Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-09

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal Trippin’ in tha Purple Haze at St. Kitts
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:59:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 30, 2004, at 6:35 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Dana … Part of the reason “Patrick is so frantically preparing” is due to certain people [Dana] whom I speak with, on average, oh, say, twice a day [Dana], that have been aware of Every Single Aspect of the Ibogaine Panel at the HRC Conference [Dana], since its very inception; [Dana] who were asked, not once, twice, five, ten, nay … all these would be understatements, let’s just be honest and say they were involved since the Very Beginning [Dana] and asked AT LEAST 25 times, [Dana] over a 3 month span of time, regarding their needs, [Dana] and the possible whereabouts of Various Other People [Dana].

This same person [Dana] spent roughly 350 phone calls discussing their BUILDING [Dana], instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the Ibogaine Panel [Dana].  Who submitted their talk, title, position on the panel, and all related information [Dana], piece by piece, [Dana] and assured me everything was all-good [Dana].

And then … [Dana] true to form, this person [Dana] has a BursT of INSPIRATION and ACTIVITY, two weeks after the final, extended, THIS IS *really* the Very Last Final Deadline [Dana] — it’s all gone to the printers and we’re DONE NOW — and need to have Everything Rearranged Completely, [Dana] or The World Will End [Dana].

Ahum.  We’ll just skip right past all that and not name any names [Dana].

Yeah, I’m kinda busy n’ shit.  <Shrug>

On Sep 30, 2004, at 11:32 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from
chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about
it as anyone else on this list. >>

Dear Dana,

Just remember it is long acting.  It comes on in three phases.  And, it
actually does eventually cease its activity.  There is no reason not to follow
shamanic tradition and dose escalate up to educate yourself in a safe manner.  On
the other hand there is the, “here take this. Bamm!!! type of dosing.  You are
certainly in touch with just about everyone in the scene so you have the
opportunity to be well advised.  Give yourself plenty of recovery time. Will you
be going to St Kitts?

Howard

YES!  YeS!!!  FUCK YES!

That’s it mahn!  Howard, you’re a genius!  Dana, just get a fourth — and/or 5th — mortgage on your BUILDING (everyone has ’em these days), and SIGN UP!  We shall have the Dana Beal(R) Round!

SCIENCE will be Completely Rearranged!

It will spawn a BURST of activity!  The Dana Beal Monographs(R) will be submitted to JOURNALS!  Ibogaine will never be the same again.

“Subject appears to be Completely Fucking Crazy prior to administration of ibogaine HCl.”

… <12 hours later> …

“Subject is still Completely Fucking Crazy.  There has been no perceptible change whatsoever.”

p.s., If’n you givz me fiddy dollah, we can skip the ibogaine, hang out in the West Indies, and I’ll lie and just tell everyone you FINALLY DID THE GODDAMN IBOGAINE.

Thank you.

Patrick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Gay City News Aricle
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:45:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished. >>

So who is writing the article?

I also want to suggest that you may consider Ibogaine as a treatment for
methamphetamine in the gay community as your topic for discussion during the
ibogaine roundtable.  I think it would certainly pull in a significant audience.

Let me know what you think.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:42:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jasen,

Thanks for all the candles.:)  Monday afternoon is the start of journey.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:38:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla’s Complaint>That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low
dose, from chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–<

Dana, Dana, Dana, you have had a piece of rootbark in your mouth, no? That
is not the same thing at all as eating it, or “doing it” rather. As I noted
before, yesterday I think, I honestly and greatly appreciate your efforts to
promote ibogaine and hope that you continue to do so. But I think it’s a bit
disingenuous for you to claim you’ve “done it,” when from what you’ve told
me, you haven’t “done it,” you’ve “tasted” it.
And, you’re waiting for some actual HCL to “do it again”? I’m sure
someone could probably help you with that whenever you ask.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from chewed
rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m waiting to get
some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be able to control the dose
regimin, since I know at least as much about it as anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The point
is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his paper. And Greg
just told me they might print an article on ibogaine, one not done by
Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum,
such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that
Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more fluid,
all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the
years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors and
reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better to leave
them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who, willfully
ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d already know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees — that
Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving across a
broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a miracle cure,
because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND stimulants).  HE said
that the one organized group that could get Ibogaine through the
bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they did with the AIDS drugs)
shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option. Basically, he doesn’t want to
tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite the irony of Peter Staley voting to
stop development of ibogaine in 1994, and then proceeding to get strung out
on crystal and contracting new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to expect
to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is complicated
by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was trying to blackmail
Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated by Ardolino and a few other
people, but it was enough to make a big swath of people here skeptical. This
isn’t impossible to change, but it takes effort, both by providers and by
activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the way they
are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list gotten
Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in 1989, I
realized that it might not help my case for critics to be able to say (a la
Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his favorite drug.” But
times have changed,  and now I have a genuine medical need to do it. (A gram
and a half of indra got rid of my daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a
prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I think that will work better for this
purpose. I just don’t think the splitting of skull is needful. Already had
my religious experience.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:32:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from
chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about
it as anyone else on this list. >>

Dear Dana,

Just remember it is long acting.  It comes on in three phases.  And, it
actually does eventually cease its activity.  There is no reason not to follow
shamanic tradition and dose escalate up to educate yourself in a safe manner.  On
the other hand there is the, “here take this. Bamm!!! type of dosing.  You are
certainly in touch with just about everyone in the scene so you have the
opportunity to be well advised.  Give yourself plenty of recovery time. Will you
be going to St Kitts?

Howard

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:23:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,

Even though Dana sent this out to the whole list for their reading pleasure, you will notice that it was addressed to me and Preston.  I live in the NYC area and am very concerned by the growing crystal problem in the gay community. And unfortunately too often self proclaimed gay leaders make wrongheaded statements without knowing the facts.

Remember the letter is a reprint of a letter to the Gay City News.  Dana is certainly in no way alone on this issue.  In fact I think it is absolutely remarkable that a straight ally would stick his neck out like Dana does for the gay community. He really gives a shit. And given the rising HIV rate among young gay men, we really cannot afford to let self proclaimed experts ruin the lives of young gay men with misinformation about potential addiction treatment, in this case ibogaine.

I think that’s the point.:)

All the best,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:16:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Sure can feel that virtual love and handholding.  Will hold on to that on my journey next week.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:08:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Randy,

Have a beautiful journey and please post as soon as you are able afterwards. You have pulled me up more times than I count, and I am so damn pleased that your time has come.

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:13:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment

Callie, I have had those same thoughts in my head about giving up something that sucks but seems to be working at least a little bit. I’ve been on and off . I plan on not looking at the ‘puter till after I have done this so

light a candle Friday night and have a good weekend. I’ll see yall after the walls come down.       Randy     PS Callie, somehow

I know its coming for you too, soon. You can do it. Be ready.

*Hey Randy,

*Today in Australia it is Friday 12pm,I lit a candle for you,it is on my desk as I type.

*I am in a similar situation to you, and Callie,many years,…to many(to many for me that is).

*Sean,you kindly offered to light a candle for me when I do my treatment, would like to do the same for you,Callie
*and anyone else that is about to be treated,let me know what day Sean and candles will be lit.

*I enjoyed this list very much today,thankyou.I am always thankful for the list however some days I enjoy it more than others.

The candle is lit,and it’s light is beautiful.       Smiles Jasen

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:46:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,
Wow,great to see a photo and I love the yin/yang dragon.
It is nice to see pictures of people on the list so you can picture who is
posting.
Yes, that is a great photo of  V,with respect,V is a very attractive looking
woman,and the way you have spoken about her heart in the past posts,it
sounds like you are a very fortunate man.Good on ya.
Smiles Jasen
01, 2004 12:27 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] photos

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our families, not
including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go around). Two are of my
newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the Influence, but only the title
is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:16:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla to correct you on one part of your message, I’ve lost the
original thread through your’s, Julie’s and other’s quotes but Dana
wrote a inflammatory and reactionary message to this list.

The reasonable and very good I thought, letter that went to the
newspaper was not written by Dana.

Dana then mentioned that Sean and Preston would be doing outreach to
the gay community which also sounds reasonable.

Ann Ardolino has stopped posting how howard and bob sisko ripped her
off and gave her ibogaine in a hotel in nyc. I don’t think she’s ever
managed to sign onto the ibogaine list maybe because patrick lost her
subscription 😉 she didn’t have any trouble signing up to drugwar on
Mindvox.

The last part of your message doesn’t make any sense, you made it sound
like you used ibogaine to beat your meth problem in that NY Post
article Dana.

Everybody knows your favorite drug is pot not ibogaine, I don’t think
there is any confusion 🙂

How’s your daughter’s cyst?

.:vector:.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from

chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able
to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about it
as
anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The
point is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his
paper. And Greg just told me they might print an article on ibogaine,

one not done by Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV
forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New
Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more

fluid, all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the
years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors
and
reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better
to
leave them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who,
willfully ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d
already
know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees —

that Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving

across a broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a
miracle cure, because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND
stimulants).  HE said that the one organized group that could get
Ibogaine through the bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they
did
with the AIDS drugs) shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option.
Basically, he doesn’t want to tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite
the irony of Peter Staley voting to stop development of ibogaine in
1994, and then proceeding to get strung out on crystal and
contracting
new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to

expect to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is

complicated by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was
trying to blackmail Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated
by
Ardolino and a few other people, but it was enough to make a big
swath
of people here skeptical. This isn’t impossible to change, but it
takes
effort, both by providers and by activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the
way
they are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list
gotten Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in
1989, I realized that it might not help my case for critics to be
able
to say (a la Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his
favorite drug.” But times have changed,  and now I have a genuine
medical need to do it. (A gram and a half of indra got rid of my
daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I
think that will work better for this purpose. I just don’t think the
splitting of skull is needful. Already had my religious experience.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: Vioxx Recalled
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:00:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2371712&nav=23KuRVCO

If you use Vioxx to help ease the pain of arthritis, you better start shopping around for new drug. Merck, the maker of Vioxx is voluntarily pulling the popular drug off the shelves because new research finds an increased risk of heart attack and stroke…..

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 6:35:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about it as anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The point is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his paper. And Greg just told me they might print an article on ibogaine, one not done by Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more fluid, all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors and reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better to leave them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who, willfully ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d already know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees — that Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving across a broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a miracle cure, because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND stimulants).  HE said that the one organized group that could get Ibogaine through the bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they did with the AIDS drugs) shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option. Basically, he doesn’t want to tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite the irony of Peter Staley voting to stop development of ibogaine in 1994, and then proceeding to get strung out on crystal and contracting new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?
Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to expect to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is complicated by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was trying to blackmail Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated by Ardolino and a few other people, but it was enough to make a big swath of people here skeptical. This isn’t impossible to change, but it takes effort, both by providers and by activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the way they are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list gotten Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in 1989, I realized that it might not help my case for critics to be able to say (a la Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his favorite drug.” But times have changed,  and now I have a genuine medical need to do it. (A gram and a half of indra got rid of my daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I think that will work better for this purpose. I just don’t think the splitting of skull is needful. Already had my religious experience.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 5:19:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to clarify: my comments were in NO way a dig at Dana, but rather the Schindler’s List dude…

Sorry for any misunderstanding,

Julie

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
>Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
>KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
>such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
>LIKE AN SSRI.

Well, they are both serotonin agonists in a general sense, but that’s
where the similarity ends…

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Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com – Register online to vote today!

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: To Doc Tom -Who Is I?
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:59:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie:

Hello!  I’m sorry that my post has caused you distress and I will answer
you as simply as I can. You are concerned that you are too limited in your
understanding of cause and effect to benefit from Ibogaine.
All I can offer is my opinion here, do ask others, and intellect is what
we have to work with, via these mousy words and keyboards. I’m glad we
have every bit of it we do have.

Cause and effect is a recurrent theme in many of the Ibogaine images and
visions I experienced. This was perhaps because this plant spirit felt I
needed to figure it out better for me. Self reflection and understanding
of your own behavior, and others in a non-judgemental and compassionate
light would be what I found from my times with Ibogaine. If you are
considering the use of the Eye to overcome or understand your present
behaviors, addictions, and habits, I congratulate you on directing toward
the best natural medical way to do that of which I am aware. You shouldn’t
worry about it or dread it.

As for my images and phrases, did you follow Patrick’s definition of
Mindvox recently? I loved his eclectic cross connected rant that described
so much of where he has been and what he has learned. Puzzle through that
with a dictionary and great ideas and connections will open to you.

My experience with ibo was written and is posted on the fine
“Ibeginagain.org” web site at the following page:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/experiences/my_space_shuttle.shtml

That same site, up one level, has a list of a couple dozen other
testimonials that will present this experience from many viewpoints other
than my own. I ask that you read those and examine the situation from
other styles of speech and perception than merely mine. That site and
Howard’s are both very extensive selections of all sorts of information
about the Eye. It is a blessing to have their work so available and well
presented.

OK, cosmic chicken farm? Perhaps in your nursing experience the emotions
of despair and depression are observed within patterns of substance use
and abuse, or the range of normal human feelings. Human history, for some
who have studied it, has been felt to be engineered and designed for the
many to enrich and empower the few. I have been a seeker and student of my
world for 3 and a half decades. The analogy between modern life and that
in a well run chicken farm, has become too clear to me, and I presumed
that many other list members could catch the analogy. No offense, not
everyone on a chicken farm is a chicken, just most of the production. When
I notice how the Bush administration has marched the world to Iraq and
donates the youth of America to a murderous criminal occupation to grab
oil, the chicks being shoveled down the ramps in a chicken farm just hits
me with the analogy. I doubt if the chickens feel involved in a democracy
either.

Now Callie, none of this is about Ibogaine, per se. Inform yourself and
make the moves that will be best for you. Don’t let my obscure words and
comments influence you away from the best decisions and actions you need
to take. I have followed your posts for a couple months and you are
incredibly supportive and kind toward everyone with any problem. A true
caregiver.

What I was trying to provoke as a conversation among us was some
understanding of the effects, the feelings, and the experience of what
Ibogaine is. I called it the Undrug, which confused and aggravated some
readers. With a broad enough definition of drug, that is indeed nonsense.
Even our thought is defined with biochemistry and mineral/nutrient
interactions, maybe even higher emotions like love and sympathy are mere
tidepools of serotonin, dopamine, and serine in little sacred nerve plexi
within our brains. I surely don’t know.

You think I’m too intellectual? I wouldn’t push us into the PDR or some
medical school physiology here, although all your concerns about Methadone
and Ibogaine have related scientific information there. I noticed how the
AIDS -hype guy, Vigilius, seemed to gag everyone with that.  I enjoyed his
links and found them valuable, but it was way too dense and off point for
this list. I think only Sara caught that a complete parallel could be made
between the social engineering of a pseudo disease and the control agenda
behind the wicked war on Drug(user)s.

Anyway, thanks for your questions. If you don’t get my language, like my
symbols or prefer my movies, that’s just fine with me, I do. It’s a really
big group of very smart and interesting people on this list, and I’m glad
you are here to add to the diversity and beauty of opinions. I’ll post
more about who I am and wherefore I cometh elsewhere than this post. Good
luck in your important decisions and actions, whatever they may be.

Dr. Tom

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:31:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

Well, they are both serotonin agonists in a general sense, but that’s
where the similarity ends…

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:28:17 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

That was based on his cursory examination of the OASAS website and a few other sources. He also seemed really angry that we were saying it had multiple mechanisms of action. And his entire argument was based on authority– “GMHC had a commission that examined this. and they say there’s no known medication, approved or experimental, that can interrupt crystal meth dependency.” Ergo, there CAN BE no such thing as ibogaine. Which I suspect would be effective for at least one out of three speedfreaks–not to mention the potential for low-dose substitution therapy, which has enjoyed some success with crack, I believe.

He was really pretty hostile. I’m not certain he would even like to see gay addicts or HIV positive people be told about Ibogaine at all. I suggest an email campaign aimed at GAY CITY NEWS, to educate Schindler and Osborne as to their responsibility for blocking access to the treatment scene that does exist for their community. Osborne’s address is: duncanto@aol.com

Dana/cnw

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:20:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for sharing Preston! Love the tatoo!
V has gorgeous green eyes!
You spoke of Matrix in your other post. I just really did not like the movie. I appreciate you trying to explain it. I understood it but did not like it. Just not my kind of picture show!
Toodles, Callie

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] MAPS Dance at Alex Grey’s loft Friday Nite; SSDP regional Conf. Sat @ Columbia
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:00:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Three Big Events this Weekend!

Friday, Oct 1,  10 PM: Benefit Dance for Ric Doblin’s
Multi-disciplinary Association for Paychedelic Studies (MAPS) at Alex
Gray’s Loft, 540 W. 27th St (4th Floor).

Saturday, Oct 2, 11 AM to 5 PM:  “LOCKED UP!” –Regional Students for
a Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP) Conference, a series of panels and
workshops on Dropping the Rock featuring Ibogaine Friend Assemblyman
Jeff Aubrey  at Lerner Hall, B’way & 115th, the Satow Room on the 5th
Floor.

Sunday, Oct. 3, 6 PM: Cures not Wars Meeting @ 9 Bleecker St.
followed by a Road Trip to Washington, D.C. to do an Ibogaine info
zap at Kerry H.Q. at MacPherson Square from 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM
Monday Oct. 4 and the Americans for Safe Access (ASA) medical
marijuana protests Tuesday Oct 5th. Local housing available. Call
212-677-4899 for details.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] LONG TRIP FOR PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS
Date: September 30, 2004 at 3:31:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LONG TRIP FOR PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS
By Kristen Philipkoski
Wired
September 27, 2004

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of
persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help
people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute <http://www.heffter.org/>, the
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
<http://www.maps.org/>
and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug Administration to
approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics. The movement
seems
to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the FDA and the Drug
Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to three clinical
trials
testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and several more are on
deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they
were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’
hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it,
and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder
of the Heffter Research Institute, a scientific organization that
organizes
and funds trials involving psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than
the one
medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the
National Institute on Drug Abuse <http://www.nida.nih.gov/> and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow
the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the
approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president
of
MAPS. The roadblock with marijuana has centered on supply. A
government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana the
government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is
decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public
policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government — led to the
launch of
the first FDA-approved clinical trial testing MDMA as a therapy (in
this
case for post-traumatic stress disorder) since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in
almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital,
presented his
proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists
and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are
exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner
who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches, which are rare but
brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had
never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and
skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would
have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain;
the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing
on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually break a
cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement.
He now runs clusterbusters.com <http://www.clusterbusters.com>, where
he
communicates with about 200 other cluster-headache victims who have
tried
psilocybin to relieve their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in
the
form of questionnaires, which Halpern can present to Harvard’s
institutional
review board.

Studies starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results
treating
cluster and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold
decide to
try a psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders
including depression, alcoholism and addiction to other drugs like
heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA on his
patients in the early ’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first
synthesized by Merck in 1912) along with Alexander Shulgin, who became
a
cult figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife,
Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest
body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands
for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone
of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug,
and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1 drug, the highest level of illegal
drug
in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing ecstasy,
including
doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer stopped prescribing
it
for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of
psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had
ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because
it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year
later,
the researchers retracted the study because they discovered they had
accidentally used methamphetamine instead of ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and
DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA
Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead to
perform a
study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients. He got
permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy
volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research
in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When
after
several years neither the FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed
his
proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it
had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work
with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients
out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the
study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which
began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these
compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters
need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can
be
used safely and effectively.”

————
Thanks
NHNE News List

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 2:41:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 11:09:38 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to
come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me
to
benefit. >>

Dear Callie,

I have not yet met anyone who is too limited in insight of cause and effect
to benefit from ibogaine.  As a Practical Nurse you have to undestand cause and
effect.  As a drug user you have to understand cause and effect.  The insight
you need is yours, not someone else’s.

Howard

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:51:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Love your tats Preston 🙂 You got patrick’s purple
dragon tattooed on yourself 🙂 I think its working
🙂 🙂 🙂

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken
last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls
drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our
families, not including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go
around). Two are of my newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original
picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the
Influence, but only the title is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a
great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:50:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world 😉

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter. This
is going to help what? Who is going to listen to this.
Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and
that all it is is
an SSRI like wellbutrin.

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT
ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:03:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,
I’m so happy that you’re feeling more positive! 🙂 It really helps to keep busy. I’m glad you had a good cry and let it all out.  See how many people luv you?  And it is a kind of love.  We’re here to hold your hand-can you feel it?
LOL Hannah 🙂

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)

Hi list,

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being there for me a couple of days ago.  The feeling of support from all over the US and the world is really almost overwhelming.  Today I thought, “all these people are pulling for me, it sure is time that I started pulling for me.”  Then I cried. But a good cry.

I am getting a full retreatment next week, and then will work much more intensively on aftercare than last time.  One part of my aftercare I know will help is educating the gay community on ibogaine. (thanks Dana.:)

I have said it before, this group fucking rocks!

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:59:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)

Hi list,

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being there for me a couple of days ago.  The feeling of support from all over the US and the world is really almost overwhelming.  Today I thought, “all these people are pulling for me, it sure is time that I started pulling for me.”  Then I cried. But a good cry.

I am getting a full retreatment next week, and then will work much more intensively on aftercare than last time.  One part of my aftercare I know will help is educating the gay community on ibogaine. (thanks Dana.:)

I have said it before, this group fucking rocks!

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:24:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and
that all it is is
an SSRI like wellbutrin.

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:19:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

I love your tattoo(s)…Oh, and by the way, V is very
cute!

Julie

_______________________________
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Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Matrix
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:17:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree, Preston- I loved the first Matrix movie.  The
next two, in my humble opinion, were sub-rate garbage.
Too Hollywood.

I loved the whole ‘Know Thyself’ theme too…The movie
blew my mind on many levels, in fact…’Residual
Self-Image’; ‘there is no spoon’…Oh my god, it was
loaded with gems…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:29:38 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: greglake@eden.rutgers.edu
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Atten: Sean, Preston:

Gay City News has agreed to print the following letter. It’s significance is that the publisher, Paul Schindler, is very involved with the forums, having moderated the one that Alan Clear of HRC criticized for hosting an appearance by the DEA. Schindler’s  lead writer, Duncan Osborn (a member of ACT UP when it voted 23 to 21 to discontinue NIDA clinical trials of Ibogaine) has taken the position  that we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and that all it is is  an SSRI like wellbutrin. (He was also rude on the phone to Dr. Ken Alper.)

The forum organizers, Dan Carlson and Bruce Kellerman, take the position that they’re not about medications development, which was good enough for AIDS, but not for addicts. Their response to crystal meth: turn in a friend to the DEA, so they can turn in their friends. It’s the only way they can “get help.”

Letter to the Gay City News:

As much as I appreciate Duncan Osborne’s reporting, your continuing
series on Dan Kellerhouse and Dan Carlson seems to be extremely biased
in favor of these two non-credentialed “experts”.  As an AIDS activist
and long-time survivor, I question why you feature these two
profiteers while ignoring those of us who have worked in the trenches
here in NYC.  In the four years that I have been observing and
participating in the now-defunct Mayor’s Office of AIDS Policy and
Coordination (MOAPC) I have never seen these two individuals at any of
the Alcohol and Other Drugs workgroup, the Social Services workgroup
or the Health workgroup – yet they are able to mislead Harvey
Fierstein and Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS into working with
them.  They have no 501c-3 status or medical training that I know of.
Why the unending coverage?  Just wondering.

–Sincerely,
********************************
Greg Lake
********************************
cc: file

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:27:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our families, not including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go around). Two are of my newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the Influence, but only the title is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (way ot) Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:49:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The
Matrix’.<

There are some incredibly deep moments in the Matrix Callie, just to let you
know.
When Morpheus takes Neo to the simulation Matrix, to show him how to
operate inside the program, he tells Neo that “everyone you see is a
potential enemy. These people are still asleep, still plugged into the
Matrix and will fight as hard as they can against waking. They don’t want to
know,” or something along these lines. (I’m loosely paraphrasing here.) I
was strongly reminded of our current modern situation, which I think was the
point of the writers in my humble opinion, where our system is the Matrix,
and most people simply don’t want to know, do not want to wake up to what’s
happening, the murderous wars (including the one on some Drugs and User)
based on lies, the corporate and government criminality, the Sept. 11
attacks and subsequent coverup(s), etc, etc.
That film is full of amazing stuff like this, little flashes of
brilliance all the way through it. I loved the first film. The last one I
didn’t at all like. I was bored silly by it, but was on a lot more
painkillers too, so was having trouble staying awake to watch it- which
might have meant it was really boring, or I would have been bored by
anything in that condition. I don’t know which it was because I’ve been on
lots of painkillers for a long time and am used to staying up on them, even
at the amounts I was doing, so I suspect it wasn’t that great a flick for me
anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)

Hi, I am Callie, a 45 year old Practical Nurse Methadone Maintenance patient
since 1997.
I am hoping to experience Ibogaine before the year is over.
I love reading all the colorful, descriptive personal insights into Ibogaine
but they are your personal insights as Ibogaine relates to you and probably
some insights shared with you by patients and other Ibonauts.
You write from a very intellectual point of view.(IMHO)
Personally, I have a difficult time understanding what you are saying at
all! I am sure it is just me. I do not understand all the symbolism (occult,
cryptomasonic???!!!)
And, why do you refer to life as a cosmic chicken farm? Why do you call
Ibogaine a seventh dimensional
plant ally? What is a mongo level of suffering?
You say, ” It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve got with the
Eye. The Undrug.” I am positive That I do not ‘get’ it.
One more question please. What does this mean? “The human spirit is well
into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these social trends of
chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer plagues to
criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment, and the
hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.” mean in regular, everyday language?
Dr. Tom, I am not trying to be smart ass. I bet you think I am! I just
really don’t understand what you are saying.
I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The
Matrix’.
The one thing you said that I understood, “None of us can or should make
other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause and
effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks for all on
this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.”

I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to
come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me
to benefit.
Sincerely,
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] consciousness and god
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:19:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
This isn’t exactly on topic, but considering that our consciousness is
our own, and that the federal government tells us what we are and are not
“allowed” to ingest in hopes of exploring or altering or maintaining that
consciousness, I think this is on topic, somewhat. Cognitive liberty is a
very important aspect of the War on Some Drugs and Users, although I suspect
that many are loath to bring it up because it sounds somewhat “out there,”
too brainy one might say. It doesn’t pertain to taxes and money and
corruption and crime and prisons and politics really- it’s much less
tangible than all that, and scares off some folk I think. But personally I
do agree with the folks at the Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics,
Richard Glen Boire (a contributor to UTI btw, on just this topic
coincidentally enough), that our minds are our most personal, sacred
possession and we must have the right to alter our thoughts as we will, so
long as we are not hurting others. I know I’m pretty much preaching to the
choir here, so I’ll leave it at this and let you get on to reading this very
interesting article.
If you’d like to know more about the CCLE, please visit:

keeping freedom in mind

Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <CERJ@igc.org>
To: <CERJ@igc.org>
Cc: “Peter Russell” <pete@elfrock.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:43 PM
Subject: A Sleep of Prisoners

Peter Russell is a physicist and psychologist by training.  His primary
interest is the exploration and development of the human mind, and their
application to the world today.  He is the author of several books,
including The Global Brain Awakens, The White Hole in Time, and The Creative
Manager.

http://www.swcp.com/~hswift/swc/Winter99/russell9902.htm

Science, Consciousness
and (Dare I Say It?) God
by Peter Russell

[Web site editor:  This was originally a transcription of the keynote
presentation at the Science and Consciousness conference held in
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA, in April 1999.  The transcription has been
reviewed and modified slightly by the author, to the following result.]

Science and consciousness has at last come of age.  My title indicates
that I believe that’s where the science of consciousness is eventually going
to lead. Paul Davies has written that science has looked out to the edges of
the universe to deep space, to deep time — to the beginning of the
universe, and to deep structure — to the basic level of the quantum.  And
science is proud to proclaim that they have found no need or place for God.
The universe has worked perfectly well without it.  So science has nicely
got rid of God — thank you very much.  But what they forgot about was the
area of deep mind.  I don’t think any great spiritual teacher ever wrote God
would be found out there at the edge of the universe.  Science is now taking
us into the study of consciousness, the area of deep mind.  We are only just
beginning at the moment.  Eventually when we really get into deep mind — as
we have gone into deep space, deep time, and deep matter — then we will
find out what !
the gr
eat spiritual teachers have been talking about.

I think that science is going to find itself unwittingly having to explore
the very topic it has so strenuously avoided for centuries.  When you look
out into deep space, deep time, and deep structure, you don’t find
consciousness either.  Consciousness is a HUGE problem for science.  And yet
it is the one thing that none of us can deny.  We are conscious; we have
experiences.  You are not biological robots, all dark inside.  You all
experience being in this room.  We may be having different experiences, we
may doubt our experiences, but we cannot doubt that we are experiencing
beings, and yet there is nothing in the western scientific world view that
predicts that we or any other sentient beings should actually have
experiences.  Given that we do, there is no way of accounting for it.
Christian deQuincy calls it the paradox of consciousness.  He says
scientists are walking around every day with the fact of their own
consciousness, staring them in the face, and with absolut!
ely no
way of explaining this.

David Chalmers, philosophy professor in Santa Cruz, calls this the HARD
problem of science.  The easy problems — and they are not easy at all, and
may take another 50 years to work them out — are how the brain functions.
After doing all that, the really hard problem is how something as
unconscious as matter can give rise to something as immaterial as
consciousness.  That’s the problem.  He calls it the hard problem; I call it
the impossible problem — within the current world view of science.  As we
explore consciousness, we are going to have to make a radical revision of
the whole world view of science, a new paradigm.  But I think it is deeper
than that — a ‘super paradigm’.  An example of a paradigm is the revolution
of Copernicus.  Then, everyone believed the earth was still and the stars
revolved around it.  It was obvious.  All you had to do was look out at the
sky.  And the religion and science of the day reinforced it.  But there was
a problem with that, as Thoma!
s Kuhn
has written about.  The planets did not move as expected, but wandered
about.  This required complicated theories to explain that.  And then five
hundred years ago, Copernicus said, “Look, the earth is spinning around”.
And of course we all know the church didn’t like it.  In fact his book
wasn’t published until his death, as he knew the church would stomp on him.
Later, Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that Copernicus was
right.  But the church put him under house arrest for the rest of his life
to keep him from talking about this heresy.  Now, after Newton worked out
the details 150 years later, we believe it.  And we had a new model, a new
paradigm.

I think the same thing is going to happen in science.  Paradigms pertain
to a particular science, and this is even deeper.  A paradigm within a
paradigm is a ‘super paradigm’, such as is the current world view of space,
time and matter.  Here, the anomaly in the current view is consciousness
itself.  As I said before, consciousness is absolutely undeniable, and also
completely inexplicable.  So what has happened with consciousness is what
Kuhn predicted.  The first thing science did was ignore it — for good
reasons, they thought.  You can’t measure it, so it doesn’t fit into the
methods of science.  Secondly, science has wanted to be objective, getting
rid of something as variable as mind.  It has gone for objective truth,
independent of consciousness.  And lastly, the universe works perfectly well
without it.  So why bother?

But things have changed this century; as quantum physics seems to have
shown that consciousness does actually affect the reality we observe.  There
are a lot of discoveries in medicine — the effect of attention, the effect
of consciousness of the healing of persons, even the remote healing of
persons.  There is all the research on the biology of the brain.  But what
science is doing at the moment is trying to fit the anomaly into the old
paradigm.  Francis Crick thinks it has to do with brain chemistry.  Others
think it has to do with chaos and complexity theory.  Lots of interesting
theories.  But how does that, whatever it is, give rise to experience?  But
that’s where science is now: after ignoring it, they try to fit it into the
current model.  Recently Richard Dawkins, of ‘selfish gene’ ideas, was
talking in London and said, “I cannot explain consciousness.  No scientist I
know of can explain consciousness.  However, I have no doubt that we
eventually will”.  That’s wh!
ere sc
ience is today.

I think eventually science will be forced to adopt a completely different
‘super paradigm’; one where consciousness is as fundamental as space, time,
and matter, maybe even more fundamental.  Not something that rises out of
space, time, and matter, but as fundamental.  This idea about consciousness
is not a new idea, you find it in many eastern philosophies, western
philosophies, many spiritual teachings.  But science isn’t interested in
spiritual teachings, as it knows it is in the realm of space, time and
matter.  And it is interesting that Copernicus’ ideas were not new.  The
Greeks had it much earlier, but no one was interested, as it didn’t fit with
daily experience.

What do I mean by consciousness?  We use the word consciousness many
different ways in our culture, and it leads to a lot of confusion.  It’s a
bit like the Eskimos have many words for snow.  We have only snow or sleet.
If you go to Sanskrit, they have 10, 20 words for different subtle aspects
of the mind.  Someone says human beings are the only ones with
consciousness, but what they probably mean is that we have
self-consciousness.  But a dog surely has experience — it isn’t a
biological robot.  If I watch a dog, I think it has experience.  If we
didn’t think so, we wouldn’t need to give them anesthetics during
operations.  We’d say all that yelping and whining is just a biological
reflex — don’t worry.  We think they feel pain.  I’m not thinking of
political or environmental consciousness — what I mean by consciousness is
the *faculty* of consciousness.  I think it goes all the way down through
creation — dogs, cats, dolphins, why not birds … when do you stop?  They!
are n
ot biological robots.  Maybe the experience gets much less rich than our
experience.  The classic view is that it goes down as far as nervous
systems, so maybe an amoeba wouldn’t have experience, maybe worms would, but
there is something going on.  The old super-paradigm of space, time, and
matter says that consciousness needs something to emerge from.  But if we
change to the idea of consciousness being universal, then maybe a nervous
system is merely a particular amplifier of experience, or helps the
experiences to take shape.  I think consciousness goes all the way down to
simple cells — even to pure, simple atoms.  In philosophy, this is called
panpsychism.  In Greek, “pan” means all.  The objection to this is that
rocks must have experience, but it doesn’t mean that at all.  Maybe what
goes on in a cell is one billionth of that of ours, and that of a rock one
billionth of that.

If we go all the way down, we come to the photon, one of the fundamental
levels of existence.  What fascinates me is the parallels between light in
the physical world, and consciousness.  We talk of consciousness as light,
and I don’t think it is accidental.  We talk of the Inner Light, the light
of consciousness, and the light with which are all born into the world, etc.
We talk about that.  And light is a big anomaly in physics.  Light moves at
the same speed relative to the observer.  That’s where Einstein’s relativity
came from.  No matter how fast you go, light will overtake you and go
186,000 miles/sec faster.  Even if you accelerated yourself to 185,999
miles/sec, it would go 186,000 miles/sec faster, not 1 mile/sec faster.
Nobody could explain this, and it goes completely against common sense.
They have actually flown clocks around the world, and they slow down, by
maybe a billionth of second.  You have heard that nothing can go as fast as
light, because, if it ha!
s mass
, the mass would go to infinity and it would take more than all the energy
in the universe to get it going.

But light has no mass, so it goes with the speed of light, by definition.
And from the point of view of light itself, time has stopped, and distance
has shrunk to zero.  So all light knows is now.  It doesn’t experience time
and space as we do.  Light, somehow, lies beyond the space, time matter
world, not part of the material world.  What the mystics have said about the
Inner Light, is that time and space disappears when you get down to the deep
levels, with a totally silent mind.  Saint Augustine said, “He that knows
the truth, knows what this light is and that it is eternity”.  And Emerson
said, “time and space are but the physiological colors the eye makes, the
soul is light”.  So I think there is more to this than verbal parallels.
What it seems to me, my speculation is that somehow as the universe
manifests, it is first light, and the first manifestation of consciousness
is also light.

It is not only the mystics that say about nature of the self.  My favorite
is the physicist Schroedinger, who said, ” What is this I?  You will, on
close introspection, find that what you really mean by “I” is the ground
stuff upon which all experiences and memories are collected”.  What both the
mystics and science is pointing towards is the faculty of consciousness.
But what the mystics say — and that’s where it gets interesting — is that
pure consciousness is also God!  That’s where you have the experience of
God.  If you say “I am God”, in most cultures you get lynched.  The German
mystic Meister Eckhart was fond of saying “I am God” or “I and “God are
One”.  And the Vatican sent a messenger to say “Nope, you can’t say that.
You can say you have the experience of God but not that you are God, as God
is separate.”  Ram Das tells about visiting his brother in a mental
institution and his brother asked, “Why is it that you go about the world
saying you are God, and peop!
le buy
your books, and worship you, and I say “I am God”, and they stick me in
here?”  And he said, ” I say everyone else is God, and that’s the
difference.”

The mystics are not talking about what we mean by “I”, the individual “I”.
In Sanskrit they talk of different levels of “I-ness”, not the arrogating
ego who takes on the qualities, like I am Peter Russell, I am British, I am
male, I think these thoughts, etc., etc.”  That’s the most superficial I.
Then below that is what’s called Atman, which is the universal
consciousness, and below that is Brahmin, which is best translated as all
that is — the whole.  And the statement “I am God” is “Atman is Brahmin”.
So what they are really saying is that this fundamental level of
consciousness is what we mean by God; that which is your deepest level of
consciousness.  And they say that it is a state of union, a condition of
identity with the divine.  Here is a Sufi mystic, “When thou knowest thine
own existence, then thou knowest God”.  And Ramana Maharshi, “I Am is the
name of God.  God is none other than the self”.  So I think this is what
science is unwittingly getting into, thou!
gh it
doesn’t think so.  It thinks it is studying about how consciousness arises
out of space, time, and matter.

The word spiritual comes from “spiritus” in Latin, which means air, vapor,
wind, breath.  What is common among all those meanings is they are all
intangible — they can’t be seen and touched, and are unmeasurable.  What
science has done is study the things that which can be seen, and touched;
the material world.  The spiritual traditions have been on a parallel
course, examining the intangible world of the mind — the consciousness —
and just as science has come to its own laws and discoveries, and so has the
spiritual traditions, finding discoveries about the functioning of the mind.
And we can take this a step farther.  Science has given us technologies to
improve the quality of life, greater comforts.  And the spiritual traditions
have given us the same, many practices improving the quality of life, giving
us greater inner freedom so we can be much clearer in our thoughts, with
more ability to achieve our potential.  We can trace consciousness way back
to where humans f!
irst b
ecame aware of our consciousness.  As soon as we became aware of that, we
wondered about other beings — the bears, the eagles, and perhaps the trees.
These were the beginnings of religions, projecting a human consciousness.
If a boulder rolled down and smashed their house, they perhaps believed the
mountain was angry, and should be appeased.  But these all were about
consciousness.  And as time moved on, these became abstracted and
generalized into deities.

I think just as science has moved through paradigms, so has religion. The
first paradigm was animism, the second was the polytheistic religions.  The
Hindus had a total of somewhere around 3,300 different deities in a
hierarchical structure.  In the Greek system they had twelve major deities.
In the early European traditions you had four basic deities, which we still
have in the days of the week.  Wednesday was Woden’s day, Thursday is Thor’s
day.  Then there is Sun’s day and the Moon’s day.  But there still was the
projection of human consciousness onto the deities.  Then the fourth
paradigm was the atheistic religions, which sounds like an oxymoron.  By
this, I’m talking about things like Buddhism, Jainism in India,
Confucianism, Taoism.  They said lets get rid of all these deities and
sacrifices.  It is actually about you, it’s about dealing with your own
mind, your own consciousness, about the path to liberation.  And the fifth
religious paradigm has sort of been there !
all al
ong, but well underneath, and that is called pantheism, meaning God is in
all.  That is what a lot of the great mystics have said.  God isn’t out
there separate, sitting on top of the mountain, as the Greeks had it, or up
in the sky.  If God is in all in everything, it is also in the essence of
consciousness.  Jesus was a pantheist but you wouldn’t get it normally from
reading the gospels.  He said God and “I are one”, which is usually
translated as ‘I, this person, am God’.  But go back to the Gospel of St
Thomas (which didn’t get modified by the conference of Constantinople in the
third century when there was this big debate about was Jesus a man who
discovered God, or a man sent by God, and it was decided he was actually the
son of God, and all the gospels were translated in that way).  In the Gospel
of St. Thomas, Jesus was asked “Are you God?”  And he said “Yes, and so are
you, and so is this rock”, the pantheistic view.  Einstein was probably a
pantheist — a lot of en!
vironm
entalists are pantheists.  It’s that view that God is in all.  And if it
is, it is in the essence of our own consciousness.

And I think science is moving in that direction, too.  If what the mystic
says is true, that at the deepest level of consciousness, when you get down
to those deep levels, you begin to understand, to experience, what is meant
by God, and the deepest level is God.  Then the shifting of science to
consciousness-is-in-all things becomes pantheism.  So I think that when
science gets down to deep mind, there actually will be a real synthesis of
science and religion.  The last and real great frontier is the deep,
profound understanding of deep mind, is human consciousness, is inner space,
and we are just in the very, very beginning.  And when we do, we will be
able to see that synthesis we have been waiting so long for.  And now is the
time we can actually begin to understand what the great spiritual teachers
have said.  In the past, you had only what the benefit of your culture had
to say.  Now we can have what all the cultures have to say about
consciousness.  And this will be i!
n the
language of our time, that of reason, and understanding.  And finally as
the great teachers have said is, “practice it”.  In that sense the real
exploration of consciousness is not thinking about it, analyzing.  What they
have all said is “do it”.  The real laboratory for the exploration of
consciousness is inside your own mind.

In that sense, each of has our own laboratory, each doing our own
exploration, each coming to our own conclusions, sharing this with others,
learning from each other.  Which is the process of science. It may not fit
the current paradigm, which is having hypotheses, conducting experiments,
and comparing the results with others, doing new experiments.  That’s what
we are all doing today, drawing our own conclusions and sharing and learning
from others, what works in terms of meditation, etc.  Just look in any
bookstore.  You find thousands of books, people sharing with each other,
through many forms of media.  That’s what makes now really exciting, not
that we are reaching that understanding.  We are approaching that time when,
for the first time ever on the planet, we are reaching that time when we can
have an universal awakening, rather than just those fortunate individuals
and saints, sages and mystics who woken up.  This probably will come at a
time when we need it so much.

I finish with a poem, ‘A Sleep of Prisoners.  I think it sums it all up so
well.  It’s by Christopher Fry, from his play by that name, written in
poetic form at the end of the second World War.  I love it so much.

From Fry’s ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’:

The human heart can go the lengths of God.

Dark and cold we may be,
but this is no winter now.
The frozen misery of centuries
breaks, cracks, begins to move;
The thunder is the thunder of the floes,
The thaw, the flood, the upstart Spring.

Thank God our time is now,
when wrong comes up to face us,
everywhere, never to leave us,
till we take the longest stride of soul
we ever took.

Affairs are now soul-sized.
The enterprise is exploration into God.

Where are you making for?

It takes so many thousand years to wake,
but will you wake, for pity’s sake!
_ _ _

About the author of the above poem:

http://www.thelionspart.co.uk/projects/sleep.htm

Christopher Fry is 94 this year.   Undoubtedly one of England’s great 20th
Century verse dramatists, his wonderful plays are distinguished for their
rich language and profound comments on the human condition.

<…>

“We were talking even then, as we are talking, with greater instancy, now,
of the likelihood of war.  And I think we realized then, as we certainly now
believe, that progress is the growth of vision: the increased perception of
what makes for life and what makes for death.  I have tried — as you know,
not altogether successfully — to find a way for comedy to say something of
this, since comedy is an essential part of men’s understanding.

“In ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’, I have tried to make a more simple statement,
though in a complicated design where each of the four men is seen through
the sleeping thoughts of the others, and each, in his own dream, speaks as
at heart he is, not as he believes himself to be.  In the later part of
Corporal Adam’s dream, the dream changes to a state of thought entered into
by all the sleeping men, as though, sharing their prison life, they shared,
for a few moments of the night, their sleeping life also.”

[From an open letter to Robert Gittings from Christopher Fry, 1951.]

In his early days, Christopher Fry was a schoolmaster, actor and theatre
director.  He first came to prominence with a one-act jeu d’esprit, ‘A
Phoenix Too Frequent’, and a religious play about St. Cuthman entitled ‘A
Boy with a Cart’ (1937).  In 1948 he wrote ‘Thor, with Angels’ (Canterbury
Festival), and in 1950 ‘The Firstborn’, with Alec Clunes as Moses.  It was,
however, with the production, first at the Arts, and later at the Globe
Theatre, in 1949, of ‘The Lady’s Not For Burning’ that Fry sprang into the
limelight, with John Gielgud heading a distinguished cast.  His next play,
written for Laurence Olivier, was ‘Venus Observed’ (1950), and in the same
year he translated Anouilh’s L’Invitation au Chateau as ‘Ring Around the
Moon’, with Paul Scofield in the dual role of the twin hero and villain.  In
1954, Edith Evans starred in ‘The Dark is Light Enough’.  In 1955, Fry then
translated ‘The Lark’, about Joan of Arc, and ‘Curtmantle’, about Henry II
and Beckett, had its f!
irst p
roduction.  ‘A Yard the Sun’ was performed at Nottingham in 1970.  In 1986
he wrote ‘One Thing More, or Caedmon Construed’ and in 1999 a millennium
play for his old school in Bedford, ‘A Ringing of Bells’.

With ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’ (1951), Fry reverted to his earlier biblical
vein.  It  debuted at St. Thomas, Regent Street, in 1951, and after a long
initial tour has frequently been revived.

==================================
CERJ@igc.org            wilmerding@earthlink.net
——————————————-
John Wilmerding, Convener and List Manager
Coalition for Equity-Restorative Justice (CERJ)
217 High Street, Brattleboro, VT, USA
ZIP: 05301-6073         Phone: 1-802-254-2826
CERJ was founded in New York in May, 1997.
——————————————-
“Work together to reinvent justice using methods
that are fair; that conserve, restore, and even
create harmony, equity and good will in society.”
——————————————-
To join (or leave) the CERJ email list, kindly send
me an email message at wilmerding@earthlink.net
or at cerj@igc.org.  I’ll need your first & last name,
your email address, and your state, province or
country of residence.  Thank you!  — John W.
==================================

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:51:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary wrote >The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told
me the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others,
the first step is to meet eboga oneself.  This makes a lot of sense to me.
That’s why I am here.<

One person comes leaping to mind, whose name will not be mentioned here, who
promotes ibogaine and treatment with ibogaine incessently, but has never
once tried it himself. He promotes the heck out of it (he doesn’t act as a
provider or facilitator though), speaking out about it in every instance he
can, talking about it, pushing it on politicians and addicts and treatment
providers and authors and reporters and just about anyone else breathing-
but he hasn’t ever done it himself.
Does this make his promotion any less valid? Or is it “ok” for him to be
doing so even having not tried it himself? I like the fact that he is so
positive even without trying it, that he has decided just from seeing and
speaking with many who have tried it and liked it for one (or more)
reason(s) or other(s) that it’s worth it to him to promote- but not to try
it himself. And to me, that’s cool.
Were he providing it, perhaps I’d feel differently, prefering that anyone
actually working with me giving me such a drug would actually have more
experience and knows exactly what s/he is talking about from experience.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?

Dear Dr. Tom,
As soon as I sent the post I realized that I didn’t introduce myself.
I have been on the forum for almost 2 years but only recently started to
post.  I am considering meeting eboga because I want to heal my emotions and
live a life with more awareness/joy.  I simply don’t know if this is the way
for me to go.
I am apprenticing in an ayurveda clinic and there are some patients who
seek herbs, masssage, and spiritual counseling for alcohol and/or drug
related challenges.  I see on a day to day basis how herbs heal and it makes
perfect sense to me that nature has a remedy for addiction/psychospiritual
conflict.
The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told me
the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others, the
first step is to meet eboga oneself.  This makes a lot of sense to me.
That’s why I am here.
I feel that it’s only right for me to let you know who is asking you
pointed and personal questions…
Yours truly,
Mary

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:26:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, I have had those same thoughts in my head about giving up something that sucks but seems to be working at least a little bit. I’ve been on and off of methadone since 1985. I think if it was going to allow me a much better life it would have happened by now. I want so much more out of life. I’ve coasted along long enough. I’ve been able to keep a job, and help raise my son, and I’ve played some pretty cool gigs. All of it about half way numb to what it should really feel like. Up until this point I probably couldn’t have handled much more reality. But being around this list and interacting with the people here has put me much more firmly on the ground. Now if you look at that, it looks nuts, how could this merry group of sideways thinking Ibonauts help anybody ground themeless in reality. I don’t know but it happened. If I had not been made to wait for my treatment I probably wouldn’t have been ready for it. Everything that has held me up and made me research more has educated me better and gotten me closer to the point I am in now. Scared shitless and wondering if I’m doing the right thing.LOL I’m kidding but I am apprehensive about this but somehow I know its exactly what I need to do. When I’m through to the other side I want to help spread the word. I won’t be stopped. Only the Ibogaine can change my mind now so I guess we’ll see. I want to thank everybody for the kind words of encouragement and the advise I have gotten. I plan on not looking at the ‘puter till after I have done this so light a candle Friday night and have a good weekend. I’ll see yall after the walls come down.       Randy     PS Callie, somehow I know its coming for you too, soon. You can do it. Be ready.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:08:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I am Callie, a 45 year old Practical Nurse Methadone Maintenance patient since 1997.
I am hoping to experience Ibogaine before the year is over.
I love reading all the colorful, descriptive personal insights into Ibogaine but they are your personal insights as Ibogaine relates to you and probably some insights shared with you by patients and other Ibonauts.
You write from a very intellectual point of view.(IMHO)
Personally, I have a difficult time understanding what you are saying at all! I am sure it is just me. I do not understand all the symbolism (occult, cryptomasonic???!!!)
And, why do you refer to life as a cosmic chicken farm? Why do you call Ibogaine a seventh dimensional
plant ally? What is a mongo level of suffering?
You say, ” It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve got with the Eye. The Undrug.” I am positive That I do not ‘get’ it.
One more question please. What does this mean? “The human spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment, and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.” mean in regular, everyday language?
Dr. Tom, I am not trying to be smart ass. I bet you think I am! I just really don’t understand what you are saying.
I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The Matrix’.
The one thing you said that I understood, “None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks for all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.”

I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me to benefit.
Sincerely,
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world – beautiful email
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:56:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 9:25:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

But, on the offchance that
it encounters even the slightest bit of water, it
unfurls its fronds, transforms from brown to green,
and is reborn.  It repeats this process literally
hundreds of times during its lifespan.

Hi Julie,

Nature is full of death and rebirth, isn’t it? Perhaps that is where the storied of reincarnation and resurrection originated.  From people watching natural cycles.

BTW Thanks for the purple light. Are you getting Phil Dickean with me?

Horselover Not So Fat.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:50:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

The mental cravings returned rather quickly for me last time.  I am told that I will receive a larger dose than last time for my retreatment…and then can look at boosters if needed later.

I think Howard could probably answer more fully the technical issues around the metabolites better than me.:)

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: I am really scared- (was-doin’ really shitty- What Is I)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/2004 10:41:31 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who took
> ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the results,
> openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
> from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling me

That is what I see too and I am damn glad you guys are shootin’ straight.
I really want to get off Methadone. I want to have a realistic sense of what I am getting myself into though when I go for my Ibogaine treatment.
Honestly, at this point I am damn scared. I have been relatively ‘normal’ on my 110 mgs of Methadone the past few years. I maintain. I have a LOT of responsibility at home and also expend a BUNCH of energy daily assisting my significant other. If I have an ‘off ‘ day, I can’t just lie down and hope I get to feeling better. I HAVE to keep on keeping on.
I am really afraid of what will happen when my ‘security blanket’ is taken away!
But, and it is a BIG but, I WANT TO BE CLEAN AND DRUG FREE AND NORMAL! I want to feel okay. Like I said before I am scared and I don’t know what to do!
I am praying about it. I am asking for guidance and for signs. I plan to discuss this all with my Methadone counselor tomorrow but I already know what she is going to say! You all probably do too.
I will let you know for sure tomorrow.
Anyhow, thanks Preston, Sean and Dr. Tom. Hell, thanks everybody…..you all make this list very helpful!
Callie

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world – beautiful email
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:24:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean,

That was a cool email…I’m glad to hear you’re doing
better.  On the topic of resurrection: Recently I
ordered some detox products from an herbalist in
Holland, and they sent me a bonus, free gift: a Rose
of Jericho.

This amazing plant can be dormant for months in the
desert, blowing to and fro on the breezes, dry and
brittle like a tumbleweed.  But, on the offchance that
it encounters even the slightest bit of water, it
unfurls its fronds, transforms from brown to green,
and is reborn.  It repeats this process literally
hundreds of times during its lifespan.

hugs, good vibes, and purple light

Julie from Toronto(the T dot O),

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:54:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

:

.  It was suggested to me, for example, that I amy consider low level boosters of ibogaine if opiate or cocaine craving returns as the ibo metabolites dissipate over time.  I am not going to refuse such help in the name of sort of spiritual improvement.  It’s just part of the act, part of the show, part of life.

Sean

Hello Sean,
Sounds like your feeling a liitle better,good to see.
I am curious as to your experiences with Ibogaine.When you say,’when the metabolites dissipate over time,,,the craving returns.

Can I ask,when the cravings came back,was there any physical withdrawals at all,I mean after the Ibo’ wore off did you get any physical symtems come back,or was it purley mental craving?

How much done were you on(if any) and how long did the Ibo’ stay in your system before you felt like using again?

Forgive me if I have asked you this before.

Also,was there anything that happened when you got the urge to use,emotionaly,like,,,,did anyone upset you,,ect?

Thanks,and with smiles; Jasen.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:26:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On a lighter note so to speak, as a teenager I loved mescaline.   I thought it was great headache cure, better than aspirin. I dosed almost daily.  Funny but I got a headache every day around 5:00 which could only be helped I thought by mesc at 7:00.  Ah, youth.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:22:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 12:09:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
> > healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
> the
> > attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
> > mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of
things,
> > I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga)

Hi,

Actually I am naturally disinclined toward this kind of dualism where basically the mind/ego are split off against the “real” which is usually called the spiritual realm.

In my non dualistic world view, mind and ego are just as real or unreal as everything else.  So often the spiritual is set off in some kind of cosmic opposition to the ego. The ego becomes the enemy so to speak, the source of suffering.

From my reading of Buddhism, for example, the ego per se is not the cause of suffering. Attachment is.  So by little by little dying to the phenomenal world (or having an NDE type experience like ibogaine sometimes offers) we learn to gradually use our attachments and see the truth that all is passing, all is changing, there is nothing to cling to. This includes the ego/mind itself of course, that does make the ego an adversary, just another illusion. Like everything else in our world.

I am greatly impressed with the spiritual thinkers who speak of healing at various levels.  Sometimes venting, griping, telling one’s story so to speak, is just what is needed to bring about a healing. To in some way deny feelings in order to feel spiritual is in my opinion a type of denial.

Finally on a purely physical note, because that level is real-unreal too, we do really have these chemicals and synapses, etc., in our heads which can cause wild fluctuation in mood.  It was suggested to me, for example, that I amy consider low level boosters of ibogaine if opiate or cocaine craving returns as the ibo metabolites dissipate over time.  I am not going to refuse such help in the name of sort of spiritual improvement.  It’s just part of the act, part of the show, part of life.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:13:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I wrote the subject line, Madonna’s eighties hit Material Girl was playing in my head. Anyway, I spent the day reading Beal’s book The Ibogaine Story, as well as book on healing called, “Entering the Ghost River.”

As someone who has hailed from the secular humanist strain of Unitarianism, it has been along time since I have been open to the Gnostic thread of Beal’s book. Also, I have been very Western scientific concerning healing in general.

However, I had a dream Monday night, the first night after my stopping using again which really struck me.  In the dream, I came upon a new church near my home. I walked in. It was clearly a Catholic church, the religion of my childhood. It was Easter, and the congregation was singing, “Christ is risen today, alleluia.”

Then I woke up. Now I am not turning to Christianity or anything. (really I’m not), but I do see significance in the resurrection theme as it relates to my current situation of getting clean again after spending time in the tomb of heroin and crack. (BTW I did overdose twice during my relapse and was brought back, so I was literally “resurrected” in one sense.:) Next week I am taking the sacrament of ibogaine. I know that my old skeptical secular humanist self would never bother making connection like this, so something is changing.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And BTW Allison, stay strong through those treatments for the Hep. Are using marijuana, I have heard it helps.

That’s all folks
Sean

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 6:43:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dr. Tom,
As soon as I sent the post I realized that I didn’t introduce myself.  I have been on the forum for almost 2 years but only recently started to post.  I am considering meeting eboga because I want to heal my emotions and live a life with more awareness/joy.  I simply don’t know if this is the way for me to go.
I am apprenticing in an ayurveda clinic and there are some patients who seek herbs, masssage, and spiritual counseling for alcohol and/or drug related challenges.  I see on a day to day basis how herbs heal and it makes perfect sense to me that nature has a remedy for addiction/psychospiritual conflict.
The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told me the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others, the first step is to meet eboga oneself.  This makes a lot of sense to me.  That’s why I am here.
I feel that it’s only right for me to let you know who is asking you pointed and personal questions…
Yours truly,
Mary

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 5:46:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon, I have mushroom tea, a sub- psychedelic dose is good enough to take the
depression, also in combination with vitamin B6 , B12.
Only, the people who come here like the full trip dose, especially
They don’t get them at home.

It is something I like to put my mind to it.

Sara.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon f. [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: woensdag 29 september 2004 18:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I
saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

What dosages are commonly used for those applications?

What I’m wondering is if they’re useful for these things in
sub-psychedelic doses…

cause if you have to take enough mushrooms to make you “trip” to say, cure
a headache, I can’t see that as being a particularly practical medicine.
But it would be very interesting to find out that they have useful effects
at sub-psychedelic doses.

thanx =)

j0n

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 5:45:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston and MindVox;

“…This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I
get what you’re saying here. I guess what I’m saying in this reply is
that I’m not sure what your point is Tom. Overall I think your note is
being positive but I’m not sure. Is it? I mean, at some points you sound
angry and others you sound loving so I’m not exactly sure what you’re
saying Tom is my point.”

I guess I am conflicted and in describing ibogaine I express anger and
love and uncertainty in my post, as they co-exist within me these days
about many social “realities”. Sorry if that confuses you or others. My
point was just that ibogaine seems to be an incredible, unique tool for
enabling self reflections and change in the lives of many who have tried
it, that I have learned from. In asking that we talk about  “what it is”
I seek comments from others on the list to further inform me about this
plant medicine.

Clearly there are positive joyous reasons to love our lives, and anger
responses, in me anyway, come with perceptions of all the anti-joy and
negative forces maintained in force against these positve, loving
possibilities. Personally, drug addiction isn’t one of the good guys in
“my” reality. So finding and experiencing a botanical medicine that
seems to be uniquely helpful with both addiction and self destructive
habitual behavior brought me to this list. The experiences of members
are interesting to me, and the comments from them were solicited by my not
altogether positive post.

I enjoyed your salute to the positive aspects in your life that you
listed, which might have been worth the annoyance of my confusing post.
I agree that telling you what you must “get” from Iboga would be an
arrogance that I wouldn’t appreciate either. Sorry you read it that way.
I don’t see my post as imposing my interpretation of reality on you,
tho. Even before any ibogaine insights, I know I couldn’t do that even
if I wanted to, which I don’t.

People on this list are sharing intimate details about what is tough or
painful or blocked in their life. I find the overall compassion ratio
among us refreshing and precious. In asking about uses and effects of
ibogaine, I want to hear what works for people with problems that I
don’t have, at this time.

I do have an agenda, in asking about “what is ibogaine?”. I hope that
the realities of those more experienced with these challenges or
experienced in ways I have not had to become, will share good stuff.
These ideas will improve my understanding in how to use the Eye more
wisely and appropriately with my clients, patients, and in my own life.
This seems to be the case.

If you got the impression that I wanted to impose an
interpretation upon you, please accept my sincere apologies.

I have observed some changes in your narrative writing, Preston, since
your sessions.  Maybe others can confirm or comment on that. I sense a
broader range of imagery and ease of empathy in your narratives, maybe a
more emotive and hopeful tone. I couldn’t lay that as tribute to the
ibogaine, perhaps a lessened intake of other things, or life
achievements elsewhere in your life, a better editor, I couldn’t say. I
appreciate your growth as a writer, tho, and likewise your postings on
MindVox that pertain to getting past addiction and despair. I’ll try to
get my own postings less confusing and to be percieved as less imposing.

Dr. Tom

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 12:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

What dosages are commonly used for those applications?

What I’m wondering is if they’re useful for these things in
sub-psychedelic doses…

cause if you have to take enough mushrooms to make you “trip” to say, cure
a headache, I can’t see that as being a particularly practical medicine.
But it would be very interesting to find out that they have useful effects
at sub-psychedelic doses.

thanx =)

j0n

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 12:09:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tom wrote >To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

And I just thought of something- how could a “drug” (iboga- or the Eye)
“show” us how “false and transient ALL drugged feelings are” na dyet have
some of us believe it? I guess I have to admit to confusion about this one,
in that what I experienced on ibogaine was the result of a drug interacting
with my own thoughts, whether we want to call it by that appellation or not-
ibogaine is a drug, whether “different” than other drugs or not- itsa drug.
So are you saying that what ibogaine- or the Eye- showed you is wrong or
false? Or is that particular drugged feeling honest and true but ALL OTHER
DRUGS’ resulting FEELINGS wrong and false? As noted, I’m confused here. And,
not entirely in agreement with you I guess.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:40 AM
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <tomo7@starband.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions.<

There’s a fine line between “griping,” and “reporting,” “venting,” and
“giving voice through printed word my current thoughts after recently
taking
ibogaine twice.”

Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice.<

Just want it pointed out (by I guess) that I’m not “disappointed,” I’m
merely (merely?) pointing out where I myself stand mentally (and
physically)
at almost 6 and 4 weeks post-ibo sessions.

To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

I guess Iboga shows us each and everyone different things, eh?

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?<

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
the
attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of
things,
I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga)
to
“bum me out” in any way anyway.

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.<

I don’t hear that you are “slamming” anyone at this point. But I do see
what
seems to me you putting your own interpretation onto my reality and
experience. What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who
took
ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the
results,
openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling
me
I
don’t “get” what I’ve “got with the Eye.” Un-drug? Cool, glad that’s
what
You Got. That isn’t even remotely what I got Tom, I tell you in friendly
fashion with a smile.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly.<

Well, considering what you listed, no, there’s not. But then, I think of
V’s
soft skin and loving smile, I think of my beautiful 10 cats and how much
they love me and I them, I think of my new book, I think of going to a
cool
dance this Friday, I think of all my friends and relatives who love and
care
about me and likewise me them, I think about this list and the DrugWar
list,
I think of all the protestors in the streets calling for a nicer world
view,
I think about living in Paris and Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I think of
Sarasota beaches, I think of my old basset hound, I think of all the
great
music, I think of all the great psychedelics and other substances given
us
by the earth (and really, when we get right down to it, as I was
discussing
with someone else yesterday, what is “un-natural”? Not a single thing on
the
planet, not even the “synthetics” as they are “created” by wo/man and
nothing we can do on this planet ever is “unnatural”- nothing
whatsoever,
in
my own view of things that is) I think of V’s Dad who once hated me but
now
brags about me at his high-powered Wall Street investment firm, I think
about my parents coming around about the whole War on Some Drugs and
Users
thing, I think of Sara and the folk in Mexico and Canada and elsewhere
(this’ll have to cover all those place it ain’t exactly legal) giving
ibogaine and other powerful psychedelics to people seeking change, I
think
of Howard unselfishly sharing with me his knowlege and ideas, I think of
Patrick sending me the picture that turned into my newest tattoo, I
think
of
sex (although I sorta already did that at the beginning of all this
thinking, only obliquely), I think of all the things I still want to see
and
experience, and then I’m sure that there is plenty to feel “warm and
fuzzy”
about, even if I don’t always focus on those things and lots more. If I
focus only on what you point out here, heck yeah, I’d be depressed all
the
time instead of only a lot of the time lately.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use
for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.<

This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I get
what
you’re saying here.
I guess what I’m saying in this reply is that I’m not sure what your
point
is Tom. Overall I think your note is being positive but I’m not sure. Is
it?
I mean, at some points you sound angry and others you sound loving so
I’m
not exactly sure what you’re saying Tom is my point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better,
longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling
of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and
doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come
before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?
Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the
best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda.
Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in
3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take
off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in
your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in
silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what
you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited
database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The
human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead
these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles,
designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition
deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well
it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most
of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to.
The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking
up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent
Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening
jello
of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us
they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello
mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All
facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go
into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use
for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations
of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience
the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for
those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired
for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as
opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will
Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for
them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of
cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks
for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 11:40:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <tomo7@starband.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning and
value to his opinions.<

There’s a fine line between “griping,” and “reporting,” “venting,” and
“giving voice through printed word my current thoughts after recently
taking
ibogaine twice.”

Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice.<

Just want it pointed out (by I guess) that I’m not “disappointed,” I’m
merely (merely?) pointing out where I myself stand mentally (and
physically)
at almost 6 and 4 weeks post-ibo sessions.

To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

I guess Iboga shows us each and everyone different things, eh?

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?<

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
the
attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of things,
I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga) to
“bum me out” in any way anyway.

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.<

I don’t hear that you are “slamming” anyone at this point. But I do see
what
seems to me you putting your own interpretation onto my reality and
experience. What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who took
ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the results,
openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling me
I
don’t “get” what I’ve “got with the Eye.” Un-drug? Cool, glad that’s what
You Got. That isn’t even remotely what I got Tom, I tell you in friendly
fashion with a smile.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly.<

Well, considering what you listed, no, there’s not. But then, I think of
V’s
soft skin and loving smile, I think of my beautiful 10 cats and how much
they love me and I them, I think of my new book, I think of going to a
cool
dance this Friday, I think of all my friends and relatives who love and
care
about me and likewise me them, I think about this list and the DrugWar
list,
I think of all the protestors in the streets calling for a nicer world
view,
I think about living in Paris and Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I think of
Sarasota beaches, I think of my old basset hound, I think of all the great
music, I think of all the great psychedelics and other substances given us
by the earth (and really, when we get right down to it, as I was
discussing
with someone else yesterday, what is “un-natural”? Not a single thing on
the
planet, not even the “synthetics” as they are “created” by wo/man and
nothing we can do on this planet ever is “unnatural”- nothing whatsoever,
in
my own view of things that is) I think of V’s Dad who once hated me but
now
brags about me at his high-powered Wall Street investment firm, I think
about my parents coming around about the whole War on Some Drugs and Users
thing, I think of Sara and the folk in Mexico and Canada and elsewhere
(this’ll have to cover all those place it ain’t exactly legal) giving
ibogaine and other powerful psychedelics to people seeking change, I think
of Howard unselfishly sharing with me his knowlege and ideas, I think of
Patrick sending me the picture that turned into my newest tattoo, I think
of
sex (although I sorta already did that at the beginning of all this
thinking, only obliquely), I think of all the things I still want to see
and
experience, and then I’m sure that there is plenty to feel “warm and
fuzzy”
about, even if I don’t always focus on those things and lots more. If I
focus only on what you point out here, heck yeah, I’d be depressed all the
time instead of only a lot of the time lately.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.<

This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I get
what
you’re saying here.
I guess what I’m saying in this reply is that I’m not sure what your point
is Tom. Overall I think your note is being positive but I’m not sure. Is
it?
I mean, at some points you sound angry and others you sound loving so I’m
not exactly sure what you’re saying Tom is my point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better,
longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?
Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda. Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in 3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited
database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The
human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles,
designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to.
The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening jello
of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us
they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All
facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go
into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will
Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for
them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks
for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 29, 2004 at 10:02:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
Callie is right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You are the codependent.  I hope you don’t have to go all the way down with the ex to get it.  I’ve been there. I know. Your last post was as if you were saying, OK, thanks for the help but I just gotta do myself in cause I love this here  ex bad boy of mine sooooooooo much.  Hannah, do you think the ex would be there taking care of your needs when and if push comes to shove???????  My friends talked to me endlessly – but the only thing that really did it for me was when I was willing to see my fantasy.
With love,
Mary

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:24:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.<

LOL, Sara, we’re lookin’, we’re lookin’ but we sure ain’t findin’.
;-((
Guess I’ll have to keep focusing on those other things I mentioned until I
do find.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

S.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:33:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You obviously love your animals and thats only got to be good.  Spend time with them, enjoy them,  forget the bullshit cleaning stuff.  Whos going to remember that you cleaned your flat every week or whatever, or more important will you.  Or will you remember the walks you had with your dogs and horse etc.  Enjoy them and let them enjoy your company.  Best wishes.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:43:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!

Thanks Mary 🙂

After spending the past 5yrs (I know it doesn’t sound long but I’m only 23) chasing H and letting the rest of my life disappear down the drain I’m now interested in so many things-it seems like there’s so much out there, so many totally wierd and wonderful things!  I haven’t really settled into anything if you know what I mean.  I’ve been reading bits on Buddhism, meditation etc etc. I’m trying to practise visualisation.  I’m trying to get back into Yoga.  Y’know when you discover something and it just seems so right?  I’ve always been interested in Wicca and that feels really right.  I’ve gotta life coach.  Since I was a little kid I’ve loved animals especially horses and dreamed of being a horse whisperer like Monty roberts if you’ve heard of him?  Now my life coach is trying to get me funded to go on some courses and I’m going to meet a local one next week to see if I can work voluntarily to gain experience!  (I’m trying really hard not to let my excitement bubble over coz I’m still kinda expecting it to all fuck up in my usual pessimistic way!)  I’ve had a friend’s pony to look after for a couple of months and that’s been wonderful as I’ve been riding most days (I didn’t ride the whole time I was into my gear) I’m just gutted now as I have to give him back and I love him so much and I won’t see him again :-()

So why have I been dabbling again.  Today’s Day 3 again but I have a Sub script so I’m not really ill.  But I feel really angry.  I don’t even know why I’m writing all this, just that I have to speak even to no one.  I’ve got 2 friends staying in me & my boyfs tiny 1bedroom flat and i’m starting to go mad-cleaning up after 3 men.  I feel really tearful lke my insides wanna explode.  My dogs nagging me for a walk and barking at nothing. Now my landlords turned up!

When things get tuff I run back to gear like a baby. I MUST NOT…  It doesn’t help that one of my friends staying is my old partner in crime so we’ve been fucking up together.  He’s in the other room n I can’t talk to him cos I know I’m not strong enough right now to say no.  AAAAH!

I’m hopefully going to open university in Feb and I’m dreading it.  I only went to Uni I now realise coz my parents wanted me to.  I’ve always been the black sheep of our family (on my 21st BDay a family friend got my a black toy sheep as a joke) always in trouble, always the mardy one coz I’ve always been depressed (which doesnt exist to them)  They hated me, I got kicked out, my mum and I nearly tore each others hearts out!  So I wanted to do something good, make them happy for once.  And what did I do?  Get into H and get shit loads in debt and never finish Uni.  So they paid hundreds, porbably thousands in fees for me just to flunk out.  I was looking forward to completeing my degree (Its in Psychology!!!) but now I’m terrified.  The more I think about it the more I realise I haven’t got a chance and I’m just gonna fail again.  I told my mum about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me “They’re just dreams Hannah”

Why an I writing all this?  I feel like I have no identity.  I feel scared all the time…  I give up now this is just getting to self-pitying!  I must learn to think less and do more…

Sorru ecveryone I meant this to be a happy post – a ‘look how much changes when you give up the gear’ post.  But maybe nothing changes.  Nice people are giving me chances but I’m just gonna fuck up again.  I might aswell have a hit right now! NO, no that was a crap joke.  I just feel bad and worried and I have no one to talk to.  No one that understands or who will even let me finish-normally they just jump in and tell me I’m being an idiot!

Right…pulll myself together…I’m going to check a few emails, walk my dog who appears to be bursting for a wee and ride my pony and forget about all the shit I’ve gotta do like clean my flat etc.

Not sure what this rant meant, forget it and carry on! 🙂

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:32:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People care even if you don’t know it or we don’t know you personally so to speak.  Am sure everyone on this list has been through similar situations.  Just keep telling yourself that you are a good person, you have cleaned up before, you can do it again.  Believe in you.
I know its easier said than done but lots of love and good wishes.   Allison.  Its so hard to put things into words at times but hope you know it is with all good intentions.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 27 September 2004 11:19:44 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

In a message dated 9/26/04 5:21:07 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week. Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now. Away, where I think it will give me better results. I
am on the verge of tears right now. Very down. Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way. I am sinking fast.
>>

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no reason
to not take your HIV medications. If Ibogaine were an approved medication you
would most likely not be having these problems. Too bad your doctor can’t
hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.

Take care of yourself.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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.

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:25:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you think the reward type thinking is part of the addiction behaviour.  I know we would reward or treat ourselves on birthdays, special days etc.  but then we somehow managed to make special days to fit if you know what I mean.  And of course special days couldn’t just be one day they had to stretch a bit or a lot as the case may be, or money and availability decreed.   Allison
PS Have been trying to keep up with whats going on but have been real tired and not up to a lot.  Have just done my first month on interferon treatment for HepC .  They tell me it gets better and I sure hope so cos feel like shit at the moment but am hanging in there.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 7:12:39 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world. Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests. It doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I was
using (whatever it was at the time). Not many people talk about this. Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life – the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take something
– that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process. Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

> Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
> I think many of us are.
> I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
> I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
> has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
> That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
> feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
> COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
> longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
> experienced.
> (This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
> already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
> in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
> seen or heard.)
> I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
> I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
> much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
> have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
> providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
> gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
> the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
> this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
> should get aftercare friend.”
> 😉
> I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
> not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
> book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
> floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
> Mood wise I mean.
> Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
> something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
> I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
> often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
> ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
> least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
> really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
> continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
> it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
> substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
> while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
> I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
> So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
> can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
> In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
> to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
> is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
> anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
> always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
> work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.
>
> Peace and love and respect and care and more love
> Preston
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: UUSEAN@aol.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
>
>
> \
> Hey list,
>
> Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
> again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
> mad, after a 60 hour work week. Have work tomorrow.
>
> The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
> about three weeks from now. Away, where I think it will give me better
> results. I am on the verge of tears right now. Very down. Looking for a
> ray of hope. I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
> suicide I don’t know.
>
> Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way. I am sinking fast.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 3:16:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi  Martian,

It is safe to use both at the same time, but I usually wait four five days after the Ibo. Trip.normally you get them in a small box fresh which is the right dose,
You can see if they turn a little bluish then they are more potent.

S.
Van: Leah martian [mailto:martian_9@graffiti.net] 
Verzonden: woensdag 29 september 2004 1:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Sarah,
I’m curious….how do you know what dose of mushrooms to give someone post Ibogaine, and at what hour mark would you consider safe to dose the mushrooms?
martian
:)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:58:01 +0200
To: 
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

S.

Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC
www.ibogatherapyhouse.org

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 3:16:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:41:42 -0700 tomo7@starband.net wrote:
The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening
jello of our adaptive habitual behavior patterns.

It seemed like my sense of self quivered like jello for two weeks before
I seemed to reach something firmly familiar in myself.

Since we are our patterns, seeing how arbitrary they are can be disquieting.

The Eye experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the
ideal jello mold for you to pour into for your souls best life
preference.

That free will thing.. patterns with free will?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 29, 2004 at 2:07:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:07:58 -0700 Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
If you hold the root bark in your mouth for an hour you will not
taste it anymore

How does food taste when you can eat again?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Where to buy Ibogaine pills in Europe ?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 10:45:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis!
Welcome to mindvox Ibogaine list.
There are no wrong questions here as far as I know!
My name is Callie and I have been an opiate addict 25 plus years. I have been on Methadone since 1997.I have not experienced Ibogaine yet but I am planning and it seems my turn may be coming up soon!
There are very many qualified people here that will answer your technical questions.
I do not have the knowledge or experience to share right now. I can tell you I have been amazed by what I have read and experiences I have heard here on list. I am not going to name qualified folks cuz I will leave someone out. You will soon know who they are by just reading these posts.
Here are a couple of good links I started out with. There is a LOT of info. If you are like me you will be learning everyday!

http://ibogaine.co.uk/

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/index.shtml

Hope to see you posting a lot. BTW, you may have to cut and paste the above url’s.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 28, 2004 at 10:27:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,
Hi!
I really saw red flags when I read your last post!
You really need to get some space between you and your ex! Feeling protective of him is rationalization bullshit! I am really sorry if this seems too raw and bluntly honest but I really seen red lags when I read that post.
Also, if you are like me, you will continue to use if you remain around him. You are powerless to say no. You might once or twice or even three times but you will use with him again if you are close to him!!!
Your nice boyfriend does not deserve this I bet. You are both betraying his trust and I bet he would feel like you cheated on him if he found out, even if there was no sex. It is emotional cheating.
I know you say that he is unpredictable and self destructive but that is not your stuff! Even if he was your significant other it would not be something you could change. He has to change that. Two self-destructive people do not need to hang out together. You will both go down the tubes!
Good luck Hannah! Do you have some chick friends you could stay with awhile?
This is a life and death situation. (For both of you!) I am very concerned for you.
Keep us posted and try to remove yourself IMMEDIATELY!!
A chick friend, Callie

From: “Leah martian” <martian_9@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 7:28:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sarah,
I’m curious….how do you know what dose of mushrooms to give someone post Ibogaine, and at what hour mark would you consider safe to dose the mushrooms?
martian
:)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:58:01 +0200
To: 
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

S.

Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC
www.ibogatherapyhouse.org


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Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! 
  
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:20:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/28/2004 6:51:46 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
When you shoot at people who like to kill they become non violent and swinging.

lol! Great imagination he has, huh? Tell him to keep that line of thought  and he will do well! Violence begets violence they say, so nonviolence begets nonviolence??? Makes sense to me!
Peace,  Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:15:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Dr. Tom. I would like to know more about your intellectual pursuits, education and/or experiences as it relates to ‘chemistry’. Obviously you need not answer me but I found much of what you stated….persuasive yet curious.

Regards,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:04:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll help Sara except you are asking for people who possess a degree or knowledge in that science or related, correct? Still, I’ll help any way I can.

Love,

Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:58:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

S.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Open Letter (draft) to Kerry/Edwards for D.C. info zap
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:47:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We are appealing for a higher-level review of our request for
clarification as to whether your platform language calling for
“increased treatment”  for drug addiction refers mostly to treatments
already in the SAMSHA pipeline, or whether it heralds a new, more
science-based commitment to explore research into more promising
approaches that could transform the way our society deals with its
drug problem.

During the Wisconsin primary, when Theresa Heinz Kerry came back and
asked for more literature  on these medications, we were
heartened–only to encounter a conventional wisdom among staffers
that the only forms treatment that could be specified in the platform
without losing votes to Bush were “mandatory drug courts and
mandatory urine testing.” (Neither one of which is treatment.)

Over the summer our affiliates faxed this headquarters from Florida,
North Carolina, Ohio, Michigan, Minneapolis, Iowa, Missouri,
Arkansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Oregon and Washington–all
key battlefield states–about the first generation  of broad-spectrum
addiction interrupters, derived from the African rainforest iboga
plant.

They understood that like many Americans, many folks in the
Kerry/Edwards campaign were simply unaware of this new class of
broad-spectrum pharmacotherapies for addiction that are NOT
maintenance drugs or blockers. A single dose or short course of
treatments with one of these alkaloids stops withdrawal and cravings
for opiates, nicotine, alcohol for months, or even years.  Currently,
there is NOTHING else available to treat crack or crystal meth
dependency BUT Ibogaine. Recently, the New York State Office of
Alcohol and Substance Abuse Services (OASAS) put up its own webpage
touting the semi-synthetic form “18 MC”, invented by Stanley Glick (a
regular recipient of NIDA research grants) at Albany Medical College.
18 Methoxycoronaridine has none of the objectionable  side-effects of
natural Ibogaine, is NOT scheduled, and is twice  as effective for
nicotine (and potentially stimulant) addiction. (Ibogaine is banned
in the U.S.–but legal almost everywhere else in the world, including
Mexico and Canada.)

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

While we can accept that advocating treatment, not prison, may seem
like a tough sell in this campaign, people who are not familiar with
our slice of the electorate just don’t really understand how
important replacement of imprisonment with non-coercive  treatment is
to our voters. The current platform language is  making it really
hard to generate the enthusiasm to go out and really stump for Kerry
among the one or two per cent of the electorate who voted for Ralph
Nader or Harry Brown in 2000 because of their strong public
opposition to the Drug War.

All we asked from the campaign was a fig leaf–something–we can take
back to our people to get them to vote for Kerry enthusiastically,
not just grudgingly, so that all their friends turn out and vote for
him as well. We need more than the wink and nudge routine we got from
Clinton.  ACT UP at least got Clinton to endorse needle exchange in
October of 1992–and that made a difference later.

Last week Christin Sewell, who works for Madhu Chugh your health
policy coordinator, told us the decision had been reached  not to
refer the matter to anyone with sufficient authority to issue a one
sentence statement. We cannot accept Ibogaine being swept under the
rug. Not are lives being lost, VOTES will be lost for Kerry in
November. Do you really want to throw away hundreds of votes in all
the states where organizers took the trouble to fax you–when the
race could be decided in New Mexico or Wisconsin by  a few hundred
votes?

What is needed with a breakthrough treatment like this is the kind of
bold White House initiative Richard Nixon displayed in implementing
methadone maintenance over the objections of the nay-sayers and “not
invented here” cadres of established bureaucracy. That initiative
should start with a commitment to order a review of the status of the
iboga alkoids BEFORE November 2, when it can still do some good.

If you can come out for stem-cell research, you can come out for the
next generation of drugs to treat addiction, and turn the promise of
treatment on demand into reality. Help us get the more than one
million people, who voted for Nader because he was for a progressive
drug policy, to vote for John Kerry.

Yours Respectfully,

Dana Beal, co-author, THE IBOGAINE STORY

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:41:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better, longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out? Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda. Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in 3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to. The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening jello of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 2:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im gonna have to look into this. My therapist is getting ready to screen me for PTSD.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar]  Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:16:46 -0400

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Persistent scientists believe ecstasy, psilocybin can help people
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute, the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug
Administration to approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics.
The movement seems to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the
FDA and the Drug Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to
three clinical trials testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and
several more are on deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’ hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it, and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder of the Heffter Research Institute, http://www.heffter.org/ a
scientific organization that organizes and funds trials involving
psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than the
one medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the National Institute on Drug Abuse http://www.nida.nih.gov/ and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president of
MAPS. http://www.maps.org/  The roadblock with marijuana has centered on
supply. A government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana
the government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of
it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ — led to the launch of the first FDA-approved
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html clinical trial
testing MDMA as a therapy (in this case for post-traumatic stress disorder)
since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital, presented
his proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches,
http://www.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~headache/cluster.html which are rare but brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain; the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement. He now runs clusterbusters.com, where he communicates with about
200 other cluster-headache victims who have tried psilocybin to relieve
their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in the form of questionnaires,
which Halpern can present to Harvard’s institutional review board.

Studies http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_history.shtml
starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results treating cluster
and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold decide to try a
psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders including
depression, alcoholism
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713 and addiction to
other drugs like heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA
http://www.maps.org/mdma/index.html#history on his patients in the early
’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first synthesized by Merck in
1912) along with Alexander Shulgin,
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/shulginbio.htm who became a cult
figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife, Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug, and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html drug, the highest level of
illegal drug in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing
ecstasy, including doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer
stopped prescribing it for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year later,
the researchers retracted
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html the study because
they discovered they had accidentally used methamphetamine instead of
ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead
to perform a study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients.
He got permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When after
several years http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/mdmaucla.html neither the
FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed his proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can be
used safely and effectively.”

Related Stories
DEA Accedes to Ecstasy Test Mar. 02, 2004
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Why Ecstasy Researcher Is Smiling Sep. 12, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,60389,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Ecstasy Study Botched, Retracted Sep. 05, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Getting the FDA Hooked on Ecstasy Dec. 10, 2001
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,48547,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Lucy In the Sky, With Therapists Nov. 09, 2000
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39796,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Where to buy Ibogaine pills in Europe ?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:48:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am new to this Mailing-list and I apologize if I ask the wrong questions.

– Is Ibogaine realy effective for detox of addictions ?
– Where can I buy Ibogaine pills in Europe.

Thank you
Francis

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:16:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Persistent scientists believe ecstasy, psilocybin can help people
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute, the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug
Administration to approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics.
The movement seems to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the
FDA and the Drug Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to
three clinical trials testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and
several more are on deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’ hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it, and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder of the Heffter Research Institute, http://www.heffter.org/ a
scientific organization that organizes and funds trials involving
psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than the
one medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the National Institute on Drug Abuse http://www.nida.nih.gov/ and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president of
MAPS. http://www.maps.org/  The roadblock with marijuana has centered on
supply. A government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana
the government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of
it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ — led to the launch of the first FDA-approved
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html clinical trial
testing MDMA as a therapy (in this case for post-traumatic stress disorder)
since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital, presented
his proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches,
http://www.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~headache/cluster.html which are rare but brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain; the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement. He now runs clusterbusters.com, where he communicates with about
200 other cluster-headache victims who have tried psilocybin to relieve
their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in the form of questionnaires,
which Halpern can present to Harvard’s institutional review board.

Studies http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_history.shtml
starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results treating cluster
and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold decide to try a
psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders including
depression, alcoholism
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713 and addiction to
other drugs like heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA
http://www.maps.org/mdma/index.html#history on his patients in the early
’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first synthesized by Merck in
1912) along with Alexander Shulgin,
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/shulginbio.htm who became a cult
figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife, Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug, and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html drug, the highest level of
illegal drug in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing
ecstasy, including doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer
stopped prescribing it for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year later,
the researchers retracted
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html the study because
they discovered they had accidentally used methamphetamine instead of
ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead
to perform a study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients.
He got permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When after
several years http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/mdmaucla.html neither the
FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed his proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can be
used safely and effectively.”

Related Stories
DEA Accedes to Ecstasy Test Mar. 02, 2004
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Why Ecstasy Researcher Is Smiling Sep. 12, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,60389,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Ecstasy Study Botched, Retracted Sep. 05, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Getting the FDA Hooked on Ecstasy Dec. 10, 2001
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,48547,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Lucy In the Sky, With Therapists Nov. 09, 2000
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39796,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 28, 2004 at 12:05:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou Julie, Jason and Mary-you all made such a big difference!  I thought I was just rambling rubbish but maybe I do need to listen to myself and stop worrying about what other people think.  I can’t thank each of you enough-I nearly cried when I read your responses!  My boyf doesn’t use AT ALL and hates the stuff, I got with him 3yrs ago and I was sposed to quit then!  He puts up with alot.  He’s a sweetheart.  I hear you all about my friend whos staying-its a very complex situation.  If my boyf knew what we got up to together (with drugs) he’d kick him out for sure but he’s my Ex and I’ve always felt really protective over him.  In the end I’d rather end up with a big habit again rather than see him on the streets.  He’s really self-destructive and unpredictable and I’m scared what he’d do…

Anyway thanks again, honestly you really touched me and gave me faith in the world.  I can’t thank you enough!
Lots of love Hannah

PS: Jason, I’ve got ‘Wicca, a guide for the solitary practitioner’ and ‘Living Wicca’ by S.C. They’re great books-they’ve really inspired me!
—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!

Dear Hannah,
Does your boyfriend use?  Does your relationship with your boyfriend make you want to use or make you want to not use?
All of your dreams are doable.  You can be a horse whisperer.  You can learn all about the magic in the world and have a great relationship with your Mum and anything else you want.  But just as a horse (substitute dog, person, you name it) needs the right conditions to thrive,  so does Hannah!
You mentioned in your post that you don’t know the meaning of your rant.  What I get is that you want to follow a dream, you feel bad about having disappointed people, and you are aware that you are not strong enough to resist using around certain “friends”.
Hannah,  you will need optimal conditions to make your dreams happen.  Who we share ourselves with on a daily basis whether it be lover, friends, family – these are the main energy drains or energy supports.  Think about how you can set yourself up for the best possible result.
Love,
Mary

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 7:51:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My son who is a 6 years old, is very inventive,
He found a new war device, when you shoot at people who like to kill they become non violent and swinging.
It is a kind of hypnosis device, he just has to find the right frequency. who can help the kid?
From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! I’ve learned
Date: September 28, 2004 at 5:37:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ive learned ….
life after heroin is like a butter knife – after ridding on the edge of a
razor

dUll,,..

I’ve learned….
That life is like a roll of  toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end,
the
faster it goes.

I’ve  learned….
That we should be glad God doesn’t give us everything we ask  for

I’ve learned….
That money doesn’t buy class.

I’ve  learned….
That it’s those small daily happenings that make life so  spectacular.

I’ve learned…
That under everyone’s hard shell is  someone who wants to be appreciated
and
loved.

I’ve learned….
That  the Lord didn’t do it all in one day. What makes me think I can?

I’ve  learned….
That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.

I’ve  learned….
That when you plan to get even with someone, you are only letting  that
person continue to hurt you.

I’ve learned….
That love, not  time, heals all wounds.

I’ve learned…
That the easiest way for me to  grow as a person is to surround myself
with
people smarter than I  am.

I’ve learned….
That everyone you meet deserves to be greeted  with a smile.

I’ve learned….
That no one is perfect until you fall  in love with them.

I’ve learned….
That life is tough, but I’m tougher.

I’ve  learned…
That opportunities are never lost; someone will take the ones you  miss.

I’ve learned….
That when you harbor bitterness, happiness will  dock elsewhere.

I’ve learned…
That I wish I could have told those I  cared about that I love them one
more
time before they passed away.

I’ve  learned….
That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because  tomorrow he
may
have to eat them.

I’ve learned….
That a smile is an  inexpensive way to improve your looks.

I’ve learned….
That I can’t  choose how I feel, but I can choose what I do about it.

I’ve  learned….
That everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the  happiness
and growth occurs while you’re climbing it.

I’ve  learned…
That it is best to give advice in only two circumstances; when it  is
requested and when it is a life threatening situation.

I’ve  learned….
That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get  done.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 28, 2004 at 5:07:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you hold the root bark in your mouth for an hour you will not taste it
anymore then you can eat more of it as much as you can,
I agree with you, the root bark extract is longer lasting then HCL.
Very soon I will be experimenting with homeopathic Iboga.
I would like to find out if it can stop the “crash”.and other finding.

“As you think, so is your world.

The reality that you have

is a replica of your thoughts.

If you do not like your world,

you must change your thoughts.” Seth

with love,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: dinsdag 28 september 2004 9:03
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and
the trip

Root bark tasted like running into a thornbush naked. Liquid root bark
extract (black in color) was like a violent sunburn on the inside of
my stomach. Indra extract (looked like American brown sugar) is slower
onset and longer-lasting than HCl, more wobbly legs and trails and low
blood sugar.  But the main variable is oneself. My best experience was
on a low dose (estimated < 5 mg/kg HCl equivalent) of the rootbark herbal
extract evaporated to tar and put in capsules. Ibogaine seems to slow
everything down, and the longer you stay slowed-down the more you can
get from it. It’s so easy to run off with the first cup of joy rather
than discover how to remain at the spigot. Which is a euphemism for ya
gotta do tha woik. Look for something good to do, for yourself, for someone
else. Take some criticism, see if you hurt people or help hurt them,
and think about it.

What if you didn’t have a history, could choose freely? You’re a bunch
of molecules clumping along – with bunches of choices. Who gets to make
them?

A bunch of hopped-up iboganauts on the net? A plant that’s even worth
(peace, o iboga being)?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Longitudinal study of injectors: peak mortality at 6-8 years.
Date: September 28, 2004 at 5:06:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: Longitudinal study of injectors: peak mortality at 6-8 years.

Mortality risk among new onset injection drug users. Vlahov D, Wang C,
Galai N, Bareta J, Mehta SH, Strathdee SA, Nelson KE. Addiction (2004)
99:946-954

Dear Colleagues,

This important and elegant piece of research demonstrates several
crucial features of drug use in a group of 256 ‘early’ injecting drug
users over a 12 year period. Subjects were recruited from a variety of
sources, mostly word-of-mouth in Baltimore, USA, all with a history of
less than 2 years since first injecting drugs. The study’s end point was
death yet several other important findings on the natural history of
drug use are also revealed.

At recruitment 70% were male, 94% were African-American and mean age was
30. HIV rate was 22%. There were 90% currently injecting, 25% more than
once daily. Just 25% had ever had drug addiction treatment, only 2% on
methadone maintenance treatment (MMT). The authors state that ‘needle
sharing and shooting gallery use were not uncommon’.

With 69 known deaths among the 256 during the 12 year study period, the
overall mortality rate was 3.3 per 100 patient years. Thus on average,
over 3% of the sample died each year of the twelve. Yet the rate was not
at all even, showing a peak at 6 to 8 years which was around 8 times the
‘expected’ US mortality. At 2, 4, 10 and 12 years from recruitment, the
mortality figures were about 4 times that expected for the same sex/age
controls. These figures in turn were about 2 to 4 times the actual
Baltimore City mortality data which appear to be worse than elsewhere in
the country.

These findings are surprising as there is neither an early nor a late
peak of mortality as some had suspected, but a higher risk of death
around 6 to 8 years from initial injecting with levelling out again
after that. Even if the HIV cases are excluded, the peaks and other
trends persist, but with less accentuation.

Follow-up rates at 5 and 10 years were ~75% and ~60%. The researchers
found at the 5 (and 10) year follow up (respectively) that 54% (48%)
were still injecting, 5.6% (5.7%) heroin alone; 15.7% (11.3%) cocaine
alone; 79% (70%) alternating cocaine and heroin. Important to note is
that fully half of the subjects had ceased injecting. About 9% were in
treatment, 3% (6%) on MMT, 6% (3%) abstinence based. Self reported
health rating of ‘good’ or better was reported by 82% at 5 years and 94%
at 10 years. Needless to say, these figures exclude the large numbers
who had dropped out or died.

It is a tragic reality of the American health care system that it took
ten years for methadone treatment to become available for 6.3% of the
sample (originally 2% and 3.1% at 5 years). Knowing that more than 75%
of the 256 were heroin users, the uptake of methadone and abstinence
based treatments seem very low and probably reflect the lack of
treatment available in Baltimore as well as the low socio-economic
status of many of the subjects in this study. The death rates of MMT
patients is generally less than 1% per annum. If only the other good
citizens of Baltimore had acted on the impressive economic good sense of
funding methadone and other treatments for addictions, many of the
deaths reported here would have been avoided (and household insurance
premiums would probably have been lower).

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

Vlahov D, Wang C, Galai N, Bareta J, Mehta SH, Strathdee SA, Nelson KE.
Mortality risk among new onset injection drug users. Addiction (2004)
99:946-954

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:03:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Root bark tasted like running into a thornbush naked. Liquid root bark
extract (black in color) was like a violent sunburn on the inside of
my stomach. Indra extract (looked like American brown sugar) is slower
onset and longer-lasting than HCl, more wobbly legs and trails and low
blood sugar.  But the main variable is oneself. My best experience was
on a low dose (estimated < 5 mg/kg HCl equivalent) of the rootbark herbal
extract evaporated to tar and put in capsules. Ibogaine seems to slow
everything down, and the longer you stay slowed-down the more you can
get from it. It’s so easy to run off with the first cup of joy rather
than discover how to remain at the spigot. Which is a euphemism for ya
gotta do tha woik. Look for something good to do, for yourself, for someone
else. Take some criticism, see if you hurt people or help hurt them,
and think about it.

What if you didn’t have a history, could choose freely? You’re a bunch
of molecules clumping along – with bunches of choices. Who gets to make
them?

A bunch of hopped-up iboganauts on the net? A plant that’s even worth
(peace, o iboga being)?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:28:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:02:25 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at
least, it has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST
LIKE COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after
a much longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash
I’ve ever experienced.

I believe that you really have to sit with the ibogaine experience long
after it is over in order to catch all the traumas and defenses as they
reappear. Otherwise it can be a wild ride indeed. Preferably with a therapist
or close loved one on board, but with as few people as possible to keep
the focus inward. Think in terms of hours of meditation a day, with possible
conversations to match.

(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as
I’ve already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to
my face or in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at
least that I’ve ever seen or heard.)

Maybe I can rectify that. I prayed for death a few times after one ibogaine
experience. Just my mind going through hoops, but very grim at the time,
and it took over a year to put it behind me. Either some awful stuff
has happened to me, or I have been deeply masochistic, but my mind seems
to come apart when I look at one part of myself. Fortunately there seems
no need to do so, and unfortunately that seems to be what iboga is alll
about.

Getting back on topic, Preston my fantasy is that you’re still integrating,
the whole ride you’re on is the stuff you were able to keep down on
the ibo, and you’re transferring your inner pain into this outer crap
because that is what you learned to do. It takes real effort to achieve
the good feeling the ibo showed you on your own. Ibo just gives a glimpse
of what is at least somewhat achievable by working on oneself in an ongoing
fashion.

All that said, I dunno if anyone will feel any more warned than you did,
but who cares? Well, I’ve done my best 🙂

I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now,
and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems,
I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be
noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks
yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this
is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at
all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique
“you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid.
I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even
having the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful
and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just
in general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here?
Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression
I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to
my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important?
Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if
this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might
“have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get
ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to
quit smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to
tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or
off list. I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to
use or not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons,
it really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will
keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously.
As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and
really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn
toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money
like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment
for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me
better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking
for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could
be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking
fast.

Sean

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] nyc crystal forums
Date: September 28, 2004 at 12:26:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Ooops, this was meant to a private email to Dana.  Sorry all.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] nyc crystal forums
Date: September 28, 2004 at 12:21:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dana,

Don’t know if you have been following the list, but I had a really bad weekend.  Used crack and dope.  I am getting retreated with ibo next Monday. So I will be out of commission so to speak for a couple of weeks.  Will save your email, though, and am really interested in raising ibo consciousness in the gay community.  Just need to get my own house in order right now, so to speak.

It was great meeting you last week, and I look forward to working you and your crew in the near future. Preparing to meet the Bwiti on Monday. Will report back on my journey.

Peace and love,
Sean Cashin

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT! I’ve learned
Date: September 27, 2004 at 9:28:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve learned….
That life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes.

I’ve learned….
That we should be glad God doesn’t give us everything we ask for

I’ve learned….
That money doesn’t buy class.

I’ve learned….
That it’s those small daily happenings that make life so spectacular.

I’ve learned…
That under everyone’s hard shell is someone who wants to be appreciated and loved.

I’ve learned….
That the Lord didn’t do it all in one day. What makes me think I can?

I’ve learned….
That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.

I’ve learned….
That when you plan to get even with someone, you are only letting that person continue to hurt you.

I’ve learned….
That love, not time, heals all wounds.

I’ve learned…
That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.

I’ve learned….
That everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.

I’ve learned….
That no one is perfect until you fall in love with them.

 

I’ve learned….
That life is tough, but I’m tougher.

I’ve learned…
That opportunities are never lost; someone will take the ones you miss.

I’ve learned….
That when you harbor bitterness, happiness will dock elsewhere.

I’ve learned…
That I wish I could have told those I cared about that I love them one more time before they passed away.

I’ve learned….
That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because tomorrow he may have to eat them.

I’ve learned….
That a smile is an inexpensive way to improve your looks.

I’ve learned….
That I can’t choose how I feel, but I can choose what I do about it.

I’ve learned….
That everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you’re climbing it.

I’ve learned…
That it is best to give advice in only two circumstances; when it is requested and when it is a life threatening situation.

I’ve learned….
That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 11:02:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know what the story is with hiv or aids either and haven’t ever
had the interest to find out. If its anything like drug treatment and
ibogaine then anyone with hiv should most likely find out for
themselves and make their own best choices. I agree with that of
course. I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive. My reponse to asking
to have him thrown off wasn’t for what he said, it was the 20 long
messages he said it with. > > Sorry patrick, vig.> > .:vector:.

VMANN:  thats all right dude.
anyway, some of them were about tests, and some of them were about drug use
and HIV.
ill try to be more succinct or some shit like that.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:58:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry for over reacting to vig being obnoxious and posting all those
messages in a row. This list has so many messages that when someone
does that it is real annoying.

I don’t know what the story is with hiv or aids either and haven’t ever
had the interest to find out. If its anything like drug treatment and
ibogaine then anyone with hiv should most likely find out for
themselves and make their own best choices. I agree with that of
course. I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive. My reponse to asking
to have him thrown off wasn’t for what he said, it was the 20 long
messages he said it with.

Sorry patrick, vig.

.:vector:.

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

basically , you don’t want to see that the HIV scam is for made for

you.
It is pure ethnic cleansing, no gas chamber this time but something
more
effective.

So if you don’t use drugs then it is bullshit but if you do it isn’t,

Meth. Is popular, 10 years from now those people will be taking this
cocktail medication.

Go do your thing until you see people dying all over the place,
Then you will say , who gives a shit as long as I’m not one of them.

Okay, but it will be your tax money used for this scam, it will be
your
brother who take those cocktail medication, and your sister
prostituting for

A new drug which is going to be popular, a drug which will do the
ethnical
cleansing just a way quicker and give you a high you can’t resist.

No one wanted to help the gay community when the second world war
Was going on, now it is just the same.

S.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:33:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hattie, I have a friend going through a similar situation to Sean although
Ibogaine isn’t involved.  Would you mind if I sent him a copy of your post?
I think its inspirational and it doesn’t have to apply only to Ibogaine but
beating addiction in general which he’s having a hard time with.  I really
think it would help for him to read this.

Thanks so much,
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal
of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world.
Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in
and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests.  It
doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences
struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months
following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could
very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact
half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the
fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I
was
using (whatever it was at the time).  Not many people talk about this.
Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being
clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want
to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and
that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life –  the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that
I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around
you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take
something
–  that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more
discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it
easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this
is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of
a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even
after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really
jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process.
Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least,
it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face
or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I
also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted
by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is
why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all
knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique
“you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having
the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful
and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in
general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this
is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have”
to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready
for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit
smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell
what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list.
I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or
not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it
really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As
I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money
like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for
a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be
passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:11:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

basically , you don’t want to see that the HIV scam is for made for you.
It is pure ethnic cleansing, no gas chamber this time but something more
effective.

So if you don’t use drugs then it is bullshit but if you do it isn’t,

Meth. Is popular, 10 years from now those people will be taking this
cocktail medication.

Go do your thing until you see people dying all over the place,
Then you will say , who gives a shit as long as I’m not one of them.

Okay, but it will be your tax money used for this scam, it will be your
brother who take those cocktail medication, and your sister prostituting for

A new drug which is going to be popular, a drug which will do the ethnical
cleansing just a way quicker and give you a high you can’t resist.

No one wanted to help the gay community when the second world war
Was going on, now it is just the same.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Verzonden: maandag 27 september 2004 23:10
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list

On Sep 27, 2004, at 5:57 PM, Vigilius Haufniensis wrote:

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you
need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother. .:vector:.

VMANN:  lol, jesus dude.  you should see how much stuff i DIDNT send.
vigilius haufniensis

Vigilius … uhm, all that stuff you’ve reposted there, may or may not
be accurate.  It could, in fact, contain the most illuminating
collection of unbiased truth that has ever been slapped together by
human beings.

Personally, I really don’t give a shit.  I don’t have HIV, AIDS, or
hold stock in any pharmaceutical firms that sell drugs to combat same.

If you happen to be HIV positive, or have full-blown AIDS, then it’s
probably worth your time to educate yourself about your condition, to
the best of your ability to do so.  Because the mEdiCal eStabLishmenT
tends to be full of shit.

Having said all that, this isn’t the HIV or AIDS list.  I’m sure you
can go find 500 places to repost all that, and get a wide assortment of
people to argue with you about the relative merits of the information
contained herein.

In the future, just take all that crap, and put it in ONE large
message, that is easy to ignore by everybody else here who doesn’t give
a shit.  Yet, manages to IMPART all that wonderful knowledge, to
whomever does.

Thanks much,

Patrick

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:03:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Hattie and list,

Thank you all again.  Today was really horrible. First day with no mood alterers, even caffeine (not off coffee, just didn’t have any). Living with parents at 39 is really rough. I was homeless when they took me back in, but I know it time to get out soon.

I really am feeling the big crash today, I believe. I guess it is to be expected. I smashed a glass on the table (haven’t done anything like that in years). The glass shattered everywhere, and even cut my Mom a bit. So now I feel even worse, as well I should I think.

I was really moved by your not Hanna about how after the darkness there comes the light.  I have lined up a full retreatment next week, but I am also already working on a very intense after care, including (gulp) NA meetings. In the meantime, I will not use.

As Preston has said, in the end the choice is really ours alone. And, like Julian keeps saying, ibogaine is no panacea or cure all. Maybe to some degree I was looking at that way more last time than I should have.

Anyway, all seems forgiven here.  I am going to try to eat my first real meal in a few days now.  I think the food might help stabilize me a bit. This list has been a “Godsend” to me.  Each and every one of you who sent a kind word or thought has made a really rough time a little easier.

BTW..please enough with the HIV debate.  As Vector said, this not an HIV list. I need to make my own choices with that disease too (as well as my HepC). This list is a great support, but again, I know the decisions are mine in the end. I am well versed on all sides of the issue of meds Vs non meds for over ten years. Havin had only 13 t cells, I now have over 600, and no infections. I side with meds. I will say now, though, that I refuse to enter any sort of debate about this. Damn it I have enough going on with this withdrawal period.

Yo, thanks again.
Sean

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:10:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 27, 2004, at 5:57 PM, Vigilius Haufniensis wrote:

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother. .:vector:.

VMANN:  lol, jesus dude.  you should see how much stuff i DIDNT send.
vigilius haufniensis

Vigilius … uhm, all that stuff you’ve reposted there, may or may not be accurate.  It could, in fact, contain the most illuminating collection of unbiased truth that has ever been slapped together by human beings.

Personally, I really don’t give a shit.  I don’t have HIV, AIDS, or hold stock in any pharmaceutical firms that sell drugs to combat same.

If you happen to be HIV positive, or have full-blown AIDS, then it’s probably worth your time to educate yourself about your condition, to the best of your ability to do so.  Because the mEdiCal eStabLishmenT tends to be full of shit.

Having said all that, this isn’t the HIV or AIDS list.  I’m sure you can go find 500 places to repost all that, and get a wide assortment of people to argue with you about the relative merits of the information contained herein.

In the future, just take all that crap, and put it in ONE large message, that is easy to ignore by everybody else here who doesn’t give a shit.  Yet, manages to IMPART all that wonderful knowledge, to whomever does.

Thanks much,

Patrick

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 27, 2004 at 4:12:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
Does your boyfriend use?  Does your relationship with your boyfriend make you want to use or make you want to not use?
All of your dreams are doable.  You can be a horse whisperer.  You can learn all about the magic in the world and have a great relationship with your Mum and anything else you want.  But just as a horse (substitute dog, person, you name it) needs the right conditions to thrive,  so does Hannah!
You mentioned in your post that you don’t know the meaning of your rant.  What I get is that you want to follow a dream, you feel bad about having disappointed people, and you are aware that you are not strong enough to resist using around certain “friends”.
Hannah,  you will need optimal conditions to make your dreams happen.  Who we share ourselves with on a daily basis whether it be lover, friends, family – these are the main energy drains or energy supports.  Think about how you can set yourself up for the best possible result.
Love,
Mary

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:57:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother. .:vector:.

VMANN:  lol, jesus dude.  you should see how much stuff i DIDNT send.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV precedes full blown AIDS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:56:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Many studies agree that only a single factor, HIV, predicts whether a person will develop AIDS.

VMANN:  thats pretty interesting, because there ARE NO RELIABLE TESTS FOR HIV.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/chjtests1.htm
First, it is impossible to claim that HIV has been present in all AIDS cases. The CDC admits that 43,606 American AIDS cases have never been tested for HIV. Using the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) statistics, Professor Peter Duesberg of the University of California at Berkeley calculates an additional 18,666 have not been tested, totaling 62,272.[1] In Africa virtually no one is tested. The resources for HIV antibody tests are simply not available in most sub-Saharan African countries. Instead, Africans are diagnosed with AIDS on the basis of a clinical case definition [2] which consists of cough, fever, persistent diarrhea, and weight loss of greater than 10% of body weight. These identical symptoms can be caused by any number of diseases endemic to African countries. In fact, on the rare occasions when groups of African “AIDS” patients have been tested, approximately half of them have been found to be HIV negative.[3]

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:53:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

patrick could you please throw this idiot off the list. It already has
a hugeeeee amount of messages on it without reading 50 reprints from
some computer weenies anti hiv conspiracy.

Please, this is annoying, it is up there with the person who smoked
crack and had conversations with himself for 2 days.

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] CAN YOU REALLY TRUST THE “AIDS TEST”?
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:48:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/chjtests1.htm

CAN YOU REALLY TRUST THE “AIDS TEST”?
By Christine Johnson
HEAL Magazine 1995
The primary evidence offered to substantiate the hypothesis that HIV causes AIDS is an epidemiological correlation between HIV and AIDS. It is claimed that all AIDS patients are infected with HIV, as demonstrated by positive HIV antibody tests, and that a positive HIV antibody test means that a person is infected with HIV.
First, it is impossible to claim that HIV has been present in all AIDS cases. The CDC admits that 43,606 American AIDS cases have never been tested for HIV. Using the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) statistics, Professor Peter Duesberg of the University of California at Berkeley calculates an additional 18,666 have not been tested, totaling 62,272.[1] In Africa virtually no one is tested. The resources for HIV antibody tests are simply not available in most sub-Saharan African countries. Instead, Africans are diagnosed with AIDS on the basis of a clinical case definition [2] which consists of cough, fever, persistent diarrhea, and weight loss of greater than 10% of body weight. These identical symptoms can be caused by any number of diseases endemic to African countries. In fact, on the rare occasions when groups of African “AIDS” patients have been tested, approximately half of them have been found to be HIV negative.[3]
Even if all cases throughout the world had been tested and had been found to be positive, this would still offer no proof that AIDS patients are infected with HIV, since during the initial development of HIV antibody tests (and even to this day), the tests were never verified by an independent gold standard. A gold standard means that it is necessary to correlate a positive antibody test with findings of actual virus in the body of the person being tested and a negative test with findings of no virus in the body.
HIV antibody tests have been subjected to severe criticism by an Australian research team headed by Dr. Eleni Eleopulos [4] for a multitude of reasons. The most important is that an antibody test is not valid unless it has been authenticated by use of an independent gold standard which, for HIV antibody tests, must be the presence of HIV itself. Dr. Eleopulos’s team thoroughly searched the literature on antibody testing and found that no researcher had yet met the requirement of a gold standard. Thus, they conclude that the relationship between a positive HIV antibody test and HIV infection has not been substantiated.
The necessity for a proper gold standard cannot be emphasized too much. Eleopulos explains: “The use of viral isolation as an independent means of establishing the presence or absence of the virus is technically known as a gold standard, and is a quintessential element for the authentication of any diagnostic test. Without a gold standard the investigator is hopelessly disoriented since he does not have an autonomous yardstick against which he can appraise the test he is aspiring to develop.”
Without a gold standard there is no way to be sure that a positive HIV antibody test indicates HIV infection or what it indicates. False positives due to cross-reactions have been well-documented for dozens of different reasons. A crossreaction is when the test finds an antibody to another microbe or even to some normal cellular component and registers it as an antibody to HIV.
Cross-reactions with non-HIV antibodies have been documented in the presence of the following: any other retrovirus besides HIV, the flu virus, common cold virus, herpes simplex-2 virus, hepatitis B virus, all Mycobacterium bacterial species (including tuberculosis, leprosy, and M. avium [MAC]); vaccinations such as for flu or hepatitis B; pregnancy or prior pregnancy, blood transfusions, hemophilia, blood clotting factor, sperm, a highly oxidized physiological condition (which occurs with extensive use of drugs or blood products); autoimmune disorders such as lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and Sjogren’s syndrome; cancers such as multiple myeloma; alcoholic hepatitis, alcoholism, liver disease; naturally-occurring antibodies such as antibodies to carbohydrate, nuclear antigens, human T-cells, mitochondria, and cellular actin; tapeworms and other parasites; malaria, malnutrition, and others.
The reason members of the AIDS risk groups (gay men, intravenous drug users, hemophiliacs, and recipients of blood transfusions) have high levels of positive HIV antibody tests is due to the fact that all these groups are exposed to a multitude of foreign antigens and infectious agents and thus have numerous antibodies to many non-HIV antigens. Because of these factors, it is to be expected that cross-reactivity with the HIV antigens in the test kits would be the rule rather than the exception in these groups. The same holds true for Africans: Both ELISA and Western Blot tests are nonspecific in African populations, meaning the tests cross-react with antibodies to other diseases on such a frequent basis as to make the results worthless for HIV detection.[5-9]
According to Langedijk, “[a]lmost all reactions, especially in low-risk populations, represent false positive results.”[10] Both on ELISA and Western Blot. In the general population, it has been generally accepted by mainstream AIDS researchers that positive results are likely to be false positives. Many articles have been written in the scientific literature expressing concern about this problem.[11-13] As Germanson has noted, “At some point of extremely low disease prevalence, it is expected that the positive predictive value (PPV) of the most powerful assay series will deteriorate to a sub-standard level of performance.” A low PPV means that a positive result is not likely to predict infection.
The mathematics of the relationship between test specificity, disease prevalence, and positive predictive value consistently predict that in low-prevalence populations almost all positives are false positives. In the general population, which the CDC estimates to have a prevalence of HIV infection of 0.04%, using a test with a specificity of 99.9%, the result is that 71% of all positives will be false positives. At a specificity of 98.6%, 97% will be false positives. (Send a SASE to the author for a chart of these calculations.)
The above discussion only scratches the surface of what is wrong with HIV antibody tests. It is not recommended by this author to get tested for any reason; to do so is to open a Pandora’s box of trouble.
References
1. Duesberg, P. 1993. “The HIV gap in national AIDS statistics.” Bio/Technolpgy.- 11:955-6.
2. Gilks, C. 199 1. ‘What use is a clinical case definition for AIDS in Africa?’ BMJ. 303.1189-90.
3. Duesberg, P. 1992. AIDS acquired by drug consumption and other non contagious risk factors. Pharmac. Ther. 12. 55:201-277.
4, Papadopulos-Eleopulos, E., Turner, V., Papadimitriou, J. 1993. Is a positive Western Blot proof of HIV infection? Bio/Technology— 11:696-707.
5. Hunsmann, G., Schneider, J, Wendler, I. et al. 1985. HTLV positivity in Africans. Lancet. October 26, 1985.
6. AIDS vaccine efficacy trial sites selected by WHO. 1991. The Blue Sheet. 34(43):1-3.
7. Weiss, R., Cheingsong-Popov, R., Clayden, S. et al. 1986. Lack of HTLVA antibodies in Africans. Nature. 319:794795.
8. Biggar, R., Melbye, M., Sarin, P. et al. 1985. ELISA HTLV retrovirus antibody reactivity associated with malaria and immune complexes in healthy Aflicans. Lancet. ii:520-523.
9. Kashala, 0., Marlink, R., Ilunga, M. et al. 1994. Infection with human immunodeficiency virus type 1 (HIV- 1) and human T-cell lymphotropic viruses among leprosy patients and contacts: correlation between HIV- 1 crossreactivity and antibodies to lipoarabinomanna. J. Infec. Dis. 169:296-304.
10. Langedijk, J., Vos, W., Doornum, G, et al. 1992. Identification of crossreactive epitopes recognized by HIV- 1 false-positive sera. AIDS. 6:1547-1548.
11. Weiss, R., Thier, S. 1988. HIV testing is the answer — what’s the questiong NEJM 319:1010-1012. Meyer, K., Pauker, S. 1987. Screening for HIV: Can we afford the false positive rate? . 317:238-241.
13. Germanson, T. 1989. Screening for HIV: Can we afford the confusion of the false positive rate? J. Clin. Epi. 42:1235-123

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HOW ACCURATE IS THE HIV TEST?
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:47:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cftests2.htm

HOW ACCURATE IS THE HIV TEST?
By Celia Farber
Mothering Sept./Oct. 1998
People often discuss the dreaded “AIDS test” as though it is AIDS itself that is being tested for. It is not. What the “AIDS test” actually detects is antibodies to HIV, which may or may not entail true infection with HIV. (1) Traditionally, antibodies have signaled that an infection has been defeated. In AIDS, however, for reasons that remain unresolved, the antibody has come to be synonymous with bad news — a categorical signal that the person “has” HIV and perhaps even “has” AIDS.
Rarely, if ever, has a single diagnostic test had such an enormous impact on the lives of the millions of people who rely on it. Since 1985, the U.S. government and various civilian institutions have performed more than 20 million HIV tests every year. Responses to positive tests have been melodramatic. People have been known to commit suicide or murder, lapse into depression, have abortions, become divorced, and take toxic medications. (2) Tragically, these dramatic actions were triggered by a test that is far from foolproof.
In 1993, a group of Australian researchers published what would be the first substantial critique of the HIV antibody test. The article, entitled “Is a Positive Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?” was published in the journal Bio/Technology, a respected scientific publication affiliated with the British magazine Nature. The Australian researchers stated that the HIV test is seriously flawed on several counts: it is not standardized, so different labs will interpret the same results differently; it is not reproducible (the test fails when tested against itself); it cross-reacts with other, non-HIV proteins; and it lacks a true “gold standard.” Every diagnostic test must have a gold standard, which in this case would be HIV itself, but the authors argue this is impossible since the HIV virus has never been isolated in pure form. (3)
The scientists scrutinized the two most widely used HIV antibody tests — the “ELISA,” which is used to screen blood, and the “Western Blot” (WB), which is used to confirm a positive result on the ELISA. The problems apply to both tests.
The ELISA test, first developed in 1985, is highly sensitive and also extremely nonspecific, which means it gives a positive result even when there is no HIV present. As many as four out of five ELISA tests cannot be confirmed by Western Blot, (4) and yet it remains the most widely used test in the Third World, most notably Africa, where HIV is said to be rampant.
Citing the data from a mass HIV testing program undertaken by the U.S. military, the Australian researchers revealed some startling findings. There were, for instance, 4,000 people who had two positive ELISAs followed by a negative WB. Perhaps worse, there were 80 cases of people who had two positive ELISAs, a positive WB, followed by a negative follow-up WB.
In other words, those 80 people, outside the context of this study, would have gone home believing they were HIV positive, since a single positive WB qualifies a person as positive. But in fact they were negative.
Another problem with the test is that it is nonspecific. The test looks for patterns of proteins thought to be specific to HIV. One protein in particular, p24, is “currently believed to be synonymous with HIV isolation and viremia,” the study says. But the Australian researchers detected p24 antibodies in a number of people who were completely free of HIV, including one out of every 150 healthy people, about 13 percent of all people with generalized warts, and more than 40 percent of those with multiple sclerosis. On the other hand, they point out, p24 is not found in all AIDS patients.
But perhaps most troubling, the tests tend to cross-react with other microbes. The Bio/Technology articles describes a tribe of Amazonian Indians who have never had contact outside their tribe and who have no AIDS. And yet, 3.3 to 13.3 percent were HIV- positive by Western Blot. “The above data,” they speculated in their final report, means either that HIV is not in fact causing AIDS, “or, that the HIV antibody tests are non-specific.”
The test’s greatest failing in the eyes of those who’ve had to rely on it, however, is that it is not standardized. In the Australian study, one particular blood sample was sent 89 times to three different labs. It was reported to be positive 64 times, indeterminate 23 times, and negative once. There is such a broad, gray, “indeterminate” zone, in fact, that it’s often merely chance whether a given lab reads the result as positive or negative.
Christine Maggiore, president of the dissident AIDS-activist group HEAL in Los Angeles, experienced this first-hand. After initially testing HIV-positive, and going into the emotional tailspin that such a result often sets off, she subsequently repeated the test four more times, and got every possible result on the spectrum — positive, negative and indeterminate. “This is why I tell people not to take the test,” she says emphatically. “It’s just too unreliable. It shouldn’t be how we measure our health.” *
Celia Farber has written on the issues and controversies surrounding HIV, AZT, and AIDS for more than a decade. She is a regular contributor to Esquire, Spin, USA Today, and Gear, among other national publications. She is the mother of one son and resides with her family in New York City.
Notes:
1. P. Duesberg, Inventing the AIDS Virus (Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, 1996), 207-209.
2. J. Shenton, Positively False, 53-73.
3. E. P. Papadopoulous-Eleopulos and V. Turner, “Is a Positive Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?” Bio/Technology (2 June 1993): 696-707.
4. R. Root-Bernstein, Rethinking AIDS (New York: Free Press), 51.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS: IS ANYONE POSITIVE?
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:47:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/nheuropean.htm

AIDS: IS ANYONE POSITIVE?
By Neville Hodgkinson
The European, 22 June 1998
On 28 June scientists at the 12th World AIDS Conference in Geneva will hear arguments that a modern dogma, almost universally accepted, is flawed in a fundamental and dangerous way. This is the idea, first propounded at an international press conference in the United States in April 1984 and adopted almost immediately worldwide, that the cause of AIDS is a deadly virus, HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).
The theory seemed validated scientifically when Dr Robert Gallo, of the US National Institutes of Health, published four long papers in a single issue of the journal Science purporting to have identified the new virus as the primary cause of AIDS and to have produced a diagnostic test for it. The hypothesis became the basis of an industry that has since received tens of billions of dollars for research and treatment in Europe and North America, with more than $ 45bn contributed by US taxpayers alone. Gallo’s apparent discovery was hailed as adding “another miracle to the long honour roll of American medicine and science”, although it was to herald a worldwide panic over sex, with predictions that millions would die as the virus surreptitiously spread.
Yet according to a group of scientists who are for the first time being given an opportunity to put their ideas before the world AIDS community, basic checks needed to establish the nature and even the existence of such a virus were never completed. Evidence accumulated by these critics indicates that genetic and biochemical signals that gave rise to the HIV theory are better understood as arising from within the body’s immune cells, rather than as a consequence of invasion by a deadly new microbe.
Various prolonged stresses on the body can cause these signals to appear. They include infection by a range of known germs; exposure to other people’s bodily fluids such as blood and semen; and assaults on the body by some medical and recreational drugs. Malnutrition also plays a part, especially in parts of Asia and Africa, because it greatly increases vulnerability to chronic infections such as tuberculosis and leprosy that also cause a person to test “HIV” positive.
According to this view, antibodies detected in the blood with the “HIV” test are non-specific: they do not mean a person is infected with a particular virus that is slowly destroying their immune system. The test should therefore be scrapped. The same is true of so-called “viral counts”, technology that picks up altered levels of certain genetic sequences in the body. This genetic activity is connected with immune system activation but has never been shown to relate to a specific virus. The multi-billion-dollar effort to develop drugs or a vaccine targeting “HIV” should be reappraised, as it is unlikely to get to the root of the problem of AIDS and may have been adding to the suffering of victims.
In short, “HIV” is a myth, along with many of the beliefs accompanying the theory. The pictures of the virus that have appeared around the world are artists’ impressions and computer simulations, based on indirect observations by molecular biologists, not isolation of the virus itself.
The scientist at the centre of this amazing critique is Eleni Eleopulos, of the department of medical physics, Royal Perth Hospital, in Western Australia. An expert on cell oxidation, she recognised 14 years ago that the phenomena claimed to show the presence of a new virus in AIDS might instead be arising from mechanisms of cell stress. She has been researching the issue ever since.
Eleopulos is supported by Dr Valendar Turner, an emergency physician who has also dedicated years of work to an analysis of AIDS science; Dr David Causer, Eleopulos’s head of department; and Dr John Papadimitriou, professor of pathology at the University of Western Australia, an internationally renowned expert on electron microscopy. All four are to present their case, via a satellite link-up from Perth, in a two-hour symposium at the world conference entitled “HIV Testing: Open Questions Regarding Specificity”.
Dr Etienne de Harven, former professor of pathology at the University of Toronto, who pioneered a method of purifying viruses during 25 years’ work at the Sloan Kettering Institute in New York, is also taking part in the symposium. Now based in France, he agrees with Eleopulos’s dramatic claim that HIV researchers have failed to demonstrate the existence of “HIV” in AIDS patients. Recent attempts to make good this omission, with electron microscope studies that should have been done 15 years ago, produced “disastrous” results, he says, suggesting “billions of research dollars gone up in smoke”.
Other participants will include Dr Stefan Lanka, a German virologist who has also argued against the HIV hypothesis; Huw Christie, editor of Continuum, a UK-based AIDS magazine which has offered a £ 1,000 “missing virus” award to the first person finding a scientific paper establishing actual isolation of HIV; and science journalist Joan Shenton, author of Positively False, a recent book about controversies surrounding HIV and AIDS.
The session is hosted by the Geneva-based International Forum for Accessible Science (IFAS), an umbrella group which has brought together scientists, gay health activists and human rights workers seeking to highlight radical challenges to current AIDS research, diagnosis and treatment strategies.
Michael Baumgartner, the organisation’s founder and secretary, who used to serve as an AIDS chaplain at San Francisco General Hospital, said that voices of dissent on the HIV hypothesis have been growing stronger from within the scientific community. The dissidents had presented more and more “conclusive” work. In addition, he said, organisations of people living with the label of either “HIV” or AIDS were irritated by the failure of the latest treatment approaches and losing faith in the orthodox views. The decision to allow the claimed flaws in HIV science to be examined at the conference was “historic”.
The conference’s scientific programme co-ordinators turned down a request for a full plenary session. However, IFAS has been granted free facilities for the two-hour symposium as a complement to the official programme. The decision was made by the conference executive after support from the Global Network of People Living With AIDS and the International Community of Women Living with HIV/AIDS, two of the five co-sponsors of the conference. Baumgartner says Dr Bernard Hirschel, the conference chairman, also indicated that he sees the importance of clarifying the issues raised by IFAS.
The implications of the challenge are enormous, in commercial as well as human terms. The US Patent and Trademark Office has awarded more than 1,500 patents based on the belief that HIV is both real and dangerous. Companies producing tests that screen blood for evidence of HIV and its purported effects on immune system cells make millions of dollars yearly. New tests are now being marketed for estimating levels of genetic activity attributed to HIV – so-called “viral load” assays. The latest thinking is that an “HIV-positive” person should be tested in this way four times a year.
Although AIDS cases are plummeting in many parts of the world, sales growth is anticipated in this area of managing what has come to be known as “HIV disease”. Sales of diagnostic and monitoring kits totalled $ 186m in 1995 in the US alone and were predicted to rise by 50 per cent within five years.
Still more lucrative is the rapidly growing market for combinations of expensive drugs claimed to be therapeutic in “HIV disease”, such as Glaxo Wellcome’s Combivir, approved by the European Commission this year. Sales are not just directed towards AIDS patients but to the much larger groups who, according to the orthodox view, are in the grip of a viral illness that is slowly wearing down their immune system years before symptoms develop. By last year, cumulative worldwide sales of Glaxo Wellcome’s AZT, the first “anti-HIV therapy”, had exceeded $ 2.5bn, despite severe concerns about its toxicity.
AIDS grew into a multi-billion-dollar business when it was claimed in the mid-1980s that the virus “does not discriminate” and that it would be only a matter of time before it swept through the world’s sexually active populations. The huge investment of money and energy made it difficult for ideas about the nature of the illness to change. Government and industry scientists, as well as public health officials, AIDS advocacy groups, journal editors and specialist correspondents became defensive.
The response to the first major critique of the HIV theory, by Dr Peter Duesberg, professor of molecular biology at the University of California at Berkeley, was bewilderment, followed by fury. Duesberg had been voted Californian Scientist of the Year for his discoveries in the field of retroviruses (of which HIV is supposed to be one). He argued in 1987 that HIV could not be doing the damage attributed to it, because it was so difficult to find in the body, even in a person dying of AIDS. He postulated that an explosion in the use of recreational drugs during the 1970s was probably the main cause of AIDS. He was first ignored and then pilloried for persisting with his views. He lost a $ 350,000 “outstanding investigator” award and became an embarrassment to his university, which, while unable to fire him, reduced him to chairing its annual picnic committee.
The past 10 years have shown Duesberg to have been right on several counts. He stated that HIV could not kill immune cells, that AIDS would not become a heterosexual epidemic and that the anti-viral drug AZT would kill rather than cure. On all three issues, the evidence has gone his way.
The Perth group’s still more fundamental challenge to the HIV theory, despite its almost incredible contradiction to received wisdom, fits the facts even better than Duesberg’s. It bypasses one of the principal objections to Duesberg’s position: the close relationship, confirmed in numerous studies, between testing HIV-positive and risk of illness. According to Eleopulos, the relationship is real, even though HIV is not. When antibodies are present in the blood at levels that cause a person to test positive, this may well indicate an abnormal immune system state. However, the abnormalities are not caused by “HIV” but by factors in patients’ lives that overstimulate their immune cells. These factors may be either toxic or infectious in nature. Sometimes the stimuli are only temporary – even a dose of flu, or a course of flu jabs, can cause a positive result. Longer-lasting assaults are the ones that may trigger a process leading to AIDS.
In a huge review article published in Bio/Technology, a sister journal to Nature, Eleopulos and her colleagues argued that none of the HIV tests marketed was ever properly validated by showing that protein reagents used to detect “HIV” antibodies really were connected to the virus. The reason this validation was never performed, they say, is that it proved impossible to isolate the virus from patients. The main means of attempting to confirm the usefulness of the tests was to show that antibodies which react with the test proteins were much more likely to be found in AIDS patients and people at risk of AIDS than in healthy people. However, all of those so-called “HIV” markers have been shown to have other sources within the body, so even if HIV existed the antibodies could not be said to signify its presence.
Huge confusion has been created by this situation. One review of the medical literature found no fewer than 70 different disease conditions, often involving an auto-immune response, documented as capable of triggering a positive result with the test.
If the scientists who maintain that “HIV” is a myth are right, their analysis holds a crucial message of hope for people who have tested positive. It means that, depending on how much damage has been caused, a person’s immune system may return to a normal, healthy state providing the compromising factors are removed. This explains why millions of “positive” people have stayed well for years, especially in poor countries unable to afford the anti-viral drugs, contrary to predictions based on the “deadly virus” view.
Even Africa, subjected by western scientists, AIDS agencies and the media to years of stories of impending doom because of HIV, may be beginning to emerge from the nightmare as it becomes widely understood that the predictions were wrong. A recent Time cover story, “Africa Rising”, acknowledged that “after decades of famine and war, life is finally looking up for many Africans.” In 11 pages, there was not one mention of HIV or AIDS. New African magazine, which circulates across the continent, has called for an international inquiry to establish the truth about AIDS. It says “alarmist and exaggerated” forecasts made by western experts, supported by the World Health Organisation, have done immeasurable harm to African confidence and the way Africans are seen abroad.
Tragically, there is much evidence that the “HIV” diagnosis itself has killed many. Apart from causing suicides and other deaths related to the psychological stress involved, the diagnosis led doctors to prescribe highly toxic drugs to try to defeat the virus. Some of the most experienced physicians, such as Dr Donald Abrams, professor of medicine and director of the AIDS programme at San Francisco General Hospital, have begun to awaken to the disaster. In a lecture to medical students of the University of California at San Francisco, reported in their magazine, Synapse, Abrams said: “People who have chosen not to take any antiretrovirals … watched all of their friends go on the antiviral bandwagon and die.”
For the most part, the AIDS mainstream has maintained silence about these and many other findings that undermine the “HIV” beliefs. When pressed, the typical response has been to assert that only a handful of “maverick” scientists are questioning the orthodoxy. Most professionals have had little opportunity to know any different, because the main journals refused access to their pages. Professor Gordon Stewart, a British public health expert and former World Health Organisation adviser, concluded as far back as 1985 that lifestyle and behaviour factors were probably central to AIDS. His predictions about the pattern of the epidemic proved more accurate than those based on the virus theory. However, years of efforts to persuade Nature and the Royal Society, the national academy of science for the UK, to publish his analyses came to nothing.
In fact, thousands of scientists and AIDS experts around the world have concluded that the “lethal virus” theory of AIDS is inadequate. Several hundred of these, including two Nobel prize winners, have gone public on the issue. Through an organisation called the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis, set up six years ago, they have been pressing the scientific community to re-examine the cause or causes of AIDS. Support for this call is growing as a result of the construction of two dissident websites. One of these (http://www.virusmyth.com) contains more than 250 articles.
The webmaster is Robert Laarhoven, a Dutch AIDS analyst who four years ago was ejected from the 10th World AIDS Conference in Berlin after he persisted in setting out literature concerning the dissident case on an unused table. He was threatened with arrest and expulsion from Germany if he returned. Gay activists who set fire to some of the literature were left unimpeded. Will it be different this time, in Geneva? While the conference executive’s decision to allow IFAS a platform is welcome, much will depend on whether both lay and scientific delegates are sufficiently wearied by the failings of the HIV theory to contemplate an alternative.
Unease over the state of AIDS science is certainly growing. The last World AIDS Conference, two years ago in Vancouver, Canada, was dominated by jubilant claims that new pharmaceutical cocktails, including a class of drugs called protease inhibitors, were dramatically beneficial in some cases of AIDS. A “Lazarus effect” was reported, in which patients were said to be rising from their sickbeds and returning to productive life. There were hopes that these aggressive combination therapies, costing around $ 20,000 a year (including the cost of the “viral counts” that accompany them), could eliminate HIV from some patients.
Last year, a different story was emerging. HIV, it was now stated, mutated so fast that it was evading the pharmaceutical onslaught. It also had “hiding places” in the body. “Despite new AIDS drugs, many still lose the battle”, the New York Times reported in August. From Germany, doctors stated that “… the favourable results from controlled studies with antiretroviral drugs containing protease inhibitors cannot simply be translated into everyday clinical practice”. Even the most passionate advocates of the new approaches have admitted there is “one dark cloud on the horizon”, as a report in The Lancet put it: human behaviour. Up to a half of patients find it impossible to swallow all their pills as prescribed, becoming “treatment failures”. This is not just because of the complicated regimen, involving taking around 20 tablets a day. Bizarre and dangerous side-effects are beginning to emerge. “These reports tell us that protease inhibitors are not as specific in their effects on the virus as we thought,” said Dr John Mellors, of the University of Pittsburgh, at a conference in February this year. “They also hit the patient.”
Recent claims in the New England Journal of Medicine that rapid falls in AIDS cases and deaths are attributable to the use of the more intensive drug treatments were not based on a scientific trial but on a study wide open to bias. Besides, the falls began well before the new treatments were introduced.
AIDS doctors earnestly want to find something to show for the billions of dollars put into the HIV theory, but their desperation is clouding their judgment, according to some scientists. Dr David Rasnick, a biochemist and US AIDS researcher who worked with protease inhibitors for 20 years, pointed out last year that none of the recently lauded drugs in that class approved by the US Food and Drug Administration had completed a full clinical trial. Instead, trials are stopped before potential problems emerge. For example, a 1,200-person trial was halted prematurely in February last year because there were 18 deaths in a group receiving two anti-viral drugs, compared with only eight deaths in a group receiving three, including a protease inhibitor. This result was presented as meaning the protease inhibitor cocktail reduces deaths by half but even the trial leader admitted that with 1,200 people being studied, the difference had not reached statistical significance. Much the same happened with AZT, the first alleged “gold standard” of AIDS treatment: in a four-year Anglo-French study it was shown to be bringing a 25 per cent rise in deaths in those receiving the drug compared with those given a placebo.
Contrary to the impression given by the media, there are now thousands of dissenters to the HIV theory. It took root in the medical mind only 15 years ago but on its basis more than 100,000 papers have been published. Much courage and humility will be needed by the medical profession to look at it afresh. The longer the arguments over virus isolation and the validity of the test remain unacknowledged, the greater the potential crisis for medical science.
Will Geneva rise to this challenge? Or will it insist, as a former editor of Nature has done of the HIV hypothesis, that “there is no other and thus no choice”? *

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] NEW DOUBTS OVER AIDS INFECTION AS HIV TEST DECLARED INVALID
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:46:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/nhtests.htm

NEW DOUBTS OVER AIDS INFECTION AS HIV TEST DECLARED INVALID
By Neville Hodgkinson
The Sunday Times (London) 1 Aug. 1993

The “AIDS test” is scientifically invalid and incapable of determining whether people are really infected with HIV, according to a new report by a team of Australian scientists who have conducted the first extensive review of research surrounding the test.
Doctors should think again about its use, say the authors. “A positive HIV status has such profound implications that nobody should be required to bear this burden without solid guarantees of the verity of the test and its interpretation,” they conclude.
The findings, likely to cause intense debate in the medical fraternity and anguish for many HIV-positive people, are contained in an article published by the respected science journal, BioTechnology.
Many people who appear to be infected with HIV, say the researchers, can be suffering from other conditions such as malaria or malnutrition that produce a positive result in the test. Even flu jabs can produce the same effect. As a result, predictions by the World Health Organisation (WHO) that millions are set to die because of being HIV-positive may be wildly inaccurate.
The paper also lends powerful support to the theory, held by growing numbers of scientists, that HIV is not the true cause of AIDS. One of its authors, Eleni Eleopulous, a biophysicist at the Royal Perth Hospital, said this weekend: “There is no proof that people labelled as ‘HIV-positive’ are infected with such a retrovirus. We should really question the role of ‘HIV’ in the causation of AIDS.”
Overall, the findings “mean the tests have not been scientifically evaluated”, she said.
The authors say that neither of the two main HIV tests used have been adequately checked for accuracy. These tests rely on detecting antibodies to HIV in blood samples. But people whose immune systems have been activated by several other conditions, including tuberculosis and multiple sclerosis, can trigger the same reaction, giving a false-positive result.
Promiscuous homosexual men, illicit drug users, multiple blood transfusion recipients such as haemophiliacs and people subject to multiple infections become increasingly liable to give a positive result the longer their immune system is weakened, regardless of HIV.
To have confidence in antibody tests, they must first be validated by having their results checked against a “gold standard” that is, isolation of the virus itself. However, this has never been done with the AIDS test. The report adds that a procedure used to confirm the validity of diagnostic tests by looking for a virus’s genetic material has also been shown to produce false results and cannot be considered as synonymous with isolating the virus.
The AIDS tests look for the detection of a protein called p24, generally considered the equivalent of isolating the virus. However, it has been detected in one out of 150 healthy individuals, 13% of people suffering from warts a condition that signals a weakened immune system and 41% of patients with multiple sclerosis, another immune system disorder.
Heavy exposure to sperm can also set up an antibody reaction, especially when entering the body through anal intercourse. It is another probable source of false-positives.
The WHO, which is seeking an extra £ 2billion a year for its AIDS prevention programme, estimates that about 14m people have been infected with HIV worldwide. It claims the total will reach 30-40m by the year 2,000, and that most will eventually contract AIDS.
Developing countries are said to face the biggest threat, with Africa alone already having an estimated 8m HIV-infected people. However, according to the BioTechnology report, these are the countries where the tests may be at their most unreliable because of widespread ill-health caused by other diseases. Severe malnutrition and multiple infections are especially likely to produce a misleading result in the test. Claims that current AIDS tests are virtually 100% accurate are based on studies of healthy subjects.
Eleopulous said that the paper, which underwent detailed scrutiny by other experts, concentrates on the shortcomings of one of two main categories of “AIDS test” known as “western blot”, generally considered the more definitive of the two.
However, she said doubts were even stronger over the validity of the other test, called Elisa. This is usually administered first but is widely acknowledged to carry a high risk of false-positives.
Screening with Elisa in Russia in 1991 produced 30,000 positive tests, of which only 66 were confirmed using western blot. In the United States, a study among military applicants produced 6,000 individuals with an initially positive but subsequently negative Elisa test.
Dr Philip Mortimer, of the virus reference division at Britain’s Public Health Laboratory Service, accepted last week that some fair points about the weakness of the western blot had been made, but he rejected claims that Elisa was even worse. He maintained that the situation described in the article was not typical of this country, where there is less reliance on western blot.
An initial positive test would be followed by a combination of different Elisa tests, although sometimes including western blot, and a test of a follow-up specimen, said Mortimer. “Only if the positive reactions on both specimens are confirmed, usually in a reference laboratory, is a positive report issued.”
He believed there was no evidence that people had been falsely told in Britain that they were HIV-positive.
The findings have been welcomed by Professor Peter Duesberg, a top American virologist who maintains that HIV is not the cause of AIDS. He said the evidence helped to explain how “a false correlation” had been found between “HIV” antibodies and AIDS.
“The whole virus hypothesis of AIDS is based on this correlation,” he said. “Its proponents have nothing else: no mechanism whereby HIV could do the damage attributed to it, no animal tests, no cure, no vaccine, no virus activity.
“They have nothing conventional in terms of virus-disease argument, except this correlation with antibodies. If this study is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, it means that even that is now falling apart.”
The findings have already led to a call by the New York Native, an influential gay newspaper, for legal action against the American government by relatives of people who have killed themselves, or suffered toxic effects from taking the anti-viral drug AZT, as a result of positive HIV tests.
Charles Ortleb, the editor, said: “If the test doesn’t work, and if people really don’t know that they are infected, the whole thing needs to be rethought … This should be given high priority by the research establishment. We think that as a practical matter, no one should trust this test.” *

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FEDERAL INQUIRY FINDS MISCONDUCT BY A DISCOVERER OF THE AIDS VIRUS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:45:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/phgallonyt.htm

FEDERAL INQUIRY FINDS MISCONDUCT BY A DISCOVERER OF THE AIDS VIRUS
By Philip J. Hilts
New York Times 31 Dec. 1992
After three years of investigations, the Federal Office of Research Integrity today found that Dr. Robert C. Gallo, the American co-discoverer of the cause of AIDS, had committed scientific misconduct. The investigators said he had “falsely reported” a critical fact in the scientific paper of 1984 in which he described isolating the virus that causes AIDS.
The new report said Dr. Gallo had intentionally misled colleagues to gain credit for himself and diminish credit due to his French competitors. The report also said that his false statement had “impeded potential AIDS research progress” by diverting scientists from potentially fruitful work with the French researchers.
Dr. Gallo has faced questions about his scientific claims ever since the paper was published in Science magazine in April 1984. Most of his critics argued that Dr. Gallo had tried to take credit for work that the French had done and that he may even have taken the virus the French were studying and claimed it as his own. At the time, the virus was difficult to isolate and grow in sufficient quantity for researchers.
Also charged with the misconduct was Dr. Mikulas Popovic, a Czechoslovak immigrant who actually carried out the crucial AIDS experiments under Dr. Gallo.
Maintains Innocence
Dr. Gallo said today that he was not guilty and would appeal the decision. “After reviewing everything I and my colleagues have ever published on the discovery of the AIDS virus and the development of the AIDS blood test, the office of Research Integrity could only take issue with few trivial mistakes and a single sentence written by me.”
The Federal conclusions are “utterly unwarranted,” he said. “On a broader level,” he added, “this endless and incompetent Government investigation should be of concern to everybody seeking to advance medical knowledge. My laboratory’s contributions to the advancement of medical science are undisputed. For the past three years, however, I have spent a substantial amount of my time responding to issues” raised in the investigations.
The Office of Research Integrity was created this year in the Department of Health and Human Services to handle the final review of scientific misconduct cases within agencies like the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The only remaining step for Dr. Gallo is to appeal the case to a judicial board within the department.
Little Credit for French
The report said Dr. Gallo intentionally misled scientific colleagues by saying he had grown an AIDS virus in his laboratory for study and he had not grown or studied a similar French strain of the virus. In fact, Dr. Gallo himself had grown the French virus and used it in furthering his own research, the report said.
While searching for the cause of AIDS, Dr. Gallo had received a sample of a virus being studied by French researchers and had worked extensively with it to extend his own discoveries, the Federal report concluded. Dr. Gallo left little credit for the French scientists in his 1984 paper because he said he had not been able to grow enough of the French AIDS virus: It “has not been transmitted to a permanently growing cell line for true isolation and therefore has been difficult to obtain in quantity,” he wrote.
Dr. Gallo has said that this sentence meant simply that the virus was hard for anyone to grow it, not that he himself had failed to grow it. In fact, investigators showed that the French virus had been grown in cell lines in Dr. Gallo’s own laboratory, and worked with there.
Referring to the sentence, the new report said, “Dr. Gallo falsely reported the status of L.A.V. research when he wrote the statement, and this constitutes scientific misconduct.” L.A.V. refers to the French strain of the AIDS virus. The report went on, “The explanations that Dr. Gallo proffered for the statement are neither credible when the evidence is considered, nor do they vitiate the impropriety of falsely reporting the status of L.A.V. research.
In addition, the report found that Dr. Gallo warranted censure on these four other counts:
• Referring to his role as a referee for a different article submitted to a journal by his French competitors, in which he altered several lines to favor his own hypothesis about the AIDS virus, the report said the revisions were “gratuitous, self-serving and improper.”
• As to the many errors in the 1984 paper, which was co-authored with Dr. Popovic, the report concluded, “In light of his role as senior author, Dr. Gallo must bear substantial responsibility for the numerous discrepancies, including four instances of scientific misconduct attributed to Dr. Popovic.”
• On the standards of Dr. Gallo’s laboratory record-keeping, the report said, “Especially in the light of the ground-breaking nature of this research and its profound public health implications, O.R.I. believes that the careless and unacceptable keeping of research records reflects irresponsible laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to trace the important steps taken.”
• Dr. Gallo, the report said, also failed to determine in a timely way the exact origin of some of the crucial cells in which he grew the finicky virus. Like the viruses themselves, the cells were also found to have been borrowed from another scientist without giving him due credit in the paper. Later Dr. Gallo also refused to share the cells freely with other scientists trying to duplicate the important work, the report said.
Inquiries Begun in 1989
The dispute over Dr. Gallo’s claims became so linked to national scientific prestige that the Presidents of France and the United States attempted to end the conflict in 1987 when they agreed to a 50-50 split of credit and patent royalties from work with the AIDS virus and the blood test to detect it.
But the issue did not go away, and Federal investigations were begun in 1989, after a reporter, John Crewdson, of the Chicago Tribune wrote a 50,000-word article laying out many of the charges against Dr. Gallo and his laboratory.
An initial Federal inquiry was conducted by the Office of Scientific Integrity at the Institutes of Health. That office examined all of the notes from Dr. Gallo’s laboratory on the AIDS research and interviewed scores of people involved in the work. That office’s report was turned over to the Office of Research Integrity.
Dr. Gallo has denied any wrongdoing in the most vehement terms. He has also alleged that there is a conspiracy to discredit him and asked why it is only his laboratory being investigated, and not that of Dr. Luc Montagnier, the French laboratory leader who has largely escaped detailed scrutiny.
What’s at Stake
In the great public health catastrophe of AIDS, the story of how the virus that causes AIDS was isolated and a test for the presence developed might be of only historical interest were it not for the fierce and unyielding pride of the researchers and the millions of dollars the two Governments receive annually in royalties from the manufacturers of the blood tests.
In a recent plea to the American Government, lawyers for the Institut Pasteur in Paris, where the French work was done, asked the United States to turn over half of the profits from the blood test – about $50 million since 1985.
Dr. Gallo earns about $100,000 a year from the royalties on the blood test, as does his French counterpart, Dr. Montagnier.
Michael Epstein, a lawyer for the Institut Pasteur, said in a telephone interview today that in light of today’s report the French would ask the United States to renegotiate its agreement giving equal credit to each country, so as to assign a larger share to France.
“this ought to move the U.S. Government to action,” he said. “Dr. Gallo has always told us that he was never able to grow L.A.V. One of the most important reasons why Pasteur settled the dispute in 1987 was that Dr. Gallo told us that and said there was no evidence to the contrary. Now even the U.S. Government is saying that he knowingly lied.”
The new report reversed the findings by Dr. Bernadine Healy, director of the National Institute of Health and Dr. Gallo’s superior. After receiving the report from the Office of Scientific Integrity, she concluded in September 1991 that Dr. Gallo did a number of things wrong but was not guilty of the most serious charge, that of scientific misconduct.
Investigators at National Institutes of Health and in Congress disagreed, as did a panel of independent scientists. *

Years of Scientific Dispute
1983 French scientist under Luc Montagnier at Pasteur Institute report discovery of a virus that might be the cause of AIDS.
1984 Ignoring French claim, U.S. scientists at National Institutes of Health under Dr. Robert C. Gallo announce discovery of such a virus and proof that it causes AIDS.
1985 A blood test for antibodies to the AIDS virus is licensed. The French sue the U.S. Government over the credit for the discovery of the virus.
1987 President Ronald Reagan and Prime Minister Jacques Chirac announce an agreement on sharing credit and divide royalties for the blood test.
1989 A Chicago Tribune article suggests that Dr. Gallo improperly took credit for the Montagnier discovery.
MARCH 1990 A Tribune report asserts that Dr. Gallo’s virus was probably identical to the Pasteur Institute virus.
OCTOBER 1990 the National Institute of Health says it will open a full-scale investigation of the matter by the Office of Scientific Integrity because a preliminary investigation suggested the possibility of misconduct.
MAY 1991 Dr. Gallo formally concedes that the viral cultures were probably contaminated by the French samples but maintains that he is a co-discoverer.
SEPTEMBER 1991: Preliminary report by Office of Scientific Integrity finds evidence of misconduct by Dr. Gallo. Final report holds that he is not guilty of misconduct but deserves censure for permitting lapses and misrepresentations by those under him.
MARCH 1992 New investigation of charges of perjury and patent fraud announced by Inspector General of Department of Health and Human Services, the General Accounting Office and a house subcommittee.
DEC. 30 1992 Report of Office of Research Integrity of Department of Health and Human Services says Dr. Gallo grew a sample of Montagnier’s virus in his own laboratory, misled colleagues to gain credit for himself.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS: DEATH BY PRESCRIPTION
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:43:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/hkslahprotease.htm

AIDS: DEATH BY PRESCRIPTION
By Heinrich Kremer, Stefan Lanka & Alfred Hässig
Continuum, July/Aug. 1996

Protease inhibitors and antiviral drugs with mitochondrial toxicity: AIDS treatment with consecutive death.
The advertising drums are beaten hard all over the world today. The same doctors are calling for obedient candidates for their experiments and holding out the same promise of a cure who have poisoned countless AIDS patients by administering the DNA blocker AZT for the past ten years in an attempt to hunt down the phantom HI virus.
The same doctors are now trying to conjure up a substance from the test tube under the magic name of ‘protease inhibitor’ and to market it as having a limitless cure potential, although nobody in fact knows what long-term reactions this molecule, which has never been tested on man, may cause in the living organism.
The victims and perpetrators have only recently come to realise that AZT (also known as Zidovudine or Retrovir) has, in countless cases, brought about the inevitable and slow asphyxiation of the patient’s body cells, which are in particular need of oxygen and hence the equally inevitable death by poisoning of those persons who are stigmatised as HIV-positive or diagnosed as suffering from AIDS and who trust their doctors. Despite that realisation, new test candidates are already being sought who will be voluntarily prepared, through fear of death suggested by the medical profession, not only to swallow AZT in combination with allied toxic substances, but in addition to take an inhibitor which has an incalculable impact on cell metabolism.
A guarantee of success is secured in advance, as with AZT, because any fatal ‘secondary effects’ of the mixture are described as an outcome of the phantom HIV infection. These are the selfsame laboratory doctors and clinical practitioners who for years abused the confidence of anxious AIDS patients with the assertion that AZT would reliably, and with total certainty, prevent the proliferation of their ‘phantom’ HIV.
In reality the substance AZT is absorbed by a primary route through the DNA gamma-polymerase into the energy centre of all body cells, the mitochondria. Without the activity of the mitochondria as former bacteria, no body cell can produce the necessary energy from oxygen and make it available for the whole cell metabolism in the bound state in adenosine triphosphate (ATP).
The doctors who prescribe AZT have, however, denied this established fact and wrongly diagnosed the fatal consequences of AZT medication as the sequels of AIDS following a prior “HIV infection”. For example, clinical manifestations such as the wasting syndrome, HIV encephalopathy, cardiomyopathy, atrophy of the skeletal muscular system and opportunistic infections of all kinds affecting the patients are declared to be tragic consequences of AIDS.
AZT manifestly also damages the mitochondria of the same microbes (protozoa and fungi) which have become adjusted to the cellular metabolism of the body in the course of evolution without being normally pathogenic. In the case of serious damage to their energy production they may, however, undergo mutation into aggressive pathogens and may, known as opportunistic infections. The true opportunists therefore are the AIDS doctors who prescribe AZT. They have sought to drive out devils with Beelzebub!
And by doing so they demonstrate their ignorance of fundamental biological processes in the human organism.
But the dogmatic AIDS doctors have invented new tricks. Although, despite all the assertion to the contrary, no scientist has ever demonstrably produced a genome of the imaginary HIV which would be capable of causing infection they announce that they have traced minute fragments of the genetic material of HIV in RNA form and enriched these fragments; now they claim to be able to determine the precise quantity of HIV in the individual patient’s blood serum. lt remains a secret of the AIDS doctors to explain how they are able to identify the part as a whole, without ever having seen the whole. By the same token, researchers could conclude from the sight of a footprint on the banks of Loch Ness that the monster of the same name really does exist.
But they go on to develop a destructive logic on the basis of such arbitrary definitions. As the doctors claim on the pars pro toto principle that they can quantitatively determine the active amount of the HI virus in the individual stigmatised patient, they now prescribe “appropriate” quantities of AZT and similar toxic substances as a cocktail for the patient. A sufferer who is purported to have many fragments of the messenger substances of the genetic material of the HIV phantom in his or her blood serum, is described as an unfavourable case and receives the poison cocktail in correspondingly high doses; sooner or later the patient will be unable to escape his or her predicted fate because of the fatal toxic effects of the “medication”, especially as. depending on the individual patient’s reaction, the poison cocktails are varied and supplemented by protease inhibitors.
The purported “viral load” hides nothing but the measurement of particular messenger substances (RNA) in the blood plasma of selected patients. Sequences which resemble those that are defined as HIV-specific are then demonstrated. But it must be realised that such messenger substances occur in thousands of different variations, reflecting perfectly normal biochemical processes in the body, thousands of which take place simultaneously and in coordinated fashion in the metabolic interplay. Fluctuations, i.e. the increased or reduced occurrence of the sequences, are perfectly normal in this complex interplay of thousands of simultaneous metabolic processes. In the case of persons with a heightened cellular metabolism, e.g. persons under celldestructive medication (AZT, ddI etc.) and those suffering from multiple infections, these molecules may sometimes occur with a higher degree of probability, precisely because of the metabolic acceleration. The isolated presentation of measurements of a particular kind of sequence, which remains in any case totally impossible to quantify, is therefore clinically irrelevant in the absence of comparison with other molecules of this kind. There are also no comparative values which would enable any significance whatever to be attributed to these relative measurements.
Proteases are in fact protein enzymes which split protein molecules into the length required in each particular case by the metabolism. They are naturally rendered inactive within and outside the body cells by special inhibiting molecules until they are recovered by complex interactions between many different molecules. The body constantly produces such protease inhibitors, e.g. heparin and the heparinoids. The HIV hunters now claim to have produced protease inhibitors in the test tube which will specifically only inhibit those proteases that are said to be responsible for the proliferation of the hypothetical HIV. They want to measure the success of these protease inhibitors by a quantified reduction of the arbitrarily defined viral load (see above) and the relative increase of the T-helper cells.
ln other words, one fiction (virus blocking) is legitimated by another (viruslcquantification) The temporary increase of T-helper cells is brought about by the partial displacement of cells of this type from the bone marrow and other compartments into the bloodstream through temporary inhibition of the catabolic metabolism, which predominates in “HIV positive” patients.
However, in reality it is to be feared that sooner or later the unphysiological intervention in the complex interplay of body cell growth factors through artificial protease inhibitors will disturb equally vital functions of the basic tissue and cells, together with their mitochondrial energy centres, as is already the case when AZT and allied nucleoside-analogues are administered. However, as no animal model is available for preliminary clinical testing, the “HIV-positive” patients and “AIDS-sufferers” who go in fear of death must put their life on the line. Every test subject should therefore be aware that treatment with cocktails of AZT and allied toxic substances plus protease inhibitors may be equivalent to joining a suicide squad with a time fuse.
Finally, attention is drawn to the healthy organism where proteases and antiproteases are in equilibrium. Heparinoids at the cell surface are the normal antiproteases. An imbalance can be corrected by oral administration of heparinoids in the form of extracts of cartilage (chondroitinsulfate) and agar extracted from seaweeds. We suggest that anti-“HIV”-positive individuals take advantage of this simple and cheap possibility to correct a possible deficiency of antiproteases. *
Dr. Heinrich Kremer M.D. was medical director of the Specialist Clinic for Juvenile and Young Adult Drug Offenders for five German counties, including Berlin, Bremen, and Hamburg. With the German virologist Dr. Stefan Lanka he initiated the Research Group for Investigative Medicine and Journalism, reg!med. Immunologist Prof. Alfred Hässig, Professor Emeritus at the University of Bern, is a former Director of the Swiss Red Cross Transfusion Sevice, and former President of the Board of Trustees of the International Society of Blood Transfusion. With colleagues he formed the Study Group for Nutrition and Immunity.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] HIV precedes full blown AIDS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:41:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VMANN, I am sorry but I strongly disagree with you that HIV does not cause AIDS. The following includes only some of the reasons why.
This is not a new virus. We have known that individuals who are positive for HIV have pretty high incidence of developing full blown AIDS in the future.
Callie

The acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) was first recognized in 1981 and has since become a major worldwide pandemic. AIDS is caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). By leading to the destruction and/or functional impairment of cells of the immune system, notably CD4+ T cells, HIV progressively destroys the body’s ability to fight infections and certain cancers.
An HIV-infected person is diagnosed with AIDS when his or her immune system is seriously compromised and manifestations of HIV infection are severe. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) currently defines AIDS in an adult or adolescent age 13 years or older as the presence of one of 26 conditions indicative of severe immunosuppression associated with HIV infection, such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP), a condition extraordinarily rare in people without HIV infection. Most other AIDS-defining conditions are also “opportunistic infections” which rarely cause harm in healthy individuals. A diagnosis of AIDS also is given to HIV-infected individuals when their CD4+ T-cell count falls below 200 cells/cubic millimeter (mm3) of blood. Healthy adults usually have CD4+ T-cell counts of 600-1,500/mm3 of blood. In HIV-infected children younger than 13 years, the CDC definition of AIDS is similar to that in adolescents and adults, except for the addition of certain infections commonly seen in pediatric patients with HIV.
AIDS and HIV infection are invariably linked in time, place and population group.
Historically, the occurence of AIDS in human populations around the world has closely followed the appearance of HIV. In the United States, the first cases of AIDS were reported in 1981 among homosexual men in New York and California, and retrospective examination of frozen blood samples from a U.S. cohort of gay men showed the presence of HIV antibodies as early as 1978, but not before then. Subsequently, in every region, country and city where AIDS has appeared, evidence of HIV infection has preceded AIDS by just a few years (CDC. MMWR 1981;30:250; CDC. MMWR 1981;30:305; Jaffe et al. Ann Intern Med 1985;103:210; U.S. Census Bureau; UNAIDS).
Many studies agree that only a single factor, HIV, predicts whether a person will develop AIDS.
Other viral infections, bacterial infections, sexual behavior patterns and drug abuse patterns do not predict who develops AIDS. Individuals from diverse backgrounds, including heterosexual men and women, homosexual men and women, hemophiliacs, sexual partners of hemophiliacs and transfusion recipients, injection-drug users and infants have all developed AIDS, with the only common denominator being their infection with HIV (NIAID, 1995).
In cohort studies, severe immunosuppression and AIDS-defining illnesses occur almost exclusively in individuals who are HIV-infected.
For example, analysis of data from more than 8,000 participants in the Multicenter AIDS Cohort Study (MACS) and the Women’s Interagency HIV Study (WIHS) demonstrated that participants who were HIV-seropositive were 1,100 times more likely to develop an AIDS-associated illness than those who were HIV-seronegative. These overwhelming odds provide a clarity of association that is unusual in medical research (MACS and WIHS Principal Investigators, 2000).

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] VIRAL LOAD OF CRAP
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:39:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/chjppcrap.htm

VIRAL LOAD OF CRAP
By Paul Philpott & Christine Johnson
Reappraising AIDS October 1996

For those who still think that HIV causes AIDS, the latest fad — along with protease inhibitors — is “viral load.” There was a time not so long ago when one of the best arguments against the HIV theory was that there simply was not enough HIV in AIDS patients to account for any disease. Actually, it’s still one of the best arguments! No, you say? You’ve heard there’s some new technique that finds tons of HIV — high viral load — in AIDS patients? The old virus-counting method just wasn’t sensitive enough, they say. Here we take a look at this new technique, and find it sadly lacking. For one thing, it doesn’t measure HIV, it measures RNA associated with HIV. For another, nearly all of the RNA it finds is manufactured by the test itself! The load of HIV it measures is imaginary, and the theory it has spawned is, well, a load of crap.
In early 1995 research teams lead by David Ho [1] of New York University’s Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center and George Shaw [2] of the University of Alabama published adjacent papers in _Nature_. These papers were hailed as disproving the assertion that HIV is not active enough to cause the depletion of T4 cells observed in AIDS. Ho and Shaw claimed to have found an average of over 100,000 HIVs per mL of peripheral blood in their respective cohorts of AIDS patients. This was big news because all previous attempts to quantify HIV blood concentrations came up with averages of only about ten viruses per mL. [3]
Four years earlier, in 1991, two other research teams had made a similar claim, reporting that they found “massive covert HIV infections lurking in the lymph nodes” of AIDS patients. That also was big news because all previous attempts to quantify the fraction of T4 cells infected by HIV in AIDS patients had come up with a paltry average of only about one-per-500. [3]
Before the “lurking lymph node” and Ho/Shaw papers, HIV enthusiasts had a very hard time explaining how HIV could possibly cause AIDS. Not only had HIV shown up in low blood concentrations and in small fractions of cells, it had demonstrated itself to be non-cytotoxic, meaning that when it replicates, it does so without killing its host cell. When other viruses cause disease, they replicate in a manner that destroys the host cell, and are so prolific they show up at concentrations of hundreds of thousands to millions per mL of circulating blood, and infect one-third to two-thirds of all target cells. [3]
So by existing standards of virology, HIV should have been dismissed as a non-pathogen. Since all the early AIDS patients were shown to have unusual, biologically significant health factors such as street drug consumption, blood transfusions, and hemophilia, there really was no reason to pursue HIV as the only possible cause. But instead that’s just what happened.
TWO-FRONT WAR
The virus hunters needed to explain how HIV, a biochemically inactive virus, could cause devastating disease. They set off in two directions.
Some went searching for mechanisms to explain how a virus (a non-cytotoxic one) could cause the death of more cells than it infected. The others, including Ho and Shaw, went searching for HIV itself, hoping to find large amounts of it by mining untapped areas of the body and using new instruments.
The first direction led only to unverified ponderings: What if HIV-infected cells bumped into uninfected cells, and imparted to them a “kiss of death,” causing them to commit “cellular suicide” (known as apoptosis)? What if, by infecting even a few T4 cells, HIV caused T8 cells to kill all T4 cells, even those not infected?
Both of these ideas were warmly received and seriously considered by the best academic journals and the medical professoriate at large. Apparently nobody noticed that there were no confirmatory data. [3,4] Nor did anybody ask a very simple question: Why, if either of these ideas were true, did the many common viruses that infect immune cells — including some harbored by a majority of humans — do so without causing AIDS? [5]
The dearth of data and logical fallacy of these ideas should have marooned them. Instead they are both considered viable, though they’re no longer heard above the din of fabulous reports generated by scientists claiming to have finally uncovered lots of HIV.
IN SEARCH OF HIV
The HIV treasure hunters staked their first big claim in 1993, when _Nature_ published tandem papers, one by the University of Minnesota’s Ashley T. Haase, [6] the other by Anthony Fauci, [7] the government’s lead HIV researcher. Most previous HIV excavators looked only in the easy-to-access peripheral blood, the stuff that comes out when you prick your finger. These authors removed the lymph nodes — in which a majority of immune cells reside — from the bodies of HIV-positive subjects, some with AIDS, some without. The authors claimed to have found “massive” amounts of HIV-infected T4 cells there, and confirmed that the general circulation contained very little. “Massive covert infection,” Haase’s team called it.
Immediately HIV was accepted as the agent responsible for wiping out the T4 population by some novel, unspecified process somehow limited to the lymph nodes.
The Ho/Shaw studies arrived two years later, in 1995, also in the form of adjacent papers published in _Nature_. [1,2] Using a new virus-counting technique, they claimed to have found “massive” amounts of HIV (as opposed to infected cells) in the peripheral blood of AIDS patients, and also specified a “covert” mechanism of AIDS pathogenesis.
THE “NEW VIEW” IS BORN
Ho and Shaw combined their claims with those made in the lymph node papers and developed the “New View of HIV” [8] (also known as the “viral load hypothesis”) which claims that:
1. Although infected cells do not die as a result of HIV replication, HIV replication is hyperactive. Infected cells churn out huge numbers of new HIV, resulting in a large portion of T4 cells in the lymph nodes becoming infected.
2. T8 cells, which kill any host cell harboring an active (virus-producing) infection, kill the T4 cells that are actively producing HIV.
3. Uninfected T4 cells replicate quickly in order to replace those killed by the T8 cells.
4. Because this process occurs quickly, few infected cells ever get a chance to make it to the general circulation. As a result, clinicians drawing blood samples had previously concluded, erroneously, that only a low percentage of T4 cells are HIV-infected.
5. Although few infected cells ever make it out of the lymph nodes, lots of HIV does, and it is this HIV that Ho and Shaw claim to count with their new technique.
6. Over time — about a decade — the T4 population wears down trying to replace all of its members killed by the T8 cells.
7. There is no latency period for HIV. From the moment of initial infection, there is hyperactive HIV replication that quickly spreads to a large portion of T4 cells in the lymph nodes. This “massive covert infection,” and the hyperactive “turnover” of T4 cells and HIV, continues unabated throughout a decade or more of clinical latency (no symptoms), into AIDS, and ultimately causes the patient to die.
According to this new view, the course of AIDS is best monitored by using the Ho/Shaw technique for measuring “viral load.” Adherents recommend treatment immediately upon infection with powerful “antivirals,” including old ones like AZT and new ones like protease inhibitors, and judge the efficacy of these drugs by the impact on “viral load.”
DEBUNKING VIRAL LOAD
Ho and Shaw’s viral load concept requires — even among symptom-free people who test HIV-positive — that there be massive HIV infections in the lymph nodes, that HIV be hyperactive, and that HIV be present at high levels in the circulating blood. But the viral load theory is falsified by both data and logic.
HIV-positive people, even if they have AIDS, tend to have only insignificant HIV infections in their lymph nodes, even according to Haase and Fauci’s own data:
1. Hasse studied just four HIV positive patients, three AIDS-free subjects who died of injection drug overdose, and one homosexual who died of “AIDS” while taking AZT. Although on average one-per-five lymph node T4 cells were HIV-infected (a hundred times more than the one-per-500 normally found in the periphery), one of the drug injectors had no infected cells at all. Only one-per-500 of the lymph node T4 cells were actively infected (one-per-100 of the one-per-five that were infected). Yet only actively infected cells qualify as being relevant to the viral load mechanism, because only actively infected T4 cells are killed by T8 cells.
2. Inexplicably, of the 12 patients Fauci studied, immune cell infection ratios are given only for three of them, and even then these data report mononuclear cells in general, as opposed to just those mononuclear cells with the CD4 markers that are targeted by HIV. For the three selected subjects, Fauci reported HIV-infection ratios ranging from one-per-100 to one-per-10,000 mononuclear cells in the lymph nodes for the two who were symptom-free, and between one-per-ten and one-per-100 for the subject with AIDS. He commented that, compared with the infection ratios found in the peripheral blood, this is “in agreement with our previous study [which showed that] there is between 5 and 10 times greater frequency of infected cells in the lymphoid tissue” for symptom-free people who are HIV-positive. Given the very small ratios Fauci found, this paper does not show anything resembling massive HIV infections in the lymph nodes.
3. In Fauci’s “previous study,” [9] he examined six HIV-positive subjects, five with no symptoms, one with AIDS. Again, he presented data for only some of the subjects, but this time the data were for T4 cells only. “We determined that one-per-100 lymph node CD4 T lymphocytes were infected with HIV, whereas one-per-1,000 were infected in peripheral blood,” he concluded, hardly a case for “massive infection.”
4. Fauci and Haase propose that HIV infection is different from other viral infections because it is hidden in the lymph nodes. Yet neither they nor anybody else show HIV as being more confined to the lymph nodes than any other virus that infects immune cells. In fact, concentrations of all such viruses are always greater in the lymph nodes than in the circulation. No data have ever been presented showing that the proportion of HIV-infected cells in AIDS patients is greater than the proportion of immune cells infected by these other viruses.
5. All other viruses believed to cause disease do so only when they infect about one-per-three target cells — or more — and do so actively, [3] meaning virus is being produced. Although Haase found an infection ratio in three of his patients that was significant, the ratio of cells actively infected was trivial. And Fauci, who examined more subjects than Haase in two different studies, could find only insignificant ratios of inactive infections.
6. Significant infections in the lymph nodes cause a noticeable swelling that is usually not found in AIDS patients. Fauci and Haase did not even attempt to reconcile their claims of “massive” lymph node infections with the lack of this clinical symptom.
There is neither high HIV activity nor high viral load in HIV-positive people, even if they have AIDS, even according to Ho and Shaw’s own data:
1. Rather than being hyperactive, HIV is one of the least active viruses ever studied. In the test tube, it is very difficult to induce infected cells to produce any HIV at all. [3,4] Usually, powerful, artificial stimulating agents called “mitogens” must be used to coax HIV to reproduce. Yet in the test tube infected cells produce much more virus than they do in the patient, where an active immune system works to suppress viral expression. [3] There is no rationale for why a virus that is dormant in the test tube could be active in the body.
2. There is no large number of circulating HIV as Ho and Shaw claim, although this is the linchpin of their theory. Rather than look for whole HIV, Ho and Shaw’s technique looks for HIV RNA, the genetic material found in the viral core. They assume that since each HIV contains two HIV RNAs, there must be one HIV for every two HIV RNAs they count. But the large amount of HIV RNA they report is found only after sending blood samples through polymerase chain reactions (PCR). PCR is the “DNA fingerprinting” technology which takes tiny numbers of genetic molecules (RNA or DNA) and turns them into huge quantities. This is how police can transform a speck of blood into a large sample of criminal evidence. One of the most startling aspects of the Ho/Shaw papers is that they reported finding over a hundred thousand HIVs per mL of peripheral blood, whereas all previous studies had found on average about ten, far too little for pathogenic effect. Although they don’t mention it in their famous viral load papers, on other studies both Ho [10] and Shaw [11] quantified HIV using standard virus-counting techniques and compared the results with their new method of counting HIV RNA following PCR. The result: 100,000 HIVs counted using their PCR technique corresponded to less than ten actual HIVs! [12] In other words, Ho and Shaw’s subjects had the same low numbers of HIV that have always been observed in AIDS patients. But if there are only ten HIVs, how did Ho and Shaw measure an extra 99,990? Some of these are HIVs that have been neutralized by antibodies, some are defective HIVs (those that did not form correctly), and some are free-floating HIV RNA. Though none of these entities has any pathological capacity, the viral load technique confuses them all with whole, infectious virus, the only kind that has any biological significance. Most of Ho and Shaw’s “viral load,” though, is probably just a mirage, huge numbers of HIV RNA bits generated by PCR, not whole RNA generated by HIV. [12] This explanation reconciles all the facts: a slow-replicating virus that infects only a very small fraction of cells (even in the lymph nodes) and is present in infectious form only at tiny concentrations.
3. If there were a lot of HIV in the periphery, it should infect lots of T4 cells. Instead, Ho and Shaw acknowledge there are few T4 cells infected in the periphery.
4. No explanation is given as to why the standard virus-counting techniques (that show low HIV levels in AIDS patients) should be discarded in favor of Ho and Shaw’s new PCR method.
5. The Ho/Shaw PCR technique has never been validated by counting HIV RNA prior to application of PCR. After PCR is used, the Ho/Shaw method uses a conventional RNA-counting technique. If there is really lots of HIV, there should be lots of HIV RNA before application of PCR. Why not skip the PCR and just count the HIV RNA that is already there? Ho and Shaw probably use PCR for the same reason that everyone, including the police, use it: their samples don’t contain as much genetic material as they want.
6. Since all the subjects examined by Ho and Shaw had late stage AIDS, even if there were high HIV loads, there is no rationale for concluding that this would also be the case in symptom-free patients. Yet it is essential for the Ho/Shaw thesis that HIV be active in the years of gradual immune suppression leading to AIDS. Otherwise, they are left to explain how it is that HIV can be inactive while driving the patient from symptom-free status to AIDS.
The viral load concept requires that HIV be an extraordinary virus, but no data are ever presented comparing HIV to other viruses:
1. There are many common viruses that infect various immune cells, including T4 cells. Among them, cytomegalovirus (which infects 40% of all Americans), Epstein-Barr virus (50%), hepatitis B virus (5%), herpes simplex virus-1 (65%), and -2 (40%). [4] T8 cells kill any cells harboring active infections with these viruses. Since these viruses do not cause AIDS, there is no reason to suppose that HIV might. And since these viruses are cytotoxic and actively infect one-third or more of their target cells, they are better candidates than HIV for AIDS causation.
2. These other viruses cause disease only when they manifest as acute infections, infecting about one-third or more of the cells they target, and are present in the blood at concentrations in excess of many thousand per mL. There is no logical reason to suppose that HIV can cause disease when actively infecting only tiny fractions of target cells and showing up only at trace blood concentrations.
3. Ho and Shaw imply that HIV is more active than these other viruses, but present no comparative data. However, the only available data for HIV show it to be very inactive, which is consistent with the low fractions of actively-infected cells that Fauci and Haase found, and the low levels of real virus that Ho and Shaw found.
4. All the early AIDS patients were positive for these other viruses. [5] When these viruses show up as acute infections in AIDS patients, HIV advocates consider them to be “opportunists,” springing out of dormancy to take advantage of an immune system suppressed by HIV. Even if AIDS patients all had acute HIV infections (which clearly they do not), there is no logical reason to suppose that HIV is not just another opportunist taking advantage of an immune system suppressed by something else (street drugs, pharmaceutical drugs, etc.).
5. There exist no published data documenting the results of using the Ho/Shaw PCR technique for counting these other viruses either in AIDS patients or anybody else. Most people positive for these other viruses do not have the diseases they are known to cause, so they do not suffer from acute infections. Would Ho and Shaw “find” in such people the same high concentrations of these other viruses that their new technique registers for HIV in AIDS patients? If so, this would confirm that their technique inaccurately indicates acute infections even in people harboring trace amounts of sleeping viruses.
Fauci, Haase, Ho and Shaw all fail to prove a role for HIV in AIDS because they fail to show that in AIDS patients there is an appreciable amount of HIV or HIV-infected cells, or why HIV should be considered different from any of the many other viruses that infect immune cells without causing AIDS. In addition, the Ho/Shaw method of measuring “viral load” does not measure HIV blood concentrations, and therefore is of dubious value as a diagnostic tool. *
References
[1] Ho, Nature 373, 1995, p123.
[2]Wei, Nature 373, 1995, p117.
[3] Duesberg, Inventing the AIDS Virus.
[4] Papadopulos-Eleopulos, Genetica 1995, p5.
[5] Root-Bernstein, Rethinking AIDS.
[6] Embretson, Nature 362, 1993, p359.
[7] Pantaleo, Nature 362, 1993, p355.
[8] Maddox, Nature 373, 1993, p189.
[9] Pantaleo, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 88, 1991, p9838.
[10] Chao, New Engl. J. Med. 332, 1995, p201.
[11] Piatak, Science 259, 1993, p1749.
[12] Duesberg, Nature 375, 1995, p197.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] INHIBITORS OF HIV PROTEASE USELESS AGAINST AIDS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:39:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/drinhibit.htm

INHIBITORS OF HIV PROTEASE USELESS AGAINST AIDS
BECAUSE HIV DOESN’T CAUSE AIDS
By David Rasnick
Reapprasing AIDS August 1996

David Rasnick earns his living as a designer of protease inhibitors, the class of substances touted as the latest anti-AIDS miracle drug. Dr. Rasnick agrees that these drugs do indeed block HIV protease, and thus stop HIV replication. But he is sure that this action can have no effect on the course of AIDS. Why? Because people diagnosed with AIDS are sick from a variety of non-contagious factors, not HIV. Here he explains.
As everyone knows, what is now called AIDS was first noticed around 1980, among gay men in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York. I had just moved to the San Francisco Bay area that fall to help establish a small bio-tech company. Within months of my arrival, stories were going around about a strange new disease that was affecting the immune systems of gay men. It was exhilarating that such an urgent and complex scientific conundrum appeared at a time when I had just reached a measure of confidence in my powers as a scientist–and there I was right in the middle of it, the most stimulating medical puzzle of the century. I haven’t stopped learning and thinking about AIDS since then.
Whenever I gathered with other scientists for whatever reason, we invariably got around to discussing AIDS. What made AIDS such an interesting scientific subject was that it was bizarre and seemed to break all the rules. The technical aspects of this unprecedented disease marveled us. However, being an organic chemist–not an immunologist or physician–I felt there was little I could contribute scientifically toward unraveling the mysteries of AIDS. That inadequacy in no way dampened my enthusiasm or interest in studying the new disease, however.
Then Robert Gallo unveiled his HIV at the famous April, 1984 press conference. All the speculating, discussing, and hypothesizing about what causes AIDS ended in applause and backslapping. Gallo’s virus provided clarity, and even purpose for me personally, in the form of a subject for my art as an organic chemist. The example of the other retroviruses suggested that a likely constituent of HIV was an aspartyl protease. As a designer of protease inhibitors, I immediately began studying the possibility of designing inhibitors of HIV protease, even before such an enzyme had been characterized.
About six months into the project I gave up trying to design inhibitors of HIV protease, figuring others had already cornered the market. A friend at Abbott Laboratories, Jake Plattner, had for years been designing anti-hypertensives by developing inhibitors of renin, a human aspartyl protease that regulates blood pressure. Jake already had thousands of these compounds in the bottle and I was sure some would inhibit HIV’s protease as well. Today, Jake’s group is one of the leading producers of HIV protease inhibitors in the world. One of his inhibitors was recently approved by the FDA for treatment of AIDS when used in conjunction with AZT and other nucleoside analogs.
I’m glad I pulled out of the race for HIV protease inhibitors. It wasn’t long before I had serious doubts about the viral hypothesis of AIDS. I spent countless hours, as did many scientist throughout the world, devising ingenious explanations for how the so-called AIDS virus (HIV) destroyed the immune systems of its victims. By the end of 1985 the number of exotic hypotheses necessary to account for HIV being the sole cause of AIDS convinced me that something was fundamentally wrong with the basic assumptions that had become entrenched in the mega-institutions of science and medicine. The more I examined HIV, the less it made sense that this wimpy virus could cause such devastation. Sometime in 1987 I realized that HIV could not cause AIDS. Although I couldn’t prove that HIV was innocent at that time, I could show that the arguments for its guilt were unconvincing, though at the time I still thought AIDS might be infectious.
As late as 1988 I had no ideas that there were many other people equally bothered by the inconsistencies of the HIV hypothesis of AIDS until I came across books and articles by such authors as Jad Adams, Jon Rappoport, Harris Coulter, and John Lauritsen. I learned about Peter Duesberg, the UC Berkeley biologist, from these sources. I immediately looked up Duesberg’s 1987 Cancer Research paper refuting the HIV theory of AIDS. After reading it, I felt confident that the HIV theory would soon be discarded as the prevailing view, and replaced by a more logical explanation. Sadly, that still hasn’t happened. I kept studying and thinking, however. The more I looked into it, the more clearly it appeared that AIDS could not be infectious.
So what was it? Conversations with Joan McKenna, a Berkeley physiologist, and Joseph Sonnabend, a New York physician, led me to comfortable ground. They considered AIDS to result from a variety of factors, which perfectly fit the various risk profiles that characterize nearly all AIDS patients: gay men in the “fast lane,” impoverished residents of developing nations, hemophiliacs, etc. Shifting to multiple, combined cases of immune suppression was a psychologically satisfying alternative to the failed hypothesis that pointed to a single cause, HIV. I remained comfortably among the ranks of the multi-factorialists for about five years. Although I did think that malnutrition could cause AIDS by itself, I resisted Duesberg’s proposal that street drugs, AZT, and clotting factor therapy could as well. Such a claim seemed as over-simplified as the HIV theory. However, Peter’s relentless logic and superb arguments eventually eroded my skepticism: for three years now I have become evermore convinced that he is right.
It has taken me 15 years of curiosity, acceptance, doubt, study, understanding, new doubt, followed by new understanding, to come to terms with HIV/AIDS–and I’m a scientist, able to plow through the intimidating technical literature. No wonder the public has bought the contagious AIDS theory. The truth is guarded by experts and hidden by a thick forest of jargon, credentials, and all those papers. The fraud, incompetence and outright lies produced by the cult of HIV have already been documented. But holding the perpetrators accountable will not be easy. The institutions involved in the scandal have had a long time to hide their tracks. The only way the truth is going to get broad public exposure is for journalists to finally do their jobs, to dig up and examine the truth for themselves rather than parrot the unquestioned claims of pharmaceutical flacks and hack scientists. I have little confidence that this will happen anytime soon. Even though Professor Duesberg’s exhaustive exposé Inventing the AIDS Virus masterfully demolishes the HIV hypothesis, I’m afraid we have two or three more years before the “emperor’s new clothes” become embarrassingly apparent to everyone.
In 1989 I decided to do my part by writing a book. There were already a number of excellent titles available that carefully illuminated the HIV/AIDS scandal using thorough referencing to the medical literature. But none had thwarted the HIV media blitz which used catchy slogans and celebrity endorsements rather than boring data. I wanted to try something new: to present the factual story of AIDS in the form of a novel. My thinking is that people may be more inclined to consider the technical hodgepodge of AIDS if it is presented as entertainment. Whether I’m the person to do it this way successfully I don’t know–though I believe the idea is sound. But don’t rush out to grab a copy of Germ of Lies–regrettably, it remains unpublished.
The Kuru Guru and I
I took a break from the laboratory in the fall of 1990 to finish my AIDS novel and spend a short Peace Corps tour in the Chimbu Province of Papua New Guinea teaching science and English. My Peace Corps training was conducted in Goroka in the Eastern Highlands Province, where the now-famous neurological disorder “kuru” was described by the American physician Carlton Gajdusek. Gajdusek, you may recall, speculated that kuru was caused by a hypothetical “slow virus,” a novel concept that won him a Nobel Prize and provided a model and inspiration for the HIV/AIDS theory.
I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, so when I heard about Gajdusek’s scientific institute in Goroka I had to go for a visit. I learned from a local that the “kuru guru” still ran the facility, which is the size of a small community college located three or four blocks from the Goroka airport. As a fellow American scientist who happened to find himself in the highlands of Papua New Guinea, I expected Gajdusek to receive me with the enthusiasm of a long lost relative. He didn’t. I was greeted by a humorless old man who immediately escorted me through the labyrinth of hallways, passing familiar rotovaps, lyophilizers, general lab equipment and a library to what I anticipated would be his office where we could spend an enthusiastic hour or so taking about each other’s science. Instead, the antediluvian gentleman deposited me into the keeping of a very young anthropologist/health-care-worker who nevertheless enthralled me with her stories of helicoptering twice a month to a remote village where a newly discovered tribe was dying out due to extreme infant mortality. I spent less than five minutes with Gajdusek.
He was the first scientist I had ever come across who showed no eagerness to talk shop. It was just unnatural. It is my experience that scientists have an uncontrollable urge to talk about what they do to just about anyone who will listen. Such reticence to talk with a fellow scientist puzzled me until Peter Duesberg and Bryan Ellison explained to me that Gajdusek’s kuru work was as fraudulent as Gallo’s, premised on his own false claims that kuru victims practiced cannibalism and that kuru was infectious. His outlandish tales and “slow virus” theory were apparently accepted and even lauded not because they were supported by data or even logic, but because they permitted microbiologists to blame noninfectious diseases on harmless microbes.
Following the Peace Corps stint, I returned to the lab. In 1993 I began making proteases inhibitors again for the same diseases I worked on in the 1980s. During my “sabbatical,” HIV protease inhibitors had become a hot item. Several of the large drug companies had extensive programs underway. Roche had their inhibitors well into clinical trials. Merck had already spent $500 million on their HIV protease inhibitor program, but the grapevine had it that Merck was seriously thinking of pulling out of the field for a number of reasons. The rumor was short-lived since Merck soon began construction of a plant in southern Georgia to produce commercial quantities of its HIV protease inhibitor. Nevertheless, from private conversations with colleague, I learned that many of them wished they had never gotten involved in HIV work. Some openly acknowledged that HIV protease inhibitors weren’t working and likely never would.
No Mutation to Resistant Forms
In 1994 I attended the Gordon Conference on Proteolytic Enzymes in New Hampshire where HIV protease inhibitor results were discussed. John Kay provided interesting information on the clinical trials of Roche’s HIV protease inhibitor Ro 31-8959. He made the astounding claim that Roche had synthesized 800 tons (that’s right: tons) of this compound. When given the opportunity to change his statement, he stuck to 800 tons. The clinical trail consisted of 400 AIDS patients receiving 2g of the Roche inhibitor per day. After 18 months there was not clinical difference between the group given the protease inhibitor and the controls. Kay announced that Roche was putting an information blackout on further reports on the HIV protease inhibitor clinical trials due to the disappointing results.
The vogue explanation for the failure of the inhibitors to benefit AIDS patients is that HIV replicates so fast that it eventually develops mutant forms of protease that resist the inhibitors. Even to this day, however, no one has ever found a resistant HIV protease in any patient, even in patients that are claimed to have them! The only inhibitor-resistant HIV proteases anybody has ever examined are those produced in the lab using genetic engineering. Nevertheless, the mutation explanation, just like the HIV theory itself, was completely accepted–without question–as soon as it was proposed.
The mutation theory is preposterous, but not just because its premise–that HIV replicates hyperactively–is false. The mutation theory is preposterous because it is illogical. Enzyme inhibitors work only because they are shaped like the substrates the enzymes act upon: when an inhibitor fits snugly into an enzyme’s active site, then the substrate cannot. This is now inhibitors keep an enzyme from performing its task, which in this case is to produce HIV. Imagine one of these resistant, lab-created HIV proteases. It resists inhibitors because its active site is shaped in such a way that inhibitors cannot fit inside. That’s great. But how in the world is the substrate going to fit? Remember, the inhibitor and the substrate have the same shape; they appear identical to the active site, the way a lock cannot tell the difference between a key and a copy of a key.
Yet a representative from Vertex presented a poster showing that some of these lab-created mutants did indeed retain most of their ability to act upon particular substrates. But could such a mutant still produce virus?
I reminded him that in order for an HIV protease to produce a new virus, it had to cleave eight different substrates, and pointed out that the ability to cut just one of those substrates did not represent the overall ability of the enzyme to produce HIV. Yet he was claiming that some of these resistant proteases were as much as 90% effective when compared to non-mutated protease. But these claims of high effectiveness were always for just one of the eight substrates. In every case, the effectiveness on the other substrates was absurdly low, numbers like 0.1%, or 0.01%, or even 0.001%. In order to calculate the total effectiveness of these mutant proteases, you must multiply together all eight percentages. And when you multiply even a very large percentage like 90% by a bunch of tiny percentages like 0.1%, what you end up with is essentially zero.
In other words, these drug-resistant proteases were effectively non-functional. They could not produce viruses.
At the discussion session the next day I argued that the Vertex data did no support the hypothesis that mutations of the HIV protease are responsible for the lack of clinical efficacy of the inhibitors: the drug-resistant proteases were just as inactive as if their active sites were plugged with inhibitors. Other explanations are called for.
I went on to propose that the HIV protease inhibitors were performing as designed–blocking HIV production–without being undermined by the emergence of drug-resistant mutant strains. The reason that these drugs did not alleviate AIDS is that HIV is not the cause of AIDS.
During private discussions, none of my colleagues found any flaws with my reasoning and even thought it was right. I left the meeting thinking that these fellows would continue the analysis where I left off. Well, that, of course, didn’t happen. The HIV protease mutation hypothesis has become more entrenched with time.
None of the inhibitor-resistant mutant HIV proteases reported so far has come anywhere near the minimum level of overall activity necessary to produce relevant numbers of viable virus. It is extremely unlikely that mutations substantial enough to protect the protease against inhibition will at the same time leave virtually unimpaired its ability to produce viable viruses. The conclusion of my analysis is that inhibitor-resistant mutant HIV proteases are very unlikely to contribute to viral viability in vivo. Therefore, the failure of the HIV protease inhibitors to alter the progression of AIDS is not due to inhibitor-resistant mutations of this enzyme. *

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] THE DRUG-AIDS HYPOTHESIS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:37:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/pddrdrugaids.htm

THE DRUG-AIDS HYPOTHESIS
Peter Duesberg (1) and David Rasnick (2)
Continuum Feb./March 1997

(1) Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, 229 Stanley Hall, UC Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720, phone (510) 642-6549, fax (510) 643-6455, email: duesberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu (2) Resident AIDS investigator at UC Berkeley, 229 Stanley Hall, UC Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720, phone (510) 642-6549, fax (415) 826-1241, email: rasnick@mindspring.com

Abstract
The war on the new AIDS epidemic has been a complete failure in terms of public health benefits: 50,000 to 75,000 Americans develop AIDS per year and over $8 billion are spent annually on AIDS research and treatment by the US taxpayer alone, but there is no vaccine, and no effective drug, and not one AIDS patient has been cured. It is proposed here that this failure is the responsibility of the hypothesis that AIDS is caused by a virus named HIV. This hypothesis has monopolized AIDS research and treatment since 1984, but it neither explains nor predicts numerous AIDS facts, nor has it produced any public health benefits. In order to solve AIDS we propose here the drug-AIDS hypothesis. The drug hypothesis holds that all American AIDS diseases that exceed their normal low background are caused by the long-term consumption of recreational drugs, anti-HIV/AIDS drugs or both. This hypothesis is based on the only new health risk to emerge during the past 25 years in America and Europe: the drug epidemic. In America the consumers of recreational drugs such as cocaine, amphetamines, nitrite inhalants, and heroin soared from negligible numbers in the 1970s to currently 20 millions, or 8% of the population. In addition, over 200,000 HIV-positives take since 1987 daily prescriptions of inevitably toxic DNA chain-terminators such as AZT and simultaneously consume many other orthodox and unorthodox, toxic anti-HIV/AIDS medications. All AIDS facts confirm the drug hypothesis: 1) AIDS is new because the drug epidemic is; 2) over 95% of American AIDS patients are long-term users of recreational and anti-viral drugs, because drugs cause AIDS; 3) 9 out of 10 AIDS cases are males because they consume 90% of the drugs; 4) the age distributions of diseases and deaths from drugs and AIDS are both 25 to 54 years because drugs cause AIDS; 5) babies develop AIDS from sharing intravenous drugs with their mothers during pregnancy; 6) Kaposi’s sarcoma as an AIDS disease is restricted to male homosexuals because they use carcinogenic nitrite inhalants as sexual stimulants almost exclusively (98%); 7) termination of drug use has prevented and has even cured pediatric, male homosexual and intravenous drug-AIDS cases. According to the drug-AIDS hypothesis AIDS is preventable by banning anti-HIV/AIDS drugs and by advertising the medical consequences of recreational drugs. Such a program could be as successful as the campaign that has reduced smoking 40% by advertising the medical consequences of tobacco use. The drug-AIDS hypothesis could save 50,000 to 75,000 lives per year, $8 billion that are annually spent unproductively on AIDS research and therapy based on the virus hypothesis, and much of the $15 billion that is annually spent on supply control in the failed War on Drugs by lowering demand with advertisements that drugs cause AIDS. The solution to AIDS and the drug epidemic is as close as a very affordable and testable, independent AIDS hypothesis.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HIV Tests
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:34:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

go to the link for the original articles linked at each line below:

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/index/hivtests.htm
HIV Tests
ELISA, Western Blot, Viral Load

Neville Hodgkinson, ‘New Doubts Over AIDS Infection As HIV Tests Declared Invalid’
Neville Hodgkinson, ‘AIDS: Is Anyone Positive?’
Celia Farber, ‘The HIV Tests’
Celia Farber, ‘How Accurate is the HIV Test?’
Celia Farber, ‘Positively Flawed’
Christine Johnson, ‘Can you really trust the “AIDS test”?’
Christine Johnson, ‘Is Anybody Really Positive?’
Christine Johnson, ‘Mass HIV Testing: A Disaster in the Making’
Christine Johnson, ‘Playing Russian Roulette in the Laboratory’
Christine Johnson, ‘Why the “AIDS Test” Doesn’t Work in Africa’
Christine Johnson, ‘Viral Load and the PCR’
Paul Philpott & Christine Johnson, ‘Viral Load of Crap’
Valendar Turner, ‘Do HIV Antibody Tests Prove HIV Infection?’
Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos et al. ‘Is a Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?’
Eleni Papadopoulos-Eleopulos et al. ‘HIV Antibodies: Further questions and a plea for clarification’
Eleni Papadopoulos-Eleopulos et al. ‘HIV Antibody Tests and Viral Load – More Unanswered Questions and a Further Plea for Clarification’
Roberto Giraldo, ‘Everybody Reacts Positive on the ELISA Test for HIV’
Roberto Giraldo, ‘Tests for HIV are Highly Inaccurate’
Fabio Franci, ‘In Search of HIV: Analysis of the value of the tests used for ‘HIV infection”
Michael Verney-Elliott, ‘Virtual Viral Load Tests’
Matt Irwin, ‘Questions On HIV-Antibody Tests’
Matt Irwin, ‘False Positive Viral Loads’

• Criteria for a positive Western Blot test.
• Factors known to cause false positive test results.
• Quotes from the medical literature.

Scanned Abbott caveat/disclaimer for the 1998 (U.S.) HIV ELISA… (Abbott Axsym system (HIV-1/HIV-2). Abbott Laboratories, Diagnostics Division, 1998. 100 Abbott Park Rd. Abbott Park. Illinois: United States of America.)

Should a physician insist that you, or your child, test, insist that they first sign this document.

See also under HIV ISOLATION

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] SEMEN ACTS AS AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:27:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/nssemen.htm

SEMEN ACTS AS AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT
By Raj Persaud
New Scientist 26 June 2002
Semen makes you happy. That’s the remarkable conclusion of a study comparing women whose partners wear condoms with those whose partners don’t.
The study, which is bound to provoke controversy, showed that the women who were directly exposed to semen were less depressed. The researchers think this is because mood-altering hormones in semen are absorbed through the vagina. They say they have ruled out other explanations.
“I want to make it clear that we are not advocating that people abstain from using condoms,” says Gordon Gallup, the psychologist at the State University of New York who led the team. “Clearly an unwanted pregnancy or a sexually transmitted disease would more than offset any advantageous psychological effects of semen.”
Suicide attempts
His team divided 293 female students into groups depending on how often their partners wore condoms, and assessed their happiness using the Beck Depression Inventory, a standard questionnaire for assessing mood. People who score over 17 are considered moderately depressed.
The team found that women whose partners never used condoms scored 8 on average, those who sometimes used them scored 10.5, those who usually used them scored 15 and those who always used them scored 11.3. Women who weren’t having sex at all scored 13.5.
What’s more, the longer the interval since they last had sex, the more depressed the women who never or sometimes used condoms got. But the time since the last sexual encounter made no difference to the mood of women who usually or always used condoms.
The team also found that depressive symptoms and suicide attempts were more common among women who used condoms regularly compared with those who didn’t. The results will appear in the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior.
And Gallup told New Scientist that his team already has unpublished data from a larger group of 700 women confirming these findings. In this study, the always-use-condoms group were more depressed than the usually-use-condoms group, suggesting the discrepancy in the smaller study was a sampling error, he says.
Alternative explanations
But is it really the semen that affects women’s mood? The researchers say they looked at alternative explanations such as whether women who seldom use condoms took oral contraceptives, how often they had sex, the strength of relationships, and the possibility that having a certain type of personality influenced the decision to use condoms. But none of these factors can explain their findings, they say.
In fact, the results aren’t a complete surprise because semen does contain several mood-altering hormones, including testosterone, oestrogen, follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinising hormone, prolactin and several different prostaglandins. Some of these have been detected in a women’s blood within hours of exposure to semen.
The question many people will ask is whether oral sex could have the same mood-enhancing effects. “Since the steroids in birth control pills survive the digestion process, I would assume that the same holds true for at least some of the chemicals in semen,” Gallup says.
“I understand that among some gay males who have anal intercourse, it is not uncommon to attempt to retain the semen for extended periods of time,” he adds. “Suggesting, of course, that there may be psychological effects.” But further research will be needed to confirm whether exposure to semen through oral or anal sex really does affect mood in heterosexual or homosexual partners.
But why should semen have such an effect? “It makes no sense to me for this phenomenon to have evolved,” says Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist at the Indiana University of Pennsylvania. But Gallup counters that men whose semen promotes long-term mood enhancement might have more chances to indulge in sexual activity.
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS: STOP THE LIES (eat coconuts instead)
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:24:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data2/citations.htm

Dr. Charles Thomas, Molecular Biologist and former Harvard and Johns Hopkins Professor:
“The HIV-causes-AIDS dogma represents the grandest and perhaps the most morally destructive fraud that has ever been perpetrated on young men and women of the Western world,” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“AIDS has been a disease of definition. If we said that it didn’t exist and didn’t pay for it with taxpayers’ money, it would disappear in the background of normal mortality.” (Penthouse April 1994)
“I feel that for scientists to remain silent in the face of all this doubt is tantamount to criminal negligence.” (Spin June 1992)
Dr. Roger Cunningham, Immunologist, Microbiologist and Director of the Centre for Immunology at the State University of New York at Buffalo:
“Unfortunately, an AIDS ‘establishment’ seems to have formed that intends to discourage challenges to the dogma on one side and often insists on following discredited ideas on the other.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Richard Strohman, Professor Emeritus of Cell Biology at the University of California at Berkeley:
“In the old days it was required that a scientist address the possibilities of proving his hypothesis wrong as well as right. Now there’s none of that in standard HIV-AIDS program with all its billions of dollars.” (Penthouse April 1994)
“We need research into possible causes such as drug use and behaviour, not a bankrupt hypothesis.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Mohammad Ali Al-Bayati, Toxicologist and Pathologist, California:
“HIV does not cause AIDS. There is no scientific evidence that HIV can kill infected T4 cells. The true problem is that the leaders of the HIV hypothesis have been ignoring important medical facts and are blindly attributing AIDS to the HIV virus. It is very sad and frustrating to know that the AIDS establishment are giving highly toxic drugs such as AZT to pregnant women even with studies that show the depression in the immune system can be reversed by nutrition. Prescribing anti-viral drugs to AIDS patients is like putting gasoline on a fire”
Dr. Alfred Hässig, Emeritus Professor in Immunology at the University of Bern, former Director Swiss Red Cross blood banks:
“The sentence of death accompanying the medical diagnosis of AIDS should be abolished.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“In the virological research, so much money is invested, and the research people want to stay in that area because if you deviate to research in other directions probably other people come in and must be funded.” (Meditel 1992)
“Virologist have nothing new to offer. They keep coming up with excuses, they find constant growth and change in the virus structure, it evades, attacks, strange things, but none of them has the courage to explain properly how these things could possibly be so.” (Continuum Jan/Feb 1996)
“AZT (anti-viral AIDS medicine) has, in countless cases, brought about the inevitable and slow asphyxiation of the patient’s body cells. The doctors wrongly diagnose the fatal consequences of AZT medication as AIDS following a prior HIV infection. Treatment with AZT and allied toxic substances may be equivalent to joining a suicide squad with a time fuse.”
“It is the duty of every doctor to preserve life at any cost — and not death-curse people based on any test so they are so frightened they kill themselves. I am sad to say that these voodoo methods were practised despite there never being any proof that the detected antibodies are an indication of mortality in all diagnosed people. I consider it medical malpractice to push patients into dying by prophesying an early death. We are medical scientists, not prophets!”
Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology. Former Director of the Department of Viroid Research, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München. Robert Koch Award 1978.
“The result of my intensive literature research shows that so far not one publication exists, in which is being described that HIV has been isolated, purified, and charaterized by the criteria of classical virology.” (Forword Mythos AIDS 2000)
“During the past 20 years HIV-AIDS research has shown to a line of critical scientists again and again that the existence of HIV has not been proven without doubt, and that both from a aetiological (causal), and a epidemiological view, it can not be responsible for the immunodeficiency AIDS. In view of the general accepted HIV/AIDS hypothesis this appeared to me so unbelievable that I decided to investigate it myself. After three years of intensive and, above all, critical studies of the relevant original literature, as an experienced virologist and molecular biologist I came to the following surprising conclusion: Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical virology.” (Letter to Süddeutsche Zeitung Oct. 2000)
Dr. Walter Gilbert, Professor in Molecular Biology, 1980 Nobel prize for chemistry:
“I would not be surprised if there were another cause of AIDS and even that HIV is not involved.” (Omni June 1993)
“[Duesberg] is absolutely correct in saying that no one has proven that AIDS is caused by the AIDS virus. And he is absolutely correct that the virus cultured in the laboratory may not be the cause of AIDS.” (Hippocrates Sept./Oct. 1988)
“The community as a whole doesn’t listen patiently to critics who adopt alternative viewpoints. Although the great lesson of history is that knowledge develops through the conflict of viewpoints.” (Meditel 1990)
Dr. Albert Sabin, Virologist:
“I think the views of a person like Dr. Duesberg are terribly, terribly important, and we must pay attention to them.” (Oakland Tribune 31 Jan. 1988)
Dr. Rush Wayne, M.A., Molecular Biology, Harvard University, PhD, Biochemistry, University of California:
“While first learning about the AIDS controversy, I read whatever I could on both sides. I have not found an instance, when both sides have been able to state their complete case, where the mainstream AIDS view has held up. On the contrary, much of the mainstream view seems to be based on bad research and fallacious reasoning.”
Dr. Andrew Herxheimer, Emeritus Professor of Pharmacology, UK Cochrane Centre, Oxford:
“I think zidovudine [AZT] was never really evaluated properly and that its efficacy has never been proved, but it’s toxicity certainly is important. And I think it has killed a lot of people. Especially at the high doses. I personally think it not worth using alone or in combination at all.” (Continuum Oct. 2000)
Michael Ellner, Medical Hypnotherapist, President of HEAL New York:
“I have seen the constant terror, and programming to get sick and die, that people at risk for developing AIDS face. I am certain that the hypothesis that long-term drug use is primary cause of what is now called AIDS is far more likely to prove true than the failed notion that AIDS is caused by a germ.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Steven Jonas, Professor of Preventive Medicine, Suny Stony Brook, NY:
“Evidence is rapidly accumulating that the original theory of HIV is not correct.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Lawrence Bradford, Biology Professor in Atchinson, Kansas:
“The cause of AIDS is multifactorial. HIV is neither necessary nor sufficient.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Neville Hodgkinson, former Science Editor, The Times of London:
“A kind of collective insanity over HIV and AIDS has gripped leaders of the scientific and medical profession. They have stopped behaving as scientists, and instead are working as propagandists, trying desperately to keep alive a failed theory.”
Dr. Beverly Griffin, Director of the Department of Virology, Royal Postgraduate Medical School, Hammersmith Hospital London:
“It will surely lead to a scientifically healthier society if the burden of proof for HIV as a deadly pathogen is returned to where it belongs – to those who maintain that HIV causes AIDS – and others are allowed to pursue alternative approaches in the battle for eradiction of the disease.” (Nature 20 April 1989)
Dr. Etienne de Harven, Professor of Pathology, University of Toronto:
“Dominated by the media, by pressure groups and by the interests of pharmaceutical companies, the AIDS establishment lost contact with open-minded, peer-reviewed science since the unproven HIV/AIDS hypothesis received 100% of the research funds while all other hypotheses were ignored. How many wasted efforts, how many billions of research dollars gone in smoke… Horrible.”
Dr. Hiram Caton, Ethicist, Head of the School of Applied Ethics at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia:
“The orthodoxy will collapse because it flunks the practical test. The AIDS epidemic was a mirage manufactured by scientists who believed that integrity could be maintained amidst the diverting influences of big money, prestige and politics.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Phillip Johnson, Senior Professor of Law, University of California at Berkeley:
“That establishment continue to doctor statistics and misrepresent the situation to keep the public convinced that a major viral pandemic is under way when the facts are otherwise.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“One does not need to be a scientific specialist to recognise a botched research job and a scientific establishment that is distorting the facts to maximise its funding. That establishment continues to doctor statistics and misrepresent the situation to keep the public convinced that a major viral pandemic is underway when the facts are otherwise.”
Dr. Henk Loman, Professor of Biophysical Chemistry at the Free University in Amsterdam:
“There are many people with AIDS but without HIV, and a great many people with HIV but without AIDS. These two facets mean that HIV = AIDS is much to simple. Plausible, alternative, testable causes of impairment of the immune system which may ultimately lead to AIDS should become part of regular AIDS research.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Kary Mullis, Biochemist, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry:
“If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document… The HIV theory, the way it is being applied, is unfalsifiable and therefor useless as a medical hypothesis.” (Sunday Times (London) 28 nov. 1993)
Dr. Harry Rubin, Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California at Berkeley:
“It is not proven that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, nor is it proven that it plays no role whatever in the syndrome.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“The causal role of HIV in AIDS is certainly not proven.”
Dr. Luc Montagnier, Virologist, discoverer of HIV, Institute Pasteur Paris:
“There are too many shortcomings in the theory that HIV causes all signs of AIDS. We are seeing people HIV-infected for 9, 10, 12 years or more, and they are still in good shape, their immune system is still good. It is unlikely that these people will come down with AIDS later.” (Miami Herald 23 Dec. 1990)
Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, New York Physician:
“The marketing of HIV, through press releases and statements, as a killer virus causing AIDS without the need for any other factors, has so distorted research and treatment that it may have caused thousands of people to suffer and die.” (Sunday times (London) 17 May 1992)
Dr. Fabio Franci, Specialist in Preventive Medicine and Infectious Diseases, Trieste, Italy:
“I am not an agnostic; I am well convinced HIV is harmless.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Bernard Forscher, former Managing Editor of the Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences:
“The HIV hypothesis ranks with the ‘bad air’ theory for malaria and the ‘bacterial infection’ theory of beriberi and pellagra [caused by nutritional deficiencies]. It is a hoax that became a scam.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Paul Rabinow, Professor of Anthropology, University of California at Berkeley:
“In particular I have pursued the situation of haemophiliacs and HIV because it was the arena least charged with moralism. Systematic attempts to be allowed to look at the data or to find rigorous controlled studies have failed.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Paul Lineback, Counselling Psychologist, Eastern Oregon State College:
“Protecting and promoting the unproven HIV hypothesis as fact is inducing unnecessary stress, probable emotional harm, and maybe even psychological murder.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Arthur Gottlieb, Chairperson of the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at the Tulane University School of Medicine:
“The viewpoint has been so firm that HIV is the only cause and will result in disease in every patient, that anyone who challenges that is regarded as ‘politically incorrect.’ I don’t think – as a matter of public policy – we gain by that, because it limits debate and discussion and focuses drug development on attacking the virus rather than attempting to correct the disorder of the immune system, which is central to the disease.” (Penthouse April 1994)
Dr. Casper Schmidt, M.D. New York Psychiatrist:
“There is no way that AIDS can be an infectious disease. Something else must be going on. The more likely interpretation is that HIV and immune dysfunction – rather than HIV being a cause and immune dysfunction being a consequence – are both consequences of something else.” (Penthouse April 1994)
Dr. Gordon Stewart, Emeritus Professor of Epidemiology University of Glasgow:
“Nobody wants to look at the facts about this disease. It’s the most extraordinary thing I’ve ever seen. I’ve sent countless letters to medical journals pointing out the epidemiological discrepancies and they simply ignore them. The fact is, this whole heterosexual AIDS thing is a hoax.” (Spin June 1992)
“AIDS is a behavioural disease. It is multifactorial, brought on by several simultaneous strains on the immune system – drugs, pharmaceutical and recreational, sexually transmitted diseases, multiple viral infections.” (Spin June 1992)
“The hypothesis that HIV is the sole cause of AIDS simply does not fit the clinical and epidemiological facts”
Dr. Harvey Bialy, Editor of the science journal Bio/Technology:
“HIV is an ordinary retrovirus. There is nothing about this virus that is unique. Everything that is discovered about HIV has an analogue in other retroviruses that don’t cause AIDS. HIV only contains a very small piece of genetic information. There’s no way it can do all these elaborate things they say it does.” (Spin June 1992)
“From both my literature review and my personal experience over most of the AIDS – so called AIDS centres in Africa, I can find absolutely no believable persuasive evidence that Africa is in the midst of a new epidemic of infectious immunodeficiency.” (Meditel 1992)
Dr. Peter Duesberg, Professor of Molecular Biology University of Berkely:
“There are no slow retroviruses, only slow retrovirologists.” (Spin June 1992)
“They have hyped up HIV into this super-rapist but in reality the damn thing can hardly get an erection.” (Times of London 11 May 1992)
“Epidemiology is like a bikini: what is revealed is interesting; what is concealed is crucial.” (PNAS Feb. 1991)
“When AIDS patients’ bodies finally break down from the effects of these anti-viral drugs, they say, ‘Now the virus has become resistant, and the drugs have lost their effectiveness.’ What really is happening is the toxicity of the drugs builds up to a point where the patient cannot stand it anymore. And, of course, they say it was the virus — rather than the entirely inevitable and predictable toxicity of these damned drugs.”
Dr. Roberto Giraldo, Specialist in Internal Medicine, Infectious and Tropical Diseases, New York
“HIV tests are meaningless. A person can react positive even though he or she is not infected with HIV. The tests are interpreted differently in different countries, which means that a person who is positive in Africa (or Thailand) can be negative when tested in Australia. There is no justification for the fact that most people have not been informed about the serious inaccuracy of the tests. The error has catastrophic repercussions on thousands of people. Since people are reacting positive on tests that are not specific for HIV, let’s please stop labeling them as ‘HIV positive’”
Nick Siano, author of No Time to Wait:
“The things that we’re feeding people emotionally about this disease are much more deadly than HIV itself. The emotional content of HIV infection is 75 percent of the battle.” (Penthouse Dec. 1995)
Dr. James Hudson, Professor of Pathology and Medicine, University of British Columbia
“I stopped going to AIDS meetings several years ago — I could no longer stand the stress of restraining myself from getting up and shouting, ‘Rubbish!”
Dr. Frank Buianouckas: Professor of Mathmatics, Bronx New York.
“I am suspect about everything involved in this AIDS epidemic, because if HIV causes anything, it certainly causes fund-raisers. It sells stocks. It supports dances. It sells condoms. And it keeps the AIDS establishment going.” (Penthouse Dec. 1995)
Dr. Michael Lange: Head of AIDS Programme St. Lukes Hospital, New York:
“What I would strongly support is a more open discussion. We do not know the pathogenesis of this disease. And we were very early forced into a very dogmatic view: namely that somehow HIV kills the T-cells.” (Spin April 1991)
Dr. Sam Mhlongo: Head of the Department of Family Medicine and Primary Health Care at the Medical University of South Africa:
“The case for a link between HIV and AIDS is not proven. I would like the “orthodox” scientists to acknowledge that in Africa there are 29 or 30 diseases which may mimic AIDS, which are related to poverty. But they will not accept that because poverty does not make them big money but HIV makes them money. If we dissidents had only one hundredth of the funds that the orthodox view has, the orthodox view would probably be dead in less than a year.”
Dr. Donald Abrams: Prof. of Medicine, San Francisco General Hospital:
“I have a large population of (HIV + patients) who have chosen not to take any anti-viral drugs. They’ve watched all of their friends go on the anti-viral bandwagon and die.”
Dr. Manu Kothari: Professor of Anatomy, Seth G.S. Medical College, Mumbai India:
“For all we know, it is not HIV that causes AIDS, but the so-called co-factors such as indiscriminate antibiotic use, recreational drugs, poverty, malnutrition, polluted water and pesticised food. AZT and the like (so-called triple therapy) are rank cytotoxic poisons. To give AZT to pregnant women is a crime against the mother and the baby she is making.”
Dr. Ralph Moss: Author of The Cancer Industry:
“The paradigm that was laid down for how to milk the cancer problem is basically the same paradigm which is being followed in milking the AIDS problem.” (Penthouse Dec. 1995)
Michael Callen: AIDS Activist, died in 1994, 13 years after AIDS diagnosis.
“The HIV paradigm has produced nothing of value for my life and I actually believe that treatments based on the arrogant belief that HIV has proven to be the sole and sufficient cause of AIDS has hastened the deaths of many of my friends” (Meditel 1992)
Dr. Stefan Lanka: Virologist, Germany.
“No particle of HIV has ever been obtained pure, free of contaminants; nor has a complete piece of HIV RNA (or the transcribed DNA) ever been proved to exist.” (Continuum Sept./Oct. 1996)
Anthony Liversidge: Science journalist, New York
“The editors of the Proceedings [of the U.S. National Academy of Science] enlisted a phalanx of special reviewers – 26 at last count – to criticize his [Duesberg’s] three submissions. None could identify a single uncorrectable flaw in fact or logic, as the editors acknowledged, only a difference of opinion.” (Omni June 1993)
Dr. Serge Lang, Professor of Mathematics, Yale University:
“I do not regard the causal relationship between HIV and any disease as settled. I have seen considerable evidence that highly improper statistics concerning HIV and AIDS have been passed off as science, and that top members of the scientific establishment have carelessly, if not irresponsible, joined the media in spreading misinformation about the nature of AIDS.” (Yale Scientific, Fall 1994)
Dr. Dave Rasnick, Biochemist, visiting scientist University of California at Berkeley.
“In defending the purchased consensus, HIV researchers use statistical methodologies shown by their inventors to be invalid and conduct experiments without any controls. They take causes for effects, correlations for causations, and constants for variables. Most important, they haven’t stopped AIDS. What they have done successfully is instilled fear into human sexual relations — an amorphous fear, which most AIDS professionals as well as journalists argue has been valuable.” (Talk Napoli, Italy, April 2001)

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] COCAINE SPEEDS HIV’S SPREAD IN CELLS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:20:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/reutcoke.htm

COCAINE SPEEDS HIV’S SPREAD IN CELLS
By E. J. Mundell
Reuters 14 Feb. 2002
New York — Experts have long known that cocaine abuse encourages risky behaviors linked to infection with HIV. Now, research in mice suggests the drug may also speed the cell-to-cell spread of the virus by up to 200-times.
“This is important, because cocaine use–specifically crack cocaine–is a significant public health problem, and it’s particularly significant in populations at risk for contracting HIV,” said researcher Dr. Gayle Baldwin, of the University of California, Los Angeles. Her team published their findings in the March issue of the Journal of Infectious Diseases.
Previous population-based studies have suggested that HIV-related disease progresses faster in drug abusers than in non-users. However, ethical and practical concerns have meant that its nearly impossible to carry out studies that would measure the effects of cocaine on HIV spread at the cellular level.
In their research, Baldwin’s team developed a mouse model of human HIV infection. They first transplanted human cells into mice, then infected those cells with HIV. Next, they fed some of the mice cocaine in liquid form, at dosages roughly comparable to those used by human addicts. The rest of the mice received no cocaine.
“What we found was that cocaine use dramatically accelerated the spread of HIV infection,” Baldwin told Reuters Health. In fact, the blood cells of mice fed cocaine had nearly 200 times the level of virus of those who did not receive the drug.
Furthermore, cocaine-fed rodents experienced significant injury to their immune systems, as well. “There was a dramatic decrease in the number of CD4+ T cells–these are one of the primary cellular immune defenders, and the target cell of choice for HIV,” Baldwin said. According to the researchers, the number of CD4+ cells fell 9 times faster in rats fed cocaine versus those that were not.
The exact mechanisms behind cocaine’s impact on HIV and immune health remains unclear. “There certainly are some targets we can look at,” Baldwin said. “Cocaine doesn’t work by itself…it has a number of byproducts, and these byproducts can act on HIV. These can include things as straightforward as cellular mediators such as cytokines, compounds which have been already shown to have an effect on HIV replication.” Cocaine and its byproducts might also help HIV break into cells.
Regardless of the way in which it wreaks havoc with HIV, the message to HIV-positive individuals–or anyone else–seems clear: stay away from cocaine.
“Even if cocaine had no effect on HIV replication, the consequences of use in immune-compromised population is very straightforward,” Baldwin noted. But evidence that cocaine could actually speed the spread of HIV within cells may now mean that “the caution against this sort of recreational drug use has now been increased 200-fold,” she said.
Source: The Journal of Infectious Diseases, 2002:185:701-705.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] COCAINE AND INTENSITY OF H.I.V. ARE RELATED IN A STUDY OF MICE
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:19:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/nytcoke.htm

COCAINE AND INTENSITY OF H.I.V. ARE RELATED IN A STUDY OF MICE
By Denise Grady
New York Times 15 Feb. 2002
Research in mice may help explain something that doctors have noticed in people who are infected with H.I.V.: cocaine use seems to make the disease progress faster and lead to more of the opportunistic infections that are the hallmark of AIDS.
The reason is not known. Drug abusers often eat poorly, have unprotected sex and neglect their health in other ways, so it has been impossible to tell whether their problems are due to cocaine itself or to the other habits that often go with addiction.
A new study suggests that cocaine is to blame. In the study, by researchers at the AIDS Institute at the University of California at Los Angeles, specially bred mice were inoculated with human cells and with H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS, and then given injections of either cocaine or a salt-water placebo. Cocaine greatly enhanced replication of the virus and increased the number of human cells it infected and killed.
Dr. Gayle C. Baldwin, who directed the study, said, “We’re talking about a 200-fold increase in viral load in these animals. That is a lot.”
In addition, Dr. Baldwin said, the mice given cocaine had only one- ninth as many CD4 cells as the mice given salt water. CD4 cells, also called helper T cells, help to activate other cells of the immune system. They are the prime targets of the AIDS virus, and when they are wiped out, the ability to fight off infections is lost.
The virus also infects other cells, and, Dr. Baldwin said, “We’re seeing that the population of cells that are not killed off are churning out incredible amounts of virus.”
Why that occurs is not known, she said, adding, “We’re working on that right now.”
Dr. Baldwin said that cocaine had powerful effects on both the nervous system and the immune system, and that it caused the body to produce steroid hormones and other substances that might affect H.I.V. and its ability to invade cells.
A report on the study will be published in the March issue of The Journal of Infectious Diseases and is being posted today on the Internet at www.journals.uchicago.edu/JID/journal.
Dr. Warner C. Greene, director of the Gladstone Institute of Virology and Immunology at the University of California at San Francisco, who was not involved in the study, said doctors had wondered why cocaine users had a worse course with H.I.V.
“The beauty of this study,” Dr. Greene said, “is that it really focuses in and reveals some specific effect of cocaine. One clearly sees that cocaine is doing something to the infection process.”
Dr. Greene also said he thought the study would enhance both doctors’ and patients’ awareness of cocaine’s potential to accelerate the course of H.I.V. infection.
“I think it has very significant implications for people infected with H.I.V.,” he said.
Dr. Baldwin said that even though the study was done in mice, she thought the findings would apply to people.
“There’s always controversy with animal models,” she said. “But among people who do H.I.V. research, this is an accepted model. You can’t address these questions in a human population. It would be unethical. This model offers us something nothing else really can.”
Dr. Greene said, “It’s a model, but, boy, the effects they saw were significant.”
The mice in the study were inoculated with human cells because mouse cells do not become infected with H.I.V. The mice in the study lacked immune systems, and so would not reject human cells. The mice could then be injected with H.I.V.
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Cause of AIDS Disputed
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:12:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: “new patriots” <new_patriots@yahoogroups.com>, <Mr_Tracys_Corner@yahoogroups.com>, “cia drugs” <cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com>, “a political debate” <a_political_debate_@yahoogroups.com>, “global humanity” <globalhumanity@yahoogroups.com>, <RM-COUNSEL@yahoogroups.com>, <Evolving_Thought@yahoogroups.com>, <aidscured@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AIDS “dissident” David Rasnick of the University of California at Berkeley has agreed to inject himself with HIV if South African Professor Philip Machanick takes a three-drug cocktail of anti-HIV medicine for the rest of his life…

“The experiment is simple,” Rasnick says. “We will see who comes down with AIDS-defining and other diseases and who lives longer. In other words, which is more harmful: HIV or the anti-HIV drugs?”

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/03/24/MN44200.DTL

Cause of AIDS Disputed
Bizarre duel over AIDS
UC ‘dissident’ would get HIV if South African takes HIV drugs

In a morbid twist on South Africa’s debate over the AIDS crisis, a controversial Bay Area academic and a South African computer scientist have challenged each other to a duel to the death — using chemicals and the deadly AIDS virus as the choice of weapons.
AIDS “dissident” David Rasnick of the University of California at Berkeley has agreed to inject himself with HIV if South African Professor Philip Machanick takes a three-drug cocktail of anti-HIV medicine for the rest of his life.
Dismissed by many as a stunt that will never take place, the duel nevertheless highlights the disruptive nature of the conflict between mainstream AIDS science and the influential dissident view in South Africa, a country that faces an AIDS-related health catastrophe.
“The experiment is simple,” Rasnick says. “We will see who comes down with AIDS-defining and other diseases and who lives longer. In other words, which is more harmful: HIV or the anti-HIV drugs?”
Rasnick, a visiting scientist in UC Berkeley’s molecular and cell biology department, and others dispute the accepted belief that AIDS is contagious, sexually transmitted and caused by HIV. They say the high mortality rate ascribed to HIV is the result of lifestyle factors in the West such as drug abuse and, in Africa, because of poor nutrition and disease caused by poverty.
The dissidents also blame anti-retroviral drugs — which they say are highly toxic — for many of the opportunistic ailments that afflict AIDS sufferers.
Machanick, a professor of computer science at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, issued the bizarre challenge because of the high-profile position that Rasnick and other dissidents enjoy in government circles in South Africa, a country where one in 10 people is infected with the virus.

THABO MBEKI
So far, South African President Thabo Mbeki has sympathized with the dissidents’ views — to the outrage of the South African medical community, AIDS activists and people like Machanick. Mbeki has also balked at issuing anti-retroviral drugs in state hospitals, even though drug companies have offered these products at cost or even for free. Last week, the ruling African National Congress even issued a document to its members that questions the existence of AIDS.
“I e-mailed (Rasnick) last year suggesting that if he was so sure about his views, he should take the virus,” said Machanick. “We corresponded for a while and both decided the other was not a complete flake. He said he would inject himself with the virus if I would take anti-retrovirals.”
Dr. Costa Gazi, the health spokesman for the Pan Africanist Congress party, which has criticized the Mbeki government’s stand on AIDS, was dismissive of the dissidents — and the duel.
“This is a small coterie of people on the fringes of world science,” Gazi said. “The rest of the scientific community has already reviewed the facts and does not need to prove its case over again, especially while people are dying in large numbers.”
But while many have scoffed at the two duelists — saying they can afford a display of bravado knowing they will never have to actually carry it out — Rasnick insists the challenge is real.

TELEVISION EVENT
He wants the duel to take place live on television and is trying to raise funds to pay for the drugs and the cost of monitoring the event.
“There are no ethical questions about doing this, since both Machanick and I have agreed to participate in this experiment, just as thousands of other people continue to voluntarily participate in experiments around the world,” Rasnick said. “To the best of my knowledge, there is no law against becoming HIV-positive.”
At one point, Rasnick challenged Gazi to a similar duel. But Gazi, who was imprisoned and forced into exile by the former white-controlled apartheid government, declined.
“When Rasnick made the challenge, I said, ‘What a load of crap.’ It won’t prove anything,” said Gazi.
In a less dramatic echo of the Rasnick-Machanick duel, Mbeki has set up an advisory panel charged with establishing the causes of the disease. The panel pits dissidents like Rasnick against medical experts who hold the conventional view that HIV causes AIDS.
While Mbeki has in effect given dissidents like Rasnick encouragement, it is unclear how seriously Mbeki takes their views or whether, as some critics claim, he is exploiting them in order to save the country from a huge bill in treating his country’s AIDS epidemic.
But with Mbeki facing challenges from within his party on the issue and growing criticism from abroad, pressure is mounting for him to publicly end the AIDS controversy, even if he privately hangs on to his unorthodox views.

DISSIDENTS DEFIANT
As the debate rages in South Africa, the mood among the AIDS dissidents is upbeat and defiant.
“South Africans have learned from the catastrophe of apartheid — and colonialism in general — that they cannot blindly accept the white man’s word on anything. They have learned they must find things out for themselves and come up with their own solutions,” Rasnick said.
“It is ironic, really,” responded Machanick. “Our government says it cannot be bound by foreign experiences, yet it chooses to listen to a small group in California and Australia on this issue and ignores the pleas here at home of the South African medical community.”

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:05:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world. Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests.  It doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I was
using (whatever it was at the time).  Not many people talk about this. Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life –  the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take something
–  that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process. Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS DRUGS KILL
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:06:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rrugandastudy.htm

NEW STUDY SHOWS AIDS DRUGS EQUALLY EFFECTIVE AS POVERTY AND MALNUTRITION
By Rodney Richards
April 2002
Median time from seroconversion to AIDS and death in poor, starving rural Africans (without access to health care, purified water or electricity) living in the Masaka District of Uganda (where malaria, dysentery and measles are endemic) is no different than that observed in Europeans, North Americans, or Australians who have full access to proper nutrition, health-care, “life-prolonging” anti-retrovirals, and prophylaxis against opportunistic infections.
If antiretroviral drugs are responsible for dramatic improvements in survival among HIV positives taking the treatments, we should expect to see dramatically reduced survival among HIV positives with no access to the wonder drugs. Surprisingly, this is not the case. In the March 8, 2002 issue of the medical journal AIDS, scientist from the Medical Research Council and the Uganda Virus Research Institute in Uganda (MRC/UVRI) report that untreated ‘HIV infected’ Ugandans are surviving “considerably longer than has been expected.”(1)
In fact, this is an understatement. The untreated Ugandans in the above study are actually surviving just as long as their medicated HIV positive counterparts in the developed world, according to data published in the April 1, 2000 issue of The Lancet.(2) This latter study was conducted by the Collaborative Group on AIDS Incubation and HIV Survival Group (Collaborative Group) which analyzed data from 13,030 individuals with known dates of seroconversion from Europe, North America, and Australia to estimate time from seroconversion to AIDS and death.
Specifically, “median time from seroconversion to death was 9.8 years”(1) in the Ugandan study, as compared to 10.1 years for aged matched individuals in the Collaborative Group study; and median time from seroconversion to AIDS was 9.4 and 9.3 years for the two studies, respectively (see note 1).
Even more miraculously, for individuals infected at ages15-24 in these studies, 10-year survival was substantially better in antiretroviral-free Ugandans than it was in their medicated counterparts living in Europe, North America, and Australia (78% vs 66%, see note 2).
Could it be that these particular rural Ugandans are living in abundance with good nutrition and the necessary resources to provide for an environment conducive to fending off the opportunistic infections waiting to take advantage of their failing immune systems?
The authors give us the answer in a separate report, which was published two months earlier in the British Medical Journal (BMJ). “Most of the population” in their study area “lives in poverty; food is often in limited supply, there is no electricity, and there is poor access to any, let alone clean, water. Malaria is endemic, and infections other than HIV, especially bacterial infections, are common.”(3)
Interestingly, the BMJ publication doesn’t even talk about time to AIDS or death. Rather it focuses on symptoms in these ‘HIV infected’ individuals and paradoxically concludes that “disease progression associated with infection with HIV-1 seems to be rapid in rural Uganda.” Only in the world of HIV/AIDS can “rapid” disease progression be correlated with “considerably longer” survival. The apparently schizophrenic conclusions in these two publications, which are derived from the same patient population, are discussed further in note 3.
Rather than comment on the contradictory nature of observable facts, the authors of the Ugandan study attempt to divert attention from the extraordinary survival rates observed in their subjects by emphasizing these rates are “comparable to survival times in industrialized countries prior to the widespread use of antiretroviral therapy.” Technically true, but only because survival times have not changed since the widespread use of antiretroviral therapy in industrialized countries!
The Collaborative Group study analyzed data for 13,030 individuals who seroconverted in the pre-HIV-era (before 1983), the prophylaxis-era (1983-1987), the AZT-era (1987-1990), the monotherapy-era (1990-1993), and the combination therapy-era (1993-1996). Contrary to all expectations, the authors inform us that they “found no evidence of a difference in survival or time to the diagnosis of AIDS for individuals who seroconverted in 1983-96.”(2)
No difference in survival time or progression to an AIDS diagnosis for people who became HIV positive from 1983-1996, despite all the dramatic improvements in therapies during these years? How can this be?
Prior to AZT treatment, we were told that prophylaxis against PCP (pneumocystis carinii pneumonia) and MAC (mycobacterium avium complex) dramatically slows progression to AIDS and death, after the release of AZT in 1987 we were told AZT dramatically slows progression to AIDS and death further still. Then in 1993, we were told combination therapy dramatically slows progression to AIDS and death even further!
In fact, and in stark contrast to all that we¹ve been told about the drug therapies, the only group in the Collaborative Group study that actually did enjoy significantly better survival were those individuals who seroconverted to HIV positive before 1983, before there were any AIDS treatments or prophylaxis in use!
So is it fair to say that AIDS prophylaxis, AZT, and combinations of AIDS drugs did nothing for those receiving treatment? Technically, it is not fair to say prophylaxis, mono-therapy, and combination therapy did nothing, since those who seroconverted in years when these drugs were immediately available actually did significantly worse! The authors offer a nonsensical rationalization to account for this glaring anomaly: “The apparently better survival for individuals seroconverting before 1983 may be an artefact, because these individuals seroconverted before the discovery of HIV-1 as the causative agent for AIDS.”
Rather than focusing on 13,030 examples demonstrating a complete lack of benefit to any of the anti-retrovirals used alone or in combination up to 1996, the authors instead present this data as a summary of survival “before the widespread use of HAART,” apparently putting forth the implication that with HAART, survival rates are most certainly improved. Yet the authors offer no data of their own or even a reference to a single publication showing us how patients who seroconverted in the HAART-era are actually doing with regard to survival rates.
Today, nearly two years after the Lancet article on the Collaborative Group study, the PubMed data base still does not list any published comments on the results of the Collaborative Group study, and I am still unaware of any publication that reports data for survival or time to AIDS in persons with known dates of seroconversion after 1996, in the era of ostensibly better HAART therapy.
Even if such data were to become available, and even if the data were favorable to HAART, the fact remains that the 513,486 AIDS patients reported to the CDC(4) prior to 1996 needlessly consumed billions of dollars worth of useless antiretrovirals that seriously compromised the quality, and perhaps even the quantity, of their lives.
Do these half-million individuals, their families and loved ones deserve to know that the promised benefits of these drugs aggressively promoted by the pharmaceutical industry, our public health institutions, and uncritical journalists, were nothing more than illusions? That the only thing real that resulted from their dedicated compliance to consuming these chemicals were compromised quality of life and debilitating side-effects? Or do we continue to divert attention from their senseless pain and suffering by shining the light of hope on the new unproven toxic drugs of the HAART-era?
While the results of the Collaborative Group study tell us why untreated HIV positive Ugandans are surviving just as long as their treated counterparts in the developed world (the drugs are demonstrably worthless, at best), they don¹t reveal why HIV positive Americans and Europeans who have full access to food, water and health care do not fare better than their impoverished Ugandan counterparts. Is there anything that can explain the remaining part of this paradox?
The Ugandans enrolled in the above studies did have access to regular check-ups, diagnostic testing, and free medication for routine health-care, which might have contributed to survival. However, when the researchers studied matched HIV positives outside of the study cohort who did not have access to these amenities, survival times were no different. The authors characterize this fact as a “disappointing” finding for which “we do not have a good explanation.”(1) It would seem from this that access to health-care and medicine is of little use to malnourished people with no access to food or clean water.
Could it be then that the HIV positive Ugandans in these studies are not surviving surprisingly long, but rather, that the HIV positive subjects in developed countries on antiretrovirals are actually dying surprisingly fast? Perhaps the anti-retrovirals are not worthless but are actually as harmful as poverty and malnutrition.
To check this hypothesis, I propose a study that would give some of the Ugandans in the above studies access to food and clean water and then assess their survival rates. If such a study were under taken, I predict we would see the median survival among untreated HIV positive Ugandans significantly surpass that of their medicated counterparts in the developed world. Can such a study be conducted? It¹s not unethical to give Africans food, is it?
These observations are consistent with the hypothesis that anti-retrovirals are killing people as effectively as poverty and malnutrition.
Dr. Rodney Richards, PhD, worked for Amgen Laboratories on the ELIZA HIV antibody test.
Footnotes
1. Progression to AIDS and death in the Collaborative Group study was significantly correlated with age at seroconversion. Therefore, the authors report disease progression according to age groups. Median time to AIDS ranged from 11.0 to 5.0 years for those aged 15-24 to 65+, respectively; and median time and death ranged from 12.5 to 4.0 years for those aged 15-24 to 65+, respectively. Based on the age distribution of subjects in the Ugandan study (1), age matched median time to AIDS and death is calculated to be 9.3 and 10.1 years, respectively, in the Collaborative Group study.
2. This data is approximated from the graphs in the respective publications.. See Fig. 2 in the Ugandan study, and Fig, 1 in the Collaborative Group study.
3. The Ugandan studies use the WHO Staging system to define disease progression. (WHO. Wkly Epidemiol Rec 1990; 65:221-8.) Unlike the Bangui definition of AIDS (WHO. Wkly Epid Rec 1986; 61:72-73.), which is based on clinical symptoms without an antibody test, the WHO staging system requires a positive anti-HIV test. It then attempts to gage disease progression according to four Stages. Stage 1: asymptomatic; Stage 2: mild symptoms, including weight loss of as little as 5%; Stage 3: weight loss greater than 10%, or treatable opportunistic infections; and Stage 4, which is synonymous with AIDS. Stage 4 includes many, but not all of the illnesses used by the CDC to define AIDS.
The staging system is progressive, hence when a person progresses to a higher stage, they cannot go back even if the condition is resolved. So when the authors report, “only 17% of participants remained symptom-free five years after seroconversion,” this is not striking. In fact, the vast majority of participants may actually be symptom-free as we speak. A single bout of sinusitis, dermatitis, or bacterial infection, or even a 5% weight loss (in a month), over this 5 year period leaves the subject classified as symptomatic, regardless if they recover or not.
The fact that disease progression to Stages 2 and 3 is remarkably rapid, while disease progression to Stage 4 (AIDS), or death, is remarkable slow, leaves one wondering, “of what value is this Staging system?”
References
1. Morgan D et al. HIV-1 infection in rural Africa: Is there a difference in median time to AIDS and survival compared with that in industrialized countries? AIDS. 2002; 16:597-603.
2. Collaborative Group on AIDS incubation and HIV Survival including the CASCADE EU Concerted Action. Time from HIV-1 seroconversion to AIDS and death before widespread use of highly-active antiretroviral therapy: collaborative re-analysis. Lancet 2000; 355:1131-37.
3. Morgan D et al. Progression to symptomatic disease in people infected with HIV-1 in rural Uganda: prospective cohort study. BMJ. 2002 Jan 26; 324:193-6.
4. CDC. Year end HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report 1995; Vol 7:No. 2.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:05:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/award.htm

MISSING VIRUS!
£ 1000 Reward

Blind romantics still believe HIV causes AIDS.
But if ‘HIV’ has never been isolated, what is
AIDS?

Never isolated? You bet! A cash prize of £ 1000
is offered to the first person finding one scien-
tific paper establishing actual isolation of HIV.

If you or a friendly ‘AIDS expert’ can prove
isolation, £ 1000 is yours. In cash. In public.

Interested? Pledge the money to your favourite
AIDS charity, why not?

We bet you’ll be surprised to discover the truth.

c o n t i n u u m
CHANGING THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT AIDS

The Rules of Isolation

The rules for isolation of a retrovirus were thoroughly discussed at the
Pasteur Institute, Paris, in 1973, and are the logical minimum requirements
for establishing the independent existence of HIV. They are:

1.Culture of putatively infected tissue.

2. Purification of specimens by density gradient ultracentrifugation.

3. Electron micrographs of particles exhibiting the morfological
characteristics and dimensions (100-120 nm) of retroviral particles at the
sucrose (or percoll) density of 1.16 gm/ml and containing nothing else, not
even particles of other morphologies or dimensions.

4. Proof that the particles contain reverse transcriptase.

5. Analysis of the particles’ proteins and RNA and proof that these are
unique.

6. Proof that 1-5 are a property only of putatively infected tissues and
can not be induced in control cultures. These are identical cultures, that
is, tissues obtained from matched, unhealthy subjects and cultured under
identical conditions differing only in that they are not putatively infected
with a retrovirus.

7. Proof that the particles are infectious, that is when PURE particles
are introduced into an uninfected culture or animal, the identical particle
is obtained as shown by repeating steps 1-5.

—————————————————————————-
—-

First Respons to Continuum Award (May ’96)

Edward King, editor of UK’s National AIDS Manual and writer for the Pink
Paper, published the first respons in NAM’s Treatment Update. The Perth
Group wrote a reply.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Duesberg Claims Continuum Reward (July/Aug. ’96)

Prof. Peter Duesberg believes HIV exists and has been isolated and
claims the Continuum Award. The Perth Group wrote a long reply, and a
summary. Neville Hodgkinson wrote also a summary. And Dr. Stefan Lanka wrote
a comment too.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Debate Continues (Feb./March ’97)

Prof. Peter Duesberg responded to the reply from the Australians and Dr.
Stefan Lanka. The Perth Group replied again, and Dr. Stefan Lanka responded
again too.

—————————————————————————-
—-

First Pictures of “Pure HIV” (March ’97)

Two historic papers in the leading science journal Virology in March
this year provide astonishing new data on the purification and isolation of
HIV. For the first time in the history of AIDS, elusive electron microscope
images of ‘HIV’ collected or ‘banded’ at the official density required for
retroviruses, 1.16 gm/ml, have been published, by a research group in
Germany. The electronmicrographs disclose “major contaminants” in “pure
HIV”.

HIV expert Hans Gelderblom of Berlin’s Robert Koch Institute, whose
photos of non-banded ‘HIV’ material have been the industrial benchmark since
1987, co-authored the first paper which describes the contamination as “an
excess of vesicles” – particles of cellular proteins, that may contain DNA
or RNA. In a consecutive paper, a US research team from the AIDS Vaccine
Programme in Maryland reveal carefully, “It is unknown how these cellular
proteins associate with the virus” and warn, “The presence of microvesicles
in purified retroviruses has practical implications”: both teams discuss the
resulting nonspecifity of HIV tests, all of which are based on early
unchecked “purified HIV”.

In an historic admission that it has never been established which
proteins constitute ‘HIV’, the US scientists conclude, “The development of
various purification strategies to separate microvesicles from HIV-particles
… will greatly enhance our ability to identify virion-associated cellular
proteins.” The imaging step in attempts at retroviral isolation was deemed
essential when isolation procedure was discussed and decided at the Pasteur
Institute, Paris in 1972, but it has never been published before in the
13-year history of ‘HIV’. (Continuum autumn 1997)

See some more pictures, and a comment by the Perth Group.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Interview Prof. Montagnier (July ’97)

The French journalist Djamel Tahi interviewed Dr. Luc Montagnier, the
discoverer of HIV, about the isolation of the virus. Although he believes he
isolated HIV, Montagnier confirms he could not purify the virus. The Perth
Group wrote a comment. (Continuum winter 1997)

—————————————————————————-
—-

More Money to Earn (Aug. ’98)

In addition to the Continuum Award organizations all around the world
offer more money for the evidence of the existence of HIV. One can already
collect over $ 25.000 by providing this evidence. See the additional terms.
(page in Spanish!)

—————————————————————————-
—-

Professor Questions Isolation (Oct. ’98)

Dr. Etienne de Harven is emeritus Professor of Pathology, University of
Toronto. He worked in electron microscopy (EM) primarily on the
ultrastructure of retroviruses throughout his professional career of 25
years at the Sloan Kettering Institute in New York and 13 years at the
University of Toronto. In 1956 he was the first to report on the EM of the
Friend virus in murine (mouse) leukemia, and in 1960, to coin the word
“budding” to describe steps of virus assembly on cell surfaces. He delivered
a speech at the 12th World AIDS Conference in Geneva at the session
“HIV-testing: Open Questions about Specificity”. He sent a letter and photo
to Continuum, he wrote an article for the same magazine, and an article for
Reappraising AIDS.

—————————————————————————-
—-

The Last Debate (Dec. ’99)

“Debate has been taking place amongst the HIV/AIDS dissident groups
regarding the wisdom of taking up the issue of HIV isolation as an argument
in our fight against mainstream AIDS science.” An article by the Perth
Group.

—————————————————————————-
—-

German Professor Questions HIV (Oct. ’00)

“During the past 20 years HIV-AIDS research has shown to a line of
critical scientists again and again that the existence of HIV has not been
proven without doubt, and that both from a aetiological (causal), and a
epidemiological view, it can not be responsible for the immunodeficiency
AIDS. In view of the general accepted HIV/AIDS hypothesis this appeared to
me so unbelievable that I decided to investigate it myself. After three
years of intensive and, above all, critical studies of the relevant original
literature, as an experienced virologist and molecular biologist I came to
the following surprising conclusion: Up to today there is actually no single
scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even
once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of
classical virology.”

Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and
Virology and a former director of the Department of Viroid Research at the
Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy near München, wrote a letter (in German)
to the Süddeutsche Zeitung. Prof. Sänger was in 1978 rewarded with the
prestigious Robert Koch Award. He also wrote the foreword (in German) for
the book ‘Mythos HIV’ written by the German journalist Michael Leitner.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Isolation Experiments (April ’01)

The South African government has set up a Presidential AIDS Advisory
Panel to determine their policy on HIV and AIDS. Several dissidents are on
the panel. They released an interim report and advised, because the lack of
data, to do more research. Ten experiments, including the true isolation of
HIV, have been proposed, and will be financed by the SA government. Read
more about South Africa and AIDS.

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Another Award (April ’02)

Alex Russel is offering £10,000 Reward for the first person who can
prove that HIV exists. See the details.

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:02:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,
I’m glad you are going for retreatment.  Don’t be hard on yourself – you got a taste of what it’s like to be free – you need to allow yourself to mess up and move on.  Everyone messes up, believe me – You are NOT alone.  A BIG HUG to you, Sean.
Love,
Mary

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:01:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vig, you write funny deranged messages to the vox
lists. Somehow though I have the feeling that most of
the doctors on this list would disagree with you and I
don’t think it’s a great idea for anyone to throw away
their HIV meds and start eating coconuts because some
person on a list tells them to do this.

Dr. Kary Mullis, Biochemist, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry:

“If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific
documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at
least with a high probability. There is no such document.” (Sunday Times
(London) 28 nov. 1993)

a.. Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and
Virology, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München. Robert Koch Award
1978:
“Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really
convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a
retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical
virology.” (Letter to Süddeutsche Zeitung 2000)

a.. Dr. Serge Lang, Professor of Mathematics, Yale University:
“I do not regard the causal relationship between HIV and any disease
as settled. I have seen considerable evidence that highly improper
statistics concerning HIV and AIDS have been passed off as science, and that
top members of the scientific establishment have carelessly, if not
irresponsibly, joined the media in spreading misinformation about the nature
of AIDS.” (Yale Scientific, Fall 1994)

a.. Dr. Harry Rubin, Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology, University
of California at Berkeley:
“It is not proven that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, nor is it
proven that it plays no role whatever in the syndrome.” (Sunday Times
(London) 3 April 1994)

a.. Dr. Richard Strohman, Emeritus Professor of Cell Biology at the
University of California at Berkeley:
“In the old days it was required that a scientist address the
possibilities of proving his hypothesis wrong as well as right. Now there’s
none of that in standard HIV-AIDS program with all its billions of dollars.”
(Penthouse April 1994)

a.. Dr. Harvey Bialy, Molecular Biologist, former editor of
Bio/Technology and Nature Biotechnology:
“HIV is an ordinary retrovirus. There is nothing about this virus that
is unique. Everything that is discovered about HIV has an analogue in other
retroviruses that don’t cause AIDS. HIV only contains a very small piece of
genetic information. There’s no way it can do all these elaborate things
they say it does.” (Spin June 1992)

a.. Dr. Roger Cunningham, Immunologist, Microbiologist and Director of
the Centre for Immunology at the State University of New York at Buffalo:
“Unfortunately, an AIDS ‘establishment’ seems to have formed that
intends to discourage challenges to the dogma on one side and often insists
on following discredited ideas on the other.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April
1994)

a.. Dr. Gordon Stewart, Emeritus Professor of Public Health, University
of Glasgow:
“AIDS is a behavioural disease. It is multifactorial, brought on by
several simultaneous strains on the immune system – drugs, pharmaceutical
and recreational, sexually transmitted diseases, multiple viral infections.”
(Spin June 1992)

a.. Dr. Alfred Hässig, (1921-1999), former Professor of Immunology at
the University of Bern, and former director Swiss Red Cross blood banks:
“The sentence of death accompanying the medical diagnosis of AIDS
should be abolished.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)

a.. Dr. Charles Thomas, former Professor of Biochemistry, Harvard and
John Hopkins Universities:
“The HIV-causes-AIDS dogma represents the grandest and perhaps the
most morally destructive fraud that has ever been perpetrated on young men
and women of the Western world.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)

a.. Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, New York Physician, founder of the American
Foundation for AIDS Research (AmFAR):
“The marketing of HIV, through press releases and statements, as a
killer virus causing AIDS without the need for any other factors, has so
distorted research and treatment that it may have caused thousands of people
to suffer and die.” (Sunday times (London) 17 May 1992)

a.. Dr. Andrew Herxheimer, Emeritus Professor of Pharmacology, UK
Cochrane Centre, Oxford:
“I think zidovudine [AZT] was never really evaluated properly and that
its efficacy has never been proved, but it’s toxicity certainly is
important. And I think it has killed a lot of people. Especially at the high
doses. I personally think it not worth using alone or in combination at
all.” (Continuum Oct. 2000)

a.. Dr. Etienne de Harven, Emeritus Professor of Pathology, at the
University of Toronto:
“Dominated by the media, by special pressure groups and by the
interests of several pharmaceutical companies, the AIDS establishment
efforts to control the disease lost contact with open-minded, peer-reviewed
medical science since the unproven HIV/AIDS hypothesis received 100% of the
research funds while all other hypotheses were ignored.” (Reappraising AIDS
Nov./Dec. 1998)

a.. Dr. Bernard Forscher, former editor of the U.S. Proceeding of the
National Academy of Sciences:
“The HIV hypothesis ranks with the ‘bad air’ theory for malaria and
the ‘bacterial infection’ theory of beriberi and pellagra [caused by
nutritional deficiencies]. It is a hoax that became a scam.” (Sunday Times
(London) 3 April 1994)

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 2:19:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vig, you write funny deranged messages to the vox
lists. Somehow though I have the feeling that most of
the doctors on this list would disagree with you and I
don’t think it’s a great idea for anyone to throw away
their HIV meds and start eating coconuts because some
person on a list tells them to do this.

I think that Sean’s problem is that he relapsed and
started smoking crack and doing heroin again. His
feelings about his mother, making sure he’s taking
broccoli and getting enough cauliflower might be
something he could improve his life with, but I don’t
get the idea they are the main problem right now 😉

Sean hang in there, if it’s 3 more weeks until you re
dose think about that and try not to beat up on
yourself, it never helps!

Carla B

— Vigilius Haufniensis
<thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

VMANN, all respect to you but please don’t advise
someone to quit taking their HIV meds! Sean can do
the wonderful things you suggest AND take his meds.I
would like to know why you feel as strongly as you
do though. Want to drop me a private e-mail?
calliemimosa@aol.com
I am always interested in new treatment ideas for
HIV/Aids.Thanks and like I said before, I respect
your statement, it just scares me for anyone to
encourage another to stop any meds prescribed by a
physician.Callie

VMANN:  HIV MEDS WILL KILL YOU.  HIV DOES NOT CAUSE
AIDS.  EAT COCONUTS.  put brocholli and cauliflower
in your raw vegetable juice.
hell, ask jules.  i aint making this shit up.
vigilius haufniensis

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:07:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VMANN, all respect to you but please don’t advise someone to quit taking their HIV meds! Sean can do the wonderful things you suggest AND take his meds.I would like to know why you feel as strongly as you do though. Want to drop me a private e-mail? calliemimosa@aol.com
I am always interested in new treatment ideas for HIV/Aids.Thanks and like I said before, I respect your statement, it just scares me for anyone to encourage another to stop any meds prescribed by a physician.Callie

VMANN:  HIV MEDS WILL KILL YOU.  HIV DOES NOT CAUSE AIDS.  EAT COCONUTS.  put brocholli and cauliflower in your raw vegetable juice.
hell, ask jules.  i aint making this shit up.
vigilius haufniensis

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!- Dear Hannah
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:18:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,

I told my mum
about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me
“They’re just dreams Hannah”

Reading your email both saddened and angered me.  How
dare someone try to steal your dreams from you- our
dreams are one of the ONLY things in life we can
really have possession and complete ownership of!
Personally, I think your idea/dream is wonderful, and
I think you should pursue it with all your might.

I’m only 3 years older than you, so I should hardly be
dispensing advice, but I can tell you this, with all
certainty: doing dope will not solve your problems,
but rather will aggravate and accentuate them.  I
think it might be time to give your friends the old
‘heave-ho’, for your sanity’s sake.  Does your drug
buddy know that he is a trigger for you?  Real friends
don’t want to drag their chums down, babe….He needs
to realize this.

good luck, luv
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:51:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean,

I’m gonna sing you a song: “Ooh, child, things are
gonna get easier…”

I’m glad to hear about your retreatment, but not so
happy to hear you’re not taking your meds.  Can you
feel a difference, physically?

Keep on keepin’on, things will get brighter…we’ve
all been there…

luv Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested
Date: September 27, 2004 at 1:08:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hahahahahahahaaha!!!!!
I showed this to my 14 year old step daughter, who says she HATES Algebra, and she LOVED it! She copied it off to take to her Algebra teacher!
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] VMANN was previously thread-doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:52:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VMANN, all respect to you but please don’t advise someone to quit taking their HIV meds!
Sean can do the wonderful things you suggest AND take his meds.
I would like to know why you feel as strongly as you do though. Want to drop me a private e-mail? calliemimosa@aol.com
I am always interested in new treatment ideas for HIV/Aids.
Thanks and like I said before, I respect your statement, it just scares me for anyone to encourage another to stop any meds prescribed by a physician.
Callie

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:49:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fuck bro, shit. I will be blasting you some cosmic fucking vibes to help
you shake this shit. I’ve gotten some great feedback from peeps on the
list and they are tops. I wish you the best man and please be safe and
careful.  If yer on hiv meds, bro, take them man.

VMANN:  STOP taking them.  AIDS is bullshit.  thats whats keeping you down.
eat coconuts.  do raw vegetable and fruit juices.  walk at least 1/2 hour  a
day.  drink plenty of water.  balance your exercise (walking) with adequate
rest.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 10:22:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I know people did not like what I had to say about not using ibogaine as a panacea for addiction. Though it does undo the physical aspect, that has never been any of our problem. Jason is right. You have nothing to feel fucked up about. The very reason we are here is because we have a rough time ridding ourselves of “addiction”! I don’t think ibogaine brings one up and then down, it is the false implication that this is ‘the answer’. It is a miracle drug but all it can really do is enlighten you and the rest is not very different than other treatments. Sean, you are fine! If you get high, you start over. It is not a reason to give up. You may pick up again. That is not the important thing. I know you have learned more about yourself than at any other time in your life. That is what you should concentrate on. Just keep learning man and don’t count how many times you got high.

I’m going to say it again. I’m doing ibo in a couple of weeks and if it helps me get off drugs…GREAT! BUT if it doesn’t, that is fine! There is a wonderful spiritual and psychological experience I want am looking forward to and that is fine with me. I say this because Sean, Every single time I did some treatment and it didn’t work, I felt so angry, so depressed, so at the end of my life, but it’s not fair to me! I looked at treatments as a panacea and there are no panaceas. Just keep learning and start from scratch if you do get high. It really is not such a fucked up thing!

Keep going bro’,

Julian

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:18:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no
reason
to not take your HIV medications.  If Ibogaine were an approved medication
you > would most likely not be having these problems.  Too bad your doctor
can’t > hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.
Take care of yourself.> > Howard

VMANN:  amphetamine use often is an attempt to compensate for emptiness in
ones life.  have you thought about the eternal recurrence?  or the crack
eternal recurrence?  what do you have to do to make your life
experienceworthy for its own sake?  what do you have to do to make your life
experienceworthy for its own sake without crack?
tell me about your relationship with your mother.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:13:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list,Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

VMANN:  have you considered turning your life over to christ?

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.
Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.Sean

VMANN:  take some coconut, dude.
there’s NO SUCH THING AS HIV.  AIDS is bullshit.
and get on raw vegetable juice, for christs sake.  sweeten it up with some apples and oranges.
vigilius haufniensis

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested
Date: September 27, 2004 at 9:00:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wonderful, Howard.  If this media report doesn’t put
things in the proper perspective, I don’t know what would!
🙂

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 12:50 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested

Subject: Teacher Arrested
Teacher Arrested
At Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport today, an individual later discovered to
be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while
in, possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and
a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John
Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra
movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math
instruction.
“Al-gebra is a fearsome cult,” Ashcroft said. “They desire average
solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a
search of absolute value. They use secret code names like ‘x’ and ‘y’
and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have determined they
belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates
in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, ‘there
are 3 sides to every triangle.’ When asked to comment on the arrest,
President Bush said, “If God had wanted us to have better weapons of
math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes.”

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 9:00:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

I’m thinking of you and sending lots of positive vibes your way.  Always remember things often look better in the morning!  I know it sounds silly but when I’m most depressed I fordce myself to go to bed and sleeo coz things always seem a bit better in the morning.  Don’t beat yourself up-we’re all in this together.  Just try dmage limitation-y’know harm reduction and all that.  If there’s anything I can do from all the way over here just let me know.

Keep posting and don’t be ashamed-we luv ya honey!

Loadsa love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:48:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Mary 🙂

After spending the past 5yrs (I know it doesn’t sound long but I’m only 23) chasing H and letting the rest of my life disappear down the drain I’m now interested in so many things-it seems like there’s so much out there, so many totally wierd and wonderful things!  I haven’t really settled into anything if you know what I mean.  I’ve been reading bits on Buddhism, meditation etc etc. I’m trying to practise visualisation.  I’m trying to get back into Yoga.  Y’know when you discover something and it just seems so right?  I’ve always been interested in Wicca and that feels really right.  I’ve gotta life coach.  Since I was a little kid I’ve loved animals especially horses and dreamed of being a horse whisperer like Monty roberts if you’ve heard of him?  Now my life coach is trying to get me funded to go on some courses and I’m going to meet a local one next week to see if I can work voluntarily to gain experience!  (I’m trying really hard not to let my excitement bubble over coz I’m still kinda expecting it to all fuck up in my usual pessimistic way!)  I’ve had a friend’s pony to look after for a couple of months and that’s been wonderful as I’ve been riding most days (I didn’t ride the whole time I was into my gear) I’m just gutted now as I have to give him back and I love him so much and I won’t see him again :-()

So why have I been dabbling again.  Today’s Day 3 again but I have a Sub script so I’m not really ill.  But I feel really angry.  I don’t even know why I’m writing all this, just that I have to speak even to no one.  I’ve got 2 friends staying in me & my boyfs tiny 1bedroom flat and i’m starting to go mad-cleaning up after 3 men.  I feel really tearful lke my insides wanna explode.  My dogs nagging me for a walk and barking at nothing. Now my landlords turned up!

When things get tuff I run back to gear like a baby. I MUST NOT…  It doesn’t help that one of my friends staying is my old partner in crime so we’ve been fucking up together.  He’s in the other room n I can’t talk to him cos I know I’m not strong enough right now to say no.  AAAAH!

I’m hopefully going to open university in Feb and I’m dreading it.  I only went to Uni I now realise coz my parents wanted me to.  I’ve always been the black sheep of our family (on my 21st BDay a family friend got my a black toy sheep as a joke) always in trouble, always the mardy one coz I’ve always been depressed (which doesnt exist to them)  They hated me, I got kicked out, my mum and I nearly tore each others hearts out!  So I wanted to do something good, make them happy for once.  And what did I do?  Get into H and get shit loads in debt and never finish Uni.  So they paid hundreds, porbably thousands in fees for me just to flunk out.  I was looking forward to completeing my degree (Its in Psychology!!!) but now I’m terrified.  The more I think about it the more I realise I haven’t got a chance and I’m just gonna fail again.  I told my mum about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me “They’re just dreams Hannah”

Why an I writing all this?  I feel like I have no identity.  I feel scared all the time…  I give up now this is just getting to self-pitying!  I must learn to think less and do more…

Sorru ecveryone I meant this to be a happy post – a ‘look how much changes when you give up the gear’ post.  But maybe nothing changes.  Nice people are giving me chances but I’m just gonna fuck up again.  I might aswell have a hit right now! NO, no that was a crap joke.  I just feel bad and worried and I have no one to talk to.  No one that understands or who will even let me finish-normally they just jump in and tell me I’m being an idiot!

Right…pulll myself together…I’m going to check a few emails, walk my dog who appears to be bursting for a wee and ride my pony and forget about all the shit I’ve gotta do like clean my flat etc.

Not sure what this rant meant, forget it and carry on! 🙂

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] current chapter 13
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:27:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Thought I’d share the following, just to try and liven up a dreary,
slightly depressing Monday morn. Hope you all are well (especially you
Sean).
Chapter 13-
Scarred but Smarter?

“Hey, ‘scuse me, you got a light?” Across the street from the Barnes and
Noble’s at Astor Place, I hold out the clipped half a cigarette in my cupped
hand. The two long-haired metal heads break off their conversation and look
at me, squinting in the rain.

“Sure man,” says the shorter of the two, flicking his lighter for me. As I
take a deep pull on the butt, the two continue staring at me, the one with
the lighter smiling in friendly fashion, the other obviously thinking hard.

“I know you dude,” the taller one says as I lower my smoke.

“Oh yeah, you two look familiar,” I answer, trying to figure out if I really
have seen these two before, not recognizing them at all.

“Hell yeah, I do know you,” he says, “You’re the guy who sold us that fake
acid!” As he says this, he throws the punch he’s been winding up behind him,
unnoticed by me. He punches me right on my nose, directly into my face,
knocking me completely off my feet and flat onto my back on the
rain-drenched sidewalk. I immediately try to gain my feet, making it to my
hands and knees, watching a torrent of blood pour from my face like a faucet
of blood, mixing with the dirty rainwater rushing by in the gutter inches
from my bleeding nose. The big guy steps up to me and kicks me in the gut a
couple of time as I try to get up, knocking the wind out of me and curling
me into a ball in the rain. I pull my hands up over my face, trying to
protect it from more damage while I attempt to draw air into my lungs. I get
kicked with the guy’s big black engineer boots a couple more times, then
laughing uproariously, they run away up the sidewalk, turning the corner and
leaving me wondering what the hell happened.

I roll back onto my hands and knees, seeing that incredibly thick stream of
blood gushing from my face, splashing as it hits the curb, and feel sick to
my stomach. I shake my head trying to find my equilibrium, trying to climb
to my feet and not doing such a great job of it. Someone from the health
food store behind me comes out to help me up.

“Would you like me to call the police?” he asks me as he hands me some paper
towels.

“No, thanks, but I’ve got to go. I don’t have time.” What would I tell the
cops? “Oh, they were mad at me for selling them fake acid.” That wouldn’t go
over so well I think, so I too walk away from the large bloodstain still
sticky on the sidewalk. It too will soon be gone, washed away like all the
other trash and detritus of the city, rinsed into the gutter and away.

This is the first time someone has really punched me out for ripping them
off. I have been threatened by irate vics on a number of occasion but have
always managed to get away with it one way or another, either by giving them
more fake drugs or turning them on to some of my real drugs or simply
ditching them after giving them some lame excuse. I take the threats and
risks in stride usually, figuring that if I’m going to sell fake drugs to
strangers on the streets day after day, I have to take responsibility for
whatever happens as a result, that I have to play the game as my turn comes.
That karma thing comes into play here as well.

A rainy murky Summer morning, I’m having no luck finding anyone interested
in buying acid or any drugs for that matter. Already sick before getting
socked in the face, now I’m miserable, feeling like total shit. The paper
towels are soaked with blood but I haven’t anything else with which to catch
the rivulets still streaming from my mangled nostril. There’s no way I’m
going to check the damage in my reflection yet, because I know I’m going to
have to go to the emergency room at some point, and once I actually see what
‘s been done to my nose I won’t be able to put it off. Therefore I ignore it
as best I can.

I stagger across 3rd Ave, heading West along St. Mark’s Place, past the
jewelry and eyeglass stalls, past a surprising number of pedestrians out in
the rain, trying all the while to hide the bloody mess my face has become.
Crossing 1st. Ave, I spot two young women sitting on a stoop, student stoner
types wearing baggy jeans and wet, dready hair, sitting in the drizzle
looking around left and right as though searching for something.

“How you guys doin’?” I stop in front of them. “You guys got a cigarette I
can bum, please?” They stare at me and my fucked up face, but one hands me a
cigarette.

“What happened to your face?” She asks, lighting my cigarette.

“Oh shit, I can’t believe it. I got mugged a half hour ago by a couple of
scumbags in Washington Square,” I tell her, making it up as I go. “They said
they wanted to buy some of my acid, but instead of paying me, one of them
punched me as the other snatched about 25 trips right out of my hand. The
fuckers.” I play this game all the time, thinking very fast on my feet when
I have to.

“That sucks man!” Both girls say in unison. “Shouldn’t you go to the
hospital?”

“Well, I gotta meet my girlfiend first,” I tell them. “Say, you two wouldn’t
be interested in any trips, would you?” They glance at one another and shake
their heads.

“No, but we’d love some weed. Got any on you?”

“I can get you some fat bags. How much do you want? I can get $30 bags and
up.” I’m willing to go and come back for them so long as they give me enough
money to cop both coke and dope. Thirty bucks will get me a bag of coke,
dope and a nice dime bag of herb for them.

“Can you get $50 worth?”

“Sure, but I want $10 for running.” I’m trying hard not to show my
incredulity that they’re going to hand me $50, bloody ragged mess of a
stranger that I am, but it’s more believable that I’m legit if I charge them
a nominal fee for copping for them than were I to offer to run cop for them
for free.
“How do we know you’re going to come back?” So they aren’t as innocent as I’
ve been thinking.
“Here,” I say, pulling out a baggy of blank orange construction paper. “You
can hold onto my trips. There’s a lot more money in this bag than what you’
re giving me, so you guys have to wait for me to come back. Please, don’t
leave with my wares.” They look at one another again, then exchange the
baggy for three $20s. “I’ll be right back, fifteen minutes tops. Please do
not take off.”

I cop $20 of pot, two bags of dope, and a $20 of coke. Then I go give the
girls their weed and take back my construction paper. Although I’ve way
overcharged them, I don’t feel bad nor guilty, as we’re all getting
something out of the deal. They’re happy with the bag, more that I came back
at all. There are plenty on these streets who wouldn’t have returned, even
me at times.

When I finally meet up with my girlfiend a few hours later, it’s almost
dusk. She freaks when she sees my nose.

“What the fuck happened to you?” She yelps, gazing in horror at my face. I
still haven’t taken a look. “Come on, you have to go to the hospital right
now!” She hails a cab, which we take to the Beth Israel emergency room.

As soon as the admitting nurse sees my nose, she hurries me into one of the
back rooms to see a surgeon as fast as possible. I’m beginning to feel the
second bag I’d bought earlier but saved until riding in the cab, where I
banged it quickly into my arm. I end up waiting another hour and a half for
the surgeon, struggling not to nod off and fall out of the chair in front of
the mothers and their crying children waiting their turns. Eventually a
nurse comes and gets me, leading me to a sterile white room.
“Lay down on this table. The doctor will be right in.” She fritters around
the room for a moment then leaves. Above me there’s a mirror, giving me a
direct look at the damage for the first time. The guy who hit me must have
been wearing a big ring, something with a lot of pointy spikes or something.
My nose is completely severed along the septum at the top of my nostril, a
gaping gash as the skin hangs away in a loose flap. I almost throw up right
there, but manage to keep it in by closing my eyes, willing myself to let go
and float in the dope. I drift in and out of consciousness as the nurse
finished scrubbing the dirt and grime that’s gotten into the wound as I
wandered the Lower East Side today. The bad part comes when the surgeon
sticks his anesthetic syringe directly into the wound a number of times
prior to sewing my nostril closed. Other than for that excruciating pain, I’
m barely aware of the procedure. The doctor leaves me on the table to rest
for a few minutes when he’s done, then come back to talk.

“Why’d you keep passing out during surgery?” He grills me. “What are you on?
What’d you take?” Not wanting detox, but rather more dope as soon as
possible, I shrug off his questions.

“Aw Doc, I’m fucking beat, in pain, and yeah, I did some dope today. I gotta
go. Thanks for putting my nose back together.” The surgeon shakes his head,
but drops the questioning.

Stopping at the toilets before leaving, I catch sight in the mirror of the
bright blue stitching the surgeon used to sew up my nose, shining from my
face like a neon sign saying to all and sundry, “Hi there, guess who got
punched in the face?” It actually looks kind of cool to be honest. I’ve
never seen blue stitching before. It’s almost stylish.

Instead of going back to get the stitching removed as scheduled, I leave the
stitches in a couple of extra week’s time as I continue my endless scamming,
scoring and shooting until finally another junky tells me I can take them
out myself, that there’s no reason why I’d have to wait all day at the
hospital for the surgeon to do it for me, which is why I’ve put it off. So I
take the small fingernail scissors I use to cut up the blank paper I sell
and snip the stitches one by one, pulling them effortlessly and painlessly
from my nostril. Healed nicely, there’s still a scar which will remind me of
this incident forever after. It doesn’t stop me from continuing as I’ve been
though. As the band Cryin’ and Drivin’ once sang, “There’s always a chance
to get restarted to a new world, new life, scarred but smarter.” I might be
scarred, but I’m not yet much smarter.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:14:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re sucking sores
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:01:48 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but I should note that overall the article does seem to be questioning the
current tactics used to wage war on meth.
That is a plus, even if they printed such a silly story as prisoners sucking
on new inmates’ sores and wounds to get the drugs leaching from their system
in the past.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sucking sores for drugs- egad!
Date: September 27, 2004 at 7:57:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
If this paper really printed such an allegation as you will read at the
below URL and in this excerpt, prohibition and drug insanity is far more
widespread than even I thought. I mean, I’ve noted many times in many places
that for far too long the prohibitionist maniacs have had a free ride, where
much of the press reguritates prohibitionist bullmanure without question far
too often. Things are changing, but not nearly fast enough, as is evidenced
in the following article.

http://www.brainerddispatch.com/stories/092504/new_0925040002.shtml

Inmate: ‘It’s an epidemic’
By MATT ERICKSON and RENEE RICHARDSON
Staff Writers

Justin Nelson looks like a university student. He follows state politics.
And he has been a meth addict since he was about 14 years old. Now he is in
jail on charges of meth manufacturing. He said programs like DARE don’t
work. Even the prison system isn’t working.

“I’m looking at 86 months. I’m 21. Yeah, I have an addiction but do I
deserve to go to prison for seven years? No,” Nelson said. “If someone has
cancer, do you stick them in a room? No, you treat them.”

Nelson said meth is everywhere. “I can go to a gas station and spot a meth
user a mile away,” he said. “Everybody is doing it. It’s an epidemic.”

He also doesn’t know if his stay in jail and prison will scare him straight.
Like the women inmates, Nelson doesn’t believe more prison time is the
answer.

“In my heart I’d like to tell you that 86 months from now I’ve learned, but
I’ll probably be so upset for having to do 86 months I won’t be helpful even
to myself,” he said. “And if I didn’t know how to cook dope when I went in,
I’m going to know when I get out.”

Watching the men congregate in the Crow Wing County Jail and hearing them
talk about their meth use is a stark contrast to listening to the women.

Instead of six women each at a seat, more than 20 men fill the recreation
area to standing room only. And they don’t talk so much about their personal
experiences as they give their views on the meth issue at large.

They read the Dispatch’s earlier meth series with an insider’s perspective
and they disagreed with certain facts. They questioned a story of jail
inmates who were reported to have sucked on fresh sores of the newly
incarcerated inmate in hopes of getting last traces of meth as it leached
through the skin.

They found the story unbelievable themselves and scoffed at the notion. They
questioned cleanup costs associated with meth labs. They wondered why more
emphasis wasn’t put on preventing meth use.

Those who did speak about meth did so freely, like friends discussing a
football game or neighbors talking over a backyard fence. They went on
diatribes about what is wrong with the war on drugs, bantered freely about
how people can combat the drug and debated the practicalities of drug law
enforcement.

snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:29:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use.<

Oops, I meant, NOT even aftercare of the most professional sort…

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

awww sean,
Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least,
it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face
or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having
the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful
and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in
general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit
smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list.
I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or
not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it
really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:02:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

awww sean,
Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:26:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I’m with you dude. It has got to be tough being in your position and feeling more ostracized than just a gay dude, but an addicted gay dude to boot. I don’t know what kind of shit gets laid on you on a day to day basis but it has got to be substantial. I’m not saying to go back to the rooms but maybe a sponsor type, (underline type), might do you some good. Someone you trust to call every day and then when times get tough. BEFORE you use. Using aint the end of the world in my opinion, long as you learn something. but you know as well as I do not every body comes back after they go back out. Your still with us. Consider yourself lucky and get back to the good fight man. You know you can so do it. I want to hear your observations after I come out the other side of the Ibogaine experience. I almost told you the story about one of my best friends, killer guitar player, one of the best I’ve ever played with. Call me and I will. I’ll send you my number off list in case you lost it. Much love to you brother.           Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:47:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,

Before you think “.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.”
Please read this, that will make you think twice, and not feel bad about those suicidal medications.
http://www.sickofdoctors.addr.com/articles/top100_aids_inconsistencies.htm

Please do,

Be well,

Sara

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 2:29:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fuck bro, shit
I will be blasting you some cosmic fucking vibes to help
you shake this shit. I’ve gotten some great feedback from peeps on the
list and they are tops. I wish you the best man and please be safe and
careful.  If yer on hiv meds, bro, take them man.

Good luck from a junky in constant limbo as well.
n

Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad,
after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.
I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of
hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I
don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 1:37:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

You are in my thoughts and prayers, sending you a ray of hope and love across the miles.

lori

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:50:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Teacher Arrested
Teacher Arrested
At Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport today, an individual later discovered to
be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while
in, possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and
a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John
Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra
movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math
instruction.
“Al-gebra is a fearsome cult,” Ashcroft said. “They desire average
solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a
search of absolute value. They use secret code names like ‘x’ and ‘y’
and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have determined they
belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates
in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, ‘there
are 3 sides to every triangle.’ When asked to comment on the arrest,
President Bush said, “If God had wanted us to have better weapons of
math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes.”

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:25:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,

Hang in there. Try to figure out what happened in therapy. You’ve got
great chances, it’s just a question of seeing them.

after a 60 hour work week.

Try to avoid these. If you find yourself coming off one, treat yourself
as sick and go to bed.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:20:23 -0700 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn
toilet again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment
for about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray
of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide
I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking
fast.

Sean

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 11:57:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Hope is in the wind.
111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 10:38:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,glad to hear you have set up re treatment,it has taken me 3 times & some slips,and many attempts prior to ibogaine as well,sometimes just amking the decision to stop helps me.Regardless ,Im sending you unconditional ove & support-shell

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hey Sean,
I am not going to give advice,as when I am feeling lost and hopeless,the last thing I want to hear is someones advice.
Just remember that when you are feeling hopless,it is only a feeling,it is not who you are.

I am sending hope and love your way Sean, it’s f..ked I know, f..k all this shit,I am sick of it.
I think many of us understand,  well..partly anyway.
You are not alone.                                                  Understanding, and sending hope your way. Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:20 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 9:50:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,
I am not going to give advice,as when I am feeling lost and hopeless,the last thing I want to hear is someones advice.
Just remember that when you are feeling hopless,it is only a feeling,it is not who you are.

I am sending hope and love your way Sean, it’s f..ked I know, f..k all this shit,I am sick of it.
I think many of us understand,  well..partly anyway.
You are not alone.                                                  Understanding, and sending hope your way. Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:20 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 9:05:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh Sean!
Honey, I am so sorry! PLEASE, do not keep kicking yourself! I am afraid I can’t talk you out of it if you have been doing crack, kicking yourself in the ass goes hand in hand with that stuff!
Please Sean, try to get some sleep. Tomorrow is the FIRST day of the rest of your life. The past is the past. Leave it there.
Cry if you need to. DO NOT USE ANY MORE FUCKING CRACK! Do not use any more dope. Surely you are not physically going to withdraw. If you do start though maybe an emergency dosing of Ibogaine can be found.
NO MORE DOPE MAN!
Get your butt to work and do the next right thing. Pray to some higher power even if you don’t believe. Act as if you do.
Do you have a support person in NA or AA? If you do, use them right now. Use anyone who supports you NOT using.
Call me if you start to use again. Before you use, not after.
I am mailing my cell number to your private e-mail.
I love you Sean! Virtual hug coming to you NOW!
(((((Sean)))))
Callie

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 8:34:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean if putting it down, doing treatment(of any kind), and leaving it
alone were easy none of us would be here reading this. Using crack and dope
all weekend is normal behaviour for us. Going to work on Monday geek’d is
normal behaviour. Changing the only thing we know how to do really well is
very challenging, don’t quit trying. I do know EXACTLY how you are feeling
right now..
bf

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 8:19:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry to hear that you are having a rough time of it Sean. Am glad though that you are scheduled for treatment soon. Me to – I’ve got about 6 weeks to go on mine. You are in my thoughts. Ryan (aka Mark)

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:20:23 EDT

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeź Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 7:19:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/26/04 5:21:07 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no reason
to not take your HIV medications.  If Ibogaine were an approved medication you
would most likely not be having these problems.  Too bad your doctor can’t
hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.

Take care of yourself.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 6:20:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn
Date: September 26, 2004 at 2:05:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This should be interesting.
Hope you do continue to post pre-and post- reports Randy.
As always luck and joy be with you.

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn

Mindvoxians, I can’t believe that this might be the last time I start my
Sunday morning off with a dose of methadone. I am getting so pumped up that
I can’t sleep very well so I got up around 5 and built a fire in the fire
pit and sat around it and played my 9 string and sang till my voice started
crackin’. I am definitely getting nervous about dosing on the first, but I
have some good providers to see me through it and my mother is a nurse
practitioner and she’s way on the ball. I’m in great hands I do believe. I
am so grateful that she showed me this list. I would never have been able to
work out getting treatment without you guys. Thanx to all of you for the
kindness and support you have shown me. O yea, and the stern smack to the
intellect when I needed it just to get me this far. This is just the
beginning from what I understand. I guess I’ll know after I dose on Friday.
Its hard to explain the feelings I am having right now. I think maybe I’ll
start my journal today and write down whats going on and look at it later.
Ought to be interesting later on down the line. This ROCKS     Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) for Mark- call me
Date: September 26, 2004 at 1:21:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “mcorcoran” <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mark, oh disappearing one,
Give me a call. The doorman was confused and didn’t recognize you, so
when you asked, “is Preston here?” he said no, but I was there. By the time
I told him to let you in, you had gone already and I couldn’t find you. V
said you were looking for me, and I felt bad that you split thinking I’d
split. Soooo, give me a call when you get this.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn
Date: September 26, 2004 at 11:08:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy!So glad to hear youre on your way,put on your seat belt!Were here for you when you re enter-Shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Mindvoxians, I can’t believe that this might be the last time I start my Sunday morning off with a dose of methadone. I am getting so pumped up that I can’t sleep very well so I got up around 5 and built a fire in the fire pit and sat around it and played my 9 string and sang till my voice started crackin’. I am definitely getting nervous about dosing on the first, but I have some good providers to see me through it and my mother is a nurse practitioner and she’s way on the ball. I’m in great hands I do believe. I am so grateful that she showed me this list. I would never have been able to work out getting treatment without you guys. Thanx to all of you for the kindness and support you have shown me. O yea, and the stern smack to the intellect when I needed it just to get me this far. This is just the beginning from what I understand. I guess I’ll know after I dose on Friday. Its hard to explain the feelings I am having right now. I think maybe I’ll start my journal today and write down whats going on and look at it later. Ought to be interesting later on down the line. This ROCKS     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn
Date: September 26, 2004 at 7:21:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvoxians, I can’t believe that this might be the last time I start my Sunday morning off with a dose of methadone. I am getting so pumped up that I can’t sleep very well so I got up around 5 and built a fire in the fire pit and sat around it and played my 9 string and sang till my voice started crackin’. I am definitely getting nervous about dosing on the first, but I have some good providers to see me through it and my mother is a nurse practitioner and she’s way on the ball. I’m in great hands I do believe. I am so grateful that she showed me this list. I would never have been able to work out getting treatment without you guys. Thanx to all of you for the kindness and support you have shown me. O yea, and the stern smack to the intellect when I needed it just to get me this far. This is just the beginning from what I understand. I guess I’ll know after I dose on Friday. Its hard to explain the feelings I am having right now. I think maybe I’ll start my journal today and write down whats going on and look at it later. Ought to be interesting later on down the line. This ROCKS     Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Florida
Date: September 25, 2004 at 11:18:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Patrick and anyone else in Florida! Is it still
there? You have another giant hurricane right over
south florida right now, that’s 3 in a row in the last
2 weeks? Hope everyone is safe and doing well 🙂

Carla B

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 25, 2004 at 10:03:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no
wait a minute thats Judas Priest), <

LOL.
Ahhh, those good ol’ days. I’m now just going to HAVE to play this
tonight while dj’ing.
I’m too tired to write more right now, will add more tomorrow.
But you’ll certainly be able to drive by the 21st if you’re doing it on the
1st and 2nd. No trouble at all so far as I can tell from my own experience.
And yeah, I’m going to have Livin’ After Midnight playing in my head
until I hear it on the soundsystem…thanks Randy.
;-0)))
But of luck and safe journeys on your upcoming shindig with Ibo, I wish
you the best and well.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no
wait a minute thats Judas Priest), for that release party. I’m gonna’ be
treated with Ibogaine on Oct. 1 or 2. Do you think I’ll be able to drive by
then? Its probably about 90 miles from here to the city. And where the hell
can I park? I’ve never been to the city, I think I’ll take the Amtrak in
from Albany or Hudson. Anyway I’d like to be there. You have done a lot of
good work for this project. I don’t post, but I read the Drug War list on my
Moms outlook express thing. I think we all should support artists as much as
we can. God knows nobody gets paid enough until they are huge and then they
don’t need it. Thanx to you guys who paved the way for me any what looks
like soon to be many others to get treatment where we can afford it. You
guys and girls, ROCK. Now I’m gonna’ have Livin’ after Midnight playing in
my head all day. As George Clinton (my favorite Clinton by the way) would
say, “Free your mind and your ass will follow.”                Randy

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and chanting
Date: September 25, 2004 at 8:25:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy,
I repeat that I am no expert on the subject but to my knowledge you want to chant the mantra in such a way that you feel the vibration of the words and this vibration will feel good, or resonate, with you.  Mantra actually sounds very pleasing and I think that the pitch is again what feels good.  You don’t need any special beads or beads at all to do this.  I think the traditional use of the mala is a sort of aid but not a necessity just as one could recite the rosary without using one.
If you want to find out more without spending money http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa021803b.htm discusses the mantra I work with or you can search the net under sound mantra.  The woman that gave me this mantra is not a guru as such but I have always felt good around her and I trust her.  I think that you are drawn to finding out about this so I encourage you to do just that but you can play with it too in the sense of not being afraid to do something wrong.  My teachers always talk about how the wisdom of their tradition is marketed to Westerners.  I, like you, tend to want to understand things intellectually.  I don’t think there is anything negative about that unless it prevents you from playing and enjoying. Best to you Randy!
Mary

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and chanting
Date: September 25, 2004 at 7:50:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary, when you chant like this do you do it in a normal speaking tone? I know you don’t have to do it in certain key or anything but I guess you would just try and not waver up and down and kind of drone it. What about the beads that Nick was speaking of? Would any kind of beads work? I like the idea of using them unless it somehow distracts me. I’m gonna’ try this.                   Randy

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 25, 2004 at 2:40:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary
From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 25, 2004 at 12:10:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah Randy, you are so right when I was a little kid (at the end of the 70’s )I loved Judas Priest Music without knowing Rob is a gay. I don’t care if he is gay or not. I’m very older now but I still love Judas Priest. Something deferent with that group and the crew is only when they are together good seperately not (I mean Fight and Two sucks) I Also I love Rainbow, VanHallen, UFO, Led Zeppelin and so many more…

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Fakeplacebo, sorry it takes me so long to get back to ya, but I usually get on the ‘puter about 4 in the morning, do my thing and then get on with the day, so usually its the next day before I answer. Yea I love Priest. Goes back to the early 80’s when I was skinny enough to be a front man/lead singer. Everybody I knew then was in to Judas Priest seems like. I’m not gay but it used to piss me off to here the red necks talk down about gay guys and then go to the bar and scream out “lets hear some Priest” not knowing the singer was gay. What idiots! Rob could wail tho couldn’t he? If I could have screamed like him I’d probably still be fronting a metal band. I guess I just like stuff fast and loud.     ROCK                    Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 25, 2004 at 11:08:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,

Thanks a lot for all the info!  Have an awesome
weekend!

cheers,
Julie
— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is
this
true?

In a message dated 9/24/04 3:03:23 PM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is
there
no difference between the two?

Julie,

There are differences between ibogaine and iboga
(Tabernanthe iboga).
Ibogaine is a purified alkaloid, one of many found
in Tabernanthe iboga.  T. iboga
whether an extract or the bark of the root contains
no less than twelve
alkaloids having various distinct effects and
potencies as well as, in many cases, as
with ibogaine, forming metabolites that may have
similar but distinct
actions.

Ibogaine is both faster acting and shorter acting
than most extracts and
certainly faster and shorter acting than root bark
if for no other reasons than
absorption. For instance, in my personal experience
ibogaine is fully effective
within 1-1/2 hours and the dreamlike visualization
lasts three to four hours.
Total alkaloids extracts I have used took two to
four hours to become fully
effective and the dreamlike visualization phase
lasted eight to twelve hours.
Certainly there are distinctions between the effects
of the purified alkaloid
and the total plant product as twelve alkaloids and
their metabolites will
produce more varied effects than a single alkaloid.
The product in my own
experience that I liked best was 85% – 90% ibogaine
and the balance other iboga
alkaloids principally tabernanthine and ibogamine.
Other than a crude extract
that was 15% total alkaloids, the ibogaine extract
of 85-90% was the least pure
ibogaine product I tried.  Had I had products that
were 75% ibogaine I may have
liked them better.  I will not be able to comment
however, as I never had the
opportunity.

I would be very interested to learn of the
experiences of others.  Three
people could take the same product and have
different effects and that is not just
ibogaine specific.

Whether you use root bark or ibogaine or total
extracts you have to become
familiar with the substance you are using as is the
practice in both shamanic
and western medicine including African practices.

The original quote is found below and you will
notice that the author does
not say iboga, “in it’s natural form was the ONLY
way to go…”

Howard

“You think ibogaine is the only active product in
Iboga? Do you think this
plant has those properties with no meaning? Iboga is
the tree of life, every
single part of the plant has specific functions in
the body, it’s a holistic
therapy. As it is said in Africa, every bitter
médecine is a good médecine, every
sweet médecine is a poison. Scientists think you can
extract a single molecule
and get the active principle, and be more
efficient…Eating Iboga as it is
in its natural form is a proof of courage. If you
have this courage you’ve gone
half the way to overcome your problems. In a
symbolic way, you have to accept
the bitterness of life to really enjoy life.”

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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 25, 2004 at 5:30:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fakeplacebo, sorry it takes me so long to get back to ya, but I usually get on the ‘puter about 4 in the morning, do my thing and then get on with the day, so usually its the next day before I answer. Yea I love Priest. Goes back to the early 80’s when I was skinny enough to be a front man/lead singer. Everybody I knew then was in to Judas Priest seems like. I’m not gay but it used to piss me off to here the red necks talk down about gay guys and then go to the bar and scream out “lets hear some Priest” not knowing the singer was gay. What idiots! Rob could wail tho couldn’t he? If I could have screamed like him I’d probably still be fronting a metal band. I guess I just like stuff fast and loud.     ROCK                    Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:08:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie, it looks like all of those are quotes from
this list, it only means that it’s the opinion of the
person who wrote it. I think this was during a
discussion between some of the bwiti, laurent and
someone at phyto however it is spelled 😉 vegeteux?
I’m sorry if I spelled it wrong.

I think they’re all presented as interesting opinions,
not the one big truth. I’ve done the hcl but would
love to try the extract too.

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Howard,

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is there
no difference between the two?

cheers,
Julie

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’
in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is
this
true?

Julie,

Any statement on the Ibogaine Dossier indicating
such is obviously one
person’s opinion.  Can you provide the url where
that statement was found?
Obviously, ibogaine is also a way to go, as are
extracts and root bark.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 5:14:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is this
true?

In a message dated 9/24/04 3:03:23 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is there
no difference between the two?

Julie,

There are differences between ibogaine and iboga (Tabernanthe iboga).
Ibogaine is a purified alkaloid, one of many found in Tabernanthe iboga.  T. iboga
whether an extract or the bark of the root contains no less than twelve
alkaloids having various distinct effects and potencies as well as, in many cases, as
with ibogaine, forming metabolites that may have similar but distinct
actions.

Ibogaine is both faster acting and shorter acting than most extracts and
certainly faster and shorter acting than root bark if for no other reasons than
absorption. For instance, in my personal experience ibogaine is fully effective
within 1-1/2 hours and the dreamlike visualization lasts three to four hours.
Total alkaloids extracts I have used took two to four hours to become fully
effective and the dreamlike visualization phase lasted eight to twelve hours.
Certainly there are distinctions between the effects of the purified alkaloid
and the total plant product as twelve alkaloids and their metabolites will
produce more varied effects than a single alkaloid.  The product in my own
experience that I liked best was 85% – 90% ibogaine and the balance other iboga
alkaloids principally tabernanthine and ibogamine.  Other than a crude extract
that was 15% total alkaloids, the ibogaine extract of 85-90% was the least pure
ibogaine product I tried.  Had I had products that were 75% ibogaine I may have
liked them better.  I will not be able to comment however, as I never had the
opportunity.

I would be very interested to learn of the experiences of others.  Three
people could take the same product and have different effects and that is not just
ibogaine specific.

Whether you use root bark or ibogaine or total extracts you have to become
familiar with the substance you are using as is the practice in both shamanic
and western medicine including African practices.

The original quote is found below and you will notice that the author does
not say iboga, “in it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…”

Howard

“You think ibogaine is the only active product in Iboga? Do you think this
plant has those properties with no meaning? Iboga is the tree of life, every
single part of the plant has specific functions in the body, it’s a holistic
therapy. As it is said in Africa, every bitter médecine is a good médecine, every
sweet médecine is a poison. Scientists think you can extract a single molecule
and get the active principle, and be more efficient…Eating Iboga as it is
in its natural form is a proof of courage. If you have this courage you’ve gone
half the way to overcome your problems. In a symbolic way, you have to accept
the bitterness of life to really enjoy life.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 4:02:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is there
no difference between the two?

cheers,
Julie

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is
this
true?

Julie,

Any statement on the Ibogaine Dossier indicating
such is obviously one
person’s opinion.  Can you provide the url where
that statement was found?
Obviously, ibogaine is also a way to go, as are
extracts and root bark.

Thanks

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 3:20:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is this
true?

Julie,

Any statement on the Ibogaine Dossier indicating such is obviously one
person’s opinion.  Can you provide the url where that statement was found?
Obviously, ibogaine is also a way to go, as are extracts and root bark.

Thanks

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] nyc crystal forums
Date: September 24, 2004 at 3:03:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Attention: Sean, Preston —

From: danielhivforum@yahoo.com

September 21, 2004

Greetings! Now that autumn is here we would like to get on your calendars with a couple of important events we have planned for the coming months. SAVE THE DATES for the following:

October 16, 2004 Forum: Keep F&@King Safe

Produced in conjunction with NYU’s Gay Pride Month and moderated by John Cameron Mitchell, this forum will be an interactive town-hall meeting that will focus on issues facing gay men under 30 in the age of Internet hook ups, drug use and HIV. The forum will take place from 3-5 pm at NYU’s Kimmel Center located on the corner of West Fourth Street and LaGuardia Place. Seating priority will be given to gay men under age 30.

November 7, 2004 Larry Kramer Where Are We Now? Where Are We Going? Who “Is” We?

We are honored to accept Larry Kramer’s request to produce his first major address to the community since his Act-Up days. Cooper Union’s Great Hall will be the site for this major and historic address. John Cameron Mitchell will host and admission is free. Mr. Kramer’s speech will be followed by a 60-minute question and answer period. The evening begins at 7pm. This event is being made possible through grants from Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS and the Gill Foundation.

December 1, 2004 The Crystal Meth Working Group Launches a New Campaign

CMWG will launch its third anti-crystal awareness campaign working title Crystal Free and Sexy sending the message to gay men that one can be socially and sexually active without using crystal meth.

In addition, to our upcoming events, we wanted to make you aware of a recent New York Times article on crystal meth that highlighted our last forum and the work of the Crystal Meth Working Group. If you would like to read the article, it is available at the New York Times Website:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F4061EF93A5A0C7A8EDDA10894DC404482&incamp=archive:search

More details about these events and other important information can be found on our newly designed Website at www.hivforumnyc.org.

This fall, HIV Forum celebrates one year of public programming around important issues related to gay men’s health. Thank you for participating in our events, offering feedback and for joining us in expanding our message of health and vitality in the community.

Sincerely,
Dan Carlson                         Bruce Kellerhouse, Ph.D.
Co-Founder                         Co-Founder

PLEASE NOTE: This email is not intended to be spam. If you wish to be removed from this email list, then respond to this message with “remove” in the subject box and your name will be taken off the list promptly.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] way off topic! (hahaha!) Just what I always wanted! a deaf genie!
Date: September 24, 2004 at 2:59:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

deaf genie

A man walks into a bar with a paper bag. He sits down and
places the bag on the counter. The bartender walks up and
asks what’s in the bag.

The man reaches into the bag and pulls out a little man,
about one foot high and sets him on the counter. He reaches  back
into the bag and pulls out a small piano, setting it  on the counter
as well. He reaches into the bag once again  and pulls out a tiny
piano bench, which he places in front of the piano.  The little
man sits down at the piano and starts playing a   beautiful piece by
Mozart!

“Where on earth did you get that?” says the bartender.

The man responds by reaching into the paper bag. This time  he pulls
out a magic lamp. He hands it to the bartender and  says: “Here. Rub
it.”

So the bartender rubs the lamp, and suddenly there’s a gust
of smoke and a beautiful genie is standing before him.  “I will
grant you one wish.

Just one wish .. each person is only allowed one!”  The bartender
gets real excited. Without hesitating he says, “I want a million bucks!”

A few moments later, a duck walks into the bar. It is soon
followed by another duck, then another. Pretty soon, the  entire bar
is filled with ducks and they keep coming!

The bartender turns to the man and says, “Y’know, I think   your
genie’s a little deaf. I asked for a million bucks,   not a million ducks.”

“Tell me about it!!” says the man, “do you really think I  asked for
a 12 inch pianist?”

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:48:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

Having done a full dose of the HCL, and only small
amounts of iboga root bark, I am wondering: has anyone
noticed fundamental differences in the experiences?
Is it without question that HCL will produce a
stronger, more vibrant trip, or can iboga parallel the
HCL?

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is this
true?

I would be interested in talking to someone who has
done full therapeutic doses of both; someone who
wouldn’t mind comparing and contrasting the effects,
intensity and duration….

luv Julie  🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic- FBI (hahahahaha!!)
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:24:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was hilarious….

Julie
— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

Hello, is this the FBI?”

Yes. What can I do for  you?”

“Im calling to report about my neighbor Virgil
Smith.He is  hiding
marijuana inside his firewood!”

“Thank you very much for  the call, sir.”

The next day, the FBI agents descend on Virgil’s
house. They search
the shed where the firewood is kept. Using axes,
they bust open every
piece of wood, but find no marijuana. They sneer  at
Virgil and leave.

The phone rings at Virgil’s house. “Hey, Virgil!
This here is Floyd.
Did the FBI  come?”

“Yeah!”

“Did they chop your  firewood?”
“Yep.”

“Happy Birthday, buddy!

Who Says Rednecks Aren’t Real  Bright?

_______________________________
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Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:04:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you for THIS post, Sara.  It speaks volumes to me.  I had never stopped to think
about why I love listening to birds, dogs, wind, frogs, etc. until I read what you say here.
It is my therapy or one of my sources of joy.  Randy and I share this love of sound which
is a wonderful bond between us.  You have a gift of helping people focus on the obvious 🙂

best

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:18 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara

Dear Callie,

No hard feelings on this side. I would love to come, especially to swim with dolphins.
People are talking about therapy with sound and Mantras, I think that if people just listen to birds, cats . dogs , dolphins, wheals, wind and frogs, that
Would sound very much like a sound therapy.

I’m also a peyote grower and  would love to visit Native people on a Native Land.

Callie, thanks anyways for offering your apology.

With love,

Sara
Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 september 2004 6:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Sara

Sara, I think I owe you an apology and I am very embarrassed. I am so sorry if I hurt you or may have embarrassed you.
Like I said before, I have NEVER traveled outside the USA. I don’t think I truly can grasp how different Europe/Asia is. I also have not ever stopped to consider how people that have never been to USA perceive it.
I reread my replies to you and I feel I may sound pompous and arrogant. If you also think I was please forgive me. I do not want to be perceived that way because I am not. When I come across like that it is not my intention, it is my ignorance of lifestyles and feeling of those across the ocean.
If indeed you have not visited USA you should try to visit. I think you would love it.
Tennessee, where I have lived my entire life is charming and has beautiful landscapes. We have flatlands in the Memphis area. In Nashville (the city I live in) we have rolling green, grassy hills and beautiful trees such as, oak, maple, pine, fir, birch, dogwood and my favorite, weeping willows. In Knoxville and Chattanooga there are mountains.
The people here are for the most part courteous and very hospitable. Most native Tennesseeans work hard at being hospitable and we are known as the ‘Volunteer State’.
I LOVE living in the USA! I feel quite certain also that I would love to also live in Europe in my lifetime. It is probably just a dream I will carry to my grave. A girl can dream though, can’t she!
Again, so sorry for my assumptions. I hope you will forgive me.
Peace, Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic- FBI (hahahahaha!!)
Date: September 24, 2004 at 8:25:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, that was the coolest post I have seen in a long time. I’m gonna repeat the hell out of that.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad just some
Date: September 24, 2004 at 8:09:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I personally never said all, underline all, dealers were “bad” just the ones who prey on addicts. And I mean prey on them. Hell a lot of the sprung dealers that I knew were pretty good guys. They were addicted too so they never fucked me around like the ones who weren’t hooked. They would even front me ’cause they knew I wasn’t going to screw up any connection to the dope and they wanted to keep my business man ’cause I had a pretty good job most of the time. As for smoke and shrooms and shit like that if they would just legalize ’em there wouldn’t be any problem now would there? There used to be some honor among dealers but crack screwed that up in my opinion. And I realize  that my opinion don’t mean shit but there you have it. We joke, we smoke, get used to it. (new slogan for pot head comedians).                            Randy

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 24, 2004 at 5:20:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey BiscuitBoy,

Judas Priest is not a rarely known band but I always love Robe’s sound very much so it’s suprized me that you mentioned about Priest. Do you like Judas??

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no wait a minute thats Judas Priest), for that release party. I’m gonna’ be treated with Ibogaine on Oct. 1 or 2. Do you think I’ll be able to drive by then? Its probably about 90 miles from here to the city. And where the hell can I park? I’ve never been to the city, I think I’ll take the Amtrak in from Albany or Hudson. Anyway I’d like to be there. You have done a lot of good work for this project. I don’t post, but I read the Drug War list on my Moms outlook express thing. I think we all should support artists as much as we can. God knows nobody gets paid enough until they are huge and then they don’t need it. Thanx to you guys who paved the way for me any what looks like soon to be many others to get treatment where we can afford it. You guys and girls, ROCK. Now I’m gonna’ have Livin’ after Midnight playing in my head all day. As George Clinton (my favorite Clinton by the way) would say, “Free your mind and your ass will follow.”                Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 24, 2004 at 5:13:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no wait a minute thats Judas Priest), for that release party. I’m gonna’ be treated with Ibogaine on Oct. 1 or 2. Do you think I’ll be able to drive by then? Its probably about 90 miles from here to the city. And where the hell can I park? I’ve never been to the city, I think I’ll take the Amtrak in from Albany or Hudson. Anyway I’d like to be there. You have done a lot of good work for this project. I don’t post, but I read the Drug War list on my Moms outlook express thing. I think we all should support artists as much as we can. God knows nobody gets paid enough until they are huge and then they don’t need it. Thanx to you guys who paved the way for me any what looks like soon to be many others to get treatment where we can afford it. You guys and girls, ROCK. Now I’m gonna’ have Livin’ after Midnight playing in my head all day. As George Clinton (my favorite Clinton by the way) would say, “Free your mind and your ass will follow.”                Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- beads
Date: September 24, 2004 at 4:34:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, ya know I hadn’t really looked at the act of using beads although its talked about in the info. I kind of skipped over that. And although I’m not Catholic I have always admired the Rosary beads that they use. I’m going to check into Tachyon beads and see what they will do for me. I think that some of the psychosomatic symptoms that I display (I don’t know ’bout yall) will have to be addressed using any and all alternative methods available. Thanx for pointing this out.            Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 3:32:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tell me Sara,(mmmm turnedback to black now)do you think it makes much of a difference
whether you are on 35mg(7ml) or 55mg(11ml) when you have the Ibogaine?
smiles Jasen
(I dont know what is going on,it keeps changing colours?)

Hi Jasen,

Here is the same, it was dark and raining few minutes ago , now it is blue and sunny,
The answer is No, it doesn’t really matter, what is matter is how a person feels during and after.
One will feel it hard to come off 10mg and the other will feel that’s the easiest detox. ever when they are on 100mg.
how many times a person went through drug withdrawals in their lives, how old they are, what pain level which they can handle?
I don’t think that you need to reduce the Methadone, unless you like to.

With love,

Sara

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 2:53:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara

Thank you Jasen! that叚 very kind of you, I 径 sure my kids would love that too,
when the animal have it good the people will follow.
I hope that the Australian forests are recovering from the fires,
Do you think those fires are  due to Global warming?
Remember Jasen, you are welcome here too.

Enjoy!

Sara
*I think most of the bush fires here are started by pyromaniacs
Yes, I will definatley be comming,I am just waiting,
I Said (mmm thats weird my writing just turned blue) 4 weeks, about 3 weeks ago
however I was a couple of weeks out.I hope to be booking a flight in the next 2 to 3 weeks.

The clinic here knows nothing about Ibogaine and think I should reduce slowly,
however that has not worked for me,so Ibogaine here I come.
I am so looking forward to it.I understand I should not be to hopeful and set my self up for
a big downer,however whatever happens happens,it will be an experience.

I sincerley believe that I have been recieving help spiritualy since the passing of my beautful
brother,best friend and confidant.

Hey,…my beliefs work for me,if I didnot have strong faith in what I believe in,I would have
gone home a long time ago.

Tell me Sara,(mmmm turned back to black now)do you think it makes much of a difference
whether you are on 35mg(7ml) or 55mg(11ml) when you have the Ibogaine?
smiles Jasen
(I dont know what is going on,it keeps changing colours?)

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 2:28:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Jasen! that’s very kind of you, I ‘m sure my kids would love that too,
when the animal have it good the people will follow.
I hope that the Australian forests are recovering from the fires,
Do you think those fires are  due to Global warming?
Remember Jasen, you are welcome here too.

Enjoy!

Sara

Van: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 september 2004 7:35
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara

Dear Sara,
Come to the land of OZ,you can kiss all the koala’s you want
and would also be very welcomed here as well.
Smiles Jasen

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 1:34:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara,
Come to the land of OZ,you can kiss all the koala’s you want
and would also be very welcomed here as well.
Smiles Jasen

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 1:18:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Callie,

No hard feelings on this side. I would love to come, especially to swim with dolphins.
People are talking about therapy with sound and Mantras, I think that if people just listen to birds, cats . dogs , dolphins, wheals, wind and frogs, that
Would sound very much like a sound therapy.

I’m also a peyote grower and  would love to visit Native people on a Native Land.

Callie, thanks anyways for offering your apology.

With love,

Sara
Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 september 2004 6:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Sara

Sara, I think I owe you an apology and I am very embarrassed. I am so sorry if I hurt you or may have embarrassed you.
Like I said before, I have NEVER traveled outside the USA. I don’t think I truly can grasp how different Europe/Asia is. I also have not ever stopped to consider how people that have never been to USA perceive it.
I reread my replies to you and I feel I may sound pompous and arrogant. If you also think I was please forgive me. I do not want to be perceived that way because I am not. When I come across like that it is not my intention, it is my ignorance of lifestyles and feeling of those across the ocean.
If indeed you have not visited USA you should try to visit. I think you would love it.
Tennessee, where I have lived my entire life is charming and has beautiful landscapes. We have flatlands in the Memphis area. In Nashville (the city I live in) we have rolling green, grassy hills and beautiful trees such as, oak, maple, pine, fir, birch, dogwood and my favorite, weeping willows. In Knoxville and Chattanooga there are mountains.
The people here are for the most part courteous and very hospitable. Most native Tennesseeans work hard at being hospitable and we are known as the ‘Volunteer State’.
I LOVE living in the USA! I feel quite certain also that I would love to also live in Europe in my lifetime. It is probably just a dream I will carry to my grave. A girl can dream though, can’t she!
Again, so sorry for my assumptions. I hope you will forgive me.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 12:28:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I think I owe you an apology and I am very embarrassed. I am so sorry if I hurt you or may have embarrassed you.
Like I said before, I have NEVER traveled outside the USA. I don’t think I truly can grasp how different Europe/Asia is. I also have not ever stopped to consider how people that have never been to USA perceive it.
I reread my replies to you and I feel I may sound pompous and arrogant. If you also think I was please forgive me. I do not want to be perceived that way because I am not. When I come across like that it is not my intention, it is my ignorance of lifestyles and feeling of those across the ocean.
If indeed you have not visited USA you should try to visit. I think you would love it.
Tennessee, where I have lived my entire life is charming and has beautiful landscapes. We have flatlands in the Memphis area. In Nashville (the city I live in) we have rolling green, grassy hills and beautiful trees such as, oak, maple, pine, fir, birch, dogwood and my favorite, weeping willows. In Knoxville and Chattanooga there are mountains.
The people here are for the most part courteous and very hospitable. Most native Tennesseeans work hard at being hospitable and we are known as the ‘Volunteer State’.
I LOVE living in the USA! I feel quite certain also that I would love to also live in Europe in my lifetime. It is probably just a dream I will carry to my grave. A girl can dream though, can’t she!
Again, so sorry for my assumptions. I hope you will forgive me.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic- FBI (hahahahaha!!)
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:54:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, is this the FBI?”

Yes. What can I do for you?”

“Im calling to report about my neighbor Virgil Smith.He is hiding
marijuana inside his firewood!”

“Thank you very much for the call, sir.”

The next day, the FBI agents descend on Virgil’s house. They search
the shed where the firewood is kept. Using axes, they bust open every
piece of wood, but find no marijuana. They sneer at Virgil and leave.

The phone rings at Virgil’s house. “Hey, Virgil! This here is Floyd.
Did the FBI come?”

“Yeah!”

“Did they chop your firewood?”
“Yep.”

“Happy Birthday, buddy!

Who Says Rednecks Aren’t Real Bright?

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Man Who Was Shot Had Legal Marijuana
Date: September 23, 2004 at 10:14:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “doug” <doug@voterpower.org>
To: <doug@voterpower.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: Man Who Was Shot Had Legal Marijuana

The story below is a tragic example of why we need secure dispensaries,
why it’s so important for Measure 33 to pass in Oregon.
Doug

————

Pubdate: 23 Sep 2004
Webpage:

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/metro_east_news/109594071789031.xml?oregonian?en
Source: The Oregonian
Author: Stuart Tomlinson
Copyright: © 2004 OregonLive.com.

Man who was shot had legal marijuana

Police are investigating the incident where two or more suspects wounded
a Southeast Portland man

A Southeast Portland man who was shot and wounded Monday morning by at
least two men was apparently targeted for his medical marijuana, police
said Wednesday.

Sgt. Brian Schmautz, spokesman for the Portland Police Bureau, said the
33-year-old victim, who lives in the 13000 block of Southeast Tessa
Street, is one of more than 10,000 Oregonians enrolled in the Oregon
Medical Marijuana Program. Schmautz said the man had a legal marijuana
growing operation at his home.

The man was shot in the abdomen, Schmautz said. Police said the man
asked them not to name the hospital where he’s being treated.

“He’s talking with detectives, but doesn’t want to release any details
about his condition,” Schmautz said.

Police have no suspects in custody and aren’t sure whether two or more
men tried to enter the victim’s house.

“We do know it was more than one,” he said.

The shooting occurred just before 9:30 a.m. Witnesses told police they
heard screaming and the pops of about three gunshots before someone
yelled, “Why are you doing this?”

Someone saw a young man in a black coat sprinting from the area, and
police later found a black coat and a red coat in an alley off Division
Street.

Schmautz said the shooting occurred in the doorway of the victim’s
residence; the men never got inside, and nothing was taken.

According to the Oregon Department of Human Services Web site, the No. 1
reason patients gave for asking for medical marijuana was for pain,
followed by persistent muscle spasms, and nausea. As of July, 10,196
patients were enrolled in the program.

Under Oregon law, those enrolled in the program can possess “three
mature marijuana plants, four immature marijuana plants and one ounce of
usable marijuana per each mature plant” in their homes.

Anyone with any information on the shooting is asked to call Detective
Cordes Towle of the Portland Police Bureau at 503-823-0464.

Stuart Tomlinson: 503-294-5940; stuarttomlinson@news.oregonian.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..Nick
Date: September 23, 2004 at 9:39:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would have to agree with Julie.
Jasen
Nick,

I’m glad that you have found a foolproof method of
getting through tough times- a lot of us, however,
have not, and thus seeking and exploring new or
alternative medicines/pathways would seem a necessary
step in our own personal evolution and development.
For me, being addicted to junk was like being a record
stuck in a groove, skipping repeatedly, producing
nothing and going nowhere.  What helped me,
personally, to move beyond this, was a mixture of more
positive ‘alternative’ lifestyle and personal
self-exploration.

I think we might be forgetting something- what works
for one person might not work for another.  Life is so
subjective that it’s simply not wise to dismiss
everything ‘spiritual’ cuz you might not have had a
good experience with it.  One (wo)man’s treasure is
another’s refuse…One (wo)man’s strength is another’s
Achilles heel.  I say- whatever works, GO WITH IT!!

regards,
Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] way, way way ot..about flicks on tv and chanting
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:53:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No it did not. In the end Nicholson almost kills him  while Quaid runs but
they stop him and take him. Sort of, We had some cool times, showed you a
little life, but life goes on anyway.<

I saw all the way up to where they were arriving at the prison, but then
walked away, hoping against hope that somehow, right at the last second, the
chanting actually got him freed.
Alas, I take it no?
But yes, twas a good movie. I’ve seen photos of Nicholson in that swabby hat
before, but never the film.
I also finally sat all the way through Dog Day  Afternoon yesterday. That
was a great flick too.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re:
[ibogaine] Welco…

Hey Preston. No it did not. In the end Nicholson almost kills him  while
Quaid runs but they stop him and take him. Sort of, We had some cool times,
showed you a little life, but life goes on anyway. Good movie too.

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:45:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

only a movie? Whatchoo talkin’ bout Willis?
Tweren’t realife?
Hmmmm.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marcus” <aktionman@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine]
Welcome to Mary….was good book

On 9/23/2004, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Has anyone else seen The Last Detail? I watched it yesterday on the
boobtube
but missed the very end so I don’t know Randy Quaid’s
chanting kept him out of the military stockade or not.
Please help clue me in, someone, anyone. Did his chanting work in the
end or not?

doodhh……..it’zohhnly a movie. who cares if it worked in a moowvie!
but…….if it werkz fer real………sign meeyup!

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 23, 2004 at 2:03:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
(i forgot the name(s)
> of the Mexico ones…)
>

Rosarita, Mexico, isn’t it???

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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– Medically supervised treatment with the Ibogaine Association near San Diego in Rosarito, Mexico. Licensed facility. Basic treatment is four or five days long and costs $3300. Extended treatment for methadone patients is 6 days long and costs $4500. Visit www.ibogaine-therapy.net for further details IBOGAINE’S LEGAL STATUS IN MEXICO IS “UNLICENSED EXPERIMENTAL MEDICATION”
I think there is another one too, but I can’t find the letter, I’ll look around.
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 1:57:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Umm, “good”/”bad” is pretty subjective and perhaps over simplistic.  Without writing several pages, I’ll just say the line that “seperates” “good” from “bad” is in every heart, it’s the placement of the “line” that seems to effect whether we over demonize or make ’em into saints.

Bottom line is, everyone’s got to eat, so I suppose everyone is parasitic to a point, but some appear to have redeaming qualities that can make balance that out a bit.

Re: tv or BP (brain pacifier) had a decent show on PBS about secular and non-secular points of view, mainly through the eyes of Frued and Lewis, not bad I guess.  I wasn’t aware that Frued died from on purpose opiate overdose.
After thinking about the question of ‘higher power’ I seem to be rooted in the beleif that their is no question that their are many powers in nature that are much much larger then I am.  What I don’t believe is that this force is somehow working for ‘good’, be that the good of all people or is somehow working for me, that seems to be control junkies trying to control the uncontrolable.  It is what it is.  How can it not = chaos?

Re: therapy, if it leads to positive action then it is worthwhile, if it doesn’t, then it is a waste of time.  This has been my expereince, esp. w/ sound, but remember I know nothing.

Preston, good to see your book will get read, I’d like to see the t-shirt, retail activism indeed.

Mark, that post was awesome.

Sean, keep strong.

Re: Laws in America.  Umm…if they don’t enforce it why give our goverment the option to enforce it if they want to?  Does freedom = having bad laws but not enforcing them?  sounds a little silly to me.

Hypothetically speaking of course, if someone had experience to offer, I wonder if they would feel comfortable sharing that here.  Who knows. “a good aftercare suggestion” lol riiight ;  pro’s and con’s of being hypnotized by “ibo pimps” and political lobbyz
“Stepping off the hamster wheel at the moment” can sound like a reasonable idea

rewind vox dogma

Just the thoughts of another ibo treated rat.

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Preston,

Bartenders aren’t ‘bad’- they’ll cut you off if they
see you’re in no shape to be drinking more.
Personally, I think crack and dope dealers are the
worst, but even then, there might be exceptions.

Dealers aren’t BAD, per se- they’re just parasitic.
Especially the kind who KNOW you’re trying to kick,
yet call you anyways, cuz they’re “in the
neighbourhood.” Do you know how hard it can be to say
NO to H on day 3 of withdrawal? Oh wait, you probably
do…. 🙂

That being said, I had ONE semi-noble junk dealer back
in the day, who wouldn’t answer my pages during my
detox, and who even got me a couple oxys and valiums
for my kick-kit. The only reason he did this, though,
was cuz my boyfriend at the time threatened to kick
his ass if he caught him selling me dope…

Someone else here said something that holds true: if
the dealer is a user him/herself, they are generally
cooler people, cuz they know the deal. The dope
dealers in Toronto, for the most one, are NOT
junk-fiends, just money-hungry hogs or 18-21 year old
Asian/Latino gangbangas. My regular supplier of
weed/E/other pharmis is a cool guy(he’s older) and a
pretty close friend, who has even offered to be a
silent partner in several business ventures.

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:58:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(i forgot the name(s)
of the Mexico ones…)

Rosarita, Mexico, isn’t it???

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welco…
Date: September 23, 2004 at 1:26:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston. No it did not. In the end Nicholson almost kills him  while Quaid runs but they stop him and take him. Sort of, We had some cool times, showed you a little life, but life goes on anyway. Good movie too.

Julian

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:42:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Bartenders aren’t ‘bad’- they’ll cut you off if they
see you’re in no shape to be drinking more.
Personally, I think crack and dope dealers are the
worst, but even then, there might be exceptions.

Dealers aren’t BAD, per se- they’re just parasitic.
Especially the kind who KNOW you’re trying to kick,
yet call you anyways, cuz they’re “in the
neighbourhood.”  Do you know how hard it can be to say
NO to H on day 3 of withdrawal?  Oh wait, you probably
do….  🙂

That being said, I had ONE semi-noble junk dealer back
in the day, who wouldn’t answer my pages during my
detox, and who even got me a couple oxys and valiums
for my kick-kit.  The only reason he did this, though,
was cuz my boyfriend at the time threatened to kick
his ass if he caught him selling me dope…

Someone else here said something that holds true: if
the dealer is a user him/herself, they are generally
cooler people, cuz they know the deal.  The dope
dealers in Toronto, for the most one, are NOT
junk-fiends, just money-hungry hogs or 18-21 year old
Asian/Latino gangbangas.  My regular supplier of
weed/E/other pharmis is a cool guy(he’s older) and a
pretty close friend, who has even offered to be a
silent partner in several business ventures.

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:34:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im new to this list.. I have read  a lot of  the
experience that Iboga wields and  thought
it has tremendous psychotherapeutic  potential.
I would be willing to travel to places  overseas
to actually work with this entheogen..how  far
does one have to travel (from california) to  find
a workshop where it is legal with a  seasoned,trustworthy guide?

The closest treatment centres to you (that operate legally) would be in
Canada (Iboga Therapy House, Vancouver) and Mexico (i forgot the name(s)
of the Mexico ones…)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:20:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Something occured to me the other day.
Is it only dope dealers that some of you consider “bad” or is it all
dealers? Are alcohol dealers “bad” too? I mean, ’cause V is a dealer, a
bartender to be specific, and I happen to know she isn’t at all “bad”
unless
you mess with her- then she can be more than “bad” she can be downright
scary.

Even most dope dealers i encountered were really just victims of
prohibitionist policies themselves. I mean, sure, they were generally
pretty nasty people.. but they were kids brought up in the ghetto, without
any real hope of good education, a decent job, etc. Because of
prohibition, they’re able to make an awful lot of money.. if you put
yourself in their position, and the choice is either work at mickey d’s
(if you’re lucky) and live in absolute squalor and poverty, or become a
dealer and make bank… well, i don’t think it takes much imagination to
see why dealing dope would seem like a reasonable decision, given the
choices…

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:22:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can you write how its supposed to sound?
Thanx
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.  I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed to sound  (917-385-8173)

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:20:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.  I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed to sound  (917-385-8173)

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:01:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/23/2004, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Has anyone else seen The Last Detail? I watched it yesterday on the boobtube
but missed the very end so I don’t know Randy Quaid’s
chanting kept him out of the military stockade or not.
Please help clue me in, someone, anyone. Did his chanting work in the
end or not?

doodhh……..it’zohhnly a movie. who cares if it worked in a moowvie!
but…….if it werkz fer real………sign meeyup!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:07:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Something occured to me the other day.
Is it only dope dealers that some of you consider “bad” or is it all
dealers? Are alcohol dealers “bad” too? I mean, ’cause V is a dealer, a
bartender to be specific, and I happen to know she isn’t at all “bad” unless
you mess with her- then she can be more than “bad” she can be downright
scary.
But seriously, I think it’s a major mistake for us to lump all dealers
into some catagory based on our experiences with mainly young,
not-so-risk-adverse hoody types, who these day are usually the main ones
willing to take the risk of dealing- but because they too are innundated
with the anti-drug propaganda, their opinions about junkies are colored, not
only by the desperation and filth they see on a daily basis on the part of
their customers. Yes, many of the street dealers I’ve dealt with in any
prohibitionist country suck bigtime, but not all of them did- and certainly
most “dealers” I know of many assorted drugs are fine upstanding people.
So I was just rethinking about this the other day, and wanted to voice
my continued opposition to labeling all dealers, even those slinging dope,
are slime.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 9:38:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anyone else seen The Last Detail? I watched it yesterday on the boobtube
(yeah, I know, why is my boobtube even on again? I apologize, but like most
any mind altering drug that I’ve found pleasure/pinrelief/distraction/wasted
time on/beennumbedby/etc, it called me back and I came, kicking and
screaming the entire time but finally relenting, but just a little, just one
hit, one minute, one drag, one pull, one hit, just one, I promise and I’ll
put it back down), but missed the very end so I don’t know Randy Quaid’s
chanting kept him out of the military stockade or not.
Please help clue me in, someone, anyone. Did his chanting work in the
end or not?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept
before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is
supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.
I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and
rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that
the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you
find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels
good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do
let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed
to sound  (917-385-8173)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 23, 2004 at 9:18:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can see why you were scared.  They would scare me too.<

In lots and lots and lots of regards, Sara is totally correct in that the US
treats all incoming foreigners now as potential terrorists no matter if it’s
justified in the slightest or not. (I may be overstating the case, but I
don’t think so.) Now it turns out that Sara isn’t alone in fearing travel
in(to) the US. We ourselves have more and more to fear from the nanny state
traveling inSIDE the US.
(So, I post the following excerpts, even though they are pretty off topic
here- the first is about our own domestic travel troubles, and then those
for foreigner visitors to the US.)
—-

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/9737763.htm?1c

snip-

I draw the line at letting the folks in Washington, D.C., know what I eat.
Not only is it none of their business: The chances are huge that whatever it
tells them will be used wrongly.
This is no idle dessert banter. The Transportation Security Administration
announced Wednesday that it would require every domestic airline to turn
over records of passengers they carried in June. The idea is to test a new
system to identify suspected terrorists.
The records include name, address, telephone number, the names of others
traveling in the same party, the method of payment, and yes — meal
preference.
Order a low-salt kosher meal on the flight from San Jose to Atlanta last
June? Drink a daiquiri on the way to Los Angeles? Get ready for those facts
to find a permanent home in Attorney General John Ashcroft’s cookie jar.
Never mind that this sounds suspiciously like a failed government project,
called CAPPS 2, which would have identified not only potential “no fly”
terrorists but people wanted on warrants for violent crime.
Never mind that these are the kind of passenger records that caused a hue
and cry a couple of years ago when Delta Air Lines voluntarily shared them
with the government.
Nope, it’s now official policy: The government is demanding the records. The
airlines are turning them over. And the rest of us have to take it, much
like we have to content ourselves with a granola bar on certain flights.
The shame of it is that it isn’t going to get us any closer to the
terrorists.
snip-
—-
http://immigration.about.com/library/weekly/aa042602a.htm
snip-
Let’s look at some of the most important legislative and policy changes that
are underway or already realized. Some were a direct result of post-9/11
concerns, while others have simply been influenced by them:
New policy for foreign students and visitors: some seven months after 9/11,
the INS issued a new rule pertaining to foreign students who want to study
in the U.S., to travelers who visit for either pleasure or business, and to
persons ordered deported. Effective upon publication in the Federal
Register, the proposal calls for:
-Students to have a confirmation of acceptance from a U.S. school before
they enter the country. Students to no longer be allowed to apply to a
school if they’re already in the U.S., and instead must return to their home
countries to do so.
-Tourists and business travelers to be limited to a 30 day stay in the U.S.,
or to the amount of time definitively required to complete their trip. The
maximum extended stay to go from one year to six months with extensions
given only under very specific, limited conditions.
-Persons ordered deported or removed from the U.S. to surrender within 30
days or forfeit all rights to appeal and asylum.

245(i), which allows certain illegal aliens to adjust their status to that
of permanent resident if they had a sponsor, was temporarily revived last
year and an extension seemed likely this year. Congress passed the border
security bill which included this amendment, but the Senate recently removed
the amendment and the prospects don’t look good, though the details are not
final as of this writing. (This was incorrectly referred to as amnesty by
some politicians and media. Amnesty refers to a blanket pardon of illegal
immigrant status.*)

Border Security Plan for U.S.-Mexico: on his recent trip to Mexico and other
Latin-American countries, President Bush announced his new border security
plan that would expedite traffic and goods and weed out terrorists, drug
dealers and so-called coyotes, immigrant smugglers. For people crossing the
border daily to go to work, this can be a hassle. Similar actions have been
taken at the American-Canadian border, where the number of Border Patrol
agents has been increased and National Guard troops have been dispatched for
support. One major aspect of border control includes national guards along
the border.

Police in Florida were given the right to detain people for immigration
violations. In the past, only federal agents could do so. Florida was set as
the “test” state, with plans for other states to follow its lead.

*Amnesty for illegal Mexicans: this issue was seriously discussed between
President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox last September, before
9/11. Amnesty offers forgiveness to certain groups of illegal immigrants,
allowing them to adjust status to that of permanent resident, without
penalty. The most recent amnesty was to be for Mexicans, which did spark
some anger among other immigrants groups. Also discussed were certain
working visa programs for unskilled Mexican workers. Unfortunately for the
many illegal Mexicans in this country, this issue has been put on the
backburner, overshadowed by the 9/11 events and replaced with the
above-mentioned talks about heightened border security. Many Mexicans are
angry, and blame Islamic extremists for their troubles.

International tracking systems using means of identification such as
national i.d. cards and even fingerprints are being recommended and
reviewed. In the future, it may be impossible to fake your identity or your
immigration status.

The visa waiver program allows nationals from some countries to enter the
U.S. for a limited time without having to obtain a visa. Due to a illegal
immigration problems, Argentina was removed from participation. Other
countries may also be excluded. Though not directly related to 9/11, a
general crack down may have influenced the decision.

Automatic revalidation for some third country nationals was canceled. For
years, persons in legal visitor status to the U.S. could visit Canada,
Mexico or approved adjacent islands for up to 30 days and then return to the
U.S. using their existing I-94. Now, persons from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya,
Sudan, North Korea and Cuba may not be automatically revalidated. Nor can
those who apply for a new visa while abroad. The latter may cause problems
for many innocent people who apply for a change of status and simply want to
cross the border to pick it up, rather than having to return home to a
distant and expensive-to-get-to land.

No more J-visa waiver for physicians: Foreign students who come to the U.S.
for medical training are required to go back to their home countries for 2
years before they can return to the U.S. The J waiver program for physicians
made it possible for them to stay if they would agree to work in medically
underserved areas, obtain such an offer and got appropriate government
sponsorship. The plug was pulled on this program in February, 2002. Although
this affects a very small niche of immigrants, the timing is suspicious and
its impact could be devastating for areas with a shortage of medical
treatment, and for the physicians aspiring to immigrate.

Perhaps the biggest change yet is the dismantling of the Immigration and
Naturalization Service. Yes, the INS as we knew it for many years, is no
more. First, the House Judiciary Committee voted 32-2 to recommend a bill
that would put an end to the INS. The bill proposed that the 69 year old
agency be replaced with a new Agency for Immigration Affairs under the
Department of Justice, headed by an Associate Attorney General for
Immigration Affairs. Two new bureaus would be established: The new Bureau of
Immigration Services and Adjudications would take over all immigration
applications/processing and status/record keeping functions. The Bureau of
Immigration Enforcement would handle control and prosecution of immigration
violations and legal matters. The bill also provides for funding, better
organization and means for handling refugee emergencies. It was passed by a
405-9 vote by the House of Representatives on 04/25/02.

Tying the changes together
The nationwide effort to gain more control over immigration includes
heightened border security, new restrictions on certain visa categories and
on visitors, and the abolishment of the INS. For people entering the U.S. it
means more scrutiny with more questions being asked about their motives to
come here. Stricter controls of passengers and their luggage on airports are
already in place, and will probably be part of air travel for a long time.
Big-brother-like scenarios may become a reality.
snip-
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Sara,

Yea, they are old laws still on the books.  But they are no longer enforced.
You said your were wrong about the laws in FL.  No big deal, you live in
another country, how are you to know which are enforced and which are not.
All the laws that you sent are no longer enforced.  I can see why you were
scared.  They would scare me too.

But you got friends on the forum that will help you out.  Like Callie said
you can do it without fear of arrest.   If you have any questions you can
write to any of us, we will all be glad to help you.  I think you would like
Ft. Lauderdale and Hollywood Beach (they are right next to each other) and
you would like the Keys, Key Largo is my favorite.  Key West is a strange
place but pretty safe and there is a lot to do.  Try VERY hard to keep out
of Miami, the crime rate is high.  And they prey on tourists (try to rob
them because they know they will not come back for the trial and they will
have to let them go).  You will LOVE the nice clear water, wear sun screen,
you can get a bad sun burn and not know it until it is too late. However, at
this time of year it is not too bad.

Have Fun,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Jim, maybe I was wrong about FL. but hey look starge thing are happening
everywhere,who thought about this?

No man is allowed to make love to his wife with the smell of garlic, onions,
or sardines on his breath in Alexandria, Minnesota. If his wife so requests,
law mandates that he must brush his teeth.
Warn your hubby that after lovemaking in Ames, Iowa, he isn’t allowed to
take more than three gulps of beer while lying in bed with you-or holding
you in his arms.
Bozeman, Montana, has a law that bans all sexual activity between members of
the opposite sex in the front yard of a home after sundown-if they’re nude.
(Apparently, if you wear socks, you’re safe from the law!)
During lunch breaks in Carlsbad, New Mexico no couple should engage in a
sexual act while parked in their vehicle, unless their car has curtains.
In Cleveland, Ohio women are not allowed to wear patent-leather shoes.
Clinton, Oklahoma has a law against masturbating while watching two people
having sex in a car.
It’s safe to make love while parked in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Police officers
aren’t allowed to walk up and knock on the window. Any suspicious officer
who thinks that sex is taking place must drive up from behind, honk his horn
three times and wait approximately two minutes before getting out of his car
to investigate. [Hmmm… okay, there’s one place with a law that makes
sense… -psl]
In Connorsville, Wisconsin no man shall shoot off a gun while his female
partner is having a sexual orgasm.
In Detroit, couples are not allowed to make love in an automobile unless the
act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
A law in Fairbanks, Alaska does not allow moose to have sex on city streets.
In Florida it is illegal for single, divorced, or widowed women to parachute
on Sunday afternoons.
In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania it is illegal to have sex with a truck driver
inside a toll booth.
The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each
guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are
married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they
are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.
Another law in Helena, Montana, mandates that a woman can’t dance on a table
in a saloon or bar unless she has on at least three pounds, two ounces of
clothing.
A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master,
not mister, when addressed by their female counterparts.
An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. “No female shall
appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be
escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club”.
The following important amendment however is to be considered here: “The
provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90
pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses.”
In Kingsville, Texas there is a law against two pigs having sex on the
city’s airport property.
Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn
during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty
Corner, New Jersey law.
In Los Angeles, California, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with
a leather belt or strap, but the belt can’t be wider than 2 inches, unless
he has his wife’s consent to beat her with a wider strap. Consent should be
given prior to the event, as is carefully stipulated. [Not to be confused
with the myth about “rule of thumb”‘s origin -psl]
In Maryville, Missouri, women are prohibited from wearing corsets because
“The privilege of admiring the curvaceous, unencumbered body of a young
woman should not be denied to the normal, red-blooded American male.”
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s
permission.
In Nevada sex without a condom is considered illegal.
An ordinance in Newcastle, Wyoming, specifically bans couples from having
sex while standing inside a store’s walk-in meat freezer!
In Norfolk, Virginia, a woman can’t go out without wearing a corset. (There
was a civil-service job-for men only-called a corset inspector.)
In Oblong, Illinois, it’s punishable by law to make love while hunting or
fishing on your wedding day.
In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while
standing in front of a man’s picture.
In hotels in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, every room is required to have twin
beds. And the beds must always be a minimum of two feet apart when a couple
rents a room for only one night. And it’s illegal to make love on the floor
between the beds!
A Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man
while riding in an ambulance. In addition to normal charges, the woman’s
name will be published in the local newspaper. The man does not receive any
punishment.
Utah state legislation outlaws all sex with anyone but your spouse. Next to
that adultery, oral and anal sex, masturbation are considered sodomy and can
lead to imprisonment. Sex with an animal – unless performed for profit –
however is NOT considered sodomy. Polygamy – provided only the missionary
position has been applied – is only a misdemeanor.
In Ventura County, California cats and dogs are not allowed to have sex
without a permit.
The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the
missionary-style position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.
In Willowdale, Oregon no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In the state of Washington there is a law against having sex with a virgin
under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night).
—anon—
And in a similar manner:
1. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the
animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is
punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

2. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is
prohibited from looking directly at them during theexamination. He may only
see their reflection in a mirror.

3. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also
applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with
a brick or piece of wood at all times.

4. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

5. There are men in Guam whose full-time job is to travel the countryside
and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for
the first time… Reason: under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for
virgins to marry. (Let’s just think for a m! inute; is there any job
anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)

6. In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous
husband, but may only do so with her bare hands.!!  The husband’s lover, on
the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. (Ah! Justice!)

7. Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England – but only in tropical
fish stores. (But of course!)

8. In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the
first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act.
(Makes one shudder at the thought.)

9. In Santa Cruz, Bolivia, it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman
and her daughter at the same time. (I presume this was a big enough Problem
that they had to pass this law?)

10. In Maryland, it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with
one exception: prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only
“in places where alcoholic bev! erages are sold for consumption on the
premises.”

?
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Van: Jim Hadey [mailto:jimhadey3@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 2:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of
anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I
doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws
still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still
on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they
are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and
Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many
people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing
your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida
you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because
of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may
have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you
private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or
whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.
If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I
strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from
Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can! get shot for nothing.  There
are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and ! killers that are VERY
violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys
will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun
of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.
Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car
jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about
seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely
to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out
for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one
joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY
heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL.
You can be arrested just for that.
I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken
to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a
foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight
screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we
can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because
we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:16:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary,

Who is there to deal with it but itself? I just put it out. What does it matter? There’s nothing wrong with the ego. Ego is great! Who is there to deal with it? Your question makes no sense to me. Sorry!

with love

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Maryditton@aol.com [mailto:Maryditton@aol.com]
Sent: 23 September 2004 04:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Hey Nick,
How do you deal with your own ego.  Would you mind sharing?
Peace,
Mary

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..Nick
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:14:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 22 September 2004 19:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do
sessions..Nick

Nick,

I’m glad that you have found a foolproof method of
getting through tough times- a lot of us, however,
have not, and thus seeking and exploring new or
alternative medicines/pathways would seem a necessary
step in our own personal evolution and development.
For me, being addicted to junk was like being a record
stuck in a groove, skipping repeatedly, producing
nothing and going nowhere.  What helped me,
personally, to move beyond this, was a mixture of more
positive ‘alternative’ lifestyle and personal
self-exploration.

I think we might be forgetting something- what works
for one person might not work for another.  Life is so
subjective that it’s simply not wise to dismiss
everything ‘spiritual’ cuz you might not have had a
good experience with it.  One (wo)man’s treasure is
another’s refuse…One (wo)man’s strength is another’s
Achilles heel.  I say- whatever works, GO WITH IT!!

regards,
Julie

Hi Ms Iboga,

I have no problem with anyone following as many spiritual paths as they
like. Therapy neither. I’ve done plenty. If you need spirituality to move
you from drugs, that’s totally fine with me. If you’re drawn to something
you should trust that. I’m merely pointing out that, at the end of the day,
you are going to have to move to a place where you accept yourself utterly
and totally in the moment with no provisos, or the need to follow any paths,
with no pretensions or labels to hide beneath. Whilst spiritual practice and
belief is often a part of the drive towards individuation, this is merely a
temporary thing. And what starts as a needed venture in one’s life often
becomes simply a massive re-identification, with the ego taking on all sorts
of foolish roles as “spirit guide” or “spiritual master.” This stuff is
nonsense and I will take the opportunity to confront it, if I feel someone’s
ready to be confronted. To allow yourself to “become” a spiritualist is to
utterly MISS the astounding reality of who you actually are! It is to
overlook of enormity of just what is. Use it while you need it and keep
checking in.

with love

Nick

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 September 2004 05:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal
screamers do sessions..

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see
people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge,
semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset
me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that
stage already?

Oh, I’ve been a devotee of plenty of spiritual
foolishness in my time! How
else to get to see through it? Basically, most
spiritual ideas I’ve ever
known or followed revolved around two key concepts:

1) some things are more sacred than others
2) there is a pathway to liberation

Both are utter nonsense, but you usually have to
travel the pathways a bit
to see they actually lead nowhere (and not even
there!)

with love

Nick

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 12:28:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.  I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed to sound  (917-385-8173)

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 23, 2004 at 12:11:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oops Nick,
I just read your post to me so chuck out the question about your ego – I take it you don’t have the limited sense of self.  I haven’t quite digested your post but there are some beauties in there ESPECIALLY if you are doing life better with all that realization.  As for me, I’d like to know how these insights change what your life is about – that would help!
Peace,
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 11:11:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick,
How do you deal with your own ego.  Would you mind sharing?
Peace,
Mary

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: September 22, 2004 at 10:33:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou m,
Nice to know how things are progressing.
Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello

hey all. been a bit out of the loop on list and its probably way to late to try and catch up but I wanted to say a quick hello.
Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the funniest part is I don’t care. Wait… I should probably explain. I got into dope pretty young and my life was unmanageable almost immediately. I was homeless on the streets of the lower east side by the time I was 17 years old. I remember always wishing that I could do dope successfully which I interpreted at the time to mean that I could hold down a job and function enough to shoot dope the way I wanted to.
Then  I got on methadone for the second time at 20 and in a pretty short period of time I was able to go back and finish school and get a good job and still fuck around more often than not, and of course lie to everyone I got close to. Surprisingly enough, after close to 10 years of getting what I wished for, the whole thing was a big let down and left me almost suicidal.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is I’ve been on both ends but the past 5 years I have been okay financially. I mean my credit is for shit and I owe the IRS a ton and I wasn’t exactly saving, but cash on hand was never a problem.
Since my session two months ago I have come home to lose my job, face eviction if I don’t move by next week, no money at all after not being paid in two months, and whats amazing is I’m still the happiest I think I’ve ever been. I really feel now that all of this that is happening is supposed to happen. A brand new beginning and not nearly the way I could have ever imagined it being. But I hated my life, so to turn around and watch it burn is in a strange way, no matter how uncomfortable it might be sometimes, the best thing that ever could have happened.
My cell phone was shut off today which sucks,  but I start a new job (temporary till I get out of NY) on Monday and it’ll be on soon enough. It bothers me how dependent I am on it but I feel so disconnected without it.
I’d better go but thanks to all on the list. It made my journey so much easier knowing that there were all these wonderful people from all over keeping a good thought.
And its so exciting to watch  this list evolve the way it has in the past 4 months.

Spending the night out of the city so I will be in touch with anyone who I usually call.
Love -M.
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 9:49:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

Yea, they are old laws still on the books.  But they are no longer enforced.  You said your were wrong about the laws in FL.  No big deal, you live in another country, how are you to know which are enforced and which are not.  All the laws that you sent are no longer enforced.  I can see why you were scared.  They would scare me too.

But you got friends on the forum that will help you out.  Like Callie said you can do it without fear of arrest.   If you have any questions you can write to any of us, we will all be glad to help you.  I think you would like Ft. Lauderdale and Hollywood Beach (they are right next to each other) and you would like the Keys, Key Largo is my favorite.  Key West is a strange place but pretty safe and there is a lot to do.  Try VERY hard to keep out of Miami, the crime rate is high.  And they prey on tourists (try to rob them because they know they will not come back for the trial and they will have to let them go).  You will LOVE the nice clear water, wear sun screen, you can get a bad sun burn and not know it until it is too late. However, at this time of year it is not too bad.

Have Fun,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Jim, maybe I was wrong about FL. but hey look starge thing are happening everywhere,who thought about this?
No man is allowed to make love to his wife with the smell of garlic, onions, or sardines on his breath in Alexandria, Minnesota. If his wife so requests, law mandates that he must brush his teeth.
Warn your hubby that after lovemaking in Ames, Iowa, he isn’t allowed to take more than three gulps of beer while lying in bed with you-or holding you in his arms.
Bozeman, Montana, has a law that bans all sexual activity between members of the opposite sex in the front yard of a home after sundown-if they’re nude. (Apparently, if you wear socks, you’re safe from the law!)
During lunch breaks in Carlsbad, New Mexico no couple should engage in a sexual act while parked in their vehicle, unless their car has curtains.
In Cleveland, Ohio women are not allowed to wear patent-leather shoes.
Clinton, Oklahoma has a law against masturbating while watching two people having sex in a car.
It’s safe to make love while parked in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Police officers aren’t allowed to walk up and knock on the window. Any suspicious officer who thinks that sex is taking place must drive up from behind, honk his horn three times and wait approximately two minutes before getting out of his car to investigate. [Hmmm… okay, there’s one place with a law that makes sense… -psl]
In Connorsville, Wisconsin no man shall shoot off a gun while his female partner is having a sexual orgasm.
In Detroit, couples are not allowed to make love in an automobile unless the act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
A law in Fairbanks, Alaska does not allow moose to have sex on city streets.
In Florida it is illegal for single, divorced, or widowed women to parachute on Sunday afternoons.
In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania it is illegal to have sex with a truck driver inside a toll booth.
The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.
Another law in Helena, Montana, mandates that a woman can’t dance on a table in a saloon or bar unless she has on at least three pounds, two ounces of clothing.
A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master, not mister, when addressed by their female counterparts.
An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. “No female shall appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club”.
The following important amendment however is to be considered here: “The provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90 pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses.”
In Kingsville, Texas there is a law against two pigs having sex on the city’s airport property.
Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty Corner, New Jersey law.
In Los Angeles, California, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with a leather belt or strap, but the belt can’t be wider than 2 inches, unless he has his wife’s consent to beat her with a wider strap. Consent should be given prior to the event, as is carefully stipulated. [Not to be confused with the myth about “rule of thumb”‘s origin -psl]
In Maryville, Missouri, women are prohibited from wearing corsets because “The privilege of admiring the curvaceous, unencumbered body of a young woman should not be denied to the normal, red-blooded American male.”
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.
In Nevada sex without a condom is considered illegal.
An ordinance in Newcastle, Wyoming, specifically bans couples from having sex while standing inside a store’s walk-in meat freezer!
In Norfolk, Virginia, a woman can’t go out without wearing a corset. (There was a civil-service job-for men only-called a corset inspector.)
In Oblong, Illinois, it’s punishable by law to make love while hunting or fishing on your wedding day.
In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man’s picture.
In hotels in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, every room is required to have twin beds. And the beds must always be a minimum of two feet apart when a couple rents a room for only one night. And it’s illegal to make love on the floor between the beds!
A Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man while riding in an ambulance. In addition to normal charges, the woman’s name will be published in the local newspaper. The man does not receive any punishment.
Utah state legislation outlaws all sex with anyone but your spouse. Next to that adultery, oral and anal sex, masturbation are considered sodomy and can lead to imprisonment. Sex with an animal – unless performed for profit – however is NOT considered sodomy. Polygamy – provided only the missionary position has been applied – is only a misdemeanor.
In Ventura County, California cats and dogs are not allowed to have sex without a permit.
The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the missionary-style position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.
In Willowdale, Oregon no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In the state of Washington there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night).
—anon—
And in a similar manner:
1. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

2. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is prohibited from looking directly at them during theexamination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

3. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with a brick or piece of wood at all times.

4. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

5. There are men in Guam whose full-time job is to travel the countryside and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for the first time… Reason: under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for virgins to marry. (Let’s just think for a minute; is there any job anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)

6. In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands.!!  The husband’s lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. (Ah! Justice!)

7. Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England – but only in tropical fish stores. (But of course!)

8. In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act. (Makes one shudder at the thought.)

9. In Santa Cruz, Bolivia, it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman and her daughter at the same time. (I presume this was a big enough Problem that they had to pass this law?)

10. In Maryland, it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with one exception: prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only “in places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises.”

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Van: Jim Hadey [mailto:jimhadey3@yahoo.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 2:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.  There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and ! killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:55:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known
it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the
funniest part is I don’t care.<

As long as yer happy Mark.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello

hey all. been a bit out of the loop on list and its probably way to late to
try and catch up but I wanted to say a quick hello.
Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known
it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the
funniest part is I don’t care. Wait… I should probably explain. I got into
dope pretty young and my life was unmanageable almost immediately. I was
homeless on the streets of the lower east side by the time I was 17 years
old. I remember always wishing that I could do dope successfully which I
interpreted at the time to mean that I could hold down a job and function
enough to shoot dope the way I wanted to.
Then  I got on methadone for the second time at 20 and in a pretty short
period of time I was able to go back and finish school and get a good job
and still fuck around more often than not, and of course lie to everyone I
got close to. Surprisingly enough, after close to 10 years of getting what I
wished for, the whole thing was a big let down and left me almost suicidal.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is I’ve been on both ends but the past 5 years I
have been okay financially. I mean my credit is for shit and I owe the IRS a
ton and I wasn’t exactly saving, but cash on hand was never a problem.
Since my session two months ago I have come home to lose my job, face
eviction if I don’t move by next week, no money at all after not being paid
in two months, and whats amazing is I’m still the happiest I think I’ve ever
been. I really feel now that all of this that is happening is supposed to
happen. A brand new beginning and not nearly the way I could have ever
imagined it being. But I hated my life, so to turn around and watch it burn
is in a strange way, no matter how uncomfortable it might be sometimes, the
best thing that ever could have happened.
My cell phone was shut off today which sucks,  but I start a new job
(temporary till I get out of NY) on Monday and it’ll be on soon enough. It
bothers me how dependent I am on it but I feel so disconnected without it.
I’d better go but thanks to all on the list. It made my journey so much
easier knowing that there were all these wonderful people from all over
keeping a good thought.
And its so exciting to watch  this list evolve the way it has in the past 4
months.

Spending the night out of the city so I will be in touch with anyone who I
usually call.
Love -M.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
remainder snipped

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara…
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:58:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Derr…mine just said Sara Glatt, not her email address….then I realised
that’s coz I already have it….

Bloody short-term memory!

Thanks Howard 🙂
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara…

In a message dated 9/22/04 4:49:07 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

What’s your email address Sara?

Hi Hannah,

You can see everyone’s email address on the posts they make to the list.
Just open up anyone’s post and look at the address box at the top of the
email.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] private emails ending up on the list- apologies
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:42:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/22/04 5:14:57 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

First, apologies for my private email ending up on the
list- I certainly didn’t intend it to.  Embarassing,
to say the least.

Hi Julie,

I can’t tell personal email from that directed to this list.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:33:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey all. been a bit out of the loop on list and its probably way to late to try and catch up but I wanted to say a quick hello.
Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the funniest part is I don’t care. Wait… I should probably explain. I got into dope pretty young and my life was unmanageable almost immediately. I was homeless on the streets of the lower east side by the time I was 17 years old. I remember always wishing that I could do dope successfully which I interpreted at the time to mean that I could hold down a job and function enough to shoot dope the way I wanted to.
Then  I got on methadone for the second time at 20 and in a pretty short period of time I was able to go back and finish school and get a good job and still fuck around more often than not, and of course lie to everyone I got close to. Surprisingly enough, after close to 10 years of getting what I wished for, the whole thing was a big let down and left me almost suicidal.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is I’ve been on both ends but the past 5 years I have been okay financially. I mean my credit is for shit and I owe the IRS a ton and I wasn’t exactly saving, but cash on hand was never a problem.
Since my session two months ago I have come home to lose my job, face eviction if I don’t move by next week, no money at all after not being paid in two months, and whats amazing is I’m still the happiest I think I’ve ever been. I really feel now that all of this that is happening is supposed to happen. A brand new beginning and not nearly the way I could have ever imagined it being. But I hated my life, so to turn around and watch it burn is in a strange way, no matter how uncomfortable it might be sometimes, the best thing that ever could have happened.
My cell phone was shut off today which sucks,  but I start a new job (temporary till I get out of NY) on Monday and it’ll be on soon enough. It bothers me how dependent I am on it but I feel so disconnected without it.
I’d better go but thanks to all on the list. It made my journey so much easier knowing that there were all these wonderful people from all over keeping a good thought.
And its so exciting to watch  this list evolve the way it has in the past 4 months.

Spending the night out of the city so I will be in touch with anyone who I usually call.
Love -M.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

> Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
remainder snipped

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] private emails ending up on the list- apologies
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:29:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know how it happen Julie unless you hit reply.
Don’t be embarrassed, it happens to a lot of us.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara…
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:03:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/22/04 4:49:07 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

What’s your email address Sara?

Hi Hannah,

You can see everyone’s email address on the posts they make to the list.
Just open up anyone’s post and look at the address box at the top of the email.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] private emails ending up on the list- apologies
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:12:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

First, apologies for my private email ending up on the
list- I certainly didn’t intend it to.  Embarassing,
to say the least.

Second: Why did it happen?  I addressed it to one
email box ONLY, not to ibogaine@mindvox….

Once again, sorry,

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 6:11:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh yeah, and thanks Hannah and Sara.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
remainder snipped

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 6:09:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mouth wash with warm water and sea-salt will give you a quick recovery.<

Yeah, I have been. Definitely, but alas….
Please, all, no need to flood the list with more advice for tooth problems,
as I am pretty sure I have just about every treatment now ever thought of
for teeth rattling around in my head.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] under the influence

anyone know where exactly Eire is?

Ireland.

I’m with you on your tooth ache, I had them also pulled out,

Mouth wash with warm water and sea-salt will give you a quick recovery.

Be well,

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:55:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Hi all,
So. I picked up a few copied of Under the Influence- the
Disinformation
Guide to Drugs, in which a couple of our DrugWar subscribers are published
and just have to say, I’m very excited, thrilled, and awed at just how
freakin’ cool this book is, if I don’t say so myself about a project I put
so much sweat, tears, pain and blood into.
It’s very cool looking, thick and heavy, 360 odd pages chock full of
the
most amazing articles ever complied between two cove…um, well, it’s got
some really amazingly informative and cool articles, how’s that?
Virgin Megastores asked Disinfo if they could print up on staff
t-shirts
for all their big-city stores (like NYC, Miami, Chicago, LA and SF, etc.-
sans anyone’s name, including mine, darn it), so their staffs will be
wearing shirts with the Virgin logo on the shoulder, “staff” along the
sleeve, and “Under the Influence” across their chests with the outta focus
Disinfo Devilhead logo which graves the cover of the book (which I must
say
looks really amazingly cool- yeah, My adjectives are not so inspired
today,
I admit) as well. This is about the coolest thing I’ve heard yet, other
than
for the fact that UTI is being released simultaneously in Great Britain,
Canada, and the US (as well as Eire, listed along with the GB
distribution-
anyone know where exactly Eire is? Isn’t it an island of sorts off the
coast
of Enland or something?).
If you live anywhere near the NYC area, we’re throwing a release party
on Oct. 21 (subscriber and contributor Jules Siegel’s b-day too btw, so be
sure to remember to wish him many happy more please, even though the bum
won’t be shelling out hard earned bread to buy a plane ticket to fly to
NYC
for the night- I know, the gall of it, but what can I do? I’m poor so
won’t
be buying him a ticket- so if anyone wants to contribute to the cause,
write
“Jules” in “Mexico” and see what happens.) I’d love to see as many of you
here in NYC as possible, so start your plans today. I’ll have more
definite
info soon- think “sex, drugs and rock n’ roll” type party, with go-go
dancers and dj’s and contributors and fun all present and accounted for.
Anyway, as you notice, I’m both excited and delirious, still battling
never-ending wars on…I mean, tooth problems, with a dry socket forming
where the wisdom tooth was yanked last week, necessitating lots of dru..I
mean, a visit to the dentist yet AGAIN today to get it packed with
medication. Dry Sockets SUCK major big time, if anyone here hasn’t yet had
the dubious pleasure of experiencing one. Don’t is my advice- it’s an
experience I’d like to say I’d gone to my grave never experiencing but
this
is time two for me, so I guess that’s out.
Hope everyone is having as warm and pleasant a day as a bunch of my
friends probably are.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara…
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:53:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What’s your email address Sara?  I’d like to find out how much it would cost to be treated by you?  Actually I think you told me before and I’ve just forgot!  I’m in the UK.

LOL Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Hanna,

Sorry for this mistake, I got the info. wrong, but not completely there are some very strange laws, I was just wondering if it is serious or just a joke.

It is good that my name isn’t “ISLAM”.;-)

It is illegal to kiss in public, in a sacred place like a church.but I guess Christ wouldn’t mind.

forget it,

Sara
Van: Hannah Clay [mailto:hannah.clay@ntlworld.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 22:27
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

“And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that”

What’s this Sara?  Can you explain please?  I can’t believe its illegal to kiss in public somewhere, well anywhere!

Lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:17:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

anyone know where exactly Eire is?

Ireland.

I’m with you on your tooth ache, I had them also pulled out,

Mouth wash with warm water and sea-salt will give you a quick recovery.

Be well,

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:09:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hanna,

Sorry for this mistake, I got the info. wrong, but not completely there are some very strange laws, I was just wondering if it is serious or just a joke.

It is good that my name isn’t “ISLAM”.;-)

It is illegal to kiss in public, in a sacred place like a church.but I guess Christ wouldn’t mind.

forget it,

Sara
Van: Hannah Clay [mailto:hannah.clay@ntlworld.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 22:27
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

“And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that”

What’s this Sara?  Can you explain please?  I can’t believe its illegal to kiss in public somewhere, well anywhere!

Lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:49:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
So. I picked up a few copied of Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs, in which a couple of our DrugWar subscribers are published
and just have to say, I’m very excited, thrilled, and awed at just how
freakin’ cool this book is, if I don’t say so myself about a project I put
so much sweat, tears, pain and blood into.
It’s very cool looking, thick and heavy, 360 odd pages chock full of the
most amazing articles ever complied between two cove…um, well, it’s got
some really amazingly informative and cool articles, how’s that?
Virgin Megastores asked Disinfo if they could print up on staff t-shirts
for all their big-city stores (like NYC, Miami, Chicago, LA and SF, etc.-
sans anyone’s name, including mine, darn it), so their staffs will be
wearing shirts with the Virgin logo on the shoulder, “staff” along the
sleeve, and “Under the Influence” across their chests with the outta focus
Disinfo Devilhead logo which graves the cover of the book (which I must say
looks really amazingly cool- yeah, My adjectives are not so inspired today,
I admit) as well. This is about the coolest thing I’ve heard yet, other than
for the fact that UTI is being released simultaneously in Great Britain,
Canada, and the US (as well as Eire, listed along with the GB distribution-
anyone know where exactly Eire is? Isn’t it an island of sorts off the coast
of Enland or something?).
If you live anywhere near the NYC area, we’re throwing a release party
on Oct. 21 (subscriber and contributor Jules Siegel’s b-day too btw, so be
sure to remember to wish him many happy more please, even though the bum
won’t be shelling out hard earned bread to buy a plane ticket to fly to NYC
for the night- I know, the gall of it, but what can I do? I’m poor so won’t
be buying him a ticket- so if anyone wants to contribute to the cause, write
“Jules” in “Mexico” and see what happens.) I’d love to see as many of you
here in NYC as possible, so start your plans today. I’ll have more definite
info soon- think “sex, drugs and rock n’ roll” type party, with go-go
dancers and dj’s and contributors and fun all present and accounted for.
Anyway, as you notice, I’m both excited and delirious, still battling
never-ending wars on…I mean, tooth problems, with a dry socket forming
where the wisdom tooth was yanked last week, necessitating lots of dru..I
mean, a visit to the dentist yet AGAIN today to get it packed with
medication. Dry Sockets SUCK major big time, if anyone here hasn’t yet had
the dubious pleasure of experiencing one. Don’t is my advice- it’s an
experience I’d like to say I’d gone to my grave never experiencing but this
is time two for me, so I guess that’s out.
Hope everyone is having as warm and pleasant a day as a bunch of my
friends probably are.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:27:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that”

What’s this Sara?  Can you explain please?  I can’t believe its illegal to kiss in public somewhere, well anywhere!

Lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..Nick
Date: September 22, 2004 at 2:43:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,

I’m glad that you have found a foolproof method of
getting through tough times- a lot of us, however,
have not, and thus seeking and exploring new or
alternative medicines/pathways would seem a necessary
step in our own personal evolution and development.
For me, being addicted to junk was like being a record
stuck in a groove, skipping repeatedly, producing
nothing and going nowhere.  What helped me,
personally, to move beyond this, was a mixture of more
positive ‘alternative’ lifestyle and personal
self-exploration.

I think we might be forgetting something- what works
for one person might not work for another.  Life is so
subjective that it’s simply not wise to dismiss
everything ‘spiritual’ cuz you might not have had a
good experience with it.  One (wo)man’s treasure is
another’s refuse…One (wo)man’s strength is another’s
Achilles heel.  I say- whatever works, GO WITH IT!!

regards,
Julie

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 September 2004 05:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal
screamers do sessions..

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see
people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge,
semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset
me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that
stage already?

Oh, I’ve been a devotee of plenty of spiritual
foolishness in my time! How
else to get to see through it? Basically, most
spiritual ideas I’ve ever
known or followed revolved around two key concepts:

1) some things are more sacred than others
2) there is a pathway to liberation

Both are utter nonsense, but you usually have to
travel the pathways a bit
to see they actually lead nowhere (and not even
there!)

with love

Nick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 22, 2004 at 2:19:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 September 2004 05:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that stage already?

Oh, I’ve been a devotee of plenty of spiritual foolishness in my time! How
else to get to see through it? Basically, most spiritual ideas I’ve ever
known or followed revolved around two key concepts:

1) some things are more sacred than others
2) there is a pathway to liberation

Both are utter nonsense, but you usually have to travel the pathways a bit
to see they actually lead nowhere (and not even there!)

with love

Nick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 2:16:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

OK, then for sure, chant away. Personally, I think Tachyon beads are great for speeding up the body’s own repair processes.

with love

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 22 September 2004 12:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Nick, I appreciate what you are saying but I think you have mistaken my reason for seeking this out. I have a broken bone in my wrist that will not heal (left navicular) and back problems that I am being treated with Methadone for pain for. Yea I used both situations to get drugs but I still will have pain that I have to deal with like every one else after the drugs are gone. I’m looking for rational alternatives to help deal with real pain issues. I agree with you about ego and self. My ego has been my down fall quite often. Most of the time. Hell every time I have real problems ego rules me into idiocy. I try to be self aware and rational i.e.. RBT, RET sometimes it works. I still go through periods of cognitive dissonance. I am hoping Ibogaine will put some clarity to my self talks. Let me know whats real and whats important.             Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off List
Date: September 22, 2004 at 1:28:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gonna miss you Lee! Hope things settle down for you!
Hugs!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 1:26:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, Those are GREAT! Thanks!
Callie

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:38:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

I actually don’t know too much about it, but how about
this:  I’ll email you a music therapist’s email
address, and you can contact her directly.

luv Julie

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Julie, just got back on line this morn’ again. I am
very interested in what
you are talking about with music therapy. I’ve been
a musician since I was a
kid. Got in my first paying band when I was 12. Did
it for a living for a while.
Music is the only thing I can truly lose myself in
and forget about problems
for a while. Of course back in the day it was just
another way to get high and
manipulate people. I’ve worked thru all of that now.
I just play and enjoy
it. Money or no money. Tell me more. I’ll be
checking this out on my own too. I
realize that what you are talking about is different
from performing and
creating. Its still music tho right? Are there
certain notes for certain organs or
problem area’s? I’ll be checking back. I’m pretty
busy today.
Randy

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Nick
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:36:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Nick,

Most entrainment therapy I have read about is NOT for
emotional or psychological woes; it is for cancerous
tumorous, or physical organ disorders.  Usually, in
these cases, the EGO is NOT involved.

From what I have seen, music therapy is only
therapeutical and beneficial for the short time spent
in the practitioners office/work space; it’s effects
are not like Ibogaine- it may not last for a month,
even a week, for that matter.

Julie
— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun
[mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 22 September 2004 02:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing
through sound/frequency-
Randy

Yes please I am very interested in more info.
Thankyou.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through
sound/frequency- Randy

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by
a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the
theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a
healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be
translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it
vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly
“off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ
can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed,
by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it
for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished
with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by
blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I
know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to
believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music
therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I
could
ask her for more info.

Yes, I’ve just learned about this great healing
technique and it’s just
going to take all my problems away! I would invite
anyone reading to see
just how easily they give their power away by
believing in this stuff. I
have nothing against sound therapy, it’s fine, but
to commence from the
position “There is something wrong with me and I
need healing” is to
precisely hijack any healing process. All that can
happen from following the
technique is a change in belief to “There is nothing
wrong with me.” That is
the best possible outcome.

It dialogues something like this, ego – self:

– “I just want something to take me away from
myself”
– “There isn’t anything, this is who you are, who
you always were and who
you always will be”
– “But I don’t want to accept that. I’m not
listening. I’ve got my fingers
in my ears. I need healing. I need healing”

The action of interrupting the ego’s desire for
healing and confronting it
with the truth that there is absolutely no
possibility of escape from itself
immediately begins to bring up all the feelings that
it has been
suppressing, the feelings that, were they felt,
would actually allow healing
to take place. But the ego is not ready to do this.
Rather than accept the
limitations of its existence it is condemned to
forever project the unwanted
feelings outwards and seek “healing” in some
technique or practice. It can’t
work, but the ego refuses to see this. Were it to
simply sit in the feelings
that are underneath the desire for healing then
liberation would take place.

The best “healing techniques,” from the ego’s point
of view, are those which
make it feel better temporarily, that give it a few
hours or days of clarity
or pain release. It then develops the belief that to
simply keep on
performing the practice will keep it in this
relatively pain free state or
somehow “reprogram it” to not feel the bad feelings
anymore. Pure bullshit,
of course, but the ego will believe anything rather
than believe it can’t
escape from itself.

with love

Nick

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mention of ibogaine on another list
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:19:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Climbingthegreatbluecliffs
Yesterday, 01:35 AM

Drug abuse, and addictive behaviors are definitely a problem.

ibogaine is a indole alkaloid isolated, most commonly, from the tabernanthe iboga shrub. Used ritually in Africa for religious purposes for an unknown amount of time, it has also found a place in psychotherapy and addiction treatment. Due to its hallucinogenic effects it is a schedule I substance in the USA. In the mid nineties trials were terminated, the subject of which was the use of ibogaine and its non-hallucinogenic analog 18-MC in the treatment of drug addiction. One might think this was because of its ineffectiveness, but countless reports of unprecedented success in treating all sorts of addiction, with just one application are available. Its easy to imagine what it, and/or 18-MC could add to a treatment program. The trials were terminated, it seems, chiefly because it was perpendicular to the status quo. Once you admit this hallucinogenic has psychotherapeutic value, you have to admit that the full range of them do. In fact LSD and psilocybin both were originally used in psychotherapy, and were popularized by Harvard University psychology teachers. Quickly they became a part of the counter culture, ‘expanding your mind’ was definitely bad for those benefiting from minds being just the way they are. In a now effective attempt at social engineering, following the court decision on the 1937 marihuana tax act, the CSA was passed, creating the present federal scheduling system.

In my opinion the government’s policy on illicit psychoactives is ripe with flaws, lies and half-truths. The scheduling of marijuana and most hallucinogenic as  schedule I, despite their medical value. In fact many of these scheduled substances should be all the way down to [url=] http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/la…5.shtml] schedule V://http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives…tml] schedule V. Check out the  ONDCP’s MJ fact sheet.
-cannaboids do not stimulate the production of dopamine (although the user might do so by their own perceptions)
-marijuana does not cause the heart rate to double, that is unless someone is robbing you at gun point
-marijuana stays in the system for up to 60 days. Is it any wonder it is ‘involved’ in traffic accidents?
-marijuana does not make you a delinquent, but many delinquents use marijuana
-not everyone who uses psychoactives (licit and illicit) needs treatment
Also look  here (check out numbers 4 and 8 at the bottom too).
The  DEA’s version is even betterŠ
-the amount of carcinogens used in their figures is often based off those in leaves vs. those in the female flowers, but irregardless making available vaporizers and cheap high quality marijuana would lessen the cancer causing potential
-its highly unlikely marijuana causes impaired brain or muscle function in adults.
-legalizing marijuana would allow the smoke to be filtered, thus reducing carcinogen/tar content
-people arrested for MJ use, or caught by ‘brainwashed’ parents who don’t actually have a drug problem contribute an enormous amount to the people receiving/who received treatment for MJ use.
-[url=http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/marijim.html] reviewing the t-cell claim[\url]
-marijuana ‘contributes’ to crime, if at all, because its illegal

But why all this? Its simple really, originally it was to galvanize support against the counter culture as earlier drug laws were designed to galvanize support for racism.

Marijuana presently is possibly much more dangerous than it would be if legal. Lack of standards and improper and dangerous techniques of production, drying and storage can produce everything from high concentrations of pesticides to mold and mildew with a variety of negative effects, all due almost entirely to the current policy of criminalization.

Ecstasy, cocaine and herion bought illegally have all sorts of dangerous. Varied and unknown quantities, dangerous adulterants and ignorance of the user produce most of them. Meth is in the same boat, but contains further risks from improper manufacture.

Criminalization provides a multi-billion dollar market for criminals (and potentially terrorists) to deal in. Money for guns, guns to get money. People end up dead, and you have a murder rate several times higher than most western and northern European nations. Another interesting side effect seems to be the call for gun control. Since there is no worry about communists stock piling arms anymore something else had to be though up.

With the prices found in the black market, its no wonder we experience approx 36 billion in drug related crime every year. That price tag comes with 40+ billion spent in enforcement annually.

Than there is prison overcrowding, and corruption, as went on in Mena, AR in the eighties and early nineties.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 10:58:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim, maybe I was wrong about FL. but hey look starge thing are happening everywhere,who thought about this?
No man is allowed to make love to his wife with the smell of garlic, onions, or sardines on his breath in Alexandria, Minnesota. If his wife so requests, law mandates that he must brush his teeth.
Warn your hubby that after lovemaking in Ames, Iowa, he isn’t allowed to take more than three gulps of beer while lying in bed with you-or holding you in his arms.
Bozeman, Montana, has a law that bans all sexual activity between members of the opposite sex in the front yard of a home after sundown-if they’re nude. (Apparently, if you wear socks, you’re safe from the law!)
During lunch breaks in Carlsbad, New Mexico no couple should engage in a sexual act while parked in their vehicle, unless their car has curtains.
In Cleveland, Ohio women are not allowed to wear patent-leather shoes.
Clinton, Oklahoma has a law against masturbating while watching two people having sex in a car.
It’s safe to make love while parked in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Police officers aren’t allowed to walk up and knock on the window. Any suspicious officer who thinks that sex is taking place must drive up from behind, honk his horn three times and wait approximately two minutes before getting out of his car to investigate. [Hmmm… okay, there’s one place with a law that makes sense… -psl]
In Connorsville, Wisconsin no man shall shoot off a gun while his female partner is having a sexual orgasm.
In Detroit, couples are not allowed to make love in an automobile unless the act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
A law in Fairbanks, Alaska does not allow moose to have sex on city streets.
In Florida it is illegal for single, divorced, or widowed women to parachute on Sunday afternoons.
In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania it is illegal to have sex with a truck driver inside a toll booth.
The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.
Another law in Helena, Montana, mandates that a woman can’t dance on a table in a saloon or bar unless she has on at least three pounds, two ounces of clothing.
A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master, not mister, when addressed by their female counterparts.
An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. “No female shall appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club”.
The following important amendment however is to be considered here: “The provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90 pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses.”
In Kingsville, Texas there is a law against two pigs having sex on the city’s airport property.
Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty Corner, New Jersey law.
In Los Angeles, California, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with a leather belt or strap, but the belt can’t be wider than 2 inches, unless he has his wife’s consent to beat her with a wider strap. Consent should be given prior to the event, as is carefully stipulated. [Not to be confused with the myth about “rule of thumb”‘s origin -psl]
In Maryville, Missouri, women are prohibited from wearing corsets because “The privilege of admiring the curvaceous, unencumbered body of a young woman should not be denied to the normal, red-blooded American male.”
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.
In Nevada sex without a condom is considered illegal.
An ordinance in Newcastle, Wyoming, specifically bans couples from having sex while standing inside a store’s walk-in meat freezer!
In Norfolk, Virginia, a woman can’t go out without wearing a corset. (There was a civil-service job-for men only-called a corset inspector.)
In Oblong, Illinois, it’s punishable by law to make love while hunting or fishing on your wedding day.
In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man’s picture.
In hotels in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, every room is required to have twin beds. And the beds must always be a minimum of two feet apart when a couple rents a room for only one night. And it’s illegal to make love on the floor between the beds!
A Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man while riding in an ambulance. In addition to normal charges, the woman’s name will be published in the local newspaper. The man does not receive any punishment.
Utah state legislation outlaws all sex with anyone but your spouse. Next to that adultery, oral and anal sex, masturbation are considered sodomy and can lead to imprisonment. Sex with an animal – unless performed for profit – however is NOT considered sodomy. Polygamy – provided only the missionary position has been applied – is only a misdemeanor.
In Ventura County, California cats and dogs are not allowed to have sex without a permit.
The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the missionary-style position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.
In Willowdale, Oregon no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In the state of Washington there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night).
—anon—
And in a similar manner:
1. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

2. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is prohibited from looking directly at them during theexamination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

3. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with a brick or piece of wood at all times.

4. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

5. There are men in Guam whose full-time job is to travel the countryside and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for the first time… Reason: under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for virgins to marry. (Let’s just think for a minute; is there any job anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)

6. In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands.!!  The husband’s lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. (Ah! Justice!)

7. Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England – but only in tropical fish stores. (But of course!)

8. In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act. (Makes one shudder at the thought.)

9. In Santa Cruz, Bolivia, it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman and her daughter at the same time. (I presume this was a big enough Problem that they had to pass this law?)

10. In Maryland, it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with one exception: prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only “in places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises.”

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Van: Jim Hadey [mailto:jimhadey3@yahoo.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 2:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.  There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and ! killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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vote.yahoo.com – Register online to vote today!

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Off List
Date: September 22, 2004 at 10:34:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Just to let you know I am going to stay off the list for a while. Too much excitement for me. Need to refocus a bit on other things.
If anyone (posting or not) wants to communicate with me I invite you to contact me off the list on my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk. You will find me open to discussing anything.
All the best.
Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: paul parisi <paulparisi@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:43:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

slowone@hush.ai wrote:

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg
>
>Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the
>group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump
>onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that stage already?

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hi, this is the first time i have written regarding ibogaine. I have been getting mail on the subject for a long time. I was heavily researchig it about a year ago while trying to recover from a herion/crack addiction. I have now been clean for about 10 months. thank GOD for bubrenorphine. Lifesaveing but almost as expensive as haveing a regular habit. Insurance does’nt cover it. 1000.00 a month. anyways, enough about all this garbage I dont know where you are from but, in connecticut I just cant find any groups or ibogaine anywhere. It isnt legal here yet. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that all does exsist  here but, secretly.
I truely feel through all my research that through ibogaine I wouldnt need my meds anymore. I would also give anything for the spirituality part that goes along with it. I have had some severe trauma as most of us have that I know could be healed. By the way you can call me jen I am 32 years old.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 7:54:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, I appreciate what you are saying but I think you have mistaken my reason for seeking this out. I have a broken bone in my wrist that will not heal (left navicular) and back problems that I am being treated with Methadone for pain for. Yea I used both situations to get drugs but I still will have pain that I have to deal with like every one else after the drugs are gone. I’m looking for rational alternatives to help deal with real pain issues. I agree with you about ego and self. My ego has been my down fall quite often. Most of the time. Hell every time I have real problems ego rules me into idiocy. I try to be self aware and rational i.e.. RBT, RET sometimes it works. I still go through periods of cognitive dissonance. I am hoping Ibogaine will put some clarity to my self talks. Let me know whats real and whats important.             Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 7:24:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, just got back on line this morn’ again. I am very interested in what you are talking about with music therapy. I’ve been a musician since I was a kid. Got in my first paying band when I was 12. Did it for a living for a while. Music is the only thing I can truly lose myself in and forget about problems for a while. Of course back in the day it was just another way to get high and manipulate people. I’ve worked thru all of that now. I just play and enjoy it. Money or no money. Tell me more. I’ll be checking this out on my own too. I realize that what you are talking about is different from performing and creating. Its still music tho right? Are there certain notes for certain organs or problem area’s? I’ll be checking back. I’m pretty busy today.                Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Use for non addiction interruption
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:52:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,

I hope nobody minds if I put forward an observation on ibogaine use. If I piss someone off for posting so much on these things please try and ignore and move on to the posts that do interest you. I just feel its important to get some more information out to put some things into perspectiv that I have already posted.

Taking into account the dangers associated with ibogaine use I would suggest for anyone considering using ibogaine for purely psycho spiritual use (who satisfies the safety protocol) and not for addiction interruption to begin at low doses.

The advantages I see in this are:

1. The body in my view acclimatises to the presence of ibogaine. Hence the repeated use at low doses allows the body to adjust to its presence and not go into major reaction when a large dose is introduced.

2. One gets a proper feel for ones one dose level if one considers undergoing a full session.

3. Low dose sessions can begin the ground work of cleansing the mind of a lot of garbage by releasing a lot of repressed material due to the tendency to repress thoughts, memories which in our daily life threaten us. Eg. when we see someone behave in a way that reveals their character in a way that reminds us of something that occured in the past we want to forget, we block out what we are seeing. A low dose session can open up that blockage

4. We can get some guidance/insight.

5. The safety factor is enhanced. I would not go for a dose greater than 6mg/Kg – perhaps a little less.

However some form of minimal interference guidance & support in the initial use is a good thing. It should never be taken alone.

By the way there is an interesting book which covers the area of low dose ibogaine therapy and its readable online:

The Secret Chief

Conversations with a pioneer of the underground psychedelic therapy movement
By Myron Stolaroff
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/sctoc.html

All the best to everyone.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:25:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
If I am reading you right what you are saying is that instead of accepting where we are at we can jump on the bandwagon of seeking healing and use that as a kind of anesthetic to our pain.
I would go along with that.
I did a lot of primal therapy – years – I was addicted. Yet when I stopped going to group and individual sessions my problems where still with me.
I think it kind of released a feel good factor after the session which I lived off.
On the positive side I think it did educate me a lot on interactions with others, process at work within myself etc.
Best to you,
Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
> Sent: 22 September 2004 02:45
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency-
> Randy
>
>
> Yes please I am very interested in more info. Thankyou.
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Ms Iboga”
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
>
>
> > Randy,
> >
> > There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
> > health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
> > process called Entrainment. Basically, the theory is
> > this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
> > vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
> > into a ‘pitch’.
> >
> > When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
> > gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
> > According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
> > be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
> > directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
> > long periods of time. This can be accomplished with
> > voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
> > pre-recorded tones.
> >
> > Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
> > it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch! I know it
> > sounds like complete and utter malarky or
> > pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
> > at least HOPE) that there was something to it.
> >
> > Julie 🙂 BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
> > who healed my friend. If anyone’s interested, I could
> > ask her for more info.
> >
> >
>

Yes, I’ve just learned about this great healing technique and it’s just
going to take all my problems away! I would invite anyone reading to see
just how easily they give their power away by believing in this stuff. I
have nothing against sound therapy, it’s fine, but to commence from the
position “There is something wrong with me and I need healing” is to
precisely hijack any healing process. All that can happen from following the
technique is a change in belief to “There is nothing wrong with me.” That is
the best possible outcome.

It dialogues something like this, ego – self:

– “I just want something to take me away from myself”
– “There isn’t anything, this is who you are, who you always were and who
you always will be”
– “But I don’t want to accept that. I’m not listening. I’ve got my fingers
in my ears. I need healing. I need healing”

The action of interrupting the ego’s desire for healing and confronting it
with the truth that there is absolutely no possibility of escape from itself
immediately begins to bring up all the feelings that it has been
suppressing, the feelings that, were they felt, would actually allow healing
to take place. But the ego is not ready to do this. Rather than accept the
limitations of its existence it is condemned to forever project the unwanted
feelings outwards and seek “healing” in some technique or practice. It can’t
work, but the ego refuses to see this. Were it to simply sit in the feelings
that are underneath the desire for healing then liberation would take place.

The best “healing techniques,” from the ego’s point of view, are those which
make it feel better temporarily, that give it a few hours or days of clarity
or pain release. It then develops the belief that to simply keep on
performing the practice will keep it in this relatively pain free state or
somehow “reprogram it” to not feel the bad feelings anymore. Pure bullshit,
of course, but the ego will believe anything rather than believe it can’t
escape from itself.

with love

Nick

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Administration of ibogaine – A Discussion
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:07:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,
I have the book. I am not sure what your point is. My only reason for putting forward these observations is for exploration. I am afraid to say I do not approach Eboga from the Bwiti standpoint. Which is not to say I discount it. I am simply taking it from my own personal experience. Clearly there are many aspects to Eboga and I doubt my take on it will agree on all points with theirs.
I will reread the chapter again and get back to you.
Thanks
Peace to you,
Lee

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Lee, have you read, “Breaking Open the head” by Daniel? It is illuminating to say the least and his first chapter is his recounting his Iboga experience. If you haven’t, please do yourself a favor and pick it up.

Regards,

Julian

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 3:28:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 22 September 2004 02:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency-
Randy

Yes please I am very interested in more info. Thankyou.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could
ask her for more info.

Yes, I’ve just learned about this great healing technique and it’s just
going to take all my problems away! I would invite anyone reading to see
just how easily they give their power away by believing in this stuff. I
have nothing against sound therapy, it’s fine, but to commence from the
position “There is something wrong with me and I need healing” is to
precisely hijack any healing process. All that can happen from following the
technique is a change in belief to “There is nothing wrong with me.” That is
the best possible outcome.

It dialogues something like this, ego – self:

– “I just want something to take me away from myself”
– “There isn’t anything, this is who you are, who you always were and who
you always will be”
– “But I don’t want to accept that. I’m not listening. I’ve got my fingers
in my ears. I need healing. I need healing”

The action of interrupting the ego’s desire for healing and confronting it
with the truth that there is absolutely no possibility of escape from itself
immediately begins to bring up all the feelings that it has been
suppressing, the feelings that, were they felt, would actually allow healing
to take place. But the ego is not ready to do this. Rather than accept the
limitations of its existence it is condemned to forever project the unwanted
feelings outwards and seek “healing” in some technique or practice. It can’t
work, but the ego refuses to see this. Were it to simply sit in the feelings
that are underneath the desire for healing then liberation would take place.

The best “healing techniques,” from the ego’s point of view, are those which
make it feel better temporarily, that give it a few hours or days of clarity
or pain release. It then develops the belief that to simply keep on
performing the practice will keep it in this relatively pain free state or
somehow “reprogram it” to not feel the bad feelings anymore. Pure bullshit,
of course, but the ego will believe anything rather than believe it can’t
escape from itself.

with love

Nick

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:32:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:37:26 -0700 CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

The president does not put anyone in prison. The judicial system
does  that.

The executive prioritizes who to catch, though 🙂

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:18:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that stage already?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:14:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:11:52 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

How can we move away from the mind when it is us?

Logically our minds are like accumulated bits of past tense which we
manipulate in the present. The present is like the head of each of the
trails that we are all tracking down. The trail gives us a framework
to interpret its leading edge. So the mind is always catching up (with
its load of equipment), which is just one of the activities taking place
in the present.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:04:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:12:19 -0700 CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

Draft and a turn in  Vietnam was mandatory unless
you did not pass physical exam for service or was a  Conscientious
Objector.

Or unless you joined the National Guard, which Bush did with the aid
of family connections, and apparently didn’t even do his duty there,
again with the help of family political connections.

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.

It seems to be commonly accepted.

Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted
coke or battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Good point, however some abstaining alcoholics are said to be “dry drunks,
” not having reformed their personalities. Bush’s grandiosity has been
taken as a symptom of this.

Mr.  Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is
above average intelligence.

He acts very confident, I’ll grant you, and is skilful at conveying this.
He is considered by both parties as being incurious about the world,
relying more on divine (gut) inspiration. Have you seen him in Fahrenheit
9/11, when he has been told that the 9/11 attacks have taken place?

If you want to find something that he has said of more than a sentence
or two that seems above average, we might have an interesting discussion
about it.

Other than disagreeing with you, it’s great to see how you are willing
to be balanced in your assessment of Bush. I enjoyed his anti-Israeli-
settlement position, which was brave and unusual for a US President –
to side with the more liberal Israelis against taking land from the
inhabitants of the West Bank. It seems to me that the last thing the
Israelis need is deep enmity on the part of those who will overwhelm
them with numbers in the end. Too bad Bush backed off that position,
so no hope of peace there.

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secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] general entrainment info
Date: September 21, 2004 at 11:45:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

Below is a link to a site containing general
entrainment information, in layman’s terms.  A good
introduction.  Some of the sound samples really suck,
though.
http://www.soundfeelings.com/products/alternative_medicine/music_therapy/entrainment.htm

I’ll try to find some more scientifically orientated
studies tomorrow.

Enjoy!

Have a good night,

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:48:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

I don’t want to babble about my personal life on the
list and hog space- I’ll send you a mail offlist.

I would like to say this, though: I think we
methadone-addicted need to educate our parents(that
is, if we WANT them to know), because YES- they are
spoon-fed an attitude/opinion towards methadone that
is completely biased and mostly fictional.  Methadone
saved my life- I could not get off junk; I tried
repeatedly and FAILED. Thank you, methadone for giving
me temporary clarity of thought and vision, though
synthetic to some degree.  I’m sure at least one or
two individuals, possibly more, might agree with me.
But then again, maybe not…:)

However, at the end of the day, we now have a
methadone addiction which needs to be contended with,
on top of getting our acts together and adjusting to
our lives post-opiates.  I think this is why our
parents might tend to view methadone a bit
ambiguously.  But this is only my situation..What’s
your story?  I think we might be surprised to find we
have certain parental similarities; or maybe I’m just
STONED or something…:)

Just a thought,

Julie

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

Julie, If I may ask, your dad is upset with you on
meth, is it what he has
been taught by the great propogandists in our media,
or is it just that you are
taking a drug, a medicine for something he believes
can be controlled with
will power? Though I no longer get the comments from
people anymore (I guess
after 23 years they are tired of harassing me) but
everyone in my family is
greatly disappointed that I have been taking
methadone. The problem though is their
knowledge and understanding of drugs, methadone and
addiction is so limited,
so inadequate that I almost can’t blame them for
their misguided energy. They
are ignorant due to grasping and believing the
propoganda and lies fed them by
those in power with a malignant agenda! As a matter
of fact, I stopped trying
to convince them of meth’s worth a long time ago and
just keep it to myself. I
guess what I want to know is will it be possible for
you to talk with your
Dad to educate him as to what you are doing with
meth and why? etc., etc.I hope
so.

Sincerely,

Julian

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:46:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Kinda funny, they won’t put you in a iboga detox place for $2000 to $10,000 and “fix” you
but they will gladly put in jail for $30,000 a year.  Do you know America put more of it’s population in jail than any other county?  Yep, more than Russia, Cuba, North Korea and Red China.  I would of been to Sara’s months ago but my Lear Jet is on the blink.  To make matters worse the guys I loaned my Yhatt to brought it back on empty.

Later,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim, I just sent you a letter about this privately. I can’t tell you how much I agree with you. Isn’t it interesting that virtually all therapy and treatment for addiction is very, very costly not available for most addicts that need it. And then you are told some arrogant, insensitive and superficial statement that your life is worth it and treatment won’t mean anything to you if it was free or cheap. If it costs an arm and a leg, you will place a higher value on it yourself! I can not tell you how fucked up I had to get unnecessarily so, because if I didn’t have the outrageously exhorbitant fee, I wasn’t worth treating.

I would never expect anyone to work for nothing Jim. But the drugs given us for addiction cost pennies…literally! It is their time we pay for and it is certainly worth alot but it says something very negative, very, well typical American Business Establishment mentality to say you care about people and wish to help them but only for a specific fee, nothing less, nothing negotiable!

This is why I respect you Sara so much. I know you do whatever you can to provide help for people. People as yourself and various underground treatments are the only things giving most of us some sense of hope and relief. Keep being the person you are.

Sincerely,

Julian
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:34:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, I just sent you a letter about this privately. I can’t tell you how much I agree with you. Isn’t it interesting that virtually all therapy and treatment for addiction is very, very costly not available for most addicts that need it. And then you are told some arrogant, insensitive and superficial statement that your life is worth it and treatment won’t mean anything to you if it was free or cheap. If it costs an arm and a leg, you will place a higher value on it yourself! I can not tell you how fucked up I had to get unnecessarily so, because if I didn’t have the outrageously exhorbitant fee, I wasn’t worth treating.

I would never expect anyone to work for nothing Jim. But the drugs given us for addiction cost pennies…literally! It is their time we pay for and it is certainly worth alot but it says something very negative, very, well typical American Business Establishment mentality to say you care about people and wish to help them but only for a specific fee, nothing less, nothing negotiable!

This is why I respect you Sara so much. I know you do whatever you can to provide help for people. People as yourself and various underground treatments are the only things giving most of us some sense of hope and relief. Keep being the person you are.

Sincerely,

Julian

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:33:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim,

I agree with you- South Florida has great spots, and
terrible spots.  I spent six months working as a
waitress in Key West, and that ROCKED!!  So many
chilled out, artist-type personalities, mingled with
tourists from all over the world.  There is a huge gay
community in Key West, and an active nightlife.

Look out for downtown Miami.  Pretty rough from what
I’ve seen.  South Beach is fun, but expensive, and a
trifle shallow.  There are some fun loungey places
that play cool music, there are also lame danceterias
packed with a huge consort of tanned,
silicone-implanted individuals; cool if that’s your
thing, never been mine.

I would recommend the Keys, South Beach for a weekend,
and possibly the Everglades- the hover boat ride was
AMAZING!

Cheers,
Julie

— Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid
state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail
for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I
doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.
There may be old laws still on the books, I even
wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on
the books.  Check out google and you will see some
silly laws and they are still on the books but not
enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New
York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a
lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people
make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be
afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either
of you have any questions about Florida you are
welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read
the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would
be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just
write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give
me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail
just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to
you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If
you want to mention it to each other after that, no
problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South
Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime
rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.
There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and
killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft.
Lauderdale is the same
thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and
rape you they will beat you half to death for the
fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are
wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part
of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car
jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I
lived in there for about seven or so years.    See,
they know your from out of town and are unlikely to
come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on
tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job
because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are
MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one
joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh,
BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central
Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or
gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just
for that.

I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and
women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist
just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through
a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do
become that frightened we can say the terrorists
have won. Things are watched more carefully because
we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as
far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those
untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:03:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi again Julian,

A friend of mine for 40+ years just died.  He spent 1/2 of his first two years of parole in them 90 day detox places.  They charge the state a lot of money for them and put maybe 6 in one bedroom (bunk beds).  It is all about money.

When people go on methadone they quit stealing, dealing, and selling themselves and other things that are not nice.  When people say look at all the money you spent on drugs,  now you don’t want to spend money to get clean, they are talking to a rich or well to do person or they don’t know what the hell they are talking about.

When you were a junkie how many people did you know that had over $100 on them, in the house or in the bank?  The only exception may be a dealer, for the theives and working girls it was a daily grind.  Any user knows that, of course that may not apply to movie stars or rock stars.  I knew a lot of people who lost EVERYTHING because of coke, including their freedom.  I know lawyers who went bankrup, embezzeled, and did time.  Pride comes before the fall.

When people say you spent thousands getting high, why not spend that money on treatment?  They mean well but really have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
We both know that as well as everyone on this forum.  Ultra Rapid Detox is a one or two day deal and it goes for $5000 or more.  Most any hospital where you just suffer goes for $3000 to $5000 per week.  Guys like us gotta take the county jail special.

Later Good Buddy,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Julie, you have pinned the problem with most of us. Even $2,000.00 is an incredible amount of money. I have always said in the past that when people remind you how much you have spent on getting high, they fail to realize what you did when you were an addict to get money, you would never do when you stop getting off! This is a major problem for alot of people right now and as a matter of fact, it appears even other forms of detox and drug treatment are very expensive. I know this is not true for everyone, but there are obviously some people willing to take advantage of desperate people in desperate situations. Thank God for people like Sara.

Julian

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:44:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes please I am very interested in more info. Thankyou.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could
ask her for more info.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:31:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

If you come you will not be treated like a terrorist.  People come to America from all over the world every day.  Do you know how the terrorist get in here?  They fly in, it is no big deal, we let them in.  But if they ask if you are a terrorist tell them no.

As being gay or bi, they could care less.  Places like Florida, NY, and California love tourist, that’s how many of them make a living.  Just do not have anything illegal when you come across through customs.

It would be nice to see ya, but I doubt if you’ll be in Michigan,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:26:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, If I may ask, your dad is upset with you on meth, is it what he has been taught by the great propogandists in our media, or is it just that you are taking a drug, a medicine for something he believes can be controlled with will power? Though I no longer get the comments from people anymore (I guess after 23 years they are tired of harassing me) but everyone in my family is greatly disappointed that I have been taking methadone. The problem though is their knowledge and understanding of drugs, methadone and addiction is so limited, so inadequate that I almost can’t blame them for their misguided energy. They are ignorant due to grasping and believing the propoganda and lies fed them by those in power with a malignant agenda! As a matter of fact, I stopped trying to convince them of meth’s worth a long time ago and just keep it to myself. I guess what I want to know is will it be possible for you to talk with your Dad to educate him as to what you are doing with meth and why? etc., etc.I hope so.

Sincerely,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Administration of ibogaine – A Discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:13:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee, have you read, “Breaking Open the head” by Daniel? It is illuminating to say the least and his first chapter is his recounting his Iboga experience. If you haven’t, please do yourself a favor and pick it up.

Regards,

Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 8:56:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

I have heard good things about www.indra.dk they use an extract and it really does not cost that much.  26 Euros per gram.  I don’t know how much to take but if I don’t get the Iboga soon like in two or three weeks I am going to try it.  If and when I do, I will tell you if it was worth it.  BTW, if anyone else has tried it please let me know if it worked and how much you took.  Hear is a link if your interested http://indra.dk/

– JIM

jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Julian,

EXACTLY…I wish I had the money to travel to Holland,
but I can’t even ask me pop, ‘cuz he’s so pissed that
I’m on methadone as it is. I guess I alienated too
many family members during my strung-out period, to
even appeal to their sense of compassion.

What detox doctors/therapists fail to realize is that
most junkies have never had more than a day or two’s
fixing money on them at one time- in order to get
$2000 or more, and not spend it on drugs of some sort,
we would either have to prostitute ourselves, or rob a
liquor store. Personally, I would rather die than
turn to hooking, and I don’t relish the idea of jail
either.

Oh well…I go to sleep every night with the knowledge
that, ultimately, I brought this upon myself.

Julie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 8:49:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.  There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.

I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose of info.
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:49:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie ,

Maybe you are right, all the info. I get is from the T.V, probbaly that’s
how the media Works, they just tell us little part of the truth.

I would love to visit Fl. espesially with my younger kids.

Sara

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:18:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,

That’s what happen to most addicts,because it is illegal , but what is nice
about it all
Is that you still love yourself enough to wish yourself a change for the
positive, what ever it maybe to you.
We all do wrong some how to ourselves one way or the other,
Part of us will be forgiving and wanting to grow to another state of doing,
feeling and recognition .

When I feel in you’r writing is that, an  upset part of you and a forgiving
part of you  are talking , that mean to me a lot and I wish you good luck.
It is also good to share your idea’s so that we can be aware of the
situation and maybe give you an advice which can be helpful to you in the
future.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 18:42
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian

Julian,

EXACTLY…I wish I had the money to travel to Holland,
but I can’t even ask me pop, ‘cuz he’s so pissed that
I’m on methadone as it is.  I guess I alienated too
many family members during my strung-out period, to
even appeal to their sense of compassion.

What detox doctors/therapists fail to realize is that
most junkies have never had more than a day or two’s
fixing money on them at one time- in order to get
$2000 or more, and not spend it on drugs of some sort,
we would either have to prostitute ourselves, or rob a
liquor store.  Personally, I would rather die than
turn to hooking, and I don’t relish the idea of jail
either.

Oh well…I go to sleep every night with the knowledge
that, ultimately, I brought this upon myself.

Julie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:17:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/20/2004 10:02:45 PM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
I have always said in the past that when people remind you how much you have spent on getting high, they fail to realize what you did when you were an addict to get money, you would never do when you stop getting off!

Yes sir! I could hustle with the best of them but since I am on Methadone the desire to be dishonest is very weak and the hustle is just about non existence.
2000.00 might as well be 20,000 to me right now! So don’t feel like you are the only one in that boat!
I had been doing so good saving for Ibogaine but I had a fender bender and my insurance is 500.00 deductible. That knocked a big dent in what I had put up! That is okay though, I am still plugging away to prepare for my treatment.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 3:57:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.

I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 3:08:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandy,
All we can do is our best. Nobody is perfect and that is a fact.
All the best to you.
Lee

booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Julie – I sure love this idea about the healing thru chanting and “right” pitches.  Boy if civilization would ever look in this direction for healing instead of our usual “cut and destroy” where we view everything mechanically instead of energetically – it seems like everything would change.  I once read in an animal communicator’s book who claimed that elephants make these very deep sounds that help heal and tone the whole earth.  It was also said that elephants “claimed” it took at least 12 of them together to have the desired effect, helping to explain why elephants are SO unhappy when it’s just a few together (they can’t do their job.)
Anyway, that’s really off topic…
Lee, thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I sense a big change in your tone lately and very much enjoy reading your ideas.  Thanks for being receptive without defensiveness.  I hope I am capable of doing the same…
Best, Sandy

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Randy,

>

>There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental

>health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a

>process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is

>this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy

>vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated

>into a ‘pitch’.

>

>When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and

>gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.

>  According to entrainment specialists, the organ can

>be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by

>directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for

>long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with

>voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing

>pre-recorded tones.

>

>Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting

>it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it

>sounds like complete and utter malarky or

>pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or

>at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

>

>Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist

>who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could

>ask her for more info.

>

>

>

>

>

>__________________________________

>Do you Yahoo!?

>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

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>

>

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ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 2:20:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie – I sure love this idea about the healing thru chanting and “right” pitches.  Boy if civilization would ever look in this direction for healing instead of our usual “cut and destroy” where we view everything mechanically instead of energetically – it seems like everything would change.  I once read in an animal communicator’s book who claimed that elephants make these very deep sounds that help heal and tone the whole earth.  It was also said that elephants “claimed” it took at least 12 of them together to have the desired effect, helping to explain why elephants are SO unhappy when it’s just a few together (they can’t do their job.)
Anyway, that’s really off topic…
Lee, thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I sense a big change in your tone lately and very much enjoy reading your ideas.  Thanks for being receptive without defensiveness.  I hope I am capable of doing the same…
Best, Sandy

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Randy,

>

>There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental

>health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a

>process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is

>this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy

>vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated

>into a ‘pitch’.

>

>When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and

>gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.

>  According to entrainment specialists, the organ can

>be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by

>directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for

>long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with

>voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing

>pre-recorded tones.

>

>Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting

>it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it

>sounds like complete and utter malarky or

>pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or

>at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

>

>Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist

>who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could

>ask her for more info.

>

>

>

>

>

>__________________________________

>Do you Yahoo!?

>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 12:52:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could
ask her for more info.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 12:41:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

EXACTLY…I wish I had the money to travel to Holland,
but I can’t even ask me pop, ‘cuz he’s so pissed that
I’m on methadone as it is.  I guess I alienated too
many family members during my strung-out period, to
even appeal to their sense of compassion.

What detox doctors/therapists fail to realize is that
most junkies have never had more than a day or two’s
fixing money on them at one time- in order to get
$2000 or more, and not spend it on drugs of some sort,
we would either have to prostitute ourselves, or rob a
liquor store.  Personally, I would rather die than
turn to hooking, and I don’t relish the idea of jail
either.

Oh well…I go to sleep every night with the knowledge
that, ultimately, I brought this upon myself.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 1:00:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Maryditton@aol.com [mailto:Maryditton@aol.com]
Sent: 20 September 2004 23:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s busy right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based on a misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste it, I will take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest part of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced more and more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel pain in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting if only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and in fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.  The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing to Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.”  You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?  If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,
Mary

Hi Mary,

OK, so it goes something like this…

…You never were born and you never will die. There is nothing that you have ever experienced, are experiencing now, or ever will experience that is not you. You are consciousness. This is existential truth.

However, after about 6 months of inhabiting the body, the belief arises that consciousness IS the body, along with thoughts and feelings. This belief in an identity smaller than everything is called the ego – a limited sense of self. This is relative truth.

So, to try and answer your question…..it is that the mind constantly seeks things to bolster its own sense of personal identity. It is driven to try and strengthen something which doesn’t actually exist. It creates a vast fortress around something – a personal “I” – the existence of which it has never been bold enough to question. It keeps moving because it neither wants to rest and risk confronting its own nature nor let up in the struggle to reinforce itself. This isn’t really a big deal, as the relative truth of egoic identity is just as valid as the existential truth of absolute identity. But, in times of transition for the ego, when there is a drive to further its own development, many questions as to what all this movement is about usefully arise and allow change to take place.

Hope this helps

with love

Nick

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 21, 2004 at 11:10:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You can find a list of ibogaine providers at http://ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm
from which you can make selections.

Howard

In a message dated 9/20/04 11:46:24 PM, Klatuu02@aol.com writes:

Im new to this list.. I have read  a lot of  the
experience that Iboga wields and  thought
it has tremendous psychotherapeutic  potential.
I would be willing to travel to places  overseas
to actually work with this entheogen..how  far
does one have to travel (from california) to  find
a workshop where it is legal with a  seasoned,trustworthy guide?

I have done other shamanic work as well  as
practice yoga and try to incorporate my  experiences
into artwork/music that brings back messages  from those
states of mind to those who would never  experience
them first hand…I personally feel art to be  integral to
the psychological health of our society and  that
the artwork of yogic /entheogenic  experiences
can bring back a lot of positivity to this  drab,
monotonous, consumer based  culture..

I hope to get some good responses in  here..
iboga is relatively unknown so I  assume
most people in here are serious in  their
intentions.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:38:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)<

As near as I can tell Sean, you got that right.
;-))
Seriously, I’m not at all dumping on Callie, only reminding her that in this
country there are lots of us practicing alternative lifestyles, including
her as near as I can tell- and all of us are greatly endangered.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US.
Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I
guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if
former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as
the come.:)

Sean

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Administration of ibogaine – A Discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 6:17:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everyone,

I am attaching a short document outlining personal observations on the taking of ibogaine. I have noticed a number of people running into problems with throwing up. So I wanted to share what I have learned on the various ways to take ibogaine.

I have broken down into Full & Mini Session/Oral Powder; Oral Capsule & Anal.

Discussion is invited.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 6:04:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary,
Just to clarify on that.
What I should have said is that I am willing to enter into my deepest issues which can elicit the deepest part of my pain. I do this as it removes the issues, releases the pain and allows me to be myself more easily. It frees me up.
I consider myself a practical man. I look on healing as much as an organic reality as a spiritual one. So I do what I can to heal the organ which stores all the ingrained traumas, …..
Lee

Maryditton@aol.com wrote:
Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s busy right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based on a misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste it, I will take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest part of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced more and more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel pain in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting if only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and in fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.  The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing to Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.”  You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?  If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,
Mary

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 5:51:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary,
Thanks so very much for the book recommendation. I am always starved of a really good book reference. Which is probably why I dont read too many.
The whole question of the sound in an ibogaine session is only something that recently I have started to think about as I was primarily focussed on my healing and understanding the journey. I think I need to read your book in order to come up with the questions and then hopfully get the answers.
There clearly is a connection in healing between the two and maybe its to do with tuning the mind onto the spirit level.
Howard gave out a reference on a paper related to music used among the bwiti: Polyrhythms Supporting a Pharmacotherapy – Contains Bwiti MP3 files: www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/showarticle.php?articletoshow=63&language=en
you might find that interesting. I am afraid I have not read it yet.
However I imagine there is a difference between the presence of sound in a session and the use of mantras to stimulate the chakras as that is a form of spiritual alignment – a spiritual practise. The other is more a taste of the energy of Eboga – an awareness of its spirit.
Just a few random thoughts.
BTW I think defining our bliss is an interesting idea you brought up. I believe that at a soul level we know exactly what our bliss is and identifying it is really a process of coming home to our true self.
Nice to hear from you.
Stay cool.
Lee
Maryditton@aol.com wrote:
Dear Lee,
The following is from a book called Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand:  Mantra allows the chakras to “switch on” safely and to operate at a higher “wattage”.  When we practise Sanskrit mantra, we increase the ability of the chakras to hold a spiritual charge.  It is as if a 25-watt bulb becomes able to hold 50 watts, then 100 watts, 500 watts, 1000 watts.  Mantras’ power derives not from any particular meaning that their syllables convey, but from the vibrational effect they create when they are pronounced repeatedly.  And as the mala (108 beads) relates to the rosary(54 beads) – multiply by 2.
I really think you would enjoy this book.  On page 29 the author talks of the anthropologist, Colin Turnbull ,who spent 2 years with the Mbuti Pygmies whose principle method of healing is chanting to the forest.  Turnbull’s book is Wayward Servants.  I haven’t read it yet.
So Lee, I’ve posed this question before to the forum with no reply; I’d really like to know your opinion or the opinion of anyone on the forum who is an ibonaut about whether the sound that accompanies the eboga journey has a connection to all this mantra stuff from India and Africa and all the other cultures that use sound healing.  A penny for your thoughts.
Good on you,
Mary

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 5:47:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:41:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary, I have been away a day and just now saw your post about chanting a mantra. That was the best explanation I have ever seen. Simple and direct. Makes me want to try it. Can any one do it? I have to figure out a way of dealing with pain after Ibogaine without opiates. Do you think it might help for that? All answers welcome.     Randy

From: Klatuu02@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 21, 2004 at 12:45:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im new to this list.. I have read  a lot of the
experience that Iboga wields and thought
it has tremendous psychotherapeutic potential.
I would be willing to travel to places overseas
to actually work with this entheogen..how far
does one have to travel (from california) to find
a workshop where it is legal with a seasoned,trustworthy guide?

I have done other shamanic work as well as
practice yoga and try to incorporate my experiences
into artwork/music that brings back messages from those
states of mind to those who would never experience
them first hand…I personally feel art to be integral to
the psychological health of our society and that
the artwork of yogic /entheogenic experiences
can bring back a lot of positivity to this drab,
monotonous, consumer based culture..

I hope to get some good responses in here..
iboga is relatively unknown so I assume
most people in here are serious in their
intentions.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 20, 2004 at 11:07:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 20, 2004 at 11:01:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, you have pinned the problem with most of us. Even $2,000.00 is an incredible amount of money. I have always said in the past that when people remind you how much you have spent on getting high, they fail to realize what you did when you were an addict to get money, you would never do when you stop getting off! This is a major problem for alot of people right now and as a matter of fact, it appears even other forms of detox and drug treatment are very expensive. I know this is not true for everyone, but there are obviously some people willing to take advantage of desperate people in desperate situations. Thank God for people like Sara.

Julian

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 8:57:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:39 AM
Subject: Re:
Hello dear Callie,
Skunk butter means butter made from weed,skunk weed. Like making cookie’s,
except you make butter.
Smiles Jasen (Aus)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 8:24:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary,

What I am saying is that the mind and body are inseparable.  They are
manifestations of you.  Pharmacologists would most likely consider the entire dialog
as irrelevant and say we should follow the neuromolecular activity, everything
else being conjecture.  That being said, any belief system works in certain
contexts if you believe.  That is why different belief systems exist and
adherents swear to their validity.

Problems sometimes develop when belief systems are put at risk as indicated
in the post below.

In a message dated 9/20/04 8:37:02 AM, ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com writes:

I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal
therapy. Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during
their time with ibogaine. It was as if they needed to, so as to help
break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new
information
should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received. These were
one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity
to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted. They were
secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their
collaboration confused the shit out of them. A good portion of their
process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created
a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”
The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.

I cannot verify the reality of what is said and just present it as an example.

Howard

In a message dated 9/20/04 5:50:59 PM, Maryditton@aol.com writes:

Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s
busy
right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based
on a
misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this

interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste
it, I will
take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest
part
of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced
more and
more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel
pain
in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting
if
only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and
in
fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who

states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all
it’s doing
in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying
to
move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.
The
behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing
to
Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have
any
theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind
is.”
You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?
If
you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my

question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind
goes off
center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our
center
we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can
be
owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are

by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a
stream of
thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with
a
condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious

to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving
away
from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 6:49:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s busy right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based on a misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste it, I will take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest part of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced more and more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel pain in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting if only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and in fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.  The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing to Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.”  You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?  If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 20, 2004 at 4:04:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie,
The 2 books that I am reading and working with in my own healing are Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand and Manifest Your Desiny by Wayne Dyer.  I just posted to Lee some quotes from Healing Mantras which you’ll read.
Even though I have been involved with ayurvedic study for a number of years, it is only very recently that I have been turned on by the practise of mantra; taking herbs I could grasp because I already accept the notion that we are what we eat, but  the sound vibration is something that we are “eating” as are our thoughts and all sensory impressions.  Therefore I decided to give the mantra thing a shot.  A woman that I have had spiritual counseling with recommended that I use the following mantra:  Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha.  This mantra is used to remove energy blockages.
I am a complete novice, Callie, so I can’t vouch for any of this.  I am saying this mantra for 40 days as this friend of mine advised and I wrote down my intention on a piece of paper and placed it in a “special” spot as the book suggests.  Actually the book suggests putting it on an altar or other spiritual spot in the home but I didn’t have an altar and now I sorta do…gotta get a holy card with Jesus on it (really dug it when I was a kid and even though I am totally repulsed by the Catholic religion I never lost it for Jesus)  and a few other symbolic objects – hey, maybe a tabernanthe iboga shrub statuette…
Even though I joke about this process, I have entered into it expecting great stuff to happen – I’ll keep you posted and I think the book will give you all that you need to do it if you like.
All the best,
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 3:30:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee,
The following is from a book called Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand:  Mantra allows the chakras to “switch on” safely and to operate at a higher “wattage”.  When we practise Sanskrit mantra, we increase the ability of the chakras to hold a spiritual charge.  It is as if a 25-watt bulb becomes able to hold 50 watts, then 100 watts, 500 watts, 1000 watts.  Mantras’ power derives not from any particular meaning that their syllables convey, but from the vibrational effect they create when they are pronounced repeatedly.  And as the mala (108 beads) relates to the rosary(54 beads) – multiply by 2.
I really think you would enjoy this book.  On page 29 the author talks of the anthropologist, Colin Turnbull ,who spent 2 years with the Mbuti Pygmies whose principle method of healing is chanting to the forest.  Turnbull’s book is Wayward Servants.  I haven’t read it yet.
So Lee, I’ve posed this question before to the forum with no reply; I’d really like to know your opinion or the opinion of anyone on the forum who is an ibonaut about whether the sound that accompanies the eboga journey has a connection to all this mantra stuff from India and Africa and all the other cultures that use sound healing.  A penny for your thoughts.
Good on you,
Mary

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 3:23:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/20/2004 1:26:04 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Hi callie,

Truly and honestly, I have no reason to attack anyone.
Sometime my English is not as good. Sorry if I gave you the impression of an attack.
I’m glad to see that you are writing Callie, that you are feeling better then few weeks ago.

My political feelings are nothing to do with Iboga treatment.

I always respect you freedom of choice.

sara

Whew! Great, I am glad! 🙂 I was having a hard time figuring out why you were upset with what I said.
Also, I did not know your English was not good. It seems very good to me!
Variety makes this life more interesting. It would be a dull and drab life if we all agreed with each other.
Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 2:25:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi callie,

Truly and honestly, I have no reason to attack anyone.
Sometime my English is not as good. Sorry if I gave you the impression of an attack.
I’m glad to see that you are writing Callie, that you are feeling better then few weeks ago.

My political feelings are nothing to do with Iboga treatment.

I always respect you freedom of choice.

sara

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 19:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

Sara, I would LOVE to travel to your country! I have never been out of the USA so my knowledge is very limited. I can’t imagine coffee shops and legal users places.
I think legalized prostitution is a good idea.
I sense that you are attacking me in a way. I really hope that is not true since I do not understand why you would feel the need to.
I would love to have my Ibogaine treatment at your house or I had hoped to consider it. Should I not?
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:37:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

by the way, Callie, an “alternative lifestyle” in my own opinion doesn’t
just mean same sex coupling. I practice an alternative lifestyle everytime I
light up a joint.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put
me a way for life.<

Got that right Sara.

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?<

Personally? Never again.
But that’s me- others have their reasons for voting the way they do- even
if
I myself just can’t understand it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?
I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put
me
a way for life.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 4:12
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA
getting
involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless
you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious
Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male
citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how
fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or
battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above
average intelligence.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:36:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I would LOVE to travel to your country! I have never been out of the USA so my knowledge is very limited. I can’t imagine coffee shops and legal users places.
I think legalized prostitution is a good idea.
I sense that you are attacking me in a way. I really hope that is not true since I do not understand why you would feel the need to.
I would love to have my Ibogaine treatment at your house or I had hoped to consider it. Should I not?
Callie

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Combating substance abuse with ibogaine
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:27:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

** See below
This citation just popped up on pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed
Use the search term “ibogaine”

I’ve just requested a copy of the full paper.  If anyone has it they may wish
to post it to the list for discussion.

Howard

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2004 Jun;36(2):191-9.

Combating substance abuse with ibogaine: pre- and posttreatment
recommendations and an example of successive model fitting analyses.

Hittner JB, Quello SB.

College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina, USA. hittnerj@cofc.edu

Ibogaine is an indole alkaloid derived from the root bark of the African
shrub Tabernan the iboga and it has been used for many years as a medicinal and
ceremonial agent in West Central Africa. Furthermore, both anecdotal
observations and recent studies suggest that ibogaine alleviates withdrawal symptoms and
reduces drug cravings. Although ibogaine articles typically include
information bearing on the duration of drug abstinence following treatment, little if
any attention is given to the psychological and environmental factors that might
facilitate a positive treatment outcome. Hence, a major purpose of the
present review is to suggest a number of theory-driven, pretreatment and
posttreatment recommendations that have good potential for enhancing ibogaine’s
effectiveness. The second major purpose of this review is to demonstrate, through a
reanalysis of previously published results, the utility of conducting successive
model fitting analyses on ibogaine treatment data. Such analyses are useful
for determining both the strength and form of the association between
pre-ibogaine treatment variables and post-ibogaine treatment outcomes. Finally, in order
to facilitate future quantitative reviews, the authors recommend that a
minimum set of patient and treatment-related variables be included in all ibogaine
publications involving human participants.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Hittner’s article?  I did a serarch on related links and found two more 2004 articles, one from
an addiction journal – smoking.  When I get a chance I will see what these two are about.

ann
think@francomm.com

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:07:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Only the fact that I can do what I do, you can’t do what I do even if you could do it better then me.
You have the symbol of liberty. We have AJAX , Coffee shops, legalized prostitution, users places.

Callie , That’s a long story, but I expect that in the near future , we will have a refugee
camps for American intellectuals here in Europe.

Sara

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 17:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/20/2004 6:48:12 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an alternative lifestyle ?
Sara, I do not understand what exactly you mean.
The president does not put anyone in prison. The judicial system does that.
What do you mean by alternative lifestyle? homosexuality? Gays and lesbians are not put in prison. It is against the law to allow them to be recognized as married.
Personally, I have no problem with a legal union of two people who love each other, no matter what their sex. That is not the deciding factor of who I will vote for though.
I may have answered your question and not understood it at all! lol! If that is the case, please clarify and I will answer again!
Peace to you!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Combating substance abuse with ibogaine
Date: September 20, 2004 at 12:40:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This citation just popped up on pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed
Use the search term “ibogaine”

I’ve just requested a copy of the full paper.  If anyone has it they may wish
to post it to the list for discussion.

Howard

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2004 Jun;36(2):191-9.

Combating substance abuse with ibogaine: pre- and posttreatment
recommendations and an example of successive model fitting analyses.

Hittner JB, Quello SB.

College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina, USA. hittnerj@cofc.edu

Ibogaine is an indole alkaloid derived from the root bark of the African
shrub Tabernan the iboga and it has been used for many years as a medicinal and
ceremonial agent in West Central Africa. Furthermore, both anecdotal
observations and recent studies suggest that ibogaine alleviates withdrawal symptoms and
reduces drug cravings. Although ibogaine articles typically include
information bearing on the duration of drug abstinence following treatment, little if
any attention is given to the psychological and environmental factors that might
facilitate a positive treatment outcome. Hence, a major purpose of the
present review is to suggest a number of theory-driven, pretreatment and
posttreatment recommendations that have good potential for enhancing ibogaine’s
effectiveness. The second major purpose of this review is to demonstrate, through a
reanalysis of previously published results, the utility of conducting successive
model fitting analyses on ibogaine treatment data. Such analyses are useful
for determining both the strength and form of the association between
pre-ibogaine treatment variables and post-ibogaine treatment outcomes. Finally, in order
to facilitate future quantitative reviews, the authors recommend that a
minimum set of patient and treatment-related variables be included in all ibogaine
publications involving human participants.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 12:11:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put
me a way for life.<

Got that right Sara.

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?<

Personally? Never again.
But that’s me- others have their reasons for voting the way they do- even if
I myself just can’t understand it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?
I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put me
a way for life.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 4:12
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA getting
involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless
you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male
citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how
fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or
battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above
average intelligence.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 11:37:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/20/2004 6:48:12 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an alternative lifestyle ?

Sara, I do not understand what exactly you mean.
The president does not put anyone in prison. The judicial system does that.
What do you mean by alternative lifestyle? homosexuality? Gays and lesbians are not put in prison. It is against the law to allow them to be recognized as married.
Personally, I have no problem with a legal union of two people who love each other, no matter what their sex. That is not the deciding factor of who I will vote for though.
I may have answered your question and not understood it at all! lol! If that is the case, please clarify and I will answer again!
Peace to you!
Callie

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Astrology and plant healers ?
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:24:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7617861-4646508?v=glance&s=books
Astrological Practice of Physick: Discovering the True Way to Cure all Kinds
of Diseases and Infirmities which are Naturally Incident to the Holy Man
by Joseph Blagrave

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rachel Radhakrishna” <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:10 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Astrology and plant healers ?

Hi Sara and All…

I wonder when you say this: “> In other words, “I Am
what I Am” .healing is universal energy you all can be
connected to every waxing moon”

If you mean to suggest that you have (or one has)
different success with the plant magics if they are
employed within natural moon cycles?

In other words, might it be worth waitin till an
auspicious new moon to dose?

And have you, or any body else, any observations as to
whether grounding water and earth moons “work better”
or “differently” than fire and air?

Yeah… add a map of your star chart to the bloodwork
and EKG testing protocols!  🙂  And have a sit down
with your astrologer before hand so you know what’s
coming down the pike after The Interruption.

Sorry if this is a repeat of any earlier inquiries
into the subject.  I’ve personally had some intense
psychedelic experiences that I later interpreted as
mixing up semi unconscious brain lubrication with
strong astrological transits to a sensitive Neptune
point.

And my first astrologer really imprinted me on this,
because she took one look at my birth chart (june ’68)
and FREAKED since it was the same night she had been
strapped down in a San Francisco psych ward flipping
on an acid thing.

love,
Rachel

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – Amendments
Date: September 20, 2004 at 9:52:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

For those who are interested (and I accept its not everybody’s cup of tea) I have updated the list of points I submitted re: the Eboga Healing Process on an earlier post to clarify some misunderstandings. In particular I have clarified the role of intention a little better (I hope) and the appropriate use of mini sessions.

The link is www.my-eboga.com/healing.html

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 20, 2004 at 9:57:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
Just a note to clarify, the six ” screamers” came with psycho-spiritual intentions.  They happened not to be using any substances.

f.

On Mon Sep 20 6:31 , Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> sent:

Nick,
I fully agree with you. Its too much to cope with a sudden transformation for most people as the ego can be left wondering if it has gone mad. Gradual integration of a healthier outlook settles the as yet unhealed egos need for assurance and familiarity.
Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Generally it’s my opinion that the ego needs multiple “staging posts” on it’s long journey toward true self-recognition. Even though ultimately it’s merely a journey from here to here this doesn’t seem to lessen the impact of the experience. Personally, I think it’s great that the idea of being a “fucked up junkie” becomes transmuted into the idea of being a “primal screamer” or “healer.” It’s too much to cope with going from “fucked up” to liberation in one go because the body is usually caught up in the bioenergetics of trauma and to unravel all this takes time. Whilst this is happening the ego needs new places to hang out in, places like “healer” etc.

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just take it as a necessary part of the journey.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 19 September 2004 08:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn?t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don?t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don?t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 7:47:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an alternative lifestyle ?
I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put me a way for life.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 4:12
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time, slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA getting involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!
Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.
Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above average intelligence.

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Astrology and plant healers ?
Date: September 20, 2004 at 7:10:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara and All…

I wonder when you say this: “> In other words, “I Am
what I Am” .healing is universal energy you all can be
connected to every waxing moon”

If you mean to suggest that you have (or one has)
different success with the plant magics if they are
employed within natural moon cycles?

In other words, might it be worth waitin till an
auspicious new moon to dose?

And have you, or any body else, any observations as to
whether grounding water and earth moons “work better”
or “differently” than fire and air?

Yeah… add a map of your star chart to the bloodwork
and EKG testing protocols!  🙂  And have a sit down
with your astrologer before hand so you know what’s
coming down the pike after The Interruption.

Sorry if this is a repeat of any earlier inquiries
into the subject.  I’ve personally had some intense
psychedelic experiences that I later interpreted as
mixing up semi unconscious brain lubrication with
strong astrological transits to a sensitive Neptune
point.

And my first astrologer really imprinted me on this,
because she took one look at my birth chart (june ’68)
and FREAKED since it was the same night she had been
strapped down in a San Francisco psych ward flipping
on an acid thing.

love,
Rachel

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 20, 2004 at 6:31:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
I fully agree with you. Its too much to cope with a sudden transformation for most people as the ego can be left wondering if it has gone mad. Gradual integration of a healthier outlook settles the as yet unhealed egos need for assurance and familiarity.
Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Generally it’s my opinion that the ego needs multiple “staging posts” on it’s long journey toward true self-recognition. Even though ultimately it’s merely a journey from here to here this doesn’t seem to lessen the impact of the experience. Personally, I think it’s great that the idea of being a “fucked up junkie” becomes transmuted into the idea of being a “primal screamer” or “healer.” It’s too much to cope with going from “fucked up” to liberation in one go because the body is usually caught up in the bioenergetics of trauma and to unravel all this takes time. Whilst this is happening the ego needs new places to hang out in, places like “healer” etc.

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just take it as a necessary part of the journey.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 19 September 2004 08:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn’t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don’t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don’t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 20, 2004 at 6:07:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Generally it’s my opinion that the ego needs multiple “staging posts” on it’s long journey toward true self-recognition. Even though ultimately it’s merely a journey from here to here this doesn’t seem to lessen the impact of the experience. Personally, I think it’s great that the idea of being a “fucked up junkie” becomes transmuted into the idea of being a “primal screamer” or “healer.” It’s too much to cope with going from “fucked up” to liberation in one go because the body is usually caught up in the bioenergetics of trauma and to unravel all this takes time. Whilst this is happening the ego needs new places to hang out in, places like “healer” etc.

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just take it as a necessary part of the journey.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 19 September 2004 08:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn’t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don’t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don’t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 4:04:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary,
I think its interesting the whole idea of mantras and beads. My mother says the rosary every day and I guess thats a form of the same thing. It helps to take the mind off the pain and allows the healing power of the soul to come through.
For what its worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painful. Therefore we avoid it.
Love to you
Lee
Maryditton@aol.com wrote:
Dear Howard,
Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.
Mary

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 2:37:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/19/2004, “CallieMimosa@aol.com” <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:

sorry bout the texas thing……..i new it started with a “t”!!!!!!

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:11:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/04 8:52:52 PM, Maryditton@aol.com writes:

Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always
moving away from where the mind is.

How can we move away from the mind when it is us?

If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:49:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 10:15:59 PM Central Daylight Time, aktionman@phantom.com writes:
i know u r from texas………but……

lol! I am not from Texas! I am in Nashville, Tennessee!
I am NOT a Bush supporter but for other reasons besides he is drunkard or has low intelligence (according to who you talk to).
I do think he is sneaky, dishonest and selfish and I do not want him to be Commander in Chief for 4 more years.
Callie

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:07:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/19/2004, “CallieMimosa@aol.com” <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:

callie…………i direct you to this:
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/sovereignty.html
and this is just 1 of our prez’s shining moments. (did you see farenhiet
911?)
i know u r from texas………but………

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:06:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 2:00:21 PM Central Daylight Time, slowone@hush.ai writes:
there was skunk butter in the fridge though

What is skunk butter?

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:02:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 7:47:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Maryditton@aol.com writes:
“What if a person doesn’t have the gift of faith, then what…”

Wow! Pretty close-minded Priest huh?
Personally I do not think faith is a gift. We have to make a conscious effort to have and keep faith. It cannot be ‘given’ to us. We have to acquire it through awareness, study, observation and knowledge.

In the ayurvedic viewpoint there is no demand for blind faith, in fact it is written that a person should seek proof for any “belief” that he or she embraces.

That is an example of what I believe too.

reciting the simple manta “Ohm” – feels really great, I’ll let you know what kind of effect it has.  The woman who gave me the beads said to recite the manta at least once a day for forty days and the best results can be had by constantly reciting the mantra at any opportunity; if, for instance, you’re in public then you would say the mantra in your head. The reason I’m telling you about mantra is because Wayne Dyer talks about it as a very powerful tool for manifesting destiny.  My guess is that this vibration (the mantra) starts to replace all that chatter in the head about how bad life is etc. etc.  I have read that it’s sort of like charging your battery (life force) instead of the constant depletion that most of us go through by virtue of the worry that has infiltrated our minds.

That is very interesting. Is just that meditation supposed to do that or are there other special readings or routines you must do.
I really need to read Wayne Dyer. I have heard lots of praise for him since the eighties.
Thanks for all the sharing! I love learning new ways to calm myself and become more centered and grounded.
I would love to hear any other ideas you have too.
Peace! Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 10:12:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time, slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA getting involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above average intelligence.

 

 

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 19, 2004 at 9:51:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard,
Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.
Mary

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [DrugWar] Fw: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine
Date: September 19, 2004 at 9:50:35 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home
Affairs Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s
250,000
heroin addicts was fuelling drug crime worth £20 billion a year.<

Ahhh, yes, the old “those darn junkies are causing all the crime” tactic
again.
See:

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)

snip-

With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new business
and means of control that can be instituted without giving up the profits
currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs industries. When announcing
his
resignation as head of the White House Office of National Drug Control
Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of
war terminology in the fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when
discussing the situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when
discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for such a
stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement involvement in
waging
the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” on July 24, 2001, to join
the
board of directors at DrugAbuse Sciences Inc., “the world’s first
pharmaceutical company worldwide devoted solely to developing medications
for the treatment of addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment
is now explained.

“DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference in the
health of Americans through its understanding of treatment and its broad
portfolio of new medications under development,” asserted the retired
general. “They have created a company consisting of the leading medical
researchers, clinicians and most exciting new product candidates. This
combination offers the promise of developing highly effective medical
treatment options for addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our
country over 100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is
odd, as McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year
52,000
Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal costs of
drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per year.”[11]

Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and
profitable)
anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of prohibitionist Drug
Warriors
since President Nixon first uttered his declaration of a War on Drugs in
1968. As related by author Dan Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson
Institute estimated that New York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were
responsible for a whopping $1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than
the total amount of crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime
are
inseparable companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a
speech on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie]
steals
to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in crime.’
Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and raised him. ‘The
total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is around $10 billion to
$15 billion,’ he said.

“In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in the
US
in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the previous year).
That includes everything except cars, which junkies don’t usually steal
because they can’t easily fence them, and embezzlement, which isn’t a
junkie
crime. The combined value of everything swiped in burglaries, robberies,
and
muggings, everything shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or
boosted
from a warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s
War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as fifteen
times
the value of everything stolen in the United States.”[12] As the original
fallacious numbers bandied about by prohibitionists convinced the nation
to
support mass-jailing of druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced
treatment today.

snip-

9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001
<www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123>

10. Ibid.

11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000.

12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of
Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70.

—-

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine

Martin Bright, home affairs editor

Sunday September 19, 2004

The Observer

Drugs charities have accused the government of abandoning plans to set up
a
network of doctors prescribing pure heroin to addicts.

Two years ago, the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, announced that the
number
of licences issued to GPs entitled to prescribe heroin should be increased
from less than 50 to 1,500 in an attempt to take the supply of the drug
out
of the hands of criminals.

The move was applauded by drugs organisations, which said the use of
medical
heroin – known as diamorphine – would help addicts control their chaotic
lifestyle and stop them being sucked into crime to support their habit.

But new Home Office figures show that the number of prescribing doctors
has
barely doubled. The National Treatment Agency, the government body
responsible for dealing with addiction, confirmed that, by March of this
year, only 123 doctors were licenced to prescribe medical heroin.

The majority of Britain’s GPs see