Ibogaine List Archives - 2004.12-1

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga
Date: December 31, 2004 at 10:18:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, so this Krishna dude wasn’t into herbs at all? Anything that treats or prevents disease is a drug but I’m probly just being pedantic!! :oP
Some stuff on here goes way over my head sometimes LOL
Duh
K.I.S.S.
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]  Sent: Saturday, 1 January 2005 7:23 a.m. To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga

Hi !1
Drugs , what kind of drugs ? Legal or illegals ? if is talking about illegal drugs I can continue to smoke, get drunk and get hight on prescribed drugs? . Or is was refering to legal drugs ?/! Or to all drugs ?
God Bless

—– Original Message —–
From: Iboga_planteur
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick

Krishnamurti was against the use of any drugs, what do you think he would have thought about Eboka?
Thanks!
Planteur
—–Message d’origine—– De : Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] Envoyé : vendredi 31 décembre 2004 15:48 À : ibogaine@mindvox.com Objet : RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick

Hi Nick,

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

Krisnamurti argued that we should not accept anybody’s beliefs etc. That we should find out things for ourselves and hence I have lived my life by this dictum: What is, is what is not. So I know you will understand that while I am happy to be challenged by your views there is no way I am going to depart from a path I have spent a life time finding, which has transformed my life remarkably, simply because you may consider it a folly of sorts.

One of the major stumbling blocks I went through was to let go of the simplistic catholic teachings that encouraged me to accept how things were and to seek peace of mind through a simple connection to Christ, along a few guidelines which generally played on guilt that I should be grateful for what I had. THANKS BE TO GOD I GOT RID OF THAT CROCK OF SHIT IN MY LIFE! Hence, I was very excited when I didn’t find Krisnamurti – I found myself!

So when I read what you write it reminds me of the religious teachings, Catholic included, that close the doors to many other possibilities based on the idea that it is right. Because you have not experienced something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Think of me as spiritually immature if you wish but I am, in my opinion, a very, very blessed man. In the words of Karma, I have watched my Karma from this life burn and leave me and also Karma from my past life which I have relived through eboga. I am measurably a far different man whose experience of life is utterly transformed. I am someone who feels in a way I have not since I was a child.

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

A question: why is the idea that we have a path and work to do on that path to grow our own souls so alien to you? I am asking the question for the gut response and not the intellectual one. Is it something to do with your own catholic upbringing?

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didn’t work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesn’t matter what system you use as long as you get where you are going…a car, a plane, a train, a bicycle….

Where I disagree:

1. “Whether you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind, there’s nothing to relate it to.”

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. “NO MIND”, as interconnected spiritual phenomena.

2. “The only “spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.”

Not my personal experience but it is the experience of many. In my experiences with eboga I am continually (these days with a cleaner ego) surrounded and helped by spirits and I see them as not I – yet we are one at a deeper level of spiritual insight. I feel a great love and respect for them. That is my experience. I see souls as separate entities that are also utterly connected.

That is what makes for the greatness of “GOD” as it can have so many separate parts that are at the same time “ONE.” Contrast this with planet earth that has so many individuals who are unable to work for the good of one another and most certainly do not act as ONE!

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things:

1. “We are the source.”

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

2. “Everything that can be related is relative.”

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

3. “With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.”

Yes, I have a lot more of it now because of the work I have done with eboga. And because I have recognised my humanity and how it works the doors are now opening to a higher state of mind. This is the work you seem to have difficulty accepting as necessary. I think this is the crux of your debate – you dislike any system of thought that leaves you with something to do.

4. “My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the mind that’s having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is. They don’t do anything because there’s no possibility you could ever be anything other than 100% who you are.”

Yes, and through the work we learn this but first we need to learn the reasons behind the blockage and in doing so the blockage falls away and we grow spiritually to be a differentiated soul that fully participates in the whole which then makes the whole greater: GOD GROWS.

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of “NO MIND” as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: “You are unclean. You touched that woman!” He replied: “I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.”

Love & Light,

Lee

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!
Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> —–Original Message—– > From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: 26 December 2004 16:37 > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & Hell – att Jasen > > > Hi Nick, > > I wrote a considered reply but it got gobbled up when > I hit send on my TV > internet connection back in Ireland. So I will keep > this one “brief.” >  Hi Lee,  Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!  > In the same way there is probably a unifying field > theory that > explains all phenomena in this dimension, I believe > there is also > a source from which all comes and through the power of > creation, > which you and jasen have alluded, much has been > created. >  there is no unifying field theory. the universe IS a unified field. it doesn’t need a theory in order to be. The occasional desire that rises in humans to create unifying field theories is merely the field having fun with itself. There is nothing outside of the field to even call it a field.  > If we only look to the source we miss the nature of > what has derived > from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders. >  we are the source, man. Everything that can be related is relative. Whether you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind, there’s nothing to relate it to. For sure, you can TRY and look at the source or something.  With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.  > I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the > spiritual and work to > integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that > enourages ignorance of one > or the other. >  My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the mind that’s having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is. They don’t do anything because there’s no possibility you could ever be anything other than 100% who you are. Of course, we all of us, certainly me, regularly experience an intense desire to challenge this.  > I have a question for you: > > Who or what for you are the spiritual helpers who work > through the eboga > spirit and bring so much healing to so many? Should > they be ignored or is > a certain amount of gratiude in order? >  Personally, I feel gratitude, for sure, even though my own iboga initiation in the Cameroun was a pretty crazy and haphazard affair. And the only ”spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself. I’ve had some unbelievably brutal and unbelievably blissful experiences but they’ve all seemed to be just me talking to me. That was my experience.  with love  Nick   > A Happy New Year to you > > Lee > > > — Nick Sandberg wrote: > > > > —–Original Message—– > > From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] > > Sent: 20 December 2004 17:34 > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & > > Hell – att Jasen > > > > > > Hi Jasen, > > > > Forgive me for saying this (100% respect intended) > > but I am sorry, I dont > > think it is that simple. > > > > Lee, > > > > The truth is very simple when it hits. It is > > insanely simple. I was in the > > Humaniversity in Holland, very spaced out on the AUM > > > ===== > http://www.my-eboga.com > > Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the > media available here: > > www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com   /]=———————————————————————=[ \ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[ /       /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 31, 2004 at 5:41:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tim Leary effected though his promotion of LSD the way millions of

people think. Maybe even tens of millions, maybe more. How do
you
discredit that?

BBC: “Timothy Leary, the counter-culture guru of the Sixties, who
urged his generation to “tune in, turn on, drop out” informed on
friends and helpers in order to get out of jail early.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/380815.stm

I saw his actions as being self-involved, publicity-seeking, and
irresponsible overall. I wish that LSD had not received the
publicity he gave it, although one could argue that the way LSD was
publicised was due to the gestalt of the times, and would have
happened anyway.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:17:25 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/28/04 8:59:13 PM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk
writes:

<< Didn’t Leary get discredited in the end or was that

just bad press? >>

Tim Leary effected though his promotion of LSD the way millions of

people
think. Maybe even tens of millions, maybe more. How do you
discredit that?

Howard

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga
Date: December 31, 2004 at 1:23:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Iboga_planteur
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick

Krishnamurti was against the use of any drugs, what do you think he would have thought about Eboka?
Thanks!
Planteur
—–Message d’origine—–
De : Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Envoyé : vendredi 31 décembre 2004 15:48
À : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Objet : RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick

Hi Nick,

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didnt work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesnt matter what system you use as long as you get where you are goinga car, a plane, a train, a bicycle.

Where I disagree:

1. Whether you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind, there’s nothing to relate it to.

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. NO MIND, as interconnected spiritual phenomena.

2. The only “spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things:

1. “We are the source.”

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

2. “Everything that can be related is relative.”

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

3. “With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.”

4. My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the mind that’s having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is. They don’t do anything because there’s no possibility you could ever be anything other than 100% who you are.

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of NO MIND as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: You are unclean. You touched that woman! He replied: I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.

Love & Light,

Lee

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 26 December 2004 16:37
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & Hell – att Jasen
>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> I wrote a considered reply but it got gobbled up when
> I hit send on my TV
> internet connection back in Ireland. So I will keep
> this one “brief.”
>

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

> In the same way there is probably a unifying field
> theory that
> explains all phenomena in this dimension, I believe
> there is also
> a source from which all comes and through the power of
> creation,
> which you and jasen have alluded, much has been
> created.
>

there is no unifying field theory. the universe IS a unified field. it
doesn’t need a theory in order to be. The occasional desire that rises in
humans to create unifying field theories is merely the field having fun with
itself. There is nothing outside of the field to even call it a field.

> If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
> what has derived
> from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.
>

we are the source, man. Everything that can be related is relative. Whether
you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know
this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind,
there’s nothing to relate it to. For sure, you can TRY and look at the
source or something.

With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

> I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
> spiritual and work to
> integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
> enourages ignorance of one
> or the other.
>

My personal experience is that spiritual endeavours are just there for the
mind that’s having trouble dealing with just how simple life actually is.
They don’t do anything because there’s no possibility you could ever be
anything other than 100% who you are. Of course, we all of us, certainly me,
regularly experience an intense desire to challenge this.

> I have a question for you:
>
> Who or what for you are the spiritual helpers who work
> through the eboga
> spirit and bring so much healing to so many? Should
> they be ignored or is
> a certain amount of gratiude in order?
>

Personally, I feel gratitude, for sure, even though my own iboga initiation
in the Cameroun was a pretty crazy and haphazard affair. And the only
“spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.
I’ve had some unbelievably brutal and unbelievably blissful experiences but
they’ve all seemed to be just me talking to me. That was my experience.

with love

Nick

> A Happy New Year to you
>
> Lee
>
>
> — Nick Sandberg wrote:
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
> > Sent: 20 December 2004 17:34
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven &
> > Hell – att Jasen
> >
> >
> > Hi Jasen,
> >
> > Forgive me for saying this (100% respect intended)
> > but I am sorry, I dont
> > think it is that simple.
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > The truth is very simple when it hits. It is
> > insanely simple. I was in the
> > Humaniversity in Holland, very spaced out on the AUM
>
>
> =====
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
> media available here:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick
Date: December 31, 2004 at 1:19:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 31 December 2004 14:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick

Hi Nick,

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

Hi Lee,

I don’t consider what you’re doing to be folly. I just put my energy out, that’s all.

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

Well, I’m anglo-iranian but was brought up good old C of E protestant.

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didnt work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesnt matter what system you use as long as you get where you are goinga car, a plane, a train, a bicycle.

It’s a good point. I do training at the Humaniversity in Holland where they are constantly battling to keep people moving towards more feeling when their mind is attracted to saying “Everything is alright as it is.” There’s no easy way out of the position. It’s just part of the whole drama of existence. Existence grows you, what to do?

Where I disagree:

1. Whether you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind, there’s nothing to relate it to.

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. NO MIND, as interconnected spiritual phenomena.

I’m not creating the distinction soul/not soul, just pointing toward what is existential true – (hideous word I know, existential! Makes things sound complicated) What is beyond all distinctions?

Whilst you are relating to the world from the perspective Ego/not ego (I/not I) then therapy is easy because it makes total sense to “improve yourself”. With the onset of a different perspective so the challenges get stronger because there is always the option to deal with the existential truth that nothing changes, as that is also your experienced reality. You also can’t play small any longer, you can’t hide behind the facade of “little me”, this little being in a vast sea, because there is also the awareness that you experientially are the vast sea. Life for the mind gets harder because it is constantly confronted with two opposing perspectives. I read what you write about spirituality and souls etc and part of me longs to be going back to such a singular perspective. But the truth is that it’s no longer my reality. I don’t have a choice to take a spiritual path because I already know there’s nowhere it could possibly lead to. Frankly, it’s a fucking drag half the time, but that’s how things are for me.

with love

Nick

2. The only “spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things:

1. “We are the source.”

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

2. “Everything that can be related is relative.”

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

3. “With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.”

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of NO MIND as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: You are unclean. You touched that woman! He replied: I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.

Love & Light,

Lee

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

> If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
> what has derived
> from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.
>

With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

> I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
> spiritual and work to
> integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
> enourages ignorance of one
> or the other.
>

with love

Nick

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Iboga_planteur” <iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick
Date: December 31, 2004 at 12:21:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Krishnamurti was against the use of any drugs, what do you think he would have thought about Eboka?
Thanks!
Planteur
—–Message d’origine—–
De : Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Envoyé : vendredi 31 décembre 2004 15:48
À : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Objet : RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick

Hi Nick,

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didnt work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesnt matter what system you use as long as you get where you are goinga car, a plane, a train, a bicycle.

Where I disagree:

1. Whether you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind, there’s nothing to relate it to.

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. NO MIND, as interconnected spiritual phenomena.

2. The only “spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things:

1. “We are the source.”

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

2. “Everything that can be related is relative.”

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

3. “With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.”

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of NO MIND as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: You are unclean. You touched that woman! He replied: I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.

Love & Light,

Lee

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

> If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
> what has derived
> from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.
>

With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

> I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
> spiritual and work to
> integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
> enourages ignorance of one
> or the other.
>

with love

Nick

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 31, 2004 at 11:47:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Man

TV was never banned in South Africa. The government of the time was just too short-sighted to create the facilities to broadcast.

I was a kid in high school when the first broadcasts took place in South Africa, and the reason given at the time was that TV would be too expensive to do. That at a time when our neighbour, Zimbabwe had it for many years. Now if you look at Zimbabwe these days and compare with SA – what a difference! (not that I think TV had anything to do with the current wave of greed, nepotism and the likes).

I agree about the then SA policies being wrong, but thought I had to set the picture right. A lot of atrocities apparently happened, but TV was not one of them (to my knowledge the cost of setting up was the key issue, and my dad was in the know, being a member of the “Broederbond”, loosely translated as “band of brothers”, with the sole purpose of putting white afrikaner men in key positions to further the cause of apartheid.) In the early 80’s the Broederbond seemed to undergo a metamorphosis and the accent fell on cultural issues rather than skin colour issues.

However, I hope I have not offended in any way, and wish all you guys (including the female parts) a very good 2005.

Charles Rossouw.
Pretoria – also known as Moustache City (Snor city in our local lingo)

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:10 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!

>Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon S.
Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes in
three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant being that
the South African government did not permit television broadcasting until
1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. [and
Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent during
the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South Africa,
by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.<

To which I reply, with all the love I can send, I swear- are you really going to use this to bolster some kind of argument that tv causes violence using South Africa’s banning of tv “until 1975” and their subsequent “low” white violence rates? LOL! That is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while.
I never thought South Africa’s apartied policies could be considered funny in any way, but this “study” has certainly come very, very close to making South Africa’s apartied funny, in that I want to know: if Apartied is considered “violence,” and I myself do consider it so, and if tv was banned there, why the apartied?
Better, I want to know if the study’s authors released this with a straight face.
;-))
Also, I did see just tonight as a matter of fact, something on History Channel about the fact that during the Korean war military researchers decided that not enough US troops were “shooting to kill,” and that was because they were being trained on paper targets instead of life-like dummies that looked more human. With that in mind, I could see how playing videogames where we shoot life-like people could be incorporated into that same theory, that by training to do so it might increase shoot-to-kill rates in real battle. But I still doubt that it’s the videogames making kids violent, or that kids are more violent today than in days or yore. There are all sorts of horror stories, not to mention all out wars, too many of both throughout history for me to believe it. Sorry.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Hi Preston !
You ask a very pertinent question :
< are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?) and how media
and video games can influence our society regarding violence
IMO yes ,the facts :
.Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is a retired psychiartrist from West Point, and he
spend most of his life studing the psycology behind the killing.
http://www.killology.com/
The military during the first war discover that only about 15 % where
actualy using their arms with intention to kill. It’s in fact very difficult
to take one human being life, at least it was. During the second war about
44 % where using their weapons with the intention to kill. During the Irak
war of 1991 , 90 % of the soldiers where using theirs weapons to kill. That
the infortunate progression.

Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon S.
Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes in
three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant being that
the South African government did not permit television broadcasting until
1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. [and
Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent during
the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South Africa,
by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&db_id=cp104&r_n=sr234.104&sel=TOC_9090
You will find interesting results of several studies showing the constant
relation between media conditioning violences and society.
The average child watches 8,000 murders and 100,000 acts of violence on
television before finishing elementary school.

Honestly, what do we expect ? Peaceful nations where random act kindness is
a rule 🙂
OR something like this….
“A female in the United States is three times more likely to be murdered
than a female in Canada, five times more likely to be murdered than a female
in Germany, and eight times more likely to be murdered than a female in
England and Wales. The U.S. female homicide victimization rate is five times
that of all the other high-income countries combined. The firearm homicide
rate for U.S. females is 11 times higher than that in the other high-income
countries.
Shit I just shoot my wife !! Have to run !!
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —– From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

“hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying to
bring this back on-topic.)”

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing
Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that
playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill
games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 12:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

others I know to play with/against. (I was practicing my French while
playing Men of Valor- a ‘Nam-based fps game- last night, with someone
speaking French while playing in Milan, Italy. That’s pretty cool.)
Let me know.
Didn’t Tim Leary see virtual reality/online gaming as the “next step”
in

hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying to
bring this back on-topic.)
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

> Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering all
the
> dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget
the
> video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
reflexes..)….

> ah
> yes, back in MY day……
> Lol
> Kirk
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>
> I love these games.
> Darn it, am I going to suddenly wake up a killer now?
> Egad, I’m doomed…errr, no, that’s not right, haven’t played the new
> Doom
> yet, so I’m not actually doomed, not yet, but I do have a Halo, or at
> least
> rented Halo 2 not so long ago and had a ball with it.
> Blaming videogames for social and youth violence isn’t any more valid
(in

> my
>
> opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
>     And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
> firearms,
>
> (in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
> year I
>
> entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
> brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
> which
>
> takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids > who
> weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
> firearms),
>
> and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
> today’s
> games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother > and
I
> got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
> experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in
> our
> house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
> ‘rents
> by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
> practice
>
> in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
> first day we ever fired a firearm.
>     I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on > foreign
> countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
> on
> MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today?
> (are
> kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>
>
>> “Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>> he said.
>>
>> Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
>> from
>> West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet
>>
>> Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
>> insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
>> published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
>> called
>> Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.
>>
>> After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
>> Grossman,
>> who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
>> investigate
>> the mass killing of children and others by children.
>>
>> He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
>> never
>> used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to >> trained
>> army
>> professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
>> who
>> shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
>> children
>> and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not fired
a
>> real
>> gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.
>>
>> Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
>> video
>> game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
>> increases
>> to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
>> Great
>> Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye >> type
>> targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
>> sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available
>> to
>> your kids, had a 90% kill rate.
>>
>> God blees
>>
>> F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from wired.com)
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
>>> ‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??
>>>
>>> Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
>>> problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
>>> up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
>>> that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
>>> times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
>>> sea…
>>>
>>> —
>>> ”
>>> …the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
>>> pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
>>> seizures, or other hazards that come with living
>>> underwater..”After three or four generations,
>>> inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
>>> live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
>>> by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
>>> floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
>>> engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
>>> normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
>>> 1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> “We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
>>> – A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
>>> be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
>>> hazy moon.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
>>> the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
>>> scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
>>> Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
>>> the birth of the solar system.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> “Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
>>> before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
>>> deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
>>> told everyone to run for their life and I started
>>> sprinting inland.”
>>> The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
>>> quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
>>> across Asia.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
>>> Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
>>> 37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
>>> percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
>>> results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
>>> Ball.
>>> To devise better systems for training physicians,
>>> Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
>>> movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
>>> the three groups can develop better tools.
>>> While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
>>> training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
>>> kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
>>> More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
>>> surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
>>> Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
>>> surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
>>> techniques to repair injuries.
>>> Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
>>> as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
>>> suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
>>> into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
>>> more than a decade.
>>> Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> he said.
>>> TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
>>> virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
>>> bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
>>> intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
>>> the other assessments they would be required to do in
>>> an actual battlefield.
>>> The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
>>> Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
>>> like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
>>> Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.
>>>
>>> One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
>>> Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
>>> biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
>>> skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
>>> calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
>>> the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
>>> had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
>>> order to make a balloon float through a mystical
>>> environment.
>>> Another product on display was a system developed by
>>> researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
>>> hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
>>> sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
>>> exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
>>> wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
>>> fist fires cannons.
>>> All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
>>> some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.
>>>
>>> “You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
>>> A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
>>> baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
>>> Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
>>> “These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
>>> the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
>>> up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
>>> Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
>>> Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
>>> like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
>>> walking by.”
>>> The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
>>> galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
>>> spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
>>> while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
>>> tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
>>> stars stabilize.
>>> Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
>>> to the Milky Way than previously discovered
>>> “newborns,” scientists can now use various
>>> Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
>>> Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
>>> them in detail.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject Getting ancient
Date: December 31, 2004 at 11:28:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you for your E-mail Vector I was just releasing my cave man anger 🙂
You are right I am getting older 🙂 even worst I am getting ancient…

I remember reading an ancient Grec philosopher complaining of the change
happening in the new generation and missing the good all time 🙂 I love
and use the I-ching ( the Book of Change )and they allways refers to an
ancient time when the world was perfect. Probably refering at more than
6.000 years BC when the first village where created around a wellspring.I
had the luck to live one year in the bush in Madagascar in small villages
like the ones described in the “book of change ”
. This was actualy the best year of my life.No tv , no radio, no news, no
noise, no shoes, no stress but a lot of friendship and laughter 🙂

Here some sentences from the I-Ching

About creativity :
Creativity comes from awakening and directing men’s higher natures, which
originate in the primal depths of the uni- verse and are appointed by
Heaven.

About perseverance
One should act in consonance with the way of heaven and earth, which is
enduring and eternal. The superior man perseveres long in his course, adapts
to the times, but remains firm in his direction and correct in his goals.

Advice ( are they talking about addiction and recovery !/? )
Great effort is required to arrest decay and restore vigor. One must
exercise proper deliberation, plan carefully before making a move, and be
alert in guarding against relapse following a renaissance.

Hermit
The hermit doesn’t sleep at night, in love with the blue of the vacant moon.
The cool of the breeze that rustles the trees rustles him too.
God Bless and a very happy new year !!
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence

Francis I love reading your messages and most of the time I don’t have
any kind of reply to what you say but I enjoy reading it. In this one
message I think I can offer you a simple answer that I’m sure your son
with his vibrating razor will agree with. Maybe your just getting
older, older not old! 🙂 If you ever had the chance to talk to your dad
when you were growing up I’m sure he would have had the same thoughts
about the age you were growing up in and how things had change.

I don’t think anyone knows where they’re going, we are always going
there faster and everything keeps getting worse. That’s the same as
it’s ever been and some of it worries me and makes me think there will
be no future world, but cellphones, wireless and vibrating appliances
have never been anything I have thought about. Didn’t we always have
those? 😉

Happy new year!

.:vector:.
— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

tribe type of man.
And I am discovering on my brand new ,already obsolete desktop
computer, that rich countries can now ,do micro surgical
bombing from
30.000 feets on civil populations.This world is going to fast for me
🙂
People work double time to buy speedy cars, fast micowave, wireless

phone that are suppose to save them time !! What’s the point of going

fast if we don’t know where we are going ?/! For me this is a
dis-ease,
and evil one because we don’t now we have it :-).
My son bought a hand razor with several blades like the old one he
had
from last year, but this one vibrate.. Everything have to vibrate
now,
the freaking materass, the beeper, the pager, the speakers, the
dildo
and the phone. Soon we will have freaking pans and pots that will
vibrate. I hopes I will be dead before I have to cook in the next
generation kitchen.!!
God Bless
Francis

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence

Francis, you make some very good points in that post. There have been

alot of cultural changes since the 50’s when TV got into households
everywhere. That has to be taken into consideration when looking at
this. Sure TV has made a difference in the violence quota but it’s
made
a difference in sex and drugs and everything else too. Mankind keeps
evolving faster and faster and I hope that as we evolve we learn how
to
get where we want to go without hurting each other. Randy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Belief Systems: The Path of Eboga – Att. Nick
Date: December 31, 2004 at 9:47:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick,

I think you are right about the TV trying to help me but not in the way you think J

So forgive me if I chose to stick to the path I am on. If I were to take your advice I would only have myself to blame.

You clearly do not subscribe to the view that life is for developing the soul through the experiences we have and need to resolve and understand. I do and this is fundamental to my experience.

I very much believe that when we clear the ego we move onwards spiritually and so I guess I would have to say that I find your views possibly dangerous as they discourage the kind of work that can bring results. If someone has the choice to do the work with a strong chance to move towards inner peace, is it right to encourage them to seek a simple answer that quite possibly will keep them in their shit for a lifetime? I say this because the simple spiritual answers didnt work for me or for many others. YET, the answers themselves are always simple. THAT is the point of simplicity I subscribe to and illustrates my point that: yes it is simple but yes it is not that simple. It actually doesnt matter what system you use as long as you get where you are goinga car, a plane, a train, a bicycle.

Where I disagree:

1. Whether you’re experiencing a lot of source, or not, you’ve no real way to know this, because an undifferentiated field can’t be known with the mind, there’s nothing to relate it to.

I think souls are spiritually differentiated and we experience the spiritual realms via our soul, i.e. NO MIND, as interconnected spiritual phenomena.

2. The only “spiritual helper” I’ve encountered on either iboga or ayahuasca is myself.

So is there any basis upon which we can discuss when our views appear to be so different? I guess we agree on some things:

1. “We are the source.”

Yes, if you consider what source has transformed into to be another form of source.

2. “Everything that can be related is relative.”

Yes, if by that you mean that everything is interconnected.

3. “With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.”

Conclusion: Perhaps we are talking about two ends of the same stick?

I have a hard time understanding why you have a problem with a healing system based on eboga that consists of understanding how the ego works and the spiritual happenings that take place on the way towards healing the soul and ego, IF, in the end it works and leads to a state of NO MIND as you call it. I find an understanding of the ego extremely useful as I can use that understanding to progress much more quickly and let go of what I used along the way.

It reminds me of the story of 2 Buddhist monks crossing a stream. A woman needed help and one of the monks carried her across. After walking some way the other who was irritated by this said: You are unclean. You touched that woman! He replied: I left that woman behind a long time ago but you are still carrying her.

Love & Light,

Lee

P.S. Thanks for the spiritual sojourn!

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

> If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
> what has derived
> from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.
>

With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

> I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
> spiritual and work to
> integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
> enourages ignorance of one
> or the other.
>

with love

Nick

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Merry ChristmasHappy American Technology Corp info
Date: December 31, 2004 at 7:34:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, president@bcmarijuanaparty.ca
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave,

You are entitled to do or say (or not) anything you like.Much of what you say I agree with, I don’t care for commercial stuff, advertising, SPAM, junk mail, knock-knock…

My intent with ATCO is to give people opportunity where there is none. There is absolutely nothing I can do to save the world from consumption and consumerism or anything else by not buying ATCO, it won’t change a thing, those things will all happen anyway if they are to happen, but I can do something by buying it. What I can do is provide opportunity, perhaps collectively we can do something major with this knowledge, perhaps someone with financial means like Marc Emory can fork over a million or two to buy ATCO stock, and in a few years, have enough for IBOGAINE CLINICAL TRIALS, or whatever. I have my own ideas with what I do I don’t care to discuss on a public list. It isn’t greed on my partI do however need to take care of myself and am disabled, I trade stocks, I looked for “THE BIG ONE” and I found ATCO and yes, I am certain.

ATCO is very likely to return hundreds to thousands of times its value. If you want or don’t want that is fine, but I really do mean, this is “THE BIG ONE”, the stock of the decade… I put a lot of time and effort to find this, this was years in the. If people need money, organizations need money, whatever they invest should be returned many times over (10, 100X 1000X… in time of course).

It already started to happen, I look at as an opportunity, a great opportunity for a person to get themselves together, maybe pay for medical care they need, maybe a car or house, put the kids through college, retire, do clinical trials on ibogaine, support the legalization of marijuana and other drugs with Billions of dollars from ATCO. I would love to see ATCO a cult stock, to fight the things that are wrong in the world. I see the good, a chance to make a different future for the world, or at least a much larger piece of the world that I can touch. The stock is real, the products are real, this isn’t a scam, the contracts are happening, I know all the details, no, nothing is going to go wrong… yes you can bet the farm on it – but it is your money so you need to read for yourself, atcsd.com is the company web site woodynorris.com is the founders site. Make no mistake, this is the stuff that can make dreams come true.

See press release below

Brett

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/041229/295055_1.html

American Technology Forecasts over $4 Million in Revenues for Quarter Ending December 31, 2004 Wednesday December 29, 8:30 am ET

Company Also Reports Record Revenue for Fiscal 2004

SAN DIEGO–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Dec. 29, 2004–American Technology Corporation (ATC) (Nasdaq:ATCO – News), an innovator of proprietary sound reproduction technologies, today forecast record quarterly revenues in excess of $4 million for the quarter ending December 31, 2004. The company also reported record revenues for its fiscal year 2004, ended September 30, 2004. Revenues for fiscal 2004 were $5.8 million compared to $1.3 million in fiscal 2003, an increase of 337%. The company’s Government/Force Protection Group and Business Group generated revenues of $4.8 million and $0.9 million, respectively, in the fiscal year.
ADVERTISEMENT

The company reported a gross profit of $2.3 million for the fiscal year compared to a gross loss of $0.2 million for fiscal 2003. The company also reported a net loss of $6 million for fiscal 2004 reduced from a net loss of $8.2 million in fiscal 2003. Net loss attributable to common stockholders after deducting non-cash dividends on preferred stock was $(0.37) per share compared to $(0.67) per share last fiscal year.
MANAGEMENT COMMENTARY
“In fiscal 2004 we established the markets and organizational foundation to position our proprietary sound reproduction technologies at the forefront of audio industry innovation with products primed to produce rapid revenue growth,” said Elwood G. Norris, chairman of American Technology Corporation. “Our LRAD(TM) devices are becoming The Sound of Force Protection(TM) for an increasing number of military, government and commercial applications. And, after several years of development, we believe our HSSŽ technology is ready to realize its commercial promise as the most revolutionary audio development since the invention of the loudspeaker.”
“This year, we augmented the ATC team, successfully introduced new products, focused our sales and marketing efforts, outsourced manufacturing to enable rapid response to anticipated volume orders, and achieved record revenues,” remarked Kalani Jones, president and COO of ATC. “We have made substantial progress on our digital signage business programs and we are pleased with the responses we are receiving from our HSS Gen III deliveries to digital signage customers in Asia, Europe and North America. As we have previously stated, the structure of the larger digital signage programs in which we are engaged are complex, involve several partners, and generally require in-depth trials through multiple test installations. With the digital signage market expected to grow to over $5 billion in the next three to four years, we believe HSS is well positioned to be the audio solution for a number of major near-term programs. The programs contemplated each have the potential to generate $1 – $14 million dollars in revenue to ATC over the next three to twenty-four months.”
Commenting on the increasing success of ATC’s proprietary LRAD devices, Carl Gruenler, vice president of ATC’s government and force protection systems, said, “This year, through intense marketing efforts, successful product deployments in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the expansion of our product line to address the challenge of protecting infrastructure, our LRAD made great progress in becoming The Sound of Force Protection(TM). LRAD systems are currently being deployed in maritime, checkpoint, vehicular, airborne, and integrated system applications by the U.S. Army (click http://www.atcsd.com/PressReleases/12_15_04A.html to read our December 15 press release announcing our $4.9 million U.S. Army order), U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, and other agencies for waterside force protection, area denial, crowd control, clearing buildings, and psychological ops missions. Operational feedback from deployment in Iraq and other parts of the world has been highly favorable. LRAD also supports applications for the Department of Homeland Security, law enforcement agencies and customers who need to protect critical high-value infrastructure such as buildings, bridges, tunnels, dams, power plants, pipelines, airports, seaports, communications towers, and oil platforms.”
Gruenler continued, “We believe we are becoming the pre-eminent acoustic provider for force and commercial asset protection, and next generation intelligibility sound systems by providing governments, agencies, and companies with our LRAD, NeoPlanarŽ, and SoundCluster(TM) technologies. Based on market response, product acceptance, and increasing business opportunities, we expect continued growth in fiscal 2005. Our early research indicates a global market potential of well over $1 billion for hailing and warning systems, acoustic non-lethal weapons capabilities, indoor and outdoor public address/emergency response systems and custom engineered sound solutions for acoustic challenges for both government and industry, both at home and abroad. We intend to be a major force in these emerging markets this year and for years to come.”
Commenting on ATC’s financial resources, Kalani Jones said, “The $25 million committed equity financing facility (CEFF) from Kingsbridge Capital announced December 15 (click http://www.atcsd.com/PressReleases/12_15_04B.html for the release), and the recent closing of a $2 million two-year note financing, provide ATC the financial flexibility to accept and fill further expected large military and commercial LRAD orders.”
Jones concluded, “We are very excited about our business and technology prospects in the coming year. In fiscal 2005, we will continue to build on the foundation of 2004 with our aggressive strategy of Shaping the Future of SoundŽ.”
HIGHLIGHTS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS FOR FISCAL AND CALENDAR 2004
• Announced Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) is becoming increasingly sought after by military and government agencies for a range of applications and missions because of its ability to effectively communicate over long distances, influence behavior and determine intent.
• Expanded ATC Government Group staff to represent our products directly to the market rather than through licensing and reseller agreements.
• Awarded $1.1 million contract to deliver LRADs(TM) to U.S. Marine Corps Units for missions in and around Fallujah, Iraq.
• Promoted Kalani Jones to president.
• Completed and delivered NeoPlanarŽ speakers for a major Las Vegas venue.
• Awarded contract to deliver LRAD devices to a U.S. Army Stryker unit for use in missions in and around Mosul, Iraq.
• Awarded three contracts to deliver LRAD devices to the U.S. Navy 5th Fleet for use in and around the Basra, Iraq fueling terminal.
• Completed and delivered LRAD remotely operated pan/tilt units with integrated camera to Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane for the warship integrated force protection system.
• Awarded contract for a prototype aircraft carrier flight deck speaker system (SoundCluster) for the USS Stennis. SoundCluster is being evaluated by the U.S. Navy to be a permanent replacement for their aging 5MC flight deck sound system.
• Completed key NeoPlanarŽ projects on the shipyard waterfront for the Supervisor of Shipbuilding, Bath, Maine, and inside the new construction aircraft hangar at Naval Air Station Brunswick, Maine for the Naval Facilities Command.
• Launched a Government Group initiative to explore new product concepts and market opportunities.
• Showcased HSS at Wired Nextfest.2004.
• Held successful showing of HSS at InfoComm2004, the largest professional audio/visual trade show in the U.S.
• Announced manufacturing partner, Pemstar Inc.
• Hired Michael A. Russell as chief financial officer.
• Showcased HSS-enabled displays at the Democratic and Republican National Conventions.
• Initiated worldwide deliveries of Pemstar-manufactured HSS Gen III devices.
• Showcased HSS in digital signage applications at the initial Digital Retailing Expo Trade Show and Executive Summit.
• Awarded first major commercial LRAD contract by a well-known maritime industry company.
• Continued strong investment in strategic product development with a 20% increase in research and development expenditures to $3 million.
• Announced record fiscal 2004 revenues.
• Secured $25 million financing commitment from Kingsbridge Capital.
• Closed $2 million two-year note financing.
• Announced $4.9 million LRAD order from the U.S. Army
About American Technology Corporation
American Technology Corporation is Shaping the Future of SoundŽ by developing, manufacturing and globally distributing its proprietary sound technologies and products which include: the award-winning HSSŽ (HyperSonicŽ Sound technology); LRAD(TM) (Long Range Acoustic Device); NeoPlanarŽ planar magnetic technology and others. The Company is establishing a strong portfolio of patents, trademarks, and intellectual property including over 160 U.S. and foreign patents and patent filings to date. For more information on the company and its technologies and products please visit our web site at www.atcsd.com.
About Non-Executive Compensation
On December 22, 2004, we granted inducement stock options to certain of our new employees. These options were granted without stockholder approval to 6 new non-executive employees as an inducement material to the individuals’ entering into employment with our company, and the issuances were approved by our Compensation Committee pursuant to NASDAQ Marketplace Rule 4350(i)(1)(A)(iv). The options are exercisable for an aggregate of 76,500 shares of common stock with an exercise price of $10.06 per share. Each option has a five year term and, in general, vests 25% on the first anniversary of the grant date and then quarterly thereafter for the next 12 quarters, subject to continued employment and other conditions.
Safe Harbor statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995: Except for historical information contained herein, the matters discussed are forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act. You should not place undue reliance on these statements. We base these statements on particular assumptions that we have made in light of our industry experience, the stage of product and market development as well as our perception of historical trends, current market conditions, current economic data, expected future developments and other factors that we believe are appropriate under the circumstances. These statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those suggested in the forward-looking statements, including but not limited to changes in the sound reproduction industry, the need for market acceptance of our sound reproduction technologies, entry of competitors in the sound reproduction market, the possibility our intellectual property protections will not prevent others from marketing products similar to or competitive with our products, our ability to develop future products which maintain a competitive advantage over competing products, pricing pressures, technology shifts, potential technical or manufacturing difficulties that could delay products, possible government regulations, warranty or other claims, the outcome of pending or future litigation, general economic and political factors which influence buying decisions, and other risks identified and discussed in the our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These forward-looking statements are based on information and management’s expectations as of the date hereof. Future results may differ materially from our current expectations. American Technology Corporation disclaims any intent or obligation to update those forward-looking statements, except as otherwise specifically stated.
AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION
Condensed Statements of Operations
(000’s omitted except per share amounts)

Year Ended Sept. 30,
2004 2003
—- —-
Total revenues $5,753 $1,315
Cost of revenues 3,470 1,544
Gross profit (loss) 2,283 (229)

Operating expenses:
Selling, general and administrative 5,310 4,864
Research and development 2,989 2,493
Other – (25)
Total operating expenses 8,299 7,332

Loss from operations (6,016) (7,561)

Other income (expense):
Interest income 58 23
Interest expense (3) (687)
Other – (2)
Total other income (expense) 55 (666)

Net loss (5,960) (8,227)
Dividend requirements on convertible
preferred stock 1,365 2,409
Net loss available to common stockholders $(7,325) $(10,636)
Net loss per share of common stock – basic
and diluted $(0.37) $(0.67)
Average weighted number of common shares
outstanding 19,603,265 15,857,569

AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION
Condensed Balance Sheets
(000’s omitted except per share amounts)

Sept. 30,
2004 2003
—- —-
ASSETS
Current Assets:
Cash $4,179 $9,850
Accounts Receivable 927 184
Inventories 651 409
Prepaid expenses and other 156 34
Total current assets 5,913 10,477
Equipment, net 453 200
Patents, net 1,279 1,067
Total assets $7,645 $11,744

LIABILITIES AND STOCKHOLDERS’ EQUITY
Current Liabilities:
Accounts payable $1,300 $604
Accrued liabilities 1,129 1,379
Capital lease short-term portion 11 10
Total current liabilities 2,440 1,993
Long-Term Liabilities 12 23
Stockholders’ equity 5,193 9,728
Total liabilities and stockholders’ equity $7,645 $11,744

Contact:
American Technology Corporation
Investor relations:
Robert Putnam, 858-679-3168
robert@atcsd.com
or
Media inquiries:
Don Mathias, 949-855-4520
dwmath@aol.com

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
General Electric builds nuclear weapons and toasters, among many other
things.

I don’t knowingly buy General Electric Products, and would never invest
in their stock.

If I don’t speak my truth, then, what is truth?

something to hide under the covers?

like some gilded phallic rod? stroke-able only in private?

something to be ashamed of… something to be afraid of?

or something the agenda wants to shove under the carpet?

I’m so excited to be bombarded by targeted sound enticing me to
consume, more.

Walking by a soda machine and having fizzing soda and crackling ice
erupt from within my head. I just can’t fucking wait. There’s already a
storm brewing between my ears. Like I need more voices in my head.

And soon to come… iris recognition sensors that access my credit card
statements and customize in real-time a special commercial message for
me: “Buy some more audio equipment. Or a new FireWire Drive, you are
one block from the Apple store and RAM is on sale today. Or… “There’s
a great Taqueria right around the corner…” Like I need to be
encouraged to eat taco. Mas queso, por favor. Maybe if I blink 3 times
my order will be ready when I reach the counter? right down to the
salsa fresca and 16oz Horchata?

I’m so thrilled to know if I choose to voice my opinion in peaceful
protest that the goon squad can scatter my rights with blood curdling
sound that can destroy my hearing if I don’t submit to the sonic cattle
prod within seconds. Or perhaps at a slightly different frequency my
bowels will loosen beyond control and I’ll be running from the city
park in search of a roll of paper, thoughts of peace and freedom turned
fast into relief of abdominal cramps.

I just can’t fucking wait.

_.dh

On Sunday, December 26, 2004, at 02:38 PM, Brett Calabrese wrote:

>
> “Its really too bad these technologies you seek to profit from are
> being
> used as weapons.”
>
> Too bad so many people are confinced ATCO and its products are somehow
> evil. There is no weapon capability in Neoplanar or SFT – they are
> speakers, just flat, no magnet, no cone, no box, they don’t distort to
> max volume (ie all the way to 1000 watts/133db for Neo and is
> basically a big heavy 20K technology for 1K that is in a ribbon,
> NeoPlanar is most often used for wide area emergency notification.
> They use very very little power for the volume and space they put out,
> they aver very environmentally friendly and durable. HSS is a beam of
> sound, the only weapon it may be is in advertising, great for limiting
> sound to a specific area, it is not a weapon. LRAD is mostly a long
> range communication device, just a very clear long range speaker –
> that the sound “CARRIES” because it is focused and doesn’t bounce all
> over the place, not because it is particularly loud, voice is limited
> to 120db max. The military has plenty of ways to kill or harm people
> and few ways to avoid that, LRAD is one way. So far as I know the
> “warning tone” that could be but is NOT INTENDED TO BE and is NOT
> DESIGNED TO BE and is NOT APPROVED TO BE used as a weapon. Yes
> would/could put down a prison riot rather instantly and perhaps save
> lives, it could also be used in search and rescue because of its long
> range, it could be used (and is) to ward off small boats at long range
> so going to investigate doesn’t get one blown to bits, small LRADs (or
> Shorter range HIDA based acoustic devices) could have a
> pan/tilt/camera set-up for security – to prevent robberies or people
> getting in an area – it isn’t going ot instantly fry some kind brain
> cell or cause pain – it is just talking, voice, kike “HELLO, PLEASE
> LEAVE THE AREA” and if it is your area, your business, your security,
> wouldn’t it be nice to be able to give them a “warning tone”, or set
> off a high volume NeoPlanar alarm so they leave the area???
>
> Just about anything and everything including the “Good Book.Big Book”
> and the “Name of God” can be and is used for evil or good, sometimes
> both depending on which side you happen to be coming from. I do Reiki
> (healing with hands), a friend of my fiancee thinks it is “The work of
> the Devil”, it is matter of perspective. I don’t mean to rant,
> everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it is 1 capability of 1
> device that will only infrequently be used doesn’t make a companys
> technologies weapons. They are basically next generation/paradigm
> acoustics, it is like saying the guy who invented laser (HSS/LRAD is
> like sound laser) invented a weapon technology or weapon, that might
> be 1 use of the technology – LRAD is again, not intended as a weapon –
> meaning to harm anyone. I wish there was peace and love all over the
> place, but there isn’t. I don’t want to see more poor innocent people
> get hurt by REAL WEAPONS because they are in the wrong place at the
> wrong time and headed in the wrong direction OR it is really a car
> bomber headed in your direction, that is what LRAD does, communicate.
> Sorry, it isn’t like “gee shucks the company I invested in got the big
> military contract”… that is how a lot of progress in technology and
> medicine is made, it just is and I got in front of seeing ATCO, very
> diliberately.
>
> Brett
>
>
> D H wrote:
>
> Its really too bad these technologies you seek to profit from are being
> used as weapons.
>
> _.dh
>
> On Saturday, December 25, 2004, at 01:48 PM, Brett Calabrese wrote:
>
> > Seasons greetings,
> >
> > I wish all of you happy holidsys and looking forward to what the New
> > Year will bring. For me it will be many things, one of them is the
> > financial freedom (and many problems it solves) that I have waiting
> > for me. It is no accident, it was years and countless hours doing
> > research to find just the right company to invest in, a “Microsoft
> > of”… a company that owns a technology – there have been a number,
> > superconductor company American Superconductor (AMSC) is one, BLTI
> > (Biolase, dental lasers) is another – good company, early yet. But I
> > then found ATCO, American Technology Corp – this is a gift, from me
> > to you – an opportunity, for “informational purposes only”, do or
> > don’t do with it as you will. I am as certain as certain can be that
> > this company will be doing 10X, 100X and perhaps 1000X returns in
> 1-2,
> > 3-5 and 5-10 years respectively – or there abouts, maybe half as good
> > in twice as long, maybe twice as good in half as long – that I can’t
> > tell you. I can tell you it is my ticket out of here, if you are
> > interested and do stocks or maybe you just want to open that ibogaine
> > clinic or have a kid you want to put through college but don’t have
> > the money… well ATCO is for you. I have a neighbor that bought 45
> > shares – I told her to HOLD, as the price is going to go wild (better
> > than TASER/tasr). because the products (LRAD, HSS, Neoplanar, SFT
> > -particularly HSS) is going to have an effect on society world-wide
> > like say Coca-Cola or Microsoft – to be able to do things with sound
> > that have never been able to be done before, in fact deemed
> > impossible. ATCO is the next generation in acoustics, a new
> generation
> > of products, a new paradigm in sound (yadda, yadda, you get the
> point)
> > and it is very real, not vapor and not “we have this great tech but
> > need to develop it…”, it is here, it is now, they have products and
> > sales are growing 400% for FY 04 (not announced yet) and increasing
> on
> > only LRAD sales, HSS sales have not really started, there is some
> > NeoPlanar and engineered solutions – ie the 5MC system for Aircraft
> > Carrier flight decks.
> >
> > IMO, what is going to happen with the stock is going to be a number
> of
> > what is called “splits”, where because of growth, bigger company,
> > increased sales and price of the stock, the price goes up and up,
> > eventually they issue splits, some number of shares for each share
> you
> > own. Generally these are 2:1, 3:1 but eBay had a 10:1, it didn’t take
> > long for 10 times the number of shares to catch up to their original
> > price. This kind of thing doesn’t happen with every company, very,
> > very few but ATCO has all the pieces and it just started moving UP on
> > a new 4.9 million dollar LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device) sale to
> the
> > Military – it is one product has a non-lethal capability, it is a
> long
> > range megaphone of sorts, directed sound and very clear, something
> > like having head-phones on, by far most of the use is just
> > communicating, to talk to a crowd or small boat, or at a check-point,
> > to clear a bridge or building at range, it is NOT approved or
> > intended for use at ultra-high volumes at close range on people short
> > of being used along with lethal force in defense of warships, suicide
> > car bombers racing towards a check-point… to prevent the use of
> > lethal force. For instance in Iraq they shoot warning shots with
> guns,
> > if the car doesn’t stop they sometimes kill the occupants, sometimes
> > they are just innocent people that got scared and tried to run, maybe
> > they missed the check-point sign (ever miss a street sign? it
> > happens)… Standard speakers are only good 30 yards, LRAD is good
> and
> > clear over land to over 300 yards, 700 yards over water – it is not a
> > non-lethal device at those ranges, just a communication device, as a
> > non-lethal is within 100 yards. So, I guess I am looking at the
> > brighter side, it will prevent some harm, maybe someone thinks it is
> > Big Brotherish – well buy some stock and speak your mind at the
> > Shareholders meeting (and make money while you are at it), PETA did
> > that about 20 years ago with US Surgical, bought a block of stock so
> > they could have a bigger voice in animal experimentation at the
> > company.
> >
> > Anyway, for whatever reasons, you want or need a bunch of money, ATCO
> > is going to split and split and split, that 45 shares will be worth
> > hundreds and then thousands of shares, not unlike Microsoft but
> > starting much sooner – 2 weeks ago I made my last buy at 6.55, the
> > stock closed Thursday at 10.22, it is a technical break-out on anumbe
> > of factors, the large Army order and 25 million in financing.. If you
> > want in, my advice, buy all you can, don’t wait for the price to pull
> > back, if it does (pull back) buy more. Then sit and hold, be patient
> > and don’t mind the crazy movement, it is likely to have a lot of
> > swings in price – so if you go down a bit, don’t worry, it is more
> > likely than not you will have 10-100-1000X your money back, in time.
> > Don’t wait either, this stock has just attracted a lot of attention.
> >
> > Just to share my opportunity, I am not out to convince you of
> anything
> > and won’t gain, exept in the knowledge that someone changed thier
> > life… do your own research, it is your money – but to just say this
> > again, yes, I am as sure as sure can be, or I sure wouldn’t be
> posting
> > this.
> >
> > Brett
> >
> > Some info to read and good luck – IMO, opportunities like this, don’t
> > get better than this – it is as good as it gets, I just can’t not
> > share it with you. ATCO will likely be or be something close to the
> > stock of the decade – with just a little bit of luck. As usual, it is
> > your money do your own due diligence (dd), I know what the stock is
> > going to do but you need to know it for yourself and invest for
> > yourself, it is your money. ATCO has years of growth, so if you see a
> > quick double and want to cash out, you could have missed millions –
> > even on 100-couple hundred shares.
> >
> > LRAD is a long range acoustic device, a directional speaker, 15-30
> > degree beam
> >
> > HSS is Hypersonic Sound – getting hit with one is like hearing
> virtual
> > headphones, it is a marketers dream – there is an emerging
> advertising
> > product called “Digital Signage” – ATCO is working with SONY (who
> > wants a piece of ATCO) and others on new products. HSS can make a
> beam
> > or bubble, tube of sound, or a spot of sound off a back wall – like a
> > flashlight, you don’t see the beam, you don’t hear an HSS beam till
> it
> > hits something, range is 150 yards
> >
> > NeoPlanar and SFT are new flat ribbon speaker technologies, They are
> > using Neoplanar speakers or wide area, semi-directional sound,
> > emergency notification, hangar and flight decks.Neo’s and SFT can run
> > at full volume without distortion – ie Neo’s are capable of 133DB, a
> > 1000 watt speaker can run at 1000 watts, at 160 degrees C (not F!),
> > continuously. Basically 1/8th inch thick or less, no cone, no
> magnets,
> > no distortion…
> >
> > http://www.crane.navy.mil/supply/closed.htm
> >
> > The above link is at the Navy Warfare site, see “Acoustic Hailing
> > Device IROS” and N00164-04-R-8535, That is the IROS3 project, 147
> Navy
> > ships will be outfitted with 2 pan/tilt LRAD’s each (go on warships).
> > at about $70K each at , plus another 50 manual LRADS for delivery in
> > FY ’05 (aircraft carriers have a sister project/ ACSAS that uses 5
> > LRADs) that has yet announce the winner of the contract. There is
> only
> > 1 source for the “hailing devices”, American Technology Corp – they
> > are in fact ATC LRAD’s.
> >
> > New 4.9 million dollar ARMY order
> >
> > http://atcsd.com/PressReleases/12_15_04A.html
> >
> > Associated Press version, shortly after the stock took off for the
> 7’s
> >
> > http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041215/american_technology_army_1.html
> >
> > ATC reports on growing LRAD business
> >
> > http://www.atcsd.com/PressReleases/08_26_04.html
> >
> > And this, I don’t have a link off hand, it was posted on the SI board
> >
> > SNOWE APPLAUDS PROGRESS OF LONG RANGE ACOUSTIC DEVICE DEVELOPED BY
> > MAINE SMALL BUSINESS
> >
> > American Technology Corporation in Topsham Creates Communications
> > Equipment Used in Security Measures at Republican Convention, 2004
> > Olympics and Operations in Iraq
> > Contact: Antonia Ferrier/ (202) 224-5344
> > Friday, September 3, 2004
> >
> > WASHINGTON, D.C. Ō A strong supporter of the Long Range Acoustic
> > Device (LRAD) developed by American Technologies Corporation in
> > Topsham, U.S. Senator Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine) today hailed the
> > progress of the company as its acoustics and force protection
> > technology were employed by security personnel at the Republican
> > National Convention, the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens, and in ongoing
> > military operations in the Middle East as additional security
> measures
> > upon U.S. Naval ships.
> >
> > ĪI am so pleased with the success of the long range acoustic device
> > system developed by American Technologies – a Maine small business –
> > particularly as it aids our nationĖs military in their ongoing
> > operations. As American Technologies continues to redefine the
> > advanced acoustic technology market, I will continue to work with
> them
> > to secure future opportunities, both militarily and commercially,
> that
> > will further demonstrate their excellent work,Ķ said Snowe, who is
> > chair of the Senate Committee on Small Business.
> >
> > Long Range Acoustic Devices allow hailing distances that often exceed
> > 700 meters over water to approaching vessels. The devices transmit
> > concentrated audio waves to a specific target, thereby maintaining
> the
> > strength of the sound wave, rather than dissipating the sound waves
> > over a vast medium in all directions. LRADs fulfill the requirement
> of
> > the U.S. fleet to warn approaching vessels at significant ranges to
> > alter their suspected routes through speaking directly into a
> > microphone or by the use of prerecorded messages available in almost
> > any language.
> >
> > LRADs have been installed on Naval ships stationed in the Middle East
> > in response to the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole. Snowe, who
> > contacted the NavyĖs Chief of Naval Research Rear Admiral Jay Cohen
> in
> > January to convey her support for the technology being deployed with
> > military forces in Iraq, has been working with the Navy in outfitting
> > LRADs on the entire U.S. fleet, in addition to its current domestic
> > security uses as demonstrated at the Republican National Convention
> in
> > New York City this week. Additionally, the LRADs are currently
> > employed by some private ferry and cruise ship lines, including the
> > Queen Mary 2.
> >
> > ĪAs I have witnessed firsthand, the LRAD technology is an innovative
> > means to maintain civil order and control. From the Republican
> > Convention in New York to the Olympic Games in Athens, the security
> > teams for these national and international events were greatly
> > assisted by the LRAD system in managing and communicating with the
> > large-scale crowds. I commend the ingenuity of American Technologies
> > as they continue to expand the uses of the LRAD system to the
> > commercial market,Ķ continued Snowe.
> >
> > American Technologies Corporation, with facilities in both San Diego,
> > CA and Topsham, Maine, currently contracts its LRAD technology
> > specifically for government and military applications. The concept of
> > using this technology as a force protection tool was originally
> > conceived within the Advanced Technology directorate at Bath Iron
> > Works. Systems engineering, new product development and refinement of
> > current acoustic products are all completed at the Topsham facility.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
>
>
>

>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail – Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] early Dole/Nyswander paper
Date: December 31, 2004 at 2:16:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

More than twenty years ago when I was performing literature searches on
ibogaine and opioid and stimulant pharmacology to support proposed ibogaine patents
I obtained a copy of Heroin Addiction – A Metabolic Disease by Drs. Dole and
Nyswander, the developers of methadone maintenance therapy. The paper
remained in my files unvisited for twenty years when I rediscovered it and provided
it in a brochure presented at the American Association for the Treatment of
Opioid Dependence (AATOD) conference held in Washington, DC in April 2003
<http://www.doraweiner.org/contents.html>. Most of the papers except for the
Dole/Nyswander paper were presented in electronic form on the Dora Weiner Foundation
web page following the conference. There was no PDF file of the Dole paper
available and I did not have the knowledge or time to provide such then. It is
an amazingly original paper and encouraging to any methadone patient who
might read it and to any ibogaine researcher who wished to be accorded the respect
in the ibogaine world that Dole was accorded in the methadone world.

All that being said, Heroin Addiction – A Metabolic Disease is available as a
downloadable PDF file from http://www.doraweiner.org/dole_nyswander_1967.pdf

Howard

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence
Date: December 30, 2004 at 11:54:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Happy new year!

.:vector:.
— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

phone that are suppose to save them time !! What’s the point of going

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence

Francis, you make some very good points in that post. There have been

__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Empty sections on mindvox
Date: December 30, 2004 at 11:53:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick! Dogg she’s saying your not being egotistical enough. I
wouldn’t take that from anyone! Where is the media section? Where are
the life size Patrick posters? 😉 Your groupies are being let down, how
could you let that happen? Carla will buy 50 and wallpaper her house
with them.

🙂

.:vector:.

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

you still haven’t even filled
out the introduction or added one thing into the media
sections 😉

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Introduction and Media are empty 🙂

Reminding you 🙂

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence
Date: December 30, 2004 at 10:56:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi randy !
You are right : ” mankind keeps evolving faster and faster ” .Maybee is what’s bothered me.
I am here with my simple reptilian brain, seeking pleasure mind, wishing to get laid type of cave man brain, wondering how ro feed my tribe type of man.
And I am discovering on my brand new ,already obsolete desktop computer, that rich countries can now ,do micro surgical bombing from 30.000 feets on civil populations.This world is going to fast for me 🙂
People work double time to buy speedy cars, fast micowave, wireless phone that are suppose to save them time !! What’s the point of going fast if we don’t know where we are going ?/! For me this is a dis-ease, and evil one because we don’t now we have it :-).
My son bought a hand razor with several blades like the old one he had from last year, but this one vibrate.. Everything have to vibrate now, the freaking materass, the beeper, the pager, the speakers, the dildo and the phone. Soon we will have freaking pans and pots that will vibrate. I hopes I will be dead before I have to cook in the next generation kitchen.!!
God Bless
Francis

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence

Francis, you make some very good points in that post. There have been alot of cultural changes since the 50’s when TV got into households everywhere. That has to be taken into consideration when looking at this. Sure TV has made a difference in the violence quota but it’s made a difference in sex and drugs and everything else too. Mankind keeps evolving faster and faster and I hope that as we evolve we learn how to get where we want to go without hurting each other. Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence
Date: December 30, 2004 at 4:23:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & Hell – att Jasen
Date: December 30, 2004 at 4:13:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 26 December 2004 16:37
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven & Hell – att Jasen

Hi Nick,

I wrote a considered reply but it got gobbled up when
I hit send on my TV
internet connection back in Ireland. So I will keep
this one “brief.”

Hi Lee,

Aha! See even the telly is trying to help you out!

In the same way there is probably a unifying field
theory that
explains all phenomena in this dimension, I believe
there is also
a source from which all comes and through the power of
creation,
which you and jasen have alluded, much has been
created.

If we only look to the source we miss the nature of
what has derived
from the source, its meaning for us and its wonders.

With Osho we call it “no mind.” If you’ve got a lot of it mostly you’re
happy despite what happens and people are attracted to you.

I personally fully embrace the physical as well as the
spiritual and work to
integrate both. I dont subscribe to a view that
enourages ignorance of one
or the other.

I have a question for you:

Who or what for you are the spiritual helpers who work
through the eboga
spirit and bring so much healing to so many? Should
they be ignored or is
a certain amount of gratiude in order?

with love

Nick

A Happy New Year to you

Lee

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 20 December 2004 17:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] belief systems: Heaven &
Hell – att Jasen

Hi Jasen,

Forgive me for saying this (100% respect intended)
but I am sorry, I dont
think it is that simple.

Lee,

The truth is very simple when it hits. It is
insanely simple. I was in the
Humaniversity in Holland, very spaced out on the AUM

=====
http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

___________________________________________________________
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/]=———————————————————————=[
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/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] the Sound of Love
Date: December 30, 2004 at 2:32:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

kinda spooky, too.

On Thursday, December 30, 2004, at 12:39 AM, knowone knowwhere wrote:

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Out of subject TV and violence
Date: December 30, 2004 at 12:50:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy !!
I absolutly agree man. I spent many years in Swiss and in each household they have weapons, assault weapons.
The crime rate is very low. The cultural background is very different there. and you right, they have a good medical care, and the community is taking care of the weak and poor.That make a big difference.Regarding pot :the past few years, you could grow your own pot , sell or smoke it.
They changed the law this year;

<snip>An important factor influencing the changing position was a paper of the Swiss Teachers Association. They warned that the situation in the schools had changed dramatically due to the increasing marihuana smoking of the students. Teaching became increasingly more difficult because of behaviour problems. This Teachers Association, which some years before had welcomed the proposal for the new law, have now realised the sorrowing consequences of false tolerance and warned that schools are not detoxification and recovery facilities for dizzy students.<snip>

Heroin Assisted Treatment (HAT) is still going on in Switzerland with about 1200 addicts in these, mostly, lifelong programs. The number of patients has stabilised. The average age of the patients involved is 38.5; the oldest patient is 55 years old.
There are facilities for heroin assisted treatment in 6 cities all over the country. Additionally 18 000 addicts are in methadone programs.
The program is working with very good results.

Regarding TV and violence :a picture is worth a1000….

The crime rate start to kick about 10 to fifteen years after the introduction of TV . In the States, in Canada and in South Africa.Not immediatly….
Now for the medical views on TV and violence :

JAMA, June 10, 1992–Vol 267, No. 22
http://www.cursor.org/stories/television_and_violence.htm
God Bless
francis

Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!

Preston, I’m glad you brought that up about South Africa because I was reading that report and thought the same thing. They didn’t allow TV or a lot of stuff until 75 including voting and a reasonable way of life. Does anyone really think that the South African government really cared how many murders happened to innocent black people there? As for Canada having guns around the household with less violent crime that’s easy. They can smoke pot when they want to, have better medical care and the junkies can get Ibogaine when they need it and are smart enough to find it. What have they got to be pissed off about? I’ve got guns and I haven’t shot anybody for well over a week now. HeHe Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] guns/violence in Canada
Date: December 30, 2004 at 11:13:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only ‘legal’ guns in Canada are licensed hunting
rifles (usually in rural areas), and those on the hips
of police officers. Concealed weapons are strictly
not permitted, but it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
There are shootings here too, just not on so massive
of a scale as in the US. I believe this might be a
population/numbers type of thing, coupled with the
fact that personal handguns are NOT legal in urban
areas. If they were- oh god, who knows what would be
going on.

In fact, there have been gruesome, weekly teenage male
stabbings here for months- think swarmings. And one
of the worst serial killers of all time is from the
west coast of Canada- Robert Picton. He murdered and
butchered many dozens of transient, unfortunate women,
and then fed them to his pet pig. Fucking sick
asshole.

Canada is NOT exempt from violence- we just have fewer
people and fewer guns, that’s all.

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail – Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Fundamentalism
Date: December 30, 2004 at 10:24:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list, I am sorry that I wrote what appears to be an applause for violence. People like me need to step back from the macho bullshit that we were brought up with and learn how to forgive ourselves and everyone else or nothing will ever change. That is not to say that I can’t stand up for what I think is right, I would just like to be able to do it without being such a red neck about it. Once again I apologies for my thoughtless ramblings. I’m still learning. Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 30, 2004 at 9:54:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That
make us different but not enemies .<

Yep, fully agreed. (Wish the prohibitionist minded folk and warmongering folk would understand that, that in the case of prohibitionism, I don’t descriminate against folk for NOT using drugs, so why should they descriminate against me for using drugs?)
And while I enjoy firing firearms, I don’t own one and don’t plan on owning one. I don’t like violence and am a self-described peaceknick- other than for my love of action flicks (movies) and action videogames. I’ve always figured the cyber/imaginary violence is much more of a valve for me than actual, real violence is and could be, in that while giving in to violent tendencies is cathartic in the short term, it usually, in my own experience, leads to further troubles and turmoils, so I do my best to avoid it in every real life situation possible, as well as promote a peaceful outlook on things in my writing.

They have to distille fear in our veins and
heart, that the game.<

I fully agree here, I think. I just think there are a variety of ways they do so, and in turn that no one has power over how I react- IF I REMEMBER THAT! Of course, most people are laboring under the brainwashing they’ve endured since birth and so are unable to see things as clearly as those of us who’ve tried illegal drugs say, so they are not as able to seperate reality from propaganda and lies say and are more susceptible to the manipulations than I am or you are for instance. Therefore “they” are more easily able to do the above, to instill fear in our veins and hearts.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!

You wrote : as a matter of fact, I tend to believe that fundamentalism
(religious,
prohibitionist, etc, etc.) of any kind causes one heck of a lot more
violence that do any videogames every have, can or will.

I agree with you on this one 🙂
Because one more time is to judge people as our enemies, so I give up TV and
I never played
Violent videogame. You like to play videogame, I don’t. You like TV, I hate
it, you like guns, I never had one, You like big cities, I like small cities
,but I like what you write on your site regarding the war on drugs. That
make us different but not enemies .
I will never agree on violence on TV because I hate violence personaly, and
I hate when medias try to manipulate me, to deshumanize me. Is that the
world ? and to divide us over and over again. So in theirs shitty movies the
bad is always the guy from the minoritie or the ugly one or eventualy the
handicapped one .( biggest minoritie in this country, mostly playing the bad
part in Hollywood movies ). They have to distille fear in our veins and
heart, that the game.
What do you think ?
Peace and Love and God bless

as a matter of fact, I tend to believe that fundamentalism (religious,
prohibitionist, etc, etc.) of any kind causes one heck of a lot more
violence that do any videogames every have, can or will.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!

> >Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon
S.
> Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes > in
> three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
> compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
> Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant being
> that
> the South African government did not permit television broadcasting
until
> 1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. [and
> Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
> television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent
during
> the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South
> Africa,
> by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.<
>
> To which I reply, with all the love I can send, I swear- are you really
> going to use this to bolster some kind of argument that tv causes
violence
> using South Africa’s banning of tv “until 1975” and their subsequent
“low”
> white violence rates? LOL! That is one of the funniest things I’ve read
in
> a while.
>    I never thought South Africa’s apartied policies could be considered
> funny in any way, but this “study” has certainly come very, very close
to
> making South Africa’s apartied funny, in that I want to know: if
Apartied
> is considered “violence,” and I myself do consider it so, and if tv was
> banned there, why the apartied?
>    Better, I want to know if the study’s authors released this with a
> straight face.
> ;-))
>    Also, I did see just tonight as a matter of fact, something on
History
> Channel about the fact that during the Korean war military researchers
> decided that not enough US troops were “shooting to kill,” and that was
> because they were being trained on paper targets instead of life-like
> dummies that looked more human. With that in mind, I could see how
playing
> videogames where we shoot life-like people could be incorporated into
that
> same theory, that by training to do so it might increase shoot-to-kill
> rates in real battle. But I still doubt that it’s the videogames making
> kids violent, or that kids are more violent today than in days or yore.
> There are all sorts of horror stories, not to mention all out wars, too
> many of both throughout history for me to believe it. Sorry.
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is > often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> —– Original Message —– > From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
>
>
>> Hi Preston !
>> You ask a very pertinent question :
>> < are
>> kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?) and how
>> media
>> and video games can influence our society regarding violence
>> IMO yes ,the facts :
>> .Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is a retired psychiartrist from West Point, >> and
>> he
>> spend most of his life studing the psycology behind the killing.
>> http://www.killology.com/
>> The military during the first war discover that only about 15 % where
>> actualy using their arms with intention to kill. It’s in fact very
>> difficult
>> to take one human being life, at least it was. During the second war
>> about
>> 44 % where using their weapons with the intention to kill. During the
>> Irak
>> war of 1991 , 90 % of the soldiers where using theirs weapons to kill.
>> That
>> the infortunate progression.
>>
>> Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon
S.
>> Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes
in
>> three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
>> compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
>> Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant >> being
>> that
>> the South African government did not permit television broadcasting
until
>> 1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. >> [and
>> Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
>> television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent
during
>> the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South
>> Africa,
>> by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.
>>
>>
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&db_id=cp104&r_n=sr234.104&sel=TOC_9090
>> You will find interesting results of several studies showing the
constant
>> relation between media conditioning violences and society.
>> The average child watches 8,000 murders and 100,000 acts of violence >> on
>> television before finishing elementary school.
>>
>> Honestly, what do we expect ? Peaceful nations where random act
kindness
>> is
>> a rule 🙂
>> OR something like this….
>> “A female in the United States is three times more likely to be
murdered
>> than a female in Canada, five times more likely to be murdered than a
>> female
>> in Germany, and eight times more likely to be murdered than a female >> in
>> England and Wales. The U.S. female homicide victimization rate is five
>> times
>> that of all the other high-income countries combined. The firearm
>> homicide
>> rate for U.S. females is 11 times higher than that in the other
>> high-income
>> countries.
>> Shit I just shoot my wife !! Have to run !!
>> God bless
>> Francis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> —– Original Message —– >> From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
>>
>>
>>> Dear Preston,
>>>
>>> “hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that
>>> we’re
>>> basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that >>> soon
>>> wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? >>> (Trying
>>> to
>>> bring this back on-topic.)”
>>>
>>>
>>> Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing
>> Quake,
>>> or the other click and kill games.
>>> Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that
>> playing
>>> this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that
you
>>> were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill
>> games.
>>>
>>> I don’t suppose Timothy mean this
>>>
>>> Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing
>>> the
>>> humanity.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> FakePlacebo
>>>
>>> —– Original Message —–
>>> From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
>>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:42 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still
alive??
>>>
>>>
>>> Gawd damn X boxes!!
>>> (mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)
>>>
>>> —–Original Message—–
>>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 12:15 p.m.
>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still
alive??
>>>
>>> LOL,
>>>     Do you play online DH?
>>>     If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and
I
>> need
>>>
>>> others I know to play with/against. (I was practicing my French while
>>> playing Men of Valor- a ‘Nam-based fps game- last night, with >>> someone
>>> speaking French while playing in Milan, Italy. That’s pretty cool.)
>>>     Let me know.
>>>     Didn’t Tim Leary see virtual reality/online gaming as the “next
>>> step”
>> in
>>>
>>> hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that
>>> we’re
>>> basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that >>> soon
>>> wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? >>> (Trying
>>> to
>>> bring this back on-topic.)
>>> ;-))
>>>
>>> Peace and love,
>>> Preston
>>>
>>> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
>>> mistaken for madness”
>>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>>>
>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>> Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>> Columnist New York Waste
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> —– Original Message —–
>>> From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
>>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still
alive??
>>>
>>>
>>> in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal
Tournament.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:
>>>
>>> > Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering
all
>> the
>>> > dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, >>> > forget
>> the
>>> > video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
>> reflexes..)….
>>>
>>> > ah
>>> > yes, back in MY day……
>>> > Lol
>>> > Kirk
>>> >
>>> > —–Original Message—–
>>> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
>>> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>>> >
>>> > I love these games.
>>> > Darn it, am I going to suddenly wake up a killer now?
>>> > Egad, I’m doomed…errr, no, that’s not right, haven’t played the
new
>>> > Doom
>>> > yet, so I’m not actually doomed, not yet, but I do have a Halo, or
at
>>> > least
>>> > rented Halo 2 not so long ago and had a ball with it.
>>> > Blaming videogames for social and youth violence isn’t any more
valid
>> (in
>>>
>>> > my
>>> >
>>> > opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
>>> >     And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
>>> > firearms,
>>> >
>>> > (in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and
only
>>> > year I
>>> >
>>> > entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both
my
>>> > brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy
scouts,
>>> > which
>>> >
>>> > takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids
>>> > who
>>> > weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
>>> > firearms),
>>> >
>>> > and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
>>> > today’s
>>> > games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother
>>> > and
>> I
>>> > got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited >>> > firearms
>>> > experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed
in
>>> > our
>>> > house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
>>> > ‘rents
>>> > by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
>>> > practice
>>> >
>>> > in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well
from
>> the
>>> > first day we ever fired a firearm.
>>> >     I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on
>>> > foreign
>>> > countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
>> bombs
>>> > on
>>> > MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies
today?
>>> > (are
>>> > kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)
>>> >
>>> > Peace and love,
>>> > Preston Peet
>>> >
>>> > “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>> often
>>> > mistaken for madness”
>>> > Richard Davenport-Hines
>>> >
>>> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>> > Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>> > Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>> > Columnist New York Waste
>>> > Etc.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > —– Original Message —–
>>> > From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
>>> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>> > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> “Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> >> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> >> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> >> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> >> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> >> he said.
>>> >>
>>> >> Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave
Grossman
>>> >> from
>>> >> West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet
>>> >>
>>> >> Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt.
Col.
>>> >> Dave
>>> >> Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the
clearest
>>> >> insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide®
has
>>> >> published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt.
Col.
>>> >> Dave
>>> >> Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent
argument
>>> >> called
>>> >> Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.
>>> >>
>>> >> After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
>>> >> Grossman,
>>> >> who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
>>> >> investigate
>>> >> the mass killing of children and others by children.
>>> >>
>>> >> He found out some startling things. First, that many of these
killers
>>> >> never
>>> >> used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to
>>> >> trained
>>> >> army
>>> >> professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year >>> >> old
>> boy
>>> >> who
>>> >> shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on >>> >> eight
>>> >> children
>>> >> and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not
fired
>> a
>>> >> real
>>> >> gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video
games.
>>> >>
>>> >> Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of
the
>>> >> video
>>> >> game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
>>> >> increases
>>> >> to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina
and
>>> >> Great
>>> >> Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye
>>> >> type
>>> >> targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
>>> >> sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
>> available
>>> >> to
>>> >> your kids, had a 90% kill rate.
>>> >>
>>> >> God blees
>>> >>
>>> >> F
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> —– Original Message —–
>>> >> From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
>>> >> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
>>> >> Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from
wired.com)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
>>> >>> ‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
>>> >>> problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
>>> >>> up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
>>> >>> that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
>>> >>> times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
>>> >>> sea…
>>> >>>
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> ”
>>> >>> …the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
>>> >>> pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
>>> >>> seizures, or other hazards that come with living
>>> >>> underwater..”After three or four generations,
>>> >>> inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
>>> >>> live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
>>> >>> by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
>>> >>> floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
>>> >>> engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
>>> >>> normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
>>> >>> 1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> —
>>> >>>
>>> >>> “We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
>>> >>> – A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
>>> >>> be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
>>> >>> hazy moon.
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> —
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
>>> >>> the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
>>> >>> scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
>>> >>> Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
>>> >>> the birth of the solar system.
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> “Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
>>> >>> before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
>>> >>> deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
>>> >>> told everyone to run for their life and I started
>>> >>> sprinting inland.”
>>> >>> The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
>>> >>> quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
>>> >>> across Asia.
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
>>> >>> Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
>>> >>> 37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
>>> >>> percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
>>> >>> results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
>>> >>> Ball.
>>> >>> To devise better systems for training physicians,
>>> >>> Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
>>> >>> movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
>>> >>> the three groups can develop better tools.
>>> >>> While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
>>> >>> training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
>>> >>> kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
>>> >>> More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
>>> >>> surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
>>> >>> Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
>>> >>> surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
>>> >>> techniques to repair injuries.
>>> >>> Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
>>> >>> as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
>>> >>> suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
>>> >>> into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
>>> >>> more than a decade.
>>> >>> Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> >>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> >>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> >>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> >>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> >>> he said.
>>> >>> TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
>>> >>> virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
>>> >>> bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
>>> >>> intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
>>> >>> the other assessments they would be required to do in
>>> >>> an actual battlefield.
>>> >>> The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
>>> >>> Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
>>> >>> like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
>>> >>> Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
>>> >>> Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
>>> >>> biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
>>> >>> skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
>>> >>> calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
>>> >>> the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
>>> >>> had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
>>> >>> order to make a balloon float through a mystical
>>> >>> environment.
>>> >>> Another product on display was a system developed by
>>> >>> researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
>>> >>> hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
>>> >>> sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
>>> >>> exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
>>> >>> wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
>>> >>> fist fires cannons.
>>> >>> All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
>>> >>> some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> “You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> —
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
>>> >>> A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
>>> >>> baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
>>> >>> Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
>>> >>> “These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
>>> >>> the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
>>> >>> up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
>>> >>> Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
>>> >>> Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
>>> >>> like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
>>> >>> walking by.”
>>> >>> The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
>>> >>> galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
>>> >>> spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
>>> >>> while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
>>> >>> tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
>>> >>> stars stabilize.
>>> >>> Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
>>> >>> to the Milky Way than previously discovered
>>> >>> “newborns,” scientists can now use various
>>> >>> Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
>>> >>> Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
>>> >>> them in detail.
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> —
>>> >>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
>>> >>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> >>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>>> >> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>
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>>> >
>>> > —
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>>> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>> > Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > —
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (on topic) How was it Julian?
Date: December 30, 2004 at 9:48:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian, I agree with you that Ibogaine can and will help people to grow spiritually, and it will probably help with all kinds of mental road blocks, so to speak. The overwhelming fact is that it interrupts addiction and that is what everyone is concentrating on, (the squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that). I’d like to see Ibogaine available to anyone who feels the need to expand and explore themselves. First we have to see that all the facts, ALL THE FACTS, come out about the therapeutic values of Ibogaine, and that it is in no shape or form a party drug. How many of us have to do the Ibogaine illegally and see huge improvements in our life for the powers that be to pay attention? Obviously not enough yet. So onward through the fog. I’m very happy for you that you finally got to do the Ibogaine. Did you have any hallucinations that you would care to share with us? I need the reminder of why I feel so different today. Ibogaine is a miracle drug. Randy

From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Donna (bup. and gear)
Date: December 30, 2004 at 9:44:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Donna, from what I know about buprenorphine, subutex does not have naloxone in it like the suboxone does. As far as I know, it is very hard to get subutex. They put the naloxone in the suboxone as (of course) a measure of control so that addicts can’t inject it. When taken under the tongue the naloxone doesn’t make it into the blood stream, but when taken in other ways the naloxone will cause you to go into withdrawals. If you are really getting a script for subutex then you don’t have to worry about the naloxone I don’t believe. As for using while on suboxone, there was a period of time where I did it so I can give you some first hand experience. If you don’t wait around 12 – 24 hours after you take the suboxone before you do dope then you won’t feel the dope because the bup. in your brain will block it. If you don’t wait 12 – 15 hours after doing dope to take your suboxone then you can go into withdrawals because when the bup. enters your brain and finds somebody else in it’s home it will rip the dope out of the receptor and send you into withdrawals. So: for my particular metabolism it was: At least 15 hours before you want to get high don’t do any bup. or you won’t feel it. Wait at least 12 hours after you get high before you do the bup or withdrawals may ruin your day. I imagine that this can change with different metabolisms and different kinds of dope (methadone lasts much longer in the body so the amount of time would be much longer) The reason I am telling you this is not because I am encouraging you to go get high. I just remembered when I first went on suboxone, no one would tell me the dangers of using while taking bup. It really pissed me off because I believe in giving people all the info and letting them make their own decisions. After I found all this out I asked my prescribing Dr. if all that was true and he actually told me he didn’t know!!! The Dr. I have now has told me that it is true, but it is such a new drug they don’t know everything about it yet. So, I encourage you to look it up all over the net, call pharmacies, and other Dr’s to get information because I know when I did that I got lots of different answers. It was incredible. Can you talk openly with your prescribing Dr? One nice thing about bup is the fact that it makes getting high such a pain in the ass so any tiny spark of desire to use generally goes away. Well, be careful and make sure to get info from a certified Dr. before you do anything just to make sure everything will be okay. (insert disclaimer here)
Good Luck    — On Mon 12/27, < AbbotAngel@aol.com > wrote:
From: [mailto: AbbotAngel@aol.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:34:20 EST
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Donna

HI
Thanks for getting back to me I used subutex before does the suboxone block effects of gear and do you know if you can take it with subutex????????????
love donna

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Fundamentalism
Date: December 30, 2004 at 5:45:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fundamentalist religions have caused violence all over the world. Who was shooting those DR’s and blowing up clinic’s in the US? Who fucked up Afghanistan or took down the World Trade Center for that matter. Why did all those people have to die in Ireland? Who’s next? Personally I’m prepared if it’s me. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Live without a sword and die whenever someone wants you to. Randy

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] the Sound of Love
Date: December 30, 2004 at 5:39:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The programme features the following wild creatures:

Bats; Albatrosses; Tungler frogs; Asian Lions;
Billygoats; Mute Swans; Elephants; Puerto Rican Tree
Frogs; Peacocks; Swallows; Beluga Whales; Capuchin
Birds; Blue Tits; Cats; Bees; Grey Lions; Toads; Satin
Bowerbirds; Grey Seals; Hammer Headed Fruit Bats;
Swallow Gulls and Elephant Seals

…. and the following humans:
Matt Thompson – a radio producer; Maxine Grisley – a
business woman; Jim Crumley – a nature writer; Tom
McGrath – a playwright.

The internationally reknowned sound artist Scanner has
composed an enchanting musical feature using the
extraordinary sounds of love to be found in nature.
The music and wildlife is interwoven with the voices
of four humans describing their own feelings about the
sounds of love.

Transmitted on 13th February 2002
BBC Radio Scotland
Produced by Amanda Hargreaves
Sound design & everything else Scanner

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 30, 2004 at 5:23:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Peet, Preston, Preston Peet:))
Date: December 30, 2004 at 4:57:40 AM EST
To: “Summary” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear preston,

Yes I agreed with you; computer games aren’t reason of violence. This is not my point.

I mentioned about visual pop culture. Always changing faces, shapes, etc.. and there is a TV or computer as a most important object of life.

Pop culture is originated legends. In the first contact with the pop culture; you think “yeah how nice, everything is new and bright. But when you go older with pop-culture; you understand that everything is same for thousands of years. This is normal. Every generation create their own popular culture or they think so… Behind the millions different colors of pop-culture there is just a few constant and they are never change.

(Did you heard about two books that wich is very important “morphology of legend” written by Viladimir Prop and “Principle of semiology” written by Ferdinand de Saussure)

But in the 21th. century popular culture is changing. It’s taking the place of understanding and emphaty. Killing languages of world and making them poor.

Do you want to live in a world that all around you is full of Coke, Mc Donalds, etc..

This system doesn’t link up to you “other people”.

“other peoples” are dying Mr. Peet. They are dying like flies.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 30, 2004 at 3:06:18 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here Here Mr Cool.
Love Jasen.

as a matter of fact, I tend to believe that fundamentalism (religious, prohibitionist, etc, etc.) of any kind causes one heck of a lot more violence that do any videogames every have, can or will.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT–Internet-telepathy?
Date: December 30, 2004 at 12:00:39 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe in it, serious 🙂
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT–Internet-telepathy?

Internet is the precursor to telepathy amongst people.
What do you all think about this?
I was taught Reiki, and one of the techniques is distance healing, where you
can send healing energies to people anywhere. Much like people gathering to
prayer for someones health etc.
We do that a lot on here… sending our healing thoughts to those in need.
It’s all energy.
Koik

—–Original Message—–
From: FakePlacebo [mailto:fakeplacebo@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 10:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering all the
dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget the
video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all reflexes..)….

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
today’s
games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother and I
got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in
our
house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
‘rents
by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
practice

in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from the
first day we ever fired a firearm.
I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on foreign
countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping bombs
on
MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today?
(are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

“Video games also have much to offer the military, said
Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
conference held in Marina del Rey.
“You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
he said.

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
Dave
Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col.
Dave
Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
called
Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.

After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
Grossman,
who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
investigate
the mass killing of children and others by children.

He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
never
used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to trained
army
professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old boy
who
shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
children
and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not fired a
real
gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.

Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
video
game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
increases
to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
Great
Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye type
targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games available
to
your kids, had a 90% kill rate.

God blees

—– Original Message —–
From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from wired.com)

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

—
”
…the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
seizures, or other hazards that come with living
underwater..”After three or four generations,
inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
—
—

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
the birth of the solar system.
—
—
“Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
told everyone to run for their life and I started
sprinting inland.”
The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
across Asia.
—
—
http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
Ball.
To devise better systems for training physicians,
Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
the three groups can develop better tools.
While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
techniques to repair injuries.
Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
more than a decade.
Video games also have much to offer the military, said
Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
conference held in Marina del Rey.
“You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
he said.
TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
the other assessments they would be required to do in
an actual battlefield.
The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.

One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
order to make a balloon float through a mystical
environment.
Another product on display was a system developed by
researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
fist fires cannons.
All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
“These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
walking by.”
The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
stars stabilize.
Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
to the Milky Way than previously discovered
“newborns,” scientists can now use various
Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
them in detail.
—
—
http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 29, 2004 at 11:59:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

as a matter of fact, I tend to believe that fundamentalism (religious,
prohibitionist, etc, etc.) of any kind causes one heck of a lot more
violence that do any videogames every have, can or will.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!

Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon
S.
Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes in
three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant being
that
the South African government did not permit television broadcasting
until
1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. [and
Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent
during
the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South
Africa,
by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.<

To which I reply, with all the love I can send, I swear- are you really
going to use this to bolster some kind of argument that tv causes
violence
using South Africa’s banning of tv “until 1975” and their subsequent
“low”
white violence rates? LOL! That is one of the funniest things I’ve read
in
a while.
I never thought South Africa’s apartied policies could be considered
funny in any way, but this “study” has certainly come very, very close
to
making South Africa’s apartied funny, in that I want to know: if
Apartied
is considered “violence,” and I myself do consider it so, and if tv was
banned there, why the apartied?
Better, I want to know if the study’s authors released this with a
straight face.
;-))
Also, I did see just tonight as a matter of fact, something on
History
Channel about the fact that during the Korean war military researchers
decided that not enough US troops were “shooting to kill,” and that was
because they were being trained on paper targets instead of life-like
dummies that looked more human. With that in mind, I could see how
playing
videogames where we shoot life-like people could be incorporated into
that
same theory, that by training to do so it might increase shoot-to-kill
rates in real battle. But I still doubt that it’s the videogames making
kids violent, or that kids are more violent today than in days or yore.
There are all sorts of horror stories, not to mention all out wars, too
many of both throughout history for me to believe it. Sorry.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Hi Preston !
You ask a very pertinent question :
< are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?) and how
media
and video games can influence our society regarding violence
IMO yes ,the facts :
.Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is a retired psychiartrist from West Point, and
he
spend most of his life studing the psycology behind the killing.
http://www.killology.com/
The military during the first war discover that only about 15 % where
actualy using their arms with intention to kill. It’s in fact very
difficult
to take one human being life, at least it was. During the second war
about
44 % where using their weapons with the intention to kill. During the
Irak
war of 1991 , 90 % of the soldiers where using theirs weapons to kill.
That
the infortunate progression.

Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon
S.
Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes
in
three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant being
that
the South African government did not permit television broadcasting
until
1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. [and
Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent
during
the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South
Africa,
by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&db_id=cp104&r_n=sr234.104&sel=TOC_9090
You will find interesting results of several studies showing the
constant
relation between media conditioning violences and society.
The average child watches 8,000 murders and 100,000 acts of violence on
television before finishing elementary school.

Honestly, what do we expect ? Peaceful nations where random act
kindness
is
a rule 🙂
OR something like this….
“A female in the United States is three times more likely to be
murdered
than a female in Canada, five times more likely to be murdered than a
female
in Germany, and eight times more likely to be murdered than a female in
England and Wales. The U.S. female homicide victimization rate is five
times
that of all the other high-income countries combined. The firearm
homicide
rate for U.S. females is 11 times higher than that in the other
high-income
countries.
Shit I just shoot my wife !! Have to run !!
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

“hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that
we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying
to
bring this back on-topic.)”

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing
Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that
playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that
you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill
games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing
the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and
I
need

hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that
we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying
to
bring this back on-topic.)
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal
Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering
all
the
dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget
the
video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
reflexes..)….

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and
only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both
my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy
scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids
who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
today’s
games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother
and
I
got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed
in
our
house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
‘rents
by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
practice

in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well
from
the
first day we ever fired a firearm.
I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on
foreign
countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
on
MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies
today?
(are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave
Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt.
Col.
Dave
Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the
clearest
insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide®
has
published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt.
Col.
Dave
Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent
argument
called
Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.

He found out some startling things. First, that many of these
killers
never
used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to
trained
army
professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
who
shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
children
and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not
fired
a
real
gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video
games.

Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of
the
video
game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
increases
to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina
and
Great
Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye
type
targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available
to
your kids, had a 90% kill rate.

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston (alienation)
Date: December 29, 2004 at 11:36:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston
I just cliked on reply on the subject was already Mr. Preston, I apologize
and I think that as a writer and an important contribuitor two the drug
war you desserve all my respect anyway

Now for the violence , You reconize and will agree with me that training on
shooting on human target increase
the results ( quantity and quality )

For the violence in South Africa, I will agree with you that was not the
perfect esample . In fact the apartheid run from
1948-1994 and it ‘s only after the introduction to TV ( 1975 ) that the
crimes rates explode. This is the only country that banned Tv for so long .
Is it a coincidence ? Maybe, maybe not . We have only this example at the
level of a nation., Japanese, Canadians and Swiss are watching TV with the
hight contents of violence and have a lower murder rates than US.
So TV is not the roots of violence . It can be one of the road of violence
but cultural beliefs or boundaries could make a difference.

I ‘ve seen an escalation in violence in the cheap, trashy, violent
production that we are watching on a daily base, and I ‘ve seen the same
escalation of violence in ours societies.( here and everywhere ) If it don’t
blead it don’t lead seem’s to be the moto of ours producers and pseudo
journalist working for corporate’s outlet medias. More blood, we want more
blood seem’s to be the cry of tthe viewers. The medias and the videogame
producers create a virtual world of revenge ( exception : Divine
Journey ).This create an image of reality completely deformed for our youth.
This world is not owned by ” Jerrys Springers and fat producers of Hollywood
” and I hopes that commun sense will prevail at the end . Just commun
sense…. if that all.
With love
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

and one last thing:

If you insist on calling me Mr., how ’bout, Mr. Cool, or Mr. Mr., or even,
Mr. Peet. Better just stick to Preston. Thanks.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Hi Preston !
You ask a very pertinent question :
< are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?) and how
media
and video games can influence our society regarding violence
IMO yes ,the facts :
.Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is a retired psychiartrist from West Point, and
he
spend most of his life studing the psycology behind the killing.
http://www.killology.com/
The military during the first war discover that only about 15 % where
actualy using their arms with intention to kill. It’s in fact very
difficult
to take one human being life, at least it was. During the second war
about
44 % where using their weapons with the intention to kill. During the
Irak
war of 1991 , 90 % of the soldiers where using theirs weapons to kill.
That
the infortunate progression.

Now , we have a study from University of Washington researcher Brandon
S.
Centerwall investigating the relation beetwen Tv violence and crimes in
three different population Canada, South Africa, United States :
compared white homicide rates for Canada, the United States, and South
Africa for the period 1945 to 1974, with the significant constant being
that
the South African government did not permit television broadcasting
until
1975. During this period, the … white homicide rate in the U. S. [and
Canada] increased by [over 90 percent, and] in South Africa, where
television was banned, the white homicide rate fell by 7.2 percent
during
the same period. However, following the introduction of TV in South
Africa,
by 1987, white homicides had increased by 130 percent.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&db_id=cp104&r_n=sr234.104&sel=TOC_9090
You will find interesting results of several studies showing the
constant
relation between media conditioning violences and society.
The average child watches 8,000 murders and 100,000 acts of violence on
television before finishing elementary school.

Honestly, what do we expect ? Peaceful nations where random act kindness
is
a rule 🙂
OR something like this….
“A female in the United States is three times more likely to be murdered
than a female in Canada, five times more likely to be murdered than a
female
in Germany, and eight times more likely to be murdered than a female in
England and Wales. The U.S. female homicide victimization rate is five
times
that of all the other high-income countries combined. The firearm
homicide
rate for U.S. females is 11 times higher than that in the other
high-income
countries.
Shit I just shoot my wife !! Have to run !!
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

“hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that
we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying
to
bring this back on-topic.)”

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing
Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that
playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that
you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill
games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing
the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that
we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying
to
bring this back on-topic.)
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering all
the
dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget
the
video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
reflexes..)….

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy
scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids
who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
today’s
games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother
and
I
got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed
in
our
house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
‘rents
by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
practice

in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
first day we ever fired a firearm.
I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on
foreign
countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
on
MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies
today?
(are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave
Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
Dave
Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the
clearest
insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt.
Col.
Dave
Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent
argument
called
Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.

He found out some startling things. First, that many of these
killers
never
used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to
trained
army
professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
who
shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
children
and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not
fired
a
real
gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.

Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
video
game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
increases
to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
Great
Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye
type
targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available
to
your kids, had a 90% kill rate.

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 29, 2004 at 10:33:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

as a matter of fact, I tend to believe that fundamentalism (religious, prohibitionist, etc, etc.) of any kind causes one heck of a lot more violence that do any videogames every have, can or will.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

> -=[/
>
>
>

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Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
Date: December 29, 2004 at 10:14:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and one last thing:

If you insist on calling me Mr., how ’bout, Mr. Cool, or Mr. Mr., or even, Mr. Peet. Better just stick to Preston. Thanks.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

> my
>
> opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
>     And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
> firearms,
>
> (in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
> year I
>
> entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
> brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
> which
>
> takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
> weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
> firearms),
>
> and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
> today’s
> games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother > and
I
> got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
> experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in
> our
> house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
> ‘rents
> by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
> practice
>
> in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
> first day we ever fired a firearm.
>     I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on foreign
> countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
> on
> MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today?
> (are
> kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>
>
>> “Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>> he said.
>>
>> Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
>> from
>> West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet
>>
>> Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
>> insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
>> published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
>> called
>> Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.
>>
>> After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
>> Grossman,
>> who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
>> investigate
>> the mass killing of children and others by children.
>>
>> He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
>> never
>> used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to trained
>> army
>> professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
>> who
>> shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
>> children
>> and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not fired
a
>> real
>> gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.
>>
>> Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
>> video
>> game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
>> increases
>> to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
>> Great
>> Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye type
>> targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
>> sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available
>> to
>> your kids, had a 90% kill rate.
>>
>> God blees
>>
>> F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from wired.com)
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
>>> ‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??
>>>
>>> Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
>>> problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
>>> up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
>>> that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
>>> times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
>>> sea…
>>>
>>> —
>>> ”
>>> …the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
>>> pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
>>> seizures, or other hazards that come with living
>>> underwater..”After three or four generations,
>>> inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
>>> live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
>>> by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
>>> floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
>>> engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
>>> normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
>>> 1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> “We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
>>> – A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
>>> be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
>>> hazy moon.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
>>> the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
>>> scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
>>> Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
>>> the birth of the solar system.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> “Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
>>> before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
>>> deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
>>> told everyone to run for their life and I started
>>> sprinting inland.”
>>> The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
>>> quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
>>> across Asia.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
>>> Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
>>> 37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
>>> percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
>>> results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
>>> Ball.
>>> To devise better systems for training physicians,
>>> Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
>>> movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
>>> the three groups can develop better tools.
>>> While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
>>> training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
>>> kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
>>> More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
>>> surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
>>> Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
>>> surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
>>> techniques to repair injuries.
>>> Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
>>> as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
>>> suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
>>> into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
>>> more than a decade.
>>> Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> he said.
>>> TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
>>> virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
>>> bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
>>> intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
>>> the other assessments they would be required to do in
>>> an actual battlefield.
>>> The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
>>> Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
>>> like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
>>> Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.
>>>
>>> One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
>>> Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
>>> biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
>>> skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
>>> calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
>>> the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
>>> had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
>>> order to make a balloon float through a mystical
>>> environment.
>>> Another product on display was a system developed by
>>> researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
>>> hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
>>> sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
>>> exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
>>> wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
>>> fist fires cannons.
>>> All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
>>> some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.
>>>
>>> “You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
>>> A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
>>> baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
>>> Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
>>> “These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
>>> the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
>>> up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
>>> Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
>>> Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
>>> like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
>>> walking by.”
>>> The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
>>> galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
>>> spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
>>> while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
>>> tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
>>> stars stabilize.
>>> Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
>>> to the Milky Way than previously discovered
>>> “newborns,” scientists can now use various
>>> Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
>>> Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
>>> them in detail.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
/ ]=———————————————————————
> =[\
>>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>> [%]
>>>
>>
> \]=——————————————————————–
> -=[/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>> [%]
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
/ ]=———————————————————————
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=——————————————————————–
> -=[/
>
>
>
> —
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004
>
>
> —
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004
>
>
>
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]=———————————————————————
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (still ot) Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
Date: December 29, 2004 at 10:12:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh, and did you see Bowling for Columbine? Michael Moore’s movie, in which he showed how Canadians watch the same tv and play the same videogames and have guns in all sorts of homes, yet have much lower rates of violence than do we? So why are we USers different?
And what exactly does this have to do with the original assertions that videogames cause violence?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

> my
>
> opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
>     And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
> firearms,
>
> (in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
> year I
>
> entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
> brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
> which
>
> takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
> weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
> firearms),
>
> and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
> today’s
> games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother > and
I
> got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
> experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in
> our
> house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
> ‘rents
> by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
> practice
>
> in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
> first day we ever fired a firearm.
>     I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on foreign
> countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
> on
> MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today?
> (are
> kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>
>
>> “Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>> he said.
>>
>> Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
>> from
>> West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet
>>
>> Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
>> insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
>> published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
>> called
>> Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.
>>
>> After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
>> Grossman,
>> who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
>> investigate
>> the mass killing of children and others by children.
>>
>> He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
>> never
>> used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to trained
>> army
>> professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
>> who
>> shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
>> children
>> and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not fired
a
>> real
>> gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.
>>
>> Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
>> video
>> game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
>> increases
>> to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
>> Great
>> Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye type
>> targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
>> sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available
>> to
>> your kids, had a 90% kill rate.
>>
>> God blees
>>
>> F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from wired.com)
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
>>> ‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??
>>>
>>> Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
>>> problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
>>> up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
>>> that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
>>> times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
>>> sea…
>>>
>>> —
>>> ”
>>> …the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
>>> pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
>>> seizures, or other hazards that come with living
>>> underwater..”After three or four generations,
>>> inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
>>> live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
>>> by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
>>> floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
>>> engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
>>> normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
>>> 1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> “We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
>>> – A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
>>> be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
>>> hazy moon.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
>>> the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
>>> scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
>>> Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
>>> the birth of the solar system.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> “Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
>>> before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
>>> deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
>>> told everyone to run for their life and I started
>>> sprinting inland.”
>>> The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
>>> quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
>>> across Asia.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
>>> Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
>>> 37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
>>> percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
>>> results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
>>> Ball.
>>> To devise better systems for training physicians,
>>> Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
>>> movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
>>> the three groups can develop better tools.
>>> While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
>>> training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
>>> kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
>>> More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
>>> surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
>>> Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
>>> surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
>>> techniques to repair injuries.
>>> Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
>>> as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
>>> suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
>>> into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
>>> more than a decade.
>>> Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> he said.
>>> TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
>>> virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
>>> bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
>>> intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
>>> the other assessments they would be required to do in
>>> an actual battlefield.
>>> The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
>>> Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
>>> like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
>>> Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.
>>>
>>> One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
>>> Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
>>> biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
>>> skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
>>> calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
>>> the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
>>> had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
>>> order to make a balloon float through a mystical
>>> environment.
>>> Another product on display was a system developed by
>>> researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
>>> hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
>>> sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
>>> exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
>>> wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
>>> fist fires cannons.
>>> All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
>>> some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.
>>>
>>> “You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
>>> A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
>>> baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
>>> Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
>>> “These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
>>> the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
>>> up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
>>> Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
>>> Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
>>> like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
>>> walking by.”
>>> The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
>>> galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
>>> spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
>>> while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
>>> tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
>>> stars stabilize.
>>> Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
>>> to the Milky Way than previously discovered
>>> “newborns,” scientists can now use various
>>> Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
>>> Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
>>> them in detail.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
/ ]=———————————————————————
> =[\
>>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>> [%]
>>>
>>
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> -=[/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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>> [%]
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>>
>
>
>
>
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> [%]
>
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>
>
>
> —
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004
>
>
> —
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004
>
>
>
>
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]=———————————————————————
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: south african white “non” violence- LOL!!!!
Date: December 29, 2004 at 10:10:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

> my
>
> opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
>     And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
> firearms,
>
> (in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
> year I
>
> entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
> brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
> which
>
> takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
> weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
> firearms),
>
> and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
> today’s
> games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother > and
I
> got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
> experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in
> our
> house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
> ‘rents
> by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
> practice
>
> in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
> first day we ever fired a firearm.
>     I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on foreign
> countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
> on
> MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today?
> (are
> kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>
>
>> “Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>> he said.
>>
>> Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
>> from
>> West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet
>>
>> Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
>> insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
>> published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col.
>> Dave
>> Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
>> called
>> Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.
>>
>> After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
>> Grossman,
>> who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
>> investigate
>> the mass killing of children and others by children.
>>
>> He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
>> never
>> used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to trained
>> army
>> professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
>> who
>> shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
>> children
>> and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not fired
a
>> real
>> gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.
>>
>> Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
>> video
>> game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
>> increases
>> to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
>> Great
>> Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye type
>> targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
>> sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available
>> to
>> your kids, had a 90% kill rate.
>>
>> God blees
>>
>> F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from wired.com)
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
>>> ‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??
>>>
>>> Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
>>> problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
>>> up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
>>> that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
>>> times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
>>> sea…
>>>
>>> —
>>> ”
>>> …the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
>>> pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
>>> seizures, or other hazards that come with living
>>> underwater..”After three or four generations,
>>> inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
>>> live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
>>> by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
>>> floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
>>> engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
>>> normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
>>> 1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> “We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
>>> – A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
>>> be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
>>> hazy moon.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>> Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
>>> the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
>>> scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
>>> Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
>>> the birth of the solar system.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> “Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
>>> before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
>>> deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
>>> told everyone to run for their life and I started
>>> sprinting inland.”
>>> The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
>>> quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
>>> across Asia.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
>>> Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
>>> 37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
>>> percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
>>> results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
>>> Ball.
>>> To devise better systems for training physicians,
>>> Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
>>> movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
>>> the three groups can develop better tools.
>>> While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
>>> training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
>>> kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
>>> More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
>>> surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
>>> Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
>>> surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
>>> techniques to repair injuries.
>>> Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
>>> as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
>>> suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
>>> into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
>>> more than a decade.
>>> Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> he said.
>>> TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
>>> virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
>>> bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
>>> intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
>>> the other assessments they would be required to do in
>>> an actual battlefield.
>>> The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
>>> Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
>>> like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
>>> Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.
>>>
>>> One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
>>> Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
>>> biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
>>> skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
>>> calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
>>> the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
>>> had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
>>> order to make a balloon float through a mystical
>>> environment.
>>> Another product on display was a system developed by
>>> researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
>>> hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
>>> sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
>>> exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
>>> wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
>>> fist fires cannons.
>>> All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
>>> some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.
>>>
>>> “You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
>>> —
>>> —
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
>>> A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
>>> baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
>>> Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
>>> “These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
>>> the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
>>> up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
>>> Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
>>> Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
>>> like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
>>> walking by.”
>>> The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
>>> galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
>>> spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
>>> while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
>>> tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
>>> stars stabilize.
>>> Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
>>> to the Milky Way than previously discovered
>>> “newborns,” scientists can now use various
>>> Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
>>> Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
>>> them in detail.
>>> —
>>> —
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (still ot) stan, not kyle
Date: December 29, 2004 at 9:48:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I mean, Stan, it’s Stan who doesn’t see the point, not Kyle, darn it. Now he’s being banished from South Park, because he’s still saying he doesn’t see the point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) south park and vote or die
Date: December 29, 2004 at 9:45:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In light of my own stated hesitations prior to the last “election,” I post the following.

Oh my god, South Park has done it again- tonight’s episode:

Democracy.
The kids must vote between a giant douch or a giant turd sandwich for school mascot, and Kyle doesn’t see the point in voting because he doesn’t care about either one.
Puff Daddy just showed up at the door with his Vote or Die campaign to illustrate why Kyle should vote. And Kyle’s mom told him, “don’t you know how many people died to give him the right to vote.”
But Kyle just doesn’t care, mainly because he doesn’t see much of a difference.
LOL!
After the “hate crimes” episode, where the South Park kids showed how ridiculous hate crime statutes really are, this has to be one of the classic South Park episodes. I love these kids, even though their creators are self-described Republican-types.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: The Weekly Spin: the 2004 Falsies Awards
Date: December 29, 2004 at 9:38:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

* The U.S. indicted executives from Ogilvy and Mather for
participating in an “extensive scheme to defraud the U.S. Government
by falsely and fraudulently inflating the labor costs that Ogilvy
incurred” for its work on a media campaign for the Office of National
Drug Control Policy. According to O’Dwyer’s PR Daily, O&M’s anti-drug
media campaign work was part of a five-year $684 million dollar
project. The government said it was overcharged by O&M from May 1999
to April 2000.<

(see the rest of the awards and honorable mentions…errr, dishonorable below)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: <weekly-spin@prwatch.org>
To: <weekly-spin@prwatch.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:34 PM
Subject: The Weekly Spin: the 2004 Falsies Awards

THANKS FOR THE (FALSE) MEMORIES: THE 2004 FALSIES AWARDS

———————————————————————
sponsored by the nonprofit Center for Media and Democracy
http://www.prwatch.org
To support our work now online visit:
https://www.egrants.org/donate/index.cfm?ID=2344-0|1118-0
———————————————————————

This year marks the beginning of a new tradition for the Center for
Media and Democracy. To remember the people and players responsible
for polluting our information environment, we are issuing a new
year-end prize that we call the “Falsies Awards.” The top ten
finalists will each receive a million bucks worth of free coupons, a
lifetime supply of non-fattening ice cream, an expenses-paid vacation
in Fallujah, and our promise to respect them in the morning. The
winners of the Falsies Awards for 2004 are:

1. I’M KAREN RYAN, REPORTING

Let’s hear it for video news releases finally getting a smattering of
the public scrutiny they deserve. A video news release or VNR is a
simulated TV news story. Video clips paid for by corporations,
government agencies, and non-governmental organizations are commonly
passed off as legitimate news segments on local newscasts throughout
the United States. VNRs are designed to be indistinguishable from
traditional TV news and are often aired without the original
producers and sponsors being identified and sometimes without any
local editing.

When a VNR touting the controversial Medicare reform law ended with
“In Washington, I’m Karen Ryan, reporting,” Senate Democrats called
foul. The VNR, which aired on 40 stations between January 22 and
February 12, 2004, was paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and
Human Services. Ryan, the “reporter,” was in fact employed by a
production company contracted by the Ketchum PR firm to create the
VNR for HHS. An investigation by the U.S. General Accounting Office
concluded that the VNR had violated a ban on government funded
“publicity and propaganda.” According to The Hill, a newspaper based
in Washington, D.C., “VNRs are standard practice in the
public-relations industry and local news reports often rely on them.
… However, the GAO said in its decision, ‘our analysis of the
proper use of appropriated funds is not based upon the norms in the
public relations and media industry.'”

Karen Ryan was back in the news in October, when the liberal-leaning
People for the American Way identified another Ryan VNR. This time
Ryan “reported” on the Bush Administration’s No Child Left Behind
law. A Freedom of Information Act investigation revealed that the
U.S. Education Department paid $700,000 to the PR firm to produce two
VNRs as well as to rate newspaper coverage according to how favorably
reporters described No Child Left Behind. “A number of local stations
ran the VNR as is, and added a local twist by simply having their own
reporter read the script,” reported CampaignDesk.org, a journalist
watchdog website. “The stations that took the time to have their own
reporters record the script of the No Child Left Behind VNR had to
have been fully aware of what they were doing: knowingly deceiving
their viewers about the origins of the story — not to mention
committing plagiarism — by passing off as their own original
reporting words actually written by a PR company hired by the Bush
administration.”

2. WAR IS SELL

The formerly exiled Iraqi Ahmed Chalabi and his Iraqi National
Congress were exposed as hucksters who befriended powerful men in
Washington and played an instrumental role in selling the Iraq War.
The U.S. major media finally examined the extent to which the INC and
Chalabi used funding provided by the U.S. Congress to position
themselves as a central source for much of the now-discredited
“intelligence information” that the Bush administration used to
justify the March 2003 invasion.

“The former Iraqi exile group that gave the Bush administration
exaggerated and fabricated intelligence on Iraq also fed much of the
same information to newspapers, news agencies and magazines in the
United States, Britain and Australia,” Knight Ridder reported in
March 2004. “A June 26, 2002, letter from the Iraqi National Congress
to the Senate Appropriations Committee listed 108 articles based on
information provided by the Iraqi National Congress’s Information
Collection Program, a U.S.-funded effort to collect intelligence in
Iraq. The Information Collection Program was financed out of the at
least $18 million that the U.S. Congress approved for the Iraqi
National Congress, led by Ahmed Chalabi from 1999 to 2003.”

“Chalabi appears to have recognized that the neocons, while ruthless,
realistic and effective in bureaucratic politics, were remarkably
ignorant about the situation in Iraq, and willing to buy a fantasy of
how the country’s politics worked. So he sold it to them,” John Dizard
wrote for Salon.com in May 2004. In a detailed profile of Chalabi and
the INC, the New Yorker’s Jane Mayer included some fairly candid
admissions by Francis Brooke, the INC’s PR guru. Without Chalabi, he
said, “This war would not have been fought.” Beginning in the late
1990s, Chalabi and Brooke had designed a campaign to influence “only
a couple of hundred people” in Washington with the ability to shape
Iraq policy — people like Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich, Richard Perle
and Dick Cheney. Following 9/11, their marketing strategy switched to
terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. Brooke claimed, “I sent out
an all-points bulletin to our network, saying, ‘Look, guys, get me a
terrorist, or someone who works with terrorists. And, if you can get
stuff on WMD, send it!'”

Following the toppling of Saddam Hussein, the U.S. gave Chalabi one
of the 25 seats on its hand-picked new Iraqi Governing Council. The
Pentagon’s $335,000 monthly payments to the INC’s intelligence
program continued until May 2004, when U.S. intelligence agencies
began reporting that Chalabi may have actually been a double agent
working for Iran. American troops raided Chalabi’s headquarters and
home in Baghdad, arrested two of his aides, and seized documents.
“Only five months ago,” observed Andrew Cockburn, “Chalabi was a
guest of honor sitting right behind Laura Bush at the State of the
Union. What brought about this astonishing fall from grace of the man
who helped provide the faked intelligence that justified last year’s
war?” According to Newsweek, “Bush administration officials say the
latest intelligence indicates [Chalabi] may have been supplying the
Iranians with information on U.S. security operations in Iraq that
could ‘get people killed.'”

Chalabi responded by demanding that the U.S. leave Iraq. “Let my
people go,” he said, adding, “It is time for the Iraqi people to run
their affairs.” More recently he has aligned himself with Muqtada
al-Sadr, the radical Shiite cleric whose militia battled U.S. troops
in August in the Iraqi city of Najaf.

3. THE HIDDEN (IN PLAIN SIGHT) PERSUADERS

Stories of so-called “guerrilla marketing” abounded in 2004. From
martinis to cell phones to TV programs, this stealthy form of
advertising usually features paid agents subtly promoting a product
to an unsuspecting audience. According to Shawn Prez of the marketing
agency Power Moves, stealth techniques are especially effective with
teens. “By the time the message gets out, they don’t even know
they’ve been hit; they don’t know that theyve been marketed to. All
they know is that their interest has been piqued,” Prez said. Our
favorite examples of guerilla marketing include the following:

* In New York, attractive men and women flashed their underwear at
strangers outside Grand Central Terminal to promote a local health
club. The underwear featured the logo of the club along with the
words “Booty Call” to promote an exercise class that works the butt
muscles. (We swear we’re not making this up.)

* A fictional blogger, invented by an ad agency, posted blog entries
claiming that a new Sega video game caused him to suffer blackouts
and uncontrollable fits of violence.

* At Fourth of July cookouts throughout the United States, guests
brought Al Fresco chicken sausages to throw on the grill, without
telling the other guests that they were actually working to earn
premiums from a PR firm that was hired to promote sales of the
product.

“This idea — the commercialization of chitchat — resembles a
scenario from a paranoid science-fiction novel about a future in
which corporations have become so powerful that they can bribe whole
armies of flunkies to infiltrate the family barbecue,” observed Rob
Walker in the New York Times.

4. FOOD INDUSTRY FOXES GUARD THE FDA HEN HOUSE

Food industry lobbyists met repeatedly and privately with Bush
administration officials while the administration was drafting rules
to protect the nation’s food supply from bioterrorism. “The resulting
regulations don’t fully protect the public interest,” stated the
Center for Science in the Public Interest. The Grocery Manufacturers
of America, Altria Group (formerly Philip Morris) and others lobbied
to weaken proposed regulations requiring importers to notify the Food
and Drug Administration before food shipments arrive from overseas.
One GMA lobbyist explained, “We all want regulations to protect
against bioterrorism, but in a way to achieve the goals and allow the
business to operate in an efficient manner.” The Bush administration’s
Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson had nothing to
say about the problem until after the 2004 presidential election,
when he announced his resignation plans. In his departure speech in
December, Thompson warned of possible health-related terrorist
attacks. “For the life of me, I cannot understand why the terrorists
have not attacked our food supply because it is so easy to do,” he
said.

5. SHELL GAME WITH HUMAN RIGHTS

Corporate lobby groups such as the International Chamber of Commerce
(ICC) launched a fierce counter-campaign against the proposed Norms
on Business and Human Rights, which were developed by a subcommission
of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights. The Norms require
businesses internationally to refrain from activities that violate
human rights, coonstraints that have been vigorously opposed by the
ICC and a the Royal Dutch/Shell oil company, a self-proclaimed leader
in the corporate social responsibility (CSR) movement. “Is this not
the kind of campaign one could expect only from companies lagging
behind and from free-riders refusing to adapt to social and
environmental concerns?” asked the Corporate Europe Observatory
(CEO). The motive behind Shell’s opposition, CEO suggested, is that
“the company generally gets away easily with its inflated claims
concerning its social responsibility record.” A 2004 report by
Christian Aid documented that Shell’s operations in the Niger Delta
(Nigeria) are still causing serious problems for local communities.
The report also found that most of the community development projects
presented in various glossy Shell reports on CSR are in fact failing.
“Hospitals, schools and water supply systems are built but never
start working, and roads are mainly used to boost oil production,”
reported CEO. “But beyond the debate about the extent to which
Shell’s CSR claims are actually greenwash and poor-wash, it is clear
that the company is determined to prevent the emergence of
international mechanisms through which communities could hold it
accountable to its pledges.”

6. GHOSTWRITERS FOR BUSH

In August, the Daily Kos weblog uncovered an astroturf (fake
grassroots) initiative by the George W. Bush reelection campaign,
which generated ghostwritten letters to the editor that found their
way into at least 60 newspapers. This wasn’t the first time that the
Bush administration tried this trick, as we’ve reported in the past.
According to Editor and Publisher, however, the National Conference
of Editorial Writers (NCEW) is now taking the issue seriously. “On
its NCEW e-mail listserv, some 600 subscribers who are mostly
editorial page writers and editors, can alert one another of
suspicious letters,” writes Charles Geraci. “In fact, this is the
most consistent topic on the listserv.”

7. FRANK TALK

A leaked memo by Republican advisor Frank Luntz advised GOP
politicians to avoid the words “preemption” and “war in Iraq” when
talking about the Bush administration’s pre-emptive war in Iraq. “To
do so is to undermine your message from the start,” he advised. “Your
efforts are about ‘the principles of prevention and protection’ in the
greater ‘War on Terror.'” According to the June 2004 Washington Post
story, Luntz also recommended that “No speech about homeland security
or Iraq should begin without a reference to 9/11.”

8. NOT-SO-DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION

“One cannot conceive of other elements [that could be] put in place
to create a space that’s more of an affront to the idea of free
expression,” said U.S. District Judge Douglas Woodlock, after touring
the Democratic National Convention’s “free speech” protest zone in
Boston. The zone is “bordered by cement barriers, a double row of
chain-line fencing, heavy black netting, and tightly woven plastic
mesh,” with “coils of razor wire” along elevated train tracks, the
Boston Globe reported. A lawyer for activists challenging the zone
compared it to “a maximum security prison, Guantanamo Bay, or a zoo”
— comparisons Woodlock called “an understatement,” although he
upheld the zone for security reasons. That’s not to say the
Republican National Convention in New York City was a celebration of
civil liberties. The New York Police Department engaged in
pre-emptive arrest tactics to stop activities planned by
demonstrators.

9. IRAQ WAR SUPPORTERS PROFIT FROM RECONSTRUCTION

Several key advocates for the invasion of Iraq are now profiting from
Iraq’s reconstruction. “As lobbyists, public relations counselors and
confidential advisors to senior federal officials, they warned
against Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, praised exiled leader
Ahmad Chalabi, and argued that toppling Saddam Hussein was a matter
of national security and moral duty,” reported Walter F. Roche Jr.
and Ken Silverstein in the Los Angeles Times. “Now, as fighting
continues in Iraq, they are collecting tens of thousands of dollars
in fees for helping business clients pursue federal contracts and
other financial opportunities in Iraq.” Among the profiteers are:

* former CIA Director R. James Woolsey, Jr., a founding member of the
Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI) who used his Pentagon
connections to help arrange for a debriefing of a Iraqi defector
provided by the Iraqi National Congress who gave false information
about Iraqi biological warfare laboratories (see award-winner #2
above);

* Randy Scheunemann, founding president of the CLI; and

* Washington lobbyist K. Riva Levinson, who while at
Burson-Marsteller’s BKSH & Associates did PR work for the INC on the
U.S. State Department’s tab.

10. WAL-MART GETS PR HELP FROM HILL & KNOWLTON

“Wal-Mart is working with Hill & Knowlton on a PR campaign designed
to rehabilitate the much-maligned company’s reputation in California
and pave the way for 40 new Wal-Mart Supercenters in the state in the
next few years,” PR Week reported in October. The world’s largest
retailer published an “open letter to California residents” in 15
California newspapers on September 23. “As the company has grown,
we’ve become a target for negative comments from certain elected
officials, competitors and powerful special interest groups,”
Wal-Mart wrote. PR Week reported that several of H&K’s California
offices had been working with Wal-Mart for several months on the PR
effort, “primarily handling media relations tasks.” Wal-Mart has
announced plans to increase retail space by 8 percent. The company,
which is also facing a class action suit for sex discrimination, had
a record setting in net sales for the six months ended July 31, 2004.

DISHONORABLE MENTIONS

PR and advertising agency Ogilvy & Mather tied Fleishman-Hillard,
another global PR firm, for sheer audacity at draining the public
well.

* Several former employees of Fleishman-Hillard say F-H routinely
overbilled the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power some $30,000
a month. According to the Los Angeles Times, one described F-H’s
attitude as, “Get as much as you can because these accounts may dry
up tomorrow.” Questionable charges include $50 for leaving a phone
message and $850 for a two-hour business lunch (not including the
cost of the meal).

HONORABLE MENTIONS

The Center for Media and Democracy would also like to recognize the
following efforts to expose and counter spin in 2004:

* The post-debate media feeding frenzy where campaign officials talk
up their candidates has come to be called Spin Alley. Comedian Jon
Stewart of Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show” appeared on CNN’s
Crossfire in October, calling it as he saw it. “You go to Spin Alley,
the place called Spin Alley,” he said. “Now, don’t you think that, for
people watching at home, that’s kind of a drag, that you’re literally
walking to a place called deception lane?” On Jay Rosen’s PressThink
weblog, Lisa Stone offered an illuminating history of Spin Alley.
Stewart, she wrote, “was hitting on a practice that had grown more
and more disreputable. As a designated spot for the practice of spin,
the Alley only fell from legitimacy when an alternative practice rose
up and called out to conscience of the press. It was one lesson of
Campaign 2004: Forget about spinning the outcome, just fact check the
debates.”

* Tami Silicio and the Seattle Times brought the first images of U.S.
military casualties to the American mass media in April 2004. Silicio,
a Kuwait-based cargo worker whose photograph of flag-draped coffins of
fallen U.S. soldiers was published in the Times, was fired along with
her husband. Her employer, a private contractor, said it decided to
fire her after receiving a complaint from the military about her
violation of the Pentagon’s ban on images of soldiers’ caskets.

For additional details, including links to further information about
the recipients of the 2004 Falsies Awards, visit this story online
at:

http://www.prwatch.org/node/3144

———————————————————————
The Weekly Spin features selected news summaries with links to
further information about media, political spin and propaganda. It is
emailed free each Wednesday to subscribers.

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Daily updates and news from past weeks can be found at the “Spin of
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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT–Internet-telepathy?
Date: December 29, 2004 at 7:40:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: FakePlacebo [mailto:fakeplacebo@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 10:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Empty sections on mindvox
Date: December 29, 2004 at 7:14:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After clicking through the whole MindVox site, see I
am also using your gratoutious use of capital letters
Patrick 😉 It is really pretty and I love it. Except
after 3 years of people like me mentioning you should
put up a web site and at least take your own articles
out of heroin magazine and put up a ibogaine section
on MindVox, you did that. Only after more then 6
months of being online you still haven’t even filled
out the introduction or added one thing into the media
sections 😉

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

Introduction and Media are empty 🙂

Reminding you 🙂

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine – Rite of Passage
Date: December 29, 2004 at 6:36:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Patrick and thanks for putting that up, it is
really beautiful filming! I’d love to see the movie
but I use a modem to connect which means I can press
the view button and then I went out for the day and
came back and could view the trailer 😉 I don’t
expect you do to anything about that I’m only sharing
🙂

MindVox is beautiful and incomprehensible. After years
I can find some of what’s inside it but it is all
updated whenever you feel like it. I know, it’s your
psychedelic graveyard videogame for schizophrenics.
The ibogaine part of MindVox is beautiful and easy to
find everything. The movies site has a great opening
page and then nothing on it is put together in any way
that makes the least amount of sense about what is
happening with the movie, where it will air, where to
order a dvd or anything.

I trust you’ll let us know 🙂 I’m not complaining I’m
only sharing again 😉 beautiful movie footage, awful
website! It also resizes my screen and moves the
browser around I hate that!!!

A great new year to all!

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Ibogaine – Rite of Passage is a documentary about
that wunnerful
substance which has brought all of us here, now,
together, gathered in
a large group, only scattered all over planet Earth,
and other
dimenshunZ.

It’s a film by a very talented do0d named Ben De
Loenen. It has been
shown publicly in various places over the course of
the last three
months, and the final version is now completed. It
will be available
on DVD within 30-45 days.

You can view the Trailer here:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2004LunArt.html

Information regarding the film — broadcast
dates/stations/nations, and
how to obtain the DVD — will be posted here, as it
becomes available.

HappY hOLIDAZe,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
Date: December 29, 2004 at 6:32:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering all
the
dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget
the
video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
reflexes..)….

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
today’s
games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother and
I
got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in
our
house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
‘rents
by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
practice

in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
first day we ever fired a firearm.
I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on foreign
countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs
on
MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today?
(are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
never
used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to trained
army
professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
who
shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
children
and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not fired
a
real
gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: December 29, 2004 at 4:03:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Ron,

Havn’t we all?

Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ron

many thanks, i have lots of character work, gotta change to stay straight. stay the course, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ron

Hey Ron,

Hows it going brother.
I have been thinking of you and wandering how you are.
So,..how are you? 🙂 .

Love Jasen……smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah AND JASEN AND KIRSTY

MET A COMPASSIONATE DOC, NO IBO FOR WHAT AILS ME. ROUGH ROAD AHEAD, THANKS FOR CONCERN, LOVE RON
From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] too much heroin
Date: December 29, 2004 at 2:50:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s so much heroin being produced in Afghanistan that the mules cannot handle the load:

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: December 29, 2004 at 1:42:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,

Hows it going brother.
I have been thinking of you and wandering how you are.
So,..how are you? 🙂 .

MET A COMPASSIONATE DOC, NO IBO FOR WHAT AILS ME. ROUGH ROAD AHEAD, THANKS FOR CONCERN, LOVE RON
From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine – Rite of Passage
Date: December 29, 2004 at 10:43:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick,

Just wondering if this film will be available in
Canada…would I have to order it?

Thanks,
Julie

__________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
Date: December 29, 2004 at 9:15:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this<

from what I remember reading, he was involved in playing some sort of Doom-like game with a bunch of youngsters (compared to him) where instead of shooting each other they were engaged in Steal the Flag type activities, but as noted, I’m not sure I’m remembering entirely correctly, which is why I like someone else who might remember betterer to fill us in on the details of what I’m thinking of.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:28 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)

Dear Preston,

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) totally bizzare
Date: December 29, 2004 at 6:59:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

You are most welcome!

I also think you can have a larger dose next time. You also be more relaxed doing it.

All the best,

Sara

Van: Sapphirestardus@aol.com [mailto:Sapphirestardus@aol.com]  Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 5:27 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) totally bizzare

Hi sara! I just want to thank you for offering your psychological support while I experienced Ibogaine this past weekend. It was a very nice experience but I am still looking forward to doing it with you next year as well as doing a larger dose as well as other experiences ‘thrown in’ (as grass, mushrooms et al) There’s quite a potential in this and as I have always maintained and still do, I am referring to an Ibogaine experience for whatever ‘growth’ and/or education I can get from it. You seem to be one of the few humans who are willing to view Ibogaine as more than just a treatment to get off drugs but as a treatment for life in general.    Thanks again and I’ll tell you about the amputation in a different letter.    Thank you and love to your family.    Julian

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Mr. Preston (alienation)
Date: December 29, 2004 at 4:28:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Preston,

Would you tell me that how we linked up to others brain while playing Quake,
or the other click and kill games.
Is this the begining of the new era? Are you sure? Yes I accept that playing
this kind of games doesn’t make one is murderer but do you feel that you
were missing something while you were playing FRP, or click and kill games.

I don’t suppose Timothy mean this

Faces are deleting and all of us have no face. Because we are loosing the
humanity.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] merry christmas and happy holidays to all
Date: December 29, 2004 at 4:19:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Xmas dinner here for us in NZ was also a bar-b-q and our dogs & cats definitely voted in favour of the choice. Other than the food our cats got cool balls with magnetic things in them to make them roll and the dogs got treat balls to play with & spent ages rolling them around and playing as well as eating the treats in them. Whats a feathered cat dancer?? Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 27 December 2004 4:25:29 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] merry christmas and happy holidays to all

>Plus xmas dinner for them was sausages and steak cos we did the bar-b-q
>thing rather than traditional xmas dinner but they all voted in favour of
>that choice.<

V is strict vegan and I’ve been vegitarian since my ibo spell in August, but
cats being cats, carnivorous and all, they got one heck of a lot of food
neither of us would eat, what with V snatching a whole mess of leftover
flesh to bring home to the furry little beasties.
They also got this feathered “cat dancer” thing that rocks, and they love
it.
V’s sister has a huge slobbery dog that got a few of those big dried leather
bone things to chew on, but prefered the old, partially deflated soccarball
he (Berkeley) found in the woods out back of V’s Mom’s house, bringing it to
me to kick (softly as it’s very difficult for me to kick very hard with my
back and leg issues, but it’s almost harder to say no to a dog I love who
wants to play and keeps telling me so in no uncertain terms).
Anyway, good day to all, and nice to hear about your pleasent
christmases all, especially those shared (as opposed to imposed) with the
other creatures on our planet.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] merry christmas and happy holidays to all

So good Preston & V Our dogs got treat ball toys and the cats got some cute
balls with like magnetic things that made them roll really well. Plus xmas
dinner for them was sausages and steak cos we did the bar-b-q thing rather
than traditional xmas dinner but they all voted in favour of that choice.
What was the weather like with you. I know I went to sleep on the lawn
after a few glasses of wine and got horribly sunburned but thats about the
most summer we have had so far. We are hoping that things will improve but
not holding our breath. Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 26 December 2004 12:23:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] merry christmas and happy holidays to all

>> =) Hope V ‘n U (‘n the cats) have good one too =)<

the cats got all sorts of toys and goodies, including “a whole of tub of
mind altering fun!” as one of the marketing balloons on the lid of their new
catnip puts it.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] merry christmas and happy holidays to all

> =) Hope V ‘n U (‘n the cats) have good one too =)
>
>
>
> — Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>> Just wanted to post really quick a holiday cheer
>> wish for everyone.
>> So merry christmas and for the rest happiness as
>> well please.
>>
>>
>> Peace and love,
>> Preston Peet
>>
>> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
>> enlightenment is often
>> mistaken for madness”
>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
>> Guide to Drugs”
>> Cont. High Times mag/.com
>> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> Columnist New York Waste
>> Etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Allison
Date: December 29, 2004 at 4:07:38 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didn’t quite mean the whole addiction to methadone was psychological. I just thought that after being on 85mgs a day for the last so many yrs that there would have been enough build up in the system to carry him through from his normal 8 or 9am dose till 4pm without stressing out but I must admit I havent been there and obviously didn’t put my brain into gear & think hard enough about it. I just know that some days he will almost forget & it can be hours later but perhaps its situations or stress that triggers the need. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 27 December 2004 2:52:15 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Allison

Dear Allison,

Addiction to methadone is NOT just psychological! If
you do not get your drink at roughly the same time,
you can start going into withdrawal, especially if you
are a fast metabolizer.

My methadone dose NEVER lasted 24 hours- more like 16,
or 18 if I was lucky. And then the sweats would start
setting in, the pins/needles, and hot/cold flashes.
More serious withdrawal usually doesn’t start until
about day 2-3 post-methadone, but physical discomfort
(which can be very distracting) can set in as early as
half a day after your drink.

Happy holidays, and love to you and your family,

Julie (so glad to be off the ‘done)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ‘…juggle; another day, another struggle…’
Date: December 29, 2004 at 2:28:52 AM EST
To: 8bit@oddioblender.tk
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

”
When one makes twenty million, ten thousand people
loose. What keeps that one from swallowing a shotgun?

The guilty dont feel guilty, they learned not to.

”

___________________________________________________________
How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail
gives you 250MB! Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 29, 2004 at 12:45:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, I know what ya mean, after my Doom sessions (lasting several hours,
gawd I need a job… preferably somewhere with red bull and games…hmm) if
I closed my eyes I’d be sailing doom style down weird looking corridors. Wif
my widdle gun poking out in front. Gee, is that what it feels like to be
male??
Lmao
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 1:22 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

not very often at all. matter of fact about an hour or so I fired up
UnrealTournament2003 and within ten minutes my heart was racing, my
palms were sweaty and I wanted more. hmmm… remind you of anything?

good news is this little spree didn’t cost me a dime. bad news is, I
didn’t get any work done and now I want a better video card to handle
the texture mapping. NOT!

A company I used to work for got all the free redbull we could drink.
It was company policy if we all opened a redbull w/in 5 minutes of each
other, that constituted grounds for an hour long Quake Killing Spree.
We had five Macs networked together. This happened about 3X a week.
Quake, RedBull and Hostess Ho-Ho’s. Quite a combo.

I would dream in Quake 3D for 2 nights after playing.

blah blah blah…

There is a great science fiction book called Otherland (actually there
are 3 or 4 books in the series, I think the first one is “River of Blue
Fire”) which describes virtual reality worlds where you can get trapped
online. spooky… and a good read if yah like that sorta shit.

_.dh

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
need others I know to play with/against. (I was practicing my French
while playing Men of Valor- a ‘Nam-based fps game- last night, with
someone speaking French while playing in Milan, Italy. That’s pretty
cool.)
Let me know.
Didn’t Tim Leary see virtual reality/online gaming as the “next
step” in hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary
step, that we’re basically linking up cyberly to others and their
brains, and that soon wetware will be a reality too? Or something
along these lines? (Trying to bring this back on-topic.)
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering all
the
dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget
the
video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
reflexes..)…. ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy
scouts, which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids
who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
today’s
games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother
and I
got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed
in our
house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
‘rents
by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
practice

in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
the
first day we ever fired a firearm.
I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on
foreign
countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
bombs on
MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies
today? (are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave
Grossman from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
Dave
Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt.
Col. Dave
Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
called
Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.

He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
never
used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to
trained
army
professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
boy
who
shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
children
and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not
fired a
real
gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.

Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
video
game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
increases
to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
Great
Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye
type
targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
available to
your kids, had a 90% kill rate.

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 29, 2004 at 12:42:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gawd damn X boxes!!
(mutters lots and goes back to her first episode of Tomb Raider)

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) totally bizzare
Date: December 28, 2004 at 11:27:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks again and I’ll tell you about the amputation in a different letter.

Thank you and love to your family.

Julian

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 28, 2004 at 11:20:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The fantasy series of books called Otherland is written by Tad Williams who also wrote a triology called the Dragonbone Chair which was also really good. All well worth reading in my opinion. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 1:21:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

good news is this little spree didn’t cost me a dime. bad news is, I
didn’t get any work done and now I want a better video card to handle
the texture mapping. NOT!

I would dream in Quake 3D for 2 nights after playing.

blah blah blah…

_.dh

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

> LOL,
> Do you play online DH?
> If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I
> need others I know to play with/against. (I was practicing my French
> while playing Men of Valor- a ‘Nam-based fps game- last night, with
> someone speaking French while playing in Milan, Italy. That’s pretty
> cool.)
> Let me know.
> Didn’t Tim Leary see virtual reality/online gaming as the “next
> step” in hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary
> step, that we’re basically linking up cyberly to others and their
> brains, and that soon wetware will be a reality too? Or something
> along these lines? (Trying to bring this back on-topic.)
> ;-))
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
> often mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
> —– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
>
>
> in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:
>
>> Yes Preston, it’s just amazing how we are still alive considering all
>> the
>> dangers we faced as children!! Far less safety, no flu shots, forget
>> the
>> video games (we should be vegetables really with fark all
>> reflexes..)…. ah
>> yes, back in MY day……
>> Lol
>> Kirk
>>
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>>
>> I love these games.
>> Darn it, am I going to suddenly wake up a killer now?
>> Egad, I’m doomed…errr, no, that’s not right, haven’t played the new
>> Doom
>> yet, so I’m not actually doomed, not yet, but I do have a Halo, or at
>> least
>> rented Halo 2 not so long ago and had a ball with it.
>> Blaming videogames for social and youth violence isn’t any more valid
>> (in my
>>
>> opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
>> And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
>> firearms,
>>
>> (in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
>> year I
>>
>> entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
>> brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy
>> scouts, which
>>
>> takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids
>> who
>> weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
>> firearms),
>>
>> and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of
>> today’s
>> games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother
>> and I
>> got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
>> experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed
>> in our
>> house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my
>> ‘rents
>> by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no
>> practice
>>
>> in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from
>> the
>> first day we ever fired a firearm.
>> I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on
>> foreign
>> countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping
>> bombs on
>> MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies
>> today? (are
>> kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)
>>
>> Peace and love,
>> Preston Peet
>>
>> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>> often
>> mistaken for madness”
>> Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>> Cont. High Times mag/.com
>> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> Columnist New York Waste
>> Etc.
>>
>>
>> —– Original Message —–
>> From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill
>>
>>
>>> “Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>> he said.
>>>
>>> Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave
>>> Grossman from
>>> West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet
>>>
>>> Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
>>> Dave
>>> Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
>>> insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
>>> published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt.
>>> Col. Dave
>>> Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
>>> called
>>> Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.
>>>
>>> After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col.
>>> Grossman,
>>> who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
>>> investigate
>>> the mass killing of children and others by children.
>>>
>>> He found out some startling things. First, that many of these killers
>>> never
>>> used a gun before, yet they exhibited superior marksmanship to
>>> trained
>>> army
>>> professionals. For instance, Michael Carneal, the fourteen year old
>>> boy
>>> who
>>> shot up the prayer group in Paducha, KY, fired eight shots on eight
>>> children
>>> and had eight hits. Experts were amazed to find that he had not
>>> fired a
>>> real
>>> gun before. Where did he get his marksmanship training? Video games.
>>>
>>> Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the
>>> video
>>> game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate
>>> increases
>>> to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and
>>> Great
>>> Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye
>>> type
>>> targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
>>> sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games
>>> available to
>>> your kids, had a 90% kill rate.
>>>
>>> God blees
>>>
>>> F
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> —– Original Message —–
>>> From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
>>> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 6:32 PM
>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot- ?/”super monkey ball” (snips from wired.com)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
>>>> ‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??
>>>>
>>>> Re: methadone not lasting 24 hours… I had that
>>>> problem too, waking up sick isn’t the best way to get
>>>> up in the morning, ‘done Doc gave a split dose and
>>>> that cleared it up. I had to request the split 3
>>>> times though because of the ‘take home’ factor.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
>>>> sea…
>>>>
>>>> —
>>>> ”
>>>> …the structure’s interior would be kept at surface
>>>> pressure, ensuring no one is exposed to the bends,
>>>> seizures, or other hazards that come with living
>>>> underwater..”After three or four generations,
>>>> inhabitants would ask, Are there really people who
>>>> live on the surface?”. Vent-Based Alpha gets its power
>>>> by tapping 700-degree volcanic vents on the ocean
>>>> floor – the superhot water drives thermal cycle
>>>> engines to produce electricity..90 percent of their
>>>> normal dexterity, so they can handle detail work under
>>>> 1,500 pounds per square inch of pressure.
>>>> —
>>>> —
>>>>
>>>> “We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
>>>> – A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
>>>> be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
>>>> hazy moon.
>>>> —
>>>> —
>>>>
>>>> Earlier in the month, images and measurements taken by
>>>> the $3.3 billion Cassini spacecraft confirmed
>>>> scientists’ suspicions that Saturn’s dark moon,
>>>> Phoebe, is a planetary building block left over from
>>>> the birth of the solar system.
>>>> —
>>>> —
>>>> “Then I heard an eerie sound that I have never heard
>>>> before. It was a high pitched sound followed by a
>>>> deafening roar which seemed to be getting louder. I
>>>> told everyone to run for their life and I started
>>>> sprinting inland.”
>>>> The tsunami, triggered by the world’s fifth-largest
>>>> quake in a century, has killed at least 9,500 people
>>>> across Asia.
>>>> —
>>>> —
>>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66086,00.html
>>>> Surgeons who play video games three hours a week have
>>>> 37 percent fewer errors and accomplish tasks 27
>>>> percent faster, he says, basing his observation on
>>>> results of tests using the video game Super Monkey
>>>> Ball.
>>>> To devise better systems for training physicians,
>>>> Rosser and his colleagues brought together surgeons,
>>>> movie makers and video game designers to discuss ways
>>>> the three groups can develop better tools.
>>>> While the systems are aimed mostly at medical
>>>> training, he also does classroom demonstrations so
>>>> kids can get a taste of what it’s like.
>>>> More than 5,000 people, from schoolchildren to
>>>> surgeons, have done training exercises on a system
>>>> Rosser calls Top Gun, designed to train laparoscopic
>>>> surgeons, doctors who use minimally-invasive
>>>> techniques to repair injuries.
>>>> Rosser has had subjects play Super Monkey Ball as well
>>>> as practice techniques of laparoscopic surgery by
>>>> suturing a sponge with long probes and dropping a pea
>>>> into a hole. In all, he has done Top Gun training for
>>>> more than a decade.
>>>> Video games also have much to offer the military, said
>>>> Greg Mogel, a radiologist and director of the West
>>>> Coast arm of TATRC, who spoke alongside Rosser at the
>>>> conference held in Marina del Rey.
>>>> “You train as you fight and you fight as you train,”
>>>> he said.
>>>> TATRC demonstrated a program called STATCare, a
>>>> virtual simulator for combat medics that lets them
>>>> bandage wounds, apply tourniquets, administer
>>>> intravenous fluids, inject medications and make all of
>>>> the other assessments they would be required to do in
>>>> an actual battlefield.
>>>> The program is proven to work, said TATRC’s J. Harvey
>>>> Magee, but “on the negative side, it doesn’t respond
>>>> like a really cool video game yet.” That is where
>>>> Rosser said he hoped the conference would be of value.
>>>>
>>>> One of the other titles he helped demonstrate was The
>>>> Journey to Wild Divine, a $160 game that relies on
>>>> biofeedback. Players with heart-rate and
>>>> skin-conduction monitors hooked to their fingers must
>>>> calm the body and mind to bring responses in line with
>>>> the demands of the game. In a demonstration, players
>>>> had to control their heart rate and stress levels in
>>>> order to make a balloon float through a mystical
>>>> environment.
>>>> Another product on display was a system developed by
>>>> researcher Walter Greenleaf that applies technology to
>>>> hand rehabilitation — patients wear a special
>>>> sensor-laden glove and control a video game by doing
>>>> exercises. In the classic game Asteroids, rotating the
>>>> wrist moves a spaceship left and right, while making a
>>>> fist fires cannons.
>>>> All of that gameplay may sound like a waste of time to
>>>> some people, but for Rosser, it’s all part of the job.
>>>>
>>>> “You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
>>>> —
>>>> —
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://wired.com/news/space/0,2697,66114,00.html
>>>> A NASA spacecraft has detected three dozen “massive,
>>>> baby galaxies” forming relatively close to our own
>>>> Milky Way, scientists announced Tuesday.
>>>> “These galaxies give us a great opportunity to study
>>>> the processes that gave birth to galaxies in an
>>>> up-close and personal way,” said team leader Tim
>>>> Heckman, director of the Center for Astrophysical
>>>> Sciences at Johns Hopkins University. “It’s almost
>>>> like looking out the window and seeing a dinosaur
>>>> walking by.”
>>>> The Earth-orbiting Galex spacecraft found the baby
>>>> galaxies by scanning the sky for exceptionally bright
>>>> spots of ultraviolet light. The light is given off
>>>> while stars are being formed within young galaxies and
>>>> tends to diminish as the galaxies get older and the
>>>> stars stabilize.
>>>> Because the newfound galaxies are several times closer
>>>> to the Milky Way than previously discovered
>>>> “newborns,” scientists can now use various
>>>> Earth-orbiting observatories, like the Hubble Space
>>>> Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, to study
>>>> them in detail.
>>>> —
>>>> —
>>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66050,00.html
>>>> http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65990,00.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>>> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>>
>>
>> —
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 28, 2004 at 9:17:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/28/04 8:59:13 PM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< Didn’t Leary get discredited in the end or was that

just bad press? >>

Tim Leary effected though his promotion of LSD the way millions of people
think. Maybe even tens of millions, maybe more. How do you discredit that?

Howard

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) totally bizzare
Date: December 28, 2004 at 9:03:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Kirsty,
Aren’t you down in NZ? What an amazing country.
Incredible.
Spent some time there. I am only asking because its a
long way for those
sauces to travel. Will they keep or can you beem them
to me? I certainly
would like some of what you are tucking into.
I think you are right in what you say. Maybe you have
the same
sources as me. Guess we will have to wait for
directions.
In any case I dont see any bombs dropping on you. One
of the
benefits of living in a small country. Only problem is
Ireland is very
close to England and sadly thats a country thats too
allied to the US.
I envy you being down under. But, I guess I have a lot
to be thankful
for here in the emerald isle when I am here. Luckily
the Spanish
government has changed!
Say hello for me to the world that surrounds you :).
Lee

— Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk@kol.co.nz> wrote:
Hehheh, so Lee, what are you saying, I’m just plain
stupid??? Lmao ( I know
ya didn’t mean that…. did ya?? Hehheh)
Anyway, Lee, if it’s any consolation…..my
“sources” say that those in
power are fighting their last fight and are on their
last legs as a new era
takes over the planet and humanity. Sadly, not
without a few casualties
first…. but (apparently) it’s on its way. Good
news? Let’s hope so ay?
Believe it or sod off!!!!
Lol
Koik
(ps lee, if you want my sauces giz a yell ok! ;o))

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2004 10:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) totally bizzare

=====
http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 28, 2004 at 8:51:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,
If V-reality is the next wave I am sure you will be
riding it.
A question.
Didn’t Leary get discredited in the end or was that
just bad press?
Lee

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription
to x-box live and I need
others I know to play with/against. (I was
practicing my French while
playing Men of Valor- a ‘Nam-based fps game- last
night, with someone
speaking French while playing in Milan, Italy.
That’s pretty cool.)
Let me know.
Didn’t Tim Leary see virtual reality/online
gaming as the “next step” in
hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next
evolutionary step, that we’re
basically linking up cyberly to others and their
brains, and that soon
wetware will be a reality too? Or something along
these lines? (Trying to
bring this back on-topic.)
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

in celebration of death and violence I will now play
UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kir

=====
http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: December 28, 2004 at 8:11:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,

Hows it going brother.
I have been thinking of you and wandering how you are.
So,..how are you? 🙂 .

MET A COMPASSIONATE DOC, NO IBO FOR WHAT AILS ME. ROUGH ROAD AHEAD, THANKS FOR CONCERN, LOVE RON
From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine – Rite of Passage
Date: December 28, 2004 at 8:03:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibogaine – Rite of Passage is a documentary about that wunnerful substance which has brought all of us here, now, together, gathered in a large group, only scattered all over planet Earth, and other dimenshunZ.

It’s a film by a very talented do0d named Ben De Loenen. It has been shown publicly in various places over the course of the last three months, and the final version is now completed. It will be available on DVD within 30-45 days.

You can view the Trailer here:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2004LunArt.html

Information regarding the film — broadcast dates/stations/nations, and how to obtain the DVD — will be posted here, as it becomes available.

HappY hOLIDAZe,

Patrick

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 28, 2004 at 7:22:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

not very often at all. matter of fact about an hour or so I fired up UnrealTournament2003 and within ten minutes my heart was racing, my palms were sweaty and I wanted more. hmmm… remind you of anything?

good news is this little spree didn’t cost me a dime. bad news is, I didn’t get any work done and now I want a better video card to handle the texture mapping. NOT!

A company I used to work for got all the free redbull we could drink. It was company policy if we all opened a redbull w/in 5 minutes of each other, that constituted grounds for an hour long Quake Killing Spree. We had five Macs networked together. This happened about 3X a week. Quake, RedBull and Hostess Ho-Ho’s. Quite a combo.

I would dream in Quake 3D for 2 nights after playing.

blah blah blah…

There is a great science fiction book called Otherland (actually there are 3 or 4 books in the series, I think the first one is “River of Blue Fire”) which describes virtual reality worlds where you can get trapped online. spooky… and a good read if yah like that sorta shit.

_.dh

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need others I know to play with/against. (I was practicing my French while playing Men of Valor- a ‘Nam-based fps game- last night, with someone speaking French while playing in Milan, Italy. That’s pretty cool.)
Let me know.
Didn’t Tim Leary see virtual reality/online gaming as the “next step” in hallucinogens? Like that it was/is the next evolutionary step, that we’re basically linking up cyberly to others and their brains, and that soon wetware will be a reality too? Or something along these lines? (Trying to bring this back on-topic.)
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts, which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real firearms),

and were never allowed to play most videogames either (and none of today’s
games even existed for that matter), I’m wondering where my brother and I
got our accuracy skills from. We both had extremely limited firearms
experience, next to none really with no firearms whatsoever allowed in our
house (my one pellet gun having been bought and kept hidden from my ‘rents
by me during my last year in high school which gave me little to no practice

in shooting), and yet we both were “naturals,” and did very well from the
first day we ever fired a firearm.
I don’t suppose their parents dropping bombs and poisons on foreign
countries (not to mention burning up Branch Davidians and dropping bombs on
MOVE) have anything to do with kids’ alleged violent tendencies today? (are
kids really more violent today than in days of yore anywho?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col. Dave
Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
insight into how the media teaches children to kill. Movieguide® has
published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col. Dave
Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
called
Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.

After the Jonesboro Arkansas killings by two children, Lt. Col. Grossman,
who taught officers candidates at West Point to kill, started to
investigate
the mass killing of children and others by children.

Lt. Col. Grossman shows that without the operant conditioning of the video
game, a soldier’s kill rate is about 15%. With it, the kill rate increases
to 90%. Thus, in the recent 1982 Falklands War between Argentina and Great
Britain, the Argentines who trained with old-fashioned bull’s-eye type
targets, had a 15% kill rate, whereas the British who trained with
sophisticated computer games, adapted from the Nintendo games available to
your kids, had a 90% kill rate.

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
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http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004

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Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 28, 2004 at 7:07:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LoL, Preston, those games are very addictive!
But they are fun.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 29 december 2004 0:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??

LOL,
Do you play online DH?
If so, as mentioned, V bought me a subscription to x-box live and I need

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

in celebration of death and violence I will now play UnReal Tournament.

On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Kirsty Sutherland wrote:

ah
yes, back in MY day……
Lol
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

opinion anyway) than blaming Catcher in the Rye or Naked Lunch is.
And having known kids, myself included, who did very well with
firearms,

(in my case, winning the Best Shot in my high school the one and only
year I

entered the competition, my sophmore year of High School, and both my
brother and I earning our Rifle and Shotgun meritbadges in boy scouts,
which

takes a lot of very accurate firing, which wasn’t easy for two kids who
weren’t allowed to have even toy guns in our home, much less real
firearms),

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Learning to kill

Yeap, you bet , This remember me of a study by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
from
West Point, here is a review of his book I took from internet

Whenever I talk on the influence of the mass media, I quote Lt. Col.
Dave
Grossman because he has given us the most definitive and the clearest
insight into how the media teaches children to kill. MovieguideR has
published his exhaustive article on this crucial topic. Now, Lt. Col.
Dave
Grossman has written a book clearly setting forth his cogent argument
called
Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill.

God blees

Does anyone know where I can find free semi-complete
‘medical definitions & terminology’ mp3’s??

I wonder if Ibo space-time is different in the deep
sea…

“We are going to hear what Titan sounds like.”
– A NASA scientist says the Huygens space probe will
be able to collect the sweet sounds heard on Saturn’s
hazy moon.
—
—

“You have to be a Nintendo surgeon,” he said.
—
—

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

/ ]=———————————————————————
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—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004

—
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 – Release Date: 12/21/2004

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive??
Date: December 28, 2004 at 6:15:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com