Ibogaine List Archives – 2002-10

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Given pot laws, how honest are feds?
Date: October 31, 2002 at 11:02:46 PM EST
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Saturday, October 26, 2002

Given pot laws, how honest are feds?
Oct. 27, 2002 Orange County Register Reader Rebuttal

By Rick L. Root
The Westminster resident is operations manager for a machinery
manufacturer in Santa Ana.

In reference to the congressional call for an inquiry into what U.S.
officials knew about
al-Qaida threats before the Sept. 11 attacks, Audrey Wicks
rhetorically asks, “What
American in his right mind could have had such information and not
put out an alarm?”
[Letters, Oct. 16] – as if it were a given that our leaders are
incapable of considering
average citizens to be expendable. The question deserves much more than cursory
agreement to its implied rhetorical answer – not as an indictment of government
involvement but as a means to show that government is capable of such
callousness.

There are many who claim FDR knew of and allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor in
order to sway public opinion toward entering World War II. If true,
his administration
Even more compelling evidence exists that suggests LBJ was aware of the gross
inaccuracies in his Gulf of Tonkin speech, which served to escalate
our involvement in
Vietnam. Again, if true, leadership decided American lives to be
expendable in the
advancement of desired policy.

Of course, there are other examples that might indicate areas of our
government do
indeed consider citizens to be expendable for the advancement of
policy. But most of
us by nature will continue to trust those who lead us, and to dismiss
contrary claims as
loony conspiracy theories, until such time as irrefutable proof is
laid in our hands.

But for me and millions of other Americans, absolute proof is in our
hands. That proof:
marijuana.

Over the last four decades, marijuana use has become commonplace in America. In
that time, millions from all walks of life have used it
recreationally without harm. Its
medicinal qualities are recognized and taken advantage of by tens of
thousands of sick
and dying Americans who have found a non-toxic means of improving the
quality of
their lives. Yet government and most politicians from both parties
continue to refuse the
facts, both anecdotal and clinical, to promote and protect the
prohibition against and
the Class 1 scheduling of marijuana. They lie to us. Millions of
Americans know the
truth from years and years of first- and second-hand experiences with
the herb. The
lies are told to protect and advance policies, programs and business
dependent upon
its prohibition, which has caused great harm to millions of good
Americans. People
are expendable for the sake of desired policy.

Marijuana doesn’t kill. No one has ever died from its ingestion. Yet
government has you
believe otherwise. They would have you believe marijuana is addictive. Hardly.
Marijuana is being used successfully as a means of beating addiction
to drugs that kill,
such as alcohol. But don’t take my word for it or government’s.
Simply look around your
community. Where are the bodies that marijuana supposedly claims? Where are the
signs of harm? Look in your jails and prisons – there’s your harm. The harms of
marijuana are slight compared to the harms of marijuana prohibition.

Or look at the treatment of a local medical marijuana user. AIDS
patient Ross Embry of
Laguna Beach [“O.C. case a test for medical marijuana,” Local News, Oct.16] was
arrested for cultivating his medicine. Now he is suffering, and he
will suffer further – not
from the use of marijuana but from the government lies that prop up
its prohibition. Is
he expendable for the sake of the government’s desired policy?

“What American in his right mind could have had such information and
not put out an
alarm?” the letter-writer asked.

Good question, Ms. Wicks. Alarms are sounded yet apathy prevails. Or worse,
messengers are dismissed because the message is unpopular. The tyranny isn’t as
much that government boldly lies as it is that the majority blindly believes.
World – Reuters
————-

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 9:03:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ditto from the other list.

— J Callan <whitehaze@sympatico.ca> wrote:
After hearing your unfortunate story I am very upset
that vendors like this even exist. Obviously they
exist due to 100% profit by misrepresenting their
products. If you can venture to Canada I will offer
you an adequate amount of extract FREE.

You may reach us with the below information.
We will not under ANY circumstances ship to the US!

www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: steve diamond
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off

I recieived the address of Ethnoplanet from the
Ibo.uk site. They were the
only company willing to mail iboga root to the US.
Now I know why…It is
fake.

I was desparate, willing to try anything. I
started with a 5 gram order
thinking that it might be enough for a detox. I
send $35, which for me, at
this point, is a lot of money. I made all kinds of
special arrangements. You
can imagine how bummed out I was when very little
happened.

Next I ordered 75 grams for $340!!! I made a
simple ethanol extract using no
heat. I drank it and almost nothing happened.
Thinking I messed up the
extract (very difficult, I have a degree in
chemistry) I mixed the nasty
extracted root with creamed corn and ate 60 grams
of the shit. 30 minutes
later I fell asleep for an hour. I felt very
slightly buzzed but nothing
else. I had the worst stomach ache for three days.

It had no effect on my habit what so ever. Now I
am so depressed, I wish I
were dead. Those mother fuckers at Ethnoplanet
suck. They refuse to refund
my money and told me if I want to get high (the
last thing I want) I should
order mescaline from them.

Please, nobody should do business with those
fucking beat artist scumbags.
In my city, beat artists are dealt with in a very
unpleasant fashion. I feel
betrayed, stupid and very depressed. That was the
last bit of money I had.

Steve
Still strung out

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN
Broadband.

http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
ibogaine mailing list
ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 8:39:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have had identical experience with these people. Not shipped into the US but paying for something that doesn’t look to do anything at all. It may have some ibogaine content so I did not complain too much and then never tried iboga.nl. I have had very good results with indra.dk

I would be wary of dealing with anyone who is willing to ship direct into the US. There is a almost complete chance that they are only taking your money for nothing.

I did not post this before because I thought what Bill said, maybe the content is only very low. But now I have to say the same thing. Has anyone here had any positive results from ethnoplanet?

— steve diamond <stevediamond79@hotmail.com> wrote:
I recieived the address of Ethnoplanet from the
Ibo.uk site. They were the
only company willing to mail iboga root to the US.
Now I know why…It is
fake.

I was desparate, willing to try anything. I started
with a 5 gram order
thinking that it might be enough for a detox. I send
$35, which for me, at
this point, is a lot of money. I made all kinds of
special arrangements. You
can imagine how bummed out I was when very little
happened.

Next I ordered 75 grams for $340!!! I made a simple
ethanol extract using no
heat. I drank it and almost nothing happened.
Thinking I messed up the
extract (very difficult, I have a degree in
chemistry) I mixed the nasty
extracted root with creamed corn and ate 60 grams of
the shit. 30 minutes
later I fell asleep for an hour. I felt very
slightly buzzed but nothing
else. I had the worst stomach ache for three days.

It had no effect on my habit what so ever. Now I am
so depressed, I wish I
were dead. Those mother fuckers at Ethnoplanet suck.
They refuse to refund
my money and told me if I want to get high (the last
thing I want) I should
order mescaline from them.

Please, nobody should do business with those fucking
beat artist scumbags.
In my city, beat artists are dealt with in a very
unpleasant fashion. I feel
betrayed, stupid and very depressed. That was the
last bit of money I had.

Steve
Still strung out

__________________________________________________________
Outgrown your current e-mail service? Get 25MB Storage, POP3 Access,
Advanced Spam protection with LYCOS MAIL PLUS.
http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 8:11:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was it iboga _root_? If so, then of course it wouldn’t work,
right? The rootbark must be a tiny % of the weight, so no
ibogaine to speak of, but possibly lots of other unpleasant
alkaloids. So it might have been iboga, but root priced as
if it were rootbark.

Bill

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 8:00:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From “the other” list.

Brett
— steve diamond <stevediamond79@hotmail.com> wrote:
I recieived the address of Ethnoplanet from the
Ibo.uk site. They were the
only company willing to mail iboga root to the US.
Now I know why…It is
fake.

I was desparate, willing to try anything. I started
with a 5 gram order
thinking that it might be enough for a detox. I send
$35, which for me, at
this point, is a lot of money. I made all kinds of
special arrangements. You
can imagine how bummed out I was when very little
happened.

Next I ordered 75 grams for $340!!! I made a simple
ethanol extract using no
heat. I drank it and almost nothing happened.
Thinking I messed up the
extract (very difficult, I have a degree in
chemistry) I mixed the nasty
extracted root with creamed corn and ate 60 grams of
the shit. 30 minutes
later I fell asleep for an hour. I felt very
slightly buzzed but nothing
else. I had the worst stomach ache for three days.

It had no effect on my habit what so ever. Now I am
so depressed, I wish I
were dead. Those mother fuckers at Ethnoplanet suck.
They refuse to refund
my money and told me if I want to get high (the last
thing I want) I should
order mescaline from them.

Please, nobody should do business with those fucking
beat artist scumbags.
In my city, beat artists are dealt with in a very
unpleasant fashion. I feel
betrayed, stupid and very depressed. That was the
last bit of money I had.

Steve
Still strung out

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls!燝et MSN
Broadband.

http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
ibogaine mailing list
ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 7:46:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

2 more cents.

dl-phenylalanine (a &#34;required&#34; amino acid) is
likely to help your crack addict, this is aside from
the ibo issue. If you do an internet search on
&#34;phenylalanine AND cocaine&#34; (or
&#34;amphetamine&#34; or &#34;addiction&#34; and
phenylalanine). You could also look up &#34;depression
AND phenylalanine&#34; and there you will find it is
about as effective as the most commonly used psychotic
medications, (eg welbutrin, various SSRI’s). Most
people have no side effects, a few people will get
speedy – D-phenylalanine can be used instead of the
DL- flavor. Some people it doesn’t work, use tyrosine
instead of phenylalanine. They are precursors of major
neurotransmitters, epinephrine, nor-epinephrine,
dopamine… (I don’t have the exact details in my
head) and effectively treat some of the
post-withdrawal symptoms such as edginess. It is
subtle and may take weeks (to a month) to take effect
but it does work quite well, I still take it. Get it
in any health food store, about 6 bucks for 60.

With ibogaine it (dl-phenylalanine) seems to make the
recovery time quicker/easier, I couldn’t say
specifically if it does anything more than the obvious
(as stated above) when mixed with ibogaine in a crack
addict, it isn’t going to hurt.

Another amino acid &#34;tryptophan&#34; has been
reported to help mood and take some of what I call the
&#34;darkness&#34; out of opiate addicts ibogaine
treatment. You are using Milk with the ibo so that may
help mood. Tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin.

Melatonin is also used and can enhance mood as well as
help with post-ibo sleeping. People with SADDs
shouldn’t take melatonin – as I found out, makes me
depressed.

Another substance I have (and many others) used long
before ibogaine was Rescue Remedy, it is great for
emotional crisis, nice and calming. I never used it
with ibo but have for addiction a number of times – it
will mix with ibo quite safely. Come to think of it,
might be a good treatment for ibogaine induced
anxiety…  hummm, gotta try that one. Most
health-food stores would carry it. Very subtle, takes
the &#34;edge&#34; off, has zero side effects or drug
interactions.

Good luck.

Brett

— MARC &lt;marc420emery@shaw.ca&gt; wrote:
&gt; OK, I will start at a lower dose. I will let the
&gt; group know how this person
&gt; progresses.
&gt;
&gt; Today is the day.
&gt;
&gt; Marc
&gt; —– Original Message —–
&gt; From: &#34;Brett Calabrese&#34;
&lt;bcalabrese@yahoo.com&gt;
&gt; To: &lt;ibogaine@mindvox.com&gt;
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:15 AM
&gt; Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
&gt; administration
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; MARC
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; 2 cents
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Generally/historically a lower dose is used
for
&gt; &gt; non-opiate addicts, in the 12-15mg/kg range,
&gt; 20mg/kg
&gt; &gt; (18.8mg/kg) is getting up there high end
short
&gt; acting
&gt; &gt; opiate/low end methadone range.  In my case
it was
&gt; &gt; bumpped up to 18mg/kg because I am a hard
head
&gt; (you
&gt; &gt; didn’t notice that did you???). Yes, it is
&gt; different
&gt; &gt; form of ibogaine, in freebase format and I
suppose
&gt; you
&gt; &gt; are giving it over time and not all at once
like
&gt; last
&gt; &gt; time BUT IMO, it may be less necessary for
the
&gt; &gt; addiction itself than it would be for an
opiate
&gt; &gt; addiction.  The 1,700mg ibogaine AND 1,400mg
other
&gt; &gt; ibogaine alkaloids would likely have a)
synergy
&gt; &gt; together to be more potent than just 1.7gm
and B,
&gt; NOT
&gt; &gt; be 1.4gm of strictly other alkaloids – more
like
&gt; 1.4gm
&gt; &gt; other alkaloids and OTHER STUFF. Ibogaine is
or
&gt; can be
&gt; &gt; really rough, on the one hand larger and
repeated
&gt; &gt; doses are more effective (no doubt), on the
other
&gt; hand
&gt; &gt; risk and unpleasant side effects increase
with the
&gt; &gt; dose. Opiate addicte tend to have less
visions
&gt; than
&gt; &gt; non-opiate addicts, so your patient is more
likely
&gt; to
&gt; &gt; have more visions anyway, not that it
matters
&gt; much,
&gt; &gt; just saying.
&gt; &gt; You can (of course) start a tad lower in a
more
&gt; &gt; traditional dose range (acknowleding it is a
&gt; different
&gt; &gt; form of iboga) and bump it up a bit if
necessary –
&gt; an
&gt; &gt; option, not a suggestion. Keep in mind that
&gt; peoples
&gt; &gt; reaction to ibogaine is all over the place,
some
&gt; are
&gt; &gt; very sensitive, others are not.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; How were you planning on giving it, all at
once
&gt; with a
&gt; &gt; tester dose or split up like the last time?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You are the one at the &#34;front line&#34;
on this one,
&gt; you
&gt; &gt; are the one using this form of iboga (16X
freebase
&gt; &gt; extract), you are the one to evaluate the
&gt; patient…
&gt; &gt; That said your dosage seems a bit on the
high side
&gt; to
&gt; &gt; me – but again, I am unfamiliar with that
&gt; particular
&gt; &gt; flavor of iboga, just that it appears to be
about
&gt; &gt; 3/5ths as strong as ibogaine HCL, that
roughly
&gt; 25-30gm
&gt; &gt; of quality root bark is about the same as
1gm of
&gt; &gt; ibogaine HCL (though different), at 16X
&gt; concentration
&gt; &gt; 1gm of extract fits right in that 3/5ths –
TO ME,
&gt; FROM
&gt; &gt; FAR, FAR AWAY for which I can’t see for
myself…
&gt; &gt; Certainly, &#34;more will be revealed&#34;
to you on how
&gt; to
&gt; &gt; treat patients as well as this particular
iboga
&gt; &gt; extract (eg, maybe it doesn’t translate to
quite
&gt; &gt; 3/5ths as strong).
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Good luck
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; 3
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Good luck
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Brett
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; — MARC &lt;marc420emery@shaw.ca&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90
kg would
&gt; be
&gt; &gt; &gt; around 1,800 mg. The extract contains
about
&gt; 1,700
&gt; &gt; &gt; mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark.
Is there
&gt; a
&gt; &gt; &gt; reason why this dose, in your opinion,
is too
&gt; high?
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Marc
&gt; &gt; &gt;   —– Original Message —–
&gt; &gt; &gt;   From: Mundo Real
&gt; &gt; &gt;   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
&gt; &gt; &gt;   Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05
PM
&gt; &gt; &gt;   Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks
iboga
&gt; extract
&gt; &gt; &gt; administration
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;   Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700
mgs). Max
&gt; for
&gt; &gt; &gt; ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure
you have
&gt; your
&gt; &gt; &gt; numbers right.
Mundo.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;    MARC &lt;marc420emery@shaw.ca&gt;
wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     Our extract is administered for him
at 37
&gt; mg/kg.
&gt; &gt; &gt; He weighs 90 kilograms.
&gt; &gt; &gt;     3,130 mg. total dose (representing
1,700 mg.
&gt; &gt; &gt; ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
&gt; &gt; &gt;     iboga alkaloids).
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     By the way, I have a concern about
&gt; &gt; &gt; benzodiazipiam in the patients system.
I
&gt; &gt; &gt;     am advised by someone who went
through
&gt; Sara’s
&gt; &gt; &gt; clinic learning that these
&gt; &gt; &gt;     prescription drugs in the system
can induce
&gt; &gt; &gt; seizures, and if seizures pose a
&gt; &gt; &gt;     greater risk during iboga extract
&gt; &gt; &gt; administration, if the patient is a
long
&gt; &gt; &gt;     term user of benzodiazipiams.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     Marc Emery
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     —– Original Message —–
&gt; &gt; &gt;     From: &#34;Brett Calabrese&#34;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     To:
&gt; &gt; &gt;     Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24
PM
&gt; &gt; &gt;     Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks
iboga
&gt; extract
&gt; &gt; &gt; administration
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     &gt; &#34;Any particular advice in
dealing with
&gt; &gt; &gt; cocaine-only
&gt; &gt; &gt;     &gt; &gt; addicts?&#34;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;     &gt; FWIW, I was treated for coke
addiction
&gt; with
&gt; &gt; &gt; alcohol
&gt; &gt; &gt;     &gt; (no HotJobs – Search new jobs
daily now
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
__________________________________________________
&gt; &gt; Do you Yahoo!?
&gt; &gt; HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
&gt; &gt; http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mayoral Candidate Treating Addicts w. Ibogaine!
Date: October 30, 2002 at 6:13:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: HSL123@aol.com
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Subject: [IBOGAINE] Vancouver mayoral candidate provides ibogaine treatment
Sender: ibogaine-admin@lists.calyx.nl
X-BeenThere: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
Reply-To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-request@lists.calyx.nl?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine>,
<mailto:ibogaine-request@lists.calyx.nl?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: A mailing list to faciliate discussions of Tabernathe Iboga
– see http://www.ibogaine.org <ibogaine.lists.calyx.nl>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine>,
<mailto:ibogaine-request@lists.calyx.nl?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.calyx.nl/archives/ibogaine/>
X-Original-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:11:49 EST
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:11:49 EST
Status:

Vancouver’s mayoral candidate Marc Emory is not only calling for a response
to drug addiction but, actually treating addicts with an experimental
medication to make effective treatment a reality.  The text below is found on
his campaign web page <http://marc4mayor.com/>.  I anticipate this is a first
in political campaign history.

Howard

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: RE: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy— HELLO DANA!!!!
Date: October 30, 2002 at 6:05:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
X-Originating-IP: [12.236.29.74]
From: “adams, n.” <mdsterbal@hotmail.com>
To: sfr_mdowner564@hawkridgetech.com, hella_sick@excite.com,
sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: dana@cures-not-wars.org, viadyer@attbi.com
Bcc:
Subject: RE: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy— HELLO DANA!!!!
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:19:11 -0800
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2002 22:19:12.0734 (UTC)
FILETIME=[601B2FE0:01C28062]
Status:

hey MattD,

hell yes, 1994 counts!

My first ‘day party’ was on 1 May 1979, yes, *not* a typo, 1979,
when I ran away from my parents home, (bro, so sorry for the anguish
at home, but you know how crazy things were), and joined the
yippies! by attending their annual May Day Marijuania Day Parade in
Washington Square Park, with a March up 5th Avenue, (street i was
born on!!! Donald Trump ain’t got NUTHIN on me, sucka), with a Rock
Against Racism concert in Central Park that afternoon.

I fell asleep on a bus there and when I woke up in the morning the
first sight I saw as we drove by was the Washington Monument in DC
on our way to the Three Mile Island, No Nukes Rally.

(btw, my thinking hasn’t changed on the 420, but nuclear power is a
beautiful thing, and it’s not up for discussion, at least not with
me, you’ll be talking to a brick wall that naturally emits more
radiation than a cooling tower.)

After the rally, right before i got back on the bus I went for a
soda and the damn bus left w/out me stranding in DC with no money
and no friends.

oops.

I hitch-hiked back to NYC with a guy named Lester, who also dinn’t
get on the bus when he should have, and we made the 5 hour by car
trip in 7 hours via thumb, and arrived at the doorstep of Studio 10,
my on-again, off-again home for the next few years @ 10 Bleecker
Street, in NY’s East Village on the corner of the Bowery,
kittie-cornered from CBGB’s at 6am in the morning, where we were
greeted at the door by the yippies! in house para-legal, Dean,
totally naked and half asleep, since they had run him ragged the day
before at the DC protest.

He let us in and i gotta tell ya, Studio 10 was/is the prototype for
the warehouse parties we know and love today.

We were open at least 5 nights a week and we featured 3 bands for
three bux in this loft-like live work place that was so fun that it
never occured to me to go check out the acts @ CBGB’s.

doh!

my first exposure to the DMT i wrote about a while back, ocurred in
those environs, among many other things, which I then saw later on a
much larger scale when i started making our modern parties on and
off in 1998.

Apollo’s got Woodstock, I’ve got my daze in Studio Ten to cherish
and relive every party I go to today.

btw, the good people from that time and place are doing *THE*
cutting edge work today in addiction interruption, so if you know
any one that has issues with ‘powder-death’ drugs, look into the
ibogaine approach they’ve discovered.

FYI, Ibogaine is a *psychedelic!!!*

details are here:

http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html
and
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html

the life you save may be one you love.

as soon as I can afford it, i’m going to try this on my tobacco
addiction and since one guy is doing it in international waters in
the Carribbean, Howard Lotsoff, the man who discovered this on
accident, it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make….

nic

‘I believe in this, and it’s been tested by research,
He who fucks nuns, will later join The Church’

Strummer/Jones, LC, Death or Glory, 1979

From: “SFR_Mdowner564” <sfr_mdowner564@hawkridgetech.com>
To: <hella_sick@excite.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:33:46 -0800

Does attending frequent parties since 1994 count as a raver? I like to
think of myself more as a grumpy raver 🙂 What is up wit your reply?
It’s all cryptic 🙂

MattD

—–Original Message—–
From: :09 [mailto:hella_sick@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:12 PM
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy

really? are you a raver then?— On Tue 10/29, Delia Mendoza &lt;
velouria83@yahoo.com &gt; wrote:
From: Delia Mendoza [mailto: velouria83@yahoo.com]To:
justin.cloutier@attbi.com, sfraves@hyperreal.orgDate: Tue, 29 Oct 2002
17:51:42 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgydammit
just tease people with da orgy talk…get themall riled up…you know
these raver people arehorndogs come on! lol Delia— Justin Cloutier
wrote:&gt; Hey, not too bad here!!!&gt; &gt; -J&gt; &gt; —– Original
Message —– &gt; From: “Delia Mendoza” &gt; To: ; &gt; Sent: Tuesday,
October 29, 2002 5:21 PM&gt; Subject: Re: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat
Orgy&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; oooohh thanks :)&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Delia &gt;
&gt; — DeezzerRec@aol.com wrote:&gt; &gt; &gt; sorry, this was a bsp.
for a new release. a new&gt; &gt; &gt; song i just made called lets &gt;
&gt; &gt; have a phat orgy. go to your fav record store&gt; and&gt; &gt;
&gt; give it a spin &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; In a message dated
10/29/2002 5:00:26 PM Pacific&gt; &gt; &gt; Standard Time, &gt; &gt;
&gt; velouria83@yahoo.com writes:&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ? orgys are cool but huh?&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; — DeezzerRec@aol.com
wrote:&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; play it..play it..play it..play it!!&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
__________________________________________________&gt; &gt; Do you
Yahoo!?&gt; &gt; HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now&gt; &gt;
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;—————————————————————-
—–&gt; &gt; To unsubscribe, e-mail:&gt;
sfraves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org&gt; &gt; For additional commands,
e-mail:&gt; sfraves-help@hyperreal.org&gt; &gt;
__________________________________________________Do you Yahoo!?HotJobs
– Search new jobs daily
nowhttp://hotjobs.yahoo.com/——————————————–
————————-To unsubscribe, e-mail:
sfraves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.orgFor additional commands, e-mail:
sfraves-help@hyperreal.org

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

———————————————————————
To unsubscribe, e-mail: sfraves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
For additional commands, e-mail: sfraves-help@hyperreal.org

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access — and 2 months free!  Try MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 1:03:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, I will start at a lower dose. I will let the group know how this person
progresses.

Today is the day.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

MARC

2 cents

Generally/historically a lower dose is used for
non-opiate addicts, in the 12-15mg/kg range, 20mg/kg
(18.8mg/kg) is getting up there high end short acting
opiate/low end methadone range.  In my case it was
bumpped up to 18mg/kg because I am a hard head (you
didn’t notice that did you???). Yes, it is different
form of ibogaine, in freebase format and I suppose you
are giving it over time and not all at once like last
time BUT IMO, it may be less necessary for the
addiction itself than it would be for an opiate
addiction.  The 1,700mg ibogaine AND 1,400mg other
ibogaine alkaloids would likely have a) synergy
together to be more potent than just 1.7gm and B, NOT
be 1.4gm of strictly other alkaloids – more like 1.4gm
other alkaloids and OTHER STUFF. Ibogaine is or can be
really rough, on the one hand larger and repeated
doses are more effective (no doubt), on the other hand
risk and unpleasant side effects increase with the
dose. Opiate addicte tend to have less visions than
non-opiate addicts, so your patient is more likely to
have more visions anyway, not that it matters much,
just saying.
You can (of course) start a tad lower in a more
traditional dose range (acknowleding it is a different
form of iboga) and bump it up a bit if necessary – an
option, not a suggestion. Keep in mind that peoples
reaction to ibogaine is all over the place, some are
very sensitive, others are not.

How were you planning on giving it, all at once with a
tester dose or split up like the last time?

You are the one at the “front line” on this one, you
are the one using this form of iboga (16X freebase
extract), you are the one to evaluate the patient…
That said your dosage seems a bit on the high side to
me – but again, I am unfamiliar with that particular
flavor of iboga, just that it appears to be about
3/5ths as strong as ibogaine HCL, that roughly 25-30gm
of quality root bark is about the same as 1gm of
ibogaine HCL (though different), at 16X concentration
1gm of extract fits right in that 3/5ths – TO ME, FROM
FAR, FAR AWAY for which I can’t see for myself…
Certainly, “more will be revealed” to you on how to
treat patients as well as this particular iboga
extract (eg, maybe it doesn’t translate to quite
3/5ths as strong).

Good luck

3

Good luck

Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be
around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700
mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a
reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for
ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your
numbers right.                            Mundo.

MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:

Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg.
He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg.
ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about
benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s
clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract
administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with
alcohol
(no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 30, 2002 at 3:59:57 AM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com (Ibogaine)
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What’s more, they’ve got some fine swampland property in Florida (in
addition to several bridges) that may interest you.

Ethan

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

thanks, dude. i’m trying to crack this case. you’re in the ibogaine list
too, right? Dana, Brett, and Jon all gave some great info, andria, too,
that i’ve yet to look thru. these are definitely the people you’ve gotta
target.

Chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[>
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com | Andria E-Mordaunt ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-          |
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com             |
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format: drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]
<]=———————————————————————–=[>

From: drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 30, 2002 at 5:43:25 AM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com (Ibogaine)
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, I agree.  I may even phone in myself…from a pay phone.  🙂  (Not
that they don’t probably already have me on their list as a troublemaker.)

Ethan

Well, they may welcome comments even if they don’t listen to them …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net>

What’s more, they’ve got some fine swampland property in Florida (in
addition to several bridges) that may interest you.

Ethan

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

thanks, dude. i’m trying to crack this case. you’re in the ibogaine list
too, right? Dana, Brett, and Jon all gave some great info, andria, too,
that i’ve yet to look thru. these are definitely the people you’ve gotta
target.

Chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at
these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might
find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the
legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[>
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com | Andria E-Mordaunt ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-          |
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com             |
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format: drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]
<]=———————————————————————–=[>

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 10:15:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MARC

2 cents

Generally/historically a lower dose is used for
non-opiate addicts, in the 12-15mg/kg range, 20mg/kg
(18.8mg/kg) is getting up there high end short acting
opiate/low end methadone range.  In my case it was
bumpped up to 18mg/kg because I am a hard head (you
didn’t notice that did you???). Yes, it is different
form of ibogaine, in freebase format and I suppose you
are giving it over time and not all at once like last
time BUT IMO, it may be less necessary for the
addiction itself than it would be for an opiate
addiction.  The 1,700mg ibogaine AND 1,400mg other
ibogaine alkaloids would likely have a) synergy
together to be more potent than just 1.7gm and B, NOT
be 1.4gm of strictly other alkaloids – more like 1.4gm
other alkaloids and OTHER STUFF. Ibogaine is or can be
really rough, on the one hand larger and repeated
doses are more effective (no doubt), on the other hand
risk and unpleasant side effects increase with the
dose. Opiate addicte tend to have less visions than
non-opiate addicts, so your patient is more likely to
have more visions anyway, not that it matters much,
just saying.
You can (of course) start a tad lower in a more
traditional dose range (acknowleding it is a different
form of iboga) and bump it up a bit if necessary – an
option, not a suggestion. Keep in mind that peoples
reaction to ibogaine is all over the place, some are
very sensitive, others are not.

How were you planning on giving it, all at once with a
tester dose or split up like the last time?

You are the one at the “front line” on this one, you
are the one using this form of iboga (16X freebase
extract), you are the one to evaluate the patient…
That said your dosage seems a bit on the high side to
me – but again, I am unfamiliar with that particular
flavor of iboga, just that it appears to be about
3/5ths as strong as ibogaine HCL, that roughly 25-30gm
of quality root bark is about the same as 1gm of
ibogaine HCL (though different), at 16X concentration
1gm of extract fits right in that 3/5ths – TO ME, FROM
FAR, FAR AWAY for which I can’t see for myself…
Certainly, “more will be revealed” to you on how to
treat patients as well as this particular iboga
extract (eg, maybe it doesn’t translate to quite
3/5ths as strong).

Good luck

3

Good luck

Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be
around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700
mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a
reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for
ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your
numbers right.                            Mundo.

MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:

Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg.
He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg.
ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about
benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s
clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract
administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with
alcohol
(no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 30, 2002 at 5:38:14 AM EST
To: <vox@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, they may welcome comments even if they don’t listen to them …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net>

What’s more, they’ve got some fine swampland property in Florida (in
addition to several bridges) that may interest you.

Ethan

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

thanks, dude. i’m trying to crack this case. you’re in the ibogaine list
too, right? Dana, Brett, and Jon all gave some great info, andria, too,
that i’ve yet to look thru. these are definitely the people you’ve gotta
target.

Chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at
these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might
find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the
legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

From: Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 2:34:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think 20 mg/kg ibogaine hcl is too high of a dosing. That would equal 100 mg/kg of Indra 5:1 extract (what I am most familiar with). That setting would make a total dosing of 9,000 mgs (100 mgs x 90 kgs). Maximum dosing for the Indra extract is 5,000 mgs, which comes out to roughly 55 mgs/kg of Indra (5,000 mgs divided by 90 kgs) which comes out to roughly 11 mgs/kg ibogaine content. I believe the Lotsof procedure uses (or used) 1,000 mg of ibogaine hcl for addiction interruption. I would assume that 90 kgs would call for a heftier dose, but 20 mgs/kg seems a bit high. Maybe some other folks can chime in.                                                                                                                            Mundo.
MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700 mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your numbers right.                            Mundo.
MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg. He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg. ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

> “Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts?”
>
> FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
> (no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 2:04:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700 mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your numbers right.                            Mundo.
MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg. He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg. ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

> “Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts?”
>
> FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
> (no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

From: Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 11:05:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your numbers right.                            Mundo.
MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg. He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg. ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

> “Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts?”
>
> FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
> (not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
> HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
> test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t hit me
> enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
> drugs with no problems. The first was “booster” was
> needed (started having a hard time) at about 6 months
> but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by which
> time I started drinking somewhat.
>
> “will go for a high dose ”
>
> How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if you
> don’t mind… )
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>
>
> — MARC wrote:
> > Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days
> > since his last fix and he is doing well. This week
> > we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his
> > addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get
> > physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we
> > will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations
> > help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He
> > has 3 children, and we are dosing him at his
> > grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do
> > this on Wednesday.
> >
> > Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts? His health profile is excellent.
> >
> > Marc Emery
> >
> > P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
> > world and we are processing potential candidates as
> > well. We are getting an apartment where we can set
> > up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one
> > first aid training tomorrow.
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>
>

Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 29, 2002 at 7:51:54 PM EST
To: <vox@mindvox.com>, “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

thanks, dude. i’m trying to crack this case. you’re in the ibogaine list
too, right? Dana, Brett, and Jon all gave some great info, andria, too,
that i’ve yet to look thru. these are definitely the people you’ve gotta
target.

Chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 12:35:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nuthin important…just my Vcard.  I’ve removed it.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 10/29/02 08:54AM >>>
Rick

what was in the download, cos i was unable to open it?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (U.K)Class/Scedules(U.S.) of drugs
Date: October 29, 2002 at 10:33:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard

Heroin is a Class A drug (Equiv to U.S. Schedule 1) I believe. Ibogaine wasn’t scheduled at all till last year; hope it wasn’t our fault they found out about it and scheduled it! Far more likely to be related to the ‘special relationship American & English drug warriors’ have with each other..

Schedule 3/Class C drugs over here include some amphetamines, benzodiazepines, Ibogaine and soon cannabis.

Hope all is well in yr life

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

I head ibogaine was only going to be restricted to licenced herbalists. Is that untrue?

Dana/cnw

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 10:31:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe I am confused with the question.

NO, ibogaine will NOT cause seizures when mixed with
benzo’s, they have been safely used with ibogaine to
reduce anxiety during the experience and promote sleep
post ibogaine session.

It is when one is addicted to benzo’s (alcohol,
barbituates and some other drugs) that cause seizures
when their use is stopped, it is a manifestation of
the addiction to these substances.

Ibogaine (an “anti-addictive”) has been reported to
work on any addictive substance thrown at it so far,
including drug addictions that can cause seizures
(alcohol is the most reported). From what reports I
have seen no one has had a seizure post ibogaine
either because these substances are in the body or
they are being treated for addiction. Ibogaine in
LARGE doses can cause seizures but this usually only
happens if you are a lab rat and injected with near
lethal doses of ibogaine (oh, look, brain damage, I
wonder why!)

Brett

— Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, MARC wrote:

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam
in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s
clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration,
if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

I don’t know what interaction ibogaine and
benzodiazapines would have, but
it would strike me as odd if it would cause
seizures, as a number of
benzos are used as anti-seizure medications (e.g.
clonazepam, temazepam).

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander
userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness

http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html

————————————————————————–
“John Walters is a pathetic drug-war soul who is
defending a whole
catalog of horrors he’s indifferent to.”
–John Sperling

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 10:03:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, MARC wrote:

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

I don’t know what interaction ibogaine and benzodiazapines would have, but
it would strike me as odd if it would cause seizures, as a number of
benzos are used as anti-seizure medications (e.g. clonazepam, temazepam).

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“John Walters is a pathetic drug-war soul who is defending a whole
catalog of horrors he’s indifferent to.”
–John Sperling

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] $6m question
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:56:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Andria,

Does that mean that schedule 3 is not a severe schedule.  For instance, what
schedule is heroin in?

I believe the UK has three classifications, A, B, and C; A being the most
restrictive, C being the least restrictive. (Heroin is in A; cannabis was
downgraded this year from B to C)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:49:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

The short answer is ibogaine works for any addiction
(that i have seen so far) including benzo’s. So you
shouldn’t get seizures just like you shouldn’t get
seizures from an alcoholic being treated with ibo. I
have used and have known other addicts to use Dilantin
for mild post-withdrawal seizure like activity,
dancing feet, restlessness. Typically however
(non-ibo) the chance of seizures can go on long after
cessation of a drug such as alcohol, valium, other
benzo’s, barbituates the worst, seizures can happen
months later. IMO, that does not mean 100% of the ibo
patients you have will never get a seizure 100% of the
time just as some people experience withdrawals from
opiates, I would guess seizures may happen if you see
enough patients – though never heard of any happening.

Just some thoughts
Brett

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in
the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic
learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if
the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with
alcohol
(not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t
hit me
enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
drugs with no problems.  The first was “booster”
was
needed (started having a hard time) at about 6
months
but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by
which
time I started drinking somewhat.

“will go for a high dose ”

How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if
you
don’t mind… <g>)

Thanks,
Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7
days
since his last fix and he is doing well. This
week
we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says
his
addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t
get
physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him,
we
will go for a high dose and hope the
visualizations
help him understand his dependence on cocaine.
He
has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his
grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine).
We do
this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
world and we are processing potential candidates
as
well. We are getting an apartment where we can
set
up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level
one
first aid training tomorrow.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Benzodiazepine withdrawal/seizures can happen.
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:36:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc said;
By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc
If yr patient is not exhibiting any fits or seizures yet, he’s either still taking benzodiazepines (behind your back) – yoh U’all, don’t say I was the only one who did that in detox!! – OR his habit was not that big/long before he went into the Ibogaine experience.

To my knowledge, if he was going to have seizures, he may well have begun them by now, but others on this list may well know better

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:42:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t used the iboga extract on myself, Sara. Do you think I should? What is the benefit, do you think, of self-administering?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: sara glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Dear Marc ,

I find out that it isn’t so much the visualization that helps to understand one own addiction , it is more to do with the
awarness and will power of that person, state of mind or state of brainwashing he is .it isn’t true that the higher
the dose the better the visualization or better  treatment or better detox .it is the connection one has with
their own divinity that are causing the healing and not the amount of Iboga someone get,
some people get answers to their problems having no visualizations ,some have visualization they can’t connect
to, some people have deep emotional journey which isn’t fun , and some have only detox on a physical level .
all on the same dosage .
You can’t make sense of the iboga’s way , but you can ask for clear visions and clear answers .

have you taken the stuff you are administering ?

all the best ,

Sara

From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:46 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days since his last fix and he is doing well. This week we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:22:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

like a childrens’ toy called a “top,” something that spins around and around without falling over until it stops spinning. It was an interesting and not unpleasant sensation, and nothing whatsoever like the spinning sensation I get from drinking alcohol.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A

Dear Preston

What does ‘feeling like a top inside’ mean?

a

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:20:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Dana Beal wrote:

What about Montreal, and this opening in Windsor, where we can
majorly influence Conyers? We need something for the EAST.

Yeah we do!

(i’m in baltimore)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“John Walters is a pathetic drug-war soul who is defending a whole
catalog of horrors he’s indifferent to.”
–John Sperling

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (U.K)Class/Scedules(U.S.) of drugs
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:14:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/29/02 8:24:33 AM, AndriaE@aol.com writes:

Heroin is a Class A drug (Equiv to U.S. Schedule 1) I believe. Ibogaine
wasn’t scheduled at all till last year; hope it wasn’t our fault they found
out about it and scheduled it! Far more likely to be related to the ‘special
relationship American & English drug warriors’ have with each other..

Schedule 3/Class C drugs over here include some amphetamines,
benzodiazepines, Ibogaine and soon cannabis.

Andria,

If you goto <http://ibogaine.co.uk/new.htm> and scroll down to “Feb 9 2000 –
UK Coroner records death was caused by Tabernanthe iboga extract” (third
item) that appears to be the source of the scheduling of ibogaine.  The
effect of the scheduling being that normal sources of supply are no longer
open to the UK and that current treatments may not be able to occur as openly
as they have in the past.

Howard

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:12:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

after living nearly a year in Holland, all I could really do was order food and count. Learning the lingo didn’t ever seem very necessary while there, unlike in France, where it was most necessary.

The difference, as far as i understand it, is that most Dutch people like
Americans, while most French loathe ’em. (of course, thats a
generalisation, so please don’t yell at me.. =) )

most French people do actually speak English, at least in the major
cities; they just wont speak it to americans…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:56:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Preston

What does ‘feeling like a top inside’ mean?

a

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:54:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rick

what was in the download, cos i was unable to open it?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:33:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, ccadden wrote:

I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Technically, scheduling a drug under the Controlled Substance Act is
supposed to require an act of Congress; however there have been some
drugs, such as the recent addition of 2CT7, which have been scheduled by
an “Emergency Petition” by the DEA. Really, that’s unconstitutional, since
the Executive Branch (of which the DEA is part) isn’t supposed to make
laws, just enforce them; but no one has challenged that.

The pending Salvia legislation is currently on the floor in the House of
Representatives, although it is unlikely to be voted on this session. I
believe ibogaine was scheduled by Congress in 1966, along with LSD,
mescaline, and psilocybin.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] (U.K)Class/Scedules(U.S.) of drugs
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:23:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard

Heroin is a Class A drug (Equiv to U.S. Schedule 1) I believe. Ibogaine wasn’t scheduled at all till last year; hope it wasn’t our fault they found out about it and scheduled it! Far more likely to be related to the ‘special relationship American & English drug warriors’ have with each other..

Schedule 3/Class C drugs over here include some amphetamines, benzodiazepines, Ibogaine and soon cannabis.

Hope all is well in yr life

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 29, 2002 at 7:05:01 AM EST
To: “Schwann” <schwann@webtrance.co.za>, <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <Stews@radiks.net>, <foozleman@worldnet.att.net>, <bmasel@tds.net>, <heff01@email.msn.com>, <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, <PTPEET@cs.com>, <luxefair@bellsouth.net>, <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>, <prophets@maui.net>, <m.pilkington@virgin.net>, <PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG>, <delaneyw@shasta.com>, “Edward Jahn” <ejahn@barnard.edu>, <derlock@mailexcite.com>, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, “Mitchel Cohen” <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, <miriamwhite420@hotmail.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, “George Clayton Johnson” <hempjack@earthlink.net>, <axiom@greatmystery.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for this report. I just receieved small samples of some 10x, (organic and regular), from a friend and am waiting for just the right moment to give them a try.
Having tried it only once before, I can report that I was aware, in the limited effects I got, that there was a cat-like entity watching me from just above me and to my right, simply watching me, and inside my skin, my body felt like it was spinning, but not in a dizzy-inducing way. I got up and tried to walk across my apartment and felt like a top inside but completely solid outside. Very strange sensation and it didn’t last that long.
Schwann, you sound like you prepared some strong stuff there.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Schwann
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Cc: Stews@radiks.net ; foozleman@worldnet.att.net ; bmasel@tds.net ; heff01@email.msn.com ; kingfelix@mediaone.net ; PTPEET@cs.com ; luxefair@bellsouth.net ; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com ; prophets@maui.net ; m.pilkington@virgin.net ; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG ; delaneyw@shasta.com ; Edward Jahn ; derlock@mailexcite.com ; Andre Welling ; Mitchel Cohen ; MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I ; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com ; Nick Sandberg ; George Clayton Johnson ; axiom@greatmystery.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; warcry@indymedia.org ; Jay Statzer ; preston peet
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A

Schwann wrote:

Salvia divinorum,

So finally, after 10 years from the time that Sd featured in my
African Space Opera, my botanist editor actually did what was
written. He has grown, prepared, and smoked, 5g of Sd at his
farm. Some hours later, I got a phone call from him, and this is what
he said:

It all started with three tattered  rooted cuttings that barely made
the trip from overseas in the post. At the time I thought that I’m
probably the first person on the African continent that’s done this,
because seeds are practically unknown to this species, being only a
rare occurrence for them to flower, so fresh cuttings to survive a
two week journey through the post was already a miracle. Upon opening
the envelope, I immediately rushed them into R&R, which meant putting
them into peat moss in pots and then into ideal greenhouse
conditions. Fortunately, they responded well, and after six months I
had propagated more than 100  plants from the original three
cuttings.

I’d read  (on the Net) that you could chew it, like the Mazatecs, by
placing 20 pairs of leaves into a quid in the pouch of your mouth,
allowing the active ingredient, Salvinorin A, into the bloodstream
sublingually. This method proved unsatisfactory, and effects proved
only slightly detectable, compared to what happened later.
Some months later, again on the Net, I came across an extraction
protocol using acetone to extract the salvinorin from the leaves,
resulting in a 5X smokable extract, a leafy combustible material.
This turned out to be the right solution. A very smoothly smokable
substance it turned out to be.

Here’s what happened:

It was a mid-morning week day, everyone out to work or school, my
psychonaut friend and I embarked on a mission to evaluate, what
probably amounts to the first 5X extract of Salvia divinorum
processed in Africa. We did two experiments during a lovely sunny
morning. At first, we rolled a thinny with a pinch of the moist dark
green preparation and lit up, each taking 2-3 puffs. The effects at
this stage were similar to a batch of 10X I’d had tried previously
from a friend of mine in Oregon, so when the effects started coming
on, I recognised them in this context.

The power of the drug came at me from the left and proceeded to push
me over into the couch where I sort of waited it through and within
2-3 minutes I was able to laugh it off because I imagined my friend
being worried about my mental state. Then we talked about it, and a
half-an-hour elapsed till I was ready to go again. My friend said
he’d read that the active ingredient needed relatively high
temperatures to vaporise, and that this could only be achieved in a
pipe bowl, or bhong. We hunted one down, stuffed the bowl packed
tightly with about half-a-gram of 5X and proceeded to torch the
material. My friend took the first puff, me taking the second,
hotter, deep puff, and sure enough this is where it all started.

It was only a matter of a couple of seconds before I could actually
see IT/THEM coming into my  peripheral (left) vision or POV, like a
freight train coming around the corner heading straight for me.
Changing the analogy, it was also like I was gripped by my left arm,
and another hand grasping the scruff of my neck. It started pulling
me back, then around in a spiral. I imagined myself going back,
through the kitchen wall, being sucked into the kitchen cupboards,
but before I could get there it changed directions and wanted to take
me out through the front wall towards the outside of the house. The
whole while I was thinking to myself that my wife will come home and
find me DOA surrounded by paramedics. But back to what was happening.

The experience could also be compared to a wave of water coming down
a canyon, an unstoppable force equal to that of a tidal wave of some
kind of energy, a tsunami. I began to tumble from the force applied
and seemed to have one eye above water and THREE eyes below water: a
proportion of 25/75% vision/consciousness, the rest was, in an
analogy, ‘underwater’. I was totally unable to control my reactions,
it was too real, it was overwhelming, it was frightening. At that
stage I had no choice other than to go with the flow of being tumbled
down the vortex, like Alice in wonderland. It was only when it came
to the crunch that I had any choice, or so it seemed. Three quarters
though the turn of the vortex, or through the cycle of what was
happening, a fork in the path occurred and the vortex began to morph
into a split into the direction I wanted to go, and the direction
THEY wanted to go. They were pulling at me so hard that it felt like
my clothes were being ripped off my body. At this stage I had twisted
my body during the ‘turn’ and my head was on the ground while my feet
were pointing up toward a round hole of white light.  I clung on for
dear life,  pointing my feet towards the light while being pulled
with equal force by ‘them’ away from the light. They were pulling me
in a direction, downwards, where I didn’t want to go.  At this point
I interpreted the information as a choice between life and death . I
was represented in the light by my name in golden coloured letters. I
had hold of my name with the golden thread of my toes clutching
tenaciously with the thinnest hope to ‘reality’, though I’m not sure
if this was the right way up. At that moment I said to my inner
self, “Is this it? Is this what it feels like to die? Am I gonna
die?” What an inglorious way to go, getting found on the lounge floor
by my family clutching an ‘unknown substance’ in my hands. I said NO,
I can’t, there’s too much at stake. I know this sounds funny, but
believe me, at the time it was no laughing matter.

Meantime, through all of this, my friend has this shitty grin on his
face with ‘there’s nothing I can do’, plastered all over it, and I
see him as if in a TV monitor in the emergency room. “This is it, go
with THEM, there’s nothing I can do”, he seemed to say.

You may now ask, but who are ‘THEY’? Well, I’ve spent a few days
thinking about this, and have come to the conclusion that ‘they’
represent the ‘collective unconscious of authority’, or the super-ego
inside my head. It was at about this point, after I’d said ‘NO’ to
the image of death, microseconds later, that I came gently back and
found myself looking up at my friend. I remember asking him, “is it
OK, now”. I’d laughed the first time, but this time I did not laugh.
After being ‘underwater’ for some 4 minutes, it wasn’t like I had
much oxygen left for laughing.

Cape Town, 21st October 2002

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 5:53:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First, they round up all the village idiots.
Then, with much posturing and strutting, they devour mass quantities of
food in a tax-payer funded banquet.
At the same time, one of the more eloquent idiots stands up in front
and flaps his jaws, as all the others ignore him and gorge themselves at
the feeding trough.
The eloquent idiot then sits down and begins asking his colleagues, who
really weren’t listening, whether he did okay.  They each take turns
giving him strokes of high praise.

Afterward, they hang upon the wall a list of all substances that can be
conceivably called “psychoactive” or “hallucinogenic,” and they all take
turns throwing darts while downing glass after glass of alcohol.
…or so I’ve been told.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com 10/28/02 06:44PM >>>
I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia.
But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very
important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the
answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be
illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it.
Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my
hope
that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder
Dana
+
others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of
treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this
one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist; the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn from living here
the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it, but i hope so…
=)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html

————————————————————————-

“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 3:42:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Marc ,

I find out that it isn’t so much the visualization that helps to understand one own addiction , it is more to do with the
awarness and will power of that person, state of mind or state of brainwashing he is .it isn’t true that the higher
the dose the better the visualization or better  treatment or better detox .it is the connection one has with
their own divinity that are causing the healing and not the amount of Iboga someone get,
some people get answers to their problems having no visualizations ,some have visualization they can’t connect
to, some people have deep emotional journey which isn’t fun , and some have only detox on a physical level .
all on the same dosage .
You can’t make sense of the iboga’s way , but you can ask for clear visions and clear answers .

have you taken the stuff you are administering ?

all the best ,

Sara

From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:46 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days since his last fix and he is doing well. This week we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 12:49:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg. He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg. ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
(not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t hit me
enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
drugs with no problems.  The first was “booster” was
needed (started having a hard time) at about 6 months
but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by which
time I started drinking somewhat.

“will go for a high dose ”

How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if you
don’t mind… <g>)

Thanks,
Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days
since his last fix and he is doing well. This week
we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his
addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get
physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we
will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations
help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He
has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his
grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do
this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
world and we are processing potential candidates as
well. We are getting an apartment where we can set
up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one
first aid training tomorrow.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] $6m question
Date: October 29, 2002 at 12:07:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/28/02 7:00:33 PM, AndriaE@aol.com writes:

Let me see; we had the recent scheduling of Ibogaine in U.K into schedule
3,
(kinda like what they are in process of doing) with cannabis here too.
So
unlikely to be an arrestable offence anymore but …

Andria,

Does that mean that schedule 3 is not a severe schedule.  For instance, what
schedule is heroin in?

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 11:37:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— ccadden <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
I just asked this in another group, where we are
talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think
it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is
illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this
group knows the answer:

Controlled Substances Act

Full Text at link

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/cntrlsub/cntlsbb.htm

PART B – AUTHORITY TO CONTROL; STANDARDS AND SCHEDULES

ง 811. Authority and criteria for classification of
substances.

(a) Rules and regulations of Attorney General; hearing
The Attorney General shall apply the provisions of
this subchapter to the controlled substances listed in
the schedules established by section 812 of this title
and to any other drug or other substance added to such
schedules under this subchapter. Except as provided in
subsections (d) and (e) of this section, the Attorney
General may by rule –

(1) add to such a schedule or transfer between such
schedules any drug or other substance if he –
(A) finds that such drug or other substance has a
potential for abuse, and
(B) makes with respect to such drug or other substance
the findings prescribed by subsection (b) of section
812 of this title for the schedule in which such drug
is to be placed; or
(2) remove any drug or other substance from the
schedules if he finds that the drug or other substance
does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any
schedule.
Rules of the Attorney General under this subsection
shall be made on the record after opportunity for a
hearing pursuant to the rulemaking procedures
prescribed by subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 5.
Proceedings for the issuance, amendment, or repeal of
such rules may be initiated by the Attorney General
(1) on his own motion, (2) at the request of the
Secretary, or (3) on the petition of any interested
party.

(b) Evaluation of drugs and other substances
The Attorney General shall, before initiating
proceedings under subsection (a) of this section to
control a drug or other substance or to remove a drug
or other substance entirely from the schedules, and
after gathering the necessary data, request from the
Secretary a scientific and medical evaluation, and his
recommendations, as to whether such drug or other
substance should be so controlled or removed as a
controlled substance. In making such evaluation and
recommendations, the Secretary shall consider the
factors listed in paragraphs (2), (3), (6), (7), and
(8) of subsection (c) of this section and any
scientific or medical considerations involved in
paragraphs (1), (4), and (5) of such subsection. The
recommendations of the Secretary shall include
recommendations with respect to the appropriate
schedule, if any, under which such drug or other
substance should be listed. The evaluation and the
recommendations of the Secretary shall be made in
writing and submitted to the Attorney General within a
reasonable time. The recommendations of the Secretary
to the Attorney General shall be binding on the
Attorney General as to such scientific and medical
matters, and if the Secretary recommends that a drug
or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney
General shall not control the drug or other substance.
If the Attorney General determines that these facts
and all other relevant data constitute substantial
evidence of potential for abuse such as to warrant
control or substantial evidence that the drug or other
substance should be removed entirely from the
schedules, he shall initiate proceedings for control
or removal, as the case may be, under subsection (a)
of this section.

(c) Factors determinative of control or removal from
schedules
In making any finding under subsection (a) of this
section or under subsection (b) of section 812 of this
title, the Attorney General shall consider the
following factors with respect to each drug or other
substance proposed to be controlled or removed from
the schedules:

(1) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.
(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect,
if known.
(3) The state of current scientific knowledge
regarding the drug or other substance.
(4) Its history and current pattern of abuse.
(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.
(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.
(7) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.

(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of
a substance already controlled under this subchapter.
(d) International treaties, conventions, and protocols
requiring control; procedures respecting changes in
drug schedules of Convention on Psychotropic
Substances
(1) If control is required by United States
obligations under international treaties, conventions,
or protocols in effect on October 27, 1970, the
Attorney General shall issue an order controlling such
drug under the schedule he deems most appropriate to
carry out such obligations, without regard to the
findings required by subsection (a) of this section or
section 812(b) of this title and without regard to the
procedures prescribed by subsections (a) and (b) of
this section.
(2)
(A) Whenever the Secretary of State receives
notification from the Secretary-General of the United
Nations that information has been transmitted by or to
the World Health Organization, pursuant to article 2
of the Convention on Psychotropic Substances, which
may justify adding a drug or other substance to one of
the schedules of the Convention, transferring a drug
or substance from one schedule to another, or deleting
it from the schedules, the Secretary of State shall
immediately transmit the notice to the Secretary of
Health and Human Services who shall publish it in the
Federal Register and provide opportunity to interested
persons to submit to him comments respecting the
scientific and medical evaluations which he is to
prepare respecting such drug or substance. The
Secretary of Health and Human Services shall prepare
for transmission through the Secretary of State to the
World Health Organization such medical and scientific
evaluations as may be appropriate regarding the
possible action that could be proposed by the World
Health Organization respecting the drug or substance
with respect to which a notice was transmitted under
this subparagraph.
(B) Whenever the Secretary of State receives
information that the Commission on Narcotic Drugs of
the United Nations proposes to decide whether to add a
drug or other substance to one of the schedules of the
Convention, transfer a drug or substance from one
schedule to another, or delete it from the schedules,
the Secretary of State shall transmit timely notice to
the Secretary of Health and Human Services of such
information who shall publish a summary of such
information in the Federal Register and provide
opportunity to interested persons to submit to him
comments respecting the recommendation which he is to
furnish, pursuant to this subparagraph, respecting
such proposal. The Secretary of Health and Human
Services shall evaluate the proposal and furnish a
recommendation to the Secretary of State which shall
be binding on the representative of the United States
in discussions and negotiations relating to the
proposal.
(3) When the United States receives notification of a
scheduling decision pursuant to article 2 of the
Convention on Psychotropic Substances that a drug or
other substance has been added or transferred to a
schedule specified in the notification or receives
notification (referred to in this subsection as a
”schedule notice”) that existing legal controls
applicable under this subchapter to a drug or
substance and the controls required by the Federal
Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.)
do not meet the requirements of the schedule of the
Convention in which such drug or substance has been
placed, the Secretary of Health and Human Services
after consultation with the Attorney General, shall
first determine whether existing legal controls under
this subchapter applicable to the drug or substance
and the controls required by the Federal Food, Drug,
and Cosmetic Act, meet the requirements of the
schedule specified in the notification or schedule
notice and shall take the following action:
(A) If such requirements are met by such existing
controls but the Secretary of Health and Human
Services nonetheless believes that more stringent
controls should be applied to the drug or substance,
the Secretary shall recommend to the Attorney General
that he initiate proceedings for scheduling the drug
or substance, pursuant to subsections (a) and (b) of
this section, to apply to such controls.
(B) If such requirements are not met by such existing
controls and the Secretary of Health and Human
Services concurs in the scheduling decision or
schedule notice transmitted by the notification, the
Secretary shall recommend to the Attorney General that
he initiate proceedings for scheduling the drug or
substance under the appropriate schedule pursuant to
subsections (a) and (b) of this section.
(C) If such requirements are not met by such existing
controls and the Secretary of Health and Human
Services does not concur in the scheduling decision or
schedule notice transmitted by the notification, the
Secretary shall –
(i) if he deems that additional controls are necessary
to protect the public health and safety, recommend to
the Attorney General that he initiate proceedings for
scheduling the drug or substance pursuant to
subsections (a) and (b) of this section, to apply such
additional controls;
(ii) request the Secretary of State to transmit a
notice of qualified acceptance, within the period
specified in the Convention, pursuant to paragraph 7
of article 2 of the Convention, to the
Secretary-General of the United Nations;
(iii) request the Secretary of State to transmit a
notice of qualified acceptance as prescribed in clause
(ii) and request the Secretary of State to ask for a
review by the Economic and Social Council of the
United Nations, in accordance with paragraph 8 of
article 2 of the Convention, of the scheduling
decision; or
(iv) in the case of a schedule notice, request the
Secretary of State to take appropriate action under
the Convention to initiate proceedings to remove the
drug or substance from the schedules under the
Convention or to transfer the drug or substance to a
schedule under the Convention different from the one
specified in the schedule notice.
(4)
(A) If the Attorney General determines, after
consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human
Services, that proceedings initiated under
recommendations made under paragraph (FOOTNOTE 1)
(B) or (C)(i) of paragraph (3) will not be completed
within the time period required by paragraph 7 of
article 2 of the Convention, the Attorney General,
after consultation with the Secretary and after
providing interested persons opportunity to submit
comments respecting the requirements of the temporary
order to be issued under this sentence, shall issue a
temporary order controlling the drug or substance
under schedule IV or V, whichever is most appropriate
to carry out the minimum United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention. As a
part of such order, the Attorney General shall, after
consultation with the Secretary, except such drug or
substance from the application of any provision of
part C of this subchapter which he finds is not
required to carry out the United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention. In
the case of proceedings initiated under subparagraph
(B) of paragraph (3), the Attorney General,
concurrently with the issuance of such order, shall
request the Secretary of State to transmit a notice of
qualified acceptance to the Secretary-General of the
United Nations pursuant to paragraph 7 of article 2 of
the Convention. A temporary order issued under this
subparagraph controlling a drug or other substance
subject to proceedings initiated under subsections (a)
and (b) of this section shall expire upon the
effective date of the application to the drug or
substance of the controls resulting from such
proceedings. (FOOTNOTE 1) So in original. Probably
should be ”subparagraph”.
(B) After a notice of qualified acceptance of a
scheduling decision with respect to a drug or other
substance is transmitted to the Secretary-General of
the United Nations in accordance with clause (ii) or
(iii) of paragraph (3)(C) or after a request has been
made under clause (iv) of such paragraph with respect
to a drug or substance described in a schedule notice,
the Attorney General, after consultation with the
Secretary of Health and Human Services and after
providing interested persons opportunity to submit
comments respecting the requirements of the order to
be issued under this sentence, shall issue an order
controlling the drug or substance under schedule IV or
V, whichever is most appropriate to carry out the
minimum United States obligations under paragraph 7 of
article 2 of the Convention in the case of a drug or
substance for which a notice of qualified acceptance
was transmitted or whichever the Attorney General
determines is appropriate in the case of a drug or
substance described in a schedule notice. As a part of
such order, the Attorney General shall, after
consultation with the Secretary, except such drug or
substance from the application of any provision of
part C of this subchapter which he finds is not
required to carry out the United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention. If,
as a result of a review under paragraph 8 of article 2
of the Convention of the scheduling decision with
respect to which a notice of qualified acceptance was
transmitted in accordance with clause (ii) or (iii) of
paragraph (3)(C) –
(i) the decision is reversed, and
(ii) the drug or substance subject to such decision is
not required to be controlled under schedule IV or V
to carry out the minimum United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention,
the order issued under this subparagraph with respect
to such drug or substance shall expire upon receipt by
the United States of the review decision. If, as a
result of action taken pursuant to action initiated
under a request transmitted under clause (iv) of
paragraph (3)(C), the drug or substance with respect
to which such action was taken is not required to be
controlled under schedule IV or V, the order issued
under this paragraph with respect to such drug or
substance shall expire upon receipt by the United
States of a notice of the action taken with respect to
such drug or substance under the Convention.

(C) An order issued under subparagraph (A) or (B) may
be issued without regard to the findings required by
subsection (a) of this section or by section 812(b) of
this title and without regard to the procedures
prescribed by subsection (a) or (b) of this section.
(5) Nothing in the amendments made by the Psychotropic
Substances Act of 1978 or the regulations or orders
promulgated thereunder shall be construed to preclude
requests by the Secretary of Health and Human Services
or the Attorney General through the Secretary of
State, pursuant to article 2 or other applicable
provisions of the Convention, for review of scheduling
decisions under such Convention, based on new or
additional information.
(e) Immediate precursors
The Attorney General may, without regard to the
findings required by subsection (a) of this section or
section 812(b) of this title and without regard to the
procedures prescribed by subsections (a) and (b) of
this section, place an immediate precursor in the same
schedule in which the controlled substance of which it
is an immediate precursor is placed or in any other
schedule with a higher numerical designation. If the
Attorney General designates a substance as an
immediate precursor and places it in a schedule, other
substances shall not be placed in a schedule solely
because they are its precursors.

(f) Abuse potential
If, at the time a new-drug application is submitted to
the Secretary for any drug having a stimulant,
depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central
nervous system, it appears that such drug has an abuse
potential, such information shall be forwarded by the
Secretary to the Attorney General.

(g) Exclusion of non-narcotic substances sold over the
counter without a prescription; dextromethorphan;
exemption of substances lacking abuse potential
(1) The Attorney General shall by regulation exclude
any non-narcotic substance from a schedule if such
substance may, under the Federal Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.), be lawfully sold
over the counter without a prescription.
(2) Dextromethorphan shall not be deemed to be
included in any schedule by reason of enactment of
this subchapter unless controlled after October 27,
1970 pursuant to the foregoing provisions of this
section.
(3) The Attorney General may, by regulation, exempt
any compound, mixture, or preparation containing a
controlled substance from the application of all or
any part of this subchapter if he finds such compound,
mixture, or preparation meets the requirements of one
of the following categories:
(A) A mixture, or preparation containing a nonnarcotic
controlled substance, which mixture or preparation is
approved for prescription use, and which contains one
or more other active ingredients which are not listed
in any schedule and which are included therein in such
combinations, quantity, proportion, or concentration
as to vitiate the potential for abuse.
(B) A compound, mixture, or preparation which contains
any controlled substance, which is not for
administration to a human being or animal, and which
is packaged in such form or concentration, or with
adulterants or denaturants, so that as packaged it
does not present any significant potential for abuse.
(h) Temporary scheduling to avoid imminent hazards to
public safety
(1) If the Attorney General finds that the scheduling
of a substance in schedule I on a temporary basis is
necessary to avoid an imminent hazard to the public
safety, he may, by order and without regard to the
requirements of subsection (b) of this section
relating to the Secretary of Health and Human
Services, schedule such substance in schedule I if the
substance is not listed in any other schedule in
section 812 of this title or if no exemption or
approval is in effect for the substance under section
505 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21
U.S.C. 355). Such an order may not be issued before
the expiration of thirty days from –
(A) the date of the publication by the Attorney
General of a notice in the Federal Register of the
intention to issue such order and the grounds upon
which such order is to be issued, and
(B) the date the Attorney General has transmitted the
notice required by paragraph (4).
(2) The scheduling of a substance under this
subsection shall expire at the end of one year from
the date of the issuance of the order scheduling such
substance, except that the Attorney General may,
during the pendency of proceedings under subsection
(a)(1) of this section with respect to the substance,
extend the temporary scheduling for up to six months.
(3) When issuing an order under paragraph (1), the
Attorney General shall be required to consider, with
respect to the finding of an imminent hazard to the
public safety, only those factors set forth in
paragraphs (4), (5), and (6) of subsection (c) of this
section, including actual abuse, diversion from
legitimate channels, and clandestine importation,
manufacture, or distribution.
(4) The Attorney General shall transmit notice of an
order proposed to be issued under paragraph (1) to the
Secretary of Health and Human Services. In issuing an
order under paragraph (1), the Attorney General shall
take into consideration any comments submitted by the
Secretary in response to a notice transmitted pursuant
to this paragraph.
(5) An order issued under paragraph (1) with respect
to a substance shall be vacated upon the conclusion of
a subsequent rulemaking proceeding initiated under
subsection (a) of this section with respect to such
substance.
(6) An order issued under paragraph (1) is not subject
to judicial review.

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who
actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are
going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re
trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you
want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off
letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got
every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government
collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i
was building up my hope
that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote
Ibogaine) No wonder Dana
+
others work so funking hard to promote this
medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are
over, this form of
treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least
Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best
could answer this one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist;
the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn
from living here the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it,
but i hope so… =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness

http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html

————————————————————————-

“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 28, 2002 at 11:24:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
(not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t hit me
enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
drugs with no problems.  The first was “booster” was
needed (started having a hard time) at about 6 months
but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by which
time I started drinking somewhat.

“will go for a high dose ”

How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if you
don’t mind… <g>)

Thanks,
Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days
since his last fix and he is doing well. This week
we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his
addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get
physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we
will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations
help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He
has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his
grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do
this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
world and we are processing potential candidates as
well. We are getting an apartment where we can set
up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one
first aid training tomorrow.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 28, 2002 at 11:02:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days since his last fix and he is doing well. This week we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

What about Montreal, and this opening in Windsor, where we can majorly influence Conyers? We need something for the EAST.

Danac/cnw

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:46:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days since his last fix and he is doing well. This week we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He has 3 children,  and we are dosing him at his grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:34:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

I know this doesn’t make sense.

What makes it illegal is the perception on the part of law makers
that some (young) people somewhere are using it to get high. “High”
means unauthorized access to higher consciousness. Because there is
no higher consciousness than support for a completely drug free
existence. All else is perjurious. An illegal lie. In their minds.

Go ask the two Congresspeople who introduced the bill what their
subjective interpretation is.

BTW, DEA says this stuff has low potential for abuse because only one
in twenty people do it more than once. Their law was designed to
prohibit pot, you see, or LSD– which people DO want to do again.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:05:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

after living nearly a year in Holland, all I could really do was order food and count. Learning the lingo didn’t ever seem very necessary while there, unlike in France, where it was most necessary.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: sara glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

fine , but first you must learn the Dutch language,It is from a recorded radio programm,
and it is all in Dutch , As I said before and everybody knows they rather give Methadone then
Ibogaine , and they may think about it if Dr. Mash will say that it is safe enough .

But what is it to you ? You can go to Mexico and do it , A Dutch Junkie  has no possible way
to get Ibogaine treatment unless it is a programm given by the government which isn’t yet there.

I don’t get any  grants to help them , I gave 20% of the treatment  gratis and other 20% for the cost of the Iboga and the food , just because there is no other way out
for many people who don’t have the money .

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

Jehova writes checks? I want one!
I too would like to see this “evidence” that sara glatt mentions.
Peace,
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

> I have hard evidence to what I said .
>
> believe it or not .
>

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] seeking the truth ?
Date: October 28, 2002 at 8:02:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:40:26 -0800 sara glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Don’t worry Steve D. I don’t mind reading your post ,

the universal truth is in everything , but not everything is the
universal truth ,

listen /read /learn can be fun too . seeking to find out ?

if anybody has a problem with understanding a political plot ,

it is because it is the most normal thing in the world all the time
,

Dr.Mash isn’t doing anything that isn’t normal , it is all very
political .

a street junkie in Amsterdam is asking , why can’t I get Ibogaine
treatment

if it works so well ?

And this is for the questions
that don’t have any answers
The midnight glances
And the topless dancers
The gang of freaks
Cars packed with speakers
The G’s with the forty’s
And the chicks with beepers
The northern lights
And the Southern Comfort
And it don’t even matter
if your veins are punctured
All the crackheads, the critics, the cynics
And all my fucking heroes in the methadone clinics

All you bastards in the IRS
For the crooked cops and the cluttered desks
For the shots of jack and the caps of meth
Half pints of love and the fifths of stress
For the hookers all trickin out in Hollywood
And for my hoods of the world misunderstood
You can look for answers, but that ain’t fun
So get in the pit and try to love someone

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Schwann <schwann@webtrance.co.za>
Subject: [ibogaine] T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:17:17 PM EST
To: <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <Stews@radiks.net>, <foozleman@worldnet.att.net>, <bmasel@tds.net>, <heff01@email.msn.com>, <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, <PTPEET@cs.com>, <luxefair@bellsouth.net>, <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>, <prophets@maui.net>, <m.pilkington@virgin.net>, <PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG>, <delaneyw@shasta.com>, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, <derlock@mailexcite.com>, Andre Welling <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I <mutanex@aloha.net>, <miriamwhite420@hotmail.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, <axiom@greatmystery.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net>, preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schwann wrote:

Salvia divinorum,

So finally, after 10 years from the time that Sd featured in my
African Space Opera, my botanist editor actually did what was
written. He has grown, prepared, and smoked, 5g of Sd at his
farm. Some hours later, I got a phone call from him, and this is what
he said:

It all started with three tattered  rooted cuttings that barely made
the trip from overseas in the post. At the time I thought that I’m
probably the first person on the African continent that’s done this,
because seeds are practically unknown to this species, being only a
rare occurrence for them to flower, so fresh cuttings to survive a
two week journey through the post was already a miracle. Upon opening
the envelope, I immediately rushed them into R&R, which meant putting
them into peat moss in pots and then into ideal greenhouse
conditions. Fortunately, they responded well, and after six months I
had propagated more than 100  plants from the original three
cuttings.

I’d read  (on the Net) that you could chew it, like the Mazatecs, by
placing 20 pairs of leaves into a quid in the pouch of your mouth,
allowing the active ingredient, Salvinorin A, into the bloodstream
sublingually. This method proved unsatisfactory, and effects proved
only slightly detectable, compared to what happened later.
Some months later, again on the Net, I came across an extraction
protocol using acetone to extract the salvinorin from the leaves,
resulting in a 5X smokable extract, a leafy combustible material.
This turned out to be the right solution. A very smoothly smokable
substance it turned out to be.

Here’s what happened:

It was a mid-morning week day, everyone out to work or school, my
psychonaut friend and I embarked on a mission to evaluate, what
probably amounts to the first 5X extract of Salvia divinorum
processed in Africa. We did two experiments during a lovely sunny
morning. At first, we rolled a thinny with a pinch of the moist dark
green preparation and lit up, each taking 2-3 puffs. The effects at
this stage were similar to a batch of 10X I’d had tried previously
from a friend of mine in Oregon, so when the effects started coming
on, I recognised them in this context.

The power of the drug came at me from the left and proceeded to push
me over into the couch where I sort of waited it through and within
2-3 minutes I was able to laugh it off because I imagined my friend
being worried about my mental state. Then we talked about it, and a
half-an-hour elapsed till I was ready to go again. My friend said
he’d read that the active ingredient needed relatively high
temperatures to vaporise, and that this could only be achieved in a
pipe bowl, or bhong. We hunted one down, stuffed the bowl packed
tightly with about half-a-gram of 5X and proceeded to torch the
material. My friend took the first puff, me taking the second,
hotter, deep puff, and sure enough this is where it all started.

It was only a matter of a couple of seconds before I could actually
see IT/THEM coming into my  peripheral (left) vision or POV, like a
freight train coming around the corner heading straight for me.
Changing the analogy, it was also like I was gripped by my left arm,
and another hand grasping the scruff of my neck. It started pulling
me back, then around in a spiral. I imagined myself going back,
through the kitchen wall, being sucked into the kitchen cupboards,
but before I could get there it changed directions and wanted to take
me out through the front wall towards the outside of the house. The
whole while I was thinking to myself that my wife will come home and
find me DOA surrounded by paramedics. But back to what was happening.

The experience could also be compared to a wave of water coming down
a canyon, an unstoppable force equal to that of a tidal wave of some
kind of energy, a tsunami. I began to tumble from the force applied
and seemed to have one eye above water and THREE eyes below water: a
proportion of 25/75% vision/consciousness, the rest was, in an
analogy, ‘underwater’. I was totally unable to control my reactions,
it was too real, it was overwhelming, it was frightening. At that
stage I had no choice other than to go with the flow of being tumbled
down the vortex, like Alice in wonderland. It was only when it came
to the crunch that I had any choice, or so it seemed. Three quarters
though the turn of the vortex, or through the cycle of what was
happening, a fork in the path occurred and the vortex began to morph
into a split into the direction I wanted to go, and the direction
THEY wanted to go. They were pulling at me so hard that it felt like
my clothes were being ripped off my body. At this stage I had twisted
my body during the ‘turn’ and my head was on the ground while my feet
were pointing up toward a round hole of white light.  I clung on for
dear life,  pointing my feet towards the light while being pulled
with equal force by ‘them’ away from the light. They were pulling me
in a direction, downwards, where I didn’t want to go.  At this point
I interpreted the information as a choice between life and death . I
was represented in the light by my name in golden coloured letters. I
had hold of my name with the golden thread of my toes clutching
tenaciously with the thinnest hope to ‘reality’, though I’m not sure
if this was the right way up. At that moment I said to my inner
self, “Is this it? Is this what it feels like to die? Am I gonna
die?” What an inglorious way to go, getting found on the lounge floor
by my family clutching an ‘unknown substance’ in my hands. I said NO,
I can’t, there’s too much at stake. I know this sounds funny, but
believe me, at the time it was no laughing matter.

Meantime, through all of this, my friend has this shitty grin on his
face with ‘there’s nothing I can do’, plastered all over it, and I
see him as if in a TV monitor in the emergency room. “This is it, go
with THEM, there’s nothing I can do”, he seemed to say.

You may now ask, but who are ‘THEY’? Well, I’ve spent a few days
thinking about this, and have come to the conclusion that ‘they’
represent the ‘collective unconscious of authority’, or the super-ego
inside my head. It was at about this point, after I’d said ‘NO’ to
the image of death, microseconds later, that I came gently back and
found myself looking up at my friend. I remember asking him, “is it
OK, now”. I’d laughed the first time, but this time I did not laugh.
After being ‘underwater’ for some 4 minutes, it wasn’t like I had
much oxygen left for laughing.

Cape Town, 21st October 2002

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] $6m question
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:59:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris, everyone

And this sure is a tres important question.

Let me see; we had the recent scheduling of Ibogaine in U.K into schedule 3, (kinda like what they are in process of doing) with cannabis here too. So unlikely to be an arrestable offence anymore but …

Who? It’s basically a combination of people as far as I’m aware over here: The Chief medical Officer (to govt) and co ltd. I’m not an expert on this, though your question will cause me to research further over the next week, but as far as I’m aware, such a thing cannot happen without the issue going b4 our parliament ultimately, OR they just decide it without much discussion in there (as they did with cannabis). And the way that happened was through a funk of a lot of lobbying on our part, electoral pressure (from de people) and experts finally openly telling the govt that this substance was really not that dangerous. (Mind U they had done that 80yrs ago!)

A problem with all of this, is that governments change regularly, so for example IF they had not got cannabis rescheduled in statute (law) by the time another govt came in… we could actually have that decision reversed by the new govt. Unlikley but NOT impossible.

(Indeed, it could happen anyway..) i just happen to think it is unlikely at this stage because of all the MM marches, and the fact that rich/powerful people are beginning to support drug policy reform, not to mention the fact that this generation of politicians have for the most part, as opposed to popular opinion, inhaled!

andria x

I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:44:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my hope
that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder Dana
+
others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of
treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist; the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn from living here the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it, but i hope so… =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html


————————————————————————-

“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:37:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my hope that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder Dana +
others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist; the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn from living here the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it, but i hope so… =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:15:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my hope that we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder Dana + others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of treatment will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this one.

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:07:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

fine , but first you must learn the Dutch language,It is from a recorded radio programm,
and it is all in Dutch , As I said before and everybody knows they rather give Methadone then
Ibogaine , and they may think about it if Dr. Mash will say that it is safe enough .

As much as I respect Dr. Mash’s work, to the FDA, she is a nobody. Being
that you are not american, you may not understand the colossal mess that
is american politics. Everything in american politics is centred around
money, and most decisions are made because people with money lobby the
government.

The only way i can forsee ibogaine being approved by the FDA in the near
future (i.e. before a revolution) would be for someone to figure out a way
to make money off it. The best chances we have so far for this are Dr
Mash’s work with noribogaine, and Dr Glick’s work with 18-MC. Unlike
ibogaine, these substances could be patented, and ergo, a profit could be
made.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] seeking the truth ?
Date: October 28, 2002 at 5:40:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t worry Steve D. I don’t mind reading your post ,
the universal truth is in everything , but not everything is the universal truth ,
listen /read /learn can be fun too . seeking to find out ?

if anybody has a problem with understanding a political plot ,
it is because it is the most normal thing in the world all the time ,
Dr.Mash isn’t doing anything that isn’t normal , it is all very political .
a street junkie in Amsterdam is asking , why can’t I get Ibogaine treatment
if it works so well ?
It isn’t up to me , I said .

Sara

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Nothing 2 apologise for
Date: October 28, 2002 at 4:50:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice
From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Nothing 2 apologise for
Date: October 28, 2002 at 4:49:55 PM EST
To: stevediamond79@hotmail.com

Dear Steve

U didn’t upset anybody that I’m aware of.

It was just that i made a mistake, assuming that we were going to keep the focus of the Ibogaine list to things directly related to people’s treatment

Apologies to U

andria
Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 4:39:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am sorry if I upset anybody with my post about Dutch political affairs. Perhaps I am more sensitive because I work in political affairs television all day.

Steve

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:00:24 EDT

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access — and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 3:32:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear sara

I don’t think people are not believing U; i think it’s more a case of not quite uinderstanding what U r writing to us

What is it U have hard evidence for exactly?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 3:16:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

fine , but first you must learn the Dutch language,It is from a recorded radio programm,
and it is all in Dutch , As I said before and everybody knows they rather give Methadone then
Ibogaine , and they may think about it if Dr. Mash will say that it is safe enough .

But what is it to you ? You can go to Mexico and do it , A Dutch Junkie  has no possible way
to get Ibogaine treatment unless it is a programm given by the government which isn’t yet there.

I don’t get any  grants to help them , I gave 20% of the treatment  gratis and other 20% for the cost of the Iboga and the food , just because there is no other way out
for many people who don’t have the money .

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

Jehova writes checks? I want one!
I too would like to see this “evidence” that sara glatt mentions.
Peace,
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

> I have hard evidence to what I said .
>
> believe it or not .
>

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spelling!
Date: October 28, 2002 at 2:30:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

checks.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Spelling!

Yoh all – this is teacher Miss andria from London! Cheques is spelt like this in England – howz it spelt in U.S?

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine in Scotland
Date: October 28, 2002 at 1:54:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A query from a journalist working for the UK’s homeless mag, The Big Issue.
If anyone can help him, please mail him at the address given. He’s not on
the list.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: Liam McDougall <l.mcdougall@bigissuescotland.com>
To: <info@ibogaine.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: information

My name is Liam McDougall and I am a journalist at the Big Issue in
Scotland magazine. Obviously, being the type of magazine that we are,
we do come into contact with a large number of drug users –
especially heroin. I would be interested to know if there has been an
increase in the number of addicts who are turning to ibogaine as a
means of ridding themselves of addiction.
Would you know, for instance, if the number of Scots addicts going
down this route was increasing? Or would you be able to put me in
touch with anyone else who could help me with researching this topic?
All the best,
Liam

Liam McDougall
The Big Issue In Scotland
71 Oxford Street
Glasgow
G5 9EP

dd  0141 418 7053

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spelling!
Date: October 28, 2002 at 1:29:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

in England – howz it spelt in U.S?

Spelt? isn’t that a grain, like wheat?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Spelling!
Date: October 28, 2002 at 10:56:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yoh all – this is teacher Miss andria from London! Cheques is spelt like this in England – howz it spelt in U.S?

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 10:50:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jehova writes checks? I want one!
I too would like to see this “evidence” that sara glatt mentions.
Peace,
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

> I have hard evidence to what I said .
>
> believe it or not .
>

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 10:09:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

I have hard evidence to what I said .

believe it or not .

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 12:49:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have hard evidence to what I said .

believe it or not .

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

The Dutch government is a joke,The dutch people voted on a dead man
party, the Americans run the show anyway , When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA
that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction
then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen
to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to
make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should
she, for Sisko or Howard ? I doubt it .

Somehow I doubt just Dr. Mash’s say-so will get the FDA to do anything.
The FDA is largely led by the private interest of pharmaceutical
corporations, all it boils down to is money…

the Dutch government will not make it illegal because no one died
directly because of it and because they don’t know much about it ,

As far as I know, there have been three recorded ibogaine related
deaths…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] v o t e n o w a r
Date: October 27, 2002 at 9:19:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

its easy. its fast. its free.

http://www.votenowar.org

stop the oil mongers and their bloody campaign.

ibogaine related? war sucks for everyone.

-DH

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Bitching ain’t good 4 us.
Date: October 27, 2002 at 8:50:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ascending is all right 🙂 I must throw in my .2 cents here too. I know addiction is a bad thing and it’s hard to be positive while you are in it and I know a lot of the people reading this list are still stuck there. But nearly all the people posting were all once in the same place and got out of there. Being miserable and depressed doesn’t help any, if you need that then go to a 12 step meeting. More then enough depression there.

I thought the conference notes were funny shit too and did not get any great sense of malice out of it. It was funny and about as harsh as a celebrity roast. And every one of those people Dana, Patrick, Mash, has made the choice to be public figures who go around writing and saying whatever it is that they individually do. Nobody told them to go do that and I’m sure each of them has had their share of being knocked and can deal with it. If you can’t then maybe you shouldn’t be doing public speaking or write things that get read by a lot of people.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :
I’m still going more with what Jon said. A visit from
the humor fairy? 😉 would go a long ways to helping
more then a few people not take everything personally.
I think mr. ascending there is cynical and angry a lot
of the time but not all of the time and some of what
he posts may not be very nice but it’s funny. I LMAO
while reading his version of the conference notes. I’m
sure they are not a accurate description of Dana, PK
or Mash, but it was really funny without being overly
vicious.

I don’t have any idea where to get copies of the
London tape, I do know it exists maybe Mindvox should
stream the video? I’ve seen a copy of a tape which is
being passed around but it’s a very bad copy that is
probably taped from copies of copies. This one has
Dana Beal and Patrick Kroupa’s talks and some minutes
of John Pablo. Dana was very professional, didn’t
mention Philip K. Dick, smoking pot or anything.
Patrick was very charismatic and is a great speaker,
he talked about his life, heroin and ibogaine. I think
he spent 30 seconds on LSD when someone in the
audience asked him about that or ketamine, I forget
and don’t have the tape to view it again but neither
one was all over the place like they are in their
conversations here. And I think PK said “fuck” no more
then 10 times in an hour 😉

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
> ? writes
> I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets
> from SF to Seattle, $400 for
> hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up
> that price? Here’s my
> version of the scheduled event 🙂
>
> Andria responds:
>
> There are people on this list who can fund such
> trips to conferences, for
> serious activists and treatment advocates. Sadly U r
> not one of them; did we
> really need to hear all this oddness about Dana, PK
> and Mash again. More to
> the point – did it help U to dump it here? (Cos if
> not,) I’m answering 200
> e’s a day, and really don’t have time 4 all this
>
> PLEASE respect the fact that most of us on the list
> are working 20/7 trying
> to make this world a better place for Drug Users
>
> Cheers
>
> andria
>
>
>
> Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
> Editor of the Users Voice

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 8:49:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

possibly “pitocin or methergine (medical synthetics to stop uterine hemorrage)” acording to someone else, but again, I am not sure of that.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

> http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
> Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
> Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months
>
> POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002
>
> MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.
>

any idea what the drug in question was?

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 8:44:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

nope, sorry.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

> http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
> Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
> Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months
>
> POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002
>
> MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.
>

any idea what the drug in question was?

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bitching ain’t good 4 us.
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:53:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m still going more with what Jon said. A visit from
the humor fairy? 😉 would go a long ways to helping
more then a few people not take everything personally.
I think mr. ascending there is cynical and angry a lot
of the time but not all of the time and some of what
he posts may not be very nice but it’s funny. I LMAO
while reading his version of the conference notes. I’m
sure they are not a accurate description of Dana, PK
or Mash, but it was really funny without being overly
vicious.

I don’t have any idea where to get copies of the
London tape, I do know it exists maybe Mindvox should
stream the video? I’ve seen a copy of a tape which is
being passed around but it’s a very bad copy that is
probably taped from copies of copies. This one has
Dana Beal and Patrick Kroupa’s talks and some minutes
of John Pablo. Dana was very professional, didn’t
mention Philip K. Dick, smoking pot or anything.
Patrick was very charismatic and is a great speaker,
he talked about his life, heroin and ibogaine. I think
he spent 30 seconds on LSD when someone in the
audience asked him about that or ketamine, I forget
and don’t have the tape to view it again but neither
one was all over the place like they are in their
conversations here. And I think PK said “fuck” no more
then 10 times in an hour 😉

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
? writes
I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets
from SF to Seattle, $400 for
hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up
that price? Here’s my
version of the scheduled event 🙂

Andria responds:

There are people on this list who can fund such
trips to conferences, for
serious activists and treatment advocates. Sadly U r
not one of them; did we
really need to hear all this oddness about Dana, PK
and Mash again. More to
the point – did it help U to dump it here? (Cos if
not,) I’m answering 200
e’s a day, and really don’t have time 4 all this

PLEASE respect the fact that most of us on the list
are working 20/7 trying
to make this world a better place for Drug Users

Cheers

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:39:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, I have to agree with this. All of this started
when Vector posted some message that was less then
mature. What everyone everlooked except for Jane 😉
is he said he gave it some thought and then stopped.
Even when other people picked a fight with him and
called him gay he didn’t respond. So this one teenager
had more maturity then the entire group of people who
have kept this dead conversation going for the last
week.

Thank you Vector.

Carla B

— Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

Here puddycat, puddycat, GROWL!  Ok, Jon.  Jane

ehehe. thanx…. =)  sorry if i seemed a bit harsh,
but there’ve been a
lot bad vibes on this list, which i think could be
largely avoided if
people wouldn’t take everything everyone says quite
so seriously…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander
userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness

http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html

————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:34:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

Here puddycat, puddycat, GROWL!  Ok, Jon.  Jane

ehehe. thanx…. =)  sorry if i seemed a bit harsh, but there’ve been a
lot bad vibes on this list, which i think could be largely avoided if
people wouldn’t take everything everyone says quite so seriously…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:25:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months

POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002

MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.

any idea what the drug in question was?

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 1:46:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Ashley <ashley1980@iamwasted.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:56 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?

hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

Er, no, sorry. Though there are a few copies about. I haven’t looked at mine
yet as I hate seeing myself on video. The idea is that we’re going to copy a
load and sell them but if someone from one of the currently proposed
ibogaine conferences does this then I doubt I’ll bother.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Big brother…
Date: October 27, 2002 at 1:53:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <ascending@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Big brother…

That’s a nice start. I’ve seen that. They have pr starting in the palo
alto area. Nick Sandberg was not wrong.

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm

I wrote that piece after an ibogaine experience sometime in 99. It felt like
it was pretty much channelled really, quite a lot of people get channelling
experiences on iboga. Curiously enough, the effect is usually stronger when
you are just sitting for someone doing iboga. Most of the material for the
chapter on the occult I got whilst doing my tarot study group coursework
(which I was miles behind with at the time) in a room next to where my
brother was doing a big ibo session. It just drops out of the ether into
your head

Nick

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:18:39 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:
Hi all,

Big Brother made a step forward – thanks to FDA… And tomorrow
you’ll be
obliged by the law to have this chip implanted…

Mooooove while you can ;-))

Marko
/////////////////////////////////
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,55999,00.html

The maker of an implantable human ID chip has launched a national
campaign
to promote the device, offering $50 discounts to the first 100,000
people
who register to get embedded with the microchip.
Applied Digital Solutions has coined the tagline “Get Chipped” to
market
its product, VeriChip.
The rice-size device costs $200. Those implanted must also pay for
the
doctor’s injection fee and a monthly $10 database maintenance charge,
said
ADS spokesman Matthew Cossolotto.
The VeriChip emits a 125-kilohertz radio frequency signal that transmits

its unique ID number to a scanner. The number then accesses a computer

database containing the client’s file. Customers fill out a form
detailing
the information they want linked to their chip when they undergo
the
procedure, Cossolotto said.
Earlier this week, ADS announced that the FDA had ruled that the
VeriChip
was not a regulated device when used for “security, financial and
personal
identification/safety applications.”
The agency’s sudden approval of the microchip came despite an FDA

investigator’s concern about the potential health effects of the
device in
humans. (Microchips have been used to track animals for years.)
The company is marketing the device for a variety of security
applications,

including:
* Controlling access to physical structures, such as government
or private
sector offices or nuclear power plants. Instead of swiping a smart
card,
employees could swipe the arm containing the chip.
* Reducing financial fraud. In this scenario, people could use their
chip
to withdraw money from ATMs; their accounts could not be accessed
unless
they were physically present.
* Decreasing identity theft. People could use the chip as a password
to
access their computer at home, for example.
Cossolotto said ADS has gotten “hundreds” of inquiries from people

interested in being implanted.
Meanwhile, privacy advocates are wondering about the specter of
forced
chippings.
“(ID chips) are a form of electronic leashes, a form of digital
control,”
said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy

Information Center. “What happens if an employer makes it a condition
of
employment for a person to be implanted with the chip? It could
easily
become a condition of release for parolees or a requirement for
welfare.”
Rotenberg said EPIC has filed a Freedom of Information Request to
learn
more details about the FDA’s sudden approval of VeriChip.
The chip has also alarmed some Christians, who fear it is the biblical

“Mark of the Beast”; dozens of websites allude to the Satanic
implications

of the technology.
The company has consistently tried to allay such fears since the
chip
debuted in December 2001.
“It’s a voluntary device that we think has enormous utility,” Cossolotto

said. “This is intended for good purposes.”
ADS said seven health-care facilities, located in Arizona, Texas,
Florida
and Virginia, have signed up to distribute the chip, in addition
to
mobilizing a large bus the company has outfitted as a mobile “chipping

station.” Would-be customers can also register online.
The company plans to develop a prototype for an implantable GPS
ID chip by
the end of the year.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:52:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

The Dutch government is a joke,The dutch people voted on a dead man party, the Americans run the show anyway , When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should she, for Sisko or Howard ? I doubt it .

Somehow I doubt just Dr. Mash’s say-so will get the FDA to do anything.
The FDA is largely led by the private interest of pharmaceutical
corporations, all it boils down to is money…

the Dutch government will not make it illegal because no one died directly because of it and because they don’t know much about it ,

As far as I know, there have been three recorded ibogaine related
deaths…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:45:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here puddycat, puddycat, GROWL!  Ok, Jon.  Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:38:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

I’m sorry brett, and all, i knew when I said “crap” this challenge
would probably7 arise, and wished I hadn’t said it.  I give up.  I
surrender.  Women suck, and you all are right about everything.  Yay
for you.  Pussy, pussy, pussy.  that’s all we are.  Have fun. Jane

I think someone could use a visit from the Sense of Humour fairy….

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

“It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on Americans!”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:37:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DANA

Have U ever made an official application to OSI, or the Tides Foundation for money re Ibogaine-related activities?

After the Albuquerque DPA conference, i called Marsha Rosenbaum direct in Ca (director of the DPA West Coast), to ask her about something that happened at this conference, which was –  she looked like she was trying to stop somebody speaking  who wanted to promote this treatment. I gave her a look that coulda killed then noted that the chair of the session decided (he was in public view of everyone after all) to let the man ask his question, BUT the entire panel refused to even address/answer the question

That folks is prob.what U get when a very small no of people hold the purse-strings in the entire Reform/Treatment movement in America; I know what I’d do if I lived over there..

Anyways, I don’t – TG 4 me

Just to letcha know, and my guess is that this anecdote verifies Dana statement about OSI/Funding re Ibogaine

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Bitching ain’t good 4 us.
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:24:01 PM EST
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

? writes
I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets from SF to Seattle, $400 for hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up that price? Here’s my version of the scheduled event 🙂

Andria responds:

There are people on this list who can fund such trips to conferences, for serious activists and treatment advocates. Sadly U r not one of them; did we really need to hear all this oddness about Dana, PK and Mash again. More to the point – did it help U to dump it here? (Cos if not,) I’m answering 200 e’s a day, and really don’t have time 4 all this

PLEASE respect the fact that most of us on the list are working 20/7 trying to make this world a better place for Drug Users

Cheers

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Activists targeting prescribing docs/psychologists etc
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:17:36 PM EST
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Les wrote:
I suspect that an educational campaign from the Ibogaine advocates and activists targeted at this particular segment of the medical field could gain a much stronger lobbying effort for legitimization and legalization inside the U.S. than attempting to patent the treatment and sell the idea to the drug manufacturing concerns.

Andria replies:
Certainly that’s my take on it, and why we had Hattie write the article for a recent Users Voice mag. Then i posted that particular edition to many prescribers, but i must say that most of them, so far, are very much into the methadone orthodoxy as it is the MOST researched treatment for opiate addicts

Tnx for the direction Les

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 4:58:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Brett Calabrese wrote:

Alison,

“pussywhipped homosexual”, now there is a new one. It
sounds good but is an oxymoron, you can’t be pussy
whipped if you are gay. It requires interest in the
“pussy” as the term “pussy” is used to refer to women
and not another definition such as “that guy is such a
pussy”, or “here pussy, good kitty” and does not mean
the genitalia of a woman either or that women are
their pussys.

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped   adj   1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

OR

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Definition: Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman; dominated
by a woman.
Example: 1) Doug is pussy whipped by his
girlfriend–he does everything she tells him to.

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

hmmm. it could be a homosexual that’s obsessed with cats…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 1:22:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick and Marko. I’ve always had the impression both of you
are crazy, not stupid. Somebody is fucking with both of you.
Somebody reading this list who took the time to make the message
look like it was written by Marko.

This didn’t go through the ibogaine list, it went through private
email, so this person is reading the list and then sending emails to
people personally. This is coming out of a machine in czech
republic. Which is being connected to by a dialup so unless they are
making a big bill, this person is in the czech republic.

I would guess that in addition to making it look like the two of you
are sending something (I wonder what it could be) to each other,
there was a  attachment which hush automatically strips so I can’t
look at it but probably another outlook exploit.

From:    Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
To:  undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject:  Re: …on time
Cc:
Return-Path: <cyrus@imap3.hushmail.com>
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Return-Path: <info@zrcalo.si>
Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (smtp2.hushmail.com [64.40.111.32])
by imap3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE7E4482C2
for <ascending_40hushmail_2ecom@imap3.hushmail.com>; Sat, 26 Oct
2002 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])
by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 256441A95A; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Patrick (datela-1-5-6.dialup.vol.cz [212.20.98.185])
by smtp3.vol.cz (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g9QMDolB041104;
Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from info@zrcalo.si)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-Id: <200210262213.g9QMDolB041104@smtp3.vol.cz>
From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
Subject: Re: …on time
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”———-RRA1SW51N6QJ8QF”
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:13:50 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si> wrote:
<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
<iframe src=cid:Tc3fTHMGk5L8z height=0 width=0>
</iframe>
<FONT></FONT>
Hi Patrick,<br>
<br>
good to hear that snail-mail still works ;-)<br>
<br>
To organise a meeting, you have to provide places to sleep, places
to eat,<br>
conference room… And you’ll definitly need sponsors; try to get
some money<br>
from European Community and Open Society Institute (Soros), and
perhaps from<br>
more sponsors…<br>
<br>
<br>
Marko<br>
<br>
<br>
At 23:41 18. 7. 2000 +0
</BODY></HTML>

One clue is the ref to Soros. NO Soros-connected Drug Reform org
gives money for Ibogaine stuff. It could be some one who knows that
and is mocking you.

Maybe some one on the fringes of the Soros scene who wants to rub
y(our) noses in it.

Dana/cnw

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 11:30:40 AM EST
To: Iboga@guest.arnes.si, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/27/02 6:44:19 AM, Iboga@guest.arnes.si writes:

Or is it just that Brian Mariano’s computer has a nasty infection with
W32/Bugbear@MM (and perhaps something else, too), so he’s spreading this
virus all around the virtual world, and by the way making new E-mails from
different old ones, making up new E-mail accounts … I keep receiving
this virus from Howard – the only problem is that I don’t believe Howard is
@volny.cz ;-))
But this would mean that I’m not famous! <buuuh, I’m gonna cry :-((( >

I’m not sure of the fame thing but, I received the same virus from an account
in .cz that is not mine with the prefix to the @ sign being my email address.
Not from me!  The virus is easy to spot.  It comes as an attachment with
some html code at the top of the email text.  Whoever is running a windows
environment should not download or attempt to open these attachments.

Howard

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] A different take on the importance of leadership
Date: October 27, 2002 at 11:19:11 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “rootsofteror” <rootsofterror@yahoogroups.com>, “CRRH” <restore@crrh.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.drugwar.com/pwaltersleadership.shtm
“The Importance of Leadership”
[The following article is by rabid prohibitionist John Walters, director of
the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. This screed,
explaining why militaristic US prohibitionists say US taxpayers must help
pay for yet more DrugWar amongst and upon the people of Colombia and Mexico,
originally appeared in The Miami Herald on October 10, 2002. It is in the
public domain so there are no republication restrictions. All photos and
links giving a variety of alternative meanings Walters’ writing were added
by editor of DrugWar.com. Feel free to reprint.]
By John Walters
posted at DrugWar.com October 27, 2002

(photo)
US Drug Czar John Walters
Americans increasingly understand that our consumption of illegal drugs has
been an engine for corruption, violence, and underdevelopment in Latin
America. As with the drug problem generally, too many people have concluded
that these problems are intractable, and have written off hope for real
progress. But a string of recent elections and acts of political courage
should cause the cynics to sit up and take notice.
What we are witnessing right now in Latin America is nothing less than a
revolution in the way nations perceive the linkages between criminal and
political terrorism, drug trafficking, corruption, and weak government
institutions. Rather than meekly accepting these as facts of life, leaders
such as Mexico’s Vicente Fox and Colombia’s Alvaro Uribe are pushing back.
These developments present the United States with solid allies and hopeful
new opportunities.
snip-
Read Editorial and access multiple links at above URL
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 9:38:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:56:13 -0700 Ashley <ashley1980@iamwasted.com> wrote:
hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for
the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

I don’t know, but this looks good.

http://www.harmreduction.org/conference/day2.html

Ibogaine: Moving beyond Agonist/Antagonist/Maintenance Medications
Towards an Addiction Interrupter Model

Dana Beal Cures not Wars New York NY
Patrick Kroupa MindVox, Inc. New York NY
Deborah C. Mash University of Miami School of Medicine Miami FL

I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets from SF to Seattle,
$400 for hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up that
price? Here’s my version of the scheduled event 🙂

Dana Beal. I was the chief theoretician of YIPL…kind of the
Michael Suslov of the counter-culture. I ran the yippies, the white
panthers, the church of Phillip K. Dick and started the entire
smoking pot is my right movement before High Times ever existed. I
am the reason that High Times and Abbie Hofman even existed. And I
have been smoking pot longer then most of you have been alive.
Ibogaine is good too, but the failure of ibogaine treatment is that
people don’t start smoking pot right away after taking ibogaine. I
know everyone from the 60’s who has stayed alive and am the only
living person who is crazier then Patrick Kroupa. Having both of us
in the same room can cause rifts in time and space to open, which
brings me to the main subject of my speech, zero point gravity
physics and is Phillip K. Dick god or the son of god. Ibogaine is
good too but let me get back to Phillip K. Dick. Phillip K. Dick
invented pot by the way.

This is not my bio, or at least the one I submitted. I no longer even
smoke pot very much– and I think this makes light of the fact that
only 60 or 70 percent of addicts who do ibogaine get off drugs
successfully–whereas because the system of separating pot from hard
drugs in Holland, 100 percent of Dutch people who never start doing
heroin because of the coffee shop system are protected from negative
consequences of addiction.

Just a thought.

Dana/cnw

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FW: Request for information to include in Resident addiction cirriculum
Date: October 27, 2002 at 9:02:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone have ideas for addiction treatment material to
include in a residents cirriculum?

Thanks,
Brett

From another list.

“Greetings from Salt Lake City!  I hope all is well.
I am writing to the list for the collective wisdom and
suggestions for the following.  I have been put on a
committee to develop a cirriculum  for teaching
residents in training about addiction.  It will start
with internal medicine and family practice residents
then pediatric and ob/gyn residents and finally
psychiatric residents.  Please tell me what you think
would be helpful, what you do or have tried and where
you get your key source materials.  I thank you in
advance for your help!

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 7:37:50 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months

POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002

MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.

Frieda Miller, 47, was jailed for refusing to disclose the source of drugs that she illegally gave a new mother to slow bleeding after childbirth. She could serve up to six months.

Miller pleaded guilty in May to misdemeanor charges of attempted unauthorized practice of medicine and possession of dangerous drugs.
snip-

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:43:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, does this mean I’m famous, me too?? <feeling VERY proud, ovations>

Or is it just that Brian Mariano’s computer has a nasty infection with W32/Bugbear@MM (and perhaps something else, too), so he’s spreading this virus all around the virtual world, and by the way making new E-mails from different old ones, making up new E-mail accounts … I keep receiving this virus from Howard – the only problem is that I don’t believe Howard is @volny.cz ;-))
But this would mean that I’m not famous! <buuuh, I’m gonna cry :-((( >

Anyway, there are at least 4 Patricks in this world – 3 of them I know personally (though 2 of them already changed their names!), and I have seen some pictures of the 4th, am reading his e-mail – so he should exist, too!

Yeah!!

Marko

At 07:26 27.10.2002, you wrote:

Dear Patrick and Marko. I’ve always had the impression both of you are crazy, not stupid. Somebody is fucking with both of you. Somebody reading this list who took the time to make the message look like it was written by Marko.

This didn’t go through the ibogaine list, it went through private email, so this person is reading the list and then sending emails to people personally. This is coming out of a machine in czech republic. Which is being connected to by a dialup so unless they are making a big bill, this person is in the czech republic.

I would guess that in addition to making it look like the two of you are sending something (I wonder what it could be) to each other, there was a  attachment which hush automatically strips so I can’t look at it but probably another outlook exploit.

From:    Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
To:  undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject:  Re: …on time
Cc:
Return-Path: <cyrus@imap3.hushmail.com>
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Return-Path: <info@zrcalo.si>
Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (smtp2.hushmail.com [64.40.111.32])
by imap3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE7E4482C2
for <ascending_40hushmail_2ecom@imap3.hushmail.com>; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])
by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 256441A95A; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Patrick (datela-1-5-6.dialup.vol.cz [212.20.98.185])
by smtp3.vol.cz (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g9QMDolB041104;
Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from info@zrcalo.si)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-Id: <200210262213.g9QMDolB041104@smtp3.vol.cz>
From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
Subject: Re: …on time
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”———-RRA1SW51N6QJ8QF”
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:13:50 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si> wrote:
><HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
><iframe src=cid:Tc3fTHMGk5L8z height=0 width=0>
></iframe>
><FONT></FONT>
>Hi Patrick,<br>
><br>
>good to hear that snail-mail still works ;-)<br>
><br>
>To organise a meeting, you have to provide places to sleep, places
>to eat,<br>
>conference room… And you’ll definitly need sponsors; try to get
>some money<br>
>from European Community and Open Society Institute (Soros), and
>perhaps from<br>
>more sponsors…<br>
><br>
><br>
>Marko<br>
><br>
><br>
>At 23:41 18. 7. 2000 +0
></BODY></HTML>
>

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 2:26:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick and Marko. I’ve always had the impression both of you are crazy, not stupid. Somebody is fucking with both of you. Somebody reading this list who took the time to make the message look like it was written by Marko.

This didn’t go through the ibogaine list, it went through private email, so this person is reading the list and then sending emails to people personally. This is coming out of a machine in czech republic. Which is being connected to by a dialup so unless they are making a big bill, this person is in the czech republic.

I would guess that in addition to making it look like the two of you are sending something (I wonder what it could be) to each other, there was a  attachment which hush automatically strips so I can’t look at it but probably another outlook exploit.

From:    Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
To:  undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject:  Re: …on time
Cc:
Return-Path: <cyrus@imap3.hushmail.com>
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Return-Path: <info@zrcalo.si>
Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (smtp2.hushmail.com [64.40.111.32])
by imap3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE7E4482C2
for <ascending_40hushmail_2ecom@imap3.hushmail.com>; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])
by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 256441A95A; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Patrick (datela-1-5-6.dialup.vol.cz [212.20.98.185])
by smtp3.vol.cz (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g9QMDolB041104;
Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from info@zrcalo.si)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-Id: <200210262213.g9QMDolB041104@smtp3.vol.cz>
From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
Subject: Re: …on time
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”———-RRA1SW51N6QJ8QF”
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:13:50 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si> wrote:
<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
<iframe src=cid:Tc3fTHMGk5L8z height=0 width=0>
</iframe>
<FONT></FONT>
Hi Patrick,<br>
<br>
good to hear that snail-mail still works ;-)<br>
<br>
To organise a meeting, you have to provide places to sleep, places
to eat,<br>
conference room… And you’ll definitly need sponsors; try to get
some money<br>
from European Community and Open Society Institute (Soros), and
perhaps from<br>
more sponsors…<br>
<br>
<br>
Marko<br>
<br>
<br>
At 23:41 18. 7. 2000 +0
</BODY></HTML>

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Big brother…
Date: October 27, 2002 at 2:17:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s a nice start. I’ve seen that. They have pr starting in the palo alto area. Nick Sandberg was not wrong.

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:18:39 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi all,

Big Brother made a step forward – thanks to FDA… And tomorrow
you’ll be
obliged by the law to have this chip implanted…

Mooooove while you can ;-))

Marko
/////////////////////////////////
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,55999,00.html

The maker of an implantable human ID chip has launched a national
campaign
to promote the device, offering $50 discounts to the first 100,000
people
who register to get embedded with the microchip.
Applied Digital Solutions has coined the tagline “Get Chipped” to
market
its product, VeriChip.
The rice-size device costs $200. Those implanted must also pay for
the
doctor’s injection fee and a monthly $10 database maintenance charge,
said
ADS spokesman Matthew Cossolotto.
The VeriChip emits a 125-kilohertz radio frequency signal that transmits

its unique ID number to a scanner. The number then accesses a computer

database containing the client’s file. Customers fill out a form
detailing
the information they want linked to their chip when they undergo
the
procedure, Cossolotto said.
Earlier this week, ADS announced that the FDA had ruled that the
VeriChip
was not a regulated device when used for “security, financial and
personal
identification/safety applications.”
The agency’s sudden approval of the microchip came despite an FDA

investigator’s concern about the potential health effects of the
device in
humans. (Microchips have been used to track animals for years.)
The company is marketing the device for a variety of security applications,

including:
* Controlling access to physical structures, such as government
or private
sector offices or nuclear power plants. Instead of swiping a smart
card,
employees could swipe the arm containing the chip.
* Reducing financial fraud. In this scenario, people could use their
chip
to withdraw money from ATMs; their accounts could not be accessed
unless
they were physically present.
* Decreasing identity theft. People could use the chip as a password
to
access their computer at home, for example.
Cossolotto said ADS has gotten “hundreds” of inquiries from people

interested in being implanted.
Meanwhile, privacy advocates are wondering about the specter of
forced
chippings.
“(ID chips) are a form of electronic leashes, a form of digital
control,”
said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy

Information Center. “What happens if an employer makes it a condition
of
employment for a person to be implanted with the chip? It could
easily
become a condition of release for parolees or a requirement for
welfare.”
Rotenberg said EPIC has filed a Freedom of Information Request to
learn
more details about the FDA’s sudden approval of VeriChip.
The chip has also alarmed some Christians, who fear it is the biblical

“Mark of the Beast”; dozens of websites allude to the Satanic implications

of the technology.
The company has consistently tried to allay such fears since the
chip
debuted in December 2001.
“It’s a voluntary device that we think has enormous utility,” Cossolotto

said. “This is intended for good purposes.”
ADS said seven health-care facilities, located in Arizona, Texas,
Florida
and Virginia, have signed up to distribute the chip, in addition
to
mobilizing a large bus the company has outfitted as a mobile “chipping

station.” Would-be customers can also register online.
The company plans to develop a prototype for an implantable GPS
ID chip by
the end of the year.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 2:16:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:56:13 -0700 Ashley <ashley1980@iamwasted.com> wrote:
hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for
the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

I don’t know, but this looks good.

http://www.harmreduction.org/conference/day2.html

Ibogaine: Moving beyond Agonist/Antagonist/Maintenance Medications Towards an Addiction Interrupter Model

Dana Beal Cures not Wars New York NY
Patrick Kroupa MindVox, Inc. New York NY
Deborah C. Mash University of Miami School of Medicine Miami FL

I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets from SF to Seattle, $400 for hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up that price? Here’s my version of the scheduled event 🙂

Dana Beal. I was the chief theoretician of YIPL…kind of the Michael Suslov of the counter-culture. I ran the yippies, the white panthers, the church of Phillip K. Dick and started the entire smoking pot is my right movement before High Times ever existed. I am the reason that High Times and Abbie Hofman even existed. And I have been smoking pot longer then most of you have been alive. Ibogaine is good too, but the failure of ibogaine treatment is that people don’t start smoking pot right away after taking ibogaine. I know everyone from the 60’s who has stayed alive and am the only living person who is crazier then Patrick Kroupa. Having both of us in the same room can cause rifts in time and space to open, which brings me to the main subject of my speech, zero point gravity physics and is Phillip K. Dick god or the son of god. Ibogaine is good too but let me get back to Phillip K. Dick. Phillip K. Dick invented pot by the way.

Ending statement. George Bush is evil.
Theme music: Jefferson Airplane, Surrealistic Pillow

Patrick Kroupa, hardcore hacker turned hardcore junkie lowlife, turned most likely to bodily ascend into the light (purple of course) in the next 2 years. Yo, ibogaine is the fucking shit for getting you unsprung, it rocks but let me take an hour to kick it about lsd and godhead. So sit the fuck down and chill out because I will now proceed to talk like I spent half my life standing on a street corner and the other half getting 8 phd’s because my IQ is 300 points higher then you and no matter what you say I can beat you up with my mind. If that doesn’t work I’ll use a fucking tire iron in the parking lot you bitch. Spirituality is the shit man, godhead fucking rocks out and get you hella wasted dogg. I’m finishing a book, it’s called ‘Shooting up God’, it’ll be finished around when Mindvox opens. By the way Mindvox will open some time before the world ends. Time doesn’t exist anyway. Is the room melting or is that my mind again.

Ending statement. The fucking Treatment Pimps and Microsoft are evil. In no particular order, my mood changes a lot. Who is this George Bush person anyway?
Theme music: Nine Inch Nails, the Downward Spiral and King Crimson, In the Court of the Crimson King, played at random.

Dr. Mash. I am the greatest scientist who has ever lived. I have over 10,000 publications translated into every language in the world, which I have done personally. I expect to win at least 10 nobel prizes before I die. Last year I gave over 900 speeches on every subject in the world. I am smarter then you, my resume is better then yours, my clothes are better then yours, I am better then you. I am also appearing as this month’s centerfold for hotties in science. My research has proven without a doubt that ibogaine is very dangerous and must never be given under any conditions unless I’m the one selling it to you. Or you’ll die. If you’ve taken ibogaine from anyone but me and still lived then you’re going straight to hell. I have research that proves this too. I know that most of you are neither educated or wealthy, but feel free to treat me with the utmost respect or Patrick will kill you.

Ending statement. George Bush is evil.
Theme music: Puff Daddy, It’s all about the Benjamins

After the talks Dana Beal will smoke a lot of pot and everyone in the room with get a contact high whether they have their own or not and he will personally make Phillip K. Dick appear. Dr. Mash will answer your questions if youre wearing a good suit and worth at least 5 million (have notarized bank statement ready before approaching within 10 feet of Dr. Mash) and Patrick Kroupa will personally deliver salvation to every one of the 300 women who has written ‘oh my god you are so brilliant and sensitive and cute, every word you say is sheer genius!’ letters to this list in the last 6 months.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Ashley” <ashley1980@iamwasted.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 12:56:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: fertilizing iboga plants to set seed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 1:35:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>
Cc: “Chris King” <king@math.auckland.ac.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,

If anyone can answer Chris King’s message below, please cc a reply to him at
king@math.auckland.ac.nz

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: Chris King <king@math.auckland.ac.nz>
To: Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:35 AM
Subject: fertilizing iboga plants to set seed

Nick,

Does anyone on earth know how to get iboga plants to set seed.  I
have six plants but can’t find anyone on earth who knows how to get
them to set seed. The flowers have enclosed genitalia which prevents
them cross pollinating and they must use a small insect. This is very
important.  If we could set seed we could supply seed.

love, Chris

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine
Date: October 26, 2002 at 1:53:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Les Smith
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine

Note of Clarification:

Obviously Methadone, SSRIs, and other “maintenance” type treatments for substance mis-use produce long-term recurring income for the pharmaceutical industry.

Any inexpensive plant extract, that does not require an intensive research and development investment, and has the potential of achieving the same results with just a single dose or two every now and then, would not meet the objectives of the stockholders even if it were found to be “safe and effective” by the FDA.

I have always thought that it was a bit silly to administer an on-going regimen of drugs to get people off of other drugs. In light of the above, I suspect that since Ibogaine therapy appears to work best in conjunction with integrative medicine professionals, the appeal for legalization should come from the mental health industry instead of the pharmaceutical industry.

Since the licensed psychologists, psychiatrists, and other therapists would have a vested interest in generating fees for working with participants before, during, and after the Ibogaine experience, they would be the ones to convince that the need is real.

I suspect that an educational campaign from the Ibogaine advocates and activists targeted at this particular segment of the medical field could gain a much stronger lobbying effort for legitimization and legalization inside the U.S. than attempting to patent the treatment and sell the idea to the drug manufacturing concerns.

Les Smith
Founder & CFO
http://www.oasismountain.org
Oasis Mountain “OM” Wellness Center

Hi Les,

Knowledge of ibogaine’s existence and potential is widening considerably anyway. I don’t think there is any problem with targeting the right people to preach to, personally. It’s more a case of how information is received. The use of psychoactive substances for psychotherapeutic purposes has been established in the past but it’s still very much a grey area. And my experience is that a lot of people in the industry will just switch off once a few of the ibogaine buzzwords such as “psychoactive” “plant-based” or “fatalities” hit their limbic area – their background in psych seemingly not counting for much. A lot comes down to the attitude of government/culture and the practice of using these types of substance just isn’t adequately accepted yet in the West. The yanks lead the cultural blitz on them and, from the mails I get, I don’t see George Bush getting any softer yet-a-while.

Iboga-knowledge increases at a good rate and if there’s a conference in Paris this winter, as planned, it’ll be another vindication for the drug. These things take time, I guess.

Just a few random thoughts

Nick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Cannabis, iboga and bwiti
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:49:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I came across this, maybe it was posted.

Entheobotany II
by Reverend Damuzi, story and photos (06 Jan, 2002)
The world’s top psychedelic researchers met on the
mountain to share their visions

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2154.html

snip

“There are 5 nations and 19 tribes in which Buiti and
Iboga are used,” said Samorini in a heavy Latin
accent. “Fang Buiti is a mixture of
Byeri [ancestor
worship], traditional Buiti [which uses Iboga], and
Christendom.”

To make contact easier, the heads of their dead
relatives are kept in boxes in the temple. Samorini
laughed and told how tribespeople, hoping to fully
initiate him into the Byeri ritual, asked him if he
couldn’t get the head of one of his dead relatives for
the temple.

Other mind-altering plants also play big roles in
ancestor worship, and in the physical and spiritual
healing of the locals of Gabon. These plants, Samorini
discovered, go by the common name for sacrament, which
is “Ibogi.”

“Cannabis is one of the Ibogi,” revealed Samorini.
“Cannabis is used in Buiti and in other religious
cults. Not everywhere, but almost everywhere.”

Just what I need MOM’s head. “AND ANOTHER THING…”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] Big brother…
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:18:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Big Brother made a step forward – thanks to FDA… And tomorrow you’ll be obliged by the law to have this chip implanted…

Mooooove while you can ;-))

Marko
/////////////////////////////////
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,55999,00.html

The maker of an implantable human ID chip has launched a national campaign to promote the device, offering $50 discounts to the first 100,000 people who register to get embedded with the microchip.
Applied Digital Solutions has coined the tagline “Get Chipped” to market its product, VeriChip.
The rice-size device costs $200. Those implanted must also pay for the doctor’s injection fee and a monthly $10 database maintenance charge, said ADS spokesman Matthew Cossolotto.
The VeriChip emits a 125-kilohertz radio frequency signal that transmits its unique ID number to a scanner. The number then accesses a computer database containing the client’s file. Customers fill out a form detailing the information they want linked to their chip when they undergo the procedure, Cossolotto said.
Earlier this week, ADS announced that the FDA had ruled that the VeriChip was not a regulated device when used for “security, financial and personal identification/safety applications.”
The agency’s sudden approval of the microchip came despite an FDA investigator’s concern about the potential health effects of the device in humans. (Microchips have been used to track animals for years.)
The company is marketing the device for a variety of security applications, including:
* Controlling access to physical structures, such as government or private sector offices or nuclear power plants. Instead of swiping a smart card, employees could swipe the arm containing the chip.
* Reducing financial fraud. In this scenario, people could use their chip to withdraw money from ATMs; their accounts could not be accessed unless they were physically present.
* Decreasing identity theft. People could use the chip as a password to access their computer at home, for example.
Cossolotto said ADS has gotten “hundreds” of inquiries from people interested in being implanted.
Meanwhile, privacy advocates are wondering about the specter of forced chippings.
“(ID chips) are a form of electronic leashes, a form of digital control,” said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. “What happens if an employer makes it a condition of employment for a person to be implanted with the chip? It could easily become a condition of release for parolees or a requirement for welfare.”
Rotenberg said EPIC has filed a Freedom of Information Request to learn more details about the FDA’s sudden approval of VeriChip.
The chip has also alarmed some Christians, who fear it is the biblical “Mark of the Beast”; dozens of websites allude to the Satanic implications of the technology.
The company has consistently tried to allay such fears since the chip debuted in December 2001.
“It’s a voluntary device that we think has enormous utility,” Cossolotto said. “This is intended for good purposes.”
ADS said seven health-care facilities, located in Arizona, Texas, Florida and Virginia, have signed up to distribute the chip, in addition to mobilizing a large bus the company has outfitted as a mobile “chipping station.” Would-be customers can also register online.
The company plans to develop a prototype for an implantable GPS ID chip by the end of the year.

From: “Les Smith” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine
Date: October 26, 2002 at 11:54:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Note of Clarification:

Obviously Methadone, SSRIs, and other “maintenance” type treatments for substance mis-use produce long-term recurring income for the pharmaceutical industry.

Any inexpensive plant extract, that does not require an intensive research and development investment, and has the potential of achieving the same results with just a single dose or two every now and then, would not meet the objectives of the stockholders even if it were found to be “safe and effective” by the FDA.

I have always thought that it was a bit silly to administer an on-going regimen of drugs to get people off of other drugs. In light of the above, I suspect that since Ibogaine therapy appears to work best in conjunction with integrative medicine professionals, the appeal for legalization should come from the mental health industry instead of the pharmaceutical industry.

Since the licensed psychologists, psychiatrists, and other therapists would have a vested interest in generating fees for working with participants before, during, and after the Ibogaine experience, they would be the ones to convince that the need is real.

I suspect that an educational campaign from the Ibogaine advocates and activists targeted at this particular segment of the medical field could gain a much stronger lobbying effort for legitimization and legalization inside the U.S. than attempting to patent the treatment and sell the idea to the drug manufacturing concerns.

Les Smith
Founder & CFO
http://www.oasismountain.org
Oasis Mountain “OM” Wellness Center

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:44:47 AM
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine

Andria ,
I’m concerned that it is the ” same story” with many other health care issue’s inc. ibo. treatments .who do you believe ? Sara

Andria replies:

I believe U, and the many other100’s of activists that i’ve met around the world who have taught me that the compulsive nature of needing to accrue more power, money and prestige has made the pharmaceutical-multinationals into the voracious monsters that they have become. And yeh, as far as I’m aware, this does seem to be more endemic in the U.S. But Multi-NATIOANL means across many nations, so the rest of us are just as culpable, if we go along with it, which we do.

It’s the systems that humans have created that are corrupted often Sara. Why? Because we are essentially imperfect and rarely get things together without thinking selfishly.Yes of course, there are huge macro-politics in this, which i’m over-looking, but I do believe what i’m writing here is the essential problem
In a word: greed, (in this instance) made manifest through an economic system we call capitalism.

Gotta go swimming b4 pool closes

Good to reconnect with U again after all these yrs; wasn’t the last time we saw each other in the back of somebody’s car during a DPFoundation conf about 5 yrs ago?

andria x

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

 

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine
Date: October 26, 2002 at 11:44:12 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria ,
I’m concerned that it is the ” same story” with many other health care issue’s inc. ibo. treatments .who do you believe ? Sara

Andria replies:

I believe U, and the many other100’s of activists that i’ve met around the world who have taught me that the compulsive nature of needing to accrue more power, money and prestige has made the pharmaceutical-multinationals into the voracious monsters that they have become. And yeh, as far as I’m aware, this does seem to be more endemic in the U.S. But Multi-NATIOANL means across many nations, so the rest of us are just as culpable, if we go along with it, which we do.

It’s the systems that humans have created that are corrupted often Sara. Why? Because we are essentially imperfect and rarely get things together without thinking selfishly.Yes of course, there are huge macro-politics in this, which i’m over-looking, but I do believe what i’m writing here is the essential problem
In a word: greed, (in this instance) made manifest through an economic system we call capitalism.

Gotta go swimming b4 pool closes

Good to reconnect with U again after all these yrs; wasn’t the last time we saw each other in the back of somebody’s car during a DPFoundation conf about 5 yrs ago?

andria x

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine’s legal status and the politics.
Date: October 26, 2002 at 11:29:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria ,
The Americans who are many millions of people can give much more money to research , the Dutch who are only 16 millions
people will not give Grands for this kind research if the Americans already have a research going ,
they just wait for the FDA ,
just look how our health care system is ,
even after knowing this info. from Britain , the Dutch government had a vaccine campaign Andria , there was no epidemie in Holland !
Meningitis advisers funded by drug firms 

Fresh controversy surrounding Britain’s Meningitis C 
vaccination programme 

Martin Bright and Tracy McVeigh
Sunday September 3, 2000
The Observer 

Four of the medical experts advising the Government on whether the new meningitis C vaccine is safe have links to one or more of the drug companies that produce it, The Observer has discovered. 
The revelations, following last week’s report of a cover-up of suspected adverse reactions to the drug, has prompted concern among parents and MPs about conflicts of interest in the medical profession.
The Department of Health last night confirmed that Professor Janet Darbyshire, a member of the Government’s Committee on Safety of Medicines, had received support for academic research from US firms Wyeth and Chiron, who produce the two main meningitis products being used on children in Britain: Meningitec and Meninjugate. Darbyshire is professor of epidemiology at London University and director of the Medical Research Council. DoH officials also confirmed that three members of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation had declared interests in vaccine manufacturers.
One of them, Dr David Goldblatt of the Institute of Child Health, has served on an expert advisory panel for Wyeth and received research grants from Wyeth and North American Vaccines, which produces a third meningitis C drug to be introduced this year. Another, Professor Keith Cartwright of the University of Bristol, received funding from the drug industry to ‘evaluate candidate meningicoccal vaccines’. Exposure of the links between the advisers and drugs firms came as the Government’s Chief Medical Officer reacted strongly to last week’s Observer story of how information on possible adverse reactions to the vaccine was kept from parents. In a letter to The Observer, published today, Professor Liam Donaldson insists information on reactions to vaccinations is sent, on request, to members of the public, health professionals or MPs by the Medicines Con trol Agency. ‘There is not, and never has been, a “cover-up” over releasing information about reported deaths or suspected adverse reactions following meningitis C vaccine,’ he said.
This week every GP in the country will receive a statement from the chairs of the two committees, assuring them of the safety of the meningitis C vaccine. The statement, from Professor Alasdair Breckenridge of the Committee on Safety of Medi cines, and Professor Michael Langman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, updates information made public by The Observer last weekend about bad reactions to the new vaccine reported by GPs and nurses. It says there have been 16,527 reported adverse reactions from 7,742 patients, and 12 deaths. It reiterates that none of the deaths reported by GPs was found to be connected to the vaccine.
The statement ends: ‘The balance of risk and benefit is overwhelmingly favourable. There is no suggestion that this vaccine has led to any deaths. We strongly recommend that those due for vaccination should receive meningitis C vaccine.’ Latest figures show that more than 15 million doses of the meningitis C vaccine have been give to children and teenagers in the past 10 
months. Statistics from the Public Health Laboratory Service show that, in the 15-to-17-year-old group, in the last 12 weeks only six cases of meningitis were reported, compared with 26 in the same period last year. And in children under one year old, there was only one case reported in this period, compared with 19 in 1999. Incidences of meningitis continue to rise in those who have not been vaccinated.
Despite assurances that information on possible adverse reactions to the vaccine is freely available, parents calling the Medicines Control Agency told The Observer they were still being refused the data.
In north Somerset, one mother of a 13-year-old was told ‘it wasn’t necessary’ for her to have that information. ‘My son is about to have his vaccination and, after reading last week’s Observer that figures on adverse reactions existed, I wanted to see them. I believe I have a right as a mother to have all the information to hand when I make a decision,’ she said. She said the agency employee had told her: ‘Stories like this should really be taken cum grano salis – that’s a pinch of salt in English, madam.’ Another caller was told that the MCA did not have the information and referred her to her doctor. A third caller eventually managed to get a copy of the letter sent to GPs.
The figures collated by the agency are based on the ‘yellow card reporting scheme’. This seeks reports of suspected adverse reactions to drugs from health professionals. They are requested to submit reports of reactions whether or not it is clear that a drug or vaccine caused it. The 12 deaths reported under this scheme may be an underestimation, since only around 15 per cent of GPs and healthcare professionals use the yellow card scheme. The Department of Health believes that the reporting rate is higher where a new drug is involved.
The Liberal Democrat consumer affairs spokesman, Norman Baker, has tabled parliamentary questions about the financial interests of members of Department of Health advisory committees. He said last night: ‘This is a question of propriety. There must be enough independent people around to give advice without turning to those who clearly have a conflict of interests. I am not questioning their academic credentials, but with the best will in the world their judgments must be looked at in that context.’ Tory Health spokesman Liam Fox, a GP, said the Government must reassure the public.
The Secretary of State authorised the licence for the Wyeth vaccine, Meningitec, when the mass immunisation programme began last November, on advice >from the Committee on Safety of Medicines. The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation also recommended the vaccine. Wyeth spokesman Don Barrett said the amount of money paid to the academic departments of government committee members was confidential. Chiron, whose vaccine was introduced in April, stands to make $200 million from the NHS deal.
Last night the National Meningitis Trust, sponsored by Wyeth, was drawn into the controversy when it refused to disclose how much money it received >from the giant drug company. In a statement, Chief Executive Philip Kirby said: ‘We would refute in the strongest possible terms the suggestion that any information we provide is anything other than totally objective and the best available.’ This week Posh Spice Victoria Beckham revealed she had viral meningitis, a less serious type of the disease. After doctors ordered her to rest, she cancelled several appearances and flew home from Germany. Viral meningitis is an inflammation of the lining of the brain and usually clears up within a week or two without treatment.
***************
Eleven die after new vaccine jab

Martin Bright and Miles Barter
Sunday August 27, 2000
The Observer

The Government was last night accused of a cover-up over the
safety of its mass meningitis immunisation programme after The Observer obtained confidential documents that show at least 11 people have died after injections to prevent the disease.

Although doctors have reported the deaths as part of routine monitoring of effects of the vaccine to the Medicines Control Agency (MCA), the Government has not published the figures and last night insisted the programme was safe. Documents from the MCA obtained by The Observer show that since the immunisation programme began last year there have been more than 16,000 adverse reactions reported by GPs under the so-called Yellow Card system. The Department of Health estimates only 10-15 per cent of reactions are reported under the scheme so the real figure is likely to be far higher.

Britain is the first European country to introduce the vaccine. Although GPs have been told it cannot induce symptoms of meningitis, two of the deaths after vaccination have been attributed to ‘septicaemia meningicoccal’, the infection of the blood that results from the disease. Each year around 1,500 people contract meningitis C, with about 150 fatalities. The Government has said the programme had reduced cases by 70 per cent since it was introduced last year. So far 13 million babies, children and adults have been immunised. Shadow Health Secretary Liam Fox last night called on the Government to launch an inquiry into meningitis C immunisation, which was rushed in because of an expected rise in cases over the winter. ‘If information has been withheld, it will lead to suspicions that officials have not been entirely frank.

If 11 deaths have not been made public, the Government risks the public losing faith in the system. This is woefully incompetent.’ Fox, a GP himself, added: ‘Immunisation is about a balance of risks. Although the balance is almost always in favour of immunisation, without information parents cannot be expected to make an informed decision.’

A Department of Health spokeswoman said it chose not to make the deaths public for fear of panicking parents into withdrawing their children from inoculation. The Medicines Control Agency had investigated all the deaths and decided there was no evidence of a
link to the vaccines. ‘We maintain the vaccine is safe,’ she said last night.

A report from the Government’s Committee on the Safety of Medicines last Thursday gave the vaccine the all-clear after extensive inquiries into the level of reactions. The main supplier of the drug, US company Wyeth, said it had not been informed of any fatalities by the Department of Health. Spokesman Don Barrett said: ‘We are always in contact with the Department and the rate of reactions is considered to be at a very low level for the number vaccinated.’

Isabella Thomas, of vaccination support group Jabs (Justice Awareness Basic Support), said she had had reports of children having fits after being given the vaccine: ‘I am not convinced by government reassurances. We are receiving daily calls from parents whose children have had serious reactions. We believe the Government introduced it far too quickly.’ Dr Jayne Donegan, a London GP who has seen an increase in reactions among children at her surgery, spoke of a campaign, encouraged by the Government, to brand people who do not have their children vaccinated as irre sponsible. ‘This is not necessarily true, especially with something as untried as the meningitis C vaccine.’

Adam Finn, a paediatric expert at Sheffield Children’s Hospital who is carrying out trials of the vaccine, said he believed the drug was safe, although it had induced extreme reactions in some children. ‘We don’t want children having fits as a result of a drug that hasn’t been properly tested, but equally we wouldn’t want a perfectly good drug maligned on the basis of hearsay.’ He said the normal trials on a new vaccine were not possible in Britain because of the relatively small numbers of people who contracted the disease. Instead scientists had tested whether the vaccine produced sufficient antibodies.

He said the Government had a duty to give the public all relevant information about the drug: ‘The public has sufficient intelligence to make the decision for themselves. The way to get them to accept it is to tell the whole story.’ Liberal Democrat health spokesman Euan Harris said he had already raised questions in Parliament about the vaccine. ‘I am very pro-vaccinations,’ he said, ‘but I have been concerned about this.’

*****************
Andria , I’m concerned that it is the ” same story” with many other health care issue’s inc. ibo. treatments .
who do you believe ?
Sara
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine’s legal status and the politics.

Sara says:
When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should she ?  The Americans are patent freaks , they sue and kil! l for a patent ,

>>Only the Americans? Betcha other countries are pretty obsessive about profit-making too Sara..no?

even when the healing plants are given to use by higher powers ,they will take one working substance out of the India’s Neem tree and make a patent while in India it has been used for centuries ,same with many other plants ,why to make it easy when you can make it difficult ? because fame and money count the most?

>> Sounds like you’re awake to me Sara. Don’t doubtr your analysis

affection & solidarity

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine’s legal status and the politics.
Date: October 26, 2002 at 7:46:08 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara says:
When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should she ?  The Americans are patent freaks , they sue and kill for a patent ,

>>Only the Americans? Betcha other countries are pretty obsessive about profit-making too Sara..no?

even when the healing plants are given to use by higher powers ,they will take one working substance out of the India’s Neem tree and make a patent while in India it has been used for centuries ,same with many other plants ,why to make it easy when you can make it difficult ? because fame and money count the most?

>> Sounds like you’re awake to me Sara. Don’t doubtr your analysis

affection & solidarity

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 7:28:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Dutch government is a joke,The dutch people voted on a dead man party, the Americans run the show anyway , When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should she, for Sisko or Howard ? I doubt it .
the only thing she can get out of is that every Dr. can do it so it will give her less chance to make new discovering about Ibogaine , which can finally help her to patent something more then noribogaine . The Americans are patent freaks , they sue and kill for a patent , even when the healing plants are given to use by higher powers ,they will take one working substance out of the India’s Neem tree and make a patent while in India it has been used for centuries ,same with many other plants ,why to make it easy when you can make it difficult ? because fame and money count the most?  and this is why I rather work with Iboga and not Ibogaine ,
the Dutch government will not make it illegal because no one died directly because of it and because they don’t know much about it ,
this just an idea maybe I’m wrong I don’t know everything .
Sara

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

We did? When was that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

We did? I’m sure Dutch treatment providers are watching this one. Seems to
me it’s pretty close to being directly affected by the outcome. So, given
this agreement, which apparently I missed, is it off-topic to mention if a
country makes ibogaine illegal? Do we just hope that people interested in
ibogaine hear about its legal status elsewhere?

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <AndriaE@aol.com>

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 6:11:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We did? When was that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

We did? I’m sure Dutch treatment providers are watching this one. Seems to
me it’s pretty close to being directly affected by the outcome. So, given
this agreement, which apparently I missed, is it off-topic to mention if a
country makes ibogaine illegal? Do we just hope that people interested in
ibogaine hear about its legal status elsewhere?

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <AndriaE@aol.com>

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 5:04:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Steve

Yeh, we did, but please forgive my lack of foresight on this one. No doubt Ibogainees and their guides need to know what’s happening with Ibogaine legislation.

Apologies

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:54:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvox moves through all times except for this one it always seems. It made a pitstop in the 60’s and a lot of people on drugs got onboard.

Are you a new freak, a miserable still using junkie, or somebody who hit the wrong button somewhere and ended up here? This is a survey, there is no right answer.

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:37:26 -0700 Steve Valman <stevevalman@yahoo.com> wrote:

This sums everything up for me. I’m extremely confused though not
unhappy. Who
the hell are all you people and how did I land in the 60’s?

I got this line, I’m still laughing. Thanks I needed that. So much
for 15
years of therapy I guess I’m done.

DSM-IV Simplified: (Please Select) [1] Completely Fucking Crazy,
or [2] Full
of Shit.

this explains it all.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=About/Technology.html

Technology

MindVox is powered by an 8.0-liter V-13 engine. It features dual orgone injectors and a Vril supercharger; generating nearly 1.5 times infinite Horsepower (@ 9000rpm). It is housed in a floating sphere which makes use of the latest anti-gravity technology recovered from crashed UFOs. The VoxSphere is composed of ultra-lightweight composite materials designed to absorb radio energy, subpoenas, arrest warrants, and negatively-charged vibrational fields.

MindVox is fueled by a precise combination of Phenethylamines, Tryptamines, and Beta-Carbolines. On a good day it can achieve superluminal velocity using quantum electronics, wishful thinking, and the souls of its enemies. Conversely, on a bad day it may just sit in a dark room bangin’ up narcotic analgesics and burning holes in the furniture as it drops lit cigarettes all over everything while nodding out.

MindVox resonates with the harmonics of all thoughtscapes, headspaces, and dimensions. It has been online since the Dawn of Time and will spin through the tapestry of shared consensual hallucinations for All Eternity. In certain locations MindVox may appear to experience cosmic turbulence and flicker out of existence, fading like a mirage. Since time is nonlinear — time, in fact, looks like an endlessly interlocking series of spirals fragmenting inwards and outward simultaneously — this phenomenon is illusory and transient; merely indicating MindVox is Temporarily Unavailable for a few minutes, decades, or lifetimes.

MindVox runs an operating system so advanced it is incompatible with itself, but fully error-correcting. It utilizes spectrophotometric determination to weed out irregular cell morphology and is capable of compiling against the functions of an angle of incidence using a sub-femtosecond measurement of transmission delay times, in order to obtain a photonic bandgap. This will cause MindVox to drop to monitor — with or without an NMI switch — allowing you to insert a disk containing DOS 3.3, and use any hex editor to alter the DNA.

All is well. Try not to panic. Things will be EVEN BETTER than fine; the angels WANT you to be Baker-acted — no wait, wrong conversation.

MindVox is the Greatest Thing that has Ever Existed

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Steve Valman <stevevalman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:37:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This sums everything up for me. I’m extremely confused though not unhappy. Who
the hell are all you people and how did I land in the 60’s?

I got this line, I’m still laughing. Thanks I needed that. So much for 15
years of therapy I guess I’m done.

DSM-IV Simplified: (Please Select) [1] Completely Fucking Crazy, or [2] Full
of Shit.

— Occam’s Razor <occamsrazor_1956@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.

I started reading this with the last installment of Patrick Kroupa’s
addiction
series in Heroin Times. I read them all and they’re different and very good.
This is the series I’m talking about.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

Then I signed up to this list a couple of weeks ago and started reading
about
ibogaine online.

I nearly had a very long message to write before signing off but then I
thought why waste my time and yours by saying the obvious.

And maybe I’m missing something because I really related to the addiction
articles and I’m more then interested in ibogaine now.

My problems start with Mindvox. I don’t know what I was expecting but not
this. These are the exact rotating lines that I got when I first tried the
site. I know what they are because I saved the pages. After reading a
addiction series by someone who I thought is very smart and understands what
I’m going through. I sign into some kind of psychedelic temple that says
this

Warning, Site Contains: Undead, Starving, Rabid, Electrified Attack Dogs on
Speed wid Gatz

.By Divine Right, Motherfucker.

Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know
what it is except it’s been here since the internet began I guess, closed
for
a while and is now opening again. The ibogaine list has people on it from
what
looks like every crazy subculture from the late 60’s to right now. I look
some
of the speakers up and I have the yippies, the hippies, Timothy Leary at
Millbrook, the hacking underground and for some reason every one of you is
on
a ibogaine list on Mindvox.

I’m still reading because I still think that somewhere there must be some
reason for all this because every one of you act like it’s completely normal
to have these conversations about space time theory, quantum physics, spirit
entities, African cults, the war on drugs and whatever you all talk about on
a
list which has exactly nothing in common with any kind of drug rehab or
detox
list I have ever been on.

At that time my theory was that all of you have made progress. The progress
you’ve made is escaping from the detox ward and being ready for a long stay
in
the psychiatric wing which is usually located on the same floor.

I kept reading. I have read nearly the entire archives of this list and
that’s
some 3,000 messages and understood that had I ever said anything it would
have
had no effect exactly as I thought, since at least 70 or 80 people have
passed
through here and already said exactly what I would have said and after some
messages all of it always ends at, then why are you signed up to this list
and
reading all this, none of us came to you and told you that this was what you
had to do. Go away if you don’t like it.

Fair enough. I can’t fault that. In fact I give up. I want a new life. How
do
I get from here

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Evolution

To here. Here is where I want to go. I’m ready to make the change. No this
is
not a joke. This is exactly where I’d like to be, the universe filled with
entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the
treatment
pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.

How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who
have
anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because
as
you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
please.

This isnt to patrick alone although I would love to hear from him since he
never answers email. There are at least 5 of you on this list who fit very
close to this. Starting with Dave Hunter. Listed as “at the heart of it all”
in the Mindvox sacred texts with a painting of purple something I don’t know
what.

This is brilliant or psychotic or both, I don’t even care. How do I get from
120mg methadone to here. This is what I want.

On [Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 03:25:14PM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:

| >What really works is resonating with Purple and letting it flow through
| you. <
|
| This is the second or third time I’ve seen this- what does this mean,
| the reference to Purple? I mean, I love the color, one of my very
| favorites, being royalty and all, but is there something else to this?
| Is this a Philip K Dick reference or something? Or a Patrick Kroupa
| original?

Laughing…  Yes, *I* invented the Purple Shit!(TM)(R)(C)(Patent Pending),
although Philip K. Dick is involved, because Valis is woven into the
strands of all reality.  Just ask Dana, he’ll tell you.

Lemme look…  <looking…>

Okay, HERE, The Whole Entire Truth (in its complete totality):

| But what did you do though to get somewhere? You say pieces in HT and
here,
| I think I understand some of mindvox but when I start to get it it
becomes

| imcomprehensible it’s brilliant or crazy. I know your having a book
| published or something but the only thing online that’s even close is
| http://www.mindvox.com/MindVox/Places/Texts/CrackPipe.html and it looks
like
| you cut pieces of different times from all over and threw them together.
|
| What do you do??? Really, not just the recovery talk you give people.

Nothing, anything, everything.  It’s as simple or complex as you wanna
make it; change paradigms.

Usually what I do is get horny, wander around in sex for a while, which is
okay, but, if love doesn’t get mixed into the picture I wind up with the
armies of the universe inside my head; which is kinda like, oh fuck me, I
was having a great time and now there is all this shit, it’s violence,
brutality, destruction, and every single one of the energies taking part,
is all me, so I’m killing and being killed by myself; which is sick,
painful and kinda cool, all at the same time.  Getting outta red and into
green is sorta a bitch because green keeps refusing to let go, usually I
spin around in all this for a while and eventually manage to hit gold, but
that’s rough for me — though, it’s getting easier — I kinda hafta slide
in sideways off of compassion and empathy to hit love.  The rest is easy,
blue is intellect, that’s just online, and all of this is just a journey
on the road to the Purple Shit.

Eventually it feels sorta like blowing a load up your spine, which
probably isn’t happening, I mean, intellectually I know erection, orgasm,
ejaculation, are separate systems, but mahn, it sure feels like it.  The
whirlpools spin and resolve into eyes, which blow open, hyperventilating
increases the opacity of the eyes, kinda like adjusting the alpha channel
or sumthin’, taking really slow, deep breaths, or stopping breathing for a
while, makes them expand in number and radius and blow outwards, until it
feels like you’re football stadium sized, and you’re at the Purple Shit
(TM).

The Purple Shit is everywhere, in everything, it’s energy, but alive,
sentient, and it loves you.  It feels something like everything you are,
is a receiver/transmitter for channeling the Purple Shit (which ya can
call God, cosmic consciousness, whatever makes you happy).

After a while you don’t need any substances to do this anymore.  It’s like
re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago, and just falling back
into it.  Being in touch with this on a semi-regular basis seems to fix
90% of what’s wrong, most of the time.  Though, various PieceS and tHINGs
still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.

So, mostly, on a day-to-day basis, what holds me together is blue and
green.  Intellect reinforced by will.  If I counted on love, positive
energy, and being happy, to consistently prevent me from bangin’ up dope,
I’d last half a day at most.

My main Unresolved Issue are The Colours.  The chakras get painted with
green at the heart chakra, gold as will.  I don’t see them this way,
they’re reversed.  Is my energy system color blind, is everyone else
wrong, am I just that fucked up…  dunno <shrug> one day I’ll prolly
resolve it.

Uhm, woops, wait no, that’s wrong.

What I meant to say was; my “recovery” hinges upon an excellent
relationship with my psychiatrist, strict adherence to a regimen of
medication, and a solid foundation built on the 12-steps.  Yeah baby!

– – – – – – – – –

People who have said stuff which has a lotta resonance for me are
Muktananda and lately — thanks to Nick — Rajneesh/Osho.

A lot of books contain pieces of truth, the single greatest collection of
truth I have ever found in one place is in two books:

The Solaris System Admin Guide, by Sun Microsystems, and Machiavelli’s
cool little epic, The Prince.  Though, to be honest, the religion of BSD
calls strongly to me, and I really like Mach running the BSD 4.4 kernel.

No, wait, that’s wrong too, I meant:

One’s by Alex Grey, which doesn’t have a lot of words, it’s called Sacred
Mirrors.  And this was like pivotal in my life.  When a lotta this first
happened, I wasn’t in an environment where it was… okay or accepted, and
as cool as it was, I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this
magazine — which was a druggie mag, not High Times, maybe Magical Blend
or sumthin’ — which had Grey’s painting called “Dying.”  At the time I
didn’t know that, I thought it was Awakening, and it wuz like, holy shit,
this guy I know nothing about is painting exactly what I’m looking at.  He
sees it too, I’m not crazy.

The other book is called Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, and it’s
utterly beautiful and links together such a disparate and wide-ranging
series of topics and phenomena that it’s amazing.  Read this if ya read
nothing else, even maybe a few paragraphs at a time.

– – – – – – – – –

Just believe.  If you believe with enough focus, a Rift in Time and Space
may open right in the middle of the Mars bar, and green ibogaine sludge
mixed with DMSO might Hurtle Downwards upon the Patrons — kinda like
Cthulhu meets the Iceman Cometh, with strands of Philip K. Dick woven in
— and a great WAVE of hEALINg will SWEEP the land, “oh my fucking god…
I’ve been drunk and strung-out for 49 years, what the hell is all this
crap I’m seeing, is this reality?  Man do I need a drink.”

That concludes this evening’s sermon.  Donation box is over on the left on
your way out, thank you veddy much.

In conclusion, go to a meeting and share, you’ll feel better about things.
You’re right where you need to be, it’s all part of God’s .plan for you.
Just take things one day at a time, you have a horrible disease.

And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last, when all
are one and one is all.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: ARON KAY <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies, zippies, mindvox, tap
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:05:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey olehippy what facility was nicky sands in?
ARON KAY-
http://www.pieman.org/
http://www.pieman.org/links.html
http://www.pieman.org/60smidis.htm
http://www.pieman.org/potlinks.html
http://www.pieman.org/rottenrudy.htm
http://www.pieman.org/pagec.html
http://www.pieman.org/jeffersonstarship
http://www.pieman.org/pissonbush.html
http://www.pieman.org/anti-bushlinks.html
http://www.pieman.org/fuckyouverymuchbush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/bushisachump.htm
http://www.pieman.org/lowlifebush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/assholebush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/bushposters.htm
http://www.pieman.org/naziscum.html

—– Original Message —–
From: <olehippy@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 3:01 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies, zippies, mindvox, tap

This reminds me, does anyone know Nicky Sands email address? Dana,
Patrick, Pieman? anyone? He is out of prison.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

****!!! IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND–CALL SARA,
0113134-624-1770 !!!****

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Dana what’s the difference between the yippies and hippies?

I wanted to post that also since a little while ago I am starting to
get emails from people asking me where to buy ibogaine. These emails
are not coming from yahoo or hotmail accounts they are all coming from
different internet accounts. I don’t know why anyone is sending these
questions to me because I don’t know.

I’m not posting their names because I don’t want everyone to be all
paranoid of them but it’s a little strange that these people are
filling up my email asking this when there is a guy who just posted
photos of his ibogaine plants and runs a cool entheogen shop in canada.
Why ask me?

Go look it up.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I don’t have any ibogaine and don’t know where to get it in the united
states.

.:vector:.
——

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Try to get Jerry Rubin’s book DO IT! and you’ll know all you want to
know about yippies… and more. There’s a chapter (Chapter 13, I
think) which tells about birth of YIPpies, and it starts like this:
“We got stoned so we could think logically.”
And then they made Youth International Party (YIP).
(This is according to my memory; It’s been a loong time since I read DO
IT!)

Hippies are something similar, but mainly without political aspect ;-))

Marko

—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Ordering on amazon with my next clicks 🙂

My last part of the question would be then where does the hacking
underground it into all of this? Why is patrick and mindvox and
everything tied into the yippies??

Thanks, this is fascinating. I was not even alive until the 80’s so I
don’t know! Thanks for giving me the answer instead of laughing at my
dumb question.

.:vector:.
—–

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Mahn do you people all have a lot to say the last couple of daze… Will
scan through all this and reply here, to my mail, to my phone messages,
everything, any minute now. I promise. It’s not my fault I’m
dysfunctional, plus, also, have a real job, which isn’t this.

Do0d… Who the hell knows. Forget 6 degrees of seperation, try for
maybe 3 — as per a conversation I had with Howard, which is to true
that it’s funny, or not… Synchronicity, God works in strange ways.

TAP is where it all begins… TAP was the birthplace of ThA undergrOund.
Abbie Hoffman started this thing called YIPL (Youth International Party
Lines) which turned into TAP (Technological Assistance Program). We found
TAP when we were like 12, 13 years old, because we were online by then,
and meeting other phone phreaks. The internet wasn’t quite there, it was
more blue boxing and jamming up Step by Steps and Crossbars — which NYC
had a lot of, being a very old city. DMS and ESS, and CCIS (Closed
Circuit/Channel Interoffice Signaling) didn’t exist at most CO’s (Central
Offices, not Corrections Officers) yet.

TAP was this series of meetings on the lower east side in NYC, where there
were all these crazy old people who were very excited about technology and
shit. And we were a bunch of kids who were very smart and easy to
exploit, all they had to do was give us drugs and maybe buy us some food,
and we’d FIGURE THINGS OUT and SOLVE PROBLEMS. Whoops, no, I meant to
say, they saw the beautiful light, which is truth, which is knowledge,
shining within us and wanted to nurture it. Or infect us with whatever
they had, or sumthin…

But anyway, if my parents broke my mind, society stepped on the pieces,
then THOSE PEOPLE at TAP fine-tuned the wreckage and helped articulate the
ISSUES inside.

So, that was a huge part of our wasted youth. Pieman running around;
Agent 6 — who was very MySteRioUs, until we backed him out, pulled all
his shit, and found his Secret Identity! — all these 60’s do0dz, who did
stuff long before I was alive either. I missed the whole entire 60’s, I
was still on my last life back then.

Basically, THEY were our introduction to organized madness.

I had no idea what the fuck a Yippie is either. They were just all these
crazy old people who had good drugs =)

Patrick

——

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

You know you can just put all those questions into a search engine
and get answers. Maybe not as colorful as the actual people here will
give you but still some answers 🙂

Jerry Rubin’s book is well worth reading not even if you want to feel
like you’re part of something from back then but to understand at
least where a lot of it came from.

patrick kroupa yippies
patrick kroupa yipl
patrick kroupa tap
lord digital tap
lord digital legion of doom tap

The mindvox media kit.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpage
name=Media/InternetGurus.html

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpage
name=Media/SFF.html

Peace out,
Curtis
—–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, I ran the Yippies and published the Yippie paper in the
’70’s–until Abbie came back in 1980 and asked me to cut it out.
Before that I was the chief theoretician of YIP…kind of the Michael
Suslov of the counter-culture.

Ibogaine is the fulfillment of Yippie…or at least one of the points
of the original platform, which was to fulfill the mission of
Burroughs and Ginsberg, and find an actual medical cure for heroin
addiction. (look at the intro to my book at
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html ). And they got so
close, doing ayahuasca in the Amazon (see the Yage papers)–only they
never recognized Lotsof, due to the Yippie/Zippie split I think. That
split was brought about by a conflict between Abbie and Tom Forcade,
the founder of High Times, over credit and payment for STEAL THIS
BOOK.

Dana/cnw
——-

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

I know I’m about to put my foot in my mouth but I’m baked enough to not
care.

What’s a zippie?

Are there any more vocabulary words from the 60’s I’m missing? 🙂

Hippie, yippie, zippie. Xippie?

That’s a zippie? 🙂

.:vector:
——

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I know I’m saying the obvious but I just thought I’d mention that
everyone who posts to this list is completely insane.

Then that’s the whole purpose of Mindvox isn’t it. Very nice to have
a platform to broadcast insanity. Seems very popular. Might even work
as part of the harm reduction model. seperation of mindvox from hard
drugs. no maybe i won’t smoke crack today, I’ll just see what people
on the list are saying instead same effect.

Cheers
——-

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

Brendan22 et all,

this reminds me of a very basic question, for which I’d like to know
the answer very much:

WHAT DEFINES INTELLIGENCE??
(not only in humans, but intelligence generally. Universally.

Can someone tell me this definition?

Thanks,

Marko
——

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, Marko, you were intelligent enough to notice when OVERTHROW
published the very first story about Ibogaine, for instance.

Dana/cnw
——–

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I didn’t just notice it. Something in my brains made CLICK and I KNEW
Ibogaine was something so unbelieveable crazy, unconventional,
impossible to make it available (don’t forget that I lived in
socialist/communist Yugoslavia at the time) that I simply HAD TO
involve myself in this…. I instantly KNEW it does what I was
reading…

This was not intelligence, it was emotion. Something similar happened
to me years after this, when I saw my wife for the first time ;-)))

But it was intelligent of (wat’s-her-name-again, she lives upstairs
in 9 Bleecker) that she put me on the free list of OVERTHROW
subscribers… or was it emotional, too?

There are NO coincidences!
(what about our free will???)

😉

Marko

——-

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

That was Alice. She’s still upstairs. I would like the paper to come
out again, but we would have to be able to hang on to the blg. She
put all kinds of people on that list. Did you know there were Yippies
in Athens. I would like to get back in touch with the Yippies in
Athens, for the annual march in May.

But the thing that yr talking about is not emotional, although it may
be said to be intuitive, instead of deductive. It’s PATTERN
RECOGNITION.

I have very good pattern recognition. I had the same reaction you
describe when Howard told me about Ibo.

Dana/cnw

———

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort
of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’ This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have
found you’re own daimos, it opens up somekind of doorway through which all
the universe’s energies, or whatever you’d like to call it, comes rushing
through your mind. Anyone who has been reborn can testify to this; it’s an
energy rush that suddenly gives you new sites, new views, scores of new
thought dimensions. His theory is that anyone who finds this daimos,
through ibogaine, drugs, their own soul-searching, whatever, also finds
greater intelligence. I always think of those singers who people say have
a
lot of soul, when I think of this definition. You don’t see great singers
of soul sitting around writing books on fuzzy logic. But you listen to
them, and hear that daimos coming out of them, and their way of singing
reaches parts of your mind that have been touched and that you never even
knew were there.
———–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’m not saying some are not more mature than others– just that this
is pattern recognition we’re talking about, not deduction– so that
the kind of instant “Click, I get it” response that Marko is talking
about is not a matter of mood, but cognition.

Dana/cnw
——–

From: “R.A.Venglarcik” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force. I was tired of my
work…never really seeing anyone change for the better, yet still
enjoyed working with the people. I sunk a bunch of money into
retraining. I’ve always been a geek, so I decided to make $ at it
instead of trying to save the world. I had read about ibogaine 2-3
years ago and was intrigued, but was already moving forward with the
“I’ve gotta get outta here” plan, so I set it aside. Then about a year
ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option. I told them all I
knew. Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched, it
seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. I’ve never done
ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out. For
whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed with
it in my thoughts. I have been unable to force myself to actually
pursue the career change…why? I love working with the people and
ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. Coincidence? I Don’t know. But
when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out bad.
When I don’t I shrivel up a little inside.
———–

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I agree with Dana. The human body is dependant on both emotional and
physical needs and they interact to differing degrees for each person but
both are necessary to make up the whole. Some people can be really
intelligent but lack basic common sense or empathy with others etc and
still
not be able to cope with life around them. I reckon its all a case of
balance yet again, same as food and anything else you do in life. It still
comes back to dealing with yourself in the end. Allison
——-

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there. Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose. It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. Fucking ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick
——

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d agree with what Dana said. I don’t really divide it as intelligence
and emotion, more a series of places you can have resonance with.

Just from my own experience, if you are in extremely negative spaces —
whatever they may be — if you apply focused intellect and reinforce that
with will, you can pull out of them … temporarily anyway. In the end
the only solution is to just drop it; accept it; integrate it, and none of
this is ever an intellectual sorta decision. It’s such an amazingly
beautiful thing when my mind finally shuts up. Entheogens are extremely
helpful in tearing down your reason, so you can think again.

Everything is a series of balances, a harmonic. Or it should be, when you
try to force it out of alignment, PieCeS start to blow out and come
raining down on the whole entire scenario. Which is a real bummer.

Patrick
—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

All of you should book a flight with the philip k. dick travel agency
and go give him some 🙂

.:vector:
_____________

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: olehippy@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies, zippies, mindvox, tap
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:01:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This reminds me, does anyone know Nicky Sands email address? Dana, Patrick, Pieman? anyone? He is out of prison.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

****!!! IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND–CALL SARA,
0113134-624-1770 !!!****

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Dana what’s the difference between the yippies and hippies?

I wanted to post that also since a little while ago I am starting to
get emails from people asking me where to buy ibogaine. These emails
are not coming from yahoo or hotmail accounts they are all coming from
different internet accounts. I don’t know why anyone is sending these
questions to me because I don’t know.

I’m not posting their names because I don’t want everyone to be all
paranoid of them but it’s a little strange that these people are
filling up my email asking this when there is a guy who just posted
photos of his ibogaine plants and runs a cool entheogen shop in canada.
Why ask me?

Go look it up.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I don’t have any ibogaine and don’t know where to get it in the united
states.

.:vector:.
——

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Try to get Jerry Rubin’s book DO IT! and you’ll know all you want to
know about yippies… and more. There’s a chapter (Chapter 13, I
think) which tells about birth of YIPpies, and it starts like this:
“We got stoned so we could think logically.”
And then they made Youth International Party (YIP).
(This is according to my memory; It’s been a loong time since I read DO IT!)

Hippies are something similar, but mainly without political aspect ;-))

Marko

—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Ordering on amazon with my next clicks 🙂

My last part of the question would be then where does the hacking
underground it into all of this? Why is patrick and mindvox and
everything tied into the yippies??

Thanks, this is fascinating. I was not even alive until the 80’s so I
don’t know! Thanks for giving me the answer instead of laughing at my
dumb question.

.:vector:.
—–

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Mahn do you people all have a lot to say the last couple of daze… Will
scan through all this and reply here, to my mail, to my phone messages,
everything, any minute now. I promise. It’s not my fault I’m
dysfunctional, plus, also, have a real job, which isn’t this.

Do0d… Who the hell knows. Forget 6 degrees of seperation, try for
maybe 3 — as per a conversation I had with Howard, which is to true
that it’s funny, or not… Synchronicity, God works in strange ways.

TAP is where it all begins… TAP was the birthplace of ThA undergrOund.
Abbie Hoffman started this thing called YIPL (Youth International Party
Lines) which turned into TAP (Technological Assistance Program). We found
TAP when we were like 12, 13 years old, because we were online by then,
and meeting other phone phreaks. The internet wasn’t quite there, it was
more blue boxing and jamming up Step by Steps and Crossbars — which NYC
had a lot of, being a very old city. DMS and ESS, and CCIS (Closed
Circuit/Channel Interoffice Signaling) didn’t exist at most CO’s (Central
Offices, not Corrections Officers) yet.

TAP was this series of meetings on the lower east side in NYC, where there
were all these crazy old people who were very excited about technology and
shit. And we were a bunch of kids who were very smart and easy to
exploit, all they had to do was give us drugs and maybe buy us some food,
and we’d FIGURE THINGS OUT and SOLVE PROBLEMS. Whoops, no, I meant to
say, they saw the beautiful light, which is truth, which is knowledge,
shining within us and wanted to nurture it. Or infect us with whatever
they had, or sumthin…

But anyway, if my parents broke my mind, society stepped on the pieces,
then THOSE PEOPLE at TAP fine-tuned the wreckage and helped articulate the
ISSUES inside.

So, that was a huge part of our wasted youth. Pieman running around;
Agent 6 — who was very MySteRioUs, until we backed him out, pulled all
his shit, and found his Secret Identity! — all these 60’s do0dz, who did
stuff long before I was alive either. I missed the whole entire 60’s, I
was still on my last life back then.

Basically, THEY were our introduction to organized madness.

I had no idea what the fuck a Yippie is either. They were just all these
crazy old people who had good drugs =)

Patrick

——

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

You know you can just put all those questions into a search engine
and get answers. Maybe not as colorful as the actual people here will
give you but still some answers 🙂

Jerry Rubin’s book is well worth reading not even if you want to feel
like you’re part of something from back then but to understand at
least where a lot of it came from.

patrick kroupa yippies
patrick kroupa yipl
patrick kroupa tap
lord digital tap
lord digital legion of doom tap

The mindvox media kit.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Media/InternetGurus.html

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Media/SFF.html

Peace out,
Curtis
—–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, I ran the Yippies and published the Yippie paper in the
’70’s–until Abbie came back in 1980 and asked me to cut it out.
Before that I was the chief theoretician of YIP…kind of the Michael
Suslov of the counter-culture.

Ibogaine is the fulfillment of Yippie…or at least one of the points
of the original platform, which was to fulfill the mission of
Burroughs and Ginsberg, and find an actual medical cure for heroin
addiction. (look at the intro to my book at
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html ). And they got so
close, doing ayahuasca in the Amazon (see the Yage papers)–only they
never recognized Lotsof, due to the Yippie/Zippie split I think. That
split was brought about by a conflict between Abbie and Tom Forcade,
the founder of High Times, over credit and payment for STEAL THIS
BOOK.

Dana/cnw
——-

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

I know I’m about to put my foot in my mouth but I’m baked enough to not
care.

What’s a zippie?

Are there any more vocabulary words from the 60’s I’m missing? 🙂

Hippie, yippie, zippie. Xippie?

That’s a zippie? 🙂

.:vector:
——

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I know I’m saying the obvious but I just thought I’d mention that
everyone who posts to this list is completely insane.

Then that’s the whole purpose of Mindvox isn’t it. Very nice to have
a platform to broadcast insanity. Seems very popular. Might even work
as part of the harm reduction model. seperation of mindvox from hard
drugs. no maybe i won’t smoke crack today, I’ll just see what people
on the list are saying instead same effect.

Cheers
——-

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

Brendan22 et all,

this reminds me of a very basic question, for which I’d like to know
the answer very much:

WHAT DEFINES INTELLIGENCE??
(not only in humans, but intelligence generally. Universally.

Can someone tell me this definition?

Thanks,

Marko
——

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, Marko, you were intelligent enough to notice when OVERTHROW
published the very first story about Ibogaine, for instance.

Dana/cnw
——–

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I didn’t just notice it. Something in my brains made CLICK and I KNEW
Ibogaine was something so unbelieveable crazy, unconventional,
impossible to make it available (don’t forget that I lived in
socialist/communist Yugoslavia at the time) that I simply HAD TO
involve myself in this…. I instantly KNEW it does what I was
reading…

This was not intelligence, it was emotion. Something similar happened
to me years after this, when I saw my wife for the first time ;-)))

But it was intelligent of (wat’s-her-name-again, she lives upstairs
in 9 Bleecker) that she put me on the free list of OVERTHROW
subscribers… or was it emotional, too?

There are NO coincidences!
(what about our free will???)

😉

Marko

——-

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

That was Alice. She’s still upstairs. I would like the paper to come
out again, but we would have to be able to hang on to the blg. She
put all kinds of people on that list. Did you know there were Yippies
in Athens. I would like to get back in touch with the Yippies in
Athens, for the annual march in May.

But the thing that yr talking about is not emotional, although it may
be said to be intuitive, instead of deductive. It’s PATTERN
RECOGNITION.

I have very good pattern recognition. I had the same reaction you
describe when Howard told me about Ibo.

Dana/cnw

———

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’ This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have
found you’re own daimos, it opens up somekind of doorway through which all
the universe’s energies, or whatever you’d like to call it, comes rushing
through your mind. Anyone who has been reborn can testify to this; it’s an
energy rush that suddenly gives you new sites, new views, scores of new
thought dimensions. His theory is that anyone who finds this daimos,
through ibogaine, drugs, their own soul-searching, whatever, also finds
greater intelligence. I always think of those singers who people say have a
lot of soul, when I think of this definition. You don’t see great singers
of soul sitting around writing books on fuzzy logic. But you listen to
them, and hear that daimos coming out of them, and their way of singing
reaches parts of your mind that have been touched and that you never even
knew were there.
———–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’m not saying some are not more mature than others– just that this
is pattern recognition we’re talking about, not deduction– so that
the kind of instant “Click, I get it” response that Marko is talking
about is not a matter of mood, but cognition.

Dana/cnw
——–

From: “R.A.Venglarcik” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force. I was tired of my
work…never really seeing anyone change for the better, yet still
enjoyed working with the people. I sunk a bunch of money into
retraining. I’ve always been a geek, so I decided to make $ at it
instead of trying to save the world. I had read about ibogaine 2-3
years ago and was intrigued, but was already moving forward with the
“I’ve gotta get outta here” plan, so I set it aside. Then about a year
ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option. I told them all I
knew. Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched, it
seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. I’ve never done
ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out. For
whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed with
it in my thoughts. I have been unable to force myself to actually
pursue the career change…why? I love working with the people and
ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. Coincidence? I Don’t know. But
when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out bad.
When I don’t I shrivel up a little inside.
———–

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I agree with Dana. The human body is dependant on both emotional and
physical needs and they interact to differing degrees for each person but
both are necessary to make up the whole. Some people can be really
intelligent but lack basic common sense or empathy with others etc and still
not be able to cope with life around them. I reckon its all a case of
balance yet again, same as food and anything else you do in life. It still
comes back to dealing with yourself in the end. Allison
——-

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there. Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose. It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. Fucking ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick
——

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d agree with what Dana said. I don’t really divide it as intelligence
and emotion, more a series of places you can have resonance with.

Just from my own experience, if you are in extremely negative spaces —
whatever they may be — if you apply focused intellect and reinforce that
with will, you can pull out of them … temporarily anyway. In the end
the only solution is to just drop it; accept it; integrate it, and none of
this is ever an intellectual sorta decision. It’s such an amazingly
beautiful thing when my mind finally shuts up. Entheogens are extremely
helpful in tearing down your reason, so you can think again.

Everything is a series of balances, a harmonic. Or it should be, when you
try to force it out of alignment, PieCeS start to blow out and come
raining down on the whole entire scenario. Which is a real bummer.

Patrick
—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

All of you should book a flight with the philip k. dick travel agency
and go give him some 🙂

.:vector:
_____________

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: olehippy@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: October 26, 2002 at 2:48:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s a different way of looking at it.

On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:05:58 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 10:17:10PM -0400], [R.A.Venglarcik] wrote:

| Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force.  I was tired
of my

| ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option.  I told
them all I
| knew.  Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched,
it
| seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience.  I’ve never
done
| ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out.
For
| whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to
bed with
| it in my thoughts.  I have been unable to force myself to actually
| pursue the career change…why?  I love working with the people
and
| ibogaine has some sort of hold on me.  Coincidence? I Don’t know.
But
| when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns
out bad.

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine
would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there.  Many things were completely not his fault,
he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be
held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose.
It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate
with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit.  Fucking
ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add From a self-described “Super Bitch”
Date: October 25, 2002 at 11:20:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, Viv, I agree. jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add From a self-described “Super Bitch”
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:49:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is Viv.  Get a life, both of you!  These petty
squabbles bespeak of little minds with nothing greater
to do in life but spend eternity on the computer.
Now, if you will excuse me, I have dishes to wash.

Viv

— Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com> wrote:
I’m sorry brett, and all, i knew when I said “crap”
this challenge
would probably7 arise, and wished I hadn’t said it.
I give up.  I
surrender.  Women suck, and you all are right about
everything.  Yay
for you.  Pussy, pussy, pussy.  that’s all we are.
Have fun. Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:40:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry brett, and all, i knew when I said “crap” this challenge
would probably7 arise, and wished I hadn’t said it.  I give up.  I
surrender.  Women suck, and you all are right about everything.  Yay
for you.  Pussy, pussy, pussy.  that’s all we are.  Have fun. Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:32:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

so that people can
work together
without all this labelling crap.

When you say “crap” do you mean poop? How that label
started I never know, it went from John J Crapper
making a toilet for fecies, to them getting labeled
“crap” to somehow becomming a name for all sorts of
things. How do you think John J Crapper would feel if
he knew his good name was used in such a way, YOU
should be more sensitive

Brett

Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:44:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, Andria.  And absolutely.  Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:44:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We did? I’m sure Dutch treatment providers are watching this one. Seems to
me it’s pretty close to being directly affected by the outcome. So, given
this agreement, which apparently I missed, is it off-topic to mention if a
country makes ibogaine illegal? Do we just hope that people interested in
ibogaine hear about its legal status elsewhere?

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <AndriaE@aol.com>

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:06:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yep, there was a sound apology made by said teen, so why are we all still discussing it
He’s forgiven as far as I’m concerned many days ago, and it was im in one of my dark moods that complained in the first place

Please let’s stop using this bizz as an excuse to distract from Iboga treatment on this list. There are some wonderful detoxes going on right now, partially supported throught this list right?

with respect

Andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:00:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 7:44:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, the teenager in question here made a very mature apology
that if he had by careless use of language offended anyone he was
sorry; what’s the beef now?  Everyone has a right to be treated
respectfully, “even” women, “even” teenagers.  Those who don’t
respect others may be expressing a reaction formation, or deep
weltschmertz, or disturbing Mars transit, or bad drunk or whatever
your point of reference, but asking them to take responsibility for
their statements is not an act of dominance (or “pussywhipping, or
ballbreaking” or whatever you want to say;) rather it is a request
for clarification and respect, so that people can work together
without all this labelling crap.   Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 25, 2002 at 12:38:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front

At 15:33 22.10.2002, you wrote:

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their
right to
use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something
like
Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s
Schedule 1
for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a
demand
to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

Tell this to your government and prove it to them ;-))
Life on Earth would be MUCH better if you convince them!

Marko

I agree that it definitely would, but there’s still precious little evidence
to really say this is so, as far as I know. Personally, I still rate the
version given by an interesting Finn called Ior Bock [I am The Book], final
custodian of the 10,000 year old Bock Saga. Wonder what the Bwiti would
think of the notion that the first humans originated at the exact North
Pole?

http://www.bocksaga.com/ior.html
http://www.sshoesmith.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm

All the best

Nick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:38:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, why couldn’t a gay guy be under the control of a
woman or dominated by a woman, even if he’s not
interested in her anatomy in a sexual manner?

They can be and often are but being “pussy whipped” by
your controlling/dominating mommy don’t work. Gay guys
often have dominating mothers and sometimes weak
(pussy?) fathers or emasculated ones. “Pussy whipped”
has to do with a woman they are romantically
interested in (the wife, the GF…). They are mutually
exclusive terms (homosexual and pussy whipped), it is
not just a woman who dominates them (eg, the boss, not
usually), at least not how the term has been used
where I come from.  Of course I don’t personally use
such terms,  maybe someone else has a better
understanding of its use in different situations.

Anyway, it has nothing to do with ibogaine UNLESS it
is an issue that comes out (and likely would be!)
during an ibogaine session. Hummm…..

Brett
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Alison,

“pussywhipped homosexual”, now there is a new one.
It
sounds good but is an oxymoron, you can’t be pussy
whipped if you are gay. It requires interest in
the
“pussy” as the term “pussy” is used to refer to
women
and not another definition such as “that guy is
such a
pussy”, or “here pussy, good kitty” and does not
mean
the genitalia of a woman either or that women are
their pussys.

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped   adj   1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

OR

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Definition: Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman;
dominated
by a woman.
Example: 1) Doug is pussy whipped by his
girlfriend–he does everything she tells him to.

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used
in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
Who said that all it took was a few comments to
turn
a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap.    You want to
toughen up
guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside
out or
upside down.  Get a
life,  and perhaps a sense of
humour……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch
<crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the
funniest shit I’ve
read all day though. Thank you for the laugh
🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com
wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with
themselves. You’ve
taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned
him
into a
pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I
have
a lot of gay
friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour
a
day class here
http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case
Mindvox never
finishes playing with art or objects and dot
com
doesn’t come
back and I have to go get a job in a few
years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the
whole Mindvox story
but it would probably be about as uplifting as
say, Brazil, or
perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity
of
12 Monkeys and
the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving
Las
Vegas thrown
in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector
Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like
the
people on this
list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that
is
only a
reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I
can’t understand
how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to
put
her nude
photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I
mean
it’s downright
sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something.
Does
it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for
Rediffmail
Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 9:37:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman; dominated
by a woman. <

So, why couldn’t a gay guy be under the control of a woman or dominated by a woman, even if he’s not interested in her anatomy in a sexual manner?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Alison,

“pussywhipped homosexual”, now there is a new one. It
sounds good but is an oxymoron, you can’t be pussy
whipped if you are gay. It requires interest in the
“pussy” as the term “pussy” is used to refer to women
and not another definition such as “that guy is such a
pussy”, or “here pussy, good kitty” and does not mean
the genitalia of a woman either or that women are
their pussys.

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped   adj   1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

OR

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Definition: Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman; dominated
by a woman.
Example: 1) Doug is pussy whipped by his
girlfriend–he does everything she tells him to.

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn
> a normal teenager into
> a pussywhipped homosexual.
> What a total load of crap.    You want to toughen up
> guys if thats all it
> takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or
> upside down.  Get a
> life,  and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
> Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
>
>
> >Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the
> funniest shit I’ve
> >read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂
> >
> >Peace out,
> >Curtis
> >
> >On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :
> >>
> >>I hope the women on this list are happy with
> themselves. You’ve
> >>taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him
> into a
> >>pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have
> a lot of gay
> >>friends.
> >>
> >>I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a
> day class here
> >>http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case
> Mindvox never
> >>finishes playing with art or objects and dot com
> doesn’t come
> >>back and I have to go get a job in a few years.
> >>
> >>I was thinking about making a movie about the
> whole Mindvox story
> >>but it would probably be about as uplifting as
> say, Brazil, or
> >>perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of
> 12 Monkeys and
> >>the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las
> Vegas thrown
> >>in.
> >>
> >>On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector
> Vector
> >><vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >I forgot to mention since I actually like the
> people on this
> >>list,
> >> > the
> >> >Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is
> only a
> >>reflection
> >> >on my
> >> >immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I
> can’t understand
> >>how
> >> >the
> >> >Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put
> her nude
> >>photos
> >> >all
> >> >over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean
> it’s downright
> >>sick
> >> >I
> >> >didn’t mean that last comment either.
> >> >
> >> >I’m in training for marriage or something. Does
> it get worse?
> >> >
> >> >.:vector:.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Get your free encrypted email at
> https://www.hushmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________
> >Give your Company an email address like
> >ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail
> Pro today!
> >Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 9:12:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison,

“pussywhipped homosexual”, now there is a new one. It
sounds good but is an oxymoron, you can’t be pussy
whipped if you are gay. It requires interest in the
“pussy” as the term “pussy” is used to refer to women
and not another definition such as “that guy is such a
pussy”, or “here pussy, good kitty” and does not mean
the genitalia of a woman either or that women are
their pussys.

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped   adj   1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

OR

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Definition: Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman; dominated
by a woman.
Example: 1) Doug is pussy whipped by his
girlfriend–he does everything she tells him to.

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn
a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap.    You want to toughen up
guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or
upside down.  Get a
life,  and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the
funniest shit I’ve
read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with
themselves. You’ve
taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him
into a
pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have
a lot of gay
friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a
day class here
http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case
Mindvox never
finishes playing with art or objects and dot com
doesn’t come
back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the
whole Mindvox story
but it would probably be about as uplifting as
say, Brazil, or
perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of
12 Monkeys and
the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las
Vegas thrown
in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector
Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like the
people on this
list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is
only a
reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I
can’t understand
how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put
her nude
photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean
it’s downright
sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does
it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail
Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 5:29:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Alison Senepart wrote:

Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap.    You want to toughen up guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or upside down.  Get a
life,  and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison

You might try taking your own advice….

sheeesh. where do all these humourless, soulless, grey faces come from??

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 4:50:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap.    You want to toughen up guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or upside down.  Get a
life,  and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the funniest shit I’ve
read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve
taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a
pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay
friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a day class here
http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case Mindvox never
finishes playing with art or objects and dot com doesn’t come
back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the whole Mindvox story
but it would probably be about as uplifting as say, Brazil, or
perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of 12 Monkeys and
the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las Vegas thrown
in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this
list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a
reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand
how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude
photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright
sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 25, 2002 at 3:33:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 00:19:38
brendan22 wrote:

For real already. To be calm and not repeat it let me give you some input.

Open it. This is fucking beautiful already.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

The only thing that’s going to change between mv04 and mv024 is insane details that nobody sees except for you people.

“God is in the details” mv04 is beautiful 🙂

I’d also like to schedule a appointment with Drew Ross’ court appointed psychiatrist. How come I never got her?

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred/Gallery.html

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: October 25, 2002 at 3:31:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t mean to sound very dumb, but how do I sign into the beta software please?

Thank you.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:14:37
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700], [lightstorm4@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox synthesis
| and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then absorbed by
| erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most of the
| information. Is all of this online somewhere?

Yeah, everything is intact, Atlantis is in the process of rising once
again; it is the end of days after all.

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies.  Send email to accounts and
you’ll be added.

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending mail
into the year 1997.  Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

Patrick

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 25, 2002 at 3:19:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For real already. To be calm and not repeat it let me give you some input.

Open it. This is fucking beautiful already.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

The only thing that’s going to change between mv04 and mv024 is insane details that nobody sees except for you people. Have you looked at slashdot, fucked co, craig’s list? They all suck and they’re all open. The hit rate for this thing when it is closed is crazy. You’ve hit 10,000 twice. People want it open. Most important I want it open, in 3 more months the phc will ddos the root servers again anyway and this time 9 will blow instead of 8 and the entire internet will go down.

The input for the beta is you have every feature ever invented, sort subject by topics using reverse leap years ending in the number 9. Your problem is that you people can do neuroscience, security, hacking, writing, art, probably sing and play guitar, but you can’t ever set down the crackpipe and just stop. Curtis is exactly right. The thing you should do now is open the goddamn site and bring 10 years that are lost in time back up. MindVox said it was going to beat guns n roses ever going on tour again. They’re about as on schedule as you, but after 9 years the dates are finally booked, you have about a month to keep your word. And you’re nearly as late.

http://gnronline.com/

Rise from the ashes already, I’m bored. You were the 3rd internet site that ever existed, you existed before WWW was here, when you finally open again the world is really going to end and I’m waiting.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:25:06 -0700 Curtis  Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

I have got to go with this one too. Peeps you’re done now. Play

with the art forever for all I care, but this is beautiful, open

the fucking site bro. The beta is holding.

You are done. If any of you were within reach of me I would pull

you away from the computer, crackpipe, airbrush, same thing. It
is
time to just say no. You’re done. O p e n it 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 Vector Vector wrote :
I think they’re more interested in doing that art thing 🙂 Here

are the
10 versions or so I know about so far from crashtestdummies
offlist
mail. I’m sure there are probably 50 more but drew turned off
listing
on his directories 🙁 I’m also sure in the next months there will

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 25, 2002 at 2:51:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, steve diamond wrote:

What is Dutch public affairs doing on this site? I signed up to save my life
with the help of Ibogaine. It is bad enough that Ibo is only rarely
mentioned but this politics crap is enough to get me to sign off for good.

Well, I think this is relevant for a number of reasons. For one, the
Netherlands has one of the most progressive and most beneficial drug
policies that I know of. Also, a good deal of research on ibogaine was
conducted in the Netherlands, and a lot of ibogaine therapy is done there.

Aside from which, if you’re going to get anything out of this list, you
should try to accept the fact that we’re a chatty bunch, and have fun with
it.

Let your mind go, and the rest will follow…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 25, 2002 at 2:43:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 24 Oct 2002, Curtis  Hersch wrote:

What exactly is the difference between HCL and the new extract.
From what’s been written here the old indra material was made 20
years or more ago and it is all from the same batch. What you’re
doing is making new extract right? But if it’s 560-660mg Ibogaine
per g of extract then the dosing levels that apply to indra would
no longer apply to what you’ve got. You’d be somewhere between
indra and HCL.

I don’t know much about this new extract, but I would guess that it
contains other chemicals in addition to ibogaine. The iboga plant has 12
known active alkaloids, of which ibogaine is one. Ibogaine HCL is a
pure, stable compound, which can be extracted from iboga, or synthesised.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 24, 2002 at 10:47:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis, a few comments. I have been in contact with
Ethnogarden and am getting a grasp on what they have,
best I can from a distance anyway.

What exactly is the difference between HCL and the
new extract.

Well, one is HCL, likely somewhat synthetic and the
other is a plant extract with all the other iboga
alkaloids, it is also in freebase form so it wouldn’t
absorb quite as quickly as HCL.

From what’s been written here the old indra
material was made 20
years or more ago and it is all from the same batch.
What you’re
doing is making new extract right?

That is what they are doing.

But if it’s
560-660mg Ibogaine
per g of extract then the dosing levels that apply
to indra would
no longer apply to what you’ve got.

Correct. Being a new product and ibogaine by its very
nature unpredictable they initially believed it would
be gram for gram replacement for HCL – being that
there would be some synergy of the other alkaloids
along with the ibogaine in the extract, it turns out
not to be. It appears to be about 3/5ths as strong as
HCL by my very dirty/quick/ballpark guestimation. They
are having a full analysis done.

You’d be
somewhere between
indra and HCL.

This is my impression from reading the messages so
far and reading
Marc Emery’s posts. Which indicate a total of 700mg,
750mg, 700mg
then 400mg. For 2550mg total right?

Not quite, the last 700 dose was barfed up, not all of
it likely, I believe it was about 1/2 hour later. The
400mg was a replacement of what was not absorbed.
There was also an initial tester dose of 150mg given –
so about 2.3gm total absorbed if you figure as Marc
did that the patient lost 300mg (or so) of the 700mg –
seems ballpark right to me. Ethnogarden recommended
giving the dose spread out, maybe if given all at once
(not including the tester) the dosing would be a
little closer to HCL given all at once. So it is a
little off/different as the body will metabolize
ibogaine very rapidly. Just a thought/consideration.

Anyway, that is basically what I got from it.

Brett

Kick ass
magazine by the way
bro, I dig Cannabis Culture 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
wrote :
The first testing we had done was to isolate the
total Ibogaine
content of the extract which turned out results of
560-660mg
Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total
analysis which
will give the Total alkaloid content. These results
should be
back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our
product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga,
critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM,
bcalabrese@yahoo.com
writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark
yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a
little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at
least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should
indicate the
amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product
contains.  No
one should
administer any product they are not familiar
with and
certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of
T. iboga.  And
certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical
dependence.

Howard

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro
today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: October 24, 2002 at 10:40:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One request, I understand you’re loading the test forums at random and
some of it is very cool but could you please load the entire message
base? How many million messages is that? I would love to see the drug
and synthesis archives that orignated here because only pieces of them
survived through hyppereal and erowid.

Thanks!

.:vector:.

— lightstorm4@hushmail.com wrote:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:14:37 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700],
[lightstorm4@hushmail.com]
wrote:

| Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox
synthesis
| and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then
absorbed
by
| erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most
of the
| information. Is all of this online somewhere?

Yeah, everything is intact, Atlantis is in the process of rising
once
again; it is the end of days after all.

Very glad to hear!

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies.  Send email to accounts
and
you’ll be added.

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this
list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client
you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending
mail
into the year 1997.  Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

Ahhhhhhhhh, I forgot that switch.

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

Patrick

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: Hush 2.2 (Java)
Note: This signature can be verified at
https://www.hushtools.com/verify

wmAEARECACAFAj2R/XUZHGxpZ2h0c3Rvcm00QGh1c2htYWlsLmNvbQAKCRCa2UaFFbaI
sc4zAJ9RYKAS4+XrDPvx763y6u0qhLfkOgCfSbWgSdHstUfxnhzNqmZ4t5W/oYk=
=dMFS
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “raven” <Raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Testimony
Date: October 24, 2002 at 9:25:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hit them with all the available research data…or write a concise, heavily footnoted synopsis of the available data and dumb it down to their level.

———- Original Message ———————————-
From: “Les Smith” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:15:43 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am trying to convince the Clinical Staff of the Oasis Mountain “OM”
Wellness Center in Asheville, NC, that it is advantageous to send our
program participants with substance mis-use problems to Dr. Bruno in Brazil.
I need some help in convincing our investors that this is a bona fide
therapy. Please advise.

Thanks,

Les

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 24, 2002 at 9:09:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For one thing, Steve, the Dutch government allows ibo to be used, but the
Christian Democrats were the impetus behind the new prohibitionist sentiment
there. That same sentiment is what keeps so many substances illegal here,
including ibogaine. This news that the Dutch government collapsed is good
news, but nobody’s too sure aobut the future there. Although Holland is
liberal and tolerant in regards to drug laws, the EU is not so much, and
things are getting tricky in this regard. If it all goes south, then there’s
yet less places where people can go to take ibogaine legally.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>

What is Dutch public affairs doing on this site? I signed up to save my life
with the help of Ibogaine. It is bad enough that Ibo is only rarely
mentioned but this politics crap is enough to get me to sign off for good.

Nothing personal Howard but there are a lot of desparate addicts out there
who need something to hope for, something different, something that might
work better than another detox and countless meetings.

Steve Diamond

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:58:34 EDT

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (Oct. 16) –  The Dutch government collapsed on
Wednesday over a ministerial feud between followers of murdered populist
Pim
Fortuyn, paving the way for elections that could relegate his chaotic party
to obscurity.

The coalition of Christian Democrats (CDA), VVD Liberals and the Pim
Fortuyn
List (LPF) crumbled after less than 100 days in office, the shortest-lived
Dutch government since World War Two.

The collapse sparked fears a lame-duck caretaker cabinet would be forced to
delay backing for the European Union’s eastward enlargement at a key
Brussels
summit next week until a new government is installed in The Hague after
fresh
elections.

But a Dutch government spokesman indicated the road to EU expansion would
be
unaffected once a caretaker government had secured parliamentary backing
for
the cabinet position.

A minority government could also be formed to stave off further
instability.

The government’s demise was precipitated by the resignation earlier on
Wednesday of LPF Deputy Prime Minister Eduard Bomhoff and Economics
Minister
Herman Heinsbroek, whose bitter differences have characterized their
divided
party.

”There is no basis for further fruitful and sustainable cooperation within
the coalition,” CDA Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende told parliament
before tendering the cabinet’s resignation to Queen Beatrix.

The LPF and VVD each had four ministers in the 14-seat cabinet formed in
July.

Polls show the party of shaven-headed gay maverick Fortuyn — who was
gunned
down only days before May elections — has hemorrhaged support since it
swept
into parliament and could face a drubbing in early elections expected
within
three months.

A new opinion poll on Wednesday showed the LPF could slump from 26 seats to
four in a new election, with the VVD the biggest beneficiary as it climbed
to
31 seats from its current 24. The CDA was seen adding six seats to its
current 43.

That would give the CDA and VVD a comfortable parliamentary majority
between
them, with 80 of the lower house’s 150 seats.

”I think voters have begun to regret the votes they cast (for the LPF),”
said VVD leader Gerrit Zalm. ”This shows how hard it is to work with a
party
that is constantly quarreling.”

FUNERAL PYRE

Political experts said the coalition — which pledged to crack down on
crime
and immigration and improve public services when it took office in July —
failed to overcome its internal difficulties to fulfill its ambitious
promises.

”Nothing got off the ground. I have the feeling I don’t know my own
country
any more,” said Henk Kummeling, a law professor at Utrecht University.

The LPF has struggled to fill the vacuum left after Fortuyn was shot dead
outside a radio station near Amsterdam. His death prompted a string of
power
struggles and confusion over party leadership.

”The LPF is brilliant at carrying wood to its own funeral pyre and
sometimes
even provides the matches,” LPF leader Mat Herben told parliament in The
Hague after a dramatic day in the Dutch political capital.

A bitter personal feud between LPF ministers Bomhoff and Heinsbroek had
been
simmering for weeks.

Heinsbroek, a swashbuckling entrepreneur with designer stubble, had been at
loggerheads with the more conservative Bomhoff over the direction and
leadership of the LPF since the two joined Balkenende’s cabinet in July.

”There was an incompatibility of personalities between me and Bomhoff,”
Heinsbroek told a news conference, saying he had resigned ”with pain in my
heart.”

”To my great regret, the developments of the last few days have
increasingly
created a situation in which it is impossible to work,” Bomhoff for his
part
told reporters in The Hague.

The conflict-riven party returned Mat Herben as its leader on Wednesday —
just before the cabinet decisively fell — only months after he was forced
to
step aside to make way for a former motoring magazine editor, Harry
Wijnschenk.

Herben had taken over the reins of the LPF after Fortuyn’s death and had
guided the party into coalition.

EU ENLARGEMENT

These are turbulent times for traditionally tranquil Dutch politics. The
last
government resigned en masse in April in delayed atonement for the
Netherlands’ role in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia.

The coalition had also struggled to overcome a deep rift over whether to
support proposals for 10 countries to join the European Union in 2004.

The EU executive said last week that former communist east European states
such as Poland and Hungary were ready to wrap up accession talks in
December
and join in 2004.

The foreign ministry spokesman said the Netherlands would make its position
clear at next week’s Brussels summit after the current government — or a
caretaker administration — had secured majority approval in parliament on
its position.

Publicly, EU leaders voiced confidence that the Netherlands would not block
enlargement.

Reut14:22 10-16-02

Copyright 2002 Reuters Limited.  All rights reserved.  Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means,
is
expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.  Reuters
shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any
actions taken in reliance thereon.

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 24, 2002 at 7:58:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is Dutch public affairs doing on this site? I signed up to save my life with the help of Ibogaine. It is bad enough that Ibo is only rarely mentioned but this politics crap is enough to get me to sign off for good.

Nothing personal Howard but there are a lot of desparate addicts out there who need something to hope for, something different, something that might work better than another detox and countless meetings.

Steve Diamond

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:58:34 EDT

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (Oct. 16) –  The Dutch government collapsed on
Wednesday over a ministerial feud between followers of murdered populist Pim
Fortuyn, paving the way for elections that could relegate his chaotic party
to obscurity.

The coalition of Christian Democrats (CDA), VVD Liberals and the Pim Fortuyn
List (LPF) crumbled after less than 100 days in office, the shortest-lived
Dutch government since World War Two.

The collapse sparked fears a lame-duck caretaker cabinet would be forced to
delay backing for the European Union’s eastward enlargement at a key Brussels
summit next week until a new government is installed in The Hague after fresh
elections.

But a Dutch government spokesman indicated the road to EU expansion would be
unaffected once a caretaker government had secured parliamentary backing for
the cabinet position.

A minority government could also be formed to stave off further instability.

The government’s demise was precipitated by the resignation earlier on
Wednesday of LPF Deputy Prime Minister Eduard Bomhoff and Economics Minister
Herman Heinsbroek, whose bitter differences have characterized their divided
party.

”There is no basis for further fruitful and sustainable cooperation within
the coalition,” CDA Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende told parliament
before tendering the cabinet’s resignation to Queen Beatrix.

The LPF and VVD each had four ministers in the 14-seat cabinet formed in July.

Polls show the party of shaven-headed gay maverick Fortuyn — who was gunned
down only days before May elections — has hemorrhaged support since it swept
into parliament and could face a drubbing in early elections expected within
three months.

A new opinion poll on Wednesday showed the LPF could slump from 26 seats to
four in a new election, with the VVD the biggest beneficiary as it climbed to
31 seats from its current 24. The CDA was seen adding six seats to its
current 43.

That would give the CDA and VVD a comfortable parliamentary majority between
them, with 80 of the lower house’s 150 seats.

”I think voters have begun to regret the votes they cast (for the LPF),”
said VVD leader Gerrit Zalm. ”This shows how hard it is to work with a party
that is constantly quarreling.”

FUNERAL PYRE

Political experts said the coalition — which pledged to crack down on crime
and immigration and improve public services when it took office in July —
failed to overcome its internal difficulties to fulfill its ambitious
promises.

”Nothing got off the ground. I have the feeling I don’t know my own country
any more,” said Henk Kummeling, a law professor at Utrecht University.

The LPF has struggled to fill the vacuum left after Fortuyn was shot dead
outside a radio station near Amsterdam. His death prompted a string of power
struggles and confusion over party leadership.

”The LPF is brilliant at carrying wood to its own funeral pyre and sometimes
even provides the matches,” LPF leader Mat Herben told parliament in The
Hague after a dramatic day in the Dutch political capital.

A bitter personal feud between LPF ministers Bomhoff and Heinsbroek had been
simmering for weeks.

Heinsbroek, a swashbuckling entrepreneur with designer stubble, had been at
loggerheads with the more conservative Bomhoff over the direction and
leadership of the LPF since the two joined Balkenende’s cabinet in July.

”There was an incompatibility of personalities between me and Bomhoff,”
Heinsbroek told a news conference, saying he had resigned ”with pain in my
heart.”

”To my great regret, the developments of the last few days have increasingly
created a situation in which it is impossible to work,” Bomhoff for his part
told reporters in The Hague.

The conflict-riven party returned Mat Herben as its leader on Wednesday —
just before the cabinet decisively fell — only months after he was forced to
step aside to make way for a former motoring magazine editor, Harry
Wijnschenk.

Herben had taken over the reins of the LPF after Fortuyn’s death and had
guided the party into coalition.

EU ENLARGEMENT

These are turbulent times for traditionally tranquil Dutch politics. The last
government resigned en masse in April in delayed atonement for the
Netherlands’ role in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia.

The coalition had also struggled to overcome a deep rift over whether to
support proposals for 10 countries to join the European Union in 2004.

The EU executive said last week that former communist east European states
such as Poland and Hungary were ready to wrap up accession talks in December
and join in 2004.

The foreign ministry spokesman said the Netherlands would make its position
clear at next week’s Brussels summit after the current government — or a
caretaker administration — had secured majority approval in parliament on
its position.

Publicly, EU leaders voiced confidence that the Netherlands would not block
enlargement.

Reut14:22 10-16-02

Copyright 2002 Reuters Limited.  All rights reserved.  Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is
expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.  Reuters
shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any
actions taken in reliance thereon.

_________________________________________________________________
Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 24, 2002 at 7:08:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What exactly is the difference between HCL and the new extract. From what’s been written here the old indra material was made 20 years or more ago and it is all from the same batch. What you’re doing is making new extract right? But if it’s 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract then the dosing levels that apply to indra would no longer apply to what you’ve got. You’d be somewhere between indra and HCL.

This is my impression from reading the messages so far and reading Marc Emery’s posts. Which indicate a total of 700mg, 750mg, 700mg then 400mg. For 2550mg total right? Kick ass magazine by the way bro, I dig Cannabis Culture 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp. wrote :
The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

>With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
>(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
>gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
>better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
>it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).
>

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Les Smith” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Testimony
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:15:43 PM EDT
To: “ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am trying to convince the Clinical Staff of the Oasis Mountain “OM” Wellness Center in Asheville, NC, that it is advantageous to send our program participants with substance mis-use problems to Dr. Bruno in Brazil. I need some help in convincing our investors that this is a bona fide therapy. Please advise.

Thanks,

Les

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:28:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the key is doing something with yourself bro. I don’t dis you and understand that the long emotional letters people write here a lot of the time are in their own way helpful to the people who write them and some who read them.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 Dave Parker wrote :

I enjoy reading this list because it is different then any drug list I have ever been on and I like the people here. I read Occams message and it made me think about a lot of things and then I read Mindvox and it made me want to ask so many questions. But none of my email is ever answered by anyone. Patrick you wrote a reply to Occams message and it was a great reply, people have reprinted and reposted it on the net and it was very thoughtful, reasonable, articulate. But I’m trying to understand a little more.

I don’t understand what Mindvox is exactly or what you’re all doing or even anything. You have symbols of chaos all over the place, chaos from what I’ve looked up is using black magic and light and accepting both. What does this mean for you? I’ve read your writing and you go from extremely intelligent and articualte to sensitive to writing a acid trip.

Reading your history and the history of here, you’re someone (Patrick) who hates the 12 steps and feel they kill people and miss no chance to give them the finger, you represent the libertarian party. Your partner’s dad started the village voice a ultra liberal democratic newspaper, he is someone who cleaned up using the 12 steps and represents them in world service, he votes republican and still supports george bush and john ashcroft. This was written to here in the near past, nobody contradicted it but nobody answered it.

The rest of your histories are nothing but this series of big disasters that never end. You have dead bodies, dead friends, lifelong drug addiction, lifelong legal problems. I’ve lost only one friend to drugs and it took me nearly 2 years of therapy to work through that. Does it just not effect you anymore after a certain level and you don’t feel it? But you must, because reading what you write you are very gifted at describing it, you do feel it.

This isn’t a letter to tell you you’re talented or kiss your ass, you look like you have more then enough people who already do that. But you don’t answer mail. What I need to know for myself and understand is how do you survive a life that is complete madness, stay off heroin and still find a way to connect to something positive like you write about in places. How do you do that? I understand the gallows humor and the funny jokes that are anything but funny, but that is only cynicism, that isn’t the purple you write about, that isn’t hope, that isn’t the connection you have.

My life is depressing for mundane simple reasons and I can’t pull out of it. How do you find that connection in a life that looks like nothing but pain, destruction, chaos? Or do you somehow connect there through what you’re doing? Is that part of what Mindvox is? Because otherwise I don’t understand. You have a site that right now on the graph is hitting 10,000. You have more people then I can imagine ever reading anything I have to say, pounding down your doors and wanting in and none of you look like you’re motivated by that at all or you would have opened it and starting selling something months ago as I think people here have mentioned so many times.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you release all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

Thank you for your time.

Dave

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:25:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have got to go with this one too. Peeps you’re done now. Play with the art forever for all I care, but this is beautiful, open the fucking site bro. The beta is holding.

You are done. If any of you were within reach of me I would pull you away from the computer, crackpipe, airbrush, same thing. It is time to just say no. You’re done. O p e n it 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 Vector Vector wrote :
I think they’re more interested in doing that art thing 🙂 Here are the
10 versions or so I know about so far from crashtestdummies offlist
mail. I’m sure there are probably 50 more but drew turned off listing
on his directories 🙁 I’m also sure in the next months there will be
another 25 before they figure out how it has to be. More sane people
might open it and then make changes as time goes by.

http://mindvox.com/~dross/new_guts/
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/mv03.html
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/MVOX-NEW-FORUM-GUI_MV03.jpg

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/
http://mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

Much more important would you people please finish Lexi Shafer’s site
already, she’s hot! 🙂

http://mindvox.com/~dross/re.jpg

My review. mv04 is beautiful. OPEN IT ALREADY!!!!!!!! And open Lexi 🙂

.:vector:.

— brendan22@hushmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Throwing that quote at google it’s a Charles Bukowski quote who is
> badass.
>
> >
> >That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that
> >true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you
> release
> >all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and
> >then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But
> >that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?
>
> DUH
>
> >
> >Thank you for your time.
> >
> >Dave
>
> Could I take this moment to remind mindvox that it should open soon.
> Could I take this moment to remind patrick he should finish his book
> soon.
> Could I take this moment to remind bruce that youre this close to
> rising from the ashes and that close to sitting in the ashes for
> another 5 years killing time.
> Could I take this moment to remind dross that he hasn’t sent me my 2
> posters in 2 weeks.
> Could I take this moment to get back to kazaa where I’m downloading.
>
>
>
>
> Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:21:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the funniest shit I’ve read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a day class here http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case Mindvox never finishes playing with art or objects and dot com doesn’t come back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the whole Mindvox story but it would probably be about as uplifting as say, Brazil, or perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of 12 Monkeys and the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las Vegas thrown in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this list,
> the
>Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a reflection
>on my
>immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand how
>the
>Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude photos
>all
>over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright sick
>I
>didn’t mean that last comment either.
>
>I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?
>
>.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:19:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro you should get around to this finally. I just re read these messages and it’s a great range of material. Your writing is kick ass and you know you’re the only person writing anything at all about holding it together after ibogaine. I know Mindvox is art and all, but at least put up some of your own material.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :

— Aktionman22@aol.com wrote:
> patrick
> where can i find your articls on addiction?
> marcus
>
>

I’m starting to feel like a secretary. I won’t mention
that it might be nice if Patrick put a addiction and
ibogaine section on Mindvox and at least reprinted his
own writings, since I already have 40 times 😉 And
it’s been promised and I guess everyone is busy making
sure it opens so I’ll just unload my bookmarks
instead.

The detoxing from ibogaine first article.

Publishing the link at ibogaine.co.uk since the layout
of heroin times makes my head hurt.

Ibogaine (from Heroin Times magazine, Feb 2001)

The much more real and less PR version which was
written to this list.

http://ibogaine.org/experience-mindvox.html

The addiction series.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

And two letters one which I think was with Dana Beal
and Howard Lotsof to a third person that Dana
published and spread around the net, the second one
was from this list. These are from some Libertarian
Party site where the owner has started printing a
ibogaine section.

http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine2.html

Somebody owes me at least coffee, ahem.. Lunch or
dinner and I’ll edit all of it and give you the html
so you don’t have to do anything except put it online
ok mr. I’m a genius who is dysfunctional? 😉

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:10:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, that would be a good explanation. Hash was realy helpful to me when I kicked heroin to pills to nothing. I do wish I’d had ibogaine back then instead of doing so later for spiritual reasons.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 MARC wrote :
Dana Beal called with the suggestion that my patient slept through much of
the ibogaine experience (He was very drowsy for 5 hours, then slept deeply
for 10 hours, and he’s been resting and eating like a horse since), because
of three powerful hash oil brownies I gave him the night before to sleep (it
knocked him out 12 hours, which is what happens with 3of these brownies).
Its possible the ibogaine in his stomach synergized with the THC in his
stomach/liver, and changed the experience, leaning toward comfort, sleep,
but as is true with marijuana consumers, no visualization.

However, half an hour ago, he blurted out. “You know by now I’d be running
out of the house to score, like I wouldn’t be able to take it by now…but I
feel fabulous and not stressed at all! ”

Boy, is he eating, he’s having fun eating, enjoying movies. I told him he’ll
have to practice doing pleasureable things.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

>
> In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:
>
> >Michele,
> >here is what happened yesterday:
>
> >At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
> >is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
> >remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).
>
> Marc,  I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
> mg.”  The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
> <snip>
>
> >consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into
> >
> >calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
> >(12
> >
> >hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
> >here.
> >
> >
> >
>
> >Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
> >through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
> contributed
> >to this result. He also commented that each individual responds
differently.
>
> Marc,  just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
> Thanks on that.  Would be very interested to have your report on what the
> subject thinks of his experience.  Or better yet, let him provide his own
> report to the mindvox ibogaine list.
>
> Howard
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 24, 2002 at 11:26:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Marc ,

after a treatment with me people start eating little by little after the
iboga trip ,

you must look to it that your friend has a good diet  and not eating like a
horse ,
fruit wouldn’t be too bad ,
It isn’t very good to be fasting and then eat a lot at once ,
this is wat I would like you to think about ,
also when he will go down from the iboga -hash high
he could get really down few weeks later , he should have still some support
as aftercare ,

take care,

Sara

—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

Dana Beal called with the suggestion that my patient slept through much of
the ibogaine experience (He was very drowsy for 5 hours, then slept deeply
for 10 hours, and he’s been resting and eating like a horse since),
because
of three powerful hash oil brownies I gave him the night before to sleep
(it
knocked him out 12 hours, which is what happens with 3of these brownies).
Its possible the ibogaine in his stomach synergized with the THC in his
stomach/liver, and changed the experience, leaning toward comfort, sleep,
but as is true with marijuana consumers, no visualization.

However, half an hour ago, he blurted out. “You know by now I’d be running
out of the house to score, like I wouldn’t be able to take it by now…but
I
feel fabulous and not stressed at all! ”

Boy, is he eating, he’s having fun eating, enjoying movies. I told him
he’ll
have to practice doing pleasureable things.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of
iboga
extract

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine,
the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).

Marc,  I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of
1
mg.”  The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
contributed
to this result. He also commented that each individual responds
differently.

Marc,  just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that.  Would be very interested to have your report on what
the
subject thinks of his experience.  Or better yet, let him provide his
own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 24, 2002 at 7:17:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Joshua, Joshua,
This is a great page. Thanks for posting this.
I’m currently waiting to try some of this stuff again, two different kinds, and will alert you all to my review, once written.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: Ibogaine
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me through the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

– jt

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 24, 2002 at 12:24:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanx carla for patrick’s addiction linx.
too bad the dysfunctional genius doesnt take you up on that offer. i would!

marcus

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 24, 2002 at 12:17:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana Beal called with the suggestion that my patient slept through much of
the ibogaine experience (He was very drowsy for 5 hours, then slept deeply
for 10 hours, and he’s been resting and eating like a horse since), because
of three powerful hash oil brownies I gave him the night before to sleep (it
knocked him out 12 hours, which is what happens with 3of these brownies).
Its possible the ibogaine in his stomach synergized with the THC in his
stomach/liver, and changed the experience, leaning toward comfort, sleep,
but as is true with marijuana consumers, no visualization.

However, half an hour ago, he blurted out. “You know by now I’d be running
out of the house to score, like I wouldn’t be able to take it by now…but I
feel fabulous and not stressed at all! ”

Boy, is he eating, he’s having fun eating, enjoying movies. I told him he’ll
have to practice doing pleasureable things.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).

Marc,  I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
mg.”  The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
contributed
to this result. He also commented that each individual responds
differently.

Marc,  just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that.  Would be very interested to have your report on what the
subject thinks of his experience.  Or better yet, let him provide his own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 23, 2002 at 10:18:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Aktionman22@aol.com wrote:
patrick
where can i find your articls on addiction?
marcus

I’m starting to feel like a secretary. I won’t mention
that it might be nice if Patrick put a addiction and
ibogaine section on Mindvox and at least reprinted his
own writings, since I already have 40 times 😉 And
it’s been promised and I guess everyone is busy making
sure it opens so I’ll just unload my bookmarks
instead.

The detoxing from ibogaine first article.

Publishing the link at ibogaine.co.uk since the layout
of heroin times makes my head hurt.

Ibogaine (from Heroin Times magazine, Feb 2001)

The much more real and less PR version which was
written to this list.

http://ibogaine.org/experience-mindvox.html

The addiction series.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

And two letters one which I think was with Dana Beal
and Howard Lotsof to a third person that Dana
published and spread around the net, the second one
was from this list. These are from some Libertarian
Party site where the owner has started printing a
ibogaine section.

http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine2.html

Somebody owes me at least coffee, ahem.. Lunch or
dinner and I’ll edit all of it and give you the html
so you don’t have to do anything except put it online
ok mr. I’m a genius who is dysfunctional? 😉

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 23, 2002 at 8:40:25 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me through the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

– jt

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] There is certainly light at the end of the tunnel.
Date: October 23, 2002 at 6:37:37 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston wrote
But best of luck with this endeavor. As someone, (like many here) I’ve gone through similar situations, and know how difficult it can be trying to get off the dope. So while I cannot exactly empathize with the ibogaine route, I can extend my best wishes in your and your son’s direction, and I do.
Andria responds
Yes, Isecond Preston sentiments with all my heart. Coming off dope is not east BUt as my galfriend said when i phoned her in desperation from detox, there is light at the end of the tunnel

Be strong, be hopeful
From ex-dopefiend in London U.K.

andria mordaunt

Peace,
Preston Peet

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] To answer Howard’s questions
Date: October 23, 2002 at 4:32:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I understand the iboga product I have, from enthnogarden, is, in its
constituents, of one gram, 550 mg – 650 mg. are of ibogaine, the other 350 –
450 mg. are of the other eleven alkaloids of the iboga. If I understand
correctly.

As of 1.20 p.m. Wednesday, 20 hours since first ingestion of first dose,
46.5 hours since patient had a narcotic, the patient is resting briefly now,
after being up and active for 5 hours. Is increasingly happier at
realization that there are no withdrawl symptoms. Wants to work with us on
this ibogaine. Can’t understand why neither he nor anyone he knows had ever
heard of ibogaine. Is getting a bit excited at his prospects. I asked him if
he wanted to go for a walk outside, its a remarkable day here, and he said
he was little weak for that, but he has been eating well, reading, thinking
about his prospects. He looks like he is on the verge of having  great fun,
if I can say that.

He is going to film school in January, has a non-addicted girlfriend, two
supportive foster parents (martin is 25, so thats great for them to help).

Have not recognized any withdrawl symptoms. One of our helpers is a former
heroin addict and says its quite something to see a narcotic addict 46 hours
after using go through no apparent discomfort or withdrawl. All five of us
in the crew are submilely amazed, meaning we saw it all, but its hard to
realize that this very addicted fellow seems now normal.

We will be with him for another 48 hours, to Friday morning, then we will
return him to his home.

Then we begin soliciting other candidates. We also have a seminar on
November 2 for any interested person, on iboga therapy.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).

Marc,  I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
mg.”  The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
contributed
to this result. He also commented that each individual responds
differently.

Marc,  just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that.  Would be very interested to have your report on what the
subject thinks of his experience.  Or better yet, let him provide his own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 23, 2002 at 3:27:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids).

Marc,  I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
mg.”  The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
contributed
to this result. He also commented that each individual responds differently.

Marc,  just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that.  Would be very interested to have your report on what the
subject thinks of his experience.  Or better yet, let him provide his own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 23, 2002 at 1:10:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Michele Kubby <michele@kubby.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Michele,

here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids) .

at 5.00 p.m., 700 mg enthogarden iboga TPA extract given
at 6.15 p.m. , second dose of 700 mg. iboga TPA extract given
at 7.15 p.m. , third dose of 750 mg. iboga TPA extract given,

7.45  p.m. subject vomits, contains part or all of third dose of iboga
extract.
Subject feels fine after vomit, readminister 400 mg of iboga extract
at 8.25 p.m. (now), subject is tired, resting, not seeing any visualization
at any time thus far.

From 5.15 onward, has been resting with eyes closed, little movement, pulse,
heartrate, all other signs normal. Subject has felt fine except for period
(2 minutes) of vomitting after 3 dose.

Now it is 11.30 p.m. It is 33 hours after the patient had heroin dose, three
and half hours after the final iboga extract dose. Patient has been sleeping
for last two hours, but has been relaxed for 6.5 hours, excepting a 2 minute
vomit episode earlier. We noticed he is dreaming now, as murmuring type
sounds are coming from him, and brain activity has been noticeable for the
first time during the procedure. No signs of discomfort or withdrawl. He has
consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went into
calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night (12
hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s here.

So far, so good.

Martin slept from 10.00 p.m. to 8.00 a.m., in normal relaxed sleep. Woke up hungry, feeling good, no signs of withdrawl, and at 10.00 a.m. is pleasantly watching a movie. It is 43 hours since last heroin use. No apparent withdrawl symptoms.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new, contributed to this result. He also commented that each individual responds differently.

Its a beautiful day, so the patient and my crew of helpers will go out for a walk around the oceanside seawall later today.

Marc Emery

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT interesting posters
Date: October 23, 2002 at 12:38:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.yellowtimes.org/illustration.php

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Here is what has happened so far viz. Marc Emery administration
Date: October 23, 2002 at 7:02:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not to post silliness or empty platitudes Marc,
But best of luck with this endeavor. As someone, (like many here) I’ve gone through similar situations, and know how difficult it can be trying to get off the dope. So while I cannot exactly empathize with the ibogaine route, I can extend my best wishes in your and your son’s direction, and I do.

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
to operate in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:20 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Here is what has happened so far viz. Marc Emery administration

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids) .

at 5.00 p.m., 700 mg enthogarden iboga TPA extract given
at 6.15 p.m. , second dose of 700 mg. iboga TPA extract given
at 7.15 p.m. , third dose of 750 mg. iboga TPA extract given,

7.45  p.m. subject vomits, contains part or all of third dose of iboga
extract.
Subject feels fine after vomit, readminister 400 mg of iboga extract
at 8.25 p.m. (now), subject is tired, resting, not seeing any visualization
at any time thus far.

From 5.15 onward, has been resting with eyes closed, little movement, pulse,
heartrate, all other signs normal. Subject has felt fine except for period
(2 minutes) of vomitting after 3 dose.

That is our situation to the present.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours

> How did it turn out please?
>
> Dave
> —
>
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:06:36
>  MARC wrote:
> >Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14
hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not
discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg
Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again,
reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at
5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700
milligram.
> >
> >Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg
of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70
kg.
> >
> >Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.
> >
> >Marc Emery
> >  —– Original Message —–
> >  From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
> >  To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >  Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:39 AM
> >  Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
> >
> >
> >  The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content
of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of
extract.
> >
> >  We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will
give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed
within one month.
> >
> >  As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
> >  We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
> >  We will post more results once we have them back.
> >
> >
> >  Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
> >  Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
> >  Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
> >  www.ethnogarden.com
> >  ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
> >
> >    —– Original Message —–
> >    From: HSLotsof@aol.com
> >    To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >    Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
> >    Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique
please.
> >
> >
> >
> >    In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:
> >
> >    >With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
> >    >(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
> >    >gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
> >    >better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
> >    >it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).
> >    >
> >
> >    I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of
total
> >    alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one
should
> >    administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a
person
> >    without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And
certainly not
> >    to a person being treated for chemical dependence.
> >
> >    Howard
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com
>
>

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 23, 2002 at 1:15:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay friends.

ahahahah. that’s the funniest thing i’ve read all day. thank you =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 23, 2002 at 12:36:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Ustanova Iboga wrote:

At 15:33 22.10.2002, you wrote:

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to
use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like
Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1
for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand
to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

Tell this to your government and prove it to them ;-))
Life on Earth would be MUCH better if you convince them!

Yeah…the government would have to start listening to reason and logic,
and i don’t forsee that happening any time in the near future…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 23, 2002 at 12:16:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

patrick
where can i find your articls on addiction?
marcus

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Here is what has happened so far viz. Marc Emery administration
Date: October 22, 2002 at 11:20:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram,  are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids) .

at 5.00 p.m., 700 mg enthogarden iboga TPA extract given
at 6.15 p.m. , second dose of 700 mg. iboga TPA extract given
at 7.15 p.m. , third dose of 750 mg. iboga TPA extract given,

7.45  p.m. subject vomits, contains part or all of third dose of iboga
extract.
Subject feels fine after vomit, readminister 400 mg of iboga extract
at 8.25 p.m. (now), subject is tired, resting, not seeing any visualization
at any time thus far.

From 5.15 onward, has been resting with eyes closed, little movement, pulse,
heartrate, all other signs normal. Subject has felt fine except for period
(2 minutes) of vomitting after 3 dose.

That is our situation to the present.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours

How did it turn out please?

Dave

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:06:36
MARC wrote:
Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14
hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not
discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg
Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again,
reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at
5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700
milligram.

Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg
of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70
kg.

Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content
of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of
extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will
give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed
within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique
please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of
total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one
should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a
person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And
certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 22, 2002 at 11:03:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a day class here http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case Mindvox never finishes playing with art or objects and dot com doesn’t come back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the whole Mindvox story but it would probably be about as uplifting as say, Brazil, or perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of 12 Monkeys and the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las Vegas thrown in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:37:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think he meant the treatment. But if he pledged money then I’m
guessing good 🙂

.:vector:.

Previous treatments had already turned out.

d

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:21:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this list, the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a reflection on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand how the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude photos all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright sick I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:17:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think they’re more interested in doing that art thing 🙂 Here are the
10 versions or so I know about so far from crashtestdummies offlist
mail. I’m sure there are probably 50 more but drew turned off listing
on his directories 🙁 I’m also sure in the next months there will be
another 25 before they figure out how it has to be. More sane people
might open it and then make changes as time goes by.

http://mindvox.com/~dross/new_guts/
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/mv03.html
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/MVOX-NEW-FORUM-GUI_MV03.jpg

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/
http://mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

Much more important would you people please finish Lexi Shafer’s site
already, she’s hot! 🙂

http://mindvox.com/~dross/re.jpg

My review. mv04 is beautiful. OPEN IT ALREADY!!!!!!!! And open Lexi 🙂

.:vector:.

— brendan22@hushmail.com wrote:

Throwing that quote at google it’s a Charles Bukowski quote who is
badass.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that
true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you
release
all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and
then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But
that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

DUH

Thank you for your time.

Dave

Could I take this moment to remind mindvox that it should open soon.
Could I take this moment to remind patrick he should finish his book
soon.
Could I take this moment to remind bruce that youre this close to
rising from the ashes and that close to sitting in the ashes for
another 5 years killing time.
Could I take this moment to remind dross that he hasn’t sent me my 2
posters in 2 weeks.
Could I take this moment to get back to kazaa where I’m downloading.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:09:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think he meant the treatment. But if he pledged money then I’m
guessing good 🙂

.:vector:.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
How did it turn out please?

Dave

He pledged money to Ibogaine conferences and forums.

Beats the system.

What doesn’t? Isn’t that the whole point of ibogaine itself?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:58:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How did it turn out please?

Dave

He pledged money to Ibogaine conferences and forums.

Beats the system.

Dana/cnw

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:53:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Throwing that quote at google it’s a Charles Bukowski quote who is badass.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that
true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you release
all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and
then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But
that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

DUH

Thank you for your time.

Dave

Could I take this moment to remind mindvox that it should open soon. Could I take this moment to remind patrick he should finish his book soon.
Could I take this moment to remind bruce that youre this close to rising from the ashes and that close to sitting in the ashes for another 5 years killing time.
Could I take this moment to remind dross that he hasn’t sent me my 2 posters in 2 weeks.
Could I take this moment to get back to kazaa where I’m downloading.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Congressional Bumtrip
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:53:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Jeff Jones <jeffj@rxcbc.org>
Subject: Fwd: DPFCA: Salvia Divinorum Targeted by Cal.Congressmen
Status:

FYI
Please act this interest you

From: Dale Gieringer <canorml@igc.org>

*****************************************************
Federal Bill by Rep. Baca, Napolitano Seeks to Outlaw Salvia Divinorum
*****************************************************
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/salvia_divinorum_action_center.htm
—————————————————–

A bill (HR 5607) introduced in Congress on October 10, seeks to make the
Mazatec ceremonial plant Salvia divinorum and its active principle
Salvinorin A the next outlawed drugs under federal law. The Center for
Cognitive Liberty & Ethics (ccle) is organizing and preparing opposition
to HR 5607, and is also calling upon all interested people to express
their opposition to this unwarranted extension of the US war on drugs.

*** THE BILL IS SPONSORED BY TWO CALIFORNIANS, REP. JOE BACA (San
Bernardino) and GRACE NAPALITANO (Montebello).
Rep. Baca is at 202-225-6161/FAX 202-225-6918
Rep. Napolitano is 202-225-5256/FAX 202-225-0027

Read More at
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/salvia_divinorum_action_center.htm

Please forward this message to others who may be interested.

To Subscribe send a blank e-mail to:
cognitiveliberty-subscribe@igc.topica.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HOW TO SUPPORT THE CCLE
The Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics, is entirely funded by
grants and the contributions of members and allies. Your
contribution is necessary to continue our efforts to foster
cognitive freedom and autonomy. All donations are tax-deductible. To
become a member or to make a donation, please visit:
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/membership.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

—————————————————————————
Attachment: http://www.drugsense.org/temp/part2536.html

—-
Dale Gieringer (415) 563-5858  // canorml@igc.org
2215-R Market St. #278, San Francisco CA 94114

Jeff Jones
Officer of the City of Oakland for the Oakland Cannabis Buyers’ Cooperative
PO Box 70401 Oakland, CA 94612
(510) 832-5346 Fax (510) 986-0534  www.rxcbc.org  jeffj@rxcbc.org

Our online store can be found here http://www.legalcannabis.com

Our online library of OCBC federal civil case legal briefs
http://www.druglibrary.org/ocbc/

Support our ongoing Federal Civil Court case, visit and donate
https://www.rxcbc.org/support/ldf_support.php

From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:45:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How did it turn out please?

Dave

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:06:36
MARC wrote:
Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14 hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again, reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at 5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700 milligram.

Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70 kg.

Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:43:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I enjoy reading this list because it is different then any drug list I have ever been on and I like the people here. I read Occams message and it made me think about a lot of things and then I read Mindvox and it made me want to ask so many questions. But none of my email is ever answered by anyone. Patrick you wrote a reply to Occams message and it was a great reply, people have reprinted and reposted it on the net and it was very thoughtful, reasonable, articulate. But I’m trying to understand a little more.

I don’t understand what Mindvox is exactly or what you’re all doing or even anything. You have symbols of chaos all over the place, chaos from what I’ve looked up is using black magic and light and accepting both. What does this mean for you? I’ve read your writing and you go from extremely intelligent and articualte to sensitive to writing a acid trip.

Reading your history and the history of here, you’re someone (Patrick) who hates the 12 steps and feel they kill people and miss no chance to give them the finger, you represent the libertarian party. Your partner’s dad started the village voice a ultra liberal democratic newspaper, he is someone who cleaned up using the 12 steps and represents them in world service, he votes republican and still supports george bush and john ashcroft. This was written to here in the near past, nobody contradicted it but nobody answered it.

The rest of your histories are nothing but this series of big disasters that never end. You have dead bodies, dead friends, lifelong drug addiction, lifelong legal problems. I’ve lost only one friend to drugs and it took me nearly 2 years of therapy to work through that. Does it just not effect you anymore after a certain level and you don’t feel it? But you must, because reading what you write you are very gifted at describing it, you do feel it.

This isn’t a letter to tell you you’re talented or kiss your ass, you look like you have more then enough people who already do that. But you don’t answer mail. What I need to know for myself and understand is how do you survive a life that is complete madness, stay off heroin and still find a way to connect to something positive like you write about in places. How do you do that? I understand the gallows humor and the funny jokes that are anything but funny, but that is only cynicism, that isn’t the purple you write about, that isn’t hope, that isn’t the connection you have.

My life is depressing for mundane simple reasons and I can’t pull out of it. How do you find that connection in a life that looks like nothing but pain, destruction, chaos? Or do you somehow connect there through what you’re doing? Is that part of what Mindvox is? Because otherwise I don’t understand. You have a site that right now on the graph is hitting 10,000. You have more people then I can imagine ever reading anything I have to say, pounding down your doors and wanting in and none of you look like you’re motivated by that at all or you would have opened it and starting selling something months ago as I think people here have mentioned so many times.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you release all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

Thank you for your time.

Dave

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Forum at 127 th St (near IRT) just $10 Sat. morn. Nov 16
Date: October 22, 2002 at 7:24:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Proposed  Schedule, for Saturday morning and early afternoon, November 16th, 2002.

“HARLEM BUILDS NYC SUPPORT FOR IBOGAINE ACCESS”…A FORUM & SLIDESHOW

In the Dempsey Center Auditorium 127 W. 127th St.

Take the IRT 2 or 3 at W. 125th St. and Malcolm X Blvd/Lennox Avenue

Moderator introduction                 10              9:00 –  9:10
Playthell Benjamin                       30              9:10 –  9:40
Emmanuel Onaivi                           30              9:40 – 10:10
Awolowo Johnson                           30                10:10 – 10:40
Kenneth Alper                                30                10:40 – 11:10
Elombe Brath                                 30                11:10 – 11:40 (invited, not confirmed)
Gen Discussion/Moderator intro   90                11:40 –   1:30
Moderator Close                             10                1:30 –   1:40
(Any unused time will go into the General Panel and audience discussion at
the end of the forum.  If enough audience are present at 9:00 am, the Discussion section could
go a half hour longer.)

The Dempsey Center can accommodate more than 400 people.

This forum is to be announced on KISS FM.

As of yesterday’s Ibogaine Working Group meeting the Contract has been
received.

For more info call

Rommel Washington at 212-304-0035 (Benu Project)

or Dana Beal at 212-677-7180 (Cures not Wars)

Howard Lotsof, coordinator, Citywide Ibogaine Conference Feb 7, 8th, 2003

P.S.:

Other Ibogaine events now scheduled include:

San Francisco: November 29, 30

Panel at Seattle Harm Reduction Conference Dec.2th

Paris: December 6 (re-scheduled from Nov. 22).

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 2:06:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14 hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again, reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at 5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700 milligram.

Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70 kg.

Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

>With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
>(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
>gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
>better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
>it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).
>

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 22, 2002 at 1:29:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 15:33 22.10.2002, you wrote:

> Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to
> use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like
> Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1
> for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand
> to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

Tell this to your government and prove it to them ;-))
Life on Earth would be MUCH better if you convince them!

Marko

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:33:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to
use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like
Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1
for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand
to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

well, there is some evidence that there may have been humans developing in
southeast asia around the same time they were developing in africa, but
there is only preliminary evidence for that…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 22, 2002 at 8:43:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

Unless you are very high profile by which I mean there are people on the net who want to make a reputation for themselves by destroying your system because you’re somebody “important” then I’d use whatever you like to read email with and get virus checking. That was sound advice. Try to make sure you have the latest updates and patches, try not to run Microsoft products but if you have to then try to run at least NT2K or XP which have some kind of file permissions no matter how bad they are. Disable software install permissions for all users except administrator and then log in using a user account, not the admin account.

one more point, if you do feel the perverse need to run XP, make sure you
get all the available service packs. without these, running XP is
essentially like having a big neon sign that says “Hackers, please butt
rape me”  =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 22, 2002 at 8:30:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Jack Honeycutt wrote:

eudora is actually a euphamism for “please hack me”…

Not according to the tests done by PC Magazine.  It appears that the most
common “hacks” are with Microsoft email programs and Eudora is not
that.  It rated quite well in that dept.

But I am always open to learn something new.  If you can site a study,
article, or review that talks about Eudora being hacked, I would enjoy
reading it.

I’m just speaking from my experience working here at the UMBC Office of
Info Tech….eudora is CONSTANTLY having problems with ssl, in fact its
rare that we can get the two to play nice together.

of course, you really shouldn’t be using an html MUA in the first place..
which is why i try to push mutt or pine
=)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 22, 2002 at 8:18:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 16:26 19.10.2002, you wrote:
At 03:48 19.10.2002, you wrote:

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Hi Dana,

have you seen Mario Van Peebles’s movie Panther? According to it, BPP was basically destroyed because of FBI infiltration, and FBI agents were responsible for bringing heroin into ghettos (with genereous help of mafia), so the movement died out.

Maybe it’s time that the same organization brings cure into ghettos? Would be great, possibly without “help” of government agents this time 😉

Marko

They’re still around. And some of them relate to Ibo. This Unitarian thing could be good for extending the Sacrament of Transition.

Dana/cnw

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1 for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand to government?

Marko

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list
Date: October 22, 2002 at 5:36:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi.. Your name and e-mail showed up on my mail from ibogaine so perhaps you
are already listed.  Don’t know for sure but check your mail maybe.
Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: chimp@zwallet.com <chimp@zwallet.com>
Date: Tuesday, 22 October 2002 10:10
Subject: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list

hi patrick just sending you another email about the ibogaine list my name
is bernard chimp@zwallet.com please reply

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [SalviaD_Alliance] The 1st Salvia Statement is online
Date: October 21, 2002 at 11:24:45 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “slavaO” <webmaster@salviadivinorumcorps.org>

http://www.salviadivinorumcorps.org/statements/index.html

Come tomorrow and post yours. Initially, I will enable the automated
posting to SBC members (password protected). Others who would wish to
post will still need to send their statements to me and I will post
them manually.

Slava

First statement:

http://www.salviadivinorumcorps.org/statements/1.shtml

William Arden Ruth’s statement.

This is a public statement directed to whom it may concern, regarding the
changes the psychoactive plant Salvia divinorum has made in my life. I write
this statement at this point in time because Salvia divinorum is currently
under consideration to be made into a Schedule I ‘drug’.

At the time of this writing, October 2002, Salvia divinorum is still legal
in the United States. As the nation of Australia has banned Salvia divinorum
June 2002 there is a very real possibility that the U.S. Food and Drug
Administration as well as the Drug Enforcement Administration may feel
compelled to follow Australia’s lead and ban Salvia divinorum in the United
States; in fact, two Democratic legislators from California introduced on
October 10, 2002 a bill to Congress to do just that.

Personal background: I am a 49-year-old man, married for 22 years, a
homeowner, gainfully employed and with diversified interests and skills
vocationally and avocationally, including prehospital medicine, having been
a practicing paramedic for 20 years and an Emergency Medical Technician
instructor for 15 years. I have a good reputation in my community, and my
friends include a computer systems analyst, police officers, a Presbyterian
clergyman, schoolteachers, nurses, paramedics, firefighters, a
planetarium/observatory director, and electrical engineers.

With such a respectable reputation, you may wonder why I ever decided to
experiment with Salvia divinorum, a psychoactive plant. The reason lies with
my primary interest and skill, which is contemplation of the mystery of
sentient existence. My entire life has been one characterized by
introspection, reflection, and self-awareness. Ever since childhood, I have
been asking the ‘big questions’: Who am I? How is it that we, or anything,
exists? What makes me different from ‘others’? How do ‘others’ experience
their existence? What would it feel like to be someone else? What is our
relationship to the universe?

As the innocence of my childhood was gradually degraded by the cultural
conditioning of American urban-industrial society, I became a very unhappy
adolescent and adult, coming of age in the midst of the Vietnam War and
Watergate. I came to realize that those who happened to rise to positions of
authority do not necessarily possess the wisdom or integrity to be worthy of
their power to make and enforce laws.

And so it is today. There are those who would now declare a psychoactive
mint plant used over the centuries by indigenous Mexican people for healing
and religious experiences to be off-limits to those who would want to go
beyond the limitations of conceptual thinking and cultural conditioning.

Salvia divinorum has given me unforgettable experiences of deep meaning and
healing, enabling me to understand better my relationship to the web of
life, the ground of being. To deny anyone sufficiently mature to appreciate
the special powers of this plant would be an abuse of power, a restriction
of others’ personal freedom which is incompatible with ‘life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness.’ Salvia has, literally, brought me back to life,
and freedom, and has helped lead me to something even better than happiness:
clarity of mind, and inner peace. These persisting benefits are not
Salvia-dependent. I will always remember, and cherish, and be profoundly
grateful, for what Salvia has helped me be able to see. The deeper
understanding from the perspective enhancement Salvia has provided me is
indelible. I see the unity of life, the sacredness of all life, as the
blinders of cultural conditioning fall away from my eyes. Salvia tells the
truth, and goes beyond all human concepts of truth: Salvia takes us to the
living truth, which is a healing experience, and a revelation.

Individual life is short and uncertain. In our brief time as human beings we
have the opportunity to understand, to the limits of our abilities, the
mystery of being; Salvia helps extend our abilities in this regard. That
from which we all come, That to which we all return, awaits us; to want to
better understand That, to experience the nature of That eternal being, to
commune with That, to surrender to That, is everyone’s birthright. Salvia
divinorum, a living plant which somehow facilitates a better awareness of
That which lives in us as us–the eternal being, no less–is a religious
sacrament that is outlawed only by an ignorant, fearful body politic that
does not tolerate individuals penetrating the veil of its dominant cultural
conditioning.

When I first experienced Salvia divinorum in April 2000 I knew it was a
genuine entheogen, the most therapeutic of teacher-plants. I was so deeply
affected by the Salvia experience that I made a vow to stand up for this
plant if there ever came a time a heedless authoritarian force attempted to
make it illegal. That time has now come. Human ignorance and fear,
legislators in the throes of the prevailing cultural conditioning, now want
to take away one of the effective tools individuals can use to enhance
consciousness. It is sad to see how nicotine and alcohol, which are
addictive, cause disease and diminish consciousness, are legal and socially
acceptable; how prescription psychoactive drugs keep drug companies wealthy
and the populace compliant and dependent; and how a humble plant that is
nontoxic, nonaddicting and consciousness-enhancing is at risk of being
turned into a Schedule I ‘drug’, the same legal status as heroin. This is
not just. This is not necessary.

Does Salvia divinorum, used wisely, cause harm to the user or to anyone
else? NO.

Does turning Salvia divinorum into a Schedule I ‘drug’ cause harm to others?
YES. Arrest and incarceration ruins careers, destroys families, deprives
individuals of rights and liberty.

I have lived long enough to see this country turn into an
ever-more-repressive regime. The tribe, the family of man, is being
superseded by the police state. A bleak totalitarian future is taking shape,
and at hand.

My personal, therapeutic, transcendental use of a humble Mexican entheogen
is nobody’s business but my own; that it’s about to become Big Brother’s
business bodes ill for the citizens of the so-called Land of the Free.

Ingesting a particular plant that helps me want to be a better person, to
live more in accordance with the vision the plant provides, is an act of
worship, not a criminal act. If the day ever came where I was persecuted for
sharing this plant’s life with my own, I will know that I am in fact being
persecuted for religious reasons. I write this now as a free citizen. I hope
I never have to write from a jail cell. The truth that Salvia reveals is
eternal, and universal, and can never be suppressed, although many will try.
To be at risk of imprisonment for wanting to see the truth more clearly and
deeply is a sign of a fearful and ignorant time. At least I have lived long
enough to known inner peace, spiritual freedom, and relief from my own
ignorance and fear, to have had the opportunity to know Salvia divinorum, a
beneficent plant that has enriched my life and understanding in ways beyond
all words or measure.

May all people find the peace, wisdom and love of the spirit, the life of
all lives.

William Arden Ruth

Oberlin, Ohio
October 21, 2002

Please, visit Salvia Divinorum Alliance organization web site:
http://www.salviadivinorumcorps.org You are welcomed to participate in all
its activities.

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un kina IA
Date: October 21, 2002 at 10:49:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m in complete agreement, Nick.  When the veil is at its thinnest, a
western wiccan concept, at all hallows, is VERY ebokan, to me.  It
also accords with the “Day of the Dead” in mesoamerican cultures,
etc.
Miss ya!  Love, Jane

Yes, around now will be a very potent time for all things
iboga-esque. After
tomorrow’s full moon, with the moon moving into Taurus and the sun
into its
cojoint Scorpio, and for about a month afterward, the veil between
the
physical and the Bwiti’s Land of the Ancestors will indeed be very
light.
Might be worth burning some iboga rootbark on Samhain [s’wain], Oct
31st,
the Celtic New Year, if you’re treating people with ibogaine, with
the
request that the great spirit doesn’t cause any of your punters to
move from
one side of the veil to the other in the coming year.

Just a thought

Nick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 21, 2002 at 9:01:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Eudora isn’t that bad, Pegasus mail is more secure but lacking in features, most programs are lacking in features when you compare them to Outlook.

If you look at what most hackers or former hackers are using for their email the #1 mail program is mutt. This is because it’s extremely configurable, encryption fits right in, scripting fits right in, you can fork whatever you want, you have complete control and it is still under active development if you look at Patrick’s headers everything he sends comes out of mutt. I would guess that Mindvox is hit with everything and the kitchen sink every day. None of it is ever going to do anything to mutt when run from a properly configured account under any properly secured unix. Choices 2 and 3 are pine and elm for the diehard won’t change people.

These aren’t practical options unless you want to devote a lot of your time to learning unix and pop your mail to a unix shell account somewhere. The most practical advice is to have a virus checker that auto updates itself and hope that you aren’t one of the first people hit with a new virus.

I forget the link but it’s linked from Mindvox, there are tools called fuzzers one of which is Spike, which does nothing except try to blow holes through a operating system. Every time one is patched someone finds 10 new ones. This is especially true of Microsoft where the entire OS is closed and patched together. Nearly every program on that script kiddie list that Brendan posted automatically kills virus checking out of the registry, pops up the “checking for new updates” messages so it looks like it’s still doing something and then looks for the firewall and disables it so your computer is wide open, infected and taken over. And you don’t know it until it’s very late.

Unless you are very high profile by which I mean there are people on the net who want to make a reputation for themselves by destroying your system because you’re somebody “important” then I’d use whatever you like to read email with and get virus checking. That was sound advice. Try to make sure you have the latest updates and patches, try not to run Microsoft products but if you have to then try to run at least NT2K or XP which have some kind of file permissions no matter how bad they are. Disable software install permissions for all users except administrator and then log in using a user account, not the admin account.

Windows 95 and 98 cannot be secured in any reasonable way. If you’re in front of the computer or have a program running on it then you own that entire computer and all the processes. There is no security.

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued
up on
computer talk and walk in general.  If you don’t want to use Outlook
or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use.  Would be good to
hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??:   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: Ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 21 October 2002 12:20
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joshua Tinnin wrote:

Yeah, that’s cute. Base64-encoded html attachment to launch something
in
an

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Jack Honeycutt” <jhoneycutt@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:27:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 10:26 AM 10/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> Started in the 1980’s before the World Wide Web was invented, Eudora was
> the default email program that all of us used long ago.  It is still in use
> today, but slipping in PC Magazines poll of best email programs, although
> it still has a good showing.

eudora is actually a euphamism for “please hack me”…

Not according to the tests done by PC Magazine.  It appears that the most common “hacks” are with Microsoft email programs and Eudora is not that.  It rated quite well in that dept.

But I am always open to learn something new.  If you can site a study, article, or review that talks about Eudora being hacked, I would enjoy reading it.

Thanks

jack

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list
Date: October 21, 2002 at 6:02:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bernard,

you’re ON the list ;-))

Marko

At 22:40 21.10.2002, you wrote:
hi patrick just sending you another email about the ibogaine list my name is bernard chimp@zwallet.com please reply

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list
Date: October 21, 2002 at 4:40:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: chimp@zwallet.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi patrick just sending you another email about the ibogaine list my name is bernard chimp@zwallet.com please reply

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 1:42:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

Indra extract is a spagyric, prepared according to the method of Paracelsus. Additionally, it is zapped with red light, which rotates the molecule so that it produces less nausea, and a better high. Ibogaine alkaloids are light sensitive, like melatonin.

Dana/cnw

Dana/cnw

From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 12:39:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

>With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
>(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
>gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
>better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
>it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).
>

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 12:08:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused.  The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains.  No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga.  And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 11:27:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They concentrated 16 grams of ibogane root bark into 1
gram of extract not 1/16th. When I stated 1:1 it was
that the resulting extract was suppose to be a mg for
mg replacement of ibogaine HCL, not 1/16th. According
to Ethnogardens site 1 gram of their extract contained
660 mg of ibogaine PLUS the rest of the total plant
alkaloid mix – TPA or was that PTA (total plant
alkaloid)? However it appears that their product is
not a mg for mg replacement for ibogaine HCI but
roughly 3/5th (my guestimate) as strong as ibogaine
HCL. With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

Brett
— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/20/02 11:20:20 PM,
bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Ethnogarden contacted me about the extract being
used.
There seems to be some confusion (on my part?)
about
the dosage/potency of their 16:1 extract, I have
asked
them to contact me/the list about dosages/potency
(etc). It appears to me that at 16:1 almost 3.95
grams
of their extract is high, appearances can be
deceiving… (eg at 16:1 it comes to over 63 gm of
root bark or that is what it looks like) or in the
case of a 68kg person 3.95gm (total suggested)
comes
to 58mg/kg which is still over the dosage range
they
just gave me of 35-45mg/kg for their extract –
initially I was told it was 1:1 to ibogaine HCL –
so
there is some confusion that needs to be cleared
up.

I am not familiar with the 16:1 product at all but,
let me comment on the
numbers.  Potency is 1/16 and that is equivalent to
.0625%.  3.95 grams =
3950 mgs.  3950 mgs x .0625 = 190.62 mgs alkaloid
content.  190.62 mg divided
by 68 kg patient weight = 2.8 mg/kg.  I think the
1:1 ratio you talk of may
indicate that the alkaloid mixture is equal parts of
ibogaine and other iboga
alkaloids.  You might want to confirm this with
Ethnogarden.  I believe that
a chemical analysis of the indra product (5:1)
showed 8% ibogaine and 8%
other iboga alkaloids but, possibly Marko who I
believe had the analysis
performed can comment.

Nick Sandberg in the ibogaine manual
<www.ibogaine.org/manual.html> was
concerned that persons who confuse the strengths of
ibogaine and the crude
extracts to the detrement of their subjects.  This
certainly is a valid
concern and Ibogaine should not be administered
until you have an
understanding of what exactly you are administering.

Howard

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 21, 2002 at 10:26:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Jack Honeycutt wrote:

At 10:51 PM 10/21/2002 +1300, you wrote:

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued up on
computer talk and walk in general.  If you don’t want to use Outlook or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use.  Would be good to hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??:   Allison

Started in the 1980’s before the World Wide Web was invented, Eudora was
the default email program that all of us used long ago.  It is still in use
today, but slipping in PC Magazines poll of best email programs, although
it still has a good showing.

eudora is actually a euphamism for “please hack me”…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 21, 2002 at 10:11:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Alison Senepart wrote:

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued up on
computer talk and walk in general.  If you don’t want to use Outlook or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use.  Would be good to hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??:   Allison

mutt!!

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:58:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/20/02 11:20:20 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Ethnogarden contacted me about the extract being used.
There seems to be some confusion (on my part?) about
the dosage/potency of their 16:1 extract, I have asked
them to contact me/the list about dosages/potency
(etc). It appears to me that at 16:1 almost 3.95 grams
of their extract is high, appearances can be
deceiving… (eg at 16:1 it comes to over 63 gm of
root bark or that is what it looks like) or in the
case of a 68kg person 3.95gm (total suggested) comes
to 58mg/kg which is still over the dosage range they
just gave me of 35-45mg/kg for their extract –
initially I was told it was 1:1 to ibogaine HCL – so
there is some confusion that needs to be cleared up.

I am not familiar with the 16:1 product at all but, let me comment on the
numbers.  Potency is 1/16 and that is equivalent to .0625%.  3.95 grams =
3950 mgs.  3950 mgs x .0625 = 190.62 mgs alkaloid content.  190.62 mg divided
by 68 kg patient weight = 2.8 mg/kg.  I think the 1:1 ratio you talk of may
indicate that the alkaloid mixture is equal parts of ibogaine and other iboga
alkaloids.  You might want to confirm this with Ethnogarden.  I believe that
a chemical analysis of the indra product (5:1) showed 8% ibogaine and 8%
other iboga alkaloids but, possibly Marko who I believe had the analysis
performed can comment.

Nick Sandberg in the ibogaine manual <www.ibogaine.org/manual.html> was
concerned that persons who confuse the strengths of ibogaine and the crude
extracts to the detrement of their subjects.  This certainly is a valid
concern and Ibogaine should not be administered until you have an
understanding of what exactly you are administering.

Howard

From: “Jack Honeycutt” <jhoneycutt@qwest.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:56:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 10:51 PM 10/21/2002 +1300, you wrote:

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued up on
computer talk and walk in general.  If you don’t want to use Outlook or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use.  Would be good to hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??:   Allison

Started in the 1980’s before the World Wide Web was invented, Eudora was the default email program that all of us used long ago.  It is still in use today, but slipping in PC Magazines poll of best email programs, although it still has a good showing.

In the old days, you could get Eudora free with out a spell checker.  And if you look around on shareware places you might still find it.  Eudora sells it in two modes now.  One is free, but it puts small ads in it, and the other is paid where the ads disappear.  I think you can buy the add free CD in a box for about $50, or just run the free one. They no longer post the small free, one with out a spell checker on the Eudora web site (I don’t think), but you can check.

http://www.eudora.com/

Many years ago, when the web first started, your ISP would give you one 1.44 floppy and it would have a copy of Netscpae and Eudora on it.

jack

From: HSL123@aol.com
Subject: Re: [IBOGAINE] a true story ,
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:36:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl

In a message dated 10/14/02 4:53:22 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

The West Africans people told me that the kolanut was used in  all ceremonies
when a baby is born everyone get to chew a little kolanut  to bring peace
in house , it was used as Alcohol in our culture for celebration and
festivals. to
be able to stay awake and dance all night .

This use is also sited in the Samorini article, The Bwiti Religion and the
psychoactive plant Tabernanthe iboga,
<http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/samorini.html>.

Howard
_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
ibogaine mailing list
ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 7:36:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heart rate and blood pressure monitoring.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

marc420emery@shaw.ca 10/19/02 03:20AM >>>
Re: UU front
Hello everyone, my name is Marc Emery.

My adopted son, a heroin and methadone addict for 4 years, along with
his girlfriend of 4 years (also addicted), were administered iboga
(3,800 mg whole extract, for my son, 2,800 mg. for the woman) 25 days
ago. I saw them at day 21, the transformation from hollowed, gaunt,
dazed lethargy (and all those illnesses!), into healthy, robust
individuals. I was staggered.

An employee of mine, I sent to Amsterdam three years ago, to Sara
Glatt for whole iboga extract, my first person I assisted to get
treatment. (Woman, 82 kg, 5,000 mg.)

In four days, I will administer 4,000 mg. whole iboga extract to a 20
year old, poly addicted (cocaine/heroin) male. This is my first time
administering this substance, though I have procured the extract for my
son and his friend, financed and arranged Amsterdam therapy visits for
an employee. I have read about 250pages of the literature in the
Ibogaine Dossier and other web sites.

I have talked alot to Dana Beal, a little to Dr. Malemede.

So I want anyone toadd suggestions to my intended plan:

Martin fixes, Monday 2.00  p.m.

Comes to my place. Hangs out. No food or eating except a litle fruit
or small amount only. Interact with Martin, talk about the next day,
talk about music. Watch Poyaqquatsi. Go to bed at midnight.

Martin wakes at 8.00, showers, gets comfortable.

At  2.00 p.m. , 150 mg Extract in gel cap administered to see adverse
reaction.

An hour later,  administer  1,200 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk (5.00
p.m.)

Room kept fairly dark after onset. Pail for urination at the bedside,
washroom nearby.
3 attendents total ,organized in 8 hour shifts. Hydration necessary,
Over the next period of visualizations and experience, observe any
unusual reactions.

———

Any comments please?

Thanks,

Marc Emery

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 21, 2002 at 5:51:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued up on
computer talk and walk in general.  If you don’t want to use Outlook or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use.  Would be good to hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??:   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: Ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 21 October 2002 12:20
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joshua Tinnin wrote:

Yeah, that’s cute. Base64-encoded html attachment to launch something in
an
iFrame, I would assume, but am not bothering to decode it.

Sygate and ZoneAlarm make decent, free firewalls, and both are better
than
BlackIce (which is not free), and AVG makes great, free anti-virus
software
… or, as Patrick mentioned, don’t use Billy Gate’s bastard child of an
OS,
or use something other than Outlook or Outlook Express for email. Unless
you
really have to, as I do, unfortunately. Newbies with Linux can have
massive
security holes in their schtuff as well, but won’t get into that too
much.
Just learn how to use it if you have it.

Free Stuff that helps the situation with Windoze:

Sygate Personal Firewall – http://soho.sygate.com/products/shield_ov.htm

ZoneAlarm fireall – http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/home.jsp

(btw, you only need one firewall, and using two at once can cause
problems)

AVG Anti-Virus – http://www.grisoft.com/

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

We haven’t opened the additional lists yet, since the beta is finally
stable and not FLYING out of anything.  Basically this means the Vox list
will be absorbed therein; and ibogaine and drugwar will continue as they
are now, and get gently blended into the mix once it is HIGHLY stable,
and
we’re sure nothing will be disrupted.

I will toss an endline onto the messages, and make it simpler for the
terminally brain dead to unsubscribe, in the near future — meaning;
coming no later than 2004.

– – – – – – – – –

On another topic.  The lists are closed, this means that most spam,
viruses, shit like that, gets stripped out and does not land here.

However, there are various script kiddies sending out crap and
cross-posting it — or attempting to anyway.

Fer instance, this:

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100
From: HSL123 <HSL123@aol.com>
Subject: Sep 12 2002 19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(Which was filtered out).  Is Howard’s email address that he uses to post
to calyx, with someone attempting to spoof it to [Here].  And where it
actually comes from is:

<skript kiddie crap snipped>

^^^ Alla that will do absolutely nothing to a Unix box, Mac, or any
machine which isn’t running Windoze and/or Outlook.

If you are using Windoze and POP to Outlook, or read shit in IE5/6, then
it’s a REALLY EXCELLENT idea to have Norton anti-virus, or sumthin’ of
that nature, or you will eventually be sorry.

Basically, to put it into laymen’s terms: Windoze is a pile of shit virus
magnet, and Outlook is swiss cheese.

Just mentioning,

Patrick

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander        userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [IBOGAINE] inspiration
Date: October 21, 2002 at 5:26:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl

Iboga inspiration during the trip ,

” the snake carry’s the spirit but the snake isn’t the spirit ,”

“People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul.” 
  
                                                                                ~Carl Gustav Jung

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 1:41:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

I sent you a previous email on this.  The (new)
dosages you are doing are fine as is the test dose
amount. Ethnogarden had originally reported to me a
1:1 strength of their extract (not Indra extract) and
some confusion as well as the dose you gave me (3.95gm
– which is a range for Indra extract – so it looked
like you were talking Indra to me) – so much for
“contrast” – which if there is, something is not right
and GOOD, we found out something was not right and
fixed it and good that you followed up and asked, many
people don’t… Their product is new, not just to me,
it is new. With ibogaine – even known products it is
often difficult to judge potency as each and every
time it is somewhat different – even less can feel
like more, more can seem like less. Maybe it is the
phases of the moon or something… It is good to check
and double check which you are doing –  good not to
have given that 58mg/kg, we want to cure him, not cook
him… If the test dose hits him very hard (you will
know) I would suggest cutting the full dose back, if
it were HCL I would drop it to 10-12mg, so figure
about double that. If on the other hand 2 hours after
the 35mg/kg (total) he is up and about, give him some
more ibo (not over 45mg/kg at one sitting), you want
him  to be wobbled. If he barfs up the ibogaine –
there you have to guestimate how much he lost and
replace it. If he threw it all up 1 hour later he
would have absorbed about 1/2 of the ibo, a bit more
if it were HCL, less if it were Indra (just to confuse
things) – for ballpark idea.

Good luck, all will be well very soon. I will be home
tomorrow if you need to contact me. Normally things go
just fine. FYI, if you like a tiny amount of ibo for
you (say 25mg) will help you get in sync with him.

Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
The iboga extract came from Ethnogarden Botanicals,
who is on this list. His
suggestion was to stick to 150 mg test dose, and
then when convinced all is
well, administer 35 – 45 mg per kg., since my friend
is at a low dose point,
leaning toward 35 mg. per kg.

So if I understand J. Callan from Ethnograden, the
recommended amount to
test is 150 – 200 mg., and the range at 68 kg. (
2380 mg. to 3,060 mg.) for
complete dosage? This contrasts with some of the
comments.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent
comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily
(down
from $600 daily three

It is always better to cut down (whatever kind of
dope) as much as you can before treatment, some
treaters say it doesn’t matter – I disagree.

months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68

He needs about 12 hours (from last fix) or just
before
he starts to kick before doing ibo, I didn’t catch
the
timing. Methadone you wait about 24 hours.

kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as
planned.

The liver can usually be worked around (short
version
is the dosing is worked up slower and watched
closer),
any heart problems cannot.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from
150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Unless it is a different extract Indra (indra.dk)
suggests .5-1 gm test dose for their product, see
their website. Anyone I know who contacted them
directly was told to use 1gm for the tester.

From their site

“0,5 – 1 gram: Mainly stimulant and aphrodisiac
properties. Little or no visual imagery. This is a
valuable experience in itself. For those who wish
to
use the extract for treating drug dependency this
small dosage is also appropriate for testing for
possible allergic reactions and other undesirable
effects. ”

If it is another extract such as a 16:1 from
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm the
dosage
is different. In Ethnogardens’ product it would be
used 1:1, just like ibogaine HCL and 100mg test
dose
would be standard. But then if it is ethnogardens
extract (which I highly doubt) the main dose is
WAY
TOO HIGH as is the test dose. I have no experience
with Enthnogarden’s 16:1 extract and have not
heard
any reports either.

My personal feeling is 1/2 gm (Indra) is enough
which
would be about equal to 100mg HCL, a typical test
dose
of HCL (it is roughly 5:1 indra:ibogaine HCL) and
1gm
on the high side IMO. 150mg-250mg of Indra IMO
might
not be enough to find out if there is a problem
(eg,
slow metabolizer/highly sensitive to ibo). There
was
one person (who did NOT follow protocol and get
the
required medical screening, he was not a
youngster)
who reported to the ibogaine list chest pains
associated with taking 1gm of Indra as a test
dose. I
also know of one methadone who REFUSED to take the
full dose of ibogaine (Indra) after taking the 1gm
tester, it can be particularly disgusting for
opiate
addicts – hence my tending to (suggest) go a bit
lower
at .5gm but not 150mg-250mg. The test dose also
seems
to ease one into it rather than all at once, it
wouldn’t matter much if at all with Indra cause it
is
so slow and does not produce as much (if any)
anxiety
as HCL but with HCL it is, relaxing even.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 11:32:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The iboga extract came from Ethnogarden Botanicals, who is on this list. His
suggestion was to stick to 150 mg test dose, and then when convinced all is
well, administer 35 – 45 mg per kg., since my friend is at a low dose point,
leaning toward 35 mg. per kg.

So if I understand J. Callan from Ethnograden, the recommended amount to
test is 150 – 200 mg., and the range at 68 kg. ( 2380 mg. to 3,060 mg.) for
complete dosage? This contrasts with some of the comments.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three

It is always better to cut down (whatever kind of
dope) as much as you can before treatment, some
treaters say it doesn’t matter – I disagree.

months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68

He needs about 12 hours (from last fix) or just before
he starts to kick before doing ibo, I didn’t catch the
timing. Methadone you wait about 24 hours.

kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

The liver can usually be worked around (short version
is the dosing is worked up slower and watched closer),
any heart problems cannot.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Unless it is a different extract Indra (indra.dk)
suggests .5-1 gm test dose for their product, see
their website. Anyone I know who contacted them
directly was told to use 1gm for the tester.

From their site

“0,5 – 1 gram: Mainly stimulant and aphrodisiac
properties. Little or no visual imagery. This is a
valuable experience in itself. For those who wish to
use the extract for treating drug dependency this
small dosage is also appropriate for testing for
possible allergic reactions and other undesirable
effects. ”

If it is another extract such as a 16:1 from
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm the dosage
is different. In Ethnogardens’ product it would be
used 1:1, just like ibogaine HCL and 100mg test dose
would be standard. But then if it is ethnogardens
extract (which I highly doubt) the main dose is WAY
TOO HIGH as is the test dose. I have no experience
with Enthnogarden’s 16:1 extract and have not heard
any reports either.

My personal feeling is 1/2 gm (Indra) is enough which
would be about equal to 100mg HCL, a typical test dose
of HCL (it is roughly 5:1 indra:ibogaine HCL) and 1gm
on the high side IMO. 150mg-250mg of Indra IMO might
not be enough to find out if there is a problem (eg,
slow metabolizer/highly sensitive to ibo). There was
one person (who did NOT follow protocol and get the
required medical screening, he was not a youngster)
who reported to the ibogaine list chest pains
associated with taking 1gm of Indra as a test dose. I
also know of one methadone who REFUSED to take the
full dose of ibogaine (Indra) after taking the 1gm
tester, it can be particularly disgusting for opiate
addicts – hence my tending to (suggest) go a bit lower
at .5gm but not 150mg-250mg. The test dose also seems
to ease one into it rather than all at once, it
wouldn’t matter much if at all with Indra cause it is
so slow and does not produce as much (if any) anxiety
as HCL but with HCL it is, relaxing even.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 12:06:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, ethnogarden got back to me.

The test dose of 150mg is fine but that 3.95gm of
their extract is TOO HIGH (seriously). It comes to
58mg/kg for a 68kg person and should be reduced to
35mg-45mg/kg per Ethnogarden. In other types of
ibogaine the habit you describe of $20 a day would put
it at a lower dose rather than the max dose, usually
for methadone addicts. Again, I am unfamiliar with
their particular flavor of extract – crunch some
number time… 2.5gm total puts it at almost 37mg/kg,
you can always take a little more later if you need
it, the last thing you want to do is “oops, took too
much ibogaine”… You should know how far UP THERE you
go by 1.5 hours after the dose, or less and would be
best if you took the main dose all within about 3
hours. I suggest not to keep taking the stuff over
ethnogarden’s recomendation of 45mg/kg in one sitting
if you are having some withdrawal symptoms, too much
ibogaine can be a bad thing. Again I am unfamiliar
with their product but ya can’t keep hitting the ibo
safely if you are somewhat sick, expect some
discomfort and don’t try to get rid of all of it (in
the usual addict fashion…).

Hope that helps.

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Yes, Dana, those are intended doses using the whole
extract.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is
68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from
150 mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 11:20:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ethnogarden contacted me about the extract being used.
There seems to be some confusion (on my part?) about
the dosage/potency of their 16:1 extract, I have asked
them to contact me/the list about dosages/potency
(etc). It appears to me that at 16:1 almost 3.95 grams
of their extract is high, appearances can be
deceiving… (eg at 16:1 it comes to over 63 gm of
root bark or that is what it looks like) or in the
case of a 68kg person 3.95gm (total suggested) comes
to 58mg/kg which is still over the dosage range they
just gave me of 35-45mg/kg for their extract –
initially I was told it was 1:1 to ibogaine HCL – so
there is some confusion that needs to be cleared up.
All I can say not knowing their product and till I
hear from them is go with whatever they say on
dosages/test dosages but I don’t want someone getting
hurt either so double check the dosages they gave you,
something seems off.

As always, be careful with ibogaine.

Brett

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 11:19:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, Dana, those are intended doses using the whole extract.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments. Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m. Monday. His body weight is
68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150 mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

From: “Ron Sala” <ronsala@uuma.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 20, 2002 at 8:12:27 PM EDT
To: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <aiviarose@netscape.net>, <barlow@eff.org>, <cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu>, <clayhoney@hotmail.com>, <cnw@cures-not-wars.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, <ekwaus@yahoo.com>, <HSL123@aol.com>, <J_Dillard@hotmail.com>, <kid_lucky@hotmail.com>, <narda@lifefood.com>, <Nmitsogo@aol.com>, <NPNReality@aol.com>, <PGBenjamin@aol.com>, <phuture2010@hotmail.com>, <Suziknkbell@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

Thanks for the invitation. Unfortunately, all three of us are booked up for tomorrow. But please let me know ASAP when the next meeting is. We’d all like to come.

Yours,

Ron
__________________________________________________________________
The Rev. Ron Sala
Unitarian Universalist Society in Stamford
20 Forest St, Stamford, CT 06901-1819
Office: 203-348-0708  Fax: 203-358-0029
ronsala@uuma.org  www.uusis.org

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: Ron Sala
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; aiviarose@netscape.net ; barlow@eff.org ; cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu ; clayhoney@hotmail.com ; cnw@cures-not-wars.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; ekwaus@yahoo.com ; HSL123@aol.com ; J_Dillard@hotmail.com ; kid_lucky@hotmail.com ; narda@lifefood.com ; Nmitsogo@aol.com ; NPNReality@aol.com ; PGBenjamin@aol.com ; phuture2010@hotmail.com ; Suziknkbell@aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: UU front

Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil Dick fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at Community Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and would like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is looking into what needs to be done to get space at the church for that February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the White Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album by The Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron
__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group at 22 w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction Center? We will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until after 6.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 8:15:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, marc420emery@shaw.ca
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three

It is always better to cut down (whatever kind of
dope) as much as you can before treatment, some
treaters say it doesn’t matter – I disagree.

months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68

He needs about 12 hours (from last fix) or just before
he starts to kick before doing ibo, I didn’t catch the
timing. Methadone you wait about 24 hours.

kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

The liver can usually be worked around (short version
is the dosing is worked up slower and watched closer),
any heart problems cannot.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Unless it is a different extract Indra (indra.dk)
suggests .5-1 gm test dose for their product, see
their website. Anyone I know who contacted them
directly was told to use 1gm for the tester.

From their site

“0,5 – 1 gram: Mainly stimulant and aphrodisiac
properties. Little or no visual imagery. This is a
valuable experience in itself. For those who wish to
use the extract for treating drug dependency this
small dosage is also appropriate for testing for
possible allergic reactions and other undesirable
effects. ”

If it is another extract such as a 16:1 from
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm the dosage
is different. In Ethnogardens’ product it would be
used 1:1, just like ibogaine HCL and 100mg test dose
would be standard. But then if it is ethnogardens
extract (which I highly doubt) the main dose is WAY
TOO HIGH as is the test dose. I have no experience
with Enthnogarden’s 16:1 extract and have not heard
any reports either.

My personal feeling is 1/2 gm (Indra) is enough which
would be about equal to 100mg HCL, a typical test dose
of HCL (it is roughly 5:1 indra:ibogaine HCL) and 1gm
on the high side IMO. 150mg-250mg of Indra IMO might
not be enough to find out if there is a problem (eg,
slow metabolizer/highly sensitive to ibo). There was
one person (who did NOT follow protocol and get the
required medical screening, he was not a youngster)
who reported to the ibogaine list chest pains
associated with taking 1gm of Indra as a test dose. I
also know of one methadone who REFUSED to take the
full dose of ibogaine (Indra) after taking the 1gm
tester, it can be particularly disgusting for opiate
addicts – hence my tending to (suggest) go a bit lower
at .5gm but not 150mg-250mg. The test dose also seems
to ease one into it rather than all at once, it
wouldn’t matter much if at all with Indra cause it is
so slow and does not produce as much (if any) anxiety
as HCL but with HCL it is, relaxing even.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 7:58:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, ccadden wrote:

Ibogaine strikes me as one where you most definitely need to be prepared
for vomit. It’s an integral part of it. One good way to get it over with
fast is to twist your shoulders quickly to the left or right, while keeping
your stomach straight ahead. This will project it all out, very quickly.
The whole point is to detox. I know that with DMT, people will fast
beforehand if they want to avoid the demon Vomitus. There’s also the risk
with DMT of crapping all over yourself. Since the point of ibogaine is to
detox, I would welcome the Vomitus. I don’t want this nasty crap inside of
me anyway, so come on Vomitus; do your black magic.

Vomiting is a good thing.

Well, from a medical point of view, the vomiting probably isn’t very
efficacious; if you’ve been using drugs for an extended period of time,
the toxins are in your liver, kidneys, bloodstream, lungs, etc. Vomitting
wont help this. But the SYMBOLISM of vomitting i would imagine to be very
important on a psychological (and spiritual, if thats your thing) level.

I could be completely making this up, but I also seem to remember the
vomitting phase of iboga intoxication being integral to the traditional
initiation cememonies in West Africa. This spiritual cleansing through
vomitting theme can be seen in a number of other initiatory rituals; the
one that comes to mind most quickly is the Peyote rituals of Native
Americans.

So i think whether or not the ibogaine induced vomitting actually has a
physical cleaning effect is irrelavent to the point of the experience,
this is more than removing toxins, this is holistic cleansing.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????NAL FROM ANN ARBOR
Date: October 20, 2002 at 7:46:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, ccadden wrote:

OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well

To that worm inside the peyote button, our world would probably be the one
that’s trippy. Isn’t that an odd thought?

Well, even taking mind altering drugs completely out of the picture for a
minute; the world is a bloody fucking weird place…

=)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 20, 2002 at 7:19:49 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joshua Tinnin wrote:

Yeah, that’s cute. Base64-encoded html attachment to launch something in an
iFrame, I would assume, but am not bothering to decode it.

Sygate and ZoneAlarm make decent, free firewalls, and both are better than
BlackIce (which is not free), and AVG makes great, free anti-virus software
… or, as Patrick mentioned, don’t use Billy Gate’s bastard child of an OS,
or use something other than Outlook or Outlook Express for email. Unless you
really have to, as I do, unfortunately. Newbies with Linux can have massive
security holes in their schtuff as well, but won’t get into that too much.
Just learn how to use it if you have it.

Free Stuff that helps the situation with Windoze:

Sygate Personal Firewall – http://soho.sygate.com/products/shield_ov.htm

ZoneAlarm fireall – http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/home.jsp

(btw, you only need one firewall, and using two at once can cause problems)

AVG Anti-Virus – http://www.grisoft.com/

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

We haven’t opened the additional lists yet, since the beta is finally
stable and not FLYING out of anything.  Basically this means the Vox list
will be absorbed therein; and ibogaine and drugwar will continue as they
are now, and get gently blended into the mix once it is HIGHLY stable, and
we’re sure nothing will be disrupted.

I will toss an endline onto the messages, and make it simpler for the
terminally brain dead to unsubscribe, in the near future — meaning;
coming no later than 2004.

– – – – – – – – –

On another topic.  The lists are closed, this means that most spam,
viruses, shit like that, gets stripped out and does not land here.

However, there are various script kiddies sending out crap and
cross-posting it — or attempting to anyway.

Fer instance, this:

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100
From: HSL123 <HSL123@aol.com>
Subject: Sep 12 2002 19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(Which was filtered out).  Is Howard’s email address that he uses to post
to calyx, with someone attempting to spoof it to [Here].  And where it
actually comes from is:

<skript kiddie crap snipped>

^^^ Alla that will do absolutely nothing to a Unix box, Mac, or any
machine which isn’t running Windoze and/or Outlook.

If you are using Windoze and POP to Outlook, or read shit in IE5/6, then
it’s a REALLY EXCELLENT idea to have Norton anti-virus, or sumthin’ of
that nature, or you will eventually be sorry.

Basically, to put it into laymen’s terms: Windoze is a pile of shit virus
magnet, and Outlook is swiss cheese.

Just mentioning,

Patrick

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 5:46:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments. Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m. Monday. His body weight is 68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150 mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Any response re monday’s meeting
Date: October 20, 2002 at 4:41:03 PM EDT
To: “Ron Sala” <ronsala@uuma.org>
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com, aiviarose@netscape.net, barlow@eff.org, cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu, clayhoney@hotmail.com, cnw@cures-not-wars.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, ekwaus@yahoo.com, HSL123@aol.com, J_Dillard@hotmail.com, kid_lucky@hotmail.com, narda@lifefood.com, Nmitsogo@aol.com, NPNReality@aol.com, PGBenjamin@aol.com, phuture2010@hotmail.com, Suziknkbell@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil Dick fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at Community Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and would like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is looking into what needs to be done to get space at the church for that February forum.

So– can you or either of these folks make it for Monday’s meeting at the HRC?

Dana/cnw

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un kina IA
Date: October 20, 2002 at 1:17:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: ccadden <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un
kina IA

I usually contact my dead relatives on that time, but if I get a reminder,
I’m definitely into it. That’s great you have a bunch of people doing it.
The more you have, the better it can work. The goal could be to use all
the
energy to free everyone of all that’s negative within them. The myth about
Halloween, called Samhain in the tradition it comes from, is  that it is
the time when the veil btwn the living and the dead is at its thinnest.

Yes, around now will be a very potent time for all things iboga-esque. After
tomorrow’s full moon, with the moon moving into Taurus and the sun into its
cojoint Scorpio, and for about a month afterward, the veil between the
physical and the Bwiti’s Land of the Ancestors will indeed be very light.
Might be worth burning some iboga rootbark on Samhain [s’wain], Oct 31st,
the Celtic New Year, if you’re treating people with ibogaine, with the
request that the great spirit doesn’t cause any of your punters to move from
one side of the veil to the other in the coming year.

Just a thought

Nick

From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] zero point gravity modifications
Date: October 20, 2002 at 12:01:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2072733

brave new world
Feeling Antigravity’s Pull
Can NASA stop the apple from falling on Newton’s head?
By Adam Rogers
Posted Friday, October 18, 2002, at 8:30 AM PT

“Don’t call it antigravity research,” Ron Koczor pleads. He’s a physicist at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., and he’s talking about a project he’s been working on for almost a decade. “Call it ‘gravity modification.’ ‘Gravity anomalies.’ Anything but antigravity. That’s a red flag.”

When people find out that the National Aeronautics and Space Administration has researchers working on sci-fi stuff like antigravity—or rather, “gravity modification”—the red flags do indeed start waving. Reputable scientists like Koczor earn polite disdain from colleagues (or worse, from funders of research). But truth’s truth: NASA has been studying the manipulation of gravity for at least 10 years, as have nongovernment researchers.

NASA began its work after a Russian physicist named Evgeny Podkletnov published an article in the peer-reviewed journal Physica C in 1992. Podkletnov claimed that a device built around a superconductor and a magnet could shield an object from gravity. The trick, he said, was to make a superconducting disc about a foot in diameter, chill it, levitate it over magnets—a nifty property of superconductors is that they repel magnetic fields—and set it revolving like a compact disc. Podkletnov said an object placed above that contraption lost 0.3 percent of its weight. The object itself didn’t change. Rather, gravity’s effect on it lessened.

If that effect could be harnessed and strengthened, the aerospace industry would be upended. Vessels bound for space wouldn’t have to ride atop massive, barely controlled explosions. All the energy human beings expend moving things around, from cargo to cars, could be reduced or eliminated. And post-Einsteinian physics would have to be rewritten to explain what the hell was going on. Podkletnov called the effect “gravitational force shielding,” and even in the absence of a good theory to explain the phenomenon, other researchers took notice. “Because his experiment and results were published in a peer-reviewed, scientific journal, that gave it a level of credibility,” Koczor says.

After Podkletnov published his article, it took NASA until 1999 to figure out how to make a large, thin superconducting disc. Ceramic high-temperature superconductors are brittle as cheap china, and the discs kept shattering. Once they solved that problem, NASA paid Columbus, Ohio-based SCI Engineered Materials $650,000 to build the entire apparatus. But Podkletnov had called for a disc with two layers, one superconducting and one not, and SCI didn’t solve that engineering challenge until last year. Then they hit another roadblock. The disc wouldn’t spin. SCI engineers stuck a rotor through the disc’s center to turn it mechanically, but Podkletnov specified 5,000 revolutions per minute. SCI’s device barely pulls 30 rpm.

Why not just ask Podkletnov how to build the thing? SCI brought him over to consult a couple of years ago, to little avail. “His excuse basically was that he was a ceramics physicist, not an electrical or mechanical engineer, and other people built the device for him,” Koczor says. “Draw your own conclusions. All I know is, if I were a principal investigator on something like this, I would know the size and thread-depth of every screw in the damn thing. But you know, the Europeans and the Russians, they’re different. They’re much more, ‘this is your job and this is my job.’ So it’s plausible that he didn’t know the details.” It might not matter. SCI’s contract is ending, and Koczor’s budget to explore “way-out physics” is spent. He hasn’t got the money to actually test the device even if it did meet Podkletnov’s specs.

But researchers outside NASA are working on the problem, too. This summer Nick Cook, a writer for Jane’s Defence Weekly, reported that aerospace giant Boeing was pursuing antigravity research. Boeing denied it. “We are aware of Podkletnov’s work on ‘anti-gravity’ devices and would be interested in seeing further development work being done,” said a company statement. “However, Boeing is not funding any activities in this area at this time.” Note Boeing’s use of the Clintonian present tense. They never contacted Jane’s to ask for a correction, Cook says. Meanwhile, British aerospace company BAE Systems says it’s keeping an eye on the research, and that it had once funded its own antigravity project, Greenglow.

Unfortunately, Cook strains his own credibility somewhat. A couple of weeks after his Jane’s piece appeared, Cook’s book on antigravity research, The Hunt for Zero Point, came out. In it, he claims that the Nazis built an antigravity device during World War II. Its absence from present-day science, Cook says, implies a vast “black” world of secret antigravity aircraft that might explain the UFOs people see over Area 51. He’s a careful investigative reporter, but once you start talking about UFOs and Nazi antigravity you’re not far from hidden tunnels under the White House full of lizard-men disguised as Freemasons.

Even without Nazis, there are plenty of reasons to doubt Podkletnov. My e-mails to the account listed on his recent articles (not peer-reviewed) went unanswered. Even more problematic, I can’t find the institution he lists as his affiliation in Moscow. “Eugene always expressed his worries that others could copy his work, although as far as I know he never applied for a patent,” Giovanni Modanese, a collaborator of Podkletnov’s at the University of Bolzano in Italy, wrote in an e-mail (using a Western version of Podkletnov’s first name). “Nonetheless, at the scientific level if one wants a confirmation by others and a successful replication, one must give all the necessary elements.” Well, yeah. Modanese says that the current version of the device, now called an “impulse gravity generator,” is simpler and could be built “by a big-science team of people expert in superconductivity.” A Boeing spokesperson didn’t respond to follow-up questions. So, either there’s nothing going on here, or it’s an X-File.

And the science? Ten years is a long time to go without replication. Combine that with Podkletnov’s cagey behavior and it’s enough to make even sci-fi geeks like me lose hope. But like the core of any good conspiracy, antigravity research has the ring of plausibility. One of the outstanding problems in physics and cosmology today involves the existence of so-called dark matter and dark energy. They’re by far the main constituents of matter in the universe, and nobody knows what they’re made of—researchers have only inferred their existence from gravitational effects. Coming up with a new theory of how gravity works might explain that, though it’d be a scientific revolution on a par with relativity. “Changing gravity is in the cards,” says Paul Schechter, an astronomer at MIT. “But so far no one’s been able to do better than Einstein.” Still, Einstein worked in a lowly patent office. Ron Koczor works for NASA.

_____________________________________________________________
Find out what’s HIP!
Visit Hip Planet for news, shopping, forums, chatrooms, free personal and classified ads and much more!
Get your FREE 20 MB Website or FREE E-MAIL! at HipPlanet now!

It’s all waiting for you, at http://www.hipplanet.com

_____________________________________________________________
Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 5:47:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What if someone vomit the Iboga and going into withdrawal and his/her
stomach wouldn’t take more ?

You wouldn’t like to see a person in drug withdrawals because of their vomit
fear ,

administer the Iboga rectal which will take the withdrawals a way but will
not upset the stomach .

the person should lay down on his left side ,the leg on top should be bended
and rested on the knee ,

take care that you don’t have long nails and that you have a clean rubber
glove you can administer the Iboga ,

while you do that you have to make the person know that it takes only a
second and it might will give them a

shock but it is better then anything els you can do at the moment even if it
no fun ,

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

Ibogaine strikes me as one where you most definitely need to be prepared
for vomit. It’s an integral part of it. One good way to get it over with
fast is to twist your shoulders quickly to the left or right, while
keeping
your stomach straight ahead. This will project it all out, very quickly.
The whole point is to detox. I know that with DMT, people will fast
beforehand if they want to avoid the demon Vomitus. There’s also the risk
with DMT of crapping all over yourself. Since the point of ibogaine is to
detox, I would welcome the Vomitus. I don’t want this nasty crap inside of
me anyway, so come on Vomitus; do your black magic.

Vomiting is a good thing.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

in some drug instances, vomiting may be part of the
experience, an integral
thing. In those cases I upchuck with religious
passion, and try to make the
most of it.

Absolutely. Most of the time if you are gonna puke,
you are gonna puke eventually anyway, just less of
it/less often. It is not so much to stop it all, just
to be more comfortable and not over-due it with the
vomiting – which can happen. Ibogaine seems to detox,
make fluid and phlegm come out, sometimes black vomit
or piss. It depends on how TOXIC someone is. Me, I am
clean and not toxic at all, don’t NEED to puke and
don’t but other people who are highly toxic can do
with some good cleansing. The one time I did vomit (I
was toxic) was hours and hours after the ibo, I was
not sick, just one masterful HUGE voiding all at once
-and I needed it at the time.

Vomiting is not a bad thing.

Brett

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die
several times while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

For future reference, does mj work as an
anti-emetic
in this instance, or

Sure it will help. The BIG thing is not to move,
once
you start moving you will likely get sick, once
you
are sick you are SICK (pretty much). Keep still,
move
slowly. NO anti-emetic is going to help very much
if a
patient is moving around, they will still likely
get
sick – just a bit less. Stay still, if the patient
moves, move VERY VERY slowly and let the body
adjust
to the moving – eg, sit-up in bed slowly, let the
sloshing (so to speak) ease up, turn to the side
of
the bed, let yourself adjust, stand-up slowly, let
the
oozyness subside, then start to walk… Keep the
head
in line with the body the whole time. You may have
to
put your hand on them to regulate how fast they
move,
they may not be able to judge how fast they move
so
guide them if necessary – in other words you can
say
move slowly and they may POP-UP in bed… in which
case they turn several shades of green and land
flat
back in bed…

Did I say to KEEP STILL??? That is the #1, #2 and
#3
best thing you can do to keep from getting sick.
So I
will say it again “KEEP STILL”, do not move. Lie
flat
on your back is usually the best position.

does it potentiate the ibo (which may not be a
bad
thing)? Of course this
could mean either smoked or eaten.

I wouldn’t eat it with ibo and wouldn’t use very
much
either. Smoking will not potentiate ibo, just
relaxes,
they do not conflict and seem to go well together

from what I have heard of course…

ONCE AGAIN, STAY STILL (repeat that 1000 times).

One other thing, don’t move too fast in front of
the
patient, don’t ZOOM IN their face, don’t wave
hands
around – that can make the oozy. YOu as the guide
need
to move slowly too.

Brett

– jt

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 5:26:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments. Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m. Monday. His body weight is 68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 –  1 gram test dose is much higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150 mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <debra56@execulink.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

Marc

into healthy, robust individuals. I was
staggered.

You should see how it feels from “this” side…

Comes to my place. Hangs out. No food or eating
except a litle fruit or small amount only. Interact

He needs a good 12 hours (+) , can (IMO) eat (real)
fruit or juice till about 4 hours before treatment –
so he could eat the evening before.

with Martin, talk about the next day, talk about
music. Watch Poyaqquatsi. Go to bed at midnight.

Martin wakes at 8.00, showers, gets comfortable.

Shower, pee, yes, “get comfortable”.

At  2.00 p.m. , 150 mg Extract in gel cap
administered to see adverse reaction.

150 mg isn’t enough, try 1/2-1gm a couple hours before
the main dose.

An hour later,  administer  1,200 mg. in gel caps
with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps
with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps
with milk (5.00 p.m.)

Some do it that way, you cold give it all at once
(except the tester dose). To me it is LONG ENOUGH
without making it longer, I want it overwith so I
would do it all at once – but broken up as above is
fine.  You didn’t say how big and how bad a habit the
patient has, 4gm should/could do it, he can take more
(eg 5gm total, 1gm test followed by 4). YOu can also
give him/her a little more once you get started if
withdrawals start (they should be mild) or the next
day. DO NOT go over 6gm of ibo for the treatment the
first day. It also may be helpful to just give him
another 1gm in a day or so even if he doesn’t seem to
meed it much. Keep in mind that ibogaine has some
withdrawl-like symptoms and addicts may also have some
minor withdrawals – usually it seems (to them) much
worse than it is.

You can use an anti-emetic to make the patient more
comfortable (eg dramamine), some people do it, some
don’t use anti-emetics. Ginger tea also helps, DO NOT
MOVE helps the most, if he has to, keep the head fixed
with the body and turn the whole body very slowly.
Long slow deep breaths (4 seconds in, hold for 4, out
in 4 and wait for 4 secones) for any anxiety – usually
happens the first few hours.

Room kept fairly dark after onset. Pail for
urination at the bedside, washroom nearby.

For PUKE too, again, pee first. Ibogaine seems to
cause a very slight amount of urgency to urinate once
you start peeing, so he doesn’t have to get-up right
away.

3 attendents total ,organized in 8 hour shifts.
Hydration necessary, Over the next period of

Wait several hours before administering any fluids so
the ibo gets absorbed.

visualizations and experience, observe any unusual
reactions.

There are many unusual reactions that are quite normal
and nothing to worry about. If there is a vision he
doesn’t like, simply blink.

I would also suggest being ready for a re-treat, some
need it, others don’t – extending the treatment by
giving a bit more ibo (depends on how he is doing as
to what/how much) after the main dose (extended
treatment) will lessen the need/will be more
effective. See how he is doing and ask the
list/contact a guide if you have any questions. I
would also get the # of a guide and keep it handy,
right next to emergency numbers (ambulance???)

Also, follow protocol. He needs EKG, physical, liver
checked… DO NOT MIX WITH MEDICATIONS unless you are
sure they mix with ibo, NO DOPE or if he is going to
after the ibo, cut it way back – like to 1/3rd a dose.

All IMO of course

Good luck

Brett

———

Any comments please?

Thanks,

Marc Emery

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 4:15:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibogaine strikes me as one where you most definitely need to be prepared
for vomit. It’s an integral part of it. One good way to get it over with
fast is to twist your shoulders quickly to the left or right, while keeping
your stomach straight ahead. This will project it all out, very quickly.
The whole point is to detox. I know that with DMT, people will fast
beforehand if they want to avoid the demon Vomitus. There’s also the risk
with DMT of crapping all over yourself. Since the point of ibogaine is to
detox, I would welcome the Vomitus. I don’t want this nasty crap inside of
me anyway, so come on Vomitus; do your black magic.

Vomiting is a good thing.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

in some drug instances, vomiting may be part of the
experience, an integral
thing. In those cases I upchuck with religious
passion, and try to make the
most of it.

Absolutely. Most of the time if you are gonna puke,
you are gonna puke eventually anyway, just less of
it/less often. It is not so much to stop it all, just
to be more comfortable and not over-due it with the
vomiting – which can happen. Ibogaine seems to detox,
make fluid and phlegm come out, sometimes black vomit
or piss. It depends on how TOXIC someone is. Me, I am
clean and not toxic at all, don’t NEED to puke and
don’t but other people who are highly toxic can do
with some good cleansing. The one time I did vomit (I
was toxic) was hours and hours after the ibo, I was
not sick, just one masterful HUGE voiding all at once
-and I needed it at the time.

Vomiting is not a bad thing.

Brett

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die
several times while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

For future reference, does mj work as an
anti-emetic
in this instance, or

Sure it will help. The BIG thing is not to move,
once
you start moving you will likely get sick, once
you
are sick you are SICK (pretty much). Keep still,
move
slowly. NO anti-emetic is going to help very much
if a
patient is moving around, they will still likely
get
sick – just a bit less. Stay still, if the patient
moves, move VERY VERY slowly and let the body
adjust
to the moving – eg, sit-up in bed slowly, let the
sloshing (so to speak) ease up, turn to the side
of
the bed, let yourself adjust, stand-up slowly, let
the
oozyness subside, then start to walk… Keep the
head
in line with the body the whole time. You may have
to
put your hand on them to regulate how fast they
move,
they may not be able to judge how fast they move
so
guide them if necessary – in other words you can
say
move slowly and they may POP-UP in bed… in which
case they turn several shades of green and land
flat
back in bed…

Did I say to KEEP STILL??? That is the #1, #2 and
#3
best thing you can do to keep from getting sick.
So I
will say it again “KEEP STILL”, do not move. Lie
flat
on your back is usually the best position.

does it potentiate the ibo (which may not be a
bad
thing)? Of course this
could mean either smoked or eaten.

I wouldn’t eat it with ibo and wouldn’t use very
much
either. Smoking will not potentiate ibo, just
relaxes,
they do not conflict and seem to go well together

from what I have heard of course…

ONCE AGAIN, STAY STILL (repeat that 1000 times).

One other thing, don’t move too fast in front of
the
patient, don’t ZOOM IN their face, don’t wave
hands
around – that can make the oozy. YOu as the guide
need
to move slowly too.

Brett

– jt

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un kina IA
Date: October 19, 2002 at 4:09:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I usually contact my dead relatives on that time, but if I get a reminder,
I’m definitely into it. That’s great you have a bunch of people doing it.
The more you have, the better it can work. The goal could be to use all the
energy to free everyone of all that’s negative within them. The myth about
Halloween, called Samhain in the tradition it comes from, is  that it is
the time when the veil btwn the living and the dead is at its thinnest.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nicholas Labus” <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un
kina IA

Yes that is a good thought thank you hey anyone who would like to
try and contact me via the Universal MIND route about 25 of my
friends are having a mass mind exploration party on all hallows eveb
starting at 7:00pm so meditate or indulge in a so called
hallucinogen or two and we will try to feel you over here in
michigan there is people in eastern and western NY,UTAH,AZ And cali
participating so please cum one cum alll enjoy with true sincere
love to all take care i treuly care about everyone. ,everyone is
good at bheart even Cute little fried worms
— ccadden <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly
laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them
is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well

To that worm inside the peyote button, our world would probably be
the one
that’s trippy. Isn’t that an odd thought?

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die several times
while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nicholas Labus” <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????NAL FROM ANN ARBOR

Hi This is Nick here are speaking about Universal   Unitarians.
or
if not what church i sometimes go to   UU church here in Ann
Arbor
and the 2 in Detroit. I have not had the privaledge of  using
Ibo to
help me with my opiate addiction I am still on Methadone but it
is
the only opiate i have used in over5 months but unfortunatly i
did
take some MDMA,MDA,5-meo-dipt,And some gel tabs wich were
supposed
to be Lysergic acid Die the ethema ide, and then brought in some
lines of K mixed with DMT and 5-MEO-dmt, and some joints of
Salvia D
with the 2 DMT’s in it. We were trying to trip really hard only
cuz
i got a free ticket to the TOOL concert Last Night. wich you
know
what i really made me hate Heroin and opiates and god damn the
visuals there were SICK!! Everyone there was Sinply FRIED! god
there
stage show is magnificent.Jesus! Tool was cool as a dino terd
mmixed
with frog poison that took some flys dipped in mescaline with a
worm
that smoked a bowl…OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly
laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them
is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well. My point is that I might overdue
the
<hallucinogens> >BUT< that has kept me from smokin Rocks of Coke
or
shootin Rocks of HERO-IN.and i very rarely trip but i think that
trippin helps clean the soul if you treat the experience with
the
respect it deserves and go
<+Finger=Deep=Within=-=The=Borderline+>
Well i think its amazing also what Ibogaine does to the opiate
receptors and all the other things it fullfils.  I hear from
quite a
few people though that it is a very very rough ride and there
isnt
much smiling that goes on its quite intense at the full full
dose;-\
but intense can be good. please also check out inuendo
cornucopia.com i think it explains it all i love it.LOVE in a
very
omni-sexual way or plutonic whatevers clever trever never say
never
cuz then you may sever the timeline and then wine about your
realitys mine oh mine so fine do what you will to get your fill
and
satisfy the thrill but don’t spill the swill or he might just
kill
with the wrong pill Ok jill till next time make sure your fine I
still will   =-=-=-=-=AND I”M OUT=-=-=-

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil
Dick

fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at
Community
Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and
would
like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is
looking
into what needs to be done to get space at the church for
that
February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the
White
Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album
by
The
Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron

__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to
bringing
Ibo
to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group
at
22
w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction
Center? We

will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until
after 6.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un kina IA
Date: October 19, 2002 at 4:04:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes that is a good thought thank you hey anyone who would like to
try and contact me via the Universal MIND route about 25 of my
friends are having a mass mind exploration party on all hallows eveb
starting at 7:00pm so meditate or indulge in a so called
hallucinogen or two and we will try to feel you over here in
michigan there is people in eastern and western NY,UTAH,AZ And cali
participating so please cum one cum alll enjoy with true sincere
love to all take care i treuly care about everyone. ,everyone is
good at bheart even Cute little fried worms
— ccadden <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly
laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them
is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well

To that worm inside the peyote button, our world would probably be
the one
that’s trippy. Isn’t that an odd thought?

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die several times
while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nicholas Labus” <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????NAL FROM ANN ARBOR

Hi This is Nick here are speaking about Universal   Unitarians.
or
if not what church i sometimes go to   UU church here in Ann
Arbor
and the 2 in Detroit. I have not had the privaledge of  using
Ibo to
help me with my opiate addiction I am still on Methadone but it
is
the only opiate i have used in over5 months but unfortunatly i
did
take some MDMA,MDA,5-meo-dipt,And some gel tabs wich were
supposed
to be Lysergic acid Die the ethema ide, and then brought in some
lines of K mixed with DMT and 5-MEO-dmt, and some joints of
Salvia D
with the 2 DMT’s in it. We were trying to trip really hard only
cuz
i got a free ticket to the TOOL concert Last Night. wich you
know
what i really made me hate Heroin and opiates and god damn the
visuals there were SICK!! Everyone there was Sinply FRIED! god
there
stage show is magnificent.Jesus! Tool was cool as a dino terd
mmixed
with frog poison that took some flys dipped in mescaline with a
worm
that smoked a bowl…OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly
laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them
is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well. My point is that I might overdue
the
<hallucinogens> >BUT< that has kept me from smokin Rocks of Coke
or
shootin Rocks of HERO-IN.and i very rarely trip but i think that
trippin helps clean the soul if you treat the experience with
the
respect it deserves and go
<+Finger=Deep=Within=-=The=Borderline+>
Well i think its amazing also what Ibogaine does to the opiate
receptors and all the other things it fullfils.  I hear from
quite a
few people though that it is a very very rough ride and there
isnt
much smiling that goes on its quite intense at the full full
dose;-\
but intense can be good. please also check out inuendo
cornucopia.com i think it explains it all i love it.LOVE in a
very
omni-sexual way or plutonic whatevers clever trever never say
never
cuz then you may sever the timeline and then wine about your
realitys mine oh mine so fine do what you will to get your fill
and
satisfy the thrill but don’t spill the swill or he might just
kill
with the wrong pill Ok jill till next time make sure your fine I
still will   =-=-=-=-=AND I”M OUT=-=-=-

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil
Dick

fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at
Community
Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and
would
like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is
looking
into what needs to be done to get space at the church for
that
February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the
White
Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album
by
The
Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron

__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to
bringing
Ibo
to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group
at
22
w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction
Center? We

will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until
after 6.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????NAL FROM ANN ARBOR
Date: October 19, 2002 at 3:56:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well

To that worm inside the peyote button, our world would probably be the one
that’s trippy. Isn’t that an odd thought?

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die several times while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nicholas Labus” <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????NAL FROM ANN ARBOR

Hi This is Nick here are speaking about Universal   Unitarians. or
if not what church i sometimes go to   UU church here in Ann Arbor
and the 2 in Detroit. I have not had the privaledge of  using Ibo to
help me with my opiate addiction I am still on Methadone but it is
the only opiate i have used in over5 months but unfortunatly i did
take some MDMA,MDA,5-meo-dipt,And some gel tabs wich were supposed
to be Lysergic acid Die the ethema ide, and then brought in some
lines of K mixed with DMT and 5-MEO-dmt, and some joints of Salvia D
with the 2 DMT’s in it. We were trying to trip really hard only cuz
i got a free ticket to the TOOL concert Last Night. wich you know
what i really made me hate Heroin and opiates and god damn the
visuals there were SICK!! Everyone there was Sinply FRIED! god there
stage show is magnificent.Jesus! Tool was cool as a dino terd mmixed
with frog poison that took some flys dipped in mescaline with a worm
that smoked a bowl…OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well. My point is that I might overdue the
<hallucinogens> >BUT< that has kept me from smokin Rocks of Coke or
shootin Rocks of HERO-IN.and i very rarely trip but i think that
trippin helps clean the soul if you treat the experience with the
respect it deserves and go <+Finger=Deep=Within=-=The=Borderline+>
Well i think its amazing also what Ibogaine does to the opiate
receptors and all the other things it fullfils.  I hear from quite a
few people though that it is a very very rough ride and there isnt
much smiling that goes on its quite intense at the full full dose;-\
but intense can be good. please also check out inuendo
cornucopia.com i think it explains it all i love it.LOVE in a very
omni-sexual way or plutonic whatevers clever trever never say never
cuz then you may sever the timeline and then wine about your
realitys mine oh mine so fine do what you will to get your fill and
satisfy the thrill but don’t spill the swill or he might just kill
with the wrong pill Ok jill till next time make sure your fine I
still will   =-=-=-=-=AND I”M OUT=-=-=-

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil Dick

fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at Community
Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and
would
like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is
looking
into what needs to be done to get space at the church for that
February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the White
Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album by
The
Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron

__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing
Ibo
to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group at
22
w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction Center? We

will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until
after 6.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????NAL FROM ANN ARBOR
Date: October 19, 2002 at 3:44:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi This is Nick here are speaking about Universal   Unitarians. or
if not what church i sometimes go to   UU church here in Ann Arbor
and the 2 in Detroit. I have not had the privaledge of  using Ibo to
help me with my opiate addiction I am still on Methadone but it is
the only opiate i have used in over5 months but unfortunatly i did
take some MDMA,MDA,5-meo-dipt,And some gel tabs wich were supposed
to be Lysergic acid Die the ethema ide, and then brought in some
lines of K mixed with DMT and 5-MEO-dmt, and some joints of Salvia D
with the 2 DMT’s in it. We were trying to trip really hard only cuz
i got a free ticket to the TOOL concert Last Night. wich you know
what i really made me hate Heroin and opiates and god damn the
visuals there were SICK!! Everyone there was Sinply FRIED! god there
stage show is magnificent.Jesus! Tool was cool as a dino terd mmixed
with frog poison that took some flys dipped in mescaline with a worm
that smoked a bowl…OH have you ever thought about what’s going
through the mind of the worm that lives in a peyote or San pedro
cactus!!wow what an existence cuz the mom lays the embrios right
inside and there born in there food sorce thats just thourowly laced
up with mescaline and 22 different alkaloids im sure 1 of them is
<=>hallucinogenic<=><OH well. My point is that I might overdue the
<hallucinogens> >BUT< that has kept me from smokin Rocks of Coke or
shootin Rocks of HERO-IN.and i very rarely trip but i think that
trippin helps clean the soul if you treat the experience with the
respect it deserves and go <+Finger=Deep=Within=-=The=Borderline+>
Well i think its amazing also what Ibogaine does to the opiate
receptors and all the other things it fullfils.  I hear from quite a
few people though that it is a very very rough ride and there isnt
much smiling that goes on its quite intense at the full full dose;-\
but intense can be good. please also check out inuendo
cornucopia.com i think it explains it all i love it.LOVE in a very
omni-sexual way or plutonic whatevers clever trever never say never
cuz then you may sever the timeline and then wine about your
realitys mine oh mine so fine do what you will to get your fill and
satisfy the thrill but don’t spill the swill or he might just kill
with the wrong pill Ok jill till next time make sure your fine I
still will   =-=-=-=-=AND I”M OUT=-=-=-

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil Dick

fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at Community
Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and
would
like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is
looking
into what needs to be done to get space at the church for that
February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the White
Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album by
The
Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron

__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing
Ibo
to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group at
22
w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction Center? We

will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until
after 6.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 3:36:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

in some drug instances, vomiting may be part of the
experience, an integral
thing. In those cases I upchuck with religious
passion, and try to make the
most of it.

Absolutely. Most of the time if you are gonna puke,
you are gonna puke eventually anyway, just less of
it/less often. It is not so much to stop it all, just
to be more comfortable and not over-due it with the
vomiting – which can happen. Ibogaine seems to detox,
make fluid and phlegm come out, sometimes black vomit
or piss. It depends on how TOXIC someone is. Me, I am
clean and not toxic at all, don’t NEED to puke and
don’t but other people who are highly toxic can do
with some good cleansing. The one time I did vomit (I
was toxic) was hours and hours after the ibo, I was
not sick, just one masterful HUGE voiding all at once
-and I needed it at the time.

Vomiting is not a bad thing.

Brett

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die
several times while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

For future reference, does mj work as an
anti-emetic
in this instance, or

Sure it will help. The BIG thing is not to move,
once
you start moving you will likely get sick, once
you
are sick you are SICK (pretty much). Keep still,
move
slowly. NO anti-emetic is going to help very much
if a
patient is moving around, they will still likely
get
sick – just a bit less. Stay still, if the patient
moves, move VERY VERY slowly and let the body
adjust
to the moving – eg, sit-up in bed slowly, let the
sloshing (so to speak) ease up, turn to the side
of
the bed, let yourself adjust, stand-up slowly, let
the
oozyness subside, then start to walk… Keep the
head
in line with the body the whole time. You may have
to
put your hand on them to regulate how fast they
move,
they may not be able to judge how fast they move
so
guide them if necessary – in other words you can
say
move slowly and they may POP-UP in bed… in which
case they turn several shades of green and land
flat
back in bed…

Did I say to KEEP STILL??? That is the #1, #2 and
#3
best thing you can do to keep from getting sick.
So I
will say it again “KEEP STILL”, do not move. Lie
flat
on your back is usually the best position.

does it potentiate the ibo (which may not be a
bad
thing)? Of course this
could mean either smoked or eaten.

I wouldn’t eat it with ibo and wouldn’t use very
much
either. Smoking will not potentiate ibo, just
relaxes,
they do not conflict and seem to go well together

from what I have heard of course…

ONCE AGAIN, STAY STILL (repeat that 1000 times).

One other thing, don’t move too fast in front of
the
patient, don’t ZOOM IN their face, don’t wave
hands
around – that can make the oozy. YOu as the guide
need
to move slowly too.

Brett

– jt

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 2:52:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I never thought I’d meet anyone who’s mastered the art of vomiting as I
have. Everything Brett says below is so true. Move SLOWLY, ever so slowly.
I’ve found if you can get your way into the lotus position, that helps as
well, and just sit there and breathe deeply until the sickness passes. But,
in some drug instances, vomiting may be part of the experience, an integral
thing. In those cases I upchuck with religious passion, and try to make the
most of it.

Chris

—————–
“One pays dearly for immortality: one has to die several times while still
alive.- ”
—————–
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

For future reference, does mj work as an anti-emetic
in this instance, or

Sure it will help. The BIG thing is not to move, once
you start moving you will likely get sick, once you
are sick you are SICK (pretty much). Keep still, move
slowly. NO anti-emetic is going to help very much if a
patient is moving around, they will still likely get
sick – just a bit less. Stay still, if the patient
moves, move VERY VERY slowly and let the body adjust
to the moving – eg, sit-up in bed slowly, let the
sloshing (so to speak) ease up, turn to the side of
the bed, let yourself adjust, stand-up slowly, let the
oozyness subside, then start to walk… Keep the head
in line with the body the whole time. You may have to
put your hand on them to regulate how fast they move,
they may not be able to judge how fast they move so
guide them if necessary – in other words you can say
move slowly and they may POP-UP in bed… in which
case they turn several shades of green and land flat
back in bed…

Did I say to KEEP STILL??? That is the #1, #2 and #3
best thing you can do to keep from getting sick. So I
will say it again “KEEP STILL”, do not move. Lie flat
on your back is usually the best position.

does it potentiate the ibo (which may not be a bad
thing)? Of course this
could mean either smoked or eaten.

I wouldn’t eat it with ibo and wouldn’t use very much
either. Smoking will not potentiate ibo, just relaxes,
they do not conflict and seem to go well together –
from what I have heard of course…

ONCE AGAIN, STAY STILL (repeat that 1000 times).

One other thing, don’t move too fast in front of the
patient, don’t ZOOM IN their face, don’t wave hands
around – that can make the oozy. YOu as the guide need
to move slowly too.

Brett

– jt

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 11:13:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For future reference, does mj work as an anti-emetic
in this instance, or

Sure it will help. The BIG thing is not to move, once
you start moving you will likely get sick, once you
are sick you are SICK (pretty much). Keep still, move
slowly. NO anti-emetic is going to help very much if a
patient is moving around, they will still likely get
sick – just a bit less. Stay still, if the patient
moves, move VERY VERY slowly and let the body adjust
to the moving – eg, sit-up in bed slowly, let the
sloshing (so to speak) ease up, turn to the side of
the bed, let yourself adjust, stand-up slowly, let the
oozyness subside, then start to walk… Keep the head
in line with the body the whole time. You may have to
put your hand on them to regulate how fast they move,
they may not be able to judge how fast they move so
guide them if necessary – in other words you can say
move slowly and they may POP-UP in bed… in which
case they turn several shades of green and land flat
back in bed…

Did I say to KEEP STILL??? That is the #1, #2 and #3
best thing you can do to keep from getting sick. So I
will say it again “KEEP STILL”, do not move. Lie flat
on your back is usually the best position.

does it potentiate the ibo (which may not be a bad
thing)? Of course this
could mean either smoked or eaten.

I wouldn’t eat it with ibo and wouldn’t use very much
either. Smoking will not potentiate ibo, just relaxes,
they do not conflict and seem to go well together –
from what I have heard of course…

ONCE AGAIN, STAY STILL (repeat that 1000 times).

One other thing, don’t move too fast in front of the
patient, don’t ZOOM IN their face, don’t wave hands
around – that can make the oozy. YOu as the guide need
to move slowly too.

Brett

– jt

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 19, 2002 at 10:26:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 03:48 19.10.2002, you wrote:

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing
Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Hi Dana,

have you seen Mario Van Peebles’s movie Panther? According to it,
BPP was basically destroyed because of FBI infiltration, and FBI
agents were responsible for bringing heroin into ghettos (with
genereous help of mafia), so the movement died out.

Maybe it’s time that the same organization brings cure into ghettos?
Would be great, possibly without “help” of government agents this
time 😉

Marko

They’re still around. And some of them relate to Ibo. This Unitarian
thing could be good for extending the Sacrament of Transition.

Dana/cnw

Dana/cnw

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 19, 2002 at 8:12:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 03:48 19.10.2002, you wrote:

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Hi Dana,

have you seen Mario Van Peebles’s movie Panther? According to it, BPP was basically destroyed because of FBI infiltration, and FBI agents were responsible for bringing heroin into ghettos (with genereous help of mafia), so the movement died out.

Maybe it’s time that the same organization brings cure into ghettos? Would be great, possibly without “help” of government agents this time 😉

Marko

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 7:00:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That should be good enough ,Just make him breath deep if he is restless  and let him to stay still ,
the more movement the greater the chance that he can vomit if that will happen after few hours that’s wouldn’t matter ,
just try to make him comfortable with you , and drink a little water  .

All the best ,

Sara,
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Debra Newman
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:20 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

Hello everyone, my name is Marc Emery.

My adopted son, a heroin and methadone addict for 4 years, along with his girlfriend of 4 years (also addicted), were administered iboga (3,800 mg whole extract, for my son, 2,800 mg. for the woman) 25 days ago. I saw them at day 21, the transformation from hollowed, gaunt, dazed lethargy (and all those illnesses!), into healthy, robust individuals. I was staggered.

An employee of mine, I sent to Amsterdam three years ago, to Sara Glatt for whole iboga extract, my first person I assisted to get treatment. (Woman, 82 kg, 5,000 mg.)

In four days, I will administer 4,000 mg. whole iboga extract to a 20 year old, poly addicted (cocaine/heroin) male. This is my first time administering this substance, though I have procured the extract for my son and his friend, financed and arranged Amsterdam therapy visits for an employee. I have read about 250pages of the literature in the Ibogaine Dossier and other web sites.

I have talked alot to Dana Beal, a little to Dr. Malemede.

So I want anyone toadd suggestions to my intended plan:

Martin fixes, Monday 2.00  p.m.

Comes to my place. Hangs out. No food or eating except a litle fruit or small amount only. Interact with Martin, talk about the next day, talk about music. Watch Poyaqquatsi. Go to bed at midnight.

Martin wakes at 8.00, showers, gets comfortable.

At  2.00 p.m. , 150 mg Extract in gel cap administered to see adverse reaction.

An hour later,  administer  1,200 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk (5.00 p.m.)

Room kept fairly dark after onset. Pail for urination at the bedside, washroom nearby.
3 attendents total ,organized in 8 hour shifts. Hydration necessary, Over the next period of visualizations and experience, observe any unusual reactions.

———

Any comments please?

Thanks,

Marc Emery

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 5:47:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>

You can use an anti-emetic to make the patient more
comfortable (eg dramamine), some people do it, some
don’t use anti-emetics.

For future reference, does mj work as an anti-emetic in this instance, or
does it potentiate the ibo (which may not be a bad thing)? Of course this
could mean either smoked or eaten.

– jt

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 4:28:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: debra56@execulink.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc

into healthy, robust individuals. I was
staggered.

You should see how it feels from “this” side…

Comes to my place. Hangs out. No food or eating
except a litle fruit or small amount only. Interact

He needs a good 12 hours (+) , can (IMO) eat (real)
fruit or juice till about 4 hours before treatment –
so he could eat the evening before.

with Martin, talk about the next day, talk about
music. Watch Poyaqquatsi. Go to bed at midnight.

Martin wakes at 8.00, showers, gets comfortable.

Shower, pee, yes, “get comfortable”.

At  2.00 p.m. , 150 mg Extract in gel cap
administered to see adverse reaction.

150 mg isn’t enough, try 1/2-1gm a couple hours before
the main dose.

An hour later,  administer  1,200 mg. in gel caps
with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps
with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps
with milk (5.00 p.m.)

Some do it that way, you cold give it all at once
(except the tester dose). To me it is LONG ENOUGH
without making it longer, I want it overwith so I
would do it all at once – but broken up as above is
fine.  You didn’t say how big and how bad a habit the
patient has, 4gm should/could do it, he can take more
(eg 5gm total, 1gm test followed by 4). YOu can also
give him/her a little more once you get started if
withdrawals start (they should be mild) or the next
day. DO NOT go over 6gm of ibo for the treatment the
first day. It also may be helpful to just give him
another 1gm in a day or so even if he doesn’t seem to
meed it much. Keep in mind that ibogaine has some
withdrawl-like symptoms and addicts may also have some
minor withdrawals – usually it seems (to them) much
worse than it is.

You can use an anti-emetic to make the patient more
comfortable (eg dramamine), some people do it, some
don’t use anti-emetics. Ginger tea also helps, DO NOT
MOVE helps the most, if he has to, keep the head fixed
with the body and turn the whole body very slowly.
Long slow deep breaths (4 seconds in, hold for 4, out
in 4 and wait for 4 secones) for any anxiety – usually
happens the first few hours.

Room kept fairly dark after onset. Pail for
urination at the bedside, washroom nearby.

For PUKE too, again, pee first. Ibogaine seems to
cause a very slight amount of urgency to urinate once
you start peeing, so he doesn’t have to get-up right
away.

3 attendents total ,organized in 8 hour shifts.
Hydration necessary, Over the next period of

Wait several hours before administering any fluids so
the ibo gets absorbed.

visualizations and experience, observe any unusual
reactions.

There are many unusual reactions that are quite normal
and nothing to worry about. If there is a vision he
doesn’t like, simply blink.

I would also suggest being ready for a re-treat, some
need it, others don’t – extending the treatment by
giving a bit more ibo (depends on how he is doing as
to what/how much) after the main dose (extended
treatment) will lessen the need/will be more
effective. See how he is doing and ask the
list/contact a guide if you have any questions. I
would also get the # of a guide and keep it handy,
right next to emergency numbers (ambulance???)

Also, follow protocol. He needs EKG, physical, liver
checked… DO NOT MIX WITH MEDICATIONS unless you are
sure they mix with ibo, NO DOPE or if he is going to
after the ibo, cut it way back – like to 1/3rd a dose.

All IMO of course

Good luck

Brett

———

Any comments please?

Thanks,

Marc Emery

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 19, 2002 at 3:20:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Debra Newman <debra56@execulink.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everyone, my name is Marc Emery.

My adopted son, a heroin and methadone addict for 4 years, along with his girlfriend of 4 years (also addicted), were administered iboga (3,800 mg whole extract, for my son, 2,800 mg. for the woman) 25 days ago. I saw them at day 21, the transformation from hollowed, gaunt, dazed lethargy (and all those illnesses!), into healthy, robust individuals. I was staggered.

An employee of mine, I sent to Amsterdam three years ago, to Sara Glatt for whole iboga extract, my first person I assisted to get treatment. (Woman, 82 kg, 5,000 mg.)

In four days, I will administer 4,000 mg. whole iboga extract to a 20 year old, poly addicted (cocaine/heroin) male. This is my first time administering this substance, though I have procured the extract for my son and his friend, financed and arranged Amsterdam therapy visits for an employee. I have read about 250pages of the literature in the Ibogaine Dossier and other web sites.

I have talked alot to Dana Beal, a little to Dr. Malemede.

So I want anyone toadd suggestions to my intended plan:

Martin fixes, Monday 2.00  p.m.

Comes to my place. Hangs out. No food or eating except a litle fruit or small amount only. Interact with Martin, talk about the next day, talk about music. Watch Poyaqquatsi. Go to bed at midnight.

Martin wakes at 8.00, showers, gets comfortable.

At  2.00 p.m. , 150 mg Extract in gel cap administered to see adverse reaction.

An hour later,  administer  1,200 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer    1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk (5.00 p.m.)

Room kept fairly dark after onset. Pail for urination at the bedside, washroom nearby.
3 attendents total ,organized in 8 hour shifts. Hydration necessary, Over the next period of visualizations and experience, observe any unusual reactions.

———

Any comments please?

Thanks,

Marc Emery

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attention, John Hughes
Date: October 19, 2002 at 2:47:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very good, Dana.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <letters@desnews.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 6:55 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Attention, John Hughes

Sir

Re: URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1941.a03.html

If the “crux of the drug problem”, as you say, is the “regeneration
of the user”–I have to ask:  what if the drug that could CURE
addiction was itself ILLEGAL?

Which would you say was more responsible for the problem with illicit
drugs– some people smoking pot somewhere, or the fact the government
is keeping a cure for addiction from the American people?

I know one drug we should legalize right away.

Have you heard of Ibogaine? It is a schedule one drug, like marijuana
or LSD– totally prohibited for use by Doctors.

But what if the Nixon-era lawmakers, in their rush to prohibit
everything that could get you high, made a mistake?

Thirty years ago, at the height of the LSD scare, they put Ibogaine
on a list with psylocybin and mescaline, without any idea of its
medical properties. Even today, most people are not aware what a
breakthrough Ibogaine is in the treatment of addictions– or the fact
that researchers at 4 or 5 major Universities are in a race to find a
form of Ibogaine that the FDA will approve.

This rainforest alkaloid has been reported to act as an addiction
interrupter across a wide spectrum of abused substances, legal and
illegal, in more more than 200 peer-reviewed scientific papers. A
unique effect is the simultaneous loss of multiple addictions–for
example opiates, meth-amphetamine, crack, alcohol and
cigarettes–after as little as a single treatment.

Ibogaine is the first pharmacotherapy where, when the treatment wears
off, addicts are free of both physical withdrawal and psychological
craving. And where opioid maintenance (methadone) or blockers
(naltrexone) fail to address the underlying dopaminergic disorder
(craving), re-treatment with Ibogaine (should uncontrollable cravings
re-cur, or in the event or relapse) is safe and easy.
.
With Ibogaine, the acute phase that requires bed-rest takes just two
days. Even with a period to keep them under observation in case you
have to administer another, smaller dose after 4 to 6 days for
residual cravings, folks can be back at work in just under two weeks.
The stumbling block, as always, is funding–plus lack of the support
Ibogaine would have if more people realized it’s not some far-off
possibility in the distant future, but an option already available
for those who can afford to travel.

It is only illegal in the U.S., Switzerland, and Belgium. In the U.S,
we have countered the prohibition by promoting para-clinical ibogaine
treatments for as little as $600 in Britain and other countries where
Ibogaine is not specifically prohibited. It is available in St.
Kitts, through the University of Miami, Mexico City and Tijuana. We
are opening clinics in Vancouver, Windsor, and Montreal.

The only reason there’s currently a shortage of treatment beds for
addicts is that we’re not using the latest technology to cut the
length of inpatient treatment.

I believe Ibogaine, and the whole plant iboga extract which contains
all 12 iboga alkaloids (and is preferred for methadone det-tox), is
rapidly becoming another legalization “poster child” akin to medical
marijuana.

Dana Beal/co-Founder, CURES not WARS/212-677-4899.

P.S: THE IBOGAINE STORY is online at
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html … A safer form of
ibogaine developed by NIDA-accredited researchers can be found a
http://www.ibogaine.org/18-mc/index.html .

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 19, 2002 at 2:20:04 AM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, that’s cute. Base64-encoded html attachment to launch something in an
iFrame, I would assume, but am not bothering to decode it.

Sygate and ZoneAlarm make decent, free firewalls, and both are better than
BlackIce (which is not free), and AVG makes great, free anti-virus software
… or, as Patrick mentioned, don’t use Billy Gate’s bastard child of an OS,
or use something other than Outlook or Outlook Express for email. Unless you
really have to, as I do, unfortunately. Newbies with Linux can have massive
security holes in their schtuff as well, but won’t get into that too much.
Just learn how to use it if you have it.

Free Stuff that helps the situation with Windoze:

Sygate Personal Firewall – http://soho.sygate.com/products/shield_ov.htm

ZoneAlarm fireall – http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/home.jsp

(btw, you only need one firewall, and using two at once can cause problems)

AVG Anti-Virus – http://www.grisoft.com/

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

We haven’t opened the additional lists yet, since the beta is finally
stable and not FLYING out of anything.  Basically this means the Vox list
will be absorbed therein; and ibogaine and drugwar will continue as they
are now, and get gently blended into the mix once it is HIGHLY stable, and
we’re sure nothing will be disrupted.

I will toss an endline onto the messages, and make it simpler for the
terminally brain dead to unsubscribe, in the near future — meaning;
coming no later than 2004.

– – – – – – – – –

On another topic.  The lists are closed, this means that most spam,
viruses, shit like that, gets stripped out and does not land here.

However, there are various script kiddies sending out crap and
cross-posting it — or attempting to anyway.

Fer instance, this:

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100
From: HSL123 <HSL123@aol.com>
Subject: Sep 12 2002 19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(Which was filtered out).  Is Howard’s email address that he uses to post
to calyx, with someone attempting to spoof it to [Here].  And where it
actually comes from is:

<skript kiddie crap snipped>

^^^ Alla that will do absolutely nothing to a Unix box, Mac, or any
machine which isn’t running Windoze and/or Outlook.

If you are using Windoze and POP to Outlook, or read shit in IE5/6, then
it’s a REALLY EXCELLENT idea to have Norton anti-virus, or sumthin’ of
that nature, or you will eventually be sorry.

Basically, to put it into laymen’s terms: Windoze is a pile of shit virus
magnet, and Outlook is swiss cheese.

Just mentioning,

Patrick

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] Fw: [Big-Medicine] John Perry Barlow: The American Republic is Dead
Date: October 19, 2002 at 1:31:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Speaking of word-wrapping … farging Winblowz ..

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

How do I get on the list. I went to one of these parties, and it was
pretty cool.

I dunno … I emailed John and asked him to put me on his list. We’ll see
what happens. He says he reads all his email, though this particular message
may get a lot of responses. If you want me to send this one again to you or
the list in a format without the word-wrapping and “>” symbols, lemme know.
Might be easier to read and forward, though have forwarded it around a lot
already.

The instructions for subscribing to Big-Medicine, where this was forwarded,
is on the bottom of the original email, but it’s a globalization awareness
list, FYI.

– jt

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] Fw: [Big-Medicine] John Perry Barlow: The American Republic is Dead
Date: October 19, 2002 at 1:28:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

How do I get on the list. I went to one of these parties, and it was
pretty cool.

I dunno … I emailed John and asked him to put me on his list. We’ll see what happens. He says he reads all his email, though this
particular message may get a lot of responses. If you want me to send this one again to you or the list in a format without the
word-wrapping and “>” symbols, lemme know. Might be easier to read and forward, though have forwarded it around a lot already.

The instructions for subscribing to Big-Medicine, where this was forwarded, is on the bottom of the original email, but it’s a
globalization awareness list, FYI.

– jt

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] warez, serialz, trojanz
Date: October 18, 2002 at 10:36:15 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.serialz.to/links.html

http://www.evileyesoftware.com/ees/products/products.shtml

http://sling.to/fosi/

http://kickme.to/FOSI

http://www.wtcracks.com/1.html

http://cracks.ss.ru/S.html

http://www.hanmir.com/

http://www.trojanforge.net/

http://www.megasecurity.org/Firewall_related.html#backdoor

Kickme and Slingto are high bandwidth mirrors and have never had any viruses in my experience. Always run a virus checker on anything you download from these anyway 🙂

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Attention, John Hughes
Date: October 18, 2002 at 9:55:35 PM EDT
To: letters@desnews.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com, marc@cannabisculture.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sir

Re: URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1941.a03.html

If the “crux of the drug problem”, as you say, is the “regeneration
of the user”–I have to ask:  what if the drug that could CURE
addiction was itself ILLEGAL?

Which would you say was more responsible for the problem with illicit
drugs– some people smoking pot somewhere, or the fact the government
is keeping a cure for addiction from the American people?

I know one drug we should legalize right away.

Have you heard of Ibogaine? It is a schedule one drug, like marijuana
or LSD– totally prohibited for use by Doctors.

But what if the Nixon-era lawmakers, in their rush to prohibit
everything that could get you high, made a mistake?

Thirty years ago, at the height of the LSD scare, they put Ibogaine
on a list with psylocybin and mescaline, without any idea of its
medical properties. Even today, most people are not aware what a
breakthrough Ibogaine is in the treatment of addictions– or the fact
that researchers at 4 or 5 major Universities are in a race to find a
form of Ibogaine that the FDA will approve.

This rainforest alkaloid has been reported to act as an addiction
interrupter across a wide spectrum of abused substances, legal and
illegal, in more more than 200 peer-reviewed scientific papers. A
unique effect is the simultaneous loss of multiple addictions–for
example opiates, meth-amphetamine, crack, alcohol and
cigarettes–after as little as a single treatment.

Ibogaine is the first pharmacotherapy where, when the treatment wears
off, addicts are free of both physical withdrawal and psychological
craving. And where opioid maintenance (methadone) or blockers
(naltrexone) fail to address the underlying dopaminergic disorder
(craving), re-treatment with Ibogaine (should uncontrollable cravings
re-cur, or in the event or relapse) is safe and easy.
.
With Ibogaine, the acute phase that requires bed-rest takes just two
days. Even with a period to keep them under observation in case you
have to administer another, smaller dose after 4 to 6 days for
residual cravings, folks can be back at work in just under two weeks.
The stumbling block, as always, is funding–plus lack of the support
Ibogaine would have if more people realized it’s not some far-off
possibility in the distant future, but an option already available
for those who can afford to travel.

It is only illegal in the U.S., Switzerland, and Belgium. In the U.S,
we have countered the prohibition by promoting para-clinical ibogaine
treatments for as little as $600 in Britain and other countries where
Ibogaine is not specifically prohibited. It is available in St.
Kitts, through the University of Miami, Mexico City and Tijuana. We
are opening clinics in Vancouver, Windsor, and Montreal.

The only reason there’s currently a shortage of treatment beds for
addicts is that we’re not using the latest technology to cut the
length of inpatient treatment.

I believe Ibogaine, and the whole plant iboga extract which contains
all 12 iboga alkaloids (and is preferred for methadone det-tox), is
rapidly becoming another legalization “poster child” akin to medical
marijuana.

Dana Beal/co-Founder, CURES not WARS/212-677-4899.

P.S: THE IBOGAINE STORY is online at
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html … A safer form of
ibogaine developed by NIDA-accredited researchers can be found a
http://www.ibogaine.org/18-mc/index.html .

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 18, 2002 at 9:48:28 PM EDT
To: “Ron Sala” <ronsala@uuma.org>
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com, aiviarose@netscape.net, barlow@eff.org, cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu, clayhoney@hotmail.com, cnw@cures-not-wars.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, ekwaus@yahoo.com, HSL123@aol.com, J_Dillard@hotmail.com, kid_lucky@hotmail.com, narda@lifefood.com, Nmitsogo@aol.com, NPNReality@aol.com, PGBenjamin@aol.com, phuture2010@hotmail.com, Suziknkbell@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil Dick fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at Community Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and would like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is looking into what needs to be done to get space at the church for that February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the White Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album by The Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron
__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group at 22 w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction Center? We will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until after 6.

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME
Date: October 18, 2002 at 4:00:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

rETUNING MAIL.  SEND NO MORE!

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 18, 2002 at 3:35:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t understand. Could you be more blunt please?

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:05:55 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Basically, to put it into laymen’s terms: Windoze is a pile of shit
virus
magnet, and Outlook is swiss cheese.

Just mentioning,

Patrick

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 18, 2002 at 3:05:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We haven’t opened the additional lists yet, since the beta is finally
stable and not FLYING out of anything.  Basically this means the Vox list
will be absorbed therein; and ibogaine and drugwar will continue as they
are now, and get gently blended into the mix once it is HIGHLY stable, and
we’re sure nothing will be disrupted.

I will toss an endline onto the messages, and make it simpler for the
terminally brain dead to unsubscribe, in the near future — meaning;
coming no later than 2004.

– – – – – – – – –

On another topic.  The lists are closed, this means that most spam,
viruses, shit like that, gets stripped out and does not land here.

However, there are various script kiddies sending out crap and
cross-posting it — or attempting to anyway.

Fer instance, this:

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100
From: HSL123 <HSL123@aol.com>
Subject: Sep 12 2002 19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(Which was filtered out).  Is Howard’s email address that he uses to post
to calyx, with someone attempting to spoof it to [Here].  And where it
actually comes from is:

Return-Path: <lizmerritt@lineone.net>
Delivered-To: moderator for ibogaine@mindvox.com
Received: (qmail 5335 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2002 17:34:33 -0000
Received: from mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (212.74.114.40)
by 63.121.102.214 with SMTP; 18 Oct 2002 17:34:33 -0000
Received: from [62.6.67.127] (helo=Jcmloik)
by mk-smarthost-4.mail.u        id 182bAx-0004bL-00
for ibogaine@mindvox.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100
From: HSL123 <HSL123@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Sep 12 2002 19
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=BLQ274sT97MN26bcR7
Message-Id: <E182bAx-0004bL-00@mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100

–BLQ274sT97MN26bcR7
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
name=hmhome[8].html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <Lkt5I26cnncZ8xD41RT>

PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjx0aXRsZT5Ib3RtYWlsIEhvbWU8L3RpdGxlPg0KPGxpbmsgcmVs
PSJzdHlsZXNoZWV0IiBocmVmPSIvY2dpLWJpbi9kYXNwL0VOL2hvdG1haWxfX185MDUwMDAw
NTEuY3NzIj4NCjxzY3JpcHQgbGFuZ3VhZ2U9IkphdmFTY3JpcHQiIHNyYz0iL2NnaS1iaW4v
ZGFzcC9FTi9ob3RtYWlsX19fOTA1MDAwMDYzLmpzIj48L3NjcmlwdD4NCjxzY3JpcHQgZXZl

– – – – – – – – –

^^^ Alla that will do absolutely nothing to a Unix box, Mac, or any
machine which isn’t running Windoze and/or Outlook.

If you are using Windoze and POP to Outlook, or read shit in IE5/6, then
it’s a REALLY EXCELLENT idea to have Norton anti-virus, or sumthin’ of
that nature, or you will eventually be sorry.

Basically, to put it into laymen’s terms: Windoze is a pile of shit virus
magnet, and Outlook is swiss cheese.

Just mentioning,

Patrick

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ACLU Acts Against Patriot Act
Date: October 18, 2002 at 1:39:49 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@Mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,55838,00.html

02:00 PM Oct. 16, 2002 PDT

The American Civil Liberties Union rolled out a national campaign
Wednesday to challenge government anti-terror policies that the group
deems undemocratic.

Dubbed Keep America Safe and Free, the multimillion-dollar effort was
announced by the ACLU at a Washington press conference that highlighted
accounts from several peace activists who claimed they’d been singled
out by authorities because of their political views.

“The Bush administration has presented Americans with a false dichotomy
that we must choose between being safe or free,” said ACLU national
spokeswoman Emily Whitfield. “We’re saying there doesn’t have to be a
choice. We can stay safe and free at the same time.”

The ACLU has filed 24 lawsuits for civil liberties violations since the
Sept. 11 attacks, including several for airline passengers who claim
they were kicked off flights or singled out for questioning because of
their dark skin.

The group will air television spots featuring a close-up of a hand
cutting up and rewriting the U.S. Constitution as a voiceover charges
Attorney General John Ashcroft with violating the First and Fourth
amendments, which guarantee free speech and guards against unreasonable
searches and seizures.

The ACLU is also actively looking for people who feel they have been
“victimized” by the expanded government powers granted by the Patriot
Act or Operation TIPS, which encourages the public to report their
neighbors’ suspicious behavior to the FBI. (The site states that more
than 200,000 tips have been filed since Sept. 11.)

Several people have already stepped forward alleging government
harassment, including:

A.J. Brown, a 20-year-old antiwar activist and computer major at Durham
Technical Community College in North Carolina. Brown was questioned by
the Secret Service after an anonymous tipster called the agency to
denounce an anti-Bush poster hanging in her apartment. The poster
depicts Bush holding a length of rope over a backdrop of figures
hanging by their necks and criticizes the number of death row inmates
who were executed during Bush’s tenure as Texas governor.

Brown was getting ready for a Friday night date when two agents from
the Raleigh office and a local police investigator showed up at her
doorstep, saying they’d received a report that she had “anti-American”
material in her apartment. They had no warrant, so she refused to grant
them entry, but opened the door wide enough to let them view the
poster, she said.

For 45 minutes, they tried to convince her to let them into her
apartment, to check if she had any maps of Afghanistan or pro-Taliban
material, she said.

“I kept saying no,” Brown said. “Finally, I was like, ‘I think the
Taliban are assholes,’ and they left a little later. At first I thought
they were rounding up activists and incarcerating them; I was scared.
After they’d gone, I didn’t know whether to scream or laugh my head
off.”

Brown, who refused to give her complete name out of fear of reprisals
for her anti-Bush views, will be featured in some of the ACLU
commercials.

Andrew Mandell, a member of Voices in the Wilderness, a group that
protests U.S. sanctions against Iraq. Mandell was questioned by Chicago
police and a postal inspector after refusing to use stamps featuring
the American flag on a newsletter going out to 4,000 of the group’s
supporters.

“Because of the work we do, we felt some people might be offended by
the stamp, so we asked for any stamp but the American flag stamp,” said
Mandell.

The postal worker asked Mandell and a colleague to wait while she got
the stamps, then went into a back room to phone the police. Two cops
arrived, asked Mandell what he had against the flag, and left after he
explained the group’s position. The postal worker told Mandell to
return for his stamps the next day. When he did, a postal inspector
took him into a back room to ask about the group’s activities and
funding. Additionally, the inspector requested to inspect the mass
mailing before it was sent; Mandell acquiesced.

“It felt like he had a lot of power to make my life miserable,” Mandell
said. “I didn’t like the potential of the situation.”

Sarah Backus, the co-coordinator of the Wisconsin chapter of the School
of the Americas Watch, a group that accuses the Georgia military school
of training Latin American soldiers to commit human rights violations.
The group was in the Milwaukee airport on its way to lobby Congress to
shut the school down when Midwest Express informed 20 of the 37 members
that they were on a “no fly” list and could not board their plane,
Backus said.

The group — whose members range from high school students to a nun —
was pulled aside and questioned by a group of sheriff’s deputies. The
FAA couldn’t be reached for instructions on how to handle the situation
before the flight, and the airline put the group up at a hotel. They
flew out the next morning without incident.

Backus said the group was never told why certain members were flagged,
although one deputy theorized that it was because they were “protesting
America” and another deputy mused that member Jacob Laden’s last name
was a lot like Osama bin Laden’s.

“It was like keystone cops,” said Backus. “But at the same time it all
felt covert and frightening.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] Fw: [Big-Medicine] John Perry Barlow: The American Republic is Dead
Date: October 18, 2002 at 1:34:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:47:32 -0700
Subject: [vox] Fw: [Big-Medicine] John Perry Barlow: The American
Republic is Dead

—– Original Message —–
From: “->Forward->” <yes@pobox.com>
To: “Loving Spoonfuls” <big-medicine@yahoogroups.com>

[former lyricist for the Grateful Dead, and internet pioneer
www.eff.org]

^

<(o)>

/_              _\
—–>  B a R L o W F R i e N D Z
—–>

<A continuing series of occasional outbursts to about 1070 of my
dearest
friends. Please let me know if you wish to be removed from this list.
But
you’ll miss some great parties if you do…

Also, if this broadcast feels as spammish to you as it obviously is,
I hope
you remember that individual responses generally elicit personal
replies.
And whether or not I have time to write back, I always read your
replies
with careful delight.>

How do I get on the list. I went to one of these parties, and it was
pretty cool.

Dana/cnw

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] Fw: [Big-Medicine] John Perry Barlow: The American Republic is Dead
Date: October 18, 2002 at 1:12:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:47:32 -0700
Subject: [vox] Fw: [Big-Medicine] John Perry Barlow: The American
Republic is Dead

—– Original Message —–
From: “->Forward->” <yes@pobox.com>
To: “Loving Spoonfuls” <big-medicine@yahoogroups.com>

[former lyricist for the Grateful Dead, and internet pioneer
www.eff.org]

^

<(o)>

/_              _\
—–>  B a R L o W F R i e N D Z
—–>

<A continuing series of occasional outbursts to about 1070 of my
dearest
friends. Please let me know if you wish to be removed from this list.
But
you’ll miss some great parties if you do…

Also, if this broadcast feels as spammish to you as it obviously is,
I hope
you remember that individual responses generally elicit personal
replies.
And whether or not I have time to write back, I always read your
replies
with careful delight.>

——————————>  ——————-> ——–>

1. What Has Happened.
2. Why This Has Happened.
3. What We Might Do About It Now.

——————————–@#%!!**#@@—————>>>>—>

THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC IS DEAD. HAIL THE AMERICAN EMPIRE. OR ELSE.

My old pal Mitch Kapor said years ago that what I needed was a
“hyperbolectomy.” Were such a procedure to exist, this would probably
be a
good time to get one, since I suddenly find myself incapable of
discussing
the present state of the American Experiment without veering off into
Very
Large Statements.

With that admonition in mind, I hope that you will continue to read
this
rant, adjusting it to your own reality settings. This is just how bad
it
looks to me. From my perspective, this is not hyperbolic at all.

I believe that the American Republic died in the U.S. Senate last
Thursday
morning and was buried yesterday morning in the East Room of the
White
House.

Despite a deluge of calls, letters, and e-mails, which Capital Hill
staffers admitted ran overwhelmingly against the ludicrously-named
“Resolution Authorizing the President to Use Force, if Necessary, to
End
the Threat to World Peace from Saddam Hussein’s Weapons of Mass
Destruction,” Congress extended to George II the authority to make
unlimited and preemptive war against another nation that has neither
attacked us nor shown the ability or inclination to do so.

(Thank you, by the way, for your own contributions to this flood of
futile
dissent. They may have ignored you, but you will sleep better for
knowing
that you were not one of the “silent Germans.”)

The resolution was deemed necessary on several grounds.

– Iraq possesses and is developing weapons of mass destruction – an
unquestioned if Orwellian phrase that makes no qualitative
distinction
between a hundred pounds of spoiled hamburger and a 50 megaton bomb.

– Iraq has flouted a number of U.N. resolutions and international
accords
regarding such weapons, many of which the United States has also
ignored or
abrogated.

– A member of Al-Queda is thought to have visited Iraq.

– Iraq has shown a willingness to use military force in the Middle
East,
again, not unlike ourselves.

– Saddam Hussein is a real son-of-a-bitch who is easier to find than
Osama
bin Laden.

Despite the fact that we have been exposed to far worse during our
history
– whether by Bloody Old England, the Kaiser, Nazi Germany, Imperial
Japan,
the Soviet Union, Red China, or, hell, France on a bad day – we have
never
before declared war without being attacked nor have we extended an
American
President the right to do so at his pleasure.

The dangerous possibility of such behavior was explicitly foreseen by
the
architects of the American Republic when they designed the
Consitution. As
James Madison declared in a letter to James Monroe:

The only case in which the Executive can enter on a war, undeclared
by
Congress, is when a state of war has ‘been actually’ produced by the
conduct of another power, and then it ought to be made known as soon
as
possible to the Department charged with the war power.

Their reasons were eloquently restated by Abraham Lincoln in an 1848
letter
to his law partner, William H. Herndon. Herndon had suggested that
the
United States would be prudent to attack Mexico before they attacked
us, as
they clearly appeared willing to do. Lincoln replied:

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall
deem
it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so
whenever he
may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose – – and you
allow
him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to
his
power in this respect, after you have given him so much as you
propose. If,
to-day, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade
Canada, to
prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may
say
to him, ‘I see no probability of the British invading us’ but he will
say
to you ‘be silent; I see it, if you don’t.’

The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to
Congress,
was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons. Kings had
always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars,
pretending
generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object.
This,
our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly
oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no
one man
should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your
view
destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have
always
stood.

Robert Byrd quoted that passage in his brilliantly Quixotic speech to
the
Senate last week. The Senate ignored him as easily as they ignored
you and
millions of others who believe in American principles.

And now we have a King, George II, where presidents have always
stood.

Today, as he signed his coronation decree, he lied, “I have not
ordered the
use of force. I hope the use of force will not become necessary.”

But, folks, he *has* ordered the use of force and began doing so
shortly
after seizing office. Though you’d scarcely know it to read the
papers,
we’ve been bombing the crap out of Southern Iraq since February 16,
2001,
when we hit five radar installations in the vicinity of Baghdad.
Since
then, the bombing has been increasing steadily. There have been 48
bombing
raids south of the “no-fly zone” so far this year. Iraq claims that
1300
civilians have been killed in these bombings – and, while I doubt
that
number, many of these casualties have been confirmed by international
observers. I’ll bet the last thing those innocent wretches saw looked
a lot
like force to them.

It is not simply that we have made a Caesar of Bush, we have, in
effect,
assented to allowing him the entire world as his Empire.

What this resolution is truly about is the elimination of all
sovereignty
but our own. This is about our becoming the Dad of the World. Having
declared ourselves immune from international prosecution for war
crimes, we
have proposed our right to disregard the sovereignty of any country
that,
in our opinion, doesn’t deserve it.

If another country harbors people we regard as terrorists, they have
forfeited their sovereignty. If they cobble together a few of the
weapons
we possess in stupefying abundance, we will cross their borders and
disarm
them by force. Indeed, if they do anything that might eventually,
left to
develop unchecked, threaten American interests, we will stop them as
brutally as we must.

These statements are not merely polemical on my part. They are
American
policy.

On September 20, the Bush Administration released its National
Security
Strategy. You can find it at http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.pdf.
It
speaks plainly of American  “convincing or compelling states to
accept
their sovereign responsibilities.” According to whom?

In other words, Nations of the World, if you don’t make smart
choices, you
will just have to accept that there will be consequences. Now go
clean your
rooms.

Reading this document, which makes ironic use of the word “freedom”
every
third sentence or so, one begins to imagine the United States as the
jut-jawed marshal, patrolling the world’s mean streets, showing the
lonely
courage that is the sinew of virtue.

But as a fellow Wyomingite, Don Cooper, wrote me after my last rant,
the
metaphor is horribly flawed. The Code of the West required proof of
guilt
and threats made bad. The scoundrels actually had to actually raise
hell
before the marshal took up arms against them.

What we are doing in Iraq is more like this, to quote Cooper:

A storekeeper is sweeping the wooden sidewalk in front of his shop
and sees
a rough stranger approaching. He runs across the street to the
Marshal’s
office crying out and waving his broom in the air. The Marshal comes
out,
asking what all the fuss is about. ‘It’s a bad guy ridin’ into town,
Marshal. I can tell he’s up to no good. Got that look about him. Word
is he
is planning to rob the bank, steal a horse, burn down the church and
slap a
barmaid.’ The Marshal is aghast, ‘Well, not in my town he ain’t!’ The
Marshal grabs his shotgun and waits out in front of the saloon. When
the
stranger rides up, the Marshal levels his shotgun and blows him off
his
horse.

This isn’t American. It’s chickenshit.

I feared it would come to this when I realized, ten years ago, that
we were
the last credible superpower left on the planet. But Bill Clinton,
whatever
his manifold weaknesses, knew that if we were were to possess such
towering
power, we would have to wield it with the humility necessary to
create
moral as well as military force.

He might have had a zipper as slick as his tongue, but he was not
facile
when it came to deploying more lethal weapons. Furthermore, Bill
Clinton
knew himself to be an unlikely instrument for Almighty God. I suspect
Clinton secretly hopes there isn’t One.

But George II has been working for the Lord ever since he was
divinely
instructed some years back to stop snorting blow. He knows that God
wants
us to have oil and that the world’s second largest petroleum reserves
are
not to be entrusted to a people whose divine messenger was, to quote
Jerry
Falwell, “a terrorist.”

I don’t think that our new Emperor is an evil man. But he has the
kind of
unquestioning belief in his own virtue that is the richest loam for
growing
evil. He is simply too weak to possess this kind of power without
misusing
it. And now we have removed all the Constitutional impediments that
might
have checked his hubris. We have thrown ourselves on the mercy of a
conscience too clear to be reliable.

—————————>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

PEACE IS WAR, LOVE IS HATE

How has this tragedy happened?

Why have Americans – whom I still believe are, in their essence, a
decent
people – allowed themselves to become complicit with such
monstrosity.

It’s because the terrorists won. Through incredibly deft manipulation
of  our media, encouraging that which is worst in our government,
they have
already inflicted astonishing casualties on the American mind.

Wherever he may be, I hope the ghost of George Orwell is up to date
on
contemporary American politics. If he is, I’ll bet he’s having a
swell time.

I could give you a million examples of what I’m talking about, but
I’ll
tell you a story instead.

A couple of weeks back, I was asked to do a brief live interview on
MSNBC,
the result of a piece I wrote which appears in the current Forbes
ASAP on
the irremediable failure of the American intelligence system. (You
will
find it at http://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/1007/042.html and I will
spam
you the longer version sometime soon).

I had misgivings about doing this, since I think television is very
bad for
you, no matter which side of the camera you’re on. But, since one of
my
many missions is trying inspire an intelligence system that actually
increases political understanding, I figured I would seize whatever
silly
pulpit they briefly provided me.

They put me in a dark little room with a huge camera and a monitor
that was
displaying the current out-going feed from MSNBC. They wired me up
and I
waited for my cue, with nothing to do but watch the tube and try to
keep
myself from hallucinating as a result.

There ensued a series of events that compelled me to watch a stream
of
televised news longer than any I’ve seen since 911. (When it became
obvious, once and for all, that there was no viewing level that
wasn’t
inimical to clear thought.)

Like so many other bad things, it was Bush’s fault. After I was all
wired
up and seated in involuntary viewing mode, I was suddenly preempted
by an
informal press briefing from the Cabinet Room.

There, apparently sitting across the desk from me, was our still
unannointed Monarch. I sat there in speechless awe as he said, among
other
astonishing things, that we might have to attack Iraq in order to
preserve
peace.

That’s right. We must start a war that there might have peace.

When the anchors came back on after the press briefing, they made
absolutely no note of the surreal logic we’d all been exposed to. It
made
sense to them, I guess.

Nor did they make any mention of the the Malaprop Effect, such as
when the
Resident said, “He [Saddam] faces a true threat to the U.S,” and
didn’t
stop to correct himself. (And, indeed, didn’t even appear to notice.)

Then we got back to “the news.”  All of it was straight out of 1984.
Saddam
Hussein has always been the object of the Two Minute Hate. Osama bin
Laden
was never our Emmanuel Goldstein.

The anchor-bimbo actually hissed whenever she uttered Saddam’s name,
and
she did so involuntarily. I remembered the line from Orwell’s novel,
“The
horrible thing about the Two Minute Hate was not that one was obliged
to
act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in.” I
managed not
to.

There was plenty more Newspeak to follow. For example, practically
everyone
who spoke, anchor or civilian, used the phrase “weapons of mass
destruction,” as if they knew what they were talking about. I don’t
think
they do.

What this insidious phrase does is to equate biological, chemical,
and
nuclear weapons in their degrees of lethality. But, as I said before,
there
is a vast difference between a cylinder of poisonous gas and a 5
megaton
thermonuclear bomb. The former is easy to make but very hard to
deliver in
any massively destructive way. The latter is hard to make and easy to
deliver, at least over short distances. But when it arrives, it
doesn’t
just kill a few hundred commuters.

(Actually the latter is not terribly hard to make. I could probably
do it
with a good machine shop and a hundred kilos of weapons grade
Plutonium.
Making weapons grade Plutonium is very hard, but fortunately for the
evil-doers, the U.S. and Russia have already manufactured so much of
this
vile stuff over the last 57 years that Iraq could, if it wanted to,
probably pick it up from the right Russians simply by signing a few
subrosa
oil contracts.)

Never mind that. My point is, we’re not thinking about these things
to that
level of detail. We’re thinking things like “Weapons of mass
destruction,
bad. Iraq, bad. America, good.” Or Eurasia, bad. Oceania, good.

We’re also accepting rather blandly American support for a brutal
military
dictatorship in Pakistan which really *does* have nuclear weapons as
well
as the means to deliver them quite a distance. Why are we not
disarming
Pakistan? Why, for that matter, are we not disarming France? Or,
perish the
thought, ourselves?

I observed with mounting anxiety the way in which the “news” I
watched that
morning was subtly but continuously slanted to support the war.

For example, while reporting a story regarding considerable Labor
Party
unrest over Blair’s support of Bush, one of the anchors casually (and
rhetorically) asked, “But isn’t that just the old Socialist wing of
Labor
coming back to life?” The question hung in the air like a mild mind
toxin
while they rushed off to the next bit of gory footage.

This involved a deranged person who had tried to slit the throat of a
Greyhouse bus driver in California with a pair of scissors, causing
him to
veer off I-5. There were a number of vivid injuries for the cameras
to feed
on. One of the anchors asked about the attacker, a Mexican-American,
“Do we
know if this guy has any terrorist connections?”

Now is a time to think clearly. But the government and the media are
mutilating the very structure of rational thought by attacking the
language. Noam Chomsky was and is right about this.

Even the more reliable media, like, say, the New York Times, are
editing
reality  in a dangerous way.

For example, somewhere between 15,000 and 30,000 people spontaneously
gathered in Central Park on October 6 and it barely made the papers.
What
few stories did appear placed a distorted emphasis that some of the
bullhorn wielders had made anti-semitic remarks.

It’s no wonder that many of us have been brain-washed into an uneasy
stupor. You are what you watch.

But what about the millions of us who are agitated as hell about
this?  I
know lots of different people, and they aren’t all seditious scum
like me.
Hell, I come from Pinedale, Wyoming, the most conservative place in
the
non-Islamic world. And yet about one in a hundred people that I talk
to
approves of what’s going on. Why don’t we matter anymore?

It pains me deeply to say this, but I think that part of the problem
may be
the Internet.

A lot of what’s wrong may be the very sort of thing you’re reading
right
now.

The Internet, has, as expected, provided a global podium to everyone
with
an opinion. Cyberspace has become an infinite set of street corners,
each
with its lonely pamphleteer, howling his rage to a multitude all too
busy
howling their own to listen.

All of our energy goes into things like this BarlowSpam, energies
that
might be better spent in creating traditional blocs like the NRA, or
the
AARP, or some large group capable of either buying Congress or
scaring the
shit out of them. This screed won’t scare an elected official
anywhere. And
it wouldn’t generate enough money to elect or defeat a dogcatcher.

As much as I loathe organizations, we need to organize.

And we’d better start doing it now before the Empire decides it’s
necessary
to declare a National Emergency and make it lethally illegal to
oppose it.
It could get that bad.

Or it might get oddly worse than that. The Empire has discovered
something
important. The best way to deal with us is to ignore us altogether,
as they
did last Thursday. Our calls and letters had no effect whatever.

But those were the acts of citizens. In an Empire, there are no
citizens,
only subjects.

Empires in the past found it expedient to jail, torture, and execute
recalcitrant subjects. This one has learned that you can get a lot
further
with less trouble simply by pretending that the opposition doesn’t
exist.

These arrogant bastards are so persuaded of their sublime duties to
God and
Exxon that they no longer need concern themselves with public outrage
or
even, I shudder to say, elections.

Let us prove them wrong. We must make ourselves painfully visible to
them.

———————??????????————>>—!!!—->>>

OME TOGETHER WHEREVER, OCTOBER 26, 11:00 AM.

What is to be done?

Well, for a start, I recommend that wherever you are in the world,
you
should pick an arbitrary public location in your area, call or e-mail
everyone you know who feels as you do about this madness, and ask
them to
meet there at 11:00 am on Saturday, October 26.

Ask them also to call or e-mail everyone *they* know with the same
message.
Thanks to what my friend Howard Rheingold calls “smart mobs,” a lot
of
people can gather very quickly this way. The microwave threads
between cell
phones can be like formic acid for ants. Make an instant electronic
hive of
humanity.

Be very peaceable and difficult to provoke, but don’t worry about
getting a
permit. If no one’s in charge, there’s no one to hold accountable.

In Washington, DC and San Francisco, those locations have already
been
chosen. They are:

In DC –

Constitution Gardens adjacent to the
Vietnam Veterans War Memorial
21st St. & Constitution Ave. NW

In San Francisco –

Justin Herman Plaza
Market and Embarcadero

Unfortunately, there is a problem. And, as someone who went through
this in
the 60’s, it’s one I’m very familiar with.

The organization that nominated these two locations, International
A.N.S.W.E.R.

(Act Now to Stop War & End Racism), is an honest-to-god Communist
front.
I’m not kidding. It is to the left of Mao. It is also virulently
anti-semitic, and appears to be saddling up the wild horse of war
opposition to pursue a lot of causes most you probably don’t support,
like
Shining Path in Peru.

It is so radical that I almost wonder if it isn’t a set of agents
provocateurs created by the Empire to discredit the whole peace
movement.

I also know that, after the poem I asked you all to read aloud, many
of you
concluded that I was also of this general political slant. But I am
not a
leftist propagandist. Hell, I was still a Republican until George II
forced
me to declare myself the obvious, an Independent.

I didn’t write that poem. Had I done so, it certainly would have
included
an aeon of silence for the 50 million killed by Communism under
Stalin and
Mao, a millennium of silence for the many millions of Jews
slaughtered by
everyone from Goliath and his Philistines to Hezbolleh. I would have
mentioned the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the Hutus and
the
Tutsis. The poem was clearly leftist propaganda. Still, I felt it
made a
start on it. We could mourn the remaining blanks ourselves.

I got a lot of angry mail back regarding precisely these kinds of
omissions
and the rote socialism of its rhetoric.

I am very concerned that people will not engage in these gatherings,
or
that they will be easily misinterpreted, once they perceive these
same
qualities in A.N.S.W.E.R.

But I say it doesn’t matter who names the gathering point. Wherever
we
normally reside in the political spectrum, this is not about the left
wing
or the right wing. It’s about how to stop these wing-nuts from
turning the
world into a military playground for the Fortune 500. It’s not about
ideology. It’s about human decency and common sense. The important
thing is
that we all get together in such numbers that the ideologues of
A.N.S.W.E.R. will be but a small part of something so big that
neither the
media nor the Empire can ignore us.

I also recommend against speeches, though I suspect they are
unavoidable in
Washington and San Francisco. The less said the better. What do we
need to
say? We know how we feel. We don’t need to be told.

So, even though I have grave misgivings about the organizers of the
gatherings in DC and San Francisco, we can come together in such
overwhelming diversity that there can be no party line aside from a
love of
peace, liberty, and the right of all nations to determine their
destinies
without American imposition.

The second thing I recommend we all do is vote. I know many of you
gave up
on this a long time ago, for which dereliction of citizen’s duty you
are
getting exactly the government you deserve. But there’s still time.
Many
states permit registration right down to the wire.

I particularly hope you will vote heavily against everyone who
supported
this treasonous resolution, no matter how enlightened they appeared
before.
Right now, a weakling with good intentions is worse than an outright
Facist.

They didn’t listen to your phone calls or letters. Let them now hear
your
silent voice speaking from the voting booth.

You should also organize on behalf of everyone who had the courage to
resist it. Give money and time to their campaigns. Write letters to
their
local newspapers, expressing your support for them and praising them
for
their courage on behalf of the Constitution.

Right now, I agree absolutely with George Bush on one thing. One is
either
with him or against him. I am against him. As Jefferson, Madison,
Monroe,
and Lincoln would have been.

And if that makes me a terrorist, I am proud to be one.

Be Free,

Barlow


*************************************************************
John Perry Barlow, Cognitive Dissident
Co-Founder & Vice Chairman, Electronic Frontier Foundation
Berkman Fellow, Harvard Law School

Home(stead) Page: http://www.eff.org/~barlow

Call me anywhere, anytime: 800/654-4322

Fax me anywhere, anytime:  603/215-1529

Current Cell Phone: 917/863-2037 (AT&T)

Alternative (Inactive) Cell Phone: 646/286-8176 (GSM)

**************************************************************

Barlow in Meatspace Now: Salt Lake City (Until 10/17) 801/582-5035

(Provisional) Trajectory from Here: Steamboat Springs, CO (10/17-19)
-> Salt Lake City (10/19-20) -> Eugene, OR (10/21-22)
-> Down the West Coast (10/22-24) -> San Francisco (10/24-28)
-> LA (10/28-31) -> Las Vegas (11/1-2) -> Salt Lake City (11/3)
-> New York City (11/4-5) -> London (11/6-9) -> Pinehurst, NC
(11/9-12)
-> New York City…

**************************************************************

The resolution before us today is not only a product of haste; it is
also a
product of presidential hubris.  This resolution is breathtaking in
its
scope.  It redefines the nature of defense, and reinterprets the
Constitution
to suit the will of the Executive Branch. It would give the President
blanket
authority to launch a unilateral preemptive attack on a sovereign
nation
that
is perceived to be a threat to the United States.  This is an
unprecedented
and unfounded interpretation of the President’s authority under the
Constitution,  not to mention the fact that it stands the charter of
the
United Nations on its head.

— Senator Robert Byrd to the Senate, October 3, 2002

“Let us lift our vision high
enough to dominate the problem.”
– – Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
**********************************

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] US: Drug Tests Of Pregnant Women Ruled Illegal Search
Date: October 18, 2002 at 10:48:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

US: Drug Tests Of Pregnant Women Ruled Illegal Search

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n502/a11.html
Newshawk: DrugSense http://www.drugsense.org/
Pubdate: Thu, 22 Mar 2001
Source: Newsday (NY)
Copyright: 2001 Newsday Inc.
Contact: letters@newsday.com
Address: 235 Pinelawn Rd., Melville NY 11747
Fax: (516)843-2986
Website: http://www.newsday.com/homepage.htm
Forum: http://www.newsday.com/forums/forums.htm
Author: Gaylord Shaw; Washington Bureau

DRUG TESTS OF PREGNANT WOMEN RULED ILLEGAL SEARCH

Supreme Court: Results given to police violate Fourth
Amendment

Washington-Reinforcing the Constitution’s ban on
unreasonable searches, the Supreme Court ruled
yesterday that a South Carolina public hospital
violated the rights of pregnant women when it gave
police their drug test results without their explicit
permission.

The justices ruled 6-3 that while the intent of the
testing program was laudable-to prevent women from
harming their fetuses by using crack cocaine -it ran
afoul of the Fourth Amendment’s requirement that
consent or court-issued search warrants are necessary
before test information is shared with law enforcement
authorities.  Some of the women who tested positive
were arrested if they refused to enter a drug
treatment program.  At least one woman was arrested in
her hospital bed after giving birth.

“It’s a very, very important decision in protecting
the right to privacy of all Americans,” said Priscilla
Smith, a lawyer for the Center for Reproductive Law
and Policy, a nonprofit group that represented the 10
women who brought the suit, seeking monetary damages
from the hospital.  “It reaffirms that pregnant women
have that same right to a confidential relationship
with their doctors.”

“The court put public health ahead of drug
enforcement,” added Kevin Zeese, president of Common
Sense for Drug Policy, a nonprofit advocacy group, who
contended the Charleston program deterred poor
pregnant women from going to the clinic.

In the court’s majority opinion, Justice John Paul
Stevens wrote that while the hospital’s goal may have
been to get women into drug treatment programs and to
protect their fetuses, “the immediate objective of the
searches was to generate evidence for law enforcement
purposes …”

When hospitals gather evidence “for the specific
purpose of incriminating those patients, they have a
special obligation to make sure that the patients are
fully informed about their constitutional rights,”
Stevens said.

The justices sent the case back to a lower court to
determine whether the women, in signing the hospital’s
consent forms, had understood that the results of the
drug tests might be given to the police.

South Carolina Attorney General Charles Condon, who as
a local prosecutor in Charleston began the testing
program, said, “There is no right of a mother to
jeopardize the health and safety of an unborn child
through her own drug abuse.”

Condon developed the policy in 1989 with officials at
the Medical University of South Carolina, a Charleston
hospital that treats indigent patients.  The women who
tested positive for drugs after submitting urine
samples were subject to arrest under the state’s
child-endangerment law.

Stevens’ opinion was joined by Justices Sandra Day
O’Connor, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and
Stephen Breyer.  Justice Anthony Kennedy filed a
separate opinion also concluding such tests are
unlawful.

Dissenting were Chief Justice William Rehnquist and
Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.  Writing
for the three, Scalia said doctors are supposed to
have patients’ welfare in mind, and “that they have in
mind in addition the provision of evidence to the
police should make no difference.”

In previous cases, the high court has permitted drug
testing without a warrant or suspicion of individual
wrongdoing when the government can demonstrate a
“special need”-such as preventing drug use by public
high school students or by railroad workers.  But drug
test results in those cases weren’t given to police.

“The invasion of privacy in this case is far more
substantial than in those cases,” Stevens wrote,
noting that patients normally expect medical test
results to be kept private.

In other opinions yesterday, the court:

Ruled 5-4 that employers can force workers to take
job-related disputes to arbitration rather than to
court.  The court’s conservative majority held that
employers can use a 1925 federal law to enforce the
arbitration agreements many workers sign when they
take jobs.  The case involved a gay former electronics
salesman in California who sued his employer, Circuit
City Stores, charging harassment.  While workers can
still challenge arbitration agreements, the ruling
strengthens employers’ hands while giving employees
fewer options to contend they were treated unfairly.

Ruled 7-2 that state laws generally cannot divert a
deceased person’s employee benefits to someone other
than the designated beneficiary.  In overturning a
Washington state law, the court ruled in favor of an
ex-wife of a man who died without removing her as the
beneficiary of his employer-provided insurance and
pension.  His children from a previous marriage sued,
saying they were entitled to the benefits.  But the
opinion said a federal law, the Employee Retirement
Income Security Act, pre-empts state law.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] entheogenic research into chemical dependency
Date: October 18, 2002 at 6:05:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Im sure a lot of you have seen these articles in the latest on-line
version of the maps magazine, but for those that havent, they make
for interesting reading :

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12220kru.html

the above is an update of the maps sponsered research into the use
of ketamine to treat chemical dependency.

and below is an article on the use of ayauascha in the treatment of

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12225mab.html

paul

_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections — switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ayauascha as a treatment for chemical dependency
Date: October 17, 2002 at 10:32:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Unlimited Internet access — and 2 months free!  Try MSN. Click Here

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] wtf is this?
Date: October 17, 2002 at 6:32:42 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m not sure I want to know but I have to ask, what is this? Who is Victor Nappe?

http://www.mindvox.com/VictorNappe.rm

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] more ibogaine blogs
Date: October 17, 2002 at 6:20:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm. I’ve noted down that I have now officially added two expressions
to my vocabulary thanks to this list Patrick, ‘treatment pimps’ and
‘getting unsprung’. Thanks for that 🙂

That libertarian guy who posted your ibogaine letter that Dana sent out
everywhere, just did it with a second one. He’s starting an ibogaine
collection of your writings in his political section:

Political

Authorization of the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq by
Robert Byrd
Congress Must Resist the Rush to War by Robert Byrd
Addiction is a hole in your soul by Patrick K. Kroupa
Ibogaine Works by Patrick K. Kroupa
The War Inevitable by Patrick Henry
Tax Cuts Explained by Bernie Baltic
A Declaration of Civil Disobedience by lendringser

http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine2.html

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 18-MC – whats going on ?
Date: October 17, 2002 at 2:51:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In order for 18-mc to enter clinical trials in humans Glick needs to have some backer who is giving him funding. Which is the same thing Mash needs with noribogaine. Between the two of them she’s the one who is probably more likely to obtain it and for all we know is already testing noribogaine with humans. Patrick and John Pablo would have the answers to that one and I’m sure neither will give a answer. Not only because they don’t want to, but I’m sure talking about it would get them sued and fired. Were I to guess what will happen by reading what monographs have been published to date, which is to say nearly none. Mash will take as much of the St. Kitts data as she can and focus all of it on noribogaine. Having a patent on nor and nothing to gain financially by ibogaine itself, I’d be surprised to see it play out in any other way. If I had the patent this is exactly the same thing I’d do. Detoxing 400, 500 I don’t know the number by now, patients should result in a mountain
of data. But there is nearly nothing being published.

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:59:13 -0700 paul jackamo <pauljackamo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone know if 18-MC is/will be undergoing clinical trials in
humans in
the near future – i just want to hear a report about how it so radically
differs from ibogaine itself – im sure i read Dr. Mash say this was
a
“non-halluciongenic” compound – how do they know – did they ask the
crack
rats if they were tripping ?

thanks

paul.

. Like most
Americans, however, he is probably not aware that a major breakthrough
in
the treatment of drug dependency has occured at Albany Medical College,
where Dr. Stanley Glick has patented a safer form of  Ibogaine called
18-MC.

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] your rights
Date: October 17, 2002 at 1:52:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

INFORMATION   WORLD-ACTION    INSPIRATION

CHEMTRAIL EVIDENCE 
’THE CAMPAIGN AGAINST CHEMTRAILS’
PRINT OUT a few of these one to four page articles, and give them to 
people who really should know about Chemtrails (that’s everyone)…. and 
then they will not have an excuse for not knowing about something 
which is killing the people, animals & vegetation around them.
E-MAIL: COPY 3 or 4 reports into an e-mail and send it to groups you 
are in and ask them to forward these convincing reports EVERYWHERE.
OR : – 
GO HERE TO COPY CHEMTRAIL CAMPAIGN E-MAIL ONE: 
http://www.world-action.co.uk/campaign1.html 
GO HERE TO COPY CHEMTRAIL CAMPAIGN E-MAIL TWO: 
http://www.world-action.co.uk/campaign2.html 
GO HERE TO COPY CHEMTRAIL CAMPAIGN E-MAIL THREE: 
http://www.world-action.co.uk/campaign3.html 
GO HERE TO COPY CHEMTRAIL CAMPAIGN E-MAIL FOUR: 
http://www.world-action.co.uk/campaign4.html 
GO HERE TO COPY CHEMTRAIL CAMPAIGN E-MAIL FIVE: 
http://www.world-action.co.uk/campaign5.html
Distribute to everyone you know…. and LOCAL government and 
LOCAL media….. ask them what THEY think is causing all the illness. 
If they seem allergic to the word CHEMTRAILS, suggest they start 
researching the ingredients of JET FUEL. Jet Fuel itself is bad enough.
CHEMTRAIL EVIDENCE:
LINKS to DOWNLOAD M/S WORD DOC FILES 
are at the bottom of each of these reports. 
PRINT THEM OUT and give them to 
anyone who can start doing something. 
Try LOCAL government and LOCAL media. 
Just TRY.  Our efforts will add up.
1999 NOV – CHEMTRAILS SICKEN MANY
1999 MAY – CHEMTRAILS IN SWEDEN
————————————-
2000 MAY – CHEMTRAILS IN ENGLAND
2000 JUNE – CROATIA CHEM FRENZY
2000 JULY – CLARIFYING CHEMTRAILS
2000 JULY – CHEMTRAILS AND MEDIA
2000 JULY – BYRON BAY – AUSTRALIA
2000 AUG – BYRON BAY – AUSTRALIA
2000 AUG – CHEMTRAILS – JP8 & EDB
2000 SEPT – DISEASE & CHEMTRAILS
————————————-
2001 FEB – CHEMTRAIL LINES IN THE SKY
2001 OCT – ‘CHEMTRAILS’ IN U.S. BILL
————————————-
2002 MAR – WILLIAM THOMAS – CANADA
2002 MAR – SKIN RASH & CHEMTRAILS
2002 APRIL – VANCOUVER – CANADA
2002 APRIL – CHEMTRAIL “SIMULANTS”
2002 JULY – USA CHEMTRAIL ARTICLE
2002 – CHEMTRAILS AERIAL SPRAYING
MORE CHEMTRAIL ARTICLES TO FOLLOW
LINKS to DOWNLOAD M/S WORD DOC FILES 
are at the bottom of each of the above reports. 
PRINT THEM OUT and give them to anyone 
who can start doing something. 
Try LOCAL government and LOCAL media. 
Ask them why they think people are getting sick. 
They must have noticed and thought about it. 
Just TRY!  Our efforts will add up.
JEFF RENSE COM – CHEMTRAIL DATA PAGE
It’s time to get tough.
We have the convincing information and 
it is therefore up to US to get it to people.

INFORMATION   WORLD-ACTION    INSPIRATION

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] opiate + trexan = buprenex — no originality here!
Date: October 16, 2002 at 9:37:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Tue, 15 Oct 2002
Source: New York Times (NY)
Copyright: 2002 The New York Times Company
Contact: letters@nytimes.com
Author: John O’Neil

THERAPIES: FOR ADDICTION, A CHANGE OF VENUE

A new drug and changes in federal regulations should help move
treatment of heroin addiction out of
methadone centers and into doctors’ offices, the author of an article
being published today in The
Annals of Internal Medicine says.

Fewer than a quarter of the nation’s estimated 800,000 heroin addicts
are believed to receive treatment,
according to the article by Dr.  David A.  Fiellin of the Yale School
of Medicine.  Many treatment
centers have long waiting lists, and many addicts, especially those
still with jobs and families, wish to
avoid the stigma associated with drug treatment centers, Dr.  Fiellin
said in an interview.

Five years ago, a federal panel concluded that treatment with an
opioid agonist – a drug like
methadone that undercuts the euphoric effort without bringing on
withdrawal symptoms – could be
effective when combined with counseling.  Since then, efforts have
been made to make such care more
accessible, Dr.  Fiellin said.

He said the biggest step was the approval last week by the Food and
Drug Administration of a new
partial agonist, buprenorphine, which studies have shown to be almost
as effective in preventing
relapse as methadone.

Buprenorphine has some clear advantages, Dr.  Fiellin said.  It is
less mood-altering, and when
combined with an opioid blocker it is harder to abuse.  That has let
it qualify for a less restrictive
category of controlled substances, he said, opening it to office use
by trained physicians.  “Our
expectation is that it will increase access to treatment for a large
population of patients,” he added.

Other changes in federal regulations are beginning to make it
possible for physicians working in
partnership with drug programs to treat stable methadone patients in
regular medical offices.

Dr.  Fiellin said studies had shown that office treatment was as
effective as methadone clinics for stable
patients and was more satisfying.  They “felt that they were finally
being recognized for their stability,
by being able to receive their treatment in a more medical setting,” he said.

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 18-MC – whats going on ?
Date: October 16, 2002 at 5:59:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know if 18-MC is/will be undergoing clinical trials in humans in the near future – i just want to hear a report about how it so radically differs from ibogaine itself – im sure i read Dr. Mash say this was a “non-halluciongenic” compound – how do they know – did they ask the crack rats if they were tripping ?

thanks

paul.

. Like most
Americans, however, he is probably not aware that a major breakthrough in the treatment of drug dependency has occured at Albany Medical College, where Dr. Stanley Glick has patented a safer form of  Ibogaine called 18-MC.

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 16, 2002 at 4:58:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (Oct. 16) –  The Dutch government collapsed on
Wednesday over a ministerial feud between followers of murdered populist Pim
Fortuyn, paving the way for elections that could relegate his chaotic party
to obscurity.

The coalition of Christian Democrats (CDA), VVD Liberals and the Pim Fortuyn
List (LPF) crumbled after less than 100 days in office, the shortest-lived
Dutch government since World War Two.

The collapse sparked fears a lame-duck caretaker cabinet would be forced to
delay backing for the European Union’s eastward enlargement at a key Brussels
summit next week until a new government is installed in The Hague after fresh
elections.

But a Dutch government spokesman indicated the road to EU expansion would be
unaffected once a caretaker government had secured parliamentary backing for
the cabinet position.

A minority government could also be formed to stave off further instability.

The government’s demise was precipitated by the resignation earlier on
Wednesday of LPF Deputy Prime Minister Eduard Bomhoff and Economics Minister
Herman Heinsbroek, whose bitter differences have characterized their divided
party.

”There is no basis for further fruitful and sustainable cooperation within
the coalition,” CDA Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende told parliament
before tendering the cabinet’s resignation to Queen Beatrix.

The LPF and VVD each had four ministers in the 14-seat cabinet formed in July.

Polls show the party of shaven-headed gay maverick Fortuyn — who was gunned
down only days before May elections — has hemorrhaged support since it swept
into parliament and could face a drubbing in early elections expected within
three months.

A new opinion poll on Wednesday showed the LPF could slump from 26 seats to
four in a new election, with the VVD the biggest beneficiary as it climbed to
31 seats from its current 24. The CDA was seen adding six seats to its
current 43.

That would give the CDA and VVD a comfortable parliamentary majority between
them, with 80 of the lower house’s 150 seats.

”I think voters have begun to regret the votes they cast (for the LPF),”
said VVD leader Gerrit Zalm. ”This shows how hard it is to work with a party
that is constantly quarreling.”

FUNERAL PYRE

Political experts said the coalition — which pledged to crack down on crime
and immigration and improve public services when it took office in July —
failed to overcome its internal difficulties to fulfill its ambitious
promises.

”Nothing got off the ground. I have the feeling I don’t know my own country
any more,” said Henk Kummeling, a law professor at Utrecht University.

The LPF has struggled to fill the vacuum left after Fortuyn was shot dead
outside a radio station near Amsterdam. His death prompted a string of power
struggles and confusion over party leadership.

”The LPF is brilliant at carrying wood to its own funeral pyre and sometimes
even provides the matches,” LPF leader Mat Herben told parliament in The
Hague after a dramatic day in the Dutch political capital.

A bitter personal feud between LPF ministers Bomhoff and Heinsbroek had been
simmering for weeks.

Heinsbroek, a swashbuckling entrepreneur with designer stubble, had been at
loggerheads with the more conservative Bomhoff over the direction and
leadership of the LPF since the two joined Balkenende’s cabinet in July.

”There was an incompatibility of personalities between me and Bomhoff,”
Heinsbroek told a news conference, saying he had resigned ”with pain in my
heart.”

”To my great regret, the developments of the last few days have increasingly
created a situation in which it is impossible to work,” Bomhoff for his part
told reporters in The Hague.

The conflict-riven party returned Mat Herben as its leader on Wednesday —
just before the cabinet decisively fell — only months after he was forced to
step aside to make way for a former motoring magazine editor, Harry
Wijnschenk.

Herben had taken over the reins of the LPF after Fortuyn’s death and had
guided the party into coalition.

EU ENLARGEMENT

These are turbulent times for traditionally tranquil Dutch politics. The last
government resigned en masse in April in delayed atonement for the
Netherlands’ role in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia.

The coalition had also struggled to overcome a deep rift over whether to
support proposals for 10 countries to join the European Union in 2004.

The EU executive said last week that former communist east European states
such as Poland and Hungary were ready to wrap up accession talks in December
and join in 2004.

The foreign ministry spokesman said the Netherlands would make its position
clear at next week’s Brussels summit after the current government — or a
caretaker administration — had secured majority approval in parliament on
its position.

Publicly, EU leaders voiced confidence that the Netherlands would not block
enlargement.

Reut14:22 10-16-02

Copyright 2002 Reuters Limited.  All rights reserved.  Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is
expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.  Reuters
shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any
actions taken in reliance thereon.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Golisano Letter
Date: October 16, 2002 at 3:12:13 PM EDT
To: kennedysg@aol.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Charles Halloran
Golisano for Governor
1 Fishers Road
Pittsford, N.Y. 14534

Sir:

Regarding the matter I mentioned in our brief phone conversation of
last Sunday, I note that Tom Golisano is also a proponent of
treatment instead of incarceration for drug addicts. Like most
Americans, however, he is probably not aware that a major
breakthrough in the treatment of drug dependency has occured at
Albany Medical College, where Dr. Stanley Glick has patented a safer
form of  Ibogaine called 18-MC.

This rainforest alkaloid has been reported to act as an addiction
interrupter across a wide spectrum of abused substances, legal and
illegal, in more more than 200 peer-reviewed scientific papers. A
unique effect is the simultaneous loss of multiple addictions–for
example opiates, meth-amphetamine, crack, alcohol and
cigarettes–after as little as a single treatment.

Ibogaine is the first pharmacotherapy where, when the treatment wears
off, addicts are free of both physical withdrawal and psychological
craving. And where opioid maintenance (methadone) or blockers
(naltrexone) fail to address the underlying dopaminergic disorder
(craving), re-treatment with Ibogaine (should uncontrollable cravings
re-cur, or in the event or relapse) is safe and easy.
.
With Ibogaine, the acute phase that requires bed-rest takes just two
days. Even with a period to keep them under observation in case you
have to administer another, smaller dose after 4 to 6 days for
residual cravings, folks can be back at work in just under two weeks.
In short, the only reason there’s currently a shortage of treatment
beds for addicts is that we’re not using the latest technology to cut
the length of inpatient treatment.

We feel that Tom’s courageous stands regarding medical marijuana and
the Rockefeller drug laws deserve support. Both because he is a
proponent of treatment, and to immunize the campaign against the
inevitable counter-charges that these positions somehow foster drugs
and addiction, we think a campaign appearance at Stan Glick’s lab in
Albany would be a logical extension of his commitment to bring new
solutions–not to mention the jobs and millions of dollars of
development money involved–to the people of New York.

Yours Truly,

Dana Beal/co-Founder, CURES not WARS

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Asa’s Magic Number Game…3rd and final attempt…with document attached.
Date: October 16, 2002 at 2:50:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

approved, neurochemistry dysregulato
r, it is very likely that you will
end up behind bars.  At the same time, the government continues to
peddle Alcohol to the masses, which kills more people than all drugs
combined.

Mr. Hutchinson may well have demolished the straw man he set up, but he
cannot avoid the documented evidence which clearly indicates that U.S.
prisons are “filled” with people convicted of drug related offenses, and
that those convicted for “simple possession” account for 32% or greater
of all drug related incarcerations. The message is loud and clear…if
you use or possess illegal drugs, you are looked at in almost the same
manner as a “Kingpin,” that is involved in running an ongoing criminal
organReceived: from hnncsb-MTA by mail.hnncsb.ization comprised of 5 or more people.

In his opening arguments, Mr. Hutchinson stated that he is fighting to
“uphold the…principles of liberty and freedom” in a post 9/11 world.
Perhaps it is due, in part, to these sorts of ideas on the concepts of
liberty and freedom that the United States currently incarcerates more
people than Communist China…that well known bulwark of Democracy.

If you missed that, think about that sentence again…THE UNITED STATES
INCARCERATES MORE PEOPLE THAN COMMUNIST CHINA…or any other nation on the
earth.

I am more afraid of those who would take away our freedoms than I am of
terrorists who would take my life.
I am more afraid of those who would protect me from myself than I am of
an addict on the street corner.
I am more afraid that I will awake one morning to find the Mother of
Liberty bowed low upon the water, not by an act of terrorism, but out of
grief due to the death of freedom.

Mr. Hutchinson, “Let my people go.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] struck off the medical register UK
Date: October 16, 2002 at 2:37:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was asked for forward this to any lists that may have interest.  Original
message follows.

Howard
***************

Hi, Alan,XXXX,everyone,
Could you please post this onto all list/s you
think appropiate, many thanks XXX.

Conference

Sunday 27 October 2002

at University of London Union
Malet Street, London WC1

As someone interested in the treatment of drug abuse you will find this
conference of major importance.

Last week another doctor was struck off the medical register for daring to
treat drug addicts.

Nearly half the cases coming up at the GMC relate to doctors trying to help
drug addicts, particularly those that cannot cope with treatment from NHS
clinics.

The Home Office, GMC and Consultants favoured by the establishment are
behind this. The effect is that people established on treatment are finding
themselves being abandoned without treatment and rather than suffer in
hospital clinics are finding themselves being pushed down the line back on
to street drugs.

Drug Dealers and  the financial institutions that launder drugs money are
the only people to benefit.

Field Fisher Waterhouse, the GMC solicitors, have set up a formidable
machinery to investigate and destroy doctors.

Why is the GMC doing this?
Who is behind this witch-hunt?
Is this inquisition lawful?
Dirty tricks??

Speakers will include Dr John Marks, Dr Ann Dally, Professor Emeritus
Arnold
Trebach and Dr James Caveney Sharp. (Unfortunately we have not so far found
a politician who is able to speak).

If you are concerned and want to attend please reply to:
jcs@worldhealth-ol.com

or see attachments for further details

ALSO

Conference

Sunday 27 October 2002

at University of London Union
Malet Street, London WC1

As someone interested in the treatment of drug abuse you will find this
conference of major importance.

Last week another doctor was struck off the medical register for daring to
treat drug addicts.

Nearly half the cases coming up at the GMC relate to doctors trying to help
drug addicts, particularly those that cannot cope with treatment from NHS
clinics.

The Home Office, GMC and Consultants favoured by the establishment are
behind this. The effect is that people established on treatment are finding
themselves being abandoned without treatment and rather than suffer in
hospital clinics are finding themselves being pushed down the line back on
to street drugs.

Drug Dealers and  the financial institutions that launder drugs money are
the only people to benefit.

Field Fisher Waterhouse, the GMC solicitors, have set up a formidable
machinery to investigate and destroy doctors.

Why is the GMC doing this?
Who is behind this witch-hunt?
Is this inquisition lawful?
Dirty tricks??

Speakers will include Dr John Marks, Dr Ann Dally, Professor Emeritus
Arnold
Trebach and Dr James Caveney Sharp. (Unfortunately we have not so far found
a politician who is able to speak).

If you are concerned and want to attend please reply to:
jcs@worldhealth-ol.com

or see attachments for further details

ALSO

Please forward this email to anyone you may think would be interested in
coming along.

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] It’s a plot
Date: October 16, 2002 at 2:36:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pertaining to “Asa’s Magic Numbers,” which, on arrival back to my box,
had the first half lopped off and started in mid paragraph.  It arrived
at my personal e-mail account in the same fashion.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com 10/16/02 02:27PM >>>
—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] It’s a plot

I have attempted 3x to send to the ibogaine list, and my message ends
up
chopped up. 1st attempt was chopped. 2nd attempt disappeared into
the
void.  3rd attempt was chopped. It appears that all things are
working
fine on this end.  Anyone else experiencing difficulties?

What does chopped up mean? Your messages don’t look chopped up to me.
They
will disappear into the void sometimes, tho, but mine always seem to
return
from it, after a while therein. I’m still wondering if Judith and
friends
saw me telling them over and over and over again how to unsubscribe.
Same
words, post after post after post. It was fascinating to me how they
never
saw it. Let us pray they finally did.

Chris

—————————-

“My dear friend, what is this our life? A boat that swims in the sea,
and
all one knows for certain about it is that one day it will capsize.
Here we
are, two good old boats that have been faithful neighbors, and above
all
your hand has done its best to keep me from  ‘capsizing’! Let us then
continue our voyage-each for the other’s sake, for a long time yet, a
long
time! We should miss each other so much! Tolerably calm seas and good
winds
and above all sun-what I wish for myself, I wish for you, too, and am
sorry
that my gratitude can find expression only in such a wish and has no
influence at all on wind or weather.”

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] It’s a plot
Date: October 16, 2002 at 2:27:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] It’s a plot

I have attempted 3x to send to the ibogaine list, and my message ends up
chopped up. 1st attempt was chopped. 2nd attempt disappeared into the
void.  3rd attempt was chopped. It appears that all things are working
fine on this end.  Anyone else experiencing difficulties?

What does chopped up mean? Your messages don’t look chopped up to me. They
will disappear into the void sometimes, tho, but mine always seem to return
from it, after a while therein. I’m still wondering if Judith and friends
saw me telling them over and over and over again how to unsubscribe. Same
words, post after post after post. It was fascinating to me how they never
saw it. Let us pray they finally did.

Chris

—————————-

“My dear friend, what is this our life? A boat that swims in the sea, and
all one knows for certain about it is that one day it will capsize. Here we
are, two good old boats that have been faithful neighbors, and above all
your hand has done its best to keep me from  ‘capsizing’! Let us then
continue our voyage-each for the other’s sake, for a long time yet, a long
time! We should miss each other so much! Tolerably calm seas and good winds
and above all sun-what I wish for myself, I wish for you, too, and am sorry
that my gratitude can find expression only in such a wish and has no
influence at all on wind or weather.”

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] It’s a plot
Date: October 16, 2002 at 1:52:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have attempted 3x to send to the ibogaine list, and my message ends up
chopped up. 1st attempt was chopped. 2nd attempt disappeared into the
void.  3rd attempt was chopped. It appears that all things are working
fine on this end.  Anyone else experiencing difficulties?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Asa’s Magic Number Game…attempt #3
Date: October 16, 2002 at 1:47:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

approved, neurochemistry dysregulato
r, it is very likely that you will
end up behind bars.  At the same time, the government continues to
peddle Alcohol to the masses, which kills more people than all drugs
combined.

Mr. Hutchinson may well have demolished the straw man he set up, but he
cannot avoid the documented evidence which clearly indicates that U.S.
prisons are “filled” with people convicted of drug-related offenses, and
that those convicted for “simple possession” account for 32% or greater
of all drug-related incarcerations. The message is loud and clear…if
you use or possess illegal drugs, you are looked at in almost the same
manner as a “Kingpin,” that is involved in running an ongoing criminal
organization comprised of 5 or more people.
Received: from hnncsb-MTA by mail.hnncsb.
In his opening arguments, Mr. Hutchinson stated that he is fighting to
“uphold the…principles of liberty and freedom” in a post-9/11 world.
Perhaps it is due, in part, to these sorts of ideas on the concepts of
liberty and freedom that the United States currently incarcerates more
people than Communist China…that well-known bulwark of Democracy.

If you missed that, think about that sentence again…THE UNITED STATES
INCARCERATES MORE PEOPLE THAN COMMUNIST CHINA…or any other nation on the
earth.

I am more afraid of those who would take away our freedoms than I am of
terrorists who would take my life.
I am more afraid of those who would protect me from myself than I am of
an addict on the street corner.
I am more afraid that I will awake one morning to find the Mother of
Liberty bowed low upon the water, not by an act of terrorism, but out of
grief due to the death of freedom.

Mr. Hutchinson, “Let my people go.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 16, 2002 at 1:14:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry but Brett said this better than I could have. I was making a joke
I did not mean to offend any women reading this list and I will be more
PC or thoughtful in the future. I replied with a apology because Jane
explained it in a reasonable way that made me think and go maybe she’s
right and I don’t need to do that.

Your messages as Preston said on drugwar usually add about as much to
the conversation as farts, you make pithy announcements from on up high
about how everyone should act and contribute nothing of interest to any
of the forums you are on that I also read. Those being this list and
Drugwar.

Unsubscribing from the list is a hidden IQ test. If you can’t read the
headers or the 20 posts that people have made explaining how to do it
then you’ve failed.

This message isn’t written about or to women in general, it’s all for
Joatammo. And whatever the reply I won’t continue it outside of private
email since being even more mature I understand it doesn’t add anything
to the ibogaine list. Sorry but any list I’ve ever been on that has
high traffic always goes like this. It’s either a lot of people talking
sometime off topic, or it’s dead and there are 5 new messages a week if
that.

.:vector:.

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
There is a saying;  When you are pointing at someone
else the rest of your fingers are pointing back at
you… That is the very short version. No offense
intended at all but from my perspective your
statements are highly disturbing (disturbed?),
confrontational and abrasive. If you would like to
discuss it OFF-LINE in a more appropiate place I would
be more than happy to, maybe there is a different
perspective you could understand rather than a contest
of who is right, how right, what behavior someone else
should change (demanded) when maybe it is you who can
change how you see it, react to it and get the desired
result (I am however not sure what desired result you
are after…)

Brett
Thank you Howard, my exact sentiments.  We need to
stick to the subject at
hand, being the drug war and Ibogaine.  IMO, there
are many who are
troublemakers  and don’t stick to the agenda.  I
give the respect that I
receive, and expect that out of everyone.

Lets stick to the point, tell a joke now and
again, and above all stick
together in this drug war that has been put on us.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 16, 2002 at 1:17:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This works. So does making another pop account for only this list, so
does using any email filterering service which yahoo, hotmail, AOL,
dare I say nearly all webmail has, that let’s you put any list you are
reading into its own folder. End of problem.

Joatammo you unsubscribe by sending email to:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

Please use it.

.:vector:.

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
My suggestion for all of you who complain about how many posts this
list
gets is:  unsubscribe and then re-subscribe using a new email account
that
is solely for this list.  There are many free email accounts out
there.
Then you can read this list at your convenience without it filling up
your
personal account.

Randy

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:23:52 EDT

In a message dated 10/13/02 11:04:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU writes:

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME

Why is it nearly impossible to get unsubscribed?  The posts are
filling my
mailbox, and other important items cannot get through.  Please is
this
forever or don’t you listen.

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 16, 2002 at 10:58:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a saying;  When you are pointing at someone
else the rest of your fingers are pointing back at
you… That is the very short version. No offense
intended at all but from my perspective your
statements are highly disturbing (disturbed?),
confrontational and abrasive. If you would like to
discuss it OFF-LINE in a more appropiate place I would
be more than happy to, maybe there is a different
perspective you could understand rather than a contest
of who is right, how right, what behavior someone else
should change (demanded) when maybe it is you who can
change how you see it, react to it and get the desired
result (I am however not sure what desired result you
are after…)

Brett
Thank you Howard, my exact sentiments.  We need to
stick to the subject at
hand, being the drug war and Ibogaine.  IMO, there
are many who are
troublemakers  and don’t stick to the agenda.  I
give the respect that I
receive, and expect that out of everyone.

Lets stick to the point, tell a joke now and
again, and above all stick
together in this drug war that has been put on us.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 16, 2002 at 12:57:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 Joatammmo23@aol.com wrote:

Thank you Howard, my exact sentiments.  We need to stick to the subject at
hand, being the drug war and Ibogaine.  IMO, there are many who are
troublemakers  and don’t stick to the agenda.  I give the respect that I
receive, and expect that out of everyone.

Lets stick to the point, tell a joke now and again, and above all stick
together in this drug war that has been put on us.

Well said. I think its fairly apparent that one of the major obstacles in
defeating the drug war is all the squabbling and bickering amoung the
different reform factions. If we ever want to make a real difference, we
have to be working together..

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 15, 2002 at 10:44:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, vector vector, that was a nice diplomatic non-defensive
response.  Much appreciated! Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 15, 2002 at 10:13:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Did you try sending an email from the account you want
unsubscribed to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com?

That might do the trick.

Brett

— Joatammmo23@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 10/13/02 11:04:02 PM Central
Daylight Time,
ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU writes:

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME

Why is it nearly impossible to get unsubscribed?
The posts are filling my
mailbox, and other important items cannot get
through.  Please is this
forever or don’t you listen.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 15, 2002 at 9:30:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My suggestion for all of you who complain about how many posts this list gets is:  unsubscribe and then re-subscribe using a new email account that is solely for this list.  There are many free email accounts out there.  Then you can read this list at your convenience without it filling up your personal account.

Randy

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:23:52 EDT

In a message dated 10/13/02 11:04:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU writes:

> PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME

Why is it nearly impossible to get unsubscribed?  The posts are filling my
mailbox, and other important items cannot get through.  Please is this
forever or don’t you listen.

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME
Date: October 15, 2002 at 6:25:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME

In a message dated 10/13/02 7:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time, StyleCollective@aol.com writes:

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE STYLECOLLECTIVE@AOL.COM. ASAP. THANKS

As well, as myself

Send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com. You might get some
long and complicated message back which amounts to the server trying to
verify that your address is valid. If you do, just hit reply and send that
message back to. I’ve never unsubscribed so I’m not sure if you’ll get that
or not. So just send the blank email, and if anything comes, just hit reply
and send whatever it is back.

chris

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 15, 2002 at 6:23:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/13/02 11:04:02 PM Central Daylight Time, ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU writes:

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME

Why is it nearly impossible to get unsubscribed?  The posts are filling my mailbox, and other important items cannot get through.  Please is this forever or don’t you listen.

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME
Date: October 15, 2002 at 6:20:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/13/02 7:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time, StyleCollective@aol.com writes:

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE STYLECOLLECTIVE@AOL.COM. ASAP. THANKS

As well, as myself

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 15, 2002 at 6:16:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Howard, my exact sentiments.  We need to stick to the subject at hand, being the drug war and Ibogaine.  IMO, there are many who are troublemakers  and don’t stick to the agenda.  I give the respect that I receive, and expect that out of everyone.

Lets stick to the point, tell a joke now and again, and above all stick together in this drug war that has been put on us.

jo

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cyp2d6 repost 1 Dr. John Pablo
Date: October 15, 2002 at 5:49:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sure thing, dug up a source for ya, $155 a pop (US).

http://hometestmed.safeshopper.com/31/54.htm?998

It is not ON or OFF, there are 4 basic variations.

Some detailed info

http://www.kumc.edu/research/kumc_ri/cytochromep450cmh006.htm

Brett

— “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.”
<ethnogarden@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Regarding the testing of individuals for this
enzyme:

Are there any specific medical tests which will
positively confirm the presence of this?

—– Original Message —–
From: ascending@hushmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] cyp2d6 repost 1 Dr. John Pablo

On Tue, 21 May 2002 11:00:14 -0700 John Pablo
<jpp71@hotmail.com> wrote:
As we all are aware, Hep C when active is a virus
that attacks the
liver,
the filter/detoxifier of the body.  The main
enzymes that are responsible
for metabolizing a great percentage of the drugs
we ingest are located
in
this organ.  Hence, if your liver was damaged
from having been exposed
to
hepatitis C, then there is a good chance that the
normal level of
the enzyme
that is required (i.e. cytochrome P450-2D6) to
properly metabolize
a typical
oral dose of  ibogaine would not be present.
However, being tested
positive
for Hep C does not necessarily mean that your
liver has been effected
beyond
recovery.  In fact, one’s immune system could
concievably have succesfully
combated the virus without ever having had
symptoms, but of course
they
would still test positive for exposure.  So, to
say someone is positive
for
Hep C simply means that their immune system has
reacted to it and
they have
an antibody coded for the virus.  It does not
state whether the person’s
liver has been damaged by the exposure.  However,
the “fitness” of
their
liver needs to be determined because there is a
possibility that
it could
have been significantly effected.  I will depict
the potential for
potential
problem with a simple analogy: Direct treatment
of a Hep C positive
person
without further determination of their liver’s
health is like playing
russian roulette where you have anywhere from 1-3
bullet(s) in a
cylinder
that holds 6 statistically depending on the
overall population.
Hence there
is a distinct possibility that an OD on ibogaine
can occur and if
the person
has background respiratory or heart problems then
it lead to very
serious
consequences.  Also, lack of the ability to
metabolize ibogaine to
noribogaine may significantly deter the opiate
detoxifying as well
as
serotonergic component of the treatment…Oh
well, just a thought!

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:50:54 +0100

Can anyone clarify for everyone what exactly the
dangers are with
ibogaine
consumption by those with Hep C? People ask me
all the time and
I have
never
been very clear. I know treatment providers who
treat people with
Hep C,
and
I have done once with someone whose count was
under control and
low.
But does anyone have any serious safety
guidelines on this.

Thanks

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cyp2d6 repost 1 Dr. John Pablo
Date: October 15, 2002 at 4:39:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Regarding the testing of individuals for this enzyme:

Are there any specific medical tests which will positively confirm the presence of this?

—– Original Message —–
From: ascending@hushmail.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] cyp2d6 repost 1 Dr. John Pablo

On Tue, 21 May 2002 11:00:14 -0700 John Pablo <jpp71@hotmail.com> wrote:
>As we all are aware, Hep C when active is a virus that attacks the
>liver,
>the filter/detoxifier of the body.  The main enzymes that are responsible
>for metabolizing a great percentage of the drugs we ingest are located
>in
>this organ.  Hence, if your liver was damaged from having been exposed
>to
>hepatitis C, then there is a good chance that the normal level of
>the enzyme
>that is required (i.e. cytochrome P450-2D6) to properly metabolize
>a typical
>oral dose of  ibogaine would not be present.  However, being tested
>positive
>for Hep C does not necessarily mean that your liver has been effected
>beyond
>recovery.  In fact, one’s immune system could concievably have succesfully
>combated the virus without ever having had symptoms, but of course
>they
>would still test positive for exposure.  So, to say someone is positive
>for
>Hep C simply means that their immune system has reacted to it and
>they have
>an antibody coded for the virus.  It does not state whether the person’s
>liver has been damaged by the exposure.  However, the “fitness” of
>their
>liver needs to be determined because there is a possibility that
>it could
>have been significantly effected.  I will depict the potential for
>potential
>problem with a simple analogy: Direct treatment of a Hep C positive
>person
>without further determination of their liver’s health is like playing
>russian roulette where you have anywhere from 1-3 bullet(s) in a
>cylinder
>that holds 6 statistically depending on the overall population.
>Hence there
>is a distinct possibility that an OD on ibogaine can occur and if
>the person
>has background respiratory or heart problems then it lead to very
>serious
>consequences.  Also, lack of the ability to metabolize ibogaine to
>noribogaine may significantly deter the opiate detoxifying as well
>as
>serotonergic component of the treatment…Oh well, just a thought!

>>From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Subject: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
>>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:50:54 +0100
>>
>>Can anyone clarify for everyone what exactly the dangers are with
>ibogaine
>>consumption by those with Hep C? People ask me all the time and
>I have
>>never
>>been very clear. I know treatment providers who treat people with
>Hep C,
>>and
>>I have done once with someone whose count was under control and
>low.
>>But does anyone have any serious safety guidelines on this.
>>
>>Thanks
>>

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Asa Hutchinson’s Magic Number Game
Date: October 15, 2002 at 3:27:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

prisons are “filled” with people convicted of drug-related offenses, and
that th
ose convicted for “simple possession” account for 32% or greater
of all drug-related incarcerations.

In his opening arguments, Mr. Hutchinson stated that he is fighting to
“uphold the…principles of liberty and freedom” in a post-9/11 world.
Perhaps it is due, in part, to these sorts of ideas on the concepts of
liberty and freedom that the United States currently incarcerates more
people than Communist China…that well-known bulwark of Democracy.

If you missed that, think about that sentence again…THE UNITED STATES
INCARCERATES MORE PEOPLE THAN COMMUNIST CHINA…or any other nation on the
earth.

I am more afraid of those who would take away our freedoms than I aReceived: from hnncsb-MTA by mail.hnncsb.m of
terrorists who would take my life.
I am more afraid of those who would protect me from myself than I am of
an addict on the street corner.
I am more afraid that I will awake one morning to find the Mother of
Liberty bowed low upon the water, not by an act of terrorism, but out of
grief for the death of freedom.

Mr. Hutchinson, “Let my people go.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Campbell privacy case thrown out
Date: October 14, 2002 at 8:18:08 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “CRRH” <restore@crrh.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,7495,811789,00.html
Campbell privacy case thrown out

Claire Cozens and Dan Milmo
Monday October 14, 2002

Naomi Campbell was dealt a body blow today after the Daily Mirror succeeded
in its appeal against a high court ruling over reports about her drug
addiction, leaving her with a £750,000 bill in costs.
Three appeal court judges today upheld the Mirror’s challenge to a high
court ruling in favour of Naomi Campbell, saying it was in the public
interest that readers knew the truth about the model who had lied about her
drug use.
Delivering his judgment at the court of appeal today, Master of the Rolls
Lord Phillips said the newspaper’s February 2001 report about the model’s
drug addiction was justified.
He said the appeal raised the issue of how far the law provided protection
against the media publishing details of an individual’s private life.
Describing Ms Campbell as an internationally famous fashion model, Lord
Phillips said she courted rather than shunned publicity and had gone out of
her way to tell the media that in contrast to other models, she did not take
drugs, stimulants or tranquillisers.
“This was untrue; she had, in fact, become addicted to drugs,” he said.
snip-
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can’t bomb the world into peace.”
Michael Franti- Spearhead

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a complaint
Date: October 14, 2002 at 5:22:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

While you are at it, tell them that their steps compromise a persons principles.

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 14, 2002 at 2:54:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.apple.com/webobjects/

WebObjects is beautiful. But object oriented programming is a fetish that looks good in theory but doesn’t work that way in reality. This is where a lot of the bitching started. In theory reusable code and data encapsulation are major improvements over using perl, shellscripts, php, what have you.

In reality you end up with what Mindvox has, a project that has stretched a timeline from a few months, to a year and a half of development. Most sane people get to month #2 realize they can do the whole thing in a inelegant way using perl in about 2 weeks and throw it in the trash. This includes Apple who gave up on using their own technology and went with php for their message bases. Because its there, it works, its free, its finished in a few days.

The Mindvox crew were mentally ill enough to stick with it. They also have the first (mostly) working conferencing system running WO.

WO is nonstandard, I’ve worked with it before for airlines who use it. Three years ago WebObjects cost $120,000, last year it went to $58,000, 6 months ago they priced it at $700 because they want people to start using it and php is killing it because it’s good enough, free, has a big community working on it.

The session IDs from what I remember are instances of the Mindvox application layer. For WO to run I think Solaris has to load a Mach overlay at system boot because when it’s changing session IDs like that, it’s using lightweight processes and threading. Your actual id is an encapsulated instance of code, you’re an object moving through the Mindvox framework. It’s hard to explain and I don’t work with any of it that often, it’s very elegent but making it work is a biggg headache. Mindvox the app is launched however many times they decide is the limit which is load balanced across machines for cpu, disk, bandwidth, etc, but any number of objects move through each instance of the app. It doesn’t launch 100 copies of Mindvox when 100 people use it. There are probably 100 people at a time using 4 or 5 instances of the app. The messages, the html that it renders, are other objects moving through the framework.

It’s great technology but non standard, does not have industry acceptance, market share, requires a insanely steep learning curve where you have to learn everything over from scratch which is not realistic when you’re trying to keep up with technologies that are industry standard and will get you hired. It’s using Objective-C and JAVA which has to be cross-compiled to C++, everything is nonstandard and works differently from all other tech you are used to.

It’s what Apple is all about, fetish tech for creative people on drugs who don’t care about reality.

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:52 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

The only part I don’t understand is how any of it works. I understand
your code renders the pages and the pages don’t really exist there
is
no static html at all a click generates the code around what is
displayed. That part is no different then php or perl. I understand
session ID’s. What I do not in any way understand is what is Mindvox
doing when you load it? How does any of it work, it’s moving between
session ID’s in the same session, if I expand my browser to full
screen
and look at that 900 character line it shows as the URL not just
the
pages but the session ID at the root level of the tree is changing
in
the same session. I don’t get it, how does it know I’m still me when
I
move from place to place when it’s not in the same session? None
of the
software makes any sense at all.

.:vector:.

— Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com> wrote:
“Vector is a teenager who was making a wiseass response to Patrick
being very articulate. He’s also
a teenager which gives him more slack and if you’ve made it to
the
age of 42 without knowing that
this is the way that men often talk about women when they’re talking
to other men, I don’t know
what to tell you except go buy a book about how men think.”

Hey, this sucks big time.  Vector and anyone else (you) need to
realize you’re NOT just “talking to other men” on a list, and if
you
want to only talk to men, or only be with men, fine, carry on as
usual.  If you want women to like and respect you, stop the dissing.
I mean, if we wanted to, we “gals” could carry on quite a “funny”
discussion about how impotent and castrated some of you seem, or
the
size of your whozits, or whatever. (Are ya laffin?  Do ya “get
it”?
Don’t have a sense of humour? damn!) We don’t do so because we
respect that that’s not going to further englightenment, friendship,
or any other good “ship.”  I would say, “grow up!” If you hate
women,
admit it and find other outlets; if you don’t show some maturity.

And this is all just so 50’s it kills me.
Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 14, 2002 at 2:09:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I will give more thought to what I post and how I’m saying it, to the
ibogaine list at least. You answered nicely, I understood your
explanation and maybe what’s not a problem on some other parts of
mindvox is not appropriate here.

If I offended anyone on this list I didn’t mean to, I really was only
posting a compliment to Patrick and baked at the same time. What better
compliment? 🙂

I think I am going to move over to hushmail soon, yahoo really sucks
and I’m sick of it after only 2 months of having a stupid mailbox here.

I’m going to go post on crashtestdummies but Patrick you rock. I’ve
been reading the old messages from Mindvox for the whole weekend, you
people finally did it. You have it out of alpha 🙂 (string of
obscenities and a lot of exclamation points 🙂

Hell Frozen Over has frozen over. I do not believe it. After watching
it eat itself and explode for the last 6 months, it works. Mindvox is
opening! All of you rock. And I mean that not just because I want you
to hire me! 🙂

The only part I don’t understand is how any of it works. I understand
your code renders the pages and the pages don’t really exist there is
no static html at all a click generates the code around what is
displayed. That part is no different then php or perl. I understand
session ID’s. What I do not in any way understand is what is Mindvox
doing when you load it? How does any of it work, it’s moving between
session ID’s in the same session, if I expand my browser to full screen
and look at that 900 character line it shows as the URL not just the
pages but the session ID at the root level of the tree is changing in
the same session. I don’t get it, how does it know I’m still me when I
move from place to place when it’s not in the same session? None of the
software makes any sense at all.

.:vector:.

— Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com> wrote:
“Vector is a teenager who was making a wiseass response to Patrick
being very articulate. He’s also
a teenager which gives him more slack and if you’ve made it to the
age of 42 without knowing that
this is the way that men often talk about women when they’re talking
to other men, I don’t know
what to tell you except go buy a book about how men think.”

Hey, this sucks big time.  Vector and anyone else (you) need to
realize you’re NOT just “talking to other men” on a list, and if you
want to only talk to men, or only be with men, fine, carry on as
usual.  If you want women to like and respect you, stop the dissing.
I mean, if we wanted to, we “gals” could carry on quite a “funny”
discussion about how impotent and castrated some of you seem, or the
size of your whozits, or whatever. (Are ya laffin?  Do ya “get it”?
Don’t have a sense of humour? damn!) We don’t do so because we
respect that that’s not going to further englightenment, friendship,
or any other good “ship.”  I would say, “grow up!” If you hate women,
admit it and find other outlets; if you don’t show some maturity.

And this is all just so 50’s it kills me.
Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Simon.Kempthorne@toyotauk.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Think with compassion?
Date: October 14, 2002 at 5:29:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please unsubscribe me from this list asap. Thankyou very much.

Simon.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Think with compassion?
Date: October 14, 2002 at 5:23:51 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brebdan wrote
kill yourself and you’ll stop getting all the lists you and I are both on.

Andria responds…

Brebdan
I know very little about U, and I do know that some of the people on this list prolly have contemplated suicide many times. If U can’t behave with any more compassion or maturity than this – please stay ‘quiet.’ OR THINK befire U write

andria (London)

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 14, 2002 at 12:15:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Bill Ross wrote:

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. THANKS

SORRY, MY HANDS ARE TIED. GOOD LUCK.

kinky!

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 14, 2002 at 12:04:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. THANKS

SORRY, MY HANDS ARE TIED. GOOD LUCK.

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME
Date: October 13, 2002 at 8:55:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@Mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I realise you are retarded or going through withdrawl, whatever your problem is. I have 6 copies of your stupid msg counting all the lists you  mailed it to.

kill yourself and you’ll stop getting all the lists you and I are both on.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:26:00 -0700 StyleCollective@aol.com wrote:
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME STYLECOLLECTIVE@AOL.COM. ASAP. THANKS

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what year did the outlawing of ibogaine take place ?
Date: October 13, 2002 at 10:16:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anyone got the following data handy :

1) what year and with what act did it become outlawed in the USA

2) what year did it become outlawed in switzerland and belgium

are they the only three countries where it is ilegal to possess ibogaine?

just writing an article for andrias magazine “the users voice” – and i keep thinking it was the 1971 psychoactive scheduling but that seems too late and the 66 or was it 65 outlawing of other psychedelics seems too early.

hopefully, as its 3:15 am here in the UK – i can go to bed and those of u hours behind on the timeline can provide an answer.

this ibogaine induced lack of sleep is great – ive got more done in the last two weeks than the last twelve years……

thanks

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 13, 2002 at 9:04:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, StyleCollective@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As it says in the header (List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com) you need to
send an email (from the email account you want
unsubscribed) to “ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com”,
NOT to ibogaine@mindvox.com.

— StyleCollective@aol.com wrote:
I would like to unsubscribe. thanks

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME
Date: October 13, 2002 at 8:27:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: StyleCollective@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE STYLECOLLECTIVE@AOL.COM. ASAP. THANKS

Send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com. You might get some
long and complicated message back which amounts to the server trying to
verify that your address is valid. If you do, just hit reply and send that
message back to. I’ve never unsubscribed so I’m not sure if you’ll get that
or not. So just send the blank email, and if anything comes, just hit reply
and send whatever it is back.

chris

From: StyleCollective@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] UNSUBSCRIBE ME
Date: October 13, 2002 at 8:24:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE STYLECOLLECTIVE@AOL.COM. ASAP. THANKS

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 13, 2002 at 8:25:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: StyleCollective@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST

I would like to unsubscribe. thanks

Send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com. You might get some
long and complicated message back which amounts to the server trying to
verify that your address is valid. If you do, just hit reply and send that
message back to. I’ve never unsubscribed so I’m not sure if you’ll get that
or not. So just send the blank email, and if anything comes, just hit reply
and send whatever it is back.

chris

From: StyleCollective@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] UNSUNBSCRIBE
Date: October 13, 2002 at 8:22:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. THANKS

From: StyleCollective@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST
Date: October 13, 2002 at 8:21:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would like to unsubscribe. thanks

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Life After Heroin? Absolutely Erica
Date: October 13, 2002 at 5:05:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Mundo Real wrote:

Andria, what is this enzyme called that is necessary for the body (the liver) to metabolize ibogaine and what medical test is needed?  Thanks, mundo.
AndriaE@aol.com wrote:Dear Erica

Ibogaine metabolisation is catalysed by the P450 2d6 cytochrome of the
liver. Approximately 5 – 10 % of the population lacks the gene needed to
produce this enzyme, although that statistic varies somewhat with
ethnicity, i believe. There are also a number of drugs that are
metabolised by the same enzyme, including neuroleptics (anti-psychotics),
beta-blockers, tricyclic anti-depressants, and opioids.

hope this helps

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 13, 2002 at 4:44:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

Hey, this sucks big time.  Vector and anyone else (you) need to
realize you’re NOT just “talking to other men” on a list, and if you
want to only talk to men, or only be with men, fine, carry on as
usual.  If you want women to like and respect you, stop the dissing.
I mean, if we wanted to, we “gals” could carry on quite a “funny”
discussion about how impotent and castrated some of you seem, or the
size of your whozits, or whatever. (Are ya laffin?  Do ya “get it”?
Don’t have a sense of humour? damn!)

I for one, would find that hilarous.

We don’t do so because we
respect that that’s not going to further englightenment, friendship,
or any other good “ship.”  I would say, “grow up!” If you hate women,
admit it and find other outlets; if you don’t show some maturity.

It’s pretty sad to defend a weak spirit with mumbo jumbo about
enlightenment…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a complaint
Date: October 13, 2002 at 2:20:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I never met a dealer in NA; probably cos I wasn’t looking. If they are more prevalent in the U.S, I’d be concerned to watch out for undercover cops amongst them

Hope that never happens in London/U.K

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] unsuscribe
Date: October 13, 2002 at 2:35:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “M Sherman” <msherman1000@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:50 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] unsuscribe

Help!  Please unsubscribe me (temporarily) from the ibogaine mindvox list
as
I will be out of the country for a couple of weeks and receiving all of
the
emails will automatically shut down my e-mail account.

I won’t be able to access my e-mail from my location, so please make sure
I
don’t get any further messages- I REALLY don’t want to lose all of my
e-mail
messages.

Thanks!!

-Mark Sherman

Send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com. You might get some
long and complicated message back which amounts to the server trying to
verify that your address is valid. If you do, just hit reply and send that
message back to. I’ve never unsubscribed so I’m not sure if you’ll get that
or not. So just send the blank email, and if anything comes, just hit reply
and send whatever it is back.

chris

From: “M Sherman” <msherman1000@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] unsuscribe
Date: October 13, 2002 at 1:50:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Help!  Please unsubscribe me (temporarily) from the ibogaine mindvox list as I will be out of the country for a couple of weeks and receiving all of the emails will automatically shut down my e-mail account.

I won’t be able to access my e-mail from my location, so please make sure I don’t get any further messages- I REALLY don’t want to lose all of my e-mail messages.

Thanks!!

-Mark Sherman

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] a complaint
Date: October 13, 2002 at 12:45:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NA is a great place to meet dealers. One of the best in fact.

This isn’t a 12steps are bad msg, though they are it’s only validating what you said. They are a excellent place to meet new connects.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 08 Oct 2002 sara glatt wrote :
Didn’t you know it was the best place to meet  your new dealer ?

—– Original Message —–
From: <brendan22@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:43 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] a complaint

>
>
> I have been very disapointed in last few days with the conversations on
this list.
>
> They have been intelligent and with people talking to each other instead
of screaming at each other.
>
> I’m going to go find some NA groups now and tell them that everyone on
this list is saying they kill people.
>
> That should liven it up.
>
> I’m J/K. I’ve gotten so used to Day Brown I miss him when he doesn’t write
his 20 crack inspired history lessons every day to the vox list.
>
>
>
>
> Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the last msg I have on this topic
Date: October 13, 2002 at 12:19:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think theyve got it covered bro. I love the technology white paper. And you should get some flow going again and then hire me too. I hate my job and even if it’s the newer less depraved Mindvox I still want to work there too. Computers are terrible when all people want you to do for them is boring shit.

Peace out,
Curtis

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=About/Technology.html

Technology

MindVox is powered by an 8.0-liter V-13 engine. It features dual orgone injectors and a Vril supercharger, generating nearly 1.5 times infinite Horsepower (@ 9000rpm). It is housed in a floating sphere, which makes use of the latest anti-gravity technology recovered from crashed UFOs. The VoxSphere is composed of ultra-lightweight composite materials designed to absorb radio energy, subpoenas, arrest warrants, and negatively-charged vibrational fields.

MindVox is fueled by a precise combination of phenethylamines, tryptamines, and beta-carbolines. On a good day it can achieve superluminal velocity using quantum electronics, wishful thinking, and the souls of its enemies. Conversely, on a bad day it may just sit in a dark room bangin’ up narcotic analgesics and burning holes in the furniture as it drops lit cigarettes all over everything while nodding out.

MindVox resonates with the harmonics of all thoughtscapes, headspaces, and dimensions. It has been online since the Dawn of Time and will spin through the tapestry of shared consensual hallucinations for All Eternity. In certain locations MindVox may appear to experience cosmic turbulence and flicker out of existence, fading like a mirage. Since time is nonlinear — time, in fact, looks like an endlessly interlocking series of spirals fragmenting inwards and outward simultaneously — this phenomenon is illusory and transient; merely indicating MindVox is Temporarily Unavailable for a few minutes, decades, or lifetimes.

MindVox runs an operating system so advanced it is incompatible with itself, but fully error-correcting. It utilizes spectrophotometric determination to weed out irregular cell morphology and is capable of compiling against the functions of an angle of incidence using a sub-femtosecond measurement of transmission delay times, in order to obtain a photonic bandgap. This will cause MindVox to drop to monitor — with or without an NMI switch — allowing you to insert a disk containing DOS 3.3, and use any hex editor to alter the DNA.

All is well. Try not to panic. Things will be EVEN BETTER than fine; the angels WANT you to be Baker-acted — no wait, wrong conversation.

MindVox is the Greatest Thing that has Ever Existed

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

Go get one just one of the people the Mindvox crew did Duocash with. Don’t tell me any of you did anonymous porno billing for the love of it. I already know who wrote the fairy tale business plan and did the PR,you are amazing at that. You got this dog minted in 2000 which is a miracle and got 3 rounds of funding. That’s guiness book of world records material.

But you had somebody sitting there dealing with the real world because none of you can do that. Go get just one of those people for Mindvox.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subutex and Suboxone (buprenorphine and buprenorphine with naloxone) approved
Date: October 12, 2002 at 11:37:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What i cannot work out is HOW once the buprenorphine
is combined with
naloxone that has activity on all three receptor
sites doesnt cancel out the
partial agonist effects of subutex.

Paul,

I believe the naloxone was added to prevent abuse
(injecting) and at the levels orally taken will have
no (or little) effect on the buprenorphine. It would
seem the naltrexone also might be added to prevent
(block) abuse of other opiate agnoists, might be a
real kicker (pun) if an active opiate addict got their
hands on some. It is not use on actively addicted
opiate (agonist) addicts, use plain bup for that, I
would guestimate till the original opiate is out of
their system.

Brett

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Subutex and Suboxone
(buprenorphine and buprenorphine
with naloxone) approved
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:30:18 -0700 (PDT)

From the “FDA Talk Paper” released on Oct 8:
“The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced
the
approval of Subutex (buprenorphine hydrochloride)
and
Suboxone tablets (buprenorphine hydrochloride and
naloxone hydrochloride) for the treatment of opiate
dependence. Subutex and Suboxone treat opiate
addiction by preventing symptoms of withdrawal from
heroin and other opiates.

“These products represent two new formulations of
buprenorphine. The first of these formulations,
Subutex, contains only buprenorphine and is
intended for use at the beginning of treatment for
drug abuse. The other, Suboxone, contains both
buprenorphine and the opiate antagonist naloxone,
and
is intended to be the formulation used in
maintenance
treatment of opiate addiction. Naloxone has been
added
to Suboxone to guard against intravenous abuse of
buprenorphine by individuals physically dependent
on
opiates. Both drugs are supplied in 2 mg and 8 mg
tablets which are placed under the tongue and must
be
allowed to dissolve.”

See these documents at the FDA’s Center for Drug
Evaluation and Research web site:
o   FDA Talk Paper
o   Drug Label
o   Patient Leaflet
o   Physician Information
o   Information for Pharmacists
o   Questions and Answers About Subutex and
Suboxone

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/subutex_suboxone/default.htm

The Physician Information document includes a list
of
the steps and application forms necessary for
private
physicians to qualify to treat patients with these
drugs.

This is an enormous step forward in drug treatment
policy, 27 years after the promulgation of the
first
extensive methadone treatment regulations.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] carrie?
Date: October 12, 2002 at 10:15:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@Mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone else here talk with Carrie? I haven’t
heard from her in over 6 weeks now. I know she went
somewhere for the summer but she never came back 🙁

Is she out there again and does anyone have a
cellphone # or email that works for her?

Thanks

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Bwiti Religion and the psychoactive plant Tabernanthe iboga
Date: October 12, 2002 at 10:09:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve seen this xeroxed at needle exchanges before!
This is at least 5 years old and from a german
magazine called intekgration spelled something like
that. Neat to see it online 🙂

Without making anyone get upset because I lost it at
least twice, does anyone have a copy of the entheogen
review article on ibogaine and could they either email
it to me or post it one more time please?

I know it’s been on this list at least 3 times, but I
can’t find it! 🙁

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Giorgio Samorini’s article The Bwiti Religion and
the psychoactive plant
Tabernanthe iboga is now available at
http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

The articles includes 1) The History of Bwiti, 2)
Internal Structure, 3) The
Initiation Rite, 4) The Night Ceremonies, 5) The
Bwitist Mythology, 6) The
Duna Mushroom and 7) Bibliography.

http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Bwiti Religion and the psychoactive plant Tabernanthe iboga
Date: October 12, 2002 at 9:35:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Giorgio Samorini’s article The Bwiti Religion and the psychoactive plant
Tabernanthe iboga is now available at http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

The articles includes 1) The History of Bwiti, 2) Internal Structure, 3) The
Initiation Rite, 4) The Night Ceremonies, 5) The Bwitist Mythology, 6) The
Duna Mushroom and 7) Bibliography.

http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subutex and Suboxone (buprenorphine and buprenorphine with naloxone) approved
Date: October 12, 2002 at 8:40:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Trials have been taking place in the UK in the last couple of years at least to my knowledge and a lot longer in France.
I cannot presently remember which pharmacutical company is behind subutex, but there was a huge push over here, complete with hilarious glossy leaflets of a strung out addict on page one and as one turned the pages and learned more about the subutex,the subsequent strung out addict “miraculously” started to look better and better with each picture 😉 ..until at the end, he could have modelled for Gap.
From the “official” data i saw about the french experience, addicts seem to tolerate it well.(but we all know that data can be cooked in so many ways)
I think the neuro-pharmacology of buprenorphine is what appeals to the
treatment “specialists” – that it acts as an agonist for alpha and kappa opiate receptor sites but is an antagonist for the mu site (or is it a mu abd alpha agonist/kappa antagonist-heads a bit fuzzy – im sure someone will correct me if im wrong)
so, anyway, there is less chance of ODing with subutex because of the partial antagonist activity – whilst affording some relief due to its partial agonist activity.
I havent personally done it,so im not speaking from experience but the clinic round our way are touting it as the great white hope – of the (now) former network of users i was plugged into, three of them tried it.
And heres where it CANNOT be taken if opiates are still actively metabolising because of its antagonist effect – all 3 suprisingly did
and went into immediate withdrawal until the blocker effect diminished.
On subsequent occasions I know that one of em did do the full treatment and it did hold him until the dose got cut down, starting at 20mg and going down to 1mg – at which point he waited till the blocker effect stopped and scored.
I had no inkling about suboxone – and i cannot work the neurochemistry out – im thinking surely the naloxone which generates antagonism on all three receptor sites cancels out the agonist effect of the buprennorphine
-obviously i am wrong and should really go and read the article brett provided…
I did do that and i still cannot work it out – perhaps those clued up on the chemistry can tell me.

on one hand the FDA seem to be saying that a treatment of subutex followed by suboxone affords relief from opiate withdrawal and on the other hand, and i quote :

“The most common reported side effect of subutex and subuxone include cold or flu like symptoms,headaches,sweating,sleeping difficulties,nausea,moodswings” –

now it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out what the FDA are describing are opiate withdrawal symptoms and yet they are marketing the product as alliviating withdrawals – is this some kinda curious double speak – or is there something i am not getting.

OK – I can understand that the SUBUTEX affords some relief from withdrawals – AFTER – the heroin and methadone have done their metabolizing – BEFORE that it acts as a partial antagonist and seeing the state of the guys who took subutex a couple of hours after heroin
i can testify to this.

What i cannot work out is HOW once the buprenorphine is combined with naloxone that has activity on all three receptor sites doesnt cancel out the partial agonist effects of subutex.

I once did naloxone as part of a methadone/heroin detox and its the same as naltrexone – bang!-in minutes you are at the worst part of your turkey – never ever again,fucking ever.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Subutex and Suboxone (buprenorphine and buprenorphine with naloxone) approved
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:30:18 -0700 (PDT)

From the “FDA Talk Paper” released on Oct 8:
“The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced the
approval of Subutex (buprenorphine hydrochloride) and
Suboxone tablets (buprenorphine hydrochloride and
naloxone hydrochloride) for the treatment of opiate
dependence. Subutex and Suboxone treat opiate
addiction by preventing symptoms of withdrawal from
heroin and other opiates.

“These products represent two new formulations of
buprenorphine. The first of these formulations,
Subutex, contains only buprenorphine and is
intended for use at the beginning of treatment for
drug abuse. The other, Suboxone, contains both
buprenorphine and the opiate antagonist naloxone, and
is intended to be the formulation used in maintenance
treatment of opiate addiction. Naloxone has been added
to Suboxone to guard against intravenous abuse of
buprenorphine by individuals physically dependent on
opiates. Both drugs are supplied in 2 mg and 8 mg
tablets which are placed under the tongue and must be
allowed to dissolve.”

See these documents at the FDA’s Center for Drug
Evaluation and Research web site:
o   FDA Talk Paper
o   Drug Label
o   Patient Leaflet
o   Physician Information
o   Information for Pharmacists
o   Questions and Answers About Subutex and Suboxone

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/subutex_suboxone/default.htm

The Physician Information document includes a list of
the steps and application forms necessary for private
physicians to qualify to treat patients with these
drugs.

This is an enormous step forward in drug treatment
policy, 27 years after the promulgation of the first
extensive methadone treatment regulations.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Un-subscribe From List Request
Date: October 12, 2002 at 7:38:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is a digest. You can get all the msgs in one msg if you want instead of 30 a day. Patrick has of course never posted the instructions. I think ezmlm does ibogaine-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com and it’ll work.

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:15:43 -0700 Joatammmo23@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 10/5/02 2:54:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
soma_angelx@yahoo.com writes:

I need to unsubscribe from this list at this time. Can
a list admin help me with this?

I also want to unsubscribe from this list.  My mail box is loaded
up daily
and I cannot handle this much mail.
jo

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] cyp2d6 repost 2 Dr. Patrick Kroupa 🙂
Date: October 12, 2002 at 7:23:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 22 May 2002 11:12:57 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, May 22, 2002 at 02:13:25PM +0100], [Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt]
wrote:

| Jon
|
| Which country are you in?

John is Dr. Pablo, he lives in the country of the mind, in a state
of
insanity.  Which is to say, most of the time, 20 yards away from
where I
am.  Or Miami even, to put it another way.

| You may be referring to Liver Function Test and FBC (Full Blodd
Counts) but
| as far as I’m aware these will not give you the full mckoy on the
state of
| ones liver. Hattie, don’t get confused. Send an e-mail to Mat Dolan,
who
| wrote the HCV Handbook (my potty buddy and he really is my teacher
on HCV)
| cos he has to be updated as a result of re-writing his book each
2 yrs or so

Look…  Alla youz can beat nomenclature, details, and theory, into
the
dust, then sift through it sideways searching for <whatever>.  But
it’s
pretty simple:

Yes, to the best of my knowledge at this point in time, it is not
possible
to accurately and exactly test liver function without a biopsy.
However,
this is going off on a tangent.  If you run the standard, simple
blood
tests which include a liver panel, and nothing comes up really wacked,
then you are more or less — probably — okay.

This isn’t the be all, end all, of testing, because it’s a really
good
idea to test for the prescence of a gene (CYP2D6 [Cytochrome p450
2D6])
for the protein which metabolizes ibogaine.  There is a certain percentage
of the population which does NOT have the wildtype gene.

Ibogaine can be metabolized without it, usually the answer is a much
lower
dose.  However.  If someone has Hep C — in an active/uncontrolled
state,
lacks this gene (how you would go about testing for it in other parts
of
the world, I do not know…  I just know what happens here.  It should
not
be impossible.), you dose ’em with a “low” dose of ibogaine to be
safe …
the end result can still be a dead body, because the ibogaine isn’t
being
metabolized/metabolized fast enough, and then you wind up with shit
like
Q-T prolongation and torsades.

And if you wind up with these situations in an environment where
there
isn’t anyone present that knows how to prevent them from dropping
dead.
Presto, you gots a dead body.

In short, lots of super-bad THINGS can happen.

None of these are Great Secrets.  All this shit has been published
already.

– – – – – – – – –

To summarize:  You need roughly half your liver still going.  (presuming
this is the problem, and your heart is “okay” and nothing else is
really
wacked the fuck out.)

– – – – – – – – –

Now…  Here’s the great big grey area…

What’s “good enough” … and how do you define that.

Medicine isn’t very exact, there are an awful lot of very healthy
people
who drop dead for all sorts of reasons — other than being shot,
OD’ing,
or getting hit by a truck — and there are an equal or greater number
of
people who have a Fucking Towering Mountain of shit wrong with them,
who
really should have dropped dead decades ago, and they keep right
on
living.  <shrug>

To drop into the subjective: when I wanted to dose with ibogaine,
I lied
about every fucking thing imaginable, regarding what I was or was
not
taking, and the doses I was on, because I was afraid nobody would
even
attempt to detox me from all that shit (200mg methadone + roughly
2
grams of heroin + 12mg xanax, on an average day, to just get “normal”).

All my tests are within “normal” ranges, whether due to karma, luck,
genetics, or simply because I’m still indestructible and not old
enough to
have suffered direct physical consequences from all the stupid shit
I’ve
done to myself.

However…  Were my tests NOT normal.  Would I have shrugged, said,
“oh
well, I can’t do this,” and moved on to another possible treatment?
FUCK
NO.  Tried ’em all, none worked, this is what I WANT/NEED.  I do
not give
a fuck what your inclusion/exclusion criteria is, for me this is
my life,
I am on a kamikaze run, and if it kills me, who gives a shit, it’s
not
like I’m living now anyway; just my time to go.  Oh well.

What I’m saying is; if my tests were in any way abnormal, I would
have
simply engaged in some creative art, printed up some Just Super Fine
Perfect results, and if you wanted to receive those results from
a doctor
or a lab; well hey, no problem, I will access the switch that their
phones
are on, and for that entire afternoon or day, every single call going
into
or out of those offices, will go to ME instead.  You’re not gonna
stop me,
I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid, I need this, I don’t care what
you
want or don’t want.

And, I’d posit there are a whole lot of people who would do same,
or
something similar.

This is called desperation.  <see also: drug dependence>

To conclude this rambling in some cohesive manner: I absolutely think
people who are in the “grey area” should have the chance to get their
lives back.  However, there are a whole lot of variables there to
deal
with…  I would strongly suggest that SOMEONE who knows what to
do in the
event of a medical emergency, is present, when you’re dosing anybody
who
fits this criteria…  If they had a few pieces of useful equipment
onhand, this really wouldn’t hurt either.

Because if they drop dead, oh well, their problems are over, better
luck
in your next life.  But yours have just begun.  You now have a dead
body,
and depending on what part of the world you’re in, it’s quite possible
you
will face murder or manslaughter charges — no matter how good your
intentions were.

– – – – – – – – –

Having said all that, what would I personally do…  I would have
at the
very least a basic emergency kit onhand.  I would hope for the best,
and I
wouldn’t touch anybody who gave me a really negative vibe…  This
may be
stupid, but I’m not dead, or in prison, and every single time the
alarms
went off in my head really loud, despite no other evidence to support
my
feelings…  I have been extremely fucking grateful I listened, “hey
Patrick, it is TIME to bail, and get the fuck out of this situation/place
‘cuz something really bad is right on the horizon, and approaching
very
rapidly.”

Beyond that, it’s very hard to say…  Is this person all fucked
up and
acting weird because they’re smoking crack, going through withdrawal,
or because there’s something seriously wrong with them…  Getting
that
answer without medical testing borders on the impossible.

Because, as I may have mentioned…  People who are desperate, tend
to lie
an awful lot.  Especially when they have very little left to lose.

Patrick

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] cyp2d6 repost 1 Dr. John Pablo
Date: October 12, 2002 at 7:22:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 21 May 2002 11:00:14 -0700 John Pablo <jpp71@hotmail.com> wrote:
As we all are aware, Hep C when active is a virus that attacks the
liver,
the filter/detoxifier of the body.  The main enzymes that are responsible
for metabolizing a great percentage of the drugs we ingest are located
in
this organ.  Hence, if your liver was damaged from having been exposed
to
hepatitis C, then there is a good chance that the normal level of
the enzyme
that is required (i.e. cytochrome P450-2D6) to properly metabolize
a typical
oral dose of  ibogaine would not be present.  However, being tested
positive
for Hep C does not necessarily mean that your liver has been effected
beyond
recovery.  In fact, one’s immune system could concievably have succesfully
combated the virus without ever having had symptoms, but of course
they
would still test positive for exposure.  So, to say someone is positive
for
Hep C simply means that their immune system has reacted to it and
they have
an antibody coded for the virus.  It does not state whether the person’s
liver has been damaged by the exposure.  However, the “fitness” of
their
liver needs to be determined because there is a possibility that
it could
have been significantly effected.  I will depict the potential for
potential
problem with a simple analogy: Direct treatment of a Hep C positive
person
without further determination of their liver’s health is like playing
russian roulette where you have anywhere from 1-3 bullet(s) in a
cylinder
that holds 6 statistically depending on the overall population.
Hence there
is a distinct possibility that an OD on ibogaine can occur and if
the person
has background respiratory or heart problems then it lead to very
serious
consequences.  Also, lack of the ability to metabolize ibogaine to
noribogaine may significantly deter the opiate detoxifying as well
as
serotonergic component of the treatment…Oh well, just a thought!

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and hep c
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:50:54 +0100

Can anyone clarify for everyone what exactly the dangers are with
ibogaine
consumption by those with Hep C? People ask me all the time and
I have
never
been very clear. I know treatment providers who treat people with
Hep C,
and
I have done once with someone whose count was under control and
low.
But does anyone have any serious safety guidelines on this.

Thanks

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 12, 2002 at 7:21:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wrote that. Never mind. I’ll be nicer. I’ll even pull Patrick and John Pablo’s cypd2d6 msgs out of the archive here and post them. Since Patrick hasn’t answered his email in 2 years. It’s all in the help files which most of you never read.

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:52:52 -0700 Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com> wrote:
“Vector is a teenager who was making a wiseass response to Patrick
being very articulate. He’s also
a teenager which gives him more slack and if you’ve made it to the
age of 42 without knowing that
this is the way that men often talk about women when they’re talking
to other men, I don’t know
what to tell you except go buy a book about how men think.”

Hey, this sucks big time.  Vector and anyone else (you) need to
realize you’re NOT just “talking to other men” on a list, and if
you
want to only talk to men, or only be with men, fine, carry on as
usual.  If you want women to like and respect you, stop the dissing.
I mean, if we wanted to, we “gals” could carry on quite a “funny”
discussion about how impotent and castrated some of you seem, or
the
size of your whozits, or whatever. (Are ya laffin?  Do ya “get it”?
Don’t have a sense of humour? damn!) We don’t do so because we
respect that that’s not going to further englightenment, friendship,
or any other good “ship.”  I would say, “grow up!” If you hate women,
admit it and find other outlets; if you don’t show some maturity.

And this is all just so 50’s it kills me.
Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] simple truths
Date: October 12, 2002 at 7:18:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We’re just looking out for your best interests.

We’re also bored, unemployed and I have about 3 years left before I have to go get a job or start collecting welfare. 6 years if I want to live cheap. I don’t want to live cheap, I don’t get out of bed in the afternoon for less than $175K a year.

If you’re going to hire all of us you need to be able to make payroll. We just want to help you in that direction.

I understand PTT was a big misunderstanding. If only they’d given you 10 more million it would have been the greatest piece of software that ever was. I believe that.

So start dealing with reality. You have to hire all of us in less than 3 years. Get moving. We all want you to be rich again soon, only because we care about you.

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:05:20 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Basically, yes, we know all this.  Yeah we’re working on it.  This
isn’t
anyone’s job, we don’t have a deadline, we’re doing whatever we’re
doing.

<Shrug>

What I do not comprehend is why all of you bitch and complain about
everything, and feel the need to keep repeating the obvious.  What
difference does it make to any of you.

Anywaze, please stop dumping this drivel into the ibogaine list,
keep it
on the other forums, and when we open the new lists we’ll add a dot.bomb
survivors forum, so everyone can sit and spin in an eternal circle-jerk
of
neverending misery and angst.  Sorta like grunge, but without flannel,
heroin and stock options.

Patrick

n.b., PTT and the whole entire Netherlands just had some crazy
misunderstanding with various people in the olden daze.  If they’d
only
coughed up another 2 or 3 million, everything would have been Even
Better
than Fine.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Life After Heroin? Absolutely Erica
Date: October 12, 2002 at 4:47:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Erica

The Enzyme thing, U will need to ask Howard or Brett, or Patrick; I can’t remember
They are far more experienced and knowledgeable around Ibogaine

Good Luck

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Life After Heroin? Absolutely Erica
Date: October 12, 2002 at 3:10:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mundo,

There is more than 1 way to metabolize ibogaine to
nor-ibogaine, the primary one is via CYP2D6. I suppose
there is a test for it but don’t know of anyone
pre-testing (maybe Mash does) for CYP2D6 as part of
protocol. It is the same enzyme used metabolize
codeine to morphine, so if codeine doesn’t work for
you it might (my theory) be a good indication of lack
of CYP2D6. Medical tests for ibogaine would include a
general physical/blood chemistry, EKG and liver
testing. A TEST dose of ibogaine is also standard
procedure, if it hits very hard it might be an
indication of low CYP2D6 and a good idea to cut back
on the dose.

Brett
— Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com> wrote:

Andria, what is this enzyme called that is necessary
for the body (the liver) to metabolize ibogaine and
what medical test is needed?  Thanks, mundo.
AndriaE@aol.com wrote:Dear Erica

Do not let Patrick fool U; he’s a wise and wonderful
man; he just has a very colourful way of describing
life, the universe and everything. (Well that’s how
I see it anyways)

I’m writing to you from my home in London. I have
done Ibogaine, but as it happens it wasn’ t that
which has assisted me to stay off H for the last 9 &
a quarter yrs..It was sheer desire to have a better
life, swimming, reconnecting with my family and
friends in a real way (letting go of fear, guilt and
rage) not to mention my work which is my raison
d’etre since the death of my gorgeous and brilliant
hubby (to AIDS) in 1995.

On the other hand, I took Ibogaine 2 and a quarter
yrs ago, and had a very extraordinary experience. To
keep it brief, the aftermath is what helped me
enormously, and stopped me falling off the rails
again – that is, I was given this wonderful feeling
of calm, loving and serenity.

U r young and lucid; i can ‘see’ that from the
e-mail u sent us here. It sounds like U have every
chance of doing well with the Ibogaine, coming off
heroin and staying off.

U will need to have a few physical tests done first,
e.g. a test to ensure that u have a particular
enzyme that is vital to metabolise Ibogaine. Could a
more senior/experienced Ibogaine guide explain this
to Erica more clearly.

Wishing U all the strength, light and love towards
yr successful recovery. Keep us posted on how U do.

Andria mordaunt

Hi I’ve been reading this list for a while and think
this is
a great place.

I’m 25 and I’ve been doing heroin since I was 18 and
lately
mostly oxy’s. I will be doing ibogaine in a month
and I have
some questions for anyone who can answer please.

I have never done any drug treatment or the
aftercare before
but reading what’s online in places and in this
group nearly
all of you have gone through some of that or a lot
of that,
but mostly none of you are doing it now to stay
clean and
had bad experiences with it.

I was wondering what some of you do or did to stay
clean
right after ibogaine? Should I expect it to be very
hard or
does the desire to stop using just go away? I’ve
read about
the last month and a half of this list and I’ve read
Patrick’s articles and writings which are like wow,
do you
want to get some coffee and talk, are you single?
😉 What I
mean is you’re a really smart weirdo who’s cute and
wow can
you write! I read some of it and it’s you’re writing
a acid
trip, how the f**k do you do that? And where do I
get
whatever drugs you’ve done! 😉

But what I mean is I’m interested and attracted by
what you
are and what you say but at the same time I have to
be real
and admit I have not the slightest idea what you’re
talking
about most of the time.

I know some of you here are doing all that too but
I’m much
more interested in knowing what happens a week after
ibogaine? a month? I’ve read enough here to believe
it works
and cleans you up but then what do I do? I hate the
groups,
are there any different or better groups or
anything.

What I mean to say is some of you have progressed a
long way
from being on heroin and gone to much different
places but
what were all of you who made it and are clean years
later,
doing a week after you got off heroin and did
ibogaine! And
a month after. That exactly is my question.

Thank you!

erica

———————————
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar]MDMA & that cute 2 yr old.. U.K story
Date: October 12, 2002 at 1:47:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria, pure MDMA, when used in the proper setting (whatever that may be for those involved), and with the right mindset (intention) can be very healing, life-changing, and great for conflict resolution. Unfortunately there is so much money to be made off of MDMA that often it is adulterated. That’s where the danger may lie. Also, lack of info. on how to use it safely is not promulgated through common media sources. Those that are the gate-keepers to knowlege (governments, sicko rich freaks that run the world, etc.) know that MDMA can change society (along with cannabis, iboga / ibogaine, mushrooms, yage, DMT etc…) and they are very AFRAID of these substances (yet they have no qualms exploiting them to make sick amounts of money, and arresting us when we use them). Anyways, glad to hear the kid didn’t get hurt. It probably took the child to a place she / he was very used to: innocent, empathetic LOVE.
AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
DEAR Fellow recoverers & Iboga discussants and researchers,

I don’t know if you’ve heard about this one yet.. but browsing through all the newspapers yesterday, I found 3 coverages of the fact that one of our famous actresses 2 yr old accidentally popped a small part of a tab of E and is perfectly fine.

I was in the ‘senior common room’ at school (place for posh VIPs, I think: i go there cos I’m trying to chat a few of them into doing a DPReform gig, and to read – it’s quiet there) Anyways, reading the articles, I burst out laughing and went into a little-gal peel of giggles and the VIP professor over there was giving me that kinda, oh-she’s-just-another-local-nut-look!

And this is an important event; the details are a little scant at the moment, but if a 2 yr old can take a little E and be fine, what does that say about MDMA after all?

Howz Karina? Anyone know?

Love andria mordaunt
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

From: Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Life After Heroin? Absolutely Erica
Date: October 12, 2002 at 1:32:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria, what is this enzyme called that is necessary for the body (the liver) to metabolize ibogaine and what medical test is needed?  Thanks, mundo.
AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
Dear Erica

Do not let Patrick fool U; he’s a wise and wonderful man; he just has a very colourful way of describing life, the universe and everything. (Well that’s how I see it anyways)

I’m writing to you from my home in London. I have done Ibogaine, but as it happens it wasn’ t that which has assisted me to stay off H for the last 9 & a quarter yrs..It was sheer desire to have a better life, swimming, reconnecting with my family and friends in a real way (letting go of fear, guilt and rage) not to mention my work which is my raison d’etre since the death of my gorgeous and brilliant hubby (to AIDS) in 1995.

On the other hand, I took Ibogaine 2 and a quarter yrs ago, and had a very extraordinary experience. To keep it brief, the aftermath is what helped me enormously, and stopped me falling off the rails again – that is, I was given this wonderful feeling of calm, loving and serenity.

U r young and lucid; i can ‘see’ that from the e-mail u sent us here. It sounds like U have every chance of doing well with the Ibogaine, coming off heroin and staying off.

U will need to have a few physical tests done first, e.g. a test to ensure that u have a particular enzyme that is vital to metabolise Ibogaine. Could a more senior/experienced Ibogaine guide explain this to Erica more clearly.

Wishing U all the strength, light and love towards yr successful recovery. Keep us posted on how U do.

Andria mordaunt

Hi I’ve been reading this list for a while and think this is
a great place.

I’m 25 and I’ve been doing heroin since I was 18 and lately
mostly oxy’s. I will be doing ibogaine in a month and I have
some questions for anyone who can answer please.

I have never done any drug treatment or the aftercare before
but reading what’s online in places and in this group nearly
all of you have gone through some of that or a lot of that,
but mostly none of you are doing it now to stay clean and
had bad experiences with it.

I was wondering what some of you do or did to stay clean
right after ibogaine? Should I expect it to be very hard or
does the desire to stop using just go away? I’ve read about
the last month and a half of this list and I’ve read
Patrick’s articles and writings which are like wow, do you
want to get some coffee and talk, are you single? 😉 What I
mean is you’re a really smart weirdo who’s cute and wow can
you write! I read some of it and it’s you’re writing a acid
trip, how the f**k do you do that? And where do I get
whatever drugs you’ve done! 😉

But what I mean is I’m interested and attracted by what you
are and what you say but at the same time I have to be real
and admit I have not the slightest idea what you’re talking
about most of the time.

I know some of you here are doing all that too but I’m much
more interested in knowing what happens a week after
ibogaine? a month? I’ve read enough here to believe it works
and cleans you up but then what do I do? I hate the groups,
are there any different or better groups or anything.

What I mean to say is some of you have progressed a long way
from being on heroin and gone to much different places but
what were all of you who made it and are clean years later,
doing a week after you got off heroin and did ibogaine! And
a month after. That exactly is my question.

Thank you!

erica

 

Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:reality
Date: October 12, 2002 at 10:31:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Absolutely Alison

What’s my responsibility?What’s the treatments? And what’s the treatmenters?

Check de flash sig – been teaching myself how to address VIPs!

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Subutex and Suboxone (buprenorphine and buprenorphine with naloxone) approved
Date: October 12, 2002 at 10:30:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From the “FDA Talk Paper” released on Oct 8:
“The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced the
approval of Subutex (buprenorphine hydrochloride) and
Suboxone tablets (buprenorphine hydrochloride and
naloxone hydrochloride) for the treatment of opiate
dependence. Subutex and Suboxone treat opiate
addiction by preventing symptoms of withdrawal from
heroin and other opiates.

“These products represent two new formulations of
buprenorphine. The first of these formulations,
Subutex, contains only buprenorphine and is
intended for use at the beginning of treatment for
drug abuse. The other, Suboxone, contains both
buprenorphine and the opiate antagonist naloxone, and
is intended to be the formulation used in maintenance
treatment of opiate addiction. Naloxone has been added
to Suboxone to guard against intravenous abuse of
buprenorphine by individuals physically dependent on
opiates. Both drugs are supplied in 2 mg and 8 mg
tablets which are placed under the tongue and must be
allowed to dissolve.”

See these documents at the FDA’s Center for Drug
Evaluation and Research web site:
o   FDA Talk Paper
o   Drug Label
o   Patient Leaflet
o   Physician Information
o   Information for Pharmacists
o   Questions and Answers About Subutex and Suboxone

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/subutex_suboxone/default.htm

The Physician Information document includes a list of
the steps and application forms necessary for private
physicians to qualify to treat patients with these
drugs.

This is an enormous step forward in drug treatment
policy, 27 years after the promulgation of the first
extensive methadone treatment regulations.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:reality
Date: October 12, 2002 at 3:14:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If we were all so into and onto reality we would probably not be addicts
and/or ex addicts and also probably wouldn’t bother accessing this site
etc./    How many of us really want reality as such and even then who can
say what it is or isn’t.   Tis like saying normal   “whats normal” and in
whose opinion.
I know a lot of people bitch and complain but even that is human nature to a
certain degree.   You only have to take on board what you want to and you
don’t have to get upset at every little thing out there that doesn;t agree
with you.   Somewhere along the line you have to look at yourself and your
own life and get on with it.    Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Saturday, 12 October 2002 08:18
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] simple truths

On [Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 06:03:04PM -0700], [ascending@hushmail.com] wrote:

| My messages were written in a reply to what goes through the other
| Mindvox lists and what Drew says in irc. It isn’t that Mindvox is
| supposed to turn all their effort into being a professional company,
| it’s that they should devote only a little effort to dealing with
| reality.

<etc.>

Dude, what I don’t unnerstan’ is why you and Dennis and all the rest of
youz, keep having this same series of insights on the Vox list, on Full
Disclosure, on WhateverTheFuck.

Basically, yes, we know all this.  Yeah we’re working on it.  This isn’t
anyone’s job, we don’t have a deadline, we’re doing whatever we’re doing.

<Shrug>

What I do not comprehend is why all of you bitch and complain about
everything, and feel the need to keep repeating the obvious.  What
difference does it make to any of you.

Anywaze, please stop dumping this drivel into the ibogaine list, keep it
on the other forums, and when we open the new lists we’ll add a dot.bomb
survivors forum, so everyone can sit and spin in an eternal circle-jerk of
neverending misery and angst.  Sorta like grunge, but without flannel,
heroin and stock options.

Patrick

n.b., PTT and the whole entire Netherlands just had some crazy
misunderstanding with various people in the olden daze.  If they’d only
coughed up another 2 or 3 million, everything would have been Even Better
than Fine.

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 11, 2002 at 8:52:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Vector is a teenager who was making a wiseass response to Patrick
being very articulate. He’s also
a teenager which gives him more slack and if you’ve made it to the
age of 42 without knowing that
this is the way that men often talk about women when they’re talking
to other men, I don’t know
what to tell you except go buy a book about how men think.”

Hey, this sucks big time.  Vector and anyone else (you) need to
realize you’re NOT just “talking to other men” on a list, and if you
want to only talk to men, or only be with men, fine, carry on as
usual.  If you want women to like and respect you, stop the dissing.
I mean, if we wanted to, we “gals” could carry on quite a “funny”
discussion about how impotent and castrated some of you seem, or the
size of your whozits, or whatever. (Are ya laffin?  Do ya “get it”?
Don’t have a sense of humour? damn!) We don’t do so because we
respect that that’s not going to further englightenment, friendship,
or any other good “ship.”  I would say, “grow up!” If you hate women,
admit it and find other outlets; if you don’t show some maturity.

And this is all just so 50’s it kills me.
Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Un-subscribe From List Request
Date: October 11, 2002 at 8:26:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Un-subscribe From List Request

In a message dated 10/5/02 2:54:01 PM Central Daylight Time, soma_angelx@yahoo.com writes:

I need to unsubscribe from this list at this time. Can
a list admin help me with this?

I also want to unsubscribe from this list.  My mail box is loaded up daily and I cannot handle this much mail.
jo

Send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com. You might get some long and complicated message back which amounts to the server trying to verify that your address is valid. If you do, just hit reply and send that message back to. I’ve never unsubscribed so I’m not sure if you’ll get that or not. So just send the blank email, and if anything comes, just hit reply and send whatever it is back.

chris

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Un-subscribe From List Request
Date: October 11, 2002 at 8:15:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/5/02 2:54:01 PM Central Daylight Time, soma_angelx@yahoo.com writes:

I need to unsubscribe from this list at this time. Can
a list admin help me with this?

I also want to unsubscribe from this list.  My mail box is loaded up daily and I cannot handle this much mail.
jo

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Double posts
Date: October 11, 2002 at 4:06:33 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone else getting double posts thorugh the list (Drugwar & Ibogaine)? The
last two messages I sent came through to me twice, though I checked my sent
messages and didn’t send them twice. This has been happening on and off for
a little while, sort of randomly, not just with my posts. Patrick’s last
post to Ibogaine came through twice as well. Not sure what’s happening.
Maybe ezmlm had a few too many pints at the pub and is seeing double …

I’d send this to vox, too, but it’s been a bit dead lately, so haven’t
noticed if there are doubles there.

Oh, Patrick, no matter how many duplicates I get, and no matter what all the
insane h4x0rz say (who are all wonderful, shiny happy people), Mindvox still
r0x0rs 😉

– jt

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] simple truths
Date: October 11, 2002 at 3:05:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 06:03:04PM -0700], [ascending@hushmail.com] wrote:

| My messages were written in a reply to what goes through the other
| Mindvox lists and what Drew says in irc. It isn’t that Mindvox is
| supposed to turn all their effort into being a professional company,
| it’s that they should devote only a little effort to dealing with
| reality.

<etc.>

Dude, what I don’t unnerstan’ is why you and Dennis and all the rest of
youz, keep having this same series of insights on the Vox list, on Full
Disclosure, on WhateverTheFuck.

Basically, yes, we know all this.  Yeah we’re working on it.  This isn’t
anyone’s job, we don’t have a deadline, we’re doing whatever we’re doing.

<Shrug>

What I do not comprehend is why all of you bitch and complain about
everything, and feel the need to keep repeating the obvious.  What
difference does it make to any of you.

Anywaze, please stop dumping this drivel into the ibogaine list, keep it
on the other forums, and when we open the new lists we’ll add a dot.bomb
survivors forum, so everyone can sit and spin in an eternal circle-jerk of
neverending misery and angst.  Sorta like grunge, but without flannel,
heroin and stock options.

Patrick

n.b., PTT and the whole entire Netherlands just had some crazy
misunderstanding with various people in the olden daze.  If they’d only
coughed up another 2 or 3 million, everything would have been Even Better
than Fine.

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] treatment report
Date: October 11, 2002 at 1:16:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The result is that the person is clean ,and he doesn’t need this medication
,
anyway it is just to let you know ,  normaly people would have a seizure
trying to stop this kind of medication ,
but not with Iboga , they don’t . so that’s what is about nobody els is
doing it ,if I will not tell you ,you wouldn’t know
but many addicts to Methadone get also other medications which are hard to
get off without  risking getting a seizure.what if your Dr. will give you
the wrong medication would you like to stay on it for the rest of you life?
if you would look at all the side effect it can make you more sick then
before and nobody will tell you
that you can become a zombie after taking it for few years ,
I don’t not use Ibogaine  but Iboga extract which is possible to give in
different dosages for different addictions ,

Sara

—– Original Message —–
From: <ascending@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] treatment report

You’re detoxing people from anti epileptic and anti psychotic meds by
giving them ibogaine?

And the results of this are supposed to be what?

On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 03:31:28 -0700 sara glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Treatment report ,

a patient came off  Olanzapine  and oxcarbzepine  , Anti -epileptic
drug and anti psychotic drug ,

now no major side effect of stoping this medication which he took

for half a year , hands are still a little shakey , that five days
after stoping ,

He got 5 grams of iboga extract , and then two days later another
half before going to sleep .

no problem sleeping ,

Sara

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] the last msg I have on this topic
Date: October 10, 2002 at 9:15:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Go get one just one of the people the Mindvox crew did Duocash with. Don’t tell me any of you did anonymous porno billing for the love of it. I already know who wrote the fairy tale business plan and did the PR,you are amazing at that. You got this dog minted in 2000 which is a miracle and got 3 rounds of funding. That’s guiness book of world records material.

But you had somebody sitting there dealing with the real world because none of you can do that. Go get just one of those people for Mindvox.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] simple truths
Date: October 10, 2002 at 9:03:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My messages were written in a reply to what goes through the other Mindvox lists and what Drew says in irc. It isn’t that Mindvox is supposed to turn all their effort into being a professional company, it’s that they should devote only a little effort to dealing with reality.

Mindvox has at least 3 maybe 4 or 5 machines hooked to the internet. The web server, there is mail, there is another machine that is their own phantom domain, there is a firewall which is some type of bsd system, they are hosting at least 35 to 50 web sites somewhere. At their hit rate they are well past T1 bandwidth. Running Mindvox is not giving a web hosting company $39 a month to run a web site, Mindvox is a $3,000 to $4,000 a month bill to stay online. Not counting any of the hardware.

That’s a very expensive hobby.

I’m not telling anyone what to do, Patrick is doing whatever Patrick does to hypnotize people and make them keep coming here. Patrick isn’t the problem and I give him much respect and credit for being a great wordsmith in addition to all the other things he is. Drew Ross isn’t the problem.

The problem is that this exact situation can be looked up on kenkappel.com, which is ironic and sad at the same time. The only difference between what Mindvox is doing now and was doing 5 years ago, is they aren’t spending 1.2 million dollars of the Dutch government’s money and destroying their corporate apartments.

Maybe the problem wasn’t the drugs after all. This has been said oh, 500 times, so why repeat it.

Saying it as a statement, not a insult, everyone running Mindvox are a group of brilliant idiots. Go find one guy who understands reality and you’ll all be worth 50 million in a few years. There’s your answer for when you get bent out of shape Mr. Kroupa “fucking dot com owes me at least 50 fucking million I want my fucking money” you can collect. Find one person who understands the real world. You have enough brilliant space cadets. Stop collecting them and get one normal person.

On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 03:01:08 -0700 Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I don’t know about everyone else out there but as far as I’m concerned
and a
lot of other people I know life is not all about money and making
money,
There are other things in life depending on your attitude and perspective.
Why should everyone have to have this consuming desire to make money.
Sure
its great to have enough to do the things you want to do but even
that can
be a bit of a double problem at times.   Perhaps there is someone
else who
can explain things a bit better.    Allison..

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 10, 2002 at 8:59:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/10/02 8:36:24 PM, ascending@hushmail.com writes:

Andria in reading what you reply to people who are making very obvious
jokes and you in turn taking them seriously I’d say you are humor impaired
and have no sense of humor. This isn’t to insult you, only to make a
observation.

Vector is a teenager who was making a wiseass response to Patrick being
very articulate. He’s also a teenager which gives him more slack and if
you’ve made it to the age of 42 without knowing that this is the way that
men often talk about women when they’re talking to other men, I don’t know
what to tell you except go buy a book about how men think.

It doesn’t mean that Andria or anyone else regardless of gender has to like
or tolerate vector’s remarks.  I didn’t find them humorous.  Just my opinion.
No need to carry this discussion further on my part.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/
Date: October 10, 2002 at 8:55:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The following are some dates for readings by Daniel Pinchbeck from his book,
Breaking Open the Head: A Psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary
Shamanism.

His web page:  http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/

His great Bwiti article from Salon.com:
http://www.salon.com/travel/feature/1999/11/03/iboga/

Howard

Reading Dates:

Friday, October 11
New York Open Center
83 Spring Street (between Broadway and Lafayette)
8 p.m. ($17)
Lecture on Post-Modern Shamanism and the Dimensional Shift
Questions and Answers to Follow

Monday, October 14
Stacey’s Books
12:30 p.m – 1:30 p.m.
581 Market Street
San Francisco CA

Monday October 14
Capitola Book Cafe
7:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
1475 41st Avenue
Capitola CA

Wednesday October 16
BookSoup
8:00 p.m. – 9:00 p.m.
8818 Sunset Boulevard
West Hollywood CA

Wednesday October 23
Boulder Book Store
7:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
1107 Pearl Street (Pearl Street Mall)
Boulder CO

Wednesday October 30
KGB Bar
7 p.m.
4th St between 2nd and 3rd
New York NY

Monday, November 11
Columbia University Journalism School Lecture Hall
7:00 p.m.
enter at 116th Street and Broadway
New York NY

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] treatment report
Date: October 10, 2002 at 8:36:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’re detoxing people from anti epileptic and anti psychotic meds by giving them ibogaine?

And the results of this are supposed to be what?

On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 03:31:28 -0700 sara glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Treatment report ,

a patient came off  Olanzapine  and oxcarbzepine  , Anti -epileptic
drug and anti psychotic drug ,

now no major side effect of stoping this medication which he took

for half a year , hands are still a little shakey , that five days
after stoping ,

He got 5 grams of iboga extract , and then two days later another
half before going to sleep .

no problem sleeping ,

Sara

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 10, 2002 at 8:34:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria in reading what you reply to people who are making very obvious jokes and you in turn taking them seriously I’d say you are humor impaired and have no sense of humor. This isn’t to insult you, only to make a observation.

Vector is a teenager who was making a wiseass response to Patrick being very articulate. He’s also a teenager which gives him more slack and if you’ve made it to the age of 42 without knowing that this is the way that men often talk about women when they’re talking to other men, I don’t know what to tell you except go buy a book about how men think.

On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 07:44:14 -0700 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
I’ve always been bad at getting jokes,

AND even so, when I joke I do not refer to men as pricks as a whole
Brett.
The inference from this little comment is that we are pussies – i.e
that is
ALL we r. Now then, if that is the way that Vector sees gals/women,
he’s a
teenager, so…

but then again, perhaps a joke is not supposed to be taken SOoooo
seriously.

andria

P.S: Brett, U have any problems with women who stand up for themselves?!

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Chris, R u asthmatic too?
Date: October 10, 2002 at 1:10:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:37 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Chris, R u asthmatic too?

<<Dear all, (I’m not sure if this is a convo between Chris and Jon or whomever,) but i guess this is less important than what is being said here…maybe.
Anyways, just to say that I recently discovered Ephedrine over the counter as a diet pill; now look b4 any of U get weird ideas about me, I am fat but I am not into taking drugs to get smaller. HOWEVER, i discovered the most wonderful thing about this med – IT HELPS ME BREATHE. IT HELPS ME BREATHE. IT HELPS ME BREATHE. Er, think I’ve made my point!>>>>>>
It’s a bronchiodilator, meaning it makes the tubes that run your lungs wider, so that more air gets through. That’s what the Chinese found out about ephedra way back when, and that’s why a synthetic derivative of it is used in asthma medications. Pot’s a bronchiodilator too, by the way. I’m not asthmatic, but I did enjoy the feeling of clear breathing when I let myself get addicted to that stuff for awhile.

>>>I have been an asthmatic since 1964, almost all my life. I was given pure adrenalin when i was wee, and have taken huge amounts of other drugs – including steroids – to keep me alive for all these years. In July 2000, Mar 2001 and Aug 2002, I nearly died from asthma attacks… this has not happened to me since I was a little gal; i’m not sure what life/body stresses caused these nr death experiences, but I do know that this ephedrine works well for me, AND I don’t have to take any of the steroid (or hardly any,) anymore. Steroids have several side-ffects which are nasty, one of which, I believe is, osteoporosis in women of my age and upwatds..(thinning of the bones.)
And Eph. is psychoactive and addictive, so then I had to do a harm reduction evaluation on myself: could i cope with a little bit of addiction, which gives me energy (desp. needed) and keeps my breathing going, even if i’m readdicted AND it has a huge financial cost.>>>>>

Well, whatever addiction you may suffer from it will not be nearly as strong as some other addictions out there. It was mostly psychological with me; it was that energy that I loved from it. John mentioned trying synephrine to get the same effect. I don’t know much about that one. I always thought the whole herb, ephedra, was more effective and better for my body than the synthetic derivative, ephedrine. I think it was John who said that ephedrine is not synthetic because it’s simply the derived component of the very thing that makes ephedra powerful. But if you derive it in a lab, I’ve always called that synthetic. Just a difference of opinion. Doesn’t really matter, I suppose. It depends on the person, obviously, as to whether one thing will work better than another. To get really high quality ephedra, you’ve got to pay maybe 4 times more than you do for a typical bottle of ephedrine. I found by just going to an herb shop and buying ephedra it was never as potent as what I’d find online.

My doc was opposed completely, but since she has been so neglectful of me, who cares? She didn’t even wanna hear that it was helping me to breathe without all the junk-meds she was giving me… and it is NOT contraindicted with any other meds I take for other things.
[1 pharmaceutical co V another – that’s all.]
IMPORTANT thing is that I NEVER take more than 80mgs of Eph/day – so controlled addiction, or what is more commonly known as responsible self-medication. TG it’s legal!

Yes, it is important not to go overboard. Taking too much is the number one rule not to break, when it comes to many things people can ingest. That’s where I ran into great trouble with ephedrine. Taking too much. Trust me, you don’t want day-long stomach acid and gagging. Sounds like you’re in control of it.

Chris

—————————————————–

Am really appreciating all the e-s about intelligence and emotion and what they are. Learning tons from y’all as usual

Thanx a million

Love andria

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, ElGrekkko wrote:
> >
> > > Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two thousand
> > > years for the same thing.
> >
> >
> > I’ve always had a very bad reaction to ephedrine, i get very shaky and
> > anxious. the odd thing is that i tolerate amphetamines and cocaine fine,
> > which seems bizarre to me since they are stronger stimulants.
> >
> > i also have no problem with pseudoephedrine…
>
>
> Ok, one more time. I am not talking about ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine.
> These are synthetic derivatives of the actual herb, the plant called
> Ephedra. This is a plant, like pot, like a carrot, like Valerian root, that
> has been used in Chinese traditional medicine for a loooooooong time. When
> you begin to fuck with such things—pardon my French—and make synthetic
> components, you are also screwing with nature’s own time-tested formula.
> Ephedrine and especially pseudo-ephedrine is a fucked-with version of
> Ephedra. Other fucked-with versions of this powerful plant are crystal meth
> and speed. You will get some nasty bodily reactions if you do too much of
> these synthetic versions. But if you spend good money to get real and good
> quality Ephedra, then you can see why humans have cherished it for so long.
> But you pay well in order to see this. www.shamanshop.net has the quality
> I’m talking about. No jitters, very pure.

No, ephedrine is a naturally occuring chemical, it is the primary
psychoactive constituent of ephedra (like morphine to opium). I experience
the shakes and anxiety whether I take the whole herb, or the
extracted ephedrine; leading me to believe that it is the ephedrine which
causes the reaction (as opposed to some other chemical found in the whole
herb).

I would imagine that the reason that pseudoephedrine doesn’t have this
effect on me is that it is less potent than ephedrine, but what confuses
the matter is that more potent stimulants (e.g. methamphetamine and
cocaine) don’t cause this reaction in me…

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] From another U advocate in London
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:42:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Oh yes, after I’d run some urine that only contained methadone under the hot
tap – <

Ahhh, but my former clinic here in the Apple took off all the hot water tap handles and valves handles too. So that was out. Plus, we had to hand the bottle, in a plastic bag, to the guy at the front desk who wore a thin plastic glove and would fondle the bottle as well as shake them up to be sure there wasn’t some cold water from the tap added, and that the piss was fresh.
What a delightful job.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: paul jackamo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] From another U advocate in London

Yeah – mandatory piss tests are a pain for everyone involved in methadone
maintanance programs.
The great irony is that an oral swab test is not only more cost effective
but it affords the treatment provider a greater degree of certainty that
opiates/etc are or are not in the system.
In my own experience at the various methadone clincs ive attended all over
the UK, over the (too many) years, few demanded to watch the urine actually
come out, especially after the first test was completed –
which left it totally open to abuse – “still doing really well, Paul” –
Oh yes, after I’d run some urine that only contained methadone under the hot
tap – (some containers now have a thermal strip to test the temprature – but
you just made sure that someone who actually follows the program is with you
in the toilets) – all bullshit junkie deceit –
but the threat of enforced detox if opiates other than methadone were found
in the system tends to make ya inventive.
Until the day arrives when the presence of any other drug is irrelevant
in terms of your continued methadone maintanance, the only reason i can see
for the continuation of urine tests is for mass spectrum analysis
or gas chromatography(?)-(is that how its spelt) to check out your body
chemistry upon intake.
Oral swabs are more humane,cheaper and more dignified – having said that,
there use would have probably resulted in a few more enforced detox’s than i
got 😉

>From: AndriaE@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [ibogaine] From another U advocate in London
>Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:28:07 EDT
>
>
>Dear ‘Raven’
>
>DELIGHTED to read yr e-mail below.
>
>I’ve been doing similar work to U for just over a decade – 6 yrs
>’officially.’
>
>Until recently, our project, the John Mordaunt Trust – A user
>Advocacy/HIV/HCV project,  had its HQs in a West London Health
>Trust/Substance Misuse Service.
>
>I presented an academic paper to the Clinical Advisory team there, and was
>given very little response (of significance) from the ‘professionals’
>there.
>Indeed, exactly what happened was the following,
>a) the pharmacologist of the ‘professsional’ team started woffling stuff in
>my direction that sounded significant but as she never explained what she
>was
>talking about it was rather difficult to know if it was sound or not,
>b) the consultant psychiatrist made a patronising comment at me, & thanked
>me
>for the paper,
>c) one of the managers challenged me to be a little less angry/sad when
>delivering an important message [definitely the most imp. bit of feedback i
>got] and
>d)the auditor of the service FINALLY lept into support me in saying,
>”Andria
>is simply asking us to consider how humiliating/degrading this ongoing
>practise is to our patients and that there ARE cheaper and more humane ways
>to access the same information.”
>
>That was 18 months ago; I wrote to the consultant shrink a few months ago
>to
>see how far they’d come with changing over to a less invasive testing
>protocol, and he didn’t write back.. neither did the manager of the
>service.
>Meanwhile that main manager, a woman whom I personally like a lot has been
>angry/hurt with me that I do not advertise her drug service on the back of
>the Users Voice..saw her 2 days ago, and she still was.
>
>Don’t they get it? I WILL NEVER IN ANY way support such a disgusting and
>useless procedure against my peers UNLESS it is being used in [heroin
>protocols] – & even then there are better ways to do it
>
>SOLIDARITY always
>
>andria mordaunt
>
>
>
>
>
>This sounds borderline criminal. The new regulations specifically address
>the
>issue of obtaining UAâ?Ts in a non-degrading manner.  You might want to
>organize and form a patient advocacy group, and/or contact state
>authoritiesâ?¦
>put up a ruckus til it stinketh to high heaven.  Our clinic used to do
>observed UAâ?Ts, and our clinical director didnâ?Tt have any problem with
>people
>having to â?odrop trouâ? all the way to their ankles (for men suspected of
>diverting) and having women squat instead of sitting so the nurses could
>observe the stream.  Despite my complaining and pointing out the new regs
>on
>obtaining specimens in a non-degrading way, she and the nurses just
>didnâ?Tt
>see it.  Once I did some homework, the alternate approach of obtaining Oral
>Mucosa specimens was found to be about the same price (actually a bit
>cheaperâ?¦
>around $9 per specimen), they responded to the $$$ incentive and the
>â?oless
>hassle for me,� approach.
>
>
>
>The oral swab (thru Bendiner & Schlesinger) would solve problems 1 and 2.
>Not providing medication for inability to provide a UA has GOT to be
>illegal.
>Organize. Bitch and complain.  This is absolutely inhumane.
>
>
>
>#3â?¦youâ?Tve got a better way of it than we in this area.  We test for THC
>as
>well. But positives result in automatic loss of TH privilegesâ?¦then the
>person
>has to re-earn their former #  of THâ?Ts.  After months of pointing out how
>screwed up this wasâ?¦especially in light of the first test results being
>immunoassayâ?¦I finally managed to win over the staff to allow people to
>hold
>on to medication while the GC/MS was being done on the specimen. This buys
>them another week or two (and has come back negative in a number of
>instances)
>
>
>
>#4 sounds pretty typical of most clinics.  I advocated for, and actually
>got,
>a â?oWall of Remembranceâ? bulletin board, for people to memorialize
>people who
>suffer from addiction that passed away (for whatever reason).  First Name
>and
>Last initial only for confidentiality reasons, or Obituaries, with a
>statement at the bottom of the board indicating that those posted have
>simply
>passed away and were not necessarily a drug user or a former patient at the
>clinic.
>
>
>
>#5â?¦If run the right wayâ?¦and clinical staff members in said programs
>would
>recognize their role as one of helping people reclaim their lives, and
>understand the neurological changes that take place due to long-term opiate
>use, things can change for the better.  Unfortunately, there are too many
>people working in methadone programs who are biased against the
>â?oscumbagsâ?
>that they are there to help and merely see themselves as an extension of
>law
>enforcement as opposed to TREATMENT PROFESSIONALS, and get caught up in the
>drama of playing â?ocat and mouse.â?
>
>
>
>I highly encourage you to pursue patient advocacy. Likewise, a read through
>the new regs, and a few phone calls to state methadone authorities.
>
>
>
>Thanks for the input, and good luck in the battle against ignorance.
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Chris, R u asthmatic too?
Date: October 9, 2002 at 6:36:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria,

As other people on this list have mentioned, you might want to try using
the whole herb extract as opposed to the pure compound. A standardised
extract is usually best.

You might also want to look into synephrine, an alkaloid found in bitter
orange that is similar to ephedrine, but slightly less potent, and so less
addictive.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
Linux. It does a PC good.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] recent pkd thread on another list
Date: October 9, 2002 at 5:17:31 PM EDT
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happens right after ibogaine?
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
“Any system of liberation works only once,for each individual”.
if anyone has a copy of “zen without zen masters” on falcon press they can find the proper quote which i have probably fucked up – but you get the gist –
patrick is absolutely spot on, take what you find useful and actually checks out in the light of your own experience and throw away what doesn’t.
the MAP(any formalised ideology,or more charitably, any methodology
that purports to have THE ANSWER) IS NOT the TERRITORY(the actual lived experience of freedom from addiction) as General Semantics never tires of pointing out, with good reason.
Some maps/models/masks are more useful than others, just be wary of the ones that have all the answers and remember, some approaches may work for you at one time and be completely useless at others – dont throw the baby out with the bathwater as they say – example : i spent six months in a phoenix house over here in the UK engaged in intensive transactional analysis therapy – delving into my primary belief programming – i came out and promptly relapsed within a week – but the stuff i learned about myself was so fucking useful, especially in making sense of the contents of my two ibogaine experiences. – so don’t disregard anything – a guy i know goes to NA once a month to “dump his shit” as he puts it and gets on with his life the rest of the time – it works for him, so who am i to judge.
Its been a week since my second ibogaine treatment and my strategy for staying opiate/cocaine free this time around involves listening to lots of detroit techno,staying clear of my friends who are still addicted,go swimming,ingest lots of melatonin, dlpa and choline/b complex vitamins,look after my neglected cat and re-read the works of robert anton wilson/john c.lilly/christopher Hyatt/burroughs “the job” and actually do the brain change exercises they suggest and most importantly as the master of neurologic, aliester crowley said :”do not lust after results”.the process is everything.
I’ll keep you posted of my progress.

Read any P. K. Dick? Sounds like the writers yr into are in that zone.

Dana/cnw
———-

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
X-Originating-IP: [213.122.132.135]
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Bcc:
Subject: have you read any PKD ?
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 15:09:44 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2002 15:09:44.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBF82EE0:01C26EDC]
Status:

Hi Dana
Yeah!-like a lot of us, i was a sci-fi kiddie – the first book i read was a scanner darkly when i was twelve, which given the content of the book, was quite prophetic on retrospect.
Valis remains my favourite,especially the excerpts from the exegesis, (though i have still to read the Sutin book)
I’ve been meaning to write to you for a long time to thank you,paul and the whole Staten Island crew for putting together the ibogaine story, without getting all emotional and gushing,it has saved my life, or rather, it has given me the chance to save my life.
I was addicted to heroin/methadone/crack for ten years.Just before my life hit rock bottom four years ago and i ended up homeless, begging on the streets of London, a friend gave me a copy of the Ibogaine Story to read.I carried that book around for nearly three years and i never lost it (the only thing i didn’t lose!).
I read and re-read it – the valis/gnostic stuff especially – I “knew” that the book was a strange attractor for my first ibogaine experience ten months ago – just as i knew that the experience ten months ago was
rippling back in time to the point at which i first became aware of ibogaine.(in Goethe’s sense that future events cast their shadow back into the past). I never doubted that i would one day take ibogaine and it would free me, which begging daily with no financial support was quite a leap of faith.I had my second treatment eight days ago and it has given me a clarity of vision i didn’t think possible.(the first treatment taught me not to view ibogaine as a quick techno-fix for the soul, but as a co-participant in the creation of a self beyond your present self),ibogaine opens the door, but you still need to walk through it, i think it sometimes needs a second treatment to realise this.
Anyway, onto the interesting shit :
In an old email you sent to mindvox, you used the phrase “egyptian bwiti” – but no context(it was a very short mail) – this blew my mind.
The content of my first ibogaine experience was overwhelmingly “African”
The iboga entity appeared first in the form of the west african trickster god complete with a spear in his left hand – what the voodou system calls “Carfax/Carrefour” – guardian of the crossroads, the gates between the phenomenal world of illusion and hyperspace, between the conscious/subconscious,universe A and universe B. An entity that Dr.John Dee and Crowley call Choronzon (the guardian of the abyss)- and the egyptian’s called Set/Horus (one existing through the other).
In its second form, it appeared as a giant iboga plant rooted in the axis mundi of a jupiter like planet – i lamely asked it “whats it like been a plant,doesn’t it get boring stuck in one place” – at this i got a resounding NO! – and its root system shot out to every point on the surface, indicating, like the mushroom,the non-local nature of plant consciousness.
Anyway, i digress, but the point is, apart from all this weird african shit, the other predominant vision was of me standing before a giant egyptian pyramid,clad in gold, complete with the eye of horus/sirius
on its capstone (unlike the masonic/illuminati depiction, the capstone was joined) – and more than this, the eye was emmiting a bright pink light!(yeah, i know..).
So, it was strange, all this African stuff and then this Egyptian pyramid..and then, the ibogaine synchronicity matrix directed me towards certain texts:
In a book by Kenneth Grant called “Cults of the Shadow” utilising the theories of Gerald Massey(who did some great stuff on gnosticism at the turn of the century – theres a site with all his lectures on it).
Anyway, they posit the theory that the whole western system of magick
occult tradition came from West Africa! and migrated to Egypt/Chaldea/Ur
etc and then was transmitted through the early gnostic traditions onto the tantric traditions of India – you can also see the continuation of the tradition through the Knights Templar/Cathars as you say in the ibogaine story through the Spanish Kabbalists, through the Alchemists,
Rosicrucians right up to the Golden Dawn and the A.A.
The common theme is the secret sacrament and the road map for its use – the tree of life – and as i say, massey and grant trace the development of the Kabbalistic tree of life to its origins in West Africa – they dont mention the identity of the sacrament – mmm, a plant from West Africa that is sacred – i wonder!
Other texts i “found” relating to this :
1) “The Stargate Conspiracy” – Lynn Barber and Clive Prince who use the theories of Jeremy Narby (The Cosmic Serpent) they suggest that the egyptians had some kind of ayauascha (was that iboga?),that allowed them to gain knowledge to build the pyramids – Narby suggests that harmaline and dmt allow us to access our dna and the records encoded – PKD’s “anamnesis” theory in effect.
2)This directly relates to Dennis and Terrence Mckenna’s stuff in “the invisible landscape” that suggests harmaline through a process of “hyper-carbolation” and “electron spin ressonance” transforms the dna into a solid state matrix(valis?) and transforms the self into a transciever of gnostic revelation.
3) and then i re-read Robert Temple’s “The Sirius Mystery”, he suggests that the Dogon knowledge of “sirius” came from the egyptians and travelled down to the Dogon tribe in West Africa(and yeah,some anthropologists say that the sirius stuff was all made up,that the dogon have no Knowledge) but what if its the other way around – what if the knowledge of Sirius came first from West Africa via iboga and got transmitted upwards to the egyptians – it would certainly be funny, if we could show that the whole western veneration of sirius (the blazing star of masonry and “the sun behind the sun” of western occultism) came originally from knowledge gained by tripping on iboga in west africa.
And!- isnt it interesting that the pineal gland/the anja chackra – identified first according to Grant by the west african magickal tradition is the only site of norharman production-im sure youve thought about that.
Anyway, im going to use the clean time ive got to put all these strands into some coherent form – i get the feeling that the iboga entity wants me to, plus it’ll keep me busy.
Anyway, back to the original question – what did you mean by the “egyptian bwiti”!

take care

paul
The theory that iboga was the secret sacrament involved in the initiation of Pharoahs is supported by the work of Giorgio Samorini–based on inferences from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the appearance of pygmies on temple friezes, among other things. I have never seen any of his stuff in English, so you’d have to check it out in the original Italian.

Dana/cnw
———
From: AndriaE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:14:46 EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Andria back on line at AOL
Status:
Andria says:  Just wanted to respond to this one from Chris’ – with its usual eloquence and beauty… (C below)

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’  This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have
found you’re own daimos, it opens up somekind of doorway through which all
the universe’s energies, or whatever you’d like to call it, comes rushing
through your mind. Anyone who has been reborn can testify to this; it’s an
energy rush that suddenly gives you new sites, new views, scores of new
thought dimensions. His theory is that anyone who finds this daimos,
through ibogaine, drugs, their own soul-searching, whatever, also finds
greater intelligence. I always think of those singers who people say have a
lot of soul, when I think of this definition. You don’t see great singers
of soul sitting around writing books on fuzzy logic. But you listen to
them, and hear that daimos coming out of them, and their way of singing
reaches parts of your mind that have been touched and that you never even
knew were there.

I guess this is very much a sceptical drug users perspective, but what U describe above, I usually put down to natural chemicals running around my body. If I had the time to prove myself wrong though, I’d be really happy
andria
———
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Bcc:
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 12:13:40 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2002 12:13:41.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E554C40:01C26F8D]
Subject: [ibogaine] speculations on the “daimos”
Status:

Yes i agree
the “daimos” does have a neuro-chemical basis (im speculating here but my guess is that its partly accessed through the nmda/kappa circuit – especially in the light of salvia divinorum acting as a kappa antagonist). Consciousness is an emergent property of all self-organizing systems after a certain level of complexity has been reached, but can it be reduced to it – no way – get down to the quantum level of biological/physical organization and a doorway suddenly appears that seems to have all the properties of consciousness itself –
the point of non-locality where things get “spooky” as einstein said.

its all down to an aesthetic choice not an either/or one.
for some people this entity/mode of consciousness comes from “without” as a god/plant entity/angelic being/daemon/disembodied intelligence/the overmind/gaia/alien other/valis/ecco” and for some it comes from “within” as “the higher self”,the individuated self/the self-actualised self/the self-meta programmer.
In the end, it matters little what explanatory principle we invoke, its what we do with the knowledge we gain from this special mode of consciousness, does it allow us to treat ourselves and others with more compassion and love ? – because if not, it matters not how “it” chooses to present itself : as a disembodied voice/as an “entity”, or as a field of information.

Personally i agree with the irish guy, who when asked “do you believe in fairies?” – replied “no i do not,but i doubt whether they believe in me either.”

paul
——-

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:06:49 EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Spirit
Status:
Chris says

>>i believe that when you have these thoughts of people that have passed, or
are even alive, it means that they are there with you–every time they come
to your mind or you see some weird object or name on a sign that reminds
you of them.

chris

Andria responds

Yoh Chris, connected as ever. Recently, I had a few moments of UTTER despair. During one of them, I reached out to John (my dead hubby) for help. He rushed in and said, “I’m sending U a thousand angels to surround U and keep U safe from the darkness.” It was phenomenal. I cried/sobbed hard, my body shaking with the torso-jolts, and within an hour, I was chilled and asleep (again.)

Cool!

Andria x

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] speculations on the “daimos”
Date: October 9, 2002 at 3:01:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, its a kappa agonist.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

pauljackamo@hotmail.com 10/09/02 08:13AM >>>
Yes i agree
the “daimos” does have a neuro-chemical basis (im speculating here but
my
guess is that its partly accessed through the nmda/kappa circuit –
especially in the light of salvia divinorum acting as a kappa
antagonist).
Consciousness is an emergent property of all self-organizing systems
after a
certain level of complexity has been reached, but can it be reduced to
it –
no way – get down to the quantum level of biological/physical
organization
and a doorway suddenly appears that seems to have all the properties of

consciousness itself –
the point of non-locality where things get “spooky” as einstein said.

its all down to an aesthetic choice not an either/or one.
for some people this entity/mode of consciousness comes from “without”
as a
god/plant entity/angelic being/daemon/disembodied intelligence/the
overmind/gaia/alien other/valis/ecco” and for some it comes from
“within” as
“the higher self”,the individuated self/the self-actualised self/the
self-meta programmer.
In the end, it matters little what explanatory principle we invoke, its
what
we do with the knowledge we gain from this special mode of
consciousness,
does it allow us to treat ourselves and others with more compassion and
love
? – because if not, it matters not how “it” chooses to present itself :
as a
disembodied voice/as an “entity”, or as a field of information.

Personally i agree with the irish guy, who when asked “do you believe
in
fairies?” – replied “no i do not,but i doubt whether they believe in me

either.”

paul

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] UROD
Date: October 9, 2002 at 1:23:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Fetherston, James” <James.Fetherston@justice.vic.gov.au>
Subject:  UPDATE> Naltrexone
Status:

Content-Type: text/html;

The West Australian
March 1 2001
Author: Liz Tickner

HEROIN HIT

UNTREATED heroin addicts were less likely to die than those who dropped out
of Perth doctor George O’Neil’s naltrexone program, a study has found.

The two-year study of 3617 WA heroin addicts by psychiatrist James
Fellows-Smith and general practitioner John Edwards found that addicts on
the streets had a one in 100 chance of dying.

Addicts prescribed naltrexone had a one in 61 chance of dying while those
prescribed methadone had a mortality rate of one in 458.

The study found that heroin overdose in combination with other central
nervous system depressants was the main cause of death in the naltrexone and
methadone test groups.

Naltrexone blocks the cravings for heroin. Dr Fellows-Smith said naltrexone
patients risked death when they stopped treatment suddenly. Most deaths in
the naltrexone test group occurred within a month of ceasing treatment.

“The majority relapse on to heroin and become highly vulnerable to
overdose,” Dr Fellows-Smith said. “The most likely cause of this significant
and increased death rate for naltrexone patients is that the drug
(naltrexone) lowers their tolerance for opiates.”

Even while on the naltrexone program, patients tended to use a cocktail of
other drugs, including amphetamines and tranquillisers.

Their use of a mixture of drugs with heroin could prove fatal when they
stopped using naltrexone, he said.

Patients remained on the naltrexone program for an average of three months
and 31 per cent were readmitted to the program. Methadone patients stayed on
the program for an average of six months and 45 per cent were readmitted.

Dr O’Neil said he was aware of the research and confirmed there had been 60
to 70 deaths among his patients since he began treating heroin addicts with
naltrexone 3 1/2,* years ago.

“Naltrexone is dangerous if you don’t do it properly,” he said. Naltrexone
worked 100 per cent of the time but the danger of dying from a drug overdose
when patients dropped off the program was real.

It was crucial that naltrexone patients had the backup of carers, either
family or friends, who would crush and administer the tablets and monitor
urine. In the past six months, 200 addicts who did not have the backup of
carers had been fitted with naltrexone implants.

Dr Fellows-Smith said that, given the high use of naltrexone treatment in
WA, doctors prescribing naltrexone would need to consider whether its use
could be justified.

“Certainly all patients on naltrexone and their families need to be warned
as to the life-threatening risks associated with its use,” he said.

James Fetherston
Research Officer / Counsellor
Next Step Specialist Drug and Alcohol Services
PO Box 126, Mt. Lawley WA 6929
Tel: (08) 9370 0313 Fax: (08) 9272 6605
james.fetherston@health.wa.gov.au

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 9, 2002 at 12:22:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
&gt; I’ve always been bad at getting jokes,
&gt;
&gt; AND even so, when I joke I do not refer to men as
&gt; pricks as a whole Brett.
&gt; The inference from this little comment is that we
&gt; are pussies – i.e that is
&gt; ALL we r. Now then, if that is the way that
Vector
&gt; sees gals/women, he’s a
&gt; teenager, so…
&gt;
&gt; but then again, perhaps a joke is not supposed to
be
&gt; taken SOoooo seriously.

YOu are a dimension or two off.

&gt;
&gt; andria
&gt;
&gt; P.S: Brett, U have any problems with women who
stand
&gt; up for themselves?!
&gt;

No, but I do seriously question putting that much
energy into anything that one does not want to feed.
It could be anything, the I’m black, I’m a WOMAN, I am
in RECOVERY. So lets focus all the energy I have on
addiction and NOT GETTING HIGH, on all the wrongs
(true or not) about being black or we know what all
those men want…  To me, it is counter-productive,
perpetuating any issue, feeding them, even creating
them. Want to laugh at it, that is another matter
(though it obviously pisses you off) like we sometimes
laugh at our addiction. Nothing serious about it till
you made it so.

Now, where is that woman of mine, I left my clothes on
the floor and she didn’t clean it up – THAT BITCH!
Maybe I will beat her when she gets home. She is
smaller and weaker than I am, GOD must have intended
it that way or he wouldn’t have made all men bigger,
stronger and meaner (not to mention ass-holes – which
in fact, some are).

Truth is we never fight/argue and yes I say LOTS OF
THINGS in jest, eg spoofing something. All in fun IMO
but seems (to you) I am putting something evil into
the Universe – which is all you baby, not me.

Bret

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 9, 2002 at 10:44:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve always been bad at getting jokes,

AND even so, when I joke I do not refer to men as pricks as a whole Brett. The inference from this little comment is that we are pussies – i.e that is ALL we r. Now then, if that is the way that Vector sees gals/women, he’s a teenager, so…

but then again, perhaps a joke is not supposed to be taken SOoooo seriously.

andria

P.S: Brett, U have any problems with women who stand up for themselves?!

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Comments about treatment protocols inc. 12-steppy ones
Date: October 9, 2002 at 10:30:09 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Rick, y’all

Andria from London here – good morning!

Interesting analogy – 12 steps/their proponents and the promotion of computer software.

‘Listening’ to you all sharing your experiences of treatment, recovery programs and more, I find myself deep in thought AGAIN!

AND I have wanted to write a LONG article about ‘recovery’ in the Users Voice for a very long time. 2 b quite honest, I 1st want to write an article that says the 12 steps are fine but their perversion by profit-making entrepreneurs, not to mention the monopoly the Minnessotta method has on the American treatment system is loopy!

PLEASE COULD WE ALL NOT THROW THE BABIES OUT WITH THE BATHWATER. Almost everybody on this list has, at some point expressed that ‘Horses for courses’ be our best approach to promoting treatment to fellow ex/current addict users.

We are all different TG! And therefore, we all have different needs and desires no? my main problem with most 12-step programs is that most people tend not to follow the steps that much at all. It’s kinda like going to church and then going and shagging yr best friends lover! BS!! in other words, (& even more worldly hypocrisy.)

Anyways, we are human and therefore we err, but I’m almost certain that slagging off treatment protocols on a list set up for people still suffering from/experiencing addiction issues is probably NOT the best idea. Now and then, I will pop into NA just to be grounded, humbled and CONNECTED when I lose the plot again..
…Let’s face it, it’s always there, it’s cheap/free, they give u nice biscuits and tea and if U r lucky U will get to hear what the steps mean, not to mention see/meet a few other wonderful ex/current drug users. Sounds cool to me.. or is it all the people that tell us what to do that piss us off? Speaking for myself -YES!

And hey, i am 42 yrs old for crying out loud; if i ain’t learnt how to live yet, when?

Love and solidarity.
In and out of LIFE-recovery

andria xox

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)
Date: October 9, 2002 at 10:27:01 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Rick, y’all

Andria from London here – good morning!

Interesting analogy – 12 steps/their proponents and the promotion of computer software.

‘Listening’ to you all sharing your experiences of treatment, recovery programs and more, I find myself deep in thought AGAIN!

AND I have wanted to write a LONG article about ‘recovery’ in the Users Voice for a very long time. 2 b quite honest, I 1st want to write an article that says the 12 steps are fine but their perversion by profit-making entrepreneurs, not to mention the monopoly the Minnessotta method has on the American treatment system is loopy!

PLEASE COULD WE ALL NOT THROW THE BABIES OUT WITH THE BATHWATER. Almost everybody on this list has, at some point expressed that ‘Horses for courses’ be our best approach to promoting treatment to fellow ex/current addict users.

We are all different TG! And therefore, we all have different needs and desires no? my main problem with most 12-step programs is that most people tend not to follow the steps that much at all. It’s kinda like going to church and then going and shagging yr best friends lover! BS!! in other words, (& even more worldly hypocrisy.)

Anyways, we are human and therefore we err, but I’m almost certain that slagging off treatment protocols on a list set up for people still suffering from/experiencing addiction issues is probably NOT the best idea. Now and then, I will pop into NA just to be grounded, humbled and CONNECTED when I lose the plot again..
…Let’s face it, it’s always there, it’s cheap/free, they give u nice biscuits and tea and if U r lucky U will get to hear what the steps mean, not to mention see/meet a few other wonderful ex/current drug users. Sounds cool to me.. or is it all the people that tell us what to do that piss us off? Speaking for myself -YES!

And hey, i am 42 yrs old for crying out loud; if i ain’t learnt how to live yet, when?

Love and solidarity.
In and out of LIFE-recovery

andria xox

Gimme the damned gold star!

Haven’t you heard…NA and AA are great! They’re the ONLY WAY…for
some folks.  They really believe it because it is the only way for them
and it works. So they promote it…largely because the whole
drug-treatment field was founded upon Bill W., AA, NA, the 12-steps, and
a bunch of lay-recovery “experts.”  Other approaches are the
competitors…who sell junk, of course, because they “know” their
product is the only one that works.

The “market,”  so to speak, is bereft of any major competitors because
“This is the way,” is the accepted mantra that convinces people to go
“buy” the product.  Sort of like the Microsoft machine.  They’re the big
boy…they make half-way decent JUNK.  Lots of people love it. It’s
still junk.  People are convinced that this junk is the only thing they
can slap on their machine…and for many, this is likely true…so for
them, it works great, and they find great benefit therein. It’s a
market-whore.  For the majority who buy their junk and put it on their
computers, it meets the need very well.  Never mind the blue screen of
death that requires you to reboot once or twice per day.  For stability,
security, etc., go with Sun Microsystems or some other alternative.  The
Microsoft grunt is going to tell you, go with W2K…hold off on
XP…because it works pretty good for the most part.  They aren’t likely
to pull out the Sun catalog and recommend you buy someone elses product.
They work for the Empire, and the Empire works for them.

Speaking of data, a review of my caseload shows that of my 46 folks, 23
of them have been stable and drug-free for 3 or more years.  Only 2 or 3
of them go to NA or 12-step meetings.

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] From another U advocate in London
Date: October 9, 2002 at 10:05:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah – mandatory piss tests are a pain for everyone involved in methadone maintanance programs.
The great irony is that an oral swab test is not only more cost effective but it affords the treatment provider a greater degree of certainty that opiates/etc are or are not in the system.
In my own experience at the various methadone clincs ive attended all over the UK, over the (too many) years, few demanded to watch the urine actually come out, especially after the first test was completed –
which left it totally open to abuse – “still doing really well, Paul” –
Oh yes, after I’d run some urine that only contained methadone under the hot tap – (some containers now have a thermal strip to test the temprature – but you just made sure that someone who actually follows the program is with you in the toilets) – all bullshit junkie deceit –
but the threat of enforced detox if opiates other than methadone were found in the system tends to make ya inventive.
Until the day arrives when the presence of any other drug is irrelevant
in terms of your continued methadone maintanance, the only reason i can see for the continuation of urine tests is for mass spectrum analysis
or gas chromatography(?)-(is that how its spelt) to check out your body chemistry upon intake.
Oral swabs are more humane,cheaper and more dignified – having said that, there use would have probably resulted in a few more enforced detox’s than i got 😉

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] From another U advocate in London
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:28:07 EDT

Dear ‘Raven’

DELIGHTED to read yr e-mail below.

I’ve been doing similar work to U for just over a decade – 6 yrs
‘officially.’

Until recently, our project, the John Mordaunt Trust – A user
Advocacy/HIV/HCV project,  had its HQs in a West London Health
Trust/Substance Misuse Service.

I presented an academic paper to the Clinical Advisory team there, and was
given very little response (of significance) from the ‘professionals’ there.
Indeed, exactly what happened was the following,
a) the pharmacologist of the ‘professsional’ team started woffling stuff in
my direction that sounded significant but as she never explained what she was
talking about it was rather difficult to know if it was sound or not,
b) the consultant psychiatrist made a patronising comment at me, & thanked me
for the paper,
c) one of the managers challenged me to be a little less angry/sad when
delivering an important message [definitely the most imp. bit of feedback i
got] and
d)the auditor of the service FINALLY lept into support me in saying, “Andria
is simply asking us to consider how humiliating/degrading this ongoing
practise is to our patients and that there ARE cheaper and more humane ways
to access the same information.”

That was 18 months ago; I wrote to the consultant shrink a few months ago to
see how far they’d come with changing over to a less invasive testing
protocol, and he didn’t write back.. neither did the manager of the service.
Meanwhile that main manager, a woman whom I personally like a lot has been
angry/hurt with me that I do not advertise her drug service on the back of
the Users Voice..saw her 2 days ago, and she still was.

Don’t they get it? I WILL NEVER IN ANY way support such a disgusting and
useless procedure against my peers UNLESS it is being used in [heroin
protocols] – & even then there are better ways to do it

SOLIDARITY always

andria mordaunt

This sounds borderline criminal. The new regulations specifically address the
issue of obtaining UA’s in a non-degrading manner.  You might want to
organize and form a patient advocacy group, and/or contact state authorities…
put up a ruckus til it stinketh to high heaven.  Our clinic used to do
observed UA’s, and our clinical director didn’t have any problem with people
having to “drop trou” all the way to their ankles (for men suspected of
diverting) and having women squat instead of sitting so the nurses could
observe the stream.  Despite my complaining and pointing out the new regs on
obtaining specimens in a non-degrading way, she and the nurses just didn’t
see it.  Once I did some homework, the alternate approach of obtaining Oral
Mucosa specimens was found to be about the same price (actually a bit cheaper…
around $9 per specimen), they responded to the $$$ incentive and the “less
hassle for me,” approach.

The oral swab (thru Bendiner & Schlesinger) would solve problems 1 and 2.
Not providing medication for inability to provide a UA has GOT to be illegal.
Organize. Bitch and complain.  This is absolutely inhumane.

#3…you’ve got a better way of it than we in this area.  We test for THC as
well. But positives result in automatic loss of TH privileges…then the person
has to re-earn their former #  of TH’s.  After months of pointing out how
screwed up this was…especially in light of the first test results being
immunoassay…I finally managed to win over the staff to allow people to hold
on to medication while the GC/MS was being done on the specimen. This buys
them another week or two (and has come back negative in a number of
instances)

#4 sounds pretty typical of most clinics.  I advocated for, and actually got,
a “Wall of Remembrance” bulletin board, for people to memorialize people who
suffer from addiction that passed away (for whatever reason).  First Name and
Last initial only for confidentiality reasons, or Obituaries, with a
statement at the bottom of the board indicating that those posted have simply
passed away and were not necessarily a drug user or a former patient at the
clinic.

#5…If run the right way…and clinical staff members in said programs would
recognize their role as one of helping people reclaim their lives, and
understand the neurological changes that take place due to long-term opiate
use, things can change for the better.  Unfortunately, there are too many
people working in methadone programs who are biased against the “scumbags”
that they are there to help and merely see themselves as an extension of law
enforcement as opposed to TREATMENT PROFESSIONALS, and get caught up in the
drama of playing “cat and mouse.”

I highly encourage you to pursue patient advocacy. Likewise, a read through
the new regs, and a few phone calls to state methadone authorities.

Thanks for the input, and good luck in the battle against ignorance.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Are you Methadone Experienced?
Date: October 9, 2002 at 9:59:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston said “Hang on a cotton-picking second here…”

>> Andria replies “hee-hee, gigglytupoo!” That is SUCH a great expression, and reading it has been the most uplifting thing of my day.! (Were U born in the cotton-picking south PP?)

luv andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Can I use this quote for a future Users Voice?
Date: October 9, 2002 at 9:49:20 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear ? Please write to me personally. I was struck by this comment and its veracity. I am the editor of a little user Mag in England (with international distribution) and i was wondering if we could use this quote in a future edition of the mag, with your name crediting it?

Please let me know when U have a minute

andria

it is not the result of heroin use but the WOD.

I think people like to confuse people they admire with the drugs they do. Doing heroin will not make you the next keith richards or william burroughs. doing heroin then doing ibogaine and lsd will not make you the next patrick 😉

doing all those things will only make you dead, in prison, or having nervous breakdown. If you very lucky maybe Kurt Cobain before all that happens 😉

Strength and hope to all of us who fight this fight.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Life After Heroin? Absolutely Erica
Date: October 9, 2002 at 9:42:03 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Erica

Do not let Patrick fool U; he’s a wise and wonderful man; he just has a very colourful way of describing life, the universe and everything. (Well that’s how I see it anyways)

I’m writing to you from my home in London. I have done Ibogaine, but as it happens it wasn’ t that which has assisted me to stay off H for the last 9 & a quarter yrs..It was sheer desire to have a better life, swimming, reconnecting with my family and friends in a real way (letting go of fear, guilt and rage) not to mention my work which is my raison d’etre since the death of my gorgeous and brilliant hubby (to AIDS) in 1995.

On the other hand, I took Ibogaine 2 and a quarter yrs ago, and had a very extraordinary experience. To keep it brief, the aftermath is what helped me enormously, and stopped me falling off the rails again – that is, I was given this wonderful feeling of calm, loving and serenity.

U r young and lucid; i can ‘see’ that from the e-mail u sent us here. It sounds like U have every chance of doing well with the Ibogaine, coming off heroin and staying off.

U will need to have a few physical tests done first, e.g. a test to ensure that u have a particular enzyme that is vital to metabolise Ibogaine. Could a more senior/experienced Ibogaine guide explain this to Erica more clearly.

Wishing U all the strength, light and love towards yr successful recovery. Keep us posted on how U do.

Andria mordaunt

Hi I’ve been reading this list for a while and think this is
a great place.

I’m 25 and I’ve been doing heroin since I was 18 and lately
mostly oxy’s. I will be doing ibogaine in a month and I have
some questions for anyone who can answer please.

I have never done any drug treatment or the aftercare before
but reading what’s online in places and in this group nearly
all of you have gone through some of that or a lot of that,
but mostly none of you are doing it now to stay clean and
had bad experiences with it.

I was wondering what some of you do or did to stay clean
right after ibogaine? Should I expect it to be very hard or
does the desire to stop using just go away? I’ve read about
the last month and a half of this list and I’ve read
Patrick’s articles and writings which are like wow, do you
want to get some coffee and talk, are you single? 😉 What I
mean is you’re a really smart weirdo who’s cute and wow can
you write! I read some of it and it’s you’re writing a acid
trip, how the f**k do you do that? And where do I get
whatever drugs you’ve done! 😉

But what I mean is I’m interested and attracted by what you
are and what you say but at the same time I have to be real
and admit I have not the slightest idea what you’re talking
about most of the time.

I know some of you here are doing all that too but I’m much
more interested in knowing what happens a week after
ibogaine? a month? I’ve read enough here to believe it works
and cleans you up but then what do I do? I hate the groups,
are there any different or better groups or anything.

What I mean to say is some of you have progressed a long way
>from being on heroin and gone to much different places but
what were all of you who made it and are clean years later,
doing a week after you got off heroin and did ibogaine! And
a month after. That exactly is my question.

Thank you!

erica

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] From another U advocate in London
Date: October 9, 2002 at 9:28:07 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear ‘Raven’

DELIGHTED to read yr e-mail below.

I’ve been doing similar work to U for just over a decade – 6 yrs ‘officially.’

Until recently, our project, the John Mordaunt Trust – A user Advocacy/HIV/HCV project,  had its HQs in a West London Health Trust/Substance Misuse Service.

I presented an academic paper to the Clinical Advisory team there, and was given very little response (of significance) from the ‘professionals’ there. Indeed, exactly what happened was the following,
a) the pharmacologist of the ‘professsional’ team started woffling stuff in my direction that sounded significant but as she never explained what she was talking about it was rather difficult to know if it was sound or not,
b) the consultant psychiatrist made a patronising comment at me, & thanked me for the paper,
c) one of the managers challenged me to be a little less angry/sad when delivering an important message [definitely the most imp. bit of feedback i got] and
d)the auditor of the service FINALLY lept into support me in saying, “Andria is simply asking us to consider how humiliating/degrading this ongoing practise is to our patients and that there ARE cheaper and more humane ways to access the same information.”

That was 18 months ago; I wrote to the consultant shrink a few months ago to see how far they’d come with changing over to a less invasive testing protocol, and he didn’t write back.. neither did the manager of the service. Meanwhile that main manager, a woman whom I personally like a lot has been angry/hurt with me that I do not advertise her drug service on the back of the Users Voice..saw her 2 days ago, and she still was.

Don’t they get it? I WILL NEVER IN ANY way support such a disgusting and useless procedure against my peers UNLESS it is being used in [heroin protocols] – & even then there are better ways to do it

SOLIDARITY always

andria mordaunt

This sounds borderline criminal. The new regulations specifically address the issue of obtaining UA’s in a non-degrading manner.  You might want to organize and form a patient advocacy group, and/or contact state authorities…put up a ruckus til it stinketh to high heaven.  Our clinic used to do observed UA’s, and our clinical director didn’t have any problem with people having to “drop trou” all the way to their ankles (for men suspected of diverting) and having women squat instead of sitting so the nurses could observe the stream.  Despite my complaining and pointing out the new regs on obtaining specimens in a non-degrading way, she and the nurses just didn’t see it.  Once I did some homework, the alternate approach of obtaining Oral Mucosa specimens was found to be about the same price (actually a bit cheaper…around $9 per specimen), they responded to the $$$ incentive and the “less hassle for me,” approach.

The oral swab (thru Bendiner & Schlesinger) would solve problems 1 and 2.  Not providing medication for inability to provide a UA has GOT to be illegal. Organize. Bitch and complain.  This is absolutely inhumane.

#3…you’ve got a better way of it than we in this area.  We test for THC as well. But positives result in automatic loss of TH privileges…then the person has to re-earn their former #  of TH’s.  After months of pointing out how screwed up this was…especially in light of the first test results being immunoassay…I finally managed to win over the staff to allow people to hold on to medication while the GC/MS was being done on the specimen. This buys them another week or two (and has come back negative in a number of instances)

#4 sounds pretty typical of most clinics.  I advocated for, and actually got, a “Wall of Remembrance” bulletin board, for people to memorialize people who suffer from addiction that passed away (for whatever reason).  First Name and Last initial only for confidentiality reasons, or Obituaries, with a statement at the bottom of the board indicating that those posted have simply passed away and were not necessarily a drug user or a former patient at the clinic.

#5…If run the right way…and clinical staff members in said programs would recognize their role as one of helping people reclaim their lives, and understand the neurological changes that take place due to long-term opiate use, things can change for the better.  Unfortunately, there are too many people working in methadone programs who are biased against the “scumbags” that they are there to help and merely see themselves as an extension of law enforcement as opposed to TREATMENT PROFESSIONALS, and get caught up in the drama of playing “cat and mouse.”

I highly encourage you to pursue patient advocacy. Likewise, a read through the new regs, and a few phone calls to state methadone authorities.

Thanks for the input, and good luck in the battle against ignorance.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Andria is not a Brit!
Date: October 9, 2002 at 9:01:43 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>At the Board of Directors meeting for the National Alliance of Methadone
Advocates I was handed a copy of Andria Mordaunt’s The Users Voice, a
newsletter of current and former drug users.  In it was a CD called Going
Over which was a really slick piece of important information/presentaiton on
overdoses and also included a guided tour of cardio pulmonary resuscitation.

Every Ibogaine provider should get a copy of this CD as knowledge of cardio
pulmonary resuscitation was discussed as an issue of concern to ibogaine
providers during the editorial exchanges which resulted in the Ibogaine
Manual, First Revision, http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

>> Thanx for the acknowledgement Howard; these are the moments of life i live for.. (i know – i’m a v.sad case!?)
Just to add that is an excellent CD, and it was produced by our Dept of Health with advice from drugworkers – ex/users. Anyways, my short review in the Users Voice does compliment it, BUT also questions the sense in producing a CD, when most ofd the acutely affected and in desperate need of the info therein will not have access to a comp, let alone one with a CD-player. I guess they made it for the professionals and a few drug users in treatment then, after all… better than a slap in the moosh with a wet-discloth.

Andria can you let people know how to get copies of the CD or possibly
ibogaine providers who are interested can request the contact information or
a CD from Andria.

>> I have hundreds of them under my desk. Just e-mail me here, and or write to Andria Mordaunt, C/O Drugscope, 32-36 Loman Street, SE1 OEE (e-mail has been broken there for a week, so forget that for a while.)

Preston also had an article in the issue of The User’s Voice (#17) on the
Million Marijuana March arrests in New York during the May 2002 event.
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/  (check out the links) – Drugscope are only just beginning to get ‘radical’ on the drug-policy issue. Otoh, they have supported the John Mordaunt Trust for 5 yrs, by giving me space to do our work..
Fact: they were/are tied to govt money so had/have to tow the line until govt woke/wake up, which they have done – slightly – in the last yr, as a result of activist endeavours over a decade.. and more.

BTW, my ethnic origin is Greek Cypriot, and in many ways, I’m far more cypo than Brit; loud, rude, warm and loving!

andria x

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 9, 2002 at 8:52:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector wrote…
everything with a pussy that wears bellbottoms and
smokes pot is listening 🙂

Andria asks
Is this the way all American boys/women refer to
girls/women?

Is that the way ALL WOMEN take such statements (which
was made in jest, in case you missed it)?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill – Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] speculations on the “daimos”
Date: October 9, 2002 at 8:13:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes i agree
the “daimos” does have a neuro-chemical basis (im speculating here but my guess is that its partly accessed through the nmda/kappa circuit – especially in the light of salvia divinorum acting as a kappa antagonist). Consciousness is an emergent property of all self-organizing systems after a certain level of complexity has been reached, but can it be reduced to it – no way – get down to the quantum level of biological/physical organization and a doorway suddenly appears that seems to have all the properties of consciousness itself –
the point of non-locality where things get “spooky” as einstein said.

its all down to an aesthetic choice not an either/or one.
for some people this entity/mode of consciousness comes from “without” as a god/plant entity/angelic being/daemon/disembodied intelligence/the overmind/gaia/alien other/valis/ecco” and for some it comes from “within” as “the higher self”,the individuated self/the self-actualised self/the self-meta programmer.
In the end, it matters little what explanatory principle we invoke, its what we do with the knowledge we gain from this special mode of consciousness, does it allow us to treat ourselves and others with more compassion and love ? – because if not, it matters not how “it” chooses to present itself : as a disembodied voice/as an “entity”, or as a field of information.

Personally i agree with the irish guy, who when asked “do you believe in fairies?” – replied “no i do not,but i doubt whether they believe in me either.”

paul

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Spirit
Date: October 9, 2002 at 8:06:49 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris says

>>i believe that when you have these thoughts of people that have passed, or
are even alive, it means that they are there with you–every time they come
to your mind or you see some weird object or name on a sign that reminds
you of them.

chris

Andria responds

Yoh Chris, connected as ever. Recently, I had a few moments of UTTER despair. During one of them, I reached out to John (my dead hubby) for help. He rushed in and said, “I’m sending U a thousand angels to surround U and keep U safe from the darkness.” It was phenomenal. I cried/sobbed hard, my body shaking with the torso-jolts, and within an hour, I was chilled and asleep (again.)

Cool!

Andria x

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Bob, fanx for the song
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:55:21 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Bob

I wasn’t going to respond to this one, but i remembered that i had bought myself a little percussion instrument in Buenos Aries. I am quite willing to send it to U from London if U r still interested AND my luggage is still somewhere between Buenos Aries & London; (hope DEA?CIA?FBI aren’t routing through it. Will probably end up being framed when i’m totally innocent )

a x
I’m really angry, Andreeeee-a

(to the tune of “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina)

I’m really angry, Andreeeee-a
You’re partying down there in Argentina
You’re drinking your maté
In a lacey mantia
I’m freezing my balls off
in Massachusetts
I’m wearing three sweaters
While you’re perspiring

Send me a postcard, Andreeeee-a
I’ll be so happy when I receive it
You and your Gaucho
Holding hands en la Plaza
Palm trees and bananas
Warm breezes wafting
While I’m cursing the furnace
I’ll be coughing and sneezing

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Women demand more respect!
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:49:59 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector wrote…
everything with a pussy that wears bellbottoms and smokes pot is listening 🙂

>>Andria asks
Is this the way all American boys/women refer to girls/women?

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar]MDMA & that cute 2 yr old.. U.K story
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:44:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DEAR Fellow recoverers & Iboga discussants and researchers,

I don’t know if you’ve heard about this one yet.. but browsing through all the newspapers yesterday, I found 3 coverages of the fact that one of our famous actresses 2 yr old accidentally popped a small part of a tab of E and is perfectly fine.

I was in the ‘senior common room’ at school (place for posh VIPs, I think: i go there cos I’m trying to chat a few of them into doing a DPReform gig, and to read – it’s quiet there) Anyways, reading the articles, I burst out laughing and went into a little-gal peel of giggles and the VIP professor over there was giving me that kinda, oh-she’s-just-another-local-nut-look!

And this is an important event; the details are a little scant at the moment, but if a 2 yr old can take a little E and be fine, what does that say about MDMA after all?

Howz Karina? Anyone know?

Love andria mordaunt

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Chris, R u asthmatic too?
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:37:03 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear all, (I’m not sure if this is a convo between Chris and Jon or whomever,) but i guess this is less important than what is being said here…maybe.

Anyways, just to say that I recently discovered Ephedrine over the counter as a diet pill; now look b4 any of U get weird ideas about me, I am fat but I am not into taking drugs to get smaller. HOWEVER, i discovered the most wonderful thing about this med – IT HELPS ME BREATHE. IT HELPS ME BREATHE. IT HELPS ME BREATHE. Er, think I’ve made my point!
I have been an asthmatic since 1964, almost all my life. I was given pure adrenalin when i was wee, and have taken huge amounts of other drugs – including steroids – to keep me alive for all these years. In July 2000, Mar 2001 and Aug 2002, I nearly died from asthma attacks… this has not happened to me since I was a little gal; i’m not sure what life/body stresses caused these nr death experiences, but I do know that this ephedrine works well for me, AND I don’t have to take any of the steroid (or hardly any,) anymore. Steroids have several side-ffects which are nasty, one of which, I believe is, osteoporosis in women of my age and upwatds..(thinning of the bones.)

And Eph. is psychoactive and addictive, so then I had to do a harm reduction evaluation on myself: could i cope with a little bit of addiction, which gives me energy (desp. needed) and keeps my breathing going, even if i’m readdicted AND it has a huge financial cost.

My doc was opposed completely, but since she has been so neglectful of me, who cares? She didn’t even wanna hear that it was helping me to breathe without all the junk-meds she was giving me… and it is NOT contraindicted with any other meds I take for other things.

[1 pharmaceutical co V another – that’s all.]

IMPORTANT thing is that I NEVER take more than 80mgs of Eph/day – so controlled addiction, or what is more commonly known as responsible self-medication. TG it’s legal!

Am really appreciating all the e-s about intelligence and emotion and what they are. Learning tons from y’all as usual

Thanx a million

Love andria

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, ElGrekkko wrote:
> >
> > > Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two thousand
> > > years for the same thing.
> >
> >
> > I’ve always had a very bad reaction to ephedrine, i get very shaky and
> > anxious. the odd thing is that i tolerate amphetamines and cocaine fine,
> > which seems bizarre to me since they are stronger stimulants.
> >
> > i also have no problem with pseudoephedrine…
>
>
> Ok, one more time. I am not talking about ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine.
> These are synthetic derivatives of the actual herb, the plant called
> Ephedra. This is a plant, like pot, like a carrot, like Valerian root, that
> has been used in Chinese traditional medicine for a loooooooong time. When
> you begin to fuck with such things—pardon my French—and make synthetic
> components, you are also screwing with nature’s own time-tested formula.
> Ephedrine and especially pseudo-ephedrine is a fucked-with version of
> Ephedra. Other fucked-with versions of this powerful plant are crystal meth
> and speed. You will get some nasty bodily reactions if you do too much of
> these synthetic versions. But if you spend good money to get real and good
> quality Ephedra, then you can see why humans have cherished it for so long.
> But you pay well in order to see this. www.shamanshop.net has the quality
> I’m talking about. No jitters, very pure.

No, ephedrine is a naturally occuring chemical, it is the primary
psychoactive constituent of ephedra (like morphine to opium). I experience
the shakes and anxiety whether I take the whole herb, or the
extracted ephedrine; leading me to believe that it is the ephedrine which
causes the reaction (as opposed to some other chemical found in the whole
herb).

I would imagine that the reason that pseudoephedrine doesn’t have this
effect on me is that it is less potent than ephedrine, but what confuses
the matter is that more potent stimulants (e.g. methamphetamine and
cocaine) don’t cause this reaction in me…

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Andria back on line at AOL
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:19:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Andria says:  Just wanted to respond to this one from Chris’ – with its usual
eloquence and beauty… (C below)

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’  This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have

is it yoda?

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
–                                                                        –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Andria back on line at AOL
Date: October 9, 2002 at 7:14:46 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria says:  Just wanted to respond to this one from Chris’ – with its usual eloquence and beauty… (C below)

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’  This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have
found you’re own daimos, it opens up somekind of doorway through which all
the universe’s energies, or whatever you’d like to call it, comes rushing
through your mind. Anyone who has been reborn can testify to this; it’s an
energy rush that suddenly gives you new sites, new views, scores of new
thought dimensions. His theory is that anyone who finds this daimos,
through ibogaine, drugs, their own soul-searching, whatever, also finds
greater intelligence. I always think of those singers who people say have a
lot of soul, when I think of this definition. You don’t see great singers
of soul sitting around writing books on fuzzy logic. But you listen to
them, and hear that daimos coming out of them, and their way of singing
reaches parts of your mind that have been touched and that you never even
knew were there.

I guess this is very much a sceptical drug users perspective, but what U describe above, I usually put down to natural chemicals running around my body. If I had the time to prove myself wrong though, I’d be really happy

andria

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a complaint
Date: October 8, 2002 at 12:53:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Didn’t you know it was the best place to meet  your new dealer ?

—– Original Message —–
From: <brendan22@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:43 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] a complaint

I have been very disapointed in last few days with the conversations on
this list.

They have been intelligent and with people talking to each other instead
of screaming at each other.

I’m going to go find some NA groups now and tell them that everyone on
this list is saying they kill people.

That should liven it up.

I’m J/K. I’ve gotten so used to Day Brown I miss him when he doesn’t write
his 20 crack inspired history lessons every day to the vox list.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] a complaint
Date: October 7, 2002 at 7:43:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have been very disapointed in last few days with the conversations on this list.

They have been intelligent and with people talking to each other instead of screaming at each other.

I’m going to go find some NA groups now and tell them that everyone on this list is saying they kill people.

That should liven it up.

I’m J/K. I’ve gotten so used to Day Brown I miss him when he doesn’t write his 20 crack inspired history lessons every day to the vox list.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what happens right after ibogaine?
Date: October 7, 2002 at 7:32:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Any system of liberation works only once,for each individual”.
if anyone has a copy of “zen without zen masters” on falcon press
they can find the proper quote which i have probably fucked up – but
you get the gist –
patrick is absolutely spot on, take what you find useful and
actually checks out in