Ibogaine List Archives - 2004-09

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana Beal Trippin’ in tha Purple Haze at St. Kitts
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:59:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sep 30, 2004, at 6:35 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Dana … Part of the reason “Patrick is so frantically preparing” is due to certain people [Dana] whom I speak with, on average, oh, say, twice a day [Dana], that have been aware of Every Single Aspect of the Ibogaine Panel at the HRC Conference [Dana], since its very inception; [Dana] who were asked, not once, twice, five, ten, nay … all these would be understatements, let’s just be honest and say they were involved since the Very Beginning [Dana] and asked AT LEAST 25 times, [Dana] over a 3 month span of time, regarding their needs, [Dana] and the possible whereabouts of Various Other People [Dana].

This same person [Dana] spent roughly 350 phone calls discussing their BUILDING [Dana], instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the Ibogaine Panel [Dana]. Who submitted their talk, title, position on the panel, and all related information [Dana], piece by piece, [Dana] and assured me everything was all-good [Dana].

And then … [Dana] true to form, this person [Dana] has a BursT of INSPIRATION and ACTIVITY, two weeks after the final, extended, THIS IS *really* the Very Last Final Deadline [Dana] — it’s all gone to the printers and we’re DONE NOW — and need to have Everything Rearranged Completely, [Dana] or The World Will End [Dana].

Ahum. We’ll just skip right past all that and not name any names [Dana].

Yeah, I’m kinda busy n’ shit. <Shrug>

On Sep 30, 2004, at 11:32 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from
chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about
it as anyone else on this list. >>

Dear Dana,

Just remember it is long acting. It comes on in three phases. And, it
actually does eventually cease its activity. There is no reason not to follow
shamanic tradition and dose escalate up to educate yourself in a safe manner. On
the other hand there is the, “here take this. Bamm!!! type of dosing. You are
certainly in touch with just about everyone in the scene so you have the
opportunity to be well advised. Give yourself plenty of recovery time. Will you
be going to St Kitts?

Howard

YES! YeS!!! FUCK YES!

That’s it mahn! Howard, you’re a genius! Dana, just get a fourth — and/or 5th — mortgage on your BUILDING (everyone has ’em these days), and SIGN UP! We shall have the Dana Beal(R) Round!

SCIENCE will be Completely Rearranged!

It will spawn a BURST of activity! The Dana Beal Monographs(R) will be submitted to JOURNALS! Ibogaine will never be the same again.

“Subject appears to be Completely Fucking Crazy prior to administration of ibogaine HCl.”

… <12 hours later> …

“Subject is still Completely Fucking Crazy. There has been no perceptible change whatsoever.”

p.s., If’n you givz me fiddy dollah, we can skip the ibogaine, hang out in the West Indies, and I’ll lie and just tell everyone you FINALLY DID THE GODDAMN IBOGAINE.

Thank you.

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Gay City News Aricle
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:45:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

<< Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished. >>

So who is writing the article?

I also want to suggest that you may consider Ibogaine as a treatment for
methamphetamine in the gay community as your topic for discussion during the
ibogaine roundtable. I think it would certainly pull in a significant audience.

Let me know what you think.

Howard

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:42:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jasen,

Thanks for all the candles.:) Monday afternoon is the start of journey.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:38:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla’s Complaint>That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low
dose, from chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–<

Dana, Dana, Dana, you have had a piece of rootbark in your mouth, no? That
is not the same thing at all as eating it, or “doing it” rather. As I noted
before, yesterday I think, I honestly and greatly appreciate your efforts to
promote ibogaine and hope that you continue to do so. But I think it’s a bit
disingenuous for you to claim you’ve “done it,” when from what you’ve told
me, you haven’t “done it,” you’ve “tasted” it.
And, you’re waiting for some actual HCL to “do it again”? I’m sure
someone could probably help you with that whenever you ask.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” (Out Oct.
2004)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from chewed
rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m waiting to get
some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be able to control the dose
regimin, since I know at least as much about it as anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The point
is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his paper. And Greg
just told me they might print an article on ibogaine, one not done by
Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum,
such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that
Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more fluid,
all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the
years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors and
reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better to leave
them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who, willfully
ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d already know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees — that
Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving across a
broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a miracle cure,
because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND stimulants). HE said
that the one organized group that could get Ibogaine through the
bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they did with the AIDS drugs)
shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option. Basically, he doesn’t want to
tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite the irony of Peter Staley voting to
stop development of ibogaine in 1994, and then proceeding to get strung out
on crystal and contracting new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to expect
to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is complicated
by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was trying to blackmail
Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated by Ardolino and a few other
people, but it was enough to make a big swath of people here skeptical. This
isn’t impossible to change, but it takes effort, both by providers and by
activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the way they
are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list gotten
Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in 1989, I
realized that it might not help my case for critics to be able to say (a la
Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his favorite drug.” But
times have changed, and now I have a genuine medical need to do it. (A gram
and a half of indra got rid of my daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a
prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I think that will work better for this
purpose. I just don’t think the splitting of skull is needful. Already had
my religious experience.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:32:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/04 5:35:49 PM, dana@cures-not-wars.org writes:

Dear Dana,

Howard

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:23:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,

Even though Dana sent this out to the whole list for their reading pleasure, you will notice that it was addressed to me and Preston. I live in the NYC area and am very concerned by the growing crystal problem in the gay community. And unfortunately too often self proclaimed gay leaders make wrongheaded statements without knowing the facts.

Remember the letter is a reprint of a letter to the Gay City News. Dana is certainly in no way alone on this issue. In fact I think it is absolutely remarkable that a straight ally would stick his neck out like Dana does for the gay community. He really gives a shit. And given the rising HIV rate among young gay men, we really cannot afford to let self proclaimed experts ruin the lives of young gay men with misinformation about potential addiction treatment, in this case ibogaine.

I think that’s the point.:)

All the best,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:16:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Sure can feel that virtual love and handholding. Will hold on to that on my journey next week.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:08:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Randy,

Have a beautiful journey and please post as soon as you are able afterwards. You have pulled me up more times than I count, and I am so damn pleased that your time has come.

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:13:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment

Callie, I have had those same thoughts in my head about giving up something that sucks but seems to be working at least a little bit. I’ve been on and off . I plan on not looking at the ‘puter till after I have done this so

light a candle Friday night and have a good weekend. I’ll see yall after the walls come down. Randy PS Callie, somehow

I know its coming for you too, soon. You can do it. Be ready.

*Hey Randy,

*Today in Australia it is Friday 12pm,I lit a candle for you,it is on my desk as I type.

*I am in a similar situation to you, and Callie,many years,…to many(to many for me that is).

*Sean,you kindly offered to light a candle for me when I do my treatment, would like to do the same for you,Callie
*and anyone else that is about to be treated,let me know what day Sean and candles will be lit.

*I enjoyed this list very much today,thankyou.I am always thankful for the list however some days I enjoy it more than others.

The candle is lit,and it’s light is beautiful. Smiles Jasen

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:46:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,
Wow,great to see a photo and I love the yin/yang dragon.
It is nice to see pictures of people on the list so you can picture who is
posting.
Yes, that is a great photo of V,with respect,V is a very attractive looking
woman,and the way you have spoken about her heart in the past posts,it
sounds like you are a very fortunate man.Good on ya.
Smiles Jasen
01, 2004 12:27 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] photos

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our families, not
including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go around). Two are of my
newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the Influence, but only the title
is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:16:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla to correct you on one part of your message, I’ve lost the
original thread through your’s, Julie’s and other’s quotes but Dana
wrote a inflammatory and reactionary message to this list.

The reasonable and very good I thought, letter that went to the
newspaper was not written by Dana.

Dana then mentioned that Sean and Preston would be doing outreach to
the gay community which also sounds reasonable.

Ann Ardolino has stopped posting how howard and bob sisko ripped her
off and gave her ibogaine in a hotel in nyc. I don’t think she’s ever
managed to sign onto the ibogaine list maybe because patrick lost her
subscription 😉 she didn’t have any trouble signing up to drugwar on
Mindvox.

The last part of your message doesn’t make any sense, you made it sound
like you used ibogaine to beat your meth problem in that NY Post
article Dana.

Everybody knows your favorite drug is pot not ibogaine, I don’t think
there is any confusion 🙂

How’s your daughter’s cyst?

.:vector:.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from

chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m
waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be
able
to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about it
as
anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The
point is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his
paper. And Greg just told me they might print an article on ibogaine,

one not done by Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV
forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New
Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more

fluid, all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the
years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors
and
reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better
to
leave them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who,
willfully ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d
already
know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees —

that Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving

across a broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a
miracle cure, because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND
stimulants). HE said that the one organized group that could get
Ibogaine through the bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they
did
with the AIDS drugs) shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option.
Basically, he doesn’t want to tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite
the irony of Peter Staley voting to stop development of ibogaine in
1994, and then proceeding to get strung out on crystal and
contracting
new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to

expect to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is

complicated by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was
trying to blackmail Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated
by
Ardolino and a few other people, but it was enough to make a big
swath
of people here skeptical. This isn’t impossible to change, but it
takes
effort, both by providers and by activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the
way
they are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list
gotten Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in
1989, I realized that it might not help my case for critics to be
able
to say (a la Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his
favorite drug.” But times have changed, and now I have a genuine
medical need to do it. (A gram and a half of indra got rid of my
daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I
think that will work better for this purpose. I just don’t think the
splitting of skull is needful. Already had my religious experience.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: Vioxx Recalled
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:00:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2371712&nav=23KuRVCO

If you use Vioxx to help ease the pain of arthritis, you better start shopping around for new drug. Merck, the maker of Vioxx is voluntarily pulling the popular drug off the shelves because new research finds an increased risk of heart attack and stroke…..

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Carla’s Complaint
Date: September 30, 2004 at 6:35:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world

That’s actually wrong on two counts. I have done it — low dose, from chewed rootbark, but it had definite psychoactive effect–and I’m waiting to get some actually HCl to do it again. I just want to be able to control the dose regimin, since I know at least as much about it as anyone else on this list.

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter.

I didn’t write the letter that’s being published. Greg Lake did. The point is that it’s being printed. Schindler’s letting it into his paper. And Greg just told me they might print an article on ibogaine, one not done by Osborne.

This is going to help what?

Well, a lot of folks are not so sure about the direction of the HIV forum, such as Alan Clear, the man putting on the conference in New Orleans that Patrick is so frantically preparing for.

Who is going to listen to this.

I wouldn’t have brought it up now if the situation hadn’t become more fluid, all of a sudden. Quite a lot of people have listened over the years.–“politicians and addicts and treatmentproviders and authors and reporters and just about anyone else breathing.” Would it be better to leave them in utter ignorance, because of the occasional person who, willfully ignorant, says that such a thing can’t be, or they’d already know about it?

Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

No. HE characterized what everyone on this list pretty much agrees — that Ibogaine interrupts physical addiction and psychological craving across a broad spectrum of abused substances– as claiming it is “a miracle cure, because nothing does that” (i.e, works for opiates AND stimulants). HE said that the one organized group that could get Ibogaine through the bureaucratic thicket (because that’s what they did with the AIDS drugs) shouldn’t even discuss it as a serious option. Basically, he doesn’t want to tarnish the ACT UP legend, or highlite the irony of Peter Staley voting to stop development of ibogaine in 1994, and then proceeding to get strung out on crystal and contracting new strains of HIV.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?
Carla B

Look, if we want to get Ibogaine FDA approved, we’re going to have to expect to wade through come controversy. The situation in New York is complicated by the legacy of Linda Twigg, who with Ann Ardolino, was trying to blackmail Howard Lotsof. All this negativity was generated by Ardolino and a few other people, but it was enough to make a big swath of people here skeptical. This isn’t impossible to change, but it takes effort, both by providers and by activists.

The problem with being above the fray is that you leave things the way they are when they COULD be changed. Why hasn’t anybody on this list gotten Heroin Helper to change that bullshit inspired by Ardolino?

Gay City News wants a 250 word article is what it’s accomplished.

Dana/cnw

P.S.: When squatters accused me of “owning the ibogaine patent” in 1989, I realized that it might not help my case for critics to be able to say (a la Tim Leary) that “he just wants to be able to do his favorite drug.” But times have changed, and now I have a genuine medical need to do it. (A gram and a half of indra got rid of my daughter’s cyst.) I want to try a prolonged, low-dose therapy, and I think that will work better for this purpose. I just don’t think the splitting of skull is needful. Already had my religious experience.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 5:19:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to clarify: my comments were in NO way a dig at Dana, but rather the Schindler’s List dude…

Sorry for any misunderstanding,

Julie

jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
>Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
>KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
>such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
>LIKE AN SSRI.

Well, they are both serotonin agonists in a general sense, but that’s
where the similarity ends…

Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com – Register online to vote today!

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: To Doc Tom -Who Is I?
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:59:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie:

Hello! I’m sorry that my post has caused you distress and I will answer
you as simply as I can. You are concerned that you are too limited in your
understanding of cause and effect to benefit from Ibogaine.
All I can offer is my opinion here, do ask others, and intellect is what
we have to work with, via these mousy words and keyboards. I’m glad we
have every bit of it we do have.

Cause and effect is a recurrent theme in many of the Ibogaine images and
visions I experienced. This was perhaps because this plant spirit felt I
needed to figure it out better for me. Self reflection and understanding
of your own behavior, and others in a non-judgemental and compassionate
light would be what I found from my times with Ibogaine. If you are
considering the use of the Eye to overcome or understand your present
behaviors, addictions, and habits, I congratulate you on directing toward
the best natural medical way to do that of which I am aware. You shouldn’t
worry about it or dread it.

As for my images and phrases, did you follow Patrick’s definition of
Mindvox recently? I loved his eclectic cross connected rant that described
so much of where he has been and what he has learned. Puzzle through that
with a dictionary and great ideas and connections will open to you.

My experience with ibo was written and is posted on the fine
“Ibeginagain.org” web site at the following page:

http://www.ibeginagain.org/experiences/my_space_shuttle.shtml

That same site, up one level, has a list of a couple dozen other
testimonials that will present this experience from many viewpoints other
than my own. I ask that you read those and examine the situation from
other styles of speech and perception than merely mine. That site and
Howard’s are both very extensive selections of all sorts of information
about the Eye. It is a blessing to have their work so available and well
presented.

OK, cosmic chicken farm? Perhaps in your nursing experience the emotions
of despair and depression are observed within patterns of substance use
and abuse, or the range of normal human feelings. Human history, for some
who have studied it, has been felt to be engineered and designed for the
many to enrich and empower the few. I have been a seeker and student of my
world for 3 and a half decades. The analogy between modern life and that
in a well run chicken farm, has become too clear to me, and I presumed
that many other list members could catch the analogy. No offense, not
everyone on a chicken farm is a chicken, just most of the production. When
I notice how the Bush administration has marched the world to Iraq and
donates the youth of America to a murderous criminal occupation to grab
oil, the chicks being shoveled down the ramps in a chicken farm just hits
me with the analogy. I doubt if the chickens feel involved in a democracy
either.

Now Callie, none of this is about Ibogaine, per se. Inform yourself and
make the moves that will be best for you. Don’t let my obscure words and
comments influence you away from the best decisions and actions you need
to take. I have followed your posts for a couple months and you are
incredibly supportive and kind toward everyone with any problem. A true
caregiver.

What I was trying to provoke as a conversation among us was some
understanding of the effects, the feelings, and the experience of what
Ibogaine is. I called it the Undrug, which confused and aggravated some
readers. With a broad enough definition of drug, that is indeed nonsense.
Even our thought is defined with biochemistry and mineral/nutrient
interactions, maybe even higher emotions like love and sympathy are mere
tidepools of serotonin, dopamine, and serine in little sacred nerve plexi
within our brains. I surely don’t know.

You think I’m too intellectual? I wouldn’t push us into the PDR or some
medical school physiology here, although all your concerns about Methadone
and Ibogaine have related scientific information there. I noticed how the
AIDS -hype guy, Vigilius, seemed to gag everyone with that. I enjoyed his
links and found them valuable, but it was way too dense and off point for
this list. I think only Sara caught that a complete parallel could be made
between the social engineering of a pseudo disease and the control agenda
behind the wicked war on Drug(user)s.

Anyway, thanks for your questions. If you don’t get my language, like my
symbols or prefer my movies, that’s just fine with me, I do. It’s a really
big group of very smart and interesting people on this list, and I’m glad
you are here to add to the diversity and beauty of opinions. I’ll post
more about who I am and wherefore I cometh elsewhere than this post. Good
luck in your important decisions and actions, whatever they may be.

Dr. Tom

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:31:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

Well, they are both serotonin agonists in a general sense, but that’s
where the similarity ends…

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Those who don’t even want to look at it…
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:28:17 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

That was based on his cursory examination of the OASAS website and a few other sources. He also seemed really angry that we were saying it had multiple mechanisms of action. And his entire argument was based on authority– “GMHC had a commission that examined this. and they say there’s no known medication, approved or experimental, that can interrupt crystal meth dependency.” Ergo, there CAN BE no such thing as ibogaine. Which I suspect would be effective for at least one out of three speedfreaks–not to mention the potential for low-dose substitution therapy, which has enjoyed some success with crack, I believe.

He was really pretty hostile. I’m not certain he would even like to see gay addicts or HIV positive people be told about Ibogaine at all. I suggest an email campaign aimed at GAY CITY NEWS, to educate Schindler and Osborne as to their responsibility for blocking access to the treatment scene that does exist for their community. Osborne’s address is: duncanto@aol.com

Dana/cnw

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:20:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for sharing Preston! Love the tatoo!
V has gorgeous green eyes!
You spoke of Matrix in your other post. I just really did not like the movie. I appreciate you trying to explain it. I understood it but did not like it. Just not my kind of picture show!
Toodles, Callie

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] MAPS Dance at Alex Grey’s loft Friday Nite; SSDP regional Conf. Sat @ Columbia
Date: September 30, 2004 at 4:00:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Three Big Events this Weekend!

Friday, Oct 1, 10 PM: Benefit Dance for Ric Doblin’s
Multi-disciplinary Association for Paychedelic Studies (MAPS) at Alex
Gray’s Loft, 540 W. 27th St (4th Floor).

Saturday, Oct 2, 11 AM to 5 PM: “LOCKED UP!” –Regional Students for
a Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP) Conference, a series of panels and
workshops on Dropping the Rock featuring Ibogaine Friend Assemblyman
Jeff Aubrey at Lerner Hall, B’way & 115th, the Satow Room on the 5th
Floor.

Sunday, Oct. 3, 6 PM: Cures not Wars Meeting @ 9 Bleecker St.
followed by a Road Trip to Washington, D.C. to do an Ibogaine info
zap at Kerry H.Q. at MacPherson Square from 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM
Monday Oct. 4 and the Americans for Safe Access (ASA) medical
marijuana protests Tuesday Oct 5th. Local housing available. Call
212-677-4899 for details.

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] LONG TRIP FOR PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS
Date: September 30, 2004 at 3:31:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LONG TRIP FOR PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS
By Kristen Philipkoski
Wired
September 27, 2004

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of
persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help
people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute <http://www.heffter.org/>, the
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
<http://www.maps.org/>
and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug Administration to
approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics. The movement
seems
to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the FDA and the Drug
Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to three clinical
trials
testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and several more are on
deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they
were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’
hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it,
and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder
of the Heffter Research Institute, a scientific organization that
organizes
and funds trials involving psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than
the one
medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the
National Institute on Drug Abuse <http://www.nida.nih.gov/> and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow
the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the
approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president
of
MAPS. The roadblock with marijuana has centered on supply. A
government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana the
government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is
decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public
policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government — led to the
launch of
the first FDA-approved clinical trial testing MDMA as a therapy (in
this
case for post-traumatic stress disorder) since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in
almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital,
presented his
proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists
and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are
exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner
who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches, which are rare but
brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had
never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and
skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would
have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain;
the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing
on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually break a
cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement.
He now runs clusterbusters.com <http://www.clusterbusters.com>, where
he
communicates with about 200 other cluster-headache victims who have
tried
psilocybin to relieve their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in
the
form of questionnaires, which Halpern can present to Harvard’s
institutional
review board.

Studies starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results
treating
cluster and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold
decide to
try a psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders
including depression, alcoholism and addiction to other drugs like
heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA on his
patients in the early ’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first
synthesized by Merck in 1912) along with Alexander Shulgin, who became
a
cult figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife,
Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest
body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands
for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone
of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug,
and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1 drug, the highest level of illegal
drug
in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing ecstasy,
including
doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer stopped prescribing
it
for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of
psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had
ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because
it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year
later,
the researchers retracted the study because they discovered they had
accidentally used methamphetamine instead of ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and
DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA
Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead to
perform a
study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients. He got
permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy
volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research
in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When
after
several years neither the FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed
his
proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it
had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work
with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients
out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the
study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which
began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these
compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters
need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can
be
used safely and effectively.”

————
Thanks
NHNE News List

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 2:41:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 11:09:38 PM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to
come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me
to
benefit. >>

Dear Callie,

I have not yet met anyone who is too limited in insight of cause and effect
to benefit from ibogaine. As a Practical Nurse you have to undestand cause and
effect. As a drug user you have to understand cause and effect. The insight
you need is yours, not someone else’s.

Howard

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:51:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Love your tats Preston 🙂 You got patrick’s purple
dragon tattooed on yourself 🙂 I think its working
🙂 🙂 🙂

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken
last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls
drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our
families, not including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go
around). Two are of my newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original
picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the
Influence, but only the title is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a
great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:50:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That would be because Dana has never done ibogaine and
will never do ibogaine in spite of pushing it on
everybody else in the world 😉

Dana, another inflammatory and obnoxious letter. This
is going to help what? Who is going to listen to this.
Why do you always have this list of people you need to
attack, then say something completely wrong about
ibogaine a ‘miracle cure’ that you have never done and
will never do.

How does this help anything? I’m sorry I don’t want to
start again but this is the same thing you always do.
Why what is this going to accomplish Dana?

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and
that all it is is
an SSRI like wellbutrin.

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT
ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:03:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,
I’m so happy that you’re feeling more positive! 🙂 It really helps to keep busy. I’m glad you had a good cry and let it all out. See how many people luv you? And it is a kind of love. We’re here to hold your hand-can you feel it?
LOL Hannah 🙂

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)

Hi list,

Again thanks to each and every one of you for being there for me a couple of days ago. The feeling of support from all over the US and the world is really almost overwhelming. Today I thought, “all these people are pulling for me, it sure is time that I started pulling for me.” Then I cried. But a good cry.

I am getting a full retreatment next week, and then will work much more intensively on aftercare than last time. One part of my aftercare I know will help is educating the gay community on ibogaine. (thanks Dana.:)

I have said it before, this group fucking rocks!

Sean

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:59:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] wasdoin really shitty (feeling better now)

Hi list,

I have said it before, this group fucking rocks!

Sean

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List- what malarky
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:24:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and
that all it is is
an SSRI like wellbutrin.

Um, anyone who had actually DONE ibogaine, and who
KNEW what they were talking about, would never spout
such garbage. Ibogaine is not, I repeat, NOT ANYTHING
LIKE AN SSRI.

This is what happens when we have the ignorant and
misinformed leading the ‘blind’ and ‘deaf’…

grrr,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:19:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

I love your tattoo(s)…Oh, and by the way, V is very
cute!

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Matrix
Date: September 30, 2004 at 11:17:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree, Preston- I loved the first Matrix movie. The
next two, in my humble opinion, were sub-rate garbage.
Too Hollywood.

I loved the whole ‘Know Thyself’ theme too…The movie
blew my mind on many levels, in fact…’Residual
Self-Image’; ‘there is no spoon’…Oh my god, it was
loaded with gems…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Schindler’s List
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:29:38 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: greglake@eden.rutgers.edu
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Atten: Sean, Preston:

Gay City News has agreed to print the following letter. It’s significance is that the publisher, Paul Schindler, is very involved with the forums, having moderated the one that Alan Clear of HRC criticized for hosting an appearance by the DEA. Schindler’s lead writer, Duncan Osborn (a member of ACT UP when it voted 23 to 21 to discontinue NIDA clinical trials of Ibogaine) has taken the position that we’re arguing that Ibo is a “miracle cure” and that all it is is an SSRI like wellbutrin. (He was also rude on the phone to Dr. Ken Alper.)

The forum organizers, Dan Carlson and Bruce Kellerman, take the position that they’re not about medications development, which was good enough for AIDS, but not for addicts. Their response to crystal meth: turn in a friend to the DEA, so they can turn in their friends. It’s the only way they can “get help.”

Letter to the Gay City News:

As much as I appreciate Duncan Osborne’s reporting, your continuing
series on Dan Kellerhouse and Dan Carlson seems to be extremely biased
in favor of these two non-credentialed “experts”. As an AIDS activist
and long-time survivor, I question why you feature these two
profiteers while ignoring those of us who have worked in the trenches
here in NYC. In the four years that I have been observing and
participating in the now-defunct Mayor’s Office of AIDS Policy and
Coordination (MOAPC) I have never seen these two individuals at any of
the Alcohol and Other Drugs workgroup, the Social Services workgroup
or the Health workgroup – yet they are able to mislead Harvey
Fierstein and Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS into working with
them. They have no 501c-3 status or medical training that I know of.
Why the unending coverage? Just wondering.
—
–Sincerely,
********************************
Greg Lake
********************************
cc: file

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] photos
Date: September 30, 2004 at 10:27:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’ve attached 3 new photos to this email, taken last week at friends’
while over shooting pool and watching the girls drink wine (fun for the
whole famil…well, there’re only two in each of our families, not including
the 4-legged children, so plenty of fun to go around). Two are of my newest
tattoo, (the purple dragon w/ying-yang) the original picture sent me by
Patrick right after my August experiences.
The third is of V holding up Under the Influence, but only the title is
showing, not the whole book cover. Still, it’s a great photo, I think
anyway.
;-))
Soooo, I thought I’d share.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (way ot) Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:49:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The
Matrix’.<

There are some incredibly deep moments in the Matrix Callie, just to let you
know.
When Morpheus takes Neo to the simulation Matrix, to show him how to
operate inside the program, he tells Neo that “everyone you see is a
potential enemy. These people are still asleep, still plugged into the
Matrix and will fight as hard as they can against waking. They don’t want to
know,” or something along these lines. (I’m loosely paraphrasing here.) I
was strongly reminded of our current modern situation, which I think was the
point of the writers in my humble opinion, where our system is the Matrix,
and most people simply don’t want to know, do not want to wake up to what’s
happening, the murderous wars (including the one on some Drugs and User)
based on lies, the corporate and government criminality, the Sept. 11
attacks and subsequent coverup(s), etc, etc.
That film is full of amazing stuff like this, little flashes of
brilliance all the way through it. I loved the first film. The last one I
didn’t at all like. I was bored silly by it, but was on a lot more
painkillers too, so was having trouble staying awake to watch it- which
might have meant it was really boring, or I would have been bored by
anything in that condition. I don’t know which it was because I’ve been on
lots of painkillers for a long time and am used to staying up on them, even
at the amounts I was doing, so I suspect it wasn’t that great a flick for me
anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)

Hi, I am Callie, a 45 year old Practical Nurse Methadone Maintenance patient
since 1997.
I am hoping to experience Ibogaine before the year is over.
I love reading all the colorful, descriptive personal insights into Ibogaine
but they are your personal insights as Ibogaine relates to you and probably
some insights shared with you by patients and other Ibonauts.
You write from a very intellectual point of view.(IMHO)
Personally, I have a difficult time understanding what you are saying at
all! I am sure it is just me. I do not understand all the symbolism (occult,
cryptomasonic???!!!)
And, why do you refer to life as a cosmic chicken farm? Why do you call
Ibogaine a seventh dimensional
plant ally? What is a mongo level of suffering?
You say, ” It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve got with the
Eye. The Undrug.” I am positive That I do not ‘get’ it.
One more question please. What does this mean? “The human spirit is well
into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these social trends of
chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer plagues to
criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment, and the
hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.” mean in regular, everyday language?
Dr. Tom, I am not trying to be smart ass. I bet you think I am! I just
really don’t understand what you are saying.
I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The
Matrix’.
The one thing you said that I understood, “None of us can or should make
other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them. They are here for their own lessons of cause and
effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak. Thanks for all on
this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.”

I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to
come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me
to benefit.
Sincerely,
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] consciousness and god
Date: September 30, 2004 at 9:19:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
This isn’t exactly on topic, but considering that our consciousness is
our own, and that the federal government tells us what we are and are not
“allowed” to ingest in hopes of exploring or altering or maintaining that
consciousness, I think this is on topic, somewhat. Cognitive liberty is a
very important aspect of the War on Some Drugs and Users, although I suspect
that many are loath to bring it up because it sounds somewhat “out there,”
too brainy one might say. It doesn’t pertain to taxes and money and
corruption and crime and prisons and politics really- it’s much less
tangible than all that, and scares off some folk I think. But personally I
do agree with the folks at the Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics,
Richard Glen Boire (a contributor to UTI btw, on just this topic
coincidentally enough), that our minds are our most personal, sacred
possession and we must have the right to alter our thoughts as we will, so
long as we are not hurting others. I know I’m pretty much preaching to the
choir here, so I’ll leave it at this and let you get on to reading this very
interesting article.
If you’d like to know more about the CCLE, please visit:

keeping freedom in mind

Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <CERJ@igc.org>
To: <CERJ@igc.org>
Cc: “Peter Russell” <pete@elfrock.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:43 PM
Subject: A Sleep of Prisoners

Peter Russell is a physicist and psychologist by training. His primary
interest is the exploration and development of the human mind, and their
application to the world today. He is the author of several books,
including The Global Brain Awakens, The White Hole in Time, and The Creative
Manager.

http://www.swcp.com/~hswift/swc/Winter99/russell9902.htm

Science, Consciousness
and (Dare I Say It?) God
by Peter Russell

[Web site editor: This was originally a transcription of the keynote
presentation at the Science and Consciousness conference held in
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA, in April 1999. The transcription has been
reviewed and modified slightly by the author, to the following result.]

Science and consciousness has at last come of age. My title indicates
that I believe that’s where the science of consciousness is eventually going
to lead. Paul Davies has written that science has looked out to the edges of
the universe to deep space, to deep time — to the beginning of the
universe, and to deep structure — to the basic level of the quantum. And
science is proud to proclaim that they have found no need or place for God.
The universe has worked perfectly well without it. So science has nicely
got rid of God — thank you very much. But what they forgot about was the
area of deep mind. I don’t think any great spiritual teacher ever wrote God
would be found out there at the edge of the universe. Science is now taking
us into the study of consciousness, the area of deep mind. We are only just
beginning at the moment. Eventually when we really get into deep mind — as
we have gone into deep space, deep time, and deep matter — then we will
find out what !
the gr
eat spiritual teachers have been talking about.

I think that science is going to find itself unwittingly having to explore
the very topic it has so strenuously avoided for centuries. When you look
out into deep space, deep time, and deep structure, you don’t find
consciousness either. Consciousness is a HUGE problem for science. And yet
it is the one thing that none of us can deny. We are conscious; we have
experiences. You are not biological robots, all dark inside. You all
experience being in this room. We may be having different experiences, we
may doubt our experiences, but we cannot doubt that we are experiencing
beings, and yet there is nothing in the western scientific world view that
predicts that we or any other sentient beings should actually have
experiences. Given that we do, there is no way of accounting for it.
Christian deQuincy calls it the paradox of consciousness. He says
scientists are walking around every day with the fact of their own
consciousness, staring them in the face, and with absolut!
ely no
way of explaining this.

David Chalmers, philosophy professor in Santa Cruz, calls this the HARD
problem of science. The easy problems — and they are not easy at all, and
may take another 50 years to work them out — are how the brain functions.
After doing all that, the really hard problem is how something as
unconscious as matter can give rise to something as immaterial as
consciousness. That’s the problem. He calls it the hard problem; I call it
the impossible problem — within the current world view of science. As we
explore consciousness, we are going to have to make a radical revision of
the whole world view of science, a new paradigm. But I think it is deeper
than that — a ‘super paradigm’. An example of a paradigm is the revolution
of Copernicus. Then, everyone believed the earth was still and the stars
revolved around it. It was obvious. All you had to do was look out at the
sky. And the religion and science of the day reinforced it. But there was
a problem with that, as Thoma!
s Kuhn
has written about. The planets did not move as expected, but wandered
about. This required complicated theories to explain that. And then five
hundred years ago, Copernicus said, “Look, the earth is spinning around”.
And of course we all know the church didn’t like it. In fact his book
wasn’t published until his death, as he knew the church would stomp on him.
Later, Galileo looked through his telescope and saw that Copernicus was
right. But the church put him under house arrest for the rest of his life
to keep him from talking about this heresy. Now, after Newton worked out
the details 150 years later, we believe it. And we had a new model, a new
paradigm.

I think the same thing is going to happen in science. Paradigms pertain
to a particular science, and this is even deeper. A paradigm within a
paradigm is a ‘super paradigm’, such as is the current world view of space,
time and matter. Here, the anomaly in the current view is consciousness
itself. As I said before, consciousness is absolutely undeniable, and also
completely inexplicable. So what has happened with consciousness is what
Kuhn predicted. The first thing science did was ignore it — for good
reasons, they thought. You can’t measure it, so it doesn’t fit into the
methods of science. Secondly, science has wanted to be objective, getting
rid of something as variable as mind. It has gone for objective truth,
independent of consciousness. And lastly, the universe works perfectly well
without it. So why bother?

But things have changed this century; as quantum physics seems to have
shown that consciousness does actually affect the reality we observe. There
are a lot of discoveries in medicine — the effect of attention, the effect
of consciousness of the healing of persons, even the remote healing of
persons. There is all the research on the biology of the brain. But what
science is doing at the moment is trying to fit the anomaly into the old
paradigm. Francis Crick thinks it has to do with brain chemistry. Others
think it has to do with chaos and complexity theory. Lots of interesting
theories. But how does that, whatever it is, give rise to experience? But
that’s where science is now: after ignoring it, they try to fit it into the
current model. Recently Richard Dawkins, of ‘selfish gene’ ideas, was
talking in London and said, “I cannot explain consciousness. No scientist I
know of can explain consciousness. However, I have no doubt that we
eventually will”. That’s wh!
ere sc
ience is today.

I think eventually science will be forced to adopt a completely different
‘super paradigm’; one where consciousness is as fundamental as space, time,
and matter, maybe even more fundamental. Not something that rises out of
space, time, and matter, but as fundamental. This idea about consciousness
is not a new idea, you find it in many eastern philosophies, western
philosophies, many spiritual teachings. But science isn’t interested in
spiritual teachings, as it knows it is in the realm of space, time and
matter. And it is interesting that Copernicus’ ideas were not new. The
Greeks had it much earlier, but no one was interested, as it didn’t fit with
daily experience.

What do I mean by consciousness? We use the word consciousness many
different ways in our culture, and it leads to a lot of confusion. It’s a
bit like the Eskimos have many words for snow. We have only snow or sleet.
If you go to Sanskrit, they have 10, 20 words for different subtle aspects
of the mind. Someone says human beings are the only ones with
consciousness, but what they probably mean is that we have
self-consciousness. But a dog surely has experience — it isn’t a
biological robot. If I watch a dog, I think it has experience. If we
didn’t think so, we wouldn’t need to give them anesthetics during
operations. We’d say all that yelping and whining is just a biological
reflex — don’t worry. We think they feel pain. I’m not thinking of
political or environmental consciousness — what I mean by consciousness is
the *faculty* of consciousness. I think it goes all the way down through
creation — dogs, cats, dolphins, why not birds … when do you stop? They!
are n
ot biological robots. Maybe the experience gets much less rich than our
experience. The classic view is that it goes down as far as nervous
systems, so maybe an amoeba wouldn’t have experience, maybe worms would, but
there is something going on. The old super-paradigm of space, time, and
matter says that consciousness needs something to emerge from. But if we
change to the idea of consciousness being universal, then maybe a nervous
system is merely a particular amplifier of experience, or helps the
experiences to take shape. I think consciousness goes all the way down to
simple cells — even to pure, simple atoms. In philosophy, this is called
panpsychism. In Greek, “pan” means all. The objection to this is that
rocks must have experience, but it doesn’t mean that at all. Maybe what
goes on in a cell is one billionth of that of ours, and that of a rock one
billionth of that.

If we go all the way down, we come to the photon, one of the fundamental
levels of existence. What fascinates me is the parallels between light in
the physical world, and consciousness. We talk of consciousness as light,
and I don’t think it is accidental. We talk of the Inner Light, the light
of consciousness, and the light with which are all born into the world, etc.
We talk about that. And light is a big anomaly in physics. Light moves at
the same speed relative to the observer. That’s where Einstein’s relativity
came from. No matter how fast you go, light will overtake you and go
186,000 miles/sec faster. Even if you accelerated yourself to 185,999
miles/sec, it would go 186,000 miles/sec faster, not 1 mile/sec faster.
Nobody could explain this, and it goes completely against common sense.
They have actually flown clocks around the world, and they slow down, by
maybe a billionth of second. You have heard that nothing can go as fast as
light, because, if it ha!
s mass
, the mass would go to infinity and it would take more than all the energy
in the universe to get it going.

But light has no mass, so it goes with the speed of light, by definition.
And from the point of view of light itself, time has stopped, and distance
has shrunk to zero. So all light knows is now. It doesn’t experience time
and space as we do. Light, somehow, lies beyond the space, time matter
world, not part of the material world. What the mystics have said about the
Inner Light, is that time and space disappears when you get down to the deep
levels, with a totally silent mind. Saint Augustine said, “He that knows
the truth, knows what this light is and that it is eternity”. And Emerson
said, “time and space are but the physiological colors the eye makes, the
soul is light”. So I think there is more to this than verbal parallels.
What it seems to me, my speculation is that somehow as the universe
manifests, it is first light, and the first manifestation of consciousness
is also light.

It is not only the mystics that say about nature of the self. My favorite
is the physicist Schroedinger, who said, ” What is this I? You will, on
close introspection, find that what you really mean by “I” is the ground
stuff upon which all experiences and memories are collected”. What both the
mystics and science is pointing towards is the faculty of consciousness.
But what the mystics say — and that’s where it gets interesting — is that
pure consciousness is also God! That’s where you have the experience of
God. If you say “I am God”, in most cultures you get lynched. The German
mystic Meister Eckhart was fond of saying “I am God” or “I and “God are
One”. And the Vatican sent a messenger to say “Nope, you can’t say that.
You can say you have the experience of God but not that you are God, as God
is separate.” Ram Das tells about visiting his brother in a mental
institution and his brother asked, “Why is it that you go about the world
saying you are God, and peop!
le buy
your books, and worship you, and I say “I am God”, and they stick me in
here?” And he said, ” I say everyone else is God, and that’s the
difference.”

The mystics are not talking about what we mean by “I”, the individual “I”.
In Sanskrit they talk of different levels of “I-ness”, not the arrogating
ego who takes on the qualities, like I am Peter Russell, I am British, I am
male, I think these thoughts, etc., etc.” That’s the most superficial I.
Then below that is what’s called Atman, which is the universal
consciousness, and below that is Brahmin, which is best translated as all
that is — the whole. And the statement “I am God” is “Atman is Brahmin”.
So what they are really saying is that this fundamental level of
consciousness is what we mean by God; that which is your deepest level of
consciousness. And they say that it is a state of union, a condition of
identity with the divine. Here is a Sufi mystic, “When thou knowest thine
own existence, then thou knowest God”. And Ramana Maharshi, “I Am is the
name of God. God is none other than the self”. So I think this is what
science is unwittingly getting into, thou!
gh it
doesn’t think so. It thinks it is studying about how consciousness arises
out of space, time, and matter.

The word spiritual comes from “spiritus” in Latin, which means air, vapor,
wind, breath. What is common among all those meanings is they are all
intangible — they can’t be seen and touched, and are unmeasurable. What
science has done is study the things that which can be seen, and touched;
the material world. The spiritual traditions have been on a parallel
course, examining the intangible world of the mind — the consciousness —
and just as science has come to its own laws and discoveries, and so has the
spiritual traditions, finding discoveries about the functioning of the mind.
And we can take this a step farther. Science has given us technologies to
improve the quality of life, greater comforts. And the spiritual traditions
have given us the same, many practices improving the quality of life, giving
us greater inner freedom so we can be much clearer in our thoughts, with
more ability to achieve our potential. We can trace consciousness way back
to where humans f!
irst b
ecame aware of our consciousness. As soon as we became aware of that, we
wondered about other beings — the bears, the eagles, and perhaps the trees.
These were the beginnings of religions, projecting a human consciousness.
If a boulder rolled down and smashed their house, they perhaps believed the
mountain was angry, and should be appeased. But these all were about
consciousness. And as time moved on, these became abstracted and
generalized into deities.

I think just as science has moved through paradigms, so has religion. The
first paradigm was animism, the second was the polytheistic religions. The
Hindus had a total of somewhere around 3,300 different deities in a
hierarchical structure. In the Greek system they had twelve major deities.
In the early European traditions you had four basic deities, which we still
have in the days of the week. Wednesday was Woden’s day, Thursday is Thor’s
day. Then there is Sun’s day and the Moon’s day. But there still was the
projection of human consciousness onto the deities. Then the fourth
paradigm was the atheistic religions, which sounds like an oxymoron. By
this, I’m talking about things like Buddhism, Jainism in India,
Confucianism, Taoism. They said lets get rid of all these deities and
sacrifices. It is actually about you, it’s about dealing with your own
mind, your own consciousness, about the path to liberation. And the fifth
religious paradigm has sort of been there !
all al
ong, but well underneath, and that is called pantheism, meaning God is in
all. That is what a lot of the great mystics have said. God isn’t out
there separate, sitting on top of the mountain, as the Greeks had it, or up
in the sky. If God is in all in everything, it is also in the essence of
consciousness. Jesus was a pantheist but you wouldn’t get it normally from
reading the gospels. He said God and “I are one”, which is usually
translated as ‘I, this person, am God’. But go back to the Gospel of St
Thomas (which didn’t get modified by the conference of Constantinople in the
third century when there was this big debate about was Jesus a man who
discovered God, or a man sent by God, and it was decided he was actually the
son of God, and all the gospels were translated in that way). In the Gospel
of St. Thomas, Jesus was asked “Are you God?” And he said “Yes, and so are
you, and so is this rock”, the pantheistic view. Einstein was probably a
pantheist — a lot of en!
vironm
entalists are pantheists. It’s that view that God is in all. And if it
is, it is in the essence of our own consciousness.

And I think science is moving in that direction, too. If what the mystic
says is true, that at the deepest level of consciousness, when you get down
to those deep levels, you begin to understand, to experience, what is meant
by God, and the deepest level is God. Then the shifting of science to
consciousness-is-in-all things becomes pantheism. So I think that when
science gets down to deep mind, there actually will be a real synthesis of
science and religion. The last and real great frontier is the deep,
profound understanding of deep mind, is human consciousness, is inner space,
and we are just in the very, very beginning. And when we do, we will be
able to see that synthesis we have been waiting so long for. And now is the
time we can actually begin to understand what the great spiritual teachers
have said. In the past, you had only what the benefit of your culture had
to say. Now we can have what all the cultures have to say about
consciousness. And this will be i!
n the
language of our time, that of reason, and understanding. And finally as
the great teachers have said is, “practice it”. In that sense the real
exploration of consciousness is not thinking about it, analyzing. What they
have all said is “do it”. The real laboratory for the exploration of
consciousness is inside your own mind.

In that sense, each of has our own laboratory, each doing our own
exploration, each coming to our own conclusions, sharing this with others,
learning from each other. Which is the process of science. It may not fit
the current paradigm, which is having hypotheses, conducting experiments,
and comparing the results with others, doing new experiments. That’s what
we are all doing today, drawing our own conclusions and sharing and learning
from others, what works in terms of meditation, etc. Just look in any
bookstore. You find thousands of books, people sharing with each other,
through many forms of media. That’s what makes now really exciting, not
that we are reaching that understanding. We are approaching that time when,
for the first time ever on the planet, we are reaching that time when we can
have an universal awakening, rather than just those fortunate individuals
and saints, sages and mystics who woken up. This probably will come at a
time when we need it so much.

I finish with a poem, ‘A Sleep of Prisoners. I think it sums it all up so
well. It’s by Christopher Fry, from his play by that name, written in
poetic form at the end of the second World War. I love it so much.

From Fry’s ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’:

The human heart can go the lengths of God.

Dark and cold we may be,
but this is no winter now.
The frozen misery of centuries
breaks, cracks, begins to move;
The thunder is the thunder of the floes,
The thaw, the flood, the upstart Spring.

Thank God our time is now,
when wrong comes up to face us,
everywhere, never to leave us,
till we take the longest stride of soul
we ever took.

Affairs are now soul-sized.
The enterprise is exploration into God.

Where are you making for?

It takes so many thousand years to wake,
but will you wake, for pity’s sake!
_ _ _

About the author of the above poem:

http://www.thelionspart.co.uk/projects/sleep.htm

Christopher Fry is 94 this year. Undoubtedly one of England’s great 20th
Century verse dramatists, his wonderful plays are distinguished for their
rich language and profound comments on the human condition.

<…>

“We were talking even then, as we are talking, with greater instancy, now,
of the likelihood of war. And I think we realized then, as we certainly now
believe, that progress is the growth of vision: the increased perception of
what makes for life and what makes for death. I have tried — as you know,
not altogether successfully — to find a way for comedy to say something of
this, since comedy is an essential part of men’s understanding.

“In ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’, I have tried to make a more simple statement,
though in a complicated design where each of the four men is seen through
the sleeping thoughts of the others, and each, in his own dream, speaks as
at heart he is, not as he believes himself to be. In the later part of
Corporal Adam’s dream, the dream changes to a state of thought entered into
by all the sleeping men, as though, sharing their prison life, they shared,
for a few moments of the night, their sleeping life also.”

[From an open letter to Robert Gittings from Christopher Fry, 1951.]

In his early days, Christopher Fry was a schoolmaster, actor and theatre
director. He first came to prominence with a one-act jeu d’esprit, ‘A
Phoenix Too Frequent’, and a religious play about St. Cuthman entitled ‘A
Boy with a Cart’ (1937). In 1948 he wrote ‘Thor, with Angels’ (Canterbury
Festival), and in 1950 ‘The Firstborn’, with Alec Clunes as Moses. It was,
however, with the production, first at the Arts, and later at the Globe
Theatre, in 1949, of ‘The Lady’s Not For Burning’ that Fry sprang into the
limelight, with John Gielgud heading a distinguished cast. His next play,
written for Laurence Olivier, was ‘Venus Observed’ (1950), and in the same
year he translated Anouilh’s L’Invitation au Chateau as ‘Ring Around the
Moon’, with Paul Scofield in the dual role of the twin hero and villain. In
1954, Edith Evans starred in ‘The Dark is Light Enough’. In 1955, Fry then
translated ‘The Lark’, about Joan of Arc, and ‘Curtmantle’, about Henry II
and Beckett, had its f!
irst p
roduction. ‘A Yard the Sun’ was performed at Nottingham in 1970. In 1986
he wrote ‘One Thing More, or Caedmon Construed’ and in 1999 a millennium
play for his old school in Bedford, ‘A Ringing of Bells’.

With ‘A Sleep of Prisoners’ (1951), Fry reverted to his earlier biblical
vein. It debuted at St. Thomas, Regent Street, in 1951, and after a long
initial tour has frequently been revived.

==================================
CERJ@igc.org wilmerding@earthlink.net
——————————————-
John Wilmerding, Convener and List Manager
Coalition for Equity-Restorative Justice (CERJ)
217 High Street, Brattleboro, VT, USA
ZIP: 05301-6073 Phone: 1-802-254-2826
CERJ was founded in New York in May, 1997.
——————————————-
“Work together to reinvent justice using methods
that are fair; that conserve, restore, and even
create harmony, equity and good will in society.”
——————————————-
To join (or leave) the CERJ email list, kindly send
me an email message at wilmerding@earthlink.net
or at cerj@igc.org. I’ll need your first & last name,
your email address, and your state, province or
country of residence. Thank you! — John W.
==================================

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:51:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mary wrote >The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told
me the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others,
the first step is to meet eboga oneself. This makes a lot of sense to me.
That’s why I am here.<

One person comes leaping to mind, whose name will not be mentioned here, who
promotes ibogaine and treatment with ibogaine incessently, but has never
once tried it himself. He promotes the heck out of it (he doesn’t act as a
provider or facilitator though), speaking out about it in every instance he
can, talking about it, pushing it on politicians and addicts and treatment
providers and authors and reporters and just about anyone else breathing-
but he hasn’t ever done it himself.
Does this make his promotion any less valid? Or is it “ok” for him to be
doing so even having not tried it himself? I like the fact that he is so
positive even without trying it, that he has decided just from seeing and
speaking with many who have tried it and liked it for one (or more)
reason(s) or other(s) that it’s worth it to him to promote- but not to try
it himself. And to me, that’s cool.
Were he providing it, perhaps I’d feel differently, prefering that anyone
actually working with me giving me such a drug would actually have more
experience and knows exactly what s/he is talking about from experience.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?

Dear Dr. Tom,
As soon as I sent the post I realized that I didn’t introduce myself.
I have been on the forum for almost 2 years but only recently started to
post. I am considering meeting eboga because I want to heal my emotions and
live a life with more awareness/joy. I simply don’t know if this is the way
for me to go.
I am apprenticing in an ayurveda clinic and there are some patients who
seek herbs, masssage, and spiritual counseling for alcohol and/or drug
related challenges. I see on a day to day basis how herbs heal and it makes
perfect sense to me that nature has a remedy for addiction/psychospiritual
conflict.
The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told me
the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others, the
first step is to meet eboga oneself. This makes a lot of sense to me.
That’s why I am here.
I feel that it’s only right for me to let you know who is asking you
pointed and personal questions…
Yours truly,
Mary

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: upcoming treatment
Date: September 30, 2004 at 8:26:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, I have had those same thoughts in my head about giving up something that sucks but seems to be working at least a little bit. I’ve been on and off of methadone since 1985. I think if it was going to allow me a much better life it would have happened by now. I want so much more out of life. I’ve coasted along long enough. I’ve been able to keep a job, and help raise my son, and I’ve played some pretty cool gigs. All of it about half way numb to what it should really feel like. Up until this point I probably couldn’t have handled much more reality. But being around this list and interacting with the people here has put me much more firmly on the ground. Now if you look at that, it looks nuts, how could this merry group of sideways thinking Ibonauts help anybody ground themeless in reality. I don’t know but it happened. If I had not been made to wait for my treatment I probably wouldn’t have been ready for it. Everything that has held me up and made me research more has educated me better and gotten me closer to the point I am in now. Scared shitless and wondering if I’m doing the right thing.LOL I’m kidding but I am apprehensive about this but somehow I know its exactly what I need to do. When I’m through to the other side I want to help spread the word. I won’t be stopped. Only the Ibogaine can change my mind now so I guess we’ll see. I want to thank everybody for the kind words of encouragement and the advise I have gotten. I plan on not looking at the ‘puter till after I have done this so light a candle Friday night and have a good weekend. I’ll see yall after the walls come down. Randy PS Callie, somehow I know its coming for you too, soon. You can do it. Be ready.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:To Doc Tom (doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??)
Date: September 30, 2004 at 12:08:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, I am Callie, a 45 year old Practical Nurse Methadone Maintenance patient since 1997.
I am hoping to experience Ibogaine before the year is over.
I love reading all the colorful, descriptive personal insights into Ibogaine but they are your personal insights as Ibogaine relates to you and probably some insights shared with you by patients and other Ibonauts.
You write from a very intellectual point of view.(IMHO)
Personally, I have a difficult time understanding what you are saying at all! I am sure it is just me. I do not understand all the symbolism (occult, cryptomasonic???!!!)
And, why do you refer to life as a cosmic chicken farm? Why do you call Ibogaine a seventh dimensional
plant ally? What is a mongo level of suffering?
You say, ” It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve got with the Eye. The Undrug.” I am positive That I do not ‘get’ it.
One more question please. What does this mean? “The human spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment, and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.” mean in regular, everyday language?
Dr. Tom, I am not trying to be smart ass. I bet you think I am! I just really don’t understand what you are saying.
I do not understand the next paragraph of your post either. I hated ‘The Matrix’.
The one thing you said that I understood, “None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them. They are here for their own lessons of cause and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak. Thanks for all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.”

I hope you reply cause I am very worried about my Ibogaine experience to come. I am afraid I am too limited in my insight of cause and affect for me to benefit.
Sincerely,
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world – beautiful email
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:56:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 9:25:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

But, on the offchance that
it encounters even the slightest bit of water, it
unfurls its fronds, transforms from brown to green,
and is reborn. It repeats this process literally
hundreds of times during its lifespan.

Hi Julie,

Nature is full of death and rebirth, isn’t it? Perhaps that is where the storied of reincarnation and resurrection originated. From people watching natural cycles.

BTW Thanks for the purple light. Are you getting Phil Dickean with me?

Horselover Not So Fat.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:50:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

The mental cravings returned rather quickly for me last time. I am told that I will receive a larger dose than last time for my retreatment…and then can look at boosters if needed later.

I think Howard could probably answer more fully the technical issues around the metabolites better than me.:)

Sean

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: I am really scared- (was-doin’ really shitty- What Is I)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/2004 10:41:31 AM Central Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who took
> ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the results,
> openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
> from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling me

That is what I see too and I am damn glad you guys are shootin’ straight.
I really want to get off Methadone. I want to have a realistic sense of what I am getting myself into though when I go for my Ibogaine treatment.
Honestly, at this point I am damn scared. I have been relatively ‘normal’ on my 110 mgs of Methadone the past few years. I maintain. I have a LOT of responsibility at home and also expend a BUNCH of energy daily assisting my significant other. If I have an ‘off ‘ day, I can’t just lie down and hope I get to feeling better. I HAVE to keep on keeping on.
I am really afraid of what will happen when my ‘security blanket’ is taken away!
But, and it is a BIG but, I WANT TO BE CLEAN AND DRUG FREE AND NORMAL! I want to feel okay. Like I said before I am scared and I don’t know what to do!
I am praying about it. I am asking for guidance and for signs. I plan to discuss this all with my Methadone counselor tomorrow but I already know what she is going to say! You all probably do too.
I will let you know for sure tomorrow.
Anyhow, thanks Preston, Sean and Dr. Tom. Hell, thanks everybody…..you all make this list very helpful!
Callie

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world – beautiful email
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:24:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sean,

That was a cool email…I’m glad to hear you’re doing
better. On the topic of resurrection: Recently I
ordered some detox products from an herbalist in
Holland, and they sent me a bonus, free gift: a Rose
of Jericho.

This amazing plant can be dormant for months in the
desert, blowing to and fro on the breezes, dry and
brittle like a tumbleweed. But, on the offchance that
it encounters even the slightest bit of water, it
unfurls its fronds, transforms from brown to green,
and is reborn. It repeats this process literally
hundreds of times during its lifespan.

hugs, good vibes, and purple light

Julie from Toronto(the T dot O),

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself – Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:54:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

. It was suggested to me, for example, that I amy consider low level boosters of ibogaine if opiate or cocaine craving returns as the ibo metabolites dissipate over time. I am not going to refuse such help in the name of sort of spiritual improvement. It’s just part of the act, part of the show, part of life.

Sean

Hello Sean,
Sounds like your feeling a liitle better,good to see.
I am curious as to your experiences with Ibogaine.When you say,’when the metabolites dissipate over time,,,the craving returns.

Can I ask,when the cravings came back,was there any physical withdrawals at all,I mean after the Ibo’ wore off did you get any physical symtems come back,or was it purley mental craving?

How much done were you on(if any) and how long did the Ibo’ stay in your system before you felt like using again?

Forgive me if I have asked you this before.

Also,was there anything that happened when you got the urge to use,emotionaly,like,,,,did anyone upset you,,ect?

Thanks,and with smiles; Jasen.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:26:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On a lighter note so to speak, as a teenager I loved mescaline. I thought it was great headache cure, better than aspirin. I dosed almost daily. Funny but I got a headache every day around 5:00 which could only be helped I thought by mesc at 7:00. Ah, youth.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.?? (a little long)
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:22:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/29/04 12:09:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
> > healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
> the
> > attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
> > mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of
things,
> > I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga)

Hi,

Actually I am naturally disinclined toward this kind of dualism where basically the mind/ego are split off against the “real” which is usually called the spiritual realm.

In my non dualistic world view, mind and ego are just as real or unreal as everything else. So often the spiritual is set off in some kind of cosmic opposition to the ego. The ego becomes the enemy so to speak, the source of suffering.

From my reading of Buddhism, for example, the ego per se is not the cause of suffering. Attachment is. So by little by little dying to the phenomenal world (or having an NDE type experience like ibogaine sometimes offers) we learn to gradually use our attachments and see the truth that all is passing, all is changing, there is nothing to cling to. This includes the ego/mind itself of course, that does make the ego an adversary, just another illusion. Like everything else in our world.

I am greatly impressed with the spiritual thinkers who speak of healing at various levels. Sometimes venting, griping, telling one’s story so to speak, is just what is needed to bring about a healing. To in some way deny feelings in order to feel spiritual is in my opinion a type of denial.

Finally on a purely physical note, because that level is real-unreal too, we do really have these chemicals and synapses, etc., in our heads which can cause wild fluctuation in mood. It was suggested to me, for example, that I amy consider low level boosters of ibogaine if opiate or cocaine craving returns as the ibo metabolites dissipate over time. I am not going to refuse such help in the name of sort of spiritual improvement. It’s just part of the act, part of the show, part of life.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] slowly seeking more than the “material” world
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:13:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I wrote the subject line, Madonna’s eighties hit Material Girl was playing in my head. Anyway, I spent the day reading Beal’s book The Ibogaine Story, as well as book on healing called, “Entering the Ghost River.”

As someone who has hailed from the secular humanist strain of Unitarianism, it has been along time since I have been open to the Gnostic thread of Beal’s book. Also, I have been very Western scientific concerning healing in general.

However, I had a dream Monday night, the first night after my stopping using again which really struck me. In the dream, I came upon a new church near my home. I walked in. It was clearly a Catholic church, the religion of my childhood. It was Easter, and the congregation was singing, “Christ is risen today, alleluia.”

Then I woke up. Now I am not turning to Christianity or anything. (really I’m not), but I do see significance in the resurrection theme as it relates to my current situation of getting clean again after spending time in the tomb of heroin and crack. (BTW I did overdose twice during my relapse and was brought back, so I was literally “resurrected” in one sense.:) Next week I am taking the sacrament of ibogaine. I know that my old skeptical secular humanist self would never bother making connection like this, so something is changing.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And BTW Allison, stay strong through those treatments for the Hep. Are using marijuana, I have heard it helps.

That’s all folks
Sean

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 6:43:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dr. Tom,
As soon as I sent the post I realized that I didn’t introduce myself. I have been on the forum for almost 2 years but only recently started to post. I am considering meeting eboga because I want to heal my emotions and live a life with more awareness/joy. I simply don’t know if this is the way for me to go.
I am apprenticing in an ayurveda clinic and there are some patients who seek herbs, masssage, and spiritual counseling for alcohol and/or drug related challenges. I see on a day to day basis how herbs heal and it makes perfect sense to me that nature has a remedy for addiction/psychospiritual conflict.
The treatment (ibogaine) providers that I have met have all told me the same thing – if someone desires to work with eboga to help others, the first step is to meet eboga oneself. This makes a lot of sense to me. That’s why I am here.
I feel that it’s only right for me to let you know who is asking you pointed and personal questions…
Yours truly,
Mary

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 5:46:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon, I have mushroom tea, a sub- psychedelic dose is good enough to take the
depression, also in combination with vitamin B6 , B12.
Only, the people who come here like the full trip dose, especially
They don’t get them at home.

It is something I like to put my mind to it.

Sara.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon f. [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: woensdag 29 september 2004 18:29
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I
saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

What dosages are commonly used for those applications?

What I’m wondering is if they’re useful for these things in
sub-psychedelic doses…

cause if you have to take enough mushrooms to make you “trip” to say, cure
a headache, I can’t see that as being a particularly practical medicine.
But it would be very interesting to find out that they have useful effects
at sub-psychedelic doses.

thanx =)

j0n

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] -what is I?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 5:45:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston and MindVox;

“…This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I
get what you’re saying here. I guess what I’m saying in this reply is
that I’m not sure what your point is Tom. Overall I think your note is
being positive but I’m not sure. Is it? I mean, at some points you sound
angry and others you sound loving so I’m not exactly sure what you’re
saying Tom is my point.”

I guess I am conflicted and in describing ibogaine I express anger and
love and uncertainty in my post, as they co-exist within me these days
about many social “realities”. Sorry if that confuses you or others. My
point was just that ibogaine seems to be an incredible, unique tool for
enabling self reflections and change in the lives of many who have tried
it, that I have learned from. In asking that we talk about “what it is”
I seek comments from others on the list to further inform me about this
plant medicine.

Clearly there are positive joyous reasons to love our lives, and anger
responses, in me anyway, come with perceptions of all the anti-joy and
negative forces maintained in force against these positve, loving
possibilities. Personally, drug addiction isn’t one of the good guys in
“my” reality. So finding and experiencing a botanical medicine that
seems to be uniquely helpful with both addiction and self destructive
habitual behavior brought me to this list. The experiences of members
are interesting to me, and the comments from them were solicited by my not
altogether positive post.

I enjoyed your salute to the positive aspects in your life that you
listed, which might have been worth the annoyance of my confusing post.
I agree that telling you what you must “get” from Iboga would be an
arrogance that I wouldn’t appreciate either. Sorry you read it that way.
I don’t see my post as imposing my interpretation of reality on you,
tho. Even before any ibogaine insights, I know I couldn’t do that even
if I wanted to, which I don’t.

People on this list are sharing intimate details about what is tough or
painful or blocked in their life. I find the overall compassion ratio
among us refreshing and precious. In asking about uses and effects of
ibogaine, I want to hear what works for people with problems that I
don’t have, at this time.

I do have an agenda, in asking about “what is ibogaine?”. I hope that
the realities of those more experienced with these challenges or
experienced in ways I have not had to become, will share good stuff.
These ideas will improve my understanding in how to use the Eye more
wisely and appropriately with my clients, patients, and in my own life.
This seems to be the case.

If you got the impression that I wanted to impose an
interpretation upon you, please accept my sincere apologies.

I have observed some changes in your narrative writing, Preston, since
your sessions. Maybe others can confirm or comment on that. I sense a
broader range of imagery and ease of empathy in your narratives, maybe a
more emotive and hopeful tone. I couldn’t lay that as tribute to the
ibogaine, perhaps a lessened intake of other things, or life
achievements elsewhere in your life, a better editor, I couldn’t say. I
appreciate your growth as a writer, tho, and likewise your postings on
MindVox that pertain to getting past addiction and despair. I’ll try to
get my own postings less confusing and to be percieved as less imposing.

Dr. Tom

From: “jon f.” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 12:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

What dosages are commonly used for those applications?

What I’m wondering is if they’re useful for these things in
sub-psychedelic doses…

thanx =)

j0n

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 12:09:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tom wrote >To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

And I just thought of something- how could a “drug” (iboga- or the Eye)
“show” us how “false and transient ALL drugged feelings are” na dyet have
some of us believe it? I guess I have to admit to confusion about this one,
in that what I experienced on ibogaine was the result of a drug interacting
with my own thoughts, whether we want to call it by that appellation or not-
ibogaine is a drug, whether “different” than other drugs or not- itsa drug.
So are you saying that what ibogaine- or the Eye- showed you is wrong or
false? Or is that particular drugged feeling honest and true but ALL OTHER
DRUGS’ resulting FEELINGS wrong and false? As noted, I’m confused here. And,
not entirely in agreement with you I guess.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:40 AM
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <tomo7@starband.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions.<

There’s a fine line between “griping,” and “reporting,” “venting,” and
“giving voice through printed word my current thoughts after recently
taking
ibogaine twice.”

Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice.<

Just want it pointed out (by I guess) that I’m not “disappointed,” I’m
merely (merely?) pointing out where I myself stand mentally (and
physically)
at almost 6 and 4 weeks post-ibo sessions.

To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

I guess Iboga shows us each and everyone different things, eh?

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?<

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
the
attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of
things,
I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga)
to
“bum me out” in any way anyway.

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and
those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.<

I don’t hear that you are “slamming” anyone at this point. But I do see
what
seems to me you putting your own interpretation onto my reality and
experience. What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who
took
ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the
results,
openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling
me
I
don’t “get” what I’ve “got with the Eye.” Un-drug? Cool, glad that’s
what
You Got. That isn’t even remotely what I got Tom, I tell you in friendly
fashion with a smile.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly.<

Well, considering what you listed, no, there’s not. But then, I think of
V’s
soft skin and loving smile, I think of my beautiful 10 cats and how much
they love me and I them, I think of my new book, I think of going to a
cool
dance this Friday, I think of all my friends and relatives who love and
care
about me and likewise me them, I think about this list and the DrugWar
list,
I think of all the protestors in the streets calling for a nicer world
view,
I think about living in Paris and Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I think of
Sarasota beaches, I think of my old basset hound, I think of all the
great
music, I think of all the great psychedelics and other substances given
us
by the earth (and really, when we get right down to it, as I was
discussing
with someone else yesterday, what is “un-natural”? Not a single thing on
the
planet, not even the “synthetics” as they are “created” by wo/man and
nothing we can do on this planet ever is “unnatural”- nothing
whatsoever,
in
my own view of things that is) I think of V’s Dad who once hated me but
now
brags about me at his high-powered Wall Street investment firm, I think
about my parents coming around about the whole War on Some Drugs and
Users
thing, I think of Sara and the folk in Mexico and Canada and elsewhere
(this’ll have to cover all those place it ain’t exactly legal) giving
ibogaine and other powerful psychedelics to people seeking change, I
think
of Howard unselfishly sharing with me his knowlege and ideas, I think of
Patrick sending me the picture that turned into my newest tattoo, I
think
of
sex (although I sorta already did that at the beginning of all this
thinking, only obliquely), I think of all the things I still want to see
and
experience, and then I’m sure that there is plenty to feel “warm and
fuzzy”
about, even if I don’t always focus on those things and lots more. If I
focus only on what you point out here, heck yeah, I’d be depressed all
the
time instead of only a lot of the time lately.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use
for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.<

This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I get
what
you’re saying here.
I guess what I’m saying in this reply is that I’m not sure what your
point
is Tom. Overall I think your note is being positive but I’m not sure. Is
it?
I mean, at some points you sound angry and others you sound loving so
I’m
not exactly sure what you’re saying Tom is my point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better,
longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling
of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of
your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and
doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come
before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?
Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the
best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda.
Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in
3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take
off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in
your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in
silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited
database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The
human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead
these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles,
designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition
deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well
it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most
of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to.
The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking
up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent
Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening
jello
of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us
they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello
mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All
facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go
into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use
for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations
of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience
the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for
those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired
for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as
opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will
Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for
them
however much we love them. They are here for their own lessons of
cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak. Thanks
for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 11:40:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s a fine line between “griping,” and “reporting,” “venting,” and
“giving voice through printed word my current thoughts after recently
taking
ibogaine twice.”

Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the
pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice.<

Just want it pointed out (by I guess) that I’m not “disappointed,” I’m
merely (merely?) pointing out where I myself stand mentally (and
physically)
at almost 6 and 4 weeks post-ibo sessions.

To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.<

I guess Iboga shows us each and everyone different things, eh?

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out?<

Hmmm. Were that the case here, I guess a “clever seventh dimensional
healer/trickster plant ally” would have to “bum me out” were it to make
the
attempt to convince me my suffering is a product, a “creation” of my own
mind and ego. Since that’s not exactly the case in my own view of things,
I’m not sure I agree that it is necessary for a plant trickster (iboga) to
“bum me out” in any way anyway.

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.<

I don’t hear that you are “slamming” anyone at this point. But I do see
what
seems to me you putting your own interpretation onto my reality and
experience. What I see on-list at the moment are a number of folk who took
ibogaine for one reason or other(s) and are now dealing with the results,
openly and honestly on-list without holding much of anything back it
appears
from my limited perspective. I do almost have issue with anyone telling me
I
don’t “get” what I’ve “got with the Eye.” Un-drug? Cool, glad that’s what
You Got. That isn’t even remotely what I got Tom, I tell you in friendly
fashion with a smile.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly.<

Well, considering what you listed, no, there’s not. But then, I think of
V’s
soft skin and loving smile, I think of my beautiful 10 cats and how much
they love me and I them, I think of my new book, I think of going to a
cool
dance this Friday, I think of all my friends and relatives who love and
care
about me and likewise me them, I think about this list and the DrugWar
list,
I think of all the protestors in the streets calling for a nicer world
view,
I think about living in Paris and Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I think of
Sarasota beaches, I think of my old basset hound, I think of all the great
music, I think of all the great psychedelics and other substances given us
by the earth (and really, when we get right down to it, as I was
discussing
with someone else yesterday, what is “un-natural”? Not a single thing on
the
planet, not even the “synthetics” as they are “created” by wo/man and
nothing we can do on this planet ever is “unnatural”- nothing whatsoever,
in
my own view of things that is) I think of V’s Dad who once hated me but
now
brags about me at his high-powered Wall Street investment firm, I think
about my parents coming around about the whole War on Some Drugs and Users
thing, I think of Sara and the folk in Mexico and Canada and elsewhere
(this’ll have to cover all those place it ain’t exactly legal) giving
ibogaine and other powerful psychedelics to people seeking change, I think
of Howard unselfishly sharing with me his knowlege and ideas, I think of
Patrick sending me the picture that turned into my newest tattoo, I think
of
sex (although I sorta already did that at the beginning of all this
thinking, only obliquely), I think of all the things I still want to see
and
experience, and then I’m sure that there is plenty to feel “warm and
fuzzy”
about, even if I don’t always focus on those things and lots more. If I
focus only on what you point out here, heck yeah, I’d be depressed all the
time instead of only a lot of the time lately.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.<

This is a really neat looking paragraph, but I’m not exactly sure I get
what
you’re saying here.
I guess what I’m saying in this reply is that I’m not sure what your point
is Tom. Overall I think your note is being positive but I’m not sure. Is
it?
I mean, at some points you sound angry and others you sound loving so I’m
not exactly sure what you’re saying Tom is my point.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning
and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda. Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in 3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited
database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The
human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles,
designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to.
The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening jello
of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us
they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All
facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go
into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations
and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the
same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will
Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for
them
however much we love them. They are here for their own lessons of cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak. Thanks
for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

From: Maryditton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 29, 2004 at 10:02:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,
Callie is right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are the codependent. I hope you don’t have to go all the way down with the ex to get it. I’ve been there. I know. Your last post was as if you were saying, OK, thanks for the help but I just gotta do myself in cause I love this here ex bad boy of mine sooooooooo much. Hannah, do you think the ex would be there taking care of your needs when and if push comes to shove??????? My friends talked to me endlessly – but the only thing that really did it for me was when I was willing to see my fantasy.
With love,
Mary

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 9:24:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.<

LOL, Sara, we’re lookin’, we’re lookin’ but we sure ain’t findin’.
;-((
Guess I’ll have to keep focusing on those other things I mentioned until I
do find.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw
with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the
Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off
methadone.

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 29, 2004 at 8:33:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You obviously love your animals and thats only got to be good. Spend time with them, enjoy them, forget the bullshit cleaning stuff. Whos going to remember that you cleaned your flat every week or whatever, or more important will you. Or will you remember the walks you had with your dogs and horse etc. Enjoy them and let them enjoy your company. Best wishes. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:43:59 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!

Thanks Mary 🙂

After spending the past 5yrs (I know it doesn’t sound long but I’m only 23) chasing H and letting the rest of my life disappear down the drain I’m now interested in so many things-it seems like there’s so much out there, so many totally wierd and wonderful things! I haven’t really settled into anything if you know what I mean. I’ve been reading bits on Buddhism, meditation etc etc. I’m trying to practise visualisation. I’m trying to get back into Yoga. Y’know when you discover something and it just seems so right? I’ve always been interested in Wicca and that feels really right. I’ve gotta life coach. Since I was a little kid I’ve loved animals especially horses and dreamed of being a horse whisperer like Monty roberts if you’ve heard of him? Now my life coach is trying to get me funded to go on some courses and I’m going to meet a local one next week to see if I can work voluntarily to gain experience! (I’m trying really hard not to let my excitement bubble over coz I’m still kinda expecting it to all fuck up in my usual pessimistic way!) I’ve had a friend’s pony to look after for a couple of months and that’s been wonderful as I’ve been riding most days (I didn’t ride the whole time I was into my gear) I’m just gutted now as I have to give him back and I love him so much and I won’t see him again :-()

So why have I been dabbling again. Today’s Day 3 again but I have a Sub script so I’m not really ill. But I feel really angry. I don’t even know why I’m writing all this, just that I have to speak even to no one. I’ve got 2 friends staying in me & my boyfs tiny 1bedroom flat and i’m starting to go mad-cleaning up after 3 men. I feel really tearful lke my insides wanna explode. My dogs nagging me for a walk and barking at nothing. Now my landlords turned up!

When things get tuff I run back to gear like a baby. I MUST NOT… It doesn’t help that one of my friends staying is my old partner in crime so we’ve been fucking up together. He’s in the other room n I can’t talk to him cos I know I’m not strong enough right now to say no. AAAAH!

I’m hopefully going to open university in Feb and I’m dreading it. I only went to Uni I now realise coz my parents wanted me to. I’ve always been the black sheep of our family (on my 21st BDay a family friend got my a black toy sheep as a joke) always in trouble, always the mardy one coz I’ve always been depressed (which doesnt exist to them) They hated me, I got kicked out, my mum and I nearly tore each others hearts out! So I wanted to do something good, make them happy for once. And what did I do? Get into H and get shit loads in debt and never finish Uni. So they paid hundreds, porbably thousands in fees for me just to flunk out. I was looking forward to completeing my degree (Its in Psychology!!!) but now I’m terrified. The more I think about it the more I realise I haven’t got a chance and I’m just gonna fail again. I told my mum about the horse whisperer thing and she LAFFED at me “They’re just dreams Hannah”

Why an I writing all this? I feel like I have no identity. I feel scared all the time… I give up now this is just getting to self-pitying! I must learn to think less and do more…

Sorru ecveryone I meant this to be a happy post – a ‘look how much changes when you give up the gear’ post. But maybe nothing changes. Nice people are giving me chances but I’m just gonna fuck up again. I might aswell have a hit right now! NO, no that was a crap joke. I just feel bad and worried and I have no one to talk to. No one that understands or who will even let me finish-normally they just jump in and tell me I’m being an idiot!

Right…pulll myself together…I’m going to check a few emails, walk my dog who appears to be bursting for a wee and ride my pony and forget about all the shit I’ve gotta do like clean my flat etc.

Not sure what this rant meant, forget it and carry on! 🙂

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: Maryditton@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine] Welcome to Mary….was good book

Dear Hannah,
In the book Healing Mantras by Thomas Ashley-Farrand this manta Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha is sounded out (Om Gum Guh-Nuh-Puh-Tuh-Yei Nahm-Ah-Ha and the meaning is explained as “Om and salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed.”
Hope this helps. If you get into it there is a CD put out by the same author as well as many other sound mantra CDs as well. I am in the same place as you are – in the “checking it out” phase. I am certain that there is a lot to find out about the subject and what interests me is finding out how to make use of it…
Oh, I forgot to explain that Gum is the seed mantra for Ganesh, the god that is the remover of all obstacles. Ganesh has the head of an elephant. Let me know how it goes!
Peace,
Mary

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:32:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People care even if you don’t know it or we don’t know you personally so to speak. Am sure everyone on this list has been through similar situations. Just keep telling yourself that you are a good person, you have cleaned up before, you can do it again. Believe in you.
I know its easier said than done but lots of love and good wishes. Allison. Its so hard to put things into words at times but hope you know it is with all good intentions.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 27 September 2004 11:19:44 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty

In a message dated 9/26/04 5:21:07 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
again,
fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like mad, after
a 60 hour work week. Have work tomorrow.

The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for about
three weeks from now. Away, where I think it will give me better results. I
am on the verge of tears right now. Very down. Looking for a ray of hope.
I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive suicide I don’t
know.

Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way. I am sinking fast.
>>

So your life gets on track in three weeks. Using crack and dope is no reason
to not take your HIV medications. If Ibogaine were an approved medication you
would most likely not be having these problems. Too bad your doctor can’t
hand you some ibogaine and say, take this and call me in three days.

Take care of yourself.

Howard

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty
Date: September 29, 2004 at 7:25:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you think the reward type thinking is part of the addiction behaviour. I know we would reward or treat ourselves on birthdays, special days etc. but then we somehow managed to make special days to fit if you know what I mean. And of course special days couldn’t just be one day they had to stretch a bit or a lot as the case may be, or money and availability decreed. Allison
PS Have been trying to keep up with whats going on but have been real tired and not up to a lot. Have just done my first month on interferon treatment for HepC . They tell me it gets better and I sure hope so cos feel like shit at the moment but am hanging in there.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 7:12:39 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [doin really shitty

Thinking about prestons email and the concept of the crash….
And also thinking about you Sean.

For me taking ibogaine is akin to the peeling away of a veil, the removal of
the soft focus glasses, quite literally a sober look at the world. Initially
everything seems really bright post session and then the vision starts to
adjust and things just seem…well as they are. Is this a crash? It
certainly can be accompanied by depression, but then the depression was
probably lurking beneath the surface anyway, not a new state brought about
by the ingestion of ibogaine. No conclusions….just thoughts.

I actually agree with Julian that ibogaine is not a panacea – its not a
miracle. But it can be a catalyst for miraculous experiences. But not in and
of itself. Its the dynamic between ingested and he who ingests. It doesn’t
change the way things are but it can provide a different way of looking at
some of our issues, even bring some of them into sharper focus so we can
better deal with them.

What it doesn’t do is eradicate them. So Sean don’t beat yourself up that
you are using again. You will have learnt, you will have taken important
steps and the fact that you are booked into go again shows
determination..something we all need to ride the wave rather than get
dragged by it.

But I would ask what else you are doing other than taking ibogaine?

This question has prompted me to share some of my own experiences struggling
with addiction and the state you can be in for quite some time following
“getting clean”.

I have had a number of addictions to deal with and as each one gets kicked
all the same old stuff comes right back up and for several months following
quitting I have to go through a very difficult process. What you could very
easily call a crash, but what I would actually call depression. IN fact half
the time it really pisses me off coz I want some kind of reward for the fact
I have quit, and yet if I am honest I feel a whole lot worse than when I was
using (whatever it was at the time). Not many people talk about this. Most
of my friends in NA or AA say how great they feel stopping and being clean,
how much their moods have stabilised etc etc.

Well for me it wasn’t like that. Moods didn’t stabilise in fact got worse.
Cried buckets, felt really low and it took everything I had to keep
remembering that this state does change. That all things change..this we
know right…but when you are in a really blue state…of course you want to
reach for the thing you know will get you out of it. But its the mind that
has to kick in to tell you that that will only be temporary relief and that
you might actually feel a whole lot worse afterwards. It takes me sheer
determination and will power (I am lucky I have this) to ride this period.
It can be months. IN fact most recently, having quit my last dependency at
the beginning of this year (cannabis) and venturing forth into complete
abstinence – for the first time in my life – the fall out is still
happening, although not with such intensity. I smoked daily for about
sixteen years and stopping has meant exploring a whole load of issues that I
had kind of ignored or kept a comfortable haze away from for most of my
life. And of course all the stuff that had accumulated as a result of
creating that soft focus and haze also has to be looked at.

Unless you are in therapy or have some really experienced people around you,
very often people aren’t prepared for the fact that when you take something
– that has been your blanket, your soft focus on the world, for possibly
the majority of your life – away, well all those things that you have been
hiding (consciously or not) will resurface. Old emotions, things you can’t
really understand, old patterns etc just jump right back up. Its like a
complete re-education has to take place. How to deal with life and the
accompanying emotions without any of the familiar comforting props.

I still crave that softening of the edges that only certain molecules can
provide, that stepping out of time and space, that escape…cos that was
what it was for me. But I remind myself that I have chosen to embark on a
different way of getting that now. That this way takes a bit more discipline
but ultimately is more sustainable.

Now I am not advocating total abstinence. In fact I am not advocating
anything. Just saying that this is what can happen when you say goodbye to
an old friend. And that the process can take quite some time.

This is why aftercare, post ibogaine therapy is so important. Coz you need
support, and as much as you can get or its a lonely bleak ride.

People tend to think ibogaine makes it easy. I would say it makes it easier
but even repeat sessions, low dose, whatever are only going to slightly
cushion whatever it is that you gotta face.

I don’t want to sound depressing on the list. But I also think that this is
something that needs to be discussed, if people are going to get the most
out of ibogaine. Its the doorway. The catalyst, but walking through that
door and the path you choose can be real uncomfortable and take a hell of a
lot of determination.

To lighten it up a bit, just remember, and this applies for you Sean as
well, that everything changes. If you decide to stop using now, yeah you
might feel really bad for a while,and it could be quite a long while, but
you will start to feel better again. The light comes round again even after
the longest dark night. And when it does it shines so much brighter anyway
and you can see and feel it so much more intensely.

As Marquez said

“I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak of the mountain,
without knowing that the real happiness is in how it is scaled.”

Sean you are scaling the mountain right now, and probably at a really jagged
bit. But its all part of the journey. Its all part of your process. Learning
to accept where you are, wherever that is, up, down, middling or really
fucking high, it is all good. There is no right or wrong. No end and no
beginning…just continuous cycles…..

Acceptance is the key to all this I think.

Before I run the risk of a really long rant I will sign off,

All the best

hattie

> Believe you me, I’ve been feeling kinda shitty myself.
> I think many of us are.
> I’m not “using” per se, but I feel like doing so a lot of the time.
> I suspect that ibogaine has an unsuspected side effect, or at least, it
> has one we’ve not been told of before by anyone.
> That is that ibogaine lifts us up so high, giving us an artificial
> feeling of indestructability and joy, then gives us a crash- JUST LIKE
> COCAINE DOES, only this one come harder, much, much harder after a much
> longer time- and LASTS a LOT longer than any cocaine crash I’ve ever
> experienced.
> (This is just my suspicions about what I’m going through, as I’ve
> already noted, no one has ever mentioned this here on list or to my face or
> in print ever to the best of my recollection- or at least that I’ve ever
> seen or heard.)
> I was just talking to V about this minutes ago actually.
> I have been feeling “shitty” for what feels like weeks now, and though
> much of it I think stems from all my tooth and other pain problems, I also
> have come to the conclusion that this is something that HAS to be noted by
> providers and suppliers to addicts of ibogaine. “Hey, in a few weeks yer
> gonna crash really, really, really hard so be prepared.” Maybe this is why
> the aftercare was so heavily stressed? But if so, and someone at all knew
> this lay ahead, I’d have appreciated a bit of warning, not an oblique “you
> should get aftercare friend.”
> 😉
> I mean, I’ve been feelings grumpy, angry, irritated, and morbid. I’ve
> not been able to keep a rosy view of anything at all really, even having the
> book in hand now. I’ve been feeling unfriendly, antagonistic, resentful and
> floundering, not towards anyone or anything in particular, just in general.
> Mood wise I mean.
> Sooo, would anyone with more experience care to pipe in here? Is this
> something others have experienced after doing ibogaine?
> I don’t think it’s the “normal” feelings of despair and depression I
> often must contend with, but rather something directly related to my
> ibogaine experiences. Maybe this is why boosters are so important? Or at
> least useful down the road, as they keep the crash at bay? And if this is
> really the case, isn’t there a danger here too, in that we might “have” to
> continue using ibogaine to stave off that crash, or at least get ready for
> it so we know what we’re experiencing so we won’t resort to other
> substances? It reminds me very much of people telling me not to quit smoking
> while kicking other drugs, as my mind and body won’t be able to tell what
> I’ve craving and will turn to familiar “fixes” to feel better.
> So Sean, feel free to call me if you’d like, or write on or off list. I
> can’t keep you from using but I can listen and empathize with you.
> In the end, it’s on you. None of us can make the decision to use or not
> to use for you- only you can do that. No matter what the reasons, it really
> is on you Sean. Even aftercare of the most professional sort will keep
> anyone from using that wants to use. Nor will ibogaine obviously. As I’ve
> always thought, the person has to really, really want to quit and really
> work at it to not use, that ibogaine is not a magic spell.
>
> Peace and love and respect and care and more love
> Preston
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: UUSEAN@aol.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:20 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] doin really shitty
>
>
> \
> Hey list,
>
> Just droppin a note to say that my life is headed down the damn toilet
> again, fast. Been using all weekend (crack and dope.) Spending money like
> mad, after a 60 hour work week. Have work tomorrow.
>
> The only bright side right now is that I am lining up a retreatment for
> about three weeks from now. Away, where I think it will give me better
> results. I am on the verge of tears right now. Very down. Looking for a
> ray of hope. I have not taken my HIV meds all weekend….could be passive
> suicide I don’t know.
>
> Anyway that cares please send a bit of hope my way. I am sinking fast.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 29, 2004 at 3:16:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martian,

It is safe to use both at the same time, but I usually wait four five days after the Ibo. Trip.normally you get them in a small box fresh which is the right dose,
You can see if they turn a little bluish then they are more potent.

S.
Van: Leah martian [mailto:martian_9@graffiti.net]  Verzonden: woensdag 29 september 2004 1:28 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Sarah,
I’m curious….how do you know what dose of mushrooms to give someone post Ibogaine, and at what hour mark would you consider safe to dose the mushrooms?
martian
:)  —– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt”  Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:58:01 +0200 To:  Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC
www.ibogatherapyhouse.org
—
_______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net  Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year!    Powered by Outblaze /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 29, 2004 at 3:16:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:41:42 -0700 tomo7@starband.net wrote:
The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening
jello of our adaptive habitual behavior patterns.

It seemed like my sense of self quivered like jello for two weeks before
I seemed to reach something firmly familiar in myself.

Since we are our patterns, seeing how arbitrary they are can be disquieting.

The Eye experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the
ideal jello mold for you to pour into for your souls best life
preference.

That free will thing.. patterns with free will?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine vs. Iboga: Questions about intensity and the trip
Date: September 29, 2004 at 2:07:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:07:58 -0700 Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
If you hold the root bark in your mouth for an hour you will not
taste it anymore

How does food taste when you can eat again?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Where to buy Ibogaine pills in Europe ?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 10:45:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis!
Welcome to mindvox Ibogaine list.
There are no wrong questions here as far as I know!
My name is Callie and I have been an opiate addict 25 plus years. I have been on Methadone since 1997.I have not experienced Ibogaine yet but I am planning and it seems my turn may be coming up soon!
There are very many qualified people here that will answer your technical questions.
I do not have the knowledge or experience to share right now. I can tell you I have been amazed by what I have read and experiences I have heard here on list. I am not going to name qualified folks cuz I will leave someone out. You will soon know who they are by just reading these posts.
Here are a couple of good links I started out with. There is a LOT of info. If you are like me you will be learning everyday!

http://ibogaine.co.uk/

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/index.shtml

Hope to see you posting a lot. BTW, you may have to cut and paste the above url’s.
Peace, Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rubbish!
Date: September 28, 2004 at 10:27:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,
Hi!
I really saw red flags when I read your last post!
You really need to get some space between you and your ex! Feeling protective of him is rationalization bullshit! I am really sorry if this seems too raw and bluntly honest but I really seen red lags when I read that post.
Also, if you are like me, you will continue to use if you remain around him. You are powerless to say no. You might once or twice or even three times but you will use with him again if you are close to him!!!
Your nice boyfriend does not deserve this I bet. You are both betraying his trust and I bet he would feel like you cheated on him if he found out, even if there was no sex. It is emotional cheating.
I know you say that he is unpredictable and self destructive but that is not your stuff! Even if he was your significant other it would not be something you could change. He has to change that. Two self-destructive people do not need to hang out together. You will both go down the tubes!
Good luck Hannah! Do you have some chick friends you could stay with awhile?
This is a life and death situation. (For both of you!) I am very concerned for you.
Keep us posted and try to remove yourself IMMEDIATELY!!
A chick friend, Callie

From: “Leah martian” <martian_9@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 7:28:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that crash after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

Leah Martin, Follow-up Coordinator
The Iboga Therapy House
Vancouver, BC
www.ibogatherapyhouse.org

—
_______________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net  Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year!    Powered by Outblaze /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:20:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/28/2004 6:51:46 AM Central Daylight Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
When you shoot at people who like to kill they become non violent and swinging.

lol! Great imagination he has, huh? Tell him to keep that line of thought and he will do well! Violence begets violence they say, so nonviolence begets nonviolence??? Makes sense to me!
Peace, Callie

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:15:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Dr. Tom. I would like to know more about your intellectual pursuits, education and/or experiences as it relates to ‘chemistry’. Obviously you need not answer me but I found much of what you stated….persuasive yet curious.

Regards,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] a new war device,
Date: September 28, 2004 at 6:04:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll help Sara except you are asking for people who possess a degree or knowledge in that science or related, correct? Still, I’ll help any way I can.

Love,

Julian

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:58:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.””

I have heard this before, it is remarkable we call ‘m magic mushrooms, I saw with my on eyes
How great is the benefit of using them to prevent that “crash” after the Ibo.
It also can be used as anti-depressant. and as muscle relaxer coming off methadone.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Open Letter (draft) to Kerry/Edwards for D.C. info zap
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:47:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We are appealing for a higher-level review of our request for
clarification as to whether your platform language calling for
“increased treatment” for drug addiction refers mostly to treatments
already in the SAMSHA pipeline, or whether it heralds a new, more
science-based commitment to explore research into more promising
approaches that could transform the way our society deals with its
drug problem.

During the Wisconsin primary, when Theresa Heinz Kerry came back and
asked for more literature on these medications, we were
heartened–only to encounter a conventional wisdom among staffers
that the only forms treatment that could be specified in the platform
without losing votes to Bush were “mandatory drug courts and
mandatory urine testing.” (Neither one of which is treatment.)

Over the summer our affiliates faxed this headquarters from Florida,
North Carolina, Ohio, Michigan, Minneapolis, Iowa, Missouri,
Arkansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Oregon and Washington–all
key battlefield states–about the first generation of broad-spectrum
addiction interrupters, derived from the African rainforest iboga
plant.

They understood that like many Americans, many folks in the
Kerry/Edwards campaign were simply unaware of this new class of
broad-spectrum pharmacotherapies for addiction that are NOT
maintenance drugs or blockers. A single dose or short course of
treatments with one of these alkaloids stops withdrawal and cravings
for opiates, nicotine, alcohol for months, or even years. Currently,
there is NOTHING else available to treat crack or crystal meth
dependency BUT Ibogaine. Recently, the New York State Office of
Alcohol and Substance Abuse Services (OASAS) put up its own webpage
touting the semi-synthetic form “18 MC”, invented by Stanley Glick (a
regular recipient of NIDA research grants) at Albany Medical College.
18 Methoxycoronaridine has none of the objectionable side-effects of
natural Ibogaine, is NOT scheduled, and is twice as effective for
nicotine (and potentially stimulant) addiction. (Ibogaine is banned
in the U.S.–but legal almost everywhere else in the world, including
Mexico and Canada.)

http://www.oasas.state.ny.us/AdMed/meds/fyiibogaine.htm

While we can accept that advocating treatment, not prison, may seem
like a tough sell in this campaign, people who are not familiar with
our slice of the electorate just don’t really understand how
important replacement of imprisonment with non-coercive treatment is
to our voters. The current platform language is making it really
hard to generate the enthusiasm to go out and really stump for Kerry
among the one or two per cent of the electorate who voted for Ralph
Nader or Harry Brown in 2000 because of their strong public
opposition to the Drug War.

All we asked from the campaign was a fig leaf–something–we can take
back to our people to get them to vote for Kerry enthusiastically,
not just grudgingly, so that all their friends turn out and vote for
him as well. We need more than the wink and nudge routine we got from
Clinton. ACT UP at least got Clinton to endorse needle exchange in
October of 1992–and that made a difference later.

Last week Christin Sewell, who works for Madhu Chugh your health
policy coordinator, told us the decision had been reached not to
refer the matter to anyone with sufficient authority to issue a one
sentence statement. We cannot accept Ibogaine being swept under the
rug. Not are lives being lost, VOTES will be lost for Kerry in
November. Do you really want to throw away hundreds of votes in all
the states where organizers took the trouble to fax you–when the
race could be decided in New Mexico or Wisconsin by a few hundred
votes?

What is needed with a breakthrough treatment like this is the kind of
bold White House initiative Richard Nixon displayed in implementing
methadone maintenance over the objections of the nay-sayers and “not
invented here” cadres of established bureaucracy. That initiative
should start with a commitment to order a review of the status of the
iboga alkoids BEFORE November 2, when it can still do some good.

If you can come out for stem-cell research, you can come out for the
next generation of drugs to treat addiction, and turn the promise of
treatment on demand into reality. Help us get the more than one
million people, who voted for Nader because he was for a progressive
drug policy, to vote for John Kerry.

Yours Respectfully,

Dana Beal, co-author, THE IBOGAINE STORY

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: doin’ really shitty- What Is I.??
Date: September 28, 2004 at 3:41:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mindvoxians, or Mindvegians,…voxarians, whatever:
Recent posts portray disappointment with Ibogaine as lacking the pleasures
and comforts in people’s preferred drugs of choice. Well, no shit
sherlocks! Dudes, dudettes, we should talk about what is Ibogaine?! I
haven’t seen it presented anywhere as a walk in the park, a better, longer
lasting drug high, not even as very fun.

I call it The Eye(for all the occult, cryptomasonic, and physiological
symbolism I can squeeze in). Preston can gripe about a false feeling of
invulnerability followed by a crash, and his experiences with heavier
opiates and other recreational drugs than I have aquired lend meaning and
value to his opinions. To me, the Eye is a brilliant eagle view of how
false and transient all drugged feelings are.

If our reality is that your suffering is in large part a creation of your
own mind and ego(with the willing help of some bad dealers and doctors),
which seems to fit my own limited observation of life in this cosmic
chicken farm, and legions of philosophers and gurus who have come before
seem to agree, how Would a clever seventh dimensional healer/trickster
plant ally show that to you without seriously bumming you out? Especially,
if a large part of your conscious life has been directed into creating
these mongo levels of suffering in yourself and others? For all the best
intentions, of course.

This hypothetical goddess/alien/ancestor would have an agenda. Perhaps?
Like if you want to explore your abundant luxurious estates here in 3_D
physicality, maybe like turn around the frigging binoculars and take off
the lens caps so they actually work? Or lose the dusty curtains in your
comfy bat cave of self pity and catch a little dawn sunlight in silence-
just to keep your bloated ego in it’s place now and then?

Don’t hear that I’m slamming list member’s very real traumas or making
light of their drug addict lifestyle travails. My family history and those
of my patients, friends, and clients would make that sarcastic putdown
hard to live with. It just seems that many of you don’t get what you’ve
got with the Eye. The Undrug.

I’ll tell you what I can’t prove or say for sure from my limited database
of personal experiences and observations of clients and reading. The human
spirit is well into an evolutionary trainwreck and extending ahead these
social trends of chemical lobotomies, psychiatric drug shackles, designer
plagues to criminalize our sexuality, radioactive ammunition deployment,
and the hedonic fog of commercial culture to dumb down everyone, well it
looks pretty bleak.

Anything there to be real warm and fuzzy about? Not hardly. Like most of
you, I prefer to escape all this that I can, however I can afford to. The
internet has been up there with library cards as a major save. Waking up
in Neo’s matrix creche with the bionic parasites serving up reality in
every orifice was a little too close to the bone to forget. Rent Matrix
One again and see what you think.

The Eye seems to be one of the few tools available to help the human
spirit survive this trainwreck. It seems to liquify the hardening jello of
our adaptive habitual behavior patterns. These behavior patterns are
ultimately normal and basically human, it’s just that for many of us they
have become self destructive or just soo…no longer helpful. The Eye
experience is not forever, and it doesn’t lay down the ideal jello mold
for you to pour into for your souls best life preference. All facilitators
stress the aftercare needed and the formulation of your intent to go into
and through this.

Many of you want this extract to be an OTC drug on your shelf to use for
self medication purposes. Go ahead and try the Undrug to see how it
compares to the pharmaceutical playground. Those chemical imitations of
botanical medicine that sell your little Dilbert cubicle of sensations and
emotions for a few hours or days, modern drugs. The Eye isn’t in the same
dimension, let alone on the same shelf of medications. Do experience the
distinction. Chase into all the jungles and mountains you can for those
distictions. Humanity sure needs your realizations and growth.

While the tool of self-reflection the Eye wields is a great one for
helping an addict recover the grace and balance of health so desired for
them by ancestors and fellow MindVoxians, it is not the only tool or
method out here to learn and use. The Eye has been described as opening
doors that you need to suck it up and decide to enter. That
permissive-enabling support is as good as it gets here in Free Will Town.

None of us can or should make other peoples decisions and actions for them
however much we love them. They are here for their own lessons of cause
and effect. Plenty have yet to hit their bottom, so to speak. Thanks for
all on this list sharing their ups and downs with the Eye. I’ve been
learning alot from you.

Dr. Tom

From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 2:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im gonna have to look into this. My therapist is getting ready to screen me for PTSD.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:16:46 -0400

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?

Persistent scientists believe ecstasy, psilocybin can help people
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,65025,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Psychedelic drugs are inching their way slowly but surely toward
prescription status in the United States, thanks to a group of persistent
scientists who believe drugs like ecstasy and psilocybin can help people
with terminal cancer, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic
stress disorder, to name just a few.

The Heffter Research Institute, the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies and others have managed to persuade the Food and Drug
Administration to approve a handful of clinical trials using psychedelics.
The movement seems to be gaining ground in recent years. Since 2001, the
FDA and the Drug Enforcement Administration have given the go-ahead to
three clinical trials testing psychedelics on symptomatic patients, and
several more are on deck.

Doctors who saw their patients benefit from psychedelic drugs back when
they were legal are dedicated to jumping through bureaucratic hoops and
diminishing the drugs’ party stigma to get psychedelics in patients’ hands,
and brains.

“I’m interested in the treatment being available to people who need it, and
doing it aboveboard and publishing good results,” said George Greer,
founder of the Heffter Research Institute, http://www.heffter.org/ a
scientific organization that organizes and funds trials involving
psychedelics.

At first blush, it seems like an uphill battle more challenging than the
one medical-marijuana advocates have been facing. MDMA has been vilified by
the National Institute on Drug Abuse http://www.nida.nih.gov/ and in news
stories, making it seem unlikely that federal agencies will ever allow the
legal use of psychedelics.

But it might actually be easier to get psychedelics through the approval
process than marijuana, according to Rick Doblin, founder and president of
MAPS. http://www.maps.org/ The roadblock with marijuana has centered on
supply. A government-controlled crop in Mississippi is the only marijuana
the government will allow in clinical trials. But the supply of
psychedelics is decentralized, and the researchers have control of much of
it.

Doblin’s persistence and know-how — he has a doctorate in public policy
from Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ — led to the launch of the first FDA-approved
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html clinical trial
testing MDMA as a therapy (in this case for post-traumatic stress disorder)
since the drug became illegal.

And now it looks like Doblin’s alma mater may be close to launching the
first psychedelic research that Harvard has allowed on its campus in almost
40 years. Two weeks ago, Dr. John Halpern, an associate director of the
substance-abuse research program at Harvard’s McLean Hospital, presented
his proposal for testing MDMA as a treatment for anxiety in terminal cancer
patients to an institutional review board — a body of scientists,
ethicists and community members — which approves and keeps tabs on studies.

“It feels like we’re getting close to opening the door to psychedelic
research at Harvard, which has been shut since 1965, so these are exciting
times,” Doblin said.

Halpern is also working with Bob Wold, a 51-year-old construction firm
owner who suffered from debilitating cluster headaches,
http://www.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~headache/cluster.html which are rare but brutal,
until four years ago when he tried psilocybin to treat them. Wold had never
used psychedelic drugs recreationally, and he was concerned and skeptical
about using an illegal substance. But he was in the midst of choosing
between three surgeries for his cluster headaches, each of which would have
cost about $35,000. One involved a gamma knife to cut into his brain; the
other two required holes drilled in his skull. Given those options,
psilocybin didn’t seem so radical.

“(The psilocybin) broke my cycle” of headaches, Wold said. “There is
nothing on the market now, and there never has been, that will actually
break a cycle.”

Achieving relief from his nightmarish pain spurred Wold to start a
movement. He now runs clusterbusters.com, where he communicates with about
200 other cluster-headache victims who have tried psilocybin to relieve
their pain. Wold has collected reams of data in the form of questionnaires,
which Halpern can present to Harvard’s institutional review board.

Studies http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_history.shtml
starting as early as the ’30s that showed positive results treating cluster
and migraine headaches with psilocybin and LSD helped Wold decide to try a
psychedelic. The studies also showed success with other disorders including
depression, alcoholism
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713 and addiction to
other drugs like heroin.

The Heffter institute’s Greer saw firsthand the effects of MDMA
http://www.maps.org/mdma/index.html#history on his patients in the early
’80s. He synthesized his own MDMA (it was first synthesized by Merck in
1912) along with Alexander Shulgin,
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/shulginbio.htm who became a cult
figure for psychedelic enthusiasts. In 1986, Greer and his wife, Requa
Tolbert, a clinical nurse, published the first and what is still the
largest body of data on the therapeutic effects of ecstasy.

Greer hoped eventually to discover the mechanism of MDMA, which stands for
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, and get it approved as a
prescription drug for certain ailments. But starting in 1985, the tone of
psychedelic research changed. Ecstasy had become a popular street drug, and
the DEA declared MDMA a schedule 1
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html drug, the highest level of
illegal drug in the United States. Anyone caught using or distributing
ecstasy, including doctors, would face fines and jail time, and Greer
stopped prescribing it for his patients.

“The government was funding a lot of research about abuse of psychedelic
drugs,” Greer said, “but no one was funding research to use them to
understand how the brain works or to treat people with psychological or
medical problems.”

Another reason progress has been slow is because NIDA-funded studies
performed by Dr. George Ricaurte and Dr. Una McCann found that MDMA had ill
effects on the brain. A 2002 study was particularly worrisome because it
showed that ecstasy caused Parkinson’s-like brain damage. But a year later,
the researchers retracted
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html the study because
they discovered they had accidentally used methamphetamine instead of
ecstasy.

In the wake of these controversial results, psilocybin, the active
ingredient in “magic mushrooms,” seemed more acceptable to the FDA and DEA.
Dr. Charles Grob, head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, tried for almost a decade to get the go-ahead
to perform a study using MDMA to treat anxiety in terminal cancer patients.
He got permission in the early ’90s to use the drug in a safety study on
healthy volunteers, the results of which were published in Behavioral Brain
Research in 1996, and the Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging in 1999.

But what he really wanted was to work with a patient population. When after
several years http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/mdmaucla.html neither the
FDA nor the DEA went for the idea, he changed his proposal.

“By the late ’90s felt it felt hopeless to work with MDMA because it had
gotten such a negative reputation, so we revamped the study to work with
psilocybin,” Grob said. “In 2003, it was accepted.”

Due to the strict guidelines for the study, however, only two patients out
of the 12 necessary to complete the trial have participated in the study,
and another is lined up.

Dr. Francisco Moreno at the University of Arizona has administered
psilocybin to eight obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. His study,
which began in 2001, was the first FDA-approved clinical trial involving a
psychedelic in 30 years. He presented positive results at a recent
scientific meeting, and is in the process of publishing his data in a
medical journal.

“I’m very optimistic for the future,” Grob said. “I think these compounds
have tremendous untapped potential to be utilized within medicine and
psychology. I think they need to be demystified, and safety parameters need
to be established and studied. But with good controls, I think they can be
used safely and effectively.”

Related Stories
DEA Accedes to Ecstasy Test Mar. 02, 2004
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,62506,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Why Ecstasy Researcher Is Smiling Sep. 12, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,60389,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Ecstasy Study Botched, Retracted Sep. 05, 2003
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60328,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Getting the FDA Hooked on Ecstasy Dec. 10, 2001
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,48547,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
Lucy In the Sky, With Therapists Nov. 09, 2000
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39796,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Where to buy Ibogaine pills in Europe ?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:48:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am new to this Mailing-list and I apologize if I ask the wrong questions.

– Is Ibogaine realy effective for detox of addictions ?
– Where can I buy Ibogaine pills in Europe.

Thank you
Francis

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Psychedelic drugs to get FDA OK?
Date: September 28, 2004 at 1:16:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com