

—–Original Message—–
From: kiersten johnson [mailto:kiers10@mac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2005 1:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] humorous slams

Jupiter just came out of retrograde, baby. yee haw.

I’m feeling  heaps different today…. lighter, happier.. like the
past few
months have been the world on my shoulders.  Wonder what the cosmos is
up
to?

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] So here’s the next installation, true believers…
Date: June 7, 2005 at 5:10:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yayyy TINKS!!  So happy for ya!  Looking forward to hearing allllll about
your excursion!!
Hugs n acidophilus to you!!
Kirk xxxxxxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2005 5:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] So here’s the next installation, true believers…

I have finally managed to semi ground myself, and am living on mangos
and youghurt right now, witha little V8 thrown in for variety.  I have
just experienced the most incredible treatment ever!!! And it didn’t
cost me a brain donation(as per mash).  I have much sleep to catch up
on, and little swimming thingies in front of my eyes still, but it’s
all gravy!!
IBOGAINE ROCKS!!!!back after my nexty snoozey nap and nibble of fruit.
luvto ya
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Raich / Supremes / general fear and Ignorance
Date: June 7, 2005 at 5:08:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s people like this murderer who give mary jane a bad name because they
could use it as a defence. If he truly had no memory I would like to know
what other medical conditions he suffered from.  I knew a man whose mother
(eighty years old) had cancer and used only the most primo buds to help with
her pain.  Her son, a frequent pot smoker, would be rendered catatonic after
smoking his mother’s buds, but his mother was happy and out of pain. This
judge needed more opinions.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: badri maliwal [mailto:bmali@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2005 3:32 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Raich / Supremes / general fear and Ignorance

here is a comment from a blog on Supreme Court . the
comment speaks for itself . Ibo faces the same kind of
mind set …

In 1984, I defended a death penalty eligible double
murderer who could only tell me that he did not
remember the events because he had been smoking
marijuana. (He only got eighty years). Not too long
ago, I asked an oncologist whether he prescribed legal
cannabiol to his cancer patients as an anti-emetic and
whether he had seen symptoms of psychosis. He
practically laughed at me. He said that he prescribed
Zofran — it was a much superior anti-emetic. I
believe that the so-called “medical use” of marijuana
is just so much nonsense. There are too many cases of
marijuana smokers committing horrible crimes after
going into a “disassociative state” by smoking
marijuana. The Supreme Court went the long way to
reach the right decision but regardless the reasoning
the question is why it was not unanimous.

Posted by: Iron Teakettle at June 6, 2005 10:24 PM

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing – The Tamed Ego – The Goddess
Date: June 7, 2005 at 3:47:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dear lee, thanks for your explanation. i never met the divine feminine (only a few mundane ones, but they can be quite nice,too ). sounds interesting though. i´ll order your book. btw is the pinnacle of womans spiritual evolution the contact with the divine feminine, too?
-ekki

Am 07.06.2005 um 21:17 schrieb Lee Albert:

Hi Ekki,

I am tempted to get into a discussion with you on the ego here with a little trepidation.

Just to keep it short I draw a distinction between the tamed ego and the ego that acts outside those bounds as a substitute for the balance between ego and soul. A balance which in turn brings one into contact with the divine feminine (the goddess), a pinnacle of mans spiritual evolution – all of which is my opinion 🙂

When I use the term ego, it is in the way most understand it as the untamed ego.

Of course without the ego I could not post at all!

The tamed ego also does the bidding of the soul.

🙂

Lee

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing – The Tamed Ego – The Goddess
Date: June 7, 2005 at 3:17:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki,

I am tempted to get into a discussion with you on the ego here with a little trepidation.

Just to keep it short I draw a distinction between the tamed ego and the ego that acts outside those bounds as a substitute for the balance between ego and soul. A balance which in turn brings one into contact with the divine feminine (the goddess), a pinnacle of mans spiritual evolution – all of which is my opinion 🙂

When I use the term ego, it is in the way most understand it as the untamed ego.

Of course without the ego I could not post at all!

The tamed ego also does the bidding of the soul.

🙂

Lee

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 07.06.2005 um 15:15 schrieb Lee Albert:
>
> Sorry if my post came across as all knowledgeable. It wasn’t meant to
> be like that. Sometimes I am not as egoless as I would like to be in
> posting – it takes time to arrive at such a state but I work on it
> especially with the feedback I get from this list 🙂 If one has come
> from a life of depending on the ego even after much healing it will
> rear its head from time to time until all the garbage is cleared away.
>

no need to write egoless emails. the ego could be there for a reason.
why fight it? if you treat it nicely, mabe it will leave you alone or
if it stays it could be used in a nice way. the ego has many disguises,
and the wish to become egoless, selfless, humble etc. could itself be
ego rearing its head. or the ego could be just an abstract concept
based on dubious freudian theories.

lot´s of “coulds” in this email, at least no “shoulds”! my desire to
spread wisdom could be in fact just ego

cheeers ekkki

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] So here’s the next installation, true believers…
Date: June 7, 2005 at 1:37:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have finally managed to semi ground myself, and am living on mangos
and youghurt right now, witha little V8 thrown in for variety.  I have
just experienced the most incredible treatment ever!!! And it didn’t
cost me a brain donation(as per mash).  I have much sleep to catch up
on, and little swimming thingies in front of my eyes still, but it’s
all gravy!!
IBOGAINE ROCKS!!!!back after my nexty snoozey nap and nibble of fruit.
luvto ya
tink

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing
Date: June 7, 2005 at 1:32:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 07.06.2005 um 15:15 schrieb Lee Albert:

Sorry if my post came across as all knowledgeable. It wasn’t meant to be like that. Sometimes I am not as egoless as I would like to be in posting – it takes time to arrive at such a state but I work on it especially with the feedback I get from this list 🙂 If one has come from a life of depending on the ego even after much healing it will rear its head from time to time until all the garbage is cleared away.

no need to write egoless emails. the ego could be there for a reason. why fight it? if you treat it nicely, mabe it will leave you alone or if it stays it could be used in a nice way. the ego has many disguises, and the wish to become egoless, selfless, humble etc. could itself be ego rearing its head. or the ego could be just an abstract concept based on dubious freudian theories.

lot´s of “coulds” in this email, at least no “shoulds”! my desire to spread wisdom could be in fact just ego

cheeers ekkki

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee
Date: June 7, 2005 at 10:56:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Tink,

Out of curiosity what do you think the message about ibogaine was coming from that episode?

Just to clarify. I watched it in Spanish and added in my post I was not sure if I understood what I had seen as I had difficulty with the Spanish. Dana kindly clarified my questions on what I thought I heard.

Lee

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
speaking of which, i watched that csi episode on ibogaine. i should’ve
kept tabs on how many times i said “no freaking way..”

On 6/5/05, tink wrote:
> tink has declared dana a GAWD!!!
> get it straight :}
>
> On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:
> >
> > Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
> > about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
> > with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?
> >
> > You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
> > writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
> > say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?
> >
> > Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
> > distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
> > try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
> > chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
> > god.
> >
> > .:vector:.
> >
> >
> > — sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> >
> > > >I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
> > > experience
> > > and just saying this and that….
> > >
> > > yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
> > > and
> > > another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.
> > >
> > > I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
> > > every time
> > > it was a different experience.
> > >
> > > talking about both HCL and extract.
> > >
> > > some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
> > > trip,
> > > others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
> > > you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
> > > and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.
> > >
> > > you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
> > > which
> > > will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
> > > for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
> > > spiritual
> > > experience without risking almost anything .
> > >
> > > no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > > >
> > > > I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
> > > One
> > > > with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
> > > the other
> > > > with “pure” ibogaine.
> > > >
> > > > Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
> > > ibogaine
> > > > on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
> > > believe that
> > > > starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
> > > safer
> > > > route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
> > > spritual
> > > > considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
> > > “right
> > > > here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
> > > personally I
> > > > would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
> > > it
> > > > appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
> > > death I
> > > > am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
> > > sandwich while
> > > > unsupervised. Maybe there are others?
> > > >
> > > > For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
> > > alkaloids
> > > > lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
> > > before
> > > > on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
> > > interruption
> > > > serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
> > > which
> > > > contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
> > > extract –
> > > > in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
> > > for
> > > > first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.
> > > >
> > > > Of course studies are needed to prove anything.
> > > >
> > > > What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
> > > lacks a
> > > > higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
> > > further. A
> > > > few topics that might be considered are:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Treatment protocols such as ……
> > > > 2. Advanced Screening
> > > > 3. …… and so on…
> > > >
> > > > Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?
> > > >
> > > > All the best to you,
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > > >>
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
> > > > very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
> > > > dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
> > > > I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
> > > better
> > > > take the ibo rectally.
> > > >
> > > > Sara
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
> > > are
> > > >> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
> > > that
> > > >> there
> > > >> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
> > > aware
> > > >> of
> > > >> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
> > > the
> > > >> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
> > > Only
> > > >> you
> > > >> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
> > > take
> > > >> care
> > > >> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
> > > >>
> > > >> Nick
> > > >> —–Original Message—–
> > > >> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
> > > >> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
> > > >> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
> > > to
> > > >> have
> > > >> started.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
> > > >> yet.
> > > >> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
> > > a
> > > >> day.
> > > >> I
> > > >> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
> > > >> amount
> > > >> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
> > > am 41
> > > >> and
> > > >> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
> > > with is
> > > >> I
> > > >> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
> > > more
> > > >> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
> > > needed to
> > > >> get
> > > >> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
> > > to
> > > >> sleep.
> > > >> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
> > > a
> > > >> day.
> > > >> It
> > > >> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
> > > me hot
> > > >> and
> > > >> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
> > > >> hospital
> > > >> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
> > > ulcer
> > > >> was
> > > >> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
> > > knew
> > > >> that
> > > >> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
> > > >> believe
> > > >> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
> > > that
> > > >> I
> > > >> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
> > > >> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
> > > that you
> > > >> can.
> > > >> I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
> > > I
> > > >> have
> > > >> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
> > > detox
> > > >> from
> > > >> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
> > > >> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
> > > point. Let
> > > >> me
> > > >> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
> > > I am
> > > >> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
> > > people. I
> > > >> dont
> > > >> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
> > > >> treatment?
> > > >> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
> > > as in
> > > >> alot
> > > >> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
> > > these
> > > >> ideas
> > > >> of
> > > >> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
> > > that
> > > >> went
> > > >> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
> > > easy in
> > > >> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
> > > What was
> > > >> the
> > > >> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
> > > your
> > > >> mood?
> > > >> I
> > > >> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
> > > someone
> > > >> on
> > > >> the list that sounded normal like you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> Steve
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > > > [%]
> > > >
> > >
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
> > > over a
> > > > six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > > those
> > > > already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > >
> > >
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started. – Extract/HCL
Date: June 7, 2005 at 10:30:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Slowone,
Just to clarify.
The post I made was to do with safety for initial high dose usage as opposed to spiritual experiences.
Lee

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
My experience is that indra and my own extact of rootbark from Dan
Lieberman lasted 10% or so longer and caused more ataxia than pure
ibogaine, for a given level of effect. I believe that the
difference would be minor for a relatively healthy person getting
off of opiates. I agree with Sara that the iboga/ibogaine
experience varies so much from time to time anyway that it is
impossible to generalise about which form gives better insights.

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:36:02 -0700 sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>>I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no

>experience
>and just saying this and that….
>
>yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the
>greatest and
>another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.
>
>I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
>every time
>it was a different experience.
>
>talking about both HCL and extract.
>
>some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a
>boring trip,
>others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
>you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
>and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.
>
>you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
>which
>will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
>for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
>spiritual
>experience without risking almost anything .
>
>no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of
>treatment. One
>> with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and

>the other
>> with “pure” ibogaine.
>>
>> Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
>ibogaine
>> on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
>believe that
>> starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a

>safer
>> route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
>spritual
>> considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
>”right
>> here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
>personally I
>> would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract
>as it
>> appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The
>only death I
>> am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
>sandwich while
>> unsupervised. Maybe there are others?
>>
>> For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
>alkaloids
>> lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already
>posted before
>> on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
>interruption
>> serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing
>compound which
>> contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
>extract –
>> in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this
>may, for
>> first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.
>>
>> Of course studies are needed to prove anything.
>>
>> What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there

>lacks a
>> higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
>further. A
>> few topics that might be considered are:
>>
>> 1. Treatment protocols such as ……
>> 2. Advanced Screening
>> 3. …… and so on…
>>
>> Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?
>>
>> All the best to you,
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>> sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In

>a
>> very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
>> dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
>> I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer
>they better
>> take the ibo rectally.
>>
>> Sara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine.
>There are
>>> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take
>it that
>>> there
>>> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to

>be aware
>>> of
>>> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking
>at the
>>> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a
>decision. Only
>>> you
>>> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine
>will take
>>> care
>>> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
>>>
>>> Nick
>>> —–Original Message—–
>>> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
>>> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I
>seemed to
>>> have
>>> started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
>>> yet.
>>> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3
>mtimes a
>>> day.
>>> I
>>> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and
>the
>>> amount
>>> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope
>so. I am 41
>>> and
>>> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had
>problems with is
>>> I
>>> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being
>even more
>>> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
>needed to
>>> get
>>> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to
>go to
>>> sleep.
>>> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was
>getting a
>>> day.
>>> It
>>> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro
>makes me hot
>>> and
>>> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of
>that
>>> hospital
>>> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though
>the ulcer
>>> was
>>> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it
>but I knew
>>> that
>>> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway

>I
>>> believe
>>> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only
>thing that
>>> I
>>> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am
>self
>>> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
>that you
>>> can.
>>> I have been right the last few times that I had something come
>up) I
>>> have
>>> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do

>detox
>>> from
>>> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is
>some
>>> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
>point. Let
>>> me
>>> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power
>and I am
>>> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
>people. I
>>> dont
>>> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
>>> treatment?
>>> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over
>reacting as in
>>> alot
>>> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
>these
>>> ideas
>>> of
>>> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone

>that
>>> went
>>> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was
>it easy in
>>> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
>What was
>>> the
>>> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
>your
>>> mood?
>>> I
>>> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from

>someone
>>> on
>>> the list that sounded normal like you.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> /]=————————————————————–

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>——-=[/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine

>over a
>> six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
>> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>>
>>
>> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and
>spiritual
>> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list
>for those
>> already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> /]=————————————————————–

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] coupla questions
Date: June 7, 2005 at 9:51:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey tink,

Thanks for the advise!

You’re right about the counseling. Mandy is seeing a counselor herself
and only once a week, but it would be difficult for me to join her, as I
work full time, and the hours the counselor is available clash with my
work hours. I’ll have to have a bit of a think about that and see what
we can do.. maybe see someone else or I could try get some time of work.
You’re right, it may be time for me to get some feedback on my handling
of the situation.
And from what you said, makes me think once a week is not really
enough..

The only using once a month thing is a tricky one.. The experience has
been that once Mandy hits that wall of cravings they just peak and it is
pretty constant, to the point of loss of control. We tried the zero use
approach, but in the end it wasn’t working (and my questions are about
how to make it work), so the decision was to make use less and less
frequent just for a few months – 2 months, then 2 and half, 3 and then
stop completely. If she used she had to talk to me about it first and
hold out as long as she could – without me monitoring it she would have
quickly spun out of control – she’s done plenty of time on the “I’ll
just do it occasionally” relapse merry-go-round. She only made it over 2
months once. After every slip up there is always the immediate promise
that it won’t happen again, at least for a long time, but when it became
evident that was not going to work we had to be a bit flexible a bit
longer, so Mandy can get her head and her life in order, and be able to
deal with the cravings better. And she has been getting better. Before,
once the cravings started, that was it, they did not go away, just keep
intensifying and staying intense. Now she can get through them a bit,
and they are not as constant, coming and going, intensifying and easing
up just a bit. Still, it’s been a slow improvement and still extremely
hard for her, so she is pretty keen to try Ibogaine.
We are at a stage again now, when Mandy has said no more slip-ups again
and is trying her best. Has been battling through the cravings so far.
She is trying with everything she’s got, I know that for sure.

There is not much to say about me that’s really relevant to the list, I
think. I have not been addicted to any substance besides nicotine, never
used opiates, never anything IV, but have tried most other drugs,
recreationally. Used to like psychedelics, not sure if Ibogaine would be
for me though. I am doing my best to help my girlfriend get through
this. We got together when she was off the H for a couple of months and
things got more serious towards the end of last year.. it was always a
condition of the relationship that she would stay clean, but I’ve had to
be a little flexible about it last few months, because I decided she is
was worth it to me. So we’re battling on together, making slow progress.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, anyways! I’ve found it helpful, and I
think Mandy has too.. come to think of it, you’re the first person who’s
had experience with heroin addiction I’ve really bounced off details of
the situation with. Mandy sometimes talks to some of her friends who’ve
been through it for some support, but I’ve been going through it in a
bit of a vacuum, I guess because I am more of a do it yourself kind of
person, not used to asking for help – not last few years anyway.

I was surprised no one else had anything to reply to my questions..
Noone else had any experience that qualifies you to answer any of my
questions or are people too preoccupied with argueing about Dr Mash (who
sounds pretty cool to me, btw)? If anyone missed it, I was basically
asking what techniques people use to fight the cravings and what your
opinion/experience is with using benzos to fight them off. I guess from
what I’ve read so far and been told the answer to my question re
Ibogaine is that it would help, but still not sure if to go for a full
dose or smaller doses, as Mandy has not been physically addicted for
over year..
I did get one private reply, thanks for that one too!

Here’s a few words from Mandy:
Hi there Tink, Boris showed the email you wrote to him, your reply was
appreciated, well written and very helpful. I’ve begun to try your
picturing  technique, both of us thought it was totally charming, I’ll
let you know how I find it. My cravings come and go, though sometimes
they have me in tears. It’s so hard sometimes there’s a place in me that
wants to give up, it seems impossible to never have that again, I can’t
put myself to sleep because there is people who care {sacred) it would
solve nothing and who knows what’s just around the corner. As well as
being wrong.I have decided not to use once a month or whatever, as it
causes Boris pain, and is unfair as you know he is doing all he can to
get me past this and be healed. It is an awesome blessing in my life
now, his strength and patience, support and love have saved my life,
surely true. It’s sure slow going, as you know, but you get what you
wish, true, and it is great to be moving back to a place to grow, to
have potential. I’d like to hear more about you if you’d like, most of
my using was off my own bat so I know few others that understand, I
believe in you, and that you have faith I can be free gives me heart.
Thank you Tink, may peace go in your heart, now and always. Blessed be.

Cheers
Boris and Mandy

Welcome Home!
You’re in the right spot.  All I can do is share my personal
experience, and hope that it helps, in whatever way.  I’ve just
finally convinced the eyes to open, and am in the process of
caffeinating, so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed!
The average craving lasts physically for roughly 20 minutes, I’ve been
told.  I’ve used it as a guideline, occasionally counting off the
seconds until the full twenty minutes was over, using it as a way to
convince myself that if i got through those first 20 minutes, I could
then get through the next  20.  The seconds may pass like individual
years, but if you can put a bunch of 20 minute segments together, you
end up with a day, then 2.  Meditation helps a bit, if you work at it.
There’s one that I was given for panic attacks and the like, and it’s
a flexible meditation excersise, in that you use visually what ever is
in front of you to start.  When driving with my Mom the other day( you
need meditation and benzos to get through a quick jaunt to the store
with her-she’s a frightening driver :])I tried it out, and found that
it distracted me away from the immediate freak out. So here’s what you
can do.  I chose a bird I saw sitting on a telephone pole, and in my
mind went through where the bird was and what the scene around him
was.  Example, (mumbling under my breath while Mom looked sideways at
me with growing concern) The sun is shining on the bird, and on the
bird is a feather, and on the feather is a mite, and on the mite there
is an eye that looks back up in the sky and sees the sun.  Then there
was a rock that lay on the side of the road, and had a bit of moss, in
which lived a flea, who had a leg that stood on the lichen, and stared
back up at the sun.  It worked in that it interrupted my thought
process by forcing me to go into detail about something around me, and
allowed me to seperate the immediate anxiety out for a minute.  It
doesn’t always work, but it’s a good distraction tool, and it can get
silly depending on the flora and fauna in your neck of the woods.  The
sun shines down on the platypus that sits on a rock in the water,
where there is a fish with a digereedoo(sp?) who plays for the koala
that sleeps in the tree above the fish and the platypus?  Try it out,
it may help…at the worse, you’ll end up giggling :]
I’d like to suggest some sort of counselling for both of you.  Without
my group therapy and my individual sessions, I would ber a complete
basket case!  I mean, I still am a basket case, but a much more highly
functioning one.  I think that this should be right on top of your
list of things to do, especially if there’s anyone having suicidal
thoughts.  Having a support system in place for both of you is
imperative, and seeing a counselor of some sort together might help
you through some of the stress that addiction and other things put on
your relationship.
I saw red flags all over the place when you said that you had agreed
to let her use once a month, only speed?  There is no only once a
month, for me anyway.  Stopping your drug use has to be a decision
made by the person that’s trying to stop, in my experience.  Until I
came to the point where I was literally willing to do absolutely
anything to get and stay clean, I was relapsing over and over, and
though the time in between relapses grew after a while, it only takes
once to die.  There’s a saying that I’ve heard repeated to me over and
over, and it makes sense: You have to go afteer your recovery with all
of the vigor and enthusiasm of getting high. I’ve had an incredible
time of it, figuring this one out, and am by far from there, but
getting closer.  She has to want to stop and be willing to do anything
it takes.  It’s that simple and that complicated.  Again, this is just
from my own experiences, but untill I said that I was willing to do
what ever it took to stay clean, and then actually DID what I was
saying I was willing to do, I went through that miserable cycle of
using, a little here and there, then stopping, mild withdrawal,
climbing walls, clean time for a blurb, then right back to it.  I
don’t believe, for me, any way, that it’s possible to just use once a
month.  I’ve never had that work out, and I tried a million times.  I
had to remove myself completely from the scene before I got anywhere,
and still have to avoid certain people and places. Some times, a
snippet of a song, or a smell, little things, will bring me right back
into the heart of it in my mind, but I’ve learned how to deal with it
much more successfully thanks to some wonderful therapists.
Benzo’s have a rotten withdrawal to them as well.  Is that part of the
problem, maybe?
In brief wrap up ( I had two flat tires yesterday and have to go get
them taken care of-ugh!), I want to stress the importance of having an
outside support system for the both of you!! having a place or a
group, or an individual counselor to down load to , as well as getting
feedback, has been the key to my staying clean.  I go a minimum of
once a week, but when I started out, I went to group counseling 3
times a week, and individual sessions twice weekly.  NA has helped to
a certain extent, but that’s a personal issue on my part :]  You can
get an awful lot of info and help from this list, and am glad to see
you made it here!  When I first signed up, I was detoxing off of my
bupe, and having this list helped me through some excedingly rough
patches, and in all sorts of ways.
It would be lovely to hear from Amanda herself, and a bit about you as
well, Boris.  I’ve found that having a voice speak for me ineveitably
ends up with some sort of malfunction, and by making myself face my
issues by speaking up, or typing out, has helped immeasurably.
You can only change yourself, and be there to help another when they
need it, but it has to come from you personally(or it did for me).
Please keep moving forward! You’ve got a lot of good people here who
will help out, if only to listen and respond, as well as point you in
a direction that might be helpful.  It always comes back down to what
you find you’re willing to do for yourself, though.
Welcome home!
love
tink

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing
Date: June 7, 2005 at 9:15:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Vector,

Sorry if I came across as defensive. I was having a bad day and also i felt my posts were being blasted without being properly looked at. Considering the deaths that are taking place I find that hard to understand. I should also add that in my posts, my website and my book I constantly emphasis that i work with the psychospirituality of ibogaine and not the addiction interruption. Perhaps I need to put a disclaimer at the end of my posts 🙂 That said I dont rule out the day that I may open a center for addiction treatment.

I want to also add I have “also” spoken to a well respected provider about 3 years ago regarding the extract and his opinion was that the synchronisity of the other alkaloids help tame the experience. (I have also had contact with a small number of people who have used the extract only.) Based on my own experience and of some others I think there is something to be considered. There are also the charts I pointed out to you. For me, based on personal experience and that of some others, there is a basis for an opinion to be formed.

www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt  (pages Diapositiva 8 – Diapositiva 12)

Sorry if my post came across as all knowledgeable. It wasn’t meant to be like that. Sometimes I am not as egoless as I would like to be in posting – it takes time to arrive at such a state but I work on it especially with the feedback I get from this list 🙂 If one has come from a life of depending on the ego even after much healing it will rear its head from time to time until all the garbage is cleared away.

I do btw work with people for psycho spiritual use of ibogaine and I think that the main difference between that and addiction work is the added complication of treating the addiction and the health of the individual. Yet, the effects on a physiological level are not so dissimilar as to preclude my being able to observe safety issues and certainly to be concerned about them.

In case it comes across that I am being contradictory on my posts I will restate my opinion on the extract and the HCL in brief:

For ongoing work I am of the opinion that the HCL is more assured and reliable. It also is more likely to achive global acceptance based on the science which is being carried out to prove its efficacy and safety.

However, for addiction interruption where the health of the individual is more precarious I am of the opinion that the extract is possibly safer if one seeks an initial high dose – this has nothing to do with ongoing small dose pain releasing work. I certainly would consider it if I were seeking addiction interruption.

Personally I think eboga users should begin on low doses if possible to acclimatise the body. When I recieved the message about beginners, give less in my own session about 3 years ago, I took it to mean in terms of money as I knew a high dose was required to achieve a breaking open of the head and at the time I was concerned about its cost. The message confused me a lot but with time I have begun to realise from the safety issues and the personal experience I have had of a reduction in the noticeable effects of ibogaine on the body, that it refers to dosage. That is why I use the dictum: Beginners, Begin Low.

http://www.my-eboga.com/safety.html

There are a whole tier of issues imo regarding the eboga experience and the release of pain which is why I suggest for ongoing use the HCL – these observations are based on my own ongoing use. Apart from anything else the concentration of ibogaine is assured and I see ibogaine as the engine of the process.

Of course these are just my opinions and if they offend some people I am sorry for any offense caused.

I hope that clears things and thank you for your response. I am very cool with it.

🙂 Lee

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

I like reading your posts Lee I think your one of the more interesting
freaks here 🙂 My comment and the part where I agreed with Sara is what
you answered, I asked if you had ever really worked with anyone else
using ibogaine or detoxed drug addicts, you said no. Then what you’re
writing are your own experiences and assuming it will work the same way
for everyone else, which is where Sara said everyone is different and
saying everyone is the same and it will work the same is bla bla bla 😉

I don’t feel that any discussion is groundless, even if it is that’s
never stopped anyone from posting it here 🙂 my comment was you don’t
make it clear that what you’re writing are ideas that sound good
instead of knowledge you have because you’ve tried this with anyone
else

You say
“talking with at least one other who has used the extract (as well as
used the HCL) to break an addiction I am off the opinion that the
extract is easier for initial use. Their opinion was also based not
only on themself but on talking to someone else with experience.”

My friend’s, friend’s friend said :0

That’s not experience but you present it that way. I’ve never replied
to one of your messages about spirituality but I do read them, you’re
writing your own opinions and experience some of it is very
interesting, this is the only message of your’s I’ve ever had a comment
on it wasn’t to attack you. You don’t make it clear that it is personal
experience, you generalize it like you’ve tried it with other people,
that is my whole comment.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert wrote:

> Hi Vector,
>
> As far as I am aware I do make it clear in my posts that I am
> speaking from personal experience hoping that it can advance the
> discussion in a useful way. I don’t treat drug addiction and my
> interest is in the psychospirituality of eboga. I have stated this
> many times. Yet I do study this list for practical information I can
> include on my web site to help those who cannot afford to pay for
> treatment:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/healing.html
>
> I minimised the spiritual posts as it did not seem appropriate but I
> still try to make useful input where it seems appropriate.
>
> If I have issues that are toubling me I work with myself via the use
> of eboga and document what I experience and the way in which I find
> healing. That is what i do and I post what I believe to be the case.
> My book also outlines many of my ideas. I don’t ask anyone to believe
> anything I write. I simply try to make constructive suggestions,
> hopfully generating useful discussion and ultimately moving the
> discussion forward to dealing with healing which is far different
> than pure addiction interruption.
>
> Regarding the extract and HCL. I have used the extract about 3 or 4
> times on myself and based on those experiences and talking with at
> least one other who has used the extract (as well as used the HCL) to
> break an addiction I am off the opinion that the extract is easier
> for initial use. Their opinion was also based not only on themself
> but on talking to someone else with experience.
>
> The reason I say that one should start low and then move to higher
> doses is based on information I recieved via an eboga session of
> 16mg/kg as well as observations on this list, the noting of deaths
> and general intuition based on ongoing use.
>
> If you feel that my suggestion is groundless then perhaps you should
> refer to this:
>
> www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt
>
> where obviously something is going on – see pages 8 to 12.
>
> While of course there may be exceptions there may also be a rule. And
> if the rule helps someone who fears there are in serious risk of
> death then I think the discussion will have been worth it.
>
> This is a discussion I was hoping could be explored further in the
> midst of all this anger that frankly imo could better be dealt with
> by low-dose intention driven eboga sessions with the aim of
> understanding why these feelings are so strong and thus hopfully
> freeing their true source.
>
> Wishing you well.
>
> Lee
>
> PS Please, can you post what exactly I have changed in my writing and
> allow me the decency of a proper discussion with you? I think showing
> respect to all on this list is fundamental to its success.
>
>
> Vector Vector wrote:
>
> Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
> about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
> with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?
>
> You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
> writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what
> you
> say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?
>
> Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
> distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you
> should
> try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are
> god’s
> chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal
> as
> god.
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
> — sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
> > >I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
> > experience
> > and just saying this and that….
> >
> > yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
> > and
> > another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.
> >
> > I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
> > every time
> > it was a different experience.
> >
> > talking about both HCL and extract.
> >
> > some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a
> boring
> > trip,
> > others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
> > you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
> > and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.
> >
> > you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
> > which
> > will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
> > for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
> > spiritual
> > experience without risking almost anything .
> >
> > no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> > >
> > > I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of
> treatment.
> > One
> > > with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
> > the other
> > > with “pure” ibogaine.
> > >
> > > Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
> > ibogaine
> > > on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
> > believe that
> > > starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
> > safer
> > > route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
> > spritual
> > > considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
> > “right
> > > here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
> > personally I
> > > would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract
> as
> > it
> > > appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
> > death I
> > > am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
> > sandwich while
> > > unsupervised. Maybe there are others?
> > >
> > > For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
> > alkaloids
> > > lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already
> posted
> > before
> > > on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
> > interruption
> > > serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing
> compound
> > which
> > > contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
> > extract –
> > > in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this
> may,
> > for
> > > first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.
> > >
> > > Of course studies are needed to prove anything.
> > >
> > > What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
> > lacks a
> > > higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
> > further. A
> > > few topics that might be considered are:
> > >
> > > 1. Treatment protocols such as ……
> > > 2. Advanced Screening
> > > 3. …… and so on…
> > >
> > > Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?
> > >
> > > All the best to you,
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > >
> > > sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > >>
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In
> a
> > > very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
> > > dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
> > > I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
> > better
> > > take the ibo rectally.
> > >
> > > Sara
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
> > are
> > >> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take
> it
> > that
> > >> there
> > >> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to
> be
> > aware
> > >> of
> > >> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
> > the
> > >> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a
> decision.
> > Only
> > >> you
> > >> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine
> will
> > take
> > >> care
> > >> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
> > >>
> > >> Nick
> > >> —–Original Message—–
> > >> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
> > >> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
> > >> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I
> seemed
> > to
> > >> have
> > >> started.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
> > >> yet.
> > >> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3
> mtimes
> > a
> > >> day.
> > >> I
> > >> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and
> the
> > >> amount
> > >> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so.
> I
> > am 41
> > >> and
> > >> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
> > with is
> > >> I
> > >> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being
> even
> > more
> > >> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
> > needed to
> > >> get
> > >> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
> > to
> > >> sleep.
> > >> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was
> getting
> > a
> > >> day.
> > >> It
> > >> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro
> makes
> > me hot
> > >> and
> > >> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of
> that
> > >> hospital
> > >> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though
> the
> > ulcer
> > >> was
> > >> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but
> I
> > knew
> > >> that
> > >> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway
> I
> > >> believe
> > >> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only
> thing
> > that
> > >> I
> > >> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am
> self
> > >> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
> > that you
> > >> can.
> > >> I have been right the last few times that I had something come
> up)
> > I
> > >> have
> > >> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
> > detox
> > >> from
> > >> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is
> some
> > >> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
> > point. Let
> > >> me
> > >> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power
> and
> > I am
> > >> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
> > people. I
> > >> dont
> > >> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
> > >> treatment?
> > >> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
> > as in
> > >> alot
> > >> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
> > these
> > >> ideas
> > >> of
> > >> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
> > that
> > >> went
> > >> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
> > easy in
> > >> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
> > What was
> > >> the
> > >> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
> > your
> > >> mood?
> > >> I
> > >> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
> > someone
> > >> on
> > >> the list that sounded normal like you.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > [%]
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
> > over a
> > > six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > >
> > >
> > > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list
> for
> > those
> > > already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 7, 2005 at 12:06:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks
————– Original message ————–

>
> It was mostly a joke Steve 🙂
>
> Patrick is a very unique person 😉 He was a lifetime junkie except he
> has like a 300IQ and talks to god now. Mash introduces him as her son,
> I’m sure being a 7 foot tall pumped up alpha male prettyboy might have
> something to do with her great love for him too 😉 I’m going to use my
> best judgment and stop now 🙂
>
> You say you’re talking to someone at Mash’s office who says they were a
> junkie but doesn’t know what hydrocodone, lortab or percoset are. I’d
> wonder about that 😉
>
> I don’t really know any of the other people you’re talking about, so
> why don’t you call other places and find what you want to do. That
> wasn’t a joke, I’m sure you will eventually find someone who tells you
> what you want to hear 🙂 I honestly doubt you’re going to die anywhere
> from doing ibogaine. You probably have a bigger chance of dying by
> driving your car to work while on your meds.
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Vector,
> > I am not sure what you were saying in your last post. I
> > think that you referring to the people that answers the phones at her
> > place. They freak you out. It may be cool to talkjunkie talk with a
> > lifetime junkie. But I am a guy that has no drug friends, never have
> > and this was something that anyone that knows me would have said that
> > there is no way that Steve would have become addicted to pain
> > killers.
> >
> > So when I call a place that I am going to spend alot of money and I
> > an worried about the safety of the drug, I dont want to get to talk
> > to an exjunkie that is talking “drug lingo” You know kinda of like
> > this.’ Man this stuff is some good shit it will blow you away, it is
> > a trip you will love this fuckin stuff”. Now dont get me wrong I want
> > to talk to people that have experienced this. But in my opinion I
> > would have been alot more comfortable if a good spoken secretary
> > answered and then had a professional call to discuss this and that
> > point give me some junkies numbers to talk to. I wouldnt have them
> > man the phones if it was me.
> >
> > By the way when we talked he was asking me to tell him about my
> > problem and I told him that I was addicted to hydrocodone. He said
> > “Hydrocodone I am not sure what that is” I said you know
> > lortab,percocet and he said. ” Not sure what that is but that shit
> > sounds good” and I am like wait a minute this is the place that
> > supposed to be the only legitimate facility and this is what I got. I
> > said “HOLY SHIT”
> >
> > So I got him to give me Dr Mash nu mber and when I called her she
> > was yelling at someone in the background while driving and I am
> > like”HOLY DOUBLE SHIT”
> > She had a Nurse name Rosetta call me and she was the only one that
> > seemed normal and sounded like a business setting. She sent me the
> > medical protocol and the woman at the clinic looked at me like I was
> > crazy. She said we are not set up to even to do all this. So I say
> > “HOLY TRIPLE SHIT”
> >
> > Now last but not least I called the clinic in Mexico that I was told
> > that Debra Mash owns and I get to talk to another junkie. He said
> > good news you dont have to do the medical protocol, we do it here. I
> > am thinking I am flying to Cancun not knowing if I am ok to do this
> > and he says “Oh you will be ok and never ask me one question about
> > me, my health, age, nothing. He also said that this will be the
> > easiest thing that you have ever done. You will be a new man in 4
> > days. You know the saying anything that is too good to be true its
> > probably not. He made it sound like a vacation. So Vector your
> > diagnosis of me maybe right I was just wanting to give you more of
> > what I have dealt with so that you can see why I feel so unsure of
> > what the hell to do.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
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>

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The Monster Mash….
Date: June 6, 2005 at 11:57:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pretty  cool!!!

————– Original message ————–
Apologies to all mentioned here, NO offence intended, only light-hearted fun and an opportunity I could not resist in taking.
Also, apologies to Bobby “Boris” Pickett for mutating his one hit wonder song.

Monster Mash (ode to Doctor Mash)

I was shooting up in my lab, late one night
When my computer came on with an eerie sight
It said “Ibogaine use is on the rise”
And suddenly to my surprise….

I saw Doctor Mash
“Come do the Monster Mash”
With Doctor Mash
It is a graveyard smash!
Come to Doctor Mash
I’ll have you fixed in a flash!
Come do the Mash
Come see Doctor Mash
(wahhhh ooooooooo)

From my drug lab in Brooklyn East
To Mexico where the Mexicans feast
The junkies all came from their humble abodes
To get a jolt from Mashes Iboga Toads!

They did the Mash
Come do the Monster Mash
With Doctor Mash
It is a graveyard smash
They did the Mash
She’ll have you fixed in a flash
They did the Mash
They did the Monster Mash
(wahhhh ooooo)

Out in reception, the phone did ring
Seems Steve was troubled by just one thing
He opened his mouth and took a big risk
And said “Whatever happens if I go amiss??”

Ask Doctor Mash!
You ask Doctor Mash
Just ask Doctor Mash
You’ll be a graveyard smash
Ask Doctor Mash
She’ll have you relaxed in a flash
Ask Doctor Mash
Come ask our Doctor Mash

The junkies were having fun
The party had just begun
The Ibogaine was all takun
OH SHIT I WANT MY MUM!!!!

The scene was trippy, all were diggin’ the visuals
The pasts flashin’ by, man, really dismal
Then one by one, the junkies all dropped dead!
And Mash came along and chopped off all their heads!!

They saw Dr Mash!
The saw the Doctor Mash
She’s Doctor Mash
She is a graveyard smash
They saw Doctor Mash
“I’ll have you fixed in a flash!”
They Doctor Mash
They saw the Doctor Mash

I woke up all groggy, not sure of the time
I opened my mouth and out came a whine!
These hands and this body, heyyy they’re not mine!!!!
Oh God, Doctor Mash is making Frankensteins!!!!!!!

Then you can Mash
Then you can Monster Mash
The Monster Mash
And do her graveyard smash
Then you can Mash
You’ll catch on in a flash
Then you can Mash
Then you can do the Doctor Mash.

6 June 2005  Captain Kirk
(Please feel free to add lyrics!)

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 6, 2005 at 11:54:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didnt mean any harm. I just have never been around many drug people and this is new. I would have flt more comfortable if it idnt sound like they were practising on people in he backyard. Thats all. Didnt mean to offend anyone!!! I am scared!!! Some people that have been life long junkies may be at the point that it might not scare them more than me. I just wonder if I trying to kill a knat with a hammer is this over doing it and go maybe with bupe, thats all dont be offended please
Steve
————– Original message ————–
Dude, if you are looking for a good spoken secretary then you better find something besides Ibogaine to get you off of drugs. Read the Mindvox homepage. This is Patrick’s list.  This truly is the last exit for the damned, but it is the best your going to get. You don’t want to hear junkie talk? I thought that was hilarious. Are you sure your really a junkie, and if you are maybe you ought to except the fact that you have gotten here for a reason. I was real serious when I first came here and got slammed a little more than you are now. People might take O fence at what you are impying. What me? I’m not like them, I am totaly rite, I just eat too many pills. WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY too many. You could do a lot worse than become friends with the people here. They saved my ass time and again. Lighten up and except the love cummin’ to ya. It beats shooting up in a toilet (junky humor) I know ’cause I done it. Do I sound like a dick? I don’t mean to be. I joke all the time, I’m serious.  Randy

From: badri maliwal <bmali@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Raich / Supremes / general fear and Ignorance
Date: June 6, 2005 at 11:32:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

here is a comment from a blog on Supreme Court . the
comment speaks for itself . Ibo faces the same kind of
mind set …

In 1984, I defended a death penalty eligible double
murderer who could only tell me that he did not
remember the events because he had been smoking
marijuana. (He only got eighty years). Not too long
ago, I asked an oncologist whether he prescribed legal
cannabiol to his cancer patients as an anti-emetic and
whether he had seen symptoms of psychosis. He
practically laughed at me. He said that he prescribed
Zofran — it was a much superior anti-emetic. I
believe that the so-called “medical use” of marijuana
is just so much nonsense. There are too many cases of
marijuana smokers committing horrible crimes after
going into a “disassociative state” by smoking
marijuana. The Supreme Court went the long way to
reach the right decision but regardless the reasoning
the question is why it was not unanimous.

Posted by: Iron Teakettle at June 6, 2005 10:24 PM

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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] humorous slams
Date: June 6, 2005 at 9:45:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jupiter just came out of retrograde, baby. yee haw.

I’m feeling  heaps different today…. lighter, happier.. like the past few
months have been the world on my shoulders.  Wonder what the cosmos is up
to?

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The Monster Mash….
Date: June 6, 2005 at 8:38:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you rock, kirkie! If ya can’t laugh, you die
luv tink

On 6/5/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:

Apologies to all mentioned here, NO offence intended, only light-hearted fun
and an opportunity I could not resist in taking.

Also, apologies to Bobby “Boris” Pickett for mutating his one hit wonder
song.

Monster Mash (ode to Doctor Mash)

I was shooting up in my lab, late one night

When my computer came on with an eerie sight

It said “Ibogaine use is on the rise”

And suddenly to my surprise….

I saw Doctor Mash

“Come do the Monster Mash”

With Doctor Mash

It is a graveyard smash!

Come to Doctor Mash

I’ll have you fixed in a flash!

Come do the Mash

Come see Doctor Mash

(wahhhh ooooooooo)

From my drug lab in Brooklyn East

To Mexico where the Mexicans feast

The junkies all came from their humble abodes

To get a jolt from Mashes Iboga Toads!

They did the Mash

Come do the Monster Mash

With Doctor Mash

It is a graveyard smash

They did the Mash

She’ll have you fixed in a flash

They did the Mash

They did the Monster Mash

(wahhhh ooooo)

Out in reception, the phone did ring

Seems Steve was troubled by just one thing

He opened his mouth and took a big risk

And said “Whatever happens if I go amiss??”

Ask Doctor Mash!

You ask Doctor Mash

Just ask Doctor Mash

You’ll be a graveyard smash

Ask Doctor Mash

She’ll have you relaxed in a flash

Ask Doctor Mash

Come ask our Doctor Mash

The junkies were having fun

The party had just begun

The Ibogaine was all takun

OH SHIT I WANT MY MUM!!!!

The scene was trippy, all were diggin’ the visuals

The pasts flashin’ by, man, really dismal

Then one by one, the junkies all dropped dead!

And Mash came along and chopped off all their heads!!

They saw Dr Mash!

The saw the Doctor Mash

She’s Doctor Mash

She is a graveyard smash

They saw Doctor Mash

“I’ll have you fixed in a flash!”

They Doctor Mash

They saw the Doctor Mash

I woke up all groggy, not sure of the time

I opened my mouth and out came a whine!

These hands and this body, heyyy they’re not mine!!!!

Oh God, Doctor Mash is making Frankensteins!!!!!!!

Then you can Mash

Then you can Monster Mash

The Monster Mash

And do her graveyard smash

Then you can Mash

You’ll catch on in a flash

Then you can Mash

Then you can do the Doctor Mash.

6 June 2005  Captain Kirk

(Please feel free to add lyrics!)

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HHEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
Date: June 6, 2005 at 8:02:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I’m still trying to figure out if there are really trailers in
front of my face or if I’m being assualted by purple beeeeeez.
Almosy done, and landing nicely and squarely!
thank gaaaaaaaawwd!!!
love you all!!
back when i can focus for longer than 2 minutes ata time!
tink

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] humorous slams
Date: June 6, 2005 at 6:06:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Absolutely no problem….we’re bombarded with sooo much I know exactly what
you are saying.
It gets me too how people can run someone down that they don’t even know…
I’ve had many a lesson on that one and more and more I take people how I
find them, not what is rumoured about, gossiped about or even what has been
done in the past (which is still usually according to others..) though I can
be sensibly wary of course… depending on info.
Anyway, nuff rambling, I hope to meet everyone here one day…heh could be
very interesting.
I’m feeling  heaps different today…. lighter, happier.. like the past few
months have been the world on my shoulders.  Wonder what the cosmos is up
to?
Love
Thanks Dr Tom, for your thoughts
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: tomo7@starband.net [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2005 1:45 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] humorous slams

OK
,OK Cap’n Madam Kirsty,

Humor is great. I’m for that. I got touchy in that thread because the
territory seemed to be pulling out of self deprecation and into major
mistargeting of the Adversary.

Keep laughing and use the sheilds of sarcasm, irony, and parody as well as
you do. I agree that they help us cope and be happier. This community has
some incredibly witty people, some are funnier than a rubber crutch. I
like to laugh too, and hope to more often.

When it gets to behind their back slams of committed professionals that
have been teaching people about and treating people with this incredible
plant medicine, I guess my attitude shifts to less jovial, more
“shush…take good notes”. (The Treatment Manual of Howard, et al. is
awesome.)

Let’s laugh to not cry over the obscene national budget profits from
alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical cartels. And we can try to not think
about what the profits are spent on in terms of “science” and
mind/behavior control. It would be tricky to do anything with popular
lyrics about that. Maybe we could check out the Wobblies(I.W.W.) and Joe
Hill. They worked over Salvation Army Hymns in the early 20th Century with
some great creativity and heart.

Anyway, sorry if I got too touchy.
Dr.Tom

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [asa] Supreme Court Reverses 9th Circuit on Raich- Status Quo Remains
Date: June 6, 2005 at 3:50:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For another perspective, see the statement below.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Hilary
To: asa@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: [asa] Supreme Court Reverses 9th Circuit on Raich- Status Quo Remains

Good morning! As you probably know, the Supreme Court decided in favor of Ashcroft, giving the feds power to arrest state-legal patients and cultivators. For details and text of decision, see below.

Remember, this does not affect any of the state laws allowing for medical marijuana, and does NOT empower state and local police to arrest state-legal patients and caregivers. We had a lot to gain from this decision, but very little to lose.

from http://www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/

The opinions in No. 03-1454, Ashcroft v. Raich, can be found all in one place here. The Court reversed 6-3, per Justice Stevens. Justice Scalia was the sixth vote, writing a concurrence in the judgment. Justice O’Connor wrote the principal dissent, joined by the Chief Justice and Justice Thomas as to all but Part III. Justice Thomas wrote a separate dissent.

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From: Martin Steldinger <tribble@hanfplantage.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Projekt Drogen beim BERLIN05 Festival – 10. bis 12. Juni 2005 – FEZ / Wuhlheide
Date: June 6, 2005 at 1:56:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Short english description:
BERLIN05 is a festival vom the 10 to 12th june 2005 in berlin/germany. It is about political education with around 4000 young people. We will be there with topics about drugs in general and ( european ) drugpolicy ! =)

—-

Projekt Drogen beim BERLIN05 Festival – 10. bis 12. Juni 2005 – FEZ / Wuhlheide

Vom 10. bis zum 12. Juni 2005 werden Tausende Jugendliche aus dem ganzen Bundesgebiet für drei Tage in der Berliner Wuhlheide und auf dem Alexanderplatz zusammenkommen, um ihre gesellschaftspolitischen Ansichten, Ideen, Forderungen und Projekte vor Ort präsentieren und diskutieren zu können – und Politikerinnen und Politiker hautnah zu erleben. Neben dem vielseitigen inhaltlichen Programm sorgen viele kleine Aktionen sowie ein umfangreiches kulturelles und sportliches Rahmenprogramm für zusätzliche Abwechslung.

Besonderes Highlight wird ein Konzert am Samstagabend mit den Fantastischen Vier, Tocotronic, StereoTotal, Klee, Die Elenden und The Boonaraaas. Als Special Guest wird Sir Bob Geldof auftreten.

*Wir* werden mit verschiedenen Personen aus
akzeptierenden Drogenprojekten vor Ort, und Ansprechpartner
zu Drogen im Allgemeinen und ( europäischer ) Drogenpolitik sein.

Folge unserem Logo zu unserem Pavillon, lass dich informieren.

== Personen ==

Folgende Personen werden Ansprechpartner auf dem BERLIN05 Festival
sein:

* Hans Cousto, Eve&Rave Berlin (http://www.eve-rave.net/) Verein zur Förderung der Party- und Technokultur und zur Minderung der Drogenproblematik
* Max Plenert, Bundesnetzwerk Drogenpolitik (http://www.bndrogenpolitik.de/) von Bündnis90/Die Grünen (http://www.gruene.de/)
* Hartwin Rohde, Herausgeber der Entheogene Blätter (http://www.entheogene.de/) Fachzeitschrift und Entheovision Kongress (http://www.entheovision.de/) Organisator
* Martin Steldinger, Die Hanfplantage (http://die.hanfplantage.de/)

== Workshop(s) ==

Weiterhin ist folgender Workshop geplant:

Samstag, den 11. 6. 2005

* 14:00 WS – Süße Droge Cannabis – Grüne Jugend

Workshop zum Thema Cannabis. Input zum Thema und den historischen Werdegang der neuen “Jugenddroge”. Dabei soll bewusst die Information und Aufklärung im Vordergrund stehen, um über Risiken und Hilfsmöglichkeiten zu informieren. Anschließend sollen die TeilnehmerInnen eigene Infoplakate zum Thema erstellen, um die nicht anwesenden TeilnehmerInnen über Cannabis zu informieren.

* Georg Wurth, Deutscher Hanf Verband (http://www.hanfverband.de/)
* Max Plenert, Bundesnetzwerk Drogenpolitik
* Ort: to be announced

== Weitere Informationen ==

Weitere Informationen finden sich auf der Projekt-Drogen Webseite:
http://www.projekt-drogen.tk/

sowie der Homepage des Veranstalters:
http://www.berlin05.de/

Der Eintrittspreis für diese Dreitagesveranstaltung beträgt 15 Euro.

—> Pack die Badesachen ein, es gibt einen See und die Chaoslounge im
Camp Diskordia!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Supreme Court rules on medical marijuana – tell Congress to act
Date: June 6, 2005 at 1:48:37 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Totally incompassionate.

—– Original Message —–
From: Rob Kampia
To: Preston T. Peet
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Supreme Court rules on medical marijuana – tell Congress to act

Marijuana Policy Project Alert
June 6, 2005

Supreme Court rules on medical marijuana — tell Congress to act!
Dear Preston T. Peet:
In an historic decision today, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6 – 3 that the federal government can continue arresting patients who are using medical marijuana legally under state law. However, the decision did not overturn the medical marijuana laws in 10 states, which still protect patients from arrest by state and local police.

The Marijuana Policy Project’s grants program provided the majority of the funding for this litigation, which is only the second medical marijuana case ever to reach the Supreme Court.

TAKE ACTION

Now that the Court has ruled, we need you to spring into action. Please click here to send a free fax or e-mail to your U.S. representative to ask him or her to protect medical marijuana patients, since the ball is now in Congress’ court. In fact, a medical marijuana amendment is scheduled to come to the House floor for a vote next week. Our goal is to send 10,000 letters to Congress by the time of the vote, but we won’t be able to achieve that goal without your help.

Then, please visit  www.RaichAction.org to participate in a demonstration outside of your U.S. representative’s local district office at noon on Wednesday, June 8.

BACKGROUND

In its ruling in Ashcroft v. Raich ,the Supreme Court said that Congress — not the Court — must be the institution to change federal law to protect medical marijuana patients from arrest.
Writing for the majority, Justice John Paul Stevens said that there are other legal options for patients, “but perhaps even more important than these legal avenues is the democratic process, in which the voices of voters allied with these respondents may one day be heard in the halls of Congress.”

By stressing the need for plaintiffs to use the democratic process, the Supreme Court has clearly put the ball in Congress’ court. This makes next week’s vote in the U.S. House of Representatives all the more significant.
STATE LAWS UNAFFECTED

The ruling does not affect states’ ability to pass new medical marijuana laws; states are free to continue enacting laws that protect medical marijuana patients and their providers from arrest and prosecution by state and local law enforcement officials.

What the Supreme Court has done is continue the status quo: Patients in the 10 states with medical marijuana laws are protected under state law but will continue to risk prosecution under federal law. In other words, the Court’s decision means that nothing has changed. Click here for more background on the case.
WE NEED YOUR HELP TO PROTECT PATIENTS!

Since it’s now clear that patients cannot count on the federal courts for protection, we must push harder than ever for Congress to change federal law.

We need you to lobby Congress to end the federal government’s attacks on medical marijuana patients and caregivers. Please visit www.RaichAction.org to learn how you can help pressure Congress to protect medical marijuana patients.

Then — if you agree that sick and suffering patients should not have to live in fear of armed federal agents breaking down the patients’ doors to take away their medicine — please ensure that MPP has the necessary funds to push hard this week and next  for Congress to pass an amendment that would prevent the DEA from arresting medical marijuana patients or providers who are acting legally under state law.

Thank you,

Rob Kampia
Executive Director
Marijuana Policy Project
Washington, D.C.

Take action now!
Ask Congress to protect medical marijuana patients from arrest and jail.
Help fund MPP’s projects
MPP hopes that each of the 121,000 subscribers on our national e-mail list will make at least one financial donation to MPP’s work in 2005. Please click here to donate now.
MPP will be able to tackle all of the projects in its 2005 strategic plan  if you and other allies are generous enough to fund our work.
Popular Links:
• MPP’s home page
• Take action!
• Prohibition facts
• State-by-state medical marijuana laws
• MPP news releases
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• Download hand-outs

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 6, 2005 at 1:10:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
> swimming 3 days after Ibo is dangerous? I guess so if you don’t know
how
> to swim.
Most Addicts using large doses of Ibo (add a + for Indra) are not 100% there 3 days out swim, but that depends on what you mean by “swim”, there is relative added risk… IMO, there are does and don’ts that apply more or less to the particular patient and situation that may, one size just does not fit all.  3 days after an initiatory dose (say 12mg/kg of HCL) most non-toxic/non-addicts would be fine for a swim, I certainly would but not 18mg/kg for addiction, 3 days out and taxiing on the runway had me in spins, I once did a large dose of Indra, it took 5 days to get my feet on the ground I had to be careful in the bath-tub or with a glass of water much less swim. I have also known more than a few people 3 days out recovering from methadone using ibo, they were in no shape to do much more than get out of bed and go for a walk.

But if you feel it is safe, by all means have at it…; better yet get yourself really toxic first, a few nasty addictions and a decade or two (three…) of not taking care of yourself, not eating right, sticking all sorts of shit in your body every which way and generally being in a weakened and exhausted condition… first???

Brett

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>yes, I think so too, it is bad Idea, for most people taking a bath and a
massage is enough
on day 3 day four
I don’t think something bad can happen if you don’t swim far from land,
but as I know, most people are so drained after Ibo that they just would
want to sleep not swim.

Sara

Am I right in assuming now sir that swimming in the ocean is no longer
> prohibbited in St Kitts? ;o)
> I happen to be a pretty expereinced swimmer but 3 days out swimming in the
> ocean would probably have been a bad idea.
>
> Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
> swimming 3 days after Ibo is dangerous? I guess so if you don’t know how
> to swim.
>
>
> ———————————
> Discover Yahoo!
> Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

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From: laurentsazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bad news marijuana
Date: June 6, 2005 at 12:07:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

La Cour Suprême US interdit l’usage de marijuana à des fins médicales
AFP 06.06.05 | 16h41

a Cour Suprême des Etats-Unis a décidé lundi, à une majorité de six voix contre trois, d’interdire l’usage de la marijuana à des fins médicales.La Cour donne ainsi raison au gouvernement Bush qui s’oppose à cette pratique autorisée jusque là dans une dizaine d’Etats.La Cour examinait le cas précis de deux Californiennes, malades et consommatrices de cannabis, qui l’avaient saisie afin de mettre fin aux poursuites gouvernementales contre elles.Angel Raich souffre d’une tumeur au cerveau inopérable, accompagnée de pertes de connaissance, d’amaigrissement et de douleurs importantes. Diane Monson souffre quant à elle de fortes douleurs dorsales dues à une maladie dégénérative de la colonne vertébrale. Des agents fédéraux ont saisi ses plants de marijuana en août 2002.La production et l’utilisation de marijuana à des fins médicales étaient permises en Californie depuis 1996 et dans neuf autres Etats pour des malades atteints de sida, cancers ou sclérose en plaques.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] was this Mash slam humor?
Date: June 6, 2005 at 9:56:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I honestly didn’t take what Kirk scribbled as a slur or slight on Dr. Mash at all- I thought it genuinely funny and creative and hope that Dr. Mash would see it in the same light. It was genuinely hilarious. And I have not one iota of any ill feelings towards Dr. Mash whatsoever either- even if I can’t afford her ultra-pro treatment in St. Kitts. I have other options, as does everyone else, so why hold the prices against her? Go Mash, Go Howard, Go Dana, Go Patrick, go Randy, go EVERYONE who has everhad an opportunity to mention ibogaine and the CHANCE for a new start to an addict and done so.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:03 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] was this Mash slam humor?

Well, beam me up Scotty…the Cap’n has been into the grog I guess. Why
demonize and trivialize someone teaching about and using Ibogaine?
Especially if the perp is interested in this subject?

If people are really worried about the risk of death, how about checking
out unrestrained drug addiction for it’s obvious lethal stats. Cap’n Kirk
might have a better way to treat addicts than Ibo or Mash’s work, but it
doesn’t seem to be worth his electrons compared to this juvenile drivel.
Let’s hear how it ought to go then Cap’n… What kind of adult gets a grin
out of putdowns and slams of another person? If that’s harmless fun, then
take it over to the GOP, they like that frequency alot around campaign
times.

Let’s hear something useful about better ways to use Ibo or it’s  related
chemicals to avoid death and improve life quality and awareness here. That
would be really fun. The free market of you all voting with your wallets
will adjust the costs of it into line.

As for being careful not to die, we all do anyway. The issue is what you
want to settle for as living until you move on, and who gets hurt or
exalted along the way by how you live your life.  Let’s drag this whole
conversation up a notch and ask the maturity challenged to move on or at
least go silent.

Just my opinions, of course, I expect some might take offense. They’ll
just have to deal with it.

Dr. Tom

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] humorous slams
Date: June 6, 2005 at 9:45:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK
,OK Cap’n Madam Kirsty,

Humor is great. I’m for that. I got touchy in that thread because the
territory seemed to be pulling out of self deprecation and into major
mistargeting of the Adversary.

Keep laughing and use the sheilds of sarcasm, irony, and parody as well as
you do. I agree that they help us cope and be happier. This community has
some incredibly witty people, some are funnier than a rubber crutch. I
like to laugh too, and hope to more often.

When it gets to behind their back slams of committed professionals that
have been teaching people about and treating people with this incredible
plant medicine, I guess my attitude shifts to less jovial, more
“shush…take good notes”. (The Treatment Manual of Howard, et al. is
awesome.)

Let’s laugh to not cry over the obscene national budget profits from
alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical cartels. And we can try to not think
about what the profits are spent on in terms of “science” and
mind/behavior control. It would be tricky to do anything with popular
lyrics about that. Maybe we could check out the Wobblies(I.W.W.) and Joe
Hill. They worked over Salvation Army Hymns in the early 20th Century with
some great creativity and heart.

Anyway, sorry if I got too touchy.
Dr.Tom

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve. Jasen
Date: June 6, 2005 at 9:02:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, dude, you gave me goose bumps and then you made me cry. Your experience is so life affirming for me. I am so glad that you saw your brother and that he is with you. I always wondered what my brothers were going to do when drugs killed me. I just knew they would. Then I found out about Ibogaine. My little brother found it for me. I don’t know if I could ever be as grounded and at peace as you are right now. My brothers now tell me they love me first when we are finished talking on the phone. Ibogaine changed them too. They might not know it, but it did. I swear to God man I can’t stop crying. You will remain my brother until I vibrate to the other side. I guess you can tell how I feel about my brothers. I gotta go, I got work to do and I don’t want to appear as sissy cry boy. I gotta get my shit together. I’ve read your story before and it never ceases to make me be grateful for Ibogaine. I love you brother.          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Scream Therapy and Nick
Date: June 6, 2005 at 7:35:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fuck, I was so angry that I forgot to write anything. I’m kiddin’. I don’t know how things are in England, but I do know how things go where I come from. Group or no group, you go screamin’ at my friends your in for my anger. I’ll stand for someone else way before I would stand for myself. I try and not be defensive. It’s unattractive and just sounds like shit when I do it. I cry at the drop of a hat, and I used to fight the same way. I kept the tears and got rid of wanting to kick everyones ass, because it is so counterproductive to where I am now. But, suffice to say there is a part of me that I don’t like, and that is anger. I’m working on it. Being on this list has been so theraputic for me because I can see in writing what an ass I can become. Besides, it hurts when you get kicked in the balls, verbally or otherwise.      Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Scream Therapy and Nick
Date: June 6, 2005 at 7:18:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 6, 2005 at 7:13:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, trust me, some of us don’t need to feel totally angry. I’ve had enough anger for the rest of my life. But, when it comes, I embrace it, maybe too much, but since I took Ibogaine, I have been able to deal with it in a much more rational manner. That is if you don’t pay attention to the inane ramblings that I do on this list. Fuck this is pissing me off, *&^%&^&( shit&^$^%*(&(&() oh sorry.          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] was this Mash slam humor?
Date: June 6, 2005 at 6:57:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr. Tom, I agree with you about this discussion going beyond the slam and into something useful. But, I do think that Kirk was Hill fuckin’ arious. Kirk is a girl by the way. I think….er I’m pretty sure…………..er ……….I hope so, I lke girls.        Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 6, 2005 at 6:43:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Krista, I stand corrected. I just think that “Last exit for the damned” sounds cooooooooler. I hope Patrick doesn’t mind if I change the lyrics a little when I play his stuff. O yea that reminds me, Patrick, if you see this, you ever see Caddy Shack? Know that part where the guy goes “WEEEELLLLLLLL, we’re waiting”? WEEEEELLLLLLL, I for one am waiting on the book. I predict that you will have much success in your endevours. I can see you on Letterman now. Can you imagine the chagrine on the face of the guy that does the bleeping? Fuck him, make his ass work. HARD. Or hard on, or whatever. YEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAA.           Randy

From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 6, 2005 at 4:08:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Ursprüngliche Nachricht —
Von: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
An: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Betreff: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Datum: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:05:11 -0400

The two of you are amazing, but the message is hopeless about ibogaine
ever being legal.

KV

but you can obtain ibogaine completly nearly everywhere, except in the USA
and switzerland or so. -ek


Geschenkt: 3 Monate GMX ProMail gratis + 3 Ausgaben stern gratis
++ Jetzt anmelden & testen ++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail ++

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] PS: calling Dr Tom, Dr Tom to reception..
Date: June 6, 2005 at 1:19:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PS:  I have found humour in, and laughed madly at Hogans Heroes AND Mash.
Does this mean I’m trivializing the Holocaust and the Vietnam War????
Ohhh Woe is Me.

Come on now, that song was so ridiculous cos the accusations were so
ridiculous!!!!!  It had to be trivialized!!!

Oh bugger, I swore I wouldn’t try and justify myself.
Oh well.
Shit happens
Kirk :oP~~~~~~~~~~~~~@

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] was this Mash slam humor?
Date: June 6, 2005 at 1:00:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahh well, guess not everyone “gets me” and I’m well used to that.

FYI:- I am female, would be honoured to be able to do a treatment with Dr
Mash, Sara, or any of the other “soldiers” game enough to put their lives on
the line for us.
Perhaps I should have put “the opinions expressed in this song are that of
others on this list and those of us on the Enterprise do not necessarily
agree with them”

Like I’ve said before, if I can’t find humour in stuff, I’d go mad, get
angry, or sit down and never stop crying………………

Love to all, and lots of warm fuzzies to Dr Mash.

Captain Kirk
Aka Kirsty Dawn xoxoxox

—–Original Message—–
From: tomo7@starband.net [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Sent: Monday, 6 June 2005 4:03 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] was this Mash slam humor?

Well, beam me up Scotty…the Cap’n has been into the grog I guess. Why
demonize and trivialize someone teaching about and using Ibogaine?
Especially if the perp is interested in this subject?

If people are really worried about the risk of death, how about checking
out unrestrained drug addiction for it’s obvious lethal stats. Cap’n Kirk
might have a better way to treat addicts than Ibo or Mash’s work, but it
doesn’t seem to be worth his electrons compared to this juvenile drivel.
Let’s hear how it ought to go then Cap’n… What kind of adult gets a grin
out of putdowns and slams of another person? If that’s harmless fun, then
take it over to the GOP, they like that frequency alot around campaign
times.

Let’s hear something useful about better ways to use Ibo or it’s  related
chemicals to avoid death and improve life quality and awareness here. That
would be really fun. The free market of you all voting with your wallets
will adjust the costs of it into line.

As for being careful not to die, we all do anyway. The issue is what you
want to settle for as living until you move on, and who gets hurt or
exalted along the way by how you live your life.  Let’s drag this whole
conversation up a notch and ask the maturity challenged to move on or at
least go silent.

Just my opinions, of course, I expect some might take offense. They’ll
just have to deal with it.

Dr. Tom

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] was this Mash slam humor?
Date: June 6, 2005 at 12:03:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, beam me up Scotty…the Cap’n has been into the grog I guess. Why
demonize and trivialize someone teaching about and using Ibogaine?
Especially if the perp is interested in this subject?

If people are really worried about the risk of death, how about checking
out unrestrained drug addiction for it’s obvious lethal stats. Cap’n Kirk
might have a better way to treat addicts than Ibo or Mash’s work, but it
doesn’t seem to be worth his electrons compared to this juvenile drivel.
Let’s hear how it ought to go then Cap’n… What kind of adult gets a grin
out of putdowns and slams of another person? If that’s harmless fun, then
take it over to the GOP, they like that frequency alot around campaign
times.

Let’s hear something useful about better ways to use Ibo or it’s  related
chemicals to avoid death and improve life quality and awareness here. That
would be really fun. The free market of you all voting with your wallets
will adjust the costs of it into line.

As for being careful not to die, we all do anyway. The issue is what you
want to settle for as living until you move on, and who gets hurt or
exalted along the way by how you live your life.  Let’s drag this whole
conversation up a notch and ask the maturity challenged to move on or at
least go silent.

Just my opinions, of course, I expect some might take offense. They’ll
just have to deal with it.

Dr. Tom

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 11:57:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/5/05 11:05:34 PM, krista.vaughan@gmail.com writes:

“At the same time I have great doubt that it’s ever going to be an
accepted treatment modality for drug dependence”.

I have come to believe that my statement above was not correct.  There are
people working beyond Mash’s operations to make ibogaine an approved drug and
they just might do it.  So I stand corrected, I think.  I think Dr. Kamlet would
be welcome in any legitimate ibogaine development program.

Howard

Howard

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started. – Extract/HCL
Date: June 5, 2005 at 11:11:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My experience is that indra and my own extact of rootbark from Dan
Lieberman lasted 10% or so longer and caused more ataxia than pure
ibogaine, for a given level of effect. I believe that the
difference would be minor for a relatively healthy person getting
off of opiates. I agree with Sara that the iboga/ibogaine
experience varies so much from time to time anyway that it is
impossible to generalise about which form gives better insights.

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:36:02 -0700 sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no

experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the
greatest and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a
boring trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience  just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking  almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of
treatment. One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and

the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a

safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract
as it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The
only death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already
posted before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing
compound which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this
may, for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there

lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In

a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer
they better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine.
There are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take
it that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to

be aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking
at the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a
decision. Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine
will take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I
seemed to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3
mtimes a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and
the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope
so. I am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had
problems with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being
even more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to
go to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was
getting a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro
makes me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of
that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though
the ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it
but I knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway

I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only
thing that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am
self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come
up) I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do

detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is
some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power
and I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over
reacting as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone

that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was
it easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from

someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine

over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and
spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list
for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 11:11:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s not that dark Randy, it says “MindVox: Last Exit For The Lost”
🙂 The ibogaine part of Mindvox is “Welcome To The Jungle” 🙂

That was a bit out of touch Steve, at a NA meeting they’d tell you to
sit down and shut up. “I’m not like the others, I overdose on
prescription drugs I only want to talk to people who are out of
control with prescription medicines”.

KV

On 6/5/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Dude, if you are looking for a good spoken secretary then you better find
something besides Ibogaine to get you off of drugs. Read the Mindvox
homepage. This is Patrick’s list.  This truly is the last exit for the
damned, but it is the best your going to get. You don’t want to hear junkie
talk? I thought that was hilarious. Are you sure your really a junkie, and
if you are maybe you ought to except the fact that you have gotten here for
a reason. I was real serious when I first came here and got slammed a little
more than you are now. People might take O fence at what you are impying.
What me? I’m not like them, I am totaly rite, I just eat too many pills.
WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY too many. You could do a lot worse than become friends
with the people here. They saved my ass time and again. Lighten up and
except the love cummin’ to ya. It beats shooting up in a toilet (junky
humor) I know ’cause I done it. Do I sound like a dick? I don’t mean to be.
I joke all the time, I’m serious.  Randy

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 11:05:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL thank you vector that was hilarious. It’s not exactly the Patrick
I met at Alex Grey’s chapel, he’s very articulate and polite and gave
a science talk. In the ibogaine film he and Howard really shine
especially when set against the backdrop of the Bwiti cermeonies.
You’re a very smart, beautiful young man patrick, you do say “fuck” a
lot though, the ibogaine film needed that,you did it at all the right
moments. “Fuck yeah it works”. 🙂

I watched it again over the weekend, Ben it’s a incredible movie. Very
moving and powerful, the ending is also beautiful but a little sad,
with Patrick talking about the future of ibogaine as Howard walks into
the sunset and looks at the pond. That was a little sad, but neither
one of you two seem sad, but the two of you said the same things,
exactly.

The very ending of the movie.

Patrick talking, Howard walking into the sunset “A global awareness
and availability has significantly expanded and increased. I think
that is absolutely wonderful and I think this will continue”.

“At the same time I have great doubt that it’s ever going to be an
accepted treatment modality for drug dependence”.

“I see….. a few very small, sort of aborted efforts that haven’t
really gone anywhere. Unfortunately I think ibogaine will simply
continue to exist, expand and grow”.

“And the awareness of it grows….. So people who are in a position
that they need it at least know that it’s out there. And if you know
that it’s out there, then you have the opportunity to make choices….
and get it. However it is that you do so”.

“Unfortunately I do not think you’re going to be in a position in
western society… anywhere, that you’re going to go to your doctor
and say “I’m strung out” and he’s going to answer “Oh well you can get
ibogaine treatment””.

“I would want that. That would be the right thing to do. Unequivocally
I can say that would be the right thing to do”.

“But I don’t see it happening”.

“I really don’t”.

Howard closes the movie “I don’t believe that ibogaine is the drug
that will be used in the future. I think that it will be used, but I
like a lot of other people am waiting to see what the second
generation drugs turn out to be”.

The two of you are amazing, but the message is hopeless about ibogaine
ever being legal.

KV

On 6/5/05, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:
I guess this goes into the next edition of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
<http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/manual.html> It came off so it must be true.

Howard

In a message dated 6/5/05 2:30:35 AM, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:

Is this healing visions?
Patrick: What the fuck you want, why you be bothering me.
I want ibogaine
Patrick: So get some.
Does it work?
Patrick: It gets you unsprung, what’re you a fucking idiot?
Have you done it?
Patrick: 27 times.
With Dr. Mash?
Patrick: In my living room.
It didn’t work?
Patrick: I like tripping.
Were you a junkie?
Patrick: Forever
Did you stop?
Patrick: Yeah
Did ibogaine fix you?
Patrick: What’re you a fucking idiot? I don’t have time for this shit.
What do you think of Dr. Mash?
Patrick: Who?
Deborah Mash?
Patrick: She fucking rocks
Is she a good doctor?
Patrick: She’s a doctor?
Don’t you want to sell me a treatment?
Patrick: No.
Then where should I go, is Mexico safe?
Patrick: Who the fuck cares. [click
🙂 :
That would be a improvement over what they do now. Serious Patrick,
Mash’s help makes her look like she’s selling used cars, don’t think
she needs that.

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:48:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mash is a PhD. She is not a Doctor of medicine. Kamlet is the Doctor at St. Kitts who does the medical safety stuff. In mexico, who knows.. some mexican doc’s. Kamlet is not there in Mexico for some reason. Kamlet knows of cardiologists/addiction expert MD’s and alike who will do private rounds overseas, safely and with compassion.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The Monster Mash….
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:36:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

The junkies all came from their humble abodes
To get a jolt from Mashes Iboga Toads!>

LOL!
This is a classic and I hope everyone saved this one. Patrick, I’d expect this to be posted and taped up all over the “lab” by Monday morning, at the latest.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 10:11 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Monster Mash….

Apologies to all mentioned here, NO offence intended, only light-hearted fun and an opportunity I could not resist in taking.
Also, apologies to Bobby “Boris” Pickett for mutating his one hit wonder song.

Monster Mash (ode to Doctor Mash)

I was shooting up in my lab, late one night
When my computer came on with an eerie sight
It said “Ibogaine use is on the rise”
And suddenly to my surprise..

I saw Doctor Mash
“Come do the Monster Mash”
With Doctor Mash
It is a graveyard smash!
Come to Doctor Mash
I’ll have you fixed in a flash!
Come do the Mash
Come see Doctor Mash
(wahhhh ooooooooo)

From my drug lab in Brooklyn East
To Mexico where the Mexicans feast
The junkies all came from their humble abodes
To get a jolt from Mashes Iboga Toads!

They did the Mash
Come do the Monster Mash
With Doctor Mash
It is a graveyard smash
They did the Mash
She’ll have you fixed in a flash
They did the Mash
They did the Monster Mash
(wahhhh ooooo)

Out in reception, the phone did ring
Seems Steve was troubled by just one thing
He opened his mouth and took a big risk
And said “Whatever happens if I go amiss??”

Ask Doctor Mash!
You ask Doctor Mash
Just ask Doctor Mash
You’ll be a graveyard smash
Ask Doctor Mash
She’ll have you relaxed in a flash
Ask Doctor Mash
Come ask our Doctor Mash

The junkies were having fun
The party had just begun
The Ibogaine was all takun
OH SHIT I WANT MY MUM!!!!

The scene was trippy, all were diggin’ the visuals
The pasts flashin’ by, man, really dismal
Then one by one, the junkies all dropped dead!
And Mash came along and chopped off all their heads!!

They saw Dr Mash!
The saw the Doctor Mash
She’s Doctor Mash
She is a graveyard smash
They saw Doctor Mash
“I’ll have you fixed in a flash!”
They Doctor Mash
They saw the Doctor Mash

I woke up all groggy, not sure of the time
I opened my mouth and out came a whine!
These hands and this body, heyyy they’re not mine!!!!
Oh God, Doctor Mash is making Frankensteins!!!!!!!

Then you can Mash
Then you can Monster Mash
The Monster Mash
And do her graveyard smash
Then you can Mash
You’ll catch on in a flash
Then you can Mash
Then you can do the Doctor Mash.

6 June 2005  Captain Kirk
(Please feel free to add lyrics!)

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:22:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dude, if you are looking for a good spoken secretary then you better find something besides Ibogaine to get you off of drugs. Read the Mindvox homepage. This is Patrick’s list.  This truly is the last exit for the damned, but it is the best your going to get. You don’t want to hear junkie talk? I thought that was hilarious. Are you sure your really a junkie, and if you are maybe you ought to except the fact that you have gotten here for a reason. I was real serious when I first came here and got slammed a little more than you are now. People might take O fence at what you are impying. What me? I’m not like them, I am totaly rite, I just eat too many pills. WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY too many. You could do a lot worse than become friends with the people here. They saved my ass time and again. Lighten up and except the love cummin’ to ya. It beats shooting up in a toilet (junky humor) I know ’cause I done it. Do I sound like a dick? I don’t mean to be. I joke all the time, I’m serious.  Randy

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:22:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good
scream at you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not.
Til then, I guess I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to
reach “reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
would give you good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding
like a real, genuine asshole here.

Preston, I think that’s the wolf-speak version of “I like you.”
🙂

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Monster Mash….
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:11:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Apologies to all mentioned here, NO offence intended, only light-hearted fun and an opportunity I could not resist in taking.
Also, apologies to Bobby “Boris” Pickett for mutating his one hit wonder song.

Monster Mash (ode to Doctor Mash)

I was shooting up in my lab, late one night
When my computer came on with an eerie sight
It said “Ibogaine use is on the rise”
And suddenly to my surprise….

I saw Doctor Mash
“Come do the Monster Mash”
With Doctor Mash
It is a graveyard smash!
Come to Doctor Mash
I’ll have you fixed in a flash!
Come do the Mash
Come see Doctor Mash
(wahhhh ooooooooo)

From my drug lab in Brooklyn East
To Mexico where the Mexicans feast
The junkies all came from their humble abodes
To get a jolt from Mashes Iboga Toads!

They did the Mash
Come do the Monster Mash
With Doctor Mash
It is a graveyard smash
They did the Mash
She’ll have you fixed in a flash
They did the Mash
They did the Monster Mash
(wahhhh ooooo)

Out in reception, the phone did ring
Seems Steve was troubled by just one thing
He opened his mouth and took a big risk
And said “Whatever happens if I go amiss??”

Ask Doctor Mash!
You ask Doctor Mash
Just ask Doctor Mash
You’ll be a graveyard smash
Ask Doctor Mash
She’ll have you relaxed in a flash
Ask Doctor Mash
Come ask our Doctor Mash

The junkies were having fun
The party had just begun
The Ibogaine was all takun
OH SHIT I WANT MY MUM!!!!

The scene was trippy, all were diggin’ the visuals
The pasts flashin’ by, man, really dismal
Then one by one, the junkies all dropped dead!
And Mash came along and chopped off all their heads!!

They saw Dr Mash!
The saw the Doctor Mash
She’s Doctor Mash
She is a graveyard smash
They saw Doctor Mash
“I’ll have you fixed in a flash!”
They Doctor Mash
They saw the Doctor Mash

I woke up all groggy, not sure of the time
I opened my mouth and out came a whine!
These hands and this body, heyyy they’re not mine!!!!
Oh God, Doctor Mash is making Frankensteins!!!!!!!

Then you can Mash
Then you can Monster Mash
The Monster Mash
And do her graveyard smash
Then you can Mash
You’ll catch on in a flash
Then you can Mash
Then you can do the Doctor Mash.

6 June 2005  Captain Kirk
(Please feel free to add lyrics!)

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials; UK addiction list-server still on hold.
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:09:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: Addiction ‘supplement’ on cocaine anti-craving drug trials; UK addiction list-server still on hold.

March Addiction supplement: (1) CREST: Cocaine Rapid Efficacy Screening Trials. Eighteen drugs with little or no effect on cocaine use in Americans. (2) Addiction email list/notice-board still not opened after 7 years of advertising!

Addiction’s March ‘Supplement’ on cocaine raises more questions than it answers.  The Journal management has often stressed the need for proper scientific method, ethics approval, appropriate funding, peer review, discussion and evaluation . yet here we see within the familiar blue Addiction cover information which may not be of the same quality and rigour as regular articles published in the monthly editions.

The American NIH is apparently responsible for the genesis of the so-called: Cocaine Rapid Efficacy Screening Trials (CREST), (at one point also confusingly termed ‘Clinical Rapid Efficacy Screening Trials’).  These trials appear to be prematurely published works of limited scientific value, apparently not reviewed in the normal manner.  Such rushed publication is sometime justified, but cocaine problems have been around for many years and there should be no need to circumvent the usual scientific process in seeking solutions.  This is especially so considering that to date, pharmacotherapy has not shown great promise in reducing use, complications or cravings in cocaine users.  Such approaches have proven equally disappointing in opioid dependency even though anti-craving drugs are proving to be very effective for alcoholism.

The ‘Supplement’ is inconsistent, stating that out of 18 (p106), 19 (p1) or 15 (p91) drugs trialled in these very small (n=15 consenting volunteers in most cases) pilot studies, only 3 (2 is also quoted) showed significant effects against placebo for at least one outcome measure.  On close examination none of these three studies showed more than modest differences of certain outcome measures in very disparate subjects with high drop out rates.  Some of the subjects may have also been opioid dependent but we are not told the exact proportion.  The list included some drugs with either known or theoretical effects on dopamine systems or on cocaine craving scores (hydergine, levodopa/carbidopa, tiagabine, cabergoline, reserpine, sertraline, gabaprentin, lamotrigine, valproate, olanzepine, nefazodone, venflaxine, paroxetine and celecoxib).

Two drugs which the principal investigator states are worthy of larger trials are cabergoline, a prolactin inhibitor used for Parkinsonism and reserpine, a hypertension drug which was withdrawn due to serious side effects including depression.  Another possible contender was celecoxib, a cox-2 inhibitor, from the same group of arthritis drugs which have been under some recent scrutiny.

The very poor compliance rates over two months in these well funded pilot studies may be the most important finding of the enterprise, yet it is not highlighted.  Cocaine dependency seems to be less common outside the United States and ‘crack’ is still unknown in Australia.  I do not understand the utility of this large undertaking by the American health authorities and Addiction.  Did funding or even politics play a part?  Was it the ‘proceedings’ of a cancelled meeting on anti-craving drugs?

On another subject, under the name of Dr Kim Wolff, Membership Secretary, the advertising page for Society for Study of Addiction (SSA) states: “In addition to receiving . Addiction and Addiction Biology . benefits of becoming a member of the SSA include . The opportunity to share ideas and request for information quickly via the SSA Bulletin Board – available soon on our website www.addiction-ssa.org”.  In June 1997 (p770) Addiction stated: “. it is proposed in the near future to set up an Internet bulletin board for members to exchange ideas and request information.”  On enquiry a couple of years back I was told to be patient and that it would be up and running ‘before long’.

I wonder if this is a world record for failed good intentions!  It is hard to believe that the management is very serious about encouraging debate, discussion and disseminating information among its members considering the delay of 7 years.  We know that there are certain “no go” zones for Addiction, including the parlous state of pharmacotherapies in England and items with an emphasis on ‘harm reduction’.  But whatever could the management have to lose in opening an internet chat site for use of members as promised?

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing
Date: June 5, 2005 at 6:57:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like reading your posts Lee I think your one of the more interesting
freaks here 🙂 My comment and the part where I agreed with Sara is what
you answered, I asked if you had ever really worked with anyone else
using ibogaine or detoxed drug addicts, you said no. Then what you’re
writing are your own experiences and assuming it will work the same way
for everyone else, which is where Sara said everyone is different and
saying everyone is the same and it will work the same is bla bla bla 😉

I don’t feel that any discussion is groundless, even if it is that’s
never stopped anyone from posting it here 🙂 my comment was you don’t
make it clear that what you’re writing are ideas that sound good
instead of knowledge you have because you’ve tried this with anyone
else

You say
“talking with at least one other who has used the extract (as well as
used the HCL) to break an addiction I am off the opinion that the
extract is easier for initial use. Their opinion was also based not
only on themself but on talking to someone else with experience.”

My friend’s, friend’s friend said :0

That’s not experience but you present it that way. I’ve never replied
to one of your messages about spirituality but I do read them, you’re
writing your own opinions and experience some of it is very
interesting, this is the only message of your’s I’ve ever had a comment
on it wasn’t to attack you. You don’t make it clear that it is personal
experience, you generalize it like you’ve tried it with other people,
that is my whole comment.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Vector,

As far as I am aware I do make it clear in my posts that I am
speaking from personal experience hoping that it can advance the
discussion in a useful way. I don’t treat drug addiction and my
interest is in the psychospirituality of eboga. I have stated this
many times. Yet I do study this list for practical information I can
include on my web site to help those who cannot afford to pay for
treatment:

www.my-eboga.com/healing.html

I minimised the spiritual posts as it did not seem appropriate but I
still try to make useful input where it seems appropriate.

If I have issues that are toubling me I work with myself via the use
of eboga and document what I experience and the way in which I find
healing. That is what i do and I post what I believe to be the case.
My book also outlines many of my ideas. I don’t ask anyone to believe
anything I write. I simply try to make constructive suggestions,
hopfully generating useful discussion and ultimately moving the
discussion forward to dealing with healing which is far different
than pure addiction interruption.

Regarding the extract and HCL. I have used the extract about 3 or 4
times on myself and based on those experiences and talking with at
least one other who has used the extract (as well as used the HCL) to
break an addiction I am off the opinion that the extract is easier
for initial use. Their opinion was also based not only on themself
but on talking to someone else with experience.

The reason I say that one should start low and then move to higher
doses is based on information I recieved via an eboga session of
16mg/kg as well as observations on this list, the noting of deaths
and general intuition based on ongoing use.

If you feel that my suggestion is groundless then perhaps you should
refer to this:

www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt

where obviously something is going on – see pages 8 to 12.

While of course there may be exceptions there may also be a rule. And
if the rule helps someone who fears there are in serious risk of
death then I think the discussion will have been worth it.

This is a discussion I was hoping could be explored further in the
midst of all this anger that frankly imo could better be dealt with
by low-dose intention driven eboga sessions with the aim of
understanding why these feelings are so strong and thus hopfully
freeing their true source.

Wishing you well.

Lee

PS Please, can you post what exactly I have changed in my writing and
allow me the decency of a proper discussion with you? I think showing
respect to all on this list is fundamental to its success.

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what
you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you
should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are
god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal
as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a
boring
trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of
treatment.
One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract
as
it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already
posted
before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing
compound
which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this
may,
for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In
a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take
it
that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to
be
aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a
decision.
Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine
will
take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I
seemed
to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3
mtimes
a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and
the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so.
I
am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being
even
more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was
getting
a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro
makes
me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of
that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though
the
ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but
I
knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway
I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only
thing
that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am
self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come
up)
I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is
some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power
and
I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list
for
those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 5:55:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard! I made it into the ibogaine manual! 🙂

Patrick please don’t kill me 🙂

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

I guess this goes into the next edition of the Manual for Ibogaine
Therapy
<http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/manual.html> It came off so it must be
true.

Howard

In a message dated 6/5/05 2:30:35 AM, vector620022002@yahoo.com
writes:

Is this healing visions?
Patrick: What the fuck you want, why you be bothering me.
I want ibogaine
Patrick: So get some.
Does it work?
Patrick: It gets you unsprung, what’re you a fucking idiot?
Have you done it?
Patrick: 27 times.
With Dr. Mash?
Patrick: In my living room.
It didn’t work?
Patrick: I like tripping.
Were you a junkie?
Patrick: Forever
Did you stop?
Patrick: Yeah
Did ibogaine fix you?
Patrick: What’re you a fucking idiot? I don’t have time for this
shit.
What do you think of Dr. Mash?
Patrick: Who?
Deborah Mash?
Patrick: She fucking rocks
Is she a good doctor?
Patrick: She’s a doctor?
Don’t you want to sell me a treatment?
Patrick: No.
Then where should I go, is Mexico safe?
Patrick: Who the fuck cares. [click
🙂 :
That would be a improvement over what they do now. Serious Patrick,
Mash’s help makes her look like she’s selling used cars, don’t think
she needs that.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 5:50:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was mostly a joke Steve 🙂

Patrick is a very unique person 😉 He was a lifetime junkie except he
has like a 300IQ and talks to god now. Mash introduces him as her son,
I’m sure being a 7 foot tall pumped up alpha male prettyboy might have
something to do with her great love for him too 😉 I’m going to use my
best judgment and stop now 🙂

You say you’re talking to someone at Mash’s office who says they were a
junkie but doesn’t know what hydrocodone, lortab or percoset are. I’d
wonder about that 😉

I don’t really know any of the other people you’re talking about, so
why don’t you call other places and find what you want to do. That
wasn’t a joke, I’m sure you will eventually find someone who tells you
what you want to hear 🙂 I honestly doubt you’re going to die anywhere
from doing ibogaine. You probably have a bigger chance of dying by
driving your car to work while on your meds.

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Vector,
I am not sure what you were saying in your last post. I
think that you referring to the people that answers the phones at her
place. They freak you out. It may be cool  to talkjunkie talk with a
lifetime junkie. But I am a guy that has no drug friends, never have
and this was something that anyone that knows me would have said that
there is no way that Steve would have become addicted to pain
killers.

So when I call a place that I am going to spend alot of money and I
an worried about the safety of the drug, I dont want to get to talk
to an exjunkie that is talking “drug lingo” You know kinda of like
this.’ Man this stuff is some good shit it will blow you away, it is
a trip you will love this fuckin stuff”. Now dont get me wrong I want
to talk to people that have experienced this. But in my opinion I
would have been alot more comfortable if a good spoken secretary
answered and then had a professional call to discuss this and that
point give me some junkies numbers to talk to. I wouldnt have them
man the phones if it was me.

By the way when we talked he was asking me to tell him about my
problem and I told him that I was addicted to hydrocodone. He said
“Hydrocodone I am not sure what that is” I said you know
lortab,percocet and he said. ” Not sure what that is but that shit
sounds good” and I am like wait a minute this is the place that
supposed to be the only legitimate facility and this is what I got. I
said “HOLY SHIT”

So I got him to give me Dr Mash nu mber and when I called her she
was yelling at someone in the background while driving and I am
like”HOLY DOUBLE SHIT”
She had a Nurse name Rosetta  call me and she was the only one that
seemed normal and sounded like a business setting. She sent me the
medical protocol and the woman at the clinic looked at me like I was
crazy. She said we are not set up to even to  do all this. So I say
“HOLY TRIPLE SHIT”

Now last but not least I called the clinic in Mexico that I was told
that Debra Mash owns  and I get to talk to another junkie. He said
good news you dont have to do the medical protocol, we do it here. I
am thinking I am flying to Cancun not knowing if I am ok to do this
and he says “Oh you will be ok and never ask me one question about
me, my health, age, nothing. He also said that this will be the
easiest thing that you have ever done. You will be a new man in 4
days. You know the saying anything that is too good to be true its
probably not. He made it sound like a vacation. So Vector your
diagnosis of me maybe right I was just wanting to give you more of
what I have dealt with so that you can see why I feel so unsure of
what the hell to do.

Steve

__________________________________________________
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 5:17:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OH MY GOD I COULDNT STOP LAUGHING WHEN I READ THIS…THIS IS HILLARIOUS!!!!!!!
<“that sounds like good shit”> LOL fucken LOL….god damm it thats funny…..i ‘d like to hear what he says when somebody calls him addicted tosome heavy shit he’ll be like”wow man china white #5 fucken cool.bring ti over!!!!
this is fucken hillarious!!!!!! and dr.mash on the phone….HAHAAHAHAH….
steve dont get ddiscoureged man although it must seem like a big fucken joke…..

Namaste
Matthew

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 5:03:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,
I am not sure what you were saying in your last post. I think that you referring to the people that answers the phones at her place. They freak you out. It may be cool  to talkjunkie talk with a lifetime junkie. But I am a guy that has no drug friends, never have and this was something that anyone that knows me would have said that there is no way that Steve would have become addicted to pain killers.

So when I call a place that I am going to spend alot of money and I an worried about the safety of the drug, I dont want to get to talk to an exjunkie that is talking “drug lingo” You know kinda of like this.’ Man this stuff is some good shit it will blow you away, it is a trip you will love this fuckin stuff”. Now dont get me wrong I want to talk to people that have experienced this. But in my opinion I would have been alot more comfortable if a good spoken secretary answered and then had a professional call to discuss this and that point give me some junkies numbers to talk to. I wouldnt have them man the phones if it was me.

By the way when we talked he was asking me to tell him about my problem and I told him that I was addicted to hydrocodone. He said “Hydrocodone I am not sure what that is” I said you know lortab,percocet and he said. ” Not sure what that is but that shit sounds good” and I am like wait a minute this is the place that supposed to be the only legitimate facility and this is what I got. I said “HOLY SHIT”

So I got him to give me Dr Mash nu mber and when I called her she was yelling at someone in the background while driving and I am like”HOLY DOUBLE SHIT”
She had a Nurse name Rosetta  call me and she was the only one that seemed normal and sounded like a business setting. She sent me the medical protocol and the woman at the clinic looked at me like I was crazy. She said we are not set up to even to  do all this. So I say “HOLY TRIPLE SHIT”

Now last but not least I called the clinic in Mexico that I was told that Debra Mash owns  and I get to talk to another junkie. He said good news you dont have to do the medical protocol, we do it here. I am thinking I am flying to Cancun not knowing if I am ok to do this and he says “Oh you will be ok and never ask me one question about me, my health, age, nothing. He also said that this will be the easiest thing that you have ever done. You will be a new man in 4 days. You know the saying anything that is too good to be true its probably not. He made it sound like a vacation. So Vector your diagnosis of me maybe right I was just wanting to give you more of what I have dealt with so that you can see why I feel so unsure of what the hell to do.

Steve

————– Original message ————–

> No problem Steve 🙂
>
> You sound freaked out why not calm down a little and take some time to
> see what you want to do. If you’ve been on drugs for a long time is it
> going to make a difference if you decide in the next hour or take a
> week.
>
> The questions you keep asking don’t have answers I think, the closest
> one would be Mash because she is the only one with that much data on
> ibogaine and detox, she won’t publish it but I’m sure she’ll sell you
> treatment.
>
> Paging Patrick, whoever does answer the phones I don’t know who it is
> now but I have told peeps with drug problems to call her before and
> they freak from someone named Rosanna I think was her name, it’s like
> they all read the same script and start by talking shit about every
> other treatment. Used car salesmen turn everyone off, if it’s what Mash
> tells them to do or they’re all like that by themselves it is total
> sleaze when you call that place and it makes her look bad.
>
> A antisocial psychopath people could relate to 🙂
>
> Is this healing visions?
> Patrick: What the fuck you want, why you be bothering me.
> I want ibogaine
> Patrick: So get some.
> Does it work?
> Patrick: It gets you unsprung, what’re you a fucking idiot?
> Have you done it?
> Patrick: 27 times.
> With Dr. Mash?
> Patrick: In my living room.
> It didn’t work?
> Patrick: I like tripping.
> Were you a junkie?
> Patrick: Forever
> Did you stop?
> Patrick: Yeah
> Did ibogaine fix you?
> Patrick: What’re you a fucking idiot? I don’t have time for this shit.
> What do you think of Dr. Mash?
> Patrick: Who?
> Deborah Mash?
> Patrick: She fucking rocks
> Is she a good doctor?
> Patrick: She’s a doctor?
> Don’t you want to sell me a treatment?
> Patrick: No.
> Then where should I go, is Mexico safe?
> Patrick: Who the fuck cares. [click]
>
> 🙂 🙂
>
> That would be a improvement over what they do now. Serious Patrick,
> Mash’s help makes her look like she’s selling used cars, don’t think
> she needs that.
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Vector,
> > You made sense!!! You probably did for me what I needed but
> > no one did? you made me realize that I am probably over reacting.
> > Just have always been paranoid of any drugs? I wouldnt even try
> > exstacy when everyone else was loving it. I like to know the exact
> > science behind most things and when people tell you that it works
> > different on everyone. You have to wonder.
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > only you can make this decision, steve.
> > > don’t blow a gasket in the interim trying to weigh the options,
> > it’ll
> > > only make you crazier. Perhaps you might want to look into that pot
> >
> > > option… :]
> > > luv tink
> > > On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:
> > > > Steve not to disrespect you which is what everyone says right
> > before
> > > > they do right? 😉 Only knowing you by what you’re writing here
> > you
> > > > sound like a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac who will drive any
> > > > treatment provider crazy.
> > > >
> > > > Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and
> > will
> > > > have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
> > > > symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug
> > you
> > > > into every machine that’s ever been invented. or go to Mexico and
> > have
> > > > them sign a agreement promising not to kill you either and if
> > they do,
> > > > your family can sue them, or go to Sara and smoke a lottttt of
> > pot and
> > > > calm down. Your family won’t be able to sue Sara because she’s
> > > > protected by spirit guides and doesn’t need lawyers.
> > > >
> > > > I’d go with Sara but I’m not a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac
> > I’m a
> > > > run of the mill neurotic college student without a addiction 🙂
> > > >
> > > > .:vector:.
> > > >
> > > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
> > > > > months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in
> > my
> > > > > heart the gigs up. My family was talking about me this weekend
> > at
> > > > > the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family
> > thinks
> > > > > that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that
> > quit my
> > > > > business because of the diffenece in me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are
> > saying.”you
> > > > > know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about
> > this
> > > > > story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because
> > I had
> > > > > so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But
> > when you
> > > > > are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to
> > my
> > > > > brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!.
> > I
> > > > > have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt
> > the
> > > > > reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery
> > and
> > > > > realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually
> > didnt love
> > > > > them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed
> > many
> > > > > times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying.
> > Since
> > > > > then I have just kept increasing my dosage and justifying it
> > because
> > > > > I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But
> > guess
> > > > > what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my
> > dog. I
> > > > > will shower about every third day but you would never know
> > because I
> > > > > was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess
> > what. I
> > > > > am ok(as far as they are concerned)
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to
> > bore
> > > > > you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part
> > that I
> > > > > want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on
> > Ibogaine and
> > > > > I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at
> > it. My
> > > > > problem is that I have never seen or read about something that
> > has so
> > > > > many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE
> > DOING
> > > > > THIS!! I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I
> > cant
> > > > > break this without help. But I am the person that needs
> > assurances of
> > > > > things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never
> > had
> > > > > nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for
> >
> > > > > months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing
> > this. I
> > > > > have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in
> > control
> > > > > of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this
> > to as
> > > > > far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I
> > get
> > > > > comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can
> > die
> > > > > on this.
> > > > >
> > > > > A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I
> > know
> > > > > what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I
> > have
> > > > > control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get
> > comfortable
> > > > > with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are
> > criminals
> > > > > that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she
> > was
> > > > > nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I
> > took to a
> > > > > local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
> > > > > detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to
> > some
> > > > > people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I
> > own a
> > > > > business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
> > > > > reference that will embellish my results.
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
> > > > > talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going
> > to be
> > > > > the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking
> > come on I
> > > > > have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that
> > woriied
> > > > > me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there
> > on
> > > > > false pretenses. (I just want the truth)
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me
> > that
> > > > > Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I
> > dont
> > > > > whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If
> >
> > > > > anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do
> > this
> > > > > please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I
> > am
> > > > > giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
> > > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > > >
> > > > > > THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
> > > > > > Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this
> > till
> > > > > > we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we
> > all
> > > > > agree
> > > > > > that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
> > > > > > It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place
> > due to
> > > > >
> > > > > > lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It
> > makes me
> > > > > > postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the
> > support
> > > > > of
> > > > > > my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually
> > the
> > > > > > case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
> > > > > through
> > > > > > the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
> > > > > ibogaine,
> > > > > > I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority
> > of the
> > > > >
> > > > > > people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast
> > lane.
> > > > > > It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it
> > easily
> > > > > > accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
> > > > > > Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep
> > saving
> > > > > lives.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > love
> > > > > > tink
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say
> > that you
> > > > > guy’s are
> > > > > > > the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an
> > addict to
> > > > > wait to get
> > > > > > > your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed
> > to
> > > > > save enough
> > > > > > > money to get treated and keep from going through
> > withdrawal? Even
> > > > > at NYC
> > > > > > > prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention
> > that
> > > > > baby that
> > > > > > > needs milk and your old lady
> > > > > > > needs……………………………… you get my drift
> > > > > > > here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes
> > chances,
> > > > > old needles,
> > > > > > > whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
> > > > > treatment. Here’s
> > > > > > > Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you
> > used a
> > > > > needle
> > > > > > > that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed
> > it.
> > > > > This all
> > > > > > > hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on
> > right
> > > > > fucking now
> > > > > > > dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well
> > enough
> > > > > to get
> > > > > > > through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people
> > need
> > > > > treatment
> > > > > > > as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and
> > get a
> > > > > get a tan at
> > > > > > > the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I
> >
> > > > > couldn’t afford
> > > > > > > to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was
> > kind
> > > > > enough to treat
> > > > > > > me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through
> > another
> > > > > cold turkey
> > > > > > > and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed
> > because
> > > > > I couldn’t
> > > > > > > take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have
> > anybody?
> > > > > How many of
> > > > > > > these people die and we never even here about it? While
> > these
> > > > > people wait
> > > > > > > for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data,
> > and make
> > > > > it legal,
> > > > > > > people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling
> > some
> > > > > of them to
> > > > > > > go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or
> > AIDS
> > > > > it won’t
> > > > > > > hurt your stats any huh. Randy
> > > > > > > —–Original Message—–
> > > > > > > From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
> > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
> > > > > treatment
> > > > > > > illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but
> > there are
> > > > > many who
> > > > > > > where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not
> > had
> > > > > competent
> > > > > > > experts there to treat every possible emergency.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give
> > this
> > > > > to everyone
> > > > > > > for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead
> > body
> > > > > equals an
> > > > > > > ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve
> > this
> > > > > drug.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might
> > have
> > > > > died anyway.
> > > > > > > But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and
> > Howard and
> > > > > others
> > > > > > > work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
> > > > > nonprofessionals acting
> > > > > > > as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO
> > NEVER!!!!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
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> >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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> > > >
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> > >
>
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>
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee – Extract / HCL / Healing
Date: June 5, 2005 at 2:36:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Vector,

As far as I am aware I do make it clear in my posts that I am speaking from personal experience hoping that it can advance the discussion in a useful way. I don’t treat drug addiction and my interest is in the psychospirituality of eboga. I have stated this many times. Yet I do study this list for practical information I can include on my web site to help those who cannot afford to pay for treatment:

www.my-eboga.com/healing.html

I minimised the spiritual posts as it did not seem appropriate but I still try to make useful input where it seems appropriate.

If I have issues that are toubling me I work with myself via the use of eboga and document what I experience and the way in which I find healing. That is what i do and I post what I believe to be the case. My book also outlines many of my ideas. I don’t ask anyone to believe anything I write. I simply try to make constructive suggestions, hopfully generating useful discussion and ultimately moving the discussion forward to dealing with healing which is far different than pure addiction interruption.

Regarding the extract and HCL. I have used the extract about 3 or 4 times on myself and based on those experiences and talking with at least one other who has used the extract (as well as used the HCL) to break an addiction I am off the opinion that the extract is easier for initial use. Their opinion was also based not only on themself but on talking to someone else with experience.

The reason I say that one should start low and then move to higher doses is based on information I recieved via an eboga session of 16mg/kg as well as observations on this list, the noting of deaths and general intuition based on ongoing use.

If you feel that my suggestion is groundless then perhaps you should refer to this:

www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt

where obviously something is going on – see pages 8 to 12.

While of course there may be exceptions there may also be a rule. And if the rule helps someone who fears there are in serious risk of death then I think the discussion will have been worth it.

This is a discussion I was hoping could be explored further in the midst of all this anger that frankly imo could better be dealt with by low-dose intention driven eboga sessions with the aim of understanding why these feelings are so strong and thus hopfully freeing their true source.

Wishing you well.

Lee

PS Please, can you post what exactly I have changed in my writing and allow me the decency of a proper discussion with you? I think showing respect to all on this list is fundamental to its success.

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

> >I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
> experience
> and just saying this and that….
>
> yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
> and
> another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.
>
> I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
> every time
> it was a different experience.
>
> talking about both HCL and extract.
>
> some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
> trip,
> others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
> you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
> and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.
>
> you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road,
> which
> will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
> for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
> spiritual
> experience without risking almost anything .
>
> no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Steve,
> >
> > I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
> One
> > with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
> the other
> > with “pure” ibogaine.
> >
> > Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
> ibogaine
> > on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
> believe that
> > starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
> safer
> > route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
> spritual
> > considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
> “right
> > here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
> personally I
> > would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
> it
> > appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
> death I
> > am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
> sandwich while
> > unsupervised. Maybe there are others?
> >
> > For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
> alkaloids
> > lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
> before
> > on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
> interruption
> > serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
> which
> > contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
> extract –
> > in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
> for
> > first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.
> >
> > Of course studies are needed to prove anything.
> >
> > What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
> lacks a
> > higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
> further. A
> > few topics that might be considered are:
> >
> > 1. Treatment protocols such as ……
> > 2. Advanced Screening
> > 3. …… and so on…
> >
> > Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?
> >
> > All the best to you,
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> > sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> >>
> > Steve,
> >
> > personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
> > very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
> > dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
> > I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
> better
> > take the ibo rectally.
> >
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
> are
> >> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
> that
> >> there
> >> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
> aware
> >> of
> >> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
> the
> >> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
> Only
> >> you
> >> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
> take
> >> care
> >> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
> >>
> >> Nick
> >> —–Original Message—–
> >> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
> >> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
> >> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
> to
> >> have
> >> started.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
> >> yet.
> >> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
> a
> >> day.
> >> I
> >> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
> >> amount
> >> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
> am 41
> >> and
> >> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
> with is
> >> I
> >> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
> more
> >> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
> needed to
> >> get
> >> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
> to
> >> sleep.
> >> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
> a
> >> day.
> >> It
> >> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
> me hot
> >> and
> >> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
> >> hospital
> >> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
> ulcer
> >> was
> >> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
> knew
> >> that
> >> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
> >> believe
> >> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
> that
> >> I
> >> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
> >> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
> that you
> >> can.
> >> I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
> I
> >> have
> >> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
> detox
> >> from
> >> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
> >> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
> point. Let
> >> me
> >> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
> I am
> >> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
> people. I
> >> dont
> >> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
> >> treatment?
> >> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
> as in
> >> alot
> >> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
> these
> >> ideas
> >> of
> >> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
> that
> >> went
> >> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
> easy in
> >> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
> What was
> >> the
> >> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
> your
> >> mood?
> >> I
> >> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
> someone
> >> on
> >> the list that sounded normal like you.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> >
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
> over a
> > six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> >
> >
> > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> those
> > already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 10:23:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello stowe,or is it steve. I have done ibogaine 4 times, in medical setting twice ,(but not mash),once with respected provider ,and once with my friend at her home.Id be willing to answer any questions you might have, and id like to be helpful.Not having control is a common fear ,especially about hallucinogens, and for sure there is a large amount of surrender needed with ibogaine.No one can promise anything ,experience, results,impact on health. I am 52 and have hep c, so I was concerned too ,also being a nurse myself.I think after all the long exhaustive discussions weve had as of late you can see screening is a great & necessary element.If youd like to contact me off list ,that would be ok too.Sounds like youre ready to change, I wish you the best!!-shell

stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Vector,
You made sense!!! You probably did for me what I needed but no one did? you made me realize that I am probably over reacting. Just have always been paranoid of any drugs? I wouldnt even try exstacy when everyone else was loving it. I like to know the exact science behind most things and when people tell you that it works different on everyone. You have to wonder.
————– Original message ————–

> only you can make this decision, steve.
> don’t blow a gasket in the interim trying to weigh the options, it’ll
> only make you crazier. Perhaps you might want to look into that pot
> option… :]
> luv tink
> On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:
> > Steve not to disrespect you which is what everyone says right before
> > they do right? 😉 Only knowing you by what you’re writing here you
> > sound like a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac who will drive any
> > treatment provider crazy.
> >
> > Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and will
> > have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
> > symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug you
> > into every machine that’s ever been invented. or go to Mexico and have
> > them sign a agreement promising not to kill you either and if they do,
> > your family can sue them, or go to Sara and smoke a lottttt of pot and
> > calm down. Your family won’t be able to sue Sara because she’s
> > protected by spirit guides and doesn’t need lawyers.
> >
> > I’d go with Sara but I’m not a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac I’m a
> > run of the mill neurotic college student without a addiction 🙂
> >
> > .:vector:.
> >
> > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
> > > months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in my
> > > heart the gigs up. My family was talking about me this weekend at
> > > the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family thinks
> > > that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that quit my
> > > business because of the diffenece in me.
> > >
> > > I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are saying.”you
> > > know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about this
> > > story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because I had
> > > so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But when you
> > > are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to my
> > > brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!. I
> > > have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt the
> > > reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery and
> > > realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually didnt love
> > > them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed many
> > > times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying. Since
> > > then I have just kept increasing my dosage and justifying it because
> > > I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But guess
> > > what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my dog. I
> > > will shower about every third day but you would never know because I
> > > was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess what. I
> > > am ok(as far as they are concerned)
> > >
> > > Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to bore
> > > you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part that I
> > > want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on Ibogaine and
> > > I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at it. My
> > > problem is that I have never seen or read about something that has so
> > > many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE DOING
> > > THIS!! I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I cant
> > > break this without help. But I am the person that needs assurances of
> > > things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never had
> > > nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for
> > > months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing this. I
> > > have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in control
> > > of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this to as
> > > far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I get
> > > comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can die
> > > on this.
> > >
> > > A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I know
> > > what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I have
> > > control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get comfortable
> > > with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are criminals
> > > that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she was
> > > nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I took to a
> > > local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
> > > detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to some
> > > people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I own a
> > > business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
> > > reference that will embellish my results.
> > >
> > > I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
> > > talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going to be
> > > the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking come on I
> > > have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that woriied
> > > me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there on
> > > false pretenses. (I just want the truth)
> > >
> > > I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me that
> > > Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I dont
> > > whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If
> > > anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do this
> > > please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I am
> > > giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
> > > ————– Original message ————–
> > >
> > > > THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
> > > > Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this till
> > > > we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all
> > > agree
> > > > that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
> > > > It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to
> > >
> > > > lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It makes me
> > > > postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support
> > > of
> > > > my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
> > > > case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
> > > through
> > > > the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
> > > ibogaine,
> > > > I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority of the
> > >
> > > > people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
> > > > It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
> > > > accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
> > > > Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving
> > > lives.
> > > >
> > > > love
> > > > tink
> > > >
> > > > On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you
> > > guy’s are
> > > > > the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to
> > > wait to get
> > > > > your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to
> > > save enough
> > > > > money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even
> > > at NYC
> > > > > prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that
> > > baby that
> > > > > needs milk and your old lady
> > > > > needs……………………………… you get my drift
> > > > > here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances,
> > > old needles,
> > > > > whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
> > > treatment. Here’s
> > > > > Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a
> > > needle
> > > > > that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it.
> > > This all
> > > > > hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right
> > > fucking now
> > > > > dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough
> > > to get
> > > > > through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need
> > > treatment
> > > > > as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a
> > > get a tan at
> > > > > the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I
> > > couldn’t afford
> > > > > to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind
> > > enough to treat
> > > > > me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another
> > > cold turkey
> > > > > and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because
> > > I couldn’t
> > > > > take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody?
> > > How many of
> > > > > these people die and we never even here about it? While these
> > > people wait
> > > > > for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make
> > > it legal,
> > > > > people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some
> > > of them to
> > > > > go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS
> > > it won’t
> > > > > hurt your stats any huh. Randy
> > > > > —–Original Message—–
> > > > > From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
> > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
> > > treatment
> > > > > illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are
> > > many who
> > > > > where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had
> > > competent
> > > > > experts there to treat every possible emergency.
> > > > >
> > > > > If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this
> > > to everyone
> > > > > for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body
> > > equals an
> > > > > ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this
> > > drug.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have
> > > died anyway.
> > > > > But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and
> > > others
> > > > > work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
> > > nonprofessionals acting
> > > > > as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > >
> > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > > >
> > >
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 5:04:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wowwww!  Do they have that machine that goes “BIIIIINGGGGGGGGGGG”?????
(sorry, monty python flashback….)

Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and will
have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug you
into every machine that’s ever been invented.

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in my
heart the gigs up. My  family was talking about me this weekend at
the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family thinks
that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that quit my
business because of the diffenece in me.

I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are saying.”you
know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about this
story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because I had
so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But when you
are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to my
brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!. I
have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt the
reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery and
realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually didnt love
them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed many
times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying. Since
then I have just kept increasing my dosage and  justifying it because
I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But guess
what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my dog. I
will shower about every third day but you would never know because I
was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess what. I
am ok(as far as they are concerned)

Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to bore
you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part that I
want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on Ibogaine and
I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at it. My
problem is that I have never seen or read about something that has so
many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE DOING
THIS!!  I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I cant
break this without help. But I am the person that needs assurances of
things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never had
nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for
months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing this. I
have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in control
of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this to as
far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I get
comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can die
on this.

A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I know
what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I have
control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get comfortable
with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are criminals
that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she was
nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I took to a
local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to some
people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I own a
business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
reference that will embellish my results.

I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going to be
the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking come on I
have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that woriied
me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there on
false pretenses. (I just want the truth)

I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me that
Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I dont
whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If
anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do this
please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I am
giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
————– Original message ————–

THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this till
we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all
agree
that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to

lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It makes me
postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support
of
my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
through
the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
ibogaine,
I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority of the

people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving
lives.

love
tink

On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:

OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you
guy’s are
the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to
wait to get
your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to
save enough
money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even
at NYC
prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that
baby that
needs milk and your old lady
needs……………………………… you get my drift
here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances,
old needles,
whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
treatment. Here’s
Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a
needle
that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it.
This all
hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right
fucking now
dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough
to get
through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need
treatment
as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a
get a tan at
the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I
couldn’t afford
to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind
enough to treat
me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another
cold turkey
and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because
I couldn’t
take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody?
How many of
these people die and we never even here about it? While these
people wait
for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make
it legal,
people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some
of them to
go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS
it won’t
hurt your stats any huh. Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
treatment
illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are
many who
where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had
competent
experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this
to everyone
for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body
equals an
ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this
drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have
died anyway.
But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and
others
work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
nonprofessionals acting
as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 5, 2005 at 4:55:32 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Kirk chucks popcorn at Tink’s head”
Love these front row seats

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2005 1:01 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

i love you, preston!!
tink

On 6/3/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is such a case
of
the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle black?
Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is how reality
is.
But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but damnit Nick,
you
are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you drive me up
the
freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for “ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them”
anything
related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When exactly did
tink
“realize there actually really isn’t anything there”? You might have, but
that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about tink, or me, or
anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group” would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine
asshole
here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said –
if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The
same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and
laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it
that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post
about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get
something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation.
I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in
nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can
take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then
I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s
really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes.
I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position
though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I
guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there
is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can
read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there
is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and
I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but
I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never
claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my
end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything,
and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness
is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off
of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless
of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I
find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides
a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and
furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 5, 2005 at 4:54:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hehheh Look out!!! Prestons Back in the Ring
DING DING!!!!
Lmao
Kirk
(gotta love ego’s, they work so bluddy well don’t they?????)

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2005 12:57 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is such a case of

the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle black?
Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is how reality is.

But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but damnit Nick, you

are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you drive me up the
freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for “ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them” anything

related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When exactly did tink
“realize there actually really isn’t anything there”? You might have, but
that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about tink, or me, or
anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group” would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole
here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation. I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes. I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 5, 2005 at 4:53:13 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

:
tink wrote >I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your
prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.<

Bingo! Well said Tink.

OK!  I’ve turned my head and coughed but I still have fek all idea where my
prostrate is…………..(so I laid down with my hands stretched out….)
Luff
Kirsty Dawn ;O)

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve.
Date: June 5, 2005 at 4:51:16 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hiya Neighbour :o)
So cool to see ya here, glad to know you’re still watching!!!
Would love to hear how things are going for ya… hope you’re still thinking of Providing :o)
(Have got a protection order against Scotty now, honest I truly never enjoyed it………… :o)

Love heaps
Kirk
PS:  Good words there too from James…. Interesting summary of the past while!! ;o)
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2005 12:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve.

Hey Captain,

Thankyou for you kind words. I am always listening, this list will be a part of me for a very long time.
I have such admiration and respect for many on this great list.

Hey,…Scotty,…stop beating kirky up.

So,…you wanna see my session do ya neighbour. I have posted it here for Steve to read, most have
already read this.

Steve if you have any questions on or off list email me,..if you want to talk on the phone then email
me and I will give you my number.

Talk to you later Kirky.

love, from Jasen.

>> I was dosed with the extract of Iboga.
>>
>>
>>  For the umpteenth time I was reducing of the Methadone, got down to 25mg
>> then started using( once again).
>>  I went up to 60 mg. This was very depressing, wanting to get off the
>> methadone and knowing that I would have
>>  to reduce again and go through all that shit all over again. As
>> we know to
>> reduce from 60mg down to 25mg is
>>  much easier than from 25mg to 0. If I cannot handle going to
>> 25mg how am I
>> going to go from 25mg to nothing
>>  Aaaaaaargh  f*ck, I can’t do this anymore, I have been trying
>> for many many
>> years.
>>
>>  I was quickly losing interest in living, I just wanted to go home to the
>> other side. Being addicted to opiates for 23
>>  years had become to much to bear. I was at my wits end. I was giving
>> up,..going down fast.
>>
>>  One day soon after in utter despair, I had a thought come into my head,
>> “Hang in there, it’s almost over. Being desperate
>>  to be pulled out of the ocean of addiction, I held onto the thought. How
>> could this be nearly over, it will take another year
>>  at least to reduce of 60mg. The thought kept coming to me over and over
>> again, “hang in there, it’s almost over. I started
>>  to get some hope back. I thought the only way this can be over
>> quick is if
>> I find a great rehab” and come straight off.
>>
>> (I believe the voice in my head was my brother who passed on)(He also
>> battled with addiction all his life)
>>
>>  I started to search the internet and found this great rehab in the states
>> that uses some of Ron Hubbard’s techniques. Nutrition,
>>  Sauna and other things. I had heard of this type of treatment before and
>> was hopeful. I contacted them and spoke to this great
>>  guy, I am sorry that I cannot remember his name.
>>
>>  This man told me that I need to detox before coming to the rehab’ and
>> advised me of a couple of methods, one of which was
>>  the controversial Ibogaine/Iboga. He gave me the “mindvox” Ibogaine site.
>>
>>  I logged onto this site and started talking to some of the people and
>> reading as much as I could absorb on Ibogaine. I was fortunate
>>  to be able to talk to a few people before treatment during and after,
>> Howard,Randy, Julie, Sean and others.
>>
>>  The surge of hope flowing through me again was incredible, I could see a
>> way out. (I am getting goose bumps).
>>
>>  I applied for a loan and got it (whew). I spoke to some
>> providers and then
>> rang Sara in Amsterdam. It was booked and organised.
>>
>>  I took with me 600mg of physeptone (Methadone in a tablet) and worked out
>> that if I triple dosed for the next 3 days or so I would
>>  be finished them as I got to Sara’s, the final stone on opiates before
>> detoxing.
>>
>>  I got to Amsterdam airport and was warmly greeted with a hug
>> from Sara. We
>> jumped into the car and drove to her place. I gave
>>  Sara what little Physeptone I had left. When I got to Sara’s the fear
>> started to set in, this was it. Shit what am I doing here, I don’t
>>  think I can do this. No I can’t do this, I have to go back, for the next
>> few hours I am trying to figure out how I was going back.
>>  Sara could see how utterly scared I was and started to calm me. I
>> would have rathered a bear come into the camp to attack
>>  as I could have seen what I was facing.
>>
>>  I stayed the night and woke in the morning very anxious, f*ck,…no
>> methadone. Mmmm can’t go back and face everyone not having
>>  at least tried this.
>>
>>  I started to get a little sick in the afternoon and Sara gave me my first
>> dose of 1 gram of Iboga extract. I laid down and after about 1 hour
>>  I started to feel relaxed and more at ease with the Iboga, a slight
>> vibrating sensation, knowing this was a very spiritual plant I gave thanks
>> with each dose and asked for guidance.An hour or or two later I was given
>> 1.8 grams. The vibrating became more intense, I felt a low pitch buzzing
>>  in my head and a vibrating in my body, very relaxing,..no withdrawals.
>>
>>  I was then given 3 grams an hour or two later, the low frequency type of
>> vibrating became more intense, then I found myself in the jungle or
>>  somewhere similar. I was on a mat on the ground, there were 7 or 8 tribes
>> people on each side of the mat, they picked me up on the mat and started
>> wobbling it,…wobble wobble wobble,..side to side, I knew they
>> were healing
>> me. I was vibrating,..I saw my cells being vibrated, in my cells
>> were dark
>> blockages, little bits of black in these brilliant white cells, as I was
>> being wobbled side to side I could see my cells vibrating more and
>> more,..ummmmmmmm   ummmmmmmmm ummmmmmmmmm, the blackness started
>> to vibrate
>> out of my cells, the dark blockages
>>  were being dissipated to the sides of the the cells then disappearing.
>>
>> I was then given 5 grams, after a while there was like an explosion and I
>> found myself on this round medallion type of thing about 8 feet in
>> diameter, like a huge coin. I was spread eagled on this medallion
>> and could
>> not move, arms and legs spread out. One side of this medallion
>> was a brilliant brilliant white and the other side was pitch black.
>>
>> The medallion started to flip whilst going up, whov whov whov whov whov,
>> then it stopped on an angle, facing up at about a 120 degrees.
>> Then it felt like people put there hands inside my body, my bones from my
>> back and then they ripped away with a crack, as this happened
>> the back of the medallion which was pitch black, snapped away and even
>> though
>> I was still spread eagled on the coin, I felt myself falling into
>> this pitch black abyss, feeling of falling falling and at the same time
>> knowing I was also on the medallion feeling safe.
>>
>> The feeling of falling disappeared and I was still on the medallion, the
>> medallion was now only a brilliant white, it started to flip again and go
>> up, whov whov whov whov, making this type of sound as it went up
>> up up. The
>> medallion came to a stop and I was facing this most beautiful
>> light,…love  acceptance,..more than light more than love, I do not have
>> the words to explain such a sight,..a vast light,..like a liquid love, so
>> bright so expansive. I was a little concerned and I was told, there is
>> nothing to fear, face the light,..and as I did the light which was
>> everything
>> in that existence, there was nothing else, it started to move
>> towards me and
>> then went through me and ohhhh, what a feeling, I started to get
>> champagne bubbles of light going through me, up from my stomach
>> splitting at
>> the base of my heart and exiting through my shoulders, shring
>> shring shring.
>>
>> It was like I had to be cleansed before going any further,…like
>> trying to
>> mix
>> 14ct gold with 24ct gold,..if you do this you taint the pure
>> gold,..so I was
>> smeltered,..purified so to say.
>>
>> One of my brothers was killed about 2 years ago. As I was in this light I
>> saw his head,..it was moving from side to side with like white flames
>> coming off his head like locks of white liquid light, his mouth
>> did not move
>> but he was speaking to me, there was light coming from his eyes
>> and from his closed mouth, like he was facing a fan and the fan
>> was blowing
>> his hair but it wasn’t hair, he said to me,”You cannot die, you simply
>> leave your body behind and vibrate into another dimension, I am
>> still alive,
>> just in another dimension, if you want to honour my name, live
>> life fully,
>> and
>>  I will live through you until you come home..
>>
>> The love coming from him was incredible, he was incredible,..so
>> beautiful, I
>> still see him clearly.
>>
>> I was shown you are one with everything, I felt it, I was told you can
>> experience anyone that ever was or is, who do you wish to experience?
>> I wanted to feel what it would be like to be Jesus, as I thought
>> this, I was
>> coming into a body from above this being of light that had white
>> light as hair saddling his shoulders, as I entered this body of
>> light I got
>> this tremendous feeling of love coming out of my mouth and outstretched
>> hands, like beacons of light coming from my hands and a tremendous feeling
>> of love and compassion within and being sent out to the world, wow, I fell
>> in love with love.
>>
>> Pure and utter bliss.
>>
>> As I woke up I felt as if my heart was outside of my body, it was turned
>> inside out and twisted a little,..like a gene. I went to get up and as I
>> did it felt like I would leave my heart behind if I moved to
>> fast. Like your
>> stomach would feel as you go down a rollercoaster. For the next
>> 24 hours or
>> so I had to cradle my heart out side of my body, like it was my hearts
>> spirit. I would lay down cradling what looked like an empty space above my
>> chest which I felt was my heart outside my body. It felt red raw, inside
>> out,..twisted and it hurt.
>>
>> After about 24 hours or so my heart felt like it was untwisting and going
>> back inside me.,..then something started to fill my heart with what looked
>> and felt
>> like liquid golden honey, they filled it until my heart overflowed with
>> love I could feel the liquid honey overflowing and trickling down, the
>> feeling was so filling, the love I felt was more than I can describe.
>>
>> For the next 7 days I had no withdrawals. My energy was non existent and I
>> could not sleep. After about seven days I started to feel some
>> withdrawals,.about 5%. Not sleeping was driving me mad, I was so bored.
>>  I was listening to a lot of music, day and night, a lot of Pink Floyd’s
>> “Division Bell.”   I was so happy,..I am free,…f*ck I can’t believe it,
>> wow,..I kept thinking this and would cry with joy,..I am free I am free.
>>
>> After about 3 weeks I had approx’ up to 15% withdrawals, however they were
>> different,..not at a soul level,..more physical,..like I was just
>> sick getting better. I stayed at Sara’s for 27 days and in this time took
>> nutrients and Sara cooked yummy food, Mmm Mmmm M.
>>
>> I am now into my fourth month, still feel a little “not right” however
>> getting stronger everyday.
>>
>> My after care consists of no friends around me that are using, drinking
>> herbs and a lot of nutrients, they make the mind stronger. No sugar except
>> for fruit or an occasional short black coffee..smoking pot has helped
>>  tremendously. Exercising has helped sleeping. Socialising and laughing my
>>  head off is great.
>>
>> I went to a nightclub and laughed so much I got kicked out. Can
>> you believe
>> that.   :)
>>
>> I have steam baths at the gym to help sweat out the Methadone.
>>
>> To help with sleep I took Kava Kava, Passion flower and Valerian. Also
>> Metagenics “Fibroplex plus”. I also took vitamin B complex and
>> other nutrients. Good food is huge and a lot of water.
>>
>> I also gave up many many years of smoking tobbaco. I still feel like
>> a ciggarette now and then, however the urge goes within a minute or
>> two.
>>
>> I still find it hard to concentrate and I get impatient. Normally I am a
>> very patient tolerant man.
>>
>> Any questions are welcome on or off list.
>>
>>
>> >
>>                                                                      love,
>>                                                                     Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: j0n….

Hi j0n!
I’ve used hydrocodone (um, think it’s same as here in NZ…. DHC?? Dihydrouscodeine? (sp…)) to alleviate withdrawals…. Helped having them freely available between seasons I guess…
Anyway, if Jase from Aussie is listening in, I thought I had saved it, but nope can’t find it, but his Ibo session (plus the way he describes it is excellent n all) is one of my all time favourites to read and I can only hope to have even a slitely similar session in the future, but yeh yeh We’re all Individuals (Just like everybody else…… heh)  and I’m also sure that others who are watching would like to share their sessions too?  I’ve been following Ibogaine since 1998……. Self-dosed non-pure ibogaine in 2000 and was just sick BUT not in the withdrawal sense and tolerance had dropped below half of what I needed.  At that stage (from what I had read… silly me!) I figured the ibogaine was just shite and it hadn’t worked so back into life, work etc.  Looking back now I see that in certain ways it had worked, and it’s shown me the importance of fully understanding and researching something before doing anything!  Don’t cha just love life lessons? Ya know I do!! (mutter grumble gibber gibber grrrr lol)
Anyway, stay tuned, and JASENNNNNNNNNNNN!!  Show us ya session!!  There’s a good bloke! Where have you been?
Luff heaps, and all the best for ya j0n when you embark on your journey (em-BARK haaaa!!, gee, is it meds time already???)
Kirk xxx :oP :o)

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 5, 2005 at 4:31:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 21:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I have had a lovely day in the sun, at a co op block party, complete
with samba drummers.  I take it you’re in the uk and it must be
raining as always? what ever happened to “to be in england in the
summertime with my love, close to the edit”
It snowed here on Cinco de mayo.  Yurgh.  I can’t say shit about
weather, really.
Healing emotion, i can see that, but only if you don’t let it
over take you.
Have you tried meditation?  Or how about kick boxing?
They say that the rain cleanses the earth and your soul all at the
same time, so maybe you can go for a walk?  I’ve always enjoyed
(willingly) walking in the rain.  It helps me to clear my head.
worth a suggestion.  notice i didn’t say you SHOULD go for a walk
in the rain…
:]
tink

Hey Tink,

Well, it’s not summertime yet! Not til the 21st, so that’s the UK’s excuse,
I guess, for the weather. I live in a meditation centre so meditating’s
never so far away, whatever the word really means. It’s an Osho place, so
we’re more physical, less sitting around stuff. About anger, I think it’s
great to let it overtake you, if you can be in a safe environment to do
that. Losing control, yeah! To really be like totally Anger for a while,
just to see what happens. What a luxury.

Nick

On 6/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Tink,

Well, being pissed off I’m ok with really. I did so many years
of therapy
stuff that I’m just used to it these days and can let myself go there
without getting stressed about it. When there’s a bit the feeling “Oh, I
shouldn’t get angry about this” then there’s more of a dynamic
inside and
it’s more stressful or it can put me in a bad mood. Today I’m
not in a bad
mood though the weather’s a bit shit so I’m not ecstatic either. Anger’s
cool. Alex Lowen called it the “healing emotion,” I always liked that.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 14:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

in a bad mood already, Nick?
Tranquillo papi!!
If you don’t like what you’re reading and hearing, why beat a
dead horse?

On 6/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Preston,

OK, thanks. It just pisses me off to get in these debates where
a whole load
of retards jump in and just rant more and more bollocks,
avoiding totally
what’s actually being discussed. But, I’m getting used to it!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 02:08
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real,
genuine asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly
no need for
this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about my
anger first.
Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me frustration out loud
in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t
need to get
quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff?
You have to
know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is
such a case
of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling
the kettle
black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write
such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight
in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is
how reality
is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so
obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that
if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but
damnit Nick,
you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you
drive me
up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the
one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for
“ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my
reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever
told “them”
anything related to the above? Then why are you writing
“you”? When
exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything
there”? You
might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing
whatsoever about
tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know
how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a
real, genuine
asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken
open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said –
if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff?
You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave
me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on
here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that
that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an
assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE,
etc, etc. The
same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post
I wrote and
laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t
directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go
for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and
as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s
green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my
post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine
because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to
get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the
same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just
manipulation.
I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on
anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as
well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on
yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter
person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still
hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very
slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss
it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people
a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually
really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to
that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I
mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years
ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally
traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your
eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of
Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this
help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a
feeling for what’s
really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for
your wishes.
I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of
your position
though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back
in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t
be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.
However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled
many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,
seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you
really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that
road.  You can
read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise,
but there
is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances
of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that
people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of
it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get
your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I
haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but
would never
claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I
am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your
head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of
drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your
mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And
please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s”
from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a
few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come
out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in
except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That
you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You
don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about
the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does,
and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types.
You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or
university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection
with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop
naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of
preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I
didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It
should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they
decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra
thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes
everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they
are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.
There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a
iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s
marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.
they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).
Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in
particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the
information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!
Profiting off
of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need,
regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live
available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had
to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg
<nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally
great, and I
find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So
what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She
provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care,
and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t
care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just
such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 3:36:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess this goes into the next edition of the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy
<http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/manual.html> It came off so it must be true.

Howard

In a message dated 6/5/05 2:30:35 AM, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:

Is this healing visions?
Patrick: What the fuck you want, why you be bothering me.
I want ibogaine
Patrick: So get some.
Does it work?
Patrick: It gets you unsprung, what’re you a fucking idiot?
Have you done it?
Patrick: 27 times.
With Dr. Mash?
Patrick: In my living room.
It didn’t work?
Patrick: I like tripping.
Were you a junkie?
Patrick: Forever
Did you stop?
Patrick: Yeah
Did ibogaine fix you?
Patrick: What’re you a fucking idiot? I don’t have time for this shit.
What do you think of Dr. Mash?
Patrick: Who?
Deborah Mash?
Patrick: She fucking rocks
Is she a good doctor?
Patrick: She’s a doctor?
Don’t you want to sell me a treatment?
Patrick: No.
Then where should I go, is Mexico safe?
Patrick: Who the fuck cares. [click
🙂 :
That would be a improvement over what they do now. Serious Patrick,
Mash’s help makes her look like she’s selling used cars, don’t think
she needs that.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 2:29:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No problem Steve 🙂

You sound freaked out why not calm down a little and take some time to
see what you want to do. If you’ve been on drugs for a long time is it
going to make a difference if you decide in the next hour or take a
week.

The questions you keep asking don’t have answers I think, the closest
one would be Mash because she is the only one with that much data on
ibogaine and detox, she won’t publish it but I’m sure she’ll sell you
treatment.

Paging Patrick, whoever does answer the phones I don’t know who it is
now but I have told peeps with drug problems to call her before and
they freak from someone named Rosanna I think was her name, it’s like
they all read the same script and start by talking shit about every
other treatment. Used car salesmen turn everyone off, if it’s what Mash
tells them to do or they’re all like that by themselves it is total
sleaze when you call that place and it makes her look bad.

A antisocial psychopath people could relate to 🙂

Is this healing visions?
Patrick: What the fuck you want, why you be bothering me.
I want ibogaine
Patrick: So get some.
Does it work?
Patrick: It gets you unsprung, what’re you a fucking idiot?
Have you done it?
Patrick: 27 times.
With Dr. Mash?
Patrick: In my living room.
It didn’t work?
Patrick: I like tripping.
Were you a junkie?
Patrick: Forever
Did you stop?
Patrick: Yeah
Did ibogaine fix you?
Patrick: What’re you a fucking idiot? I don’t have time for this shit.
What do you think of Dr. Mash?
Patrick: Who?
Deborah Mash?
Patrick: She fucking rocks
Is she a good doctor?
Patrick: She’s a doctor?
Don’t you want to sell me a treatment?
Patrick: No.
Then where should I go, is Mexico safe?
Patrick: Who the fuck cares. [click]

🙂 🙂

That would be a improvement over what they do now. Serious Patrick,
Mash’s help makes her look like she’s selling used cars, don’t think
she needs that.

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Vector,
You made sense!!! You probably did for me what I needed but
no one did? you made me realize that I am probably over reacting.
Just have always been paranoid of any drugs? I wouldnt even try
exstacy when everyone else was loving it. I like to know the exact
science behind most things and when people tell you that it works
different on everyone. You have to wonder.
————– Original message ————–

only you can make this decision, steve.
don’t blow a gasket in the interim trying to weigh the options,
it’ll
only make you crazier. Perhaps you might want to look into that pot

option… :]
luv tink
On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:
Steve not to disrespect you which is what everyone says right
before
they do right? 😉 Only knowing you by what you’re writing here
you
sound like a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac who will drive any
treatment provider crazy.

Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and
will
have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug
you
into every machine that’s ever been invented. or go to Mexico and
have
them sign a agreement promising not to kill you either and if
they do,
your family can sue them, or go to Sara and smoke a lottttt of
pot and
calm down. Your family won’t be able to sue Sara because she’s
protected by spirit guides and doesn’t need lawyers.

I’d go with Sara but I’m not a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac
I’m a
run of the mill neurotic college student without a addiction 🙂

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in
my
heart the gigs up. My family was talking about me this weekend
at
the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family
thinks
that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that
quit my
business because of the diffenece in me.

I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are
saying.”you
know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about
this
story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because
I had
so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But
when you
are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to
my
brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!.
I
have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt
the
reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery
and
realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually
didnt love
them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed
many
times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying.
Since
then I have just kept increasing my dosage and justifying it
because
I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But
guess
what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my
dog. I
will shower about every third day but you would never know
because I
was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess
what. I
am ok(as far as they are concerned)

Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to
bore
you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part
that I
want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on
Ibogaine and
I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at
it. My
problem is that I have never seen or read about something that
has so
many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE
DOING
THIS!! I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I
cant
break this without help. But I am the person that needs
assurances of
things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never
had
nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for

months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing
this. I
have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in
control
of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this
to as
far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I
get
comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can
die
on this.

A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I
know
what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I
have
control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get
comfortable
with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are
criminals
that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she
was
nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I
took to a
local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to
some
people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I
own a
business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
reference that will embellish my results.

I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going
to be
the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking
come on I
have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that
woriied
me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there
on
false pretenses. (I just want the truth)

I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me
that
Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I
dont
whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If

anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do
this
please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I
am
giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
————– Original message ————–

THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this
till
we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we
all
agree
that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place
due to

lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It
makes me
postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the
support
of
my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually
the
case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
through
the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
ibogaine,
I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority
of the

people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast
lane.
It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it
easily
accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep
saving
lives.

love
tink

On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:

OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say
that you
guy’s are
the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an
addict to
wait to get
your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed
to
save enough
money to get treated and keep from going through
withdrawal? Even
at NYC
prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention
that
baby that
needs milk and your old lady
needs……………………………… you get my drift
here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes
chances,
old needles,
whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
treatment. Here’s
Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you
used a
needle
that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed
it.
This all
hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on
right
fucking now
dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well
enough
to get
through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people
need
treatment
as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and
get a
get a tan at
the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I

couldn’t afford
to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was
kind
enough to treat
me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through
another
cold turkey
and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed
because
I couldn’t
take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have
anybody?
How many of
these people die and we never even here about it? While
these
people wait
for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data,
and make
it legal,
people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling
some
of them to
go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or
AIDS
it won’t
hurt your stats any huh. Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
treatment
illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but
there are
many who
where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not
had
competent
experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give
this
to everyone
for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead
body
equals an
ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve
this
drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might
have
died anyway.
But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and
Howard and
others
work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
nonprofessionals acting
as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO
NEVER!!!!!!!

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 1:13:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,
You made sense!!! You probably did for me what I needed but no one did? you made me realize that I am probably over reacting. Just have always been paranoid of any drugs? I wouldnt even try exstacy when everyone else was loving it. I like to know the exact science behind most things and when people tell you that it works different on everyone. You have to wonder.
————– Original message ————–

> only you can make this decision, steve.
> don’t blow a gasket in the interim trying to weigh the options, it’ll
> only make you crazier. Perhaps you might want to look into that pot
> option… :]
> luv tink
> On 6/5/05, Vector Vector wrote:
> > Steve not to disrespect you which is what everyone says right before
> > they do right? 😉 Only knowing you by what you’re writing here you
> > sound like a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac who will drive any
> > treatment provider crazy.
> >
> > Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and will
> > have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
> > symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug you
> > into every machine that’s ever been invented. or go to Mexico and have
> > them sign a agreement promising not to kill you either and if they do,
> > your family can sue them, or go to Sara and smoke a lottttt of pot and
> > calm down. Your family won’t be able to sue Sara because she’s
> > protected by spirit guides and doesn’t need lawyers.
> >
> > I’d go with Sara but I’m not a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac I’m a
> > run of the mill neurotic college student without a addiction 🙂
> >
> > .:vector:.
> >
> > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
> > > months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in my
> > > heart the gigs up. My family was talking about me this weekend at
> > > the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family thinks
> > > that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that quit my
> > > business because of the diffenece in me.
> > >
> > > I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are saying.”you
> > > know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about this
> > > story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because I had
> > > so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But when you
> > > are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to my
> > > brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!. I
> > > have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt the
> > > reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery and
> > > realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually didnt love
> > > them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed many
> > > times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying. Since
> > > then I have just kept increasing my dosage and justifying it because
> > > I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But guess
> > > what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my dog. I
> > > will shower about every third day but you would never know because I
> > > was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess what. I
> > > am ok(as far as they are concerned)
> > >
> > > Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to bore
> > > you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part that I
> > > want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on Ibogaine and
> > > I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at it. My
> > > problem is that I have never seen or read about something that has so
> > > many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE DOING
> > > THIS!! I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I cant
> > > break this without help. But I am the person that needs assurances of
> > > things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never had
> > > nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for
> > > months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing this. I
> > > have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in control
> > > of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this to as
> > > far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I get
> > > comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can die
> > > on this.
> > >
> > > A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I know
> > > what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I have
> > > control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get comfortable
> > > with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are criminals
> > > that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she was
> > > nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I took to a
> > > local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
> > > detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to some
> > > people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I own a
> > > business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
> > > reference that will embellish my results.
> > >
> > > I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
> > > talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going to be
> > > the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking come on I
> > > have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that woriied
> > > me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there on
> > > false pretenses. (I just want the truth)
> > >
> > > I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me that
> > > Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I dont
> > > whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If
> > > anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do this
> > > please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I am
> > > giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
> > > ————– Original message ————–
> > >
> > > > THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
> > > > Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this till
> > > > we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all
> > > agree
> > > > that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
> > > > It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to
> > >
> > > > lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It makes me
> > > > postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support
> > > of
> > > > my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
> > > > case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
> > > through
> > > > the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
> > > ibogaine,
> > > > I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority of the
> > >
> > > > people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
> > > > It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
> > > > accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
> > > > Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving
> > > lives.
> > > >
> > > > love
> > > > tink
> > > >
> > > > On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you
> > > guy’s are
> > > > > the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to
> > > wait to get
> > > > > your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to
> > > save enough
> > > > > money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even
> > > at NYC
> > > > > prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that
> > > baby that
> > > > > needs milk and your old lady
> > > > > needs……………………………… you get my drift
> > > > > here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances,
> > > old needles,
> > > > > whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
> > > treatment. Here’s
> > > > > Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a
> > > needle
> > > > > that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it.
> > > This all
> > > > > hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right
> > > fucking now
> > > > > dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough
> > > to get
> > > > > through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need
> > > treatment
> > > > > as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a
> > > get a tan at
> > > > > the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I
> > > couldn’t afford
> > > > > to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind
> > > enough to treat
> > > > > me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another
> > > cold turkey
> > > > > and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because
> > > I couldn’t
> > > > > take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody?
> > > How many of
> > > > > these people die and we never even here about it? While these
> > > people wait
> > > > > for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make
> > > it legal,
> > > > > people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some
> > > of them to
> > > > > go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS
> > > it won’t
> > > > > hurt your stats any huh. Randy
> > > > > —–Original Message—–
> > > > > From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
> > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
> > > treatment
> > > > > illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are
> > > many who
> > > > > where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had
> > > competent
> > > > > experts there to treat every possible emergency.
> > > > >
> > > > > If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this
> > > to everyone
> > > > > for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body
> > > equals an
> > > > > ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this
> > > drug.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have
> > > died anyway.
> > > > > But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and
> > > others
> > > > > work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
> > > nonprofessionals acting
> > > > > as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > > >
> > >
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> >
> >
>
>
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>

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee
Date: June 5, 2005 at 1:06:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

speaking of which, i watched that csi episode on ibogaine. i should’ve
kept tabs on how many times i said “no freaking way..”

On 6/5/05, tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
tink has declared dana a GAWD!!!
get it straight :}

On 6/5/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience  just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking  almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 12:46:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

only you can make this decision, steve.
don’t blow a gasket in the interim trying to weigh the options, it’ll
only make you crazier.  Perhaps you might want to look into that pot
option… :]
luv tink
On 6/5/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve not to disrespect you which is what everyone says right before
they do right? 😉 Only knowing you by what you’re writing here you
sound like a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac who will drive any
treatment provider crazy.

Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and will
have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug you
into every machine that’s ever been invented. or go to Mexico and have
them sign a agreement promising not to kill you either and if they do,
your family can sue them, or go to Sara and smoke a lottttt of pot and
calm down. Your family won’t be able to sue Sara because she’s
protected by spirit guides and doesn’t need lawyers.

I’d go with Sara but I’m not a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac I’m a
run of the mill neurotic college student without a addiction 🙂

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in my
heart the gigs up. My  family was talking about me this weekend at
the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family thinks
that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that quit my
business because of the diffenece in me.

I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are saying.”you
know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about this
story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because I had
so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But when you
are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to my
brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!. I
have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt the
reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery and
realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually didnt love
them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed many
times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying. Since
then I have just kept increasing my dosage and  justifying it because
I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But guess
what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my dog. I
will shower about every third day but you would never know because I
was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess what. I
am ok(as far as they are concerned)

Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to bore
you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part that I
want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on Ibogaine and
I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at it. My
problem is that I have never seen or read about something that has so
many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE DOING
THIS!!  I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I cant
break this without help. But I am the person that needs assurances of
things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never had
nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for
months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing this. I
have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in control
of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this to as
far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I get
comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can die
on this.

A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I know
what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I have
control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get comfortable
with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are criminals
that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she was
nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I took to a
local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to some
people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I own a
business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
reference that will embellish my results.

I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going to be
the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking come on I
have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that woriied
me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there on
false pretenses. (I just want the truth)

I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me that
Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I dont
whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If
anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do this
please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I am
giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
————– Original message ————–

THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this till
we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all
agree
that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to

lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It makes me
postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support
of
my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
through
the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
ibogaine,
I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority of the

people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving
lives.

love
tink

On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:

OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you
guy’s are
the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to
wait to get
your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to
save enough
money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even
at NYC
prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that
baby that
needs milk and your old lady
needs……………………………… you get my drift
here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances,
old needles,
whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
treatment. Here’s
Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a
needle
that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it.
This all
hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right
fucking now
dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough
to get
through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need
treatment
as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a
get a tan at
the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I
couldn’t afford
to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind
enough to treat
me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another
cold turkey
and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because
I couldn’t
take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody?
How many of
these people die and we never even here about it? While these
people wait
for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make
it legal,
people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some
of them to
go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS
it won’t
hurt your stats any huh. Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
treatment
illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are
many who
where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had
competent
experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this
to everyone
for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body
equals an
ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this
drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have
died anyway.
But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and
others
work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
nonprofessionals acting
as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] lee
Date: June 5, 2005 at 12:41:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tink has declared dana a GAWD!!!
get it straight :}

On 6/5/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience  just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking  almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] lee
Date: June 5, 2005 at 12:38:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee going with what Sara said 🙂 Do you do any of what you’re writing
about ever, have you ever detoxed anyone or have any real experience
with what you’re saying or do you make this up as you write it?

You post these pronouncements all the time but are you doing creative
writing or posting real experience, because you keep changing what you
say every couple weeks are you working with anyone besides yourself?

Not a dis for real, I like you in the same way I like Dana Beal at a
distance 🙂 At least you’ve done ibogaine 400 or 500 times, you should
try to get Dana to do it atleast once then we’ll believe you are god’s
chosen one 🙂 Never mind it’s too late, tink has declared Dana Beal as
god.

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no
experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest
and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and
every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring
trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience  just walking down the road,
which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a
spiritual
experience without risking  almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment.
One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and
the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of
ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I
believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a
safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other
spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction
“right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard,
personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as
it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only
death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a
sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other
alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted
before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction
interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound
which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the
extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may,
for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there
lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas
further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they
better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There
are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it
that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be
aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at
the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision.
Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will
take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed
to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes
a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I
am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems
with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even
more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and
needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go
to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting
a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes
me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the
ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I
knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing
that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it
that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up)
I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do
detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the
point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and
I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed
people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting
as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had
these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone
that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it
easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it?
What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was
your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from
someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine
over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] detox
Date: June 5, 2005 at 12:28:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve not to disrespect you which is what everyone says right before
they do right? 😉 Only knowing you by what you’re writing here you
sound like a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac who will drive any
treatment provider crazy.

Why don’t you either go detox with Mash who won’t kill you and will
have doctors write you new and better scripts for all your other
symptoms, she will also wrap you up in wires and tubes then plug you
into every machine that’s ever been invented. or go to Mexico and have
them sign a agreement promising not to kill you either and if they do,
your family can sue them, or go to Sara and smoke a lottttt of pot and
calm down. Your family won’t be able to sue Sara because she’s
protected by spirit guides and doesn’t need lawyers.

I’d go with Sara but I’m not a paranoid neurotic hypochondriac I’m a
run of the mill neurotic college student without a addiction 🙂

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six
months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in my
heart the gigs up. My  family was talking about me this weekend at
the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family thinks
that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that quit my
business because of the diffenece in me.

I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are saying.”you
know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about this
story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because I had
so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But when you
are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to my
brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!. I
have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt the
reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery and
realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually didnt love
them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed many
times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying. Since
then I have just kept increasing my dosage and  justifying it because
I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But guess
what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my dog. I
will shower about every third day but you would never know because I
was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess what. I
am ok(as far as they are concerned)

Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to bore
you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part that I
want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on Ibogaine and
I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at it. My
problem is that I have never seen or read about something that has so
many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE DOING
THIS!!  I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I cant
break this without help. But I am the person that needs assurances of
things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never had
nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for
months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing this. I
have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in control
of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this to as
far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I get
comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can die
on this.

A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I know
what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I have
control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get comfortable
with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are criminals
that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she was
nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I took to a
local clinic that said that they had never seen something this
detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to some
people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I own a
business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a
reference that will embellish my results.

I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I
talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going to be
the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking come on I
have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that woriied
me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there on
false pretenses. (I just want the truth)

I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me that
Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I dont
whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If
anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do this
please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I am
giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
————– Original message ————–

THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this till
we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all
agree
that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to

lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It makes me
postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support
of
my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading
through
the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the
ibogaine,
I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority of the

people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving
lives.

love
tink

On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:

OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you
guy’s are
the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to
wait to get
your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to
save enough
money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even
at NYC
prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that
baby that
needs milk and your old lady
needs……………………………… you get my drift
here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances,
old needles,
whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar
treatment. Here’s
Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a
needle
that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it.
This all
hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right
fucking now
dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough
to get
through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need
treatment
as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a
get a tan at
the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I
couldn’t afford
to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind
enough to treat
me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another
cold turkey
and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because
I couldn’t
take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody?
How many of
these people die and we never even here about it? While these
people wait
for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make
it legal,
people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some
of them to
go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS
it won’t
hurt your stats any huh. Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount
treatment
illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are
many who
where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had
competent
experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this
to everyone
for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body
equals an
ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this
drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have
died anyway.
But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and
others
work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning
nonprofessionals acting
as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 11:41:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everyone I have been very quiet for about six months and lately I have been psting more and more. I know in my heart the gigs up. My  family was talking about me this weekend at the cookout. My brother called me and said that the family thinks that you are on DRUGS!!. I had a guy that worked for me that quit my business because of the diffenece in me.

I am(was) a very respected businessman and now people are saying.”you know that Steve is doing drugs dont you” What is funny about this story is that for years I got accused of being on drugs because I had so much energy and wasnt. So the rumors dont ring home. But when you are doing them it is a whole different thing. I had to lie to my brother. I am at a crossroads and I have to do somethung NOW!!. I have talked to some of you, some off list.For you that I didnt the reason for my initial start with drugs was when I had surgery and realized that I loved theses litlle blue pills. I actually didnt love them at first I think that I have had hydrocodone presribed many times before but this time I realized it made me quit worrying. Since then I have just kept increasing my dosage and  justifying it because I am (was) so upbeat on them. They made me a superstar. But guess what not now. My day consist of locked up in a room with my dog. I will shower about every third day but you would never know because I was gifted with decent looks and I throw a hat on and guess what. I am ok(as far as they are concerned)

Anyway I am going to stop my story there because I dont want to bore you and I dont want you to erase ot before you get to the part that I want everyone to see. I have studied as much as I can on Ibogaine and I know that I need it. I need some spirituality while I am at it. My problem is that I have never seen or read about something that has so many conflicted reports. I have one issue. I DONT WANT TO DIE DOING THIS!!  I take hydrocodone by pill and I am very addicted and I cant break this without help. But I am the person that needs assurances of things. I am a 40 year old guy that looks younger(or did)never had nothing more serious than a bleeding ulcer and I have tried for months to get enough info on this to feel comfortable doing this. I have very high anxiety at times. It kicks in when I am not in control of a situation. I have tried to find something to relate this to as far as the odds of you dying while doing this. But right as I get comfortable with it I read on here or somewhere that people can die on this.

A healthy person performing with appropiate protocol can die. I know what some will say “you can die walking across the street” I have control of that somewhat. I can look both ways. I get comfortable with a care giver and then I hear stories that they are criminals that has had to change there name. I talked to Dr Mash and she was nice but busy and they faxed me a chemistry protocol that I took to a local clinic that said that they had never seen something this detailed. “They looked at me like I was crazy” I have talked to some people that have done it and they say that it was great. But I own a business I put down peoples names all the time that I use as a reference that will embellish my results.

I thought about Mash’s new clinic in Mexico but the guy that I talked to was a (ex junkie) and was saying that this is going to be the easiest thing that I have ever done. I am like thinking come on I have rerad enough to know that it isnt a vacation. So that woriied me. That told me that they are just trying to get people there on false pretenses. (I just want the truth)

I have to say with everything that I have read it seems to me that Sarah has the most people that like, trust, or repsect her. I dont whivh of those words actually is best suited ar all of them. If anyone has anything to say that can take me over the edge to do this please write me. If I cant make myself feel better about this I am giving Bupe a try. That looks like a safe way to go.
————– Original message ————–

> THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
> Enough of the bullshit already. We can all argue about this till
> we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all agree
> that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
> It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to
> lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments. It makes me
> postal!! I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support of
> my family. Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
> case. Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading through
> the mine fields of sobriety. With out them, and without the ibogaine,
> I’d be dead. Not really fucked up. Dead. As are the majority of the
> people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
> It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
> accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
> Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving lives.
>
> love
> tink
>
> On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you guy’s are
> > the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to wait to get
> > your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to save enough
> > money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even at NYC
> > prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that baby that
> > needs milk and your old lady
> > needs……………………………… you get my drift
> > here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances, old needles,
> > whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar treatment. Here’s
> > Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a needle
> > that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it. This all
> > hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right fucking now
> > dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough to get
> > through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need treatment
> > as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a get a tan at
> > the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I couldn’t afford
> > to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind enough to treat
> > me cheaply enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another cold turkey
> > and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because I couldn’t
> > take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody? How many of
> > these people die and we never even here about it? While these people wait
> > for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make it legal,
> > people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some of them to
> > go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS it won’t
> > hurt your stats any huh. Randy
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> >
> >
> > Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment
> > illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who
> > where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent
> > experts there to treat every possible emergency.
> >
> > If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone
> > for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body equals an
> > ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this drug.
> >
> > Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway.
> > But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others
> > work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting
> > as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 4:45:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have had a lovely day in the sun, at a co op block party, complete
with samba drummers.  I take it you’re in the uk and it must be
raining as always? what ever happened to “to be in england in the
summertime with my love, close to the edit”
It snowed here on Cinco de mayo.  Yurgh.  I can’t say shit about
weather, really.
Healing emotion, i can see that, but only if you don’t let it over take you.
Have you tried meditation?  Or how about kick boxing?
They say that the rain cleanses the earth and your soul all at the
same time, so maybe you can go for a walk?  I’ve always enjoyed
(willingly) walking in the rain.  It helps me to clear my head.
worth a suggestion.  notice i didn’t say you SHOULD go for a walk in the rain…
:]
tink
On 6/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Tink,

Well, being pissed off I’m ok with really. I did so many years of therapy
stuff that I’m just used to it these days and can let myself go there
without getting stressed about it. When there’s a bit the feeling “Oh, I
shouldn’t get angry about this” then there’s more of a dynamic inside and
it’s more stressful or it can put me in a bad mood. Today I’m not in a bad
mood though the weather’s a bit shit so I’m not ecstatic either. Anger’s
cool. Alex Lowen called it the “healing emotion,” I always liked that.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 14:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

in a bad mood already, Nick?
Tranquillo papi!!
If you don’t like what you’re reading and hearing, why beat a dead horse?

On 6/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Preston,

OK, thanks. It just pisses me off to get in these debates where
a whole load
of retards jump in and just rant more and more bollocks,
avoiding totally
what’s actually being discussed. But, I’m getting used to it!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 02:08
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real,
genuine asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly
no need for
this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about my
anger first.
Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me frustration out loud
in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t
need to get
quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff?
You have to
know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is
such a case
of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling
the kettle
black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write
such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight
in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is
how reality
is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so
obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that
if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but
damnit Nick,
you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you
drive me
up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for
“ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my
reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them”
anything related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When
exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything
there”? You
might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing
whatsoever about
tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know
how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine
asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken
open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said –
if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff?
You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave
me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that
that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an
assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE,
etc, etc. The
same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post
I wrote and
laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t
directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go
for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s
green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my
post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine
because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to
get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just
manipulation.
I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on
anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on
yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter
person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still
hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very
slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss
it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually
really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to
that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I
mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years
ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally
traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your
eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of
Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this
help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s
really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for
your wishes.
I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position
though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t
be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.
However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled
many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,
seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you
really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that
road.  You can
read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise,
but there
is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of
it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get
your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I
haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but
would never
claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I
am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of
drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And
please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a
few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in
except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That
you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about
the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does,
and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types.
You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or
university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection
with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of
preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I
didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they
decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes
everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.
There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).
Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the
information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!
Profiting off
of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need,
regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live
available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally
great, and I
find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So
what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She
provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care,
and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t
care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just
such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: Sarah <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] DANA BEAL IS A GAWD!!!!
Date: June 4, 2005 at 4:31:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Dana!
You rock!!
Love
tink

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 11:29:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Tink,

Well, being pissed off I’m ok with really. I did so many years of therapy
stuff that I’m just used to it these days and can let myself go there
without getting stressed about it. When there’s a bit the feeling “Oh, I
shouldn’t get angry about this” then there’s more of a dynamic inside and
it’s more stressful or it can put me in a bad mood. Today I’m not in a bad
mood though the weather’s a bit shit so I’m not ecstatic either. Anger’s
cool. Alex Lowen called it the “healing emotion,” I always liked that.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 14:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

in a bad mood already, Nick?
Tranquillo papi!!
If you don’t like what you’re reading and hearing, why beat a dead horse?

On 6/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Preston,

OK, thanks. It just pisses me off to get in these debates where
a whole load
of retards jump in and just rant more and more bollocks,
avoiding totally
what’s actually being discussed. But, I’m getting used to it!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 02:08
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real,
genuine asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly
no need for
this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about my
anger first.
Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me frustration out loud
in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t
need to get
quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff?
You have to
know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is
such a case
of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling
the kettle
black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write
such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight
in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is
how reality
is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so
obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that
if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but
damnit Nick,
you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you
drive me
up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for
“ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my
reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them”
anything related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When
exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything
there”? You
might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing
whatsoever about
tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know
how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine
asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken
open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said –
if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff?
You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave
me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that
that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an
assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE,
etc, etc. The
same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post
I wrote and
laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t
directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go
for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s
green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my
post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine
because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to
get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just
manipulation.
I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on
anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on
yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter
person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still
hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very
slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss
it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually
really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to
that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I
mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years
ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally
traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your
eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of
Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this
help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s
really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for
your wishes.
I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position
though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t
be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.
However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled
many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,
seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you
really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that
road.  You can
read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise,
but there
is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of
it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get
your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I
haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but
would never
claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I
am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of
drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And
please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a
few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in
except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That
you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about
the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does,
and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types.
You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or
university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection
with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of
preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I
didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they
decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes
everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.
There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).
Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the
information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!
Profiting off
of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need,
regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live
available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally
great, and I
find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So
what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She
provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care,
and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t
care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just
such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 9:00:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

in a bad mood already, Nick?
Tranquillo papi!!
If you don’t like what you’re reading and hearing, why beat a dead horse?

On 6/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Preston,

OK, thanks. It just pisses me off to get in these debates where a whole load
of retards jump in and just rant more and more bollocks, avoiding totally
what’s actually being discussed. But, I’m getting used to it!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 02:08
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly
no need for
this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about my
anger first.
Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me frustration out loud
in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t
need to get
quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is
such a case
of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle
black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write
such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight
in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is
how reality
is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so
obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that
if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but
damnit Nick,
you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you
drive me
up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for
“ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my
reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them”
anything related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When
exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything
there”? You
might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about
tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine
asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said –
if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The
same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and
laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t
directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go
for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my
post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine
because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to
get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just
manipulation.
I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very
slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss
it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years
ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally
traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s
really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for
your wishes.
I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position
though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t
be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.
However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled
many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you
really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can
read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise,
but there
is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of
it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get
your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I
haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never
claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I
am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of
drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types.
You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or
university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of
preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I
didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they
decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes
everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).
Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the
information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!
Profiting off
of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need,
regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live
available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I
find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So
what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She
provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care,
and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t
care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] coupla questions
Date: June 4, 2005 at 8:54:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Welcome Home!
You’re in the right spot.  All I can do is share my personal
experience, and hope that it helps, in whatever way.  I’ve just
finally convinced the eyes to open, and am in the process of
caffeinating, so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed!
The average craving lasts physically for roughly 20 minutes, I’ve been
told.  I’ve used it as a guideline, occasionally counting off the
seconds until the full twenty minutes was over, using it as a way to
convince myself that if i got through those first 20 minutes, I could
then get through the next  20.  The seconds may pass like individual
years, but if you can put a bunch of 20 minute segments together, you
end up with a day, then 2.  Meditation helps a bit, if you work at it.
There’s one that I was given for panic attacks and the like, and it’s
a flexible meditation excersise, in that you use visually what ever is
in front of you to start.  When driving with my Mom the other day( you
need meditation and benzos to get through a quick jaunt to the store
with her-she’s a frightening driver :])I tried it out, and found that
it distracted me away from the immediate freak out. So here’s what you
can do.  I chose a bird I saw sitting on a telephone pole, and in my
mind went through where the bird was and what the scene around him
was.  Example, (mumbling under my breath while Mom looked sideways at
me with growing concern) The sun is shining on the bird, and on the
bird is a feather, and on the feather is a mite, and on the mite there
is an eye that looks back up in the sky and sees the sun.  Then there
was a rock that lay on the side of the road, and had a bit of moss, in
which lived a flea, who had a leg that stood on the lichen, and stared
back up at the sun.  It worked in that it interrupted my thought
process by forcing me to go into detail about something around me, and
allowed me to seperate the immediate anxiety out for a minute.  It
doesn’t always work, but it’s a good distraction tool, and it can get
silly depending on the flora and fauna in your neck of the woods.  The
sun shines down on the platypus that sits on a rock in the water,
where there is a fish with a digereedoo(sp?) who plays for the koala
that sleeps in the tree above the fish and the platypus?  Try it out,
it may help…at the worse, you’ll end up giggling :]
I’d like to suggest some sort of counselling for both of you.  Without
my group therapy and my individual sessions, I would ber a complete
basket case!  I mean, I still am a basket case, but a much more highly
functioning one.  I think that this should be right on top of your
list of things to do, especially if there’s anyone having suicidal
thoughts.  Having a support system in place for both of you is
imperative, and seeing a counselor of some sort together might help
you through some of the stress that addiction and other things put on
your relationship.
I saw red flags all over the place when you said that you had agreed
to let her use once a month, only speed?  There is no only once a
month, for me anyway.  Stopping your drug use has to be a decision
made by the person that’s trying to stop, in my experience.  Until I
came to the point where I was literally willing to do absolutely
anything to get and stay clean, I was relapsing over and over, and
though the time in between relapses grew after a while, it only takes
once to die.  There’s a saying that I’ve heard repeated to me over and
over, and it makes sense: You have to go afteer your recovery with all
of the vigor and enthusiasm of getting high. I’ve had an incredible
time of it, figuring this one out, and am by far from there, but
getting closer.  She has to want to stop and be willing to do anything
it takes.  It’s that simple and that complicated.  Again, this is just
from my own experiences, but untill I said that I was willing to do
what ever it took to stay clean, and then actually DID what I was
saying I was willing to do, I went through that miserable cycle of
using, a little here and there, then stopping, mild withdrawal,
climbing walls, clean time for a blurb, then right back to it.  I
don’t believe, for me, any way, that it’s possible to just use once a
month.  I’ve never had that work out, and I tried a million times.  I
had to remove myself completely from the scene before I got anywhere,
and still have to avoid certain people and places. Some times, a
snippet of a song, or a smell, little things, will bring me right back
into the heart of it in my mind, but I’ve learned how to deal with it
much more successfully thanks to some wonderful therapists.
Benzo’s have a rotten withdrawal to them as well.  Is that part of the
problem, maybe?
In brief wrap up ( I had two flat tires yesterday and have to go get
them taken care of-ugh!), I want to stress the importance of having an
outside support system for the both of you!! having a place or a
group, or an individual counselor to down load to , as well as getting
feedback, has been the key to my staying clean.  I go a minimum of
once a week, but when I started out, I went to group counseling 3
times a week, and individual sessions twice weekly.  NA has helped to
a certain extent, but that’s a personal issue on my part :]  You can
get an awful lot of info and help from this list, and am glad to see
you made it here!  When I first signed up, I was detoxing off of my
bupe, and having this list helped me through some excedingly rough
patches, and in all sorts of ways.
It would be lovely to hear from Amanda herself, and a bit about you as
well, Boris.  I’ve found that having a voice speak for me ineveitably
ends up with some sort of malfunction, and by making myself face my
issues by speaking up, or typing out, has helped immeasurably.
You can only change yourself, and be there to help another when they
need it, but it has to come from you personally(or it did for me).
Please keep moving forward! You’ve got a lot of good people here who
will help out, if only to listen and respond, as well as point you in
a direction that might be helpful.  It always comes back down to what
you find you’re willing to do for yourself, though.
Welcome home!
love
tink

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 8:29:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

OK, thanks. It just pisses me off to get in these debates where a whole load
of retards jump in and just rant more and more bollocks, avoiding totally
what’s actually being discussed. But, I’m getting used to it!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 02:08
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly
no need for
this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about my
anger first.
Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me frustration out loud
in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t
need to get
quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is
such a case
of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle
black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write
such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight
in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is
how reality
is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so
obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that
if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but
damnit Nick,
you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you
drive me
up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for
“ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my
reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them”
anything related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When
exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything
there”? You
might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about
tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine
asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like
I said –
if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The
same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and
laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t
directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go
for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my
post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine
because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to
get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just
manipulation.
I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very
slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss
it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell
them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years
ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally
traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s
really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for
your wishes.
I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position
though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a
good scream
at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til
then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t
be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.
However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled
many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you
really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can
read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise,
but there
is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of
it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get
your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I
haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never
claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I
am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of
drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types.
You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or
university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of
preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I
didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they
decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes
everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).
Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the
information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!
Profiting off
of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need,
regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live
available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I
find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So
what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She
provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care,
and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t
care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 8:26:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carlton,

Nothing can change you from being who you are. It can help you accept it,
that’s all.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Carlton B [mailto:carltonb@mindspring.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 01:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

All this makes me wonder if Ibogaine is really the life-transforming
experience that everyone makes it out to be.   I am somewhat
surprised that
people who have had their “heads broken open” or “lives transformed” still
find it so easy to be ordinary selfish assholes like me and
everybody else.
Makes me wonder if the “change” is completely an internal thing with no
externally manifesting effects at all.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 8:24:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 June 2005 01:37
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Nick,
You sound so petulant when you wrote:

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has this “you
can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip. And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know this.<

But what it looks like to me what you are saying when you write such
vitriolic crap is really:

“I can’t be in your club? Fine then, I’m not upset, you can be in
your club,
see if I care. But I don’t believe I can’t know what it’s like
being strung
out, so I”m going to insist I do know what it’s all about – because my
brother is an addict- regardless of what the truth of the matter is.”
I seriously don’t see why you don’t understand this Nick. And
you don’t,
obviously.
But I refuse to go through this yet again with you. But the comment “If
you’d taken enough ibogaine to really break open you head you’d
know this,”
is so utterly stupid a comment I’m amazed you wrote it. How the
fuck do you
know what tink or anyone “should” know, or how much ibogaine it
would take
for them to “know” what you “know”?

Preston,

Underneath all the flowery bullshit I feel it’s just the same old shit with
you, man. You write long-winded answers, avoiding any of the actual points
being discussed, manipulating all sorts of bollocks out of what is actually
written, then try and grab some sort of moral high-ground. FUCK I’M SO BORED
WITH THIS WHOLE MANIPULATING JUNKY TRIP. It’s just the same old bullshit,
man.

If you wanna read the whole mail, if you wanna actually put it in context,
you may see that what was actually being discussed which has fuck all to do
with what you’re writing about.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and life tranforamtion
Date: June 4, 2005 at 7:50:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just because now our actions and thoughts resemble our old way of thinking that does not neseciraly sugest that iboga lacks the power to be a life transforming experience.
At the end of the day we are only human beings who are prone to mistakes and incorgurities.  Iboga opens up the head and subdues the ego for some time yet the ego is tenacious and extremely unyielding, easily over powering any alruistic, empathatic, understanidng and most of all LOVING emotions/thoughts
After all is is human to err, to become enraged in trivial situations, to be swallowed up by hubris and selfishness.   i think some people are not open to iboga with their full heart hence their after thoughts and actions  are very limiting indeed.  When people forget their lesseons and maxims they have been shown through iboga way before the ego had its chance to work its way back i think it sugest not the fact that their heads hadnt been open enough but that they are simply not ready to evolve further in this lifetime. even if  they will be stuck with their insecurites and selfishness in this life ths will only give them a chance to work on other parts of their existence.   other parts that their whole self has choosen to work upon,….i think that to evolve higher into other realms of existence we propably need to experience all varieties of existence/feelings/emotions/vices and etc….

All we can do is examine our choices and ideas and try to learn from them so we become better people so we become this one beiutiful loving unit of a familly.  IWithout love this list wouldnt exist, this world woulndt exist we wouldnt exist!! Love will unite us all…LOVE IS A WONDERFULL THING!!!

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “Boris” <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] coupla questions
Date: June 4, 2005 at 6:35:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello list,

This is my first post, so firstly, here’s a quick introduction.

My name is Boris, I joined the list so my girlfriend, Amanda, and I
could get some understanding about addiction interruption with Ibogaine.
I know my way around this interweb thing a little better, so I am
writing on behalf of Amanda too. We live in Australia, btw, so some of
our “terminology’ may differ a little..

To give you some background, Amanda was addicted to speed for 2 years
(IV) followed by heroin for 2 years. She got off the heroin, after many
attempts just over a year ago, in March 2004, with bupe. Following that
she continued to use speed about once a week for about 6 months. In
August/Sep 2004 she had a brief relapse with heroin, without hitting
full dependence.. I had gone overseas for a month in September, by the
time I got back she was using 3-4 times a week, but then stopped, with
only mild withdrawal.
For the past 7-8 months she’s been trying her hardest not to use, and
through many promises, much boundary setting, many tears etc, she has
used on average about once a month, with very slightly, but not much,
decreasing frequency. H only once in those 7 months, the rest of the
time speed or coke. The longest she went without using was just over 2
months. Although at first she was trying to not use at all, we ended up
agreeing on her using speed every couple of months for a while longer,
because of the intense cravings, while she gets her life back together
and gets better at dealing with the cravings.

What has happened in those 7 months, is a pattern of a use occurrence,
followed by 2-3 weeks of relatively mild occasional and manageable
cravings, and then the intense cravings would start. I am sure many
would be familiar with this pattern of hitting the cravings wall At this
point she tries her hardest to control the cravings, to the point of
being too afraid to leave the house and being close to suicidal
depression because of their intensity. Needless to say, this has put
enormous stress on our relationship, not least because of issues with
trust and control etc. In the end she ends up using because there just
seems no end to the hell.

Anyway, thank you already if you got this far, now for the questions,
numbered for your convenience.

1. what would people recommend for dealing with the cravings, when they
get really bad? Techniques, drugs, medications?
Pot and benzos have a limited effect, but when the cravings get really
intense these stop helping. Mandy has been using Valium and other benzos
when she hits that wall 3 weeks post using, but eventually they stop
helping..
The time she was clean for over 2 months, for the last 5 weeks she was
using benzos almost every day, as much as around 20 5mg Valiums.
Which leads me to the next question:

2. If using benzoes for controlling cravings, at what point would you
say it becomes counterproductive? Ie the come-down from the benzoes adds
to the cravings, or the neurotransmitter depletion (benzoes deplete
GABA?) intensifies the cravings or the physical addiction to the benzoes
kicks in and the symptoms of that kick in and add to the cravings (ie
stress factors -> triggers). Has anyone had experience with this, or is
familiar with the relevant brain chemistry?

3. Third question is about “priming”. Ie having a little of a substance
acts as a trigger for cravings. This is particularly in relation to use
of mild legal opiates. We were in a car accident about 6 months ago,
Mandy’s back has been sore, she is currently getting treatment, but has
been taking Nurofen Plus (12.8 mg of codeine per tablet) and Di-gesic
(32.5 mg  of dextropropoxyphene, an opiate milder than codeine, per
tablet).
She found she quickly became physically addicted to the Nurofen, so
stopped taking it and moved to di-gesic, with which she has not had
problems, so far. In fact, one time she just had 5 nurofen, after not
having it for weeks, when she had no di-gesic (digesic is prescription,
nurofen is over the counter). The very next morning she was getting
codeine withdrawal. Codeine is turned into morphine by the liver,
whereas dextropropoxyphene is not, so presumably that is the reason –
her body is responding to codeine like it was a bit of heroin/morphine
and trips her opiate deleted circuitry?
So the question is, in light of all that, would the codeine in Nurofen
act a “priming” opiate that could trigger or intensify the heroin
cravings?

4. And the last question is regarding Ibogaine. We are considering
Ibogaine treatment as a last resort if nothing else works at beating or
at least reducing the cravings to a manageable level and breaking
through that wall.
Given the history of use described above, would just a small/medium dose
be more appropriate in this case, as there is no current physical
addiction? Perhaps a few regular small doses? Or should we not really
distinguish between Amanda’s case or someone currently physically
addicted and better go for the proper trip/treatment?

Btw, we watched the Rites of Passage doco a couple of nights ago. What
an awesome film! Both of us had tears running down our cheeks for most
of it, from the moment the guy receiving the treatment said the stuff
about waking up every morning sick and caring about nothing else, not
even your kids, until you get that first hit.. That film is going to
bring hope to a lot of desperate people! But you already knew that.

Many thanks,
Boris and Mandy

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 4, 2005 at 4:07:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All this makes me wonder if Ibogaine is really the life-transforming
experience that everyone makes it out to be.   I am somewhat surprised
that
people who have had their “heads broken open” or “lives transformed” still
find it so easy to be ordinary selfish assholes like me and everybody
else.
Makes me wonder if the “change” is completely an internal thing with no
externally manifesting effects at all.

life transforming an illussion.
some people get stronger and happier mentally,some will get their goal
because they feel more strength.
strenght which can be use by selfish assholes too.

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ATTn Cheryl —-Cnadian medical system
Date: June 3, 2005 at 11:17:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry I was somehow under the impression that Canada had socialized medicine where taxes went to pay for something besides bombing other countries? Sounds like the USA. <br>
Maybe if you were bleeding to death in the er they would have helped you faster or handed you a mop and asked you to clean it up.

<br><br>

— On Fri 06/03, matthew zielinski < mattzielinski@hotmail.com > wrote:<br>
From: matthew zielinski [mailto: mattzielinski@hotmail.com]<br>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com<br>
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:34:58 -0400<br>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ATTn  Cheryl —-Cnadian medical system<br>

<HTML><BODY style=”word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; “><DIV style=”background-color:”><P>Good evening Cheryl</P><P>the canadain health system is a joke……although we recieve free medical servicess ranging from燼n apointment with爐he doctor to having an ultrasound etc YET 爓hen it comes to ER visits the system is a huge failure!!!</P><P>after ibogaine i went to ER for my chest pains……i was a complete wreck–uncontroloble shaking,numb lips hands and feet, blurry vision, basicaly the爀arly signs of a heart attack—爄 couldnt even voice my problem i was so far gone—-what did they do u ask>? keep me wating for more than 6 hours whiie i was literary going in and out of my councisousenss …..just recently a boy died in the燛R in toronto because of the wating time he was subjected to…..</P><P>this system is faulty as hell…when one ends up in the ER its easy to see the reason why it all FREE….love u peace
<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR> <DIV>Namaste</DIV> <DIV>Matthew</DIV></DIV><BR clear=”all”><HR>Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with <A href=”http://g.msn.com/8HMAENCA/2755??PS=47575″ target=”_top”>MSN Premium:</A> Join now and get the first two months FREE*   /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: <A href=”http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html”>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html</A> [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/</BODY></HTML><p>

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 11:12:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know Nick and Nick don’t you run ibogaine.co.uk?? If you’re so angry at junkies why are you running a ibogaine site?
Not knowing you and only reading what you write to this list, you do sound like a angry know it all asshole. Now it’s your turn to tell me I’m a whiny junkie and should be more like you
If you feel better about it, you can shake hands with all the rest of us angry know it all junkies, because you aren’t acting differently then any of us, except even the maddest don’t seem to muster as much superiority about themselves as you manage to do with each message

— On Fri 06/03, Preston Peet < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com > wrote:
From: Preston Peet [mailto: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:08:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real, genuine
asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly no
need for this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about
my anger first. Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me
frustration out loud in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t need
to get quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

> >Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
> find that
> just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I
> said – if
> your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have
> to know
> it’s nonsense.<
>
> LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is such
> a case of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling
> the kettle black? Whichever)
> How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write such
> drivel never ceases to amaze me.
>
>
>> Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in
>> nature
>>
> when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<
>
> Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is how
> reality is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And
> you so obviously haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you
> can say that if something is just so for you it must be so for
> everyone.
> Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but damnit
> Nick, you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that
> you drive me up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like
> the one above.
>
>
>> Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
>>
> anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You
> lead
> them there and they’re amazed.<
>
> “You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for “ME”
> Nick? Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my
> reality is, nor tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually
> ever told “them” anything related to the above? Then why are you
> writing “you”? When exactly did tink “realize there actually really
> isn’t anything there”? You might have, but that says a lot about
> you and nothing whatsoever about tink, or me, or anyone else here.
>
>
>> I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good
>> scream at
>>
> you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I
> guess
> I’ll have to take you on trust!<
>
> You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to
> reach “reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group”
> would give you good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like
> a real, genuine asshole here.
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> often mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
> Sept. 2005)
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> —– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg”
>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> —–Original Message—–
>>> From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
>>>
>>>
>>> For starters, I am not using. I HAVE had my head broken open
>>> enough,
>>> and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!
>>>
>>
>> Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I
>> find that
>> just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I
>> said – if
>> your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You
>> have to know
>> it’s nonsense.
>>
>> As for
>>
>>> dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and
>>> I do
>>> respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
>>> Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was
>>> what
>>> I was doing.
>>>
>>
>> What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
>> reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc.
>> The same
>> old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote
>> and laid
>> something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t
>> directly bash
>> her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for
>> it that
>> you weren’t if you say so.
>>
>>
>> Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
>>
>>> They’re all different. I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
>>> special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green
>>> earth are
>>> you talking about?
>>>
>>
>> Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my
>> post about Dr
>> Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine
>> because I’m not
>> a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get
>> something I
>> need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
>> different
>> words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just
>> manipulation. I
>> figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?
>>
>> I accept full responsibility for all of my
>>
>>> actions. I own my own shit. I’m not forcing anything on
>>> anybody. I
>>> DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
>>> proactive in the recovery community where I live.
>>> You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.
>>>
>>
>> Have I fuck!
>>
>>
>>> And here I am, stooping to your level again.
>>> It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just
>>> as I
>>> do. I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person. I
>>> just lit a candle for you, too.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.
>>
>>
>>> Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
>>> addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
>>> would never try to under-acknowledge that.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in
>> nature
>> when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it
>> can take a
>> little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
>> experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
>> anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them.
>> You lead
>> them there and they’re amazed.
>>
>> I have no desire to
>>
>>> preserve ANY of my childhood. As you keep going back to that,
>>> perhaps
>>> you should take a look why.
>>>
>>
>> When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the
>> word once.
>> I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago.
>> Then I
>> figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally
>> traumatized!
>> Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.
>>
>>
>>> I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
>>> open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
>>> you’ve done is throw out insults. How does any of this help any
>>> one??
>>>
>>
>> Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for
>> what’s really
>> going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your
>> wishes. I
>> feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position
>> though.
>> I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good
>> scream at
>> you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then,
>> I guess
>> I’ll have to take you on trust!
>>
>> with love
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>> Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
>>> I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
>>> stupidity.
>>> love and serenity
>>> tink
>>> On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > —–Original Message—–
>>> > > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
>>> > > Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
>>> > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > I love you Nick. You’re right about one thing, I won’t be
>>> flexible
>>> > > with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason. However,
>>> there is
>>> > > no fantasy in my world about any of this. Fantasty fled many
>>> moons
>>> > > ago, and is hanging out with your reality.
>>> >
>>> > then why do you use the word “should” so much?
>>> >
>>> > > I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction, seriously. I
>>> > > wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really
>>> don’t
>>> > > have any idea about it until you travel down that road. You
>>> can > > read
>>> > > all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but
>>> there > > is
>>> > > no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that
>>> life > > without
>>> > > experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
>>> > > involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it,
>>> and I’m
>>> > > also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of
>>> understanding.
>>> > > I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your
>>> prostate
>>> > > examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I
>>> haven’t, but I
>>> > > know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would
>>> never > > claim
>>> > > that I understood all about it.
>>> >
>>> > dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
>>> this “you can’t
>>> > know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am.
>>> What > you
>>> > mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
>>> anything I can to
>>> > fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
>>> And if you’d
>>> > taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
>>> this. We’re
>>> > all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
>>> standard. You
>>> > learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
>>> fucking what?
>>> > You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug
>>> use? > You
>>> > wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
>>> so that’s your
>>> > trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please
>>> stop > using
>>> > this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.
>>> >
>>> > Nick
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg wrote:
>>> > > > Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
>>> If you ask me,
>>> > > > anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
>>> > > is living in
>>> > > > a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
>>> this junkie
>>> > > > bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
>>> unless you’re an
>>> > > > addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
>>> > > own terms.
>>> > > > Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
>>> > > chemicals, who
>>> > > > gives a fuck?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
>>> make a big
>>> > > > fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the
>>> stuff. I
>>> > > think it’s
>>> > > > utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I
>>> salute
>>> > > her realism.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You
>>> can give
>>> > > > professional care, that you learn in a school or
>>> university, you > > > get
>>> > > > qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
>>> > > it affects
>>> > > > you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
>>> you can be
>>> > > > altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
>>> don’t distinguish
>>> > > > between these positions of caring. To take one as being
>>> > > intrinsically better
>>> > > > than the other, I think it’s bullshit.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Nick
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > —–Original Message—–
>>> > > > > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
>>> > > > > Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
>>> > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
>>> those of us who
>>> > > > > has actually had the addiction, you might feel
>>> differently. Mash’s
>>> > > > > treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
>>> universal YES that
>>> > > > > got me there. It took almsot two years of preparation on
>>> my end
>>> > > > > financially to get it together. The fact that I didn’t
>>> die in > > > > the
>>> > > > > interim is nothing short of miraculous.
>>> > > > > It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture. It should save
>>> lives for any
>>> > > > > one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide
>>> it’s > > > > the
>>> > > > > only choice. Most people don’t have extra thousands of
>>> dollars lying
>>> > > > > around at that point.
>>> > > > > This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes
>>> everything, and
>>> > > > > should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
>>> generously, and
>>> > > > > with great love. I’m not saying dose the masses, but
>>> those who want
>>> > > > > it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
>>> safely and
>>> > > > > responsibly, and have the aftercare set up. There has to
>>> be a
>>> > > > > commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
>>> detox, which
>>> > > > > is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
>>> that visits.
>>> > > > > You get pummelled with it. (Giordano’s post Iboga
>>> training camp for
>>> > > > > the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks. they like to
>>> keep you in
>>> > > > > inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).
>>> Awareness is
>>> > > > > wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
>>> the medical
>>> > > > > community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the
>>> information she > > > > was
>>> > > > > gathering was made available?
>>> > > > > Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
>>> entrepeneurial spirit
>>> > > > > and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!
>>> Profiting off > > > > of
>>> > > > > other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
>>> something in the
>>> > > > > Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need,
>>> regardless of
>>> > > > > ability to pay? If you can afford it, GREAT!! If I
>>> could, I would
>>> > > > > pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
>>> It should not
>>> > > > > being a factor. Making something that saves live
>>> available only > > > > to
>>> > > > > certain monied people is criminal.
>>> > > > > It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
>>> with these
>>> > > > > particular demons.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg wrote:
>>> > > > > > Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great,
>>> and I > > > > > find
>>> > > > > it an utter
>>> > > > > > drag that so many people want to run her down. So what
>>> if she > > > > > is
>>> > > > > > business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She
>>> provides a
>>> > > > > first class
>>> > > > > > service, creates a baseline of professional care, and
>>> furthers
>>> > > > > ibogaine’s
>>> > > > > > acceptance by the established medical community.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care
>>> about
>>> > > > > junkies” or is
>>> > > > > > only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
>>> > > disempowered junkie
>>> > > > > > whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a
>>> pathetic
>>> > > > > trip to be on.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > Nick
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > /]
>>> =—————————————————————
>>> > > ——=[\
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>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > /]
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> /]
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No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ATTn Cheryl —-Cnadian medical system
Date: June 3, 2005 at 9:34:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good evening Cheryl
the canadain health system is a joke……although we recieve free medical servicess ranging from an apointment with the doctor to having an ultrasound etc YET  when it comes to ER visits the system is a huge failure!!!
after ibogaine i went to ER for my chest pains……i was a complete wreck–uncontroloble shaking,numb lips hands and feet, blurry vision, basicaly the early signs of a heart attack— i couldnt even voice my problem i was so far gone—-what did they do u ask>? keep me wating for more than 6 hours whiie i was literary going in and out of my councisousenss …..just recently a boy died in the ER in toronto because of the wating time he was subjected to…..
this system is faulty as hell…when one ends up in the ER its easy to see the reason why it all FREE….love u peace

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 9:08:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wrote in Nick’s direction >You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole
here.<
and I would like to immediately apologize, as there’s certainly no need for this, and I regret having hit “send” before thinking about my anger first. Sorry Nick and all for subjecting you to me frustration out loud in public.
I still heatedly disagree with your note Nick, but I didn’t need to get quite as personal as I did.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

>Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is such a case of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write such drivel never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is how reality is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so obviously haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that if something is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but damnit Nick, you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you drive me up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for “ME” Nick? Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my reality is, nor tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them” anything related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything there”? You might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach “reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group” would give you good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post about Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get something I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation. I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can take a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes. I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> >
> >
> > I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
> > with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
> > no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
> > ago, and is hanging out with your reality.
>
> then why do you use the word “should” so much?
>
> > I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
> > wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
> > have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can > > read
> > all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there > > is
> > no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life > > without
> > experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
> > involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
> > also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
> > I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
> > examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
> > know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never > > claim
> > that I understood all about it.
>
> dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
> know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What > you
> mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
> fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
> taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
> all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
> learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
> You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? > You
> wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
> trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop > using
> this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.
>
> Nick
>
>
> > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
> > > anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
> > is living in
> > > a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
> > > bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
> > > addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
> > own terms.
> > > Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
> > chemicals, who
> > > gives a fuck?
> > >
> > > Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
> > > fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
> > think it’s
> > > utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
> > her realism.
> > >
> > > When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
> > > professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you > > > get
> > > qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
> > it affects
> > > you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
> > > altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
> > > between these positions of caring. To take one as being
> > intrinsically better
> > > than the other, I think it’s bullshit.
> > >
> > > Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > —–Original Message—–
> > > > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
> > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
> > > > has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
> > > > treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
> > > > got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
> > > > financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in > > > > the
> > > > interim is nothing short of miraculous.
> > > > It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
> > > > one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s > > > > the
> > > > only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
> > > > around at that point.
> > > > This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
> > > > should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
> > > > with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
> > > > it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
> > > > responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
> > > > commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
> > > > is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
> > > >  You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
> > > > the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
> > > > inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
> > > > wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
> > > > community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she > > > > was
> > > > gathering was made available?
> > > > Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
> > > > and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off > > > > of
> > > > other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
> > > > Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
> > > > ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
> > > > pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
> > > > being a factor. Making something that saves live available only > > > > to
> > > > certain monied people is criminal.
> > > > It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
> > > > particular demons.
> > > >
> > > > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I > > > > > find
> > > > it an utter
> > > > > drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she > > > > > is
> > > > > business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
> > > > first class
> > > > > service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
> > > > ibogaine’s
> > > > > acceptance by the established medical community.
> > > > >
> > > > > This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
> > > > junkies” or is
> > > > > only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
> > disempowered junkie
> > > > > whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
> > > > trip to be on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nick
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/
>
>
>

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\]=—————————————————————
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 9:00:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i love you, preston!!
tink

On 6/3/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is such a case of
the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle black?
Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write such drivel
never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is how reality is.
But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so obviously
haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that if something
is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but damnit Nick, you
are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you drive me up the
freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for “ME” Nick?
Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my reality is, nor
tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them” anything
related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When exactly did tink
“realize there actually really isn’t anything there”? You might have, but
that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about tink, or me, or
anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach
“reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group” would give you
good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole
here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to
know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly
bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post about
Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m
not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get something
I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with
different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation. I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can take
a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word
once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes. I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life
without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What
you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use?
You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop
using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you
get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in
the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s
the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she
was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only
to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she
is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 8:56:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.<

LOL! You’ve got to be kidding, right Nick? I mean it, this is such a case of the kettle calling the pot black (or is that pot calling the kettle black? Whichever)
How someone who claims to be so enlightened as you can write such drivel never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone.<

Good for YOU Nick, I’m so HAPPY to read that for YOU this is how reality is. But for ME, this is total and complete bullshit. And you so obviously haven’t a clue what you are talking about if you can say that if something is just so for you it must be so for everyone.
Christ, here I go again, letting you get under my skin, but damnit Nick, you are so fucking condescending, so full of yourself, that you drive me up the freakin’ wall with your stupid comments like the one above.

Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.<

“You, you, you, you,” how the fuck do you know what is so for “ME” Nick? Speak for yourself please, as you haven’t a clue what my reality is, nor tink’s, nor anyone but your own. Has tink actually ever told “them” anything related to the above? Then why are you writing “you”? When exactly did tink “realize there actually really isn’t anything there”? You might have, but that says a lot about you and nothing whatsoever about tink, or me, or anyone else here.

I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!<

You want to scream at tink? That’s the only way you know how to reach “reality” with someone else? Being in an “encounter group” would give you good reason to scream at tink? You’re sounding like a real, genuine asshole here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post about Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get something I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation. I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can take a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes. I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> >
> >
> > I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
> > with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
> > no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
> > ago, and is hanging out with your reality.
>
> then why do you use the word “should” so much?
>
> > I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
> > wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
> > have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
> > all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
> > no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life > > without
> > experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
> > involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
> > also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
> > I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
> > examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
> > know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
> > that I understood all about it.
>
> dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
> know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What > you
> mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
> fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
> taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
> all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
> learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
> You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? > You
> wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
> trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop > using
> this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.
>
> Nick
>
>
> > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
> > > anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
> > is living in
> > > a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
> > > bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
> > > addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
> > own terms.
> > > Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
> > chemicals, who
> > > gives a fuck?
> > >
> > > Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
> > > fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
> > think it’s
> > > utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
> > her realism.
> > >
> > > When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
> > > professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you > > > get
> > > qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
> > it affects
> > > you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
> > > altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
> > > between these positions of caring. To take one as being
> > intrinsically better
> > > than the other, I think it’s bullshit.
> > >
> > > Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > —–Original Message—–
> > > > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
> > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
> > > > has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
> > > > treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
> > > > got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
> > > > financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in > > > > the
> > > > interim is nothing short of miraculous.
> > > > It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
> > > > one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s > > > > the
> > > > only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
> > > > around at that point.
> > > > This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
> > > > should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
> > > > with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
> > > > it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
> > > > responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
> > > > commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
> > > > is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
> > > >  You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
> > > > the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
> > > > inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
> > > > wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
> > > > community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she > > > > was
> > > > gathering was made available?
> > > > Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
> > > > and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
> > > > other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
> > > > Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
> > > > ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
> > > > pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
> > > > being a factor. Making something that saves live available only > > > > to
> > > > certain monied people is criminal.
> > > > It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
> > > > particular demons.
> > > >
> > > > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
> > > > it an utter
> > > > > drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she > > > > > is
> > > > > business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
> > > > first class
> > > > > service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
> > > > ibogaine’s
> > > > > acceptance by the established medical community.
> > > > >
> > > > > This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
> > > > junkies” or is
> > > > > only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
> > disempowered junkie
> > > > > whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
> > > > trip to be on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nick
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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>

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From: “Carlton B” <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 8:45:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All this makes me wonder if Ibogaine is really the life-transforming
experience that everyone makes it out to be.   I am somewhat surprised that
people who have had their “heads broken open” or “lives transformed” still
find it so easy to be ordinary selfish assholes like me and everybody else.
Makes me wonder if the “change” is completely an internal thing with no
externally manifesting effects at all.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 8:36:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
You sound so petulant when you wrote:

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip. And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know this.<

But what it looks like to me what you are saying when you write such vitriolic crap is really:

“I can’t be in your club? Fine then, I’m not upset, you can be in your club, see if I care. But I don’t believe I can’t know what it’s like being strung out, so I”m going to insist I do know what it’s all about – because my brother is an addict- regardless of what the truth of the matter is.”
I seriously don’t see why you don’t understand this Nick. And you don’t, obviously.
But I refuse to go through this yet again with you. But the comment “If you’d taken enough ibogaine to really break open you head you’d know this,” is so utterly stupid a comment I’m amazed you wrote it. How the fuck do you know what tink or anyone “should” know, or how much ibogaine it would take for them to “know” what you “know”?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip. And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK, so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask > me,
> anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
> a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
> bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
> addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
> Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
> gives a fuck?
>
> Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
> fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
> utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.
>
> When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
> professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
> qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
> you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
> altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t > distinguish
> between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
> than the other, I think it’s bullshit.
>
> Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> >
> >
> > The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us > > who
> > has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
> > treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
> > got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
> > financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
> > interim is nothing short of miraculous.
> > It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
> > one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
> > only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
> > around at that point.
> > This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
> > should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
> > with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
> > it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
> > responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
> > commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, > > which
> > is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that > > visits.
> >  You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
> > the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
> > inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
> > wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
> > community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
> > gathering was made available?
> > Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
> > and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
> > other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
> > Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
> > ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
> > pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
> > being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
> > certain monied people is criminal.
> > It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
> > particular demons.
> >
> > On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
> > it an utter
> > > drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
> > > business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
> > first class
> > > service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
> > ibogaine’s
> > > acceptance by the established medical community.
> > >
> > > This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
> > junkies” or is
> > > only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
> > > whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
> > trip to be on.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 8:29:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you’re not so bad yourself, mr peet!!
wow. what a day.
love ya
tink

On 6/3/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
tink wrote >I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your
prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.<

Bingo! Well said Tink.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.
I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences is living
in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used chemicals,
who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute her
realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person, it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being intrinsically
better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 8:27:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tink wrote >I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.<

Bingo! Well said Tink.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.
I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person, it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

> —–Original Message—–
> From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
> Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
>
>
> The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
> has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
> treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
> got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
> financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
> interim is nothing short of miraculous.
> It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
> one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
> only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
> around at that point.
> This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
> should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
> with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
> it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
> responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
> commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
> is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
>  You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
> the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
> inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
> wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
> community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
> gathering was made available?
> Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
> and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
> other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
> Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
> ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
> pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
> being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
> certain monied people is criminal.
> It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
> particular demons.
>
> On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
> it an utter
> > drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
> > business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
> first class
> > service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
> ibogaine’s
> > acceptance by the established medical community.
> >
> > This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
> junkies” or is
> > only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
> > whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
> trip to be on.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Story for Steve.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 7:59:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Captain,

Thankyou for you kind words. I am always listening, this list will be a part of me for a very long time.
I have such admiration and respect for many on this great list.

Hey,…Scotty,…stop beating kirky up.

So,…you wanna see my session do ya neighbour. I have posted it here for Steve to read, most have
already read this.

Steve if you have any questions on or off list email me,..if you want to talk on the phone then email
me and I will give you my number.

Talk to you later Kirky.

love, from Jasen.

>> I was dosed with the extract of Iboga.
>>
>>
>>  For the umpteenth time I was reducing of the Methadone, got down to 25mg
>> then started using( once again).
>>  I went up to 60 mg. This was very depressing, wanting to get off the
>> methadone and knowing that I would have
>>  to reduce again and go through all that shit all over again. As
>> we know to
>> reduce from 60mg down to 25mg is
>>  much easier than from 25mg to 0. If I cannot handle going to
>> 25mg how am I
>> going to go from 25mg to nothing
>>  Aaaaaaargh  f*ck, I can’t do this anymore, I have been trying
>> for many many
>> years.
>>
>>  I was quickly losing interest in living, I just wanted to go home to the
>> other side. Being addicted to opiates for 23
>>  years had become to much to bear. I was at my wits end. I was giving
>> up,..going down fast.
>>
>>  One day soon after in utter despair, I had a thought come into my head,
>> “Hang in there, it’s almost over. Being desperate
>>  to be pulled out of the ocean of addiction, I held onto the thought. How
>> could this be nearly over, it will take another year
>>  at least to reduce of 60mg. The thought kept coming to me over and over
>> again, “hang in there, it’s almost over. I started
>>  to get some hope back. I thought the only way this can be over
>> quick is if
>> I find a great rehab” and come straight off.
>>
>> (I believe the voice in my head was my brother who passed on)(He also
>> battled with addiction all his life)
>>
>>  I started to search the internet and found this great rehab in the states
>> that uses some of Ron Hubbard’s techniques. Nutrition,
>>  Sauna and other things. I had heard of this type of treatment before and
>> was hopeful. I contacted them and spoke to this great
>>  guy, I am sorry that I cannot remember his name.
>>
>>  This man told me that I need to detox before coming to the rehab’ and
>> advised me of a couple of methods, one of which was
>>  the controversial Ibogaine/Iboga. He gave me the “mindvox” Ibogaine site.
>>
>>  I logged onto this site and started talking to some of the people and
>> reading as much as I could absorb on Ibogaine. I was fortunate
>>  to be able to talk to a few people before treatment during and after,
>> Howard,Randy, Julie, Sean and others.
>>
>>  The surge of hope flowing through me again was incredible, I could see a
>> way out. (I am getting goose bumps).
>>
>>  I applied for a loan and got it (whew). I spoke to some
>> providers and then
>> rang Sara in Amsterdam. It was booked and organised.
>>
>>  I took with me 600mg of physeptone (Methadone in a tablet) and worked out
>> that if I triple dosed for the next 3 days or so I would
>>  be finished them as I got to Sara’s, the final stone on opiates before
>> detoxing.
>>
>>  I got to Amsterdam airport and was warmly greeted with a hug
>> from Sara. We
>> jumped into the car and drove to her place. I gave
>>  Sara what little Physeptone I had left. When I got to Sara’s the fear
>> started to set in, this was it. Shit what am I doing here, I don’t
>>  think I can do this. No I can’t do this, I have to go back, for the next
>> few hours I am trying to figure out how I was going back.
>>  Sara could see how utterly scared I was and started to calm me. I
>> would have rathered a bear come into the camp to attack
>>  as I could have seen what I was facing.
>>
>>  I stayed the night and woke in the morning very anxious, f*ck,…no
>> methadone. Mmmm can’t go back and face everyone not having
>>  at least tried this.
>>
>>  I started to get a little sick in the afternoon and Sara gave me my first
>> dose of 1 gram of Iboga extract. I laid down and after about 1 hour
>>  I started to feel relaxed and more at ease with the Iboga, a slight
>> vibrating sensation, knowing this was a very spiritual plant I gave thanks
>> with each dose and asked for guidance.An hour or or two later I was given
>> 1.8 grams. The vibrating became more intense, I felt a low pitch buzzing
>>  in my head and a vibrating in my body, very relaxing,..no withdrawals.
>>
>>  I was then given 3 grams an hour or two later, the low frequency type of
>> vibrating became more intense, then I found myself in the jungle or
>>  somewhere similar. I was on a mat on the ground, there were 7 or 8 tribes
>> people on each side of the mat, they picked me up on the mat and started
>> wobbling it,…wobble wobble wobble,..side to side, I knew they
>> were healing
>> me. I was vibrating,..I saw my cells being vibrated, in my cells
>> were dark
>> blockages, little bits of black in these brilliant white cells, as I was
>> being wobbled side to side I could see my cells vibrating more and
>> more,..ummmmmmmm   ummmmmmmmm ummmmmmmmmm, the blackness started
>> to vibrate
>> out of my cells, the dark blockages
>>  were being dissipated to the sides of the the cells then disappearing.
>>
>> I was then given 5 grams, after a while there was like an explosion and I
>> found myself on this round medallion type of thing about 8 feet in
>> diameter, like a huge coin. I was spread eagled on this medallion
>> and could
>> not move, arms and legs spread out. One side of this medallion
>> was a brilliant brilliant white and the other side was pitch black.
>>
>> The medallion started to flip whilst going up, whov whov whov whov whov,
>> then it stopped on an angle, facing up at about a 120 degrees.
>> Then it felt like people put there hands inside my body, my bones from my
>> back and then they ripped away with a crack, as this happened
>> the back of the medallion which was pitch black, snapped away and even
>> though
>> I was still spread eagled on the coin, I felt myself falling into
>> this pitch black abyss, feeling of falling falling and at the same time
>> knowing I was also on the medallion feeling safe.
>>
>> The feeling of falling disappeared and I was still on the medallion, the
>> medallion was now only a brilliant white, it started to flip again and go
>> up, whov whov whov whov, making this type of sound as it went up
>> up up. The
>> medallion came to a stop and I was facing this most beautiful
>> light,…love  acceptance,..more than light more than love, I do not have
>> the words to explain such a sight,..a vast light,..like a liquid love, so
>> bright so expansive. I was a little concerned and I was told, there is
>> nothing to fear, face the light,..and as I did the light which was
>> everything
>> in that existence, there was nothing else, it started to move
>> towards me and
>> then went through me and ohhhh, what a feeling, I started to get
>> champagne bubbles of light going through me, up from my stomach
>> splitting at
>> the base of my heart and exiting through my shoulders, shring
>> shring shring.
>>
>> It was like I had to be cleansed before going any further,…like
>> trying to
>> mix
>> 14ct gold with 24ct gold,..if you do this you taint the pure
>> gold,..so I was
>> smeltered,..purified so to say.
>>
>> One of my brothers was killed about 2 years ago. As I was in this light I
>> saw his head,..it was moving from side to side with like white flames
>> coming off his head like locks of white liquid light, his mouth
>> did not move
>> but he was speaking to me, there was light coming from his eyes
>> and from his closed mouth, like he was facing a fan and the fan
>> was blowing
>> his hair but it wasn’t hair, he said to me,”You cannot die, you simply
>> leave your body behind and vibrate into another dimension, I am
>> still alive,
>> just in another dimension, if you want to honour my name, live
>> life fully,
>> and
>>  I will live through you until you come home..
>>
>> The love coming from him was incredible, he was incredible,..so
>> beautiful, I
>> still see him clearly.
>>
>> I was shown you are one with everything, I felt it, I was told you can
>> experience anyone that ever was or is, who do you wish to experience?
>> I wanted to feel what it would be like to be Jesus, as I thought
>> this, I was
>> coming into a body from above this being of light that had white
>> light as hair saddling his shoulders, as I entered this body of
>> light I got
>> this tremendous feeling of love coming out of my mouth and outstretched
>> hands, like beacons of light coming from my hands and a tremendous feeling
>> of love and compassion within and being sent out to the world, wow, I fell
>> in love with love.
>>
>> Pure and utter bliss.
>>
>> As I woke up I felt as if my heart was outside of my body, it was turned
>> inside out and twisted a little,..like a gene. I went to get up and as I
>> did it felt like I would leave my heart behind if I moved to
>> fast. Like your
>> stomach would feel as you go down a rollercoaster. For the next
>> 24 hours or
>> so I had to cradle my heart out side of my body, like it was my hearts
>> spirit. I would lay down cradling what looked like an empty space above my
>> chest which I felt was my heart outside my body. It felt red raw, inside
>> out,..twisted and it hurt.
>>
>> After about 24 hours or so my heart felt like it was untwisting and going
>> back inside me.,..then something started to fill my heart with what looked
>> and felt
>> like liquid golden honey, they filled it until my heart overflowed with
>> love I could feel the liquid honey overflowing and trickling down, the
>> feeling was so filling, the love I felt was more than I can describe.
>>
>> For the next 7 days I had no withdrawals. My energy was non existent and I
>> could not sleep. After about seven days I started to feel some
>> withdrawals,.about 5%. Not sleeping was driving me mad, I was so bored.
>>  I was listening to a lot of music, day and night, a lot of Pink Floyd’s
>> “Division Bell.”   I was so happy,..I am free,…f*ck I can’t believe it,
>> wow,..I kept thinking this and would cry with joy,..I am free I am free.
>>
>> After about 3 weeks I had approx’ up to 15% withdrawals, however they were
>> different,..not at a soul level,..more physical,..like I was just
>> sick getting better. I stayed at Sara’s for 27 days and in this time took
>> nutrients and Sara cooked yummy food, Mmm Mmmm M.
>>
>> I am now into my fourth month, still feel a little “not right” however
>> getting stronger everyday.
>>
>> My after care consists of no friends around me that are using, drinking
>> herbs and a lot of nutrients, they make the mind stronger. No sugar except
>> for fruit or an occasional short black coffee..smoking pot has helped
>>  tremendously. Exercising has helped sleeping. Socialising and laughing my
>>  head off is great.
>>
>> I went to a nightclub and laughed so much I got kicked out. Can
>> you believe
>> that.   🙂
>>
>> I have steam baths at the gym to help sweat out the Methadone.
>>
>> To help with sleep I took Kava Kava, Passion flower and Valerian. Also
>> Metagenics “Fibroplex plus”. I also took vitamin B complex and
>> other nutrients. Good food is huge and a lot of water.
>>
>> I also gave up many many years of smoking tobbaco. I still feel like
>> a ciggarette now and then, however the urge goes within a minute or
>> two.
>>
>> I still find it hard to concentrate and I get impatient. Normally I am a
>> very patient tolerant man.
>>
>> Any questions are welcome on or off list.
>>
>>
>> >
>>                                                                      love,
>>                                                                     Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: j0n….

Hi j0n!
I’ve used hydrocodone (um, think it’s same as here in NZ…. DHC?? Dihydrouscodeine? (sp…)) to alleviate withdrawals…. Helped having them freely available between seasons I guess…
Anyway, if Jase from Aussie is listening in, I thought I had saved it, but nope can’t find it, but his Ibo session (plus the way he describes it is excellent n all) is one of my all time favourites to read and I can only hope to have even a slitely similar session in the future, but yeh yeh We’re all Individuals (Just like everybody else…… heh)  and I’m also sure that others who are watching would like to share their sessions too?  I’ve been following Ibogaine since 1998……. Self-dosed non-pure ibogaine in 2000 and was just sick BUT not in the withdrawal sense and tolerance had dropped below half of what I needed.  At that stage (from what I had read… silly me!) I figured the ibogaine was just shite and it hadn’t worked so back into life, work etc.  Looking back now I see that in certain ways it had worked, and it’s shown me the importance of fully understanding and researching something before doing anything!  Don’t cha just love life lessons? Ya know I do!! (mutter grumble gibber gibber grrrr lol)
Anyway, stay tuned, and JASENNNNNNNNNNNN!!  Show us ya session!!  There’s a good bloke! Where have you been?
Luff heaps, and all the best for ya j0n when you embark on your journey (em-BARK haaaa!!, gee, is it meds time already???)
Kirk xxx :oP :o)

From: MrPure@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]At last some desent list fodder…..
Date: June 3, 2005 at 6:55:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have been visiting the list now since the end of January, and today I went thru over 100 emails from all you wonderful people.
the first email that set me off was the “Todd” email, obviously a very angry person who needs to direct that anger energy towards curing his son!  As for his taxes…hah aha…he will keep paying them, the gov’t will keeping spending them and nobody will get cured.  Besides I don’t think anyone one on this page is going to profit from his taxes.
the second thing that has been bothering me is this question of deaths….when I was addicted to heroin, cocaine, oxy’s(I think you get the picture)and I heard of people dying it did not stop me from getting high, in fact I would probably do an extra shot!  so why is everybody freaking out that out of ten years of treatments there have been very few deaths compared to people who have been treated!  is it me or is everyone getting paranoid.
I did my treatment underground in Detroit with 3 other people who all survived, ranging in various ages and addictions. we all knew the consequences, if we did not take the ibogaine we would all be dead anyway from our addictions.
I never preach about ibogaine, I don’t have to it cured me and I’m living as normal life as I can immersing myself into raising my kids and trying to be a good person.  For those of you who are thinking of doing it do it for all the right reasons and I believe it will truly help you.
I hope you all find what your looking for, I will keep reading the list as often as I can, all of your emails make a difference, keep it up.
peace, god save Dana Beal…!
James
P. S.  Good luck to all doing treatments soon.

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 3, 2005 at 6:39:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SEE, this is the kind of thing that is being propagated with this shit. This guy thinks that there is a chance that he could mysteriously disapear during an Ibogane treatment.       Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:47:17 +0000
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE

Vector,

I am sorry sometimes I am not good at writing what I mean. I didnt mean I would sue anyone. I meant I would want someone in the legal field to know where I am going and what I am doing and If I dont call on a certain date than they know to be looking for me. Thats what I meant about that. Some people on here have made me think that people end up dead and never found or dumped somewhere. That is all I meant. But thanks so much. You are right about the arguing. I am a easy going laid back person and I cant read the post, there to aggresive. But on the other hand people should not get on here and insult people that are addidcted to drugs. Matter of fact I may be the perfect model for that. I am a successful businessman and  respected with a very dark secret, very few know. I never touched a drug until I was 38 not even pot. I drank alcohol. I was completely against drugs. I had a surgery and fell in love with hydrocodone.I had one of my best friends committ sucicide over crack 4 years ago and I used to tell him “just dont think about it, just quit it is simple just dont do it anymore” I look back now and I am addicted to something and realize how stupid I was. I may helped him commit suicide by making him think that it was a problem with him and due to that he felt his best friend looked at him as a failure and could have sparked it. I wished that I would have been more internet savvy  and knew about ibogaine and could have tried ibogaine on him. So those people that get on here and say that people that get on drugs are the scum because they steal, etc. Guess what I am a fuctioning addict I have already thouhght out the scenario and I know that I would steal from my family that is how bad I need the stuff. So in short there needs to be more education. I have started noticing that about 80% of people that I am asking love hydrocodone. I think that It is an epidemic and it is getting swept under the rug!!!
Steve
————– Original message ————–

> I’m not one of the most knowledgeable people here by far. I’m just one
> of the only ones who has responded to anything you’re asking. Everyone
> else is busy arguing.
>
> The lawsuit wars were over patents and who owns ibogaine. There were
> dead bodies too, there always seem to be with ibogaine 😉 You sound
> like you’re looking for assurances and high profiles, nobody is going
> to beat Mash on that. What the best treatment for you is I couldn’t
> even guess, it might be Sara 🙂 With your attitude, Mash is probably
> the perfect fit, your lawyers can talk to her lawyers, except they’ll
> never win if you decide to sue her because you can’t even afford St.
> Kitts so you don’t have nearly enough money to sue Mash and win 😉
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Vector,
> >
> > Thank you so much you seem to be the most knowledgeable
> > here. I like waht you said about the media. I dont want to deal with
> > someone that flies under the radar. I want to deal with someone that
> > has alot to lose and well known enough that the media has an interest
> > in you. It makes for a very responsible company. Hey I dont want to
> > die!! I dont knoiw enough about this stuff to feel comfortable with
> > another exjunkie in a hotel room. So in short you answered alot of my
> > questions.But I do have one. You said that university of Miami does
> > not want to be sued again. What was it sued for before. I would like
> > to know that.. I have been on the phone today with the guy that is a
> > representative of the new mash clinic in Mexico. He made me feel real
> > comfortable. Hde was a ex jnunkie on Crack and she healed him and he
> > praises her.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower
> > priced
> > > clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash
> > doesn’t
> > > have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it
> >
> > > because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
> > > university of miami again.
> > >
> > > I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association
> > it’s
> > > all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them
> > and
> > > that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a
> > person
> > > but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look
> > that
> > > up on the internet too.
> > >
> > > ‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new
> > clinic is
> > > advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on
> > either
> > > one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication
> > advertises
> > > on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.
> > >
> > > .:vector:.
> > >
> > >
> > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Vector,
> > > > I have not been watching close to the post and your message was
> > not
> > > > clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not.
> > I
> > > > dont know when it happened. please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > >
> > > > > The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s
> > lower
> > > > > priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > >
> > > > > .:vector:.
> > > > >
> > > > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> > > > > > or another Mexico facility.
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,
> >
> > > > THEY
> > > > > > KNOW ALOT MORE
> > > > > > > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT
> > HOW
> > > > THESE
> > > > > > CHEMICALS
> > > > > > > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU
> > WITH
> > > > HER
> > > > > > CREDENTIALS
> > > > > > > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU
> > TRY
> > > > IT.
> > > > > > PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > > > > > > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND
> >
> > > > SPEAK
> > > > > > TO HER BEFOR
> > > > > > > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > > > > > > —–Original message—–
> > > > > > > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
> > > > unless
> > > > > > she can make
> > > > > > > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who
> > is
> > > > > > killing people
> > > > > > > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead
> > bodies,
> > > > not
> > > > > > one the last
> > > > > > > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine
> > or
> > > > are
> > > > > > afraid of not
> > > > > > > making more money. You would think after one dead body
> > they’d
> > > > at
> > > > > > least make
> > > > > > > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead
> > bodies
> > > > and
> > > > > > hiding it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash
> > is
> > > > > > expanding, St.
> > > > > > > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > > > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained
> > by
> > > > her
> > > > > > personally
> > > > > > > and it costs $4,000.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Less then Mexico.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know
> > she’s
> > > >
> > > > > > making money.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s
> > opening a
> > > >
> > > > > > chain of
> > > > > > > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and
> >
> > > > person
> > > > > > running all
> > > > > > > the sites. What are they??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > > > > > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
> > > > really
> > > > > > all that
> > > > > > > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
> > > > medication
> > > > > > than helping
> > > > > > > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really
> > technically
> > > > a
> > > > > > doctor either
> > > > > > > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
> > > > Brooklyn
> > > > > > and you go
> > > > > > > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open
> > no
> > > > > > matter where you
> > > > > > > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better
> > treatment
> > > > and
> > > > > > went
> > > > > > > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > > the same thing
> > > > > > > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not
> > to
> > > > > > mention doesn’t
> > > > > > > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to
> > break
> > > > a
> > > > > > dope habit.
> > > > > > > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
> > > > great
> > > > > > doctor mash so
> > > > > > > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this
> >
> > > > list
> > > > > > has many
> > > > > > > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can
> > rant,
> > > >
> > > > > > then what is the
> > > > > > > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > > > > > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the
> > risks
> > > > > > remain
> > > > > > > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
> > > > everyone
> > > > > > can cough up
> > > > > > > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s
> > hard
> > > > > > enought to comeup
> > > > > > > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it
> > works,
> > > > and
> > > > > > it needs
> > > > > > > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who
> > are
> > > > > > fortunateto have
> > > > > > > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
> > > > obviously
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > %] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email
> > on
> > > > your
> > > > > > mobile phone.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > > > > > > > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > Discover Yahoo!
> > > > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
> > > > Check it out!
> > > > > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > >
> > > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Discover Yahoo!
> > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it
> > out!
> > > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
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> >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
>

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started. – Extract/HCL
Date: June 3, 2005 at 6:20:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And once again Sara Glatt says it all. I love you Sara, and I still want to come over and take the Indra with you there. It will be a while but I AM coming, unless you run me off.          Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: sara119@xs4all.nl
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:36:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started. – Extract/HCL

>I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience just walking down the road, which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a spiritual
experience without risking almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,
>
> I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment. One
> with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and the other
> with “pure” ibogaine.
>
> Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of ibogaine
> on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I believe that
> starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a safer
> route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other spritual
> considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction “right
> here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard, personally I
> would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as it
> appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only death I
> am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a sandwich while
> unsupervised. Maybe there are others?
>
> For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other alkaloids
> lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted before
> on this subject except to say that I think for addiction interruption
> serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound which
> contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the extract –
> in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may, for
> first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.
>
> Of course studies are needed to prove anything.
>
> What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there lacks a
> higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas further. A
> few topics that might be considered are:
>
> 1. Treatment protocols such as ……
> 2. Advanced Screening
> 3. …… and so on…
>
> Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?
>
> All the best to you,
>
> Lee
>
>
> sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>>
> Steve,
>
> personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
> very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
> dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
> I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they better
> take the ibo rectally.
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There are
>> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it that
>> there
>> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be aware
>> of
>> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at the
>> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision. Only
>> you
>> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will take
>> care
>> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
>>
>> Nick
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
>> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to
>> have
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
>> yet.
>> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a
>> day.
>> I
>> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
>> amount
>> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41
>> and
>> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is
>> I
>> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more
>> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to
>> get
>> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to
>> sleep.
>> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a
>> day.
>> It
>> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot
>> and
>> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
>> hospital
>> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer
>> was
>> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I knew
>> that
>> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
>> believe
>> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that
>> I
>> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
>> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you
>> can.
>> I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I
>> have
>> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox
>> from
>> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
>> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let
>> me
>> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am
>> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I
>> dont
>> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
>> treatment?
>> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting as in
>> alot
>> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had these
>> ideas
>> of
>> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that
>> went
>> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in
>> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was
>> the
>> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your
>> mood?
>> I
>> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from someone
>> on
>> the list that sounded normal like you.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
> six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
> already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started. – Extract/HCL
Date: June 3, 2005 at 5:36:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that there is a lot in the mind of the people who have no experience
and just saying this and that….

yes there two forms, and for one person is the extract the greatest and
another the HCL.it is just who you would be speaking to.

I have treated the same person with the same stuff few times and every time
it was a different experience.

talking about both HCL and extract.

some wouldn’t feel a thing with 10 mg/kg of hcl and call it a boring trip,
others would have an amazing trip with one gram of extract.
you never know until you personally try it on your own body.
and see what both does to you, and until then all is bla bla bla.

you can have a spiritual experience  just walking down the road, which
will change your life forever. you don’t need to do iboga
for that you also can go to your local yoga teacher and find a spiritual
experience without risking  almost anything .

no one is the same, so one protocol for all will not work.

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment. One
with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and the other
with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of ibogaine
on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I believe that
starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a safer
route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other spritual
considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction “right
here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard, personally I
would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as it
appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only death I
am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a sandwich while
unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other alkaloids
lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted before
on this subject except to say that I think for addiction interruption
serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound which
contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the extract –
in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may, for
first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there lacks a
higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas further. A
few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision. Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a
day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the
amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is
I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to
get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to
sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a
day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I
believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that
I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I
have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox
from
ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I
dont
want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your
treatment?
In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had these
ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that
went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your
mood?
I
know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 3, 2005 at 5:35:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

krista,
thank you for the clarity i have been veiwing this site and wondering whats going on is this like some kind of bitch session but i was told that at times much neede info and insights would be shared i already got a list of my favorite writters and your name is on it is good to veiw the struggles and changes that the thinking of someone must go through in order to become successful in this new life but it very pleasing to see people evolve from the pits of dispair to the just so happy to be able to have a chance again . personally i’m really trying to keep that spirit going life is not easy yet and it requires much of my attention and presence a far cry from being unconciece in a dream that was my own unconciece dream that was hard enough to face let alone wake up .
i am in the movie , i wear a blue hat or my head is shaved i have 2 lines, you’ve been to more rehabs than i have.  are you having any visuals , do you hear any buzzing it was a fantastic experience to work with ben and william i can’t remember the other guy my daughter and son do they were there with me they loved those guys  i had gone through treatment there the year before so it was all amazing how it had come to be .

Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
I think they tried that, there are more ibogaine lists here there is
the sacrament list which was started for spiritual and informative
reasons I think and they offered to make whatever lists anyone wants
but it didn’t work because they die out after a few messages and
everyone comes back to this one big list.

It seems to be what people want, the mixture of everything. There are
a lot of very kind and informative people here and at times being part
of this place gets me through a rough day and makes me feel good. This
is one of those times where everyone needs to air their dirty laundry
or get angry and that probably serves a purpose too.

This is one of the kinder drug lists I’ve been on, because some very
beautiful people post here and run all of Mindvox, including most of
those in the ibogaine film, but none of them have decided to take part
in what’s happening here right now.

Mr. Kroupa, not to add even more to all the things you should be
doing, but Patrick could you start the Lets argue because we’re idiots
list? 🙂

You came in at a strange time, one of the ugliest since I’ve been on
this list when one by one everyone who is usually nice decided to act
up and those who aren’t nice or informative hit new lows 🙂

Ben posted his web site, it is at

http://www.ibogainefilm.com

It’s nice to meet you Steve, stick around for a while and then make
informed choices for yourself like Darkmatters said.

KV

On 6/3/05, stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Krista,
>
> I will only reply to either a positive post or useful info post.
> I am a very nice, ethical and good hearted person and sometimes I feel lke
> that this addiction was by accident and wanted on this list to relate and
> see what other people have done about there proble. I am mnot an Intelect
> but there are many people that know me that one of the main ways of
> describing me is smart. But I am smart emough to know when I feel out of
> place. I feel like that there are so many people on this list that are
> negative and closed minded. I almost wished that they could divide this list
> into four divisions. remember if we are addicted to drugs were are not
> considerd normal but just for this list sake you maybe.The four divisions
> would be( Physco)=drugs have made them almost not fit to live (Mean)=there
> mad at evrybody including themselves (Nice) A good person that looked up one
> day and in love with a drug and reallyu wants to change (Informative) The
> people that know enough through study and experience that they can teach us
> something. If we had that I would sign up for the Nice and the Informative
> only. If I had to choose only one it would be informative. Anyway you hit
> both of these and I thank you for a nice read. There are some good people
> here also Sarah, Boris, Howard,etc just to name a few but this argument
> stuff just clutters this stuff up. They should just start another chat room.
> Call it (Lets argue because we are Idiots)
>
> Steve
>
>
> ————– Original message ————–
>
> > It’s a beautiful film, Ben Deloenen is a very talented young man,
> > thank you Ben, the conference in NY was great and your movie was the
> > very high point for me which says a lot inside Alex Grey’s chapel!
> >
> > I do the same thing when I am down sometimes, I watch the film and
> > look through some of the beautiful books from the chapel. It puts
> > everything into perspective when I get tired of some of the pettiness
> > and bickering that goes through this list.
> >
> > A chapel full of different people all getting along and Lotsoff,
> > Kroupa, Kamlet and the underground treatment providers all sitting at
> > the same table making jokes, getting along and sharing.
> >
> > You did a remarkable job of telling the story of ibogaine Ben, your
> > movie should be required viewing for anyone interesting in taking it
> > or knowing what it does.
> >
> > Rocky Carvelli, your name is listed in the credits, are you in the the
> > film? Which one are you please? If you’re not the same person, I liked
> > your thoughts from yesterday.
> >
> > KV
> >
> > On 6/2/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
> > > I just received my copy of the DVD Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched
> it
> > > within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.
> > >
> > > There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the
> > > intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff,
> > > Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used
> > > Ibogaine successfully.
> > >
> > > Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has
> been
> > > going on in this list for the past few days.
> > >
> > > To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is
> misplaced.
> > > To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t
> > > know what to say.
> > > To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its
> risky
> > > business. Make an informed decision.
> > > To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no
> easy
> > > way.
> > >
> > > Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in
> mind
> > > that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own
> > > decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started. – Extract/HCL
Date: June 3, 2005 at 4:59:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steve,

I think you need to be aware that there are two forms of treatment. One with the Extract (ibogaine plus other plant iboga alkaloids) and the other with “pure” ibogaine.

Personally I don’t think anyone should be taking a high dose of ibogaine on first use. Its like a steamroller through a flower bed. I believe that starting with low doses leading to higher doses of ibogaine is a safer route for the body (as it accustomises) apart from any other spritual considerations. That said the reality is to break an addiction “right here, right now” a high dose is required. In this regard, personally I would, if I were concerned about my health, opt for the extract as it appears gentler on the system in my personal experience. The only death I am aware of is one guy who died from choking/vomiting? on a sandwich while unsupervised. Maybe there are others?

For ongoing psychospiritual work I prefare ibogaine – the other alkaloids lessen in importance imo. I wont repeat what I have already posted before on this subject except to say that I think for addiction interruption serious thought should be given to an ibogaine containing compound which contains many of the other alkaloids in the plant – such as the extract – in order to make it a less traumatic experience. I think this may, for first use high dosage treatment, be a safer route to go.

Of course studies are needed to prove anything.

What is frustrating is that no matter what we discuss here there lacks a higher level of discussion/decision making to push these ideas further. A few topics that might be considered are:

1. Treatment protocols such as ……
2. Advanced Screening
3. …… and so on…

Maybe we need a gathering of the Tribes?

All the best to you,

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

> be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There are
> unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it that
> there
> is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be aware
> of
> this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at the
> potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision. Only
> you
> can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will take
> care
> of that a bit. May the force be with you!
>
> Nick
> —–Original Message—–
> From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
> Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to
> have
> started.
>
>
>
> Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
> yet.
> I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day.
> I
> have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount
> will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41
> and
> I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I
> had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more
> stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get
> to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep.
> So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day.
> It
> ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot
> and
> also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
> hospital
> for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer
> was
> already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I knew
> that
> visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway I believe
> the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I
> had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
> diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you
> can.
> I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have
> general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from
> ibogaine I have to take on the Worry monster. I hope there is some
> medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let
> me
> paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am
> taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I
> dont
> want to die. If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment?
> In much detail as you will? As a general rule am I over reacting as in
> alot
> of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had these ideas
> of
> skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went
> throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in
> some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was
> the
> best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood?
> I
> know I am asking alot it just would make my day to hear it from someone
> on
> the list that sounded normal like you.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 4:12:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d love to go toe to toe in a session :]…
I have had a hard time of it, but am fighting with all I have to keep
it together, so it’s all good in the end.  I was one of mash’s firast
rounds, and a lot has changed, and drastically, in the last few years.
She used to answer her phone and emails, and when I met her, she waas
phenomenal in helping me to convince my family that it was a good
idea.  It still took almost two years, but it happened.
I don’t feel I got all I could’ve out of the treatment, thanks to a
hard methadone kick, but if I hadn’t experienced what i had, I
wouldn’t be alive.  It helps me in many ways, though another
treatment would be best.  You buying? ;]
Any how, I’m glad that you had you’re experience, and wish you well.
love
tink

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post about Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get something I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation. I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can take a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes. I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 4:09:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 20:42
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?<

Regardless of one’s views on junkies and use of opiates Nick, I
do honestly
believe that someone who has been “addicted” to some serious
habit they’ve
been unable to kick without some kind of help (or hellish
self-kicking(s)),
that they will be more able to understand where the currently
addicted are
coming from and what they are feeling. If someone has not
experienced what
an addict goes through, no matter how kind, compassionate,
intelligent, etc,
they might be, they simply cannot know what the addict really is going
through.

Hi Preston,

I agree, with a few reservations. Though at the time we were discussing the
politics of Dr Mash’s operation. What I didn’t understand was how I am
procluded from understanding Tink’s argument about ibogaine politics because
I haven’t been a junkie. Yes, for sure, addicts have first hand experience
of addiction and withdrawal, and there are times when only they know.

Nick

No qustion about it, and it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with
“you’re in/not in my club” whatsoever. Reading about something,
hearing and
talking about something, deciding one “knows” intellectually about
something, does not make it true that that person really does “know”- in
this case, what hell and turmoil INSIDE addiction can and does cause most
who have realized AND admitted to themselves they have an addiction now.
I’m honestly not trying to be argumentative, only pointing
out that in
this case, one must have some experience with real addiction (not second
hand knowlege through a friend or relative either) to really
understand what
all is involved for the person addicted. No question about it.
This is NOT to say that those who haven’t experienced
addiction cannot
offer help and kindness and compassion, nor that they are of no use in
helping someone who is addicted in their efforts to become free of what
their addiction might be- but it helps the empathy factor a lot if the
person the addict is dealing with has some personal notion, personal
experience as to what is happening inside the addict.
Just my two cents, in friendly fashion.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living
in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals,
who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute her
realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being intrinsically
better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 4:03:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was in an inpatient treatment program from Dec. 1977 until june 1980 and I never once snuck off. LOL I didn’t have to I was getting laid there. I’m joking, about getting laid. Kind of. Peace bro         Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:47 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.

swimming was always banned.Treatment is not jail and clients do not always follow the rules.They go off I campus on their own without permission at every center I know of.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:59:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 19:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!

Well, creating this whole “junkies only” zone in your head – I find that
just such a tired old trip. It pisses me off and I react. Like I said – if
your head’s been broken open how can you write such stuff? You have to know
it’s nonsense.

As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.

What I saw was people slagging off Deb Mash for an assortment of crap
reasons – it’s just for money, she doesn’t really CARE, etc, etc. The same
old bullshit. This I objected to. You replied to the post I wrote and laid
something out about how things “should” be. Granted you didn’t directly bash
her, but I still felt you were dissing her, though I could go for it that
you weren’t if you say so.

Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?

Well, that’s what I feel is coming out of you. You reply to my post about Dr
Mash, saying I can’t understand the situation with ibogaine because I’m not
a junkie. Like I can’t understand about not having money to get something I
need! Then when I call you on it, you just say the same thing with different
words, all the time avoiding the point. To me that is just manipulation. I
figured you’re covering up something. Is that unreasonable?

I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.

Have I fuck!

And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.

Thank you. I’m not so bitter, though.

Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.

Actually, I disagree. My experience is that pain is very slight in nature
when felt in the body. You scream, it’s gone. With acute loss it can take a
little time. The fear of pain, however, affects people a lot, in my
experience. Amazing when you realize that there actually really isn’t
anything there! Most won’t believe you when you just tell them. You lead
them there and they’re amazed.

I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.

When did I keep going back to it, exactly? Think I mentioned the word once.
I used to like my childhood til I started therapy a few years ago. Then I
figured – Oh God, it must have been shit, I’ve been totally traumatized!
Nowadays I’m pretty cool with it. For sure I could be more.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??

Makes me feel better to put energy out, to get a feeling for what’s really
going on underneath all the good-sounding words. Thanks for your wishes. I
feel pretty good now. Still don’t believe so much of your position though.
I’d like to see you in an encounter group so I could have a good scream at
you. Then we could both see what’s real and what’s not. Til then, I guess
I’ll have to take you on trust!

with love

Nick

Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this
stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has
this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do
anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip.
And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know
this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as
standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so
fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK,
so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really.
If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all
this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction
unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to
make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or
you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I
don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of
those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel
differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of
universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save
lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of
dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you-
generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but
those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it
safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory
detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team
that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga
training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to
keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular
the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the
entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there
something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I
could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.
It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle
with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] compulsive drug seeking behaviour
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:49:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NewScientist.com news service
Jennifer Viegas

Scientists have not only identified a critical gene involved in heroin
addiction relapse, but they have also successfully blocked it, eliminating
cravings for the drug.

The study was conducted on heroin-addicted rats. But the researchers now
think that, within a few years, better treatments will become available to
human heroin users who cannot quit due to insidious cycles of relapse.

“Many people try to stop taking heroin, but in a few months almost all of
them go back to using the drug,” said Ivan Diamond, at the Ernest Gallo
Clinic and Research Center in California, US, and one of the research
team.

David Shurtleff, director of the Division of Basic Neuroscience and
Behavioral Research at the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Maryland,
US, is encouraged by the research. “It will take creativity and additional
research to translate this into usable therapies, but it does provide hope
that we will be able to prevent compulsive drug seeking behaviour,” he
told New Scientist.

Reward circuitry
Previous research has indicated that a section of the midbrain called the
nucleus accumbens plays a central role in the “mental reward circuitry” of
animals, such as rats and humans. This circuitry generates feelings of
pleasure in response to drugs, as well as in response to other things,
including food, sex and, in humans, work accomplishments.
Drugs like heroin, however, seem to over-stimulate the normal reward
process to the point where users value their next fix more highly than
food, water and other essentials. In 2004, a study revealed that cocaine
causes a gene in the nucleus accumbens, called AGS3, to rapidly encode
masses of proteins that are involved in the cravings and pleasure
associated with the drug.

Diamond and his team isolated AGS3 genes and proteins in nucleus accumbens
cells taken from newborn baby rats. After cloning and studying the cells
in the lab, the researchers determined that AGS3’s drug-related functions
are most active in the inner nucleus accumbens core as opposed to its
outer shell region.

An AGS3 blocker was then created from a herpes virus. This temporarily
binds to proteins within the reward circuit and blocks the
cravings-pleasure cycle until the virus “washes out” of the body a few
weeks later.

Eliminated desires
Heroin-addicted rats that were trained to give themselves the drug using a
lever were injected with the AGS3 blocker into their nucleus accumbens
after they had gone through a short period of withdrawal. A small dose of
heroin then was administered to each rat.

Normally even such a tiny “taste” of the drug leads to cravings for more,
but the blocker prevented the addiction relapse by eliminating these
desires. The treatment produced no other observed behavioural side
effects.

Diamond told New Scientist that a related treatment could become available
to humans within the next couple of years. His colleague Krista McFarland,
at the Medical University of South Carolina, added that one of the
challenges will be to find a safe method of administering the blocker to
people.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI:
10.1073/pnas.0503419102)

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:42:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used chemicals, who
gives a fuck?<

Regardless of one’s views on junkies and use of opiates Nick, I do honestly believe that someone who has been “addicted” to some serious habit they’ve been unable to kick without some kind of help (or hellish self-kicking(s)), that they will be more able to understand where the currently addicted are coming from and what they are feeling. If someone has not experienced what an addict goes through, no matter how kind, compassionate, intelligent, etc, they might be, they simply cannot know what the addict really is going through. No qustion about it, and it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with “you’re in/not in my club” whatsoever. Reading about something, hearing and talking about something, deciding one “knows” intellectually about something, does not make it true that that person really does “know”- in this case, what hell and turmoil INSIDE addiction can and does cause most who have realized AND admitted to themselves they have an addiction now.
I’m honestly not trying to be argumentative, only pointing out that in this case, one must have some experience with real addiction (not second hand knowlege through a friend or relative either) to really understand what all is involved for the person addicted. No question about it.
This is NOT to say that those who haven’t experienced addiction cannot offer help and kindness and compassion, nor that they are of no use in helping someone who is addicted in their efforts to become free of what their addiction might be- but it helps the empathy factor a lot if the person the addict is dealing with has some personal notion, personal experience as to what is happening inside the addict.
Just my two cents, in friendly fashion.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash

Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person, it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
> drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
> business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
> service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
> acceptance by the established medical community.
>
> This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
> only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
> whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:34:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve,

personally I wouldn’t worry about that, I have treated people In a
very,very bad shape for the last five years ,basically totally
dysfuctional and health problems you wouldn’t believe.
I know that I work very safe, when a person has/had an ulcer they better
take the ibo rectally.

Sara

be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There are
unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it that
there
is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be aware
of
this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at the
potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision. Only
you
can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will take
care
of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to
have
started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where
yet.
I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day.
I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41
and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day.
It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot
and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that
hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer
was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I knew
that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway  I believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you
can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from
ibogaine I have to take on the  Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let
me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I
dont
want to die.  If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment?
In much detail as you will?  As a general rule am I over reacting as in
alot
of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had these ideas
of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was
the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood?
I
know I am asking alot  it just would make my day to hear it from someone
on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] was Mas/now prices in general
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:30:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

considering how much ibogaine costs at cost, buying it from the companies that produce it, PERSONALLY I find it a bit, oh, well, extravigant let’s say, some of the prices I see quoted. But then, many of these sources do offer other things besides simply some ibogaine to take, offering bed, food, medical supervision, a comfortable (I assume supportive too) environment, etc. But for those addicts who simply want the opportunity to buy some ibogaine and self-administer, perhaps with a provider, perhaps only having done their own research and made their own arrangements, I certainly am of the opinion that that should be possible and not nearly as expensive as some of the prices I see quoted each and every day. We should be able to simply order it at the what, $250 a gram (or some such outrageously inexpensive cost) from the source companies and do it ourselves (if we can find access to measuring scales that measure at the minutes weights we would need to weigh the stuff at, which are themselves pretty expensive I’d imagine). But it’s illegal in the US, so one would need to find a way to order it into a country where it’s not illegal then get it into the US, involving a number of federal crimes I personally don’t want to contend with whatsoever.
Still, in an ideal world, what with the actual cost of ibogaine HCL from the sources (not the root but the chemical) which make the stuff really actually being so incredibly low compared to what providers professional and non- are actually charging (and who can blame even the underground providers for their prices? They’re risking prison for some substantial time I would think in some instances, due to all sorts of illegal actions involved in simply providing one treatment to some poor addict, so….), we who want it should be able to obtain it cheap, wtihout all the extra “I’m hanging out for 12 hours and watching,” and “I’m putting my vibes into the situation,” and “I’m deciding whether you ‘need’ a 21 or a 23 or a etc, etc” and more. Please don’t get me wrong- I love my provider and am extremely happy to have made my provider’s acquaintence and hope to someday see my provider again- but will not ever admit to having done so wether I do see my provider or not, due to things like that ultra-scary new proposed law whereby we’re supposedly going to be required to report drug crimes if we hear about them. That’s got to be one of the most frightening bills I’ve ever seen.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic trip to be on.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: 01 June 2005 20:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and
get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually,
in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn
than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the
same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only
give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
> obviously not Tink

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________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:15:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Aren’t you the one who said a death is a death. FACTS STRAIGHT? What data have you seen about any of these deaths you are talking about and Ms. Mash keeps bringing up. I’m with Howard, I want to see tox screens and autopsy reports. I don’t like this argument, although I have been involved in it for about two weeks now. Most of us have been repeating what has been said for the last year or so. Me included. I’m not an educated expert, just someone who cares to his core about what happens to addicts. I know that the work being done at St. Kitts is world class and cutting edge. Some people leave there happy and never use again. I slunk from the underground happy and for the last 8 or 9 months I have’t used. I’ve heard guys down south say that they would piss on a spark plug wire with the motor running if it got them off this dope. I felt the same way. Extreme caution is the way to go with Ibogaine, no doubt. The providers that treated me checked my liver functions, my EKG, and told me that Ibogaine was in no way risk free. Nothing would stop me though, a lot of people feel the same way.                Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:50:30 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.

that guy who went swimming was my close friend. he snuck off campus after being told not to go in the water when everyone was asleep.. No on hide it. The family came down and all the coroners agreed it was an accident and a foolish decision for him not to follow instructions. Those patients are watched carefully for a week. It is not maximum security and swimming is not a group function. SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT>

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:03:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

absolutely right.  love to lotsof

On 6/2/05, sara119@xs4all.nl <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

then you also can say Howard saved your life.
without Howard Mash would be doing this in the first place.

Sara

the great part was 70% sarcasm..but she did save my life, in a way, i
don’t know.

On 6/1/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place
and
get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it.
Actually,
in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in
Bklyn
than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to
the
same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she
only
give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
obviously not Tink

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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 2:52:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve,

You have to have your body checked out as much as you can, and you have to be very clear in your mind that you want to take ibogaine. There are unexplained deaths, maybe quite a few, and so you have to take it that there is a certain basic level of risk that you will die. You have to be aware of this. From this, you can make a balance in your mind, looking at the potential benefits against potential dangers, and take a decision. Only you can decide. About this “worry monster” probably the ibogaine will take care of that a bit. May the force be with you!

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net]
Sent: 03 June 2005 05:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where yet. I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day. I have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41 and I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep. So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day. It ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot and also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that hospital for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer was already clotted. $10,000. Insurance too k care of alot of it but I knew that visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway  I believe the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you can. I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from ibogaine I have to take on the  Worry monster. I hope there is some medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let me paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I dont want to die.  If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment? In much detail as you will?  As a general rule am I over reacting as in alot of cases with me? I had a bump com e up on my stomach and had these ideas of skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was the best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood? I know I am asking alot  it just would make my day to hear it from someone on the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 2:40:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For starters, I am not using.  I HAVE had my head broken open enough,
and where do you get off telling me what my problem is?!  As for
dissing Mash, I give her her kudos for the help she gave me, and I do
respect what she does, but there’s alot more going on here than
Mash-bashing. I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what
I was doing.  Someone asked abut my experience, and I shared it.
They’re all different.  I’m not bashing anyone, and as for feeling
special about having these drug issues, what on gawd’s green earth are
you talking about?  I accept full responsibility for all of my
actions.  I own my own shit.  I’m not forcing anything on anybody.  I
DO take care of myself and am involved in therapy,as well as being
proactive in the recovery community where I live.
You’ve used the word “should” more than I have, by the way.
And here I am, stooping to your level again.
It sounds as though you have alot of work to do on yourself, just as I
do.  I’m terribly sorry that you’ve become such a bitter person.  I
just lit a candle for you, too.
Pain is pain is pain is pain, and whether it’s in the form of
addiction, spiritual, physical, emotional, it all still hurts, and I
would never try to under-acknowledge that.  I have no desire to
preserve ANY of my childhood.  As you keep going back to that, perhaps
you should take a look why.
I sincerely wish you the best and hope that perhaps your eyes might
open o the possibility that in all of your protection of Deb C, all
you’ve done is throw out insults.  How does any of this help any one??
Actually, on that note, I’ll take my leave.
I apologise to all for letting myself get sucked back in to this stupidity.
love and serenity
tink
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip. And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK, so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 2:20:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is another one I heard about, the drowning. Ibogain association i’ve heard of 3 deaths from ibogaine when doing ibogaine not 3 days later or after a week. If you add all the deaths after ibogaine how does anyone keep track of all of them, I’m sure mash has all her data, I’m sure she isn’t going to share it with anyone, which is the same thing with mexico, they got caught for the last dead body and cover up the other ones and it’s the same thing everyone is doing. The only group I’ve ever seen being open and honest are the underground, I don’t see any reports from other countries when people dose, like I see from here. How is anyone going to gather together any data when there is no way of making anyone cooperate, businesses want to keep making money and cover it up, the underground is helping and breaking the law at the same time, which makes all of this lead to nowhere which is the same place ibogaine always is. You can say people should do something but then there is no way to make them cooperate or do anything and with the underground all it would do is make people who are helping, maybe go to jail. Great deal. If you add the deaths while doing ibogaine, the deaths after doing ibogaine, there are a lot of dead bodies. There are a lot more live ones. Compare to the dead bodies you know about on methadone and who cares. No I’m not bitching or whining, I know nobody put any of us in this situation and I don’t think it’s anyone’s duty to take care of me, there is a right to needed medical care if that’s what you call it when you go to the ER. That’s another place america is behind every other civilised country, the message from this whole country is if you’re not rich or can’t afford it then die. Tell that to Canada’s medical system or anywhere in Europe. America, bring us your rich, the rest of you can die.

— On Fri 06/03, < HSLotsof@aol.com > wrote:
From: [mailto: HSLotsof@aol.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:20:42 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.

In a message dated 6/3/05 6:51:20 AM, Schmoolyboy@aol.com writes:

> that guy who went swimming was my close friend. he snuck off campus
> after
> being told not to go in the water when everyone was asleep.. No on
> hide
> it. The family came down and all the coroners agreed it was an
> accident and
>
a foolish

> decision for him not to follow instructions. Those patients are
> watched
> carefully for a week. It is not maximum security and swimming is not a
> group function. SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT>
>

Was an autopsy and a toxicology screen performed including levels of
ibogaine
and noribogaine?

Unless this a different fatality I learned of it October of last year
at the
American Association for the Treatment of opioid dependence.

INFORMANT: I hear you lost another patient.
HL: Not me! Where did it happen?
INFORMANT: St. Kitts
HL: How did it happen?
INFORMANT: Drowning
HL: Are you sure a shark didn’t attack them
INFORMANT: Possibly?
HL: Then I guess you have a shark related ibogaine fatality.
INFORMANT: Could be.
HL Thanks. Keep me up to date.

So, was there an autopsy? And was there a toxicology screen
including plasma
levels for ibogaine and noribogaine?

A copy of the autopsy would allow posting of a number of ibogaine-
related
fatality autopsies that may hopefully give some clue as to why
patients died.
For all we know it may simply be they fell victim to the higher
mortality rate
shown among chemically dependent individuals than among the normal
population.
Thus far disclosures of autopsies have shown no definitive cause of
death.
Just speculation.

Howard

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No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 2:13:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 17:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.

then why do you use the word “should” so much?

I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.

dear god, if I had a pound for every fucking junkie that has this “you can’t
know what it’s like” trip, shit, I’d be a lot richer than I am. What you
mean is – “I don’t want to listen to you. And I will do anything I can to
fence you off away from me.” It’s a bullshit isolation trip. And if you’d
taken enough ibogaine to really break open your head you’d know this. We’re
all human, and we all know what fear is. It comes fitted as standard. You
learnt a different way of dealing with feelings than me, so fucking what?
You get off on trying to feel special, having a history of drug use? You
wanna preserve some childhood fantasy world in your mind? OK, so that’s your
trip. Fair enough. But, please, at least admit it. And please stop using
this fantasy world to slag off Dr Mash. It pisses me off.

Nick

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences
is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my
own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used
chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I
think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute
her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person,
it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being
intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more
disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] And now for something completely different…
Date: June 3, 2005 at 1:15:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To Whom It May Concern…
I have a flare up temper and reactionary typing problem, and want to
apologize for my persnickety-ness, to a certain degree.  I don’t
apologize for speaking my mind, but I do for the tone it may take.  It
was not my intent to become negative or preachy.
Thank you BiscuitBoy for bringing up the silent observer’s.  I feel y’all.
My life is not all happiness, joy, and light, but it is a gift that I
occasionally forget and take for granted, and after rereading some of
this sniping, I feel rotten to the core for feeding in to it.
Communication is difficult enough without throwing bullshit into the
mix. This list is so important to me, not only for information, but
for the fact that I no longer feel so alien, and I don’t want to be so
negative that it turns anyone away.  It has helped to keep me sane and
sober in insane times, and I thank you all for being part of it,
willingly or otherwise.
I hope that I can remember that we’re all more or less on the same
page, and this lessens the he-said/she-said bullshit factor a bit.
Lightening up isn’t a bad idea, either, as, for me, I can’t live
without laughter.  I take this all very seriously, though I tend to be
irreverent as a coping mechanism more than anything.  We all have our
way of voicing opinions, and my armor is thick, as is my head at
times, which tends to lead to cryptic remarks, but I don’tmean
anything nastily.

Thirty spokes comnverge on a hub
What is not there makes the wheel useful
Clay is shaped to form a pot
And what is not there makes the pot useful
Doors and windows are cut to shape a room
What is not there makes the room useful
Take advantage of what is there
By making use of what is not

11th chapter of the Tao te Ching

love and serenity
tink

Somebody light candles for us all…they’re burning here.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:54:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love you Nick.  You’re right about one thing, I won’t be flexible
with my terms, but they’re in place for a reason.  However, there is
no fantasy in my world about any of this.  Fantasty fled many moons
ago, and is hanging out with your reality.
I’m glad you haven’t had the trauma of addiction,  seriously.  I
wouldn’t wish it on any one. The fact remains that you really don’t
have any idea about it until you travel down that road.  You can read
all you want and empathise, sympathise, and prosilatise, but there is
no way to truly understand the depths and nuances of that life without
experiencing it first hand. I’m not saying that people who are
involved with an addict don’t experience an awful lot of it, and I’m
also not saying that there isn’t a very high level of understanding.
I am saying that you don’t know what it’s like to get your prostate
examined until you’ve turned your head and coughed. I haven’t, but I
know the mechanics of it. I can empathise, etc, but would never claim
that I understood all about it.
On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person, it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:36:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Look, where do you get all these “should’s” from? Really. If you ask me,
anyone using the word “should” so much in like a few sentences is living in
a serious fantasy world. And please don’t come out with all this junkie
bollocks about not being able to understand addiction unless you’re an
addict. Mostly that means – I won’t let anyone in except on my own terms.
Everyone is an addict, one way or the other. That you’ve used chemicals, who
gives a fuck?

Ibogaine is a drug. There are many drugs. You don’t have to make a big
fantasy about it and go on a whole mind-trip about the stuff. I think it’s
utterly great that Dr Mash does the work she does, and I salute her realism.

When it comes to ibogaine and caring, I see 3 types. You can give
professional care, that you learn in a school or university, you get
qualified. You can also have a heart connection with a person, it affects
you when they’re fucked up, this you develop naturally. Or you can be
altruistic, your trip is to help others. Personally, I don’t distinguish
between these positions of caring. To take one as being intrinsically better
than the other, I think it’s bullshit.

Man, this word “should”, it’s such a fucking ego-trip.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2005 16:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find
it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a
first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers
ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about
junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic
trip to be on.

Nick

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 11:34:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The next time you find yourself in the shoes of one of those of us who
has actually had the addiction, you might feel differently.  Mash’s
treatment saved me, but it was one of those act of universal YES that
got me there.  It took almsot two years of preparation on my end
financially to get it together.  The fact that I didn’t die in the
interim is nothing short of miraculous.
It shouldn’t be a profiteering venture.  It should save lives for any
one who reaches the point in their lives that they decide it’s the
only choice.  Most people don’t have extra thousands of dollars lying
around at that point.
This is not like other treatments. Iboga changes everything, and
should be given in the spirit in which it heals you- generously, and
with great love.  I’m not saying dose the masses, but those who want
it should be able to get it, providing they are doing it safely and
responsibly, and have the aftercare set up.  There has to be a
commitment on the part of both sides, not a iboga factory detox, which
is what it feels like thanks to Holistic’s marketing team that visits.
You get pummelled with it.  (Giordano’s post Iboga training camp for
the wealthy, which is $8000 every 5 weeks.  they like to keep you in
inpatient for as long as the checkbooks are open).  Awareness is
wonderful and all, but wouldn’t everyone, in particular the medical
community, benefit a hell of a lot more if the information she was
gathering was made available?
Take the corporate aspect out of it, take the entrepeneurial spirit
and get it out of the treatment scene entirely!  Profiting off of
other people’s misery is abhorrant, and isn’t there something in the
Hypocratic oath about treatment for those in need, regardless of
ability to pay?  If you can afford it, GREAT!!  If I could, I would
pay for everyone who needed it and couldn’t afford it.  It should not
being a factor. Making something that saves live available only to
certain monied people is criminal.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever really had to struggle with these
particular demons.

On 6/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find it an utter
drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is
business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a first class
service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers ibogaine’s
acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about junkies” or is
only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie
whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic trip to be on.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: 01 June 2005 20:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and
get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually,
in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn
than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the
same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only
give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
obviously not Tink

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________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 3, 2005 at 10:32:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nice picture though 🙂

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:24:37 -0700 sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
sorry about that, it was for another person.

Sara, your picture filled my mailbox and I missed many messages.

If you could have sent jpg format it would have been very small.

It
is 4 megabytes!

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:30:11 -0700 sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
yes, crazy today 😉

I’m stressed that’s why, I paid 10,000 euros today for the rent,
next week I will pay another four,
so I’m try to read the news as I haven’t done for ages.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate
Program:
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Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have starte
Date: June 3, 2005 at 10:25:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine.
…I believe the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was
the
only thing that I had ever taken that made me not worry I
believe(you
know I am self diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet
has
made it that you can. I have been right the last few times that I
had
something come up) I have general anxiety. I worry all the time,
just
about.

Steve, you may get a pleasant surprise in this respect – I find
that ibogaine interrupts obsessive thoughts. However in my
experience it needs further work in therapy or ?? to stick. It is
best to start now, get familiar with whatever it is so that the
ibogaine will already have a useful context to operate in.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 3, 2005 at 10:24:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry about that, it was for another person.

Sara, your picture filled my mailbox and I missed many messages.

If you could have sent jpg format it would have been very small. It
is 4 megabytes!

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:30:11 -0700 sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
yes, crazy today 😉

I’m stressed that’s why, I paid 10,000 euros today for the rent,
next week I will pay another four,
so I’m try to read the news as I haven’t done for ages.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 3, 2005 at 10:09:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, your picture filled my mailbox and I missed many messages.

If you could have sent jpg format it would have been very small. It
is 4 megabytes!

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:30:11 -0700 sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
yes, crazy today 😉

I’m stressed that’s why, I paid 10,000 euros today for the rent,
next week I will pay another four,
so I’m try to read the news as I haven’t done for ages.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 3, 2005 at 10:00:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.lunartproductions.com/

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:04:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Where can I get the Dvd?

————– Original message ————–

> It’s a beautiful film, Ben Deloenen is a very talented young man,
> thank you Ben, the conference in NY was great and your movie was the
> very high point for me which says a lot inside Alex Grey’s chapel!
>
> I do the same thing when I am down sometimes, I watch the film and
> look through some of the beautiful books from the chapel. It puts
> everything into perspective when I get tired of some of the pettiness
> and bickering that goes through this list.
>
> A chapel full of different people all getting along and Lotsoff,
> Kroupa, Kamlet and the underground treatment providers all sitting at
> the same table making jokes, getting along and sharing.
>
> You did a remarkable job of telling the story of ibogaine Ben, your
> movie should be required viewing for anyone interesting in taking it
> or knowing what it does.
>
> Rocky Carvelli, your name is listed in the credits, are you in the the
> film? Which one are you please? If you’re not the same person, I liked
> your thoughts from yesterday.
>
> KV
>
> On 6/2/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
> > I just received my copy of the DVD Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched it
> > within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.
> >
> > There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the
> > intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff,
> > Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used
> > Ibogaine successfully.
> >
> > Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has been
> > going on in this list for the past few days.
> >
> > To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is misplaced.
> > To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t
> > know what to say.
> > To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its risky
> > business. Make an informed decision.
> > To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no easy
> > way.
> >
> > Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in mind
> > that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own
> > decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 8:39:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment? In much detail as you will?<

Hi Steve,
I’m not the one you’re asking for a description from, but here are links to two of my own treatments, the first one reporting on one last August, and the second report about one about 6 or 7 weeks ago. Most here have read these, but I’m posting them for your information. (There’s also a brief interview I did with the guy who supplied the first underground treatments last year here, at this URL: http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm)

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004

Ibogaine
“Watch for communications soon from another friend of ours,” the Voice said, almost giggling with glee. “He’s gonna have a number for you to call, to get in touch with some folk doing underground, guerilla ibogaine treatments in NYC, this coming August.”
Immediately I’m feeling all sorts of conflicting emotions. Because here it is, no more talking about wanting to do it, or wondering on this or that email list what the effects are and if it really, really does work to interrupt or cure or help people get over a wide variety of addictions. If it is here in my own city and I can get it at much cheaper rates than were I to fly to some foreign country where it’s either legal or simply not regulated at all yet, how in the hell am I, a seasoned, proud proponent of cognitive liberty and the free taking of powerful mind expanding drugs, a veritable Drug Expert, Author and psychonaut, going to live it down if I chicken out and say, “oh, no thank you”?
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL

—-

http://www.drugwar.com/lefthandpath2.shtm

Taking the Left Hand Path.
Again
By
Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com
April 19, 2005
(Remember Waco!)
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”- Richard Davenport-Hines, The Pursuit of Oblivion: A Global History of Narcotics
“Ugh, hey man,” I gasp into the cell phone between the pounding throbbing of my head and the retching of my guts, “you have to come over right now, right away. I am so sick right now, we cannot wait any longer. Come right now.” I hang up the cell phone and lean back over the side of the bed, throwing up yet more dinner from the night before into the small green bucket V has put next to the bed. She’s not doing a good job at even pretending to be very sympathetic either. “I told you you shouldn’t have done that last one,” she points out as I heave miserably into the bucket, my long hair dragging through the sick.
The Reason and Rhyme This Time
The night before was Wednesday, April 13, 2005. V and I had gone out with her mom to eat at Red Bamboo, my favorite restaurant in NYC, a vegan place that makes the best food ever. Afterwards, we’d gone to Madison Square Garden to see Duran Duran play an excellent show, taking all three of us right back to 1982, where I for one hoped to be leaving a lot of very heavy luggage behind.

snip-
Read Article at above URL
—–

Hope these help you understand the underground treatment options at least a little bit.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: stowe01@comcast.net
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where yet. I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day. I have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41 and I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep. So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day. It ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot and also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that hospital for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer was already clotted. $10,000. Insu! rance took care of alot of it but I knew that visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway  I believe the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you can. I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from ibogaine I have to take on the  Worry monster. I hope there is some medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let me paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I dont want to die.  If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment? In much detail as you will?  As a general rule am I over reacting as in alot of cases with m! e? I had a bump come up on my stomach and had these ideas of skin canc er(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was the best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood? I know I am asking alot  it just would make my day to hear it from someone on the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve
————– Original message ————–
Just so were clear, I was just calling it like I see it. Purely my own opinion. As for these deaths you speak of, I know of only one in Mexico and that was a good period of time after admin.
I know of another death come to think of it in safe ol St. Kitts. Thankfully, protocol in Brooklyn is no swimming in the ocean for at least a week!  Doesn’t matter how many doctors you might have around if you let the patient go for a swim after there session your not exactly being the safe and responsible provider you claim to be.
I was quoted $12,000 when I called Mash a year ago and ended up going to Mexico for a hell of a lot cheaper. (Ibo assoc) they worked with me. Also in case there was any misunderstanding the staff and the doctor in Mexico were amazing. That place changed my life in less than a week and although the ibogaine was obviously a huge factor it was an incredibly healing environment.
BUT I don’t think they give enough ibogaine and from what I hear Mash gives even less. 10 or even 15mg/kg isn’t enough to break a full blown habit.
As for the FDA argument, PLEASE! This has been going on now for more than 30 years and no one is stopping to take notice, you really think some researcher, no matter how politically connected she might be in Florida is going to change that with more numbers. I mean shit we know the stuff works. I say direct action! Power to the people and all that. I am not a fan of NA but in this case there is no more fitting a line “one addict helping another is without parallel”.

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions. I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.

For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.

j0n

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 7:20:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 6/3/05 6:51:20 AM, Schmoolyboy@aol.com writes:

that guy who went swimming was my close friend. he snuck off campus after
being told not to go in the water when everyone was asleep.. No on hide
it. The family came down and all the coroners agreed it was an accident and
a foolish
decision for him not to follow instructions. Those patients are watched
carefully for a week. It is not maximum security and swimming is not a
group  function. SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT>

Was an autopsy and a toxicology screen performed including levels of ibogaine
and noribogaine?

Unless this a different fatality I learned of it October of last year at the
American Association for the Treatment of opioid dependence.

INFORMANT:      I hear you lost another patient.
HL:             Not me! Where did it happen?
INFORMANT:  St. Kitts
HL:             How did it happen?
INFORMANT:  Drowning
HL:             Are you sure a shark didn’t attack them
INFORMANT:  Possibly?
HL:             Then I guess you have a shark related ibogaine fatality.
INFORMANT:  Could be.
HL              Thanks.  Keep me up to date.

So, was there an autopsy?  And was there a toxicology screen including plasma
levels for ibogaine and noribogaine?

A copy of the autopsy would allow posting of a number of ibogaine-related
fatality autopsies that may hopefully give some clue as to why patients died.
For all we know it may simply be they fell victim to the higher mortality rate
shown among chemically dependent individuals than among the normal population.
Thus far disclosures of autopsies have shown no definitive cause of death.
Just speculation.

Howard

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $12,500
Date: June 3, 2005 at 6:52:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the cost they told me was 8500 if I didn’t have the full 10,000

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 6:50:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

that guy who went swimming was my close friend. he snuck off campus after being told not to go in the water when everyone was asleep.. No on hide it. The family came down and all the coroners agreed it was an accident and a foolish decision for him not to follow instructions. Those patients are watched carefully for a week. It is not maximum security and swimming is not a group function. SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT>

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 6:43:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

swimming was always banned.Treatment is not jail and clients do not always follow the rules.They go off I campus on their own without permission at every center I know of.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 4:50:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Personally, I think Dr Mash’s work is totally great, and I find it an utter drag that so many people want to run her down. So what if she is business-orientated? So what if it costs money? She provides a first class service, creates a baseline of professional care, and furthers ibogaine’s acceptance by the established medical community.

This whole trip some people have that she “doesn’t care about junkies” or is only doing it for the money, to me it’s just more disempowered junkie whining – how the world SHOULD be, it’s just such a pathetic trip to be on.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: 01 June 2005 20:41
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
> obviously not Tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:26:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes, please explain the why.  I keep hearing don’t do it but what happens?

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com <Schmoolyboy@aol.com> wrote:
again I caution all to be off of Bup products for at least 14 days prior to
Ibo or you can DIE from the combo!!!!!!!

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT- freedom fighter where are you?
Date: June 3, 2005 at 3:16:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

French and Dutch Patriots Rout the New World Order

By Michael James in Frankfurt, Germany – June 1, 2005

On May 29, 2005, under a blazing sun, a raggle-taggle army of French
patriots, nationalists, libertarians, conservatives, socialists and
communists joined together as one in an unprecedented strategic alliance
and mounted a stunning, crippling attack on the New World Order in the
heart of Europe.

Just three days later, fired by the courage of their French cousins to the
south, the Dutch people rallied to the standard and put to flight whatever
remained of the European elites’ parasitic army of self-absorbed,
Lucifer-worshipping propagandists; treading underfoot all 252 pages of
’The Treaty Establishing a Constitution for Europe’, a veritable Devil’s
Charter for the final subjugation and control of an already heavily
regulated people.

Within the space of less than a week, the beast-men who arrogantly run the
Europe Union out of a sense of natural entitlement and intellectual
superiority, licking their chops at the prospect of Europe’s first real
head of state with potent executive powers and a triumphant expansionary
agenda, have fallen from their over-world abode of studied indifference
and invulnerability into a pit of unfathomable despair.

In the thirty-three months it took to write and then rewrite the new
constitution in a frantic bluster of secret negotiations and
self-congratulatory banquets, and at a cost to taxpaying munchkins of
untold millions of euros, nothing could have prepared them for this dark
hour. For these pampered viceroys of a revived Roman empire who take upon
themselves the title of ’Excellency’ work to a timetable set by a higher
master – a master who jealously stalks the corridors of power, from
Whitehall to Washington, Beijing to Moscow, looking to devour those who
serve less than flawlessly and without an eye on the clock. It’s five
minutes to twelve, and the ticking has rudely stopped. The master is
furious.

This wasn’t meant to happen. The propaganda has always worked in the past.
The entire left-right spectrum of the French political and Catholic
establishment, backed by a nimble phalanx of pseudo experts and geriatric
SWAT teams of white-haired university professors with impressive titles,
joined with both ’respectable society’ and the drug-addled icons of
popular Parisian culture to remind all good citizens through the whoring
mainstream media and their legion of multiple-orifice presstitutes that it
was their duty to say “Oui”. But the sons and daughters of French liberty,
seething with an indignant rage shared by millions of Europeans denied the
right to vote, confronted the globalist beast and yelled “Non!”

The political tsunami was felt from the west coast of Ireland to the east
coast of Greece. “Non! The Earthquake,” proclaimed the headline on the
front page of La Tribune, while the globalist newspaper Libération
attacked the rebellious French, describing the result as representing “a
general disaster and an epidemic of populism, which is sweeping everything
in its path”. The May 30 edition of the Europhile British daily, The
Guardian, went further and claimed boldly: “Yesterday was nothing less
than the beginning of the second French revolution.”

The mainstream German press, constrained as it is by a general prohibition
on all talk of alternatives to the European Union, could only speculate on
what might have happened had the German people been allowed to vote. “The
fears that surfaced during the debate in France are not foreign to us,”
said Henrik Uterwedde, Deputy Director of the German-French Institute in
Ludwigsburg. If Germans had been granted a referendum, he continued, “the
discussion would have gone exactly the same way”.

“The French voted for us,” was a common refrain on the streets of
Frankfurt. The German parliament, traditionally fearful of allowing
ordinary citizens to vote in referenda, in much the same way it fears any
objective discussion about the lies contained within the pages of
Germany’s official ’history’ books, treasonously ratified the treaty with
a comfortable majority on Friday, May 27, following a series of quisling
pro-EU speeches reminiscent of East Germany’s subservience to the Soviet
Union.

This audacious betrayal of the German people took place against a backdrop
in which the mainstream media made no mention of the planned NATO and US
neoconservative takeover of the German armed forces, an agenda concealed
in cleverly worded provisions in Articles 1-14 and 1-16 of the treaty.
Indeed, mindful of the wrath of the City of London and its insidious
international banking operations, already responsible for instigating and
financing two world wars to break the spirit of the German people, the
federal media shut down all discussion of the constitution’s implications
for other independent European armies.

As neatly summarised by journalist and peace campaigner Israel Shamir, the
French saved their fellow Europeans from a fate worse than death by
killing a document that would forever bind sovereign national armies to
NATO, placing them under the control of neo-fascist Washington and its
Satanic, Zionist puppet masters in London.

“The proposed constitution was about to subordinate the European Armed
Forces to the NATO, meaning to the US command,” wrote Israel Shamir in the
May 30 edition of TheTruthSeeker.co.uk. “But for [the] wisdom of the
French voters, in the next US invasion, Europeans would be forced to serve
in the invading force, whether it is Iran or Russia that the Neo-cons will
decide to subdue.”

Wrong-footed, winded and fumbling, the flabby, grey-faced politicians and
lawyers are out in force: explaining, soothing, prevaricating. It’s spin
time again. Like a host of Armani-suited Jabba the Hutts, sliming their
way from one government-controlled mainstream media outlet to the next,
Europe’s political degenerates are putting the shine on a humiliating
defeat with words carefully chosen lest they unwittingly acknowledge the
power that ordinary people still possess. Britain’s best-known murderer,
Tony Blair: “Time for reflection”. Germany’s outgoing Chancellor, Gerhard
Schroeder: “Regrettable”. France’s Traitor-in-Chief himself, Jacques
Chirac: “I take note”.

The elites are busy scribbling the notes of which Chirac spoke. Legally,
the treaty requires ratification in all 25 European Union member states,
yet angry Bilderbergers such as Jose Manuel Barroso, the current head of
the European Commission, are already hissing that either dissenting
nations would be ’invited’ to vote again until they get it ’right’, or
that something may miraculously emerge from the small print previously
overlooked, which would allow for a more liberal interpretation of the
rules. “We cannot say that the treaty is dead,” Barroso warned ominously.

But the Dutch disagree. As I write, millions of them are kicking the
corpse of this odious treaty; and should there be yet one twitch remaining
in the body of its articles, the British and the Danes will finish the
job.

For American readers unacquainted with life on the European continent,
understand that this is nothing less than the start of a full-blooded
political insurrection that cuts right across the artificial political
divide. While the wheels have come off the European project, leaving the
vehicle stuck in a constitutional ditch, opponents of the globalist agenda
are now poised for what should be an aggressive and determined attack on
the very engine of expansion and integration.

For both Americans and Europeans, the enemy is the same. It employs
trauma-based economic terrorism under the banner of ’free markets’ to
demolish the nation state and our God-given rights to liberty and
self-determination. It works through price-gouging, tax largesse for
corporations that destroy free-enterprise, the wholesale destruction of
the middle classes by encouraging the export of quality jobs abroad and
the import of cheap labour to displace what few options are left. It is
dedicated to the creation of artificial conflicts and trivial distractions
to keep people divided and drugged, and it maintains the constant drumbeat
of militarism that nuances the dance of death in which the United Nations
and the United States are willing partners who fake being out of step.

The world has long since surrendered its hope that fearless Americans will
rise up by force of arms and reclaim their birthright, retaking their
great country from the freedom and wealth-destroying Zionist cabal in
Washington. While their children die for Israel and oil in a war to
depopulate a broken Arab nation that did them no harm, most Americans are
lost in a bizarre fantasy world of asinine government propaganda, junk
entertainment and effeminate shopping malls.

But though, for now, the issue is a diabolical treaty settled without a
whiff of gun-smoke at the ballot box, the French have raised the standard
of resistance against a wounded but unrepentant New World Order, and the
battle lines are drawn. Europe’s parasitic elites in London, Brussels and
Strasbourg will neither forgive nor forget; and in the months and years to
come, they will not go down without drawing blood. So mark this day and
mark it well, for Europe stands before the fire.

At long last, the fight-back has begun.

——————————————————————————–

Michael James is a British freelance journalist and translator, resident
in Germany for almost 13 years. Permission to republish his work in any
media is freely granted.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 3, 2005 at 2:57:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THANK YOU BISCUIT BOY!! YOU ROCK AS ALWAYS!!
Enough of the bullshit already.  We can all argue about this till
we’re blue in the face, but it won’t solve anything until we all agree
that it needs to be done safely and cheaply and IMMEDIATELY!
It’s an awful thing that people are dying all over the place due to
lack of treatment and accessibilty to said treatments.  It makes me
postal!!  I have the fortunate existance of one who has the support of
my family.  Amongst the people that I know, that’s not usually the
case.   Even wih their support, I have a very hard time wading through
the mine fields of sobriety.  With out them, and without the ibogaine,
I’d be dead.  Not really fucked up.  Dead.  As are the majority of the
people I’ve known through out my life in the proverbial fast lane.
It’s like holding back the cure for AIDS, not having it easily
accessible for those who can’t do that wait thing.
Let’s hope the underground will remain in place and keep saving lives.

love
tink

On 6/2/05, biscuitboy714@aol.com <biscuitboy714@aol.com> wrote:

OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you guy’s are
the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to wait to get
your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to save enough
money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even at NYC
prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that baby that
needs milk and your old lady
needs……………………………… you get my drift
here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances, old needles,
whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar treatment. Here’s
Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a needle
that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it. This all
hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right fucking now
dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough to get
through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need treatment
as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a get a tan at
the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I couldn’t afford
to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind enough to treat
me cheaply  enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another cold turkey
and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because I couldn’t
take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody? How many of
these people die and we never even here about it? While these people wait
for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make it legal,
people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some of them to
go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS it won’t
hurt your stats any huh.            Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment
illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who
where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent
experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone
for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet  know that one dead body equals an
ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will  ever approve this drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway.
But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others
work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting
as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 2:13:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey stowe01
it’s tink.
i tried to write but got permanent delivery failure. I can only tell
you not to expect anything.  What happens, happens, and if you let
yourself go along for the ride, you’ll be a HELL of alot better off.
I had a hard time not fretting before hand, a very hard time, but I
reached a point where I had to let go of all that shit i harbour, and
it went better than I can even begin to tell you.
Just another word of caution, from my own experience. This will work
as well as you allow it to.  It does not “cure” you. You have to do
the work, or you’ll get nowhere.  Make sure you have a support system,
or else it’s that much more difficult.  It’ll give you a big head
start, but YOU have to make it happen, after.
If you’re going to freak out about anything, make sure it’s along the
lines of aftercare and commitment to your own recovery.
It’ll blow your doors off, don’t get me wrong,but you still have to
keep the fight fresh, and, though I hesitate to use “vapid recovery
drivel”, it works if you work it. Let go and let the bwiti.  Yadda x
3.  You get the point…
Each experience is unique yet similar, so there really isn’t a way to
gauge that.  If you see Mash, you’ll end up doing a road test
somewhere in the middle of it(or at least that’s the way it was 6 or
so years ago :]).  Be safe, be clear about your needs and what the
truth is medically, and buckle up.  You’ll be fine, as long as you
allow you to be.
love and serenity being sent your way,
tink
On 6/3/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where yet. I
am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day. I
have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount
will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41 and
I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I
had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more
stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get
to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep.
So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day. It
ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot and
also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that hospital
for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer was
already clotted. $10,000. Insurance took care of alot of it but I knew that
visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway  I believe
the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I
had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self
diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you can.
I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have
general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from
ibogaine I have to take on the  Worry monster. I hope there is some
medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let me
paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am
taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I dont
want to die.  If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment?
In much detail as you will?  As a general rule am I over reacting as in alot
of cases with me? I had a bump come up on my stomach and had these ideas of
skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went
throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in
some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was the
best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood? I
know I am asking alot  it just would make my day to hear it from someone on
the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve
————– Original message ————–

Just so were clear, I was just calling it like I see it. Purely my own
opinion. As for these deaths you speak of, I know of only one in Mexico and
that was a good period of time after admin.
I know of another death come to think of it in safe ol St. Kitts.
Thankfully, protocol in Brooklyn is no swimming in the ocean for at least a
week!  Doesn’t matter how many doctors you might have around if you let the
patient go for a swim after there session your not exactly being the safe
and responsible provider you claim to be.
I was quoted $12,000 when I called Mash a year ago and ended up going to
Mexico for a hell of a lot cheaper. (Ibo assoc) they worked with me. Also in
case there was any misunderstanding the staff and the doctor in Mexico were
amazing. That place changed my life in less than a week and although the
ibogaine was obviously a huge factor it was an incredibly healing
environment.
BUT I don’t think they give enough ibogaine and from what I hear Mash gives
even less. 10 or even 15mg/kg isn’t enough to break a full blown habit.
As for the FDA argument, PLEASE! This has been going on now for more than 30
years and no one is stopping to take notice, you really think some
researcher, no matter how politically connected she might be in Florida is
going to change that with more numbers. I mean shit we know the stuff works.
I say direct action! Power to the people and all that. I am not a fan of NA
but in this case there is no more fitting a line “one addict helping another
is without parallel”.

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions. I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.

For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.

j0n

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: j0n….
Date: June 3, 2005 at 1:56:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi j0n!
I’ve used hydrocodone (um, think it’s same as here in NZ…. DHC?? Dihydrouscodeine? (sp…)) to alleviate withdrawals…. Helped having them freely available between seasons I guess…
Anyway, if Jase from Aussie is listening in, I thought I had saved it, but nope can’t find it, but his Ibo session (plus the way he describes it is excellent n all) is one of my all time favourites to read and I can only hope to have even a slitely similar session in the future, but yeh yeh We’re all Individuals (Just like everybody else…… heh)  and I’m also sure that others who are watching would like to share their sessions too?  I’ve been following Ibogaine since 1998……. Self-dosed non-pure ibogaine in 2000 and was just sick BUT not in the withdrawal sense and tolerance had dropped below half of what I needed.  At that stage (from what I had read… silly me!) I figured the ibogaine was just shite and it hadn’t worked so back into life, work etc.  Looking back now I see that in certain ways it had worked, and it’s shown me the importance of fully understanding and researching something before doing anything!  Don’t cha just love life lessons? Ya know I do!! (mutter grumble gibber gibber grrrr lol)
Anyway, stay tuned, and JASENNNNNNNNNNNN!!  Show us ya session!!  There’s a good bloke! Where have you been?
Luff heaps, and all the best for ya j0n when you embark on your journey (em-BARK haaaa!!, gee, is it meds time already???)
Kirk xxx :oP :o)
From: stowe01@comcast.net [mailto:stowe01@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2005 4:41 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where yet. I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day. I have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41 and I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep. So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day. It ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot and also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that hospital for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer was already clotted. $10,000. Insur ance took care of alot of it but I knew that visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway  I believe the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you can. I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from ibogaine I have to take on the  Worry monster. I hope there is some medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let me paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I dont want to die.  If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment? In much detail as you will?  As a general rule am I over reacting as in alot of cases with me? I had a bump come up on my stomach and had these ideas of skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was the best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood? I know I am asking alot  it just would make my day to hear it from someone on the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve
————– Original message ————–
Just so were clear, I was just calling it like I see it. Purely my own opinion. As for these deaths you speak of, I know of only one in Mexico and that was a good period of time after admin.
I know of another death come to think of it in safe ol St. Kitts. Thankfully, protocol in Brooklyn is no swimming in the ocean for at least a week!  Doesn’t matter how many doctors you might have around if you let the patient go for a swim after there session your not exactly being the safe and responsible provider you claim to be.
I was quoted $12,000 when I called Mash a year ago and ended up going to Mexico for a hell of a lot cheaper. (Ibo assoc) they worked with me. Also in case there was any misunderstanding the staff and the doctor in Mexico were amazing. That place changed my life in less than a week and although the ibogaine was obviously a huge factor it was an incredibly healing environment.
BUT I don’t think they give enough ibogaine and from what I hear Mash gives even less. 10 or even 15mg/kg isn’t enough to break a full blown habit.
As for the FDA argument, PLEASE! This has been going on now for more than 30 years and no one is stopping to take notice, you really think some researcher, no matter how politically connected she might be in Florida is going to change that with more numbers. I mean shit we know the stuff works. I say direct action! Power to the people and all that. I am not a fan of NA but in this case there is no more fitting a line “one addict helping another is without parallel”.
jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions. I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.


For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.



j0n



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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $12,500
Date: June 3, 2005 at 1:56:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

not airfare

On 6/3/05, MrPure@aol.com <MrPure@aol.com> wrote:
is this right people are paying 12,500 dollars a treatment?
what does this include?
hope everyone is well,
James

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From: MrPure@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $12,500
Date: June 3, 2005 at 1:17:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

is this right people are paying 12,500 dollars a treatment?
what does this include?
hope everyone is well,
James

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 1:10:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes, I think so too, it is bad Idea, for most people taking a bath and a
massage is enough
on day 3  day four
I don’t think something bad can happen if you don’t swim far from land,
but as I know, most people are so drained after Ibo that they just would
want to sleep not swim.

Sara

Am I right in assuming now sir that swimming in the ocean is no longer
prohibbited in St Kitts? ;o)
I happen to be a pretty expereinced swimmer but 3 days out swimming in the
ocean would probably have been a bad idea.

Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
swimming 3 days after Ibo is dangerous? I guess so if you don’t know how
to swim.

———————————
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Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:41:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey I am about to do this Ibogaine. (SOMEWHERE) dont know where yet. I am hydrocodone guy. 240 milligrams a day. About 80 mil. 3 mtimes a day. I have talked to many people that say that my drug of choice and the amount will be quite easier than herion, methadone,etc. I sure hope so. I am 41 and I feel like I am healthy the only thing that I have had problems with is I had a bleeding ulcer 8 months ago. It was caused by me being even more stupid than I am already. I was taking my hydro too late and needed to get to sleep so I would pop some Tylenol Pm,s and many of them to go to sleep. So you can just imagine how much Acetophetemine that I was getting a day. It ate through my stomach. It was very small but because Hydro makes me hot and also I am a very,very hyper person they wouldnt let me out of that hospital for three days because my heart brate was to high, even though the ulcer was already clotted. $10,000. Insurance took care of alot of it but I knew that visit was my first of many before I die. If I dont stop. Anyway  I believe the reason that I take Hdro is that at first it was the only thing that I had ever taken that made me not worry I believe(you know I am self diagnosing these days all jokes aside the internet has made it that you can. I have been right the last few times that I had something come up) I have general anxiety. I worry all the time, just about. So when I do detox from ibogaine I have to take on the  Worry monster. I hope there is some medication that helps. Anyway I am rambling let me get to the point. Let me paint you a picture. I have general anxiety to the 100th power and I am taking something(ibogaine) something that you hear has killed people. I dont want to die.  If you dont mind would you kinda of describe your treatment? In much detail as you will?  As a general rule am I over reacting as in alot of cases with me? I had a bump come up on my stomach and had these ideas of skin cancer(it’s gone) So it would help me to hear from someone that went throught it to see if anything happened that alarmed you? was it easy in some ways? Did you get sick? what was the worst part about it? What was the best? How were you cravings for the first week, month? How was your mood? I know I am asking alot  it just would make my day to hear it from someone on the list that sounded normal like you.

Thanks,

Steve
————– Original message ————–
Just so were clear, I was just calling it like I see it. Purely my own opinion. As for these deaths you speak of, I know of only one in Mexico and that was a good period of time after admin.
I know of another death come to think of it in safe ol St. Kitts. Thankfully, protocol in Brooklyn is no swimming in the ocean for at least a week!  Doesn’t matter how many doctors you might have around if you let the patient go for a swim after there session your not exactly being the safe and responsible provider you claim to be.
I was quoted $12,000 when I called Mash a year ago and ended up going to Mexico for a hell of a lot cheaper. (Ibo assoc) they worked with me. Also in case there was any misunderstanding the staff and the doctor in Mexico were amazing. That place changed my life in less than a week and although the ibogaine was obviously a huge factor it was an incredibly healing environment.
BUT I don’t think they give enough ibogaine and from what I hear Mash gives even less. 10 or even 15mg/kg isn’t enough to break a full blown habit.
As for the FDA argument, PLEASE! This has been going on now for more than 30 years and no one is stopping to take notice, you really think some researcher, no matter how politically connected she might be in Florida is going to change that with more numbers. I mean shit we know the stuff works. I say direct action! Power to the people and all that. I am not a fan of NA but in this case there is no more fitting a line “one addict helping another is without parallel”.

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions. I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.

For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.

j0n

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:35:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think they tried that, there are more ibogaine lists here there is
the sacrament list which was started for spiritual and informative
reasons I think and they offered to make whatever lists anyone wants
but it didn’t work because they die out after a few messages and
everyone comes back to this one big list.

It seems to be what people want, the mixture of everything. There are
a lot of very kind and informative people here and at times being part
of this place gets me through a rough day and makes me feel good. This
is one of those times where everyone needs to air their dirty laundry
or get angry and that probably serves a purpose too.

This is one of the kinder drug lists I’ve been on, because some very
beautiful people post here and run all of Mindvox, including most of
those in the ibogaine film, but none of them have decided to take part
in what’s happening here right now.

Mr. Kroupa, not to add even more to all the things you should be
doing, but Patrick could you start the Lets argue because we’re idiots
list? 🙂

You came in at a strange time, one of the ugliest since I’ve been on
this list when one by one everyone who is usually nice decided to act
up and those who aren’t nice or informative hit new lows 🙂

Ben posted his web site, it is at

http://www.ibogainefilm.com

It’s nice to meet you Steve, stick around for a while and then make
informed choices for yourself like Darkmatters said.

KV

On 6/3/05, stowe01@comcast.net <stowe01@comcast.net> wrote:

Krista,

I will only reply to either a positive post or useful info post.
I am a very nice, ethical and good hearted person and sometimes I feel lke
that this addiction was by accident and wanted on this list to relate and
see what other people have done about there proble. I am mnot an Intelect
but there are many people that know me that one of the main ways of
describing me is smart. But I am smart emough to know when I feel out of
place. I feel like that there are so many people on this list that are
negative and closed minded. I almost wished that they could divide this list
into four divisions. remember if we are addicted to drugs were are not
considerd normal but just for this list sake you maybe.The four divisions
would be( Physco)=drugs have made them almost not fit to live (Mean)=there
mad at evrybody including themselves (Nice) A good person that looked up one
day and in love with a drug and reallyu wants to change (Informative) The
people that know enough through study and experience that they can teach us
something. If we had that I would sign up for the Nice and the Informative
only. If I had to choose only one it would be informative. Anyway you hit
both of these and I thank you for a nice read. There are some good people
here also Sarah, Boris, Howard,etc just to name a few but this argument
stuff just clutters this stuff up. They should just start another chat room.
Call it (Lets argue because we are Idiots)

Steve

————– Original message ————–

It’s a beautiful film, Ben Deloenen is a very talented young man,
thank you Ben, the conference in NY was great and your movie was the
very high point for me which says a lot inside Alex Grey’s chapel!

I do the same thing when I am down sometimes, I watch the film and
look through some of the beautiful books from the chapel. It puts
everything into perspective when I get tired of some of the pettiness
and bickering that goes through this list.

A chapel full of different people all getting along and Lotsoff,
Kroupa, Kamlet and the underground treatment providers all sitting at
the same table making jokes, getting along and sharing.

You did a remarkable job of telling the story of ibogaine Ben, your
movie should be required viewing for anyone interesting in taking it
or knowing what it does.

Rocky Carvelli, your name is listed in the credits, are you in the the
film? Which one are you please? If you’re not the same person, I liked
your thoughts from yesterday.

KV

On 6/2/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
I just received my copy of the DVD Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched
it
within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.

There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the
intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff,
Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used
Ibogaine successfully.

Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has
been
going on in this list for the past few days.

To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is
misplaced.
To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t
know what to say.
To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its
risky
business. Make an informed decision.
To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no
easy
way.

Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in
mind
that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own
decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: hey rocky…
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:14:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lost your number a few weeks back. call me if you get a chance. good to see you posting. -m.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am I right in assuming now sir that swimming in the ocean is no longer prohibbited in St Kitts? ;o)
I happen to be a pretty expereinced swimmer but 3 days out swimming in the ocean would probably have been a bad idea.

Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
swimming 3 days after Ibo is dangerous? I guess so if you don’t know how to swim.

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:11:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am I right in assuming now sir that swimming in the ocean is no longer prohibbited in St Kitts? ;o)
I happen to be a pretty expereinced swimmer but 3 days out swimming in the ocean would probably have been a bad idea.

Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
swimming 3 days after Ibo is dangerous? I guess so if you don’t know how to swim.

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:04:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Where can I get the Dvd?

————– Original message ————–

> It’s a beautiful film, Ben Deloenen is a very talented young man,
> thank you Ben, the conference in NY was great and your movie was the
> very high point for me which says a lot inside Alex Grey’s chapel!
>
> I do the same thing when I am down sometimes, I watch the film and
> look through some of the beautiful books from the chapel. It puts
> everything into perspective when I get tired of some of the pettiness
> and bickering that goes through this list.
>
> A chapel full of different people all getting along and Lotsoff,
> Kroupa, Kamlet and the underground treatment providers all sitting at
> the same table making jokes, getting along and sharing.
>
> You did a remarkable job of telling the story of ibogaine Ben, your
> movie should be required viewing for anyone interesting in taking it
> or knowing what it does.
>
> Rocky Carvelli, your name is listed in the credits, are you in the the
> film? Which one are you please? If you’re not the same person, I liked
> your thoughts from yesterday.
>
> KV
>
> On 6/2/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
> > I just received my copy of the DVD Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched it
> > within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.
> >
> > There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the
> > intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff,
> > Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used
> > Ibogaine successfully.
> >
> > Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has been
> > going on in this list for the past few days.
> >
> > To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is misplaced.
> > To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t
> > know what to say.
> > To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its risky
> > business. Make an informed decision.
> > To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no easy
> > way.
> >
> > Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in mind
> > that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own
> > decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.
> >
> >
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 3, 2005 at 12:03:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Krista,

I will only reply to either a positive post or useful info post. I am a very nice, ethical and good hearted person and sometimes I feel lke that this addiction was by accident and wanted on this list to relate and see what other people have done about there proble. I am mnot an Intelect but there are many people that know me that one of the main ways of describing me is smart. But I am smart emough to know when I feel out of place. I feel like that there are so many people on this list that are negative and closed minded. I almost wished that they could divide this list into four divisions. remember if we are addicted to drugs were are not considerd normal but just for this list sake you maybe.The four divisions would be( Physco)=drugs have made them almost not fit to live (Mean)=there mad at evrybody including themselves (Nice) A good person that looked up one day and in love with a drug and reallyu wants to change (Informative) The people that know enough through study and experience that they can teach us something. If we had that I would sign up for the Nice and the Informative only. If I had to choose only one it would be informative. Anyway you hit both of these and I thank you for a nice read. There are some good people here also Sarah, Boris, Howard,etc just to name a few but this argument stuff just clutters this stuff up. They should just start another chat room. Call it (Lets argue because we are Idiots)

Steve

————– Original message ————–

> It’s a beautiful film, Ben Deloenen is a very talented young man,
> thank you Ben, the conference in NY was great and your movie was the
> very high point for me which says a lot inside Alex Grey’s chapel!
>
> I do the same thing when I am down sometimes, I watch the film and
> look through some of the beautiful books from the chapel. It puts
> everything into perspective when I get tired of some of the pettiness
> and bickering that goes through this list.
>
> A chapel full of different people all getting along and Lotsoff,
> Kroupa, Kamlet and the underground treatment providers all sitting at
> the same table making jokes, getting along and sharing.
>
> You did a remarkable job of telling the story of ibogaine Ben, your
> movie should be required viewing for anyone interesting in taking it
> or knowing what it does.
>
> Rocky Carvelli, your name is listed in the credits, are you in the the
> film? Which one are you please? If you’re not the same person, I liked
> your thoughts from yesterday.
>
> KV
>
> On 6/2/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
> > I just received my copy of the DVD Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched it
> > within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.
> >
> > There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the
> > intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff,
> > Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used
> > Ibogaine successfully.
> >
> > Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has been
> > going on in this list for the past few days.
> >
> > To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is misplaced.
> > To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t
> > know what to say.
> > To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its risky
> > business. Make an informed decision.
> > To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no easy
> > way.
> >
> > Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in mind
> > that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own
> > decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.
> >
> >
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 2, 2005 at 10:40:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s a beautiful film, Ben Deloenen is a very talented young man,
thank you Ben, the conference in NY was great and your movie was the
very high point for me which says a lot inside Alex Grey’s chapel!

I do the same thing when I am down sometimes, I watch the film and
look through some of the beautiful books from the chapel. It puts
everything into perspective when I get tired of some of the pettiness
and bickering that goes through this list.

A chapel full of different people all getting along and Lotsoff,
Kroupa, Kamlet and the underground treatment providers all sitting at
the same table making jokes, getting along and sharing.

You did a remarkable job of telling the story of ibogaine Ben, your
movie should be required viewing for anyone interesting in taking it
or knowing what it does.

Rocky Carvelli, your name is listed in the credits, are you in the the
film? Which one are you please? If you’re not the same person, I liked
your thoughts from yesterday.

KV

On 6/2/05, darkmattersfo@comcast.net <darkmattersfo@comcast.net> wrote:
I just received my copy of the DVD  Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched it
within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.

There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the
intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff,
Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used
Ibogaine successfully.

Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has been
going on in this list for the past few days.

To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is misplaced.
To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t
know what to say.
To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its risky
business. Make an informed decision.
To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no easy
way.

Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in mind
that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own
decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 9:55:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

swimming 3 days after Ibo is dangerous? I guess so if you don’t know how to swim.

From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rite of Passage
Date: June 2, 2005 at 9:52:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just received my copy of the DVD  Ibogaine:Rite of passage. I watched it within 10 minutes of getting home. I am glad I did.

There was so much I could identify with. Of particular note was the intermixing of Bwiti images/ritual and the western proponents (Lotsoff, Kroupa, Glick – sorry if i left anyone out) and American’s who have used Ibogaine successfully.

Seeing the video helped ground myself after all the bickering that has been going on in this list for the past few days.

To the person who was so bitter toward addicts – your anger is misplaced.
To the people who debate back and forth about profiterring, etc, I don’t know what to say.
To the people with health concerns (ie: will ibogaine kill you?) – its risky business. Make an informed decision.
To those who are lurking and angry at all this discourse – there is no easy way.

Is this all snake oil medicine? I don’t think so. But please keep in mind that all this is outside the mainstream and you have to make your own decisions. Don’t rely on the hyperbole of proponents and distractors.

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 8:47:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,

I am sorry sometimes I am not good at writing what I mean. I didnt mean I would sue anyone. I meant I would want someone in the legal field to know where I am going and what I am doing and If I dont call on a certain date than they know to be looking for me. Thats what I meant about that. Some people on here have made me think that people end up dead and never found or dumped somewhere. That is all I meant. But thanks so much. You are right about the arguing. I am a easy going laid back person and I cant read the post, there to aggresive. But on the other hand people should not get on here and insult people that are addidcted to drugs. Matter of fact I may be the perfect model for that. I am a successful businessman and  respected with a very dark secret, very few know. I never touched a drug until I was 38 not even pot. I drank alcohol. I was completely against drugs. I had a surgery and fell in love with hydrocodone.I had one of my best friends committ sucicide over crack 4 years ago and I used to tell him “just dont think about it, just quit it is simple just dont do it anymore” I look back now and I am addicted to something and realize how stupid I was. I may helped him commit suicide by making him think that it was a problem with him and due to that he felt his best friend looked at him as a failure and could have sparked it. I wished that I would have been more internet savvy  and knew about ibogaine and could have tried ibogaine on him. So those people that get on here and say that people that get on drugs are the scum because they steal, etc. Guess what I am a fuctioning addict I have already thouhght out the scenario and I know that I would steal from my family that is how bad I need the stuff. So in short there needs to be more education. I have started noticing that about 80% of people that I am asking love hydrocodone. I think that It is an epidemic and it is getting swept under the rug!!!
Steve
————– Original message ————–

> I’m not one of the most knowledgeable people here by far. I’m just one
> of the only ones who has responded to anything you’re asking. Everyone
> else is busy arguing.
>
> The lawsuit wars were over patents and who owns ibogaine. There were
> dead bodies too, there always seem to be with ibogaine 😉 You sound
> like you’re looking for assurances and high profiles, nobody is going
> to beat Mash on that. What the best treatment for you is I couldn’t
> even guess, it might be Sara 🙂 With your attitude, Mash is probably
> the perfect fit, your lawyers can talk to her lawyers, except they’ll
> never win if you decide to sue her because you can’t even afford St.
> Kitts so you don’t have nearly enough money to sue Mash and win 😉
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Vector,
> >
> > Thank you so much you seem to be the most knowledgeable
> > here. I like waht you said about the media. I dont want to deal with
> > someone that flies under the radar. I want to deal with someone that
> > has alot to lose and well known enough that the media has an interest
> > in you. It makes for a very responsible company. Hey I dont want to
> > die!! I dont knoiw enough about this stuff to feel comfortable with
> > another exjunkie in a hotel room. So in short you answered alot of my
> > questions.But I do have one. You said that university of Miami does
> > not want to be sued again. What was it sued for before. I would like
> > to know that.. I have been on the phone today with the guy that is a
> > representative of the new mash clinic in Mexico. He made me feel real
> > comfortable. Hde was a ex jnunkie on Crack and she healed him and he
> > praises her.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower
> > priced
> > > clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash
> > doesn’t
> > > have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it
> >
> > > because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
> > > university of miami again.
> > >
> > > I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association
> > it’s
> > > all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them
> > and
> > > that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a
> > person
> > > but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look
> > that
> > > up on the internet too.
> > >
> > > ‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new
> > clinic is
> > > advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on
> > either
> > > one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication
> > advertises
> > > on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.
> > >
> > > .:vector:.
> > >
> > >
> > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Vector,
> > > > I have not been watching close to the post and your message was
> > not
> > > > clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not.
> > I
> > > > dont know when it happened. please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > >
> > > > > The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s
> > lower
> > > > > priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > >
> > > > > .:vector:.
> > > > >
> > > > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> > > > > > or another Mexico facility.
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,
> >
> > > > THEY
> > > > > > KNOW ALOT MORE
> > > > > > > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT
> > HOW
> > > > THESE
> > > > > > CHEMICALS
> > > > > > > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU
> > WITH
> > > > HER
> > > > > > CREDENTIALS
> > > > > > > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU
> > TRY
> > > > IT.
> > > > > > PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > > > > > > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND
> >
> > > > SPEAK
> > > > > > TO HER BEFOR
> > > > > > > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > > > > > > —–Original message—–
> > > > > > > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
> > > > unless
> > > > > > she can make
> > > > > > > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who
> > is
> > > > > > killing people
> > > > > > > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead
> > bodies,
> > > > not
> > > > > > one the last
> > > > > > > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine
> > or
> > > > are
> > > > > > afraid of not
> > > > > > > making more money. You would think after one dead body
> > they’d
> > > > at
> > > > > > least make
> > > > > > > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead
> > bodies
> > > > and
> > > > > > hiding it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash
> > is
> > > > > > expanding, St.
> > > > > > > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > > > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained
> > by
> > > > her
> > > > > > personally
> > > > > > > and it costs $4,000.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Less then Mexico.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know
> > she’s
> > > >
> > > > > > making money.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s
> > opening a
> > > >
> > > > > > chain of
> > > > > > > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and
> >
> > > > person
> > > > > > running all
> > > > > > > the sites. What are they??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > > > > > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
> > > > really
> > > > > > all that
> > > > > > > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
> > > > medication
> > > > > > than helping
> > > > > > > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really
> > technically
> > > > a
> > > > > > doctor either
> > > > > > > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
> > > > Brooklyn
> > > > > > and you go
> > > > > > > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open
> > no
> > > > > > matter where you
> > > > > > > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better
> > treatment
> > > > and
> > > > > > went
> > > > > > > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > > the same thing
> > > > > > > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not
> > to
> > > > > > mention doesn’t
> > > > > > > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to
> > break
> > > > a
> > > > > > dope habit.
> > > > > > > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
> > > > great
> > > > > > doctor mash so
> > > > > > > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this
> >
> > > > list
> > > > > > has many
> > > > > > > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can
> > rant,
> > > >
> > > > > > then what is the
> > > > > > > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > > > > > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the
> > risks
> > > > > > remain
> > > > > > > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
> > > > everyone
> > > > > > can cough up
> > > > > > > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s
> > hard
> > > > > > enought to comeup
> > > > > > > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it
> > works,
> > > > and
> > > > > > it needs
> > > > > > > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who
> > are
> > > > > > fortunateto have
> > > > > > > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
> > > > obviously
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> >
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> > > > > > > > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > Discover Yahoo!
> > > > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
> > > > Check it out!
> > > > > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
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> > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it
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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 8:47:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,

I am sorry sometimes I am not good at writing what I mean. I didnt mean I would sue anyone. I meant I would want someone in the legal field to know where I am going and what I am doing and If I dont call on a certain date than they know to be looking for me. Thats what I meant about that. Some people on here have made me think that people end up dead and never found or dumped somewhere. That is all I meant. But thanks so much. You are right about the arguing. I am a easy going laid back person and I cant read the post, there to aggresive. But on the other hand people should not get on here and insult people that are addidcted to drugs. Matter of fact I may be the perfect model for that. I am a successful businessman and  respected with a very dark secret, very few know. I never touched a drug until I was 38 not even pot. I drank alcohol. I was completely against drugs. I had a surgery and fell in love with hydrocodone.I had one of my best friends committ sucicide over crack 4 years ago and I used to tell him “just dont think about it, just quit it is simple just dont do it anymore” I look back now and I am addicted to something and realize how stupid I was. I may helped him commit suicide by making him think that it was a problem with him and due to that he felt his best friend looked at him as a failure and could have sparked it. I wished that I would have been more internet savvy  and knew about ibogaine and could have tried ibogaine on him. So those people that get on here and say that people that get on drugs are the scum because they steal, etc. Guess what I am a fuctioning addict I have already thouhght out the scenario and I know that I would steal from my family that is how bad I need the stuff. So in short there needs to be more education. I have started noticing that about 80% of people that I am asking love hydrocodone. I think that It is an epidemic and it is getting swept under the rug!!!
Steve
————– Original message ————–

> I’m not one of the most knowledgeable people here by far. I’m just one
> of the only ones who has responded to anything you’re asking. Everyone
> else is busy arguing.
>
> The lawsuit wars were over patents and who owns ibogaine. There were
> dead bodies too, there always seem to be with ibogaine 😉 You sound
> like you’re looking for assurances and high profiles, nobody is going
> to beat Mash on that. What the best treatment for you is I couldn’t
> even guess, it might be Sara 🙂 With your attitude, Mash is probably
> the perfect fit, your lawyers can talk to her lawyers, except they’ll
> never win if you decide to sue her because you can’t even afford St.
> Kitts so you don’t have nearly enough money to sue Mash and win 😉
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Vector,
> >
> > Thank you so much you seem to be the most knowledgeable
> > here. I like waht you said about the media. I dont want to deal with
> > someone that flies under the radar. I want to deal with someone that
> > has alot to lose and well known enough that the media has an interest
> > in you. It makes for a very responsible company. Hey I dont want to
> > die!! I dont knoiw enough about this stuff to feel comfortable with
> > another exjunkie in a hotel room. So in short you answered alot of my
> > questions.But I do have one. You said that university of Miami does
> > not want to be sued again. What was it sued for before. I would like
> > to know that.. I have been on the phone today with the guy that is a
> > representative of the new mash clinic in Mexico. He made me feel real
> > comfortable. Hde was a ex jnunkie on Crack and she healed him and he
> > praises her.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower
> > priced
> > > clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash
> > doesn’t
> > > have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it
> >
> > > because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
> > > university of miami again.
> > >
> > > I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association
> > it’s
> > > all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them
> > and
> > > that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a
> > person
> > > but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look
> > that
> > > up on the internet too.
> > >
> > > ‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new
> > clinic is
> > > advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on
> > either
> > > one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication
> > advertises
> > > on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.
> > >
> > > .:vector:.
> > >
> > >
> > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Vector,
> > > > I have not been watching close to the post and your message was
> > not
> > > > clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not.
> > I
> > > > dont know when it happened. please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > >
> > > > > The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s
> > lower
> > > > > priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > >
> > > > > .:vector:.
> > > > >
> > > > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> > > > > > or another Mexico facility.
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,
> >
> > > > THEY
> > > > > > KNOW ALOT MORE
> > > > > > > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT
> > HOW
> > > > THESE
> > > > > > CHEMICALS
> > > > > > > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU
> > WITH
> > > > HER
> > > > > > CREDENTIALS
> > > > > > > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU
> > TRY
> > > > IT.
> > > > > > PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > > > > > > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND
> >
> > > > SPEAK
> > > > > > TO HER BEFOR
> > > > > > > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > > > > > > —–Original message—–
> > > > > > > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
> > > > unless
> > > > > > she can make
> > > > > > > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who
> > is
> > > > > > killing people
> > > > > > > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead
> > bodies,
> > > > not
> > > > > > one the last
> > > > > > > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine
> > or
> > > > are
> > > > > > afraid of not
> > > > > > > making more money. You would think after one dead body
> > they’d
> > > > at
> > > > > > least make
> > > > > > > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead
> > bodies
> > > > and
> > > > > > hiding it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash
> > is
> > > > > > expanding, St.
> > > > > > > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > > > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained
> > by
> > > > her
> > > > > > personally
> > > > > > > and it costs $4,000.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Less then Mexico.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know
> > she’s
> > > >
> > > > > > making money.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s
> > opening a
> > > >
> > > > > > chain of
> > > > > > > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and
> >
> > > > person
> > > > > > running all
> > > > > > > the sites. What are they??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > > > > > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
> > > > really
> > > > > > all that
> > > > > > > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
> > > > medication
> > > > > > than helping
> > > > > > > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really
> > technically
> > > > a
> > > > > > doctor either
> > > > > > > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
> > > > Brooklyn
> > > > > > and you go
> > > > > > > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open
> > no
> > > > > > matter where you
> > > > > > > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better
> > treatment
> > > > and
> > > > > > went
> > > > > > > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > > the same thing
> > > > > > > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not
> > to
> > > > > > mention doesn’t
> > > > > > > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to
> > break
> > > > a
> > > > > > dope habit.
> > > > > > > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
> > > > great
> > > > > > doctor mash so
> > > > > > > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this
> >
> > > > list
> > > > > > has many
> > > > > > > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can
> > rant,
> > > >
> > > > > > then what is the
> > > > > > > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > > > > > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the
> > risks
> > > > > > remain
> > > > > > > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
> > > > everyone
> > > > > > can cough up
> > > > > > > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s
> > hard
> > > > > > enought to comeup
> > > > > > > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it
> > works,
> > > > and
> > > > > > it needs
> > > > > > > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who
> > are
> > > > > > fortunateto have
> > > > > > > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
> > > > obviously
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > %] Ibogaine List Commands:
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> > > > > > >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > Discover Yahoo!
> > > > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
> > > > Check it out!
> > > > > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
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> > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it
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>

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 8:07:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not one of the most knowledgeable people here by far. I’m just one
of the only ones who has responded to anything you’re asking. Everyone
else is busy arguing.

The lawsuit wars were over patents and who owns ibogaine. There were
dead bodies too, there always seem to be with ibogaine 😉 You sound
like you’re looking for assurances and high profiles, nobody is going
to beat Mash on that. What the best treatment for you is I couldn’t
even guess, it might be Sara 🙂 With your attitude, Mash is probably
the perfect fit, your lawyers can talk to her lawyers, except they’ll
never win if you decide to sue her because you can’t even afford St.
Kitts so you don’t have nearly enough money to sue Mash and win 😉

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Vector,

Thank you so much you seem to be the most knowledgeable
here. I like waht you said about the media. I dont want to deal with
someone that flies under the radar. I want to deal with someone that
has alot to lose and well known enough that the media has an interest
in you. It makes for a very responsible company. Hey I dont want to
die!! I dont knoiw enough about this stuff to feel comfortable with
another exjunkie in a hotel room. So in short you answered alot of my
questions.But I do have one. You said that university of Miami does
not want to be sued again. What was it sued for before. I would like
to know that.. I have been on the phone today with the guy that  is a
representative of the new mash clinic in Mexico. He made me feel real
comfortable. Hde was a ex jnunkie on Crack and she healed him and he
praises her.

Steve

————– Original message ————–

No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower
priced
clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash
doesn’t
have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it

because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
university of miami again.

I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association
it’s
all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them
and
that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a
person
but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look
that
up on the internet too.

‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new
clinic is
advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on
either
one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication
advertises
on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Vector,
I have not been watching close to the post and your message was
not
clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not.
I
dont know when it happened. please let me know.

————– Original message ————–

The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s
lower
priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.

http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Gary,

Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
or another Mexico facility.
Steve

————– Original message ————–

KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,

THEY
KNOW ALOT MORE
THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT
HOW
THESE
CHEMICALS
WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU
WITH
HER
CREDENTIALS
HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU
TRY
IT.
PRUDE’S SPENDS
MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND

SPEAK
TO HER BEFOR
YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
—–Original message—–
From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
unless
she can make
money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who
is
killing people
and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead
bodies,
not
one the last
one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.

Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine
or
are
afraid of not
making more money. You would think after one dead body
they’d
at
least make
changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead
bodies
and
hiding it.

I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash
is
expanding, St.
Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained
by
her
personally
and it costs $4,000.

Less then Mexico.

If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know
she’s

making money.

Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s
opening a

chain of
ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and

person
running all
the sites. What are they??

— On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
really
all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
medication
than helping
the common addict who suffers. And shes not really
technically
a
doctor either
or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
Brooklyn
and you go
to the same place and get what you need to get if your open
no
matter where you
do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better
treatment
and
went
way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500
to
get
the same thing
and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not
to
mention doesn’t
she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to
break
a
dope habit.
tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
great
doctor mash so
you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this

list
has many
functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can
rant,

then what is the
bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the
risks
remain
regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
everyone
can cough up
the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s
hard
enought to comeup
with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it
works,
and
it needs
toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who
are
fortunateto have
the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
obviously
not

Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[

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__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

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__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it
out!
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 2, 2005 at 8:04:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, how bout something hypothetical here. Let’s just say that you guy’s are the only one’s with the Ibogaine. Just how long is an addict to wait to get your service. Just how in the hell is this addict supposed to save enough money to get treated and keep from going through withdrawal? Even at NYC prices it aint cheap to keep yourself well, not to mention that baby that needs milk and your old lady needs……………………………… you get my drift here? OK, this addict is trying save money so he takes chances, old needles, whatever, to save enough money to get this 12,000 dollar treatment. Here’s Hep C for ya, and pray to God you don’t get AIDS cause you used a needle that didn’t cost you anything and was there when you needed it. This all hypothetical and sounds absurd but that shit is going on right fucking now dude. People are killing themselves to try and stay well enough to get through the day. How can you ignore that fact? These people need treatment as bad or worse than the addicts that can get treated and get a get a tan at the same time. I was lucky, I had my family behind me but I couldn’t afford to get treated oversea’s. Thank God the underground was kind enough to treat me cheaply  enough that I didn’t have to suffer through another cold turkey and then go out and cop as soon as I could get out of bed because I couldn’t take it anymore. What about these guy’s who don’t have anybody? How many of these people die and we never even here about it? While these people wait for the well intentioned professionals to sort the data, and make it legal, people die. Every day. You tell them to wait, your telling some of them to go ahead and die. I guess as long as it’s an OD or Hep C or AIDS it won’t hurt your stats any huh.            Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet  know that one dead body equals an ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will  ever approve this drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway. But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 7:37:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and yeah ur right dead is dead and your just as dead in the ocean in St. Kitts as you would be in Brooklyn… the water might just be a little bluer.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just so were clear, I was just calling it like I see it. Purely my own opinion. As for these deaths you speak of, I know of only one in Mexico and that was a good period of time after admin.
I know of another death come to think of it in safe ol St. Kitts. Thankfully, protocol in Brooklyn is no swimming in the ocean for at least a week!  Doesn’t matter how many doctors you might have around if you let the patient go for a swim after there session your not exactly being the safe and responsible provider you claim to be.
I was quoted $12,000 when I called Mash a year ago and ended up going to Mexico for a hell of a lot cheaper. (Ibo assoc) they worked with me. Also in case there was any misunderstanding the staff and the doctor in Mexico were amazing. That place changed my life in less than a week and although the ibogaine was obviously a huge factor it was an incredibly healing environment.
BUT I don’t think they give enough ibogaine and from what I hear Mash gives even less. 10 or even 15mg/kg isn’t enough to break a full blown habit.
As for the FDA argument, PLEASE! This has been going on now for more than 30 years and no one is stopping to take notice, you really think some researcher, no matter how politically connected she might be in Florida is going to change that with more numbers. I mean shit we know the stuff works. I say direct action! Power to the people and all that. I am not a fan of NA but in this case there is no more fitting a line “one addict helping another is without parallel”.

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions. I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.

For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.

j0n

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Mash- jeeze what a shit storm I seemed to have started.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 7:33:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just so were clear, I was just calling it like I see it. Purely my own opinion. As for these deaths you speak of, I know of only one in Mexico and that was a good period of time after admin.
I know of another death come to think of it in safe ol St. Kitts. Thankfully, protocol in Brooklyn is no swimming in the ocean for at least a week!  Doesn’t matter how many doctors you might have around if you let the patient go for a swim after there session your not exactly being the safe and responsible provider you claim to be.
I was quoted $12,000 when I called Mash a year ago and ended up going to Mexico for a hell of a lot cheaper. (Ibo assoc) they worked with me. Also in case there was any misunderstanding the staff and the doctor in Mexico were amazing. That place changed my life in less than a week and although the ibogaine was obviously a huge factor it was an incredibly healing environment.
BUT I don’t think they give enough ibogaine and from what I hear Mash gives even less. 10 or even 15mg/kg isn’t enough to break a full blown habit.
As for the FDA argument, PLEASE! This has been going on now for more than 30 years and no one is stopping to take notice, you really think some researcher, no matter how politically connected she might be in Florida is going to change that with more numbers. I mean shit we know the stuff works. I say direct action! Power to the people and all that. I am not a fan of NA but in this case there is no more fitting a line “one addict helping another is without parallel”.

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions. I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.

For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.

j0n

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 7:19:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am thinking about going to the new Mash clinic in Mexico.I have one concern. “The doctors”. They say they are trained by her. Does anybody know a website that I can view doctors certifications for doctors in Mexico. Thanks so much if anyone can help me. When doing anything medical I want to be in the great  USA. But I may have no choice this time in this matter.

Steve
.
————– Original message ————–

> No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower priced
> clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash doesn’t
> have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it
> because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
> university of miami again.
>
> I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association it’s
> all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them and
> that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a person
> but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look that
> up on the internet too.
>
> ‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new clinic is
> advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on either
> one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication advertises
> on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Vector,
> > I have not been watching close to the post and your message was not
> > clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not. I
> > dont know when it happened. please let me know.
> >
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
> > > priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.
> > >
> > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > >
> > > .:vector:.
> > >
> > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gary,
> > > >
> > > > Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> > > > or another Mexico facility.
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > >
> > > > > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,
> > THEY
> > > > KNOW ALOT MORE
> > > > > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW
> > THESE
> > > > CHEMICALS
> > > > > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH
> > HER
> > > > CREDENTIALS
> > > > > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY
> > IT.
> > > > PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > > > > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND
> > SPEAK
> > > > TO HER BEFOR
> > > > > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > > > > —–Original message—–
> > > > > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
> > unless
> > > > she can make
> > > > > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
> > > > killing people
> > > > > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies,
> > not
> > > > one the last
> > > > > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or
> > are
> > > > afraid of not
> > > > > making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d
> > at
> > > > least make
> > > > > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies
> > and
> > > > hiding it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
> > > > expanding, St.
> > > > > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by
> > her
> > > > personally
> > > > > and it costs $4,000.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Less then Mexico.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s
> >
> > > > making money.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a
> >
> > > > chain of
> > > > > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and
> > person
> > > > running all
> > > > > the sites. What are they??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > > > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
> > really
> > > > all that
> > > > > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
> > medication
> > > > than helping
> > > > > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically
> > a
> > > > doctor either
> > > > > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
> > Brooklyn
> > > > and you go
> > > > > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
> > > > matter where you
> > > > > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment
> > and
> > > > went
> > > > > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to
> > get
> > > > the same thing
> > > > > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
> > > > mention doesn’t
> > > > > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break
> > a
> > > > dope habit.
> > > > > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
> > great
> > > > doctor mash so
> > > > > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this
> > list
> > > > has many
> > > > > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,
> >
> > > > then what is the
> > > > > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > > > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
> > > > remain
> > > > > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
> > everyone
> > > > can cough up
> > > > > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
> > > > enought to comeup
> > > > > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works,
> > and
> > > > it needs
> > > > > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
> > > > fortunateto have
> > > > > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
> > obviously
> > > > not
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> >
> > > >
> > > > > %] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on
> > your
> > > > mobile phone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > > > > > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > >
> > > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Discover Yahoo!
> > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
> > Check it out!
> > > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Discover Yahoo!
> Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
>
>
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>

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 7:11:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,

Thank you so much you seem to be the most knowledgeable here. I like waht you said about the media. I dont want to deal with someone that flies under the radar. I want to deal with someone that has alot to lose and well known enough that the media has an interest in you. It makes for a very responsible company. Hey I dont want to die!! I dont knoiw enough about this stuff to feel comfortable with another exjunkie in a hotel room. So in short you answered alot of my questions.But I do have one. You said that university of Miami does not want to be sued again. What was it sued for before. I would like to know that.. I have been on the phone today with the guy that  is a representative of the new mash clinic in Mexico. He made me feel real comfortable. Hde was a ex jnunkie on Crack and she healed him and he praises her.

Steve

————– Original message ————–

> No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower priced
> clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash doesn’t
> have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it
> because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
> university of miami again.
>
> I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association it’s
> all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them and
> that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a person
> but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look that
> up on the internet too.
>
> ‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new clinic is
> advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on either
> one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication advertises
> on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.
>
> .:vector:.
>
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Vector,
> > I have not been watching close to the post and your message was not
> > clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not. I
> > dont know when it happened. please let me know.
> >
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
> > > priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.
> > >
> > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > >
> > > .:vector:.
> > >
> > > — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gary,
> > > >
> > > > Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> > > > or another Mexico facility.
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > ————– Original message ————–
> > > >
> > > > > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,
> > THEY
> > > > KNOW ALOT MORE
> > > > > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW
> > THESE
> > > > CHEMICALS
> > > > > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH
> > HER
> > > > CREDENTIALS
> > > > > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY
> > IT.
> > > > PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > > > > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND
> > SPEAK
> > > > TO HER BEFOR
> > > > > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > > > > —–Original message—–
> > > > > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
> > unless
> > > > she can make
> > > > > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
> > > > killing people
> > > > > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies,
> > not
> > > > one the last
> > > > > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or
> > are
> > > > afraid of not
> > > > > making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d
> > at
> > > > least make
> > > > > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies
> > and
> > > > hiding it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
> > > > expanding, St.
> > > > > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by
> > her
> > > > personally
> > > > > and it costs $4,000.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Less then Mexico.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s
> >
> > > > making money.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a
> >
> > > > chain of
> > > > > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and
> > person
> > > > running all
> > > > > the sites. What are they??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > > > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
> > really
> > > > all that
> > > > > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
> > medication
> > > > than helping
> > > > > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically
> > a
> > > > doctor either
> > > > > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
> > Brooklyn
> > > > and you go
> > > > > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
> > > > matter where you
> > > > > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment
> > and
> > > > went
> > > > > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to
> > get
> > > > the same thing
> > > > > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
> > > > mention doesn’t
> > > > > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break
> > a
> > > > dope habit.
> > > > > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
> > great
> > > > doctor mash so
> > > > > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this
> > list
> > > > has many
> > > > > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,
> >
> > > > then what is the
> > > > > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > > > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
> > > > remain
> > > > > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
> > everyone
> > > > can cough up
> > > > > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
> > > > enought to comeup
> > > > > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works,
> > and
> > > > it needs
> > > > > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
> > > > fortunateto have
> > > > > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
> > obviously
> > > > not
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> >
> > > >
> > > > > %] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on
> > your
> > > > mobile phone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > > > > > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > >
> > > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > > > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Discover Yahoo!
> > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
> > Check it out!
> > > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Discover Yahoo!
> Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]OT…. matt, peace love n fried bananas.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 6:54:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hahaha captain pacifict eh……good one ;} love u and keep sending those crazy hillarious emails of urs :}

Namaste
Matthew

Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Congress is about to expand the drug war
Date: June 2, 2005 at 6:26:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes, even to Holland, that’s why we couldn’t get the usual legalize party
this year. the users place is shut down and the squoters got kicked out all
over the city of Amsterdam.
it looks like freedom is gone to jail.

the world is going crazy, I though it was me for a moment 😉
Sara

MPP Sample HTML Template #3 (National Alert)

—– Original Message —–
From: Rob Kampia
To: Preston T. Peet
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: Congress is about to expand the drug war

Marijuana Policy Project Alert   June 2, 2005

Congress is about to expand the drug war
TO:Preston T. Peet
FROM: Rob Kampia, executive director, Marijuana Policy Project
The Marijuana Policy Project is forwarding you the message below on behalf
of DownsizeDC.org.

New legislation currently making its way through the House of
Representatives poses a grave threat. If passed, H.R. 1528 will force
Americans to inform on their friends, family members, or neighbors within
24
hours of acquiring any knowledge about their involvement in drug-related
activity, including marijuana.
Please click here to stop this bill in its tracks.
As is often the case with new federal violations of civil liberties, this
bill is constructed to appear as though it is designed to protect children
from drugs, but its implications are far more sinister:
* Observe one student passing a joint to another, and you could fall under
this law. You would be required to report the incident to authorities
within
24 hours or risk prosecution and a mandatory minimum sentence of two years
in prison.
* If a neighbor under 21 mentions buying some marijuana for a party, you
would be required to report him or her to the government or risk jail time
yourself.
* If your brothers or sisters have children and mention to you that they
and
their spouses sometimes smoke marijuana in their bedroom after their kids
are asleep, you would be required to immediately inform on them or face
prison time.
You can see what a threatening new environment this proposed legislation
would create for everyone. It would erect barriers of paranoia between
friends, family members, and neighbors and is rife with potential for
police
abuse, extortion, and the creation of false informants.
DownsizeDC.org is mounting a campaign to defeat this bill. Click here to
learn more and then take action by sending a message to Congress telling
them what you think of this bill. Please send a message now, while we can
still stop this terrible legislation.
Thank you.
P.S. H.R. 1528 is supposedly designed to protect children – but the
bill
is actually anti-family. It expands mandatory minimum sentencing and
increases the ways those minimum sentences could kick in. It’s absolutely
draconian.
Passage of this bill would be a setback. It’s almost always harder to
repeal a bad law than it is to stop it from passing in the first place.
Please act now.Help fund MPP’s projects
MPP hopes that each of the 121,000 subscribers on our national e-mail list
will make at least one financial donation to MPP’s work in 2005. Please
click here to donate now.
MPP will be able to tackle all of the projects in its 2005 strategic plan
if
you and other allies are generous enough to fund our work.
Popular Links:
. MPP’s home page
. Prohibition facts
. State-by-state medical marijuana laws
. MPP news releases
. 2005 strategic plan
. Download hand-outs

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. Subscribe
. About the Marijuana Policy Project

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You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MPP’s e-mail
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]OT…. matt, peace love n fried bananas.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 6:13:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, yeh I know, it’s not just this list though, things have been insane all round.  Went to a friends b-day party in local pub on Wednesday, young eejits scrapping it out on the street, so Captain Active Pacifist, at the risk of a punch in the head, stepped in and dragged one of em off and away. When he calmed down I got Gorgeous Drunkard hugs (as in it was a real hug, not false!!) which made it all worth while!!
Also, other dramas reaching fever pitch, sumfink up for sure!!
The road to enlightenment seems covered in potholes!!  Where are those intergalactic Road Workers? Leaning on intergalactic shovels or at the movies watching Hitchikers Guide?
Shortest day is looming and we got snow to sea level today. Had to race down the hill to get “done and weekend takeaways before road got to covered!! Eek coulda been tragic!!
Luff kirk
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, 3 June 2005 9:42 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] peace love n fried bananas.

Hey K
No worries K.. some other thread is bound to pop up sooner or later which will take our attention away from all this truthfull negativity……we need some negative feedback so we can enjoy the positve feedback with more delight  …strife is what keeps us in balance as heraclitus stated..:} :}
…Everything happens for a reason and there is a reason why this is hapening…. even if it happend 1000 times before and will happen 1000 times more……love u all and the silent ones as well

Namaste
Matthew
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Congress is about to expand the drug war
Date: June 2, 2005 at 5:59:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MPP Sample HTML Template #3 (National Alert)

—– Original Message —– From: Rob Kampia
To: Preston T. Peet
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: Congress is about to expand the drug war

Marijuana Policy Project Alert   June 2, 2005

Congress is about to expand the drug war
TO:Preston T. Peet
FROM: Rob Kampia, executive director, Marijuana Policy Project
The Marijuana Policy Project is forwarding you the message below on behalf of DownsizeDC.org.

New legislation currently making its way through the House of Representatives poses a grave threat. If passed, H.R. 1528 will force Americans to inform on their friends, family members, or neighbors within 24 hours of acquiring any knowledge about their involvement in drug-related activity, including marijuana.
Please click here to stop this bill in its tracks.
As is often the case with new federal violations of civil liberties, this bill is constructed to appear as though it is designed to protect children from drugs, but its implications are far more sinister:
* Observe one student passing a joint to another, and you could fall under this law. You would be required to report the incident to authorities within 24 hours or risk prosecution and a mandatory minimum sentence of two years in prison.
* If a neighbor under 21 mentions buying some marijuana for a party, you would be required to report him or her to the government or risk jail time yourself.
* If your brothers or sisters have children and mention to you that they and their spouses sometimes smoke marijuana in their bedroom after their kids are asleep, you would be required to immediately inform on them or face prison time.
You can see what a threatening new environment this proposed legislation would create for everyone. It would erect barriers of paranoia between friends, family members, and neighbors and is rife with potential for police abuse, extortion, and the creation of false informants.
DownsizeDC.org is mounting a campaign to defeat this bill. Click here to learn more and then take action by sending a message to Congress telling them what you think of this bill. Please send a message now, while we can still stop this terrible legislation.
Thank you.
P.S. H.R. 1528 is supposedly designed to protect children – but the bill is actually anti-family. It expands mandatory minimum sentencing and increases the ways those minimum sentences could kick in. It’s absolutely draconian.
Passage of this bill would be a setback. It’s almost always harder to repeal a bad law than it is to stop it from passing in the first place. Please act now.Help fund MPP’s projects
MPP hopes that each of the 121,000 subscribers on our national e-mail list will make at least one financial donation to MPP’s work in 2005. Please click here to donate now.
MPP will be able to tackle all of the projects in its 2005 strategic plan if you and other allies are generous enough to fund our work.
Popular Links:
. MPP’s home page
. Prohibition facts
. State-by-state medical marijuana laws
. MPP news releases
. 2005 strategic plan
. Download hand-outs

MPP e-mail list options:
. Subscribe
. About the Marijuana Policy Project

Small Print .
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MPP’s e-mail alerts. To unsubscribe, click the link at the bottom of this message. Removal may take up to 48 hours. To contact MPP, please  click here or reply to this e-mail. Our mailing address is MPP, P.O. Box 77492, Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C. 20013.

To remove yourself from this mailing, please click here

To remove yourself from all mailings from Marijuana Policy Project, please click here

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] peace love n fried bananas.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 5:42:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey K
No worries K.. some other thread is bound to pop up sooner or later which will take our attention away from all this truthfull negativity……we need some negative feedback so we can enjoy the positve feedback with more delight  …strife is what keeps us in balance as heraclitus stated..:} :}
…Everything happens for a reason and there is a reason why this is hapening…. even if it happend 1000 times before and will happen 1000 times more……love u all and the silent ones as well

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] peace love n fried bananas.
Date: June 2, 2005 at 5:33:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

An excerpt from Meg Blackburn:
“Greetings to each of you! Since the star gate opened on the 17th of April, we seem to be experiencing a streamlined influx of intergalactic energies! Many of you may be feeling that you are having a hard time staying in your bodies, or staying grounded. That is because we are literally receiving more light in our bodies as the energies pass through us. Intuition seems to be wide open, as is manifestation.”
Is this what’s happening here?  The claws are out and people seem to have forgotten what Iboga is all about.  How bout you all go do some grounding exercises, take sum deep breaths and then perhaps we can get back to basics and being nice to eachother.
Well, that’s what happens in my “real world”.
Call me a fruitcake and I’ll share a slice wit cha!!!
Luff lite n chocolate n fried bananas
Capt Kirk (beat me up Scotty)
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 5:16:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t been following this conversation, but i just wanted to comment
on the comment about Mash not being an MD.

While it is true that Mash isn’t an MD, there is at least one MD (that I
know of, there may be more) who oversees the treatment sessions at Healing
Visions.  I don’t know if he’d want his name mentioned, so I wont, but he
is very knowledgeable about chemical dependency and the health and
well-being of those who are chemically dependent.

For the record i should probably state that i am an independent researcher
(at Towson University) and I have no interest in Healing Visions,
financial or otherwise.

j0n

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 5:15:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well, I’m working non profit , I’m paying some people treatments , stay,
their rent here and food/pot for days and months of recovery, yes, it is
crazy.
and I have to come up with another four thousends for my home rent, but
they all went to hell and don’t pay back. that’s why I sure stop the non
profit, because even the little I have asked is not appriciated. people
ask to reserve a month treatment and recovery and  don’t show up.
so don’t rap shit… it is all for money and profit. Okay?
people who are addict treat people who are not addict badly.it is logical
for them, come here and play the victim game.

Ibogaine can be  risky if you are not healthy and you don’t know what you
are doing, but if you are healthy and know what you are doing then it is
not risky.you also can become old on Methadone and Heroin it isnt so that
you die for sure because of the drug use,but for other reason that are
related
to drug using.

I’m new to this site but have been contemplating these opinions thats what
they are and have one of my own .. noone i know has been given ibogaine
without a consent that they understand that 1 they are ill 2 this is risky
even if your healthy 3 that your chances of survival doing dope everyday
is a dead end .. that was how i went into it anyway.i sighned the dotted
line and knew i might not make it .  i personally was saved and really it
wasn’t between me and a doctor and a setting and a  bla bla it was between
me and ,  iboga and i didn’t call ibogaine it called me , these were
frequently asked questions , do you know how you got here ,
its real easy to sit back and critisize institutions and
practitioners in a way they make themselves a target for those who
love to shoot arrows i’m guilty i’ve done it but in the last year
and a half i’ve gotton to see intention to help others in many
forms .. even beyond their own means. this is the spirit i was
introduced to that clearly rang that these were the conditions to
work with this medicine. noone is going to make alot of money.
this isn’t cosmetic surgery or cancer treatment. so really common
.if its not somewhere in peoples heart to do this work and provide
ways out of fatal chemical dependency .they wouldn’t be there .
Its really easy to judge a situation that i wasn’t even present
for based on a story someone told what truely am i looking for a
justifacation for my own beleifs a way to take sides and feel
right ,  com mon i got clean to recover from this mind set that is
so well supported in our society and wasn’t society something i
never wanted anything to
do with to begin with hence my disorder . am i really willing to
reassemble the structure that my only alternitive is to return to sleep
to be unconcience and stumble down the road thers a connection here
people.. so for a whole what 15 years this has been an alternative
treatment to a problem thats been going on like 10 or 20,000 years and if
you read anything anywhere the word experimental treatment unapproved not
goverment supported seems to be pretty prevelant. and the government in
this country will not like the idea ever of this because thers no profit
its just the way it is
rocky

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.

http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Gary,

Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
or another Mexico facility.
Steve

————– Original message ————–

KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY
KNOW ALOT MORE
THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW THESE
CHEMICALS
WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER
CREDENTIALS
HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT.
PRUDE’S SPENDS
MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK
TO HER BEFOR
YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
—–Original message—–
From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless
she can make
money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
killing people
and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not
one the last
one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.

Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are
afraid of not
making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at
least make
changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and
hiding it.

I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
expanding, St.
Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her
personally
and it costs $4,000.

Less then Mexico.

If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s
making money.

Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a
chain of
ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person
running all
the sites. What are they??

— On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really
all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication
than helping
the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either
or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn
and you go
to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
matter where you
do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and
went
way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get
the same thing
and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
mention doesn’t
she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a
dope habit.
tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great
doctor mash so
you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list
has many
functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,
then what is the
bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
remain
regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone
can cough up
the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
enought to comeup
with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and
it needs
toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
fortunateto have
the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously
not

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 5:05:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No the dead body was not Mash’s. As far as I know Mash’s lower priced
clinic has been open only a week or maybe two. I’m sure Mash doesn’t
have any dead bodies, if she did then you would have heard about it
because the media would be all over it and someone would sue the
university of miami again.

I don’t know about all the dead bodies from ibogaine association it’s
all people talking, there is only one definite dead body from them and
that was posted by MAPS, which as your about to ask me is not a person
but some self promotional psychedelics organisation, you can look that
up on the internet too.

‘mexico’ usually means ibogaine association, Mash’s first new clinic is
advanced health transitions in Cancun. If you want more info on either
one you should probably call them up, ibogaine assoication advertises
on the internet as mash’s url is listed in this message.

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Vector,
I have not been watching close to the post and your message was not
clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not. I
dont know when it happened. please let me know.

————– Original message ————–

The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.

http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Gary,

Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
or another Mexico facility.
Steve

————– Original message ————–

KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S ,
THEY
KNOW ALOT MORE
THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW
THESE
CHEMICALS
WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH
HER
CREDENTIALS
HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY
IT.
PRUDE’S SPENDS
MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND
SPEAK
TO HER BEFOR
YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
—–Original message—–
From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all,
unless
she can make
money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
killing people
and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies,
not
one the last
one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.

Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or
are
afraid of not
making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d
at
least make
changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies
and
hiding it.

I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
expanding, St.
Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by
her
personally
and it costs $4,000.

Less then Mexico.

If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s

making money.

Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a

chain of
ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and
person
running all
the sites. What are they??

— On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not
really
all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this
medication
than helping
the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically
a
doctor either
or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
Brooklyn
and you go
to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
matter where you
do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment
and
went
way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to
get
the same thing
and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
mention doesn’t
she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break
a
dope habit.
tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the
great
doctor mash so
you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this
list
has many
functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,

then what is the
bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
remain
regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not
everyone
can cough up
the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
enought to comeup
with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works,
and
it needs
toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
fortunateto have
the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:>
obviously
not

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mobile phone.

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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__________________________________
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Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.
Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

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From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 3:53:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m new to this site but have been contemplating these opinions thats what they are and have one of my own .. noone i know has been given ibogaine without a consent that they understand that 1 they are ill 2 this is risky even if your healthy 3 that your chances of survival doing dope everyday is a dead end .. that was how i went into it anyway.i sighned the dotted line and knew i might not make it .  i personally was saved and really it wasn’t between me and a doctor and a setting and a  bla bla it was between me and ,  iboga and i didn’t call ibogaine it called me , these were frequently asked questions , do you know how you got here ,
its real easy to sit back and critisize institutions and practitioners in a way they make themselves a target for those who love to shoot arrows i’m guilty i’ve done it but in the last year and a half i’ve gotton to see intention to help others in many forms .. even beyond their own means. this is the spirit i was introduced to that clearly rang that these were the conditions to work with this medicine. noone is going to make alot of money. this isn’t cosmetic surgery or cancer treatment. so really common .if its not somewhere in peoples heart to do this work and provide ways out of fatal chemical dependency .they wouldn’t be there . Its really easy to judge a situation that i wasn’t even present for based on a story someone told what truely am i looking for a justifacation for my own beleifs a way to take sides and feel right ,  com mon i got clean to recover from this mind set that is so well supported in our society and wasn’t society something i never wanted anything to do with to begin with hence my disorder . am i really willing to reassemble the structure that my only alternitive is to return to sleep to be unconcience and stumble down the road thers a connection here people.. so for a whole what 15 years this has been an alternative treatment to a problem thats been going on like 10 or 20,000 years and if you read anything anywhere the word experimental treatment unapproved not goverment supported seems to be pretty prevelant. and the government in this country will not like the idea ever of this because thers no profit its just the way it is
rocky

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.

http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

> Gary,
>
> Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> or another Mexico facility.
> Steve
>
> ————– Original message ————–
>
> > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY
> KNOW ALOT MORE
> > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW THESE
> CHEMICALS
> > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER
> CREDENTIALS
> > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT.
> PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK
> TO HER BEFOR
> > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > —–Original message—–
> > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> >
> > >
> > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless
> she can make
> > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
> killing people
> > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not
> one the last
> > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > >
> > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are
> afraid of not
> > making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at
> least make
> > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and
> hiding it.
> > >
> > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
> expanding, St.
> > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > >
> > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her
> personally
> > and it costs $4,000.
> > >
> > > Less then Mexico.
> > >
> > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s
> making money.
> > >
> > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a
> chain of
> > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person
> running all
> > the sites. What are they??
> > >
> > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > >
> > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really
> all that
> > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication
> than helping
> > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
> doctor either
> > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn
> and you go
> > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
> matter where you
> > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and
> went
> > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get
> the same thing
> > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
> mention doesn’t
> > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a
> dope habit.
> > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great
> doctor mash so
> > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list
> has many
> > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,
> then what is the
> > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
> remain
> > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone
> can cough up
> > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
> enought to comeup
> > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and
> it needs
> > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
> fortunateto have
> > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously
> not
> >
>
Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
>
> > %] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >
>
[%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
> > Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
> >
> >

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 3:30:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes, crazy today 😉

I’m stressed that’s why, I paid 10,000 euros today for the rent,
next week I will pay another four,
so I’m try to read the news as I haven’t done for ages.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 3:25:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,
I have not been watching close to the post and your message was not clear. Was the dead bodies from Mash’s facility in Mexico or not. I dont know when it happened. please let me know.

————– Original message ————–

> The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
> priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.
>
> http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — stowe01@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Gary,
> >
> > Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
> > or another Mexico facility.
> > Steve
> >
> > ————– Original message ————–
> >
> > > KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY
> > KNOW ALOT MORE
> > > THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW THESE
> > CHEMICALS
> > > WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER
> > CREDENTIALS
> > > HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT.
> > PRUDE’S SPENDS
> > > MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK
> > TO HER BEFOR
> > > YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> > > —–Original message—–
> > > From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless
> > she can make
> > > money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
> > killing people
> > > and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not
> > one the last
> > > one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> > > >
> > > > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are
> > afraid of not
> > > making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at
> > least make
> > > changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and
> > hiding it.
> > > >
> > > > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
> > expanding, St.
> > > Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > > > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> > > >
> > > > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her
> > personally
> > > and it costs $4,000.
> > > >
> > > > Less then Mexico.
> > > >
> > > > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s
> > making money.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a
> > chain of
> > > ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person
> > running all
> > > the sites. What are they??
> > > >
> > > > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > > > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really
> > all that
> > > great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication
> > than helping
> > > the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
> > doctor either
> > > or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn
> > and you go
> > > to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
> > matter where you
> > > do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and
> > went
> > > way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get
> > the same thing
> > > and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
> > mention doesn’t
> > > she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a
> > dope habit.
> > > tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great
> > doctor mash so
> > > you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list
> > has many
> > > functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,
> > then what is the
> > > bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > > > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
> > remain
> > > regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone
> > can cough up
> > > the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
> > enought to comeup
> > > with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and
> > it needs
> > > toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
> > fortunateto have
> > > the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously
> > not
> > >
> >
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> >
> > > %] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > >
> >
> [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > > Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> > mobile phone.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > > > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Discover Yahoo!
> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 2:53:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The dead body is from ibogaine association in Mexico. Mash’s lower
priced clinic just opened in the last week or something.

http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

.:vector:.

— stowe01@comcast.net wrote:

Gary,

Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico
or  another Mexico facility.
Steve

————– Original message ————–

KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY
KNOW ALOT MORE
THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW THESE
CHEMICALS
WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER
CREDENTIALS
HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT.
PRUDE’S SPENDS
MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK
TO HER BEFOR
YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
—–Original message—–
From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless
she can make
money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
killing people
and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not
one the last
one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.

Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are
afraid of not
making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at
least make
changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and
hiding it.

I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
expanding, St.
Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her
personally
and it costs $4,000.

Less then Mexico.

If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s
making money.

Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a
chain of
ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person
running all
the sites. What are they??

— On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really
all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication
than helping
the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either
or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn
and you go
to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no
matter where you
do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and
went
way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get
the same thing
and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to
mention doesn’t
she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a
dope habit.
tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great
doctor mash so
you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list
has many
functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant,
then what is the
bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks
remain
regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone
can cough up
the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
enought to comeup
with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and
it needs
toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are
fortunateto have
the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously
not

Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[

%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

[%]\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
mobile phone.

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 2:27:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gary,

Were these dead bodies from the Dr Mash facilities in Mexico or  another Mexico facility.
Steve

————– Original message ————–

> KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY KNOW ALOT MORE
> THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW THESE CHEMICALS
> WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER CREDENTIALS
> HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT. PRUDE’S SPENDS
> MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK TO HER BEFOR
> YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> —–Original message—–
> From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
>
> >
> > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless she can make
> money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is killing people
> and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not one the last
> one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> >
> > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are afraid of not
> making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at least make
> changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and hiding it.
> >
> > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is expanding, St.
> Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> >
> > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her personally
> and it costs $4,000.
> >
> > Less then Mexico.
> >
> > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s making money.
> >
> > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a chain of
> ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person running all
> the sites. What are they??
> >
> > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> >
> > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
> great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than helping
> the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a doctor either
> or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go
> to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no matter where you
> do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went
> way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing
> and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t
> she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.
> tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great doctor mash so
> you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list has many
> functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the
> bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks remain
> regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up
> the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to comeup
> with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs
> toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunateto have
> the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously not
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> %] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> >
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 2:24:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I usually keep my mouth shut and read but what if Debra Mash is getting rich off this. I applaud her. As long as her service actaully works. I have a drug problem and need to fix it. But If you feel that you have lost as much as me of me than you have to pay a price. I just want it to be what It is advertisied. You better be lucky that she is not me. I am an entepenuer and I would try to make a fortune on this stuff, if I was an a expert at saving peoples life. What is your life is worth. If you cant get the money up dont blame it on Her. She has no oath be to be charitable. Guess what I am one of the ones that cant afford the st kitts deal but I am not sore at her for the price. So get over that. You are wanting someone to feel sorry for you, that is not the real world. Like I said all I want it to do is for tghem to do what they say they will do and be honest about the results and any copmlications that they have had including deaths that have happened at there facilities and to be truthful with that and it is up to me to come up with the money. I will obtain an attorney before I go and describe the situation that way If I dont contact him by a cerftain time for him to be acting. Thats what you do instead of being mad at her for her prices. If they are making false claims that is a different story. I would cause much havoc if it was a ripoff.
————– Original message ————–

> KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY KNOW ALOT MORE
> THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT HOW THESE CHEMICALS
> WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER CREDENTIALS
> HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT. PRUDE’S SPENDS
> MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK TO HER BEFOR
> YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
> —–Original message—–
> From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
>
> >
> > I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless she can make
> money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is killing people
> and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not one the last
> one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.
> >
> > Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are afraid of not
> making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at least make
> changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and hiding it.
> >
> > I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is expanding, St.
> Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> > http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
> >
> > Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her personally
> and it costs $4,000.
> >
> > Less then Mexico.
> >
> > If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s making money.
> >
> > Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a chain of
> ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person running all
> the sites. What are they??
> >
> > — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> > From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
> >
> > Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
> great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than helping
> the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a doctor either
> or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go
> to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no matter where you
> do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went
> way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing
> and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t
> she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.
> tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great doctor mash so
> you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list has many
> functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the
> bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> > her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks remain
> regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up
> the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to comeup
> with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs
> toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunateto have
> the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously not
> Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[
> %] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
> >
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: “Gary Press” <gary@bluemooncapital.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:YOU ALL DONT HAV A CLUE
Date: June 2, 2005 at 10:58:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

KEEP GOING TO THE MD WHO GIVE YOU OXY’S PERC’S AND ROXI’S , THEY KNOW ALOT MORE THAN MASH BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN MD. SHE KNOWS  MORE ABOUT HOW THESE CHEMICALS WORK ON THE BRAIN AND WHERE IN THE BRAIN. HOW MANY OF YOU WITH HER CREDENTIALS HAVE GONE TO A GOVT ORG LIKE THE FDA WITH LIMITED $ , YOU TRY IT. PRUDE’S SPENDS MORE ON POLITICIANS THAN SOME STATE BUDGETS. GO MEET HE AND SPEAK TO HER BEFOR YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE BULL SHIT HERE.
—–Original message—–
From: “Cheryl” cherylca@myway.com
Date: Wed,  1 Jun 2005 14:49:41 -0600
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless she can make money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is killing people and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not one the last one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely.

Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are afraid of not making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at least make changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and hiding it.

I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is expanding, St. Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her personally and it costs $4,000.

Less then Mexico.

If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s making money.

Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a chain of ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person running all the sites. What are they??

— On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran  wrote:
From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a doctor either or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.   tink tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:  i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to comeup with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunateto have the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:> obviously not Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]\]=———————————————————————=[/            Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

_______________________________________________
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Make My Way  your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 2, 2005 at 8:27:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good question, Where is the data. SHOW ME THE DATA!!!!!!  St Kitts had Kamlet and who know what he is doing. Mexico has mexican docs- Good luck ?

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 2, 2005 at 8:23:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have to agree.

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 2, 2005 at 3:43:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

then you also can say Howard saved your life.
without Howard Mash would be doing this in the first place.

Sara

the great part was 70% sarcasm..but she did save my life, in a way, i
don’t know.

On 6/1/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place
and
get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it.
Actually,
in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in
Bklyn
than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to
the
same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she
only
give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
obviously not Tink

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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 2, 2005 at 2:24:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We all know that this ..WHY…. will not move this medication
anywhere, no matter how many proves we have since the 60′
that it works.
druggies create jobs. Jobs are more important then sober people.
you create a big job market all over the planet even there are wars created
for drug users, people are killed daily in northen Tailand for protecting
Poppies, opium
fields, Taliban war and more.

Mash is trying to fit into an American system, if you do X you wouldn’t get Y
grands and fund from … and then what? that’s  already happened in
Vancouver as if the Canadians are dependent on American funds.
you do as we tell you or otherwise … the finger will point and there
will be no project.

it is better to talk good about yourself then shit about others, but when
you have nothing good to tell about yourself then talking shit about others
is what left to do.

Sara

This was a wonderful way of putting it Lorenzo, thank you.

As a person, there is nothing wrong with anything she’s doing, as a
businesswomen there is no wrong.

As a scientist…………………………………………………..

Kamlet is one of her doctor’s from St. Kitts. He was a very nice
person at the ibogaine conference, though the first words out of his
mouth were the prices aren’t his fault, he doesn’t work for Healing
Transitions, he’s a consultant 🙂 Which is the same thing Patrick
says.

Methinks you both protest too much, you may have love and loyalty to
the person, but neither one of you gets up there and rah rah’s her
scientific efforts to move this medication anywhere. Mr. Kroupa and
Kamlet, for two people who have so much charisma, both of you show a
marked lack of enthusiasm talking about her data and the FDA.

Enough said. Thank you both for all you do.

KV

On 6/1/05, Lorenzo <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com> wrote:
I think it’s a better thing if Dr. Mash has opened a clinic with her
own
doctors for $4,000. This is reasonable price for medical ibogaine detox.
For
addicts and I am sure Mash, this is very good. I know Mash has helped
many,
Patrick is here and so Mindvox is here and he is always personal with
his
gratitude which is right I think. In ways all of us are here right now
because Dr. Mash helped Patrick, I see no problem there or with offering
good priced, safe ibogaine detox. Kudos to all. The problem is this is
Patrick’s mother and her relationship with him, that is all personal and
very nice for them, then that’s Mash the businesswoman, also nice for
her in
spite of “losing money” or “making no money” i’m sure. What is missing
always is Dr. Mash the scientist who makes claims for 10 years now?
Papers
will be submitted to FDA “next month” for how many years?
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com/media01.html
http://www.ibogaine.net/mediaarticle9.html Quote: “Dr. Mash
will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next
month.
She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on
her
results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United
States.”
Mash’s web sites, Mash’s quotes. Her words, not someone else claiming
what
she said or did. How many times, years can she say the same thing and
expect
anyone to believe? Scientists publish results so that knowledge of
humanity
increases. Am I wrong in this? Dr. Mash uses science to control and
manipulate ibogaine development and make herself money. That is where it
become not so ethical anymore. There is no fight with FDA, there is no
data
to fight about, there is nothing. Poor people getting help is somehow
stopping ibogaine development? I am sorry but I can’t see that view at
all.
Howard is big reason we are all here. What Howard got from Dr. Mash is
robbed and sued. I have never heard of Kamlet, I don’t know who that
person
is, is this the new scientists from California doing ibogaine research
also?
Ron or like that? Cheers Lorenzo

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From: stowe01@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 2, 2005 at 1:10:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lorenzo,
do you know where I can find the number or website for this reduced price clinic
Thanks, Steve
————– Original message ————–
I think it’s a better thing if Dr. Mash has opened a clinic with her own doctors for $4,000. This is reasonable price for medical ibogaine detox. For addicts and I am sure Mash, this is very good. I know Mash has helped many, Patrick is here and so Mindvox is here and he is always personal with his gratitude which is right I think. In ways all of us are here right now because Dr. Mash helped Patrick, I see no problem there or with offering good priced, safe ibogaine detox. Kudos to all. The problem is this is Patrick’s mother and her relationship with him, that is all personal and very nice for them, then that’s Mash the businesswoman, also nice for her in spite of “losing money” or “making no money” i’m sure. What is missing always is Dr. Mash the scientist who makes claims for 10 years now? Papers will be submitted to FDA “next month” for how many years? http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com/media01.html http://www.ibogaine.net/mediaarticle9.html Quote: “Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United States.” Mash’s web sites, Mash’s quotes. Her words, not someone else claiming what she said or did. How many times, years can she say the same thing and expect anyone to believe? Scientists publish results so that knowledge of humanity increases. Am I wrong in this? Dr. Mash uses science to control and manipulate ibogaine development and make herself money. That is where it become not so ethical anymore. There is no fight with FDA, there is no data to fight about, there is nothing. Poor people getting help is somehow stopping ibogaine development? I am sorry but I can’t see that view at all. Howard is big reason we are all here. What Howard got from Dr. Mash is robbed and sued. I have never heard of Kamlet, I don’t know who that person is, is this the new scientists from California doing ibogaine research also? Ron or like that? Cheers Lorenzo — On Wed 06/01, Cheryl < cherylca@myway.com > wrote: From: Cheryl [mailto: cherylca@myway.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash Do you read any of the messages before you reply to them? I don’t mean to disrespect you but everyone knows the scare stories. Being mad about the underground won’t ever change anything you know that too I’m sure. What I wrote in my first message was exactly that. Mash has more clinics open, they said their doctors are trained by Mash, it’s her clinic. It costs $4,000 not $12,500. She is at least offering a much cheaper treatment with her own doctors in Mexico. Call them and ask them, advanced health transitions, they will tell you it is Dr. Mash’s clinic, her doctors, $4,000 for ibogaine treatment for 4 days, no 2 week program only the detox. I think Mash is a very smart lady who has helped a lot of rich people, she’s a businesswomen, she is opening more ibogaine clinics with her own trained doctors, that are affordable. That sounds like a good thing, what are you ranting abut? — On Wed 06/01, < Schmoolyboy@aol.com > wrote: From: [mailto: Schmoolyboy@aol.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet know that one dead body equals an ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will ever approve this drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway. But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Todd’s anger and wish for rape of others
Date: June 1, 2005 at 11:21:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Todd I have to agree here with what Preston has written and what
Matthew wrote before him. I can understand that walking into the list
when all that went by yesterday might not be the best introduction or
put anyone in a good light, there were other messages including one of
mine who objected to morning wood through your reply was the only one
as violent as his.

The one message you replied to shows a disgusting little person who
should be scraped off someone’s shoe. That’s his problem, reading more
into it his reply is beyond all reason to attack Carla like that and
it sounds more like he got rejected for making advances in private or
who knows, it wasn’t a nice message, he isn’t a nice person, many
aren’t, as Preston said he frequently posts annoying drivel here.

Drug addiction is a frustrating hellish mess for those of us who have
lived with it and continue to live with it. There are no easy answers
and you may have anger at your son, but his addiction is not going to
listen to your anger. If you want help for your son, stick around for
a while there are many people who post here who share informative or
even enlightening messages and thoughts that make me feel better about
my day.

Todd what Matthew and Preston have said is also true, addicts don’t
steal and act the way they do because they are bad people, they do it
out of desperation that the so called war on drugs has brought to
them. I don’t think anyone here planned to become a addict, once
addicted then what? You should ask yourself that question if you are
looking to get help for your son. I understand your anger, but it
won’t make the problem go away and yes your taxes will keep paying for
the whole mess from start to finish, the police, the court time, the
prison cells, the rehabs, the legal opiates, the therapy bills, the
whole mountain. Try to remember that the next time you vote.

Thanks for your consideration.

KV

On 6/1/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Todd Barbarossa wrote, in part,

You act like trash, you’re stuck in a hole you dug for yourself. That’s
your own damn problem, my taxes should be going to bail you out? I don’t
think so. I work for my living.<

I suppose it’s a matter of perspective Todd.
Your taxes are already going to incarcerate and otherwise make life even
more hellish for addicted people, so I guess it comes down to the simple
question- would you prefer you taxes go towards helping the continuance of
the War on Some Drugs and Users, including family and friends and neighbors
(in your instance, your son), or would you prefer that your taxes help
reduce some of the harms than can and do sometimes occur from drug abuse
(not all use equals abuse obviously)?

Then you wrote >If you can’t afford treatment, go steal something, shouldn’t
be anything new for most of you.<

Just before you continued on to >To you who wrote what this lady is replying
to, get arrested go to prison, get raped, beaten and get off drugs in a
prison cell. Thats about what you deserve boy. Only thing I’d add is you
should work your sorry ass off so my
taxes aren’t paying to take care of you there either.<

“Go steal something” and “Go to prison, get raped, beaten and get off drugs
in a prison cell. That’s about what you deserve boy.” This is such utter
bullshit, I’m appalled that you would actually write that on a list full of
people either struggling to get off drugs or to stay off drugs and to make a
better life for themselves, regardless of some ibogaine list posters’
stupidity here. No one “deserves” getting imprisoned and raped for writing
something in an email no matter how offensive (as much as I personally
cannot stand the person who wrote the original drivel of a note, and usually
doesn’t post anything much more substantial than that one either), nor do
they deserve such treatment for buying/selling/using ANY DRUGS WHATSOEVER.
Sorry, but I let people who write such hostile posts get under my skin
sometimes. I really should ignore your note, but for some reason I’ve let it
really bother me, so I’m bothering to reply, even though it wasn’t addressed
to me.
I’ve personally taken ibogaine 3 times now, having quickly gone back to
shooting drugs after the first two times. This time I’m still doing ok, but
it’s done nothing for making it easier for me to deal with people who
complain about how their taxes might be used to “bail out” addicts (not sure
what you mean either- bail them out of jail, or out of addiction?),
especially when your taxes are currently being used to incarcerate addicts,
expose them to almost sure rape and abuse while imprisoned, and to bomb and
poison other people in other countries all across the globe all due to lies
and deceits. They’re also used for all sorts of other horrific, inhuman
activites- do these bother you as much as the idea that your taxes might be
used to help addicts attain a slightly better life?
In other words, your note has left me a bit confused, and I’m not sure
what you’re trying to say here. Are you implying that because some of the
people who post here (or posted here yesterday anyway) have had an argument
or posted stupid, thoughtless, heartless and cruel comments, you feel they
deserve rape and imprisonment? Are you saying that you want to find
treatment for your son, and are willing to pay for it for him, but not to
pay any taxes to help alliviate the suffering of any other addicts? Are you
someone who prefer we pay no taxes, or just no federal or some other
specific taxes?
All this said, I wish you the best in your search for help for your son,
and hope he finds what he needs without force or mandated treatment becoming
one of his options. That said, I hope you stick around a while to see if
perhaps someone else might post something more to your liking, or at least
with more of the information you’re looking for, whatever it is.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Todd Barbarossa” <toddbarbarossa@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart

I signed up to this list to research drug treatment options for my son.

Reading through what landed in my inbox yesterday makes it hard for me to
remember that most of you are very sick and have a illness. The way some
of you express yourselves doesn’t reach out to anyone or make them care.

Drug addicts are dying every day from the war on drugs.

With some of you here, good riddance. You act like trash, you’re stuck in
a hole you dug for yourself. That’s your own damn problem, my taxes should
be going to bail you out? I don’t think so. I work for my living.

If you can’t afford treatment, go steal something, shouldn’t be anything
new for most of you.

To you who wrote what this lady is replying to, get arrested go to prison,
get raped, beaten and get off drugs in a prison cell. Thats about what you
deserve boy. Only thing I’d add is you should work your sorry ass off so
my taxes aren’t paying to take care of you there either.

Todd Barbarossa

From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 19:34:47 -0400

What a charming and witty person you are, I’m sure you have many
friends and are a big hit with the ladies.

Trickster may be a aspiration, but no need to flatter yourself. From
what I’ve read here from you, you’ve made it as far as village idiot.
If that was your goal, congratulations.

KV

On 5/31/05, Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am power tripping and acting like
egomaniac

Carla never talks to anyone directly and looks like she isn’t  living any
of
advice she keeps giving.

I need to get laid more.  I will go pee on myself now.
Carla B

(this won’t make Dana or Ben’s newletter)

I consider Carla therapy  a total luxury really, having someone be
interested in all the little
dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great.

/]
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 11:00:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This was a wonderful way of putting it Lorenzo, thank you.

As a person, there is nothing wrong with anything she’s doing, as a
businesswomen there is no wrong.

As a scientist…………………………………………………..

Kamlet is one of her doctor’s from St. Kitts. He was a very nice
person at the ibogaine conference, though the first words out of his
mouth were the prices aren’t his fault, he doesn’t work for Healing
Transitions, he’s a consultant 🙂 Which is the same thing Patrick
says.

Methinks you both protest too much, you may have love and loyalty to
the person, but neither one of you gets up there and rah rah’s her
scientific efforts to move this medication anywhere. Mr. Kroupa and
Kamlet, for two people who have so much charisma, both of you show a
marked lack of enthusiasm talking about her data and the FDA.

Enough said. Thank you both for all you do.

KV

On 6/1/05, Lorenzo <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com> wrote:
I think it’s a better thing if Dr. Mash has opened a clinic with her own
doctors for $4,000. This is reasonable price for medical ibogaine detox. For
addicts and I am sure Mash, this is very good. I know Mash has helped many,
Patrick is here and so Mindvox is here and he is always personal with his
gratitude which is right I think. In ways all of us are here right now
because Dr. Mash helped Patrick, I see no problem there or with offering
good priced, safe ibogaine detox. Kudos to all. The problem is this is
Patrick’s mother and her relationship with him, that is all personal and
very nice for them, then that’s Mash the businesswoman, also nice for her in
spite of “losing money” or “making no money” i’m sure. What is missing
always is Dr. Mash the scientist who makes claims for 10 years now? Papers
will be submitted to FDA “next month” for how many years?
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com/media01.html
http://www.ibogaine.net/mediaarticle9.html Quote: “Dr. Mash
will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next month.
She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on her
results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United States.”
Mash’s web sites, Mash’s quotes. Her words, not someone else claiming what
she said or did. How many times, years can she say the same thing and expect
anyone to believe? Scientists publish results so that knowledge of humanity
increases. Am I wrong in this? Dr. Mash uses science to control and
manipulate ibogaine development and make herself money. That is where it
become not so ethical anymore. There is no fight with FDA, there is no data
to fight about, there is nothing. Poor people getting help is somehow
stopping ibogaine development? I am sorry but I can’t see that view at all.
Howard is big reason we are all here. What Howard got from Dr. Mash is
robbed and sued. I have never heard of Kamlet, I don’t know who that person
is, is this the new scientists from California doing ibogaine research also?
Ron or like that? Cheers Lorenzo

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Todd’s anger and wish for rape of others
Date: June 1, 2005 at 10:59:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Todd Barbarossa wrote, in part,

>You act like trash, you’re stuck in a hole you dug for yourself. That’s your own damn problem, my taxes should be going to bail you out? I don’t think so. I work for my living.<

I suppose it’s a matter of perspective Todd.
Your taxes are already going to incarcerate and otherwise make life even more hellish for addicted people, so I guess it comes down to the simple question- would you prefer you taxes go towards helping the continuance of the War on Some Drugs and Users, including family and friends and neighbors (in your instance, your son), or would you prefer that your taxes help reduce some of the harms than can and do sometimes occur from drug abuse (not all use equals abuse obviously)?

Then you wrote >If you can’t afford treatment, go steal something, shouldn’t be anything new for most of you.<

Just before you continued on to >To you who wrote what this lady is replying to, get arrested go to prison, get raped, beaten and get off drugs in a prison cell. Thats about what you deserve boy. Only thing I’d add is you should work your sorry ass off so my
taxes aren’t paying to take care of you there either.<

“Go steal something” and “Go to prison, get raped, beaten and get off drugs in a prison cell. That’s about what you deserve boy.” This is such utter bullshit, I’m appalled that you would actually write that on a list full of people either struggling to get off drugs or to stay off drugs and to make a better life for themselves, regardless of some ibogaine list posters’ stupidity here. No one “deserves” getting imprisoned and raped for writing something in an email no matter how offensive (as much as I personally cannot stand the person who wrote the original drivel of a note, and usually doesn’t post anything much more substantial than that one either), nor do they deserve such treatment for buying/selling/using ANY DRUGS WHATSOEVER.
Sorry, but I let people who write such hostile posts get under my skin sometimes. I really should ignore your note, but for some reason I’ve let it really bother me, so I’m bothering to reply, even though it wasn’t addressed to me.
I’ve personally taken ibogaine 3 times now, having quickly gone back to shooting drugs after the first two times. This time I’m still doing ok, but it’s done nothing for making it easier for me to deal with people who complain about how their taxes might be used to “bail out” addicts (not sure what you mean either- bail them out of jail, or out of addiction?), especially when your taxes are currently being used to incarcerate addicts, expose them to almost sure rape and abuse while imprisoned, and to bomb and poison other people in other countries all across the globe all due to lies and deceits. They’re also used for all sorts of other horrific, inhuman activites- do these bother you as much as the idea that your taxes might be used to help addicts attain a slightly better life?
In other words, your note has left me a bit confused, and I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you implying that because some of the people who post here (or posted here yesterday anyway) have had an argument or posted stupid, thoughtless, heartless and cruel comments, you feel they deserve rape and imprisonment? Are you saying that you want to find treatment for your son, and are willing to pay for it for him, but not to pay any taxes to help alliviate the suffering of any other addicts? Are you someone who prefer we pay no taxes, or just no federal or some other specific taxes?
All this said, I wish you the best in your search for help for your son, and hope he finds what he needs without force or mandated treatment becoming one of his options. That said, I hope you stick around a while to see if perhaps someone else might post something more to your liking, or at least with more of the information you’re looking for, whatever it is.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Todd Barbarossa” <toddbarbarossa@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart

I signed up to this list to research drug treatment options for my son.

Reading through what landed in my inbox yesterday makes it hard for me to remember that most of you are very sick and have a illness. The way some of you express yourselves doesn’t reach out to anyone or make them care.

Drug addicts are dying every day from the war on drugs.

With some of you here, good riddance. You act like trash, you’re stuck in a hole you dug for yourself. That’s your own damn problem, my taxes should be going to bail you out? I don’t think so. I work for my living.

If you can’t afford treatment, go steal something, shouldn’t be anything new for most of you.

To you who wrote what this lady is replying to, get arrested go to prison, get raped, beaten and get off drugs in a prison cell. Thats about what you deserve boy. Only thing I’d add is you should work your sorry ass off so my taxes aren’t paying to take care of you there either.

Todd Barbarossa

From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 19:34:47 -0400

What a charming and witty person you are, I’m sure you have many
friends and are a big hit with the ladies.

Trickster may be a aspiration, but no need to flatter yourself. From
what I’ve read here from you, you’ve made it as far as village idiot.
If that was your goal, congratulations.

KV

On 5/31/05, Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am power tripping and acting like
egomaniac

Carla never talks to anyone directly and looks like she isn’t  living any of
advice she keeps giving.

I need to get laid more.  I will go pee on myself now.
Carla B

(this won’t make Dana or Ben’s newletter)

I consider Carla therapy  a total luxury really, having someone be
interested in all the little
dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great.

/] =———————————————————————  =[\
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\] =———————————————————————  =[/

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From: “Lorenzo” <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 10:31:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think it’s a better thing if Dr. Mash has opened a clinic with her own doctors for $4,000. This is reasonable price for medical ibogaine detox. For addicts and I am sure Mash, this is very good. I know Mash has helped many, Patrick is here and so Mindvox is here and he is always personal with his gratitude which is right I think. In ways all of us are here right now because Dr. Mash helped Patrick, I see no problem there or with offering good priced, safe ibogaine detox. Kudos to all. The problem is this is Patrick’s mother and her relationship with him, that is all personal and very nice for them, then that’s Mash the businesswoman, also nice for her in spite of “losing money” or “making no money” i’m sure. What is missing always is Dr. Mash the scientist who makes claims for 10 years now? Papers will be submitted to FDA “next month” for how many years? http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com/media01.html http://www.ibogaine.net/mediaarticle9.html Quote: “Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United States.” Mash’s web sites, Mash’s quotes. Her words, not someone else claiming what she said or did. How many times, years can she say the same thing and expect anyone to believe? Scientists publish results so that knowledge of humanity increases. Am I wrong in this? Dr. Mash uses science to control and manipulate ibogaine development and make herself money. That is where it become not so ethical anymore. There is no fight with FDA, there is no data to fight about, there is nothing. Poor people getting help is somehow stopping ibogaine development? I am sorry but I can’t see that view at all. Howard is big reason we are all here. What Howard got from Dr. Mash is robbed and sued. I have never heard of Kamlet, I don’t know who that person is, is this the new scientists from California doing ibogaine research also? Ron or like that? Cheers Lorenzo — On Wed 06/01, Cheryl < cherylca@myway.com > wrote: From: Cheryl [mailto: cherylca@myway.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash Do you read any of the messages before you reply to them? I don’t mean to disrespect you but everyone knows the scare stories. Being mad about the underground won’t ever change anything you know that too I’m sure. What I wrote in my first message was exactly that. Mash has more clinics open, they said their doctors are trained by Mash, it’s her clinic. It costs $4,000 not $12,500. She is at least offering a much cheaper treatment with her own doctors in Mexico. Call them and ask them, advanced health transitions, they will tell you it is Dr. Mash’s clinic, her doctors, $4,000 for ibogaine treatment for 4 days, no 2 week program only the detox. I think Mash is a very smart lady who has helped a lot of rich people, she’s a businesswomen, she is opening more ibogaine clinics with her own trained doctors, that are affordable. That sounds like a good thing, what are you ranting abut? — On Wed 06/01, < Schmoolyboy@aol.com > wrote: From: [mailto: Schmoolyboy@aol.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet  know that one dead body equals an ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will  ever approve this drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway. But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 9:58:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you read any of the messages before you reply to them? I don’t mean to disrespect you but everyone knows the scare stories. Being mad about the underground won’t ever change anything you know that too I’m sure. What I wrote in my first message was exactly that. Mash has more clinics open, they said their doctors are trained by Mash, it’s her clinic. It costs $4,000 not $12,500. She is at least offering a much cheaper treatment with her own doctors in Mexico. Call them and ask them, advanced health transitions, they will tell you it is Dr. Mash’s clinic, her doctors, $4,000 for ibogaine treatment for 4 days, no 2 week program only the detox. I think Mash is a very smart lady who has helped a lot of rich people, she’s a businesswomen, she is opening more ibogaine clinics with her own trained doctors, that are affordable. That sounds like a good thing, what are you ranting abut? — On Wed 06/01, < Schmoolyboy@aol.com > wrote: From: [mailto: Schmoolyboy@aol.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:48:23 EDT Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet  know that one dead body equals an ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will  ever approve this drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway. But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sex and drugs by Preston Peet
Date: June 1, 2005 at 9:45:20 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, (Please do NOT pass these on elsewhere. Thanks. They are so-far unpublished and it would be best if they didn’t go further before the book’s release I suppose.)
I’m sending two articles attached here, with excerpts below so you can decide if you’d like to open and read these attached articles. They are both going into Russ Kick’s new anthology for the Disinformation Company (disinfo.com), Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong (or some such title like this). The first (“Sex and…Drugs” is more of a news/commentary article about, well, sex and drugs and what people think about them and how they combine the two, while “Close Contact” is a personal, first-person account of hard core drug addiction on the streets of NYC.)
Enjoy and to everyone who donated quotes for the Sex and Drugs piece, I extend my heartfelt thanks, and even…well, no, I won’t offer sexual favors, sorry, even though the second story makes it appear I might have my price. My price would be MUCH higher these days than it was once upon a time.
;-))
——

Sex and…Drugs
by Preston Peet
(copyright 2005-footnotes are in the attached article Sex and…Drugs)

{TITLE} Sex and.Drugs
{AUTHOR} Preston Peet

“It is obvious that sex and drugs together can lead to more extraordinary and paranormal trans-ego experiences than either sex or drugs alone,” the incomparable Robert Anton Wilson once wrote.[1] Wilson also described the fears raised by the mention of either sex or drugs amongst the more hung-up, fundamentalist, prohibitionistic members of our modern society. “H.L. Mencken once defined Puritanism as ‘the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be having a good time.’ One deeply entrenched reflex of Western culture is that post-puritan hangover which Dr. Wilhelm Reich called pleasure anxiety. This can be defined non-technically as the suspicion that maybe the puritan god exists after all and if we do manage to have a good time he will rear up and give us bloody hell for it.”[2]

As aphrodisiacs, as lubricants in social settings, as a tool to assist in seducing a potential partner, to help make the sexual act a more magical and mystical experience, there is no set reply-everyone this writer discussed sex and drugs with while researching this article reports a different view of both the purpose(s) of taking drugs with their sex (or sex with their drugs, as the case may be) and of the results. Despite the rampant sex phobias and drugs phobias that many in roles of authority labor under, which in large part are used to manipulate the populace into supporting our current world-wide drug prohibitions, millions of people across the globe still use drugs, both legal and illegal, and many if not most do, at least sometimes, combine their drugs with sex. Is Wilson correct, that the reason many people take drugs in combination with sex is to enhance their sexual experience? Or is the sex often a result of the drug use itself, an inadvertent accident where one wakes in the morning, looks across the bed, and says through a throbbing headache and pasty mouth, “Oh shit, what have I done?”

Both sex and drugs are often targets of those puritan descendents mentioned by Wilson, and of politicians and law enforcers who need a scapegoat to blame for this or that problem or social ill and to insure a continued source of revenue for their coffers. But both are so much fun, with the possible yet at times very real negative consequences so far out of the mind and down the road for most, for young people in particular, that few heed the calls for stricter controls and for less of both. Whether they’re aphrodisiacs for arousal, illegal drugs for thrills or enlightenment, or pharmaceuticals for staying power, drugs and sex go hand in hand, nearly inseparable.

{SUBHEAD} Alcohol

{BLOCK QUOTE}
“Alcohol is the big one. I already have my lessons for my daughter worked out. ‘Look, some guy plying you with drinks isn’t doing it out of charity. He’s spending his good money on booze for you for one reason.’ My guess is we all have a few ancestors and, therefore, ourselves here because of drunken sex.”-Steven Anker, television and commercial/video director (Outer Limits, Dinosaurs, Jimmy Kimmel Live, more)
—
“Chemicals such as opiates, methamphetamines, and downs of any kind, including alcohol, can make me limp as a wet lettuce leaf. Women can sometimes hide these effects, but no man I’ve met can. In youth, of course, we think we are immortal and God-like strong, but in sexual success it is only a matter of your youth, not the chemical. Let’s face it, inhibited desire is the point to beat, not a limp ‘junior’!
“I know with sex I want to give or receive something special, and most folks I talked to agree: A little bit of your favorite sugar can make you feel like a Tyrannosaurus (I mean like maybe two drinks, one joint, etc.), but go over whatever is your dose to do the job, and you fail. Drunk girls can be very uninhibited, but they smell and pass out easily. If I still drank, it would be no different!”-TR, subscriber to DrugWar.com email list
{END BLOCK QUOTE}

By the nineteenth century, the tide of moralistic prohibitionism was firmly rising in the US, with a variety of failed attempts by some US states to discourage and/or control alcohol use through high taxation and outright banning only strengthening the temperance movement’s resolve. The Reverend Howard Hyde Russell’s Anti-Saloon League, founded in 1895, launched one of the very early anti-drug campaigns in the US, aimed at hard liquors and spirits and the saloons that sold them, with advertisements and handbills printed up proclaiming such scientific messages as, “Alcohol inflames the passions, thus making the temptation to sex-sin unusually strong.”[3]

This perception, that alcohol use often leads to rampant immoral sexual practices, continues right to this day, based in part on reality, and in part on moralist fearmongering. The BBC reported in March 2005 that by that October, British “TV advertisers are to be banned from portraying alcohol as an ‘aid to seduction’ or showing it alongside themes strongly appealing to under 18s.” The aim is to discourage positive linking by youth of drinking and sex. “They should also refrain from making links to sexual motive or include sexual contact, and ads should not imply that sexual activity has taken place or is about to take place. Any which contain themes likely to draw in the under 18s will also be forbidden.”[4]

snip-

—-

Close Contact

by Preston Peet
(Chapter 17 of the still as yet unpublished book “Something in the Way”
Copyright 2000)

“Need a ride?”

The first time I’d heard this from a passing car, I’d been mortified,
letting the driver know in no uncertain terms that “no,” I did not want a
ride and to get the hell away from me. As soon as the driver had pulled away
though I’d regretted my quick response. Having smoked the last of my cash
buying crack cocaine, I couldn’t believe I’d just turned down what promised
to be very easy money. At that point in time I’d not ever sold body for cash
to buy drugs, but from that point on, I was on the lookout with the idea
bouncing around in my head until I’d finally landed on Palm Avenue, downtown
Sarasota, Florida’s cruise strip, landing a ride in short order.

From that night forward I’ve hustled every city I’ve lived in, both for
drugs and simply for cash when on the streets trying to figure out where I
was going to go next. I tried in Tampa but never had any luck, and Orlando
was only slightly better. Atlanta, while not as dry as some places was the
only place I’ve ever been arrested on the prowl for a ride, garnering myself
a misdemeanor civil disobedience charge for not leaving the area fast enough
after some undercover cops told me to do so. By the time I hit Amsterdam I
was busking for my cash, but in the midst of such a cold brutal Winter it
was very hard, hampering my ability to make cash standing playing guitar on
the streets, what with all that ice and snow everywhere. Therefore I did
occasionally take the offer of a warm bed, companionship and some easy cash.
In London I’d stayed away from the hustling angle, managing to do pretty
well just playing guitar and singing, but now in NYC and completely strung
out, without a guitar either, it’s inevitable that I take the offers when
they do sometimes come.

“I know how to make some money,” Sean leers at me as we sit in Tompkins
Square Park by the kids’ pool, regarding our now empty cookers and rigs.

“Oh yeah? How’s that?” I need my drugs and am willing to try most any scam
to obtain more.

“I know a guy who lives up on 14th St., who’ll pay to give you a blow job
and pay me for bringing you over there.”

At first I hesitate, not having turned a trick for over a year, but
completely without drugs it doesn’t take me long to agree to it.

Stopping first at a payphone to make sure he’s in and open to a visit, we
walk to the West Side, meeting up with Sean’s friend outside a deli at the
corner of 5th Ave. and 14th St. Exchanging pleasantries, Sean introduces us,
then Sean’s friend Jonathan withdraws money from the ATM inside the deli.
Sean takes a couple of proffered bills and leaves. Jonathan leads me in and
up the elevator to his swanky 16th floor apartment.

At this point I really only want to get this over, whatever it entails. I
want my cash so I can hit the road. I’m jonsing pretty hard for more cocaine
and will need more heroin soon as well, not having had more than a bag all
night. But Jonathan is in no hurry. Unlocking his door, he holds it open,
waving me into the air conditioned interior. As hot and humid as the Spring
air is outside, I don’t pay much attention, still thinking mainly of the
next shot to come.
snip-
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 8:49:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

by the way, 10-15 mgs/per kg of pure HCL will absolutly break a dope habit.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 8:48:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tell that to the Dead bodies. I’m glad you did a discount treatment illegally in Brooklyn. You where obviously healthy. but there are many who where treated by Mash who would could have died had she not had competent experts there to treat every possible emergency.

If Mash could do it cheaper she would. If we all could give this to everyone for free we would. But Mash and Kamlet  know that one dead body equals an ice bergs chance in hell that the FDA will  ever approve this drug.

Yes, Mexico and clandestine providers help many who might have died anyway. But the real goal is legalization. Mash and Kamlet and Howard and others work towards that end. Dead bodies and good meaning nonprofessionals acting as treatment providers = The FDA saying NO NO NO NEVER!!!!!!!

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 8:48:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the great part was 70% sarcasm..but she did save my life, in a way, i
don’t know.

On 6/1/05, mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and
get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually,
in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn
than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the
same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only
give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
obviously not Tink

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: June 1, 2005 at 8:30:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Todd
Thats a prety agresive and ingnorant way to aproach as complex a subject as adiction>dont u think>?
We steal, kill, rob and do all kinds of fucked up shit because having a habit is just that.  It doesnt let u do anything else.  It only wants to be fed more and more.  Moral implications dont apply in to this equation im afraid.
Have u ever been dope sick>? do u know what its like to get up in the morning with a couple hundreed dollar habit and no legitmate way to pay for it>?  do you know the agony your body and mind go through when you are comiong down.
I think if u posesed some kind of REAL knowledge into addiction you would revise your whole stance on the issue.
undoubetly it is wrong to break into peoples houses, steal wahtever do whatever but when you are in a vicous circle of hell my friend nothing else matters–only the next hit
my friend your “taxes” will keep paying for us drugies.  They will pay for our rehabs, our theraphist, our “opiate maintance programs” all the good stuff that does fuck all.
Thats the way its going to be.
May i make a suggestion.  Sure i may.  Please try to relax and not take this so seriously and personaly.   You are inteligent enogh to relize its not going to change.  it will only get worse before it gets better, so better be preaperd.  And btw that stuff about the jail etc was way out of line my brother.
Keep on reading and researchiing the wonderfull word of ibogaine.  May your son find peace and happiness.
Wishing u all the best
P.s
Your statemnt that we created this hell hole for ourselves is very biased.  We choose to inject this drug into our bodies or to put that pipe in our mouths but did we realize where it would lead>?  I really dont think so.  Ask most opiate addicts about their first haibt and they will honestly tell u that they got caught of guard.  Who knew the wd is going to be such a fucken drag.  NOBODY.  so the problems just mulitply.

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “Todd Barbarossa” <toddbarbarossa@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: June 1, 2005 at 6:57:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I signed up to this list to research drug treatment options for my son.

Reading through what landed in my inbox yesterday makes it hard for me to remember that most of you are very sick and have a illness. The way some of you express yourselves doesn’t reach out to anyone or make them care.

Drug addicts are dying every day from the war on drugs.

With some of you here, good riddance. You act like trash, you’re stuck in a hole you dug for yourself. That’s your own damn problem, my taxes should be going to bail you out? I don’t think so. I work for my living.

If you can’t afford treatment, go steal something, shouldn’t be anything new for most of you.

To you who wrote what this lady is replying to, get arrested go to prison, get raped, beaten and get off drugs in a prison cell. Thats about what you deserve boy. Only thing I’d add is you should work your sorry ass off so my taxes aren’t paying to take care of you there either.

Todd Barbarossa

From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 19:34:47 -0400

What a charming and witty person you are, I’m sure you have many
friends and are a big hit with the ladies.

Trickster may be a aspiration, but no need to flatter yourself. From
what I’ve read here from you, you’ve made it as far as village idiot.
If that was your goal, congratulations.

KV

On 5/31/05, Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am power tripping and acting like
egomaniac

Carla never talks to anyone directly and looks like she isn’t  living any of
advice she keeps giving.

I need to get laid more.  I will go pee on myself now.
Carla B

(this won’t make Dana or Ben’s newletter)

I consider Carla therapy  a total luxury really, having someone be
interested in all the little
dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great.

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
Date: June 1, 2005 at 6:03:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The martin polenco clinic in Mexico has lost patients, I’ve been hearing stories about that for a long time now. The same stories say the last one at least will be published because Randy Hencken quit and told people about it. This has been going around since March or sooner, everyone I’ve ever talked to who has been treated in the underground knows it. I don’t care what Mexico or Mash do, what I said was that most ibogaine clinics are there to make money not save the world. I would never detox with either Mash’s clinics or Mexico, so it doesn’t matter to me. What I’ve lived is that almost everyone, not everyone but _almost_ everyone involved in drug treatment is there to make more money off the backs of the addicts, its a business that’s all. Methadone, detox, after care, all of it, is about making money. Is that wrong? Idont know what all Mexico did or how many people died there, but I’m sure there are at least hundreds who did not die and got some help. However much she charges, I’m sure Mash has also helped hundreds and maybe yes only the rich but most rich addicts I’ve know need help too. — On Wed 06/01, < sara119@xs4all.nl > wrote: From: [mailto: sara119@xs4all.nl] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:42:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts > hey, no one can say “they are killing” addicts, you can’t prove it.
>

Sara

> I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless she
> can
> make money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
> killing people and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead
> bodies, not one the last one was only the one they couldn’t cover up
> completely.
>
> Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are
> afraid of
> not making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d
> at least
> make changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and
> hiding it.
>
> I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is
> expanding, St.
> Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
> http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com
>
> Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her
> personally and it costs $4,000.
>
> Less then Mexico.
>
> If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s making
> money.
>
> Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a chain of
> ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person
> running
> all the sites. What are they??
>
> — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran wrote:
> From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
>
> Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all
> that
> great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
> helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really
> technically a
> doctor either or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico
> and in
> Brooklyn and you go to the same place and get what you need to get if
> your open no matter where you do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a
> much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn than I did in
> Mexico.
> 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the same place
> seems like
> a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only give 12 or 15
> mg/kg
> ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit. tink
> tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote: i have been to the great doctor
> mash
> so you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list
> has
> many functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can
> rant, then
> what is the bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
> her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks remain
> regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone can
> cough up the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s
> hard
> enought to comeup with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is
> that it
> works, and it needs toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only
> those
> who are fortunateto have the money to do it.On 6/1/05,
> Schmoolyboy@aol.com
> wrote:> obviously not
> Tink/]
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> email on
> your mobile phone.
>
> _______________________________________________
> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
>
>

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
Date: June 1, 2005 at 5:42:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey, no one can say “they are killing” addicts, you can’t prove it.

Sara

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless she can
make money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is
killing people and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead
bodies, not one the last one was only the one they couldn’t cover up
completely.

Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are afraid of
not making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at least
make changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and
hiding it.

I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is expanding, St.
Kitts goes to the same phone place as this
http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com

Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her
personally and it costs $4,000.

Less then Mexico.

If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s making
money.

Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a chain of
ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person running
all the sites. What are they??

— On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran  wrote:
From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that
great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than
helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a
doctor either or at least not an M.D. I’ve been treated in Mexico and in
Brooklyn and you go to the same place and get what you need to get if
your open no matter where you do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a
much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico.
12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the same place seems like
a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg
??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.   tink
tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:  i have been to the great doctor mash
so you can just shove that rightup your ass! I think that this list has
many functions, and if ithelps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then
what is the bigfucking deal?mash saved my life, i will always love
her for that, and yes, it issafer to go there, but the risks remain
regardless. Yes they areincredibly well equipped, but not everyone can
cough up the $12,500she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard
enought to comeup with rent.At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it
works, and it needs toavailable for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those
who are fortunateto have the money to do it.On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com
wrote:> obviously not
Tink/]=———————————————————————=[\[%]
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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash and Mexico killing addicts
Date: June 1, 2005 at 5:11:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think Mash cares about the common addict at all, unless she can make money at it but that makes her no different then Mexico who is killing people and then covering it up. I keep hearing at least 3 dead bodies, not one the last one was only the one they couldn’t cover up completely. Did they do that because they care so much about ibogaine or are afraid of not making more money. You would think after one dead body they’d at least make changes so it won’t happen again, not keep adding dead bodies and hiding it. I called three centers about detox this last week, Mash is expanding, St. Kitts goes to the same phone place as this http://www.advancedhealthtransitions.com Another Mash detox, they said all the doctors are trained by her personally and it costs $4,000. Less then Mexico. If Mash is charging $4,000 for a Mexico detox, you know she’s making money. Patrick what are all these? Someone else said she’s opening a chain of ibogaine detoxes in Mexico. You are listed as the owner and person running all the sites. What are they?? — On Wed 06/01, mcorcoran < mcorcoran27@yahoo.com > wrote: From: mcorcoran [mailto: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
> obviously not Tink

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mash
Date: June 1, 2005 at 3:40:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Correct me if I’m wrong but “The Great Dr. Mash” is not really all that great, caring more about a claim to fame through this medication than helping the common addict who suffers. And shes not really technically a doctor either or at least not an M.D.
I’ve been treated in Mexico and in Brooklyn and you go to the same place and get what you need to get if your open no matter where you do it. Actually, in all honesty I got a much better treatment and went way deeper in Bklyn than I did in Mexico. 12,500 or 1,500 to get the same thing and go to the same place seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention doesn’t she only give 12 or 15 mg/kg ??? That aint even enough to break a dope habit.

tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass! I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless. Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days. Or 10. what ever. It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
> obviously not Tink

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bless your heart
Date: June 1, 2005 at 2:30:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason’s usual plea for attention

&*()&*()& that’s funny, who’s attention I wonder…

like
constantly snipping at Dana Beal.
&*()&*() If x writes something about Dana then it will be called:
He’s trolling.
&*()&*()&*()&*() I’m to retarded to understand how you reached that conclusion.  Help me out with that one  please.
Maybe he had a worse then usual day.
&*(* maybe, maybe not who cares, by the way you can talk to me directly, your eyes won’t turn to stone and I won’t even call you a troll if I don’t like what you type
that was more like the spirit of a prison rape, then ibogaine.
&*()&*() you may or may not be exagerating a bit there

Jason I really don’t care how wise you are in your own mind,
*()_*()_  I’m  not wise and don’t claim to be.  when did I say I was wise?
am i dreaming right now?  am i in an infomercial?

what drugs you’ve done. I haven’t wasted my
whole life like you,
&*(&*() I haven’t wasted my life, far from it.  I’m 27 years old.  what is wasted?  I have no regrets.  and my life isn’t past tense, it just the wack jobs here are the only peeps around that don’t ask what’s that if Ibogaine is brought up.

it must suck, I’m sorry for you.
&*() don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine, be carefull with assumptions if you can, sorry if that’s like too wise or whatever, just picture me saying durrrr afterwards

In case you don’t
get it, none of that makes you cool,
&*() not here to impress anyone or appear cool, please see previous comment about my retard pride./
“none of that makes you cool” who the fuck are you the cool police.  eat shit.

it makes you a socially retarded
dumbass.
&*()&*() finally you get it.  it’s not my fault. it’s my <enter X here> YES YES YES  you win you win Patrick will give you a prize now.

I know you aren’t here for anyone but yourself and don’t owe anyone
anything like you like to say            all the time
&*()&*( I beleive I said that once,that’s kinda like always forever I guess

(what about all the people
who spent their time treating you and getting you off methadone?).
&*()that is between me and them or not.  I have no doubt you or anyone would have done the same thing.

Maybe you need to do more ibogaine
#%##%#% no thanks

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From: fire3456@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….
Date: June 1, 2005 at 1:42:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 00:38:51 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….

again I caution all to be off of Bup products for at least 14 days prior to Ibo or you can DIE from the combo!!!!!!!

Could you expand on that?

I was able to get in on a short notice for Ibo treatment.  1st time I only had time to get off Bup for 3 days.  2nd time I was only off Bup for 1 1/2 weeks (Switched to short acting).

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 1:01:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can you say more about which psych drugs interact with ibogaine and
how?

On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:28:48 -0700 Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
The Fang are also not tweeked sick junkies who abused their bodies

with
crack and speed and a shit load of psych drugs that interact with

ibogaine.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: June 1, 2005 at 11:25:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know the medical effects of low-dose protracted use.
Subjectively I became run-down and prone to catching cold over a
two-month period of on the order of .1 mg/kg three times a week. My
intuitition is that, other things being equal, the less iboga the
better for the body. I expect that low dosage is safer for self-
administration, but am concerned that long-term continuous use may
have its own dangers.

On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:59:03 -0700 basel novo
<baselnovo@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: “Rick Strcat” <rickstrcat@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 05:31:07 +0000

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:48:08 -0700

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this
purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I
were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few
hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or
down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

Thanks very much for the info.  If you could describe the effects

at that
low dosage, especially changes in blood pressure and pulse rate
(if any),
that would be really helpful.

Btw, the reason I’m asking is that I’m still trying to figure out
whether
the medical concerns about iboga self-treatment essentially go
away at the
dosage levels you describe.  Comments on this from anyone are
welcome.
Thanks.

Thanks.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for
personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that
the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep
change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose
experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I
would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them
here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for
a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over
several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from
anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: June 1, 2005 at 9:29:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeay sara

On 6/1/05, sara119@xs4all.nl <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

There is a reason Mash has no deaths.

here too,and I have been treated people Mash refused to treat.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 9:26:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thankyou for your words of wisdom, matt, and namaste to you
love tink

On 6/1/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

LOL LOL LOL….nobody is getting rich of ibogaine>???????????

UMM a doctor with such credentials as Mash is definetly not making good
money!!!

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium.
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 9:25:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

mash’s “reduced rate” the last time i asked was around 9 grand.  wanna
pull a heist?

On 6/1/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
I swore to myself that I would not do this but you have fucking pissed me
off. Yea, I called Ms Mash about my treatment, she hung the phone up when my
mother asked her how much. ” If you have to ask how much
then……………..dial tone. Look dick, not everybody has the cash to go
down to St. Kitts. I wish I had, maybe I would have something else to be
egotistical about. But alas, no dough no go. Just curoius, how much is that
reduced rate you are talking about? I will stop now before I say some shit I
will regret later on.    Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: June 1, 2005 at 6:30:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I got treated by the underground September the 28th last year. My experience could not have been any more therapeutic in St. Kitts and if someone had wanted to stick an IV in my arm I wouldn’t have got as much from the trip. I would have known it was there and obsessed about it. I was extremely fortunate to be able to do it in my Air Stream in the middle of the woods, I could hear the peepers over the buzzing in my ears. My provider was perfect for me. He left me alone when he needed to and he was right there when I got sick or just wanted to talk. We took my blood pressure a couple of times but like Schmooly says, Ibogaine lowers your blood pressure and I have a very strong heart so I told ’em to just forget about it and I tripped on. It never got below the parameters. Over all, that treatment and this list has changed me forever……………..Fuckin’ list has twisted me into some kinda freak or sumpin’.                Randy

From: “Fakeplacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Randy
Date: June 1, 2005 at 6:17:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,
What treatment; would you inform me?

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

I swore to myself that I would not do this but you have fucking pissed me off. Yea, I called Ms Mash about my treatment, she hung the phone up when my mother asked her how much. ” If you have to ask how much then……………..dial tone. Look dick, not everybody has the cash to go down to St. Kitts. I wish I had, maybe I would have something else to be egotistical about. But alas, no dough no go. Just curoius, how much is that reduced rate you are talking about? I will stop now before I say some shit I will regret later on.    Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Schmooly
Date: June 1, 2005 at 6:14:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The wedge motor in the Road Runner is rumbling like the space shuttle right before take off. I roll through the water and nail it, I can feel the car rise as the 32 inch slicks get narrow during the burn out. Man that rocks, horse power and massive torque. We dialed in at 10.18 today. Who says you can’t go “really” fast with a 440 motor. Back up and stay away from any water on the track. First light turns yellow, nudge it up some, of course the other guy is staged already, fuck him, let him idle and get hot,…….. staged………the lights fall………………………the g forces are unreal under full acceleration when the car really hooks well and everything is jetted just right, not too much nitro methane additive, just right. Good air and the track is stickin’.  No red lights so hold it to the floor and shift when you get to 6500 rpms……………………………..sorry bout your luck dude.                 Randy   PS I’m sorry I called you a dick.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 6:07:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL LOL LOL….nobody is getting rich of ibogaine>???????????
UMM a doctor with such credentials as Mash is definetly not making good money!!!

Namaste
Matthew

Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 5:19:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I swore to myself that I would not do this but you have fucking pissed me off. Yea, I called Ms Mash about my treatment, she hung the phone up when my mother asked her how much. ” If you have to ask how much then……………..dial tone. Look dick, not everybody has the cash to go down to St. Kitts. I wish I had, maybe I would have something else to be egotistical about. But alas, no dough no go. Just curoius, how much is that reduced rate you are talking about? I will stop now before I say some shit I will regret later on.    Randy

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: June 1, 2005 at 2:59:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a reason Mash has no deaths.

here too,and I have been treated people Mash refused to treat.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 1:13:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

allow me to differentiate between “it works” and “it works if you have
an excellent set of plans for aftercare”.  I’d be dead without mash,
i’d be dead without this list and my therapist, and i’d be dead if
hadn’t worked EXTREMELY hard to stay as clean as possible, even after
a serious relapse.
just because someone sounds off doesn’t mean they don’t have any idea
what’s going on.  It also doesn’t mean that they do.

On 6/1/05, tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass!  I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless.  Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days.  Or 10.  what ever.  It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com <Schmoolyboy@aol.com> wrote:
obviously not Tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:54:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i have been to the great doctor mash so you can just shove that right
up your ass!  I think that this list has many functions, and if it
helps keep someone clean cuz they can rant, then what is the big
fucking deal?
mash saved my life, i will always love her for that, and yes, it is
safer to go there, but the risks remain regardless.  Yes they are
incredibly well equipped, but not everyone can cough up the $12,500
she charges these days.  Or 10.  what ever.  It’s hard enought to come
up with rent.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is that it works, and it needs to
available for EVERYONE who needs it, not only those who are fortunate
to have the money to do it.

On 6/1/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com <Schmoolyboy@aol.com> wrote:
obviously not Tink

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:45:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

obviously not Tink

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:44:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ICU nurses, a fully stocked ICU setting doctors who can treat any and all emergencies, the best equipment- That is Kitts. and they do it with a whole lota love. many are treated at a reduced rate. I know . I have been there.

Now where do you want your love ones treated.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:41:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mash has no money Guess what She is not rich and works 80 hours a week  to pay her bills. No body is getting rich on Ibogaine. Stop the crap already..

St Kitts has no dead bodies because they do it right and doing it right costs $

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:38:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

again I caution all to be off of Bup products for at least 14 days prior to Ibo or you can DIE from the combo!!!!!!!

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:37:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibo with Doctors is much safer. It all depends on which doctor. Just cause the guys are nice and caring dosn’t mean they know shit about cardiology or the pharmaco kinetics of ibo.

There is a reason Mash has no deaths. They have 3 docs with credentials up the ass and 3 ICU nurses and many therapists and Kamlet who is ER trained and an addictionologist and an advanced cardiac life support instructor and blah blah blah. All patients are screened and theyknow what to look for . The mexico guys did not understand why they where getting ECG’s at all.

There is cardiac ischemia and cardiac arrthymias and then cardiac electrical changes and ibo’s effect on cardiac calcium and potasium channels and all that need to be taken in account including what drugs the client was on and what prescription meds they where on.

Mash and her crew are the only ones who truly kniow what they are doing and can explain it to you. This can’t be taught to lay people. Doc’s with this kind of expertice go to school for 25 years to learn this stuff and most doc’s even the good ones do not have the training to deal with ibo.

that’s just the plan truth like it or not.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Stoned Inuits……..
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:31:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder if they are reprocessing their urine and recycling ibogaine
from the time before they moved across the land bridges of the
paleolithic age and over to alaska.  that way they can be HAPPY while
they catch the whales and dry and smoke the blubber.
just a thought(?)
HI KIRKY!!!!!!!!!!  YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love
tink

On 6/1/05, Capt Kirk <captkirk@free.net.nz> wrote:

They dry and snort Whale blubber which apparently contains some
sedative/opiate quality when cured in a certain way.

Don’t ask me for references to this, my mind runs purely on fantasy………

Luff n pixies n faeries

Kirk

________________________________

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 1 June 2005 1:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart

OK, thats it, I can’t take this shit without sayin’ sumpin’. Is this some
kind of attempt at starting a useless thread about absolutely nothing? OK
I’m game. Let’s figure out what the Inuits are getting high on. Think about
it. These people are sitting on ice and they look higher than a rats ass on
Kilimanjaro. Just what the hell are they doing for a buzz?  Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:28:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

trolling.  I vaguely remember that.  And hear hear on the maybe he’s
having a worse day than usual.  gawd knows i have ’em.  But what about
the inuits?
:]heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey tink

On 5/31/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
That was out of line. It’s Jason’s usual plea for attention like
constantly snipping at Dana Beal.

He’s trolling.

Maybe he had a worse then usual day.

I’m not the most mature person, I post off topic, guilty as charged but
that was more like the spirit of a prison rape, then ibogaine.

Jason I really don’t care how wise you are in your own mind, how much
methadone you’ve been on, what drugs you’ve done. I haven’t wasted my
whole life like you, it must suck, I’m sorry for you. In case you don’t
get it, none of that makes you cool, it makes you a socially retarded
dumbass.

I know you aren’t here for anyone but yourself and don’t owe anyone
anything like you like to say all the time (what about all the people
who spent their time treating you and getting you off methadone?).

Maybe you need to do more ibogaine or light a candle for yourself. That
was pathetic.

.:vector:.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
OK, thats it, I can’t take this shit without sayin’ sumpin’. Is this

some kind of attempt at starting a useless thread about absolutely
nothing? OK I’m game. Let’s figure out what the Inuits are getting
high on. Think about it. These people are sitting on ice and they
look higher than a rats ass on Kilimanjaro. Just what the hell are
they doing for a buzz?  Randy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it …
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:24:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my plan right this very second is to drink a glass of wine and smoke a
joint so i can get thru the next 4 hours of night without screaming.
I stopped thurs, and only took 2 mgs on mon.  My long term plan?
Complain till I find somebody to treat my ass.  I’m having a hard time
tonight, please excuse the tone, but it’s where my head is at.  I DO
NOT RECOMMEND JUMPING OFF TOO SOON!!!
Only if you have some serious back up or are doing it for an impending
treatment.
I’ll write more tomorrow, when I’m not so, ummm, freakin’ icky?
On 5/31/05, Fire3456@aol.com <Fire3456@aol.com> wrote:

Hey Tink,

The same happened to me.  Dropping from 16 to 2 didn’t seem to hard.  From 2
down to 1 mg per day was a lot harder and took more time than I expected.
I’m going to a DR to get some meds to assist with the final w/d’s I will be
having.

What kind of schedule do you have to taper down from the 2mgs your at now?

My plan is to taper off in 3 weeks.  Then try and stay clean.  And then take
vacation from work.  I’m going to try a maintenance dose of Ibogaine at that
time.  After I’ve been off the Sub for at least 3 weeks.

Good luck!

In a message dated 05/31/2005 12:27:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:
I was on 20 and dropped to 8 in two weeks, and it took my body and
brain about another 2 weeks to catch up with me  I was down to 2 mgs,
and it sucks far more at the lower dose when it comes to withdrawal.
It’s always those last few mgs that kick my ass.  it takes about 4
days to really feel the effect of the kick form it, or at least for
me.  yucka.
love tink
thax howard/fire3456

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Stoned Inuits……..
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:23:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They dry and snort Whale blubber which apparently contains some sedative/opiate quality when cured in a certain way.
Don’t ask me for references to this, my mind runs purely on fantasy………
Luff n pixies n faeries
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 1 June 2005 1:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart

OK, thats it, I can’t take this shit without sayin’ sumpin’. Is this some kind of attempt at starting a useless thread about absolutely nothing? OK I’m game. Let’s figure out what the Inuits are getting high on. Think about it. These people are sitting on ice and they look higher than a rats ass on Kilimanjaro. Just what the hell are they doing for a buzz?  Randy

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