Ibogaine List Archives - 2002-10

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Given pot laws, how honest are feds?
Date: October 31, 2002 at 11:02:46 PM EST
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Saturday, October 26, 2002

Given pot laws, how honest are feds?
Oct. 27, 2002 Orange County Register Reader Rebuttal

By Rick L. Root
The Westminster resident is operations manager for a machinery
manufacturer in Santa Ana.

In reference to the congressional call for an inquiry into what U.S.
officials knew about
al-Qaida threats before the Sept. 11 attacks, Audrey Wicks
rhetorically asks, “What
American in his right mind could have had such information and not
put out an alarm?”
[Letters, Oct. 16] – as if it were a given that our leaders are
incapable of considering
average citizens to be expendable. The question deserves much more than cursory
agreement to its implied rhetorical answer – not as an indictment of government
involvement but as a means to show that government is capable of such
callousness.

There are many who claim FDR knew of and allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor in
order to sway public opinion toward entering World War II. If true,
his administration
Even more compelling evidence exists that suggests LBJ was aware of the gross
inaccuracies in his Gulf of Tonkin speech, which served to escalate
our involvement in
Vietnam. Again, if true, leadership decided American lives to be
expendable in the
advancement of desired policy.

Of course, there are other examples that might indicate areas of our
government do
indeed consider citizens to be expendable for the advancement of
policy. But most of
us by nature will continue to trust those who lead us, and to dismiss
contrary claims as
loony conspiracy theories, until such time as irrefutable proof is
laid in our hands.

But for me and millions of other Americans, absolute proof is in our
hands. That proof:
marijuana.

Over the last four decades, marijuana use has become commonplace in America. In
that time, millions from all walks of life have used it
recreationally without harm. Its
medicinal qualities are recognized and taken advantage of by tens of
thousands of sick
and dying Americans who have found a non-toxic means of improving the
quality of
their lives. Yet government and most politicians from both parties
continue to refuse the
facts, both anecdotal and clinical, to promote and protect the
prohibition against and
the Class 1 scheduling of marijuana. They lie to us. Millions of
Americans know the
truth from years and years of first- and second-hand experiences with
the herb. The
lies are told to protect and advance policies, programs and business
dependent upon
its prohibition, which has caused great harm to millions of good
Americans. People
are expendable for the sake of desired policy.

Marijuana doesn’t kill. No one has ever died from its ingestion. Yet
government has you
believe otherwise. They would have you believe marijuana is addictive. Hardly.
Marijuana is being used successfully as a means of beating addiction
to drugs that kill,
such as alcohol. But don’t take my word for it or government’s.
Simply look around your
community. Where are the bodies that marijuana supposedly claims? Where are the
signs of harm? Look in your jails and prisons – there’s your harm. The harms of
marijuana are slight compared to the harms of marijuana prohibition.

Or look at the treatment of a local medical marijuana user. AIDS
patient Ross Embry of
Laguna Beach [“O.C. case a test for medical marijuana,” Local News, Oct.16] was
arrested for cultivating his medicine. Now he is suffering, and he
will suffer further – not
from the use of marijuana but from the government lies that prop up
its prohibition. Is
he expendable for the sake of the government’s desired policy?

“What American in his right mind could have had such information and
not put out an
alarm?” the letter-writer asked.

Good question, Ms. Wicks. Alarms are sounded yet apathy prevails. Or worse,
messengers are dismissed because the message is unpopular. The tyranny isn’t as
much that government boldly lies as it is that the majority blindly believes.
World – Reuters
————-

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 9:03:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ditto from the other list.

— J Callan <whitehaze@sympatico.ca> wrote:
After hearing your unfortunate story I am very upset
that vendors like this even exist. Obviously they
exist due to 100% profit by misrepresenting their
products. If you can venture to Canada I will offer
you an adequate amount of extract FREE.

You may reach us with the below information.
We will not under ANY circumstances ship to the US!

www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: steve diamond
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off

I recieived the address of Ethnoplanet from the
Ibo.uk site. They were the
only company willing to mail iboga root to the US.
Now I know why…It is
fake.

I was desparate, willing to try anything. I
started with a 5 gram order
thinking that it might be enough for a detox. I
send $35, which for me, at
this point, is a lot of money. I made all kinds of
special arrangements. You
can imagine how bummed out I was when very little
happened.

Next I ordered 75 grams for $340!!! I made a
simple ethanol extract using no
heat. I drank it and almost nothing happened.
Thinking I messed up the
extract (very difficult, I have a degree in
chemistry) I mixed the nasty
extracted root with creamed corn and ate 60 grams
of the shit. 30 minutes
later I fell asleep for an hour. I felt very
slightly buzzed but nothing
else. I had the worst stomach ache for three days.

It had no effect on my habit what so ever. Now I
am so depressed, I wish I
were dead. Those mother fuckers at Ethnoplanet
suck. They refuse to refund
my money and told me if I want to get high (the
last thing I want) I should
order mescaline from them.

Please, nobody should do business with those
fucking beat artist scumbags.
In my city, beat artists are dealt with in a very
unpleasant fashion. I feel
betrayed, stupid and very depressed. That was the
last bit of money I had.

Steve
Still strung out

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From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 8:39:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have had identical experience with these people. Not shipped into the US but paying for something that doesn’t look to do anything at all. It may have some ibogaine content so I did not complain too much and then never tried iboga.nl. I have had very good results with indra.dk

I would be wary of dealing with anyone who is willing to ship direct into the US. There is a almost complete chance that they are only taking your money for nothing.

I did not post this before because I thought what Bill said, maybe the content is only very low. But now I have to say the same thing. Has anyone here had any positive results from ethnoplanet?

—

— steve diamond <stevediamond79@hotmail.com> wrote:
I recieived the address of Ethnoplanet from the
Ibo.uk site. They were the
only company willing to mail iboga root to the US.
Now I know why…It is
fake.

I was desparate, willing to try anything. I started
with a 5 gram order
thinking that it might be enough for a detox. I send
$35, which for me, at
this point, is a lot of money. I made all kinds of
special arrangements. You
can imagine how bummed out I was when very little
happened.

Next I ordered 75 grams for $340!!! I made a simple
ethanol extract using no
heat. I drank it and almost nothing happened.
Thinking I messed up the
extract (very difficult, I have a degree in
chemistry) I mixed the nasty
extracted root with creamed corn and ate 60 grams of
the shit. 30 minutes
later I fell asleep for an hour. I felt very
slightly buzzed but nothing
else. I had the worst stomach ache for three days.

It had no effect on my habit what so ever. Now I am
so depressed, I wish I
were dead. Those mother fuckers at Ethnoplanet suck.
They refuse to refund
my money and told me if I want to get high (the last
thing I want) I should
order mescaline from them.

Please, nobody should do business with those fucking
beat artist scumbags.
In my city, beat artists are dealt with in a very
unpleasant fashion. I feel
betrayed, stupid and very depressed. That was the
last bit of money I had.

Steve
Still strung out

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 8:11:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was it iboga _root_? If so, then of course it wouldn’t work,
right? The rootbark must be a tiny % of the weight, so no
ibogaine to speak of, but possibly lots of other unpleasant
alkaloids. So it might have been iboga, but root priced as
if it were rootbark.

Bill

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FWD Re: [IBOGAINE] Ethnoplanet Rip Off
Date: October 31, 2002 at 8:00:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From “the other” list.

Brett
— steve diamond <stevediamond79@hotmail.com> wrote:
I recieived the address of Ethnoplanet from the
Ibo.uk site. They were the
only company willing to mail iboga root to the US.
Now I know why…It is
fake.

I was desparate, willing to try anything. I started
with a 5 gram order
thinking that it might be enough for a detox. I send
$35, which for me, at
this point, is a lot of money. I made all kinds of
special arrangements. You
can imagine how bummed out I was when very little
happened.

Next I ordered 75 grams for $340!!! I made a simple
ethanol extract using no
heat. I drank it and almost nothing happened.
Thinking I messed up the
extract (very difficult, I have a degree in
chemistry) I mixed the nasty
extracted root with creamed corn and ate 60 grams of
the shit. 30 minutes
later I fell asleep for an hour. I felt very
slightly buzzed but nothing
else. I had the worst stomach ache for three days.

It had no effect on my habit what so ever. Now I am
so depressed, I wish I
were dead. Those mother fuckers at Ethnoplanet suck.
They refuse to refund
my money and told me if I want to get high (the last
thing I want) I should
order mescaline from them.

Please, nobody should do business with those fucking
beat artist scumbags.
In my city, beat artists are dealt with in a very
unpleasant fashion. I feel
betrayed, stupid and very depressed. That was the
last bit of money I had.

Steve
Still strung out

_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls!燝et MSN
Broadband.

http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 7:46:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

2 more cents.

dl-phenylalanine (a "required" amino acid) is
likely to help your crack addict, this is aside from
the ibo issue. If you do an internet search on
"phenylalanine AND cocaine" (or
"amphetamine" or "addiction" and
phenylalanine). You could also look up "depression
AND phenylalanine" and there you will find it is
about as effective as the most commonly used psychotic
medications, (eg welbutrin, various SSRI’s). Most
people have no side effects, a few people will get
speedy – D-phenylalanine can be used instead of the
DL- flavor. Some people it doesn’t work, use tyrosine
instead of phenylalanine. They are precursors of major
neurotransmitters, epinephrine, nor-epinephrine,
dopamine… (I don’t have the exact details in my
head) and effectively treat some of the
post-withdrawal symptoms such as edginess. It is
subtle and may take weeks (to a month) to take effect
but it does work quite well, I still take it. Get it
in any health food store, about 6 bucks for 60.

With ibogaine it (dl-phenylalanine) seems to make the
recovery time quicker/easier, I couldn’t say
specifically if it does anything more than the obvious
(as stated above) when mixed with ibogaine in a crack
addict, it isn’t going to hurt.

Another amino acid "tryptophan" has been
reported to help mood and take some of what I call the
"darkness" out of opiate addicts ibogaine
treatment. You are using Milk with the ibo so that may
help mood. Tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin.

Melatonin is also used and can enhance mood as well as
help with post-ibo sleeping. People with SADDs
shouldn’t take melatonin – as I found out, makes me
depressed.

Another substance I have (and many others) used long
before ibogaine was Rescue Remedy, it is great for
emotional crisis, nice and calming. I never used it
with ibo but have for addiction a number of times – it
will mix with ibo quite safely. Come to think of it,
might be a good treatment for ibogaine induced
anxiety… hummm, gotta try that one. Most
health-food stores would carry it. Very subtle, takes
the "edge" off, has zero side effects or drug
interactions.

Good luck.

Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
> OK, I will start at a lower dose. I will let the
> group know how this person
> progresses.
>
> Today is the day.
>
> Marc
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Brett Calabrese"
<bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
> administration
>
>
> > MARC
> >
> > 2 cents
> >
> > Generally/historically a lower dose is used
for
> > non-opiate addicts, in the 12-15mg/kg range,
> 20mg/kg
> > (18.8mg/kg) is getting up there high end
short
> acting
> > opiate/low end methadone range. In my case
it was
> > bumpped up to 18mg/kg because I am a hard
head
> (you
> > didn’t notice that did you???). Yes, it is
> different
> > form of ibogaine, in freebase format and I
suppose
> you
> > are giving it over time and not all at once
like
> last
> > time BUT IMO, it may be less necessary for
the
> > addiction itself than it would be for an
opiate
> > addiction. The 1,700mg ibogaine AND 1,400mg
other
> > ibogaine alkaloids would likely have a)
synergy
> > together to be more potent than just 1.7gm
and B,
> NOT
> > be 1.4gm of strictly other alkaloids – more
like
> 1.4gm
> > other alkaloids and OTHER STUFF. Ibogaine is
or
> can be
> > really rough, on the one hand larger and
repeated
> > doses are more effective (no doubt), on the
other
> hand
> > risk and unpleasant side effects increase
with the
> > dose. Opiate addicte tend to have less
visions
> than
> > non-opiate addicts, so your patient is more
likely
> to
> > have more visions anyway, not that it
matters
> much,
> > just saying.
> > You can (of course) start a tad lower in a
more
> > traditional dose range (acknowleding it is a
> different
> > form of iboga) and bump it up a bit if
necessary –
> an
> > option, not a suggestion. Keep in mind that
> peoples
> > reaction to ibogaine is all over the place,
some
> are
> > very sensitive, others are not.
> >
> > How were you planning on giving it, all at
once
> with a
> > tester dose or split up like the last time?
> >
> > You are the one at the "front line"
on this one,
> you
> > are the one using this form of iboga (16X
freebase
> > extract), you are the one to evaluate the
> patient…
> > That said your dosage seems a bit on the
high side
> to
> > me – but again, I am unfamiliar with that
> particular
> > flavor of iboga, just that it appears to be
about
> > 3/5ths as strong as ibogaine HCL, that
roughly
> 25-30gm
> > of quality root bark is about the same as
1gm of
> > ibogaine HCL (though different), at 16X
> concentration
> > 1gm of extract fits right in that 3/5ths –
TO ME,
> FROM
> > FAR, FAR AWAY for which I can’t see for
myself…
> > Certainly, "more will be revealed"
to you on how
> to
> > treat patients as well as this particular
iboga
> > extract (eg, maybe it doesn’t translate to
quite
> > 3/5ths as strong).
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> >
> >
> > 3
> >
> >
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > Brett
> >
> >
> > — MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90
kg would
> be
> > > around 1,800 mg. The extract contains
about
> 1,700
> > > mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark.
Is there
> a
> > > reason why this dose, in your opinion,
is too
> high?
> > >
> > > Marc
> > > —– Original Message —–
> > > From: Mundo Real
> > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05
PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks
iboga
> extract
> > > administration
> > >
> > >
> > > Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700
mgs). Max
> for
> > > ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure
you have
> your
> > > numbers right.
Mundo.
> > >
> > > MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Our extract is administered for him
at 37
> mg/kg.
> > > He weighs 90 kilograms.
> > > 3,130 mg. total dose (representing
1,700 mg.
> > > ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
> > > iboga alkaloids).
> > >
> > > By the way, I have a concern about
> > > benzodiazipiam in the patients system.
I
> > > am advised by someone who went
through
> Sara’s
> > > clinic learning that these
> > > prescription drugs in the system
can induce
> > > seizures, and if seizures pose a
> > > greater risk during iboga extract
> > > administration, if the patient is a
long
> > > term user of benzodiazipiams.
> > >
> > > Marc Emery
> > >
> > > —– Original Message —–
> > > From: "Brett Calabrese"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24
PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks
iboga
> extract
> > > administration
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Any particular advice in
dealing with
> > > cocaine-only
> > > > > addicts?"
> > > >
> > > > FWIW, I was treated for coke
addiction
> with
> > > alcohol
> > > > (no HotJobs – Search new jobs
daily now
> > >
> >
> >
> >
__________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
> > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Mayoral Candidate Treating Addicts w. Ibogaine!
Date: October 30, 2002 at 6:13:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, DDanforbes@aol.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: HSL123@aol.com
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Subject: [IBOGAINE] Vancouver mayoral candidate provides ibogaine treatment
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:11:49 EST
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:11:49 EST
Status:

Vancouver’s mayoral candidate Marc Emory is not only calling for a response
to drug addiction but, actually treating addicts with an experimental
medication to make effective treatment a reality. The text below is found on
his campaign web page <http://marc4mayor.com/>. I anticipate this is a first
in political campaign history.

Howard

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: RE: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy— HELLO DANA!!!!
Date: October 30, 2002 at 6:05:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
X-Originating-IP: [12.236.29.74]
From: “adams, n.” <mdsterbal@hotmail.com>
To: sfr_mdowner564@hawkridgetech.com, hella_sick@excite.com,
sfraves@hyperreal.org
Cc: dana@cures-not-wars.org, viadyer@attbi.com
Bcc:
Subject: RE: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy— HELLO DANA!!!!
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:19:11 -0800
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2002 22:19:12.0734 (UTC)
FILETIME=[601B2FE0:01C28062]
Status:

hey MattD,

hell yes, 1994 counts!

My first ‘day party’ was on 1 May 1979, yes, *not* a typo, 1979,
when I ran away from my parents home, (bro, so sorry for the anguish
at home, but you know how crazy things were), and joined the
yippies! by attending their annual May Day Marijuania Day Parade in
Washington Square Park, with a March up 5th Avenue, (street i was
born on!!! Donald Trump ain’t got NUTHIN on me, sucka), with a Rock
Against Racism concert in Central Park that afternoon.

I fell asleep on a bus there and when I woke up in the morning the
first sight I saw as we drove by was the Washington Monument in DC
on our way to the Three Mile Island, No Nukes Rally.

(btw, my thinking hasn’t changed on the 420, but nuclear power is a
beautiful thing, and it’s not up for discussion, at least not with
me, you’ll be talking to a brick wall that naturally emits more
radiation than a cooling tower.)

After the rally, right before i got back on the bus I went for a
soda and the damn bus left w/out me stranding in DC with no money
and no friends.

oops.

I hitch-hiked back to NYC with a guy named Lester, who also dinn’t
get on the bus when he should have, and we made the 5 hour by car
trip in 7 hours via thumb, and arrived at the doorstep of Studio 10,
my on-again, off-again home for the next few years @ 10 Bleecker
Street, in NY’s East Village on the corner of the Bowery,
kittie-cornered from CBGB’s at 6am in the morning, where we were
greeted at the door by the yippies! in house para-legal, Dean,
totally naked and half asleep, since they had run him ragged the day
before at the DC protest.

He let us in and i gotta tell ya, Studio 10 was/is the prototype for
the warehouse parties we know and love today.

We were open at least 5 nights a week and we featured 3 bands for
three bux in this loft-like live work place that was so fun that it
never occured to me to go check out the acts @ CBGB’s.

doh!

my first exposure to the DMT i wrote about a while back, ocurred in
those environs, among many other things, which I then saw later on a
much larger scale when i started making our modern parties on and
off in 1998.

Apollo’s got Woodstock, I’ve got my daze in Studio Ten to cherish
and relive every party I go to today.

btw, the good people from that time and place are doing *THE*
cutting edge work today in addiction interruption, so if you know
any one that has issues with ‘powder-death’ drugs, look into the
ibogaine approach they’ve discovered.

FYI, Ibogaine is a *psychedelic!!!*

details are here:

http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html
and
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html

the life you save may be one you love.

as soon as I can afford it, i’m going to try this on my tobacco
addiction and since one guy is doing it in international waters in
the Carribbean, Howard Lotsoff, the man who discovered this on
accident, it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make….

nic

‘I believe in this, and it’s been tested by research,
He who fucks nuns, will later join The Church’

Strummer/Jones, LC, Death or Glory, 1979

From: “SFR_Mdowner564” <sfr_mdowner564@hawkridgetech.com>
To: <hella_sick@excite.com>, <sfraves@hyperreal.org>
Subject: RE: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:33:46 -0800

Does attending frequent parties since 1994 count as a raver? I like to
think of myself more as a grumpy raver 🙂 What is up wit your reply?
It’s all cryptic 🙂

MattD

—–Original Message—–
From: :09 [mailto:hella_sick@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:12 PM
To: sfraves@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgy

really? are you a raver then?— On Tue 10/29, Delia Mendoza <
velouria83@yahoo.com > wrote:
From: Delia Mendoza [mailto: velouria83@yahoo.com]To:
justin.cloutier@attbi.com, sfraves@hyperreal.orgDate: Tue, 29 Oct 2002
17:51:42 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat Orgydammit
just tease people with da orgy talk…get themall riled up…you know
these raver people arehorndogs come on! lol Delia— Justin Cloutier
wrote:> Hey, not too bad here!!!> > -J> > —– Original
Message —– > From: “Delia Mendoza” > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday,
October 29, 2002 5:21 PM> Subject: Re: [sfraves] Let’s Have a Phat
Orgy> > > > oooohh thanks :)> > > > Delia >
> — DeezzerRec@aol.com wrote:> > > sorry, this was a bsp.
for a new release. a new> > > song i just made called lets >
> > have a phat orgy. go to your fav record store> and> >
> give it a spin > > > > > > In a message dated
10/29/2002 5:00:26 PM Pacific> > > Standard Time, > >
> velouria83@yahoo.com writes:> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > ? orgys are cool but huh?> > >
> > > > > > > > > — DeezzerRec@aol.com
wrote:> > > > > play it..play it..play it..play it!!>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
__________________________________________________> > Do you
Yahoo!?> > HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now> >
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/> > >
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—–> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:>
sfraves-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> > For additional commands,
e-mail:> sfraves-help@hyperreal.org> >
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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 1:03:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, I will start at a lower dose. I will let the group know how this person
progresses.

Today is the day.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

MARC

2 cents

Generally/historically a lower dose is used for
non-opiate addicts, in the 12-15mg/kg range, 20mg/kg
(18.8mg/kg) is getting up there high end short acting
opiate/low end methadone range. In my case it was
bumpped up to 18mg/kg because I am a hard head (you
didn’t notice that did you???). Yes, it is different
form of ibogaine, in freebase format and I suppose you
are giving it over time and not all at once like last
time BUT IMO, it may be less necessary for the
addiction itself than it would be for an opiate
addiction. The 1,700mg ibogaine AND 1,400mg other
ibogaine alkaloids would likely have a) synergy
together to be more potent than just 1.7gm and B, NOT
be 1.4gm of strictly other alkaloids – more like 1.4gm
other alkaloids and OTHER STUFF. Ibogaine is or can be
really rough, on the one hand larger and repeated
doses are more effective (no doubt), on the other hand
risk and unpleasant side effects increase with the
dose. Opiate addicte tend to have less visions than
non-opiate addicts, so your patient is more likely to
have more visions anyway, not that it matters much,
just saying.
You can (of course) start a tad lower in a more
traditional dose range (acknowleding it is a different
form of iboga) and bump it up a bit if necessary – an
option, not a suggestion. Keep in mind that peoples
reaction to ibogaine is all over the place, some are
very sensitive, others are not.

How were you planning on giving it, all at once with a
tester dose or split up like the last time?

You are the one at the “front line” on this one, you
are the one using this form of iboga (16X freebase
extract), you are the one to evaluate the patient…
That said your dosage seems a bit on the high side to
me – but again, I am unfamiliar with that particular
flavor of iboga, just that it appears to be about
3/5ths as strong as ibogaine HCL, that roughly 25-30gm
of quality root bark is about the same as 1gm of
ibogaine HCL (though different), at 16X concentration
1gm of extract fits right in that 3/5ths – TO ME, FROM
FAR, FAR AWAY for which I can’t see for myself…
Certainly, “more will be revealed” to you on how to
treat patients as well as this particular iboga
extract (eg, maybe it doesn’t translate to quite
3/5ths as strong).

Good luck

Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be
around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700
mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a
reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for
ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your
numbers right. Mundo.

MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:

Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg.
He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg.
ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about
benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s
clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract
administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with
alcohol
(no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 30, 2002 at 3:59:57 AM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com (Ibogaine)
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What’s more, they’ve got some fine swampland property in Florida (in
addition to several bridges) that may interest you.

Ethan

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

thanks, dude. i’m trying to crack this case. you’re in the ibogaine list
too, right? Dana, Brett, and Jon all gave some great info, andria, too,
that i’ve yet to look thru. these are definitely the people you’ve gotta
target.

Chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

<]=———————————————————————–=[>
[ Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com | Andria E-Mordaunt ]
| -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=- |
| To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com |
[ DrugWar List in Digest Format: drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com ]
<]=———————————————————————–=[>

From: drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 30, 2002 at 5:43:25 AM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com (Ibogaine)
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, I agree. I may even phone in myself…from a pay phone. 🙂 (Not
that they don’t probably already have me on their list as a troublemaker.)

Ethan

Well, they may welcome comments even if they don’t listen to them …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net>

What’s more, they’ve got some fine swampland property in Florida (in
addition to several bridges) that may interest you.

Ethan

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at
these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might
find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the
legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 10:15:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MARC

2 cents

How were you planning on giving it, all at once with a
tester dose or split up like the last time?

Good luck

Brett

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for
ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your
numbers right. Mundo.

MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:

Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg.
He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg.
ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with
alcohol
(no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Re: [drugwar] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 30, 2002 at 5:38:14 AM EST
To: <vox@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, they may welcome comments even if they don’t listen to them …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <drumz@drumz.best.vwh.net>

What’s more, they’ve got some fine swampland property in Florida (in
addition to several bridges) that may interest you.

Ethan

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

If you want specific names, I’m sorry but I don’t have that information.
Less specifically, it’s the DEA and sometimes the FDA that looks at
these
things. The DEA has said in the past that they’re looking at salvia. The
bill which would schedule it, H.R. 5607, appears to be an hysterical
reaction to some “unknown” by legislators. AFAIK, the DEA was not the
impetus behind this new bill, though the fact that they’re looking at it
may
have had some impact. Probably the most immediate action is to make sure
that this bill doesn’t get passed. In the meantime, I’m trying to get
information specifically about how and why Baca and Napolitano came to
sponsor this bill, but haven’t had much luck, aside from the obvious
reasons.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might
find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the
legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

From: Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 2:34:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think 20 mg/kg ibogaine hcl is too high of a dosing. That would equal 100 mg/kg of Indra 5:1 extract (what I am most familiar with). That setting would make a total dosing of 9,000 mgs (100 mgs x 90 kgs). Maximum dosing for the Indra extract is 5,000 mgs, which comes out to roughly 55 mgs/kg of Indra (5,000 mgs divided by 90 kgs) which comes out to roughly 11 mgs/kg ibogaine content. I believe the Lotsof procedure uses (or used) 1,000 mg of ibogaine hcl for addiction interruption. I would assume that 90 kgs would call for a heftier dose, but 20 mgs/kg seems a bit high. Maybe some other folks can chime in. Mundo.
MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700 mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Seems like too much ibogaine (1,700 mgs). Max for ibogaine is near 1,000 mgs. Make sure you have your numbers right. Mundo.
MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg. He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg. ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

> “Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts?”
>
> FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
> (no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 30, 2002 at 2:04:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 20 mg/kg ibogaine hydrochloride, 90 kg would be around 1,800 mg. The extract contains about 1,700 mg. ibogaine, not so far off the mark. Is there a reason why this dose, in your opinion, is too high?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Mundo Real
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

> “Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts?”
>
> FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
> (no HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

From: Mundo Real <earthpod2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 11:05:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

> “Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts?”
>
> FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
> (not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
> HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
> test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t hit me
> enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
> drugs with no problems. The first was “booster” was
> needed (started having a hard time) at about 6 months
> but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by which
> time I started drinking somewhat.
>
> “will go for a high dose ”
>
> How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if you
> don’t mind… )
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>
>
> — MARC wrote:
> > Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days
> > since his last fix and he is doing well. This week
> > we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his
> > addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get
> > physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we
> > will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations
> > help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He
> > has 3 children, and we are dosing him at his
> > grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do
> > this on Wednesday.
> >
> > Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
> > addicts? His health profile is excellent.
> >
> > Marc Emery
> >
> > P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
> > world and we are processing potential candidates as
> > well. We are getting an apartment where we can set
> > up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one
> > first aid training tomorrow.
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>
>

Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 29, 2002 at 7:51:54 PM EST
To: <vox@mindvox.com>, “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found this through DRCNet:

The DEA says they welcome comments and additional information at the Drug
and Chemical Evaluation Section.

Fax: 202 307-8570
Phone: 202 307-7183

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>

From what I understand, it is being “looked at,” but I’m not really
sure
exactly what’s happening. Feel free to pass on any info you might find.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Henry Barnett” <weigonchi@hotmail.com>

do you have any idea about the state of savia d in england??

—– Original Message —–
From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal
status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me
through
the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 12:35:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nuthin important…just my Vcard. I’ve removed it.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 10/29/02 08:54AM >>>
Rick

what was in the download, cos i was unable to open it?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (U.K)Class/Scedules(U.S.) of drugs
Date: October 29, 2002 at 10:33:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard

Heroin is a Class A drug (Equiv to U.S. Schedule 1) I believe. Ibogaine wasn’t scheduled at all till last year; hope it wasn’t our fault they found out about it and scheduled it! Far more likely to be related to the ‘special relationship American & English drug warriors’ have with each other..

Schedule 3/Class C drugs over here include some amphetamines, benzodiazepines, Ibogaine and soon cannabis.

Hope all is well in yr life

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

I head ibogaine was only going to be restricted to licenced herbalists. Is that untrue?

Dana/cnw

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 10:31:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe I am confused with the question.

NO, ibogaine will NOT cause seizures when mixed with
benzo’s, they have been safely used with ibogaine to
reduce anxiety during the experience and promote sleep
post ibogaine session.

It is when one is addicted to benzo’s (alcohol,
barbituates and some other drugs) that cause seizures
when their use is stopped, it is a manifestation of
the addiction to these substances.

Ibogaine (an “anti-addictive”) has been reported to
work on any addictive substance thrown at it so far,
including drug addictions that can cause seizures
(alcohol is the most reported). From what reports I
have seen no one has had a seizure post ibogaine
either because these substances are in the body or
they are being treated for addiction. Ibogaine in
LARGE doses can cause seizures but this usually only
happens if you are a lab rat and injected with near
lethal doses of ibogaine (oh, look, brain damage, I
wonder why!)

Brett

— Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, MARC wrote:

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam
in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s
clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration,
if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

I don’t know what interaction ibogaine and
benzodiazapines would have, but
it would strike me as odd if it would cause
seizures, as a number of
benzos are used as anti-seizure medications (e.g.
clonazepam, temazepam).

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander
userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness

http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–
–

————————————————————————–
“John Walters is a pathetic drug-war soul who is
defending a whole
catalog of horrors he’s indifferent to.”
–John Sperling

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 10:03:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, MARC wrote:

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

I don’t know what interaction ibogaine and benzodiazapines would have, but
it would strike me as odd if it would cause seizures, as a number of
benzos are used as anti-seizure medications (e.g. clonazepam, temazepam).

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“John Walters is a pathetic drug-war soul who is defending a whole
catalog of horrors he’s indifferent to.”
–John Sperling

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] $6m question
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:56:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Andria,

Does that mean that schedule 3 is not a severe schedule. For instance, what
schedule is heroin in?

I believe the UK has three classifications, A, B, and C; A being the most
restrictive, C being the least restrictive. (Heroin is in A; cannabis was
downgraded this year from B to C)

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:49:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

The short answer is ibogaine works for any addiction
(that i have seen so far) including benzo’s. So you
shouldn’t get seizures just like you shouldn’t get
seizures from an alcoholic being treated with ibo. I
have used and have known other addicts to use Dilantin
for mild post-withdrawal seizure like activity,
dancing feet, restlessness. Typically however
(non-ibo) the chance of seizures can go on long after
cessation of a drug such as alcohol, valium, other
benzo’s, barbituates the worst, seizures can happen
months later. IMO, that does not mean 100% of the ibo
patients you have will never get a seizure 100% of the
time just as some people experience withdrawals from
opiates, I would guess seizures may happen if you see
enough patients – though never heard of any happening.

Just some thoughts
Brett

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in
the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic
learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce
seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if
the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract
administration

“Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with
alcohol
(not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t
hit me
enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
drugs with no problems. The first was “booster”
was
needed (started having a hard time) at about 6
months
but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by
which
time I started drinking somewhat.

“will go for a high dose ”

How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if
you
don’t mind… <g>)

Thanks,
Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7
days
since his last fix and he is doing well. This
week
we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says
his
addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t
get
physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him,
we
will go for a high dose and hope the
visualizations
help him understand his dependence on cocaine.
He
has 3 children, and we are dosing him at his
grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine).
We do
this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with
cocaine-only
addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
world and we are processing potential candidates
as
well. We are getting an apartment where we can
set
up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level
one
first aid training tomorrow.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Benzodiazepine withdrawal/seizures can happen.
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:36:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc said;
By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc
If yr patient is not exhibiting any fits or seizures yet, he’s either still taking benzodiazepines (behind your back) – yoh U’all, don’t say I was the only one who did that in detox!! – OR his habit was not that big/long before he went into the Ibogaine experience.

To my knowledge, if he was going to have seizures, he may well have begun them by now, but others on this list may well know better

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:42:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t used the iboga extract on myself, Sara. Do you think I should? What is the benefit, do you think, of self-administering?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: sara glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Dear Marc ,

I find out that it isn’t so much the visualization that helps to understand one own addiction , it is more to do with the
awarness and will power of that person, state of mind or state of brainwashing he is .it isn’t true that the higher
the dose the better the visualization or better treatment or better detox .it is the connection one has with
their own divinity that are causing the healing and not the amount of Iboga someone get,
some people get answers to their problems having no visualizations ,some have visualization they can’t connect
to, some people have deep emotional journey which isn’t fun , and some have only detox on a physical level .
all on the same dosage .
You can’t make sense of the iboga’s way , but you can ask for clear visions and clear answers .

have you taken the stuff you are administering ?

all the best ,

Sara

From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:46 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days since his last fix and he is doing well. This week we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He has 3 children, and we are dosing him at his grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:22:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

like a childrens’ toy called a “top,” something that spins around and around without falling over until it stops spinning. It was an interesting and not unpleasant sensation, and nothing whatsoever like the spinning sensation I get from drinking alcohol.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A

Dear Preston

What does ‘feeling like a top inside’ mean?

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:20:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Dana Beal wrote:

What about Montreal, and this opening in Windsor, where we can
majorly influence Conyers? We need something for the EAST.

Yeah we do!

(i’m in baltimore)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (U.K)Class/Scedules(U.S.) of drugs
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:14:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/29/02 8:24:33 AM, AndriaE@aol.com writes:

Heroin is a Class A drug (Equiv to U.S. Schedule 1) I believe. Ibogaine
wasn’t scheduled at all till last year; hope it wasn’t our fault they found
out about it and scheduled it! Far more likely to be related to the ‘special
relationship American & English drug warriors’ have with each other..

Schedule 3/Class C drugs over here include some amphetamines,
benzodiazepines, Ibogaine and soon cannabis.

Andria,

If you goto <http://ibogaine.co.uk/new.htm> and scroll down to “Feb 9 2000 –
UK Coroner records death was caused by Tabernanthe iboga extract” (third
item) that appears to be the source of the scheduling of ibogaine. The
effect of the scheduling being that normal sources of supply are no longer
open to the UK and that current treatments may not be able to occur as openly
as they have in the past.

Howard

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 9:12:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

after living nearly a year in Holland, all I could really do was order food and count. Learning the lingo didn’t ever seem very necessary while there, unlike in France, where it was most necessary.

The difference, as far as i understand it, is that most Dutch people like
Americans, while most French loathe ’em. (of course, thats a
generalisation, so please don’t yell at me.. =) )

most French people do actually speak English, at least in the major
cities; they just wont speak it to americans…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:56:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Preston

What does ‘feeling like a top inside’ mean?

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:54:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rick

what was in the download, cos i was unable to open it?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:33:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, ccadden wrote:

I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Technically, scheduling a drug under the Controlled Substance Act is
supposed to require an act of Congress; however there have been some
drugs, such as the recent addition of 2CT7, which have been scheduled by
an “Emergency Petition” by the DEA. Really, that’s unconstitutional, since
the Executive Branch (of which the DEA is part) isn’t supposed to make
laws, just enforce them; but no one has challenged that.

The pending Salvia legislation is currently on the floor in the House of
Representatives, although it is unlikely to be voted on this session. I
believe ibogaine was scheduled by Congress in 1966, along with LSD,
mescaline, and psilocybin.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] (U.K)Class/Scedules(U.S.) of drugs
Date: October 29, 2002 at 8:23:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard

Schedule 3/Class C drugs over here include some amphetamines, benzodiazepines, Ibogaine and soon cannabis.

Hope all is well in yr life

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 29, 2002 at 7:05:01 AM EST
To: “Schwann” <schwann@webtrance.co.za>, <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <Stews@radiks.net>, <foozleman@worldnet.att.net>, <bmasel@tds.net>, <heff01@email.msn.com>, <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, <PTPEET@cs.com>, <luxefair@bellsouth.net>, <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>, <prophets@maui.net>, <m.pilkington@virgin.net>, <PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG>, <delaneyw@shasta.com>, “Edward Jahn” <ejahn@barnard.edu>, <derlock@mailexcite.com>, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, “Mitchel Cohen” <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, <miriamwhite420@hotmail.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, “George Clayton Johnson” <hempjack@earthlink.net>, <axiom@greatmystery.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for this report. I just receieved small samples of some 10x, (organic and regular), from a friend and am waiting for just the right moment to give them a try.
Having tried it only once before, I can report that I was aware, in the limited effects I got, that there was a cat-like entity watching me from just above me and to my right, simply watching me, and inside my skin, my body felt like it was spinning, but not in a dizzy-inducing way. I got up and tried to walk across my apartment and felt like a top inside but completely solid outside. Very strange sensation and it didn’t last that long.
Schwann, you sound like you prepared some strong stuff there.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Schwann
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Cc: Stews@radiks.net ; foozleman@worldnet.att.net ; bmasel@tds.net ; heff01@email.msn.com ; kingfelix@mediaone.net ; PTPEET@cs.com ; luxefair@bellsouth.net ; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com ; prophets@maui.net ; m.pilkington@virgin.net ; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG ; delaneyw@shasta.com ; Edward Jahn ; derlock@mailexcite.com ; Andre Welling ; Mitchel Cohen ; MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I ; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com ; Nick Sandberg ; George Clayton Johnson ; axiom@greatmystery.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; warcry@indymedia.org ; Jay Statzer ; preston peet
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: T-rip Report: Salvinorin A

Schwann wrote:

Salvia divinorum,

So finally, after 10 years from the time that Sd featured in my
African Space Opera, my botanist editor actually did what was
written. He has grown, prepared, and smoked, 5g of Sd at his
farm. Some hours later, I got a phone call from him, and this is what
he said:

It all started with three tattered rooted cuttings that barely made
the trip from overseas in the post. At the time I thought that I’m
probably the first person on the African continent that’s done this,
because seeds are practically unknown to this species, being only a
rare occurrence for them to flower, so fresh cuttings to survive a
two week journey through the post was already a miracle. Upon opening
the envelope, I immediately rushed them into R&R, which meant putting
them into peat moss in pots and then into ideal greenhouse
conditions. Fortunately, they responded well, and after six months I
had propagated more than 100 plants from the original three
cuttings.

I’d read (on the Net) that you could chew it, like the Mazatecs, by
placing 20 pairs of leaves into a quid in the pouch of your mouth,
allowing the active ingredient, Salvinorin A, into the bloodstream
sublingually. This method proved unsatisfactory, and effects proved
only slightly detectable, compared to what happened later.
Some months later, again on the Net, I came across an extraction
protocol using acetone to extract the salvinorin from the leaves,
resulting in a 5X smokable extract, a leafy combustible material.
This turned out to be the right solution. A very smoothly smokable
substance it turned out to be.

Here’s what happened:

It was a mid-morning week day, everyone out to work or school, my
psychonaut friend and I embarked on a mission to evaluate, what
probably amounts to the first 5X extract of Salvia divinorum
processed in Africa. We did two experiments during a lovely sunny
morning. At first, we rolled a thinny with a pinch of the moist dark
green preparation and lit up, each taking 2-3 puffs. The effects at
this stage were similar to a batch of 10X I’d had tried previously
from a friend of mine in Oregon, so when the effects started coming
on, I recognised them in this context.

The power of the drug came at me from the left and proceeded to push
me over into the couch where I sort of waited it through and within
2-3 minutes I was able to laugh it off because I imagined my friend
being worried about my mental state. Then we talked about it, and a
half-an-hour elapsed till I was ready to go again. My friend said
he’d read that the active ingredient needed relatively high
temperatures to vaporise, and that this could only be achieved in a
pipe bowl, or bhong. We hunted one down, stuffed the bowl packed
tightly with about half-a-gram of 5X and proceeded to torch the
material. My friend took the first puff, me taking the second,
hotter, deep puff, and sure enough this is where it all started.

It was only a matter of a couple of seconds before I could actually
see IT/THEM coming into my peripheral (left) vision or POV, like a
freight train coming around the corner heading straight for me.
Changing the analogy, it was also like I was gripped by my left arm,
and another hand grasping the scruff of my neck. It started pulling
me back, then around in a spiral. I imagined myself going back,
through the kitchen wall, being sucked into the kitchen cupboards,
but before I could get there it changed directions and wanted to take
me out through the front wall towards the outside of the house. The
whole while I was thinking to myself that my wife will come home and
find me DOA surrounded by paramedics. But back to what was happening.

The experience could also be compared to a wave of water coming down
a canyon, an unstoppable force equal to that of a tidal wave of some
kind of energy, a tsunami. I began to tumble from the force applied
and seemed to have one eye above water and THREE eyes below water: a
proportion of 25/75% vision/consciousness, the rest was, in an
analogy, ‘underwater’. I was totally unable to control my reactions,
it was too real, it was overwhelming, it was frightening. At that
stage I had no choice other than to go with the flow of being tumbled
down the vortex, like Alice in wonderland. It was only when it came
to the crunch that I had any choice, or so it seemed. Three quarters
though the turn of the vortex, or through the cycle of what was
happening, a fork in the path occurred and the vortex began to morph
into a split into the direction I wanted to go, and the direction
THEY wanted to go. They were pulling at me so hard that it felt like
my clothes were being ripped off my body. At this stage I had twisted
my body during the ‘turn’ and my head was on the ground while my feet
were pointing up toward a round hole of white light. I clung on for
dear life, pointing my feet towards the light while being pulled
with equal force by ‘them’ away from the light. They were pulling me
in a direction, downwards, where I didn’t want to go. At this point
I interpreted the information as a choice between life and death . I
was represented in the light by my name in golden coloured letters. I
had hold of my name with the golden thread of my toes clutching
tenaciously with the thinnest hope to ‘reality’, though I’m not sure
if this was the right way up. At that moment I said to my inner
self, “Is this it? Is this what it feels like to die? Am I gonna
die?” What an inglorious way to go, getting found on the lounge floor
by my family clutching an ‘unknown substance’ in my hands. I said NO,
I can’t, there’s too much at stake. I know this sounds funny, but
believe me, at the time it was no laughing matter.

Meantime, through all of this, my friend has this shitty grin on his
face with ‘there’s nothing I can do’, plastered all over it, and I
see him as if in a TV monitor in the emergency room. “This is it, go
with THEM, there’s nothing I can do”, he seemed to say.

You may now ask, but who are ‘THEY’? Well, I’ve spent a few days
thinking about this, and have come to the conclusion that ‘they’
represent the ‘collective unconscious of authority’, or the super-ego
inside my head. It was at about this point, after I’d said ‘NO’ to
the image of death, microseconds later, that I came gently back and
found myself looking up at my friend. I remember asking him, “is it
OK, now”. I’d laughed the first time, but this time I did not laugh.
After being ‘underwater’ for some 4 minutes, it wasn’t like I had
much oxygen left for laughing.

Cape Town, 21st October 2002

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 29, 2002 at 5:53:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First, they round up all the village idiots.
Then, with much posturing and strutting, they devour mass quantities of
food in a tax-payer funded banquet.
At the same time, one of the more eloquent idiots stands up in front
and flaps his jaws, as all the others ignore him and gorge themselves at
the feeding trough.
The eloquent idiot then sits down and begins asking his colleagues, who
really weren’t listening, whether he did okay. They each take turns
giving him strokes of high praise.

Afterward, they hang upon the wall a list of all substances that can be
conceivably called “psychoactive” or “hallucinogenic,” and they all take
turns throwing darts while downing glass after glass of alcohol.
…or so I’ve been told.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com 10/28/02 06:44PM >>>
I just asked this in another group, where we are talking about Salvia.
But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think it is a very
important
question……Who is it that decides something is illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this group knows the
answer:

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are going to be
illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re trying to fight it.
Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you want to target. If
you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off letters to
them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my
hope
that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder
Dana
+
others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of
treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this
one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist; the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn from living here
the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it, but i hope so…
=)

–

————————————————————————-
–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 3:42:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Marc ,

have you taken the stuff you are administering ?

all the best ,

Sara

From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 3:46 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 29, 2002 at 12:49:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our extract is administered for him at 37 mg/kg. He weighs 90 kilograms.
3,130 mg. total dose (representing 1,700 mg. ibogaine, 1400 mg. of eleven
iboga alkaloids).

By the way, I have a concern about benzodiazipiam in the patients system. I
am advised by someone who went through Sara’s clinic learning that these
prescription drugs in the system can induce seizures, and if seizures pose a
greater risk during iboga extract administration, if the patient is a long
term user of benzodiazipiams.

Marc Emery

“Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
(not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t hit me
enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
drugs with no problems. The first was “booster” was
needed (started having a hard time) at about 6 months
but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by which
time I started drinking somewhat.

“will go for a high dose ”

How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if you
don’t mind… <g>)

Thanks,
Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days
since his last fix and he is doing well. This week
we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his
addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get
physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we
will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations
help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He
has 3 children, and we are dosing him at his
grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do
this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
world and we are processing potential candidates as
well. We are getting an apartment where we can set
up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one
first aid training tomorrow.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] $6m question
Date: October 29, 2002 at 12:07:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/28/02 7:00:33 PM, AndriaE@aol.com writes:

Let me see; we had the recent scheduling of Ibogaine in U.K into schedule
3,
(kinda like what they are in process of doing) with cannabis here too.
So
unlikely to be an arrestable offence anymore but …

Andria,

Does that mean that schedule 3 is not a severe schedule. For instance, what
schedule is heroin in?

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 11:37:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— ccadden <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
I just asked this in another group, where we are
talking about Salvia. But
I could be asking it for ibogaine too, and I think
it is a very important
question……Who is it that decides something is
illegal? Pretend I’m
talking about iboga here. Maybe someone in this
group knows the answer:

Controlled Substances Act

Full Text at link

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/cntrlsub/cntlsbb.htm

PART B – AUTHORITY TO CONTROL; STANDARDS AND SCHEDULES

ง 811. Authority and criteria for classification of
substances.

(a) Rules and regulations of Attorney General; hearing
The Attorney General shall apply the provisions of
this subchapter to the controlled substances listed in
the schedules established by section 812 of this title
and to any other drug or other substance added to such
schedules under this subchapter. Except as provided in
subsections (d) and (e) of this section, the Attorney
General may by rule –

(1) add to such a schedule or transfer between such
schedules any drug or other substance if he –
(A) finds that such drug or other substance has a
potential for abuse, and
(B) makes with respect to such drug or other substance
the findings prescribed by subsection (b) of section
812 of this title for the schedule in which such drug
is to be placed; or
(2) remove any drug or other substance from the
schedules if he finds that the drug or other substance
does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any
schedule.
Rules of the Attorney General under this subsection
shall be made on the record after opportunity for a
hearing pursuant to the rulemaking procedures
prescribed by subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 5.
Proceedings for the issuance, amendment, or repeal of
such rules may be initiated by the Attorney General
(1) on his own motion, (2) at the request of the
Secretary, or (3) on the petition of any interested
party.

(b) Evaluation of drugs and other substances
The Attorney General shall, before initiating
proceedings under subsection (a) of this section to
control a drug or other substance or to remove a drug
or other substance entirely from the schedules, and
after gathering the necessary data, request from the
Secretary a scientific and medical evaluation, and his
recommendations, as to whether such drug or other
substance should be so controlled or removed as a
controlled substance. In making such evaluation and
recommendations, the Secretary shall consider the
factors listed in paragraphs (2), (3), (6), (7), and
(8) of subsection (c) of this section and any
scientific or medical considerations involved in
paragraphs (1), (4), and (5) of such subsection. The
recommendations of the Secretary shall include
recommendations with respect to the appropriate
schedule, if any, under which such drug or other
substance should be listed. The evaluation and the
recommendations of the Secretary shall be made in
writing and submitted to the Attorney General within a
reasonable time. The recommendations of the Secretary
to the Attorney General shall be binding on the
Attorney General as to such scientific and medical
matters, and if the Secretary recommends that a drug
or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney
General shall not control the drug or other substance.
If the Attorney General determines that these facts
and all other relevant data constitute substantial
evidence of potential for abuse such as to warrant
control or substantial evidence that the drug or other
substance should be removed entirely from the
schedules, he shall initiate proceedings for control
or removal, as the case may be, under subsection (a)
of this section.

(c) Factors determinative of control or removal from
schedules
In making any finding under subsection (a) of this
section or under subsection (b) of section 812 of this
title, the Attorney General shall consider the
following factors with respect to each drug or other
substance proposed to be controlled or removed from
the schedules:

(1) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.
(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect,
if known.
(3) The state of current scientific knowledge
regarding the drug or other substance.
(4) Its history and current pattern of abuse.
(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.
(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.
(7) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.

(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of
a substance already controlled under this subchapter.
(d) International treaties, conventions, and protocols
requiring control; procedures respecting changes in
drug schedules of Convention on Psychotropic
Substances
(1) If control is required by United States
obligations under international treaties, conventions,
or protocols in effect on October 27, 1970, the
Attorney General shall issue an order controlling such
drug under the schedule he deems most appropriate to
carry out such obligations, without regard to the
findings required by subsection (a) of this section or
section 812(b) of this title and without regard to the
procedures prescribed by subsections (a) and (b) of
this section.
(2)
(A) Whenever the Secretary of State receives
notification from the Secretary-General of the United
Nations that information has been transmitted by or to
the World Health Organization, pursuant to article 2
of the Convention on Psychotropic Substances, which
may justify adding a drug or other substance to one of
the schedules of the Convention, transferring a drug
or substance from one schedule to another, or deleting
it from the schedules, the Secretary of State shall
immediately transmit the notice to the Secretary of
Health and Human Services who shall publish it in the
Federal Register and provide opportunity to interested
persons to submit to him comments respecting the
scientific and medical evaluations which he is to
prepare respecting such drug or substance. The
Secretary of Health and Human Services shall prepare
for transmission through the Secretary of State to the
World Health Organization such medical and scientific
evaluations as may be appropriate regarding the
possible action that could be proposed by the World
Health Organization respecting the drug or substance
with respect to which a notice was transmitted under
this subparagraph.
(B) Whenever the Secretary of State receives
information that the Commission on Narcotic Drugs of
the United Nations proposes to decide whether to add a
drug or other substance to one of the schedules of the
Convention, transfer a drug or substance from one
schedule to another, or delete it from the schedules,
the Secretary of State shall transmit timely notice to
the Secretary of Health and Human Services of such
information who shall publish a summary of such
information in the Federal Register and provide
opportunity to interested persons to submit to him
comments respecting the recommendation which he is to
furnish, pursuant to this subparagraph, respecting
such proposal. The Secretary of Health and Human
Services shall evaluate the proposal and furnish a
recommendation to the Secretary of State which shall
be binding on the representative of the United States
in discussions and negotiations relating to the
proposal.
(3) When the United States receives notification of a
scheduling decision pursuant to article 2 of the
Convention on Psychotropic Substances that a drug or
other substance has been added or transferred to a
schedule specified in the notification or receives
notification (referred to in this subsection as a
”schedule notice”) that existing legal controls
applicable under this subchapter to a drug or
substance and the controls required by the Federal
Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.)
do not meet the requirements of the schedule of the
Convention in which such drug or substance has been
placed, the Secretary of Health and Human Services
after consultation with the Attorney General, shall
first determine whether existing legal controls under
this subchapter applicable to the drug or substance
and the controls required by the Federal Food, Drug,
and Cosmetic Act, meet the requirements of the
schedule specified in the notification or schedule
notice and shall take the following action:
(A) If such requirements are met by such existing
controls but the Secretary of Health and Human
Services nonetheless believes that more stringent
controls should be applied to the drug or substance,
the Secretary shall recommend to the Attorney General
that he initiate proceedings for scheduling the drug
or substance, pursuant to subsections (a) and (b) of
this section, to apply to such controls.
(B) If such requirements are not met by such existing
controls and the Secretary of Health and Human
Services concurs in the scheduling decision or
schedule notice transmitted by the notification, the
Secretary shall recommend to the Attorney General that
he initiate proceedings for scheduling the drug or
substance under the appropriate schedule pursuant to
subsections (a) and (b) of this section.
(C) If such requirements are not met by such existing
controls and the Secretary of Health and Human
Services does not concur in the scheduling decision or
schedule notice transmitted by the notification, the
Secretary shall –
(i) if he deems that additional controls are necessary
to protect the public health and safety, recommend to
the Attorney General that he initiate proceedings for
scheduling the drug or substance pursuant to
subsections (a) and (b) of this section, to apply such
additional controls;
(ii) request the Secretary of State to transmit a
notice of qualified acceptance, within the period
specified in the Convention, pursuant to paragraph 7
of article 2 of the Convention, to the
Secretary-General of the United Nations;
(iii) request the Secretary of State to transmit a
notice of qualified acceptance as prescribed in clause
(ii) and request the Secretary of State to ask for a
review by the Economic and Social Council of the
United Nations, in accordance with paragraph 8 of
article 2 of the Convention, of the scheduling
decision; or
(iv) in the case of a schedule notice, request the
Secretary of State to take appropriate action under
the Convention to initiate proceedings to remove the
drug or substance from the schedules under the
Convention or to transfer the drug or substance to a
schedule under the Convention different from the one
specified in the schedule notice.
(4)
(A) If the Attorney General determines, after
consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human
Services, that proceedings initiated under
recommendations made under paragraph (FOOTNOTE 1)
(B) or (C)(i) of paragraph (3) will not be completed
within the time period required by paragraph 7 of
article 2 of the Convention, the Attorney General,
after consultation with the Secretary and after
providing interested persons opportunity to submit
comments respecting the requirements of the temporary
order to be issued under this sentence, shall issue a
temporary order controlling the drug or substance
under schedule IV or V, whichever is most appropriate
to carry out the minimum United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention. As a
part of such order, the Attorney General shall, after
consultation with the Secretary, except such drug or
substance from the application of any provision of
part C of this subchapter which he finds is not
required to carry out the United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention. In
the case of proceedings initiated under subparagraph
(B) of paragraph (3), the Attorney General,
concurrently with the issuance of such order, shall
request the Secretary of State to transmit a notice of
qualified acceptance to the Secretary-General of the
United Nations pursuant to paragraph 7 of article 2 of
the Convention. A temporary order issued under this
subparagraph controlling a drug or other substance
subject to proceedings initiated under subsections (a)
and (b) of this section shall expire upon the
effective date of the application to the drug or
substance of the controls resulting from such
proceedings. (FOOTNOTE 1) So in original. Probably
should be ”subparagraph”.
(B) After a notice of qualified acceptance of a
scheduling decision with respect to a drug or other
substance is transmitted to the Secretary-General of
the United Nations in accordance with clause (ii) or
(iii) of paragraph (3)(C) or after a request has been
made under clause (iv) of such paragraph with respect
to a drug or substance described in a schedule notice,
the Attorney General, after consultation with the
Secretary of Health and Human Services and after
providing interested persons opportunity to submit
comments respecting the requirements of the order to
be issued under this sentence, shall issue an order
controlling the drug or substance under schedule IV or
V, whichever is most appropriate to carry out the
minimum United States obligations under paragraph 7 of
article 2 of the Convention in the case of a drug or
substance for which a notice of qualified acceptance
was transmitted or whichever the Attorney General
determines is appropriate in the case of a drug or
substance described in a schedule notice. As a part of
such order, the Attorney General shall, after
consultation with the Secretary, except such drug or
substance from the application of any provision of
part C of this subchapter which he finds is not
required to carry out the United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention. If,
as a result of a review under paragraph 8 of article 2
of the Convention of the scheduling decision with
respect to which a notice of qualified acceptance was
transmitted in accordance with clause (ii) or (iii) of
paragraph (3)(C) –
(i) the decision is reversed, and
(ii) the drug or substance subject to such decision is
not required to be controlled under schedule IV or V
to carry out the minimum United States obligations
under paragraph 7 of article 2 of the Convention,
the order issued under this subparagraph with respect
to such drug or substance shall expire upon receipt by
the United States of the review decision. If, as a
result of action taken pursuant to action initiated
under a request transmitted under clause (iv) of
paragraph (3)(C), the drug or substance with respect
to which such action was taken is not required to be
controlled under schedule IV or V, the order issued
under this paragraph with respect to such drug or
substance shall expire upon receipt by the United
States of a notice of the action taken with respect to
such drug or substance under the Convention.

(C) An order issued under subparagraph (A) or (B) may
be issued without regard to the findings required by
subsection (a) of this section or by section 812(b) of
this title and without regard to the procedures
prescribed by subsection (a) or (b) of this section.
(5) Nothing in the amendments made by the Psychotropic
Substances Act of 1978 or the regulations or orders
promulgated thereunder shall be construed to preclude
requests by the Secretary of Health and Human Services
or the Attorney General through the Secretary of
State, pursuant to article 2 or other applicable
provisions of the Convention, for review of scheduling
decisions under such Convention, based on new or
additional information.
(e) Immediate precursors
The Attorney General may, without regard to the
findings required by subsection (a) of this section or
section 812(b) of this title and without regard to the
procedures prescribed by subsections (a) and (b) of
this section, place an immediate precursor in the same
schedule in which the controlled substance of which it
is an immediate precursor is placed or in any other
schedule with a higher numerical designation. If the
Attorney General designates a substance as an
immediate precursor and places it in a schedule, other
substances shall not be placed in a schedule solely
because they are its precursors.

(f) Abuse potential
If, at the time a new-drug application is submitted to
the Secretary for any drug having a stimulant,
depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central
nervous system, it appears that such drug has an abuse
potential, such information shall be forwarded by the
Secretary to the Attorney General.

(g) Exclusion of non-narcotic substances sold over the
counter without a prescription; dextromethorphan;
exemption of substances lacking abuse potential
(1) The Attorney General shall by regulation exclude
any non-narcotic substance from a schedule if such
substance may, under the Federal Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.), be lawfully sold
over the counter without a prescription.
(2) Dextromethorphan shall not be deemed to be
included in any schedule by reason of enactment of
this subchapter unless controlled after October 27,
1970 pursuant to the foregoing provisions of this
section.
(3) The Attorney General may, by regulation, exempt
any compound, mixture, or preparation containing a
controlled substance from the application of all or
any part of this subchapter if he finds such compound,
mixture, or preparation meets the requirements of one
of the following categories:
(A) A mixture, or preparation containing a nonnarcotic
controlled substance, which mixture or preparation is
approved for prescription use, and which contains one
or more other active ingredients which are not listed
in any schedule and which are included therein in such
combinations, quantity, proportion, or concentration
as to vitiate the potential for abuse.
(B) A compound, mixture, or preparation which contains
any controlled substance, which is not for
administration to a human being or animal, and which
is packaged in such form or concentration, or with
adulterants or denaturants, so that as packaged it
does not present any significant potential for abuse.
(h) Temporary scheduling to avoid imminent hazards to
public safety
(1) If the Attorney General finds that the scheduling
of a substance in schedule I on a temporary basis is
necessary to avoid an imminent hazard to the public
safety, he may, by order and without regard to the
requirements of subsection (b) of this section
relating to the Secretary of Health and Human
Services, schedule such substance in schedule I if the
substance is not listed in any other schedule in
section 812 of this title or if no exemption or
approval is in effect for the substance under section
505 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21
U.S.C. 355). Such an order may not be issued before
the expiration of thirty days from –
(A) the date of the publication by the Attorney
General of a notice in the Federal Register of the
intention to issue such order and the grounds upon
which such order is to be issued, and
(B) the date the Attorney General has transmitted the
notice required by paragraph (4).
(2) The scheduling of a substance under this
subsection shall expire at the end of one year from
the date of the issuance of the order scheduling such
substance, except that the Attorney General may,
during the pendency of proceedings under subsection
(a)(1) of this section with respect to the substance,
extend the temporary scheduling for up to six months.
(3) When issuing an order under paragraph (1), the
Attorney General shall be required to consider, with
respect to the finding of an imminent hazard to the
public safety, only those factors set forth in
paragraphs (4), (5), and (6) of subsection (c) of this
section, including actual abuse, diversion from
legitimate channels, and clandestine importation,
manufacture, or distribution.
(4) The Attorney General shall transmit notice of an
order proposed to be issued under paragraph (1) to the
Secretary of Health and Human Services. In issuing an
order under paragraph (1), the Attorney General shall
take into consideration any comments submitted by the
Secretary in response to a notice transmitted pursuant
to this paragraph.
(5) An order issued under paragraph (1) with respect
to a substance shall be vacated upon the conclusion of
a subsequent rulemaking proceeding initiated under
subsection (a) of this section with respect to such
substance.
(6) An order issued under paragraph (1) is not subject
to judicial review.

“I don’t think I ever got a straight answer to who
actually “looks at”
these
things, and who are the people who decide they are
going to be illegal.
That’s a very important thing to know, if you’re
trying to fight it. Who
are the damn people who do all this? That’s who you
want to target. If you
don’t Salvia illegalized, you gotta start firing off
letters to them….So
who are they? I asked this in drugwar, and I got
every answer, but the
actual answer to the question.”

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government
collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i
was building up my hope
that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote
Ibogaine) No wonder Dana
+
others work so funking hard to promote this
medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are
over, this form of
treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least
Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best
could answer this one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist;
the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn
from living here the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it,
but i hope so… =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness

http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–

–

————————————————————————-
–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 28, 2002 at 11:24:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts?”

FWIW, I was treated for coke addiction with alcohol
(not physically addicted to alcohol) at 18mg/kg of
HCL, 100mg of which was an hour or so earlier as a
test dose and a few hundred mg’s when it didn’t hit me
enough (rocked/wobbled). I immediately stopped all
drugs with no problems. The first was “booster” was
needed (started having a hard time) at about 6 months
but couldn’t get it done for another 3 months by which
time I started drinking somewhat.

“will go for a high dose ”

How much were you considering, age, weight…? (if you
don’t mind… <g>)

Thanks,
Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Our last iboga extract patient is doing fine, 7 days
since his last fix and he is doing well. This week
we are dosing a crack cocaine addict who says his
addiction is entirely psychological, he doesn’t get
physical withdrawl. So no hash brownies for him, we
will go for a high dose and hope the visualizations
help him understand his dependence on cocaine. He
has 3 children, and we are dosing him at his
grandmothers residence (who is a fan of mine). We do
this on Wednesday.

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only
addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the
world and we are processing potential candidates as
well. We are getting an apartment where we can set
up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one
first aid training tomorrow.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs – Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 28, 2002 at 11:02:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

What about Montreal, and this opening in Windsor, where we can majorly influence Conyers? We need something for the EAST.

Danac/cnw

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] This weeks iboga extract administration
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:46:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Any particular advice in dealing with cocaine-only addicts? His health profile is excellent.

Marc Emery

P.S. We are getting inquiries from all over the world and we are processing potential candidates as well. We are getting an apartment where we can set up our facility. Two of my helpers finish level one first aid training tomorrow.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:34:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris

I know this doesn’t make sense.

What makes it illegal is the perception on the part of law makers
that some (young) people somewhere are using it to get high. “High”
means unauthorized access to higher consciousness. Because there is
no higher consciousness than support for a completely drug free
existence. All else is perjurious. An illegal lie. In their minds.

Go ask the two Congresspeople who introduced the bill what their
subjective interpretation is.

BTW, DEA says this stuff has low potential for abuse because only one
in twenty people do it more than once. Their law was designed to
prohibit pot, you see, or LSD– which people DO want to do again.

Dana/cnw

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:05:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

after living nearly a year in Holland, all I could really do was order food and count. Learning the lingo didn’t ever seem very necessary while there, unlike in France, where it was most necessary.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: sara glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

fine , but first you must learn the Dutch language,It is from a recorded radio programm,
and it is all in Dutch , As I said before and everybody knows they rather give Methadone then
Ibogaine , and they may think about it if Dr. Mash will say that it is safe enough .

But what is it to you ? You can go to Mexico and do it , A Dutch Junkie has no possible way
to get Ibogaine treatment unless it is a programm given by the government which isn’t yet there.

I don’t get any grants to help them , I gave 20% of the treatment gratis and other 20% for the cost of the Iboga and the food , just because there is no other way out
for many people who don’t have the money .

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

Jehova writes checks? I want one!
I too would like to see this “evidence” that sara glatt mentions.
Peace,
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

> I have hard evidence to what I said .
>
> believe it or not .
>

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] seeking the truth ?
Date: October 28, 2002 at 8:02:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:40:26 -0800 sara glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Don’t worry Steve D. I don’t mind reading your post ,

the universal truth is in everything , but not everything is the
universal truth ,

listen /read /learn can be fun too . seeking to find out ?

if anybody has a problem with understanding a political plot ,

it is because it is the most normal thing in the world all the time
,

Dr.Mash isn’t doing anything that isn’t normal , it is all very
political .

a street junkie in Amsterdam is asking , why can’t I get Ibogaine
treatment

if it works so well ?

And this is for the questions
that don’t have any answers
The midnight glances
And the topless dancers
The gang of freaks
Cars packed with speakers
The G’s with the forty’s
And the chicks with beepers
The northern lights
And the Southern Comfort
And it don’t even matter
if your veins are punctured
All the crackheads, the critics, the cynics
And all my fucking heroes in the methadone clinics

All you bastards in the IRS
For the crooked cops and the cluttered desks
For the shots of jack and the caps of meth
Half pints of love and the fifths of stress
For the hookers all trickin out in Hollywood
And for my hoods of the world misunderstood
You can look for answers, but that ain’t fun
So get in the pit and try to love someone

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Schwann <schwann@webtrance.co.za>
Subject: [ibogaine] T-rip Report: Salvinorin A
Date: October 28, 2002 at 9:17:17 PM EST
To: <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <Stews@radiks.net>, <foozleman@worldnet.att.net>, <bmasel@tds.net>, <heff01@email.msn.com>, <kingfelix@mediaone.net>, <PTPEET@cs.com>, <luxefair@bellsouth.net>, <cardboard_dada@yahoo.com>, <prophets@maui.net>, <m.pilkington@virgin.net>, <PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG>, <delaneyw@shasta.com>, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, <derlock@mailexcite.com>, Andre Welling <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I <mutanex@aloha.net>, <miriamwhite420@hotmail.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, <axiom@greatmystery.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net>, preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schwann wrote:

Salvia divinorum,

Here’s what happened:

Cape Town, 21st October 2002

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] $6m question
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:59:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris, everyone

And this sure is a tres important question.

Let me see; we had the recent scheduling of Ibogaine in U.K into schedule 3, (kinda like what they are in process of doing) with cannabis here too. So unlikely to be an arrestable offence anymore but …

Who? It’s basically a combination of people as far as I’m aware over here: The Chief medical Officer (to govt) and co ltd. I’m not an expert on this, though your question will cause me to research further over the next week, but as far as I’m aware, such a thing cannot happen without the issue going b4 our parliament ultimately, OR they just decide it without much discussion in there (as they did with cannabis). And the way that happened was through a funk of a lot of lobbying on our part, electoral pressure (from de people) and experts finally openly telling the govt that this substance was really not that dangerous. (Mind U they had done that 80yrs ago!)

A problem with all of this, is that governments change regularly, so for example IF they had not got cannabis rescheduled in statute (law) by the time another govt came in… we could actually have that decision reversed by the new govt. Unlikley but NOT impossible.

(Indeed, it could happen anyway..) i just happen to think it is unlikely at this stage because of all the MM marches, and the fact that rich/powerful people are beginning to support drug policy reform, not to mention the fact that this generation of politicians have for the most part, as opposed to popular opinion, inhaled!

andria x

Chris

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:44:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my hope
that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder Dana
+
others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of
treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist; the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn from living here the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it, but i hope so… =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–
–
————————————————————————-
–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:37:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my hope that
we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder Dana +
others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of treatment
will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this one.

well, i don’t profess to be a political scientist; the are just
observations i’ve made and conclusions i’ve drawn from living here the
past 25 years.

maybe i’m being overly pessimistic….i doubt it, but i hope so… =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:15:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow Jon

Tnx for your honesty about America; just when i was building up my hope that we could do it any other way!! (I mean promote Ibogaine) No wonder Dana + others work so funking hard to promote this medication

So truth is that until the stage 2?? trials are over, this form of treatment will REMAIN underground right? Or at least Fringe

Perhaps Howard or Dana or whomever knows best could answer this one.

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 6:07:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

As much as I respect Dr. Mash’s work, to the FDA, she is a nobody. Being
that you are not american, you may not understand the colossal mess that
is american politics. Everything in american politics is centred around
money, and most decisions are made because people with money lobby the
government.

The only way i can forsee ibogaine being approved by the FDA in the near
future (i.e. before a revolution) would be for someone to figure out a way
to make money off it. The best chances we have so far for this are Dr
Mash’s work with noribogaine, and Dr Glick’s work with 18-MC. Unlike
ibogaine, these substances could be patented, and ergo, a profit could be
made.

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] seeking the truth ?
Date: October 28, 2002 at 5:40:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t worry Steve D. I don’t mind reading your post ,
the universal truth is in everything , but not everything is the universal truth ,
listen /read /learn can be fun too . seeking to find out ?

if anybody has a problem with understanding a political plot ,
it is because it is the most normal thing in the world all the time ,
Dr.Mash isn’t doing anything that isn’t normal , it is all very political .
a street junkie in Amsterdam is asking , why can’t I get Ibogaine treatment
if it works so well ?
It isn’t up to me , I said .

Sara

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Nothing 2 apologise for
Date: October 28, 2002 at 4:50:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice
From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Nothing 2 apologise for
Date: October 28, 2002 at 4:49:55 PM EST
To: stevediamond79@hotmail.com

Dear Steve

U didn’t upset anybody that I’m aware of.

It was just that i made a mistake, assuming that we were going to keep the focus of the Ibogaine list to things directly related to people’s treatment

Apologies to U

andria
Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 4:39:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am sorry if I upset anybody with my post about Dutch political affairs. Perhaps I am more sensitive because I work in political affairs television all day.

Steve

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:00:24 EDT

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access — and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 3:32:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear sara

I don’t think people are not believing U; i think it’s more a case of not quite uinderstanding what U r writing to us

What is it U have hard evidence for exactly?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 3:16:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But what is it to you ? You can go to Mexico and do it , A Dutch Junkie has no possible way
to get Ibogaine treatment unless it is a programm given by the government which isn’t yet there.

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

> I have hard evidence to what I said .
>
> believe it or not .
>

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spelling!
Date: October 28, 2002 at 2:30:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

checks.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Spelling!

Yoh all – this is teacher Miss andria from London! Cheques is spelt like this in England – howz it spelt in U.S?

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine in Scotland
Date: October 28, 2002 at 1:54:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A query from a journalist working for the UK’s homeless mag, The Big Issue.
If anyone can help him, please mail him at the address given. He’s not on
the list.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: Liam McDougall <l.mcdougall@bigissuescotland.com>
To: <info@ibogaine.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: information

My name is Liam McDougall and I am a journalist at the Big Issue in
Scotland magazine. Obviously, being the type of magazine that we are,
we do come into contact with a large number of drug users –
especially heroin. I would be interested to know if there has been an
increase in the number of addicts who are turning to ibogaine as a
means of ridding themselves of addiction.
Would you know, for instance, if the number of Scots addicts going
down this route was increasing? Or would you be able to put me in
touch with anyone else who could help me with researching this topic?
All the best,
Liam
—
Liam McDougall
The Big Issue In Scotland
71 Oxford Street
Glasgow
G5 9EP

dd 0141 418 7053

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spelling!
Date: October 28, 2002 at 1:29:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:

in England – howz it spelt in U.S?

Spelt? isn’t that a grain, like wheat?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Spelling!
Date: October 28, 2002 at 10:56:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yoh all – this is teacher Miss andria from London! Cheques is spelt like this in England – howz it spelt in U.S?

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 10:50:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

> I have hard evidence to what I said .
>
> believe it or not .
>

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 10:09:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

I have hard evidence to what I said .

believe it or not .

What evidence would that be?

I have a feeling that if Jehovah him/herself came down to the FDA and told
them to do something, the would only listen if he brought a checkbook with
him…

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 28, 2002 at 12:49:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have hard evidence to what I said .

believe it or not .

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

Somehow I doubt just Dr. Mash’s say-so will get the FDA to do anything.
The FDA is largely led by the private interest of pharmaceutical
corporations, all it boils down to is money…

the Dutch government will not make it illegal because no one died
directly because of it and because they don’t know much about it ,

As far as I know, there have been three recorded ibogaine related
deaths…

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] v o t e n o w a r
Date: October 27, 2002 at 9:19:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

its easy. its fast. its free.

http://www.votenowar.org

stop the oil mongers and their bloody campaign.

ibogaine related? war sucks for everyone.

-DH

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Bitching ain’t good 4 us.
Date: October 27, 2002 at 8:50:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ascending is all right 🙂 I must throw in my .2 cents here too. I know addiction is a bad thing and it’s hard to be positive while you are in it and I know a lot of the people reading this list are still stuck there. But nearly all the people posting were all once in the same place and got out of there. Being miserable and depressed doesn’t help any, if you need that then go to a 12 step meeting. More then enough depression there.

I thought the conference notes were funny shit too and did not get any great sense of malice out of it. It was funny and about as harsh as a celebrity roast. And every one of those people Dana, Patrick, Mash, has made the choice to be public figures who go around writing and saying whatever it is that they individually do. Nobody told them to go do that and I’m sure each of them has had their share of being knocked and can deal with it. If you can’t then maybe you shouldn’t be doing public speaking or write things that get read by a lot of people.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :
I’m still going more with what Jon said. A visit from
the humor fairy? 😉 would go a long ways to helping
more then a few people not take everything personally.
I think mr. ascending there is cynical and angry a lot
of the time but not all of the time and some of what
he posts may not be very nice but it’s funny. I LMAO
while reading his version of the conference notes. I’m
sure they are not a accurate description of Dana, PK
or Mash, but it was really funny without being overly
vicious.

I don’t have any idea where to get copies of the
London tape, I do know it exists maybe Mindvox should
stream the video? I’ve seen a copy of a tape which is
being passed around but it’s a very bad copy that is
probably taped from copies of copies. This one has
Dana Beal and Patrick Kroupa’s talks and some minutes
of John Pablo. Dana was very professional, didn’t
mention Philip K. Dick, smoking pot or anything.
Patrick was very charismatic and is a great speaker,
he talked about his life, heroin and ibogaine. I think
he spent 30 seconds on LSD when someone in the
audience asked him about that or ketamine, I forget
and don’t have the tape to view it again but neither
one was all over the place like they are in their
conversations here. And I think PK said “fuck” no more
then 10 times in an hour 😉

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
> ? writes
> I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets
> from SF to Seattle, $400 for
> hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up
> that price? Here’s my
> version of the scheduled event 🙂
>
> Andria responds:
>
> There are people on this list who can fund such
> trips to conferences, for
> serious activists and treatment advocates. Sadly U r
> not one of them; did we
> really need to hear all this oddness about Dana, PK
> and Mash again. More to
> the point – did it help U to dump it here? (Cos if
> not,) I’m answering 200
> e’s a day, and really don’t have time 4 all this
>
> PLEASE respect the fact that most of us on the list
> are working 20/7 trying
> to make this world a better place for Drug Users
>
> Cheers
>
> andria
>
>
>
> Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
> Editor of the Users Voice

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com. Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 8:49:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

possibly “pitocin or methergine (medical synthetics to stop uterine hemorrage)” acording to someone else, but again, I am not sure of that.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

> http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
> Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
> Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months
>
> POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002
>
> MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.
>

any idea what the drug in question was?

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 8:44:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

nope, sorry.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

any idea what the drug in question was?

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Bitching ain’t good 4 us.
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:53:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m still going more with what Jon said. A visit from
the humor fairy? 😉 would go a long ways to helping
more then a few people not take everything personally.
I think mr. ascending there is cynical and angry a lot
of the time but not all of the time and some of what
he posts may not be very nice but it’s funny. I LMAO
while reading his version of the conference notes. I’m
sure they are not a accurate description of Dana, PK
or Mash, but it was really funny without being overly
vicious.

Carla B

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
? writes
I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets
from SF to Seattle, $400 for
hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up
that price? Here’s my
version of the scheduled event 🙂

Andria responds:

There are people on this list who can fund such
trips to conferences, for
serious activists and treatment advocates. Sadly U r
not one of them; did we
really need to hear all this oddness about Dana, PK
and Mash again. More to
the point – did it help U to dump it here? (Cos if
not,) I’m answering 200
e’s a day, and really don’t have time 4 all this

PLEASE respect the fact that most of us on the list
are working 20/7 trying
to make this world a better place for Drug Users

Cheers

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:39:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, I have to agree with this. All of this started
when Vector posted some message that was less then
mature. What everyone everlooked except for Jane 😉
is he said he gave it some thought and then stopped.
Even when other people picked a fight with him and
called him gay he didn’t respond. So this one teenager
had more maturity then the entire group of people who
have kept this dead conversation going for the last
week.

Thank you Vector.

Carla B

— Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

Here puddycat, puddycat, GROWL! Ok, Jon. Jane

ehehe. thanx…. =) sorry if i seemed a bit harsh,
but there’ve been a
lot bad vibes on this list, which i think could be
largely avoided if
people wouldn’t take everything everyone says quite
so seriously…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander
userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness

http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
–
–

————————————————————————–
It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on people.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:34:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

Here puddycat, puddycat, GROWL! Ok, Jon. Jane

ehehe. thanx…. =) sorry if i seemed a bit harsh, but there’ve been a
lot bad vibes on this list, which i think could be largely avoided if
people wouldn’t take everything everyone says quite so seriously…

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:25:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, preston peet wrote:

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months

POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002

MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.

any idea what the drug in question was?

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 1:46:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Ashley <ashley1980@iamwasted.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:56 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?

hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

Er, no, sorry. Though there are a few copies about. I haven’t looked at mine
yet as I hate seeing myself on video. The idea is that we’re going to copy a
load and sell them but if someone from one of the currently proposed
ibogaine conferences does this then I doubt I’ll bother.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Big brother…
Date: October 27, 2002 at 1:53:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <ascending@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Big brother…

That’s a nice start. I’ve seen that. They have pr starting in the palo
alto area. Nick Sandberg was not wrong.

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm

I wrote that piece after an ibogaine experience sometime in 99. It felt like
it was pretty much channelled really, quite a lot of people get channelling
experiences on iboga. Curiously enough, the effect is usually stronger when
you are just sitting for someone doing iboga. Most of the material for the
chapter on the occult I got whilst doing my tarot study group coursework
(which I was miles behind with at the time) in a room next to where my
brother was doing a big ibo session. It just drops out of the ether into
your head

Nick

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:18:39 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:
Hi all,

Big Brother made a step forward – thanks to FDA… And tomorrow
you’ll be
obliged by the law to have this chip implanted…

Mooooove while you can ;-))

Marko
/////////////////////////////////
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,55999,00.html

its unique ID number to a scanner. The number then accesses a computer

database containing the client’s file. Customers fill out a form
detailing
the information they want linked to their chip when they undergo
the
procedure, Cossolotto said.
Earlier this week, ADS announced that the FDA had ruled that the
VeriChip
was not a regulated device when used for “security, financial and
personal
identification/safety applications.”
The agency’s sudden approval of the microchip came despite an FDA

investigator’s concern about the potential health effects of the
device in
humans. (Microchips have been used to track animals for years.)
The company is marketing the device for a variety of security
applications,

including:
* Controlling access to physical structures, such as government
or private
sector offices or nuclear power plants. Instead of swiping a smart
card,
employees could swipe the arm containing the chip.
* Reducing financial fraud. In this scenario, people could use their
chip
to withdraw money from ATMs; their accounts could not be accessed
unless
they were physically present.
* Decreasing identity theft. People could use the chip as a password
to
access their computer at home, for example.
Cossolotto said ADS has gotten “hundreds” of inquiries from people

interested in being implanted.
Meanwhile, privacy advocates are wondering about the specter of
forced
chippings.
“(ID chips) are a form of electronic leashes, a form of digital
control,”
said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy

Information Center. “What happens if an employer makes it a condition
of
employment for a person to be implanted with the chip? It could
easily
become a condition of release for parolees or a requirement for
welfare.”
Rotenberg said EPIC has filed a Freedom of Information Request to
learn
more details about the FDA’s sudden approval of VeriChip.
The chip has also alarmed some Christians, who fear it is the biblical

“Mark of the Beast”; dozens of websites allude to the Satanic
implications

of the technology.
The company has consistently tried to allay such fears since the
chip
debuted in December 2001.
“It’s a voluntary device that we think has enormous utility,” Cossolotto

said. “This is intended for good purposes.”
ADS said seven health-care facilities, located in Arizona, Texas,
Florida
and Virginia, have signed up to distribute the chip, in addition
to
mobilizing a large bus the company has outfitted as a mobile “chipping

station.” Would-be customers can also register online.
The company plans to develop a prototype for an implantable GPS
ID chip by
the end of the year.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:52:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, sara glatt wrote:

Somehow I doubt just Dr. Mash’s say-so will get the FDA to do anything.
The FDA is largely led by the private interest of pharmaceutical
corporations, all it boils down to is money…

the Dutch government will not make it illegal because no one died directly because of it and because they don’t know much about it ,

As far as I know, there have been three recorded ibogaine related
deaths…

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:45:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here puddycat, puddycat, GROWL! Ok, Jon. Jane

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:38:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Jellking wrote:

I’m sorry brett, and all, i knew when I said “crap” this challenge
would probably7 arise, and wished I hadn’t said it. I give up. I
surrender. Women suck, and you all are right about everything. Yay
for you. Pussy, pussy, pussy. that’s all we are. Have fun. Jane

I think someone could use a visit from the Sense of Humour fairy….

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

“It’s not a war on drugs; it’s a war on Americans!”

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:37:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

DANA

Have U ever made an official application to OSI, or the Tides Foundation for money re Ibogaine-related activities?

After the Albuquerque DPA conference, i called Marsha Rosenbaum direct in Ca (director of the DPA West Coast), to ask her about something that happened at this conference, which was – she looked like she was trying to stop somebody speaking who wanted to promote this treatment. I gave her a look that coulda killed then noted that the chair of the session decided (he was in public view of everyone after all) to let the man ask his question, BUT the entire panel refused to even address/answer the question

That folks is prob.what U get when a very small no of people hold the purse-strings in the entire Reform/Treatment movement in America; I know what I’d do if I lived over there..

Anyways, I don’t – TG 4 me

Just to letcha know, and my guess is that this anecdote verifies Dana statement about OSI/Funding re Ibogaine

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Bitching ain’t good 4 us.
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:24:01 PM EST
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

? writes
I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets from SF to Seattle, $400 for hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up that price? Here’s my version of the scheduled event 🙂

Andria responds:

There are people on this list who can fund such trips to conferences, for serious activists and treatment advocates. Sadly U r not one of them; did we really need to hear all this oddness about Dana, PK and Mash again. More to the point – did it help U to dump it here? (Cos if not,) I’m answering 200 e’s a day, and really don’t have time 4 all this

PLEASE respect the fact that most of us on the list are working 20/7 trying to make this world a better place for Drug Users

Cheers

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Activists targeting prescribing docs/psychologists etc
Date: October 27, 2002 at 5:17:36 PM EST
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Les wrote:
I suspect that an educational campaign from the Ibogaine advocates and activists targeted at this particular segment of the medical field could gain a much stronger lobbying effort for legitimization and legalization inside the U.S. than attempting to patent the treatment and sell the idea to the drug manufacturing concerns.

Andria replies:
Certainly that’s my take on it, and why we had Hattie write the article for a recent Users Voice mag. Then i posted that particular edition to many prescribers, but i must say that most of them, so far, are very much into the methadone orthodoxy as it is the MOST researched treatment for opiate addicts

Tnx for the direction Les

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 27, 2002 at 4:58:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Brett Calabrese wrote:

Alison,

“pussywhipped homosexual”, now there is a new one. It
sounds good but is an oxymoron, you can’t be pussy
whipped if you are gay. It requires interest in the
“pussy” as the term “pussy” is used to refer to women
and not another definition such as “that guy is such a
pussy”, or “here pussy, good kitty” and does not mean
the genitalia of a woman either or that women are
their pussys.

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped adj 1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Definition: Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman; dominated
by a woman.
Example: 1) Doug is pussy whipped by his
girlfriend–he does everything she tells him to.

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

hmmm. it could be a homosexual that’s obsessed with cats…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 1:22:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick and Marko. I’ve always had the impression both of you
are crazy, not stupid. Somebody is fucking with both of you.
Somebody reading this list who took the time to make the message
look like it was written by Marko.

This didn’t go through the ibogaine list, it went through private
email, so this person is reading the list and then sending emails to
people personally. This is coming out of a machine in czech
republic. Which is being connected to by a dialup so unless they are
making a big bill, this person is in the czech republic.

I would guess that in addition to making it look like the two of you
are sending something (I wonder what it could be) to each other,
there was a attachment which hush automatically strips so I can’t
look at it but probably another outlook exploit.

From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Re: …on time
Cc:
Return-Path: <cyrus@imap3.hushmail.com>
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Return-Path: <info@zrcalo.si>
Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (smtp2.hushmail.com [64.40.111.32])
by imap3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE7E4482C2
for <ascending_40hushmail_2ecom@imap3.hushmail.com>; Sat, 26 Oct
2002 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])
by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 256441A95A; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Patrick (datela-1-5-6.dialup.vol.cz [212.20.98.185])
by smtp3.vol.cz (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g9QMDolB041104;
Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from info@zrcalo.si)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-Id: <200210262213.g9QMDolB041104@smtp3.vol.cz>
From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
Subject: Re: …on time
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”———-RRA1SW51N6QJ8QF”
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:13:50 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si> wrote:
<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
<iframe src=cid:Tc3fTHMGk5L8z height=0 width=0>
</iframe>

Hi Patrick, 
 
good to hear that snail-mail still works ;-) 
 
To organise a meeting, you have to provide places to sleep, places
to eat, 
conference room… And you’ll definitly need sponsors; try to get
some money 
from European Community and Open Society Institute (Soros), and
perhaps from 
more sponsors… 
 
 
Marko 
 
 
At 23:41 18. 7. 2000 +0
</BODY></HTML>

One clue is the ref to Soros. NO Soros-connected Drug Reform org
gives money for Ibogaine stuff. It could be some one who knows that
and is mocking you.

Maybe some one on the fringes of the Soros scene who wants to rub
y(our) noses in it.

Dana/cnw

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 11:30:40 AM EST
To: Iboga@guest.arnes.si, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/27/02 6:44:19 AM, Iboga@guest.arnes.si writes:

Or is it just that Brian Mariano’s computer has a nasty infection with
W32/Bugbear@MM (and perhaps something else, too), so he’s spreading this
virus all around the virtual world, and by the way making new E-mails from
different old ones, making up new E-mail accounts … I keep receiving
this virus from Howard – the only problem is that I don’t believe Howard is
@volny.cz ;-))
But this would mean that I’m not famous! <buuuh, I’m gonna cry :-((( >

I’m not sure of the fame thing but, I received the same virus from an account
in .cz that is not mine with the prefix to the @ sign being my email address.
Not from me! The virus is easy to spot. It comes as an attachment with
some html code at the top of the email text. Whoever is running a windows
environment should not download or attempt to open these attachments.

Howard

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] A different take on the importance of leadership
Date: October 27, 2002 at 11:19:11 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: “rootsofteror” <rootsofterror@yahoogroups.com>, “CRRH” <restore@crrh.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.drugwar.com/pwaltersleadership.shtm
“The Importance of Leadership”
[The following article is by rabid prohibitionist John Walters, director of
the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. This screed,
explaining why militaristic US prohibitionists say US taxpayers must help
pay for yet more DrugWar amongst and upon the people of Colombia and Mexico,
originally appeared in The Miami Herald on October 10, 2002. It is in the
public domain so there are no republication restrictions. All photos and
links giving a variety of alternative meanings Walters’ writing were added
by editor of DrugWar.com. Feel free to reprint.]
By John Walters
posted at DrugWar.com October 27, 2002

(photo)
US Drug Czar John Walters
Americans increasingly understand that our consumption of illegal drugs has
been an engine for corruption, violence, and underdevelopment in Latin
America. As with the drug problem generally, too many people have concluded
that these problems are intractable, and have written off hope for real
progress. But a string of recent elections and acts of political courage
should cause the cynics to sit up and take notice.
What we are witnessing right now in Latin America is nothing less than a
revolution in the way nations perceive the linkages between criminal and
political terrorism, drug trafficking, corruption, and weak government
institutions. Rather than meekly accepting these as facts of life, leaders
such as Mexico’s Vicente Fox and Colombia’s Alvaro Uribe are pushing back.
These developments present the United States with solid allies and hopeful
new opportunities.
snip-
Read Editorial and access multiple links at above URL
Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 9:38:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:56:13 -0700 Ashley <ashley1980@iamwasted.com> wrote:
hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for
the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

I don’t know, but this looks good.

http://www.harmreduction.org/conference/day2.html

Ibogaine: Moving beyond Agonist/Antagonist/Maintenance Medications
Towards an Addiction Interrupter Model

Dana Beal Cures not Wars New York NY
Patrick Kroupa MindVox, Inc. New York NY
Deborah C. Mash University of Miami School of Medicine Miami FL

I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets from SF to Seattle,
$400 for hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up that
price? Here’s my version of the scheduled event 🙂

Dana Beal. I was the chief theoretician of YIPL…kind of the
Michael Suslov of the counter-culture. I ran the yippies, the white
panthers, the church of Phillip K. Dick and started the entire
smoking pot is my right movement before High Times ever existed. I
am the reason that High Times and Abbie Hofman even existed. And I
have been smoking pot longer then most of you have been alive.
Ibogaine is good too, but the failure of ibogaine treatment is that
people don’t start smoking pot right away after taking ibogaine. I
know everyone from the 60’s who has stayed alive and am the only
living person who is crazier then Patrick Kroupa. Having both of us
in the same room can cause rifts in time and space to open, which
brings me to the main subject of my speech, zero point gravity
physics and is Phillip K. Dick god or the son of god. Ibogaine is
good too but let me get back to Phillip K. Dick. Phillip K. Dick
invented pot by the way.

This is not my bio, or at least the one I submitted. I no longer even
smoke pot very much– and I think this makes light of the fact that
only 60 or 70 percent of addicts who do ibogaine get off drugs
successfully–whereas because the system of separating pot from hard
drugs in Holland, 100 percent of Dutch people who never start doing
heroin because of the coffee shop system are protected from negative
consequences of addiction.

Just a thought.

Dana/cnw

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] FW: Request for information to include in Resident addiction cirriculum
Date: October 27, 2002 at 9:02:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone have ideas for addiction treatment material to
include in a residents cirriculum?

Thanks,
Brett

From another list.

“Greetings from Salt Lake City! I hope all is well.
I am writing to the list for the collective wisdom and
suggestions for the following. I have been put on a
committee to develop a cirriculum for teaching
residents in training about addiction. It will start
with internal medicine and family practice residents
then pediatric and ob/gyn residents and finally
psychiatric residents. Please tell me what you think
would be helpful, what you do or have tried and where
you get your key source materials. I thank you in
advance for your help!
”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Date: October 27, 2002 at 7:37:50 AM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/1737237/detail.html
Midwife Who Supplied Illegal Drugs Headed To Jail
Amish Woman Could Serve Up To 6 Months

POSTED: 7:46 p.m. EDT October 23, 2002

MILLERSBURG, Ohio — A midwife serving the Amish community of northeast Ohio surrendered Wednesday to begin serving a jail sentence for contempt of court.

Frieda Miller, 47, was jailed for refusing to disclose the source of drugs that she illegally gave a new mother to slow bleeding after childbirth. She could serve up to six months.

Miller pleaded guilty in May to misdemeanor charges of attempted unauthorized practice of medicine and possession of dangerous drugs.
snip-

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 6:43:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, does this mean I’m famous, me too?? <feeling VERY proud, ovations>

Or is it just that Brian Mariano’s computer has a nasty infection with W32/Bugbear@MM (and perhaps something else, too), so he’s spreading this virus all around the virtual world, and by the way making new E-mails from different old ones, making up new E-mail accounts … I keep receiving this virus from Howard – the only problem is that I don’t believe Howard is @volny.cz ;-))
But this would mean that I’m not famous! <buuuh, I’m gonna cry :-((( >

Anyway, there are at least 4 Patricks in this world – 3 of them I know personally (though 2 of them already changed their names!), and I have seen some pictures of the 4th, am reading his e-mail – so he should exist, too!

Yeah!!

Marko

At 07:26 27.10.2002, you wrote:

Dear Patrick and Marko. I’ve always had the impression both of you are crazy, not stupid. Somebody is fucking with both of you. Somebody reading this list who took the time to make the message look like it was written by Marko.

This didn’t go through the ibogaine list, it went through private email, so this person is reading the list and then sending emails to people personally. This is coming out of a machine in czech republic. Which is being connected to by a dialup so unless they are making a big bill, this person is in the czech republic.

I would guess that in addition to making it look like the two of you are sending something (I wonder what it could be) to each other, there was a attachment which hush automatically strips so I can’t look at it but probably another outlook exploit.

From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Re: …on time
Cc:
Return-Path: <cyrus@imap3.hushmail.com>
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Return-Path: <info@zrcalo.si>
Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (smtp2.hushmail.com [64.40.111.32])
by imap3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE7E4482C2
for <ascending_40hushmail_2ecom@imap3.hushmail.com>; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])
by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 256441A95A; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Patrick (datela-1-5-6.dialup.vol.cz [212.20.98.185])
by smtp3.vol.cz (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g9QMDolB041104;
Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from info@zrcalo.si)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-Id: <200210262213.g9QMDolB041104@smtp3.vol.cz>
From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
Subject: Re: …on time
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”———-RRA1SW51N6QJ8QF”
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:13:50 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si> wrote:
><HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
><iframe src=cid:Tc3fTHMGk5L8z height=0 width=0>
></iframe>
>
>Hi Patrick, 
> 
>good to hear that snail-mail still works ;-) 
> 
>To organise a meeting, you have to provide places to sleep, places
>to eat, 
>conference room… And you’ll definitly need sponsors; try to get
>some money 
>from European Community and Open Society Institute (Soros), and
>perhaps from 
>more sponsors… 
> 
> 
>Marko 
> 
> 
>At 23:41 18. 7. 2000 +0
></BODY></HTML>
>

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: …on time
Date: October 27, 2002 at 2:26:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick and Marko. I’ve always had the impression both of you are crazy, not stupid. Somebody is fucking with both of you. Somebody reading this list who took the time to make the message look like it was written by Marko.

This didn’t go through the ibogaine list, it went through private email, so this person is reading the list and then sending emails to people personally. This is coming out of a machine in czech republic. Which is being connected to by a dialup so unless they are making a big bill, this person is in the czech republic.

I would guess that in addition to making it look like the two of you are sending something (I wonder what it could be) to each other, there was a attachment which hush automatically strips so I can’t look at it but probably another outlook exploit.

From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Re: …on time
Cc:
Return-Path: <cyrus@imap3.hushmail.com>
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Return-Path: <info@zrcalo.si>
Received: from smtp2.hushmail.com (smtp2.hushmail.com [64.40.111.32])
by imap3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE7E4482C2
for <ascending_40hushmail_2ecom@imap3.hushmail.com>; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.vol.cz (smtp3.vol.cz [195.250.128.83])
by smtp2.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 256441A95A; Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Patrick (datela-1-5-6.dialup.vol.cz [212.20.98.185])
by smtp3.vol.cz (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g9QMDolB041104;
Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from info@zrcalo.si)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:13:50 +0200 (CEST)
Message-Id: <200210262213.g9QMDolB041104@smtp3.vol.cz>
From: Ustanova Iboga <info@zrcalo.si>
Subject: Re: …on time
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”———-RRA1SW51N6QJ8QF”
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Big brother…
Date: October 27, 2002 at 2:17:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s a nice start. I’ve seen that. They have pr starting in the palo alto area. Nick Sandberg was not wrong.

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:18:39 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi all,

Big Brother made a step forward – thanks to FDA… And tomorrow
you’ll be
obliged by the law to have this chip implanted…

Mooooove while you can ;-))

Marko
/////////////////////////////////
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,55999,00.html

its unique ID number to a scanner. The number then accesses a computer

“Mark of the Beast”; dozens of websites allude to the Satanic implications

of the technology.
The company has consistently tried to allay such fears since the
chip
debuted in December 2001.
“It’s a voluntary device that we think has enormous utility,” Cossolotto

station.” Would-be customers can also register online.
The company plans to develop a prototype for an implantable GPS
ID chip by
the end of the year.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 2:16:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

/ash

I don’t know, but this looks good.

http://www.harmreduction.org/conference/day2.html

Ibogaine: Moving beyond Agonist/Antagonist/Maintenance Medications Towards an Addiction Interrupter Model

Dana Beal Cures not Wars New York NY
Patrick Kroupa MindVox, Inc. New York NY
Deborah C. Mash University of Miami School of Medicine Miami FL

I’d go except that’s $600 for round trip tickets from SF to Seattle, $400 for hotels and $500 admission to this? Who thought up that price? Here’s my version of the scheduled event 🙂

Dana Beal. I was the chief theoretician of YIPL…kind of the Michael Suslov of the counter-culture. I ran the yippies, the white panthers, the church of Phillip K. Dick and started the entire smoking pot is my right movement before High Times ever existed. I am the reason that High Times and Abbie Hofman even existed. And I have been smoking pot longer then most of you have been alive. Ibogaine is good too, but the failure of ibogaine treatment is that people don’t start smoking pot right away after taking ibogaine. I know everyone from the 60’s who has stayed alive and am the only living person who is crazier then Patrick Kroupa. Having both of us in the same room can cause rifts in time and space to open, which brings me to the main subject of my speech, zero point gravity physics and is Phillip K. Dick god or the son of god. Ibogaine is good too but let me get back to Phillip K. Dick. Phillip K. Dick invented pot by the way.

Ending statement. George Bush is evil.
Theme music: Jefferson Airplane, Surrealistic Pillow

Patrick Kroupa, hardcore hacker turned hardcore junkie lowlife, turned most likely to bodily ascend into the light (purple of course) in the next 2 years. Yo, ibogaine is the fucking shit for getting you unsprung, it rocks but let me take an hour to kick it about lsd and godhead. So sit the fuck down and chill out because I will now proceed to talk like I spent half my life standing on a street corner and the other half getting 8 phd’s because my IQ is 300 points higher then you and no matter what you say I can beat you up with my mind. If that doesn’t work I’ll use a fucking tire iron in the parking lot you bitch. Spirituality is the shit man, godhead fucking rocks out and get you hella wasted dogg. I’m finishing a book, it’s called ‘Shooting up God’, it’ll be finished around when Mindvox opens. By the way Mindvox will open some time before the world ends. Time doesn’t exist anyway. Is the room melting or is that my mind again.

Ending statement. The fucking Treatment Pimps and Microsoft are evil. In no particular order, my mood changes a lot. Who is this George Bush person anyway?
Theme music: Nine Inch Nails, the Downward Spiral and King Crimson, In the Court of the Crimson King, played at random.

Dr. Mash. I am the greatest scientist who has ever lived. I have over 10,000 publications translated into every language in the world, which I have done personally. I expect to win at least 10 nobel prizes before I die. Last year I gave over 900 speeches on every subject in the world. I am smarter then you, my resume is better then yours, my clothes are better then yours, I am better then you. I am also appearing as this month’s centerfold for hotties in science. My research has proven without a doubt that ibogaine is very dangerous and must never be given under any conditions unless I’m the one selling it to you. Or you’ll die. If you’ve taken ibogaine from anyone but me and still lived then you’re going straight to hell. I have research that proves this too. I know that most of you are neither educated or wealthy, but feel free to treat me with the utmost respect or Patrick will kill you.

Ending statement. George Bush is evil.
Theme music: Puff Daddy, It’s all about the Benjamins

After the talks Dana Beal will smoke a lot of pot and everyone in the room with get a contact high whether they have their own or not and he will personally make Phillip K. Dick appear. Dr. Mash will answer your questions if youre wearing a good suit and worth at least 5 million (have notarized bank statement ready before approaching within 10 feet of Dr. Mash) and Patrick Kroupa will personally deliver salvation to every one of the 300 women who has written ‘oh my god you are so brilliant and sensitive and cute, every word you say is sheer genius!’ letters to this list in the last 6 months.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Ashley” <ashley1980@iamwasted.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] london ibogaine conference video?
Date: October 27, 2002 at 12:56:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi, i was reading this and wanted to know if the video or dvd for the
london ibogaine conference ever became available please?
http://herointimes.com/mar02/street.html

/ash

_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: fertilizing iboga plants to set seed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 1:35:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>
Cc: “Chris King” <king@math.auckland.ac.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,

If anyone can answer Chris King’s message below, please cc a reply to him at
king@math.auckland.ac.nz

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: Chris King <king@math.auckland.ac.nz>
To: Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:35 AM
Subject: fertilizing iboga plants to set seed

Nick,

Does anyone on earth know how to get iboga plants to set seed. I
have six plants but can’t find anyone on earth who knows how to get
them to set seed. The flowers have enclosed genitalia which prevents
them cross pollinating and they must use a small insect. This is very
important. If we could set seed we could supply seed.

love, Chris

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine
Date: October 26, 2002 at 1:53:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Les Smith
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine

Note of Clarification:

Obviously Methadone, SSRIs, and other “maintenance” type treatments for substance mis-use produce long-term recurring income for the pharmaceutical industry.

Any inexpensive plant extract, that does not require an intensive research and development investment, and has the potential of achieving the same results with just a single dose or two every now and then, would not meet the objectives of the stockholders even if it were found to be “safe and effective” by the FDA.

I have always thought that it was a bit silly to administer an on-going regimen of drugs to get people off of other drugs. In light of the above, I suspect that since Ibogaine therapy appears to work best in conjunction with integrative medicine professionals, the appeal for legalization should come from the mental health industry instead of the pharmaceutical industry.

Since the licensed psychologists, psychiatrists, and other therapists would have a vested interest in generating fees for working with participants before, during, and after the Ibogaine experience, they would be the ones to convince that the need is real.

I suspect that an educational campaign from the Ibogaine advocates and activists targeted at this particular segment of the medical field could gain a much stronger lobbying effort for legitimization and legalization inside the U.S. than attempting to patent the treatment and sell the idea to the drug manufacturing concerns.

Les Smith
Founder & CFO
http://www.oasismountain.org
Oasis Mountain “OM” Wellness Center

Hi Les,

Knowledge of ibogaine’s existence and potential is widening considerably anyway. I don’t think there is any problem with targeting the right people to preach to, personally. It’s more a case of how information is received. The use of psychoactive substances for psychotherapeutic purposes has been established in the past but it’s still very much a grey area. And my experience is that a lot of people in the industry will just switch off once a few of the ibogaine buzzwords such as “psychoactive” “plant-based” or “fatalities” hit their limbic area – their background in psych seemingly not counting for much. A lot comes down to the attitude of government/culture and the practice of using these types of substance just isn’t adequately accepted yet in the West. The yanks lead the cultural blitz on them and, from the mails I get, I don’t see George Bush getting any softer yet-a-while.

Iboga-knowledge increases at a good rate and if there’s a conference in Paris this winter, as planned, it’ll be another vindication for the drug. These things take time, I guess.

Just a few random thoughts

Nick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Cannabis, iboga and bwiti
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:49:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I came across this, maybe it was posted.

Entheobotany II
by Reverend Damuzi, story and photos (06 Jan, 2002)
The world’s top psychedelic researchers met on the
mountain to share their visions

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2154.html

snip

“There are 5 nations and 19 tribes in which Buiti and
Iboga are used,” said Samorini in a heavy Latin
accent. “Fang Buiti is a mixture of
Byeri [ancestor
worship], traditional Buiti [which uses Iboga], and
Christendom.”

To make contact easier, the heads of their dead
relatives are kept in boxes in the temple. Samorini
laughed and told how tribespeople, hoping to fully
initiate him into the Byeri ritual, asked him if he
couldn’t get the head of one of his dead relatives for
the temple.

Other mind-altering plants also play big roles in
ancestor worship, and in the physical and spiritual
healing of the locals of Gabon. These plants, Samorini
discovered, go by the common name for sacrament, which
is “Ibogi.”

“Cannabis is one of the Ibogi,” revealed Samorini.
“Cannabis is used in Buiti and in other religious
cults. Not everywhere, but almost everywhere.”

Just what I need MOM’s head. “AND ANOTHER THING…”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] Big brother…
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:18:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Big Brother made a step forward – thanks to FDA… And tomorrow you’ll be obliged by the law to have this chip implanted…

Mooooove while you can ;-))

Marko
/////////////////////////////////
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,55999,00.html

The maker of an implantable human ID chip has launched a national campaign to promote the device, offering $50 discounts to the first 100,000 people who register to get embedded with the microchip.
Applied Digital Solutions has coined the tagline “Get Chipped” to market its product, VeriChip.
The rice-size device costs $200. Those implanted must also pay for the doctor’s injection fee and a monthly $10 database maintenance charge, said ADS spokesman Matthew Cossolotto.
The VeriChip emits a 125-kilohertz radio frequency signal that transmits its unique ID number to a scanner. The number then accesses a computer database containing the client’s file. Customers fill out a form detailing the information they want linked to their chip when they undergo the procedure, Cossolotto said.
Earlier this week, ADS announced that the FDA had ruled that the VeriChip was not a regulated device when used for “security, financial and personal identification/safety applications.”
The agency’s sudden approval of the microchip came despite an FDA investigator’s concern about the potential health effects of the device in humans. (Microchips have been used to track animals for years.)
The company is marketing the device for a variety of security applications, including:
* Controlling access to physical structures, such as government or private sector offices or nuclear power plants. Instead of swiping a smart card, employees could swipe the arm containing the chip.
* Reducing financial fraud. In this scenario, people could use their chip to withdraw money from ATMs; their accounts could not be accessed unless they were physically present.
* Decreasing identity theft. People could use the chip as a password to access their computer at home, for example.
Cossolotto said ADS has gotten “hundreds” of inquiries from people interested in being implanted.
Meanwhile, privacy advocates are wondering about the specter of forced chippings.
“(ID chips) are a form of electronic leashes, a form of digital control,” said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. “What happens if an employer makes it a condition of employment for a person to be implanted with the chip? It could easily become a condition of release for parolees or a requirement for welfare.”
Rotenberg said EPIC has filed a Freedom of Information Request to learn more details about the FDA’s sudden approval of VeriChip.
The chip has also alarmed some Christians, who fear it is the biblical “Mark of the Beast”; dozens of websites allude to the Satanic implications of the technology.
The company has consistently tried to allay such fears since the chip debuted in December 2001.
“It’s a voluntary device that we think has enormous utility,” Cossolotto said. “This is intended for good purposes.”
ADS said seven health-care facilities, located in Arizona, Texas, Florida and Virginia, have signed up to distribute the chip, in addition to mobilizing a large bus the company has outfitted as a mobile “chipping station.” Would-be customers can also register online.
The company plans to develop a prototype for an implantable GPS ID chip by the end of the year.

From: “Les Smith” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine
Date: October 26, 2002 at 11:54:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Note of Clarification:

Obviously Methadone, SSRIs, and other “maintenance” type treatments for substance mis-use produce long-term recurring income for the pharmaceutical industry.

Les Smith
Founder & CFO
http://www.oasismountain.org
Oasis Mountain “OM” Wellness Center

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:44:47 AM
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine

Andria ,
I’m concerned that it is the ” same story” with many other health care issue’s inc. ibo. treatments .who do you believe ? Sara

Andria replies:

I believe U, and the many other100’s of activists that i’ve met around the world who have taught me that the compulsive nature of needing to accrue more power, money and prestige has made the pharmaceutical-multinationals into the voracious monsters that they have become. And yeh, as far as I’m aware, this does seem to be more endemic in the U.S. But Multi-NATIOANL means across many nations, so the rest of us are just as culpable, if we go along with it, which we do.

It’s the systems that humans have created that are corrupted often Sara. Why? Because we are essentially imperfect and rarely get things together without thinking selfishly.Yes of course, there are huge macro-politics in this, which i’m over-looking, but I do believe what i’m writing here is the essential problem
In a word: greed, (in this instance) made manifest through an economic system we call capitalism.

Gotta go swimming b4 pool closes

Good to reconnect with U again after all these yrs; wasn’t the last time we saw each other in the back of somebody’s car during a DPFoundation conf about 5 yrs ago?

andria x

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Our concerns about legal status of drugs inc. Ibogaine
Date: October 26, 2002 at 11:44:12 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria ,
I’m concerned that it is the ” same story” with many other health care issue’s inc. ibo. treatments .who do you believe ? Sara

Andria replies:

Gotta go swimming b4 pool closes

Good to reconnect with U again after all these yrs; wasn’t the last time we saw each other in the back of somebody’s car during a DPFoundation conf about 5 yrs ago?

andria x

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine’s legal status and the politics.
Date: October 26, 2002 at 11:29:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria ,
The Americans who are many millions of people can give much more money to research , the Dutch who are only 16 millions
people will not give Grands for this kind research if the Americans already have a research going ,
they just wait for the FDA ,
just look how our health care system is ,
even after knowing this info. from Britain , the Dutch government had a vaccine campaign Andria , there was no epidemie in Holland !
Meningitis advisers funded by drug firms   Fresh controversy surrounding Britain’s Meningitis C  vaccination programme   Martin Bright and Tracy McVeigh Sunday September 3, 2000 The Observer   Four of the medical experts advising the Government on whether the new meningitis C vaccine is safe have links to one or more of the drug companies that produce it, The Observer has discovered.  The revelations, following last week’s report of a cover-up of suspected adverse reactions to the drug, has prompted concern among parents and MPs about conflicts of interest in the medical profession.
The Department of Health last night confirmed that Professor Janet Darbyshire, a member of the Government’s Committee on Safety of Medicines, had received support for academic research from US firms Wyeth and Chiron, who produce the two main meningitis products being used on children in Britain: Meningitec and Meninjugate. Darbyshire is professor of epidemiology at London University and director of the Medical Research Council. DoH officials also confirmed that three members of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation had declared interests in vaccine manufacturers.
One of them, Dr David Goldblatt of the Institute of Child Health, has served on an expert advisory panel for Wyeth and received research grants from Wyeth and North American Vaccines, which produces a third meningitis C drug to be introduced this year. Another, Professor Keith Cartwright of the University of Bristol, received funding from the drug industry to ‘evaluate candidate meningicoccal vaccines’. Exposure of the links between the advisers and drugs firms came as the Government’s Chief Medical Officer reacted strongly to last week’s Observer story of how information on possible adverse reactions to the vaccine was kept from parents. In a letter to The Observer, published today, Professor Liam Donaldson insists information on reactions to vaccinations is sent, on request, to members of the public, health professionals or MPs by the Medicines Con trol Agency. ‘There is not, and never has been, a “cover-up” over releasing information about reported deaths or suspected adverse reactions following meningitis C vaccine,’ he said.
This week every GP in the country will receive a statement from the chairs of the two committees, assuring them of the safety of the meningitis C vaccine. The statement, from Professor Alasdair Breckenridge of the Committee on Safety of Medi cines, and Professor Michael Langman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, updates information made public by The Observer last weekend about bad reactions to the new vaccine reported by GPs and nurses. It says there have been 16,527 reported adverse reactions from 7,742 patients, and 12 deaths. It reiterates that none of the deaths reported by GPs was found to be connected to the vaccine.
The statement ends: ‘The balance of risk and benefit is overwhelmingly favourable. There is no suggestion that this vaccine has led to any deaths. We strongly recommend that those due for vaccination should receive meningitis C vaccine.’ Latest figures show that more than 15 million doses of the meningitis C vaccine have been give to children and teenagers in the past 10  months. Statistics from the Public Health Laboratory Service show that, in the 15-to-17-year-old group, in the last 12 weeks only six cases of meningitis were reported, compared with 26 in the same period last year. And in children under one year old, there was only one case reported in this period, compared with 19 in 1999. Incidences of meningitis continue to rise in those who have not been vaccinated.
Despite assurances that information on possible adverse reactions to the vaccine is freely available, parents calling the Medicines Control Agency told The Observer they were still being refused the data.
In north Somerset, one mother of a 13-year-old was told ‘it wasn’t necessary’ for her to have that information. ‘My son is about to have his vaccination and, after reading last week’s Observer that figures on adverse reactions existed, I wanted to see them. I believe I have a right as a mother to have all the information to hand when I make a decision,’ she said. She said the agency employee had told her: ‘Stories like this should really be taken cum grano salis – that’s a pinch of salt in English, madam.’ Another caller was told that the MCA did not have the information and referred her to her doctor. A third caller eventually managed to get a copy of the letter sent to GPs.
The figures collated by the agency are based on the ‘yellow card reporting scheme’. This seeks reports of suspected adverse reactions to drugs from health professionals. They are requested to submit reports of reactions whether or not it is clear that a drug or vaccine caused it. The 12 deaths reported under this scheme may be an underestimation, since only around 15 per cent of GPs and healthcare professionals use the yellow card scheme. The Department of Health believes that the reporting rate is higher where a new drug is involved.
The Liberal Democrat consumer affairs spokesman, Norman Baker, has tabled parliamentary questions about the financial interests of members of Department of Health advisory committees. He said last night: ‘This is a question of propriety. There must be enough independent people around to give advice without turning to those who clearly have a conflict of interests. I am not questioning their academic credentials, but with the best will in the world their judgments must be looked at in that context.’ Tory Health spokesman Liam Fox, a GP, said the Government must reassure the public.
The Secretary of State authorised the licence for the Wyeth vaccine, Meningitec, when the mass immunisation programme began last November, on advice >from the Committee on Safety of Medicines. The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation also recommended the vaccine. Wyeth spokesman Don Barrett said the amount of money paid to the academic departments of government committee members was confidential. Chiron, whose vaccine was introduced in April, stands to make $200 million from the NHS deal.
Last night the National Meningitis Trust, sponsored by Wyeth, was drawn into the controversy when it refused to disclose how much money it received >from the giant drug company. In a statement, Chief Executive Philip Kirby said: ‘We would refute in the strongest possible terms the suggestion that any information we provide is anything other than totally objective and the best available.’ This week Posh Spice Victoria Beckham revealed she had viral meningitis, a less serious type of the disease. After doctors ordered her to rest, she cancelled several appearances and flew home from Germany. Viral meningitis is an inflammation of the lining of the brain and usually clears up within a week or two without treatment.
***************
Eleven die after new vaccine jab

Martin Bright and Miles Barter
Sunday August 27, 2000
The Observer

The Government was last night accused of a cover-up over the
safety of its mass meningitis immunisation programme after The Observer obtained confidential documents that show at least 11 people have died after injections to prevent the disease.

Although doctors have reported the deaths as part of routine monitoring of effects of the vaccine to the Medicines Control Agency (MCA), the Government has not published the figures and last night insisted the programme was safe. Documents from the MCA obtained by The Observer show that since the immunisation programme began last year there have been more than 16,000 adverse reactions reported by GPs under the so-called Yellow Card system. The Department of Health estimates only 10-15 per cent of reactions are reported under the scheme so the real figure is likely to be far higher.

Britain is the first European country to introduce the vaccine. Although GPs have been told it cannot induce symptoms of meningitis, two of the deaths after vaccination have been attributed to ‘septicaemia meningicoccal’, the infection of the blood that results from the disease. Each year around 1,500 people contract meningitis C, with about 150 fatalities. The Government has said the programme had reduced cases by 70 per cent since it was introduced last year. So far 13 million babies, children and adults have been immunised. Shadow Health Secretary Liam Fox last night called on the Government to launch an inquiry into meningitis C immunisation, which was rushed in because of an expected rise in cases over the winter. ‘If information has been withheld, it will lead to suspicions that officials have not been entirely frank.

If 11 deaths have not been made public, the Government risks the public losing faith in the system. This is woefully incompetent.’ Fox, a GP himself, added: ‘Immunisation is about a balance of risks. Although the balance is almost always in favour of immunisation, without information parents cannot be expected to make an informed decision.’

A Department of Health spokeswoman said it chose not to make the deaths public for fear of panicking parents into withdrawing their children from inoculation. The Medicines Control Agency had investigated all the deaths and decided there was no evidence of a
link to the vaccines. ‘We maintain the vaccine is safe,’ she said last night.

A report from the Government’s Committee on the Safety of Medicines last Thursday gave the vaccine the all-clear after extensive inquiries into the level of reactions. The main supplier of the drug, US company Wyeth, said it had not been informed of any fatalities by the Department of Health. Spokesman Don Barrett said: ‘We are always in contact with the Department and the rate of reactions is considered to be at a very low level for the number vaccinated.’

Isabella Thomas, of vaccination support group Jabs (Justice Awareness Basic Support), said she had had reports of children having fits after being given the vaccine: ‘I am not convinced by government reassurances. We are receiving daily calls from parents whose children have had serious reactions. We believe the Government introduced it far too quickly.’ Dr Jayne Donegan, a London GP who has seen an increase in reactions among children at her surgery, spoke of a campaign, encouraged by the Government, to brand people who do not have their children vaccinated as irre sponsible. ‘This is not necessarily true, especially with something as untried as the meningitis C vaccine.’

Adam Finn, a paediatric expert at Sheffield Children’s Hospital who is carrying out trials of the vaccine, said he believed the drug was safe, although it had induced extreme reactions in some children. ‘We don’t want children having fits as a result of a drug that hasn’t been properly tested, but equally we wouldn’t want a perfectly good drug maligned on the basis of hearsay.’ He said the normal trials on a new vaccine were not possible in Britain because of the relatively small numbers of people who contracted the disease. Instead scientists had tested whether the vaccine produced sufficient antibodies.

He said the Government had a duty to give the public all relevant information about the drug: ‘The public has sufficient intelligence to make the decision for themselves. The way to get them to accept it is to tell the whole story.’ Liberal Democrat health spokesman Euan Harris said he had already raised questions in Parliament about the vaccine. ‘I am very pro-vaccinations,’ he said, ‘but I have been concerned about this.’

*****************
Andria , I’m concerned that it is the ” same story” with many other health care issue’s inc. ibo. treatments .
who do you believe ?
Sara
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine’s legal status and the politics.

Sara says:
When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should she ? The Americans are patent freaks , they sue and kil! l for a patent ,

>>Only the Americans? Betcha other countries are pretty obsessive about profit-making too Sara..no?

even when the healing plants are given to use by higher powers ,they will take one working substance out of the India’s Neem tree and make a patent while in India it has been used for centuries ,same with many other plants ,why to make it easy when you can make it difficult ? because fame and money count the most?

>> Sounds like you’re awake to me Sara. Don’t doubtr your analysis

affection & solidarity

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine’s legal status and the politics.
Date: October 26, 2002 at 7:46:08 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>Only the Americans? Betcha other countries are pretty obsessive about profit-making too Sara..no?

>> Sounds like you’re awake to me Sara. Don’t doubtr your analysis

affection & solidarity

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 7:28:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Dutch government is a joke,The dutch people voted on a dead man party, the Americans run the show anyway , When Dr. Mash will say to the FDA that Ibogaine is safe and should be provided as an treatment for addiction then the Dutch government will provide the treatment , they will not listen to Howard Lotsofor Dr. Ken Alper , she is the one who has all the power to make the change .but since she didn’t get the patent on her name why should she, for Sisko or Howard ? I doubt it .
the only thing she can get out of is that every Dr. can do it so it will give her less chance to make new discovering about Ibogaine , which can finally help her to patent something more then noribogaine . The Americans are patent freaks , they sue and kill for a patent , even when the healing plants are given to use by higher powers ,they will take one working substance out of the India’s Neem tree and make a patent while in India it has been used for centuries ,same with many other plants ,why to make it easy when you can make it difficult ? because fame and money count the most? and this is why I rather work with Iboga and not Ibogaine ,
the Dutch government will not make it illegal because no one died directly because of it and because they don’t know much about it ,
this just an idea maybe I’m wrong I don’t know everything .
Sara

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

We did? When was that?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed

We did? I’m sure Dutch treatment providers are watching this one. Seems to
me it’s pretty close to being directly affected by the outcome. So, given
this agreement, which apparently I missed, is it off-topic to mention if a
country makes ibogaine illegal? Do we just hope that people interested in
ibogaine hear about its legal status elsewhere?

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <AndriaE@aol.com>

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 6:11:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <AndriaE@aol.com>

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 26, 2002 at 5:04:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Steve

Yeh, we did, but please forgive my lack of foresight on this one. No doubt Ibogainees and their guides need to know what’s happening with Ibogaine legislation.

Apologies

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:54:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mindvox moves through all times except for this one it always seems. It made a pitstop in the 60’s and a lot of people on drugs got onboard.

Are you a new freak, a miserable still using junkie, or somebody who hit the wrong button somewhere and ended up here? This is a survey, there is no right answer.

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:37:26 -0700 Steve Valman <stevevalman@yahoo.com> wrote:

This sums everything up for me. I’m extremely confused though not
unhappy. Who
the hell are all you people and how did I land in the 60’s?

I got this line, I’m still laughing. Thanks I needed that. So much
for 15
years of therapy I guess I’m done.

DSM-IV Simplified: (Please Select) [1] Completely Fucking Crazy,
or [2] Full
of Shit.

this explains it all.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=About/Technology.html

Technology

MindVox is powered by an 8.0-liter V-13 engine. It features dual orgone injectors and a Vril supercharger; generating nearly 1.5 times infinite Horsepower (@ 9000rpm). It is housed in a floating sphere which makes use of the latest anti-gravity technology recovered from crashed UFOs. The VoxSphere is composed of ultra-lightweight composite materials designed to absorb radio energy, subpoenas, arrest warrants, and negatively-charged vibrational fields.

MindVox is fueled by a precise combination of Phenethylamines, Tryptamines, and Beta-Carbolines. On a good day it can achieve superluminal velocity using quantum electronics, wishful thinking, and the souls of its enemies. Conversely, on a bad day it may just sit in a dark room bangin’ up narcotic analgesics and burning holes in the furniture as it drops lit cigarettes all over everything while nodding out.

MindVox resonates with the harmonics of all thoughtscapes, headspaces, and dimensions. It has been online since the Dawn of Time and will spin through the tapestry of shared consensual hallucinations for All Eternity. In certain locations MindVox may appear to experience cosmic turbulence and flicker out of existence, fading like a mirage. Since time is nonlinear — time, in fact, looks like an endlessly interlocking series of spirals fragmenting inwards and outward simultaneously — this phenomenon is illusory and transient; merely indicating MindVox is Temporarily Unavailable for a few minutes, decades, or lifetimes.

MindVox runs an operating system so advanced it is incompatible with itself, but fully error-correcting. It utilizes spectrophotometric determination to weed out irregular cell morphology and is capable of compiling against the functions of an angle of incidence using a sub-femtosecond measurement of transmission delay times, in order to obtain a photonic bandgap. This will cause MindVox to drop to monitor — with or without an NMI switch — allowing you to insert a disk containing DOS 3.3, and use any hex editor to alter the DNA.

All is well. Try not to panic. Things will be EVEN BETTER than fine; the angels WANT you to be Baker-acted — no wait, wrong conversation.

MindVox is the Greatest Thing that has Ever Existed

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Steve Valman <stevevalman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:37:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This sums everything up for me. I’m extremely confused though not unhappy. Who
the hell are all you people and how did I land in the 60’s?

I got this line, I’m still laughing. Thanks I needed that. So much for 15
years of therapy I guess I’m done.

DSM-IV Simplified: (Please Select) [1] Completely Fucking Crazy, or [2] Full
of Shit.

— Occam’s Razor <occamsrazor_1956@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.

I started reading this with the last installment of Patrick Kroupa’s
addiction
series in Heroin Times. I read them all and they’re different and very good.
This is the series I’m talking about.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

Then I signed up to this list a couple of weeks ago and started reading
about
ibogaine online.

I nearly had a very long message to write before signing off but then I
thought why waste my time and yours by saying the obvious.

And maybe I’m missing something because I really related to the addiction
articles and I’m more then interested in ibogaine now.

My problems start with Mindvox. I don’t know what I was expecting but not
this. These are the exact rotating lines that I got when I first tried the
site. I know what they are because I saved the pages. After reading a
addiction series by someone who I thought is very smart and understands what
I’m going through. I sign into some kind of psychedelic temple that says
this

Warning, Site Contains: Undead, Starving, Rabid, Electrified Attack Dogs on
Speed wid Gatz

.By Divine Right, Motherfucker.

Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know
what it is except it’s been here since the internet began I guess, closed
for
a while and is now opening again. The ibogaine list has people on it from
what
looks like every crazy subculture from the late 60’s to right now. I look
some
of the speakers up and I have the yippies, the hippies, Timothy Leary at
Millbrook, the hacking underground and for some reason every one of you is
on
a ibogaine list on Mindvox.

I’m still reading because I still think that somewhere there must be some
reason for all this because every one of you act like it’s completely normal
to have these conversations about space time theory, quantum physics, spirit
entities, African cults, the war on drugs and whatever you all talk about on
a
list which has exactly nothing in common with any kind of drug rehab or
detox
list I have ever been on.

At that time my theory was that all of you have made progress. The progress
you’ve made is escaping from the detox ward and being ready for a long stay
in
the psychiatric wing which is usually located on the same floor.

I kept reading. I have read nearly the entire archives of this list and
that’s
some 3,000 messages and understood that had I ever said anything it would
have
had no effect exactly as I thought, since at least 70 or 80 people have
passed
through here and already said exactly what I would have said and after some
messages all of it always ends at, then why are you signed up to this list
and
reading all this, none of us came to you and told you that this was what you
had to do. Go away if you don’t like it.

Fair enough. I can’t fault that. In fact I give up. I want a new life. How
do
I get from here

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Evolution

To here. Here is where I want to go. I’m ready to make the change. No this
is
not a joke. This is exactly where I’d like to be, the universe filled with
entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the
treatment
pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.

How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who
have
anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because
as
you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
please.

This isnt to patrick alone although I would love to hear from him since he
never answers email. There are at least 5 of you on this list who fit very
close to this. Starting with Dave Hunter. Listed as “at the heart of it all”
in the Mindvox sacred texts with a painting of purple something I don’t know
what.

This is brilliant or psychotic or both, I don’t even care. How do I get from
120mg methadone to here. This is what I want.

On [Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 03:25:14PM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:

| >What really works is resonating with Purple and letting it flow through
| you. <
|
| This is the second or third time I’ve seen this- what does this mean,
| the reference to Purple? I mean, I love the color, one of my very
| favorites, being royalty and all, but is there something else to this?
| Is this a Philip K Dick reference or something? Or a Patrick Kroupa
| original?

Laughing… Yes, *I* invented the Purple Shit!(TM)(R)(C)(Patent Pending),
although Philip K. Dick is involved, because Valis is woven into the
strands of all reality. Just ask Dana, he’ll tell you.

Lemme look… <looking…>

Okay, HERE, The Whole Entire Truth (in its complete totality):

| But what did you do though to get somewhere? You say pieces in HT and
here,
| I think I understand some of mindvox but when I start to get it it
becomes

| imcomprehensible it’s brilliant or crazy. I know your having a book
| published or something but the only thing online that’s even close is
| http://www.mindvox.com/MindVox/Places/Texts/CrackPipe.html and it looks
like
| you cut pieces of different times from all over and threw them together.
|
| What do you do??? Really, not just the recovery talk you give people.

Nothing, anything, everything. It’s as simple or complex as you wanna
make it; change paradigms.

Usually what I do is get horny, wander around in sex for a while, which is
okay, but, if love doesn’t get mixed into the picture I wind up with the
armies of the universe inside my head; which is kinda like, oh fuck me, I
was having a great time and now there is all this shit, it’s violence,
brutality, destruction, and every single one of the energies taking part,
is all me, so I’m killing and being killed by myself; which is sick,
painful and kinda cool, all at the same time. Getting outta red and into
green is sorta a bitch because green keeps refusing to let go, usually I
spin around in all this for a while and eventually manage to hit gold, but
that’s rough for me — though, it’s getting easier — I kinda hafta slide
in sideways off of compassion and empathy to hit love. The rest is easy,
blue is intellect, that’s just online, and all of this is just a journey
on the road to the Purple Shit.

Eventually it feels sorta like blowing a load up your spine, which
probably isn’t happening, I mean, intellectually I know erection, orgasm,
ejaculation, are separate systems, but mahn, it sure feels like it. The
whirlpools spin and resolve into eyes, which blow open, hyperventilating
increases the opacity of the eyes, kinda like adjusting the alpha channel
or sumthin’, taking really slow, deep breaths, or stopping breathing for a
while, makes them expand in number and radius and blow outwards, until it
feels like you’re football stadium sized, and you’re at the Purple Shit
(TM).

The Purple Shit is everywhere, in everything, it’s energy, but alive,
sentient, and it loves you. It feels something like everything you are,
is a receiver/transmitter for channeling the Purple Shit (which ya can
call God, cosmic consciousness, whatever makes you happy).

After a while you don’t need any substances to do this anymore. It’s like
re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago, and just falling back
into it. Being in touch with this on a semi-regular basis seems to fix
90% of what’s wrong, most of the time. Though, various PieceS and tHINGs
still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.

So, mostly, on a day-to-day basis, what holds me together is blue and
green. Intellect reinforced by will. If I counted on love, positive
energy, and being happy, to consistently prevent me from bangin’ up dope,
I’d last half a day at most.

My main Unresolved Issue are The Colours. The chakras get painted with
green at the heart chakra, gold as will. I don’t see them this way,
they’re reversed. Is my energy system color blind, is everyone else
wrong, am I just that fucked up… dunno <shrug> one day I’ll prolly
resolve it.

Uhm, woops, wait no, that’s wrong.

What I meant to say was; my “recovery” hinges upon an excellent
relationship with my psychiatrist, strict adherence to a regimen of
medication, and a solid foundation built on the 12-steps. Yeah baby!

– – – – – – – – –

People who have said stuff which has a lotta resonance for me are
Muktananda and lately — thanks to Nick — Rajneesh/Osho.

A lot of books contain pieces of truth, the single greatest collection of
truth I have ever found in one place is in two books:

The Solaris System Admin Guide, by Sun Microsystems, and Machiavelli’s
cool little epic, The Prince. Though, to be honest, the religion of BSD
calls strongly to me, and I really like Mach running the BSD 4.4 kernel.

No, wait, that’s wrong too, I meant:

One’s by Alex Grey, which doesn’t have a lot of words, it’s called Sacred
Mirrors. And this was like pivotal in my life. When a lotta this first
happened, I wasn’t in an environment where it was… okay or accepted, and
as cool as it was, I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this
magazine — which was a druggie mag, not High Times, maybe Magical Blend
or sumthin’ — which had Grey’s painting called “Dying.” At the time I
didn’t know that, I thought it was Awakening, and it wuz like, holy shit,
this guy I know nothing about is painting exactly what I’m looking at. He
sees it too, I’m not crazy.

The other book is called Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, and it’s
utterly beautiful and links together such a disparate and wide-ranging
series of topics and phenomena that it’s amazing. Read this if ya read
nothing else, even maybe a few paragraphs at a time.

– – – – – – – – –

Just believe. If you believe with enough focus, a Rift in Time and Space
may open right in the middle of the Mars bar, and green ibogaine sludge
mixed with DMSO might Hurtle Downwards upon the Patrons — kinda like
Cthulhu meets the Iceman Cometh, with strands of Philip K. Dick woven in
— and a great WAVE of hEALINg will SWEEP the land, “oh my fucking god…
I’ve been drunk and strung-out for 49 years, what the hell is all this
crap I’m seeing, is this reality? Man do I need a drink.”

That concludes this evening’s sermon. Donation box is over on the left on
your way out, thank you veddy much.

In conclusion, go to a meeting and share, you’ll feel better about things.
You’re right where you need to be, it’s all part of God’s .plan for you.
Just take things one day at a time, you have a horrible disease.

And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last, when all
are one and one is all.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: ARON KAY <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies, zippies, mindvox, tap
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:05:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey olehippy what facility was nicky sands in?
ARON KAY-
http://www.pieman.org/
http://www.pieman.org/links.html
http://www.pieman.org/60smidis.htm
http://www.pieman.org/potlinks.html
http://www.pieman.org/rottenrudy.htm
http://www.pieman.org/pagec.html
http://www.pieman.org/jeffersonstarship
http://www.pieman.org/pissonbush.html
http://www.pieman.org/anti-bushlinks.html
http://www.pieman.org/fuckyouverymuchbush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/bushisachump.htm
http://www.pieman.org/lowlifebush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/assholebush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/bushposters.htm
http://www.pieman.org/naziscum.html

—– Original Message —–
From: <olehippy@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 3:01 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies, zippies, mindvox, tap

This reminds me, does anyone know Nicky Sands email address? Dana,
Patrick, Pieman? anyone? He is out of prison.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

****!!! IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND–CALL SARA,
0113134-624-1770 !!!****

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Dana what’s the difference between the yippies and hippies?

I wanted to post that also since a little while ago I am starting to
get emails from people asking me where to buy ibogaine. These emails
are not coming from yahoo or hotmail accounts they are all coming from
different internet accounts. I don’t know why anyone is sending these
questions to me because I don’t know.

I’m not posting their names because I don’t want everyone to be all
paranoid of them but it’s a little strange that these people are
filling up my email asking this when there is a guy who just posted
photos of his ibogaine plants and runs a cool entheogen shop in canada.
Why ask me?

Go look it up.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I don’t have any ibogaine and don’t know where to get it in the united
states.

.:vector:.
——

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Try to get Jerry Rubin’s book DO IT! and you’ll know all you want to
know about yippies… and more. There’s a chapter (Chapter 13, I
think) which tells about birth of YIPpies, and it starts like this:
“We got stoned so we could think logically.”
And then they made Youth International Party (YIP).
(This is according to my memory; It’s been a loong time since I read DO
IT!)

Hippies are something similar, but mainly without political aspect ;-))

Marko

—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Ordering on amazon with my next clicks 🙂

My last part of the question would be then where does the hacking
underground it into all of this? Why is patrick and mindvox and
everything tied into the yippies??

Thanks, this is fascinating. I was not even alive until the 80’s so I
don’t know! Thanks for giving me the answer instead of laughing at my
dumb question.

.:vector:.
—–

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Mahn do you people all have a lot to say the last couple of daze… Will
scan through all this and reply here, to my mail, to my phone messages,
everything, any minute now. I promise. It’s not my fault I’m
dysfunctional, plus, also, have a real job, which isn’t this.

Do0d… Who the hell knows. Forget 6 degrees of seperation, try for
maybe 3 — as per a conversation I had with Howard, which is to true
that it’s funny, or not… Synchronicity, God works in strange ways.

TAP is where it all begins… TAP was the birthplace of ThA undergrOund.
Abbie Hoffman started this thing called YIPL (Youth International Party
Lines) which turned into TAP (Technological Assistance Program). We found
TAP when we were like 12, 13 years old, because we were online by then,
and meeting other phone phreaks. The internet wasn’t quite there, it was
more blue boxing and jamming up Step by Steps and Crossbars — which NYC
had a lot of, being a very old city. DMS and ESS, and CCIS (Closed
Circuit/Channel Interoffice Signaling) didn’t exist at most CO’s (Central
Offices, not Corrections Officers) yet.

TAP was this series of meetings on the lower east side in NYC, where there
were all these crazy old people who were very excited about technology and
shit. And we were a bunch of kids who were very smart and easy to
exploit, all they had to do was give us drugs and maybe buy us some food,
and we’d FIGURE THINGS OUT and SOLVE PROBLEMS. Whoops, no, I meant to
say, they saw the beautiful light, which is truth, which is knowledge,
shining within us and wanted to nurture it. Or infect us with whatever
they had, or sumthin…

But anyway, if my parents broke my mind, society stepped on the pieces,
then THOSE PEOPLE at TAP fine-tuned the wreckage and helped articulate the
ISSUES inside.

So, that was a huge part of our wasted youth. Pieman running around;
Agent 6 — who was very MySteRioUs, until we backed him out, pulled all
his shit, and found his Secret Identity! — all these 60’s do0dz, who did
stuff long before I was alive either. I missed the whole entire 60’s, I
was still on my last life back then.

Basically, THEY were our introduction to organized madness.

I had no idea what the fuck a Yippie is either. They were just all these
crazy old people who had good drugs =)

Patrick

——

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

You know you can just put all those questions into a search engine
and get answers. Maybe not as colorful as the actual people here will
give you but still some answers 🙂

Jerry Rubin’s book is well worth reading not even if you want to feel
like you’re part of something from back then but to understand at
least where a lot of it came from.

patrick kroupa yippies
patrick kroupa yipl
patrick kroupa tap
lord digital tap
lord digital legion of doom tap

The mindvox media kit.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpage
name=Media/InternetGurus.html

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpage
name=Media/SFF.html

Peace out,
Curtis
—–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, I ran the Yippies and published the Yippie paper in the
’70’s–until Abbie came back in 1980 and asked me to cut it out.
Before that I was the chief theoretician of YIP…kind of the Michael
Suslov of the counter-culture.

Ibogaine is the fulfillment of Yippie…or at least one of the points
of the original platform, which was to fulfill the mission of
Burroughs and Ginsberg, and find an actual medical cure for heroin
addiction. (look at the intro to my book at
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html ). And they got so
close, doing ayahuasca in the Amazon (see the Yage papers)–only they
never recognized Lotsof, due to the Yippie/Zippie split I think. That
split was brought about by a conflict between Abbie and Tom Forcade,
the founder of High Times, over credit and payment for STEAL THIS
BOOK.

Dana/cnw
——-

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

I know I’m about to put my foot in my mouth but I’m baked enough to not
care.

What’s a zippie?

Are there any more vocabulary words from the 60’s I’m missing? 🙂

Hippie, yippie, zippie. Xippie?

That’s a zippie? 🙂

.:vector:
——

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I know I’m saying the obvious but I just thought I’d mention that
everyone who posts to this list is completely insane.

Then that’s the whole purpose of Mindvox isn’t it. Very nice to have
a platform to broadcast insanity. Seems very popular. Might even work
as part of the harm reduction model. seperation of mindvox from hard
drugs. no maybe i won’t smoke crack today, I’ll just see what people
on the list are saying instead same effect.

Cheers
——-

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

Brendan22 et all,

this reminds me of a very basic question, for which I’d like to know
the answer very much:

WHAT DEFINES INTELLIGENCE??
(not only in humans, but intelligence generally. Universally.

Can someone tell me this definition?

Thanks,

Marko
——

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, Marko, you were intelligent enough to notice when OVERTHROW
published the very first story about Ibogaine, for instance.

Dana/cnw
——–

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I didn’t just notice it. Something in my brains made CLICK and I KNEW
Ibogaine was something so unbelieveable crazy, unconventional,
impossible to make it available (don’t forget that I lived in
socialist/communist Yugoslavia at the time) that I simply HAD TO
involve myself in this…. I instantly KNEW it does what I was
reading…

This was not intelligence, it was emotion. Something similar happened
to me years after this, when I saw my wife for the first time ;-)))

But it was intelligent of (wat’s-her-name-again, she lives upstairs
in 9 Bleecker) that she put me on the free list of OVERTHROW
subscribers… or was it emotional, too?

There are NO coincidences!
(what about our free will???)

😉

Marko

——-

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

That was Alice. She’s still upstairs. I would like the paper to come
out again, but we would have to be able to hang on to the blg. She
put all kinds of people on that list. Did you know there were Yippies
in Athens. I would like to get back in touch with the Yippies in
Athens, for the annual march in May.

But the thing that yr talking about is not emotional, although it may
be said to be intuitive, instead of deductive. It’s PATTERN
RECOGNITION.

I have very good pattern recognition. I had the same reaction you
describe when Howard told me about Ibo.

Dana/cnw

———

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort
of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’ This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have
found you’re own daimos, it opens up somekind of doorway through which all
the universe’s energies, or whatever you’d like to call it, comes rushing
through your mind. Anyone who has been reborn can testify to this; it’s an
energy rush that suddenly gives you new sites, new views, scores of new
thought dimensions. His theory is that anyone who finds this daimos,
through ibogaine, drugs, their own soul-searching, whatever, also finds
greater intelligence. I always think of those singers who people say have
a
lot of soul, when I think of this definition. You don’t see great singers
of soul sitting around writing books on fuzzy logic. But you listen to
them, and hear that daimos coming out of them, and their way of singing
reaches parts of your mind that have been touched and that you never even
knew were there.
———–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’m not saying some are not more mature than others– just that this
is pattern recognition we’re talking about, not deduction– so that
the kind of instant “Click, I get it” response that Marko is talking
about is not a matter of mood, but cognition.

Dana/cnw
——–

From: “R.A.Venglarcik” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force. I was tired of my
work…never really seeing anyone change for the better, yet still
enjoyed working with the people. I sunk a bunch of money into
retraining. I’ve always been a geek, so I decided to make $ at it
instead of trying to save the world. I had read about ibogaine 2-3
years ago and was intrigued, but was already moving forward with the
“I’ve gotta get outta here” plan, so I set it aside. Then about a year
ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option. I told them all I
knew. Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched, it
seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. I’ve never done
ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out. For
whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed with
it in my thoughts. I have been unable to force myself to actually
pursue the career change…why? I love working with the people and
ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. Coincidence? I Don’t know. But
when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out bad.
When I don’t I shrivel up a little inside.
———–

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I agree with Dana. The human body is dependant on both emotional and
physical needs and they interact to differing degrees for each person but
both are necessary to make up the whole. Some people can be really
intelligent but lack basic common sense or empathy with others etc and
still
not be able to cope with life around them. I reckon its all a case of
balance yet again, same as food and anything else you do in life. It still
comes back to dealing with yourself in the end. Allison
——-

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there. Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose. It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. Fucking ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick
——

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d agree with what Dana said. I don’t really divide it as intelligence
and emotion, more a series of places you can have resonance with.

Just from my own experience, if you are in extremely negative spaces —
whatever they may be — if you apply focused intellect and reinforce that
with will, you can pull out of them … temporarily anyway. In the end
the only solution is to just drop it; accept it; integrate it, and none of
this is ever an intellectual sorta decision. It’s such an amazingly
beautiful thing when my mind finally shuts up. Entheogens are extremely
helpful in tearing down your reason, so you can think again.

Everything is a series of balances, a harmonic. Or it should be, when you
try to force it out of alignment, PieCeS start to blow out and come
raining down on the whole entire scenario. Which is a real bummer.

Patrick
—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

All of you should book a flight with the philip k. dick travel agency
and go give him some 🙂

.:vector:
_____________

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: olehippy@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies, zippies, mindvox, tap
Date: October 26, 2002 at 3:01:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This reminds me, does anyone know Nicky Sands email address? Dana, Patrick, Pieman? anyone? He is out of prison.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

****!!! IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND–CALL SARA,
0113134-624-1770 !!!****

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Dana what’s the difference between the yippies and hippies?

Go look it up.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I don’t have any ibogaine and don’t know where to get it in the united
states.

.:vector:.
——

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Hippies are something similar, but mainly without political aspect ;-))

Marko

—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Ordering on amazon with my next clicks 🙂

My last part of the question would be then where does the hacking
underground it into all of this? Why is patrick and mindvox and
everything tied into the yippies??

Thanks, this is fascinating. I was not even alive until the 80’s so I
don’t know! Thanks for giving me the answer instead of laughing at my
dumb question.

.:vector:.
—–

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

But anyway, if my parents broke my mind, society stepped on the pieces,
then THOSE PEOPLE at TAP fine-tuned the wreckage and helped articulate the
ISSUES inside.

Basically, THEY were our introduction to organized madness.

I had no idea what the fuck a Yippie is either. They were just all these
crazy old people who had good drugs =)

Patrick

——

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

You know you can just put all those questions into a search engine
and get answers. Maybe not as colorful as the actual people here will
give you but still some answers 🙂

Jerry Rubin’s book is well worth reading not even if you want to feel
like you’re part of something from back then but to understand at
least where a lot of it came from.

patrick kroupa yippies
patrick kroupa yipl
patrick kroupa tap
lord digital tap
lord digital legion of doom tap

The mindvox media kit.

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Media/InternetGurus.html

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Media/SFF.html

Peace out,
Curtis
—–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Dana/cnw
——-

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

I know I’m about to put my foot in my mouth but I’m baked enough to not
care.

What’s a zippie?

Are there any more vocabulary words from the 60’s I’m missing? 🙂

Hippie, yippie, zippie. Xippie?

That’s a zippie? 🙂

.:vector:
——

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I know I’m saying the obvious but I just thought I’d mention that
everyone who posts to this list is completely insane.

Cheers
——-

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Status:

Brendan22 et all,

this reminds me of a very basic question, for which I’d like to know
the answer very much:

WHAT DEFINES INTELLIGENCE??
(not only in humans, but intelligence generally. Universally.

Can someone tell me this definition?

Thanks,

Marko
——

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Well, Marko, you were intelligent enough to notice when OVERTHROW
published the very first story about Ibogaine, for instance.

Dana/cnw
——–

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

This was not intelligence, it was emotion. Something similar happened
to me years after this, when I saw my wife for the first time ;-)))

But it was intelligent of (wat’s-her-name-again, she lives upstairs
in 9 Bleecker) that she put me on the free list of OVERTHROW
subscribers… or was it emotional, too?

There are NO coincidences!
(what about our free will???)

😉

Marko

——-

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

But the thing that yr talking about is not emotional, although it may
be said to be intuitive, instead of deductive. It’s PATTERN
RECOGNITION.

I have very good pattern recognition. I had the same reaction you
describe when Howard told me about Ibo.

Dana/cnw

———

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Here’s an extremely interesting view of intelligence given to me by sort of
a modern day philosopher. The genius is someone who is in touch with
something called ‘the daimos.’ This is the part of him/herself that is
able to relate to and sync with God/theGoddess/The force. When you have
found you’re own daimos, it opens up somekind of doorway through which all
the universe’s energies, or whatever you’d like to call it, comes rushing
through your mind. Anyone who has been reborn can testify to this; it’s an
energy rush that suddenly gives you new sites, new views, scores of new
thought dimensions. His theory is that anyone who finds this daimos,
through ibogaine, drugs, their own soul-searching, whatever, also finds
greater intelligence. I always think of those singers who people say have a
lot of soul, when I think of this definition. You don’t see great singers
of soul sitting around writing books on fuzzy logic. But you listen to
them, and hear that daimos coming out of them, and their way of singing
reaches parts of your mind that have been touched and that you never even
knew were there.
———–

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Dana/cnw
——–

From: “R.A.Venglarcik” <raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I agree with Dana. The human body is dependant on both emotional and
physical needs and they interact to differing degrees for each person but
both are necessary to make up the whole. Some people can be really
intelligent but lack basic common sense or empathy with others etc and still
not be able to cope with life around them. I reckon its all a case of
balance yet again, same as food and anything else you do in life. It still
comes back to dealing with yourself in the end. Allison
——-

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick
——

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

I’d agree with what Dana said. I don’t really divide it as intelligence
and emotion, more a series of places you can have resonance with.

Patrick
—–

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails

All of you should book a flight with the philip k. dick travel agency
and go give him some 🙂

.:vector:
_____________

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: olehippy@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: October 26, 2002 at 2:48:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s a different way of looking at it.

On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:05:58 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 10:17:10PM -0400], [R.A.Venglarcik] wrote:

| Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force. I was tired
of my

| ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option. I told
them all I
| knew. Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched,
it
| seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. I’ve never
done
| ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out.
For
| whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to
bed with
| it in my thoughts. I have been unable to force myself to actually
| pursue the career change…why? I love working with the people
and
| ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. Coincidence? I Don’t know.
But
| when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns
out bad.

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine
would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there. Many things were completely not his fault,
he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be
held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose.
It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate
with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. Fucking
ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add From a self-described “Super Bitch”
Date: October 25, 2002 at 11:20:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, Viv, I agree. jane

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add From a self-described “Super Bitch”
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:49:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is Viv. Get a life, both of you! These petty
squabbles bespeak of little minds with nothing greater
to do in life but spend eternity on the computer.
Now, if you will excuse me, I have dishes to wash.

Viv

— Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com> wrote:
I’m sorry brett, and all, i knew when I said “crap”
this challenge
would probably7 arise, and wished I hadn’t said it.
I give up. I
surrender. Women suck, and you all are right about
everything. Yay
for you. Pussy, pussy, pussy. that’s all we are.
Have fun. Jane

__________________________________________________
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From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:40:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:32:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

so that people can
work together
without all this labelling crap.

When you say “crap” do you mean poop? How that label
started I never know, it went from John J Crapper
making a toilet for fecies, to them getting labeled
“crap” to somehow becomming a name for all sorts of
things. How do you think John J Crapper would feel if
he knew his good name was used in such a way, YOU
should be more sensitive

Brett

Jane

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From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:44:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, Andria. And absolutely. Jane

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From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:44:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: <AndriaE@aol.com>

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com
site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:06:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yep, there was a sound apology made by said teen, so why are we all still discussing it
He’s forgiven as far as I’m concerned many days ago, and it was im in one of my dark moods that complained in the first place

Please let’s stop using this bizz as an excuse to distract from Iboga treatment on this list. There are some wonderful detoxes going on right now, partially supported throught this list right?

with respect

Andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 25, 2002 at 8:00:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Steve, all

I thought we’d agreed that political stuff was only to go to the drugwar.com site that Preston and I moderate?

andria

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 7:44:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all, the teenager in question here made a very mature apology
that if he had by careless use of language offended anyone he was
sorry; what’s the beef now? Everyone has a right to be treated
respectfully, “even” women, “even” teenagers. Those who don’t
respect others may be expressing a reaction formation, or deep
weltschmertz, or disturbing Mars transit, or bad drunk or whatever
your point of reference, but asking them to take responsibility for
their statements is not an act of dominance (or “pussywhipping, or
ballbreaking” or whatever you want to say;) rather it is a request
for clarification and respect, so that people can work together
without all this labelling crap. Jane

__________________________________________________
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 25, 2002 at 12:38:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front

At 15:33 22.10.2002, you wrote:

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their
right to
use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something
like
Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s
Schedule 1
for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a
demand
to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

Tell this to your government and prove it to them ;-))
Life on Earth would be MUCH better if you convince them!

Marko

I agree that it definitely would, but there’s still precious little evidence
to really say this is so, as far as I know. Personally, I still rate the
version given by an interesting Finn called Ior Bock [I am The Book], final
custodian of the 10,000 year old Bock Saga. Wonder what the Bwiti would
think of the notion that the first humans originated at the exact North
Pole?

http://www.bocksaga.com/ior.html
http://www.sshoesmith.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm

All the best

Nick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 10:38:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, why couldn’t a gay guy be under the control of a
woman or dominated by a woman, even if he’s not
interested in her anatomy in a sexual manner?

They can be and often are but being “pussy whipped” by
your controlling/dominating mommy don’t work. Gay guys
often have dominating mothers and sometimes weak
(pussy?) fathers or emasculated ones. “Pussy whipped”
has to do with a woman they are romantically
interested in (the wife, the GF…). They are mutually
exclusive terms (homosexual and pussy whipped), it is
not just a woman who dominates them (eg, the boss, not
usually), at least not how the term has been used
where I come from. Of course I don’t personally use
such terms, maybe someone else has a better
understanding of its use in different situations.

Anyway, it has nothing to do with ibogaine UNLESS it
is an issue that comes out (and likely would be!)
during an ibogaine session. Hummm…..

Brett
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Alison,

“pussywhipped homosexual”, now there is a new one.
It
sounds good but is an oxymoron, you can’t be pussy
whipped if you are gay. It requires interest in
the
“pussy” as the term “pussy” is used to refer to
women
and not another definition such as “that guy is
such a
pussy”, or “here pussy, good kitty” and does not
mean
the genitalia of a woman either or that women are
their pussys.

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped adj 1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Definition: Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman;
dominated
by a woman.
Example: 1) Doug is pussy whipped by his
girlfriend–he does everything she tells him to.

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used
in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
Who said that all it took was a few comments to
turn
a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap. You want to
toughen up
guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside
out or
upside down. Get a
life, and perhaps a sense of
humour……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch
<crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the
funniest shit I’ve
read all day though. Thank you for the laugh
🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com
wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with
themselves. You’ve
taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned
him
into a
pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I
have
a lot of gay
friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour
a
day class here
http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case
Mindvox never
finishes playing with art or objects and dot
com
doesn’t come
back and I have to go get a job in a few
years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the
whole Mindvox story
but it would probably be about as uplifting as
say, Brazil, or
perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity
of
12 Monkeys and
the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving
Las
Vegas thrown
in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector
Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like
the
people on this
list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that
is
only a
reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I
can’t understand
how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to
put
her nude
photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I
mean
it’s downright
sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something.
Does
it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 9:37:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Obedient to one’s female partner;
subservient or under the control of a woman; dominated
by a woman. <

So, why couldn’t a gay guy be under the control of a woman or dominated by a woman, even if he’s not interested in her anatomy in a sexual manner?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Alison,

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped adj 1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn
> a normal teenager into
> a pussywhipped homosexual.
> What a total load of crap. You want to toughen up
> guys if thats all it
> takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or
> upside down. Get a
> life, and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
> Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
>
>
> >Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the
> funniest shit I’ve
> >read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂
> >
> >Peace out,
> >Curtis
> >
> >On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :
> >>
> >>I hope the women on this list are happy with
> themselves. You’ve
> >>taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him
> into a
> >>pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have
> a lot of gay
> >>friends.
> >>
> >>I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a
> day class here
> >>http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case
> Mindvox never
> >>finishes playing with art or objects and dot com
> doesn’t come
> >>back and I have to go get a job in a few years.
> >>
> >>I was thinking about making a movie about the
> whole Mindvox story
> >>but it would probably be about as uplifting as
> say, Brazil, or
> >>perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of
> 12 Monkeys and
> >>the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las
> Vegas thrown
> >>in.
> >>
> >>On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector
> Vector
> >><vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >I forgot to mention since I actually like the
> people on this
> >>list,
> >> > the
> >> >Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is
> only a
> >>reflection
> >> >on my
> >> >immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I
> can’t understand
> >>how
> >> >the
> >> >Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put
> her nude
> >>photos
> >> >all
> >> >over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean
> it’s downright
> >>sick
> >> >I
> >> >didn’t mean that last comment either.
> >> >
> >> >I’m in training for marriage or something. Does
> it get worse?
> >> >
> >> >.:vector:.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Get your free encrypted email at
> https://www.hushmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________
> >Give your Company an email address like
> >ravi @ ravi-exports.com. Sign up for Rediffmail
> Pro today!
> >Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 9:12:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison,

From an on-line slang dictionary

pussy whipped adj 1. obedient to one’s female
partner. (“His girlfriend had him pussy whipped.”)

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/p.html

http://ikenam.netian.com/Homepage/slang/peak-english/P.htm

Note, the use of the term “pussy” is only a used in
the context of a question of terminology and not
intended to offend anyone.

Gee, that was fun…

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn
a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap. You want to toughen up
guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or
upside down. Get a
life, and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the
funniest shit I’ve
read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with
themselves. You’ve
taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him
into a
pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have
a lot of gay
friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a
day class here
http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case
Mindvox never
finishes playing with art or objects and dot com
doesn’t come
back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the
whole Mindvox story
but it would probably be about as uplifting as
say, Brazil, or
perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of
12 Monkeys and
the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las
Vegas thrown
in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector
Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like the
people on this
list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is
only a
reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I
can’t understand
how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put
her nude
photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean
it’s downright
sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does
it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com. Sign up for Rediffmail
Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

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http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 5:29:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Alison Senepart wrote:

You might try taking your own advice….

sheeesh. where do all these humourless, soulless, grey faces come from??

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 25, 2002 at 4:50:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who said that all it took was a few comments to turn a normal teenager into
a pussywhipped homosexual.
What a total load of crap. You want to toughen up guys if thats all it
takes to upset you and turn your lives inside out or upside down. Get a
life, and perhaps a sense of humour……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 25 October 2002 11:21
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the funniest shit I’ve
read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve
taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a
pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay
friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a day class here
http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case Mindvox never
finishes playing with art or objects and dot com doesn’t come
back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the whole Mindvox story
but it would probably be about as uplifting as say, Brazil, or
perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of 12 Monkeys and
the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las Vegas thrown
in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector Vector
<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this
list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a
reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand
how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude
photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright
sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 25, 2002 at 3:33:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 00:19:38
brendan22 wrote:

For real already. To be calm and not repeat it let me give you some input.

Open it. This is fucking beautiful already.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

The only thing that’s going to change between mv04 and mv024 is insane details that nobody sees except for you people.

“God is in the details” mv04 is beautiful 🙂

I’d also like to schedule a appointment with Drew Ross’ court appointed psychiatrist. How come I never got her?

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Sacred/Gallery.html

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: October 25, 2002 at 3:31:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t mean to sound very dumb, but how do I sign into the beta software please?

Thank you.

—

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:14:37
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700], [lightstorm4@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox synthesis
| and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then absorbed by
| erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most of the
| information. Is all of this online somewhere?

Yeah, everything is intact, Atlantis is in the process of rising once
again; it is the end of days after all.

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies. Send email to accounts and
you’ll be added.

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending mail
into the year 1997. Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

Patrick

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 25, 2002 at 3:19:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For real already. To be calm and not repeat it let me give you some input.

Open it. This is fucking beautiful already.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

The only thing that’s going to change between mv04 and mv024 is insane details that nobody sees except for you people. Have you looked at slashdot, fucked co, craig’s list? They all suck and they’re all open. The hit rate for this thing when it is closed is crazy. You’ve hit 10,000 twice. People want it open. Most important I want it open, in 3 more months the phc will ddos the root servers again anyway and this time 9 will blow instead of 8 and the entire internet will go down.

The input for the beta is you have every feature ever invented, sort subject by topics using reverse leap years ending in the number 9. Your problem is that you people can do neuroscience, security, hacking, writing, art, probably sing and play guitar, but you can’t ever set down the crackpipe and just stop. Curtis is exactly right. The thing you should do now is open the goddamn site and bring 10 years that are lost in time back up. MindVox said it was going to beat guns n roses ever going on tour again. They’re about as on schedule as you, but after 9 years the dates are finally booked, you have about a month to keep your word. And you’re nearly as late.

http://gnronline.com/

Rise from the ashes already, I’m bored. You were the 3rd internet site that ever existed, you existed before WWW was here, when you finally open again the world is really going to end and I’m waiting.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:25:06 -0700 Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

I have got to go with this one too. Peeps you’re done now. Play

with the art forever for all I care, but this is beautiful, open

the fucking site bro. The beta is holding.

You are done. If any of you were within reach of me I would pull

you away from the computer, crackpipe, airbrush, same thing. It
is
time to just say no. You’re done. O p e n it 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 Vector Vector wrote :
I think they’re more interested in doing that art thing 🙂 Here

are the
10 versions or so I know about so far from crashtestdummies
offlist
mail. I’m sure there are probably 50 more but drew turned off
listing
on his directories 🙁 I’m also sure in the next months there will

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 25, 2002 at 2:51:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, steve diamond wrote:

What is Dutch public affairs doing on this site? I signed up to save my life
with the help of Ibogaine. It is bad enough that Ibo is only rarely
mentioned but this politics crap is enough to get me to sign off for good.

Well, I think this is relevant for a number of reasons. For one, the
Netherlands has one of the most progressive and most beneficial drug
policies that I know of. Also, a good deal of research on ibogaine was
conducted in the Netherlands, and a lot of ibogaine therapy is done there.

Aside from which, if you’re going to get anything out of this list, you
should try to accept the fact that we’re a chatty bunch, and have fun with
it.

Let your mind go, and the rest will follow…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 25, 2002 at 2:43:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 24 Oct 2002, Curtis Hersch wrote:

What exactly is the difference between HCL and the new extract.
From what’s been written here the old indra material was made 20
years or more ago and it is all from the same batch. What you’re
doing is making new extract right? But if it’s 560-660mg Ibogaine
per g of extract then the dosing levels that apply to indra would
no longer apply to what you’ve got. You’d be somewhere between
indra and HCL.

I don’t know much about this new extract, but I would guess that it
contains other chemicals in addition to ibogaine. The iboga plant has 12
known active alkaloids, of which ibogaine is one. Ibogaine HCL is a
pure, stable compound, which can be extracted from iboga, or synthesised.

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
Consulting Editor
Journal of Drug Education and Awareness
http://www.novapublishers.com/journals/drugawareness.html
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 24, 2002 at 10:47:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis, a few comments. I have been in contact with
Ethnogarden and am getting a grasp on what they have,
best I can from a distance anyway.

What exactly is the difference between HCL and the
new extract.

Well, one is HCL, likely somewhat synthetic and the
other is a plant extract with all the other iboga
alkaloids, it is also in freebase form so it wouldn’t
absorb quite as quickly as HCL.

From what’s been written here the old indra
material was made 20
years or more ago and it is all from the same batch.
What you’re
doing is making new extract right?

That is what they are doing.

But if it’s
560-660mg Ibogaine
per g of extract then the dosing levels that apply
to indra would
no longer apply to what you’ve got.

Correct. Being a new product and ibogaine by its very
nature unpredictable they initially believed it would
be gram for gram replacement for HCL – being that
there would be some synergy of the other alkaloids
along with the ibogaine in the extract, it turns out
not to be. It appears to be about 3/5ths as strong as
HCL by my very dirty/quick/ballpark guestimation. They
are having a full analysis done.

You’d be
somewhere between
indra and HCL.

This is my impression from reading the messages so
far and reading
Marc Emery’s posts. Which indicate a total of 700mg,
750mg, 700mg
then 400mg. For 2550mg total right?

Not quite, the last 700 dose was barfed up, not all of
it likely, I believe it was about 1/2 hour later. The
400mg was a replacement of what was not absorbed.
There was also an initial tester dose of 150mg given –
so about 2.3gm total absorbed if you figure as Marc
did that the patient lost 300mg (or so) of the 700mg –
seems ballpark right to me. Ethnogarden recommended
giving the dose spread out, maybe if given all at once
(not including the tester) the dosing would be a
little closer to HCL given all at once. So it is a
little off/different as the body will metabolize
ibogaine very rapidly. Just a thought/consideration.

Anyway, that is basically what I got from it.

Brett

Kick ass
magazine by the way
bro, I dig Cannabis Culture 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
wrote :
The first testing we had done was to isolate the
total Ibogaine
content of the extract which turned out results of
560-660mg
Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total
analysis which
will give the Total alkaloid content. These results
should be
back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our
product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga,
critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM,
bcalabrese@yahoo.com
writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark
yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a
little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at
least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should
indicate the
amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product
contains. No
one should
administer any product they are not familiar
with and
certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of
T. iboga. And
certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical
dependence.

Howard

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com. Sign up for Rediffmail Pro
today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: October 24, 2002 at 10:40:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One request, I understand you’re loading the test forums at random and
some of it is very cool but could you please load the entire message
base? How many million messages is that? I would love to see the drug
and synthesis archives that orignated here because only pieces of them
survived through hyppereal and erowid.

Thanks!

.:vector:.

— lightstorm4@hushmail.com wrote:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:14:37 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700],
[lightstorm4@hushmail.com]
wrote:

| Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox
synthesis
| and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then
absorbed
by
| erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most
of the
| information. Is all of this online somewhere?

Yeah, everything is intact, Atlantis is in the process of rising
once
again; it is the end of days after all.

Very glad to hear!

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies. Send email to accounts
and
you’ll be added.

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this
list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client
you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending
mail
into the year 1997. Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

Ahhhhhhhhh, I forgot that switch.

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

Patrick

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: Hush 2.2 (Java)
Note: This signature can be verified at
https://www.hushtools.com/verify

wmAEARECACAFAj2R/XUZHGxpZ2h0c3Rvcm00QGh1c2htYWlsLmNvbQAKCRCa2UaFFbaI
sc4zAJ9RYKAS4+XrDPvx763y6u0qhLfkOgCfSbWgSdHstUfxnhzNqmZ4t5W/oYk=
=dMFS
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “raven” <Raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Testimony
Date: October 24, 2002 at 9:25:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hit them with all the available research data…or write a concise, heavily footnoted synopsis of the available data and dumb it down to their level.

———- Original Message ———————————-
From: “Les Smith” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:15:43 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am trying to convince the Clinical Staff of the Oasis Mountain “OM”
Wellness Center in Asheville, NC, that it is advantageous to send our
program participants with substance mis-use problems to Dr. Bruno in Brazil.
I need some help in convincing our investors that this is a bona fide
therapy. Please advise.

Thanks,

Les

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 24, 2002 at 9:09:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For one thing, Steve, the Dutch government allows ibo to be used, but the
Christian Democrats were the impetus behind the new prohibitionist sentiment
there. That same sentiment is what keeps so many substances illegal here,
including ibogaine. This news that the Dutch government collapsed is good
news, but nobody’s too sure aobut the future there. Although Holland is
liberal and tolerant in regards to drug laws, the EU is not so much, and
things are getting tricky in this regard. If it all goes south, then there’s
yet less places where people can go to take ibogaine legally.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>

Nothing personal Howard but there are a lot of desparate addicts out there
who need something to hope for, something different, something that might
work better than another detox and countless meetings.

Steve Diamond

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:58:34 EDT

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (Oct. 16) – The Dutch government collapsed on
Wednesday over a ministerial feud between followers of murdered populist
Pim
Fortuyn, paving the way for elections that could relegate his chaotic party
to obscurity.

The coalition of Christian Democrats (CDA), VVD Liberals and the Pim
Fortuyn
List (LPF) crumbled after less than 100 days in office, the shortest-lived
Dutch government since World War Two.

The collapse sparked fears a lame-duck caretaker cabinet would be forced to
delay backing for the European Union’s eastward enlargement at a key
Brussels
summit next week until a new government is installed in The Hague after
fresh
elections.

But a Dutch government spokesman indicated the road to EU expansion would
be
unaffected once a caretaker government had secured parliamentary backing
for
the cabinet position.

A minority government could also be formed to stave off further
instability.

The government’s demise was precipitated by the resignation earlier on
Wednesday of LPF Deputy Prime Minister Eduard Bomhoff and Economics
Minister
Herman Heinsbroek, whose bitter differences have characterized their
divided
party.

”There is no basis for further fruitful and sustainable cooperation within
the coalition,” CDA Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende told parliament
before tendering the cabinet’s resignation to Queen Beatrix.

The LPF and VVD each had four ministers in the 14-seat cabinet formed in
July.

Polls show the party of shaven-headed gay maverick Fortuyn — who was
gunned
down only days before May elections — has hemorrhaged support since it
swept
into parliament and could face a drubbing in early elections expected
within
three months.

A new opinion poll on Wednesday showed the LPF could slump from 26 seats to
four in a new election, with the VVD the biggest beneficiary as it climbed
to
31 seats from its current 24. The CDA was seen adding six seats to its
current 43.

That would give the CDA and VVD a comfortable parliamentary majority
between
them, with 80 of the lower house’s 150 seats.

”I think voters have begun to regret the votes they cast (for the LPF),”
said VVD leader Gerrit Zalm. ”This shows how hard it is to work with a
party
that is constantly quarreling.”

FUNERAL PYRE

Political experts said the coalition — which pledged to crack down on
crime
and immigration and improve public services when it took office in July —
failed to overcome its internal difficulties to fulfill its ambitious
promises.

”Nothing got off the ground. I have the feeling I don’t know my own
country
any more,” said Henk Kummeling, a law professor at Utrecht University.

The LPF has struggled to fill the vacuum left after Fortuyn was shot dead
outside a radio station near Amsterdam. His death prompted a string of
power
struggles and confusion over party leadership.

”The LPF is brilliant at carrying wood to its own funeral pyre and
sometimes
even provides the matches,” LPF leader Mat Herben told parliament in The
Hague after a dramatic day in the Dutch political capital.

A bitter personal feud between LPF ministers Bomhoff and Heinsbroek had
been
simmering for weeks.

Heinsbroek, a swashbuckling entrepreneur with designer stubble, had been at
loggerheads with the more conservative Bomhoff over the direction and
leadership of the LPF since the two joined Balkenende’s cabinet in July.

”There was an incompatibility of personalities between me and Bomhoff,”
Heinsbroek told a news conference, saying he had resigned ”with pain in my
heart.”

”To my great regret, the developments of the last few days have
increasingly
created a situation in which it is impossible to work,” Bomhoff for his
part
told reporters in The Hague.

The conflict-riven party returned Mat Herben as its leader on Wednesday —
just before the cabinet decisively fell — only months after he was forced
to
step aside to make way for a former motoring magazine editor, Harry
Wijnschenk.

Herben had taken over the reins of the LPF after Fortuyn’s death and had
guided the party into coalition.

EU ENLARGEMENT

These are turbulent times for traditionally tranquil Dutch politics. The
last
government resigned en masse in April in delayed atonement for the
Netherlands’ role in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia.

The coalition had also struggled to overcome a deep rift over whether to
support proposals for 10 countries to join the European Union in 2004.

The EU executive said last week that former communist east European states
such as Poland and Hungary were ready to wrap up accession talks in
December
and join in 2004.

The foreign ministry spokesman said the Netherlands would make its position
clear at next week’s Brussels summit after the current government — or a
caretaker administration — had secured majority approval in parliament on
its position.

Publicly, EU leaders voiced confidence that the Netherlands would not block
enlargement.

Reut14:22 10-16-02

Copyright 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means,
is
expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters
shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any
actions taken in reliance thereon.

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: October 24, 2002 at 7:58:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is Dutch public affairs doing on this site? I signed up to save my life with the help of Ibogaine. It is bad enough that Ibo is only rarely mentioned but this politics crap is enough to get me to sign off for good.

Nothing personal Howard but there are a lot of desparate addicts out there who need something to hope for, something different, something that might work better than another detox and countless meetings.

Steve Diamond

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The Dutch government collapsed
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:58:34 EDT

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (Oct. 16) – The Dutch government collapsed on
Wednesday over a ministerial feud between followers of murdered populist Pim
Fortuyn, paving the way for elections that could relegate his chaotic party
to obscurity.

The coalition of Christian Democrats (CDA), VVD Liberals and the Pim Fortuyn
List (LPF) crumbled after less than 100 days in office, the shortest-lived
Dutch government since World War Two.

The collapse sparked fears a lame-duck caretaker cabinet would be forced to
delay backing for the European Union’s eastward enlargement at a key Brussels
summit next week until a new government is installed in The Hague after fresh
elections.

But a Dutch government spokesman indicated the road to EU expansion would be
unaffected once a caretaker government had secured parliamentary backing for
the cabinet position.

A minority government could also be formed to stave off further instability.

The government’s demise was precipitated by the resignation earlier on
Wednesday of LPF Deputy Prime Minister Eduard Bomhoff and Economics Minister
Herman Heinsbroek, whose bitter differences have characterized their divided
party.

The LPF and VVD each had four ministers in the 14-seat cabinet formed in July.

Polls show the party of shaven-headed gay maverick Fortuyn — who was gunned
down only days before May elections — has hemorrhaged support since it swept
into parliament and could face a drubbing in early elections expected within
three months.

A new opinion poll on Wednesday showed the LPF could slump from 26 seats to
four in a new election, with the VVD the biggest beneficiary as it climbed to
31 seats from its current 24. The CDA was seen adding six seats to its
current 43.

That would give the CDA and VVD a comfortable parliamentary majority between
them, with 80 of the lower house’s 150 seats.

”I think voters have begun to regret the votes they cast (for the LPF),”
said VVD leader Gerrit Zalm. ”This shows how hard it is to work with a party
that is constantly quarreling.”

FUNERAL PYRE

Political experts said the coalition — which pledged to crack down on crime
and immigration and improve public services when it took office in July —
failed to overcome its internal difficulties to fulfill its ambitious
promises.

”Nothing got off the ground. I have the feeling I don’t know my own country
any more,” said Henk Kummeling, a law professor at Utrecht University.

The LPF has struggled to fill the vacuum left after Fortuyn was shot dead
outside a radio station near Amsterdam. His death prompted a string of power
struggles and confusion over party leadership.

”The LPF is brilliant at carrying wood to its own funeral pyre and sometimes
even provides the matches,” LPF leader Mat Herben told parliament in The
Hague after a dramatic day in the Dutch political capital.

A bitter personal feud between LPF ministers Bomhoff and Heinsbroek had been
simmering for weeks.

”There was an incompatibility of personalities between me and Bomhoff,”
Heinsbroek told a news conference, saying he had resigned ”with pain in my
heart.”

”To my great regret, the developments of the last few days have increasingly
created a situation in which it is impossible to work,” Bomhoff for his part
told reporters in The Hague.

The conflict-riven party returned Mat Herben as its leader on Wednesday —
just before the cabinet decisively fell — only months after he was forced to
step aside to make way for a former motoring magazine editor, Harry
Wijnschenk.

Herben had taken over the reins of the LPF after Fortuyn’s death and had
guided the party into coalition.

EU ENLARGEMENT

These are turbulent times for traditionally tranquil Dutch politics. The last
government resigned en masse in April in delayed atonement for the
Netherlands’ role in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia.

The coalition had also struggled to overcome a deep rift over whether to
support proposals for 10 countries to join the European Union in 2004.

The EU executive said last week that former communist east European states
such as Poland and Hungary were ready to wrap up accession talks in December
and join in 2004.

Publicly, EU leaders voiced confidence that the Netherlands would not block
enlargement.

Reut14:22 10-16-02

Copyright 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is
expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters
shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any
actions taken in reliance thereon.

_________________________________________________________________
Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 24, 2002 at 7:08:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What exactly is the difference between HCL and the new extract. From what’s been written here the old indra material was made 20 years or more ago and it is all from the same batch. What you’re doing is making new extract right? But if it’s 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract then the dosing levels that apply to indra would no longer apply to what you’ve got. You’d be somewhere between indra and HCL.

This is my impression from reading the messages so far and reading Marc Emery’s posts. Which indicate a total of 700mg, 750mg, 700mg then 400mg. For 2550mg total right? Kick ass magazine by the way bro, I dig Cannabis Culture 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp. wrote :
The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

>With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
>(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
>gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
>better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
>it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).
>

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: “Les Smith” <leesmithjr@prodigy.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Testimony
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:15:43 PM EDT
To: “ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am trying to convince the Clinical Staff of the Oasis Mountain “OM” Wellness Center in Asheville, NC, that it is advantageous to send our program participants with substance mis-use problems to Dr. Bruno in Brazil. I need some help in convincing our investors that this is a bona fide therapy. Please advise.

Thanks,

Les

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:28:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the key is doing something with yourself bro. I don’t dis you and understand that the long emotional letters people write here a lot of the time are in their own way helpful to the people who write them and some who read them.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 Dave Parker wrote :

I enjoy reading this list because it is different then any drug list I have ever been on and I like the people here. I read Occams message and it made me think about a lot of things and then I read Mindvox and it made me want to ask so many questions. But none of my email is ever answered by anyone. Patrick you wrote a reply to Occams message and it was a great reply, people have reprinted and reposted it on the net and it was very thoughtful, reasonable, articulate. But I’m trying to understand a little more.

I don’t understand what Mindvox is exactly or what you’re all doing or even anything. You have symbols of chaos all over the place, chaos from what I’ve looked up is using black magic and light and accepting both. What does this mean for you? I’ve read your writing and you go from extremely intelligent and articualte to sensitive to writing a acid trip.

Reading your history and the history of here, you’re someone (Patrick) who hates the 12 steps and feel they kill people and miss no chance to give them the finger, you represent the libertarian party. Your partner’s dad started the village voice a ultra liberal democratic newspaper, he is someone who cleaned up using the 12 steps and represents them in world service, he votes republican and still supports george bush and john ashcroft. This was written to here in the near past, nobody contradicted it but nobody answered it.

The rest of your histories are nothing but this series of big disasters that never end. You have dead bodies, dead friends, lifelong drug addiction, lifelong legal problems. I’ve lost only one friend to drugs and it took me nearly 2 years of therapy to work through that. Does it just not effect you anymore after a certain level and you don’t feel it? But you must, because reading what you write you are very gifted at describing it, you do feel it.

This isn’t a letter to tell you you’re talented or kiss your ass, you look like you have more then enough people who already do that. But you don’t answer mail. What I need to know for myself and understand is how do you survive a life that is complete madness, stay off heroin and still find a way to connect to something positive like you write about in places. How do you do that? I understand the gallows humor and the funny jokes that are anything but funny, but that is only cynicism, that isn’t the purple you write about, that isn’t hope, that isn’t the connection you have.

My life is depressing for mundane simple reasons and I can’t pull out of it. How do you find that connection in a life that looks like nothing but pain, destruction, chaos? Or do you somehow connect there through what you’re doing? Is that part of what Mindvox is? Because otherwise I don’t understand. You have a site that right now on the graph is hitting 10,000. You have more people then I can imagine ever reading anything I have to say, pounding down your doors and wanting in and none of you look like you’re motivated by that at all or you would have opened it and starting selling something months ago as I think people here have mentioned so many times.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you release all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

Thank you for your time.

Dave

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:25:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have got to go with this one too. Peeps you’re done now. Play with the art forever for all I care, but this is beautiful, open the fucking site bro. The beta is holding.

You are done. If any of you were within reach of me I would pull you away from the computer, crackpipe, airbrush, same thing. It is time to just say no. You’re done. O p e n it 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 Vector Vector wrote :
I think they’re more interested in doing that art thing 🙂 Here are the
10 versions or so I know about so far from crashtestdummies offlist
mail. I’m sure there are probably 50 more but drew turned off listing
on his directories 🙁 I’m also sure in the next months there will be
another 25 before they figure out how it has to be. More sane people
might open it and then make changes as time goes by.

http://mindvox.com/~dross/new_guts/
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/mv03.html
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/MVOX-NEW-FORUM-GUI_MV03.jpg

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/
http://mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

Much more important would you people please finish Lexi Shafer’s site
already, she’s hot! 🙂

http://mindvox.com/~dross/re.jpg

My review. mv04 is beautiful. OPEN IT ALREADY!!!!!!!! And open Lexi 🙂

.:vector:.

— brendan22@hushmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Throwing that quote at google it’s a Charles Bukowski quote who is
> badass.
>
> >
> >That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that
> >true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you
> release
> >all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and
> >then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But
> >that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?
>
> DUH
>
> >
> >Thank you for your time.
> >
> >Dave
>
> Could I take this moment to remind mindvox that it should open soon.
> Could I take this moment to remind patrick he should finish his book
> soon.
> Could I take this moment to remind bruce that youre this close to
> rising from the ashes and that close to sitting in the ashes for
> another 5 years killing time.
> Could I take this moment to remind dross that he hasn’t sent me my 2
> posters in 2 weeks.
> Could I take this moment to get back to kazaa where I’m downloading.
>
>
>
>
> Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:21:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro that was cold, i go with Jon as being the funniest shit I’ve read all day though. Thank you for the laugh 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote :

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a day class here http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case Mindvox never finishes playing with art or objects and dot com doesn’t come back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the whole Mindvox story but it would probably be about as uplifting as say, Brazil, or perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of 12 Monkeys and the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las Vegas thrown in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this list,
> the
>Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a reflection
>on my
>immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand how
>the
>Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude photos
>all
>over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright sick
>I
>didn’t mean that last comment either.
>
>I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?
>
>.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:19:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro you should get around to this finally. I just re read these messages and it’s a great range of material. Your writing is kick ass and you know you’re the only person writing anything at all about holding it together after ibogaine. I know Mindvox is art and all, but at least put up some of your own material.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :

— Aktionman22@aol.com wrote:
> patrick
> where can i find your articls on addiction?
> marcus
>
>

I’m starting to feel like a secretary. I won’t mention
that it might be nice if Patrick put a addiction and
ibogaine section on Mindvox and at least reprinted his
own writings, since I already have 40 times 😉 And
it’s been promised and I guess everyone is busy making
sure it opens so I’ll just unload my bookmarks
instead.

The detoxing from ibogaine first article.

Publishing the link at ibogaine.co.uk since the layout
of heroin times makes my head hurt.

Ibogaine (from Heroin Times magazine, Feb 2001)

The much more real and less PR version which was
written to this list.

http://ibogaine.org/experience-mindvox.html

The addiction series.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

And two letters one which I think was with Dana Beal
and Howard Lotsof to a third person that Dana
published and spread around the net, the second one
was from this list. These are from some Libertarian
Party site where the owner has started printing a
ibogaine section.

http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine2.html

Somebody owes me at least coffee, ahem.. Lunch or
dinner and I’ll edit all of it and give you the html
so you don’t have to do anything except put it online
ok mr. I’m a genius who is dysfunctional? 😉

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 24, 2002 at 6:10:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, that would be a good explanation. Hash was realy helpful to me when I kicked heroin to pills to nothing. I do wish I’d had ibogaine back then instead of doing so later for spiritual reasons.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 MARC wrote :
Dana Beal called with the suggestion that my patient slept through much of
the ibogaine experience (He was very drowsy for 5 hours, then slept deeply
for 10 hours, and he’s been resting and eating like a horse since), because
of three powerful hash oil brownies I gave him the night before to sleep (it
knocked him out 12 hours, which is what happens with 3of these brownies).
Its possible the ibogaine in his stomach synergized with the THC in his
stomach/liver, and changed the experience, leaning toward comfort, sleep,
but as is true with marijuana consumers, no visualization.

However, half an hour ago, he blurted out. “You know by now I’d be running
out of the house to score, like I wouldn’t be able to take it by now…but I
feel fabulous and not stressed at all! ”

Boy, is he eating, he’s having fun eating, enjoying movies. I told him he’ll
have to practice doing pleasureable things.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

>
> In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:
>
> >Michele,
> >here is what happened yesterday:
>
> >At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
> >is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
> >remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).
>
> Marc, I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
> mg.” The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
> <snip>
>
> >consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into
> >
> >calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
> >(12
> >
> >hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
> >here.
> >
> >
> >
>
> >Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
> >through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
> contributed
> >to this result. He also commented that each individual responds
differently.
>
> Marc, just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
> Thanks on that. Would be very interested to have your report on what the
> subject thinks of his experience. Or better yet, let him provide his own
> report to the mindvox ibogaine list.
>
> Howard
>
>

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 24, 2002 at 11:26:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Marc ,

after a treatment with me people start eating little by little after the
iboga trip ,

you must look to it that your friend has a good diet and not eating like a
horse ,
fruit wouldn’t be too bad ,
It isn’t very good to be fasting and then eat a lot at once ,
this is wat I would like you to think about ,
also when he will go down from the iboga -hash high
he could get really down few weeks later , he should have still some support
as aftercare ,

take care,

Sara

—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

Dana Beal called with the suggestion that my patient slept through much of
the ibogaine experience (He was very drowsy for 5 hours, then slept deeply
for 10 hours, and he’s been resting and eating like a horse since),
because
of three powerful hash oil brownies I gave him the night before to sleep
(it
knocked him out 12 hours, which is what happens with 3of these brownies).
Its possible the ibogaine in his stomach synergized with the THC in his
stomach/liver, and changed the experience, leaning toward comfort, sleep,
but as is true with marijuana consumers, no visualization.

However, half an hour ago, he blurted out. “You know by now I’d be running
out of the house to score, like I wouldn’t be able to take it by now…but
I
feel fabulous and not stressed at all! ”

Boy, is he eating, he’s having fun eating, enjoying movies. I told him
he’ll
have to practice doing pleasureable things.

Marc

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine,
the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).

Marc, I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of
1
mg.” The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping
through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new,
contributed
to this result. He also commented that each individual responds
differently.

Marc, just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that. Would be very interested to have your report on what
the
subject thinks of his experience. Or better yet, let him provide his
own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 24, 2002 at 7:17:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Joshua, Joshua,
This is a great page. Thanks for posting this.
I’m currently waiting to try some of this stuff again, two different kinds, and will alert you all to my review, once written.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: Ibogaine
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me through the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

– jt

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 24, 2002 at 12:24:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanx carla for patrick’s addiction linx.
too bad the dysfunctional genius doesnt take you up on that offer. i would!

marcus

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 24, 2002 at 12:17:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana Beal called with the suggestion that my patient slept through much of
the ibogaine experience (He was very drowsy for 5 hours, then slept deeply
for 10 hours, and he’s been resting and eating like a horse since), because
of three powerful hash oil brownies I gave him the night before to sleep (it
knocked him out 12 hours, which is what happens with 3of these brownies).
Its possible the ibogaine in his stomach synergized with the THC in his
stomach/liver, and changed the experience, leaning toward comfort, sleep,
but as is true with marijuana consumers, no visualization.

However, half an hour ago, he blurted out. “You know by now I’d be running
out of the house to score, like I wouldn’t be able to take it by now…but I
feel fabulous and not stressed at all! ”

Boy, is he eating, he’s having fun eating, enjoying movies. I told him he’ll
have to practice doing pleasureable things.

Marc

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).

Marc, I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
mg.” The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Marc, just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that. Would be very interested to have your report on what the
subject thinks of his experience. Or better yet, let him provide his own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 23, 2002 at 10:18:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Aktionman22@aol.com wrote:
patrick
where can i find your articls on addiction?
marcus

The detoxing from ibogaine first article.

Publishing the link at ibogaine.co.uk since the layout
of heroin times makes my head hurt.

Ibogaine (from Heroin Times magazine, Feb 2001)

The much more real and less PR version which was
written to this list.

http://ibogaine.org/experience-mindvox.html

The addiction series.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
http://www.billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine2.html

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information page
Date: October 23, 2002 at 8:40:25 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I put together a page about the current situation regarding the legal status
of Salvia Divinorum in the US.

Salvia Divinorum Legal Status Information, updated frequently:
http://home.pacbell.net/jtinnin/salvia/

All submissions, suggestions and corrections welcome. Contact me through the
list, or at my address: krinklyfig@myrealbox.com

– jt

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] There is certainly light at the end of the tunnel.
Date: October 23, 2002 at 6:37:37 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston wrote
But best of luck with this endeavor. As someone, (like many here) I’ve gone through similar situations, and know how difficult it can be trying to get off the dope. So while I cannot exactly empathize with the ibogaine route, I can extend my best wishes in your and your son’s direction, and I do.
Andria responds
Yes, Isecond Preston sentiments with all my heart. Coming off dope is not east BUt as my galfriend said when i phoned her in desperation from detox, there is light at the end of the tunnel

Be strong, be hopeful
From ex-dopefiend in London U.K.

andria mordaunt

Peace,
Preston Peet

Director of the John Mordaunt Trust
Editor of the Users Voice

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] To answer Howard’s questions
Date: October 23, 2002 at 4:32:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As I understand the iboga product I have, from enthnogarden, is, in its
constituents, of one gram, 550 mg – 650 mg. are of ibogaine, the other 350 –
450 mg. are of the other eleven alkaloids of the iboga. If I understand
correctly.

As of 1.20 p.m. Wednesday, 20 hours since first ingestion of first dose,
46.5 hours since patient had a narcotic, the patient is resting briefly now,
after being up and active for 5 hours. Is increasingly happier at
realization that there are no withdrawl symptoms. Wants to work with us on
this ibogaine. Can’t understand why neither he nor anyone he knows had ever
heard of ibogaine. Is getting a bit excited at his prospects. I asked him if
he wanted to go for a walk outside, its a remarkable day here, and he said
he was little weak for that, but he has been eating well, reading, thinking
about his prospects. He looks like he is on the verge of having great fun,
if I can say that.

He is going to film school in January, has a non-addicted girlfriend, two
supportive foster parents (martin is 25, so thats great for them to help).

Have not recognized any withdrawl symptoms. One of our helpers is a former
heroin addict and says its quite something to see a narcotic addict 46 hours
after using go through no apparent discomfort or withdrawl. All five of us
in the crew are submilely amazed, meaning we saw it all, but its hard to
realize that this very addicted fellow seems now normal.

We will be with him for another 48 hours, to Friday morning, then we will
return him to his home.

Then we begin soliciting other candidates. We also have a seminar on
November 2 for any interested person, on iboga therapy.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga
extract

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this
extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark
alkaloids).

Marc, I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
mg.” The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went
into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Marc, just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that. Would be very interested to have your report on what the
subject thinks of his experience. Or better yet, let him provide his own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 23, 2002 at 3:27:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/23/02 1:18:04 PM, marc420emery@shaw.ca writes:

Michele,
here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids).

Marc, I don’t understand what you mean by, “is whole plant alkaloid, of 1
mg.” The 1 mg part needs explanation, at least to me.
<snip>

consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went into

calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night
(12

hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s
here.

Marc, just for clarity, I am not a doctor and the spelling is “Lotsof”.
Thanks on that. Would be very interested to have your report on what the
subject thinks of his experience. Or better yet, let him provide his own
report to the mindvox ibogaine list.

Howard

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Subject 17 hours after first administering of iboga extract
Date: October 23, 2002 at 1:10:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Michele Kubby <michele@kubby.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Michele,

here is what happened yesterday:

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids) .

at 5.00 p.m., 700 mg enthogarden iboga TPA extract given
at 6.15 p.m. , second dose of 700 mg. iboga TPA extract given
at 7.15 p.m. , third dose of 750 mg. iboga TPA extract given,

7.45 p.m. subject vomits, contains part or all of third dose of iboga
extract.
Subject feels fine after vomit, readminister 400 mg of iboga extract
at 8.25 p.m. (now), subject is tired, resting, not seeing any visualization
at any time thus far.

From 5.15 onward, has been resting with eyes closed, little movement, pulse,
heartrate, all other signs normal. Subject has felt fine except for period
(2 minutes) of vomitting after 3 dose.

Now it is 11.30 p.m. It is 33 hours after the patient had heroin dose, three
and half hours after the final iboga extract dose. Patient has been sleeping
for last two hours, but has been relaxed for 6.5 hours, excepting a 2 minute
vomit episode earlier. We noticed he is dreaming now, as murmuring type
sounds are coming from him, and brain activity has been noticeable for the
first time during the procedure. No signs of discomfort or withdrawl. He has
consistently said he feels fine up to about 2 hours ago, when he went into
calm sleep, and appears quite…content. He slept very well last night (12
hours), so he is certainly getting alot of rest in my place while he’s here.

So far, so good.

Martin slept from 10.00 p.m. to 8.00 a.m., in normal relaxed sleep. Woke up hungry, feeling good, no signs of withdrawl, and at 10.00 a.m. is pleasantly watching a movie. It is 43 hours since last heroin use. No apparent withdrawl symptoms.

Dr. Howard Lotsuf commented that he had never heard of anyone sleeping through the iboga experience, but possibly the extract, which is new, contributed to this result. He also commented that each individual responds differently.

Its a beautiful day, so the patient and my crew of helpers will go out for a walk around the oceanside seawall later today.

Marc Emery

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT interesting posters
Date: October 23, 2002 at 12:38:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.yellowtimes.org/illustration.php

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Here is what has happened so far viz. Marc Emery administration
Date: October 23, 2002 at 7:02:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not to post silliness or empty platitudes Marc,
But best of luck with this endeavor. As someone, (like many here) I’ve gone through similar situations, and know how difficult it can be trying to get off the dope. So while I cannot exactly empathize with the ibogaine route, I can extend my best wishes in your and your son’s direction, and I do.

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor at Large High Times mag/.com
“Prohibition creates an irresistibly lucrative
opportunity for entrepreneurs willing to operate
to operate in illicit business. It is the policy
of idealists who cannot appreciate that the use
of drugs often reflects other sets of human
ideals: human perfectibility, the yearning
for a perfect moment, the peace that comes
from oblivion.” Richard Davenport-Hines
—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:20 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Here is what has happened so far viz. Marc Emery administration

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids) .

at 5.00 p.m., 700 mg enthogarden iboga TPA extract given
at 6.15 p.m. , second dose of 700 mg. iboga TPA extract given
at 7.15 p.m. , third dose of 750 mg. iboga TPA extract given,

From 5.15 onward, has been resting with eyes closed, little movement, pulse,
heartrate, all other signs normal. Subject has felt fine except for period
(2 minutes) of vomitting after 3 dose.

That is our situation to the present.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours

> How did it turn out please?
>
> Dave
> —
>
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:06:36
> MARC wrote:
> >Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14
hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not
discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg
Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again,
reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at
5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700
milligram.
> >
> >Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg
of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70
kg.
> >
> >Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.
> >
> >Marc Emery
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
> >
> >
> > The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content
of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of
extract.
> >
> > We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will
give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed
within one month.
> >
> > As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
> > We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
> > We will post more results once we have them back.
> >
> >
> > Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
> > Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
> > Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
> > www.ethnogarden.com
> > ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
> >
> >    —– Original Message —–
> >    From: HSLotsof@aol.com
> >    To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >    Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
> >    Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique
please.
> >
> >
> >
> >    In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:
> >
> >    >With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
> >    >(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
> >    >gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
> >    >better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
> >    >it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).
> >    >
> >
> >    I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of
total
> >    alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one
should
> >    administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a
person
> >    without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And
certainly not
> >    to a person being treated for chemical dependence.
> >
> >    Howard
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com
>
>

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 23, 2002 at 1:15:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay friends.

ahahahah. that’s the funniest thing i’ve read all day. thank you =)

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 23, 2002 at 12:36:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Ustanova Iboga wrote:

At 15:33 22.10.2002, you wrote:

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to
use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like
Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1
for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand
to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

Tell this to your government and prove it to them ;-))
Life on Earth would be MUCH better if you convince them!

Yeah…the government would have to start listening to reason and logic,
and i don’t forsee that happening any time in the near future…

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 23, 2002 at 12:16:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

patrick
where can i find your articls on addiction?
marcus

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Here is what has happened so far viz. Marc Emery administration
Date: October 22, 2002 at 11:20:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 3.00 p.m. Pacific time, a 150 mg test dose of extract given (this extract
is whole plant alkaloid, of 1 mg. there is 550 – 650 mg of ibogaine, the
remaining volume (350-450mg per gram, are 11 other iboga bark alkaloids) .

at 5.00 p.m., 700 mg enthogarden iboga TPA extract given
at 6.15 p.m. , second dose of 700 mg. iboga TPA extract given
at 7.15 p.m. , third dose of 750 mg. iboga TPA extract given,

From 5.15 onward, has been resting with eyes closed, little movement, pulse,
heartrate, all other signs normal. Subject has felt fine except for period
(2 minutes) of vomitting after 3 dose.

That is our situation to the present.

Marc

How did it turn out please?

Dave
—

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:06:36
MARC wrote:
Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14
hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not
discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg
Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again,
reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at
5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700
milligram.

Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg
of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70
kg.

Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content
of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of
extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will
give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed
within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique
please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of
total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one
should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a
person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And
certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 22, 2002 at 11:03:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hope the women on this list are happy with themselves. You’ve taken a perfectly normal teenager and turned him into a pussywhipped homosexual. No offense Vector I have a lot of gay friends.

I have spent a couple days in a 2 day, 12 hour a day class here http://www.beyondstructure.com just in case Mindvox never finishes playing with art or objects and dot com doesn’t come back and I have to go get a job in a few years.

I was thinking about making a movie about the whole Mindvox story but it would probably be about as uplifting as say, Brazil, or perhaps Miracle Mile, with the plot continuity of 12 Monkeys and the light hearted wacky zaniness of Leaving Las Vegas thrown in.

On On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:21:05 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this list,
the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a reflection
on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand how
the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude photos
all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright sick
I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?

.:vector:.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:37:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think he meant the treatment. But if he pledged money then I’m
guessing good 🙂

.:vector:.

Previous treatments had already turned out.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] i forgot to add
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:21:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I forgot to mention since I actually like the people on this list, the
Lexi Shafer comment was just a bad joke that is only a reflection on my
immaturity and pornogrpahy disgusts me and I can’t understand how the
Mindvox people could take money from Lexi to put her nude photos all
over the internet. I’d do it for free. I mean it’s downright sick I
didn’t mean that last comment either.

I’m in training for marriage or something. Does it get worse?

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:17:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think they’re more interested in doing that art thing 🙂 Here are the
10 versions or so I know about so far from crashtestdummies offlist
mail. I’m sure there are probably 50 more but drew turned off listing
on his directories 🙁 I’m also sure in the next months there will be
another 25 before they figure out how it has to be. More sane people
might open it and then make changes as time goes by.

http://mindvox.com/~dross/new_guts/
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/mv03.html
http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03/MVOX-NEW-FORUM-GUI_MV03.jpg

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/
http://mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

Much more important would you people please finish Lexi Shafer’s site
already, she’s hot! 🙂

http://mindvox.com/~dross/re.jpg

My review. mv04 is beautiful. OPEN IT ALREADY!!!!!!!! And open Lexi 🙂

.:vector:.

— brendan22@hushmail.com wrote:

Throwing that quote at google it’s a Charles Bukowski quote who is
badass.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that
true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you
release
all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and
then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But
that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

DUH

Thank you for your time.

Dave

Could I take this moment to remind mindvox that it should open soon.
Could I take this moment to remind patrick he should finish his book
soon.
Could I take this moment to remind bruce that youre this close to
rising from the ashes and that close to sitting in the ashes for
another 5 years killing time.
Could I take this moment to remind dross that he hasn’t sent me my 2
posters in 2 weeks.
Could I take this moment to get back to kazaa where I’m downloading.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 10:09:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think he meant the treatment. But if he pledged money then I’m
guessing good 🙂

.:vector:.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
How did it turn out please?

Dave
—

He pledged money to Ibogaine conferences and forums.

Beats the system.

What doesn’t? Isn’t that the whole point of ibogaine itself?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:58:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How did it turn out please?

Dave
—

He pledged money to Ibogaine conferences and forums.

Beats the system.

Dana/cnw

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:53:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Throwing that quote at google it’s a Charles Bukowski quote who is badass.

That line ‘these words I write keep me from total madness’ is that
true? Is that what it’s about? Does doing that somehow let you release
all of it? Because the words are pain, madness, destruction and
then you transform it to something else which is beautiful. But
that’s art, is that what holds it together somehow?

DUH

Thank you for your time.

Dave

Could I take this moment to remind mindvox that it should open soon. Could I take this moment to remind patrick he should finish his book soon.
Could I take this moment to remind bruce that youre this close to rising from the ashes and that close to sitting in the ashes for another 5 years killing time.
Could I take this moment to remind dross that he hasn’t sent me my 2 posters in 2 weeks.
Could I take this moment to get back to kazaa where I’m downloading.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Congressional Bumtrip
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:53:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Jeff Jones <jeffj@rxcbc.org>
Subject: Fwd: DPFCA: Salvia Divinorum Targeted by Cal.Congressmen
Status:

FYI
Please act this interest you

From: Dale Gieringer <canorml@igc.org>

*****************************************************
Federal Bill by Rep. Baca, Napolitano Seeks to Outlaw Salvia Divinorum
*****************************************************
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/salvia_divinorum_action_center.htm
—————————————————–

A bill (HR 5607) introduced in Congress on October 10, seeks to make the
Mazatec ceremonial plant Salvia divinorum and its active principle
Salvinorin A the next outlawed drugs under federal law. The Center for
Cognitive Liberty & Ethics (ccle) is organizing and preparing opposition
to HR 5607, and is also calling upon all interested people to express
their opposition to this unwarranted extension of the US war on drugs.

*** THE BILL IS SPONSORED BY TWO CALIFORNIANS, REP. JOE BACA (San
Bernardino) and GRACE NAPALITANO (Montebello).
Rep. Baca is at 202-225-6161/FAX 202-225-6918
Rep. Napolitano is 202-225-5256/FAX 202-225-0027

Read More at
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/salvia_divinorum_action_center.htm

Please forward this message to others who may be interested.

To Subscribe send a blank e-mail to:
cognitiveliberty-subscribe@igc.topica.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HOW TO SUPPORT THE CCLE
The Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics, is entirely funded by
grants and the contributions of members and allies. Your
contribution is necessary to continue our efforts to foster
cognitive freedom and autonomy. All donations are tax-deductible. To
become a member or to make a donation, please visit:
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/membership.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

—————————————————————————
Attachment: http://www.drugsense.org/temp/part2536.html
—
—-
Dale Gieringer (415) 563-5858 // canorml@igc.org
2215-R Market St. #278, San Francisco CA 94114

Jeff Jones
Officer of the City of Oakland for the Oakland Cannabis Buyers’ Cooperative
PO Box 70401 Oakland, CA 94612
(510) 832-5346 Fax (510) 986-0534 www.rxcbc.org jeffj@rxcbc.org

Our online store can be found here http://www.legalcannabis.com

Our online library of OCBC federal civil case legal briefs
http://www.druglibrary.org/ocbc/

Support our ongoing Federal Civil Court case, visit and donate
https://www.rxcbc.org/support/ldf_support.php

From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:45:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How did it turn out please?

Dave
—

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:06:36
MARC wrote:
Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14 hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again, reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at 5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700 milligram.

Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70 kg.

Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: “Dave Parker” <parkerd2002@lycos.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] how?
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:43:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you for your time.

Dave

____________________________________________________________
Get 250 full-color business cards FREE right now!
http://businesscards.lycos.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Forum at 127 th St (near IRT) just $10 Sat. morn. Nov 16
Date: October 22, 2002 at 7:24:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, daniel@breakingopenthehead.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Proposed Schedule, for Saturday morning and early afternoon, November 16th, 2002.

“HARLEM BUILDS NYC SUPPORT FOR IBOGAINE ACCESS”…A FORUM & SLIDESHOW

In the Dempsey Center Auditorium 127 W. 127th St.

Take the IRT 2 or 3 at W. 125th St. and Malcolm X Blvd/Lennox Avenue

Moderator introduction                 10              9:00 – 9:10
Playthell Benjamin                       30              9:10 – 9:40
Emmanuel Onaivi                           30              9:40 – 10:10
Awolowo Johnson                           30                10:10 – 10:40
Kenneth Alper                                30                10:40 – 11:10
Elombe Brath                                 30                11:10 – 11:40 (invited, not confirmed)
Gen Discussion/Moderator intro   90                11:40 –   1:30
Moderator Close                             10                1:30 –   1:40
(Any unused time will go into the General Panel and audience discussion at
the end of the forum. If enough audience are present at 9:00 am, the Discussion section could
go a half hour longer.)

The Dempsey Center can accommodate more than 400 people.

This forum is to be announced on KISS FM.

As of yesterday’s Ibogaine Working Group meeting the Contract has been
received.

For more info call

Rommel Washington at 212-304-0035 (Benu Project)

or Dana Beal at 212-677-7180 (Cures not Wars)

Howard Lotsof, coordinator, Citywide Ibogaine Conference Feb 7, 8th, 2003

P.S.:

Other Ibogaine events now scheduled include:

San Francisco: November 29, 30

Panel at Seattle Harm Reduction Conference Dec.2th

Paris: December 6 (re-scheduled from Nov. 22).

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Iboga administered in a few hours
Date: October 22, 2002 at 2:06:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Today is the day. My addicted person Martin has been here with me for 14 hours, we go to look at his EKG results and blood tests. If they are not discouraging, we proceed at 2.00 p.m. with a 100 mg test (550-640 mg Ibogaine per 1 gm of TPA extract), at 4.00 p.m. , a dose of 700 mg. (again, reminder, this is 550 gm – 640 gm. of ibogaine per 1 gm. TPA extract), at 5.30 p.m. a second dose of 700 milligram, at 6.30 p.m. a final dose of 700 milligram.

Total dosage in four phases = 2,200 mg of TPA extract ( = approx. 1250 mg of ibogaine plus about 900 mg. of other elleven alkaloids). Martin weighs 70 kg.

Right now it is 11.00 a.m. Pacific Time.

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 22, 2002 at 1:29:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 15:33 22.10.2002, you wrote:

> Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to
> use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like
> Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1
> for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand
> to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

Tell this to your government and prove it to them ;-))
Life on Earth would be MUCH better if you convince them!

Marko

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 22, 2002 at 9:33:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to
use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like
Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1
for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand
to government?

for the record, ALL americans originate from africa. in fact, all HUMANS
do.

well, there is some evidence that there may have been humans developing in
southeast asia around the same time they were developing in africa, but
there is only preliminary evidence for that…

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 22, 2002 at 8:43:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

Unless you are very high profile by which I mean there are people on the net who want to make a reputation for themselves by destroying your system because you’re somebody “important” then I’d use whatever you like to read email with and get virus checking. That was sound advice. Try to make sure you have the latest updates and patches, try not to run Microsoft products but if you have to then try to run at least NT2K or XP which have some kind of file permissions no matter how bad they are. Disable software install permissions for all users except administrator and then log in using a user account, not the admin account.

one more point, if you do feel the perverse need to run XP, make sure you
get all the available service packs. without these, running XP is
essentially like having a big neon sign that says “Hackers, please butt
rape me” =)

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 22, 2002 at 8:30:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Jack Honeycutt wrote:

eudora is actually a euphamism for “please hack me”…

Not according to the tests done by PC Magazine. It appears that the most
common “hacks” are with Microsoft email programs and Eudora is not
that. It rated quite well in that dept.

But I am always open to learn something new. If you can site a study,
article, or review that talks about Eudora being hacked, I would enjoy
reading it.

I’m just speaking from my experience working here at the UMBC Office of
Info Tech….eudora is CONSTANTLY having problems with ssl, in fact its
rare that we can get the two to play nice together.

of course, you really shouldn’t be using an html MUA in the first place..
which is why i try to push mutt or pine
=)

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 22, 2002 at 8:18:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 16:26 19.10.2002, you wrote:
At 03:48 19.10.2002, you wrote:

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Hi Dana,

have you seen Mario Van Peebles’s movie Panther? According to it, BPP was basically destroyed because of FBI infiltration, and FBI agents were responsible for bringing heroin into ghettos (with genereous help of mafia), so the movement died out.

Maybe it’s time that the same organization brings cure into ghettos? Would be great, possibly without “help” of government agents this time 😉

Marko

They’re still around. And some of them relate to Ibo. This Unitarian thing could be good for extending the Sacrament of Transition.

Dana/cnw

Yeah, all Americans that originate from Africa should demand their right to use their ancient religions, including the use of Iboga. Something like Native American Church which legally uses Peyote, although it’s Schedule 1 for all other Americans… Perhaps BPP could unite them for such a demand to government?

Marko

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list
Date: October 22, 2002 at 5:36:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi.. Your name and e-mail showed up on my mail from ibogaine so perhaps you
are already listed. Don’t know for sure but check your mail maybe.
Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: chimp@zwallet.com <chimp@zwallet.com>
Date: Tuesday, 22 October 2002 10:10
Subject: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list

hi patrick just sending you another email about the ibogaine list my name
is bernard chimp@zwallet.com please reply

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [SalviaD_Alliance] The 1st Salvia Statement is online
Date: October 21, 2002 at 11:24:45 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “slavaO” <webmaster@salviadivinorumcorps.org>

http://www.salviadivinorumcorps.org/statements/index.html

Come tomorrow and post yours. Initially, I will enable the automated
posting to SBC members (password protected). Others who would wish to
post will still need to send their statements to me and I will post
them manually.

Slava
—

First statement:

http://www.salviadivinorumcorps.org/statements/1.shtml

William Arden Ruth’s statement.

This is a public statement directed to whom it may concern, regarding the
changes the psychoactive plant Salvia divinorum has made in my life. I write
this statement at this point in time because Salvia divinorum is currently
under consideration to be made into a Schedule I ‘drug’.

At the time of this writing, October 2002, Salvia divinorum is still legal
in the United States. As the nation of Australia has banned Salvia divinorum
June 2002 there is a very real possibility that the U.S. Food and Drug
Administration as well as the Drug Enforcement Administration may feel
compelled to follow Australia’s lead and ban Salvia divinorum in the United
States; in fact, two Democratic legislators from California introduced on
October 10, 2002 a bill to Congress to do just that.

Personal background: I am a 49-year-old man, married for 22 years, a
homeowner, gainfully employed and with diversified interests and skills
vocationally and avocationally, including prehospital medicine, having been
a practicing paramedic for 20 years and an Emergency Medical Technician
instructor for 15 years. I have a good reputation in my community, and my
friends include a computer systems analyst, police officers, a Presbyterian
clergyman, schoolteachers, nurses, paramedics, firefighters, a
planetarium/observatory director, and electrical engineers.

With such a respectable reputation, you may wonder why I ever decided to
experiment with Salvia divinorum, a psychoactive plant. The reason lies with
my primary interest and skill, which is contemplation of the mystery of
sentient existence. My entire life has been one characterized by
introspection, reflection, and self-awareness. Ever since childhood, I have
been asking the ‘big questions’: Who am I? How is it that we, or anything,
exists? What makes me different from ‘others’? How do ‘others’ experience
their existence? What would it feel like to be someone else? What is our
relationship to the universe?

As the innocence of my childhood was gradually degraded by the cultural
conditioning of American urban-industrial society, I became a very unhappy
adolescent and adult, coming of age in the midst of the Vietnam War and
Watergate. I came to realize that those who happened to rise to positions of
authority do not necessarily possess the wisdom or integrity to be worthy of
their power to make and enforce laws.

And so it is today. There are those who would now declare a psychoactive
mint plant used over the centuries by indigenous Mexican people for healing
and religious experiences to be off-limits to those who would want to go
beyond the limitations of conceptual thinking and cultural conditioning.

Salvia divinorum has given me unforgettable experiences of deep meaning and
healing, enabling me to understand better my relationship to the web of
life, the ground of being. To deny anyone sufficiently mature to appreciate
the special powers of this plant would be an abuse of power, a restriction
of others’ personal freedom which is incompatible with ‘life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness.’ Salvia has, literally, brought me back to life,
and freedom, and has helped lead me to something even better than happiness:
clarity of mind, and inner peace. These persisting benefits are not
Salvia-dependent. I will always remember, and cherish, and be profoundly
grateful, for what Salvia has helped me be able to see. The deeper
understanding from the perspective enhancement Salvia has provided me is
indelible. I see the unity of life, the sacredness of all life, as the
blinders of cultural conditioning fall away from my eyes. Salvia tells the
truth, and goes beyond all human concepts of truth: Salvia takes us to the
living truth, which is a healing experience, and a revelation.

Individual life is short and uncertain. In our brief time as human beings we
have the opportunity to understand, to the limits of our abilities, the
mystery of being; Salvia helps extend our abilities in this regard. That
from which we all come, That to which we all return, awaits us; to want to
better understand That, to experience the nature of That eternal being, to
commune with That, to surrender to That, is everyone’s birthright. Salvia
divinorum, a living plant which somehow facilitates a better awareness of
That which lives in us as us–the eternal being, no less–is a religious
sacrament that is outlawed only by an ignorant, fearful body politic that
does not tolerate individuals penetrating the veil of its dominant cultural
conditioning.

When I first experienced Salvia divinorum in April 2000 I knew it was a
genuine entheogen, the most therapeutic of teacher-plants. I was so deeply
affected by the Salvia experience that I made a vow to stand up for this
plant if there ever came a time a heedless authoritarian force attempted to
make it illegal. That time has now come. Human ignorance and fear,
legislators in the throes of the prevailing cultural conditioning, now want
to take away one of the effective tools individuals can use to enhance
consciousness. It is sad to see how nicotine and alcohol, which are
addictive, cause disease and diminish consciousness, are legal and socially
acceptable; how prescription psychoactive drugs keep drug companies wealthy
and the populace compliant and dependent; and how a humble plant that is
nontoxic, nonaddicting and consciousness-enhancing is at risk of being
turned into a Schedule I ‘drug’, the same legal status as heroin. This is
not just. This is not necessary.

Does Salvia divinorum, used wisely, cause harm to the user or to anyone
else? NO.

Does turning Salvia divinorum into a Schedule I ‘drug’ cause harm to others?
YES. Arrest and incarceration ruins careers, destroys families, deprives
individuals of rights and liberty.

I have lived long enough to see this country turn into an
ever-more-repressive regime. The tribe, the family of man, is being
superseded by the police state. A bleak totalitarian future is taking shape,
and at hand.

My personal, therapeutic, transcendental use of a humble Mexican entheogen
is nobody’s business but my own; that it’s about to become Big Brother’s
business bodes ill for the citizens of the so-called Land of the Free.

Ingesting a particular plant that helps me want to be a better person, to
live more in accordance with the vision the plant provides, is an act of
worship, not a criminal act. If the day ever came where I was persecuted for
sharing this plant’s life with my own, I will know that I am in fact being
persecuted for religious reasons. I write this now as a free citizen. I hope
I never have to write from a jail cell. The truth that Salvia reveals is
eternal, and universal, and can never be suppressed, although many will try.
To be at risk of imprisonment for wanting to see the truth more clearly and
deeply is a sign of a fearful and ignorant time. At least I have lived long
enough to known inner peace, spiritual freedom, and relief from my own
ignorance and fear, to have had the opportunity to know Salvia divinorum, a
beneficent plant that has enriched my life and understanding in ways beyond
all words or measure.

May all people find the peace, wisdom and love of the spirit, the life of
all lives.

William Arden Ruth

Oberlin, Ohio
October 21, 2002

Please, visit Salvia Divinorum Alliance organization web site:
http://www.salviadivinorumcorps.org You are welcomed to participate in all
its activities.

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: UU front?????MASS BRain B/Q on hallows EVE Un kina IA
Date: October 21, 2002 at 10:49:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m in complete agreement, Nick. When the veil is at its thinnest, a
western wiccan concept, at all hallows, is VERY ebokan, to me. It
also accords with the “Day of the Dead” in mesoamerican cultures,
etc.
Miss ya! Love, Jane

Yes, around now will be a very potent time for all things
iboga-esque. After
tomorrow’s full moon, with the moon moving into Taurus and the sun
into its
cojoint Scorpio, and for about a month afterward, the veil between
the
physical and the Bwiti’s Land of the Ancestors will indeed be very
light.
Might be worth burning some iboga rootbark on Samhain [s’wain], Oct
31st,
the Celtic New Year, if you’re treating people with ibogaine, with
the
request that the great spirit doesn’t cause any of your punters to
move from
one side of the veil to the other in the coming year.

Just a thought

Nick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 21, 2002 at 9:01:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Eudora isn’t that bad, Pegasus mail is more secure but lacking in features, most programs are lacking in features when you compare them to Outlook.

If you look at what most hackers or former hackers are using for their email the #1 mail program is mutt. This is because it’s extremely configurable, encryption fits right in, scripting fits right in, you can fork whatever you want, you have complete control and it is still under active development if you look at Patrick’s headers everything he sends comes out of mutt. I would guess that Mindvox is hit with everything and the kitchen sink every day. None of it is ever going to do anything to mutt when run from a properly configured account under any properly secured unix. Choices 2 and 3 are pine and elm for the diehard won’t change people.

These aren’t practical options unless you want to devote a lot of your time to learning unix and pop your mail to a unix shell account somewhere. The most practical advice is to have a virus checker that auto updates itself and hope that you aren’t one of the first people hit with a new virus.

I forget the link but it’s linked from Mindvox, there are tools called fuzzers one of which is Spike, which does nothing except try to blow holes through a operating system. Every time one is patched someone finds 10 new ones. This is especially true of Microsoft where the entire OS is closed and patched together. Nearly every program on that script kiddie list that Brendan posted automatically kills virus checking out of the registry, pops up the “checking for new updates” messages so it looks like it’s still doing something and then looks for the firewall and disables it so your computer is wide open, infected and taken over. And you don’t know it until it’s very late.

Windows 95 and 98 cannot be secured in any reasonable way. If you’re in front of the computer or have a program running on it then you own that entire computer and all the processes. There is no security.

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued
up on
computer talk and walk in general. If you don’t want to use Outlook
or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use. Would be good to
hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??: Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: Ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 21 October 2002 12:20
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joshua Tinnin wrote:

Yeah, that’s cute. Base64-encoded html attachment to launch something
in
an

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: “Jack Honeycutt” <jhoneycutt@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:27:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 10:26 AM 10/21/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> Started in the 1980’s before the World Wide Web was invented, Eudora was
> the default email program that all of us used long ago. It is still in use
> today, but slipping in PC Magazines poll of best email programs, although
> it still has a good showing.

eudora is actually a euphamism for “please hack me”…

Not according to the tests done by PC Magazine. It appears that the most common “hacks” are with Microsoft email programs and Eudora is not that. It rated quite well in that dept.

But I am always open to learn something new. If you can site a study, article, or review that talks about Eudora being hacked, I would enjoy reading it.

Thanks

jack

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list
Date: October 21, 2002 at 6:02:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bernard,

you’re ON the list ;-))

Marko

At 22:40 21.10.2002, you wrote:
hi patrick just sending you another email about the ibogaine list my name is bernard chimp@zwallet.com please reply

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Bernard C Phifer <chimp@zwallet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] getting on the ibogaine list
Date: October 21, 2002 at 4:40:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: chimp@zwallet.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi patrick just sending you another email about the ibogaine list my name is bernard chimp@zwallet.com please reply

______________________________________________________
Get Paid… With Your Free Email at
http://www.zwallet.com/index.html?user=chimp

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 1:42:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-4332
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca

Indra extract is a spagyric, prepared according to the method of Paracelsus. Additionally, it is zapped with red light, which rotates the molecule so that it produces less nausea, and a better high. Ibogaine alkaloids are light sensitive, like melatonin.

Dana/cnw

From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 12:39:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The first testing we had done was to isolate the total Ibogaine content of the extract which turned out results of 560-660mg Ibogaine per g of extract.

We are currently awaiting the results of the total analysis which will give the Total alkaloid content. These results should be back and confirmed within one month.

As Brett mentioned, our product is NEW.
We want everyone to be fully informed regarding our product.
We will post more results once we have them back.

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 12:08:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/21/02 11:27:51 AM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

I’ll admit I am confused. The supplier should indicate the amount of total
alkaloids in mgs that 1 gram of their product contains. No one should
administer any product they are not familiar with and certainly not a person
without extensive ethnobotanical experience of T. iboga. And certainly not
to a person being treated for chemical dependence.

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 11:27:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They concentrated 16 grams of ibogane root bark into 1
gram of extract not 1/16th. When I stated 1:1 it was
that the resulting extract was suppose to be a mg for
mg replacement of ibogaine HCL, not 1/16th. According
to Ethnogardens site 1 gram of their extract contained
660 mg of ibogaine PLUS the rest of the total plant
alkaloid mix – TPA or was that PTA (total plant
alkaloid)? However it appears that their product is
not a mg for mg replacement for ibogaine HCI but
roughly 3/5th (my guestimate) as strong as ibogaine
HCL. With Indra it is 5 times as concentrated
(roughly) being 5:1 – 5 grams of root bark yielding 1
gram of extract so the Ethnogarden at 16:1 is a little
better than 3 times stronger than Indra, or at least
it is suppose to be (5:1 vs 16:1).

Brett
— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/20/02 11:20:20 PM,
bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Ethnogarden contacted me about the extract being
used.
There seems to be some confusion (on my part?)
about
the dosage/potency of their 16:1 extract, I have
asked
them to contact me/the list about dosages/potency
(etc). It appears to me that at 16:1 almost 3.95
grams
of their extract is high, appearances can be
deceiving… (eg at 16:1 it comes to over 63 gm of
root bark or that is what it looks like) or in the
case of a 68kg person 3.95gm (total suggested)
comes
to 58mg/kg which is still over the dosage range
they
just gave me of 35-45mg/kg for their extract –
initially I was told it was 1:1 to ibogaine HCL –
so
there is some confusion that needs to be cleared
up.

I am not familiar with the 16:1 product at all but,
let me comment on the
numbers. Potency is 1/16 and that is equivalent to
.0625%. 3.95 grams =
3950 mgs. 3950 mgs x .0625 = 190.62 mgs alkaloid
content. 190.62 mg divided
by 68 kg patient weight = 2.8 mg/kg. I think the
1:1 ratio you talk of may
indicate that the alkaloid mixture is equal parts of
ibogaine and other iboga
alkaloids. You might want to confirm this with
Ethnogarden. I believe that
a chemical analysis of the indra product (5:1)
showed 8% ibogaine and 8%
other iboga alkaloids but, possibly Marko who I
believe had the analysis
performed can comment.

Nick Sandberg in the ibogaine manual
<www.ibogaine.org/manual.html> was
concerned that persons who confuse the strengths of
ibogaine and the crude
extracts to the detrement of their subjects. This
certainly is a valid
concern and Ibogaine should not be administered
until you have an
understanding of what exactly you are administering.

Howard

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 21, 2002 at 10:26:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Jack Honeycutt wrote:

At 10:51 PM 10/21/2002 +1300, you wrote:

Started in the 1980’s before the World Wide Web was invented, Eudora was
the default email program that all of us used long ago. It is still in use
today, but slipping in PC Magazines poll of best email programs, although
it still has a good showing.

eudora is actually a euphamism for “please hack me”…

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 21, 2002 at 10:11:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Alison Senepart wrote:

mutt!!

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:58:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 10/20/02 11:20:20 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Ethnogarden contacted me about the extract being used.
There seems to be some confusion (on my part?) about
the dosage/potency of their 16:1 extract, I have asked
them to contact me/the list about dosages/potency
(etc). It appears to me that at 16:1 almost 3.95 grams
of their extract is high, appearances can be
deceiving… (eg at 16:1 it comes to over 63 gm of
root bark or that is what it looks like) or in the
case of a 68kg person 3.95gm (total suggested) comes
to 58mg/kg which is still over the dosage range they
just gave me of 35-45mg/kg for their extract –
initially I was told it was 1:1 to ibogaine HCL – so
there is some confusion that needs to be cleared up.

I am not familiar with the 16:1 product at all but, let me comment on the
numbers. Potency is 1/16 and that is equivalent to .0625%. 3.95 grams =
3950 mgs. 3950 mgs x .0625 = 190.62 mgs alkaloid content. 190.62 mg divided
by 68 kg patient weight = 2.8 mg/kg. I think the 1:1 ratio you talk of may
indicate that the alkaloid mixture is equal parts of ibogaine and other iboga
alkaloids. You might want to confirm this with Ethnogarden. I believe that
a chemical analysis of the indra product (5:1) showed 8% ibogaine and 8%
other iboga alkaloids but, possibly Marko who I believe had the analysis
performed can comment.

Nick Sandberg in the ibogaine manual <www.ibogaine.org/manual.html> was
concerned that persons who confuse the strengths of ibogaine and the crude
extracts to the detrement of their subjects. This certainly is a valid
concern and Ibogaine should not be administered until you have an
understanding of what exactly you are administering.

Howard

From: “Jack Honeycutt” <jhoneycutt@qwest.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Email programs
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:56:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 10:51 PM 10/21/2002 +1300, you wrote:

Started in the 1980’s before the World Wide Web was invented, Eudora was the default email program that all of us used long ago. It is still in use today, but slipping in PC Magazines poll of best email programs, although it still has a good showing.

In the old days, you could get Eudora free with out a spell checker. And if you look around on shareware places you might still find it. Eudora sells it in two modes now. One is free, but it puts small ads in it, and the other is paid where the ads disappear. I think you can buy the add free CD in a box for about $50, or just run the free one. They no longer post the small free, one with out a spell checker on the Eudora web site (I don’t think), but you can check.

http://www.eudora.com/

Many years ago, when the web first started, your ISP would give you one 1.44 floppy and it would have a copy of Netscpae and Eudora on it.

jack

From: HSL123@aol.com
Subject: Re: [IBOGAINE] a true story ,
Date: October 21, 2002 at 8:36:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl

In a message dated 10/14/02 4:53:22 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

The West Africans people told me that the kolanut was used in all ceremonies
when a baby is born everyone get to chew a little kolanut to bring peace
in house , it was used as Alcohol in our culture for celebration and
festivals. to
be able to stay awake and dance all night .

This use is also sited in the Samorini article, The Bwiti Religion and the
psychoactive plant Tabernanthe iboga,
<http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/samorini.html>.

Howard
_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
ibogaine mailing list
ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 7:36:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heart rate and blood pressure monitoring.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

marc420emery@shaw.ca 10/19/02 03:20AM >>>
Re: UU front
Hello everyone, my name is Marc Emery.

My adopted son, a heroin and methadone addict for 4 years, along with
his girlfriend of 4 years (also addicted), were administered iboga
(3,800 mg whole extract, for my son, 2,800 mg. for the woman) 25 days
ago. I saw them at day 21, the transformation from hollowed, gaunt,
dazed lethargy (and all those illnesses!), into healthy, robust
individuals. I was staggered.

An employee of mine, I sent to Amsterdam three years ago, to Sara
Glatt for whole iboga extract, my first person I assisted to get
treatment. (Woman, 82 kg, 5,000 mg.)

In four days, I will administer 4,000 mg. whole iboga extract to a 20
year old, poly addicted (cocaine/heroin) male. This is my first time
administering this substance, though I have procured the extract for my
son and his friend, financed and arranged Amsterdam therapy visits for
an employee. I have read about 250pages of the literature in the
Ibogaine Dossier and other web sites.

I have talked alot to Dana Beal, a little to Dr. Malemede.

So I want anyone toadd suggestions to my intended plan:

Martin fixes, Monday 2.00 p.m.

Comes to my place. Hangs out. No food or eating except a litle fruit
or small amount only. Interact with Martin, talk about the next day,
talk about music. Watch Poyaqquatsi. Go to bed at midnight.

Martin wakes at 8.00, showers, gets comfortable.

At 2.00 p.m. , 150 mg Extract in gel cap administered to see adverse
reaction.

An hour later, administer 1,200 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer 1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk
An hour later, administer 1,300 mg. in gel caps with milk (5.00
p.m.)

Room kept fairly dark after onset. Pail for urination at the bedside,
washroom nearby.
3 attendents total ,organized in 8 hour shifts. Hydration necessary,
Over the next period of visualizations and experience, observe any
unusual reactions.

———

Any comments please?

Thanks,

Marc Emery

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not
Date: October 21, 2002 at 5:51:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is probably a real thick question to those of u who are so clued up on
computer talk and walk in general. If you don’t want to use Outlook or
Outlook Express what would be the best to use. Would be good to hear some
opinions from anyone who knows these things??: Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: Ibogaine <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 21 October 2002 12:20
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Brief THING to Note Down or Not

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Joshua Tinnin wrote:

Yeah, that’s cute. Base64-encoded html attachment to launch something in
an
iFrame, I would assume, but am not bothering to decode it.

Sygate and ZoneAlarm make decent, free firewalls, and both are better
than
BlackIce (which is not free), and AVG makes great, free anti-virus
software
… or, as Patrick mentioned, don’t use Billy Gate’s bastard child of an
OS,
or use something other than Outlook or Outlook Express for email. Unless
you
really have to, as I do, unfortunately. Newbies with Linux can have
massive
security holes in their schtuff as well, but won’t get into that too
much.
Just learn how to use it if you have it.

Free Stuff that helps the situation with Windoze:

Sygate Personal Firewall – http://soho.sygate.com/products/shield_ov.htm

ZoneAlarm fireall – http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/home.jsp

(btw, you only need one firewall, and using two at once can cause
problems)

AVG Anti-Virus – http://www.grisoft.com/

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

We haven’t opened the additional lists yet, since the beta is finally
stable and not FLYING out of anything. Basically this means the Vox list
will be absorbed therein; and ibogaine and drugwar will continue as they
are now, and get gently blended into the mix once it is HIGHLY stable,
and
we’re sure nothing will be disrupted.

I will toss an endline onto the messages, and make it simpler for the
terminally brain dead to unsubscribe, in the near future — meaning;
coming no later than 2004.

– – – – – – – – –

On another topic. The lists are closed, this means that most spam,
viruses, shit like that, gets stripped out and does not land here.

However, there are various script kiddies sending out crap and
cross-posting it — or attempting to anyway.

Fer instance, this:

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:44:44 +0100
From: HSL123 <HSL123@aol.com>
Subject: Sep 12 2002 19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(Which was filtered out). Is Howard’s email address that he uses to post
to calyx, with someone attempting to spoof it to [Here]. And where it
actually comes from is:

^^^ Alla that will do absolutely nothing to a Unix box, Mac, or any
machine which isn’t running Windoze and/or Outlook.

If you are using Windoze and POP to Outlook, or read shit in IE5/6, then
it’s a REALLY EXCELLENT idea to have Norton anti-virus, or sumthin’ of
that nature, or you will eventually be sorry.

Basically, to put it into laymen’s terms: Windoze is a pile of shit virus
magnet, and Outlook is swiss cheese.

Just mentioning,

Patrick

From: “sara glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [IBOGAINE] inspiration
Date: October 21, 2002 at 5:26:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl

Iboga inspiration during the trip ,

” the snake carry’s the spirit but the snake isn’t the spirit ,”

“People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul.”     ~Carl Gustav Jung

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 1:41:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

I sent you a previous email on this. The (new)
dosages you are doing are fine as is the test dose
amount. Ethnogarden had originally reported to me a
1:1 strength of their extract (not Indra extract) and
some confusion as well as the dose you gave me (3.95gm
– which is a range for Indra extract – so it looked
like you were talking Indra to me) – so much for
“contrast” – which if there is, something is not right
and GOOD, we found out something was not right and
fixed it and good that you followed up and asked, many
people don’t… Their product is new, not just to me,
it is new. With ibogaine – even known products it is
often difficult to judge potency as each and every
time it is somewhat different – even less can feel
like more, more can seem like less. Maybe it is the
phases of the moon or something… It is good to check
and double check which you are doing – good not to
have given that 58mg/kg, we want to cure him, not cook
him… If the test dose hits him very hard (you will
know) I would suggest cutting the full dose back, if
it were HCL I would drop it to 10-12mg, so figure
about double that. If on the other hand 2 hours after
the 35mg/kg (total) he is up and about, give him some
more ibo (not over 45mg/kg at one sitting), you want
him to be wobbled. If he barfs up the ibogaine –
there you have to guestimate how much he lost and
replace it. If he threw it all up 1 hour later he
would have absorbed about 1/2 of the ibo, a bit more
if it were HCL, less if it were Indra (just to confuse
things) – for ballpark idea.

Good luck, all will be well very soon. I will be home
tomorrow if you need to contact me. Normally things go
just fine. FYI, if you like a tiny amount of ibo for
you (say 25mg) will help you get in sync with him.

Brett

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
The iboga extract came from Ethnogarden Botanicals,
who is on this list. His
suggestion was to stick to 150 mg test dose, and
then when convinced all is
well, administer 35 – 45 mg per kg., since my friend
is at a low dose point,
leaning toward 35 mg. per kg.

So if I understand J. Callan from Ethnograden, the
recommended amount to
test is 150 – 200 mg., and the range at 68 kg. (
2380 mg. to 3,060 mg.) for
complete dosage? This contrasts with some of the
comments.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent
comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily
(down
from $600 daily three

It is always better to cut down (whatever kind of
dope) as much as you can before treatment, some
treaters say it doesn’t matter – I disagree.

months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68

He needs about 12 hours (from last fix) or just
before
he starts to kick before doing ibo, I didn’t catch
the
timing. Methadone you wait about 24 hours.

kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as
planned.

The liver can usually be worked around (short
version
is the dosing is worked up slower and watched
closer),
any heart problems cannot.

Your suggested .5 – 1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from
150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Unless it is a different extract Indra (indra.dk)
suggests .5-1 gm test dose for their product, see
their website. Anyone I know who contacted them
directly was told to use 1gm for the tester.

From their site

“0,5 – 1 gram: Mainly stimulant and aphrodisiac
properties. Little or no visual imagery. This is a
valuable experience in itself. For those who wish
to
use the extract for treating drug dependency this
small dosage is also appropriate for testing for
possible allergic reactions and other undesirable
effects. ”

If it is another extract such as a 16:1 from
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm the
dosage
is different. In Ethnogardens’ product it would be
used 1:1, just like ibogaine HCL and 100mg test
dose
would be standard. But then if it is ethnogardens
extract (which I highly doubt) the main dose is
WAY
TOO HIGH as is the test dose. I have no experience
with Enthnogarden’s 16:1 extract and have not
heard
any reports either.

My personal feeling is 1/2 gm (Indra) is enough
which
would be about equal to 100mg HCL, a typical test
dose
of HCL (it is roughly 5:1 indra:ibogaine HCL) and
1gm
on the high side IMO. 150mg-250mg of Indra IMO
might
not be enough to find out if there is a problem
(eg,
slow metabolizer/highly sensitive to ibo). There
was
one person (who did NOT follow protocol and get
the
required medical screening, he was not a
youngster)
who reported to the ibogaine list chest pains
associated with taking 1gm of Indra as a test
dose. I
also know of one methadone who REFUSED to take the
full dose of ibogaine (Indra) after taking the 1gm
tester, it can be particularly disgusting for
opiate
addicts – hence my tending to (suggest) go a bit
lower
at .5gm but not 150mg-250mg. The test dose also
seems
to ease one into it rather than all at once, it
wouldn’t matter much if at all with Indra cause it
is
so slow and does not produce as much (if any)
anxiety
as HCL but with HCL it is, relaxing even.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 11:32:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The iboga extract came from Ethnogarden Botanicals, who is on this list. His
suggestion was to stick to 150 mg test dose, and then when convinced all is
well, administer 35 – 45 mg per kg., since my friend is at a low dose point,
leaning toward 35 mg. per kg.

So if I understand J. Callan from Ethnograden, the recommended amount to
test is 150 – 200 mg., and the range at 68 kg. ( 2380 mg. to 3,060 mg.) for
complete dosage? This contrasts with some of the comments.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three

It is always better to cut down (whatever kind of
dope) as much as you can before treatment, some
treaters say it doesn’t matter – I disagree.

months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68

He needs about 12 hours (from last fix) or just before
he starts to kick before doing ibo, I didn’t catch the
timing. Methadone you wait about 24 hours.

kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

The liver can usually be worked around (short version
is the dosing is worked up slower and watched closer),
any heart problems cannot.

Your suggested .5 – 1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Unless it is a different extract Indra (indra.dk)
suggests .5-1 gm test dose for their product, see
their website. Anyone I know who contacted them
directly was told to use 1gm for the tester.

From their site

“0,5 – 1 gram: Mainly stimulant and aphrodisiac
properties. Little or no visual imagery. This is a
valuable experience in itself. For those who wish to
use the extract for treating drug dependency this
small dosage is also appropriate for testing for
possible allergic reactions and other undesirable
effects. ”

If it is another extract such as a 16:1 from
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm the dosage
is different. In Ethnogardens’ product it would be
used 1:1, just like ibogaine HCL and 100mg test dose
would be standard. But then if it is ethnogardens
extract (which I highly doubt) the main dose is WAY
TOO HIGH as is the test dose. I have no experience
with Enthnogarden’s 16:1 extract and have not heard
any reports either.

My personal feeling is 1/2 gm (Indra) is enough which
would be about equal to 100mg HCL, a typical test dose
of HCL (it is roughly 5:1 indra:ibogaine HCL) and 1gm
on the high side IMO. 150mg-250mg of Indra IMO might
not be enough to find out if there is a problem (eg,
slow metabolizer/highly sensitive to ibo). There was
one person (who did NOT follow protocol and get the
required medical screening, he was not a youngster)
who reported to the ibogaine list chest pains
associated with taking 1gm of Indra as a test dose. I
also know of one methadone who REFUSED to take the
full dose of ibogaine (Indra) after taking the 1gm
tester, it can be particularly disgusting for opiate
addicts – hence my tending to (suggest) go a bit lower
at .5gm but not 150mg-250mg. The test dose also seems
to ease one into it rather than all at once, it
wouldn’t matter much if at all with Indra cause it is
so slow and does not produce as much (if any) anxiety
as HCL but with HCL it is, relaxing even.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 21, 2002 at 12:06:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, ethnogarden got back to me.

The test dose of 150mg is fine but that 3.95gm of
their extract is TOO HIGH (seriously). It comes to
58mg/kg for a 68kg person and should be reduced to
35mg-45mg/kg per Ethnogarden. In other types of
ibogaine the habit you describe of $20 a day would put
it at a lower dose rather than the max dose, usually
for methadone addicts. Again, I am unfamiliar with
their particular flavor of extract – crunch some
number time… 2.5gm total puts it at almost 37mg/kg,
you can always take a little more later if you need
it, the last thing you want to do is “oops, took too
much ibogaine”… You should know how far UP THERE you
go by 1.5 hours after the dose, or less and would be
best if you took the main dose all within about 3
hours. I suggest not to keep taking the stuff over
ethnogarden’s recomendation of 45mg/kg in one sitting
if you are having some withdrawal symptoms, too much
ibogaine can be a bad thing. Again I am unfamiliar
with their product but ya can’t keep hitting the ibo
safely if you are somewhat sick, expect some
discomfort and don’t try to get rid of all of it (in
the usual addict fashion…).

Hope that helps.

— MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca> wrote:
Yes, Dana, those are intended doses using the whole
extract.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer
Iboga, critique please.

Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is
68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 – 1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from
150 mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 11:20:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ethnogarden contacted me about the extract being used.
There seems to be some confusion (on my part?) about
the dosage/potency of their 16:1 extract, I have asked
them to contact me/the list about dosages/potency
(etc). It appears to me that at 16:1 almost 3.95 grams
of their extract is high, appearances can be
deceiving… (eg at 16:1 it comes to over 63 gm of
root bark or that is what it looks like) or in the
case of a 68kg person 3.95gm (total suggested) comes
to 58mg/kg which is still over the dosage range they
just gave me of 35-45mg/kg for their extract –
initially I was told it was 1:1 to ibogaine HCL – so
there is some confusion that needs to be cleared up.
All I can say not knowing their product and till I
hear from them is go with whatever they say on
dosages/test dosages but I don’t want someone getting
hurt either so double check the dosages they gave you,
something seems off.

As always, be careful with ibogaine.

Brett

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments.
Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down
from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m.
Monday. His body weight is 68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his
blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 – 1 gram test dose is much
higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150
mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
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Y! Web Hosting – Let the expert host your web site
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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 11:19:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, Dana, those are intended doses using the whole extract.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.

Thank you Brett for all these excellent comments. Martin is at a low dose
situation, so his habits are $20 (CN) daily (down from $600 daily three
months ago), his last fix will be at 2.00 p.m. Monday. His body weight is
68
kg. Monday we get the EKG back, analysis of his blood tests. If all looks
well with heart and liver, we proceed as planned.

Your suggested .5 – 1 gram test dose is much higher than any previous
recommendation however, suggestions ranged from 150 mg – 250 mg prior to
your suggestion.

Marc Emery

I presume we’re talking extract here, not HCl.

Dana/cnw

From: “Ron Sala” <ronsala@uuma.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: UU front
Date: October 20, 2002 at 8:12:27 PM EDT
To: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <aiviarose@netscape.net>, <barlow@eff.org>, <cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu>, <clayhoney@hotmail.com>, <cnw@cures-not-wars.org>, <dancegroove@nyc.rr.com>, <ekwaus@yahoo.com>, <HSL123@aol.com>, <J_Dillard@hotmail.com>, <kid_lucky@hotmail.com>, <narda@lifefood.com>, <Nmitsogo@aol.com>, <NPNReality@aol.com>, <PGBenjamin@aol.com>, <phuture2010@hotmail.com>, <Suziknkbell@aol.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

Thanks for the invitation. Unfortunately, all three of us are booked up for tomorrow. But please let me know ASAP when the next meeting is. We’d all like to come.

Yours,

Ron
__________________________________________________________________
The Rev. Ron Sala
Unitarian Universalist Society in Stamford
20 Forest St, Stamford, CT 06901-1819
Office: 203-348-0708 Fax: 203-358-0029
ronsala@uuma.org www.uusis.org

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: Ron Sala
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; aiviarose@netscape.net ; barlow@eff.org ; cajohnson@bmcc.cuny.edu ; clayhoney@hotmail.com ; cnw@cures-not-wars.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; ekwaus@yahoo.com ; HSL123@aol.com ; J_Dillard@hotmail.com ; kid_lucky@hotmail.com ; narda@lifefood.com ; Nmitsogo@aol.com ; NPNReality@aol.com ; PGBenjamin@aol.com ; phuture2010@hotmail.com ; Suziknkbell@aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: UU front

Dana,

I’ve called the Rev. Richard Erhardt from Freeport (the Phil Dick fan) and the Rev. Gordon Bailey, Assistant Minister at Community Church on 35th St. Both are very interested in Ibogaine, and would like to meet with you. Richard will call you soon. Gordon is looking into what needs to be done to get space at the church for that February forum.

BTW, I hadn’t realized you were once Field Marshal of the White Panther Party. I’d never heard of them till I bought an album by The Up a couple weeks ago. Great music, great message!

–Ron
__________________________________________________________________

Not only that, we have a BPP infrastructure committed to bringing Ibo to the American People–and able to do so.

Could they come to the next mtg of the Ibogaine Working Group at 22 w. 27th (5th floor) at 4pm Monday at the Harm Reduction Center? We will be there until 6 pm.

We can also meet at 9 Bleecker if they are not available until after 6.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] I’m going to administer Iboga, critique please.
Date: October 20, 2002 at 8:15:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, marc420emery@shaw.ca
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com