Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-09

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal Trippin’ in tha Purple Haze at St. Kitts
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:59:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 30, 2004, at 6:35 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Dana … Part of the reason “Patrick is so frantically preparing” is due to certain people [Dana] whom I speak with, on average, oh, say, twice a day [Dana], that have been aware of Every Single Aspect of the Ibogaine Panel at the HRC Conference [Dana], since its very inception; [Dana] who were asked, not once, twice, five, ten, nay … all these would be understatements, let’s just be honest and say they were involved since the Very Beginning [Dana] and asked AT LEAST 25 times, [Dana] over a 3 month span of time, regarding their needs, [Dana] and the possible whereabouts of Various Other People [Dana].

This same person [Dana] spent roughly 350 phone calls discussing their BUILDING [Dana], instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the Ibogaine Panel [Dana].  Who submitted their talk, title, position on the panel, and all related information [Dana], piece by piece, [Dana] and assured me everything was all-good [Dana].

And then … [Dana] true to form, this person [Dana] has a BursT of INSPIRATION and ACTIVITY, two weeks after the final, extended, THIS IS *really* the Very Last Final Deadline [Dana] — it’s all gone to the printers and we’re DONE NOW — and need to have Everything Rearranged Completely, [Dana] or The World Will End [Dana].

Ahum.  We’ll just skip right past all that and not name any names [Dana].

Yeah, I’m kinda busy n’ shit.  <Shrug>

On Sep 30, 2004, at 11:32 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from
chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about
it as anyone else on this list. >>

Dear Dana,

Just remember it is long acting.  It comes on in three phases.  And, it
actually does eventually cease its activity.  There is no reason not to follow
shamanic tradition and dose escalate up to educate yourself in a safe manner.  On
the other hand there is the, “here take this. Bamm!!! type of dosing.  You are
certainly in touch with just about everyone in the scene so you have the
opportunity to be well advised.  Give yourself plenty of recovery time. Will you
be going to St Kitts?

Howard

YES!  YeS!!!  FUCK YES!

That’s it mahn!  Howard, you’re a genius!  Dana, just get a fourth — and/or 5th — mortgage on your BUILDING (everyone has ’em these days), and SIGN UP!  We shall have the Dana Beal(R) Round!

SCIENCE will be Completely Rearranged!

It will spawn a BURST of activity!  The Dana Beal Monographs(R) will be submitted to JOURNALS!  Ibogaine will never be the same again.

“Subject appears to be Completely Fucking Crazy prior to administration of ibogaine HCl.”

… <12 hours later> …

“Subject is still Completely Fucking Crazy.  There has been no perceptible change whatsoever.”

p.s., If’n you givz me fiddy dollah, we can skip the ibogaine, hang out in the West Indies, and I’ll lie and just tell everyone you FINALLY DID THE GODDAMN IBOGAINE.

Thank you.

Patrick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Gay City News Aricle
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:45:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished. >>

So who is writing the article?

I also want to suggest that you may consider Ibogaine as a treatment for
methamphetamine in the gay community as your topic for discussion during the
ibogaine roundtable.  I think it would certainly pull in a significant audience.

Let me know what you think.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:42:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jasen,

Thanks for all the candles.:)  Monday afternoon is the start of journey.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:38:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla’s Complaint>That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low
dose, from chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–<

Dana, Dana, Dana, you have had a piece of rootbark in your mouth, no? That
is not the same thing at all as eating it, or “doing it” rather. As I noted
before, yesterday I think, I honestly and greatly appreciate your efforts to
promote ibogaine and hope that you continue to do so. But I think it’s a bit
disingenuous for you to claim you’ve “done it,” when from what you’ve told
me, you haven’t “done it,” you’ve “tasted” it.
And, you’re waiting for some actual HCL to “do it again”? I’m sure
someone could probably help you with that whenever you ask.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from chewed
rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m waiting to get
some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be able to control the dose
regimin, since I know at least as much about it as anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The point
is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his paper. And Greg
just told me they might print an article on ibogaine, one not done by
Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum,
such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that
Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more fluid,
all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the
years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors and
reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better to leave
them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who, willfully
ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d already know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees — that
Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving across a
broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a miracle cure,
because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND stimulants).  HE said
that the one organized group that could get Ibogaine through the
bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they did with the AIDS drugs)
shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option. Basically, he doesn’t want to
tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite the irony of Peter Staley voting to
stop development of ibogaine in 1994, and then proceeding to get strung out
on crystal and contracting new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to expect
to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is complicated
by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was trying to blackmail
Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated by Ardolino and a few other
people, but it was enough to make a big swath of people here skeptical. This
isn’t impossible to change, but it takes effort, both by providers and by
activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the way they
are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list gotten
Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in 1989, I
realized that it might not help my case for critics to be able to say (a la
Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his favorite drug.” But
times have changed,  and now I have a genuine medical need to do it. (A gram
and a half of indra got rid of my daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a
prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I think that will work better for this
purpose. I just don’t think the splitting of skull is needful. Already had
my religious experience.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:32:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from
chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about
it as anyone else on this list. >>

Dear Dana,

Just remember it is long acting.  It comes on in three phases.  And, it
actually does eventually cease its activity.  There is no reason not to follow
shamanic tradition and dose escalate up to educate yourself in a safe manner.  On
the other hand there is the, “here take this. Bamm!!! type of dosing.  You are
certainly in touch with just about everyone in the scene so you have the
opportunity to be well advised.  Give yourself plenty of recovery time. Will you
be going to St Kitts?

Howard

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:23:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,

Even though Dana sent this out to the whole list for their reading pleasure, you will notice that it was addressed to me and Preston.  I live in the NYC area and am very concerned by the growing crystal problem in the gay community. And unfortunately too often self proclaimed gay leaders make wrongheaded statements without knowing the facts.

Remember the letter is a reprint of a letter to the Gay City News.  Dana is certainly in no way alone on this issue.  In fact I think it is absolutely remarkable that a straight ally would stick his neck out like Dana does for the gay community. He really gives a shit. And given the rising HIV rate among young gay men, we really cannot afford to let self proclaimed experts ruin the lives of young gay men with misinformation about potential addiction treatment, in this case ibogaine.

I think that’s the point.:)

All the best,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:16:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Sure can feel that virtual love and handholding.  Will hold on to that on my journey next week.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:08:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Randy,

Have a beautiful journey and please post as soon as you are able afterwards. You have pulled me up more times than I count, and I am so damn pleased that your time has come.

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:13:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment

Callie, I have had those same thoughts in my head about giving up something that sucks but seems to be working at least a little bit. I’ve been on and off . I plan on not looking at the ‘puter till after I have done this so

light a candle Friday night and have a good weekend. I’ll see yall after the walls come down.       Randy     PS Callie, somehow

I know its coming for you too, soon. You can do it. Be ready.

*Hey Randy,

*Today in Australia it is Friday 12pm,I lit a candle for you,it is on my desk as I type.

*I am in a similar situation to you, and Callie,many years,…to many(to many for me that is).

*Sean,you kindly offered to light a candle for me when I do my treatment, would like to do the same for you,Callie
*and anyone else that is about to be treated,let me know what day Sean and candles will be lit.

*I enjoyed this list very much today,thankyou.I am always thankful for the list however some days I enjoy it more than others.

The candle is lit,and it’s light is beautiful.       Smiles Jasen

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:46:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,
Wow,great to see a photo and I love the yin/yang dragon.
It is nice to see pictures of people on the list so you can picture who is
posting.
Yes, that is a great photo of  V,with respect,V is a very attractive looking
woman,and the way you have spoken about her heart in the past posts,it
sounds like you are a very fortunate man.Good on ya.
Smiles Jasen
01, 2004 12:27 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] photos

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our families, not
including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go around). Two are of my
newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the Influence, but only the title
is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:16:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla to correct you on one part of your message, I’ve lost the
original thread through your’s, Julie’s and other’s quotes but Dana
wrote a inflammatory and reactionary message to this list.

The reasonable and very good I thought, letter that went to the
newspaper was not written by Dana.

Dana then mentioned that Sean and Preston would be doing outreach to
the gay community which also sounds reasonable.

Ann Ardolino has stopped posting how howard and bob sisko ripped her
off and gave her ibogaine in a hotel in nyc. I don’t think she’s ever
managed to sign onto the ibogaine list maybe because patrick lost her
subscription 😉 she didn’t have any trouble signing up to drugwar on
Mindvox.

The last part of your message doesn’t make any sense, you made it sound
like you used ibogaine to beat your meth problem in that NY Post
article Dana.

Everybody knows your favorite drug is pot not ibogaine, I don’t think
there is any confusion 🙂

How’s your daughter’s cyst?

.:vector:.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from

chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able
to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about it
as
anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The
point is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his
paper. And Greg just told me they might print an article on ibogaine,

one not done by Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV
forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New
Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more

fluid, all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the
years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors
and
reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better
to
leave them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who,
willfully ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d
already
know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees —

that Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving

across a broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a
miracle cure, because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND
stimulants).  HE said that the one organized group that could get
Ibogaine through the bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they
did
with the AIDS drugs) shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option.
Basically, he doesn’t want to tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite
the irony of Peter Staley voting to stop development of ibogaine in
1994, and then proceeding to get strung out on crystal and
contracting
new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to

expect to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is

complicated by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was
trying to blackmail Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated
by
Ardolino and a few other people, but it was enough to make a big
swath
of people here skeptical. This isn’t impossible to change, but it
takes
effort, both by providers and by activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the
way
they are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list
gotten Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in
1989, I realized that it might not help my case for critics to be
able
to say (a la Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his
favorite drug.” But times have changed,  and now I have a genuine
medical need to do it. (A gram and a half of indra got rid of my
daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I
think that will work better for this purpose. I just don’t think the
splitting of skull is needful. Already had my religious experience.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: Vioxx Recalled
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:00:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2371712&nav=23KuRVCO

If you use Vioxx to help ease the pain of arthritis, you better start shopping around for new drug. Merck, the maker of Vioxx is voluntarily pulling the popular drug off the shelves because new research finds an increased risk of heart attack and stroke…..

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 6:35:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about it as anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The point is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his paper. And Greg just told me they might print an article on ibogaine, one not done by Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more fluid, all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors and reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better to leave them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who, willfully ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d already know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees — that Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving across a broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a miracle cure, because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND stimulants).  HE said that the one organized group that could get Ibogaine through the bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they did with the AIDS drugs) shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option. Basically, he doesn’t want to tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite the irony of Peter Staley voting to stop development of ibogaine in 1994, and then proceeding to get strung out on crystal and contracting new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?
Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to expect to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is complicated by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was trying to blackmail Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated by Ardolino and a few other people, but it was enough to make a big swath of people here skeptical. This isn’t impossible to change, but it takes effort, both by providers and by activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the way they are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list gotten Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in 1989, I realized that it might not help my case for critics to be able to say (a la Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his favorite drug.” But times have changed,  and now I have a genuine medical need to do it. (A gram and a half of indra got rid of my daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I think that will work better for this purpose. I just don’t think the splitting of skull is needful. Already had my religious experience.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 5:19:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to clarify: my comments were in NO way a dig at Dana, but rather the Schindler’s List dude…

Sorry for any misunderstanding,

Julie

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
>Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
>KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
>such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
>LIKE AN SSRI.

Well, they are both serotonin agonists in a general sense, but that’s
where the similarity ends…

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Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com – Register online to vote today!

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: To Doc Tom -Who Is I?
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:59:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie:

Hello!  I’m sorry that my post has caused you distress and I will answer
you as simply as I can. You are concerned that you are too limited in your
understanding of cause and effect to benefit from Ibogaine.
All I can offer is my opinion here, do ask others, and intellect is what
we have to work with, via these mousy words and keyboards. I’m glad we
have every bit of it we do have.

Cause and effect is a recurrent theme in many of the Ibogaine images and
visions I experienced. This was perhaps because this plant spirit felt I
needed to figure it out better for me. Self reflection and understanding
of your own behavior, and others in a non-judgemental and compassionate
light would be what I found from my times with Ibogaine. If you are
considering the use of the Eye to overcome or understand your present
behaviors, addictions, and habits, I congratulate you on directing toward
the best natural medical way to do that of which I am aware. You shouldn’t
worry about it or dread it.

As for my images and phrases, did you follow Patrick’s definition of
Mindvox recently? I loved his eclectic cross connected rant that described
so much of where he has been and what he has learned. Puzzle through that
with a dictionary and great ideas and connections will open to you.

My experience with ibo was written and is posted on the fine
“Ibeginagain.org” web site at the following page:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/experiences/my_space_shuttle.shtml

That same site, up one level, has a list of a couple dozen other
testimonials that will present this experience from many viewpoints other
than my own. I ask that you read those and examine the situation from
other styles of speech and perception than merely mine. That site and
Howard’s are both very extensive selections of all sorts of information
about the Eye. It is a blessing to have their work so available and well
presented.

OK, cosmic chicken farm? Perhaps in your nursing experience the emotions
of despair and depression are observed within patterns of substance use
and abuse, or the range of normal human feelings. Human history, for some
who have studied it, has been felt to be engineered and designed for the
many to enrich and empower the few. I have been a seeker and student of my
world for 3 and a half decades. The analogy between modern life and that
in a well run chicken farm, has become too clear to me, and I presumed
that many other list members could catch the analogy. No offense, not
everyone on a chicken farm is a chicken, just most of the production. When
I notice how the Bush administration has marched the world to Iraq and
donates the youth of America to a murderous criminal occupation to grab
oil, the chicks being shoveled down the ramps in a chicken farm just hits
me with the analogy. I doubt if the chickens feel involved in a democracy
either.

Now Callie, none of this is about Ibogaine, per se. Inform yourself and
make the moves that will be best for you. Don’t let my obscure words and
comments influence you away from the best decisions and actions you need
to take. I have followed your posts for a couple months and you are
incredibly supportive and kind toward everyone with any problem. A true
caregiver.

What I was trying to provoke as a conversation among us was some
understanding of the effects, the feelings, and the experience of what
Ibogaine is. I called it the Undrug, which confused and aggravated some
readers. With a broad enough definition of drug, that is indeed nonsense.
Even our thought is defined with biochemistry and mineral/nutrient
interactions, maybe even higher emotions like love and sympathy are mere
tidepools of serotonin, dopamine, and serine in little sacred nerve plexi
within our brains. I surely don’t know.

You think I’m too intellectual? I wouldn’t push us into the PDR or some
medical school physiology here, although all your concerns about Methadone
and Ibogaine have related scientific information there. I noticed how the
AIDS -hype guy, Vigilius, seemed to gag everyone with that.  I enjoyed his
links and found them valuable, but it was way too dense and off point for
this list. I think only Sara caught that a complete parallel could be made
between the social engineering of a pseudo disease and the control agenda
behind the wicked war on Drug(user)s.

Anyway, thanks for your questions. If you don’t get my language, like my
symbols or prefer my movies, that’s just fine with me, I do. It’s a really
big group of very smart and interesting people on this list, and I’m glad
you are here to add to the diversity and beauty of opinions. I’ll post
more about who I am and wherefore I cometh elsewhere than this post. Good
luck in your important decisions and actions, whatever they may be.

Dr. Tom

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:31:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

Well, they are both serotonin agonists in a general sense, but that’s
where the similarity ends…

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:28:17 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

That was based on his cursory examination of the OASAS website and a few other sources. He also seemed really angry that we were saying it had multiple mechanisms of action. And his entire argument was based on authority– “GMHC had a commission that examined this. and they say there’s no known medication, approved or experimental, that can interrupt crystal meth dependency.” Ergo, there CAN BE no such thing as ibogaine. Which I suspect would be effective for at least one out of three speedfreaks–not to mention the potential for low-dose substitution therapy, which has enjoyed some success with crack, I believe.

He was really pretty hostile. I’m not certain he would even like to see gay addicts or HIV positive people be told about Ibogaine at all. I suggest an email campaign aimed at GAY CITY NEWS, to educate Schindler and Osborne as to their responsibility for blocking access to the treatment scene that does exist for their community. Osborne’s address is: duncanto@aol.com

Dana/cnw

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:20:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for sharing Preston! Love the tatoo!
V has gorgeous green eyes!
You spoke of Matrix in your other post. I just really did not like the movie. I appreciate you trying to explain it. I understood it but did not like it. Just not my kind of picture show!
Toodles, Callie

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] MAPS Dance at Alex Grey’s loft Friday Nite; SSDP regional Conf. Sat @ Columbia
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:00:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Three Big Events this Weekend!

Friday, Oct 1,  10 PM: Benefit Dance for Ric Doblin’s
Multi-disciplinary Association for Paychedelic Studies (MAPS) at Alex
Gray’s Loft, 540 W. 27th St (4th Floor).

Saturday, Oct 2, 11 AM to 5 PM:  “LOCKED UP!” –Regional Students for
a Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP) Conference, a series of panels and
workshops on Dropping the Rock featuring Ibogaine Friend Assemblyman
Jeff Aubrey  at Lerner Hall, B’way & 115th, the Satow Room on the 5th
Floor.

Sunday, Oct. 3, 6 PM: Cures not Wars Meeting @ 9 Bleecker St.
followed by a Road Trip to Washington, D.C. to do an Ibogaine info
zap at Kerry H.Q. at MacPherson Square from 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM
Monday Oct. 4 and the Americans for Safe Access (ASA) medical
marijuana protests Tuesday Oct 5th. Local housing available. Call
212-677-4899 for details.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] LONG TRIP FOR PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS
Date: September 30, 2004 at 3:31:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LONG TRIP FOR PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS
By Kristen Philipkoski
Wired
September 27, 2004

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of
persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help
people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute <http://www.heffter.org/>, the
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
<http://www.maps.org/>
and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug Administration to
approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics. The movement
seems
to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the FDA and the Drug
Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to three clinical
trials
testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and several more are on
deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they
were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’
hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it,
and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder
of the Heffter Research Institute, a scientific organization that
organizes
and funds trials involving psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than
the one
medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the
National Institute on Drug Abuse <http://www.nida.nih.gov/> and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow
the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the
approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president
of
MAPS. The roadblock with marijuana has centered on supply. A
government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana the
government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is
decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public
policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government — led to the
launch of
the first FDA-approved clinical trial testing MDMA as a therapy (in
this
case for post-traumatic stress disorder) since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in
almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital,
presented his
proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists
and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are
exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner
who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches, which are rare but
brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had
never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and
skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would
have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain;
the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing
on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually break a
cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement.
He now runs clusterbusters.com <http://www.clusterbusters.com>, where
he
communicates with about 200 other cluster-headache victims who have
tried
psilocybin to relieve their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in
the
form of questionnaires, which Halpern can present to Harvard’s
institutional
review board.

Studies starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results
treating
cluster and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold
decide to
try a psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders
including depression, alcoholism and addiction to other drugs like
heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA on his
patients in the early ’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first
synthesized by Merck in 1912) along with Alexander Shulgin, who became
a
cult figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife,
Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest
body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands
for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone
of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug,
and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1 drug, the highest level of illegal
drug
in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing ecstasy,
including
doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer stopped prescribing
it
for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of
psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had
ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because
it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year
later,
the researchers retracted the study because they discovered they had
accidentally used methamphetamine instead of ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and
DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA
Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead to
perform a
study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients. He got
permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy
volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research
in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When
after
several years neither the FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed
his
proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it
had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work
with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients
out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the
study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which
began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these
compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters
need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can
be
used safely and effectively.”

————
Thanks
NHNE News List

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 2:41:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 11:09:38 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to
come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me
to
benefit. >>

Dear Callie,

I have not yet met anyone who is too limited in insight of cause and effect
to benefit from ibogaine.  As a Practical Nurse you have to undestand cause and
effect.  As a drug user you have to understand cause and effect.  The insight
you need is yours, not someone else’s.

Howard

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:51:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Love your tats Preston 🙂 You got patrick’s purple
dragon tattooed on yourself 🙂 I think its working
🙂 🙂 🙂

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken
last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls
drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our
families, not including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go
around). Two are of my newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original
picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the
Influence, but only the title is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a
great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:50:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world 😉

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter. This
is going to help what? Who is going to listen to this.
Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and
that all it is is
an SSRI like wellbutrin.

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT
ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:03:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,
I’m so happy that you’re feeling more positive! 🙂 It really helps to keep busy. I’m glad you had a good cry and let it all out.  See how many people luv you?  And it is a kind of love.  We’re here to hold your hand-can you feel it?
LOL Hannah 🙂

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)

Hi list,

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being there for me a couple of days ago.  The feeling of support from all over the US and the world is really almost overwhelming.  Today I thought, “all these people are pulling for me, it sure is time that I started pulling for me.”  Then I cried. But a good cry.

I am getting a full retreatment next week, and then will work much more intensively on aftercare than last time.  One part of my aftercare I know will help is educating the gay community on ibogaine. (thanks Dana.:)

I have said it before, this group fucking rocks!

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:59:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)

Hi list,

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being there for me a couple of days ago.  The feeling of support from all over the US and the world is really almost overwhelming.  Today I thought, “all these people are pulling for me, it sure is time that I started pulling for me.”  Then I cried. But a good cry.

I am getting a full retreatment next week, and then will work much more intensively on aftercare than last time.  One part of my aftercare I know will help is educating the gay community on ibogaine. (thanks Dana.:)

I have said it before, this group fucking rocks!

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:24:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and
that all it is is
an SSRI like wellbutrin.

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage.  Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:19:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

I love your tattoo(s)…Oh, and by the way, V is very
cute!

Julie

_______________________________
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Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Matrix
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:17:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree, Preston- I loved the first Matrix movie.  The
next two, in my humble opinion, were sub-rate garbage.
Too Hollywood.

I loved the whole ‘Know Thyself’ theme too…The movie
blew my mind on many levels, in fact…’Residual
Self-Image’; ‘there is no spoon’…Oh my god, it was
loaded with gems…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:29:38 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: greglake@eden.rutgers.edu
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Atten: Sean, Preston:

Gay City News has agreed to print the following letter. It’s significance is that the publisher, Paul Schindler, is very involved with the forums, having moderated the one that Alan Clear of HRC criticized for hosting an appearance by the DEA. Schindler’s  lead writer, Duncan Osborn (a member of ACT UP when it voted 23 to 21 to discontinue NIDA clinical trials of Ibogaine) has taken the position  that we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and that all it is is  an SSRI like wellbutrin. (He was also rude on the phone to Dr. Ken Alper.)

The forum organizers, Dan Carlson and Bruce Kellerman, take the position that they’re not about medications development, which was good enough for AIDS, but not for addicts. Their response to crystal meth: turn in a friend to the DEA, so they can turn in their friends. It’s the only way they can “get help.”

Letter to the Gay City News:

As much as I appreciate Duncan Osborne’s reporting, your continuing
series on Dan Kellerhouse and Dan Carlson seems to be extremely biased
in favor of these two non-credentialed “experts”.  As an AIDS activist
and long-time survivor, I question why you feature these two
profiteers while ignoring those of us who have worked in the trenches
here in NYC.  In the four years that I have been observing and
participating in the now-defunct Mayor’s Office of AIDS Policy and
Coordination (MOAPC) I have never seen these two individuals at any of
the Alcohol and Other Drugs workgroup, the Social Services workgroup
or the Health workgroup – yet they are able to mislead Harvey
Fierstein and Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS into working with
them.  They have no 501c-3 status or medical training that I know of.
Why the unending coverage?  Just wondering.

–Sincerely,
********************************
Greg Lake
********************************
cc: file

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:27:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our families, not including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go around). Two are of my newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the Influence, but only the title is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (way ot) Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:49:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The
Matrix’.<

There are some incredibly deep moments in the Matrix Callie, just to let you
know.
When Morpheus takes Neo to the simulation Matrix, to show him how to
operate inside the program, he tells Neo that “everyone you see is a
potential enemy. These people are still asleep, still plugged into the
Matrix and will fight as hard as they can against waking. They don’t want to
know,” or something along these lines. (I’m loosely paraphrasing here.) I
was strongly reminded of our current modern situation, which I think was the
point of the writers in my humble opinion, where our system is the Matrix,
and most people simply don’t want to know, do not want to wake up to what’s
happening, the murderous wars (including the one on some Drugs and User)
based on lies, the corporate and government criminality, the Sept. 11
attacks and subsequent coverup(s), etc, etc.
That film is full of amazing stuff like this, little flashes of
brilliance all the way through it. I loved the first film. The last one I
didn’t at all like. I was bored silly by it, but was on a lot more
painkillers too, so was having trouble staying awake to watch it- which
might have meant it was really boring, or I would have been bored by
anything in that condition. I don’t know which it was because I’ve been on
lots of painkillers for a long time and am used to staying up on them, even
at the amounts I was doing, so I suspect it wasn’t that great a flick for me
anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)

Hi, I am Callie, a 45 year old Practical Nurse Methadone Maintenance patient
since 1997.
I am hoping to experience Ibogaine before the year is over.
I love reading all the colorful, descriptive personal insights into Ibogaine
but they are your personal insights as Ibogaine relates to you and probably
some insights shared with you by patients and other Ibonauts.
You write from a very intellectual point of view.(IMHO)
Personally, I have a difficult time understanding what you are saying at
all! I am sure it is just me. I do not understand all the symbolism (occult,
cryptomasonic???!!!)
And, why do you refer to life as a cosmic chicken farm? Why do you call
Ibogaine a seventh dimensional
plant ally? What is a mongo level of suffering?
You say, ” It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve got with the
Eye. The Undrug.” I am positive That I do not ‘get’ it.
One more question please. What does this mean? “The human spirit is well
into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these social trends of
chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer plagues to
criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment, and the
hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.” mean in regular, everyday language?
Dr. Tom, I am not trying to be smart ass. I bet you think I am! I just
really don’t understand what you are saying.
I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The
Matrix’.
The one thing you said that I understood, “None of us can or should make
other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause and
effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks for all on
this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.”

I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to
come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me
to benefit.
Sincerely,
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] consciousness and god
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:19:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
This isn’t exactly on topic, but considering that our consciousness is
our own, and that the federal government tells us what we are and are not
“allowed” to ingest in hopes of exploring or altering or maintaining that
consciousness, I think this is on topic, somewhat. Cognitive liberty is a
very important aspect of the War on Some Drugs and Users, although I suspect
that many are loath to bring it up because it sounds somewhat “out there,”
too brainy one might say. It doesn’t pertain to taxes and money and
corruption and crime and prisons and politics really- it’s much less
tangible than all that, and scares off some folk I think. But personally I
do agree with the folks at the Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics,
Richard Glen Boire (a contributor to UTI btw, on just this topic
coincidentally enough), that our minds are our most personal, sacred
possession and we must have the right to alter our thoughts as we will, so
long as we are not hurting others. I know I’m pretty much preaching to the
choir here, so I’ll leave it at this and let you get on to reading this very
interesting article.
If you’d like to know more about the CCLE, please visit:

keeping freedom in mind

Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <CERJ@igc.org>
To: <CERJ@igc.org>
Cc: “Peter Russell” <pete@elfrock.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:43 PM
Subject: A Sleep of Prisoners

Peter Russell is a physicist and psychologist by training.  His primary
interest is the exploration and development of the human mind, and their
application to the world today.  He is the author of several books,
including The Global Brain Awakens, The White Hole in Time, and The Creative
Manager.

http://www.swcp.com/~hswift/swc/Winter99/russell9902.htm

Science, Consciousness
and (Dare I Say It?) God
by Peter Russell

[Web site editor:  This was originally a transcription of the keynote
presentation at the Science and Consciousness conference held in
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA, in April 1999.  The transcription has been
reviewed and modified slightly by the author, to the following result.]

Science and consciousness has at last come of age.  My title indicates
that I believe that’s where the science of consciousness is eventually going
to lead. Paul Davies has written that science has looked out to the edges of
the universe to deep space, to deep time — to the beginning of the
universe, and to deep structure — to the basic level of the quantum.  And
science is proud to proclaim that they have found no need or place for God.
The universe has worked perfectly well without it.  So science has nicely
got rid of God — thank you very much.  But what they forgot about was the
area of deep mind.  I don’t think any great spiritual teacher ever wrote God
would be found out there at the edge of the universe.  Science is now taking
us into the study of consciousness, the area of deep mind.  We are only just
beginning at the moment.  Eventually when we really get into deep mind — as
we have gone into deep space, deep time, and deep matter — then we will
find out what !
the gr
eat spiritual teachers have been talking about.

I think that science is going to find itself unwittingly having to explore
the very topic it has so strenuously avoided for centuries.  When you look
out into deep space, deep time, and deep structure, you don’t find
consciousness either.  Consciousness is a HUGE problem for science.  And yet
it is the one thing that none of us can deny.  We are conscious; we have
experiences.  You are not biological robots, all dark inside.  You all
experience being in this room.  We may be having different experiences, we
may doubt our experiences, but we cannot doubt that we are experiencing
beings, and yet there is nothing in the western scientific world view that
predicts that we or any other sentient beings should actually have
experiences.  Given that we do, there is no way of accounting for it.
Christian deQuincy calls it the paradox of consciousness.  He says
scientists are walking around every day with the fact of their own
consciousness, staring them in the face, and with absolut!
ely no
way of explaining this.

David Chalmers, philosophy professor in Santa Cruz, calls this the HARD
problem of science.  The easy problems — and they are not easy at all, and
may take another 50 years to work them out — are how the brain functions.
After doing all that, the really hard problem is how something as
unconscious as matter can give rise to something as immaterial as
consciousness.  That’s the problem.  He calls it the hard problem; I call it
the impossible problem — within the current world view of science.  As we
explore consciousness, we are going to have to make a radical revision of
the whole world view of science, a new paradigm.  But I think it is deeper
than that — a ‘super paradigm’.  An example of a paradigm is the revolution
of Copernicus.  Then, everyone believed the earth was still and the stars
revolved around it.  It was obvious.  All you had to do was look out at the
sky.  And the religion and science of the day reinforced it.  But there was
a problem with that, as Thoma!
s Kuhn
has written about.  The planets did not move as expected, but wandered
about.  This required complicated theories to explain that.  And then five
hundred years ago, Copernicus said, “Look, the earth is spinning around”.
And of course we all know the church didn’t like it.  In fact his book
wasn’t published until his death, as he knew the church would stomp on him.
Later, Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that Copernicus was
right.  But the church put him under house arrest for the rest of his life
to keep him from talking about this heresy.  Now, after Newton worked out
the details 150 years later, we believe it.  And we had a new model, a new
paradigm.

I think the same thing is going to happen in science.  Paradigms pertain
to a particular science, and this is even deeper.  A paradigm within a
paradigm is a ‘super paradigm’, such as is the current world view of space,
time and matter.  Here, the anomaly in the current view is consciousness
itself.  As I said before, consciousness is absolutely undeniable, and also
completely inexplicable.  So what has happened with consciousness is what
Kuhn predicted.  The first thing science did was ignore it — for good
reasons, they thought.  You can’t measure it, so it doesn’t fit into the
methods of science.  Secondly, science has wanted to be objective, getting
rid of something as variable as mind.  It has gone for objective truth,
independent of consciousness.  And lastly, the universe works perfectly well
without it.  So why bother?

But things have changed this century; as quantum physics seems to have
shown that consciousness does actually affect the reality we observe.  There
are a lot of discoveries in medicine — the effect of attention, the effect
of consciousness of the healing of persons, even the remote healing of
persons.  There is all the research on the biology of the brain.  But what
science is doing at the moment is trying to fit the anomaly into the old
paradigm.  Francis Crick thinks it has to do with brain chemistry.  Others
think it has to do with chaos and complexity theory.  Lots of interesting
theories.  But how does that, whatever it is, give rise to experience?  But
that’s where science is now: after ignoring it, they try to fit it into the
current model.  Recently Richard Dawkins, of ‘selfish gene’ ideas, was
talking in London and said, “I cannot explain consciousness.  No scientist I
know of can explain consciousness.  However, I have no doubt that we
eventually will”.  That’s wh!
ere sc
ience is today.

I think eventually science will be forced to adopt a completely different
‘super paradigm’; one where consciousness is as fundamental as space, time,
and matter, maybe even more fundamental.  Not something that rises out of
space, time, and matter, but as fundamental.  This idea about consciousness
is not a new idea, you find it in many eastern philosophies, western
philosophies, many spiritual teachings.  But science isn’t interested in
spiritual teachings, as it knows it is in the realm of space, time and
matter.  And it is interesting that Copernicus’ ideas were not new.  The
Greeks had it much earlier, but no one was interested, as it didn’t fit with
daily experience.

What do I mean by consciousness?  We use the word consciousness many
different ways in our culture, and it leads to a lot of confusion.  It’s a
bit like the Eskimos have many words for snow.  We have only snow or sleet.
If you go to Sanskrit, they have 10, 20 words for different subtle aspects
of the mind.  Someone says human beings are the only ones with
consciousness, but what they probably mean is that we have
self-consciousness.  But a dog surely has experience — it isn’t a
biological robot.  If I watch a dog, I think it has experience.  If we
didn’t think so, we wouldn’t need to give them anesthetics during
operations.  We’d say all that yelping and whining is just a biological
reflex — don’t worry.  We think they feel pain.  I’m not thinking of
political or environmental consciousness — what I mean by consciousness is
the *faculty* of consciousness.  I think it goes all the way down through
creation — dogs, cats, dolphins, why not birds … when do you stop?  They!
are n
ot biological robots.  Maybe the experience gets much less rich than our
experience.  The classic view is that it goes down as far as nervous
systems, so maybe an amoeba wouldn’t have experience, maybe worms would, but
there is something going on.  The old super-paradigm of space, time, and
matter says that consciousness needs something to emerge from.  But if we
change to the idea of consciousness being universal, then maybe a nervous
system is merely a particular amplifier of experience, or helps the
experiences to take shape.  I think consciousness goes all the way down to
simple cells — even to pure, simple atoms.  In philosophy, this is called
panpsychism.  In Greek, “pan” means all.  The objection to this is that
rocks must have experience, but it doesn’t mean that at all.  Maybe what
goes on in a cell is one billionth of that of ours, and that of a rock one
billionth of that.

If we go all the way down, we come to the photon, one of the fundamental
levels of existence.  What fascinates me is the parallels between light in
the physical world, and consciousness.  We talk of consciousness as light,
and I don’t think it is accidental.  We talk of the Inner Light, the light
of consciousness, and the light with which are all born into the world, etc.
We talk about that.  And light is a big anomaly in physics.  Light moves at
the same speed relative to the observer.  That’s where Einstein’s relativity
came from.  No matter how fast you go, light will overtake you and go
186,000 miles/sec faster.  Even if you accelerated yourself to 185,999
miles/sec, it would go 186,000 miles/sec faster, not 1 mile/sec faster.
Nobody could explain this, and it goes completely against common sense.
They have actually flown clocks around the world, and they slow down, by
maybe a billionth of second.  You have heard that nothing can go as fast as
light, because, if it ha!
s mass
, the mass would go to infinity and it would take more than all the energy
in the universe to get it going.

But light has no mass, so it goes with the speed of light, by definition.
And from the point of view of light itself, time has stopped, and distance
has shrunk to zero.  So all light knows is now.  It doesn’t experience time
and space as we do.  Light, somehow, lies beyond the space, time matter
world, not part of the material world.  What the mystics have said about the
Inner Light, is that time and space disappears when you get down to the deep
levels, with a totally silent mind.  Saint Augustine said, “He that knows
the truth, knows what this light is and that it is eternity”.  And Emerson
said, “time and space are but the physiological colors the eye makes, the
soul is light”.  So I think there is more to this than verbal parallels.
What it seems to me, my speculation is that somehow as the universe
manifests, it is first light, and the first manifestation of consciousness
is also light.

It is not only the mystics that say about nature of the self.  My favorite
is the physicist Schroedinger, who said, ” What is this I?  You will, on
close introspection, find that what you really mean by “I” is the ground
stuff upon which all experiences and memories are collected”.  What both the
mystics and science is pointing towards is the faculty of consciousness.
But what the mystics say — and that’s where it gets interesting — is that
pure consciousness is also God!  That’s where you have the experience of
God.  If you say “I am God”, in most cultures you get lynched.  The German
mystic Meister Eckhart was fond of saying “I am God” or “I and “God are
One”.  And the Vatican sent a messenger to say “Nope, you can’t say that.
You can say you have the experience of God but not that you are God, as God
is separate.”  Ram Das tells about visiting his brother in a mental
institution and his brother asked, “Why is it that you go about the world
saying you are God, and peop!
le buy
your books, and worship you, and I say “I am God”, and they stick me in
here?”  And he said, ” I say everyone else is God, and that’s the
difference.”

The mystics are not talking about what we mean by “I”, the individual “I”.
In Sanskrit they talk of different levels of “I-ness”, not the arrogating
ego who takes on the qualities, like I am Peter Russell, I am British, I am
male, I think these thoughts, etc., etc.”  That’s the most superficial I.
Then below that is what’s called Atman, which is the universal
consciousness, and below that is Brahmin, which is best translated as all
that is — the whole.  And the statement “I am God” is “Atman is Brahmin”.
So what they are really saying is that this fundamental level of
consciousness is what we mean by God; that which is your deepest level of
consciousness.  And they say that it is a state of union, a condition of
identity with the divine.  Here is a Sufi mystic, “When thou knowest thine
own existence, then thou knowest God”.  And Ramana Maharshi, “I Am is the
name of God.  God is none other than the self”.  So I think this is what
science is unwittingly getting into, thou!
gh it
doesn’t think so.  It thinks it is studying about how consciousness arises
out of space, time, and matter.

The word spiritual comes from “spiritus” in Latin, which means air, vapor,
wind, breath.  What is common among all those meanings is they are all
intangible — they can’t be seen and touched, and are unmeasurable.  What
science has done is study the things that which can be seen, and touched;
the material world.  The spiritual traditions have been on a parallel
course, examining the intangible world of the mind — the consciousness —
and just as science has come to its own laws and discoveries, and so has the
spiritual traditions, finding discoveries about the functioning of the mind.
And we can take this a step farther.  Science has given us technologies to
improve the quality of life, greater comforts.  And the spiritual traditions
have given us the same, many practices improving the quality of life, giving
us greater inner freedom so we can be much clearer in our thoughts, with
more ability to achieve our potential.  We can trace consciousness way back
to where humans f!
irst b
ecame aware of our consciousness.  As soon as we became aware of that, we
wondered about other beings — the bears, the eagles, and perhaps the trees.
These were the beginnings of religions, projecting a human consciousness.
If a boulder rolled down and smashed their house, they perhaps believed the
mountain was angry, and should be appeased.  But these all were about
consciousness.  And as time moved on, these became abstracted and
generalized into deities.

I think just as science has moved through paradigms, so has religion. The
first paradigm was animism, the second was the polytheistic religions.  The
Hindus had a total of somewhere around 3,300 different deities in a
hierarchical structure.  In the Greek system they had twelve major deities.
In the early European traditions you had four basic deities, which we still
have in the days of the week.  Wednesday was Woden’s day, Thursday is Thor’s
day.  Then there is Sun’s day and the Moon’s day.  But there still was the
projection of human consciousness onto the deities.  Then the fourth
paradigm was the atheistic religions, which sounds like an oxymoron.  By
this, I’m talking about things like Buddhism, Jainism in India,
Confucianism, Taoism.  They said lets get rid of all these deities and
sacrifices.  It is actually about you, it’s about dealing with your own
mind, your own consciousness, about the path to liberation.  And the fifth
religious paradigm has sort of been there !
all al
ong, but well underneath, and that is called pantheism, meaning God is in
all.  That is what a lot of the great mystics have said.  God isn’t out
there separate, sitting on top of the mountain, as the Greeks had it, or up
in the sky.  If God is in all in everything, it is also in the essence of
consciousness.  Jesus was a pantheist but you wouldn’t get it normally from
reading the gospels.  He said God and “I are one”, which is usually
translated as ‘I, this person, am God’.  But go back to the Gospel of St
Thomas (which didn’t get modified by the conference of Constantinople in the
third century when there was this big debate about was Jesus a man who
discovered God, or a man sent by God, and it was decided he was actually the
son of God, and all the gospels were translated in that way).  In the Gospel
of St. Thomas, Jesus was asked “Are you God?”  And he said “Yes, and so are
you, and so is this rock”, the pantheistic view.  Einstein was probably a
pantheist — a lot of en!
vironm
entalists are pantheists.  It’s that view that God is in all.  And if it
is, it is in the essence of our own consciousness.

And I think science is moving in that direction, too.  If what the mystic
says is true, that at the deepest level of consciousness, when you get down
to those deep levels, you begin to understand, to experience, what is meant
by God, and the deepest level is God.  Then the shifting of science to
consciousness-is-in-all things becomes pantheism.  So I think that when
science gets down to deep mind, there actually will be a real synthesis of
science and religion.  The last and real great frontier is the deep,
profound understanding of deep mind, is human consciousness, is inner space,
and we are just in the very, very beginning.  And when we do, we will be
able to see that synthesis we have been waiting so long for.  And now is the
time we can actually begin to understand what the great spiritual teachers
have said.  In the past, you had only what the benefit of your culture had
to say.  Now we can have what all the cultures have to say about
consciousness.  And this will be i!
n the
language of our time, that of reason, and understanding.  And finally as
the great teachers have said is, “practice it”.  In that sense the real
exploration of consciousness is not thinking about it, analyzing.  What they
have all said is “do it”.  The real laboratory for the exploration of
consciousness is inside your own mind.

In that sense, each of has our own laboratory, each doing our own
exploration, each coming to our own conclusions, sharing this with others,
learning from each other.  Which is the process of science. It may not fit
the current paradigm, which is having hypotheses, conducting experiments,
and comparing the results with others, doing new experiments.  That’s what
we are all doing today, drawing our own conclusions and sharing and learning
from others, what works in terms of meditation, etc.  Just look in any
bookstore.  You find thousands of books, people sharing with each other,
through many forms of media.  That’s what makes now really exciting, not
that we are reaching that understanding.  We are approaching that time when,
for the first time ever on the planet, we are reaching that time when we can
have an universal awakening, rather than just those fortunate individuals
and saints, sages and mystics who woken up.  This probably will come at a
time when we need it so much.

I finish with a poem, ‘A Sleep of Prisoners.  I think it sums it all up so
well.  It’s by Christopher Fry, from his play by that name, written in
poetic form at the end of the second World War.  I love it so much.

From Fry’s ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’:

The human heart can go the lengths of God.

Dark and cold we may be,
but this is no winter now.
The frozen misery of centuries
breaks, cracks, begins to move;
The thunder is the thunder of the floes,
The thaw, the flood, the upstart Spring.

Thank God our time is now,
when wrong comes up to face us,
everywhere, never to leave us,
till we take the longest stride of soul
we ever took.

Affairs are now soul-sized.
The enterprise is exploration into God.

Where are you making for?

It takes so many thousand years to wake,
but will you wake, for pity’s sake!
_ _ _

About the author of the above poem:

http://www.thelionspart.co.uk/projects/sleep.htm

Christopher Fry is 94 this year.   Undoubtedly one of England’s great 20th
Century verse dramatists, his wonderful plays are distinguished for their
rich language and profound comments on the human condition.

<…>

“We were talking even then, as we are talking, with greater instancy, now,
of the likelihood of war.  And I think we realized then, as we certainly now
believe, that progress is the growth of vision: the increased perception of
what makes for life and what makes for death.  I have tried — as you know,
not altogether successfully — to find a way for comedy to say something of
this, since comedy is an essential part of men’s understanding.

“In ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’, I have tried to make a more simple statement,
though in a complicated design where each of the four men is seen through
the sleeping thoughts of the others, and each, in his own dream, speaks as
at heart he is, not as he believes himself to be.  In the later part of
Corporal Adam’s dream, the dream changes to a state of thought entered into
by all the sleeping men, as though, sharing their prison life, they shared,
for a few moments of the night, their sleeping life also.”

[From an open letter to Robert Gittings from Christopher Fry, 1951.]

In his early days, Christopher Fry was a schoolmaster, actor and theatre
director.  He first came to prominence with a one-act jeu d’esprit, ‘A
Phoenix Too Frequent’, and a religious play about St. Cuthman entitled ‘A
Boy with a Cart’ (1937).  In 1948 he wrote ‘Thor, with Angels’ (Canterbury
Festival), and in 1950 ‘The Firstborn’, with Alec Clunes as Moses.  It was,
however, with the production, first at the Arts, and later at the Globe
Theatre, in 1949, of ‘The Lady’s Not For Burning’ that Fry sprang into the
limelight, with John Gielgud heading a distinguished cast.  His next play,
written for Laurence Olivier, was ‘Venus Observed’ (1950), and in the same
year he translated Anouilh’s L’Invitation au Chateau as ‘Ring Around the
Moon’, with Paul Scofield in the dual role of the twin hero and villain.  In
1954, Edith Evans starred in ‘The Dark is Light Enough’.  In 1955, Fry then
translated ‘The Lark’, about Joan of Arc, and ‘Curtmantle’, about Henry II
and Beckett, had its f!
irst p
roduction.  ‘A Yard the Sun’ was performed at Nottingham in 1970.  In 1986
he wrote ‘One Thing More, or Caedmon Construed’ and in 1999 a millennium
play for his old school in Bedford, ‘A Ringing of Bells’.

With ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’ (1951), Fry reverted to his earlier biblical
vein.  It  debuted at St. Thomas, Regent Street, in 1951, and after a long
initial tour has frequently been revived.

==================================
CERJ@igc.org            wilmerding@earthlink.net
——————————————-
John Wilmerding, Convener and List Manager
Coalition for Equity-Restorative Justice (CERJ)
217 High Street, Brattleboro, VT, USA
ZIP: 05301-6073         Phone: 1-802-254-2826
CERJ was founded in New York in May, 1997.
——————————————-
“Work together to reinvent justice using methods
that are fair; that conserve, restore, and even
create harmony, equity and good will in society.”
——————————————-
To join (or leave) the CERJ email list, kindly send
me an email message at wilmerding@earthlink.net
or at cerj@igc.org.  I’ll need your first & last name,
your email address, and your state, province or
country of residence.  Thank you!  — John W.
==================================

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:51:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary wrote >The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told
me the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others,
the first step is to meet eboga oneself.  This makes a lot of sense to me.
That’s why I am here.<

One person comes leaping to mind, whose name will not be mentioned here, who
promotes ibogaine and treatment with ibogaine incessently, but has never
once tried it himself. He promotes the heck out of it (he doesn’t act as a
provider or facilitator though), speaking out about it in every instance he
can, talking about it, pushing it on politicians and addicts and treatment
providers and authors and reporters and just about anyone else breathing-
but he hasn’t ever done it himself.
Does this make his promotion any less valid? Or is it “ok” for him to be
doing so even having not tried it himself? I like the fact that he is so
positive even without trying it, that he has decided just from seeing and
speaking with many who have tried it and liked it for one (or more)
reason(s) or other(s) that it’s worth it to him to promote- but not to try
it himself. And to me, that’s cool.
Were he providing it, perhaps I’d feel differently, prefering that anyone
actually working with me giving me such a drug would actually have more
experience and knows exactly what s/he is talking about from experience.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?

Dear Dr. Tom,
As soon as I sent the post I realized that I didn’t introduce myself.
I have been on the forum for almost 2 years but only recently started to
post.  I am considering meeting eboga because I want to heal my emotions and
live a life with more awareness/joy.  I simply don’t know if this is the way
for me to go.
I am apprenticing in an ayurveda clinic and there are some patients who
seek herbs, masssage, and spiritual counseling for alcohol and/or drug
related challenges.  I see on a day to day basis how herbs heal and it makes
perfect sense to me that nature has a remedy for addiction/psychospiritual
conflict.
The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told me
the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others, the
first step is to meet eboga oneself.  This makes a lot of sense to me.
That’s why I am here.
I feel that it’s only right for me to let you know who is asking you
pointed and personal questions…
Yours truly,
Mary

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:26:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, I have had those same thoughts in my head about giving up something that sucks but seems to be working at least a little bit. I’ve been on and off of methadone since 1985. I think if it was going to allow me a much better life it would have happened by now. I want so much more out of life. I’ve coasted along long enough. I’ve been able to keep a job, and help raise my son, and I’ve played some pretty cool gigs. All of it about half way numb to what it should really feel like. Up until this point I probably couldn’t have handled much more reality. But being around this list and interacting with the people here has put me much more firmly on the ground. Now if you look at that, it looks nuts, how could this merry group of sideways thinking Ibonauts help anybody ground themeless in reality. I don’t know but it happened. If I had not been made to wait for my treatment I probably wouldn’t have been ready for it. Everything that has held me up and made me research more has educated me better and gotten me closer to the point I am in now. Scared shitless and wondering if I’m doing the right thing.LOL I’m kidding but I am apprehensive about this but somehow I know its exactly what I need to do. When I’m through to the other side I want to help spread the word. I won’t be stopped. Only the Ibogaine can change my mind now so I guess we’ll see. I want to thank everybody for the kind words of encouragement and the advise I have gotten. I plan on not looking at the ‘puter till after I have done this so light a candle Friday night and have a good weekend. I’ll see yall after the walls come down.       Randy     PS Callie, somehow I know its coming for you too, soon. You can do it. Be ready.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:08:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I am Callie, a 45 year old Practical Nurse Methadone Maintenance patient since 1997.
I am hoping to experience Ibogaine before the year is over.
I love reading all the colorful, descriptive personal insights into Ibogaine but they are your personal insights as Ibogaine relates to you and probably some insights shared with you by patients and other Ibonauts.
You write from a very intellectual point of view.(IMHO)
Personally, I have a difficult time understanding what you are saying at all! I am sure it is just me. I do not understand all the symbolism (occult, cryptomasonic???!!!)
And, why do you refer to life as a cosmic chicken farm? Why do you call Ibogaine a seventh dimensional
plant ally? What is a mongo level of suffering?
You say, ” It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve got with the Eye. The Undrug.” I am positive That I do not ‘get’ it.
One more question please. What does this mean? “The human spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment, and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.” mean in regular, everyday language?
Dr. Tom, I am not trying to be smart ass. I bet you think I am! I just really don’t understand what you are saying.
I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The Matrix’.
The one thing you said that I understood, “None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks for all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.”

I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me to benefit.
Sincerely,
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world – beautiful email
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:56:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 9:25:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

But, on the offchance that
it encounters even the slightest bit of water, it
unfurls its fronds, transforms from brown to green,
and is reborn.  It repeats this process literally
hundreds of times during its lifespan.

Hi Julie,

Nature is full of death and rebirth, isn’t it? Perhaps that is where the storied of reincarnation and resurrection originated.  From people watching natural cycles.

BTW Thanks for the purple light. Are you getting Phil Dickean with me?

Horselover Not So Fat.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:50:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

The mental cravings returned rather quickly for me last time.  I am told that I will receive a larger dose than last time for my retreatment…and then can look at boosters if needed later.

I think Howard could probably answer more fully the technical issues around the metabolites better than me.:)

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: I am really scared- (was-doin’ really shitty- What Is I)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/2004 10:41:31 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who took
> ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the results,
> openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
> from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling me

That is what I see too and I am damn glad you guys are shootin’ straight.
I really want to get off Methadone. I want to have a realistic sense of what I am getting myself into though when I go for my Ibogaine treatment.
Honestly, at this point I am damn scared. I have been relatively ‘normal’ on my 110 mgs of Methadone the past few years. I maintain. I have a LOT of responsibility at home and also expend a BUNCH of energy daily assisting my significant other. If I have an ‘off ‘ day, I can’t just lie down and hope I get to feeling better. I HAVE to keep on keeping on.
I am really afraid of what will happen when my ‘security blanket’ is taken away!
But, and it is a BIG but, I WANT TO BE CLEAN AND DRUG FREE AND NORMAL! I want to feel okay. Like I said before I am scared and I don’t know what to do!
I am praying about it. I am asking for guidance and for signs. I plan to discuss this all with my Methadone counselor tomorrow but I already know what she is going to say! You all probably do too.
I will let you know for sure tomorrow.
Anyhow, thanks Preston, Sean and Dr. Tom. Hell, thanks everybody…..you all make this list very helpful!
Callie

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world – beautiful email
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:24:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean,

That was a cool email…I’m glad to hear you’re doing
better.  On the topic of resurrection: Recently I
ordered some detox products from an herbalist in
Holland, and they sent me a bonus, free gift: a Rose
of Jericho.

This amazing plant can be dormant for months in the
desert, blowing to and fro on the breezes, dry and
brittle like a tumbleweed.  But, on the offchance that
it encounters even the slightest bit of water, it
unfurls its fronds, transforms from brown to green,
and is reborn.  It repeats this process literally
hundreds of times during its lifespan.

hugs, good vibes, and purple light

Julie from Toronto(the T dot O),

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:54:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

:

.  It was suggested to me, for example, that I amy consider low level boosters of ibogaine if opiate or cocaine craving returns as the ibo metabolites dissipate over time.  I am not going to refuse such help in the name of sort of spiritual improvement.  It’s just part of the act, part of the show, part of life.

Sean

Hello Sean,
Sounds like your feeling a liitle better,good to see.
I am curious as to your experiences with Ibogaine.When you say,’when the metabolites dissipate over time,,,the craving returns.

Can I ask,when the cravings came back,was there any physical withdrawals at all,I mean after the Ibo’ wore off did you get any physical symtems come back,or was it purley mental craving?

How much done were you on(if any) and how long did the Ibo’ stay in your system before you felt like using again?

Forgive me if I have asked you this before.

Also,was there anything that happened when you got the urge to use,emotionaly,like,,,,did anyone upset you,,ect?

Thanks,and with smiles; Jasen.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:26:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On a lighter note so to speak, as a teenager I loved mescaline.   I thought it was great headache cure, better than aspirin. I dosed almost daily.  Funny but I got a headache every day around 5:00 which could only be helped I thought by mesc at 7:00.  Ah, youth.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:22:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 12:09:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
> > healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
> the
> > attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
> > mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of
things,
> > I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga)

Hi,

Actually I am naturally disinclined toward this kind of dualism where basically the mind/ego are split off against the “real” which is usually called the spiritual realm.

In my non dualistic world view, mind and ego are just as real or unreal as everything else.  So often the spiritual is set off in some kind of cosmic opposition to the ego. The ego becomes the enemy so to speak, the source of suffering.

From my reading of Buddhism, for example, the ego per se is not the cause of suffering. Attachment is.  So by little by little dying to the phenomenal world (or having an NDE type experience like ibogaine sometimes offers) we learn to gradually use our attachments and see the truth that all is passing, all is changing, there is nothing to cling to. This includes the ego/mind itself of course, that does make the ego an adversary, just another illusion. Like everything else in our world.

I am greatly impressed with the spiritual thinkers who speak of healing at various levels.  Sometimes venting, griping, telling one’s story so to speak, is just what is needed to bring about a healing. To in some way deny feelings in order to feel spiritual is in my opinion a type of denial.

Finally on a purely physical note, because that level is real-unreal too, we do really have these chemicals and synapses, etc., in our heads which can cause wild fluctuation in mood.  It was suggested to me, for example, that I amy consider low level boosters of ibogaine if opiate or cocaine craving returns as the ibo metabolites dissipate over time.  I am not going to refuse such help in the name of sort of spiritual improvement.  It’s just part of the act, part of the show, part of life.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:13:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I wrote the subject line, Madonna’s eighties hit Material Girl was playing in my head. Anyway, I spent the day reading Beal’s book The Ibogaine Story, as well as book on healing called, “Entering the Ghost River.”

As someone who has hailed from the secular humanist strain of Unitarianism, it has been along time since I have been open to the Gnostic thread of Beal’s book. Also, I have been very Western scientific concerning healing in general.

However, I had a dream Monday night, the first night after my stopping using again which really struck me.  In the dream, I came upon a new church near my home. I walked in. It was clearly a Catholic church, the religion of my childhood. It was Easter, and the congregation was singing, “Christ is risen today, alleluia.”

Then I woke up. Now I am not turning to Christianity or anything. (really I’m not), but I do see significance in the resurrection theme as it relates to my current situation of getting clean again after spending time in the tomb of heroin and crack. (BTW I did overdose twice during my relapse and was brought back, so I was literally “resurrected” in one sense.:) Next week I am taking the sacrament of ibogaine. I know that my old skeptical secular humanist self would never bother making connection like this, so something is changing.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And BTW Allison, stay strong through those treatments for the Hep. Are using marijuana, I have heard it helps.

That’s all folks
Sean

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 6:43:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dr. Tom,
As soon as I sent the post I realized that I didn’t introduce myself.  I have been on the forum for almost 2 years but only recently started to post.  I am considering meeting eboga because I want to heal my emotions and live a life with more awareness/joy.  I simply don’t know if this is the way for me to go.
I am apprenticing in an ayurveda clinic and there are some patients who seek herbs, masssage, and spiritual counseling for alcohol and/or drug related challenges.  I see on a day to day basis how herbs heal and it makes perfect sense to me that nature has a remedy for addiction/psychospiritual conflict.
The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told me the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others, the first step is to meet eboga oneself.  This makes a lot of sense to me.  That’s why I am here.
I feel that it’s only right for me to let you know who is asking you pointed and personal questions…
Yours truly,
Mary

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 5:46:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon, I have mushroom tea, a sub- psychedelic dose is good enough to take the
depression, also in combination with vitamin B6 , B12.
Only, the people who come here like the full trip dose, especially
They don’t get them at home.

It is something I like to put my mind to it.

Sara.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon f. [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: woensdag 29 september 2004 18:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I
saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

What dosages are commonly used for those applications?

What I’m wondering is if they’re useful for these things in
sub-psychedelic doses…

cause if you have to take enough mushrooms to make you “trip” to say, cure
a headache, I can’t see that as being a particularly practical medicine.
But it would be very interesting to find out that they have useful effects
at sub-psychedelic doses.

thanx =)

j0n

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 5:45:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston and MindVox;

“…This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I
get what you’re saying here. I guess what I’m saying in this reply is
that I’m not sure what your point is Tom. Overall I think your note is
being positive but I’m not sure. Is it? I mean, at some points you sound
angry and others you sound loving so I’m not exactly sure what you’re
saying Tom is my point.”

I guess I am conflicted and in describing ibogaine I express anger and
love and uncertainty in my post, as they co-exist within me these days
about many social “realities”. Sorry if that confuses you or others. My
point was just that ibogaine seems to be an incredible, unique tool for
enabling self reflections and change in the lives of many who have tried
it, that I have learned from. In asking that we talk about  “what it is”
I seek comments from others on the list to further inform me about this
plant medicine.

Clearly there are positive joyous reasons to love our lives, and anger
responses, in me anyway, come with perceptions of all the anti-joy and
negative forces maintained in force against these positve, loving
possibilities. Personally, drug addiction isn’t one of the good guys in
“my” reality. So finding and experiencing a botanical medicine that
seems to be uniquely helpful with both addiction and self destructive
habitual behavior brought me to this list. The experiences of members
are interesting to me, and the comments from them were solicited by my not
altogether positive post.

I enjoyed your salute to the positive aspects in your life that you
listed, which might have been worth the annoyance of my confusing post.
I agree that telling you what you must “get” from Iboga would be an
arrogance that I wouldn’t appreciate either. Sorry you read it that way.
I don’t see my post as imposing my interpretation of reality on you,
tho. Even before any ibogaine insights, I know I couldn’t do that even
if I wanted to, which I don’t.

People on this list are sharing intimate details about what is tough or
painful or blocked in their life. I find the overall compassion ratio
among us refreshing and precious. In asking about uses and effects of
ibogaine, I want to hear what works for people with problems that I
don’t have, at this time.

I do have an agenda, in asking about “what is ibogaine?”. I hope that
the realities of those more experienced with these challenges or
experienced in ways I have not had to become, will share good stuff.
These ideas will improve my understanding in how to use the Eye more
wisely and appropriately with my clients, patients, and in my own life.
This seems to be the case.

If you got the impression that I wanted to impose an
interpretation upon you, please accept my sincere apologies.

I have observed some changes in your narrative writing, Preston, since
your sessions.  Maybe others can confirm or comment on that. I sense a
broader range of imagery and ease of empathy in your narratives, maybe a
more emotive and hopeful tone. I couldn’t lay that as tribute to the
ibogaine, perhaps a lessened intake of other things, or life
achievements elsewhere in your life, a better editor, I couldn’t say. I
appreciate your growth as a writer, tho, and likewise your postings on
MindVox that pertain to getting past addiction and despair. I’ll try to
get my own postings less confusing and to be percieved as less imposing.

Dr. Tom

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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 12:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

What dosages are commonly used for those applications?

What I’m wondering is if they’re useful for these things in
sub-psychedelic doses…

cause if you have to take enough mushrooms to make you “trip” to say, cure
a headache, I can’t see that as being a particularly practical medicine.
But it would be very interesting to find out that they have useful effects
at sub-psychedelic doses.

thanx =)

j0n

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 12:09:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tom wrote >To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

And I just thought of something- how could a “drug” (iboga- or the Eye)
“show” us how “false and transient ALL drugged feelings are” na dyet have
some of us believe it? I guess I have to admit to confusion about this one,
in that what I experienced on ibogaine was the result of a drug interacting
with my own thoughts, whether we want to call it by that appellation or not-
ibogaine is a drug, whether “different” than other drugs or not- itsa drug.
So are you saying that what ibogaine- or the Eye- showed you is wrong or
false? Or is that particular drugged feeling honest and true but ALL OTHER
DRUGS’ resulting FEELINGS wrong and false? As noted, I’m confused here. And,
not entirely in agreement with you I guess.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:40 AM
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <tomo7@starband.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions.<

There’s a fine line between “griping,” and “reporting,” “venting,” and
“giving voice through printed word my current thoughts after recently
taking
ibogaine twice.”

Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice.<

Just want it pointed out (by I guess) that I’m not “disappointed,” I’m
merely (merely?) pointing out where I myself stand mentally (and
physically)
at almost 6 and 4 weeks post-ibo sessions.

To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

I guess Iboga shows us each and everyone different things, eh?

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?<

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
the
attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of
things,
I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga)
to
“bum me out” in any way anyway.

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.<

I don’t hear that you are “slamming” anyone at this point. But I do see
what
seems to me you putting your own interpretation onto my reality and
experience. What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who
took
ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the
results,
openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling
me
I
don’t “get” what I’ve “got with the Eye.” Un-drug? Cool, glad that’s
what
You Got. That isn’t even remotely what I got Tom, I tell you in friendly
fashion with a smile.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly.<

Well, considering what you listed, no, there’s not. But then, I think of
V’s
soft skin and loving smile, I think of my beautiful 10 cats and how much
they love me and I them, I think of my new book, I think of going to a
cool
dance this Friday, I think of all my friends and relatives who love and
care
about me and likewise me them, I think about this list and the DrugWar
list,
I think of all the protestors in the streets calling for a nicer world
view,
I think about living in Paris and Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I think of
Sarasota beaches, I think of my old basset hound, I think of all the
great
music, I think of all the great psychedelics and other substances given
us
by the earth (and really, when we get right down to it, as I was
discussing
with someone else yesterday, what is “un-natural”? Not a single thing on
the
planet, not even the “synthetics” as they are “created” by wo/man and
nothing we can do on this planet ever is “unnatural”- nothing
whatsoever,
in
my own view of things that is) I think of V’s Dad who once hated me but
now
brags about me at his high-powered Wall Street investment firm, I think
about my parents coming around about the whole War on Some Drugs and
Users
thing, I think of Sara and the folk in Mexico and Canada and elsewhere
(this’ll have to cover all those place it ain’t exactly legal) giving
ibogaine and other powerful psychedelics to people seeking change, I
think
of Howard unselfishly sharing with me his knowlege and ideas, I think of
Patrick sending me the picture that turned into my newest tattoo, I
think
of
sex (although I sorta already did that at the beginning of all this
thinking, only obliquely), I think of all the things I still want to see
and
experience, and then I’m sure that there is plenty to feel “warm and
fuzzy”
about, even if I don’t always focus on those things and lots more. If I
focus only on what you point out here, heck yeah, I’d be depressed all
the
time instead of only a lot of the time lately.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use
for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.<

This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I get
what
you’re saying here.
I guess what I’m saying in this reply is that I’m not sure what your
point
is Tom. Overall I think your note is being positive but I’m not sure. Is
it?
I mean, at some points you sound angry and others you sound loving so
I’m
not exactly sure what you’re saying Tom is my point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better,
longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling
of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and
doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come
before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?
Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the
best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda.
Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in
3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take
off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in
your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in
silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what
you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited
database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The
human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead
these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles,
designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition
deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well
it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most
of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to.
The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking
up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent
Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening
jello
of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us
they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello
mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All
facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go
into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use
for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations
of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience
the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for
those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired
for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as
opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will
Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for
them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of
cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks
for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 11:40:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <tomo7@starband.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning and
value to his opinions.<

There’s a fine line between “griping,” and “reporting,” “venting,” and
“giving voice through printed word my current thoughts after recently
taking
ibogaine twice.”

Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice.<

Just want it pointed out (by I guess) that I’m not “disappointed,” I’m
merely (merely?) pointing out where I myself stand mentally (and
physically)
at almost 6 and 4 weeks post-ibo sessions.

To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

I guess Iboga shows us each and everyone different things, eh?

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?<

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
the
attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of things,
I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga) to
“bum me out” in any way anyway.

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.<

I don’t hear that you are “slamming” anyone at this point. But I do see
what
seems to me you putting your own interpretation onto my reality and
experience. What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who took
ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the results,
openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling me
I
don’t “get” what I’ve “got with the Eye.” Un-drug? Cool, glad that’s what
You Got. That isn’t even remotely what I got Tom, I tell you in friendly
fashion with a smile.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly.<

Well, considering what you listed, no, there’s not. But then, I think of
V’s
soft skin and loving smile, I think of my beautiful 10 cats and how much
they love me and I them, I think of my new book, I think of going to a
cool
dance this Friday, I think of all my friends and relatives who love and
care
about me and likewise me them, I think about this list and the DrugWar
list,
I think of all the protestors in the streets calling for a nicer world
view,
I think about living in Paris and Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I think of
Sarasota beaches, I think of my old basset hound, I think of all the great
music, I think of all the great psychedelics and other substances given us
by the earth (and really, when we get right down to it, as I was
discussing
with someone else yesterday, what is “un-natural”? Not a single thing on
the
planet, not even the “synthetics” as they are “created” by wo/man and
nothing we can do on this planet ever is “unnatural”- nothing whatsoever,
in
my own view of things that is) I think of V’s Dad who once hated me but
now
brags about me at his high-powered Wall Street investment firm, I think
about my parents coming around about the whole War on Some Drugs and Users
thing, I think of Sara and the folk in Mexico and Canada and elsewhere
(this’ll have to cover all those place it ain’t exactly legal) giving
ibogaine and other powerful psychedelics to people seeking change, I think
of Howard unselfishly sharing with me his knowlege and ideas, I think of
Patrick sending me the picture that turned into my newest tattoo, I think
of
sex (although I sorta already did that at the beginning of all this
thinking, only obliquely), I think of all the things I still want to see
and
experience, and then I’m sure that there is plenty to feel “warm and
fuzzy”
about, even if I don’t always focus on those things and lots more. If I
focus only on what you point out here, heck yeah, I’d be depressed all the
time instead of only a lot of the time lately.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.<

This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I get
what
you’re saying here.
I guess what I’m saying in this reply is that I’m not sure what your point
is Tom. Overall I think your note is being positive but I’m not sure. Is
it?
I mean, at some points you sound angry and others you sound loving so I’m
not exactly sure what you’re saying Tom is my point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better,
longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?
Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda. Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in 3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited
database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The
human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles,
designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to.
The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening jello
of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us
they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All
facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go
into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will
Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for
them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks
for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 29, 2004 at 10:02:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
Callie is right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You are the codependent.  I hope you don’t have to go all the way down with the ex to get it.  I’ve been there. I know. Your last post was as if you were saying, OK, thanks for the help but I just gotta do myself in cause I love this here  ex bad boy of mine sooooooooo much.  Hannah, do you think the ex would be there taking care of your needs when and if push comes to shove???????  My friends talked to me endlessly – but the only thing that really did it for me was when I was willing to see my fantasy.
With love,
Mary

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:24:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.<

LOL, Sara, we’re lookin’, we’re lookin’ but we sure ain’t findin’.
;-((
Guess I’ll have to keep focusing on those other things I mentioned until I
do find.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

S.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:33:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You obviously love your animals and thats only got to be good.  Spend time with them, enjoy them,  forget the bullshit cleaning stuff.  Whos going to remember that you cleaned your flat every week or whatever, or more important will you.  Or will you remember the walks you had with your dogs and horse etc.  Enjoy them and let them enjoy your company.  Best wishes.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:43:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!

Thanks Mary 🙂

After spending the past 5yrs (I know it doesn’t sound long but I’m only 23) chasing H and letting the rest of my life disappear down the drain I’m now interested in so many things-it seems like there’s so much out there, so many totally wierd and wonderful things!  I haven’t really settled into anything if you know what I mean.  I’ve been reading bits on Buddhism, meditation etc etc. I’m trying to practise visualisation.  I’m trying to get back into Yoga.  Y’know when you discover something and it just seems so right?  I’ve always been interested in Wicca and that feels really right.  I’ve gotta life coach.  Since I was a little kid I’ve loved animals especially horses and dreamed of being a horse whisperer like Monty roberts if you’ve heard of him?  Now my life coach is trying to get me funded to go on some courses and I’m going to meet a local one next week to see if I can work voluntarily to gain experience!  (I’m trying really hard not to let my excitement bubble over coz I’m still kinda expecting it to all fuck up in my usual pessimistic way!)  I’ve had a friend’s pony to look after for a couple of months and that’s been wonderful as I’ve been riding most days (I didn’t ride the whole time I was into my gear) I’m just gutted now as I have to give him back and I love him so much and I won’t see him again :-()

So why have I been dabbling again.  Today’s Day 3 again but I have a Sub script so I’m not really ill.  But I feel really angry.  I don’t even know why I’m writing all this, just that I have to speak even to no one.  I’ve got 2 friends staying in me & my boyfs tiny 1bedroom flat and i’m starting to go mad-cleaning up after 3 men.  I feel really tearful lke my insides wanna explode.  My dogs nagging me for a walk and barking at nothing. Now my landlords turned up!

When things get tuff I run back to gear like a baby. I MUST NOT…  It doesn’t help that one of my friends staying is my old partner in crime so we’ve been fucking up together.  He’s in the other room n I can’t talk to him cos I know I’m not strong enough right now to say no.  AAAAH!

I’m hopefully going to open university in Feb and I’m dreading it.  I only went to Uni I now realise coz my parents wanted me to.  I’ve always been the black sheep of our family (on my 21st BDay a family friend got my a black toy sheep as a joke) always in trouble, always the mardy one coz I’ve always been depressed (which doesnt exist to them)  They hated me, I got kicked out, my mum and I nearly tore each others hearts out!  So I wanted to do something good, make them happy for once.  And what did I do?  Get into H and get shit loads in debt and never finish Uni.  So they paid hundreds, porbably thousands in fees for me just to flunk out.  I was looking forward to completeing my degree (Its in Psychology!!!) but now I’m terrified.  The more I think about it the more I realise I haven’t got a chance and I’m just gonna fail again.  I told my mum about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me “They’re just dreams Hannah”

Why an I writing all this?  I feel like I have no identity.  I feel scared all the time…  I give up now this is just getting to self-pitying!  I must learn to think less and do more…

Sorru ecveryone I meant this to be a happy post – a ‘look how much changes when you give up the gear’ post.  But maybe nothing changes.  Nice people are giving me chances but I’m just gonna fuck up again.  I might aswell have a hit right now! NO, no that was a crap joke.  I just feel bad and worried and I have no one to talk to.  No one that understands or who will even let me finish-normally they just jump in and tell me I’m being an idiot!

Right…pulll myself together…I’m going to check a few emails, walk my dog who appears to be bursting for a wee and ride my pony and forget about all the shit I’ve gotta do like clean my flat etc.

Not sure what this rant meant, forget it and carry on! 🙂

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:32:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People care even if you don’t know it or we don’t know you personally so to speak.  Am sure everyone on this list has been through similar situations.  Just keep telling yourself that you are a good person, you have cleaned up before, you can do it again.  Believe in you.
I know its easier said than done but lots of love and good wishes.   Allison.  Its so hard to put things into words at times but hope you know it is with all good intentions.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 27 September 2004 11:19:44 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

In a message dated 9/26/04 5:21:07 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week. Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now. Away, where I think it will give me better results. I
am on the verge of tears right now. Very down. Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way. I am sinking fast.
>>

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no reason
to not take your HIV medications. If Ibogaine were an approved medication you
would most likely not be having these problems. Too bad your doctor can’t
hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.

Take care of yourself.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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.

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:25:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you think the reward type thinking is part of the addiction behaviour.  I know we would reward or treat ourselves on birthdays, special days etc.  but then we somehow managed to make special days to fit if you know what I mean.  And of course special days couldn’t just be one day they had to stretch a bit or a lot as the case may be, or money and availability decreed.   Allison
PS Have been trying to keep up with whats going on but have been real tired and not up to a lot.  Have just done my first month on interferon treatment for HepC .  They tell me it gets better and I sure hope so cos feel like shit at the moment but am hanging in there.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 7:12:39 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world. Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests. It doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I was
using (whatever it was at the time). Not many people talk about this. Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life – the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take something
– that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process. Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

> Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
> I think many of us are.
> I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
> I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
> has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
> That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
> feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
> COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
> longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
> experienced.
> (This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
> already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
> in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
> seen or heard.)
> I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
> I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
> much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
> have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
> providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
> gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
> the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
> this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
> should get aftercare friend.”
> 😉
> I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
> not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
> book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
> floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
> Mood wise I mean.
> Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
> something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
> I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
> often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
> ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
> least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
> really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
> continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
> it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
> substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
> while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
> I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
> So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
> can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
> In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
> to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
> is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
> anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
> always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
> work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.
>
> Peace and love and respect and care and more love
> Preston
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: UUSEAN@aol.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
>
>
> \
> Hey list,
>
> Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
> again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
> mad, after a 60 hour work week. Have work tomorrow.
>
> The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
> about three weeks from now. Away, where I think it will give me better
> results. I am on the verge of tears right now. Very down. Looking for a
> ray of hope. I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
> suicide I don’t know.
>
> Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way. I am sinking fast.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 3:16:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi  Martian,

It is safe to use both at the same time, but I usually wait four five days after the Ibo. Trip.normally you get them in a small box fresh which is the right dose,
You can see if they turn a little bluish then they are more potent.

S.
Van: Leah martian [mailto:martian_9@graffiti.net] 
Verzonden: woensdag 29 september 2004 1:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Sarah,
I’m curious….how do you know what dose of mushrooms to give someone post Ibogaine, and at what hour mark would you consider safe to dose the mushrooms?
martian
:)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:58:01 +0200
To: 
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

S.

Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC
www.ibogatherapyhouse.org

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 3:16:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:41:42 -0700 tomo7@starband.net wrote:
The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening
jello of our adaptive habitual behavior patterns.

It seemed like my sense of self quivered like jello for two weeks before
I seemed to reach something firmly familiar in myself.

Since we are our patterns, seeing how arbitrary they are can be disquieting.

The Eye experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the
ideal jello mold for you to pour into for your souls best life
preference.

That free will thing.. patterns with free will?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 29, 2004 at 2:07:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:07:58 -0700 Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
If you hold the root bark in your mouth for an hour you will not
taste it anymore

How does food taste when you can eat again?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Where to buy Ibogaine pills in Europe ?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 10:45:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis!
Welcome to mindvox Ibogaine list.
There are no wrong questions here as far as I know!
My name is Callie and I have been an opiate addict 25 plus years. I have been on Methadone since 1997.I have not experienced Ibogaine yet but I am planning and it seems my turn may be coming up soon!
There are very many qualified people here that will answer your technical questions.
I do not have the knowledge or experience to share right now. I can tell you I have been amazed by what I have read and experiences I have heard here on list. I am not going to name qualified folks cuz I will leave someone out. You will soon know who they are by just reading these posts.
Here are a couple of good links I started out with. There is a LOT of info. If you are like me you will be learning everyday!

http://ibogaine.co.uk/

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/index.shtml

Hope to see you posting a lot. BTW, you may have to cut and paste the above url’s.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 28, 2004 at 10:27:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,
Hi!
I really saw red flags when I read your last post!
You really need to get some space between you and your ex! Feeling protective of him is rationalization bullshit! I am really sorry if this seems too raw and bluntly honest but I really seen red lags when I read that post.
Also, if you are like me, you will continue to use if you remain around him. You are powerless to say no. You might once or twice or even three times but you will use with him again if you are close to him!!!
Your nice boyfriend does not deserve this I bet. You are both betraying his trust and I bet he would feel like you cheated on him if he found out, even if there was no sex. It is emotional cheating.
I know you say that he is unpredictable and self destructive but that is not your stuff! Even if he was your significant other it would not be something you could change. He has to change that. Two self-destructive people do not need to hang out together. You will both go down the tubes!
Good luck Hannah! Do you have some chick friends you could stay with awhile?
This is a life and death situation. (For both of you!) I am very concerned for you.
Keep us posted and try to remove yourself IMMEDIATELY!!
A chick friend, Callie

From: “Leah martian” <martian_9@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 7:28:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sarah,
I’m curious….how do you know what dose of mushrooms to give someone post Ibogaine, and at what hour mark would you consider safe to dose the mushrooms?
martian
:)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:58:01 +0200
To: 
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

S.

Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC
www.ibogatherapyhouse.org


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Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! 
  
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:20:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/28/2004 6:51:46 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
When you shoot at people who like to kill they become non violent and swinging.

lol! Great imagination he has, huh? Tell him to keep that line of thought  and he will do well! Violence begets violence they say, so nonviolence begets nonviolence??? Makes sense to me!
Peace,  Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:15:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Dr. Tom. I would like to know more about your intellectual pursuits, education and/or experiences as it relates to ‘chemistry’. Obviously you need not answer me but I found much of what you stated….persuasive yet curious.

Regards,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:04:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll help Sara except you are asking for people who possess a degree or knowledge in that science or related, correct? Still, I’ll help any way I can.

Love,

Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:58:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

S.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Open Letter (draft) to Kerry/Edwards for D.C. info zap
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:47:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We are appealing for a higher-level review of our request for
clarification as to whether your platform language calling for
“increased treatment”  for drug addiction refers mostly to treatments
already in the SAMSHA pipeline, or whether it heralds a new, more
science-based commitment to explore research into more promising
approaches that could transform the way our society deals with its
drug problem.

During the Wisconsin primary, when Theresa Heinz Kerry came back and
asked for more literature  on these medications, we were
heartened–only to encounter a conventional wisdom among staffers
that the only forms treatment that could be specified in the platform
without losing votes to Bush were “mandatory drug courts and
mandatory urine testing.” (Neither one of which is treatment.)

Over the summer our affiliates faxed this headquarters from Florida,
North Carolina, Ohio, Michigan, Minneapolis, Iowa, Missouri,
Arkansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Oregon and Washington–all
key battlefield states–about the first generation  of broad-spectrum
addiction interrupters, derived from the African rainforest iboga
plant.

They understood that like many Americans, many folks in the
Kerry/Edwards campaign were simply unaware of this new class of
broad-spectrum pharmacotherapies for addiction that are NOT
maintenance drugs or blockers. A single dose or short course of
treatments with one of these alkaloids stops withdrawal and cravings
for opiates, nicotine, alcohol for months, or even years.  Currently,
there is NOTHING else available to treat crack or crystal meth
dependency BUT Ibogaine. Recently, the New York State Office of
Alcohol and Substance Abuse Services (OASAS) put up its own webpage
touting the semi-synthetic form “18 MC”, invented by Stanley Glick (a
regular recipient of NIDA research grants) at Albany Medical College.
18 Methoxycoronaridine has none of the objectionable  side-effects of
natural Ibogaine, is NOT scheduled, and is twice  as effective for
nicotine (and potentially stimulant) addiction. (Ibogaine is banned
in the U.S.–but legal almost everywhere else in the world, including
Mexico and Canada.)

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

While we can accept that advocating treatment, not prison, may seem
like a tough sell in this campaign, people who are not familiar with
our slice of the electorate just don’t really understand how
important replacement of imprisonment with non-coercive  treatment is
to our voters. The current platform language is  making it really
hard to generate the enthusiasm to go out and really stump for Kerry
among the one or two per cent of the electorate who voted for Ralph
Nader or Harry Brown in 2000 because of their strong public
opposition to the Drug War.

All we asked from the campaign was a fig leaf–something–we can take
back to our people to get them to vote for Kerry enthusiastically,
not just grudgingly, so that all their friends turn out and vote for
him as well. We need more than the wink and nudge routine we got from
Clinton.  ACT UP at least got Clinton to endorse needle exchange in
October of 1992–and that made a difference later.

Last week Christin Sewell, who works for Madhu Chugh your health
policy coordinator, told us the decision had been reached  not to
refer the matter to anyone with sufficient authority to issue a one
sentence statement. We cannot accept Ibogaine being swept under the
rug. Not are lives being lost, VOTES will be lost for Kerry in
November. Do you really want to throw away hundreds of votes in all
the states where organizers took the trouble to fax you–when the
race could be decided in New Mexico or Wisconsin by  a few hundred
votes?

What is needed with a breakthrough treatment like this is the kind of
bold White House initiative Richard Nixon displayed in implementing
methadone maintenance over the objections of the nay-sayers and “not
invented here” cadres of established bureaucracy. That initiative
should start with a commitment to order a review of the status of the
iboga alkoids BEFORE November 2, when it can still do some good.

If you can come out for stem-cell research, you can come out for the
next generation of drugs to treat addiction, and turn the promise of
treatment on demand into reality. Help us get the more than one
million people, who voted for Nader because he was for a progressive
drug policy, to vote for John Kerry.

Yours Respectfully,

Dana Beal, co-author, THE IBOGAINE STORY

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:41:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better, longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out? Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda. Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in 3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to. The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening jello of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them.  They are here for their own lessons of cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak.  Thanks for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 2:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im gonna have to look into this. My therapist is getting ready to screen me for PTSD.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar]  Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:16:46 -0400

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Persistent scientists believe ecstasy, psilocybin can help people
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute, the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug
Administration to approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics.
The movement seems to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the
FDA and the Drug Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to
three clinical trials testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and
several more are on deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’ hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it, and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder of the Heffter Research Institute, http://www.heffter.org/ a
scientific organization that organizes and funds trials involving
psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than the
one medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the National Institute on Drug Abuse http://www.nida.nih.gov/ and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president of
MAPS. http://www.maps.org/  The roadblock with marijuana has centered on
supply. A government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana
the government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of
it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ — led to the launch of the first FDA-approved
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html clinical trial
testing MDMA as a therapy (in this case for post-traumatic stress disorder)
since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital, presented
his proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches,
http://www.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~headache/cluster.html which are rare but brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain; the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement. He now runs clusterbusters.com, where he communicates with about
200 other cluster-headache victims who have tried psilocybin to relieve
their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in the form of questionnaires,
which Halpern can present to Harvard’s institutional review board.

Studies http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_history.shtml
starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results treating cluster
and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold decide to try a
psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders including
depression, alcoholism
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713 and addiction to
other drugs like heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA
http://www.maps.org/mdma/index.html#history on his patients in the early
’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first synthesized by Merck in
1912) along with Alexander Shulgin,
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/shulginbio.htm who became a cult
figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife, Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug, and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html drug, the highest level of
illegal drug in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing
ecstasy, including doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer
stopped prescribing it for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year later,
the researchers retracted
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html the study because
they discovered they had accidentally used methamphetamine instead of
ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead
to perform a study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients.
He got permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When after
several years http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/mdmaucla.html neither the
FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed his proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can be
used safely and effectively.”

Related Stories
DEA Accedes to Ecstasy Test Mar. 02, 2004
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Why Ecstasy Researcher Is Smiling Sep. 12, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,60389,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Ecstasy Study Botched, Retracted Sep. 05, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Getting the FDA Hooked on Ecstasy Dec. 10, 2001
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,48547,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Lucy In the Sky, With Therapists Nov. 09, 2000
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39796,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Where to buy Ibogaine pills in Europe ?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:48:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am new to this Mailing-list and I apologize if I ask the wrong questions.

– Is Ibogaine realy effective for detox of addictions ?
– Where can I buy Ibogaine pills in Europe.

Thank you
Francis

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:16:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Persistent scientists believe ecstasy, psilocybin can help people
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute, the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug
Administration to approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics.
The movement seems to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the
FDA and the Drug Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to
three clinical trials testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and
several more are on deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’ hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it, and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder of the Heffter Research Institute, http://www.heffter.org/ a
scientific organization that organizes and funds trials involving
psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than the
one medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the National Institute on Drug Abuse http://www.nida.nih.gov/ and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president of
MAPS. http://www.maps.org/  The roadblock with marijuana has centered on
supply. A government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana
the government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of
it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ — led to the launch of the first FDA-approved
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html clinical trial
testing MDMA as a therapy (in this case for post-traumatic stress disorder)
since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital, presented
his proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches,
http://www.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~headache/cluster.html which are rare but brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain; the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement. He now runs clusterbusters.com, where he communicates with about
200 other cluster-headache victims who have tried psilocybin to relieve
their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in the form of questionnaires,
which Halpern can present to Harvard’s institutional review board.

Studies http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_history.shtml
starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results treating cluster
and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold decide to try a
psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders including
depression, alcoholism
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713 and addiction to
other drugs like heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA
http://www.maps.org/mdma/index.html#history on his patients in the early
’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first synthesized by Merck in
1912) along with Alexander Shulgin,
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/shulginbio.htm who became a cult
figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife, Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug, and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html drug, the highest level of
illegal drug in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing
ecstasy, including doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer
stopped prescribing it for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year later,
the researchers retracted
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html the study because
they discovered they had accidentally used methamphetamine instead of
ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead
to perform a study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients.
He got permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When after
several years http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/mdmaucla.html neither the
FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed his proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can be
used safely and effectively.”

Related Stories
DEA Accedes to Ecstasy Test Mar. 02, 2004
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Why Ecstasy Researcher Is Smiling Sep. 12, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,60389,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Ecstasy Study Botched, Retracted Sep. 05, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Getting the FDA Hooked on Ecstasy Dec. 10, 2001
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,48547,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Lucy In the Sky, With Therapists Nov. 09, 2000
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39796,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 28, 2004 at 12:05:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou Julie, Jason and Mary-you all made such a big difference!  I thought I was just rambling rubbish but maybe I do need to listen to myself and stop worrying about what other people think.  I can’t thank each of you enough-I nearly cried when I read your responses!  My boyf doesn’t use AT ALL and hates the stuff, I got with him 3yrs ago and I was sposed to quit then!  He puts up with alot.  He’s a sweetheart.  I hear you all about my friend whos staying-its a very complex situation.  If my boyf knew what we got up to together (with drugs) he’d kick him out for sure but he’s my Ex and I’ve always felt really protective over him.  In the end I’d rather end up with a big habit again rather than see him on the streets.  He’s really self-destructive and unpredictable and I’m scared what he’d do…

Anyway thanks again, honestly you really touched me and gave me faith in the world.  I can’t thank you enough!
Lots of love Hannah

PS: Jason, I’ve got ‘Wicca, a guide for the solitary practitioner’ and ‘Living Wicca’ by S.C. They’re great books-they’ve really inspired me!
—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!

Dear Hannah,
Does your boyfriend use?  Does your relationship with your boyfriend make you want to use or make you want to not use?
All of your dreams are doable.  You can be a horse whisperer.  You can learn all about the magic in the world and have a great relationship with your Mum and anything else you want.  But just as a horse (substitute dog, person, you name it) needs the right conditions to thrive,  so does Hannah!
You mentioned in your post that you don’t know the meaning of your rant.  What I get is that you want to follow a dream, you feel bad about having disappointed people, and you are aware that you are not strong enough to resist using around certain “friends”.
Hannah,  you will need optimal conditions to make your dreams happen.  Who we share ourselves with on a daily basis whether it be lover, friends, family – these are the main energy drains or energy supports.  Think about how you can set yourself up for the best possible result.
Love,
Mary

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 7:51:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My son who is a 6 years old, is very inventive,
He found a new war device, when you shoot at people who like to kill they become non violent and swinging.
It is a kind of hypnosis device, he just has to find the right frequency. who can help the kid?
From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! I’ve learned
Date: September 28, 2004 at 5:37:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ive learned ….
life after heroin is like a butter knife – after ridding on the edge of a
razor

dUll,,..

I’ve learned….
That life is like a roll of  toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end,
the
faster it goes.

I’ve  learned….
That we should be glad God doesn’t give us everything we ask  for

I’ve learned….
That money doesn’t buy class.

I’ve  learned….
That it’s those small daily happenings that make life so  spectacular.

I’ve learned…
That under everyone’s hard shell is  someone who wants to be appreciated
and
loved.

I’ve learned….
That  the Lord didn’t do it all in one day. What makes me think I can?

I’ve  learned….
That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.

I’ve  learned….
That when you plan to get even with someone, you are only letting  that
person continue to hurt you.

I’ve learned….
That love, not  time, heals all wounds.

I’ve learned…
That the easiest way for me to  grow as a person is to surround myself
with
people smarter than I  am.

I’ve learned….
That everyone you meet deserves to be greeted  with a smile.

I’ve learned….
That no one is perfect until you fall  in love with them.

I’ve learned….
That life is tough, but I’m tougher.

I’ve  learned…
That opportunities are never lost; someone will take the ones you  miss.

I’ve learned….
That when you harbor bitterness, happiness will  dock elsewhere.

I’ve learned…
That I wish I could have told those I  cared about that I love them one
more
time before they passed away.

I’ve  learned….
That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because  tomorrow he
may
have to eat them.

I’ve learned….
That a smile is an  inexpensive way to improve your looks.

I’ve learned….
That I can’t  choose how I feel, but I can choose what I do about it.

I’ve  learned….
That everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the  happiness
and growth occurs while you’re climbing it.

I’ve  learned…
That it is best to give advice in only two circumstances; when it  is
requested and when it is a life threatening situation.

I’ve  learned….
That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get  done.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 28, 2004 at 5:07:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you hold the root bark in your mouth for an hour you will not taste it
anymore then you can eat more of it as much as you can,
I agree with you, the root bark extract is longer lasting then HCL.
Very soon I will be experimenting with homeopathic Iboga.
I would like to find out if it can stop the “crash”.and other finding.

“As you think, so is your world.

The reality that you have

is a replica of your thoughts.

If you do not like your world,

you must change your thoughts.” Seth

with love,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: dinsdag 28 september 2004 9:03
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and
the trip

Root bark tasted like running into a thornbush naked. Liquid root bark
extract (black in color) was like a violent sunburn on the inside of
my stomach. Indra extract (looked like American brown sugar) is slower
onset and longer-lasting than HCl, more wobbly legs and trails and low
blood sugar.  But the main variable is oneself. My best experience was
on a low dose (estimated < 5 mg/kg HCl equivalent) of the rootbark herbal
extract evaporated to tar and put in capsules. Ibogaine seems to slow
everything down, and the longer you stay slowed-down the more you can
get from it. It’s so easy to run off with the first cup of joy rather
than discover how to remain at the spigot. Which is a euphemism for ya
gotta do tha woik. Look for something good to do, for yourself, for someone
else. Take some criticism, see if you hurt people or help hurt them,
and think about it.

What if you didn’t have a history, could choose freely? You’re a bunch
of molecules clumping along – with bunches of choices. Who gets to make
them?

A bunch of hopped-up iboganauts on the net? A plant that’s even worth
(peace, o iboga being)?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Longitudinal study of injectors: peak mortality at 6-8 years.
Date: September 28, 2004 at 5:06:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: Longitudinal study of injectors: peak mortality at 6-8 years.

Mortality risk among new onset injection drug users. Vlahov D, Wang C,
Galai N, Bareta J, Mehta SH, Strathdee SA, Nelson KE. Addiction (2004)
99:946-954

Dear Colleagues,

This important and elegant piece of research demonstrates several
crucial features of drug use in a group of 256 ‘early’ injecting drug
users over a 12 year period. Subjects were recruited from a variety of
sources, mostly word-of-mouth in Baltimore, USA, all with a history of
less than 2 years since first injecting drugs. The study’s end point was
death yet several other important findings on the natural history of
drug use are also revealed.

At recruitment 70% were male, 94% were African-American and mean age was
30. HIV rate was 22%. There were 90% currently injecting, 25% more than
once daily. Just 25% had ever had drug addiction treatment, only 2% on
methadone maintenance treatment (MMT). The authors state that ‘needle
sharing and shooting gallery use were not uncommon’.

With 69 known deaths among the 256 during the 12 year study period, the
overall mortality rate was 3.3 per 100 patient years. Thus on average,
over 3% of the sample died each year of the twelve. Yet the rate was not
at all even, showing a peak at 6 to 8 years which was around 8 times the
‘expected’ US mortality. At 2, 4, 10 and 12 years from recruitment, the
mortality figures were about 4 times that expected for the same sex/age
controls. These figures in turn were about 2 to 4 times the actual
Baltimore City mortality data which appear to be worse than elsewhere in
the country.

These findings are surprising as there is neither an early nor a late
peak of mortality as some had suspected, but a higher risk of death
around 6 to 8 years from initial injecting with levelling out again
after that. Even if the HIV cases are excluded, the peaks and other
trends persist, but with less accentuation.

Follow-up rates at 5 and 10 years were ~75% and ~60%. The researchers
found at the 5 (and 10) year follow up (respectively) that 54% (48%)
were still injecting, 5.6% (5.7%) heroin alone; 15.7% (11.3%) cocaine
alone; 79% (70%) alternating cocaine and heroin. Important to note is
that fully half of the subjects had ceased injecting. About 9% were in
treatment, 3% (6%) on MMT, 6% (3%) abstinence based. Self reported
health rating of ‘good’ or better was reported by 82% at 5 years and 94%
at 10 years. Needless to say, these figures exclude the large numbers
who had dropped out or died.

It is a tragic reality of the American health care system that it took
ten years for methadone treatment to become available for 6.3% of the
sample (originally 2% and 3.1% at 5 years). Knowing that more than 75%
of the 256 were heroin users, the uptake of methadone and abstinence
based treatments seem very low and probably reflect the lack of
treatment available in Baltimore as well as the low socio-economic
status of many of the subjects in this study. The death rates of MMT
patients is generally less than 1% per annum. If only the other good
citizens of Baltimore had acted on the impressive economic good sense of
funding methadone and other treatments for addictions, many of the
deaths reported here would have been avoided (and household insurance
premiums would probably have been lower).

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

Vlahov D, Wang C, Galai N, Bareta J, Mehta SH, Strathdee SA, Nelson KE.
Mortality risk among new onset injection drug users. Addiction (2004)
99:946-954

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:03:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Root bark tasted like running into a thornbush naked. Liquid root bark
extract (black in color) was like a violent sunburn on the inside of
my stomach. Indra extract (looked like American brown sugar) is slower
onset and longer-lasting than HCl, more wobbly legs and trails and low
blood sugar.  But the main variable is oneself. My best experience was
on a low dose (estimated < 5 mg/kg HCl equivalent) of the rootbark herbal
extract evaporated to tar and put in capsules. Ibogaine seems to slow
everything down, and the longer you stay slowed-down the more you can
get from it. It’s so easy to run off with the first cup of joy rather
than discover how to remain at the spigot. Which is a euphemism for ya
gotta do tha woik. Look for something good to do, for yourself, for someone
else. Take some criticism, see if you hurt people or help hurt them,
and think about it.

What if you didn’t have a history, could choose freely? You’re a bunch
of molecules clumping along – with bunches of choices. Who gets to make
them?

A bunch of hopped-up iboganauts on the net? A plant that’s even worth
(peace, o iboga being)?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:28:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:02:25 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at
least, it has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST
LIKE COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after
a much longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash
I’ve ever experienced.

I believe that you really have to sit with the ibogaine experience long
after it is over in order to catch all the traumas and defenses as they
reappear. Otherwise it can be a wild ride indeed. Preferably with a therapist
or close loved one on board, but with as few people as possible to keep
the focus inward. Think in terms of hours of meditation a day, with possible
conversations to match.

(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as
I’ve already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to
my face or in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at
least that I’ve ever seen or heard.)

Maybe I can rectify that. I prayed for death a few times after one ibogaine
experience. Just my mind going through hoops, but very grim at the time,
and it took over a year to put it behind me. Either some awful stuff
has happened to me, or I have been deeply masochistic, but my mind seems
to come apart when I look at one part of myself. Fortunately there seems
no need to do so, and unfortunately that seems to be what iboga is alll
about.

Getting back on topic, Preston my fantasy is that you’re still integrating,
the whole ride you’re on is the stuff you were able to keep down on
the ibo, and you’re transferring your inner pain into this outer crap
because that is what you learned to do. It takes real effort to achieve
the good feeling the ibo showed you on your own. Ibo just gives a glimpse
of what is at least somewhat achievable by working on oneself in an ongoing
fashion.

All that said, I dunno if anyone will feel any more warned than you did,
but who cares? Well, I’ve done my best 🙂

I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now,
and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems,
I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be
noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks
yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this
is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at
all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique
“you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid.
I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even
having the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful
and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just
in general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here?
Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression
I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to
my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important?
Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if
this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might
“have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get
ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to
quit smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to
tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or
off list. I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to
use or not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons,
it really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will
keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously.
As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and
really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn
toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money
like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment
for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me
better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking
for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could
be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking
fast.

Sean

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] nyc crystal forums
Date: September 28, 2004 at 12:26:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Ooops, this was meant to a private email to Dana.  Sorry all.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] nyc crystal forums
Date: September 28, 2004 at 12:21:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dana,

Don’t know if you have been following the list, but I had a really bad weekend.  Used crack and dope.  I am getting retreated with ibo next Monday. So I will be out of commission so to speak for a couple of weeks.  Will save your email, though, and am really interested in raising ibo consciousness in the gay community.  Just need to get my own house in order right now, so to speak.

It was great meeting you last week, and I look forward to working you and your crew in the near future. Preparing to meet the Bwiti on Monday. Will report back on my journey.

Peace and love,
Sean Cashin

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT! I’ve learned
Date: September 27, 2004 at 9:28:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve learned….
That life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes.

I’ve learned….
That we should be glad God doesn’t give us everything we ask for

I’ve learned….
That money doesn’t buy class.

I’ve learned….
That it’s those small daily happenings that make life so spectacular.

I’ve learned…
That under everyone’s hard shell is someone who wants to be appreciated and loved.

I’ve learned….
That the Lord didn’t do it all in one day. What makes me think I can?

I’ve learned….
That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.

I’ve learned….
That when you plan to get even with someone, you are only letting that person continue to hurt you.

I’ve learned….
That love, not time, heals all wounds.

I’ve learned…
That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.

I’ve learned….
That everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.

I’ve learned….
That no one is perfect until you fall in love with them.

 

I’ve learned….
That life is tough, but I’m tougher.

I’ve learned…
That opportunities are never lost; someone will take the ones you miss.

I’ve learned….
That when you harbor bitterness, happiness will dock elsewhere.

I’ve learned…
That I wish I could have told those I cared about that I love them one more time before they passed away.

I’ve learned….
That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because tomorrow he may have to eat them.

I’ve learned….
That a smile is an inexpensive way to improve your looks.

I’ve learned….
That I can’t choose how I feel, but I can choose what I do about it.

I’ve learned….
That everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you’re climbing it.

I’ve learned…
That it is best to give advice in only two circumstances; when it is requested and when it is a life threatening situation.

I’ve learned….
That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 11:02:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know what the story is with hiv or aids either and haven’t ever
had the interest to find out. If its anything like drug treatment and
ibogaine then anyone with hiv should most likely find out for
themselves and make their own best choices. I agree with that of
course. I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive. My reponse to asking
to have him thrown off wasn’t for what he said, it was the 20 long
messages he said it with. > > Sorry patrick, vig.> > .:vector:.

VMANN:  thats all right dude.
anyway, some of them were about tests, and some of them were about drug use
and HIV.
ill try to be more succinct or some shit like that.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:58:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry for over reacting to vig being obnoxious and posting all those
messages in a row. This list has so many messages that when someone
does that it is real annoying.

I don’t know what the story is with hiv or aids either and haven’t ever
had the interest to find out. If its anything like drug treatment and
ibogaine then anyone with hiv should most likely find out for
themselves and make their own best choices. I agree with that of
course. I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive. My reponse to asking
to have him thrown off wasn’t for what he said, it was the 20 long
messages he said it with.

Sorry patrick, vig.

.:vector:.

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

basically , you don’t want to see that the HIV scam is for made for

you.
It is pure ethnic cleansing, no gas chamber this time but something
more
effective.

So if you don’t use drugs then it is bullshit but if you do it isn’t,

Meth. Is popular, 10 years from now those people will be taking this
cocktail medication.

Go do your thing until you see people dying all over the place,
Then you will say , who gives a shit as long as I’m not one of them.

Okay, but it will be your tax money used for this scam, it will be
your
brother who take those cocktail medication, and your sister
prostituting for

A new drug which is going to be popular, a drug which will do the
ethnical
cleansing just a way quicker and give you a high you can’t resist.

No one wanted to help the gay community when the second world war
Was going on, now it is just the same.

S.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:33:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hattie, I have a friend going through a similar situation to Sean although
Ibogaine isn’t involved.  Would you mind if I sent him a copy of your post?
I think its inspirational and it doesn’t have to apply only to Ibogaine but
beating addiction in general which he’s having a hard time with.  I really
think it would help for him to read this.

Thanks so much,
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal
of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world.
Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in
and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests.  It
doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences
struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months
following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could
very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact
half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the
fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I
was
using (whatever it was at the time).  Not many people talk about this.
Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being
clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want
to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and
that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life –  the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that
I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around
you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take
something
–  that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more
discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it
easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this
is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of
a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even
after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really
jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process.
Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least,
it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face
or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I
also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted
by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is
why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all
knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique
“you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having
the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful
and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in
general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this
is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have”
to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready
for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit
smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell
what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list.
I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or
not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it
really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As
I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money
like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for
a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be
passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:11:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

basically , you don’t want to see that the HIV scam is for made for you.
It is pure ethnic cleansing, no gas chamber this time but something more
effective.

So if you don’t use drugs then it is bullshit but if you do it isn’t,

Meth. Is popular, 10 years from now those people will be taking this
cocktail medication.

Go do your thing until you see people dying all over the place,
Then you will say , who gives a shit as long as I’m not one of them.

Okay, but it will be your tax money used for this scam, it will be your
brother who take those cocktail medication, and your sister prostituting for

A new drug which is going to be popular, a drug which will do the ethnical
cleansing just a way quicker and give you a high you can’t resist.

No one wanted to help the gay community when the second world war
Was going on, now it is just the same.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Verzonden: maandag 27 september 2004 23:10
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list

On Sep 27, 2004, at 5:57 PM, Vigilius Haufniensis wrote:

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you
need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother. .:vector:.

VMANN:  lol, jesus dude.  you should see how much stuff i DIDNT send.
vigilius haufniensis

Vigilius … uhm, all that stuff you’ve reposted there, may or may not
be accurate.  It could, in fact, contain the most illuminating
collection of unbiased truth that has ever been slapped together by
human beings.

Personally, I really don’t give a shit.  I don’t have HIV, AIDS, or
hold stock in any pharmaceutical firms that sell drugs to combat same.

If you happen to be HIV positive, or have full-blown AIDS, then it’s
probably worth your time to educate yourself about your condition, to
the best of your ability to do so.  Because the mEdiCal eStabLishmenT
tends to be full of shit.

Having said all that, this isn’t the HIV or AIDS list.  I’m sure you
can go find 500 places to repost all that, and get a wide assortment of
people to argue with you about the relative merits of the information
contained herein.

In the future, just take all that crap, and put it in ONE large
message, that is easy to ignore by everybody else here who doesn’t give
a shit.  Yet, manages to IMPART all that wonderful knowledge, to
whomever does.

Thanks much,

Patrick

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:03:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Hattie and list,

Thank you all again.  Today was really horrible. First day with no mood alterers, even caffeine (not off coffee, just didn’t have any). Living with parents at 39 is really rough. I was homeless when they took me back in, but I know it time to get out soon.

I really am feeling the big crash today, I believe. I guess it is to be expected. I smashed a glass on the table (haven’t done anything like that in years). The glass shattered everywhere, and even cut my Mom a bit. So now I feel even worse, as well I should I think.

I was really moved by your not Hanna about how after the darkness there comes the light.  I have lined up a full retreatment next week, but I am also already working on a very intense after care, including (gulp) NA meetings. In the meantime, I will not use.

As Preston has said, in the end the choice is really ours alone. And, like Julian keeps saying, ibogaine is no panacea or cure all. Maybe to some degree I was looking at that way more last time than I should have.

Anyway, all seems forgiven here.  I am going to try to eat my first real meal in a few days now.  I think the food might help stabilize me a bit. This list has been a “Godsend” to me.  Each and every one of you who sent a kind word or thought has made a really rough time a little easier.

BTW..please enough with the HIV debate.  As Vector said, this not an HIV list. I need to make my own choices with that disease too (as well as my HepC). This list is a great support, but again, I know the decisions are mine in the end. I am well versed on all sides of the issue of meds Vs non meds for over ten years. Havin had only 13 t cells, I now have over 600, and no infections. I side with meds. I will say now, though, that I refuse to enter any sort of debate about this. Damn it I have enough going on with this withdrawal period.

Yo, thanks again.
Sean

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:10:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 27, 2004, at 5:57 PM, Vigilius Haufniensis wrote:

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother. .:vector:.

VMANN:  lol, jesus dude.  you should see how much stuff i DIDNT send.
vigilius haufniensis

Vigilius … uhm, all that stuff you’ve reposted there, may or may not be accurate.  It could, in fact, contain the most illuminating collection of unbiased truth that has ever been slapped together by human beings.

Personally, I really don’t give a shit.  I don’t have HIV, AIDS, or hold stock in any pharmaceutical firms that sell drugs to combat same.

If you happen to be HIV positive, or have full-blown AIDS, then it’s probably worth your time to educate yourself about your condition, to the best of your ability to do so.  Because the mEdiCal eStabLishmenT tends to be full of shit.

Having said all that, this isn’t the HIV or AIDS list.  I’m sure you can go find 500 places to repost all that, and get a wide assortment of people to argue with you about the relative merits of the information contained herein.

In the future, just take all that crap, and put it in ONE large message, that is easy to ignore by everybody else here who doesn’t give a shit.  Yet, manages to IMPART all that wonderful knowledge, to whomever does.

Thanks much,

Patrick

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 27, 2004 at 4:12:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
Does your boyfriend use?  Does your relationship with your boyfriend make you want to use or make you want to not use?
All of your dreams are doable.  You can be a horse whisperer.  You can learn all about the magic in the world and have a great relationship with your Mum and anything else you want.  But just as a horse (substitute dog, person, you name it) needs the right conditions to thrive,  so does Hannah!
You mentioned in your post that you don’t know the meaning of your rant.  What I get is that you want to follow a dream, you feel bad about having disappointed people, and you are aware that you are not strong enough to resist using around certain “friends”.
Hannah,  you will need optimal conditions to make your dreams happen.  Who we share ourselves with on a daily basis whether it be lover, friends, family – these are the main energy drains or energy supports.  Think about how you can set yourself up for the best possible result.
Love,
Mary

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:57:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother. .:vector:.

VMANN:  lol, jesus dude.  you should see how much stuff i DIDNT send.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV precedes full blown AIDS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:56:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Many studies agree that only a single factor, HIV, predicts whether a person will develop AIDS.

VMANN:  thats pretty interesting, because there ARE NO RELIABLE TESTS FOR HIV.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/chjtests1.htm
First, it is impossible to claim that HIV has been present in all AIDS cases. The CDC admits that 43,606 American AIDS cases have never been tested for HIV. Using the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) statistics, Professor Peter Duesberg of the University of California at Berkeley calculates an additional 18,666 have not been tested, totaling 62,272.[1] In Africa virtually no one is tested. The resources for HIV antibody tests are simply not available in most sub-Saharan African countries. Instead, Africans are diagnosed with AIDS on the basis of a clinical case definition [2] which consists of cough, fever, persistent diarrhea, and weight loss of greater than 10% of body weight. These identical symptoms can be caused by any number of diseases endemic to African countries. In fact, on the rare occasions when groups of African “AIDS” patients have been tested, approximately half of them have been found to be HIV negative.[3]

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Patrick please throw the HIV idiot off the list
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:53:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

patrick could you please throw this idiot off the list. It already has
a hugeeeee amount of messages on it without reading 50 reprints from
some computer weenies anti hiv conspiracy.

Please, this is annoying, it is up there with the person who smoked
crack and had conversations with himself for 2 days.

Vig this isn’t the HIV list, please stop posting this shit. If you need
this much attention maybe you should eat more califlower and broccoli
or examine how you feel about your mother.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] CAN YOU REALLY TRUST THE “AIDS TEST”?
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:48:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/chjtests1.htm

CAN YOU REALLY TRUST THE “AIDS TEST”?
By Christine Johnson
HEAL Magazine 1995
The primary evidence offered to substantiate the hypothesis that HIV causes AIDS is an epidemiological correlation between HIV and AIDS. It is claimed that all AIDS patients are infected with HIV, as demonstrated by positive HIV antibody tests, and that a positive HIV antibody test means that a person is infected with HIV.
First, it is impossible to claim that HIV has been present in all AIDS cases. The CDC admits that 43,606 American AIDS cases have never been tested for HIV. Using the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) statistics, Professor Peter Duesberg of the University of California at Berkeley calculates an additional 18,666 have not been tested, totaling 62,272.[1] In Africa virtually no one is tested. The resources for HIV antibody tests are simply not available in most sub-Saharan African countries. Instead, Africans are diagnosed with AIDS on the basis of a clinical case definition [2] which consists of cough, fever, persistent diarrhea, and weight loss of greater than 10% of body weight. These identical symptoms can be caused by any number of diseases endemic to African countries. In fact, on the rare occasions when groups of African “AIDS” patients have been tested, approximately half of them have been found to be HIV negative.[3]
Even if all cases throughout the world had been tested and had been found to be positive, this would still offer no proof that AIDS patients are infected with HIV, since during the initial development of HIV antibody tests (and even to this day), the tests were never verified by an independent gold standard. A gold standard means that it is necessary to correlate a positive antibody test with findings of actual virus in the body of the person being tested and a negative test with findings of no virus in the body.
HIV antibody tests have been subjected to severe criticism by an Australian research team headed by Dr. Eleni Eleopulos [4] for a multitude of reasons. The most important is that an antibody test is not valid unless it has been authenticated by use of an independent gold standard which, for HIV antibody tests, must be the presence of HIV itself. Dr. Eleopulos’s team thoroughly searched the literature on antibody testing and found that no researcher had yet met the requirement of a gold standard. Thus, they conclude that the relationship between a positive HIV antibody test and HIV infection has not been substantiated.
The necessity for a proper gold standard cannot be emphasized too much. Eleopulos explains: “The use of viral isolation as an independent means of establishing the presence or absence of the virus is technically known as a gold standard, and is a quintessential element for the authentication of any diagnostic test. Without a gold standard the investigator is hopelessly disoriented since he does not have an autonomous yardstick against which he can appraise the test he is aspiring to develop.”
Without a gold standard there is no way to be sure that a positive HIV antibody test indicates HIV infection or what it indicates. False positives due to cross-reactions have been well-documented for dozens of different reasons. A crossreaction is when the test finds an antibody to another microbe or even to some normal cellular component and registers it as an antibody to HIV.
Cross-reactions with non-HIV antibodies have been documented in the presence of the following: any other retrovirus besides HIV, the flu virus, common cold virus, herpes simplex-2 virus, hepatitis B virus, all Mycobacterium bacterial species (including tuberculosis, leprosy, and M. avium [MAC]); vaccinations such as for flu or hepatitis B; pregnancy or prior pregnancy, blood transfusions, hemophilia, blood clotting factor, sperm, a highly oxidized physiological condition (which occurs with extensive use of drugs or blood products); autoimmune disorders such as lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and Sjogren’s syndrome; cancers such as multiple myeloma; alcoholic hepatitis, alcoholism, liver disease; naturally-occurring antibodies such as antibodies to carbohydrate, nuclear antigens, human T-cells, mitochondria, and cellular actin; tapeworms and other parasites; malaria, malnutrition, and others.
The reason members of the AIDS risk groups (gay men, intravenous drug users, hemophiliacs, and recipients of blood transfusions) have high levels of positive HIV antibody tests is due to the fact that all these groups are exposed to a multitude of foreign antigens and infectious agents and thus have numerous antibodies to many non-HIV antigens. Because of these factors, it is to be expected that cross-reactivity with the HIV antigens in the test kits would be the rule rather than the exception in these groups. The same holds true for Africans: Both ELISA and Western Blot tests are nonspecific in African populations, meaning the tests cross-react with antibodies to other diseases on such a frequent basis as to make the results worthless for HIV detection.[5-9]
According to Langedijk, “[a]lmost all reactions, especially in low-risk populations, represent false positive results.”[10] Both on ELISA and Western Blot. In the general population, it has been generally accepted by mainstream AIDS researchers that positive results are likely to be false positives. Many articles have been written in the scientific literature expressing concern about this problem.[11-13] As Germanson has noted, “At some point of extremely low disease prevalence, it is expected that the positive predictive value (PPV) of the most powerful assay series will deteriorate to a sub-standard level of performance.” A low PPV means that a positive result is not likely to predict infection.
The mathematics of the relationship between test specificity, disease prevalence, and positive predictive value consistently predict that in low-prevalence populations almost all positives are false positives. In the general population, which the CDC estimates to have a prevalence of HIV infection of 0.04%, using a test with a specificity of 99.9%, the result is that 71% of all positives will be false positives. At a specificity of 98.6%, 97% will be false positives. (Send a SASE to the author for a chart of these calculations.)
The above discussion only scratches the surface of what is wrong with HIV antibody tests. It is not recommended by this author to get tested for any reason; to do so is to open a Pandora’s box of trouble.
References
1. Duesberg, P. 1993. “The HIV gap in national AIDS statistics.” Bio/Technolpgy.- 11:955-6.
2. Gilks, C. 199 1. ‘What use is a clinical case definition for AIDS in Africa?’ BMJ. 303.1189-90.
3. Duesberg, P. 1992. AIDS acquired by drug consumption and other non contagious risk factors. Pharmac. Ther. 12. 55:201-277.
4, Papadopulos-Eleopulos, E., Turner, V., Papadimitriou, J. 1993. Is a positive Western Blot proof of HIV infection? Bio/Technology— 11:696-707.
5. Hunsmann, G., Schneider, J, Wendler, I. et al. 1985. HTLV positivity in Africans. Lancet. October 26, 1985.
6. AIDS vaccine efficacy trial sites selected by WHO. 1991. The Blue Sheet. 34(43):1-3.
7. Weiss, R., Cheingsong-Popov, R., Clayden, S. et al. 1986. Lack of HTLVA antibodies in Africans. Nature. 319:794795.
8. Biggar, R., Melbye, M., Sarin, P. et al. 1985. ELISA HTLV retrovirus antibody reactivity associated with malaria and immune complexes in healthy Aflicans. Lancet. ii:520-523.
9. Kashala, 0., Marlink, R., Ilunga, M. et al. 1994. Infection with human immunodeficiency virus type 1 (HIV- 1) and human T-cell lymphotropic viruses among leprosy patients and contacts: correlation between HIV- 1 crossreactivity and antibodies to lipoarabinomanna. J. Infec. Dis. 169:296-304.
10. Langedijk, J., Vos, W., Doornum, G, et al. 1992. Identification of crossreactive epitopes recognized by HIV- 1 false-positive sera. AIDS. 6:1547-1548.
11. Weiss, R., Thier, S. 1988. HIV testing is the answer — what’s the questiong NEJM 319:1010-1012. Meyer, K., Pauker, S. 1987. Screening for HIV: Can we afford the false positive rate? . 317:238-241.
13. Germanson, T. 1989. Screening for HIV: Can we afford the confusion of the false positive rate? J. Clin. Epi. 42:1235-123

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HOW ACCURATE IS THE HIV TEST?
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:47:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cftests2.htm

HOW ACCURATE IS THE HIV TEST?
By Celia Farber
Mothering Sept./Oct. 1998
People often discuss the dreaded “AIDS test” as though it is AIDS itself that is being tested for. It is not. What the “AIDS test” actually detects is antibodies to HIV, which may or may not entail true infection with HIV. (1) Traditionally, antibodies have signaled that an infection has been defeated. In AIDS, however, for reasons that remain unresolved, the antibody has come to be synonymous with bad news — a categorical signal that the person “has” HIV and perhaps even “has” AIDS.
Rarely, if ever, has a single diagnostic test had such an enormous impact on the lives of the millions of people who rely on it. Since 1985, the U.S. government and various civilian institutions have performed more than 20 million HIV tests every year. Responses to positive tests have been melodramatic. People have been known to commit suicide or murder, lapse into depression, have abortions, become divorced, and take toxic medications. (2) Tragically, these dramatic actions were triggered by a test that is far from foolproof.
In 1993, a group of Australian researchers published what would be the first substantial critique of the HIV antibody test. The article, entitled “Is a Positive Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?” was published in the journal Bio/Technology, a respected scientific publication affiliated with the British magazine Nature. The Australian researchers stated that the HIV test is seriously flawed on several counts: it is not standardized, so different labs will interpret the same results differently; it is not reproducible (the test fails when tested against itself); it cross-reacts with other, non-HIV proteins; and it lacks a true “gold standard.” Every diagnostic test must have a gold standard, which in this case would be HIV itself, but the authors argue this is impossible since the HIV virus has never been isolated in pure form. (3)
The scientists scrutinized the two most widely used HIV antibody tests — the “ELISA,” which is used to screen blood, and the “Western Blot” (WB), which is used to confirm a positive result on the ELISA. The problems apply to both tests.
The ELISA test, first developed in 1985, is highly sensitive and also extremely nonspecific, which means it gives a positive result even when there is no HIV present. As many as four out of five ELISA tests cannot be confirmed by Western Blot, (4) and yet it remains the most widely used test in the Third World, most notably Africa, where HIV is said to be rampant.
Citing the data from a mass HIV testing program undertaken by the U.S. military, the Australian researchers revealed some startling findings. There were, for instance, 4,000 people who had two positive ELISAs followed by a negative WB. Perhaps worse, there were 80 cases of people who had two positive ELISAs, a positive WB, followed by a negative follow-up WB.
In other words, those 80 people, outside the context of this study, would have gone home believing they were HIV positive, since a single positive WB qualifies a person as positive. But in fact they were negative.
Another problem with the test is that it is nonspecific. The test looks for patterns of proteins thought to be specific to HIV. One protein in particular, p24, is “currently believed to be synonymous with HIV isolation and viremia,” the study says. But the Australian researchers detected p24 antibodies in a number of people who were completely free of HIV, including one out of every 150 healthy people, about 13 percent of all people with generalized warts, and more than 40 percent of those with multiple sclerosis. On the other hand, they point out, p24 is not found in all AIDS patients.
But perhaps most troubling, the tests tend to cross-react with other microbes. The Bio/Technology articles describes a tribe of Amazonian Indians who have never had contact outside their tribe and who have no AIDS. And yet, 3.3 to 13.3 percent were HIV- positive by Western Blot. “The above data,” they speculated in their final report, means either that HIV is not in fact causing AIDS, “or, that the HIV antibody tests are non-specific.”
The test’s greatest failing in the eyes of those who’ve had to rely on it, however, is that it is not standardized. In the Australian study, one particular blood sample was sent 89 times to three different labs. It was reported to be positive 64 times, indeterminate 23 times, and negative once. There is such a broad, gray, “indeterminate” zone, in fact, that it’s often merely chance whether a given lab reads the result as positive or negative.
Christine Maggiore, president of the dissident AIDS-activist group HEAL in Los Angeles, experienced this first-hand. After initially testing HIV-positive, and going into the emotional tailspin that such a result often sets off, she subsequently repeated the test four more times, and got every possible result on the spectrum — positive, negative and indeterminate. “This is why I tell people not to take the test,” she says emphatically. “It’s just too unreliable. It shouldn’t be how we measure our health.” *
Celia Farber has written on the issues and controversies surrounding HIV, AZT, and AIDS for more than a decade. She is a regular contributor to Esquire, Spin, USA Today, and Gear, among other national publications. She is the mother of one son and resides with her family in New York City.
Notes:
1. P. Duesberg, Inventing the AIDS Virus (Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, 1996), 207-209.
2. J. Shenton, Positively False, 53-73.
3. E. P. Papadopoulous-Eleopulos and V. Turner, “Is a Positive Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?” Bio/Technology (2 June 1993): 696-707.
4. R. Root-Bernstein, Rethinking AIDS (New York: Free Press), 51.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS: IS ANYONE POSITIVE?
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:47:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/nheuropean.htm

AIDS: IS ANYONE POSITIVE?
By Neville Hodgkinson
The European, 22 June 1998
On 28 June scientists at the 12th World AIDS Conference in Geneva will hear arguments that a modern dogma, almost universally accepted, is flawed in a fundamental and dangerous way. This is the idea, first propounded at an international press conference in the United States in April 1984 and adopted almost immediately worldwide, that the cause of AIDS is a deadly virus, HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).
The theory seemed validated scientifically when Dr Robert Gallo, of the US National Institutes of Health, published four long papers in a single issue of the journal Science purporting to have identified the new virus as the primary cause of AIDS and to have produced a diagnostic test for it. The hypothesis became the basis of an industry that has since received tens of billions of dollars for research and treatment in Europe and North America, with more than $ 45bn contributed by US taxpayers alone. Gallo’s apparent discovery was hailed as adding “another miracle to the long honour roll of American medicine and science”, although it was to herald a worldwide panic over sex, with predictions that millions would die as the virus surreptitiously spread.
Yet according to a group of scientists who are for the first time being given an opportunity to put their ideas before the world AIDS community, basic checks needed to establish the nature and even the existence of such a virus were never completed. Evidence accumulated by these critics indicates that genetic and biochemical signals that gave rise to the HIV theory are better understood as arising from within the body’s immune cells, rather than as a consequence of invasion by a deadly new microbe.
Various prolonged stresses on the body can cause these signals to appear. They include infection by a range of known germs; exposure to other people’s bodily fluids such as blood and semen; and assaults on the body by some medical and recreational drugs. Malnutrition also plays a part, especially in parts of Asia and Africa, because it greatly increases vulnerability to chronic infections such as tuberculosis and leprosy that also cause a person to test “HIV” positive.
According to this view, antibodies detected in the blood with the “HIV” test are non-specific: they do not mean a person is infected with a particular virus that is slowly destroying their immune system. The test should therefore be scrapped. The same is true of so-called “viral counts”, technology that picks up altered levels of certain genetic sequences in the body. This genetic activity is connected with immune system activation but has never been shown to relate to a specific virus. The multi-billion-dollar effort to develop drugs or a vaccine targeting “HIV” should be reappraised, as it is unlikely to get to the root of the problem of AIDS and may have been adding to the suffering of victims.
In short, “HIV” is a myth, along with many of the beliefs accompanying the theory. The pictures of the virus that have appeared around the world are artists’ impressions and computer simulations, based on indirect observations by molecular biologists, not isolation of the virus itself.
The scientist at the centre of this amazing critique is Eleni Eleopulos, of the department of medical physics, Royal Perth Hospital, in Western Australia. An expert on cell oxidation, she recognised 14 years ago that the phenomena claimed to show the presence of a new virus in AIDS might instead be arising from mechanisms of cell stress. She has been researching the issue ever since.
Eleopulos is supported by Dr Valendar Turner, an emergency physician who has also dedicated years of work to an analysis of AIDS science; Dr David Causer, Eleopulos’s head of department; and Dr John Papadimitriou, professor of pathology at the University of Western Australia, an internationally renowned expert on electron microscopy. All four are to present their case, via a satellite link-up from Perth, in a two-hour symposium at the world conference entitled “HIV Testing: Open Questions Regarding Specificity”.
Dr Etienne de Harven, former professor of pathology at the University of Toronto, who pioneered a method of purifying viruses during 25 years’ work at the Sloan Kettering Institute in New York, is also taking part in the symposium. Now based in France, he agrees with Eleopulos’s dramatic claim that HIV researchers have failed to demonstrate the existence of “HIV” in AIDS patients. Recent attempts to make good this omission, with electron microscope studies that should have been done 15 years ago, produced “disastrous” results, he says, suggesting “billions of research dollars gone up in smoke”.
Other participants will include Dr Stefan Lanka, a German virologist who has also argued against the HIV hypothesis; Huw Christie, editor of Continuum, a UK-based AIDS magazine which has offered a £ 1,000 “missing virus” award to the first person finding a scientific paper establishing actual isolation of HIV; and science journalist Joan Shenton, author of Positively False, a recent book about controversies surrounding HIV and AIDS.
The session is hosted by the Geneva-based International Forum for Accessible Science (IFAS), an umbrella group which has brought together scientists, gay health activists and human rights workers seeking to highlight radical challenges to current AIDS research, diagnosis and treatment strategies.
Michael Baumgartner, the organisation’s founder and secretary, who used to serve as an AIDS chaplain at San Francisco General Hospital, said that voices of dissent on the HIV hypothesis have been growing stronger from within the scientific community. The dissidents had presented more and more “conclusive” work. In addition, he said, organisations of people living with the label of either “HIV” or AIDS were irritated by the failure of the latest treatment approaches and losing faith in the orthodox views. The decision to allow the claimed flaws in HIV science to be examined at the conference was “historic”.
The conference’s scientific programme co-ordinators turned down a request for a full plenary session. However, IFAS has been granted free facilities for the two-hour symposium as a complement to the official programme. The decision was made by the conference executive after support from the Global Network of People Living With AIDS and the International Community of Women Living with HIV/AIDS, two of the five co-sponsors of the conference. Baumgartner says Dr Bernard Hirschel, the conference chairman, also indicated that he sees the importance of clarifying the issues raised by IFAS.
The implications of the challenge are enormous, in commercial as well as human terms. The US Patent and Trademark Office has awarded more than 1,500 patents based on the belief that HIV is both real and dangerous. Companies producing tests that screen blood for evidence of HIV and its purported effects on immune system cells make millions of dollars yearly. New tests are now being marketed for estimating levels of genetic activity attributed to HIV – so-called “viral load” assays. The latest thinking is that an “HIV-positive” person should be tested in this way four times a year.
Although AIDS cases are plummeting in many parts of the world, sales growth is anticipated in this area of managing what has come to be known as “HIV disease”. Sales of diagnostic and monitoring kits totalled $ 186m in 1995 in the US alone and were predicted to rise by 50 per cent within five years.
Still more lucrative is the rapidly growing market for combinations of expensive drugs claimed to be therapeutic in “HIV disease”, such as Glaxo Wellcome’s Combivir, approved by the European Commission this year. Sales are not just directed towards AIDS patients but to the much larger groups who, according to the orthodox view, are in the grip of a viral illness that is slowly wearing down their immune system years before symptoms develop. By last year, cumulative worldwide sales of Glaxo Wellcome’s AZT, the first “anti-HIV therapy”, had exceeded $ 2.5bn, despite severe concerns about its toxicity.
AIDS grew into a multi-billion-dollar business when it was claimed in the mid-1980s that the virus “does not discriminate” and that it would be only a matter of time before it swept through the world’s sexually active populations. The huge investment of money and energy made it difficult for ideas about the nature of the illness to change. Government and industry scientists, as well as public health officials, AIDS advocacy groups, journal editors and specialist correspondents became defensive.
The response to the first major critique of the HIV theory, by Dr Peter Duesberg, professor of molecular biology at the University of California at Berkeley, was bewilderment, followed by fury. Duesberg had been voted Californian Scientist of the Year for his discoveries in the field of retroviruses (of which HIV is supposed to be one). He argued in 1987 that HIV could not be doing the damage attributed to it, because it was so difficult to find in the body, even in a person dying of AIDS. He postulated that an explosion in the use of recreational drugs during the 1970s was probably the main cause of AIDS. He was first ignored and then pilloried for persisting with his views. He lost a $ 350,000 “outstanding investigator” award and became an embarrassment to his university, which, while unable to fire him, reduced him to chairing its annual picnic committee.
The past 10 years have shown Duesberg to have been right on several counts. He stated that HIV could not kill immune cells, that AIDS would not become a heterosexual epidemic and that the anti-viral drug AZT would kill rather than cure. On all three issues, the evidence has gone his way.
The Perth group’s still more fundamental challenge to the HIV theory, despite its almost incredible contradiction to received wisdom, fits the facts even better than Duesberg’s. It bypasses one of the principal objections to Duesberg’s position: the close relationship, confirmed in numerous studies, between testing HIV-positive and risk of illness. According to Eleopulos, the relationship is real, even though HIV is not. When antibodies are present in the blood at levels that cause a person to test positive, this may well indicate an abnormal immune system state. However, the abnormalities are not caused by “HIV” but by factors in patients’ lives that overstimulate their immune cells. These factors may be either toxic or infectious in nature. Sometimes the stimuli are only temporary – even a dose of flu, or a course of flu jabs, can cause a positive result. Longer-lasting assaults are the ones that may trigger a process leading to AIDS.
In a huge review article published in Bio/Technology, a sister journal to Nature, Eleopulos and her colleagues argued that none of the HIV tests marketed was ever properly validated by showing that protein reagents used to detect “HIV” antibodies really were connected to the virus. The reason this validation was never performed, they say, is that it proved impossible to isolate the virus from patients. The main means of attempting to confirm the usefulness of the tests was to show that antibodies which react with the test proteins were much more likely to be found in AIDS patients and people at risk of AIDS than in healthy people. However, all of those so-called “HIV” markers have been shown to have other sources within the body, so even if HIV existed the antibodies could not be said to signify its presence.
Huge confusion has been created by this situation. One review of the medical literature found no fewer than 70 different disease conditions, often involving an auto-immune response, documented as capable of triggering a positive result with the test.
If the scientists who maintain that “HIV” is a myth are right, their analysis holds a crucial message of hope for people who have tested positive. It means that, depending on how much damage has been caused, a person’s immune system may return to a normal, healthy state providing the compromising factors are removed. This explains why millions of “positive” people have stayed well for years, especially in poor countries unable to afford the anti-viral drugs, contrary to predictions based on the “deadly virus” view.
Even Africa, subjected by western scientists, AIDS agencies and the media to years of stories of impending doom because of HIV, may be beginning to emerge from the nightmare as it becomes widely understood that the predictions were wrong. A recent Time cover story, “Africa Rising”, acknowledged that “after decades of famine and war, life is finally looking up for many Africans.” In 11 pages, there was not one mention of HIV or AIDS. New African magazine, which circulates across the continent, has called for an international inquiry to establish the truth about AIDS. It says “alarmist and exaggerated” forecasts made by western experts, supported by the World Health Organisation, have done immeasurable harm to African confidence and the way Africans are seen abroad.
Tragically, there is much evidence that the “HIV” diagnosis itself has killed many. Apart from causing suicides and other deaths related to the psychological stress involved, the diagnosis led doctors to prescribe highly toxic drugs to try to defeat the virus. Some of the most experienced physicians, such as Dr Donald Abrams, professor of medicine and director of the AIDS programme at San Francisco General Hospital, have begun to awaken to the disaster. In a lecture to medical students of the University of California at San Francisco, reported in their magazine, Synapse, Abrams said: “People who have chosen not to take any antiretrovirals … watched all of their friends go on the antiviral bandwagon and die.”
For the most part, the AIDS mainstream has maintained silence about these and many other findings that undermine the “HIV” beliefs. When pressed, the typical response has been to assert that only a handful of “maverick” scientists are questioning the orthodoxy. Most professionals have had little opportunity to know any different, because the main journals refused access to their pages. Professor Gordon Stewart, a British public health expert and former World Health Organisation adviser, concluded as far back as 1985 that lifestyle and behaviour factors were probably central to AIDS. His predictions about the pattern of the epidemic proved more accurate than those based on the virus theory. However, years of efforts to persuade Nature and the Royal Society, the national academy of science for the UK, to publish his analyses came to nothing.
In fact, thousands of scientists and AIDS experts around the world have concluded that the “lethal virus” theory of AIDS is inadequate. Several hundred of these, including two Nobel prize winners, have gone public on the issue. Through an organisation called the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis, set up six years ago, they have been pressing the scientific community to re-examine the cause or causes of AIDS. Support for this call is growing as a result of the construction of two dissident websites. One of these (http://www.virusmyth.com) contains more than 250 articles.
The webmaster is Robert Laarhoven, a Dutch AIDS analyst who four years ago was ejected from the 10th World AIDS Conference in Berlin after he persisted in setting out literature concerning the dissident case on an unused table. He was threatened with arrest and expulsion from Germany if he returned. Gay activists who set fire to some of the literature were left unimpeded. Will it be different this time, in Geneva? While the conference executive’s decision to allow IFAS a platform is welcome, much will depend on whether both lay and scientific delegates are sufficiently wearied by the failings of the HIV theory to contemplate an alternative.
Unease over the state of AIDS science is certainly growing. The last World AIDS Conference, two years ago in Vancouver, Canada, was dominated by jubilant claims that new pharmaceutical cocktails, including a class of drugs called protease inhibitors, were dramatically beneficial in some cases of AIDS. A “Lazarus effect” was reported, in which patients were said to be rising from their sickbeds and returning to productive life. There were hopes that these aggressive combination therapies, costing around $ 20,000 a year (including the cost of the “viral counts” that accompany them), could eliminate HIV from some patients.
Last year, a different story was emerging. HIV, it was now stated, mutated so fast that it was evading the pharmaceutical onslaught. It also had “hiding places” in the body. “Despite new AIDS drugs, many still lose the battle”, the New York Times reported in August. From Germany, doctors stated that “… the favourable results from controlled studies with antiretroviral drugs containing protease inhibitors cannot simply be translated into everyday clinical practice”. Even the most passionate advocates of the new approaches have admitted there is “one dark cloud on the horizon”, as a report in The Lancet put it: human behaviour. Up to a half of patients find it impossible to swallow all their pills as prescribed, becoming “treatment failures”. This is not just because of the complicated regimen, involving taking around 20 tablets a day. Bizarre and dangerous side-effects are beginning to emerge. “These reports tell us that protease inhibitors are not as specific in their effects on the virus as we thought,” said Dr John Mellors, of the University of Pittsburgh, at a conference in February this year. “They also hit the patient.”
Recent claims in the New England Journal of Medicine that rapid falls in AIDS cases and deaths are attributable to the use of the more intensive drug treatments were not based on a scientific trial but on a study wide open to bias. Besides, the falls began well before the new treatments were introduced.
AIDS doctors earnestly want to find something to show for the billions of dollars put into the HIV theory, but their desperation is clouding their judgment, according to some scientists. Dr David Rasnick, a biochemist and US AIDS researcher who worked with protease inhibitors for 20 years, pointed out last year that none of the recently lauded drugs in that class approved by the US Food and Drug Administration had completed a full clinical trial. Instead, trials are stopped before potential problems emerge. For example, a 1,200-person trial was halted prematurely in February last year because there were 18 deaths in a group receiving two anti-viral drugs, compared with only eight deaths in a group receiving three, including a protease inhibitor. This result was presented as meaning the protease inhibitor cocktail reduces deaths by half but even the trial leader admitted that with 1,200 people being studied, the difference had not reached statistical significance. Much the same happened with AZT, the first alleged “gold standard” of AIDS treatment: in a four-year Anglo-French study it was shown to be bringing a 25 per cent rise in deaths in those receiving the drug compared with those given a placebo.
Contrary to the impression given by the media, there are now thousands of dissenters to the HIV theory. It took root in the medical mind only 15 years ago but on its basis more than 100,000 papers have been published. Much courage and humility will be needed by the medical profession to look at it afresh. The longer the arguments over virus isolation and the validity of the test remain unacknowledged, the greater the potential crisis for medical science.
Will Geneva rise to this challenge? Or will it insist, as a former editor of Nature has done of the HIV hypothesis, that “there is no other and thus no choice”? *

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] NEW DOUBTS OVER AIDS INFECTION AS HIV TEST DECLARED INVALID
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:46:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/nhtests.htm

NEW DOUBTS OVER AIDS INFECTION AS HIV TEST DECLARED INVALID
By Neville Hodgkinson
The Sunday Times (London) 1 Aug. 1993

The “AIDS test” is scientifically invalid and incapable of determining whether people are really infected with HIV, according to a new report by a team of Australian scientists who have conducted the first extensive review of research surrounding the test.
Doctors should think again about its use, say the authors. “A positive HIV status has such profound implications that nobody should be required to bear this burden without solid guarantees of the verity of the test and its interpretation,” they conclude.
The findings, likely to cause intense debate in the medical fraternity and anguish for many HIV-positive people, are contained in an article published by the respected science journal, BioTechnology.
Many people who appear to be infected with HIV, say the researchers, can be suffering from other conditions such as malaria or malnutrition that produce a positive result in the test. Even flu jabs can produce the same effect. As a result, predictions by the World Health Organisation (WHO) that millions are set to die because of being HIV-positive may be wildly inaccurate.
The paper also lends powerful support to the theory, held by growing numbers of scientists, that HIV is not the true cause of AIDS. One of its authors, Eleni Eleopulous, a biophysicist at the Royal Perth Hospital, said this weekend: “There is no proof that people labelled as ‘HIV-positive’ are infected with such a retrovirus. We should really question the role of ‘HIV’ in the causation of AIDS.”
Overall, the findings “mean the tests have not been scientifically evaluated”, she said.
The authors say that neither of the two main HIV tests used have been adequately checked for accuracy. These tests rely on detecting antibodies to HIV in blood samples. But people whose immune systems have been activated by several other conditions, including tuberculosis and multiple sclerosis, can trigger the same reaction, giving a false-positive result.
Promiscuous homosexual men, illicit drug users, multiple blood transfusion recipients such as haemophiliacs and people subject to multiple infections become increasingly liable to give a positive result the longer their immune system is weakened, regardless of HIV.
To have confidence in antibody tests, they must first be validated by having their results checked against a “gold standard” that is, isolation of the virus itself. However, this has never been done with the AIDS test. The report adds that a procedure used to confirm the validity of diagnostic tests by looking for a virus’s genetic material has also been shown to produce false results and cannot be considered as synonymous with isolating the virus.
The AIDS tests look for the detection of a protein called p24, generally considered the equivalent of isolating the virus. However, it has been detected in one out of 150 healthy individuals, 13% of people suffering from warts a condition that signals a weakened immune system and 41% of patients with multiple sclerosis, another immune system disorder.
Heavy exposure to sperm can also set up an antibody reaction, especially when entering the body through anal intercourse. It is another probable source of false-positives.
The WHO, which is seeking an extra £ 2billion a year for its AIDS prevention programme, estimates that about 14m people have been infected with HIV worldwide. It claims the total will reach 30-40m by the year 2,000, and that most will eventually contract AIDS.
Developing countries are said to face the biggest threat, with Africa alone already having an estimated 8m HIV-infected people. However, according to the BioTechnology report, these are the countries where the tests may be at their most unreliable because of widespread ill-health caused by other diseases. Severe malnutrition and multiple infections are especially likely to produce a misleading result in the test. Claims that current AIDS tests are virtually 100% accurate are based on studies of healthy subjects.
Eleopulous said that the paper, which underwent detailed scrutiny by other experts, concentrates on the shortcomings of one of two main categories of “AIDS test” known as “western blot”, generally considered the more definitive of the two.
However, she said doubts were even stronger over the validity of the other test, called Elisa. This is usually administered first but is widely acknowledged to carry a high risk of false-positives.
Screening with Elisa in Russia in 1991 produced 30,000 positive tests, of which only 66 were confirmed using western blot. In the United States, a study among military applicants produced 6,000 individuals with an initially positive but subsequently negative Elisa test.
Dr Philip Mortimer, of the virus reference division at Britain’s Public Health Laboratory Service, accepted last week that some fair points about the weakness of the western blot had been made, but he rejected claims that Elisa was even worse. He maintained that the situation described in the article was not typical of this country, where there is less reliance on western blot.
An initial positive test would be followed by a combination of different Elisa tests, although sometimes including western blot, and a test of a follow-up specimen, said Mortimer. “Only if the positive reactions on both specimens are confirmed, usually in a reference laboratory, is a positive report issued.”
He believed there was no evidence that people had been falsely told in Britain that they were HIV-positive.
The findings have been welcomed by Professor Peter Duesberg, a top American virologist who maintains that HIV is not the cause of AIDS. He said the evidence helped to explain how “a false correlation” had been found between “HIV” antibodies and AIDS.
“The whole virus hypothesis of AIDS is based on this correlation,” he said. “Its proponents have nothing else: no mechanism whereby HIV could do the damage attributed to it, no animal tests, no cure, no vaccine, no virus activity.
“They have nothing conventional in terms of virus-disease argument, except this correlation with antibodies. If this study is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, it means that even that is now falling apart.”
The findings have already led to a call by the New York Native, an influential gay newspaper, for legal action against the American government by relatives of people who have killed themselves, or suffered toxic effects from taking the anti-viral drug AZT, as a result of positive HIV tests.
Charles Ortleb, the editor, said: “If the test doesn’t work, and if people really don’t know that they are infected, the whole thing needs to be rethought … This should be given high priority by the research establishment. We think that as a practical matter, no one should trust this test.” *

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FEDERAL INQUIRY FINDS MISCONDUCT BY A DISCOVERER OF THE AIDS VIRUS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:45:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/phgallonyt.htm

FEDERAL INQUIRY FINDS MISCONDUCT BY A DISCOVERER OF THE AIDS VIRUS
By Philip J. Hilts
New York Times 31 Dec. 1992
After three years of investigations, the Federal Office of Research Integrity today found that Dr. Robert C. Gallo, the American co-discoverer of the cause of AIDS, had committed scientific misconduct. The investigators said he had “falsely reported” a critical fact in the scientific paper of 1984 in which he described isolating the virus that causes AIDS.
The new report said Dr. Gallo had intentionally misled colleagues to gain credit for himself and diminish credit due to his French competitors. The report also said that his false statement had “impeded potential AIDS research progress” by diverting scientists from potentially fruitful work with the French researchers.
Dr. Gallo has faced questions about his scientific claims ever since the paper was published in Science magazine in April 1984. Most of his critics argued that Dr. Gallo had tried to take credit for work that the French had done and that he may even have taken the virus the French were studying and claimed it as his own. At the time, the virus was difficult to isolate and grow in sufficient quantity for researchers.
Also charged with the misconduct was Dr. Mikulas Popovic, a Czechoslovak immigrant who actually carried out the crucial AIDS experiments under Dr. Gallo.
Maintains Innocence
Dr. Gallo said today that he was not guilty and would appeal the decision. “After reviewing everything I and my colleagues have ever published on the discovery of the AIDS virus and the development of the AIDS blood test, the office of Research Integrity could only take issue with few trivial mistakes and a single sentence written by me.”
The Federal conclusions are “utterly unwarranted,” he said. “On a broader level,” he added, “this endless and incompetent Government investigation should be of concern to everybody seeking to advance medical knowledge. My laboratory’s contributions to the advancement of medical science are undisputed. For the past three years, however, I have spent a substantial amount of my time responding to issues” raised in the investigations.
The Office of Research Integrity was created this year in the Department of Health and Human Services to handle the final review of scientific misconduct cases within agencies like the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The only remaining step for Dr. Gallo is to appeal the case to a judicial board within the department.
Little Credit for French
The report said Dr. Gallo intentionally misled scientific colleagues by saying he had grown an AIDS virus in his laboratory for study and he had not grown or studied a similar French strain of the virus. In fact, Dr. Gallo himself had grown the French virus and used it in furthering his own research, the report said.
While searching for the cause of AIDS, Dr. Gallo had received a sample of a virus being studied by French researchers and had worked extensively with it to extend his own discoveries, the Federal report concluded. Dr. Gallo left little credit for the French scientists in his 1984 paper because he said he had not been able to grow enough of the French AIDS virus: It “has not been transmitted to a permanently growing cell line for true isolation and therefore has been difficult to obtain in quantity,” he wrote.
Dr. Gallo has said that this sentence meant simply that the virus was hard for anyone to grow it, not that he himself had failed to grow it. In fact, investigators showed that the French virus had been grown in cell lines in Dr. Gallo’s own laboratory, and worked with there.
Referring to the sentence, the new report said, “Dr. Gallo falsely reported the status of L.A.V. research when he wrote the statement, and this constitutes scientific misconduct.” L.A.V. refers to the French strain of the AIDS virus. The report went on, “The explanations that Dr. Gallo proffered for the statement are neither credible when the evidence is considered, nor do they vitiate the impropriety of falsely reporting the status of L.A.V. research.
In addition, the report found that Dr. Gallo warranted censure on these four other counts:
• Referring to his role as a referee for a different article submitted to a journal by his French competitors, in which he altered several lines to favor his own hypothesis about the AIDS virus, the report said the revisions were “gratuitous, self-serving and improper.”
• As to the many errors in the 1984 paper, which was co-authored with Dr. Popovic, the report concluded, “In light of his role as senior author, Dr. Gallo must bear substantial responsibility for the numerous discrepancies, including four instances of scientific misconduct attributed to Dr. Popovic.”
• On the standards of Dr. Gallo’s laboratory record-keeping, the report said, “Especially in the light of the ground-breaking nature of this research and its profound public health implications, O.R.I. believes that the careless and unacceptable keeping of research records reflects irresponsible laboratory management that has permanently impaired the ability to trace the important steps taken.”
• Dr. Gallo, the report said, also failed to determine in a timely way the exact origin of some of the crucial cells in which he grew the finicky virus. Like the viruses themselves, the cells were also found to have been borrowed from another scientist without giving him due credit in the paper. Later Dr. Gallo also refused to share the cells freely with other scientists trying to duplicate the important work, the report said.
Inquiries Begun in 1989
The dispute over Dr. Gallo’s claims became so linked to national scientific prestige that the Presidents of France and the United States attempted to end the conflict in 1987 when they agreed to a 50-50 split of credit and patent royalties from work with the AIDS virus and the blood test to detect it.
But the issue did not go away, and Federal investigations were begun in 1989, after a reporter, John Crewdson, of the Chicago Tribune wrote a 50,000-word article laying out many of the charges against Dr. Gallo and his laboratory.
An initial Federal inquiry was conducted by the Office of Scientific Integrity at the Institutes of Health. That office examined all of the notes from Dr. Gallo’s laboratory on the AIDS research and interviewed scores of people involved in the work. That office’s report was turned over to the Office of Research Integrity.
Dr. Gallo has denied any wrongdoing in the most vehement terms. He has also alleged that there is a conspiracy to discredit him and asked why it is only his laboratory being investigated, and not that of Dr. Luc Montagnier, the French laboratory leader who has largely escaped detailed scrutiny.
What’s at Stake
In the great public health catastrophe of AIDS, the story of how the virus that causes AIDS was isolated and a test for the presence developed might be of only historical interest were it not for the fierce and unyielding pride of the researchers and the millions of dollars the two Governments receive annually in royalties from the manufacturers of the blood tests.
In a recent plea to the American Government, lawyers for the Institut Pasteur in Paris, where the French work was done, asked the United States to turn over half of the profits from the blood test – about $50 million since 1985.
Dr. Gallo earns about $100,000 a year from the royalties on the blood test, as does his French counterpart, Dr. Montagnier.
Michael Epstein, a lawyer for the Institut Pasteur, said in a telephone interview today that in light of today’s report the French would ask the United States to renegotiate its agreement giving equal credit to each country, so as to assign a larger share to France.
“this ought to move the U.S. Government to action,” he said. “Dr. Gallo has always told us that he was never able to grow L.A.V. One of the most important reasons why Pasteur settled the dispute in 1987 was that Dr. Gallo told us that and said there was no evidence to the contrary. Now even the U.S. Government is saying that he knowingly lied.”
The new report reversed the findings by Dr. Bernadine Healy, director of the National Institute of Health and Dr. Gallo’s superior. After receiving the report from the Office of Scientific Integrity, she concluded in September 1991 that Dr. Gallo did a number of things wrong but was not guilty of the most serious charge, that of scientific misconduct.
Investigators at National Institutes of Health and in Congress disagreed, as did a panel of independent scientists. *

Years of Scientific Dispute
1983 French scientist under Luc Montagnier at Pasteur Institute report discovery of a virus that might be the cause of AIDS.
1984 Ignoring French claim, U.S. scientists at National Institutes of Health under Dr. Robert C. Gallo announce discovery of such a virus and proof that it causes AIDS.
1985 A blood test for antibodies to the AIDS virus is licensed. The French sue the U.S. Government over the credit for the discovery of the virus.
1987 President Ronald Reagan and Prime Minister Jacques Chirac announce an agreement on sharing credit and divide royalties for the blood test.
1989 A Chicago Tribune article suggests that Dr. Gallo improperly took credit for the Montagnier discovery.
MARCH 1990 A Tribune report asserts that Dr. Gallo’s virus was probably identical to the Pasteur Institute virus.
OCTOBER 1990 the National Institute of Health says it will open a full-scale investigation of the matter by the Office of Scientific Integrity because a preliminary investigation suggested the possibility of misconduct.
MAY 1991 Dr. Gallo formally concedes that the viral cultures were probably contaminated by the French samples but maintains that he is a co-discoverer.
SEPTEMBER 1991: Preliminary report by Office of Scientific Integrity finds evidence of misconduct by Dr. Gallo. Final report holds that he is not guilty of misconduct but deserves censure for permitting lapses and misrepresentations by those under him.
MARCH 1992 New investigation of charges of perjury and patent fraud announced by Inspector General of Department of Health and Human Services, the General Accounting Office and a house subcommittee.
DEC. 30 1992 Report of Office of Research Integrity of Department of Health and Human Services says Dr. Gallo grew a sample of Montagnier’s virus in his own laboratory, misled colleagues to gain credit for himself.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS: DEATH BY PRESCRIPTION
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:43:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/hkslahprotease.htm

AIDS: DEATH BY PRESCRIPTION
By Heinrich Kremer, Stefan Lanka & Alfred Hässig
Continuum, July/Aug. 1996

Protease inhibitors and antiviral drugs with mitochondrial toxicity: AIDS treatment with consecutive death.
The advertising drums are beaten hard all over the world today. The same doctors are calling for obedient candidates for their experiments and holding out the same promise of a cure who have poisoned countless AIDS patients by administering the DNA blocker AZT for the past ten years in an attempt to hunt down the phantom HI virus.
The same doctors are now trying to conjure up a substance from the test tube under the magic name of ‘protease inhibitor’ and to market it as having a limitless cure potential, although nobody in fact knows what long-term reactions this molecule, which has never been tested on man, may cause in the living organism.
The victims and perpetrators have only recently come to realise that AZT (also known as Zidovudine or Retrovir) has, in countless cases, brought about the inevitable and slow asphyxiation of the patient’s body cells, which are in particular need of oxygen and hence the equally inevitable death by poisoning of those persons who are stigmatised as HIV-positive or diagnosed as suffering from AIDS and who trust their doctors. Despite that realisation, new test candidates are already being sought who will be voluntarily prepared, through fear of death suggested by the medical profession, not only to swallow AZT in combination with allied toxic substances, but in addition to take an inhibitor which has an incalculable impact on cell metabolism.
A guarantee of success is secured in advance, as with AZT, because any fatal ‘secondary effects’ of the mixture are described as an outcome of the phantom HIV infection. These are the selfsame laboratory doctors and clinical practitioners who for years abused the confidence of anxious AIDS patients with the assertion that AZT would reliably, and with total certainty, prevent the proliferation of their ‘phantom’ HIV.
In reality the substance AZT is absorbed by a primary route through the DNA gamma-polymerase into the energy centre of all body cells, the mitochondria. Without the activity of the mitochondria as former bacteria, no body cell can produce the necessary energy from oxygen and make it available for the whole cell metabolism in the bound state in adenosine triphosphate (ATP).
The doctors who prescribe AZT have, however, denied this established fact and wrongly diagnosed the fatal consequences of AZT medication as the sequels of AIDS following a prior “HIV infection”. For example, clinical manifestations such as the wasting syndrome, HIV encephalopathy, cardiomyopathy, atrophy of the skeletal muscular system and opportunistic infections of all kinds affecting the patients are declared to be tragic consequences of AIDS.
AZT manifestly also damages the mitochondria of the same microbes (protozoa and fungi) which have become adjusted to the cellular metabolism of the body in the course of evolution without being normally pathogenic. In the case of serious damage to their energy production they may, however, undergo mutation into aggressive pathogens and may, known as opportunistic infections. The true opportunists therefore are the AIDS doctors who prescribe AZT. They have sought to drive out devils with Beelzebub!
And by doing so they demonstrate their ignorance of fundamental biological processes in the human organism.
But the dogmatic AIDS doctors have invented new tricks. Although, despite all the assertion to the contrary, no scientist has ever demonstrably produced a genome of the imaginary HIV which would be capable of causing infection they announce that they have traced minute fragments of the genetic material of HIV in RNA form and enriched these fragments; now they claim to be able to determine the precise quantity of HIV in the individual patient’s blood serum. lt remains a secret of the AIDS doctors to explain how they are able to identify the part as a whole, without ever having seen the whole. By the same token, researchers could conclude from the sight of a footprint on the banks of Loch Ness that the monster of the same name really does exist.
But they go on to develop a destructive logic on the basis of such arbitrary definitions. As the doctors claim on the pars pro toto principle that they can quantitatively determine the active amount of the HI virus in the individual stigmatised patient, they now prescribe “appropriate” quantities of AZT and similar toxic substances as a cocktail for the patient. A sufferer who is purported to have many fragments of the messenger substances of the genetic material of the HIV phantom in his or her blood serum, is described as an unfavourable case and receives the poison cocktail in correspondingly high doses; sooner or later the patient will be unable to escape his or her predicted fate because of the fatal toxic effects of the “medication”, especially as. depending on the individual patient’s reaction, the poison cocktails are varied and supplemented by protease inhibitors.
The purported “viral load” hides nothing but the measurement of particular messenger substances (RNA) in the blood plasma of selected patients. Sequences which resemble those that are defined as HIV-specific are then demonstrated. But it must be realised that such messenger substances occur in thousands of different variations, reflecting perfectly normal biochemical processes in the body, thousands of which take place simultaneously and in coordinated fashion in the metabolic interplay. Fluctuations, i.e. the increased or reduced occurrence of the sequences, are perfectly normal in this complex interplay of thousands of simultaneous metabolic processes. In the case of persons with a heightened cellular metabolism, e.g. persons under celldestructive medication (AZT, ddI etc.) and those suffering from multiple infections, these molecules may sometimes occur with a higher degree of probability, precisely because of the metabolic acceleration. The isolated presentation of measurements of a particular kind of sequence, which remains in any case totally impossible to quantify, is therefore clinically irrelevant in the absence of comparison with other molecules of this kind. There are also no comparative values which would enable any significance whatever to be attributed to these relative measurements.
Proteases are in fact protein enzymes which split protein molecules into the length required in each particular case by the metabolism. They are naturally rendered inactive within and outside the body cells by special inhibiting molecules until they are recovered by complex interactions between many different molecules. The body constantly produces such protease inhibitors, e.g. heparin and the heparinoids. The HIV hunters now claim to have produced protease inhibitors in the test tube which will specifically only inhibit those proteases that are said to be responsible for the proliferation of the hypothetical HIV. They want to measure the success of these protease inhibitors by a quantified reduction of the arbitrarily defined viral load (see above) and the relative increase of the T-helper cells.
ln other words, one fiction (virus blocking) is legitimated by another (viruslcquantification) The temporary increase of T-helper cells is brought about by the partial displacement of cells of this type from the bone marrow and other compartments into the bloodstream through temporary inhibition of the catabolic metabolism, which predominates in “HIV positive” patients.
However, in reality it is to be feared that sooner or later the unphysiological intervention in the complex interplay of body cell growth factors through artificial protease inhibitors will disturb equally vital functions of the basic tissue and cells, together with their mitochondrial energy centres, as is already the case when AZT and allied nucleoside-analogues are administered. However, as no animal model is available for preliminary clinical testing, the “HIV-positive” patients and “AIDS-sufferers” who go in fear of death must put their life on the line. Every test subject should therefore be aware that treatment with cocktails of AZT and allied toxic substances plus protease inhibitors may be equivalent to joining a suicide squad with a time fuse.
Finally, attention is drawn to the healthy organism where proteases and antiproteases are in equilibrium. Heparinoids at the cell surface are the normal antiproteases. An imbalance can be corrected by oral administration of heparinoids in the form of extracts of cartilage (chondroitinsulfate) and agar extracted from seaweeds. We suggest that anti-“HIV”-positive individuals take advantage of this simple and cheap possibility to correct a possible deficiency of antiproteases. *
Dr. Heinrich Kremer M.D. was medical director of the Specialist Clinic for Juvenile and Young Adult Drug Offenders for five German counties, including Berlin, Bremen, and Hamburg. With the German virologist Dr. Stefan Lanka he initiated the Research Group for Investigative Medicine and Journalism, reg!med. Immunologist Prof. Alfred Hässig, Professor Emeritus at the University of Bern, is a former Director of the Swiss Red Cross Transfusion Sevice, and former President of the Board of Trustees of the International Society of Blood Transfusion. With colleagues he formed the Study Group for Nutrition and Immunity.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] HIV precedes full blown AIDS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:41:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VMANN, I am sorry but I strongly disagree with you that HIV does not cause AIDS. The following includes only some of the reasons why.
This is not a new virus. We have known that individuals who are positive for HIV have pretty high incidence of developing full blown AIDS in the future.
Callie

The acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) was first recognized in 1981 and has since become a major worldwide pandemic. AIDS is caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). By leading to the destruction and/or functional impairment of cells of the immune system, notably CD4+ T cells, HIV progressively destroys the body’s ability to fight infections and certain cancers.
An HIV-infected person is diagnosed with AIDS when his or her immune system is seriously compromised and manifestations of HIV infection are severe. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) currently defines AIDS in an adult or adolescent age 13 years or older as the presence of one of 26 conditions indicative of severe immunosuppression associated with HIV infection, such as Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP), a condition extraordinarily rare in people without HIV infection. Most other AIDS-defining conditions are also “opportunistic infections” which rarely cause harm in healthy individuals. A diagnosis of AIDS also is given to HIV-infected individuals when their CD4+ T-cell count falls below 200 cells/cubic millimeter (mm3) of blood. Healthy adults usually have CD4+ T-cell counts of 600-1,500/mm3 of blood. In HIV-infected children younger than 13 years, the CDC definition of AIDS is similar to that in adolescents and adults, except for the addition of certain infections commonly seen in pediatric patients with HIV.
AIDS and HIV infection are invariably linked in time, place and population group.
Historically, the occurence of AIDS in human populations around the world has closely followed the appearance of HIV. In the United States, the first cases of AIDS were reported in 1981 among homosexual men in New York and California, and retrospective examination of frozen blood samples from a U.S. cohort of gay men showed the presence of HIV antibodies as early as 1978, but not before then. Subsequently, in every region, country and city where AIDS has appeared, evidence of HIV infection has preceded AIDS by just a few years (CDC. MMWR 1981;30:250; CDC. MMWR 1981;30:305; Jaffe et al. Ann Intern Med 1985;103:210; U.S. Census Bureau; UNAIDS).
Many studies agree that only a single factor, HIV, predicts whether a person will develop AIDS.
Other viral infections, bacterial infections, sexual behavior patterns and drug abuse patterns do not predict who develops AIDS. Individuals from diverse backgrounds, including heterosexual men and women, homosexual men and women, hemophiliacs, sexual partners of hemophiliacs and transfusion recipients, injection-drug users and infants have all developed AIDS, with the only common denominator being their infection with HIV (NIAID, 1995).
In cohort studies, severe immunosuppression and AIDS-defining illnesses occur almost exclusively in individuals who are HIV-infected.
For example, analysis of data from more than 8,000 participants in the Multicenter AIDS Cohort Study (MACS) and the Women’s Interagency HIV Study (WIHS) demonstrated that participants who were HIV-seropositive were 1,100 times more likely to develop an AIDS-associated illness than those who were HIV-seronegative. These overwhelming odds provide a clarity of association that is unusual in medical research (MACS and WIHS Principal Investigators, 2000).

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] VIRAL LOAD OF CRAP
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:39:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/chjppcrap.htm

VIRAL LOAD OF CRAP
By Paul Philpott & Christine Johnson
Reappraising AIDS October 1996

For those who still think that HIV causes AIDS, the latest fad — along with protease inhibitors — is “viral load.” There was a time not so long ago when one of the best arguments against the HIV theory was that there simply was not enough HIV in AIDS patients to account for any disease. Actually, it’s still one of the best arguments! No, you say? You’ve heard there’s some new technique that finds tons of HIV — high viral load — in AIDS patients? The old virus-counting method just wasn’t sensitive enough, they say. Here we take a look at this new technique, and find it sadly lacking. For one thing, it doesn’t measure HIV, it measures RNA associated with HIV. For another, nearly all of the RNA it finds is manufactured by the test itself! The load of HIV it measures is imaginary, and the theory it has spawned is, well, a load of crap.
In early 1995 research teams lead by David Ho [1] of New York University’s Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center and George Shaw [2] of the University of Alabama published adjacent papers in _Nature_. These papers were hailed as disproving the assertion that HIV is not active enough to cause the depletion of T4 cells observed in AIDS. Ho and Shaw claimed to have found an average of over 100,000 HIVs per mL of peripheral blood in their respective cohorts of AIDS patients. This was big news because all previous attempts to quantify HIV blood concentrations came up with averages of only about ten viruses per mL. [3]
Four years earlier, in 1991, two other research teams had made a similar claim, reporting that they found “massive covert HIV infections lurking in the lymph nodes” of AIDS patients. That also was big news because all previous attempts to quantify the fraction of T4 cells infected by HIV in AIDS patients had come up with a paltry average of only about one-per-500. [3]
Before the “lurking lymph node” and Ho/Shaw papers, HIV enthusiasts had a very hard time explaining how HIV could possibly cause AIDS. Not only had HIV shown up in low blood concentrations and in small fractions of cells, it had demonstrated itself to be non-cytotoxic, meaning that when it replicates, it does so without killing its host cell. When other viruses cause disease, they replicate in a manner that destroys the host cell, and are so prolific they show up at concentrations of hundreds of thousands to millions per mL of circulating blood, and infect one-third to two-thirds of all target cells. [3]
So by existing standards of virology, HIV should have been dismissed as a non-pathogen. Since all the early AIDS patients were shown to have unusual, biologically significant health factors such as street drug consumption, blood transfusions, and hemophilia, there really was no reason to pursue HIV as the only possible cause. But instead that’s just what happened.
TWO-FRONT WAR
The virus hunters needed to explain how HIV, a biochemically inactive virus, could cause devastating disease. They set off in two directions.
Some went searching for mechanisms to explain how a virus (a non-cytotoxic one) could cause the death of more cells than it infected. The others, including Ho and Shaw, went searching for HIV itself, hoping to find large amounts of it by mining untapped areas of the body and using new instruments.
The first direction led only to unverified ponderings: What if HIV-infected cells bumped into uninfected cells, and imparted to them a “kiss of death,” causing them to commit “cellular suicide” (known as apoptosis)? What if, by infecting even a few T4 cells, HIV caused T8 cells to kill all T4 cells, even those not infected?
Both of these ideas were warmly received and seriously considered by the best academic journals and the medical professoriate at large. Apparently nobody noticed that there were no confirmatory data. [3,4] Nor did anybody ask a very simple question: Why, if either of these ideas were true, did the many common viruses that infect immune cells — including some harbored by a majority of humans — do so without causing AIDS? [5]
The dearth of data and logical fallacy of these ideas should have marooned them. Instead they are both considered viable, though they’re no longer heard above the din of fabulous reports generated by scientists claiming to have finally uncovered lots of HIV.
IN SEARCH OF HIV
The HIV treasure hunters staked their first big claim in 1993, when _Nature_ published tandem papers, one by the University of Minnesota’s Ashley T. Haase, [6] the other by Anthony Fauci, [7] the government’s lead HIV researcher. Most previous HIV excavators looked only in the easy-to-access peripheral blood, the stuff that comes out when you prick your finger. These authors removed the lymph nodes — in which a majority of immune cells reside — from the bodies of HIV-positive subjects, some with AIDS, some without. The authors claimed to have found “massive” amounts of HIV-infected T4 cells there, and confirmed that the general circulation contained very little. “Massive covert infection,” Haase’s team called it.
Immediately HIV was accepted as the agent responsible for wiping out the T4 population by some novel, unspecified process somehow limited to the lymph nodes.
The Ho/Shaw studies arrived two years later, in 1995, also in the form of adjacent papers published in _Nature_. [1,2] Using a new virus-counting technique, they claimed to have found “massive” amounts of HIV (as opposed to infected cells) in the peripheral blood of AIDS patients, and also specified a “covert” mechanism of AIDS pathogenesis.
THE “NEW VIEW” IS BORN
Ho and Shaw combined their claims with those made in the lymph node papers and developed the “New View of HIV” [8] (also known as the “viral load hypothesis”) which claims that:
1. Although infected cells do not die as a result of HIV replication, HIV replication is hyperactive. Infected cells churn out huge numbers of new HIV, resulting in a large portion of T4 cells in the lymph nodes becoming infected.
2. T8 cells, which kill any host cell harboring an active (virus-producing) infection, kill the T4 cells that are actively producing HIV.
3. Uninfected T4 cells replicate quickly in order to replace those killed by the T8 cells.
4. Because this process occurs quickly, few infected cells ever get a chance to make it to the general circulation. As a result, clinicians drawing blood samples had previously concluded, erroneously, that only a low percentage of T4 cells are HIV-infected.
5. Although few infected cells ever make it out of the lymph nodes, lots of HIV does, and it is this HIV that Ho and Shaw claim to count with their new technique.
6. Over time — about a decade — the T4 population wears down trying to replace all of its members killed by the T8 cells.
7. There is no latency period for HIV. From the moment of initial infection, there is hyperactive HIV replication that quickly spreads to a large portion of T4 cells in the lymph nodes. This “massive covert infection,” and the hyperactive “turnover” of T4 cells and HIV, continues unabated throughout a decade or more of clinical latency (no symptoms), into AIDS, and ultimately causes the patient to die.
According to this new view, the course of AIDS is best monitored by using the Ho/Shaw technique for measuring “viral load.” Adherents recommend treatment immediately upon infection with powerful “antivirals,” including old ones like AZT and new ones like protease inhibitors, and judge the efficacy of these drugs by the impact on “viral load.”
DEBUNKING VIRAL LOAD
Ho and Shaw’s viral load concept requires — even among symptom-free people who test HIV-positive — that there be massive HIV infections in the lymph nodes, that HIV be hyperactive, and that HIV be present at high levels in the circulating blood. But the viral load theory is falsified by both data and logic.
HIV-positive people, even if they have AIDS, tend to have only insignificant HIV infections in their lymph nodes, even according to Haase and Fauci’s own data:
1. Hasse studied just four HIV positive patients, three AIDS-free subjects who died of injection drug overdose, and one homosexual who died of “AIDS” while taking AZT. Although on average one-per-five lymph node T4 cells were HIV-infected (a hundred times more than the one-per-500 normally found in the periphery), one of the drug injectors had no infected cells at all. Only one-per-500 of the lymph node T4 cells were actively infected (one-per-100 of the one-per-five that were infected). Yet only actively infected cells qualify as being relevant to the viral load mechanism, because only actively infected T4 cells are killed by T8 cells.
2. Inexplicably, of the 12 patients Fauci studied, immune cell infection ratios are given only for three of them, and even then these data report mononuclear cells in general, as opposed to just those mononuclear cells with the CD4 markers that are targeted by HIV. For the three selected subjects, Fauci reported HIV-infection ratios ranging from one-per-100 to one-per-10,000 mononuclear cells in the lymph nodes for the two who were symptom-free, and between one-per-ten and one-per-100 for the subject with AIDS. He commented that, compared with the infection ratios found in the peripheral blood, this is “in agreement with our previous study [which showed that] there is between 5 and 10 times greater frequency of infected cells in the lymphoid tissue” for symptom-free people who are HIV-positive. Given the very small ratios Fauci found, this paper does not show anything resembling massive HIV infections in the lymph nodes.
3. In Fauci’s “previous study,” [9] he examined six HIV-positive subjects, five with no symptoms, one with AIDS. Again, he presented data for only some of the subjects, but this time the data were for T4 cells only. “We determined that one-per-100 lymph node CD4 T lymphocytes were infected with HIV, whereas one-per-1,000 were infected in peripheral blood,” he concluded, hardly a case for “massive infection.”
4. Fauci and Haase propose that HIV infection is different from other viral infections because it is hidden in the lymph nodes. Yet neither they nor anybody else show HIV as being more confined to the lymph nodes than any other virus that infects immune cells. In fact, concentrations of all such viruses are always greater in the lymph nodes than in the circulation. No data have ever been presented showing that the proportion of HIV-infected cells in AIDS patients is greater than the proportion of immune cells infected by these other viruses.
5. All other viruses believed to cause disease do so only when they infect about one-per-three target cells — or more — and do so actively, [3] meaning virus is being produced. Although Haase found an infection ratio in three of his patients that was significant, the ratio of cells actively infected was trivial. And Fauci, who examined more subjects than Haase in two different studies, could find only insignificant ratios of inactive infections.
6. Significant infections in the lymph nodes cause a noticeable swelling that is usually not found in AIDS patients. Fauci and Haase did not even attempt to reconcile their claims of “massive” lymph node infections with the lack of this clinical symptom.
There is neither high HIV activity nor high viral load in HIV-positive people, even if they have AIDS, even according to Ho and Shaw’s own data:
1. Rather than being hyperactive, HIV is one of the least active viruses ever studied. In the test tube, it is very difficult to induce infected cells to produce any HIV at all. [3,4] Usually, powerful, artificial stimulating agents called “mitogens” must be used to coax HIV to reproduce. Yet in the test tube infected cells produce much more virus than they do in the patient, where an active immune system works to suppress viral expression. [3] There is no rationale for why a virus that is dormant in the test tube could be active in the body.
2. There is no large number of circulating HIV as Ho and Shaw claim, although this is the linchpin of their theory. Rather than look for whole HIV, Ho and Shaw’s technique looks for HIV RNA, the genetic material found in the viral core. They assume that since each HIV contains two HIV RNAs, there must be one HIV for every two HIV RNAs they count. But the large amount of HIV RNA they report is found only after sending blood samples through polymerase chain reactions (PCR). PCR is the “DNA fingerprinting” technology which takes tiny numbers of genetic molecules (RNA or DNA) and turns them into huge quantities. This is how police can transform a speck of blood into a large sample of criminal evidence. One of the most startling aspects of the Ho/Shaw papers is that they reported finding over a hundred thousand HIVs per mL of peripheral blood, whereas all previous studies had found on average about ten, far too little for pathogenic effect. Although they don’t mention it in their famous viral load papers, on other studies both Ho [10] and Shaw [11] quantified HIV using standard virus-counting techniques and compared the results with their new method of counting HIV RNA following PCR. The result: 100,000 HIVs counted using their PCR technique corresponded to less than ten actual HIVs! [12] In other words, Ho and Shaw’s subjects had the same low numbers of HIV that have always been observed in AIDS patients. But if there are only ten HIVs, how did Ho and Shaw measure an extra 99,990? Some of these are HIVs that have been neutralized by antibodies, some are defective HIVs (those that did not form correctly), and some are free-floating HIV RNA. Though none of these entities has any pathological capacity, the viral load technique confuses them all with whole, infectious virus, the only kind that has any biological significance. Most of Ho and Shaw’s “viral load,” though, is probably just a mirage, huge numbers of HIV RNA bits generated by PCR, not whole RNA generated by HIV. [12] This explanation reconciles all the facts: a slow-replicating virus that infects only a very small fraction of cells (even in the lymph nodes) and is present in infectious form only at tiny concentrations.
3. If there were a lot of HIV in the periphery, it should infect lots of T4 cells. Instead, Ho and Shaw acknowledge there are few T4 cells infected in the periphery.
4. No explanation is given as to why the standard virus-counting techniques (that show low HIV levels in AIDS patients) should be discarded in favor of Ho and Shaw’s new PCR method.
5. The Ho/Shaw PCR technique has never been validated by counting HIV RNA prior to application of PCR. After PCR is used, the Ho/Shaw method uses a conventional RNA-counting technique. If there is really lots of HIV, there should be lots of HIV RNA before application of PCR. Why not skip the PCR and just count the HIV RNA that is already there? Ho and Shaw probably use PCR for the same reason that everyone, including the police, use it: their samples don’t contain as much genetic material as they want.
6. Since all the subjects examined by Ho and Shaw had late stage AIDS, even if there were high HIV loads, there is no rationale for concluding that this would also be the case in symptom-free patients. Yet it is essential for the Ho/Shaw thesis that HIV be active in the years of gradual immune suppression leading to AIDS. Otherwise, they are left to explain how it is that HIV can be inactive while driving the patient from symptom-free status to AIDS.
The viral load concept requires that HIV be an extraordinary virus, but no data are ever presented comparing HIV to other viruses:
1. There are many common viruses that infect various immune cells, including T4 cells. Among them, cytomegalovirus (which infects 40% of all Americans), Epstein-Barr virus (50%), hepatitis B virus (5%), herpes simplex virus-1 (65%), and -2 (40%). [4] T8 cells kill any cells harboring active infections with these viruses. Since these viruses do not cause AIDS, there is no reason to suppose that HIV might. And since these viruses are cytotoxic and actively infect one-third or more of their target cells, they are better candidates than HIV for AIDS causation.
2. These other viruses cause disease only when they manifest as acute infections, infecting about one-third or more of the cells they target, and are present in the blood at concentrations in excess of many thousand per mL. There is no logical reason to suppose that HIV can cause disease when actively infecting only tiny fractions of target cells and showing up only at trace blood concentrations.
3. Ho and Shaw imply that HIV is more active than these other viruses, but present no comparative data. However, the only available data for HIV show it to be very inactive, which is consistent with the low fractions of actively-infected cells that Fauci and Haase found, and the low levels of real virus that Ho and Shaw found.
4. All the early AIDS patients were positive for these other viruses. [5] When these viruses show up as acute infections in AIDS patients, HIV advocates consider them to be “opportunists,” springing out of dormancy to take advantage of an immune system suppressed by HIV. Even if AIDS patients all had acute HIV infections (which clearly they do not), there is no logical reason to suppose that HIV is not just another opportunist taking advantage of an immune system suppressed by something else (street drugs, pharmaceutical drugs, etc.).
5. There exist no published data documenting the results of using the Ho/Shaw PCR technique for counting these other viruses either in AIDS patients or anybody else. Most people positive for these other viruses do not have the diseases they are known to cause, so they do not suffer from acute infections. Would Ho and Shaw “find” in such people the same high concentrations of these other viruses that their new technique registers for HIV in AIDS patients? If so, this would confirm that their technique inaccurately indicates acute infections even in people harboring trace amounts of sleeping viruses.
Fauci, Haase, Ho and Shaw all fail to prove a role for HIV in AIDS because they fail to show that in AIDS patients there is an appreciable amount of HIV or HIV-infected cells, or why HIV should be considered different from any of the many other viruses that infect immune cells without causing AIDS. In addition, the Ho/Shaw method of measuring “viral load” does not measure HIV blood concentrations, and therefore is of dubious value as a diagnostic tool. *
References
[1] Ho, Nature 373, 1995, p123.
[2]Wei, Nature 373, 1995, p117.
[3] Duesberg, Inventing the AIDS Virus.
[4] Papadopulos-Eleopulos, Genetica 1995, p5.
[5] Root-Bernstein, Rethinking AIDS.
[6] Embretson, Nature 362, 1993, p359.
[7] Pantaleo, Nature 362, 1993, p355.
[8] Maddox, Nature 373, 1993, p189.
[9] Pantaleo, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 88, 1991, p9838.
[10] Chao, New Engl. J. Med. 332, 1995, p201.
[11] Piatak, Science 259, 1993, p1749.
[12] Duesberg, Nature 375, 1995, p197.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] INHIBITORS OF HIV PROTEASE USELESS AGAINST AIDS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:39:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/drinhibit.htm

INHIBITORS OF HIV PROTEASE USELESS AGAINST AIDS
BECAUSE HIV DOESN’T CAUSE AIDS
By David Rasnick
Reapprasing AIDS August 1996

David Rasnick earns his living as a designer of protease inhibitors, the class of substances touted as the latest anti-AIDS miracle drug. Dr. Rasnick agrees that these drugs do indeed block HIV protease, and thus stop HIV replication. But he is sure that this action can have no effect on the course of AIDS. Why? Because people diagnosed with AIDS are sick from a variety of non-contagious factors, not HIV. Here he explains.
As everyone knows, what is now called AIDS was first noticed around 1980, among gay men in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York. I had just moved to the San Francisco Bay area that fall to help establish a small bio-tech company. Within months of my arrival, stories were going around about a strange new disease that was affecting the immune systems of gay men. It was exhilarating that such an urgent and complex scientific conundrum appeared at a time when I had just reached a measure of confidence in my powers as a scientist–and there I was right in the middle of it, the most stimulating medical puzzle of the century. I haven’t stopped learning and thinking about AIDS since then.
Whenever I gathered with other scientists for whatever reason, we invariably got around to discussing AIDS. What made AIDS such an interesting scientific subject was that it was bizarre and seemed to break all the rules. The technical aspects of this unprecedented disease marveled us. However, being an organic chemist–not an immunologist or physician–I felt there was little I could contribute scientifically toward unraveling the mysteries of AIDS. That inadequacy in no way dampened my enthusiasm or interest in studying the new disease, however.
Then Robert Gallo unveiled his HIV at the famous April, 1984 press conference. All the speculating, discussing, and hypothesizing about what causes AIDS ended in applause and backslapping. Gallo’s virus provided clarity, and even purpose for me personally, in the form of a subject for my art as an organic chemist. The example of the other retroviruses suggested that a likely constituent of HIV was an aspartyl protease. As a designer of protease inhibitors, I immediately began studying the possibility of designing inhibitors of HIV protease, even before such an enzyme had been characterized.
About six months into the project I gave up trying to design inhibitors of HIV protease, figuring others had already cornered the market. A friend at Abbott Laboratories, Jake Plattner, had for years been designing anti-hypertensives by developing inhibitors of renin, a human aspartyl protease that regulates blood pressure. Jake already had thousands of these compounds in the bottle and I was sure some would inhibit HIV’s protease as well. Today, Jake’s group is one of the leading producers of HIV protease inhibitors in the world. One of his inhibitors was recently approved by the FDA for treatment of AIDS when used in conjunction with AZT and other nucleoside analogs.
I’m glad I pulled out of the race for HIV protease inhibitors. It wasn’t long before I had serious doubts about the viral hypothesis of AIDS. I spent countless hours, as did many scientist throughout the world, devising ingenious explanations for how the so-called AIDS virus (HIV) destroyed the immune systems of its victims. By the end of 1985 the number of exotic hypotheses necessary to account for HIV being the sole cause of AIDS convinced me that something was fundamentally wrong with the basic assumptions that had become entrenched in the mega-institutions of science and medicine. The more I examined HIV, the less it made sense that this wimpy virus could cause such devastation. Sometime in 1987 I realized that HIV could not cause AIDS. Although I couldn’t prove that HIV was innocent at that time, I could show that the arguments for its guilt were unconvincing, though at the time I still thought AIDS might be infectious.
As late as 1988 I had no ideas that there were many other people equally bothered by the inconsistencies of the HIV hypothesis of AIDS until I came across books and articles by such authors as Jad Adams, Jon Rappoport, Harris Coulter, and John Lauritsen. I learned about Peter Duesberg, the UC Berkeley biologist, from these sources. I immediately looked up Duesberg’s 1987 Cancer Research paper refuting the HIV theory of AIDS. After reading it, I felt confident that the HIV theory would soon be discarded as the prevailing view, and replaced by a more logical explanation. Sadly, that still hasn’t happened. I kept studying and thinking, however. The more I looked into it, the more clearly it appeared that AIDS could not be infectious.
So what was it? Conversations with Joan McKenna, a Berkeley physiologist, and Joseph Sonnabend, a New York physician, led me to comfortable ground. They considered AIDS to result from a variety of factors, which perfectly fit the various risk profiles that characterize nearly all AIDS patients: gay men in the “fast lane,” impoverished residents of developing nations, hemophiliacs, etc. Shifting to multiple, combined cases of immune suppression was a psychologically satisfying alternative to the failed hypothesis that pointed to a single cause, HIV. I remained comfortably among the ranks of the multi-factorialists for about five years. Although I did think that malnutrition could cause AIDS by itself, I resisted Duesberg’s proposal that street drugs, AZT, and clotting factor therapy could as well. Such a claim seemed as over-simplified as the HIV theory. However, Peter’s relentless logic and superb arguments eventually eroded my skepticism: for three years now I have become evermore convinced that he is right.
It has taken me 15 years of curiosity, acceptance, doubt, study, understanding, new doubt, followed by new understanding, to come to terms with HIV/AIDS–and I’m a scientist, able to plow through the intimidating technical literature. No wonder the public has bought the contagious AIDS theory. The truth is guarded by experts and hidden by a thick forest of jargon, credentials, and all those papers. The fraud, incompetence and outright lies produced by the cult of HIV have already been documented. But holding the perpetrators accountable will not be easy. The institutions involved in the scandal have had a long time to hide their tracks. The only way the truth is going to get broad public exposure is for journalists to finally do their jobs, to dig up and examine the truth for themselves rather than parrot the unquestioned claims of pharmaceutical flacks and hack scientists. I have little confidence that this will happen anytime soon. Even though Professor Duesberg’s exhaustive exposé Inventing the AIDS Virus masterfully demolishes the HIV hypothesis, I’m afraid we have two or three more years before the “emperor’s new clothes” become embarrassingly apparent to everyone.
In 1989 I decided to do my part by writing a book. There were already a number of excellent titles available that carefully illuminated the HIV/AIDS scandal using thorough referencing to the medical literature. But none had thwarted the HIV media blitz which used catchy slogans and celebrity endorsements rather than boring data. I wanted to try something new: to present the factual story of AIDS in the form of a novel. My thinking is that people may be more inclined to consider the technical hodgepodge of AIDS if it is presented as entertainment. Whether I’m the person to do it this way successfully I don’t know–though I believe the idea is sound. But don’t rush out to grab a copy of Germ of Lies–regrettably, it remains unpublished.
The Kuru Guru and I
I took a break from the laboratory in the fall of 1990 to finish my AIDS novel and spend a short Peace Corps tour in the Chimbu Province of Papua New Guinea teaching science and English. My Peace Corps training was conducted in Goroka in the Eastern Highlands Province, where the now-famous neurological disorder “kuru” was described by the American physician Carlton Gajdusek. Gajdusek, you may recall, speculated that kuru was caused by a hypothetical “slow virus,” a novel concept that won him a Nobel Prize and provided a model and inspiration for the HIV/AIDS theory.
I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, so when I heard about Gajdusek’s scientific institute in Goroka I had to go for a visit. I learned from a local that the “kuru guru” still ran the facility, which is the size of a small community college located three or four blocks from the Goroka airport. As a fellow American scientist who happened to find himself in the highlands of Papua New Guinea, I expected Gajdusek to receive me with the enthusiasm of a long lost relative. He didn’t. I was greeted by a humorless old man who immediately escorted me through the labyrinth of hallways, passing familiar rotovaps, lyophilizers, general lab equipment and a library to what I anticipated would be his office where we could spend an enthusiastic hour or so taking about each other’s science. Instead, the antediluvian gentleman deposited me into the keeping of a very young anthropologist/health-care-worker who nevertheless enthralled me with her stories of helicoptering twice a month to a remote village where a newly discovered tribe was dying out due to extreme infant mortality. I spent less than five minutes with Gajdusek.
He was the first scientist I had ever come across who showed no eagerness to talk shop. It was just unnatural. It is my experience that scientists have an uncontrollable urge to talk about what they do to just about anyone who will listen. Such reticence to talk with a fellow scientist puzzled me until Peter Duesberg and Bryan Ellison explained to me that Gajdusek’s kuru work was as fraudulent as Gallo’s, premised on his own false claims that kuru victims practiced cannibalism and that kuru was infectious. His outlandish tales and “slow virus” theory were apparently accepted and even lauded not because they were supported by data or even logic, but because they permitted microbiologists to blame noninfectious diseases on harmless microbes.
Following the Peace Corps stint, I returned to the lab. In 1993 I began making proteases inhibitors again for the same diseases I worked on in the 1980s. During my “sabbatical,” HIV protease inhibitors had become a hot item. Several of the large drug companies had extensive programs underway. Roche had their inhibitors well into clinical trials. Merck had already spent $500 million on their HIV protease inhibitor program, but the grapevine had it that Merck was seriously thinking of pulling out of the field for a number of reasons. The rumor was short-lived since Merck soon began construction of a plant in southern Georgia to produce commercial quantities of its HIV protease inhibitor. Nevertheless, from private conversations with colleague, I learned that many of them wished they had never gotten involved in HIV work. Some openly acknowledged that HIV protease inhibitors weren’t working and likely never would.
No Mutation to Resistant Forms
In 1994 I attended the Gordon Conference on Proteolytic Enzymes in New Hampshire where HIV protease inhibitor results were discussed. John Kay provided interesting information on the clinical trials of Roche’s HIV protease inhibitor Ro 31-8959. He made the astounding claim that Roche had synthesized 800 tons (that’s right: tons) of this compound. When given the opportunity to change his statement, he stuck to 800 tons. The clinical trail consisted of 400 AIDS patients receiving 2g of the Roche inhibitor per day. After 18 months there was not clinical difference between the group given the protease inhibitor and the controls. Kay announced that Roche was putting an information blackout on further reports on the HIV protease inhibitor clinical trials due to the disappointing results.
The vogue explanation for the failure of the inhibitors to benefit AIDS patients is that HIV replicates so fast that it eventually develops mutant forms of protease that resist the inhibitors. Even to this day, however, no one has ever found a resistant HIV protease in any patient, even in patients that are claimed to have them! The only inhibitor-resistant HIV proteases anybody has ever examined are those produced in the lab using genetic engineering. Nevertheless, the mutation explanation, just like the HIV theory itself, was completely accepted–without question–as soon as it was proposed.
The mutation theory is preposterous, but not just because its premise–that HIV replicates hyperactively–is false. The mutation theory is preposterous because it is illogical. Enzyme inhibitors work only because they are shaped like the substrates the enzymes act upon: when an inhibitor fits snugly into an enzyme’s active site, then the substrate cannot. This is now inhibitors keep an enzyme from performing its task, which in this case is to produce HIV. Imagine one of these resistant, lab-created HIV proteases. It resists inhibitors because its active site is shaped in such a way that inhibitors cannot fit inside. That’s great. But how in the world is the substrate going to fit? Remember, the inhibitor and the substrate have the same shape; they appear identical to the active site, the way a lock cannot tell the difference between a key and a copy of a key.
Yet a representative from Vertex presented a poster showing that some of these lab-created mutants did indeed retain most of their ability to act upon particular substrates. But could such a mutant still produce virus?
I reminded him that in order for an HIV protease to produce a new virus, it had to cleave eight different substrates, and pointed out that the ability to cut just one of those substrates did not represent the overall ability of the enzyme to produce HIV. Yet he was claiming that some of these resistant proteases were as much as 90% effective when compared to non-mutated protease. But these claims of high effectiveness were always for just one of the eight substrates. In every case, the effectiveness on the other substrates was absurdly low, numbers like 0.1%, or 0.01%, or even 0.001%. In order to calculate the total effectiveness of these mutant proteases, you must multiply together all eight percentages. And when you multiply even a very large percentage like 90% by a bunch of tiny percentages like 0.1%, what you end up with is essentially zero.
In other words, these drug-resistant proteases were effectively non-functional. They could not produce viruses.
At the discussion session the next day I argued that the Vertex data did no support the hypothesis that mutations of the HIV protease are responsible for the lack of clinical efficacy of the inhibitors: the drug-resistant proteases were just as inactive as if their active sites were plugged with inhibitors. Other explanations are called for.
I went on to propose that the HIV protease inhibitors were performing as designed–blocking HIV production–without being undermined by the emergence of drug-resistant mutant strains. The reason that these drugs did not alleviate AIDS is that HIV is not the cause of AIDS.
During private discussions, none of my colleagues found any flaws with my reasoning and even thought it was right. I left the meeting thinking that these fellows would continue the analysis where I left off. Well, that, of course, didn’t happen. The HIV protease mutation hypothesis has become more entrenched with time.
None of the inhibitor-resistant mutant HIV proteases reported so far has come anywhere near the minimum level of overall activity necessary to produce relevant numbers of viable virus. It is extremely unlikely that mutations substantial enough to protect the protease against inhibition will at the same time leave virtually unimpaired its ability to produce viable viruses. The conclusion of my analysis is that inhibitor-resistant mutant HIV proteases are very unlikely to contribute to viral viability in vivo. Therefore, the failure of the HIV protease inhibitors to alter the progression of AIDS is not due to inhibitor-resistant mutations of this enzyme. *

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] THE DRUG-AIDS HYPOTHESIS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:37:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/pddrdrugaids.htm

THE DRUG-AIDS HYPOTHESIS
Peter Duesberg (1) and David Rasnick (2)
Continuum Feb./March 1997

(1) Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, 229 Stanley Hall, UC Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720, phone (510) 642-6549, fax (510) 643-6455, email: duesberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu (2) Resident AIDS investigator at UC Berkeley, 229 Stanley Hall, UC Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720, phone (510) 642-6549, fax (415) 826-1241, email: rasnick@mindspring.com

Abstract
The war on the new AIDS epidemic has been a complete failure in terms of public health benefits: 50,000 to 75,000 Americans develop AIDS per year and over $8 billion are spent annually on AIDS research and treatment by the US taxpayer alone, but there is no vaccine, and no effective drug, and not one AIDS patient has been cured. It is proposed here that this failure is the responsibility of the hypothesis that AIDS is caused by a virus named HIV. This hypothesis has monopolized AIDS research and treatment since 1984, but it neither explains nor predicts numerous AIDS facts, nor has it produced any public health benefits. In order to solve AIDS we propose here the drug-AIDS hypothesis. The drug hypothesis holds that all American AIDS diseases that exceed their normal low background are caused by the long-term consumption of recreational drugs, anti-HIV/AIDS drugs or both. This hypothesis is based on the only new health risk to emerge during the past 25 years in America and Europe: the drug epidemic. In America the consumers of recreational drugs such as cocaine, amphetamines, nitrite inhalants, and heroin soared from negligible numbers in the 1970s to currently 20 millions, or 8% of the population. In addition, over 200,000 HIV-positives take since 1987 daily prescriptions of inevitably toxic DNA chain-terminators such as AZT and simultaneously consume many other orthodox and unorthodox, toxic anti-HIV/AIDS medications. All AIDS facts confirm the drug hypothesis: 1) AIDS is new because the drug epidemic is; 2) over 95% of American AIDS patients are long-term users of recreational and anti-viral drugs, because drugs cause AIDS; 3) 9 out of 10 AIDS cases are males because they consume 90% of the drugs; 4) the age distributions of diseases and deaths from drugs and AIDS are both 25 to 54 years because drugs cause AIDS; 5) babies develop AIDS from sharing intravenous drugs with their mothers during pregnancy; 6) Kaposi’s sarcoma as an AIDS disease is restricted to male homosexuals because they use carcinogenic nitrite inhalants as sexual stimulants almost exclusively (98%); 7) termination of drug use has prevented and has even cured pediatric, male homosexual and intravenous drug-AIDS cases. According to the drug-AIDS hypothesis AIDS is preventable by banning anti-HIV/AIDS drugs and by advertising the medical consequences of recreational drugs. Such a program could be as successful as the campaign that has reduced smoking 40% by advertising the medical consequences of tobacco use. The drug-AIDS hypothesis could save 50,000 to 75,000 lives per year, $8 billion that are annually spent unproductively on AIDS research and therapy based on the virus hypothesis, and much of the $15 billion that is annually spent on supply control in the failed War on Drugs by lowering demand with advertisements that drugs cause AIDS. The solution to AIDS and the drug epidemic is as close as a very affordable and testable, independent AIDS hypothesis.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HIV Tests
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:34:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

go to the link for the original articles linked at each line below:

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/index/hivtests.htm
HIV Tests
ELISA, Western Blot, Viral Load

Neville Hodgkinson, ‘New Doubts Over AIDS Infection As HIV Tests Declared Invalid’
Neville Hodgkinson, ‘AIDS: Is Anyone Positive?’
Celia Farber, ‘The HIV Tests’
Celia Farber, ‘How Accurate is the HIV Test?’
Celia Farber, ‘Positively Flawed’
Christine Johnson, ‘Can you really trust the “AIDS test”?’
Christine Johnson, ‘Is Anybody Really Positive?’
Christine Johnson, ‘Mass HIV Testing: A Disaster in the Making’
Christine Johnson, ‘Playing Russian Roulette in the Laboratory’
Christine Johnson, ‘Why the “AIDS Test” Doesn’t Work in Africa’
Christine Johnson, ‘Viral Load and the PCR’
Paul Philpott & Christine Johnson, ‘Viral Load of Crap’
Valendar Turner, ‘Do HIV Antibody Tests Prove HIV Infection?’
Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos et al. ‘Is a Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?’
Eleni Papadopoulos-Eleopulos et al. ‘HIV Antibodies: Further questions and a plea for clarification’
Eleni Papadopoulos-Eleopulos et al. ‘HIV Antibody Tests and Viral Load – More Unanswered Questions and a Further Plea for Clarification’
Roberto Giraldo, ‘Everybody Reacts Positive on the ELISA Test for HIV’
Roberto Giraldo, ‘Tests for HIV are Highly Inaccurate’
Fabio Franci, ‘In Search of HIV: Analysis of the value of the tests used for ‘HIV infection”
Michael Verney-Elliott, ‘Virtual Viral Load Tests’
Matt Irwin, ‘Questions On HIV-Antibody Tests’
Matt Irwin, ‘False Positive Viral Loads’

• Criteria for a positive Western Blot test.
• Factors known to cause false positive test results.
• Quotes from the medical literature.

Scanned Abbott caveat/disclaimer for the 1998 (U.S.) HIV ELISA… (Abbott Axsym system (HIV-1/HIV-2). Abbott Laboratories, Diagnostics Division, 1998. 100 Abbott Park Rd. Abbott Park. Illinois: United States of America.)

Should a physician insist that you, or your child, test, insist that they first sign this document.

See also under HIV ISOLATION

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] SEMEN ACTS AS AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:27:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/nssemen.htm

SEMEN ACTS AS AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT
By Raj Persaud
New Scientist 26 June 2002
Semen makes you happy. That’s the remarkable conclusion of a study comparing women whose partners wear condoms with those whose partners don’t.
The study, which is bound to provoke controversy, showed that the women who were directly exposed to semen were less depressed. The researchers think this is because mood-altering hormones in semen are absorbed through the vagina. They say they have ruled out other explanations.
“I want to make it clear that we are not advocating that people abstain from using condoms,” says Gordon Gallup, the psychologist at the State University of New York who led the team. “Clearly an unwanted pregnancy or a sexually transmitted disease would more than offset any advantageous psychological effects of semen.”
Suicide attempts
His team divided 293 female students into groups depending on how often their partners wore condoms, and assessed their happiness using the Beck Depression Inventory, a standard questionnaire for assessing mood. People who score over 17 are considered moderately depressed.
The team found that women whose partners never used condoms scored 8 on average, those who sometimes used them scored 10.5, those who usually used them scored 15 and those who always used them scored 11.3. Women who weren’t having sex at all scored 13.5.
What’s more, the longer the interval since they last had sex, the more depressed the women who never or sometimes used condoms got. But the time since the last sexual encounter made no difference to the mood of women who usually or always used condoms.
The team also found that depressive symptoms and suicide attempts were more common among women who used condoms regularly compared with those who didn’t. The results will appear in the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior.
And Gallup told New Scientist that his team already has unpublished data from a larger group of 700 women confirming these findings. In this study, the always-use-condoms group were more depressed than the usually-use-condoms group, suggesting the discrepancy in the smaller study was a sampling error, he says.
Alternative explanations
But is it really the semen that affects women’s mood? The researchers say they looked at alternative explanations such as whether women who seldom use condoms took oral contraceptives, how often they had sex, the strength of relationships, and the possibility that having a certain type of personality influenced the decision to use condoms. But none of these factors can explain their findings, they say.
In fact, the results aren’t a complete surprise because semen does contain several mood-altering hormones, including testosterone, oestrogen, follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinising hormone, prolactin and several different prostaglandins. Some of these have been detected in a women’s blood within hours of exposure to semen.
The question many people will ask is whether oral sex could have the same mood-enhancing effects. “Since the steroids in birth control pills survive the digestion process, I would assume that the same holds true for at least some of the chemicals in semen,” Gallup says.
“I understand that among some gay males who have anal intercourse, it is not uncommon to attempt to retain the semen for extended periods of time,” he adds. “Suggesting, of course, that there may be psychological effects.” But further research will be needed to confirm whether exposure to semen through oral or anal sex really does affect mood in heterosexual or homosexual partners.
But why should semen have such an effect? “It makes no sense to me for this phenomenon to have evolved,” says Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist at the Indiana University of Pennsylvania. But Gallup counters that men whose semen promotes long-term mood enhancement might have more chances to indulge in sexual activity.
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS: STOP THE LIES (eat coconuts instead)
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:24:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data2/citations.htm

Dr. Charles Thomas, Molecular Biologist and former Harvard and Johns Hopkins Professor:
“The HIV-causes-AIDS dogma represents the grandest and perhaps the most morally destructive fraud that has ever been perpetrated on young men and women of the Western world,” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“AIDS has been a disease of definition. If we said that it didn’t exist and didn’t pay for it with taxpayers’ money, it would disappear in the background of normal mortality.” (Penthouse April 1994)
“I feel that for scientists to remain silent in the face of all this doubt is tantamount to criminal negligence.” (Spin June 1992)
Dr. Roger Cunningham, Immunologist, Microbiologist and Director of the Centre for Immunology at the State University of New York at Buffalo:
“Unfortunately, an AIDS ‘establishment’ seems to have formed that intends to discourage challenges to the dogma on one side and often insists on following discredited ideas on the other.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Richard Strohman, Professor Emeritus of Cell Biology at the University of California at Berkeley:
“In the old days it was required that a scientist address the possibilities of proving his hypothesis wrong as well as right. Now there’s none of that in standard HIV-AIDS program with all its billions of dollars.” (Penthouse April 1994)
“We need research into possible causes such as drug use and behaviour, not a bankrupt hypothesis.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Mohammad Ali Al-Bayati, Toxicologist and Pathologist, California:
“HIV does not cause AIDS. There is no scientific evidence that HIV can kill infected T4 cells. The true problem is that the leaders of the HIV hypothesis have been ignoring important medical facts and are blindly attributing AIDS to the HIV virus. It is very sad and frustrating to know that the AIDS establishment are giving highly toxic drugs such as AZT to pregnant women even with studies that show the depression in the immune system can be reversed by nutrition. Prescribing anti-viral drugs to AIDS patients is like putting gasoline on a fire”
Dr. Alfred Hässig, Emeritus Professor in Immunology at the University of Bern, former Director Swiss Red Cross blood banks:
“The sentence of death accompanying the medical diagnosis of AIDS should be abolished.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“In the virological research, so much money is invested, and the research people want to stay in that area because if you deviate to research in other directions probably other people come in and must be funded.” (Meditel 1992)
“Virologist have nothing new to offer. They keep coming up with excuses, they find constant growth and change in the virus structure, it evades, attacks, strange things, but none of them has the courage to explain properly how these things could possibly be so.” (Continuum Jan/Feb 1996)
“AZT (anti-viral AIDS medicine) has, in countless cases, brought about the inevitable and slow asphyxiation of the patient’s body cells. The doctors wrongly diagnose the fatal consequences of AZT medication as AIDS following a prior HIV infection. Treatment with AZT and allied toxic substances may be equivalent to joining a suicide squad with a time fuse.”
“It is the duty of every doctor to preserve life at any cost — and not death-curse people based on any test so they are so frightened they kill themselves. I am sad to say that these voodoo methods were practised despite there never being any proof that the detected antibodies are an indication of mortality in all diagnosed people. I consider it medical malpractice to push patients into dying by prophesying an early death. We are medical scientists, not prophets!”
Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology. Former Director of the Department of Viroid Research, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München. Robert Koch Award 1978.
“The result of my intensive literature research shows that so far not one publication exists, in which is being described that HIV has been isolated, purified, and charaterized by the criteria of classical virology.” (Forword Mythos AIDS 2000)
“During the past 20 years HIV-AIDS research has shown to a line of critical scientists again and again that the existence of HIV has not been proven without doubt, and that both from a aetiological (causal), and a epidemiological view, it can not be responsible for the immunodeficiency AIDS. In view of the general accepted HIV/AIDS hypothesis this appeared to me so unbelievable that I decided to investigate it myself. After three years of intensive and, above all, critical studies of the relevant original literature, as an experienced virologist and molecular biologist I came to the following surprising conclusion: Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical virology.” (Letter to Süddeutsche Zeitung Oct. 2000)
Dr. Walter Gilbert, Professor in Molecular Biology, 1980 Nobel prize for chemistry:
“I would not be surprised if there were another cause of AIDS and even that HIV is not involved.” (Omni June 1993)
“[Duesberg] is absolutely correct in saying that no one has proven that AIDS is caused by the AIDS virus. And he is absolutely correct that the virus cultured in the laboratory may not be the cause of AIDS.” (Hippocrates Sept./Oct. 1988)
“The community as a whole doesn’t listen patiently to critics who adopt alternative viewpoints. Although the great lesson of history is that knowledge develops through the conflict of viewpoints.” (Meditel 1990)
Dr. Albert Sabin, Virologist:
“I think the views of a person like Dr. Duesberg are terribly, terribly important, and we must pay attention to them.” (Oakland Tribune 31 Jan. 1988)
Dr. Rush Wayne, M.A., Molecular Biology, Harvard University, PhD, Biochemistry, University of California:
“While first learning about the AIDS controversy, I read whatever I could on both sides. I have not found an instance, when both sides have been able to state their complete case, where the mainstream AIDS view has held up. On the contrary, much of the mainstream view seems to be based on bad research and fallacious reasoning.”
Dr. Andrew Herxheimer, Emeritus Professor of Pharmacology, UK Cochrane Centre, Oxford:
“I think zidovudine [AZT] was never really evaluated properly and that its efficacy has never been proved, but it’s toxicity certainly is important. And I think it has killed a lot of people. Especially at the high doses. I personally think it not worth using alone or in combination at all.” (Continuum Oct. 2000)
Michael Ellner, Medical Hypnotherapist, President of HEAL New York:
“I have seen the constant terror, and programming to get sick and die, that people at risk for developing AIDS face. I am certain that the hypothesis that long-term drug use is primary cause of what is now called AIDS is far more likely to prove true than the failed notion that AIDS is caused by a germ.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Steven Jonas, Professor of Preventive Medicine, Suny Stony Brook, NY:
“Evidence is rapidly accumulating that the original theory of HIV is not correct.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Lawrence Bradford, Biology Professor in Atchinson, Kansas:
“The cause of AIDS is multifactorial. HIV is neither necessary nor sufficient.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Neville Hodgkinson, former Science Editor, The Times of London:
“A kind of collective insanity over HIV and AIDS has gripped leaders of the scientific and medical profession. They have stopped behaving as scientists, and instead are working as propagandists, trying desperately to keep alive a failed theory.”
Dr. Beverly Griffin, Director of the Department of Virology, Royal Postgraduate Medical School, Hammersmith Hospital London:
“It will surely lead to a scientifically healthier society if the burden of proof for HIV as a deadly pathogen is returned to where it belongs – to those who maintain that HIV causes AIDS – and others are allowed to pursue alternative approaches in the battle for eradiction of the disease.” (Nature 20 April 1989)
Dr. Etienne de Harven, Professor of Pathology, University of Toronto:
“Dominated by the media, by pressure groups and by the interests of pharmaceutical companies, the AIDS establishment lost contact with open-minded, peer-reviewed science since the unproven HIV/AIDS hypothesis received 100% of the research funds while all other hypotheses were ignored. How many wasted efforts, how many billions of research dollars gone in smoke… Horrible.”
Dr. Hiram Caton, Ethicist, Head of the School of Applied Ethics at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia:
“The orthodoxy will collapse because it flunks the practical test. The AIDS epidemic was a mirage manufactured by scientists who believed that integrity could be maintained amidst the diverting influences of big money, prestige and politics.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Phillip Johnson, Senior Professor of Law, University of California at Berkeley:
“That establishment continue to doctor statistics and misrepresent the situation to keep the public convinced that a major viral pandemic is under way when the facts are otherwise.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“One does not need to be a scientific specialist to recognise a botched research job and a scientific establishment that is distorting the facts to maximise its funding. That establishment continues to doctor statistics and misrepresent the situation to keep the public convinced that a major viral pandemic is underway when the facts are otherwise.”
Dr. Henk Loman, Professor of Biophysical Chemistry at the Free University in Amsterdam:
“There are many people with AIDS but without HIV, and a great many people with HIV but without AIDS. These two facets mean that HIV = AIDS is much to simple. Plausible, alternative, testable causes of impairment of the immune system which may ultimately lead to AIDS should become part of regular AIDS research.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Kary Mullis, Biochemist, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry:
“If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document… The HIV theory, the way it is being applied, is unfalsifiable and therefor useless as a medical hypothesis.” (Sunday Times (London) 28 nov. 1993)
Dr. Harry Rubin, Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California at Berkeley:
“It is not proven that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, nor is it proven that it plays no role whatever in the syndrome.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
“The causal role of HIV in AIDS is certainly not proven.”
Dr. Luc Montagnier, Virologist, discoverer of HIV, Institute Pasteur Paris:
“There are too many shortcomings in the theory that HIV causes all signs of AIDS. We are seeing people HIV-infected for 9, 10, 12 years or more, and they are still in good shape, their immune system is still good. It is unlikely that these people will come down with AIDS later.” (Miami Herald 23 Dec. 1990)
Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, New York Physician:
“The marketing of HIV, through press releases and statements, as a killer virus causing AIDS without the need for any other factors, has so distorted research and treatment that it may have caused thousands of people to suffer and die.” (Sunday times (London) 17 May 1992)
Dr. Fabio Franci, Specialist in Preventive Medicine and Infectious Diseases, Trieste, Italy:
“I am not an agnostic; I am well convinced HIV is harmless.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Bernard Forscher, former Managing Editor of the Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences:
“The HIV hypothesis ranks with the ‘bad air’ theory for malaria and the ‘bacterial infection’ theory of beriberi and pellagra [caused by nutritional deficiencies]. It is a hoax that became a scam.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Paul Rabinow, Professor of Anthropology, University of California at Berkeley:
“In particular I have pursued the situation of haemophiliacs and HIV because it was the arena least charged with moralism. Systematic attempts to be allowed to look at the data or to find rigorous controlled studies have failed.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Paul Lineback, Counselling Psychologist, Eastern Oregon State College:
“Protecting and promoting the unproven HIV hypothesis as fact is inducing unnecessary stress, probable emotional harm, and maybe even psychological murder.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)
Dr. Arthur Gottlieb, Chairperson of the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at the Tulane University School of Medicine:
“The viewpoint has been so firm that HIV is the only cause and will result in disease in every patient, that anyone who challenges that is regarded as ‘politically incorrect.’ I don’t think – as a matter of public policy – we gain by that, because it limits debate and discussion and focuses drug development on attacking the virus rather than attempting to correct the disorder of the immune system, which is central to the disease.” (Penthouse April 1994)
Dr. Casper Schmidt, M.D. New York Psychiatrist:
“There is no way that AIDS can be an infectious disease. Something else must be going on. The more likely interpretation is that HIV and immune dysfunction – rather than HIV being a cause and immune dysfunction being a consequence – are both consequences of something else.” (Penthouse April 1994)
Dr. Gordon Stewart, Emeritus Professor of Epidemiology University of Glasgow:
“Nobody wants to look at the facts about this disease. It’s the most extraordinary thing I’ve ever seen. I’ve sent countless letters to medical journals pointing out the epidemiological discrepancies and they simply ignore them. The fact is, this whole heterosexual AIDS thing is a hoax.” (Spin June 1992)
“AIDS is a behavioural disease. It is multifactorial, brought on by several simultaneous strains on the immune system – drugs, pharmaceutical and recreational, sexually transmitted diseases, multiple viral infections.” (Spin June 1992)
“The hypothesis that HIV is the sole cause of AIDS simply does not fit the clinical and epidemiological facts”
Dr. Harvey Bialy, Editor of the science journal Bio/Technology:
“HIV is an ordinary retrovirus. There is nothing about this virus that is unique. Everything that is discovered about HIV has an analogue in other retroviruses that don’t cause AIDS. HIV only contains a very small piece of genetic information. There’s no way it can do all these elaborate things they say it does.” (Spin June 1992)
“From both my literature review and my personal experience over most of the AIDS – so called AIDS centres in Africa, I can find absolutely no believable persuasive evidence that Africa is in the midst of a new epidemic of infectious immunodeficiency.” (Meditel 1992)
Dr. Peter Duesberg, Professor of Molecular Biology University of Berkely:
“There are no slow retroviruses, only slow retrovirologists.” (Spin June 1992)
“They have hyped up HIV into this super-rapist but in reality the damn thing can hardly get an erection.” (Times of London 11 May 1992)
“Epidemiology is like a bikini: what is revealed is interesting; what is concealed is crucial.” (PNAS Feb. 1991)
“When AIDS patients’ bodies finally break down from the effects of these anti-viral drugs, they say, ‘Now the virus has become resistant, and the drugs have lost their effectiveness.’ What really is happening is the toxicity of the drugs builds up to a point where the patient cannot stand it anymore. And, of course, they say it was the virus — rather than the entirely inevitable and predictable toxicity of these damned drugs.”
Dr. Roberto Giraldo, Specialist in Internal Medicine, Infectious and Tropical Diseases, New York
“HIV tests are meaningless. A person can react positive even though he or she is not infected with HIV. The tests are interpreted differently in different countries, which means that a person who is positive in Africa (or Thailand) can be negative when tested in Australia. There is no justification for the fact that most people have not been informed about the serious inaccuracy of the tests. The error has catastrophic repercussions on thousands of people. Since people are reacting positive on tests that are not specific for HIV, let’s please stop labeling them as ‘HIV positive’”
Nick Siano, author of No Time to Wait:
“The things that we’re feeding people emotionally about this disease are much more deadly than HIV itself. The emotional content of HIV infection is 75 percent of the battle.” (Penthouse Dec. 1995)
Dr. James Hudson, Professor of Pathology and Medicine, University of British Columbia
“I stopped going to AIDS meetings several years ago — I could no longer stand the stress of restraining myself from getting up and shouting, ‘Rubbish!”
Dr. Frank Buianouckas: Professor of Mathmatics, Bronx New York.
“I am suspect about everything involved in this AIDS epidemic, because if HIV causes anything, it certainly causes fund-raisers. It sells stocks. It supports dances. It sells condoms. And it keeps the AIDS establishment going.” (Penthouse Dec. 1995)
Dr. Michael Lange: Head of AIDS Programme St. Lukes Hospital, New York:
“What I would strongly support is a more open discussion. We do not know the pathogenesis of this disease. And we were very early forced into a very dogmatic view: namely that somehow HIV kills the T-cells.” (Spin April 1991)
Dr. Sam Mhlongo: Head of the Department of Family Medicine and Primary Health Care at the Medical University of South Africa:
“The case for a link between HIV and AIDS is not proven. I would like the “orthodox” scientists to acknowledge that in Africa there are 29 or 30 diseases which may mimic AIDS, which are related to poverty. But they will not accept that because poverty does not make them big money but HIV makes them money. If we dissidents had only one hundredth of the funds that the orthodox view has, the orthodox view would probably be dead in less than a year.”
Dr. Donald Abrams: Prof. of Medicine, San Francisco General Hospital:
“I have a large population of (HIV + patients) who have chosen not to take any anti-viral drugs. They’ve watched all of their friends go on the anti-viral bandwagon and die.”
Dr. Manu Kothari: Professor of Anatomy, Seth G.S. Medical College, Mumbai India:
“For all we know, it is not HIV that causes AIDS, but the so-called co-factors such as indiscriminate antibiotic use, recreational drugs, poverty, malnutrition, polluted water and pesticised food. AZT and the like (so-called triple therapy) are rank cytotoxic poisons. To give AZT to pregnant women is a crime against the mother and the baby she is making.”
Dr. Ralph Moss: Author of The Cancer Industry:
“The paradigm that was laid down for how to milk the cancer problem is basically the same paradigm which is being followed in milking the AIDS problem.” (Penthouse Dec. 1995)
Michael Callen: AIDS Activist, died in 1994, 13 years after AIDS diagnosis.
“The HIV paradigm has produced nothing of value for my life and I actually believe that treatments based on the arrogant belief that HIV has proven to be the sole and sufficient cause of AIDS has hastened the deaths of many of my friends” (Meditel 1992)
Dr. Stefan Lanka: Virologist, Germany.
“No particle of HIV has ever been obtained pure, free of contaminants; nor has a complete piece of HIV RNA (or the transcribed DNA) ever been proved to exist.” (Continuum Sept./Oct. 1996)
Anthony Liversidge: Science journalist, New York
“The editors of the Proceedings [of the U.S. National Academy of Science] enlisted a phalanx of special reviewers – 26 at last count – to criticize his [Duesberg’s] three submissions. None could identify a single uncorrectable flaw in fact or logic, as the editors acknowledged, only a difference of opinion.” (Omni June 1993)
Dr. Serge Lang, Professor of Mathematics, Yale University:
“I do not regard the causal relationship between HIV and any disease as settled. I have seen considerable evidence that highly improper statistics concerning HIV and AIDS have been passed off as science, and that top members of the scientific establishment have carelessly, if not irresponsible, joined the media in spreading misinformation about the nature of AIDS.” (Yale Scientific, Fall 1994)
Dr. Dave Rasnick, Biochemist, visiting scientist University of California at Berkeley.
“In defending the purchased consensus, HIV researchers use statistical methodologies shown by their inventors to be invalid and conduct experiments without any controls. They take causes for effects, correlations for causations, and constants for variables. Most important, they haven’t stopped AIDS. What they have done successfully is instilled fear into human sexual relations — an amorphous fear, which most AIDS professionals as well as journalists argue has been valuable.” (Talk Napoli, Italy, April 2001)

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] COCAINE SPEEDS HIV’S SPREAD IN CELLS
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:20:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/reutcoke.htm

COCAINE SPEEDS HIV’S SPREAD IN CELLS
By E. J. Mundell
Reuters 14 Feb. 2002
New York — Experts have long known that cocaine abuse encourages risky behaviors linked to infection with HIV. Now, research in mice suggests the drug may also speed the cell-to-cell spread of the virus by up to 200-times.
“This is important, because cocaine use–specifically crack cocaine–is a significant public health problem, and it’s particularly significant in populations at risk for contracting HIV,” said researcher Dr. Gayle Baldwin, of the University of California, Los Angeles. Her team published their findings in the March issue of the Journal of Infectious Diseases.
Previous population-based studies have suggested that HIV-related disease progresses faster in drug abusers than in non-users. However, ethical and practical concerns have meant that its nearly impossible to carry out studies that would measure the effects of cocaine on HIV spread at the cellular level.
In their research, Baldwin’s team developed a mouse model of human HIV infection. They first transplanted human cells into mice, then infected those cells with HIV. Next, they fed some of the mice cocaine in liquid form, at dosages roughly comparable to those used by human addicts. The rest of the mice received no cocaine.
“What we found was that cocaine use dramatically accelerated the spread of HIV infection,” Baldwin told Reuters Health. In fact, the blood cells of mice fed cocaine had nearly 200 times the level of virus of those who did not receive the drug.
Furthermore, cocaine-fed rodents experienced significant injury to their immune systems, as well. “There was a dramatic decrease in the number of CD4+ T cells–these are one of the primary cellular immune defenders, and the target cell of choice for HIV,” Baldwin said. According to the researchers, the number of CD4+ cells fell 9 times faster in rats fed cocaine versus those that were not.
The exact mechanisms behind cocaine’s impact on HIV and immune health remains unclear. “There certainly are some targets we can look at,” Baldwin said. “Cocaine doesn’t work by itself…it has a number of byproducts, and these byproducts can act on HIV. These can include things as straightforward as cellular mediators such as cytokines, compounds which have been already shown to have an effect on HIV replication.” Cocaine and its byproducts might also help HIV break into cells.
Regardless of the way in which it wreaks havoc with HIV, the message to HIV-positive individuals–or anyone else–seems clear: stay away from cocaine.
“Even if cocaine had no effect on HIV replication, the consequences of use in immune-compromised population is very straightforward,” Baldwin noted. But evidence that cocaine could actually speed the spread of HIV within cells may now mean that “the caution against this sort of recreational drug use has now been increased 200-fold,” she said.
Source: The Journal of Infectious Diseases, 2002:185:701-705.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] COCAINE AND INTENSITY OF H.I.V. ARE RELATED IN A STUDY OF MICE
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:19:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/news/nytcoke.htm

COCAINE AND INTENSITY OF H.I.V. ARE RELATED IN A STUDY OF MICE
By Denise Grady
New York Times 15 Feb. 2002
Research in mice may help explain something that doctors have noticed in people who are infected with H.I.V.: cocaine use seems to make the disease progress faster and lead to more of the opportunistic infections that are the hallmark of AIDS.
The reason is not known. Drug abusers often eat poorly, have unprotected sex and neglect their health in other ways, so it has been impossible to tell whether their problems are due to cocaine itself or to the other habits that often go with addiction.
A new study suggests that cocaine is to blame. In the study, by researchers at the AIDS Institute at the University of California at Los Angeles, specially bred mice were inoculated with human cells and with H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS, and then given injections of either cocaine or a salt-water placebo. Cocaine greatly enhanced replication of the virus and increased the number of human cells it infected and killed.
Dr. Gayle C. Baldwin, who directed the study, said, “We’re talking about a 200-fold increase in viral load in these animals. That is a lot.”
In addition, Dr. Baldwin said, the mice given cocaine had only one- ninth as many CD4 cells as the mice given salt water. CD4 cells, also called helper T cells, help to activate other cells of the immune system. They are the prime targets of the AIDS virus, and when they are wiped out, the ability to fight off infections is lost.
The virus also infects other cells, and, Dr. Baldwin said, “We’re seeing that the population of cells that are not killed off are churning out incredible amounts of virus.”
Why that occurs is not known, she said, adding, “We’re working on that right now.”
Dr. Baldwin said that cocaine had powerful effects on both the nervous system and the immune system, and that it caused the body to produce steroid hormones and other substances that might affect H.I.V. and its ability to invade cells.
A report on the study will be published in the March issue of The Journal of Infectious Diseases and is being posted today on the Internet at www.journals.uchicago.edu/JID/journal.
Dr. Warner C. Greene, director of the Gladstone Institute of Virology and Immunology at the University of California at San Francisco, who was not involved in the study, said doctors had wondered why cocaine users had a worse course with H.I.V.
“The beauty of this study,” Dr. Greene said, “is that it really focuses in and reveals some specific effect of cocaine. One clearly sees that cocaine is doing something to the infection process.”
Dr. Greene also said he thought the study would enhance both doctors’ and patients’ awareness of cocaine’s potential to accelerate the course of H.I.V. infection.
“I think it has very significant implications for people infected with H.I.V.,” he said.
Dr. Baldwin said that even though the study was done in mice, she thought the findings would apply to people.
“There’s always controversy with animal models,” she said. “But among people who do H.I.V. research, this is an accepted model. You can’t address these questions in a human population. It would be unethical. This model offers us something nothing else really can.”
Dr. Greene said, “It’s a model, but, boy, the effects they saw were significant.”
The mice in the study were inoculated with human cells because mouse cells do not become infected with H.I.V. The mice in the study lacked immune systems, and so would not reject human cells. The mice could then be injected with H.I.V.
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Cause of AIDS Disputed
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:12:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: “new patriots” <new_patriots@yahoogroups.com>, <Mr_Tracys_Corner@yahoogroups.com>, “cia drugs” <cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com>, “a political debate” <a_political_debate_@yahoogroups.com>, “global humanity” <globalhumanity@yahoogroups.com>, <RM-COUNSEL@yahoogroups.com>, <Evolving_Thought@yahoogroups.com>, <aidscured@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AIDS “dissident” David Rasnick of the University of California at Berkeley has agreed to inject himself with HIV if South African Professor Philip Machanick takes a three-drug cocktail of anti-HIV medicine for the rest of his life…

“The experiment is simple,” Rasnick says. “We will see who comes down with AIDS-defining and other diseases and who lives longer. In other words, which is more harmful: HIV or the anti-HIV drugs?”

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/03/24/MN44200.DTL

Cause of AIDS Disputed
Bizarre duel over AIDS
UC ‘dissident’ would get HIV if South African takes HIV drugs

In a morbid twist on South Africa’s debate over the AIDS crisis, a controversial Bay Area academic and a South African computer scientist have challenged each other to a duel to the death — using chemicals and the deadly AIDS virus as the choice of weapons.
AIDS “dissident” David Rasnick of the University of California at Berkeley has agreed to inject himself with HIV if South African Professor Philip Machanick takes a three-drug cocktail of anti-HIV medicine for the rest of his life.
Dismissed by many as a stunt that will never take place, the duel nevertheless highlights the disruptive nature of the conflict between mainstream AIDS science and the influential dissident view in South Africa, a country that faces an AIDS-related health catastrophe.
“The experiment is simple,” Rasnick says. “We will see who comes down with AIDS-defining and other diseases and who lives longer. In other words, which is more harmful: HIV or the anti-HIV drugs?”
Rasnick, a visiting scientist in UC Berkeley’s molecular and cell biology department, and others dispute the accepted belief that AIDS is contagious, sexually transmitted and caused by HIV. They say the high mortality rate ascribed to HIV is the result of lifestyle factors in the West such as drug abuse and, in Africa, because of poor nutrition and disease caused by poverty.
The dissidents also blame anti-retroviral drugs — which they say are highly toxic — for many of the opportunistic ailments that afflict AIDS sufferers.
Machanick, a professor of computer science at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, issued the bizarre challenge because of the high-profile position that Rasnick and other dissidents enjoy in government circles in South Africa, a country where one in 10 people is infected with the virus.

THABO MBEKI
So far, South African President Thabo Mbeki has sympathized with the dissidents’ views — to the outrage of the South African medical community, AIDS activists and people like Machanick. Mbeki has also balked at issuing anti-retroviral drugs in state hospitals, even though drug companies have offered these products at cost or even for free. Last week, the ruling African National Congress even issued a document to its members that questions the existence of AIDS.
“I e-mailed (Rasnick) last year suggesting that if he was so sure about his views, he should take the virus,” said Machanick. “We corresponded for a while and both decided the other was not a complete flake. He said he would inject himself with the virus if I would take anti-retrovirals.”
Dr. Costa Gazi, the health spokesman for the Pan Africanist Congress party, which has criticized the Mbeki government’s stand on AIDS, was dismissive of the dissidents — and the duel.
“This is a small coterie of people on the fringes of world science,” Gazi said. “The rest of the scientific community has already reviewed the facts and does not need to prove its case over again, especially while people are dying in large numbers.”
But while many have scoffed at the two duelists — saying they can afford a display of bravado knowing they will never have to actually carry it out — Rasnick insists the challenge is real.

TELEVISION EVENT
He wants the duel to take place live on television and is trying to raise funds to pay for the drugs and the cost of monitoring the event.
“There are no ethical questions about doing this, since both Machanick and I have agreed to participate in this experiment, just as thousands of other people continue to voluntarily participate in experiments around the world,” Rasnick said. “To the best of my knowledge, there is no law against becoming HIV-positive.”
At one point, Rasnick challenged Gazi to a similar duel. But Gazi, who was imprisoned and forced into exile by the former white-controlled apartheid government, declined.
“When Rasnick made the challenge, I said, ‘What a load of crap.’ It won’t prove anything,” said Gazi.
In a less dramatic echo of the Rasnick-Machanick duel, Mbeki has set up an advisory panel charged with establishing the causes of the disease. The panel pits dissidents like Rasnick against medical experts who hold the conventional view that HIV causes AIDS.
While Mbeki has in effect given dissidents like Rasnick encouragement, it is unclear how seriously Mbeki takes their views or whether, as some critics claim, he is exploiting them in order to save the country from a huge bill in treating his country’s AIDS epidemic.
But with Mbeki facing challenges from within his party on the issue and growing criticism from abroad, pressure is mounting for him to publicly end the AIDS controversy, even if he privately hangs on to his unorthodox views.

DISSIDENTS DEFIANT
As the debate rages in South Africa, the mood among the AIDS dissidents is upbeat and defiant.
“South Africans have learned from the catastrophe of apartheid — and colonialism in general — that they cannot blindly accept the white man’s word on anything. They have learned they must find things out for themselves and come up with their own solutions,” Rasnick said.
“It is ironic, really,” responded Machanick. “Our government says it cannot be bound by foreign experiences, yet it chooses to listen to a small group in California and Australia on this issue and ignores the pleas here at home of the South African medical community.”

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:05:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world. Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests.  It doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I was
using (whatever it was at the time).  Not many people talk about this. Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life –  the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take something
–  that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process. Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AIDS DRUGS KILL
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:06:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rrugandastudy.htm

NEW STUDY SHOWS AIDS DRUGS EQUALLY EFFECTIVE AS POVERTY AND MALNUTRITION
By Rodney Richards
April 2002
Median time from seroconversion to AIDS and death in poor, starving rural Africans (without access to health care, purified water or electricity) living in the Masaka District of Uganda (where malaria, dysentery and measles are endemic) is no different than that observed in Europeans, North Americans, or Australians who have full access to proper nutrition, health-care, “life-prolonging” anti-retrovirals, and prophylaxis against opportunistic infections.
If antiretroviral drugs are responsible for dramatic improvements in survival among HIV positives taking the treatments, we should expect to see dramatically reduced survival among HIV positives with no access to the wonder drugs. Surprisingly, this is not the case. In the March 8, 2002 issue of the medical journal AIDS, scientist from the Medical Research Council and the Uganda Virus Research Institute in Uganda (MRC/UVRI) report that untreated ‘HIV infected’ Ugandans are surviving “considerably longer than has been expected.”(1)
In fact, this is an understatement. The untreated Ugandans in the above study are actually surviving just as long as their medicated HIV positive counterparts in the developed world, according to data published in the April 1, 2000 issue of The Lancet.(2) This latter study was conducted by the Collaborative Group on AIDS Incubation and HIV Survival Group (Collaborative Group) which analyzed data from 13,030 individuals with known dates of seroconversion from Europe, North America, and Australia to estimate time from seroconversion to AIDS and death.
Specifically, “median time from seroconversion to death was 9.8 years”(1) in the Ugandan study, as compared to 10.1 years for aged matched individuals in the Collaborative Group study; and median time from seroconversion to AIDS was 9.4 and 9.3 years for the two studies, respectively (see note 1).
Even more miraculously, for individuals infected at ages15-24 in these studies, 10-year survival was substantially better in antiretroviral-free Ugandans than it was in their medicated counterparts living in Europe, North America, and Australia (78% vs 66%, see note 2).
Could it be that these particular rural Ugandans are living in abundance with good nutrition and the necessary resources to provide for an environment conducive to fending off the opportunistic infections waiting to take advantage of their failing immune systems?
The authors give us the answer in a separate report, which was published two months earlier in the British Medical Journal (BMJ). “Most of the population” in their study area “lives in poverty; food is often in limited supply, there is no electricity, and there is poor access to any, let alone clean, water. Malaria is endemic, and infections other than HIV, especially bacterial infections, are common.”(3)
Interestingly, the BMJ publication doesn’t even talk about time to AIDS or death. Rather it focuses on symptoms in these ‘HIV infected’ individuals and paradoxically concludes that “disease progression associated with infection with HIV-1 seems to be rapid in rural Uganda.” Only in the world of HIV/AIDS can “rapid” disease progression be correlated with “considerably longer” survival. The apparently schizophrenic conclusions in these two publications, which are derived from the same patient population, are discussed further in note 3.
Rather than comment on the contradictory nature of observable facts, the authors of the Ugandan study attempt to divert attention from the extraordinary survival rates observed in their subjects by emphasizing these rates are “comparable to survival times in industrialized countries prior to the widespread use of antiretroviral therapy.” Technically true, but only because survival times have not changed since the widespread use of antiretroviral therapy in industrialized countries!
The Collaborative Group study analyzed data for 13,030 individuals who seroconverted in the pre-HIV-era (before 1983), the prophylaxis-era (1983-1987), the AZT-era (1987-1990), the monotherapy-era (1990-1993), and the combination therapy-era (1993-1996). Contrary to all expectations, the authors inform us that they “found no evidence of a difference in survival or time to the diagnosis of AIDS for individuals who seroconverted in 1983-96.”(2)
No difference in survival time or progression to an AIDS diagnosis for people who became HIV positive from 1983-1996, despite all the dramatic improvements in therapies during these years? How can this be?
Prior to AZT treatment, we were told that prophylaxis against PCP (pneumocystis carinii pneumonia) and MAC (mycobacterium avium complex) dramatically slows progression to AIDS and death, after the release of AZT in 1987 we were told AZT dramatically slows progression to AIDS and death further still. Then in 1993, we were told combination therapy dramatically slows progression to AIDS and death even further!
In fact, and in stark contrast to all that we¹ve been told about the drug therapies, the only group in the Collaborative Group study that actually did enjoy significantly better survival were those individuals who seroconverted to HIV positive before 1983, before there were any AIDS treatments or prophylaxis in use!
So is it fair to say that AIDS prophylaxis, AZT, and combinations of AIDS drugs did nothing for those receiving treatment? Technically, it is not fair to say prophylaxis, mono-therapy, and combination therapy did nothing, since those who seroconverted in years when these drugs were immediately available actually did significantly worse! The authors offer a nonsensical rationalization to account for this glaring anomaly: “The apparently better survival for individuals seroconverting before 1983 may be an artefact, because these individuals seroconverted before the discovery of HIV-1 as the causative agent for AIDS.”
Rather than focusing on 13,030 examples demonstrating a complete lack of benefit to any of the anti-retrovirals used alone or in combination up to 1996, the authors instead present this data as a summary of survival “before the widespread use of HAART,” apparently putting forth the implication that with HAART, survival rates are most certainly improved. Yet the authors offer no data of their own or even a reference to a single publication showing us how patients who seroconverted in the HAART-era are actually doing with regard to survival rates.
Today, nearly two years after the Lancet article on the Collaborative Group study, the PubMed data base still does not list any published comments on the results of the Collaborative Group study, and I am still unaware of any publication that reports data for survival or time to AIDS in persons with known dates of seroconversion after 1996, in the era of ostensibly better HAART therapy.
Even if such data were to become available, and even if the data were favorable to HAART, the fact remains that the 513,486 AIDS patients reported to the CDC(4) prior to 1996 needlessly consumed billions of dollars worth of useless antiretrovirals that seriously compromised the quality, and perhaps even the quantity, of their lives.
Do these half-million individuals, their families and loved ones deserve to know that the promised benefits of these drugs aggressively promoted by the pharmaceutical industry, our public health institutions, and uncritical journalists, were nothing more than illusions? That the only thing real that resulted from their dedicated compliance to consuming these chemicals were compromised quality of life and debilitating side-effects? Or do we continue to divert attention from their senseless pain and suffering by shining the light of hope on the new unproven toxic drugs of the HAART-era?
While the results of the Collaborative Group study tell us why untreated HIV positive Ugandans are surviving just as long as their treated counterparts in the developed world (the drugs are demonstrably worthless, at best), they don¹t reveal why HIV positive Americans and Europeans who have full access to food, water and health care do not fare better than their impoverished Ugandan counterparts. Is there anything that can explain the remaining part of this paradox?
The Ugandans enrolled in the above studies did have access to regular check-ups, diagnostic testing, and free medication for routine health-care, which might have contributed to survival. However, when the researchers studied matched HIV positives outside of the study cohort who did not have access to these amenities, survival times were no different. The authors characterize this fact as a “disappointing” finding for which “we do not have a good explanation.”(1) It would seem from this that access to health-care and medicine is of little use to malnourished people with no access to food or clean water.
Could it be then that the HIV positive Ugandans in these studies are not surviving surprisingly long, but rather, that the HIV positive subjects in developed countries on antiretrovirals are actually dying surprisingly fast? Perhaps the anti-retrovirals are not worthless but are actually as harmful as poverty and malnutrition.
To check this hypothesis, I propose a study that would give some of the Ugandans in the above studies access to food and clean water and then assess their survival rates. If such a study were under taken, I predict we would see the median survival among untreated HIV positive Ugandans significantly surpass that of their medicated counterparts in the developed world. Can such a study be conducted? It¹s not unethical to give Africans food, is it?
These observations are consistent with the hypothesis that anti-retrovirals are killing people as effectively as poverty and malnutrition.
Dr. Rodney Richards, PhD, worked for Amgen Laboratories on the ELIZA HIV antibody test.
Footnotes
1. Progression to AIDS and death in the Collaborative Group study was significantly correlated with age at seroconversion. Therefore, the authors report disease progression according to age groups. Median time to AIDS ranged from 11.0 to 5.0 years for those aged 15-24 to 65+, respectively; and median time and death ranged from 12.5 to 4.0 years for those aged 15-24 to 65+, respectively. Based on the age distribution of subjects in the Ugandan study (1), age matched median time to AIDS and death is calculated to be 9.3 and 10.1 years, respectively, in the Collaborative Group study.
2. This data is approximated from the graphs in the respective publications.. See Fig. 2 in the Ugandan study, and Fig, 1 in the Collaborative Group study.
3. The Ugandan studies use the WHO Staging system to define disease progression. (WHO. Wkly Epidemiol Rec 1990; 65:221-8.) Unlike the Bangui definition of AIDS (WHO. Wkly Epid Rec 1986; 61:72-73.), which is based on clinical symptoms without an antibody test, the WHO staging system requires a positive anti-HIV test. It then attempts to gage disease progression according to four Stages. Stage 1: asymptomatic; Stage 2: mild symptoms, including weight loss of as little as 5%; Stage 3: weight loss greater than 10%, or treatable opportunistic infections; and Stage 4, which is synonymous with AIDS. Stage 4 includes many, but not all of the illnesses used by the CDC to define AIDS.
The staging system is progressive, hence when a person progresses to a higher stage, they cannot go back even if the condition is resolved. So when the authors report, “only 17% of participants remained symptom-free five years after seroconversion,” this is not striking. In fact, the vast majority of participants may actually be symptom-free as we speak. A single bout of sinusitis, dermatitis, or bacterial infection, or even a 5% weight loss (in a month), over this 5 year period leaves the subject classified as symptomatic, regardless if they recover or not.
The fact that disease progression to Stages 2 and 3 is remarkably rapid, while disease progression to Stage 4 (AIDS), or death, is remarkable slow, leaves one wondering, “of what value is this Staging system?”
References
1. Morgan D et al. HIV-1 infection in rural Africa: Is there a difference in median time to AIDS and survival compared with that in industrialized countries? AIDS. 2002; 16:597-603.
2. Collaborative Group on AIDS incubation and HIV Survival including the CASCADE EU Concerted Action. Time from HIV-1 seroconversion to AIDS and death before widespread use of highly-active antiretroviral therapy: collaborative re-analysis. Lancet 2000; 355:1131-37.
3. Morgan D et al. Progression to symptomatic disease in people infected with HIV-1 in rural Uganda: prospective cohort study. BMJ. 2002 Jan 26; 324:193-6.
4. CDC. Year end HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report 1995; Vol 7:No. 2.

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:05:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/award.htm

MISSING VIRUS!
£ 1000 Reward

Blind romantics still believe HIV causes AIDS.
But if ‘HIV’ has never been isolated, what is
AIDS?

Never isolated? You bet! A cash prize of £ 1000
is offered to the first person finding one scien-
tific paper establishing actual isolation of HIV.

If you or a friendly ‘AIDS expert’ can prove
isolation, £ 1000 is yours. In cash. In public.

Interested? Pledge the money to your favourite
AIDS charity, why not?

We bet you’ll be surprised to discover the truth.

c o n t i n u u m
CHANGING THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT AIDS

The Rules of Isolation

The rules for isolation of a retrovirus were thoroughly discussed at the
Pasteur Institute, Paris, in 1973, and are the logical minimum requirements
for establishing the independent existence of HIV. They are:

1.Culture of putatively infected tissue.

2. Purification of specimens by density gradient ultracentrifugation.

3. Electron micrographs of particles exhibiting the morfological
characteristics and dimensions (100-120 nm) of retroviral particles at the
sucrose (or percoll) density of 1.16 gm/ml and containing nothing else, not
even particles of other morphologies or dimensions.

4. Proof that the particles contain reverse transcriptase.

5. Analysis of the particles’ proteins and RNA and proof that these are
unique.

6. Proof that 1-5 are a property only of putatively infected tissues and
can not be induced in control cultures. These are identical cultures, that
is, tissues obtained from matched, unhealthy subjects and cultured under
identical conditions differing only in that they are not putatively infected
with a retrovirus.

7. Proof that the particles are infectious, that is when PURE particles
are introduced into an uninfected culture or animal, the identical particle
is obtained as shown by repeating steps 1-5.

—————————————————————————-
—-

First Respons to Continuum Award (May ’96)

Edward King, editor of UK’s National AIDS Manual and writer for the Pink
Paper, published the first respons in NAM’s Treatment Update. The Perth
Group wrote a reply.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Duesberg Claims Continuum Reward (July/Aug. ’96)

Prof. Peter Duesberg believes HIV exists and has been isolated and
claims the Continuum Award. The Perth Group wrote a long reply, and a
summary. Neville Hodgkinson wrote also a summary. And Dr. Stefan Lanka wrote
a comment too.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Debate Continues (Feb./March ’97)

Prof. Peter Duesberg responded to the reply from the Australians and Dr.
Stefan Lanka. The Perth Group replied again, and Dr. Stefan Lanka responded
again too.

—————————————————————————-
—-

First Pictures of “Pure HIV” (March ’97)

Two historic papers in the leading science journal Virology in March
this year provide astonishing new data on the purification and isolation of
HIV. For the first time in the history of AIDS, elusive electron microscope
images of ‘HIV’ collected or ‘banded’ at the official density required for
retroviruses, 1.16 gm/ml, have been published, by a research group in
Germany. The electronmicrographs disclose “major contaminants” in “pure
HIV”.

HIV expert Hans Gelderblom of Berlin’s Robert Koch Institute, whose
photos of non-banded ‘HIV’ material have been the industrial benchmark since
1987, co-authored the first paper which describes the contamination as “an
excess of vesicles” – particles of cellular proteins, that may contain DNA
or RNA. In a consecutive paper, a US research team from the AIDS Vaccine
Programme in Maryland reveal carefully, “It is unknown how these cellular
proteins associate with the virus” and warn, “The presence of microvesicles
in purified retroviruses has practical implications”: both teams discuss the
resulting nonspecifity of HIV tests, all of which are based on early
unchecked “purified HIV”.

In an historic admission that it has never been established which
proteins constitute ‘HIV’, the US scientists conclude, “The development of
various purification strategies to separate microvesicles from HIV-particles
… will greatly enhance our ability to identify virion-associated cellular
proteins.” The imaging step in attempts at retroviral isolation was deemed
essential when isolation procedure was discussed and decided at the Pasteur
Institute, Paris in 1972, but it has never been published before in the
13-year history of ‘HIV’. (Continuum autumn 1997)

See some more pictures, and a comment by the Perth Group.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Interview Prof. Montagnier (July ’97)

The French journalist Djamel Tahi interviewed Dr. Luc Montagnier, the
discoverer of HIV, about the isolation of the virus. Although he believes he
isolated HIV, Montagnier confirms he could not purify the virus. The Perth
Group wrote a comment. (Continuum winter 1997)

—————————————————————————-
—-

More Money to Earn (Aug. ’98)

In addition to the Continuum Award organizations all around the world
offer more money for the evidence of the existence of HIV. One can already
collect over $ 25.000 by providing this evidence. See the additional terms.
(page in Spanish!)

—————————————————————————-
—-

Professor Questions Isolation (Oct. ’98)

Dr. Etienne de Harven is emeritus Professor of Pathology, University of
Toronto. He worked in electron microscopy (EM) primarily on the
ultrastructure of retroviruses throughout his professional career of 25
years at the Sloan Kettering Institute in New York and 13 years at the
University of Toronto. In 1956 he was the first to report on the EM of the
Friend virus in murine (mouse) leukemia, and in 1960, to coin the word
“budding” to describe steps of virus assembly on cell surfaces. He delivered
a speech at the 12th World AIDS Conference in Geneva at the session
“HIV-testing: Open Questions about Specificity”. He sent a letter and photo
to Continuum, he wrote an article for the same magazine, and an article for
Reappraising AIDS.

—————————————————————————-
—-

The Last Debate (Dec. ’99)

“Debate has been taking place amongst the HIV/AIDS dissident groups
regarding the wisdom of taking up the issue of HIV isolation as an argument
in our fight against mainstream AIDS science.” An article by the Perth
Group.

—————————————————————————-
—-

German Professor Questions HIV (Oct. ’00)

“During the past 20 years HIV-AIDS research has shown to a line of
critical scientists again and again that the existence of HIV has not been
proven without doubt, and that both from a aetiological (causal), and a
epidemiological view, it can not be responsible for the immunodeficiency
AIDS. In view of the general accepted HIV/AIDS hypothesis this appeared to
me so unbelievable that I decided to investigate it myself. After three
years of intensive and, above all, critical studies of the relevant original
literature, as an experienced virologist and molecular biologist I came to
the following surprising conclusion: Up to today there is actually no single
scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even
once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of
classical virology.”

Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and
Virology and a former director of the Department of Viroid Research at the
Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy near München, wrote a letter (in German)
to the Süddeutsche Zeitung. Prof. Sänger was in 1978 rewarded with the
prestigious Robert Koch Award. He also wrote the foreword (in German) for
the book ‘Mythos HIV’ written by the German journalist Michael Leitner.

—————————————————————————-
—-

Isolation Experiments (April ’01)

The South African government has set up a Presidential AIDS Advisory
Panel to determine their policy on HIV and AIDS. Several dissidents are on
the panel. They released an interim report and advised, because the lack of
data, to do more research. Ten experiments, including the true isolation of
HIV, have been proposed, and will be financed by the SA government. Read
more about South Africa and AIDS.

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Another Award (April ’02)

Alex Russel is offering £10,000 Reward for the first person who can
prove that HIV exists. See the details.

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:02:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,
I’m glad you are going for retreatment.  Don’t be hard on yourself – you got a taste of what it’s like to be free – you need to allow yourself to mess up and move on.  Everyone messes up, believe me – You are NOT alone.  A BIG HUG to you, Sean.
Love,
Mary

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:01:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vig, you write funny deranged messages to the vox
lists. Somehow though I have the feeling that most of
the doctors on this list would disagree with you and I
don’t think it’s a great idea for anyone to throw away
their HIV meds and start eating coconuts because some
person on a list tells them to do this.

Dr. Kary Mullis, Biochemist, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry:

“If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific
documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at
least with a high probability. There is no such document.” (Sunday Times
(London) 28 nov. 1993)

a.. Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and
Virology, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München. Robert Koch Award
1978:
“Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really
convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a
retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical
virology.” (Letter to Süddeutsche Zeitung 2000)

a.. Dr. Serge Lang, Professor of Mathematics, Yale University:
“I do not regard the causal relationship between HIV and any disease
as settled. I have seen considerable evidence that highly improper
statistics concerning HIV and AIDS have been passed off as science, and that
top members of the scientific establishment have carelessly, if not
irresponsibly, joined the media in spreading misinformation about the nature
of AIDS.” (Yale Scientific, Fall 1994)

a.. Dr. Harry Rubin, Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology, University
of California at Berkeley:
“It is not proven that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, nor is it
proven that it plays no role whatever in the syndrome.” (Sunday Times
(London) 3 April 1994)

a.. Dr. Richard Strohman, Emeritus Professor of Cell Biology at the
University of California at Berkeley:
“In the old days it was required that a scientist address the
possibilities of proving his hypothesis wrong as well as right. Now there’s
none of that in standard HIV-AIDS program with all its billions of dollars.”
(Penthouse April 1994)

a.. Dr. Harvey Bialy, Molecular Biologist, former editor of
Bio/Technology and Nature Biotechnology:
“HIV is an ordinary retrovirus. There is nothing about this virus that
is unique. Everything that is discovered about HIV has an analogue in other
retroviruses that don’t cause AIDS. HIV only contains a very small piece of
genetic information. There’s no way it can do all these elaborate things
they say it does.” (Spin June 1992)

a.. Dr. Roger Cunningham, Immunologist, Microbiologist and Director of
the Centre for Immunology at the State University of New York at Buffalo:
“Unfortunately, an AIDS ‘establishment’ seems to have formed that
intends to discourage challenges to the dogma on one side and often insists
on following discredited ideas on the other.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April
1994)

a.. Dr. Gordon Stewart, Emeritus Professor of Public Health, University
of Glasgow:
“AIDS is a behavioural disease. It is multifactorial, brought on by
several simultaneous strains on the immune system – drugs, pharmaceutical
and recreational, sexually transmitted diseases, multiple viral infections.”
(Spin June 1992)

a.. Dr. Alfred Hässig, (1921-1999), former Professor of Immunology at
the University of Bern, and former director Swiss Red Cross blood banks:
“The sentence of death accompanying the medical diagnosis of AIDS
should be abolished.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)

a.. Dr. Charles Thomas, former Professor of Biochemistry, Harvard and
John Hopkins Universities:
“The HIV-causes-AIDS dogma represents the grandest and perhaps the
most morally destructive fraud that has ever been perpetrated on young men
and women of the Western world.” (Sunday Times (London) 3 April 1994)

a.. Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, New York Physician, founder of the American
Foundation for AIDS Research (AmFAR):
“The marketing of HIV, through press releases and statements, as a
killer virus causing AIDS without the need for any other factors, has so
distorted research and treatment that it may have caused thousands of people
to suffer and die.” (Sunday times (London) 17 May 1992)

a.. Dr. Andrew Herxheimer, Emeritus Professor of Pharmacology, UK
Cochrane Centre, Oxford:
“I think zidovudine [AZT] was never really evaluated properly and that
its efficacy has never been proved, but it’s toxicity certainly is
important. And I think it has killed a lot of people. Especially at the high
doses. I personally think it not worth using alone or in combination at
all.” (Continuum Oct. 2000)

a.. Dr. Etienne de Harven, Emeritus Professor of Pathology, at the
University of Toronto:
“Dominated by the media, by special pressure groups and by the
interests of several pharmaceutical companies, the AIDS establishment
efforts to control the disease lost contact with open-minded, peer-reviewed
medical science since the unproven HIV/AIDS hypothesis received 100% of the
research funds while all other hypotheses were ignored.” (Reappraising AIDS
Nov./Dec. 1998)

a.. Dr. Bernard Forscher, former editor of the U.S. Proceeding of the
National Academy of Sciences:
“The HIV hypothesis ranks with the ‘bad air’ theory for malaria and
the ‘bacterial infection’ theory of beriberi and pellagra [caused by
nutritional deficiencies]. It is a hoax that became a scam.” (Sunday Times
(London) 3 April 1994)

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 2:19:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vig, you write funny deranged messages to the vox
lists. Somehow though I have the feeling that most of
the doctors on this list would disagree with you and I
don’t think it’s a great idea for anyone to throw away
their HIV meds and start eating coconuts because some
person on a list tells them to do this.

I think that Sean’s problem is that he relapsed and
started smoking crack and doing heroin again. His
feelings about his mother, making sure he’s taking
broccoli and getting enough cauliflower might be
something he could improve his life with, but I don’t
get the idea they are the main problem right now 😉

Sean hang in there, if it’s 3 more weeks until you re
dose think about that and try not to beat up on
yourself, it never helps!

Carla B

— Vigilius Haufniensis
<thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

VMANN, all respect to you but please don’t advise
someone to quit taking their HIV meds! Sean can do
the wonderful things you suggest AND take his meds.I
would like to know why you feel as strongly as you
do though. Want to drop me a private e-mail?
calliemimosa@aol.com
I am always interested in new treatment ideas for
HIV/Aids.Thanks and like I said before, I respect
your statement, it just scares me for anyone to
encourage another to stop any meds prescribed by a
physician.Callie

VMANN:  HIV MEDS WILL KILL YOU.  HIV DOES NOT CAUSE
AIDS.  EAT COCONUTS.  put brocholli and cauliflower
in your raw vegetable juice.
hell, ask jules.  i aint making this shit up.
vigilius haufniensis

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HIV IS BULLSHIT
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:07:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VMANN, all respect to you but please don’t advise someone to quit taking their HIV meds! Sean can do the wonderful things you suggest AND take his meds.I would like to know why you feel as strongly as you do though. Want to drop me a private e-mail? calliemimosa@aol.com
I am always interested in new treatment ideas for HIV/Aids.Thanks and like I said before, I respect your statement, it just scares me for anyone to encourage another to stop any meds prescribed by a physician.Callie

VMANN:  HIV MEDS WILL KILL YOU.  HIV DOES NOT CAUSE AIDS.  EAT COCONUTS.  put brocholli and cauliflower in your raw vegetable juice.
hell, ask jules.  i aint making this shit up.
vigilius haufniensis

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!- Dear Hannah
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:18:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,

I told my mum
about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me
“They’re just dreams Hannah”

Reading your email both saddened and angered me.  How
dare someone try to steal your dreams from you- our
dreams are one of the ONLY things in life we can
really have possession and complete ownership of!
Personally, I think your idea/dream is wonderful, and
I think you should pursue it with all your might.

I’m only 3 years older than you, so I should hardly be
dispensing advice, but I can tell you this, with all
certainty: doing dope will not solve your problems,
but rather will aggravate and accentuate them.  I
think it might be time to give your friends the old
‘heave-ho’, for your sanity’s sake.  Does your drug
buddy know that he is a trigger for you?  Real friends
don’t want to drag their chums down, babe….He needs
to realize this.

good luck, luv
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:51:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean,

I’m gonna sing you a song: “Ooh, child, things are
gonna get easier…”

I’m glad to hear about your retreatment, but not so
happy to hear you’re not taking your meds.  Can you
feel a difference, physically?

Keep on keepin’on, things will get brighter…we’ve
all been there…

luv Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested
Date: September 27, 2004 at 1:08:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hahahahahahahaaha!!!!!
I showed this to my 14 year old step daughter, who says she HATES Algebra, and she LOVED it! She copied it off to take to her Algebra teacher!
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] VMANN was previously thread-doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:52:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

VMANN, all respect to you but please don’t advise someone to quit taking their HIV meds!
Sean can do the wonderful things you suggest AND take his meds.
I would like to know why you feel as strongly as you do though. Want to drop me a private e-mail? calliemimosa@aol.com
I am always interested in new treatment ideas for HIV/Aids.
Thanks and like I said before, I respect your statement, it just scares me for anyone to encourage another to stop any meds prescribed by a physician.
Callie

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:49:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fuck bro, shit. I will be blasting you some cosmic fucking vibes to help
you shake this shit. I’ve gotten some great feedback from peeps on the
list and they are tops. I wish you the best man and please be safe and
careful.  If yer on hiv meds, bro, take them man.

VMANN:  STOP taking them.  AIDS is bullshit.  thats whats keeping you down.
eat coconuts.  do raw vegetable and fruit juices.  walk at least 1/2 hour  a
day.  drink plenty of water.  balance your exercise (walking) with adequate
rest.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 10:22:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I know people did not like what I had to say about not using ibogaine as a panacea for addiction. Though it does undo the physical aspect, that has never been any of our problem. Jason is right. You have nothing to feel fucked up about. The very reason we are here is because we have a rough time ridding ourselves of “addiction”! I don’t think ibogaine brings one up and then down, it is the false implication that this is ‘the answer’. It is a miracle drug but all it can really do is enlighten you and the rest is not very different than other treatments. Sean, you are fine! If you get high, you start over. It is not a reason to give up. You may pick up again. That is not the important thing. I know you have learned more about yourself than at any other time in your life. That is what you should concentrate on. Just keep learning man and don’t count how many times you got high.

I’m going to say it again. I’m doing ibo in a couple of weeks and if it helps me get off drugs…GREAT! BUT if it doesn’t, that is fine! There is a wonderful spiritual and psychological experience I want am looking forward to and that is fine with me. I say this because Sean, Every single time I did some treatment and it didn’t work, I felt so angry, so depressed, so at the end of my life, but it’s not fair to me! I looked at treatments as a panacea and there are no panaceas. Just keep learning and start from scratch if you do get high. It really is not such a fucked up thing!

Keep going bro’,

Julian

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:18:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no
reason
to not take your HIV medications.  If Ibogaine were an approved medication
you > would most likely not be having these problems.  Too bad your doctor
can’t > hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.
Take care of yourself.> > Howard

VMANN:  amphetamine use often is an attempt to compensate for emptiness in
ones life.  have you thought about the eternal recurrence?  or the crack
eternal recurrence?  what do you have to do to make your life
experienceworthy for its own sake?  what do you have to do to make your life
experienceworthy for its own sake without crack?
tell me about your relationship with your mother.
vigilius haufniensis

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:13:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list,Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

VMANN:  have you considered turning your life over to christ?

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.
Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.Sean

VMANN:  take some coconut, dude.
there’s NO SUCH THING AS HIV.  AIDS is bullshit.
and get on raw vegetable juice, for christs sake.  sweeten it up with some apples and oranges.
vigilius haufniensis

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested
Date: September 27, 2004 at 9:00:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wonderful, Howard.  If this media report doesn’t put
things in the proper perspective, I don’t know what would!
🙂

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 12:50 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested

Subject: Teacher Arrested
Teacher Arrested
At Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport today, an individual later discovered to
be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while
in, possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and
a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John
Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra
movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math
instruction.
“Al-gebra is a fearsome cult,” Ashcroft said. “They desire average
solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a
search of absolute value. They use secret code names like ‘x’ and ‘y’
and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have determined they
belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates
in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, ‘there
are 3 sides to every triangle.’ When asked to comment on the arrest,
President Bush said, “If God had wanted us to have better weapons of
math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes.”

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 9:00:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

I’m thinking of you and sending lots of positive vibes your way.  Always remember things often look better in the morning!  I know it sounds silly but when I’m most depressed I fordce myself to go to bed and sleeo coz things always seem a bit better in the morning.  Don’t beat yourself up-we’re all in this together.  Just try dmage limitation-y’know harm reduction and all that.  If there’s anything I can do from all the way over here just let me know.

Keep posting and don’t be ashamed-we luv ya honey!

Loadsa love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:48:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Mary 🙂

After spending the past 5yrs (I know it doesn’t sound long but I’m only 23) chasing H and letting the rest of my life disappear down the drain I’m now interested in so many things-it seems like there’s so much out there, so many totally wierd and wonderful things!  I haven’t really settled into anything if you know what I mean.  I’ve been reading bits on Buddhism, meditation etc etc. I’m trying to practise visualisation.  I’m trying to get back into Yoga.  Y’know when you discover something and it just seems so right?  I’ve always been interested in Wicca and that feels really right.  I’ve gotta life coach.  Since I was a little kid I’ve loved animals especially horses and dreamed of being a horse whisperer like Monty roberts if you’ve heard of him?  Now my life coach is trying to get me funded to go on some courses and I’m going to meet a local one next week to see if I can work voluntarily to gain experience!  (I’m trying really hard not to let my excitement bubble over coz I’m still kinda expecting it to all fuck up in my usual pessimistic way!)  I’ve had a friend’s pony to look after for a couple of months and that’s been wonderful as I’ve been riding most days (I didn’t ride the whole time I was into my gear) I’m just gutted now as I have to give him back and I love him so much and I won’t see him again :-()

So why have I been dabbling again.  Today’s Day 3 again but I have a Sub script so I’m not really ill.  But I feel really angry.  I don’t even know why I’m writing all this, just that I have to speak even to no one.  I’ve got 2 friends staying in me & my boyfs tiny 1bedroom flat and i’m starting to go mad-cleaning up after 3 men.  I feel really tearful lke my insides wanna explode.  My dogs nagging me for a walk and barking at nothing. Now my landlords turned up!

When things get tuff I run back to gear like a baby. I MUST NOT…  It doesn’t help that one of my friends staying is my old partner in crime so we’ve been fucking up together.  He’s in the other room n I can’t talk to him cos I know I’m not strong enough right now to say no.  AAAAH!

I’m hopefully going to open university in Feb and I’m dreading it.  I only went to Uni I now realise coz my parents wanted me to.  I’ve always been the black sheep of our family (on my 21st BDay a family friend got my a black toy sheep as a joke) always in trouble, always the mardy one coz I’ve always been depressed (which doesnt exist to them)  They hated me, I got kicked out, my mum and I nearly tore each others hearts out!  So I wanted to do something good, make them happy for once.  And what did I do?  Get into H and get shit loads in debt and never finish Uni.  So they paid hundreds, porbably thousands in fees for me just to flunk out.  I was looking forward to completeing my degree (Its in Psychology!!!) but now I’m terrified.  The more I think about it the more I realise I haven’t got a chance and I’m just gonna fail again.  I told my mum about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me “They’re just dreams Hannah”

Why an I writing all this?  I feel like I have no identity.  I feel scared all the time…  I give up now this is just getting to self-pitying!  I must learn to think less and do more…

Sorru ecveryone I meant this to be a happy post – a ‘look how much changes when you give up the gear’ post.  But maybe nothing changes.  Nice people are giving me chances but I’m just gonna fuck up again.  I might aswell have a hit right now! NO, no that was a crap joke.  I just feel bad and worried and I have no one to talk to.  No one that understands or who will even let me finish-normally they just jump in and tell me I’m being an idiot!

Right…pulll myself together…I’m going to check a few emails, walk my dog who appears to be bursting for a wee and ride my pony and forget about all the shit I’ve gotta do like clean my flat etc.

Not sure what this rant meant, forget it and carry on! 🙂

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] current chapter 13
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:27:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Thought I’d share the following, just to try and liven up a dreary,
slightly depressing Monday morn. Hope you all are well (especially you
Sean).
Chapter 13-
Scarred but Smarter?

“Hey, ‘scuse me, you got a light?” Across the street from the Barnes and
Noble’s at Astor Place, I hold out the clipped half a cigarette in my cupped
hand. The two long-haired metal heads break off their conversation and look
at me, squinting in the rain.

“Sure man,” says the shorter of the two, flicking his lighter for me. As I
take a deep pull on the butt, the two continue staring at me, the one with
the lighter smiling in friendly fashion, the other obviously thinking hard.

“I know you dude,” the taller one says as I lower my smoke.

“Oh yeah, you two look familiar,” I answer, trying to figure out if I really
have seen these two before, not recognizing them at all.

“Hell yeah, I do know you,” he says, “You’re the guy who sold us that fake
acid!” As he says this, he throws the punch he’s been winding up behind him,
unnoticed by me. He punches me right on my nose, directly into my face,
knocking me completely off my feet and flat onto my back on the
rain-drenched sidewalk. I immediately try to gain my feet, making it to my
hands and knees, watching a torrent of blood pour from my face like a faucet
of blood, mixing with the dirty rainwater rushing by in the gutter inches
from my bleeding nose. The big guy steps up to me and kicks me in the gut a
couple of time as I try to get up, knocking the wind out of me and curling
me into a ball in the rain. I pull my hands up over my face, trying to
protect it from more damage while I attempt to draw air into my lungs. I get
kicked with the guy’s big black engineer boots a couple more times, then
laughing uproariously, they run away up the sidewalk, turning the corner and
leaving me wondering what the hell happened.

I roll back onto my hands and knees, seeing that incredibly thick stream of
blood gushing from my face, splashing as it hits the curb, and feel sick to
my stomach. I shake my head trying to find my equilibrium, trying to climb
to my feet and not doing such a great job of it. Someone from the health
food store behind me comes out to help me up.

“Would you like me to call the police?” he asks me as he hands me some paper
towels.

“No, thanks, but I’ve got to go. I don’t have time.” What would I tell the
cops? “Oh, they were mad at me for selling them fake acid.” That wouldn’t go
over so well I think, so I too walk away from the large bloodstain still
sticky on the sidewalk. It too will soon be gone, washed away like all the
other trash and detritus of the city, rinsed into the gutter and away.

This is the first time someone has really punched me out for ripping them
off. I have been threatened by irate vics on a number of occasion but have
always managed to get away with it one way or another, either by giving them
more fake drugs or turning them on to some of my real drugs or simply
ditching them after giving them some lame excuse. I take the threats and
risks in stride usually, figuring that if I’m going to sell fake drugs to
strangers on the streets day after day, I have to take responsibility for
whatever happens as a result, that I have to play the game as my turn comes.
That karma thing comes into play here as well.

A rainy murky Summer morning, I’m having no luck finding anyone interested
in buying acid or any drugs for that matter. Already sick before getting
socked in the face, now I’m miserable, feeling like total shit. The paper
towels are soaked with blood but I haven’t anything else with which to catch
the rivulets still streaming from my mangled nostril. There’s no way I’m
going to check the damage in my reflection yet, because I know I’m going to
have to go to the emergency room at some point, and once I actually see what
‘s been done to my nose I won’t be able to put it off. Therefore I ignore it
as best I can.

I stagger across 3rd Ave, heading West along St. Mark’s Place, past the
jewelry and eyeglass stalls, past a surprising number of pedestrians out in
the rain, trying all the while to hide the bloody mess my face has become.
Crossing 1st. Ave, I spot two young women sitting on a stoop, student stoner
types wearing baggy jeans and wet, dready hair, sitting in the drizzle
looking around left and right as though searching for something.

“How you guys doin’?” I stop in front of them. “You guys got a cigarette I
can bum, please?” They stare at me and my fucked up face, but one hands me a
cigarette.

“What happened to your face?” She asks, lighting my cigarette.

“Oh shit, I can’t believe it. I got mugged a half hour ago by a couple of
scumbags in Washington Square,” I tell her, making it up as I go. “They said
they wanted to buy some of my acid, but instead of paying me, one of them
punched me as the other snatched about 25 trips right out of my hand. The
fuckers.” I play this game all the time, thinking very fast on my feet when
I have to.

“That sucks man!” Both girls say in unison. “Shouldn’t you go to the
hospital?”

“Well, I gotta meet my girlfiend first,” I tell them. “Say, you two wouldn’t
be interested in any trips, would you?” They glance at one another and shake
their heads.

“No, but we’d love some weed. Got any on you?”

“I can get you some fat bags. How much do you want? I can get $30 bags and
up.” I’m willing to go and come back for them so long as they give me enough
money to cop both coke and dope. Thirty bucks will get me a bag of coke,
dope and a nice dime bag of herb for them.

“Can you get $50 worth?”

“Sure, but I want $10 for running.” I’m trying hard not to show my
incredulity that they’re going to hand me $50, bloody ragged mess of a
stranger that I am, but it’s more believable that I’m legit if I charge them
a nominal fee for copping for them than were I to offer to run cop for them
for free.
“How do we know you’re going to come back?” So they aren’t as innocent as I’
ve been thinking.
“Here,” I say, pulling out a baggy of blank orange construction paper. “You
can hold onto my trips. There’s a lot more money in this bag than what you’
re giving me, so you guys have to wait for me to come back. Please, don’t
leave with my wares.” They look at one another again, then exchange the
baggy for three $20s. “I’ll be right back, fifteen minutes tops. Please do
not take off.”

I cop $20 of pot, two bags of dope, and a $20 of coke. Then I go give the
girls their weed and take back my construction paper. Although I’ve way
overcharged them, I don’t feel bad nor guilty, as we’re all getting
something out of the deal. They’re happy with the bag, more that I came back
at all. There are plenty on these streets who wouldn’t have returned, even
me at times.

When I finally meet up with my girlfiend a few hours later, it’s almost
dusk. She freaks when she sees my nose.

“What the fuck happened to you?” She yelps, gazing in horror at my face. I
still haven’t taken a look. “Come on, you have to go to the hospital right
now!” She hails a cab, which we take to the Beth Israel emergency room.

As soon as the admitting nurse sees my nose, she hurries me into one of the
back rooms to see a surgeon as fast as possible. I’m beginning to feel the
second bag I’d bought earlier but saved until riding in the cab, where I
banged it quickly into my arm. I end up waiting another hour and a half for
the surgeon, struggling not to nod off and fall out of the chair in front of
the mothers and their crying children waiting their turns. Eventually a
nurse comes and gets me, leading me to a sterile white room.
“Lay down on this table. The doctor will be right in.” She fritters around
the room for a moment then leaves. Above me there’s a mirror, giving me a
direct look at the damage for the first time. The guy who hit me must have
been wearing a big ring, something with a lot of pointy spikes or something.
My nose is completely severed along the septum at the top of my nostril, a
gaping gash as the skin hangs away in a loose flap. I almost throw up right
there, but manage to keep it in by closing my eyes, willing myself to let go
and float in the dope. I drift in and out of consciousness as the nurse
finished scrubbing the dirt and grime that’s gotten into the wound as I
wandered the Lower East Side today. The bad part comes when the surgeon
sticks his anesthetic syringe directly into the wound a number of times
prior to sewing my nostril closed. Other than for that excruciating pain, I’
m barely aware of the procedure. The doctor leaves me on the table to rest
for a few minutes when he’s done, then come back to talk.

“Why’d you keep passing out during surgery?” He grills me. “What are you on?
What’d you take?” Not wanting detox, but rather more dope as soon as
possible, I shrug off his questions.

“Aw Doc, I’m fucking beat, in pain, and yeah, I did some dope today. I gotta
go. Thanks for putting my nose back together.” The surgeon shakes his head,
but drops the questioning.

Stopping at the toilets before leaving, I catch sight in the mirror of the
bright blue stitching the surgeon used to sew up my nose, shining from my
face like a neon sign saying to all and sundry, “Hi there, guess who got
punched in the face?” It actually looks kind of cool to be honest. I’ve
never seen blue stitching before. It’s almost stylish.

Instead of going back to get the stitching removed as scheduled, I leave the
stitches in a couple of extra week’s time as I continue my endless scamming,
scoring and shooting until finally another junky tells me I can take them
out myself, that there’s no reason why I’d have to wait all day at the
hospital for the surgeon to do it for me, which is why I’ve put it off. So I
take the small fingernail scissors I use to cut up the blank paper I sell
and snip the stitches one by one, pulling them effortlessly and painlessly
from my nostril. Healed nicely, there’s still a scar which will remind me of
this incident forever after. It doesn’t stop me from continuing as I’ve been
though. As the band Cryin’ and Drivin’ once sang, “There’s always a chance
to get restarted to a new world, new life, scarred but smarter.” I might be
scarred, but I’m not yet much smarter.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:14:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re sucking sores
Date: September 27, 2004 at 8:01:48 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but I should note that overall the article does seem to be questioning the
current tactics used to wage war on meth.
That is a plus, even if they printed such a silly story as prisoners sucking
on new inmates’ sores and wounds to get the drugs leaching from their system
in the past.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sucking sores for drugs- egad!
Date: September 27, 2004 at 7:57:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
If this paper really printed such an allegation as you will read at the
below URL and in this excerpt, prohibition and drug insanity is far more
widespread than even I thought. I mean, I’ve noted many times in many places
that for far too long the prohibitionist maniacs have had a free ride, where
much of the press reguritates prohibitionist bullmanure without question far
too often. Things are changing, but not nearly fast enough, as is evidenced
in the following article.

http://www.brainerddispatch.com/stories/092504/new_0925040002.shtml

Inmate: ‘It’s an epidemic’
By MATT ERICKSON and RENEE RICHARDSON
Staff Writers

Justin Nelson looks like a university student. He follows state politics.
And he has been a meth addict since he was about 14 years old. Now he is in
jail on charges of meth manufacturing. He said programs like DARE don’t
work. Even the prison system isn’t working.

“I’m looking at 86 months. I’m 21. Yeah, I have an addiction but do I
deserve to go to prison for seven years? No,” Nelson said. “If someone has
cancer, do you stick them in a room? No, you treat them.”

Nelson said meth is everywhere. “I can go to a gas station and spot a meth
user a mile away,” he said. “Everybody is doing it. It’s an epidemic.”

He also doesn’t know if his stay in jail and prison will scare him straight.
Like the women inmates, Nelson doesn’t believe more prison time is the
answer.

“In my heart I’d like to tell you that 86 months from now I’ve learned, but
I’ll probably be so upset for having to do 86 months I won’t be helpful even
to myself,” he said. “And if I didn’t know how to cook dope when I went in,
I’m going to know when I get out.”

Watching the men congregate in the Crow Wing County Jail and hearing them
talk about their meth use is a stark contrast to listening to the women.

Instead of six women each at a seat, more than 20 men fill the recreation
area to standing room only. And they don’t talk so much about their personal
experiences as they give their views on the meth issue at large.

They read the Dispatch’s earlier meth series with an insider’s perspective
and they disagreed with certain facts. They questioned a story of jail
inmates who were reported to have sucked on fresh sores of the newly
incarcerated inmate in hopes of getting last traces of meth as it leached
through the skin.

They found the story unbelievable themselves and scoffed at the notion. They
questioned cleanup costs associated with meth labs. They wondered why more
emphasis wasn’t put on preventing meth use.

Those who did speak about meth did so freely, like friends discussing a
football game or neighbors talking over a backyard fence. They went on
diatribes about what is wrong with the war on drugs, bantered freely about
how people can combat the drug and debated the practicalities of drug law
enforcement.

snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:29:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use.<

Oops, I meant, NOT even aftercare of the most professional sort…

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

awww sean,
Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least,
it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face
or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having
the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful
and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in
general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit
smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list.
I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or
not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it
really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 6:02:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

awww sean,
Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
I think many of us are.
I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
experienced.
(This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
seen or heard.)
I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
should get aftercare friend.”
😉
I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
Mood wise I mean.
Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.

Peace and love and respect and care and more love
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a
ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 5:26:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I’m with you dude. It has got to be tough being in your position and feeling more ostracized than just a gay dude, but an addicted gay dude to boot. I don’t know what kind of shit gets laid on you on a day to day basis but it has got to be substantial. I’m not saying to go back to the rooms but maybe a sponsor type, (underline type), might do you some good. Someone you trust to call every day and then when times get tough. BEFORE you use. Using aint the end of the world in my opinion, long as you learn something. but you know as well as I do not every body comes back after they go back out. Your still with us. Consider yourself lucky and get back to the good fight man. You know you can so do it. I want to hear your observations after I come out the other side of the Ibogaine experience. I almost told you the story about one of my best friends, killer guitar player, one of the best I’ve ever played with. Call me and I will. I’ll send you my number off list in case you lost it. Much love to you brother.           Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 3:47:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,

Before you think “.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.”
Please read this, that will make you think twice, and not feel bad about those suicidal medications.
http://www.sickofdoctors.addr.com/articles/top100_aids_inconsistencies.htm

Please do,

Be well,

Sara

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 2:29:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fuck bro, shit
I will be blasting you some cosmic fucking vibes to help
you shake this shit. I’ve gotten some great feedback from peeps on the
list and they are tops. I wish you the best man and please be safe and
careful.  If yer on hiv meds, bro, take them man.

Good luck from a junky in constant limbo as well.
n

Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad,
after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.
I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of
hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I
don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 1:37:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

You are in my thoughts and prayers, sending you a ray of hope and love across the miles.

lori

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD teacher arrested
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:50:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Teacher Arrested
Teacher Arrested
At Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport today, an individual later discovered to
be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while
in, possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and
a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John
Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra
movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math
instruction.
“Al-gebra is a fearsome cult,” Ashcroft said. “They desire average
solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a
search of absolute value. They use secret code names like ‘x’ and ‘y’
and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have determined they
belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates
in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, ‘there
are 3 sides to every triangle.’ When asked to comment on the arrest,
President Bush said, “If God had wanted us to have better weapons of
math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes.”

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 27, 2004 at 12:25:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,

Hang in there. Try to figure out what happened in therapy. You’ve got
great chances, it’s just a question of seeing them.

after a 60 hour work week.

Try to avoid these. If you find yourself coming off one, treat yourself
as sick and go to bed.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:20:23 -0700 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn
toilet again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
mad, after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment
for about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better
results.  I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray
of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide
I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking
fast.

Sean

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 11:57:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Hope is in the wind.
111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 10:38:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,glad to hear you have set up re treatment,it has taken me 3 times & some slips,and many attempts prior to ibogaine as well,sometimes just amking the decision to stop helps me.Regardless ,Im sending you unconditional ove & support-shell

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hey Sean,
I am not going to give advice,as when I am feeling lost and hopeless,the last thing I want to hear is someones advice.
Just remember that when you are feeling hopless,it is only a feeling,it is not who you are.

I am sending hope and love your way Sean, it’s f..ked I know, f..k all this shit,I am sick of it.
I think many of us understand,  well..partly anyway.
You are not alone.                                                  Understanding, and sending hope your way. Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:20 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 9:50:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,
I am not going to give advice,as when I am feeling lost and hopeless,the last thing I want to hear is someones advice.
Just remember that when you are feeling hopless,it is only a feeling,it is not who you are.

I am sending hope and love your way Sean, it’s f..ked I know, f..k all this shit,I am sick of it.
I think many of us understand,  well..partly anyway.
You are not alone.                                                  Understanding, and sending hope your way. Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:20 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 9:05:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh Sean!
Honey, I am so sorry! PLEASE, do not keep kicking yourself! I am afraid I can’t talk you out of it if you have been doing crack, kicking yourself in the ass goes hand in hand with that stuff!
Please Sean, try to get some sleep. Tomorrow is the FIRST day of the rest of your life. The past is the past. Leave it there.
Cry if you need to. DO NOT USE ANY MORE FUCKING CRACK! Do not use any more dope. Surely you are not physically going to withdraw. If you do start though maybe an emergency dosing of Ibogaine can be found.
NO MORE DOPE MAN!
Get your butt to work and do the next right thing. Pray to some higher power even if you don’t believe. Act as if you do.
Do you have a support person in NA or AA? If you do, use them right now. Use anyone who supports you NOT using.
Call me if you start to use again. Before you use, not after.
I am mailing my cell number to your private e-mail.
I love you Sean! Virtual hug coming to you NOW!
(((((Sean)))))
Callie

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 8:34:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean if putting it down, doing treatment(of any kind), and leaving it
alone were easy none of us would be here reading this. Using crack and dope
all weekend is normal behaviour for us. Going to work on Monday geek’d is
normal behaviour. Changing the only thing we know how to do really well is
very challenging, don’t quit trying. I do know EXACTLY how you are feeling
right now..
bf

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 8:19:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry to hear that you are having a rough time of it Sean. Am glad though that you are scheduled for treatment soon. Me to – I’ve got about 6 weeks to go on mine. You are in my thoughts. Ryan (aka Mark)

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:20:23 EDT

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeź Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 7:19:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/26/04 5:21:07 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I
am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no reason
to not take your HIV medications.  If Ibogaine were an approved medication you
would most likely not be having these problems.  Too bad your doctor can’t
hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.

Take care of yourself.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 26, 2004 at 6:20:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

\
Hey list,

Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after a 60 hour work week.  Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about three weeks from now.  Away, where I think it will give me better results.  I am on the verge of tears right now.  Very down.  Looking for a ray of hope.  I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way.  I am sinking fast.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn
Date: September 26, 2004 at 2:05:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This should be interesting.
Hope you do continue to post pre-and post- reports Randy.
As always luck and joy be with you.

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn

Mindvoxians, I can’t believe that this might be the last time I start my
Sunday morning off with a dose of methadone. I am getting so pumped up that
I can’t sleep very well so I got up around 5 and built a fire in the fire
pit and sat around it and played my 9 string and sang till my voice started
crackin’. I am definitely getting nervous about dosing on the first, but I
have some good providers to see me through it and my mother is a nurse
practitioner and she’s way on the ball. I’m in great hands I do believe. I
am so grateful that she showed me this list. I would never have been able to
work out getting treatment without you guys. Thanx to all of you for the
kindness and support you have shown me. O yea, and the stern smack to the
intellect when I needed it just to get me this far. This is just the
beginning from what I understand. I guess I’ll know after I dose on Friday.
Its hard to explain the feelings I am having right now. I think maybe I’ll
start my journal today and write down whats going on and look at it later.
Ought to be interesting later on down the line. This ROCKS     Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) for Mark- call me
Date: September 26, 2004 at 1:21:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “mcorcoran” <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mark, oh disappearing one,
Give me a call. The doorman was confused and didn’t recognize you, so
when you asked, “is Preston here?” he said no, but I was there. By the time
I told him to let you in, you had gone already and I couldn’t find you. V
said you were looking for me, and I felt bad that you split thinking I’d
split. Soooo, give me a call when you get this.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn
Date: September 26, 2004 at 11:08:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy!So glad to hear youre on your way,put on your seat belt!Were here for you when you re enter-Shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Mindvoxians, I can’t believe that this might be the last time I start my Sunday morning off with a dose of methadone. I am getting so pumped up that I can’t sleep very well so I got up around 5 and built a fire in the fire pit and sat around it and played my 9 string and sang till my voice started crackin’. I am definitely getting nervous about dosing on the first, but I have some good providers to see me through it and my mother is a nurse practitioner and she’s way on the ball. I’m in great hands I do believe. I am so grateful that she showed me this list. I would never have been able to work out getting treatment without you guys. Thanx to all of you for the kindness and support you have shown me. O yea, and the stern smack to the intellect when I needed it just to get me this far. This is just the beginning from what I understand. I guess I’ll know after I dose on Friday. Its hard to explain the feelings I am having right now. I think maybe I’ll start my journal today and write down whats going on and look at it later. Ought to be interesting later on down the line. This ROCKS     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence on Sunday morn
Date: September 26, 2004 at 7:21:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvoxians, I can’t believe that this might be the last time I start my Sunday morning off with a dose of methadone. I am getting so pumped up that I can’t sleep very well so I got up around 5 and built a fire in the fire pit and sat around it and played my 9 string and sang till my voice started crackin’. I am definitely getting nervous about dosing on the first, but I have some good providers to see me through it and my mother is a nurse practitioner and she’s way on the ball. I’m in great hands I do believe. I am so grateful that she showed me this list. I would never have been able to work out getting treatment without you guys. Thanx to all of you for the kindness and support you have shown me. O yea, and the stern smack to the intellect when I needed it just to get me this far. This is just the beginning from what I understand. I guess I’ll know after I dose on Friday. Its hard to explain the feelings I am having right now. I think maybe I’ll start my journal today and write down whats going on and look at it later. Ought to be interesting later on down the line. This ROCKS     Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Florida
Date: September 25, 2004 at 11:18:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Patrick and anyone else in Florida! Is it still
there? You have another giant hurricane right over
south florida right now, that’s 3 in a row in the last
2 weeks? Hope everyone is safe and doing well 🙂

Carla B

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 25, 2004 at 10:03:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no
wait a minute thats Judas Priest), <

LOL.
Ahhh, those good ol’ days. I’m now just going to HAVE to play this
tonight while dj’ing.
I’m too tired to write more right now, will add more tomorrow.
But you’ll certainly be able to drive by the 21st if you’re doing it on the
1st and 2nd. No trouble at all so far as I can tell from my own experience.
And yeah, I’m going to have Livin’ After Midnight playing in my head
until I hear it on the soundsystem…thanks Randy.
;-0)))
But of luck and safe journeys on your upcoming shindig with Ibo, I wish
you the best and well.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no
wait a minute thats Judas Priest), for that release party. I’m gonna’ be
treated with Ibogaine on Oct. 1 or 2. Do you think I’ll be able to drive by
then? Its probably about 90 miles from here to the city. And where the hell
can I park? I’ve never been to the city, I think I’ll take the Amtrak in
from Albany or Hudson. Anyway I’d like to be there. You have done a lot of
good work for this project. I don’t post, but I read the Drug War list on my
Moms outlook express thing. I think we all should support artists as much as
we can. God knows nobody gets paid enough until they are huge and then they
don’t need it. Thanx to you guys who paved the way for me any what looks
like soon to be many others to get treatment where we can afford it. You
guys and girls, ROCK. Now I’m gonna’ have Livin’ after Midnight playing in
my head all day. As George Clinton (my favorite Clinton by the way) would
say, “Free your mind and your ass will follow.”                Randy

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and chanting
Date: September 25, 2004 at 8:25:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy,
I repeat that I am no expert on the subject but to my knowledge you want to chant the mantra in such a way that you feel the vibration of the words and this vibration will feel good, or resonate, with you.  Mantra actually sounds very pleasing and I think that the pitch is again what feels good.  You don’t need any special beads or beads at all to do this.  I think the traditional use of the mala is a sort of aid but not a necessity just as one could recite the rosary without using one.
If you want to find out more without spending money http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa021803b.htm discusses the mantra I work with or you can search the net under sound mantra.  The woman that gave me this mantra is not a guru as such but I have always felt good around her and I trust her.  I think that you are drawn to finding out about this so I encourage you to do just that but you can play with it too in the sense of not being afraid to do something wrong.  My teachers always talk about how the wisdom of their tradition is marketed to Westerners.  I, like you, tend to want to understand things intellectually.  I don’t think there is anything negative about that unless it prevents you from playing and enjoying. Best to you Randy!
Mary

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and chanting
Date: September 25, 2004 at 7:50:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary, when you chant like this do you do it in a normal speaking tone? I know you don’t have to do it in certain key or anything but I guess you would just try and not waver up and down and kind of drone it. What about the beads that Nick was speaking of? Would any kind of beads work? I like the idea of using them unless it somehow distracts me. I’m gonna’ try this.                   Randy

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 25, 2004 at 2:40:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps.  If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well.  I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase.  I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles.  Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary
From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 25, 2004 at 12:10:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah Randy, you are so right when I was a little kid (at the end of the 70’s )I loved Judas Priest Music without knowing Rob is a gay. I don’t care if he is gay or not. I’m very older now but I still love Judas Priest. Something deferent with that group and the crew is only when they are together good seperately not (I mean Fight and Two sucks) I Also I love Rainbow, VanHallen, UFO, Led Zeppelin and so many more…

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Fakeplacebo, sorry it takes me so long to get back to ya, but I usually get on the ‘puter about 4 in the morning, do my thing and then get on with the day, so usually its the next day before I answer. Yea I love Priest. Goes back to the early 80’s when I was skinny enough to be a front man/lead singer. Everybody I knew then was in to Judas Priest seems like. I’m not gay but it used to piss me off to here the red necks talk down about gay guys and then go to the bar and scream out “lets hear some Priest” not knowing the singer was gay. What idiots! Rob could wail tho couldn’t he? If I could have screamed like him I’d probably still be fronting a metal band. I guess I just like stuff fast and loud.     ROCK                    Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 25, 2004 at 11:08:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,

Thanks a lot for all the info!  Have an awesome
weekend!

cheers,
Julie
— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is
this
true?

In a message dated 9/24/04 3:03:23 PM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is
there
no difference between the two?

Julie,

There are differences between ibogaine and iboga
(Tabernanthe iboga).
Ibogaine is a purified alkaloid, one of many found
in Tabernanthe iboga.  T. iboga
whether an extract or the bark of the root contains
no less than twelve
alkaloids having various distinct effects and
potencies as well as, in many cases, as
with ibogaine, forming metabolites that may have
similar but distinct
actions.

Ibogaine is both faster acting and shorter acting
than most extracts and
certainly faster and shorter acting than root bark
if for no other reasons than
absorption. For instance, in my personal experience
ibogaine is fully effective
within 1-1/2 hours and the dreamlike visualization
lasts three to four hours.
Total alkaloids extracts I have used took two to
four hours to become fully
effective and the dreamlike visualization phase
lasted eight to twelve hours.
Certainly there are distinctions between the effects
of the purified alkaloid
and the total plant product as twelve alkaloids and
their metabolites will
produce more varied effects than a single alkaloid.
The product in my own
experience that I liked best was 85% – 90% ibogaine
and the balance other iboga
alkaloids principally tabernanthine and ibogamine.
Other than a crude extract
that was 15% total alkaloids, the ibogaine extract
of 85-90% was the least pure
ibogaine product I tried.  Had I had products that
were 75% ibogaine I may have
liked them better.  I will not be able to comment
however, as I never had the
opportunity.

I would be very interested to learn of the
experiences of others.  Three
people could take the same product and have
different effects and that is not just
ibogaine specific.

Whether you use root bark or ibogaine or total
extracts you have to become
familiar with the substance you are using as is the
practice in both shamanic
and western medicine including African practices.

The original quote is found below and you will
notice that the author does
not say iboga, “in it’s natural form was the ONLY
way to go…”

Howard

“You think ibogaine is the only active product in
Iboga? Do you think this
plant has those properties with no meaning? Iboga is
the tree of life, every
single part of the plant has specific functions in
the body, it’s a holistic
therapy. As it is said in Africa, every bitter
médecine is a good médecine, every
sweet médecine is a poison. Scientists think you can
extract a single molecule
and get the active principle, and be more
efficient…Eating Iboga as it is
in its natural form is a proof of courage. If you
have this courage you’ve gone
half the way to overcome your problems. In a
symbolic way, you have to accept
the bitterness of life to really enjoy life.”

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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 25, 2004 at 5:30:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fakeplacebo, sorry it takes me so long to get back to ya, but I usually get on the ‘puter about 4 in the morning, do my thing and then get on with the day, so usually its the next day before I answer. Yea I love Priest. Goes back to the early 80’s when I was skinny enough to be a front man/lead singer. Everybody I knew then was in to Judas Priest seems like. I’m not gay but it used to piss me off to here the red necks talk down about gay guys and then go to the bar and scream out “lets hear some Priest” not knowing the singer was gay. What idiots! Rob could wail tho couldn’t he? If I could have screamed like him I’d probably still be fronting a metal band. I guess I just like stuff fast and loud.     ROCK                    Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:08:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie, it looks like all of those are quotes from
this list, it only means that it’s the opinion of the
person who wrote it. I think this was during a
discussion between some of the bwiti, laurent and
someone at phyto however it is spelled 😉 vegeteux?
I’m sorry if I spelled it wrong.

I think they’re all presented as interesting opinions,
not the one big truth. I’ve done the hcl but would
love to try the extract too.

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Howard,

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is there
no difference between the two?

cheers,
Julie

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’
in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is
this
true?

Julie,

Any statement on the Ibogaine Dossier indicating
such is obviously one
person’s opinion.  Can you provide the url where
that statement was found?
Obviously, ibogaine is also a way to go, as are
extracts and root bark.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 5:14:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is this
true?

In a message dated 9/24/04 3:03:23 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is there
no difference between the two?

Julie,

There are differences between ibogaine and iboga (Tabernanthe iboga).
Ibogaine is a purified alkaloid, one of many found in Tabernanthe iboga.  T. iboga
whether an extract or the bark of the root contains no less than twelve
alkaloids having various distinct effects and potencies as well as, in many cases, as
with ibogaine, forming metabolites that may have similar but distinct
actions.

Ibogaine is both faster acting and shorter acting than most extracts and
certainly faster and shorter acting than root bark if for no other reasons than
absorption. For instance, in my personal experience ibogaine is fully effective
within 1-1/2 hours and the dreamlike visualization lasts three to four hours.
Total alkaloids extracts I have used took two to four hours to become fully
effective and the dreamlike visualization phase lasted eight to twelve hours.
Certainly there are distinctions between the effects of the purified alkaloid
and the total plant product as twelve alkaloids and their metabolites will
produce more varied effects than a single alkaloid.  The product in my own
experience that I liked best was 85% – 90% ibogaine and the balance other iboga
alkaloids principally tabernanthine and ibogamine.  Other than a crude extract
that was 15% total alkaloids, the ibogaine extract of 85-90% was the least pure
ibogaine product I tried.  Had I had products that were 75% ibogaine I may have
liked them better.  I will not be able to comment however, as I never had the
opportunity.

I would be very interested to learn of the experiences of others.  Three
people could take the same product and have different effects and that is not just
ibogaine specific.

Whether you use root bark or ibogaine or total extracts you have to become
familiar with the substance you are using as is the practice in both shamanic
and western medicine including African practices.

The original quote is found below and you will notice that the author does
not say iboga, “in it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…”

Howard

“You think ibogaine is the only active product in Iboga? Do you think this
plant has those properties with no meaning? Iboga is the tree of life, every
single part of the plant has specific functions in the body, it’s a holistic
therapy. As it is said in Africa, every bitter médecine is a good médecine, every
sweet médecine is a poison. Scientists think you can extract a single molecule
and get the active principle, and be more efficient…Eating Iboga as it is
in its natural form is a proof of courage. If you have this courage you’ve gone
half the way to overcome your problems. In a symbolic way, you have to accept
the bitterness of life to really enjoy life.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 4:02:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

You’re probably right- this came from “Quotable
Quotes”, url as follows:

http://www.ibogaine.org/quotes.html

Third guy down the list…But despite that, is there
no difference between the two?

cheers,
Julie

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is
this
true?

Julie,

Any statement on the Ibogaine Dossier indicating
such is obviously one
person’s opinion.  Can you provide the url where
that statement was found?
Obviously, ibogaine is also a way to go, as are
extracts and root bark.

Thanks

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 3:20:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:49:28 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is this
true?

Julie,

Any statement on the Ibogaine Dossier indicating such is obviously one
person’s opinion.  Can you provide the url where that statement was found?
Obviously, ibogaine is also a way to go, as are extracts and root bark.

Thanks

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] nyc crystal forums
Date: September 24, 2004 at 3:03:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Attention: Sean, Preston —

From: danielhivforum@yahoo.com

September 21, 2004

Greetings! Now that autumn is here we would like to get on your calendars with a couple of important events we have planned for the coming months. SAVE THE DATES for the following:

October 16, 2004 Forum: Keep F&@King Safe

Produced in conjunction with NYU’s Gay Pride Month and moderated by John Cameron Mitchell, this forum will be an interactive town-hall meeting that will focus on issues facing gay men under 30 in the age of Internet hook ups, drug use and HIV. The forum will take place from 3-5 pm at NYU’s Kimmel Center located on the corner of West Fourth Street and LaGuardia Place. Seating priority will be given to gay men under age 30.

November 7, 2004 Larry Kramer Where Are We Now? Where Are We Going? Who “Is” We?

We are honored to accept Larry Kramer’s request to produce his first major address to the community since his Act-Up days. Cooper Union’s Great Hall will be the site for this major and historic address. John Cameron Mitchell will host and admission is free. Mr. Kramer’s speech will be followed by a 60-minute question and answer period. The evening begins at 7pm. This event is being made possible through grants from Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS and the Gill Foundation.

December 1, 2004 The Crystal Meth Working Group Launches a New Campaign

CMWG will launch its third anti-crystal awareness campaign working title Crystal Free and Sexy sending the message to gay men that one can be socially and sexually active without using crystal meth.

In addition, to our upcoming events, we wanted to make you aware of a recent New York Times article on crystal meth that highlighted our last forum and the work of the Crystal Meth Working Group. If you would like to read the article, it is available at the New York Times Website:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F4061EF93A5A0C7A8EDDA10894DC404482&incamp=archive:search

More details about these events and other important information can be found on our newly designed Website at www.hivforumnyc.org.

This fall, HIV Forum celebrates one year of public programming around important issues related to gay men’s health. Thank you for participating in our events, offering feedback and for joining us in expanding our message of health and vitality in the community.

Sincerely,
Dan Carlson                         Bruce Kellerhouse, Ph.D.
Co-Founder                         Co-Founder

PLEASE NOTE: This email is not intended to be spam. If you wish to be removed from this email list, then respond to this message with “remove” in the subject box and your name will be taken off the list promptly.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] way off topic! (hahaha!) Just what I always wanted! a deaf genie!
Date: September 24, 2004 at 2:59:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

deaf genie

A man walks into a bar with a paper bag. He sits down and
places the bag on the counter. The bartender walks up and
asks what’s in the bag.

The man reaches into the bag and pulls out a little man,
about one foot high and sets him on the counter. He reaches  back
into the bag and pulls out a small piano, setting it  on the counter
as well. He reaches into the bag once again  and pulls out a tiny
piano bench, which he places in front of the piano.  The little
man sits down at the piano and starts playing a   beautiful piece by
Mozart!

“Where on earth did you get that?” says the bartender.

The man responds by reaching into the paper bag. This time  he pulls
out a magic lamp. He hands it to the bartender and  says: “Here. Rub
it.”

So the bartender rubs the lamp, and suddenly there’s a gust
of smoke and a beautiful genie is standing before him.  “I will
grant you one wish.

Just one wish .. each person is only allowed one!”  The bartender
gets real excited. Without hesitating he says, “I want a million bucks!”

A few moments later, a duck walks into the bar. It is soon
followed by another duck, then another. Pretty soon, the  entire bar
is filled with ducks and they keep coming!

The bartender turns to the man and says, “Y’know, I think   your
genie’s a little deaf. I asked for a million bucks,   not a million ducks.”

“Tell me about it!!” says the man, “do you really think I  asked for
a 12 inch pianist?”

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:48:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

Having done a full dose of the HCL, and only small
amounts of iboga root bark, I am wondering: has anyone
noticed fundamental differences in the experiences?
Is it without question that HCL will produce a
stronger, more vibrant trip, or can iboga parallel the
HCL?

I was reading a short paragraph on the Ibogaine
Dossier, that said consuming the ‘tree of life’ in
it’s natural form was the ONLY way to go…  Is this
true?

I would be interested in talking to someone who has
done full therapeutic doses of both; someone who
wouldn’t mind comparing and contrasting the effects,
intensity and duration….

luv Julie  🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic- FBI (hahahahaha!!)
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:24:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was hilarious….

Julie
— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

Hello, is this the FBI?”

Yes. What can I do for  you?”

“Im calling to report about my neighbor Virgil
Smith.He is  hiding
marijuana inside his firewood!”

“Thank you very much for  the call, sir.”

The next day, the FBI agents descend on Virgil’s
house. They search
the shed where the firewood is kept. Using axes,
they bust open every
piece of wood, but find no marijuana. They sneer  at
Virgil and leave.

The phone rings at Virgil’s house. “Hey, Virgil!
This here is Floyd.
Did the FBI  come?”

“Yeah!”

“Did they chop your  firewood?”
“Yep.”

“Happy Birthday, buddy!

Who Says Rednecks Aren’t Real  Bright?

_______________________________
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Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 10:04:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you for THIS post, Sara.  It speaks volumes to me.  I had never stopped to think
about why I love listening to birds, dogs, wind, frogs, etc. until I read what you say here.
It is my therapy or one of my sources of joy.  Randy and I share this love of sound which
is a wonderful bond between us.  You have a gift of helping people focus on the obvious 🙂

best

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:18 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara

Dear Callie,

No hard feelings on this side. I would love to come, especially to swim with dolphins.
People are talking about therapy with sound and Mantras, I think that if people just listen to birds, cats . dogs , dolphins, wheals, wind and frogs, that
Would sound very much like a sound therapy.

I’m also a peyote grower and  would love to visit Native people on a Native Land.

Callie, thanks anyways for offering your apology.

With love,

Sara
Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 september 2004 6:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Sara

Sara, I think I owe you an apology and I am very embarrassed. I am so sorry if I hurt you or may have embarrassed you.
Like I said before, I have NEVER traveled outside the USA. I don’t think I truly can grasp how different Europe/Asia is. I also have not ever stopped to consider how people that have never been to USA perceive it.
I reread my replies to you and I feel I may sound pompous and arrogant. If you also think I was please forgive me. I do not want to be perceived that way because I am not. When I come across like that it is not my intention, it is my ignorance of lifestyles and feeling of those across the ocean.
If indeed you have not visited USA you should try to visit. I think you would love it.
Tennessee, where I have lived my entire life is charming and has beautiful landscapes. We have flatlands in the Memphis area. In Nashville (the city I live in) we have rolling green, grassy hills and beautiful trees such as, oak, maple, pine, fir, birch, dogwood and my favorite, weeping willows. In Knoxville and Chattanooga there are mountains.
The people here are for the most part courteous and very hospitable. Most native Tennesseeans work hard at being hospitable and we are known as the ‘Volunteer State’.
I LOVE living in the USA! I feel quite certain also that I would love to also live in Europe in my lifetime. It is probably just a dream I will carry to my grave. A girl can dream though, can’t she!
Again, so sorry for my assumptions. I hope you will forgive me.
Peace, Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic- FBI (hahahahaha!!)
Date: September 24, 2004 at 8:25:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, that was the coolest post I have seen in a long time. I’m gonna repeat the hell out of that.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad just some
Date: September 24, 2004 at 8:09:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I personally never said all, underline all, dealers were “bad” just the ones who prey on addicts. And I mean prey on them. Hell a lot of the sprung dealers that I knew were pretty good guys. They were addicted too so they never fucked me around like the ones who weren’t hooked. They would even front me ’cause they knew I wasn’t going to screw up any connection to the dope and they wanted to keep my business man ’cause I had a pretty good job most of the time. As for smoke and shrooms and shit like that if they would just legalize ’em there wouldn’t be any problem now would there? There used to be some honor among dealers but crack screwed that up in my opinion. And I realize  that my opinion don’t mean shit but there you have it. We joke, we smoke, get used to it. (new slogan for pot head comedians).                            Randy

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 24, 2004 at 5:20:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey BiscuitBoy,

Judas Priest is not a rarely known band but I always love Robe’s sound very much so it’s suprized me that you mentioned about Priest. Do you like Judas??

Best Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no wait a minute thats Judas Priest), for that release party. I’m gonna’ be treated with Ibogaine on Oct. 1 or 2. Do you think I’ll be able to drive by then? Its probably about 90 miles from here to the city. And where the hell can I park? I’ve never been to the city, I think I’ll take the Amtrak in from Albany or Hudson. Anyway I’d like to be there. You have done a lot of good work for this project. I don’t post, but I read the Drug War list on my Moms outlook express thing. I think we all should support artists as much as we can. God knows nobody gets paid enough until they are huge and then they don’t need it. Thanx to you guys who paved the way for me any what looks like soon to be many others to get treatment where we can afford it. You guys and girls, ROCK. Now I’m gonna’ have Livin’ after Midnight playing in my head all day. As George Clinton (my favorite Clinton by the way) would say, “Free your mind and your ass will follow.”                Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 24, 2004 at 5:13:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I would love to hit the city ’bout a one a:m loaded, loaded, (no wait a minute thats Judas Priest), for that release party. I’m gonna’ be treated with Ibogaine on Oct. 1 or 2. Do you think I’ll be able to drive by then? Its probably about 90 miles from here to the city. And where the hell can I park? I’ve never been to the city, I think I’ll take the Amtrak in from Albany or Hudson. Anyway I’d like to be there. You have done a lot of good work for this project. I don’t post, but I read the Drug War list on my Moms outlook express thing. I think we all should support artists as much as we can. God knows nobody gets paid enough until they are huge and then they don’t need it. Thanx to you guys who paved the way for me any what looks like soon to be many others to get treatment where we can afford it. You guys and girls, ROCK. Now I’m gonna’ have Livin’ after Midnight playing in my head all day. As George Clinton (my favorite Clinton by the way) would say, “Free your mind and your ass will follow.”                Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- beads
Date: September 24, 2004 at 4:34:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, ya know I hadn’t really looked at the act of using beads although its talked about in the info. I kind of skipped over that. And although I’m not Catholic I have always admired the Rosary beads that they use. I’m going to check into Tachyon beads and see what they will do for me. I think that some of the psychosomatic symptoms that I display (I don’t know ’bout yall) will have to be addressed using any and all alternative methods available. Thanx for pointing this out.            Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 3:32:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tell me Sara,(mmmm turnedback to black now)do you think it makes much of a difference
whether you are on 35mg(7ml) or 55mg(11ml) when you have the Ibogaine?
smiles Jasen
(I dont know what is going on,it keeps changing colours?)

Hi Jasen,

Here is the same, it was dark and raining few minutes ago , now it is blue and sunny,
The answer is No, it doesn’t really matter, what is matter is how a person feels during and after.
One will feel it hard to come off 10mg and the other will feel that’s the easiest detox. ever when they are on 100mg.
how many times a person went through drug withdrawals in their lives, how old they are, what pain level which they can handle?
I don’t think that you need to reduce the Methadone, unless you like to.

With love,

Sara

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 2:53:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara

Thank you Jasen! that叚 very kind of you, I 径 sure my kids would love that too,
when the animal have it good the people will follow.
I hope that the Australian forests are recovering from the fires,
Do you think those fires are  due to Global warming?
Remember Jasen, you are welcome here too.

Enjoy!

Sara
*I think most of the bush fires here are started by pyromaniacs
Yes, I will definatley be comming,I am just waiting,
I Said (mmm thats weird my writing just turned blue) 4 weeks, about 3 weeks ago
however I was a couple of weeks out.I hope to be booking a flight in the next 2 to 3 weeks.

The clinic here knows nothing about Ibogaine and think I should reduce slowly,
however that has not worked for me,so Ibogaine here I come.
I am so looking forward to it.I understand I should not be to hopeful and set my self up for
a big downer,however whatever happens happens,it will be an experience.

I sincerley believe that I have been recieving help spiritualy since the passing of my beautful
brother,best friend and confidant.

Hey,…my beliefs work for me,if I didnot have strong faith in what I believe in,I would have
gone home a long time ago.

Tell me Sara,(mmmm turned back to black now)do you think it makes much of a difference
whether you are on 35mg(7ml) or 55mg(11ml) when you have the Ibogaine?
smiles Jasen
(I dont know what is going on,it keeps changing colours?)

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 2:28:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Jasen! that’s very kind of you, I ‘m sure my kids would love that too,
when the animal have it good the people will follow.
I hope that the Australian forests are recovering from the fires,
Do you think those fires are  due to Global warming?
Remember Jasen, you are welcome here too.

Enjoy!

Sara

Van: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 september 2004 7:35
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara

Dear Sara,
Come to the land of OZ,you can kiss all the koala’s you want
and would also be very welcomed here as well.
Smiles Jasen

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 1:34:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara,
Come to the land of OZ,you can kiss all the koala’s you want
and would also be very welcomed here as well.
Smiles Jasen

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 1:18:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Callie,

No hard feelings on this side. I would love to come, especially to swim with dolphins.
People are talking about therapy with sound and Mantras, I think that if people just listen to birds, cats . dogs , dolphins, wheals, wind and frogs, that
Would sound very much like a sound therapy.

I’m also a peyote grower and  would love to visit Native people on a Native Land.

Callie, thanks anyways for offering your apology.

With love,

Sara
Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 september 2004 6:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Sara

Sara, I think I owe you an apology and I am very embarrassed. I am so sorry if I hurt you or may have embarrassed you.
Like I said before, I have NEVER traveled outside the USA. I don’t think I truly can grasp how different Europe/Asia is. I also have not ever stopped to consider how people that have never been to USA perceive it.
I reread my replies to you and I feel I may sound pompous and arrogant. If you also think I was please forgive me. I do not want to be perceived that way because I am not. When I come across like that it is not my intention, it is my ignorance of lifestyles and feeling of those across the ocean.
If indeed you have not visited USA you should try to visit. I think you would love it.
Tennessee, where I have lived my entire life is charming and has beautiful landscapes. We have flatlands in the Memphis area. In Nashville (the city I live in) we have rolling green, grassy hills and beautiful trees such as, oak, maple, pine, fir, birch, dogwood and my favorite, weeping willows. In Knoxville and Chattanooga there are mountains.
The people here are for the most part courteous and very hospitable. Most native Tennesseeans work hard at being hospitable and we are known as the ‘Volunteer State’.
I LOVE living in the USA! I feel quite certain also that I would love to also live in Europe in my lifetime. It is probably just a dream I will carry to my grave. A girl can dream though, can’t she!
Again, so sorry for my assumptions. I hope you will forgive me.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara
Date: September 24, 2004 at 12:28:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I think I owe you an apology and I am very embarrassed. I am so sorry if I hurt you or may have embarrassed you.
Like I said before, I have NEVER traveled outside the USA. I don’t think I truly can grasp how different Europe/Asia is. I also have not ever stopped to consider how people that have never been to USA perceive it.
I reread my replies to you and I feel I may sound pompous and arrogant. If you also think I was please forgive me. I do not want to be perceived that way because I am not. When I come across like that it is not my intention, it is my ignorance of lifestyles and feeling of those across the ocean.
If indeed you have not visited USA you should try to visit. I think you would love it.
Tennessee, where I have lived my entire life is charming and has beautiful landscapes. We have flatlands in the Memphis area. In Nashville (the city I live in) we have rolling green, grassy hills and beautiful trees such as, oak, maple, pine, fir, birch, dogwood and my favorite, weeping willows. In Knoxville and Chattanooga there are mountains.
The people here are for the most part courteous and very hospitable. Most native Tennesseeans work hard at being hospitable and we are known as the ‘Volunteer State’.
I LOVE living in the USA! I feel quite certain also that I would love to also live in Europe in my lifetime. It is probably just a dream I will carry to my grave. A girl can dream though, can’t she!
Again, so sorry for my assumptions. I hope you will forgive me.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic- FBI (hahahahaha!!)
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:54:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello, is this the FBI?”

Yes. What can I do for you?”

“Im calling to report about my neighbor Virgil Smith.He is hiding
marijuana inside his firewood!”

“Thank you very much for the call, sir.”

The next day, the FBI agents descend on Virgil’s house. They search
the shed where the firewood is kept. Using axes, they bust open every
piece of wood, but find no marijuana. They sneer at Virgil and leave.

The phone rings at Virgil’s house. “Hey, Virgil! This here is Floyd.
Did the FBI come?”

“Yeah!”

“Did they chop your firewood?”
“Yep.”

“Happy Birthday, buddy!

Who Says Rednecks Aren’t Real Bright?

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Man Who Was Shot Had Legal Marijuana
Date: September 23, 2004 at 10:14:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “doug” <doug@voterpower.org>
To: <doug@voterpower.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: Man Who Was Shot Had Legal Marijuana

The story below is a tragic example of why we need secure dispensaries,
why it’s so important for Measure 33 to pass in Oregon.
Doug

————

Pubdate: 23 Sep 2004
Webpage:

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/metro_east_news/109594071789031.xml?oregonian?en
Source: The Oregonian
Author: Stuart Tomlinson
Copyright: © 2004 OregonLive.com.

Man who was shot had legal marijuana

Police are investigating the incident where two or more suspects wounded
a Southeast Portland man

A Southeast Portland man who was shot and wounded Monday morning by at
least two men was apparently targeted for his medical marijuana, police
said Wednesday.

Sgt. Brian Schmautz, spokesman for the Portland Police Bureau, said the
33-year-old victim, who lives in the 13000 block of Southeast Tessa
Street, is one of more than 10,000 Oregonians enrolled in the Oregon
Medical Marijuana Program. Schmautz said the man had a legal marijuana
growing operation at his home.

The man was shot in the abdomen, Schmautz said. Police said the man
asked them not to name the hospital where he’s being treated.

“He’s talking with detectives, but doesn’t want to release any details
about his condition,” Schmautz said.

Police have no suspects in custody and aren’t sure whether two or more
men tried to enter the victim’s house.

“We do know it was more than one,” he said.

The shooting occurred just before 9:30 a.m. Witnesses told police they
heard screaming and the pops of about three gunshots before someone
yelled, “Why are you doing this?”

Someone saw a young man in a black coat sprinting from the area, and
police later found a black coat and a red coat in an alley off Division
Street.

Schmautz said the shooting occurred in the doorway of the victim’s
residence; the men never got inside, and nothing was taken.

According to the Oregon Department of Human Services Web site, the No. 1
reason patients gave for asking for medical marijuana was for pain,
followed by persistent muscle spasms, and nausea. As of July, 10,196
patients were enrolled in the program.

Under Oregon law, those enrolled in the program can possess “three
mature marijuana plants, four immature marijuana plants and one ounce of
usable marijuana per each mature plant” in their homes.

Anyone with any information on the shooting is asked to call Detective
Cordes Towle of the Portland Police Bureau at 503-823-0464.

Stuart Tomlinson: 503-294-5940; stuarttomlinson@news.oregonian.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..Nick
Date: September 23, 2004 at 9:39:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would have to agree with Julie.
Jasen
Nick,

I’m glad that you have found a foolproof method of
getting through tough times- a lot of us, however,
have not, and thus seeking and exploring new or
alternative medicines/pathways would seem a necessary
step in our own personal evolution and development.
For me, being addicted to junk was like being a record
stuck in a groove, skipping repeatedly, producing
nothing and going nowhere.  What helped me,
personally, to move beyond this, was a mixture of more
positive ‘alternative’ lifestyle and personal
self-exploration.

I think we might be forgetting something- what works
for one person might not work for another.  Life is so
subjective that it’s simply not wise to dismiss
everything ‘spiritual’ cuz you might not have had a
good experience with it.  One (wo)man’s treasure is
another’s refuse…One (wo)man’s strength is another’s
Achilles heel.  I say- whatever works, GO WITH IT!!

regards,
Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] way, way way ot..about flicks on tv and chanting
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:53:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No it did not. In the end Nicholson almost kills him  while Quaid runs but
they stop him and take him. Sort of, We had some cool times, showed you a
little life, but life goes on anyway.<

I saw all the way up to where they were arriving at the prison, but then
walked away, hoping against hope that somehow, right at the last second, the
chanting actually got him freed.
Alas, I take it no?
But yes, twas a good movie. I’ve seen photos of Nicholson in that swabby hat
before, but never the film.
I also finally sat all the way through Dog Day  Afternoon yesterday. That
was a great flick too.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re:
[ibogaine] Welco…

Hey Preston. No it did not. In the end Nicholson almost kills him  while
Quaid runs but they stop him and take him. Sort of, We had some cool times,
showed you a little life, but life goes on anyway. Good movie too.

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:45:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

only a movie? Whatchoo talkin’ bout Willis?
Tweren’t realife?
Hmmmm.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marcus” <aktionman@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine]
Welcome to Mary….was good book

On 9/23/2004, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Has anyone else seen The Last Detail? I watched it yesterday on the
boobtube
but missed the very end so I don’t know Randy Quaid’s
chanting kept him out of the military stockade or not.
Please help clue me in, someone, anyone. Did his chanting work in the
end or not?

doodhh……..it’zohhnly a movie. who cares if it worked in a moowvie!
but…….if it werkz fer real………sign meeyup!

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 23, 2004 at 2:03:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
(i forgot the name(s)
> of the Mexico ones…)
>

Rosarita, Mexico, isn’t it???

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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– Medically supervised treatment with the Ibogaine Association near San Diego in Rosarito, Mexico. Licensed facility. Basic treatment is four or five days long and costs $3300. Extended treatment for methadone patients is 6 days long and costs $4500. Visit www.ibogaine-therapy.net for further details IBOGAINE’S LEGAL STATUS IN MEXICO IS “UNLICENSED EXPERIMENTAL MEDICATION”
I think there is another one too, but I can’t find the letter, I’ll look around.
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 1:57:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Umm, “good”/”bad” is pretty subjective and perhaps over simplistic.  Without writing several pages, I’ll just say the line that “seperates” “good” from “bad” is in every heart, it’s the placement of the “line” that seems to effect whether we over demonize or make ’em into saints.

Bottom line is, everyone’s got to eat, so I suppose everyone is parasitic to a point, but some appear to have redeaming qualities that can make balance that out a bit.

Re: tv or BP (brain pacifier) had a decent show on PBS about secular and non-secular points of view, mainly through the eyes of Frued and Lewis, not bad I guess.  I wasn’t aware that Frued died from on purpose opiate overdose.
After thinking about the question of ‘higher power’ I seem to be rooted in the beleif that their is no question that their are many powers in nature that are much much larger then I am.  What I don’t believe is that this force is somehow working for ‘good’, be that the good of all people or is somehow working for me, that seems to be control junkies trying to control the uncontrolable.  It is what it is.  How can it not = chaos?

Re: therapy, if it leads to positive action then it is worthwhile, if it doesn’t, then it is a waste of time.  This has been my expereince, esp. w/ sound, but remember I know nothing.

Preston, good to see your book will get read, I’d like to see the t-shirt, retail activism indeed.

Mark, that post was awesome.

Sean, keep strong.

Re: Laws in America.  Umm…if they don’t enforce it why give our goverment the option to enforce it if they want to?  Does freedom = having bad laws but not enforcing them?  sounds a little silly to me.

Hypothetically speaking of course, if someone had experience to offer, I wonder if they would feel comfortable sharing that here.  Who knows. “a good aftercare suggestion” lol riiight ;  pro’s and con’s of being hypnotized by “ibo pimps” and political lobbyz
“Stepping off the hamster wheel at the moment” can sound like a reasonable idea

rewind vox dogma

Just the thoughts of another ibo treated rat.

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Preston,

Bartenders aren’t ‘bad’- they’ll cut you off if they
see you’re in no shape to be drinking more.
Personally, I think crack and dope dealers are the
worst, but even then, there might be exceptions.

Dealers aren’t BAD, per se- they’re just parasitic.
Especially the kind who KNOW you’re trying to kick,
yet call you anyways, cuz they’re “in the
neighbourhood.” Do you know how hard it can be to say
NO to H on day 3 of withdrawal? Oh wait, you probably
do…. 🙂

That being said, I had ONE semi-noble junk dealer back
in the day, who wouldn’t answer my pages during my
detox, and who even got me a couple oxys and valiums
for my kick-kit. The only reason he did this, though,
was cuz my boyfriend at the time threatened to kick
his ass if he caught him selling me dope…

Someone else here said something that holds true: if
the dealer is a user him/herself, they are generally
cooler people, cuz they know the deal. The dope
dealers in Toronto, for the most one, are NOT
junk-fiends, just money-hungry hogs or 18-21 year old
Asian/Latino gangbangas. My regular supplier of
weed/E/other pharmis is a cool guy(he’s older) and a
pretty close friend, who has even offered to be a
silent partner in several business ventures.

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:58:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(i forgot the name(s)
of the Mexico ones…)

Rosarita, Mexico, isn’t it???

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welco…
Date: September 23, 2004 at 1:26:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston. No it did not. In the end Nicholson almost kills him  while Quaid runs but they stop him and take him. Sort of, We had some cool times, showed you a little life, but life goes on anyway. Good movie too.

Julian

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:42:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Bartenders aren’t ‘bad’- they’ll cut you off if they
see you’re in no shape to be drinking more.
Personally, I think crack and dope dealers are the
worst, but even then, there might be exceptions.

Dealers aren’t BAD, per se- they’re just parasitic.
Especially the kind who KNOW you’re trying to kick,
yet call you anyways, cuz they’re “in the
neighbourhood.”  Do you know how hard it can be to say
NO to H on day 3 of withdrawal?  Oh wait, you probably
do….  🙂

That being said, I had ONE semi-noble junk dealer back
in the day, who wouldn’t answer my pages during my
detox, and who even got me a couple oxys and valiums
for my kick-kit.  The only reason he did this, though,
was cuz my boyfriend at the time threatened to kick
his ass if he caught him selling me dope…

Someone else here said something that holds true: if
the dealer is a user him/herself, they are generally
cooler people, cuz they know the deal.  The dope
dealers in Toronto, for the most one, are NOT
junk-fiends, just money-hungry hogs or 18-21 year old
Asian/Latino gangbangas.  My regular supplier of
weed/E/other pharmis is a cool guy(he’s older) and a
pretty close friend, who has even offered to be a
silent partner in several business ventures.

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:34:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im new to this list.. I have read  a lot of  the
experience that Iboga wields and  thought
it has tremendous psychotherapeutic  potential.
I would be willing to travel to places  overseas
to actually work with this entheogen..how  far
does one have to travel (from california) to  find
a workshop where it is legal with a  seasoned,trustworthy guide?

The closest treatment centres to you (that operate legally) would be in
Canada (Iboga Therapy House, Vancouver) and Mexico (i forgot the name(s)
of the Mexico ones…)

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:20:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Something occured to me the other day.
Is it only dope dealers that some of you consider “bad” or is it all
dealers? Are alcohol dealers “bad” too? I mean, ’cause V is a dealer, a
bartender to be specific, and I happen to know she isn’t at all “bad”
unless
you mess with her- then she can be more than “bad” she can be downright
scary.

Even most dope dealers i encountered were really just victims of
prohibitionist policies themselves. I mean, sure, they were generally
pretty nasty people.. but they were kids brought up in the ghetto, without
any real hope of good education, a decent job, etc. Because of
prohibition, they’re able to make an awful lot of money.. if you put
yourself in their position, and the choice is either work at mickey d’s
(if you’re lucky) and live in absolute squalor and poverty, or become a
dealer and make bank… well, i don’t think it takes much imagination to
see why dealing dope would seem like a reasonable decision, given the
choices…

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:22:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can you write how its supposed to sound?
Thanx
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.  I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed to sound  (917-385-8173)

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:20:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.  I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed to sound  (917-385-8173)

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:01:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/23/2004, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Has anyone else seen The Last Detail? I watched it yesterday on the boobtube
but missed the very end so I don’t know Randy Quaid’s
chanting kept him out of the military stockade or not.
Please help clue me in, someone, anyone. Did his chanting work in the
end or not?

doodhh……..it’zohhnly a movie. who cares if it worked in a moowvie!
but…….if it werkz fer real………sign meeyup!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] dealers (not) bad
Date: September 23, 2004 at 11:07:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Something occured to me the other day.
Is it only dope dealers that some of you consider “bad” or is it all
dealers? Are alcohol dealers “bad” too? I mean, ’cause V is a dealer, a
bartender to be specific, and I happen to know she isn’t at all “bad” unless
you mess with her- then she can be more than “bad” she can be downright
scary.
But seriously, I think it’s a major mistake for us to lump all dealers
into some catagory based on our experiences with mainly young,
not-so-risk-adverse hoody types, who these day are usually the main ones
willing to take the risk of dealing- but because they too are innundated
with the anti-drug propaganda, their opinions about junkies are colored, not
only by the desperation and filth they see on a daily basis on the part of
their customers. Yes, many of the street dealers I’ve dealt with in any
prohibitionist country suck bigtime, but not all of them did- and certainly
most “dealers” I know of many assorted drugs are fine upstanding people.
So I was just rethinking about this the other day, and wanted to voice
my continued opposition to labeling all dealers, even those slinging dope,
are slime.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (somewhat OT- on chanting) Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 9:38:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anyone else seen The Last Detail? I watched it yesterday on the boobtube
(yeah, I know, why is my boobtube even on again? I apologize, but like most
any mind altering drug that I’ve found pleasure/pinrelief/distraction/wasted
time on/beennumbedby/etc, it called me back and I came, kicking and
screaming the entire time but finally relenting, but just a little, just one
hit, one minute, one drag, one pull, one hit, just one, I promise and I’ll
put it back down), but missed the very end so I don’t know Randy Quaid’s
chanting kept him out of the military stockade or not.
Please help clue me in, someone, anyone. Did his chanting work in the
end or not?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept
before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is
supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.
I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and
rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that
the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you
find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels
good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do
let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed
to sound  (917-385-8173)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 23, 2004 at 9:18:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can see why you were scared.  They would scare me too.<

In lots and lots and lots of regards, Sara is totally correct in that the US
treats all incoming foreigners now as potential terrorists no matter if it’s
justified in the slightest or not. (I may be overstating the case, but I
don’t think so.) Now it turns out that Sara isn’t alone in fearing travel
in(to) the US. We ourselves have more and more to fear from the nanny state
traveling inSIDE the US.
(So, I post the following excerpts, even though they are pretty off topic
here- the first is about our own domestic travel troubles, and then those
for foreigner visitors to the US.)
—-

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/9737763.htm?1c

snip-

I draw the line at letting the folks in Washington, D.C., know what I eat.
Not only is it none of their business: The chances are huge that whatever it
tells them will be used wrongly.
This is no idle dessert banter. The Transportation Security Administration
announced Wednesday that it would require every domestic airline to turn
over records of passengers they carried in June. The idea is to test a new
system to identify suspected terrorists.
The records include name, address, telephone number, the names of others
traveling in the same party, the method of payment, and yes — meal
preference.
Order a low-salt kosher meal on the flight from San Jose to Atlanta last
June? Drink a daiquiri on the way to Los Angeles? Get ready for those facts
to find a permanent home in Attorney General John Ashcroft’s cookie jar.
Never mind that this sounds suspiciously like a failed government project,
called CAPPS 2, which would have identified not only potential “no fly”
terrorists but people wanted on warrants for violent crime.
Never mind that these are the kind of passenger records that caused a hue
and cry a couple of years ago when Delta Air Lines voluntarily shared them
with the government.
Nope, it’s now official policy: The government is demanding the records. The
airlines are turning them over. And the rest of us have to take it, much
like we have to content ourselves with a granola bar on certain flights.
The shame of it is that it isn’t going to get us any closer to the
terrorists.
snip-
—-
http://immigration.about.com/library/weekly/aa042602a.htm
snip-
Let’s look at some of the most important legislative and policy changes that
are underway or already realized. Some were a direct result of post-9/11
concerns, while others have simply been influenced by them:
New policy for foreign students and visitors: some seven months after 9/11,
the INS issued a new rule pertaining to foreign students who want to study
in the U.S., to travelers who visit for either pleasure or business, and to
persons ordered deported. Effective upon publication in the Federal
Register, the proposal calls for:
-Students to have a confirmation of acceptance from a U.S. school before
they enter the country. Students to no longer be allowed to apply to a
school if they’re already in the U.S., and instead must return to their home
countries to do so.
-Tourists and business travelers to be limited to a 30 day stay in the U.S.,
or to the amount of time definitively required to complete their trip. The
maximum extended stay to go from one year to six months with extensions
given only under very specific, limited conditions.
-Persons ordered deported or removed from the U.S. to surrender within 30
days or forfeit all rights to appeal and asylum.

245(i), which allows certain illegal aliens to adjust their status to that
of permanent resident if they had a sponsor, was temporarily revived last
year and an extension seemed likely this year. Congress passed the border
security bill which included this amendment, but the Senate recently removed
the amendment and the prospects don’t look good, though the details are not
final as of this writing. (This was incorrectly referred to as amnesty by
some politicians and media. Amnesty refers to a blanket pardon of illegal
immigrant status.*)

Border Security Plan for U.S.-Mexico: on his recent trip to Mexico and other
Latin-American countries, President Bush announced his new border security
plan that would expedite traffic and goods and weed out terrorists, drug
dealers and so-called coyotes, immigrant smugglers. For people crossing the
border daily to go to work, this can be a hassle. Similar actions have been
taken at the American-Canadian border, where the number of Border Patrol
agents has been increased and National Guard troops have been dispatched for
support. One major aspect of border control includes national guards along
the border.

Police in Florida were given the right to detain people for immigration
violations. In the past, only federal agents could do so. Florida was set as
the “test” state, with plans for other states to follow its lead.

*Amnesty for illegal Mexicans: this issue was seriously discussed between
President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox last September, before
9/11. Amnesty offers forgiveness to certain groups of illegal immigrants,
allowing them to adjust status to that of permanent resident, without
penalty. The most recent amnesty was to be for Mexicans, which did spark
some anger among other immigrants groups. Also discussed were certain
working visa programs for unskilled Mexican workers. Unfortunately for the
many illegal Mexicans in this country, this issue has been put on the
backburner, overshadowed by the 9/11 events and replaced with the
above-mentioned talks about heightened border security. Many Mexicans are
angry, and blame Islamic extremists for their troubles.

International tracking systems using means of identification such as
national i.d. cards and even fingerprints are being recommended and
reviewed. In the future, it may be impossible to fake your identity or your
immigration status.

The visa waiver program allows nationals from some countries to enter the
U.S. for a limited time without having to obtain a visa. Due to a illegal
immigration problems, Argentina was removed from participation. Other
countries may also be excluded. Though not directly related to 9/11, a
general crack down may have influenced the decision.

Automatic revalidation for some third country nationals was canceled. For
years, persons in legal visitor status to the U.S. could visit Canada,
Mexico or approved adjacent islands for up to 30 days and then return to the
U.S. using their existing I-94. Now, persons from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya,
Sudan, North Korea and Cuba may not be automatically revalidated. Nor can
those who apply for a new visa while abroad. The latter may cause problems
for many innocent people who apply for a change of status and simply want to
cross the border to pick it up, rather than having to return home to a
distant and expensive-to-get-to land.

No more J-visa waiver for physicians: Foreign students who come to the U.S.
for medical training are required to go back to their home countries for 2
years before they can return to the U.S. The J waiver program for physicians
made it possible for them to stay if they would agree to work in medically
underserved areas, obtain such an offer and got appropriate government
sponsorship. The plug was pulled on this program in February, 2002. Although
this affects a very small niche of immigrants, the timing is suspicious and
its impact could be devastating for areas with a shortage of medical
treatment, and for the physicians aspiring to immigrate.

Perhaps the biggest change yet is the dismantling of the Immigration and
Naturalization Service. Yes, the INS as we knew it for many years, is no
more. First, the House Judiciary Committee voted 32-2 to recommend a bill
that would put an end to the INS. The bill proposed that the 69 year old
agency be replaced with a new Agency for Immigration Affairs under the
Department of Justice, headed by an Associate Attorney General for
Immigration Affairs. Two new bureaus would be established: The new Bureau of
Immigration Services and Adjudications would take over all immigration
applications/processing and status/record keeping functions. The Bureau of
Immigration Enforcement would handle control and prosecution of immigration
violations and legal matters. The bill also provides for funding, better
organization and means for handling refugee emergencies. It was passed by a
405-9 vote by the House of Representatives on 04/25/02.

Tying the changes together
The nationwide effort to gain more control over immigration includes
heightened border security, new restrictions on certain visa categories and
on visitors, and the abolishment of the INS. For people entering the U.S. it
means more scrutiny with more questions being asked about their motives to
come here. Stricter controls of passengers and their luggage on airports are
already in place, and will probably be part of air travel for a long time.
Big-brother-like scenarios may become a reality.
snip-
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Sara,

Yea, they are old laws still on the books.  But they are no longer enforced.
You said your were wrong about the laws in FL.  No big deal, you live in
another country, how are you to know which are enforced and which are not.
All the laws that you sent are no longer enforced.  I can see why you were
scared.  They would scare me too.

But you got friends on the forum that will help you out.  Like Callie said
you can do it without fear of arrest.   If you have any questions you can
write to any of us, we will all be glad to help you.  I think you would like
Ft. Lauderdale and Hollywood Beach (they are right next to each other) and
you would like the Keys, Key Largo is my favorite.  Key West is a strange
place but pretty safe and there is a lot to do.  Try VERY hard to keep out
of Miami, the crime rate is high.  And they prey on tourists (try to rob
them because they know they will not come back for the trial and they will
have to let them go).  You will LOVE the nice clear water, wear sun screen,
you can get a bad sun burn and not know it until it is too late. However, at
this time of year it is not too bad.

Have Fun,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Jim, maybe I was wrong about FL. but hey look starge thing are happening
everywhere,who thought about this?

No man is allowed to make love to his wife with the smell of garlic, onions,
or sardines on his breath in Alexandria, Minnesota. If his wife so requests,
law mandates that he must brush his teeth.
Warn your hubby that after lovemaking in Ames, Iowa, he isn’t allowed to
take more than three gulps of beer while lying in bed with you-or holding
you in his arms.
Bozeman, Montana, has a law that bans all sexual activity between members of
the opposite sex in the front yard of a home after sundown-if they’re nude.
(Apparently, if you wear socks, you’re safe from the law!)
During lunch breaks in Carlsbad, New Mexico no couple should engage in a
sexual act while parked in their vehicle, unless their car has curtains.
In Cleveland, Ohio women are not allowed to wear patent-leather shoes.
Clinton, Oklahoma has a law against masturbating while watching two people
having sex in a car.
It’s safe to make love while parked in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Police officers
aren’t allowed to walk up and knock on the window. Any suspicious officer
who thinks that sex is taking place must drive up from behind, honk his horn
three times and wait approximately two minutes before getting out of his car
to investigate. [Hmmm… okay, there’s one place with a law that makes
sense… -psl]
In Connorsville, Wisconsin no man shall shoot off a gun while his female
partner is having a sexual orgasm.
In Detroit, couples are not allowed to make love in an automobile unless the
act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
A law in Fairbanks, Alaska does not allow moose to have sex on city streets.
In Florida it is illegal for single, divorced, or widowed women to parachute
on Sunday afternoons.
In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania it is illegal to have sex with a truck driver
inside a toll booth.
The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each
guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are
married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they
are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.
Another law in Helena, Montana, mandates that a woman can’t dance on a table
in a saloon or bar unless she has on at least three pounds, two ounces of
clothing.
A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master,
not mister, when addressed by their female counterparts.
An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. “No female shall
appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be
escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club”.
The following important amendment however is to be considered here: “The
provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90
pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses.”
In Kingsville, Texas there is a law against two pigs having sex on the
city’s airport property.
Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn
during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty
Corner, New Jersey law.
In Los Angeles, California, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with
a leather belt or strap, but the belt can’t be wider than 2 inches, unless
he has his wife’s consent to beat her with a wider strap. Consent should be
given prior to the event, as is carefully stipulated. [Not to be confused
with the myth about “rule of thumb”‘s origin -psl]
In Maryville, Missouri, women are prohibited from wearing corsets because
“The privilege of admiring the curvaceous, unencumbered body of a young
woman should not be denied to the normal, red-blooded American male.”
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s
permission.
In Nevada sex without a condom is considered illegal.
An ordinance in Newcastle, Wyoming, specifically bans couples from having
sex while standing inside a store’s walk-in meat freezer!
In Norfolk, Virginia, a woman can’t go out without wearing a corset. (There
was a civil-service job-for men only-called a corset inspector.)
In Oblong, Illinois, it’s punishable by law to make love while hunting or
fishing on your wedding day.
In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while
standing in front of a man’s picture.
In hotels in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, every room is required to have twin
beds. And the beds must always be a minimum of two feet apart when a couple
rents a room for only one night. And it’s illegal to make love on the floor
between the beds!
A Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man
while riding in an ambulance. In addition to normal charges, the woman’s
name will be published in the local newspaper. The man does not receive any
punishment.
Utah state legislation outlaws all sex with anyone but your spouse. Next to
that adultery, oral and anal sex, masturbation are considered sodomy and can
lead to imprisonment. Sex with an animal – unless performed for profit –
however is NOT considered sodomy. Polygamy – provided only the missionary
position has been applied – is only a misdemeanor.
In Ventura County, California cats and dogs are not allowed to have sex
without a permit.
The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the
missionary-style position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.
In Willowdale, Oregon no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In the state of Washington there is a law against having sex with a virgin
under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night).
—anon—
And in a similar manner:
1. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the
animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is
punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

2. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is
prohibited from looking directly at them during theexamination. He may only
see their reflection in a mirror.

3. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also
applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with
a brick or piece of wood at all times.

4. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

5. There are men in Guam whose full-time job is to travel the countryside
and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for
the first time… Reason: under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for
virgins to marry. (Let’s just think for a m! inute; is there any job
anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)

6. In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous
husband, but may only do so with her bare hands.!!  The husband’s lover, on
the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. (Ah! Justice!)

7. Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England – but only in tropical
fish stores. (But of course!)

8. In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the
first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act.
(Makes one shudder at the thought.)

9. In Santa Cruz, Bolivia, it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman
and her daughter at the same time. (I presume this was a big enough Problem
that they had to pass this law?)

10. In Maryland, it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with
one exception: prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only
“in places where alcoholic bev! erages are sold for consumption on the
premises.”

?
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Van: Jim Hadey [mailto:jimhadey3@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 2:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of
anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I
doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws
still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still
on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they
are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and
Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many
people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing
your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida
you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because
of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may
have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you
private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or
whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.
If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I
strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from
Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can! get shot for nothing.  There
are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and ! killers that are VERY
violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys
will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun
of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.
Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car
jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about
seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely
to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out
for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one
joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY
heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL.
You can be arrested just for that.
I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken
to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a
foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight
screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we
can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because
we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:16:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary,

Who is there to deal with it but itself? I just put it out. What does it matter? There’s nothing wrong with the ego. Ego is great! Who is there to deal with it? Your question makes no sense to me. Sorry!

with love

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Maryditton@aol.com [mailto:Maryditton@aol.com]
Sent: 23 September 2004 04:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Hey Nick,
How do you deal with your own ego.  Would you mind sharing?
Peace,
Mary

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..Nick
Date: September 23, 2004 at 4:14:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 22 September 2004 19:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do
sessions..Nick

Nick,

I’m glad that you have found a foolproof method of
getting through tough times- a lot of us, however,
have not, and thus seeking and exploring new or
alternative medicines/pathways would seem a necessary
step in our own personal evolution and development.
For me, being addicted to junk was like being a record
stuck in a groove, skipping repeatedly, producing
nothing and going nowhere.  What helped me,
personally, to move beyond this, was a mixture of more
positive ‘alternative’ lifestyle and personal
self-exploration.

I think we might be forgetting something- what works
for one person might not work for another.  Life is so
subjective that it’s simply not wise to dismiss
everything ‘spiritual’ cuz you might not have had a
good experience with it.  One (wo)man’s treasure is
another’s refuse…One (wo)man’s strength is another’s
Achilles heel.  I say- whatever works, GO WITH IT!!

regards,
Julie

Hi Ms Iboga,

I have no problem with anyone following as many spiritual paths as they
like. Therapy neither. I’ve done plenty. If you need spirituality to move
you from drugs, that’s totally fine with me. If you’re drawn to something
you should trust that. I’m merely pointing out that, at the end of the day,
you are going to have to move to a place where you accept yourself utterly
and totally in the moment with no provisos, or the need to follow any paths,
with no pretensions or labels to hide beneath. Whilst spiritual practice and
belief is often a part of the drive towards individuation, this is merely a
temporary thing. And what starts as a needed venture in one’s life often
becomes simply a massive re-identification, with the ego taking on all sorts
of foolish roles as “spirit guide” or “spiritual master.” This stuff is
nonsense and I will take the opportunity to confront it, if I feel someone’s
ready to be confronted. To allow yourself to “become” a spiritualist is to
utterly MISS the astounding reality of who you actually are! It is to
overlook of enormity of just what is. Use it while you need it and keep
checking in.

with love

Nick

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 September 2004 05:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal
screamers do sessions..

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see
people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge,
semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset
me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that
stage already?

Oh, I’ve been a devotee of plenty of spiritual
foolishness in my time! How
else to get to see through it? Basically, most
spiritual ideas I’ve ever
known or followed revolved around two key concepts:

1) some things are more sacred than others
2) there is a pathway to liberation

Both are utter nonsense, but you usually have to
travel the pathways a bit
to see they actually lead nowhere (and not even
there!)

with love

Nick

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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 23, 2004 at 12:28:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy,
I’m on my first week of chanting a mantra.  I was never open to the concept before even though I study ayurveda.  I’ve been chanting a mantra that is supposed to clear all obstacles from the mind:  Om Gum Gana Pata Yei Namaha.  I chanted it for my teacher’s wife and she corrected my pronounciation and rhythm and it feels so much easier off the tongue.  My teacher told me that the key to finding a good mantra is just to try different ones until you find one that makes you feel good.  I’m experimenting but I like it – feels good to me, like I’m tuning myself up.  I say give it a go – and if you do let me know your experience.
Peace,
Mary

If you want to try mine, I’ll chant it for you so you know how it’s supposed to sound  (917-385-8173)

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 23, 2004 at 12:11:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oops Nick,
I just read your post to me so chuck out the question about your ego – I take it you don’t have the limited sense of self.  I haven’t quite digested your post but there are some beauties in there ESPECIALLY if you are doing life better with all that realization.  As for me, I’d like to know how these insights change what your life is about – that would help!
Peace,
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 11:11:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick,
How do you deal with your own ego.  Would you mind sharing?
Peace,
Mary

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: September 22, 2004 at 10:33:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou m,
Nice to know how things are progressing.
Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello

hey all. been a bit out of the loop on list and its probably way to late to try and catch up but I wanted to say a quick hello.
Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the funniest part is I don’t care. Wait… I should probably explain. I got into dope pretty young and my life was unmanageable almost immediately. I was homeless on the streets of the lower east side by the time I was 17 years old. I remember always wishing that I could do dope successfully which I interpreted at the time to mean that I could hold down a job and function enough to shoot dope the way I wanted to.
Then  I got on methadone for the second time at 20 and in a pretty short period of time I was able to go back and finish school and get a good job and still fuck around more often than not, and of course lie to everyone I got close to. Surprisingly enough, after close to 10 years of getting what I wished for, the whole thing was a big let down and left me almost suicidal.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is I’ve been on both ends but the past 5 years I have been okay financially. I mean my credit is for shit and I owe the IRS a ton and I wasn’t exactly saving, but cash on hand was never a problem.
Since my session two months ago I have come home to lose my job, face eviction if I don’t move by next week, no money at all after not being paid in two months, and whats amazing is I’m still the happiest I think I’ve ever been. I really feel now that all of this that is happening is supposed to happen. A brand new beginning and not nearly the way I could have ever imagined it being. But I hated my life, so to turn around and watch it burn is in a strange way, no matter how uncomfortable it might be sometimes, the best thing that ever could have happened.
My cell phone was shut off today which sucks,  but I start a new job (temporary till I get out of NY) on Monday and it’ll be on soon enough. It bothers me how dependent I am on it but I feel so disconnected without it.
I’d better go but thanks to all on the list. It made my journey so much easier knowing that there were all these wonderful people from all over keeping a good thought.
And its so exciting to watch  this list evolve the way it has in the past 4 months.

Spending the night out of the city so I will be in touch with anyone who I usually call.
Love -M.
From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 9:49:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

Yea, they are old laws still on the books.  But they are no longer enforced.  You said your were wrong about the laws in FL.  No big deal, you live in another country, how are you to know which are enforced and which are not.  All the laws that you sent are no longer enforced.  I can see why you were scared.  They would scare me too.

But you got friends on the forum that will help you out.  Like Callie said you can do it without fear of arrest.   If you have any questions you can write to any of us, we will all be glad to help you.  I think you would like Ft. Lauderdale and Hollywood Beach (they are right next to each other) and you would like the Keys, Key Largo is my favorite.  Key West is a strange place but pretty safe and there is a lot to do.  Try VERY hard to keep out of Miami, the crime rate is high.  And they prey on tourists (try to rob them because they know they will not come back for the trial and they will have to let them go).  You will LOVE the nice clear water, wear sun screen, you can get a bad sun burn and not know it until it is too late. However, at this time of year it is not too bad.

Have Fun,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Jim, maybe I was wrong about FL. but hey look starge thing are happening everywhere,who thought about this?
No man is allowed to make love to his wife with the smell of garlic, onions, or sardines on his breath in Alexandria, Minnesota. If his wife so requests, law mandates that he must brush his teeth.
Warn your hubby that after lovemaking in Ames, Iowa, he isn’t allowed to take more than three gulps of beer while lying in bed with you-or holding you in his arms.
Bozeman, Montana, has a law that bans all sexual activity between members of the opposite sex in the front yard of a home after sundown-if they’re nude. (Apparently, if you wear socks, you’re safe from the law!)
During lunch breaks in Carlsbad, New Mexico no couple should engage in a sexual act while parked in their vehicle, unless their car has curtains.
In Cleveland, Ohio women are not allowed to wear patent-leather shoes.
Clinton, Oklahoma has a law against masturbating while watching two people having sex in a car.
It’s safe to make love while parked in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Police officers aren’t allowed to walk up and knock on the window. Any suspicious officer who thinks that sex is taking place must drive up from behind, honk his horn three times and wait approximately two minutes before getting out of his car to investigate. [Hmmm… okay, there’s one place with a law that makes sense… -psl]
In Connorsville, Wisconsin no man shall shoot off a gun while his female partner is having a sexual orgasm.
In Detroit, couples are not allowed to make love in an automobile unless the act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
A law in Fairbanks, Alaska does not allow moose to have sex on city streets.
In Florida it is illegal for single, divorced, or widowed women to parachute on Sunday afternoons.
In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania it is illegal to have sex with a truck driver inside a toll booth.
The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.
Another law in Helena, Montana, mandates that a woman can’t dance on a table in a saloon or bar unless she has on at least three pounds, two ounces of clothing.
A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master, not mister, when addressed by their female counterparts.
An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. “No female shall appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club”.
The following important amendment however is to be considered here: “The provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90 pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses.”
In Kingsville, Texas there is a law against two pigs having sex on the city’s airport property.
Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty Corner, New Jersey law.
In Los Angeles, California, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with a leather belt or strap, but the belt can’t be wider than 2 inches, unless he has his wife’s consent to beat her with a wider strap. Consent should be given prior to the event, as is carefully stipulated. [Not to be confused with the myth about “rule of thumb”‘s origin -psl]
In Maryville, Missouri, women are prohibited from wearing corsets because “The privilege of admiring the curvaceous, unencumbered body of a young woman should not be denied to the normal, red-blooded American male.”
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.
In Nevada sex without a condom is considered illegal.
An ordinance in Newcastle, Wyoming, specifically bans couples from having sex while standing inside a store’s walk-in meat freezer!
In Norfolk, Virginia, a woman can’t go out without wearing a corset. (There was a civil-service job-for men only-called a corset inspector.)
In Oblong, Illinois, it’s punishable by law to make love while hunting or fishing on your wedding day.
In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man’s picture.
In hotels in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, every room is required to have twin beds. And the beds must always be a minimum of two feet apart when a couple rents a room for only one night. And it’s illegal to make love on the floor between the beds!
A Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man while riding in an ambulance. In addition to normal charges, the woman’s name will be published in the local newspaper. The man does not receive any punishment.
Utah state legislation outlaws all sex with anyone but your spouse. Next to that adultery, oral and anal sex, masturbation are considered sodomy and can lead to imprisonment. Sex with an animal – unless performed for profit – however is NOT considered sodomy. Polygamy – provided only the missionary position has been applied – is only a misdemeanor.
In Ventura County, California cats and dogs are not allowed to have sex without a permit.
The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the missionary-style position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.
In Willowdale, Oregon no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In the state of Washington there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night).
—anon—
And in a similar manner:
1. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

2. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is prohibited from looking directly at them during theexamination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

3. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with a brick or piece of wood at all times.

4. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

5. There are men in Guam whose full-time job is to travel the countryside and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for the first time… Reason: under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for virgins to marry. (Let’s just think for a minute; is there any job anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)

6. In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands.!!  The husband’s lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. (Ah! Justice!)

7. Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England – but only in tropical fish stores. (But of course!)

8. In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act. (Makes one shudder at the thought.)

9. In Santa Cruz, Bolivia, it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman and her daughter at the same time. (I presume this was a big enough Problem that they had to pass this law?)

10. In Maryland, it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with one exception: prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only “in places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises.”

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Van: Jim Hadey [mailto:jimhadey3@yahoo.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 2:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.  There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and ! killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:55:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known
it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the
funniest part is I don’t care.<

As long as yer happy Mark.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello

hey all. been a bit out of the loop on list and its probably way to late to
try and catch up but I wanted to say a quick hello.
Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known
it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the
funniest part is I don’t care. Wait… I should probably explain. I got into
dope pretty young and my life was unmanageable almost immediately. I was
homeless on the streets of the lower east side by the time I was 17 years
old. I remember always wishing that I could do dope successfully which I
interpreted at the time to mean that I could hold down a job and function
enough to shoot dope the way I wanted to.
Then  I got on methadone for the second time at 20 and in a pretty short
period of time I was able to go back and finish school and get a good job
and still fuck around more often than not, and of course lie to everyone I
got close to. Surprisingly enough, after close to 10 years of getting what I
wished for, the whole thing was a big let down and left me almost suicidal.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is I’ve been on both ends but the past 5 years I
have been okay financially. I mean my credit is for shit and I owe the IRS a
ton and I wasn’t exactly saving, but cash on hand was never a problem.
Since my session two months ago I have come home to lose my job, face
eviction if I don’t move by next week, no money at all after not being paid
in two months, and whats amazing is I’m still the happiest I think I’ve ever
been. I really feel now that all of this that is happening is supposed to
happen. A brand new beginning and not nearly the way I could have ever
imagined it being. But I hated my life, so to turn around and watch it burn
is in a strange way, no matter how uncomfortable it might be sometimes, the
best thing that ever could have happened.
My cell phone was shut off today which sucks,  but I start a new job
(temporary till I get out of NY) on Monday and it’ll be on soon enough. It
bothers me how dependent I am on it but I feel so disconnected without it.
I’d better go but thanks to all on the list. It made my journey so much
easier knowing that there were all these wonderful people from all over
keeping a good thought.
And its so exciting to watch  this list evolve the way it has in the past 4
months.

Spending the night out of the city so I will be in touch with anyone who I
usually call.
Love -M.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
remainder snipped

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara…
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:58:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Derr…mine just said Sara Glatt, not her email address….then I realised
that’s coz I already have it….

Bloody short-term memory!

Thanks Howard 🙂
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara…

In a message dated 9/22/04 4:49:07 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

What’s your email address Sara?

Hi Hannah,

You can see everyone’s email address on the posts they make to the list.
Just open up anyone’s post and look at the address box at the top of the
email.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] private emails ending up on the list- apologies
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:42:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/22/04 5:14:57 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

First, apologies for my private email ending up on the
list- I certainly didn’t intend it to.  Embarassing,
to say the least.

Hi Julie,

I can’t tell personal email from that directed to this list.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:33:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey all. been a bit out of the loop on list and its probably way to late to try and catch up but I wanted to say a quick hello.
Its kinda funny but since my session two months ago my life as I’ve known it, or my former life if you will, has collapsed on top of me, and the funniest part is I don’t care. Wait… I should probably explain. I got into dope pretty young and my life was unmanageable almost immediately. I was homeless on the streets of the lower east side by the time I was 17 years old. I remember always wishing that I could do dope successfully which I interpreted at the time to mean that I could hold down a job and function enough to shoot dope the way I wanted to.
Then  I got on methadone for the second time at 20 and in a pretty short period of time I was able to go back and finish school and get a good job and still fuck around more often than not, and of course lie to everyone I got close to. Surprisingly enough, after close to 10 years of getting what I wished for, the whole thing was a big let down and left me almost suicidal.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is I’ve been on both ends but the past 5 years I have been okay financially. I mean my credit is for shit and I owe the IRS a ton and I wasn’t exactly saving, but cash on hand was never a problem.
Since my session two months ago I have come home to lose my job, face eviction if I don’t move by next week, no money at all after not being paid in two months, and whats amazing is I’m still the happiest I think I’ve ever been. I really feel now that all of this that is happening is supposed to happen. A brand new beginning and not nearly the way I could have ever imagined it being. But I hated my life, so to turn around and watch it burn is in a strange way, no matter how uncomfortable it might be sometimes, the best thing that ever could have happened.
My cell phone was shut off today which sucks,  but I start a new job (temporary till I get out of NY) on Monday and it’ll be on soon enough. It bothers me how dependent I am on it but I feel so disconnected without it.
I’d better go but thanks to all on the list. It made my journey so much easier knowing that there were all these wonderful people from all over keeping a good thought.
And its so exciting to watch  this list evolve the way it has in the past 4 months.

Spending the night out of the city so I will be in touch with anyone who I usually call.
Love -M.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

> Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
remainder snipped

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] private emails ending up on the list- apologies
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:29:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know how it happen Julie unless you hit reply.
Don’t be embarrassed, it happens to a lot of us.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara…
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:03:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/22/04 4:49:07 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

What’s your email address Sara?

Hi Hannah,

You can see everyone’s email address on the posts they make to the list.
Just open up anyone’s post and look at the address box at the top of the email.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] private emails ending up on the list- apologies
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:12:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

First, apologies for my private email ending up on the
list- I certainly didn’t intend it to.  Embarassing,
to say the least.

Second: Why did it happen?  I addressed it to one
email box ONLY, not to ibogaine@mindvox….

Once again, sorry,

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 6:11:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh yeah, and thanks Hannah and Sara.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
remainder snipped

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 6:09:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mouth wash with warm water and sea-salt will give you a quick recovery.<

Yeah, I have been. Definitely, but alas….
Please, all, no need to flood the list with more advice for tooth problems,
as I am pretty sure I have just about every treatment now ever thought of
for teeth rattling around in my head.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] under the influence

anyone know where exactly Eire is?

Ireland.

I’m with you on your tooth ache, I had them also pulled out,

Mouth wash with warm water and sea-salt will give you a quick recovery.

Be well,

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:55:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Eire (pronounced eery) is Southern Ireland…
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] under the influence

Hi all,
So. I picked up a few copied of Under the Influence- the
Disinformation
Guide to Drugs, in which a couple of our DrugWar subscribers are published
and just have to say, I’m very excited, thrilled, and awed at just how
freakin’ cool this book is, if I don’t say so myself about a project I put
so much sweat, tears, pain and blood into.
It’s very cool looking, thick and heavy, 360 odd pages chock full of
the
most amazing articles ever complied between two cove…um, well, it’s got
some really amazingly informative and cool articles, how’s that?
Virgin Megastores asked Disinfo if they could print up on staff
t-shirts
for all their big-city stores (like NYC, Miami, Chicago, LA and SF, etc.-
sans anyone’s name, including mine, darn it), so their staffs will be
wearing shirts with the Virgin logo on the shoulder, “staff” along the
sleeve, and “Under the Influence” across their chests with the outta focus
Disinfo Devilhead logo which graves the cover of the book (which I must
say
looks really amazingly cool- yeah, My adjectives are not so inspired
today,
I admit) as well. This is about the coolest thing I’ve heard yet, other
than
for the fact that UTI is being released simultaneously in Great Britain,
Canada, and the US (as well as Eire, listed along with the GB
distribution-
anyone know where exactly Eire is? Isn’t it an island of sorts off the
coast
of Enland or something?).
If you live anywhere near the NYC area, we’re throwing a release party
on Oct. 21 (subscriber and contributor Jules Siegel’s b-day too btw, so be
sure to remember to wish him many happy more please, even though the bum
won’t be shelling out hard earned bread to buy a plane ticket to fly to
NYC
for the night- I know, the gall of it, but what can I do? I’m poor so
won’t
be buying him a ticket- so if anyone wants to contribute to the cause,
write
“Jules” in “Mexico” and see what happens.) I’d love to see as many of you
here in NYC as possible, so start your plans today. I’ll have more
definite
info soon- think “sex, drugs and rock n’ roll” type party, with go-go
dancers and dj’s and contributors and fun all present and accounted for.
Anyway, as you notice, I’m both excited and delirious, still battling
never-ending wars on…I mean, tooth problems, with a dry socket forming
where the wisdom tooth was yanked last week, necessitating lots of dru..I
mean, a visit to the dentist yet AGAIN today to get it packed with
medication. Dry Sockets SUCK major big time, if anyone here hasn’t yet had
the dubious pleasure of experiencing one. Don’t is my advice- it’s an
experience I’d like to say I’d gone to my grave never experiencing but
this
is time two for me, so I guess that’s out.
Hope everyone is having as warm and pleasant a day as a bunch of my
friends probably are.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara…
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:53:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What’s your email address Sara?  I’d like to find out how much it would cost to be treated by you?  Actually I think you told me before and I’ve just forgot!  I’m in the UK.

LOL Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Hanna,

Sorry for this mistake, I got the info. wrong, but not completely there are some very strange laws, I was just wondering if it is serious or just a joke.

It is good that my name isn’t “ISLAM”.;-)

It is illegal to kiss in public, in a sacred place like a church.but I guess Christ wouldn’t mind.

forget it,

Sara
Van: Hannah Clay [mailto:hannah.clay@ntlworld.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 22:27
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

“And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that”

What’s this Sara?  Can you explain please?  I can’t believe its illegal to kiss in public somewhere, well anywhere!

Lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:17:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

anyone know where exactly Eire is?

Ireland.

I’m with you on your tooth ache, I had them also pulled out,

Mouth wash with warm water and sea-salt will give you a quick recovery.

Be well,

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 5:09:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hanna,

Sorry for this mistake, I got the info. wrong, but not completely there are some very strange laws, I was just wondering if it is serious or just a joke.

It is good that my name isn’t “ISLAM”.;-)

It is illegal to kiss in public, in a sacred place like a church.but I guess Christ wouldn’t mind.

forget it,

Sara
Van: Hannah Clay [mailto:hannah.clay@ntlworld.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 22:27
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

“And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that”

What’s this Sara?  Can you explain please?  I can’t believe its illegal to kiss in public somewhere, well anywhere!

Lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] under the influence
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:49:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
So. I picked up a few copied of Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs, in which a couple of our DrugWar subscribers are published
and just have to say, I’m very excited, thrilled, and awed at just how
freakin’ cool this book is, if I don’t say so myself about a project I put
so much sweat, tears, pain and blood into.
It’s very cool looking, thick and heavy, 360 odd pages chock full of the
most amazing articles ever complied between two cove…um, well, it’s got
some really amazingly informative and cool articles, how’s that?
Virgin Megastores asked Disinfo if they could print up on staff t-shirts
for all their big-city stores (like NYC, Miami, Chicago, LA and SF, etc.-
sans anyone’s name, including mine, darn it), so their staffs will be
wearing shirts with the Virgin logo on the shoulder, “staff” along the
sleeve, and “Under the Influence” across their chests with the outta focus
Disinfo Devilhead logo which graves the cover of the book (which I must say
looks really amazingly cool- yeah, My adjectives are not so inspired today,
I admit) as well. This is about the coolest thing I’ve heard yet, other than
for the fact that UTI is being released simultaneously in Great Britain,
Canada, and the US (as well as Eire, listed along with the GB distribution-
anyone know where exactly Eire is? Isn’t it an island of sorts off the coast
of Enland or something?).
If you live anywhere near the NYC area, we’re throwing a release party
on Oct. 21 (subscriber and contributor Jules Siegel’s b-day too btw, so be
sure to remember to wish him many happy more please, even though the bum
won’t be shelling out hard earned bread to buy a plane ticket to fly to NYC
for the night- I know, the gall of it, but what can I do? I’m poor so won’t
be buying him a ticket- so if anyone wants to contribute to the cause, write
“Jules” in “Mexico” and see what happens.) I’d love to see as many of you
here in NYC as possible, so start your plans today. I’ll have more definite
info soon- think “sex, drugs and rock n’ roll” type party, with go-go
dancers and dj’s and contributors and fun all present and accounted for.
Anyway, as you notice, I’m both excited and delirious, still battling
never-ending wars on…I mean, tooth problems, with a dry socket forming
where the wisdom tooth was yanked last week, necessitating lots of dru..I
mean, a visit to the dentist yet AGAIN today to get it packed with
medication. Dry Sockets SUCK major big time, if anyone here hasn’t yet had
the dubious pleasure of experiencing one. Don’t is my advice- it’s an
experience I’d like to say I’d gone to my grave never experiencing but this
is time two for me, so I guess that’s out.
Hope everyone is having as warm and pleasant a day as a bunch of my
friends probably are.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:27:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that”

What’s this Sara?  Can you explain please?  I can’t believe its illegal to kiss in public somewhere, well anywhere!

Lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..Nick
Date: September 22, 2004 at 2:43:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,

I’m glad that you have found a foolproof method of
getting through tough times- a lot of us, however,
have not, and thus seeking and exploring new or
alternative medicines/pathways would seem a necessary
step in our own personal evolution and development.
For me, being addicted to junk was like being a record
stuck in a groove, skipping repeatedly, producing
nothing and going nowhere.  What helped me,
personally, to move beyond this, was a mixture of more
positive ‘alternative’ lifestyle and personal
self-exploration.

I think we might be forgetting something- what works
for one person might not work for another.  Life is so
subjective that it’s simply not wise to dismiss
everything ‘spiritual’ cuz you might not have had a
good experience with it.  One (wo)man’s treasure is
another’s refuse…One (wo)man’s strength is another’s
Achilles heel.  I say- whatever works, GO WITH IT!!

regards,
Julie

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 September 2004 05:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal
screamers do sessions..

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see
people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge,
semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset
me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that
stage already?

Oh, I’ve been a devotee of plenty of spiritual
foolishness in my time! How
else to get to see through it? Basically, most
spiritual ideas I’ve ever
known or followed revolved around two key concepts:

1) some things are more sacred than others
2) there is a pathway to liberation

Both are utter nonsense, but you usually have to
travel the pathways a bit
to see they actually lead nowhere (and not even
there!)

with love

Nick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 22, 2004 at 2:19:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 22 September 2004 05:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that stage already?

Oh, I’ve been a devotee of plenty of spiritual foolishness in my time! How
else to get to see through it? Basically, most spiritual ideas I’ve ever
known or followed revolved around two key concepts:

1) some things are more sacred than others
2) there is a pathway to liberation

Both are utter nonsense, but you usually have to travel the pathways a bit
to see they actually lead nowhere (and not even there!)

with love

Nick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 2:16:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

OK, then for sure, chant away. Personally, I think Tachyon beads are great for speeding up the body’s own repair processes.

with love

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 22 September 2004 12:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Nick, I appreciate what you are saying but I think you have mistaken my reason for seeking this out. I have a broken bone in my wrist that will not heal (left navicular) and back problems that I am being treated with Methadone for pain for. Yea I used both situations to get drugs but I still will have pain that I have to deal with like every one else after the drugs are gone. I’m looking for rational alternatives to help deal with real pain issues. I agree with you about ego and self. My ego has been my down fall quite often. Most of the time. Hell every time I have real problems ego rules me into idiocy. I try to be self aware and rational i.e.. RBT, RET sometimes it works. I still go through periods of cognitive dissonance. I am hoping Ibogaine will put some clarity to my self talks. Let me know whats real and whats important.             Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off List
Date: September 22, 2004 at 1:28:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gonna miss you Lee! Hope things settle down for you!
Hugs!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 1:26:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, Those are GREAT! Thanks!
Callie

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:38:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

I actually don’t know too much about it, but how about
this:  I’ll email you a music therapist’s email
address, and you can contact her directly.

luv Julie

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Julie, just got back on line this morn’ again. I am
very interested in what
you are talking about with music therapy. I’ve been
a musician since I was a
kid. Got in my first paying band when I was 12. Did
it for a living for a while.
Music is the only thing I can truly lose myself in
and forget about problems
for a while. Of course back in the day it was just
another way to get high and
manipulate people. I’ve worked thru all of that now.
I just play and enjoy
it. Money or no money. Tell me more. I’ll be
checking this out on my own too. I
realize that what you are talking about is different
from performing and
creating. Its still music tho right? Are there
certain notes for certain organs or
problem area’s? I’ll be checking back. I’m pretty
busy today.
Randy

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Nick
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:36:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Nick,

Most entrainment therapy I have read about is NOT for
emotional or psychological woes; it is for cancerous
tumorous, or physical organ disorders.  Usually, in
these cases, the EGO is NOT involved.

From what I have seen, music therapy is only
therapeutical and beneficial for the short time spent
in the practitioners office/work space; it’s effects
are not like Ibogaine- it may not last for a month,
even a week, for that matter.

Julie
— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun
[mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 22 September 2004 02:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing
through sound/frequency-
Randy

Yes please I am very interested in more info.
Thankyou.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through
sound/frequency- Randy

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by
a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the
theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a
healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be
translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it
vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly
“off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ
can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed,
by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it
for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished
with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by
blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I
know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to
believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music
therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I
could
ask her for more info.

Yes, I’ve just learned about this great healing
technique and it’s just
going to take all my problems away! I would invite
anyone reading to see
just how easily they give their power away by
believing in this stuff. I
have nothing against sound therapy, it’s fine, but
to commence from the
position “There is something wrong with me and I
need healing” is to
precisely hijack any healing process. All that can
happen from following the
technique is a change in belief to “There is nothing
wrong with me.” That is
the best possible outcome.

It dialogues something like this, ego – self:

– “I just want something to take me away from
myself”
– “There isn’t anything, this is who you are, who
you always were and who
you always will be”
– “But I don’t want to accept that. I’m not
listening. I’ve got my fingers
in my ears. I need healing. I need healing”

The action of interrupting the ego’s desire for
healing and confronting it
with the truth that there is absolutely no
possibility of escape from itself
immediately begins to bring up all the feelings that
it has been
suppressing, the feelings that, were they felt,
would actually allow healing
to take place. But the ego is not ready to do this.
Rather than accept the
limitations of its existence it is condemned to
forever project the unwanted
feelings outwards and seek “healing” in some
technique or practice. It can’t
work, but the ego refuses to see this. Were it to
simply sit in the feelings
that are underneath the desire for healing then
liberation would take place.

The best “healing techniques,” from the ego’s point
of view, are those which
make it feel better temporarily, that give it a few
hours or days of clarity
or pain release. It then develops the belief that to
simply keep on
performing the practice will keep it in this
relatively pain free state or
somehow “reprogram it” to not feel the bad feelings
anymore. Pure bullshit,
of course, but the ego will believe anything rather
than believe it can’t
escape from itself.

with love

Nick

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mention of ibogaine on another list
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:19:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Climbingthegreatbluecliffs
Yesterday, 01:35 AM

Drug abuse, and addictive behaviors are definitely a problem.

ibogaine is a indole alkaloid isolated, most commonly, from the tabernanthe iboga shrub. Used ritually in Africa for religious purposes for an unknown amount of time, it has also found a place in psychotherapy and addiction treatment. Due to its hallucinogenic effects it is a schedule I substance in the USA. In the mid nineties trials were terminated, the subject of which was the use of ibogaine and its non-hallucinogenic analog 18-MC in the treatment of drug addiction. One might think this was because of its ineffectiveness, but countless reports of unprecedented success in treating all sorts of addiction, with just one application are available. Its easy to imagine what it, and/or 18-MC could add to a treatment program. The trials were terminated, it seems, chiefly because it was perpendicular to the status quo. Once you admit this hallucinogenic has psychotherapeutic value, you have to admit that the full range of them do. In fact LSD and psilocybin both were originally used in psychotherapy, and were popularized by Harvard University psychology teachers. Quickly they became a part of the counter culture, ‘expanding your mind’ was definitely bad for those benefiting from minds being just the way they are. In a now effective attempt at social engineering, following the court decision on the 1937 marihuana tax act, the CSA was passed, creating the present federal scheduling system.

In my opinion the government’s policy on illicit psychoactives is ripe with flaws, lies and half-truths. The scheduling of marijuana and most hallucinogenic as  schedule I, despite their medical value. In fact many of these scheduled substances should be all the way down to [url=] http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/la…5.shtml] schedule V://http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives…tml] schedule V. Check out the  ONDCP’s MJ fact sheet.
-cannaboids do not stimulate the production of dopamine (although the user might do so by their own perceptions)
-marijuana does not cause the heart rate to double, that is unless someone is robbing you at gun point
-marijuana stays in the system for up to 60 days. Is it any wonder it is ‘involved’ in traffic accidents?
-marijuana does not make you a delinquent, but many delinquents use marijuana
-not everyone who uses psychoactives (licit and illicit) needs treatment
Also look  here (check out numbers 4 and 8 at the bottom too).
The  DEA’s version is even betterŠ
-the amount of carcinogens used in their figures is often based off those in leaves vs. those in the female flowers, but irregardless making available vaporizers and cheap high quality marijuana would lessen the cancer causing potential
-its highly unlikely marijuana causes impaired brain or muscle function in adults.
-legalizing marijuana would allow the smoke to be filtered, thus reducing carcinogen/tar content
-people arrested for MJ use, or caught by ‘brainwashed’ parents who don’t actually have a drug problem contribute an enormous amount to the people receiving/who received treatment for MJ use.
-[url=http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/marijim.html] reviewing the t-cell claim[\url]
-marijuana ‘contributes’ to crime, if at all, because its illegal

But why all this? Its simple really, originally it was to galvanize support against the counter culture as earlier drug laws were designed to galvanize support for racism.

Marijuana presently is possibly much more dangerous than it would be if legal. Lack of standards and improper and dangerous techniques of production, drying and storage can produce everything from high concentrations of pesticides to mold and mildew with a variety of negative effects, all due almost entirely to the current policy of criminalization.

Ecstasy, cocaine and herion bought illegally have all sorts of dangerous. Varied and unknown quantities, dangerous adulterants and ignorance of the user produce most of them. Meth is in the same boat, but contains further risks from improper manufacture.

Criminalization provides a multi-billion dollar market for criminals (and potentially terrorists) to deal in. Money for guns, guns to get money. People end up dead, and you have a murder rate several times higher than most western and northern European nations. Another interesting side effect seems to be the call for gun control. Since there is no worry about communists stock piling arms anymore something else had to be though up.

With the prices found in the black market, its no wonder we experience approx 36 billion in drug related crime every year. That price tag comes with 40+ billion spent in enforcement annually.

Than there is prison overcrowding, and corruption, as went on in Mena, AR in the eighties and early nineties.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 22, 2004 at 10:58:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim, maybe I was wrong about FL. but hey look starge thing are happening everywhere,who thought about this?
No man is allowed to make love to his wife with the smell of garlic, onions, or sardines on his breath in Alexandria, Minnesota. If his wife so requests, law mandates that he must brush his teeth.
Warn your hubby that after lovemaking in Ames, Iowa, he isn’t allowed to take more than three gulps of beer while lying in bed with you-or holding you in his arms.
Bozeman, Montana, has a law that bans all sexual activity between members of the opposite sex in the front yard of a home after sundown-if they’re nude. (Apparently, if you wear socks, you’re safe from the law!)
During lunch breaks in Carlsbad, New Mexico no couple should engage in a sexual act while parked in their vehicle, unless their car has curtains.
In Cleveland, Ohio women are not allowed to wear patent-leather shoes.
Clinton, Oklahoma has a law against masturbating while watching two people having sex in a car.
It’s safe to make love while parked in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Police officers aren’t allowed to walk up and knock on the window. Any suspicious officer who thinks that sex is taking place must drive up from behind, honk his horn three times and wait approximately two minutes before getting out of his car to investigate. [Hmmm… okay, there’s one place with a law that makes sense… -psl]
In Connorsville, Wisconsin no man shall shoot off a gun while his female partner is having a sexual orgasm.
In Detroit, couples are not allowed to make love in an automobile unless the act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
A law in Fairbanks, Alaska does not allow moose to have sex on city streets.
In Florida it is illegal for single, divorced, or widowed women to parachute on Sunday afternoons.
In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania it is illegal to have sex with a truck driver inside a toll booth.
The owner of every hotel in Hastings, Nebraska, is required to provide each guest with a clean and pressed nightshirt. No couple, even if they are married, may sleep together in the nude. Nor may they have sex unless they are wearing one of these clean, white cotton nightshirts.
Another law in Helena, Montana, mandates that a woman can’t dance on a table in a saloon or bar unless she has on at least three pounds, two ounces of clothing.
A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master, not mister, when addressed by their female counterparts.
An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. “No female shall appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club”.
The following important amendment however is to be considered here: “The provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90 pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses.”
In Kingsville, Texas there is a law against two pigs having sex on the city’s airport property.
Any couple making out inside a vehicle, and accidentally sounding the horn during their lustful act, may be taken to jail according to a Liberty Corner, New Jersey law.
In Los Angeles, California, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with a leather belt or strap, but the belt can’t be wider than 2 inches, unless he has his wife’s consent to beat her with a wider strap. Consent should be given prior to the event, as is carefully stipulated. [Not to be confused with the myth about “rule of thumb”‘s origin -psl]
In Maryville, Missouri, women are prohibited from wearing corsets because “The privilege of admiring the curvaceous, unencumbered body of a young woman should not be denied to the normal, red-blooded American male.”
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.
In Nevada sex without a condom is considered illegal.
An ordinance in Newcastle, Wyoming, specifically bans couples from having sex while standing inside a store’s walk-in meat freezer!
In Norfolk, Virginia, a woman can’t go out without wearing a corset. (There was a civil-service job-for men only-called a corset inspector.)
In Oblong, Illinois, it’s punishable by law to make love while hunting or fishing on your wedding day.
In Oxford, Ohio, it’s illegal for a woman to strip off her clothing while standing in front of a man’s picture.
In hotels in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, every room is required to have twin beds. And the beds must always be a minimum of two feet apart when a couple rents a room for only one night. And it’s illegal to make love on the floor between the beds!
A Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man while riding in an ambulance. In addition to normal charges, the woman’s name will be published in the local newspaper. The man does not receive any punishment.
Utah state legislation outlaws all sex with anyone but your spouse. Next to that adultery, oral and anal sex, masturbation are considered sodomy and can lead to imprisonment. Sex with an animal – unless performed for profit – however is NOT considered sodomy. Polygamy – provided only the missionary position has been applied – is only a misdemeanor.
In Ventura County, California cats and dogs are not allowed to have sex without a permit.
The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the missionary-style position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.
In Willowdale, Oregon no man may curse while having sex with his wife.
In the state of Washington there is a law against having sex with a virgin under any circumstances. (Including the wedding night).
—anon—
And in a similar manner:
1. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

2. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is prohibited from looking directly at them during theexamination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

3. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with a brick or piece of wood at all times.

4. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

5. There are men in Guam whose full-time job is to travel the countryside and deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for the first time… Reason: under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for virgins to marry. (Let’s just think for a minute; is there any job anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)

6. In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands.!!  The husband’s lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. (Ah! Justice!)

7. Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England – but only in tropical fish stores. (But of course!)

8. In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act. (Makes one shudder at the thought.)

9. In Santa Cruz, Bolivia, it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman and her daughter at the same time. (I presume this was a big enough Problem that they had to pass this law?)

10. In Maryland, it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with one exception: prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only “in places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises.”

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Van: Jim Hadey [mailto:jimhadey3@yahoo.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 september 2004 2:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.  There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and ! killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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vote.yahoo.com – Register online to vote today!

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Off List
Date: September 22, 2004 at 10:34:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Just to let you know I am going to stay off the list for a while. Too much excitement for me. Need to refocus a bit on other things.
If anyone (posting or not) wants to communicate with me I invite you to contact me off the list on my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk. You will find me open to discussing anything.
All the best.
Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: paul parisi <paulparisi@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 22, 2004 at 8:43:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

slowone@hush.ai wrote:

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg
>
>Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the
>group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump
>onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that stage already?

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hi, this is the first time i have written regarding ibogaine. I have been getting mail on the subject for a long time. I was heavily researchig it about a year ago while trying to recover from a herion/crack addiction. I have now been clean for about 10 months. thank GOD for bubrenorphine. Lifesaveing but almost as expensive as haveing a regular habit. Insurance does’nt cover it. 1000.00 a month. anyways, enough about all this garbage I dont know where you are from but, in connecticut I just cant find any groups or ibogaine anywhere. It isnt legal here yet. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that all does exsist  here but, secretly.
I truely feel through all my research that through ibogaine I wouldnt need my meds anymore. I would also give anything for the spirituality part that goes along with it. I have had some severe trauma as most of us have that I know could be healed. By the way you can call me jen I am 32 years old.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 7:54:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, I appreciate what you are saying but I think you have mistaken my reason for seeking this out. I have a broken bone in my wrist that will not heal (left navicular) and back problems that I am being treated with Methadone for pain for. Yea I used both situations to get drugs but I still will have pain that I have to deal with like every one else after the drugs are gone. I’m looking for rational alternatives to help deal with real pain issues. I agree with you about ego and self. My ego has been my down fall quite often. Most of the time. Hell every time I have real problems ego rules me into idiocy. I try to be self aware and rational i.e.. RBT, RET sometimes it works. I still go through periods of cognitive dissonance. I am hoping Ibogaine will put some clarity to my self talks. Let me know whats real and whats important.             Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 7:24:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, just got back on line this morn’ again. I am very interested in what you are talking about with music therapy. I’ve been a musician since I was a kid. Got in my first paying band when I was 12. Did it for a living for a while. Music is the only thing I can truly lose myself in and forget about problems for a while. Of course back in the day it was just another way to get high and manipulate people. I’ve worked thru all of that now. I just play and enjoy it. Money or no money. Tell me more. I’ll be checking this out on my own too. I realize that what you are talking about is different from performing and creating. Its still music tho right? Are there certain notes for certain organs or problem area’s? I’ll be checking back. I’m pretty busy today.                Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Use for non addiction interruption
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:52:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,

I hope nobody minds if I put forward an observation on ibogaine use. If I piss someone off for posting so much on these things please try and ignore and move on to the posts that do interest you. I just feel its important to get some more information out to put some things into perspectiv that I have already posted.

Taking into account the dangers associated with ibogaine use I would suggest for anyone considering using ibogaine for purely psycho spiritual use (who satisfies the safety protocol) and not for addiction interruption to begin at low doses.

The advantages I see in this are:

1. The body in my view acclimatises to the presence of ibogaine. Hence the repeated use at low doses allows the body to adjust to its presence and not go into major reaction when a large dose is introduced.

2. One gets a proper feel for ones one dose level if one considers undergoing a full session.

3. Low dose sessions can begin the ground work of cleansing the mind of a lot of garbage by releasing a lot of repressed material due to the tendency to repress thoughts, memories which in our daily life threaten us. Eg. when we see someone behave in a way that reveals their character in a way that reminds us of something that occured in the past we want to forget, we block out what we are seeing. A low dose session can open up that blockage

4. We can get some guidance/insight.

5. The safety factor is enhanced. I would not go for a dose greater than 6mg/Kg – perhaps a little less.

However some form of minimal interference guidance & support in the initial use is a good thing. It should never be taken alone.

By the way there is an interesting book which covers the area of low dose ibogaine therapy and its readable online:

The Secret Chief

Conversations with a pioneer of the underground psychedelic therapy movement
By Myron Stolaroff
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/sctoc.html

All the best to everyone.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:25:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
If I am reading you right what you are saying is that instead of accepting where we are at we can jump on the bandwagon of seeking healing and use that as a kind of anesthetic to our pain.
I would go along with that.
I did a lot of primal therapy – years – I was addicted. Yet when I stopped going to group and individual sessions my problems where still with me.
I think it kind of released a feel good factor after the session which I lived off.
On the positive side I think it did educate me a lot on interactions with others, process at work within myself etc.
Best to you,
Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
> Sent: 22 September 2004 02:45
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency-
> Randy
>
>
> Yes please I am very interested in more info. Thankyou.
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Ms Iboga”
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
>
>
> > Randy,
> >
> > There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
> > health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
> > process called Entrainment. Basically, the theory is
> > this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
> > vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
> > into a ‘pitch’.
> >
> > When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
> > gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
> > According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
> > be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
> > directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
> > long periods of time. This can be accomplished with
> > voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
> > pre-recorded tones.
> >
> > Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
> > it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch! I know it
> > sounds like complete and utter malarky or
> > pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
> > at least HOPE) that there was something to it.
> >
> > Julie 🙂 BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
> > who healed my friend. If anyone’s interested, I could
> > ask her for more info.
> >
> >
>

Yes, I’ve just learned about this great healing technique and it’s just
going to take all my problems away! I would invite anyone reading to see
just how easily they give their power away by believing in this stuff. I
have nothing against sound therapy, it’s fine, but to commence from the
position “There is something wrong with me and I need healing” is to
precisely hijack any healing process. All that can happen from following the
technique is a change in belief to “There is nothing wrong with me.” That is
the best possible outcome.

It dialogues something like this, ego – self:

– “I just want something to take me away from myself”
– “There isn’t anything, this is who you are, who you always were and who
you always will be”
– “But I don’t want to accept that. I’m not listening. I’ve got my fingers
in my ears. I need healing. I need healing”

The action of interrupting the ego’s desire for healing and confronting it
with the truth that there is absolutely no possibility of escape from itself
immediately begins to bring up all the feelings that it has been
suppressing, the feelings that, were they felt, would actually allow healing
to take place. But the ego is not ready to do this. Rather than accept the
limitations of its existence it is condemned to forever project the unwanted
feelings outwards and seek “healing” in some technique or practice. It can’t
work, but the ego refuses to see this. Were it to simply sit in the feelings
that are underneath the desire for healing then liberation would take place.

The best “healing techniques,” from the ego’s point of view, are those which
make it feel better temporarily, that give it a few hours or days of clarity
or pain release. It then develops the belief that to simply keep on
performing the practice will keep it in this relatively pain free state or
somehow “reprogram it” to not feel the bad feelings anymore. Pure bullshit,
of course, but the ego will believe anything rather than believe it can’t
escape from itself.

with love

Nick

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Administration of ibogaine – A Discussion
Date: September 22, 2004 at 4:07:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,
I have the book. I am not sure what your point is. My only reason for putting forward these observations is for exploration. I am afraid to say I do not approach Eboga from the Bwiti standpoint. Which is not to say I discount it. I am simply taking it from my own personal experience. Clearly there are many aspects to Eboga and I doubt my take on it will agree on all points with theirs.
I will reread the chapter again and get back to you.
Thanks
Peace to you,
Lee

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Lee, have you read, “Breaking Open the head” by Daniel? It is illuminating to say the least and his first chapter is his recounting his Iboga experience. If you haven’t, please do yourself a favor and pick it up.

Regards,

Julian

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 22, 2004 at 3:28:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 22 September 2004 02:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency-
Randy

Yes please I am very interested in more info. Thankyou.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could
ask her for more info.

Yes, I’ve just learned about this great healing technique and it’s just
going to take all my problems away! I would invite anyone reading to see
just how easily they give their power away by believing in this stuff. I
have nothing against sound therapy, it’s fine, but to commence from the
position “There is something wrong with me and I need healing” is to
precisely hijack any healing process. All that can happen from following the
technique is a change in belief to “There is nothing wrong with me.” That is
the best possible outcome.

It dialogues something like this, ego – self:

– “I just want something to take me away from myself”
– “There isn’t anything, this is who you are, who you always were and who
you always will be”
– “But I don’t want to accept that. I’m not listening. I’ve got my fingers
in my ears. I need healing. I need healing”

The action of interrupting the ego’s desire for healing and confronting it
with the truth that there is absolutely no possibility of escape from itself
immediately begins to bring up all the feelings that it has been
suppressing, the feelings that, were they felt, would actually allow healing
to take place. But the ego is not ready to do this. Rather than accept the
limitations of its existence it is condemned to forever project the unwanted
feelings outwards and seek “healing” in some technique or practice. It can’t
work, but the ego refuses to see this. Were it to simply sit in the feelings
that are underneath the desire for healing then liberation would take place.

The best “healing techniques,” from the ego’s point of view, are those which
make it feel better temporarily, that give it a few hours or days of clarity
or pain release. It then develops the belief that to simply keep on
performing the practice will keep it in this relatively pain free state or
somehow “reprogram it” to not feel the bad feelings anymore. Pure bullshit,
of course, but the ego will believe anything rather than believe it can’t
escape from itself.

with love

Nick

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:32:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:37:26 -0700 CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

The president does not put anyone in prison. The judicial system
does  that.

The executive prioritizes who to catch, though 🙂

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:18:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:07:56 -0700 Nick Sandberg

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the
group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump
onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just
take it as a necessary part of the journey.

Have you climbed on, still waiting, or beyond that stage already?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:14:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:11:52 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

How can we move away from the mind when it is us?

Logically our minds are like accumulated bits of past tense which we
manipulate in the present. The present is like the head of each of the
trails that we are all tracking down. The trail gives us a framework
to interpret its leading edge. So the mind is always catching up (with
its load of equipment), which is just one of the activities taking place
in the present.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 22, 2004 at 12:04:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:12:19 -0700 CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

Draft and a turn in  Vietnam was mandatory unless
you did not pass physical exam for service or was a  Conscientious
Objector.

Or unless you joined the National Guard, which Bush did with the aid
of family connections, and apparently didn’t even do his duty there,
again with the help of family political connections.

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.

It seems to be commonly accepted.

Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted
coke or battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Good point, however some abstaining alcoholics are said to be “dry drunks,
” not having reformed their personalities. Bush’s grandiosity has been
taken as a symptom of this.

Mr.  Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is
above average intelligence.

He acts very confident, I’ll grant you, and is skilful at conveying this.
He is considered by both parties as being incurious about the world,
relying more on divine (gut) inspiration. Have you seen him in Fahrenheit
9/11, when he has been told that the 9/11 attacks have taken place?

If you want to find something that he has said of more than a sentence
or two that seems above average, we might have an interesting discussion
about it.

Other than disagreeing with you, it’s great to see how you are willing
to be balanced in your assessment of Bush. I enjoyed his anti-Israeli-
settlement position, which was brave and unusual for a US President –
to side with the more liberal Israelis against taking land from the
inhabitants of the West Bank. It seems to me that the last thing the
Israelis need is deep enmity on the part of those who will overwhelm
them with numbers in the end. Too bad Bush backed off that position,
so no hope of peace there.

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secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] general entrainment info
Date: September 21, 2004 at 11:45:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

Below is a link to a site containing general
entrainment information, in layman’s terms.  A good
introduction.  Some of the sound samples really suck,
though.
http://www.soundfeelings.com/products/alternative_medicine/music_therapy/entrainment.htm

I’ll try to find some more scientifically orientated
studies tomorrow.

Enjoy!

Have a good night,

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:48:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

I don’t want to babble about my personal life on the
list and hog space- I’ll send you a mail offlist.

I would like to say this, though: I think we
methadone-addicted need to educate our parents(that
is, if we WANT them to know), because YES- they are
spoon-fed an attitude/opinion towards methadone that
is completely biased and mostly fictional.  Methadone
saved my life- I could not get off junk; I tried
repeatedly and FAILED. Thank you, methadone for giving
me temporary clarity of thought and vision, though
synthetic to some degree.  I’m sure at least one or
two individuals, possibly more, might agree with me.
But then again, maybe not…:)

However, at the end of the day, we now have a
methadone addiction which needs to be contended with,
on top of getting our acts together and adjusting to
our lives post-opiates.  I think this is why our
parents might tend to view methadone a bit
ambiguously.  But this is only my situation..What’s
your story?  I think we might be surprised to find we
have certain parental similarities; or maybe I’m just
STONED or something…:)

Just a thought,

Julie

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

Julie, If I may ask, your dad is upset with you on
meth, is it what he has
been taught by the great propogandists in our media,
or is it just that you are
taking a drug, a medicine for something he believes
can be controlled with
will power? Though I no longer get the comments from
people anymore (I guess
after 23 years they are tired of harassing me) but
everyone in my family is
greatly disappointed that I have been taking
methadone. The problem though is their
knowledge and understanding of drugs, methadone and
addiction is so limited,
so inadequate that I almost can’t blame them for
their misguided energy. They
are ignorant due to grasping and believing the
propoganda and lies fed them by
those in power with a malignant agenda! As a matter
of fact, I stopped trying
to convince them of meth’s worth a long time ago and
just keep it to myself. I
guess what I want to know is will it be possible for
you to talk with your
Dad to educate him as to what you are doing with
meth and why? etc., etc.I hope
so.

Sincerely,

Julian

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:46:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Kinda funny, they won’t put you in a iboga detox place for $2000 to $10,000 and “fix” you
but they will gladly put in jail for $30,000 a year.  Do you know America put more of it’s population in jail than any other county?  Yep, more than Russia, Cuba, North Korea and Red China.  I would of been to Sara’s months ago but my Lear Jet is on the blink.  To make matters worse the guys I loaned my Yhatt to brought it back on empty.

Later,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Jim, I just sent you a letter about this privately. I can’t tell you how much I agree with you. Isn’t it interesting that virtually all therapy and treatment for addiction is very, very costly not available for most addicts that need it. And then you are told some arrogant, insensitive and superficial statement that your life is worth it and treatment won’t mean anything to you if it was free or cheap. If it costs an arm and a leg, you will place a higher value on it yourself! I can not tell you how fucked up I had to get unnecessarily so, because if I didn’t have the outrageously exhorbitant fee, I wasn’t worth treating.

I would never expect anyone to work for nothing Jim. But the drugs given us for addiction cost pennies…literally! It is their time we pay for and it is certainly worth alot but it says something very negative, very, well typical American Business Establishment mentality to say you care about people and wish to help them but only for a specific fee, nothing less, nothing negotiable!

This is why I respect you Sara so much. I know you do whatever you can to provide help for people. People as yourself and various underground treatments are the only things giving most of us some sense of hope and relief. Keep being the person you are.

Sincerely,

Julian
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:34:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, I just sent you a letter about this privately. I can’t tell you how much I agree with you. Isn’t it interesting that virtually all therapy and treatment for addiction is very, very costly not available for most addicts that need it. And then you are told some arrogant, insensitive and superficial statement that your life is worth it and treatment won’t mean anything to you if it was free or cheap. If it costs an arm and a leg, you will place a higher value on it yourself! I can not tell you how fucked up I had to get unnecessarily so, because if I didn’t have the outrageously exhorbitant fee, I wasn’t worth treating.

I would never expect anyone to work for nothing Jim. But the drugs given us for addiction cost pennies…literally! It is their time we pay for and it is certainly worth alot but it says something very negative, very, well typical American Business Establishment mentality to say you care about people and wish to help them but only for a specific fee, nothing less, nothing negotiable!

This is why I respect you Sara so much. I know you do whatever you can to provide help for people. People as yourself and various underground treatments are the only things giving most of us some sense of hope and relief. Keep being the person you are.

Sincerely,

Julian

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:33:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim,

I agree with you- South Florida has great spots, and
terrible spots.  I spent six months working as a
waitress in Key West, and that ROCKED!!  So many
chilled out, artist-type personalities, mingled with
tourists from all over the world.  There is a huge gay
community in Key West, and an active nightlife.

Look out for downtown Miami.  Pretty rough from what
I’ve seen.  South Beach is fun, but expensive, and a
trifle shallow.  There are some fun loungey places
that play cool music, there are also lame danceterias
packed with a huge consort of tanned,
silicone-implanted individuals; cool if that’s your
thing, never been mine.

I would recommend the Keys, South Beach for a weekend,
and possibly the Everglades- the hover boat ride was
AMAZING!

Cheers,
Julie

— Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid
state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail
for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I
doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.
There may be old laws still on the books, I even
wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on
the books.  Check out google and you will see some
silly laws and they are still on the books but not
enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New
York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a
lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people
make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be
afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either
of you have any questions about Florida you are
welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read
the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would
be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just
write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give
me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail
just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to
you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If
you want to mention it to each other after that, no
problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South
Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime
rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.
There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and
killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft.
Lauderdale is the same
thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and
rape you they will beat you half to death for the
fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are
wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part
of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car
jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I
lived in there for about seven or so years.    See,
they know your from out of town and are unlikely to
come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on
tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job
because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are
MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one
joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh,
BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central
Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or
gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just
for that.

I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and
women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist
just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through
a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do
become that frightened we can say the terrorists
have won. Things are watched more carefully because
we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as
far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those
untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 10:03:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi again Julian,

A friend of mine for 40+ years just died.  He spent 1/2 of his first two years of parole in them 90 day detox places.  They charge the state a lot of money for them and put maybe 6 in one bedroom (bunk beds).  It is all about money.

When people go on methadone they quit stealing, dealing, and selling themselves and other things that are not nice.  When people say look at all the money you spent on drugs,  now you don’t want to spend money to get clean, they are talking to a rich or well to do person or they don’t know what the hell they are talking about.

When you were a junkie how many people did you know that had over $100 on them, in the house or in the bank?  The only exception may be a dealer, for the theives and working girls it was a daily grind.  Any user knows that, of course that may not apply to movie stars or rock stars.  I knew a lot of people who lost EVERYTHING because of coke, including their freedom.  I know lawyers who went bankrup, embezzeled, and did time.  Pride comes before the fall.

When people say you spent thousands getting high, why not spend that money on treatment?  They mean well but really have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
We both know that as well as everyone on this forum.  Ultra Rapid Detox is a one or two day deal and it goes for $5000 or more.  Most any hospital where you just suffer goes for $3000 to $5000 per week.  Guys like us gotta take the county jail special.

Later Good Buddy,

– JIM

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
Julie, you have pinned the problem with most of us. Even $2,000.00 is an incredible amount of money. I have always said in the past that when people remind you how much you have spent on getting high, they fail to realize what you did when you were an addict to get money, you would never do when you stop getting off! This is a major problem for alot of people right now and as a matter of fact, it appears even other forms of detox and drug treatment are very expensive. I know this is not true for everyone, but there are obviously some people willing to take advantage of desperate people in desperate situations. Thank God for people like Sara.

Julian

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:44:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes please I am very interested in more info. Thankyou.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could
ask her for more info.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:31:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

If you come you will not be treated like a terrorist.  People come to America from all over the world every day.  Do you know how the terrorist get in here?  They fly in, it is no big deal, we let them in.  But if they ask if you are a terrorist tell them no.

As being gay or bi, they could care less.  Places like Florida, NY, and California love tourist, that’s how many of them make a living.  Just do not have anything illegal when you come across through customs.

It would be nice to see ya, but I doubt if you’ll be in Michigan,

– JIM

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:26:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, If I may ask, your dad is upset with you on meth, is it what he has been taught by the great propogandists in our media, or is it just that you are taking a drug, a medicine for something he believes can be controlled with will power? Though I no longer get the comments from people anymore (I guess after 23 years they are tired of harassing me) but everyone in my family is greatly disappointed that I have been taking methadone. The problem though is their knowledge and understanding of drugs, methadone and addiction is so limited, so inadequate that I almost can’t blame them for their misguided energy. They are ignorant due to grasping and believing the propoganda and lies fed them by those in power with a malignant agenda! As a matter of fact, I stopped trying to convince them of meth’s worth a long time ago and just keep it to myself. I guess what I want to know is will it be possible for you to talk with your Dad to educate him as to what you are doing with meth and why? etc., etc.I hope so.

Sincerely,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Administration of ibogaine – A Discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:13:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee, have you read, “Breaking Open the head” by Daniel? It is illuminating to say the least and his first chapter is his recounting his Iboga experience. If you haven’t, please do yourself a favor and pick it up.

Regards,

Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 8:56:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

I have heard good things about www.indra.dk they use an extract and it really does not cost that much.  26 Euros per gram.  I don’t know how much to take but if I don’t get the Iboga soon like in two or three weeks I am going to try it.  If and when I do, I will tell you if it was worth it.  BTW, if anyone else has tried it please let me know if it worked and how much you took.  Hear is a link if your interested http://indra.dk/

– JIM

jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Julian,

EXACTLY…I wish I had the money to travel to Holland,
but I can’t even ask me pop, ‘cuz he’s so pissed that
I’m on methadone as it is. I guess I alienated too
many family members during my strung-out period, to
even appeal to their sense of compassion.

What detox doctors/therapists fail to realize is that
most junkies have never had more than a day or two’s
fixing money on them at one time- in order to get
$2000 or more, and not spend it on drugs of some sort,
we would either have to prostitute ourselves, or rob a
liquor store. Personally, I would rather die than
turn to hooking, and I don’t relish the idea of jail
either.

Oh well…I go to sleep every night with the knowledge
that, ultimately, I brought this upon myself.

Julie

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 8:49:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie and Sara,

I lived in Florida both Ft. Lauderdale and mid state.  I have never heard of anyone going to jail for kissing either their own sex or another sex.  I doubt it that would happen anywhere in the country.  There may be old laws still on the books, I even wrote an article on some of the crazy laws still on the books.  Check out google and you will see some silly laws and they are still on the books but not enforced.

South Florida has a large gay population as does New York, California and Texas.  Also, there are not a lot of good paying jobs in Florida.  Many people make their money off the tourist trade.  Do not be afraid of kissing your lover in Florida.  If either of you have any questions about Florida you are welcome to write to me off forum as I do not read the forum because of the time it takes.  But I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.  Just write me at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com.  And please give me you private mail address.  No, not you IP mail just you Yahoo or AOL or whatever.  When I talk to you I would like to keep it between you and me.  If you want to mention it to each other after that, no problem.  But I strongly advise you to go to South Beach for action and keep away from Miami, the crime rate is terriable and you can get shot for nothing.  There are a lot of gangs and plain old robbers and killers that are VERY violent.  Some parts of Ft. Lauderdale is the same thing.  I mean these guys will not just rob and rape you they will beat you half to death for the fun of it.  Of course like any big city there are wonderful people there too.  Don’t go to a bad part of town looking for dope, you will be robbed and car jacked, and maybe much more, trust me on this, I lived in there for about seven or so years.    See, they know your from out of town and are unlikely to come back for the trial.  Therefore, they prey on tourists.

If you seek work, a waitress would be a good job because of tips.  Watch out for the cops they are MEAN.  Yes, they may very well arrest you for one joint.  Like I said, feel free to write to me.  Oh, BTW, the traffic is VERY heavy.

Best to both of ya all,

– JIM

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.

I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose of info.
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:49:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie ,

Maybe you are right, all the info. I get is from the T.V, probbaly that’s
how the media Works, they just tell us little part of the truth.

I would love to visit Fl. espesially with my younger kids.

Sara

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:18:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,

That’s what happen to most addicts,because it is illegal , but what is nice
about it all
Is that you still love yourself enough to wish yourself a change for the
positive, what ever it maybe to you.
We all do wrong some how to ourselves one way or the other,
Part of us will be forgiving and wanting to grow to another state of doing,
feeling and recognition .

When I feel in you’r writing is that, an  upset part of you and a forgiving
part of you  are talking , that mean to me a lot and I wish you good luck.
It is also good to share your idea’s so that we can be aware of the
situation and maybe give you an advice which can be helpful to you in the
future.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 18:42
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian

Julian,

EXACTLY…I wish I had the money to travel to Holland,
but I can’t even ask me pop, ‘cuz he’s so pissed that
I’m on methadone as it is.  I guess I alienated too
many family members during my strung-out period, to
even appeal to their sense of compassion.

What detox doctors/therapists fail to realize is that
most junkies have never had more than a day or two’s
fixing money on them at one time- in order to get
$2000 or more, and not spend it on drugs of some sort,
we would either have to prostitute ourselves, or rob a
liquor store.  Personally, I would rather die than
turn to hooking, and I don’t relish the idea of jail
either.

Oh well…I go to sleep every night with the knowledge
that, ultimately, I brought this upon myself.

Julie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:17:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/20/2004 10:02:45 PM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
I have always said in the past that when people remind you how much you have spent on getting high, they fail to realize what you did when you were an addict to get money, you would never do when you stop getting off!

Yes sir! I could hustle with the best of them but since I am on Methadone the desire to be dishonest is very weak and the hustle is just about non existence.
2000.00 might as well be 20,000 to me right now! So don’t feel like you are the only one in that boat!
I had been doing so good saving for Ibogaine but I had a fender bender and my insurance is 500.00 deductible. That knocked a big dent in what I had put up! That is okay though, I am still plugging away to prepare for my treatment.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 3:57:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/21/2004 4:49:01 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.

I have kissed in public in Florida a LOT, men and women and was never taken to jail!
I also do not think you are treated as terrorist just because you are from a foreign country.
When we Americans travel by plane we are put through a lot of pre-flight screening of our belongings.
We are not that fearful of terrorists. When we do become that frightened we can say the terrorists have won. Things are watched more carefully because we lost thousands of good people in one day!
Freedom and liberty is still the highest value as far as I can tell.
You should come and visit so you can put all those untruths to rest.
Callie

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 3:08:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandy,
All we can do is our best. Nobody is perfect and that is a fact.
All the best to you.
Lee

booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Julie – I sure love this idea about the healing thru chanting and “right” pitches.  Boy if civilization would ever look in this direction for healing instead of our usual “cut and destroy” where we view everything mechanically instead of energetically – it seems like everything would change.  I once read in an animal communicator’s book who claimed that elephants make these very deep sounds that help heal and tone the whole earth.  It was also said that elephants “claimed” it took at least 12 of them together to have the desired effect, helping to explain why elephants are SO unhappy when it’s just a few together (they can’t do their job.)
Anyway, that’s really off topic…
Lee, thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I sense a big change in your tone lately and very much enjoy reading your ideas.  Thanks for being receptive without defensiveness.  I hope I am capable of doing the same…
Best, Sandy

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Randy,

>

>There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental

>health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a

>process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is

>this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy

>vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated

>into a ‘pitch’.

>

>When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and

>gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.

>  According to entrainment specialists, the organ can

>be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by

>directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for

>long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with

>voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing

>pre-recorded tones.

>

>Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting

>it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it

>sounds like complete and utter malarky or

>pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or

>at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

>

>Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist

>who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could

>ask her for more info.

>

>

>

>

>

>__________________________________

>Do you Yahoo!?

>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

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>

>

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ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 2:20:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie – I sure love this idea about the healing thru chanting and “right” pitches.  Boy if civilization would ever look in this direction for healing instead of our usual “cut and destroy” where we view everything mechanically instead of energetically – it seems like everything would change.  I once read in an animal communicator’s book who claimed that elephants make these very deep sounds that help heal and tone the whole earth.  It was also said that elephants “claimed” it took at least 12 of them together to have the desired effect, helping to explain why elephants are SO unhappy when it’s just a few together (they can’t do their job.)
Anyway, that’s really off topic…
Lee, thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I sense a big change in your tone lately and very much enjoy reading your ideas.  Thanks for being receptive without defensiveness.  I hope I am capable of doing the same…
Best, Sandy

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy

>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Randy,

>

>There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental

>health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a

>process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is

>this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy

>vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated

>into a ‘pitch’.

>

>When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and

>gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.

>  According to entrainment specialists, the organ can

>be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by

>directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for

>long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with

>voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing

>pre-recorded tones.

>

>Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting

>it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it

>sounds like complete and utter malarky or

>pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or

>at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

>

>Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist

>who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could

>ask her for more info.

>

>

>

>

>

>__________________________________

>Do you Yahoo!?

>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Entrainment- healing through sound/frequency- Randy
Date: September 21, 2004 at 12:52:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

There is a theory that all sickness/pain/mental
health, can essentially be chanted/sung away, by a
process called Entrainment.  Basically, the theory is
this: each and every organ of your body has a healthy
vibrational rate/frequency, which can be translated
into a ‘pitch’.

When an organ/body part is unhealthy, it vibrates and
gives off energy at a frequency that is clearly “off”.
According to entrainment specialists, the organ can
be re-centred, and eventually ultimately healed, by
directing the correct frequency/pitch towards it for
long periods of time.  This can be accomplished with
voice, tuning forks, or even speakers playing
pre-recorded tones.

Imagine a cancerous tumour being dispelled by blasting
it with it’s own healthy frequency/pitch!  I know it
sounds like complete and utter malarky or
pseudoscience, but I would be inclined to believe (or
at least HOPE) that there was something to it.

Julie  🙂  BTW, I learned this from a music therapist
who healed my friend.  If anyone’s interested, I could
ask her for more info.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Julian
Date: September 21, 2004 at 12:41:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

EXACTLY…I wish I had the money to travel to Holland,
but I can’t even ask me pop, ‘cuz he’s so pissed that
I’m on methadone as it is.  I guess I alienated too
many family members during my strung-out period, to
even appeal to their sense of compassion.

What detox doctors/therapists fail to realize is that
most junkies have never had more than a day or two’s
fixing money on them at one time- in order to get
$2000 or more, and not spend it on drugs of some sort,
we would either have to prostitute ourselves, or rob a
liquor store.  Personally, I would rather die than
turn to hooking, and I don’t relish the idea of jail
either.

Oh well…I go to sleep every night with the knowledge
that, ultimately, I brought this upon myself.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 1:00:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Maryditton@aol.com [mailto:Maryditton@aol.com]
Sent: 20 September 2004 23:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s busy right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based on a misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste it, I will take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest part of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced more and more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel pain in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting if only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and in fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.  The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing to Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.”  You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?  If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,
Mary

Hi Mary,

OK, so it goes something like this…

…You never were born and you never will die. There is nothing that you have ever experienced, are experiencing now, or ever will experience that is not you. You are consciousness. This is existential truth.

However, after about 6 months of inhabiting the body, the belief arises that consciousness IS the body, along with thoughts and feelings. This belief in an identity smaller than everything is called the ego – a limited sense of self. This is relative truth.

So, to try and answer your question…..it is that the mind constantly seeks things to bolster its own sense of personal identity. It is driven to try and strengthen something which doesn’t actually exist. It creates a vast fortress around something – a personal “I” – the existence of which it has never been bold enough to question. It keeps moving because it neither wants to rest and risk confronting its own nature nor let up in the struggle to reinforce itself. This isn’t really a big deal, as the relative truth of egoic identity is just as valid as the existential truth of absolute identity. But, in times of transition for the ego, when there is a drive to further its own development, many questions as to what all this movement is about usefully arise and allow change to take place.

Hope this helps

with love

Nick

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 21, 2004 at 11:10:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You can find a list of ibogaine providers at http://ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm
from which you can make selections.

Howard

In a message dated 9/20/04 11:46:24 PM, Klatuu02@aol.com writes:

Im new to this list.. I have read  a lot of  the
experience that Iboga wields and  thought
it has tremendous psychotherapeutic  potential.
I would be willing to travel to places  overseas
to actually work with this entheogen..how  far
does one have to travel (from california) to  find
a workshop where it is legal with a  seasoned,trustworthy guide?

I have done other shamanic work as well  as
practice yoga and try to incorporate my  experiences
into artwork/music that brings back messages  from those
states of mind to those who would never  experience
them first hand…I personally feel art to be  integral to
the psychological health of our society and  that
the artwork of yogic /entheogenic  experiences
can bring back a lot of positivity to this  drab,
monotonous, consumer based  culture..

I hope to get some good responses in  here..
iboga is relatively unknown so I  assume
most people in here are serious in  their
intentions.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 9:38:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)<

As near as I can tell Sean, you got that right.
;-))
Seriously, I’m not at all dumping on Callie, only reminding her that in this
country there are lots of us practicing alternative lifestyles, including
her as near as I can tell- and all of us are greatly endangered.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US.
Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I
guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if
former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as
the come.:)

Sean

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Administration of ibogaine – A Discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 6:17:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everyone,

I am attaching a short document outlining personal observations on the taking of ibogaine. I have noticed a number of people running into problems with throwing up. So I wanted to share what I have learned on the various ways to take ibogaine.

I have broken down into Full & Mini Session/Oral Powder; Oral Capsule & Anal.

Discussion is invited.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 6:04:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary,
Just to clarify on that.
What I should have said is that I am willing to enter into my deepest issues which can elicit the deepest part of my pain. I do this as it removes the issues, releases the pain and allows me to be myself more easily. It frees me up.
I consider myself a practical man. I look on healing as much as an organic reality as a spiritual one. So I do what I can to heal the organ which stores all the ingrained traumas, …..
Lee

Maryditton@aol.com wrote:
Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s busy right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based on a misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste it, I will take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest part of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced more and more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel pain in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting if only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and in fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.  The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing to Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.”  You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?  If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,
Mary

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 21, 2004 at 5:51:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary,
Thanks so very much for the book recommendation. I am always starved of a really good book reference. Which is probably why I dont read too many.
The whole question of the sound in an ibogaine session is only something that recently I have started to think about as I was primarily focussed on my healing and understanding the journey. I think I need to read your book in order to come up with the questions and then hopfully get the answers.
There clearly is a connection in healing between the two and maybe its to do with tuning the mind onto the spirit level.
Howard gave out a reference on a paper related to music used among the bwiti: Polyrhythms Supporting a Pharmacotherapy – Contains Bwiti MP3 files: www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/showarticle.php?articletoshow=63&language=en
you might find that interesting. I am afraid I have not read it yet.
However I imagine there is a difference between the presence of sound in a session and the use of mantras to stimulate the chakras as that is a form of spiritual alignment – a spiritual practise. The other is more a taste of the energy of Eboga – an awareness of its spirit.
Just a few random thoughts.
BTW I think defining our bliss is an interesting idea you brought up. I believe that at a soul level we know exactly what our bliss is and identifying it is really a process of coming home to our true self.
Nice to hear from you.
Stay cool.
Lee
Maryditton@aol.com wrote:
Dear Lee,
The following is from a book called Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand:  Mantra allows the chakras to “switch on” safely and to operate at a higher “wattage”.  When we practise Sanskrit mantra, we increase the ability of the chakras to hold a spiritual charge.  It is as if a 25-watt bulb becomes able to hold 50 watts, then 100 watts, 500 watts, 1000 watts.  Mantras’ power derives not from any particular meaning that their syllables convey, but from the vibrational effect they create when they are pronounced repeatedly.  And as the mala (108 beads) relates to the rosary(54 beads) – multiply by 2.
I really think you would enjoy this book.  On page 29 the author talks of the anthropologist, Colin Turnbull ,who spent 2 years with the Mbuti Pygmies whose principle method of healing is chanting to the forest.  Turnbull’s book is Wayward Servants.  I haven’t read it yet.
So Lee, I’ve posed this question before to the forum with no reply; I’d really like to know your opinion or the opinion of anyone on the forum who is an ibonaut about whether the sound that accompanies the eboga journey has a connection to all this mantra stuff from India and Africa and all the other cultures that use sound healing.  A penny for your thoughts.
Good on you,
Mary

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 21, 2004 at 5:47:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Yes, if it isn’t mainstream then it is Alternative.

Not just gay, pot smokers and natural medicine providers.
Also, if you wouldn’t give Ritalin to your kid but homeopathic remedy or acupuncture, the school authorities will say that your kid is neglected.
They can take your kid away to give him/her Ritalin anyways , But if your kid is over weight then that’s fine, as long as parents sit, shut up and listen.
Strange , maybe the kids who are over weight should get Ritalin to become active and those who are active should keep the one who are over weight
running around. Just an idea.;-)

And, if you kiss in public with your girl/boy or gay/bi, and you are in FL. You can be arrested just for that.
If I come to visit you I will be treated like a potential terrorist, even when we are not even connected to any Muslim group.
Even if we are a grandma’s and hardly can walk, we are going to be photographed, the fingers are going be scanned.
But would that help? if the terrorists are already in u.s.a ,living and shopping next to you everyday, knowing who the real terrorists are
I wouldn’t take the chance to come and visit you.
Unless , freedom and liberties are going to be of the highest value again.

Sara

Van: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 september 2004 5:08
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 21, 2004 at 4:41:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary, I have been away a day and just now saw your post about chanting a mantra. That was the best explanation I have ever seen. Simple and direct. Makes me want to try it. Can any one do it? I have to figure out a way of dealing with pain after Ibogaine without opiates. Do you think it might help for that? All answers welcome.     Randy

From: Klatuu02@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine workshops
Date: September 21, 2004 at 12:45:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im new to this list.. I have read  a lot of the
experience that Iboga wields and thought
it has tremendous psychotherapeutic potential.
I would be willing to travel to places overseas
to actually work with this entheogen..how far
does one have to travel (from california) to find
a workshop where it is legal with a seasoned,trustworthy guide?

I have done other shamanic work as well as
practice yoga and try to incorporate my experiences
into artwork/music that brings back messages from those
states of mind to those who would never experience
them first hand…I personally feel art to be integral to
the psychological health of our society and that
the artwork of yogic /entheogenic experiences
can bring back a lot of positivity to this drab,
monotonous, consumer based culture..

I hope to get some good responses in here..
iboga is relatively unknown so I assume
most people in here are serious in their
intentions.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 20, 2004 at 11:07:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I agree that the term alternative lifestyle is very limited here in the US. Some same sex couples live some of the mainstream lifestyles imaginable. I guess being a gay, former hard drug enthusiast (trying real hard to keep if former anyway, but that’s another story) I guess I’m about as alternative as the come.:)

Sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 20, 2004 at 11:01:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, you have pinned the problem with most of us. Even $2,000.00 is an incredible amount of money. I have always said in the past that when people remind you how much you have spent on getting high, they fail to realize what you did when you were an addict to get money, you would never do when you stop getting off! This is a major problem for alot of people right now and as a matter of fact, it appears even other forms of detox and drug treatment are very expensive. I know this is not true for everyone, but there are obviously some people willing to take advantage of desperate people in desperate situations. Thank God for people like Sara.

Julian

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 8:57:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:39 AM
Subject: Re:
Hello dear Callie,
Skunk butter means butter made from weed,skunk weed. Like making cookie’s,
except you make butter.
Smiles Jasen (Aus)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 8:24:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary,

What I am saying is that the mind and body are inseparable.  They are
manifestations of you.  Pharmacologists would most likely consider the entire dialog
as irrelevant and say we should follow the neuromolecular activity, everything
else being conjecture.  That being said, any belief system works in certain
contexts if you believe.  That is why different belief systems exist and
adherents swear to their validity.

Problems sometimes develop when belief systems are put at risk as indicated
in the post below.

In a message dated 9/20/04 8:37:02 AM, ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com writes:

I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal
therapy. Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during
their time with ibogaine. It was as if they needed to, so as to help
break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new
information
should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received. These were
one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity
to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted. They were
secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their
collaboration confused the shit out of them. A good portion of their
process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created
a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”
The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.

I cannot verify the reality of what is said and just present it as an example.

Howard

In a message dated 9/20/04 5:50:59 PM, Maryditton@aol.com writes:

Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s
busy
right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based
on a
misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this

interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste
it, I will
take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest
part
of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced
more and
more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel
pain
in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting
if
only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and
in
fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who

states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all
it’s doing
in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying
to
move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.
The
behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing
to
Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have
any
theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind
is.”
You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?
If
you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my

question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind
goes off
center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our
center
we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can
be
owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are

by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a
stream of
thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with
a
condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious

to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving
away
from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 6:49:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard,
Just asked my neighbor to teach me how to cut and paste but she’s busy right now so I’ll have to do my best here.  I actually wrote to you based on a misunderstanding.  Let me explain:  Lee and Nick have been having this interesting existential debate and because I am not yet able to just paste it, I will take the liberty of summarizing it – Lee talks of entering the deepest part of his pain in order to find what he seeks and in so doing is embraced more and more by the healing eboga spirit, Nick is positing that the idea to feel pain in order to heal is a misconception. The thread was very very interesting if only that the 2 parties were so respectfully stating very different and in fact opposing points of view.
This is where I got confused.  You (Howard) posted quoting Nick who states, “But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it’s doing in seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is.”  You (Howard) write, “Very well put Nick.  The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.”
Howard, this is where the mistake occured; I should have been writing to Nick who said it but I wrote to you saying, “Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.”  You (Howard) replied, “How can we move away from the mind when it is us?  If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.”
In keeping with the comedy of errors it is Lee that responds to my question,  “Hi Mary, For what it’s worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painfull.  Therefore we avoid it.”
An anonymous contributor frome the ibogaine project writes, ” Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false – Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It is our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.”
So Howard,  are you saying that mind is who we are?  And Nick, Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is – I’d like to grasp your point of view.
Many thanks,
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 20, 2004 at 4:04:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie,
The 2 books that I am reading and working with in my own healing are Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand and Manifest Your Desiny by Wayne Dyer.  I just posted to Lee some quotes from Healing Mantras which you’ll read.
Even though I have been involved with ayurvedic study for a number of years, it is only very recently that I have been turned on by the practise of mantra; taking herbs I could grasp because I already accept the notion that we are what we eat, but  the sound vibration is something that we are “eating” as are our thoughts and all sensory impressions.  Therefore I decided to give the mantra thing a shot.  A woman that I have had spiritual counseling with recommended that I use the following mantra:  Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha.  This mantra is used to remove energy blockages.
I am a complete novice, Callie, so I can’t vouch for any of this.  I am saying this mantra for 40 days as this friend of mine advised and I wrote down my intention on a piece of paper and placed it in a “special” spot as the book suggests.  Actually the book suggests putting it on an altar or other spiritual spot in the home but I didn’t have an altar and now I sorta do…gotta get a holy card with Jesus on it (really dug it when I was a kid and even though I am totally repulsed by the Catholic religion I never lost it for Jesus)  and a few other symbolic objects – hey, maybe a tabernanthe iboga shrub statuette…
Even though I joke about this process, I have entered into it expecting great stuff to happen – I’ll keep you posted and I think the book will give you all that you need to do it if you like.
All the best,
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 3:30:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee,
The following is from a book called Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand:  Mantra allows the chakras to “switch on” safely and to operate at a higher “wattage”.  When we practise Sanskrit mantra, we increase the ability of the chakras to hold a spiritual charge.  It is as if a 25-watt bulb becomes able to hold 50 watts, then 100 watts, 500 watts, 1000 watts.  Mantras’ power derives not from any particular meaning that their syllables convey, but from the vibrational effect they create when they are pronounced repeatedly.  And as the mala (108 beads) relates to the rosary(54 beads) – multiply by 2.
I really think you would enjoy this book.  On page 29 the author talks of the anthropologist, Colin Turnbull ,who spent 2 years with the Mbuti Pygmies whose principle method of healing is chanting to the forest.  Turnbull’s book is Wayward Servants.  I haven’t read it yet.
So Lee, I’ve posed this question before to the forum with no reply; I’d really like to know your opinion or the opinion of anyone on the forum who is an ibonaut about whether the sound that accompanies the eboga journey has a connection to all this mantra stuff from India and Africa and all the other cultures that use sound healing.  A penny for your thoughts.
Good on you,
Mary

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 3:23:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/20/2004 1:26:04 PM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Hi callie,

Truly and honestly, I have no reason to attack anyone.
Sometime my English is not as good. Sorry if I gave you the impression of an attack.
I’m glad to see that you are writing Callie, that you are feeling better then few weeks ago.

My political feelings are nothing to do with Iboga treatment.

I always respect you freedom of choice.

sara

Whew! Great, I am glad! 🙂 I was having a hard time figuring out why you were upset with what I said.
Also, I did not know your English was not good. It seems very good to me!
Variety makes this life more interesting. It would be a dull and drab life if we all agreed with each other.
Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 2:25:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi callie,

Truly and honestly, I have no reason to attack anyone.
Sometime my English is not as good. Sorry if I gave you the impression of an attack.
I’m glad to see that you are writing Callie, that you are feeling better then few weeks ago.

My political feelings are nothing to do with Iboga treatment.

I always respect you freedom of choice.

sara

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 19:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

Sara, I would LOVE to travel to your country! I have never been out of the USA so my knowledge is very limited. I can’t imagine coffee shops and legal users places.
I think legalized prostitution is a good idea.
I sense that you are attacking me in a way. I really hope that is not true since I do not understand why you would feel the need to.
I would love to have my Ibogaine treatment at your house or I had hoped to consider it. Should I not?
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for callie on alternative lifestyles
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:37:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

by the way, Callie, an “alternative lifestyle” in my own opinion doesn’t
just mean same sex coupling. I practice an alternative lifestyle everytime I
light up a joint.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put
me a way for life.<

Got that right Sara.

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?<

Personally? Never again.
But that’s me- others have their reasons for voting the way they do- even
if
I myself just can’t understand it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?
I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put
me
a way for life.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 4:12
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA
getting
involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless
you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious
Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male
citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how
fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or
battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above
average intelligence.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara from Callie wasFalling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:36:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I would LOVE to travel to your country! I have never been out of the USA so my knowledge is very limited. I can’t imagine coffee shops and legal users places.
I think legalized prostitution is a good idea.
I sense that you are attacking me in a way. I really hope that is not true since I do not understand why you would feel the need to.
I would love to have my Ibogaine treatment at your house or I had hoped to consider it. Should I not?
Callie

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Combating substance abuse with ibogaine
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:27:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

** See below
This citation just popped up on pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed
Use the search term “ibogaine”

I’ve just requested a copy of the full paper.  If anyone has it they may wish
to post it to the list for discussion.

Howard

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2004 Jun;36(2):191-9.

Combating substance abuse with ibogaine: pre- and posttreatment
recommendations and an example of successive model fitting analyses.

Hittner JB, Quello SB.

College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina, USA. hittnerj@cofc.edu

Ibogaine is an indole alkaloid derived from the root bark of the African
shrub Tabernan the iboga and it has been used for many years as a medicinal and
ceremonial agent in West Central Africa. Furthermore, both anecdotal
observations and recent studies suggest that ibogaine alleviates withdrawal symptoms and
reduces drug cravings. Although ibogaine articles typically include
information bearing on the duration of drug abstinence following treatment, little if
any attention is given to the psychological and environmental factors that might
facilitate a positive treatment outcome. Hence, a major purpose of the
present review is to suggest a number of theory-driven, pretreatment and
posttreatment recommendations that have good potential for enhancing ibogaine’s
effectiveness. The second major purpose of this review is to demonstrate, through a
reanalysis of previously published results, the utility of conducting successive
model fitting analyses on ibogaine treatment data. Such analyses are useful
for determining both the strength and form of the association between
pre-ibogaine treatment variables and post-ibogaine treatment outcomes. Finally, in order
to facilitate future quantitative reviews, the authors recommend that a
minimum set of patient and treatment-related variables be included in all ibogaine
publications involving human participants.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Hittner’s article?  I did a serarch on related links and found two more 2004 articles, one from
an addiction journal – smoking.  When I get a chance I will see what these two are about.

ann
think@francomm.com

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:07:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Only the fact that I can do what I do, you can’t do what I do even if you could do it better then me.
You have the symbol of liberty. We have AJAX , Coffee shops, legalized prostitution, users places.

Callie , That’s a long story, but I expect that in the near future , we will have a refugee
camps for American intellectuals here in Europe.

Sara

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 17:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/20/2004 6:48:12 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an alternative lifestyle ?
Sara, I do not understand what exactly you mean.
The president does not put anyone in prison. The judicial system does that.
What do you mean by alternative lifestyle? homosexuality? Gays and lesbians are not put in prison. It is against the law to allow them to be recognized as married.
Personally, I have no problem with a legal union of two people who love each other, no matter what their sex. That is not the deciding factor of who I will vote for though.
I may have answered your question and not understood it at all! lol! If that is the case, please clarify and I will answer again!
Peace to you!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Combating substance abuse with ibogaine
Date: September 20, 2004 at 12:40:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This citation just popped up on pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed
Use the search term “ibogaine”

I’ve just requested a copy of the full paper.  If anyone has it they may wish
to post it to the list for discussion.

Howard

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2004 Jun;36(2):191-9.

Combating substance abuse with ibogaine: pre- and posttreatment
recommendations and an example of successive model fitting analyses.

Hittner JB, Quello SB.

College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina, USA. hittnerj@cofc.edu

Ibogaine is an indole alkaloid derived from the root bark of the African
shrub Tabernan the iboga and it has been used for many years as a medicinal and
ceremonial agent in West Central Africa. Furthermore, both anecdotal
observations and recent studies suggest that ibogaine alleviates withdrawal symptoms and
reduces drug cravings. Although ibogaine articles typically include
information bearing on the duration of drug abstinence following treatment, little if
any attention is given to the psychological and environmental factors that might
facilitate a positive treatment outcome. Hence, a major purpose of the
present review is to suggest a number of theory-driven, pretreatment and
posttreatment recommendations that have good potential for enhancing ibogaine’s
effectiveness. The second major purpose of this review is to demonstrate, through a
reanalysis of previously published results, the utility of conducting successive
model fitting analyses on ibogaine treatment data. Such analyses are useful
for determining both the strength and form of the association between
pre-ibogaine treatment variables and post-ibogaine treatment outcomes. Finally, in order
to facilitate future quantitative reviews, the authors recommend that a
minimum set of patient and treatment-related variables be included in all ibogaine
publications involving human participants.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 12:11:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put
me a way for life.<

Got that right Sara.

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?<

Personally? Never again.
But that’s me- others have their reasons for voting the way they do- even if
I myself just can’t understand it.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an
alternative lifestyle ?
I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put me
a way for life.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 4:12
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA getting
involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless
you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male
citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how
fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or
battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above
average intelligence.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 11:37:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/20/2004 6:48:12 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an alternative lifestyle ?

Sara, I do not understand what exactly you mean.
The president does not put anyone in prison. The judicial system does that.
What do you mean by alternative lifestyle? homosexuality? Gays and lesbians are not put in prison. It is against the law to allow them to be recognized as married.
Personally, I have no problem with a legal union of two people who love each other, no matter what their sex. That is not the deciding factor of who I will vote for though.
I may have answered your question and not understood it at all! lol! If that is the case, please clarify and I will answer again!
Peace to you!
Callie

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Astrology and plant healers ?
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:24:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7617861-4646508?v=glance&s=books
Astrological Practice of Physick: Discovering the True Way to Cure all Kinds
of Diseases and Infirmities which are Naturally Incident to the Holy Man
by Joseph Blagrave

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rachel Radhakrishna” <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:10 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Astrology and plant healers ?

Hi Sara and All…

I wonder when you say this: “> In other words, “I Am
what I Am” .healing is universal energy you all can be
connected to every waxing moon”

If you mean to suggest that you have (or one has)
different success with the plant magics if they are
employed within natural moon cycles?

In other words, might it be worth waitin till an
auspicious new moon to dose?

And have you, or any body else, any observations as to
whether grounding water and earth moons “work better”
or “differently” than fire and air?

Yeah… add a map of your star chart to the bloodwork
and EKG testing protocols!  🙂  And have a sit down
with your astrologer before hand so you know what’s
coming down the pike after The Interruption.

Sorry if this is a repeat of any earlier inquiries
into the subject.  I’ve personally had some intense
psychedelic experiences that I later interpreted as
mixing up semi unconscious brain lubrication with
strong astrological transits to a sensitive Neptune
point.

And my first astrologer really imprinted me on this,
because she took one look at my birth chart (june ’68)
and FREAKED since it was the same night she had been
strapped down in a San Francisco psych ward flipping
on an acid thing.

love,
Rachel

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – Amendments
Date: September 20, 2004 at 9:52:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

For those who are interested (and I accept its not everybody’s cup of tea) I have updated the list of points I submitted re: the Eboga Healing Process on an earlier post to clarify some misunderstandings. In particular I have clarified the role of intention a little better (I hope) and the appropriate use of mini sessions.

The link is www.my-eboga.com/healing.html

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 20, 2004 at 9:57:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
Just a note to clarify, the six ” screamers” came with psycho-spiritual intentions.  They happened not to be using any substances.

f.

On Mon Sep 20 6:31 , Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> sent:

Nick,
I fully agree with you. Its too much to cope with a sudden transformation for most people as the ego can be left wondering if it has gone mad. Gradual integration of a healthier outlook settles the as yet unhealed egos need for assurance and familiarity.
Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Generally it’s my opinion that the ego needs multiple “staging posts” on it’s long journey toward true self-recognition. Even though ultimately it’s merely a journey from here to here this doesn’t seem to lessen the impact of the experience. Personally, I think it’s great that the idea of being a “fucked up junkie” becomes transmuted into the idea of being a “primal screamer” or “healer.” It’s too much to cope with going from “fucked up” to liberation in one go because the body is usually caught up in the bioenergetics of trauma and to unravel all this takes time. Whilst this is happening the ego needs new places to hang out in, places like “healer” etc.

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just take it as a necessary part of the journey.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 19 September 2004 08:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn?t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don?t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don?t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 7:47:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are you going to vote for someone who will put in prison for choosing an alternative lifestyle ?
I know that if I were in your county, doing what I’m doing ,They will put me a way for life.

S.

Van: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 20 september 2004 4:12
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time, slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA getting involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!
Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.
Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above average intelligence.

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Astrology and plant healers ?
Date: September 20, 2004 at 7:10:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara and All…

I wonder when you say this: “> In other words, “I Am
what I Am” .healing is universal energy you all can be
connected to every waxing moon”

If you mean to suggest that you have (or one has)
different success with the plant magics if they are
employed within natural moon cycles?

In other words, might it be worth waitin till an
auspicious new moon to dose?

And have you, or any body else, any observations as to
whether grounding water and earth moons “work better”
or “differently” than fire and air?

Yeah… add a map of your star chart to the bloodwork
and EKG testing protocols!  🙂  And have a sit down
with your astrologer before hand so you know what’s
coming down the pike after The Interruption.

Sorry if this is a repeat of any earlier inquiries
into the subject.  I’ve personally had some intense
psychedelic experiences that I later interpreted as
mixing up semi unconscious brain lubrication with
strong astrological transits to a sensitive Neptune
point.

And my first astrologer really imprinted me on this,
because she took one look at my birth chart (june ’68)
and FREAKED since it was the same night she had been
strapped down in a San Francisco psych ward flipping
on an acid thing.

love,
Rachel

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 20, 2004 at 6:31:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
I fully agree with you. Its too much to cope with a sudden transformation for most people as the ego can be left wondering if it has gone mad. Gradual integration of a healthier outlook settles the as yet unhealed egos need for assurance and familiarity.
Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Generally it’s my opinion that the ego needs multiple “staging posts” on it’s long journey toward true self-recognition. Even though ultimately it’s merely a journey from here to here this doesn’t seem to lessen the impact of the experience. Personally, I think it’s great that the idea of being a “fucked up junkie” becomes transmuted into the idea of being a “primal screamer” or “healer.” It’s too much to cope with going from “fucked up” to liberation in one go because the body is usually caught up in the bioenergetics of trauma and to unravel all this takes time. Whilst this is happening the ego needs new places to hang out in, places like “healer” etc.

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just take it as a necessary part of the journey.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 19 September 2004 08:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn’t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don’t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don’t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 20, 2004 at 6:07:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Generally it’s my opinion that the ego needs multiple “staging posts” on it’s long journey toward true self-recognition. Even though ultimately it’s merely a journey from here to here this doesn’t seem to lessen the impact of the experience. Personally, I think it’s great that the idea of being a “fucked up junkie” becomes transmuted into the idea of being a “primal screamer” or “healer.” It’s too much to cope with going from “fucked up” to liberation in one go because the body is usually caught up in the bioenergetics of trauma and to unravel all this takes time. Whilst this is happening the ego needs new places to hang out in, places like “healer” etc.

Same with spirituality. Time and again I see people go into the group room full of issues and emerge, semi-cleansed, only to jump onto the spirituality bandwagon. It used to upset me but now I just take it as a necessary part of the journey.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 19 September 2004 08:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn’t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don’t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don’t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 4:04:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary,
I think its interesting the whole idea of mantras and beads. My mother says the rosary every day and I guess thats a form of the same thing. It helps to take the mind off the pain and allows the healing power of the soul to come through.
For what its worth I believe the reason the mind goes off center is that unconfronted past issues carry pain and if we move to our center we become painful. Therefore we avoid it.
Love to you
Lee
Maryditton@aol.com wrote:
Dear Howard,
Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.
Mary

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 20, 2004 at 2:37:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/19/2004, “CallieMimosa@aol.com” <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:

sorry bout the texas thing……..i new it started with a “t”!!!!!!

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 20, 2004 at 1:11:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/04 8:52:52 PM, Maryditton@aol.com writes:

Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always
moving away from where the mind is.

How can we move away from the mind when it is us?

If you can be more specific I will also try to be more specific.

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:49:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 10:15:59 PM Central Daylight Time, aktionman@phantom.com writes:
i know u r from texas………but……

lol! I am not from Texas! I am in Nashville, Tennessee!
I am NOT a Bush supporter but for other reasons besides he is drunkard or has low intelligence (according to who you talk to).
I do think he is sneaky, dishonest and selfish and I do not want him to be Commander in Chief for 4 more years.
Callie

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:07:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/19/2004, “CallieMimosa@aol.com” <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:

callie…………i direct you to this:
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/sovereignty.html
and this is just 1 of our prez’s shining moments. (did you see farenhiet
911?)
i know u r from texas………but………

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:06:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 2:00:21 PM Central Daylight Time, slowone@hush.ai writes:
there was skunk butter in the fridge though

What is skunk butter?

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:02:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 7:47:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Maryditton@aol.com writes:
“What if a person doesn’t have the gift of faith, then what…”

Wow! Pretty close-minded Priest huh?
Personally I do not think faith is a gift. We have to make a conscious effort to have and keep faith. It cannot be ‘given’ to us. We have to acquire it through awareness, study, observation and knowledge.

In the ayurvedic viewpoint there is no demand for blind faith, in fact it is written that a person should seek proof for any “belief” that he or she embraces.

That is an example of what I believe too.

reciting the simple manta “Ohm” – feels really great, I’ll let you know what kind of effect it has.  The woman who gave me the beads said to recite the manta at least once a day for forty days and the best results can be had by constantly reciting the mantra at any opportunity; if, for instance, you’re in public then you would say the mantra in your head. The reason I’m telling you about mantra is because Wayne Dyer talks about it as a very powerful tool for manifesting destiny.  My guess is that this vibration (the mantra) starts to replace all that chatter in the head about how bad life is etc. etc.  I have read that it’s sort of like charging your battery (life force) instead of the constant depletion that most of us go through by virtue of the worry that has infiltrated our minds.

That is very interesting. Is just that meditation supposed to do that or are there other special readings or routines you must do.
I really need to read Wayne Dyer. I have heard lots of praise for him since the eighties.
Thanks for all the sharing! I love learning new ways to calm myself and become more centered and grounded.
I would love to hear any other ideas you have too.
Peace! Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 10:12:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 1:05:41 PM Central Daylight Time, slowone@hush.ai writes:
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.
I have no problem with this part of Kerrys service to America.
A LOT of men fought in the war of Vietnam and did not agree with USA getting involved in a Civil War. Draft and a turn in Vietnam was mandatory unless you did not pass physical exam for service or was a Conscientious Objector.
His time in Vietnam was his responsibility as being an American male citizen. He did not have to agree with the cause to be a good American.
His opposition after returning to America soil should tell Americans how fucked up that war was. he seen it first hand!

Mr Bush was a drunkard
I am not sure I agree with you 100%.
Personally, I don’t care if our President has toked weed, snorted coke or battled liquor as long as it is in their past.
Shows that they are human just like me.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence,
I have heard other people say this but I think President Bush is above average intelligence.

 

 

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 19, 2004 at 9:51:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard,
Curious to know if you have any theories or insights on why we are always moving away from where the mind is.
Mary

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [DrugWar] Fw: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine
Date: September 19, 2004 at 9:50:35 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home
Affairs Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s
250,000
heroin addicts was fuelling drug crime worth £20 billion a year.<

Ahhh, yes, the old “those darn junkies are causing all the crime” tactic
again.
See:

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)

snip-

With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new business
and means of control that can be instituted without giving up the profits
currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs industries. When announcing
his
resignation as head of the White House Office of National Drug Control
Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of
war terminology in the fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when
discussing the situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when
discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for such a
stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement involvement in
waging
the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” on July 24, 2001, to join
the
board of directors at DrugAbuse Sciences Inc., “the world’s first
pharmaceutical company worldwide devoted solely to developing medications
for the treatment of addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment
is now explained.

“DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference in the
health of Americans through its understanding of treatment and its broad
portfolio of new medications under development,” asserted the retired
general. “They have created a company consisting of the leading medical
researchers, clinicians and most exciting new product candidates. This
combination offers the promise of developing highly effective medical
treatment options for addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our
country over 100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is
odd, as McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year
52,000
Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal costs of
drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per year.”[11]

Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and
profitable)
anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of prohibitionist Drug
Warriors
since President Nixon first uttered his declaration of a War on Drugs in
1968. As related by author Dan Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson
Institute estimated that New York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were
responsible for a whopping $1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than
the total amount of crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime
are
inseparable companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a
speech on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie]
steals
to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in crime.’
Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and raised him. ‘The
total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is around $10 billion to
$15 billion,’ he said.

“In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in the
US
in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the previous year).
That includes everything except cars, which junkies don’t usually steal
because they can’t easily fence them, and embezzlement, which isn’t a
junkie
crime. The combined value of everything swiped in burglaries, robberies,
and
muggings, everything shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or
boosted
from a warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s
War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as fifteen
times
the value of everything stolen in the United States.”[12] As the original
fallacious numbers bandied about by prohibitionists convinced the nation
to
support mass-jailing of druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced
treatment today.

snip-

9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001
<www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123>

10. Ibid.

11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000.

12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of
Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70.

—-

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine

Martin Bright, home affairs editor

Sunday September 19, 2004

The Observer

Drugs charities have accused the government of abandoning plans to set up
a
network of doctors prescribing pure heroin to addicts.

Two years ago, the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, announced that the
number
of licences issued to GPs entitled to prescribe heroin should be increased
from less than 50 to 1,500 in an attempt to take the supply of the drug
out
of the hands of criminals.

The move was applauded by drugs organisations, which said the use of
medical
heroin – known as diamorphine – would help addicts control their chaotic
lifestyle and stop them being sucked into crime to support their habit.

But new Home Office figures show that the number of prescribing doctors
has
barely doubled. The National Treatment Agency, the government body
responsible for dealing with addiction, confirmed that, by March of this
year, only 123 doctors were licenced to prescribe medical heroin.

The majority of Britain’s GPs see at least one addict a month and a
quarter
treat heroin or cocaine addicts, but only a tiny minority are able to use
heroin itself during treatment and most use the heroin substitute
methadone.

The charity Drugscope said that the move towards prescribing heroin was
derailed by the publicity surrounding Harold Shipman, the GP who murdered
at
least 215 of his patients using diamorphine. Shipman was jailed for life
in
2000, but the inquiry into the case, led by Dame Janet Smith, has had a
lasting impact on the medical profession.

Smith’s fourth report, published in July, called for stricter controls to
avoid the kind of stockpiling that allowed Shipman to build up his supply.

The debate over prescribing will be severely tested later this year by the
investigation by the General Medical Council into seven doctors at the
Stapleford clinic, a private treatment centre for addicts. The six men and
one woman worked in centres in Belgravia, London and Stapleford Tawney,
Essex and are charged with ‘excessive and improper’ prescribing.

The centre is alleged to have kept patients on lengthy courses of
methadone,
rather than cutting the supply sharply as recommended by NHS guide lines.
The defendants include Dr Colin Brewer, the founder of the centre, who is
recognised as an international expert in the field.

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home
Affairs
Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s 250,000 heroin
addicts was fuelling drug crime worth £20 billion a year. The committee
also
recommended establishing safe ‘shooting galleries’ for addicts. But these
have also failed to take off after councils failed to persuade residents
that they would encourage addicts off the streets.

Drugscope spokeswoman Natasha Vromen said: ‘These figures are
disappointing.
There were great hopes that the government and doctors were developing a
drugs policy where the health aspects were brought to the fore.
Unfortunately, it is now dominated by the crime agenda.’

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|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-          |
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com             |
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From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 9:21:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Lee,
I posted to Callie before reading yours.  You pretty much painted a picture of bliss…funny, hadn’t really realized that it helps to have a clue for what you’re looking for – thanks.
What I got from you was that it’s a whole lot more fun (bliss) to let go of all the pressure of being ego driven but ya still gotta pay for the lunch…
Mary

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 19, 2004 at 8:46:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie,
I’ve been out of town since I posted but thanks for the welcome. I have enjoyed seeing the personalities emerge at this site and I will no doubt post more often.  I feel that I am not a serious drug addict because I had no exposure to drugs.  I have emotional conflict that stems from a childhood with a severely depressed mother. My life has been devoted to getting to a place in my heart where I feel good about myself.  I am studying ayurveda (Indian medical system that translates as “knowledge of life”).  The vedic scriptures say that bliss is our birthright…hey, I got booted out of religion class for asking a priest “What if a person doesn’t have the gift of faith, then what…”  In the ayurvedic viewpoint there is no demand for blind faith, in fact it is written that a person should seek proof for any “belief” that he or she embraces.
I am using a, I’ll call it the Indian version of rosary beads, anyway, it’s basically a string of 108 beads, and reciting the simple manta “Ohm” – feels really great, I’ll let you know what kind of effect it has.  The woman who gave me the beads said to recite the manta at least once a day for forty days and the best results can be had by constantly reciting the mantra at any opportunity; if, for instance, you’re in public then you would say the mantra in your head. The reason I’m telling you about mantra is because Wayne Dyer talks about it as a very powerful tool for manifesting destiny.  My guess is that this vibration (the mantra) starts to replace all that chatter in the head about how bad life is etc. etc.  I have read that it’s sort of like charging your battery (life force) instead of the constant depletion that most of us go through by virtue of the worry that has infiltrated our minds.
So, thanks again, you are a Wendy energy (reference to Peter Pan) – always cheering people on – good on you!
Mary
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 8:35:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 6:27:04 PM Central Daylight Time, jimhadey3@yahoo.com writes:
What I can’t understand is how can 56% of the people think he is doing a good job?

I don’t trust all those surveys and polls. EVERYONE I have seen though does say Bush is leading!
I disagree that things will be about the same. I think they will be remarkably different. Thing is you usually don’t see the effect a President has had on everything until after 5 or 6 years from their election. We have to consider the future….not just the here and now.
Callie

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 8:19:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:24:51 -0700 Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Blimey-who were the idiots who voted that monster in?

Fewer than voted for his opponent. (The margin of the popular vote in
favor of Gore was larger than Kennedy won by.)

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 19, 2004 at 8:07:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I understand what you are saying I must but disagree.  See, the oil companies give money to both parties.  Why, so whoever wins owns them a favor.  Who decides who will run?  The rich do.  All presidents since Nixon were rich.  Believe it or not Nixon was poor, honest.  He had nowhere near the money Bush, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Ford or any of the others.

Our country is controlled by the rich, always has been and always will be.  They support from behind the lines.  You can’t even get anything important on the commercials, just half truths, lies, name calling, disinformation and what not.  Both lie like hell.  But this year I just might vote.  Just to say I did the best I could.  Right now the Skull and Bones is in power, regardless who wins S&B will be calling the shots, they are both members.  They will do as they are told.  The last GREAT president was George Washington.  No, I am not being funny, I reall mean it.  And this used to be such a GREAT county.  Look at all the great civilizations that fell, Egypt, France, Great Briton, China, Rome and I could go on but I am sure you get the meaning.  At least we can disagree and still be friends.  And when power does change it is in an orderly manner rather than violence and purges like Stalin and Castro.  And people still come from all over the world to the good old U.S. of A.  However, we are on our way out as much as I hate to see it.  BTW, not all votes count, specially in Florida.  But what the hell, what can we do?  It is better than many, worse than some.  But the day is coming when you will keep your opinion to yourself or wind up as a political prisoner.

Take Care,

– JIM

P.S.  As you know I am now an afishal doc.  Guess what I did?  I invented an eye test for the poor.  Women who take the pill or going through menopause should have their eyes checked more than men.  I should be done with it in a couple of days.  I would appreciate you opinion on it.  In fact you will be the first to get it – cool?

Later,

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/18/2004 11:07:08 PM Central Daylight Time, bchloej@hotmail.com writes:
So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not me, nor
any in my household!!!!!

No, not at all!
You can encourage folks to volunteer for Bush.
Thank God we are free to say who we hope will be elected.
We are very lucky to be able to choose our leader.
I hope that everyone will vote no matter who they hope will be elected. I am always very sad when I hear the percentage of registered voters who turn out. In my opinion at least 90% of citizens registered should actually vote. EVERYONE of age should register themselves also.
So many times I have eavesdropped or participated in conversations where one person was very opinionated about how poor our senators or President is doing only to find out that they didn’t even vote. They usually say something to this effect, “Hell, why should I vote, my vote wouldn’t count.” That pisses me off so much!
For one, if you don’t vote, don’t complain about the state of the Nation. Secondly, ALL the votes count!
Proud to be free and an American citizen!
Callie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine
Date: September 19, 2004 at 7:39:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Damn, those at Enron and Haliburton must be some partying and getting high people.  That’s enough to make the mob jealous and the Dems and Reps  in both houses too.  But politicians are good crooks, junkies are bad crooks, we all know that.  Maybe the leaders of this country should learn more arithmetic, not math, arithmetic.

Later,

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home
Affairs Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s 250,000
heroin addicts was fuelling drug crime worth 」20 billion a year.<

Ahhh, yes, the old “those darn junkies are causing all the crime” tactic
again.
See:

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)

snip-

With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new business
and means of control that can be instituted without giving up the profits
currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs industries. When announcing his
resignation as head of the White House Office of National Drug Control
Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of
war terminology in the fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when
discussing the situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when
discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for such a
stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement involvement in waging
the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” on July 24, 2001, to join the
board of directors at DrugAbuse Sciences Inc., “the world’s first
pharmaceutical company worldwide devoted solely to developing medications
for the treatment of addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment
is now explained.

“DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference in the
health of Americans through its understanding of treatment and its broad
portfolio of new medications under development,” asserted the retired
general. “They have created a company consisting of the leading medical
researchers, clinicians and most exciting new product candidates. This
combination offers the promise of developing highly effective medical
treatment options for addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our
country over 100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is
odd, as McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year 52,000
Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal costs of
drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per year.”[11]

Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and profitable)
anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of prohibitionist Drug Warriors
since President Nixon first uttered his declaration of a War on Drugs in
1968. As related by author Dan Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson
Institute estimated that New York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were
responsible for a whopping $1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than
the total amount of crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime are
inseparable companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a
speech on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie] steals
to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in crime.’
Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and raised him. ‘The
total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is around $10 billion to
$15 billion,’ he said.

“In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in the US
in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the previous year).
That includes everything except cars, which junkies don’t usually steal
because they can’t easily fence them, and embezzlement, which isn’t a junkie
crime. The combined value of everything swiped in burglaries, robberies, and
muggings, everything shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or boosted
from a warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s
War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as fifteen times
the value of everything stolen in the United States.”[12] As the original
fallacious numbers bandied about by prohibitionists convinced the nation to
support mass-jailing of druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced
treatment today.

snip-

9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001

10. Ibid.

11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000.

12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of
Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70.

—-

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine

Martin Bright, home affairs editor

Sunday September 19, 2004

The Observer

Drugs charities have accused the government of abandoning plans to set up a
network of doctors prescribing pure heroin to addicts.

Two years ago, the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, announced that the number
of licences issued to GPs entitled to prescribe heroin should be increased
from less than 50 to 1,500 in an attempt to take the supply of the drug out
of the hands of criminals.

The move was applauded by drugs organisations, which said the use of medical
heroin – known as diamorphine – would help addicts control their chaotic
lifestyle and stop them being sucked into crime to support their habit.

But new Home Office figures show that the number of prescribing doctors has
barely doubled. The National Treatment Agency, the government body
responsible for dealing with addiction, confirmed that, by March of this
year, only 123 doctors were licenced to prescribe medical heroin.

The majority of Britain’s GPs see at least one addict a month and a quarter
treat heroin or cocaine addicts, but only a tiny minority are able to use
heroin itself during treatment and most use the heroin substitute methadone.

The charity Drugscope said that the move towards prescribing heroin was
derailed by the publicity surrounding Harold Shipman, the GP who murdered at
least 215 of his patients using diamorphine. Shipman was jailed for life in
2000, but the inquiry into the case, led by Dame Janet Smith, has had a
lasting impact on the medical profession.

Smith’s fourth report, published in July, called for stricter controls to
avoid the kind of stockpiling that allowed Shipman to build up his supply.

The debate over prescribing will be severely tested later this year by the
investigation by the General Medical Council into seven doctors at the
Stapleford clinic, a private treatment centre for addicts. The six men and
one woman worked in centres in Belgravia, London and Stapleford Tawney,
Essex and are charged with ‘excessive and improper’ prescribing.

The centre is alleged to have kept patients on lengthy courses of methadone,
rather than cutting the supply sharply as recommended by NHS guide lines.
The defendants include Dr Colin Brewer, the founder of the centre, who is
recognised as an international expert in the field.

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home Affairs
Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s 250,000 heroin
addicts was fuelling drug crime worth 」20 billion a year. The committee also
recommended establishing safe ‘shooting galleries’ for addicts. But these
have also failed to take off after councils failed to persuade residents
that they would encourage addicts off the streets.

Drugscope spokeswoman Natasha Vromen said: ‘These figures are disappointing.
There were great hopes that the government and doctors were developing a
drugs policy where the health aspects were brought to the fore.
Unfortunately, it is now dominated by the crime agenda.’

/]=———————————————————————=[¥
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 7:26:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

EXCELLENT, however after all is said everything will be the same.  But anything and I mean thing would be better than what we have now.  What I can’t understand is how can 56% of the people think he is doing a good job?  He has more excuses than I have tracks.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/19/2004 6:27:51 AM Central Daylight Time, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:
Is there any one who could tell me that what are the major deferencies
between Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry?

I will be happy to tell you some major differences

Bush vs. Kerry on the issues
Reproductive and human rights
KEEPING ABORTION SAFE AND LEGAL- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT- Bush opposes, Kerry supports

U.S. Economy
RAISING THE NATIONAL MINIMUM WAGE- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
PRIVATIZING SOCIAL SECURITY- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Tax Breaks for the Rich
ADDITIONAL TAXCUTS FOR CORPORATIONS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
TAX CUTS FOR PEOPLE MAKING $200,000- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Religion and Government
ORGANIZED PRAYER IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
FEDERAL FUNDING OF RELIGIOUS CHARITIES-Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Environment
OIL DRILLING IN THE ARTIC WILDLIFE REGION- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
MANDATORY CLEAN AIR EMISSIONS STANDARDS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Equal Rights
AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION TO BAN GAY MARRIAGE- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
CIVIL UNIONS FOR GAY AND LESBIAN- Bush opposes, Kerry supports

Death Penalty
A NATIONAL REVIEW OF DEATH PENALTY FAIRNESS- Bush opposes, Kerry supports

Firearms
REQUIRING MANUFACTURERS TO HAVE SAFETY DEVICES ON ALL GUNS- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS ON ALL GUN SHOW PURCHASES-Bush opposes, Kerry supports

Education
ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
VOUCHERS TAKING AWAY  FUNDING FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR PRIVATE AND RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Hope that helps!
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine
Date: September 19, 2004 at 7:12:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home
Affairs Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s 250,000
heroin addicts was fuelling drug crime worth £20 billion a year.<

Ahhh, yes, the old “those darn junkies are causing all the crime” tactic
again.
See:

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

Treatment or Jail- Is This Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet
(originally published in Everything You Know Is Wrong-
Disinformation Books, 2002-
edited by Russ Kick)

snip-

With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new business
and means of control that can be instituted without giving up the profits
currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs industries. When announcing his
resignation as head of the White House Office of National Drug Control
Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of
war terminology in the fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when
discussing the situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when
discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for such a
stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement involvement in waging
the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” on July 24, 2001, to join the
board of directors at DrugAbuse Sciences Inc., “the world’s first
pharmaceutical company worldwide devoted solely to developing medications
for the treatment of addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment
is now explained.

“DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference in the
health of Americans through its understanding of treatment and its broad
portfolio of new medications under development,” asserted the retired
general. “They have created a company consisting of the leading medical
researchers, clinicians and most exciting new product candidates. This
combination offers the promise of developing highly effective medical
treatment options for addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our
country over 100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is
odd, as McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year 52,000
Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal costs of
drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per year.”[11]

Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and profitable)
anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of prohibitionist Drug Warriors
since President Nixon first uttered his declaration of a War on Drugs in
1968. As related by author Dan Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson
Institute estimated that New York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were
responsible for a whopping $1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than
the total amount of crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime are
inseparable companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a
speech on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie] steals
to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in crime.’
Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and raised him. ‘The
total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is around $10 billion to
$15 billion,’ he said.

“In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in the US
in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the previous year).
That includes everything except cars, which junkies don’t usually steal
because they can’t easily fence them, and embezzlement, which isn’t a junkie
crime. The combined value of everything swiped in burglaries, robberies, and
muggings, everything shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or boosted
from a warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s
War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as fifteen times
the value of everything stolen in the United States.”[12] As the original
fallacious numbers bandied about by prohibitionists convinced the nation to
support mass-jailing of druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced
treatment today.

snip-

9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001
<www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123>

10. Ibid.

11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000.

12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of
Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70.

—-

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine

Martin Bright, home affairs editor

Sunday September 19, 2004

The Observer

Drugs charities have accused the government of abandoning plans to set up a
network of doctors prescribing pure heroin to addicts.

Two years ago, the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, announced that the number
of licences issued to GPs entitled to prescribe heroin should be increased
from less than 50 to 1,500 in an attempt to take the supply of the drug out
of the hands of criminals.

The move was applauded by drugs organisations, which said the use of medical
heroin – known as diamorphine – would help addicts control their chaotic
lifestyle and stop them being sucked into crime to support their habit.

But new Home Office figures show that the number of prescribing doctors has
barely doubled. The National Treatment Agency, the government body
responsible for dealing with addiction, confirmed that, by March of this
year, only 123 doctors were licenced to prescribe medical heroin.

The majority of Britain’s GPs see at least one addict a month and a quarter
treat heroin or cocaine addicts, but only a tiny minority are able to use
heroin itself during treatment and most use the heroin substitute methadone.

The charity Drugscope said that the move towards prescribing heroin was
derailed by the publicity surrounding Harold Shipman, the GP who murdered at
least 215 of his patients using diamorphine. Shipman was jailed for life in
2000, but the inquiry into the case, led by Dame Janet Smith, has had a
lasting impact on the medical profession.

Smith’s fourth report, published in July, called for stricter controls to
avoid the kind of stockpiling that allowed Shipman to build up his supply.

The debate over prescribing will be severely tested later this year by the
investigation by the General Medical Council into seven doctors at the
Stapleford clinic, a private treatment centre for addicts. The six men and
one woman worked in centres in Belgravia, London and Stapleford Tawney,
Essex and are charged with ‘excessive and improper’ prescribing.

The centre is alleged to have kept patients on lengthy courses of methadone,
rather than cutting the supply sharply as recommended by NHS guide lines.
The defendants include Dr Colin Brewer, the founder of the centre, who is
recognised as an international expert in the field.

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home Affairs
Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s 250,000 heroin
addicts was fuelling drug crime worth £20 billion a year. The committee also
recommended establishing safe ‘shooting galleries’ for addicts. But these
have also failed to take off after councils failed to persuade residents
that they would encourage addicts off the streets.

Drugscope spokeswoman Natasha Vromen said: ‘These figures are disappointing.
There were great hopes that the government and doctors were developing a
drugs policy where the health aspects were brought to the fore.
Unfortunately, it is now dominated by the crime agenda.’

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 6:39:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everyone,

This is a strange election indeed.  Both Bush and Kerry went to the same college, both belog to the Skull and Bones ( a fraternity that does not pay taxes like the others), they are 3rd cousins.  Also, Rummsfield and Chaney are S&B and Chaney got 5 exemptions durning the Vietnam War. Seems the people who wan war are those who never fought in one.  It is sort of like an election between George W and his bother, regardless of who wins it all will be the same.  As the rock group The Who said ” We won’t get fooled again”  of course that was many years ago when you could peacefully protest without getting arrested.  In the future there will be no more protesting.  The people of America will be happy and not need to protest just like the people in Cuba and China.  In fact the government wants to spend millions of tax dollars to check the mental health of people. and you thought they didn’t care.  If you are mentally ill they will treat you, feed you, put a roof over your head and provide you with a shrink and a whole new bunch of drugs.
Nice to hear from you FakePlacebo, take care.

You ain’t seen nothing yet,

– JIM

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Blimey-who were the idiots who voted that monster in?! It seems pretty
obvious who the better man is out of those two! Not that I can defend Tony
Blair either 😉
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 04:27:03 -0700 FakePlacebo
> wrote:
> >
> >Is there any one who could tell me that what are the major deferencies
> >between Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry?
>
> Their records during the Viet Nam war show some contrast. Mr. Bush avoided
> the war by using family connections to get into the National Guard, and
> there is no evidence that he actually fulfilled his duty in the Guard.
> Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
> heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
> the war as leader of a veterans group.
>
> The rest of their lives show further contrast: Mr. Bush was a drunkard
> who tried various unsuccessful businesses, to some extent with the support
> of the Saudi royal family due to long family connections via his family’s
> participation in the oil business. Mr. Bush finally found some sort of
> fundamentalist Christian religion and sobered up. Mr. Kerry as far as
> I know has always been a career politician, and has been serving in the
> Senate.
>
> Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence, and a belief that he was
> chosen by God to liberate the Islamic world and secure its oil supplies,
> while giving up on civilized norms such as the Geneva Convention and
> much of the US constitution. Mr. Bush has a great ability to socialize
> and be forceful in advancing his belief in himself. Mr. Kerry seems to
> have much less ability to be convincing and gives the sense that he is
> opportunistic, but unlike Bush and all the architects of war in the
present
> government he actually knows what war is like.
>
> >USA is non-stop killing inocent and poor peoples in the third world
> >and while doing this Bush says “we are trying to bring democrasy to
> >Iraq.
>
> One has to wonder if they are trying to create more enemies in order
> to justify more power for themselves. Or it could be the natural hubris
> of empire operating without intention.
>
>
>
>
>
> Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
> secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
>
> Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
> http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434
>
> Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
> http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
>
>
>
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>
>

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 5:39:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/2004 6:27:51 AM Central Daylight Time, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:
Is there any one who could tell me that what are the major deferencies
between Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry?

I will be happy to tell you some major differences

Bush vs. Kerry on the issues
Reproductive and human rights
KEEPING ABORTION SAFE AND LEGAL- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT- Bush opposes, Kerry supports

U.S. Economy
RAISING THE NATIONAL MINIMUM WAGE- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
PRIVATIZING SOCIAL SECURITY- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Tax Breaks for the Rich
ADDITIONAL TAXCUTS FOR CORPORATIONS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
TAX CUTS FOR PEOPLE MAKING $200,000- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Religion and Government
ORGANIZED PRAYER IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
FEDERAL FUNDING OF RELIGIOUS CHARITIES-Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Environment
OIL DRILLING IN THE ARTIC WILDLIFE REGION- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
MANDATORY CLEAN AIR EMISSIONS STANDARDS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Equal Rights
AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION TO BAN GAY MARRIAGE- Bush supports, Kerry opposes
CIVIL UNIONS FOR GAY AND LESBIAN- Bush opposes, Kerry supports

Death Penalty
A NATIONAL REVIEW OF DEATH PENALTY FAIRNESS- Bush opposes, Kerry supports

Firearms
REQUIRING MANUFACTURERS TO HAVE SAFETY DEVICES ON ALL GUNS- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS ON ALL GUN SHOW PURCHASES-Bush opposes, Kerry supports

Education
ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR HIGHER EDUCATION- Bush opposes, Kerry supports
VOUCHERS TAKING AWAY  FUNDING FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR PRIVATE AND RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS- Bush supports, Kerry opposes

Hope that helps!
Callie

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 4:43:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 19 September 2004 20:24
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Nick,

I hear what you are saying but I have tried similar things in the past and they didn’t work for me. Now I have found something that has and I dont expect it is for everyone. But its what works for me and I am going to stick with it. Of course other things work for other people.

BTW I am not seeking pain but if pain is released due to uncovering important issues in my life I take that as acceptable.

Hi Albert,

Ok, that’s fair enough. It sounded before like you were seeking pain in the belief it was necessary somewhere

Hell, I am happy – more than the years when I suffered. So whats the big deal?

No big deal.

Nick

Love to you.

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2004 18:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Hi Nick,

While I agree completely with the case where one unexpectedly gains a great deal with so called little intention, I would argue that intention can exist without one being consciously aware of its depth or without understanding that we actually do have the right intention as we may not be clear on what that all amounts to. (Classically we confuse our negative thoughts with who we are out of self hatred.)  In my book I think what I wrote here is born out by the story, the analysis and the insights.

Assuming you dump that last paragraph completely, for arguments sake. I can tell you this much. The completion of my healing is only working because I have the fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain in order to find what I seek and in doing so I am embraced more and more by the healing Eboga Spirit. This intention has manifested itself in a number of drastic changes I made to my life which come out during the story behind the books. I gave up pretty much all I had materially and emotionally and held onto the minimum. It was extremely painful but utterly necessary.

Hi Albert,

Personally, I have little intention of entering any part of any pain, and would regard this as a pretty healthy attitude really. If something hurts me, that’s life, but I certainly don’t seek it. If you go to iboga with the “fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain” then it is likely that this is what you will get. It’s called pain-seeking behaviour. The only meaningful thing that you can find with this attitude is that it hurts and that there are likely better things to seek than pain, such as, for instance, pleasure.

The whole notion that it is necessary to “feel pain” in order to heal is a misconception, imo. It develops because the expectation of pain in the mind and the fear of pain in the mind can limit behaviour. Yet, emotional pain is actually a very minor thing when it is actually felt in the body, and not simply being assumed to be present in the mind. This can be hard to believe, but with experience is revealed to be true.

Perhaps one can say that Eboga will give everyone something – as they say: the first taste of the Grail is free but the second one comes at a price, i.e., Intention manifested by action.

OF COURSE: Just because nothing may happen in a given session does not mean one has bad intention. But intention that brings us into a daily inner dialog as we unravel, will also reap reward in the session. There are many factors to consider, not least whether you use capsules or powder… … I include the idea of intention to empower, not to judge.

I dont analyse my intention. I just live it as best I can in my commitment to the process. Its what has kept me going.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

I except this is your experience and whatever you have done has worked for you. In my book I add that there is more than one way home. This I simply deduce from the laws of probability and the creative nature of the Universe.

However I do not agree when you say there is no possibility of escape from this state of unhealing. Nick I almost faught with therapists who tried to get me to believe the same and also told me to control the child in me.

I am not asking that you control any children in you. I am just pointing out that when you exist in the belief that it is necessary to do something to escape from yourself then this belief is what takes you away from simply being. To create the idea that you are unhealed is to simultaneously create the idea that there exists a state of “being healed.” This expectation for healing, followed by the behaviour undertaken to try and fulfil the expectation, is just another circular pattern little different from the addictive cycle.

Had I done so I would be perhaps now dead as I have undergone multiple serious abuse and personal isolation over many years and suffered very deep pain. I have also explored the world of belief that says nothing can be done except to accept.

I have in the past 6 years experienced real deep connected healing and self awareness resulting from 12 major sessions and over 30 mini sessions. I have seen each abuse slowly unravelled. I have gone from year to year deeper shocked by the truth of what I found and the deep pain it left me. This pain is stored in the body and slowly I let go of it through the time of integration. I have seen my life change incredibly because of my attitude. So something is working for me. I am also guided by the spiritual realm and keep a dream journal etc as I have received various instructions or confirmations this way.

You are experiencing change in your life. Me too! It’s great. But if you cling to this concept of “healing,” which we all probably believed in for a while and likely needed to, then it will just drag things down. I’m offering you an invitation to drop it. I did.

with love

Nick

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 19, 2004 at 4:08:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

I’ll try to find the exact site right now…Give me a
few minutes…

Julie

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/19/04 2:57:53 PM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

My boyfriend watched over me the whole time…Other
than having a doctor on hand, I don’t see how my
experience could have been much safer.  I did
mucho,
mucho research, even fasted and took no methadone
for
30 hours.  The only mistake I made was NOT
staggering
the initial dose- which I did based on the advice
of
certain websites, which warned AGAINST staggering
doses.

Julie,

Your perception of not staggering the doses as being
a principal issue may
not be so.  Of course that does not refute it
either.  Which web site advised
against staggering doses?

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 19, 2004 at 4:06:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/04 2:57:53 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

My boyfriend watched over me the whole time…Other
than having a doctor on hand, I don’t see how my
experience could have been much safer.  I did mucho,
mucho research, even fasted and took no methadone for
30 hours.  The only mistake I made was NOT staggering
the initial dose- which I did based on the advice of
certain websites, which warned AGAINST staggering
doses.

Julie,

Your perception of not staggering the doses as being a principal issue may
not be so.  Of course that does not refute it either.  Which web site advised
against staggering doses?

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:57:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara,

My boyfriend watched over me the whole time…Other
than having a doctor on hand, I don’t see how my
experience could have been much safer.  I did mucho,
mucho research, even fasted and took no methadone for
30 hours.  The only mistake I made was NOT staggering
the initial dose- which I did based on the advice of
certain websites, which warned AGAINST staggering
doses.

I appreciate and respect your input, and have enjoyed
your posts immensely.  And I agree with you: everyone
is the master of their own destiny, and the author of
their own opinions.

Julie  🙂
— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Hey Julie,

What you are saying is true, only to make it a safe
setting doesn’t cost  so
much at all.
When you have the Ibogaine you can find a person
with in your town who can
watch over you and will know what to do, at least
they can use the phone and
ask an experienced person if they need to. I’m just
concerned.
It isn’t my responsibility if you go into
withdrawals but it isn’t
necessary.

You see, if I die tomorrow , nobody will be
concerned because I didn’t take
Ibogaine and I’m Mrs. Nobody.
But if I will die tomorrow after Ibogaine , that
will make a whole lot of
deference.
That can make it more difficult and more scary to
the guerrilla underground
treatment providers to continue their
Underground mission.

I’m happy we are in a free world and you can be the
judge of your doing,only
I’m the judge of my opinions.

All the best,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 21:14
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
– Sara

Sara,

Not all of us have the luxury of paying thousands of
dollars to be ‘treated’
with an entheogen in a foreign country.  So while I
appreciate your
sentiment, this was not an option for me at the
time, both economically and
logistically speaking.  What typical junkie can
afford the $10,000 price tag
for treatment in St. Kitts??  Most of us couldn’t
even afford
$2000(including travel expenses and whatnot) to come
see you in Holland.

I did what I could with the resources I had- what
else can be expected in
this situation?

Julie

Howard,

Well said, I agree absolutely agree with you,
Ibogaine isn’t something
you do alone.

Sara

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:43:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,

What you are saying is true, only to make it a safe setting doesn’t cost  so
much at all.
When you have the Ibogaine you can find a person with in your town who can
watch over you and will know what to do, at least they can use the phone and
ask an experienced person if they need to. I’m just concerned.
It isn’t my responsibility if you go into withdrawals but it isn’t
necessary.

You see, if I die tomorrow , nobody will be concerned because I didn’t take
Ibogaine and I’m Mrs. Nobody.
But if I will die tomorrow after Ibogaine , that will make a whole lot of
deference.
That can make it more difficult and more scary to the guerrilla underground
treatment providers to continue their
Underground mission.

I’m happy we are in a free world and you can be the judge of your doing,only
I’m the judge of my opinions.

All the best,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 21:14
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara

Sara,

Not all of us have the luxury of paying thousands of dollars to be ‘treated’
with an entheogen in a foreign country.  So while I appreciate your
sentiment, this was not an option for me at the time, both economically and
logistically speaking.  What typical junkie can afford the $10,000 price tag
for treatment in St. Kitts??  Most of us couldn’t even afford
$2000(including travel expenses and whatnot) to come see you in Holland.

I did what I could with the resources I had- what else can be expected in
this situation?

Julie

Howard,

Well said, I agree absolutely agree with you, Ibogaine isn’t something
you do alone.

Sara

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:23:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,

I hear what you are saying but I have tried similar things in the past and they didn’t work for me. Now I have found something that has and I dont expect it is for everyone. But its what works for me and I am going to stick with it. Of course other things work for other people.

BTW I am not seeking pain but if pain is released due to uncovering important issues in my life I take that as acceptable.

Hell, I am happy – more than the years when I suffered. So whats the big deal?

Love to you.

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2004 18:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Hi Nick,

While I agree completely with the case where one unexpectedly gains a great deal with so called little intention, I would argue that intention can exist without one being consciously aware of its depth or without understanding that we actually do have the right intention as we may not be clear on what that all amounts to. (Classically we confuse our negative thoughts with who we are out of self hatred.)  In my book I think what I wrote here is born out by the story, the analysis and the insights.

Assuming you dump that last paragraph completely, for arguments sake. I can tell you this much. The completion of my healing is only working because I have the fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain in order to find what I seek and in doing so I am embraced more and more by the healing Eboga Spirit. This intention has manifested itself in a number of drastic changes I made to my life which come out during the story behind the books. I gave up pretty much all I had materially and emotionally and held onto the minimum. It was extremely painful but utterly necessary.

Hi Albert,

Personally, I have little intention of entering any part of any pain, and would regard this as a pretty healthy attitude really. If something hurts me, that’s life, but I certainly don’t seek it. If you go to iboga with the “fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain” then it is likely that this is what you will get. It’s called pain-seeking behaviour. The only meaningful thing that you can find with this attitude is that it hurts and that there are likely better things to seek than pain, such as, for instance, pleasure.

The whole notion that it is necessary to “feel pain” in order to heal is a misconception, imo. It develops because the expectation of pain in the mind and the fear of pain in the mind can limit behaviour. Yet, emotional pain is actually a very minor thing when it is actually felt in the body, and not simply being assumed to be present in the mind. This can be hard to believe, but with experience is revealed to be true.

Perhaps one can say that Eboga will give everyone something – as they say: the first taste of the Grail is free but the second one comes at a price, i.e., Intention manifested by action.

OF COURSE: Just because nothing may happen in a given session does not mean one has bad intention. But intention that brings us into a daily inner dialog as we unravel, will also reap reward in the session. There are many factors to consider, not least whether you use capsules or powder… … I include the idea of intention to empower, not to judge.

I dont analyse my intention. I just live it as best I can in my commitment to the process. Its what has kept me going.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

I except this is your experience and whatever you have done has worked for you. In my book I add that there is more than one way home. This I simply deduce from the laws of probability and the creative nature of the Universe.

However I do not agree when you say there is no possibility of escape from this state of unhealing. Nick I almost faught with therapists who tried to get me to believe the same and also told me to control the child in me.

I am not asking that you control any children in you. I am just pointing out that when you exist in the belief that it is necessary to do something to escape from yourself then this belief is what takes you away from simply being. To create the idea that you are unhealed is to simultaneously create the idea that there exists a state of “being healed.” This expectation for healing, followed by the behaviour undertaken to try and fulfil the expectation, is just another circular pattern little different from the addictive cycle.

Had I done so I would be perhaps now dead as I have undergone multiple serious abuse and personal isolation over many years and suffered very deep pain. I have also explored the world of belief that says nothing can be done except to accept.

I have in the past 6 years experienced real deep connected healing and self awareness resulting from 12 major sessions and over 30 mini sessions. I have seen each abuse slowly unravelled. I have gone from year to year deeper shocked by the truth of what I found and the deep pain it left me. This pain is stored in the body and slowly I let go of it through the time of integration. I have seen my life change incredibly because of my attitude. So something is working for me. I am also guided by the spiritual realm and keep a dream journal etc as I have received various instructions or confirmations this way.

You are experiencing change in your life. Me too! It’s great. But if you cling to this concept of “healing,” which we all probably believed in for a while and likely needed to, then it will just drag things down. I’m offering you an invitation to drop it. I did.

with love

Nick

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:24:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Blimey-who were the idiots who voted that monster in?! It seems pretty
obvious who the better man is out of those two!  Not that I can defend Tony
Blair either 😉
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 04:27:03 -0700 FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Is there any one who could tell me that what are the major deferencies
between Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry?

Their records during the Viet Nam war show some contrast. Mr. Bush avoided
the war by using family connections to get into the National Guard, and
there is no evidence that he actually fulfilled his duty in the Guard.
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.

The rest of their lives show further contrast: Mr. Bush was a drunkard
who tried various unsuccessful businesses, to some extent with the support
of the Saudi royal family due to long family connections via his family’s
participation in the oil business. Mr. Bush finally found some sort of
fundamentalist Christian religion and sobered up. Mr. Kerry as far as
I know has always been a career politician, and has been serving in the
Senate.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence, and a belief that he was
chosen by God to liberate the Islamic world and secure its oil supplies,
while giving up on civilized norms such as the Geneva Convention and
much of the US constitution. Mr. Bush has a great ability to socialize
and be forceful in advancing his belief in himself. Mr. Kerry seems to
have much less ability to be convincing and gives the sense that he is
opportunistic, but unlike Bush and all the architects of war in the
present
government he actually knows what war is like.

USA is non-stop killing inocent and poor peoples in the third world
and while doing this Bush says “we are trying to bring democrasy to
Iraq.

One has to wonder if they are trying to create more enemies in order
to justify more power for themselves. Or it could be the natural hubris
of empire operating without intention.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy – Sara
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:14:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara,

Not all of us have the luxury of paying thousands of
dollars to be ‘treated’ with an entheogen in a foreign
country.  So while I appreciate your sentiment, this
was not an option for me at the time, both
economically and logistically speaking.  What typical
junkie can afford the $10,000 price tag for treatment
in St. Kitts??  Most of us couldn’t even afford
$2000(including travel expenses and whatnot) to come
see you in Holland.

I did what I could with the resources I had- what else
can be expected in this situation?

Julie

Howard,

Well said, I agree absolutely agree with you,
Ibogaine isn’t something you
do alone.

Sara

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:14:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla,
Thanks for the tip. I removed the (TM) from the Eboga Process (TM). You are right. It gives the wrong impression. My idea is to build up a body of ideas around this label – thats why I introduced it.
Love to you,
Lee

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

Jason I wanted to say that I think all of us feel this
way even years after, the why am I even bothering
damned if you do and damned if you don’t think of
what your life was like right before you did ibogaine.
Not the good parts of being high or the positive
things it gave you, but think about right before you
did ibogaine and what it was like. That always works
and puts everything back into black and white for me
really fast! 🙂 It might not do it for you because I
don’t know how bad things were, but that trick helps
me a lot.

Hi Lee, I’m not sure how I feel about everything you
have to say because i’m not carefully taking the time
to think about every little piece of your very long
posts. The reason I never get further into them is I
think perfectly written out by Frank I think in one
sentence it was, ‘the ego can ride any horse’ that was
perfect 🙂

I think you’re a smart guy who means well, which
describes so many people here, but what I’ve noticed
over the years I’ve been here is that I think almost
all, or all (but I don’t want to make a huge sweeping
statement which may be wrong, so I’m sticking with
almost all 😉 of the people here who have worked with
ibogaine for a long time, get more mellow and less
know it all as time goes by, which was the ‘the more I
learn the less i know’ conversation.

That includes Frank, Eric, Sara, Patrick, Howard,
Nick, I think everyone here who really knows ibogaine.
They’re all different people and go off about
different things at times, but from reading your site
and what you say, it seems alot like this huge
monument to your ego. Please understand I’m not
disrespecting you and I think you mean well, like
anyone who works with ibogaine, except it’s almost
like the mirror image of mindvox, where other people
say great things about it and then Patrick tears it
down and makes fun of himself and everything else.
Your biography fills up pages, without every really
saying anything except you ran all over the place and
then did ibogaine.

Your whole attitude is just very…. off-putting, even
your last message, like you have some great big truth
that everyone has been waiting for, except I don’t
somehow see you applying it to yourself I admit I
don’t know you at all and you’re obviously a smart
guy, but you just seem very arrogant and full of
yourself, which is not to say that any of the people I
mentioned before aren’t sometimes arrogant or argue,
but with you it is like one long winded same thing.

Vector made fun of everyone here I think in a nice way
and welcomed you as another messianic author who
self-published books on ibogaine, but really that is a
lot what it seems like. Your site is so full of, I
won’t say it. “The Eboga Process,”(TM) you wrote that
and you don’t look like you understand how funny that
is.

Sorry but I somehow don’t see whatever it is that
you’ve done as some goal that anybody wants to reach.
You might want to work on yourself a little bit before
self-publishing another 5 books in your Eboga Healing
Process(TM). I’m sorry, I can’t read that without
cracking up, because Patrick does that all the time
with the TM and R’s, except he’s joking, you’re really
not. This whole place is filled with people who have
been working with ibogaine for years or decades, I
don’t think you can name one person who isn’t here,
who knows about ibogaine and not one of them is
anywhere near as full of themselves as you.

Marc Emery (how is marc?) is humble compared to you! I
don’t think I ever thought I would see that! 😉

Carla B

— Lee Albert wrote:

> Jason,
>
> Its unfortunate if I come across as believing I have
> all the answers. I don’t and I can only pass on what
> I have learned through my own set of experiences.
> Enthusiasm for something that works does not equal
> arrogance for anything else.
>
> However I do feel passionately that I have learned a
> great deal in my own area of interest and I back
> that up with actual tangible results.
>
> There is a saying, “Healer heal thyself” and that I
> believe should be the the objective of all healers.
> Thats where real knowledge comes.
>
> In my work I can stand over certain ideas with
> almost 100% certainty as I have seen the phenomenon
> within myself. Other ideas I put forward as ideas in
> motion – models to build upon. And yet others I have
> yet to explore.
>
> The points I offered on the Healing Process are my
> observations as they occured in my use of Eboga. I
> have no qualms in saying I believe these phenomena
> will be repeatable for a large number of people. Yet
> again maybe it is someones Soul path to
> self-destruct. Well, I dont go there in judging
> anybody’s individual program. Thats above my head.
>
> I offer my ideas to enlarge the program and move
> beyond the present point. Thats how systems evolve
> and grow but only a fool would suggest anything is
> set in cement.
>
> What I have come up with is a solid departure point
> and if someone refutes my arguments in order to
> return to the status quo (to hold onto an existing
> belief – as you rightly point out) I will fight them
> tooth and nail in the same way I would oppose
> burning witches at the stake. That is not to say my
> views are not unchangeable. In any case: Its not the
> view that counts but what it can do for you.
>
> Hence why I am writing books with stories in them so
> that at some level what I have to say can be put
> into perspective and considered reasonable or not.
> Eboga is about Self Knowledge – not about learning
> from a book.
>
> If you read my previous post you will see I agree
> with you on your view of how eager we can become
> about something that works. And in my writing I
> repeatedly say there is more than one way. But if I
> have found a path that I know very well, then I will
> withstand any effort to block the path to others
> through uninformed argument and I will trumpet its
> existence to the world and the millions suffering
> for lack of that knowledge.
>
> On another note would you be kind enough to put
> forward any part of what I have wrote that bears out
> your point that I think I have all the answers? It
> would be good for me to be enlightened so I dont
> make this mistake repeatedly.
>
> Nice to hear from you & thanks for being so honest.
>
> Lee
>
> BTW relapse into addiction is not a reflection of
> where one is on the healing program. Its a symptom
> of the pain and may very well be the last thing to
> go on the healing journey. Be careful to love
> yourself and not mix up intention with
> self-flagellation.
>
> Also, abandonment is a major issue. There are many
> issues and each one is dealth with in its own good
> time. There is no one single profile of issues that
> we all fit.
>

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:10:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In other words, “I Am what I Am” .healing is universal energy you all can be connected to every waxing moon.
You also can be connected to that universal healing energy by taking Iboga, ayahuscha, mushrooms, peyote’s,san pedro’s,Santa-maria, …
But then how much healing, is how closer you get to the understanding of  “I Am what I AM” , believe it or not you are perfectly made.
This is just an opinion of another fool who like to get to paradise. Shambala.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 20:31
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Hi All,
            Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false.  Nothing/Everything is who we are.  Yes, there is personality, ego, but it is not necessary and it causes suffering to identify through the separate sense.  We are and a part of All That Is, and if we relax into This by not taking the contents of our minds so seriously, we will “begin” to have the existential sense of being a part of something bigger.  There’s no belief here and seeking anything including healing supports the lie.
             Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It’s important to feel feelings and not run away from them or for that matter overly embrace them.  At a certain point in process it’s appropriate not to follow the storylines within “mind”.  Disassociate from the contents of mind and relax more and more into the Moment.  Don’t take any thing with me.  Let go of any and all associations and what remains?  A sense of joy, rest, peace….i am born/die every moment.  It’s closer than our breadth.   It is Home.  “Blessed is he who begins at the beginning, and stays there”- gospel according to St. Thomas
            It’s our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.  Healing happens when the individual no longer identifies with the separate sense.  I don’t believe we have to polish our egos to the point of getting an “A”.  I think a C+ will do.  The universe is not so fucking relentless as to require any sembance of perfection.  A C+ will do and then “we” can get out of the way.  Relax at that point and the separate sense will automatically burn.  There is no where to go and nothing to do.  This is a process of unraveling and it takes doing nothing, leaning towards letting go and relaxing.
             
                                                                                   An opinion from another fool who seeked              
                                                                                   and rode many horses in the name of 
                                                                                   truth.
God help me ( hee,hee, ),
                   
                                                                                                                                                     Francesco
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2004 18:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Hi Nick,

While I agree completely with the case where one unexpectedly gains a great deal with so called little intention, I would argue that intention can exist without one being consciously aware of its depth or without understanding that we actually do have the right intention as we may not be clear on what that all amounts to. (Classically we confuse our negative thoughts with who we are out of self hatred.)  In my book I think what I wrote here is born out by the story, the analysis and the insights.

Assuming you dump that last paragraph completely, for arguments sake. I can tell you this much. The completion of my healing is only working because I have the fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain in order to find what I seek and in doing so I am embraced more and more by the healing Eboga Spirit. This intention has manifested itself in a number of drastic changes I made to my life which come out during the story behind the books. I gave up pretty much all I had materially and emotionally and held onto the minimum. It was extremely painful but utterly necessary.

Hi Albert,

Personally, I have little intention of entering any part of any pain, and would regard this as a pretty healthy attitude really. If something hurts me, that’s life, but I certainly don’t seek it. If you go to iboga with the “fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain” then it is likely that this is what you will get. It’s called pain-seeking behaviour. The only meaningful thing that you can find with this attitude is that it hurts and that there are likely better things to seek than pain, such as, for instance, pleasure.

The whole notion that it is necessary to “feel pain” in order to heal is a misconception, imo. It develops because the expectation of pain in the mind and the fear of pain in the mind can limit behaviour. Yet, emotional pain is actually a very minor thing when it is actually felt in the body, and not simply being assumed to be present in the mind. This can be hard to believe, but with experience is revealed to be true.

Perhaps one can say that Eboga will give everyone something – as they say: the first taste of the Grail is free but the second one comes at a price, i.e., Intention manifested by action.

OF COURSE: Just because nothing may happen in a given session does not mean one has bad intention. But intention that brings us into a daily inner dialog as we unravel, will also reap reward in the session. There are many factors to consider, not least whether you use capsules or powder… … I include the idea of intention to empower, not to judge.

I dont analyse my intention. I just live it as best I can in my commitment to the process. Its what has kept me going.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

I except this is your experience and whatever you have done has worked for you. In my book I add that there is more than one way home. This I simply deduce from the laws of probability and the creative nature of the Universe.

However I do not agree when you say there is no possibility of escape from this state of unhealing. Nick I almost faught with therapists who tried to get me to believe the same and also told me to control the child in me.

I am not asking that you control any children in you. I am just pointing out that when you exist in the belief that it is necessary to do something to escape from yourself then this belief is what takes you away from simply being. To create the idea that you are unhealed is to simultaneously create the idea that there exists a state of “being healed.” This expectation for healing, followed by the behaviour undertaken to try and fulfil the expectation, is just another circular pattern little different from the addictive cycle.

Had I done so I would be perhaps now dead as I have undergone multiple serious abuse and personal isolation over many years and suffered very deep pain. I have also explored the world of belief that says nothing can be done except to accept.

I have in the past 6 years experienced real deep connected healing and self awareness resulting from 12 major sessions and over 30 mini sessions. I have seen each abuse slowly unravelled. I have gone from year to year deeper shocked by the truth of what I found and the deep pain it left me. This pain is stored in the body and slowly I let go of it through the time of integration. I have seen my life change incredibly because of my attitude. So something is working for me. I am also guided by the spiritual realm and keep a dream journal etc as I have received various instructions or confirmations this way.

You are experiencing change in your life. Me too! It’s great. But if you cling to this concept of “healing,” which we all probably believed in for a while and likely needed to, then it will just drag things down. I’m offering you an invitation to drop it. I did.

with love

Nick
BTW:

Pain is stored in the body emotionally, mentally (ego) and spiritually (soul).

Reality is about a balance between the ego and the soul and hence personal liberation in this life only comes through the healing of all parts. The ego is very important but it cannot be free until all the pain it suppresses is healed. I stand for freedom. And I work from the ground up unprejudiced and open to every possibility.

Dont believe me but this is what I believe and what I am experiencing.

I will say this though: It is F***King x 2 hard but not impossible??

never will be any possibility of escape from this

There is the question. I believe for me I am well on the way. But every soul is different and I cannot speak for everyone. Each path is different and each has their own relationship to God. I can only put my own experience across. And given the way Eboga has encouraged and inspired me endlessly in my writing I assume it agrees too with some of what I am writing – at least between the lines. What you say here reminds me of all the people I have known who kept telling me to settle down and get married before I really knew what I was looking for.

It certainly is difficult when we vehemently believe something. But it is not about blind belief. It is about faith first and foremost and with the proof of the pudding comes belief. Faith comes before Belief. My beliefs took 6 years to develop + a lifetime before. And, if there is nothing really to lose for someone in a miserable existence and all to gain, why not go for it? After my first session I had all the faith I needed to get started and maybe I should add another number now to my list:

The first session may give you the faith to do another.

With respect,

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 16 September 2004 14:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process
Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person?s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

Hi Lee,

I would certainly agree that intention is everything, but intention also develops naturally with awareness. Just taking ibogaine with very little awareness or intention can still catalyse massive change. It did for me in my first iboga experience. It’s great if you have the intention to heal, and I guess most people would not be drawn to use ibogaine were that not at least partially present, but to say it is needed is going too far.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

with love

Nick

2. Willingness to change:

Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has ? the ?I can have it all? mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ?all? really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.

There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.

When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming ? hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.

While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn?t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.

Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off ? years.

9. Post session therapy

A good thing ? emotional release / wise counselling ? insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.

Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don?t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed defeat Kerry!!
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:00:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s something wrong about the subject line here… defeat Kerry?

who does that leave us with?

shrub?

burrrr!

Where can we get involved to ensure the terriorists are disappointed this nov.?
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:23:43 EDT

Volunteers needed to help beat Bush!

http://www.swingthestate.org/

Swing The State is a 100% volunteer-operated program for progressives of all
ages and their allies, who volunteer to do grassroots, electoral work during
the months leading up to the election.

We make it ultra-convenient, easy, and fun to get involved in the nationwide
effort to defeat Bush this November. Just tell us which states you’re
interested in, and when you have time to do it, and we’ll take care of the rest.

Whether you’re an experienced social activist, or someone new to politics
looking to make a difference, STS is a fun, social way to get involved.
Participants will work closely with state and local progressive organizations to build
power through grassroots organizing, all towards the ultimate goal of making a
big impact in the national elections of 2004.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 19, 2004 at 2:59:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My main ayahuasca experience has been in Santo Daime. The group singing
of beautiful hymns/chants in a ritual makes a safe enclosure to allow
difficult material to emerge without panic.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:27:57 -0700 “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
wrote:
Hi, I tried ayahuasca about 9 years ago, I’d been very curious since
reading Burroughs’ writings about Yage. Me and a friend paid 25
guildens(whatever that is now) for a bag of those big gel capsules.
I
first took 3 caps and after a little nausea started a beautiful
trip,
there were 3 of us in a warmly lit room but no-one could get a joint
together, there was skunk butter in the fridge though – very good
quality- and I ate a lot then took 2 or 3 more caps. Everything
was
heavenly – very euphoric until I started to feel like I was moving
around 10 miles per second. I also acquired a flame like vision
whenever I opened my eyes, I suppose you’re never 100% sure what
you’re getting sometimes and I ate a lot of weed but it was very
fast
– I would certainly do it again though being older and (a little)
wiser, I think you can order ayahuasca online and be assured what
you’re getting.Sjg

>From:   >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com  >To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com  >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine
therapy  >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:48:03 -0700  >  >It will be
interesting to see how you feel about ibogaine, if you try  >it.
What
was the setting for your ayahuasca experience? I have tried  >it
alone
but got the message to do it with people, and this has worked  >very
well for me.  >  >On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:43:06 -0700 “Sjonnygee
.”
wrote:  > >Hmmm……. I think ayahuasca had the edge on my sanity
when I did  > >some years ago, but different folks……. Sjg.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get  >secure
FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2  >  >Free, ultra-private
instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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Links:
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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed defeat Kerry!!
Date: September 19, 2004 at 2:41:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Where can we get involved to ensure the terriorists are disappointed this nov.?
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:23:43 EDT

Volunteers needed to help beat Bush!

http://www.swingthestate.org/

Swing The State is a 100% volunteer-operated program for progressives of all
ages and their allies, who volunteer to do grassroots, electoral work during
the months leading up to the election.

We make it ultra-convenient, easy, and fun to get involved in the nationwide
effort to defeat Bush this November. Just tell us which states you’re
interested in, and when you have time to do it, and we’ll take care of the rest.

Whether you’re an experienced social activist, or someone new to politics
looking to make a difference, STS is a fun, social way to get involved.
Participants will work closely with state and local progressive organizations to build
power through grassroots organizing, all towards the ultimate goal of making a
big impact in the national elections of 2004.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 2:31:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
Nothing can be owned because the individual sense of self is false.  Nothing/Everything is who we are.  Yes, there is personality, ego, but it is not necessary and it causes suffering to identify through the separate sense.  We are and a part of All That Is, and if we relax into This by not taking the contents of our minds so seriously, we will “begin” to have the existential sense of being a part of something bigger.  There’s no belief here and seeking anything including healing supports the lie.
Joy and peace are by-products of realizing that mind really doesn’t exist but is simply a stream of thoughts and feelings.  It’s important to feel feelings and not run away from them or for that matter overly embrace them.  At a certain point in process it’s appropriate not to follow the storylines within “mind”.  Disassociate from the contents of mind and relax more and more into the Moment.  Don’t take any thing with me.  Let go of any and all associations and what remains?  A sense of joy, rest, peace….i am born/die every moment.  It’s closer than our breadth.   It is Home.  “Blessed is he who begins at the beginning, and stays there”- gospel according to St. Thomas
It’s our birthright to enjoy identifying with a condition which is beyond time because it is really who we are.  Healing happens when the individual no longer identifies with the separate sense.  I don’t believe we have to polish our egos to the point of getting an “A”.  I think a C+ will do.  The universe is not so fucking relentless as to require any sembance of perfection.  A C+ will do and then “we” can get out of the way.  Relax at that point and the separate sense will automatically burn.  There is no where to go and nothing to do.  This is a process of unraveling and it takes doing nothing, leaning towards letting go and relaxing.

An opinion from another fool who seeked
and rode many horses in the name of
truth.
God help me ( hee,hee, ),

Francesco
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2004 18:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Hi Nick,

While I agree completely with the case where one unexpectedly gains a great deal with so called little intention, I would argue that intention can exist without one being consciously aware of its depth or without understanding that we actually do have the right intention as we may not be clear on what that all amounts to. (Classically we confuse our negative thoughts with who we are out of self hatred.)  In my book I think what I wrote here is born out by the story, the analysis and the insights.

Assuming you dump that last paragraph completely, for arguments sake. I can tell you this much. The completion of my healing is only working because I have the fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain in order to find what I seek and in doing so I am embraced more and more by the healing Eboga Spirit. This intention has manifested itself in a number of drastic changes I made to my life which come out during the story behind the books. I gave up pretty much all I had materially and emotionally and held onto the minimum. It was extremely painful but utterly necessary.

Hi Albert,

Personally, I have little intention of entering any part of any pain, and would regard this as a pretty healthy attitude really. If something hurts me, that’s life, but I certainly don’t seek it. If you go to iboga with the “fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain” then it is likely that this is what you will get. It’s called pain-seeking behaviour. The only meaningful thing that you can find with this attitude is that it hurts and that there are likely better things to seek than pain, such as, for instance, pleasure.

The whole notion that it is necessary to “feel pain” in order to heal is a misconception, imo. It develops because the expectation of pain in the mind and the fear of pain in the mind can limit behaviour. Yet, emotional pain is actually a very minor thing when it is actually felt in the body, and not simply being assumed to be present in the mind. This can be hard to believe, but with experience is revealed to be true.

Perhaps one can say that Eboga will give everyone something – as they say: the first taste of the Grail is free but the second one comes at a price, i.e., Intention manifested by action.

OF COURSE: Just because nothing may happen in a given session does not mean one has bad intention. But intention that brings us into a daily inner dialog as we unravel, will also reap reward in the session. There are many factors to consider, not least whether you use capsules or powder… … I include the idea of intention to empower, not to judge.

I dont analyse my intention. I just live it as best I can in my commitment to the process. Its what has kept me going.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

I except this is your experience and whatever you have done has worked for you. In my book I add that there is more than one way home. This I simply deduce from the laws of probability and the creative nature of the Universe.

However I do not agree when you say there is no possibility of escape from this state of unhealing. Nick I almost faught with therapists who tried to get me to believe the same and also told me to control the child in me.

I am not asking that you control any children in you. I am just pointing out that when you exist in the belief that it is necessary to do something to escape from yourself then this belief is what takes you away from simply being. To create the idea that you are unhealed is to simultaneously create the idea that there exists a state of “being healed.” This expectation for healing, followed by the behaviour undertaken to try and fulfil the expectation, is just another circular pattern little different from the addictive cycle.

Had I done so I would be perhaps now dead as I have undergone multiple serious abuse and personal isolation over many years and suffered very deep pain. I have also explored the world of belief that says nothing can be done except to accept.

I have in the past 6 years experienced real deep connected healing and self awareness resulting from 12 major sessions and over 30 mini sessions. I have seen each abuse slowly unravelled. I have gone from year to year deeper shocked by the truth of what I found and the deep pain it left me. This pain is stored in the body and slowly I let go of it through the time of integration. I have seen my life change incredibly because of my attitude. So something is working for me. I am also guided by the spiritual realm and keep a dream journal etc as I have received various instructions or confirmations this way.

You are experiencing change in your life. Me too! It’s great. But if you cling to this concept of “healing,” which we all probably believed in for a while and likely needed to, then it will just drag things down. I’m offering you an invitation to drop it. I did.

with love

Nick
BTW:

Pain is stored in the body emotionally, mentally (ego) and spiritually (soul).

Reality is about a balance between the ego and the soul and hence personal liberation in this life only comes through the healing of all parts. The ego is very important but it cannot be free until all the pain it suppresses is healed. I stand for freedom. And I work from the ground up unprejudiced and open to every possibility.

Dont believe me but this is what I believe and what I am experiencing.

I will say this though: It is F***King x 2 hard but not impossible??

never will be any possibility of escape from this

There is the question. I believe for me I am well on the way. But every soul is different and I cannot speak for everyone. Each path is different and each has their own relationship to God. I can only put my own experience across. And given the way Eboga has encouraged and inspired me endlessly in my writing I assume it agrees too with some of what I am writing – at least between the lines. What you say here reminds me of all the people I have known who kept telling me to settle down and get married before I really knew what I was looking for.

It certainly is difficult when we vehemently believe something. But it is not about blind belief. It is about faith first and foremost and with the proof of the pudding comes belief. Faith comes before Belief. My beliefs took 6 years to develop + a lifetime before. And, if there is nothing really to lose for someone in a miserable existence and all to gain, why not go for it? After my first session I had all the faith I needed to get started and maybe I should add another number now to my list:

The first session may give you the faith to do another.

With respect,

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 16 September 2004 14:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process

Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person?s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

Hi Lee,

I would certainly agree that intention is everything, but intention also develops naturally with awareness. Just taking ibogaine with very little awareness or intention can still catalyse massive change. It did for me in my first iboga experience. It’s great if you have the intention to heal, and I guess most people would not be drawn to use ibogaine were that not at least partially present, but to say it is needed is going too far.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

with love

Nick

2. Willingness to change:
Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has ? the ?I can have it all? mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ?all? really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.
There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.
When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming ? hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.
While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn?t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.
Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off ? years.
9. Post session therapy
A good thing ? emotional release / wise counselling ? insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.
Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don?t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 2:05:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 04:27:03 -0700 FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Is there any one who could tell me that what are the major deferencies
between Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry?

Their records during the Viet Nam war show some contrast. Mr. Bush avoided
the war by using family connections to get into the National Guard, and
there is no evidence that he actually fulfilled his duty in the Guard.
Mr. Kerry went to war in spite of such connections, earned medals for
heroism and the deep loyalty of the men he led, then came back and opposed
the war as leader of a veterans group.

The rest of their lives show further contrast: Mr. Bush was a drunkard
who tried various unsuccessful businesses, to some extent with the support
of the Saudi royal family due to long family connections via his family’s
participation in the oil business. Mr. Bush finally found some sort of
fundamentalist Christian religion and sobered up. Mr. Kerry as far as
I know has always been a career politician, and has been serving in the
Senate.

Mr. Bush seems to have limited intelligence, and a belief that he was
chosen by God to liberate the Islamic world and secure its oil supplies,
while giving up on civilized norms such as the Geneva Convention and
much of the US constitution. Mr. Bush has a great ability to socialize
and be forceful in advancing his belief in himself. Mr. Kerry seems to
have much less ability to be convincing and gives the sense that he is
opportunistic, but unlike Bush and all the architects of war in the present
government he actually knows what war is like.

USA is non-stop killing inocent and poor peoples in the third world
and while doing this Bush says “we are trying to bring democrasy to
Iraq.

One has to wonder if they are trying to create more enemies in order
to justify more power for themselves. Or it could be the natural hubris
of empire operating without intention.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:51:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2004 18:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Hi Nick,

While I agree completely with the case where one unexpectedly gains a great deal with so called little intention, I would argue that intention can exist without one being consciously aware of its depth or without understanding that we actually do have the right intention as we may not be clear on what that all amounts to. (Classically we confuse our negative thoughts with who we are out of self hatred.)  In my book I think what I wrote here is born out by the story, the analysis and the insights.

Assuming you dump that last paragraph completely, for arguments sake. I can tell you this much. The completion of my healing is only working because I have the fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain in order to find what I seek and in doing so I am embraced more and more by the healing Eboga Spirit. This intention has manifested itself in a number of drastic changes I made to my life which come out during the story behind the books. I gave up pretty much all I had materially and emotionally and held onto the minimum. It was extremely painful but utterly necessary.

Hi Albert,

Personally, I have little intention of entering any part of any pain, and would regard this as a pretty healthy attitude really. If something hurts me, that’s life, but I certainly don’t seek it. If you go to iboga with the “fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain” then it is likely that this is what you will get. It’s called pain-seeking behaviour. The only meaningful thing that you can find with this attitude is that it hurts and that there are likely better things to seek than pain, such as, for instance, pleasure.

The whole notion that it is necessary to “feel pain” in order to heal is a misconception, imo. It develops because the expectation of pain in the mind and the fear of pain in the mind can limit behaviour. Yet, emotional pain is actually a very minor thing when it is actually felt in the body, and not simply being assumed to be present in the mind. This can be hard to believe, but with experience is revealed to be true.

Perhaps one can say that Eboga will give everyone something – as they say: the first taste of the Grail is free but the second one comes at a price, i.e., Intention manifested by action.

OF COURSE: Just because nothing may happen in a given session does not mean one has bad intention. But intention that brings us into a daily inner dialog as we unravel, will also reap reward in the session. There are many factors to consider, not least whether you use capsules or powder… … I include the idea of intention to empower, not to judge.

I dont analyse my intention. I just live it as best I can in my commitment to the process. Its what has kept me going.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

I except this is your experience and whatever you have done has worked for you. In my book I add that there is more than one way home. This I simply deduce from the laws of probability and the creative nature of the Universe.

However I do not agree when you say there is no possibility of escape from this state of unhealing. Nick I almost faught with therapists who tried to get me to believe the same and also told me to control the child in me.

I am not asking that you control any children in you. I am just pointing out that when you exist in the belief that it is necessary to do something to escape from yourself then this belief is what takes you away from simply being. To create the idea that you are unhealed is to simultaneously create the idea that there exists a state of “being healed.” This expectation for healing, followed by the behaviour undertaken to try and fulfil the expectation, is just another circular pattern little different from the addictive cycle.

Had I done so I would be perhaps now dead as I have undergone multiple serious abuse and personal isolation over many years and suffered very deep pain. I have also explored the world of belief that says nothing can be done except to accept.

I have in the past 6 years experienced real deep connected healing and self awareness resulting from 12 major sessions and over 30 mini sessions. I have seen each abuse slowly unravelled. I have gone from year to year deeper shocked by the truth of what I found and the deep pain it left me. This pain is stored in the body and slowly I let go of it through the time of integration. I have seen my life change incredibly because of my attitude. So something is working for me. I am also guided by the spiritual realm and keep a dream journal etc as I have received various instructions or confirmations this way.

You are experiencing change in your life. Me too! It’s great. But if you cling to this concept of “healing,” which we all probably believed in for a while and likely needed to, then it will just drag things down. I’m offering you an invitation to drop it. I did.

with love

Nick
BTW:

Pain is stored in the body emotionally, mentally (ego) and spiritually (soul).

Reality is about a balance between the ego and the soul and hence personal liberation in this life only comes through the healing of all parts. The ego is very important but it cannot be free until all the pain it suppresses is healed. I stand for freedom. And I work from the ground up unprejudiced and open to every possibility.

Dont believe me but this is what I believe and what I am experiencing.

I will say this though: It is F***King x 2 hard but not impossible……

never will be any possibility of escape from this

There is the question. I believe for me I am well on the way. But every soul is different and I cannot speak for everyone. Each path is different and each has their own relationship to God. I can only put my own experience across. And given the way Eboga has encouraged and inspired me endlessly in my writing I assume it agrees too with some of what I am writing – at least between the lines. What you say here reminds me of all the people I have known who kept telling me to settle down and get married before I really knew what I was looking for.

It certainly is difficult when we vehemently believe something. But it is not about blind belief. It is about faith first and foremost and with the proof of the pudding comes belief. Faith comes before Belief. My beliefs took 6 years to develop + a lifetime before. And, if there is nothing really to lose for someone in a miserable existence and all to gain, why not go for it? After my first session I had all the faith I needed to get started and maybe I should add another number now to my list:

The first session may give you the faith to do another.

With respect,

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 16 September 2004 14:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process

Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person’s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

Hi Lee,

I would certainly agree that intention is everything, but intention also develops naturally with awareness. Just taking ibogaine with very little awareness or intention can still catalyse massive change. It did for me in my first iboga experience. It’s great if you have the intention to heal, and I guess most people would not be drawn to use ibogaine were that not at least partially present, but to say it is needed is going too far.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

with love

Nick

2. Willingness to change:
Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has – the ‘I can have it all’ mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ‘all’ really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.
There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.
When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming – hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.
While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn’t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.
Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off – years.
9. Post session therapy
A good thing – emotional release / wise counselling – insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.
Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don’t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 19, 2004 at 11:15:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/04 2:48:47 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

I wasn’t running down therapy so much as the idea of therapy. Personally,
I love therapy. I work as a therapist. It’s great to be able to replace
self-destructive behaviour will self-affirming behaviour. But there is
a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking
healing is the same as all it was doing seeking drugs – trying to move
away from where it is. And that this is actually pointless. For sure you
usually
need to do the groups do get this awareness.

Very well put Nick,

The behavioral pattern of seeking healing.  Something to be aware of.

Howard

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 10:29:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason I wanted to say that I think all of us feel this
way even years after, the why am I even bothering
damned if you do and damned if you don’t  think of
what your life was like right before you did ibogaine.
Not the good parts of being high or the positive
things it gave you, but think about right before you
did ibogaine and what it was like. That always works
and puts everything back into black and white for me
really fast! 🙂 It might not do it for you because I
don’t know how bad things were, but that trick helps
me a lot.

Hi Lee, I’m not sure how I feel about everything you
have to say because i’m not carefully taking the time
to think about every little piece of your very long
posts. The reason I never get further into them is I
think perfectly written out by Frank I think in one
sentence it was, ‘the ego can ride any horse’ that was
perfect 🙂

I think you’re a smart guy who means well, which
describes so many people here, but what I’ve noticed
over the years I’ve been here is that I think almost
all, or all (but I don’t want to make a huge sweeping
statement which may be wrong, so I’m sticking with
almost all 😉 of the people here who have worked with
ibogaine for a long time, get more mellow and less
know it all as time goes by, which was the ‘the more I
learn the less i know’ conversation.

That includes Frank, Eric, Sara, Patrick, Howard,
Nick, I think everyone here who really knows ibogaine.
They’re all different people and go off about
different things at times, but from reading your site
and what you say, it seems alot like this huge
monument to your ego. Please understand I’m not
disrespecting you and I think you mean well, like
anyone who works with ibogaine, except it’s almost
like the mirror image of mindvox, where other people
say great things about it and then Patrick tears it
down and makes fun of himself and everything else.
Your biography fills up pages, without every really
saying anything except you ran all over the place and
then did ibogaine.

Your whole attitude is just very…. off-putting, even
your last message, like you have some great big truth
that everyone has been waiting for, except I don’t
somehow see you applying it to yourself I admit I
don’t know you at all and you’re obviously a smart
guy, but you just seem very arrogant and full of
yourself, which is not to say that any of the people I
mentioned before aren’t sometimes arrogant or argue,
but with you it is like one long winded same thing.

Vector made fun of everyone here I think in a nice way
and welcomed you as another messianic author who
self-published books on ibogaine, but really that is a
lot what it seems like. Your site is so full of, I
won’t say it. “The Eboga Process,”(TM) you wrote that
and you don’t look like you understand how funny that
is.

Sorry but I somehow don’t see whatever it is that
you’ve done as some goal that anybody wants to reach.
You might want to work on yourself a little bit before
self-publishing another 5 books in your Eboga Healing
Process(TM). I’m sorry, I can’t read that without
cracking up, because Patrick does that all the time
with the TM and R’s, except he’s joking, you’re really
not. This whole place is filled with people who have
been working with ibogaine for years or decades, I
don’t think you can name one person who isn’t here,
who knows about ibogaine and not one of them is
anywhere near as full of themselves as you.

Marc Emery (how is marc?) is humble compared to you! I
don’t think I ever thought I would see that! 😉

Carla B

— Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Jason,

Its unfortunate if I come across as believing I have
all the answers. I don’t and I can only pass on what
I have learned through my own set of experiences.
Enthusiasm for something that works does not equal
arrogance for anything else.

However I do feel passionately that I have learned a
great deal in my own area of interest and I back
that up with actual tangible results.

There is a saying, “Healer heal thyself” and that I
believe should be the the objective of all healers.
Thats where real knowledge comes.

In my work I can stand over certain ideas with
almost 100% certainty as I have seen the phenomenon
within myself. Other ideas I put forward as ideas in
motion – models to build upon. And yet others I have
yet to explore.

The points I offered on the Healing Process are my
observations as they occured in my use of Eboga. I
have no qualms in saying I believe these phenomena
will be repeatable for a large number of people. Yet
again maybe it is someones Soul path to
self-destruct. Well, I dont go there in judging
anybody’s individual program. Thats above my head.

I offer my ideas to enlarge the program and move
beyond the present point. Thats how systems evolve
and grow but only a fool would suggest anything is
set in cement.

What I have come up with is a solid departure point
and if someone refutes my arguments in order to
return to the status quo (to hold onto an existing
belief – as you rightly point out) I will fight them
tooth and nail in the same way I would oppose
burning witches at the stake. That is not to say my
views are not unchangeable. In any case: Its not the
view that counts but what it can do for you.

Hence why I am writing books with stories in them so
that at some level what I have to say can be put
into perspective and considered reasonable or not.
Eboga is about Self Knowledge – not about learning
from a book.

If you read my previous post you will see I agree
with you on your view of how eager we can become
about something that works. And in my writing I
repeatedly say there is more than one way. But if I
have found a path that I know very well, then I will
withstand any effort to block the path to others
through uninformed argument and I will trumpet its
existence to the world and the millions suffering
for lack of that knowledge.

On another note would you be kind enough to put
forward any part of what I have wrote that bears out
your point that I think I have all the answers? It
would be good for me to be enlightened so I dont
make this mistake repeatedly.

Nice to hear from you & thanks for being so honest.

Lee

BTW relapse into addiction is not a reflection of
where one is on the healing program. Its a symptom
of the pain and may very well be the last thing to
go on the healing journey. Be careful to love
yourself and not mix up intention with
self-flagellation.

Also, abandonment is a major issue. There are many
issues and each one is dealth with in its own good
time. There is no one single profile of issues that
we all fit.

_______________________________
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 8:42:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry Sandy I confused your name with another post I was reading.

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Sandy,

Its unfortunate if I come across as believing I have all the answers. I don’t and I can only pass on what I have learned through my own set of experiences. Enthusiasm for something that works does not equal arrogance for anything else.

However I do feel passionately that I have learned a great deal in my own area of interest and I back that up with actual tangible results.

There is a saying, “Healer heal thyself” and that I believe should be the the objective of all healers. Thats where real knowledge comes.

In my work I can stand over certain ideas with almost 100% certainty as I have seen the phenomenon within myself. Other ideas I put forward as ideas in motion – models to build upon. And yet others I have yet to explore.

The points I offered on the Healing Process are my observations as they occured in my use of Eboga. I have no qualms in saying I believe these phenomena will be repeatable for a large number of people. Yet again maybe it is someones Soul path to self-destruct. Well, I dont go there in judging anybody’s individual program. Thats above my head.

I offer my ideas to enlarge the program and move beyond the present point. Thats how systems evolve and grow but only a fool would suggest anything is set in cement.

What I have come up with is a solid departure point and if someone refutes my arguments in order to return to the status quo (to hold onto an existing belief – as you rightly point out) I will fight them tooth and nail in the same way I would oppose burning witches at the stake. That is not to say my views are not unchangeable. In any case: Its not the view that counts but what it can do for you.

Hence why I am writing books with stories in them so that at some level what I have to say can be put into perspective and considered reasonable or not. Eboga is about Self Knowledge – not about learning from a book.

If you read my previous post you will see I agree with you on your view of how eager we can become about something that works. And in my writing I repeatedly say there is more than one way. But if I have found a path that I know very well, then I will withstand any effort to block the path to others through uninformed argument and I will trumpet its existence to the world and the millions suffering for lack of that knowledge.

On another note would you be kind enough to put forward any part of what I have wrote that bears out your point that I think I have all the answers? It would be good for me to be enlightened so I dont make this mistake repeatedly.

Nice to hear from you & thanks for being so honest.

Lee

BTW relapse into addiction is not a reflection of where one is on the healing program. Its a symptom of the pain and may very well be the last thing to go on the healing journey. Be careful to love yourself and not mix up intention with self-flagellation.

Also, abandonment is a major issue. There are many issues and each one is dealth with in its own good time. There is no one single profile of issues that we all fit.
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Lee, your book sounds fascinating and I can’t wait to read it.  I am especially thinking about trying my own experiments with low-dose therapy since I continue to relapse.  Problem is, I don’t really even want to quit relapsing at this time, so perhaps my intention is not really right yet.
One other comment I feel like making, tho, is that when a person finds something that profoundly affects them for the better, we all seem to do the same thing – assume that what works for me, is the right answer for you.  12 step programs assume this, religions do this, and individuals most definitely do this, (myself included.)  I do notice in myself, tho, that when someone, anyone, thinks they “know” what I need, I am probably LESS likely to listen to them or try what they say.
I am only bringing this up because, even tho your book and ideas intrigue me, Lee, it feels like you come across as if you have all the answers regarding “healing.”  However, certainly I don’t mean to be attacking you personally as pretty much all of us do the same thing – it just strikes me what a turn off I find it to be no matter how “right” the person’s ideas may truly be.
The other idea that all or most addicts have an “issue” regarding abandonment by the same-sex parent, I put in that same category as one problem/one answer.  It doesn’t fit for me, and I suspect that if I gathered up 100 people at random with or without addictions, a large percentage would have abandonment issues with parents since our world’s parenting in general is often pretty poor.
So – those are some of my two cent ideas… it’s all very interesting, tho, and I can’t wait for Callie to have a turn at ibogaine!
Best wishes to all,  Sandy

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] medical heroin – known as diamorphine
Date: September 19, 2004 at 8:33:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Martin Bright, home affairs editor

Sunday September 19, 2004

The Observer

Drugs charities have accused the government of abandoning plans to set up a network of doctors prescribing pure heroin to addicts.

Two years ago, the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, announced that the number of licences issued to GPs entitled to prescribe heroin should be increased from less than 50 to 1,500 in an attempt to take the supply of the drug out of the hands of criminals.

The move was applauded by drugs organisations, which said the use of medical heroin – known as diamorphine – would help addicts control their chaotic lifestyle and stop them being sucked into crime to support their habit.

But new Home Office figures show that the number of prescribing doctors has barely doubled. The National Treatment Agency, the government body responsible for dealing with addiction, confirmed that, by March of this year, only 123 doctors were licenced to prescribe medical heroin.

The majority of Britain’s GPs see at least one addict a month and a quarter treat heroin or cocaine addicts, but only a tiny minority are able to use heroin itself during treatment and most use the heroin substitute methadone.

The charity Drugscope said that the move towards prescribing heroin was derailed by the publicity surrounding Harold Shipman, the GP who murdered at least 215 of his patients using diamorphine. Shipman was jailed for life in 2000, but the inquiry into the case, led by Dame Janet Smith, has had a lasting impact on the medical profession.

Smith’s fourth report, published in July, called for stricter controls to avoid the kind of stockpiling that allowed Shipman to build up his supply.

The debate over prescribing will be severely tested later this year by the investigation by the General Medical Council into seven doctors at the Stapleford clinic, a private treatment centre for addicts. The six men and one woman worked in centres in Belgravia, London and Stapleford Tawney, Essex and are charged with ‘excessive and improper’ prescribing.

The centre is alleged to have kept patients on lengthy courses of methadone, rather than cutting the supply sharply as recommended by NHS guide lines. The defendants include Dr Colin Brewer, the founder of the centre, who is recognised as an international expert in the field.

The plans to set up the network of prescribing GPs came after a Home Affairs Select Committee report found that drug misuse by Britain’s 250,000 heroin addicts was fuelling drug crime worth £20 billion a year. The committee also recommended establishing safe ‘shooting galleries’ for addicts. But these have also failed to take off after councils failed to persuade residents that they would encourage addicts off the streets.

Drugscope spokeswoman Natasha Vromen said: ‘These figures are disappointing. There were great hopes that the government and doctors were developing a drugs policy where the health aspects were brought to the fore. Unfortunately, it is now dominated by the crime agenda.’

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 19, 2004 at 7:51:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason,

Its unfortunate if I come across as believing I have all the answers. I don’t and I can only pass on what I have learned through my own set of experiences. Enthusiasm for something that works does not equal arrogance for anything else.

However I do feel passionately that I have learned a great deal in my own area of interest and I back that up with actual tangible results.

There is a saying, “Healer heal thyself” and that I believe should be the the objective of all healers. Thats where real knowledge comes.

In my work I can stand over certain ideas with almost 100% certainty as I have seen the phenomenon within myself. Other ideas I put forward as ideas in motion – models to build upon. And yet others I have yet to explore.

The points I offered on the Healing Process are my observations as they occured in my use of Eboga. I have no qualms in saying I believe these phenomena will be repeatable for a large number of people. Yet again maybe it is someones Soul path to self-destruct. Well, I dont go there in judging anybody’s individual program. Thats above my head.

I offer my ideas to enlarge the program and move beyond the present point. Thats how systems evolve and grow but only a fool would suggest anything is set in cement.

What I have come up with is a solid departure point and if someone refutes my arguments in order to return to the status quo (to hold onto an existing belief – as you rightly point out) I will fight them tooth and nail in the same way I would oppose burning witches at the stake. That is not to say my views are not unchangeable. In any case: Its not the view that counts but what it can do for you.

Hence why I am writing books with stories in them so that at some level what I have to say can be put into perspective and considered reasonable or not. Eboga is about Self Knowledge – not about learning from a book.

If you read my previous post you will see I agree with you on your view of how eager we can become about something that works. And in my writing I repeatedly say there is more than one way. But if I have found a path that I know very well, then I will withstand any effort to block the path to others through uninformed argument and I will trumpet its existence to the world and the millions suffering for lack of that knowledge.

On another note would you be kind enough to put forward any part of what I have wrote that bears out your point that I think I have all the answers? It would be good for me to be enlightened so I dont make this mistake repeatedly.

Nice to hear from you & thanks for being so honest.

Lee

BTW relapse into addiction is not a reflection of where one is on the healing program. Its a symptom of the pain and may very well be the last thing to go on the healing journey. Be careful to love yourself and not mix up intention with self-flagellation.

Also, abandonment is a major issue. There are many issues and each one is dealth with in its own good time. There is no one single profile of issues that we all fit.
booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Lee, your book sounds fascinating and I can’t wait to read it.  I am especially thinking about trying my own experiments with low-dose therapy since I continue to relapse.  Problem is, I don’t really even want to quit relapsing at this time, so perhaps my intention is not really right yet.
One other comment I feel like making, tho, is that when a person finds something that profoundly affects them for the better, we all seem to do the same thing – assume that what works for me, is the right answer for you.  12 step programs assume this, religions do this, and individuals most definitely do this, (myself included.)  I do notice in myself, tho, that when someone, anyone, thinks they “know” what I need, I am probably LESS likely to listen to them or try what they say.
I am only bringing this up because, even tho your book and ideas intrigue me, Lee, it feels like you come across as if you have all the answers regarding “healing.”  However, certainly I don’t mean to be attacking you personally as pretty much all of us do the same thing – it just strikes me what a turn off I find it to be no matter how “right” the person’s ideas may truly be.
The other idea that all or most addicts have an “issue” regarding abandonment by the same-sex parent, I put in that same category as one problem/one answer.  It doesn’t fit for me, and I suspect that if I gathered up 100 people at random with or without addictions, a large percentage would have abandonment issues with parents since our world’s parenting in general is often pretty poor.
So – those are some of my two cent ideas… it’s all very interesting, tho, and I can’t wait for Callie to have a turn at ibogaine!
Best wishes to all,  Sandy

Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Falling Bombs; Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush
Date: September 19, 2004 at 7:27:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Friends

Is there any one who could tell me that what are the major deferencies
between Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry?

USA is non-stop killing inocent and poor peoples in the third world and
while doing this Bush says “we are trying to bring democrasy to Iraq.

(He said it for afghanistan before and do you think is there any democrasy
in there now?) Who created psyhco killer Kaide and mad blood sucker Osama
Bin Ladin againest to Russia? And who is killing the inocent poor people
instead of Al Kaide?

And Vietnam veteran Keryy will make world better place to live if he can win
the election?

If you could possible to look to elections with the eye of thirld world
citizen while you are hearing falling bombs…

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed

In a message dated 9/18/04 11:06:48 PM, bchloej@hotmail.com writes:

<< So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not
me, nor any in my household!!!!! >>

Not taken for granted at all. >
Howard

better safe then to take anything for granted anyways
n

0neLINEwit#440432948

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 19, 2004 at 6:55:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Faith, you really are to be commended for showing the love and being willing to do what it takes to help your son. You remind me of my mother. I can’t remember you talking about your own well being once during your quest here for the Ibogaine. Whether or not you go to Canada he is fortunate to have you on his side.     Randy

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 19, 2004 at 4:40:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/18/04 11:06:48 PM, bchloej@hotmail.com writes:

<< So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not
me, nor any in my household!!!!! >>

Not taken for granted at all. >
Howard

better safe then to take anything for granted anyways
n

0neLINEwit#440432948

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:47:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com [mailto:UUSEAN@aol.com]
Sent: 18 September 2004 03:31
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

In a message dated 9/16/04 10:28:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

There no meaningful difference between, say,
addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the awareness of
what it’s like to be an addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But
you’re still left facing the same shit at the end of the day.<

Being in therapy right now I really have to disagree, at least in my case.  90% of time when I running with coke and dope, I was on auto pilot.  In some ways I had no more understanding of why I was getting high than anyone else.  If pressed I would tell you, “because it feels SO DAMN GOOD.”

In therapy I am really getting a grasp on the idea that in my case my addiction was in a sense protecting me from feeling very terrifying feelings.  I really never knew that.
Eight weeks of therapy later, I can really see that now.  Fucked up, self destructive, yes, but a part of me really felt it was doing it’s job by keeping me high and doing what it took to stay that way.

This is in no way saying that what is true for me is true anyone else though. But after a three day run, I wasn’t looking at much.  Except how the hell to get more.:)

Sean

Hi Sean,

I wasn’t running down therapy so much as the idea of therapy. Personally, I love therapy. I work as a therapist. It’s great to be able to replace self-destructive behaviour will self-affirming behaviour. But there is a point where the mind does start to get that all it’s doing in seeking healing is the same as all it was doing seeking drugs – trying to move away from where it is. And that this is actually pointless. For sure you usually need to do the groups do get this awareness.

with love

Nick

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 19, 2004 at 3:25:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some people grow up in  poverty with good family life, only the drugs and prostitution is part of the street life where they grow up,
When someone is a kid ,and  drugs are all around, is it very much possible that they will be pushed to try them.
When the personality isn’t that strong or not educated enough about drugs, then they probably just fall into it, as a social thing they do with their friends.
The parents who are probably hard working people don’t have the time to control their kids and their doing.
The kids  feel that the parents don’t care , because they always work, having a job and keeping up with good family life is hard for most people,
The need to consume grow bigger as the expectation to perform grow bigger. when a person sees that their family show disappointment from not performing
Up to those expectations, the need to escape those feelings will make a person consume more , drugs or food or what ever makes them forget the disappointments.

This is just another reason, why a person will be consuming drugs.

Sara

Van: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 19 september 2004 5:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..

Hi,
      I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
                                                                                                            f.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 19, 2004 at 1:33:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beautifully put.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:00:15 -0700 ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com wrote:
The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 19, 2004 at 12:37:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed

So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not me,
nor
any in my household!!!!!

I don’t even know who Kerry is?

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 19, 2004 at 12:36:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/18/2004 11:07:08 PM Central Daylight Time, bchloej@hotmail.com writes:
So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not me, nor
any in my household!!!!!

No, not at all!
You can encourage folks to volunteer for Bush.
Thank God we are free to say who we hope will be elected.
We are very lucky to be able to choose our leader.
I hope that everyone will vote no matter who they hope will be elected. I am always very sad when I hear the percentage of registered voters who turn out. In my opinion at least 90% of citizens registered should actually vote. EVERYONE of age should register themselves also.
So many times I have eavesdropped or participated in conversations where one person was very opinionated about how poor our senators or President is doing only to find out that they didn’t even vote. They usually say something to this effect, “Hell, why should I vote, my vote wouldn’t count.” That pisses me off so much!
For one, if you don’t vote, don’t complain about the state of the Nation. Secondly, ALL the votes count!
Proud to be free and an American citizen!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 19, 2004 at 12:28:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/18/04 11:06:48 PM, bchloej@hotmail.com writes:

<< So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not me,
nor

any in my household!!!!! >>

Not taken for granted at all. Do you want to discuss the matter or shall we
just let it go?  I don’t mind discussion but, don’t want to disrupt the list
either.  Cheers.

Howard

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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 19, 2004 at 12:04:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So is it taken for granted everyone on this list is for Kerry?  Not me, nor any in my household!!!!!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:53:36 EDT

In a message dated 9/18/2004 1:25:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

Volunteers needed to help beat Bush!

Great idea to post that here Howard!
We do have to get Bush out of the White House!
Callie

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 18, 2004 at 10:53:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply

Hi Sandy,
I really don’t have any vested interest in the abandonment of same sex parent issue being true.  What happened was, a long time ibogaine provider located in your country trained me to assist in treatments.  During our time together he reiterated what he had seen time and again during his first 6 years doing the work.  So from the onset i was able to see if this applied and it did so dramatically in between 8 to 9 out of 10 people who came my way.  And when a person finds a same sex therapist with the key ingredient of having admiration and respect towards him or her, something really happens which creates the healing.  The catch is it appears there is a lot of resistance because of a lack of trust in finding a therapist who fits the bill.  Believe me, if i continue this work during the next 6 years,  and during the next 700 sessions the opposite holds true  or something else entirely, i’ll speak of it.  I just want to share what’s working and after spending hours a day on the phone with people and their families, this is what i’ve seen. I haven’t conducted a study of a random selection of 100 people but i would imagine the issue in question would be closer 50-50 same and opposite sex.

Francesco

Hello Francesco,
I don’t understand what you mean by,”same sex therapist”
I assume you mean if you are a male see a male therapist,a female see a female therapist.If this is the case,why
in your experience is this so.
Or do you mean if you did not have a mother see a female therapist?
Smiles Jasen (Aus)

 

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] a small group of primal screamers do sessions..
Date: September 18, 2004 at 11:00:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
I had a string of sessions of people who were staunch advocates of primal therapy.  Interestingly, all six people threw up constantly during their time with ibogaine.  It was as if they needed to, so as to help break down the conceptual framework as to how they perceived the new information should come forth, i.e. the form it “should” be received.  These were one of the many times i so much appreciated ibogaine’s uncanny capacity to give people what is needed and not necessarily wanted.  They were secure in their belief that primal was the way, and ibogaine, with their collaboration confused the shit out of them.  A good portion of their process had to do with the why’s and how’s they managed to created a false sense of self around defining themselves as “primal screamers”.  The ego can ride any horse and this includes ibogaine.
f.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 18, 2004 at 10:35:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sandy,
I really don’t have any vested interest in the abandonment of same sex parent issue being true.  What happened was, a long time ibogaine provider located in your country trained me to assist in treatments.  During our time together he reiterated what he had seen time and again during his first 6 years doing the work.  So from the onset i was able to see if this applied and it did so dramatically in between 8 to 9 out of 10 people who came my way.  And when a person finds a same sex therapist with the key ingredient of having admiration and respect towards him or her, something really happens which creates the healing.  The catch is it appears there is a lot of resistance because of a lack of trust in finding a therapist who fits the bill.  Believe me, if i continue this work during the next 6 years,  and during the next 700 sessions the opposite holds true  or something else entirely, i’ll speak of it.  I just want to share what’s working and after spending hours a day on the phone with people and their families, this is what i’ve seen. I haven’t conducted a study of a random selection of 100 people but i would imagine the issue in question would be closer 50-50 same and opposite sex.

Francesco

On Sat Sep 18 17:01 , ‘booker w’ <swbooker@hotmail.com> sent:

Lee, your book sounds fascinating and I can’t wait to read it.  I am especially thinking about trying my own experiments with low-dose therapy since I continue to relapse.  Problem is, I don’t really even want to quit relapsing at this time, so perhaps my intention is not really right yet.
One other comment I feel like making, tho, is that when a person finds something that profoundly affects them for the better, we all seem to do the same thing – assume that what works for me, is the right answer for you.  12 step programs assume this, religions do this, and individuals most definitely do this, (myself included.)  I do notice in myself, tho, that when someone, anyone, thinks they “know” what I need, I am probably LESS likely to listen to them or try what they say.
I am only bringing this up because, even tho your book and ideas intrigue me, Lee, it feels like you come across as if you have all the answers regarding “healing.”  However, certainly I don’t mean to be attacking you personally as pretty much all of us do the same thing – it just strikes me what a turn off I find it to be no matter how “right” the person’s ideas may truly be.
The other idea that all or most addicts have an “issue” regarding abandonment by the same-sex parent, I put in that same category as one problem/one answer.  It doesn’t fit for me, and I suspect that if I gathered up 100 people at random with or without addictions, a large percentage would have abandonment issues with parents since our world’s parenting in general is often pretty poor.
So – those are some of my two cent ideas… it’s all very interesting, tho, and I can’t wait for Callie to have a turn at ibogaine!
Best wishes to all,  Sandy

Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 18, 2004 at 5:01:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee, your book sounds fascinating and I can’t wait to read it.  I am especially thinking about trying my own experiments with low-dose therapy since I continue to relapse.  Problem is, I don’t really even want to quit relapsing at this time, so perhaps my intention is not really right yet.
One other comment I feel like making, tho, is that when a person finds something that profoundly affects them for the better, we all seem to do the same thing – assume that what works for me, is the right answer for you.  12 step programs assume this, religions do this, and individuals most definitely do this, (myself included.)  I do notice in myself, tho, that when someone, anyone, thinks they “know” what I need, I am probably LESS likely to listen to them or try what they say.
I am only bringing this up because, even tho your book and ideas intrigue me, Lee, it feels like you come across as if you have all the answers regarding “healing.”  However, certainly I don’t mean to be attacking you personally as pretty much all of us do the same thing – it just strikes me what a turn off I find it to be no matter how “right” the person’s ideas may truly be.
The other idea that all or most addicts have an “issue” regarding abandonment by the same-sex parent, I put in that same category as one problem/one answer.  It doesn’t fit for me, and I suspect that if I gathered up 100 people at random with or without addictions, a large percentage would have abandonment issues with parents since our world’s parenting in general is often pretty poor.
So – those are some of my two cent ideas… it’s all very interesting, tho, and I can’t wait for Callie to have a turn at ibogaine!
Best wishes to all,  Sandy

Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 18, 2004 at 4:53:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/18/2004 1:25:09 PM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
Volunteers needed to help beat Bush!

Great idea to post that here Howard!
We do have to get Bush out of the White House!
Callie

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] plywood
Date: September 18, 2004 at 3:50:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

keep fighting brother.

n

Thank you N.  What is this day 18?  The road starts where my feet are is where I am currently. 



———————–=[/
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 18, 2004 at 2:38:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If only I could rig American elections, ‘anybody spare a bullet ?

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed

>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:23:43 EDT

>

>Volunteers needed to help beat Bush!

>

>http://www.swingthestate.org/

>

>Swing The State is a 100% volunteer-operated program for progressives of all

>ages and their allies, who volunteer to do grassroots, electoral work during

>the months leading up to the election.

>

>We make it ultra-convenient, easy, and fun to get involved in the nationwide

>effort to defeat Bush this November. Just tell us which states you’re

>interested in, and when you have time to do it, and we’ll take care of the rest.

>

>Whether you’re an experienced social activist, or someone new to politics

>looking to make a difference, STS is a fun, social way to get involved.

>Participants will work closely with state and local progressive organizations to build

>power through grassroots organizing, all towards the ultimate goal of making a

>big impact in the national elections of 2004.

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

Faster than e-mail, more discreet than a phone call and best of all it’s free – download MSN Messenger today! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Insanity
Date: September 18, 2004 at 2:34:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have heard it said in the field of addiction treatment that the definition of insanity is; – ‘ doing the same thing over and over again and expecting  different results. ‘
I am insane……Sjonny.

Faster than e-mail, more discreet than a phone call and best of all it’s free – download MSN Messenger today! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 18, 2004 at 2:32:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jason,

I just wanted to say that I totally relate to you.  I’m trying to quit H at the moment-I’m on Subutex but I still cant stop doing it.  “I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.  I feel weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel unreliable without them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.  I don’t know how to act without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.”  Yes yes yes!  Thanks for posting this-I realise i’m not alone and I maybe can actually beat this.  You’re an inspiration!  I really hope your struggles pay off soon and it all gets easier.

Thanks again,
much love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Jason Bursey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:16 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz

I had insomnia like crazy last night.  I was really tired, not just physically, but would just lay there getting frustrated at my inability to remember how to fall asleep.  I woke up a few hours ago and I feel a large weight…

After trying to ask “what is trying to happen here”, I remembered talking with a family member about an event that happened a couple of months ago that was apparantly allot bigger then I remembered.  Passed out in p0ol, no heartbeat or breathing for a few minutes, friends CPRed me back, but not concious.  At the hospital I remained in a coma for 4 days.  I learned last night that the doctors were telling all my family that chances of making it back are unlikely, and that if I did, I would likely have brain damage, etc.
When I came out of the coma, I had tubes out of every hole and tubes in new holes they pricked.

So anyways, I’m talking to this family member last night and the look in her eyes…she said, “it was a miracle, a real miracle.  You were charming and light hearted and seemed to be without sickness” (opioid sickness).  “But then something changed and it came back.”  She said this with this heavyness, hard to explain.  Like “I thought it was over but, sigh, it came back” type look.

I realized after thinking last night that they tell me I was given decent amounts of IV morphine when I came out but that was cut off after a couple of days.

I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.  I feel weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel unreliable without them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.  I don’t know how to act without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.

Yes, things are getting better, but it is happening sooo ssslllooowwwly that I sometimes wonder if I would be better off, you know?

Then, I think about the details of what using opioids would mean in our current society (illegal heroin or “legal” methadone).  And the human manipulation that is attached to that.

That is the paradox.  Damned if you do.  Damned if you don’t.

I guess it comes down to faith in my own abilities without opioids.

Fatigue gets old, real old.

How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally because of your inability to be strong?

I’m feeling a bit like a burnout right now.

Anyways, thanks for reading me whine I guess.  I wonder if sending this is healthy or unhealthy.  Who knows.

Re: questions (more I learn the less I know[so true]); I’m reminded of that fixx song ‘one thing leads to another’

Re: aftercare?  why assume what is true for one is true for all?

Re: “wisdom” cut teeth?, umm yeah, that hurts.

Re: right now?  I think I’m going to go watch VG’s new movie; going with the chick who turned me on to heroin, but has since kicked and is going to school to be a nurse.  She is good people, and more importantly, she is real people.

Oh and if you don’t post but only listen…./I probably shouldn’t say.
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD volunteers needed
Date: September 18, 2004 at 2:23:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Volunteers needed to help beat Bush!

http://www.swingthestate.org/

Swing The State is a 100% volunteer-operated program for progressives of all
ages and their allies, who volunteer to do grassroots, electoral work during
the months leading up to the election.

We make it ultra-convenient, easy, and fun to get involved in the nationwide
effort to defeat Bush this November. Just tell us which states you’re
interested in, and when you have time to do it, and we’ll take care of the rest.

Whether you’re an experienced social activist, or someone new to politics
looking to make a difference, STS is a fun, social way to get involved.
Participants will work closely with state and local progressive organizations to build
power through grassroots organizing, all towards the ultimate goal of making a
big impact in the national elections of 2004.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Eric
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:43:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry.  This was for Beatriz, in Brasil who asked me to correspond with her. I’d love to meet up with her and Frank as well.
Eric

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:39:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We are also having real informal meetings where we basically just hang and
get to know each other.  No facilitator, usually in a park.  At least at
first.  Falafel seems to be the food of choice afterwards.<

this free and informal meet is the one I meant I’d try to make it to next
week Sean.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla

hi Preston and other NYC City ibonoaughts,

We are also having real informal meetings where we basically just hang and
get to know each other.  No facilitator, usually in a park.  At least at
first.  Falafel seems to be the food of choice afterwards.

It really was amazing the first time I hung out with four other people who
had experienced ibogaine.  Interesting too, hearing the differences in
experiences from a person treated in say Mexico from person treated in
Holland.

There will be a “formal” group meeting next Friday with Barbara Judd.  But
if that is a real turnoff, the informal get together are real community
building too…maybe even more so in some ways.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Eric
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:30:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
Love to come and do a few sessions and train people to carry on.
Eric

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:30:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Faith, if you are trying to help people who want to get clean, bless you  – it’s just a risky ‘thing’ to do if you aren’t in someway qualified like some of the providers you can maybe find here. …… Sjonny.

>From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:07:45 +0000

>

>True, but I was getting it for my son.  He has used it once,

>unsuccessfully–but no allergic reactions.  And, he’s very healthy.

>He probably threw alot of it up.  But, I’m considering stopping

>payment and cancelling the order.

>

>

>>From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>

>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

>>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:04:44 +0100

>>

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s

>FREE!

>hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

><< message3.txt >>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

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>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:21:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/18/2004 12:00:14 PM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally
>>because of your inability to be strong?

I may be wrong here but I think I know what Jason is saying.
When I do not have opiates I am unable to give anything to anybody and that includes support, love, attention, honesty etc. All I can think of is getting myself to feeling better. And unless you have an unlimited supply of opiates available or laying around you have to worry about where and how you are going to obtain more to keep this good feeling going.
That is the main reason I allowed my children to stay with their Dad when we divorced. I knew that the ‘chase’ for dope was on everyday and did not want them to be subjected to all the shit I had to do to maintain myself. They would’ve seen or heard things kids should not have to worry about.
Like I said this is only the way I interpret what Jason is saying.
I still say he hit the nail on the head in describing exactly how I feel.

Hang in there Jason! I know my higher power is watching over you cuz I asked him too! lol!

Have a GREAT Saturday all!
Callie

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:16:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d tear a standard-size cigarette paper in half and put no more indra
than could be contained in that, usually once or twice a week, sometimes
three times. I estimate on the order of .01-.2 mg/kg, very subtle.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:29:45 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
How much iboga or ibogaine were you taking on a daily basis?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:07:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

True, but I was getting it for my son.  He has used it once, unsuccessfully–but no allergic reactions.  And, he’s very healthy.  He probably threw alot of it up.  But, I’m considering stopping payment and cancelling the order.

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:04:44 +0100

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:04:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara has a very good point, the unsupervised use of hcl. if it leads to emergencies and scare stories damages the possibility of acceptance and proliferation of Ibogaine in medicine/therapy. – People who can’t get ‘responsible’ treatment are at risk it seems ….. Sjonny.

>From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:39:08 +0200

>

>  your feeling, Does that take the responsibility a way, then?

>No one will stop people from giving methadone to addict even if some will

>die from, but the chance that, that will make ibogaine illegal if they find

>out that someone die of it is very big. especially because you are next to

>u.s.a then no one will care about your feelings but about theirs.

>

>

>—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–

>Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]

>Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 17:25

>Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

>

>

>There is some risk with ibogaine, but in one county in the state I’m form

>there were 3 deaths form ODing of methadone or oxycontin in one month!  I

>feel that the addiction risk is much greater.

>

> >From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

> >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:28:57 +0200

> >

> >

> >For me it is a matter of consciousness, on one hand you would like to help

> >someone for cheap, on the other hand there is a risk which I wouldn’t mind

> >taking , only if I’m present at the treatment or if I knew that the person

> >had experienced Ibogaine before and knows to take care of a good setting

> >For the treatment.

> >I know that it is a business for some people, but then we talk about how

> >important intensions are,and intensions alone is not enough.

> >Your help, can help someone get really sick, what will you do then,

> >Jump in the car find them and give them some more?

> >Or say sorry next time better?

> >It is a personal responsibility selling medication.

> >In the bwiti tradition you have mama Iboga & papa Iboga who take care

> >Of the initiate, here in the west we don’t care so much it seems, only

> >about

> >money.

> >Our intensions are maybe good but our actions are not.

> >

> >Sara,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–

> >Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]

> >Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 1:22

> >Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

> >

> >

> >I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in

> >Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith

> >

> > >From: UUSEAN@aol.com

> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date:

> > >Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT

> > >

> > >

> > >Hi Carla,

> > >

> > >There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.

> > >we

> > >do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size

> >of

> > >the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is

> >Barbara’s

> >

> > >goal

> > >to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people

> > >clean

> > >for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness

> >in

> > >the community…talking to clinics etc.

> > >

> > >So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how

> > >the

> > >group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for

> > >growing

> > >the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about

> >helping

> > >to

> > >educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great

> >and

> > >strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are

> >experienced

> > >with

> > >ibogaine.

> > >

> > >Sean

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >/]=———————————————————————=[\

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> >[%]

> >

> >\]=———————————————————————=[/

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >/]=———————————————————————=[\

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>

> >[%]

> >

> >\]=———————————————————————=[/

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to

>School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

>

>

>

>

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>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:04:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara has a very good point, the unsupervised use of hcl. if it leads to emergencies and scare stories damages the possibility of acceptance and proliferation of Ibogaine in medicine/therapy. – People who can’t get ‘responsible’ treatment are at risk it seems ….. Sjonny.

>From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:39:08 +0200

>

>  your feeling, Does that take the responsibility a way, then?

>No one will stop people from giving methadone to addict even if some will

>die from, but the chance that, that will make ibogaine illegal if they find

>out that someone die of it is very big. especially because you are next to

>u.s.a then no one will care about your feelings but about theirs.

>

>

>—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–

>Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]

>Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 17:25

>Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

>

>

>There is some risk with ibogaine, but in one county in the state I’m form

>there were 3 deaths form ODing of methadone or oxycontin in one month!  I

>feel that the addiction risk is much greater.

>

> >From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

> >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:28:57 +0200

> >

> >

> >For me it is a matter of consciousness, on one hand you would like to help

> >someone for cheap, on the other hand there is a risk which I wouldn’t mind

> >taking , only if I’m present at the treatment or if I knew that the person

> >had experienced Ibogaine before and knows to take care of a good setting

> >For the treatment.

> >I know that it is a business for some people, but then we talk about how

> >important intensions are,and intensions alone is not enough.

> >Your help, can help someone get really sick, what will you do then,

> >Jump in the car find them and give them some more?

> >Or say sorry next time better?

> >It is a personal responsibility selling medication.

> >In the bwiti tradition you have mama Iboga & papa Iboga who take care

> >Of the initiate, here in the west we don’t care so much it seems, only

> >about

> >money.

> >Our intensions are maybe good but our actions are not.

> >

> >Sara,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–

> >Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]

> >Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 1:22

> >Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

> >

> >

> >I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in

> >Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith

> >

> > >From: UUSEAN@aol.com

> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date:

> > >Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT

> > >

> > >

> > >Hi Carla,

> > >

> > >There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.

> > >we

> > >do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size

> >of

> > >the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is

> >Barbara’s

> >

> > >goal

> > >to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people

> > >clean

> > >for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness

> >in

> > >the community…talking to clinics etc.

> > >

> > >So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how

> > >the

> > >group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for

> > >growing

> > >the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about

> >helping

> > >to

> > >educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great

> >and

> > >strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are

> >experienced

> > >with

> > >ibogaine.

> > >

> > >Sean

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

> >

> >

> >

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 18, 2004 at 12:59:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/18/04 10:03:43 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally
because of your inability to be strong?

That’s totally not fair to you Jason.
Unless you’re ripping them off or something.
Otherwise, there’s no reason for them to lay that burden on you. You’re
already dealing with society and its prejudices as it is, so why would
your loved ones lay that trip on you? I guess this is rhetorical though, as
even our loved ones are innundated with the propaganda day in, night out, day
after freakin’ day.

I’m with Preston on this one Jason, unless the people you are talking about
are your children and you are responsible for their state, their issue of
starving emotionally is on their heads not yours.

Howard

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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 12:55:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m having second thoughts, now.  Maybe I can cancel my order.  I’m not form Canada, but planned on traveling there to pick it up.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:39:08 +0200

your feeling, Does that take the responsibility a way, then?
No one will stop people from giving methadone to addict even if some will
die from, but the chance that, that will make ibogaine illegal if they find
out that someone die of it is very big. especially because you are next to
u.s.a then no one will care about your feelings but about theirs.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 17:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

There is some risk with ibogaine, but in one county in the state I’m form
there were 3 deaths form ODing of methadone or oxycontin in one month!  I
feel that the addiction risk is much greater.

>From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:28:57 +0200
>
>
>For me it is a matter of consciousness, on one hand you would like to help
>someone for cheap, on the other hand there is a risk which I wouldn’t mind
>taking , only if I’m present at the treatment or if I knew that the person
>had experienced Ibogaine before and knows to take care of a good setting
>For the treatment.
>I know that it is a business for some people, but then we talk about how
>important intensions are,and intensions alone is not enough.
>Your help, can help someone get really sick, what will you do then,
>Jump in the car find them and give them some more?
>Or say sorry next time better?
>It is a personal responsibility selling medication.
>In the bwiti tradition you have mama Iboga & papa Iboga who take care
>Of the initiate, here in the west we don’t care so much it seems, only
>about
>money.
>Our intensions are maybe good but our actions are not.
>
>Sara,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
>Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]
>Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 1:22
>Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
>
>
>I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in
>Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith
>
> >From: UUSEAN@aol.com
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date:
> >Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT
> >
> >
> >Hi Carla,
> >
> >There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.
> >we
> >do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size
>of
> >the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is
>Barbara’s
>
> >goal
> >to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people
> >clean
> >for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness
>in
> >the community…talking to clinics etc.
> >
> >So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how
> >the
> >group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for
> >growing
> >the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about
>helping
> >to
> >educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great
>and
> >strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are
>experienced
> >with
> >ibogaine.
> >
> >Sean
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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>

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: September 18, 2004 at 12:52:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not in Canada, but in the states.  I will be traveling to Canada.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:55:15 EDT

It must be nice to live in a country like Canada where you can talk about
selling ibogaine so freely.  We still live under the old schedule one here in the
states.

Sean

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 12:39:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

your feeling, Does that take the responsibility a way, then?
No one will stop people from giving methadone to addict even if some will
die from, but the chance that, that will make ibogaine illegal if they find
out that someone die of it is very big. especially because you are next to
u.s.a then no one will care about your feelings but about theirs.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 17:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk

There is some risk with ibogaine, but in one county in the state I’m form
there were 3 deaths form ODing of methadone or oxycontin in one month!  I
feel that the addiction risk is much greater.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:28:57 +0200

For me it is a matter of consciousness, on one hand you would like to help
someone for cheap, on the other hand there is a risk which I wouldn’t mind
taking , only if I’m present at the treatment or if I knew that the person
had experienced Ibogaine before and knows to take care of a good setting
For the treatment.
I know that it is a business for some people, but then we talk about how
important intensions are,and intensions alone is not enough.
Your help, can help someone get really sick, what will you do then,
Jump in the car find them and give them some more?
Or say sorry next time better?
It is a personal responsibility selling medication.
In the bwiti tradition you have mama Iboga & papa Iboga who take care
Of the initiate, here in the west we don’t care so much it seems, only
about
money.
Our intensions are maybe good but our actions are not.

Sara,

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 1:22
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in
Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT

Hi Carla,

There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.
we
do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size
of
the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is
Barbara’s

goal
to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people
clean
for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness
in
the community…talking to clinics etc.

So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how
the
group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for
growing
the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about
helping
to
educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great
and
strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are
experienced
with
ibogaine.

Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine risk
Date: September 18, 2004 at 11:24:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is some risk with ibogaine, but in one county in the state I’m form there were 3 deaths form ODing of methadone or oxycontin in one month!  I feel that the addiction risk is much greater.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:28:57 +0200

For me it is a matter of consciousness, on one hand you would like to help
someone for cheap, on the other hand there is a risk which I wouldn’t mind
taking , only if I’m present at the treatment or if I knew that the person
had experienced Ibogaine before and knows to take care of a good setting
For the treatment.
I know that it is a business for some people, but then we talk about how
important intensions are,and intensions alone is not enough.
Your help, can help someone get really sick, what will you do then,
Jump in the car find them and give them some more?
Or say sorry next time better?
It is a personal responsibility selling medication.
In the bwiti tradition you have mama Iboga & papa Iboga who take care
Of the initiate, here in the west we don’t care so much it seems, only about
money.
Our intensions are maybe good but our actions are not.

Sara,

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 1:22
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in
Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith

>From: UUSEAN@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date:
>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT
>
>
>Hi Carla,
>
>There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.
>we
>do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size of
>the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is Barbara’s

>goal
>to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people
>clean
>for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness in
>the community…talking to clinics etc.
>
>So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how
>the
>group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for
>growing
>the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about helping
>to
>educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great and
>strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are experienced
>with
>ibogaine.
>
>Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 18, 2004 at 11:03:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally
because of your inability to be strong?<

That’s totally not fair to you Jason.
Unless you’re ripping them off or something.
Otherwise, there’s no reason for them to lay that burden on you. You’re
already dealing with society and its prejudices as it is, so why would your
loved ones lay that trip on you? I guess this is rhetorical though, as even
our loved ones are innundated with the propaganda day in, night out, day
after freakin’ day.
You hit a major issue with your thinking about the paradox of Legal vs.
Illegal opiates.
As DRCNet reprinted in an article today

(http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/354/whatisit.shtml

snip-
But there’s a larger issue at stake, which drug warriors hate to talk about,
at least in a context like this. Why is that opium destined to be processed
into heroin is a funding source for crime and terrorism, but opium intended
for pain medicines or anesthesia isn’t?
Are they two different types of opium? No. Are the drugs highly different?
No, heroin and morphine, for example, are essentially similar. Not that any
of that would make any difference anyway.
The only difference between opium for heroin and opium for pain meds is that
pain meds are manufactured, distributed and taken legally. Heroin, on the
other hand, is illegal.
snip-
—-
So have fun with that girl you mentioned watching films with, and be nice to
yourself. It’s ok to like opiates I think. We don’t have to feel subhuman,
although we’re made to feel that way all our freakin’ lives, so often even
by people we least expect or want it from, people who really should know
better.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jason Bursey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:16 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz

I had insomnia like crazy last night.  I was really tired, not just
physically, but would just lay there getting frustrated at my inability to
remember how to fall asleep.  I woke up a few hours ago and I feel a large
weight…

After trying to ask “what is trying to happen here”, I remembered talking
with a family member about an event that happened a couple of months ago
that was apparantly allot bigger then I remembered.  Passed out in p0ol, no
heartbeat or breathing for a few minutes, friends CPRed me back, but not
concious.  At the hospital I remained in a coma for 4 days.  I learned last
night that the doctors were telling all my family that chances of making it
back are unlikely, and that if I did, I would likely have brain damage, etc.
When I came out of the coma, I had tubes out of every hole and tubes in new
holes they pricked.

So anyways, I’m talking to this family member last night and the look in her
eyes…she said, “it was a miracle, a real miracle.  You were charming and
light hearted and seemed to be without sickness” (opioid sickness).  “But
then something changed and it came back.”  She said this with this
heavyness, hard to explain.  Like “I thought it was over but, sigh, it came
back” type look.

I realized after thinking last night that they tell me I was given decent
amounts of IV morphine when I came out but that was cut off after a couple
of days.

I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.  I feel
weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel unreliable without
them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.  I don’t know how to act
without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.

Yes, things are getting better, but it is happening sooo ssslllooowwwly that
I sometimes wonder if I would be better off, you know?

Then, I think about the details of what using opioids would mean in our
current society (illegal heroin or “legal” methadone).  And the human
manipulation that is attached to that.

That is the paradox.  Damned if you do.  Damned if you don’t.

I guess it comes down to faith in my own abilities without opioids.

Fatigue gets old, real old.

How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally
because of your inability to be strong?

I’m feeling a bit like a burnout right now.

Anyways, thanks for reading me whine I guess.  I wonder if sending this is
healthy or unhealthy.  Who knows.

Re: questions (more I learn the less I know[so true]); I’m reminded of that
fixx song ‘one thing leads to another’

Re: aftercare?  why assume what is true for one is true for all?

Re: “wisdom” cut teeth?, umm yeah, that hurts.

Re: right now?  I think I’m going to go watch VG’s new movie; going with the
chick who turned me on to heroin, but has since kicked and is going to
school to be a nurse.  She is good people, and more importantly, she is real
people.

Oh and if you don’t post but only listen…./I probably shouldn’t say.

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment
Date: September 18, 2004 at 10:52:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark Connors wrote >I’m not sure what I would have said
if she asked me the name of the program though.<

Healing Visions?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment

When I called my provider (at an HMO) to request the tests I got a call
back
asking what I wanted them for. I was prepared and told her I was doing
treatment for speed and that I was going to a special program that wanted
the tests done because it addressed the problem through vitamins, therapy,
etc. and they wanted to be sure I was in good health before I went. That
satisfied her. Its good to be prepaired. I’m not sure what I would have
said
if she asked me the name of the program though.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  getting records for treatment Date: Fri, 17 Sep
2004 16:17:22 EDT

In ant state in the US if you are the patient, you can get a copy of all
your medical records and or reports. They are allowed by law to charge a
nominal
fee and actual prints of x-rays, MRI’s etc.. cost about $3.00 per sheet.
You
mhave to sign a release and proove you are the person you say you are.

It’s d law mon

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment
Date: September 18, 2004 at 6:43:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think they do belong to the patient, though I’m not sure it was me who
first noted that. I have gone to get my old liver/biopsy tests recovered and
got a letter the other day telling me I have to pay another $30 or so to get
the actual papers sent to me- but it is possible to do in NY.
As far as I know, using my own experience as a basis for my belief, you
can “just go” to the hospital where your tests were done Randy, although you
will probably have to pay some meager fee or other(s).
Good luck.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment

Preston, wasn’t it you who was talking about med records in the state of NY
belonging to the patient? Could I just go to the hospital and get the test
results they have from me? I don’t think you can do that in KY but I’m
thinking you can here in NY. I have other records these are just newer.
Randy

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: September 18, 2004 at 3:28:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For me it is a matter of consciousness, on one hand you would like to help
someone for cheap, on the other hand there is a risk which I wouldn’t mind
taking , only if I’m present at the treatment or if I knew that the person
had experienced Ibogaine before and knows to take care of a good setting
For the treatment.
I know that it is a business for some people, but then we talk about how
important intensions are,and intensions alone is not enough.
Your help, can help someone get really sick, what will you do then,
Jump in the car find them and give them some more?
Or say sorry next time better?
It is a personal responsibility selling medication.
In the bwiti tradition you have mama Iboga & papa Iboga who take care
Of the initiate, here in the west we don’t care so much it seems, only about
money.
Our intensions are maybe good but our actions are not.

Sara,

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Faith Bowling [mailto:bchloej@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 1:22
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday

I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in
Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT

Hi Carla,

There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.
we
do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size of
the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is Barbara’s

goal
to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people
clean
for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness in
the community…talking to clinics etc.

So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how
the
group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for
growing
the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about helping
to
educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great and
strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are experienced
with
ibogaine.

Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root bark 3-6%
Date: September 18, 2004 at 2:45:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 0:51
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root
bark 3-6%

In a message dated 9/17/04 4:07:29 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I don’t think I would like to take
ibogaine on a daily basis even
in low doses.  I think iboga/ibogaine directs one to
return to their natural
state without continuing to take  ibogaine.  Just a
thought.

Howard,
I only wish I could have felt that way- the whole
reason I took Ibogaine was to “return to my natural
state”, pre-drugs.  This, however, did not happen…

Dear Julie,

Your circumstances of taking ibogaine were about as uncontrolled as it can
get.  Not, that that is actually bad but, you were on your own, your threw
up
part of your dose, there is no clarity on the purity or potency of your dose
and
you really should have had support and help.  That being said, I refer to
Dr.
Glick’s rats.  Some responded to ibogaine after a single dose, some after a
second dose and some after a third dose and some not at all.  I think you
are
doing a lot better than some of dr. glick’s rats.

Also directing one to a natural state is not quite the same as putting you
there.  You have to follow the road.  The road is a well known symbol in the

Bwiti experience as it is in all of our lives.

I think that if you were in a safe comfortable environment with support that

you may have a better chance to achieve the results you desire.  I sure hope

so.

Howard

Howard,

Well said, I agree absolutely agree with you, Ibogaine isn’t something you
do alone.

Sara

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 18, 2004 at 1:11:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/2004 7:17:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca writes:

I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.   I
feel
weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel  unreliable
without
them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.   I don’t know how to act
without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.

Yes, things are getting better, but it is happening sooo ssslllooowwwly
that
I sometimes wonder if I would be better off, you know?

Then, I think about the details of what using opioids would mean in our
current society (illegal heroin or “legal” methadone).  And the human
manipulation that is attached to that.

That is the paradox.  Damned if you do.  Damned if you  don’t.

I guess it comes down to faith in my own abilities without opioids.

Fatigue gets old, real old.

Oh my Jason! I have never heard or read a description of how I feel and
think until I just read your post. I feel like those are my exact
thoughts. When
you say you know things will get better but it is so slow is the fear I
have
about detoxing completely off opiates. That fear of failure is the main
reason
I  have not detoxed in the past. That fear of feeling soooooo fucking bad
is
my  motivation to do Ibogaine. I can take feeling bad for a few days but
not
weeks  or months. I CAN’T DO IT, I know I can’t.
Even a positive affirmation would not change that fear.
And I think of doing an Ibogaine treatment. The precious weeks afterward
without a craving will be bliss, a miracle BUT it slips away as everyone
says.
Then here I would be, feeling bad and not knowing what to do to feel
better
except use. Then after I feel that old friend euphoria all my future
resistance
will be gone. I will be back at square 1 or should I say more like square
minus  one.
Yes, my friend fatigue does get old and so does fear.
I am here Jason and I know exactly how you are feeling.
Callie

yeah alot of us in the same boat.  when it rocks we all get sick. when its
still we get impatient.  and some of us know the consequences of going
overboard. . what the fuck is the point goes through my head time adn time
again.  keep fighting brother.

n

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 18, 2004 at 12:47:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/2004 7:17:13 PM Central Daylight Time, jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca writes:
I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.  I feel weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel unreliable without them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.  I don’t know how to act without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.

Yes, things are getting better, but it is happening sooo ssslllooowwwly that I sometimes wonder if I would be better off, you know?

Then, I think about the details of what using opioids would mean in our current society (illegal heroin or “legal” methadone).  And the human manipulation that is attached to that.

That is the paradox.  Damned if you do.  Damned if you don’t.

I guess it comes down to faith in my own abilities without opioids.

Fatigue gets old, real old.

Oh my Jason! I have never heard or read a description of how I feel and think until I just read your post. I feel like those are my exact thoughts. When you say you know things will get better but it is so slow is the fear I have about detoxing completely off opiates. That fear of failure is the main reason I have not detoxed in the past. That fear of feeling soooooo fucking bad is my motivation to do Ibogaine. I can take feeling bad for a few days but not weeks or months. I CAN’T DO IT, I know I can’t.
Even a positive affirmation would not change that fear.
And I think of doing an Ibogaine treatment. The precious weeks afterward without a craving will be bliss, a miracle BUT it slips away as everyone says. Then here I would be, feeling bad and not knowing what to do to feel better except use. Then after I feel that old friend euphoria all my future resistance will be gone. I will be back at square 1 or should I say more like square minus one.
Yes, my friend fatigue does get old and so does fear.
I am here Jason and I know exactly how you are feeling.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root bark 3-6%
Date: September 18, 2004 at 12:34:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/2004 5:51:51 PM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
I think you are
doing a lot better than some of dr. glick’s rats.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! I am so sorry….I know this is a serious post but that sentence blew me away! hahahahahahahaha!!!!
Thanks Howard and Julie, I really needed that laugh out loud! hahahaha!!
But….Julie if you get to craving cheese……………..hahahaha!!! Sorry!
Hoping you have a sense of humor!
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 17, 2004 at 11:05:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jason,

In many ways it is necessary for me to be in therapy to get though those of fears of what my life will be like post crack and dope.

The more I step out and live life day by day clean of the hard drugs  the less fearful I am though.  Fear lives in my head so to speak.  My future is being written by where my feet are if that makes any sense.

Please keep posting these kind of thoughts Jason.  I really have put my family though hell by my use, so I know what that feels like.  I can see how their lives get better each day that I make the right choices for me…

But getting clean off opiates is no joke as I think we all know,,remember that there is someone reading this list who is either right where you are, recently was, or who can remember when…I think you know you ain’t alone mahn.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: September 17, 2004 at 10:55:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It must be nice to live in a country like Canada where you can talk about selling ibogaine so freely.  We still live under the old schedule one here in the states.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 17, 2004 at 10:50:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Preston and other NYC City ibonoaughts,

We are also having real informal meetings where we basically just hang and get to know each other.  No facilitator, usually in a park.  At least at first.  Falafel seems to be the food of choice afterwards.

It really was amazing the first time I hung out with four other people who had experienced ibogaine.  Interesting too, hearing the differences in experiences from a person treated in say Mexico from person treated in Holland.

There will be a “formal” group meeting next Friday with Barbara Judd.  But if that is a real turnoff, the informal get together are real community building too…maybe even more so in some ways.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bright lights, big city, head brightening
Date: September 17, 2004 at 10:39:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Rachel,

I have to agree with you concerning the second hand book market. Besides the fact that I would totally broke if I bought all my books new, there’s always that unexpected treasure that can turn up on the dusty shelves of a second book store.

A spanking new Barrens and Noble just doesn’t have the same feel..although I have been known to sneak off and read good portions of books I could not afford right then.

Sean

PS hope you all can make it into the city someday soon.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 10:31:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/04 10:28:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

There no meaningful difference between, say,
addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the awareness of
what it’s like to be an addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But
you’re still left facing the same shit at the end of the day.<

Being in therapy right now I really have to disagree, at least in my case.  90% of time when I running with coke and dope, I was on auto pilot.  In some ways I had no more understanding of why I was getting high than anyone else.  If pressed I would tell you, “because it feels SO DAMN GOOD.”

In therapy I am really getting a grasp on the idea that in my case my addiction was in a sense protecting me from feeling very terrifying feelings.  I really never knew that.
Eight weeks of therapy later, I can really see that now.  Fucked up, self destructive, yes, but a part of me really felt it was doing it’s job by keeping me high and doing what it took to stay that way.

This is in no way saying that what is true for me is true anyone else though. But after a three day run, I wasn’t looking at much.  Except how the hell to get more.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 17, 2004 at 10:23:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Dark and conspiratorial perhaps, but I think your description of the war on drugs and users is much more on the money than people like to admit.

Of course besides the money angle which I agree is most of the big picture concerning why legalization is so far off, here in the States mediocre politicians score points as tough on crime by fighting us every inch of the way.

Sean

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment
Date: September 17, 2004 at 9:57:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schmoolyboy, Thanx for your reply. I thought that was the case here didn’t know about all the states tho.     Randy

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] about intention..
Date: September 17, 2004 at 9:49:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you.  my sister gave me ‘Buddha in your mirror’ right before my hcl dose and picked it up periodically during the journey.

Good luck on your project.

ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com wrote:
Hi All,
There’s a story about a thief who climbed over the wall of Buddha’s ashram and got away with some stuff until he was caught by the wall by a couple of disciples.  One of them was a monk who had been living with the teacher for 30 years, a disciple who had the capacity to remember hundreds of “his” past lives.  The disciples brought the thief to Buddha.  Upon seeing the teacher’s contenence, his immense Presence/Clarity, the man immediately broke down and surrendered.  He surrendered everything he imagined he was, and thought he wasen’t in that moment, and essentially stripped himself of every vestage of separatness, and completely and utterly died into that Moment.  Without identifying with a separate self there is no longer any personal suffering.  He became enlightened.
The master recognised what had happened , assured the man he was worthy and confirmed it was the case.  The one disciple who had spent his lifetime acquiring knowledge about himself lamented to his teacher as to why, given his devotion to the teaching, his discipline, and all his supposed self-knowledge he hadn’t attained to enlightenment.  And Buddha’s reply?  Well, you can imagine, right?  Totality is the key.  In true intention and readiness, there’s a Buddha within every situation we find ourselves in.

&n bsp;                                                                                                                       f.

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Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] about intention..
Date: September 17, 2004 at 8:55:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,
There’s a story about a thief who climbed over the wall of Buddha’s ashram and got away with some stuff until he was caught by the wall by a couple of disciples.  One of them was a monk who had been living with the teacher for 30 years, a disciple who had the capacity to remember hundreds of “his” past lives.  The disciples brought the thief to Buddha.  Upon seeing the teacher’s contenence, his immense Presence/Clarity, the man immediately broke down and surrendered.  He surrendered everything he imagined he was, and thought he wasen’t in that moment, and essentially stripped himself of every vestage of separatness, and completely and utterly died into that Moment.  Without identifying with a separate self there is no longer any personal suffering.  He became enlightened.
The master recognised what had happened , assured the man he was worthy and confirmed it was the case.  The one disciple who had spent his lifetime acquiring knowledge about himself lamented to his teacher as to why, given his devotion to the teaching, his discipline, and all his supposed self-knowledge he hadn’t attained to enlightenment.  And Buddha’s reply?  Well, you can imagine, right?  Totality is the key.  In true intention and readiness, there’s a Buddha within every situation we find ourselves in.

f.

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 17, 2004 at 8:16:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had insomnia like crazy last night.  I was really tired, not just physically, but would just lay there getting frustrated at my inability to remember how to fall asleep.  I woke up a few hours ago and I feel a large weight…

After trying to ask “what is trying to happen here”, I remembered talking with a family member about an event that happened a couple of months ago that was apparantly allot bigger then I remembered.  Passed out in p0ol, no heartbeat or breathing for a few minutes, friends CPRed me back, but not concious.  At the hospital I remained in a coma for 4 days.  I learned last night that the doctors were telling all my family that chances of making it back are unlikely, and that if I did, I would likely have brain damage, etc.
When I came out of the coma, I had tubes out of every hole and tubes in new holes they pricked.

So anyways, I’m talking to this family member last night and the look in her eyes…she said, “it was a miracle, a real miracle.  You were charming and light hearted and seemed to be without sickness” (opioid sickness).  “But then something changed and it came back.”  She said this with this heavyness, hard to explain.  Like “I thought it was over but, sigh, it came back” type look.

I realized after thinking last night that they tell me I was given decent amounts of IV morphine when I came out but that was cut off after a couple of days.

I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.  I feel weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel unreliable without them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.  I don’t know how to act without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.

Yes, things are getting better, but it is happening sooo ssslllooowwwly that I sometimes wonder if I would be better off, you know?

Then, I think about the details of what using opioids would mean in our current society (illegal heroin or “legal” methadone).  And the human manipulation that is attached to that.

That is the paradox.  Damned if you do.  Damned if you don’t.

I guess it comes down to faith in my own abilities without opioids.

Fatigue gets old, real old.

How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally because of your inability to be strong?

I’m feeling a bit like a burnout right now.

Anyways, thanks for reading me whine I guess.  I wonder if sending this is healthy or unhealthy.  Who knows.

Re: questions (more I learn the less I know[so true]); I’m reminded of that fixx song ‘one thing leads to another’

Re: aftercare?  why assume what is true for one is true for all?

Re: “wisdom” cut teeth?, umm yeah, that hurts.

Re: right now?  I think I’m going to go watch VG’s new movie; going with the chick who turned me on to heroin, but has since kicked and is going to school to be a nurse.  She is good people, and more importantly, she is real people.

Oh and if you don’t post but only listen…./I probably shouldn’t say.
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic whine to hak3rz
Date: September 17, 2004 at 8:16:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had insomnia like crazy last night.  I was really tired, not just physically, but would just lay there getting frustrated at my inability to remember how to fall asleep.  I woke up a few hours ago and I feel a large weight…

After trying to ask “what is trying to happen here”, I remembered talking with a family member about an event that happened a couple of months ago that was apparantly allot bigger then I remembered.  Passed out in p0ol, no heartbeat or breathing for a few minutes, friends CPRed me back, but not concious.  At the hospital I remained in a coma for 4 days.  I learned last night that the doctors were telling all my family that chances of making it back are unlikely, and that if I did, I would likely have brain damage, etc.
When I came out of the coma, I had tubes out of every hole and tubes in new holes they pricked.

So anyways, I’m talking to this family member last night and the look in her eyes…she said, “it was a miracle, a real miracle.  You were charming and light hearted and seemed to be without sickness” (opioid sickness).  “But then something changed and it came back.”  She said this with this heavyness, hard to explain.  Like “I thought it was over but, sigh, it came back” type look.

I realized after thinking last night that they tell me I was given decent amounts of IV morphine when I came out but that was cut off after a couple of days.

I have very little respect for myself in this state of non-opioids.  I feel weak without them.  I feel fatigued without them.  I feel unreliable without them.  I don’t know what to expect without them.  I don’t know how to act without them.

I fucking hate this mahn.

Yes, things are getting better, but it is happening sooo ssslllooowwwly that I sometimes wonder if I would be better off, you know?

Then, I think about the details of what using opioids would mean in our current society (illegal heroin or “legal” methadone).  And the human manipulation that is attached to that.

That is the paradox.  Damned if you do.  Damned if you don’t.

I guess it comes down to faith in my own abilities without opioids.

Fatigue gets old, real old.

How would you feel if people you cared about are starving emotionally because of your inability to be strong?

I’m feeling a bit like a burnout right now.

Anyways, thanks for reading me whine I guess.  I wonder if sending this is healthy or unhealthy.  Who knows.

Re: questions (more I learn the less I know[so true]); I’m reminded of that fixx song ‘one thing leads to another’

Re: aftercare?  why assume what is true for one is true for all?

Re: “wisdom” cut teeth?, umm yeah, that hurts.

Re: right now?  I think I’m going to go watch VG’s new movie; going with the chick who turned me on to heroin, but has since kicked and is going to school to be a nurse.  She is good people, and more importantly, she is real people.

Oh and if you don’t post but only listen…./I probably shouldn’t say.
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: will be picking up HCL in Toronto on wednesday
Date: September 17, 2004 at 7:22:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I will be buying more than I need, so if anyone would like to meet me in Toronto, I can sell some; it will be about $365 a gram.  Faith

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:44:43 EDT

Hi Carla,

There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.  we
do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size of
the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is Barbara’s goal
to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people clean
for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness in
the community…talking to clinics etc.

So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how the
group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for growing
the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about helping to
educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great and
strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are experienced with
ibogaine.

Sean

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 6:55:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/04 5:11:01 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

I do say those things to myself! lol! I do a LOT of positive
affirmations to myself daily. I say them out loud too, I don’t just think
them.  Someone might think I was a blooming idiot if they ‘bugged or wired’
my
house and listened to me talking to myself as the day goes on. I have noticed
that I  talk less to myself as the day goes on….kinda start my days all
fresh
and  aware but as the time ticks away so does my optimism!

Hi Callie,

Talking to yourself can be very helpful.  I once picked up a behavioral
pattern that I didn’t like and when I caught myself, I would say, “Howard, stop
that!”  It was a new behavior and I cut it right out.

Regards,

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root bark 3-6%
Date: September 17, 2004 at 6:50:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/04 4:07:29 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I don’t think I would like to take
ibogaine on a daily basis even
in low doses.  I think iboga/ibogaine directs one to
return to their natural
state without continuing to take  ibogaine.  Just a
thought.

Howard,
I only wish I could have felt that way- the whole
reason I took Ibogaine was to “return to my natural
state”, pre-drugs.  This, however, did not happen…

Dear Julie,

Your circumstances of taking ibogaine were about as uncontrolled as it can
get.  Not, that that is actually bad but, you were on your own, your threw up
part of your dose, there is no clarity on the purity or potency of your dose and
you really should have had support and help.  That being said, I refer to Dr.
Glick’s rats.  Some responded to ibogaine after a single dose, some after a
second dose and some after a third dose and some not at all.  I think you are
doing a lot better than some of dr. glick’s rats.

Also directing one to a natural state is not quite the same as putting you
there.  You have to follow the road.  The road is a well known symbol in the
Bwiti experience as it is in all of our lives.

I think that if you were in a safe comfortable environment with support that
you may have a better chance to achieve the results you desire.  I sure hope
so.

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 6:10:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/2004 2:20:27 PM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
OK?

Okay Julian! I do say those things to myself! lol! I do a LOT of positive affirmations to myself daily. I say them out loud too, I don’t just think them. Someone might think I was a blooming idiot if they ‘bugged or wired’ my house and listened to me talking to myself as the day goes on. I have noticed that I talk less to myself as the day goes on….kinda start my days all fresh and aware but as the time ticks away so does my optimism!
I am really no sadder today than I usually am though Julian. You are very thoughtful to be so concerned. In fact, we are all very lucky to have computers or access to a puter and online and having each other on this list.
When I logically think about ALL the communicating that goes on between us while we are all over the world, it is quite amazing and damn cool! It is also a comfort to me that there are other folks that think and react like me all over this planet!
Damn remarkable!
Well, gotta go to work tonight. Working the evening/graveyard shift so if any of you have insomnia tonight, know I am also awake, working away and I will think of you all at least once or twice before morning! loll!
Call

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion- Callie
Date: September 17, 2004 at 5:32:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/2004 11:54:56 AM Central Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
love,
Julie

you are welcome Julie and lots of love right back to ya!
Callie

From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment
Date: September 17, 2004 at 5:15:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I called my provider (at an HMO) to request the tests I got a call back asking what I wanted them for. I was prepared and told her I was doing treatment for speed and that I was going to a special program that wanted the tests done because it addressed the problem through vitamins, therapy, etc. and they wanted to be sure I was in good health before I went. That satisfied her. Its good to be prepaired. I’m not sure what I would have said if she asked me the name of the program though.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  getting records for treatment Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:17:22 EDT

In ant state in the US if you are the patient, you can get a copy of all
your medical records and or reports. They are allowed by law to charge a nominal
fee and actual prints of x-rays, MRI’s etc.. cost about $3.00 per sheet. You
mhave to sign a release and proove you are the person you say you are.

It’s d law mon

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root bark 3-6%
Date: September 17, 2004 at 5:06:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think I would like to take
ibogaine on a daily basis even
in low doses.  I think iboga/ibogaine directs one to
return to their natural
state without continueing to take  ibogaine.  Just a
thought.

Howard,
I only wish I could have felt that way- the whole
reason I took Ibogaine was to “return to my natural
state”, pre-drugs.  This, however, did not happen…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment
Date: September 17, 2004 at 4:17:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In ant state in the US if you are the patient, you can get a copy of all your medical records and or reports. They are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee and actual prints of x-rays, MRI’s etc.. cost about $3.00 per sheet. You mhave to sign a release and proove you are the person you say you are.

It’s d law mon

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 3:19:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually Callie Dave may have felt that way but he was also quoting you a saying. Something like “When I was young I thought I knew it all, but as I got older I put away childish things…..” I’m sorry I can’t remember exactly how it goes but the concept is insightful as it applies to what you said and how many of us feel. Believe me, the true intellectuals in life will always tell you the more they learn, the more they realize how little they knew! For every piece of information you collect and insight you gather, you only end up with more questions. (Einstein also was a purporter of this ‘belief’). Callie, I sort of agree with you about life before drugs, but since I am a firm believer that drugs are a small part of our problem, I think I feel life was better before I grew up. (note: I didn’t say I matured!!!) I know if I didn’t indulge in drugs, I would have found another outlet for my ‘inner turmoil’. As a matter of fact, when I graduated from Hope House, a Therapeutic Community like Synanon, or topic house, I didn’t get high for about a year and a half. I dreamed about it, thought about it, but never did it. I did start to eat alot and began to gamble. These are two things I don’t do though. A also twiddled my hair, cracked my knuckles etc. I am not saying everyone here would have done the same, but with me my inner shit has to be dealt with in some form. If I don’t handle it in a healthy way, it will manifest in some ‘unhealthy’ form. Callie please don’t get too down over your pattern of behavior which angers you. Just do what I do, try very hard to learn from it. This is why I am so big on Ibogaine as a learning and spiritual experience and not as a substance use interruper alone. If you can get some insight into your self, you might have half the war fought and won. I don’t know but I don’t want to see you sad Callie. You really are a great person and very sensitive. Hey you know what!!! Say to yourself what you would say to me if the tables were reversed……OK?

Love,

Julian

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:29:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/04 12:25:29 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< There was a feeling of being run-down, as in likely to catch colds. I
had a physical feeling of distaste, and a mild sense of being contaminated.
My impression is that it stresses muscles around the intestines, partly
thanks to observations of a body worker who didn’t know I was taking
it. I can’t rule out a psychological cause for all this, of course.
Particularly
since I am still working on the issues that it has raised for me. >>

How much iboga or ibogaine were you taking on a daily basis?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:27:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I tried ayahuasca about 9 years ago, I’d been very curious since reading Burroughs’ writings about Yage. Me and a friend paid 25 guildens(whatever that is now) for a bag of those big gel capsules. I first took 3 caps and after a little nausea started a beautiful trip, there were 3 of us in a warmly lit room but no-one could get a joint together, there was skunk butter in the fridge though – very good quality- and I ate a lot then took 2 or 3 more caps. Everything was heavenly – very euphoric until I started to feel like I was moving around 10 miles per second. I also acquired a flame like vision whenever I opened my eyes, I suppose you’re never 100% sure what you’re getting sometimes and I ate a lot of weed but it was very fast – I would certainly do it again though being older and (a little) wiser, I think you can order ayahuasca online and be assured what you’re getting.Sjg
>From: <slowone@hush.ai>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy

>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:48:03 -0700

>

>It will be interesting to see how you feel about ibogaine, if you try

>it. What was the setting for your ayahuasca experience? I have tried

>it alone but got the message to do it with people, and this has worked

>very well for me.

>

>On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:43:06 -0700 “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>

>wrote:

> >Hmmm……. I think ayahuasca had the edge on my sanity when I did

> >some years ago, but different folks……. Sjg.

>

>

>

>

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root bark 3-6%
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:27:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/04 12:01:52 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

<< I wanted to add some quick info to this topic of
debate:  I too, have taken low dose iboga therapy
(Maya Ethnobotanicals, root bark powder, 3-6%), almost
in a maintenance type fashion.  I experienced
absolutely no visionary element(no surprise), but was
aware of a mild, stimulant type buzz.  I could see how
the process would wear you down over several months,
as SLEEPING was not easy- it didn’t come naturally.

I can see why the Bwiti use it to hunt, as you can
stay awake for quite some time.  Also, I would usually
take about 100-300ml, whenever I felt a craving
starting to surface, and within 20-40 minutes, the
cravings were GONESKI! >>

If sleep was a problem possibly a typical response would have been to reduce
the dose.  I don’t think I would like to take ibogaine on a daily basis even
in low doses.  I think iboga/ibogaine directs one to return to their natural
state without continueing to take  ibogaine.  Just a thought.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:16:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I went to the city, met friends of ibo, met Dana and Paul D,.and took the
last bus back to joisey.  Before ibo, and harm reduction, I would have
thought this impossible.<

I will try and make next week’s get together.
I have been really wacked out by my tooth problems, but finally got the
damned infected wisdom tooth cut out this morning- and am just now aware of
the novacaine wearing off. But even having a damn good idea of what I’m
facing in terms of yet more pain, I did not go buy a rig on the way home,
even having picked up a few scripts including a dilaudid script. It’s been
ritual for so long that I buy the dilaudids then go home and bang up 6, 8,
16 of them before leaving the bathroom, again, as a ritual after first
opening each freash bottle I would give myself permission to totally
eradicate my pain, and get really freakin’ high in the process,
rationalizing it all out very succinctly in my mind and to V. (I will never
cease to be amazed that she has stuck by me all these years, in a pretty
loving relationship too I must say, not in a horrific, “oh shit why are we
together” sorta way, even if we do occasionally have the big fight or two.)
But I did not go buy a rig or more than one either, I got my script, then
walked to get a big extra-healthy fruit smoothy from Liquaria (the best
smoothies in NYC in my humble opinion) then caught a cab home.
As a matter of fact, as another aside, due to feeling like I just
couldn’t afford it and it wouldn’t really do anything but make me
temporariyly and woozily high in a way I don’t altogether like all that
much, I resisted the urge to pay the extra $75 (which I did have but
wouldn’t have had anything left with which to pay for anti-biotics and pain
meds, or at least, not quite enough to pay for them all) and did not have
myself gassed with Nitrous beforehand. I just got the local and sat there
sweating great big bullet sized drops of sweat as the denist injected (into
a nerve, after which I jerked and my hand flew up in reflex and hit his
hand, still holding the needle full of novacaine imbedded in my jaw, thereby
driving the tip back into the nerve yet again, for a double whammy on the
nerve in the back of my jaw). In the past I would not have passed on the
gas, if only for the high, even knowing it doesn’t really affect pain at all
in any way, only makes the patients, or me rather, woozy and loose as noted.
But not even that loose for that matter, so what the hell, I didn’t get it
is my point.
And that’s a definite difference in behavior on my part, that and not
buying a rig, knowing full well how much more effective and immediate the
pain relief in my face would be were I to merely shoot a couple of dilaudids
into my vein. The dentist told me the worst part would be whent he novacaine
first wears off and to not wait, to take my medicines before then to
counteract the pain before it even hits me- and I took his advice, but took
the meds orally. The last, broken, tooth I had cut out a couple weeks ago
left me literally crying (and I don’t cry that easily either) on the bed
after the novacaine wore off, as did this one I just got cut out, only that
made me weep from sheer infection agony.
So the tempations to shoot up and get fast relief are overwhelming at
times, very depressing but still something I’m managing to keep as a
“conjecture” rather than a “fact.”
I’m babbling again. Go away figmints , yer distra…oh, hold on, that’s
what I want, distraction. Hang out figmints. Talk about ibogaine some more.
Someone suggested I do some and I’d forget all about my pain- but besides
simply not having any nor  the money to buy any, I don’t suppose it’d be the
best idea I ever had, to take ibogaine (at the amount I want to next time-
not less than I did the first time as I wound up taking the second time
around, but rather the same amount, at least) with a reshly stiched but
still apparently gaping hole in the back of my jaw that hurts like the devil
and is growing ever more, oh, awke as I write.
I’m distracted already, but not in a nice way.
Back to the subjecfts at hand all.
And a nice day to you all too. For tha tmatter, even if you are all
figmints.
Now to convince myself my pain is a figmint too and I’ll be doing just
dandy.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla

Hey Preston.
,

Wherever you choose to grumble is a very personal decision I think.:) I find
this list to be a great support as there are no harm reduction groups in the
city, and I am sure not going to 12 step.  They will tell me that because I
smoked weed tonight, it is no better than if I smoked crack, or shot heroin.

I went to the city, met friends of ibo, met Dana and Paul D,.and took the
last bus back to joisey.  Before ibo, and harm reduction, I would have
thought this impossible.
I was in the mindset one toke weed=permission to binge for three days.
Maybe I’m finally ready to growup up a little too (at 39) but I can no
longer hide behind, “I’m powerless.  I have all the power there is over my
choices in fact.

Oh yeah, and I had really intense therapy session too.  Anyway, it’s last.
Will respond more tomorrow to other’s posts.  Time to get four hours sleep.

Sean

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 1:57:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A Friend from Canada, Male, Mid thirties reports:

“i came down from 20mgs oxycodone and 4-6mgs dilaudid per day to just 3.75 mgs oxycodone/day doing a low dose regimen of 25-50mgs ibogaine hcl/day. it started out at 25mgs hcl/day and i immediately cut in half the pill intake, with absolutely no discomfort what-so-ever. after 6 days i increased the hcl to 40mgs, then at week 2 to 50mgs hcl/day. i am able to take micro doses (1.25mg) of oxycodone for the pain as the hcl potentiates the analgesic. i am aware and extremely careful of the dangers with escalating analgesic intake during this regimen. The goal with the oxycodone is to minimize if not end the need for it for pain management. The hcl seems to help with the pain, or at least gives me awareness to take better care of my body by stretching, drinking more water and to get outside for exercise and sunshine.

Most importantly the hcl has given me a feeling of well being and feeling comfortable in my place in the universe, allowing me to process thru a depression i have been suffering from. I feel GREAT. The darkness has lifted, the impending doom is cast away! The low dose regimen has also been extremely helpful in musical inspiration; songs I had half-written are coming to completion and new songs are being created. There is a distinct connection between ibo and rhythm / melody, and further underscores for me the important aspect of music in the Bwiti ceremonies.”

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:47:33 -0700 “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
wrote:
Can anyone elaborate on daily low dosing ?.

I have done a pinch of indra extract 1-3 times per week, which wore me
down physically over time. I stopped after about 2 months. It seemed
to ease me into an acceptance that I would not be having the quick recovery
I expected.

For protracted dosing, I think ayahuasca has the edge over ibogaine.

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – reply
Date: September 17, 2004 at 1:23:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick,

While I agree completely with the case where one unexpectedly gains a great deal with so called little intention, I would argue that intention can exist without one being consciously aware of its depth or without understanding that we actually do have the right intention as we may not be clear on what that all amounts to. (Classically we confuse our negative thoughts with who we are out of self hatred.)  In my book I think what I wrote here is born out by the story, the analysis and the insights.

Assuming you dump that last paragraph completely, for arguments sake. I can tell you this much. The completion of my healing is only working because I have the fullest intention to enter the deepest part of my pain in order to find what I seek and in doing so I am embraced more and more by the healing Eboga Spirit. This intention has manifested itself in a number of drastic changes I made to my life which come out during the story behind the books. I gave up pretty much all I had materially and emotionally and held onto the minimum. It was extremely painful but utterly necessary.

Perhaps one can say that Eboga will give everyone something – as they say: the first taste of the Grail is free but the second one comes at a price, i.e., Intention manifested by action.

OF COURSE: Just because nothing may happen in a given session does not mean one has bad intention. But intention that brings us into a daily inner dialog as we unravel, will also reap reward in the session. There are many factors to consider, not least whether you use capsules or powder… … I include the idea of intention to empower, not to judge.

I dont analyse my intention. I just live it as best I can in my commitment to the process. Its what has kept me going.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

I except this is your experience and whatever you have done has worked for you. In my book I add that there is more than one way home. This I simply deduce from the laws of probability and the creative nature of the Universe.

However I do not agree when you say there is no possibility of escape from this state of unhealing. Nick I almost faught with therapists who tried to get me to believe the same and also told me to control the child in me. Had I done so I would be perhaps now dead as I have undergone multiple serious abuse and personal isolation over many years and suffered very deep pain. I have also explored the world of belief that says nothing can be done except to accept.

I have in the past 6 years experienced real deep connected healing and self awareness resulting from 12 major sessions and over 30 mini sessions. I have seen each abuse slowly unravelled. I have gone from year to year deeper shocked by the truth of what I found and the deep pain it left me. This pain is stored in the body and slowly I let go of it through the time of integration. I have seen my life change incredibly because of my attitude. So something is working for me. I am also guided by the spiritual realm and keep a dream journal etc as I have received various instructions or confirmations this way.
BTW:

Pain is stored in the body emotionally, mentally (ego) and spiritually (soul).

Reality is about a balance between the ego and the soul and hence personal liberation in this life only comes through the healing of all parts. The ego is very important but it cannot be free until all the pain it suppresses is healed. I stand for freedom. And I work from the ground up unprejudiced and open to every possibility.

Dont believe me but this is what I believe and what I am experiencing.

I will say this though: It is F***King x 2 hard but not impossible……

never will be any possibility of escape from this

There is the question. I believe for me I am well on the way. But every soul is different and I cannot speak for everyone. Each path is different and each has their own relationship to God. I can only put my own experience across. And given the way Eboga has encouraged and inspired me endlessly in my writing I assume it agrees too with some of what I am writing – at least between the lines. What you say here reminds me of all the people I have known who kept telling me to settle down and get married before I really knew what I was looking for.

It certainly is difficult when we vehemently believe something. But it is not about blind belief. It is about faith first and foremost and with the proof of the pudding comes belief. Faith comes before Belief. My beliefs took 6 years to develop + a lifetime before. And, if there is nothing really to lose for someone in a miserable existence and all to gain, why not go for it? After my first session I had all the faith I needed to get started and maybe I should add another number now to my list:

The first session may give you the faith to do another.

With respect,

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 16 September 2004 14:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process

Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person’s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

Hi Lee,

I would certainly agree that intention is everything, but intention also develops naturally with awareness. Just taking ibogaine with very little awareness or intention can still catalyse massive change. It did for me in my first iboga experience. It’s great if you have the intention to heal, and I guess most people would not be drawn to use ibogaine were that not at least partially present, but to say it is needed is going too far.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

with love

Nick

2. Willingness to change:
Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has – the ‘I can have it all’ mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ‘all’ really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.
There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.
When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming – hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.
While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn’t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.
Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off – years.
9. Post session therapy
A good thing – emotional release / wise counselling – insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.
Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don’t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 1:16:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:41:44 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/17/04 1:37:31 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< I have done a pinch of indra extract 1-3 times per week, which
wore me
down physically over time. I stopped after about 2 months. It seemed
to ease me into an acceptance that I would not be having the quick
recovery I expected.

For protracted dosing, I think ayahuasca has the edge over ibogaine.

Hi,

Thanks for the information.  Can you be more specific in your description
of why you suggest ayahuasca over ibogaine.

It seems to enhance physical well-being, rather than being a load on
the body. One feels energised for about a week after. And mildly glowing
for another week after that. A single dose tends to last around 4 hours
(1-2 hours at peak), after which one can easily continue with the evening
or weekend. And you can redose for a longer experience without losing
effect (tho it will gradually starve you of sleep if this is carried
on over days). It is cheaper than iboga, perhaps as low as 10 euros a
dose.

The basic lessons are similar to ibogaine in my experience, but there
is a sense of tact and caring that allows one to integrate more gradually.

When you say that the ibogaine wore you down physically over two
months could you also be more specific with that also and let us
know exactly how it wore you down, what exact effects.

There was a feeling of being run-down, as in likely to catch colds. I
had a physical feeling of distaste, and a mild sense of being contaminated.
My impression is that it stresses muscles around the intestines, partly
thanks to observations of a body worker who didn’t know I was taking
it. I can’t rule out a psychological cause for all this, of course. Particularly
since I am still working on the issues that it has raised for me.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 12:48:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It will be interesting to see how you feel about ibogaine, if you try
it. What was the setting for your ayahuasca experience? I have tried
it alone but got the message to do it with people, and this has worked
very well for me.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:43:06 -0700 “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
wrote:
Hmmm……. I think ayahuasca had the edge on my sanity when I did
some years ago, but different folks……. Sjg.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion- Callie
Date: September 17, 2004 at 12:44:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Callie,

I knew the basics of
happiness best when I was  about
17 or 18 years old.

I hear ya, sistah!  Kind of like that song ” I knew
the truth at 17, that love was made for beauty
queens…”

It got all pushed aside and
cluttered up with  knowledge
acquired from school and college, other life
experiences and pushed  aside most
by love for narcotics.

Very aptly put…

Oh, that knowledge is still buried deep in my head.
Every now and then I
remember or see it in old pictures or it is brought
to my consciousness by a
smell or certain song.
Life was so much better before narcotic opiates!
Callie

Callie, this is one of the truest sentiments I have
ever heard expressed here- so honest, yet applicable
to most of us.  I don’t remember what it feels like to
be completely free of narcotics of some sort; it’s
been YEARS.  Years of our lives just seem to slip by,
whilst in a narcotic haze- this is my greatest regret,
in regards to developing a physical dependence on a
substance.

Thank you for sharing this with us, and oh- thank you
for inviting me to the list several days ago.  I
missed that email, and just read it a couple of
minutes ago.

love,
Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy with Maya-Ethno., root bark 3-6%
Date: September 17, 2004 at 12:34:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

I wanted to add some quick info to this topic of
debate:  I too, have taken low dose iboga therapy
(Maya Ethnobotanicals, root bark powder, 3-6%), almost
in a maintenance type fashion.  I experienced
absolutely no visionary element(no surprise), but was
aware of a mild, stimulant type buzz.  I could see how
the process would wear you down over several months,
as SLEEPING was not easy- it didn’t come naturally.

I can see why the Bwiti use it to hunt, as you can
stay awake for quite some time.  Also, I would usually
take about 100-300ml, whenever I felt a craving
starting to surface, and within 20-40 minutes, the
cravings were GONESKI!

Cheers,
Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book? another book
Date: September 17, 2004 at 12:25:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey there guys,

Another great book, albeit not on the topic of drugs:
” A Confederacy of Dunces”, by John Kennedy Toole.  I
laughed my butt off reading this one.  It is sooo
unfortunate that the man who wrote it committed
suicide at age 31- his mother got him published
posthumously…

Sorry if this book is standard knowledge…

Julie

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

I’ve not read that but I take it its worth reading.
Whats up with it? I’m
always looking for something good to read. Have you
read Prozac Nation Callie? I
think its Elizabeth Wurtzel who wrote it along with
another one I can’t think
of the name of. The other one I can’t think of the
title of is really good.
Its about her fight with stimulants (Ritalin amongst
others) and her struggle
with emotional problems all while trying to write a
book. Really good by my
standards but I’m not a writer I just know what I
like. I’m so codependent I fell
in love with her reading it.LOL  Kind of the other
side of the coin from
strong, intelligent women at the start but she comes
around real good. Very, very
intelligent, she had to work on being strong.
Randy

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 11:18:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/2004 4:23:03 AM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
“The more I learn, the more I realize how little I really know.”

I haven’t heard that one Julian but I know it is very true for me. I remember talking heart to heart with my Dad once when my first marriage was failing. I was crying and told him I wished I was an old ‘mountain woman’, barefooted, uneducated, married with 9 or ten kids. He said “lordy mercy, why do you say that?” I said that because these people are so happy! They know nothing as far as ‘book sense’ but are so damn happy!! They are happy the sun rises and everyone lived through the night. As long as the family is alive and healthy they are happy!!
I think Dave replied that when he was young he thought he knew it all. Well, I have realized I did! I knew the basics of happiness best when I was about 17 or 18 years old. It got all pushed aside and cluttered up with knowledge acquired from school and college, other life experiences and pushed aside most by love for narcotics.
Oh, that knowledge is still buried deep in my head. Every now and then I remember or see it in old pictures or it is brought to my consciousness by a smell or certain song.
Life was so much better before narcotic opiates!
Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 17, 2004 at 10:15:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know you did Hannah. I was trying to be sarcastic and I hope that came through. I really do hate confrontation for it ends up with my facing the most difficult part of life for me. I don’t know how to deal with anger at all. Usually I just hold it in and suppress it. Unfortunately every once in a while like a volcano, it will erupt and I have little control of it’s direction and intensity. When this happens, I have always just walked away to be alone and cry. Eventually, it stops and gets suppressed again indefinitely. Lately, I try to communicate anger in conversation so I don’t hold it in but that never goes well. People get angry that I am disagreeing with them or getting angry with them. In the end, it seems like I have to keep holding it in but most of my drug abuse is tied to feeling angry, when high, I never feel it and it is easy to suppress. I don’t think there is any way of handling this unless I am willing to not have any friends. That I do not wish! I don’t know………..

Sorry for the psych-rant…..Regards,

Julian

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 9:41:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/04 1:37:31 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< I have done a pinch of indra extract 1-3 times per week, which wore me
down physically over time. I stopped after about 2 months. It seemed
to ease me into an acceptance that I would not be having the quick recovery
I expected.

For protracted dosing, I think ayahuasca has the edge over ibogaine. >>

Hi,

Thanks for the information.  Can you be more specific in your description of
why you suggest ayahuasca over ibogaine.  Information of this nature is
important.

When you say that the ibogaine wore you down physically over two months could
you also be more specific with that also and let us know exactly how it wore
you down, what exact effects.

Thanks

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] getting records for treatment
Date: September 17, 2004 at 9:29:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, wasn’t it you who was talking about med records in the state of NY belonging to the patient? Could I just go to the hospital and get the test results they have from me? I don’t think you can do that in KY but I’m thinking you can here in NY. I have other records these are just newer.        Randy

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 8:43:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm……. I think ayahuasca had the edge on my sanity when I did some years ago, but different folks……. Sjg.
>From: <slowone@hush.ai>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy

>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:36:57 -0700

>

>On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:47:33 -0700 “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>

>wrote:

> >Can anyone elaborate on daily low dosing ?.

>

>I have done a pinch of indra extract 1-3 times per week, which wore me

>down physically over time. I stopped after about 2 months. It seemed

>to ease me into an acceptance that I would not be having the quick recovery

>I expected.

>

>For protracted dosing, I think ayahuasca has the edge over ibogaine.

>

>

>

>

>

>Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get

>secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

>

>Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger

>http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

>

>Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:

>http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

>

>

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bright lights, big city, head brightening
Date: September 17, 2004 at 8:22:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all.  I’m new too.  My heartman husband, Jeff, has
been lurking on this list for a while, and now I’m
coming on board to support his healing process.  Got
tired of him forwarding me all the “good posts,” so to
speak.  Fascinating list-community…

We couldn’t make the NYC gathering last night:  sorry
to miss meeting those of you on here who may have been
there.  (Like Sean.)  It’s a bit rough rallying in
from the outer boroughs on weeknights, but maybe
that’s our energetic holding pattern.

On the topic of therapy, I’ve been on a three month
break from my counselor of three years… in part
because she DIDN’T have an addictions background for
comprehending our various struggles.  Instad, I’ve
been journalling and reading… like Laura Archera
Huxley’s recipes for living and loving  in _You are
not the Target:   A Practical Manual of How to cope
with a world of bewildering Change,” and also just got
in the mail Christina Grof, The Thirst for Wholeness:
Attachment, Addiction, and the Spiritual Path.  That
one looks super good.  I’ve always read the Grofs
invoked in passing in other peoples’ work, so psyched
to have her words wrapped in its own package.

I’m a big fan of the second-hand books market for this
kind of stuff.  Found Claudio Naranjo’s out-of-print
Healing Journeys, for example, via a shopbot that
compares alibris, half, and two dozen other online
bookshops:  http://www.addall.com/  Not sure which are
best for eur or aus (or otherwheres) buying.

with love,
Rachel

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

I went to the city, met friends of ibo, met Dana and
Paul D,.and took the
last bus back to joisey.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book?
Date: September 17, 2004 at 6:25:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve not read that but I take it its worth reading. Whats up with it? I’m always looking for something good to read. Have you read Prozac Nation Callie? I think its Elizabeth Wurtzel who wrote it along with another one I can’t think of the name of. The other one I can’t think of the title of is really good. Its about her fight with stimulants (Ritalin amongst others) and her struggle with emotional problems all while trying to write a book. Really good by my standards but I’m not a writer I just know what I like. I’m so codependent I fell in love with her reading it.LOL  Kind of the other side of the coin from strong, intelligent women at the start but she comes around real good. Very, very intelligent, she had to work on being strong.        Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 17, 2004 at 5:38:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sure is.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:24 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Strong, Intelligent women bother us men?! Are you kidding?, Callie, that’s a turn on!!

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 17, 2004 at 5:24:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Strong, Intelligent women bother us men?! Are you kidding?, Callie, that’s a turn on!!

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 5:21:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, there is a saying by one of the great thinkers that says: “The more I learn, the more I realize how little I really know.” This is very true and you are definitely not alone.

Regards,

Julian

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Eboga Healing Process – Please attach notice
Date: September 17, 2004 at 4:45:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just a note to say I have put the same up (ie mechanism of the Eboga Healing Process which I call the Eboga Process) on my site under my healing page which I hope to develop a little more when time permits.

www.my-eboga.com/healing.html

Can you please take note of the copyright notice I placed there. It says:

“The following may be copied “unaltered” for personal use and without financial gain providing this copyright notice is attached. Copyright remains with the author.”

If anything is not clear feel free to contact me.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process
Date: September 17, 2004 at 4:19:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 16 September 2004 14:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process

Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person’s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

Hi Lee,

I would certainly agree that intention is everything, but intention also develops naturally with awareness. Just taking ibogaine with very little awareness or intention can still catalyse massive change. It did for me in my first iboga experience. It’s great if you have the intention to heal, and I guess most people would not be drawn to use ibogaine were that not at least partially present, but to say it is needed is going too far.

In my experience, the word “healing” itself is paradoxical in nature. The only healing exists is the total personal acceptance that there absolutely is NO HEALING – that everything experienced is simply who you are and that there never was and never will be any possibility of escape from this. Iboga, like therapy, and like addiction itself, are mere avenues that the psyche voyages down in the belief that there is some escape. When travelled, and seen for what they are, an acceptance, and a healing, may take place. The travelling is important. Whilst the belief that escape from ourselves is possible, it must be followed.

with love

Nick

2. Willingness to change:
Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has – the ‘I can have it all’ mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ‘all’ really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.
There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.
When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming – hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.
While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn’t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.
Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off – years.
9. Post session therapy
A good thing – emotional release / wise counselling – insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.
Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don’t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:46:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go – getting the ibo experience actualizing into a personal interaction
is the name of the game, in my book. It makes it live in the non-drug
reality of natural connections between people.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:45:16 -0700 UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
Oh yeah, and I had really intense therapy session too.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:40:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sigh.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:25:40 -0700 Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
OR
Come out be tenderly touched,come out to warmth,quiteness,
dim lights,placed on your mothers heart suckle on mothers breast
whilst listening to the rythum of her heartbeat.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 17, 2004 at 2:36:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:47:33 -0700 “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
wrote:
Can anyone elaborate on daily low dosing ?.

I have done a pinch of indra extract 1-3 times per week, which wore me
down physically over time. I stopped after about 2 months. It seemed
to ease me into an acceptance that I would not be having the quick recovery
I expected.

For protracted dosing, I think ayahuasca has the edge over ibogaine.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 17, 2004 at 1:45:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston.
,

Wherever you choose to grumble is a very personal decision I think.:) I find this list to be a great support as there are no harm reduction groups in the city, and I am sure not going to 12 step.  They will tell me that because I smoked weed tonight, it is no better than if I smoked crack, or shot heroin.

I went to the city, met friends of ibo, met Dana and Paul D,.and took the last bus back to joisey.  Before ibo, and harm reduction, I would have thought this impossible.
I was in the mindset one toke weed=permission to binge for three days.   Maybe I’m finally ready to growup up a little too (at 39) but I can no longer hide behind, “I’m powerless.  I have all the power there is over my choices in fact.

Oh yeah, and I had really intense therapy session too.  Anyway, it’s last. Will respond more tomorrow to other’s posts.  Time to get four hours sleep.

Sean

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For n
Date: September 17, 2004 at 1:35:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

n. ruhtra = nella ruhtra, mi nombre, nice to meat yew 😉

Hi I have to ask this, what is nruhtra I mean what
does it mean?

Love and the 3rd eye being blurry only lasts for
another week or two, then it gets better 😉

Carla B

— nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:

i have 16 “x” on my calander and appearntly 3 on my
forhead and my 3rd eye
is blurry . .

doing better,t hanks mate.
n
nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
dsskcorp.com/ibidem

I lost my emails of the last few days – and your
e-mail address with them.
How are you doing today?
Beatriz

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 11:25:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I suppose it depends on the type of therapist.
Pulled out,slapped on the arse,made to cry,shoved into bright lights cold
air
and introduced to pain.(just wanna go back).(The womb)
OR
Come out be tenderly touched,come out to warmth,quiteness,
dim lights,placed on your mothers heart suckle on mothers breast whilst
listening
to the rythum of her heartbeat.
Smiles. Jasen.

Therapy is, imo, a lot more likely to take you to a place where you’ll
develop the desire to confront that which is causing addictive behaviour.
It
can help you grow up. Being a junkie is pretty much the bottom of the
maturity pile. It’s more a point blank refusal to take yourself out of
your
comfort zone – it’s foetal, basically. At least when you come to therapy,
when you say “OK, I am fucked up and I do need help,” you’ve emerged from
the womb.

with love

Nick

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 11:15:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

growing maybe 5 good (I mean good
plants)
to make money off of it or it
Randy

In Australia, in one of our states, it is legal to grow 2 to 3
plants(Adelaide).
An ounce of bud in Aus is worth approx’$300 AU.

I live in Queensland and it will be many years before it is legal in
Queensland.
Smiles. Jasen (Aus)

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:55:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe you have hit the nail on the head.
Society cannot grasp,accept, or face the real reasons of prohibition,
such conspiracies are just ludicrous to most people,
unacceptable propaganda,so they say,
however,whether we believe it or not, this is what is happening.

A lot of our so called”respected members of society”
are not so respectable.
Smiles Jasen (Aus)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>; <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

Sara wrote >Legalize  is the best solution, I agree, but we know it will
not
happen, as long as . (we know already) .the pharmaceuticals industry is a
major income to  lots<

People usually don’t consider the other VERY BIG reason legalization is
still a loooooooong way off yet- the pharmacuetical companies are only a
small fraction of the problem.
What I personally believe is in many of the minds which count in this
regard, is the fact that if we do legalize currently illegal drugs, the
$490
billion a year in illegal drug profits (loosely estimated) that flows into
all kinds of legal markets, propping up banks and a multitude of
corporations and governments, will dry up, as drug prices will plumet and
black, untraceable fundage will no longer be flowing tax free into all
these
establishments. We will suffer a huge, crippling world-wide depression of
sorts, our economies as we know them today will no longer be alive and
functioning. The establishments need currently illicit drugs to remain
illegal as it has grown to depend upon the vast amounts of untaxed money
the
illegal drug markets generate to keep themselves going.
The War on Some Drugs and Users is so huge, so vast, so pervasive that
it touches almost every single aspect of our lives whether we realize it
or
not, whether it is blatant or subtle. But most of the prohibitionist
maniacs
at the very top, who insist that the war must continue, know what’s up and
know they’re propping up a sick and rotten system by continuing their war-
health, crime and safety issues mean nothing to most of them at all. It’s
all power and greed and a genuine fear of our current system’s collapse if
we do legalize drugs and loose all the money currently generated- money
that
HAS to end up in some bank or other at some point in time.
It sounds very dark and conspiratorial I know, but I do think there
are
some men and women in certain positions of power and influence that know
exactly what the score is and actually do, in some ways and others,
actively
work to insure the war on some drugs and users continues for their own
nefarious purposes.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For n
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:10:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi I have to ask this, what is nruhtra I mean what
does it mean?

Love and the 3rd eye being blurry only lasts for
another week or two, then it gets better 😉

Carla B

— nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:

i have 16 “x” on my calander and appearntly 3 on my
forhead and my 3rd eye
is blurry . .

doing better,t hanks mate.
n
nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
dsskcorp.com/ibidem

I lost my emails of the last few days – and your
e-mail address with them.
How are you doing today?
Beatriz

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Att: mcorcoran & list
Date: September 16, 2004 at 5:19:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi M, Sorry I didnt get your name. Thanks for the feedback. I would be very happy if you pass this out to whoever feels they need it on one condition: My full name and website address appear on any copy made.
Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 5:05:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick Sandberg wrote;
There’s no meaningful difference between, say,
> addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the

> awareness of

> what it’s like to be an addict.
I’ve never had therapy – I can’t afford it – but maybe the therapist offers the awareness of what it’s like not to be an addict (in my opinion, something easily forgotten)  I don’t mean enjoying  ‘excessive drug use’ or enjoying lots of substances per se, that can be a great part of life but being addicted and being sick of it . It has to be down to the empathy that the therapist/counsellor has with you and your wants and wishes plus the trust you have in that person to be able to create and rebuild a lust for life without glued on crutches – The free good counselling I have received has made me less arrogant about therapy, but then…each to their own. Sjonny.

 

>From: “Nick Sandberg”

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To:

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:20:16 +0100

>

>

>

> > —–Original Message—–

> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]

> > Sent: 16 September 2004 15:26

> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

> >

> >

> > Nick very astutely wrote >There no meaningful difference between, say,

> > addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the

> > awareness of

> > what it’s like to be an addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But

> > you’re still left facing the same shit at the end of the day.<

> >

> > Which pretty much sums up why I won’t go to group therapy, or any

> > “therapy”

> > in the current sense of the word as used here in this thread.

> >

>

>Therapy is, imo, a lot more likely to take you to a place where you’ll

>develop the desire to confront that which is causing addictive behaviour. It

>can help you grow up. Being a junkie is pretty much the bottom of the

>maturity pile. It’s more a point blank refusal to take yourself out of your

>comfort zone – it’s foetal, basically. At least when you come to therapy,

>when you say “OK, I am fucked up and I do need help,” you’ve emerged from

>the womb.

>

>with love

>

>Nick

>

> >

> > Peace and love,

> > Preston Peet

> >

> > “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often

> > mistaken for madness”

> > Richard Davenport-Hines

> >

> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com

> > Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.

> > 2004)

> > Cont. High Times mag/.com

> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

> > Columnist New York Waste

> > Etc.

> >

> >

> > —– Original Message —–

> > From: Nick Sandberg

> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:36 AM

> > Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

> >

> >

> >

> > —–Original Message—–

> > From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]

> > Sent: 15 September 2004 23:18

> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

> >

> > Personally I think that we as human beings

> > are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of

> > choice or no

> > choice,

> > People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort,

> > comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.

> > Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches

> > quickly like a mirror of the self.

> > The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being

> > is almost

> > as good as devotion to a life mission.

> > Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience

> > can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories

> > And fine peace with them.

> >

> > All the best,

> >

> > Sara

> >

> > Yeah, at the end of the day, everyone’s just doing something to take

> > themselves away from facing who they are. Addiction, work, comfort eating,

> > sex, therapy, seeking enlightenment, trying to save the world or make it a

> > better place, whatever – it’s all the same, just a refusal of the mind to

> > simply be. Seems like that only when awareness increases to the

> > point where

> > there actually arises a desire to stop the movement of the mind away from

> > being, to grow up and reject the impulse to escape, does this whole

> > “goingness” of the mind drop a bit.

> >

> > There no meaningful difference between, say, addiction and therapy. It’s

> > just that addiction only offers the awareness of what it’s like to be an

> > addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But you’re still

> > left facing

> > the same shit at the end of the day.

> >

> > with love

> >

> > Nick

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > /]=—————————————————————

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> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

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>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For n
Date: September 16, 2004 at 5:10:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i have 16 “x” on my calander and appearntly 3 on my forhead and my 3rd eye
is blurry . .

doing better,t hanks mate.
n
nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
dsskcorp.com/ibidem

I lost my emails of the last few days – and your e-mail address with them.
How are you doing today?
Beatriz

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 16, 2004 at 4:18:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/04 2:58:17 PM, sjonnygee@msn.com writes:

<< If someone after having Ibogaine treatment were (theoretically) to take
20/50mg hcl daily as a minor prolongation of their original dose, how long would
you expect them to do this and is there any danger of residual build up in
such a small amount ? (I understand everyone will have differing
results/experiences but I want to know if their are studies about this, does anybody use
these doses already?) I’m going to be treated with Ibogaine in the near future and
so it’s for myself that I’m asking about this – I want to be able to talk to
my provider about possibilities regarding this… Sjonny >>

Low dose ibogaine therapy has been experimented with since ibogaine’s
discovery as an antiaddictive agent in the 1960s.  I believe that Sara may use low
dose therapy as an adjunct to full therapeutic doses and I believe low dose
therapy was used at the Iboga Therapy House as well.  There is some discussion of
this in the Manual for Ibogaine Therapy http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html in
the Discussion section that can be found by viewing the table of contents.
Then select. Treatment Regimen and Dose.

Low dose iboga administration has been used in Africa most likely for 100s of
years as an aspect of participation in Bwiti rites.
http://www.ibogaine.org/fernandez.html

The effects of ibogaine as with all drugs should be monitored by the patient
and provider.  There are no classical scientific studies of low dose ibogaine
therapy.  If you are taking ibogaine only I think the there would be little
danger of residual buildup for most patients taking 25mg to 50mg per day.
However, as you indicate every patient is different and if you observe effects that
give you concern discontinue administration immediately and talk to your
provider. There may be a danger is you return to drug use while on low dose
therapy.  One persons pleasure may be another’s poison.

Your provider may have experience with low dose therapy.  Let us know what
they say.  There are many approaches to ibogaine therapy. How long you continue
low dose ibogaine therapy would be determined by the intent of the therapy and
the effects seen.

Howard

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From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] removal from list
Date: September 16, 2004 at 4:06:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Low dose ibogaine therapy
Date: September 16, 2004 at 3:47:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can anyone elaborate on daily low dosing ?. If someone after having Ibogaine treatment were (theoretically) to take 20/50mg hcl daily as a minor prolongation of their original dose, how long would you expect them to do this and is there any danger of residual build up in such a small amount ? (I understand everyone will have differing results/experiences but I want to know if their are studies about this, does anybody use these doses already ?) I’m going to be treated with Ibogaine in the near future and so it’s for myself that I’m asking about this – I want to be able to talk to my provider about possibilities regarding this… Sjonny .

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] health alert no.2
Date: September 16, 2004 at 3:27:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lets vote!

What is the chance that those kids (who are on kids drugs) are going to become an adult drug addict?

A. big chance.
B. Small chance.
C. No chance.
D. I don’t know.
************************************************************************************************************
Hey Jon F.

You are going to have lots and lots of work after you finish your study.

************************************************************************************************************

>HEALTH FREEDOM UNDER SERIOUS THREAT IN THE TOTALITARIAN STATE OF
>DENMARK

Talking about health freedom:

Mandatory Mental Health Screening Threatens Privacy, Parental Rights

by Wendy McElroy
by Wendy McElroy

On Sept. 9, the ‘Ron Paul Amendment’ was defeated in the House of Representatives by a vote of 95-315.

The Amendment would have prevented the funds sought by an appropriations bill (HR 5006) from being used for the mandatory mental-health screening of Americans, including public schoolchildren.

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, a practicing physician for more than 30 years, campaigned against the new program on the grounds that it negates parental rights and would encourage the over-medication of children.

Prior to the House vote, Paul had vehemently denounced mandatory mental-health screening in a letter to fellow congressmen.

Paul wrote, “[P]sychotropic drugs are increasingly prescribed for children who show nothing more than children’s typical rambunctious behavior. Many children have suffered harmful effects from these drugs. Yet some parents have even been charged with child abuse for refusing to drug their children. The federal government should not promote national mental-health screening programs that will force the use of these psychotropic drugs such as Ritalin.”
The idea of nationally screening school children for mental health stems from the establishment of the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health in 2002. Its mission is to “promote successful community integration for adults with a serious mental illness and children with a serious emotional disturbance.”

The commission conducted a “comprehensive study of the…health service delivery system,” which found mental health problems to be under-diagnosed.

A 2004 progress report outlines the government’s plan to assist those with disabilities, including mental health problems. The government intends to use government agencies and services – such as transportation, housing, and education “to tear down the remaining barriers to full integration [of the disabled] into American life.”

Thus, as WorldNetDaily reports, the commission’s panel “recommended comprehensive mental health screening for ‘consumers of all ages,’ including preschool children…Schools, the panel concluded, are in a ‘key position’ to screen the
52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.”

The public schools would address “the mental health needs of youth in the education system” through “prevention, early identification, early intervention, and treatment.” How early?
Many practical objections have been offered to the mental screening of the 52 million students and the 6 million adults at schools.

*   Mental health diagnoses are subjective and, to be of value, must be
formed by trained professionals who test and observe subjects over time. The expense and magnitude of screening 58 million people means diagnoses are likely to be made quickly and by poorly trained people.

*   The criteria for diagnosing mental disabilities such as Attention Deficit
Disorder (ADD) are vague and a matter of heated debate within the medical community itself.
*   Political pressure can make schools prone to over-apply social programs,
especially when they are connected to the continuation of funding.
*   Medicating children for behavioral problems could easily become a form of
social control. That is, school authorities could use medication to prevent behavior of which they simply disapproved, such as rebelliousness.
*   The screenings may be used to force parents to put their children on
psychiatric medication. Some parents who have refused to do so under current policies have been threatened or charged with “child abuse” for no other reason than their refusal.
*   Many of the psychiatric medications administered to children have been
only approved for and tested on adults. The long-term effect on developing children has yet to be determined.
*   The known side effects can be severe. Indeed, at least two deaths have
been attributed to prescribing Ritalin to children.

Critics also raise matters of principle. First and foremost is the question of parental rights. It is not clear what rights – if any – parents preserve over the medical treatment of their children. Will they be threatened with the removal of their child if they refuse to place a son or daughter on Ritalin?

Will children who resist medication be expelled from a school that is supported by their parents’ taxes? If so, the government seems to be telling parents that education is a privilege for which parents must not only pay but for which they must also surrender medical control over their children.

And what of medical privacy rights? It defies credibility that psychiatric records on tens of millions of school children would be covered by anything resembling patient-doctor confidentiality. Public school records that include intimate details of medical history may well follow children into adulthood.

Accusations have also been voiced: specifically, that the program is driven by political-pharmaceutical alliances that benefits drug companies.

Critics point to the fact that the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) has been used as a model program.

But, according to whistleblower Allen Jones, an employee of the Pennsylvania Office of the Inspector General, TMAP promotes “a comprehensive national policy to treat mental illness with expensive, patented medications of questionable benefit and deadly side effects, and to force private insurers to pick up more of the tab.”

The bill has moved onto the Senate, where it will be heard before the end of the year.
Even for those who advocate the medication of problem children, this measure contains too many uncertainties and possibilities of abuse.

Hopefully, the Senate will find a champion to call out for an amendment similar to that proposed by Rep. Ron Paul.

September 16, 2004
Wendy McElroy [send her mail] is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, Liberty for Women:
Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002).
Copyright © 2004 Wendy McElroy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:36:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon noted >I’m sure they’ve considered that… but they must make even more
than that
from the alcohol lobbies and criminal costs.<

I think “they” make a LOT more off marijuana (and the rest) being illegal
than they ever will off simply taxing it or even selling it
themselves-although if they simply took over the trade and left prices where
they are at now, they’d possibly make much of what they make now, sans all
the extra prohibition tariffs they get now.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

The amount of money the gov’t could make if pot was legalised and taxed is
staggering..

Think about it.. round here anyway, decent stuff goes for about $50 an
1/8th. 95% (or more) of that price is from inflation due to the black
market. The product itself is probably worth something like $1 an 1/8th,
maybe even less. I pay about $3 for an ounce of premium rolling tobacco,
and pot’s easier to grow than tobacco.

So let’s say the gov’t legalises it, and prices it at $30 an 1/8th. That
would generate $29 in tax revenue. That would mean they’d make %3000 of
its value in taxes.

I’m sure they’ve considered that… but they must make even more than that
from the alcohol lobbies and criminal costs.

I’ve been thinking about a lot of stuff in preparation and this topic
brings
back an old idea I had. We all know that if just cannabis were to be
legalized
Uncle Sam would have to figure out how to get their cut first. The
alcohol
lobbies are very powerful and they spend bucks making sure pot isn’t
legalized.
Big bucks. How bout we give Uncle Sam 500 bucks at tax time for the
right
to
grow. We could even let the IRS thinks its their idea. 500 bucks for a
stamp
that keeps you from getting popped for growing maybe 5 good (I mean good
plants)
at all times in your house. Do the math. I know it would probably never
happen but the government is going to have to make money off of it or it
will never
happen. The Man got to get paid or we aint got a chance. Its all about
money.
Duh     Randy

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:32:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

I only meant it in the nicest possible sense!  I just don’t like confrontation so usually I stay out of disputes, remember we’re all fucked up here 😉

Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list

Hello Hannah. You ‘dared’ to say it!? I guess agreeing with me or one of my viewpoints is difficult and I just don’t know this. It only goes to show that I’m more fucked up than I already know I am! Thanks for not letting me be too alone!

Regards,

Julian

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:20:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 16 September 2004 15:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Nick very astutely wrote >There no meaningful difference between, say,
addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the
awareness of
what it’s like to be an addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But
you’re still left facing the same shit at the end of the day.<

Which pretty much sums up why I won’t go to group therapy, or any
“therapy”
in the current sense of the word as used here in this thread.

Therapy is, imo, a lot more likely to take you to a place where you’ll
develop the desire to confront that which is causing addictive behaviour. It
can help you grow up. Being a junkie is pretty much the bottom of the
maturity pile. It’s more a point blank refusal to take yourself out of your
comfort zone – it’s foetal, basically. At least when you come to therapy,
when you say “OK, I am fucked up and I do need help,” you’ve emerged from
the womb.

with love

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:36 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 15 September 2004 23:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

Personally I think that we as human beings
are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of
choice or no
choice,
People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort,
comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.
Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches
quickly like a mirror of the self.
The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being
is almost
as good as devotion to a life mission.
Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience
can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories
And fine peace with them.

All the best,

Sara

Yeah, at the end of the day, everyone’s just doing something to take
themselves away from facing who they are. Addiction, work, comfort eating,
sex, therapy, seeking enlightenment, trying to save the world or make it a
better place, whatever – it’s all the same, just a refusal of the mind to
simply be. Seems like that only when awareness increases to the
point where
there actually arises a desire to stop the movement of the mind away from
being, to grow up and reject the impulse to escape, does this whole
“goingness” of the mind drop a bit.

There no meaningful difference between, say, addiction and therapy. It’s
just that addiction only offers the awareness of what it’s like to be an
addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But you’re still
left facing
the same shit at the end of the day.

with love

Nick

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:12:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The amount of money the gov’t could make if pot was legalised and taxed is
staggering..

Think about it.. round here anyway, decent stuff goes for about $50 an
1/8th. 95% (or more) of that price is from inflation due to the black
market. The product itself is probably worth something like $1 an 1/8th,
maybe even less. I pay about $3 for an ounce of premium rolling tobacco,
and pot’s easier to grow than tobacco.

So let’s say the gov’t legalises it, and prices it at $30 an 1/8th. That
would generate $29 in tax revenue. That would mean they’d make %3000 of
its value in taxes.

I’m sure they’ve considered that… but they must make even more than that
from the alcohol lobbies and criminal costs.

I’ve been thinking about a lot of stuff in preparation and this topic
brings
back an old idea I had. We all know that if just cannabis were to be
legalized
Uncle Sam would have to figure out how to get their cut first. The alcohol
lobbies are very powerful and they spend bucks making sure pot isn’t
legalized.
Big bucks. How bout we give Uncle Sam 500 bucks at tax time for the right
to
grow. We could even let the IRS thinks its their idea. 500 bucks for a
stamp
that keeps you from getting popped for growing maybe 5 good (I mean good
plants)
at all times in your house. Do the math. I know it would probably never
happen but the government is going to have to make money off of it or it
will never
happen. The Man got to get paid or we aint got a chance. Its all about
money.
Duh     Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 1:53:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been thinking about a lot of stuff in preparation and this topic brings back an old idea I had. We all know that if just cannabis were to be legalized Uncle Sam would have to figure out how to get their cut first. The alcohol lobbies are very powerful and they spend bucks making sure pot isn’t legalized. Big bucks. How bout we give Uncle Sam 500 bucks at tax time for the right to grow. We could even let the IRS thinks its their idea. 500 bucks for a stamp that keeps you from getting popped for growing maybe 5 good (I mean good plants) at all times in your house. Do the math. I know it would probably never happen but the government is going to have to make money off of it or it will never happen. The Man got to get paid or we aint got a chance. Its all about money. Duh     Randy

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 16, 2004 at 1:32:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: digital@phantom.com

[Strassman study]

If I remember right, they conducted it in a clinical setting in
order to be completely objective, researchers in white coats?, and
wow, most? if not every ‘subject’ had visions that they were being
examined by aliens! So the study concluded that this was a hallmark
of the DMT experience. Mind you, aliens or elves or angels or plant
spirits or what-have-you otherworldly beings are commonly reported
from a variety of ayahuasca venues (see the picture book Ayahuasca
Visions by LE Luna and Pablo Amaringo), but the uniformity of
Strassman’s aliens reminded me of the clinical uniforms.

Speaking of aliens and uniformity, note the presence of uniforms
and face makeup in Bwiti ceremonies, the Catholic school uniforms
of Santo Daime, and the generic white dress of many other ayahuasca
settings.

Just gniyas asiyng saying 🙂

Bill

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 16, 2004 at 1:02:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wrote Randy in lighthearted tone >I think this is the first time I was ever
glad I’m a little over weight.LOL<

I’m one of those people who can’t seem to gain much weight no matter what I
do, no matter how much I stuff myself and hurt myself overeating (which I
must admit ain’t that often). I get so frustrated hearing people say, “I
gain pounds just lookin’ at a piece of cake,” when I myself break about even
eating the whole darn cake. I’ve gone through a lot of discomfort at
different times about my body weight, image issues, ego issues really. I’m
in a fairly comfortable with it stage lately though.
But I am really, really thin. Always have been and probably always will be.
Hence, I suppose there’s something to the ibo wearing off quickly and (yes
Howard, I know most all drug effects wear off-most for most people that is,
but there’re exceptions to every rule, happy ones and otherwise-I never
thought otherwise. Although I was thinking not “gosh when is it going to
wear off” in anticipatory terms at any point after the 36 hour point let’s
say, but rather, “wow, I like this sorta-mushroomy feeling with all these
rainbows and my light happy glowy mood thing, I could live like this always
with no trouble at all,” instead) noribogaine not hanging out long without
the bodyfat theories. I’ve never expected ibogaine to “put me right,”
(although there was I must admit the wishful thinking in the back of my
mind) but rather hoped and found it to be about what I expected- something
wonderful and mysterious and new and interesting and amazing and earth/life
shaking (to me I mean all this) but still just another tool that allowed me
to see and think in ways I mightn’t have even considered seeing/thinking
before ibogaine- a tool that will not continue affecting me if I don’t keep
using it- and I don’t see that being exactly easy to do in terms of supply
and even more importantly fundage problems, not to mention that whole pesky
and ultra-irritating legality issue thing.
I’m very reminded of people who took part in a study conducted by Rick
Strassman in New Mexico a few years ago, in the only government-sanctioned
DMT studies conducted in the US in the last 20 years at least. He wrote
about it in his book DMT- The Spirit Molecule. Most of those who
participated as subjects and were given DMT intravenously found they were
very drastically affected by their experiences, often moved in very dramatic
ways to change life patterns and how they thought about things. (I don’t
think Strassman looked at addiction interruption though, or at least I don’t
remember that being part of his study or focus at all.) But most also said
that the feelings of immediacy and the feelings of urgency about their need
to change or better themselves or broaden their horizons or whatever it was
they’d felt impelled to do faded over the subsequent months or even weeks,
that it stopped feeling so urgent. Many interestingly also noted they would
not want to repeat the experiences if I’m remembering correctly, although
some found they would and do subsequent to taking part in the study take
psychedelics on occasion, like shrooms, to “realign” or something along
those lines. Again, I think I’m remembering this correctly. I am definitely
remembering correctly the comments about how their feelings inspired by
their DMT experiences faded, that it stopped feeling so up close and
personal. I guess that goes for most any human experience, no matter how
magical or special unless I remind myself every so often of that
feeling/experience. Then I think of my problem addictions or use patterns
and think, wait a minute, that’s what I do with other drugs but much more
often than I do these days with psychedelics.
Ok, I’m starting to babble here, and am loosing any train of thought or
point to what I’m writing.
I’m climbing back into my box now. Go away. Yer all figmints anyway.
Same as me.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla

Preston, I think that is the best and most honest reason for not going to
that group I could imagine. I aint sayin don’t go but, anyone could see the
logic in that. As for the noribogaine leaving I bet you have almost no body
fat. I’ve been reading up and what Howard and Patrick are saying is in all
the info but you probably know that. I think this is the first time I was
ever glad I’m a little over weight.LOL        Randy

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] no noribogaine for you, skinny minny!! 🙂
Date: September 16, 2004 at 12:18:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi group,

I agree with this statement.  I’m also a skinny minny,
and found the effects of the drug exited quite fast- I
had expected to feel great for a month, was more like
7 days, tops.  I’m wondering if my metabolism was also
the cause for the mediocre results I achieved with
Ibo.

I found, for some strange reason, ALCOHOL consumption
could restart some of the trails and visual
hallucinations; methadone, interestingly enough, does
NOT.

Julie

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Patrick noted >But, uhm, to just SHARE my own
personal subjective
observations…  If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT
glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days.  Maybe a
week, 10 days
tops.  And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of
Wishful Thinking.<

And what do you know, I have extremely low body fat.
In other words, I ain’t
fat by any stretch of the imagination and have no
fat on my body anywhere at
all. (I’m lucky to even have the teeny buttcheecks I
have now. And they’re
new too.)
;-))
But I Have to say, I am STILL getting trails at odd
moments. Real trails,
not just traces but trails. They don’t last long,
usually only a second or
three, but they are very apparent when they happen.
That said, back to the body fat/no glow feeling
in very short order
equation. I have been feeling angry and irritable
and unsociable and
frustrated….But I guess I already said this in the
last note, so never
mind.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re:
[ibogaine] aftercare, a
discussion

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com
wrote:

Not really in response to your subject but, I am
uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be
long lasting.  Possibly,
Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication
showing the administration
of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that
the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared
quickly and that the
long lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due
to ibogaine being
sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at
is released.
Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than
ibogaine and that may
be the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer
periods after administration
of the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat.  C know eviL .
here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective
observations…  If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT
glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days.  Maybe
a week, 10 days
tops.  And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of
Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For n
Date: September 16, 2004 at 12:10:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

nruhtra@dsskcorp.com

Beatriz Brasil <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com> wrote:
I lost my emails of the last few days – and your e-mail address with them.
How are you doing today?
Beatriz

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Eric
Date: September 16, 2004 at 11:55:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, the same thing. Lost the email and your adress with it. Please forward.
Thank you Beatriz
From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Julie
Date: September 16, 2004 at 11:55:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please forward the email you wrote to me again. I lost it and the address you sent me with it. Sorry. Beatriz
From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For n
Date: September 16, 2004 at 11:47:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I lost my emails of the last few days – and your e-mail address with them.
How are you doing today?
Beatriz
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 11:36:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny you should mention this Howard, in light of the following very
interesting if just a wee bit disturbing article, just posted on the DrugWar
list bright and early this morning.

—–
ever see that old movie where steve martin is a brain surgeon who pioneers
the ‘cranial screwtop’ method for transplanting brains?  -vig

http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/shufflebrain.html

SHUFFLE BRAIN

Originally published in the May, 1972 issue of Harper’s Magazine (vol. 244,
No. 1464), this article won the 1972 Medical Journalism Award of the
American Medical Association and was featured on 60 Minutes in August, 1973.
The author is now a Professor Emeritus at Indiana University, Bloomington.

PUNKY WAS A SALAMANDER. Or at least he had the body of a salamander. But his
cranium housed the brains of a frog. I’d spent an entire season at the
fringe of his clear-water world, asking who he was, with the neural juice of
a totally different animal racing around inside, turning him on, tuning him
in to his environment at a wave band beyond a normal salamander’s spectrum.
The answers, borne by his actions, flattened my scientific detachment, I
confess.
Punky was only one in a long and varied series of brain transplants,
experimental tests of the holographic theory, a theory about the language of
the brain, a scientific treatment of nothing less than memory itself–the
watering hole on the great subjective plain where thoughts and dreams, hopes
and fears, pride and guilt, love and hate must drink to live, or else dry
up, to vanish, like bone dust.
Years before, in Philadelphia, when I was first learning how to do
operations like those on Punky, I was an instructor in a gross- anatomy
dissecting lab. Class met in the afternoon. Insecure in my grip on what was
then a newly acquired subject, I went in early each morning to do a
dissection of my own. With class in session, the place roiled with the
hurly-burly of people, alive and busy. But in the morning, when I arrived,
it was silent, a room of death in the most complete sense of the word. Ugly
gray light glared in through frosted windows and, without color, illuminated
the rows of rag-swaddled, tarp-wrapped cadavers. It wasn’t frightening; it
was lonely, the loneliest place I’d ever seen. Its tables were the biers of
the world’s unwanted, unremembered, unclaimed–as people. And they’d been
forgotten long before their corpses were hoisted up and flopped naked on the
diener’s soapstone prep table. Nameless now, serial-numbered metal-ring tag
tied around big toe, dirt still under cracked nail or maybe half-peeled-away
red or pink nail polish. Valuable, in death, as things. Valueless before, as
people. They were the unloved dead . For to be loved is to be remembered.
They were the unhated dead, for the same abstract reasons. The unremembered
dead, the truly dead. For memory is our claim to identity, and when it
stops, we are no more.
At the end, when we were finished, my department held funeral services for
the bodies. I went. But I went with a generalized grief that I carried back
whole because my memory found no place to assign any part of it.
Still, in time, I did forget the details. But Punky revived my memories of
those mornings back in Philadelphia. That’s probably why I gave him a name.
For the Existent of Punky and his pals didn’t stop with salamanders and
frogs. It included my own species.
CUTTING AWAY THE MIND
I will be talking here about the neural hologram, but I really should speak
of brain information–a holologic principle, not only memory of past
experiences. For the theory seeks to explain all the brain’s stored
programs, whether learned or wired in during embryonic life. It covers the
mental yardgoods we unwrap to tailor “go: no-go” in reflexes. It supplies
the cash for complex, reasoned associations. It works when the brain issues
instructions to tune the A-string on a viola, or to make the baby cry
because the milk is sour.
But holographic theory deals with the mode of neural messages, not specific
molecules, mechanisms, or cells, as such. Like a multiplication or counting
system, it commits grand polygamy with place and time and circumstance. It
treats the how rather than the who–like gravity acting on the apple,
instead of the meat, the freckles, or the worm.
The holographic theory had its crude origins in the 1920s when psychologist
Karl Lashley began a lifelong search through the brain for the vaults
containing memory. By then, students of behavior had been readied for angry
debate by a paradox that had begun to emerge on the surgical tables of the
nineteenth century. Clearly, the mental world had its biological base in the
brain. Yet war, disease, and the stroke of the scalpel had robbed human
brains of substance without necessarily expunging the mind. Lashley carried
the problem to the laboratory and pursued it with precision tools, mazes,
rats, controls, statistics.
Lashley also brought along the knife. With it, he found he could dull memory
in proportion to the amount of cerebrum he cut out. But if he left a rat
with any cerebrum at all, the animal could still remember. Not only did he
fail to amputate memory, but one area of the cortex would serve it as well
as another. He came to two controversial conclusions: intensity of recall
depends on the mass of brain, but memory must be divvied up equally. “Mass
action” and “equipotentiality” became his theme.
“Equibull!” a neuroanatomist friend of mine once declared. For the knives
and battery poles of others had struck and dug into what seemed to be the
specific loci of sight, scent, sound. Moreover, no clear and obvious
physical precedent existed for equipotentiality. “I’m a scientist,” my
friend used to say, “not a goddamn Ouija board operator!”
But in 1948 physicist Dennis Gabor, trying to improve the electron
microscope, accidentally stumbled over the optical hologram, a discovery
that earned him the Nobel Prize in 1971. Lensless, 3-D photography was born.
Within twenty years, the same principles had been extended to the brain.
Holograms take getting used to–like the idea that light can be both waves
and particles, or that a curve gets you more quickly from star A to star B
than Euclid’s straight line. It’s like getting accustomed to the notion that
energy and mass are different ways of saying the same thing, or that time
might shrink and expand. For holograms package information in a form
disguised from our common sense, invisible behind the nominalistic curtains
of our culture. But with patience, and a little open-mindedness, the
intuition soon begins to drink up the principles–like relativity after
Einstein or the shape of the earth after Columbus.
Familiar modes of information, even as complicated codes, reduce to bit
parts, held, stored, according to the summum bonum of home economics and
gross anatomy: “A place for everything, and everything in its place!” Not so
a hologram (holo means whole). In it, the entire shtick of information,
tamped down into a minuscule transcendental code, repeats itself, whole,
throughout whatever the system happens to be. Trim a hologram down to a tiny
chip and the message still survives, whole, waiting only to be decoded. One
piece will work as well as another. But the fewer the parts used in
decoding, the less intense the regenerated image. In other words, holograms
work in precisely the same way that the memories in Lashley’s rats did–
mass action and equipotentiality.
Gabor’s discovery was for years a scientific curiosity, unknown outside a
small circle of physicists. It remained so until the advent of laser
technology. Holograms in physical media depend on coherent, orderly waves.
To do anything other than just look at holograms, the waves must be fairly
powerful. Laser beams not only have this property but they can be made very
coherent.
Holography itself has bloomed into a new technology. There are even such
people as holographers nowadays. They construct physical holograms for a
living, and they are paid well to do so because the hologram may be the
method of sending and storing information in the future.
To construct a physical hologram, a holographer uses two sets of waves. He
shines one set through an object. He angles the other to miss the object but
to collide with the waves that have passed through. He then collects the
results of the collision on film or a cathode ray tube. His record, the
hologram, represents the reaction between the distorted and undistorted
waves.
In appearance, physical holograms resemble Platonic ideas of a shivering
tiger or zebra or the signature of an artist suffering the shakes of a bad
whiskey hangover. But the holographer can regenerate an image of the
original object by retracing his construction procedures.
A hologram captures not a thingy thing. It captures rules–a harmonic
syllogism, a holologic. And it is the stored record of Hegelian skid marks
produced when points and counterpoints bang into each other, physical or
numerical, concrete or abstract. Mathematics in reverse. Indeed, they take
getting used to. But the glory of holograms glows through during decoding
back to the original image, when they not only behave like Lashley’s rats
but reveal feature upon feature of human brain function.
Holographers can construct, say, acoustical holograms and call back the
original, not with sound, but with light or waves in some other form. Thus,
built into holographic grammar is the automatic mechanism to shift gears,
instantly, from one modality to another– how, for example, you can listen
to someone and write what you hear him say as fast as you can work the
muscles in your hand.
Such rapid, whole-scene shifts, involving forests of data, would be out of
the question with the conventional message that must be translated bit by
bit. In a hologram, it’s all part and parcel of the principle. And the same
thing shows up again in adding and modifying holograms. Holographers can
construct multicolored, composite holograms, in steps, by adjusting wave
length, thus mimicking how we might anneal present and past into a totality.
Or they can de code several holograms of the same thing into a multicolored
original. In the process they can even change colors. When the brain does
these things on its munificent scale, we talk in terms of abstract reasoning
or imagination. And in this capacity the human brain outshines the largest
digital computers. For computers digest bits. But the brain’s motifs are
informational wholes that can meld and blend without the go-between of a
finger-counting bureaucrat.
The flexible rules of holography even allow, automatically, for a
subconscious, a bad word in my own particular profession. But consider an
optical hologram. In decoding, it’s possible to select a wavelength
invisible to the naked eye, yet of sufficient energy to burn a monogram
permanently onto the retina of an unwary onlooker. As with the subconscious,
you don’t have to see its wounds to ache from them.
Holographic theory would also explain the chemical transfer of memory–how
information from the brain of one worm, rat, mouse, or hamster might be
extracted into a test tube and injected into another animal, there to
mediate recall in the absence of the recipient’s previous experience. Such
reports from a dozen laboratories over the past few years have excited the
press and reading public. But in conventional scientific circles, I’ve heard
them called such things as “oozings from the stressed seams of cracked
pots.” Yet a hologram can write itself into anything, including a molecule.
At the very same time, the theory in no way at all restricts the brain’s
programs to molecules, as such. There’s no rule against using, say,
molecules, voltages on cells, or groups of neurons to carry the information.
The program might even be carried at many different levels simultaneously.
Just who deserves credit as the first to apply holographic principles to the
brain I’m going to allow historians of science to fight out. Lashley, of
course, saw them at work in his rats and had both the genius and the courage
to describe what nature showed. Certain of Pavlov’s conclusions look
holological. Gabor’s powerful mind must have snared the notion the moment he
tripped on the optical effect. Years later, in fact, he published a
mathematical scheme of reminiscing. Philip Westlake, a brilliant UCLA
cyberneticist, has shown that equations of physical holograms match what the
brain does with information. Karl Pribram and an army of colleagues at
Stanford’s medical school have invested a decade and a thousand monkeys,
using the theory to work out details of how living brains remember.
Predictably, holographic talk provokes hot controversy. I recall not long
ago delivering a lecture on the subject, when out of the audience jumped a
neuropharmacologist, trembling with rage, demanding to know: “How can you
account for something like Broca’s area?” He was referring to a part of the
cerebrum known for 100 years to be vulnerable to stroke accompanied by the
loss of speech. I cleared my throat to answer. But before I had the chance,
a young psychophysicist, sprawled in a front-row seat, whipped his
shoulder-length mane around and fired back, “You can’t draw beer out of a
barrel without a bung!”
It was a perceptive reply. For in holographic theory, functional centers
such as Broca’s area represent processing stations rather than storage
depots. Rage, fear, hunger centers, the visual cortex at the back of the
brain, or auditory areas at the sides–these would act not to house
specialized information but to pump it in or to call out programs in the
form, say, of snarl, smile, utterance, equation, kiss, or thought. And sharp
lines of distinction between innate and acquired information fade as far as
storage itself is concerned. Still, the theory does not completely rule out
uneven distribution of memory, particularly in the complex brains of higher
animals. Indeed, it is not hard to make a case for different storage within
the two hemispheres of the human cerebrum. Michael Gazzaniga recently
published an intriguing book on what has been known for almost twenty years
as “split-brain” research. Begun in the early 1950s by Meyers and Sperry at
Cal Tech, the technique involves cutting the corpus callosum, a broad thick
strap of nerve fibers between the hemispheres. Success in the lab with cats
and monkeys prompted neurosurgeons to split the corpus callosum in the human
brain. They did so to alleviate violent, prolonged, drug-resistant grand mal
epileptic seizures, and they had remarkable success, medically. But the
patients emerged from surgery with two permanently disconnected
personalities. With more such operations, the left cerebral hemisphere
emerged as the dominant, verbal, arithmetic side, while the right brain held
recollections of form and texture. The tendencies appear to hold whether
patients were left- or right-handed. Early in 1971, music was found among
the repertoire of the right hemisphere. Yet the outcome of split-brain
surgery has never been absolute, nor the individual patient’s subsequent
behavior totally predictable. Both hemispheres can generate music in some
people, and the right may have a vocabulary. In addition, a totally
illiterate right hemisphere can learn to read and write in less than six
months–as though it had a tremendous head start. On top of this,
Gazzaniga’s observations convince him that the consignment of memories to
one side of the brain emerges with maturity. Children seem to employ both
hemispheres. Thus it would seem that the brain can reshape its contents and
make decisions about what will go where. But it is also quite possible that
split-brain research identifies not unequal storage but unequal access. Like
the reflected image of a written message, meaning would stay the same but
translation would entail different steps. The cerebral hemispheres, after
all, do mirror rather than carbon-copy each other.
At any rate, the brains of human beings and our close relatives seem to be
many brains, orchestrated by virtue of connections like the corpus callosum.
Moreover, our multisystem cranial contents seem to be in flux,
physiologically. Different lights can flash off and on, moment to moment.
Some of the switches lie under our direct control; others are no more within
our deliberate, intellectual reach than the impulses driving a hungry shark
or an amorous jackrabbit. Holographic theory does not deny conclusions of
split-brain research. But it insists that, whatever the system used for
storage, the information shall be layered in whole and repeated throughout.
It denies that memory depends on minced-up and isolated bits filed in
specific pigeonholes. Just what happens to be going on inside a brain when
it’s loading up with a particular hologram may determine which areas may and
may not act as targets– or how vivid the reconstructed scene becomes during
some later translation into conscious form.
THEORIES AND EXPERIMENTS
It’s one thing, though, to use a theory to draw complex sets of data or
weird collections of observations into a larger body of knowledge. It’s
quite another to subject a theory to logically valid, epistemologically
sound laboratory experiments. Personally, I think it’s legitimate to employ
a theory without really bothering with formal tests and even to nurture
belief in its truth based on its usefulness. For theories supply powerful
intellectual tools. Those that don’t work very well become ornaments if
they’re beautiful, junk otherwise.
However, the theory that holographic principles could account for
neural-information storage was testable. Before getting into those tests, we
need to talk some about theory and experiments. For they belong to very
different realms.
Theories are perfectible and can be made ubiquitous within confines set down
by their inventor. When they try to say something about physical things,
they reach for the harmony and simplicity in nature, for a side of it the
inveterate experimentalist believes he can comprehend by observation. To
some biologists, for example, the Cell is a fiction. Only cells exist. At
best, the theorist regards experience as a start on the road to truth, as
Einstein did. At worst, the theorist might tell you that God contrived
experience to pollute man’s view of the truth. Whatever the experimenter
concludes, the theorist seeks an ever-larger synthesis. For the particulate,
nominalistic character of an experiment means that it cannot extend far
enough and spread out wide enough to cover the expanse of a theory. Thus
explanation demands theory.
Even so, because experiments take place in experience, they keep the
experimenter alive to a side of nature that theory misses– its variety, its
individuals. Theory would turn nature into a peneplain, smooth, unenriched,
simpler as the theory reaches higher and higher abstraction until even a
speck of dust would become something to cherish. Experience returns hair,
lips, smiles, surprises. Experience is where doves coo, horses snort, and
robins lay little blue eggs. We spend most of our time, mentally, where
experiments go on. And if there is some harmonious thread weaving through
the universe, we still have a right to want to connect the abstract world
and the world we call real.
How is this done? By poking around in theoretical constructs for testable
predictions: if such and such a theory is “true,” then such and such an
outcome will happen. This is how experiments come in; they are ways of
setting a trap for the predictable elements of a theory–the parts of it
that make the rules credible to the human mind.
My purpose in working with Punky and his pals was to make or break my faith
in the holographic theory of neural storage. And I was a skeptic, at the
outset.
When I began this work the only prima facie experimental evidence to link
the general theory involving holographic principles to brains had come from
ablation studies–subtracting from brain substance. Subtraction is an
incomplete test. To see the incompleteness is to see how the salamanders
relate to the theory. Thus, let’s spend a little time doing a few imaginary
experiments.
Imagine several hundred Xerox copies of this unholographic page, but
reproduced on transparent plastic sheets. Now stack the sheets so that each
letter, word, and line forms a perfect overlay with its replicates below.
Now subtract a sheet–two, three, or any number, for that matter–only
keeping the stack straight. What happens? Loss or unevenness in density,
perhaps. But as long as we keep the equivalence of one page, we preserve the
message. The reasons are obvious. First, we’re working with a system
containing a redundant message. Secondly, when we eliminated some parts, we
merely allowed what was beneath to shine through. But we certainly don’t
have a holographic system. This is how I viewed the results of ablation
studies.
Let’s try another series of experiments with the transparencies. Let’s throw
the pile up in the air, arrange some of the sheets in a new order, cut some
of the sheets into pieces and reglue the pieces randomly–reshuffle, in
other words. Now we would distort the message and know it very quickly. Why?
Meaning in a conventional message ( or pattern ) depends on relationships
among parts and subparts–sets and subsets. When we scrambled relationships,
when we messed up the system’s anatomy, we wrenched the carriers of meaning.
We might also have done this by adding a transparency with a different
message. But when we merely took away parts from our redundant system, we
created empty sets and voided rather than distorted relationships.
But suppose the linotype operator had set a hologram? Then our reshuffling
experiments would have produced far different results. We would not have
introduced changes in the meaning of the message. For in a hologram meaning
lies within–not among–any sets we might produce by simple physical means.
And in reshuffling we would be shifting whole messages around, exchanging
their positions without really getting at components. Trying to dissect out
a hologram’s subunits is like trying to slice a point, or stretch that
infinitesimally small domain by an amount no larger than itself. No, a knife
won’t reach inside the heart of a hologram. Of course, in practice we might
trim a system to such small proportions that the image upon decoding would
be too dim to register. Or in a physical experiment we could destroy or
distort the medium and make it technically impossible to decode. That’s why
we opted for imagination–to bypass engineering details.
But look at the implications of our imaginary experiments. Look at the
predictions. If we really want to test holography against redundancy, we
ought to shuffle the brain. If it houses conventional messages, we would
find out very quickly. But if programs exist in the brain according to
holographic principles, scramble though we may, we won’t distort their
meanings. And that is where salamanders come in.
BRAIN TRANSPLANT
A peaceful, quiet world, the salamander’s –unless you happen to be a dainty
little daphnia or a cockeyed mosquito larva whiplashing to the surface for a
gulp of air. Or even worse, the crimson thread of a tubifex worm. For it is
the destiny of the salamander to detect, pursue, and devour all moving
morsels of meat small enough to fit inside his mouth. He eats only what
moves. And he adjusts his attack to fit the motion of his fated quarry. When
he sees the tubifex worm, or picks it up on sonar with his lateral line
organs, he lets you know with a turn of his head. Position fixed,
half-swimming, half-walking, he glides slowly, deliberately, along the
bottom of his dish, careful not to create turbulence that, in the wilds,
would send the worm burrowing deep into the safety of the mud. Reaching his
victim, he coasts around it, moving his head back and forth, up and down, to
catch swelling and shrinking shadows and vibrations and permit his tiny
brain to compute the tensor calculus of the worm’s ever-changing size.
The size of a four-year-old’s little finger, salamanders sustain injury and
recuperate like few other creatures on earth. Consider, for example, what I
call the Rip Van Winkle paradigm. Remove a salamander’s brain. The
behaviorally inert body continues to live, indefinitely. Transplant the
brain to the animal’s broad, jelly-filled tail fin for storage. After a
month or two, slide the brain out of the fin and return it to the empty
cranium. In a couple of weeks, after the replant takes, the animal behaves
as if the operation had never occurred. He’s awake again, a free-living,
prowling organism, like his normal brothers and sisters.
That same tail fin will accommodate hunks of brain pooled ad hoc from
several different salamanders. The pieces quickly send out thousands of
microscopic nerve fibers that weave a confluent network. Does such a mass of
brain tissue work? Communicate impulses? Splice a length of spinal cord on
each end of the mass as a conduit to the skin. Then, on one side, graft an
eye, pressing the cut optic nerve against the piece of spinal cord. On the
other side transplant a leg, making sure that it touches the conduit. Wait a
couple of weeks to allow the optic nerve to invade the spinal cord on the
one side and the cord on the other to sprout fibers into the leg to
reinnervate its muscles. Now aim a spotlight at the tail and focus on the
grafted eye. If you can hit the light switch at the correct tempo, you can
make the transplanted leg stomp a tarantella.
Yet if my experiments were to be a fair test of the holographic theory, I’d
have to insure two things. First, the experimental salamander would have to
be capable of sensing a tubifex worm. Secondly, he’d have to be able to
command his body and jaw muscles into action. I was sure this could be done
with salamanders by preserving the medulla, the transitional region between
spinal cord and the rest of the brain. In the medulla lie input stations for
touch from the head, the salamander’s efficient sonar system, and the sense
of balance from a carpenter’s level-like internal ear. Also, impulses that
bring jaw muscles snapping to life are issued directly from the medulla. It
does for head muscles what the spinal cord does for, say, the biceps or
muscles in the thigh. And in salamanders the medulla serves as a relay
station for information to and from spinal cord and brain. Higher animals
have such stations too. But evolution added long tracts that function like
neural expressways.
There are actually five main parts of the brain common to all vertebrates,
including man. The cerebral hemispheres that predominate within our own
heads are small lobes on the tip end of a salamander’s brain. But during
embryonic life our own cerebral hemispheres pass through a salamander stage.
The next region back, known as the diencephalon, is where the optic nerves
enter the brain. Distorting this region would and did create blindness in
certain experiments. A so-called mesencephalon or mid-brain connects
diencephalon to medulla. These were the parts I would shuffle.
Amputating brain in front of the medulla turned off the salamander’s
conscious behavior and, of course, feeding along with it. But, if I stayed
out in front of the medulla, I’d be leaving sufficient input and output
intact for whatever programs surgery might deliver up.
This is not surgery in the nurse-mask-sutures-and-blood sense. It goes on
under a stereoscopic microscope. Very little bleeding. No stitches. Just
press the sticky, cut tissues together and permit armies of mobilized cells
to swarm over and obscure the injured boundary line. There is only room in
the field of operation for a single pair of human hands. The animals sleep
peacefully in anesthetic dissolved in the water. Trussed lightly against
cream-colored marble clay, magnified, they look like the prehistoric giants
of their ancestry. A strong heart thrusts battalions of red blood corpuscles
through a vascular maze of transparent tissues. No bones to saw. Under fluid
your instruments coax like a sable-hair brush.
In more than 700 operations, I rotated, reversed, added, subtracted, and
scrambled brain parts. I shuffled. I reshuffled. I sliced, lengthened,
deviated, shortened, apposed, transposed, juxtaposed, and flipped. I spliced
front to back with lengths of spinal cord, of medulla, with other pieces of
brain turned inside out. But nothing short of dispatching the brain to the
slop bucket –nothing expunged feeding!
Some operations created permanent blindness, forcing animals to rely on
their sonar systems to tell them what was going on outside. But the optic
nerves of salamanders can regenerate. Still, for normal vision to return,
regenerating optic nerves need a suitable target, as Roger Sperry showed
many years ago. I was able to arrange for this, surgically. And when I did,
eyesight recovered completely in about two weeks– even when the brains came
from a totally different species of salamander and contained extra parts. As
far as feeding was concerned, nature continued to smile on holography. Not
one single thing about the behavior of this group of animals suggested the
drastic surgery they had undergone.
The experiments had subjected the holographic theory to a severe test. As
the theory predicted, scrambling the brain’s anatomy did not scramble its
programs. Meaning was contained within the parts, not spread out among their
relationships. If I wanted to change behavior, I had to supply not a new
anatomy but new information.
Suppose, though, that parts of a salamander brain in front of the medulla
really have no direct relationship to what a salamander does with a worm?
Suppose feeding stations exist in the medulla or spinal cord (or left leg),
awaiting only consciousness to ignite them? If this were true, the attack
response on worms– the principal criterion in the study–would be
irrelevant, and shuffle brain experiments would say very little about the
holographic theory. A purist might have taken care of this issue at the
outset.
“New experiments required,” I scribbled in my notes. “Must have following
features. Host: salamander minus brain anterior to medulla. Donor: try a
vegetarian, maybe young Rana pipiens tadpole. But, first, make damn sure
donor brain won’t actively shut off salamander’s attack on worms.”
My working hunch was that the very young leopard frog tadpole would make a
near-perfect donor. His taste for flies comes much later on in development.
While he’s little, he’ll mimp-mouth algae from the flanks of a tubifex and
harm nothing but a little vermigrade pride. Then, too, from experiments I’d
carried out years before, I knew frog tissues wouldn’t manifestly offend
salamander rejection mechanisms, not to the extent that they would be
destroyed. Thus, if grafted brains didn’t perish in transit across the
operating dish, they would become permanent fixtures in their new heads.
Whether a tadpole brain would or would not actively shut off
worm-recognition programs in salamanders I had to settle experimentally
before calling Punky into the game. Here, I transplanted tadpole brain parts
but left varying amounts of host salamander brain in place. These animals
ate normally, thus showing that tadpole brain, per se, would not overrule
existing attack programs. As I had guessed, it was like adding a zero to a
string of integers as far as feeding was concerned.
Now the scene was ready for Punky, the first of his kind through the run. He
would surrender his own cranial contents in front of the medulla to the
entire brain of a frog. If his new brain restored consciousness but gave him
a tadpole’s attitude about worms, he’d vindicate the shuffle brain
experiments.
For controls, I carried out identical operations but used other salamanders
as donors. Also, to assure myself that frog tissue itself would not affect
appetite, I inserted diced tadpole in the fins and body cavities of still
other salamanders. This procedure had no effect on feeding. Moreover, I had
a hunch that Punky would remain blind. So I removed eyes from other
salamanders to get fresh data on feeding via sonar.
Punky awoke on the seventeenth day. Very quickly, he became one of the
liveliest, most curious-acting animals in the lab. He did remain blind but
his sonar more than compensated. A fresh worm dropped into his bowl soon
brought him over. He’d nose around the worm for several minutes. He lacked
the tadpole’s sucker mouth. And I couldn’t decide whether he wanted algae,
or what. But he spent a lot of time with the worms. In the beginning, he had
me watching him, wondering in a pool of clammy sweat if he’d uncork and
devour the holographic theory in a single chomp. Yet, during three months,
with a fresh worm in his bowl at all times, in more than 1,800 direct
encounters, Punky never made so much as a single angry pass at a tubifex.
Nor did any of his kind in the months that followed. The herbivorous brain
had changed the worms’ role in the paradigm. They were to play with now, not
to ravage.
I kept Punky’s group nourished by force-feeding them fresh fillets of
salamander once a week. This meant the same thing had to be done with each
and every control animal too. While the extra food did not blunt control
appetites, the added work left me looking groggily toward pickling time when
I could preserve the specimens on microscopic slides.
I routinely examine microscopic slides as a final ritual. But Punky’s slides
weren’t routine. And on the very first section I brought into sharp focus,
the truth formed a fully closed circle in the barrel of my microscope. His
tadpole brain, indeed, had survived. It stood still in terms of development,
but it was a nice, healthy organ. And from its hind end emerged a neural
cable. The cable penetrated Punky’s medulla, there to plunge new holographic
ideas into his salamander readout, and into the deepest core of my own
beliefs. #
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a
discussion

In a message dated 9/16/04 8:22:28 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Francesco wrote >In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the
receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back
because
the underlying cause has been addressed.<

Besides Howard’s point, I’m not even sure I believe that there’s anything
that can keep the cravings from “coming back” at some time in some way-
only how we deal with those cravings changes, or so I think anyway.

The concept behind Deborah Mash’s noribogaine patch or currently available
,
(not in the US) low dose ibogaine therapy is to effect craving from coming
back.  But, I agree with you that it all comes down to how we deal with
craving
and change. But, I can assure you there are schools who think it is all
pharmacology and where do you separate the thought from the molecule?

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:40:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow. Talk about getting just what you need just when you need it! That was extremely helpful in so many respects and I have no doubt I will read it several times more today to really internalize on all levels. Really helped me to focus on whats really important and push aside the rest of the daily life nonsense. I believe that if I allow myself to continue to be guided and listen to my heart and not THINK so much Eboga will continue to show me whats really important and guide me to where I show be and not where I THINK I should be.
Thanks so much Lee.
Do you mind if we give that to people in the NY project?
-M.

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person’s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

2. Willingness to change:
Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has – the ‘I can have it all’ mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ‘all’ really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.
There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.
When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming – hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.
While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn’t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.
Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off – years.
9. Post session therapy
A good thing – emotional release / wise counselling – insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.
Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don’t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:26:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick very astutely wrote >There no meaningful difference between, say,
addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the awareness of
what it’s like to be an addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But
you’re still left facing the same shit at the end of the day.<

Which pretty much sums up why I won’t go to group therapy, or any “therapy”
in the current sense of the word as used here in this thread.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:36 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 15 September 2004 23:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

Personally I think that we as human beings
are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of choice or no
choice,
People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort,
comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.
Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches
quickly like a mirror of the self.
The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost
as good as devotion to a life mission.
Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience
can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories
And fine peace with them.

All the best,

Sara

Yeah, at the end of the day, everyone’s just doing something to take
themselves away from facing who they are. Addiction, work, comfort eating,
sex, therapy, seeking enlightenment, trying to save the world or make it a
better place, whatever – it’s all the same, just a refusal of the mind to
simply be. Seems like that only when awareness increases to the point where
there actually arises a desire to stop the movement of the mind away from
being, to grow up and reject the impulse to escape, does this whole
“goingness” of the mind drop a bit.

There no meaningful difference between, say, addiction and therapy. It’s
just that addiction only offers the awareness of what it’s like to be an
addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But you’re still left facing
the same shit at the end of the day.

with love

Nick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:24:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/04 9:15:59 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

<<
In a message dated 9/16/04 8:22:28 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Francesco wrote >In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the
receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because
the underlying cause has been addressed.<

Besides Howard’s point, I’m not even sure I believe that there’s anything
that can keep the cravings from “coming back” at some time in some way-
only how we deal with those cravings changes, or so I think anyway.

The concept behind Deborah Mash’s noribogaine patch or currently available ,
(not in the US) low dose ibogaine therapy is to effect craving from coming
back.  But, I agree with you that it all comes down to how we deal with
craving
and change. But, I can assure you there are schools who think it is all
pharmacology and where do you separate the thought from the molecule?

Howard >>

Sorry to have left it out but, low dose ibogaine therapy will also reduce the
amount of pain medication required in many cases.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:24:25 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Sara wrote >Legalize  is the best solution, I agree, but we know it will not
happen, as long as . (we know already) .the pharmaceuticals industry is a
major income to  lots<

People usually don’t consider the other VERY BIG reason legalization is
still a loooooooong way off yet- the pharmacuetical companies are only a
small fraction of the problem.
What I personally believe is in many of the minds which count in this
regard, is the fact that if we do legalize currently illegal drugs, the $490
billion a year in illegal drug profits (loosely estimated) that flows into
all kinds of legal markets, propping up banks and a multitude of
corporations and governments, will dry up, as drug prices will plumet and
black, untraceable fundage will no longer be flowing tax free into all these
establishments. We will suffer a huge, crippling world-wide depression of
sorts, our economies as we know them today will no longer be alive and
functioning. The establishments need currently illicit drugs to remain
illegal as it has grown to depend upon the vast amounts of untaxed money the
illegal drug markets generate to keep themselves going.
The War on Some Drugs and Users is so huge, so vast, so pervasive that
it touches almost every single aspect of our lives whether we realize it or
not, whether it is blatant or subtle. But most of the prohibitionist maniacs
at the very top, who insist that the war must continue, know what’s up and
know they’re propping up a sick and rotten system by continuing their war-
health, crime and safety issues mean nothing to most of them at all. It’s
all power and greed and a genuine fear of our current system’s collapse if
we do legalize drugs and loose all the money currently generated- money that
HAS to end up in some bank or other at some point in time.
It sounds very dark and conspiratorial I know, but I do think there are
some men and women in certain positions of power and influence that know
exactly what the score is and actually do, in some ways and others, actively
work to insure the war on some drugs and users continues for their own
nefarious purposes.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:23 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

Sjg.

Legalize  is the best solution, I agree, but we know it will not happen, as
long as . (we know already) .the pharmaceuticals industry is a major income
to  lots
Of people, Politics stinks. In Norway selling 1000mg of vitamin C is
illegal.200mg is okay, in The Netherlands Kava-kava is illegal but nutmeg is
okay.
It is legal to have 5gram of weed but 10 grams is illegal as if there is no
different between stronger weed or softer weed.
You can have 100 X 1000 aspirins and that’s fine. you can have 100 litters
of deadly poisons in your house but not more then 5 grams of weed.
You can have five plants growing but then the harvest shouldn’t be more then
five grams. but in the beginning of the 90’ you could grow 40 plants legally
, now it is only 10 years later.  I ‘m charged for growing 177 plants, most
of them only 10 cm long, you can’t even
say if it is a male plant or female or industrial hemp,
Some seed came from bird food, anyone could see that it was a kid experiment
in a fish tank, and still I had to go to court and be charged with growing
177 plants.
10 policemen came with four police cars to clean it up, can you imagine
policemen counting sprouted weed out of a fish tank?
politics has no common sense.

Van: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 4:40
Aan: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and
the thugs….you know what I mean.

Yeah, I know what you mean Sean, the coppers and drug squad are very busy
around here right now, though I can’t imagine it’s as on top as N.Y. (I
think that’s where you’re based?) . A big part of the reason I try to stick
to my script and behave like a guy with 30 warrants is fear of getting
busted with smack – It’s a pretty small town here and once you’re
marked……. you’re marked for an easy bust and  you might as well have a
flashing beacon on your head screaming ‘JUNKY, JUNKY.’  -(my opinion ) =
Legalize every drug? (my personal choice)………. it would be problematic,
but what do we have now? – HUGE problems……….. I want to curb and stop
my opiate drug use but at the same time would like to see those drugs
legalized –  there’s a conflict right there!  I find my own politics and
opinion on this very complex issue to be ironic and arrogant but I believe
in legalisation strongly – (I know ! I’m presenting a very simplistic view
on this) – What was the question again ??……..Sjg.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:08:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/04 8:22:28 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Francesco wrote >In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the
receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because
the underlying cause has been addressed.<

Besides Howard’s point, I’m not even sure I believe that there’s anything
that can keep the cravings from “coming back” at some time in some way-
only how we deal with those cravings changes, or so I think anyway.

The concept behind Deborah Mash’s noribogaine patch or currently available ,
(not in the US) low dose ibogaine therapy is to effect craving from coming
back.  But, I agree with you that it all comes down to how we deal with craving
and change. But, I can assure you there are schools who think it is all
pharmacology and where do you separate the thought from the molecule?

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 16, 2004 at 10:02:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/04 7:56:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I have noticed that the ibo wore off very, very quickly. Maybe it’s
just me, but it feels almost like I’ve forgotten everything already that I
thought I learned. That’s not really true, but it feels that way. I mean,
I’m still eating better (but for the past week not much better as my teeth
are fucked and I can’t get the wisdom tooth that’s been killing me since
Sunday taken out until tomorrow. Grrrr.

Preston and all,

All drug effects pass.  Just imagine if ibogaine didn’t wear off and kept you
in the visualization state indefinitely?  Or, in the, “will I ever get to
sleep state”?  I guess I just heard a couple sighs of relief.  But, to the point.
Low dose ibogaine therapy, 20mg-50mg/day will maintain certain
antidepressant and antianxiety effects of ibogaine that help keep people directed.

Howard

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 9:26:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, p_s_i_m_a_n@hotmail.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I remember whenGuarana was illegal in Holland and I’d buy it when I visited the U.K. and then buy weed on return to Arnhem – Belachelijk !…..Sjg.
>From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:23:47 +0200

>

>Sjg.

>

>Legalize  is the best solution, I agree, but we know it will not happen, as

>long as . (we know already) .the pharmaceuticals industry is a major income

>to  lots

>Of people, Politics stinks. In Norway selling 1000mg of vitamin C is

>illegal.200mg is okay, in The Netherlands Kava-kava is illegal but nutmeg is

>okay.

>It is legal to have 5gram of weed but 10 grams is illegal as if there is no

>  different between stronger weed or softer weed.

>You can have 100 X 1000 aspirins and that’s fine. you can have 100 litters

>of deadly poisons in your house but not more then 5 grams of weed.

>You can have five plants growing but then the harvest shouldn’t be more then

>five grams. but in the beginning of the 90′ you could grow 40 plants legally

>, now it is only 10 years later.  I ‘m charged for growing 177 plants, most

>of them only 10 cm long, you can’t even

>say if it is a male plant or female or industrial hemp,

>Some seed came from bird food, anyone could see that it was a kid experiment

>in a fish tank, and still I had to go to court and be charged with growing

>177 plants.

>10 policemen came with four police cars to clean it up, can you imagine

>policemen counting sprouted weed out of a fish tank?

>  politics has no common sense.

>

>

>

>

>   _____

>

>Van: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com]

>Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 4:40

>Aan: Ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

>

> >BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and

>

> >the thugs….you know what I mean.

> >

>

>Yeah, I know what you mean Sean, the coppers and drug squad are very busy

>around here right now, though I can’t imagine it’s as on top as N.Y. (I

>think that’s where you’re based?) . A big part of the reason I try to stick

>to my script and behave like a guy with 30 warrants is fear of getting

>busted with smack – It’s a pretty small town here and once you’re

>marked……. you’re marked for an easy bust and  you might as well have a

>flashing beacon on your head screaming ‘JUNKY, JUNKY.’  -(my opinion ) =

>Legalize every drug? (my personal choice)………. it would be problematic,

>but what do we have now? – HUGE problems……….. I want to curb and stop

>my opiate drug use but at the same time would like to see those drugs

>legalized –  there’s a conflict right there!  I find my own politics and

>opinion on this very complex issue to be ironic and arrogant but I believe

>in legalisation strongly – (I know ! I’m presenting a very simplistic view

>on this) – What was the question again ??……..Sjg.

>

>

>   _____

>

>MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced

>communication tools and great software like MSN EncartaR Premium. Click here

>for a FREE trial! <http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUK/2734??PS=47575>

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 9:29:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston, call me when you get a chance. -m.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Francesco wrote >In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the
receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because
the underlying cause has been addressed.<

Besides Howard’s point, I’m not even sure I believe that there’s anything
that can keep the cravings from “coming back” at some time in some way- only
how we deal with those cravings changes, or so I think anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 11:44 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

In a message dated 9/15/04 4:12:32 PM, ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com writes:

>In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the
>ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying
>cause has been addressed.

Francesco,

Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting. Possibly,
Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the long
lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released. Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may be
the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration of
the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

Howard

See Glick below.

Life Sci. 1996;58(7):PL119-22.

Tissue distribution of ibogaine after intraperitoneal and subcutaneous
administration.
Hough LB, Pearl SM, Glick SD.
Department of Pharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, NY
12208, USA.
The distribution of the putative anti-addictive substance ibogaine was
measured in plasma, brain, kidney, liver and fat after ip and sc
administration in
rats. One hr after ip dosing (40 mg/kg), drug levels ranged from 106 ng/ml
(plasma) to 11,308 ng/g (fat), with significantly higher values after sc
administration of the same dose. Drug levels were 10-20 fold lower 12 hr
after the same
dose. These results suggest that: 1) ibogaine is subject to a substantial
“first pass” effect after ip dosing, demonstrated by higher drug levels
following
the sc route, 2) ibogaine shows a large accumulation in adipose tissue,
consistent with its lipophilic nature, and 3) persistence of the drug in fat
may
contribute to a long duration of action.

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vote.yahoo.com – Register online to vote today!

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts on the Eboga Healing Process
Date: September 16, 2004 at 9:27:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,

I would like to share a few thoughts that come to mind on the Eboga healing mechanism based on intensive personal use over a period of 6 years with a previous record of undergoing Primal Therapy, some counselling and emotional release work (Holotrophic Breathwork):

1. Intention is everything:

If we are not centered in ourselves as to why we seek healing and what we are aiming for we are like a boat without a rudder going with the wind and the tides.

The energy of intention helps the Eboga energy to connect to the person. Eboga does not heal a person independent of that persons inner intentions. That would be an insult to the person’s freedom of choice in the development of their inner self. Eboga extends its help when asked with sincere intention.

2. Willingness to change:
Part of the problem is that often we will not want to accept the truth about ourselves and our behaviour as that can require a painful letting go and a painful acceptance of the truth of another persons mental health also. Without realising it we are not willing to change. The deep pain that this truth touches in us for the other person is often masked by our natural love for that person, such as a parent, and the notion that we really want to see them well and happy. Thus we sabotage our own health to maintain the pretense and denial of the reality of their effect on us, i.e. codependency where we use whatever love they give us to hold the problem in place. (sometimes also avoiding the problem as we are too afraid not to be codependent and are manipulated by misplaced guilt). Once this obstacle is overcome Eboga can then complete the healing of that issue and the natural love we feel becomes channelled into constructive compassion for the other. We also  no longer live in the fear of losing their love

Other more classical reasons for not being willing to change is basically an arrogant attitude that wants it all but does not want to lose anything that one already has – the ‘I can have it all’ mentality which advertising is based on. Yes, we can have it all but first we need to understand what ‘all’ really means.

If we are unwilling to accept the truth at a deep level then the healing will not complete (we stand in its way through our unacknowledged intention) and life will probably take a turn for the worse in the area we are in denial as that is the way our eyes are opened to return to eboga to complete the task. Watch out for the emotional blows!

3. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Eboga is not a commodity that can be bought and sold. It is an agreement between yourself and the spiritual world. The journey to healing is one where we come closer to ourselves and in turn it comes closer to us. That is in part why it helps. If we wish to have our head fixed by a session, have a therapist work out the problems shortly thereafter and then walk back to a sorted selfish life, we have a better chance at setting up a beach resort on Mars for Summer 2005 and thereafter commuting on a bi-annual basis. Eboga is working for the light, not the dark.

One session is just the start. The real change is deep inside and thinking it out is only useful in terms of an action plan / insight and fortifying our intention. It does not heal the problem at the end of  the day but it can be part of the spur that resolves us to move on and complete the healing.

We do have to take action and that can mean selling up, changing jobs, moving home, leaving partners, …… ….. Eboga guides us in this.

4. Healing is an ordered process.
There are many layers in the healing journey and it is impossible to fix all things at once as we need to go deeper and deeper once each issue is resolved in order to get to those deeper still. Hence if an issue is not yet integrated, understood and resolved how can we go even deeper to something that requires understanding of that above it? Once an issue is resolved it empowers us and Eboga to go deeper. That is what part of the purpose of integration is about.

Each area of pain has its own set of faulty ideas and issues to be dealt with. Of course many issues are inter-connected. In a given moment though, it is, generally speaking, one issue or another that is dealt with.

5. Eboga releases pain.
When childhood traumas are released pain is also released from the emotional body and this takes time to heal. Hence only so much can be dealt with at once as there is a physical limit to what we are capable of sustaining in any give period. The pain can be intense and at times overwhelming – hence a healing program requires the use of eboga in small quantities (approx. 6mg/kg) to act as pain relief as it is not anaesthetic to the psyche and its drive to wholeness and self-knowledge. Medication is highly suspect. These mini sessions also come with psychological insight and resolution. We get what we need. Further major sessions may also be required.

6. Primary issues created secondary ones.
While our primary problem may have been with a given parent there are numerous other problems which result from this. Single issue healing and then back to life whole and healthy is a nice idea sold by shrinks but in the real world it doesn’t hold water.

7. Fortune favors the brave.
Once you get on the eboga healing wagon be prepared. It can be a helleva bumpy ride if you want to get anywhere. Establish a solid source of supply and consider the use of mini-sessions as a must if you intend healing through eboga. Become empowered.

8. Events depicted in sessions about what may happen can be a very long way off – years.
9. Post session therapy
A good thing – emotional release / wise counselling – insight leads to action.

10. Post session life changes and set backs

After a session we may feel we have the answers to our life. Later we discover we made changes which were catastrophic. Later still we realise Eboga led us to these changes & crises as a precursor for the final wake up call to what is really going on in certain areas – necessary if deep down we were not willing to accept the truth in those areas. That is when the inner healing is about to fully complete in those areas.

11. Know what you seek.
Eboga may not be for you (apart from addiction interruption) if you do not have a personal agenda towards wholeness.

Get on the eboga/ibogaine train if you wish. But after it pulls into the first station it drops off the passengers who are not interested in the rest of the journey – a  journey destined for the mountains and valleys of your life under its stewardship.

That is why Eboga is a spiritually guided process of personal transformation.

I hope you don’t mind if I finish on a question:

Do you believe that you can ever live a life of personal inner freedom?

Safe journey,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 9:27:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick noted >But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective
observations…  If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days.  Maybe a week, 10 days
tops.  And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.<

And what do you know, I have extremely low body fat. In other words, I ain’t
fat by any stretch of the imagination and have no fat on my body anywhere at
all. (I’m lucky to even have the teeny buttcheecks I have now. And they’re
new too.)
;-))
But I Have to say, I am STILL getting trails at odd moments. Real trails,
not just traces but trails. They don’t last long, usually only a second or
three, but they are very apparent when they happen.
That said, back to the body fat/no glow feeling in very short order
equation. I have been feeling angry and irritable and unsociable and
frustrated….But I guess I already said this in the last note, so never
mind.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a
discussion

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting.  Possibly,
Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration
of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the
long lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.
Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may
be the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration
of the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat.  C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations…  If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days.  Maybe a week, 10 days
tops.  And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 16, 2004 at 9:25:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I think that is the best and most honest reason for not going to that group I could imagine. I aint sayin don’t go but, anyone could see the logic in that. As for the noribogaine leaving I bet you have almost no body fat. I’ve been reading up and what Howard and Patrick are saying is in all the info but you probably know that. I think this is the first time I was ever glad I’m a little over weight.LOL        Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 9:21:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Francesco wrote >In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the
receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because
the underlying cause has been addressed.<

Besides Howard’s point, I’m not even sure I believe that there’s anything
that can keep the cravings from “coming back” at some time in some way- only
how we deal with those cravings changes, or so I think anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 11:44 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

In a message dated 9/15/04 4:12:32 PM, ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com writes:

In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the
ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying
cause has been addressed.

Francesco,

Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting.  Possibly,
Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the long
lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.  Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may be
the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration of
the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

Howard

See Glick below.

Life Sci. 1996;58(7):PL119-22.

Tissue distribution of ibogaine after intraperitoneal and subcutaneous
administration.
Hough LB, Pearl SM, Glick SD.
Department of Pharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, NY
12208, USA.
The distribution of the putative anti-addictive substance ibogaine was
measured in plasma, brain, kidney, liver and fat after ip and sc
administration in
rats. One hr after ip dosing (40 mg/kg), drug levels ranged from 106 ng/ml
(plasma) to 11,308 ng/g (fat), with significantly higher values after sc
administration of the same dose. Drug levels were 10-20 fold lower 12 hr
after the same
dose. These results suggest that: 1) ibogaine is subject to a substantial
“first pass” effect after ip dosing, demonstrated by higher drug levels
following
the sc route, 2) ibogaine shows a large accumulation in adipose tissue,
consistent with its lipophilic nature, and 3) persistence of the drug in fat
may
contribute to a long duration of action.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:aftercare, jasen/carla
Date: September 16, 2004 at 8:55:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think this list is about hope and getting the word out there to help
people in desperate need.
Thats all. Still with
smiles Jasen :)>

Right on. I can live with this definition, sans problem.
smiley thing right back attacha Jasen.

Carla asked >Is it a
traditional group or different and why do you not want
to go Preston?<

A few different reasons.
One, I’m mad at myself for paying the counselor some here in NYC are meeting
with $60 freakin bucks that I coulda spent much better elsewhere the one
time I did meet with her. No offense to her but I was really bothered that I
paid her that money after listening to her talk about herself most of my
session with her. I guess that helps us get to know one another, but she
coulda told me the stuff she did on the phone, and I could have used that
$60 bucks on a lot of other things, like a great bag of pot even, which
woulda been much better for my psychy than my meet with her.
Two, I’ve suddenly realized that I don’t wanna hear any more war stories, or
at least, I don’t wanna talk about them vocally right now. Not others’
anyway. I read a lot of them every single day as I work, and I’m rewriting a
manuscript of my own that’s chock full of horrific war stories that are
already kicking up a lot of shit in my mind and heart. I seem to feel like
using everytime I start trying to hear others’ war stories too. Plus,
there’s the whole issue of “I’m not trying to stop using, I’m trying to use
responsibly” and I don’t know many others who are likewise doing this. I
mean, I know a couple on this list who are chronic pain patients, but don’t
know any here in NYC, not who’ve used ibogaine anyway. So my goal is not to
stay clean, it’s to keep my pain at the least bothersome levels however I
can. And that involve opiates. Therefore I also do not think it very smart
or considerate of me to go to a meeting and vent about this, that and the
other to people who are trying NOT to use opiates at all. Everytime they see
or hear me, I’m pretty sure they have the thought go through their mind, or
would were I to attend, that “this guy has opiates/is on opiates/damn I want
some.” Of course, I’m using other people as an excuse here, so perhaps
that’s not really my reason.
What is my reason?
Hmmm.
Um, I just don’t like groups. I don’t wanna vent in public, at least not
verbally. In print is fine- it’s kinda anonymous (lol- I’m seeking
anonymity) this way, sorta.
I have noticed that the ibo wore off very, very quickly. Maybe it’s just
me, but it feels almost like I’ve forgotten everything already that I
thought I learned. That’s not really true, but it feels that way. I mean,
I’m still eating better (but for the past week not much better as my teeth
are fucked and I can’t get the wisdom tooth that’s been killing me since
Sunday taken out until tomorrow. Grrrr. Paid another freakin $90 bucks
yesterday for a visit to NENA’s dentist at the community clinic near my
apartment, only to be told they don’t have an oral surgeon on site so they
had to refer me out- to just as expensive dentists are the private one- and
I ain’t going to NYU Dental, after they slaughtered a couple of my teeth
already in the past there), taking baths almost every day, listening to
music (but I’ve started watching a little tv again, mainly c-span at this
time of the morning while I work), but still, I’m kinda feeling blue, even
angry feeling, a bit nervous and frustrated, a lot of the time, and have
very little idea why.
But I don’t want to go discuss it in a group. I use this list (and
sometimes drugwar, but not as much) for that, as a “group.” You also asked
what I’m doing instead. Working. Being grumpy. Ummm, grrrr, outta words
here.
So let me leave it at that for now.
Love to all.

Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Dear Preston,
This is what I thought this list was about.(under Francesco post)
I almost didn’t post what I wrote yesterday,because of fear of rididcule.
However I am glad I did.I assumed this list was about getting help from
people that have experienced Ibogaine,
and talking to providers.
When someone feels like shit and they are at there wits end,they come to
this list for hope,for converstation with
people that understand.
You are right in saying that with a list,people often go off track,hey thats
conversation,..great.I simply mean that I did not expect all this
conflict,you don’t want to go to a list to get help and sign off feeling
like shit.

I have been a member of another list for some years now(non drug related)and
yes,we do speak of other things,of course,otherwise sometimes there would be
no posts,you can make good friends from conversation.But when one of us are
pissed off at another we deal with it offline so that others don’t have to
walk through our conflict.Although at times it does still happen.

I am sure there were others also yesterday that left the list feeling down.

This list has given me hope and a plan with the help and kindess of people I
have spoken to.

I think this list is about hope and getting the word out there to help
people in desperate need.
Thats all. Still with
smiles Jasen 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Hello everyone,
I’d like to discuss the subject of aftercare
because, for me, at this point, after practicing for six years, and after
witnessing the dynamics of process with over 700 people there are some
conclusions that are very evident.  Yet at the same time, i could say that
the more treatments i’m involved with, the less i know.  The reconciliation
of this apparent paradox is where the utter joy is for me, but i already
digress.  No doubt if attention deficit disorder was epidemic 40 years ago
and parents who find it easier to take prosac and rationalise placing their
kids on medication happened then, i would have been one of the fallen.  Just
a bit of an introduction..
So we did 33 hours of documentary film in N.Y.C. and
one of the things we filmed was a guy shooting up and beautifully
articulating the moment to moment onslought of Peace.  It blew me away and
confirmed some things for me.  For one, addicts are more sensitive and
intelligent than most other folks walking around.  If addicts weren’t, they
wouldn’t need to anesthetize. Also, the draw, the relentess desire to be at
rest, to come home is, at least equal to any sadhu/true seeker.
Osho/Rajneesh very best friend was a heroin addict who overdosed.  Now some
of you characters may be saying, ” Yeah, of course.  What else is new?”
Well, it wasen’t until a few years ago that i realised there are only a
handful of people on the planet who aren’t addicts.
There’s a particular type of person who must
spiritualise the mundane otherwise they’re fucked. The American dream of
lovely family, home, good job just doesn’t cut it.  These people need to
access a level of causeless joy, beyond the highs and lows of our good and
bad days to make it all worthwhile.  This necessitates what i feel is a
certain level of teaching, the last leg of the spiritual equation which is
certainly beyond belief and beyond time.  It has nothing to do with trying
or doing or identifying with the contents of our minds.  If there is
interest we could pursue this line of discussion.  At least there is a list
of a few authurs who very clearly express this subtle but very powerful
teaching, but i want to touch upon something i’ve come across which has more
weight to it .
I’m not the only ibogaine provider who has noticed
that most of the people who come to us have an adandonment issue with the
same sex parent.  And there is actually a differentf dynamic with the
stimulants and opiates.  Whereas with the opiates there is more physical
abuse or the same sex parent just wasen’t around, the stimulants often arise
out of the parent being a workaholic/alcaholic and consequently not
emotionally available at all.  This may be why inadvertently in the 12 step
process when a person  finds a sponsor who they really admire and respect in
makes all the difference.  This is why when a person has the fortitude,
courage, etc. to find a same sex therapist to immediately go into therapy
with after their ibogaine, the wide  range of emotions are explored that
weren’t able to be during the years as a child.  But this meeting requires
the  letting go of the propensity to find someone comfortable.  When i ask a
person if they are doing therapy and they tell me they are and they’ve been
in therapy for years and they are completely comfortable with their
therapist then i know they are not doing therapy .  They’ve just got their
therapist rapped around their finger.  Because, again, addicts are smarter,
brighter and more sensitive than most therapists.  There are a deep range of
emotions which need to be explored and the only way this will happen is if
you admire and respect your therapist.  Then the necessary transference of
role model to this person happens and through the exploration of anger,
love, intimidation, fear, longing, trust, healing happens.  And when this
connection is made therapy doesn’t need to take a long time.  In fact, by
the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the ibogaine
treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying cause has
been addressed.  The initial hole that was created by the abandonment  is
resolved.
Just some thoughts.  Have a good meeting in N.Y.

Love,

Francesco

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 8:46:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He  Randy,

The information they get out of the ibo. Will guide them, it is like when someone smells an fresh baked cake, that info. makes them go to the kitchen and find out
About the cake. instinctive behaviour I would call it, the whole commercial world is working that way.
Personally, I  have never refused anybody who wishes to experience ibo. No matter what’s their personal reason is.
( unless they are risking a heart attack).
Even if someone take one step at the time and just quit one little disturbing behaviour , its worth it. each person has his/her tempo. its
the personal judgment of the individual who wants to take the chance. The chance is that one will get one step forward and the other two, but does it matter? Any change how big or small is valuable. Valuable for the initiate and the provider as well. Think of the bigger picture as Julian would say.
As an after care, ( I had mention it before), Dance, music, singing, free expression
have tremendous power for healing the spirit.
you also can concentrate on your talents, thing you use to do as a child. Start using your mind, heart &hands, loving yourself , talk to yourself kindly,” look at the full part of the glass”, find the pink glasses.

Good luck,

Sara

Van: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 12:19
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Hey all, what about people who are sprung and have never been to therapy. What would they do with all that information in their head after they are dosed? Would it be possible to do Ibogaine and then start therapy with no experience at all in looking at yourself? I know a lot of functioning addicts who have little or no therapy in their past. When they find out they can do Ibogaine during a weeks vacation and then go back to work they will jump all over it. Do we tell these people “your not deep enough, no Ibogaine for you”? I would venture to say that half the people I worked with were addicted to something, mostly opiates some crystal meth. They can all afford the treatment with what is going on now. Do you tell them no, you don’t have a chance? Thinking ahead.      Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: The Stress is Showing
Date: September 16, 2004 at 7:25:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

New Page 1HI all,
I know nothing about this outfit, but I thought it interesting that it
arrived in my box what with all the aftercare discussion going on now.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Tresa Watson
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 3:01 PM
Subject: The Stress is Showing

For weeks now, millions of people in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana,
and Mississippi have lived in perpetual suspense.  First Charley, then
Frances, and now Ivan.  We are told of strike probabilities, and evacuation
zones.  We face shortage after shortage; gas to run our cars, plywood to
board our windows, generators to run our homes if the electric should fail,
and food.  We wait, and we wait, and we wait with increasing anxiety and
ratcheting stress.

It is not just civilians whose emotions are taxed, but police officers,
sheriff’s deputies, fire rescue workers and county emergency management
officials are at risk for personal stress and compassion fatigue.  Not only
are they assisting with the hurricane cleanup, but they are also mediating
disputes at local electric company offices where citizens have run out of
patience waiting days to have their power restored.  The National Guard is
activated and in one instance was called to oversee the distribution of
water and ice to ensure peace and order among those waiting for supplies.
People are exhausted and exasperated from both the ongoing shortages and
continuing uncertainties.

Liquor sales have spiked and several liquor store owners in the region
report that their daily sales volumes doubled, or more than doubled, on the
two days preceding both Hurricane Charley and Hurricane Frances.  Many
cities and counties moved to ban liquor sales during the hurricanes because
of an increase in neighborhood fights and the police having priorities other
than managing alcohol related disputes.

The stress and anxiety that comes with awaiting the unknown can take an
emotional and physical toll.  When an individual has absolutely no personal
control over a situation, they can experience the most damaging type of
stress.  Stress can cause depression, impair concentration, cause headaches
and other physical symptoms and compromise the immune system.

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, stress is the number one
cause of relapse to drug abuse.  Stress can cause a problem drinker to drink
more, and a recovering alcoholic to relapse.

Right now it is Florida that is reeling from its recent disasters, but there
are millions of people around the country experiencing their own personal
stress from high unemployment, the mounting death toll in Iraq, the
continual threat of another terrorist attack, inadequate or non existent
food and housing, and many other issues.  We, as addiction professionals,
have the skills and knowledge to help those struggling with both addiction
and the risk of relapse.  We know what works and that planning, preparation,
and practice can greatly aid those thrust into high stress situations.

There are a number of ways to relieve the symptoms and lower the risks of
emotional distress:
·         Talk about your feelings with family, friends, a counselor or
sponsor.  Sharing common experiences helps people overcome anxiety and
feelings of helplessness.
·         Get back into a daily routine.  Go to work, go to meetings, spend
time with family, work the Steps.
·         Try to maintain a healthy diet and get plenty of sleep.  Drink
lots of water and limit caffeine.
·         Get some physical exercise every day.  Physical exercise will help
to discharge pent up energy and frustration.
·         Reassure children that they are safe.  Encourage them to talk
about their fears, emphasize that they are not responsible for what has
happened, and hold and hug them frequently.

Stress reactions may appear days, weeks or even months after a stressful
event.  Remember, these reactions and symptoms are normal after a disaster.
Usually they will disappear slowly, without psychological assistance.  If
they last longer than two weeks or they are very intense, professional help
should be sought.

Here at CENAPS we are all safe.  We have rescheduled The Relapse Prevention
Update for January 13 – 15, 2005, which is well beyond Hurricane Season.  We
hope to see many of you at that time, if not sooner.

Relapse Prevention Counseling is available as a three day intensive seminar,
please contact the CENAPS office at 352-596-8000 or visit www.cenaps.com for
more information.  Publications for Relapse Prevention Counseling and other
books and tapes are available at www.relapse.org or 1-800-767-8181. CENAPS
also has Home Study courses available.

Unsubscribe Instructions: This message was sent to ptpeet@nyc.rr.com, on
September 16, 2004 at 02:00 AM. To unsubscribe from this mailing, please
click here or send an email to remove@cenaps.com.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 6:19:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, what about people who are sprung and have never been to therapy. What would they do with all that information in their head after they are dosed? Would it be possible to do Ibogaine and then start therapy with no experience at all in looking at yourself? I know a lot of functioning addicts who have little or no therapy in their past. When they find out they can do Ibogaine during a weeks vacation and then go back to work they will jump all over it. Do we tell these people “your not deep enough, no Ibogaine for you”? I would venture to say that half the people I worked with were addicted to something, mostly opiates some crystal meth. They can all afford the treatment with what is going on now. Do you tell them no, you don’t have a chance? Thinking ahead.      Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 4:57:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SJG,

Yep, those are my words, I think, but then I’m inspired by
the universal truth.

Take care.

Sara

Van: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 1:20
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Sara, I don’t know if you wrote these words or if they are an extract, but never mind, these few simple sentences say so much about delving into comfort and soft warmth. They put me in mind of the short and effective writings of the Dalai Lama . ………..Sjonnygee.

>

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 4:36:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 15 September 2004 23:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

Personally I think that we as human beings
are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of choice or no choice,
People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort, comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.
Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches quickly like a mirror of the self.
The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost as good as devotion to a life mission.
Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories
And fine peace with them.

All the best,

Sara

Yeah, at the end of the day, everyone’s just doing something to take themselves away from facing who they are. Addiction, work, comfort eating, sex, therapy, seeking enlightenment, trying to save the world or make it a better place, whatever – it’s all the same, just a refusal of the mind to simply be. Seems like that only when awareness increases to the point where there actually arises a desire to stop the movement of the mind away from being, to grow up and reject the impulse to escape, does this whole “goingness” of the mind drop a bit.

There no meaningful difference between, say, addiction and therapy. It’s just that addiction only offers the awareness of what it’s like to be an addict. Therapy’s a little wider in its scope. But you’re still left facing the same shit at the end of the day.

with love

Nick

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 16, 2004 at 4:23:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sjg.

Legalize  is the best solution, I agree, but we know it will not happen, as long as … (we know already) .the pharmaceuticals industry is a major income to  lots
Of people, Politics stinks. In Norway selling 1000mg of vitamin C is illegal.200mg is okay, in The Netherlands Kava-kava is illegal but nutmeg is okay.
It is legal to have 5gram of weed but 10 grams is illegal as if there is no
different between stronger weed or softer weed.
You can have 100 X 1000 aspirins and that’s fine. you can have 100 litters of deadly poisons in your house but not more then 5 grams of weed.
You can have five plants growing but then the harvest shouldn’t be more then five grams. but in the beginning of the 90’ you could grow 40 plants legally , now it is only 10 years later.  I ‘m charged for growing 177 plants, most of them only 10 cm long, you can’t even
say if it is a male plant or female or industrial hemp,
Some seed came from bird food, anyone could see that it was a kid experiment in a fish tank, and still I had to go to court and be charged with growing 177 plants.
10 policemen came with four police cars to clean it up, can you imagine  policemen counting sprouted weed out of a fish tank?
politics has no common sense.

Van: Sjonnygee . [mailto:sjonnygee@msn.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 4:40
Aan: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked

>BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and
>the thugs….you know what I mean.
>

Yeah, I know what you mean Sean, the coppers and drug squad are very busy around here right now, though I can’t imagine it’s as on top as N.Y. (I think that’s where you’re based?) . A big part of the reason I try to stick to my script and behave like a guy with 30 warrants is fear of getting busted with smack – It’s a pretty small town here and once you’re marked……. you’re marked for an easy bust and  you might as well have a flashing beacon on your head screaming ‘JUNKY, JUNKY.’  -(my opinion ) =  Legalize every drug? (my personal choice)………. it would be problematic, but what do we have now? – HUGE problems……….. I want to curb and stop my opiate drug use but at the same time would like to see those drugs legalized –  there’s a conflict right there!  I find my own politics and opinion on this very complex issue to be ironic and arrogant but I believe in legalisation strongly – (I know ! I’m presenting a very simplistic view on this) – What was the question again ??……..Sjg.
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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 7:19:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I don’t know if you wrote these words or if they are an extract, but never mind, these few simple sentences say so much about delving into comfort and soft warmth. They put me in mind of the short and effective writings of the Dalai Lama . ………..Sjonnygee.
>From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:18:24 +0200

>

>

>

>  Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

>

>Personally I think that we as human beings

>are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of choice or no

>choice,

>People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort,

>comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.

>Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches

>quickly like a mirror of the self.

>The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost

>as good as devotion to a life mission.

>Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience

>can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories

>And fine peace with them.

>

>All the best,

>

>Sara

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>   _____

>

>Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 15, 2004 at 4:24:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and

>the thugs….you know what I mean.

>

Yeah, I know what you mean Sean, the coppers and drug squad are very busy around here right now, though I can’t imagine it’s as on top as N.Y. (I think that’s where you’re based?) . A big part of the reason I try to stick to my script and behave like a guy with 30 warrants is fear of getting busted with smack – It’s a pretty small town here and once you’re marked……. you’re marked for an easy bust and then you might as well have a flashing beacon on your head screaming ‘JUNKY, JUNKY.’  –  Legalize every drug? (my personal choice)………. it would be problematic, but what do we have now? – HUGE problems……….. I want to curb and stop my opiate drug use but at the same time would like to see those drugs legalized –  there’s a conflict right there!  I find my own politics and opinion on this very complex issue to be ironic and arrogant but I believe in legalisation strongly – (I know I’m presenting a very simplistic view on this) – What was the question again ??!  oh well – op een dag !……..Sjg.
>From: UUSEAN@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg

>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:41:40 EDT

>

>

>Hey sjonny,

>

>No problem mahn. I’m really tired myself lately.  been working 12 hour days.

>Then most weeknights I’m so tired I don’t want to do anything but sit at the

>computer. Suppose there are worse things I could be doing.

>

>BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and

>the thugs….you know what I mean.

>

>Sean

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 3:54:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shell, if you know about RBT,RET,REBT,ETBR whatever you know that self talk is eating you up. You know what to do. You cannot change objective reality (well maybe you can but it doesn’t last long enough and it costs a lot of money) you can only change what you think about objective reality. So change it.LOL  It aint that easy sometimes. Do you write RSA’s? I had RBT,RET drilled in my head in the 70’s in a treatment program that took almost three years to complete. I’m one of the few to actually complete it. Made me a better junkie. I didn’t ever get caught again. Ha            Randy

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:37:23 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I don’t know if you wrote these words or if they are an extract, but never mind, these few simple sentences say so much about delving into comfort and soft warmth. They put me in mind of the short and effective writings of the Dalai Lama . ………..Sjonnygee.
>From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

>Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:18:24 +0200

>

>

>

>  Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

>

>Personally I think that we as human beings

>are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of choice or no

>choice,

>People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort,

>comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.

>Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches

>quickly like a mirror of the self.

>The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost

>as good as devotion to a life mission.

>Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience

>can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories

>And fine peace with them.

>

>All the best,

>

>Sara

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>   _____

>

>Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] controle
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:55:15 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

controle

MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced communication tools and great software like MSN Encartaź Premium. Click here for a FREE trial! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Risked/Frisked
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:40:06 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and

>the thugs….you know what I mean.

>

Yeah, I know what you mean Sean, the coppers and drug squad are very busy around here right now, though I can’t imagine it’s as on top as N.Y. (I think that’s where you’re based?) . A big part of the reason I try to stick to my script and behave like a guy with 30 warrants is fear of getting busted with smack – It’s a pretty small town here and once you’re marked……. you’re marked for an easy bust and  you might as well have a flashing beacon on your head screaming ‘JUNKY, JUNKY.’  -(my opinion ) =  Legalize every drug? (my personal choice)………. it would be problematic, but what do we have now? – HUGE problems……….. I want to curb and stop my opiate drug use but at the same time would like to see those drugs legalized –  there’s a conflict right there!  I find my own politics and opinion on this very complex issue to be ironic and arrogant but I believe in legalisation strongly – (I know I’m presenting a very simplistic view on this) – What was the question again ??……..Sjg.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:59:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wednesday, September 15, 2004, at 08:39 PM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:03 AM, Jason Bursey wrote:

take some action to interrupt the downward spiral

This is actually, very solid advice.

absolutely. I mean, that’s it in a nutshell.

_.dh

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From: Dave Hunter <dave@zoltron.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:53:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wednesday, September 15, 2004, at 08:39 PM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:03 AM, Jason Bursey wrote:

take some action to interrupt the downward spiral

This is actually, very solid advice.

absolutely. I mean, that’s it in a nutshell.

_.dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:50:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 16, 2004, at 2:47 AM, Dave Hunter wrote:

(that was a glitch in the matrix. apologies.)

It’s not your fault Dave, you’re completely insane and cannot be held accountable for anything, ever, actually.

pKk

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From: Dave Hunter <dave@zoltron.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:47:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(that was a glitch in the matrix. apologies.)

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From: Dave Hunter <dave@zoltron.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:46:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehahahah!!!

On Wednesday, September 15, 2004, at 08:39 PM, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:03 AM, Jason Bursey wrote:

take some action to interrupt the downward spiral

This is actually, very solid advice.

Shelley…  You know yourself, you’ve been through the cycle since forever, you have awareness.  This rocks.  It beats the fuck out of pretending that everything is okay.

Awareness means you have some level of control…  You know the pattern you’re in, and where it leads.  So… change something.

Remaining in therapy for the next 117 years may — or may not — resolve your issues.  Whatever happened… happened.  Nothing is ever gonna make it unhappen.  This doesn’t mean you have to keep repeating the same script, over, and over, and over again…  I mean, unless you want to.  You don’t seem to want it though…

Change something.  Change 5 things.  Maybe you do need repeated ibogaine sessions.  Maybe you need to get out of there and go someplace else for a few weeks — wherever it may be…

Patrick

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey List ,sorry its been so long,my computer got a virus.Im writing today because i feel desperate,I have been slipping ,its the third time ive used,& Im scared.I have no explanation other than the noribogaine has all washed out.I couldnt have had real craving it had been 3 months since I did ibogaine & 3 months since I did opiates,seems like cravings are triggered by having opiates in your system,maybe it was more like the addict voice got stronger.Any way thats just semantics,I m sure craving now.Ive beem having dental work done &  the dentist wrote me scripts,he literally asked me to write out what I wanted,so I wrote percocets,being a good little junkie,the legal kind.Im a real woos when it comes to pain but the truth is ,im back to that see what i can get away with mentality,I hate that!I really get in trouble when I keep stuff secret so here I am fessing up!I feel like Im grovelling -I know no one can fix this but me,Im not asking for redemption ,its just hard to explain this shit in a 12 step meeting,I do SMART online meetings but there is no one there that knows about ibogaine related stuff.I emailed a fellow that does rational emotive behavioral therapy ,so I can take some action to interrupt the downward spiral before I fuck up & get a habit as well.Feel like I cant do ibogaine every time ,Ive done it 3 times & I was given the information I need.I am hip to the same sex parent abandonment,been in therapy for 17+ years .Sooner or later I would end up here when the ibogaine wears off,I have to find the strength to stay clean short of repeated ibogaine sessions.Hey list Im not trying to be a downer to yall,Im just feeling real alone & need to connect with my birds of a feather.Maybe Im making to big a deal about it,wont make front page news,”addict slips!” ,will it,but Im sure someone can relate,i see my old pattern repeating & want to fucking stop it!Thanks for the ear,I love yall -shell

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 2:39:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:03 AM, Jason Bursey wrote:

take some action to interrupt the downward spiral

This is actually, very solid advice.

Shelley…  You know yourself, you’ve been through the cycle since forever, you have awareness.  This rocks.  It beats the fuck out of pretending that everything is okay.

Awareness means you have some level of control…  You know the pattern you’re in, and where it leads.  So… change something.

Remaining in therapy for the next 117 years may — or may not — resolve your issues.  Whatever happened… happened.  Nothing is ever gonna make it unhappen.  This doesn’t mean you have to keep repeating the same script, over, and over, and over again…  I mean, unless you want to.  You don’t seem to want it though…

Change something.  Change 5 things.  Maybe you do need repeated ibogaine sessions.  Maybe you need to get out of there and go someplace else for a few weeks — wherever it may be…

Patrick

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey List ,sorry its been so long,my computer got a virus.Im writing today because i feel desperate,I have been slipping ,its the third time ive used,& Im scared.I have no explanation other than the noribogaine has all washed out.I couldnt have had real craving it had been 3 months since I did ibogaine & 3 months since I did opiates,seems like cravings are triggered by having opiates in your system,maybe it was more like the addict voice got stronger.Any way thats just semantics,I m sure craving now.Ive beem having dental work done &  the dentist wrote me scripts,he literally asked me to write out what I wanted,so I wrote percocets,being a good little junkie,the legal kind.Im a real woos when it comes to pain but the truth is ,im back to that see what i can get away with mentality,I hate that!I really get in trouble when I keep stuff secret so here I am fessing up!I feel like Im grovelling -I know no one can fix this but me,Im not asking for redemption ,its just hard to explain this shit in a 12 step meeting,I do SMART online meetings but there is no one there that knows about ibogaine related stuff.I emailed a fellow that does rational emotive behavioral therapy ,so I can take some action to interrupt the downward spiral before I fuck up & get a habit as well.Feel like I cant do ibogaine every time ,Ive done it 3 times & I was given the information I need.I am hip to the same sex parent abandonment,been in therapy for 17+ years .Sooner or later I would end up here when the ibogaine wears off,I have to find the strength to stay clean short of repeated ibogaine sessions.Hey list Im not trying to be a downer to yall,Im just feeling real alone & need to connect with my birds of a feather.Maybe Im making to big a deal about it,wont make front page news,”addict slips!” ,will it,but Im sure someone can relate,i see my old pattern repeating & want to fucking stop it!Thanks for the ear,I love yall -shell

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 1:18:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello dear Shell,
I understand you are scared,it’s a scary thing this addiction.
Whenever I have been clean(no done either)whilst taking herbs,the legal kind,for addictive behaviour I had no cravings,
when the herbs have run out,I think to myself,Oh well I don’t feel like I want to use so f..k drinking these bitter herbs,and within a couple of weeks,the thought comes back.

I am probably not the one to be giving you advice as I am stuck on this done at the moment,and not taking these herbs,however
after doing the treatment I plan to back it up with the anti craving herbs.
Any good naturapath will know what to give you.

I understand that at a time like this the last thing you want to do is take vitamins herbs and minerals,but on the chance it may help,I am telling you my experiences in the past.. Says a man that has been stuck for 23 years.
Oh well,it is what it is. smiles Jasen(Aus)
—– Original Message —–
From: Jason Bursey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

take some action to interrupt the downward spiral

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey List ,sorry its been so long,my computer got a virus.Im writing today because i feel desperate,I have been slipping ,its the third time ive used,& Im scared.I have no explanation other than the noribogaine has all washed out.I couldnt have had real craving it had been 3 months since I did ibogaine & 3 months since I did opiates,seems like cravings are triggered by having opiates in your system,maybe it was more like the addict voice got stronger.Any way thats just semantics,I m sure craving now.Ive beem having dental work done &  the dentist wrote me scripts,he literally asked me to write out what I wanted,so I wrote percocets,being a good little junkie,the legal kind.Im a real woos when it comes to pain but the truth is ,im back to that see what i can get away with mentality,I hate that!I really get in trouble when I keep stuff secret so here I am fessing up!I feel like Im grovelling -I know no one can fix this but me,Im not asking for redemption ,its just hard to explain this shit in a 12 step meeting,I do SMART online meetings but there is no one there that knows about ibogaine related stuff.I emailed a fellow that does rational emotive behavioral therapy ,so I can take some action to interrupt the downward spiral before I fuck up & get a habit as well.Feel like I cant do ibogaine every time ,Ive done it 3 times & I was given the information I need.I am hip to the same sex parent abandonment,been in therapy for 17+ years .Sooner or later I would end up here when the ibogaine wears off,I have to find the strength to stay clean short of repeated ibogaine sessions.Hey list Im not trying to be a downer to yall,Im just feeling real alone & need to connect with my birds of a feather.Maybe Im making to big a deal about it,wont make front page news,”addict slips!” ,will it,but Im sure someone can relate,i see my old pattern repeating & want to fucking stop it!Thanks for the ear,I love yall -shell

“Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

> Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
> metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting. Possibly,
> Patrick or
> someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration
> of
> noribogaine to be long lasting.
>
> In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
> noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the
> long lasting
> activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
> sequestered in
> fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.
> Noribogaine
> levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may
> be the
> reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration
> of the
> prodrug ibogaine.
>
> Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat. C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations… If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days. Maybe a week, 10 days
tops. And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 1:08:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thinking of you.  Someone in dallas can relate to you, for real.

w/Love 2 you and your family, j

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey List ,sorry its been so long,my computer got a virus.Im writing today because i feel desperate,I have been slipping ,its the third time ive used,& Im scared.I have no explanation other than the noribogaine has all washed out.I couldnt have had real craving it had been 3 months since I did ibogaine & 3 months since I did opiates,seems like cravings are triggered by having opiates in your system,maybe it was more like the addict voice got stronger.Any way thats just semantics,I m sure craving now.Ive beem having dental work done &  the dentist wrote me scripts,he literally asked me to write out what I wanted,so I wrote percocets,being a good little junkie,the legal kind.Im a real woos when it comes to pain but the truth is ,im back to that see what i can get away with mentality,I hate that!I really get in trouble when I keep stuff secret so here I am fessing up!I feel like Im grovelling -I know no one can fix this but me,Im not asking for redemption ,its just hard to explain this shit in a 12 step meeting,I do SMART online meetings but there is no one there that knows about ibogaine related stuff.I emailed a fellow that does rational emotive behavioral therapy ,so I can take some action to interrupt the downward spiral before I fuck up & get a habit as well.Feel like I cant do ibogaine every time ,Ive done it 3 times & I was given the information I need.I am hip to the same sex parent abandonment,been in therapy for 17+ years .Sooner or later I would end up here when the ibogaine wears off,I have to find the strength to stay clean short of repeated ibogaine sessions.Hey list Im not trying to be a downer to yall,Im just feeling real alone & need to connect with my birds of a feather.Maybe Im making to big a deal about it,wont make front page news,”addict slips!” ,will it,but Im sure someone can relate,i see my old pattern repeating & want to fucking stop it!Thanks for the ear,I love yall -shell

“Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

> Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
> metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting. Possibly,
> Patrick or
> someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration
> of
> noribogaine to be long lasting.
>
> In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
> noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the
> long lasting
> activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
> sequestered in
> fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.
> Noribogaine
> levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may
> be the
> reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration
> of the
> prodrug ibogaine.
>
> Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat. C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations… If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days. Maybe a week, 10 days
tops. And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 1:03:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

take some action to interrupt the downward spiral

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey List ,sorry its been so long,my computer got a virus.Im writing today because i feel desperate,I have been slipping ,its the third time ive used,& Im scared.I have no explanation other than the noribogaine has all washed out.I couldnt have had real craving it had been 3 months since I did ibogaine & 3 months since I did opiates,seems like cravings are triggered by having opiates in your system,maybe it was more like the addict voice got stronger.Any way thats just semantics,I m sure craving now.Ive beem having dental work done &  the dentist wrote me scripts,he literally asked me to write out what I wanted,so I wrote percocets,being a good little junkie,the legal kind.Im a real woos when it comes to pain but the truth is ,im back to that see what i can get away with mentality,I hate that!I really get in trouble when I keep stuff secret so here I am fessing up!I feel like Im grovelling -I know no one can fix this but me,Im not asking for redemption ,its just hard to explain this shit in a 12 step meeting,I do SMART online meetings but there is no one there that knows about ibogaine related stuff.I emailed a fellow that does rational emotive behavioral therapy ,so I can take some action to interrupt the downward spiral before I fuck up & get a habit as well.Feel like I cant do ibogaine every time ,Ive done it 3 times & I was given the information I need.I am hip to the same sex parent abandonment,been in therapy for 17+ years .Sooner or later I would end up here when the ibogaine wears off,I have to find the strength to stay clean short of repeated ibogaine sessions.Hey list Im not trying to be a downer to yall,Im just feeling real alone & need to connect with my birds of a feather.Maybe Im making to big a deal about it,wont make front page news,”addict slips!” ,will it,but Im sure someone can relate,i see my old pattern repeating & want to fucking stop it!Thanks for the ear,I love yall -shell

“Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

> Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
> metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting. Possibly,
> Patrick or
> someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration
> of
> noribogaine to be long lasting.
>
> In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
> noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the
> long lasting
> activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
> sequestered in
> fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.
> Noribogaine
> levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may
> be the
> reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration
> of the
> prodrug ibogaine.
>
> Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat. C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations… If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days. Maybe a week, 10 days
tops. And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 12:57:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey List ,sorry its been so long,my computer got a virus.Im writing today because i feel desperate,I have been slipping ,its the third time ive used,& Im scared.I have no explanation other than the noribogaine has all washed out.I couldnt have had real craving it had been 3 months since I did ibogaine & 3 months since I did opiates,seems like cravings are triggered by having opiates in your system,maybe it was more like the addict voice got stronger.Any way thats just semantics,I m sure craving now.Ive beem having dental work done &  the dentist wrote me scripts,he literally asked me to write out what I wanted,so I wrote percocets,being a good little junkie,the legal kind.Im a real woos when it comes to pain but the truth is ,im back to that see what i can get away with mentality,I hate that!I really get in trouble when I keep stuff secret so here I am fessing up!I feel like Im grovelling -I know no one can fix this but me,Im not asking for redemption ,its just hard to explain this shit in a 12 step meeting,I do SMART online meetings but there is no one there that knows about ibogaine related stuff.I emailed a fellow that does rational emotive behavioral therapy ,so I can take some action to interrupt the downward spiral before I fuck up & get a habit as well.Feel like I cant do ibogaine every time ,Ive done it 3 times & I was given the information I need.I am hip to the same sex parent abandonment,been in therapy for 17+ years .Sooner or later I would end up here when the ibogaine wears off,I have to find the strength to stay clean short of repeated ibogaine sessions.Hey list Im not trying to be a downer to yall,Im just feeling real alone & need to connect with my birds of a feather.Maybe Im making to big a deal about it,wont make front page news,”addict slips!” ,will it,but Im sure someone can relate,i see my old pattern repeating & want to fucking stop it!Thanks for the ear,I love yall -shell

“Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

> Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
> metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting. Possibly,
> Patrick or
> someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration
> of
> noribogaine to be long lasting.
>
> In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
> noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the
> long lasting
> activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
> sequestered in
> fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.
> Noribogaine
> levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may
> be the
> reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration
> of the
> prodrug ibogaine.
>
> Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat. C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations… If
you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems
to do an exit stage left, after a few days. Maybe a week, 10 days
tops. And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 12:49:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/15/04 11:08:27 PM, digital@phantom.com writes:

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting.  Possibly,

Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration

of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the
long lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being
sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.
Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may

be the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration

of the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat.  C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations…  If

you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems

to do an exit stage left, after a few days.  Maybe a week, 10 days
tops.  And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

I guess that is pretty much in keeping with Glick’s findings.

H

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 16, 2004 at 12:06:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting.  Possibly, Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the long lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.  Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may be the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration of the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

I dunno nuttin’ ’bout none o’ dat.  C know eviL . here No- oh nevermind.

But, uhm, to just SHARE my own personal subjective observations…  If you have relatively low bodyfat levels, that NEAT glowy feeling, seems to do an exit stage left, after a few days.  Maybe a week, 10 days tops.  And 10 days is stretching the boundaries of Wishful Thinking.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Minor List Change — Mail Filtering
Date: September 16, 2004 at 12:01:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 15, 2004, at 11:44 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/15/04 9:32:28 PM, digital@phantom.com writes:

If you are using mail filters and have configured them to grab
“[ibogaine]” as part of the ruleset.  If your filtering system is caSe

SensiTivE, please note, you need to change:

[ibogaine]

to

[Ibogaine]

We are rearranging sum shit, and in order to smoothly wedge a buncha
other stuff into the lists — namely Oracle, login IDs, and web-based
access through http and https — the first letter needs to be
CapitalizeD.

And I thought it was because of the entheogenic aspects of Ibogaine or the
move to identify Ibogaine as a trademark.

Whoopsie, my bad!

[ÎßÖgåÌÑË®]

Patrick®

®MindVox® ®Transcendental® ®Enlightenment® ®Temple® / ®Heroin® ®Maintenance® ®Clinic®

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Minor List Change — Mail Filtering
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:44:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/15/04 9:32:28 PM, digital@phantom.com writes:

If you are using mail filters and have configured them to grab
“[ibogaine]” as part of the ruleset.  If your filtering system is caSe

SensiTivE, please note, you need to change:

[ibogaine]

to

[Ibogaine]

We are rearranging sum shit, and in order to smoothly wedge a buncha
other stuff into the lists — namely Oracle, login IDs, and web-based
access through http and https — the first letter needs to be
CapitalizeD.

And I thought it was because of the entheogenic aspects of Ibogaine or the
move to identify Ibogaine as a trademark.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] metabolite (was) Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:44:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/15/04 4:12:32 PM, ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com writes:

In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the
ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying
cause has been addressed.

Francesco,

Not really in response to your subject but, I am uncertain that the
metabolite, noribogaine has been shown to be long lasting.  Possibly, Patrick or
someone else can direct me to a publication showing the administration of
noribogaine to be long lasting.

In a personal communication I was informed that the administration of
noribogaine in rats shows the drug is cleared quickly and that the long lasting
activity associated with ibogaine is likely due to ibogaine being sequestered in
fat and converted to noribogaine by the liver at is released.  Noribogaine
levels as a metabolite are higher in plasma than ibogaine and that may be the
reason noribogaine is detected for longer periods after administration of the
prodrug ibogaine.

Any clarification of this matter appreciated.

Howard

See Glick below.

Life Sci. 1996;58(7):PL119-22.

Tissue distribution of ibogaine after intraperitoneal and subcutaneous
administration.
Hough LB, Pearl SM, Glick SD.
Department of Pharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, NY
12208, USA.
The distribution of the putative anti-addictive substance ibogaine was
measured in plasma, brain, kidney, liver and fat after ip and sc administration in
rats. One hr after ip dosing (40 mg/kg), drug levels ranged from 106 ng/ml
(plasma) to 11,308 ng/g (fat), with significantly higher values after sc
administration of the same dose. Drug levels were 10-20 fold lower 12 hr after the same
dose. These results suggest that: 1) ibogaine is subject to a substantial
“first pass” effect after ip dosing, demonstrated by higher drug levels following
the sc route, 2) ibogaine shows a large accumulation in adipose tissue,
consistent with its lipophilic nature, and 3) persistence of the drug in fat may
contribute to a long duration of action.

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From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:15:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heard from D. you haven’t been able to contact me via e-mail.  Why?  Are ya sure your writing in the correct address?      f.
On Tue Sep 14 20:27 , Sapphirestardus@aol.com sent:

Sean, you’re never too positive or personal for me or anyone else. You just keep on communicating as you do. I absolutely agree with you about criticizing for the sake of it. That is what I meant as Vapid criticizm. We share alot here and don’t need that type of shit. Only honest and constructive criticizm if that is even necessary. Maybe I should be less extreme regarding my position on criticizm. I don’t know, it felt and seemed right to me but it appears I am alone in my stance. Though I don’t happen to like criticizm personally, it’s just that I have learned quite a bit from it when it came from people who I knew cared. Hey! Fuck me! The beauty of this country and forum specifically is you don’t have to listen to assholes like myself, dig?

The best to you Sean,

Julian

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Gboy where it all begins!
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:33:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Vector,

Thanks for posting this.  Sounds like it was one helluva party. Hope the yippies do it again this year.

Sean

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Minor List Change — Mail Filtering
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:27:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you are using mail filters and have configured them to grab “[ibogaine]” as part of the ruleset.  If your filtering system is caSe SensiTivE, please note, you need to change:

[ibogaine]

to

[Ibogaine]

We are rearranging sum shit, and in order to smoothly wedge a buncha other stuff into the lists — namely Oracle, login IDs, and web-based access through http and https — the first letter needs to be CapitalizeD.

Thanks, you may go about your lives now.

Patrick

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with holistic/music therapist
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:17:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

I am looking to buy some Iboga. I can have it shipped to a P.O. box in
Canada. If you know where I can buy it it would be greatly appreciated.

I believe all of the suppliers will ship to Canada (some of them may not
ship to PO boxes tho, I dunno offhand). Check out Nick Sandberg’s page at
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm, about two thirds down the page
there’s a list of suppliers.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with holistic/music therapist
Date: September 15, 2004 at 10:13:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,
I am looking to buy some Iboga. I can have it shipped to a P.O. box in Canada. If you know where I can buy it it would be greatly appreciated.
You wrote to me once I just can’t find Eurnthogardens. You were nice enough to supply me with the correct spelling if you could do it again I would appreciate that.
I see you also have a Yahoo address, seems everyone else uses AOL. I would like to caution you about one thing. If you write to the person at their AOL address it often goes on the forum. Therefore, if you want to go off the record and off the forum, ask for another e-mail. Once or twice I wrote to someone and asked to keep it between you and me only to see it on the forum.
I can be reached at jimhadey3 @ yahoo.com. I would like to keep this between you and me and off the froum. May I ask if you much experience with Iboga or if you have ever tried it. I am on disability and don’t know if I should get 1 gram at Eurnthogardens or get the Tabernanthe iboga from indra.dk/. The gardens place I think charge about $360 per gram and the indra charge $26 per gram but it may take 5 to 6 grams. I really do not know which way to go. See, I am on disability and do not really have much money. Seems every month I have $3.00 left in my checking account. Yep, times are tough, I am not bitching, just telling you my situation. I would hate to get the Tabernanthe iboga only to find out it is no good or similar to the gardens “root bark”. Twice a person asked if the gardens was a good place to go and nobody had a good word to say. I think their HCL may be OK but from what I have read the root bark is a waste of money.
If you not busy drop me a line sometime and maybe we can talk. You seem like a pretty nice person and definitely intelligent. No, this is not a pick up, I am in my 50’s and soon to be be seperated. Sometimes it is nice to have an intelligent person to talk to, I am sure you know what I mean.
If you know of a place please pass it on to me. After all, it is legal in Canada. The thing is it is so easy to get ripped off on the net.
Hope to talk to you later,
– JIM

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey list,

If you want the woman’s name, email offlist. Right
now, she wants to maintain a bit of a low profile, as
she is a music therapist, and treats substance abuse
only part of the time.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool

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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 9:53:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Preston,
This is what I thought this list was about.(under Francesco post)
I almost didn’t post what I wrote yesterday,because of fear of rididcule.
However I am glad I did.I assumed this list was about getting help from people that have experienced Ibogaine,
and talking to providers.
When someone feels like shit and they are at there wits end,they come to this list for hope,for converstation with
people that understand.
You are right in saying that with a list,people often go off track,hey thats conversation,..great.I simply mean that I did not expect all this conflict,you don’t want to go to a list to get help and sign off feeling like shit.

I have been a member of another list for some years now(non drug related)and yes,we do speak of other things,of course,otherwise sometimes there would be no posts,you can make good friends from conversation.But when one of us are pissed off at another we deal with it offline so that others don’t have to walk through our conflict.Although at times it does still happen.

I am sure there were others also yesterday that left the list feeling down.

This list has given me hope and a plan with the help and kindess of people I have spoken to.

I think this list is about hope and getting the word out there to help people in desperate need.
Thats all. Still with smiles Jasen 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Hello everyone,
I’d like to discuss the subject of aftercare because, for me, at this point, after practicing for six years, and after witnessing the dynamics of process with over 700 people there are some conclusions that are very evident.  Yet at the same time, i could say that the more treatments i’m involved with, the less i know.  The reconciliation of this apparent paradox is where the utter joy is for me, but i already digress.  No doubt if attention deficit disorder was epidemic 40 years ago and parents who find it easier to take prosac and rationalise placing their kids on medication happened then, i would have been one of the fallen.  Just a bit of an introduction..
So we did 33 hours of documentary film in N.Y.C. and one of the things we filmed was a guy shooting up and beautifully articulating the moment to moment onslought of Peace.  It blew me away and confirmed some things for me.  For one, addicts are more sensitive and intelligent than most other folks walking around.  If addicts weren’t, they wouldn’t need to anesthetize. Also, the draw, the relentess desire to be at rest, to come home is, at least equal to any sadhu/true seeker. Osho/Rajneesh very best friend was a heroin addict who overdosed.  Now some of you characters may be saying, ” Yeah, of course.  What else is new?”   Well, it wasen’t until a few years ago that i realised there are only a handful of people on the planet who aren’t addicts.
There’s a particular type of person who must spiritualise the mundane otherwise they’re fucked. The American dream of lovely family, home, good job just doesn’t cut it.  These people need to access a level of causeless joy, beyond the highs and lows of our good and bad days to make it all worthwhile.  This necessitates what i feel is a certain level of teaching, the last leg of the spiritual equation which is certainly beyond belief and beyond time.  It has nothing to do with trying or doing or identifying with the contents of our minds.  If there is interest we could pursue this line of discussion.  At least there is a list of a few authurs who very clearly express this subtle but very powerful teaching, but i want to touch upon something i’ve come across which has more weight to it .
I’m not the only ibogaine provider who has noticed that most of the people who come to us have an adandonment issue with the same sex parent.  And there is actually a differentf dynamic with the stimulants and opiates.  Whereas with the opiates there is more physical abuse or the same sex parent just wasen’t around, the stimulants often arise out of the parent being a workaholic/alcaholic and consequently not emotionally available at all.  This may be why inadvertently in the 12 step process when a person  finds a sponsor who they really admire and respect in makes all the difference.  This is why when a person has the fortitude, courage, etc. to find a same sex therapist to immediately go into therapy with after their ibogaine, the wide  range of emotions are explored that weren’t able to be during the years as a child.  But this meeting requires the  letting go of the propensity to find someone comfortable.  When i ask a person if they are doing therapy and they tell me they are and they’ve been in therapy for years and they are completely comfortable with their therapist then i know they are not doing therapy .  They’ve just got their therapist rapped around their finger.  Because, again, addicts are smarter, brighter and more sensitive than most therapists.  There are a deep range of emotions which need to be explored and the only way this will happen is if you admire and respect your therapist.  Then the necessary transference of role model to this person happens and through the exploration of anger, love, intimidation, fear, longing, trust, healing happens.  And when this connection is made therapy doesn’t need to take a long time.  In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying cause has been addressed.  The initial hole that was created by the abandonment  is resolved.
Just some thoughts.  Have a good meeting in N.Y.
Love,
Francesco

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to Julian
Date: September 15, 2004 at 9:51:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Please do talk more about what’s up wid you when you are up to it. I was missin ya too!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 15, 2004 at 9:49:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston and list,

I think I knew form the moment I joined that this is more of a virtual coffee house (Amsterdam style?) where ibogaine floats in, around and through the conversation like wisps of smoke.

I notice that all serious inquires are answered by those who are well versed in ibogaine….and the list intro does encourage further investigation, including links.
I really had to go beyond the list to more fully educate myself concerning ibogaine, although some invaluable information and experience is right here too.

Pax,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group
Date: September 15, 2004 at 9:44:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,

There is a bi weekly post ibo group run by a professional, Barbara Judd.  we do something loosely resembling group therapy, given the very small size of the group, the different goals of the three of us…I think it is Barbara’s goal to grow the group and to an hour of group therapy…a couple of people clean for years have joined us, Marc is already really into ibogaine awareness in the community…talking to clinics etc.

So I guess the question is hard to answer right now.  Time will show how the group shapes up.  The more the better it seems.  It is a good tool for growing the ibogaine community in NY…people that care passionately about helping to educate, raise consioussness..and sometimes just chill…it is a great and strange feeling being in the same room with so many people are experienced with ibogaine.

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] health alert,
Date: September 15, 2004 at 8:22:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This scares the hell out of me!
Thanks Sara for posting this!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book
Date: September 15, 2004 at 8:09:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mary, Welcome to the list! We are really growing here in strong intelligent women! Ha, ha! Does that bother any of you men? It shouldn’t, I love a balance of the sexes when discussion is involved.

Mary, please post often! I hope you get to do some Ibogaine. Hell, I hope we all get to do some Ibogaine!

Peace to all,
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 7:31:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wednesday, September 15, 2004, at 01:20 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

I know you are an Ibogaine provider but this is the feeling I have too. It seems the more knowledge I get the less I know. Does that make sense to anyone?

This seems to be a universal law.

when I was young and ignorant I thought I knew it all.

_.dh

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 7:22:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Mary,

Welcome to this list.

I can try to help you understand, if someone feels that there is no reason to change or doesn’t feel a strong will power,
feel comfort in the situation and will not feel the need to look for the source of their problem.
They don’t ask why? They just impulsively continue to chase their tail. Doing things for the wrong reason but still doing them.
Not challenging their will power.

Like N. is a brave people who is changing only by will power, from an Heroin addict to an ex-heroin addict.
Bravo!

Sara

Van: Maryditton@aol.com [mailto:Maryditton@aol.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 16 september 2004 0:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion

Dear Sara,
Can you elaborate on your statement:  The state of mind of “Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost as good as devotion to a life mission. ”  I am curious to understand what you are talking about.
I am interested in taking ibogaine at some point in the future to deal with emotional conflicts.  I am addicted to cigarettes and although I am not an alcoholic, there is alcoholism and drug addiction in my family.(this paragraph just to introduce myself).
Thanks!
Mary

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 7:20:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/15/2004 4:11:35 PM Central Daylight Time, ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com writes:
Yet at the same time, i could say that the more treatments i’m involved with, the less i know.
I know you are an Ibogaine provider but this is the feeling I have too. It seems the more knowledge I get the less I know. Does that make sense to anyone?
I have a very good understanding of addiction from the physiological to the psychological. I know that feelings of guilt and shame are the number one triggers to my using and of course physical dependence can get you to searching for dope, any dope…..FAST!
addicts are more sensitive and intelligent than most other folks walking around.
I have always said this! I find this to be more true with drug addicted individuals as opposed to alcohol addicted people. I am NOT saying alcoholics are all bad people….just that as a whole drug addicts seem more sensitive and intelligent.
And when this connection is made therapy doesn’t need to take a long time.  In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying cause has been addressed.  The initial hole that was created by the abandonment is resolved.

Boy, that is fast! Sorry, but I have yet to find a therapist who could really connect with me or I connected with.
I get the most help from peers not therapists.

Interesting post!
Callie

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] good book
Date: September 15, 2004 at 6:58:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Forum,
In the spirit of aftercare ideas, and in this case beforecare as well, I would like to recommend a book by Wayne Dyer that is full of insight.  Manifest Your Destiny is worth reading.  It talks about the power of intention which is right up Eboga’s alley.
One of the most powerful methods of alignment has to do with sound and Dyer recomends chanting the mantra of aaahh to accept divine guidance and om to give gratiude.  My brief description here does not do justice to the information in the book.
Isn’t it interesting that eboga is accompanied by a sound – BTW I know this only from what I’ve read as I haven’t been initiated.
Yours,
Mary

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 6:55:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francesco. One last thing. I tried to send you mail offline but it won’t work. I want to give you my cell phone so please contact me at the home number anytime.

Thank you,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Mindvox and Virtual Community
Date: September 15, 2004 at 6:38:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie. How are you girl? I’m curious, I have sent you three letters in the past week but am not sure you have received them. You don’t have to respond to them if you don’t wish but did you reveive them? If not, then I may have screwed up your address.

Let me know. I’ve been worried about you.

With lots of love,

Julian

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 6:36:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara,
Can you elaborate on your statement:  The state of mind of “Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost as good as devotion to a life mission. ”  I am curious to understand what you are talking about.
I am interested in taking ibogaine at some point in the future to deal with emotional conflicts.  I am addicted to cigarettes and although I am not an alcoholic, there is alcoholism and drug addiction in my family.(this paragraph just to introduce myself).
Thanks!
Mary

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 15, 2004 at 6:27:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Hannah. You ‘dared’ to say it!? I guess agreeing with me or one of my viewpoints is difficult and I just don’t know this. It only goes to show that I’m more fucked up than I already know I am! Thanks for not letting me be too alone!

Regards,

Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 6:18:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Did anyone tried the Primal Therapy by Dr. Janov  as after care?

Personally I think that we as human beings
are addicts by nature, it is just a matter of the addiction of choice or no choice,
People can become addicted to any life style , when it gives comfort, comfort is what we are addicted to, and our memory will let us know.
Comfort will not make us learn quickly, Iboga isn’t comfort,  it teaches quickly like a mirror of the self.
The state of mind of  ‘”Surrender” to an addiction state of being is almost as good as devotion to a life mission.
Both have to do with  memory and suppressed memories. The Iboga experience can help a person to retouch those suppressed memories
And fine peace with them.

All the best,

Sara

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] health alert,
Date: September 15, 2004 at 5:53:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush’s New Mental Screening Plans Evoke Memories of Clockwork Orange
Jon Rappoport | September 13 2004
I’ve written about Bush’s draconian mental-health screening program for every kid in the US.
Here is something else to think about. If this program really takes hold, psychiatrists will be able to extend their lists of trumped-up fake mental disorders.
In the long run, if a kid gets into a fight on the playground, if a kid makes some kind of anti-gay, anti-white, anti-black, anti-government comment, he could be dragged in for “screening.”
Clockwork Orange.
“The state is compassionate. We don’t want to punish the offending child. That’s the old way. We want to go after that part of his brain function that made him do the anti-social thing. With medication, we can silence or convert that mis-firing in the brain.”
Let’s assume this Bush program goes nowhere.
But…it’s a start. It’s part of softening up the populace. Bit by bit, drop by drop, compromise by compromise, the road is built into a future no sane person wants.
That’s the way they play the game.
Look what’s happening with vaccines. There the goal is forced vaccination of every person. Right now there are still loopholes in every state, so that parents can claim exemptions for their kids.
But with all the propaganda about bio-threats and flu pandemics and SARS and anthrax attacks and smallpox attacks and so on, the population is being pushed in the direction of saying, “Oh, what the hell, they’re right, let’s give over our kids for the jabs, for their own good…”
Whether you believe in the safety/efficacy of vaccines or not, the question is whether you believe the state has the right to enforce a medical decision on you. On your kids.
The state positions itself as the sensible parent. “Do you want to endanger children?”
Freedom of choice fades as a concern.
I know there are some psychiatrists out there who have awakened to the massive abuses perpetrated by their profession (toxic drugs). Why not form a group and offer a case for the mental screening of George Bush and Dick Cheney?
Why not write an open letter and send it to every large press outlet in the world? Do your best. Use the lingo you learned as a student. Make the diagnosis. Fake out the fakers with a fake assessment. It’s a dream assignment.
Suggest what drugs will quiet the brains of our leaders.
Turn the tables.
—————————
August 22, 2004

Bushs 4th Reich Mental Screening Smacks of Nazi Hygienic Genocide Plans


This fascist tactic is actually meant for political repression and racial discrimination to silence and rid all dissidents to Bush’s & company 4th Reich’s attempted coup d’etat of the United States for absolute dictatorship while using the corruption of the medical industries as a public authority front much in the same way as World War 2. This is also part of reason why there has been a deliberate cover-up of EM Hypnotic, Implant and RF Psychotronic technologies for over 50 years that’s been criminally used to destabilize, fleece and destroy undeserving population’s through-out the world while publicly blaming them. 


Deliberately implemented through surveillance systems by a criminal espionage network (PSI TEC) used for physically stalking and inciting painful or unusual symptoms that includes invisibly inducing violent behavior, as a heinous way to build bogus medical statistics for labor indoctrinations to “wrongly” justify destroying individual civil, human rights and liberties by tyranny control of through unethical social retaliation and dehumanizing police state intervention. 


It should also be noted that there is a current push by an extremist element operating to “label” victims of Psychotronic EM and RF Implant Torture as psychoterrorists instead holding the criminal organization responsible that’s actually behind applying it. Not much different than policies of the SS apparatus that Hitler used proceeding and during World War 2 gearing up to openly murder millions under the guise of the Nazi medical “Hygienic” Cleansing Policies now behind World War 3s’. 

*******

Search Nazi Racial Hygienic, Religious and Political Dissident Genocide Plans conducted during WW2.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking
Date: September 15, 2004 at 5:13:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/15/2004 2:59:00 PM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
I’d really like to quit smoking cigs. Talking about a stupid addiction.

Whew! Me too Randy!
I do not think cigs are such a stupid addiction. They are a real stress buffer to me!
Thanks for your kind, caring words. They  make me smile!
Callie

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 5:31:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everyone,
I’d like to discuss the subject of aftercare because, for me, at this point, after practicing for six years, and after witnessing the dynamics of process with over 700 people there are some conclusions that are very evident.  Yet at the same time, i could say that the more treatments i’m involved with, the less i know.  The reconciliation of this apparent paradox is where the utter joy is for me, but i already digress.  No doubt if attention deficit disorder was epidemic 40 years ago and parents who find it easier to take prosac and rationalise placing their kids on medication happened then, i would have been one of the fallen.  Just a bit of an introduction..
So we did 33 hours of documentary film in N.Y.C. and one of the things we filmed was a guy shooting up and beautifully articulating the moment to moment onslought of Peace.  It blew me away and confirmed some things for me.  For one, addicts are more sensitive and intelligent than most other folks walking around.  If addicts weren’t, they wouldn’t need to anesthetize. Also, the draw, the relentess desire to be at rest, to come home is, at least equal to any sadhu/true seeker. Osho/Rajneesh very best friend was a heroin addict who overdosed.  Now some of you characters may be saying, ” Yeah, of course.  What else is new?”   Well, it wasen’t until a few years ago that i realised there are only a handful of people on the planet who aren’t addicts.
There’s a particular type of person who must spiritualise the mundane otherwise they’re fucked. The American dream of lovely family, home, good job just doesn’t cut it.  These people need to access a level of causeless joy, beyond the highs and lows of our good and bad days to make it all worthwhile.  This necessitates what i feel is a certain level of teaching, the last leg of the spiritual equation which is certainly beyond belief and beyond time.  It has nothing to do with trying or doing or identifying with the contents of our minds.  If there is interest we could pursue this line of discussion.  At least there is a list of a few authurs who very clearly express this subtle but very powerful teaching, but i want to touch upon something i’ve come across which has more weight to it .
I’m not the only ibogaine provider who has noticed that most of the people who come to us have an adandonment issue with the same sex parent.  And there is actually a differentf dynamic with the stimulants and opiates.  Whereas with the opiates there is more physical abuse or the same sex parent just wasen’t around, the stimulants often arise out of the parent being a workaholic/alcaholic and consequently not emotionally available at all.  This may be why inadvertently in the 12 step process when a person  finds a sponsor who they really admire and respect in makes all the difference.  This is why when a person has the fortitude, courage, etc. to find a same sex therapist to immediately go into therapy with after their ibogaine, the wide  range of emotions are explored that weren’t able to be during the years as a child.  But this meeting requires the  letting go of the propensity to find someone comfortable.  When i ask a person if they are doing therapy and they tell me they are and they’ve been in therapy for years and they are completely comfortable with their therapist then i know they are not doing therapy .  They’ve just got their therapist rapped around their finger.  Because, again, addicts are smarter, brighter and more sensitive than most therapists.  There are a deep range of emotions which need to be explored and the only way this will happen is if you admire and respect your therapist.  Then the necessary transference of role model to this person happens and through the exploration of anger, love, intimidation, fear, longing, trust, healing happens.  And when this connection is made therapy doesn’t need to take a long time.  In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying cause has been addressed.  The initial hole that was created by the abandonment  is resolved.
Just some thoughts.  Have a good meeting in N.Y.
Love,
Francesco

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From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: [ibogaine] aftercare, a discussion
Date: September 15, 2004 at 5:31:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everyone,
I’d like to discuss the subject of aftercare because, for me, at this point, after practicing for six years, and after witnessing the dynamics of process with over 700 people there are some conclusions that are very evident.  Yet at the same time, i could say that the more treatments i’m involved with, the less i know.  The reconciliation of this apparent paradox is where the utter joy is for me, but i already digress.  No doubt if attention deficit disorder was epidemic 40 years ago and parents who find it easier to take prosac and rationalise placing their kids on medication happened then, i would have been one of the fallen.  Just a bit of an introduction..
So we did 33 hours of documentary film in N.Y.C. and one of the things we filmed was a guy shooting up and beautifully articulating the moment to moment onslought of Peace.  It blew me away and confirmed some things for me.  For one, addicts are more sensitive and intelligent than most other folks walking around.  If addicts weren’t, they wouldn’t need to anesthetize. Also, the draw, the relentess desire to be at rest, to come home is, at least equal to any sadhu/true seeker. Osho/Rajneesh very best friend was a heroin addict who overdosed.  Now some of you characters may be saying, ” Yeah, of course.  What else is new?”   Well, it wasen’t until a few years ago that i realised there are only a handful of people on the planet who aren’t addicts.
There’s a particular type of person who must spiritualise the mundane otherwise they’re fucked. The American dream of lovely family, home, good job just doesn’t cut it.  These people need to access a level of causeless joy, beyond the highs and lows of our good and bad days to make it all worthwhile.  This necessitates what i feel is a certain level of teaching, the last leg of the spiritual equation which is certainly beyond belief and beyond time.  It has nothing to do with trying or doing or identifying with the contents of our minds.  If there is interest we could pursue this line of discussion.  At least there is a list of a few authurs who very clearly express this subtle but very powerful teaching, but i want to touch upon something i’ve come across which has more weight to it .
I’m not the only ibogaine provider who has noticed that most of the people who come to us have an adandonment issue with the same sex parent.  And there is actually a differentf dynamic with the stimulants and opiates.  Whereas with the opiates there is more physical abuse or the same sex parent just wasen’t around, the stimulants often arise out of the parent being a workaholic/alcaholic and consequently not emotionally available at all.  This may be why inadvertently in the 12 step process when a person  finds a sponsor who they really admire and respect in makes all the difference.  This is why when a person has the fortitude, courage, etc. to find a same sex therapist to immediately go into therapy with after their ibogaine, the wide  range of emotions are explored that weren’t able to be during the years as a child.  But this meeting requires the  letting go of the propensity to find someone comfortable.  When i ask a person if they are doing therapy and they tell me they are and they’ve been in therapy for years and they are completely comfortable with their therapist then i know they are not doing therapy .  They’ve just got their therapist rapped around their finger.  Because, again, addicts are smarter, brighter and more sensitive than most therapists.  There are a deep range of emotions which need to be explored and the only way this will happen is if you admire and respect your therapist.  Then the necessary transference of role model to this person happens and through the exploration of anger, love, intimidation, fear, longing, trust, healing happens.  And when this connection is made therapy doesn’t need to take a long time.  In fact, by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the ibogaine treatment the craving will not come back because the underlying cause has been addressed.  The initial hole that was created by the abandonment  is resolved.
Just some thoughts.  Have a good meeting in N.Y.
Love,
Francesco

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] to Julian
Date: September 15, 2004 at 5:07:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:39:49 PM Central Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
Stop being my enemy….I’m not looking for a war!
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Julian

The above is just the last sentence of your post but I want to say I agree with you! Very well said also!
Everyboday (almost everybody, that is!) squabbles here at one time or another. It is par for the course and one of the reasons this neighborhood exists as well as it does!
Today it is Julie and Julian disagreeing…..tomorrow it may be two other somebodies…..just agree to disagree and get on with new business!
Julie, if I haven’t said so….hi! Welcome to the list if your are new. I have been drowning my sorrows in whiskey the past couple of weeks and have been in no shape to correspond online or offline! lol!
hugs and peace to all,
Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and smoking
Date: September 15, 2004 at 3:57:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,  glad you got sun today, its nice in the Catskills. Watch out for that hurricane. Good to see you back. I get the funk too. I’m hoping Ibogaine might help that a little bit. I’m not taking anything but methadone till I dose. Any one have any information on trying to quit smoking,(other than they say to try to in the manual)? I’d really like to quit smoking cigs. Talking about a stupid addiction.     Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 15, 2004 at 3:16:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston, its sacrament@mindvox.com I think
sacrament-subscribe@mindvox.com signs you up for it.

I’m not sure what jason meant, I think he was talking
about being negative instead of helping others. We’ve
both been here for years, long before Patrick wrote
the list intro, he didn’t write it and then the list
became that, I think he wrote it based on what the
list actually is, in a really smart-ass and funny way,
but a honest one 😉

I think we all established that everything relates to
ibogaine in some way years ago and topics and
conversation are always going to go all over the
place.

Taking out ibogaine, I’ve never seen any forum that
stays on focus either, except those who have nazi
moderators who will remove people for posting off
topic messages.

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

I mean,..c’mon(crikey).Lets not forget what this
list is about….please!<

Pray tell Jason, just what exactly IS this list
about, please?
I know it’s titled ibogaine@mindvox, but having been
here for a number of
years now, I myself have come to the realization
(perhaps wrongly, but it’s
a matter of perspective now, ain’t it) that it
doesn’t always revolve
strictly around ibogaine- it may be in some small
part partly my fault among
the many who may take blame, but I can’t remember
the day it’s been strictly
about ibogaine. Maybe it was once, but I never saw
that day.
I do think there’s another list around here
somewhere (can’t remember
the name of it but I’m sure someone else could help
you/us out with that
info) with just post-ibogaine folk posting on it,
sharing whatever it is
they’re sharing over there, but I haven’t yet come
across any email list
anywhere online (with the possible exception of
drugwar@mindvox…except
even there we tend to wander off topic, even waaaaay
off topic sometimes,
though almost always accompanied with a bit OT)
which sticks to the topic at
hand, whatever it, that topic, may be.
But I do wish you luck, both in your endevours
to find and be treated
with ibogaine, and in finding an email list that
stays perpetually on topic.
;-))
Peace and love,
Preston

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 15, 2004 at 1:27:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I mean,..c’mon(crikey).Lets not forget what this list is about….please!<

Pray tell Jason, just what exactly IS this list about, please?
I know it’s titled ibogaine@mindvox, but having been here for a number of
years now, I myself have come to the realization (perhaps wrongly, but it’s
a matter of perspective now, ain’t it) that it doesn’t always revolve
strictly around ibogaine- it may be in some small part partly my fault among
the many who may take blame, but I can’t remember the day it’s been strictly
about ibogaine. Maybe it was once, but I never saw that day.
I do think there’s another list around here somewhere (can’t remember
the name of it but I’m sure someone else could help you/us out with that
info) with just post-ibogaine folk posting on it, sharing whatever it is
they’re sharing over there, but I haven’t yet come across any email list
anywhere online (with the possible exception of drugwar@mindvox…except
even there we tend to wander off topic, even waaaaay off topic sometimes,
though almost always accompanied with a bit OT) which sticks to the topic at
hand, whatever it, that topic, may be.
But I do wish you luck, both in your endevours to find and be treated
with ibogaine, and in finding an email list that stays perpetually on topic.
;-))
Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration

Dear list,
For f,,ks sake,
can we keep all this personal shit off line,I have just read approx 15
posts
and only
one of them talks about Ibogaine,all this conflict on line is not what
people seeking help
want to listen to(read).

For some of us this list is almost a last hope,if we must put shit on
someone,wether it is constructive or not,
lets do it privatley so the rest of us are not put on a downer as well.
I mean,..c’mon(crikey).Lets not forget what this list is about….please!
Jasen
(Aus)

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 15, 2004 at 1:00:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dare I say it but I totally agree with you Julian!  I don’t wanna start this off again as I also agree with Lee-ignoreing them seems to be the best tactic.  We can gain much from intelligent criticism-but that doesn’t mean I’m supporting Gboy at all!  I just didn’t want you to feel ‘alone in your stance’,

With love
Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list

Sean, you’re never too positive or personal for me or anyone else. You just keep on communicating as you do. I absolutely agree with you about criticizing for the sake of it. That is what I meant as Vapid criticizm. We share alot here and don’t need that type of shit. Only honest and constructive criticizm if that is even necessary. Maybe I should be less extreme regarding my position on criticizm. I don’t know, it felt and seemed right to me but it appears I am alone in my stance. Though I don’t happen to like criticizm personally, it’s just that I have learned quite a bit from it when it came from people who I knew cared. Hey! Fuck me! The beauty of this country and forum specifically is you don’t have to listen to assholes like myself, dig?

The best to you Sean,

Julian

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Apologies
Date: September 15, 2004 at 12:25:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear all,

I too would like to follow Preston’s lead, and
apologize for my behaviour yesterday.  I was stressed
and under deadlines, and I allowed myself to rant and
to temporarily hijack the list.

It was in bad form, and I apologize…

Julie 🙂

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] For Preston
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:56:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I wanted to ask you something off the list – unrelated to the list.

I am unfamiliar with list etiquette. So I wanted to ask you if I could contact you on your list email? You can get back to me on mine.

Thanks,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:51:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/14/2004 3:17:55 PM Central Daylight Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
If this list is to continue and be the excellent drop in point it is for people with serious drug related issues etc it has to band together and simply ignore completely these emails from gboy.

Hi!
I know gboy is irritating to some but I see gboy as harmless.
Since most of gboys posts are directed to Patrick, I think Patrick will handle gboy in his own way!
There is far too much sunshine here to worry about the little cloud of gboy. He is not going to destroy or even harm a thing!
I do love your motivation to preserve what is here though! It is that motivation which keeps this list as strong as it is!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Mindvox and Virtual Community
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:19:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/14/2004 8:35:20 PM Central Daylight Time, jamesladdo@yahoo.com.au writes:
I’ve done a bit of reading on the background of MindVox, you were one
of the first “Virtual Communities” that ever was on the internet.

Virtual Community?
What about the house I rent in MindVox Subdivision? Doesn’t feel ‘virtual’ to me! Does that mean the french toast and blueberries I had with  coffee this morning were ‘virtual’ since I cooked them in my ‘virtual’ kitchen in my ‘virtual’ house I rent in the ‘virtual’ community I spend most of my time in?
Whoa! Pass that bowl! Now I’m confused! 😉
Callie

btw, I am fine, thanks to all who have asked. I will answer your ‘virtual’ communications soon!
I have been in the ‘virtual’ funk!

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] For Preston Sean mark: NY after ibo group
Date: September 15, 2004 at 11:03:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is for Preston, Mark, Sean, sorry if I am
forgetting someone else but really to all the after
ibogaine people in NY right now.

What do you do in your after ibogaine group? Is it a
traditional group or different and why do you not want
to go Preston? I’m wondering what everybody is doing
because the hardest time for me was 2 to 3 months
after ibogaine, then I went nutso for maybe 3 more
months and it’s also where I relapsed after the first
time I did ibogaine 🙁 By the time I did it the
second time I got through it, but it was still the
hardest time ever for me and I wasn’t able to really
get support anywhere except my therapist who was truly
helpful to me during this time. The 12 step groups
didn’t do much for me but I still went some of the
time to be around other people, but I could never say
too much of anything without being surrounded by
people in recovery telling me that everything I was
doing was wrong 🙁

Do you guys have a real after ibogaine group or is it
just a get together, what do you do and back to you
Preston 😉 How come you don’t want to do any groups?
What are you doing instead?

Love to all of you

Carla B

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From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Gboy where it all begins!
Date: September 15, 2004 at 7:28:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 9/15/2004, “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Everything really is on someone’s web page somewhere 🙂

This is where it all began the birth of Gboy!

http://www.hyperreal.org/~melzie/KF-Final.pdf

Along with what looks like hundreds of photos of a redhead raver who
wears mindvox t-shirts. She’s not bad 🙂

All of this finally made sense, Hyperreal is one of the sites that was
started when Mindvox shut down. That is why all the Mindvox drug
archives were on Hyperreal and ended up on Erowid when Hyperreal
stopped being a public site.

Learning new things 🙂

..:vector:.

ok, patrick………if’n i get a vote, give vector his long wanted
vector@phantom.com box. he’s the class historian. (how’s he cum up wid
dis shit?!!!!!!!!)

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Mindvox and Virtual Community
Date: September 15, 2004 at 3:19:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 14, 2004, at 9:33 PM, James Addo wrote:

What is it that MindVox is,

It’s like, this THING.  People say stuff.  Afterwards, they calm down.

why does it work?

Why not?

Sorry for the length of this letter.

Not a problem.  That’ll be $750 please.

Patrick

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Gboy where it all begins!
Date: September 15, 2004 at 1:29:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Everything really is on someone’s web page somewhere 🙂

This is where it all began the birth of Gboy!

http://www.hyperreal.org/~melzie/KF-Final.pdf

Along with what looks like hundreds of photos of a redhead raver who
wears mindvox t-shirts. She’s not bad 🙂

All of this finally made sense, Hyperreal is one of the sites that was
started when Mindvox shut down. That is why all the Mindvox drug
archives were on Hyperreal and ended up on Erowid when Hyperreal
stopped being a public site.

Learning new things 🙂

.:vector:.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Mindvox and Virtual Community
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:59:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hate intellectuals 😉

Smoke a bowl and it will all start to make sense.

It’s in the Mindvox about section anyway.

.:vector:.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=About

MindVox is powered by an 8.0-liter V-13 engine. It features dual orgone
injectors and a Vril supercharger; generating nearly 1.5 times infinite
Horsepower (@ 9000rpm). It is housed in a floating sphere which makes
use of the latest anti-gravity technology recovered from crashed UFOs.
The VoxSphere is composed of ultra-lightweight composite materials
designed to absorb radio energy, subpoenas, arrest warrants, and
negatively-charged vibrational fields.

MindVox is fueled by a precise combination of Phenethylamines,
Tryptamines, and Beta-Carbolines. On a good day it can achieve
superluminal velocity using quantum electronics, wishful thinking, and
the souls of its enemies. Conversely, on a bad day it may just sit in a
dark room bangin’ up narcotic analgesics and burning holes in the
furniture as it drops lit cigarettes all over everything while nodding
out.

MindVox resonates with the harmonics of all thoughtscapes, headspaces,
and dimensions. It has been online since the Dawn of Time and will spin
through the tapestry of shared consensual hallucinations for All
Eternity. In certain locations MindVox may appear to experience cosmic
turbulence and flicker out of existence, fading like a mirage. Since
time is nonlinear — time, in fact, looks like an endlessly
interlocking series of spirals fragmenting inwards and outward
simultaneously — this phenomenon is illusory and transient; merely
indicating MindVox is Temporarily Unavailable for a few minutes,
decades, or lifetimes.

MindVox runs an operating system so advanced it is incompatible with
itself, but fully error-correcting. It utilizes spectrophotometric
determination to weed out irregular cell morphology and is capable of
compiling against the functions of an angle of incidence using a
sub-femtosecond measurement of transmission delay times, in order to
obtain a photonic bandgap. This will cause MindVox to drop to monitor
— with or without an NMI switch — allowing you to insert a disk
containing DOS 3.3, and use any hex editor to alter the DNA.

All is well. Try not to panic. Things will be EVEN BETTER than fine;
the angels WANT you to be Baker-acted — no wait, wrong conversation.

MindVox is the Greatest Thing that has Ever Existed

— James Addo <jamesladdo@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

I have a question for Patrick I believe but open to anyone who cares
to
comment. I’ve done a bit of reading on the background of MindVox, you

were one
of the first “Virtual Communities” that ever was on the internet. The

subject
matter of numerous books on online social interaction and culture is

MindVox.

I’ve not so much interested in first person accounts because they are
obviously subjective and vary greatly, but in addition to the mass
market more
popular tomes from the likes of Howard Rheingold, there are
interesting
papers
from Stanford Research Institute on community, where MindVox is
covered
heavily and you (Patrick) and Bruce Fancher are interviewed and in
particular
Jim Meyer’s Social Organization of the Computer Underground which was
rewritten from the document he presented for his MA and turned into
his
doctoral thesis as an undergrad under Dr. Jim Thomas, a criminologist

who was
one of the big proponents of MindVox and made it his home base.

The mass media is more prone to hyperbole and referenced MindVox as
the
Lower
East Side of the matrix, or a Hell’s Angels bar.

What was and to me is far more interesting is that you appear to have

achieved
and sustained workable anarchy.

There aren’t any rules, there is no censorship, there is unfocused
anger that
comes around, but all these problems exist everywhere. What’s
fascinating to
me is that all of it appears to resolve itself somehow without any
intervention or threat of recourse.

Why is that and how is it that MindVox works? From the numerous works

that
have cover this very topic, there are many theories but no
conclusion.
You’ve
been doing this since before the “internet” was the internet, MindVox

has been
online since 1991. Do you know what you’re doing intellectually or is

it all
intuitive? How is it sustained?

I’ve not been on this list more then 6 months but I’ve watched with
interest
as it continues and grows larger. It should devolve into chaos, but
it
never
does. Why is that?

Thanks for any insights, on or off list, the topic of ibogaine is
fascinating
in itself but I’m much more interested in how people interact. The
two
virtual
communities that defined the term and continue to exist, were The
WELL
in San
Francisco and MindVox in NY. The Well took a similar approach as
MindVox but
had older clientele and changed when the service was brought out in
the
90’s.
MindVox was also brought out in the 90’s, but seemingly you sold the

entire
customer base to another company and kept MindVox and all your
domains.

This is in itself another topic, MindVox is the only virtual
community
that
did not go bankrupt and fail or get absorbed into a larger company.
You
shut
it down one day and told everybody to get out? Leaving yourselves
with
your
very own empty city in cyberspace. The members went everywhere, some

tried to
start their own virtual communities based on a version of MindVox and

what it
meant to them, but all of them failed, not one lasted. Why? What is
MindVox?
What does phantom.com mean? Is any of this by design or does it all
happen? I
am very fascinated by this place. I am even more fascinated that it
wasn’t a
fluke or a cultural change at an exact time, because you’re doing it

again.

What is it that MindVox is, why does it work?

Sorry for the length of this letter.

James Addo, MA

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:58:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,
For f,,ks sake,
can we keep all this personal shit off line,I have just read approx 15 posts
and only
one of them talks about Ibogaine,all this conflict on line is not what
people seeking help
want to listen to(read).

For some of us this list is almost a last hope,if we must put shit on
someone,wether it is constructive or not,
lets do it privatley so the rest of us are not put on a downer as well.
I mean,..c’mon(crikey).Lets not forget what this list is about….please!
Jasen (Aus)

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From: James Addo <jamesladdo@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mindvox and Virtual Community
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:33:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a question for Patrick I believe but open to anyone who cares to
comment. I’ve done a bit of reading on the background of MindVox, you were one
of the first “Virtual Communities” that ever was on the internet. The subject
matter of numerous books on online social interaction and culture is MindVox.

I’ve not so much interested in first person accounts because they are
obviously subjective and vary greatly, but in addition to the mass market more
popular tomes from the likes of Howard Rheingold, there are interesting papers
from Stanford Research Institute on community, where MindVox is covered
heavily and you (Patrick) and Bruce Fancher are interviewed and in particular
Jim Meyer’s Social Organization of the Computer Underground which was
rewritten from the document he presented for his MA and turned into his
doctoral thesis as an undergrad under Dr. Jim Thomas, a criminologist who was
one of the big proponents of MindVox and made it his home base.

The mass media is more prone to hyperbole and referenced MindVox as the Lower
East Side of the matrix, or a Hell’s Angels bar.

What was and to me is far more interesting is that you appear to have achieved
and sustained workable anarchy.

There aren’t any rules, there is no censorship, there is unfocused anger that
comes around, but all these problems exist everywhere. What’s fascinating to
me is that all of it appears to resolve itself somehow without any
intervention or threat of recourse.

Why is that and how is it that MindVox works? From the numerous works that
have cover this very topic, there are many theories but no conclusion. You’ve
been doing this since before the “internet” was the internet, MindVox has been
online since 1991. Do you know what you’re doing intellectually or is it all
intuitive? How is it sustained?

I’ve not been on this list more then 6 months but I’ve watched with interest
as it continues and grows larger. It should devolve into chaos, but it never
does. Why is that?

Thanks for any insights, on or off list, the topic of ibogaine is fascinating
in itself but I’m much more interested in how people interact. The two virtual
communities that defined the term and continue to exist, were The WELL in San
Francisco and MindVox in NY. The Well took a similar approach as MindVox but
had older clientele and changed when the service was brought out in the 90’s.
MindVox was also brought out in the 90’s, but seemingly you sold the entire
customer base to another company and kept MindVox and all your domains.

This is in itself another topic, MindVox is the only virtual community that
did not go bankrupt and fail or get absorbed into a larger company. You shut
it down one day and told everybody to get out? Leaving yourselves with your
very own empty city in cyberspace. The members went everywhere, some tried to
start their own virtual communities based on a version of MindVox and what it
meant to them, but all of them failed, not one lasted. Why? What is MindVox?
What does phantom.com mean? Is any of this by design or does it all happen? I
am very fascinated by this place. I am even more fascinated that it wasn’t a
fluke or a cultural change at an exact time, because you’re doing it again.

What is it that MindVox is, why does it work?

Sorry for the length of this letter.

James Addo, MA

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:13:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

That would be just super!

Sean (who is feeling super, thanks for asking)!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:13:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, but I like his sentiment, the whole “let’s try and be positive rather
than negative” because, well, that’s what I want in my life. So if I make an
effort (without resorting to that “born-again-with-a-vacuous grin” state) to
be positive, perhaps that is what I’ll find in my life more often.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!

Hi Lee,

Well, I cannot say I agree entirely. If you remember the description of this
list at ibogaine.mindvox, it’s really not a recovery site form addiction so
much as a group of insane people, some still using some not, who talk about
anything from Philip K. Dick (I enjoy Dick talk) to a rant about your day.
Those sitting with a needle in one arm, a crackpipe in their mouth and one
hand on the keyboard are welcome, as long as they don’t act like an asshole.
Be cool.  The one rule here.

I wouldn’t want it any other way.:)

Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] E-mail met bijlage (attachment): IMGA0128
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:09:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sigh.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:42 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] E-mail met bijlage (attachment): IMGA0128

De bestanden zijn als bijlage toegevoegd en kunnen nu met het bericht
worden
verzonden.

Wow, that’s much beter now, just try to smell this and then you can start
fresh.

Gboy, cool down we past you the joint!

Sara

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:07:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee posted such positivity as >suggest every time another of these dark
earth emails arrive the response be to post (for example) something
beautiful or perhaps reaffirm why you are on this list and the good it is
doing. Just come back with something positive and ignore the mail
altogether. That’s the best way of eventually seeing this off.

The dark can only be dispelled by the light. Otherwise it overtakes it.

Lets make this list a good place to be and not allow negative forces drag it
down.

Let the sun shine in!<

In chagrin, I agree. I apologize to the list for getting po’ed in public.
I’m trying to be super but still find myself giving in to my un-superness at
times.
I allow my pain issues to really overtake me at times too and can get grumpy
as hell dwelling on them. I’ll try to be superer in the future, ’cause Lee
is totally correct.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!

Hi All,

A counsellor once told me that the best way to deal with ignorant people is
to ignore them.

Clearly blowing off at someone who is untouchable takes us down into our own
deepest frustrations and actually is more harmful to us than it is to them.
They are feeding off that destruction in the same way that parasitic demons
feed off our hurt and pain and drive us to anger. That’s the dark side which
loves to redicule anything of value and watch it completely undermined.

If this list is to continue and be the excellent drop in point it is for
people with serious drug related issues etc it has to band together and
simply ignore completely these emails from gboy. There needs to be a
consensus on this. People depend on this list. Someone coming in will see
this gboy for what he is and be impressed by the way the list deals with
it – instead of wanting off the list.

I suggest every time another of these dark earth emails arrive the response
be to post (for example) something beautiful or perhaps reaffirm why you are
on this list and the good it is doing. Just come back with something
positive and ignore the mail altogether. That’s the best way of eventually
seeing this off.

The dark can only be dispelled by the light. Otherwise it overtakes it.

Lets make this list a good place to be and not allow negative forces drag it
down.

Let the sun shine in!

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:53:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason,

That was very cool…well put together..Thanks for
putting things in perspective…I can almost see/hear
Kid Koala spinning records in the background.

Julie  🙂

— Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Dr. Robert Temple, director of the F.D.A.’s office
of medical policy,

Said:

Do you realize how ridiculous your posts are?

There are many ways to learn in life.

write up how your the next jim morrison, to

shooting it all up and being a junkie living

on the street? transfering other irritations onto
Get a fucking life. unless

it is full of something positive. Discussion?

I guess there is in the background 😉 its too bad
your not that good at being

a person (wants a little

attention?) LOL, sounds familiar.

LOL, sounds familiar.

why do you keep reading and writing to a

drug oriented list with rock star charisma? Sorry,
but I don’t follow your logic.

I have never ever

read

anything at all BUT negative suicidal bullshit adds
nothing but irritation to my day(night/morning).  if
you freak every time, you’ll never make it.

even if it’s done in a very psycho and

confrontational way

criticism and negativity exist.  I choose how I
react to it.

especially since Patrick is a friend of mine.  I
think people

have

mentioned that 100000000 times. into an alpha state.
Rest should follow.

I kinda like balance, You at least can be irritating
AND amusing AND seriously deep too-

Why are you so hostile?

Sorry about peeving you

The dark can only be dispelled by the light.
Otherwise it overtakes it.

Lets make this list a good place to be and not allow
negative forces drag it down.

Let the sun shine in!

especially once I realize it gets to the point that
you almost feel like you know and care about people
Or is that too damn positive?

you can

start

fresh.

*applause*

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:42:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason,

Bravo.

Sean

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] cut up let go frustration
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:34:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr. Robert Temple, director of the F.D.A.’s office of medical policy,
Said:

Do you realize how ridiculous your posts are?
There are many ways to learn in life.
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street? transfering other irritations onto Get a fucking life. unless
it is full of something positive. Discussion?
I guess there is in the background 😉 its too bad your not that good at being
a person (wants a little
attention?) LOL, sounds familiar.
LOL, sounds familiar.
why do you keep reading and writing to a
drug oriented list with rock star charisma? Sorry, but I don’t follow your logic.

I have never ever
read
anything at all BUT negative suicidal bullshit adds nothing but irritation to my day(night/morning).  if you freak every time, you’ll never make it.
even if it’s done in a very psycho and
confrontational way
criticism and negativity exist.  I choose how I react to it.

especially since Patrick is a friend of mine.  I think people
have
mentioned that 100000000 times. into an alpha state. Rest should follow.
I kinda like balance, You at least can be irritating AND amusing AND seriously deep too-

Why are you so hostile?
Sorry about peeving you

The dark can only be dispelled by the light. Otherwise it overtakes it.

Lets make this list a good place to be and not allow negative forces drag it down.

Let the sun shine in!

especially once I realize it gets to the point that you almost feel like you know and care about people Or is that too damn positive?

you can
start
fresh.

*applause*
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:34:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Julian,

Now we will criticize criticism.  Discuss.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] E-mail met bijlage (attachment): IMGA0128
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:29:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

You know, I almost could smell it. Thanks. That is one helluva weed!:)

Sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:27:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, you’re never too positive or personal for me or anyone else. You just keep on communicating as you do. I absolutely agree with you about criticizing for the sake of it. That is what I meant as Vapid criticizm. We share alot here and don’t need that type of shit. Only honest and constructive criticizm if that is even necessary. Maybe I should be less extreme regarding my position on criticizm. I don’t know, it felt and seemed right to me but it appears I am alone in my stance. Though I don’t happen to like criticizm personally, it’s just that I have learned quite a bit from it when it came from people who I knew cared. Hey! Fuck me! The beauty of this country and forum specifically is you don’t have to listen to assholes like myself, dig?

The best to you Sean,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] E-mail met bijlage (attachment): IMGA0128
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:17:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, I can not wait to see you! You always say the ‘perfect’ thing at the ‘perfect’ time! As soon as my passport arrives. See you soon.

With love,

Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:12:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,

Well, I cannot say I agree entirely. If you remember the description of this list at ibogaine.mindvox, it’s really not a recovery site form addiction so much as a group of insane people, some still using some not, who talk about anything from Philip K. Dick (I enjoy Dick talk) to a rant about your day.  Those sitting with a needle in one arm, a crackpipe in their mouth and one hand on the keyboard are welcome, as long as they don’t act like an asshole.  Be cool.  The one rule here.

I wouldn’t want it any other way.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 14, 2004 at 7:41:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey sjonny,

No problem mahn. I’m really tired myself lately.  been working 12 hour days.  Then most weeknights I’m so tired I don’t want to do anything but sit at the computer. Suppose there are worse things I could be doing.

BTW  Any way you can avoid the streets is better, imo. Between the cops and the thugs….you know what I mean.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 7:30:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Julian,

I really have seen very little in the way of personal attack here, although I think sometimes telling stories of my past does not bring out the best in people. I mean, if you are active on this list, it gets to the point that you almost feel like you know and care about people, so you don’t want to criticize for the sake of it.

Anyway, good to your posts as usual. Or is that too damn positive?  See I just cannot help myself.

sean

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] E-mail met bijlage (attachment): IMGA0128
Date: September 14, 2004 at 5:42:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

De bestanden zijn als bijlage toegevoegd en kunnen nu met het bericht worden
verzonden.

Wow, that’s much beter now, just try to smell this and then you can start
fresh.

Gboy, cool down we past you the joint!

Sara

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Let the Sun shine in!
Date: September 14, 2004 at 4:17:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

A counsellor once told me that the best way to deal with ignorant people is to ignore them.

Clearly blowing off at someone who is untouchable takes us down into our own deepest frustrations and actually is more harmful to us than it is to them. They are feeding off that destruction in the same way that parasitic demons feed off our hurt and pain and drive us to anger. That’s the dark side which loves to redicule anything of value and watch it completely undermined.

If this list is to continue and be the excellent drop in point it is for people with serious drug related issues etc it has to band together and simply ignore completely these emails from gboy. There needs to be a consensus on this. People depend on this list. Someone coming in will see this gboy for what he is and be impressed by the way the list deals with it – instead of wanting off the list.

I suggest every time another of these dark earth emails arrive the response be to post (for example) something beautiful or perhaps reaffirm why you are on this list and the good it is doing. Just come back with something positive and ignore the mail altogether. That’s the best way of eventually seeing this off.

The dark can only be dispelled by the light. Otherwise it overtakes it.

Lets make this list a good place to be and not allow negative forces drag it down.

Let the sun shine in!

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] to Julian
Date: September 14, 2004 at 3:38:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

I just realized I addressed this to myself; it was
intended for you.

Listen, you are the first person on this list that I
have had “words” with, and I hope you will be the
last.  I didn’t join this list to fight, but rather to
learn and help, and so far, everyone has been
supportive and kind.  The first email you addressed to
me seemed like an attempt to insult me, to condescend
to me, and to be combatative(sp??).

I’m sorry if I have rubbed you the wrong way, but I
will not allow myself to digress again- Any future
‘critique’ of yours will go unanswered.

Wish you luck and good health,

Julie 🙂
— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Julie, (shoud have been Julian)

Um, I have no interest in fighting with you- am I
not
allowed to critique YOUR statements?  You certainly
‘critiqued’ mine a couple of days ago.  If I’m not,
then your whole point is null and void, not to
mention
hypocritical.

Listen, I have no idea who you are, and quite
frankly,
I don’t care, as it doesn’t matter anyways…I just
think you are trying to justify negative behaviour-
why not emphasize someone’s good points- God knows,
Patrick has many of them.  Instead of chastising
that
little tw*t gboy or whatever his name was, you
encouraged his negative statements by giving him
carte
blanche…Do you think HIS criticism was “valid”?

Oh, and BTW, your whole comment is ridiculous- you
say
you don’t want a war with me, but then you put me
down??  You don’t know a fucking thing about me, so
please just drop it.  And in case you forget, you
put
ME on the DEFENSIVE first with your condescending
email about junk dealers and, er, drug economics???.

Oh, and about having a fight offline- get a life!  I
work online, and thus read and post quite often.
But
to engage in verbal warfare with someone who
obviously
doesn’t care or want to know about my opinion or
person, is a big WASTE OF TIME.  Find someone else
to
pick on.

Have a nice day,
Julie  🙂

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

Julie, I am sorry you choose to misread and
misinterpret my messages. You
have not read my message. Preston on the other
hand
did. I never said it is OK to
just put someone down. I wasn’t even justifying
the
criticizm. What I said
was in general, some people have a hard time with
criticizm (me being one) but
if it is due to ego, it is silly. A person can
learn
alot from valid criticizm.
I also specifically bowed out of the situation
with
gboy and Patrick because
I don’t know the specifics. I happen to like
Patrick
very much and think
highly of his talent and being. Look, if you are
looking for constant confrontation
with me, you’re not going to get it. It is not
what
I engage this forum for
but if you wish to fight, we can do it off the
forum
with my other address. You
are a good example of what I mean about a fragile
ego. I disagreed with you
about something (as did a couple of other people)
and you are still freaking
out. Get it together Julie because we all get
criticized and/or corrected
throughout life and if you freak every time,
you’ll
never make it.

Stop being my enemy….I’m not looking for a war!

Julian

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] removal from list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 3:23:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

I think you will need to send an email to:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

Good luck,
Julie
— QURADO@aol.com wrote:

please remove me from list thank you

__________________________________
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From: QURADO@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] removal from list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 3:17:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from list thank you

From: Jdi63@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Removal
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:52:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please remove me from this list.
Thanks.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:48:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Patrick is a pretty cool dude- why is criticizing
him
beneficial to anyone’s ego?  It just seems sad and
lame, not to mention parasitic.

Sorry, but I don’t follow your logic.

Julie

Hi Julian I agree that having a conversation or airing
any problems even if it’s done in a very psycho and
confrontational way like sometimes happens on the
ibogaine list is mostly a good thing.

The part where I agree with Julie is that there
doesn’t seem to be any problem at all, except Gboy
shows up once a month or so, says something obnoxious
about Patrick or Howard and then leaves. This is the
only thing he has done in months. His problem looks
like being dissed at a party last Christmas where
Patrick, Dana and Howard were all present. That’s when
his first message happens, that’s when it all starts
and it’s never about anything exactly it’s always
taking potshots or like Bill Ross says ‘trolling’ he
wants some response, gets it and goes away for another
month. There is never any discussion about anything or
I guess there is in the background 😉 off-list.

Gboy, Patrick runs mindvox and gives you this place
for free to say stupid petty things about him and
Howard. He was a junkie for most of his life, I don’t
think he’s ever gone out of his way to hide that, drug
addiction is the reason most of us are here. If you
think it’s so funny to go from having everything to
‘shooting it all up and being a junkie living on the
street’ then why do you keep reading and writing to a
drug oriented list?

I don’t know what it feels like to be patrick either,
but having people write chapters about me in 20
different books doesn’t sound bad to me 🙂 What is it
that you’ve ever done except taken potshots at people?

“I scroll down through more than sixty thousand bits
of Patrick Kroupa’s editorial. Kroupa, who has been
described by the Associated Press as “a towering
25-year-old high school dropout in a black leather
jacket, with long hair gathered under a gray bandanna,
three earrings and a hearty laugh,” is one of
MindVox’s two principal gods, the other being Bruce
Fancher, a twenty-three-year-old who dropped out of
Tufts to cofound the system. Bruce minds the store.
Patrick imbues it with rock star charisma. And between
Bruce’s intellectual elbow grease, Patrick’s Jim
Morrisonesque mystique, and the collective cachet of
the entire semi-reformed Legion of Doom, MindVox has
cultivated the noble rot of cyberpunk legitimacy. It
has drawn bohemians like moths to a lava lamp.”

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Akashic

Sounds good to me 🙂

Carla B

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

I don’t know the specifics with gboy and the
people
he refers to but in his
defense, he is quite correct about criticizm on
this
forum. One of the crucial
aspects of life is accepting life on it’s terms
and
not always on yours.
Criticizm and negativity exist and should exist!
People on this forum have no
problem criticizing ‘Bush’ and his socio-political
philosophy but if someone wishes
to criticize a philosophy or person in this forum,
people get way too
sensitive about it and freak out!. There are many
ways to learn in life. Believe it
or not being corrected or criticized are two very
effective methods if you just
put away the fragile ego!

Julian

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list- lay off
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:33:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

Um, I have no interest in fighting with you- am I not
allowed to critique YOUR statements?  You certainly
‘critiqued’ mine a couple of days ago.  If I’m not,
then your whole point is null and void, not to mention
hypocritical.

Listen, I have no idea who you are, and quite frankly,
I don’t care, as it doesn’t matter anyways…I just
think you are trying to justify negative behaviour-
why not emphasize someone’s good points- God knows,
Patrick has many of them.  Instead of chastising that
little tw*t gboy or whatever his name was, you
encouraged his negative statements by giving him carte
blanche…Do you think HIS criticism was “valid”?

Oh, and BTW, your whole comment is ridiculous- you say
you don’t want a war with me, but then you put me
down??  You don’t know a fucking thing about me, so
please just drop it.  And in case you forget, you put
ME on the DEFENSIVE first with your condescending
email about junk dealers and, er, drug economics???.
Oh, and about having a fight offline- get a life!  I
work online, and thus read and post quite often.  But
to engage in verbal warfare with someone who obviously
doesn’t care or want to know about my opinion or
person, is a big WASTE OF TIME.  Find someone else to
pick on.

Have a nice day,
Julie  🙂
— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

Julie, I am sorry you choose to misread and
misinterpret my messages. You
have not read my message. Preston on the other
hand
did. I never said it is OK to
just put someone down. I wasn’t even justifying
the
criticizm. What I said
was in general, some people have a hard time with
criticizm (me being one) but
if it is due to ego, it is silly. A person can
learn
alot from valid criticizm.
I also specifically bowed out of the situation
with
gboy and Patrick because
I don’t know the specifics. I happen to like
Patrick
very much and think
highly of his talent and being. Look, if you are
looking for constant confrontation
with me, you’re not going to get it. It is not
what
I engage this forum for
but if you wish to fight, we can do it off the
forum
with my other address. You
are a good example of what I mean about a fragile
ego. I disagreed with you
about something (as did a couple of other people)
and you are still freaking
out. Get it together Julie because we all get
criticized and/or corrected
throughout life and if you freak every time,
you’ll
never make it.

Stop being my enemy….I’m not looking for a war!

Julian

__________________________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list- lay off
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:29:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,

Um, I have no interest in fighting with you- am I not
allowed to critique YOUR statements?  You certainly
‘critiqued’ mine a couple of days ago.  If I’m not,
then your whole point is null and void, not to mention
hypocritical.

Listen, I have no idea who you are, and quite frankly,
I don’t care, as it doesn’t matter anyways…I just
think you are trying to justify negative behaviour-
why not emphasize someone’s good points- God knows,
Patrick has many of them.  Instead of chastising that
little tw*t gboy or whatever his name was, you
encouraged his negative statements by giving him carte
blanche…Do you think HIS criticism was “valid”?

Oh, and BTW, your whole comment is ridiculous- you say
you don’t want a war with me, but then you put me
down??  You don’t know a fucking thing about me, so
please just drop it.  And in case you forget, you put
ME on the DEFENSIVE first with your condescending
email about junk dealers and, er, drug economics???.
Oh, and about having a fight offline- get a life!  I
work online, and thus read and post quite often.  But
to engage in verbal warfare with someone who obviously
doesn’t care or want to know about my opinion or
person, is a big WASTE OF TIME.  Find someone else to
pick on.

Have a nice day,
Julie  🙂

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

Julie, I am sorry you choose to misread and
misinterpret my messages. You
have not read my message. Preston on the other hand
did. I never said it is OK to
just put someone down. I wasn’t even justifying the
criticizm. What I said
was in general, some people have a hard time with
criticizm (me being one) but
if it is due to ego, it is silly. A person can learn
alot from valid criticizm.
I also specifically bowed out of the situation with
gboy and Patrick because
I don’t know the specifics. I happen to like Patrick
very much and think
highly of his talent and being. Look, if you are
looking for constant confrontation
with me, you’re not going to get it. It is not what
I engage this forum for
but if you wish to fight, we can do it off the forum
with my other address. You
are a good example of what I mean about a fragile
ego. I disagreed with you
about something (as did a couple of other people)
and you are still freaking
out. Get it together Julie because we all get
criticized and/or corrected
throughout life and if you freak every time, you’ll
never make it.

Stop being my enemy….I’m not looking for a war!

Julian

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:16:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yo…you okay preston? call me when you get a chance.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Next day came thing. I was new in the city, so I did not want to get
ripped off. But I quickly found people over all the city willing to help me
spend my cash, so in two days I may have spent 10 minutes with like 10
different people.<

LOL, sounds familiar.

>Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway. It can be a
real a turnoff when you don’t know the person.<

You handled it in very adult-like fashion Sean.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg

I was a little peeved by sonnygee’s post, until I realized that he probably
has no idea what a junkie’s day can be like. I was brought to the
aforementioned white supremacists by dope dealing middleman. I bought the
shit and left them. Total interaction: five minuets. Next day came thing.
I was new in the city, so I did not want to get ripped off. But I quickly
found people over all the city willing to help me spend my cash, so in two
days I may have spent 10 minutes with like 10 different people.

On the third day, I decided to do my shot and hang for a few minutes. The
guy stared doing his white supremacist crap, and I got the hell out of
there. Actually I decided to come home. Kind of a last straw.

Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway. It can be a
real a turnoff when you don’t know the person. So keep your warm fuzzies
sonny!

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:14:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, I am sorry you choose to misread and misinterpret my messages. You have not read my message. Preston on the other hand did. I never said it is OK to just put someone down. I wasn’t even justifying the criticizm. What I said was in general, some people have a hard time with criticizm (me being one) but if it is due to ego, it is silly. A person can learn alot from valid criticizm. I also specifically bowed out of the situation with gboy and Patrick because I don’t know the specifics. I happen to like Patrick very much and think highly of his talent and being. Look, if you are looking for constant confrontation with me, you’re not going to get it. It is not what I engage this forum for but if you wish to fight, we can do it off the forum with my other address. You are a good example of what I mean about a fragile ego. I disagreed with you about something (as did a couple of other people) and you are still freaking out. Get it together Julie because we all get criticized and/or corrected throughout life and if you freak every time, you’ll never make it.

Stop being my enemy….I’m not looking for a war!

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 2:04:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey P! You are totally right about vapid and meaningless comments. If that’s what it is about, then there really is very little one can get out of it. Like I said in the first letter, I don’t know what the situation is with Patrick and gboy and I guess it isn’t really my business. By the way, my ego is fragile and I don’t particularly like criticizm myself, but I’ve learned if it comes from a decent person and is well meant, I could get alot out of it. I don’t want you to think that I am some real tough guy that can take any kind of shit and it never bothers me. It does….Also Preston, I want to talk to you about High Times. Should I use this e-mail address?

Regards my man,

Julian

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 1:31:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hear hear.  *applause*

Julie

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

my question is in reading the
mindvox akashic records a great rise and fall
story, what’s it feel like to go from having
everything, props money and having magazines
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street?<

Why are you so hostile?
How does it feel to be an anonymous punk who refuses
to identify
him(her?)self, hanging out using Dana’s computer (so
far as I know from the
very limited details I have of your own ‘story’ so
far), snipping at the
heels of other people? Do you realize how ridiculous
your posts are? How
worthless and irritating (to me at least) these
occasional spurts of yours
are? Why are you picking at Patrick? Why don’t you
actually do something
yourself rather than taking pot shot on this here
list that don’t do
anything at all except irritate and add shit and
nastiness to my morning?
Get a fucking life little person.

Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <gboy@hush.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:58 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow
night on the list

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I would say something but I’m no lot allowed
to mention the names howard or patrick unless
it is a post full of something positive.

Ill ask a question instead is that still
allowed or will someone threatne to cut off
my source of something?

patrick, your a amazing writer dog, without
any sarcasm or dissing you, you are really
good. its too bad your not that good at being
a person. my question is in reading the
mindvox akashic records a great rise and fall
story, what’s it feel like to go from having
everything, props money and having magazines
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street?

.g

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:34:42 -0700 Vector Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com>

wrote:
Yeh that Patrick Kroupa guy is a a wicked writer,
I think people
have
mentioned that 100000000 times. Considering he
wrote that when was
was
21 or 22 and it went into wired and made the
whole world take note,
you
would think that he’d finish his novel because
he’s going to own.

Wherever that patrick kroupa person is, he should
hurry up and finish
his book already because I want to read it 🙂

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen
Mindvox in a while.
Just
spent
an hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick
Kroupa. Some really
find writing. Guess I will go to sleep
now…the history of Mindvox
has
put me into an alpha state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

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__________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 1:28:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick is a pretty cool dude- why is criticizing him
beneficial to anyone’s ego?  It just seems sad and
lame, not to mention parasitic.

Sorry, but I don’t follow your logic.

Julie

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

I don’t know the specifics with gboy and the people
he refers to but in his
defense, he is quite correct about criticizm on this
forum. One of the crucial
aspects of life is accepting life on it’s terms and
not always on yours.
Criticizm and negativity exist and should exist!
People on this forum have no
problem criticizing ‘Bush’ and his socio-political
philosophy but if someone wishes
to criticize a philosophy or person in this forum,
people get way too
sensitive about it and freak out!. There are many
ways to learn in life. Believe it
or not being corrected or criticized are two very
effective methods if you just
put away the fragile ego!

Julian

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 14, 2004 at 11:41:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

REgarding your experience, I have often found myself, when using, in the midst of people that scared the shit out of me. I have done so many things that, while not hurting anyone but me, really devalued me to myself. As for me, my addiction is like a form of slavery that I want to throw off. I am pro choice (for using any substance anyone wants to use) but its a choice I’m tired of making for myself.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:33:54 EDT

I was a little peeved by sonnygee’s post, until I realized that he probably
has no idea what a junkie’s day can be like.  I was brought to the
aforementioned white supremacists by dope dealing middleman.  I bought the shit and left
them.  Total interaction: five minuets.  Next day came thing.  I was new in the
city, so I did not want to get ripped off.  But I quickly found people over
all the city willing to help me spend my cash, so in two days I may have spent
10 minutes with like 10 different people.

On the third day, I decided to do my shot and hang for a few minutes.  The
guy stared doing his white supremacist crap, and I got the hell out of there.
Actually I decided to come home.  Kind of a last straw.

Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway.  It can be a
real a turnoff when you don’t know the person.  So keep your warm fuzzies
sonny!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 11:32:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Perhaps we could start a harm reduction based chat. I used to be involved with LifeRing Secular Recovery (abstince based) and we had on-line chats every night.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:11:22 EDT

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen Mindvox in a while.  Just spent an
hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick Kroupa.  Some really find writing.
Guess I will go to sleep now…the history of Mindvox has put me into an alpha
state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:21:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry about peeving you Sean, it’s sometimes hard to convey your feelings in type. There was no malice intended – like I said in the p.m. I was in the anl. for some years and …..well you know. btw. I had about 11 years worth of junkies days until I got my cosy meth script a few years ago, still have to score when I get the urge though – I’m waiting for my Ibogaine treatment (should be within 6-8 weeks) to try and slow things down. Once again , sorry if I seemed to snap at you – Peace out…….Sjonnygee !

>From: UUSEAN@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg

>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:33:54 EDT

>

>

>I was a little peeved by sonnygee’s post, until I realized that he probably

>has no idea what a junkie’s day can be like.  I was brought to the

>aforementioned white supremacists by dope dealing middleman.  I bought the shit and left

>them.  Total interaction: five minuets.  Next day came thing.  I was new in the

>city, so I did not want to get ripped off.  But I quickly found people over

>all the city willing to help me spend my cash, so in two days I may have spent

>10 minutes with like 10 different people.

>

>On the third day, I decided to do my shot and hang for a few minutes.  The

>guy stared doing his white supremacist crap, and I got the hell out of there.

>Actually I decided to come home.  Kind of a last straw.

>

>Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway.  It can be a

>real a turnoff when you don’t know the person.  So keep your warm fuzzies

>sonny!

MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced communication tools and great software like MSN Encartaź Premium. Click here for a FREE trial! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:26:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Criticizm and negativity exist and should exist! People on this forum have
no problem criticizing ‘Bush’ and his socio-political philosophy but if
someone wishes to criticize a philosophy or person in this forum, people get
way too sensitive about it and freak out!. There are many ways to learn in
life. Believe it or not being corrected or criticized are two very effective
methods if you just put away the fragile ego!<

I hear you Julian, only, we never ever, or at least, I have never ever read
anything at all BUT negative bullshit outta gboy, and am finally tired of
his picking for nothing-espcially since Patrick is a friend of mine. He has
yet to actually identify him(her)self to us (or to me at least), only to
come on the list, make his(her) stupid negative comments that mean nothing
to me and add nothing but irritation to my day(night/morning) and I for one
am genuinely sick of it. Yeah, criticizm and negativity exist (and yeah, I
know, I choose how I react to it), but I kinda like balance too, and I get
none from gboy whatsoever. You at least can be irritating AND amusing AND
seriously deep too- gboy is only irritating to me. Why would I want to put
up with being irritated by someone anymore than I have to, without at least
making my own opinion (such as it is, and that ain’t much) about gboy’s
stupidity and ridiculousness also public? Because it won’t matter? Because
it won’t change anything? Because that’s what gboy wants, a little
attention? I guess those are all valid arguments against my flying off the
handle and punching him verbally come to think of it. (What is also
irritating to me I just now realize is to think I might very well know this
person having been to Dana’s a lot, yet don’t know who it is- and I might
even be on a first name basis with this person. Egad.)
But it ain’t a fragile ego that drives me to be totally (grrrrr)
irritated (I’d use a lot harsher lingo, as gboy really ain’t worth the
irritation I’m feeling right now and that irritates me too- I think I’m
transfering other irritations onto what little feelings I feel when seeing
gboy pop up to take another worthless verbal dump on this list), it’s
irritation that does it- especially once I realize I’ve taken the minutes I
have now, twice, to respond to his dreck or to something related to it.
Just sayin.

Peace and love to you and yours,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list

I don’t know the specifics with gboy and the people he refers to but in his
defense, he is quite correct about criticizm on this forum. One of the
crucial aspects of life is accepting life on it’s terms and not always on
yours. Criticizm and negativity exist and should exist! People on this forum
have no problem criticizing ‘Bush’ and his socio-political philosophy but if
someone wishes to criticize a philosophy or person in this forum, people get
way too sensitive about it and freak out!. There are many ways to learn in
life. Believe it or not being corrected or criticized are two very effective
methods if you just put away the fragile ego!

Julian

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] F.D.A. Links Drugs to Being Suicidal
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:08:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


F.D.A. Links Drugs to Being Suicidal
By GARDINER HARRIS

Published: September 14, 2004

BETHESDA, Md., Sept. 13 – Top officials of the Food and Drug Administration
acknowledged for the first time on Monday that antidepressants appeared to
lead some children and teenagers to become suicidal.
Dr. Robert Temple, director of the F.D.A.’s office of medical policy, said
after an emotional public hearing here that analyses of 15 clinical trials,
some of which were hidden for years from the public by the drug companies
that sponsored them, showed a consistent link with suicidal behavior.
“I think that we now all believe that there is an increase in suicidal
thinking and action that is consistent across all the drugs,” Dr. Temple
said, summarizing the agency’s presentation to a special advisory committee.
“This looks like it’s a true bill.”
The acknowledgement, made after the hearing, comes a year after the agency
suppressed the conclusions of its own drug-safety analyst, Dr. Andrew
Mosholder, who first found a link between the drugs and suicide in teenagers
and children. Agency officials wrote in internal memorandums that Dr.
Mosholder’s analysis was unreliable, and they hired researchers at Columbia
University to re-analyze the same data. That study recently reached
conclusions nearly identical to Dr. Mosholder’s.
The testimony came before an advisory committee of 31 independent experts
that the F.D.A. has charged with making a recommendation about the labeling
and use of antidepressants in children and teenagers.
Family members of suicide victims at the hearing angrily denounced agency
officials for the delay in admitting the risk of antidepressants in
children. The British health authorities decided in December to ban the use
of most antidepressants in children and teenagers.
Mathy Milling Downing of Laytonsville, Md., whose 12-year-old daughter
hanged herself in January, said: “Candace’s death was entirely avoidable had
we been given the appropriate warnings. “The blood of these children is on
your hands.”
snip-

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 9:02:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my question is in reading the
mindvox akashic records a great rise and fall
story, what’s it feel like to go from having
everything, props money and having magazines
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street?<

Why are you so hostile?
How does it feel to be an anonymous punk who refuses to identify
him(her?)self, hanging out using Dana’s computer (so far as I know from the
very limited details I have of your own ‘story’ so far), snipping at the
heels of other people? Do you realize how ridiculous your posts are? How
worthless and irritating (to me at least) these occasional spurts of yours
are? Why are you picking at Patrick? Why don’t you actually do something
yourself rather than taking pot shot on this here list that don’t do
anything at all except irritate and add shit and nastiness to my morning?
Get a fucking life little person.

Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <gboy@hush.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:58 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I would say something but I’m no lot allowed
to mention the names howard or patrick unless
it is a post full of something positive.

Ill ask a question instead is that still
allowed or will someone threatne to cut off
my source of something?

patrick, your a amazing writer dog, without
any sarcasm or dissing you, you are really
good. its too bad your not that good at being
a person. my question is in reading the
mindvox akashic records a great rise and fall
story, what’s it feel like to go from having
everything, props money and having magazines
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street?

.g

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:34:42 -0700 Vector Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com>

wrote:
Yeh that Patrick Kroupa guy is a a wicked writer, I think people
have
mentioned that 100000000 times. Considering he wrote that when was
was
21 or 22 and it went into wired and made the whole world take note,
you
would think that he’d finish his novel because he’s going to own.

Wherever that patrick kroupa person is, he should hurry up and finish
his book already because I want to read it 🙂

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen Mindvox in a while.
Just
spent
an hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick Kroupa. Some really
find writing. Guess I will go to sleep now…the history of Mindvox
has
put me into an alpha state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 14, 2004 at 8:35:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Next day came thing.  I was new in the city, so I did not want to get
ripped off.  But I quickly found people over all the city willing to help me
spend my cash, so in two days I may have spent 10 minutes with like 10
different people.<

LOL, sounds familiar.

Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway.  It can be a
real a turnoff when you don’t know the person.<

You handled it in very adult-like fashion Sean.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg

I was a little peeved by sonnygee’s post, until I realized that he probably
has no idea what a junkie’s day can be like.  I was brought to the
aforementioned white supremacists by dope dealing middleman.  I bought the
shit and left them.  Total interaction: five minuets.  Next day came thing.
I was new in the city, so I did not want to get ripped off.  But I quickly
found people over all the city willing to help me spend my cash, so in two
days I may have spent 10 minutes with like 10 different people.

On the third day, I decided to do my shot and hang for a few minutes.  The
guy stared doing his white supremacist crap, and I got the hell out of
there.  Actually I decided to come home.  Kind of a last straw.

Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway.  It can be a
real a turnoff when you don’t know the person.  So keep your warm fuzzies
sonny!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 5:47:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know the specifics with gboy and the people he refers to but in his defense, he is quite correct about criticizm on this forum. One of the crucial aspects of life is accepting life on it’s terms and not always on yours. Criticizm and negativity exist and should exist! People on this forum have no problem criticizing ‘Bush’ and his socio-political philosophy but if someone wishes to criticize a philosophy or person in this forum, people get way too sensitive about it and freak out!. There are many ways to learn in life. Believe it or not being corrected or criticized are two very effective methods if you just put away the fragile ego!

Julian

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 1:34:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t see how it could be worse then being a very
obnoxious kid who has never accomplished or done
anything, who spends a lot of time writing angry
message to the ibogaine list for no reason other then
feeling dissed out at some party where robert altman
ignored you 😉

Carla B

— gboy@hush.com wrote:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I would say something but I’m no lot allowed
to mention the names howard or patrick unless
it is a post full of something positive.

Ill ask a question instead is that still
allowed or will someone threatne to cut off
my source of something?

patrick, your a amazing writer dog, without
any sarcasm or dissing you, you are really
good. its too bad your not that good at being
a person. my question is in reading the
mindvox akashic records a great rise and fall
story, what’s it feel like to go from having
everything, props money and having magazines
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street?

.g

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:34:42 -0700 Vector Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com>

wrote:
Yeh that Patrick Kroupa guy is a a wicked writer, I
think people
have
mentioned that 100000000 times. Considering he
wrote that when was
was
21 or 22 and it went into wired and made the whole
world take note,
you
would think that he’d finish his novel because he’s
going to own.

Wherever that patrick kroupa person is, he should
hurry up and finish
his book already because I want to read it 🙂

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen Mindvox
in a while.
Just
spent
an hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick
Kroupa.  Some really
find writing. Guess I will go to sleep now…the
history of Mindvox
has
put me into an alpha state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at
https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkFGepAACgkQxuwtmNNEJvQEpwCghlwKAcennavOaeX9Ov2suntLr5QA
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From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] hi patrick Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 12:58:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I would say something but I’m no lot allowed
to mention the names howard or patrick unless
it is a post full of something positive.

Ill ask a question instead is that still
allowed or will someone threatne to cut off
my source of something?

patrick, your a amazing writer dog, without
any sarcasm or dissing you, you are really
good. its too bad your not that good at being
a person. my question is in reading the
mindvox akashic records a great rise and fall
story, what’s it feel like to go from having
everything, props money and having magazines
write up how your the next jim morrison, to
shooting it all up and being a junkie living
on the street?

.g

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:34:42 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>

wrote:
Yeh that Patrick Kroupa guy is a a wicked writer, I think people
have
mentioned that 100000000 times. Considering he wrote that when was
was
21 or 22 and it went into wired and made the whole world take note,
you
would think that he’d finish his novel because he’s going to own.

Wherever that patrick kroupa person is, he should hurry up and finish
his book already because I want to read it 🙂

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen Mindvox in a while.
Just
spent
an hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick Kroupa.  Some really
find writing. Guess I will go to sleep now…the history of Mindvox
has
put me into an alpha state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.4

wkYEARECAAYFAkFGepAACgkQxuwtmNNEJvQEpwCghlwKAcennavOaeX9Ov2suntLr5QA
n0LS9l8FzQiy7ayEBuw6Yvh6MPvN
=rgsw
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OFF_TOPIK_Visuals
Date: September 14, 2004 at 12:34:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kinda cool:

http://chaosdancer.egoplex.com/deck/chakras.html

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 12:34:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeh that Patrick Kroupa guy is a a wicked writer, I think people have
mentioned that 100000000 times. Considering he wrote that when was was
21 or 22 and it went into wired and made the whole world take note, you
would think that he’d finish his novel because he’s going to own.

Wherever that patrick kroupa person is, he should hurry up and finish
his book already because I want to read it 🙂

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen Mindvox in a while.  Just
spent
an hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick Kroupa.  Some really
find writing. Guess I will go to sleep now…the history of Mindvox
has
put me into an alpha state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] slow night on the list
Date: September 14, 2004 at 12:11:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Really slow here…slowest I have seen Mindvox in a while.  Just spent an hour reading “Voices in My Head “by Patrick Kroupa.  Some really find writing. Guess I will go to sleep now…the history of Mindvox has put me into an alpha state. Rest should follow.

Peace,
Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 13, 2004 at 9:00:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some of them are just such exceptionally cruel people!  Like when they know you’re so sick and desperate and still keep you waiting, then hand over a bag to you as you’re nearly crying with gratitude.  You hand over the tenner you’ve spent all day scraping together (and they won’t let you off even 20p).  You crawl home (the only thing keeping you going is knowing you have that bag in your hand), get your works out and open up the bag… only to find they’ve sold you a bit of citric! 🙁
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

Dave the things you have stated about dealers is true. This is where they might be considered fucked up people. After handing over hundreds or even thousands of dollars, they won’t front you a small rock. Being greedy and selfish? Yes!! But the gay shit? The poison that kills like strycchmime? Come on! Yeah there’s garbage in some of this shit but not poison! These people are fucked up by nature due to their being parasites. They see a demand for something and become a supplier making their owb rukes as time goes by and your situation or needs change. EVIL? I don’t think so. Fucked up people

Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] off topic (sort of) A junkie’s day: a respnce to sonnyg
Date: September 13, 2004 at 8:33:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was a little peeved by sonnygee’s post, until I realized that he probably has no idea what a junkie’s day can be like.  I was brought to the aforementioned white supremacists by dope dealing middleman.  I bought the shit and left them.  Total interaction: five minuets.  Next day came thing.  I was new in the city, so I did not want to get ripped off.  But I quickly found people over all the city willing to help me spend my cash, so in two days I may have spent 10 minutes with like 10 different people.

On the third day, I decided to do my shot and hang for a few minutes.  The guy stared doing his white supremacist crap, and I got the hell out of there.  Actually I decided to come home.  Kind of a last straw.

Anywise, I don’t expect nobody to warm and fuzzy to me anyway.  It can be a real a turnoff when you don’t know the person.  So keep your warm fuzzies sonny!

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 8:19:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

They didn’t start the white power crap until about two days after I met them.  Then I got out of there.  Unfortunately there is alot of recruiting going on in prison.. When they get out they figure every white gut they get high with is like them,,,so they don’t even bring it up.  I caught on when this dude stated doing a white power rap song..I recognized it right away form a New York Times piece on white supremacist.

These are the people that looking for heroin in a new city brought me too.  I have been a life long progressive, a queer..everything they hate.  What they stand for is everything I hate.  They had knives, I did not.  I thought it best just to cut and run.

Sean

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 7:25:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didn’t know they were white >supremacist

About 3 minutes of conversation and it’s obvious what these sub-humans are about, you must be deaf or blind – I see no reason to be freindly and warm to anything that helps these fucking scum. Sjg
>From: UUSEAN@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10

>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:57:04 EDT

>

>

>hi Preston,

>

>Really good stiff.  I know this is a book I would buy.  I like the real deal,

>not those predictable addict stories that come out all the time.

>

>BTW: I was hanging with neo nazis in San Francisco this spring, doing various

>substances with them that I now abstain from.  I didn’t know they were white

>supremacist, they didn’t know I was gay.  I ran like hell when I figured it

>out.  All the way back to Jersey actually.:)

>

>sean

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 6:57:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Preston,

Really good stiff.  I know this is a book I would buy.  I like the real deal, not those predictable addict stories that come out all the time.

BTW: I was hanging with neo nazis in San Francisco this spring, doing various substances with them that I now abstain from.  I didn’t know they were white supremacist, they didn’t know I was gay.  I ran like hell when I figured it out.  All the way back to Jersey actually.:)

sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: the new “Target America” Museum – at 1 Times Square
Date: September 13, 2004 at 6:26:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was just told that Meliotonin would be good on the gums. – feel better and don’t get high. -m.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

don’t call me I’m not answering, whoever might wanna call. my tooth feels
like gozilla is ripping apart my face. It felt fine when I woke up this
morning and not wanting to go subject myself to yet more tooth surgery so
soon as the last (extremely painful surgery in my face), but now I’m paying
for my procrastination with agonizing, “I wanna go get high damnit” like
pain.
ooooowwwwwwww.
guess I HAVE to go get it taken out tomorrow.
I hate dentistry too.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VALERIE VANDE PANNE
To: psmith@drcnet.org ; wishnia@rcn.com ; ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: the new “Target America” Museum – at 1 Times Square

Hey Guys,

The DEA is honoring September 11 and the links between drugs and terror with
a special, free, open-to-the-public, museum in the heart of Times Square.
The Target America Museum features rubble from the WTC and Pentagon
buildings, as well as recreated meth labs and an Afghani poppy processing
room. Bonus, it even has a special exhibit on money laundering.

The grand opening and dedication (with Rudy Giuliani) is tomorrow morning at
10 AM. My fellow New Yorkers, care to check it out?

http://www.dea.gov/deamuseum/website/index.html

God Bless America,

~~~~~~~Valerie

Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

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http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 5:44:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In chapter 11, Preston lives in the river and feeds on algae and pebbles whilst avoiding the deadly mesmerizing Sycophants……horror and intrigue on a scale so terrible ………….. !!!!!!!

>From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10

>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:49:50 EDT

>

>love chapter 10 Preston!

>Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: the new “Target America” Museum – at 1 Times Square
Date: September 13, 2004 at 5:10:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

don’t call me I’m not answering, whoever might wanna call. my tooth feels
like gozilla is ripping apart my face. It felt fine when I woke up this
morning and not wanting to go subject myself to yet more tooth surgery so
soon as the last (extremely painful surgery in my face), but now I’m paying
for my procrastination with agonizing, “I wanna go get high damnit” like
pain.
ooooowwwwwwww.
guess I HAVE to go get it taken out tomorrow.
I hate dentistry too.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: VALERIE VANDE PANNE
To: psmith@drcnet.org ; wishnia@rcn.com ; ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: the new “Target America” Museum – at 1 Times Square

Hey Guys,

The DEA is honoring September 11 and the links between drugs and terror with
a special, free, open-to-the-public, museum in the heart of Times Square.
The Target America Museum features rubble from the WTC and Pentagon
buildings, as well as recreated meth labs and an Afghani poppy processing
room. Bonus, it even has a special exhibit on money laundering.

The grand opening and dedication (with Rudy Giuliani) is tomorrow morning at
10 AM. My fellow New Yorkers, care to check it out?

http://www.dea.gov/deamuseum/website/index.html

God Bless America,

~~~~~~~Valerie

Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 4:49:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

love chapter 10 Preston!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance still needed
Date: September 13, 2004 at 12:08:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

We have received some generous contributions sent to the Dora Weiner
Foundation to allow me to present at the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference and to
produce a brochure of presenter material to be made available to participants
and for those persons who have provided contributions.

That brings me to the issue of this email: We are still short of a desired
$1,500.00 to allow us to meet needs for participation in the conference and the
printing of the brochure.  If you have already made a donation towards our
participation in the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference thanks and please
hold any additional gifts for our next project.

If you have not made a donation to the Dora Weiner Foundation for our
participation in the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference, please do so now and
thanks on that. Donations will be well appreciated. Donors will be acknowledged
in the Ibogaine Round Table Brochure produced for the conference.

If you wish to remain anonymous please advise and we will meet your need for
anonymity and not include your name in the acknowledgment section of the
Brochure.

Donations may be by check or money should be made payable to DORA WEINER
FOUNDATION and sent to the following address:

Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA

If you would like to discuss the matter you can call, 718 442-2754.

The Dora Weiner Foundation is a 501c(3) tax exempt organization and your
donations are tax deductible.

If you are sending donations from outside the US please send checks or money
orders in US dollars drawn on US banks.

Any assistance appreciated.

Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island. NY 10301
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 4422-2957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] re: current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 10:08:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oops, I sent the “current chapter 10” to the wrong address. Sorry all.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] current chapter 10
Date: September 13, 2004 at 10:07:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chapter 10-
Central Park Schizo
One afternoon as a young teen, I’d caught a movie on the Saturday matinee on
tv called “The Prince of Central Park.” The main character is this kid who
runs away from home in Manhattan, and ends up living in a tree house he
finds in Central Park. The adventure of this had always appealed to me, and
I never have forgotten this film. Now that I find myself in need of a change
in locale, it occurs to me that I should at least take a look at the park. I
do have time to kill and nowhere in particular to go, escaping the skinheads
in the Lower East Side the only priority in my life right now, especially
since I copped my day’s supply of heroin and coke before hitting the subway.
Getting off the train at the 72nd and Broadway, I head across 72nd after
asking directions from a newspaper vender outside the station. I’m surprised
at what I see as I walk. Having spent the fist two months or so I’ve been in
NYC down in LES, I’m not used to such upscale buildings and shops. I
certainly didn’t expect to see these around Central Park, as my only other
impression of the park ’til now has been from seeing another film, “The
Warriors,” about vicious street gangs battling their way across the city
after a riot in Central Park. Seeing all the glitzy shops, the gold braided
doormen outside towering apartment buildings, and the fancy restaurants
makes me wonder if this really was such a good idea after all. It doesn’t
look like homeless types will be all that welcome around here.
Reaching Central Park West, I see the Dakota Apartments looming over the
park and intersection, immediately recognizing the driveway where one of my
long-time heroes, John Lennon, was assassinated. I stop and pay my respects
before crossing the street into the park.
I spend the last hours of sunlight wandering the park, trying to figure out
what I’m going to do. My stomach beings to complain so I head back out of
the park and up 72nd a couple of blocks to a Timothy’s Coffee I spotted
walking to the park earlier in the day. I ask if they have any day-old bread
they might be tossing out. Not only do they have bread, but I walk away with
a garbage bag full of sandwiches, pastries, and a milk jug of hot coffee
too.
I head back towards the park, stopping to sit on a nice clean sofa someone
in one of the expensive apartment buildings has thrown away. My stomach
full, I duck into a stairwell just behind the sofa and get straight, take a
seat back on the sofa, stretch out and go to sleep.
“What are you doing man? You’re gonna get rousted if you sleep there for
sure.” A voice says, pulling me from a restless sleep. Two guys about my own
age are standing looking down at me, both with similar bags to mine over
their shoulders and a rough, street bound appearance to them. “You can’t
sleep out here, you’re gonna get arrested. Come with us into the park, we
know a good spot to sleep. I’m Winston and this is Jay.”
“Hey sure, thanks for the word,” I tell him, climbing to my feet. “You guys
hungry? I’ve got way more than I need here if you’d like something to eat or
some coffee.”
“Yeah thanks, but let’s go to the park and eat there.”
I follow them to the 72nd Street entrance. As we enter the park, I feel a
brief fear that they might be leading me into the darkness where they’ll
beat and mug me, but that passes quickly. My eyes take a few moments to
adjust to the moonlight streaming through the trees. I don’t get a really
good look at my surroundings as I follow them blindly past the Imagine
Circle, a memorial to Lennon I remember seeing earlier but which is
invisible now. I’m putting my trust in these two strangers, but I have a
good feeling about them. They lead me under the canopy of trees, then turn
left into a large field. Walking out from under the trees, I find the
moonlight plenty bright enough to make my way. The trees and shrubs that
form a wall around the field, through which the lights and sounds of the
city are considerably muted, dampened. When the breeze kicks up, shadows
dance and move, casting a thick air of magic about the place. Instead of
feeling scared or nervous, I’m suddenly more at peace than I’ve felt in
ages. Certainly since coming to NYC. Unfortunately, there’s often a calm
before the storm, in this case a brief calm in the midst of repeated, never
ending gales.
Jay and Winston show me the ropes, where to get food and, most importantly
to me, where I can score good dope and coke. They also turn me on to the
potential for making loads of quick, easy cash in Central Park.
There’s a small army of people who sleep in and around Strawberry Fields,
the field where they took me that first night, the place I call home for the
next few months. Among these people there’s a small group which makes their
money by selling fake drugs to the unwary vics to come seeking one substance
or another in the park, specifically to Sheep’s Meadow. Somehow the Meadow
gained a reputation as a place to score good LSD at some point, but now it’s
mainly all fake. There are a few who do sell legit drugs, but to get to them
the vics have to pass through the swarms of con artists who aggressively
hawk their wares so they can get straight.
I find that I am very good at this. I spend a week or so selling small
amounts to people, until I realize I can sell whole sheets of a hundred hits
just as well as I can individual hits. By going to a print shop and spending
nine cents per page of orange construction paper, and investing a dollar
nineteen on a seam tracer, a small sewing tool consisting of a plastic
handle and a metal toothed wheel, I can make sheets of blank paper that look
just like the real thing. There are times when the vics will refuse to
purchase anything without sampling my wares first, so I discover to my
surprise that apparently the orange dye lends a similar taste to that of
blotter acid to my paper. “Tangerines, the cleanest, purest, more
trippingest acid you’ll find in NYC,” I’ll tell the vics, “certainly better
than anything in this park. Keeps you going for at least eight to ten hours,
full on hallucinating. This shit is the real deal.” More than once I end up
sitting with this or that vic after giving them a sample hit, convincing
them that they not only taste the LSD on the paper but that they feel it
coming on. As soon as I hear that, I get the money and split. The power of
suggestion is an awesome thing. I never fail to make at least a hundred
bucks a day while living in the park, often clearing a hell of a lot more.
In one seven day span, I clear over $500 every day. What with me shooting up
all day and night, 24-7, going days on end without sleep or much food, it’s
easy for me to convince the vics that I’m tripping on my acid, or in some
cases mushrooms or ecstasy, also both fake (shitake mushrooms and Niacin
caps pass for each respectively).
So I manage to build my habit up, way out of proportion to any sort of sane
manageable levels. Spending nearly every penny I make on cocaine and heroin,
trying to kill all feelings and emotions, not to mention physical pains,
takes a toll on me in ways I never expected. Over time I’ve gotten high with
a wide assortment of different types of people- rich, poor, black, white,
educated and not- and some of those have been really fucked up. Since living
in the park, I’ve seen an entirely new class of fucked up people, who when
they shoot cocaine instantly begin to act genuinely crazy, tearing off all
their clothes, peering out windows to be sure no one is coming to attack,
locking the door and piling every bit of furniture in the room in front of
the door to block access to any invaders. Each time this has happens, I take
it in stride, realizing this isn’t right but never considering that I too
run the risk of facing the very same demons. I’ve ingested every kind of
hallucinatory drug I could get my hands on over the years- mushrooms, acid,
synthetic mescaline and more. I think I know what tripping and hallucinating
are all about. But I really have no idea, other than for that time I lost my
head and bashed that hooker chic with a rock in the Lower East Side, until
finally, one day, I experience full on cocaine psychosis, something that
soon becomes normal operating procedure for me when getting high.
I score some coke and dope on warm sunny afternoon, and take them to the
old, dry fountain near both Sheep’s Meadow and Strawberry Field. Taking a
seat on the far side of the fountain on a wall at the bottom of a
kudzu-covered hill, I take out all my paraphernalia, all the tool of my
trade and set to work preparing a speedball. I am a professional, able to
get every prepared very quickly and without much fuss, loving nothing more
than to get off in a very public space, right out in the open, which never
fails to add a zing to the rush of my drugs each time I do it and get away
with it. As with so much else, if I’m blatant and don’t act as though I’m up
to something wrong, no one every notices. Not to this date anyway. I watch
continuously to be sure no one is creeping up on me or taking notice in any
way, but spot no one other than two or three people sitting having a picnic
under a small tress on the grass a good 40 or 50 yards away.
I have the needle in my arm in less than 2 minutes, but right as I’m pushing
in the plunger, pushing the generous speedball into my vein, I distinctly
hear a voice from behind the bushes at the top of the hill behind me.
“Ok boy, let’s get him!” Then comes the sound of many running feet pounding
the ground as though one of the squads of undercover cops who patrol the
park are racing down the hill to arrest me.
“Holy shit!” I exclaim aloud as I panic. The drugs coursing through my
system, combined with the terror I feel, are driving my senses haywire. I
can’t hear very well over the pounding of my heart which fills my ears with
the sound I imagine a strobe light might make if it made sound rather than
light. Leaping to my feet, I chuck my works and what drugs I still hold in
my hand into the kudzu behind me, then turn and walk towards the fountain,
away from the hill, forcing myself to walk slowly and calmly, pretending I
don’t hear the approaching gung-ho officers, not wanting to give the cops an
excuse to tackle me on the hard paving stones making up the plaza around the
fountain.
Reaching the edge of the fountain, I finally build up the nerve to turn and
watch the approaching cops, but am staggered to see no one there. No running
cops and the sounds I’ve been hearing of their approach suddenly cease as I
turn around. Cocaine can screw up my hearing and vision, making it difficult
to focus at times, but I’m having trouble believing I imagined that squad of
cops, even if I hadn’t actually seen them coming only heard them.
I look around to see if anyone else is watching the cops, or me, but there’s
no one in sight, not even the people I spotted just moments before having
their picnic. Maybe they’d seen me leap up and act bizarre and are now
alerting the authorities that there’s some nutjob having a freak out by the
fountain. Searching wildly for any signs of other approaching threats, I
spot someone watching me, hiding behind a skinny tree trunk out in the field
near the fountain, but I can’t make out their features. I can tell they’re
watching me though, and now I hear creepy laughter from that direction. “Are
they laughing at me?” I wonder. I have to find out.
Forgetting about the now vanished police, I walk towards the tree, but
before I reach it the person has moved, somehow without my noticing, into a
clump of bushes that line the approach to the fountain. I now start catching
glimpses of two or three people hiding inside the bushes, though again only
as silhouettes and shadows. Thinking perhaps they want to lure me closer so
they can grab me and beat me up, I begin addressing them in conciliatory
tones.
“Who’s there?” I ask, but get no answer other than for some quiet rustling
and more of that weird laughter. I try again in a firmer voice. “Come on out
of there and quit playing games with me!” There’s still no answer, so I look
around for some help. I try to stop one lone guy passing behind me at that
moment on the footpath, but he steps around me, giving me wide berth. Then I
young couple comes up the path and I step out in front of them.
“Excuse me, can you tell me if you see anyone in these bushes please?” As
soon as begin talking I realize how fucked up I am and how bizarre my
question must sound to these two very clean, very normal looking lovers. Now
I try to play it off with an explanation of my behavior. “See, I was hanging
out with friends smoking some really good pot, for the first time in a long
time, and it really got me high, and now they’ve run off and are playing
games with me, and.” They run away before I can finish babbling my lame
excuses to them. I glance down at the arm the girl had been staring at
intently while I spoke, to find that in my panic I’d forgotten to clean off
my arm, so now long rivulets of blood have run down my forearm and begun to
dry in long, crusty stream from my elbow to my wrist. Pulling down my
sleeve, I’m over overcome by paranoia and a brand new fear sets in.
“They must be running to tell the cops on me,” I hear a clear voice in my
head say to me, “and the police are probably coming to arrest you right
now.” This gives me the courage to bolt past the bushes where the
snickering shadows may or may not be waiting to pounce, heading towards
Sheep’s Meadow, seeing undercover cops everywhere I look, circling, talking
into their collars into their secret police radios, making special police
hand signals to one another, getting ready to snatch me and put me away. I
wander in sheer terror for some minutes, until I run into Jay, one of the
two guys who first brought me to the park. Jay recognizes what’s happening
right away, as soon as I start pointing out joggers all the way on the other
side of the Meadow.
“See Jay, those joggers? They’re cops!” Trying not to laugh out loud at me,
Jay stays with me, reassuring me every time I begin to lose control and want
to run screaming in fear. He walks me out of the park to Central Park East,
where we sit on one of the benches that line the other sidewalk around the
park. We sit and wait there until the fear passes and the craziness goes
away.
I’ve been completely, unabashedly terrified, like never before in my entire
life. If Jay hadn’t come along when he did I don’t know what would have
happened to me. Everything I’d been seeing and hearing and seemed one
hundred percent real to me. One the one hand I’d known I was hallucinating,
but hadn’t been able to stop and rationalize what was happening. I’d been
completely at the mercy of my panic.
As horrifying as this experience has been, as soon as the fear fades and I
regain control of my senses, no longer seeing cops everywhere sneaking about
preparing to put me away or worse, I turn to Jay.
“Hey man, I’ve still got some drugs left. Wanna go do a speedball?” Jay
gladly accepts, so we make our way back through the park to Strawberry
Fields, where we know we can get high in peace.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 13, 2004 at 8:45:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie! I swear I was just about to write you privately to see if everything is OK. It seemed like I hadn’t heard from you in a bit. Is everything OK with you? Your family cool? I hope so. I’ll write you off line anyway!

Sincerely,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 13, 2004 at 8:41:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey n, you said everything that needs to be said. If you really want to end an addiction, all these various treatments can be successful and wonderful. The problem is if you don’t really want it, nothing in the world will ever work! Man keep up your shit! You are one cool dude, man. Very brave.

Sincerely,

Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] last test
Date: September 13, 2004 at 12:04:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 12, 2004 at 11:14:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 12, 2004 at 5:24:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey N.

Each day you will be getting a little better, the worst is over.
You made it up until now and you are going to get where you want to get.
It is you free choice now, I mean FREE choice, where you can go where you
like to go without thinking I need to do something before and have something
for after.

All the best.

Sara

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 12, 2004 at 4:55:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am AMAZED!! I am so proud for you! You hang in there! Hot showers help and LOTS of sleep!
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This it, Preston
Date: September 12, 2004 at 2:53:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston, sorry I missed the b-day but I felt a real need to get out of the city and take some time to just chill and breath by myself. Last night was perfect. Sat by this little pond and listened to music and just sat with my thoughts and tried to decided on a plan.
As we talked about yesterday, when you spend so many years feeling trapped with no options and then all of a sudden thanks to this gift our options all of a sudden feel limitless soemtimes we become very confused. Like, “where do I start” and “which of these many plans do I go with?” All of that can be very taxing on a mind that has already gone though such profound change. ANyway wish I could report that I figured it all out last night, but thats obviously not the way it goes. I did however feel a lot clearer and was able to really think about these things instead of running with these scattered thoughts while I’m on the go. Hope it was a great time and I look forward to speaking with you later. Happy b-day. -M.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/12/04 12:03:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

So what is the basis for opposition in the gay/AIDS community to utilizing ibo to deal with their crystal problem?

Hi Dana,

Sean here. (Almost got to meet you yesterday, but timing was off.) As far as the gay community, as a member of said group, I suppose (queer man), I was never told about ibogaine. I really doubt this was from opposition either, I don’t think groups like GMHC are really aware of it either.

I sometimes think that being a gay man in this culture has helped make me more open to new ideas and possibilities than not.  Hence, perhaps, some of openness to ibogaine.  I think that ibogaine being introduced to the gay community is a great idea. The community center on 13 street (LGBT) is not all that expensive, I don’t believe. I would be glad to help out in planning some sort of workshop or presentation.

BTW Anyway know the story about ibo and crystal? (or Tina) as most gay guys refer to it.:)

Sean
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 2:42:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just wanted to clarify. 20x Salvia can be bought on the Internet but if you meant 20mil/kg of Ibogaine it can not be purchased legally within the united states.
If you are in any country other than US Switzerland, or Belgium you can order it on ethnogarden but make sure you have someone sit with you who knows what there doing and maybe go with a lower therapeutic dose. Maybe 15 mg/kg.
Sorry if I seemed abrupt I was running out when I got the message.
If you are in the US then you probably know where there is a will there is a way and in almost every major city now there is a way. Good luck -M.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jasen,

No, I did my treatment in New Jersey USA.  I have just really enjoyed Sara’s posts and would think from reading them that she would be a find person to dose with, if you are looking anywhere in the world as you are.

Money permitting, I hope to be calling her in the next couple of years myself.

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 12, 2004 at 2:11:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dear list,
thank you so much for the positive support.  when i can i roll out of bed
and hop on my laptop to check the list.  the responses i get from each of
you is so incredible heartfelt it makes the pain seem a little more
endurable.
day 12, no dope.  my receptors are screaming for something anything but i
know i can keep it up.  this list and the people on it have a special
place in my heart and give much credit to the support of the list for my
success thus far for keeping clean.

12 days, i never thought possible.

thank you all
n

ps – for anyone out there who doesnt think its possible, it can be done.
all the misery of being an addict can be eradicated, you just really
really want to have it.  that is what it comes down to.  you have to want
it more then anything

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This it, Preston
Date: September 12, 2004 at 1:53:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/12/04 12:03:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

So what is the basis for opposition in the gay/AIDS community to utilizing ibo to deal with their crystal problem?

Hi Dana,

Sean here. (Almost got to meet you yesterday, but timing was off.) As far as the gay community, as a member of said group, I suppose (queer man), I was never told about ibogaine. I really doubt this was from opposition either, I don’t think groups like GMHC are really aware of it either.

I sometimes think that being a gay man in this culture has helped make me more open to new ideas and possibilities than not.  Hence, perhaps, some of openness to ibogaine.  I think that ibogaine being introduced to the gay community is a great idea. The community center on 13 street (LGBT) is not all that expensive, I don’t believe. I would be glad to help out in planning some sort of workshop or presentation.

BTW Anyway know the story about ibo and crystal? (or Tina) as most gay guys refer to it.:)

Sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 1:28:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mark and Jasen,

My preference would be not to add naltrexone to ibogaine therapy though I
believe it has been reported that mash does in some cases.  Possibly, some of the
treatment centers associated with her in florida do as well.  I prefer the
methods of Sara, the iboga therapy house and the ibogaine association of
providing secondary doses or booster doses of ibogaine.  However, one shoe does not
fit all.

As to Jasen’s concern for residual withdrawal, in my experience diarrhea was
the easiest to treat with simple OTC drug store remedies.  Multiple dosing
with ibogaine appears to be effective as do adjunct therapies for many withdrawal
signs.  So go to a provider who will multiple dose you over a periods of a
few weeks.  That should give you a level of comfort in being treated.  And, of
course, most important, let us know what happens.  Sara tends to use more
entheogenic/botanical medications while adjunct to ibogaine, the ibogaine
association tends towards vitamin, nutritional and medication responses.  I think you
will find your fear of withdrawal far greater than any withdrawal you suffer
but, you could be that one patient in a thousand or more who may have a hard
time (theoretically).

Just on another thought in the 1960s some iboganauts would generally
self-administer barbiturates after 30 or more hours, whenever they felt too exhausted.
The sedation was stronger than those of benzodizepines and people seemed to
respond well to barbiturate sedation.  Please note however, that in 1960s
people were very experienced with barbiturates.  KNOW YOUR DRUGS.

If you feel at risk a month out and want to take naltrexone then do so but,
be aware of the danger of trying to override naltrexone with opiates to get
high as there have been fatalities related to that act.  As if there aren’t
fatalities related to everything except possibly smoking marijuana.  Except in
Swedish perception as they view any fatality in which the deceased in positive for
marijuana as a marijuana related death.  You are shot during a robbery and
positive for marijuana and that is in some Swedish studies considered a
marijuana related fatality.  I would love to see their coffee related fatality study.

Howard

In a message dated 9/12/04 10:24:01 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

Howard? In my humble opinion, after Iboga taking a man made opiate antagonist
would be the last thing you’d want to put in your system. But that’s just
me.
Just wanted to tell you all that I’m certainly reevaluating but I almost
feel better in many ways than I did before that ‘scare’. Thank God I’m
still on the other side of this.
Love -M.

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hello Howard and list,

Can anyone tell me,can you,after detoxing with Ibogaine,say…1 month later
take naltrexone with out the naltrexone bringing on some withdrawel residual?

Do you think,that by taking Naltrexone it would make you feel any different?I
don’t mean high,just uncomfortable.
Would it interfere with the Ibogaine?

Also has anyone that has detoxed with Ibogaine whilst on Methadone(I have
said Meth and done in the past,but realised
that Meth,of course,also stands for speed,which is not my thing,so I will
say done in the future) had any withdrawels after two weeks?

I understand that for people on the done it takes longer than if using
heroin and it takes away 80 to 100% of all withdrawels,however for
those that have had residual withdrawels, are there any signs of withdrawel
after 2 weeks?

I have read from people on this list that have been through the Ibogaine
treatment and in the information supllied on Ibogaine that
for most people the effect of Ibogaine lasts for approx’ 1 month. After
this 1 month or when the Ibogaine is mostly gone from your system
do you feel any withdrawels,..hot and cold chills,..so on? I know some
people have still had some diahrea after 1 month,
that doesn’t worry me. I know I have asked a lot of questions and some
of these have been spoken about before.

I have started putting things into place to be able to do this. Another
2 to 3 weeks….,well,possibly 4.Still have to decide where
to go.I will speak to some of the providers on the phone when everything
is in place.

Sean,was that you who told me you did your treatment with Sara?

With smiles.
Jasen. (Aus)

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 1:22:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

Crack is ready made base.  I have heard of some interesting additives, but I don’t want start the whole bad dealer thing up again..:)  That would be evil.

Sean

PS Heroin is never used in crack, I don’t believe. I have heard Raid, a canned insecticide.  Smoked crack for 20 years. Fortunate did not kill this bug dead.:)

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 1:13:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

No, I did my treatment in New Jersey USA.  I have just really enjoyed Sara’s posts and would think from reading them that she would be a find person to dose with, if you are looking anywhere in the world as you are.

Money permitting, I hope to be calling her in the next couple of years myself.

Sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This it, Preston
Date: September 12, 2004 at 12:58:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

I don’t know the answer to your question “what is the basis for opposition in
the gay/AIDS community to utilizing ibo to deal with their crystal problem”
but, you have been the lead persons in many political actions to and from the
gay community that have benefited ibogaine.  Your activities in ACTUP were
important for ibogaine.  Getting ibogaine into the gay methamphetamine situation
may require training gay providers to control and administer ibogaine.  I think
when the gay community is practically aware (familiar with dosing) of
ibogaine they will use it.  Ibogaine is returning a gift to the gay community for
those among them who supported of ibogaine in the past.

Maybe posters should go up saying, IBOGAINE: A LOVING HUMANE ANSWER TO
CRYSTAL METH.

Howard

In a message dated 9/12/04 11:03:43 AM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< So what is the basis for opposition in the gay/AIDS community to
utilizing ibo to deal with their crystal problem?

No Man Is a Crystal Meth User Unto Himself

August 29, 2004
By FRANK OWEN

BOBBY DARNELL, a 34-year-old Texan who has lived in New
York since 1996, does not fit the stereotype of a club drug
user. For six years, he was an administrator for nonprofit
groups, and he has sung in the New York City Gay Men’s
Chorus since 1998. “The chorus is mostly people from small
towns, not club kids or fashion people,” Mr. Darnell said.
“That’s sort of what attracted me to it.”

But four years ago he began casually exploring the club
scene and tried crystal meth, the street version of the
powerful stimulant methamphetamine, for the first time.
After he lost a job to cutbacks in 2001 and found himself
at home with nothing to do but look for work, he began to
spend long hours on the Internet, and fell into a pattern
of casual sexual encounters that sometimes included crystal
meth, which intensifies sexual drive and lowers
inhibitions.

“I never did it for days and days at a time, just for a
couple of days every two or three weeks,” Mr. Darnell said.
It took a long time for him to recognize that he had a
problem. But by then, he had driven away all his old
friends. “I would cancel things, and then people just
stopped calling after a while. Everyone in New York is so
busy, it’s very easy for someone to disappear.”

Eventually Mr. Darnell was hospitalized. Only his
connection with members of the chorus pulled him back from
the brink. “There was one older gentleman,” he said, “who
would just come and hold my hand all day during those first
couple of weeks” as he drifted in and out of consciousness.

Stories like Mr. Darnell’s have become increasingly common
as crystal meth has spread beyond New York’s gay club
culture to a wider cross section of gay men, especially
young ones. The drug, which can be sniffed as a powder,
smoked in crystalline shards or dissolved in water and
injected, is considered just as addictive as crack cocaine.
It is blamed for a host of problems, ruining its users’
health, robbing them of their jobs and sometimes driving
them to mental illness, suicide or death by overdose. But
its effects go well beyond the wreckage of individual
lives, creating a ripple effect in the larger social world
of gay men in the city. Long used by blue-collar Americans
as an endurance enhancer and a recreational drug, crystal
meth first became popular in gay dance clubs in New York in
the mid- to late 90’s, having migrated east from the gay
scenes in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Honolulu. But in
the last three or four years, its use here has grown
enormously.

Mr. Darnell, who has pulled his life together and is now
working as a receptionist, said four or five other chorus
members had started experimenting with the drug around the
same time he did. “One by one these people wouldn’t be
dancing anymore, one by one they would lose their jobs, one
by one they wouldn’t be at rehearsal anymore,” he said.

Many men say they have lost friendships or romantic
relationships to crystal meth, and many who don’t use it
keep their distance adamantly from those who do. The rift
is apparent on Web sites and in chat rooms where men
advertise for romantic or sex partners, often using coded
references like “PNP” (for “party and play,” meaning drugs
with sex) or “No PNP,” “chem friendly” or “absolutely no
tweakers” (a reference to people strung out on the drug).

Crystal meth “turns people into antisocial zombies,” said
Trip Zanetis, 23, a nightclub publicist who said he hates
what it is doing to his social world. “It makes people
hostile and delusional. The vibe is much more negative and
colder than in the past, thanks to this drug.”

As Max Wixom, 26, a theatrical publicist and production
designer, put it, “Even the way gay men look at each other
is different.”

“In 1996, when I first arrived in New York and started
going out, you could easily get to know people,” Mr. Wixom
said. “It felt like a community or a brotherhood.” But with
the rise of crystal meth, he said, gay night life has
turned “more predatory and dehumanized.”

Dr. Steven Lee, a New York psychiatrist who specializes in
treating crystal meth addicts, said there is now “a much
harder edge in New York gay clubs than in the past.” This
change, he said, is largely because of the drug: in
addition to its sexual and stimulant effects, crystal meth
promotes aggression.

“Some of my patients talk about how they feel on crystal
meth as akin to being robots programmed with the sole
purpose of doing more crystal and having more sex,” Dr. Lee
said. The drug also causes paranoia in regular users, and
can eventually lead to psychotic episodes.

Gay Men’s Health Crisis, founded in the 1980’s to help
people with AIDS, said that two years ago, it received very
few hot line calls related to crystal meth, but that it now
gets about five a day. Fewer than half the new clients in
its drug counseling program reported crystal meth use as
their main drug problem three years ago; this year the
figure is 80 percent.

Crystal Meth Anonymous, a support and recovery group, began
operating in New York five years ago with one meeting a
week, which was never attended by more than six people,
said Raul M., one of the group’s early members. Now there
are 23 meetings, some attracting crowds of more than 100.
“In the last year we’ve almost doubled in membership,” he
said. “We expect to add new meetings later this year, but
we’re running out of venues.”

A 2003 study by researchers at Hunter College found that
about 20 percent of gay men in New York had tried crystal
meth, and that about half that number had used it in the
three months preceding the study.

John Lee, 24, a graduate of Dartmouth and a research
analyst at a hedge fund company, said the drug is causing
strange behavior in his own social circle. Although he said
he never uses crystal meth and only occasionally goes out
clubbing, several friends – college-educated and middle
class – go dancing and use it almost every weekend.

“They’re constantly irritated, and it affects the way they
relate to other people, but they don’t realize it,” Mr. Lee
said. One Filipino friend frequently gets into fights with
people he imagines are making fun of his accent. “He’ll
scream at them and start shoving them,” Mr. Lee said. “He
thinks it’s racism, but it’s strictly his paranoia.”

It is in New York’s gay club world – where, according to a
recent study by the Center for H.I.V./AIDS Educational
Studies and Training in New York, 62 percent of those who
use any club drugs reported “significant and frequent use”
of crystal meth – that the social effects have been most
strongly felt. Aficionados of the scene say dance clubs
have become sterile environments filled with monotonous
music and detached dancers.

“I’ve been in this business for 25 years, and I’ve seen
four or five different sets of people come and go,” said
John Blair, a longtime party promoter who owns the Chelsea
bar XL and is a co-owner of Avalon (the former Limelight),
where he gives regular Sunday night parties.

“Each group of people goes through a similar experience
with different music and different drugs,” Mr. Blair said.
“But crystal is by far the worst drug I’ve ever seen happen
to night life. It not only takes over people’s lives, but
it really negates what the whole scene is supposed to be
about.”

In fact, the rise in crystal meth use has hurt the club
industry in New York, particularly the big-box clubs famous
for after-hours dance marathons – some gay, some mixed –
that start at 2 or 3 a.m. and often continue until 7 or 8
the following evening. Drug crackdowns by the police on the
clubs Sound Factory in March and Exit last year were at
least partly due to such parties.

And as people become heavier users, they are moving away
from the club scene, becoming increasingly reclusive and
focused on Internet sex liaisons – and, in some cases, on
just maintaining their drug habits. Mr. Darnell, the Gay
Men’s Chorus member, said that after he lost his job in
2001, he barely left his apartment, which became a
nightmarish mess. A neighbor of his in Hell’s Kitchen, who
was also using crystal meth and had also become a shut-in,
allowed his electricity to be shut off and his cats to bear
litter after litter.

Dan Carlson, a founder of an anticrystal-meth organization
called the H.I.V. Forum NYC, said one club promoter
recently offered to help with the group’s work. “I said,
`Great, but what’s in it for you?’ ” Mr. Carlson said. “And
he’s, like, `This Internet stuff is killing my business.’ ”

Mr. Carlson is one of a small but growing number of vocal
crystal-meth opponents, many of them former users
themselves. He started the H.I.V. Forum NYC last July with
Dr. Bruce Kellerhouse, a psychologist, after they became
angry at the news that H.I.V. infections had jumped 18
percent nationwide among gay and bisexual men since 1999 –
an increase that he and others involved in H.I.V.
prevention blame largely on crystal meth, which has been
associated with high rates of unprotected sex. (As yet,
there is no firm scientific data showing conclusively that
crystal meth is behind the rise, but anecdotal evidence
from doctors in New York suggests that the drug plays a
role in anywhere from 50 to 75 percent of new H.I.V. cases
in the city.)

“For many years,” Mr. Carlson said, “crystal has built this
reputation as being glamorous, being fun. Anyone who’s edgy
is doing crystal meth. And if you’re not, you’re not cool –
you’re not part of the `in’ crowd, not part of the scene.”

Last month, the H.I.V. Forum NYC held a public meeting at
the Fashion Institute of Technology that drew 300 people –
doctors, drag queens, city officials, clubbers, law
enforcement officers, recovering addicts – and was led by
John Cameron Mitchell, the director, writer and star of the
film “Hedwig and the Angry Inch.” The discussion featured
personal testimony from audience members and panelists
about the negative impact that crystal meth has had on the
gay world.

The H.I.V. Forum also started an advertising campaign in
June, to coincide with the annual Gay Pride celebration.
The latest ads, displayed on phone booths in Chelsea,
feature a buff young man clad only in briefs, looking at a
computer screen and sucking on a glass crystal-meth pipe
filled with smoke. The caption begins, “Another night on
the A List?” and the tagline says, “Crystal meth: Nothing
to be proud of.”

The ad campaign appeared a few months after a veteran AIDS
activist and H.I.V. Forum member named Peter Staley spent
$6,000 of his own money to put up posters on phone booths
in Chelsea saying: “Huge Sale! Buy crystal, get H.I.V.
free!”

But not everyone approves of such measures. In the May
issue of the gay magazine Genre, a writer who calls himself
Diabolique criticized people like Mr. Staley as “nanny
nelly liberal activists” and accused them of helping spur a
continuing police crackdown on gay night life.

“It combines the worst aspects of over-the-top antidrug
hysteria with the best of `get press at any cost’ 80’s-era
AIDS activism,” Diabolique wrote. “The ads don’t work on
drug-taking hedonists, they work on riling up the news
media, public health and law enforcement officials.”

“There’s a total split in the gay community about this
issue,” Diabolique said in an interview. “Most gay men I
know thought the `Buy crystal, get H.I.V.’ ads were
ridiculous.”

“Crystal meth is a problem,” he said. “It’s the worst drug
problem I’ve seen in all my years of clubbing. But
hysterical antidrug, antisex propaganda does nothing to
solve that problem.”

The editor in chief of Genre, Bill Henning, said he regards
the things that organizations like H.I.V. Forum say as
mainly puritanical propaganda. “It’s great they’re bringing
attention to it, but they’re not reaching the people they
need to reach with all this finger-wagging,” he said. “It’s
the same sort of antisex, antidrug argument that’s been
going on in the gay community for years.”

But John Blair, the party promoter, said the message may be
getting through. The closings of most after-hours parties,
the advertising campaigns and the personal horror stories
about the drug are beginning to have an effect, he said.

“Thank god for G.M.H.C. and the H.I.V. Forum,” he said. “In
the last year, things have started to turn around. Using
crystal is not something you brag about anymore. There’s a
growing stigma against it, especially among the younger
set. As people get more and more information, they realize
the harm it’s doing, not just to users but to the community
as a whole.”


69b0e64c8ed2a6 >>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This it, Preston
Date: September 12, 2004 at 12:58:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This it, Prestonthanks Dana.
I’m outta commission today- had  LONG day yesterday, what with b-day new
tattoo, late partying, lotsa fun, now a raging freakin toothache-meaning (it
looks and feels like) I’ve gotta go get yet ANOTHER freakin’ tooth cut outta
my face this week. Oooooowwwwwch.
Anyway, I’m outta commission right now. This is an semi-automatic reply
telling you and everyone I’m outta the office, or something  like that.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] This it, Preston

So what is the basis for opposition in the gay/AIDS community to utilizing
ibo to deal with their crystal problem?

No Man Is a Crystal Meth User Unto Himself

August 29, 2004
By FRANK OWEN

BOBBY DARNELL, a 34-year-old Texan who has lived in New
York since 1996, does not fit the stereotype of a club drug
user. For six years, he was an administrator for nonprofit
groups, and he has sung in the New York City Gay Men’s
Chorus since 1998. “The chorus is mostly people from small
towns, not club kids or fashion people,” Mr. Darnell said.
“That’s sort of what attracted me to it.”

But four years ago he began casually exploring the club
scene and tried crystal meth, the street version of the
powerful stimulant methamphetamine, for the first time.
After he lost a job to cutbacks in 2001 and found himself
at home with nothing to do but look for work, he began to
spend long hours on the Internet, and fell into a pattern
of casual sexual encounters that sometimes included crystal
meth, which intensifies sexual drive and lowers
inhibitions.

“I never did it for days and days at a time, just for a
couple of days every two or three weeks,” Mr. Darnell said.
It took a long time for him to recognize that he had a
problem. But by then, he had driven away all his old
friends. “I would cancel things, and then people just
stopped calling after a while. Everyone in New York is so
busy, it’s very easy for someone to disappear.”

Eventually Mr. Darnell was hospitalized. Only his
connection with members of the chorus pulled him back from
the brink. “There was one older gentleman,” he said, “who
would just come and hold my hand all day during those first
couple of weeks” as he drifted in and out of consciousness.

Stories like Mr. Darnell’s have become increasingly common
as crystal meth has spread beyond New York’s gay club
culture to a wider cross section of gay men, especially
young ones. The drug, which can be sniffed as a powder,
smoked in crystalline shards or dissolved in water and
injected, is considered just as addictive as crack cocaine.
It is blamed for a host of problems, ruining its users’
health, robbing them of their jobs and sometimes driving
them to mental illness, suicide or death by overdose. But
its effects go well beyond the wreckage of individual
lives, creating a ripple effect in the larger social world
of gay men in the city. Long used by blue-collar Americans
as an endurance enhancer and a recreational drug, crystal
meth first became popular in gay dance clubs in New York in
the mid- to late 90’s, having migrated east from the gay
scenes in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Honolulu. But in
the last three or four years, its use here has grown
enormously.

Mr. Darnell, who has pulled his life together and is now
working as a receptionist, said four or five other chorus
members had started experimenting with the drug around the
same time he did. “One by one these people wouldn’t be
dancing anymore, one by one they would lose their jobs, one
by one they wouldn’t be at rehearsal anymore,” he said.

Many men say they have lost friendships or romantic
relationships to crystal meth, and many who don’t use it
keep their distance adamantly from those who do. The rift
is apparent on Web sites and in chat rooms where men
advertise for romantic or sex partners, often using coded
references like “PNP” (for “party and play,” meaning drugs
with sex) or “No PNP,” “chem friendly” or “absolutely no
tweakers” (a reference to people strung out on the drug).

Crystal meth “turns people into antisocial zombies,” said
Trip Zanetis, 23, a nightclub publicist who said he hates
what it is doing to his social world. “It makes people
hostile and delusional. The vibe is much more negative and
colder than in the past, thanks to this drug.”

As Max Wixom, 26, a theatrical publicist and production
designer, put it, “Even the way gay men look at each other
is different.”

“In 1996, when I first arrived in New York and started
going out, you could easily get to know people,” Mr. Wixom
said. “It felt like a community or a brotherhood.” But with
the rise of crystal meth, he said, gay night life has
turned “more predatory and dehumanized.”

Dr. Steven Lee, a New York psychiatrist who specializes in
treating crystal meth addicts, said there is now “a much
harder edge in New York gay clubs than in the past.” This
change, he said, is largely because of the drug: in
addition to its sexual and stimulant effects, crystal meth
promotes aggression.

“Some of my patients talk about how they feel on crystal
meth as akin to being robots programmed with the sole
purpose of doing more crystal and having more sex,” Dr. Lee
said. The drug also causes paranoia in regular users, and
can eventually lead to psychotic episodes.

Gay Men’s Health Crisis, founded in the 1980’s to help
people with AIDS, said that two years ago, it received very
few hot line calls related to crystal meth, but that it now
gets about five a day. Fewer than half the new clients in
its drug counseling program reported crystal meth use as
their main drug problem three years ago; this year the
figure is 80 percent.

Crystal Meth Anonymous, a support and recovery group, began
operating in New York five years ago with one meeting a
week, which was never attended by more than six people,
said Raul M., one of the group’s early members. Now there
are 23 meetings, some attracting crowds of more than 100.
“In the last year we’ve almost doubled in membership,” he
said. “We expect to add new meetings later this year, but
we’re running out of venues.”

A 2003 study by researchers at Hunter College found that
about 20 percent of gay men in New York had tried crystal
meth, and that about half that number had used it in the
three months preceding the study.

John Lee, 24, a graduate of Dartmouth and a research
analyst at a hedge fund company, said the drug is causing
strange behavior in his own social circle. Although he said
he never uses crystal meth and only occasionally goes out
clubbing, several friends – college-educated and middle
class – go dancing and use it almost every weekend.

“They’re constantly irritated, and it affects the way they
relate to other people, but they don’t realize it,” Mr. Lee
said. One Filipino friend frequently gets into fights with
people he imagines are making fun of his accent. “He’ll
scream at them and start shoving them,” Mr. Lee said. “He
thinks it’s racism, but it’s strictly his paranoia.”

It is in New York’s gay club world – where, according to a
recent study by the Center for H.I.V./AIDS Educational
Studies and Training in New York, 62 percent of those who
use any club drugs reported “significant and frequent use”
of crystal meth – that the social effects have been most
strongly felt. Aficionados of the scene say dance clubs
have become sterile environments filled with monotonous
music and detached dancers.

“I’ve been in this business for 25 years, and I’ve seen
four or five different sets of people come and go,” said
John Blair, a longtime party promoter who owns the Chelsea
bar XL and is a co-owner of Avalon (the former Limelight),
where he gives regular Sunday night parties.

“Each group of people goes through a similar experience
with different music and different drugs,” Mr. Blair said.
“But crystal is by far the worst drug I’ve ever seen happen
to night life. It not only takes over people’s lives, but
it really negates what the whole scene is supposed to be
about.”

In fact, the rise in crystal meth use has hurt the club
industry in New York, particularly the big-box clubs famous
for after-hours dance marathons – some gay, some mixed –
that start at 2 or 3 a.m. and often continue until 7 or 8
the following evening. Drug crackdowns by the police on the
clubs Sound Factory in March and Exit last year were at
least partly due to such parties.

And as people become heavier users, they are moving away
from the club scene, becoming increasingly reclusive and
focused on Internet sex liaisons – and, in some cases, on
just maintaining their drug habits. Mr. Darnell, the Gay
Men’s Chorus member, said that after he lost his job in
2001, he barely left his apartment, which became a
nightmarish mess. A neighbor of his in Hell’s Kitchen, who
was also using crystal meth and had also become a shut-in,
allowed his electricity to be shut off and his cats to bear
litter after litter.

Dan Carlson, a founder of an anticrystal-meth organization
called the H.I.V. Forum NYC, said one club promoter
recently offered to help with the group’s work. “I said,
`Great, but what’s in it for you?’ ” Mr. Carlson said. “And
he’s, like, `This Internet stuff is killing my business.’ ”

Mr. Carlson is one of a small but growing number of vocal
crystal-meth opponents, many of them former users
themselves. He started the H.I.V. Forum NYC last July with
Dr. Bruce Kellerhouse, a psychologist, after they became
angry at the news that H.I.V. infections had jumped 18
percent nationwide among gay and bisexual men since 1999 –
an increase that he and others involved in H.I.V.
prevention blame largely on crystal meth, which has been
associated with high rates of unprotected sex. (As yet,
there is no firm scientific data showing conclusively that
crystal meth is behind the rise, but anecdotal evidence
from doctors in New York suggests that the drug plays a
role in anywhere from 50 to 75 percent of new H.I.V. cases
in the city.)

“For many years,” Mr. Carlson said, “crystal has built this
reputation as being glamorous, being fun. Anyone who’s edgy
is doing crystal meth. And if you’re not, you’re not cool –
you’re not part of the `in’ crowd, not part of the scene.”

Last month, the H.I.V. Forum NYC held a public meeting at
the Fashion Institute of Technology that drew 300 people –
doctors, drag queens, city officials, clubbers, law
enforcement officers, recovering addicts – and was led by
John Cameron Mitchell, the director, writer and star of the
film “Hedwig and the Angry Inch.” The discussion featured
personal testimony from audience members and panelists
about the negative impact that crystal meth has had on the
gay world.

The H.I.V. Forum also started an advertising campaign in
June, to coincide with the annual Gay Pride celebration.
The latest ads, displayed on phone booths in Chelsea,
feature a buff young man clad only in briefs, looking at a
computer screen and sucking on a glass crystal-meth pipe
filled with smoke. The caption begins, “Another night on
the A List?” and the tagline says, “Crystal meth: Nothing
to be proud of.”

The ad campaign appeared a few months after a veteran AIDS
activist and H.I.V. Forum member named Peter Staley spent
$6,000 of his own money to put up posters on phone booths
in Chelsea saying: “Huge Sale! Buy crystal, get H.I.V.
free!”

But not everyone approves of such measures. In the May
issue of the gay magazine Genre, a writer who calls himself
Diabolique criticized people like Mr. Staley as “nanny
nelly liberal activists” and accused them of helping spur a
continuing police crackdown on gay night life.

“It combines the worst aspects of over-the-top antidrug
hysteria with the best of `get press at any cost’ 80’s-era
AIDS activism,” Diabolique wrote. “The ads don’t work on
drug-taking hedonists, they work on riling up the news
media, public health and law enforcement officials.”

“There’s a total split in the gay community about this
issue,” Diabolique said in an interview. “Most gay men I
know thought the `Buy crystal, get H.I.V.’ ads were
ridiculous.”

“Crystal meth is a problem,” he said. “It’s the worst drug
problem I’ve seen in all my years of clubbing. But
hysterical antidrug, antisex propaganda does nothing to
solve that problem.”

The editor in chief of Genre, Bill Henning, said he regards
the things that organizations like H.I.V. Forum say as
mainly puritanical propaganda. “It’s great they’re bringing
attention to it, but they’re not reaching the people they
need to reach with all this finger-wagging,” he said. “It’s
the same sort of antisex, antidrug argument that’s been
going on in the gay community for years.”

But John Blair, the party promoter, said the message may be
getting through. The closings of most after-hours parties,
the advertising campaigns and the personal horror stories
about the drug are beginning to have an effect, he said.

“Thank god for G.M.H.C. and the H.I.V. Forum,” he said. “In
the last year, things have started to turn around. Using
crystal is not something you brag about anymore. There’s a
growing stigma against it, especially among the younger
set. As people get more and more information, they realize
the harm it’s doing, not just to users but to the community
as a whole.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] This it, Preston
Date: September 12, 2004 at 12:03:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So what is the basis for opposition in the gay/AIDS community to utilizing ibo to deal with their crystal problem?

No Man Is a Crystal Meth User Unto Himself

August 29, 2004
By FRANK OWEN

 

BOBBY DARNELL, a 34-year-old Texan who has lived in New
York since 1996, does not fit the stereotype of a club drug
user. For six years, he was an administrator for nonprofit
groups, and he has sung in the New York City Gay Men’s
Chorus since 1998. “The chorus is mostly people from small
towns, not club kids or fashion people,” Mr. Darnell said.
“That’s sort of what attracted me to it.”

But four years ago he began casually exploring the club
scene and tried crystal meth, the street version of the
powerful stimulant methamphetamine, for the first time.
After he lost a job to cutbacks in 2001 and found himself
at home with nothing to do but look for work, he began to
spend long hours on the Internet, and fell into a pattern
of casual sexual encounters that sometimes included crystal
meth, which intensifies sexual drive and lowers
inhibitions.

“I never did it for days and days at a time, just for a
couple of days every two or three weeks,” Mr. Darnell said.
It took a long time for him to recognize that he had a
problem. But by then, he had driven away all his old
friends. “I would cancel things, and then people just
stopped calling after a while. Everyone in New York is so
busy, it’s very easy for someone to disappear.”

Eventually Mr. Darnell was hospitalized. Only his
connection with members of the chorus pulled him back from
the brink. “There was one older gentleman,” he said, “who
would just come and hold my hand all day during those first
couple of weeks” as he drifted in and out of consciousness.

Stories like Mr. Darnell’s have become increasingly common
as crystal meth has spread beyond New York’s gay club
culture to a wider cross section of gay men, especially
young ones. The drug, which can be sniffed as a powder,
smoked in crystalline shards or dissolved in water and
injected, is considered just as addictive as crack cocaine.
It is blamed for a host of problems, ruining its users’
health, robbing them of their jobs and sometimes driving
them to mental illness, suicide or death by overdose. But
its effects go well beyond the wreckage of individual
lives, creating a ripple effect in the larger social world
of gay men in the city. Long used by blue-collar Americans
as an endurance enhancer and a recreational drug, crystal
meth first became popular in gay dance clubs in New York in
the mid- to late 90’s, having migrated east from the gay
scenes in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Honolulu. But in
the last three or four years, its use here has grown
enormously.

Mr. Darnell, who has pulled his life together and is now
working as a receptionist, said four or five other chorus
members had started experimenting with the drug around the
same time he did. “One by one these people wouldn’t be
dancing anymore, one by one they would lose their jobs, one
by one they wouldn’t be at rehearsal anymore,” he said.

Many men say they have lost friendships or romantic
relationships to crystal meth, and many who don’t use it
keep their distance adamantly from those who do. The rift
is apparent on Web sites and in chat rooms where men
advertise for romantic or sex partners, often using coded
references like “PNP” (for “party and play,” meaning drugs
with sex) or “No PNP,” “chem friendly” or “absolutely no
tweakers” (a reference to people strung out on the drug).

Crystal meth “turns people into antisocial zombies,” said
Trip Zanetis, 23, a nightclub publicist who said he hates
what it is doing to his social world. “It makes people
hostile and delusional. The vibe is much more negative and
colder than in the past, thanks to this drug.”

As Max Wixom, 26, a theatrical publicist and production
designer, put it, “Even the way gay men look at each other
is different.”

“In 1996, when I first arrived in New York and started
going out, you could easily get to know people,” Mr. Wixom
said. “It felt like a community or a brotherhood.” But with
the rise of crystal meth, he said, gay night life has
turned “more predatory and dehumanized.”

Dr. Steven Lee, a New York psychiatrist who specializes in
treating crystal meth addicts, said there is now “a much
harder edge in New York gay clubs than in the past.” This
change, he said, is largely because of the drug: in
addition to its sexual and stimulant effects, crystal meth
promotes aggression.

“Some of my patients talk about how they feel on crystal
meth as akin to being robots programmed with the sole
purpose of doing more crystal and having more sex,” Dr. Lee
said. The drug also causes paranoia in regular users, and
can eventually lead to psychotic episodes.

Gay Men’s Health Crisis, founded in the 1980’s to help
people with AIDS, said that two years ago, it received very
few hot line calls related to crystal meth, but that it now
gets about five a day. Fewer than half the new clients in
its drug counseling program reported crystal meth use as
their main drug problem three years ago; this year the
figure is 80 percent.

Crystal Meth Anonymous, a support and recovery group, began
operating in New York five years ago with one meeting a
week, which was never attended by more than six people,
said Raul M., one of the group’s early members. Now there
are 23 meetings, some attracting crowds of more than 100.
“In the last year we’ve almost doubled in membership,” he
said. “We expect to add new meetings later this year, but
we’re running out of venues.”

A 2003 study by researchers at Hunter College found that
about 20 percent of gay men in New York had tried crystal
meth, and that about half that number had used it in the
three months preceding the study.

John Lee, 24, a graduate of Dartmouth and a research
analyst at a hedge fund company, said the drug is causing
strange behavior in his own social circle. Although he said
he never uses crystal meth and only occasionally goes out
clubbing, several friends – college-educated and middle
class – go dancing and use it almost every weekend.

“They’re constantly irritated, and it affects the way they
relate to other people, but they don’t realize it,” Mr. Lee
said. One Filipino friend frequently gets into fights with
people he imagines are making fun of his accent. “He’ll
scream at them and start shoving them,” Mr. Lee said. “He
thinks it’s racism, but it’s strictly his paranoia.”

It is in New York’s gay club world – where, according to a
recent study by the Center for H.I.V./AIDS Educational
Studies and Training in New York, 62 percent of those who
use any club drugs reported “significant and frequent use”
of crystal meth – that the social effects have been most
strongly felt. Aficionados of the scene say dance clubs
have become sterile environments filled with monotonous
music and detached dancers.

“I’ve been in this business for 25 years, and I’ve seen
four or five different sets of people come and go,” said
John Blair, a longtime party promoter who owns the Chelsea
bar XL and is a co-owner of Avalon (the former Limelight),
where he gives regular Sunday night parties.

“Each group of people goes through a similar experience
with different music and different drugs,” Mr. Blair said.
“But crystal is by far the worst drug I’ve ever seen happen
to night life. It not only takes over people’s lives, but
it really negates what the whole scene is supposed to be
about.”

In fact, the rise in crystal meth use has hurt the club
industry in New York, particularly the big-box clubs famous
for after-hours dance marathons – some gay, some mixed –
that start at 2 or 3 a.m. and often continue until 7 or 8
the following evening. Drug crackdowns by the police on the
clubs Sound Factory in March and Exit last year were at
least partly due to such parties.

And as people become heavier users, they are moving away
from the club scene, becoming increasingly reclusive and
focused on Internet sex liaisons – and, in some cases, on
just maintaining their drug habits. Mr. Darnell, the Gay
Men’s Chorus member, said that after he lost his job in
2001, he barely left his apartment, which became a
nightmarish mess. A neighbor of his in Hell’s Kitchen, who
was also using crystal meth and had also become a shut-in,
allowed his electricity to be shut off and his cats to bear
litter after litter.

Dan Carlson, a founder of an anticrystal-meth organization
called the H.I.V. Forum NYC, said one club promoter
recently offered to help with the group’s work. “I said,
`Great, but what’s in it for you?’ ” Mr. Carlson said. “And
he’s, like, `This Internet stuff is killing my business.’ ”

Mr. Carlson is one of a small but growing number of vocal
crystal-meth opponents, many of them former users
themselves. He started the H.I.V. Forum NYC last July with
Dr. Bruce Kellerhouse, a psychologist, after they became
angry at the news that H.I.V. infections had jumped 18
percent nationwide among gay and bisexual men since 1999 –
an increase that he and others involved in H.I.V.
prevention blame largely on crystal meth, which has been
associated with high rates of unprotected sex. (As yet,
there is no firm scientific data showing conclusively that
crystal meth is behind the rise, but anecdotal evidence
from doctors in New York suggests that the drug plays a
role in anywhere from 50 to 75 percent of new H.I.V. cases
in the city.)

“For many years,” Mr. Carlson said, “crystal has built this
reputation as being glamorous, being fun. Anyone who’s edgy
is doing crystal meth. And if you’re not, you’re not cool –
you’re not part of the `in’ crowd, not part of the scene.”

Last month, the H.I.V. Forum NYC held a public meeting at
the Fashion Institute of Technology that drew 300 people –
doctors, drag queens, city officials, clubbers, law
enforcement officers, recovering addicts – and was led by
John Cameron Mitchell, the director, writer and star of the
film “Hedwig and the Angry Inch.” The discussion featured
personal testimony from audience members and panelists
about the negative impact that crystal meth has had on the
gay world.

The H.I.V. Forum also started an advertising campaign in
June, to coincide with the annual Gay Pride celebration.
The latest ads, displayed on phone booths in Chelsea,
feature a buff young man clad only in briefs, looking at a
computer screen and sucking on a glass crystal-meth pipe
filled with smoke. The caption begins, “Another night on
the A List?” and the tagline says, “Crystal meth: Nothing
to be proud of.”

The ad campaign appeared a few months after a veteran AIDS
activist and H.I.V. Forum member named Peter Staley spent
$6,000 of his own money to put up posters on phone booths
in Chelsea saying: “Huge Sale! Buy crystal, get H.I.V.
free!”

But not everyone approves of such measures. In the May
issue of the gay magazine Genre, a writer who calls himself
Diabolique criticized people like Mr. Staley as “nanny
nelly liberal activists” and accused them of helping spur a
continuing police crackdown on gay night life.

“It combines the worst aspects of over-the-top antidrug
hysteria with the best of `get press at any cost’ 80’s-era
AIDS activism,” Diabolique wrote. “The ads don’t work on
drug-taking hedonists, they work on riling up the news
media, public health and law enforcement officials.”

“There’s a total split in the gay community about this
issue,” Diabolique said in an interview. “Most gay men I
know thought the `Buy crystal, get H.I.V.’ ads were
ridiculous.”

“Crystal meth is a problem,” he said. “It’s the worst drug
problem I’ve seen in all my years of clubbing. But
hysterical antidrug, antisex propaganda does nothing to
solve that problem.”

The editor in chief of Genre, Bill Henning, said he regards
the things that organizations like H.I.V. Forum say as
mainly puritanical propaganda. “It’s great they’re bringing
attention to it, but they’re not reaching the people they
need to reach with all this finger-wagging,” he said. “It’s
the same sort of antisex, antidrug argument that’s been
going on in the gay community for years.”

But John Blair, the party promoter, said the message may be
getting through. The closings of most after-hours parties,
the advertising campaigns and the personal horror stories
about the drug are beginning to have an effect, he said.

“Thank god for G.M.H.C. and the H.I.V. Forum,” he said. “In
the last year, things have started to turn around. Using
crystal is not something you brag about anymore. There’s a
growing stigma against it, especially among the younger
set. As people get more and more information, they realize
the harm it’s doing, not just to users but to the community
as a whole.”

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 11:22:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard? In my humble opinion, after Iboga taking a man made opiate antagonist would be the last thing you’d want to put in your system. But thats just me.
Just wanted to tell you all that I’m certainly reevaluting but I almost feel better in many ways than I did before that ‘scare’. Thank God I’m still on the other side of this.
Love -M.

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hello Howard and list,

Can anyone tell me,can you,after detoxing with Ibogaine,say…1 month later
take naltrexone with out the naltrexone bringing on some withdrawel residual?

Do you think,that by taking Naltrexone it would make you feel any different?I don’t mean high,just uncomfortable.
Would it interfere with the Ibogaine?

Also has anyone that has detoxed with Ibogaine whilst on Methadone(I have said Meth and done in the past,but realised
that Meth,of course,also stands for speed,which is not my thing,so I will say done in the future) had any withdrawels after two weeks?

I understand that for people on the done it takes longer than if using heroin and it takes away 80 to 100% of all withdrawels,however for
those that have had residual withdrawels, are there any signs of withdrawel after 2 weeks?

I have read from people on this list that have been through the Ibogaine treatment and in the information supllied on Ibogaine that
for most people the effect of Ibogaine lasts for approx’ 1 month. After this 1 month or when the Ibogaine is mostly gone from your system
do you feel any withdrawels,..hot and cold chills,..so on? I know some people have still had some diahrea after 1 month,
that doesn’t worry me. I know I have asked a lot of questions and some of these have been spoken about before.

I have started putting things into place to be able to do this. Another 2 to 3 weeks….,well,possibly 4.Still have to decide where
to go.I will speak to some of the providers on the phone when everything is in place.

Sean,was that you who told me you did your treatment with Sara?
With smiles. Jasen. (Aus)

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Strychnine found in tablets of ecstasy: Feb 19, 2000
Date: September 12, 2004 at 9:29:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ms Iboga, nobody said shit like this never happens. Everything happens at least once. Everything is possible but your experience is far different than most people I know living in an urban area. That I guarantee. Thank you for your suggestion on my doing research. Maybe it is time I pick up those things called…uh…books. Yeah, dat’s it!

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 12, 2004 at 9:21:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To the person kicking, the misery does end but it runs it’s course . Be tight. You’re fucking brave man. Good luck. I mean it!

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 12, 2004 at 9:19:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey BiscuitBoy. Yeah, I can tell you love your mom and she is a great lady. Look, you’ll know when you are ready to try something, anything to help get you into a different existence. I know what it’s like to be on a mission as all of us here do. Absolutely nothing I say will alter your course, though I do want to say until you get sick of the crap, be careful. If you need to talk man, I’ll always listen.

Regards,

Julian

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 7:47:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am very glad that Crack is not in the main stream of Australia,
You don’t ever here of it here.Is crack just simply free based coke? Or is it base coke mixed with heroin?

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 7:44:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Howard and list,

Can anyone tell me,can you,after detoxing with Ibogaine,say…1 month later
take naltrexone with out the naltrexone bringing on some withdrawel residual?

Do you think,that by taking Naltrexone it would make you feel any different?I don’t mean high,just uncomfortable.
Would it interfere with the Ibogaine?

Also has anyone that has detoxed with Ibogaine whilst on Methadone(I have said Meth and done in the past,but realised
that Meth,of course,also stands for speed,which is not my thing,so I will say done in the future) had any withdrawels after two weeks?

I understand that for people on the done it takes longer than if using heroin and it takes away 80 to 100% of all withdrawels,however for
those that have had residual withdrawels, are there any signs of withdrawel after 2 weeks?

I have read from people on this list that have been through the Ibogaine treatment and in the information supllied on Ibogaine that
for most people the effect of Ibogaine lasts for approx’ 1 month. After this 1 month or when the Ibogaine is mostly gone from your system
do you feel any withdrawels,..hot and cold chills,..so on? I know some people have still had some diahrea after 1 month,
that doesn’t worry me. I know I have asked a lot of questions and some of these have been spoken about before.

I have started putting things into place to be able to do this. Another 2 to 3 weeks….,well,possibly 4.Still have to decide where
to go.I will speak to some of the providers on the phone when everything is in place.

Sean,was that you who told me you did your treatment with Sara?
With smiles. Jasen. (Aus)

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 12, 2004 at 5:47:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim, yea I am hip to naltrexone. I tried antibuse when I wanted to stop using alcohol. I’m an alcoholic and I had to work on me before anything would work to help me stop. I would just skip the antibuse till it was gone enough from my system and then…..What happened last thing I knew we were on stage and I was slammin’ shots of Beam while I was playing and……… how the fuck did I get here? You drove. Na. Yea you did. Well, where’s my car? Out in the front yard and don’t ever park in my yard again. Park? Park? thats just where I shut it off. Fuck its still in drive. What happened to the windshield. You get the picture.   Randy

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 11, 2004 at 11:49:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think you got it confused. I was talking about Saliva. Ibogaine is illegal in the US.

Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,

I am thinking about taking Ibogaine, thing is I am on disability and am trying to get off without spending too much.  Can you tell me where you got the 20X extract, and how much you took and how much it cost.

I would appreciate it if you could keep it between you and me and off the forum.

I can be reached at jimhadey3@yahoo.com.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you,

– JIM

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for “experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well I guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last time I’ll do that again for a long long while.
But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you think that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or is it purely a coincidence?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

>Salvia.
>Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
>that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
>I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
>is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
>I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
>this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that molded
>me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
>and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
>this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
>like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the
>universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
>I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
>something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the panic
>subsided, I started to laugh
> hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
>that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
>Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
>-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 11, 2004 at 11:12:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

I can relate to your situation.  I had to move to another state where I did not know anybody.  I am not a NA lover but they do make a valid point when they say you must change your friends, playgroungs and playthings.

I might mention to you, if you go to a doc and get some Naltrexon 50 mg tabs you would stand a much better chance.  Naltrexon is a narcotic antagonist.  If you take a tab every day (or even half a tab if money is hard to come by) you will not get off if you use H.  It blocks H completely and you will not feel it thus you won’t use it since it does nothing for you.  A word of caution, never try and do so much H you override the naltrexon.  From what films I have seen when I was i the detox is you do H and don’t get high, then do some more, and some more.  Well there comes a time if you spend enough money you can override the naltraxon but this is often fatal.  Just thought I would mention another tool you can use to stay clean.

Wishing you the best,

– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I’m with Julian. No one I have ever talked to, on list or off, would ever question Howard’s motives for any thing. I rate Howard up there with Bill W. Yea, ya go to the barber shop pretty soon you get a hair cut. But, us junkies like to live on the edge. I know I do. I for one think that I have to work with others to stay straight. So if I do, there we go, I’d be around dope again. But that aint going to stop me. I don’t think it will stop Marc either. I think we have to stick together, at least here on the list, and use all the support we can find. Marc, your doing great. Keep it up and I hope the group went well. I’ll try and make it to the city after I dose and go to that meeting. I aint going anywhere near 10 dollar bags of scag before I get some treatment. You guys in NYC got lotso balls. You girls too. Well, not balls but, somebody get me out of this, You got…. lotso backbone, yea backbone thats what I’m lookin’ for. Much Love        Randy

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 11, 2004 at 9:55:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Big ovaries. 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.

I’m with Julian. No one I have ever talked to, on list or off, would ever question Howard’s motives for any thing. I rate Howard up there with Bill W. Yea, ya go to the barber shop pretty soon you get a hair cut. But, us junkies like to live on the edge. I know I do. I for one think that I have to work with others to stay straight. So if I do, there we go, I’d be around dope again. But that aint going to stop me. I don’t think it will stop Marc either. I think we have to stick together, at least here on the list, and use all the support we can find. Marc, your doing great. Keep it up and I hope the group went well. I’ll try and make it to the city after I dose and go to that meeting. I aint going anywhere near 10 dollar bags of scag before I get some treatment. You guys in NYC got lotso balls. You girls too. Well, not balls but, somebody get me out of this, You got…. lotso backbone, yea backbone thats what I’m lookin’ for. Much Love        Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Faith
Date: September 11, 2004 at 9:53:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello dear Faith,
Firstly, let me say,your son is very fortunate to have a mother like yourself.

I agree with Julian. Unless he wants to stop,it doesn’t matter what you do.With Ibogaine,it seems as though he will not have an interest in using for the first month,but what then?If he is still in the same area,with the same friends,..and doesn’t really want to stop what then?

You can’t say to a person that is still living in the same area,”I don’t want you to see your old friends” They may look for him. If he is not really ready to stop,then he cannot come back to the same circumstances. All you can do as a mother is to keep loving him unconditionally,regardless of what he does and when he is ready,(Which may be now) then he will be ready.

He has to be out of the area(if he is not really ready to stop),as, he may try, and succeed,then one day when the ibogaine is not in his system,having a bad day,he may run into one of his old friends,and still being young, may kid himself into thinking,”weeeeell,I haven’t had any for a while,I’ve been strong,I am just curious as to how it will feel after so long ect ect and so on.In my opinion,when he does the treatment(this is only if he is not ready himself) he cannot come back to the same area where he was using.It will be very hard for him.
(If he is ready himself to stop using then disregard most of what I have said).

All this being said,I have not yet experienced Ibogaine,however I will be very very soon.These is only my thoughts and opinions.

You know,one thing that helps,some may laugh,HERBS,I mean actual herbs.My sister is a naturopath and there are herbs that help with addiction that really work.I am thinking after his treatment he can drink these herbs every day for a while,you can get them from any good naturopath,and if he is clean,which he will be after his treatment,the herbs will help him stay clean.I think it also helps psychologically,to have something else that helps you.

Of course you will have to check with Howard and others that these herbs do not interfere with the Ibogaine.

Hopefully he is ready.

You are already helping him by just loving him…regardless of what he does,I believe that is very important in the healing process,…to feel truley loved,to have someone who can see who you truly are.
With smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Hello Faith. I promise to not take up much of your time but I feel you are putting too much “faith” in Ibogaine. Your son really has to want to stop using, not sort of want to or wants to stop because he thinks it is a ‘bad’ thing. I guarantee you if he really doesn’t want to stop, I mean want to within him badly, it won’t work as a means of arresting the use of drugs. It is always a good substance for spiritual growth and awareness but have a talk with your son or better yet, shouldn’t he be the one talking about this on the forum. The fact that you are here and not him is what tells me he may not completely ready to stop. I’m truly sorry if you think I’m being harsh, but I mean to be helpful. The truth is harsh at times I know, but I have no motive to be harsd with you. I don’t even know you, but addiction I know better than anything in life.

Regards,

Julian

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 11, 2004 at 9:42:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark,

I am thinking about taking Ibogaine, thing is I am on disability and am trying to get off without spending too much.  Can you tell me where you got the 20X extract, and how much you took and how much it cost.

I would appreciate it if you could keep it between you and me and off the forum.

I can be reached at jimhadey3@yahoo.com.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you,

– JIM

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for “experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well I guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last time I’ll do that again for a long long while.
But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you think that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or is it purely a coincidence?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

>Salvia.
>Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
>that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
>I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
>is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
>I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
>this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that molded
>me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
>and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
>this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
>like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the
>universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
>I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
>something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the panic
>subsided, I started to laugh
> hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
>that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
>Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
>-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:41:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

I never called them “Evil”.

_.dh

On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 11:19 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

Dave, everything you have said is true. Dealers are greedy and selfish by nature. They are fucked up people. After you have spent thousands, they won’t front you a small rock or bag. They see a demand and take advantage of it. They are no different than the huge capitalists that are captains of industry. Different product, slightly different MO. But this whole ‘metaphysical’ aspect of “GOOD vs. EVIL” is corny, naive and just not true. Yeah they are fucked up basically, but EVIL? Come on………

Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:25:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Happy birthday!  I really thought that Lori (whom I think is really great people) needed to be reminded that all of us are going to approach things differently post ibo.  I kind of feel you are not a group type, and I respect that mahn. I’m not either, but it is giving me a chance to get out of my Bergen County, NJ shell and meet some new city types, mainly post ibo ones.  All my friends in the city are junkies and crackheads.
I think I need some new city connections, if you know what I mean.:)

Sean

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:25:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

N,
I admire your courage for choosing to walk through H sick cold turkey, knowing all too well, what that means.
I admire you even more for following through with it.
I hope you feel dignity.  Because you are certainly earning it.
Much respect and love.
J
> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:00 AM
> Subject: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
>
>
>> dear list, i kicked again, sept 11 = 11 days no dope – cant type too
>> much,
>> just want all to know cold turkey is going ok, im still alive, no dope
>> 11
>> days, when does misery end?
>> <3 n.
>>
>> ps. i love you all.
>>
>>
>>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
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>>
>
>
>
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:18:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good for you! Please post when you are able.  there is a dude in NJ really pulling for you, and I am sure I am not alone.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:16:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

I mostly agree with you here, but I have heard among junkies “hot bags” which killed a poor junkie with just one shot.  Very rare, but the drug underworld is a strange and often nasty fucking place, so I would not discount anything. Just would say it certainly is the exception to rule.  If it were not, how many of us would be alive to post on this list?:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:13:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

I am really happy for you man.  Remember it is a tool, but IMO a real good one.  There is no magic pill, as you know, but it is a lot easier to clean up without getting so damn sick.:)  Again, I’m so glad you are getting set for treatment.  My two cents, try not too have too many expectations about visions etc.  Let the ibogaine show you what you need to see.  What do the Zen types say? “Don’t push the river, it flows by itself.:)

Thanks,
sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 11, 2004 at 1:08:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the shoutout to us New York City types.  There is a chance that tree of us recently dosed will be intersecting later tonight.  The city may never be the same.:)

Cheers!

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Strychnine found in tablets of ecstasy: Feb 19, 2000
Date: September 11, 2004 at 12:36:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ireland: Alert Over Ecstasy Pills Laced With Rat
Poison
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n241.a07.html
Newshawk: Martin Cooke
Votes: 0
Pubdate: Sat, 19 Feb 2000
Source: Belfast Telegraph (UK)
Copyright: 2000 Belfast Telegraph Newspapers Ltd.
Contact: editor@belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Website: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
Author: John Hicks

ALERT OVER ECSTASY PILLS LACED WITH RAT POISON

Schools Warned After Tablet Find

A PROVINCE-wide warning has gone out to all Northern
Ireland’s 1,200 schools to be on the look-out for
Ecstasy tablets laced with a deadly dose of rat
poison, it emerged today.

The alarm was raised after police in Holland seized a
tablet containing eight milligrams of strychnine which
is enough to kill.

They fear other tablets may be in circulation and
could possibly be smuggled into Northern Ireland.

Almost all the Ecstasy tablets seized by the RUC have
originated from secret drug factories in Holland.

The warning to Northern Ireland’s 350,000 school
children was issued last week by the Department of
Education after consultation with the Department of
Health.

A letter sent to all schools headed “Strychnine found
in Ecstasy tablets” said that 5 to 15 milligrams of
the poison can be fatal to humans.

The deadly tablet was seized in Holland on January 28
and is described as yellow in colour with dark brown
flecks, 9mm diameter and 4.4mm thick but with no logo.

The letter stresses that the toxic effects of the
poison begin to take effect within 10-30 minutes.

Initial symptoms may include apprehension and a
heightened sense of awarenesss, followed by muscle
rigidity in the limbs and facial muscles.  Twitching
of the muscles and convulsions may last between 30
seconds and two minutes and occur repeatedly.

The letter warns there is no specific antidote to
strychnine poisoning and death may occur during the
convulsions and most patients would not be able to
tolerate more than five convulsive episodes.

Christine Jendoubi, head of the Children and Young
People Division of the Department of Education said:
“We took a look at the information sent to us by the
Department of Health and sent out the warning to all
schools.”

Most school principals called an assembly of their
schools and read out the warning and sent copies of
the letter to all parents.

Chief Inspector John Fenton of the RUC Drugs Squad
said:”We are aware of the threat but must stress no
tablets laced with strychnine or any other poison have
been imported into Northern Ireland.

But this find is a worrying development.”

_______________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 12:02:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/11/04 9:04:38 AM, nruhtra@dsskcorp.com writes:

<< thanks brother, any positive (+) cosmic vibes acutally do help. i can feel

every morsol of everything in the world physcially and metaphysically.

peoples thoughts and prayers are qued up along with all the physical

detoration and rotting to my carbon based organic makeup which is being

destroyed.  i can feel everything.

thank you again for support.

n >>

Hey n,

Peace and comfort to you.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with holistic/music therapist
Date: September 11, 2004 at 11:47:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list,

If you want the woman’s name, email offlist.  Right
now, she wants to maintain a bit of a low profile, as
she is a music therapist, and treats substance abuse
only part of the time.

Julie

_______________________________
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 11:42:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey there,

Congratulations!  Almost two full weeks.  You are well
on your way- keep it up!  Did you use Ibogaine?

Julie

— nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:

dear list, i kicked again, sept 11 = 11 days no dope
– cant type too much,
just want all to know cold turkey is going ok, im
still alive, no dope 11
days, when does misery end?
<3 n.

ps. i love you all.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good- junk dealer scumbags- um??? Julian
Date: September 11, 2004 at 11:26:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian,

UM, I live in Toronto, and I assure you- those things
happen.  Why would I make it up?  To get attention on
an anonymous internet list?  Puhleeze…  I was trying
to facilitate conversation, and to present my point of
view, nothing else.

At one point I had 6- count them- 6 assholes calling
me night and day.  When one goes out of business, he
passes his client list to several of his ‘associates’,
and thus- in no time you’ve got 6 dudes calling
whenever they want some extra money.  Oh, and of the
dealers I dealt with, only 1 had an addiction, and it
was percosets.  The rest of them thought heroin was
bullshit, and junkies were scum.  Mind you, they loved
their coke.

Small amounts of strychnine have  also been used in
other drugs.  In fact, SMALL amounts of strychnine are
non-toxic, and have drug-like properties.  I’m not
saying EVERY FUCKING DEALER LACES HIS SHIT, but some
certainly do.  I suggest maybe doing some research.
Oh and BTW, unscented TALCUM POWDER is the cut of
choice right now.  I’m not saying it’s an every day
event, but it has happened.

Haven’t you heard of a strawberry?  I happen to live
in an area crawling with various types- crackheads who
will do almost anything for their next fix.  A girl at
my methadone clinic brags on how she gets ALL her
drugs for free- different types of sexual favours from
various dudes.  You’ve never heard of this- where the
hell are you???  Take a little trip up to Harlem, or
maybe South Bronx sometime, if you want to see women
in chains.

Oh, and I don’t need your pithy world analysis either-
I find it trite and insulting.

Julie  🙂

_______________________________
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 10:04:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks brother, any positive (+) cosmic vibes acutally do help. i can feel
every morsol of everything in the world physcially and metaphysically.
peoples thoughts and prayers are qued up along with all the physical
detoration and rotting to my carbon based organic makeup which is being
destroyed.  i can feel everything.

thank you again for support.
n

congrats.
Thinking strongly and lovingly of you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:00 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX

dear list, i kicked again, sept 11 = 11 days no dope – cant type too
much,
just want all to know cold turkey is going ok, im still alive, no dope
11
days, when does misery end?
<3 n.

ps. i love you all.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 10:04:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks brother, any positive (+) cosmic vibes acutally do help. i can feel
every morsol of everything in the world physcially and metaphysically.
peoples thoughts and prayers are qued up along with all the physical
detoration and rotting to my carbon based organic makeup which is being
destroyed.  i can feel everything.

thank you again for support.
n

congrats.
Thinking strongly and lovingly of you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:00 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX

dear list, i kicked again, sept 11 = 11 days no dope – cant type too
much,
just want all to know cold turkey is going ok, im still alive, no dope
11
days, when does misery end?
<3 n.

ps. i love you all.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 9:57:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

heroin.

What are you kicking?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 11, 2004 at 8:37:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As for Preston, I think it really is important to respect everyone’s
choices on aftercare matters.:) <

Hey, I agree!
I will continue to do so too.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

Hi Lori,

The group is 4:30 every other Friday on fifth ave in the 20s.  You can
private email for specifics.  As for Preston, I think it really is important
to respect everyone’s choices on aftercare matters.:)

Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 8:17:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

congrats.
Thinking strongly and lovingly of you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:00 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX

dear list, i kicked again, sept 11 = 11 days no dope – cant type too much,
just want all to know cold turkey is going ok, im still alive, no dope 11
days, when does misery end?
<3 n.

ps. i love you all.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good- junk dealer scumbags
Date: September 11, 2004 at 8:13:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And the other shit you mentioned? Never heard of it in New York!<

One of the very worst parts of being strung out in NYC was the dealers to be
honest- the young hoodish guys who were almost always assholes and would
treat us customers like shit.
But not all of them, and I still refuse to lump all dealers, even smack
dealers, into some sorta “all bad” catagory.
So I’m still more in agreement with Julian here than not.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good- junk dealer scumbags

Ms Iboga, I won’t go on to defend dealers but I’ve got to say two things.
Where the hell do you get high. Everything you said is ‘urban myth’!! What
dealer uses poison which costs far more than just baking soda or milk sugar
or some other shit like quinine. Dealers need repeat business and though
most are not scrupulous, please… And the other shit you mentioned? Never
heard of it in New York! The other thing is dealers are in business because
there are users. It’s business and always was, always will be. You need to
understand how ‘all things’ work in life. It’s supply and demand. First
there is a d4emand for something and then someone takes advantage of this
profit potential and becomes a supplier. It doesn’t work the other way
around. It may be possible to have a supply first and then try and create a
demand but that is costly and risky, something most dealers I know are not.
They do a sure thing. They know people want dope…they supply it. There is
no good vs.evil here. That’s the propoganda our established sysytem wants
proplr to think and has been our problem for ever! good vs. evil?
Please…….

Julian

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and Depression
Date: September 11, 2004 at 8:10:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Should I make some canna butter or brownies to help?<

Eating might not be the best idea. Try smoking if you wanna use pot- I did
and while I can’t say what would have happened if I hadn’t smoked, I did
feel like the pot smoking helped ease me into the ibo space.
I took motion sickness pills, the first time Dramamine, and the second I
don’t know what they were, my provider provided it. They were not happy to
hear I’d eaten Dramamine the first time ’round, saying it was going to “dry
me out,” but it worked very well, even though I was dry during the ibo trip.
The second time though, whatever they gave me didn’t work at all and sucked,
and I was still incredibly dried out during the second ibo trip on their
worthless motionsickness pills. (I’m not upset at all by the suckiness of
the provided anti-motionsickness pills, even if it reads that way here. I do
wish I’d just eated the Dramamine again the second time around though.)
I don’t know about the St. John’s Wort.
Ibogaine definitely had a short-lasting effect on any possibility of my
having depression. It wasn’t possible for me to feel depressed for at least
a week after the first time through. The second time though, I did feel
depressed very soon afterwards.
Best of luck to you Randy, which I’m sure I’ll repeat again before the
beginning of Oct.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and Depression

Hey all, it just hit me that if I aint sprung I won’t be depressed but, I
wonder if any one knows about what Ibogaine does for depression if anything.
Also can I have St. Johns Wart in my system when I dose. I am dosing the
first week end in October. I’d like all the info on preparation that I can
get. Should I make some canna butter or brownies to help? Should I get some
motion sickness pills? Thanx all for any help, I want this to be the most
life assuring event I ever went thru. I do know that I will take it as it
comes. Ibogaine seems to be mysterious as hell. Maybe I will just take it
and hang on. Been there before. Man, I’m gettin’ pumped. This ROCKS.
Randy

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and Depression
Date: September 11, 2004 at 7:37:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/11/04 4:00:39 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

<< Hey all, it just hit me that if I aint sprung I won’t be depressed but, I
wonder if any one knows about what Ibogaine does for depression if anything.
Also
can I have St. Johns Wart in my system when I dose. I am dosing the first
week end in October. I’d like all the info on preparation that I can get.
Should
I make some canna butter or brownies to help? Should I get some motion
sickness pills? Thanx all for any help, I want this to be the most life
assuring
event I ever went thru. I do know that I will take it as it comes. Ibogaine
seems
to be mysterious as hell. Maybe I will just take it and hang on. Been there
before. Man, I’m gettin’ pumped. This ROCKS.   >>

What does your provider say or are you self-dosing?

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 6:19:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What are you kicking?

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dear list/kickingagain/updateREDUX
Date: September 11, 2004 at 6:00:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dear list, i kicked again, sept 11 = 11 days no dope – cant type too much,
just want all to know cold turkey is going ok, im still alive, no dope 11
days, when does misery end?
<3 n.

ps. i love you all.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports Methadone dealers
Date: September 11, 2004 at 5:42:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here we go again. I think maybe the worst of all is the Methadone dealers that I have come in contact with. You know the guys. I don’t know about NY but in KY you got two kinds of clinics. Private and the ones run by mental health people. Now the ones that are private are supposed to be run by mental health professionals and I use that term loosely. These mother fuckers I came in contact with were down right sadistic. I swear to God that I have been treated better by street dealers. I tried to deal with people who were addicted themselves because I didn’t seem to have as much problems that way, we were all in the same boat. They knew where I worked and when I got paid and most of them would actually front me. But make no mistake, they would cut you in a heartbeat if it came down to it.          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 11, 2004 at 5:25:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julian, you took the words right out of my mouth. My mother has helped me in ways that I never imagined would happen. But I had to go to her and say “I need help.” She showed me this list and an account of an Ibogaine session and I said, “Yea right, I take that shit, have an epiphany and never do dope again. No thanks.” But I’m on a mission now and won’t stop till I’ve done it for myself.        Randy    PS I guess you can’t tell but I think my Mamma is a genius and I love her as much as I love life.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 11, 2004 at 5:21:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave the things you have stated about dealers is true. This is where they might be considered fucked up people. After handing over hundreds or even thousands of dollars, they won’t front you a small rock. Being greedy and selfish? Yes!! But the gay shit? The poison that kills like strycchmime? Come on! Yeah there’s garbage in some of this shit but not poison! These people are fucked up by nature due to their being parasites. They see a demand for something and become a supplier making their owb rukes as time goes by and your situation or needs change. EVIL? I don’t think so. Fucked up people

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 11, 2004 at 5:19:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave, everything you have said is true. Dealers are greedy and selfish by nature. They are fucked up people. After you have spent thousands, they won’t front you a small rock or bag. They see a demand and take advantage of it. They are no different than the huge capitalists that are captains of industry. Different product, slightly different MO. But this whole ‘metaphysical’ aspect of “GOOD vs. EVIL” is corny, naive and just not true. Yeah they are fucked up basically, but EVIL? Come on………

Julian

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 11, 2004 at 5:16:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m with Julian. No one I have ever talked to, on list or off, would ever question Howard’s motives for any thing. I rate Howard up there with Bill W. Yea, ya go to the barber shop pretty soon you get a hair cut. But, us junkies like to live on the edge. I know I do. I for one think that I have to work with others to stay straight. So if I do, there we go, I’d be around dope again. But that aint going to stop me. I don’t think it will stop Marc either. I think we have to stick together, at least here on the list, and use all the support we can find. Marc, your doing great. Keep it up and I hope the group went well. I’ll try and make it to the city after I dose and go to that meeting. I aint going anywhere near 10 dollar bags of scag before I get some treatment. You guys in NYC got lotso balls. You girls too. Well, not balls but, somebody get me out of this, You got…. lotso backbone, yea backbone thats what I’m lookin’ for. Much Love        Randy

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good- junk dealer scumbags
Date: September 11, 2004 at 5:10:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ms Iboga, I won’t go on to defend dealers but I’ve got to say two things. Where the hell do you get high. Everything you said is ‘urban myth’!! What dealer uses poison which costs far more than just baking soda or milk sugar or some other shit like quinine. Dealers need repeat business and though most are not scrupulous, please… And the other shit you mentioned? Never heard of it in New York! The other thing is dealers are in business because there are users. It’s business and always was, always will be. You need to understand how ‘all things’ work in life. It’s supply and demand. First there is a d4emand for something and then someone takes advantage of this profit potential and becomes a supplier. It doesn’t work the other way around. It may be possible to have a supply first and then try and create a demand but that is costly and risky, something most dealers I know are not. They do a sure thing. They know people want dope…they supply it. There is no good vs.evil here. That’s the propoganda our established sysytem wants proplr to think and has been our problem for ever! good vs. evil? Please…….

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 11, 2004 at 4:55:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Faith. I promise to not take up much of your time but I feel you are putting too much “faith” in Ibogaine. Your son really has to want to stop using, not sort of want to or wants to stop because he thinks it is a ‘bad’ thing. I guarantee you if he really doesn’t want to stop, I mean want to within him badly, it won’t work as a means of arresting the use of drugs. It is always a good substance for spiritual growth and awareness but have a talk with your son or better yet, shouldn’t he be the one talking about this on the forum. The fact that you are here and not him is what tells me he may not completely ready to stop. I’m truly sorry if you think I’m being harsh, but I mean to be helpful. The truth is harsh at times I know, but I have no motive to be harsd with you. I don’t even know you, but addiction I know better than anything in life.

Regards,

Julian

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and Depression
Date: September 11, 2004 at 4:51:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, it just hit me that if I aint sprung I won’t be depressed but, I wonder if any one knows about what Ibogaine does for depression if anything. Also can I have St. Johns Wart in my system when I dose. I am dosing the first week end in October. I’d like all the info on preparation that I can get. Should I make some canna butter or brownies to help? Should I get some motion sickness pills? Thanx all for any help, I want this to be the most life assuring event I ever went thru. I do know that I will take it as it comes. Ibogaine seems to be mysterious as hell. Maybe I will just take it and hang on. Been there before. Man, I’m gettin’ pumped. This ROCKS.            Randy

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 11, 2004 at 4:41:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, that was weel said about putting ones’self in Harm’s way. It is exactly playing the numbers and there is no doubt if one keeps playing that game, one day the odds will not be in your favor. I am not criticizing your words but I don’t think you need to apologize about a possible moral judgement on your part. I think everyone here knows everything you say is always in the other person’s best interest and you have never judged anyone on this forum since I first got on it. Keep your observations coming and never apologize for your motives!!

Sincerely,

Julian

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with holistic/music therapist
Date: September 11, 2004 at 4:25:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, I was hoping someone in Toronto would start doing Ibo treatments. I have a lot of friends in the Erie Pa. area. Right across the lake from London Ontario. Toronto is about 150 miles unless they really got the ferry going. I think I would have swum there if I had known about it pre 9-11. I moved back to Ky. right after that. Got my son thru high school and then ……. Its time to get me right. I live in the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen now. The Catskills of NY.   Peace      Randy

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatrizbrasil@netvigator.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with holistic/music therapist
Date: September 10, 2004 at 10:43:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, Julie please I’d bew most grateful for the reference.
Thank you so much Beatriz

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 8:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with
holistic/music therapist

Hi group,

Just wanted to let you all know- there is a woman in
Toronto(actually, about 20km outside of Toronto) who
does affordable Ibogaine HCL treatments.  She treated
my friend with pretty awesome results- I only wish I
could have afforded to do treatment with her at the
time.  She is a music therapist, and she does Ibogaine
HCL treatments either in a hotel in Toronto, or at a
cottage up north(depending on individual preference).
She is quite affordable (<$2000 USD), and comes highly
recommended.

She is currently on vacation, but will be resuming
practice in the next couple of months.  She is pretty
selective with whom she treats, and wants to remain
relatively anonymous for the time being. She practices
‘alternative medicine’, which may or may not be
favourable with individuals in authority.  She has a
lot of experience, and is available for treatments in
either Windsor or the GTA area.

If you are interested, let me know, and I will forward
her email address.

luv and good wishes,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 9:27:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean,
Well,slap my arse and call me Mary,did I really win,woo yoo.As per your request,sending a good looking alien your way.What the…
With smiles Jasen (Aus)  🙂
Hi Jasen,

This is starting to remind of a game we used to play when very stoned. We would try to retrace totally rambling conversations backwards to see how they started. I think you win the game.  It was you who said,”alien rape, what the fuck.”:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [” The Schwartz “]]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 9:12:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jason,

I seem to be dropping words lately.  I meant all is lost if they take your freedom of thought. I lost a word along the way.  But not all is lost.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 7:47:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People that prey on your vulnerability, letting you wait sick as a dog
needlessly hours before producing product – often in the pouring,
freezing rain, stepping on the dope with a myriad of foreign substances
(wonderful things like like scopalamine for instance), beating their
“girlfriends” over a small, missing piece of crack… Putting ground up
glass in their blow… refusing to front the smallest bag to get well
with inspite of the fact that I’d handed over hundreds of dollars a
day/week to them consistently for a year… christ I could write a book
to list all the fucked up things i have witnessed dealers do.<

Ooooooook, I’ll grant you these “minor” points Dave, but STILL….LOL.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

weeeeellllll, is the dealer really “bad” Dave?

The ones I’ve known? Fuck Yeah, I’ve known some really fucking BAD
dealers in my twenty five years of doping.

People that prey on your vulnerability, letting you wait sick as a dog
needlessly hours before producing product – often in the pouring,
freezing rain, stepping on the dope with a myriad of foreign substances
(wonderful things like like scopalamine for instance), beating their
“girlfriends” over a small, missing piece of crack… Putting ground up
glass in their blow… refusing to front the smallest bag to get well
with inspite of the fact that I’d handed over hundreds of dollars a
day/week to them consistently for a year… christ I could write a book
to list all the fucked up things i have witnessed dealers do.

I have no love for most dealers of the powdered/tarred narcotic
substances.

To be fair, I did have one dealer who was pretty cool, and had
integrity. but he was more of a middleman trying to get well. He would
have loved Ibo, but he died from hep C a few years back.

_.dh

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [” The Schwartz “]]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 6:13:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

” As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. This information is quoted from the book “Internal Family Systems Therapy” by Richard C. Schwartz ”
May the Schwartz Be w/th y0U,
J

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:
Hey Jason,

Sounds like a good idea.  I believe that no human being is all one thing, as in all junkie or all addict if you prefer.  The kind of therapy I am now going though (internal family systems) involves looking at all the various parts of myself, letting them talk,
letting them make peace with each other.  Currently I am encouraging the part of me that wants to move on and leave the dope (H) and coke alone and move forward in my life.  That’s the part that sought out this list and ibogaine. 

Yeah, the one freedom they can never take is our minds, unless we let them. Don’t let the SOBs take that, because, in my opinion really all is lost.

Pax,
Sean
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
All is Lost?
Perhaps.
What are the limits of (fill in the blank)?
w/Love.
111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good (off topic, sort of?, but mabe not)
Date: September 10, 2004 at 2:36:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark

I have associated with both AEU and UU for about a decade now.  I was and continue to be more active in UU, though.  I like the AEU just fine, however.

This post is turning into alphabet soup.  How about addiction treatment options: AA,
RR, NA, SMART, REBT….just had to throw that in. Keeps an off topic post still remotely on topic.  I can be really anal about that sometimes.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 2:27:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lori,

The group is 4:30 every other Friday on fifth ave in the 20s.  You can private email for specifics.  As for Preston, I think it really is important to respect everyone’s choices on aftercare matters.:)

Sean

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 2:13:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

weeeeellllll, is the dealer really “bad” Dave?

The ones I’ve known? Fuck Yeah, I’ve known some really fucking BAD dealers in my twenty five years of doping.

People that prey on your vulnerability, letting you wait sick as a dog needlessly hours before producing product – often in the pouring, freezing rain, stepping on the dope with a myriad of foreign substances (wonderful things like like scopalamine for instance), beating their “girlfriends” over a small, missing piece of crack… Putting ground up glass in their blow… refusing to front the smallest bag to get well with inspite of the fact that I’d handed over hundreds of dollars a day/week to them consistently for a year… christ I could write a book to list all the fucked up things i have witnessed dealers do.

I have no love for most dealers of the powdered/tarred narcotic substances.

To be fair, I did have one dealer who was pretty cool, and had integrity. but he was more of a middleman trying to get well. He would have loved Ibo, but he died from hep C a few years back.

_.dh

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good (off topic, sort of?, but mabe not)
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:56:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, are you a member of the American Ethical Union? I picked up the term non-theist there (I think you used it once). Mark(ryan)

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good (off topic, sort of?, but mabe not)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:47:10 EDT

Hey Randy,

This whole bad and good argument has always interested me. For years I was
involved with humanist religious movements which taught that human beings are
essentially all good, but environment etc. can cause them to act really bad.

The originis of these movements are all pre WW2.  While some movements seemed
to rethink things in wake of the holocaust, my own movement, Unitarian
Universalism, still never seemed to really grapple with the bad, or words, “evil”
side of human nature.

After September 11, suddenly a whole new reexamination occurred.  I think
more UUs are shifting toward the newer humanist idea that good and bad impulses
spring up in us all the time.  What you cultivate is what you will be in a
sense. Last week in Russia we saw people who sure ain’t cultivating anything good.

That still does not say anyone is all bad.  As for us drug users, this “bad”
and “good”
labeling never really seemed all that helpful to me.  It’s more like harmful
to me or not harmful, concerning my choices.  And then there is less harmful
like weed instead of heroin.

Anyway, always good to read your posts Randy.

Pax,
Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeź Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good (off topic, sort of?, but mabe not)
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:47:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

This whole bad and good argument has always interested me. For years I was involved with humanist religious movements which taught that human beings are essentially all good, but environment etc. can cause them to act really bad.

The originis of these movements are all pre WW2.  While some movements seemed to rethink things in wake of the holocaust, my own movement, Unitarian Universalism, still never seemed to really grapple with the bad, or words, “evil” side of human nature.

After September 11, suddenly a whole new reexamination occurred.  I think more UUs are shifting toward the newer humanist idea that good and bad impulses spring up in us all the time.  What you cultivate is what you will be in a sense. Last week in Russia we saw people who sure ain’t cultivating anything good.

That still does not say anyone is all bad.  As for us drug users, this “bad” and “good”
labeling never really seemed all that helpful to me.  It’s more like harmful to me or not harmful, concerning my choices.  And then there is less harmful like weed instead of heroin.

Anyway, always good to read your posts Randy.

Pax,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] CSI: Ibogaine episode on now
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:30:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jason,

Sounds like a good idea.  I believe that no human being is all one thing, as in all junkie or all addict if you prefer.  The kind of therapy I am now going though (internal family systems) involves looking at all the various parts of myself, letting them talk,
letting them make peace with each other.  Currently I am encouraging the part of me that wants to move on and leave the dope (H) and coke alone and move forward in my life.  That’s the part that sought out this list and ibogaine.

Yeah, the one freedom they can never take is our minds, unless we let them. Don’t let the SOBs take that, because, in my opinion really all is lost.

Pax,
Sean

From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 11:04:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what time is her group?  sorry to hear you won’t make it preston.  how does an ibo community come together?

lori

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
I’m shocked! ;o)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.<

I’ve come to the decision that I will not be attending. For my own reasons.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

still on that bad dealer shit???? I drink beer and on only one occasion
since I got back have I had more than 4 beers. I’m Irish goddammitt!
Hello… rational recovery? What have we been talkin about all this time???
;o)
Seriously though, I see what your sayin.
Remember I’ve been sayin that these things seem to keep standing between me
and a bag? Well Wedensday night obviously took the cake on that one and now
I feel that was just so significant in my process. I woke up that next
morning so grateful and so happy to still be free. Slavery is such a good
way to look at it. But I also know that was my only get out of jail free
cards and next time I will certainly not be as lucky.
Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.
Thanks for the support.

Preston Peet wrote:
ahhh, shades of difference, I think they crop up everywhere, in relation to
every sort of person. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones, good girlfriends
and bad ones, good teachers and bad ones, good dealers and bad ones, etc.
etc.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

The dealer is bad? The fuck! in’ ones I know are. The real dealers. You
know.
the ones who jack up the price when they know your sick and they have the
only dope around. The ones who don’t mind selling that shit you have to
shoot 3 bags to just get well. 5 or 6 to get high. Those mother fuckers who
sell you the dope then talk about what a junkie you are. The ones who make a
living off of our addiction and aint sprung themselves Those mother fuckers
who desperately need the shit……… I’ll stop. The people who deal to
keep from being sick never seemed to rip me off. Its those aforementioned
ones that I can’t stand. I hope that aint too red neck for ya. Randy

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Online NY Times has photos of all the fallen soldiers from Iraq- very touching
Date: September 10, 2004 at 11:51:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi guys,

I’m not sure if you’re interested, but I was reading
the online NY Times, and came across this:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/20040909_THOUSAND_GRAPHIC/index_GRAPHIC.html?th

It’s an interactive feature, that has photos and vital
statistics of all the fallen soldiers.  I found it
very touching, and also kind of hard to look at, as
most of the soldiers were around my age or younger.
What a colossal waste of a life!  George Bush, shame
on you- your daddy was a killer too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Julie 🙁

_______________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good- junk dealer scumbags
Date: September 10, 2004 at 11:39:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

No kidding-  how about the dealers that circulate your
phone number around to their dealer friends, so you
have four mother fuckers calling you at all hours of
the day.

OR:  how about the dudes who take blowjobs from
strung-out junkies as payment, or keep “strawberries”
around so whenever them or their friends get horny,
they can all use and then discard them.

OR: how about the dealer who cuts his shit with
strychnine(sp??), and then mysteriously disappears for
two weeks when one of his clients overdoses or dies.

Junk dealers are the scum of the universe; the rust on
the infrastructure of society…

Julie

_______________________________
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 10:54:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m shocked! ;o)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.<

I’ve come to the decision that I will not be attending. For my own reasons.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

still on that bad dealer shit???? I drink beer and on only one occasion
since I got back have I had more than 4 beers. I’m Irish goddammitt!
Hello… rational recovery? What have we been talkin about all this time???
;o)
Seriously though, I see what your sayin.
Remember I’ve been sayin that these things seem to keep standing between me
and a bag? Well Wedensday night obviously took the cake on that one and now
I feel that was just so significant in my process. I woke up that next
morning so grateful and so happy to still be free. Slavery is such a good
way to look at it. But I also know that was my only get out of jail free
cards and next time I will certainly not be as lucky.
Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.
Thanks for the support.

Preston Peet wrote:
ahhh, shades of difference, I think they crop up everywhere, in relation to
every sort of person. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones, good girlfriends
and bad ones, good teachers and bad ones, good dealers and bad ones, etc.
etc.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

The dealer is bad? The fuck! in’ ones I know are. The real dealers. You
know.
the ones who jack up the price when they know your sick and they have the
only dope around. The ones who don’t mind selling that shit you have to
shoot 3 bags to just get well. 5 or 6 to get high. Those mother fuckers who
sell you the dope then talk about what a junkie you are. The ones who make a
living off of our addiction and aint sprung themselves Those mother fuckers
who desperately need the shit……… I’ll stop. The people who deal to
keep from being sick never seemed to rip me off. Its those aforementioned
ones that I can’t stand. I hope that aint too red neck for ya. Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Marc beig in jail is good!
Date: September 10, 2004 at 10:53:21 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: ED FORCHION – U.S. DISSIDENT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com ; rlake@mapinc.org
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Marc beig in jail is good!

MARC EMERY being in jail for marijuana is good, to bad it isn’t in an
American jail were the confronts aren’t as good as our Canadian cousins. I
never thought I’d say that about anyone jailed for marijuana, but maybe the
trip to the “GULAG” will make Marc understand the motivations of people like
me who’ve been to “prisoned” for marijuana.

For the last few years I’ve been fighting this “WAR ON US” and have lost
everything I owned as a result; including my freedom. The lost of my
“freedom only strenghtened me”. I truely view the politicans and the
political parties that support the “prohibition on marijuana as my enemy”
and I’m more outspoken now than ever before, maybe it will do the same for
Marc.

While Marc has supported some “activist”, and make’s millions along the way
this dose of the reality that many in the movement have experienced will be
good in the long run for him and the movent. Several months ago I dis-agreed
with a plan to give my enemy (Democrat) Dennis Kurcich $4000.oo while
members of Marc’s own created U.S.Marijuana Party like me, or Richard
Rawlings received nothing. For this I was banned by the U.S. Marijuana Party
leadership and Marc said, “he would “marginalize me” which apparently has
happened. If I could talk to Marc now I’d suggest he ask his friend Dennis
Kurcinich for help and stop bitching at his ineffective lawyer. He now has
been treated like a commoner, and hopefully on Oct 18th he will come out
more supportive of people like more who been where he now is!!!!!

Maybe this little 3 month eye opener will open his “pocketbook” to those of
us who have fought this “WAR” without any $ support.

Richard Lake <rlake@mapinc.org> wrote:

Marc made it very clear before Steve Kubby wrote his opinion, below, what
had happened.

I respect both Steve and Marc, and am puzzled by Steve’s opinion. Second
guessing what a person should have done in a court room, well…. Steve
Kubby was not there.

But you can read what Marc thinks of Steve’s statement in the prison blog
being updated here:

http://bcmarijuanaparty.com/

and specifically on this page

http://bcmarijuanaparty.com/main/jail.blog.monday.september.6th.html#continue

quote

Here’s another postscript. I understand Steve Kubby is circulating a notice
to the effect that I did everyone a disservice by pleading guilty at my
trial. I did not ever utter the word “guilty”. I fully expected to have a
trial and plead Not Guilty. My lawyer, Leanne Johnson, whom I’ve ceased
using, did a terri! ble job from beginning to end. All the advice she
received from myself and John Conroy was to plead not guilty. In the 24
hours before the trial, when I was in Saskatoon and she could’ve got hold
of me, she did not contact me or attempt to communicate with me at all, and
I first saw her when she breezed into the court, and told me to sit in the
defendant’s chair… the judge comes in, and all of a sudden she gets up,
she pleads Guilty, and within seconds, the lawyers are right on to
sentencing in front of the judge! I was absolutely stunned silent, figuring
there was some sort of special deal she must’ve arranged with the
prosecution.

But before I can even say anything, the prosecution starts talking to the
judge and the sentencing is underway. And the prosecution gets exactly what
they’re asking for: they asked for three months, I got three months. Leanne
Johnson was totally derelict in her duties as my lawyer in not consulting me
before court and explaining what she was to do. She compromised my
instructions completely. She was ineffective in arguing the sentencing as
well. So then I hired Saskatchewan’s best and most expensive lawyer, Mark
Brayford, who said, “Alas, an appeal would be futile.”

He said, and I quote, “The Saskatchewan Court of Appeal will uphold that
shitty decision. You’re screwed. You’ll have to sit tight until October
18th. If it’s any consolation, you’re doing your movement and people a lot
more good there than if they let you out on bail for an appeal, because it
would deflate all the activity going on now because of that outrageous
sentence. I’d like to take your $5,000, which would be the cost of filing
and pressing the appeal, but you’d get nothing for your money, and the shit
storm that’s going on because you’re in jail would end if you got released
on bail. And the Court of Appeal would uphold the bad decision and then
! you’d just be back in a Saskatoon jail for the full sentence anyway. You
don’t want to come back to Saskatchewan to go to jail, do you? And it would
be more difficult to rally your people a second time.” That’s what the best
lawyer in this province said. So here I am, until October 18th.

It hurts to hear Steve Kubby say I’ve done a disservice to everyone,
because of a guilty plea I didn’t make. If it weren’t for me and Michelle
Rainey, Steve Kubby would most certainly be dead or in prison in the USA
and Canada — I paid his lawyers over $15,000, I paid his bail of $5,000, I
got him lots of pot when he had none, I found him a house, and I gave him a
job. He has some nerve criticising me. Steve Kubby should be worshipping
the very dust I leave behind for all I’ve done for him. In fact, if he’s so
confident about his courtroom knowledge and ability, what’s he doing in a
foreign country, dodging his own country’s legal system? At lea! st I have
no
intention of ever leaving my country and my people, no matter what my
government does to me. Jesus said to his brethren, “One who eats bread with
me has lifted up his heel against me”, from John 13:19. It’s bad enough
there was a Judas in the crowd of activists the night I was arrested in
Saskatoon, who betrayed me to the police. And it’s very bad that my
Saskatoon laywer, Leanne Johnson, betrayed my clear instructions and
behaved negligently. But to have a man who owes his very life and current
freedom to me insult me in public forums with words is sickening. My father
warned me about spoiling people. He said, “Marc, don’t give them unearned
kindness, they’ll resent it intensely because they’ll never be able to pay
you back in return for your kindness, and believe it or not, it will make
these people mean, bitter, and they’ll turn on you.” Hm. Dad was right
sometimes. Actually, Dad was right all the time, but I’m not g! oing to stop
being kind to everybody because actually, despite any of the risks, I’ve
always enjoyed being nice to everyone.

end quote

Richard

At 12:05 PM 9/6/04, Preston Peet wrote
No comments from me…yet.

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steve Kubby”
To:
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:43 AM
Subject: How Marc Emery’s Guilty Plea Endangers Us All

HOW MARC EMERY’S GUILTY PLEA ENDANGERS US ALL

Despite his many heroic deeds and great contributions to the cannabis
movement, Marc Emery has done us all a disservice by pleading guilty to
trafficking. All cannabis users are endangered as police and
prosecutors hear about Marc’s conviction and decide to arrest others
for “trafficking,” just for passing a joint. Marc should never had
pled guilty and he certainly should have objected when his lawyer pled
guilty for him. By his own admission, Marc accepted a guilty plea,
because he thought his lawyer had arranged a really good plea bargain.
Guess what? There is no such thing as a good plea bargain. Marc needs
to get off his pitty potty and fight, fight, fight! If I were Marc, I
would follow Ed Pearson’s advice and file a Writ of Habeas Corpus to
force the court to examine the Parker decision to determine that the
law has fallen and that the court had no authority to revive a dead
law. In the meantime, I am forwarding a reprint of my “Advice to
Defendants,” reprinted from one of the USA’s top! legal journals, the
Los Angeles Daily Journal (CA), Website: http://www.dailyjournal.com/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 10:52:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.<

I’ve come to the decision that I will not be attending. For my own reasons.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

still on that bad dealer shit???? I drink beer and on only one occasion
since I got back have I had more than 4 beers. I’m Irish goddammitt!
Hello… rational recovery? What have we been talkin about all this time???
;o)
Seriously though, I see what your sayin.
Remember I’ve been sayin that these things seem to keep standing between me
and a bag? Well Wedensday night obviously took the cake on that one and now
I feel that was just so significant in my process. I woke up that next
morning so grateful and so happy to still be free. Slavery is such a good
way to look at it. But I also know that was my only get out of jail free
cards and next time I will certainly not be as lucky.
Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.
Thanks for the support.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
ahhh, shades of difference, I think they crop up everywhere, in relation to
every sort of person. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones, good girlfriends
and bad ones, good teachers and bad ones, good dealers and bad ones, etc.
etc.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

The dealer is bad? The fuck! in’ ones I know are. The real dealers. You
know.
the ones who jack up the price when they know your sick and they have the
only dope around. The ones who don’t mind selling that shit you have to
shoot 3 bags to just get well. 5 or 6 to get high. Those mother fuckers who
sell you the dope then talk about what a junkie you are. The ones who make a
living off of our addiction and aint sprung themselves Those mother fuckers
who desperately need the shit……… I’ll stop. The people who deal to
keep from being sick never seemed to rip me off. Its those aforementioned
ones that I can’t stand. I hope that aint too red neck for ya. Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 9:40:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

still on that bad dealer shit???? I drink beer and on only one occasion since I got back have I had more than 4 beers. I’m Irish goddammitt! Hello… rational recovery? What have we been talkin about all this time??? ;o)
Seriously though, I see what your sayin.
Remember I’ve been sayin that these things seem to keep standing between me and a bag? Well Wedensday night obviously took the cake on that one and now I feel that was just so significant in my process. I woke up that next morning so grateful and so happy to still be free. Slavery is such a good way to look at it. But I also know that was my only get out of jail free cards and next time I will certainly not be as lucky.
Going to Barbara Judd’s thing in spite of myself this afternoon.
Thanks for the support.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
ahhh, shades of difference, I think they crop up everywhere, in relation to
every sort of person. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones, good girlfriends
and bad ones, good teachers and bad ones, good dealers and bad ones, etc.
etc.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

The dealer is bad? The fuckin’ ones I know are. The real dealers. You know.
the ones who jack up the price when they know your sick and they have the
only dope around. The ones who don’t mind selling that shit you have to
shoot 3 bags to just get well. 5 or 6 to get high. Those mother fuckers who
sell you the dope then talk about what a junkie you are. The ones who make a
living off of our addiction and aint sprung themselves Those mother fuckers
who desperately need the shit……… I’ll stop. The people who deal to
keep from being sick never seemed to rip me off. Its those aforementioned
ones that I can’t stand. I hope that aint too red neck for ya. Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 10, 2004 at 8:59:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 10 September 2004 04:04
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Thankyou Nick,
Thankyou for your time and interesting information.
May I ask,”who are you”?
Are you a patient,provider or onlooker?
With smiles Jasen.

Hi Jasen,

Thanks. I took ibogaine a lot in 1999, in the UK and the Cameroun, but not
for drug or alcohol stuff, more psychotherapy. A little before that I also
set up a website, ibogaine.co.uk, to let people have simple unbiased info
about the drug, something there didn’t seem to be so much of about at the
time. Nowadays I just take lower doses of rootbark every now and again,
sometimes with friends. I don’t sell it or treat people.

Nick

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes
you
feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine,
there
is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the
fear, and then
simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual
guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded
and
not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with
you can be
the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 8:08:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ahhh, shades of difference, I think they crop up everywhere, in relation to
every sort of person. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones, good girlfriends
and bad ones, good teachers and bad ones, good dealers and bad ones, etc.
etc.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good

The dealer is bad? The fuckin’ ones I know are. The real dealers. You know.
the ones who jack up the price when they know your sick and they have the
only dope around. The ones who don’t mind selling that shit you have to
shoot 3 bags to just get well. 5 or 6 to get high. Those mother fuckers who
sell you the dope then talk about what a junkie you are. The ones who make a
living off of our addiction and aint sprung themselves Those mother fuckers
who desperately need the shit……… I’ll stop. The people who deal to
keep from being sick never seemed to rip me off. Its those aforementioned
ones that I can’t stand. I hope that aint too red neck for ya.   Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 7:33:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Between me and all of you the Noriboagine is gone ;o(. <

Is it?
I myself still find myself seeing the occasional genuine, very apparent
trails, though they are few and far between now.
I don’t feel so much in Golden Time anymore, and haven’t for some time,
but I do feel as though the ibo (or noribo) is still in me, and could swear
reading somewhere that it stays around for quite some time. I could be wrong
about that.
But nothing, not even ibo or noribo, is going to keep you strong enough
to resist your DOC, especially if you drink alcohol a lot, and continue to
run yourself ragged. Remember those words I posted the other day, that thing
I took from -A meetings and still use all the time?
HALT- Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. Any of these can lead me to thoughts of
using destructively.
Drinking was almost always (but not every single time I must admit) at the
root of any relapsing I’ve done.
Quit tempting yourself Mark, because that’s what you’re doing testing
yourself every day.
Or so I think anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

I want to get raped by an alien….No fair!
Hello all, I’m home safe and sound and at home,,, another day. I can’t say
that I’ve slowed down all that much but I’m certainly holding onto what
happened last night. Between me and all of you the Noriboagine is gone ;o(.
Stuck living life completely on life’s terms again. Yuck!
However, tonight I switched it up a bit. Met a girl that I’ve been seeing
for a while off and on and thats always fun  but instead of going home with
her I decided to take a walk and catch up later. So I know what you must be
thinking… Okay even I had to ask myself what the motivation  was to take a
walk by myself but something said “be by yourself for a while”. Then my feet
took me east, as they always seem to lately, and I walked past a long term
treatment center I was in as a kid and ended up running into one of the
night directors or whatever there ‘title’ is in a therapeutic community
would be. Anyway started talking about Ibogaine and how nothing worked
and… well you all know… the Iboagine speech.
They had never heard of it but were very interested. Especially when I threw
the New York Rockefeller conspiracy in the mix. Anyway gave them Howards
website and my number and they said they’d call this week. How could I ever
have thought of giving this back??? An identify in junk is not something I
ever want to know again. Ugh!
Maybe cuz I’ve been a dopefeind for as long as I can remember. Oh yeah, that
might be it.
I don’t think I’m bad…. sick and suffering? Sure but its getting a bit
better every day. Thanks for all the kind words. Going to sleep.

Sean, what time? I’LL be there but let meknow when. Saw Ken Alpert and he
agrees its a good idea as well. But I tell you now, first time she picks up
the phone and starts to bullshit, I’m gone.

Howard, you still under water or something? Hope all is well. -.M.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jasen,

This is starting to remind of a game we used to play when very stoned. We
would try to retrace totally rambling conversations backwards to see how
they started. I think you win the game.  It was you who said,”alien rape,
what the fuck.”:)
ean

Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger – Communicate in real time. Download now.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on thei site.
Date: September 10, 2004 at 7:18:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla wrote >She’s a nice lady who is
upset by what happened, making fun of her or ignoring
her isn’t the answer to everything.<

Have to chime in here. I myself wasn’t around to see any of the battling
going on between anyone else in relation to Anne’s troubles, but I have
known Anne (from a distance, even though she lives about a block from me)
since meeting her at the counter of the pet food store almost 2 years ago
now, the one we both by pet supplies in. She immediately signed on to the
DrugWar list from my telling her about it that once when we met face to
face, and she cares very much about ending the stinkin’ war. So while I do
know there were some nasty things written by one or the other folk involved
in that disagreement, including by Anne (although I’ve not actually seen
those nasty messages from any side of the issue), I also know that, as
noted, some kind of peace has been made and the principles are not now at
odds, so far as I know. I’d be (un)happy to be corrected of course, but
still, Anne’s not bad people, not at all.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo
negativity on thei site.

Sorry Vector but I don’t think it’s that funny, you,
patrick, howard, will all makes jokes about it, I
don’t think that’s right. She’s a nice lady who is
upset by what happened, making fun of her or ignoring
her isn’t the answer to everything.

Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

I think there was a reply from Patrick years ago,
the owner of the site
is Dr. Moraes he’s on this list, the letter is one
version written by
Ann Ardeleno which she also put into treatment
watchdog and posts to
lists all the time. None of it ever gets resolved,
her problem is with
Howard and Bob Sisko treating her in NY a long time
ago.

She replies to mail, she sent me email months ago
replying to something
I wrote that wasn’t to her.

Her email is something like antelope, she posts all
the time to the
Drugwar list but for some reason isn’t on this one.

She has a problem with Howard and Bob, talking to
her doesn’t help
change what she has to say, there was some other
site lower east side
where she used to fill pages with her complaints,
she has some other
poetry site.

I think she needs to use the ibogaine patient
complaint form 😉

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hey list,

Has anyone ever seen the ibogaine link at heroin
helper. It is
extremely negative. At the end it asks for
feedback from an ibogaine
expert. not being such myself, I will not reply
to their request.
Don’t know if any of our experts would like to
put their two cents
in. The gist of the page is that ibogaine is not
effective, and can
be
deadly. The deadly part is supposed to be from a
dead relative of an
ibogaine patient.

I don’t know if our experts find this site
worthy of reply, but I
thought I would pass it on.

http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

Thanks,
Sean

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 7:11:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The dealer is bad? The fuckin’ ones I know are. The real dealers. You know. the ones who jack up the price when they know your sick and they have the only dope around. The ones who don’t mind selling that shit you have to shoot 3 bags to just get well. 5 or 6 to get high. Those mother fuckers who sell you the dope then talk about what a junkie you are. The ones who make a living off of our addiction and aint sprung themselves Those mother fuckers who desperately need the shit……… I’ll stop. The people who deal to keep from being sick never seemed to rip me off. Its those aforementioned ones that I can’t stand. I hope that aint too red neck for ya.   Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: everyone good
Date: September 10, 2004 at 6:50:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

weeeeellllll, is the dealer really “bad” Dave?
I’m not so sure I’ll go that far myself. If I start labeling folks like that
bad, I might start to find myself agreeing with prohibitionist maniacs in
other ways too, and I’d hate that, a lot. I don’t think it’s bad per se to
do the drugs themselves, so I cannot find it in myself to call the dealers
bad either.

But Howard et al are right Mark, you’re not bad- only I do think you are
incredibly, oh, reckless going up there day after day, night after night,
telling me and more importantly yourself that you aren’t going to succumb.
That’s just silly my friend. You can’t expect to see folks going in to score
a substance that you like so much and not find yourself tempted, over and
over again.

Sorry I didn’t call last night, but I’m taking a break from everything for a
few days- I need to get away from “treatment” “recovery” “relapsing” etc.
I’m not “relapsing” but I just feel too close suddenly to way to many other
people, and it’s a bit nervewracking sometimes. That said, I’d love to see
you around 10 at the Slipper Room Saturday for my b-day. We’re having some
friends stop by and I’d love to see you there. (That invite goes out to
anyone else in the area too btw. Feel free to stop by, but if you bring a
badge or gun, you aren’t welcome. You have to leave those at the door.)

Like I was saying the other night Mark, you cannot put yourself at the
lion’s door and not expect to be attacked. (Or something like that- I don’t
think I used that analogy but still…) Your brain has become habituated to
using opiates. You’ve been “clean” now for how long? Just over a month? How
long have you used opiates? Over a decade at least, right? 12 years? 13? I
know it’s been a long time for such a young man, so please, give yourself a
break, and stop going uptown for a while. Ask your friends to come downtown
or something.

Anyway, thinking good thoughts for you and for everyone.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.

i agree.

mark=good. dealer=bad

_.dh

On Thursday, September 9, 2004, at 01:55 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Sorry Mark,

Your not allowed to call yourself bad.  That is simply self
destructive.

Howard

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] CSI: Ibogaine episode on now
Date: September 10, 2004 at 4:56:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.baylorhealth.com/webapps/nursery/babydetail.aspx?babyid=65133

Birds in a cage flap wings in my perifial vision while family visits.  Out of the city, into the country, visit horses.  Last “symbol” before I left was clearly in reference to HCL.  It was an electric bug light lol, how steriotypical lol
Hard to put into words but really helped finalize some of the shyt, which seems long overdue.

Areas of work?  re-define “looking glass self” ie seperateing the jason from the junkie in my own mind and I find that one of my main vices to overcome is a lack of focus.  I am very, very scattered.  Have trouble focusing…Like I caught ADD or somtin.  Also, I am curious about when “fatigue” becomes chronic.  Yes, in compairison to how I would have felt walking through sick without ibo, much is way better.  But I get so angry with the policies of methadone clinics, how patient rights are not there and all the people that suffer as a result.  Let it go.  Play your hand.  It is what it is.  Where do we go from here?
“Let go of all the brainwashing.”

So 2 request?
F
ocus.

Stength.

Focus.

Stength.
A
D
I
S
Tarzan Education.
Learn Family, then families.
Focus.
Strength.
Focus.
A

FYI if you would like to see the CSI episode online: http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/archive.cgi?q=ibogaine (Pen Halla2Mr.E &dem]

“It’s real in the field.” http://www.tcbap.org/
J
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

trtye <trtye@gci.net> wrote:
I’ve been out of town for a week, have over 270 posts to catch up on. I happen to have the TV on and for those of you in the Alaska area (or possibly Central Time Zone) the CSI-Ibogaine episode is airing right now on (?Spike TV) – local 37. Have heard about some of you guys talk about it in past posts but I’ve never seen it- so I’m signing off to watch. trtye
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] CSI: Ibogaine episode on now
Date: September 10, 2004 at 2:34:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been out of town for a week, have over 270 posts to catch up on. I happen to have the TV on and for those of you in the Alaska area (or possibly Central Time Zone) the CSI-Ibogaine episode is airing right now on (?Spike TV) – local 37. Have heard about some of you guys talk about it in past posts but I’ve never seen it- so I’m signing off to watch. trtye

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post ibo therapy
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:41:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

iLL be there. I’ll hold off on the phone comments until it happens again. ;o)
Thanks so much Sean and l’m lookin forward to seein you tomorrow. -m.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Marc,

Barbara Judd’s group is at 4:30 today..you should let her know how you feel about the phone.

Anyone in the NYC area interested in post ibogaine therapy with Barbara Judd can drop me an email if you would like info.  The group is open to all the recently dosed in New York.

Thanks,
sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post ibo therapy
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:34:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marc,

Barbara Judd’s group is at 4:30 today..you should let her know how you feel about the phone.

Anyone in the NYC area interested in post ibogaine therapy with Barbara Judd can drop me an email if you would like info.  The group is open to all the recently dosed in New York.

Thanks,
sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:27:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I want to get raped by an alien….No fair!
Hello all, I’m home safe and sound and at home,,, another day. I can’t say that I’ve slowed down all that much but I’m certainly holding onto what happened last night. Between me and all of you the Noriboagine is gone ;o(. Stuck living life completely on life’s terms again. Yuck!
However, tonight I switched it up a bit. Met a girl that I’ve been seeing for a while off and on and thats always fun  but instead of going home with her I decided to take a walk and catch up later. So I know what you must be thinking… Okay even I had to ask myself what the motivation  was to take a walk by myself but something said “be by yourself for a while”. Then my feet took me east, as they always seem to lately, and I walked past a long term treatment center I was in as a kid and ended up running into one of the night directors or whatever there ‘title’ is in a therapeutic community would be. Anyway started talking about Ibogaine and how nothing worked and… well you all know… the Iboagine speech.
They had never heard of it but were very interested. Especially when I threw the New York Rockefeller conspiracy in the mix. Anyway gave them Howards website and my number and they said they’d call this week. How could I ever have thought of giving this back??? An identify in junk is not something I ever want to know again. Ugh!
Maybe cuz I’ve been a dopefeind for as long as I can remember. Oh yeah, that might be it.
I don’t think I’m bad…. sick and suffering? Sure but its getting a bit better every day. Thanks for all the kind words. Going to sleep.

Sean, what time? I’LL be there but let meknow when. Saw Ken Alpert and he agrees its a good idea as well. But I tell you now, first time she picks up the phone and starts to bullshit, I’m gone.

Howard, you still under water or something? Hope all is well. -.M.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jasen,

This is starting to remind of a game we used to play when very stoned. We would try to retrace totally rambling conversations backwards to see how they started. I think you win the game.  It was you who said,”alien rape, what the fuck.”:)
ean

Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger – Communicate in real time. Download now.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 1:04:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

This is starting to remind of a game we used to play when very stoned. We would try to retrace totally rambling conversations backwards to see how they started. I think you win the game.  It was you who said,”alien rape, what the fuck.”:)

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 10, 2004 at 12:59:13 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,
Actually, where this started was I read one of the Ibo Experiences on file about a guy or girl that said they were dosed with 10 others and in their related experiences mentioned the thing about aliens.
I am pretty sure it is one of the “NEW” listings recently posted by Howard asking for feedback.Thats all.
Smiles Jasen(Aus)
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Mark

Hi Carla,

Love right back at you.  I think (not sure) but you are mixing up the threads about heroin helper.  Another silly thread has started (my fault) about alien rape. I think Preston posted that he heard some piece had been made with the woman who wrote to HH, and the whole alien thing started with one our listee reading personal experiences about ibo at ibogaine.org and saying,”alien rape, what the fuck.”
It just gets silly form there really.  I implied that I might enjoy sex with aliens, but not rape…just working my mindvox. first step I guess.:)

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 10, 2004 at 12:25:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.

I had the most difficult time last night that I’ve had since my experience more than 6 weeks ago. I guess the shock of how much I’ve changed and everything in my life being so different, mixed with all of the same life issues caught up to me last night. Maybe I was trying to find something familiar which is altogether bad for me. It took me to a place last night literally in an instant that I wish I never went.

***Wow,
***Wow Wow and double WOW,nice going Mark.I bet you would have woken up to the day feeling so much lighter that morning.
***Those friends of yours are like,…Wow,real friends.

***It was really great hearing your story.Thankyou for your guts and honesty.
*** With loving smiles and understanding .Jasen. (Aus)

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 11:41:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/9/04 11:34:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bchloej@hotmail.com writes:

My name is Faith–not sure if the question is for me.  I was able to obtain
some I for my son who’s addicted to Ocycontin,

I’m sorry, you mean he tired ibogaine?

Sean

From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 11:34:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My name is Faith–not sure if the question is for me.  I was able to obtain some I for my son who’s addicted to Ocycontin,  He said it didn’t help.  I would like to try again and am interested in finding somewhere in Canada or Mexico where I could have it sent to and go pick it up.  He’s going to the Methadone clinic but it’s not working as far as keeping him off anything else, and I need to do something.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:04:07 +1000

Thankyou Nick,
Thankyou for your time and interesting information.
May I ask,”who are you”?
Are you a patient,provider or onlooker?
With smiles Jasen.
>
> It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes
you
> feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine,
there
> is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and then
> simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual
> guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded
and
> not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you can be
> the best really.
>
> with love
>
> Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk
>

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_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeź Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Mark
Date: September 9, 2004 at 11:18:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/9/04 8:59:57 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Love right back at you.  I think (not sure) but you are mixing up the
threads
about heroin helper.  Another silly thread has started (my fault) about alien
rape. I think Preston posted that he heard some piece had been made with the
woman who wrote to HH, and the whole alien thing started with one our listee
reading personal experiences about ibo at ibogaine.org and saying,”alien
rape,
what the fuck.”
It just gets silly form there really.  I implied that I might enjoy sex with
aliens, but not rape…just working my mindvox. first step I guess.:) >>

Carla,

I am not sure if this added to some confusion or not but, Anne and the Alien
rape poster are two different individuals.  I don’t think anyone has been
making fun of either.

Howard

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 11:04:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou Nick,
Thankyou for your time and interesting information.
May I ask,”who are you”?
Are you a patient,provider or onlooker?
With smiles Jasen.

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes
you
feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine,
there
is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and then
simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual
guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded
and
not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you can be
the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] For Mark
Date: September 9, 2004 at 9:58:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,

Love right back at you.  I think (not sure) but you are mixing up the threads about heroin helper.  Another silly thread has started (my fault) about alien rape. I think Preston posted that he heard some piece had been made with the woman who wrote to HH, and the whole alien thing started with one our listee reading personal experiences about ibo at ibogaine.org and saying,”alien rape, what the fuck.”
It just gets silly form there really.  I implied that I might enjoy sex with aliens, but not rape…just working my mindvox. first step I guess.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark. (good marc)
Date: September 9, 2004 at 9:39:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marc,

I am so glad that allowed yourself to be helped.  I don’t know you very well, but being an addict and knowing a lot of them, if you really were determined to use last night you would have.  Instead you allowed our friends to help you make the right choice.

I had a heart to heart with a friend tonight and it reaffirmed what oour mutual friend Dee told me about ibogaine in the first place.  It would at best give me a break, an interruption in my use, if I were that lucky so speak.  That’s what it did for him, and then he made the changes in his life that he needed to stay clean, which he has for three years now.

Ibogaine may have given me a much needed break, but it up to me now to go the next step is keeping off crack and heroin is really what I want.  Ibogaine can’t give me that desire, no drug can really.  So I have decided to make some real changes. Because I really don’t want to go back.  I am grateful for my “interruption” in what had really just become a habit, because without that break I had just about no prospective at all.

What I’m saying is, you could use last night as wake up call that it is time for you now to really make that next step toward the life you want.  I think posting what you did is a real beginning toward that….but really it’s all up to you now.  And if you trip and screw up, which I really hope you don’t, it will still be up to you.  Like it is for me now.  I’m glad you only had to have a close call to “wake you up” stubborn me had to go all the way. 🙂  And I say good Marc because you really are doing what it seems you need to move on.  And that’s really good.  So I am glad you posted, glad you didn’t use, and my only quibble is with that bad mark part.  Maybe human Marc would be the best subject line, Imo.

Sorry I went on so long. Call me anytime, or private email if you like.  I am going into Barbara Judd’s group 2morrow, so maybe I will see you.

Pax,
Sean

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] For Mark
Date: September 9, 2004 at 8:38:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark, this good bad is silly! Hang in there and even
if something did happen then don’t let it turn your
whole head into I give up! I’ve been reading what
you’ve been going through since before you went to
Mexico. It looks like you have done a huggggge amount
of running around ever since you did ibogaine the
first time and haven’t calmed down and settled into
anything yet.

I felt like that too! The hard part is keeping it
going after all the excitement and glow isn’t there
anymore. That’s the really hard part! I’m not sure if
it was Vector or Sean or both of them who summed up
patrick’s version of the steps but that’s what I did
too 😉

Step 1 let go of sanity 😉
Step 2 just believe.

Great plan 🙂

Love to you Mark, Sean, Preston, hang in there 🙂

Carla B

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on thei site.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 8:35:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry Vector but I don’t think it’s that funny, you,
patrick, howard, will all makes jokes about it, I
don’t think that’s right. She’s a nice lady who is
upset by what happened, making fun of her or ignoring
her isn’t the answer to everything.

Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

I think there was a reply from Patrick years ago,
the owner of the site
is Dr. Moraes he’s on this list, the letter is one
version written by
Ann Ardeleno which she also put into treatment
watchdog and posts to
lists all the time. None of it ever gets resolved,
her problem is with
Howard and Bob Sisko treating her in NY a long time
ago.

She replies to mail, she sent me email months ago
replying to something
I wrote that wasn’t to her.

Her email is something like antelope, she posts all
the time to the
Drugwar list but for some reason isn’t on this one.

She has a problem with Howard and Bob, talking to
her doesn’t help
change what she has to say, there was some other
site lower east side
where she used to fill pages with her complaints,
she has some other
poetry site.

I think she needs to use the ibogaine patient
complaint form 😉

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hey list,

Has anyone ever seen the ibogaine link at heroin
helper.  It is
extremely negative. At the end it asks for
feedback from an ibogaine
expert.  not being such myself, I will not reply
to their request.
Don’t know if  any of our experts would like to
put their two cents
in.  The gist of the page is that ibogaine is not
effective, and can
be
deadly. The deadly part is supposed to be from a
dead relative of an
ibogaine patient.

I don’t know if our experts find this site
worthy of reply, but I
thought I would pass it on.

http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

Thanks,
Sean

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 8:02:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i agree.

mark=good. dealer=bad

_.dh

On Thursday, September 9, 2004, at 01:55 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Sorry Mark,

Your not allowed to call yourself bad.  That is simply self destructive.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Good Mark (wss) Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 7:55:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry Mark,

Your not allowed to call yourself bad.  That is simply self destructive.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 7:52:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/9/04 4:21:03 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<<  I will not test fate again like that because odds are I won’t be as lucky
as I was last night. >>

Mark,

If you put yourself in harm’s way eventually you will get hurt.  I am not
saying this out of any moral determination.  It is all playing the odds.  If you
play them in your favor you have better options.

Did I get that story right.  Your friends actually interceded with you to
actually cut off your dope buy? Wow!

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bad Mark.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 5:19:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had the most difficult time last night that I’ve had since my experience more than 6 weeks ago. I guess the shock of how much I’ve changed and everything in my life being so different, mixed with all of the same life issues caught up to me last night. Maybe I was trying to find something familiar which is altogether bad for me. It took me to a place last night literally in an instant that I wish I never went.
I met with a friend last night. The same friend that was treated three weeks ago himself. We got into a conversation about “the first one”. I was adamant about the first one being the one that throws a huge kink in the process and how its the first subway car that will kill you and the rest just run your ass over, kind of a thing. Anyway he said that he didn’t ‘necessarily’ believe that to be true, which in a weird way planted a seed and its not the first time I’ve had this discussion with people who disagreed. Anyway I started to go home around midnight and out of nowhere I decided instead to go and get some rice and beans before I went home.
I walked over to E103 st where I watched these two attractive innocent looking girls walk up the block and cop. Which drove me mad for some strange reason. I don’t know what happened but out of the blue I made a decision to block out every clear thought I had and go on ‘the hunt’.
I walked up to 104, and to the spot, beating the shit out of myself the whole way there but as we all know once we act on that thought nothing can stop us…. Well almost.
I made ‘the call’ and waited downstairs for him to come down and then out of the corner of my eye I see my friend and his wife come charging down the block. Crazy right? From what I hear there are Several people on the block that saw me coming up and called him. Weird right?
Now all I’m thinking now is FUCK How in the hell do I get out of this one! Caught! The two people in the world I would have wanted to keep this from most as coming to rescue my ass. It was so weird. Never in a million years have I had something like that happen stand in my way. I mean I’ve gotten busted by the cops but never by two people holding on for dear life themselves come to my aid in such a loving non judgmental way. They might have literally saved my life.
We went then and got coffee, I admitted to not being superman and fighting a little more than I let on. Still not completely understanding how I could have let it go for 30 seconds and be on the fuckin dope block. We talked for a while then I got tired and went home. Craving gone but left with a feeling of “oh shit I’m not nearly as well as I thought I was”. I’ve been saying that very unusual things have been put in my way when it comes to this kinda shit but last night took that cake! I had a very emotional night awake as well as asleep but I woke up this morning with this feeling of relief I don’t think I even had post Ibogaine. And anyone who knows me well would know had that had I woken up this morning after doing what I planned to do, there’s a good chance I would have gone on a mission to end all missions out of  sheer disgust with myself. Instead I called my sister and we met for lunch and I told her what happened which is totally new for me, and meeting with her put it all back in perspective for me.
I’ve been on a mission for 12 years.  Then I have this profound experience that saves me in so many ways but the ‘mission’ didn’t end, it just changed. I;ve been running like a nut since I left Mexico and have not stopped. Then when the mission slows down as all missions do, your forced to take a good look at yourself and most times if your running that hard its usually because your running from something and it always hit you hardest when you slow down. I’m so sick of such great highs and such nasty lows but as my sister put it the more times you make a choice to go in the other direction especially when its as memorable as last night was, the more life will level out.
Anyway thought I’d rat myself out. It took me all day to get the guts to let people know.
I’m still on the other side thank God. Thank God for the wonderful people in my life and this Iboga connection that seems to be stronger than anything else I’ve ever known.
I now know I needed what happened to happen but I also know that I will not be as lucky again. I will not test fate again like that because odds are I won’t be as lucky as I was last night.
Sorry to be the downer. -M.
>I did encounter an alien once while on mushrooms, tho. but sadly, sex
was never part of the encounter.<

I’ve had very sexual sensations on shrooms, at large dosages, but there were
never aliens involved, nor actual sex per se. Not on shrooms anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

> no aliens ever proposed sex to me on ibogaine… wah.
>
> I did encounter an alien once while on mushrooms, tho. but sadly, sex
> was never part of the encounter.
>
> On Thursday, September 9, 2004, at 06:32 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Dear Nick and Jason,
> >
> > On the patient who told of alien rape, etc., that patient was one of
> > the
> > early St. Kitts patients treated most likely when Mash et al. were
> > studying their
> > dosing procedures and that patient along with the heroin users she
> > describes
> > as experiencing withdrawal may or may not have received doses on the
> > low end.
> > Additionally, that patient was using a series of complaints on the
> > original
> > calyx ibogaine list in an attempt to have the funds paid for the
> > treatment
> > returned and may have been using the original ibogaine list to
> > pressure for such a
> > repayment with her descriptions.
> >
> > Today that patient would have the option of filing a grievance form.
> > See
> > http://www.doraweiner.org/incident.html
> >
> > The Incident/Grievance report form allows for a fair review of any
> > complaint
> > by an ibogaine patient or the reporting of an incident by a patient or
> > provider. The grievance procedure was not available at the time of
> > the patient’s
> > posts to the calyx ibogaine list on which the patient described being
> > raped by
> > aliens, etc.
> >
> > Has any ibogaine treated person reported consensual sex with aliens
> > during
> > the experience?
> >
> > Howard
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/9/04 10:23:40 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:
> >
> > << > —–Original Message—–
> >
> >> From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
> >
> >> Sent: 08 September 2004 03:22
> >
> >> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >
> >> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Dear Howard,
> >
> >> After reading these experiences,I have come to the
> >
> >> conclusion,(for me only)
> >
> >> that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done
> >> many
> >
> >> before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the
> >> Ibogaine
> >
> >> being used.(used this dose before with success)
> >
> >>
> >
> >> It scares me and excites me at the same time.
> >
> >> I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who
> >> dosed the
> >
> >> man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his
> >> treatment
> >
> >> and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin
> >
> >> addicted people who also had frightening experiences.
> >
> >> Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > Hi Jasen,
> >
> >
> > IMO, something to remember about ibogaine is that the drug will always
> > seek
> >
> > to draw you back to the bornless state the Bwiti call “Dissumba,” a
> >
> > pre-birth state, one of the features of which is the awareness that
> >
> > everything is, in fact, actually YOU. To get this done it tries to
> > take the
> >
> > shortest route, often dragging the unwilling ego through a myriad of
> >
> > seemingly appalling experiences in its efforts. Whether you actually
> > get to
> >
> > this, very healing, place of Dissumba, is partly down to you and your
> > degree
> >
> > of orientation towards or away from self-examination, and partly just
> > down
> >
> > to the way things are.
> >
> >
> > Basically, you may have numerous nightmare trips prior to reaching the
> >
> > light. Some will keep going, some will turn and run, often telling
> > stories
> >
> > of all sorts of terrors. Usually the scale of the “horror” that the
> > mind
> >
> > creates reflects the amount of repressed material the ego is seeking
> > to keep
> >
> > held down. Being raped by aliens would be a very liberating experience
> > if
> >
> > you could allow yourself to go through it, for the simple reason that,
> > at a
> >
> > deeper level of our being, there is the awareness that there is
> > nothing out
> >
> > there that isn’t actually who we are, and thus all experiences are
> >
> > ultimately merely our own dealing with ourselves. The stronger it is
> > the
> >
> > better.
> >
> >
> > Bring on the aliens, and you will get to find out how alien they
> > really are!
> >
> >
> >> Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really
> >
> >> necessary,so that
> >
> >> you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of
> >
> >> Ibogaine.
> >
> >> Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces
> >
> >> unknown by
> >
> >> us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants
> >> or
> >
> >> whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not
> >> supposed
> >
> >> to.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly
> >
> >> protected,anything may happen.
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it
> > makes you
> >
> > feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine,
> > there
> >
> > is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and
> > then
> >
> > simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual
> >
> > guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty
> > grounded and
> >
> > not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you
> > can be
> >
> > the best really.
> >
> >
> > with love
> >
> >
> > Nick www.ibogaine.co.uk
> >
> >
> >> I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that
> >> with
> >
> >> Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this
> >> in.
> >
> >> HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts
> >> in my
> >
> >> head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there
> >> that
> >
> >> are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know
> >> about or
> >
> >> heard from as yet.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am
> >> sure
> >
> >> there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do
> >> not
> >
> >> know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the
> >> providers and
> >
> >> speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed,
> >
> >> is in the
> >
> >> bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have
> >
> >> read) the
> >
> >> type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara
> >
> >> provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a
> >
> >> loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging
> >
> >> way.(I suppose
> >
> >> loving is the most important)as love encompases all the
> >
> >> others.Love for our
> >
> >> fellow human being.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we
> >> know
> >
> >> nothing about.
> >
> >> Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by
> >> the
> >
> >> appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may
> >> feel as
> >
> >> if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other
> >> types of
> >
> >> beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.
> >
> >> I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to
> >> go
> >
> >> looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the
> >
> >> patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would
> >
> >> need very
> >
> >> powerful support by someone that is always there by there
> >
> >> side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly
> >
> >> sisterly way. Smiles. Jasen.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> —– Original Message —–
> >
> >> From:
> >
> >> To:
> >
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM
> >
> >> Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>> Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine
> >
> >> experiences
> >
> >>> are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html
> >
> >>>
> >
> >>> Comments appreciated.
> >
> >>>
> >
> >>> Howard >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /
> > ]=———————————————————————
> > =[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=——————————————————————–
> > -=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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[%]
>
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>
>

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Do you Yahoo!?
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 4:05:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did encounter an alien once while on mushrooms, tho. but sadly, sex
was never part of the encounter.<

I’ve had very sexual sensations on shrooms, at large dosages, but there were
never aliens involved, nor actual sex per se. Not on shrooms anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

no aliens ever proposed sex to me on ibogaine… wah.

I did encounter an alien once while on mushrooms, tho. but sadly, sex
was never part of the encounter.

On Thursday, September 9, 2004, at 06:32 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Dear Nick and Jason,

On the patient who told of alien rape, etc., that patient was one of
the
early St. Kitts patients treated most likely when Mash et al. were
studying their
dosing procedures and that patient along with the heroin users she
describes
as experiencing withdrawal may or may not have received doses on the
low end.
Additionally, that patient was using a series of complaints on the
original
calyx ibogaine list in an attempt to have the funds paid for the
treatment
returned and may have been using the original ibogaine list to
pressure for such a
repayment with her descriptions.

Today that patient would have the option of filing a grievance form.
See
http://www.doraweiner.org/incident.html

The Incident/Grievance report form allows for a fair review of any
complaint
by an ibogaine patient or the reporting of an incident by a patient or
provider.  The grievance procedure was not available at the time of
the patient’s
posts to the calyx ibogaine list on which the patient described being
raped by
aliens, etc.

Has any ibogaine treated person reported consensual sex with aliens
during
the experience?

Howard

In a message dated 9/9/04 10:23:40 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

<< > —–Original Message—–

From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]

Sent: 08 September 2004 03:22

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Dear Howard,

After reading these experiences,I have come to the

conclusion,(for me only)

that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done
many

before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the
Ibogaine

being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.

I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who
dosed the

man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his
treatment

and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin

addicted people who also had frightening experiences.

Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Hi Jasen,

IMO, something to remember about ibogaine is that the drug will always
seek

to draw you back to the bornless state the Bwiti call “Dissumba,” a

pre-birth state, one of the features of which is the awareness that

everything is, in fact, actually YOU. To get this done it tries to
take the

shortest route, often dragging the unwilling ego through a myriad of

seemingly appalling experiences in its efforts. Whether you actually
get to

this, very healing, place of Dissumba, is partly down to you and your
degree

of orientation towards or away from self-examination, and partly just
down

to the way things are.

Basically, you may have numerous nightmare trips prior to reaching the

light. Some will keep going, some will turn and run, often telling
stories

of all sorts of terrors. Usually the scale of the “horror” that the
mind

creates reflects the amount of repressed material the ego is seeking
to keep

held down. Being raped by aliens would be a very liberating experience
if

you could allow yourself to go through it, for the simple reason that,
at a

deeper level of our being, there is the awareness that there is
nothing out

there that isn’t actually who we are, and thus all experiences are

ultimately merely our own dealing with ourselves. The stronger it is
the

better.

Bring on the aliens, and you will get to find out how alien they
really are!

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really

necessary,so that

you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of

Ibogaine.

Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces

unknown by

us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants
or

whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not
supposed

to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly

protected,anything may happen.

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it
makes you

feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine,
there

is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and
then

simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual

guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty
grounded and

not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you
can be

the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that
with

Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this
in.

HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts
in my

head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there
that

are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know
about or

heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am
sure

there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do
not

know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the
providers and

speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed,

is in the

bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have

read) the

type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara

provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a

loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging

way.(I suppose

loving is the most important)as love encompases all the

others.Love for our

fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we
know

nothing about.

Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by
the

appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may
feel as

if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other
types of

beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.

I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to
go

looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the

patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would

need very

powerful support by someone that is always there by there

side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly

sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–

From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM

Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine

experiences

are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard >>

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 2:56:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no aliens ever proposed sex to me on ibogaine… wah.

I did encounter an alien once while on mushrooms, tho. but sadly, sex was never part of the encounter.

On Thursday, September 9, 2004, at 06:32 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Dear Nick and Jason,

On the patient who told of alien rape, etc., that patient was one of the
early St. Kitts patients treated most likely when Mash et al. were studying their
dosing procedures and that patient along with the heroin users she describes
as experiencing withdrawal may or may not have received doses on the low end.
Additionally, that patient was using a series of complaints on the original
calyx ibogaine list in an attempt to have the funds paid for the treatment
returned and may have been using the original ibogaine list to pressure for such a
repayment with her descriptions.

Today that patient would have the option of filing a grievance form.  See
http://www.doraweiner.org/incident.html

The Incident/Grievance report form allows for a fair review of any complaint
by an ibogaine patient or the reporting of an incident by a patient or
provider.  The grievance procedure was not available at the time of the patient’s
posts to the calyx ibogaine list on which the patient described being raped by
aliens, etc.

Has any ibogaine treated person reported consensual sex with aliens during
the experience?

Howard

In a message dated 9/9/04 10:23:40 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

<< > —–Original Message—–

From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]

Sent: 08 September 2004 03:22

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Dear Howard,

After reading these experiences,I have come to the

conclusion,(for me only)

that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done many

before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the Ibogaine

being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.

I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who dosed the

man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his treatment

and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin

addicted people who also had frightening experiences.

Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Hi Jasen,

IMO, something to remember about ibogaine is that the drug will always seek

to draw you back to the bornless state the Bwiti call “Dissumba,” a

pre-birth state, one of the features of which is the awareness that

everything is, in fact, actually YOU. To get this done it tries to take the

shortest route, often dragging the unwilling ego through a myriad of

seemingly appalling experiences in its efforts. Whether you actually get to

this, very healing, place of Dissumba, is partly down to you and your degree

of orientation towards or away from self-examination, and partly just down

to the way things are.

Basically, you may have numerous nightmare trips prior to reaching the

light. Some will keep going, some will turn and run, often telling stories

of all sorts of terrors. Usually the scale of the “horror” that the mind

creates reflects the amount of repressed material the ego is seeking to keep

held down. Being raped by aliens would be a very liberating experience if

you could allow yourself to go through it, for the simple reason that, at a

deeper level of our being, there is the awareness that there is nothing out

there that isn’t actually who we are, and thus all experiences are

ultimately merely our own dealing with ourselves. The stronger it is the

better.

Bring on the aliens, and you will get to find out how alien they really are!

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really

necessary,so that

you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of

Ibogaine.

Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces

unknown by

us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants or

whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not supposed

to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly

protected,anything may happen.

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes you

feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine, there

is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and then

simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual

guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded and

not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you can be

the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that with

Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this in.

HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts in my

head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there that

are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know about or

heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am sure

there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do not

know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the providers and

speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed,

is in the

bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have

read) the

type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara

provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a

loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging

way.(I suppose

loving is the most important)as love encompases all the

others.Love for our

fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we know

nothing about.

Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by the

appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may feel as

if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other types of

beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.

I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to go

looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the

patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would

need very

powerful support by someone that is always there by there

side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly

sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–

From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM

Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine

experiences

are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard >>

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] America’s Turf War On Drugs- pt 1
Date: September 9, 2004 at 2:45:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for posting Preston..very informative and clearly written.  Will definitely add it to my ibogaine file.

sean

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 2:43:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/9/04 12:36:49 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Thanks for clearing this up Howard, about the alien rape business.  I was
a
little jealous that the aliens passed my ass up.  You can’t rape the willing,
and sex with aliens would be an interesting change.  Never had an alien.
Again, thanks for the clarification.:) >>

Hi Sean,

The real question is, “Has an alien ever had you?”  Cheers.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] America’s Turf War On Drugs- pt 1
Date: September 9, 2004 at 1:31:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(posted with permission)

America’s Turf War On Drugs

A little-known African shrub sparks
a major  controversy over  a drug the
United States government  just says no to.

By Guy R. Arseneau
Part 1

It is a chemical that has provoked controversy ever since it came to the
attention of industrialized countries over a century ago. A nexus for the
tangled and contradictory worlds of Politics, Science, Law, and Psychiatry,
it is a flash point of contention that sparks heated debate among supporters
and detractors alike.

The substance in question is Ibogaine and the claims made for it, along
with the legal sanctions against it, are quite simply extraordinary. Derived
from the Tabernanthe Iboga shrub indigenous to the West African nation of
Gabon, Ibogaine is chemically defined as “an indole alkaloid that binds to
various receptor sites in the brain.” Simply put, Ibogaine is believed by
many to be an adjunctive yet highly successful broad spectrum breakthrough
aid in the fight against drug addiction, often with just one treatment over
the course of a single day.

Used for hundreds of years in west-central Africa, this unusual chemical
played a variety of roles in the cultural and social lives of the Bantu
people who followed the Bwiti religion. Among the many claims made for it,
Ibogaine is credited with increasing the libido. A highly prized stimulant
used by tribesmen during long and tedious hunts, it allowed them to remain
motionless for hours as they waited for their prey. As a precursor to
psychiatry, and as part of the Bantu’s communal experience, Ibogaine was
commonly used in a teenager’s rite of passage to adulthood. Boys would often
go without sleep for as long as three days at a time after chewing on the
root of the Iboga plant.

Although currently listed by the FDA as a Schedule 1 drug, a
classification that puts it in the same league with LSD and other
hallucinogenic chemicals, Ibogaine did enjoy a brief period of
respectability in Europe at one time. French chemists, quick to realize the
stimulating effects of the plant’s chemical composition, marketed it as an
endurance aid. It figured prominently in the literary works of the day and
stayed on the open market through the late fifties, but sale of the drug to
the public has been banned in France since the early sixties.

At the present time, research scientists do not fully understand the
drug’s pharmacological dynamics. In studies on rodents, Ibogaine was
detected in their adipose, or fat tissue, for up to twelve hours after being
administered, leading some clinicians to believe it has the potential to
provide for a long-range course of action in the body. As with any drug
though, especially one with the controversial and often times contradictory
reputation of Ibogaine, there are dissenting voices in the research field.
Dr. Mark Molliver, a Johns Hopkins neurologist, claims his test results
indicate that Ibogaine, given to rats at doses far above the clinically
accepted range, produced brain damage in the cerebellum. However, no
pathology in kidney, heart, or brain tissue was discovered in rats
undergoing normal dose Ibogaine therapy for up to a month of daily
treatment.

Pharmacologists are at a loss to understand the neurochemical profile of
Ibogaine in interrupting  the intense cravings and withdrawal symptoms
associated with heroin, cocaine, alcohol, and even nicotine use. Some
scientists believe Ibogaine produces its “anti-addictive” reaction by
locking on to key receptor sites in brain tissue. As a corollary to this,
other theories hold that Ibogaine or a resulting metabolite, that is, a
by-product created as the body processes the drug , acts as an inhibitor at
neuro pathways in brain cells which have not been identified thus far as
being addictive-sensitive.

Ibogaine’s potential to be the Holy Grail in the search for a solution to
narcotics abuse has taken this drug out of the research laboratory and
intersected it with the  Alice In Wonderland worlds of law and government.
Within the two realms, one individual stands out as an iconoclastic David
against these twin Goliaths. Howard S. Lotsof, a one time film student and
native of New York City, was a nineteen year old college student in 1962 and
a self-admitted drug abuser at that time. Lotsof and his companions
routinely used psychoactive substances such as mescaline, DMT, psilocybin,
and LSD. He was also a heroin addict. Using the narcotic as often as four
times a day, he decided one day to try a new drug an acquaintance had passed
on to him. The drug was Ibogaine and the dramatic experiences he had with it
led him on a crusade that continues up to the present.

“After my thirty three hours under the influence of Ibogaine,” he says,
“I no longer felt a need for heroin or any other chemicals.” In recalling
that initial introduction to the drug a generation ago, Lotosf says, “It was
an extremely unusual event. Not long after I took the Ibogaine capsule, I
could see seven different and distinct images of myself. One  would light up
while the others dimmed. In this highly unusual process of self-discovery
and learning, I became deeply aware within my own mind as to why I used
drugs.” Although he was clean for three years, he eventually went back to
heroin but finally detoxed with methadone, since possession of Ibogaine was
illegal by the mid-sixties. Today, he is free of all drugs, including
methadone.

A self-admitted Bad Boy of the counterculture sixties, Lotsof went on to
join the Berkeley Free Speech Movement and later worked as a line producer
for Rock Against Racism concerts. In the mid-eighties he revived his
interest in the enigmatic chemical substance that freed him by sheer
accident from his heroin addiction. “To a large extent my interest in the
subject was humanitarian,” he says. Out of work for a year and on disability
due to a back injury, Lotsof began educating himself about the arcane world
of neuro-pharmacology. In 1984 he began offering Ibogaine therapy to heroin
and cocaine addicts in the Netherlands. His recovery program met with a high
degree of success until 1993, when a 26 year old woman, addicted to heroin
and undergoing Ibogaine therapy, suddenly died undergoing Lotsof’s treatment
regime.  Initially charged with practicing medicine without a license,
patient abandonment, and overdosing the individual receiving Ibogaine
therapy, Lotsof was eventually cleared of all criminal charges by the Court
of Appeals at the Hague.

Between 1985 and 1992, he took out five patents on the future usage and
applications of Ibogaine therapy. In 1992, Lotsof entered into a contractual
agreement with the University of Miami in order to pursue a legitimate venue
of Ibogaine research. Under the terms of the contract, Lotsof maintains he
was entitled to retain “all rights to and ownership of Ibogaine treatments,
including discoveries, inventions, or improvements in ways relating to the
treatment methods he developed in the Netherlands.” It was a legal move
which proved to be less than serendipitous.

The project with the University, under the guidance of Dr. Deborah Mash, a
professor  in the Neurology Department, ultimately resulted in lawsuits,
countersuits, and what some consider to be, at best, questionable business
and scientific practices.  Before this split, Mash traveled with Lotsof to
the Netherlands in January of 1993, where he showed her first hand evidence
of the dramatic effect Ibogaine had on people addicted to heroin.

During the course of her research on Ibogaine, Mash claimed she
discovered a derivative of the drug she calls “noribogaine plus.” Lotsof
amended his contract with the University, thereby allowing the institution a
share of the potential profits resulting from this find. In 1996, the
relationship between Mash, Lotsof, and the University of Miami went south.
Mash filed a suit claiming that Lotsof and the company he started in 1986,
NDA Incorporated Inc. failed to complete an application for a  patent and
that he has taken credit for inventing “noribogaine plus.” Countering her
claim, Lotsof filed a countersuit. His New York attorney, Michael Ronemus,
says, “I think Mash’s lawsuit was nothing more than an effort by her to get
out of the University of Miami’s contract with Howard.”  In his suit, Lotsof
accuses the University of Miami of allowing Mash to violate its agreement
with him when she set up her own treatment center and obtained patents for
discoveries made while studying the process he invented. Ronemus contends,
“Howard has worked on this for a number of years. He’s cited in nearly
everybody’s research, Mash is not.”

While Mash’s academic credentials as a research scientist are impressive,
her business practices, according to some, open a whole new dimension in the
realm of conflict of interest. Without informing Lotsof of her plans, Mash
and her husband, Joe Geller, a lawyer and chairman of the Dade County
Democratic Party, opened an off shore addiction treatment center, called the
Healing Visions Institute for Addiction Recovery, in the Caribbean.

In an interview, Mash was asked  about the  medications used
at this treatment center, where she serves as an advisor. “Do you give
Ibogaine, noribogaine, or Tricyclic Ibogaine Analogs to your patients?”
Taken aback by  this question she curtly replied, “Let me just stop right
there. That’s a very strange question.” Mash did go on, however, to state
that, “No noribogaine has ever been given to humans.” It may be worth noting
that the island where her clinic is located, St. Kitts,  a former British
colony,  is not subject to United States patent laws. In other interviews,
Mash has stated that her attorney/husband is simply a legal advisor to
friends of theirs who are “investors” in the project. At the exclusive
island clinic, people are treated for a week to ten days with a chemical
substance Mash claims was developed outside the range of her contractual
obligations to Lotsof or the University of Miami and constitutes a whole new
class of compounds in a quest to find, as she puts it, “a very gentle way
for an addict to detox.”

Before anyone starts burning up the phone and fax lines in
an attempt to secure Ibogaine therapy, keep several things in mind:
Ibogaine, as a general rule, is not for the financially challenged. Mash’s
therapeutic regime on St. Kitts can cost up to twenty thousand dollars.
Lotsof, currently offering Ibogaine treatment in a hospital with a full
medical back up team in Panama, charges around fifteen thousand dollars.

While Lotsof and Mash are at the epicenter of the scientific and legal
rumblings associated with Ibogaine, Eric Taub of Gainesville, Florida is the
wild card maverick in this most unusual drug war. He may also be the best
hope for those who can’t afford the prices charged by Mash and Lotsof.
Running his operation with an “Ibogaine ‘R’ Us” bargain basement philosophy,
Taub charges a high end fee of twenty five hundred dollars. If an addict is
really desperate for help, and persistent, Taub’s been known to provide
Ibogaine free of charge. The down side of the arrangement (for those
afflicted with sea sickness) is that on many occasions the treatment he
gives are in a boat in international waters, and thus not subject to the
American justice system. This is a critical issue for Taub, since possession
of Ibogaine is a felony in the United States.

“Whenever possible,” Taub says, “I like to have ex-addicts with me to help
people who are going through the Ibogaine process. They’ve been there, so
they know what the patients are experiencing.” While Taub makes no
scientific claims, he says that by his own experience he’s comes to realize
that people in their forties and fifties are more likely to experience
success with Ibogaine than those in their twenties and thirties. “Younger
people,” he observes, “just haven’t been kicked in the balls by life the way
older people have. The ones who are older usually have a lot more to lose if
they fail: jobs, family, marriage, kids. They know and appreciate what it
means to hit bottom.”

His conclusions may differ from professional researchers in a scientific
context, but one observation does seem to hold true: Gender is important in
administering a therapeutic dose of the drug. It takes a significantly
larger amount of Ibogaine, based on body weight proportion, to affect a male
than a female. While pharmacologists may speculate this is related to
estrogen and testosterone levels, Taub simply observes, “Men have a lot more
walls to break through emotionally than women do.”

As a note of caution, and mindful of the deaths that have occurred with
Ibogaine usage, he warns people not to take Ibogaine while they are under
the influence of heroin. “Ibogaine steps up the potency of heroin, that’s
why some of these people have died, I think. They went into the program and
didn’t realize they had to tell anyone they were still using hard drugs.”

For those interested in obtaining more information about the history, use,
and political fallout associated with Ibogaine, there are an extensive
number of informative sites on the world wide web:

Begin Again


http://www.cures-not-war.org/scam.html
http://ibogaine.lycaeum.org/
http://www.ibogaine.org/science.html

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 1:29:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for clearing this up Howard, about the alien rape business.  I was a little jealous that the aliens passed my ass up.  You can’t rape the willing, and sex with aliens would be an interesting change.  Never had an alien.  Again, thanks for the clarification.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on …
Date: September 9, 2004 at 1:15:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Vector,

Interesting. It would be nice if the HH site would post a rebuttal, though, instead of leaving everything exactly the way it is. It looks like that page has not been updated in several years.

BTW, why do I know the name Bob Sisko?

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on thei site.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 12:57:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

None of it ever gets resolved, her problem is with
Howard and Bob Sisko treating her in NY a long time ago.<

I’ve been informed that some sort of peace has been made.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo
negativity on thei site.

I think there was a reply from Patrick years ago, the owner of the site
is Dr. Moraes he’s on this list, the letter is one version written by
Ann Ardeleno which she also put into treatment watchdog and posts to
lists all the time. None of it ever gets resolved, her problem is with
Howard and Bob Sisko treating her in NY a long time ago.

She replies to mail, she sent me email months ago replying to something
I wrote that wasn’t to her.

Her email is something like antelope, she posts all the time to the
Drugwar list but for some reason isn’t on this one.

She has a problem with Howard and Bob, talking to her doesn’t help
change what she has to say, there was some other site lower east side
where she used to fill pages with her complaints, she has some other
poetry site.

I think she needs to use the ibogaine patient complaint form 😉

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hey list,

Has anyone ever seen the ibogaine link at heroin helper. It is
extremely negative. At the end it asks for feedback from an ibogaine
expert. not being such myself, I will not reply to their request.
Don’t know if any of our experts would like to put their two cents
in. The gist of the page is that ibogaine is not effective, and can
be
deadly. The deadly part is supposed to be from a dead relative of an
ibogaine patient.

I don’t know if our experts find this site worthy of reply, but I
thought I would pass it on.
http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

Thanks,
Sean

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 12:32:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Nick and Jason,

On the patient who told of alien rape, etc., that patient was one of the
early St. Kitts patients treated most likely when Mash et al. were studying their
dosing procedures and that patient along with the heroin users she describes
as experiencing withdrawal may or may not have received doses on the low end.
Additionally, that patient was using a series of complaints on the original
calyx ibogaine list in an attempt to have the funds paid for the treatment
returned and may have been using the original ibogaine list to pressure for such a
repayment with her descriptions.

Today that patient would have the option of filing a grievance form.  See
http://www.doraweiner.org/incident.html

The Incident/Grievance report form allows for a fair review of any complaint
by an ibogaine patient or the reporting of an incident by a patient or
provider.  The grievance procedure was not available at the time of the patient’s
posts to the calyx ibogaine list on which the patient described being raped by
aliens, etc.

Has any ibogaine treated person reported consensual sex with aliens during
the experience?

Howard

In a message dated 9/9/04 10:23:40 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

<< > —–Original Message—–

From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]

Sent: 08 September 2004 03:22

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Dear Howard,

After reading these experiences,I have come to the

conclusion,(for me only)

that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done many

before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the Ibogaine

being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.

I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who dosed the

man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his treatment

and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin

addicted people who also had frightening experiences.

Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Hi Jasen,

IMO, something to remember about ibogaine is that the drug will always seek

to draw you back to the bornless state the Bwiti call “Dissumba,” a

pre-birth state, one of the features of which is the awareness that

everything is, in fact, actually YOU. To get this done it tries to take the

shortest route, often dragging the unwilling ego through a myriad of

seemingly appalling experiences in its efforts. Whether you actually get to

this, very healing, place of Dissumba, is partly down to you and your degree

of orientation towards or away from self-examination, and partly just down

to the way things are.

Basically, you may have numerous nightmare trips prior to reaching the

light. Some will keep going, some will turn and run, often telling stories

of all sorts of terrors. Usually the scale of the “horror” that the mind

creates reflects the amount of repressed material the ego is seeking to keep

held down. Being raped by aliens would be a very liberating experience if

you could allow yourself to go through it, for the simple reason that, at a

deeper level of our being, there is the awareness that there is nothing out

there that isn’t actually who we are, and thus all experiences are

ultimately merely our own dealing with ourselves. The stronger it is the

better.

Bring on the aliens, and you will get to find out how alien they really are!

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really

necessary,so that

you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of

Ibogaine.

Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces

unknown by

us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants or

whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not supposed

to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly

protected,anything may happen.

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes you

feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine, there

is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and then

simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual

guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded and

not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you can be

the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that with

Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this in.

HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts in my

head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there that

are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know about or

heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am sure

there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do not

know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the providers and

speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed,

is in the

bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have

read) the

type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara

provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a

loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging

way.(I suppose

loving is the most important)as love encompases all the

others.Love for our

fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we know

nothing about.

Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by the

appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may feel as

if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other types of

beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.

I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to go

looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the

patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would

need very

powerful support by someone that is always there by there

side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly

sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–

From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM

Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine

experiences

are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard >>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 9, 2004 at 11:16:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 08 September 2004 03:22
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Dear Howard,
After reading these experiences,I have come to the
conclusion,(for me only)
that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done many
before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the Ibogaine
being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.
I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who dosed the
man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his treatment
and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin
addicted people who also had frightening experiences.
Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Hi Jasen,

IMO, something to remember about ibogaine is that the drug will always seek
to draw you back to the bornless state the Bwiti call “Dissumba,” a
pre-birth state, one of the features of which is the awareness that
everything is, in fact, actually YOU. To get this done it tries to take the
shortest route, often dragging the unwilling ego through a myriad of
seemingly appalling experiences in its efforts. Whether you actually get to
this, very healing, place of Dissumba, is partly down to you and your degree
of orientation towards or away from self-examination, and partly just down
to the way things are.

Basically, you may have numerous nightmare trips prior to reaching the
light. Some will keep going, some will turn and run, often telling stories
of all sorts of terrors. Usually the scale of the “horror” that the mind
creates reflects the amount of repressed material the ego is seeking to keep
held down. Being raped by aliens would be a very liberating experience if
you could allow yourself to go through it, for the simple reason that, at a
deeper level of our being, there is the awareness that there is nothing out
there that isn’t actually who we are, and thus all experiences are
ultimately merely our own dealing with ourselves. The stronger it is the
better.

Bring on the aliens, and you will get to find out how alien they really are!

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really
necessary,so that
you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of
Ibogaine.
Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces
unknown by
us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants or
whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not supposed
to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly
protected,anything may happen.

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes you
feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine, there
is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and then
simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual
guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded and
not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you can be
the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that with
Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this in.
HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts in my
head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there that
are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know about or
heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am sure
there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do not
know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the providers and
speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed,
is in the
bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have
read) the
type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara
provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a
loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging
way.(I suppose
loving is the most important)as love encompases all the
others.Love for our
fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we know
nothing about.
Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by the
appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may feel as
if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other types of
beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.
I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to go
looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the
patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would
need very
powerful support by someone that is always there by there
side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly
sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine
experiences
are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Alert on Universal Mental Health Screening
Date: September 9, 2004 at 10:30:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

EdAction
105 Peavey Road, Suite 116
Chaska, MN 55318
952-361-4931
HYPERLINK “http://edaction.org/”http://edaction.org

September 8, 2004

Alert on Universal Mental Health Screening
————————————————————————
——————————————

URGENT ALERT!!!!!
SUPPORT CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL’S AMENDMENT TO
CUT OFF FUNDS FOR UNIVERSAL
MENTAL HEALTH SCREENING

Karen R. Effrem, MD
EdAction Board of Directors

Physician and Republican Congressman Ron Paul will offer an amendment
prohibiting funding for universal mental health screening programs to
Labor/Health and Human Services/Education appropriations bill, HR 5006,
to be debated on the
US House floor on Wednesday (today) and Thursday, September 8th and 9th.
It is urgent that you call your Member of Congress and the House
leadership TODAY with your support of the Paul amendment:
•     Find your Member of Congress atHYPERLINK
“http://www.congress.org/” www.congress.org
•     House Speaker Dennis Hastert: 202-225-2976
•     House Majority Leader Tom DeLay:  202-225-5951
•     House Majority Whip Roy Blunt:  202-225-6536

EdAction strongly supports this type of amendment, as does a broad
coalition of education, family, and medical/mental health groups.  The
long list includes Eagle Forum, Concerned Women for America, the
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Gun Owners of America,
the Liberty Committee, the Alliance for Human Research Protection, the
International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology, and
Freedom 21.

Universal mental health screening and the drugging of children, as
recommended by the New Freedom Commission, needs to be stopped so that
many thousands if not millions of children will be saved from receiving
stigmatizing diagnoses that would follow them for the rest of their
lives.  America’s school children should not be medicated by expensive,
ineffective, and dangerous medications based on vague and dubious
diagnoses.

Use the following talking points. . (For more details on each of these
points, seeHYPERLINK “http://edaction.org/2004/082704.htm”
http://edaction.org/2004/082704.htm and  HYPERLINK
“http://www.edaction.org/2003/030827.htm”
http://www.edaction.org/2003/030827.htm):

1)      Parental rights are unclear or non-existent under these
screening programs. – What are the rights of youth and their parents to
refuse or opt out of this screening?  Will they face coercion and
threats of removal from school or child abuse/neglect charges if they
refuse?  How reliable are the screening instruments?  What if the
diagnosis is wrong?  How will a child or adolescent remove a
stigmatizing label from their records that could follow them the rest of
their lives? Will
parents be honestly told about the potentially severe
side effects of the medications used in treatment?

2)      Parents are already being coerced to put their children on
psychiatric medications and some children are dying because of it. –
Universal screening and the accompanying treatments recommended by the
New Freedom Commission will only increase that problem. Both Matthew
Smith and Shaina Dunkle died of medication toxicity after their parents
were coerced to place their children on drugs by the schools.  Across
the country, Patricia Weathers, the Carroll Family, the Johnston Family,
and the Salazar Family were all charged or threatened with child abuse
charges for refusing or taking their children off of psychiatric
medications.

3)      Merging screening with the academic standards required by No
Child Left Behind, as is happening in Illinois, will lead to diagnosis
for political reasons. – School mental health and violence prevention
programs funded by NCLB and government counterterrorism operations are
already using such criteria as “homophobia” and “defenders of the US
Constitution against federal government and the UN” to label school
children and US citizens as mentally unstable and violent.

4)      Mental health screening does not prevent suicide. – The U.S.
Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) recommended against screening
for suicide, saying, “USPSTF found no evidence that screening for
suicide risk reduces suicide attempts or mortality. There is limited
evidence on the accuracy of screening tools to identify suicide risk in
the primary care setting, including tools to identify those at high
risk.”  (SeeHYPERLINK “http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/05/21.html”
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/05/21.html)

5)      Mental health diagnoses are “subjective” and “social
constructions” as admitted by the authors of the diagnostic manuals
themselves.

6)      Most psychiatric medications do not work in children – Medical
textbooks, published and unpublished research, and government reports
consistently state that the long term safety and effectiveness of
antidepressants like Prozac and stimulants like Ritalin have yet to be
proven.

7)      The side effects of these medications in children are severe. –
They include suicide, violence, psychosis, cardiac (heart) toxicity,
growth suppression, and diabetes.  Several school shooters, like Eric
Harris (Columbine), Kip Kinkel (Oregon), and Jason Hoffman (San Diego)
were on antidepressants or stimulants or both at the time of their
crimes.

########################################################################
#######
EdAction is entirely user-supported. The continuation of our work is
dependent on individual contributors. EdAction is a political action
committee, not tax deductible. We promote the work of EdWatch
atHYPERLINK “http://www.edwatch.org/” http://www.edwatch.org.

If you want to ensure that our work continues, contact:
EdAction, 105 Peavey Road, Suite 116
Chaska, MN 55318, 952-361-4931HYPERLINK “http://edaction.org/”
http://edaction.org/

If you want to subscribe or unsubscribe to this EdAction e-mail service,
mail to: edaction@lakes.com. Put “subscribe”
or “unsubscribe” in the SUBJECT of the message.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on thei site.
Date: September 9, 2004 at 10:15:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think there was a reply from Patrick years ago, the owner of the site
is Dr. Moraes he’s on this list, the letter is one version written by
Ann Ardeleno which she also put into treatment watchdog and posts to
lists all the time. None of it ever gets resolved, her problem is with
Howard and Bob Sisko treating her in NY a long time ago.

She replies to mail, she sent me email months ago replying to something
I wrote that wasn’t to her.

Her email is something like antelope, she posts all the time to the
Drugwar list but for some reason isn’t on this one.

She has a problem with Howard and Bob, talking to her doesn’t help
change what she has to say, there was some other site lower east side
where she used to fill pages with her complaints, she has some other
poetry site.

I think she needs to use the ibogaine patient complaint form 😉

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hey list,

Has anyone ever seen the ibogaine link at heroin helper.  It is
extremely negative. At the end it asks for feedback from an ibogaine
expert.  not being such myself, I will not reply to their request.
Don’t know if  any of our experts would like to put their two cents
in.  The gist of the page is that ibogaine is not effective, and can
be
deadly. The deadly part is supposed to be from a dead relative of an
ibogaine patient.

I don’t know if our experts find this site worthy of reply, but I
thought I would pass it on.
http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

Thanks,
Sean

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)
Date: September 9, 2004 at 12:19:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

No, wasn’t me.  I’ve heard of a few one man fights, but not that one. I don’t know why, but Fight Club is coming to mind…the whole one man fight thing I guess.

Goodnight all,
sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)
Date: September 9, 2004 at 12:15:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou Sean,
Were you the person that told me about the one man fight here in Australia,I believe the man lives in MtIsa,you gave me his address .

If you are,do you have his number.I mailed him a letter a week ago but not sure if he got it.I wanted to talk to him on the phone but cant get his number.

With Smiles Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)

Hi jasen,

I’m glad you made the choice to express yourself as you please, not how you think others might want you to.  Your emails are very refreshingly honest and heartfelt.

Pax,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on …
Date: September 8, 2004 at 11:04:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry I got that backwards….the report is from a living relative of a dead ibo patient. Dead people don’t send emails to heroin helper…or do they???

BTW Maybe everyone is ware of this site and finds it below their dignity to respond. It says some really nasty stuff about us ibo people, though.  The name heroin helper cracks me up.  I can’t get hamburger helper out of my mind.  Heroin helper sounds like something you could add to your heroin to make it go further…all in one skillet!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] heroin helper asks for ibo expert to answer ibo negativity on thei site.
Date: September 8, 2004 at 10:56:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list,

Has anyone ever seen the ibogaine link at heroin helper.  It is extremely negative. At the end it asks for feedback from an ibogaine expert.  not being such myself, I will not reply to their request.  Don’t know if  any of our experts would like to put their two cents in.  The gist of the page is that ibogaine is not effective, and can be deadly. The deadly part is supposed to be from a dead relative of an ibogaine patient.

I don’t know if our experts find this site worthy of reply, but I thought I would pass it on. http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

Thanks,
Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Inexpensive treatment _in Toronto with holistic/music therapist
Date: September 8, 2004 at 8:47:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi group,

Just wanted to let you all know- there is a woman in
Toronto(actually, about 20km outside of Toronto) who
does affordable Ibogaine HCL treatments.  She treated
my friend with pretty awesome results- I only wish I
could have afforded to do treatment with her at the
time.  She is a music therapist, and she does Ibogaine
HCL treatments either in a hotel in Toronto, or at a
cottage up north(depending on individual preference).
She is quite affordable (<$2000 USD), and comes highly
recommended.

She is currently on vacation, but will be resuming
practice in the next couple of months.  She is pretty
selective with whom she treats, and wants to remain
relatively anonymous for the time being. She practices
‘alternative medicine’, which may or may not be
favourable with individuals in authority.  She has a
lot of experience, and is available for treatments in
either Windsor or the GTA area.

If you are interested, let me know, and I will forward
her email address.

luv and good wishes,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 7:40:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marc,

It’s raining over here across the river as well.  You post brought me back to slogging though the streets in a freezing cold November rain, trying to score dope on Avenue C. Glad I’m inside and not doing that!  Rather be inside.  Especially after my recent tour of duty over the weekend.  Hope to see you Friday. (and maybe Preston too)!

Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 7:30:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

that about sums it up. Yes, ceretainly quite the prankster.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
20X? thats POTENT.

the shamans who used this plant indigenously would chew the leaves,
making for a much less intense experience. I doubt they ever ingested
enough for a 20X experience.

5X rocked my socks.

I found the salvia spirit to be compassionate and quite the prankster.

_.dh

On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 10:45 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

> Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for
> “experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well
> I guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last
> time I’ll do that again for a long long while.
> But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you
> think that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or
> is it purely a coincidence?
>
> HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
>
> >Salvia.
> >Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no
> idea
> >that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by
> myself.
> >I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
> >is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda
> voice
> >I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted
> into
> >this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that
> molded
> >me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the
> ground
> >and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
> >this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get
> stuck
> >like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the
> >universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be
> okay.
> >I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it
> knew
> >something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the
> panic
> >subsided, I started to laugh
> > hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this
> feeling
> >that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night
> sleep.
> >Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends.
> -;o)
> >-M.
>
> Mark,
>
> Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
> description to other enthogens?
>
> Thanks
>
> Howard
>
>
> /
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 7:16:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

20X? thats POTENT.

the shamans who used this plant indigenously would chew the leaves, making for a much less intense experience. I doubt they ever ingested enough for a 20X experience.

5X rocked my socks.

I found the salvia spirit to be compassionate and quite the prankster.

_.dh

On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 10:45 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for “experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well I guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last time I’ll do that again for a long long while.
But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you think that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or is it purely a coincidence?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

>Salvia.
>Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
>that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
>I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
>is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
>I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
>this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that molded
>me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
>and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
>this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
>like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the
>universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
>I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
>something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the panic
>subsided, I started to laugh
> hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
>that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
>Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
>-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 6:53:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks. that made me feel a little better. ;o)

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I have some of that Blue Lilly stuff too, but I’m not too fond of it.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!

Nymphaea caerulea, (Blue Lotus) is often confused with Agapanthus africanus
(Blue Lily). Though the two plants look nothing alike (aside from being
blue), both Nymphaea caerulea and Agapanthus africanus are sometimes refered
to as the “blue lily”. “Blue lily” seems to be a more accurate name for
Agapanthus africanus. Nymphaea caerulea is more commonly called the “blue
lotus” or “blue water lily”. It is Nymphaea caerulea (Blue Lotus) which may
have been used in ancient Egypt as an entheogen.
Rumored to contain aporphine or apomorphine (6a-beta-aporphine-10,11-diol
[Merck]) – a dopamine agonist – as well as perhaps nuciferine
(1,2-dimethoxy-aporphine).
Isn;t this what Borroughs wrote about in Junkie ? aporphine?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 6:50:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have some of that Blue Lilly stuff too, but I’m not too fond of it.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!

Nymphaea caerulea, (Blue Lotus) is often confused with Agapanthus africanus
(Blue Lily). Though the two plants look nothing alike (aside from being
blue), both Nymphaea caerulea and Agapanthus africanus are sometimes refered
to as the “blue lily”. “Blue lily” seems to be a more accurate name for
Agapanthus africanus. Nymphaea caerulea is more commonly called the “blue
lotus” or “blue water lily”. It is Nymphaea caerulea (Blue Lotus) which may
have been used in ancient Egypt as an entheogen.
Rumored to contain aporphine or apomorphine (6a-beta-aporphine-10,11-diol
[Merck]) – a dopamine agonist – as well as perhaps nuciferine
(1,2-dimethoxy-aporphine).
Isn;t this what Borroughs wrote about in Junkie ?  aporphine?

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 6:44:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

don’t think I’d want to know what 20x is like. Yikes that was scary….kinda cool in retrospect but still pretty damn scary. Thats been my experience with a lot of things these days. ;o)

I really feel like were in fall for the first time and I’m not quite sure how to feel about it. Rain all day. We all know what these days used to be good for. What else are they good for again? No seriously I know that already but I’m sick to death of being inside. This is the first day in weeks and weeks where I was stuck somewhere all day and even if thats home its still not fun. Maybe especially not fun but I am not up for trooping around in the rain. Quit bitchin right? Sorry. -M.

Oh Preston,,, Marcus???

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
No Mark,
It was 10x extract, not 20x.
;-)))
But I don’t have any idea where you got the stuff of course, since I could
swear the feds criminalized it not so long ago. Or so I’ve been under the
impression, but apparently that’s not the case I see from looking it up
online- gosh golly I love the internet- (though it was recently criminalized
in Australia, and I don’t think it’s legal in Norway either):

http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20040805/opinion/980956.html

snip-
Proponents of salvia maintain that it isn’t addictive, yet experts caution
otherwise. “It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure
response,” said William Rusen, executive director of Cayuga Addiction
Recovery Services. “Is that where you want to go with 12- and 14-year-olds?”
Those who support the use of Salvia claim that it is a “natural herb” and
that it is non-addictive. The same arguments once were put forth regarding
marijuana. Today, the National Institute on Drug Abuse considers marijuana
an addictive substance because people have withdrawal symptoms from it —
and it works in the same area of the brain as other hallucinogens, Rusen
said.
Common sense dictates that it is unwise to allow the sale of a powerful
psychoactive substance that is subject to less regulation than bottled
water. What is particularly disturbing is that there are no laws regulating
its purchase by minors. After all, there are sound reasons why our culture
doesn’t allow eight-year-old children to drive cars on highways or make it
legal for 14-year-olds to buy cigarettes or beer.
To date, there are no state or federal laws regulating the production or
distribution of Salvia divinorum. There should be.
In 2002, a bill in the House of Representatives, HR 5607, contained wording
that regulated salvia. Unfortunately, the 107th Congress did not act on it.
Hopefully, our elected officials in Washington, D.C. — or Albany — will
take action this year.
snip-
—-
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/salvia_divinorum_action_center.htm
In 2002, the US Congress considered placing Salvia divinorum into Schedule I
of the federal Controlled Substances Act. (See CCLE archive on HR 5607).
CCLE sent key members of the US Congress our report on Salvia divinorum and
its active principle, along with letters from an array of scientists who
expressed concern that scheduling salvia divinorum would negatively impact
important research on the plant. HR 5607 failed to pass before Congress
adjourned at the end of 2002.
In 2003, two bills introduced in Oregon also failed to pass. The CCLE sent
our Salvia divinorum report to all members of the Oregon Judiciary
Committee. Both bill’s died in that committee upon adjournment.
The CCLE’s report provides accurate, balanced information about the plant,
and concludes that Salvia divinorum is not an appropriate candidate for
scheduling. The report was made possible by donations to the CCLE’s Salvia
Divinorum Defense Fund.
The CCLE report “Salvia Divinorum and its Active Principle Salvinorin A” has
been placed online. A limited number of printed copies of the report are
still available for a $20 donation to general CCLE operations. Please make a
note in the “comments” section of the form that you’d like a copy of the
Salvia report.
We encourage you to support our ongoing work aimed at protecting freedom of
thought.

If you are interested in making a major donation that would facilitate
reviving the Salvia Divinorum Action Center and the Salvia Divinorum Defense
Fund, please e-mail us.
This document provides more specific financial needs for restarting the
fund.

—-
http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_law.shtml
Salvia divinorum is uncontrolled in the United States. This means all parts
of the plant and its extracts are legal to buy, sell, cultivate, and possess
without a license or prescription. If sold as a supplement, sales must
conform to U.S. supplement laws. If sold for consumption as a food or drug,
sales are regulated by the FDA.

The federal analog act generally requires that, in order to qualify as an
analog, a substance must be chemically similar to a substance which is
federally scheduled. Salvia Divinorum is chemically quite different from
other scheduled substances and as a plant is quite unlikely to be targeted
by this act.

Selling Salvia divinorum for human consumption as a “drug” is probably
illegal in the US under the Food, Drug & Cosmetics Act and its sale as a
drug would be regulated by the FDA. Selling an unapproved drug in the US can
be prosecuted under the FD&C’s “misbranding” clause. (FD&C Section 502) The
more it is packaged and marketed as a drug (for example a 10x extract hyped
as ‘the new ecstasy’) the more likely it is to be treated as an “illegal
drug” by law enforcement agents.

The US Air Force is considering whether to include Salvia divinorum in the
list of banned drugs. See Plant could get airmen in legal hot water, Jan
2004.

California Analog Act
Under the strict California Analog Act, salvia could potentially be
prosecuted if it is sold for human consumption as a psychoactive drug.

US Federal Analogue Act
Under the Federal Analogue Act, salvia fails to meet the “chemically
similar” criteria and thus is not subject to the analogue act provisions.
However, the DEA has recently changed their view on this and now states:

“Salvia Divinorum, Salvinorin A, and Divinorin A are not listed in the
Controlled Substances Act. If sold for human consumption, Salvia may be
subject to control under the Analogue statutes because of its functional
pharmacological similarities to other CI hallucinogens like THC.”
— from DEA Diversion Salvia Page Feb 2002

However the DEA’s analysis is completely flawed. The Federal Analogue Act,
as currently understood requires that a substance be “chemically similar” to
a controlled substance not “pharmacologically similar” as the DEA suggests
in their quote. Very little is known about the pharmacology of Salvia and
there is still much unknown about the pharmacology of THC. Saying the two
are ‘pharmacologically similar’ might satisfy the paragraph II of the
Analogue Act test, but its also just wrong. Perhaps the DEA has performed
human pharamcology studies on salvinorin that they are keeping secret, but
most likely the authors of this article are just trying to use their
position to further extend the reach of their power well beyond the scope of
the law.

Salvinorin is not a chemical analog of any scheduled substance.
snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!

Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for
“experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well I
guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last time
I’ll do that again for a long long while.
But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you think
that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or is it purely
a coincidence?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

>Salvia.
>Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
>that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
>I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
>is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
>I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
>this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that
molded
>me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
>and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
>this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
>like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel l! ike the
>universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
>I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
>something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the panic
>subsided, I started to laugh
> hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
>that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
>Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
>-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 5:40:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No Mark,
It was 10x extract, not 20x.
;-)))
But I don’t have any idea where you got the stuff of course, since I could
swear the feds criminalized it not so long ago. Or so I’ve been under the
impression, but apparently that’s not the case I see from looking it up
online- gosh golly I love the internet- (though it was recently criminalized
in Australia, and I don’t think it’s legal in Norway either):

http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20040805/opinion/980956.html

snip-
Proponents of salvia maintain that it isn’t addictive, yet experts caution
otherwise. “It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure
response,” said William Rusen, executive director of Cayuga Addiction
Recovery Services. “Is that where you want to go with 12- and 14-year-olds?”
Those who support the use of Salvia claim that it is a “natural herb” and
that it is non-addictive. The same arguments once were put forth regarding
marijuana. Today, the National Institute on Drug Abuse considers marijuana
an addictive substance because people have withdrawal symptoms from it —
and it works in the same area of the brain as other hallucinogens, Rusen
said.
Common sense dictates that it is unwise to allow the sale of a powerful
psychoactive substance that is subject to less regulation than bottled
water. What is particularly disturbing is that there are no laws regulating
its purchase by minors. After all, there are sound reasons why our culture
doesn’t allow eight-year-old children to drive cars on highways or make it
legal for 14-year-olds to buy cigarettes or beer.
To date, there are no state or federal laws regulating the production or
distribution of Salvia divinorum. There should be.
In 2002, a bill in the House of Representatives, HR 5607, contained wording
that regulated salvia. Unfortunately, the 107th Congress did not act on it.
Hopefully, our elected officials in Washington, D.C. — or Albany — will
take action this year.
snip-
—-
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/salvia_divinorum_action_center.htm
In 2002, the US Congress considered placing Salvia divinorum into Schedule I
of the federal Controlled Substances Act. (See CCLE archive on HR 5607).
CCLE sent key members of the US Congress our report on Salvia divinorum and
its active principle, along with letters from an array of scientists who
expressed concern that scheduling salvia divinorum would negatively impact
important research on the plant. HR 5607 failed to pass before Congress
adjourned at the end of 2002.
In 2003, two bills introduced in Oregon also failed to pass. The CCLE sent
our Salvia divinorum report to all members of the Oregon Judiciary
Committee. Both bill’s died in that committee upon adjournment.
The CCLE’s report provides accurate, balanced information about the plant,
and concludes that Salvia divinorum is not an appropriate candidate for
scheduling. The report was made possible by donations to the CCLE’s Salvia
Divinorum Defense Fund.
The CCLE report “Salvia Divinorum and its Active Principle Salvinorin A” has
been placed online. A limited number of printed copies of the report are
still available for a $20 donation to general CCLE operations. Please make a
note in the “comments” section of the form that you’d like a copy of the
Salvia report.
We encourage you to support our ongoing work aimed at protecting freedom of
thought.

If you are interested in making a major donation that would facilitate
reviving the Salvia Divinorum Action Center and the Salvia Divinorum Defense
Fund, please e-mail us.
This document provides more specific financial needs for restarting the
fund.

—-
http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_law.shtml
Salvia divinorum is uncontrolled in the United States. This means all parts
of the plant and its extracts are legal to buy, sell, cultivate, and possess
without a license or prescription. If sold as a supplement, sales must
conform to U.S. supplement laws. If sold for consumption as a food or drug,
sales are regulated by the FDA.

The federal analog act generally requires that, in order to qualify as an
analog, a substance must be chemically similar to a substance which is
federally scheduled. Salvia Divinorum is chemically quite different from
other scheduled substances and as a plant is quite unlikely to be targeted
by this act.

Selling Salvia divinorum for human consumption as a “drug” is probably
illegal in the US under the Food, Drug & Cosmetics Act and its sale as a
drug would be regulated by the FDA. Selling an unapproved drug in the US can
be prosecuted under the FD&C’s “misbranding” clause. (FD&C Section 502) The
more it is packaged and marketed as a drug (for example a 10x extract hyped
as ‘the new ecstasy’) the more likely it is to be treated as an “illegal
drug” by law enforcement agents.

The US Air Force is considering whether to include Salvia divinorum in the
list of banned drugs. See Plant could get airmen in legal hot water, Jan
2004.

California Analog Act
Under the strict California Analog Act, salvia could potentially be
prosecuted if it is sold for human consumption as a psychoactive drug.

US Federal Analogue Act
Under the Federal Analogue Act, salvia fails to meet the “chemically
similar” criteria and thus is not subject to the analogue act provisions.
However, the DEA has recently changed their view on this and now states:

“Salvia Divinorum, Salvinorin A, and Divinorin A are not listed in the
Controlled Substances Act. If sold for human consumption, Salvia may be
subject to control under the Analogue statutes because of its functional
pharmacological similarities to other CI hallucinogens like THC.”
— from DEA Diversion Salvia Page Feb 2002

However the DEA’s analysis is completely flawed. The Federal Analogue Act,
as currently understood requires that a substance be “chemically similar” to
a controlled substance not “pharmacologically similar” as the DEA suggests
in their quote. Very little is known about the pharmacology of Salvia and
there is still much unknown about the pharmacology of THC. Saying the two
are ‘pharmacologically similar’ might satisfy the paragraph II of the
Analogue Act test, but its also just wrong. Perhaps the DEA has performed
human pharamcology studies on salvinorin that they are keeping secret, but
most likely the authors of this article are just trying to use their
position to further extend the reach of their power well beyond the scope of
the law.

Salvinorin is not a chemical analog of any scheduled substance.
snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!

Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for
“experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well I
guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last time
I’ll do that again for a long long while.
But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you think
that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or is it purely
a coincidence?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

Salvia.
Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that
molded
me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel l! ike the
universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the panic
subsided, I started to laugh
hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 5:23:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nymphaea caerulea, (Blue Lotus) is often confused with Agapanthus africanus (Blue Lily). Though the two plants look nothing alike (aside from being blue), both Nymphaea caerulea and Agapanthus africanus are sometimes refered to as the “blue lily”. “Blue lily” seems to be a more accurate name for Agapanthus africanus. Nymphaea caerulea is more commonly called the “blue lotus” or “blue water lily”. It is Nymphaea caerulea (Blue Lotus) which may have been used in ancient Egypt as an entheogen.
Rumored to contain aporphine or apomorphine (6a-beta-aporphine-10,11-diol [Merck]) – a dopamine agonist – as well as perhaps nuciferine (1,2-dimethoxy-aporphine).
Isn;t this what Borroughs wrote about in Junkie ?  aporphine?

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 4:45:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, it was the 20X extract. I wish I had known that was for “experienced” users only. Do you think I fall into that category? Well I guess when it comes to Salvia I am now. But thats probably the last time I’ll do that again for a long long while.
But strangely enough, my back hasn’t bothered me at all yet. Do you think that “pressure” and the position I held might have helped it or is it purely a coincidence?

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

>Salvia.
>Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
>that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
>I put in an empty bong as recommended but I went into it thinking this
>is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
>I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
>this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that molded
>me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
>and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
>this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
>like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the
>universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
>I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
>something. It was a bit disconcerting. Then out of nowhere as the panic
>subsided, I started to laugh
> hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
>that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
>Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
>-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves? How long did it last. Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] native americans get screwed
Date: September 8, 2004 at 4:09:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy wrote >The Native Americans got screwed worse than any screwing I’ve
ever seen and they still hold their heads up. They deserve what ever they
can get from the government. Hell, if I am not mistaken the state of NY is
still trying to change a treaty that was made years ago. Don’t let me get
started. I’ll stop but this is one of the issues that really gets to me.<

Yeah, I hear you.

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id257/pg1/

the first native americans are still here
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@nyc.rr.com) – October 18, 2000

In the United States of America there are people who are not often mentioned
when the press talks of genocide. These people were not mentioned when the
Kosovar Albanians were being expelled from their homes by Serbs, and by NATO
bombs. When the pundits speak of the treatment of civilian Chechens by
Russian military forces, these people are never remembered. Who remembers
the American Natives, the indigenous people of North America, who now make
up one percent of the US population? If the US violates its own internal
treaties, what does this say to the rest of the world?

The destruction of the indigenous peoples on these shores was near total.
For those few that remained, life became a struggle merely to survive.
Gambling and Oil have helped some tribes ‘cash in’ on being Indian, but what
about the rest? According to information at ‘Treaty Productions’ Homepage,
as of 1998, 335 000 Native Americans were homeless, (29 percent), 678 500
lived in substandard housing, (59 percent), 793 500 live in severe
over-crowding, (69 percent). Some 371 treaties were signed between the US,
and the Native American nations. Not only has the US violated every single
one of these treaties, but they continue to violate them to this day!

According to the article ‘Covert War Against the Native Americans’ by Ward
Churchill, “60 percent of all known US uranium reserves lie under Native
American Reservation lands, and another 10 to 15 percent lie under contested
treaty areas.” Nearly one third of all minable coal reserves lie under
Native American reservations, jumping up to 50 percent if the contested
treaty areas are included in the figures. 15 percent of the US reserves of
natural gas lies under the reservations, and another 15 percent lies under
the disputed treaty lands, and the same goes for oil. This is an intolerable
situation for the US government. Therefore it has taken to continuing its
long clandestine war against the American indigenous peoples.

Independent researcher Candy Hamilton compiled evidence, Churchill reports,
that since the Wounded Knee event in 1973, on the Lakota Sioux reservation
at least 342 ‘American Indian Movement’ (AIM) members and supporters have
been assassinated by death squads aligned with and supported by the FBI.
COINTELPRO operations were carried out against AIM, and other Native
American movements, creating rifts among the Native activists, locking up or
killing those who could not be shut up.

Dan Russell, in his incredible book ‘Drug War’ writes of how Native
Americans were spoken of in terms of Americanization, “as though they had
actually just come from India.” Russell recounts how Captain John Gregory
Bourke, the US Cavalry officer who once forced the surrender of Geronimo,
and who fought against Crazy Horse’s Sioux, and the Northern Cheyenne,
wrote, “to improve the condition of the Indians as tribes is simply an
impossibility . . .They must first be crushed by the overwhelming forces of
the Government, whose civilizing influences can then hope to find a free,
perhaps fruitful field of labor among the new generations, treated as
individuals, but never as tribes.”

The attitude of treating Native Americans as sub-human, even having genocide
preached and practiced upon them, has been exhibited by the least likely
people, including even L. Frank Baum, author of ‘The Wonderful Wizard of
Oz’. Baum twice demanded the complete extermination of the Sioux Nations in
editorials he wrote in his newspaper in Aberdeen, South Dakota, between
1888, and 1891.

Take a minute the next time a politician promotes some ‘socially conscious’
program to help refugees across the sea. Think about who were here on these
shores, and still remains, hidden behind disinformation, myths, and the
reservation fences.

Lots of links follow this essay at the above URL

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Preston wrote “I’d be afraid I’d be worried about how bad they got screwed
by some of my ancestors.” Did you read, Bury my heart at Wounded Knee? My
life hasn’t been the same since I did. The Native Americans got screwed
worse than any screwing I’ve ever seen and they still hold their heads up.
They deserve what ever they can get from the government. Hell, if I am not
mistaken the state of NY is still trying to change a treaty that was made
years ago. Don’t let me get started. I’ll stop but this is one of the issues
that really gets to me.            Randy

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)
Date: September 8, 2004 at 3:42:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi jasen,

I’m glad you made the choice to express yourself as you please, not how you think others might want you to.  Your emails are very refreshingly honest and heartfelt.

Pax,
Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 8, 2004 at 3:42:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As you probably read last night was pretty intense. I’ll be in touch as soon as I finish up at the office. Very unexpected. Glad your well Sean. -M.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Randy,

Good to hear your passion on this issue.  Will make a point to read the Wounded Knee book as well.   It’s amazing that we are still trying to break the very last treaties we made….oh I guess I should not be surprised!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 8, 2004 at 3:27:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Good to hear your passion on this issue.  Will make a point to read the Wounded Knee book as well.   It’s amazing that we are still trying to break the very last treaties we made….oh I guess I should not be surprised!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 8, 2004 at 3:25:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

Very good point about the ancestor screwing.  And then the “new age” movement made a good buck appropriating Native American culture.  Maybe it is wisest to head south. Or kinder anyway.

Pax,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
Date: September 8, 2004 at 3:22:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Mark,

Glad you made it safely back too.  Hope your treatment is soon.  I have found far less compulsion to go out and get high again post ibo.  Still seem to have much more “power” over the decision.  Anyway, keep posting and I am sure Ibogaine will find you.

Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
Date: September 8, 2004 at 3:14:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com

mark connors <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com> wrote:
San Francisco

>From: mcorcoran
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
>Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
>
>where do you live?
>
>mark connors wrote:With the bad news regarding
>Marc Emory I am imagining that IbogaTherapyHouse
>will be out of commission for a while. Can someone contact me privately
>about lowcost treatment options? I can’t afford to go to Mexico but I
>really
>want to do this.
>
>Sean, I lapsed over the weekend. I had to pay off a debt and found myself
>walking away very tweaked. Since then I deleted the guys number and am back
>on track with not using. Hang in there. Mark (aka ryan)
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>[%]
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>———————————
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
Date: September 8, 2004 at 2:23:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

San Francisco

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:14:48 -0700 (PDT)

where do you live?

mark connors <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com> wrote:With the bad news regarding Marc Emory I am imagining that IbogaTherapyHouse
will be out of commission for a while. Can someone contact me privately
about lowcost treatment options? I can’t afford to go to Mexico but I really
want to do this.

Sean, I lapsed over the weekend. I had to pay off a debt and found myself
walking away very tweaked. Since then I deleted the guys number and am back
on track with not using. Hang in there. Mark (aka ryan)

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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———————————
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 8, 2004 at 2:31:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston wrote “I’d be afraid I’d be worried about how bad they got screwed by some of my ancestors.” Did you read, Bury my heart at Wounded Knee? My life hasn’t been the same since I did. The Native Americans got screwed worse than any screwing I’ve ever seen and they still hold their heads up. They deserve what ever they can get from the government. Hell, if I am not mistaken the state of NY is still trying to change a treaty that was made years ago. Don’t let me get started. I’ll stop but this is one of the issues that really gets to me.            Randy

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
Date: September 8, 2004 at 2:14:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

where do you live?

mark connors <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com> wrote:
With the bad news regarding Marc Emory I am imagining that IbogaTherapyHouse
will be out of commission for a while. Can someone contact me privately
about lowcost treatment options? I can’t afford to go to Mexico but I really
want to do this.

Sean, I lapsed over the weekend. I had to pay off a debt and found myself
walking away very tweaked. Since then I deleted the guys number and am back
on track with not using. Hang in there. Mark (aka ryan)

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Inexpensive Treatment Resources
Date: September 8, 2004 at 1:52:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

With the bad news regarding Marc Emory I am imagining that IbogaTherapyHouse will be out of commission for a while. Can someone contact me privately about lowcost treatment options? I can’t afford to go to Mexico but I really want to do this.

Sean, I lapsed over the weekend. I had to pay off a debt and found myself walking away very tweaked. Since then I deleted the guys number and am back on track with not using. Hang in there. Mark (aka ryan)

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 12:44:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/8/04 11:39:59 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

Salvia.
Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea
that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself.
I put in an empty bong as recommended  but I went into it thinking this
is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice
I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into
this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that molded
me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground
and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had
this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck
like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the
universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay.
I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew
something. It was a bit disconcerting.  Then out of nowhere as the panic
subsided, I started to laugh
hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling
that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep.
Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o)
-M.

Mark,

Was it salvia leaves?  How long did it last.  Can you give a comparative
description to other enthogens?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Wow!
Date: September 8, 2004 at 12:38:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Salvia.
Preston- that was incredibly cool but also incredibly scary. Had no idea that it would be so fuckin intense. I’m so glad I didn’t do it by myself. I put in an empty bong as recommended  but I went into it thinking this is not a big deal. Then a minute out in that slow “I’m going” kinda voice I said “Oh I’m really feeling this” and then boom I was catapulted into this totally different realm. Lights off… I felt this pressure that molded me into the shape of the chair I was sitting in and then I left the ground and started to spin backwards up into some other dimension. Then I had this immediate feeling of “this is way too intense I hope I don’t get stuck like this” feeling. The music I was listening to made me feel like the universe was playing a bit of a practical joke on me but that I’d be okay. I felt like the music was toying with me if that makes sense, like it knew something. It was a bit disconcerting.  Then out of nowhere as the panic subsided, I started to laugh hysterically and I think I just laughed it off, and then got this feeling that you get after shrooms and I laid down and got a great night sleep. Talk about being stripped of your ego! Sacred plants are our friends. -;o) -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>You know Sean,
sometomes when I talk of
love and things such as this,
I often think of the ridicule I might receive,
such as,what a dick, or this bloke thinks
that he is enlightened or other types
of ridicule.In the past it has stopped me from
talking from my heart.Until one day I thought,
No,..fuck it,I will be and say what I am thinking
or feeling without fear of ridicule.I am a normal man like
most men,nothing more and nothing less.<

I don’t know how “normal” you are Jasen, but you are correct, at least in my
own take on things, that you certain do not have to not speak your feelings
about love and such because of worries about what others might think. I’m
glad you’ve not let that sort of thing stop you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)

Hey Sean,
Something that helps me to feel calmer and more at ease is
magnesium,it really works wonders.Also sometimes when I get flushes and
drink about 1/2 a litre of water it also helps.

Nothing does it like the gear, I know,..especially for the emotional
pains,however what we eat and drink REALLY has a big big difference.I am
sure you are already aware of this,however like my very much loved sister
often does,is to remind us of things we already know.
Sending some love your way. with smiles Jasen.

P.S You know Sean,
sometomes when I talk of
love and things such as this,
I often think of the ridicule I might receive,
such as,what a dick, or this bloke thinks
that he is enlightened or other types
of ridicule.In the past it has stopped me from
talking from my heart.Until one day I thought,
No,..fuck it,I will be and say what I am thinking
or feeling without fear of ridicule.I am a normal man like
most men,nothing more and nothing less.If we cannot
express love and understanding then how can we
ever expect to receive it.I feel you can handle it
and only receive things such as this with heartfelt
gratitude. Rambling on. Jasen. 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jasen,

Thanks for the prayers. I may be a non theist, but I never refuse a warm
positive thought in my direction.

Tuesday, still clean and all that. Didn’t go to work today though. Still
have massive physical/emotional hangover. Plan to get back to work
tomorrow. If I want to keep the job I don’t have much choice.

Thanks again to everyone for your supportive posts.

Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)
Date: September 8, 2004 at 11:41:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know Sean,
sometomes when I talk of
love and things such as this,
I often think of the ridicule I might receive,
such as,what a dick, or this bloke thinks
that he is enlightened or other types
of ridicule.In the past it has stopped me from
talking from my heart.Until one day I thought,
No,..fuck it,I will be and say what I am thinking
or feeling without fear of ridicule.I am a normal man like
most men,nothing more and nothing less.<

I don’t know how “normal” you are Jasen, but you are correct, at least in my
own take on things, that you certain do not have to not speak your feelings
about love and such because of worries about what others might think. I’m
glad you’ve not let that sort of thing stop you.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)

Hey Sean,
Something that helps me to feel calmer and more at ease is
magnesium,it really works wonders.Also sometimes when I get flushes and
drink about 1/2 a litre of water it also helps.

Nothing does it like the gear, I know,..especially for the emotional
pains,however what we eat and drink REALLY has a big big difference.I am
sure you are already aware of this,however like my very much loved sister
often does,is to remind us of things we already know.
Sending some love your way. with smiles Jasen.

P.S You know Sean,
sometomes when I talk of
love and things such as this,
I often think of the ridicule I might receive,
such as,what a dick, or this bloke thinks
that he is enlightened or other types
of ridicule.In the past it has stopped me from
talking from my heart.Until one day I thought,
No,..fuck it,I will be and say what I am thinking
or feeling without fear of ridicule.I am a normal man like
most men,nothing more and nothing less.If we cannot
express love and understanding then how can we
ever expect to receive it.I feel you can handle it
and only receive things such as this with heartfelt
gratitude.          Rambling on. Jasen. 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jasen,

Thanks for the prayers.  I may be a non theist, but I never refuse a warm
positive thought in my direction.

Tuesday, still clean and all that.  Didn’t go to work today though.  Still
have massive physical/emotional hangover.  Plan to get back to work
tomorrow. If I want to keep the job I don’t have much choice.

Thanks again to everyone for your supportive posts.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 8, 2004 at 11:35:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After reading some accounts form the initiated in Africa, I would have to
agree with you Preston.  Sounds pretty scary actually.  I have read much
sweeter accounts of Westerners in South America in Shaman’s Drum Magazine <

yeah, the whole “made us dance until we puked” thing in some accounts I’ve
read about Westerners in Africa were not appealing to me Sean- hence my
intial “I don wanna do that” reaction. But I have read much more “sweet”
descriptions of South American experiences.
I hadn’t actually considered doing shroom with North American natives,
but then I’m not entirely sure I would want to do that- in that I’d be very
worried I’d focus on how badly they’ve been screwed by my ancestors, which
in turn might seriously affect my trip.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

After reading some accounts form the initiated in Africa, I would have to
agree with you Preston.  Sounds pretty scary actually.  I have read much
sweeter accounts of Westerners in South America in Shaman’s Drum Magazine Of
course I guess one could experience mushrooms with our own North American
indigenous people.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [ibogaine] Fw: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew Byrne.
Date: September 8, 2004 at 11:30:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A reply concerning my question about “mandated treatment for pot figures”
from the distinguished Andrew Byrne below.

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew
Byrne.

Interesting point, Preston.  Unlike the USA, in Australia this has not
been a substantial cause for referrals until VERY recently, and then
mostly for public transport workers after a big Sydney train crash a
couple of years back raised the issue (and the ‘nonsense’, too).   Hence
those seeking treatment (and almost a thousand called the NDARC the
first time that they placed ads in the press looking for subjects
wishing to cut down/out cannabis smoking) are mostly either frustrated
by the finances or the effects of the drug itself.  Sounds intriguing to
me, too.

AB ..

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 8, 2004 at 4:20:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 08 September 2004 03:22
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Dear Howard,
After reading these experiences,I have come to the
conclusion,(for me only)
that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done many
before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the Ibogaine
being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.
I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who dosed the
man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his treatment
and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin
addicted people who also had frightening experiences.
Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Hi Jasen,

IMO, something to remember about ibogaine is that the drug will always seek
to draw you back to the bornless state the Bwiti call “Dissumba,” a
pre-birth state, one of the features of which is the awareness that
everything is, in fact, actually YOU. To get this done it tries to take the
shortest route, often dragging the unwilling ego through a myriad of
seemingly appalling experiences in its efforts. Whether you actually get to
this, very healing, place of Dissumba, is partly down to you and your degree
of orientation towards or away from self-examination, and partly just down
to the way things are.

Basically, you may have numerous nightmare trips prior to reaching the
light. Some will keep going, some will turn and run, often telling stories
of all sorts of terrors. Usually the scale of the “horror” that the mind
creates reflects the amount of repressed material the ego is seeking to keep
held down. Being raped by aliens would be a very liberating experience if
you could allow yourself to go through it, for the simple reason that, at a
deeper level of our being, there is the awareness that there is nothing out
there that isn’t actually who we are, and thus all experiences are
ultimately merely our own dealing with ourselves. The stronger it is the
better.

Bring on the aliens, and you will get to find out how alien they really are!

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really
necessary,so that
you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of
Ibogaine.
Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces
unknown by
us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants or
whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not supposed
to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly
protected,anything may happen.

It’s totally fine to deal in spiritual terms if you have to, if it makes you
feel more safe and more comfortable. However, certainly with ibogaine, there
is, IMO, no need. For me, the best approach is to admit the fear, and then
simply resolve to move through it. If you need to take on a “spiritual
guide,” or are attracted to do so, try and get one who’s pretty grounded and
not living in some fantasy somewhere. A friend to sit just with you can be
the best really.

with love

Nick    www.ibogaine.co.uk

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that with
Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this in.
HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts in my
head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there that
are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know about or
heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am sure
there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do not
know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the providers and
speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed,
is in the
bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have
read) the
type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara
provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a
loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging
way.(I suppose
loving is the most important)as love encompases all the
others.Love for our
fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we know
nothing about.
Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by the
appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may feel as
if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other types of
beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.
I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to go
looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the
patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would
need very
powerful support by someone that is always there by there
side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly
sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine
experiences
are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN:):):):):):):):):):)
Date: September 7, 2004 at 11:40:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean,
Something that helps me to feel calmer and more at ease is
magnesium,it really works wonders.Also sometimes when I get flushes and drink about 1/2 a litre of water it also helps.

Nothing does it like the gear, I know,..especially for the emotional pains,however what we eat and drink REALLY has a big big difference.I am sure you are already aware of this,however like my very much loved sister often does,is to remind us of things we already know.
Sending some love your way. with smiles Jasen.

P.S You know Sean,
sometomes when I talk of
love and things such as this,
I often think of the ridicule I might receive,
such as,what a dick, or this bloke thinks
that he is enlightened or other types
of ridicule.In the past it has stopped me from
talking from my heart.Until one day I thought,
No,..fuck it,I will be and say what I am thinking
or feeling without fear of ridicule.I am a normal man like
most men,nothing more and nothing less.If we cannot
express love and understanding then how can we
ever expect to receive it.I feel you can handle it
and only receive things such as this with heartfelt
gratitude.          Rambling on. Jasen. 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jasen,

Thanks for the prayers.  I may be a non theist, but I never refuse a warm positive thought in my direction.

Tuesday, still clean and all that.  Didn’t go to work today though.  Still have massive physical/emotional hangover.  Plan to get back to work tomorrow. If I want to keep the job I don’t have much choice.

Thanks again to everyone for your supportive posts.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports (darn spell checker again)
Date: September 7, 2004 at 10:49:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BTW The question mark was a typo.  May our time come real soon period.  Amen

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 7, 2004 at 10:48:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was good to reread your reports at ibogine.org.  Thanks for posting them Howard!

As for myself, I am doing much better.  Thanks to all who sent their supportive emails.  Interestingly my desire to stay clean of H and crack has never been stronger. I really have a deep down yearning for life without these drugs…been years since I felt this way.

Yes, ibogaine was a tool for change.  But now I see that ibogaine could not give me the desire to really change my life, only I could do that.  the interruption in crack smoking helped, but the desire to stay clean has to come form me.

Funny, but today the colors of nature seemed sharper, the world seemed more beautiful.  I took the advice of many here and ate healthier.  Oh yeah, and I went back on my anti depressants.:)

This list rocks! Thanks again every body.  And here is a positive thought for all still waiting for the ibogaine experience.  May our time come real soon?

Peace out!
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 7, 2004 at 10:40:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After reading some accounts form the initiated in Africa, I would have to agree with you Preston.  Sounds pretty scary actually.  I have read much sweeter accounts of Westerners in South America in Shaman’s Drum Magazine Of course I guess one could experience mushrooms with our own North American indigenous people.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 7, 2004 at 10:26:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen wrote >Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really
necessary,so that
you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of
Ibogaine.<

Not in my own case. That would irritate the hell outta me, speaking
personally of course, having some other culture impose their own views onto
my trip. Yuck…um, well, maybe. Not always, in that I’d love to go to
Mexico and Peru and do ayahuasca and peyote with the natives, so I guess I
wouldn’t mind it in certain circumstances. But I don’t personally feel that
“initiation” is necessary Jasen.

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Dear Howard,
After reading these experiences,I have come to the conclusion,(for me
only)
that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done many
before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the Ibogaine
being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.
I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who dosed the
man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his treatment
and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin
addicted people who also had frightening experiences.
Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really necessary,so
that
you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of
Ibogaine.
Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces unknown
by
us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants or
whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not supposed
to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly
protected,anything may happen.

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that with
Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this in.
HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts in my
head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there that
are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know about or
heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am sure
there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do not
know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the providers and
speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed, is in
the
bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have read)
the
type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara
provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a
loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging way.(I
suppose
loving is the most important)as love encompases all the others.Love for
our
fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we know
nothing about.
Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by the
appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may feel as
if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other types of
beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.
I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to go
looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the
patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would need
very
powerful support by someone that is always there by there
side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly
sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine
experiences
are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 7, 2004 at 10:22:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard,
After reading these experiences,I have come to the conclusion,(for me only)
that the best way to do this treatment is with someone that has done many
before,and with someone that knows the type and strength of the Ibogaine
being used.(used this dose before with success)

It scares me and excites me at the same time.
I know you probably can’t tell me however would love to know who dosed the
man with the alcohol addiction.The man that paid $10,000 for his treatment
and was not happy with his providers at all.Also dosed with 10 heroin
addicted people who also had frightening experiences.
Raped by aliens,..I mean fuck…..,what’s that about?

Maybe the initiations done by the African tribe are really necessary,so that
you are protected by guides or whoever,whilst under the influence of
Ibogaine.
Maybe,…I am thinking,..that the Ibogaine opens us up to forces unknown by
us humans at this time,and unless we are protected by certain chants or
whatever then we have a chance of letting things in that are not supposed
to.

It sounds like Ibogaine opens up our spirit and if we are not properly
protected,anything may happen.

I like the idea of Sara being a spiritual Shaman Healer,I feel that with
Sara or the African tribe,it would be a safer environment to do this in.
HEY,..I am probably way off base here,however they are the thoughts in my
head at this time.I am sure there are also other providers out there that
are just as good as the African tribe and Sara that I don’t know about or
heard from as yet.

I have read and reread many of the articles on this treatment.I am sure
there is still a lot I have not read and still many things that I do not
know at this moment in time. Yes,..I should ring some of the providers and
speak to them in person.I will do this. as soon the money needed, is in the
bank(applied for a loan).I feel that Sara provides(by what I have read) the
type of environment that is conducive to healing.It sounds like Sara
provides the type of environment that nourishes our spirit,in a
loving,caring understanding and most importantly non judging way.(I suppose
loving is the most important)as love encompases all the others.Love for our
fellow human  being.

I mean…Hey,…there’s so much out there in the spirit world that we know
nothing about.
Maybe whilst being open to enlightenment unless we are protected by the
appropriate guides whilst under the influence of this plant,we may feel as
if we are being raped by unknown forces,..other dimensions,other types of
beings. I know most of this is like far-out but they are my thoughts.
I was shocked to read that in one of these places the patient had to go
looking for his sitter,I mean this is a very vulnerable time for the
patient,probably the most he or she will live through, they would need very
powerful support by someone that is always there by there
side,compassionate,understanding,..and most of all love in a brotherly
sisterly way.                                        Smiles. Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine
experiences
are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew Byrne.
Date: September 7, 2004 at 9:36:51 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even ignoring the DSM criteria, the extent of the problem is shown
by the numbers seeking treatment in Australia which, Dr Copeland told
us, have tripled in a decade.<

ARGH!
What about those figures showing how many of those youngsters “seeking”
treatment were mandated there, either by police, courts, schools and
parents? Egad.

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew Byrne.

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:16 PM
Subject: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew Byrne.

Concord Dependency Seminar. Tuesday 10/08/2004 Chair Dr Ray Seidler
“Cannabis interventions in dual diagnosis and opioid dependent patients”
Dr Jan Copeland and Ms Etty Matalon, NDARC, UNSW.

This seminar raised issues that we face every day in our practices
regarding behavioural change associated with drug use. Although the
worst consequences of cannabis pale in comparison with alcohol and other
drugs, it is still a widely used drug which many perceive to be a major
problem in their lives.

Dr Copeland began by giving an overview of the use of cannabis in the
Australian community. The best figures come from household studies
showing that about a third of Australians have ever used cannabis and
about one in six young people aged 14-19 are daily smokers of the drug.
Hospital admission details show that while rare in the over 50s,
cannabis use problems were commonly reported on admission in the younger
age groups. We were told that up to 31.7% of ‘current users’ met
criteria for DSM IV cannabis use disorder and 21% for dependence on the
drug. Even ignoring the DSM criteria, the extent of the problem is shown
by the numbers seeking treatment in Australia which, Dr Copeland told
us, have tripled in a decade.

Of a large sample of Australian heroin injectors, 40% had current
cannabis dependence diagnosis, being almost as common as anxiety
disorder (51%) and alcohol problems (49%). US findings were similar but
one wonders if the patients were prescribed adequate doses of methadone
where the mean daily dose should be over 70mg and possibly higher.

We were reminded that cannabis smoke was more potent than tobacco smoke
in some respects, although much less in quantity is consumed by the
average cannabis smoker. There is thus a potential for causing or
exacerbating cancer, asthma, bronchitis, etcetera. UNSW surveys show
that nearly all the cannabis used in Australia is smoked, even though
oral absorption was possible, it was often delayed and unpredictable.
New methods of delivery were being developed using sprays or
‘super-heated’ rather than burned material from the cannabis sativa
plant. High potency forms of the drug such as hashish resin or oil
contain high concentrations of the active ingredients, the main one
being tetra-hydro cannabinol (THC). Paradoxically, they may therefore be
less harmful in some respects, having fewer impurities. Various street
myths about cannabis were discussed, especially regarding drug delivery,
absorption, deep breaths, bongs (dry and wet varieties), etcetera.

Even in those who are not yet intent on quitting, Dr Copeland said that
there was much useful advice to give people to reduce the harms from
cannabis use. They should be advised not to use bongs, especially of the
‘dry’ variety. They should be taught that it is illogical to inhale
deeply and keep the breath for as long as possible, as is often
practised. They should probably avoid leaves, stems and seeds … and just
use the high concentration ‘heads’ of the cannabis plant. This results
in a higher concentration of THC and thus a lower amount of exposure to
CO, tars, soot, etc for the given amount of intoxicant. Mixing cannabis
with tobacco was probably unwise although the practice is almost
universal, at least in Sydney. [I wonder if it is true that Melbourne
practice is more commonly to smoke straight cannabis without added
tobacco.]

Next Etty Matalon showed us a number of impressive, professional
publications, some aimed at patients, others at health care workers to
use in formal treatment programs. One was a self-help explanatory
program aimed at assisting those who are ready to quit. Another
contained a step by step program of implementing goals towards lasting
change in those prepared for a more formal series of face to face
interventions. The programs dealt with drug use cues, drug diary
entries, choosing dates for change, writing up pros and cons of drug
use, discussing all of the above, etc. Depression was raised on numerous
occasions as needing to be seriously addressed in those trying to quit
cannabis, meaning both drug and non-drug approaches need to be
considered. These interventions would be ideal in general practice and
some could be initiated in pharmacies, methadone clinics or needle
outreach services.

These hand-outs are available at modest cost to practitioners. Contact
Dr Jan Copeland J.Copeland@unsw.edu.au for details.

Like all drugs, cannabis may have good and bad effects. Hence, although
it was not part of the evening’s ‘main feature’, I include a recent
newspaper report from Dr Copeland’s own research centre (NDARC). They
found that nearly two-thirds of people using cannabis for medical
reasons had decreased or stopped taking other medications. Participants
also reported that cannabis was useful in preventing side effects caused
by conventional medicines. The most common medical conditions the
cannabis users suffered were arthritis, chronic pain, depression,
nausea, muscle spasms and weight loss. Up to 70 per cent of those using
‘medical cannabis’ would be willing to be involved in a trial of an
alternative form of cannabis, such as a spray, according to their
survey. Last year NSW Premier Bob Carr announced a trial of possible
therapeutic benefits of cannabis. The NDARC survey was a recommendation
of the working party on the medical use of cannabis. [To participate in
the mail-out survey, contact the National Drug and Alcohol Research
Centre on 9385 0333 or email Peter Gates at p.gates@unsw.edu.au].

In another item from London, Wolff, Winstock (yes, our own ‘Adam’, from
Bankstown) and co-workers in an SSA conference abstract published in
Addiction Biology, March issue, gave the results of self-report
questionnaires given to 337 multiple sclerosis patients in three English
hospitals (2 London, one county). With a 75% response rate, almost half
had used cannabis at some point and about one in five used the drug
monthly. Only four (4%) of the 110 who had ever used cannabis developed
increased weakness while one (1%) reported hallucinations. Almost three
quarters stated that they would try the drug if it were legal. It would
appear to have benefits for certain patients and a low side-effect
profile. Yet dependence develops in a proportion and the dangers of
smoked products are ever-present, each limiting the usefulness of
therapeutic cannabis at present.

It is intriguing that tincture of cannabis was very widely prescribed in
Australia prior to the current prohibitions of the 1950s. I could find
no reports of ill-effects or dependence.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew Byrne.
Date: September 7, 2004 at 9:05:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:16 PM
Subject: Concord cannabis seminar – summary by Andrew Byrne.

Concord Dependency Seminar. Tuesday 10/08/2004 Chair Dr Ray Seidler
“Cannabis interventions in dual diagnosis and opioid dependent patients”
Dr Jan Copeland and Ms Etty Matalon, NDARC, UNSW.

This seminar raised issues that we face every day in our practices
regarding behavioural change associated with drug use. Although the
worst consequences of cannabis pale in comparison with alcohol and other
drugs, it is still a widely used drug which many perceive to be a major
problem in their lives.

Dr Copeland began by giving an overview of the use of cannabis in the
Australian community. The best figures come from household studies
showing that about a third of Australians have ever used cannabis and
about one in six young people aged 14-19 are daily smokers of the drug.
Hospital admission details show that while rare in the over 50s,
cannabis use problems were commonly reported on admission in the younger
age groups. We were told that up to 31.7% of ‘current users’ met
criteria for DSM IV cannabis use disorder and 21% for dependence on the
drug. Even ignoring the DSM criteria, the extent of the problem is shown
by the numbers seeking treatment in Australia which, Dr Copeland told
us, have tripled in a decade.

Of a large sample of Australian heroin injectors, 40% had current
cannabis dependence diagnosis, being almost as common as anxiety
disorder (51%) and alcohol problems (49%). US findings were similar but
one wonders if the patients were prescribed adequate doses of methadone
where the mean daily dose should be over 70mg and possibly higher.

We were reminded that cannabis smoke was more potent than tobacco smoke
in some respects, although much less in quantity is consumed by the
average cannabis smoker. There is thus a potential for causing or
exacerbating cancer, asthma, bronchitis, etcetera. UNSW surveys show
that nearly all the cannabis used in Australia is smoked, even though
oral absorption was possible, it was often delayed and unpredictable.
New methods of delivery were being developed using sprays or
‘super-heated’ rather than burned material from the cannabis sativa
plant. High potency forms of the drug such as hashish resin or oil
contain high concentrations of the active ingredients, the main one
being tetra-hydro cannabinol (THC). Paradoxically, they may therefore be
less harmful in some respects, having fewer impurities. Various street
myths about cannabis were discussed, especially regarding drug delivery,
absorption, deep breaths, bongs (dry and wet varieties), etcetera.

Even in those who are not yet intent on quitting, Dr Copeland said that
there was much useful advice to give people to reduce the harms from
cannabis use. They should be advised not to use bongs, especially of the
‘dry’ variety. They should be taught that it is illogical to inhale
deeply and keep the breath for as long as possible, as is often
practised. They should probably avoid leaves, stems and seeds … and just
use the high concentration ‘heads’ of the cannabis plant. This results
in a higher concentration of THC and thus a lower amount of exposure to
CO, tars, soot, etc for the given amount of intoxicant. Mixing cannabis
with tobacco was probably unwise although the practice is almost
universal, at least in Sydney. [I wonder if it is true that Melbourne
practice is more commonly to smoke straight cannabis without added
tobacco.]

Next Etty Matalon showed us a number of impressive, professional
publications, some aimed at patients, others at health care workers to
use in formal treatment programs. One was a self-help explanatory
program aimed at assisting those who are ready to quit. Another
contained a step by step program of implementing goals towards lasting
change in those prepared for a more formal series of face to face
interventions. The programs dealt with drug use cues, drug diary
entries, choosing dates for change, writing up pros and cons of drug
use, discussing all of the above, etc. Depression was raised on numerous
occasions as needing to be seriously addressed in those trying to quit
cannabis, meaning both drug and non-drug approaches need to be
considered. These interventions would be ideal in general practice and
some could be initiated in pharmacies, methadone clinics or needle
outreach services.

These hand-outs are available at modest cost to practitioners. Contact
Dr Jan Copeland J.Copeland@unsw.edu.au for details.

Like all drugs, cannabis may have good and bad effects. Hence, although
it was not part of the evening’s ‘main feature’, I include a recent
newspaper report from Dr Copeland’s own research centre (NDARC). They
found that nearly two-thirds of people using cannabis for medical
reasons had decreased or stopped taking other medications. Participants
also reported that cannabis was useful in preventing side effects caused
by conventional medicines. The most common medical conditions the
cannabis users suffered were arthritis, chronic pain, depression,
nausea, muscle spasms and weight loss. Up to 70 per cent of those using
‘medical cannabis’ would be willing to be involved in a trial of an
alternative form of cannabis, such as a spray, according to their
survey. Last year NSW Premier Bob Carr announced a trial of possible
therapeutic benefits of cannabis. The NDARC survey was a recommendation
of the working party on the medical use of cannabis. [To participate in
the mail-out survey, contact the National Drug and Alcohol Research
Centre on 9385 0333 or email Peter Gates at p.gates@unsw.edu.au].

In another item from London, Wolff, Winstock (yes, our own ‘Adam’, from
Bankstown) and co-workers in an SSA conference abstract published in
Addiction Biology, March issue, gave the results of self-report
questionnaires given to 337 multiple sclerosis patients in three English
hospitals (2 London, one county). With a 75% response rate, almost half
had used cannabis at some point and about one in five used the drug
monthly. Only four (4%) of the 110 who had ever used cannabis developed
increased weakness while one (1%) reported hallucinations. Almost three
quarters stated that they would try the drug if it were legal. It would
appear to have benefits for certain patients and a low side-effect
profile. Yet dependence develops in a proportion and the dangers of
smoked products are ever-present, each limiting the usefulness of
therapeutic cannabis at present.

It is intriguing that tincture of cannabis was very widely prescribed in
Australia prior to the current prohibitions of the 1950s. I could find
no reports of ill-effects or dependence.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

<]=———————————————————————–=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-          |
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com             |
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format: drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 7, 2004 at 8:26:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very well said. Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean. I am sorry for your feeling so bad, but this is exactly the reason I keep stating Ibogaine should not be approached as a tool for getting off drugs. Look man, you didn’t fail!! All therapies or treatments are tools to learn about one’s self. Ibogaine is just that, another tool. If you manage to get off drugs and stay off them-GREAT! If you don’t -GREAT!! Every treatment I have experienced has also claimed to be the answer. There is NO ANSWER man. The idea is to discover what it is that allows you to commit to an action that either is self destructive or just something you don’t want to do anymore but still do it! Sean, this is not an opinion of mine. As arrogant as this will sound, it is the truth! There is no answer and never will be one. You are the answer my friend! After you learn about yourself, you become the treatment to specifically stop eating, drug taking, spending money you don’t have, whatever!

Don’t you see? If you take the approach that if you do plan A, you will go clean from drugs, and you do not stop, you set yourself up for feeling as a failure! Exactly what you said!!! Another attempt at this that failed! No man, that’s not what it is. You succeeded just fine. The only thing that you mixed up is what your goals should have been identified as. Learning Process!! Gaining insight! That I know you have done! You must keep on learning and as you learn about one thing in your life it is then that you can even consider changing your behavior so extremely. Look, you went quite a while without getting high on crack. All of us know that is one bitch of a task with that drug. You said you felt like doing it a week after…you didn’t! So you did last night, big fucking deal! You know moderation is change and that you have accomplished. I would continue on your path and keep learning about what motivates you to continue doing things that you feel are killing you even though you have chosen to continue living!! That my friend is what your goal is!! The same as mine. Why do I do things that are so self destructive when I no longer wish to be that way. I WANT TO FUCKING LIVE MAN!!!  You will Sean! You will………….

The best man,

Julian

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] off list report
Date: September 7, 2004 at 5:53:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh… mine in the middle “new” one. methadone.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up.:)  Maybe will catch up with each other later tonight.

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: off list/your report
Date: September 7, 2004 at 5:52:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a compilation of rants…. thanks howard!

Note: forwarded message attached.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: off list/your report
Date: September 5, 2004 at 10:38:00 PM EDT
To: mcorcoran27@yahoo.com

Mark,

Check out your diary I posted to the Ibogaine Dossier.

http://www.ibogaine.org/treatment.html

Any comments appreciated.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 7, 2004 at 4:03:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

Don’t beat yourself up.:)  Maybe will catch up with each other later tonight.

Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 7, 2004 at 3:54:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I suck. I fell asleep last night at 8:30 and didn’t wake up till after 4:00. I’m back at work but I’ll call you later. Hope all is well and look forward to speaking with you. -M.

BTW- I need Marcus’s email address. Preston… Anyone?

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Preston,

Glad you didn’t give in to the thoughts!  Also glad you are learning other ways to deal with your pain. Chronic pain, I have learned from you and others on this list, sounds like a bitch to live with.  But you are doing it.  Without the bag and rig.

Thanks again for the support!

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 7, 2004 at 2:20:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

Thanks for the prayers.  I may be a non theist, but I never refuse a warm positive thought in my direction.

Tuesday, still clean and all that.  Didn’t go to work today though.  Still have massive physical/emotional hangover.  Plan to get back to work tomorrow. If I want to keep the job I don’t have much choice.

Thanks again to everyone for your supportive posts.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Ibogaine story
Date: September 7, 2004 at 1:25:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

forwarded with permission-

This article came out in Gallery, in their October/November 1999 issue.
Peace and love
—–

The Turf War On Drugs: How Much Longer Can We
Afford To ‘Just Say No’?

A look at America’s secret treatment for drug
abuse discovered in the era of Eisenhower in
the White House and bomb shelters in the basement.

By Guy R. Arseneau

Part Two

On May 17th, 1997, President Clinton, speaking on behalf of the nation
from the East Room of the White House, issued an apology that was sorely
deserved and obscenely overdue. In acknowledging the government sponsored
racism exemplified by the infamous Tuskegee Experiment, he told the
surviving victims and their family members, “What was done cannot be undone
but we can end the silence. I am sorry that your federal government
orchestrated a study so clearly racist.”

Clinton brought to the forefront of America’s conscience an act of
domestic terrorism perpetrated against her own people that began in 1932 and
lasted until the early seventies. The victims in question were the three
hundred and ninety nine black men used as human guinea pigs in the Public
Health Services project officially known as The Tuskegee Study of Untreated
Syphilis in the Negro Male. Poor and in some cases illiterate, many of the
men described their malady as a “bad blood” condition. Having signed up for
what was ostensibly a free health care program, they were denied appropriate
medical services even after antibiotics became readily available. Dr.
Randall Morgan, president of the nation’s oldest black professional medical
society, said Clinton’s apology did not excuse the tragedy of Tuskegee, but
noted, “It may help close this unfortunate chapter in our nation’s history.”
Sadly, neither Dr. Morgan, the victims, nor their family members realized
just how incomplete and cynical Clinton’s apology was that day.

Fast forward several hundred miles north of Tuskegee and almost twenty
five years after those atrocities began: Doctor Harris Isbell, Director of
what was called the Research Division of the United States Narcotics Farm in
Lexington, Kentucky, wrote a clinical report on the status of eight African
American males who were undergoing secret testing with a highly unusual drug
known as Ibogaine. In the report, dated November 29, 1956 and addressed to
the Research Director for the drug company CIBA, (CIBA-Geigy today) Isbell
evaluated the clinical traits manifested by these men, who were tested
without their lawful consent. After describing their drug-induced clinical
symptoms, Isbell requested more of the drug from CIBA for further
experimentations. At the time CIBA was supplying Ibogaine to Dr. Isbell
under the trade name of Bogidan.

These were the chilliest days of the Cold War era, and Isbell, an
alleged CIA operative, was not concerned with the issue of government
sponsored racism in his quest to find the perfect chemical to induce mass
psychological disorientation. The records concerning these experiments have
not seen the light of day since the fifties, when they disappeared into the
archives of the CIA and the Pentagon. Even now, forty three years after the
fact, the CIA refuses to even acknowledge these documents exist.

Is this an apocryphal story, just another myth of the mass culture to be
lumped in with rumors of a secret cure for cancer, UFO contact, and
sightings of Elvis? Or is it possible that the American government stumbled
onto a solution for drug addiction over forty years ago but decided to
remain silent? According to Doctor Rick Strassman, a psychiatrist at the
University of New Mexico cleared to do government sponsored research on LSD,
the answer to the latter question may very well be “Yes”.

Under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), copies were obtained of a
March 8th, 1995 seminar conducted at the government’s National Institute on
Drug Abuse in Rockville, Maryland. Chaired by Frank Vocci, a deputy director
at NIDA, the meeting centered on the topic of allowing Ibogaine to go into a
“Phase One” clinical trial. In the discussions, Dr. Strassman made direct
references to the Ibogaine research Isbell did with the eight black
prisoners at Lexington, Kentucky in the fifties. During the course of the
talk, Strassman even had specific dosage information, sighting the 50 to 300
milligrams of oral Ibogaine the unwitting test subjects received during that
experiment.

In Part One of this article last month, Howard Lotsof discussed his own
accidental discovery of Ibogaine’s ability to interrupt broad spectrum drug
dependence. As a nineteen year old college student in 1962, he was a heroin
addict who decided to experiment with Ibogaine. To his own great surprise,
within thirty-three hours of ingesting it, all signs of addiction were gone
without any withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Is it really conceivable that
six years earlier Harris Isbell, a medical doctor who conducted experiments
with Ibogaine on drug addicts and non-users alike, could have missed this
dramatic observation in a hospital specifically designed to study the causes
and dynamics of narcotics abuse? Just Say No, Nancy.

While the federal government must shoulder the brunt of the blame for
its deceitful smoke and mirrors approach in the so-called “War On Drugs,”
political power brokers at the state level can be just as deceptive. As a
case and point, consider California. In a 1995 survey, The Berkeley-based
Pacific Institute For Research And Evaluation discovered, at a cost of
$100,000, what any ten year old could have told them–the ad campaigns
against drug abuse were a huge, monumental flop, kids just didn’t believe
them. Working with a base number of 5,000 elementary, middle, and high
school students, the survey results showed that forty percent of California
children believed that “drug education and services had no effect on their
own substance use,” while seven out of ten said they felt neutral or
negative toward drug education.

“This data,” said Dr. Joel Brown, author of the study, “suggests we need
to change our view of today’s children.” He summed up the reason for the ad
campaign failure by stating, “What the kids are told in school does not
often match their real life experiences.” Particularly problematic to kids,
the study showed, was the observation that children who were in an
especially “high risk” category for using drugs were usually dumped from
school, thereby making it a “drug free” institution. The outcome of this
publicly funded survey should have been a cause of serious concern to every
parent in California, unfortunately they weren’t told the results.

Jana Slater, a Department of Education spokesperson in Sacramento said,
“The report was commissioned for the Department of Education for internal
decision-making. Joel Brown is responsible if he wants it published,” she
concluded. “Not so,” contended Brown, “The Department of Education has a
responsibility to report it to the public. It was paid for by taxpayers,
they should have the opportunity to judge whether or not the report was
meaningful.” From 1991 through 1995, over 1.6 billion dollars in federal,
state, and private funds were spent on educating kids in California about
drug abuse, that works out to roughly eighty-four dollars a year per
student. You really do get what you pay for–sometimes you just don’t know
it.

Ibogaine’s ability to interrupt narcotic addiction would certainly seem
to be a major step forward in the fight against drug abuse, but clinical
research into its use can be fraught with career liabilities, research
funding threats, and contradictions among researchers themselves. Dr.
Stanley Glick, chief of the pharmacology department at the Albany College of
Medicine in New York and an Ibogaine researcher said, “There’s no question
that there’s a political barrier. Why it’s there I really don’t understand,
but I received advice from people I know at NIDA, who were acting in my best
interest, advising me to work on something else.”

Investigative TV journalist Al White, during his tenure with the CBS
affiliate WBTV in Charlotte, North Carolina, did an update story on Ibogaine
and discovered that the researchers at the University of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill lived in fear of NIDA officials. “They were more than willing to
air their complaints to me off camera,” White says, “but they asked me not
to report it on my newscast. They were afraid of losing funds controlled by
the National Institute on Drug Abuse. After seeing how this stuff seemed to
cure lab rats of alcoholism almost instantly with just one dose, I don’t
know why in the world the government isn’t banging the drum about this
amazing drug,” he notes. Yet Dr. Deborah Mash, a researcher and
neuropharmacologist at the University of Miami said, “I don’t think it will
ever become a drug you can get, the clock has run out on Ibogaine.” But
moments later, she went on to pose the question, “Would I choose to put a
loved one in my family on Methadone? I don’t think I would. I’d rather see
them get Ibogaine.”

Although the FDA has agreed to go ahead with the “Phase One” clinical
trials on Ibogaine, NIDA’s enthusiasm has been somewhat mixed over the last
several years. At one time the agency did extensive Ibogaine testing, but
refused other researchers the opportunity to pursue it. Only five years ago,
four grant requests were submitted to NIDA for financing part of the
Ibogaine investigations. All were rejected. As recently as 1997, NIDA
officials, tapping into their vast arsenal of weapons in “The War On Drugs,”
decided to move away from research on Ibogaine and promote the development
of a vaccine to block the craving for cocaine before people even tried it.
But as Mash angrily notes, “If individuals want to escape reality, if
existence in the world is so painful, then addicts are going to use some
other method to self-medicate.”

While it might be a political hot potato around Washington’s Belt Way and
in clinical research institutions across the nation, there is a thriving
underground culture preaching the Ibogaine gospel. In New York City’s East
Village, Dana Beal, a self-described science writer and AIDS activist, takes
the government to task for turning its back on this breakthrough drug. His
organization, Cures Not Wars (www.cures-not-wars.org) promotes The Ibogaine
Story: Report On The Staten Island Project. In video tape and book form, the
work offers a diverse look at the history, research, and social issues
affecting Ibogaine and drug legislation. “At the very least,” says Beal, “I
would think Ibogaine therapy would certainly cut down on AIDS infection
caused by IV drug users sharing the same needle.”

Not surprisingly, government refusal to be forthcoming about secret
medical research on humans is a sore point in Black communities across the
nation. With Tuskegee and Lexington as government-sanctioned precedents for
laboratory racism, members of the Black community are understandably
skeptical about participating in medical research. The credibility fallout
from a generation ago continues to reverberate among minority groups even
now. As Brenda Wilson of National Public Radio noted, “It’s more difficult
for health professionals and doctors to treat AIDS among Afro-Americans
today, since many are reluctant to use experimental drugs.”

The question of cultural paradigms becomes a critical medical/social
issue in examining Ibogaine’s impact on a user’s psychological health. While
some scientists in the West arbitrarily dismiss Ibogaine’s “visionary”
attributes as mere hallucinations brought on by drug-induced changes in
brain chemistry, one researcher is not willing to write off the phenomena
that easily. Dr. Claudio Naranjo, a Chilean psychiatrist who worked in the
sixties with patients using Ibogaine, described their altered state of
consciousness as “oneirophrenic,” or dream-like. This misinterpreted view of
Ibogaine led some to believe that it was in fact similar to LSD.  Naranjo
felt the two substances were clearly distinct from each other in their
effects on patients. He noted that patients remained lucid and alert during
the “oneiric,” or waking dream periods, leading him to believe Ibogaine can
be a useful adjunct in psychotherapy.

The survivors of Tuskegee and their families waited twenty seven years
for an apology from the United States government. The Black men used in the
drug experiments at Lexington, along with the estimated one hundred and
forty million people worldwide suffering the consequences of drug addiction,
still wait for an acknowledgment from Clinton that he does “feel their pain”
forty three years after the fact. The President, who spoke of his sorrow
over government racism in the Tuskegee Experiment, could atone for his own
sins and those of his Cold War predecessors by pushing for limits on how
long the CIA and other government agencies could keep their involvement in
domestic projects secret. In addition to that, introducing  an independent
civilian review board, unfettered by political ties to present or past
Administrations, would help in preventing human rights violations, which
thrive in  a shrouded atmosphere of lies and secrets, but disappear when
exposed to fresh air.

Handle the text below as a sidebar

To answer some of the questions and misconceptions about Ibogaine, Dr. Ken
Alper will hold a Conference on Ibogaine, November 5th & 6th at New York
University School of Medicine. The two day meeting will deal with the
social, political, scientific, and historical roles this drug has played in
Africa and the West. Dr. Alper stresses that those who access the web for
information must keep in mind that the letter ‘P’ in the web address is case
sensitive and must be capitalized.
http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/ibogaineconf
—–

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Guy Arseneau” <guyrite@juno.com>
To: <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Ibogaine story

September 7, 2004

Preston:

I’m enclosing the ibogaine story as an attachment. If you have nay
problems opening it, give me a fax number and I’ll send it to you that way.

Regards,

Guy Arseneau

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 7, 2004 at 12:11:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve eaten hundreds at once and I have no mental problems.  Try touching raw crystal LSD before they lay the sheets and we’ll see you in a week, if you have a strong mind.  HA, Ha, ha!

Each of these stories seems to have one thing in
common: MASSIVE, RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of ac*d scarfed in
an extraordinarily short amount of time.  Which leads
me to ask: WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT???<

Ummm, well, to be honest, to trip of course. I’ve done similar amounts to
that “50 hits of LSD in 3 days” story,(and greater once or twice) waaaay
back when I was selling LSD in Paris. I got to the point where even if I
doubled my dose (say, ate 12-15 very, very strong, Pink Panther blotters,
back in 1984-85, at once) I’d not feel it, not even a twinge. I had to wait
2 days, and then be able to trip again each third day- which I was doing for
a good year, tripping on one hell of a lot of very good LSD every third day
(err, or night, whichever, didn’t really matter, I’d trip when I was
physically able to) for about a year or so. I did it and then tried to
behave normally, putting myself into the most awkward, weird,
dealing-with-officials situations as I could. I LOVED it.
But then, I like tripping- a lot. I realize some folks might think me
weird and off-kilter, but I think that despite my appearance I’m a pretty
rational sane fellow- other than for liking drugs of course, and we all know
that means I’m SICK and perverted and such. Oh yeah, I just gotta have me
some more treatment too. ‘Cause I’m diseased.
Hmmm.
Peace and love,
Preston
(oh yeah, and I usually, by the end, wanted to take MORE. Shrooms are the
only thing I trip on that make me feel uncomfortable at the end for some
reason- in remarkable likeness to withdrawals. That’s Weird, I know.)

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?

Randy,

Wow- yeah, I know a dude from British Colombia who ate
50 hits in about three days, and ended up in a mental
hospital for over 3 years!!

Each of these stories seems to have one thing in
common: MASSIVE, RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of ac*d scarfed in
an extraordinarily short amount of time.  Which leads
me to ask: WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT???

I’ve always been able to get off on only 1-2 hits,
maximum.  And even then, the trip was long and taxing,
especially towards the end.

Some people have weird motivations when doing drugs;
it’s like maybe these dudes were chemically imbalanced
to begin with, and the huge influx of LSD just threw
them off kilt…

Julie

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From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 7, 2004 at 12:04:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvoxians, what about LSD? I know a guy, and I think everyone else knows someone like this, who after tripping on some real strong LSD, never came back. He’s been very schizzo ever since. I knew this guy well in jr. high and high school. He was a little weird but basically a pretty cool guy. That LSD was some gold colored window pane and it was as strong as anything I ever did. Seemed like pure LSD to me. How could LSD cause this guy to lose it? I mean this dude has never held a job. Word is he bought 30 hits and basically ate them all in about a week. It was definitely 4 way. I personally cut one in 4 pieces and watched 3 people and myself get a mild buzz. Strong yea, but I always thought LSD was pretty tame as far as real damage was concerned. This dude still thinks the devil is gonna fuck him at any time. That was in 75. Just a random brain spasm from me. Randy

The guy probably had some underlying mental instability that was made worse from the LSD.  I know people, including myself who have done thumbprints of LSD(like eating 3-5 sheets at least) and are just fine.  I have eaten thousands and thousands of doses and I am okay, so what happened to your friend was probably not directly caused by L, but most likely some chemical imbalance that was aggravated by the LSD.  Just a guess, of course, but that would be my guess.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 7, 2004 at 12:00:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is NO ANSWER man. The idea is to discover what it is that allows you
to commit to an action that either is self destructive or just something you
don’t want to do anymore but still do it! Sean, this is not an opinion of
mine. As arrogant as this will sound, it is the truth! There is no answer
and never will be one. You are the answer my friend! <

I have to agree. There is no “answer,” only hints, tools, and hope. As well
as effort, stamina and desperation. And a whole bunch of other things too
I’d say.
;-))

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean. I am sorry for your feeling so bad, but this is exactly the reason I
keep stating Ibogaine should not be approached as a tool for getting off
drugs. Look man, you didn’t fail!! All therapies or treatments are tools to
learn about one’s self. Ibogaine is just that, another tool. If you manage
to get off drugs and stay off them-GREAT! If you don’t -GREAT!! Every
treatment I have experienced has also claimed to be the answer. There is NO
ANSWER man. The idea is to discover what it is that allows you to commit to
an action that either is self destructive or just something you don’t want
to do anymore but still do it! Sean, this is not an opinion of mine. As
arrogant as this will sound, it is the truth! There is no answer and never
will be one. You are the answer my friend! After you learn about yourself,
you become the treatment to specifically stop eating, drug taking, spending
money you don’t have, whatever!

Don’t you see? If you take the approach that if you do plan A,
you will go clean from drugs, and you do not stop, you set yourself up for
feeling as a failure! Exactly what you said!!! Another attempt at this that
failed! No man, that’s not what it is. You succeeded just fine. The only
thing that you mixed up is what your goals should have been identified as.
Learning Process!! Gaining insight! That I know you have done! You must keep
on learning and as you learn about one thing in your life it is then that
you can even consider changing your behavior so extremely. Look, you went
quite a while without getting high on crack. All of us know that is one
bitch of a task with that drug. You said you felt like doing it a week
after…you didn’t! So you did last night, big fucking deal! You know
moderation is change and that you have accomplished. I would continue on
your path and keep learning about what motivates you to continue doing
things that you feel are killing you even though you have chosen to continue
living!! That my friend is what your goal is!! The same as mine. Why do I do
things that are so self destructive when I no longer wish to be that way. I
WANT TO FUCKING LIVE MAN!!!  You will Sean! You will………….

The
best man,

Julian

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine reports
Date: September 7, 2004 at 11:57:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Consolidated versions of Preston’s, Mark’s and Julie’s ibogaine experiences
are available from http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

Comments appreciated.

Howard

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 7, 2004 at 10:02:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean. I am sorry for your feeling so bad, but this is exactly the reason I keep stating Ibogaine should not be approached as a tool for getting off drugs. Look man, you didn’t fail!! All therapies or treatments are tools to learn about one’s self. Ibogaine is just that, another tool. If you manage to get off drugs and stay off them-GREAT! If you don’t -GREAT!! Every treatment I have experienced has also claimed to be the answer. There is NO ANSWER man. The idea is to discover what it is that allows you to commit to an action that either is self destructive or just something you don’t want to do anymore but still do it! Sean, this is not an opinion of mine. As arrogant as this will sound, it is the truth! There is no answer and never will be one. You are the answer my friend! After you learn about yourself, you become the treatment to specifically stop eating, drug taking, spending money you don’t have, whatever!

Don’t you see? If you take the approach that if you do plan A, you will go clean from drugs, and you do not stop, you set yourself up for feeling as a failure! Exactly what you said!!! Another attempt at this that failed! No man, that’s not what it is. You succeeded just fine. The only thing that you mixed up is what your goals should have been identified as. Learning Process!! Gaining insight! That I know you have done! You must keep on learning and as you learn about one thing in your life it is then that you can even consider changing your behavior so extremely. Look, you went quite a while without getting high on crack. All of us know that is one bitch of a task with that drug. You said you felt like doing it a week after…you didn’t! So you did last night, big fucking deal! You know moderation is change and that you have accomplished. I would continue on your path and keep learning about what motivates you to continue doing things that you feel are killing you even though you have chosen to continue living!! That my friend is what your goal is!! The same as mine. Why do I do things that are so self destructive when I no longer wish to be that way. I WANT TO FUCKING LIVE MAN!!!  You will Sean! You will………….

The best man,

Julian

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] The Epistemology and Technologies of Shamanic States of Consciousness
Date: September 7, 2004 at 9:55:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know anyon…umm, oh, yeah, I do. I do know people who like to alter
their consciousness, even for shamanic purposes. What do you know.
;-))

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: [drugwar] The Epistemology and Technologies of Shamanic States of
Consciousness

http://www.stanleykrippner.com/papers/shamanic_epistemology.html
The Epistemology and Technologies of Shamanic States of Consciousness
Stanley Krippner, Ph.D., Saybrook Graduate School

ABSTRACT: Shamanism can be described as a group of techniques by which its
practitioners enter the “spirit world,” purportedly obtaining information
that is used to help and to heal members of their social group. The shamans’
epistemology, or ways on knowing, depended on deliberately altering their
conscious state and/or heightening their perception to contact spiritual
entities in “upper worlds,” “lower worlds,” and “middle earth” (i.e.,
ordinary reality). For the shaman, the totality of inner and outer reality
was fundamentally an immense signal system, and shamanic states of
consciousness were the first steps toward deciphering this signal system.
Homo sapiens sapiens was probably unique among early humans in the ability
to symbolize, mythologize, and, eventually, to shamanize. This species’
eventual domination may have been due to its ability to take sensorimotor
activity and use it as a bridge to produce narratives that facilitated human
survival. Shamanic technologies, essential for the production and
performance of myths and other narratives, interacted with shamanic
epistemology, reinforcing its basic assumptions about reality.
“The brain is a machine assembled not to understand
itself, but to survive.” (E. O. Wilson, 1998)
Although the term “shaman” is of uncertain derivation, it is often traced to
the language of the Tungus reindeer herders of Siberia where the word saman
translates into “one who is excited, moved, or raised” (Casanowicz, 1924;
Lewis, 1990, pp. 10-12). An alternative translation for the Tungus word is
“inner heat,” and an alternative etymology is the Sanskrit word saman or
“song” (Hoppal, 1987). Each of these terms applies to the activities of
shamans, past and present, who enter what is often described as “an ecstatic
state” in order to engage in spiritual practices that benefit their
community (pp. 91-92). The adaptive character of shamanism is confirmed by
its ubiquitous appearance around the world, not only in hunter-gatherer and
fishing societies, but in centralized societies as well.
Much of the behavior of other animals is instinctive, and their experience
modifies these complex, inborn patterns of behavior. However, drives and
biological propensities, not innate behavior patterns, characterize humans.
Non-human animals, especially gorillas and chimpanzees, probably compare
environmental stimuli to the memory images from past interactions. Humans
fall on this continuum as well, and the satisfaction of their vital needs
was once highly dependent on their ability to use these images to produce
the tools and procedures appropriate for drive satisfaction. Eventually,
these procedures included a variety of social interactions including speech
and ritual behavior (Guryev, 1990, p. 124; V. Turner, 1968).
Ritual afforded an opportunity to express the community’s conceptions of
reality into a social setting. Ritual, a step-by-step social performance, is
the key to the structure of a group’s mythology, or worldview. In shamanic
societies especially, ritual is a stylized technology, one whose symbols and
metaphors may well trigger healing, relieve suffering, and provide a link
between the ordinary world and those realms purportedly traversed by the
shaman (Krippner, 1993; E. Turner, 1992, p. 14; V. Turner, 1968).
The Veladas of María Sabina
Shamanic rituals were essential to the career of the Mazatec Indian María
Sabina, who lived in the state of Oaxaca, Mexico. Born about 1894, María
Sabina led a life of severe hardship. Her father died when she was quite
young, and her first husband abused her terribly. After his death, she
married again but her second husband died when she was in her 40s. Since
childhood, María Sabina had been interested in herbs and worked for a period
of time as a curandera or herbalist. Later, she felt that she had been
called to become a sabía (i.e., “one who knows”) and ingested psilocybin
mushrooms as a way of “knowing” the condition and treatment of her clients.
During my interviews with her in 1980, doña María told me that Jesus Christ
and other spiritual entities came to her and her client during the veladas
(evening mushroom ceremonies), bringing information about her client’s
problem and its resolution.
As a sabía or shamanic healer, María Sabina manifested considerable control
during the veladas, chanting liturgies containing an overlay of Roman
Catholic imagery which cloaked the odes used by the Indian priests who had
been overthrown by the Spaniards in the 1520s. The Spanish Inquisition
outlawed the veladas, but the Mazatecs took them underground for four
centuries. One night, María Sabina dreamed that it was her mission to share
this sacred knowledge with the world. Soon after this dream, on June 29,
1955, a group of U.S. investigators headed by R. Gordon Wasson arrived.
Eventually, doña María and the psilocybin mushrooms were featured in Life
magazine, and the field of ethnomycology was born (Estrada, 1981; Wasson,
1981). Doña María’s reported dream is unique for several reasons: it ran
counter to the attempt of male elders to keep their practices secret, and
its egalitarian and universal motive violated the political power of her
society’s male hierarchy. She paid dearly for this action; her grocery store
was burned to the ground and her son was murdered.
María Sabina’s worldview is expressed in her chants; in one, she apparently
alludes to her shamanic journeys:
I am a woman who flies.
I am the sacred eagle woman, [the mushroom] says;
I am the Lord eagle woman;
I am the lady who swims;
Because I can swim in the immense,
Because I can swim in all forms.
I am the shooting star woman,
I am the shooting star woman beneath the water,
I am the lady doll,
I am the sacred clown,
Because I can swim,
Because I can fly. (Estrada, 1981, abridged, pp. 93-94, 96)
Doña María’s feelings of unity with nature and with the spirit world is
revealed by another set of chants; the lyrics also portray her active role
in attaining knowledge:
I have the heart of the Virgin,
I have the heart of Christ,
I have the heart of the Father,
I have the heart of the Old One,
It’s that I have the same soul,
The same heart as the saint, as the saintess;
I am a spirit woman,
A woman of good words, good breath, good saliva,
I am the little woman of the great expanse of the waters,
I am the little woman of the expanse of the divine sea.
I am a woman who looks into the insides of things,
A woman who investigates, Holy Father,
I am a woman born, I am a child born,
I am a woman fallen into the world. (pp. 107, 129-130)
In other words, María Sabina employed an investigatory way of knowing; she
“looks into the insides of things.” She, and other shamans, learn from “the
spirits,” “the waters,” and “the divine sea.” Tradition and holy writ might
provide source material for the shaman, but it is his or her “heart” and
“soul” that are the final arbiters of knowledge.
Shamanism as a Biologically Derived Specialization
Winkelman (1997) proposes that María Sabina and other shamans represent a
“biologically derived” human specialization, and that these potentials are
actualized through social adaptations. This proposition could be used to
explain the worldwide appearance of shamans as well as the fundamental role
of altered conscious states and/or heightened perception in shamanic healing
and divination practices. An example of divination has been given by Lerche
(2000). In his quest for the lost tribes of the Peruvian Chachapoya (or
“cloud people”), he consulted a shaman who drew on the power of ritual
objects. The shaman had a vision that some of the tombs remained unharmed
and, soon after the consultation, Lerche detected a mummy bundle in a tomb
high on a cliff (p. 68).
These potentials can be described as “neurognostic” because they involve
neural networks that provide the biological substrate for ways of knowing
(Laughlin, McManus, & d’Aquili, 1990), i.e., epistemology. I would add that
these neurognostic potentials are not the exclusive domain of shamans;
primordial humans performed healing and divinatory functions themselves
before specialization established a hierarchy. Evidence for this position
can be found in fairly egalitarian tribal societies such as the !Kung of
southwestern Africa where about half the males and a sizable number of
females shamanize, producing the “boiling energy” (i.e., sweat) used in
their healing rituals (Katz, 1982).
Neurognostic potentials provide the basis for those forms
of perception, cognition, and affect that are structured by the
organism’s neurological systems. They are probably reflected in
what Jungians call “archetypes,” which can be conceptualized as the
predispositions that provide organizing principles for the basic modes of
consciousness and elementary behavior patterns, including the intuitive
capacity to initiate, control, and mediate everyday behavior.
Stevens (1982) suggests that “from the viewpoint of modern
neurology, Jung’s work stands as a brilliant vindication of…the
value of intuitive knowledge” (pp. 273-274). When ritualized shamanic
performance is described as “archetypal,” the activity reflects
biologically based modes of consciousness, a replacement of the
ordinary waking state through discharge patterns that produce
interhemispheric synchronization and coherence, limbic-cortex
integration, and integral discharges that synthesize cognition,
affect, and behavior (Winkelman, 1992). Shweder (1979) found that
Zinacanteco shamans in Mexico possess cognitive capacities that distinguish
them from non-shamans such as having available a number of constructive
categories, imposing these forms onto ambiguous situations; these
integrative capacities may have facilitated the development of shamanic
epistemologies over the millennia.
A variety of procedures, agents, and other technologies are available to
evoke limbic system slow wave discharges that synchronize the frontal cortex
(Mandell, 1980). In addition, shamans can be characterized as
“fantasy-prone” (Wilson & Barber, 1983), endowed with capacities, genetic to
some degree, that facilitate their use of imaginative processes.
Fantasy-proneness exists on a continuum; most humans engage in fantasy,
imagination, and play (especially “pretending” and “role-playing”)
periodically, but shamans draw upon this trait for their specialization.
Many of the early shamans may not have been dependent on transient
consciousness alteration but manifested a heightened perceptual style that
was part of their everyday state of consciousness. Berman (2000) suggests
that “heightened awareness” may be a more accurate description of shamanic
consciousness than “altered state” because their intense experience of the
natural world is described by them in such terms as “things often seem to
blaze” (p. 30). Paradoxically, shamans are characterized both by an acute
perception of their environment and by imaginative fantasy. These traits
(the ability to construct categories, the potential for pretending and
role-playing, and the capacity to experience the natural world vividly) gave
shamans an edge over peers who had simply embraced life as it presented
itself, without the filters of myth or ritual (Berman, 2000, p. 81).
All of these traits may be related to the evolution of the human brain,
namely the development of specialized subsystems that are activated during
shifts in consciousness. The hallmark of cortical evolution is not the
ever-increasing sophistication of specialized cortical circuitry but an
increasing representational flexibility that allows environmental factors to
shape the human brain’s structure and function (Gazzaniga, 1994; Quartz &
Sejnowski, 1997). Pinker (1997) suggests that the “mind” is made up of many
modules, each honed by aeons of evolution, and shamans may have learned to
integrate these modules (Winkelman, 2000, p. 7). If so, shamanic
technologies represent the initial institutionalized practices for this
integration, both through shifts in consciousness and community bonding
rituals (Winkelman, 1997). These practices became codified in the form of
myth, ritual, and ceremony, providing for social solidarity and
specialization.
McClenon (1997) hypothesizes that the benefits of shamanic states of
consciousness elicited an evolutionary increase in genes that would expedite
this condition. However, all cultural changes in the past 90,000 to 100,000
years of homo sapiens sapiens (i.e., modern humans) have been environmental,
not genetic (deMause, 1998). Therefore, this essay takes the position that
once homo sapiens sapiens arrived on the scene, and once shamanism developed
as a societal specialization, the contributions of shamanism to the
evolution of human consciousness took on socio-cultural roots that built
upon humanity’s biological (i.e., neurognostic) groundings.
The initiation and direction of thought and behavior owes as much to social
construction as it does to biology (Rychlak, 1997, p. 143). Furthermore, all
human societies contain inventive people but some of them provide more
unusual materials and more favorable conditions for utilizing new
technologies than do other environments (Diamond, 1997, p. 408). It is
likely that spiritual activities originally involved the entire clan, but
changing social and economic conditions brought about shamanic
specialization and, later, a priesthood (Anisimov, 1963) and social
inequality (Berman, 2000, p. 82).
Shamanic Technologies
The oral traditions that preserved the myths that structured
a culture’s identity and worldview may not have been originated by shamans,
but eventually were passed down by them (Wiercinski, 1989). For example,
María Sabina and her fellow shamans preserved, in their chants and rituals,
Mazatec mythologies for more than four centuries, preserving their cultural
identity in the face of Spanish oppression. To facilitate this societal
function, many shamans developed techniques to assist the elicitation and
movement of “inner heat,” to enable their shamanic journeys, and to
facilitate their contact with the “upper” and “lower” worlds. This
technology allowed them to encounter spirits, ancestors, animal totems, and
other resources that had found their way into mythological songs and
stories.
Epistemology is concerned with the nature, characteristics, and processes of
knowledge, and in this essay, I am suggesting that shamanic epistemology
drew upon perceptual, cognitive, affective, and somatic ways of knowing that
assisted early humans to find their way through an often unpredictable,
sometimes hostile, series of environmental challenges. Not only did early
humans have to become aware of potentially dangerous environmental objects
and activities, they needed to have explanatory stories (enacted as mythic
rituals) at their disposal to navigate through the contingencies of daily
encounters and challenges. The acute perceptual abilities of shamans, in
combination with their intuition and imagination, met their societies’
needs.
Eliade (1972) writes of the “technologies of the sacred,” and, for me,
shamanism is most accurately defined as a collection of these technologies.
Shamanism comprises a group of techniques by which practitioners
deliberately alter or heighten their conscious awareness to enter the
so-called “spirit world,” accessing material that they use to help and to
heal members of the social group that has acknowledged their shamanic
status1. In psychological terms, shamans are socially designated
practitioners who claim to self-regulate their psychological functions to
obtain information unavailable to other members of their social group.
Shamans were probably humanity’s original specialists, combining the roles
of healers, storytellers, weather forecasters, performing artists,
ritualists, and magicians. A chief or chieftainess directed the tribe’s
political, civic, and military life, and the shamans were in charge of a
tribe’s spiritual life, but occasionally these two roles converged in a
single, remarkable individual.
Mythological worldviews arise from epistemologies which, in turn, are fueled
by the motives, needs, and traditions of a group in a
specific time and place. Examples would be pre-classical worldviews that
conceptualized people as an integral part of nature; knowledge was mediated
through tribal shamans and their activities. For the ancient Greeks and
other classical groups, knowledge was obtained through rationally
constructed metaphysical systems; in Asia and other parts of the world,
these systems were less individualistic and more communal. In medieval
European societies, knowledge was scholastic and could be found in the
correct interpretation of sacred scriptures. The modern approach to
knowledge involves a proper application of the empirical scientific method,
taking as axiomatic that there can only be one possible answer to any
question — a position shared by the metaphysical and scholastic
epistemologies that were based on very different assumptions (Krippner,
1995). Although I disagree with the anti-epistemological slant of many
so-called “postmodernists,” I am pleased that postmodernism points to the
need for honoring multiple narratives, and becoming aware of the process by
which narratives are constructed (see Berman, 2000, p. 323).
Tribal people did not necessarily insist that their mythic worldview was
applicable to their neighbors; even when locked in battle, there often was a
regard and respect for their opponents’ courage. In postmodern writing,
there is also a respect for diversity, empathy for other human beings, and
concern for other life forms; all are reminiscent of shamanic worldviews.
Postmodernists hold that there can be many viable worldviews, depending on
who is asking the question and the methodology used in answering it
(Krippner, 1995). Therefore, the case can be made that postmodernists have
returned full circle to certain premodern shamanic perspectives, regaining
valuable aspects of an epistemology that was denigrated as a result of
colonization and conquest.
Shamanic eclecticism and syncretization was apparent in my interviews with
María Sabina, who put her epistemology into concrete terms. At the time of
our interviews, doña María had retired from active shamanizing, but she told
me, “When someone came to me for help, we would eat the mushrooms together.
Jesus Christ is in the mushrooms and he revealed to us the solution to the
problem.” Wasson (1981) observed that the mythical origin of doña María’s
veladas dates back to the time when Piltzintecuhtli, the “Noble Infant,”
received the sacred plants as a gift from Quetzalcoatl. Doña María’s
references to Jesus represent a synthesis of the Christian and the
pre-Conquest religions (p. 17).
Categories of Spiritual Practitioners
Winkelman (1992) studied the records of religious and
magical practices in 47 different societies, past and present,
finding documentary evidence from these societies identifying
several categories of spiritual practitioners. These practitioners claimed
to have access to spiritual entities (e.g., deities, ghosts, spirits). They
directed a society’s spiritual activities (e.g., prayer, sacred ceremonies),
employing special powers (e.g., casting spells, bestowing blessings,
exorcising demons) that allowed them to influence the course of human
affairs in ways not possible by other members of their social group.
Winkelman found remarkable similarities among these clusters of
practitioners, especially regarding the manner in which their roles changed
as societies became more complex. For example, he found shamans in those
groups with no formal social classes; their presence was typical of hunting
and gathering tribes and fishing societies. The Creek, Crow, and Kiman were
among the Native American tribes that awarded considerable prestige to the
shamans in their midst. Each society had a different word to describe what
are now called “shamans,” and the specific duties expected of these
practitioners differed from group to group.
Once a society became sedentary, centralized, and began to practice
agriculture, social stratification took place; in addition to the division
of labor, political and economic divisions occurred. Priests or priestesses
emerged, taking control of a society’s religious rituals while the shaman’s
political power and social status were reduced. According to Winkelman, the
term “shaman/healer” (or “shamanic healer”) is a more accurate description
of this practitioner because healing became his or her major function.
The role of the shamanic healer became specialized and
formal; official initiation ceremonies and training procedures became more
common. Political development beyond the level of the local community was
observed in almost all the societies in which priests were present. The
Jivaros in South America and the Ibo tribe in western Africa are among the
few groups in which priests were assigned a healing function; priests also
served healing purposes in Japanese Buddhist and
Kurd Dervish groups. However, the shamanic healer typically engaged in more
self-regulatory activities and the accessing of changed states of
consciousness than did priests and priestesses.
Political integration became even more complex when separate judicial,
military, and legislative institutions appeared. Along with this complexity,
the malevolent practitioner (i.e., sorcerer or witch) appeared. Originally,
shamans cast hexes and spells on tribal enemies; these functions were taken
over by the sorcerer and, for a price, were often directed against members
of one’s own social group. Potions and charms became the province of witches
and their associates. The shamanic healer’s scope of action was now reduced
not only by priests, but by sorcerers and/or witches as well. There were
sorcerers among the Aztecs. There were witches among the Navahos. In my
visit to Oaxaca to interview María Sabina, I found a society replete not
only with sabias (shamanic healers) such as doña María, but sorcerers
(brujos) as well as the local Roman Catholic priest.
Further political complexities and continued dependence on agriculture
became associated with the development of another
practitioner, the diviner or medium, such as those found among the Eurasian
Kazakhs. At one time the shaman’s repertoire had included divination and
talking with spirits; later, mediums and diviners began to specialize in
this feat, often “incorporating” the spirits and allowing them to speak and
act through their voices and bodies. At this point, the shaman’s role was
dispersed to the extent that the only remaining functions were specialized
healing capacities as the performing of healing songs and dances, dispensing
herbal medicines, and diagnosis, bone-setting, midwifery, and surgery.
Winkelman refers to these practitioners as “healers” (or “shamanistic
healers”). Like shamanic healers, shamanistic healers held the healing of
one’s spirit in high regard, but became more involved in individual work
than in community work. Furthermore, changing one’s state of consciousness
and journeying to the spirit world no longer was a core element of their
work, as was the case with shamans and shamanic healers.
This classification system was found to be quite accurate when
cross-societal comparisons were made (Winkelman, 1997). With only two
exceptions, shamans never were found in tribal groups that displayed an
administrative political organization beyond the local level. No shamans
were found in sedentary societies where the nomadic way of life was absent.
When Winkelman traced the development of these four categories (i.e., the
“shaman complex,” priests, diviners, malevolent practitioners), he did not
assign the terms “higher” and “lower” to the states of consciousness
utilized while engaging in their practices.
The shaman’s ways of knowing depended on accessing information from
spiritual entities in “upper worlds,” “lower worlds,” and in “middle earth”
(i.e., ordinary reality). In contrast, the priest’s epistemology was
dependent on a body of revealed knowledge, often preserved in the form of
sacred scripture. Diviners used their own bodies as vehicles for information
that was transmitted through them, while malevolent practitioners also
depended upon traditional knowledge, either written or passed down verbally.
It was not unusual for this material to resemble a “cook-book” that spelled
out the technology which was to be used to inflict various hexes and spells.
In contrast, shamanic ways of knowing were dynamic and active. Shamanism
demanded both flexibility and strength on the part of the practitioner who
would bargain, negotiate, or plead with spiritual entities for the knowledge
that would save his or her community from a plague or restore a lost soul to
its owner.
Shamanic States of Consciousness
The word “consciousness” is used in various ways, but I
define it as the pattern of an organism’s perceptual, cognitive,
and affective activities and/or experiences at any given moment in time. An
alteration of consciousness is a significant shift or deviation in an
organism’s customary pattern as experienced by that organism and/or observed
by others. Some of these shifts have been considered “states” of
consciousness because they are marked by behaviors and experiences that
typically cluster together; each society has its own conception of what
constitutes an “ordinary” state of consciousness and what may be considered
“changed” or “altered” states of consciousness. Winkelman (1992) notes that
in each of the 47 societies he studied at least one type of practitioner
demonstrated a shift in consciousness associated with his or her
apprenticeship and role-training. Wade (1996) adds that “Virtually all
shamanic experiences occur in an altered state, which cannot be regarded as
a naturally-occurring developmental stage” (p. 277).
Bourguignon (1976) studied 488 societies (57% of those represented in an
ethnographic atlas), reporting that 437 of them (89%) had one or more
institutionalized, culturally patterned changed state of consciousness, some
of which were only experienced by the society’s spiritual practitioners.
What can we make of the other 11%? Berman (2000) proposes that “such beliefs
and practices, even if wired into the brain in terms of capacity, get
triggered only in certain cultural contexts” (p. 29). This emphasis on
context is apparent in Peters and Price-Williams’ (1980) comparison of 42
societies from four different cultural areas. They determined three
commonalties among changed states of consciousness entered by shamans:
voluntary control of entrance and duration of the altered state; ability to
communicate with others during the altered state; memory of the experience
at the conclusion of the altered state. Shamans in 18 of the cultures
studied by Peters and Price-Williams (1980) engaged in spirit
“incorporation,” 10 in out-of-body experience or journeying, 11 in both, and
3 in some different altered state. However, there are shamanic groups, such
as the Navajo hataali, who deny entering altered states. The hataali rely on
knowledge, not trance phenomena or magical effects. Their chant work is “a
restrained and dignified procedure,” and they represent, for the client, “a
stable dependable leader who is a helper and guide until the work is ended”
(Sandner, 1979, p. 258). To me, this seems more like a case of heightened
perception than an altered state.
Those shamans who enter altered states employ various technologies. These
include ingesting mind-altering plants (e.g. María Sabina), chanting (again,
doña María), concentrating, dancing, drumming, jumping, fasting, running,
visualizing, participating in sexual activity, refraining from sexual
activity, engaging in lucid dreaming, and going without sleep. Rarely is one
procedure used in isolation. For example, mind-altering plants are often
ingested in the evening; sleep deprivation, restricted nighttime vision, and
accompanying music often enhance the experience’s profundity. Song and dance
were important elements in ritual, and probably preceded it. Naturally
occurring altered states, such as dreaming and daydreaming, may also be
utilized (Harner, 1988; Rogers, 1982). Whitley (1998) suggests that one of
the functions of rock and cave image-making may have been to record the
images elicited in shamanic states of consciousness.
The Ojibway Indians shocked Jesuits priests on their arrival in North
America with their behavior during their traditional healing procedures. It
was customary for Ojibway wabeno (shamans) to heal by
means of drumming, rattling, chanting, dancing erotically (while
naked), and handling live coals. The wabeno then rubbed their
heated hands over the client while chanting the songs previously
learned in their vision quests (Grim, 1983, pp. 144-145). Among
the Dieguenos and Luisenos Indians of southern California, potential shamans
were selected as early as nine years of age on the basis of their dreams. It
was important that a prospective shaman in these tribes also had visionary
experiences that resulted from ingesting such mind-altering plants as datura
or jimson weed during their ceremonials. During these altered states, the
novice received a guardian spirit in the form of an animal totem as well as
healing songs and other knowledge about cures and dream interpretation
(Rogers, 1982, p. 21).
Symbolic manipulation is apparent in shamanic rituals, and altered states
often help to access these symbols. Symbols are more than ritual markers
that denote the beginning, middle, or end of the process; they serve as keys
that unlock the door to a full participation in the ritual, taking
participants into another order of reality where spirits come to life and
healing dramas unfold (V. Turner, 1968). The drum often symbolizes the
“World Tree” the shaman needs to climb so as to reach the “upper world” (or
descend to the “lower world”) during the altered state. What they find in
these realms differs from society to society; in some, the “upper world” is
the home of ancestors, but for others, they reside in the “lower world.”
The ritualistic blowing of smoke in four directions symbolizes an appeal to
spirits in the “four quarters” of the universe. Directionality is apparent
in the elaborate Navaho sand paintings that the shamans destroy after they
have served their purpose. Symbolism is also evident in the reports from
those vision quests of the Plains Indians that helped future warriors
contact their guardian spirits. Dobkin de Rios (1984) describes these quests
as attempts at “personal ecstatic learning” in the service of eliciting
biochemical changes in the body that would enhance the altered state. Hence,
tribal shamans played an important role in preparing, instructing, and
guiding their initiates, as well as interpreting their visions (p. 57).
The Evolving Mind
As the study of the origin, nature, and limits of knowledge, epistemology is
closely associated with Western concepts of consciousness (Winkelman, 2000,
p. 177). For many years, Durkheim’s (1912/1995) theories were especially
influential. Taking Australian totemism as the prototype for all early
spiritual experience, Durkheim focused on the feelings of security gained by
life in a secure group. He conjectured that early tribes projected these
feelings on to whatever object they were close to at the time they
experienced them. In this way, plants, animals, rocks, and other objects
were imbued with “power,” the capacity to instill strong feelings and to
assist the person who befriended, ate, or wore them. According to Durkheim,
ritual behavior preceded language, which only became necessary when
communication with imaginary beings was mandatory2.
More recently, neuropsychology has impacted explanations of these phenomena.
A perspective that is especially useful in understanding shamanic
epistemologies has been proposed by Newton (1996) who attempts to unravel
certain entrenched philosophical puzzles concerning both consciousness and
representational thought. Taking exception to purely linguistic theories of
cognition, Newton takes a parsimonious “postmodern” position on humanity’s
attempts to represent reality. For Newton, humanity’s variegated experiences
with reality demonstrate the vast range of specific sensorimotor images and
sensations that constitute its direct, ongoing understanding of the
environment. For Newton, thinking makes use of the same neurological (i.e.,
neurognostic) structures involved in sensorimotor activity, structures that
take the form of analog models of reality; the resulting images ground
humankind’s concepts, constructs, and intentions.
To support this thesis Newton cites behavioral data, findings from
neuroscience, and evolutionary evidence, that language was a tool for
communication before it became the primary determinant of cognition. Taking
issue with both the “reductionists” who explain sensory phenomena simply as
brain properties and the “new mysterians” who see consciousness as something
beyond the reach of physical theory, Newton constructs a sturdy framework
that unifies not only body and mind but
linguistic and nonlinguistic human activities as well. Donald’s (1991)
model, compatible with that of Newton, gives mythmaking a key role in human
evolution, and describes “scenario-building” as the primary function of
human mental complexity (also see Alexander, 1979). When mythic worldviews
were performed ritually, participants were confronted with representations
of objects and events in addition to those items themselves.
Corballis (1991) posits a hypothetical “generative assembling device” in the
human brain, and gives it credit for constructing these cognitive
representations from “small vocabularies of primitive units” (p. 219).
Jerison (1990) describes language as a “sensory-perceptual development” and
states that its role in communication first evolved as a side effect to its
role in reality construction; thus, “we need language more to tell stories
than to direct actions. In the telling we create mental images in our
listeners that might normally be produced only by the memory of events as
recorded and integrated by the sensory and perceptual systems of the brain”
(pp. 15-16). This capacity required an enormous amount of neural tissue, and
the convolutions of the human brain were associated with the development of
language and related capacities for mental imagery (p. 16).
Some of these mental images are termed “images of achievement” by Vandervert
(1996) because they reflect a learned imaging process in the cerebral-motor
cortex. This process extends into the extrapolated anticipatory future by
means of fast time computations of the cerebellum, and these images
continually predict the outcomes of the next steps of human action or
achievement. These images are often symbolic in nature, allowing for a
condensation of considerable information and meaning.
Since the time of Goethe, many scholars have proposed that the epistemology
of primordial people began with their sensorimotor experiences (Flaherty,
1992, p. 168). According to these scholars, mythmaking, a basic propensity
of humankind, has its referents in bodily functions as well as in observable
nature. Sansonese (1994) notes, “The more ancient the myth, the more often
do parts of the human body play an explicit role in the myth” (p. 7), for
example, Adam’s Rib and the Egyptian myth of Set and Isis. It will be
recalled that one of the possible derivations for the term “shaman” is “one
who is excited, moved, or raised” while another is “inner heat”; both refer
to bodily processes and the appreciation of the sensory world. In addition,
they both are examples of politicized talents (along with fire mastery,
symbolic death, and entering “trance”) that privatize shamanism and restrict
its membership.
In his account of the evolution of the human mind, Mithen (1996) describes
the emergence of general intelligence as well as of four specialized
“cognitive domains,” namely technical intelligence, social intelligence,
natural history intelligence, and language. It is likely that these
“domains” share information in what Baars (1997) refers to as a “global
workspace.” Consistent with Newton’s (1996) emphasis on language as a tool
for communication (and contrary to Durkheim’s position), Mithen (1996) holds
that language was originally social. Once the capacity for language was
present it was highly adaptive, eventually providing early humans with the
ability to reflect on their own and other people’s mental states (p. 140).
In this way, it began to interact with social intelligence and, still later;
early humans were able to talk about tool-making (technical intelligence) as
well as hunting and plant gathering (natural history intelligence). Such
capacities were advantageous because they could construct more accurate,
hence more adaptable, models and descriptions of external events (Povinelli,
1993, p.507).
Once these intelligences became linked across their respective domains, the
resulting “linkage” enabled the production of symbolic artifacts and images
as a means of communication. It also led to the essentially human tendency
to attribute personality and social relationships to plants and animals, a
result of the integration of social intelligence and natural history
intelligence. Artifacts indicating human body decoration (e.g., pieces of
ocher) date back 80,000 years or more (Gore, 1997, p. 98); other artifacts
demonstrating the capacity for visual decoration (e.g., beads, pendants)
date back 40,000 years (Mithen, 1996, p. 155) to the time after the
Cro-Magnon
people emerged. A human-shaped ivory statuette from Hohlenstein-Stadel in
southern Germany is the earliest existing statuette and has been dated at
30,000 to 33,000 years (Mithen, 1996, pp. 162). The origins of shamanism are
often traced back at least 30,000 years (Eliade, 1972, pp. 503).
In western Europe, the Upper Paleolithic era began some
35,000 years ago, and is best known for its remarkable efflorescence of
image-making (Clottes & Lewis-Williams, 1998/1996). For example, the
paintings in the Lascaux caves of southern France date back 17,000 years.
The prone figure depicted on one of the walls is often regarded as a shaman
experiencing an altered state of consciousness (e.g., Eliade, 1972/1951, p.
504), but Berman (2000) asks, if shamanism was so important in Paleolithic
times why do such figures occur so rarely? (p. 25). No matter what these
images represent, it is possible that symbolic image-making had been
accomplished earlier but was executed on materials that did not survive.
During my visit to Lascaux in 1997, our group was allowed only 35 minutes to
tour the cave and appreciate its images; even so, it would take the cave’s
atmosphere several hours to recuperate from our intrusion. We were
overwhelmed by the raw power of the colorful wild horses, antlered reindeer,
and massive bison we encountered. Negative space, a technique not used again
in Europe until the 16th century, was utilized to create perspective. The
cave’s surface brings a three-dimensionality to the paintings — a
naturally-formed hole provides the eye for one animal, and a bulging rock
becomes the shoulder of a bison.
There are a plethora of geometric forms thought by some to be signatures of
the artists; if so, this convention was not revived until the Renaissance.
Some animals have been cleverly painted so that they share body parts, while
other figures are superimposed on each other and are distinguished by color
shading (Societe Prehistorique Francaise, 1990; Vanaria, 1997). And, for
some observers, the most exceptional feature of the drawings is their
narrative form; they appear to tell a story (Delluc, Delluc, & Delvert,
1990, p. 57). I agree with Tattersall’s (1998) comment that upon leaving
Lascaux one is overawed by the magnificence of what these remote ancestors
wrought many millennia ago. However, Hughes (2000) notes that the rock
paintings in the sacred cave sites scattered across northwestern Australia,
“are as impressive as anything in the caves of Lascaux or Altamira, and tens
of thousands of years older. As far as we know, The Australian Aborigines
stood at the very dawn of human image-making” (pp. 110-111).
In the European caves, “a small nodule becomes an animal’s eye; sometimes a
natural swell of the rock face was taken to delineate the chest or shoulder
of an animal; sometimes the edge of a shelf became the back of an animal. To
these natural features, the artists added lines, thereby transforming the
given into the created. Frequently these images appear to be coming out of
the rock wall. At Rouffignac, for instance, a horse’s head is painted on the
side of a protruding flint nodule. The rest of the horse is apparently
behind the rock face” (Lewis-Williams &
Clottes & Lewis-Williams, 1998/1996, p. 16). To some, these features suggest
a search for spirit animals that could become “allies” if they could be
drawn by shamans through a permeable “membrane” that separated the ordinary
and the non-ordinary worlds (ibid.). In the Niaux cave, for example, the
shadows cast across the rock can represent, to the expectant eye, the
outline of a bison; then only a few deft strokes were needed to add the rest
of the body. If the light is moved, the animal disappears back through the
“membrane.” The person has thus mastered the spirit animal; he or she can
make it come and go at will (p. 17). Once more, Berman (2000) cautions that
there are other explanations for the profusion of animal images, one of them
a simple desire to execute a naturalistic portrayal. Sometimes, grazing deer
are simply grazing deer (p. 31).
Symbolic or not, Winkelman (2000) points out that neuropsychology provides a
basis for these rock art motifs; hardwired neurologically structured
perceptual constants are the structural basis of these motifs, reflecting
perceptions obtained through shamanic states of consciousness. The animal
images reflect “the importance of neurognostic perspectives in understanding
shamanism” (p. 6). Clottes and Lewis-Williams (1998/1996) take a somewhat
extreme position, stating that “all shamanic activity and experience
necessarily take place within a particular kind of universe, or cosmos.
[But] the ways in which this shamanic cosmos is conceived are generated by
the human nervous system rather than by intellectual speculation or detached
observation of the environment” (p. 19). For me, neurognostic potentials and
social construction operate in tandem, and the ensuing dance produces a
phenomenon that needs to be examined from the vantage point of both
perspectives.
Commenting on the paintings themselves, Mithen (1996) deduces, “There is
nothing gradual about the evolution of the capacity for art: the very first
pieces that we find can be compared in quality with those produced by the
great artists of the Renaissance…. All that was needed was a connection
between these cognitive processes which had evolved for other tasks to
create the wonderful paintings in Chauvet Cave” which date back some 30,000
years (pp. 162-163). Also predating Lascaux was the extraction of decorative
red and black pigment from Bomvu Ridge in South Africa, some 40,000 years
ago (Boshier & Costello, 1975).
The magnificent distinctiveness of these works is noteworthy in view of
Ludwig’s (1992) proposition that “the visionary or magic function of these
media…was more important than esthetics” (p. 459).
“The shaman artist…employed carved masks, music and art for the
purposes of healing, negotiation with unseen spirits, exerting magical
influences on creatures, and depicting his [or her] adventures in the spirit
world” (ibid.). Again, neurognostic structures can be hypothesized to have
formed the basis for these creative products; Clottes (in Gore, 2000)
asserts “People can no longer say art evolved from crude beginnings” (p. 108
).
The sepia, black, and red ocher Chauvet, Altamira, and Lascaux paintings
might be symbolic. However, Berman (2000) offers an alternative: the
experience of these early humans was direct and immediate (p. 81). This
epistemology runs through many postmodern writings; for example, Globus
(1995) remarks, “We do not know reality, according to postmodernism, by
means of any representations of reality. We know reality directly and
immediately; there is nothing that gets between us and the reality we always
and already find ourselves in” (p. 127).
Modernity, in contrast, relies on representations of reality — mental and
neural representations that mediate between humanity and the world. In other
words, modern epistemologies assume that an investigator can provide a
near-identical match between words and the phenomena they attempt to
describe. Postmodern epistemologies assume that this type of representation
is impossible, and that symbolism, metaphor, and allegory provide better
descriptions of outer and inner experience and several descriptions, some of
them paradoxical, frequently are used to “deconstruct” a phenomenon in an
attempt to creatively fathom it.
Shamanic Epistemology
For the shaman, everything provided knowledge about everything else, and the
whole of being was “fundamentally an immense signal system” (Kalweit, 1992,
p. 77). Shamanic states of consciousness were the first steps toward
deciphering (or deconstructing) the signal system, and this was made
possible once humanity’s symbolic capacity matured. At that point “language
shifted from a social to a general-purpose function, consciousness from a
means to predict other individuals’ behavior to managing a mental database
of information relating to all domains of behavior. A cognitive fluidity
arose within the mind, reflecting new connections rather than new processing
power” (Mithen, 1996, p. 209). To this discussion of signal systems, I would
add that role-playing, as well as language, be considered a likely contender
as the mechanism for cognitive fluidity. Pretending and role-playing enable
people to represent the internal state of others, a skill that enables
cognitive cross-referencing to take place.
Clottes and Lewis-Williams (1998/1996) have proposed three stages of
shamanic consciousness. In Stage One, people move from alert consciousness
to a “light” alteration, beginning to experience geometric forms, meandering
lines, and other “phosphenes” or “form constants,” so named because they are
wired into the nervous system. For example, the Tukano of South America use
undulating lines of dots to represent the Milky Way, the goal of shamanic
journeying.
In Stage Two, people begin to attribute complex meanings to these
“constants,” and in Stage Three, these constants are combined with images of
people, animals, and mythical beings. Experients began to interact with
these images, often feeling themselves to be transformed into animals,
either completely or partially (e.g., the celebrated Les
Trois Freres animal/human); shamanic journeys are generally felt to be more
feasible in this form (p. 19). Various chambers of Upper Paleolithic caves
seem to have been restricted to advanced practitioners; some caves have
spacious chambers embellished with large, imposing images while elsewhere
there are often small, sparsely decorated diverticules into which only a few
people could congregate (p. 20).
From an epistemological perspective, the shaman gained knowledge from his or
her journeys into other realms of existence, and communicated the results to
members of the community (Flaherty, 1992, p. 185). Shamans provided
information from a database consisting of their dreams, visions, intuitions,
as well as their keen observations of the natural and social world.
Sansonese (1994) suggests that there was “a degree of genetic predisposition
for falling into trance” and that this ability made a significant
contribution to social evolution (p. 30). For example, there was a
succession of Indo-European shamans whose traditions included
parent-to-child transmissions of shamanic lore that, in turn,
institutionalized extended-family shamanic groups (ibid.).
The ability to manipulate symbols was essential in the interpretation of
dreams and visions as well as in the creation of myths. For Sansonese
(1994), “a myth is an esoteric description of a heightened proprioception”
(p. 36). “Myth describes a systematic exploration of the human body by
privileged members of archaic cultures. Myth springs from an age of
universal narcissism, rooted, one must suppose, in the elemental struggle
for survival.” (p. 37). Explanations were needed for birth, death, illness,
procreation, and other bodily phenomena, as well as for cyclones, forest
fires, floods, sunsets, eclipses, and the changes of seasons.
There were many contenders for survival millennia ago. However, Mithen
(1996) proposes that homo sapiens, who date from about 250,000 years ago
(Jerison, 1990, p. 10), had an evolutionary advantage over other early
humans. Homo sapiens sapiens were able to use symbolism in image-making and
storytelling, both of which were adaptive because they helped to make sense
of one’s body, one’s peers, and one’s environment.
Neanderthals were powerfully built, large brained people who seemed to
display an equivalent sophistication to modern humans in their manufacture
of stone tools, and had the vocal mechanisms needed for rudimentary speech.
But Neanderthals lived in inclement climates (Mithen, 1996, p. 125), were
prone to degenerate diseases (p. 126), and lacked the technology to sew
garments and — most curiously — the ability to produce elegant pictorial
images. There are a few pieces of pierced bone attributed to Neanderthals,
but even these artifacts are in doubt (p. 135). There is no conclusive
evidence that ritual was a part of Neanderthal burials, or that human-made
objects were placed within the graves (p. 136). In any event, the
Neanderthals disappeared less than 30,000 years ago (Tattersall, 1998). In
the meantime, with specialized intelligences that could effectively
communicate with each other, homo sapiens sapiens were probably unique among
early humans in their ability to symbolize, mythologize, and, eventually, to
shamanize.
Taussig (1987) describes the “inscription of a mythology in the Indian body”
where “power is invested” (p. 27), while Sansonese (1994) remarks,
“Something is being described in myth, something about the human body,
something essential to its workings but also truly technical and beyond mere
fetish” (p. 38). He also notes that “the development of myth parallels the
esoteric impulse in storytelling” (p. 38). The domination of homo sapiens
sapiens may have been due to their ability to take sensory and motor
activity, using it as a bridge to produce stories that assured their
survival (Boaz, 1997; Cavalli-Sforza & Cavalli-Sforza, 1995; Fagan, 1990;
Kingdon, 1993; Ruhlen, 1994;
Stringer & McKie, 1996).
The way people come to report the feeling states that arise within their own
bodies is incompletely understood (Lubinski & Thompson, 1993). Nevertheless,
these private events have been a prime source for the creation of myths by
the shaman and the community (Devereux, 1997). Lubinski and Thompson (1993)
have underscored the role of pharmacological agents in bringing internal
feeling states into awareness, citing animal research to buttress their
argument. Merkur’s (1998) description of “psychedelic ecstasies” includes
categories in which internal dialogues reflect feeling states invoked by
LSD-type drugs, while Nesse and Berridge (1997) have identified the
associated neural mechanisms, noting their evolutionary origins.
To the impact of external pharmacological agents, one might add the
contribution of the body’s own biochemistry, especially during rapid eye
movement (REM) sleep, often characterized by dreaming. Ullman (1987) claims
that REM sleep reflects a genetic imperative that often orients the
dreamer’s “felt connections to others” in the interest of species survival;
research with other organisms suggests that REM sleep or a precursor is the
earliest form of mammalian sleep (Siegel, 1997).
Hobson (1988), operating from a different paradigm, adds that dreaming is a
“behavioral state” that reflects an evolutionary specialization (pp.
112-113). He continues, “in dreams, problems are not only posed but
sometimes even solved” (p. 16) and somatic stimuli are one source of the
images that the brain converts into dream narratives (p. 46). I would
suggest that shamans were especially adroit in using dream and psychedelic
imagery to address and find solutions to the conundrums periodically faced
by members of their community and the group as a whole.
Shamanism and “Higher” States
Wilber (1981) notes that shamans were the first practitioners to
systematically access “higher” states of consciousness. He categorizes these
“higher” states as the “subtle” (those leading to enhanced mental imagery
both with form, e.g., angels, spirits; and without form, e.g., “white
light,” “music of the spheres”); the “causal” (those states in which there
are no longer any forms in one’s awareness, e.g., “pure awareness,” “the
void”); and the “absolute” (the state in which consciousness has experienced
its “true nature” and in which a “ground of being” is experienced).
According to Wilber the shamans’ focus has been on “subtle” states because
their technology was directed toward assisting other people with the images
obtained in their shamanic journeys.
Wilber (1981) has taken the position that consciousness not only unfolds
during the life-span of an individual, but during the evolution of humanity
in general, with some individuals representing the “farthest reaches” of
that development (p. 142). In his hierarchy of “higher” states of
consciousness, shamans are placed at the “subtle” level because their
technology, described as “crude” (p. 142), was directed toward assisting
others with the images and knowledge that was produced in shamanic journeys.
Wilber grants that an occasional shaman broke into the “causal” realm, but
insists that it was not until the emergence of the meditative and contemplat
ive traditions that “causal” and “absolute” states could be systematically
attained. This evolution of consciousness, according to Wilber, was not part
of a biological process but due to the development of such elements of
spiritual practice as “rigorous systems of ethics,” “emotional
transformation,” the “training of attention and concentration,” and the
“cultivation of wisdom.”
However, Eliade (1972/1951) found comparative examples of the oldest types
of Christian and Hindu mystical experience in Alaskan Eskimo shamanism.
Walsh (1990) found “rigorous systems of ethics” in those North American
shamanic traditions emphasizing compassion. He discovered “emotional
transformation” among Australian aboriginal shamanic initiation programs,
and “training of attention and concentration” among Eskimo initiates who
were subjected to a 30-day period of isolation where they were directed to
“think only of the Great Spirit.” Furthermore, Walsh found “cultivation of
wisdom” in Ainu, Cuna, and Zuni shamanic traditions where entire
mythologies, pharmacopoeia, and song cycles had to be memorized and
understood. After surveying the cross-cultural research, Coan (1987) warns,
“It would be a mistake to assume that shamanism represents just one stage
either in the evolution of human society or in the evolution of human
consciousness” (p. 62).
Brown and Engler (1986) administered Rorschach Inkblot Test to practitioners
of “mindfulness meditation,” discovering that their responses illustrated
their stages of meditative development, reflecting “the perceptual changes
that occur with intense meditation” (p. 193). One Rorschach was unique in
that the “advanced master” integrated all 10 inkblots into a single
associative theme (p.191). However, Klopfer and Boyer (1961) had obtained a
similar protocol from an Apache shaman. This shaman used the inkblots to
teach the examiner about his lived worldview and his ecstatic flights
through the universe. Brown and Engler (1986) suggested that this may be a
response that, regardless of the spiritual tradition, points “a way for
others to ‘see’ reality more clearly in such a way that it alleviates their
suffering” (p. 214).
Moreover, a careful reading of Wilber (1983) suggests a limited familiarity
with the literature on shamanism. He refers to Eliade’s (1972/1951)
Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy as “the definitive study of the
subject” (p. 70). Yet, it takes nothing away from the importance of this
pioneering work to suggest that Eliade “did not address the subject matter
in the appropriate cultural context” (Ripinsky-Naxon, 1993, p. 11). For
example, Eliade displayed “personal bias” in using the term “degenerate” to
describe the use of mind-altering substances by shamans, failing to
“recognize the critical role of hallucinogens” in many forms of shamanism
(p. 103).
In addition, Wilber (1981) makes such sweeping generalizations that it is
hard to believe that he recognizes the varieties of shamanic experience. He
calls the bird “the classic symbolism of shamanism” (p. 70), although in
some shamanic societies, the deer or the bear is the central totem (e.g.,
Ripinsky-Naxon, 1993). Wilber claims that the “true” shamanic experience
involves “a severe crisis” (pp. 73-74) although there are accounts of
shamanic callings that do not involve physical, emotional, or spiritual
catastrophes (e.g., Krippner & Welch,
1992). Indeed, the shamanic “crisis” could well be a political strategy that
limits the number of contenders for the shamanic role in those societies
that demand it.
Wilber describes shamanism as a “religion,” albeit one that is “extremely
crude, very unrefined, and not highly evolved” (p. 75), placing it at the
fifth level of an eight-level spectrum (p. 253). But most writers on
shamanism focus on its technologies, its worldviews, and its ways of knowing
rather than on its resemblance to institutionalized religions (Harner, 1980;
Krippner & Welch, 1992). Indeed, there are Buddhist shamans, Islamic
shamans, Christian shamans, and neo-pagan shamans. At most, shamanic
practices have led to religious syncreticism (Ripinsky-Naxon, 1993, p. 207),
e.g., Tibetan Buddhism and Taoism reflect earlier shamanic practices. By
writing about “the true shaman” (p. 76) rather than of shamans and shamanic
experiences (Heinze, 1991; Walsh, 1990), Wilber focuses on a hypothetical
figure and that has been socially constructed over the ages. He could have
served his purposes better by spreading his net more widely, catching and
evaluating an assortment of practitioners and social groups who have
manifested so-called “subtle” states over the millennia.
Wilber probably would consider María Sabina’s veladas typical “subtle” state
imagery, but what could María Sabina have chanted that would have been more
meaningful to her clients and more descriptive of her work?
These are my children,
These are my babies,
These are my offshoots,
My buds,
I am only asking, examining,
About His business as well,
I begin in the depth of the water,
I begin where the primordial sounds forth,
Where the sacred sounds forth.
I am a little woman who goes through the water,
I am a little woman who goes through the stream,
I bring my light,
Ah, Jesus Christ,
Medicinal herbs and sacred herbs of Christ,
I’m going to thunder,
I’m going to play music,
I’m going to shout,
I’m going to whistle,
It’s a matter of tenderness, a matter of clarity,
There is no resentment,
There is no rancor,
There is no argument,
There is no anger,
It is life and well-being. (Estrada, 1981, abridged, pp. 136, 150-151, 165,
175)
In these brief excerpts from María Sabina’s veladas, we find a woman who
goes into the primordial waters of oceanic consciousness. However, she does
not stay there because her orientation is toward service, toward healing,
toward her community, and toward the children and babies to whom she strives
to bring life and well-being.
Obviously, there is no way of knowing if María Sabina had reached the
“causal” or “absolute” realm of Wilber’s hierarchy. If so, what knowledge
would she have obtained that would have been more useful to her in her
mission than the symbolic images and metaphors that emanated in her veladas?
Nor is Coan (1987) impressed by Wilber’s “sharp dichotomy” (p. 143); the
shaman can use many dimensions of consciousness at different times for
different purposes. No shamanic performance is ever exactly the same!
These veladas demonstrate María Sabina’s shamanic ways of knowing by means
of the “sacred herbs” that facilitate her journey through the “heart” and
through the “water,” bringing her “light” and “tenderness” in the service of
“life and well-being.” Here we have an example of the shamanic images “that
are directed at reestablishing and maintaining a balanced relationship
between nature and the community and at caring for the spiritual and
physical welfare of its members” (Ripinsky-Naxon, 1993, p. 207). The veladas
also provide examples of ritual as social performance (V. Turner, 1968) and
of symbols that seem to “trigger” healing (E. Turner, 1992). From a
postmodern perspective, it is merely an intellectual exercise to arrange
such manifestations of consciousness on a scale of “lower” to “higher”
without considering the demands of a local situation at a particular moment
in time.
Discussion
Western science is characterized by a search for satisfactory explanations
of “reality.” This search is achieved by statements of general principles;
these can be tested experimentally or through repeated observations
(Goldstein & Goldstein, 1978). Shamanic epistemology also attempts to
explain “reality,” employs repeated observations, and makes statements about
general principles. However, credence is given to revelation and inspiration
from the “spirit world,” from plant and animal “allies,” and from “journeys”
associated with changed states of consciousness. A provocative example is
the complex brew ayahuasca, which goes by many other names, depending on the
part of the Amazon where it is used. Shamans have imbibed ayahuasca for
hundreds of years, but its origin remains a mystery to Western
investigators. Some tribes attribute this knowledge to spiritual beings from
subaquatic realms, others to the intervention of giant serpents (Luna &
White, 2000).
Narby (1998) comments, “Here are people without electron microscopes who
choose, among 80,000 Amazonian plant species, the leaves of a bush
containing a…brain hormone, which they combine with a vine containing
substances that inactivate an enzyme of the digestive tract, which would
otherwise block the effect. And they do this to modify their consciousness.
It is as if they knew about the molecular properties of plants and the art
of combining them, and when one asks them how they knew these things, they
say their knowledge comes directly from [the] plants” (p. 11). For three
decades, I worked with an intertribal medicine man and shamanic healer,
Rolling Thunder. When I asked him how he was able to identify the curative
power of plants he had never used previously, he told me, “I ask the plant
what it is good for. Some plants are only meant to be beautiful. Other
plants are meant for food. Still others are to be used as medicine. Once a
healing plant has spoken to me, I ask its permission to take it with me and
add it to my medicine pouch.” Rolling Thunder’s epistemology was remarkably
similar to that of the Amazonian shamans who work with ayahuasca.
In a world beset by quandaries and crises, survival no longer depends upon
the process of natural selection or chance mutations, but rather on
intentional deliberations and conscientious decision-making. Western
modernity has failed to build a universal human culture upon a foundation of
abstract rational thought. Humanity can not repeat the past, but
postmodernity would do well to reconsider the personal, metaphorical
language that the Royal Society of London deliberately scuttled in its
attempt to produce a universal language of objective and unequivocal symbols
(Mahoney & Albert, 1997, p. 23). The failure of this project ignored one of
the points permeating this essay: language makes use of the same structures
as those involved in sensorimotor activity; these structures take the form
of analog models of reality, and the resulting images ground humankind’s
concepts, constructs, and intentions.
Vandervert’s model (1996) provides a “neuro-epistemological” framework for
this proposition; he writes that “the neuro-algorithmic organization of the
phylogenetic brain is that which evolved originally as the algorithms for
perception, learning-memory, cognition, and emotion-motivation involved in
the struggle for survival” (p. 82). These representations are reflected in
shamanic technologies which, first and foremost, were devoted to finding
game animals, locating and using medicinal plants, determining the best time
to plant and harvest crops, and other matters of daily survival. Shamanic
technologies also had spiritual uses, but contemporary Westerners often
emphasize the transcendental side of shamanism to the neglect of its
practical aspects.
Vandervert (1997) proposes that “image-schemas” (see Mandler, 1988) are not
tantamount to the organism’s storehouse of images, but the space-time
representations that co-exist with perceptual processes, both of which
precede mental imagery. These space-time simulation structures are genetic
in origin and are responsible for the state-estimating functions that are
connected to the cerebrum’s mapping systems. The resulting image-schemas are
whetted by experience as well as by developmental processes.
Vandervert’s proposal that image-schemas represent “foundational meanings”
(p. 111) is reminiscent of Jung’s description of “archetypes,” the
structural predispositions that allegedly provide the organizing principles
for consciousness and behavior. These image-schemas collectively represent
what Vandervert considers to be a “calculus” of archetypal processing. Such
image-schematic processing, although a process of natural selection, had the
immanent potential to lead to emergent future state estimates (i.e.,
nonlinear simulations) that extended beyond purely naturally selected
states. This combination
of image-schematic elements extended beyond the selective mechanism that
evoked them. In this way, image-schematic simulations imparted a freedom
beyond natural selection that provided a world of potentially new paths for
human intention.
The nervous system evolved in ways that enabled it to foresee many future
events, and rapid simulation was the basic approach to survival-conducive
prediction (Fox, 1988, pp. 160-161). The nervous system’s ability to produce
such simulation structures as image-schemas permitted anticipatory,
feedforward processing (see Pribram, 1991, chap. 6). For Vandervert,
image-schemas represent the foundational structures needed “for
modeling/mapping functions conducive for survival.” Without this ability to
make estimates of future conditions, vertebrate organisms could not have
survived to reproduce (pp. 114-155). According to Vandervert, these
processes originated in the cerebellum but eventually involved “the entire
mapping machinery of the brain” (p. 118); the auditory-vocal sharing of
image-schematics eventually led to language (p. 120).
I would propose that the image-schemas of those men and women who a
community held to be shamanic practitioners were especially adept when
prediction was demanded. Game needed to be located, weather patterns needed
to be forecast, enemy movements needed to be anticipated, and flight paths
needed to be discovered. These tasks required feedforward processing, and
the shamanic fine-tuning of image-schemas through heightened perception
and/or changed states of consciousness may have assisted this assignment.
Such neurognostic frameworks are needed to coalesce human neurophysiology
with human epistemology, and to explore what Chalmers (1996) refers to as
“the hard problem”: how consciousness arises from physical systems. “While
evolution can be very useful in explaining why particular physical systems
have evolved, it is irrelevant to the explanation of the bridging principles
in virtue of which some of these systems are conscious” (p. 121).
One final example from the life of María Sabina demonstrates these
image-schemas. When she was called to shamanize, doña María received the
image of an open book that grew until it reached the size of a person. She
was told that “This is the Book of Wisdom. It is the Book of Language.
Everything that is written in it is for you. The Book is yours, take it so
that you can work.” In accepting this call, doña María became a “woman of
language” and what Rothenberg (1981) calls a “great oral poet” (p. 10).
Now may be the time to reconsider the ways of knowing exemplified by doña
María, and their sources in imagination, intuition, visions, dreams, the
senses, and the body.3 Perhaps these ways of knowing can enter into tandem
with intellect and reason to construct cooperative and collaborative
lifestyles for the pluralistic world in which we live, a world which
shamanic epistemology would appreciate and enjoy.
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method and theory (pp. 393-428). Westport, CT: Greenwood.

REPRINT REQUESTS should be sent to the author at Saybrook Graduate School,
#300, 450 Pacific Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94133.

This study was supported by the Saybrook Graduate School and Research Center
Chair for the Study of Consciousness in honor of Dr. Stanley Krippner. The
publication reference is:
Krippner, S. (2000). The epistemology and technologies of shamanic states of
consciousness. Journal of Consciousness Studies, 7, 93-118.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 6, 2004 at 11:07:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey,hello dear Sean,
Thankyou for your raw honesty and courage.
The fact that you told all, tells me that you are on the right path.
May the angels of light lift you and help you for your highest good.

I understand as do many others,I will think positively of you,and just said
a prayer. Every little bit helps. It would be really good if you could move out of the area
that has negative history for you.I know doing this is not easy,however as you know it helps enormously,
to make change more effective.             smiles Jasen (aus)

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 6, 2004 at 8:58:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean.

That is funny, I know a guy who was going back in 1975 and he went to NA (detroit Area) and said they had people come in drunk and say “My name is John S and I’m drunk right now.”  When I was going back in the about 1988 they would say if you used in the last 24 hours please sit at the first step table, usually but not always.  They even said if your drunk come on in.

I had a bad problem of listening to everyone else and when the meeting was over an overwhelming desire to go use.  I mean I could not help it.  Anl like I said the old timers in AA did not welcome NA at all.  In the hospital detox where a meeting took place is was mixed.  But some of the old guys wanted nothing to do with us junkies.

I just wonder if they were born 20 years later would then be a Bud guy or a bud guy.  Or even a little H or Coke, whatever.  I believe a lot is determined by who you hung around with and what was going down at the time.  In the fifties H or LSD was not really on the street as it was in the 60s.  But what the hell, I guess each person must find what works for them.  I can say that some of the most hard core drunkest of the drunk just quit on their own.  No Thepary, no meeting, they just said I have had enough and never touched it again.  I know others who have been in  prison for 4 to 10 years for the 8th drunk driving ticket and they still haven’t stopped.  I can understand that but they don’t want to stop.  They are also killing themselves medically.  Thing is I know the guy since we were about 8 years old and we still keep in touch.  He has been to more 90 day detox and fix ya places than anyone I know.  It hurts to see your friend like that.  However, I realise that there in nothing I can do.  I will listen to him and make suggestions but that’s all I can do.  He is killing himself, has many medical problems.  I say “If it were not for the grace of God go I”.  No, I did not put that in there to piss you off, I just feel that way.  As you know we think different but allow each other their opinions and beliefs there is no problem.  But that could of been me.  As well as the others who OD or died in car accidents.  Hey, life is strange, I don’t have all the answers.  I sometimes wonder if I have any.  But I can honestly say I have helped a few people out in my time.

As always it is good to hear from you.

Take care good Buddy

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

Always get a lot out your posts.  In North Jersey, the NA secretary says something like,”if you used any drug form Michaloab to methadone, you may not share at this meeting.

NA and AA do differ from region to region. Glad your area was not so closed minded.

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Addiction Biology March 2004. Many interesting items on addiction topics.
Date: September 6, 2004 at 8:29:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: Addiction Biology March 2004. Many interesting items on addiction
topics.

Dear Colleagues,
This journal contains a bumper crop of research, practicalities and
history lessons.

The two lead items are invited reviews which initially seem rather
esoteric, being about cellular changes in the bone marrow and brain
cells of alcoholics. However, on closer reading, the first authors
delineate the evolving evidence of very specific changes in red cells
due to alcohol’s first metabolite, acetaldehyde. The second item is on
genetic alterations in neuronal cells following exposure to alcohol.
While neither is even remotely practical presently, both are more than
distant ‘shots in the dark’ at causation of the ‘permanent’ changes
which occur in the alcohol dependent state.

There are three items on naltrexone, none a scientific trial, sorry to
say. One is a useful report from London of a hepatitis B/C
seroconversion case which seemed to run a benign course in spite of
being concurrently on naltrexone, which was continued, albeit under
close supervision and observation. It would seem that this report, plus
the passage of time should reduce fears of naltrexone-related hepatitis.
Such fears are largely based on a small number of cases of high-dose
naltrexone-treated bulimia cases with elevated transaminases reported
some years ago. These would now seem to be of less immediate concern to
opioid treatment at usual doses of 50mg daily orally.

The positive results often reported by naltrexone ‘enthusiasts’ are not
always borne out in independent studies. The group from Perth has
largely upbeat things to report about their experience with naltrexone
implants and maintenance of ‘adequate’ serum levels of the drug. But
their methodology lacks a prospective scientific protocol. The evolving
slow-release subcutaneous pellets appear not to have been standardised
nor independently validated prior to their use in this private medical
practice. It is also disappointing that the authors do not define their
selection criteria for long-term naltrexone implant treatment in opioid
dependency cases.

This edition of Addiction Biology also contains abstracts presented at
the annual meeting of the (centenarian) Society for the Study of
Addiction. They reveal the cornucopia of treatment possibilities under
the remnants of the “British system” of controlled drug prescription.
This belies the real world of tragically limited interventions available
in the field through the National Health System for drug and alcohol
dependent patients in England – and long waiting lists to see addiction
specialists. Most glaring is the reportedly grossly inadequate doses and
lack of supervision given to methadone maintenance patients in most
centres and in general practice.

Abstracts report on buprenorphine uptake – which is increasing steadily
in England (11% of all maintenance prescriptions in 2002 – up from 5% in
2001) but is still unavailable in some areas, partly due to the high
cost. A report on buprenorphine in 11 pregnancies mirrors other small
reports of good outcomes with shorter and milder neonatal withdrawals
(cf. G. Fischer). Transfer from up to 70mg methadone to buprenorphine
was satisfactorily accomplished in 28 hospitalised patients using
lofexidine (Glasper, Bearn et al). Benzodiazepine use in opioid
maintenance as well as in withdrawals is examined in two papers from
London. Oxazepam (Serepax) is tested against diazepam for prevention of
seizures in alcohol withdrawal, and found wanting, possibly due to its
shorter action. Cannabis use is surveyed in a large number of multiple
sclerosis patients, finding widespread use for symptom relief (one in
five) and only minor side effects. A retrospective analysis of ADD
diagnoses in addiction cases showed a high prevalence, suggesting the
need for further evaluation of this factor in research into the
aetiology of addiction.

Dextromoramide (Palfium) is sometimes used for opioid maintenance when
other drugs are unsuitable (Holland, Australia, UK). The need for an
equivalence table is broached by Strang and colleagues, also pointing
out the difficulties in such attempts. Using 13 cases (mean dose 233mg,
range 40-800mg daily) who were forced to transfer due to the drug
becoming unavailable for commercial reasons, Strang and colleagues found
a ratio of 1:1.35 equivalence to 24 hour morphine. They also describe a
single case taking 1800mg dextromoramide daily plus large amounts of
temazepam. The patient transferred in hospital and stabilized on 900mg
methadone daily, a very large dose by any means, being over ten times
the mean daily dose in New South Wales and about 25 times the mean dose
reportedly used in the UK! Yet even higher doses of methadone (up to
1200mg) have been reported. If one takes methadone to morphine (24 hour
total) equivalence as 1:4, then this equates to a dextromoramide to
morphine ratio of 1:2 by my reckoning. Such large opioid doses were
first described by Thomas de Quincey in his book Confessions of an
English Opium Eater (32 grains daily, as laudanum)*.

*My review available on request.

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm
For ‘opera reviews’ or ‘dependency briefings’ send email request.
Author of: “Addict in the Family” and
“Methadone in the Treatment of Narcotic Addiction”
http://www.csdp.org/addict/
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/byrne_contents_methadone2.cfm

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean
Date: September 6, 2004 at 8:04:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I left my phone at home accidentally and went downtown I just got home and it has no battery. Sorry didn’t mean to be flaky. I’ll call you as soon as i have some juice. -M.

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Callie,

Thanks for the support!  I really have to tell myself that I’m not going back, period, though, no just for today about it.  I really do believe that giving into using thoughts is still a choice.  I gave in this weekend.  I’m not today.  And really do not intend too tomorrow.  Finding out why I am so unhappy that I turn to drugs is of interest to me/I really do feel that Preston’s post hit the nail on the head.  I am a shitty spot right now, and drugs can seemed like a way to make my reality less painful.

The reality, though, is they don’t work for me anymore. If they did, I really think I would be out using today, and not sitting at this computer.  I strongly desire to keep forward.  In fact I think my life depends on it.  Slaves didn’t say freedom just for today, did they?  No, they and their descendants on the US have been saying can’t go back for over hundred years now.

Anyway, it’s good to type this.  I’m really convincing myself.  Thanks for always being there Callie.  This list has really made a hard time a little easier.

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 6, 2004 at 5:38:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Glad you didn’t give in to the thoughts!  Also glad you are learning other ways to deal with your pain. Chronic pain, I have learned from you and others on this list, sounds like a bitch to live with.  But you are doing it.  Without the bag and rig.

Thanks again for the support!

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 6, 2004 at 5:27:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wrote >It’s weird, but today I had my first faintly serious thoughts of
how easy
it’d be to just buy one rig and throw it away after use.<

But then, I sorta had an exucse, as I just had a broken root canal in the
back left part of my lower jaw cut out last Thursday morning, and it is
still killing me today- I’m dreading a dry socket forming or something. It
hurts still and is really bothering me a lot, but I’ve managed to stay under
my prescribed dosages of any and all pain killers. I did wind up filling a
script for percocets and using those in addition to my normal scripts, as my
normal scripts didn’t seem to doing anything at all for my face pain
although it’s great for the other pains. The percs, for the very first time
in my entire life, actually seemed to be working on my face rather well, and
prescribed 6 a day max I did 3 to 4. I ran out today. Damn it. It still
hurts though, so I’m a little nervous- not to mention grouchy.
Oh, and good to see you posting Sean.
Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….

How do you feel today, physically speaking??  I have
heard the one month point is dangerous for relapsing,
even without the Ibogaine therapy…<

It’s weird, but today I had my first faintly serious thoughts of how easy
it’d be to just buy one rig and throw it away after use. But didn’t do so.
It’s not been a month since my last treatment either, but still…
Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Sean….

Sean,

How do you feel today, physically speaking??  I have
heard the one month point is dangerous for relapsing,
even without the Ibogaine therapy…

Drugs have a powerful beckoning voice.  I forget who
it was, but someone on this list put it well:  Don’t
let the monkey on your back get louder than the music
in your heart…

love Julie  🙂

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?-Preston
Date: September 6, 2004 at 2:50:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Holy sh*t, dude…wow, that’s a lot of ‘cid…Maybe it
just comes down to the underlying psychology of each
individual; that is, if you’re unbalanced chemically
to begin with(and I don’t mean YOU, Preston- you sound
very cool), maybe acid just amplifies that by 1000.

I’d be interested in hearing some of your stories, if
ya don’t mind (time permitting, of course).  I love
tripping, just was always able to blastoff on smaller
amounts of psychedelics…Selling cid in Paris- WOW,
what a cool life you’ve had!

Oh and BTW, I enjoyed reading your Ibo story- Howard
notified me today that he posted three new stories-
yours, mine, and someone else- I don’t know who.  I
can totally relate to the non-horny, sex thing- my
boyfriend was wondering if there was something wrong
with him, cuz we wouldn’t fool around for extensive
periods of time.  I love the guy so much- he just
doesn’t understand the opiate thing, cuz he’s never
done oppies: more of an E/stimulant kind of guy.

OK, here’s the link for the new stories:

http://www.ibogaine.org/treatment.html

New stories have a flashing sign beside them.

Cheers,
Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean
Date: September 6, 2004 at 2:49:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Thanks for the support!  I really have to tell myself that I’m not going back, period, though, no just for today about it.  I really do believe that giving into using thoughts is still a choice.  I gave in this weekend.  I’m not today.  And really do not intend too tomorrow.  Finding out why I am so unhappy that I turn to drugs is of interest to me/I really do feel that Preston’s post hit the nail on the head.  I am a shitty spot right now, and drugs can seemed like a way to make my reality less painful.

The reality, though, is they don’t work for me anymore. If they did, I really think I would be out using today, and not sitting at this computer.  I strongly desire to keep forward.  In fact I think my life depends on it.  Slaves didn’t say freedom just for today, did they?  No, they and their descendants on the US have been saying can’t go back for over hundred years now.

Anyway, it’s good to type this.  I’m really convincing myself.  Thanks for always being there Callie.  This list has really made a hard time a little easier.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 6, 2004 at 2:47:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How do you feel today, physically speaking??  I have
heard the one month point is dangerous for relapsing,
even without the Ibogaine therapy…<

It’s weird, but today I had my first faintly serious thoughts of how easy
it’d be to just buy one rig and throw it away after use. But didn’t do so.
It’s not been a month since my last treatment either, but still…
Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Sean….

Sean,

How do you feel today, physically speaking??  I have
heard the one month point is dangerous for relapsing,
even without the Ibogaine therapy…

Drugs have a powerful beckoning voice.  I forget who
it was, but someone on this list put it well:  Don’t
let the monkey on your back get louder than the music
in your heart…

love Julie  🙂

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 6, 2004 at 2:32:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Each of these stories seems to have one thing in
common: MASSIVE, RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of ac*d scarfed in
an extraordinarily short amount of time.  Which leads
me to ask: WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT???<

Ummm, well, to be honest, to trip of course. I’ve done similar amounts to
that “50 hits of LSD in 3 days” story,(and greater once or twice) waaaay
back when I was selling LSD in Paris. I got to the point where even if I
doubled my dose (say, ate 12-15 very, very strong, Pink Panther blotters,
back in 1984-85, at once) I’d not feel it, not even a twinge. I had to wait
2 days, and then be able to trip again each third day- which I was doing for
a good year, tripping on one hell of a lot of very good LSD every third day
(err, or night, whichever, didn’t really matter, I’d trip when I was
physically able to) for about a year or so. I did it and then tried to
behave normally, putting myself into the most awkward, weird,
dealing-with-officials situations as I could. I LOVED it.
But then, I like tripping- a lot. I realize some folks might think me
weird and off-kilter, but I think that despite my appearance I’m a pretty
rational sane fellow- other than for liking drugs of course, and we all know
that means I’m SICK and perverted and such. Oh yeah, I just gotta have me
some more treatment too. ‘Cause I’m diseased.
Hmmm.
Peace and love,
Preston
(oh yeah, and I usually, by the end, wanted to take MORE. Shrooms are the
only thing I trip on that make me feel uncomfortable at the end for some
reason- in remarkable likeness to withdrawals. That’s Weird, I know.)

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?

Randy,

Wow- yeah, I know a dude from British Colombia who ate
50 hits in about three days, and ended up in a mental
hospital for over 3 years!!

Each of these stories seems to have one thing in
common: MASSIVE, RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of ac*d scarfed in
an extraordinarily short amount of time.  Which leads
me to ask: WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT???

I’ve always been able to get off on only 1-2 hits,
maximum.  And even then, the trip was long and taxing,
especially towards the end.

Some people have weird motivations when doing drugs;
it’s like maybe these dudes were chemically imbalanced
to begin with, and the huge influx of LSD just threw
them off kilt…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 6, 2004 at 2:31:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 07:37 AM, jon f. wrote:

“Today, a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy
condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness
experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is
only a dream and we’re the imagination of ourselves.”

“Here’s Tom with the weather.”

fucking beautiful man! YES!

_.dh

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 6, 2004 at 2:13:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 11:12 PM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Mindvoxians, what about LSD? I know a guy, and I think everyone else knows someone like this, who after tripping on some real strong LSD, never came back. He’s been very schizzo ever since. I knew this guy well in jr. high and high school. He was a little weird but basically a pretty cool guy. That LSD was some gold colored window pane and it was as strong as anything I ever did. Seemed like pure LSD to me. How could LSD cause this guy to lose it? I mean this dude has never held a job. Word is he bought 30 hits and basically ate them all in about a week. It was definitely 4 way. I personally cut one in 4 pieces and watched 3 people and myself get a mild buzz. Strong yea, but I always thought LSD was pretty tame as far as real damage was concerned. This dude still thinks the devil is gonna fuck him at any time. That was in 75. Just a random brain spasm from me. Randy

Yep, I know someone like this. I think he is currently in a federal penitentary for threatening the life of Bill Clinton.

I think some people are not capable of handling huge doses (of any size for that matter) and just blip out. Perhaps underlying psychosis or mental instability is multiplied by a large dose.

Another friend of mine accidentally ate a mop up piece of bread (the people making sheets of blotter ran out and used the bread to mop up the remaining doses… there was anywhere from 100 to 150 300mcg doses on that bread. He was discovered by the SFPD climbing a tree naked in Golden Gate Panhandle. They locked him up and later released him in the custody of friends. He fried for about 5 days, came down, slept 2 days and then was his normal old self again, well he did have a bit of a wild look in his eye but from outside appearances, he was intact.

_.dh

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Sean
Date: September 6, 2004 at 1:56:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean, So you used crack?! Let it go. Start a new day today.
I really hate cocaine!! It is pure evil! You only feel good for a few seconds then the rebound ‘down’ time is 500 times in the opposite direction…..right down to hell!
You know, I read somewhere that Ibogaine was never intended to treat coke addiction. I think you have reemphasized that fact and hopefully you and others who also use cocaine will build a support system to help you prevent going on a coke binge again! By realizing that Ibogaine may not touch your coke addiction, you can put together a plan to put in action when the desire is strong and you are not strong enough to fight it by yourself.
Sometimes the slogans from NA and AA that get under my skin are really what I need to hear. You stated, “Like I said, I’m not going back.” How about adding today to the end of that sentence.
Personally I have to keep things very simple or as simple as possible, in order to be able to reach my goal and be successful. I can’t say I will NEVER use again but I can say I will not use today or even simpler, I will not use before suppertime.
I also want to encourage you to take advantage of the family support you have. They love you so much and would probably be willing to spend time with you while you are wanting to use. If you have the desire to use, head over to their house and talk to them about it.
Write the pros and cons of using now down on paper, take a hot shower and some Benadryl (to help you relax). Try to watch a movie…….You make the list of what  might intervene
I love ya Sean and I feel bad that you went back out BUT you are back ‘in’ today! 🙂 Try to stay ‘in’ today!
Hugs! Callie.

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 6, 2004 at 1:37:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Randy,

Wow- yeah, I know a dude from British Colombia who ate
50 hits in about three days, and ended up in a mental
hospital for over 3 years!!

Each of these stories seems to have one thing in
common: MASSIVE, RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of ac*d scarfed in
an extraordinarily short amount of time.  Which leads
me to ask: WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT???

eheh… i was just watching a Bill Hicks routine about that last night….

You know what I mean. Always that same LSD story, you’ve all seen it.

“Young man on acid, thought he could fly, jumped out of a building. What a
tragedy.”

What a dick, fuck him!

He’s an idiot. If he thought he could fly, why didn’t he take off from the
ground first? Check it out.

You don’t see ducks lining up to catch elevators to fly South. They fly
from the ground, you moron. Quit ruining it for everybody. He’s a moron,
he’s dead, good. We lost a moron, fucking celebrate.

Boy I just felt the world get lighter – we lost a moron.

Put on the Hammer album, I’m ready to dance!

[dances]

“We lost a moron.” I don’t mean to sound cold or cruel or vicious, but I
am so that’s the way it comes out. Professional help is being sought.

How about a positive LSD story? Wouldn’t that be news-worthy, just the
once? To base your decision on information rather than scare tactics and
superstition and lies? I think it would be news-worthy.

“Today, a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy
condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness
experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is
only a dream and we’re the imagination of ourselves.”

“Here’s Tom with the weather.”

=)

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 6, 2004 at 1:26:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

That was Dave H.  Very wise words.  Feeling a little better thanks.

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Sean….
Date: September 6, 2004 at 1:11:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

How do you feel today, physically speaking??  I have
heard the one month point is dangerous for relapsing,
even without the Ibogaine therapy…

Drugs have a powerful beckoning voice.  I forget who
it was, but someone on this list put it well:  Don’t
let the monkey on your back get louder than the music
in your heart…

love Julie  🙂

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 6, 2004 at 1:05:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the supportive post.  I always said this list rocks.:)  Seriously if I am grateful for anything in life right now it is for this list, and my supportive friends and family who never gave up on me.

I am still feeling very sad at the moment, but hopeful too.  Like I said, I’m not going back.  Thanks again for being there.

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 6, 2004 at 12:54:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,

Your email was very touching…Don’t beat yourself up
about the relapse, as relapsing is just another
important step to getting clean permanently.  In
reality, a lot of us are going to relapse over and
over- relapsing tends to put things into perspective.

How do you feel today?  Be strong, and remember: you
have a strong support system here.  This list rocks
with good people!

love Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 6, 2004 at 12:45:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

Wow- yeah, I know a dude from British Colombia who ate
50 hits in about three days, and ended up in a mental
hospital for over 3 years!!

Each of these stories seems to have one thing in
common: MASSIVE, RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of ac*d scarfed in
an extraordinarily short amount of time.  Which leads
me to ask: WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT???

I’ve always been able to get off on only 1-2 hits,
maximum.  And even then, the trip was long and taxing,
especially towards the end.

Some people have weird motivations when doing drugs;
it’s like maybe these dudes were chemically imbalanced
to begin with, and the huge influx of LSD just threw
them off kilt…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 6, 2004 at 12:33:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,

It’s very heard to send this post.  I used crack last night one month after ibogaine treatment.  It’s really weird, but Frank had just sent me a post this week warning me that the metabolites or whatever would be wearing off soon and I would probably urge…and in fact I did urge real hard and used.

Of course, as I have already written, I started getting thoughts to use one week after treatment, but I managed to not give in to them.  This time I did.  I almost wanted to unsubscribe form this list and put ibogaine down to “another thing that did not work,” but thought better of it.  I was told that ibogaine is a tool for change, not a “miracle drug.”  It is still me that has do the work to change.

I was so depressed that I slept all day yesterday.  I have many old tapes of going back to NA meetings, having “failed” again. I think if tears came more easily to me, I would be crying today.

But is a bright beautiful sunny day here in North Jersey. I am not using today and don’t want to.  I just called Marc.  We had run into each other Saturday night after I had already picked up.  I’m caught between being hopeful and totally fatalistic.
Between the HIV and the HepC, I could very easily give in to the natural disease processes, stop all treatment, and let nature take it’s course.  And just give up, smoke crack, come down with junk, and give in to my addictions too.

But damn it I won’t.  I really don’t want to die.  And deep down there really is a part of me that wants to not just simply not die, but to truly live.

In this part of the US the day after Labor Day is back to school time.  I think it is programmed into me all these years later that this time of year is the time of new starts, a chance to begin anew.

I wrote to another list member that if he used after ibo, it would only be sad because he wanted to get clean, and he had a setback.  He was not an “ibogaine failure,” because one person does not say anything about a treatment, except that the treatment stopped working or did not work for that one person.

I look at all the people on this list for whom ibogaine did work for, and I convinced that it can be an effective addiction interrupter.  Hell it interrupted my 20 year crack addiction for a month.  I obviously did not have a good enough plan together for when those really hard and screaming crack urges returned.

Am I sorry I tried ibogaine?  Hell no.  The fact that I want to get back to crack free dope free living right away is a change in itself.  I am putting a together a strong plan to get through the next time.  And I am continuing therapy to find the root causes of this damn addiction.  I am not going back again, no way.

Thanks,
sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: How Marc Emery’s Guilty Plea Endangers Us All
Date: September 6, 2004 at 12:05:19 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No comments from me…yet.

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Peace and love,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steve Kubby” <steve@kubby.com>
To: <dpfca@drugsense.org>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:43 AM
Subject: How Marc Emery’s Guilty Plea Endangers Us All

HOW MARC EMERY’S GUILTY PLEA ENDANGERS US ALL

Despite his many heroic deeds and great contributions to the cannabis
movement, Marc Emery has done us all a disservice by pleading guilty to
trafficking.  All cannabis users are endangered as police and
prosecutors hear about Marc’s conviction and decide to arrest others
for “trafficking,” just for passing a joint.  Marc should never had
pled guilty and he certainly should have objected when his lawyer pled
guilty for him.  By his own admission, Marc accepted a guilty plea,
because he thought his lawyer had arranged a really good plea bargain.
Guess what?  There is no such thing as a good plea bargain.  Marc needs
to get off his pitty potty and fight, fight, fight!  If I were Marc, I
would follow Ed Pearson’s advice and file a Writ of Habeas Corpus to
force the court to examine the Parker decision to determine that the
law has fallen and that the court had no authority to revive a dead
law.  In the meantime, I am forwarding a reprint of my “Advice to
Defendants,” reprinted from one of the USA’s top legal journals, the
Los Angeles Daily Journal (CA), Website: http://www.dailyjournal.com/

=================================================

OPED: Advice To Defendants
by Steve Kubby, National Director, American Medical Marijuana Assoc.

I receive several requests a week from defendants who suddenly find
themselves forced to defend their lives, their right to use medical
cannabis and even the Bill of Rights. This advice is intended to help
medical cannabis patients defend themselves against a predatory
criminal justice system that judges them guilty, until proved
innocent.

Here are the key concepts you must master to win:

1. NON-COOPERATION WITH TYRANNY IS A DUTY. America was founded on
the premise that we have inalienable rights that cannot be separated
from us by any law or government. The Drug War is unconstitutional,
immoral, and no longer supported by voters or juries. Your
non-cooperation with this corrupt war on American citizens is the
surest way our Constitution and Bill of Rights can be restored.

2. NONVIOLENCE – We don’t want to kill our enemies, only expose their
lies and their greed for power over others. Any form of anger on your
part must be left at the door, or it will make you no better than your
adversaries and bring failure to your efforts. Only when others sense
your commitment to the high road, will the justice you seek become
possible. Those who attended my trial saw that I always wore a suit
and showed respect. I even held doors open for my prosecutors, so they
could push in their huge cart filled with 4,000 pages of lies against
me. My polite behavior only made their accusations look more wild and
ridiculous.

3. USE THE MEDIA – Most courts will not allow you to tell your story
and you must depend upon the media to get the truth out. Focus on
winning in the court of public opinion and your victory with the jury
will be assured.

4. NEVER PLEA BARGAIN – This is a slippery slope. It might look like
a great idea to begin with, but in the end, you lose, everyday for the
rest of your life. You won’t get what you were promised and you’ll
only endanger others by cooperating with government terrorists.

5. GO ALL OUT ON THE PRELIMINARY HEARING – Winning your Preliminary
Hearing means the judge will dismiss the case and your troubles are
over. Most defense attorneys will advise you to do little in your
Preliminary Hearing, so they can see what the prosecution’s case is
about and then prepare a defense. That is definitely the wrong tactic
in a bona fide medical marijuana case. You want an attorney who will
fight with everything you have to win your case in the Prelim,
regardless of the costs or time involved. Top medical marijuana
attorney J. David Nick once took a Prelim on for 18 months, until the
prosecutor gave up in desperation.

6. INSIST ON A JURY TRIAL – Less than 3% of defendants exercise their
right to a jury trial and yet the court system is in near gridlock.
Refusing to cooperate and demanding a trial places a significant load
on the criminal justice system and is the surest way to end this phony
drug war. Nearly all medical marijuana trials end in acquittals or
hung juries, so take your case directly to your fellow citizens and
trust them to see through the prosecutor’s lies.

7. TARGET POLICY MAKERS – ignore the police and prosecutors and
target their superiors. It is Sheriffs and D.A.s who are the generals
in the Drug War and they are the ones who are responsible for your
current grief. Organize a recall election against your D.A. Your
recall will probably fail miserably, but your D.A. will back off
prosecuting other medical cannabis patients, once you put a little heat
to their feet.

8. SEEK CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES – Use the courts and your local
grand jury to obtain indictments and convictions against rogue
officials, since this is the ONLY thing sheriffs, police chiefs and
district attorneys understand or respect. Never forget what was done
to you until EVERY rogue sheriff, district attorney, police chief, and
judge has been brought to justice. We owe it to all who have died and
suffered horribly in this war to dedicate the rest of our lives to
bringing these drug war criminals to justice.

9. REFUSE PROBATION – Probation is no different than plea bargaining,
because you are trading away your rights for a deal that will never
work in your favor. You are better off to take jail over probation,
because probation nearly always leads to further violations and trouble
with the law.

10. DOCUMENT ABUSES – It’s your job to document and prove abuse.
Sooner or later, a reform-minded administration will be elected and
they will want to investigate your charges and seek justice.

You are now a professional defendant. Your life will be your trial.
Do what you can to survive and remain true to the belief that YOU ARE
INNOCENT. A law was passed five years ago that gives you the RIGHT to
use, grow and possess this medicine. Don’t be afraid to stand up for
what you believe.

Good luck and remember to focus on the positive.

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 6, 2004 at 11:57:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dh,

I met quite afew junkies in San Francisco with the flesh eating disease.  That is some scary shit!

Sean

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] The Necessary Organ(s):
Date: September 6, 2004 at 11:21:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://lansbury.bwh.harvard.edu/Useful_links.html
http://www.fastercures.org/sec/resources
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Emery’s letters
Date: September 6, 2004 at 11:16:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

F.Y.I.

Their is plenty Marc wants people to write to, not just him.   www.pot-tv.ca is covered with people to write.  For example:

Write Irwin Cotler, tell him to Free Marc Emery and Renovate Canadian Cannabis Laws.

Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
284 Wellington Street
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0H8
Cotler.I@parl.gc.ca
Denise Rudnicki
Director of communications
Denise.Rudnicki@justice.gc.ca

Mylene Dupere Press Secretary
Mylene.Dupere@justice.gc.ca

main phone: 613 992 4621

The Criminal Code gives the Minister of Justice the power to review a conviction to determine whether there may have been a miscarriage of justice. This power has been part of Canada’s justice system since the original Criminal Code of 1892. Today, the Minister’s power to review convictions is set out in sections 696.1-696.6 in Part XXI.1 of the Criminal Code.

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] THE C(R)ASH.
Date: September 6, 2004 at 11:09:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Its not an easy road but were not alone in this and I have to believe that once the seed is planted it will continue to guide you if you let it.
God bless. -M.
Mark,
Thank you for writing mahn.   It helps more then it may appear.
Be Well,
J

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all. Figured I shouldn’t let the week end without updating anyone who is interested in my progress or lack of or whatever. Actually, me personally, I’m doing great. I’m able to do little things I never could do before without giving in to the lie. I have been in Harlem on a daily basis visiting a friend and recent initiate and its been very healing to be in the old haunts for the right reasons. I believe, for me everything that comes up, uncomfortable as it might be at times, is an opportunity on some level to either make peace with a certain situation, or place, or feeling, or whatever, and then move on. I mean, the thought is always there but having a choice and making the best decision at the time makes me feel stronger and stronger or further and further out the other end. This is not me testing myself but more reinforcing that my life can have a lot more purpose than it ever has in the past. I know longer need for my identity to be lost in chasing junk and all that goes with it. Life has so much more to offer if we just let the process work.
Nothing however has gotten to me more than seeing some of these wonderful people who I’ve met recently go back out. Intellectually I understand it completely but my heart still hurts when I see that pain first hand. I guess from a selfish prospective maybe it reminds me how close I always am to giving it all back but I think even more it has to do with the idea that well it just breaks my heart to see people come so far and to lose it. Ugh! I’m still completely unable to make peace with that one yet.
Its not an easy road but were not alone in this and I have to believe that once the seed is planted it will continue to guide you if you let it.
God bless. -M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
In my original post I clearly stated “wether these are actual holes, or
areas of inactivity, I’m not sure.”

there was a thread on this subject about a year ago and I questioned
one of the top Neuro-psychologists at NYU who did extensive studies
with brain scans on addicts (mainly crack) and they said, “well they
look like holes on the scans but what they really are are areas of
inactivity”

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 10:36 AM, jon grocott wrote:

> I’m not going to copy/paste a couple of pages blindly from a website
> to help credit my point but ‘I believe’ Preston was argueing that
> holes in the brain are something left to the duty of hammers and
> bullets, not drugs – physiological studies don’t back up ‘holes in the
> head through blood barrier exploitatian of drugs’-Jeres Grokarm
> dhf.1999  –  I think you can draw your’ own conclusions from this . > JG.
>
>
> >From: D H
>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
>
> >Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:20:30 -1000
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from
>
> >>his drug
>
> >>abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
>
> >>reliable.
>
> >
>
> >whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies
>
> >home.
>
> >
>
> >aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my
>
> >part.
>
> >
>
> >and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he
>
> >took the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.
>
> >
>
> >Now why would he make that up?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >/
> ]=———————————————————————
> =[\
>
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
> >
>
> >\]=——————————————————————-
> –=[/
>
> >
>
> >
>

>

>
> MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced
> communication tools and great software like MSN EncartaĈ Premium.
> Click here for a FREE trial!

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??LSD?
Date: September 6, 2004 at 5:12:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvoxians, what about LSD? I know a guy, and I think everyone else knows someone like this, who after tripping on some real strong LSD, never came back. He’s been very schizzo ever since. I knew this guy well in jr. high and high school. He was a little weird but basically a pretty cool guy. That LSD was some gold colored window pane and it was as strong as anything I ever did. Seemed like pure LSD to me. How could LSD cause this guy to lose it? I mean this dude has never held a job. Word is he bought 30 hits and basically ate them all in about a week. It was definitely 4 way. I personally cut one in 4 pieces and watched 3 people and myself get a mild buzz. Strong yea, but I always thought LSD was pretty tame as far as real damage was concerned. This dude still thinks the devil is gonna fuck him at any time. That was in 75. Just a random brain spasm from me. Randy

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 11:47:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not saying they were holes!

I’m simply relaying what was told me, the dudes doctor probably put it in those terms for all I know.

I also told him at the time that they were more likely areas of inactivity and that according to research done at NYU those areas of the brain in crack addicts regained activity after 18 months, about the same time as recovery from Brain Surgery. To try to give the guy some hope, you know?

But i do specifically remember the mdma/holes theory story breaking when the scientists admitted the scan results came from amphetamine administered to primates:

Exaggerating MDMA’s Risks to Justify A Prohibitionist Policy
by Rick Doblin, Ph.D.
January 16, 2004
<snip>
“Ricaurte/McCann now acknowledge that their evidence about MDMA damaging dopamine neurons was erroneous (Ricaurte et al. 2003) and was based on the mistaken administration to their primates of methamphetamine instead of MDMA, supposedly due to mislabeled 10 gram bottles of MDMA and methamphetamine which arrived from the same provider in the same package.”
</snip>

(source: http://www.maps.org/mdma/rd011604.html)

like Ali G sez… respect.

and all that other good shit.

_.dh

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 04:49 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

I don’t doubt at all that he’s messed up Dave,
And I don’t know why he’d “lie” about holes, but I do think he could be
mistaken a wee bit, perhaps taking the “loss of brain activity” issue and
extropilating a bit? Perhaps?
I’m just having a lot of trouble picturing actual holes in the brain
from any drugs abused today. Battery acid, yeah, I can see that, but other
stuff? Don’t think so- but I could be mistaken. I’m not taking a “it’s one
hundred percent false” position, but after seeing the other “holes in
brains” stories promoted by one or another, and knowing how false they
turned out to be, I’m going to have trouble with this one too- even if shown
supposed brain scans showing “holes” as the ONDCP also created nifty brain
scans that seemed to show holes from MDMA, and it turned out false.
As previously noted.
So, to reiterate- as bad as methamphetamines can be for some folk, I’m
still not buying the “holes in brains” stories related to methamphetamine
use or abuse. Yet.
Peace, love and respect,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from his
drug
abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
reliable.

whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies home.

aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my
part.

and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he took
the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.

Now why would he make that up?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 10:49:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t doubt at all that he’s messed up Dave,
And I don’t know why he’d “lie” about holes, but I do think he could be
mistaken a wee bit, perhaps taking the “loss of brain activity” issue and
extropilating a bit? Perhaps?
I’m just having a lot of trouble picturing actual holes in the brain
from any drugs abused today. Battery acid, yeah, I can see that, but other
stuff? Don’t think so- but I could be mistaken. I’m not taking a “it’s one
hundred percent false” position, but after seeing the other “holes in
brains” stories promoted by one or another, and knowing how false they
turned out to be, I’m going to have trouble with this one too- even if shown
supposed brain scans showing “holes” as the ONDCP also created nifty brain
scans that seemed to show holes from MDMA, and it turned out false.
As previously noted.
So, to reiterate- as bad as methamphetamines can be for some folk, I’m
still not buying the “holes in brains” stories related to methamphetamine
use or abuse. Yet.
Peace, love and respect,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from his
drug
abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
reliable.

whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies home.

aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my
part.

and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he took
the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.

Now why would he make that up?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 6:46:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

I have no argument that Ice/methamphetamine CAN cause serious damage when
abused. I don’t believe it causes holes in any brains whatsoever. Maybe
areas of inactivity, but holes? Nope, not buying it.

This individual is highly paranoid and schizophrenic, unemployable,
missing 80% of his teeth and completely strung out and destitute.<

And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from his drug
abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
reliable.
;-0)))

Well, while there’s no evidence that drugs cause holes in the brain, in a
sense, schizophrenia does.

In the center of a normal healthy brain, there are two small “holes” if
you will, called ventricles, that are filled with fluid. Because of
systematic brain cell death caused by schizophrenia called “kindling”,
these ventricles grow abnormally large as a schizophrenic’s disease
progesses.

It’s plausible that extensive abuse of methamphetamine or other neurotoxic
chemicals could speed this process up.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine
Date: September 5, 2004 at 6:45:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am I right in thinking that you shouldn’t take St John’s Wort if you’re using the comtraceptive pill?  I use Microgynon and would like to try a more natural AD.

Thanks,
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine

it takes time for the St. johns to kick in, few weeks. It has no bad effects as Paxil.
You must know how long it takes for the Paxil withdrawals to show up after stopping taking it? St. Johns will not stop those withdrawals.Iboga will.
Mostly people who take anti-deppressants need booster doses. After the ibo. Treatment it would be good to start with St. john.

sara
Van: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 september 2004 9:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine

Hey all, could someone tell me if St. Johns Wart has the same bad effects as Paxil for someone getting ready to take an Ibogaine treatment? I’d really appreciate some info on this.  Randy

From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Head like a hole
Date: September 5, 2004 at 6:04:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.thesite.org/youthnet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=214&a=592
>From:
Holes in the brain?
One thing’s for sure, the NIDA pictures were not ordinary brain scans, they were only scanning for serotonin. There were gaps in some of the pictures, but this is not the same as having physical holes in the brain tissue, it just means they couldn’t find much serotonin. 
More about brain scans and ‘holes’ here
Bigger, stricter studies need to be carried out before anyone can say they’ve proved that E does or doesn’t damage the human brain. More here
If ecstasy is eventually shown to cause permanent brain damage, does that mean it causes long-term changes in mood and behaviour? Find out here in our separate article.

D H <dave@phantom.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

>Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:05:35 -1000

>

>In my original post I clearly stated “wether these are actual holes,

>or  areas of inactivity, I’m not sure.”

>

>there was a thread on this subject about a year ago and I questioned

>  one of the top Neuro-psychologists at NYU who did extensive

>studies  with brain scans on addicts (mainly crack) and they said,

>”well they  look like holes on the scans but what they really are

>are areas of  inactivity”.

>

>On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 10:36 AM, jon grocott wrote:

>

>>I’m not going to copy/paste a couple of pages blindly from a

>>website  to help credit my point but ‘I believe’ Preston was

>>argueing that  holes in the brain are something left to the duty of

>>hammers and  bullets, not drugs – physiological studies don’t back

>>up ‘holes in the  head through blood barrier exploitatian of

>>drugs’-Jeres Grokarm  dhf.1999  –  I think you can draw your’ own

>>conclusions from this . > JG.

>>

>>

>> >From: D H <dave@phantom.com>

>>

>> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>

>> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>

>> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

>>

>> >Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:20:30 -1000

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

>>

>> >

>>

>> >>And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from

>>

>> >>his drug

>>

>> >>abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s

>>very

>>

>> >>reliable.

>>

>> >

>>

>> >whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies

>>

>> >home.

>>

>> >

>>

>> >aside from that, he offered the information without reference on

>>my

>>

>> >part.

>>

>> >

>>

>> >and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he

>>

>> >took the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.

>>

>> >

>>

>> >Now why would he make that up?

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >/

>>]=———————————————————————

>>=[\

>>

>> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:

>>

>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>>

>> >

>>

>> >\]=——————————————————————-

>>–=[/

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>

>>

><image.tiff>

>>

>>MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced

>>communication tools and great software like MSN EncartaĈ Premium.

>>Click here for a FREE trial!

Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the FREE MSN Toolbar now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] THE CRASH.
Date: September 5, 2004 at 5:32:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all. Figured I shouldn’t let the week end without updating anyone who is interested in my progress or lack of or whatever. Actually, me personally, I’m doing great. I’m able to do little things I never could do before without giving in to the lie. I have been in Harlem on a daily basis visiting a friend and recent initiate and its been very healing to be in the old haunts for the right reasons. I believe, for me everything that comes up, uncomfortable as it might be at times, is an opportunity on some level to either make peace with a certain situation, or place, or feeling, or whatever, and then move on. I mean, the thought is always there but having a choice and making the best decision at the time makes me feel stronger and stronger or further and further out the other end. This is not me testing myself but more reinforcing that my life can have a lot more purpose than it ever has in the past. I know longer need for my identity to be lost in chasing junk and all that goes with it. Life has so much more to offer if we just let the process work.
Nothing however has gotten to me more than seeing some of these wonderful people who I’ve met recently go back out. Intellectually I understand it completely but my heart still hurts when I see that pain first hand. I guess from a selfish prospective maybe it reminds me how close I always am to giving it all back but I think even more it has to do with the idea that well it just breaks my heart to see people come so far and to lose it. Ugh! I’m still completely unable to make peace with that one yet.
Its not an easy road but were not alone in this and I have to believe that once the seed is planted it will continue to guide you if you let it.
God bless. -M.

D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
In my original post I clearly stated “wether these are actual holes, or
areas of inactivity, I’m not sure.”

there was a thread on this subject about a year ago and I questioned
one of the top Neuro-psychologists at NYU who did extensive studies
with brain scans on addicts (mainly crack) and they said, “well they
look like holes on the scans but what they really are are areas of
inactivity”

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 10:36 AM, jon grocott wrote:

> I’m not going to copy/paste a couple of pages blindly from a website
> to help credit my point but ‘I believe’ Preston was argueing that
> holes in the brain are something left to the duty of hammers and
> bullets, not drugs – physiological studies don’t back up ‘holes in the
> head through blood barrier exploitatian of drugs’-Jeres Grokarm
> dhf.1999  –  I think you can draw your’ own conclusions from this . > JG.
>
>
> >From: D H
>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
>
> >Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:20:30 -1000
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from
>
> >>his drug
>
> >>abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
>
> >>reliable.
>
> >
>
> >whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies
>
> >home.
>
> >
>
> >aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my
>
> >part.
>
> >
>
> >and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he
>
> >took the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.
>
> >
>
> >Now why would he make that up?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >/
> ]=———————————————————————
> =[\
>
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
> >
>
> >\]=——————————————————————-
> –=[/
>
> >
>
> >
>

>

>
> MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced
> communication tools and great software like MSN EncartaĈ Premium.
> Click here for a FREE trial!

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 5:05:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my original post I clearly stated “wether these are actual holes, or areas of inactivity, I’m not sure.”

there was a thread on this subject about a year ago and I questioned one of the top Neuro-psychologists at NYU who did extensive studies with brain scans on addicts (mainly crack) and they said, “well they look like holes on the scans but what they really are are areas of inactivity”.

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 10:36 AM, jon grocott wrote:

I’m not going to copy/paste a couple of pages blindly from a website to help credit my point but ‘I believe’ Preston was argueing that holes in the brain are something left to the duty of hammers and bullets, not drugs – physiological studies don’t back up ‘holes in the head through blood barrier exploitatian of drugs’-Jeres Grokarm dhf.1999  –  I think you can draw your’ own conclusions from this . JG.

>From: D H <dave@phantom.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

>Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:20:30 -1000

>

>

>On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

>

>>And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from

>>his drug

>>abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very

>>reliable.

>

>whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies

>home.

>

>aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my

>part.

>

>and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he

>took the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.

>

>Now why would he make that up?

>

>

>

>

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:

>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

<image.tiff>

MSN Premium gives you PC protection, junk-mail filters, advanced communication tools and great software like MSN EncartaÆ Premium. Click here for a FREE trial!

From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 4:36:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not going to copy/paste a couple of pages blindly from a website to help credit my point but ‘I believe’ Preston was argueing that holes in the brain are something left to the duty of hammers and bullets, not drugs – physiological studies don’t back up ‘holes in the head through blood barrier exploitatian of drugs’-Jeres Grokarm dhf.1999  –  I think you can draw your’ own conclusions from this . JG.

>From: D H <dave@phantom.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

>Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 08:20:30 -1000

>

>

>On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

>

>>And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from

>>his drug

>>abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very

>>reliable.

>

>whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies

>home.

>

>aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my

>part.

>

>and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he

>took the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.

>

>Now why would he make that up?

>

>

>

>

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:

>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 2:20:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from his drug
abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
reliable.

whatever. stare into his eyes and the lights are on, but nobodies home.

aside from that, he offered the information without reference on my part.

and I know the person he was working with who called 911 when he took the fall, and who called us when he was in the hospital.

Now why would he make that up?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 5, 2004 at 1:59:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have no argument that Ice/methamphetamine CAN cause serious damage when
abused. I don’t believe it causes holes in any brains whatsoever. Maybe
areas of inactivity, but holes? Nope, not buying it.

This individual is highly paranoid and schizophrenic, unemployable,
missing 80% of his teeth and completely strung out and destitute.<

And this individual is claiming he’s got holes in his brain from his drug
abuse? I don’t believe him. No offense, but I don’t think he’s very
reliable.
;-0)))

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 08:49 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Rick Doblin of MAPS is publishing
an article in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs,
all
about the propaganda used by the feds to actively suppress mdma
contrary to
all the scientific evidence showing just how full of malarky the feds
are
and always have been. There are no holes in brains prodced by MDMA
anyway-
that all said, perhap methamphetamines are different?

As I recall the article, it stated that the researchers mistakenly were
basing their mdma findings on brain scan data from methamphetamine
users.

I know an “ice” user, who personally told me he had PET scans done of
his brain ‘and there are definitely “holes”‘. wether these are actual
holes, or areas of inactivity, I’m not sure. Originally the scans were
done because he took a major fall off a high ladder (tweaking, no
doubt) and was unconscious in the hospital for 3 days. The doctor was
amazed he could talk or walk for that matter when he regained
consciousness, based on what he saw in the brain scans.

This individual is highly paranoid and schizophrenic, unemployable,
missing 80% of his teeth and completely strung out and destitute. 2
years ago he was healthy, attending meetings, running a house framing
crew and driving a $28,000 truck. An Ex-heroin addict turned IceHead. I
couldn’t imagine a worse fate.

He continues to use because he can’t stop, and his attitude is like,
“well, my brain is already destroyed so i might as well go for broke”.

methamphetamine is a terrible drug, far more toxicly devastating than
Heroin. Very few ice heads ever get clean because of the devastating
effects on the brain.

The crank problem in Hawaii has reached epidemic proportions, most of
it being smuggled in from Asia, mainly the Phillipines. A smaller
percentage is manufactured locally.

The west and midwest are also experiencing major epidemics.

Manufacturing and dealing a drug like that has some serious karmic
repercussions for sure.

On another note Afghanistan has produced more heroin in the last 2+
years than the previous 4. I’d say there’s more drugs on the street
than ever these days. But hey, it keeps the masses occupied and the
money flowing. who can argue with that?

Its all part of the master plan!

_.dh

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From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what is Marc Emery’s address in jail?- thanx Brad
Date: September 5, 2004 at 1:39:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,
After learning, reading about Marc Emory, I was so fascinated and impressed
with him and his accomplishments I was compelled to write to him also. Many
of the actions I have thought, wanted, dreamed of he has done. People like
himself and Mr. Borden and Mr. Smith with DRCNet are the ones who will
effect the changes we all want. If more of us “stepped-up” perhaps we would
have made more progress by now!!!
bf

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what is Marc Emery’s address in jail?- thanx Brad
Date: September 5, 2004 at 1:24:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Brad,

Thanks a lot for the immediate response!!  Cool…I’m
off to the mailbox…

love Julie  🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] what is Marc Emery’s address in jail?
Date: September 5, 2004 at 1:21:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ms Iboga
The address given a few days ago: c/o Dept. of Corrections 910 60th St. SE
East Saskatoon saskatchewan S7K2HG
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:10 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] what is Marc Emery’s address in jail?

Hey list,

Just finished writing a supportive letter for Marc
Emery; problem is, I can’t find his jail
address…Would anyone happen to know what it is?

Thanks a lot,

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what is Marc Emery’s address in jail?
Date: September 5, 2004 at 1:10:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list,

Just finished writing a supportive letter for Marc
Emery; problem is, I can’t find his jail
address…Would anyone happen to know what it is?

Thanks a lot,

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] sodden Bush twins
Date: September 5, 2004 at 12:58:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.buzzflash.com/buzzscripts/buzz.dll/sub2″
The  Well-Oiled Bush Twins: Cheap and Boozed Up, Just Like Dad’s Salad Days
When
Other Young People Were Dying in Wars(Sept. 5, 2004)
Level Vodka is doing promotional efforts in NYC, so did the Bush twins pay
boocoo
bucks for Vodka the bar was given free? That would be typical.

According to V- who is a bartender at one of NYC “hottest” nightclubs, so
she’s pretty knowlegable about the scene here- she tells me that Level Vodka
has been engaged in promotional giveaways to the NYC nightclubs- and if this
is so, the Bush twins were buying alcohol the bar originally obtained for
free. Unfortunately, I do not know that they were drinking Level Vodka at
the old Limelight (now Avalon as noted in this brief article), or if the bar
actually was serving them alcohol they’d been given, but it wouldn’t
surprise me at all.
Buzzflash says this article has “disappeared” from the “7 day archives”
at the NYPost’s page 6 archives, even though it came out yesterday, Sept. 4,
2004.
But in defense of the twins, to say they only tipped “one percent” by
leaving a $48 tip is missing the main point, that they already almost
certainly paid a much larger gratuity to the bar, usually 20 percent, which
is one hundred percent normal for the bar to tack on in NYC if the table is
running a tab on bottle after bottle of alcohol. So by leaving an extra $48,
they did good.
Veddy Innerestin’.
Peace and love,
Preston

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] questions
Date: September 5, 2004 at 11:41:16 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Otter,

My brother was a long-term heroin user and a few years ago I became determined to “save him” with ibogaine. He took it several times but never really stayed clean. At some point I had to simply chuck him out of the flat we were sharing as I realized that by allowing myself to believe I was helping him I had just become sucked into his world and was just maintaining him in his fucked-up lifestyle. He freaked out a lot at the time but it was the only way I could disentangle myself from him and so see my own life and its needs and wants better. He didn’t talk to me for a while but we’re closer now. He claims to be off but i have my doubts.

I was also taking ibogaine myself at the time. Basically, the desire to quit drugs has to come directly from the user or not so much is going to happen, whatever the detox or regime. And if you’re supporting a druggie, at some point you are going to have to look at why you are really doing this, and whose needs are really being served. Best thing invariably is to disconnect, in my opinion.

You can get hold of ibogaine in Canada. There are sources listed on my site at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

Love

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Otter60@aol.com [mailto:Otter60@aol.com]
Sent: 05 September 2004 07:55
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] questions

I am the mother of a daughter who was treated with ibugaine. It helped her some, but after a year she keeps relapsing every few months, because she hasn’t implemented a follow=up program.  I am having a very hard time dealing with my reaction to her 9+ years of addiction, and am thinking of taking ibugaine myself to try to help myself let go and also to help me to make some decisions, about things like leaving the country, etc. I feel like I have to do something radically different in order to keep on living my life. I did a lot of acid in the 60’s and 70’s, but stopped since I wasn’t getting off any more aned eventually stopped grass too (years ago) because it made me too paranoid. My question is, could I just do some ibogaine with a friend ( I have friends with psychedelic experience who still smoke) to monitor me, if I can get ahold of some ibogaine in Canada?  I am open to suggestions.
Peace,
Otter

From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 5, 2004 at 7:39:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

‘ Read that book He wrote, the Bible. It’s a story of temptation and failure, struggle and courage, and it’s about the power of Jesus over death and despair. ‘
That website makes some (albeit melodramatic) sense about stimulants, but you can’t just throw every drug into the same box –  and as we get towards the end, lo and behold (see above) – I nearly puked. It destroys anything worthwhile they had to say. What frightens me is those mothers. Sjonny.
>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston

>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:59:46 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Hey Preston et al,

>

>I went to the website that you listed- mothers against

>methamphetamines…They have several brain scans of

>normal individuals, starkly contrasted with

>individuals who take crystal meth(ice, glass, etc..).

>Their dopamine levels are SCREWED!!  After one year of

>no drug use, levels seemed to return to ‘normal’,

>though never pre-drug ‘normal’.

>

>I personally love MDMA- what an awesome drug!!

>Non-addictive, euphoric, the whole shabang!!

>Crystal/ice are a different story altogether- I had

>the misfortune of rooming with a guy who was addicted

>to crank- he eventually had a severe

>paranoid/psychotic episode, in which he thought the

>”TV people were after him- they have cameras

>everywhere!!”, and ended up in an asylum for 8 months.

>  The movie “The Salton Sea” has a couple of realistic

>tweeker paranoia scenes, despite being a mediocre film

>overall.

>

>E rules, but crank sucks…

>

>Julie

>

>

>__________________________________________________

>Do You Yahoo!?

>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

>http://mail.yahoo.com

>

>

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From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 5, 2004 at 7:31:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston

>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:59:46 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Hey Preston et al,

>

>I went to the website that you listed- mothers against

>methamphetamines…They have several brain scans of

>normal individuals, starkly contrasted with

>individuals who take crystal meth(ice, glass, etc..).

>Their dopamine levels are SCREWED!!  After one year of

>no drug use, levels seemed to return to ‘normal’,

>though never pre-drug ‘normal’.

>

>I personally love MDMA- what an awesome drug!!

>Non-addictive, euphoric, the whole shabang!!

>Crystal/ice are a different story altogether- I had

>the misfortune of rooming with a guy who was addicted

>to crank- he eventually had a severe

>paranoid/psychotic episode, in which he thought the

>”TV people were after him- they have cameras

>everywhere!!”, and ended up in an asylum for 8 months.

>  The movie “The Salton Sea” has a couple of realistic

>tweeker paranoia scenes, despite being a mediocre film

>overall.

>

>E rules, but crank sucks…

>

>Julie

>

>

>__________________________________________________

>Do You Yahoo!?

>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

>http://mail.yahoo.com

>

>

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>

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] sharing experinece.
Date: September 5, 2004 at 6:23:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, Thanx a bunch for getting back to me. I quit taking Paxel about 4 or 5 weeks ago and didn’t know about the withdrawals. It really wasn’t that bad but I did feel weird for a while. How long before the Paxil is completely gone? And don’t worry about not being a Dr., my mother is a nurse practitioner and she knows a hell of a lot more about general medicine than most Dr.s. People like you and her keep us all healthy. I trust yall a whole lot more than the Dr.s I see. Will I have to stop taking St. Johns Wart before the Ibogaine? Thanx for all your help. I’m getting primed for this. (I’m also getting kind of nervous) I just hope that I can get the results that everyone seems to be getting.      Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] sharing experinece.
Date: September 5, 2004 at 5:53:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi  All,

As you probably know already, I’m not a Medical Doctor but a religious practitioner & care giver. I use Traditional healing methods.
My knowledge is from experience. Not abuse of animals or people.
It is my only income and I’m not going to write patents on any of my findings.  80% of my time is shared voluntarily, Gratis for helping those in need. I like to share with you in the open my info. Just as I have done before. I found that people who take anti depressants
Have harder time being fucked up after the Iboga/ibogaine. You can be tripping for days imagining things for sometimes a week- 10 days long.
It isn’t the same as if you take ibogaine only for interrupting heroin withdrawals  or other short working opiates.

Taking people off methadone and anti–depressant is  Much Much Much harder then if they were only taking Heroin, cannabis , Lsd, mdma,mushrooms
Cocaine or tabbaco.
M. mushroom are very good anti- depressant they work quickly and when you learn how to dose, you don’t need to be tripping on them
To benefit the anti depressant  qualities they have. Ayahausca is also an eye opener to inner wisdom which can help a person with
Depression.
There are ways to get there without the danger of having an awful withdrawals and being fucked up for days.
It is easy that the insurance pays all those drugs people take, at the same time you don’t became happier using ‘m .

Shanah Tovah  and good Holidays.

Sara
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine
Date: September 5, 2004 at 4:01:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it takes time for the St. johns to kick in, few weeks. It has no bad effects as Paxil.
You must know how long it takes for the Paxil withdrawals to show up after stopping taking it? St. Johns will not stop those withdrawals.Iboga will.
Mostly people who take anti-deppressants need booster doses. After the ibo. Treatment it would be good to start with St. john.

sara
Van: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 september 2004 9:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine

Hey all, could someone tell me if St. Johns Wart has the same bad effects as Paxil for someone getting ready to take an Ibogaine treatment? I’d really appreciate some info on this.  Randy

From: Otter60@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] questions
Date: September 5, 2004 at 3:53:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/5/2004 3:34:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

apologize for the confusion but I was trying unsuccessfully to get in touch with someone I’d really like to talk to.
However no such thing as a coincidence in my opinion. Still very glad we spoke and I really hope you do what we talked about and please keep me posted. This bottom line is this is the best chance we have… even if takes a few times to work the way we’d like it to sometimes.
Good luck and please keep me posted. -M.

Otter60@aol.com wrote:

I am the mother of a daughter who was treated with ibugaine. It helped her some, but after a year she keeps relapsing every few months, because she hasn’t implemented a follow=up program.  I am having a very hard time dealing with my reaction to her 9+ years of addiction, and am thinking of taking ibugaine myself to try to help myself let go and also to help me to make some decisions, about things like leaving the country, etc. I feel like I have to do something radically different in order to keep on living my life. I did a lot of acid in the 60’s and 70’s, but stopped since I wasn’t getting off any more aned eventually stopped grass too (years ago) because it made me too paranoid. My question is, could I just do some ibogaine with a friend ( I have friends with psychedelic experience who still smoke) to monitor me, if I can get ahold of some ibogaine in Canada?  I am open to suggestions.
Peace,
Otter

Thanks
Peace, Otter

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Any1experineced extact and HCL combinations?
Date: September 5, 2004 at 3:34:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jason,

There isn’t so much I can tell you, only it is possible,
The Extract makes the HCL feels smoother, last longer, but then it is still different for each person.
There is no study about this, only personal experience, intense trip.

Take care,

Sara

Van: Jason Bursey [mailto:jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 september 2004 1:18
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Any1experineced extact and HCL combinations?

I’m interested in hearing how successful combinations of extract and HCL are for addiction interruption objectives.  Links to studies, personal experience, links etc.??

What ails thee?

increase the level of
other ways and means, which is vital to brain cell communication.

http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22brain+damage%22+heroin+methadone+biochemistry&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=

www.biology-online.org/8/4_brain_damage.htm

http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/

http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/issues/20030613105603/20030613112009/Maas_MTT.pdf
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22make+music%22+ritual&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=

http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22music+therapy%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?vc=&p=biochemistry
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22molecular+pharmacology%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=anesthesiology&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=neurosurgery&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=methadone&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22iboga%22+%22music%22+%22ritual%22+%22software%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22make+music%22+&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=

Aloha and welcome – e komo mai


http://www.maps.org/forum/
SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, PCT 1.0.http://www.a-keys.nl/ayahuasca/  http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/faq/faq.php?list=all&prog=1&lang=en&onlynewfaq=1
risks involved in the ritual use of http://www.hakaman.com/sample.htm
http://braindamager.tripod.com/
,
He stepped out in the Texas sunlight The cops all stood around Old Kilowatt ran 50 yards Then threw himself down on the ground They might as well just have laid The old man down And we’re gonna raze, raze the prisons To the ground Help us raze, raze the prisons To the ground ) 1971, 1972 Chandos Music (ASCAP)

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] questions
Date: September 5, 2004 at 3:33:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I apologize for the confusion but I was trying unsuccessfully to get in touch with someone I’d really like to talk to.
However no such thing as a coincidence in my opinion. Still very glad we spoke and I really hope you do what we talked about and please keep me posted. This bottom line is this is the best chance we have… even if takes a few times to work the way we’d like it to sometimes.
Good luck and please keep me posted. -M.

Otter60@aol.com wrote:
I am the mother of a daughter who was treated with ibugaine. It helped her some, but after a year she keeps relapsing every few months, because she hasn’t implemented a follow=up program.  I am having a very hard time dealing with my reaction to her 9+ years of addiction, and am thinking of taking ibugaine myself to try to help myself let go and also to help me to make some decisions, about things like leaving the country, etc. I feel like I have to do something radically different in order to keep on living my life. I did a lot of acid in the 60’s and 70’s, but stopped since I wasn’t getting off any more aned eventually stopped grass too (years ago) because it made me too paranoid. My question is, could I just do some ibogaine with a friend ( I have friends with psychedelic experience who still smoke) to monitor me, if I can get ahold of some ibogaine in Canada?  I am open to suggestions.
Peace,
Otter

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine
Date: September 5, 2004 at 3:22:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, could someone tell me if St. Johns Wart has the same bad effects as Paxil for someone getting ready to take an Ibogaine treatment? I’d really appreciate some info on this.  Randy

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] preston… call me if your still up….
Date: September 5, 2004 at 3:07:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>A question: Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????<

So far as I know opiates are the very least damaging of substances we can be
putting into our bodies, in terms of actual physical damage resulting as a
direct result of opiate use. But I do want to point out that the whole
“holes in brains” thing that the ONDCP and US Government shoved down our
thoats is and always was total bullshit. Rick Doblin of MAPS is publishing
an article in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, all
about the propaganda used by the feds to actively suppress mdma contrary to
all the scientific evidence showing just how full of malarky the feds are
and always have been. There are no holes in brains prodced by MDMA anyway-
that all said, perhap methamphetamines are different? I don’t think so, even
though they are similar substances.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 12:25 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

> Oh…My…God…
>
> I went to that MAMI website, read their
> propoganda(‘Red Devil Lye Booklet’), and was VERY
> disturbed. God, I’m so glad I didn’t ever get into
> crystal meth- what a f*cked up drug!!
>
> A question: Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
> damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
> receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????
>
> I would love to hear from someone who has looked into
> this. God, this website sent chills down my back..
>
> Cheers,
> Julie
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
>
>
>
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>

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine SEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: September 5, 2004 at 3:06:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE CALL ME WHENEVER YOU GET THIS. I’LL BE UP. 917-405-3768.
JUST CALL.

Otter60@aol.com wrote:
I am the mother of a daughter who was treated with ibugaine. It helped her some, but after a year she keeps relapsing every few months, because she hasn’t implemented a follow=up program.  I am having a very hard time dealing with my reaction to her 9+ years of addiction, and am thinking of taking ibugaine myself to try to help myself let go and also to help me to make some decisions, about things like leaving the country, etc. I feel like I have to do something radically different in order to keep on living my life. I did a lot of acid in the 60’s and 70’s, but stopped since I wasn’t getting off any more aned eventually stopped grass too (years ago) because it made me too paranoid. My question is, could I just do some ibogaine with a friend ( I have friends with psychedelic experience who still smoke) to monitor me, if I can get ahold of some ibogaine in Canada?  I am open to suggestions.
Peace,
Otter

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From: Otter60@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] questions
Date: September 5, 2004 at 2:54:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am the mother of a daughter who was treated with ibugaine. It helped her some, but after a year she keeps relapsing every few months, because she hasn’t implemented a follow=up program.  I am having a very hard time dealing with my reaction to her 9+ years of addiction, and am thinking of taking ibugaine myself to try to help myself let go and also to help me to make some decisions, about things like leaving the country, etc. I feel like I have to do something radically different in order to keep on living my life. I did a lot of acid in the 60’s and 70’s, but stopped since I wasn’t getting off any more aned eventually stopped grass too (years ago) because it made me too paranoid. My question is, could I just do some ibogaine with a friend ( I have friends with psychedelic experience who still smoke) to monitor me, if I can get ahold of some ibogaine in Canada?  I am open to suggestions.
Peace,
Otter

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 4, 2004 at 9:52:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wasn’t going to say anything but you are 100% correct jfreed. You can not a blanket statement about drugs (recreational) about their being “good” or “bad”. They are not either. They are what they are and are essentially benign. It is how they are used
that determines their negativity or lack of.

Remember, for every report you find that says substance “A” is bad, you will find one that contradicts it.

Regards,

Julian

 

 

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 4, 2004 at 9:45:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, your insights as always are heartwarming and tragically sad. I don’t always know how you feel about humans in terms of being optimistic or pessimistic but I guess you know I have little faith in how we behave for there just aren’t enough people like you around. There are a few others here I feel the same way about but it’s still not enough! It’s a shame.

Love on ya’ Sara,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Again…
Date: September 4, 2004 at 9:41:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, you are right based on the current attitude towards drug use and life. The thing is I think the real energy (not all of it but much of it) needs to be spent on a philosophy of “BLTC”-(better living through chemistry). There is actually an organization by this name and in essence the meaning has been distorted quite a bit, (much like Nietzche’s philosophy was by the Nazi movement). It seems that no matter what we say or do, our position will never be respected, tolerated nor certainly ever accepted and adopted. If this is going to be the case, maybe we should spend our time pushing for legalization and synthesizing drugs to be “good chemistry”!

I know this is naive and won’t happen but either will harm reduction and many of the more conservative approaches to drug use. There will always be situations that need to be “handled” because there are potential problems but all of us know or should know that many of the problems we suffer are more due to the difficulty of getting drugs due to being illegal and with that comes poor quality, no research into how to manufacture safe versions of recreational drugs and no education as to how to use them, when, where etc.!!!

I won’t belabor this point because I know how most feel about this but in Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World”, there was a double message there about a society using drugs. The more negative one was obvious, but the more positive one that my education never discussed was the fact that people and society in general were better off using chemicals, indulging theirselves with the pleasure and synthetic happiness they provide but this needs to be a priority of society”s. Let’s face facts: our culture is hypocritical, conservative and self-serving! It will probably remain this way and our idealistic wishes need to be re-examined by ourselves. I know I am pessimistic and cynical but I also know I am realistic and honest re: this issue. I wish to hell I wasn’t!

Hey, Fuck me and have a good day.

Julian .

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Any1experineced extact and HCL combinations?
Date: September 4, 2004 at 7:17:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m interested in hearing how successful combinations of extract and HCL are for addiction interruption objectives.  Links to studies, personal experience, links etc.??

展hat ails thee?

increase the level of
other ways and means, which is vital to brain cell communication.

http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22brain+damage%22+heroin+methadone+biochemistry&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=

www.biology-online.org/8/4_brain_damage.htm

http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/

http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/issues/20030613105603/20030613112009/Maas_MTT.pdf
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22make+music%22+ritual&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=

http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22music+therapy%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?vc=&p=biochemistry
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22molecular+pharmacology%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=anesthesiology&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=neurosurgery&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=methadone&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22iboga%22+%22music%22+%22ritual%22+%22software%22&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=
http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search/ca?p=%22make+music%22+&ei=UTF-8&vm=i&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt&vc=

Aloha and welcome – e komo mai


http://www.maps.org/forum/
SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, PCT 1.0.http://www.a-keys.nl/ayahuasca/  http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/faq/faq.php?list=all&prog=1&lang=en&onlynewfaq=1
risks involved in the ritual use of http://www.hakaman.com/sample.htm
http://braindamager.tripod.com/
,
He stepped out in the Texas sunlight The cops all stood around Old Kilowatt ran 50 yards Then threw himself down on the ground They might as well just have laid The old man down And weʼre gonna raze, raze the prisons To the ground Help us raze, raze the prisons To the ground ゥ 1971, 1972 Chandos Music (ASCAP)
 

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 4, 2004 at 7:07:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Interesting,

I’m glad to hear that the scans have been debunked-
they scared the hell out of me.  This just further
demonstrates the effectiveness of well-placed, subtle
propaganda.

I have tried crystal only once, and hated the effects.
Don’t really dig c*ke either.  I have used E on a
number of occasions, and honestly, I have only
positive things to say about it, for the most part.  E
makes people empathic, lovey, and compassionate;
crystal tends to make some(but not all) people quite
paranoid, unfriendly, and aggressive.

I remember William Burroughs once commenting on how
well-preserved most opiate users appeared to be.  I
would be inclined to agree.  This would not apply to
the polydrug(especially cigarettes and alcohol) users,
however.

Cheers,

Julie  🙂

_______________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 4, 2004 at 6:29:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I went to the website that you listed- mothers against
methamphetamines…They have several brain scans of
normal individuals, starkly contrasted with
individuals who take crystal meth(ice, glass, etc..).
Their dopamine levels are SCREWED!!  After one year of
no drug use, levels seemed to return to ‘normal’,
though never pre-drug ‘normal’.<

Doblin addresses the “brain scan imagery showing damage from mdma” malarky
in Under the Influence, this photo-shopped (basically) brain scan imagery
being used by ONDCP/prohibitionist types to promote the whole “holes in
brains” thing- it ain’t real, it’s trickery. Yes, perhaps it is true that
dopamine levels are screwed, but so far as I know, the people portrayed in
those images do NOT have a single hole in their brains.
That’s propaganda and a lie, at least in the case of MDMA users, just to let
you know without blaming you of course, produced by prohibitionist
bullshitters to scare the bejesus out of us drug users and abusers, and
those who love us. I agree that so far as I can tell, overabuse of
methamphetamines can really screw a person and their mind, but am unwilling
to buy into the prohbitionists’ “brain scan” proof, knowing what I do about
prohibitionists and the brain scans they used in other anti-drug campaigns.

[TITLE] Exaggerating MDMA’s Risks to Justify A Prohibitionist Policy

[BYLINE] by Rick Doblin, Ph.D.

Reevaluation of the Risks of MDMA after the Ricaurte/McCann Retraction

snip-

[SUBHEAD] MDMA and Serotonin

McCann et al.’s evidence from their PET studies in Ecstasy users on which
they based their claims that MDMA causes massive reductions in serotonin,
published in the Lancet (McCann et al. 1998), are now generally considered
to be based on methodologically flawed data.  Basically, the values for the
serotonin transporter levels in McCann’s control group are so spread out,
with some control subjects having 35 times more serotonin transporters than
others, as to be biologically implausible. To deal with this variation,
McCann et al. log transformed their data, something no other PET researchers
have needed to do (Kish 2002). Subsequent studies by other researchers using
the same PET technique generated control values similar to McCann’s Ecstasy
users. A much larger and better controlled study, published in the Journal
of Nuclear Medicine (Buchert et al. 2003), with 117 subjects as compared to
McCann’s 29, found that former users of Ecstasy, who had consumed an average
of 799 doses and had abstained for about eighteen months, had serotonin
levels identical to that of the control subjects. Buchert et al. found that
current users of Ecstasy, with an average exposure of 827 doses, showed no
reductions in some brain regions and only minimal reductions (4-6%) in two
other brain regions, unlikely to be of even temporary clinical significance.

[PULL QUOTE- Current users of Ecstasy, with an average exposure of 827
doses, showed no reductions in some brain regions and only minimal
reductions (4-6%) in two other brain regions, unlikely to be of even
temporary clinical significance.]

The data from McCann et al.’s Lancet paper formed the basis of NIDA’s major
anti-Ecstasy educational campaign, the Plain Brain/Brain After Ecstasy
image. NIDA had this image printed on hundreds of thousands of cards
distributed in bars and restaurants across the United States, used the image
in NIDA publications and websites, and encouraged its use in media reports,
all part of its now abandoned $42 million “club drugs” campaign. This image
wasn’t even an accurate representation of the data in the Lancet article if
that data had actually been valid. NIDA used images chosen for dramatic
effect comparing subjects from the extremes of the MDMA and control groups
rather than from the subjects scoring closest to the median, using some
normal individual variability to exaggerate the evidence of MDMA
neurotoxicity. NIDA has now withdrawn this educational campaign and even
told the Peter Jennings’ Ecstasy documentary team that it couldn’t locate a
copy of the image!

From another perspective, NIDA’s anti-Ecstasy educational campaign, and Dr.
Leshner’s other efforts to pander to the Bush and Clinton administration’s
jihad against recreational drug use, have been wildly successful. A simple
chart showing the annual increases provided by Congress to NIDA’s budget
during the tenure of Dr. Leshner reveals the short-term dividends of
exaggerating the risks of MDMA and other illicit drugs in support of
prohibitionist policies.

(image)
[credit for charts: The National Institute on Drug Abuse ]

[SUBHEAD] MDMA and Cerebral Blood Flow

Testimony that then-NIDA Director Alan Leshner gave on July 30, 2001 to the
Senate Subcommittee on Government Affairs, illustrated with a large poster
purporting to show that MDMA negatively affects (reduces) cerebral blood
flow, was clearly misleading. The poster showed a healthy-looking brain with
what was represented as normal cerebral blood flow, with this image labeled
“Baseline.” For comparison purposes, the poster also contained a second
brain scan image of the same subject with reduced cerebral blood flow. This
image was labeled “Two weeks post-MDMA.” What Leshner didn’t tell the
Senators is that the scans were drawn from a study that showed no difference
between Ecstasy users and controls in cerebral blood flow (Chang et al.
2000).

[PULL QUOTE- What Leshner didn’t tell the Senators is that the scans were
drawn from a study that showed no difference between Ecstasy users and
controls in cerebral blood flow.]

The images Leshner used in his Senate testimony came from one subset of the
Ecstasy users in the larger study who participated in Dr. Grob’s Phase I
MDMA safety study. These ten subjects were scanned at baseline, like the
other eleven Ecstasy-using subjects in Dr. Chang’s research. They were then
scanned again after receiving two doses of MDMA administered in the context
of Dr. Grob’s study, at time points ranging from two weeks to 2-3 months
after the last dose of MDMA. Subjects scanned two weeks after MDMA showed a
temporary reduction in cerebral blood flow while subjects scanned from 2-3
months after MDMA showed a return to baseline. The impression Leshner left
the Senators was that MDMA caused permanent changes in cerebral blood flow
when the changes were both temporary and of no clinical consequence.
Transcripts of Leshner’s testimony, as well as the images he used to
illustrate his testimony, can be found on NIDA’s website.

Ironically, Leshner didn’t realize that in order to participate in the Phase
1 study and receive MDMA, FDA required subjects to have already had
substantial exposure to MDMA. On average, the subjects in Dr. Chang’s study
had an exposure to MDMA of 211 times. Thus, the healthy-looking brain that
Leshner showed to the Senators to contrast with the image of the same brain
two weeks post-MDMA was actually the brain of a heavy MDMA user at baseline!
If he had fully understood the science underlying the images he showed to
the Senator, Leshner should have reported that the baseline image
dramatically illustrated that MDMA caused no persisting long-term
differences in cerebral blood flow as compared to the non-MDMA using
controls. Instead, he used the image to convey an impression of the dangers
of MDMA at odds with what the study actually demonstrated.

[PULL QUOTE- We should be appalled, but not surprised, at the fact that the
young woman whose brain scan image was manipulated has been working for
several years at the Partnership for a Drug-Free America, miseducating other
young people about the dangers of MDMA (her choice of employment, perhaps,
reflecting the only genuine signs of brain damage).]

Frightening and disturbing images of the brain of an MDMA user that showed
explicit holes in the brain that were claimed to have been caused by MDMA
have been shown on an MTV special documentary about Ecstasy, as well as on
an Oprah Winfrey show. These images were graphically manipulated to
represent areas of lower cerebral blood flow as holes and are completely
fraudulent. According to a March 2001 educational program about drugs aimed
at young people that NIDA helped create, Alan Leshner stated, “We’ve heard
people talk about Ecstasy causing holes in the brain and of course that’s a
bit of an exaggeration, but there is a core truth to it.” (PBS, In the Mix)
We should be appalled, but not surprised, at the fact that the young woman
whose brain scan image was manipulated has been working for several years at
the Partnership for a Drug-Free America, miseducating other young people
about the dangers of MDMA (her choice of employment, perhaps, reflecting the
only genuine signs of brain damage).
snip-

Read Complete Article this October in Under the Influence- the
Disinformation Guide to Drugs.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston

Hey Preston et al,

I went to the website that you listed- mothers against
methamphetamines…They have several brain scans of
normal individuals, starkly contrasted with
individuals who take crystal meth(ice, glass, etc..).
Their dopamine levels are SCREWED!!  After one year of
no drug use, levels seemed to return to ‘normal’,
though never pre-drug ‘normal’.

I personally love MDMA- what an awesome drug!!
Non-addictive, euphoric, the whole shabang!!
Crystal/ice are a different story altogether- I had
the misfortune of rooming with a guy who was addicted
to crank- he eventually had a severe
paranoid/psychotic episode, in which he thought the
“TV people were after him- they have cameras
everywhere!!”, and ended up in an asylum for 8 months.
The movie “The Salton Sea” has a couple of realistic
tweeker paranoia scenes, despite being a mediocre film
overall.

E rules, but crank sucks…

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 4, 2004 at 6:16:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

I went to the website that you listed- mothers against
methamphetamines…They have several brain scans of
normal individuals, starkly contrasted with
individuals who take crystal meth(ice, glass, etc..).
Their dopamine levels are SCREWED!!  After one year of
no drug use, levels seemed to return to ‘normal’,
though never pre-drug ‘normal’.

I personally love MDMA- what an awesome drug!!
Non-addictive, euphoric, the whole shabang!!
Crystal/ice are a different story altogether- I had
the misfortune of rooming with a guy who was addicted
to crank- he eventually had a severe
paranoid/psychotic episode, in which he thought the
“TV people were after him- they have cameras
everywhere!!”, and ended up in an asylum for 8 months.
The movie “The Salton Sea” has a couple of realistic
tweeker paranoia scenes, despite being a mediocre film
overall.

Yeah, it’s pretty well established that repeated use of methamphetamine
damages dopaminergic neurons (repeated use of cocaine does too).

There is some evidence that MDMA damages SERT (serotonin reuptake)
neurons, but there’s still a reasonable amount of controversy over this.

It’s also important to remember that just because something damages brain
cells does not mean that it will necessarily have an effect on
psychological functioning. For example, ANY amount of alcohol damages a
number of parts of the brain, but having a few beers isn’t going to make
you stupid.

It’s all about frequency and intensity…

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 4, 2004 at 6:13:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 08:49 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Rick Doblin of MAPS is publishing
an article in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, all
about the propaganda used by the feds to actively suppress mdma contrary to
all the scientific evidence showing just how full of malarky the feds are
and always have been. There are no holes in brains prodced by MDMA anyway-
that all said, perhap methamphetamines are different?

As I recall the article, it stated that the researchers mistakenly were basing their mdma findings on brain scan data from methamphetamine users.

I know an “ice” user, who personally told me he had PET scans done of his brain ‘and there are definitely “holes”‘. wether these are actual holes, or areas of inactivity, I’m not sure. Originally the scans were done because he took a major fall off a high ladder (tweaking, no doubt) and was unconscious in the hospital for 3 days. The doctor was amazed he could talk or walk for that matter when he regained consciousness, based on what he saw in the brain scans.

This individual is highly paranoid and schizophrenic, unemployable, missing 80% of his teeth and completely strung out and destitute. 2 years ago he was healthy, attending meetings, running a house framing crew and driving a $28,000 truck. An Ex-heroin addict turned IceHead. I couldn’t imagine a worse fate.

He continues to use because he can’t stop, and his attitude is like, “well, my brain is already destroyed so i might as well go for broke”.

methamphetamine is a terrible drug, far more toxicly devastating than Heroin. Very few ice heads ever get clean because of the devastating effects on the brain.

The crank problem in Hawaii has reached epidemic proportions, most of it being smuggled in from Asia, mainly the Phillipines. A smaller percentage is manufactured locally.

The west and midwest are also experiencing major epidemics.

Manufacturing and dealing a drug like that has some serious karmic repercussions for sure.

On another note Afghanistan has produced more heroin in the last 2+ years than the previous 4. I’d say there’s more drugs on the street than ever these days. But hey, it keeps the masses occupied and the money flowing. who can argue with that?

Its all part of the master plan!

_.dh

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??- Preston
Date: September 4, 2004 at 2:59:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston et al,

I went to the website that you listed- mothers against
methamphetamines…They have several brain scans of
normal individuals, starkly contrasted with
individuals who take crystal meth(ice, glass, etc..).
Their dopamine levels are SCREWED!!  After one year of
no drug use, levels seemed to return to ‘normal’,
though never pre-drug ‘normal’.

I personally love MDMA- what an awesome drug!!
Non-addictive, euphoric, the whole shabang!!
Crystal/ice are a different story altogether- I had
the misfortune of rooming with a guy who was addicted
to crank- he eventually had a severe
paranoid/psychotic episode, in which he thought the
“TV people were after him- they have cameras
everywhere!!”, and ended up in an asylum for 8 months.
The movie “The Salton Sea” has a couple of realistic
tweeker paranoia scenes, despite being a mediocre film
overall.

E rules, but crank sucks…

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 4, 2004 at 2:49:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A question:  Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????<

So far as I know opiates are the very least damaging of substances we can be
putting into our bodies, in terms of actual physical damage resulting as a
direct result of opiate use. But I do want to point out that the whole
“holes in brains” thing that the ONDCP and US Government shoved down our
thoats is and always was total bullshit. Rick Doblin of MAPS is publishing
an article in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, all
about the propaganda used by the feds to actively suppress mdma contrary to
all the scientific evidence showing just how full of malarky the feds are
and always have been. There are no holes in brains prodced by MDMA anyway-
that all said, perhap methamphetamines are different? I don’t think so, even
though they are similar substances.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 12:25 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

Oh…My…God…

I went to that MAMI website, read their
propoganda(‘Red Devil Lye Booklet’), and was VERY
disturbed.  God, I’m so glad I didn’t ever get into
crystal meth- what a f*cked up drug!!

A question:  Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????

I would love to hear from someone who has looked into
this.  God, this website sent chills down my back..

Cheers,
Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 4, 2004 at 2:34:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the biggest danger for heroin users is usually found in the cut or deadly subsitiutes in street dope, and the lifestyle that haunts most heroin addicts.

all kinds of wonderful things are added to dope, from burnt sugar/coffee grinds to scopalamine, xanex and battery acid.

Impurities depend on who you are buying from and what they have on hand to step on the dope with.

I’ve heard wonderful tales of mexican tar heroin factories where the guards shit in the 55 gallon drums that they make the dope in. Could have been a rumor, who knows.

Then there is the lovely flesh eating disease which I believe I read is a strain of strep, usually from dirty cooker/syringe/skin but there was also a bunch of addicts in San Francisco who got it from not cooking their tar, just dissolving it instead and then shooting it. I know this one guy who had to have like 40% of his rotting muscle/flesh removed  from his buttocks/legs before he died in the hospital. and he was a skinny addict to begin with. yum. makes me want to go out and cop immediately!

But I’ve never heard of Heroin specifically causing brain damage.

Heroin itself does little physical harm. that is unless you do too much but we all know about that now don’t we?

_.dh

A question:  Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 4, 2004 at 1:27:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh…My…God…

I went to that MAMI website, read their
propoganda(‘Red Devil Lye Booklet’), and was VERY
disturbed.  God, I’m so glad I didn’t ever get into
crystal meth- what a f*cked up drug!!

A question:  Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????

I would love to hear from someone who has looked into
this.  God, this website sent chills down my back..

Well, it seems to be a bit more complicated than “opioids do (or do not)
cause brain damage”.

Large doses of fentanyl have been shown to cause damage to the limbic
system in rats. Fentanyl in both high and low doses has also been shown to
exacerbate existing brain damage in rats.

That being said, humans are obviously not rats; and most people who abuse
opiates don’t abuse fentanyl (which is a synthetic drug, while heroin is
semi-synthetic). Heroin or morphine themselves are unlikely to cause brain
damage directly, however, it is possible that someone who uses large
amounts of either, and has frequent severe reactions (i.e. losing
conciousness) will cause themselves brain damage as a result of lack of
oxygen to the brain. Other factors not directly related to the drug itself
may also cause brain damage, such as poor nutrition, contamination in the
injection, etc.

So, in a nutshell, yes, some heroin addicts may suffer some brain damage
as a result of their habit, but it’s unlikely that it’s a direct effect of
the heroin. It also would be unlikely that this damage would have any real
clinical significance, except perhaps in rare cases (i.e. someone who ODs
quite frequently).

Alcohol is FAR, FAR more damaging to the brain…

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Serotonin-Boosting Drugs Cause Changes in Some Brain Cells
Date: September 4, 2004 at 12:51:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi group,

Just found a link to this article on one of my
drug-support forums.  Apparently, taking SSRIs for an
extended period of time, can have detrimental effects
on your brain cells!

Julie

Jefferson Scientists Show Several Serotonin-Boosting
Drugs Cause Changes in Some Brain Cells
Some cells shriveled, while others took on corkscrew
shapes

Researchers from Jefferson Medical College in
Philadelphia have found changes in brain cells in rats
treated with large doses of several anti-depressant or
anti-obesity drugs. In some cases, the cells shriveled
or took on abnormal corkscrew shapes. While the
clinical significance of the findings isn’t known, the
scientists say, they may raise new concerns about the
prolonged use of such commonly prescribed drugs as
fluoxetine (Prozac) and sertraline (Zoloft). The work
also highlights the need for similar studies on other
classes of drugs that act on the central nervous
system.

The scientists, led by Madhu Kalia, M.D., Ph.D.,
M.B.A., professor of biochemistry, molecular
pharmacology, anesthesiology, and neurosurgery at
Jefferson Medical College of Thomas Jefferson
University in Philadelphia, compared the effects of
giving high doses for four days of four drugs –
Prozac, Zoloft, sibutramine (Meridia) and
dexfenfluramine (Redux) – on rat brain cells. Each rat
received only one drug.

In the study, after the toxic doses of drugs were
halted, and the animals’ brains subsequently examined,
the researchers saw marked changes in some nerve
terminals, which actively release the brain chemical
serotonin.

These drugs, collectively known as Selective Serotonin
Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), increase the level of
serotonin, which is vital to brain cell communication.
Low serotonin levels are linked to mood and eating
disorders.

Dr. Kalia and her colleagues at Jefferson and at the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the
National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health
in Morgantown, WVa., report their results March 6 in
the journal Brain Research.

The question remains, what do these findings mean. “We
don’t know if results with four days of drug treatment
are clinically significant,” Dr. Kalia says. “We don’t
know if the cells are dying. That’s the key question.
We need to do more studies to prove cell death. These
effects may be transient and reversible. Or they may
be permanent.”

Prozac and Zoloft are Food and Drug
Administration-approved medications for the treatment
of depression and other central nervous system
disorders. Meridia is marketed for the treatment of
obesity. The anti-obesity drug Redux was pulled from
the market in 1997 after reports of heart valve
damage.

Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), known as the
street drug Ecstasy, is an amphetamine-derivative that
is known to be toxic to some brain cells. MDMA and
another drug, 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT), were
used as controls because both drugs push serotonin out
of the brain cells. The brain cell changes with SSRIs
were similar to those observed with MDMA.

Serotonin is ubiquitous in the central nervous system,
making it a frequent target of potential drugs. Drugs
such as Prozac and Zoloft raise serotonin levels for
depression and panic attacks, for example. Another
class of SSRIs – anti-anorectics – includes drugs such
as Meridia and its predecessor, Redux. Such drugs
block the circulating serotonin, a neurotransmitter.
Once brain cells use serotonin, it’s recycled in the
brain. SSRIs keep serotonin from being recirculated
back to the brain for subsequent use, allowing the
chemical to stay active in the brain.

More than a decade ago, rat studies showed that high
doses of Redux could change the shape of some brain
terminals, says Dr. Kalia. Some researchers attributed
the effect to the fact that the drug was also a
serotonin releaser. It pumps extra serotonin out of
the brain cell, depleting the brain cell nerve
terminal, rather than just blocking serotonin from
entering back into the cell.

“It was a big mystery why these brain terminals looked
like corkscrews with high doses,” Dr. Kalia remembers.
But, she says, few scientists examined all SSRIs. “We
asked the question, ‘Would other SSRI’s cause the same
effects in high doses’?”

Because patients are using some of these drugs for
long periods – and scientists aren’t sure of what the
long-term effects of many of these drugs might be –
she and her co-workers plan to do long-term studies in
animals. “We would lower the doses to about 10 to 30
times the therapeutic dose and give it to the rats for
six months or a year, looking at them at selected
periods of time to ask the questions, ‘Can we see
these changes in serotonin cells over the long term,
or does the brain adjust?’” she says.

The scientists would then examine the long-term
effects of the drugs and examine the behavioral and
neurological effects of these brain changes. “We need
to find out if these changes are effecting behavioral
changes in the rat and in patients.

“The problems with human studies is we can’t do such
experiments in controlled environment,” she explains.
One difficulty with using such drugs, she says, is
that several of them are given to patients who already
have psychological problems such as depression and
mood swings. They may or may not develop neurological
problems following drug treatment. Though that isn’t
necessarily the case with patients taking anti-obesity
drugs, she points out, in any case, “the possibility
of overlooking any drug-induced neurological changes
must be considered.”

Published: 2-29-2000

__________________________________
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 4, 2004 at 12:43:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

Opiates are okay only they are not legal and that is the only thing.
They are the perfect natural pain medication, if they where legal
that’s less money in the pocket of someone who really doesn’t like it.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 september 2004 18:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??

Oh…My…God…

I went to that MAMI website, read their
propoganda(‘Red Devil Lye Booklet’), and was VERY
disturbed.  God, I’m so glad I didn’t ever get into
crystal meth- what a f*cked up drug!!

A question:  Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????

I would love to hear from someone who has looked into
this.  God, this website sent chills down my back..

Cheers,
Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Is indra worth trying? I Really need a little help.
Date: September 4, 2004 at 12:42:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim,

As far as I remember the ratio is 5:1 relative to the HCL form of ibogaine. However I don’t think that necessarily means taking 5 times more. Sara can give you advice on that.

If its your first time taking eboga then my experience is it works pretty well and is a much smoother experience. There are other alkaloids at work. Follow up experiences are less predictable than with the HCL in my own experience. However if your aim is solely addiction interruption then I don’t think that is an issue.
If your initial objective is addiction interruption and you are working with the help of a non-experienced provider/facilitator I would very much recommend the extract as it is a physically less demanding journey and from what I have seen is effective. It is also a lot cheaper. Hence make sure you have more han the amount you need for boosters/ follow up sessions etc or in case you throw up – if you can afford it and don’t feel concerned to be in possession. (By the way if you get the HCL at some stage, take it anally if possible as it cuts out the risk of loss due to vomiting and is pretty much tasteless that way.)

A second session some days later is a good idea to cement the work. If you don’t feel you need it, great. However it is a good idea to keep some extract/HCL on hand for when you feel you need it or are about to fall off the wagon. I suggest you try and build in some form of spiritual guidance for an overall program, by trying to connect with the entities in some way via some form of communication beforehand – hoping that the guidance then comes in some form during the session or after.

Just a few thoughts. Hope that helps.

By the way. If you need help with the dosage you need to supply details of your present schedule of drug use and your weight. Sara can best advise on that as she uses the extract a lot for her clients.

Safe journey.

Lee

jon grocott <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
Hi Jim,
       some Dutch friends of mine ordered and received extract from Indra some time ago and were pleased with what they got though they had trouble working the dosage out,( .dk is Denmark) – btw. didn’t that African/French guys’ address yield any results ?  Sjonny.
>From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [ibogaine] Is indra worth trying? I Really need a little help.

>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:39:30 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Hi everyone,

>

>I having a hard time getting Ibogaine since I live in the U.S.  I am considering getting a P.O. Box in Canada and have some shipped there.  In the mean time, and time is running out, can anyone PLEASE tell me if Indra is worth trying.  Has anyone here used it or know anyone who has.  Can you tell me if it is  Good, Fair, BS, or a waste of money.

>

>Another thing I am concerned about if it is shipped from another country and goes through Canadian Customs I will not be there since it is a P.O. Box, that can be dangerous.  They might kick your ass out of the country and if they do you can’t take the stuff with you for U.S. Customs will be waiting for ya.  You may of seen their ad indra.dk.  Also, could anyone tell me what country .dk is?

>

>Any help would be greatly appreciated,

>

>   – JIM

>

>

>———————————

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 4, 2004 at 12:35:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 september 2004 22:13
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?

First to discover life (of
a lower order) on some of the other planets in our solar system, then, as we
discover more planets that are similar to ours we can start to get a better
idea of our place in the universe.<

I’ve always suspected that most of us human types wouldn’t even recognize
alien intelligent life if we did find it, unless it shot the hell outta us,
because we don’t even recognize intelligence amongst any of the other
species living on our own planet. I hope the aliens are pretty self-reliant
when running into us, and able to defend themselves.
Peace and love,
Preston

Maybe they will show up, They are not afraid of people but are waiting for
the time which is right for them to come, time of transformation, when human
being start acting like one. until then there is too much confusion.
They will teach the “new” civilization what we are probably missing now.
There must be a button some where that has to be switched on but this is
only can be done if the system works correctly.
rhythm & tune.

Sara

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Do Opiates Cause Permanent Brain Damage??
Date: September 4, 2004 at 12:25:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh…My…God…

I went to that MAMI website, read their
propoganda(‘Red Devil Lye Booklet’), and was VERY
disturbed.  God, I’m so glad I didn’t ever get into
crystal meth- what a f*cked up drug!!

A question:  Opiates don’t cause permanent brain
damage(holes in brain tissue, permanently damaged
receptors, etc..); OR DO THEY????

I would love to hear from someone who has looked into
this.  God, this website sent chills down my back..

Cheers,
Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: Ginger Warbis <GWarbis@fornits.com>
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against Meth'”
Date: September 4, 2004 at 11:36:15 AM EDT
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

The only one I know of is Stanton Peele’s treatment of Project MATCH

NLAES Data on Alcohol Dependent Subjects
Outcome categories Treated (n=1,233) Untreated (n=3,309)
< 5 years since onset dependence
abuse/dependence 70% 53%
abstinent 11% 5%
drinking w/o
abuse/dependence 19% 41%
20+ years since onset dependence
abuse/dependence 20% 10%
abstinent 55% 30%
drinking w/o
abuse/dependence 24% 60%
Source: Dawson (1996)

http://www.peele.net/lib/projmach.html

At 10:24 AM 9/4/04 -0400, you wrote:
From the article I forwarded, originally from Sherrie on the DrugWar list:

snip-

Holley, who is a Christian, believes drug addiction is “primarily a
spiritual disease, not a social disease.”

“When I talk to these kids, about 20 percent (of meth users) are basically
healthy kids who made a bad decision. About 75 percent are broken, hurting
people, abused and battered as kids,” she said.
“They use this drug because it works. It makes them feel better. They have
been rejected and humiliated and miserable people all their lives. It just
makes everything better. This stuff works.”
She said a religious approach to treating addiction is the only solution.

“Law enforcement is helpless. They can’t possibly bust every lab. They can’t
keep them in jail long enough for them to heal,” Holley said. “Education is
helpless. They lack the resources and the moral authority to change the
situation.”

Tennessee is among 14 states picked by the U.S. Department of Health and
Human Services (news – web sites) to receive grants for expanded drug abuse
treatment. Gov. Phil Bredesen, who plans to propose meth-battling
initiatives in 2005, said much of the $17.8 million will be used for
treatment.

Bredesen’s meth task force has recommended using “faith-based and
community-based treatment options.”

“I don’t see a lot of success with the secular programs,” Holley said. “They
have diluted God out of it. As they have diluted God out of it, they have
diluted their effectiveness. Christian rehab centers that keep them for a
full year have about 80 percent rate keeping them clean long term. Secular
is 20 to 30 percent.”<

end snip-

Does anyone else have the figures at hand that might show exactly how
effective the faith-based programs REALLY are? Compared to the “secular”
ones too?
It’s very weird to me how this doc can sound so rational one second,
then turn around and say that religious rehab is the only sure fire cure for
addiction. What is that? I don’t think I would be paying money to see this
particular doctor for any medical reason, even if the doc was the last doc
on earth.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers
Against Meth'”

—– Original Message —–
From: SherriTheWriter@aol.com
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against
Meth'”

Click Here: Check out “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against
Meth'”

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=12&u=/ap/200
40903/ap_on_re_us/mothers_against_meth_1

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Some days, it’s just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

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From: “jon grocott” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Is indra worth trying? I Really need a little help.
Date: September 4, 2004 at 10:34:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,
       some Dutch friends of mine ordered and received extract from Indra some time ago and were pleased with what they got though they had trouble working the dosage out,( .dk is Denmark) – btw. didn’t that African/French guys’ address yield any results ?  Sjonny.
>From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [ibogaine] Is indra worth trying? I Really need a little help.

>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:39:30 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Hi everyone,

>

>I having a hard time getting Ibogaine since I live in the U.S.  I am considering getting a P.O. Box in Canada and have some shipped there.  In the mean time, and time is running out, can anyone PLEASE tell me if Indra is worth trying.  Has anyone here used it or know anyone who has.  Can you tell me if it is  Good, Fair, BS, or a waste of money.

>

>Another thing I am concerned about if it is shipped from another country and goes through Canadian Customs I will not be there since it is a P.O. Box, that can be dangerous.  They might kick your ass out of the country and if they do you can’t take the stuff with you for U.S. Customs will be waiting for ya.  You may of seen their ad indra.dk.  Also, could anyone tell me what country .dk is?

>

>Any help would be greatly appreciated,

>

>   – JIM

>

>

>———————————

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against Meth'”
Date: September 4, 2004 at 10:24:16 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From the article I forwarded, originally from Sherrie on the DrugWar list:

snip-

Holley, who is a Christian, believes drug addiction is “primarily a
spiritual disease, not a social disease.”

“When I talk to these kids, about 20 percent (of meth users) are basically
healthy kids who made a bad decision. About 75 percent are broken, hurting
people, abused and battered as kids,” she said.
“They use this drug because it works. It makes them feel better. They have
been rejected and humiliated and miserable people all their lives. It just
makes everything better. This stuff works.”
She said a religious approach to treating addiction is the only solution.

“Law enforcement is helpless. They can’t possibly bust every lab. They can’t
keep them in jail long enough for them to heal,” Holley said. “Education is
helpless. They lack the resources and the moral authority to change the
situation.”

Tennessee is among 14 states picked by the U.S. Department of Health and
Human Services (news – web sites) to receive grants for expanded drug abuse
treatment. Gov. Phil Bredesen, who plans to propose meth-battling
initiatives in 2005, said much of the $17.8 million will be used for
treatment.

Bredesen’s meth task force has recommended using “faith-based and
community-based treatment options.”

“I don’t see a lot of success with the secular programs,” Holley said. “They
have diluted God out of it. As they have diluted God out of it, they have
diluted their effectiveness. Christian rehab centers that keep them for a
full year have about 80 percent rate keeping them clean long term. Secular
is 20 to 30 percent.”<

end snip-

Does anyone else have the figures at hand that might show exactly how
effective the faith-based programs REALLY are? Compared to the “secular”
ones too?
It’s very weird to me how this doc can sound so rational one second,
then turn around and say that religious rehab is the only sure fire cure for
addiction. What is that? I don’t think I would be paying money to see this
particular doctor for any medical reason, even if the doc was the last doc
on earth.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers
Against Meth'”

—– Original Message —–
From: SherriTheWriter@aol.com
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against
Meth'”

Click Here: Check out “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against
Meth'”

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=12&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_re_us/mothers_against_meth_1

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 4, 2004 at 9:23:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jim! You know I’ve heard about that game played by that …uh..species! Some weird shit huh? Hey!!! Maybe they are on some shit?! waddya tink?

Later,
a dude

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Is indra worth trying? I Really need a little help.
Date: September 4, 2004 at 8:39:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

I having a hard time getting Ibogaine since I live in the U.S.  I am considering getting a P.O. Box in Canada and have some shipped there.  In the mean time, and time is running out, can anyone PLEASE tell me if Indra is worth trying.  Has anyone here used it or know anyone who has.  Can you tell me if it is  Good, Fair, BS, or a waste of money.

Another thing I am concerned about if it is shipped from another country and goes through Canadian Customs I will not be there since it is a P.O. Box, that can be dangerous.  They might kick your ass out of the country and if they do you can’t take the stuff with you for U.S. Customs will be waiting for ya.  You may of seen their ad indra.dk.  Also, could anyone tell me what country .dk is?

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

– JIM

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Is indra worth trying? I Really need a little help.
Date: September 4, 2004 at 8:38:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

I having a hard time getting Ibogaine since I live in the U.S.  I am considering getting a P.O. Box in Canada and have some shipped there.  In the mean time, and time is running out, can anyone PLEASE tell me if Indra is worth trying.  Has anyone here used it or know anyone who has.  Can you tell me if it is  Good, Fair, BS, or a waste of money.

Another thing I am concerned about if it is shipped from another country and goes through Canadian Customs I will not be there since it is a P.O. Box, that can be dangerous.  They might kick your ass out of the country and if they do you can’t take the stuff with you for U.S. Customs will be waiting for ya.  You may of seen their ad indra.dk.  Also, could anyone tell me what country .dk is?

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

– JIM

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 4, 2004 at 8:23:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Yea, I have heard stories like that, specially the old timers.  See, everyone needs someone to kick around.  Drunks arn’t any better than junkies.  But alcohol is legal and accepted so drunks arn’t as bad as those no damn no good, stealing, lying ass junkies.  Some people feel better in they can put others down, like I am a piece of shit but not as bad as those pieces of shit.

I found more help here than there also.  Addiction is addiction, they both kill, ruin you family, harm the body etc.  From booze to glue to shooting peanut butter.  Honest, when I was a kid they had on the news that some teenagers were shooting peanut butter.
Think for a minute, anyone that will let you sit there and see you hurting and not want to help because your on drugs rather than alcohol can not be that good of a person.  If you were bleading from a cut would they of helped?  Maybe their higher power will mention it to them some day.

You have come a long way, I wish you the best.

– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Hey all, this post is bringing back to me the reason I quit going to AA meetings. I can go to AA meetings and leave out the part about drugs and be just an alcoholic and pick up coins for years. I’m a junkie (I don’t mind the term) and I have to include that in all my thinking. The AA club I went to in Erie wouldn’t allow talk of drugs in the meetings and frowned on it after in the coffee shop. I wouldn’t talk about it at the noon meeting then I would go to work 2nd. shift and cop oxycontin. Every day. They didn’t want to hear about it. My sponsor didn’t feel comfortable talking about drugs either. He showed me how to play music in the bars without drinking so I could still play though. I needed that. I watched a kid get run out of an AA meeting for talking of drugs and then listened to my sponsor tell me that it was the right thing to do afterwards. That kid never came back. I kept looking for him and I never saw him again. To this day I feel guilty for not catching up with that kid when he left and talking to him. I could have got up and caught him. I didn’t because my sponsor was sitting next to me. Well, thats bullshit. I quit going bout 6 months later. This list is the only place I have ever seen where you can talk of any of this shit that you want. No hierarchy here.LOL Well there is a pecking order anywhere but it plum don’t matter what shit you took here. Thats pretty cool.          Randy

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 4, 2004 at 8:22:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Yea, I have heard stories like that, specially the old timers.  See, everyone needs someone to kick around.  Drunks arn’t any better than junkies.  But alcohol is legal and accepted so drunks arn’t as bad as those no damn no good, stealing, lying ass junkies.  Some people feel better in they can put others down, like I am a piece of shit but not as bad as those pieces of shit.

I found more help here than there also.  Addiction is addiction, they both kill, ruin you family, harm the body etc.  From booze to glue to shooting peanut butter.  Honest, when I was a kid they had on the news that some teenagers were shooting peanut butter.
Think for a minute, anyone that will let you sit there and see you hurting and not want to help because your on drugs rather than alcohol can not be that good of a person.  If you were bleading from a cut would they of helped?  Maybe their higher power will mention it to them some day.

You have come a long way, I wish you the best.

– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Hey all, this post is bringing back to me the reason I quit going to AA meetings. I can go to AA meetings and leave out the part about drugs and be just an alcoholic and pick up coins for years. I’m a junkie (I don’t mind the term) and I have to include that in all my thinking. The AA club I went to in Erie wouldn’t allow talk of drugs in the meetings and frowned on it after in the coffee shop. I wouldn’t talk about it at the noon meeting then I would go to work 2nd. shift and cop oxycontin. Every day. They didn’t want to hear about it. My sponsor didn’t feel comfortable talking about drugs either. He showed me how to play music in the bars without drinking so I could still play though. I needed that. I watched a kid get run out of an AA meeting for talking of drugs and then listened to my sponsor tell me that it was the right thing to do afterwards. That kid never came back. I kept looking for him and I never saw him again. To this day I feel guilty for not catching up with that kid when he left and talking to him. I could have got up and caught him. I didn’t because my sponsor was sitting next to me. Well, thats bullshit. I quit going bout 6 months later. This list is the only place I have ever seen where you can talk of any of this shit that you want. No hierarchy here.LOL Well there is a pecking order anywhere but it plum don’t matter what shit you took here. Thats pretty cool.          Randy

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 4, 2004 at 8:20:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Yea, I have heard stories like that, specially the old timers.  See, everyone needs someone to kick around.  Drunks arn’t any better than junkies.  But alcohol is legal and accepted so drunks arn’t as bad as those no damn no good, stealing, lying ass junkies.  Some people feel better in they can put others down, like I am a piece of shit but not as bad as those pieces of shit.

I found more help here than there also.  Addiction is addiction, they both kill, ruin you family, harm the body etc.  From booze to glue to shooting peanut butter.  Honest, when I was a kid they had on the news that some teenagers were shooting peanut butter.
Think for a minute, anyone that will let you sit there and see you hurting and not want to help because your on drugs rather than alcohol can not be that good of a person.  If you were bleading from a cut would they of helped?  Maybe their higher power will mention it to them some day.

You have come a long way, I wish you the best.

– JIM

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Hey all, this post is bringing back to me the reason I quit going to AA meetings. I can go to AA meetings and leave out the part about drugs and be just an alcoholic and pick up coins for years. I’m a junkie (I don’t mind the term) and I have to include that in all my thinking. The AA club I went to in Erie wouldn’t allow talk of drugs in the meetings and frowned on it after in the coffee shop. I wouldn’t talk about it at the noon meeting then I would go to work 2nd. shift and cop oxycontin. Every day. They didn’t want to hear about it. My sponsor didn’t feel comfortable talking about drugs either. He showed me how to play music in the bars without drinking so I could still play though. I needed that. I watched a kid get run out of an AA meeting for talking of drugs and then listened to my sponsor tell me that it was the right thing to do afterwards. That kid never came back. I kept looking for him and I never saw him again. To this day I feel guilty for not catching up with that kid when he left and talking to him. I could have got up and caught him. I didn’t because my sponsor was sitting next to me. Well, thats bullshit. I quit going bout 6 months later. This list is the only place I have ever seen where you can talk of any of this shit that you want. No hierarchy here.LOL Well there is a pecking order anywhere but it plum don’t matter what shit you took here. Thats pretty cool.          Randy
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 4, 2004 at 8:03:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

I know you got your favorite ufo place to go like mufon, uforc, etc.  You may be interested in checking out rense.com and he ofter has those otter fellers on for an hour or two.  It just turned a pay site about $6 or 7 per month, the only pay site I want.  He also has Alex Jones I think from prison planet who gave a on the scene report of what was happening during the RNC, in fact the second day (Friday) he was arrested.  My favorite book was Fire in the Sky, where them their guys from Arizona all passed a lie detector about an abduction – great book.

From what I have heard the aliens like the planet but they say the people are weird, they all get togher an play a game called war and kill and maim each other.  Then rebuild and do it again.  Strange creatures them earthlings, strange.  Of course I don’t know any personally, just what I heard.

Happy sky Watching

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>First to discover life (of
a lower order) on some of the other planets in our solar system, then, as we
discover more planets that are similar to ours we can start to get a better
idea of our place in the universe.<

I’ve always suspected that most of us human types wouldn’t even recognize
alien intelligent life if we did find it, unless it shot the hell outta us,
because we don’t even recognize intelligence amongst any of the other
species living on our own planet. I hope the aliens are pretty self-reliant
when running into us, and able to defend themselves.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “mark connors”
To:
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?

> Thanks for kind words Preston.
>
> Regarding the article: I have been waiting for evidence of life out there
> most of my life. I kinda gave up hoping it would happen in my lifetime but
> when the rovers found evidence of past water on Mars I decided that enough
> and got a new celebratory tatoo. Lately though lots of activity has been
> happening. This signal is one. Also of signficance is a report soon to be
> published which details bacterial fossels found in a carbineferous (sp?)
> meteor which was found in france 140 years ago. I saw the pictures and the
> arguement for the structures they are reporting on being evidence of life
> out there is much stonger than was found in the Mars meterorite discovered
> in Antartica.
>
> What would be the impact of discovering life out there? Well, if we first
> run into a full blown civilization analysis indicates that economic and
> religous life would be thrown into upheaval. I think alot of people would
> expect another civilization to “save us” from whatever and problems would
> insue when they didn’t.
>
> I’m hoping that we will mature into an incounter. First to discover life
(of
> a lower order) on some of the other planets in our solar system, then, as
we
> discover more planets that are similar to ours we can start to get a
better
> idea of our place in the universe.
>
>
> >From: “Preston Peet”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: ,
> >Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
> >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:48:02 -0400
> >
> >Wow. I would really love to find out this were true, that it really was a
> >”signal” from another civilization. But would it really change anything
> >here
> >on Earth, to find out we really aren’t alone? Would humanity band
together,
> >or just continue in the same old vein?
> > What would happen do you all suppose were this report confirmed to
be
> >true, the same with the signal itself?
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston (now where did I put my tin hat again?)
> >
> >
> >
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: “Leigh Meyers”
> >To:
> >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:23 PM
> >Subject: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
> >
> >
> > > Reuters:
> > >
> > > Could Space Signal Be Alien Contact?
> > > Thu Sep 2, 2004 06:50 AM ET
> > >
> > > LONDON (Reuters) – An unexplained radio signal from deep space
> > > could — just might be — contact from an alien civilization, New
> > > Scientist magazine reported on Thursday.
> > > The signal, coming from a point between the Pisces and Aries
> > > constellations, has been picked up three times by a telescope in
> > > Puerto Rico.
> > >
> > > New Scientist said the signal could be generated by a previously
> > > unknown astronomical phenomenon or even be a by-product from
> > > the telescope itself.
> > >
> > > But the mystery beam has excited astronomers across the world.
> > >
> > > “If they can see it four, five or six times it really begins to
> > > get exciting,” Jocelyn Bell Burnell of the University of Bath in
> > > western England told the magazine.
> > >
> > > It was broadcast on the main frequency at which the universe’s
> > > most common element, hydrogen, absorbs and emits energy, and
> > > which astronomers say is the most likely means by which aliens
> > > would advertise their presence.
> > >
> > > The potentially extraterrestrial signals were picked up through
> > > the SETI@home project, which uses programs running as
> > > screensavers on millions of personal computers worldwide
> > > to sift through the huge amount of data picked up by the telescope.
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > I must get back to my spaceship now… It’s doubleparked.
> > >
> > > Leigh Meyers
> > > leighcmeyers@yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
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> > >
> > > [ Moderated by: Preston Peet |
> >.drugwar.com ]
> > > | -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
> >|
> > > | To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
> >|
> > > [ DrugWar List in Digest Format:
> >ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com ]
> > >
>
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 4, 2004 at 6:13:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, this post is bringing back to me the reason I quit going to AA meetings. I can go to AA meetings and leave out the part about drugs and be just an alcoholic and pick up coins for years. I’m a junkie (I don’t mind the term) and I have to include that in all my thinking. The AA club I went to in Erie wouldn’t allow talk of drugs in the meetings and frowned on it after in the coffee shop. I wouldn’t talk about it at the noon meeting then I would go to work 2nd. shift and cop oxycontin. Every day. They didn’t want to hear about it. My sponsor didn’t feel comfortable talking about drugs either. He showed me how to play music in the bars without drinking so I could still play though. I needed that. I watched a kid get run out of an AA meeting for talking of drugs and then listened to my sponsor tell me that it was the right thing to do afterwards. That kid never came back. I kept looking for him and I never saw him again. To this day I feel guilty for not catching up with that kid when he left and talking to him. I could have got up and caught him. I didn’t because my sponsor was sitting next to me. Well, thats bullshit. I quit going bout 6 months later. This list is the only place I have ever seen where you can talk of any of this shit that you want. No hierarchy here.LOL Well there is a pecking order anywhere but it plum don’t matter what shit you took here. Thats pretty cool.          Randy

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 4, 2004 at 5:28:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim! Very Insightful Man. Too bad you can’t get a few others in this country to hear you out.

Keep thinking man,

Julian

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 4, 2004 at 12:16:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

Always get a lot out your posts.  In North Jersey, the NA secretary says something like,”if you used any drug form Michaloab to methadone, you may not share at this meeting.

NA and AA do differ from region to region. Glad your area was not so closed minded.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against Meth'”
Date: September 3, 2004 at 7:39:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: SherriTheWriter@aol.com
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: [drugwar] “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against Meth'”

Click Here: Check out “Yahoo! News – Ala. Doctor Starts ‘Mothers Against
Meth'”

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=12&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_re_us/mothers_against_meth_1

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 3, 2004 at 7:38:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I never experienced that in the Detroit area and been to a lot of meetings.
However, I am talking 15 years ago.  I did hear that some groups in some
states (not Cal or Mich) did have that rule.

Wow, that must make a person feel welcome and dying to come back.<

I was specifically told in an NA meeting where I was a “regular” and knew
most if not all there, by one girl, who addressed more the whole entire room
rather than me but I was sitting right there in front of her, that “he’s on
methadone, and I don’t want my clean time ruined by someone who is still
using. What can he tell me about staying clean if he’s on meth. He and
others on methadone should just shut up.”
I saw her last weekend at the Bad Wizard show a few blocks from my
house, all hipstered and drinking. (I love NA, gosh golly, so effective and
such.) She’s always friendly nowadays, but that night I was pretty not happy
with her at all.
A number of folk did come up to me after the meeting to express sympathy
and support for me, saying she was outta line and to not let her comments
get to me.
But it wasn’t long until I grew tired of the whole schtick and stopped
going.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers

Hi Sean,

I never experienced that in the Detroit area and been to a lot of meetings.
However, I am talking 15 years ago.  I did hear that some groups in some
states (not Cal or Mich) did have that rule.

Wow, that must make a person feel welcome and dying to come back.  I had a
sponsor, he picked me a no-no in NA and he had me drive him to pick up a
dime of crack.  Then got up there and proudly accepted his one year sobriety
key chain.  IMO, methadone is a tool to stall for time or just call a time
out.  I know many people would of been in jail without it for a long, long
time.  Methadone can buy the time you need to get yourself together.  It is
hard to hustle a hundred or two bucks every day including holidays without
getting caught sooner or later.

I remember calling a couple detox places and they would say maybe in 3
months and I said nevermind I will be dead by then.   Now, to be fair I have
met some VERY good people who really changed their life around at NA
meetings.  I would say maybe 10%.  The detox centers seem to have a 10%
success rate.  Yep, alcohol and drugs is a tough fight.  I was at a thepary
center that was drug free and they said I could not belong if I took the
Valium that my doc prescribed, I said Ok bye.  I take them, I do not abuse
them, they did  not care that it helped my back.  I should of said when you
go to the dentist don’t take the Xylocaine (often called novacaine) that is
a drug.

Anyway, good to see your doing good. Hopefully, I will get my chance.  If
so, I hope I can be as successful as you.  I think you really turned your
life around, keep it up good buddy.

– JIM

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the meth piece.  NA does not allow a person to speak at meetings
if they are on meth.  A methadonian does not meet the 24 hour rule.  Very
non judgmental huh?

I have seen chair people cut people off the moment they mentioned they are
on meth.

Harm reduction is so much saner…truly the new wave in addiction treatment
in my opinion.

Pax,
Sean

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 3, 2004 at 4:12:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First to discover life (of
a lower order) on some of the other planets in our solar system, then, as we
discover more planets that are similar to ours we can start to get a better
idea of our place in the universe.<

I’ve always suspected that most of us human types wouldn’t even recognize
alien intelligent life if we did find it, unless it shot the hell outta us,
because we don’t even recognize intelligence amongst any of the other
species living on our own planet. I hope the aliens are pretty self-reliant
when running into us, and able to defend themselves.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?

Thanks for kind words Preston.

Regarding the article: I have been waiting for evidence of life out there
most of my life. I kinda gave up hoping it would happen in my lifetime but
when the rovers found evidence of past water on Mars I decided that enough
and got a new celebratory tatoo. Lately though lots of activity has been
happening. This signal is one. Also of signficance is a report soon to be
published which details bacterial fossels found in a carbineferous (sp?)
meteor which was found in france 140 years ago. I saw the pictures and the
arguement for the structures they are reporting on being evidence of life
out there is much stonger than was found in the Mars meterorite discovered
in Antartica.

What would be the impact of discovering life out there? Well, if we first
run into a full blown civilization analysis indicates that economic and
religous life would be thrown into upheaval. I think alot of people would
expect another civilization to “save us” from whatever and problems would
insue when they didn’t.

I’m hoping that we will mature into an incounter. First to discover life
(of
a lower order) on some of the other planets in our solar system, then, as
we
discover more planets that are similar to ours we can start to get a
better
idea of our place in the universe.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:48:02 -0400

Wow. I would really love to find out this were true, that it really was a
“signal” from another civilization. But would it really change anything
here
on Earth, to find out we really aren’t alone? Would humanity band
together,
or just continue in the same old vein?
What would happen do you all suppose were this report confirmed to
be
true, the same with the signal itself?
Peace and love,
Preston (now where did I put my tin hat again?)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Alien Contact?

Reuters:

Could Space Signal Be Alien Contact?
Thu Sep 2, 2004 06:50 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) – An unexplained radio signal from deep space
could — just might be — contact from an alien civilization, New
Scientist magazine reported on Thursday.
The signal, coming from a point between the Pisces and Aries
constellations, has been picked up three times by a telescope in
Puerto Rico.

New Scientist said the signal could be generated by a previously
unknown astronomical phenomenon or even be a by-product from
the telescope itself.

But the mystery beam has excited astronomers across the world.

“If they can see it four, five or six times it really begins to
get exciting,” Jocelyn Bell Burnell of the University of Bath in
western England told the magazine.

It was broadcast on the main frequency at which the universe’s
most common element, hydrogen, absorbs and emits energy, and
which astronomers say is the most likely means by which aliens
would advertise their presence.

The potentially extraterrestrial signals were picked up through
the SETI@home project, which uses programs running as
screensavers on millions of personal computers worldwide
to sift through the huge amount of data picked up by the telescope.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I must get back to my spaceship now… It’s doubleparked.

Leigh Meyers
leighcmeyers@yahoo.com

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 3, 2004 at 3:47:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sean,

I never experienced that in the Detroit area and been to a lot of meetings.  However, I am talking 15 years ago.  I did hear that some groups in some states (not Cal or Mich) did have that rule.

Wow, that must make a person feel welcome and dying to come back.  I had a sponsor, he picked me a no-no in NA and he had me drive him to pick up a dime of crack.  Then got up there and proudly accepted his one year sobriety key chain.  IMO, methadone is a tool to stall for time or just call a time out.  I know many people would of been in jail without it for a long, long time.  Methadone can buy the time you need to get yourself together.  It is hard to hustle a hundred or two bucks every day including holidays without getting caught sooner or later.

I remember calling a couple detox places and they would say maybe in 3 months and I said nevermind I will be dead by then.   Now, to be fair I have met some VERY good people who really changed their life around at NA meetings.  I would say maybe 10%.  The detox centers seem to have a 10% success rate.  Yep, alcohol and drugs is a tough fight.  I was at a thepary center that was drug free and they said I could not belong if I took the Valium that my doc prescribed, I said Ok bye.  I take them, I do not abuse them, they did  not care that it helped my back.  I should of said when you go to the dentist don’t take the Xylocaine (often called novacaine) that is a drug.

Anyway, good to see your doing good. Hopefully, I will get my chance.  If so, I hope I can be as successful as you.  I think you really turned your life around, keep it up good buddy.

– JIM
UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the meth piece.  NA does not allow a person to speak at meetings if they are on meth.  A methadonian does not meet the 24 hour rule.  Very non judgmental huh?

I have seen chair people cut people off the moment they mentioned they are on meth.

Harm reduction is so much saner…truly the new wave in addiction treatment in my opinion.

Pax,
Sean

Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions- Jim
Date: September 3, 2004 at 3:11:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,

Yes, it will, I will be able to tell others who ask me.

Thank you,

– JIM

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jim,

Hey there- the company’s name is Ethnogarden-
http://www.ethnogarden.com

Hope that helps,

Julie

__________________________________
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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 3, 2004 at 11:55:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for kind words Preston.

Regarding the article: I have been waiting for evidence of life out there most of my life. I kinda gave up hoping it would happen in my lifetime but when the rovers found evidence of past water on Mars I decided that enough and got a new celebratory tatoo. Lately though lots of activity has been happening. This signal is one. Also of signficance is a report soon to be published which details bacterial fossels found in a carbineferous (sp?) meteor which was found in france 140 years ago. I saw the pictures and the arguement for the structures they are reporting on being evidence of life out there is much stonger than was found in the Mars meterorite discovered in Antartica.

What would be the impact of discovering life out there? Well, if we first run into a full blown civilization analysis indicates that economic and religous life would be thrown into upheaval. I think alot of people would expect another civilization to “save us” from whatever and problems would insue when they didn’t.

I’m hoping that we will mature into an incounter. First to discover life (of a lower order) on some of the other planets in our solar system, then, as we discover more planets that are similar to ours we can start to get a better idea of our place in the universe.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:48:02 -0400

Wow. I would really love to find out this were true, that it really was a
“signal” from another civilization. But would it really change anything here
on Earth, to find out we really aren’t alone? Would humanity band together,
or just continue in the same old vein?
What would happen do you all suppose were this report confirmed to be
true, the same with the signal itself?
Peace and love,
Preston (now where did I put my tin hat again?)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Alien Contact?

> Reuters:
>
>       Could Space Signal Be Alien Contact?
>       Thu Sep 2, 2004 06:50 AM ET
>
> LONDON (Reuters) – An unexplained radio signal from deep space
> could — just might be — contact from an alien civilization, New
> Scientist magazine reported on Thursday.
> The signal, coming from a point between the Pisces and Aries
> constellations, has been picked up three times by a telescope in
> Puerto Rico.
>
> New Scientist said the signal could be generated by a previously
> unknown astronomical phenomenon or even be a by-product from
> the telescope itself.
>
> But the mystery beam has excited astronomers across the world.
>
> “If they can see it four, five or six times it really begins to
> get exciting,” Jocelyn Bell Burnell of the University of Bath in
> western England told the magazine.
>
> It was broadcast on the main frequency at which the universe’s
> most common element, hydrogen, absorbs and emits energy, and
> which astronomers say is the most likely means by which aliens
> would advertise their presence.
>
> The potentially extraterrestrial signals were picked up through
> the SETI@home project, which uses programs running as
> screensavers on millions of personal computers worldwide
> to sift through the huge amount of data picked up by the telescope.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I must get back to my spaceship now… It’s doubleparked.
>
> Leigh Meyers
> leighcmeyers@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
<]=———————————————————————–=[
>
>   [           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
>   |          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
>   |             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
>   [   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]
>
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>
>
>

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions- Jim
Date: September 3, 2004 at 11:33:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim,

Hey there- the company’s name is Ethnogarden-
http://www.ethnogarden.com

Hope that helps,

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Jdi63@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 3, 2004 at 11:14:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions
Date: September 3, 2004 at 9:36:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Got the letter you sent the one where you said you would like to talk off line, hey, that if fine by me.  This is the letter I was talking about.  Did you send this letter.  If not I wonder who could?  Could it be the Martions or Ibo sprits?  Hmmm, wonder if they have to plug them in.  LOL

Sure, we can talk anytime you want,  I’ll let you know what going on.

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/1/2004 4:15:34 PM Central Daylight Time, pauljackamo@lycos.co.uk writes:
1-888-IBOGA-86
Call us anytime 24/7 for a free consultation.

I will be calling sometime tonight!
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bush Wants To Be Your Shrink
Date: September 3, 2004 at 9:11:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Anyone else heard about this yet? The Freedom Intiative thing?
Sorry about the long-ass link (three lines so watch out for that), but the
TinyURL that originally came into my email box with it in Rhino’s Blog,
didn’t and doesn’t work.
I’d like to hear someone else tell me they’ve heard of this, and that
I’m not falling for a hoax.
Peace and love,
Preston

Bush Wants To Be Your Shrink
Now Bush Wants to Test Every American for Mental Illness–Including you!
And guess who will create the tests?
AT:
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=830&mode
=thread&order=0&thold=0&POSTNUKESID=ec0b98f6b76c9e2c1e194f318b9caa5b

By Jordanne Graham Intervention Magazine, August 8, 2004

Next month, President Bush plans to unveil a broad new mental health plan
called the “New Freedom Initiative.” Never mind that it couldn’t have less
to do with freedom; if you’re a thinking American, this initiative should
scare the hell out of you.

The New Freedom Initiative proposes to screen every American, including you,
for mental illness. To this end, the president established a New Freedom
Commission on Mental Health, to study the nation’s mental health delivery
service and make a report. It’s interesting to note that many on the staff
appointed to the Commission have served on the advisory boards of some of
the nation’s largest drug companies.

The commission reported that “despite their prevalence, mental disorders
often go undiagnosed,” so it recommended comprehensive mental health
screening for “consumers of all ages,” including preschool children because
“each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare
facilities for severely disruptive behaviors and emotional disorders.”
snip-

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 3, 2004 at 12:28:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks good possibility. Had a full work up when I got home and bloodwork was normal but who knows. Certainly worth a shot. -M.

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

My back is hurting more and more only on the lower right side and I fear that its not muscular after all. Celebrex did nothing. Howard, do you think this might be a result of the gastritis and if so, why does it seem to be getting worse? Look, its a small price to still be paying and I’m still loving life in a way I never knew before but its still very annoying and now I’m just ready to be 100% already.

***Dear mcorcoran,
Is it possible that your lower back pain is your kidneys playing up.
I had pretty bad lower back pain a few years ago and was convinced it was either the muscle or my backbone.I went to a very good herbalist,
he told me it was my kidneys,I didn’t think he had it right,as,…it definatley felt like it was my back.He gave me herbs to take over a couple of months
and hey,..he was right ,it was my kidneys.
Just a thought,…on the chance it might help.                              Smiles Jasen(Aus)

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list
Date: September 3, 2004 at 12:26:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good to see you on the list. -m.

ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com wrote:
Hello,
A computer in my cottage as i hear the stirring  from a waterfall 30 meters away.  All is well, Preston.

F.M.

On Thu Sep 2 21:28 , ‘Preston Peet’ <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> sent:

it worked. yer on board.
Welcome here Frank.
Good to see you posting, that things are working, that technology is your
friend.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:49 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the
ibogaine list

—– Original Message —–
From: <ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu Sep 2 0:30
Subject: Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list

Greetings from Itacare, Brasil,
I want to say hello to new
friends in N.Y.C. I think we have had a good beginning and am looking
forward to continuing the project into several other locations as treatments
continue on an ongoing basis in N.Y.
There is much to do. As a
teacher of mine would say, ” Go as fast as you can, and take your time
about it”.
Thank you for all the help
from the assistants who came from many places in the U.S.to N.Y. and thank
you for the people who received treatments.

Love,

Frank M.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 3, 2004 at 12:24:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks so much Preston that was such a huge lift after such a long day. Its funny we were saying that what happened made one of them into an activist and one it pushed over the edge. I knew Laurie was in for the ride of her life but think about what a shake up that must of been for her.  Its like my sister getting arrested… and although in some ways it was much better than your random trip alone through the system,  what those people endured over those 48 hours no one should have to go through. Rashes and respiratory problems, antifreeze all over the floor of the make shift cells. A  C.O. told Laurie that they broke the system and although that might not be totally true they certainly made a dent and what is going to happen in the following days with civil liability and all the stories that come out are going to be what will expose whats been going on in a much bigger way than maybe anything else could.
Republicans come… civil liberties GO.
Thanks again and I’ll be in touch soon. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>The idea of a patient, Imo, is of a sick person receiving treatment. While
many feel that addiction is a disease, not everyone does. I know I do not.
By leaving out a word like patent, such issues, while fine to debate, etc.,
will not arise form the very beginning..leaving us in an eternal debating
society which never accomplishes anything.<

Thank you Sean, well said.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

Hi Jason,

Responding a day late to your message asking the difference between a union
and a patient advocacy group. As members of a users union, we are not in
the position of patient, but rather one of coming form a place of hey, we
may be addicts, but we still deserve respect and dignity. We do not deserve
to be imprisoned for non violent crime, and stigmatized in vital issues,
like medical treatment.

The idea of a patient, Imo, is of a sick person receiving treatment. While
many feel that addiction is a disease, not everyone does. I know I do not.
By leaving out a word like patent, such issues, while fine to debate, etc.,
will not arise form the very beginning..leaving us in an eternal debating
society which never accomplishes anything.

Sean

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:53:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Hello dear Sean,
What is a UU,and what is a no theist,also is the colour light golden white .purple white or brilliant white,(in the book of the dead.)
Your beliefs when you pass over are very important,what you believe you manifest.
Love is all there is. I believe and have read in more than one book,that when we pass over,you are asked,How have you loved?  It’s the only thing we can take with us.                                                                                                                               Smiles Jasen (Aus)

Hi Jasen,

As we say in UU, deeds not creeds.  More important what you do than what you profess.  Live long and prosper!  Really good post, thanks.  I mentioned the Book of the Dead because I remember a great deal of detail in that book about which color light a departing soul should go toward.  A friend of mine has agreed to read this book to me on my deathbed, if I die first.  I’m a no theist, but it sounds like a very peaceful way to embark on the final trip…..even if that trip is back to Gaia from whence we came.

Sean

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:47:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/2/2004 10:12:55 AM Central Daylight Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
It is not out of the questions that you are stressing some
aspect of your muscular/skeletal system.

I agree with Howard. Sounds like a strain. Strains and sprains are more painful that fractured bones!
Celebrex may need to build up in your system too. Look it up and see.
I would be taking Ibuprofen! I am a firm believer in it’s ability to decrease any type of inflammation thus it reduces pain.
I know you have gastritis so eating prior to your anti inflammatory is very important.
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:13:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

As we say in UU, deeds not creeds.  More important what you do than what you profess.  Live long and prosper!  Really good post, thanks.  I mentioned the Book of the Dead because I remember a great deal of detail in that book about which color light a departing soul should go toward.  A friend of mine has agreed to read this book to me on my deathbed, if I die first.  I’m a no theist, but it sounds like a very peaceful way to embark on the final trip…..even if that trip is back to Gaia from whence we came.

Sean

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Date: September 2, 2004 at 10:42:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello dear Sean,
Yes I am somewhat although I have not read it. I am familiar with Neale Donald Walsh the author of
CWG series (conversations with god)Not the religious,I will punish and judge you god,but the real I will only ever love you god.

I am also a reader of ,”The keys of Enoch” and I have been studying Classical Feng Shui for two years(Hard core study that is),I say
hard core as I have been interested in Feng Shui for many years and reading about it.I decided to get serious about it 2 years ago.
I am fully certified,but choose to become Master status,to become a master at this type of Feng Shui(Xuang Kong Feng Shui) I need
to study full time for a further 2 years,even then, I am not guaranteed a “Master”status.Also another prerequisite is that even if you know all there is to know about
this type of metaphysics (Which is not possible), if you are not kind and compassionate you will not be made a master.

Wow,I’m babbling on a bit here,though I will continue :). My belief is that when you leave your earthly body,..you simply just go home.
I believe we are all here to remember who we truly are,…to experience what we know to be conceptually true.(I just got the train bit 🙂 ),I’m not normally that slow.

Unfortunately religion has made a business of god, money and power has corrupted our sacred books(most of).And religion teaches we must fear god,and not so far back in history the church would guarantee you a place in heaven if you gave a big enough donation.It’s no wonder that more and more people are losing faith and dislike to hear the word God,as we have been brought up on a vengeful, judging,I will through you into hell type of Deity.

She is simply pure unconditional love,and he judges no one.This is my faith.As we know for every action there is a reaction,every thought word and action has a consequence,what you do to others you do to your self.What you want for yourself give to others.If you want respect you must respect others,if you want kindness you give it to others,understanding act act..I love Jesus not religion,I love the budda not religion and so on.
With smiles,Jasen (Aus)

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂

Jasen,

Thanks for posting some of your story.  Really glad you are seeing the light, and it really is not a goddamn train!

BTW: Are you familiar with the Tibetan Book of The Dead??????

Pax,
sean

From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list
Date: September 2, 2004 at 10:05:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,
A computer in my cottage as i hear the stirring  from a waterfall 30 meters away.  All is well, Preston.

F.M.

On Thu Sep 2 21:28 , ‘Preston Peet’ <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> sent:

it worked. yer on board.
Welcome here Frank.
Good to see you posting, that things are working, that technology is your
friend.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:49 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the
ibogaine list

—– Original Message —–
From: <ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu Sep 2 0:30
Subject: Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list

Greetings from Itacare, Brasil,
I want to say hello to new
friends in N.Y.C. I think we have had a good beginning and am looking
forward to continuing the project into several other locations as treatments
continue on an ongoing basis in N.Y.
There is much to do. As a
teacher of mine would say, ” Go as fast as you can, and take your time
about it”.
Thank you for all the help
from the assistants who came from many places in the U.S.to N.Y. and thank
you for the people who received treatments.

Love,

Frank M.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/
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From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine …
Date: September 2, 2004 at 10:00:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I will momentarily be in touch with you privately.  Your most welcome.  I liked your dad very much too, as did other people on the “staff”.  I think this is the beginning of the next phase in the ibogaine movement.  We will carry on!!

F.M.

On Thu Sep 2 21:23 , UUSEAN@aol.com sent:

Hi Frank,

How can I thank you?  You helped save my life man!  Thanks should go to you and your team.  NYC will never be the same!

BTW I am committed to remaining part of the great ibo underworld.  Feel free to private me anytime with volunteer opportunities!

Sean

PS  You made a wonderful impression on my parents.  Your support during treatment was A1.  Thanks again!!!!

Sean

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:30:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The idea of a patient, Imo, is of a sick person receiving treatment.  While
many feel that addiction is a disease, not everyone does. I know I do not.
By leaving out a word like patent, such issues, while fine to debate, etc.,
will not arise form the very beginning..leaving us in an eternal debating
society which never accomplishes anything.<

Thank you Sean, well said.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

Hi Jason,

Responding a day late to your message asking the difference between a union
and a patient advocacy group.  As members of a users union, we are not in
the position of patient, but rather one of coming form a place of hey, we
may be addicts, but we still deserve respect and dignity.  We do not deserve
to be imprisoned for non violent crime, and stigmatized in vital issues,
like medical treatment.

The idea of a patient, Imo, is of a sick person receiving treatment.  While
many feel that addiction is a disease, not everyone does. I know I do not.
By leaving out a word like patent, such issues, while fine to debate, etc.,
will not arise form the very beginning..leaving us in an eternal debating
society which never accomplishes anything.

Sean

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:30:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

My back is hurting more and more only on the lower right side and I fear that its not muscular after all. Celebrex did nothing. Howard, do you think this might be a result of the gastritis and if so, why does it seem to be getting worse? Look, its a small price to still be paying and I’m still loving life in a way I never knew before but its still very annoying and now I’m just ready to be 100% already.

***Dear mcorcoran,
Is it possible that your lower back pain is your kidneys playing up.
I had pretty bad lower back pain a few years ago and was convinced it was either the muscle or my backbone.I went to a very good herbalist,
he told me it was my kidneys,I didn’t think he had it right,as,…it definatley felt like it was my back.He gave me herbs to take over a couple of months
and hey,..he was right ,it was my kidneys.
Just a thought,…on the chance it might help.                              Smiles Jasen(Aus)

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:28:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it worked. yer on board.
Welcome here Frank.
Good to see you posting, that things are working, that technology is your
friend.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:49 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the
ibogaine list

—– Original Message —–
From: <ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu Sep 2 0:30
Subject: Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list

Greetings from Itacare, Brasil,
I want to say hello to new
friends in N.Y.C.  I think we have had a good beginning and am looking
forward to continuing the project into several other locations as treatments
continue on an ongoing basis in N.Y.
There is much to do.  As a
teacher of mine would say, ” Go as fast as you can,  and take your time
about it”.
Thank you for all the help
from the assistants who came from many places in the U.S.to N.Y.  and thank
you for the people who received treatments.

Love,

Frank M.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine …
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:23:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Frank,

How can I thank you?  You helped save my life man!  Thanks should go to you and your team.  NYC will never be the same!

BTW I am committed to remaining part of the great ibo underworld.  Feel free to private me anytime with volunteer opportunities!

Sean

PS  You made a wonderful impression on my parents.  Your support during treatment was A1.  Thanks again!!!!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Treatment
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:16:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark,

Congrats on your plan to try ibogaine.  And for having a good aftercare program.  Harm reduction led me to ibogaine.  Glad it is doing the same for you.  One has to open minded to use a drug to kick drugs, as Preston put it.  Best of luck, and please keep posting.

sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:13:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the meth piece.  NA does not allow a person to speak at meetings if they are on meth.  A methadonian does not meet the 24 hour rule.  Very non judgmental huh?

I have seen chair people cut people off the moment they mentioned they are on meth.

Harm reduction is so much saner…truly the new wave in addiction treatment in my opinion.

Pax,
Sean

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bye bye 5meo-DMT
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:10:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steve,

I like my republicans fag hating, my dems stuck in the middle of the road, and my anal sex very vigorous.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:08:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Marc,

Just seeing how committed you are to helping yourself and others is really inspiring. It seems to me, knowing you a short time as I do, that ibogaine was part of a very important healing process for you.  Glad you are taking care of the back pain.  Wouldn’t want to see that slow you down too much.  You are on fire man!

Pax,
sean

PS
Any word on Laurie?

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:04:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I just called the number you gave me and talked to a guy in the UK.  He said there is nothing that he can do to help.  I said what I wanted was maybe to get a P.O. Box in Canada and have them ship it there.  The guy seemed real nice and said he would see what he could do and to give him a call Mon or Tues.  So….. maybe, just maybe.  I have been throught Tennessee and love Nashville.  I made it from the Tampa area to Tennesssee in about 14-16 hours.  Then from Tennesses to Detroit in about 12 hours and was bushed.  Thanks for giving me the phone number and such.  If it helps that’s great if not, no harm done.  I guess you got to never quit trying.  I know another person or two who were looking for it.  I think one went to Eurogardens or something like that.  She was trying to kick 19 mg of methadone.  Damn, that met is a bitch, I have hears stories of guys driving maybe 10-20 miles one way to get their 2mg daily dose.  Everytime I was on it I had to do the H to kick.  It really doesn’t make sense.  Why not give the person dillies or codeine or Lortab or anything.  I have had met bother me 6 months after I stopped using.  Now, if you tell that to a doc most won’t believe that.

I’ll let you know how things worked out.  If anybody ask just say a guy on the forum.  Please don’t give out my name.  If you ever need some to talk to just drop me a line.

Thanks again Callie,  wish me luck,

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/1/2004 4:15:34 PM Central Daylight Time, pauljackamo@lycos.co.uk writes:
1-888-IBOGA-86
Call us anytime 24/7 for a free consultation.

I will be calling sometime tonight!
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:04:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen,

Thanks for posting some of your story.  Really glad you are seeing the light, and it really is not a goddamn train!

BTW: Are you familiar with the Tibetan Book of The Dead??????

Pax,
sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and USA
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:02:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steve,

Drug enthusiast is much more pleasant than addict isn’t it.  You should be in marketing dude!

Sean
(who used to be a member of the smokable cocaine smoking community. Then he took ibo.)

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:00:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the reminder Dave.  Music in heart louder than voices in head.  I think this dovetails well with Vector’s two step program.  Admit psychohood and just believe.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UUSean, belief, …
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:58:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Vector,

Thanks for your two step program. Become a complete psycho and just believe. Very doable in my opinion, and no sponsor is needed.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:56:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jason,

Responding a day late to your message asking the difference between a union and a patient advocacy group.  As members of a users union, we are not in the position of patient, but rather one of coming form a place of hey, we may be addicts, but we still deserve respect and dignity.  We do not deserve to be imprisoned for non violent crime, and stigmatized in vital issues, like medical treatment.

The idea of a patient, Imo, is of a sick person receiving treatment.  While many feel that addiction is a disease, not everyone does. I know I do not.  By leaving out a word like patent, such issues, while fine to debate, etc., will not arise form the very beginning..leaving us in an eternal debating society which never accomplishes anything.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Alien Contact?
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:48:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow. I would really love to find out this were true, that it really was a
“signal” from another civilization. But would it really change anything here
on Earth, to find out we really aren’t alone? Would humanity band together,
or just continue in the same old vein?
What would happen do you all suppose were this report confirmed to be
true, the same with the signal itself?
Peace and love,
Preston (now where did I put my tin hat again?)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Alien Contact?

Reuters:

Could Space Signal Be Alien Contact?
Thu Sep 2, 2004 06:50 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) – An unexplained radio signal from deep space
could — just might be — contact from an alien civilization, New
Scientist magazine reported on Thursday.
The signal, coming from a point between the Pisces and Aries
constellations, has been picked up three times by a telescope in
Puerto Rico.

New Scientist said the signal could be generated by a previously
unknown astronomical phenomenon or even be a by-product from
the telescope itself.

But the mystery beam has excited astronomers across the world.

“If they can see it four, five or six times it really begins to
get exciting,” Jocelyn Bell Burnell of the University of Bath in
western England told the magazine.

It was broadcast on the main frequency at which the universe’s
most common element, hydrogen, absorbs and emits energy, and
which astronomers say is the most likely means by which aliens
would advertise their presence.

The potentially extraterrestrial signals were picked up through
the SETI@home project, which uses programs running as
screensavers on millions of personal computers worldwide
to sift through the huge amount of data picked up by the telescope.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I must get back to my spaceship now… It’s doubleparked.

Leigh Meyers
leighcmeyers@yahoo.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:41:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

Did you ever call?  This is the letter I lost.  Today is Thursday and I think I will give them a call.

Thanks Callie,

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/1/2004 4:15:34 PM Central Daylight Time, pauljackamo@lycos.co.uk writes:
1-888-IBOGA-86
Call us anytime 24/7 for a free consultation.

I will be calling sometime tonight!
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Treatment
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:40:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

best of luck to you. Thinking strong, postive thoughts your direction Mark
C.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:57 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Treatment

Well, just sent of the results of my medical pre-screen to the place i
wanna
go for ibo treatment. I am really looking forward to doing this and have a
number of friends who are coming to my aid. I’ve been tweaking for 8 or so
years and have gotten clean several times but I need a real paradigm shift
and I am hopefull this will provide it.

I have personally lost so much: money, friends, self….

I’ve got a good aftercare program setup, am already doing harm reduction
counseling. I wish there was a place a little closer to home but I think
the
travling required is all a part of the build up for me.

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:38:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim wrote >Yea, the police are good at handleing protesters, they learned
from Vietnam.  But remember,  you ain’t seen nothing yet.<

I do agree Jim, I’m just feeling weirded out lately, and am looking at
things from new directions I feel like a lot of the time. I’m really just
taking the opportunity presented by this well traveled list to speak my mind
seeking feedback that’s a little easier for some people to give in this
almost anonymous fashion.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters

Hi All,

Well after years of protesting, the Vietnam War was finally brought to an
end.  Also, important people spoke out about the war.  After years people
began to listen.  First it was just hippies who smoked dope.  Later came
people like rock stars and movie stars and even some good religious people
like preachers and such.  And “normal” people who like I said before got
tired of daddy not being home or daddy getting killed.  And the wives got
tired of their loved ones getting killed etc. etc.  Mommies got tired of
little Johnny not having a daddy.  NEVER underestimate the power of the
women.  Then the news media that showed people getting their head bashed in
by the cops and that didn’t make us look that good to the world.  Kent State
was like a mini Tenamin Square (sp) It served as an embarrassment if you can
believe the U.S. can be embarrassed.  How do you end a war?  Good question,
you  tell me.  ! Vote it over – be for real.  We were fooling around in
Vietnam since the end of WW II, it lasted through 4 different presidents.
And after the was the U.S. admitted they were wrong and said there would
never be another Vietnam. The Britons are not too crazy about their lap dog
Tony Blair as we are about our moron.  They have been know to protest.
Blowing up a police car in not the answer, that will just get raise taxes
$20,000.    Wait till they start the draft and there is no way out.  What ya
gonna do when they come for you?  Yea, the police are good at handleing
protesters, they learned from Vietnam.  But remember,  you ain’t seen
nothing yet.

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The only thing I can say right now, in my utterly exhausted state, is that
while I completely support the rights of the protesting folk to do so, and
empathize with many if not most of them and their causes, all I can see
being accomplished by this week’s protests, just like all other street
protests in the past few decades, are two things-
One, and maybe the most important, is that the rest of the world sees that
we are not all “good” Americans and acting like good little Nazis,
And two, and much more depressing, is that the protesters are handing on
silver platters one instance after another where the NYPD and whatever other
authorities there are can show the world how good they are at corralling
huge numbers of protesters any time they damn well please and arresting them
(and comitting violence upon them) all without hesitation- using one 80th
the number of police compared to protesters. It shows the world how good the
authorities are at manipulating protestors, leading them whereever they want
them, and shutting them down at their leasure.
Sorry, I’m really tired and a bit grumpy, but I’m not feeling
particularly generous towards anyone at all resorting to violent tactics (or
any tactics) that impose others’ wills on me and mine.
It also gives the mainstream media the chance, over and over, to portray
the protesters as violent, maniacal, rowdy, dirty, and whatever other
picture they’d like to paint when portraying those of us who disagree with
the system.
So, I don’t see how the protests are helping in one little bit- other
than to allow some people to feel like “hey, look at all these like minded
people, I’m in yet another herd!” Or something. I mean, more power to those
who want to go out in the streets raising Cain and venting loudly about this
and that and th! e other, but what good is it really? Aren’t there other
ways
to change the system, without simply giving in and doing things the same
fucking way, over and over again, and expecting things to turn out
differently? Ain’t that a sure symptom of insanity? Gosh, I could swear I’ve
heard this befo…oh yeah, in NA meetings.
;-0)))
Peace and love,
A grouchy, exhausted, not-overly optimistic tonight Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters

Peaceful protest is a subjective term. What I perceive as peaceful probably
isn’t the same as what most cops think is peaceful. As long as no one is
bleeding, and everyone can get where they need to go, things are peaceful. I
don’t think the policimoes see it that way. They don’t want any one
disagreeing with any policies and they are very nervous right now. Probabl!
y
for good reason. I wouldn’t want to be in a cops shoes right now. But we got
a right to say what we want to say. Marc, and Dana and anybody else with the
balls to speak up right now are to be commended. You guy rock, just be
careful when you do it. Take some Vaseline and some eye wash. Randy

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From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list
Date: September 2, 2004 at 8:49:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu Sep 2 0:30
Subject: Fwd: a test to see if i have successfully joined the ibogaine list

Greetings from Itacare, Brasil,
I want to say hello to new friends in N.Y.C.  I think we have had a good beginning and am looking forward to continuing the project into several other locations as treatments continue on an ongoing basis in N.Y.
There is much to do.  As a teacher of mine would say, ” Go as fast as you can,  and take your time about it”.
Thank you for all the help from the assistants who came from many places in the U.S.to N.Y.  and thank you for the people who received treatments.
Love,
Frank M.

Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] GREAT IDEA JASON
Date: September 2, 2004 at 7:37:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Am I wrong in thinking this but aren’t there already
at least two ibogaine religions? The Bwiti and Marko
and Patrick have Sacrament of Transition which is a
legal religion who has the sacrament of ibogaine.

Peace out
Curtis

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:01:28 -0700 Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Jason,

EXCELLENT IDEA, much like the American Indian Church that legally
uses pi o tea (SP).
It would be an uphill fight but I believe we could pull it off.
With all the talk about having “In God We Trust” on money, Ten Commanments
in courts, this would be the most important.  This is about saving
lives.  Yea, it is high time.  As congress and the AMA, and DEA and
f***A, moves at snails pace how many will die?  If you believe that
Ibo has spiritual qualities and uses you should have the right to
use it.  Maybe this one thing we can squeeze in.  If you waiting
for the government, don’t hold your breath.  If you really want to
try it, get some organizers, people that are experienced in such
things and count me in – PLEASE.  I will do what little I can.

– JIM

Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca> wrote:

I think organizing is a wonderful idea.  Doing so without breeding
dogma will be tricky.  I’m curious, what exactly would be the difference
between a union and patient advocacy groups?

I think the boldest thing that could be done is to open a church
right here in the US.  A real, certified and sincere church.  I think
this is the most productive path, but I know little.

Who can deny iboga is a divine plant.

It is so great to hear about so much action.  ‘Tis Inspiring.

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Don’t die yet Patrick youre in another book bro!
Date: September 2, 2004 at 7:18:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Superfreak don’t die yet, you’re in another book
bro, this is brilliant you’re insane you really
are patrick.

Black Hat:
Misfits, Criminals, and Scammers
by John Biggs


20/
102-6772748-4898562?v=glance&s=books

Patrick you have a whole chapter and your chapter
is half full of heroin and ibogaine. Hats off Mr.
Black Hat, all those accusations might be slightly
true, you just rammed ibogaine into the Black Hat
hacking book 🙂

You just got MindVox slashdotted too, I think the
list is about to fill up with a lot of h4x0rs 🙂

Don’t drown Patrick, you’ll want to read it. First
page the harshest thing he called you was a myth
and a legend. He liked you a lot 🙂 He didn’t edit
out your heroin and ibogaine 🙂

Peace out, in south florida, swim!
Curtis

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] GREAT IDEA JASON
Date: September 2, 2004 at 7:01:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jason,

EXCELLENT IDEA, much like the American Indian Church that legally uses pi o tea (SP).
It would be an uphill fight but I believe we could pull it off.  With all the talk about having “In God We Trust” on money, Ten Commanments in courts, this would be the most important.  This is about saving lives.  Yea, it is high time.  As congress and the AMA, and DEA and f***A, moves at snails pace how many will die?  If you believe that Ibo has spiritual qualities and uses you should have the right to use it.  Maybe this one thing we can squeeze in.  If you waiting for the government, don’t hold your breath.  If you really want to try it, get some organizers, people that are experienced in such things and count me in – PLEASE.  I will do what little I can.

– JIM

Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I think organizing is a wonderful idea.  Doing so without breeding dogma will be tricky.  I’m curious, what exactly would be the difference between a union and patient advocacy groups?
I think the boldest thing that could be done is to open a church right here in the US.  A real, certified and sincere church.  I think this is the most productive path, but I know little.
Who can deny iboga is a divine plant.
It is so great to hear about so much action.  ‘Tis Inspiring.

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Planet earth to Patrick and Mindvox management
Date: September 2, 2004 at 6:23:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think MindVox is in NYC?

Let’s check. It’s in NYC and LA at the same time 😉
You have two or more network interfaces going into
something called Wiretap Labs, Inc. Which is also MindVox.

Isn’t it in NYC? I remember that being said one time, I
know it’s not in Florida. West coast or east coast.

Wiretap Labs is hosting the Wesley Clark for President
site too. You have a weird collection of clients. Guess
it fits 🙂

Peace out and swim if you’re in south Florida 😉
Curtis

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:05:19 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Superfreak, are you alive and is Mindvox waterproof? They’re evacuating
Miami.

.:vector:.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Planet earth to Patrick and Mindvox management
Date: September 2, 2004 at 5:05:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Superfreak, are you alive and is Mindvox waterproof? They’re evacuating
Miami.

.:vector:.

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Treatment
Date: September 2, 2004 at 4:52:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im going to try and do it in Canada. If not, will probably go to Europe. Mexico and the Islands are too expensive.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Treatment
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:04:01 -0700 (PDT)

Mark,

Good luck!  I hope everything works out for you.
Where are you doing treatment?

Julie  🙂

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Treatment
Date: September 2, 2004 at 4:04:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

Good luck!  I hope everything works out for you.
Where are you doing treatment?

Julie  🙂

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Treatment
Date: September 2, 2004 at 3:57:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, just sent of the results of my medical pre-screen to the place i wanna go for ibo treatment. I am really looking forward to doing this and have a number of friends who are coming to my aid. I’ve been tweaking for 8 or so years and have gotten clean several times but I need a real paradigm shift and I am hopefull this will provide it.

I have personally lost so much: money, friends, self….

I’ve got a good aftercare program setup, am already doing harm reduction counseling. I wish there was a place a little closer to home but I think the travling required is all a part of the build up for me.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 2, 2004 at 12:08:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,

Well after years of protesting, the Vietnam War was finally brought to an end.  Also, important people spoke out about the war.  After years people began to listen.  First it was just hippies who smoked dope.  Later came people like rock stars and movie stars and even some good religious people like preachers and such.  And “normal” people who like I said before got tired of daddy not being home or daddy getting killed.  And the wives got tired of their loved ones getting killed etc. etc.  Mommies got tired of little Johnny not having a daddy.  NEVER underestimate the power of the women.  Then the news media that showed people getting their head bashed in by the cops and that didn’t make us look that good to the world.  Kent State was like a mini Tenamin Square (sp) It served as an embarrassment if you can believe the U.S. can be embarrassed.  How do you end a war?  Good question, you  tell me.  Vote it over – be for real.  We were fooling around in Vietnam since the end of WW II, it lasted through 4 different presidents.  And after the was the U.S. admitted they were wrong and said there would never be another Vietnam. The Britons are not too crazy about their lap dog Tony Blair as we are about our moron.  They have been know to protest.  Blowing up a police car in not the answer, that will just get raise taxes $20,000.    Wait till they start the draft and there is no way out.  What ya gonna do when they come for you?  Yea, the police are good at handleing protesters, they learned from Vietnam.  But remember,  you ain’t seen nothing yet.

– JIM

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The only thing I can say right now, in my utterly exhausted state, is that
while I completely support the rights of the protesting folk to do so, and
empathize with many if not most of them and their causes, all I can see
being accomplished by this week’s protests, just like all other street
protests in the past few decades, are two things-
One, and maybe the most important, is that the rest of the world sees that
we are not all “good” Americans and acting like good little Nazis,
And two, and much more depressing, is that the protesters are handing on
silver platters one instance after another where the NYPD and whatever other
authorities there are can show the world how good they are at corralling
huge numbers of protesters any time they damn well please and arresting them
(and comitting violence upon them) all without hesitation- using one 80th
the number of police compared to protesters. It shows the world how good the
authorities are at manipulating protestors, leading them whereever they want
them, and shutting them down at their leasure.
Sorry, I’m really tired and a bit grumpy, but I’m not feeling
particularly generous towards anyone at all resorting to violent tactics (or
any tactics) that impose others’ wills on me and mine.
It also gives the mainstream media the chance, over and over, to portray
the protesters as violent, maniacal, rowdy, dirty, and whatever other
picture they’d like to paint when portraying those of us who disagree with
the system.
So, I don’t see how the protests are helping in one little bit- other
than to allow some people to feel like “hey, look at all these like minded
people, I’m in yet another herd!” Or something. I mean, more power to those
who want to go out in the streets raising Cain and venting loudly about this
and that and the other, but what good is it really? Aren’t there other ways
to change the system, without simply giving in and doing things the same
fucking way, over and over again, and expecting things to turn out
differently? Ain’t that a sure symptom of insanity? Gosh, I could swear I’ve
heard this befo…oh yeah, in NA meetings.
;-0)))
Peace and love,
A grouchy, exhausted, not-overly optimistic tonight Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters

Peaceful protest is a subjective term. What I perceive as peaceful probably
isn’t the same as what most cops think is peaceful. As long as no one is
bleeding, and everyone can get where they need to go, things are peaceful. I
don’t think the policimoes see it that way. They don’t want any one
disagreeing with any policies and they are very nervous right now. Probably
for good reason. I wouldn’t want to be in a cops shoes right now. But we got
a right to say what we want to say. Marc, and Dana and anybody else with the
balls to speak up right now are to be commended. You guy rock, just be
careful when you do it. Take some Vaseline and some eye wash. Randy

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Heantos- apologies if this is redundant
Date: September 2, 2004 at 12:51:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi group,

Whazzup??!!  I was wondering if anyone has heard
of/knows about Heantos therapy- an alleged herbal
method of ‘painless opiate detoxification’?  My
apologies if this has already been discussed, but I
know very little about it.

Are there any new developments in regards to Heantos
therapy?  Is it available in North America yet, or
just Vietnam?

Thanks girls and boys,

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 2, 2004 at 1:55:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not to mention, 41 shots and they all walk away clean.<

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id298/pg1/

amadou diallo is dead
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@cs.com) – May 30, 2001

Even if the defendant is otherwise guilty, if he acted in self-defense, you
must find him not guilty. So charging the jury to consider lesser charges
for the four cops charged in the Amadou Diallo shooting trial February 17,
2000, Judge Joseph C. Teresi sealed the outcome in favor of the officers.
Amadou Diallo was standing outside his Bronx home after a full day of work
in his tiny stall on 14th Street in Manhattan, February 4th, 1999, when he
was spotted by four white police officers of the NYPD’s elite Street Crimes
Unit. These cops decided that Diallo was acting in a suspicious manner.
Exactly what followed will never be known, as the four officers had months
to get their stories straight. The one sure thing is they killed Diallo with
nineteen of the forty-one bullets they fired. One year later, almost to the
day, the four officers went on trial, charged with Second Degree murder,
depraved indifference, and reckless endangerment. Judge Teresi charged the
jury to consider other lesser charges, such as manslaughter, and criminally
negligent homicide. On February 25, 2000, all four cops were acquitted by a
jury comprised of seven men, five women, eight whites, and four blacks, in
Albany, NY, 150 miles away from the scene of the crime.

snip-

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine

most of them are Justin Volpe they just haven’t had the opportunity to act
out like he did… yet. Not to mention, 41 shots and they all walk away
clean. Its a disgrace and only getting worse. The NEW New York.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/2/2004 12:08:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
google Abner Louima. It’s a really sick story
Thanks for the link Preston and yes, it is a very sick story. Very sad story
too.
So many police officers have tremendous issues with anger and aggression,
even in their personal lives.
There are also a lot of policemen that were/are Vietnam Veterans who have
unresolved issues of participating in front lines of that war.
Seems like here in the USA we have people (myself included) who are
mismatched to their professions, i.e., police who are war veterans and have
unresolved issues, doctors and nurses who are practicing addicts, company
executives and accountants who are extortionists, politicians who are
dishonest and power hungry, politicians who are actors….etc.
Callie

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] more Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:43:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/2/04 9:54:22 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

My laptop quit on me AGAIN yesterday so I’m sorry for just getting back
now.
My back is hurting more and more only on the lower right side and I fear
that its not muscular after all. Celebrex did nothing. Howard, do you think
this might be a result of the gastritis and if so, why does it seem to
be getting worse? Look, its a small price to still be paying and I’m still
loving life in a way I never knew before but its still very annoying and
now I’m just ready to be 100% already.

While I cannot provide a medical diagnosis if you could provide exact
symptoms and indicate when and how they exhibit themselves it would help you
formulate a discussion with your doctor.  So, what’s going on?  You can take this to
private email if you wish.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:15:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

most of them are Justin Volpe they just haven’t had the opportunity to act out like he did… yet. Not to mention, 41 shots and they all walk away clean. Its a disgrace and only getting worse. The NEW New York.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/2/2004 12:08:40 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
google Abner Louima. It’s a really sick story

Thanks for the link Preston and yes, it is a very sick story. Very sad story too.
So many police officers have tremendous issues with anger and aggression, even in their personal lives.
There are also a lot of policemen that were/are Vietnam Veterans who have unresolved issues of participating in front lines of that war.
Seems like here in the USA we have people (myself included) who are mismatched to their professions, i.e., police who are war veterans and have unresolved issues, doctors and nurses who are practicing addicts, company executives and accountants who are extortionists, politicians who are dishonest and power hungry, politicians who are actors….etc.
Callie

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:11:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/2/04 9:54:22 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

My laptop quit on me AGAIN yesterday so I’m sorry for just getting back
now.
My back is hurting more and more only on the lower right side and I fear
that its not muscular after all. Celebrex did nothing. Howard, do you think
this might be a result of the gastritis and if so, why does it seem to
be getting worse? Look, its a small price to still be paying and I’m still
loving life in a way I never knew before but its still very annoying and
now I’m just ready to be 100% already.

Mark,

You have been keeping quite a pace getting around nyc during these very
exciting protests.  It is not out of the questions that you are stressing some
aspect of your muscular/skeletal system.   See your primary care physician and
inform him/her of your symptoms.  I am not a medical doctor.  When I get symptoms
of some physical distress if I don’t have the sense to get to a doctor my
wife makes sure I do.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bye bye 5meo-DMT
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:11:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey thats my home town your talkin about! Republican infested, for now. Rat hole, maybe. But still a hell of a town. -M.

Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com> wrote:

>i wan sum. never have dun it and wanto. very much wanto. Peace and love,
>Preston

Dude, DMT it is the shit. Gotta not just try it, but become aquainted with
it and learn. It is a sacred molecule. Try it in combo with mushrooms. I
guess as long as you live in a Republican infested rat hole you wont come
accross any.

Trolling around the DEA site (fun to do) I came accross this about DMT’s
cousin 5meo-DMT, it serves as a cautiuonary tale for all. Bye Bye 5meo.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr072204.html

This site is fun to masturbate to:
http://www.thefirsttwins.com/

A friend is a male prostitute, no I’m sorry erotic massage therapist, and he
says the busiest week ever has been with the Republicans. Must be fun to
have some vigorous anal sex and then decry gay marriage.
Steve.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 2, 2004 at 11:02:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vaseline huh? Is that in case they bring us into the precinct bathroom and sodomize us like they did Loumia?
I have grown up in this city all my life and I have been able to see who joins the police force from my neighborhood and from school and I hate to say this but its always been these kinda  powertrpping bully’s that couldn’t get a football scholarship or join the WWF. 95% percent of them get off on what has been happening. “Shit, time and a half and we get to beat up on hippies. Whoo Hoo!”
I watched a law student on Tuesday reciting the first amendment get pulled off a 5 foot wall, thrown to the ground and arrested. Where the hell are we again??? Is this really America?
I only wish Hallaburton or the Carlyle group had a few retail locations!
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Peaceful protest is a subjective term. What I perceive as peaceful probably isn’t the same as what most cops think is peaceful. As long as no one is bleeding, and everyone can get where they need to go, things are peaceful. I don’t think the policimoes see it that way. They don’t want any one disagreeing with any policies and they are very nervous right now. Probably for good reason. I wouldn’t want to be in a cops shoes right now. But we got a right to say what we want to say. Marc, and Dana and anybody else with the balls to speak up right now are to be commended. You guy rock, just be careful when you do it. Take some Vaseline and some eye wash.    Randy

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 10:53:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My laptop quit on me AGAIN yesterday so I’m sorry for just getting back now.
My back is hurting more and more only on the lower right side and I fear that its not muscular after all. Celebrex did nothing. Howard, do you think this might be a result of the gastritis and if so, why does it seem to be getting worse? Look, its a small price to still be paying and I’m still loving life in a way I never knew before but its still very annoying and now I’m just ready to be 100% already.
As for what went down at Union Sq. I’ll call you and tell you in the afternoon. But were now pushing 48 hours and still no word.
If anyone will be guided by Bwiti its those two but its not exactly the easiest place for inspiration, if you know what I mean. There now calling Pier 52 (Guantanamo on the Hudson) which is pretty fitting, don’t you think?
Freedom, what a fuckin joke that is!!!
So yeah, I took a break last night from the chaos and went to the US open. Talk about a contrast!  A couple of friends of mine have a luxury box, which was bazaar to say the least. They asked me to promise no Politics But the matches were very predictable and as Chaney started his speech  I could no longer control my anger in front of 10 Republican real estate people. I just couldn’t help it. But it was a spirited discussion none the less. Although when the topic of Iraq came up it was them who were doing all the flipfloping.
Quite a change of pace but still felt I was where I was supposed to be.
Today… Well today is a different story. Last night was talk and today is action…  especially after those speeches. So at sunset I think I’ll begin my night by throwing a few garbage cans through Starbucks windows. Fair enough right? ;O)
Hey is that Judd thing today? Therapy might not be such a bad idea before I start my pillaging. -m.

 

In a message dated 9/1/04 8:57:10 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

>Not too sure if its working anymore but something eventually will or it
>will go away but pain in the back or not life is so much better today.
>Do you remember what a loon I was on this list 6 weeks ago?
>Some news, we lost two of our Ibo comrads last night in the 1000 arrests
>of peaceful protesters.
>And yes, Ms. Laurie was one of them. ;o( I keep trying to picture Laurie
>in the system and its not a pretty site but hey, its a once in a life time
>only in NY expereince.
>Poor Laurie.

Can you tell us more about the arrests and where they occurred? I don’t know
Laurie but, poor Laurie. May the bwiti look after and inspire her.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] stigma, methadone, steppers
Date: September 2, 2004 at 9:17:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Journalist Maia Szalawitz had posted this missive of hers to the Addict-L
list on June 4, 2004 and it was recently reviewed by that list.  I thought it
would be useful to post here as well.

Howard

<quote>
Actually, the methadone pts who avoid steppers are simply acting
logically.

The steppers tend to want them off methadone and see them as “not really
in recovery.”  They want to give the lowest dose of the “evil” drug with
the most restrictions.  They want to “confront” them and get them “really
clean.”

Of course, this is not true of all and there are many who don’t have this
attitude.  but make no mistake, there are plenty who do.

What you want in a methadone counselor is someone who:

a) is humble.  the patient often knows more than you, they’ve been on for
20 years and you’ve worked in the field 3 weeks and you think you’re going
to get them “clean”?  Don’t kid yourself, the schooling that you went
through to become a counselor (if any!) doesn’t make you automatically
smarter, more educated, more knowledgeable or superior to your clients.

b) recognizes there is more than one way to recover.  recognizes that for
some, methadone maintenance is the best possible recovery and this does
not make them second class citizens or “not really” recovering or “weak”
or “wrong” any more than diabetics who don’t need insulin are morally
superior to those who do.

c) is encouraging, empathetic and kind.  If someone wants to come off, he
or she does the best to help him and doesn’t discourage this.  if someone
doesn’t, accepts this.  but presents options so that people who may not be
considering coming off but who might benefit from doing so recognize that
they have the choice. some such people may have had their own experiences
of being on methadone or heroin, some may be on it, some may have been on
it and are now abstinent, some have no drug experience.

d) advocates for the pt with management.  if someone wants to go on
vacation and needs 2 weeks take-homes, pushes for this with the doctor
rather than stands in the way because of prejudice (obviously, if the
person genuinely believes this request is going to result in sales of the
drug, doesn’t push for it, but doesn’t let prejudice or pique guide
decisions about things that are important in someone else’s life).

e) keeps up with the research and knows about drug interactions that can
interfere with methadone’s effectiveness and about how methadone peak
levels work and about what styles of counseling are most effective and
generally knows stuff beyond “what I was taught in school” and beyond “my
experience is…”

f) changes practices in response to research, too!

g) works to destigmatize methadone to give clients maximum benefit and to
prevent people who thrive on it from feeling obliged to come off because
of the stigma.

<end Quote>

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 2, 2004 at 7:47:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/2/2004 12:08:40 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
google Abner Louima. It’s a really sick story

Thanks for the link Preston and yes, it is a very sick story. Very sad story too.
So many police officers have tremendous issues with anger and aggression, even in their personal lives.
There are also a lot of policemen that were/are Vietnam Veterans who have unresolved issues of participating in front lines of that war.
Seems like here in the USA we have people (myself included) who are mismatched to their professions, i.e., police who are war veterans and have unresolved issues, doctors and nurses who are practicing addicts, company executives and accountants who are extortionists, politicians who are dishonest and power hungry, politicians who are actors….etc.
Callie

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bye bye 5meo-DMT
Date: September 2, 2004 at 3:13:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wan sum. never have dun it and wanto. very much wanto. Peace and love,
Preston

Dude, DMT it is the shit. Gotta not just try it, but become aquainted with it and learn. It is a sacred molecule. Try it in combo with mushrooms. I guess as long as you live in a Republican infested rat hole you wont come accross any.

Trolling around the DEA site (fun to do) I came accross this about DMT’s cousin 5meo-DMT, it serves as a cautiuonary tale for all. Bye Bye 5meo. http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr072204.html

This site is fun to masturbate to:
http://www.thefirsttwins.com/

A friend is a male prostitute, no I’m sorry erotic massage therapist, and he says the busiest week ever has been with the Republicans. Must be fun to have some vigorous anal sex and then decry gay marriage.
Steve.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 2, 2004 at 1:07:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh my God!!! No, I have not heard that story Jim!! When was this?? <

google Abner Louima. It’s a really sick story, which happened only a few
years ago now- and the NYPD defended the cop who raped Abner Louima until
the bitter end. I know everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty,
but Louima had the injuries and no real reason to lie that I could see. And,
having come up against many truely sick and twisted cops in my life, I tend
to side with their accusers more often than not, and I admit that is a
dangerous way to see things and I do try to keep a perspective that isn’t
completely set rigid. Still, he came out with the allegations while lying in
a hospital bed, hooked up to machinery and tubes that were keeping him
alive. The NYPD released all sorts of smear stories, alleging he recieved
his injuries during gay sex, because he was Haitian and everyone knows
they’re all pervets and gay.
Peace and love,
Preston

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine

Jim said
“They will have undercover CIA and military intelligence people infiltrate
the protesters.  They will maybe have several of them start some shit for
lack of a better word.  Then will throw rocks at the cops then disappear
into the crowd thus giving the cops the right to defend themselves by
charging the crowd and busting heads, an old but effective trick.  They will
have undercover narcs busting people for drugs.  Like one day they will
smoke weed with the protesters and next day come over with some Coke or
Heroin or whatever  then they get raided and the protesters end up in jail
doing time.  Now that gets them out of the way for maybe 5 or 10 years. ”

I believe you but it really hurts thinking this is how it is.
You are right, I barely remember the Vietnam war. I am 45. I was a child
when I would here about the gorillas( or I thought they were saying gorilla,
it was actally guerillas!)
The Desert Storm War and now the Iraqi war are the wars that have been
significant in my life.
This war on Iraq has changed many of myfeelings about politics and has
caused a sense of skepticism and a STRONG feeling of mistrust and
insecurity.
The veterans of the Vietnam war and those who also have memories of lost
sons and husbands need to tell the stories and voice the similarities so
history does not repeat itself!

(I know you live in Tennessee, but the cops held a man down and put the
wooden handle of a plunger up the guys ass so bad they had to operate on him
then stuck it in his mouth.  He sued for about 8 million and won.  I think
it was a cop who couldn’t take it anymore who came forward.  I am sure there
are New Yorkers you can ask if you want more info.  Honest, I am not making
this stuff up.)

Oh my God!!! No, I have not heard that story Jim!! When was this??

But we know Cheney and Bush and Rumsfield are not cowards, don’t we;)

I THINK THEY ARE COWARDS  but that is my opinion. One that is shared with
several people I know.

“You ain’t seen nothing yet”  Yes, things will be different this time, you
just watch and see.

I hope things will be different but I am afraid they will not.
US citizens need to unite and vote Bush out of office! I know this is not a
political forum but I feel I have to say it!
I am not convinced Kerry will be a  great president but I am hoping he will
be a president with  compassion and concern for the feelings of the US
citizens.
I hope he will call in the United Nations and tell them we made a huge
mistake in Iraq and we need their help to help those poor people over there.
Those folks need help but not the help of our young, immature soldiers. They
need the UN to help them re-build their city and help them establish a
government of their choosing not one dictated to them by the good ole USA!

Thanks Jim for a thought stimulating read!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 2, 2004 at 12:09:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How’s about DMT?…If it were only not so
darn expensive….<

i wan sum. never have dun it and wanto. very much wanto.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

“Want crack, snort some ibogaine instead.”

How’s about DMT? Works well as a crack substitution. If it were only not
so
darn expensive….

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 2, 2004 at 12:06:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only thing I can say right now, in my utterly exhausted state, is that
while I completely support the rights of the protesting folk to do so, and
empathize with many if not most of them and their causes, all I can see
being accomplished by this week’s protests, just like all other street
protests in the past few decades, are two things-
One, and maybe the most important, is that the rest of the world sees that
we are not all “good” Americans and acting like good little Nazis,
And two, and much more depressing, is that the protesters are handing on
silver platters one instance after another where the NYPD and whatever other
authorities there are can show the world how good they are at corralling
huge numbers of protesters any time they damn well please and arresting them
(and comitting violence upon them) all without hesitation- using one 80th
the number of police compared to protesters. It shows the world how good the
authorities are at manipulating protestors, leading them whereever they want
them, and shutting them down at their leasure.
Sorry, I’m really tired and a bit grumpy, but I’m not feeling
particularly generous towards anyone at all resorting to violent tactics (or
any tactics) that impose others’ wills on me and mine.
It also gives the mainstream media the chance, over and over, to portray
the protesters as violent, maniacal, rowdy, dirty, and whatever other
picture they’d like to paint when portraying those of us who disagree with
the system.
So, I don’t see how the protests are helping in one little bit- other
than to allow some people to feel like “hey, look at all these like minded
people, I’m in yet another herd!” Or something. I mean, more power to those
who want to go out in the streets raising Cain and venting loudly about this
and that and the other, but what good is it really? Aren’t there other ways
to change the system, without simply giving in and doing things the same
fucking way, over and over again, and expecting things to turn out
differently? Ain’t that a sure symptom of insanity? Gosh, I could swear I’ve
heard this befo…oh yeah, in NA meetings.
;-0)))
Peace and love,
A grouchy, exhausted, not-overly optimistic tonight Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters

Peaceful protest is a subjective term. What I perceive as peaceful probably
isn’t the same as what most cops think is peaceful. As long as no one is
bleeding, and everyone can get where they need to go, things are peaceful. I
don’t think the policimoes see it that way. They don’t want any one
disagreeing with any policies and they are very nervous right now. Probably
for good reason. I wouldn’t want to be in a cops shoes right now. But we got
a right to say what we want to say. Marc, and Dana and anybody else with the
balls to speak up right now are to be commended. You guy rock, just be
careful when you do it. Take some Vaseline and some eye wash.    Randy

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 1, 2004 at 11:43:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kevyn, Thanks so much for’ piping up’  as you call it!
Outrageous that those 3 women were jailed! Ludicrous!
Thanks very much for the link. very interesting read and unbiased news reporting!
Peace to all and peace on earth!
Callie

From: “kevyn at the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 1, 2004 at 8:37:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just need to pipe up on this protestor thread.
I am an activist. On many fronts, and one of the main ones is the anti-globailzation movement along with the anti-war.
I am currently not in NYC, but am doing support for about 100 members of our cluster who are there.
I host a website, where we have updates of what is happening, and I really suggest to those who want to see the truth, it may be biased, but it is a truth from individuals who are there. Not traditional media. Go to www.indymedia.org
That is not my site, as it is no ones. It is open media for anyone who wants to post anything.
It allows uncensored material to get out to the general public.

On a personal note, 19 of my close friends were arrested yesterday. Some had to pay a fine to be released from custody.
What were they arrested for? Gathering too many people in a public place.
What kind of democracy has arrests for such a thing.
Most of these, are women over 45 years old. Mothers. They are just wanting to have the chance to ‘say their opinions’ and for that they are being arrested.
5 are still in jail, they refused to pay a fine for walking on the sidewalk three abreast. The police told them they must walk two abreast, no more.
I find it insane.
I hope that anyone who wants to understand anything about why people would put themselves at risk of arrest, with no personal gain, to contact me or any activist and ask.

My wife, a 40 year old mother was previously arrested in Washington, D.C for gathering at 8am with 649 other people in a park. She was forced to pay a fine to be released and be able to return to Canada.
We paid our own way, quite a few thousand dollars, to travel to Georgia in June to protest the G-8 meetings being held there.
I had a right to voice my opinion as my Prime Minister was there, representing me, when the majority of Canadians did not support him even going. He did.

I am sorry for what protests do affecting local residents. We try and communicate with them, and do our best not to disrupt their lives.
But everyone needs to awaken to the kind of world we are currently living in.
I can not travel to the US now without a waiver. Because I have helped organize, train and participated in a number of actions from Seattle to Miami.
I have personally been shown the illegal files the police, FBI and other agencies have on me. I had the chance to view my file from some of those agents. Nothing I have done in those files is illegal according to the Constitution, but still I have a red flag attached to my name when I travel to the US.
I have had my photograph taken numerous times, without my permission, by police, which is illegal.

And of course, the ideas in the previous emails of infiltrators into the protestors has been happening for years. It has been documented. And I only see an authoritarian government who would fear the dissention of 100 middle aged women who choose to participate in non-violent civil disobedience.

Sorry for my rant.
Feel free to contact me directly off list with anything.
Or see what we are up to by going to www.pagancluster.org
That is our site, sorry for promoting it here, not my intent. I just thought that I should provide it after my rant.
Go to www.indymedia.org for independent reporting of what is happening.
Turn off your cable. They lie.

Peace and luv
kevyn

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: September 1, 2004 4:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine

Jim said
“They will have undercover CIA and military intelligence people infiltrate the protesters.  They will maybe have several of them start some shit for lack of a better word.  Then will throw rocks at the cops then disappear into the crowd thus giving the cops the right to defend themselves by charging the crowd and busting heads, an old but effective trick.  They will have undercover narcs busting people for drugs.  Like one day they will smoke weed with the protesters and next day come over with some Coke or Heroin or whatever  then they get raided and the protesters end up in jail doing time.  Now that gets them out of the way for maybe 5 or 10 years. ”

I believe you but it really hurts thinking this is how it is.
You are right, I barely remember the Vietnam war. I am 45. I was a child when I would here about the gorillas( or I thought they were saying gorilla, it was actally guerillas!)
The Desert Storm War and now the Iraqi war are the wars that have been significant in my life.
This war on Iraq has changed many of myfeelings about politics and has caused a sense of skepticism and a STRONG feeling of mistrust and insecurity.
The veterans of the Vietnam war and those who also have memories of lost sons and husbands need to tell the stories and voice the similarities so history does not repeat itself!

(I know you live in Tennessee, but the cops held a man down and put the wooden handle of a plunger up the guys ass so bad they had to operate on him then stuck it in his mouth.  He sued for about 8 million and won.  I think it was a cop who couldn’t take it anymore who came forward.  I am sure there are New Yorkers you can ask if you want more info.  Honest, I am not making this stuff up.)

Oh my God!!! No, I have not heard that story Jim!! When was this??

But we know Cheney and Bush and Rumsfield are not cowards, don’t we;)

I THINK THEY ARE COWARDS  but that is my opinion. One that is shared with several people I know.

“You ain’t seen nothing yet”  Yes, things will be different this time, you just watch and see.

I hope things will be different but I am afraid they will not.
US citizens need to unite and vote Bush out of office! I know this is not a political forum but I feel I have to say it!
I am not convinced Kerry will be a  great president but I am hoping he will be a president with  compassion and concern for the feelings of the US citizens.
I hope he will call in the United Nations and tell them we made a huge mistake in Iraq and we need their help to help those poor people over there.
Those folks need help but not the help of our young, immature soldiers. They need the UN to help them re-build their city and help them establish a government of their choosing not one dictated to them by the good ole USA!

Thanks Jim for a thought stimulating read!
Callie

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: September 1, 2004 at 8:20:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Shawn,
For your view point and experiences with Iboga and to all the others that
are and have been sharing their experiences. We,……the people that are
wanting to do this trearment, need to hear from you guys,and share your
experiences.                     Smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

Sara is so right about the way it makes you feel afterwards.  It makes you
want to be healthy and it helps show you how.  The trip is interesting but
not overwhelming or scary.  Sara is a great person and I would suggest her
place if you are going to try th Iboga.
Shawn

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions
Date: September 1, 2004 at 7:13:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/1/2004 4:15:34 PM Central Daylight Time, pauljackamo@lycos.co.uk writes:
1-888-IBOGA-86
Call us anytime 24/7 for a free consultation.

I will be calling sometime tonight!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ‘War Protesters’ off topic of Ibogaine
Date: September 1, 2004 at 6:56:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim said
“They will have undercover CIA and military intelligence people infiltrate the protesters.  They will maybe have several of them start some shit for lack of a better word.  Then will throw rocks at the cops then disappear into the crowd thus giving the cops the right to defend themselves by charging the crowd and busting heads, an old but effective trick.  They will have undercover narcs busting people for drugs.  Like one day they will smoke weed with the protesters and next day come over with some Coke or Heroin or whatever  then they get raided and the protesters end up in jail doing time.  Now that gets them out of the way for maybe 5 or 10 years. ”

I believe you but it really hurts thinking this is how it is.
You are right, I barely remember the Vietnam war. I am 45. I was a child when I would here about the gorillas( or I thought they were saying gorilla, it was actally guerillas!)
The Desert Storm War and now the Iraqi war are the wars that have been significant in my life.
This war on Iraq has changed many of myfeelings about politics and has caused a sense of skepticism and a STRONG feeling of mistrust and insecurity.
The veterans of the Vietnam war and those who also have memories of lost sons and husbands need to tell the stories and voice the similarities so history does not repeat itself!

(I know you live in Tennessee, but the cops held a man down and put the wooden handle of a plunger up the guys ass so bad they had to operate on him then stuck it in his mouth.  He sued for about 8 million and won.  I think it was a cop who couldn’t take it anymore who came forward.  I am sure there are New Yorkers you can ask if you want more info.  Honest, I am not making this stuff up.)

Oh my God!!! No, I have not heard that story Jim!! When was this??

But we know Cheney and Bush and Rumsfield are not cowards, don’t we;)

I THINK THEY ARE COWARDS  but that is my opinion. One that is shared with several people I know.

“You ain’t seen nothing yet”  Yes, things will be different this time, you just watch and see.

I hope things will be different but I am afraid they will not.
US citizens need to unite and vote Bush out of office! I know this is not a political forum but I feel I have to say it!
I am not convinced Kerry will be a  great president but I am hoping he will be a president with  compassion and concern for the feelings of the US citizens.
I hope he will call in the United Nations and tell them we made a huge mistake in Iraq and we need their help to help those poor people over there.
Those folks need help but not the help of our young, immature soldiers. They need the UN to help them re-build their city and help them establish a government of their choosing not one dictated to them by the good ole USA!

Thanks Jim for a thought stimulating read!
Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] To Callie – War Protesters
Date: September 1, 2004 at 5:29:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

As always I like talking with you.  I don’t have time to read all 100 plus letters each day but often learn something from your posts.  So, maybe I can give you my opinion which is really no better than anyone else’s, so here it is.  There are many people on this forum that are too young to remember the war, so here it is from a guy who was in high school when the protesting started.

The government learned from the Vietnam War or police action where napalm, mortars, hand grenades ect. etc. were used.  Most police action is where 10 or 20 cops with automatic rifles are used to bust a dope houses; not anymore for the New World Order is here.  Yes, they learned.  They did not learn to mind their own business and travel half way around the world to kill people.  I can’t remember one incident where any Vietnamese person or group did any terrorist act toward Americans.  No, they learned to stop the protesters.  See, it was that most Americans were wondering what the hell we were doing there.  President Johnson asked (I heard the tape) “Can anyone tell me what the hell is going on in Vietnam?  Can anyone tell me why we are there and what’s it all about?  Not one person could answer his question.

It was the American people who wanted the war over and were protesting.  We dropped more bombs in the 10 years we were in Vietnam than we did all during World War II.  The American people got tired of seeing their sons and husbands killed.  They got tired of having children grow up without daddy because daddy was killed.  Also, many came back with physical injuries and emotional injuries.  They got tired of the government lying like a bitch about things like Agent Orange.  After many years the government  finally admitted it can harm humans as well as foliage – both the Vietnamese and the people spraying it.  It caused rashes and weird types of tumors and cancer.  Remember, this was after many years of saying it is safe.  They learned to cover up the truth and they learned to stop people from protesting.  Oh yes, you as an American have the right to protest.  However, they are going to do ANYTHING within their power to stop the protesters.  It stopped one war, they are going to make damn it doesn’t stop another.

How? they will make it as difficult as possible.  They will have undercover CIA and military intelligence people infiltrate the protesters.  They will maybe have several of them start some shit for lack of a better word.  Then will throw rocks at the cops then disappear into the crowd thus giving the cops the right to defend themselves by charging the crowd and busting heads, an old but effective trick.  They will have undercover narcs busting people for drugs.  Like one day they will smoke weed with the protesters and next day come over with some Coke or Heroin or whatever  then they get raided and the protesters end up in jail doing time.  Now that gets them out of the way for maybe 5 or 10 years.  Like John Sinclair, he was a yippie who got 10 years for giving 2 (two) joints to an undercover cop.  That took place here in Detroit, the judge was Judge Colombo.  In fact The Beetles did a song about it where they say: “They gave him 10 for 2 what more can the bastards do.  That is a damn good way of getting people out of the way.  Oh and the county, I can’t spell it but it is pronounced “Wash tin aw” county where the city of Ann Arbor is as well as one of the universities that was involved in war protesting.  The sheriffs found it so so funny to give him a haircut once they had him in custody.  They wasted no time in cutting his hair.  I can guarantee the deputies went home happy that day.  Yes, a true victory, they cut a yippies hair.  If only he had resisted they could of beat the hell out of him.  It would of been the Rodney King special kind of asskicking.  Similar to the old plunger up the ass trick the NYC police pulled.  (I know you live in Tennessee, but the cops held a man down and put the wooden handle of a plunger up the guys ass so bad they had to operate on him then stuck it in his mouth.  He sued for about 8 million and won.  I think it was a cop who couldn’t take it anymore who came forward.  I am sure there are New Yorkers you can ask if you want more info.  Honest, I am not making this stuff up.)

They learned to target teachers or professors who opposed the war and fired them or taped their phone, or found dirt on them.  Similar to the FBI tapping MLK’s phone and threatened to tell his wife that he had a girlfriend.  Things will be different this time, there will be no going to Canada to avoid the draft.  People will find it harder to get exemptions.  For example Dick Cheney our vice president got 5 deferments, see how smart he is.  Funny thing about this Iraq war, everyone who started it has never been in war.  If I didn’t know better I would say they were chicken.  But we know Cheney and Bush and Rumsfield are not cowards, don’t we;)  Yes, the government has learned a lot since the last police action.  Things are going to be different this time.  They will reinstate the draft, put draft dodgers in jail, close the Canadian escape route.  And many other things.  For example with the Patriot Act they can put people in jail for protesting, they can declare marshal law, censor free speech, control the news media more than they already do.  And if worse comes to worse they can just shoot them down like they did at Kent State University.  That is when the Ohio National Guard shot and killed 7 unarmed people, some of them women at an anti-war demonstration.  Ya gotta admit that’s pretty brave.    Years before my time there was a man who would come on stage between acts and say: “Ya ain’t seen nothing yet, ya ain’t seen nothing yet.”  Meaning there was much more to come.  Just like the band Bachman-Turner Overdrive, they said it too in a song  “You ain’t seen nothing yet”  Yes, things will be different this time, you just watch and see.

Best to ya Callie,

– JIM
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/1/2004 8:57:18 AM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Some news, we lost two of our Ibo comrads last night in the 1000 arrests of peaceful protesters.

The pictures I seen on TV were not peaceful protesters! Maybe the arrests of the peaceful people were withheld from television.
I always thought peaceful protesting was within our constitutional rights as Americans!
I know the police in New York are stressed this week though! I was surprised when I heard the Republican Convention was at Madison Square Gardens.
Poor New York gets all the high profile events.
MTV did take it’s video award show to Miami this year though! lol! Yes, I embarrassingly admit I watched the VMA’s on Sunday!! In fact, I looked forward to it all day! LMAO!
Callie
__________________________________________________
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From: “paul” <pauljackamo@lycos.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions
Date: September 1, 2004 at 5:14:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The limited success of most treatment initiatives has left those in need of drug and alcohol rehabilitation with few options – until now.

Healing Transitions Institute for Addiction Recovery is now offering a revolutionary new drug detox & alcohol detox treatment program that is designed to break the vicious cycle of substance abuse addiction. This pioneering and comprehensive rehabilitation program uses a revolutionary drug, Ibogaine, in combination with new behavioral interventions and time-tested techniques.

1-888-IBOGA-86
Call us anytime 24/7 for a free consultation.

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From: “paul” <pauljackamo@lycos.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions
Date: September 1, 2004 at 5:14:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The limited success of most treatment initiatives has left those in need of drug and alcohol rehabilitation with few options – until now.

Healing Transitions Institute for Addiction Recovery is now offering a revolutionary new drug detox & alcohol detox treatment program that is designed to break the vicious cycle of substance abuse addiction. This pioneering and comprehensive rehabilitation program uses a revolutionary drug, Ibogaine, in combination with new behavioral interventions and time-tested techniques.

1-888-IBOGA-86
Call us anytime 24/7 for a free consultation.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 1, 2004 at 2:43:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it also makes you slippery as fuck and hard to hold on to, which can be a good thing.

_.dh

On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 08:36 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

You put the Vaseline on your skin before the gas comes in and it keeps it from burning your skin as much. Especially on your face. Not fool proof but it helps.      Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 1, 2004 at 2:36:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You put the Vaseline on your skin before the gas comes in and it keeps it from burning your skin as much. Especially on your face. Not fool proof but it helps.      Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 1, 2004 at 12:57:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/1/2004 11:54:36 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
Take some Vaseline and some eye wash

What is the Vaseline for? I am sure the eye wash is for tear gas?!!! lol! I really haven’t the faintest idea.
Callie

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Protesters
Date: September 1, 2004 at 12:53:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peaceful protest is a subjective term. What I perceive as peaceful probably isn’t the same as what most cops think is peaceful. As long as no one is bleeding, and everyone can get where they need to go, things are peaceful. I don’t think the policimoes see it that way. They don’t want any one disagreeing with any policies and they are very nervous right now. Probably for good reason. I wouldn’t want to be in a cops shoes right now. But we got a right to say what we want to say. Marc, and Dana and anybody else with the balls to speak up right now are to be commended. You guy rock, just be careful when you do it. Take some Vaseline and some eye wash.    Randy

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 1, 2004 at 11:35:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/1/2004 8:57:18 AM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
Some news, we lost two of our Ibo comrads last night in the 1000 arrests of peaceful protesters.

The pictures I seen on TV were not peaceful protesters! Maybe the arrests of the peaceful people were withheld from television.
I always thought peaceful protesting was within our constitutional rights as Americans!
I know the police in New York are stressed this week though! I was surprised when I heard the Republican Convention was at Madison Square Gardens.
Poor New York gets all the high profile events.
MTV did take it’s video award show to Miami this year though! lol! Yes, I embarrassingly admit I watched the VMA’s on Sunday!! In fact, I looked forward to it all day! LMAO!
Callie

From: CrookedEye420@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: September 1, 2004 at 11:19:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara is so right about the way it makes you feel afterwards.  It makes you want to be healthy and it helps show you how.  The trip is interesting but not overwhelming or scary.  Sara is a great person and I would suggest her place if you are going to try th Iboga.
Shawn

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 1, 2004 at 10:55:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/1/04 8:57:10 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

Not too sure if its working anymore but something eventually will or it
will go away but pain in the back or not life is so much better today.
Do you remember what a loon I was on this list 6 weeks ago?
Some news, we lost two of our Ibo comrads last night in the 1000 arrests
of peaceful protesters.
And yes, Ms. Laurie was one of them. ;o(  I keep trying to picture Laurie
in the system and its not a pretty site but hey, its a once in a life time
only in NY expereince.
Poor Laurie.

Can you tell us more about the arrests and where they occurred?  I don’t know
Laurie but, poor Laurie.  May the bwiti look after and inspire her.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 1, 2004 at 9:55:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not too sure if its working anymore but something eventually will or it will go away but pain in the back or not life is so much better today. Do you remember what a loon I was on this list 6 weeks ago?
Some news, we lost two of our Ibo comrads last night in the 1000 arrests of peaceful protesters.
And yes, Ms. Laurie was one of them. ;o(  I keep trying to picture Laurie in the system and its not a pretty site but hey, its a once in a life time only in NY expereince.
Poor Laurie.
UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hey Marc,

Congrats on finding that celebex and knowing that there other ways to relieve pain that a bag a dope, no matter what the voices in our head say.

Well, I hear voices anyway.  Some are nice a gentle, healing.  Then there are the WHEN ARE YOU GONNA SCORE SOME GODDAMN CRACK voices.  I know they are all my voices though, so I think I will be OK.

Crazy in Jersey,
Sean

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Date: September 1, 2004 at 4:51:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Jasen,

Your motivation and insight is clear, I’m sure you found ibo. For a good
reason.

All the best,

Sara

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: September 1, 2004 at 4:43:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, you say it, I found Calvinism quit boring.
You are most welcome.

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 1 september 2004 5:39
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

You’re another person here who has gotten more weird as years have
passed 🙂 I love this place, Sara I want to do ibogaine with you! 🙂 🙂
🙂

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

God is a mystery of mastery.

kiss a koala of me,they look so funny.

sara

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Groovy yippie pad.
Date: September 1, 2004 at 4:19:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

Congrats on acquiring 9 Bleeker St! The story has a happy ending. Wow! A museum? A shrine to that powerful movement of youth? Perhaps “The Ibogaine Story: The Ride.”

Now that you have it as your very own to promote the advancement of yourself, ibogaine and yippies, why not take the wonderful and amazing journey of ibogaine? We are there for you buddy! It’s a great cyst remover as you well know…

I’m bursting with curiosity about Dana on ibo.

You are about to take it, right? Any day now, right? Let us know and we will all light a candle.

The Bwiti would dig meeting you.

Let us know when!

Kind regards,
Steve

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Dear Friends,
Date: September 1, 2004 at 3:54:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DR ERVIN LASZLO will be the keynote speaker at THE GREAT RETHINKING OXFORD.  Addressing the gathering at the Oxford Union on Friday 10 September at 1:30 PM, Dr Laszlo will begin a weekend of rethinking and reshaping our collective future with some of today’s leading proponents of material and spiritual planetary change.  The internationally recognized teachers and advocates joining Dr Laszlo include Dr Helen Caldicott, Dr Vandana Shiva, Satish Kumar, Dr Rupert Sheldrake, Peter Russell, Dr William Bloom, Danah Zohar, Thom Hartmann, Lynne McTaggart, Dr Alberto Villoldo, Christopher Hansard, and the renowned musical project Banco De Gaia.
http://greatmystery.org/ox04.html

Dr Ervin Laszlo is an advocate for deep planetary change including our planetary ethics.  As founder of The Club of Budapest, as a widely read author and sought after speaker, Dr Laszlo is and example of the leadership the world needs in order to move through this unprecedented and tumultuous time.  In addition to numerous honors, he is a current nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize.  His conference topic is Science and the Akashic Field: An Integral Theory of Everything which is also the title of his newly published book.

“The Club of Budapest is an informal association of creative people in diverse fields of art, literature, and the spiritual domains of culture.
It is dedicated to the proposition that only by changing ourselves we can change the world – and that to change ourselves we need the kind of insight and perception that art, literature, and the domains of the spirit can best provide. The members of The Club of Budapest use their artistic creativity and spiritual insight to enhance awareness of global problems and human opportunities. They communicate their insights in word and image, in sound and motion, and in the myriad new media and technologies.
They are recognized world leaders in their fields of literary, artistic, or spiritual activity; their names are assurance of insight, and their membership in the club a testimony of their dedication to our common future.”
–Ervin Laszlo

A few of the honored members of The Club of Budapest are Thomas Berry, Jane Goodall, Peter Gabriel, Makhail Gorbachev, Arthur C. Clarke, Desmond Tutu, The XIVth Dalai Lama, Oscar Arias, Liv Ullmann, Eli Weisel, and Mary Robinson.  For a complete list please visit http://www.club-of-budapest.com/HonoraryMembers/honorary-members.htm.

THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS BY DR LASZLO COME FROM A CELEBRATION HONORING CLUB MEMBER PAULO COELHO:

“We all know that we have now entered a critical phase in the history of humankind.  The future of the human species is at stake.  The world as we know it today is not sustainable.  We either find a way to make it sustainable, or we face the specter of breakdown, and ultimately of extinction.

“At bottom, global unsustainability is due to the way we relate to each other, and to nature.  We polarize society into haves and have-nots, and we exploit and indeed overexploit nature.  If we would continue unchanged, we would press ever more millions to the very edge of physical survival, and provoke frustration, hate and violence in the process.  If we would continue unchanged, we would destroy the great tropical rainforests, bring extinction to thousands and thousands of species, change the climate and pollute the oceans, the lands, and the atmosphere.  Clearly, we cannot continue unchanged.  But what must we do to change?

“The Club of Budapest maintains that the change we need is rooted in culture.  We do not mean “high” culture, although that, too, is involved – we mean the thinking, the feeling, the values, and the aspirations of people.  The threat to human survival is of cultural origin.  The obsolescence of the culture we have inherited from the mainstream of the 20th century is its cause, and the revitalization of the culture of the 21st century is the solution.

“The culture of a people is reflected in, and indeed governed by, the consciousness that dominates the mind of a people.  The dominant consciousness today sees the world as made up of self-centered, mutually isolated people and groups, pursuing their own narrow objectives.  But the consciousness we need is the consciousness that, to quote William James, we are like islands in the sea: separate in the surface, but united in the deep.  We need a consciousness that sees things in context, and sees that they are part of the same reality.  The consciousness we need is planetary consciousness.

“On the personal level planetary consciousness is the consciousness that culturally intolerant and ecologically destructive behavior is undesirable and unacceptable.  In regard to society it is the consciousness that other people, whether they live next door or in distant parts of the world, are an integral part of the human family and of the wider community of life on Earth.  And in regard to nature it is the consciousness that we cannot do anything to the biosphere without also doing it to ourselves.  Planetary consciousness is a holistic consciousness, with an integrated vision of people, society, life, and universe.

“Planetary consciousness is not a mere theoretical abstraction: it is already evolving at the creative edge of society.  The greatest benefactors of humanity are those who catalyze a new consciousness among people North and South, East and West.”

The following is an abstract for Dr Laszlo’s keynote address at The Great Rethinking Oxford, as well as a synopsis of his new book.

SCIENCE AND THE AKASHIC FIELD: AN INTEGRAL THEORY OF EVERYTHING

In the first decade of the 21st century a cosmic vision dawns: a vision that embraces all things in the universe.  A theory that is truly an integral theory of everything (I-TOE) is within our reach.  Using everyday language and clear reasoning, Laszlo’s presentation conveys the essential elements of this vision.  The emerging I-TOE lends credence to what we have always felt and had intuitively known about the oneness of all life, and all of creation.  As William James said, we are like islands in the sea, separate on the surface but connected in the deep.  In today’s fragmented and conflict-prone world a vision of our fundamental connections with each other, with the biosphere, and with the whole of the universe is timely and important as never before.

“The most brilliant, comprehensive, and intellectually satisfying integral theory of everything that I have ever read. . . . transcends the vision of Darwin, Newton, Einstein, the quantum pioneers and many other scientific giants of history.”

Deepak Chopra, M.D.,
Author, Book of Secrets and How to Know God

PROFILE OF DR LASZLO

In addition to being Founder and President of The Club of Budapest, Dr Laszlo is also Founder and Director of the General Evolution Research Group, Administrator of the Interdisciplinary University of Paris, Fellow of the World Academy of Arts and Sciences, Member of the International Academy of Philosophy of Science, Senator of the International Medici Academy, and Editor of the international periodical World Futures: The Journal of General Evolution.  Laszlo is the author or co-author of forty-five books translated into as many as twenty languages, and the editor of another twenty-nine volumes including a four-volume encyclopedia.  He has a PhD from the Sorbonne and is the recipient of four honorary PhD’s (from the United States, Canada, Finland, and Hungary).  He received the Peace Prize of Japan, the Goi Award in 2002, and is formally nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for 2004.  Laszlo lectures worldwide, and in the winter of 2003/2004 held a visiting Professorship at the University of Stuttgart in Germany.

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EVENTS AND PROGRAMS NOW AVAILABLE FROM AXIOM/GREATMYSTERY.ORG

http://greatmystery.org/ox04.html
— The Great Rethinking Oxford UK 10-12 September

http://greatmystery.org/ox04pilgrimage.html
— UK Sacred Sites Shamanic Pilgrimage 13-14 September

http://greatmystery.org/bancodegaia.html
— Banco De Gaia / Toby Marks Concert Celebration of Global Rights with commentary by Fraser Clark 10 September

http://greatmystery.org/davidcarson.html
— David Carson Medicine Card Sedona Workshop 14 October

http://greatmystery.org/sedona04.html
— The Great Rethinking: The Prophets Conference Sedona 15-17 October

http://greatmystery.org/sedona04.html
— Gathering of the Tribes (GoTT) Sedona Party 15 October

http://greatmystery.org/sedona04cocreation.html
— The Sedona Day of Cocreation 18 October: Gregg Braden, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Hank Wesselman

http://greatmystery.org/sw05.html
— The Prophets Conference Great American Southwest Sacred Pilgrimage of Healing and Renewal May 6-13, 2005

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Thank you all for supporting this work by forwarding it to your friends.

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CONTACT

<mailto:prophets@greatmystery.org>
Tel: 888.777.5981 (USA) — (44) 01367 250 370 (UK) Greatmystery.org, P. O. Box 567, Kula, Maui, Hawaii 96790 USA Greatmystery.org UK, c/o StarDrum, PO Box 32, Lechlade GL7 3ZR UK

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: 🙂
Date: September 1, 2004 at 1:31:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara,
***Wow,….thankyou for the explanation,I feel much better about the
treatment.
I understand I have been asking a lot of people a lot of questions and
sometimes repeat my
questions.
This is a very big deal for me as I am sure it is also for others.
I have been stuck since the age of 15.When I say 15 this is probably an
under exaggeration.

I first used heroin at the age of 14 and by the time I was 15 was heavily
into it.

Heroin told me that everything was ok,she filled all my empty spaces,
warmed me and embraced me in a way that I can only explain as Whole,
it totally loved me and anesthetised me from life.

She was always with me,nurturing,loving and giving me a sense of security.

I first experienced the
Meth program at 15.The doctor had to get special approval.
At age 15, I really thought that I knew all there was to know about being an
adult,..and
how could I be any more mature than I am now(says the 15 year old).I am now
38, and one thing I know
is that I know nothing.

Over the years I have tried and tried and tried,however to no avail.
I had amost given up, when with praying,  and begging for guidance,and
giving thanks in advance
for the guidance I needed,I finally came accross this fabulous site and
Howard(Wow Howard,I cannot say in words the enormity
of what you have started,the hope that Ibogaine gives..Wow)

I honestly believe that it is my brother who passed over 2 years ago that
has been able to get through to me
and guide me here.

I choose to be free of my addiction,yes Preston,..you are right I should not
feel shame,
however,I feel it nevertheless,the shame is sometimes unbearable.I realise
this is also
one of my problems.

I now see the light at the end of the tunnel,and hey,…f..k,it’s so bright
and beautiful,it’s calling
us…
With smiles Jasen(Aus) Next
time I see a koala I will kiss it for you.  🙂
.
God is a mystery of mastery.

kiss a koala of me,they look so funny.

sara

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and USA
Date: September 1, 2004 at 12:44:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“the word addict is a tricky one isn’t it”

I much more perfer the term drug enthusiast.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 1, 2004 at 12:40:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Want crack, snort some ibogaine instead.”

How’s about DMT? Works well as a crack substitution. If it were only not so darn expensive….

_________________________________________________________________
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