Ibogaine List Archives - 2004-04

From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?back at you
Date: April 30, 2004 at 10:25:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

several people have now said mixing opium tea with ibo isnt safe,I never meant at the
same time!!I I meant AFTER you had taken ibo and were thoroughly recovered from
the experience,and may have lingering or even severe withdrawal symptoms,either
temporary (for some maintenance may be permanent or long term.) I know the ‘per-
manent altering of brain chemistry’ is still controversial but since some people can
seem to almost never get off opiates this is perhaps true for some.I don’t see why opium tea is not available to addicts for free from the govt. as IT IS MORE BENIGN only because
it isn’t injected and every illegal drug gang selling heroin could be shut down overnight
if addicts were given either opium tea or even heroin.This is obvious and the govt. must
know it so why continue the same failed policy.Discrimination? Stigma?Politicians
wanting to look tough on crime?Ignorance? Claudia

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?
Date: April 30, 2004 at 3:34:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Claudia:
Since most of my opiate use is in the form of opium tea I can tell you a few things. First, opium tea is JUST as strong as any other form of opiate. I suppose you could say that one medium-sized pod is equal to about 15 mgs of codeine, but there is no real prediction since potency varies greatly. The two times I almost OD’d were thru poppy tea and once, just taking three small heads together sent me really reeling – so mixing poppy tea with ibogaine is probably just as bad of an idea as taking any other form of opiates with ibogaine. (I would agree with you that poppy tea is definitely a more “natural way” and does seem to have less side effects,tho.)
Second – I’ve never bought dried poppy pods from craft stores, altho I’ve heard they’re often “the real thing” too, but I have had my own dried pods and when poppy pods dry up, little holes form in the bottom of the pod, which allows the seeds to drop out thus reseeding themselves. However, the lack of seeds has no effect on the opium thruout the plant material, so you don’t need to worry about hearing the little seeds rattling around…
My two cents and best to all,
Sandy
>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?

>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:39:57 -0400

> >Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are opium

>poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling

>inside.

>Havent tried it.<

>They’re real poppies in most instances I’ve found, and tea is possible from

>dried poppies in those craft stores, (although some poppies are much

>stronger than others I’ve also found…I mean, heard) just make sure they

>aren’t dyed some ugly color. Rinse them thoroughly before crushing and

>bioling…oh shoot, I’m giving instructions for producing illegal drugs,

>darn it. I’m a criminal. Shucks.

>Peace,

>Preston

>—– Original Message —–

>From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:05 AM

>Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?

>If ibo by itself has failed so many people would it not be a good idea to

>combine it with

>something else like opium tea,either temporarily till one is over the hump

>or permanent

>maintenance for those who have a more severe problem or imbalance(perhaps in

>the

>brain perhaps permanent?)Opium tea is certainly more benign than heroin or

>synthetic

>opiates and you don’t shoot it thereby preventing damage to the

>viens,possible O.D.

>or death or spread of IDU diseaes.I think it’s a great idea but then I’m a

>big drug reform

>supporter.Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are

>opium

>poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling

>inside.

>Havent tried it. Claudia

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?
Date: April 30, 2004 at 3:04:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Claudia:
Since my use of opiates almost entirely consists of opium tea I can tell you a few things about it…first, it’s really JUST as potent as any other form of opiate, so mixing it with ibogaine is still probably a very bad idea. It’s also less predictable since it’s tough to say exactly how much opium is in each particular poppy pod. The two times I’ve almost OD’d were from opium tea, so adding ibo to the mix could definitely lead to death, due to that “potentiating factor” of ibo. (However I would agree with you that tea has great benefits in general over any other form of opium, with much less side effects.)
Second, I have never bought the dried poppy pods from craft stores, as the taste of dried poppy heads is even worse than the “fresh” and there are so many varieties of poppies – to me it seems just as likely that they could be any poppy, not just opium ones. However, having done dried poppy pods that I had from gardens myself, once the head dries, little holes form in the bottom of the head that the seeds fall out of, hence starting the growth cycle all over again. That said, there is absolutely no need for the seeds to be contained in the head, for the “plant material” to still be infused with dried opium. In short – you will get high, even if you don’t hear the seeds rattling around.
My two cents, and best to everyone.
Sandy

>From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?

>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:05:46 EDT

>If ibo by itself has failed so many people would it not be a good idea to

>combine it with

>something else like opium tea,either temporarily till one is over the hump or

>permanent

>maintenance for those who have a more severe problem or imbalance(perhaps in

>the

>brain perhaps permanent?)Opium tea is certainly more benign than heroin or

>synthetic

>opiates and you don’t shoot it thereby preventing damage to the

>viens,possible O.D.

>or death or spread of IDU diseaes.I think it’s a great idea but then I’m a

>big drug reform

>supporter.Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are

>opium

>poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling inside.

>Havent tried it. Claudia

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] The poop on bupe (buprenorphine)
Date: April 30, 2004 at 2:24:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Could anyone on the list share their experience with buprenorphine? What
does it feel like, how does it work? Would it be a helpful tool for
breaking major addiction? Or, a pharmaceutical “choke chain” replacing
the opiate high with another managed addiction like methadone. It is
presented as a method of easing the withdrawal pains and helping people
detox from addiction. Is that accurate? All input welcome,
doctor/therapist speak to addled street rant if it comes from experience.
Thanks.

Dr. Tom

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?
Date: April 30, 2004 at 1:42:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d suspect that taking poppy tea while on ibogaine might be somewhat
risky; I mean, certainly not as risky as say, shooting heroin, but since
drug interactions with ibogaine haven’t been very extensively studied, and
there is evidence to suggest that mixing ibogaine and heroin can be
lethal, I’d be hesitant to use any sort of opiate while on it…

From: iboga@ziplip.com <iboga@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] real
Date: April 30, 2004 at 4:39:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=55e80804-bb7c-47da-8ba4-801ec6dba67b /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] real
Date: April 30, 2004 at 12:05:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds like someone doesn’t want the ‘pot’ cafe there! It is a damn shame that all those businesses were destroyed because some individual or group wanted to ‘out’ the cafe.
Well, if it is arson it appears that may be the reason.
I really hope our world will change for the good before my grandchildren come to this life.
Peace and hello to all!
Callie

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] coffeeshops,
Date: April 30, 2004 at 9:06:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Send a mail to ‘ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com’

From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] coffeeshops,
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:19:35 -0800

How can I get taken off the mailist list?

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?
Date: April 30, 2004 at 8:53:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Claudia,
It would be a great idea to use Poppy tea but NEVER in combination with IBO.
You could get very sick.I would NOT try it.
And
If you are going to try it please I would like to know how you doing after.

Be well,

Sara

Van: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com [mailto:Cvolchkovaa@aol.com]  Verzonden: vrijdag 30 april 2004 6:06 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?

If ibo by itself has failed so many people would it not be a good idea to combine it with something else like opium tea,either temporarily till one is over the hump or permanent maintenance for those who have a more severe problem or imbalance(perhaps in the brain perhaps permanent?)Opium tea is certainly more benign than heroin or synthetic  opiates and you don’t shoot it thereby preventing damage to the viens,possible O.D. or death or spread of IDU diseaes.I think it’s a great idea but then I’m a big drug reform supporter.Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are opium poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling inside. Havent tried it. Claudia

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?
Date: April 30, 2004 at 7:39:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are opium
poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling
inside.
Havent tried it.<

They’re real poppies in most instances I’ve found, and tea is possible from
dried poppies in those craft stores, (although some poppies are much
stronger than others I’ve also found…I mean, heard) just make sure they
aren’t dyed some ugly color. Rinse them thoroughly before crushing and
bioling…oh shoot, I’m giving instructions for producing illegal drugs,
darn it. I’m a criminal. Shucks.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:05 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?

If ibo by itself has failed so many people would it not be a good idea to
combine it with
something else like opium tea,either temporarily till one is over the hump
or permanent
maintenance for those who have a more severe problem or imbalance(perhaps in
the
brain perhaps permanent?)Opium tea is certainly more benign than heroin or
synthetic
opiates and you don’t shoot it thereby preventing damage to the
viens,possible O.D.
or death or spread of IDU diseaes.I think it’s a great idea but then I’m a
big drug reform
supporter.Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are
opium
poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling
inside.
Havent tried it. Claudia

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] real
Date: April 30, 2004 at 7:21:32 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=55e80804-bb7c-47da-8ba4-801ec6dba67b
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] real
Date: April 30, 2004 at 7:18:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=55e80804-bb7c-47da-8ba4-801ec6dba67b
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
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From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] real
Date: April 30, 2004 at 4:48:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=55e80804-bb7c-47da-8ba4-801ec6dba67b
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and opium tea?
Date: April 30, 2004 at 12:05:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If ibo by itself has failed so many people would it not be a good idea to combine it with
something else like opium tea,either temporarily till one is over the hump or permanent
maintenance for those who have a more severe problem or imbalance(perhaps in the
brain perhaps permanent?)Opium tea is certainly more benign than heroin or synthetic
opiates and you don’t shoot it thereby preventing damage to the viens,possible O.D.
or death or spread of IDU diseaes.I think it’s a great idea but then I’m a big drug reform
supporter.Supposedly the dried poppy flowers available in craft stores are opium
poppies and can be made tea but you must make sure seeds are rattling inside.
Havent tried it. Claudia

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] attention ibogaine providers and patients
Date: April 29, 2004 at 11:54:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anyone on this list had any expereinces with paranoia during HCL treatment or after treatment? If so what kind of tools were used to help the patient over come it? Thanks in advance for the help. I hope everyone is doing well.
Jason Bursey
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4 your viewing plehzur
Date: April 29, 2004 at 11:32:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very cool bro!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:04:21 -0700 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
http://www.gammalyte.com/elixer.jpg

-d

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4 your viewing plehzur
Date: April 29, 2004 at 11:36:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

set it as my wallpaper! really, really want to experience this and see if it will work for me! this wallpaper will be a daily reminder to add some quarters to the Ibogaine fund!
Thanks!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] NARCONEWS UPDATE
Date: April 29, 2004 at 11:04:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thought some might want to see this
Callie
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <nerdmann@new.rr.com>
Subject: [vox] NARCONEWS UPDATE
Date: April 29, 2004 at 4:57:41 PM EDT
To: <A_Political_Debate_@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <vox@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: vox@mindvox.com

Dear Colleague,

Authentic Journalist Peter Gorman reports that the governments of Colombia
and the United States are “in clear violation” of court orders to cease
herbicide spraying as part of Plan Colombia, the multi-billion dollar US
military intervention in the Andes.

Gorman – a professor at the upcoming School of Authentic Journalism session
in Bolivia next July and August – writes:

“Despite two Colombian court rulings during 2003 ordering the suspension of
US-sponsored Plan Colombia aerial fumigation of coca and poppy crops until
environmental and human impact studies can be carried out, Colombia
continues to spray Monsanto’s Roundup-Ultra on fields and US officials
continue to maintain an eerie and criminal silence on the issue.

“The most recent ruling came 10 months ago, on June 13, 2003, when
Colombia’s Administrative Tribunal of Cundinamarca, the second highest court
in the country, responded to a class action lawsuit brought by concerned
citizens arguing that Plan Colombian spraying violates Colombian citizens’
right to a healthy environment. The court agreed and ordered the immediate
suspension of all narco-crop fumigation nationwide. The verdict supplemented
two earlier court decisions ordering the suspension of spraying on
indigenous land…”

Read the whole thing…

http://www.narconews.com/

Also, three more reports from Zapatista territory in Chiapas, Mexico, by
Narco News South American Bureau Chief Alex Contreras are now online, on
Narco News, as Contreras heads deeper into the Lacandon jungle to report
“from somewhere in the mountains of the Mexican Southeast.”

From somewhere in a country called América,

Al Giordano
Publisher, Narco News
President, The School of Authentic Journalism
http://www.narconews.com
narconews@hotmail.com

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] RE: Message Notify
Date: April 29, 2004 at 8:57:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: “bcalabrese@yahoo.com” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

break out the hazmat suits and disinfectant…

On 4/29/2004, “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

On [Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 07:09:36AM -0500], [Bcalabrese] wrote:

Brett, I’ve killed your account for right now. You’re infected with
sumthin’ and auto-sending crap into the list.

Patrick

| /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] RE: Message Notify
Date: April 29, 2004 at 6:28:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: bcalabrese@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 07:09:36AM -0500], [Bcalabrese] wrote:

Brett, I’ve killed your account for right now. You’re infected with
sumthin’ and auto-sending crap into the list.

Patrick

From: “Bcalabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Document
Date: April 29, 2004 at 7:02:00 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Terrell Tye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] coffeeshops,
Date: April 29, 2004 at 5:19:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How can I get taken off the mailist list?

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] emediawire article on ibogaine
Date: April 29, 2004 at 12:13:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this from 4.14.04

original: http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/4/emw118248.htm

——————————————-

Drug and Alcohol Detoxification with a Holistic Approach – Alcoholism,
Heroin Addiction, Opiate Addiction, Prescription Drug Addiction and
Others by John Giordano, CAP, MAC, CCJS and Trina Geiss, MPH

There are several new approaches to drug and alcohol detoxification and
addiction treatment that not only aid in alleviating the symptoms
associated with drug and alcohol addictions, but also enable the
individual to embark upon a new life with a more positive outlook than
ever before. More information can be found at
http://www.drugrehabcenter.com or by calling 800-559-9503.

(PRWEB) April 14, 2004 — Todays drug and alcohol detoxification centers
are really just stabilization centers. In order to comply with the term
detox, detoxification centers would have to wait until all drugs are
out of the clients system before discharging them. This, of course, is
not cost effective. There are several new approaches to treatment that
not only aid in alleviating the symptoms associated with addiction, but
also enable the individual to embark upon a new life with a more
positive outlook than ever before. These new treatments are considered
complementary, or alternative to conventional medicine. Unfortunately,
addicted individuals are far from functioning in society if they do not
enter a treatment program immediately following a detox episode.
Otherwise, they are sure to fail and relapse back into their drug abuse.
With our current detox methods, failure occurs much more often than
not and most people never make it to receive the type of treatment they
need. This is because most of the individuals leaving detoxification
centers are still drug affected, rendering them unable to make clear
decisions about treatment programs and recovery options. In order to
effectively combat this alarming and growing problem, alternative
treatment methods must be explored.

One such complementary modality that is quite popular for a variety of
functions is acupuncture therapy. Acupuncture is most widely used for
its pain relieving properties through sensory stimulation2. More
recently, acupuncture has been shown to successfully treat depression4,5
and alcohol withdrawal7. Acupuncture can be an efficacious treatment of
alcohol withdrawal symptoms when used in combination with traditional
therapies7. Acupuncture has been shown to reduce the desire for
alcohol1. The relief acupuncture causes works through local tissue
healing effect and central anti-stress mechanisms2. Acupuncture
detoxification therapy uses the application of acupuncture needles to
the ear, also called auricular acupuncture. These points target
different bodily functions and organs. The effects witnessed on the
individual include relaxation, decreased anxiety and restlessness,
reduced perspiration, intestinal cramps, watery eyes, and sneezing. It
also aids in the excretion of toxic substances for a speedier
recovery3,11. Acupuncture for addicted individuals supports a positive
mood, relieves stress, and aids in craving control. This therapy also
appears to assist in the healing process of the mind based on the
clients affect. In Oregon, heroin addicts MUST try acupuncture before
getting methadone6. The US National Institutes of Health (NIH) Consensus
Panel on Acupuncture reviewed the scientific literature and concluded
that acupuncture for addiction “may be useful as an adjunct treatment
or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive
management program. Overall, acupuncture has been shown to increase
substance abuse treatment adherence, reduce recidivism, and stabilize
mood.

Decreasing withdrawal or craving symptoms is an integral part of the
recovery process. Substance detoxification of the addicted individual is
paramount for the holistic healing process to occur. Some of the most
difficult substances to overcome include opiates and amphetamines. One
such holistic treatment that has worked wonders with withdrawal and
craving symptoms is ibogaine treatment. Ibogaine is taken from the
shrub, Tabernanthe iboga, and native to West Africa10,13. Indigenous
people use ibogaine in low doses to fight fatigue, hunger, and thirst;
it is taken in higher doses as a sacrament in religious rituals10.
Ibogaine has been shown especially effective for opiate detoxification
and for short-term stabilization of addicted individuals preparing to
enter substance abuse treatment8. Its healing effects have been shown to
significantly decrease craving for both heroin and cocaine along with a
decrease in depressive symptoms9,10.

Ibogaine appears to be a hopeful detox drug for the future. The results
seem extremely promising for long-term recovery and relapse prevention.
Research has been performed on ibogaines efficacy in treating alcohol
addiction, and researchers found that there was some proof that ibogaine
suppresses alcohol intake in animal models9,12. Ibogaine treatment is
not accepted by the FDA and therefore must be obtained in clinics
outside the United States. Ibogaine leaves the individual feeling
clear-headed with increased motivation and significant insight into the
causes of their addiction. For most, ibogaine does not serve as the
proverbial magic bullet, however this treatment is definitely above
current detoxification methods, where individuals leave shrouded in
their addiction while remaining hopeless of a future free from the
clutches of drugs.

There are a variety of other holistic substance abuse detox treatments
that aid those previously mentioned in overcoming cravings and ridding
the system of toxins. These should be used in conjunction with other
therapies. Proper diet and nutrition consisting of vitamin C, amino
acids, essential fatty acids, and sulfur proteins can have a very
positive effect. Vitamin C is a very potent anti-oxidant and will help
cleanse and destroy free radicals in the tissues. It also aids in
intestinal motility, which is an important component of getting clean
and sober. Amino acids, especially glutamine will stimulate the bodys
natural opiates and endorphins to help alleviate some cravings.
Essential fatty acids such as flax oil in combination with foods
containing sulfur proteins (cysteine or methionine) such as yogurt,
eggs, codfish, sesame paste, garlic, and onions will allow fat soluble
toxins to become water soluble for excretion through sweat and urine6.
In order to facilitate and expedite excretion of toxic substances,
perspiration must be enhanced. This should be done through rigorous
exercise and steam therapy, such as a Turkish wet steam. Following heavy
perspiration, the individual should clean themselves with a high-fat
soap to remove toxins excreted on the surface of the skin and prevent
their readsorption6.

Utilizing a variety of techniques that recognize the numerous needs and
requirements of an individual undergoing substance abuse detoxification
and treatment will have much more positive effects concerning treatment
outcome. Addiction is a disease that weaves its web throughout every
facet of an individuals life, therefore, when treating this insidious
disease all angles must be approached from a fresh perspective to gain
insight into more efficacious treatment opportunities.

More information can be found at http://www.drugrehabcenter.com or by
calling 800-559-9503 24/7 for a free consultation.

Works Cited:

1. Bullock ML, Kiresuk TJ, Sherman RE, Lenz SK, Culliton PD, Boucher
TA, Nolan CJ. (2002). A large randomized placebo controlled study of
auricular acupuncture for alcohol dependence. Journal of Substance Abuse
Treatment, vol. 22(2): 71-7.

2. Carlsson CP. (2001). Acupuncture therapy today. Background,
clinical use, mechanisms. Lakartidningen, vol. 98(46): 5178-82, 5185-6.

3. Fidler S. (n.d.) The successful use of auricular acupuncture in the
supported withdrawal and detoxification of substance abusers. Retrieved
4/2/04 from: www.acupuncture.com/Research/addictres.htm

4. Gallagher SM, Allen JJ, Hitt SK, Schnyer RN, Manber R. (2001).
Six-month depression relapse rates among women treated with acupuncture.
Complement Ther Med., vol. 9(4): 216-8.

5. Han C, Li XW, Luo HC. (2002). Comparative study of
electro-acupuncture and maprotiline in treating depression. Zhongguo
Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi, vol. 22(7): 512-4, 521.

6. Hoffmann DL, Kane E. (n.d.). Addiction. American Association of
Naturopathic Physicians.

7. Karst M, Passie T, Friedrich S, Wiese B, Schneider U. (2002).
Acupuncture in the treatment of alcohol withdrawal symptoms: a
randomized, placebo-controlled inpatient study. Addiction Biology, vol.
7(4): 415-9.

8. Leal MB, Michelin K, Souza DO, Elisabetsky E. (2003). Ibogaine
attenuation of morphine withdrawal in mice: role of glutamate
N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors. Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol
Psychiatry, vol. 27(5): 781-5.

9. Levi MS, Borne RF. (2002). A review of chemical agents in the
pharmacotherapy of addiction. Curr Med Chem, vol. 9(20): 1807-18.

10. Mash DC, Kovera CA, Pablo J, Tyndale RF, Ervin FD, Williams IC,
Singleton EG, Mayor M. (2000). Ibogaine: complex pharmacokinetics,
concerns for safety, and preliminary efficacy measures. Ann NY Acad Sci,
vol. 914: 394-401.

11. Miller J. (n.d.). An evaluation of an acupuncture program for drug
treatment in San Diego county. Retrieved 4/2/04 from:
www.acupuncture.com/Research/DrugSD.htm

12. Rezvani AH, Overstreet DH, Leef YW. (1995). Attenuation of alcohol
intake by ibogaine in 3 strains of alcohol preferring rats. Phamacol
Biochem Behav, vol. 52: 615-20.

13. Vastag B. (2002). Addiction treatment strives for legitimacy.
JAMA, vol. 288(24): 3096-3101.

# # #

From: “Bcalabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] RE: Message Notify
Date: April 29, 2004 at 8:09:36 AM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] krack down [OT]
Date: April 28, 2004 at 7:30:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

be-warez:

http://www.staticusers.net/flt/index.html

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] radioactive poison,
Date: April 28, 2004 at 3:55:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

No observations , but maybe someone had an experience after coming back from
Irak,needs to come off drugs and felt that toxicity coming out.

If Iboga and the THE OKLO PHENOMENON AND EVOLUTION are both coming from
gabon ,just makes me think about the posibility that those pygmies knew
What we don’t yet know and may find out soon because of the Irak war,a major
need of addictive medication to those who have been in
Irak as well as the need to detox. off those.
And the radio active weapon used
Must be felt by those who used them too.

So maybe it is a revelation but too soon to tell.

Greetings,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2004 16:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] radioactive poison,

In a message dated 4/28/04 1:42:21 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< Could Iboga be an antidote for radioactive poisoning? >>

Hi Sara,

Is the question posed due to revelation or are there some observations you
have? Not that it may not be true.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Does Aspartame work at NMDA receptor?
Date: April 28, 2004 at 11:04:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

History of Fraud and Deception Involving ASPARTAME
http://healingtools.tripod.com/thn6.html
Supreme Court Collusion in ASPARTAME Coverup
Clarence Thomas Former Monsanto Lawyer refused to consider arguments
that the FDA had not followed proper procedures in approving aspartame,
despite arguments that the product “may cause brain damage.”

Our Supreme Court, on Dec. 10, 2001, ruled 6-2 that plants — any plants — can be
patented. Attorney General and Missourian John Ashcroft asked for the ruling, which was
written by Clarence Thomas.

Monsanto’s lawyer Clarence Thomas was appointed to the Supreme Court by George Bush,
Sr. The deciding swing vote giving the election to George, Jr. was made by Clarence
Thomas, Esq

The Ultimate Hypocrisy: “Justice” Thomas, Who Smoked Marijuana At Yale Law School,
Writes Supreme Court Opinion Against Medical Cannabis. Persecuting the Sick and Dying.
http://www.marijuananews.com/news.php3?sid=448

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] radioactive poison,
Date: April 28, 2004 at 10:28:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/28/04 1:42:21 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

<< Could Iboga be an antidote for radioactive poisoning? >>

Hi Sara,

Is the question posed due to revelation or are there some observations you
have? Not that it may not be true.

Howard

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] radioactive poison,
Date: April 28, 2004 at 3:00:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Could Iboga be an antidote for radioactive poisoning?

Sara

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] coffeeshops,
Date: April 28, 2004 at 1:58:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dutch authorities oppose tighter drugs law   ANTHONY DEUTSCH IN AMSTERDAM    PLANS to tighten up the Netherlands’ famously liberal attitude towards cannabis have met with strong resistance by local authorities across the country.   The ruling conservative coalition drafted the new tougher drugs policy in the face of evidence showing a sharp increase in the potency of marijuana openly sold in many towns.   The prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende’s cabinet proposed to reduce the number of “coffee shops” where marijuana is sold and to ban sales of cannabis to foreign tourists in border areas.   For nearly 30 years, small quantities of marijuana and hashish have been sold at coffee shops.   Though the practice is tolerated, cannabis remains a controlled substance and technically its sale and use is illegal.   But the policy has been met with opposition by the Association of Netherlands Municipalities which said the move threatens to undermine years of successful drugs control.   Lex Estveld, a policy adviser, said the government was trying to fix a system that was not broken. “The entire Dutch drugs policy of controlling and containing soft drugs has proven reasonably successful in recent decades. If you ask me, we haven’t done bad when you compare us to other countries,” he said yesterday.   In its policy statement to parliament, the cabinet called for research into the health risks of higher potency cannabis amid concerns over a sharp increase in the content of THC, the active chemical of the cannabis plant.   If tests indicate the more powerful cannabis is psychologically damaging, it could be reclassified as a banned drug like cocaine and heroin, the cabinet statement said.   The cabinet acknowledged the long-standing policy of toleration had not led to higher rates of marijuana use. But it said “the strong increase in THC content, and the link between cannabis users and psychological disorders, is a reason for concern”.   The average percentage of THC in Dutch marijuana called Nederwiet, the most popular on the market, has doubled in three years to 18 per cent, said the Netherlands Institute of Mental Health and Addiction. The most potent hashish now has a THC content of up to 66 per cent, it said.   Under the government plan, the southern town Maastricht, bordering Germany and Belgium, will conduct a trial of the policy barring the sale of marijuana and hashish to tourists. It was not clear whether customers would have to produce proof of Dutch nationality.   A joint statement issued by 483 municipalities said the proposed measures would force the marijuana business underground.   ”The tone of the letter is too influenced by foreign [opinions] and gives insufficient credit to the successes of local coffee shop policies,” said the statement. “Concentrating the trade in soft drugs at coffee shops has the clear benefit of making it transparent and controllable.”   Roughly 780 coffee shops exist in the Netherlands, but half are in the three big cities of Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague. About 80 per cent of municipalities do not permit coffee shops. Government figures say the number of people who have tried marijuana in the Netherlands ranks in the middle of a range of EU countries, the United States and Australia.
From: epoptica@freeuk.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4 your viewing plehzur
Date: April 27, 2004 at 7:15:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

plehzur much appreciated………….thanks

quite brilliant

http://www.gammalyte.com/elixer.jpg

-d

/]=3D—————————————————————
——=3D[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.
com <)[%]
\]=3D—————————————————————
——=3D[/

—

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] test [ignore]
Date: April 27, 2004 at 5:10:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this is a test

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Everything is back to Abnormal
Date: April 27, 2004 at 1:03:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MindVox now has a new RAID array — which means: a buncha disks with much
greater bandwidth/space/IO — and two more CPU’s. This is a good thing,
because the number of people here has become somewhat staggeringly huge
and gargantuan … real big; stupendous n’ shit.

At the current rate of expansion, this should keep things stable, and not
FLYING out of anything, for, oh, say, 5 minutes; whoopsie, I meant to say:
6 months.

If anything you sent into @mindvox, @phantom or @wiretap, during the last
12 hours, has not arrived, or gone out through the lists/email. It should
just queue up and land in the next coupla hours. If — on the flipside —
it bounced back to you, because your ISP/connection has a very fast
timeout — AOL in particular gives up after only ’bout 4 hours — please
resend it.

Thanks much, you may go about your lives now.

Patrick

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 4 your viewing plehzur
Date: April 26, 2004 at 2:04:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.gammalyte.com/elixer.jpg

-d

From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] attention ibogaine providers and patients
Date: April 25, 2004 at 4:27:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bobby: Try Eric Taub in Gainsville, Fl. at e-mail ibeginagain@aol.com.
Phone 1-352-372-9014
1-800-608-4604

He is great. I got my Grandson treated so I can vouch for him. He has handled
more than 400. You will like him.

Tommy Goodson
—– Original Message —–
From: BOBBYBREZZ@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] attention ibogaine providers and patients

I am desperately trying to be treated with ibogaine. I live in Florida but I can not find anywhere to go to get treatment that is not on the other side of the world.
If you could inform me of the cheapest and closest way to get treatment for methadone addiction, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Bob

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] interesting salvia article and possible banning of honey
Date: April 25, 2004 at 9:47:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Below is the web page address for an interesting article on salvia and the
banning of honey.

http://thomas.munro.com/salvia.htm

Howard

From: BOBBYBREZZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] attention ibogaine providers and patients
Date: April 24, 2004 at 9:03:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] deadline alert
Date: April 24, 2004 at 8:17:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know everyone is quite busy and just wanted to remind you of the deadline
to have abstracts for the 5th national harm reduction conference be received by
April 30th. Abstract, abstract forms and bios may be faxed as well as mailed
or sent “enclosed” in email.

The conference abstract web page is
http://www.harmreduction.org/conf2004/c2004abstract.html

Follow instructions on the web page and downloadable pdf abstract form.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] attention ibogaine providers and patients
Date: April 24, 2004 at 6:29:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you have been treated with Ibogaine, we need your help! If you provide
ibogaine treatment please refer your patients to http://www.med.vu.nl/ibogaine/

A research team from the Free University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands, is
looking for individuals who have been treated with Ibogaine for drug and alcohol
use. A successful outcome of the treatment is not a requirement for
participation.

The goal of the research is to determine the long-term effects of Ibogaine
treatment.

Participation in the study is quite simple. We need each participant to fill
out a questionnaire in order to provide us with details of their drug history
and Ibogaine treatment. All the information obtained is confidential.
Participants who wish to take part anonymously are welcome as well.

It is hoped this research project will provide validation for the original
work of Prof. Dr. Jan Bastiaans who was the first medical doctor to treat
heroin, other opioid, cocaine and alcohol users with ibogaine. Your support is
appreciated.

If you would like to participate, please just click on or copy
http://www.med.vu.nl/ibogaine/ into your browser to get to the questionnaire web page and
answer the questions. Full instructions are included on the questionnaire. Be
sure to click on the “Submit” button when you are finished.

Thanks

Howard

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] You Can’t Trust the Drug ‘Experts
Date: April 24, 2004 at 2:29:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some drug Experts do tell the truth.

Interview Bay TV, Channel 35 San Francisco August 20, 1997

John Kessler: As the War on Drugs has grown in recent years, we’ve learned more and more about the dangers of marijuana. A new book called Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts , reviews the last thirty years of scientific research on pot and claims the dangers have been exaggerated by both the government and the media.
The authors are here with us today: Lynn Zimmer is professor of Sociology at Queens College in New York and Dr. John Morgan is a physician and professor of pharmacology. Welcome to both of you.
Dr. John Morgan: Thank you.
Lynn Zimmer: Hello.
John Kessler: First off, I guess there are a number of claims about marijuana…and you’ve done what, gone through all the research or the vast majority of research over the past few years about it?
Lynn Zimmer: Yes. Well, we start with what we hear said about marijuana. We looked in government documents, we read the speeches of government officials, we looked in drug education materials, we read articles in the newspapers, and we took the things that were commonly said about marijuana and then searched in the scientific research to see what exactly do the scientists say about those questions.
John Kessler: And does the research support what has been said about marijuana?
Dr. John Morgan: We think not at all, in fact, there has been an enormous disparity between what we as scientists and teachers have read in the literature about marijuana and what’s being said by current and former drug czars and The Partnership for a Drug Free America, so, it’s our belief that this disparity between what Americans have been told and what can be substantiated is enormous.
John Kessler: OK, before we get to some of the specific claims about marijuana and what the research shows, you’ve gotta tell me, why the book? What made you embark on this project?
Lynn Zimmer: Well, we kept seeing this disparity and we would talk with our students about it, talk with our friends about it, and we kept saying, what’s being said isn’t an accurate reflection of the science. They said ‘prove it’, so we wrote this book. We have sixty pages of references in the book which we suspect many people won’t read, but we wanted to very closely document our review of the research, so that people could check our accuracy.
John Kessler: Now are you endorsing the use of marijuana though?
Dr. John Morgan: No. The book is about claims about the harms of marijuana. We take no particular stand on policy, and we certainly don’t endorse the use of marijuana for children or adults. We don’t talk about that at all.
John Kessler: OK. Now, let’s get into some of those claims. ‘Marijuana is a gateway drug.’ What do you find there?
Lynn Zimmer: Well, this is probably the most commonly heard claim. Now we do know that if you start with a group of people who have used the least common drugs in the society…if you start with heroin users or the users of cocaine, a small minority of Americans use those drugs… you’ll find that most of them did previously use the most common drugs. So they did use alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and often marijuana, before they got to use the unpopular drugs. However, if you start in the other direction, if you start with a hundred people who have tried marijuana, one is a current regular user of cocaine. Now if marijuana were truly a gateway drug you would expect that to be 20, 30, 40 people out of a hundred. One person is a user of cocaine.
Dr. John Morgan: The claims of gateway go back to the 1950’s when we were told that marijuana was a gateway to heroin use; in the 1960’s we were told it was a gateway to LSD use; now we’re told it’s a gateway to cocaine use. In reality, marijuana for most users is a terminus drug rather than a gateway drug.
Lynn Zimmer: The large majority of marijuana users never use another illegal drug.
John Kessler: Ah. The effect on memory. Short term memory, I guess is one in particular.
Lynn Zimmer: Yeah. Well, during the few hours after people use marijuana they have some difficulty learning new material and recalling it. Now they can easily remember things they learned later, even while they’re high on marijuana. But if, for example, you give them a list of ten words to memorize while they’re high, they have difficulty remembering as many words if you ask them later. None of that translates into any kind of permanent memory loss. Many studies have been done looking at people who have used marijuana for many years, looking at people who have never used marijuana; they score the same on memory and all other kinds of intelligence and cognition tests.
John Kessler: Addictive?
Dr. John Morgan: There are no substances that humans take for pleasure that may not be addictive for some few people, but I think probably in terms of currently available psychoactive drugs, marijuana is the least addictive substance that humans use. I think it’s less addictive than caffeine. I would quickly add, it does not cause physical dependence; there are a few users who seem to love it so much that it interferes with their lives, but they are truly rare. Of the 70,000,000 Americans who have used marijuana, two-thirds of them have not used it in the past year. It is not a highly addictive substance.
John Kessler: Is it…it may be psychologically?
Dr. John Morgan: As we’re fond of saying, that there are no activities, such as shopping and getting tattoos, that are not addictive for some few people. So…the drug, pharmacologically, is minimally addictive.
John Kessler: Hmm. The effect, on, uh, fetuses?
Lynn Zimmer: A lot of research has been done in this area. I would say that we looked at more than a hundred studies that have been done. Now, of course, if you find…if you do the same research over and over again, you sometimes find one study that will have some outcome that looks bad. In one study you might find that the babies are slightly shorter born to women who use marijuana. So we looked at thirty years of these studies and found no convincing evidence that marijuana harms the fetus. Now, of course, we, like, I think almost all Americans, would say people shouldn’t smoke marijuana during pregnancy, they shouldn’t drink alcohol, they shouldn’t use any drugs, because that’s always the safest course; but it doesn’t look as if marijuana is very damaging to the human fetus.
Dr. John Morgan: It’s very important that people know this, because young women may smoke marijuana and then discover they’re pregnant; and if they’ve listened to the government statements they think, I’ve harmed this baby. The reality is, there is no evidence that marijuana is harmful to the fetus.
John Kessler: Some of these studies that you have studied were government studies, no?
Dr. John Morgan: Certainly government funded studies.
John Kessler: Have you theorized on why the discrepancy between what is being put out about marijuana and what the facts that you found say?
Lynn Zimmer: Well, we do think that people want to stop young people from using marijuana and that they’ve decided that exaggerating the dangers is the way to go. And often what they do is to take an animal study in which very high doses of marijuana are given to a very small animal and find some harm there and use that to make some assumptions about humans, with the hope that if we say enough bad things kids won’t use marijuana. And we don’t believe that that’s true; and part of the reason we wrote the book is that we think that Americans need to know the truth about marijuana and that if we want to talk to kids about drugs and discourage them from drugs we have to start with the facts.
Dr. John Morgan: The truth is a good place to start.
John Kessler: OK. I’m sorry we’ve run out of time now. It’s Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts , Lynn Zimmer, Ph.D., and John Morgan, M.D. Thank you very much.
Lynn Zimmer: Thank you.
Dr. John Morgan: Thank you for having us.
John Kessler: Interesting. [end transcript]

Van: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@cures-not-wars.org]  Verzonden: zaterdag 24 april 2004 15:48 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] You Can’t Trust the Drug ‘Experts

******************************************
You Can’t Trust the Drug ‘Experts’ By Dan Gardner Research on Illicit Substances Is As Biased As Its Funding Source ”One night’s ecstasy use can cause brain damage,” shouted a newspaper headline in September 2002, after the journal Science published a study that found a single dose of the drug ecstasy injected into monkeys and baboons caused terrible brain damage. Two of the 10 primates in the study had even died. The media trumpeted the news around the world and drug enforcement officials held it up as definitive proof of the vileness of ecstasy. But a year later, an odd thing happened. The author of the study, George Ricaurte, admitted his team had mistakenly injected the baboons and monkeys with massive doses of methamphetamine, not ecstasy, and Science formally retracted the article.  The retraction was scarcely reported and drug enforcement officials said nothing about it. Obscure as this incident may sound, it actually demonstrates something vitally important about research on illicit drugs, something few laymen understand but is well known among researchers and academics. It’s a deeply politicized field, says Peter Cohen, a professor at the Centre for Drug Research at the University of Amsterdam. ”There is no neutral science.” For critics such as Cohen, George Ricaurte illustrates the problems in illicit drug research. Long before the Science study made him notorious, Dr. Ricaurte was accused by some academics of producing biased science designed to make drugs look as dangerous as possible. The motive was funding. Scientific research and scientific careers are built on funding and drug research is particularly expensive — the flawed Science study cost $1.3 million U.S. alone.  ”Researchers need to get their money from somewhere,” says Cohen, but funding options are extremely limited. Pharmaceutical companies aren’t interested. And most governments aren’t prepared to pay a great deal of money for research on drugs they have already banned. The one exception is the United States, which lavishes money on drug research. As a result, the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse boasts that it ”supports over 85 per cent of the world’s research on the health aspects of drug abuse and addiction.” But that money comes with ideological strings attached. The American government is dominated by a drug-war ideology in which drugs are not simply another health risk that can be rationally studied and regulated. Drugs are criminal, immoral, even evil.  When most people think of alcohol, we draw a line between “use” and “abuse” – consumption that does no harm versus consumption that does. But because the drug-war ideology sees drugs as inherently wicked, it erases the line between use and abuse of illicit drugs. Any use is abuse. Any use is destructive. And the job of science is to prove In his now-retracted study, Dr. Ricaurte was trying to prove something — that even one dose of ecstasy causes brain damage –which neatly fits drug-war ideology. Not surprisingly, NIDA covered the $1.3 million U.S. cost of the research. In fact, Dr. Ricaurte has been given $10 million U.S. by NIDA over his career. In exchange, NIDA consistently got what it wanted: Research that hyped the dangers of ecstasy. But funding research is just one way American drug-war ideologues control the scientific research on illicit drugs. Not funding research can be just as effective when almost all the funding in the world comes from the U.S. “If I would approach NIDA and say I want to show that marijuana use is far less problematic than the use of alcohol, I
wouldn’t be funded,” says Cohen. Continued… http://www.drugsense.org/dsw/2004/ds04.n346.html#sec5
******************************************

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] You Can’t Trust the Drug ‘Experts
Date: April 24, 2004 at 9:48:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

******************************************
You Can’t Trust the Drug ‘Experts’ By Dan Gardner
Research on Illicit Substances Is As Biased As Its Funding Source
“One night’s ecstasy use can cause brain damage,” shouted a newspaper headline in
September 2002, after the journal Science published a study that found a single dose of
the drug ecstasy injected into monkeys and baboons caused terrible brain damage. Two
of the 10 primates in the study had even died. The media trumpeted the news around the
world and drug enforcement officials held it up as definitive proof of the vileness of
ecstasy. But a year later, an odd thing happened. The author of the study, George
Ricaurte, admitted his team had mistakenly injected the baboons and monkeys with
massive doses of methamphetamine, not ecstasy, and Science formally retracted the
article.

The retraction was scarcely reported and drug enforcement officials said nothing about
it. Obscure as this incident may sound, it actually demonstrates something vitally
important about research on illicit drugs, something few laymen understand but is well
known among researchers and academics. It’s a deeply politicized field, says Peter
Cohen, a professor at the Centre for Drug Research at the University of Amsterdam.
“There is no neutral science.” For critics such as Cohen, George Ricaurte illustrates
the problems in illicit drug research. Long before the Science study made him
notorious, Dr. Ricaurte was accused by some academics of producing biased science
designed to make drugs look as dangerous as possible. The motive was funding.
Scientific research and scientific careers are built on funding and drug research is
particularly expensive — the flawed Science study cost $1.3 million U.S. alone.

“Researchers need to get their money from somewhere,” says Cohen, but funding options
are extremely limited. Pharmaceutical companies aren’t interested. And most
governments aren’t prepared to pay a great deal of money for research on drugs they
have already banned. The one exception is the United States, which lavishes money on
drug research. As a result, the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse boasts that it
“supports over 85 per cent of the world’s research on the health aspects of drug abuse
and addiction.” But that money comes with ideological strings attached. The American
government is dominated by a drug-war ideology in which drugs are not simply another
health risk that can be rationally studied and regulated. Drugs are criminal, immoral,
even evil.

When most people think of alcohol, we draw a line between “use” and “abuse” —
consumption that does no harm versus consumption that does. But because the drug-war
ideology sees drugs as inherently wicked, it erases the line between use and abuse of
illicit drugs. Any use is abuse. Any use is destructive. And the job of science is to
prove In his now-retracted study, Dr. Ricaurte was trying to prove something — that
even one dose of ecstasy causes brain damage –which neatly fits drug-war ideology.
Not surprisingly, NIDA covered the $1.3 million U.S. cost of the research. In fact,
Dr. Ricaurte has been given $10 million U.S. by NIDA over his career. In exchange,
NIDA consistently got what it wanted: Research that hyped the dangers of ecstasy. But
funding research is just one way American drug-war ideologues control the scientific
research on illicit drugs. Not funding research can be just as effective when almost
all the funding in the world comes from the U.S. “If I would approach NIDA and say I
want to show that marijuana use is far less problematic than the use of alcohol, I
wouldn’t be funded,” says Cohen. Continued…
http://www.drugsense.org/dsw/2004/ds04.n346.html#sec5
******************************************

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(
Date: April 23, 2004 at 5:02:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,
I realize lawyers are expensive, but do you have one? It sound like you
definitely should (and I may have already asked you this, and if so please
forgive me I’m tired), but if you don’t get one now.
Thinking strong thoughts your way.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(

In a message dated 4/23/04 7:23:17 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

monster my entire adult life and I do not think that at 45 years old a
fucking
miracle is going to change my thinking and body chemistry!
This day has sucked big time!
I think as soon as I can afford a bag of weed I am going to get it!
I have kept my urines clean so the insurance would continue to pay and
since
I have been clean the past 6 or 7 months they must think I am cured. The

ignorance of it all just fucking boggles my mind!!
Well, enough belly aching!
I have been reading but have not been posting much.
I really need to try the Ibogaine route.
Hope you all are doing well! Don’t be strangers! If you want to drop me
a
e-mail, please do.
Peace to all!
Callie

Callie,

What does your clinic doctor say in response to your insurance company?
Does
he support that you no longer need methadone maintenence?

Howard

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[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(
Date: April 23, 2004 at 11:11:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Beatriz! I love your name!
I hope your son will do well. It will be important for him to detox slowly too.
We can correspond privately if you like.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(
Date: April 23, 2004 at 11:08:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, Harold he does not.
I will write you more later. I am still in process of sending letters and copies of those letters.
Like I have said before, I am blessed enough to be able to pay my bill every week. There are a lot of other folks who are not able and when the Tenncare quits paying for them, they will be back on the streets.
I filled out a request to begin a detox of 2mg a week. I will be in control and can stop the detox if I get to feeling bad.
It scare me to think of detoxing right now but 2mg a week is not a lot.
Like I said, I will write more later.
Callie

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatriz@pacific.net.hk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(
Date: April 23, 2004 at 8:05:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just want to say I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have little understanding of how the methadone program works where you are living – I live in Hong Kong and my son is on a government sponsored methadone program which has many faults but is not dependent on any insurance or physicians’ diagnosis. Yet and despite considerable improvement in his condition, he will shortly quit the program as he wants to take up a job that demands traveling. He has been to twelve-step treatments before just to relapse shortly afterwards. He started off on methadone last November and this has been I think his longest period off heroin and free from the overwhelming cravings and their destructive consequences. But then he still believes that he can do it by himself – he is only 24.

I have been following up the ibogaine research for a number of years and am learning a lot from you by being allowed to read the emails you exchange as well as the posted articles.

I hope you can find a way around it Callie, and if not maybe pursue the ibogaine option although I appreciate this maybe difficult to do at short notice. Please let me know how it goes.

Beatriz

—–Original Message—– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]  Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 12:54 PM To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(

Well, it sucks big time but the appeal I filed with my insurance denied my claim again. :>( There reason stated ‘ our physician feels further methadone maintenance is not medically necessary’ They may not think so but I know if I get off Methadone it would only be a matter of time before I was strung out , in prison or dead!  How do I know this? My past track record! I have tried to beat this fucking monster my entire adult life and I do not think that at 45 years old a fucking miracle is going to change my thinking and body chemistry! This day has sucked big time! I think as soon as I can afford a bag of weed I am going to get it! I have kept my urines clean so the insurance would continue to pay and since I have been clean the past 6 or 7 months they must think I am cured. The ignorance of it all just fucking boggles my mind!! Well, enough belly aching! I have been reading but have not been posting much. I really need to try the Ibogaine route. Hope you all are doing well! Don’t be strangers! If you want to drop me a e-mail, please do. Peace to all! Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(
Date: April 23, 2004 at 7:45:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/23/04 7:23:17 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

Callie,

What does your clinic doctor say in response to your insurance company? Does
he support that you no longer need methadone maintenence?

Howard

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Sucks ass! :>(
Date: April 23, 2004 at 12:53:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, it sucks big time but the appeal I filed with my insurance denied my claim again. :>(
There reason stated ‘ our physician feels further methadone maintenance is not medically necessary’
They may not think so but I know if I get off Methadone it would only be a matter of time before I was strung out , in prison or dead!
How do I know this? My past track record! I have tried to beat this fucking monster my entire adult life and I do not think that at 45 years old a fucking miracle is going to change my thinking and body chemistry!
This day has sucked big time!
I think as soon as I can afford a bag of weed I am going to get it!
I have kept my urines clean so the insurance would continue to pay and since I have been clean the past 6 or 7 months they must think I am cured. The ignorance of it all just fucking boggles my mind!!
Well, enough belly aching!
I have been reading but have not been posting much.
I really need to try the Ibogaine route.
Hope you all are doing well! Don’t be strangers! If you want to drop me a e-mail, please do.
Peace to all!
Callie

From: “Christina Thibeau” <thibechris@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] message board
Date: April 21, 2004 at 11:26:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all

I don’t know if this is the right address, but I used to belong to this “forum” a while back. I had a very close friend who died of an drug overdose who was quite interested in this drug. I totally forgot about this board, until I was working one day and happen to be talking to a gentleman whose name rang a bell to me, I do believe he may belong to this forum. he had a “mindvox” address. Is this the message board? sending emails etc?

Thank-you,

Christina Thibeau

_________________________________________________________________
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/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “wachtel” <wachtel@shani.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Travel Preperations
Date: April 22, 2004 at 3:04:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Try cannabis
Boaz

P.O.Box 2983 E.ven Yehuda 40500
Israel
Tel: 972-54-573679
Fax: 972-9-8996639

—–Original Message—– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]  Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:39 PM To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: [ibogaine] Travel Preperations

I am currently waiting on news about a trip to visit the Bwiti. I would like to thank those of you that have offered encouragement and advice to me about preperation and what to expect when I get there, Howard,Greg,Callie, etc… I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice on keeping my dose of methadone at 60 mgs. I use Kava,Valarien, and Melatonin to help me sleep and I was wondering if there is any other supplement, natural and legal or otherwise, that I could use to help me get through this? Any advise will be deeply appreciated. Thanx
Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] news,
Date: April 22, 2004 at 2:48:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The number of deaths in Germany resulting from the consumption of illegal drugs such as heroin fell to a 15-year low in 2003, the government’s drug commissioner, Marion Caspers-Merk, said.   A total of 1,477 people died after taking drugs last year, compared with 1,513 in 2002, according to the Health Ministry’s 2003 drug abuse report. Ten percent of them were ethnic Germans who had moved to Germany in recent years from eastern Europe or the former Soviet Union.   “Every drug-related death is one too many,” Caspers-Merk said at a press conference in Berlin. “But the increase in deaths show that government measures are having an effect.”   The government has stepped up programs to dissuade children and teenagers from taking drugs and is providing better medical attention for addicts, while the police have become more active in the fight against drug smuggling, today’s report said.   Cannabis maintained its position as the most frequently consumed illegal drug in Germany last year, being especially popular among young people, Caspers-Merk said. Half of all those between 18 and 24 years old have used cannabis at least once, the report said. Only 1.4 percent of adults had taken hard drugs such as heroin or cocaine.   While overall consumption of cigarettes and alcohol fell slightly, young people were making increasing use of these legal drugs, according to the report. “Alcopops,” or mixed drinks with fruit juice and alcohol, were very popular among teenagers even though the law prohibits their sale to people under the age of 18.   “Alcopops have replaced beer,” said Caspers-Merk. “Those who are starting to consume alcohol are becoming younger and drinking heavily, and alcopops are mainly to blame.”   The government plans to levy a special tax of 83 euro cents (99 U.S. cents) on alcopops to cut consumption, which increased more than fourfold between May 2001 and April 2002. It is also proposing to label the bottles clearly with the fact that they cannot be sold to under-18s, Caspers-Merk said.   Alcopops are colorful and trendy, come in small bottles and can be afforded out of pocket money, Caspers-Merk said. Sales are being helped by aggressive marketing, she said.   The negative effects of this growing consumption are already visible, she said. The number of young people aged 10 to 17 who drank so much that they had to be treated in hospital for alcohol poisoning increased by 26 percent in 2003, the report said. Half of those were girls.

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Scottish Addiction Studies On-line library this month
Date: April 22, 2004 at 2:23:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Icedrop48@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Scottish Addiction Studies On-line library this month

To get OFF this list:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
I NEED TO BE TAKEN OFF OF THIS LIST. I HAVE SUBMITTED MY CANCELLATION 6 TIMES NOW, AND THE INANITY KEEPS COMING, MAKE IT STOP!

From: Icedrop48@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Scottish Addiction Studies On-line library this month
Date: April 22, 2004 at 11:56:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I NEED TO BE TAKEN OFF OF THIS LIST. I HAVE SUBMITTED MY CANCELLATION 6 TIMES NOW, AND THE INANITY KEEPS COMING, MAKE IT STOP!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Travel Preperations
Date: April 22, 2004 at 11:38:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] food-craving compared to drug-craving
Date: April 22, 2004 at 10:28:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A very interesting study. Makes me wonder….

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2004/bnlpr041904.htm

Marko

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pictures of sacred plants
Date: April 22, 2004 at 8:24:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/22/04 7:21:57 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

I could not find the page
Callie

Both appear to be working

http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eknehnav/pictures1.html

http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/pictures1.html

Howard

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pictures of sacred plants
Date: April 22, 2004 at 1:10:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I could not find the page
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] JUDGE TELLS FEDS TO BACK OFF FROM MEDICAL POT GROUP
Date: April 21, 2004 at 10:04:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Newshawk: Detroit Medical Marijuana Initiative http://www.mmdetroit.org/
Pubdate: Wed, 21 Apr 2004
Source: Associated Press (Wire)
Copyright: 2004 Associated Press
Author: David Kravets, Associated Press
Note: David Kravets has been covering state and federal courts for a decade.
Cited: Wo/Men’s Alliance for Medical Marijuana http://www.wamm.org/
http://www.santacruzvsashcroft.com/
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/topics/wamm (WAMM Raid)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/find?230 (Santa Cruz v. Ashcroft)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/people/Valerie+Corral

JUDGE TELLS FEDS TO BACK OFF FROM MEDICAL POT GROUP

SAN FRANCISCO – A judge on Wednesday ordered the federal government to keep
away from a California medical marijuana group that grows and distributes
cannabis for its sick members.

The decision from U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel in San Jose was the
first interpretation of a federal appeals court decision here last year
that ordered the federal government not to prosecute a sick Oakland woman
who smoked marijuana with a doctor’s recommendation under a 1996 California
medical marijuana law.

Fogel ruled that the Justice Department cannot raid or prosecute the 250
members of the Wo/Men’s Alliance for Medical Marijuana, which sued the
government after the Drug Enforcement Administration in 2002 raided its
Santa Cruz County growing operation and seized 167 marijuana plants.

The group’s director, Valerie Corral, said the group had been receiving and
growing marijuana in secret since the raid out of fear of being prosecuted.
But with Fogel’s decision, the group intends on immediately planting
hundreds of plants at Corral’s one-acre property in the Santa Cruz hills.

“You better believe it we’re gonna plant,” Corral, who uses marijuana to
alleviate epileptic seizures, said in a telephone interview. “I’m leaving
now. It’s amazing.”

The Justice Department, which urged Fogel not to issue an injunction
barring new raids or prosecutions, declined comment. Spokesman Charles
Miller said the government was reviewing the decision.

The marijuana group asked Fogel to issue the injunction after the 9th U.S.
Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in December that a congressional act
outlawing marijuana may not apply to sick people with a doctor’s
recommendation in states that have approved medical marijuana laws.

The San Francisco-based appellate court, ruling 2-1, wrote that prosecuting
these medical marijuana users under a 1970 federal law is unconstitutional
if the marijuana isn’t sold, transported across state lines or used for
non-medicinal purposes.

“The intrastate, noncommercial cultivation, possession and use of marijuana
for personal medical purposes on the advice of a physician is, in fact,
different in kind from drug trafficking,” Judge Harry Pregerson wrote for
the 9th Circuit in December.

The court added that “this limited use is clearly distinct from the broader
illicit drug market, as well as any broader commercial market for medical
marijuana, insofar as the medical marijuana at issue in this case is not
intended for, nor does it enter, the stream of commerce.”

That decision was a blow to the Justice Department, which argued that
medical marijuana laws in nine states were trumped by the Controlled
Substances Act, which outlawed marijuana, heroin and a host of other drugs
nationwide. The Justice Department on Tuesday appealed that 9th Circuit
decision to the Supreme Court.

The Controlled Substances Act, as applied to the Santa Cruz cooperative,
Fogel wrote, “is an unconstitutional exercise” of federal intervention.

Fogel’s decision, meanwhile, furthers the conflict between federal law and
California’s 1996 medical marijuana law, which allows people to grow, smoke
or obtain marijuana for medical needs with a doctor’s recommendation.

Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, Oregon and Washington
state have laws similar to California, which has been the focus of federal
drug interdiction efforts. Agents have raided and shut down several medical
marijuana growing clubs.

The appeals court, the nation’s largest, does not have jurisdiction over
Colorado and Maine.

Wednesday’s decision, in addition to December’s Circuit ruling, are
outgrowths of a 2001 U.S. Supreme Court ruling. That year, the Supreme
Court said that medical marijuana clubs could not dole out medical
marijuana based on the so-called “medical necessity” of patients, even if
they have a doctor’s recommendation to use marijuana.

Justice Clarence Thomas wrote that an Oakland pot club could not defend its
actions against federal drug laws by declaring it was dispensing marijuana
to the medically needy.

But the justices said they addressed only the issue of a so-called “medical
necessity defense” being at odds with the Controlled Substances Act that
says marijuana, like heroin and LSD, has no medical benefits and cannot be
dispensed or prescribed by doctors.

In the 2001 decision, Justice Thomas wrote that Supreme Court left several
questions unresolved, including whether the government could interfere with
the states to make their own medical marijuana laws.

“The Supreme Court had left this door open,” said Gerald Uelmen, a scholar
at the Santa Clara University School of Law who represented the Wo/Men’s
Alliance for Medical Marijuana.

The case decided Wednesday is Santa Cruz v. Ashcroft, 03-01802.

From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] pictures of sacred plants
Date: April 21, 2004 at 9:23:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, maps_forum@maps.org
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some pictures of the last 2 years, mainly entheogens in their
natural space, I toke in mexico, peru and ecuador and the US

http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/pictures1.html <http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eknehnav/pictures1.html>
Henk

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] We’ve lost war on drugs, must we lose our rights?
Date: April 21, 2004 at 8:06:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Click Here: Check out “Chicago Sun-Times – Neil Steinberg”
We’ve lost war on drugs, must we lose our rights?
what a deviant bunch a lawmakers!
md

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Speed up-regulates HIV replication
Date: April 21, 2004 at 1:42:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BBC News:

*Drug ‘speeds up’ HIV*
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/health/2026834.stm>

The drug methamphetamine may increase the replication of HIV cells in
the brain, scientists suggest.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Scottish Addiction Studies On-line library this month
Date: April 21, 2004 at 10:47:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

New in the Scottish Addiction Studies On-line library this month:
http://www.dass.stir.ac.uk/drugs/library.htm

On-line Libraries

The Psychedelic Library (Whacky but quite interesting selection of books)

Downloads

WHO (2000) International Guide for Monitoring Alcohol Consumption and

Related Harm (Geneva, WHO)

Watson, H., McLaren, W., Shaw, F. and Nolan, A.,, (2003) Measuring staff

attitudes to people with drug problems: The development of a tool

(Edinburgh, Scottish Executive/Effective Interventions Unit)

Elliot, R., Malkin, I. and Gold, J., (2002) Establishing Safe Injection

Facilities in Canada: Legal and Ethical Issues (Toronto, Canadian HIV/AIDS

Legal Network)

Lifeline Project (2002) Heroin Addiction: A service-users’ guide to rights

and responsibilities (Manchester, Lifeline Project)

On-line Documents

Watson, H., McLaren, W., Shaw, F. and Nolan, A.,, (2003) Measuring staff

attitudes to people with drug problems: The development of a tool

(Edinburgh, Scottish Executive/Effective Interventions Unit)

Hollingshead, M., (1973) The Man Who Turned On the World (London, Bond &

Briggs)

Inglis, B., (1975) The Forbidden Game: A social history of drugs (New York,

Charles Scribner’s Sons)

(Note: The Scottish Addiction Studies On-line library at:

http://www.dass.stir.ac.uk/drugs/library.htm

tries to bring together the most useful on-line alcohol and drugs documents

together in a single website. Currently the site will give you access to

around 7,500 on-line documents and downloads. I welcome suggestions for

books, reports etc. to be included. I am still attempting to source

European language versions of the EuropASI (or, indeed other instruments) .

I try to add the “best of the rest each month” and notify the EWODOR and

Alcohol Misuse lists. However, please bear with me as this is very much a

single-handed operation and there is a lot of pressure on my time – RY).

PLEAS NOTE: We have a new address (as above) the old address will continue

to automatically redirect you for the forseeable future. We are still here

despite the previously reported funding difficulties but the lack of funding

does mean that the Library can not be as assiduously maintained as in the

past and new additions will not be quite so regular.

Scottish Addiction Studies

Sociology, Social Policy & Criminology Section

Department of Applied Social Science

University of Stirling

http://www.dass.stir.ac.uk/drugs/library.htm

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Speed up-regulates HIV replication
Date: April 20, 2004 at 3:49:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BBC News:

*Drug ‘speeds up’ HIV*
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/health/2026834.stm>

The drug methamphetamine may increase the replication of HIV cells in
the brain, scientists suggest.

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 20, 2004 at 9:04:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh yeah, thanks Bill for those links. I had a look, can a relate to some stuff there, gonna have a more thorough look later.
Luke

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:29:32 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Luke,

> It seems my memory or anxiousness
> are/where always worse around people and in social situations hence I chose
> working with computers and why I drunk so much so that I could be social.

Hang in there – sounds like you’re making some good progress. I think the
key might be finding connections that have tolerable amounts of stress,
getting recognition and knowing people in those contexts. This list
might be part of that.

There’s a web site called “The Dual Diagnosis Pages” that describes
the types of psychologies of drug users (which I like to think of
as being like a druggie horoscope). Here’s the page that your description
reminds me of, in case some of it might be interesting:

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/avoid.htm

And here’s the main page for the DD Pages:

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/ddhome.htm

Bill

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 20, 2004 at 8:08:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bill, Jon, Paul,
Thanks for the info. I don’t think I’m getting any severe withdrawal symptoms. I cut down my consuption over a several months so I may be feeling effects of mild withdrawel combined with other environmental stresses.
The past 6 months especially have been stressfull. I was moved back into a very productivity orientated department and have been gettting a lot of pressure, given diciplinary warnings for time keeping(maybe 5 or 10 minutes late) and my level of productivity was down. It’s been creating a lot of unecessary unpleasantness for me while I’m at this crossroads of trying to straighten out my life. I also just found out that they’re lifting a pay freeze that’s been in place for 3 years due to economic down turn but that won’t include people on a diciplinary. It really makes me feel like just a number instead of a human being. I’ve worked for this company for 7 years and right now I really feel like telling them to go fu*k themselves only I’m still in the process of sorting out my debts and finding what I want to do so I can formulate a plan of action.
I’m talking anti-depressants(Lustrel, think it’s called Zoloft in the US) and this seems to help ease the stress but they tent to make me feel sleepy or sluggish mentaly. I’m also curious about some of the new cognitave drugs/herbs. I’ve read that some are helpfull for restoring any mental deficits caused by alcohol, it sometimes feels like it takes me all day to wake up. The exercise is deffinately helps, I enjoy cycling and now that the summer months are coming there should be some nice evenings 🙂
Thanks
Luke

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From: “Levent Arslan” <l.arslan@beyoglu-documentary.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Documentary project about Ibogaine in Germany
Date: April 19, 2004 at 1:58:13 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey leute,

If you are from Germany please contact me.

levent@mail.com

Ciao!

Levent

—– Original Message —–
From: “franca cereghini” <franca@dircon.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Documentary project about Ibogaine in UK

Dear All

I’m a documentary filmmaker who is researching the possibility of making a
film about Ibogaine as a potential cure for drug addiction.
If you are from UK and are considering taking Ibogaine to cure your
addiction and wouldn’t mind to feature in a documentary please contact me on

franca@dircon.co.uk

to have a chat. I’m interested in people who are thinking about taking
Ibogaine in UK and also in someone who is intrigued by the idea of going to
Gabon to take it within a Bwiti ceremony.

Thank you for your help

Franca

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From: franca cereghini <franca@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 19, 2004 at 10:20:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 19/4/04 2:56 am, Patrick K. Kroupa at digital@phantom.com wrote:

On [Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 03:40:36AM +0100], [John St. James] wrote:

| Does anyone on this list know what happened to Heroin
| Times? Did they go under? There has been no new issue
| for over half a year. Patrick, where is the magazine?
| heroin.org and paradise engineering list you as being
| the editor and Mindvox links paradise engineering so
| where’s the magazine?

I’d suggest sending Jerry some email, and seeing if he answers it.

Despite what may be said on the internet, I was never THE editor of Heroin
Times. I wrote an ibogaine column that appeared in every issue, for about
two years. There was no dispute or problem with anybody, I just ran out
of time and got tired of doing it.

| It goes down from there with others saying they have
| friend’s detoxed in canada, mexico, st. kitts, all
| failures none stayed clean.

Shit happens. And everything anybody says on ThE InTeRnEt is always
absolutely true! If at first you don’t succeed, give up.

Whoopsie, I meant to say something completely different.

Maybe they just need to do ibogaine in Alaska. Or Iraq; or the Amazon …
or in a Space Station orbiting Mars. On a boat. With a goat — no, wait,
that was the Greeks and those wacky webcam people from Brazil. Nevermind.

| Links to intervention.org,
| where the person running it says you are not off
| heroin (you being Patrick, my sentence is getting hard
| to follow just noticed that, sorry.)

That’d be Chris; and what you’re talking about happened a long time ago.
He said a bunch of crazy shit about me, which was kinda annoying since I
don’t know him. “Uhm … Chris, nevermind knowing me, or meeting me in
person … I’ve never even talked to you, voice or through email. So …
how the fuck can you possibly know ANYTHING about me. Are you
psychic…?”

The reply amounted to, “You trashed the 12-steps in one of your columns,
therefore you can’t possibly be clean.”

We agreed to disagree. He linked MindVox and WackyCrackHeads from his
intervention site, and added me to his email list. Whatever else he may
be — and, he’s a complete fucking lunatic, which makes him pretty much
okay — he’s a good photographer. The end. <Shrug>

Patrick

From: franca cereghini <franca@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Documentary about Ibogaine in UK
Date: April 19, 2004 at 10:20:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear All

franca@dircon.co.uk

to have a chat. I’m interested in people who are thinking about taking
Ibogaine in UK and also in someone who is intrigued by the idea of going to
Gabon to take it within a Bwiti ceremony.

Thank you for your help

Franca

From: franca cereghini <franca@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Documentary project about Ibogaine in UK
Date: April 19, 2004 at 7:46:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear All

franca@dircon.co.uk

to have a chat. I’m interested in people who are thinking about taking
Ibogaine in UK and also in someone who is intrigued by the idea of going to
Gabon to take it within a Bwiti ceremony.

Thank you for your help

Franca

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 18, 2004 at 9:56:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 03:40:36AM +0100], [John St. James] wrote:

I’d suggest sending Jerry some email, and seeing if he answers it.

| It goes down from there with others saying they have
| friend’s detoxed in canada, mexico, st. kitts, all
| failures none stayed clean.

Shit happens. And everything anybody says on ThE InTeRnEt is always
absolutely true! If at first you don’t succeed, give up.

Whoopsie, I meant to say something completely different.

| Links to intervention.org,
| where the person running it says you are not off
| heroin (you being Patrick, my sentence is getting hard
| to follow just noticed that, sorry.)

The reply amounted to, “You trashed the 12-steps in one of your columns,
therefore you can’t possibly be clean.”

Patrick

From: DPabon@webtv.net (David Pabon)
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 18, 2004 at 5:45:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR E-MAIL LIST …….
THANK YOU

From: DPabon@webtv.net (David Pabon)
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions Mindvox Spam Tangled Web
Date: April 18, 2004 at 5:43:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR MAILING LIST…………..
THANK YOU

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Healing Transitions Mindvox Spam Tangled Web
Date: April 18, 2004 at 2:41:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is it me or is the whole internet high right now.

For a good time go to google, enter: mindvox

Nothing else. No ibogaine.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=mindvox

Watch search results:

The usual 800 pages of Mindvox hits compressed into 4 entries for
mindvox, phantom, wiretap.

MindVox: Last Exit For The Lost

.. I Hate Grownups ..
I am your War Machine / I am your Ghetto Scene
“Nothing is True / Everything is Permitted”
Designated Transmitter: Carl Nyblom-Waltenburg

Scroll to bottom of page.

This spamatron:

cgi.tripod.com/ibogaine-detox/cgi-bin/index.pl?oxycontin=kidney&drug=detoxification

Is using mindvox to spam search engines and make it land on ibogaine.
Or ibogaine.net to be more exact 😉

I dont know if it’s funnier that Healing Transitions is paying to spam
search engines using mindvox, or what it means. You’re looking for
Mindvox? Obviously you need to be detoxed!

Patrick you really should start a rehab. Or a cult. No, you already
have one of those, but I meant a organised one, what are they called,
oh yes, religions!

I gave you all this advice for free, do I get a coupon for laser hair
removal or a work at home business starter kit?? 😉

.:vector:.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 18, 2004 at 10:48:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

About anything else she is a smart person who has been
hurt by life. <

Personally, I get along well with Anne,
But then, I’m not arguing one way or the other for or against ibogaine,
other than it should be a legal option for anyone who wishes to try it to do
so.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?

I don’t understand anything at all about that site or
sites so I won’t comment except if that is one guy
then he is really really really crazy and brilliant
and has published at least 10 chemistry books online.
I don’t see him saying anything about ibogaine at all
one way or the other. http://www.bltc.com links to 300
of his other sites, all of which link sideways to more
of his sites. Whoever he is, he’s not only crazy or
brilliant, but he never stops writing 😉

Anne is from a long time ago I think? I talked to
someone named antelope@att.com or net years ago, she
was a poet from the east village on methadone. If
that’s the same one, I can’t find anything in heroin
times, ever, it’s a big mess. She had a very bad
ibogaine experience and has published that same
article in different versions in a lot of different
places. She’s very hard to talk to, about ibogaine.
About anything else she is a smart person who has been
hurt by life.

Sorry, didn’t answer your question. No idea what
happened to heroin times! The intervention.org is also
from years ago, he went through this list, argued with
everyone and left in 2002? before that?

Carla B

— “John St. James” <swordinstone2003@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Does anyone on this list know what happened to
Heroin
Times? Did they go under? There has been no new
issue
for over half a year. Patrick, where is the
magazine?
heroin.org and paradise engineering list you as
being
the editor and Mindvox links paradise engineering so
where’s the magazine?

For someone who knows you, they are trashing
ibogaine
hard in the junkie forums. Comes down to it may have
worked for you, but you are the exception, links out
to a article by “A. Ardolino” saying Lotsof and
Sisko
sold her ibogaine and robbed her in a hotel.

It goes down from there with others saying they have
friend’s detoxed in canada, mexico, st. kitts, all
failures none stayed clean. Links to
intervention.org,
where the person running it says you are not off
heroin (you being Patrick, my sentence is getting
hard
to follow just noticed that, sorry.)

All the issues are still online, where is Heroin
Times? Anybody?

__________________________________
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 18, 2004 at 12:42:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro you’re talking about the somni-seed forums, they were discussing
the KRON piece with deborah and patrick. Taking it in context patrick
came up because he has never told anyone how heroin is this bad thing
that ruins your life and to stay away, he’s honest about it good and
bad which I think is why Dr. Moraes reads from his work in SF 🙂 he
also links Mindvox with the usual pro-heroin sites, little strange to
see him promoting melting, glowing psychedelic. Not his usual material
😉

They do say he is editor at Heroin Times. If he is or was, Patrick never
mentioned it, all he did was complain about the magazine and say he was
going to stop writing for it when he was at the ibo conference in SF.
Then he did stop writing for them 😉 Great to have goals and follow
through 😉 I don’t think it made much of a difference because they spent
the next year and a half reprinting your articles and then died last
fall. It wasn’t a bad magazine. It isn’t like there is any other great
heroin magazine to replace it. The ‘real’ junkie sites and publications
have the slowest and worst publishing schedules of anything I’ve ever
seen. I think it might have something to do with everyone who runs them,
being busy doing drugs instead of writing about them 😉

Starting a detox with ibogaine, or detox with anything conversation is
not going to be welcome at somni. They are cross-breeding and selling
super poppy seeds, grow kits, books. They want stronger and better heroin,
not to stop using it. Saying they should detox would be about as welcome
as someone going to cannabis culture and telling everyone they are stoner
losers and should stop smoking pot.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:40:36 -0700 “=?iso-8859-1?q?John=20St.=20James?=”
<swordinstone2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Does anyone on this list know what happened to Heroin
Times? Did they go under? There has been no new issue
for over half a year. Patrick, where is the magazine?
heroin.org and paradise engineering list you as being
the editor and Mindvox links paradise engineering so
where’s the magazine?

For someone who knows you, they are trashing ibogaine
hard in the junkie forums. Comes down to it may have
worked for you, but you are the exception, links out
to a article by “A. Ardolino” saying Lotsof and Sisko
sold her ibogaine and robbed her in a hotel.

It goes down from there with others saying they have
friend’s detoxed in canada, mexico, st. kitts, all
failures none stayed clean. Links to intervention.org,
where the person running it says you are not off
heroin (you being Patrick, my sentence is getting hard
to follow just noticed that, sorry.)

All the issues are still online, where is Heroin
Times? Anybody?

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 18, 2004 at 12:02:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla B

All the issues are still online, where is Heroin
Times? Anybody?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4×6 digital prints for 25ข
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash

From: “John St. James” <swordinstone2003@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Heroin Times?
Date: April 17, 2004 at 10:40:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@Mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone on this list know what happened to Heroin
Times? Did they go under? There has been no new issue
for over half a year. Patrick, where is the magazine?
heroin.org and paradise engineering list you as being
the editor and Mindvox links paradise engineering so
where’s the magazine?

For someone who knows you, they are trashing ibogaine
hard in the junkie forums. Comes down to it may have
worked for you, but you are the exception, links out
to a article by “A. Ardolino” saying Lotsof and Sisko
sold her ibogaine and robbed her in a hotel.

It goes down from there with others saying they have
friend’s detoxed in canada, mexico, st. kitts, all
failures none stayed clean. Links to intervention.org,
where the person running it says you are not off
heroin (you being Patrick, my sentence is getting hard
to follow just noticed that, sorry.)

All the issues are still online, where is Heroin
Times? Anybody?

____________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger – Communicate instantly…”Ping”
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine – mid session -a question
Date: April 17, 2004 at 6:56:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/17/04 9:52:02 PM, epoptica@freeuk.com writes:

I should add that he felt the test dose of 100mg more than anyone I have
ever given it to and felt it extremely quickly – within fifteen minutes.
It is from this and his recation to the ibogaine after 20 mins, and his
admission of reactions to all drugs that I would posit he is a fast
metaboliser.

Metabolization concerns itself with the transformation by the liver of
ibogaine to noribogaine. What you are describing is rapid absorption. As you
describe his response as more than anyone else it is not impossible that he is a
poor metabolizer and is responding fully to ibogaine and not noribogaine.

Howard

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine – mid session -a question
Date: April 17, 2004 at 4:40:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard,

I had administered 10 mg domperidone 1 hr before ingesting ibogaine as this
usually does the trick to prevent this kind of experience from happening.
However to clear up the picture after we talked for a little while and I
decided it was better not to administer as I didn’t think it would do much –
a 300/400mg dose and didn’t want to give him an extra 15mg/kg as then you
run the risk of shooting the ibogaine levels pretty high. I suggested a few
things, had him relax and keep his eyes closed and he then drifted in and
out of the experience until about an hour ago which meant he had eight hours
in total, four hours of peak experience and four hours of drifting. He is
still unable to walk properly and his spatial awareness is somewhat
distorted. There were a lot of expectations and in my view this can
sometimes prevent the experience. I also suggested that the vomiting could
have been a reaction to the intensity of the come up, which he says was
extremely intense and he agreed that it felt more like that than a rectaion
to the ibogaine itself. Ie the intensity shocked him to such an extent that
he threw up.

I should add that he felt the test dose of 100mg more than anyone I have
ever given it to and felt it extremely quickly – within fifteen minutes. It
is from this and his recation to the ibogaine after 20 mins, and his
admission of reactions to all drugs that I would posit he is a fast
metaboliser.

Thanks for your help.

Hattie

PS I will ask him if he wants to repeat the experience tomorrow.
Blood pressure and pulse were fine throughout.
In a message dated 4/17/04 4:45:38 PM, epoptica@freeuk.com writes:

In the middle of a session with a 36 year old relatively clean male. He
has not used in the last month and his problem is binge using once a month
more or less and constant cannabis smoking which he wants to stop. He vomited
40 minutes after ingesting and now 4 and a half hours later is pretty much
down. I gave him 15 mgs per kg so no problem with dose but now obviously
he is a little disappointed. I was wondering as this has happened before
about
redosing with say 300-400 mgs now as a booster. His health tests were all
fine and by all accounts and purposes he is fit.

The only time I have done this before not much changed, ie it didn’t boost
the experience just made the person vomit again and was a waste really,
except they got to feel that at least they had given it their best shot.

Can any other treatment providers give an opinion on this. It would be
most appreciated.

Just so you can get a feel, he did get a very strong first four hours,
series of visions and he is a fast metaboliser.

Hi Hattie,

Chances are that your subject absorbed very little ibogaine. If he were a
patient in a hospital I would have suggested redosing immediately by rectal
administration with an additional 15mg/kg. As you are not in a hospital I
would
observe the patient for 24 hours, checking blood pressure and making any other
observations as to effects on the patient and then consider administering a
full dose at the 15mg/kg level rectally. Of course you may also do this a week
from now and ask for a medical consult on the matter as well. As the patient
may be vomiting do to a systemic response and if you want to limit vomiting
and
make the patient more comfortable the most effective drug I have seen to
treat ibogaine related vomiting was metoclopramide (reglan) 10mg – 20 mg
orally 1
hour prior to administration of ibogaine. Once again seek a medical consult.
I am providing information from my clinical experience and not advice on
treating your patient.

I don’t think that providing 300mg – 400mg as a booster will accomplish much
in reaching the effects of a 15mg/kg dose and, how do you know the patient is
a fast metabolizer?

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine – mid session -a question
Date: April 17, 2004 at 1:31:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/17/04 4:45:38 PM, epoptica@freeuk.com writes:

Can any other treatment providers give an opinion on this. It would be
most appreciated.

Just so you can get a feel, he did get a very strong first four hours,
series of visions and he is a fast metaboliser.

Hi Hattie,

Chances are that your subject absorbed very little ibogaine. If he were a
patient in a hospital I would have suggested redosing immediately by rectal
administration with an additional 15mg/kg. As you are not in a hospital I would
observe the patient for 24 hours, checking blood pressure and making any other
observations as to effects on the patient and then consider administering a
full dose at the 15mg/kg level rectally. Of course you may also do this a week
from now and ask for a medical consult on the matter as well. As the patient
may be vomiting do to a systemic response and if you want to limit vomiting and
make the patient more comfortable the most effective drug I have seen to
treat ibogaine related vomiting was metoclopramide (reglan) 10mg – 20 mg orally 1
hour prior to administration of ibogaine. Once again seek a medical consult.
I am providing information from my clinical experience and not advice on
treating your patient.

I don’t think that providing 300mg – 400mg as a booster will accomplish much
in reaching the effects of a 15mg/kg dose and, how do you know the patient is
a fast metabolizer?

Howard

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine – mid session -a question
Date: April 17, 2004 at 11:45:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the middle of a session with a 36 year old relatively clean male. He has
not used in the last month and his problem is binge using once a month more
or less and constant cannabis smoking which he wants to stop. He vomited 40
minutes after ingesting and now 4 and a half hours later is pretty much
down. I gave him 15 mgs per kg so no problem with dose but now obviously he
is a little disappointed. I was wondering as this has happened before about
redosing with say 300-400 mgs now as a booster. His health tests were all
fine and by all accounts and purposes he is fit.

Can any other treatment providers give an opinion on this. It would be most
appreciated.

Just so you can get a feel, he did get a very strong first four hours,
series of visions and he is a fast metaboliser.

Thanks

Hattie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] psilocybin cancer study
Date: April 17, 2004 at 11:49:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s good news!

My own experience with administrating magic mushrooms for the last four
years.
Is that indeed it is reducing or totally stopping anxiety depression and
physical pain.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 april 2004 15:09
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] psilocybin cancer study

Dear list,

Dr. Charles Grob with the support of MAPS will be conducting a study to
determine the benefits of psilocybin as an adjunct to end stage cancer
patients and
is seeking patients for inclusion in this study.

If you know someone who may want to participate please have them visit the
web page. http://www.canceranxietystudy.org/

The Research & Education Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center is
conducting a study designed to measure the effectiveness of the novel
psychoactive
medication psilocybin on the reduction of anxiety, depression, and physical
pain.

In order to participate, you must:

cardiovascular disease, including hypertension.
* Not be taking insulin, oral hypoglycemic, anti-seizure, high blood
pressure, or heart medications.

http://www.canceranxietystudy.org/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] psilocybin cancer study
Date: April 17, 2004 at 9:09:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

Dr. Charles Grob with the support of MAPS will be conducting a study to
determine the benefits of psilocybin as an adjunct to end stage cancer patients and
is seeking patients for inclusion in this study.

If you know someone who may want to participate please have them visit the
web page. http://www.canceranxietystudy.org/

The Research & Education Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center is
conducting a study designed to measure the effectiveness of the novel psychoactive
medication psilocybin on the reduction of anxiety, depression, and physical pain.

In order to participate, you must:

*   Have stage IV cancer and anxiety.
*   Be between the ages of 18 – 65.
*   Not have cancer that affects the central nervous system or brain function.
*   Have no history of major psychiatric disorder.
*   Have no kidney disease, abnormal liver functions, diabetes, epilepsy, or
cardiovascular disease, including hypertension.
*   Not be taking insulin, oral hypoglycemic, anti-seizure, high blood
pressure, or heart medications.

http://www.canceranxietystudy.org/

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 17, 2004 at 1:22:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Luke – comment on Bill’s comment – no offense Bill – your comments are
correct, but i don’t think like need worry about DT’s – having been alcohol
free for a month or something. withdrawl needs to be monitored in heavy
drinkers for less than a week I believe – so luke is well past that.
Luke – your idea about exercise is the A1 No.1 ++++ thing you can do. It’ll
be hard for a few weeks but I guarantee you will feel 150% better. Go
exercise at lunchtime and your work day, especially afternoons will be
great – productive, focused, enjoyable. I know it seems crazy, but it is
true i guarantee.

Good luck.

Cheers,

OOps, wrong term, how about:

See ya,
Paul

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal

I’m wondering is it more damaging psychologically to stop
abruptly? I can’t really be sure how much of this is emotional issues
brought up by ibogaine and how much could be physicall alcohol
withdrawal.
if anyone has any experience or information related to this i would be
greatfull.

Psychologically, stopping alcohol abruptly can certainly be stressful, so
be sure you have a support network in place before you do it.

But the most significant dangers of stopping alcohol abruptly are physical
ones. Unlike opiate withdrawal, it is not uncommon for alcohol withdrawal
to be lethal. If you are going to stop abruptly, be sure you are familiar
with the symptoms of delirium tremens (e.g. shakes, profuse sweating,
hallucinations, seizures, etc), and have someone available to drive you to
an emergency room in case you notice any symptoms developing. It is
estimated that of people who develop DT, there is a mortality rate of
5%-15%, so do NOT fuck around. Be sure to stay well hydrated, including
fluids containing electrolytes, and monitor (or have someone monitor) your
vitals (temperature, blood pressure, and pulse).

You may also want to keep some natural anxiolytics on hand, like kava or
valerian, and probably maintain a routine of vitamin and mineral
supplements.

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 16, 2004 at 2:29:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Luke,

It seems my memory or anxiousness
are/where always worse around people and in social situations hence I chose
working with computers and why I drunk so much so that I could be social.

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/avoid.htm

And here’s the main page for the DD Pages:

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/ddhome.htm

Bill

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 16, 2004 at 1:51:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m wondering is it more damaging psychologically to stop
abruptly? I can’t really be sure how much of this is emotional issues
brought up by ibogaine and how much could be physicall alcohol withdrawal.
if anyone has any experience or information related to this i would be
greatfull.

Psychologically, stopping alcohol abruptly can certainly be stressful, so
be sure you have a support network in place before you do it.

You may also want to keep some natural anxiolytics on hand, like kava or
valerian, and probably maintain a routine of vitamin and mineral
supplements.

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] Folkways Bwiti LP on Ebay
Date: April 16, 2004 at 1:37:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is anyone here among the 3 bidders so far for the original LP of
the Folkways Bwiti CD one can order from the Library of Congress?
(2 days to go, current price US $17.50)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4007078824&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Bill

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 16, 2004 at 9:51:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Beatriz,
Thanks for your input. I’m under the impression that some of my problems have to do with relaxation. I’m going to start a regular exercise routine since I’ve been sort of neglecting that area during this process I went for a cycle last night and I seem to feel a good bit more at ease today. I spent most of my twenties drunk. It seems my memory or anxiousness are/where always worse around people and in social situations hence I chose working with computers and why I drunk so much so that I could be social.
Though my job seems so unatural to me and far removed from who I really am after the ibogaine, I get very tense sitting at a desk all day. The environment feels too rigid almost like being a robot. I’ve been gettting a lot of hassle at woke because productivity wasn’t up to scratch. I found I can’t seem to do the same repetitive work since the ibogaine. It’s funny because I could do it when I was drunk. My priority now is to pay off my debts and save my money to get out of this envirnonment and find something fullfilling.
I was doing to cognitave behavioural therpy and thinking of getting rolfing done.

Thanks
Luke

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatriz@pacific.net.hk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:34:20 +0800

Hi Luke,

Since I seem to be the only one now getting your messages I am writing
just because (and although I do not have any experience of quitting
alcohol and no substantial knowledge) I have been learning so much from
reading your emails that the only decent thing I could do was to try and
answer yours even if the value of what I say is limited by ignorance.

From what I have read physical alcohol withdrawal is felt more soon
after you quit – the fact that your memory seemed to be functioning
better when you drank I believe has more to do with being relaxed rather
than with the alcohol itself. It is always difficult to focus and to
remember things when
we are anxious, and it may be even harder when we are sober…

The other thing is you say you’ve had a number of ibogaine sessions and
as a result managed to considerably cut down your consumption first and
then stopped drinking altogether for a whole month. That is amazing.
However, the other emotional issues that surfaced may take more time to
be dealt with –
Are you following up the ibogaine sessions somehow?

Clarity and (or BUT) gentleness

Beatriz

—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:lchristoffersen@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:38 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal

when I had a few drinks.
Over the past 2 years I did several ibogaine sessions and
have
managed to cut my alcohol consumption down from being very heavy to
modorate. Heavy for me was drinking 4 days a week, a lot of spirits
combinded with beer and antidepressants and stimulants. Then over the
space
of about a year to drinking just beer 2 or 3 days a week. Maybe 8 pints
of
beer a night average. Now over the past month no alcohol at all.
I’m wondering is it more damaging psychologically to stop
abruptly? I can’t really be sure how much of this is emotional issues
brought up by ibogaine and how much could be physicall alcohol
withdrawal.
if anyone has any experience or information related to this i would be
greatfull.

Luke

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine Speak-out May 1
Date: April 15, 2004 at 3:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We’re looking for speakers to fill up an hour and twenty minutes
starting 11 am May 1 at the corner of Washington Pl and Mercer street
at a small pre-march rally urging NYU to do something to follow up on
the ’99 Ibo conference.

Dana/cnw

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatriz@pacific.net.hk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 15, 2004 at 12:34:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Luke,

Clarity and (or BUT) gentleness

Beatriz

Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and alcohol withdrawal
Date: April 15, 2004 at 6:37:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everyone,
Has anyone any knowledge about quiting alcohol. I’m just wondering because lately I’ve been feeling a bit rough. I feel quite tense and anxious at time and have difficulty concentrating and remembering things. Paradoxically my memory seemed to be able to function better and when I had a few drinks.
Over the past 2 years I did several ibogaine sessions and have managed to cut my alcohol consumption down from being very heavy to modorate. Heavy for me was drinking 4 days a week, a lot of spirits combinded with beer and antidepressants and stimulants. Then over the space of about a year to drinking just beer 2 or 3 days a week. Maybe 8 pints of beer a night average. Now over the past month no alcohol at all.
I’m wondering is it more damaging psychologically to stop abruptly? I can’t really be sure how much of this is emotional issues brought up by ibogaine and how much could be physicall alcohol withdrawal. if anyone has any experience or information related to this i would be greatfull.

Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: NeekaBhushan@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?
Date: April 14, 2004 at 5:41:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

speaking about lists, How do I remove myself from the list?

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?
Date: April 14, 2004 at 12:46:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe people are on Holidays for Easter. I got a warning last week because my inbox was full. I made space and it filled again quickly. The warning said that I’d be removed without notice if the messages bounced again so I wasn’t sure. I got your reply and one from Callie so it seems to be working.

Hope eveyone had a nice Easter 🙂

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatriz@pacific.net.hk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:01:49 +0800

Luke

I am also not getting any emails but did not receive any warning about
full mailbox. Please let me know if you find out what the problem is.

Thanks Beatriz

—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:lchristoffersen@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 7:03 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?

I don’t seem to be getting any mail from the list. I recieved a message

saying that mails were bouncing due to a full mailbox. It got filled up
again at the weekend.
Luke

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?
Date: April 14, 2004 at 10:36:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luke, Hi! Welcome to the list. I have not been getting many e-mails either. Maybe things are just quiet.
Callie

From: “Beatriz Brasil” <beatriz@pacific.net.hk>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?
Date: April 14, 2004 at 10:01:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Luke

I am also not getting any emails but did not receive any warning about
full mailbox. Please let me know if you find out what the problem is.

Thanks Beatriz

—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:lchristoffersen@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 7:03 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?

I don’t seem to be getting any mail from the list. I recieved a message

saying that mails were bouncing due to a full mailbox. It got filled up
again at the weekend.
Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Luke Christoffersen” <lchristoffersen@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Am I on the list?
Date: April 14, 2004 at 7:03:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t seem to be getting any mail from the list. I recieved a message saying that mails were bouncing due to a full mailbox. It got filled up again at the weekend.
Luke

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,
Date: April 13, 2004 at 2:08:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Scott… Yeah, I think we agree on the main issue that ibogaine should be freely and easily available, (altho I believe that about just about everything.) I guess the radical notion that I’m really trying to advance is that Iboga, and I think probably all entheogens, have their own “consciousness” actually – meaning, they have a “will” or a say in how they develop in the world. I think it’s no accident that the scientific community seems to subconciously avoid these particular plant spirits, even in the face of good evidence. I remember reading that LSD (I know it’s not a plant) was very effective with alcoholism as well, but nothing came of that. Then LSD just turns into a party drug, like ecstacy, which probably has great usefulness too, but we keep missing the point because we’re into dissecting and controlling, instead of listening and following.
I think that other forces in nature “make decisions” about what happens to them in relation to us and it’s not just us humans who rule the world (I know it’s a difficult concept to accept.) That’s why I am such a big proponent of “following Iboga.” I do think folks will hear about it – find ways to get it, use it and determine if it’s really valuable for them. I consider my trips a very great gift, yet I relapse. It’s not magic, altho I do remember feeling that way about it for the first few years myself. I wanted to slip it in everyone’s drink that I knew (especially my mother.) My last trip I was definitely told – “Stop touting ibogaine so much, it’s not for everyone. It’s actually a very extreme thing to do.” That’s only what I was told…
I also think there’s something to the idea that you do have to sort of make a “pilgrimage” to it, sort of like a visionquest. Yeah, it’d be nice to hand it out to all the junkies, too, just to see what really took place, tho. I remember folks in 12 step meetings who were trying hard as hell to get clean and just weren’t able and I thought how they really deserved a shot at Iboga. But maybe you’re supposed to get led to it somehow and then want to try it enough that you’re willing to really put the effort in to get there. This part I feel pretty unclear about.
As far as toxicity tests, you don’t really think that if ibogaine DID enter the drug company scene that those few tests would be considered adequate? I remember just a couple of years ago seeing pictures of beagles being given codeine (how old is that drug) in more toxicity tests. Lovely sight, watching them foam at the mouth and then go into seizures as they mostly died. Scientific communities love to design “new” animal tests to keep themselves in research money. I just don’t think entheogens want that. I sure hope they don’t.
Well, that’s enough out of me… I do appreciate the chance to exchange these ideas with you fellow searchers anyhow.
Best wishes again…Sandy
>From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:38:41 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)

> You make some excellent points–

>I’m NOT a big fan of the pharmaceutical industry and one of the many reasons

>for that is the fact that the whole system is set up with a primary goal of

>making money rather than the health and well being of the patients being the

>primary goal. The fact that ibogaine is a natural substance means that the

>molecule can’t be patented which automatically means the industry will be

>less interested in it than they would a synthetic chemical like 18-MC.

>Obviously if the industries main goal was helping people then they would

>already be extremely interested in ibogaine.

>I am thinking about the cost, but that was not my only concern. I was also

>thinking in terms of quality, availability and legality. Whatever the

>downsides are to the pharmaceutical industry there are some things they do

>better than anyone else, namely manufacturing large quantities of a drug

>with decent quality control for a relatively low cost. Another thing they

>are quite skilled at is lobbying Congress to get what they want.

>Because ibogaine is a natural substance the most a pharmaceutical company

>could do would be to procure a “use” patent which would prohibit other

>companies from advertising ibogaine for that specific use. That would in no

>way prevent smaller companies from selling ibogaine–they just couldn’t

>advertise it for whatever specific use the company had patented. If everyone

>already knew it could be used for that purpose (whatever purpose they

>patented be it smoking cessation, depression, anxiety, etc.) then anyone who

>did their homework would not be bound to buy from that company. I very much

>doubt any company would want to procure a use patent for opiate detoxing

>because (as I said) there just isn’t enough money in it. That means that

>selling ibo for detoxing would at worst be uneffected.

>On the other hand there would be many upsides to to such an arangement that

>I have already mentioned. One that may seem more important to me than to you

>is that it would be removed from schedule I in the U.S. (Unfortunately I

>live in the U.S.) It’s not that I am averse to partaking of substances that

>are scheduled (LOL!) but that the fact that ibogaine is not and never will

>be a recreational drug means it will never be readily available on the black

>market. I can’t even begin to count how many “junkies” I know of down on the

>mission (in San Francisco) who would try ibogaine if they could get it

>readily but who probably won’t work too hard to find it or spend too much

>money on it. These are people whos lives could be changed by ibogaine if it

>were just a little more achievable for them.

>But it’s not just them–what about the midwestern housewife with an anxiety

>problem? She goes to the doctor and he prescribes ibogaine… and she finds

>that it not only helps with her anxiety but also gets her thinking about and

>examining her life (maybe). Maybe she finds that it does more than just

>medicate her anxiety; maybe she finds that it turns her whole life around in

>more ways than can be counted. Lol! maybe she stops voting Republican! I

>agree with Dr. Tom, getting Bwiti out there to as many people as possible

>would have to be a good thing. That housewife would never in a million years

>think of trying an illegal drug but she would have no problem taking a

>prescription drug.

>Or what about the millions of cigarette smokers who are literally dieing for

>something like ibogaine? In the U.S. alone there are more than 400,000

>people killed from tobacco related illness every year.

>I’m also no fan of animal testing but it is my understanding that toxicity

>tests on animals have already been done. Isn’t it a little late to be

>objecting to things that have already happened?

>I agree with your other post–there are lots of good doctors out there, and

>lots of bad ones. We all have a certain amount of responsibility to go out

>and find one of the good ones. My doctor is one of the good ones and he

>would have no problem prescribing ibogaine for me if it were possible. My

>doctor knows I am a smart guy and that I do my homework. We have a

>relationship based on mutual trust and respect. If I go to him and ask for

>something he knows it is because I have done the research and have good

>reason to believe it might help me. A couple of times he has even called me

>up to ask me questions about brain chemistry! He doesn’t have this attitude

>that “I’ve been to medical school and you haven’t so I know everything and

>you know nothing.” He knows that in certain areas of medicine I am more

>knowledgeable than he is, and he doesn’t cop an attitude about it.

>The truth is that there are lots of doctors like him out there. They may be

>in the minority, but they are out there. We just have to find them. And I

>don’t think it is necessary for him to personally try ibogaine for him to

>prescribe it. Maybe he doesn’t feel the need and that is his decision to

>make.

>I also want to agree with Sandy–differences of opinion are what make the

>world go around and it is nice when they can be discussed in a respectful

>manor. I appreciate both of you (and Paul) for disagreeing respectfully and

>I hope I have been respectful as well.

>Regards,

>Scott

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,
Date: April 12, 2004 at 4:49:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good thinking, Ibogaine should be legal and available no matter what it will do good to many people, I make good points and you too,
Start action! You have my blessings.

Van: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]  Verzonden: maandag 12 april 2004 21:39 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You make some excellent points–

I’m NOT a big fan of the pharmaceutical industry and one of the many reasons for that is the fact that the whole system is set up with a primary goal of making money rather than the health and well being of the patients being the primary goal. The fact that ibogaine is a natural substance means that the molecule can’t be patented which automatically means the industry will be less interested in it than they would a synthetic chemical like 18-MC. Obviously if the industries main goal was helping people then they would already be extremely interested in ibogaine.

I am thinking about the cost, but that was not my only concern. I was also thinking in terms of quality, availability and legality. Whatever the downsides are to the pharmaceutical industry there are some things they do better than anyone else, namely manufacturing large quantities of a drug with decent quality control for a relatively low cost. Another thing they are quite skilled at is lobbying Congress to get what they want.

Because ibogaine is a natural substance the most a pharmaceutical company could do would be to procure a “use” patent which would prohibit other companies from advertising ibogaine for that specific use. That would in no way prevent smaller companies from selling ibogaine–they just couldn’t advertise it for whatever specific use the company had patented. If everyone already knew it could be used for that purpose (whatever purpose they patented be it smoking cessation, depression, anxiety, etc.) then anyone who did their homework would not be bound to buy from that company. I very much doubt any company would want to procure a use patent for opiate detoxing because (as I said) there just isn’t enough money in it. That means that selling ibo for detoxing would at worst be uneffected.

On the other hand there would be many upsides to to such an arangement that I have already mentioned. One that may seem more important to me than to you is that it would be removed from schedule I in the U.S. (Unfortunately I live in the U.S.) It’s not that I am averse to partaking of substances that are scheduled (LOL!) but that the fact that ibogaine is not and never will be a recreational drug means it will never be readily available on the black market. I can’t even begin to count how many “junkies” I know of down on the mission (in San Francisco) who would try ibogaine if they could get it readily but who probably won’t work too hard to find it or spend too much money on it. These are people whos lives could be changed by ibogaine if it were just a little more achievable for them.

But it’s not just them–what about the midwestern housewife with an anxiety problem? She goes to the doctor and he prescribes ibogaine… and she finds that it not only helps with her anxiety but also gets her thinking about and examining her life (maybe). Maybe she finds that it does more than just medicate her anxiety; maybe she finds that it turns her whole life around in more ways than can be counted. Lol! maybe she stops voting Republican! I agree with Dr. Tom, getting Bwiti out there to as many people as possible would have to be a good thing. That housewife would never in a million years think of trying an illegal drug but she would have no problem taking a prescription drug.

Or what about the millions of cigarette smokers who are literally dieing for something like ibogaine? In the U.S. alone there are more than 400,000 people killed from tobacco related illness every year.

I’m also no fan of animal testing but it is my understanding that toxicity tests on animals have already been done. Isn’t it a little late to be objecting to things that have already happened?

I agree with your other post–there are lots of good doctors out there, and lots of bad ones. We all have a certain amount of responsibility to go out and find one of the good ones. My doctor is one of the good ones and he would have no problem prescribing ibogaine for me if it were possible. My doctor knows I am a smart guy and that I do my homework. We have a relationship based on mutual trust and respect. If I go to him and ask for something he knows it is because I have done the research and have good reason to believe it might help me. A couple of times he has even called me up to ask me questions about brain chemistry! He doesn’t have this attitude that “I’ve been to medical school and you haven’t so I know everything and you know nothing.” He knows that in certain areas of medicine I am more knowledgeable than he is, and he doesn’t cop an attitude about it.

The truth is that there are lots of doctors like him out there. They may be in the minority, but they are out there. We just have to find them. And I don’t think it is necessary for him to personally try ibogaine for him to prescribe it. Maybe he doesn’t feel the need and that is his decision to make.

I also want to agree with Sandy–differences of opinion are what make the world go around and it is nice when they can be discussed in a respectful manor. I appreciate both of you (and Paul) for disagreeing respectfully and I hope I have been respectful as well.

Regards,
Scott

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/10/04 01:21:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

“If ibogaine were legitimized then an addict could go to their personal doctor and receive a prescription. They could engage in their experience under a doctors supervision in their own home town rather than having to fly to some Caribbean island, and the whole thing would cost a tiny fraction of what it costs now. And if ibogaine were legitimized the entire expense could be paid for by an insurance company rather than being always ‘out of pocket.”

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isn’t like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if you’ll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

And not to forget Doctors are drug dealers and will try to replace the illegal hard drugs with legal hard drugs like benzo’s and anti depressants
And other synthetic opiates.
Which will numb your emotional life for as long as you use them but to come off benzo’s and the others isn’t a joke .they will want you to come and visit each visit will cost…
It is a health care industry .

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they don’t feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer that’s the idea.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/10/04 10:22:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

Scott, I don’t mean all Doctors are not capable of giving Ibogaine treatment , sure there are plenty of fine doctors out there who would try Ibogaine themselves and may
be very caring people who have a great vibe to be around and reflect wisdom and harmony .

Sara.
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]  Verzonden: zaterdag 10 april 2004 9:59 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isn’t like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if you’ll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they don’t feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer that’s the idea.

____________________________________________________  IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,
Date: April 12, 2004 at 4:23:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:39 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You make some excellent points–

I’m also no fan of animal testing but it is my understanding that toxicity tests on animals have already been done. Isn’t it a little late to be objecting to things that have already happened?

Regards,
Scott

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/10/04 01:21:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

If ibogaine were legitimized then an addict could go to their personal doctor and receive a prescription. They could engage in their experience under a doctors supervision in their own home town rather than having to fly to some Caribbean island, and the whole thing would cost a tiny fraction of what it costs now. And if ibogaine were legitimized the entire expense could be paid for by an insurance company rather than being always ‘out of pocket.

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isnt like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if youll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

And not to forget Doctors are drug dealers and will try to replace the illegal hard drugs with legal hard drugs like benzos and anti depressants
And other synthetic opiates.
Which will numb your emotional life for as long as you use them but to come off benzos and the others isnt a joke .they will want you to come and visit each visit will cost
It is a health care industry .

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they dont feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer thats the idea.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/10/04 10:22:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

Scott, I dont mean all Doctors are not capable of giving Ibogaine treatment , sure there are plenty of fine doctors out there who would try Ibogaine themselves and may
be very caring people who have a great vibe to be around and reflect wisdom and harmony .

Sara.
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]  Verzonden: zaterdag 10 april 2004 9:59 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isnt like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if youll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they dont feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer thats the idea.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,
Date: April 12, 2004 at 3:38:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You make some excellent points–

I’m also no fan of animal testing but it is my understanding that toxicity tests on animals have already been done. Isn’t it a little late to be objecting to things that have already happened?

Regards,
Scott

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/10/04 01:21:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isnt like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if youll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they dont feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer thats the idea.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/10/04 10:22:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

Sara.
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]  Verzonden: zaterdag 10 april 2004 9:59 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isnt like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if youll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they dont feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer thats the idea.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: Allan Clear <clear@harmreduction.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 5th National Harm Reduction Conference
Date: April 12, 2004 at 10:03:24 AM EDT
To: HSLotsof@aol.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,
No problem at all. As long as we’re all clear on where we’re all coming from. See you in New Orleans if not before!
Allan

At 11:04 PM 4/11/2004, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/12/04 12:35:18 AM, clear@harmreduction.org writes:

>With regards to the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference, scheduled to
>take place November 11-14, in New Orleans:
>http://www.harmreduction.org/conf2004

>Patrick Kroupa has been asked by HRC to put an ibogaine session together.
>We’re grateful that Howard is advertising the conference and we do
>encourage people to submit abstracts. However it’s not clear to us what
>Howard is doing with donations to the DWF, and he is not doing so on
>behalf of any of us at HRC.

>http://www.ibogaine.org/hrc04.html

>Howard Lotsof is at total liberty to publish anything related to ibogaine
>and the conference, that he wishes. But it has absolutely nothing to do
>with HRC, the ibogaine panel, or the conference itself.
>Essentially there is no accountability to any donation given to the DWF
>on
>behalf of the conference. However feel free to donate to the DWF if you
>wish.

>If you want to help get ibogaine activists, speakers and experts, to the
>conference, you can donate directly to HRC and specify what you want done
>with the money.

>Allan
>
Allan,

Sorry if my post in any way appeared to indicate that it was made on behalf
of the HRC. It was made to announce the requirement to submit abstracts on
ibogaine to the ibogaine list indicating that there is an April 30th deadline on
submissions to the conference. Any funds provided to the Dora Weiner Foundation
would be used, if they can be raised, to allow myself and two other persons
to attend the conference, the number based on acceptance of abstracts and
available funding. This would not be possible without direct funding to DWF as HRC
scholarship information indicated only partial scholarships would be available
and that they do not include transportation or hotels costs. My hope was to
raise the funds and not be a burdon to the HRC. And certainly I would not
dispute your statement that funds can be given directly to the HRC and as you
indicate donors can “specify what” they “want done with the money.” I hope you
have not taken offense at my solicitation and I hope this clarifies what the
funds would be used for by DWF: HRC conference attendance and the preparation
and presentation of a brochure of ibogaine presentations made at the conference
of all authors who would wish to be included. Thanks for your understanding.
If you have any additional concerns I would be glad to respond.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

Allan Clear
Executive Director
Harm Reduction Coalition
22 West 27th Street, 5th Fl
New York, NY 10001
Tel: 212-213-6376
Fax: 212-213-6582
http://www.harmreduction.org

“Working Under Fire: Drug User Health and Justice 2004” 5th National Harm Reduction Conference New Orleans Nov. 11-14 Astor Crowne Plaza

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 5th National Harm Reduction Conference
Date: April 11, 2004 at 11:04:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, clear@harmreduction.org
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/12/04 12:35:18 AM, clear@harmreduction.org writes:

With regards to the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference, scheduled to
take place November 11-14, in New Orleans:
http://www.harmreduction.org/conf2004

Patrick Kroupa has been asked by HRC to put an ibogaine session together.
We’re grateful that Howard is advertising the conference and we do
encourage people to submit abstracts. However it’s not clear to us what
Howard is doing with donations to the DWF, and he is not doing so on
behalf of any of us at HRC.

http://www.ibogaine.org/hrc04.html

Howard Lotsof is at total liberty to publish anything related to ibogaine
and the conference, that he wishes. But it has absolutely nothing to do
with HRC, the ibogaine panel, or the conference itself.
Essentially there is no accountability to any donation given to the DWF
on
behalf of the conference. However feel free to donate to the DWF if you
wish.

If you want to help get ibogaine activists, speakers and experts, to the
conference, you can donate directly to HRC and specify what you want done
with the money.

Allan

Allan,

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: clear@harmreduction.org
Subject: [ibogaine] 5th National Harm Reduction Conference
Date: April 11, 2004 at 9:11:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

With regards to the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference, scheduled to
take place November 11-14, in New Orleans:

http://www.harmreduction.org/conf2004

http://www.ibogaine.org/hrc04.html

Essentially there is no accountability to any donation given to the DWF on
behalf of the conference. However feel free to donate to the DWF if you
wish.

If you want to help get ibogaine activists, speakers and experts, to the
conference, you can donate directly to HRC and specify what you want done
with the money.

Allan

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] book of bwiti photographs
Date: April 11, 2004 at 9:40:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just published. A wonderful selction of photographs of bwiti rites.

Laurent Sazy’s and Vincent Ravalec’s book is titled, Ngenza, Cérémonie de la
connaisance and published by Presses de a Renaissance.

I came across two web pages that referenced the book. Or just do a google
search.

http://www.alapage.com/mx/?id=273601081612074&donnee_appel=GOOGL&tp=F&type=1
&l_isbn=2856169635&devise=&fulltext=Presses+de+la+Renaissance&sv=X_L

http://www.iboga.org/fr/sem2/les_livres.htm

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,
Date: April 10, 2004 at 1:18:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara.
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]  Verzonden: zaterdag 10 april 2004 9:59 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isn’t like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if you’ll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they don’t feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer that’s the idea.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hey Scott,
Date: April 10, 2004 at 3:59:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are only thinking about the money,

Maybe you can think about, Ibogaine isn’t like any other medication.
You would get a Doctor who will give you an X amount of Y without experiencing it before on his own body,

a Doctor earns about 30 dollars per 10 minutes, if not per 5.
how much would that be if you’ll need one to have around for 3 days?

how many rats or monkeys will be used to make sure that it is a good medication,

But first , those Doctors you trust so much are giving vaccinations to babies containing mercury in a toxic level, and they don’t feel shame.

Did they use LSD for alcoholism ? why did they stop ? it did work , right !?

But Drugs money make the world go round. And who is the biggest dealer ? so why would they want you to stop? once a consumer always a consumer that’s the idea.

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…
Date: April 10, 2004 at 1:57:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I couldn’t disagree with you more, Scott – but that’s okay. I hate drug companies and I hate “testing” anything on other sentient beings as tho that is moral, ethical or even truely useful. I like to think that Iboga really is an “instructor” more than anything else and we have to learn to follow it, rather than forcing our crummy egotistical will once again on some treasure that nature is gracious enough to provide for us. We always end up ruining things by doing it OUR way. Let Iboga do the guiding. I personally think if you want it, you get led to it. I certainly did and I ain’t rich by a very long shot. (‘fraid I have it in my head that there’re no accidents either)
Best wishes, tho and happy ibo hunting… Sandy

>From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:31:05 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)

>Paul, Sandy and Sara

>I wish it were that simple that “demand always creates supply.” If that were

>true life would be a whole lot easier and we would all be rich.

>Unfortunately the relationship between supply and demand is more tenuous

>than that. It would be more accurate to say that ‘demand encourages supply’

>or more accurately still, ‘demand demands supply.’ But demand all by itself

>never created anything any more than hoping and wishing will make your

>dreams come true. Life just don’t work that way.

>’Demand’ is a fundamentally psychological concept while ‘supply’ is a

>fundamentally practical concept. There are lots of necessary steps in

>between those two and those steps are pragmatic in nature.

>There are two things (relevant to our discussion) that generally happen when

>a drug becomes illegal–those two things are that the quality goes down and

>the price goes up.

>In a ‘black market’ situation there is little incentive for manufacturers to

>engage in expensive quality control programs. What happens now if we buy

>bunk ibogaine or root bark? What recourse do we have? Look at what happened

>to Brooke… does he have any recourse or is he just out the money? The

>first problem with keeping ibogaine in the ‘shadows’ is that you have to

>know someone to be sure of getting good quality–otherwise you just have to

>take your chances and hope for the best. And if you think that is a problem

>now then just wait until ibogaine becomes more popular. As long as ibogaine

>is kept in the underground that problem will persist and the more ‘demand’

>that arises for it the bigger that problem will become.

>Then there is the issue of cost. As an amateur organic chemist I can tell

>you there is absolutely no reason for it to cost as much as it does. I’ve

>read the technique for converting voacongine into ibogaine and it is just

>very very simple. A full scale professional lab could synthesize it

>virtually from scratch and still sell it for a fraction of the cost it is

>selling for today.

>I agree that demand is increasing and that will encourage the production of

>more supply which will in fact bring the price down but at what cost? If the

>quality and reliability drops along with the price (and it will) is it worth

>it? And even so, the price will never come down as far as it would if

>ibogaine were legitimized.

>If ibogaine were legitimized then an addict could go to their personal

>doctor and receive a prescription. They could engage in their experience

>under a doctors supervision in their own home town rather than having to fly

>to some Caribbean island, and the whole thing would cost a tiny fraction of

>what it costs now. And if ibogaine were legitimized the entire expense could

>be paid for by an insurance company rather than being always ‘out of pocket.

>I very much admire Sara’s willingness to treat people gratis, but it sure

>does look like she is the exception and not the rule. As demand for ibogaine

>increases she will become an even rarer exception.

>I’m aware that there are a good number of heroin and cocaine addicts out

>there who can afford the high cost of ibogaine treatment, but what

>percentage of addicts do you think they are? For the majority of addicts the

>cost is just simply out of reach. They can hope and they can dream and they

>can ‘demand’ but unless they meet someone like Sara that’s all they will be

>doing. Legitimizing ibogaine is the only way to bring ibogaine realistically

>within the reach of the average addict. Keeping ibogaine ‘underground’ means

>that most of the people who need it will not be able to attain it.

>Scott

>——-Original Message——-

>From: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Date: 04/08/04 21:49:32

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

>Yeah! I like what you say Paul. I don’t think Iboga likes the idea of

>torturing animals in “toxicity” tests. Maybe it insists that humans be the

>guinea pigs and that’s fine with me. I know it’s not “very” available yet,

>but just a few years ago I remember it was, like, three people to contact

>regarding getting ahold of ibogaine and only one had a halfway reasonable

>rate. I feel certain that enough folks are going to find it, use it and

>realize what a gift it is, even if it NEVER becomes “legit.” Demand ALWAYS

>creates supply. Doesn’t matter what the laws are…

>Sandy Watson

> >From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>

> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> >Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +1200

> >

> >good idea about the quit smoking – except, damn those big boy business

>bastards you refer too. NO. They can’t have ibo. I say NO to big business.

>We need to keep it within everyones reach. its a gift, not a cash crop.

>Surely an international; network like ours has the potential to get

>something going – even if (heaven forbid) its not in the USA initially. It

>would get there in the end if it worked well enough.

> >

> >Come on peoples, what do u say??

> >

> > —– Original Message —–

> > From: Scott

> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:25 AM

> > Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> >

> > Wow! It sounds like you are doing some amazing work and I salute

>you for it!

> >

> > I was thinking in terms of what it might take to get ibogaine off

>schedule I in the U.S. It seems to me that the most likely way to accomplish

>this would be to get some backing from a big drug company (reads: BIG

>political lobby)

> >

> > And for that to happen they would need to see an opportunity to

>make… yeah, some serious cash.

> >

> > Curing heroin and cocaine addictions is just never going to be

>that profitable–but there might be other more profitable uses that could

>entice them to get onboard.

> >

> > For example: what if it could be shown that small sustained doses

>of ibogaine were more effective in helping people to quit smoking than

>bupropion (Zyban)? That could really get the pharm industry to sit up and

>take notice! With hundreds of millions of cigarette smokers trying to quit

>every year that means $$$$$$. Zyban already has HUGE sales–if a company

>could market ibogaine under a use patent for smoking cessation and advertise

>that it is better than Zyban… That could get those pharm execs salivating!

> >

> > It wouldn’t even need to be alot better than Zyban. It would only

>need to be better enough for them to claim in their advertising that it is

>better.”

> >

> > There would be two major advantages to that scenario–

> >

> > The first would only apply in the U.S. By getting ibogaine off

>schedule I that opens it up for ‘off-label’ uses meaning that doctors could

>prescribe it for things other than smoking cessation.

> >

> > The second would apply worldwide. If ibogaine were being

>manufactured by the big boys to sell to cigarette smokers then that would

>bring the price down… wayyy down. If more is available and on the market

>for whatever reason then the price would drop faster than George Bush

>changes his stories about the evidence for WMDs in Iraq. Since you are

>treating many of your patients out of pocket this would mean you could

>afford to treat many more, OR you could save some money for yourself, which

>you obviously deserve.

> >

> > And smoking cessation is only one possibility–the antidepressant

>market is also quite lucrative.

> >

> > Anyway, it’s just a thought…

> >

> > ——-Original Message——-

> >

> > From: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Date: 04/06/04 23:49:03

> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> >

> > The problem is . when you want to do a research ,you have to have

>funds and people.

> >

> > I have treated some with bulimia , that was a success.

> >

> > Also for depression it works for some people, it worth trying.

> >

> > from the 150 treatments , I have treated more then 70 people

>gratis for all kind of conditions, the last four years.

> >

> > I’m not a institute only an independent researcher who funded

>all of my own research and still.

> >

> > In this way no one is looking from behind my shoulders and trying

>to manipulate the research for the needs

> >

> > Of the pharmaceuticals industry ( as it was done with cannabis and

>marinol).

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > P.S. Indra isn’t an extract of Iboga, Indra is a internet shop who

>ripped off Carl and he hates it that you people always call

> >

> > His stuff Indra . where is the respect ?

> >

> >————————————————————————

> >

> > Van: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]

> > Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2004 2:37

> > Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> > Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> >

> > I’m wondering if anyone knows if ibogaine has been studied

>for other uses? (besides interrupting addictions)

> >

> > I know that uses like ‘antidepressant’ and ‘weight-loss’ are

>much bigger (and thus more lucrative) markets and positive study results in

>these areas could well get the attention of the pharmaceutical co’s in a way

>that no amount of positive results against addiction ever will. There just

>isn’t as much money in addiction treatment.

> >

> > I guess I was just thinking that positive study results in

>those areas could well “open the door” to legalization and thus make

>ibogaine available to addicts via “off-label” prescriptions.

> >

> > Anyone know anything about this?

> >

> > Scott

> >

> > IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

> >

> > ____________________________________________________

> > IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

>Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN

>Premium!

Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeź Security. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Low sustained doses
Date: April 9, 2004 at 9:35:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/9/04 10:32:08 PM, scottmarkwell@toast.net writes:

I have read the manual and I saw some mentions of lower dose therapy but
only very limited. I was really asking about lower sustained doses below
the psychoactive threshold rather than a handful of medium doses. My thought
was that if much of the anti-addictive and anti-depressive effect comes from
the metabolite nor-ibogaine then it should be possible to achieve similar
levels
of nor-ibogaine from smaller daily doses rather than one big dose or a
few medium doses.

I have a few responses. One is whether the theory of noribogaine utility is
a reality? Considering that it may be, Mash anticipates noribogaine patches
for sustained release. Whether low dose sustained therapy will be effective has
not yet been investigated.

Howard

From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Low sustained doses
Date: April 9, 2004 at 6:26:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard,

I have read the manual and I saw some mentions of lower dose therapy but only very limited. I was really asking about lower sustained doses below the psychoactive threshold rather than a handful of medium doses. My thought was that if much of the anti-addictive and anti-depressive effect comes from the metabolite nor-ibogaine then it should be possible to achieve similar levels of nor-ibogaine from smaller daily doses rather than one big dose or a few medium doses.

I understand the value of the “breaking your head open” experience of the Bwiti initiation (been there done that on other substances but its the same idea) but I also understand that drug companies will be reluctant to market a drug that depends on such a treatment modality. I have no doubt that such an experience can be invaluable in the treatment of anything that requires life changes on a major level but I was thinking in terms of other types of disorders.

Such an experience is achievable on numerous different substances–it looks to me like the difference between ibogaine and those other substances is the sustained after effects provided by ibogaine and its metabolites. You can certainly “break your head open” on Ayahuasca, but the difference is that on Ayahuasca when the experience is over you find yourself back in your life, back in your body and back in your addictions. Ayahuasca doesn’t give any additional help.

It is that ‘additional help’ aspect of Iboga that intrigues me. It seems to me that is incredibly valuable in its own right, and that aspect of ibogaine therapy should be achievable through smaller daily doses.

It is that aspect of ibogaine that could be the most important in terms of legitimizing it. To quote Dr. Tom–
“Treatments for Obsessive Compulsive Behavior,
Eating disorders, Anxiety, ADD, ADHD, Diabetes, Clinical Depression,
Autism, Dysmotivation syndromes associated with chronic aging dopers(no
offense, Mark and Dana), and phantom limb pain, all of these would have a
psychological component that I bet low-dosed ibo or it’s metabolite would
benefit, if not “cure”.”

ALL of those are significant disorders (LOL! believe me, I suffer from about half that list…) and it really looks to me like ibogaine is at the very least worthy of research as a treatment for all those things. People like me might very well benefit from ibogaine treatment as much or more than any addict.

And where you say, “50mg – 100mg may produce mild states of psychoactivity in some persons that will interfere with normal functioning requirements.”

That puts it in the same catagory as many antidepressants that are commonly sold today. Wellbutrin (for example) is a life changing drug for some people while others find they just can’t function under its influence. I wouldn’t expect ibogaine to be any different. I bet it would work wonders for some people while others would be unable to tolerate it. That’s to be expected.

Thanks,
Scott

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/08/04 18:20:55
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Low sustained doses

In a message dated 4/9/04 12:48:10 AM, scottmarkwell@toast.net writes:

>I’m curious if anyone has knowledge of or experience with the use of
>ibogaine in lower sustained doses (10 mg. to 100 mg/day for a period of
>days or weeks).

>I’m looking for both experiential data as well as any scientific data that
>anyone knows about–for example, does anyone know if 100 mg/day for ten
>days raises levels of nor-ibogaine more, less, or the same as 1 gram all at
>once?

Low dose regimens are common to different providers and you can find such
references in the manual for ibogaine therapy
<http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html probably in the discussion section.

I doubt there are published scientific data on low dose therapy. Mash is
probably the only provider who could produce such data and I do not believe she
uses low dose therapy. But, Patrick could probably comment on that matter.

10mg – 25mg doses provide acceptable antianxiety effects. 50mg – 100mg may
produce mild states of psychoactivity in some persons that will interfere with
normal functioning requirements.

Howard

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…
Date: April 9, 2004 at 5:31:05 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul, Sandy and Sara

I wish it were that simple that “demand always creates supply.” If that were true life would be a whole lot easier and we would all be rich. Unfortunately the relationship between supply and demand is more tenuous than that. It would be more accurate to say that ‘demand encourages supply’ or more accurately still, ‘demand demands supply.’ But demand all by itself never created anything any more than hoping and wishing will make your dreams come true. Life just don’t work that way.

‘Demand’ is a fundamentally psychological concept while ‘supply’ is a fundamentally practical concept. There are lots of necessary steps in between those two and those steps are pragmatic in nature.

There are two things (relevant to our discussion) that generally happen when a drug becomes illegal–those two things are that the quality goes down and the price goes up.

In a ‘black market’ situation there is little incentive for manufacturers to engage in expensive quality control programs. What happens now if we buy bunk ibogaine or root bark? What recourse do we have? Look at what happened to Brooke… does he have any recourse or is he just out the money? The first problem with keeping ibogaine in the ‘shadows’ is that you have to know someone to be sure of getting good quality–otherwise you just have to take your chances and hope for the best. And if you think that is a problem now then just wait until ibogaine becomes more popular. As long as ibogaine is kept in the underground that problem will persist and the more ‘demand’ that arises for it the bigger that problem will become.

Then there is the issue of cost. As an amateur organic chemist I can tell you there is absolutely no reason for it to cost as much as it does. I’ve read the technique for converting voacongine into ibogaine and it is just very very simple. A full scale professional lab could synthesize it virtually from scratch and still sell it for a fraction of the cost it is selling for today.

I agree that demand is increasing and that will encourage the production of more supply which will in fact bring the price down but at what cost? If the quality and reliability drops along with the price (and it will) is it worth it? And even so, the price will never come down as far as it would if ibogaine were legitimized.

I very much admire Sara’s willingness to treat people gratis, but it sure does look like she is the exception and not the rule. As demand for ibogaine increases she will become an even rarer exception.

I’m aware that there are a good number of heroin and cocaine addicts out there who can afford the high cost of ibogaine treatment, but what percentage of addicts do you think they are? For the majority of addicts the cost is just simply out of reach. They can hope and they can dream and they can ‘demand’ but unless they meet someone like Sara that’s all they will be doing. Legitimizing ibogaine is the only way to bring ibogaine realistically within the reach of the average addict. Keeping ibogaine ‘underground’ means that most of the people who need it will not be able to attain it.

Scott

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/08/04 21:49:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +1200

>good idea about the quit smoking – except, damn those big boy business bastards you refer too. NO. They can’t have ibo. I say NO to big business. We need to keep it within everyones reach. its a gift, not a cash crop. Surely an international; network like ours has the potential to get something going – even if (heaven forbid) its not in the USA initially. It would get there in the end if it worked well enough.

>Come on peoples, what do u say??

> —– Original Message —–

> From: Scott

> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:25 AM

> Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> Wow! It sounds like you are doing some amazing work and I salute you for it!

> I was thinking in terms of what it might take to get ibogaine off schedule I in the U.S. It seems to me that the most likely way to accomplish this would be to get some backing from a big drug company (reads: BIG political lobby)

> And for that to happen they would need to see an opportunity to make… yeah, some serious cash.

> Curing heroin and cocaine addictions is just never going to be that profitable–but there might be other more profitable uses that could entice them to get onboard.

> For example: what if it could be shown that small sustained doses of ibogaine were more effective in helping people to quit smoking than bupropion (Zyban)? That could really get the pharm industry to sit up and take notice! With hundreds of millions of cigarette smokers trying to quit every year that means $$$$$$. Zyban already has HUGE sales–if a company could market ibogaine under a use patent for smoking cessation and advertise that it is better than Zyban… That could get those pharm execs salivating!

> It wouldn’t even need to be alot better than Zyban. It would only need to be better enough for them to claim in their advertising that it is “better.”

> There would be two major advantages to that scenario–

> The first would only apply in the U.S. By getting ibogaine off schedule I that opens it up for ‘off-label’ uses meaning that doctors could prescribe it for things other than smoking cessation.

> The second would apply worldwide. If ibogaine were being manufactured by the big boys to sell to cigarette smokers then that would bring the price down… wayyy down. If more is available and on the market for whatever reason then the price would drop faster than George Bush changes his stories about the evidence for WMDs in Iraq. Since you are treating many of your patients out of pocket this would mean you could afford to treat many more, OR you could save some money for yourself, which you obviously deserve.

> And smoking cessation is only one possibility–the antidepressant market is also quite lucrative.

> Anyway, it’s just a thought…

> ——-Original Message——-

> From: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Date: 04/06/04 23:49:03

> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> The problem is . when you want to do a research ,you have to have funds and people.

> I have treated some with bulimia , that was a success.

> Also for depression it works for some people, it worth trying.

> from the 150 treatments , I have treated more then 70 people gratis for all kind of conditions, the last four years.

> I’m not a institute only an independent researcher who funded all of my own research and still.

> In this way no one is looking from behind my shoulders and trying to manipulate the research for the needs

> Of the pharmaceuticals industry ( as it was done with cannabis and marinol).

> Regards,

> P.S. Indra isn’t an extract of Iboga, Indra is a internet shop who ripped off Carl and he hates it that you people always call

> His stuff Indra . where is the respect ?

>————————————————————————

> Van: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]

> Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2004 2:37

> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> I’m wondering if anyone knows if ibogaine has been studied for other uses? (besides interrupting addictions)

> I know that uses like ‘antidepressant’ and ‘weight-loss’ are much bigger (and thus more lucrative) markets and positive study results in these areas could well get the attention of the pharmaceutical co’s in a way that no amount of positive results against addiction ever will. There just isn’t as much money in addiction treatment.

> I guess I was just thinking that positive study results in those areas could well “open the door” to legalization and thus make ibogaine available to addicts via “off-label” prescriptions.

> Anyone know anything about this?

> Scott

> IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

> ____________________________________________________

> IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium!
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…
Date: April 9, 2004 at 1:10:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandy I agree with you. The reputation of the ibogaine detox. in comparison with other Detox . methods will create more demand and that is only a matter of time.
People are getting more knowledgeable by using the computer and that can’t be stopped.

Sara

Van: booker w [mailto:swbooker@hotmail.com]  Verzonden: vrijdag 9 april 2004 6:44 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

Yeah! I like what you say Paul. I don’t think Iboga likes the idea of torturing animals in “toxicity” tests. Maybe it insists that humans be the guinea pigs and that’s fine with me. I know it’s not “very” available yet, but just a few years ago I remember it was, like, three people to contact regarding getting ahold of ibogaine and only one had a halfway reasonable rate. I feel certain that enough folks are going to find it, use it and realize what a gift it is, even if it NEVER becomes “legit.”   Demand ALWAYS creates supply.  Doesn’t matter what the laws are…
Sandy Watson  >From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +1200
>
>good idea about the quit smoking – except, damn those big boy business bastards you refer too. NO. They can’t have ibo. I say NO to big business.  We need to keep it within everyones reach.  its a gift, not a cash crop. Surely an international; network like ours has the potential to get something going – even if (heaven forbid) its not in the USA initially. It would get there in the end if it worked well enough.
>
>Come on peoples, what do u say??
>
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: Scott
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:25 AM
>   Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…
>
>
>         Wow! It sounds like you are doing some amazing work and I salute you for it!
>
>         I was thinking in terms of what it might take to get ibogaine off schedule I in the U.S. It seems to me that the most likely way to accomplish this would be to get some backing from a big drug company (reads: BIG political lobby)
>
>         And for that to happen they would need to see an opportunity to make… yeah, some serious cash.
>
>         Curing heroin and cocaine addictions is just never going to be that profitable–but there might be other more profitable uses that could entice them to get onboard.
>
>         For example: what if it could be shown that small sustained doses of ibogaine were more effective in helping people to quit smoking than bupropion (Zyban)?  That could really get the pharm industry to sit up and take notice! With hundreds of millions of cigarette smokers trying to quit every year that means $$$$$$. Zyban already has HUGE sales–if a company could market ibogaine under a use patent for smoking cessation and advertise that it is better than Zyban… That could get those pharm execs salivating!
>
>         It wouldn’t even need to be alot better than Zyban. It would only need to be better enough for them to claim in their advertising that it is “better.”
>
>         There would be two major advantages to that scenario–
>
>         The first would only apply in the U.S. By getting ibogaine off schedule I that opens it up for ‘off-label’ uses meaning that doctors could prescribe it for things other than smoking cessation.
>
>         The second would apply worldwide. If ibogaine were being manufactured by the big boys to sell to cigarette smokers then that would bring the price down… wayyy down. If more is available and on the market for whatever reason then the price would drop faster than George Bush changes his stories about the evidence for WMDs in Iraq. Since you are treating many of your patients out of pocket this would mean you could afford to treat many more, OR you could save some money for yourself, which you obviously deserve.
>
>         And smoking cessation is only one possibility–the antidepressant market is also quite lucrative.
>
>         Anyway, it’s just a thought…
>
>
>         ——-Original Message——-
>
>         From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>         Date: 04/06/04 23:49:03
>         To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>         Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…
>
>         The problem is . when you want to do a research ,you have to have funds and people.
>
>         I have treated some with bulimia , that was a success.
>
>         Also for depression it works for some people, it worth trying.
>
>          from the 150 treatments , I have treated more then 70 people gratis for all kind of conditions, the last four years.
>
>          I’m not a institute only an independent researcher  who funded all of my own research and still.
>
>         In this way no one is looking from behind my shoulders and trying to manipulate the research for the needs
>
>         Of the pharmaceuticals industry ( as it was done with cannabis and marinol).
>
>         Regards,
>
>
>
>         P.S. Indra isn’t an extract of Iboga, Indra is a internet shop who ripped off Carl and he hates it that you people always call
>
>         His stuff Indra . where is the respect ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>————————————————————————
>
>         Van: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]
>         Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2004 2:37
>         Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>         Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Other uses…
>
>
>
>               I’m wondering if anyone knows if ibogaine has been studied for other uses? (besides interrupting addictions)
>
>
>
>               I know that uses like ‘antidepressant’ and ‘weight-loss’ are much bigger (and thus more lucrative) markets and positive study results in these areas could well get the attention of the pharmaceutical co’s in a way that no amount of positive results against addiction ever will. There just isn’t as much money in addiction treatment.
>
>
>
>               I guess I was just thinking that positive study results in those areas could well “open the door” to legalization and thus make ibogaine available to addicts via “off-label” prescriptions.
>
>
>
>               Anyone know anything about this?
>
>
>
>               Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>           IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here
>
>
>
>
>   ____________________________________________________
>     IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium!
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Information from the National Center for Complementary and Altern ative Medicine
Date: April 9, 2004 at 11:57:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/9/04 10:18:37 AM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

<< > —–Original Message—–

From: .NCCAM-INFO [mailto:nccam-info@mail.nih.gov]

Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004, 1:47 PM

To: ‘deartheo@ziplip.com’ <deartheo@ziplip.com>

Subject: Information from the National Center for Complementary and
Alternative Medicine

Dear Mr. Bursey:

Thank you for your e-mail to Stephen E. Straus, M.D., Director of the

National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). Your

letter has been forwarded to my attention for reply.

Dr. Straus has asked me to let you know that he is unable to accept your

invitation. His calendar is extremely full, and he is unable to attend any

additional engagements this year.

NCCAM is currently developing its 5-year strategic plan for 2005-2009. It is

important to us that members of the public, health care professionals,

researchers, and others who have an interest in research in complementary

and alternative medicine participate in this process. You may share your

ideas on iboga treatment or on NCCAM’s future investments in research,

integration, training, and outreach by visiting the “About NCCAM” page on

our Web site at http://nccam.nih.gov/about. We will release the final

strategic plan in January 2005.

I wish you the best of luck with the completion of your treatment. Thank you

for your interest in NCCAM.

We would appreciate your feedback on this e-mail response by completing a

brief survey. The survey should take less than 3 minutes to complete, and

your response will be kept confidential and anonymous. To participate,

please go to: http://www.nccaminfo.org/surveys/email/email_1.asp

Your feedback will ensure that we are meeting your needs. Thank you for your

time.

Sincerely yours,

Terry Evans

NCCAM Clearinghouse

P.O. Box 7923

Gaithersburg, Maryland 20898-7923

Toll-free in the U.S.: 1-888-644-6226

International: 301-519-3153

TTY (for deaf and hard-of-hearing callers):

1-866-464-3615

Fax: 1-866-464-3616

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine is dedicated

to exploring complementary and alternative healing practices in the context

of rigorous science, training complementary and alternative medicine

researchers, and disseminating authoritative information to the public and

professionals. >>

Dear Jason and other list members,

The key to understanding Dr. Straus’s response is that the federal agencies
involved with addiction treatment will not send observers to ibogaine therapies
because every doctor who has observed ibogaine treatment recognizes its
advantages and wants to use ibogaine. One way to stop this is by not authorizing
government researchers to observe ibogaine treatments. Hopefully, the Iboga
Therapy House will have more luck with the Canadian government than we have with
ours in the US.

Howard

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Information from the National Center for Complementary and Altern ative Medicine
Date: April 9, 2004 at 11:11:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,
Thank you for your kind words, I guess my mail has been fucked because I sent you a copy on the 3rd of this month.

—–Original Message—–
From: Donald A.B. Lindberg MD [mailto:lindberg@nlm.nih.gov]
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004, 10:45 AM
To: Jason Bursey <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation

Congratulations! This sounds like a major personal accomplishment.
Stay well,
DL

Jason Bursey
5827 Timbercrest Dr.
Arlington, TX 76017

April 2, 2004

Director, National Library of Medicine Donald A.B. Lindberg MD
8600 Rockville Pike
Bldg 38, Rm 2E-17
Bethesda, MD 20894-6075

Dear Director Lindberg:

Hello. My name is Jason Bursey. I live in Arlington, TX
(Dallas/Ft.Worth). First off, let me thank you for your amazing work, no
doubt the world is a much better place for having you in it. I will be
completing my iboga treatment this April at Marc Emerys
ibogatherapyhouse.org for a 263 ml per day methadone physical addiction (a
20 year heroin addict seeking methadone treatment will start at 30 ml per
day).

I wanted to invite you to come and observe this miracle and see for
yourself the very real potential of iboga. Iboga has a very interesting
history and has enormous harm reduction potential. The date to go to
Vancouver is April 19th. Either way, thank you for your work and I hope I
will be stable enough in the next couple of years to work with you on a
more personal level. Take care.

Sincerely,

Jason Bursey

(This same invitation was sent to most at DHHS, specifically Dr. V. Apparently I havent been writing enough for them to know my contact info by memory yet
something Ill remedy)
Dear Cheryl,

Yes, you have the correct address. Im looking forward to a reply. Take care.

Jason Bursey
—–Original Message—–
From: Kassed Cheryl A. (NIH/NIDA) [mailto:kassedc@mail.nih.gov]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004, 10:19 AM
To: ‘deartheo@ziplip.com’ <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: response from Dr. Volkow

Dear Jason,

Dr. Volkow has misplaced your email address and asked me to help her find
it. If you are the individual from Arlington who wrote regarding ibogaine,
please respond to this message so that I can send you her response.

Thank you!

Regards,

Cheryl

Cheryl A. Kassed, Ph.D., M.S.P.H.
Senior Science Writer/Analyst
NIDA Communications Support Contractor
Office: (301) 594-6317
Fax: (301) 443-6277
Email: kassedc@mail.nih.gov
————————————————————————————————————
Also, I sent you this e-mail about a 30 min conversation I had with Bill Zedler (R). http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist96 (long bio)
http://capwiz.com/norml2/bio/?id=129707&lvl=L&chamber=H (short bio)
Howard,
I just got off the phone with Bill Zedler, we had about a 30 minute discussion about iboga. It appears the content of the letters didn’t set in, but he seemed to get a glimpse of the potential during our phone call and offered to set up an appointment with Congressperson Joe Barton and Kay Bailey Hutch (both R) to speak with them about the issue.
He explained his influence was limited with being at the state level. I told him it would be a shame to put limits on his influence and the fact that he knows who he knows and now knows about iboga and how a solution can get lost in the system is in and of itself a good thing. He has assured me he will educate himself by looking online and he seemed curious how he could help and assist and has said not to hesitate to call on his assistance in the future. I told him I’m looking forward to working with him on a more personal level. If GOP was smart they’d sink their teeth into this…
It would be great for you to be there with me either in person or by phone during a discussion with congress people. You, of course, could fill in the details of so much in regards to the frustration with getting approval.
I hope putting it on the US governments radar screen more doesn’t make it illegal in more countries. I hope some good can come out of it.
Take care,
Jason Bursey

..so yes, I am excited, but a little concerned about the strapped to a rocket description of ibogaine as opposed to iboga
.but I am very happy about the opportunity, but as much as I want to nuke away whats left of it, I, at the same time, dont want to bite off more then I can chew. Im likely going to look into some mushrooms after dosing and see if that helps with the exhaustion if the ibogaine dose hasnt already in and of itself taken care of that completely. Not sure what date Ill dose on, but it will likely be around 4/20 or 4/21 or so.
Ill look around for that email to Stephen E. Straus, M.D. Cpu crashed not to long ago and to save space on e-mail I kept copy on HD, but I usually keep a back up cd, Ill check.

-J

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004, 6:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Information from the National Center for
Complementary and Altern ative Medicine

Jason,

You probably have posted it but, could you repost your email to Stephen E.
Straus, M.D., so we can see exactly what Terry Evan’s email is in response to?
Thanks on that and once again thank you for taking the time to write these
emails.

Howard

In a message dated 4/9/04 10:18:37 AM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

<< —-Original Message—–

From: .NCCAM-INFO [mailto:nccam-info@mail.nih.gov]

Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004, 1:47 PM

To: ‘deartheo@ziplip.com’ <deartheo@ziplip.com>

Subject: Information from the National Center for Complementary and
Alternative Medicine

Dear Mr. Bursey:

Thank you for your e-mail to Stephen E. Straus, M.D., Director of the

National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). Your

letter has been forwarded to my attention for reply.

Dr. Straus has asked me to let you know that he is unable to accept your

invitation. His calendar is extremely full, and he is unable to attend any

additional engagements this year.

NCCAM is currently developing its 5-year strategic plan for 2005-2009. It is

important to us that members of the public, health care professionals,

researchers, and others who have an interest in research in complementary

and alternative medicine participate in this process. You may share your

ideas on iboga treatment or on NCCAM’s future investments in research,

integration, training, and outreach by visiting the “About NCCAM” page on

our Web site at http://nccam.nih.gov/about. We will release the final

strategic plan in January 2005.

I wish you the best of luck with the completion of your treatment. Thank you

for your interest in NCCAM.

We would appreciate your feedback on this e-mail response by completing a

brief survey. The survey should take less than 3 minutes to complete, and

your response will be kept confidential and anonymous. To participate,

please go to: http://www.nccaminfo.org/surveys/email/email_1.asp

Your feedback will ensure that we are meeting your needs. Thank you for your

time.

Sincerely yours,

Terry Evans

NCCAM Clearinghouse

P.O. Box 7923

Gaithersburg, Maryland 20898-7923

Toll-free in the U.S.: 1-888-644-6226

International: 301-519-3153

TTY (for deaf and hard-of-hearing callers):

1-866-464-3615

Fax: 1-866-464-3616

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine is dedicated

to exploring complementary and alternative healing practices in the context

of rigorous science, training complementary and alternative medicine

researchers, and disseminating authoritative information to the public and

professionals. >>

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Information from the National Center for Complementary and Altern ative Medicine
Date: April 9, 2004 at 9:10:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason,

Howard

In a message dated 4/9/04 10:18:37 AM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

<< —-Original Message—–

From: .NCCAM-INFO [mailto:nccam-info@mail.nih.gov]

Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004, 1:47 PM

To: ‘deartheo@ziplip.com’ <deartheo@ziplip.com>

Subject: Information from the National Center for Complementary and
Alternative Medicine

Dear Mr. Bursey:

Thank you for your e-mail to Stephen E. Straus, M.D., Director of the

National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). Your

letter has been forwarded to my attention for reply.

Dr. Straus has asked me to let you know that he is unable to accept your

invitation. His calendar is extremely full, and he is unable to attend any

additional engagements this year.

NCCAM is currently developing its 5-year strategic plan for 2005-2009. It is

important to us that members of the public, health care professionals,

researchers, and others who have an interest in research in complementary

and alternative medicine participate in this process. You may share your

ideas on iboga treatment or on NCCAM’s future investments in research,

integration, training, and outreach by visiting the “About NCCAM” page on

our Web site at http://nccam.nih.gov/about. We will release the final

strategic plan in January 2005.

I wish you the best of luck with the completion of your treatment. Thank you

for your interest in NCCAM.

We would appreciate your feedback on this e-mail response by completing a

brief survey. The survey should take less than 3 minutes to complete, and

your response will be kept confidential and anonymous. To participate,

please go to: http://www.nccaminfo.org/surveys/email/email_1.asp

Your feedback will ensure that we are meeting your needs. Thank you for your

time.

Sincerely yours,

Terry Evans

NCCAM Clearinghouse

P.O. Box 7923

Gaithersburg, Maryland 20898-7923

Toll-free in the U.S.: 1-888-644-6226

International: 301-519-3153

TTY (for deaf and hard-of-hearing callers):

1-866-464-3615

Fax: 1-866-464-3616

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine is dedicated

to exploring complementary and alternative healing practices in the context

of rigorous science, training complementary and alternative medicine

researchers, and disseminating authoritative information to the public and

professionals. >>

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Information from the National Center for Complementary and Altern ative Medicine
Date: April 9, 2004 at 6:16:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: .NCCAM-INFO [mailto:nccam-info@mail.nih.gov]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004, 1:47 PM
To: ‘deartheo@ziplip.com’ <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Information from the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

Dear Mr. Bursey:

Thank you for your e-mail to Stephen E. Straus, M.D., Director of the
National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). Your
letter has been forwarded to my attention for reply.

Dr. Straus has asked me to let you know that he is unable to accept your
invitation. His calendar is extremely full, and he is unable to attend any
additional engagements this year.

NCCAM is currently developing its 5-year strategic plan for 2005-2009. It is
important to us that members of the public, health care professionals,
researchers, and others who have an interest in research in complementary
and alternative medicine participate in this process. You may share your
ideas on iboga treatment or on NCCAM’s future investments in research,
integration, training, and outreach by visiting the “About NCCAM” page on
our Web site at http://nccam.nih.gov/about. We will release the final
strategic plan in January 2005.

I wish you the best of luck with the completion of your treatment. Thank you
for your interest in NCCAM.

We would appreciate your feedback on this e-mail response by completing a
brief survey. The survey should take less than 3 minutes to complete, and
your response will be kept confidential and anonymous. To participate,
please go to: http://www.nccaminfo.org/surveys/email/email_1.asp

Your feedback will ensure that we are meeting your needs. Thank you for your
time.

Sincerely yours,

Terry Evans
NCCAM Clearinghouse
P.O. Box 7923
Gaithersburg, Maryland 20898-7923
Toll-free in the U.S.: 1-888-644-6226
International: 301-519-3153
TTY (for deaf and hard-of-hearing callers):
1-866-464-3615
Fax: 1-866-464-3616
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine is dedicated
to exploring complementary and alternative healing practices in the context
of rigorous science, training complementary and alternative medicine
researchers, and disseminating authoritative information to the public and
professionals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…
Date: April 9, 2004 at 12:43:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…

>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +1200

>Come on peoples, what do u say??

> —– Original Message —–

> From: Scott

> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:25 AM

> Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> Wow! It sounds like you are doing some amazing work and I salute you for it!

> And for that to happen they would need to see an opportunity to make… yeah, some serious cash.

> Curing heroin and cocaine addictions is just never going to be that profitable–but there might be other more profitable uses that could entice them to get onboard.

> It wouldn’t even need to be alot better than Zyban. It would only need to be better enough for them to claim in their advertising that it is “better.”

> There would be two major advantages to that scenario–

> The first would only apply in the U.S. By getting ibogaine off schedule I that opens it up for ‘off-label’ uses meaning that doctors could prescribe it for things other than smoking cessation.

> And smoking cessation is only one possibility–the antidepressant market is also quite lucrative.

> Anyway, it’s just a thought…

> ——-Original Message——-

> From: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Date: 04/06/04 23:49:03

> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> The problem is . when you want to do a research ,you have to have funds and people.

> I have treated some with bulimia , that was a success.

> Also for depression it works for some people, it worth trying.

> from the 150 treatments , I have treated more then 70 people gratis for all kind of conditions, the last four years.

> I’m not a institute only an independent researcher who funded all of my own research and still.

> In this way no one is looking from behind my shoulders and trying to manipulate the research for the needs

> Of the pharmaceuticals industry ( as it was done with cannabis and marinol).

> Regards,

> P.S. Indra isn’t an extract of Iboga, Indra is a internet shop who ripped off Carl and he hates it that you people always call

> His stuff Indra . where is the respect ?

>————————————————————————

> Van: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]

> Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2004 2:37

> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Other uses…

> I’m wondering if anyone knows if ibogaine has been studied for other uses? (besides interrupting addictions)

> I guess I was just thinking that positive study results in those areas could well “open the door” to legalization and thus make ibogaine available to addicts via “off-label” prescriptions.

> Anyone know anything about this?

> Scott

> IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

> ____________________________________________________

> IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…
Date: April 8, 2004 at 10:39:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with Scott’s “just a thought”. Getting an ally among the smaller
of the greedy drug corporations would be our only way to get Ibo out of
the shadows and into the public spotlight. The profit motive drives our
world, and we’ve got the road kill to prove it. At least getting Ibo or
18-MC into a commercial product would pressure it into legality as a
resource.

I would be interested in how Bwiti handled herself in large numbers of the
population, even in low doses. If she got a finger on that steering
wheel, so to speak, of what drives the world, it would be, er,…at least
more “vivid”.

Applications in medicine that would interest the drug lizards would be way
larger than anti-nicotine. Treatments for Obsessive Compulsive Behavior,
Eating disorders, Anxiety, ADD, ADHD, Diabetes, Clinical Depression,
Autism, Dysmotivation syndromes associated with chronic aging dopers(no
offense, Mark and Dana), and phantom limb pain, all of these would have a
psychological component that I bet low-dosed ibo or it’s metabolite would
benefit, if not “cure”.

Chalk up the money, politics, and power that treating these disorders
involve and our ambitious new ally could see lots of gold at the end of
that rainbow. Scott’s mention of secondary benefits is right on too.
Without some in to the market economy, Ibo will never get out of hidden
cult status, which would be such a loss!

Kudos to your new tours, Howard, they are great!

Dr. Tom

From: Scott
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

Wow! It sounds like you are doing some amazing work and I salute
you for it!

I was thinking in terms of what it might take to get ibogaine
off schedule I in the U.S. It seems to me that the most likely
way to accomplish this would be to get some backing from a big
drug company (reads: BIG political lobby)

And for that to happen they would need to see an opportunity to
make… yeah, some serious cash.

Curing heroin and cocaine addictions is just never going to be
that profitable–but there might be other more profitable uses
that could entice them to get onboard.

For example: what if it could be shown that small sustained
doses of ibogaine were more effective in helping people to quit
smoking than bupropion (Zyban)? That could really get the pharm
industry to sit up and take notice! With hundreds of millions of
cigarette smokers trying to quit every year that means $$$$$$.
Zyban already has HUGE sales–if a company could market ibogaine
under a use patent for smoking cessation and advertise that it
is better than Zyban… That could get those pharm execs
salivating!

It wouldn’t even need to be alot better than Zyban. It would
only need to be better enough for them to claim in their
advertising that it is “better.”

There would be two major advantages to that scenario–

The first would only apply in the U.S. By getting ibogaine off
schedule I that opens it up for ‘off-label’ uses meaning that
doctors could prescribe it for things other than smoking
cessation.

The second would apply worldwide. If ibogaine were being
manufactured by the big boys to sell to cigarette smokers then
that would bring the price down… wayyy down. If more is
available and on the market for whatever reason then the price
would drop faster than George Bush changes his stories about the
evidence for WMDs in Iraq. Since you are treating many of your
patients out of pocket this would mean you could afford to treat
many more, OR you could save some money for yourself, which you
obviously deserve.

And smoking cessation is only one possibility–the
antidepressant market is also quite lucrative.

Anyway, it’s just a thought…

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Low sustained doses
Date: April 8, 2004 at 9:13:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/9/04 12:48:10 AM, scottmarkwell@toast.net writes:

I’m curious if anyone has knowledge of or experience with the use of
ibogaine in lower sustained doses (10 mg. to 100 mg/day for a period of
days or weeks).

I’m looking for both experiential data as well as any scientific data that
anyone knows about–for example, does anyone know if 100 mg/day for ten
days raises levels of nor-ibogaine more, less, or the same as 1 gram all at
once?

Low dose regimens are common to different providers and you can find such
references in the manual for ibogaine therapy
<http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html probably in the discussion section.

10mg – 25mg doses provide acceptable antianxiety effects. 50mg – 100mg may
produce mild states of psychoactivity in some persons that will interfere with
normal functioning requirements.

Howard

From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Low sustained doses
Date: April 8, 2004 at 8:41:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m curious if anyone has knowledge of or experience with the use of ibogaine in lower sustained doses (10 mg. to 100 mg/day for a period of days or weeks).

I’m looking for both experiential data as well as any scientific data that anyone knows about–for example, does anyone know if 100 mg/day for ten days raises levels of nor-ibogaine more, less, or the same as 1 gram all at once?

Thanks,
Scott

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] new tours for old
Date: April 8, 2004 at 6:38:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A number of new ibogaine tours have been placed on the ibogaine dossier. One
that may be of particular interest is a powerpoint presentation of the
comparative development of ibogaine, methadone and buprenorphine. Another is Rick
Doblin’s presentation on the non=profit development of ibogaine. There are
others as well. If you don’t have powerpoint you can link to a free powerpoint
reader from the tours page.

Check out

http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/whatsnew.html

Also catch the flash animation of one perspective of ibogaine dreamlike
visualizaiton.

Enjoy.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] call for ibogaine presentations
Date: April 8, 2004 at 5:01:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/8/04 6:59:52 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

Please visit our call for abstracts web page

http://www.ibogaine.org/hrc04.html

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] call for ibogaine presentations
Date: April 8, 2004 at 2:57:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Call for Abstracts

The 5th National Harm Reduction Conference (HRC) gives ibogaine providers,
researchers, patients and advocates the opportunity to present their ideas and
meet at this important conference. There is the possibility of more than one
ibogaine workshop, plenary or round table taking place at the HRC’s New Orleans
conference. To make this a reality abstracts on ibogaine-related topics must
be submitted to the Conference Coordinator along with an official Abstract
Application Form. There is an April 30th deadline for abstracts.

Please visit our call for abstracts web page http://www.ibogaine.org/
hrc04.html

This is an important opportunity and I would appreciate the cooperation of
all who can present at the 5th National Harm Reduction Conference. A good place
to present and a good place to meet.

Howard

From: <delysid@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Personal accounts of treatment centers
Date: April 8, 2004 at 2:18:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>,<ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <winstonford@mac.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Folks,

Even though it seems currently out of reach from a financial standpoint for me, I would also be extremely interested in any such accounts — I’d like to learn as much as I can about the various options for treatment while I’m saving up the money, ya know?

Anyhooo, if y’all wouldn’t mind cc-ing delysid@adelphia.net on any accounts not posted to the entire list, I would be very grateful. Any useful information about these treatment centers would be gratefully welcomed, and unlike Winston, I don’t necessarily insist that the info be first hand (though that would certainly be preferable.) In any case, take care, and I hope that this note finds all of you happy & well… 🙂

Regards,
Erik

From: Winston Ford <winstonford@mac.com>
Date: 2004/04/08 Thu AM 11:27:34 EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Personal accounts of treatment centers

Hello,

For the sake of a dear friend in need, I am attempting to gather info
towards making a constructive choice for Ibogaine treatment. The
friend has a self destructive cocaine, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine
addiction. I am interested in hearing personal accounts from patients
who have been treated at one of the following centers:

– Mash’s in St. Kitts
– Taub’s Off coast of Florida
– Vancouver

These accounts are to be included in a packet of gathered resources to
be presented to my friend’s doctor, counselor, lawyer, and parents.

Please only respond if you have been treated personally.

Many thanks,
Winston

http://www.lavondyss.com/donut – new & improved! no more awful green background! now actually legible!
PGP public key, hushmail address, livejournal & AIM info available upon request.

“There is an almost sensual longing for communion with others who have a larger vision. The immense fulfillment of the friendships between those engaged in furthering the evolution of consciousness has a quality almost impossible to describe.”
– Teilhard de Chardin

From: Winston Ford <winstonford@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Personal accounts of treatment centers
Date: April 8, 2004 at 12:50:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

None whatsoever. I would appreciate any suggestions with 1st hand reports.

thanks,
W

On Apr 8, 2004, at 12:39 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/8/04 3:35:56 PM, winstonford@mac.com writes:

who have been treated at one of the following centers:

– Mash’s in St. Kitts
– Taub’s Off coast of Florida
– Vancouver

Any reason you have excluded the ibogaine association in mexico?

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Personal accounts of treatment centers
Date: April 8, 2004 at 12:39:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/8/04 3:35:56 PM, winstonford@mac.com writes:

who have been treated at one of the following centers:

– Mash’s in St. Kitts
– Taub’s Off coast of Florida
– Vancouver

Any reason you have excluded the ibogaine association in mexico?

Howard

From: Winston Ford <winstonford@mac.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Personal accounts of treatment centers
Date: April 8, 2004 at 11:27:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

For the sake of a dear friend in need, I am attempting to gather info towards making a constructive choice for Ibogaine treatment. The friend has a self destructive cocaine, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine addiction. I am interested in hearing personal accounts from patients who have been treated at one of the following centers:

– Mash’s in St. Kitts
– Taub’s Off coast of Florida
– Vancouver

These accounts are to be included in a packet of gathered resources to be presented to my friend’s doctor, counselor, lawyer, and parents.

Please only respond if you have been treated personally.

Many thanks,
Winston

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: furthermorE/callie’s methadone
Date: April 8, 2004 at 7:55:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison, My clinic, which is Middle Tennessee Treatment Center in Nashville, has a phase program set up by state guidelines.
You have to acquire a total number of days in the program plus a total number of counseling hours and clean urine screens to be eligible for takehomes.
The clinic is open 7 days a week for the people just beginning and they have to have a total number of hours with their counselor before they are even eligible for Sunday take home. So, as a result they say it is up to client how soon you get takehomes.
Presently I visit clinic twice weekly to pick up my methadone. I am eligible for weekly and even biweekly if I keep my urines clean. I have enough counseling hours for even once a month visits but I would have to slowly work up to that. At present I am not confident enough in myself to apply for weekly visits. If I get stressed I have a tendency to ‘sip’ from my takehomes and have ran out before and feel like shit for couple of days! lol! So, I just stay on twice weekly visits.
Personally, I think once a month visits are an awful lot of medication for an addict to be in charge of.
They tell us that if something happens to our takehomes even if it is not our fault they will not replace them. I don’t know if this is absolutely written in stone but I would imagine it would have to be proven beyond a shadow of doubt before they would replace lost or stolen doses.
I have been on Methadone since summer of 1997. In fact, I took my first dose on my 38th birthday! It has saved my life! I feel I would be in prison or dead if I had not got on the Methadone program.
Thanks again for your interest and concern. I am not used to people being interested or worried about me!
Callie

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: furthermorE/callie’s methadone
Date: April 8, 2004 at 6:43:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good for you Callie for following through. Hopefully you will have a positive outcome and am sure if you do it will certainly benefit others who are, have been, or will be dealt the same treatment. I know bureaucracy exists all over but since reading this list am horrified at the bullshit bouncing around the States. Whatever happened to the land of freedom of speech and individual rights. My partner is on his 2nd term of Methadone Maintenance. Last time was about 4 years, this time he has been on 85mgs a day for about the last 6 years. Personally I have a real snot about the methadone but it works for him and seems to be about the only thing that stops him using, getting into debt & out of control etc. I can never decide if its actually the medication or the people running the programme that get up my nose so much. They are such control freaks usually but now after so many years they tend to leave us alone. I guess age has a lot to do with it too. At 44 yrs old and not causing any trouble perhaps its easier to stop hassling us and concentrate on the younger ones. Do you have to have councelling as part of your maintenance?? Anyway, wish you all the best of luck and am thinking of you. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 8 April 2004 4:56:56 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: furthermorE/callie’s methadone

Allison and Preston, Thanks so much for the inquiry. You know, it is weird, I have only been on this list a couple of months but I feel like you folks do care more than people I have been acquainted with for years!
I took all the advice that Howard had given me as far as filing grievance with NAMA and writing docs at SAMSHA. I am waiting to hear the result of the appeal I files with my Tenncare.
It will not interfere with my Methadone Maintenance as long as I am blessed enough to continue working every week but that isn’t the point. There are folks at my clinic who are less fortunate than I and it would interrupt their Meth Maintenance! They would be right back out there chasing that pill or shot.
I will let you all know once I hear anything. Again, Allison thanks so much for thinking of me! It does touch my soul!
Callie
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Other uses…
Date: April 8, 2004 at 2:59:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

good idea about the quit smoking – except, damn those big boy business bastards you refer too. NO. They can’t have ibo. I say NO to big business. We need to keep it within everyones reach. its a gift, not a cash crop. Surely an international; network like ours has the potential to get something going – even if (heaven forbid) its not in the USA initially. It would get there in the end if it worked well enough.

Come on peoples, what do u say??

—– Original Message —–
From: Scott
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

Wow! It sounds like you are doing some amazing work and I salute you for it!

I was thinking in terms of what it might take to get ibogaine off schedule I in the U.S. It seems to me that the most likely way to accomplish this would be to get some backing from a big drug company (reads: BIG political lobby)

And for that to happen they would need to see an opportunity to make… yeah, some serious cash.

Curing heroin and cocaine addictions is just never going to be that profitable–but there might be other more profitable uses that could entice them to get onboard.

For example: what if it could be shown that small sustained doses of ibogaine were more effective in helping people to quit smoking than bupropion (Zyban)? That could really get the pharm industry to sit up and take notice! With hundreds of millions of cigarette smokers trying to quit every year that means $$$$$$. Zyban already has HUGE sales–if a company could market ibogaine under a use patent for smoking cessation and advertise that it is better than Zyban… That could get those pharm execs salivating!

It wouldn’t even need to be alot better than Zyban. It would only need to be better enough for them to claim in their advertising that it is “better.”

There would be two major advantages to that scenario–

The first would only apply in the U.S. By getting ibogaine off schedule I that opens it up for ‘off-label’ uses meaning that doctors could prescribe it for things other than smoking cessation.

The second would apply worldwide. If ibogaine were being manufactured by the big boys to sell to cigarette smokers then that would bring the price down… wayyy down. If more is available and on the market for whatever reason then the price would drop faster than George Bush changes his stories about the evidence for WMDs in Iraq. Since you are treating many of your patients out of pocket this would mean you could afford to treat many more, OR you could save some money for yourself, which you obviously deserve.

And smoking cessation is only one possibility–the antidepressant market is also quite lucrative.

Anyway, it’s just a thought…

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/06/04 23:49:03
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Other uses…

The problem is when you want to do a research ,you have to have funds and people.
I have treated some with bulimia , that was a success.
Also for depression it works for some people, it worth trying.
from the 150 treatments , I have treated more then 70 people gratis for all kind of conditions, the last four years.
Im not a institute only an independent researcher who funded all of my own research and still.
In this way no one is looking from behind my shoulders and trying to manipulate the research for the needs
Of the pharmaceuticals industry ( as it was done with cannabis and marinol).
Regards,

P.S. Indra isnt an extract of Iboga, Indra is a internet shop who ripped off Carl and he hates it that you people always call
His stuff Indra . where is the respect ?

Van: Scott [mailto:scottmarkwell@toast.net]  Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2004 2:37 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: [ibogaine] Other uses…

I’m wondering if anyone knows if ibogaine has been studied for other uses? (besides interrupting addictions)

I know that uses like ‘antidepressant’ and ‘weight-loss’ are much bigger (and thus more lucrative) markets and positive study results in these areas could well get the attention of the pharmaceutical co’s in a way that no amount of positive results against addiction ever will. There just isn’t as much money in addiction treatment.

I guess I was just thinking that positive study results in those areas could well “open the door” to legalization and thus make ibogaine available to addicts via “off-label” prescriptions.

Anyone know anything about this?

Scott

IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose
Date: April 7, 2004 at 8:12:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Scott, Preston, Randy, and Howard for responding to my concerns. I
will read the articles referred to and so appreciate your insight.
Scott, your point is well taken- we really don’t know what happened from the
time he left his friends house until his body was dumped on the ground later
that evening. It is possible that he overdosed at the dealer’s, although all the
money he left with was still in his wallet. The RCMP said the coroner stated
that 2.45mg was a moderate amount. I guess I will never really know what
happened, but from your remarks, it does seem possible that he could have
overdosed on that amount. We live in a small town, and it was not until after
Chris was buried that the horror stories started to circulate, about what was
done to him, and the original friend admitted he had lied about finding him dead
in the bathroom and pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice. Suspects were
rounded up and questioned, but no one of course would talk, and they all have
left town- I won’t dwell on this, but as the anniversary approaches, I guess I
just need to resolve some issues in my own mind. Thanks again for your help- it
does help! Sue
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:36:59 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time), “Scott” wrote:

Amon, though I am not a doctor and I have only limited experience with cocaine I
have to agree with the others who have said that it seems unlikely that an I.V.
dose two hours prior could result in death. The half-life (the length of time it
takes the body to eliminate half the blood level achieved immediately after
administration) is only about one hour… so two hours later his serum levels
should have been down to about one quarter of what they were after the initial
dose. Cocaine is not a long lasting drug.

2.4 mg/L is a huge amount of cocaine in blood… I would think that a dose that
could raise serum levels such that it remained at 2.4 mg/L two hours later would
certainly have killed him immediately.

I will ask the question that others will ask, because if you are going to be
speaking to reporters you will need to have an answer for this–how do you know
that his last dose was two hours prior to his death? Did the autopsy report
determine that? If the autopsy report determined that his last I.V. usage was
two hours prior to his death then I would strongly recommend continuing to
research this because if that is the case then something definitely smells
fishy to me…

I wish you the best of luck.
Scott

——-Original Message——-
From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/07/04 14:45:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose

Yes, but with that much time passed after ingesting the cocaine, there is
some question in my mind as to whether or not we could justify blaming the
cocaine for the death. It seems that all those deaths showed was that the
victims all had cocaine in their system, not necessarily that it was what
killed them.
Again, I could be mistaken and the cocaine could be the culprit, but I’m
doubting it.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose

I recollect a basketball player dropping dead on the court several years
ago
due to using cocaine the day before. We also had a simalar experince on a
river in Tennessee that I used to guide rafts on where a young tourist was
partying on cocaine the night before and then died on the river the next
day.
~Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
CC: <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:00:04 -0400

Mother wrote >What it bothering me is that from the time he did cocain
IV,
over two hours passed, then he drove a vehicle over 20 miles to the
dealers
house- would an overdose have taken so long to kick in, and if he was in
that condition, could he have driven 20 miles?<

Hi,
I am very sorry, but can only speak from personal experience- I
cannot
for the life of me imagine driving 20 miles after a cocaine overdose, or
taking an overdose amount rather. There were a few times I thought I
myself
was going out from cocaine overdose due to all sorts of unpleasent signs
at
the time, and none of it would have allowed me to drive, much less 20
miles.
I’m not sure if someone can overdose on cocaine 2 hours after
ingesting
it IV, but, again only from personal experience not from medical
knowlege,
I
just can’t imagine that being the case. Seems to me the cocaine overdose,
particularly from IV use, happens pretty instantaneously, but I could be
mistaken.
On my part, I too apologize that I cannot be of any more help than
this.
I’d keep digging if I were you.
Peace, and please know I at least am thinking strong thoughts for you and
Chris’ child.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose

In a message dated 4/6/04 11:57:08 PM, amon@wetnightmare.com writes:

<< Hello group,

Some of you may recall I am the mother of Chris who died last year on
April
26.

This group gave him encouragement, support, and he was in the process of

arranging for ibogaine treatment. It took 8 months to receive the autopsy
report

which was only a few lines- 2.45mg/L of cocaine was detected as well as

Benzoylecgonine. The cause of death was listed as cocaine overdose, but I
have

several questions which I’m hoping someone on this list could help me
with.

Christopher’s body was dumped on the ground at a different location than
his

death, which was believed to have happened at the drug dealers. What it

bothering me is that from the time he did cocain IV, over two hours
passed,
then

he drove a vehicle over 20 miles to the dealers house- would an overdose
have

taken so long to kick in, and if he was in that condition, could he have
driven

20 miles? Do you think the dosage was enough to cause death? and what is

benzoylecogonine? The reason I ask these questions is because I believe
foul

play may have been involved and the police did not take my concerns
seriously-

after all, he was a junkie, disposable garbage!! I am speaking to a
newspaper

reporter tomorrow, and don’t want to sound as ignorant as I surely am
about

these matters. Thank you for helping me, and thank you to everyone in
this
group

who made Chris’s last months hopeful. His website is still up at
amonworld.com.

Appreciate any responses- mother – sue PS Chris’s beautiful baby boy was
born
in

November, healthy and much loved- a gift!!! >>

Glad you have Chris. I am not expert to answer your questions but, did a
search on medline and will provide the citations, abstracts and urls.
The
full
papers will provide more information and you may write to the authors
should
you wish. Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Howard

Am J Emerg Med. 2000 Sep;18(5):593-8.

Comment in:
* Am J Emerg Med. 2000 Sep;18(5):635-6.

Blood cocaine and metabolite concentrations, clinical findings, and
outcome
of patients presenting to an ED.
Blaho K, Logan B, Winbery S, Park L, Schwilke E.

Department of Emergency Medicine and Clinical Toxicology, University of
Washington, Seattle, USA. kblaho@aol.com
The purpose was to determine if blood cocaine or metabolite
concentrations
would accurately reflect the severity of clinical findings in patients
presenting to the emergency department, identifying those requiring
therapeutic
intervention or those at risk for poor outcome. Blood for determination
of
cocaine
and metabolite concentrations was drawn from patients and were determined
by
an
extractive alkylation/mass spectrometry procedure. The mean blood
concentrations (mg/L) in 111 patients were as follows: cocaine, 0.26 +/-
0.5; ecgonine
0.42 +/- 0.47; ecgonine methyl ester 0.21 +/- 0.37, norcocaine 0.03 +/-
0.17;
benzoylecgonine 1.28 +/- 1.29, cocaethylene 0.02 +/- 0.06. Two patients
died, 23
required hospital admission, and 88 were discharged from the ED. There
was
no
statistical correlation between cocaine or any metabolite concentration
and
the severity of clinical symptoms, disposition, need for treatment or
outcome.
Blood cocaine and metabolite concentrations should be interpreted with
caution
because they vary widely and do not predict the severity of clinical
findings,
the incidence of adverse effects, outcome, or need for interventional
therapy.
Department of Emergency Medicine and Clinical Toxicology, University of
Washington, Seattle, USA. kblaho@aol.com
The purpose was to determine if blood cocaine or metabolite
concentrations
would accurately reflect the severity of clinical findings in patients
presenting to the emergency department, identifying those requiring
therapeutic
intervention or those at risk for poor outcome. Blood for determination
of
cocaine
and metabolite concentrations was drawn from patients and were determined
by
an
extractive alkylation/mass spectrometry procedure. The mean blood
concentrations (mg/L) in 111 patients were as follows: cocaine, 0.26 +/-
0.5; ecgonine
0.42 +/- 0.47; ecgonine methyl ester 0.21 +/- 0.37, norcocaine 0.03 +/-
0.17;
benzoylecgonine 1.28 +/- 1.29, cocaethylene 0.02 +/- 0.06. Two patients
died, 23
required hospital admission, and 88 were discharged from the ED. There
was
no
statistical correlation between cocaine or any metabolite concentration
and
the severity of clinical symptoms, disposition, need for treatment or
outcome.
Blood cocaine and metabolite concentrations should be interpreted with
caution
because they vary widely and do not predict the severity of clinical
findings,
the incidence of adverse effects, outcome, or need for interventional
therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop
t=A
bstract&list_uids=10999576

*****************
J Anal Toxicol. 1997 Jan-Feb;21(1):23-31.

Lack of predictable site-dependent differences and time-dependent changes
in
postmortem concentrations of cocaine, benzoylecgonine, and cocaethylene
in
humans.
Logan BK, Smirnow D, Gullberg RG.

Washington State Toxicology Laboratory, Department of Laboratory
Medicine,
University of Washington, Seattle 98134, USA.
This study evaluated the stability of cocaine, benzoylecgonine, and
cocaethylene in postmortem fluids in cases of cocaine-related death.
Femoral
and
ventricular blood and cisternal cerebrospinal fluid were collected soon
after death
and again at the time of autopsy. In addition, iliac blood was collected
at
autopsy. There were no consistent patterns of site-specific differences
for
any
of the analytes, and the central compartment showed both higher and lower
concentrations than the peripheral. There was no consistent pattern of
direction
or magnitude of change in the concentrations with respect to time for any
of
the analytes. This is consistent with anecdotal reports from other
workers
and
is believed to be a result of competing processes of tissue release and
chemical and enzymatic degradation of the analytes. Postmortem cocaine
and
metabolite
concentrations in blood are not necessarily reflective of the perimortem
concentrations and should not be the primary consideration in determining
the
cause of death in suspected cocaine-related deaths.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop
t=A
bstract&list_uids=9013288
******************
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1999 Jun 29;877:507-22.

D3 dopamine and kappa opioid receptor alterations in human brain of
cocaine-overdose victims.
Mash DC, Staley JK.
Department of Neurology, University of Miami School of Medicine, Florida
33136, USA. dmash@mednet.med.miami.edu
Cocaine is thought to be addictive because chronic use leads to molecular
adaptations within the mesolimbic dopamine (DA) circuitry, which affects
motivated behavior and emotion. Although the reinforcing effects of
cocaine
are
mediated primarily by blockade of DA uptake, reciprocal signaling between
DA
and
endogenous opioids has important implications for understanding cocaine
dependence. We have used in vitro autoradiography and ligand binding to
map
D3 DA and
kappa opioid receptors in the human brains of cocaine-overdose victims.
The
number of D3 binding sites was increased one-to threefold over the
nucleus
accumbens and ventromedial sectors of the caudate and putamen from
cocaine-overdose
victims, as compared to age-matched and drug-free control subjects. D3
receptor/cyclophilin mRNA ratios in the nucleus accumbens were increased
sixfold in
cocaine-overdose victims over control values, suggesting that cocaine
exposure
also affects the expression of D3 receptor mRNA. The number of kappa
opioid
receptors in the nucleus accumbens and other corticolimbic areas from
cocaine
fatalities was increased twofold as compared to control values.
Cocaine-overdose
victims exhibiting preterminal excited delirium had a selective
upregulation
of kappa receptors measured also in the amygdala. Understanding the
complex
regulatory profiles of DA and opioid synaptic markers that occur with
chronic
misuse of cocaine may suggest multitarget strategies for treating cocaine
dependence.
****************
Anaesthesiol Reanim. 1996;21(6):163-6. Related Articles, Links

[Acute cocaine intoxication with fatal outcome]
[Article in German]
Rudolph I, Tiefenbach B, Tiess D, Wegener R, Kloock R, Kobow M.
Klinik und Poliklinik fur Anaesthesiologie und Intensivtherapie,
Medizinischen Fakultat, Universitat Rostock.
The clinical course and some toxicologic-analytical aspects of an acute
intoxication with cocaine are presented. Diagnosis was made by the
induced
toxicologic emergency investigation since neither symptoms nor clinical
test
results
or anamnestic data showed relevant diagnostic information. Based on the
results
of the analytic investigation, we concluded it was a suicide based on
long-term abuse of cocaine. Because of the unusually high concentrations
of
cocaine
und cocaine metabolites in the body of liquids and tissues, it seemed
probable
that the patient was intoxicated with a lethal dose of at least 1 g
cocaine.
This case report underlines the importance of clinical and toxicological
investigations in the diagnostic procedure of unclear comata and the
importance of
forensic toxicological analysis in clarifying anamnestic questions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=p
ubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9090951
**********************
J Forensic Sci. 1989 Jan;34(1):53-63. Related Articles, Links

Analysis of cocaine-positive fatalities.
Tardiff K, Gross E, Wu J, Stajic M, Millman R.
New York University School of Medicine, NY.
A review of all autopsy and toxicology reports for persons dying in New
York
City in an 11-month period found 935 persons dying with cocaine in their
bodies. Cocaine-positive fatalities were more likely in the young black
and
Hispanic and male population. In addition to cocaine and its metabolites,
heroin and
other opiates were found in 39% of persons and ethanol in 33% and
barbiturates
and minor tranquilizers in only 2% of the deceased. Cocaine overdose was
responsible for 4% of the deaths and overdose with heroin and cocaine for
12% of
the deaths. Violence was often the cause of death. Thirty-eight percent
died
of
homicide, seven percent of suicide, and eight percent from accidents. Of
particular interest were 6 persons who died of acute cardiac events
directly
related to cocaine as well as 4 cases of ruptured dissections of the
ascending
aorta, and 9 cases of cerebral hemorrhage. Autopsy findings for these
individuals
are described, and possible mechanisms of death are discussed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop
t=A
bstract&list_uids=2918288
***************

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____________________________________________________ IncrediMail – Email has
finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Scott” <scottmarkwell@toast.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose
Date: April 7, 2004 at 6:36:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amon, though I am not a doctor and I have only limited experience with cocaine I have to agree with the others who have said that it seems unlikely that an I.V. dose two hours prior could result in death. The half-life (the length of time it takes the body to eliminate half the blood level achieved immediately after administration) is only about one hour… so two hours later his serum levels should have been down to about one quarter of what they were after the initial dose. Cocaine is not a long lasting drug.

2.4 mg/L is a huge amount of cocaine in blood… I would think that a dose that could raise serum levels such that it remained at 2.4 mg/L two hours later would certainly have killed him immediately.

I will ask the question that others will ask, because if you are going to be speaking to reporters you will need to have an answer for this–how do you know that his last dose was two hours prior to his death? Did the autopsy report determine that? If the autopsy report determined that his last I.V. usage was two hours prior to his death then I would strongly recommend continuing to research this because if that is the case then something definitely smells fishy to me…

I wish you the best of luck.
Scott

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: 04/07/04 14:45:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose

—– Original Message —–
From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose

> I recollect a basketball player dropping dead on the court several years
ago
> due to using cocaine the day before. We also had a simalar experince on a
> river in Tennessee that I used to guide rafts on where a young tourist was
> partying on cocaine the night before and then died on the river the next
> day.
> ~Randy
>
>
> >From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >CC: <amon@wetnightmare.com>
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose
> >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:00:04 -0400
> >
> >Mother wrote >What it bothering me is that from the time he did cocain
IV,
> >over two hours passed, then he drove a vehicle over 20 miles to the
dealers
> >house- would an overdose have taken so long to kick in, and if he was in
> >that condition, could he have  driven 20 miles?<
> >
> >Hi,
> >     I am very sorry, but can only speak from personal experience- I
cannot
> >for the life of me imagine driving 20 miles after a cocaine overdose, or
> >taking an overdose amount rather. There were a few times I thought I
myself
> >was going out from cocaine overdose due to all sorts of unpleasent signs
at
> >the time, and none of it would have allowed me to drive, much less 20
> >miles.
> >     I’m not sure if someone can overdose on cocaine 2 hours after
> >ingesting
> >it IV, but, again only from personal experience not from medical
knowlege,
> >I
> >just can’t imagine that being the case. Seems to me the cocaine overdose,
> >particularly from IV use, happens pretty instantaneously, but I could be
> >mistaken.
> >     On my part, I too apologize that I cannot be of any more help than
> >this.
> >I’d keep digging if I were you.
> >Peace, and please know I at least am thinking strong thoughts for you and
> >Chris’ child.
> >Preston
> >
> >
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:30 PM
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 4/6/04 11:57:08 PM, amon@wetnightmare.com writes:
> >
> ><< Hello group,
> >
> >Some of you may recall I am the mother of Chris who died last year on
April
> >26.
> >
> >This group gave him encouragement, support, and he was in the process of
> >
> >arranging for ibogaine treatment. It took 8 months to receive the autopsy
> >report
> >
> >which was only a few lines- 2.45mg/L of cocaine was detected as well as
> >
> >Benzoylecgonine. The cause of death was listed as cocaine overdose, but I
> >have
> >
> >several questions which I’m hoping someone on this list could help me
with.
> >
> >Christopher’s body was dumped on the ground at a different location than
> >his
> >
> >death, which was believed to have happened at the drug dealers. What it
> >
> >bothering me is that from the time he did cocain IV, over two hours
passed,
> >then
> >
> >he drove a vehicle over 20 miles to the dealers house- would an overdose
> >have
> >
> >taken so long to kick in, and if he was in that condition, could he have
> >driven
> >
> >20 miles? Do you think the dosage was enough to cause death? and what is
> >
> >benzoylecogonine? The reason I ask these questions is because I believe
> >foul
> >
> >play may have been involved and the police did not take my concerns
> >seriously-
> >
> >after all, he was a junkie, disposable garbage!! I am speaking to a
> >newspaper
> >
> >reporter tomorrow, and don’t want to sound as ignorant as I surely am
about
> >
> >these matters. Thank you for helping me, and thank you to everyone in
this
> >group
> >
> >who made Chris’s last months hopeful. His website is still up at
> >amonworld.com.
> >
> >Appreciate any responses- mother – sue PS Chris’s beautiful baby boy was
> >born
> >in
> >
> >November, healthy and much loved- a gift!!! >>
> >
> >Glad you have Chris.  I am not expert to answer your questions but, did a
> >search on medline and will provide the citations, abstracts and urls.
The
> >full
> >papers will provide more information and you may write to the authors
> >should
> >you wish.  Sorry I cannot be of more help.
> >
> >Howard
> >
> >Am J Emerg Med. 2000 Sep;18(5):593-8.
> >
> >Comment in:
> >*   Am J Emerg Med. 2000 Sep;18(5):635-6.
> >
> >Blood cocaine and metabolite concentrations, clinical findings, and
outcome
> >of patients presenting to an ED.
> >Blaho K, Logan B, Winbery S, Park L, Schwilke E.
> >
> >Department of Emergency Medicine and Clinical Toxicology, University of
> >Washington, Seattle, USA. kblaho@aol.com
> >The purpose was to determine if blood cocaine or metabolite
concentrations
> >would accurately reflect the severity of clinical findings in patients
> >presenting to the emergency department, identifying those requiring
> >therapeutic
> >intervention or those at risk for poor outcome. Blood for determination
of
> >cocaine
> >and metabolite concentrations was drawn from patients and were determined
> >by
> >an
> >extractive alkylation/mass spectrometry procedure. The mean blood
> >concentrations (mg/L) in 111 patients were as follows: cocaine, 0.26 +/-
> >0.5; ecgonine
> >0.42 +/- 0.47; ecgonine methyl ester 0.21 +/- 0.37, norcocaine 0.03 +/-
> >0.17;
> >benzoylecgonine 1.28 +/- 1.29, cocaethylene 0.02 +/- 0.06. Two patients
> >died, 23
> >required hospital admission, and 88 were discharged from the ED. There
was
> >no
> >statistical correlation between cocaine or any metabolite concentration
and
> >the severity of clinical symptoms, disposition, need for treatment or
> >outcome.
> >Blood cocaine and metabolite concentrations should be interpreted with
> >caution
> >because they vary widely and do not predict the severity of clinical
> >findings,
> >the incidence of adverse effects, outcome, or need for interventional
> >therapy.
> >Department of Emergency Medicine and Clinical Toxicology, University of
> >Washington, Seattle, USA. kblaho@aol.com
> >The purpose was to determine if blood cocaine or metabolite
concentrations
> >would accurately reflect the severity of clinical findings in patients
> >presenting to the emergency department, identifying those requiring
> >therapeutic
> >intervention or those at risk for poor outcome. Blood for determination
of
> >cocaine
> >and metabolite concentrations was drawn from patients and were determined
> >by
> >an
> >extractive alkylation/mass spectrometry procedure. The mean blood
> >concentrations (mg/L) in 111 patients were as follows: cocaine, 0.26 +/-
> >0.5; ecgonine
> >0.42 +/- 0.47; ecgonine methyl ester 0.21 +/- 0.37, norcocaine 0.03 +/-
> >0.17;
> >benzoylecgonine 1.28 +/- 1.29, cocaethylene 0.02 +/- 0.06. Two patients
> >died, 23
> >required hospital admission, and 88 were discharged from the ED. There
was
> >no
> >statistical correlation between cocaine or any metabolite concentration
and
> >the severity of clinical symptoms, disposition, need for treatment or
> >outcome.
> >Blood cocaine and metabolite concentrations should be interpreted with
> >caution
> >because they vary widely and do not predict the severity of clinical
> >findings,
> >the incidence of adverse effects, outcome, or need for interventional
> >therapy.
> >
> >
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop
t=A
> >bstract&list_uids=10999576
> >
> >*****************
> >J Anal Toxicol. 1997 Jan-Feb;21(1):23-31.
> >
> >Lack of predictable site-dependent differences and time-dependent changes
> >in
> >postmortem concentrations of cocaine, benzoylecgonine, and cocaethylene
in
> >humans.
> >Logan BK, Smirnow D, Gullberg RG.
> >
> >Washington State Toxicology Laboratory, Department of Laboratory
Medicine,
> >University of Washington, Seattle 98134, USA.
> >This study evaluated the stability of cocaine, benzoylecgonine, and
> >cocaethylene in postmortem fluids in cases of cocaine-related death.
> >Femoral
> >and
> >ventricular blood and cisternal cerebrospinal fluid were collected soon
> >after death
> >and again at the time of autopsy. In addition, iliac blood was collected
at
> >autopsy. There were no consistent patterns of site-specific differences
for
> >any
> >of the analytes, and the central compartment showed both higher and lower
> >concentrations than the peripheral. There was no consistent pattern of
> >direction
> >or magnitude of change in the concentrations with respect to time for any
> >of
> >the analytes. This is consistent with anecdotal reports from other
workers
> >and
> >is believed to be a result of competing processes of tissue release and
> >chemical and enzymatic degradation of the analytes. Postmortem cocaine
and
> >metabolite
> >concentrations in blood are not necessarily reflective of the perimortem
> >concentrations and should not be the primary consideration in determining
> >the
> >cause of death in suspected cocaine-related deaths.
> >
> >
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop
t=A
> >bstract&list_uids=9013288
> >******************
> >Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1999 Jun 29;877:507-22.
> >
> >D3 dopamine and kappa opioid receptor alterations in human brain of
> >cocaine-overdose victims.
> >Mash DC, Staley JK.
> >Department of Neurology, University of Miami School of Medicine, Florida
> >33136, USA. dmash@mednet.med.miami.edu
> >Cocaine is thought to be addictive because chronic use leads to molecular
> >adaptations within the mesolimbic dopamine (DA) circuitry, which affects
> >motivated behavior and emotion. Although the reinforcing effects of
cocaine
> >are
> >mediated primarily by blockade of DA uptake, reciprocal signaling between
> >DA
> >and
> >endogenous opioids has important implications for understanding cocaine
> >dependence. We have used in vitro autoradiography and ligand binding to
map
> >D3 DA and
> >kappa opioid receptors in the human brains of cocaine-overdose victims.
The
> >number of D3 binding sites was increased one-to threefold over the
nucleus
> >accumbens and ventromedial sectors of the caudate and putamen from
> >cocaine-overdose
> >victims, as compared to age-matched and drug-free control subjects. D3
> >receptor/cyclophilin mRNA ratios in the nucleus accumbens were increased
> >sixfold in
> >cocaine-overdose victims over control values, suggesting that cocaine
> >exposure
> >also affects the expression of D3 receptor mRNA. The number of kappa
opioid
> >receptors in the nucleus accumbens and other corticolimbic areas from
> >cocaine
> >fatalities was increased twofold as compared to control values.
> >Cocaine-overdose
> >victims exhibiting preterminal excited delirium had a selective
> >upregulation
> >of kappa receptors measured also in the amygdala. Understanding the
complex
> >regulatory profiles of DA and opioid synaptic markers that occur with
> >chronic
> >misuse of cocaine may suggest multitarget strategies for treating cocaine
> >dependence.
> >****************
> >  Anaesthesiol Reanim. 1996;21(6):163-6.     Related Articles, Links
> >
> >[Acute cocaine intoxication with fatal outcome]
> >[Article in German]
> >Rudolph I, Tiefenbach B, Tiess D, Wegener R, Kloock R, Kobow M.
> >Klinik und Poliklinik fur Anaesthesiologie und Intensivtherapie,
> >Medizinischen Fakultat, Universitat Rostock.
> >The clinical course and some toxicologic-analytical aspects of an acute
> >intoxication with cocaine are presented. Diagnosis was made by the
induced
> >toxicologic emergency investigation since neither symptoms nor clinical
> >test
> >results
> >or anamnestic data showed relevant diagnostic information. Based on the
> >results
> >of the analytic investigation, we concluded it was a suicide based on
> >long-term abuse of cocaine. Because of the unusually high concentrations
of
> >cocaine
> >und cocaine metabolites in the body of liquids and tissues, it seemed
> >probable
> >that the patient was intoxicated with a lethal dose of at least 1 g
> >cocaine.
> >This case report underlines the importance of clinical and toxicological
> >investigations in the diagnostic procedure of unclear comata and the
> >importance of
> >forensic toxicological analysis in clarifying anamnestic questions.
> >
> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=p
> >ubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9090951
> >**********************
> >J Forensic Sci. 1989 Jan;34(1):53-63.   Related Articles, Links
> >
> >Analysis of cocaine-positive fatalities.
> >Tardiff K, Gross E, Wu J, Stajic M, Millman R.
> >New York University School of Medicine, NY.
> >A review of all autopsy and toxicology reports for persons dying in New
> >York
> >City in an 11-month period found 935 persons dying with cocaine in their
> >bodies. Cocaine-positive fatalities were more likely in the young black
and
> >Hispanic and male population. In addition to cocaine and its metabolites,
> >heroin and
> >other opiates were found in 39% of persons and ethanol in 33% and
> >barbiturates
> >and minor tranquilizers in only 2% of the deceased. Cocaine overdose was
> >responsible for 4% of the deaths and overdose with heroin and cocaine for
> >12% of
> >the deaths. Violence was often the cause of death. Thirty-eight percent
> >died
> >of
> >homicide, seven percent of suicide, and eight percent from accidents. Of
> >particular interest were 6 persons who died of acute cardiac events
> >directly
> >related to cocaine as well as 4 cases of ruptured dissections of the
> >ascending
> >aorta, and 9 cases of cerebral hemorrhage. Autopsy findings for these
> >individuals
> >are described, and possible mechanisms of death are discussed.
> >
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dop
t=A
> >bstract&list_uids=2918288
> >***************
> >
> >
>
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine overdose
Date: April 7, 2004 at 5:44:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com