Ibogaine List Archives – 2003-09

From: geoffsummer@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [ibogaine] usergs417@aol.com has a new email address
Date: September 30, 2003 at 6:12:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

usergs417@aol.com
has a new e-mail address

Hello,

I have just switched my email address from usergs417@aol.com to geoffsummer@sbcglobal.net. Please use this new address for all future emails and instant messages.

Experience a faster, more useful Internet from SBC Yahoo!: http://sbc.yahoo.com

To keep in touch with instant messaging, you can download the latest version of Yahoo Messenger for free at: http://messenger.yahoo.com

Thanks,
geoffsummer@sbcglobal.net
Note: This message was sent by TrueSwitch at the request of geoffsummer@sbcglobal.net

SBC Yahoo! Switching Services provided by TrueSwitch: http://www.trueswitch.com

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…
Date: September 30, 2003 at 7:30:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In fact, High Times is transitioning into a lifestyle magazine in order to get mainstream advertisers. The DEA has not so subtly threatened HT/the Forcade trust with legal action if it continues to carry paraphernalia ads,  marijuana seed ads, and fake bud ads. There really won’t be many advertisers left after that so I understand HT has sacked much of its staff and is re-positioning itself away >from pot.

Marc Emery

—–Original Message—–
From: Douglas Greene [mailto:douggreene@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…

Dana wrote:

Ethan works for Soros, BTW.

I think the Alliance is no longer affiliated with Soros.  They moved out of the OSI building, for sure.

But H.T., as I said, was not intended by its founder Tom Forcade to be a pot magazine, and that’s what the argument is about. Hager became editor-in-chief & turned it into one two or three years  after that initial ibo article. (Which was an improvement on centerfolds of coke). In the past 10 years they’ve kinda stopped writing about ibo, cause DPA, NORML and the Kennedys circled the wagons in support of the status quo, which included methadone, clean needles, and heroin trials…but not Ibogaine.

Times and personnel change.  Valerie is now their new news editor, and Bloom seemed very receptive to the angle on an ibo story I pitched him last week.  Let’s see what happens.  It’s clear that they needed to shift the focus of the magazine to something broader, if for nothing more tan commercial reasons.

Doug/cnw

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] FWD tech support
Date: September 30, 2003 at 5:47:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Original message follows:
***********************

<< This is for all you wonderful people that keep asking me tech questions

about your computers.

Tech Support: Yes Ma’am, how can I help you?

Customer: Well, after much consideration, I’ve decided to Install Love.

Can  you guide me through the process?

Tech Support: Yes I can help you. Are you ready to proceed?

Customer: Well, I’m not very technical, but I think I’m ready. What do I do

first?

Tech Support: The first step is to open your heart. Have you located

your heart Ma’am?

Customer: Yes, but there are several other programs running now. Is it okay

to

install Love while they are running?

Tech Support: What programs are running Ma’am?

Customer: Let’s see, I have past-hurt, low self-esteem, grudge, and

resentment running right now.

Tech Support: No problem, Love will gradually erase past-hurt from your

current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory, but it

will no longer disrupt other

programs. Love will eventually override low self-esteem with a module of

it’s own called

high self-esteem. However, you have to completely turn off grudge and

resentment. Those

programs prevent Love from being properly installed. Can you turn those off

Ma’am?

Customer: I don’t know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?

Tech Support: With pleasure. Go to your start menu and invoke

forgiveness. Do this as many  times as necessary until grudge and

forgiveness have completely erased.

Customer: Okay done, Love has started installing itself. Is that normal?

Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program.

You need to begin connecting to other hearts in order to get the upgrades.

Customer: Oops! I have an error message already. It says, “error-program

not run on external components.” What should I do?

Tech Support: Don’t worry Ma’am, It means the Love program is set-up to

run on internal hearts but has not yet been run on your heart. In

non-technical terms,

it means you have to Love yourself before you can Love others.

Customer: So what should I do?

Tech Support: Can you pull down self-acceptance; then click on the

following files: Forgive-self; Realize your worth; Acknowledge your

limitations.

Customer: OK, done.

Tech Support: Now copy them to the “My Heart” directory.

The system will overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching faulty

programming. Also, you need to delete verbose self-criticism from all

directories and empty your recycle bin to make sure it is completely

gone and never comes back.

Customer: Got it. Hey!!! My Heart is filling up with new files. Smile is

playing on my

monitor and Peace and Contentment are copying themselves all over My Heart.

Is this normal?

Tech Support: Sometimes. For others it takes a while, but eventually

everything gets downloaded at the proper time. So Love is installed and

running.

One more thing before we hang-up,

Love is Freeware. Be sure to give it and it’s various modules to everyone

you meet. They will

in turn share it with others and return some cool modules back to you.

Customer: I promise to do just that. By the way, what’s your name?

Tech Support: Just call me the Divine Cardiologist, also known as the

Great Physician, or just “I AM.” Most people feel all they need is an annual

checkup to stay heart-healthy; but the manufacturer (ME) suggests a daily

maintenance schedule for maximum Love efficiency. >>

<< This is for all you wonderful people that keep asking me tech questions

about your computers.

Tech Support: Yes Ma’am, how can I help you?

Customer: Well, after much consideration, I’ve decided to Install Love.

Can  you guide me through the process?

Tech Support: Yes I can help you. Are you ready to proceed?

Customer: Well, I’m not very technical, but I think I’m ready. What do I do

first?

Tech Support: The first step is to open your heart. Have you located

your heart Ma’am?

Customer: Yes, but there are several other programs running now. Is it okay

to

install Love while they are running?

Tech Support: What programs are running Ma’am?

Customer: Let’s see, I have past-hurt, low self-esteem, grudge, and

resentment running right now.

Tech Support: No problem, Love will gradually erase past-hurt from your

current operating system. It may remain in your permanent memory, but it

will no longer disrupt other

programs. Love will eventually override low self-esteem with a module of

it’s own called

high self-esteem. However, you have to completely turn off grudge and

resentment. Those

programs prevent Love from being properly installed. Can you turn those off

Ma’am?

Customer: I don’t know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?

Tech Support: With pleasure. Go to your start menu and invoke

forgiveness. Do this as many  times as necessary until grudge and

forgiveness have completely erased.

Customer: Okay done, Love has started installing itself. Is that normal?

Tech Support: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program.

You need to begin connecting to other hearts in order to get the upgrades.

Customer: Oops! I have an error message already. It says, “error-program

not run on external components.” What should I do?

Tech Support: Don’t worry Ma’am, It means the Love program is set-up to

run on internal hearts but has not yet been run on your heart. In

non-technical terms,

it means you have to Love yourself before you can Love others.

Customer: So what should I do?

Tech Support: Can you pull down self-acceptance; then click on the

following files: Forgive-self; Realize your worth; Acknowledge your

limitations.

Customer: OK, done.

Tech Support: Now copy them to the “My Heart” directory.

The system will overwrite any conflicting files and begin patching faulty

programming. Also, you need to delete verbose self-criticism from all

directories and empty your recycle bin to make sure it is completely

gone and never comes back.

Customer: Got it. Hey!!! My Heart is filling up with new files. Smile is

playing on my

monitor and Peace and Contentment are copying themselves all over My Heart.

Is this normal?

Tech Support: Sometimes. For others it takes a while, but eventually

everything gets downloaded at the proper time. So Love is installed and

running.

One more thing before we hang-up,

Love is Freeware. Be sure to give it and it’s various modules to everyone

you meet. They will

in turn share it with others and return some cool modules back to you.

Customer: I promise to do just that. By the way, what’s your name?

Tech Support: Just call me the Divine Cardiologist, also known as the

Great Physician, or just “I AM.” Most people feel all they need is an annual

checkup to stay heart-healthy; but the manufacturer (ME) suggests a daily

maintenance schedule for maximum Love efficiency. >>

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dept Health&HumanServices reply
Date: September 30, 2003 at 4:29:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://ds1.psc.dhhs.gov/hhsdir/eeKey.asp?Key=99265
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Office of Public Health Preparedness

Acronym list……:   HHS/OS/IOS/IO/OPHP
Phone…………….:   202-401-4862
Postal address.:   200 Independence Ave. S.W., Room 636-G, Washington, DC 20201
Web site…………:   www.hhs.gov/ophp
Parent Organizations

* Department of Health & Human Services
* Office of the Secretary
* Immediate Office of the Secretary
* Immediate Office

Immediate Staff Positions

* Director, Jerome M. Hauer
* Phone…….:   202-401-4862
* Fax…………:   202-690-7412
* E-mail…….:   Jerome.Hauer@hhs.gov
* Location….:   200 Independence Ave., S.W., Room 636-G, Washington, DC 20201

* Principal Deputy Director, William Raub
* Phone…….:   202-401-4862
* Fax…………:   202-690-7412
* E-mail…….:   William.Raub@hhs.gov
* Location….:   200 Independence Ave., S.W., Room 636-G, Washington, DC 20201

* Principal Science Advisor, Dr. D.A. Henderson
* Phone…….:   202-401-4862
* Fax…………:   202-690-7412
* E-mail…….:   DA.Henderson@hhs.gov
* Location…:   200 Independence Ave., S.W., Room 636-G, Washington, DC 20201

* Secretary’s Command Center
* Phone…….:   202-358-2413

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003, 11:10 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dept Health&HumanServices reply

deartheo,

Can you tell me who Dr. Raub is and exactly to whom did you write your letter
and can your provide the text of your letter to Dr. Raub.

Thanks

Howard

In a message dated 9/30/03 5:02:29 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

…Dr. Raub has requested that I reply directly to your inquiry.

Your letter contends that the DHHS is unaware of ibogaine and not interested
in funding research with ibogaine.  This is not accurate.  DHHS has been
aware of ibogaine wince the early 1990’s when Mr. Howard Lotsof brought
it to our attention.  There is a variety of information concerning ibogaine
available in the published literature and on the Internet, and various
journals and periodicals continue to publish occasional stories on ibogaine.
Additionally, meetings were held with Mr. Howard Lotsof and Dr. Deborah
Mash concerning their interest in seeking approval of ibogaine as a potential
addiction treatment medication.  Subsequently, Dr. Mash received permission
from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to conduct clinical trials
of ibogaine in the United States.  To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Mash
is conducting clinical research with ibogaine in St. Kitts, Netherlands
Antilles.  As with all other potential medications seeking to be approved
for marketing in the United States, data developed by Dr. Mash and/or other
researchers or companies would of need to be submitted to the FDA in support
of a New Drug Application.

Regarding U.S. Government sponsored research-funding, individuals and
institutions
are free to apply to the National Institutes on Health for grants to fund
their projects.  A peer review process, utilizing non-federal scientists
to review and evaluate all research grant proposals, determines funding
priority for grants.  Each project grant application is reviewed on its
own merits.  There is no policy that precludes ibogaine from this process,
and indeed, over the years the National Institute on Drug Abuse has funded
some grants related to ibogaine or its close chemical relatives.  For
example,
one researcher was funded for his attempts to modify the molecular structure
of ibogaine to reduce its tremorogenic properties.  The grant process remains
open and available for any individual, institution, or company wishing
to propose projects concerning ibogaine.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Lee Cummings
Special Assistant to the Director,
Division of Treatment Research and Development
National Institute on Drug Abuse

From: “Adam Gur” <adamgur@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] guide in africa? – Jean-Claude
Date: September 30, 2003 at 3:57:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jean-Claude,

I am still waitng to receive the tracking number for my delivery, please contact me as soon as possible at this or my other email address.

Adam Gur

From: ccps ccps <snail_cam@yahoo.fr>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Randy,

i am a cameroonean  i live Douala .
if your friend like to see the authentic bwiti ,let he  contact me , i  can manage,take all the contact  and help him so that he can  meet a nganga in cameroon or assiste at a bwiti ceremonial if possible .
authentic bwiti is available in gabon and cameroon an no place else .
this is my phone number :002377629899
i am in iboga list
thanks
jean claude

———————————
Do You Yahoo!? — Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: ccps ccps <snail_cam@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] guide in africa?
Date: September 30, 2003 at 3:47:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Randy,

i am a cameroonean  i live Douala .
if your friend like to see the authentic bwiti ,let he  contact me , i  can manage,take all the contact and help him so that he can  meet a nganga in cameroon or assiste at a bwiti ceremonial if possible .
authentic bwiti is available in gabon and cameroon an no place else .
this is my phone number :002377629899
i am in iboga list
thanks
jean claude
Do You Yahoo!? — Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail

From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ayahuasca
Date: September 30, 2003 at 2:34:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, i would like to know if someone knows, about the diference and comun of ayahuasca and ibogaine. Can both be taken in tratment for adciction for opiates, of corse in a diferent time like few weecks in betwin. Is there similarity on the action in the brain.
Have someone experience about both of them?
Ayahuasca has the same propertys like to stop for a while the desire to use drugs?
If someone nows about it please give me some information.
Regards for the group
Jocy

_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dept Health&HumanServices reply
Date: September 30, 2003 at 2:09:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

deartheo,

Can you tell me who Dr. Raub is and exactly to whom did you write your letter
and can your provide the text of your letter to Dr. Raub.

Thanks

Howard

In a message dated 9/30/03 5:02:29 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

…Dr. Raub has requested that I reply directly to your inquiry.

Your letter contends that the DHHS is unaware of ibogaine and not interested
in funding research with ibogaine.  This is not accurate.  DHHS has been
aware of ibogaine wince the early 1990’s when Mr. Howard Lotsof brought
it to our attention.  There is a variety of information concerning ibogaine
available in the published literature and on the Internet, and various
journals and periodicals continue to publish occasional stories on ibogaine.
Additionally, meetings were held with Mr. Howard Lotsof and Dr. Deborah
Mash concerning their interest in seeking approval of ibogaine as a potential
addiction treatment medication.  Subsequently, Dr. Mash received permission
from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to conduct clinical trials
of ibogaine in the United States.  To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Mash
is conducting clinical research with ibogaine in St. Kitts, Netherlands
Antilles.  As with all other potential medications seeking to be approved
for marketing in the United States, data developed by Dr. Mash and/or other
researchers or companies would of need to be submitted to the FDA in support
of a New Drug Application.

Regarding U.S. Government sponsored research-funding, individuals and
institutions
are free to apply to the National Institutes on Health for grants to fund
their projects.  A peer review process, utilizing non-federal scientists
to review and evaluate all research grant proposals, determines funding
priority for grants.  Each project grant application is reviewed on its
own merits.  There is no policy that precludes ibogaine from this process,
and indeed, over the years the National Institute on Drug Abuse has funded
some grants related to ibogaine or its close chemical relatives.  For
example,
one researcher was funded for his attempts to modify the molecular structure
of ibogaine to reduce its tremorogenic properties.  The grant process remains
open and available for any individual, institution, or company wishing
to propose projects concerning ibogaine.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Lee Cummings
Special Assistant to the Director,
Division of Treatment Research and Development
National Institute on Drug Abuse

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] guide in africa?
Date: September 30, 2003 at 2:10:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Howard.  I will let everyone know if this materializes.

Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] guide in africa?
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:53:42 EDT

In a message dated 9/30/03 4:34:19 PM, randyhencken@hotmail.com writes:

>I have a friend who is currently in South Africa and is interested in an
>
>authentic bwiti/iboga experience.  Does anyone have any advice?  Will
>language be an issue?

Authentic Bwiti initiations most likely are not available in South Africa
but, in Gabon or Cameroun.  In Gabon French is just about a must unless you speak
an appropriate bantu dialect.  A Bwiti nganga’s web page can be accessed at
http://www.bwiti.com while another that “may”  represent a more english
tolerant experience can be accessed at http://www.f-i-a.org/ebando/

Keep us informed of developments.

Howard

_________________________________________________________________
Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments.  Get Hotmail Extra Storage!   http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hi…
Date: September 30, 2003 at 1:54:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/03 4:44:10 PM, petermooremd@yahoo.ca writes:

I just joined this list, I was hoping someone here
would know what happened to the calyx list- it doesn’t
seem to be operating anymore,

I am trying to get the calyx owners to get it going and will forward them you
email.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] guide in africa?
Date: September 30, 2003 at 1:53:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/30/03 4:34:19 PM, randyhencken@hotmail.com writes:

I have a friend who is currently in South Africa and is interested in an

authentic bwiti/iboga experience.  Does anyone have any advice?  Will
language be an issue?

Authentic Bwiti initiations most likely are not available in South Africa
but, in Gabon or Cameroun.  In Gabon French is just about a must unless you speak
an appropriate bantu dialect.  A Bwiti nganga’s web page can be accessed at
http://www.bwiti.com while another that “may”  represent a more english
tolerant experience can be accessed at http://www.f-i-a.org/ebando/

Keep us informed of developments.

Howard

From: Brandy Doyle <brandy@maps.org>
Subject: Re: ibogaine article edited
Date: September 30, 2003 at 1:32:12 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Cc: <epoptica@freeuk.com>

Patrick,

Thanks for the melty plant! I had one more comment on your paper that I
forgot to include. Your assessment of ibogaine’s chances in the U.S. are
pretty grim. Maybe you could add something about what it would take, in your
opinion, for it get accepted. Maybe discuss the possibility of non-profit
development, for instance.

I gave your paper to a friend today who is trying to do an undergraduate
psychology thesis that would be a six-month or one year follow-up of
patients from the Vancouver clinic. She’s going to talk to her professor
today & brought your paper along as a reference.

No problem on the LA Weekly reference- that was just off the top of my head.

Thanks,
Brandy

On 9/30/03 1:06 PM, “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Hullo Brandy,

I have no problems with it, you did a great job editing Things and stufF.

My single IssuE is the inclusion of “LA Weekly.”  Doan’ wannit there,
think it sucked; please replace with “JAMA” which wuz a much better
ibogaine piece and did not suck.  Thanks.

Enclosed is a Melty Plant.

Will talk to Hattie, and we’ll list off some references.  The one’s that
were originally in there are now gone, since Deborah doesn’t want any of
her papers listed.  I’m sure we’ll find sumthin’ to fill up a few lines.

Best,

Patrick

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dept Health&HumanServices reply
Date: September 30, 2003 at 12:57:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

…Dr. Raub has requested that I reply directly to your inquiry.

Your letter contends that the DHHS is unaware of ibogaine and not interested in funding research with ibogaine.  This is not accurate.  DHHS has been aware of ibogaine wince the early 1990’s when Mr. Howard Lotsof brought it to our attention.  There is a variety of information concerning ibogaine available in the published literature and on the Internet, and various journals and periodicals continue to publish occasional stories on ibogaine.  Additionally, meetings were held with Mr. Howard Lotsof and Dr. Deborah Mash concerning their interest in seeking approval of ibogaine as a potential addiction treatment medication.  Subsequently, Dr. Mash received permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to conduct clinical trials of ibogaine in the United States.  To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Mash is conducting clinical research with ibogaine in St. Kitts, Netherlands Antilles.  As with all other potential medications seeking to be approved for marketing in the United States, data developed by Dr. Mash and/or other researchers or companies would of need to be submitted to the FDA in support of a New Drug Application.

Regarding U.S. Government sponsored research-funding, individuals and institutions are free to apply to the National Institutes on Health for grants to fund their projects.  A peer review process, utilizing non-federal scientists to review and evaluate all research grant proposals, determines funding priority for grants.  Each project grant application is reviewed on its own merits.  There is no policy that precludes ibogaine from this process, and indeed, over the years the National Institute on Drug Abuse has funded some grants related to ibogaine or its close chemical relatives.  For example, one researcher was funded for his attempts to modify the molecular structure of ibogaine to reduce its tremorogenic properties.  The grant process remains open and available for any individual, institution, or company wishing to propose projects concerning ibogaine.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Lee Cummings
Special Assistant to the Director,
Division of Treatment Research and Development
National Institute on Drug Abuse

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dept Health&HumanServices
Date: September 30, 2003 at 12:47:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

…Dr. Raub has requested that I reply directly to your inquiry.

Your letter contends that the DHHS is unaware of ibogaine and not interested in funding research with ibogaine.  This is not accurate.  DHHS has been aware of ibogaine wince the early 1990’s when Mr. Howard Lotsof brought it to our attention.  There is a variety of information concerning ibogaine available in the published literature and on the Internet, and various journals and periodicals continue to publish occasional stories on ibogaine.  Additionally, meetings were held with Mr. Howard Lotsof and Dr. Deborah Mash concerning their interest in seeking approval of ibogaine as a potential addiction treatment medication.  Subsequently, Dr. Mash received permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to conduct clinical trials of ibogaine in the United States.  To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Mash is conducting clinical research with ibogaine in St. Kitts, Netherlands Antilles.  As with all other potential medications seeking to be approved for marketing in the United States, data developed by Dr. Mash and/or other researchers or companies would of need to be submitted to the FDA in support of a New Drug Application.

Regarding U.S. Government sponsored research-funding, individuals and institutions are free to apply to the National Institutes on Health for grants to fund their projects.  A peer review process, utilizing non-federal scientists to review and evaluate all research grant proposals, determines funding priority for grants.  Each project grant application is reviewed on its own merits.  There is no policy that precludes ibogaine from this process, and indeed, over the years the National Institute on Drug Abuse has funded some grants related to ibogaine or its close chemical relatives.  For example, one researcher was funded for his attempts to modify the molecular structure of ibogaine to reduce its tremorogenic properties.  the grant process remains open and available for any individual, institution, or company wishing to propose projects concerning ibogaine.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Lee Cummings
Special Assistant to the Director,
Division of Treatment Research and Development
National Institute on Drug Abuse

From: peter moore <petermooremd@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] hi…
Date: September 30, 2003 at 12:42:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi,

I just joined this list, I was hoping someone here
would know what happened to the calyx list- it doesn’t
seem to be operating anymore,

thanks,
Peter Moore

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] FWD – MDMA Research
Date: September 30, 2003 at 12:30:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

——– Original Message ——–
Subject:        MDMA Research
Date:   Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:31:25 EDT
From:   Julie Holland, M.D. <jholland@INCH.COM>
Reply-To:       jholland@inch.com
To:     ADD_MED@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

Please post this anywhere you think there may be users of Ecstasy (MDMA)
or clinicians who come into contact with them.

It is recruitment information for a study being done at Columbia, by a
well-respected neuroimaging group, led by Marc Laruelle.

Research Volunteers: Earn up to $700

Healthy male and female CLUB DRUG USERS (ages 18-55) needed for brain
imaging scans. Live for 5 days on a research unit at the New York State
Psychiatric Institute/Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center. Call  212-568-6850
for more information.

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] guide in africa?
Date: September 30, 2003 at 12:06:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a friend who is currently in South Africa and is intersted in an authentic bwiti/iboga experience.  Does anyone have any advice?  Will language be an issue?

Randy

_________________________________________________________________

From: “GanjaCat” <ganjacat@ganjacat.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: September 30, 2003 at 6:59:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

do you suppose this little girl is “sick”?
Peace,
Preston

Damned right she is!
Supporting the ‘Coka-Cola’ conglomerate like that she needs treatment,
fast.
ESPECIALLY if it was a plastic bottle!

Respect
GeeCee

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Revised ibogaine agenda San Francisco CSAM meeting
Date: September 30, 2003 at 6:34:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Revised ibogaine agenda San Francisco CSAM meeting

http://www.ibogaine.org/csam/html

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] need advise
Date: September 30, 2003 at 5:17:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jocy,

If you are interested in Ayahuasca, there is a small community of 25 or so people who are
exploring ayahuasca in the Santo Daime tradition. There is more info here:
http://www.geocities.com/ceudocaribe/noticias.htm

-Sandra

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From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Plan Columbia
Date: September 30, 2003 at 4:13:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just saw a great film at the Vancouver International Film Fest:

http://www.plancolumbia.org  …………check it….

_______________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class
Date: September 29, 2003 at 8:08:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

do you suppose this little girl is “sick”?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jack R. Lebowitz” <jack@netspace.org>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Australia: Girl, 5, Makes Bong in Class

I just hawked and posted this item to MAP (a friend e-mailed it to me), I
don’t know what more you can say then:

GIRL, 5, MAKES BONG IN CLASS

A five-year-old [Northern] Territory [Australia] girl shocked teachers
when
she showed her class how to make a bong out of a Coke bottle during a
“show
and tell” session.

The incident took place at a primary school in Darwin’s northern suburbs.

The revelation comes amid mounting concerns over drug use among Territory
primary school students.

At least two instances have been reported to the Education Department of
children aged between five and 12 being caught with drugs at school.

In one case the drug was amphetamine.  Teachers have indicated this may be
the tip of the iceberg.

“The little girl showing how to make a bong was the most in-your-face
example of drug culture among primary school students I’ve heard of,” one
teacher said.

“It’s not unheard of that primary school children will be found with drugs
at school,” the teacher said.

“Usually it’s just a bit of dope _ they’ve probably nicked it from their
mum’s purse and brought it along to show off.

“I’ve never heard of dealing at a primary school here.

<snip>

Continues: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n1485.a02.html
Newshawk: How to be a MAP Newshawk – www.mapinc.org/hawk.htm
Pubdate: Mon, 29 Sep 2003
Source: Northern Territory News (Australia)
Copyright: 2003 Northern Territory News
Contact: ntnmail@ntn.newsltd.com.au
Website: http://ntnews.news.com.au/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/283
Author: Edith Bevin

J

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
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From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] need advise
Date: September 29, 2003 at 11:31:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie or Tammy,
In Venezuela doesn´t exist methadone . Neether my son wanted to take it when he was in other country before. In this country thehe is not much help for drug users, and the risk is high to die because of purity of heroin. Many of his friends already died of overdose. We think Ibogaine is the only help and therapy working, another problem is there is no work , so if he gets clean and want to do something for living, its a problem here too. We are loocking about how to get in ibogaine in a cheepest way but with med supervition. There is Ayauaska too from the amazon, we are trying to learn about it too.
thanks for your interest.
I hope you luck and take care a lot.
regards
jocy

——-Mensaje original——-

De: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Fecha: Lunes, 29 de Septiembre de 2003 08:48:47 a.
A: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Asunto: Re: [ibogaine] need advise

Hi Jocy, My name is Tammy and I am also an addict. I have tried many times to get clean using 12 step programs and total abstinence but it never worked. The only thing that has worked for me is Methadone. I have been ‘clean’ on Methadone for 6+ years.
I, too, would like to try Ibogaine but because of cost of travel and then once there, the cost of Ibogaine therapy is keeping me from trying it.
If this is also a problem for you, I would suggest a Methadone clinic.
I personally would love to hear what comes about with your son.
Callie
_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Pahhful stuff
Date: September 29, 2003 at 11:58:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What say we all just storm the gates and start the revolution?
Novus Ordo Disfacere!

To pinch and tweak a phrase, Get your hearts and minds there and your
ass will follow.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including attachments, is for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privleged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

From: Douglas Greene <douggreene@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…
Date: September 29, 2003 at 11:19:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana wrote:

Ethan works for Soros, BTW.

I think the Alliance is no longer affiliated with Soros.  They moved out of the OSI building, for sure.

But H.T., as I said, was not intended by its founder Tom Forcade to be a pot magazine, and that’s what the argument is about. Hager became editor-in-chief & turned it into one two or three years  after that initial ibo article. (Which was an improvement on centerfolds of coke). In the past 10 years they’ve kinda stopped writing about ibo, cause DPA, NORML and the Kennedys circled the wagons in support of the status quo, which included methadone, clean needles, and heroin trials…but not Ibogaine.

Times and personnel change.  Valerie is now their new news editor, and Bloom seemed very receptive to the angle on an ibo story I pitched him last week.  Let’s see what happens.  It’s clear that they needed to shift the focus of the magazine to something broader, if for nothing more tan commercial reasons.

Doug/cnw

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Jay Statzer [ibogaine] Fw: an endnote
Date: September 29, 2003 at 10:45:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jay Statzer wrote >Only Preston would try to
obscure the division by claiming he’s “a user of
both pot and opiates” when any addict I talk to
tells me pot counteracts heroin and is intolerable
when in withdrawal. From his description of his pot
use he doesn’t use it much lately, maybe it’s just a
matter of personal preference that has him going to
the needle instead each day?<

Ahhh, good morning all.
I don’t think I ever wrote anything at all about how “pot counteracts heroin
and is intolerable when in withdrawal” actually.
But with this in mind, I do remember kicking in London and having people
tell me they’d “never smoke hash/pot” while in withdrawal as the smoking
made them more aware of the kicking sensations.
I agree sometimes. But not always. And for ME (as I can only speak for
myself and my own experience here) I find that smoking or eating pot/hash
usually helps(ed), but not always, when kicking. And it most certainly does
NOT counteract my opiates (NOT heroin either btw) in any way, shape or form-
if anything it most certainly does help with the pain even more than were I
using just pot or just opiates. I don’t know what addicts you’ve been
talking to, but you’ve not spoken to enough of them.
So, perhaps I’m a weirdo opiate using pot head, but you’ve really put
your foot in your mouth with the “he doesn’t use it much lately” comment, as
it is so far from my reality tunnel that all I can do is laugh very loudly
(and risk waking my beautiful gal) and shake my head in wonder at the
amazingly cocky silliness of this part of your note.

From his description of his pot
use he doesn’t use it much lately, maybe it’s just a
matter of personal preference that has him going to
the needle instead each day? <

LOL, welllll, I think you’ve misread me.
I’m a seriouly devoted pothead.
Serious, never ending pain has me using opiates on a daily basis, gladly and
willingly.
My enjoyment of pot has me smoking most every day too.
I like ’em both a lot. And they both help me cope with my life.
Imagine that- I don’t fit into YOUR reality tunnel I guess.

The convenience of
getting a legal high has demonstrated in him the
reason why methadone won’t solve the demand
reduction formula.<

I’m not sure I understand this here, the “demonstrated in him the reason why
methadone won’t solve the demand reduction formula” bit. Please clarify, as
I really don’t understand what you mean.

I wonder if Preston really thinks
he can never stop shooting up? How can he? No need
to now! He can go on for a lifetime using up clinic
space, taking a place away from a junkie who can’t
get into treatment and out of the street market.<

What? Taking up clinic space? Who’s taking up clinic space? Not me, that’s
for sure. Now I’m really confused, both at the substance of this bit, and
the haughty, angry tone. Why are you so upset sounding? You’re really
sounding silly to me here, at least in the bits I can understand.

The
self indulgence of it is so disgusting. Only these
complacent methadone addicts are so self-indulgent
and yet so jealous and negative toward the
reformers.<

What are you talking about? Who is sounding jealous and negative here? And I
most certainly am NOT ever negative towards most reformers, (unless I think
of them as assholes) as I consider myself a reformer, as do most of the
people who know me. I’m not on methadone either.

No pot activist wants to
admit to being in the same camp as the gangstas but
the strong ones understand and address the big
picture in their thinking. <

Well, maybe I’m not in the same camp as any gangstas (sic) but I do admit to
being a legalizer, all the way across the board, for adults anyway.

There is no need to legalize
addictive drugs and there is a great need to
legalize cannabis for all it’s uses. <

Beg to differ. The prohibition of any addictive drugs (and non-addictive
too) only makes things worse, all across the board. So in my own humble
opinion, I don’t agree. There is a need to legalize all drugs currently
illegal, with some regulatory apparatus in place as we have with alcohol and
tobacco. Hell, legalize even the addictive drugs, we remove much of the
profit margin and control issues of those who like the way the war empowers
them, shreds out Constitution and human rights and lines their pockets with
drugwar funding.
Anyway, this was a long, angry sounding note from Jay, and I am at a
loss as to why I was singled out- sounds like some kind of jealousy, but not
mine.
And I completely agree with Carla about the “patronizing attitude and
total ignorance” on the part of many pot reformers. Why oh why must there be
such intolerance and hatered spewed about other people, by these angry ones
seem to insist on believing opiate users are not as good or sane as those
who don’t use opiates?
Blah, blah, blahbidy blah.
Peace to you all, and have a great day.
(btw, there’s an interesting thing on C-Span 2 right now, 10:40AM Monday,
about international drug trafficking and organized crime.)
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: an endnote

I am really not into arguing. I don’t like to argue at
all and I don’t do it on this list very often. I think
I’ve been guilty of getting into a flame war only once
which was about the black women being paid to have
abortions debate a long time ago.

I replied to what Marc Emery wrote before and very
much appreciated Sandra’s reply to me. I then skipped
over Dana Beal’s messages but all of this keeps on
coming.

My question is I think for Patrick. Why are you of all
people acting like the cannabis apologist? You wrote a
funny message which I liked reading, it’s classic you
😉 But you didn’t seriously answer anything at all.
Aren’t you offended by the patronizing obnoxious
attitude of all this? Why are you of all people
rewriting offensive statements made by the cannabis
movement to make “hard drug users” accept it? That one
letter in the libertarian blog keeps coming to my
mind. Why are you doing this? I don’t understand.

I understand that the medical marijuana movement is
doing things to help ibogaine and I keep on keeping
that in mind but every single time I read another one
of these messages my honest and emotional response is
wanting to kick that person in the balls for their
patronizing attitude and total ignorance!

Every message keeps stressing how little any of them
understand about hard drugs or drug addiction! Jay
Stetzer is very obviously a smart person who knows
nothing, let me repeat that ###nothing### about what
it’s like to be a junkie. But all of you keep saying
and writing all this. Who are you talking to each
other or the poor lost sick junkies? If you’re talking
to each other arent you already convinced? If you’re
talking to the sicker then everyone else is junkies,
all youre doing is making people mad. I’m offended and
I’m avery tolerant person! I think! 🙂

Sorry I had to say this, these letters keep coming to
this list and every time I think I’ll swallow it and
move on, another one of them comes.

Carla B

— Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net> wrote:
Please write an endnote
—–Original Message—–
From: Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net>
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: an endnote

Dana,
The thread of discussion you have sent me is
puzzling. I’m not sure where to begin in commenting
on it. The concept of pot users being in the same
condition as junk poisoned people, just acting
holier than thou? That junkies aren’t sick because
AmeriKKKan society is suffering from decades of
militaristic and materialistic mentality disorders?
It’s not what is in the thoughts of addicts that the
drug warriors are policing, it’s what people are
putting into their bodies. Addicts are putting
artificial body chemistry imposters into their
bodies and the opiate users must do so every day.
Pot people have no such need. Those with full blown
endorphin related addictions need to ingest their
artificial endorphin imposters in order to feel
pleasure at all. Pot people have no such need.
Addicts are often people who want to numb an
emotional pain. Some pot people have similar life
experiences and they may seek out and discover that
same numbness. When they go on an become addicts,
they wish they had stayed with pot. Some use pot to
overcome an early-onset addiction, this is not drug
replacement but the gradual corrective effect of
pot’s triggering of elevated Melotonin combined with
a new lifestyle regime that excludes association
with addicts. There are obvious lines separating pot
from addictive drugs. If someone is into shooting up
but doesn’t have withdrawal or cravings yet, God
bless ’em but they aren’t in deep enough to speak
about addictive drugs yet. Only Preston would try to
obscure the division by claiming he’s “a user of
both pot and opiates” when any addict I talk to
tells me pot counteracts heroin and is intolerable
when in withdrawal. From his description of his pot
use he doesn’t use it much lately, maybe it’s just a
matter of personal preference that has him going to
the needle instead each day? The convenience of
getting a legal high has demonstrated in him the
reason why methadone won’t solve the demand
reduction formula. I wonder if Preston really thinks
he can never stop shooting up? How can he? No need
to now! He can go on for a lifetime using up clinic
space, taking a place away from a junkie who can’t
get into treatment and out of the street market. The
self indulgence of it is so disgusting. Only these
complacent methadone addicts are so self-indulgent
and yet so jealous and negative toward the
reformers. Then I remember meeting Keith Stroup at
the Seattle Hempfest this year. All his organization
wants is to have their own high decriminalized. They
have nothing to offer the rest of the nation in
return for his requests. When Cures not Wars has a
rally in New York and wants to have an Ibogaine
protest area included Keith insists that it must be
a bait and switch tactic against the pot protesters
that come to the rally and somehow all talk of
cannabis liberation will not happen. Three years and
several hundred rallies later he still lays this
lame, empty rap on me. Here is a divisive man who
spitefully uses the state chapters of his
organization to hassle and negate the effectiveness
of an organization dedicated not only to Keith’s
high (assuming he’s not snorting the
Texas-sugar-booger anymore) but to ending the drug
war in the only peaceful means that AmeriKKKan
politics will tolerate -effective drug treatment for
demand reduction. There is no need to legalize
addictive drugs and there is a great need to
legalize cannabis for all it’s uses. Now I’m not
going to elaborate on my theory of what Mr. Stroup’s
true motives are today but the point it is that yes,
some pot activists will not work with reform groups
outside of their focus and when NORML does it, it is
only for their own benefit or to please their
outside financial backers. NORML is the only
organization that refuses to play well with others.
Outside of that the cannabis movement is united even
while dedicated to manning individual fronts in the
drug war. Outside of DPA, and a handful of staunch
anti-prohibitionists, the hard drug front is mainly
manned by the street gangs. No pot activist wants to
admit to being in the same camp as the gangstas but
the strong ones understand and address the big
picture in their thinking. The fact is it’s the same
cops who sting addicted buyers, arrest pushers
and/or rob higher level ones, break into crack
houses, round up homeless addicts, drive OD’s to
emergency rooms and bust a lot of petty ante
sellers. They are the same cops who make pretext
stops of cars to sniff for smoke, break into grow
rooms, brutalize medical pot patients, arrest
college kids with a couple joints, infiltrate pot
distribution rings and bust a lot of petty ante
sellers. And wouldn’t you just know that they are
the same cops who monitor and even intimidate pot
protest events, investigate event organizers,
infiltrate reform organizations, bust activist
leaders and make a lot of petty ante busts at
rallies.
The enemy is the same but the different fronts of
our side of this Civil War on drugs need to be
manned in different ways. In the case of cannabis it
is a diplomatic effort to gain market separation,
remove the lies and win on the merits of the truth
of cannabis’ safety and usefulness. The goal is to
remove criminal penalties against all forms of
cannabis. In the case of hard drug addiction a
higher caliber ammunition should be used to blast
through the stonewall against harm-reduction, and to
expose government and intelligence community
complicity in creating a massive addiction problem.
Against these fortified bunkers of the DEA, NIDA and
FDA, ibogaine is a high explosive that can be used
to shame the bureaucrats into giving us drug policy
based on demand reduction instead of interdiction.
There will always be cases of addicts who will do
time but addiction should be reduced to an
aggravating circumstance for another crime rather
than a crime punishable in itself. How the
anti-prohibitionists propose to solve the addiction
problem by legalizing hard drugs is still a mystery
to me. There is just no room for a legal addictive
drug market when you consider the examples shown by
cigarettes and Prozac, Paxil, et cetera, ad nausium.
Just as ibogaine will naturally make methadone
obsolete, pot will make addictive drugs obsolete,
given the chance.

As for addiction: The most powerful anti-drug
education, sadly, occurs after the fact of addiction
is certain. That is when the addict realizes the
loss of free will, when there is no “Just say no”
option. If this addict can compare that to the
non-addicted state then drug education becomes
strong enough to motivate a change in lifestyle and
value systems. Now if the addiction itself is still
active this person is just a relapse waiting to
happen, but if the natural chemical outputs in the
brain are returned to normal, you have someone who
is free bodily and also mentally prepared to repair
the psychological aspects of the addictive
lifestyle/personality. One beauty of ibogaine is how
it allows a rapid A-B comparison, and with maximum
contrast. A patient is in withdrawal pains and then
awakes cured of pain and craving. Weaning a person
free of addiction fails to give that comparison and
only clears the path for relapse or re-addiction.
What does it mean that ibogaine doesn’t work for
“marijuana addiction?” Two things come to mind.
First is that pot smoking creates a much greater
response in the release of Melotonin than in any
other neural pathway and gets only slight,
second-handed responses from dopamine and endorphin
pathways. Since Melatonin basically IS ibogaine,
which IS tryptomine, pot smoking is anti-addictive.
You can’t help but see the anti-hard-drug
implications of that. Secondly, cannabis should
truly be classified as an hallucinogen, along with
all the other entheogens and other trippy stuff that
we have always known don’t cause addiction or
withdrawal.
As for the marijuana movement: Just as pot people
try not to associate with other user groups. NORML
avoids or ignores the big picture of the drug war.
We used to say there was no Natl. Organization for
the Reform of Heroin Law, but that was before Drug
Policy Forum exploded into the media debate. DPF
lobbied in favor of all drug legalization and
methadone as well as any harm reduction idea that
could keep an addict alive long enough to make it
into and through the methadone clinic waiting lists.
DPF apparently thought cannabis issues were in good
hands with NORML and placed no emphasis on cannabis
liberation. Now reformed as the Drug Policy
Alliance, it is basically the same organization with
recreational and medical cannabis added to the
mission statement. The pot activists are not in good
hands with NORML after all, they would do better to
join the MPP. But if pot were legal today the drug
war would still be going on tomorrow. That’s why
Cures not Wars promotes separating the cannabis
culture from the battlefield and compassionately
addressing the user demand side of the drug trade
first by curing addiction with ibogaine. Why
perpetuate an addict with methadone in order to
function a whole day when ibogaine will allow a
former-addict to function for a lifetime? Addiction
is not diabetes!! As a borderline myself, with lots
of diabetics in my family, I personally resent that
comparison. Addiction is man made and can be
corrected. When the day comes that a diabetes is
curable, how many will prefer to be injecting the
rest of their lives!?

God forgive Amerikkka,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI

From: eldot <eldot@mail15.com>
Date: 2003/09/06 Sat PM 09:12:52 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
http://www.drugpolicy.org

Show me where in their mission statement it says “we
want to legalize crack”?

The DPA is for ending the “war on drugs” not
legalizing crack. I
am really sick and tired of all the entheogen people
and potheads
who adopt a holier then thou attitude how what they
are doing is
ok and the poor sick “hard drug” users should be
saved from themselves.

The stereotypes of junkies as toothless unwashed
losers are
promoted by most of the cannabis reform movement,
medical
marijuana anything else you want to call it.

I don’t see any of you doing anything except
dividing into
factions and it is all the pot calling the kettle
black.

End the war on drugs.

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then
any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that
matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans
instead of this
stereotyping.

More news is that while I don’t have anything at all
good to say
about Bush, the war on drugs got no better under
Clinton. It’s a
two party system. The libertarians, marijuana party,
green party,
any party you want to call it, are not going to be
winning any
presidential elections.

————-

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>

Date: 2003/09/07 Sun PM 01:24:46 CDT

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with
iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had
very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male
parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much
of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision
making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships
have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose
death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and
are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>

Date: 2003/09/07 Sun PM 08:36:04 CDT

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal

This is a straw-man argument. It means you can
think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly
qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:

I’d rather be a junky than a straight,
non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko-
though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board
member/NYTimes reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.<<<<

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com >
To: < ibogaine@mindvox.com >
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal

Marc Emery wrote >Pot users are not immersed in
this lifestyle and are not
of this experience.<

Hey there Marc,
While I find your take on opiate addicts
interesting, in that you’ve
actually got experience with a set of addicts on
which to base your
conclusion, I can’t say I find your sweeping
assessment of pot users and
opiate addicts to really be that scientific nor
convincing at all.
I know way too many pot users who also
had/have their share of fucked
up
life experiences. I also know a fairly large
number of opiate users AND
addicts who so far as I know had idyllic lives
and childhoods with both
parents around for the entire time.
As a user of both pot and opiates, I
personally find eldot’s premise
to
be pretty much spot on. Of course, I can really
only speak for myself, but
it seems to me that by basing your view on just
the 28 addicts you’ve
treated over 12 months, I don’t think that even
you have  the total
picture.
Not nearly.
Seems to me that were we to remove the
criminalization and sterotyping
of opiates and the users thereof, we’d remove a
lot, if not most, of what
turmoil can currently be caused by some forms of
opiate use- speaking from
a
legal, prescribed point of view of course.
It really is amazing to me the difference in
my own opiate use and
life
nowadays, not having to worry about cops busting
in and arresting me for
using opiates, not having to worry about what
I’m buying, not having to
worry about “oh, am I gonna get caught using,”
not having to troll the
streets day in night out for my medication, not
having to worry about
getting ripped off by hoodlums or beaten by
unscrupulous dealers, or
beaten
up by nasty bigoted street punks basing their
violent prejudices on
prohibitionistic claptrap. (It’s ok in this day
and age to be violent
towards others, but heaven forbid we allow
others to use opiates. This
seems
to be a “normal, non-sick” point of view today-
not saying that’s your
position at all- I’m just saying.) But I use
opiates every single day, in
fairly strong doses. Am I somehow less sick than
streetbound heroin
junkies?
(Well, actually, getting right down to it, yeah,
maybe I am, but not
because
of using opiates, but rather as a result of some
of those aforementioned
life experiences.)
While I can relate to some if not most of
the addicts you’ve
apparently
experienced at Iboga House, I don’t think of
myself as more or less “sick”
than anyone else I know- as a matter of fact,
looking around the world
today, at all the people who supposedly AREN’T
using opiates but find
nothing wrong with dropping bombs on foreigners
and not supplying health
care for all their fellow citizens, well, I’m a
lot less sick than many
“normal” non-druggy/opiate using types, even as
physically battered and
tattered as I am.
I’d rather be a junky than a straight,
non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko-
though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to
be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board
member/NYTimes
reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.
It’s interesting to me what constitutes to
some people well balanced
citizenship and what constitutes sick.
Again, I’m not saying that’s your view Marc,
but it is the overarching
view of society at large here in the US at least
so far as I can see. And
while this may not be your view, you do have
some personal reasons for not
caring for opiates, no? Besides, I think you’re
wrong Marc in assuming and
flat out asserting that opiate addicts are
“sicker” than anyone else
simply because of their opiate use.
Anyway, thanks for listening. It’s a
beautiful day here in the
Apple, and I’m sitting in front of my computer
working. Hmmm.
Wait a minute- a regular user of (LEGAL but
STRONG) opiates being
responsible and even clear headed? Is that
possible? What gives!?
(and on one more note, I can personally say that
there have been times
where
I’ve smoked some pot or other that left me
pretty much incapable of doing
any kind of work that involved clear thinking.
As much as I love pot, it
can
leave me feeling befuddled sometimes, as can
opiates sometimes too but not
in nearly the same way, personally speaking of
course.)
Peace,
Preston

—————–

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: 2003/09/08 Mon AM 11:27:34 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of
“childhood traumas relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a
statistical way.  I might
suggest that in your screening process you intake
some patients who had quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be
interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two
groups.

Howard

————

From:
“Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

Date:
2003/09/08 Mon PM 12:52:27 CDT

To:
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Subject:
Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly
qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:<

I think it is a matter of perspective, yes indeed
Marc, but I don’t think
that makes it a strawman argument in the
slightest, as am I not in the least
bit implying that all use equals abuse, of any
substance legal or illegal at
all.
As I hope is obvious.
I am disagreeing with you that all heroin/opiate
use is dehumanizing, or
equals “sickness” for sure.
I’m not at all in disagreement with you (I
presume) that ibogaine should
be a legal option for those who wish not to use
opiates and want to
stop/kick painlessly, in a way that apparently
offers a lot more than simple
detox too for that matter.
Peace,
Preston
—————

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Date: 2003/09/08 Mon PM 12:58:04 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] those damn junkies

<rant>
a vast majority of the problems associated with
addiction are thanks to
prohibition. (ok, understating the obvious) Add to
that the history of covert
ops of flooding america’s poor urban and rural
communities with massive amounts
of narcotics in order to keep the “undesirables”
(in the ruling elites eyes)
under control. Would be community leaders and
voices of the people supressed by
the constant, uncontrolable urge for the next fix.
This has been repeated
throughout history across the globe.

Unfortunatley (or fortunately, depending on if
you’re THE MAN) addiction knows
no boundaries. It doesn’t matter if your father
abandoned you at a young age or
not or if you sustained an injury where heavy
narcotics become more than
prescribed by the doctor. The spirit of opium is a
strong and seductive force
to reckon with, regardless of childhood trauma or
the lack of. I’ve encountered
many addicts who came from wonderful families who
just liked to get high and
got caught up in it.

But drugs are an integral part of a multi billion
dollar indistry of the rehab
and prison system here in amerika. which results a
very few people getting
actual help in treatment (bacause the odds are
like less than 10-1 that you
“fail”) while many other addicts go on to repeated
incarceration and forced
labor.

Its not the drugs (that are the problem), its the
prohibition laws and
society’s views of the “lowly evil” addict that
are the problem.
decriminilization and de-stigmatization are a very
large part of the solution.

</rant>

~dh

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] need advise
Date: September 29, 2003 at 8:47:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jocy, My name is Tammy and I am also an addict. I have tried many times to get clean using 12 step programs and total abstinence but it never worked. The only thing that has worked for me is Methadone. I have been ‘clean’ on Methadone for 6+ years.
I, too, would like to try Ibogaine but because of cost of travel and then once there, the cost of Ibogaine therapy is keeping me from trying it.
If this is also a problem for you, I would suggest a Methadone clinic.
I personally would love to hear what comes about with your son.
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Sepcial Prjoect – Scenod Rqueset – Hlep Rqeuetsed
Date: September 29, 2003 at 12:33:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear lsit,

In Kpeenig whit Itnerent spllenig requriemtens:

Hnivag renectly sumbitetd a reqsuet for dtanoions for Dora Weiner Projects,
http://www.doraweiner.eastwest.html it had jsut cmee to our atnettion taht we
necgleted to rqeuest fnduing for a spceial procejt.  This will be ptarcuipation
in the Durg Uerss Cofnenerce ssonpored by the Diansh drug urses gruop of
BrugerForeningen taht wlil tkee pclae in Cpohenagen Ocboter 31 and Nobvemer 1,
2003.  We hvae had indictions of inretest in ibgoaine from some of the cofnernece
patripicants and thnik this wloud be an eexcptinoal oorpptnuity to lrean form
our Epeouron coeallgues and pivorde inmorfation on ibogaine.  Obviously, the
Dora Weiner Foundation will go to any length to get you to donate funds
particularly to allow attendance at the Invitational conference on drug user activism
which we consider most important as users have always been at the center of
the cyclone when it comes to treatment and treatment rights to have or have
not.  I have been invited to make a special presentation on ibogaine and view
this as quite an honor.

The Dora Weiner Foundation is seeking $3,000.00 in tax deductible
contributions to allow participation in the BrugerForeningen conference.  This will be
the third of three conferences that DWF will have the opportunity to participate
in during the months of October and November 2003.  The California Society of
Addiction Medicine Conference and the Drug Policy Alliance Conference are
already referenced at http://www.ibogaine.org/csam.html and
http://www.ibogaine.org/dpa.html

Donations to the Dora Weiner Foundation may be sent to our address listed
below. Checks and money orders should be made payable to Dora Weiner Foundation.
Donations from countries other than the United States should be in the form of
checks or money orders in US dollars drawn on US banks.

Donations should be mail to:

Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA

Thank you for your immediate support to allow us to attend these conferences.

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
*************************************

The following information was obtained from
http://www.methadone.org/upcoming_conferences.html
It is the second conference listed on that page.

BrugerForeningen
Danish Drug User’s Union

L   S   D Landelijk Steunpunt Druggebruikers

 

MOVING FORWARD

Invitational conference on drug user activism

International Drug User Day
2003, October 31st/November 1st
Copenhagen, Denmark

Invitational conference
The Danish Drug Users Union “BrugerForeningen” and the Dutch National
Interest Group of Drug Users “LSD” proudly announce an upcoming meeting on drug user
activism. The gathering will take place to mark both the International Drug
User Day and the 10th anniversary of BrugerForeningen.
Due to the character of the event, the number of participants is limited to
70 persons.
The organizers therefore take the lead in inviting those user activists that
are expected to contribute to, and benefit from, the event. The language will
be English. The budget is limited, and so participants are asked to cover all
costs related to attending.
Program
The program on Friday October 31st includes training sessions on working with
the media and on building a network of allies. In addition, 3 workshops are
planned around the following topics:

*   Workshop A:
Drug User activism in the Digital Age (introductions on PalTalk, list
servers, press releases etc)

*   Workshop B:
Obstacles and challenges to user organisations (success criteria, ways of
achieving your goals,keeping workers motivated etc)

*   Workshop C:
Lifting activism to a professional level

Please not that both trainings and workshops are repeated during the day.
A cyber cafe will be available throughout both days and a programme of videos
and movies will be shown.
Saturday November 1st will be given over to various sightseeing trips, e.g.
to Christiania. It will also be possible to arrange smaller meetings and
further discussions at the BrugerForeningen.
Registration
Deadline for registration is September 15th. Please contact
registration_idud2003@hotmail.com for a registration form.
Registration forms returned after this date will not guarantee a place.
Medications
It is possible to bring Methadone into Denmark with the relevant paperwork,
and so those who are currently in a substitution program (methadone, for
example) are asked to ensure that they bring enough with them to last for the
duration of their stay. For those who have difficulties in this regard, we can, as a
last resort, make arrangements for provision here. In the latter case, please
let us know as far in advance as possible.
Note
This year’s celebration of International Drug User Day will be different from
previous events organized in the Netherlands. We need to stress that during
the daytime, people are expected to take part in the various training and
workshop sessions.
On Saturday evening a party will be held at BrugerForeningen.
Download Registration Form
Information
Further information, such as names of speakers and trainers and a list of
guests will become available by the end of September. In case you need more
information before, please contact either Joergen Kjaer (BF) at
jk@brugerforeningen.dk or Has Cornelissen (LSD) at hashas@planet.nl BrugerForeningen

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: an endnote
Date: September 28, 2003 at 9:33:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am really not into arguing. I don’t like to argue at
all and I don’t do it on this list very often. I think
I’ve been guilty of getting into a flame war only once
which was about the black women being paid to have
abortions debate a long time ago.

I replied to what Marc Emery wrote before and very
much appreciated Sandra’s reply to me. I then skipped
over Dana Beal’s messages but all of this keeps on
coming.

My question is I think for Patrick. Why are you of all
people acting like the cannabis apologist? You wrote a
funny message which I liked reading, it’s classic you
😉 But you didn’t seriously answer anything at all.
Aren’t you offended by the patronizing obnoxious
attitude of all this? Why are you of all people
rewriting offensive statements made by the cannabis
movement to make “hard drug users” accept it? That one
letter in the libertarian blog keeps coming to my
mind. Why are you doing this? I don’t understand.

I understand that the medical marijuana movement is
doing things to help ibogaine and I keep on keeping
that in mind but every single time I read another one
of these messages my honest and emotional response is
wanting to kick that person in the balls for their
patronizing attitude and total ignorance!

Every message keeps stressing how little any of them
understand about hard drugs or drug addiction! Jay
Stetzer is very obviously a smart person who knows
nothing, let me repeat that ###nothing### about what
it’s like to be a junkie. But all of you keep saying
and writing all this. Who are you talking to each
other or the poor lost sick junkies? If you’re talking
to each other arent you already convinced? If you’re
talking to the sicker then everyone else is junkies,
all youre doing is making people mad. I’m offended and
I’m avery tolerant person! I think! 🙂

Sorry I had to say this, these letters keep coming to
this list and every time I think I’ll swallow it and
move on, another one of them comes.

Carla B

— Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net> wrote:
Please write an endnote
—–Original Message—–
From: Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net>
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: an endnote

Dana,
The thread of discussion you have sent me is
puzzling. I’m not sure where to begin in commenting
on it. The concept of pot users being in the same
condition as junk poisoned people, just acting
holier than thou? That junkies aren’t sick because
AmeriKKKan society is suffering from decades of
militaristic and materialistic mentality disorders?
It’s not what is in the thoughts of addicts that the
drug warriors are policing, it’s what people are
putting into their bodies. Addicts are putting
artificial body chemistry imposters into their
bodies and the opiate users must do so every day.
Pot people have no such need. Those with full blown
endorphin related addictions need to ingest their
artificial endorphin imposters in order to feel
pleasure at all. Pot people have no such need.
Addicts are often people who want to numb an
emotional pain. Some pot people have similar life
experiences and they may seek out and discover that
same numbness. When they go on an become addicts,
they wish they had stayed with pot. Some use pot to
overcome an early-onset addiction, this is not drug
replacement but the gradual corrective effect of
pot’s triggering of elevated Melotonin combined with
a new lifestyle regime that excludes association
with addicts. There are obvious lines separating pot
from addictive drugs. If someone is into shooting up
but doesn’t have withdrawal or cravings yet, God
bless ’em but they aren’t in deep enough to speak
about addictive drugs yet. Only Preston would try to
obscure the division by claiming he’s “a user of
both pot and opiates” when any addict I talk to
tells me pot counteracts heroin and is intolerable
when in withdrawal. From his description of his pot
use he doesn’t use it much lately, maybe it’s just a
matter of personal preference that has him going to
the needle instead each day? The convenience of
getting a legal high has demonstrated in him the
reason why methadone won’t solve the demand
reduction formula. I wonder if Preston really thinks
he can never stop shooting up? How can he? No need
to now! He can go on for a lifetime using up clinic
space, taking a place away from a junkie who can’t
get into treatment and out of the street market. The
self indulgence of it is so disgusting. Only these
complacent methadone addicts are so self-indulgent
and yet so jealous and negative toward the
reformers. Then I remember meeting Keith Stroup at
the Seattle Hempfest this year. All his organization
wants is to have their own high decriminalized. They
have nothing to offer the rest of the nation in
return for his requests. When Cures not Wars has a
rally in New York and wants to have an Ibogaine
protest area included Keith insists that it must be
a bait and switch tactic against the pot protesters
that come to the rally and somehow all talk of
cannabis liberation will not happen. Three years and
several hundred rallies later he still lays this
lame, empty rap on me. Here is a divisive man who
spitefully uses the state chapters of his
organization to hassle and negate the effectiveness
of an organization dedicated not only to Keith’s
high (assuming he’s not snorting the
Texas-sugar-booger anymore) but to ending the drug
war in the only peaceful means that AmeriKKKan
politics will tolerate -effective drug treatment for
demand reduction. There is no need to legalize
addictive drugs and there is a great need to
legalize cannabis for all it’s uses. Now I’m not
going to elaborate on my theory of what Mr. Stroup’s
true motives are today but the point it is that yes,
some pot activists will not work with reform groups
outside of their focus and when NORML does it, it is
only for their own benefit or to please their
outside financial backers. NORML is the only
organization that refuses to play well with others.
Outside of that the cannabis movement is united even
while dedicated to manning individual fronts in the
drug war. Outside of DPA, and a handful of staunch
anti-prohibitionists, the hard drug front is mainly
manned by the street gangs. No pot activist wants to
admit to being in the same camp as the gangstas but
the strong ones understand and address the big
picture in their thinking. The fact is it’s the same
cops who sting addicted buyers, arrest pushers
and/or rob higher level ones, break into crack
houses, round up homeless addicts, drive OD’s to
emergency rooms and bust a lot of petty ante
sellers. They are the same cops who make pretext
stops of cars to sniff for smoke, break into grow
rooms, brutalize medical pot patients, arrest
college kids with a couple joints, infiltrate pot
distribution rings and bust a lot of petty ante
sellers. And wouldn’t you just know that they are
the same cops who monitor and even intimidate pot
protest events, investigate event organizers,
infiltrate reform organizations, bust activist
leaders and make a lot of petty ante busts at
rallies.
The enemy is the same but the different fronts of
our side of this Civil War on drugs need to be
manned in different ways. In the case of cannabis it
is a diplomatic effort to gain market separation,
remove the lies and win on the merits of the truth
of cannabis’ safety and usefulness. The goal is to
remove criminal penalties against all forms of
cannabis. In the case of hard drug addiction a
higher caliber ammunition should be used to blast
through the stonewall against harm-reduction, and to
expose government and intelligence community
complicity in creating a massive addiction problem.
Against these fortified bunkers of the DEA, NIDA and
FDA, ibogaine is a high explosive that can be used
to shame the bureaucrats into giving us drug policy
based on demand reduction instead of interdiction.
There will always be cases of addicts who will do
time but addiction should be reduced to an
aggravating circumstance for another crime rather
than a crime punishable in itself. How the
anti-prohibitionists propose to solve the addiction
problem by legalizing hard drugs is still a mystery
to me. There is just no room for a legal addictive
drug market when you consider the examples shown by
cigarettes and Prozac, Paxil, et cetera, ad nausium.
Just as ibogaine will naturally make methadone
obsolete, pot will make addictive drugs obsolete,
given the chance.

As for addiction: The most powerful anti-drug
education, sadly, occurs after the fact of addiction
is certain. That is when the addict realizes the
loss of free will, when there is no “Just say no”
option. If this addict can compare that to the
non-addicted state then drug education becomes
strong enough to motivate a change in lifestyle and
value systems. Now if the addiction itself is still
active this person is just a relapse waiting to
happen, but if the natural chemical outputs in the
brain are returned to normal, you have someone who
is free bodily and also mentally prepared to repair
the psychological aspects of the addictive
lifestyle/personality. One beauty of ibogaine is how
it allows a rapid A-B comparison, and with maximum
contrast. A patient is in withdrawal pains and then
awakes cured of pain and craving. Weaning a person
free of addiction fails to give that comparison and
only clears the path for relapse or re-addiction.
What does it mean that ibogaine doesn’t work for
“marijuana addiction?” Two things come to mind.
First is that pot smoking creates a much greater
response in the release of Melotonin than in any
other neural pathway and gets only slight,
second-handed responses from dopamine and endorphin
pathways. Since Melatonin basically IS ibogaine,
which IS tryptomine, pot smoking is anti-addictive.
You can’t help but see the anti-hard-drug
implications of that. Secondly, cannabis should
truly be classified as an hallucinogen, along with
all the other entheogens and other trippy stuff that
we have always known don’t cause addiction or
withdrawal.
As for the marijuana movement: Just as pot people
try not to associate with other user groups. NORML
avoids or ignores the big picture of the drug war.
We used to say there was no Natl. Organization for
the Reform of Heroin Law, but that was before Drug
Policy Forum exploded into the media debate. DPF
lobbied in favor of all drug legalization and
methadone as well as any harm reduction idea that
could keep an addict alive long enough to make it
into and through the methadone clinic waiting lists.
DPF apparently thought cannabis issues were in good
hands with NORML and placed no emphasis on cannabis
liberation. Now reformed as the Drug Policy
Alliance, it is basically the same organization with
recreational and medical cannabis added to the
mission statement. The pot activists are not in good
hands with NORML after all, they would do better to
join the MPP. But if pot were legal today the drug
war would still be going on tomorrow. That’s why
Cures not Wars promotes separating the cannabis
culture from the battlefield and compassionately
addressing the user demand side of the drug trade
first by curing addiction with ibogaine. Why
perpetuate an addict with methadone in order to
function a whole day when ibogaine will allow a
former-addict to function for a lifetime? Addiction
is not diabetes!! As a borderline myself, with lots
of diabetics in my family, I personally resent that
comparison. Addiction is man made and can be
corrected. When the day comes that a diabetes is
curable, how many will prefer to be injecting the
rest of their lives!?

God forgive Amerikkka,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI

From: eldot <eldot@mail15.com>
Date: 2003/09/06 Sat PM 09:12:52 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
http://www.drugpolicy.org

Show me where in their mission statement it says “we
want to legalize crack”?

The DPA is for ending the “war on drugs” not
legalizing crack. I
am really sick and tired of all the entheogen people
and potheads
who adopt a holier then thou attitude how what they
are doing is
ok and the poor sick “hard drug” users should be
saved from themselves.

The stereotypes of junkies as toothless unwashed
losers are
promoted by most of the cannabis reform movement,
medical
marijuana anything else you want to call it.

I don’t see any of you doing anything except
dividing into
factions and it is all the pot calling the kettle
black.

End the war on drugs.

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then
any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that
matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans
instead of this
stereotyping.

More news is that while I don’t have anything at all
good to say
about Bush, the war on drugs got no better under
Clinton. It’s a
two party system. The libertarians, marijuana party,
green party,
any party you want to call it, are not going to be
winning any
presidential elections.

————-

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>

Date: 2003/09/07 Sun PM 01:24:46 CDT

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with
iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had
very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male
parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much
of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision
making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships
have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose
death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and
are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>

Date: 2003/09/07 Sun PM 08:36:04 CDT

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal

This is a straw-man argument. It means you can
think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly
qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:

I’d rather be a junky than a straight,
non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko-
though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board
member/NYTimes reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.<<<<

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com >
To: < ibogaine@mindvox.com >
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal

Marc Emery wrote >Pot users are not immersed in
this lifestyle and are not
of this experience.<

Hey there Marc,
While I find your take on opiate addicts
interesting, in that you’ve
actually got experience with a set of addicts on
which to base your
conclusion, I can’t say I find your sweeping
assessment of pot users and
opiate addicts to really be that scientific nor
convincing at all.
I know way too many pot users who also
had/have their share of fucked
up
life experiences. I also know a fairly large
number of opiate users AND
addicts who so far as I know had idyllic lives
and childhoods with both
parents around for the entire time.
As a user of both pot and opiates, I
personally find eldot’s premise
to
be pretty much spot on. Of course, I can really
only speak for myself, but
it seems to me that by basing your view on just
the 28 addicts you’ve
treated over 12 months, I don’t think that even
you have  the total
picture.
Not nearly.
Seems to me that were we to remove the
criminalization and sterotyping
of opiates and the users thereof, we’d remove a
lot, if not most, of what
turmoil can currently be caused by some forms of
opiate use- speaking from
a
legal, prescribed point of view of course.
It really is amazing to me the difference in
my own opiate use and
life
nowadays, not having to worry about cops busting
in and arresting me for
using opiates, not having to worry about what
I’m buying, not having to
worry about “oh, am I gonna get caught using,”
not having to troll the
streets day in night out for my medication, not
having to worry about
getting ripped off by hoodlums or beaten by
unscrupulous dealers, or
beaten
up by nasty bigoted street punks basing their
violent prejudices on
prohibitionistic claptrap. (It’s ok in this day
and age to be violent
towards others, but heaven forbid we allow
others to use opiates. This
seems
to be a “normal, non-sick” point of view today-
not saying that’s your
position at all- I’m just saying.) But I use
opiates every single day, in
fairly strong doses. Am I somehow less sick than
streetbound heroin
junkies?
(Well, actually, getting right down to it, yeah,
maybe I am, but not
because
of using opiates, but rather as a result of some
of those aforementioned
life experiences.)
While I can relate to some if not most of
the addicts you’ve
apparently
experienced at Iboga House, I don’t think of
myself as more or less “sick”
than anyone else I know- as a matter of fact,
looking around the world
today, at all the people who supposedly AREN’T
using opiates but find
nothing wrong with dropping bombs on foreigners
and not supplying health
care for all their fellow citizens, well, I’m a
lot less sick than many
“normal” non-druggy/opiate using types, even as
physically battered and
tattered as I am.
I’d rather be a junky than a straight,
non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko-
though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to
be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board
member/NYTimes
reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.
It’s interesting to me what constitutes to
some people well balanced
citizenship and what constitutes sick.
Again, I’m not saying that’s your view Marc,
but it is the overarching
view of society at large here in the US at least
so far as I can see. And
while this may not be your view, you do have
some personal reasons for not
caring for opiates, no? Besides, I think you’re
wrong Marc in assuming and
flat out asserting that opiate addicts are
“sicker” than anyone else
simply because of their opiate use.
Anyway, thanks for listening. It’s a
beautiful day here in the
Apple, and I’m sitting in front of my computer
working. Hmmm.
Wait a minute- a regular user of (LEGAL but
STRONG) opiates being
responsible and even clear headed? Is that
possible? What gives!?
(and on one more note, I can personally say that
there have been times
where
I’ve smoked some pot or other that left me
pretty much incapable of doing
any kind of work that involved clear thinking.
As much as I love pot, it
can
leave me feeling befuddled sometimes, as can
opiates sometimes too but not
in nearly the same way, personally speaking of
course.)
Peace,
Preston

—————–

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: 2003/09/08 Mon AM 11:27:34 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of
“childhood traumas relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a
statistical way.  I might
suggest that in your screening process you intake
some patients who had quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be
interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two
groups.

Howard

————

From:
“Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

Date:
2003/09/08 Mon PM 12:52:27 CDT

To:
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Subject:
Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly
qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:<

I think it is a matter of perspective, yes indeed
Marc, but I don’t think
that makes it a strawman argument in the
slightest, as am I not in the least
bit implying that all use equals abuse, of any
substance legal or illegal at
all.
As I hope is obvious.
I am disagreeing with you that all heroin/opiate
use is dehumanizing, or
equals “sickness” for sure.
I’m not at all in disagreement with you (I
presume) that ibogaine should
be a legal option for those who wish not to use
opiates and want to
stop/kick painlessly, in a way that apparently
offers a lot more than simple
detox too for that matter.
Peace,
Preston
—————

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Date: 2003/09/08 Mon PM 12:58:04 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] those damn junkies

<rant>
a vast majority of the problems associated with
addiction are thanks to
prohibition. (ok, understating the obvious) Add to
that the history of covert
ops of flooding america’s poor urban and rural
communities with massive amounts
of narcotics in order to keep the “undesirables”
(in the ruling elites eyes)
under control. Would be community leaders and
voices of the people supressed by
the constant, uncontrolable urge for the next fix.
This has been repeated
throughout history across the globe.

Unfortunatley (or fortunately, depending on if
you’re THE MAN) addiction knows
no boundaries. It doesn’t matter if your father
abandoned you at a young age or
not or if you sustained an injury where heavy
narcotics become more than
prescribed by the doctor. The spirit of opium is a
strong and seductive force
to reckon with, regardless of childhood trauma or
the lack of. I’ve encountered
many addicts who came from wonderful families who
just liked to get high and
got caught up in it.

But drugs are an integral part of a multi billion
dollar indistry of the rehab
and prison system here in amerika. which results a
very few people getting
actual help in treatment (bacause the odds are
like less than 10-1 that you
“fail”) while many other addicts go on to repeated
incarceration and forced
labor.

Its not the drugs (that are the problem), its the
prohibition laws and
society’s views of the “lowly evil” addict that
are the problem.
decriminilization and de-stigmatization are a very
large part of the solution.

</rant>

~dh

__________________________________
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From: sypher louis <imaginos1963@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A newbies first posting
Date: September 28, 2003 at 9:08:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what list am i on please?

“That which does not kill us,only makes us stronger.”
“What is done out of love always occurs beyond good and evil.”
Nietzsche

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A newbies first posting
Date: September 28, 2003 at 9:06:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have to agree that there is a lack of rites of passage in the western world…

If you (or anyone on this list) have a rites of passage story or ideas on this, you could write it and
send it in to MAPS as they are looking for stories about this in order to open dialogue…

check out http://www.maps.org/ritesofpassage for more info.

cheers,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: “GanjaCat” <ganjacat@ganjacat.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:22:32 +0200
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] A newbies first posting

Hello everyone!

I’ve only been ‘lurking’ for a short while, so I can’t claim to be truly
‘up to speed’ with the mores & customs of this list, however I felt it
was not wrong to introduce myself at this early stage.

Although I have achieved a certain notoriety in my own particular niche
over the past ten years or so, I don’t expect anyone here to recognise
my name, with the possible exception of Mr Emery through his connections
in the ‘cannabis world’.

A month or so ago I had never even heard of Iboga.

Now I find myself in a position where my own future is very much
entwined with one person’s attempts to open the eyes of the world to the
many potential benefits of this amazing plant.

More of that later, next a little about who I am & where I’m coming
from……

I’m a 43 year old Englishman who is now either a political exile or a
criminal on the run, depending on your point of view. I came to Holland
nearly 2 years ago following a long & painful fight with the UK
Government over my right to grow & use cannabis. If I return I face a
theoretical 21 years in prison even though not one human soul has ever
come before the courts and said that I have harmed them in any way. They
even changed the law to prevent me from running a ‘human rights’ defence
that could have been a major step towards forcing the collapse of
prohibition.

Until a short time ago, I was concentrating on ‘building a new life’
here. I was working a crappy & unrewarding job and generally doing
things ‘by the book’ in order to survive, although I continued to try to
“do my bit for the cause” online including being the co-ordinator of the
worlds’ first ever ‘coffeeshop management’ course, setting up the
‘International Canna-Lympic Movement’ & becoming an ordained Reverend of
the ULC, ‘attached’ to the THC-Ministry in Amsterdam. (Links at bottom.)

A combination of factors including the general economic slow-down &
betrayal by my partner of 6 years effectively ended that and despite my
best efforts I was faced with limited & depressing options.

Almost at the last moment I came into contact with Sara Glatt, who
offered me both a roof over my head and a ‘psycho-therapeutic’ Iboga
trip in exchange for building & promoting a website for her.

The ‘trip’, which happened 3 weeks ago, not only cleared a lot of
’emotional debris’ from my own mind, but also convinced me that this
remarkable plant could be a very valuable tool for the excision of many
‘therapy-proof’ engrams. (A few years ago I qualified as a Humanistic
Counsellor.) I have developed an enormous amount of respect for the work
being done by people such as Sara, and have decided to train under her
in the spiritual/therapeutic use of several psycho-botanicals in
addition to web mastering & admin duties here.

Whilst I must freely concede that one person’s story rarely represents
the absolute truth of a situation, what I have learned of the Iboga
story ‘from the inside’ as it were makes me feel that there are quite a
few people, some even perhaps subscribers to this list, who have been
less than perfect, from a ‘humanist’ point-of-view, in their efforts to
promote Iboga. IMHO the means DO NOT justify the ends. But no names & no
second-hand grudges from me, everyone deserves the chance for redemption
& forgiveness. (Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.)

I believe that the acceptance of diversity, within humanity in general
and the ‘Iboga field’ in particular, is the best way to discover &
promote ‘better thinking’. Personally I am interested in discovering
whether Iboga could be of help in other psyche-related ‘disorders’ such
as tendency to self-harm, propensity to violence (including rape &
paedophilia) & even over- or under- eating. I hope one day to have the
resources to investigate this properly, but I don’t want to expend my
energy ‘fighting’ those who have a vested interest in promoting their
own particular slant. There is room for all of us, the clinical & the
pastoral, the scientific & the shamanistic, the casual & the dedicated,
in this world.

OK, traditionally newcomers are supposed to ‘know their place’ and never
’cause a fuss’ until they have been taught how to behave, but sorry,
that’s not the way, has NEVER been the way that this fur-shredder
operates….

I have to comment that I’m disgusted at the number of people who’ve quit
this list in the past week or so over seemingly-trivial matters. You lot
are worse than the UKCIA subscribers at times, and that’s saying
something!

I would like to be so bold as to suggest that the reason why there has
been so much infighting, corruption, bitching & under-handedness in the
‘Iboga story’ is that message of the spirit of the Iboga itself

-that the western world has generally lost something essential in its
nature which the Iboga can (at least partially) re-balance –

has been lost because so many people have tried to use ‘western
attitudes’ (“We must purify this, patent it, prescribe this, do what
‘the they’ want to prove it as an ‘acceptable’ western medicine, become
the ‘world authority’ on this [and it doesn’t matter who gets trodden on
or ripped off in the process] etc. etc.) to force acceptance of their
position.

To nutshell it, stop thinking like white doctors and start thinking like
human beings again!

We need to change attitudes, not work to become acceptable (as in
someone ultimately gets to make big bucks from it) sub-systems of the
EVIL system that pervades the western world right now.

Yes, I’m talking about the US Federal Govt & the ‘Bilderburgs’ that pull
its’ strings.

IHMO the introduction of an ‘adulthood ritual’ using Iboga (+/or other
psycho-botanicals) to the so-called ‘first world’, giving people the
chance to ‘do a soft reset’ of their psyche from the trauma, pain &
humiliation of childhood would be a very good thing. Sod the fact that
for the drug corporations & ‘mental health professionals’ it would be a
bad thing. F*ck the fact that ‘we’re too civilised to do tribal stuff
like that anymore’….

It would do the individual good, and it would do humanity good. Isn’t
that enough?

Wishing you all
Peace, Respect & Love

Rev. Alan B Mason (aka “The GanjaCat”)
Kockengen, Netherlands.

Sara’s Addiction Therapy Pages <http://www.iboga.tk/>
Sara’s Spiritual / Recreational Pages <http://www.sarashouse.tk/>
History of the GanjaCat <http://www.free2toke.tk/>
World Championships of Cannabis Use <http://www.canna-lympics.org/>
The Gentleman’s Refuge <http://www.alco-slut.tk/>
Amsterdam THC Ministry <http://www.thc-ministry.net/>


_______________________________________________
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From: “jocy” <jr@israven.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] need advise
Date: September 28, 2003 at 8:10:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, i am the mother of an addict of heroine and codeine. my son is 24 years old , he is in a public clinic here in Venezuela. he had an overdose and have been in intensive care of hospital few weecks ago. Us the second time we find him with respiratory break almost dead.
Please i need help. I put him in a psychiatry clinic to pass the time till he gets less tempted to use.
In Venezuela there are not treatment for Heroin addicts, nether nowledge because is quit new here.
My son got this addiction in other countrys and now he can find the drug here. with codeine is much easyer , he buys it in pharmacys with no prescription.
He wants to quit, he was sober for few month but relapse happens. I lost almost all my money in treatments and detox. We talk about ibogaine and he is willing to try.
Please give me your advise.
I know is risky, and not shure but i don+t see what can work, and i am afraid to loose my son.
please let me know any sugestion
Best regards
From Venezuela
Jocy

_________________________________________________________________
IncrediMail – El E-mail ha evolucionado finalmente – Haga clic aquí

From: “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: an endnote
Date: September 28, 2003 at 10:00:57 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jay Statzer <jstatzer@qtm.net>
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: an endnote

Dana,
The thread of discussion you have sent me is puzzling. I’m not sure where to begin in commenting on it. The concept of pot users being in the same condition as junk poisoned people, just acting holier than thou? That junkies aren’t sick because AmeriKKKan society is suffering from decades of militaristic and materialistic mentality disorders? It’s not what is in the thoughts of addicts that the drug warriors are policing, it’s what people are putting into their bodies. Addicts are putting artificial body chemistry imposters into their bodies and the opiate users must do so every day. Pot people have no such need. Those with full blown endorphin related addictions need to ingest their artificial endorphin imposters in order to feel pleasure at all. Pot people have no such need. Addicts are often people who want to numb an emotional pain. Some pot people have similar life experiences and they may seek out and discover that same numbness. When they go on an become addicts, they wish they had stayed with pot. Some use pot to overcome an early-onset addiction, this is not drug replacement but the gradual corrective effect of pot’s triggering of elevated Melotonin combined with a new lifestyle regime that excludes association with addicts. There are obvious lines separating pot from addictive drugs. If someone is into shooting up but doesn’t have withdrawal or cravings yet, God bless ’em but they aren’t in deep enough to speak about addictive drugs yet. Only Preston would try to obscure the division by claiming he’s “a user of both pot and opiates” when any addict I talk to tells me pot counteracts heroin and is intolerable when in withdrawal. From his description of his pot use he doesn’t use it much lately, maybe it’s just a matter of personal preference that has him going to the needle instead each day? The convenience of getting a legal high has demonstrated in him the reason why methadone won’t solve the demand reduction formula. I wonder if Preston really thinks he can never stop shooting up? How can he? No need to now! He can go on for a lifetime using up clinic space, taking a place away from a junkie who can’t get into treatment and out of the street market. The self indulgence of it is so disgusting. Only these complacent methadone addicts are so self-indulgent and yet so jealous and negative toward the reformers. Then I remember meeting Keith Stroup at the Seattle Hempfest this year. All his organization wants is to have their own high decriminalized. They have nothing to offer the rest of the nation in return for his requests. When Cures not Wars has a rally in New York and wants to have an Ibogaine protest area included Keith insists that it must be a bait and switch tactic against the pot protesters that come to the rally and somehow all talk of cannabis liberation will not happen. Three years and several hundred rallies later he still lays this lame, empty rap on me. Here is a divisive man who spitefully uses the state chapters of his organization to hassle and negate the effectiveness of an organization dedicated not only to Keith’s high (assuming he’s not snorting the Texas-sugar-booger anymore) but to ending the drug war in the only peaceful means that AmeriKKKan politics will tolerate -effective drug treatment for demand reduction. There is no need to legalize addictive drugs and there is a great need to legalize cannabis for all it’s uses. Now I’m not going to elaborate on my theory of what Mr. Stroup’s true motives are today but the point it is that yes, some pot activists will not work with reform groups outside of their focus and when NORML does it, it is only for their own benefit or to please their outside financial backers. NORML is the only organization that refuses to play well with others. Outside of that the cannabis movement is united even while dedicated to manning individual fronts in the drug war. Outside of DPA, and a handful of staunch anti-prohibitionists, the hard drug front is mainly manned by the street gangs. No pot activist wants to admit to being in the same camp as the gangstas but the strong ones understand and address the big picture in their thinking. The fact is it’s the same cops who sting addicted buyers, arrest pushers and/or rob higher level ones, break into crack houses, round up homeless addicts, drive OD’s to emergency rooms and bust a lot of petty ante sellers. They are the same cops who make pretext stops of cars to sniff for smoke, break into grow rooms, brutalize medical pot patients, arrest college kids with a couple joints, infiltrate pot distribution rings and bust a lot of petty ante sellers. And wouldn’t you just know that they are the same cops who monitor and even intimidate pot protest events, investigate event organizers, infiltrate reform organizations, bust activist leaders and make a lot of petty ante busts at rallies.
The enemy is the same but the different fronts of our side of this Civil War on drugs need to be manned in different ways. In the case of cannabis it is a diplomatic effort to gain market separation, remove the lies and win on the merits of the truth of cannabis’ safety and usefulness. The goal is to remove criminal penalties against all forms of cannabis. In the case of hard drug addiction a higher caliber ammunition should be used to blast through the stonewall against harm-reduction, and to expose government and intelligence community complicity in creating a massive addiction problem. Against these fortified bunkers of the DEA, NIDA and FDA, ibogaine is a high explosive that can be used to shame the bureaucrats into giving us drug policy based on demand reduction instead of interdiction. There will always be cases of addicts who will do time but addiction should be reduced to an aggravating circumstance for another crime rather than a crime punishable in itself. How the anti-prohibitionists propose to solve the addiction problem by legalizing hard drugs is still a mystery to me. There is just no room for a legal addictive drug market when you consider the examples shown by cigarettes and Prozac, Paxil, et cetera, ad nausium. Just as ibogaine will naturally make methadone obsolete, pot will make addictive drugs obsolete, given the chance.
As for addiction: The most powerful anti-drug education, sadly, occurs after the fact of addiction is certain. That is when the addict realizes the loss of free will, when there is no “Just say no” option. If this addict can compare that to the non-addicted state then drug education becomes strong enough to motivate a change in lifestyle and value systems. Now if the addiction itself is still active this person is just a relapse waiting to happen, but if the natural chemical outputs in the brain are returned to normal, you have someone who is free bodily and also mentally prepared to repair the psychological aspects of the addictive lifestyle/personality. One beauty of ibogaine is how it allows a rapid A-B comparison, and with maximum contrast. A patient is in withdrawal pains and then awakes cured of pain and craving. Weaning a person free of addiction fails to give that comparison and only clears the path for relapse or re-addiction. What does it mean that ibogaine doesn’t work for “marijuana addiction?” Two things come to mind. First is that pot smoking creates a much greater response in the release of Melotonin than in any other neural pathway and gets only slight, second-handed responses from dopamine and endorphin pathways. Since Melatonin basically IS ibogaine, which IS tryptomine, pot smoking is anti-addictive. You can’t help but see the anti-hard-drug implications of that. Secondly, cannabis should truly be classified as an hallucinogen, along with all the other entheogens and other trippy stuff that we have always known don’t cause addiction or withdrawal.
As for the marijuana movement: Just as pot people try not to associate with other user groups. NORML avoids or ignores the big picture of the drug war. We used to say there was no Natl. Organization for the Reform of Heroin Law, but that was before Drug Policy Forum exploded into the media debate. DPF lobbied in favor of all drug legalization and methadone as well as any harm reduction idea that could keep an addict alive long enough to make it into and through the methadone clinic waiting lists. DPF apparently thought cannabis issues were in good hands with NORML and placed no emphasis on cannabis liberation. Now reformed as the Drug Policy Alliance, it is basically the same organization with recreational and medical cannabis added to the mission statement. The pot activists are not in good hands with NORML after all, they would do better to join the MPP. But if pot were legal today the drug war would still be going on tomorrow. That’s why Cures not Wars promotes separating the cannabis culture from the battlefield and compassionately addressing the user demand side of the drug trade first by curing addiction with ibogaine. Why perpetuate an addict with methadone in order to function a whole day when ibogaine will allow a former-addict to function for a lifetime? Addiction is not diabetes!! As a borderline myself, with lots of diabetics in my family, I personally resent that comparison. Addiction is man made and can be corrected. When the day comes that a diabetes is curable, how many will prefer to be injecting the rest of their lives!?

God forgive Amerikkka,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI
From: eldot <eldot@mail15.com>
Date: 2003/09/06 Sat PM 09:12:52 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
http://www.drugpolicy.org

Show me where in their mission statement it says “we want to legalize crack”?

The DPA is for ending the “war on drugs” not legalizing crack. I
am really sick and tired of all the entheogen people and potheads
who adopt a holier then thou attitude how what they are doing is
ok and the poor sick “hard drug” users should be saved from themselves.

The stereotypes of junkies as toothless unwashed losers are
promoted by most of the cannabis reform movement, medical
marijuana anything else you want to call it.

I don’t see any of you doing anything except dividing into
factions and it is all the pot calling the kettle black.

End the war on drugs.

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

More news is that while I don’t have anything at all good to say
about Bush, the war on drugs got no better under Clinton. It’s a
two party system. The libertarians, marijuana party, green party,
any party you want to call it, are not going to be winning any
presidential elections.
————-

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>

Date: 2003/09/07 Sun PM 01:24:46 CDT

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>

Date: 2003/09/07 Sun PM 08:36:04 CDT

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

This is a straw-man argument. It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:

>>>I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.<<<<

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com >
To: < ibogaine@mindvox.com >
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

> Marc Emery wrote >Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not
> of this experience.<
>
> Hey there Marc,
>     While I find your take on opiate addicts interesting, in that you’ve
> actually got experience with a set of addicts on which to base your
> conclusion, I can’t say I find your sweeping assessment of pot users and
> opiate addicts to really be that scientific nor convincing at all.
>     I know way too many pot users who also had/have their share of fucked
up
> life experiences. I also know a fairly large number of opiate users AND
> addicts who so far as I know had idyllic lives and childhoods with both
> parents around for the entire time.
>     As a user of both pot and opiates, I personally find eldot’s premise
to
> be pretty much spot on. Of course, I can really only speak for myself, but
> it seems to me that by basing your view on just the 28 addicts you’ve
> treated over 12 months, I don’t think that even you have  the total
picture.
> Not nearly.
>     Seems to me that were we to remove the criminalization and sterotyping
> of opiates and the users thereof, we’d remove a lot, if not most, of what
> turmoil can currently be caused by some forms of opiate use- speaking from
a
> legal, prescribed point of view of course.
>     It really is amazing to me the difference in my own opiate use and
life
> nowadays, not having to worry about cops busting in and arresting me for
> using opiates, not having to worry about what I’m buying, not having to
> worry about “oh, am I gonna get caught using,” not having to troll the
> streets day in night out for my medication, not having to worry about
> getting ripped off by hoodlums or beaten by unscrupulous dealers, or
beaten
> up by nasty bigoted street punks basing their violent prejudices on
> prohibitionistic claptrap. (It’s ok in this day and age to be violent
> towards others, but heaven forbid we allow others to use opiates. This
seems
> to be a “normal, non-sick” point of view today- not saying that’s your
> position at all- I’m just saying.) But I use opiates every single day, in
> fairly strong doses. Am I somehow less sick than streetbound heroin
junkies?
> (Well, actually, getting right down to it, yeah, maybe I am, but not
because
> of using opiates, but rather as a result of some of those aforementioned
> life experiences.)
>     While I can relate to some if not most of the addicts you’ve
apparently
> experienced at Iboga House, I don’t think of myself as more or less “sick”
> than anyone else I know- as a matter of fact, looking around the world
> today, at all the people who supposedly AREN’T using opiates but find
> nothing wrong with dropping bombs on foreigners and not supplying health
> care for all their fellow citizens, well, I’m a lot less sick than many
> “normal” non-druggy/opiate using types, even as physically battered and
> tattered as I am.
>     I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
> uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
> uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
> President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes
reporter/soldier
> with health coverage and other benefits.
>     It’s interesting to me what constitutes to some people well balanced
> citizenship and what constitutes sick.
>     Again, I’m not saying that’s your view Marc, but it is the overarching
> view of society at large here in the US at least so far as I can see. And
> while this may not be your view, you do have some personal reasons for not
> caring for opiates, no? Besides, I think you’re wrong Marc in assuming and
> flat out asserting that opiate addicts are “sicker” than anyone else
simply because of their opiate use.
>         Anyway, thanks for listening. It’s a beautiful day here in the
> Apple, and I’m sitting in front of my computer working. Hmmm.
>     Wait a minute- a regular user of (LEGAL but STRONG) opiates being
> responsible and even clear headed? Is that possible? What gives!?
> (and on one more note, I can personally say that there have been times
where
> I’ve smoked some pot or other that left me pretty much incapable of doing
> any kind of work that involved clear thinking. As much as I love pot, it
can
> leave me feeling befuddled sometimes, as can opiates sometimes too but not
> in nearly the same way, personally speaking of course.)
> Peace,
> Preston
>

—————–

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: 2003/09/08 Mon AM 11:27:34 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of “childhood traumas relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a statistical way.  I might
suggest that in your screening process you intake some patients who had quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two groups.

Howard
————

From:
“Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

Date:
2003/09/08 Mon PM 12:52:27 CDT

To:
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Subject:
Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

>It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:<

I think it is a matter of perspective, yes indeed Marc, but I don’t think
that makes it a strawman argument in the slightest, as am I not in the least
bit implying that all use equals abuse, of any substance legal or illegal at
all.
As I hope is obvious.
I am disagreeing with you that all heroin/opiate use is dehumanizing, or
equals “sickness” for sure.
I’m not at all in disagreement with you (I presume) that ibogaine should
be a legal option for those who wish not to use opiates and want to
stop/kick painlessly, in a way that apparently offers a lot more than simple
detox too for that matter.
Peace,
Preston
—————

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Date: 2003/09/08 Mon PM 12:58:04 CDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] those damn junkies
<rant>
a vast majority of the problems associated with addiction are thanks to
prohibition. (ok, understating the obvious) Add to that the history of covert
ops of flooding america’s poor urban and rural communities with massive amounts
of narcotics in order to keep the “undesirables” (in the ruling elites eyes)
under control. Would be community leaders and voices of the people supressed by
the constant, uncontrolable urge for the next fix. This has been repeated
throughout history across the globe.

Unfortunatley (or fortunately, depending on if you’re THE MAN) addiction knows
no boundaries. It doesn’t matter if your father abandoned you at a young age or
not or if you sustained an injury where heavy narcotics become more than
prescribed by the doctor. The spirit of opium is a strong and seductive force
to reckon with, regardless of childhood trauma or the lack of. I’ve encountered
many addicts who came from wonderful families who just liked to get high and
got caught up in it.

But drugs are an integral part of a multi billion dollar indistry of the rehab
and prison system here in amerika. which results a very few people getting
actual help in treatment (bacause the odds are like less than 10-1 that you
“fail”) while many other addicts go on to repeated incarceration and forced
labor.

Its not the drugs (that are the problem), its the prohibition laws and
society’s views of the “lowly evil” addict that are the problem.
decriminilization and de-stigmatization are a very large part of the solution.

</rant>

~dh
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] positive outlook
Date: September 28, 2003 at 6:59:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Agree with all this too 🙂 It can be hard to remember on a daily basis
🙂 🙂

I didn’t even know you had a iboga website until GanjaCat posted it in
his other message. Very nice.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:03:50 -0700 sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
“What ever happened to decent human nature and positive outlooks.
Suppose that sounds a be naive but it all gets a bit frustrating.
Allison”

Human nature is to be corrupted, even animals are doing better,
at least
they don’t put each other in prisons and have slavery, and all the
rest
of miseries and agonies
Human create for each other, CIA FBI, planting drugs in poor black
communities.
Strange is that dogs in Holland are doing better then some human
in many
parts of the world. I will give you a tour so you can see for yourself.

Loving kindness is the basics for spiritual growth, and that what
keeps
humanity alive. It is the realization of “one world one people”.
It will not come by itself unless a person is seeking spiritual
growth,
truth and no nightmares.
Also fear can be used for spiritual growth and positive thinking,
fear
of God. of loosing balance and insight,  of not achieving enlightenment.
of your next reincarnation, of loosing dignity and pride.  of going
to
“hell” of dissolving into nothingness, of not finding happiness.

That  ”If” fear is used against us by governments, the pope and
other
“spiritual leader” they would like to have us as slaves and corrupted
so
that more tax money for prisons, police , places for cheap labour
, war
on everyone who is on the other side ,and all kind of churches.

It is all speculation. All you can do is, act now and you will see
later.  Just know that activism changed a lot in the history of
humanity
and loving kindness made it possible.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] A newbies first posting
Date: September 28, 2003 at 6:58:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Welcome to the list GanjaCat, interesting life 🙂

I agree with alot of what you said in your message bro, very much relate
to it and the whole models of western science and who decides what you
should or shouldn’t do.

I don’t think there are any rules on this list or anyone who cares if
you ‘know your place’ or ’cause a fuss’ if there were then there wouldn’t
be anyone left posting here 🙂 Lots of people, lots of opinions, lot
of interesting info between all that too.

Had to write you a note, I liked your introduction 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:22:32 -0700 GanjaCat <ganjacat@ganjacat.net> wrote:
Hello everyone!

I’ve only been ‘lurking’ for a short while, so I can’t claim to
be truly
‘up to speed’ with the mores & customs of this list, however I felt
it
was not wrong to introduce myself at this early stage.

Although I have achieved a certain notoriety in my own particular
niche
over the past ten years or so, I don’t expect anyone here to recognise
my name, with the possible exception of Mr Emery through his connections
in the ‘cannabis world’.

A month or so ago I had never even heard of Iboga.

Now I find myself in a position where my own future is very much
entwined with one person’s attempts to open the eyes of the world
to the
many potential benefits of this amazing plant.

More of that later, next a little about who I am & where I’m coming
from……

I’m a 43 year old Englishman who is now either a political exile
or a
criminal on the run, depending on your point of view. I came to
Holland
nearly 2 years ago following a long & painful fight with the UK
Government over my right to grow & use cannabis. If I return I face
a
theoretical 21 years in prison even though not one human soul has
ever
come before the courts and said that I have harmed them in any way.
They
even changed the law to prevent me from running a ‘human rights’
defence
that could have been a major step towards forcing the collapse of
prohibition.

Until a short time ago, I was concentrating on ‘building a new life’
here. I was working a crappy & unrewarding job and generally doing
things ‘by the book’ in order to survive, although I continued to
try to
“do my bit for the cause” online including being the co-ordinator
of the
worlds’ first ever ‘coffeeshop management’ course, setting up the
‘International Canna-Lympic Movement’ & becoming an ordained Reverend
of
the ULC, ‘attached’ to the THC-Ministry in Amsterdam. (Links at
bottom.)

A combination of factors including the general economic slow-down
&
betrayal by my partner of 6 years effectively ended that and despite
my
best efforts I was faced with limited & depressing options.

Almost at the last moment I came into contact with Sara Glatt, who
offered me both a roof over my head and a ‘psycho-therapeutic’ Iboga
trip in exchange for building & promoting a website for her.

The ‘trip’, which happened 3 weeks ago, not only cleared a lot of
’emotional debris’ from my own mind, but also convinced me that
this
remarkable plant could be a very valuable tool for the excision
of many
‘therapy-proof’ engrams. (A few years ago I qualified as a Humanistic
Counsellor.) I have developed an enormous amount of respect for
the work
being done by people such as Sara, and have decided to train under
her
in the spiritual/therapeutic use of several psycho-botanicals in
addition to web mastering & admin duties here.

Whilst I must freely concede that one person’s story rarely represents
the absolute truth of a situation, what I have learned of the Iboga
story ‘from the inside’ as it were makes me feel that there are
quite a
few people, some even perhaps subscribers to this list, who have
been
less than perfect, from a ‘humanist’ point-of-view, in their efforts
to
promote Iboga. IMHO the means DO NOT justify the ends. But no names
& no
second-hand grudges from me, everyone deserves the chance for redemption
& forgiveness. (Do unto others what you would have them do unto
you.)

I believe that the acceptance of diversity, within humanity in general
and the ‘Iboga field’ in particular, is the best way to discover
&
promote ‘better thinking’. Personally I am interested in discovering
whether Iboga could be of help in other psyche-related ‘disorders’
such
as tendency to self-harm, propensity to violence (including rape
&
paedophilia) & even over- or under- eating. I hope one day to have
the
resources to investigate this properly, but I don’t want to expend
my
energy ‘fighting’ those who have a vested interest in promoting
their
own particular slant. There is room for all of us, the clinical
& the
pastoral, the scientific & the shamanistic, the casual & the dedicated,

in this world.

OK, traditionally newcomers are supposed to ‘know their place’ and
never
’cause a fuss’ until they have been taught how to behave, but sorry,

that’s not the way, has NEVER been the way that this fur-shredder
operates….

I have to comment that I’m disgusted at the number of people who’ve
quit
this list in the past week or so over seemingly-trivial matters.
You lot
are worse than the UKCIA subscribers at times, and that’s saying
something!

I would like to be so bold as to suggest that the reason why there
has
been so much infighting, corruption, bitching & under-handedness
in the
‘Iboga story’ is that message of the spirit of the Iboga itself

-that the western world has generally lost something essential in
its
nature which the Iboga can (at least partially) re-balance –

has been lost because so many people have tried to use ‘western
attitudes’ (“We must purify this, patent it, prescribe this, do
what
‘the they’ want to prove it as an ‘acceptable’ western medicine,
become
the ‘world authority’ on this [and it doesn’t matter who gets trodden
on
or ripped off in the process] etc. etc.) to force acceptance of
their
position.

To nutshell it, stop thinking like white doctors and start thinking
like
human beings again!

We need to change attitudes, not work to become acceptable (as in
someone ultimately gets to make big bucks from it) sub-systems of
the
EVIL system that pervades the western world right now.

Yes, I’m talking about the US Federal Govt & the ‘Bilderburgs’ that
pull
its’ strings.

IHMO the introduction of an ‘adulthood ritual’ using Iboga (+/or
other
psycho-botanicals) to the so-called ‘first world’, giving people
the
chance to ‘do a soft reset’ of their psyche from the trauma, pain
&
humiliation of childhood would be a very good thing. Sod the fact
that
for the drug corporations & ‘mental health professionals’ it would
be a
bad thing. F*ck the fact that ‘we’re too civilised to do tribal
stuff
like that anymore’….

It would do the individual good, and it would do humanity good.
Isn’t
that enough?

Wishing you all
Peace, Respect & Love

Rev. Alan B Mason (aka “The GanjaCat”)
Kockengen, Netherlands.

Sara’s Addiction Therapy Pages <http://www.iboga.tk/>
Sara’s Spiritual / Recreational Pages <http://www.sarashouse.tk/>

History of the GanjaCat <http://www.free2toke.tk/>
World Championships of Cannabis Use <http://www.canna-lympics.org/>

The Gentleman’s Refuge <http://www.alco-slut.tk/>
Amsterdam THC Ministry <http://www.thc-ministry.net/>

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour
Date: September 28, 2003 at 1:57:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why would anyone possibly want to pay money
for such a sick idea…<

Because you don’t have to pay any money, and it is outlining the bullshit
behind the war in many ways.
It’s worth taking this ONLINE tour.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour

Hey,
Did you actually check out the “tour”?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour

Guided tours???   Are you serious.  I thought the park dinners were a joke
but this takes the cake.
Has it never occurred to some of the idiots trying to “lead the country”
(and I put that in brackets, cos the description is debatable anyway)  ,
that they should look in their own back yard before sticking their noses
and
necks out into others.  Whats next, guided tours of mental health
institutes,
welfare organisations etc. etc.  Why would anyone possibly want to pay
money
for such a sick idea…Every day we get media assaulting us with bad news
and worse news, the latest most heinous crime. What ever happened to
decent
human nature and positive outlooks.  Suppose that sounds a be naive but it
all gets a bit frustrating.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 26 September 2003 12:30:42 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour

http://www.guerrillanews.com/reality_tour/
Drug War Reality Tour
“When we talk about the ‘Drug War,’ we have to
understand that it functions in a very specific way:
it functions as a form of chemical warfare on the people
in this country and throughout the world.”
Kensington, PA is one of the nation’s poorest and most neglected
neighborhoods. Once a thriving industrial hub for the textile sector,
during
the late 1970’s Kensington was hit by a wave of de-industrialization which
saw American jobs lost to the growing pool of sweatshop labor in Mexico
and
South East Asia. Today, Kensington’s two major sources of income are
welfare
and narcotics. As one of the biggest heroin distribution centers in the
country, it is not uncommon to find addicts of all ages, crouched in broad
daylight, shooting dope with purities ranging from 80 – 90%.
While the U.S. government spends increasingly more money on domestic law
enforcement and Colombian paratroopers – all in the name of fighting the
so-called War on Drugs – Kensington has spiralled deeper and deeper into
abject chaos. Fuelling the crisis, jails are filled to capacity with
non-violent drug offenders who, when they are released, cannot qualify for
government-sponsored addiction treatment programs. And so a vicious cycle
ensues, one that is contained to the Kensington area, where children are
brought up in conditions that more closely resemble those of a developing
nation than the world’s new imperial superpower.
In this 22-minute extended NewsVideo – scored by Crack The CIA’s DJ
Trek-e –
GNN takes you on a guided tour through the heart of America’s heroin
capital. Sponsored by the Kensington Welfare Rights Union (KWRU), The Drug
War Reality Tour, transports busloads of tourists to the battlefield of
America’s own domestic Drug War, showing them every aspect of the drug
game:
from where the dope arrives to where it is sold and used. Throughout the
tour, street-wise KWRU members break down facts about the narco-culture
and
how forces like police complicity and corporate investment are aiding and
using the drug epidemic to drive Kensington’s people out of their own
neighborhood in order to make room for new urban development.
So get on the bus and experience one of the most controversial and
inspiring
approaches to social activism ever conceived.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour
Date: September 28, 2003 at 1:28:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey,
Did you actually check out the “tour”?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour

Guided tours???   Are you serious.  I thought the park dinners were a joke
but this takes the cake.
Has it never occurred to some of the idiots trying to “lead the country”
(and I put that in brackets, cos the description is debatable anyway)  ,
that they should look in their own back yard before sticking their noses and
necks out into others.  Whats next, guided tours of mental health
institutes,
welfare organisations etc. etc.  Why would anyone possibly want to pay money
for such a sick idea…Every day we get media assaulting us with bad news
and worse news, the latest most heinous crime. What ever happened to decent
human nature and positive outlooks.  Suppose that sounds a be naive but it
all gets a bit frustrating.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 26 September 2003 12:30:42 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour

http://www.guerrillanews.com/reality_tour/
Drug War Reality Tour
“When we talk about the ‘Drug War,’ we have to
understand that it functions in a very specific way:
it functions as a form of chemical warfare on the people
in this country and throughout the world.”
Kensington, PA is one of the nation’s poorest and most neglected
neighborhoods. Once a thriving industrial hub for the textile sector, during
the late 1970’s Kensington was hit by a wave of de-industrialization which
saw American jobs lost to the growing pool of sweatshop labor in Mexico and
South East Asia. Today, Kensington’s two major sources of income are welfare
and narcotics. As one of the biggest heroin distribution centers in the
country, it is not uncommon to find addicts of all ages, crouched in broad
daylight, shooting dope with purities ranging from 80 – 90%.
While the U.S. government spends increasingly more money on domestic law
enforcement and Colombian paratroopers – all in the name of fighting the
so-called War on Drugs – Kensington has spiralled deeper and deeper into
abject chaos. Fuelling the crisis, jails are filled to capacity with
non-violent drug offenders who, when they are released, cannot qualify for
government-sponsored addiction treatment programs. And so a vicious cycle
ensues, one that is contained to the Kensington area, where children are
brought up in conditions that more closely resemble those of a developing
nation than the world’s new imperial superpower.
In this 22-minute extended NewsVideo – scored by Crack The CIA’s DJ Trek-e –
GNN takes you on a guided tour through the heart of America’s heroin
capital. Sponsored by the Kensington Welfare Rights Union (KWRU), The Drug
War Reality Tour, transports busloads of tourists to the battlefield of
America’s own domestic Drug War, showing them every aspect of the drug game:
from where the dope arrives to where it is sold and used. Throughout the
tour, street-wise KWRU members break down facts about the narco-culture and
how forces like police complicity and corporate investment are aiding and
using the drug epidemic to drive Kensington’s people out of their own
neighborhood in order to make room for new urban development.
So get on the bus and experience one of the most controversial and inspiring
approaches to social activism ever conceived.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “GanjaCat” <ganjacat@ganjacat.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] A newbies first posting
Date: September 28, 2003 at 12:22:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everyone!

I’ve only been ‘lurking’ for a short while, so I can’t claim to be truly ‘up to speed’ with the mores & customs of this list, however I felt it was not wrong to introduce myself at this early stage.

Although I have achieved a certain notoriety in my own particular niche over the past ten years or so, I don’t expect anyone here to recognise my name, with the possible exception of Mr Emery through his connections in the ‘cannabis world’.

A month or so ago I had never even heard of Iboga.

Now I find myself in a position where my own future is very much entwined with one person’s attempts to open the eyes of the world to the many potential benefits of this amazing plant.

More of that later, next a little about who I am & where I’m coming from……

I’m a 43 year old Englishman who is now either a political exile or a criminal on the run, depending on your point of view. I came to Holland nearly 2 years ago following a long & painful fight with the UK Government over my right to grow & use cannabis. If I return I face a theoretical 21 years in prison even though not one human soul has ever come before the courts and said that I have harmed them in any way. They even changed the law to prevent me from running a ‘human rights’ defence that could have been a major step towards forcing the collapse of prohibition.

Until a short time ago, I was concentrating on ‘building a new life’ here. I was working a crappy & unrewarding job and generally doing things ‘by the book’ in order to survive, although I continued to try to “do my bit for the cause” online including being the co-ordinator of the worlds’ first ever ‘coffeeshop management’ course, setting up the ‘International Canna-Lympic Movement’ & becoming an ordained Reverend of the ULC, ‘attached’ to the THC-Ministry in Amsterdam. (Links at bottom.)

A combination of factors including the general economic slow-down & betrayal by my partner of 6 years effectively ended that and despite my best efforts I was faced with limited & depressing options.

Almost at the last moment I came into contact with Sara Glatt, who offered me both a roof over my head and a ‘psycho-therapeutic’ Iboga trip in exchange for building & promoting a website for her.

The ‘trip’, which happened 3 weeks ago, not only cleared a lot of ’emotional debris’ from my own mind, but also convinced me that this remarkable plant could be a very valuable tool for the excision of many ‘therapy-proof’ engrams. (A few years ago I qualified as a Humanistic Counsellor.) I have developed an enormous amount of respect for the work being done by people such as Sara, and have decided to train under her in the spiritual/therapeutic use of several psycho-botanicals in addition to web mastering & admin duties here.

Whilst I must freely concede that one person’s story rarely represents the absolute truth of a situation, what I have learned of the Iboga story ‘from the inside’ as it were makes me feel that there are quite a few people, some even perhaps subscribers to this list, who have been less than perfect, from a ‘humanist’ point-of-view, in their efforts to promote Iboga. IMHO the means DO NOT justify the ends. But no names & no second-hand grudges >from me, everyone deserves the chance for redemption & forgiveness. (Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.)

I believe that the acceptance of diversity, within humanity in general and the ‘Iboga field’ in particular, is the best way to discover & promote ‘better thinking’. Personally I am interested in discovering whether Iboga could be of help in other psyche-related ‘disorders’ such as tendency to self-harm, propensity to violence (including rape & paedophilia) & even over- or under- eating. I hope one day to have the resources to investigate this properly, but I don’t want to expend my energy ‘fighting’ those who have a vested interest in promoting their own particular slant. There is room for all of us, the clinical & the pastoral, the scientific & the shamanistic, the casual & the dedicated, in this world.

OK, traditionally newcomers are supposed to ‘know their place’ and never ’cause a fuss’ until they have been taught how to behave, but sorry, that’s not the way, has NEVER been the way that this fur-shredder operates….

I have to comment that I’m disgusted at the number of people who’ve quit this list in the past week or so over seemingly-trivial matters. You lot are worse than the UKCIA subscribers at times, and that’s saying something!

I would like to be so bold as to suggest that the reason why there has been so much infighting, corruption, bitching & under-handedness in the ‘Iboga story’ is that message of the spirit of the Iboga itself

-that the western world has generally lost something essential in its nature which the Iboga can (at least partially) re-balance –

has been lost because so many people have tried to use ‘western attitudes’ (“We must purify this, patent it, prescribe this, do what ‘the they’ want to prove it as an ‘acceptable’ western medicine, become the ‘world authority’ on this [and it doesn’t matter who gets trodden on or ripped off in the process] etc. etc.) to force acceptance of their position.

To nutshell it, stop thinking like white doctors and start thinking like human beings again!

We need to change attitudes, not work to become acceptable (as in someone ultimately gets to make big bucks from it) sub-systems of the EVIL system that pervades the western world right now.

Yes, I’m talking about the US Federal Govt & the ‘Bilderburgs’ that pull its’ strings.

IHMO the introduction of an ‘adulthood ritual’ using Iboga (+/or other psycho-botanicals) to the so-called ‘first world’, giving people the chance to ‘do a soft reset’ of their psyche from the trauma, pain & humiliation of childhood would be a very good thing. Sod the fact that for the drug corporations & ‘mental health professionals’ it would be a bad thing. F*ck the fact that ‘we’re too civilised to do tribal stuff like that anymore’….

It would do the individual good, and it would do humanity good. Isn’t that enough?

Wishing you all
Peace, Respect & Love

Rev. Alan B Mason (aka “The GanjaCat”)
Kockengen, Netherlands.

Sara’s Addiction Therapy Pages
Sara’s Spiritual / Recreational Pages
History of the GanjaCat
World Championships of Cannabis Use
The Gentleman’s Refuge
Amsterdam THC Ministry
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] CBS TV NEWS doing item on Iboga Treatment
Date: September 28, 2003 at 12:02:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please be sure to send to list time and date this is to aired. Thanks! Callie

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] CBS TV NEWS doing item on Iboga Treatment
Date: September 28, 2003 at 8:04:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wish I could watch it. Any way to get a tape or transcript once it airs?

Oh and Marc did you ever get my last email?  I had sent a long response when we were discussing childhood hurts a couple weeks ago and I never heard anything from you??  Just wondering what you thought.  Also, I’d really like to discuss coming to your treatment center after the 1st of the year.  Thanks,

Jennifer

marc420emery@shaw.ca wrote:

CBS Television in Los Angeles is working on an ibogaine treatment news item using Randy Hencken’s Rosarito Clinic and our Iboga House to profile the use of iboga in treating drug addiction.

Marc Emery
Iboga House,
Vancouver

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From: “\”SkuFF StuFF\”” <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] please unscribe me from all your ioboca e-mails or tell me where i can e-mail to do so.
Date: September 28, 2003 at 7:59:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“\”SkuFF StuFF\”” <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com> wrote:
please unscribe to all ioboca e-mails

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hey all,
Anyone have any ideas or tips for this guy, Bruce Mendelson?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “John French”
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: [stnap] Treatment in Correctional Settings – Info Request

>
> Bruce Mendelson has a request for information. You can respond directly to
> him at: Bruce.Mendelson@state.co.us
>
> “Well, here I go again. I am looking for any studies (national, state,
> local, etc.) that examine benefits of treating -vs.- not treating
> substance abusers in adult and juvenile corrections. I am especially
> interested in outcome differences and/or cost benefit (e.g., a state
> saved xx dollars for every inmate treated -vs.- those not treated). A
> committee of our Colorado legislature is looking at this issue next week
> so a quick reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!”
>
>
> __________________________
> To subscribe, e-mail john.french@verizon.net

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From: “\”SkuFF StuFF\”” <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [stnap] Treatment in Correctional Settings – Info Request
Date: September 28, 2003 at 7:57:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please unscribe to all ioboca e-mails

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hey all,
Anyone have any ideas or tips for this guy, Bruce Mendelson?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “John French”
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: [stnap] Treatment in Correctional Settings – Info Request

>
> Bruce Mendelson has a request for information. You can respond directly to
> him at: Bruce.Mendelson@state.co.us
>
> “Well, here I go again. I am looking for any studies (national, state,
> local, etc.) that examine benefits of treating -vs.- not treating
> substance abusers in adult and juvenile corrections. I am especially
> interested in outcome differences and/or cost benefit (e.g., a state
> saved xx dollars for every inmate treated -vs.- those not treated). A
> committee of our Colorado legislature is looking at this issue next week
> so a quick reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!”
>
>
> __________________________
> To subscribe, e-mail john.french@verizon.net

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From: “\”SkuFF StuFF\”” <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] positive outlook
Date: September 28, 2003 at 7:55:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please unsubscribe

sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
”What ever happened to decent human nature and positive outlooks.  Suppose that sounds a be naive but it all gets a bit frustrating.   Allison”

Human nature is to be corrupted, even animals are doing better, at least they don’t put each other in prisons and have slavery, and all the rest of miseries and agonies
Human create for each other, CIA FBI, planting drugs in poor black communities.
Strange is that dogs in Holland are doing better then some human in many parts of the world. I will give you a tour so you can see for yourself.

Loving kindness is the basics for spiritual growth, and that what keeps humanity alive. It is the realization of “one world one people”.
It will not come by itself unless a person is seeking spiritual growth, truth and no nightmares.
Also fear can be used for spiritual growth and positive thinking, fear of God. of loosing balance and insight,  of not achieving enlightenment.
of your next reincarnation, of loosing dignity and pride.  of going to “hell” of dissolving into nothingness, of not finding happiness.

That  ‘’If” fear is used against us by governments, the pope and other “spiritual leader” they would like to have us as slaves and corrupted so that more tax money for prisons, police , places for cheap labour , war on everyone who is on the other side ,and all kind of churches.

It is all speculation. All you can do is, act now and you will see later.  Just know that activism changed a lot in the history of humanity and loving kindness made it possible.

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From: “\”SkuFF StuFF\”” <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] positive outlook
Date: September 28, 2003 at 7:55:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please unsubscribe

sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
”What ever happened to decent human nature and positive outlooks.  Suppose that sounds a be naive but it all gets a bit frustrating.   Allison”

Human nature is to be corrupted, even animals are doing better, at least they don’t put each other in prisons and have slavery, and all the rest of miseries and agonies
Human create for each other, CIA FBI, planting drugs in poor black communities.
Strange is that dogs in Holland are doing better then some human in many parts of the world. I will give you a tour so you can see for yourself.

Loving kindness is the basics for spiritual growth, and that what keeps humanity alive. It is the realization of “one world one people”.
It will not come by itself unless a person is seeking spiritual growth, truth and no nightmares.
Also fear can be used for spiritual growth and positive thinking, fear of God. of loosing balance and insight,  of not achieving enlightenment.
of your next reincarnation, of loosing dignity and pride.  of going to “hell” of dissolving into nothingness, of not finding happiness.

That  ‘’If” fear is used against us by governments, the pope and other “spiritual leader” they would like to have us as slaves and corrupted so that more tax money for prisons, police , places for cheap labour , war on everyone who is on the other side ,and all kind of churches.

It is all speculation. All you can do is, act now and you will see later.  Just know that activism changed a lot in the history of humanity and loving kindness made it possible.

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] positive outlook
Date: September 28, 2003 at 5:03:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

”What ever happened to decent human nature and positive outlooks.  Suppose that sounds a be naive but it all gets a bit frustrating.   Allison”

Human nature is to be corrupted, even animals are doing better, at least they don’t put each other in prisons and have slavery, and all the rest of miseries and agonies
Human create for each other, CIA FBI, planting drugs in poor black communities.
Strange is that dogs in Holland are doing better then some human in many parts of the world. I will give you a tour so you can see for yourself.

Loving kindness is the basics for spiritual growth, and that what keeps humanity alive. It is the realization of “one world one people”.
It will not come by itself unless a person is seeking spiritual growth, truth and no nightmares.
Also fear can be used for spiritual growth and positive thinking, fear of God. of loosing balance and insight,  of not achieving enlightenment.
of your next reincarnation, of loosing dignity and pride.  of going to “hell” of dissolving into nothingness, of not finding happiness.

That  ‘’If” fear is used against us by governments, the pope and other “spiritual leader” they would like to have us as slaves and corrupted so that more tax money for prisons, police , places for cheap labour , war on everyone who is on the other side ,and all kind of churches.

It is all speculation. All you can do is, act now and you will see later.  Just know that activism changed a lot in the history of humanity and loving kindness made it possible.

From: “D B” <facobly@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 26, 2003 at 10:25:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,
I have about 1500 acres of land in Ghana in a tropical rain forest zone I want to cultivate Iboga. I’m looking for seeds ,seedlings, cuttings.
Does anyone know where can i contact someone ?
Thxs

MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! Cliquez-ici

From: marc420emery@shaw.ca
Subject: [ibogaine] CBS TV NEWS doing item on Iboga Treatment
Date: September 26, 2003 at 5:50:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CBS Television in Los Angeles is working on an ibogaine treatment news item using Randy Hencken’s Rosarito Clinic and our Iboga House to profile the use of iboga in treating drug addiction.

Marc Emery
Iboga House,
Vancouver

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour
Date: September 26, 2003 at 8:07:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Guided tours???   Are you serious.  I thought the park dinners were a joke but this takes the cake.
Has it never occurred to some of the idiots trying to “lead the country”  (and I put that in brackets, cos the description is debatable anyway)  , that they should look in their own back yard before sticking their noses and necks out into others.  Whats next, guided tours of mental health institutes,
welfare organisations etc. etc.  Why would anyone possibly want to pay money for such a sick idea…Every day we get media assaulting us with bad news and worse news, the latest most heinous crime. What ever happened to decent human nature and positive outlooks.  Suppose that sounds a be naive but it all gets a bit frustrating.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 26 September 2003 12:30:42 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour

http://www.guerrillanews.com/reality_tour/
Drug War Reality Tour
“When we talk about the ‘Drug War,’ we have to
understand that it functions in a very specific way:
it functions as a form of chemical warfare on the people
in this country and throughout the world.”
Kensington, PA is one of the nation’s poorest and most neglected
neighborhoods. Once a thriving industrial hub for the textile sector, during
the late 1970’s Kensington was hit by a wave of de-industrialization which
saw American jobs lost to the growing pool of sweatshop labor in Mexico and
South East Asia. Today, Kensington’s two major sources of income are welfare
and narcotics. As one of the biggest heroin distribution centers in the
country, it is not uncommon to find addicts of all ages, crouched in broad
daylight, shooting dope with purities ranging from 80 – 90%.
While the U.S. government spends increasingly more money on domestic law
enforcement and Colombian paratroopers – all in the name of fighting the
so-called War on Drugs – Kensington has spiralled deeper and deeper into
abject chaos. Fuelling the crisis, jails are filled to capacity with
non-violent drug offenders who, when they are released, cannot qualify for
government-sponsored addiction treatment programs. And so a vicious cycle
ensues, one that is contained to the Kensington area, where children are
brought up in conditions that more closely resemble those of a developing
nation than the world’s new imperial superpower.
In this 22-minute extended NewsVideo – scored by Crack The CIA’s DJ Trek-e –
GNN takes you on a guided tour through the heart of America’s heroin
capital. Sponsored by the Kensington Welfare Rights Union (KWRU), The Drug
War Reality Tour, transports busloads of tourists to the battlefield of
America’s own domestic Drug War, showing them every aspect of the drug game:
from where the dope arrives to where it is sold and used. Throughout the
tour, street-wise KWRU members break down facts about the narco-culture and
how forces like police complicity and corporate investment are aiding and
using the drug epidemic to drive Kensington’s people out of their own
neighborhood in order to make room for new urban development.
So get on the bus and experience one of the most controversial and inspiring
approaches to social activism ever conceived.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [stnap] Treatment in Correctional Settings – Info Request
Date: September 27, 2003 at 11:21:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,
Anyone have any ideas or tips for this guy, Bruce Mendelson?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “John French” <john.french@verizon.net>
To: <stnap-stnap@list01.cdmgroup.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: [stnap] Treatment in Correctional Settings – Info Request

Bruce Mendelson has a request for information. You can respond directly to
him at: Bruce.Mendelson@state.co.us

“Well, here I go again.  I am looking for any studies (national, state,
local, etc.) that examine benefits of treating -vs.- not treating
substance abusers in adult and juvenile corrections.  I am especially
interested in outcome differences and/or cost benefit (e.g., a state
saved xx dollars for every inmate treated -vs.- those not treated).  A
committee of our Colorado legislature is looking at this issue next week
so a quick reply would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!!”

__________________________
To subscribe, e-mail john.french@verizon.net

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] quote of the weekend-Albert Einstein
Date: September 27, 2003 at 11:07:45 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Remember,
Bill Bennett, John Walters, Barry McCaffrey, John Ashcroft et al are much, much smarter than Albert Einstein, obviously. Any day now we’re going to win, and I mean really, we’re going to Declare a Victory in the War on Some Drugs and Users…if we just spend MORE money THIS year instead of taking care of those pesky rising US poverty levels and the like
(for more on rising US poverty rates, see- http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/092703J.shtml). It’s probably just poor people anyway who are usin’ the drugs so why bother helping them? They’re just druggies anyway, or at risk of being druggies, so why help them? That’d be communistic or socialistic, and we can’t have that! We gotta help “rebuild” Iraq(i oil pipelines)! Heck, we can maybe even use the poverty-stricken druggie people as prison labor- in Iraq!
Peace,
Preston

QUOTE OF THE WEEKEND
“The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government & the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.”
– – Albert Einstein  ( “My First Impression of the U.S.A.”, 1921)

This comes to us from Gary Rhine’s Rhino’s Weekend Blog-
SEARCH BLOG ARCHIVES / SURF RHINO’S LINKS, AT:  http://www.rhinosblog.info
RHINO’S OTHER WEB SITES:
http://www.dreamcatchers.org  (INDIGENOUS ASSISTANCE & INTERCULTURAL DIALOG)
http://www.kifaru.com  (NATIVE AMERICAN RELATIONS VIDEO DOCUMENTARIES)

From: Skuff <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 2:05:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Faye, Shawn” <Shawn.Faye@NorthSafety.com> wrote:
Please unsubscribe
—–Original Message—–
From: Skuff [mailto:amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 10:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg

AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
unsubscribe please

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From: “Faye, Shawn” <Shawn.Faye@NorthSafety.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 1:58:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please unsubscribe
—–Original Message—–
From: Skuff [mailto:amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 10:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg

AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
unsubscribe please

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From: Skuff <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 1:09:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Unsubscribe Please.

IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it
deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod
are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and
lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef
but the wrod as a wlohe.

I dno’t konw why tihs rndemis me of Igobiane?

😉

Mrako

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The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: Skuff <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 1:08:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
unsubscribe please

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From: AQUIS18@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 9:59:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

unsubscribe please

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Drug War Reality Tour
Date: September 25, 2003 at 8:23:37 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.guerrillanews.com/reality_tour/
Drug War Reality Tour
“When we talk about the ‘Drug War,’ we have to
understand that it functions in a very specific way:
it functions as a form of chemical warfare on the people
in this country and throughout the world.”
Kensington, PA is one of the nation’s poorest and most neglected
neighborhoods. Once a thriving industrial hub for the textile sector, during
the late 1970’s Kensington was hit by a wave of de-industrialization which
saw American jobs lost to the growing pool of sweatshop labor in Mexico and
South East Asia. Today, Kensington’s two major sources of income are welfare
and narcotics. As one of the biggest heroin distribution centers in the
country, it is not uncommon to find addicts of all ages, crouched in broad
daylight, shooting dope with purities ranging from 80 – 90%.
While the U.S. government spends increasingly more money on domestic law
enforcement and Colombian paratroopers – all in the name of fighting the
so-called War on Drugs – Kensington has spiralled deeper and deeper into
abject chaos. Fuelling the crisis, jails are filled to capacity with
non-violent drug offenders who, when they are released, cannot qualify for
government-sponsored addiction treatment programs. And so a vicious cycle
ensues, one that is contained to the Kensington area, where children are
brought up in conditions that more closely resemble those of a developing
nation than the world’s new imperial superpower.
In this 22-minute extended NewsVideo – scored by Crack The CIA’s DJ Trek-e –
GNN takes you on a guided tour through the heart of America’s heroin
capital. Sponsored by the Kensington Welfare Rights Union (KWRU), The Drug
War Reality Tour, transports busloads of tourists to the battlefield of
America’s own domestic Drug War, showing them every aspect of the drug game:
from where the dope arrives to where it is sold and used. Throughout the
tour, street-wise KWRU members break down facts about the narco-culture and
how forces like police complicity and corporate investment are aiding and
using the drug epidemic to drive Kensington’s people out of their own
neighborhood in order to make room for new urban development.
So get on the bus and experience one of the most controversial and inspiring
approaches to social activism ever conceived.

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 6:41:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL!  I saw a fowrarded emial abuot htis yetserady, it’s fnuny ins’t it? lol

Jennifer

IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it
deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod
are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and
lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef
but the wrod as a wlohe.

I dno’t konw why tihs rndemis me of Igobiane?

😉

Mrako

 

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping – with improved product search

From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] Srtagne tinhg
Date: September 25, 2003 at 6:21:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it
deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod
are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and
lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef
but the wrod as a wlohe.

I dno’t konw why tihs rndemis me of Igobiane?

😉

Mrako

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 25, 2003 at 1:11:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/24/03 7:34:11 PM, digital@phantom.com writes:

<< Besides, I’m only responsible for you the DAY OF … plus, also, Howard is
partially to blame and has to hold your leash when my hand gets tired. >>

Patrick,

I lied.  There is no leash.  What do we do next??

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…
Date: September 25, 2003 at 12:41:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ah–but it’s not about pot…>Thanks to the efforts of yours truly, for
which I took a lot of shit, largely cause I ran into nn initial gatekeeper
at H.T. (Dean Latimer) whose reaction to ibo was “Why would anyone want to
quit heroin.” <

I have to pipe up here and just say that I consider both Dana Beal and Dean
Latimer as friends.
Hmmm.
What does that mean?
What does that say?
Does it matter?
Who cares?
Just had to say it. I agree that inner-movement politics suck, and seem to
have lead to fractures impeding real reform for a long time. (Shades of
cointelpro?) Dean Latimer, coincidentally enough, warned me about these
politics and the loads of meanie people in the movement I’d stumble across
and he was right. But anyway, since Dean is a friend, I had to speak up and
say something. He taught me a lot about honing my writing.
Haven’t seen him in months and I think about him sometimes.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:57 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…

It’s about legalization. Ibogaine IS illegal, y’know. Ethan Nadelman runs
the Drug Policy Alliance, which is mainly about legalizing heroin and
promoting methadone/buprenorphin.  Not legalizing pot so much– maybe
medical marijuana. The big mystery is why they’re stand-offish toward ibo,
when in theory they’re for legalizing psychedelics. (Big MDMA supporters,
they are).

Getting this little panel represents a big development with them, but it’ll
be at the same time as twelve other panels. It’s not one of the plenary
presentations.

From:
Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>

Date:
2003/09/24 Wed PM 06:05:58 CDT

To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject:
Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….

I understand that you guys are mostly joking here
between yourselves. What I wanted to bring up is that
after years of reading this from the outside it
doesn’t make any more sense to me now then it did back
then. I am in no way putting down the cannabis
movement, I am only saying that I don’t understand
what all the problems between all of you are or why
they’re so big that you look like you spend a lot of
your time and energy fighting each other instead of
agreeing to do something.

The problem is that they’ve been ignoring ibo, so I had to do a little
protest at their conference 2 years ago, which produced a commitment from
Ethan to do this workshop. Ethan works for Soros, BTW.

I do understand that a lot of you have relationships
that have nothing to do with the list and a lot
happens in the background but for instance I liked the
libertarian party blog when I first heard about it,
but I understand exactly zilch about who any of the
involved people are, why Patrick is spending his time
rewriting what Dana Beal meant to say or why so many
people link to this one blog which is a great letter
but why why why is so much time spent with all the
factions of the cannabis movement which I admit I do
not understand as I said when I started this message,
fighting about??

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html
http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

I am in no way putting down any of the positive things
anyone does. I am only saying that the internal
politics of the cannabis reform movement make
absolutely no sense to anybody except all of you who
are involved with it and I guess Patrick who is
rewriting who meant to say what 😉 And that is not a
dis! You realy should run for office Patrick 😉

The thing is, the biggest portion of the legalization movement is grassroots
cannabis activists, most of whom by now know about and support ibo. Thanks
to the efforts of yours truly, for which I took a lot of shit, largely cause
I ran into nn initial gatekeeper at H.T. (Dean Latimer) whose reaction to
ibo was “Why would anyone want to quit heroin.” (He was their house opiate
afficianado–most of the rest of them being into pot and coke.)

I don’t know who Ethan is, who Keith Stroup is

Head of NORML–very down on the association of pot with LSD. (But he lost
his job in 1978 because of coke). Says Ibogaine is crazy,  and tries to
discredit the idea of activists promoting ibo as a way of protecting  the
counter-cultural opposition from going down the vortex of addiction.

who the
Kennedys are,

Big players in both the DPA and NORML–plus they have the money and contacts
that could have moved Ibo forward thru clinical trials anytime they really
tried. Keep in mind that the second article about Lotsof and his discovery
to appear in the whole world was written by Steve Hager of High Times. (The
first was in the Yippie paper OVERTHROW.)

who Steve Bloom is,

Once refused to fund a mailing because it would also contain something on
ibo…

who anybody
mentioned in these messages is other then some people
involved with selling pot, selling pot magazines or
??????

Carla B

But H.T., as I said, was not intended by its founder Tom Forcade to be a
pot magazine, and that’s what the argument is about. Hager became
editor-in-chief & turned it into one two or three years  after that initial
ibo article. (Which was an improvement on centerfolds of coke). In the past
10 years they’ve kinda stopped writing about ibo, cause DPA, NORML and the
Kennedys circled the wagons in support of the status quo, which included
methadone, clean needles, and heroin trials…but not Ibogaine.

Dana/cnw

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 24, 2003 at 9:26:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

High Times is not in favor with
cannabis reform activists because it is charged with
not doing anything except selling magazines and
capitalizing on a lifestyle.<

Welll,
As a HT writer for a number of years now (and for a while an Editor at
Large), I beg to differ, but then, I only ever really speak for myself.;-))
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Michael Synergy” <synergy_1959@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….

Carla you can remove cannabis and replace it with
almost anything else. Oil, politics, sports. All the
arguments are about the same things all people argue
about. Money, ego and who’s right or wrong.

Try explaining the past and present of ibogaine to
someone who just walked in the room. Not a big
difference. You have the pot calling the kettle black.
Ibogaine is the biggest psychedelic soap opera going
and has no more unity among the players then any other
group mentioned. Except on top of that try explaining
what ibogaine even does.

The difference is ibogaine has been financially backed
in many ways by the cannabis movement over a long
time.

Keith Stroup is from NORML. Ethan is Ethan Nadelman
who runs the Drug Policy Alliance which used to be the
Lindesmith center that merged with the Drug Policy
Foundation. Steve Bloom is a editor at High Times.
Kennedys are some of the owners of High Times which
has been owned by Tom Forcade’s lawyers since he
comitted suicide. High Times is not in favor with
cannabis reform activists because it is charged with
not doing anything except selling magazines and
capitalizing on a lifestyle.

-Syn

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
I understand that you guys are mostly joking here
between yourselves. What I wanted to bring up is
that
after years of reading this from the outside it
doesn’t make any more sense to me now then it did
back
then. I am in no way putting down the cannabis
movement, I am only saying that I don’t understand
what all the problems between all of you are or why
they’re so big that you look like you spend a lot of
your time and energy fighting each other instead of
agreeing to do something.

I do understand that a lot of you have relationships
that have nothing to do with the list and a lot
happens in the background but for instance I liked
the
libertarian party blog when I first heard about it,
but I understand exactly zilch about who any of the
involved people are, why Patrick is spending his
time
rewriting what Dana Beal meant to say or why so many
people link to this one blog which is a great letter
but why why why is so much time spent with all the
factions of the cannabis movement which I admit I do
not understand as I said when I started this
message,
fighting about??

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html
http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

I am in no way putting down any of the positive
things
anyone does. I am only saying that the internal
politics of the cannabis reform movement make
absolutely no sense to anybody except all of you who
are involved with it and I guess Patrick who is
rewriting who meant to say what 😉 And that is not
a
dis! You realy should run for office Patrick 😉

I don’t know who Ethan is, who Keith Stroup is who
the
Kennedys are, who Steve Bloom is, who anybody
mentioned in these messages is other then some
people
involved with selling pot, selling pot magazines or
??????

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 10:56:02AM -0400], [Dana
Beal] wrote:

| >From:
| >”Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
| >Date:
| >2003/09/24 Wed AM 07:11:31 CDT
| >To:
| ><ibogaine@mindvox.com>
| >Subject:
| >Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners  won’t back
ibo
| >
| >wow, talk about alternate realities.
| >rich people have different lives and things
than
do I, that’s  for sure.
| >Peace,
| >Preston
| >—– Original Message —–
| >From: Allison    Senepart
| >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19    AM
| >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T.    owners
won’t back ibo
| >
| >That is so sick and so much a joke it reads
like
some
| >really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or
indeed a
| >joke.   Allison
|
| Not a joke, but quite ironic, that H.T. has had
the ibogaine info
| since 1985, and Marc (Cannabis Culture) has done
more about it in 12
| mos than the Kennedys have done about it in 20
years!

Oh shush.  High Times is my VERY FAVORITE magazine
in the whole entire
world.  Or, I mean, it could be … if someone
paid
me to say that (Steve
Bloom please take note).  Never actually read it.
Flipping through it at
the newsstand it appears to have more pictures of
semi-naked chicks than I
remembered.  There’s an improvement.

| That’s because H.T. is ultimately run by folks
who
are drug lawyers,
| not drug users.
|
| Patrick, do you think I’ll get in trouble with
Ethan for saying this
| on list?

Dana, I think Ethan UNDERSTANDS that you’re doing
just fabulous.  In fact,
we’re gonna go right ahead and increase your
medication to triple the
current dose.  The results speak for themselves.

Besides, I’m only responsible for you the DAY OF

plus, also, Howard is
partially to blame and has to hold your leash when
my hand gets tired.

“That’s IT!  All of you GET THE HELL OUT.”

| I’ve been very good about avoiding Keith
Stroup–not going
| to the screening of “Potluck” today, for
instance.
|
|
| Dana/cnw

Why not…?  If I wuz in NYC I’d go.  I’m sure it
has a great plot or
sumthin’

Patrick

p.s., No really.  Things is just super.  Let’s all
pretend to be human
beings right up until the conference, and then
revert to being Completely
Fucking Crazy.  No sense in letting anyone down.

4nAr(hy n0w

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site
design software
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 24, 2003 at 9:21:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why not…?  If I wuz in NYC I’d go.  I’m sure it has a great plot or
sumthin'<

LOL, yep, I went, but no Keith Stroup, nor Dana Beal. Darn it. I was lookin’
out for fireworks too, to sorta add the fesitivities, but no luck.
Just Pot Luck.
;-))
Oh, and on another note, It’s still one of my favorite mags, and no one paid
me to say it either…ssshhhh Steve B.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….

On [Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 10:56:02AM -0400], [Dana Beal] wrote:

| >From:
| >”Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
| >Date:
| >2003/09/24 Wed AM 07:11:31 CDT
| >To:
| ><ibogaine@mindvox.com>
| >Subject:
| >Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners  won’t back ibo
| >
| >wow, talk about alternate realities.
| >rich people have different lives and things than do I, that’s  for
sure.
| >Peace,
| >Preston
| >—– Original Message —–
| >From: Allison    Senepart
| >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19    AM
| >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T.    owners won’t back ibo
| >
| >That is so sick and so much a joke it reads like some
| >really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or indeed a
| >joke.   Allison
|
| Not a joke, but quite ironic, that H.T. has had the ibogaine info
| since 1985, and Marc (Cannabis Culture) has done more about it in 12
| mos than the Kennedys have done about it in 20 years!

Oh shush.  High Times is my VERY FAVORITE magazine in the whole entire
world.  Or, I mean, it could be … if someone paid me to say that (Steve
Bloom please take note).  Never actually read it.  Flipping through it at
the newsstand it appears to have more pictures of semi-naked chicks than I
remembered.  There’s an improvement.

| That’s because H.T. is ultimately run by folks who are drug lawyers,
| not drug users.
|
| Patrick, do you think I’ll get in trouble with Ethan for saying this
| on list?

Dana, I think Ethan UNDERSTANDS that you’re doing just fabulous.  In fact,
we’re gonna go right ahead and increase your medication to triple the
current dose.  The results speak for themselves.

Besides, I’m only responsible for you the DAY OF … plus, also, Howard is
partially to blame and has to hold your leash when my hand gets tired.

“That’s IT!  All of you GET THE HELL OUT.”

| I’ve been very good about avoiding Keith Stroup–not going
| to the screening of “Potluck” today, for instance.
|
|
| Dana/cnw

Why not…?  If I wuz in NYC I’d go.  I’m sure it has a great plot or
sumthin’

Patrick

p.s., No really.  Things is just super.  Let’s all pretend to be human
beings right up until the conference, and then revert to being Completely
Fucking Crazy.  No sense in letting anyone down.

4nAr(hy n0w

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ah–but it’s not about pot…
Date: September 24, 2003 at 7:57:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s about legalization. Ibogaine IS illegal, y’know. Ethan Nadelman runs the Drug Policy Alliance, which is mainly about legalizing heroin and promoting methadone/buprenorphin.  Not legalizing pot so much– maybe medical marijuana. The big mystery is why they’re stand-offish toward ibo, when in theory they’re for legalizing psychedelics. (Big MDMA supporters, they are).

Getting this little panel represents a big development with them, but it’ll be at the same time as twelve other panels. It’s not one of the plenary presentations.

From:
Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>

Date:
2003/09/24 Wed PM 06:05:58 CDT

To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject:
Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….

I understand that you guys are mostly joking here
between yourselves. What I wanted to bring up is that
after years of reading this from the outside it
doesn’t make any more sense to me now then it did back
then. I am in no way putting down the cannabis
movement, I am only saying that I don’t understand
what all the problems between all of you are or why
they’re so big that you look like you spend a lot of
your time and energy fighting each other instead of
agreeing to do something.

The problem is that they’ve been ignoring ibo, so I had to do a little protest at their conference 2 years ago, which produced a commitment from Ethan to do this workshop. Ethan works for Soros, BTW.

I do understand that a lot of you have relationships
that have nothing to do with the list and a lot
happens in the background but for instance I liked the
libertarian party blog when I first heard about it,
but I understand exactly zilch about who any of the
involved people are, why Patrick is spending his time
rewriting what Dana Beal meant to say or why so many
people link to this one blog which is a great letter
but why why why is so much time spent with all the
factions of the cannabis movement which I admit I do
not understand as I said when I started this message,
fighting about??

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html
http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

I am in no way putting down any of the positive things
anyone does. I am only saying that the internal
politics of the cannabis reform movement make
absolutely no sense to anybody except all of you who
are involved with it and I guess Patrick who is
rewriting who meant to say what 😉 And that is not a
dis! You realy should run for office Patrick 😉

The thing is, the biggest portion of the legalization movement is grassroots cannabis activists, most of whom by now know about and support ibo. Thanks to the efforts of yours truly, for which I took a lot of shit, largely cause I ran into nn initial gatekeeper at H.T. (Dean Latimer) whose reaction to ibo was “Why would anyone want to quit heroin.” (He was their house opiate afficianado–most of the rest of them being into pot and coke.)

 

I don’t know who Ethan is, who Keith Stroup is

Head of NORML–very down on the association of pot with LSD. (But he lost his job in 1978 because of coke). Says Ibogaine is crazy,  and tries to discredit the idea of activists promoting ibo as a way of protecting  the counter-cultural opposition from going down the vortex of addiction.

who the
Kennedys are,

Big players in both the DPA and NORML–plus they have the money and contacts that could have moved Ibo forward thru clinical trials anytime they really tried. Keep in mind that the second article about Lotsof and his discovery to appear in the whole world was written by Steve Hager of High Times. (The first was in the Yippie paper OVERTHROW.)

who Steve Bloom is,

Once refused to fund a mailing because it would also contain something on ibo…

who anybody
mentioned in these messages is other then some people
involved with selling pot, selling pot magazines or
??????
Carla B

But H.T., as I said, was not intended by its founder Tom Forcade to be a pot magazine, and that’s what the argument is about. Hager became editor-in-chief & turned it into one two or three years  after that initial ibo article. (Which was an improvement on centerfolds of coke). In the past 10 years they’ve kinda stopped writing about ibo, cause DPA, NORML and the Kennedys circled the wagons in support of the status quo, which included methadone, clean needles, and heroin trials…but not Ibogaine.

Dana/cnw

From: Michael Synergy <synergy_1959@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 24, 2003 at 7:35:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla you can remove cannabis and replace it with
almost anything else. Oil, politics, sports. All the
arguments are about the same things all people argue
about. Money, ego and who’s right or wrong.

Try explaining the past and present of ibogaine to
someone who just walked in the room. Not a big
difference. You have the pot calling the kettle black.
Ibogaine is the biggest psychedelic soap opera going
and has no more unity among the players then any other
group mentioned. Except on top of that try explaining
what ibogaine even does.

The difference is ibogaine has been financially backed
in many ways by the cannabis movement over a long
time.

Keith Stroup is from NORML. Ethan is Ethan Nadelman
who runs the Drug Policy Alliance which used to be the
Lindesmith center that merged with the Drug Policy
Foundation. Steve Bloom is a editor at High Times.
Kennedys are some of the owners of High Times which
has been owned by Tom Forcade’s lawyers since he
comitted suicide. High Times is not in favor with
cannabis reform activists because it is charged with
not doing anything except selling magazines and
capitalizing on a lifestyle.

-Syn

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
I understand that you guys are mostly joking here
between yourselves. What I wanted to bring up is
that
after years of reading this from the outside it
doesn’t make any more sense to me now then it did
back
then. I am in no way putting down the cannabis
movement, I am only saying that I don’t understand
what all the problems between all of you are or why
they’re so big that you look like you spend a lot of
your time and energy fighting each other instead of
agreeing to do something.

I do understand that a lot of you have relationships
that have nothing to do with the list and a lot
happens in the background but for instance I liked
the
libertarian party blog when I first heard about it,
but I understand exactly zilch about who any of the
involved people are, why Patrick is spending his
time
rewriting what Dana Beal meant to say or why so many
people link to this one blog which is a great letter
but why why why is so much time spent with all the
factions of the cannabis movement which I admit I do
not understand as I said when I started this
message,
fighting about??

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html
http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

I am in no way putting down any of the positive
things
anyone does. I am only saying that the internal
politics of the cannabis reform movement make
absolutely no sense to anybody except all of you who
are involved with it and I guess Patrick who is
rewriting who meant to say what 😉 And that is not
a
dis! You realy should run for office Patrick 😉

I don’t know who Ethan is, who Keith Stroup is who
the
Kennedys are, who Steve Bloom is, who anybody
mentioned in these messages is other then some
people
involved with selling pot, selling pot magazines or
??????

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 10:56:02AM -0400], [Dana
Beal] wrote:

| >From:
| >”Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
| >Date:
| >2003/09/24 Wed AM 07:11:31 CDT
| >To:
| ><ibogaine@mindvox.com>
| >Subject:
| >Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners  won’t back
ibo
| >
| >wow, talk about alternate realities.
| >rich people have different lives and things
than
do I, that’s  for sure.
| >Peace,
| >Preston
| >—– Original Message —–
| >From: Allison    Senepart
| >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19    AM
| >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T.    owners
won’t back ibo
| >
| >That is so sick and so much a joke it reads
like
some
| >really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or
indeed a
| >joke.   Allison
|
| Not a joke, but quite ironic, that H.T. has had
the ibogaine info
| since 1985, and Marc (Cannabis Culture) has done
more about it in 12
| mos than the Kennedys have done about it in 20
years!

Oh shush.  High Times is my VERY FAVORITE magazine
in the whole entire
world.  Or, I mean, it could be … if someone
paid
me to say that (Steve
Bloom please take note).  Never actually read it.
Flipping through it at
the newsstand it appears to have more pictures of
semi-naked chicks than I
remembered.  There’s an improvement.

| That’s because H.T. is ultimately run by folks
who
are drug lawyers,
| not drug users.
|
| Patrick, do you think I’ll get in trouble with
Ethan for saying this
| on list?

Dana, I think Ethan UNDERSTANDS that you’re doing
just fabulous.  In fact,
we’re gonna go right ahead and increase your
medication to triple the
current dose.  The results speak for themselves.

Besides, I’m only responsible for you the DAY OF

plus, also, Howard is
partially to blame and has to hold your leash when
my hand gets tired.

“That’s IT!  All of you GET THE HELL OUT.”

| I’ve been very good about avoiding Keith
Stroup–not going
| to the screening of “Potluck” today, for
instance.
|
|
| Dana/cnw

Why not…?  If I wuz in NYC I’d go.  I’m sure it
has a great plot or
sumthin’

Patrick

p.s., No really.  Things is just super.  Let’s all
pretend to be human
beings right up until the conference, and then
revert to being Completely
Fucking Crazy.  No sense in letting anyone down.

4nAr(hy n0w

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site
design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 24, 2003 at 7:05:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I understand that you guys are mostly joking here
between yourselves. What I wanted to bring up is that
after years of reading this from the outside it
doesn’t make any more sense to me now then it did back
then. I am in no way putting down the cannabis
movement, I am only saying that I don’t understand
what all the problems between all of you are or why
they’re so big that you look like you spend a lot of
your time and energy fighting each other instead of
agreeing to do something.

I do understand that a lot of you have relationships
that have nothing to do with the list and a lot
happens in the background but for instance I liked the
libertarian party blog when I first heard about it,
but I understand exactly zilch about who any of the
involved people are, why Patrick is spending his time
rewriting what Dana Beal meant to say or why so many
people link to this one blog which is a great letter
but why why why is so much time spent with all the
factions of the cannabis movement which I admit I do
not understand as I said when I started this message,
fighting about??

http://billstclair.com/blog/020723.html
http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

I am in no way putting down any of the positive things
anyone does. I am only saying that the internal
politics of the cannabis reform movement make
absolutely no sense to anybody except all of you who
are involved with it and I guess Patrick who is
rewriting who meant to say what 😉 And that is not a
dis! You realy should run for office Patrick 😉

I don’t know who Ethan is, who Keith Stroup is who the
Kennedys are, who Steve Bloom is, who anybody
mentioned in these messages is other then some people
involved with selling pot, selling pot magazines or
??????

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 10:56:02AM -0400], [Dana
Beal] wrote:

| >From:
| >”Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
| >Date:
| >2003/09/24 Wed AM 07:11:31 CDT
| >To:
| ><ibogaine@mindvox.com>
| >Subject:
| >Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners  won’t back
ibo
| >
| >wow, talk about alternate realities.
| >rich people have different lives and things than
do I, that’s  for sure.
| >Peace,
| >Preston
| >—– Original Message —–
| >From: Allison    Senepart
| >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19    AM
| >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T.    owners
won’t back ibo
| >
| >That is so sick and so much a joke it reads like
some
| >really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or
indeed a
| >joke.   Allison
|
| Not a joke, but quite ironic, that H.T. has had
the ibogaine info
| since 1985, and Marc (Cannabis Culture) has done
more about it in 12
| mos than the Kennedys have done about it in 20
years!

Oh shush.  High Times is my VERY FAVORITE magazine
in the whole entire
world.  Or, I mean, it could be … if someone paid
me to say that (Steve
Bloom please take note).  Never actually read it.
Flipping through it at
the newsstand it appears to have more pictures of
semi-naked chicks than I
remembered.  There’s an improvement.

| That’s because H.T. is ultimately run by folks who
are drug lawyers,
| not drug users.
|
| Patrick, do you think I’ll get in trouble with
Ethan for saying this
| on list?

Dana, I think Ethan UNDERSTANDS that you’re doing
just fabulous.  In fact,
we’re gonna go right ahead and increase your
medication to triple the
current dose.  The results speak for themselves.

Besides, I’m only responsible for you the DAY OF …
plus, also, Howard is
partially to blame and has to hold your leash when
my hand gets tired.

“That’s IT!  All of you GET THE HELL OUT.”

| I’ve been very good about avoiding Keith
Stroup–not going
| to the screening of “Potluck” today, for instance.
|
|
| Dana/cnw

Why not…?  If I wuz in NYC I’d go.  I’m sure it
has a great plot or
sumthin’

Patrick

p.s., No really.  Things is just super.  Let’s all
pretend to be human
beings right up until the conference, and then
revert to being Completely
Fucking Crazy.  No sense in letting anyone down.

4nAr(hy n0w

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 24, 2003 at 3:16:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 10:56:02AM -0400], [Dana Beal] wrote:

| >From:
| >”Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
| >Date:
| >2003/09/24 Wed AM 07:11:31 CDT
| >To:
| ><ibogaine@mindvox.com>
| >Subject:
| >Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners  won’t back ibo
| >
| >wow, talk about alternate realities.
| >rich people have different lives and things than do I, that’s  for sure.
| >Peace,
| >Preston
| >—– Original Message —–
| >From: Allison    Senepart
| >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
| >Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19    AM
| >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T.    owners won’t back ibo
| >
| >That is so sick and so much a joke it reads like some
| >really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or indeed a
| >joke.   Allison
|
| Not a joke, but quite ironic, that H.T. has had the ibogaine info
| since 1985, and Marc (Cannabis Culture) has done more about it in 12
| mos than the Kennedys have done about it in 20 years!

Oh shush.  High Times is my VERY FAVORITE magazine in the whole entire
world.  Or, I mean, it could be … if someone paid me to say that (Steve
Bloom please take note).  Never actually read it.  Flipping through it at
the newsstand it appears to have more pictures of semi-naked chicks than I
remembered.  There’s an improvement.

| That’s because H.T. is ultimately run by folks who are drug lawyers,
| not drug users.
|
| Patrick, do you think I’ll get in trouble with Ethan for saying this
| on list?

Dana, I think Ethan UNDERSTANDS that you’re doing just fabulous.  In fact,
we’re gonna go right ahead and increase your medication to triple the
current dose.  The results speak for themselves.

Besides, I’m only responsible for you the DAY OF … plus, also, Howard is
partially to blame and has to hold your leash when my hand gets tired.

“That’s IT!  All of you GET THE HELL OUT.”

| I’ve been very good about avoiding Keith Stroup–not going
| to the screening of “Potluck” today, for instance.
|
|
| Dana/cnw

Why not…?  If I wuz in NYC I’d go.  I’m sure it has a great plot or
sumthin’

Patrick

p.s., No really.  Things is just super.  Let’s all pretend to be human
beings right up until the conference, and then revert to being Completely
Fucking Crazy.  No sense in letting anyone down.

4nAr(hy n0w

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National Newspaper “The Guardian”
Date: September 24, 2003 at 9:14:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:20:38 +1200 (New Zealand Standard
Time)
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National
Newspaper “The Guardian”
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

The following article was good to read and also to
know
that knowledge of ibogaine is hopefully growing.  It seems
daft
to me that search of improvement in drug treatment can be
so
closed minded when it costs so much money to support
methadone
clinics etc. if there is an alternative.   It
just
adds scepticism to the mass of propoganda we get fed every
day.

Hi Alison,

Dan Pinchbeck, the writer, and a guy called Steve have also
shot a documentary on the drug and are trying to get media
interest. Following the piece in The Guardian I heard that
Channel 4 might be interested, which would be great, though
they’ve been busy with ibogaine before without actually doing
anything in the end. There’s also Dan’s book, called Breaking
Open the Head, or something like that, just published. Has
anyone read it yet? Is it good?

Also I was wondering about the theory that we humans only
use a
small part of available brain or thought process.  Does
the
ibogaine open up parts of the mind that we are not aware of
but
are unused or part of the subconscious.    ……Allison

Well things kind of spaaaaaaaaace out a bit when you start to
move from “the mind is in the head” (rational materialism)
to “where actually IS the mind”, (psychoactive use
commences!) so our science can’t really go there
meaningfully. At the end of the day the mind only imagines it
has an owner anyway!

PS  Is ibogaine legal in the
UK???

Legal to take, pretty much, though currently still threatened
with control under new legislation to curb casual use of
herbal remedies believed to be dangerous. Not legal to
supply, being a recognized psychoactive substance.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Wire: OPED: Arrest MS, Not Patients
Date: September 24, 2003 at 2:03:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Richard Lake” <rlake@mapinc.org>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Wire: OPED: Arrest MS, Not Patients

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1447/a11.html

Pubdate: Mon, 21 Sep 2003
Source: United Press International (Wire)
Copyright: 2003 United Press International
Author: Paul Armentano
Note: The author is a senior policy analyst for the NORML Foundation, a
group that supports the liberalization of America’s marijuana laws, in
Washington.
Also: The first photos of the march on Washington are on line at
http://www.cheryldcmemorial.org/92203_ms_pts_ms_soc.htm – more to follow.
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/people/Cheryl+Miller

ARREST MS, NOT PATIENTS

WASHINGTON, Sept. 22 (UPI) — A potential breakthrough in the treatment of
multiple sclerosis could lie on the horizon, and it may come from an
unlikely
source: marijuana.

According to clinical findings published in the most recent issue of the
journal Brain, cannabinoids (ingredients in marijuana) offer
neuroprotection
against allergic encephalomyelitis (EAE), an animal model of MS. After
analyzing the findings, authors at London’s Institute of Neurology
concluded,
“In addition to symptom management, cannabis may also slow down the
neurodegenerative processes that ultimately lead to chronic disability in
multiple sclerosis and probably other diseases.”

Their statement gives hope to the estimated 350,000 patients in the United
States living with MS, a debilitating and sometimes fatal disorder of the
central nervous system. Although previous human studies have indicated
that pot
may provide therapeutic relief to common symptoms of MS such as muscle
spasms,
tremor, and incontinence, the London study is one of the first to indicate
that
cannabinoids may also potentially stave off the disease.

Unfortunately, far too many politicians remain in the dark about
marijuana’s
medicinal value, with many in Congress opting to punish medicinal pot
patients
rather than support them. In an effort to change this view, dozens of MS
patients who use marijuana therapeutically are descending on Washington
this
week to bring needed attention to the medicinal marijuana issue. Patients
will
be holding a candlelight vigil in front of the Supreme Court in honor of
Cheryl
Miller — a longtime medical marijuana activist who died of MS-related
complications in June — as well as a press conference with various
members of
Congress in support of House Bill 2233, the “States’ Rights to Medical
Marijuana Act.”

“Throughout much of her life, Cheryl risked arrest and jail to use the
only
medication that alleviated her suffering,” remembers her husband Jim
Miller,
organizer of the patient march on Washington. “I hope that by bringing
attention to the plight of my late wife Cheryl, I can hasten the day when
marijuana will be made available so that others are no longer needlessly
forced
to suffer with pain or risk arrest.”

Further research on the use of marijuana as a medicine is forthcoming.
Nevertheless, it appears that many MS sufferers have already learned what
the
scientific community is just now discovering. For example, a recent
British
survey of MS patients found that 43 percent of respondents used marijuana
therapeutically. Among them, nearly three quarters said that pot mitigated
their spasms, and more than half said it alleviated their pain.

Clinical data published in the spring edition of the journal Clinical
Rehabilitation affirmed these perceptions. The study, performed by
researchers
at Oxford University, found that MS patients administered whole-plant
marijuana
extracts experienced improved pain relief, bladder control, and spasticity
compared to placebo. As a result, these pot extracts are now being
evaluated by
the UK’s National Institute for Clinical Excellence, which is expected to
make
a decision regarding the drugs’ legalization this fall.

Meanwhile, a survey published last month in the Canadian Journal of
Neurological Sciences reported that 96 percent of Canadian MS patients
believe
that marijuana is therapeutically useful for treating the disease. Of
those who
admitted using marijuana medicinally, the majority found it to be
beneficial,
particularly in the treatment of chronic pain, spasticity and depression.

With scientific evidence mounting and large numbers of MS sufferers
already
using marijuana medicinally, it’s time to for Congress to acknowledge
pot’s
emerging role as a therapeutic agent, and stand up for the rights of
patients
who ease their pain and suffering through the use of marijuana.
– —

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] The irony of it….
Date: September 24, 2003 at 10:56:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From:
“Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

Date:
2003/09/24 Wed AM 07:11:31 CDT

To:
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Subject:
Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners  won’t back ibo

wow, talk about alternate realities.
rich people have different lives and things than do I, that’s  for sure.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison    Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19    AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T.    owners won’t back ibo
That is so sick and so much a joke it reads like some          really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or indeed a          joke.   Allison

Not a joke, but quite ironic, that H.T. has had the ibogaine info since 1985, and Marc (Cannabis Culture) has done more about it in 12 mos than the Kennedys have done about it in 20 years!

That’s because H.T. is ultimately run by folks who are drug lawyers, not drug users.

Patrick, do you think I’ll get in trouble with Ethan for saying this on list? I’ve been very good about avoiding Keith Stroup–not going to the screening of “Potluck” today, for instance.

Dana/cnw

From:
sbloom <sbloom@hightimes.com>   Block Sender  |  Block Domain

Date:
2003/09/15 Mon PM 01:39:05 CDT

To:
Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>

Subject:
HIGH TIMES’ Potluck movie screenings

Dana,

You and supporters of Cures Not Wars are cordially invited to attend a
screening of HIGH TIMES’ Potluck, the first feature movie from HIGH
TIMES. The movie is opening on Oct. 17.

The screenings will be held on the following dates:

Wed., Sept. 17 – 8:15 pm
Wed., Sept. 24 – 6 pm

The screenings will take place at the Sony Screening Room (550 Madison
Ave.). Go to the Sky Lobby and you will directed to the screening room.
All attendees must have ID.

RSVP directly to bloom@hightimes.com or 212-387-0500 x201.

I hope to see you at one of the screenings.

Steve Bloom
HIGH TIMES

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners won’t back ibo
Date: September 24, 2003 at 8:11:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wow, talk about alternate realities.
rich people have different lives and things than do I, that’s for sure.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners won’t back ibo

That is so sick and so much a joke it reads like some really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or indeed a joke.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 24 September 2003 12:18:51 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners won’t back ibo

O yeah–adding insult to injury, a few years back,  the Conservancy also kicked the smoke-in out of the park.

Miichael and Eleanor own 72% of High Times. Last summer Miichael refused to meet w. reps of the Black Community re Ibo.

Subject:
Eleanore Kennedy: $1,000 Prk Vu, Dinner and Wine Included

September 18, 2003
By CHRISTOPHER MASON

“THE dog just ate my shoe,” Eleanore Kennedy told John
Loring, the patrician design director of Tiffany & Company,
as he arrived at her 23rd floor apartment at Hampshire
House, on Central Park South, on Monday afternoon. He had
come to put finishing touches on decorations for the dinner
party she was giving that night for nine guests, including
Sigourney Weaver and Bianca Jagger.

A chewed-up shoe was the least of Mrs. Kennedy’s problems.
How about organizing what had swelled to 160 fetes in one
night? Moguls, movie stars, politicians and plain old
Central Park-loving billionaires were converging for
$1,000-a-head repasts that would turn the park itself into
a dinner table – an upscale version of Leonard’s of Great
Neck, the Long Island banqueting palace.

It was Mrs. Kennedy who had come up with the idea of
holding dinner parties at apartments with views of Central
Park (and Cai Guo-Qiang’s light show over the reservoir) to
raise money for the Central Park Conservancy. But the real
feast would be on the views inside the hosts’ lavish homes.

Troubling news arrived at 4:15 p.m., when Mrs. Kennedy got
word about the eagerly anticipated dinner party scheduled
to take place at Bill Clinton’s office in Harlem, with its
splendid view of Central Park. Not only was Mr. Clinton
detained in California and unable to attend, but now, she
was told, everyone had to be out by 9 p.m., which meant
that Star Jones, Representative Charles B. Rangel and the
Manhattan borough president, C. Virginia Fields, were to be
sent packing, Cinderella-like, at an hour when most good
parties would just be shifting into second gear.

Was she planning to intervene on the conservancy’s behalf?
“I’m up to my ears in gardenias right now,” Mrs. Kennedy
said with a sigh. “I’m not going to start tracking down
Hillary Clinton.”

Downstairs, on the 19th floor, Baroness Mariuccia
Zerilli-Marimr, the founder of the Casa Italiana
Zerilli-Marimr, the center for Italian studies at New York
University, discussed the lobster and Champagne risotto
with the caterers from Acquolina before dashing off to Mass
at the United Nations, where she is a member of the
Permanent Observer Mission of the Holy See. She had never
met most of the people who had booked space at her three
tables. “I couldn’t ask my friends to pay $1,000,” Baroness
Zerilli-Marimr said. “So I’m meeting very nice people who
are surely nice because they help the park.”

Others were understandably cautious about inviting
strangers into their art-filled homes. Eliot L. Spitzer,
the New York State attorney general, was giving a dinner
with his wife, Silda Wall Spitzer, in their Fifth Avenue
apartment. But white collar criminals under threat of
indictment who hoped to cozy up to the attorney general
over fireworks, Champagne and supper catered by “21” were
out of luck. The presumably felon-free soiree was open only
to friends of the Spitzers.

At 6:30 p.m., a Party Rental truck festooned with pink
hippopotamuses was double-parked outside 1040 Fifth Avenue,
and florists, caterers and party designers were scurrying
to put last-minute touches on the five benefit parties
being held there.

In the penthouse, Tina Flaherty was trying to switch from
Scott Joplin to music befitting a dinner catered by La
Grenouille. “We’ve got French food and French flowers,”
Mrs. Flaherty told her husband, William E. Flaherty. “Put
on the Aznavour.”

While Charles Aznavour was thanking heaven for little girls
in the penthouse, bird song was being piped throughout the
15th-floor apartment of Julia Koch and David Koch, the
investor, an apartment that had formerly belonged to
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and had undergone two years of
multimillion-dollar renovations. It was one of the hottest
tickets in town.

Guests entered an Egyptian-themed hallway with a pair of
enormous, second-century marble statues of Isis and
Antinous excavated from Hadrian’s Villa; waiters offered
drinks on silver trays. Off the drawing room, guests on the
slender terrace admired the views of the reservoir and the
Temple of Dendur. The most spectacular sight of the
evening, however, was the dining room: a sylvan paradise
conjured up by the designer John Christensen, who had laid
a green English raffia carpet, to simulate grass, over the
polished wooden floors; swathed the entire room in a
whimsical tent of yellow and white organza; and hung
hand-painted lime-green and yellow silk butterflies from
branches of wildly out-of-season apple blossoms suspended
from the ceiling.

On the 16th floor, the actress Candice Bergen and her
husband, Marshall Rose, a real estate developer, were
poised in that tense moment just before the first of their
16 guests (including Bette Midler and Tom Brokaw) were to
arrive. Ms. Bergen had a moment of panic at 7 p.m., when
the doorman announced that Liz Smith, the syndicated
columnist, was downstairs.

“Oh, dear,” Ms. Bergen said, excusing herself for a minute.
“I haven’t put my shoes on.”

On Friday afternoon, Norma Dana, one of the two chairwomen
of the event, was asked what the weather was going to be
like on Monday. “Perfect,” Mrs. Dana said, in
a tone that brooked no dissent.

Mother Nature was not so obliging. At the InterContinental
Central Park South, Mrs. Dana’s party was swarming with
baronesses from the Garden Club of Bavaria when, at 7:45
p.m., the skies opened for a torrential downpour.

“Great! I love it!” said Dr. Maria Theresia von
Wietersheim, visiting from Munich, as she stood in the
pouring rain watching the fireworks. Noelle Nikpour, a
member of the Central Park Conservancy from Arkansas who
was watching safely from behind glass, said that she had
flown from Little Rock on her Gulfstream IV to attend the
party.

Wasn’t that a long way to come to watch 4 minutes and 30
seconds of fireworks?

“Once my pilots are fired up, we go 500 miles an hour,” she
explained, cheerfully, “so I’m here in an hour and 45
minutes.”

Was that faster than flying commercial?

“I don’t really know,” Ms. Nikpour replied, sweetly.

By
8:30 p.m., celebrities were sitting down to eat at the
Mandarin Oriental Hotel, still under construction in the
AOL Time Warner Center on Columbus Circle. The dinner was
being underwritten by Steve Ross, the chairman of Related
Companies, the developer of the building. Lorraine Bracco
and Stanley Tucci – so memorably naked on a Broadway stage
together last year – sat fully clothed, and surrounded by
Robert Duvall, Michael Caine and Will Farrell of “Saturday
Night Live.”

The guests in Harlem were honoring the 9 p.m. curfew
imposed by Mr. Clinton’s staff – despite much good-natured
pleading from Sherry Bronfman, who gave the dinner with
Robin Bell-Stevens, the new executive director of
Jazzmobile. Nevertheless, Ms. Bronfman declared the evening
a success. “It was beautiful, and very romantic,” she said
the next day, “with lots of flowers and votive candles,
white wine and green-apple martinis. “We were not pushed
out,” she insisted, diplomatically. “The evening petered
out and it was graceful.”

It was 10:30 on a school night, but at Hampshire House the
party at Eleanore and Michael Kennedy’s apartment was still
in full swing, with Sigourney Weaver and Bianca Jagger
sitting side by side. Julian H. Robertson Jr., the
philanthropist, who lives in the former Alice Tully
apartment on the 27th floor, had already bid his 30 guests
adieu.

“Wasn’t that the worst thing you ever saw?” Mr. Robertson
asked departing dinner guests, firmly clutching his dog’s
leash. Like many people, he was dismayed that the
much-touted halo of fire that was to linger a thousand feet
above the reservoir had fizzled into a haze of black smoke.

Was Mr. Robertson, who with his wife, Josie, had
contributed at least $4 million to redo the pond at the
southern end of Central Park, planning to walk his dog
there now?
“No,” Mr. Robertson said, a
bit petulantly. “I’m so disappointed in the park this
evening, we’re avoiding it.”


c4634577be6bb33
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners won’t back ibo
Date: September 24, 2003 at 7:19:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is so sick and so much a joke it reads like some really bad TV soap opera.  Is it for real or indeed a joke.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 24 September 2003 12:18:51 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners won’t back ibo

O yeah–adding insult to injury, a few years back,  the Conservancy also kicked the smoke-in out of the park.

Miichael and Eleanor own 72% of High Times. Last summer Miichael refused to meet w. reps of the Black Community re Ibo.

Subject:
Eleanore Kennedy: $1,000 Prk Vu, Dinner and Wine Included

September 18, 2003
By CHRISTOPHER MASON

“THE dog just ate my shoe,” Eleanore Kennedy told John
Loring, the patrician design director of Tiffany & Company,
as he arrived at her 23rd floor apartment at Hampshire
House, on Central Park South, on Monday afternoon. He had
come to put finishing touches on decorations for the dinner
party she was giving that night for nine guests, including
Sigourney Weaver and Bianca Jagger.

A chewed-up shoe was the least of Mrs. Kennedy’s problems.
How about organizing what had swelled to 160 fetes in one
night? Moguls, movie stars, politicians and plain old
Central Park-loving billionaires were converging for
$1,000-a-head repasts that would turn the park itself into
a dinner table – an upscale version of Leonard’s of Great
Neck, the Long Island banqueting palace.

It was Mrs. Kennedy who had come up with the idea of
holding dinner parties at apartments with views of Central
Park (and Cai Guo-Qiang’s light show over the reservoir) to
raise money for the Central Park Conservancy. But the real
feast would be on the views inside the hosts’ lavish homes.

Troubling news arrived at 4:15 p.m., when Mrs. Kennedy got
word about the eagerly anticipated dinner party scheduled
to take place at Bill Clinton’s office in Harlem, with its
splendid view of Central Park. Not only was Mr. Clinton
detained in California and unable to attend, but now, she
was told, everyone had to be out by 9 p.m., which meant
that Star Jones, Representative Charles B. Rangel and the
Manhattan borough president, C. Virginia Fields, were to be
sent packing, Cinderella-like, at an hour when most good
parties would just be shifting into second gear.

Was she planning to intervene on the conservancy’s behalf?
“I’m up to my ears in gardenias right now,” Mrs. Kennedy
said with a sigh. “I’m not going to start tracking down
Hillary Clinton.”

Downstairs, on the 19th floor, Baroness Mariuccia
Zerilli-Marimr, the founder of the Casa Italiana
Zerilli-Marimr, the center for Italian studies at New York
University, discussed the lobster and Champagne risotto
with the caterers from Acquolina before dashing off to Mass
at the United Nations, where she is a member of the
Permanent Observer Mission of the Holy See. She had never
met most of the people who had booked space at her three
tables. “I couldn’t ask my friends to pay $1,000,” Baroness
Zerilli-Marimr said. “So I’m meeting very nice people who
are surely nice because they help the park.”

Others were understandably cautious about inviting
strangers into their art-filled homes. Eliot L. Spitzer,
the New York State attorney general, was giving a dinner
with his wife, Silda Wall Spitzer, in their Fifth Avenue
apartment. But white collar criminals under threat of
indictment who hoped to cozy up to the attorney general
over fireworks, Champagne and supper catered by “21” were
out of luck. The presumably felon-free soiree was open only
to friends of the Spitzers.

At 6:30 p.m., a Party Rental truck festooned with pink
hippopotamuses was double-parked outside 1040 Fifth Avenue,
and florists, caterers and party designers were scurrying
to put last-minute touches on the five benefit parties
being held there.

In the penthouse, Tina Flaherty was trying to switch from
Scott Joplin to music befitting a dinner catered by La
Grenouille. “We’ve got French food and French flowers,”
Mrs. Flaherty told her husband, William E. Flaherty. “Put
on the Aznavour.”

While Charles Aznavour was thanking heaven for little girls
in the penthouse, bird song was being piped throughout the
15th-floor apartment of Julia Koch and David Koch, the
investor, an apartment that had formerly belonged to
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and had undergone two years of
multimillion-dollar renovations. It was one of the hottest
tickets in town.

Guests entered an Egyptian-themed hallway with a pair of
enormous, second-century marble statues of Isis and
Antinous excavated from Hadrian’s Villa; waiters offered
drinks on silver trays. Off the drawing room, guests on the
slender terrace admired the views of the reservoir and the
Temple of Dendur. The most spectacular sight of the
evening, however, was the dining room: a sylvan paradise
conjured up by the designer John Christensen, who had laid
a green English raffia carpet, to simulate grass, over the
polished wooden floors; swathed the entire room in a
whimsical tent of yellow and white organza; and hung
hand-painted lime-green and yellow silk butterflies from
branches of wildly out-of-season apple blossoms suspended
from the ceiling.

On the 16th floor, the actress Candice Bergen and her
husband, Marshall Rose, a real estate developer, were
poised in that tense moment just before the first of their
16 guests (including Bette Midler and Tom Brokaw) were to
arrive. Ms. Bergen had a moment of panic at 7 p.m., when
the doorman announced that Liz Smith, the syndicated
columnist, was downstairs.

“Oh, dear,” Ms. Bergen said, excusing herself for a minute.
“I haven’t put my shoes on.”

On Friday afternoon, Norma Dana, one of the two chairwomen
of the event, was asked what the weather was going to be
like on Monday. “Perfect,” Mrs. Dana said, in
a tone that brooked no dissent.

Mother Nature was not so obliging. At the InterContinental
Central Park South, Mrs. Dana’s party was swarming with
baronesses from the Garden Club of Bavaria when, at 7:45
p.m., the skies opened for a torrential downpour.

“Great! I love it!” said Dr. Maria Theresia von
Wietersheim, visiting from Munich, as she stood in the
pouring rain watching the fireworks. Noelle Nikpour, a
member of the Central Park Conservancy from Arkansas who
was watching safely from behind glass, said that she had
flown from Little Rock on her Gulfstream IV to attend the
party.

Wasn’t that a long way to come to watch 4 minutes and 30
seconds of fireworks?

“Once my pilots are fired up, we go 500 miles an hour,” she
explained, cheerfully, “so I’m here in an hour and 45
minutes.”

Was that faster than flying commercial?

“I don’t really know,” Ms. Nikpour replied, sweetly.

By
8:30 p.m., celebrities were sitting down to eat at the
Mandarin Oriental Hotel, still under construction in the
AOL Time Warner Center on Columbus Circle. The dinner was
being underwritten by Steve Ross, the chairman of Related
Companies, the developer of the building. Lorraine Bracco
and Stanley Tucci – so memorably naked on a Broadway stage
together last year – sat fully clothed, and surrounded by
Robert Duvall, Michael Caine and Will Farrell of “Saturday
Night Live.”

The guests in Harlem were honoring the 9 p.m. curfew
imposed by Mr. Clinton’s staff – despite much good-natured
pleading from Sherry Bronfman, who gave the dinner with
Robin Bell-Stevens, the new executive director of
Jazzmobile. Nevertheless, Ms. Bronfman declared the evening
a success. “It was beautiful, and very romantic,” she said
the next day, “with lots of flowers and votive candles,
white wine and green-apple martinis. “We were not pushed
out,” she insisted, diplomatically. “The evening petered
out and it was graceful.”

It was 10:30 on a school night, but at Hampshire House the
party at Eleanore and Michael Kennedy’s apartment was still
in full swing, with Sigourney Weaver and Bianca Jagger
sitting side by side. Julian H. Robertson Jr., the
philanthropist, who lives in the former Alice Tully
apartment on the 27th floor, had already bid his 30 guests
adieu.

“Wasn’t that the worst thing you ever saw?” Mr. Robertson
asked departing dinner guests, firmly clutching his dog’s
leash. Like many people, he was dismayed that the
much-touted halo of fire that was to linger a thousand feet
above the reservoir had fizzled into a haze of black smoke.

Was Mr. Robertson, who with his wife, Josie, had
contributed at least $4 million to redo the pond at the
southern end of Central Park, planning to walk his dog
there now?
“No,” Mr. Robertson said, a
bit petulantly. “I’m so disappointed in the park this
evening, we’re avoiding it.”


c4634577be6bb33
____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Too bad H.T. owners won’t back ibo
Date: September 23, 2003 at 8:16:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

O yeah–adding insult to injury, a few years back,  the Conservancy also kicked the smoke-in out of the park.

Miichael and Eleanor own 72% of High Times. Last summer Miichael refused to meet w. reps of the Black Community re Ibo.

Subject:
Eleanore Kennedy: $1,000 Prk Vu, Dinner and Wine Included

September 18, 2003
By CHRISTOPHER MASON

“THE dog just ate my shoe,” Eleanore Kennedy told John
Loring, the patrician design director of Tiffany & Company,
as he arrived at her 23rd floor apartment at Hampshire
House, on Central Park South, on Monday afternoon. He had
come to put finishing touches on decorations for the dinner
party she was giving that night for nine guests, including
Sigourney Weaver and Bianca Jagger.

A chewed-up shoe was the least of Mrs. Kennedy’s problems.
How about organizing what had swelled to 160 fetes in one
night? Moguls, movie stars, politicians and plain old
Central Park-loving billionaires were converging for
$1,000-a-head repasts that would turn the park itself into
a dinner table – an upscale version of Leonard’s of Great
Neck, the Long Island banqueting palace.

It was Mrs. Kennedy who had come up with the idea of
holding dinner parties at apartments with views of Central
Park (and Cai Guo-Qiang’s light show over the reservoir) to
raise money for the Central Park Conservancy. But the real
feast would be on the views inside the hosts’ lavish homes.

Troubling news arrived at 4:15 p.m., when Mrs. Kennedy got
word about the eagerly anticipated dinner party scheduled
to take place at Bill Clinton’s office in Harlem, with its
splendid view of Central Park. Not only was Mr. Clinton
detained in California and unable to attend, but now, she
was told, everyone had to be out by 9 p.m., which meant
that Star Jones, Representative Charles B. Rangel and the
Manhattan borough president, C. Virginia Fields, were to be
sent packing, Cinderella-like, at an hour when most good
parties would just be shifting into second gear.

Was she planning to intervene on the conservancy’s behalf?
“I’m up to my ears in gardenias right now,” Mrs. Kennedy
said with a sigh. “I’m not going to start tracking down
Hillary Clinton.”

Downstairs, on the 19th floor, Baroness Mariuccia
Zerilli-Marimr, the founder of the Casa Italiana
Zerilli-Marimr, the center for Italian studies at New York
University, discussed the lobster and Champagne risotto
with the caterers from Acquolina before dashing off to Mass
at the United Nations, where she is a member of the
Permanent Observer Mission of the Holy See. She had never
met most of the people who had booked space at her three
tables. “I couldn’t ask my friends to pay $1,000,” Baroness
Zerilli-Marimr said. “So I’m meeting very nice people who
are surely nice because they help the park.”

Others were understandably cautious about inviting
strangers into their art-filled homes. Eliot L. Spitzer,
the New York State attorney general, was giving a dinner
with his wife, Silda Wall Spitzer, in their Fifth Avenue
apartment. But white collar criminals under threat of
indictment who hoped to cozy up to the attorney general
over fireworks, Champagne and supper catered by “21” were
out of luck. The presumably felon-free soiree was open only
to friends of the Spitzers.

At 6:30 p.m., a Party Rental truck festooned with pink
hippopotamuses was double-parked outside 1040 Fifth Avenue,
and florists, caterers and party designers were scurrying
to put last-minute touches on the five benefit parties
being held there.

In the penthouse, Tina Flaherty was trying to switch from
Scott Joplin to music befitting a dinner catered by La
Grenouille. “We’ve got French food and French flowers,”
Mrs. Flaherty told her husband, William E. Flaherty. “Put
on the Aznavour.”

While Charles Aznavour was thanking heaven for little girls
in the penthouse, bird song was being piped throughout the
15th-floor apartment of Julia Koch and David Koch, the
investor, an apartment that had formerly belonged to
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and had undergone two years of
multimillion-dollar renovations. It was one of the hottest
tickets in town.

Guests entered an Egyptian-themed hallway with a pair of
enormous, second-century marble statues of Isis and
Antinous excavated from Hadrian’s Villa; waiters offered
drinks on silver trays. Off the drawing room, guests on the
slender terrace admired the views of the reservoir and the
Temple of Dendur. The most spectacular sight of the
evening, however, was the dining room: a sylvan paradise
conjured up by the designer John Christensen, who had laid
a green English raffia carpet, to simulate grass, over the
polished wooden floors; swathed the entire room in a
whimsical tent of yellow and white organza; and hung
hand-painted lime-green and yellow silk butterflies from
branches of wildly out-of-season apple blossoms suspended
>from the ceiling.

On the 16th floor, the actress Candice Bergen and her
husband, Marshall Rose, a real estate developer, were
poised in that tense moment just before the first of their
16 guests (including Bette Midler and Tom Brokaw) were to
arrive. Ms. Bergen had a moment of panic at 7 p.m., when
the doorman announced that Liz Smith, the syndicated
columnist, was downstairs.

“Oh, dear,” Ms. Bergen said, excusing herself for a minute.
“I haven’t put my shoes on.”

On Friday afternoon, Norma Dana, one of the two chairwomen
of the event, was asked what the weather was going to be
like on Monday. “Perfect,” Mrs. Dana said, in
a tone that brooked no dissent.

Mother Nature was not so obliging. At the InterContinental
Central Park South, Mrs. Dana’s party was swarming with
baronesses from the Garden Club of Bavaria when, at 7:45
p.m., the skies opened for a torrential downpour.

“Great! I love it!” said Dr. Maria Theresia von
Wietersheim, visiting from Munich, as she stood in the
pouring rain watching the fireworks. Noelle Nikpour, a
member of the Central Park Conservancy from Arkansas who
was watching safely from behind glass, said that she had
flown from Little Rock on her Gulfstream IV to attend the
party.

Wasn’t that a long way to come to watch 4 minutes and 30
seconds of fireworks?

“Once my pilots are fired up, we go 500 miles an hour,” she
explained, cheerfully, “so I’m here in an hour and 45
minutes.”

Was that faster than flying commercial?

“I don’t really know,” Ms. Nikpour replied, sweetly.

By
8:30 p.m., celebrities were sitting down to eat at the
Mandarin Oriental Hotel, still under construction in the
AOL Time Warner Center on Columbus Circle. The dinner was
being underwritten by Steve Ross, the chairman of Related
Companies, the developer of the building. Lorraine Bracco
and Stanley Tucci – so memorably naked on a Broadway stage
together last year – sat fully clothed, and surrounded by
Robert Duvall, Michael Caine and Will Farrell of “Saturday
Night Live.”

The guests in Harlem were honoring the 9 p.m. curfew
imposed by Mr. Clinton’s staff – despite much good-natured
pleading from Sherry Bronfman, who gave the dinner with
Robin Bell-Stevens, the new executive director of
Jazzmobile. Nevertheless, Ms. Bronfman declared the evening
a success. “It was beautiful, and very romantic,” she said
the next day, “with lots of flowers and votive candles,
white wine and green-apple martinis. “We were not pushed
out,” she insisted, diplomatically. “The evening petered
out and it was graceful.”

It was 10:30 on a school night, but at Hampshire House the
party at Eleanore and Michael Kennedy’s apartment was still
in full swing, with Sigourney Weaver and Bianca Jagger
sitting side by side. Julian H. Robertson Jr., the
philanthropist, who lives in the former Alice Tully
apartment on the 27th floor, had already bid his 30 guests
adieu.

“Wasn’t that the worst thing you ever saw?” Mr. Robertson
asked departing dinner guests, firmly clutching his dog’s
leash. Like many people, he was dismayed that the
much-touted halo of fire that was to linger a thousand feet
above the reservoir had fizzled into a haze of black smoke.

Was Mr. Robertson, who with his wife, Josie, had
contributed at least $4 million to redo the pond at the
southern end of Central Park, planning to walk his dog
there now?
“No,” Mr. Robertson said, a
bit petulantly. “I’m so disappointed in the park this
evening, we’re avoiding it.”


c4634577be6bb33

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National Newspaper “The Guardian”
Date: September 23, 2003 at 7:20:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The following article was good to read and also to know that knowledge of ibogaine is hopefully growing.  It seems daft to me that search of improvement in drug treatment can be so closed minded when it costs so much money to support methadone clinics etc. if there is an alternative.   It just adds scepticism to the mass of propoganda we get fed every day.
Also I was wondering about the theory that we humans only use a small part of available brain or thought process.  Does the ibogaine open up parts of the mind that we are not aware of but are unused or part of the subconscious.    ……Allison
PS  Is ibogaine legal in the UK???
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 23 September 2003 12:02:46 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National Newspaper “The Guardian”

Hi Folks

Dont know if anyone has posted this up yet. The article below by Daniel
Pinchbeck appeared in last weekend’s Guardian. It was a pretty long article
& the New Scientist article aside a few months back (and of course Nick’s
efforts over the years) , it represents a significant exposure of the iboga
meme over here in the UK.

Paul.

> Ten years of therapy in one night
>
> Could a single trip on a piece of African rootbark help a junkie
>kick the habit? That was the claim in the 1960s, and now iboga is back in
>the spotlight. But is it a miracle cure? Daniel Pinchbeck decided to give
>it a go. And life, he says, will never be the same again…
>
> Saturday September 20, 2003
> The Guardian
>
> In 1962, Howard Lotsof, a 19-year-old heroin addict in New York,
>ordered from a chemist iboga, a plant used in West African rituals, and
>tried it for extra kicks. After consuming the bitter rootbark powder, he
>experienced a visionary tour of his early memories. Thirty hours later,
>when the effects had subsided, he found that he had lost all craving for
>heroin, without withdrawal symptoms of any kind. He said he then gave iboga
>to seven other addicts and five stopped taking drugs immediately
>afterwards.
> In 1985, Lotsof patented the ibogaine molecule for the purposes of
>addiction treatment, but could not get his treatment approved. In the
>interim years, ibogaine had been declared, along with LSD and several other
>psychedelic molecules, an illegal “schedule one” substance, with potential
>for abuse and no medical value. Although it found dedicated support among a
>ragtag group of countercultural activists and left-over Yippies, in 1995
>the National Institutes of Health discontinued research into the substance,
>and pharmaceutical companies have since ignored it, perhaps due to low
>profit potential.
>
> But now, interest in ibogaine is growing rapidly, passing a “tipping
>point” through a combination of anecdotal evidence, underground activism,
>journalism and scientific research. Articles have appeared in US
>publications ranging from the authoritative Journal Of The American Medical
>Association (Jama) to the populist Star. The Jama piece, Addiction
>Treatment Strives For Legitimacy, described the drug’s stalled and tortured
>path through the regulatory agencies, noting that the treatment’s
>frustrated supporters in the US have set up an “underground railroad” to
>give addicts access to the drug: “While unknowable scores of addicts
>continue ingesting ibogaine hydrochloride purified powder – or iboga
>whole-plant extract containing a dozen or more active alkaloids – few
>trained researchers witness the events.”
>
> The Star took a more colourful approach: “Rare Root Has Celebs
>Buzzing” it said, trumpeting the treatment as the hot ticket for “the
>numerous celebs who look for relief from their tough lives in the bottom of
>a bottle of Jack Daniel’s, a needle or prescription medicine”. The article
>insinuates that “some of our favourite A-listers” not only get cured but
>enjoy the hallucinations as an illicit “fringe benefit”. Outside the US,
>new clinics have opened in Mexico, Canada and Europe, offering reasonably
>priced, medically supervised opportunities to try ibogaine as a method of
>overcoming addiction. In fact, at one new clinic in Vancouver, the
>treatment is free.
>
> Iboga is the sacred essence of the religion of the Bwiti tribe of
>Gabon and Cameroon. Most members of the tribe ingest it just once in their
>lives, during an initiation ceremony in which massive amounts of the
>powdered bark are consumed. Through this ritual, they become a baanzi, one
>who has seen the other world. “Iboga brings about the visual, tactile and
>auditory certainty of the irrefutable existence of the beyond,” wrote the
>French chemist Robert Goutarel, who studied the Bwiti. The iboga bark’s
>visionary power is produced by a complicated cocktail of alkaloids that
>seems to affect many of the known neurotransmitters, including serotonin
>and dopamine. Its complex molecular key may lock into the addiction
>receptors in a way that resets patterns and blocks the feedback loops that
>reinforce dependency.
>
> In an essay on ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties, Dr Carl
>Anderson of McLean Hospital, Virginia, speculated that addiction is related
>to a disrupted relationship between the brain’s two hemispheres, and that
>ibogaine may cause “bihemispheric reintegration”. Ibogaine also accesses
>REM sleep in a powerful way – many people need considerably less sleep for
>several months after an ibogaine trip.
>
> Six years ago, I became a member of the Bwiti. I had heard about
>ibogaine from an assistant in an anarchist bookstore in New York. On a
>magazine assignment, I went to Gabon and took iboga in an initiation
>ceremony. It was one of the most difficult, yet rewarding, experiences of
>my life. I had heard the substance described as “10 years of psychoanalysis
>in a single night” but, of course, I did not believe it. As the tribesmen
>played drums and sang around me until dawn, I lay on a concrete floor and
>journeyed back through the course of my life up to that point, witnessing
>forgotten scenes from childhood. At one point, I had a vision of a wooden
>statue walking across the room and sitting in front of me – later, I was
>told this was “the spirit of iboga” coming out to communicate with me.
>
> My Bwiti initiation was complicated by a belligerent, greedy shaman
>who called himself The King and demanded more money from us before, during
>and after the ceremony. The King was also dissatisfied with the visions I
>described, and threatened to keep feeding me more iboga until I reported
>more impressive sights. The initiation, which lasted more than 20 hours,
>was ultimately liberating. At one point, I was shown my habitual overuse of
>alcohol and the effect it was having on my relationships, my writing and my
>psyche. When I returned to the US, I steadily reduced my drinking to a
>fraction of its previous level – an adjustment that seems to be permanent.
>
> Recently, I tried ibogaine for a second time. I took it at the
>Ibogaine Association, a clinic in Rosarito, Mexico. I had been contacted by
>a heroin addict who had been inspired to take ibogaine after reading the
>book I wrote about my experiences: three months after his first treatment
>in Mexico, he was still clean – after a 12-year dependency. He told me,
>”Your book saved my life.” He had given Dr Martin Polanco, the clinic’s
>founder, a copy of my book, and he had offered me a free treatment. I was
>curious to see how the experience would differ away from its tribal
>context. My new friend wanted to take it again to reinforce the effect. We
>went down together.
>
> Polanco estimates that his clinic has treated nearly 200 addicts in
>its first 18 months. About one third of those patients have managed to stay
>clean – either permanently or for a considerable period; many have returned
>for a second treatment. “Ibogaine needs to be much more widely available,”
>Polanco says. “We still have a lot to learn about how to administer it, how
>to work with it.” He does not think iboga is a cure for addiction, but is
>convinced it is a powerful tool for treatment – and, in some cases, it is a
>cure. He plans to set up several non-profit clinics. “This is something
>that should be non-profit,” he says. “After all, it is a plant. It came up
>from the earth. It does give you some guidance. It shows you how you really
>are.” He chuckles. “That can be scary.”
>
> The Ibogaine Therapy House in Vancouver, British Columbia, opened
>last November. “So far, we have treated 14 people quite well,” says Marc
>Emery, the clinic’s founder and head of the BC Marijuana Party. “They all
>say that their life has improved.” Emery, nicknamed the “Prince of Pot”, is
>funding the free clinic with proceeds from his successful hemp seed
>business. “Ibogaine stops the physical addiction without causing
>withdrawal,” he says, “and it deals with the underlying psychological
>issues that lead to drug use.”
>
> Emery estimates that treatment for each patient at the clinic costs
>around $1,500 (£943), which includes two administrations of the drug. “When
>I found out about ibogaine, I felt that someone should be researching this,
>but the drug companies aren’t interested because there is no commercial
>potential in this type of cure.” Neither he nor Polanco is too concerned
>about ambiguous studies on ibogaine’s toxicity. As the Jama article noted,
>”One reviewer wrote that the drug’s toxicology profile was ‘less than
>ideal’, with bradycardia [an abnormally slow heartbeat] leading the list of
>worrisome adverse effects.”
>
> “From the masses of reports I have studied, a total of six people
>have died around the time they took ibogaine,” says Emery. “Some were in
>poor health, some took other drugs at the time of their treatment. That
>doesn’t scare me off. I have a lot of confidence in ibogaine.”
>
> At this stage, with little scientific study, the true toxicology of
>ibogaine is impossible to determine – the treatment is unlicensed in other
>countries and illegal in the US. The decision whether or not to take such a
>risk is entirely personal. Emery notes that his clinic screens for heart
>problems and other medical conditions that might contraindicate the
>treatment. It also gives patients small daily doses of iboga for two weeks
>after their initial treatment. “Iboga tends to make anything bad for you
>taste really crappy. If possible, we want our patients to quit cigarettes
>at the same time. We think that cigarettes can lead people back to other
>addictions.”
>
> Emery notes that nobody has so far criticised the project, and he is
>seeking support from local government. “Iboga tells you to change your ways
>or else – it goes over all of your health and personal issues. It is like
>the ghost of Christmas past.”
>
> Randy Hencken drove us from San Diego to the Ibogaine Association. A
>25-year-old former heroin addict who had kicked the habit after two
>ibogaine treatments at the clinic, he was now working for the association,
>going to local methadone centres with flyers and keeping in contact with
>former patients. The first treatment costs $2,800 (£1,760), including an
>initial medical examination and several days’ convalescence afterwards, but
>subsequent visits are only $600 (£377) – and it seems most addicts need at
>least two doses of ibogaine to avoid relapsing.
>
> The Ibogaine Association is in a quiet, dignified house overlooking
>the Pacific, decorated with Buddhist statues and yarn paintings from
>Mexico’s Huichol people. I was given a medical examination by Polanco and a
>test dose of the drug. Twentyminutes after ingesting the test dose, I
>started to feel nervous and light-headed. As I took the other pills – a
>gel-capped extract of the rootbark powder – I realised I was in for a
>serious trip.
>
> The nurse led me back to my room. My head already spinning, I lay
>back on the bed as she hooked me up to an electrocardiograph and headphones
>playing ambient music.Why was I doing this again? Ibogaine is no pleasure
>trip. It not only causes violent nausea and vomiting, but many of the
>”visions” it induces amount to a painful parading of one’s deepest faults
>and moral failings. I had a loud, unpleasant buzzing in my ears – the Bwiti
>probably pound on drums throughout the ceremony to overwhelm this noise.
>With my eyes closed, I watched as images began to emerge like patterns out
>of TV static. I saw a black man in a 1940s-looking suit. He was holding the
>hand of a five-year-old girl and leading her up some stairs. I understood
>that the girl in the vision was me and that the man represented the spirit
>of iboga. He was going to show me around his castle.
>
> While startling at the time, such an encounter with a seeming
>”spirit of iboga” is a typical vision produced by the Bwiti sacrament. In
>many accounts, people describe meeting a primordial African couple in the
>jungle. Sometimes, the iboga spirit manifests itself as a “ball of light”
>that speaks to the baanzi, saying, “Do you know who I am? I am the chief of
>the world, I am the essential point!” Part of my trip took the form of an
>interview that was almost journalistic. I could ask direct questions of “Mr
>Iboga” and receive answers that were like emphatic, telegraphed shouts
>inside my head – even in my deeply stoned state, I managed to scrawl down
>in my notebook many of the responses.
>
> I askedMr Iboga what iboga was. I was told simply: “Primordial
>wisdom teacher of humanity!”
>
> Later, my personal faults and lazy, decadent habits were replayed
>for me in detail. When I asked what I should do, the answer was stern and
>paternal: “Get it straight now!”
>
> This ideal of straightness, uprightness, kept returning during the
>trip – a meaningful image for me, as I suffer from scoliosis, a curvature
>of the spine. When I was shown other faults that seemed rather petty and
>insignificant, I tried to protest that some of these things really didn’t
>matter. Iboga would have none of it, insisting: “Everything matters!”
>
> Iboga told me that I had no idea of the potential significance of
>even the smallest actions. I reviewed some events in my life and my
>friends’ lives that seemed bitterly unfair. Yet, in this altered state, I
>felt I could sense a karmic pattern behind all of them, perhaps extending
>back to previous incarnations. Iboga affirmed this, dictating: “God is
>just!”
>
> To many readers, these insights may sound trivial. They did not feel
>that way at the time. They were delivered with great force and minimalist
>precision. While they might have been manifestations of my own mind, they
>seemed like the voice of an “other”. Generally, I never think in such
>direct terms about “God”, and “primordial wisdom teacher” is not my syntax.
>
> During the night, I had numerous visions and ponderous metaphysical
>insights. At one point, I seemed to fly through the solar system and into
>the sun, where winged beings were spinning around the core at a tremendous
>rate. Up close, they looked like the gold-tinged angels in early
>Renaissance paintings. Perhaps due to my recent reading of the Austrian
>visionary Rudolf Steiner, this whole trip had a kind of eco-Christian
>flavour to it. At one point, I thought of humans as an expression of the
>Gaian Mind, the earth’s sensory organs and self-reflective capacities, at
>the planet’s present state of development. If we are changing quickly right
>now, I considered, it is only because the earth has entered an accelerated
>phase of transformation, forcing a fast evolution in human consciousness.
>
> The loud buzzing sound that ibogaine produced seemed to be something
>like a dial tone, as if the alkaloid were in itself a device for
>communicating on a different frequency than the usual one. Thinking of my
>girlfriend and our child, I realised that I was lucky – “You are lucky!” Mr
>Iboga echoed. I felt tremendous, tearful gratitude that I had been given a
>chance to live and love, to explore and try to understand so many things.
>
> As so often these days, I pondered on the terrible state of the
>world – wars and terrors and environmental ruin. I saw sheets of
>radioactive flame devouring cities, huge crowds reduced to cinders. I asked
>Mr Iboga if this was going to be the tragic fate of humanity. The answer I
>received was startling – and reassuring: “Everything is safe in God’s
>hands!”
>
> As ludicrous as it may sound, this message has stayed with me and
>alleviated much paranoia and anxiety. While tripping, I decided that Mr
>Iboga was a form of enlightened mind, like a buddha who had chosen a
>different form, as a plant spirit rather than human teacher, to work with
>humanity, imparting a cosmic message of “tough love”. At one point I asked
>if he would consider incarnating as a person, and the answer I got was,
>basically, “Already did that!” – implying that, in some previous cycle, he
>had passed through the perilous stages of evolution we are now navigating.
>I also came away from this trip with the suspicion that iboga was the
>original inspiration for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the
>Biblical tale. The plant’s placement in equatorial Africa, cradle of
>humanity, would support this idea, as well as its sobering moral rectitude.
>The “good and evil” that iboga reveals is not abstract but deeply personal,
>and rooted in the character of the individual.
>
> Late in the night, I retched and vomited out bitter rootbark
>residue. I put on a CD of African drumming. Closing my eyes, I watched a
>group of smiling Bwiti women dance around a jungle bonfire. After that, the
>visions died down, although it was impossible to sleep until late the next
>night.
>
> My friend in recovery had a less visionary experience. His faults
>were also paraded in front of him in repetitive loops that seemed endless.
>At one point, I heard him scream out, “No! No! No!” He saw a possible
>future for himself if he didn’t kick heroin – becoming a dishwasher,
>sinking into dissolute old age with a bad back and a paunch. He asked what
>he could do to help save the world. He was told: “Clean up your room!”
>Meditating on his experience later, my friend quipped, “Ibogaine is God’s
>way of saying, ‘You’re mine!’ ”
>
> · Daniel Pinchbeck’s book about his experiences, Breaking Open The
>Head: A Visionary Journey From Cynicism To Shamanism, is published by
>Flamingo at £12
>
>

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?
Date: September 22, 2003 at 5:41:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was asked to post the following email to the list.

Howard

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?

Has anyone here (or anyone you know) tried ayahuasca
within a month after doing iboga/ibogaine?  Since
nor-ibogaine sets up shop in your body for quite a
while, could this cause problems if you subsequently
take ayahuasca, or could it make you more sensitive to
it?

I have tried ayahuasca within a week of 10 mg/kg and 12.5 mg/kg
of ibogaine. No adverse reactions were noted, and I didn’t notice
any difference in the strength of the ayahuasca experience.

I have also tried very small doses of ibogaine immediately before
and after ayahuasca (on the order of .2 mg/kg, for stamina in the
journey or on the late night drive home), likewise without adverse
effect.  I would not venture to mix the two at significant dosage,
and no longer take ibo before ayahuasca. I didn’t notice any
difference in the strength of the ayahuasca experience.

Ayahuasca seems to give a softer look at what the ibogaine has
revealed. Generally I wouldn’t recommend taking it so soon after
ibogaine – I did it because I didn’t want to miss those
ayahuasca sessions (and would do it again).

A related question: I’ve heard both ayahuasca and
ibogaine are used to deal with addiction issues, and
also for personal growth and spiritual purposes.  If
anyone has experience with both, how would you compare
and contrast them?

I think both can show the same things. Ibogaine seems more
targeted and comprehensive, with possibly years spent with
the lessons of a single experience, while ayahuasca seems
like more of an ongoing method, giving a little bit of
insight at a time.

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?
Date: September 22, 2003 at 5:22:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I also know of several people whom have taken mushrooms or ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine.  None of them reported any ill effects.  This is not advice or science, just sharing.

R

From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:19:16 +0200

Few people who been here had iboga then ayahuasca, Iboga then
mushrooms,iboga then syrian rue,
Iboga can leave you with a feeling of emptiness , detachment,
Ayahuasca, mushroomand syrian rue will give you a warm feeling inside,as
if “in love with the universum “, but that is just a feeling to practice
that feeling
Isn’t the same, that insight doesn’t last if the person doesn’t cling to
it.
The iboga can make you feel drain and the others can make you feel
energetic,
Mostly I would wait few days after the iboga journey before taking any
other plant teacher,

Sara
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: maandag 22 september 2003 21:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?

What a great bunch of interesting questions.
I’m looking forward to the replies to these, so please answer them
on-list, sharing with us all. Thanks kindly. Peace, Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “ad astra” <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?

> Has anyone here (or anyone you know) tried ayahuasca
> within a month after doing iboga/ibogaine?  Since nor-ibogaine sets up

> shop in your body for quite a while, could this cause problems if you
> subsequently take ayahuasca, or could it make you more sensitive to
> it?
>
> Has anyone tried any other psychedelic within a short
> time after using ibogaine, and if so did it affect you differently
> than when you used it pre-ibogaine?
>
> In October I’m planning to do about half a gram of
> ibogaine to clean out my system and kick caffeine
> (again) before I go to Peru in November on an
> ayahuasca retreat.
>
> Originally I was going to do a full dose (1 gram or
> more) of ibogaine, then next year sometime go on an
> ayahuasca retreat.  It seems to make more sense to me
> to take ibogaine to deal with personal issues, then go
> into the more alien/transpersonal ayahuasca realms.
> However, two of my friends are going in November so
> now I’m planning to do the ayahuasca first, then
> perhaps next spring trying a full dose of ibogaine.
>
> A related question: I’ve heard both ayahuasca and
> ibogaine are used to deal with addiction issues, and
> also for personal growth and spiritual purposes.  If
> anyone has experience with both, how would you compare
> and contrast them?
>
> a.
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?
Date: September 22, 2003 at 4:19:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Few people who been here had iboga then ayahuasca, Iboga then
mushrooms,iboga then syrian rue,
Iboga can leave you with a feeling of emptiness , detachment,
Ayahuasca, mushroomand syrian rue will give you a warm feeling inside,as
if “in love with the universum “, but that is just a feeling to practice
that feeling
Isn’t the same, that insight doesn’t last if the person doesn’t cling to
it.
The iboga can make you feel drain and the others can make you feel
energetic,
Mostly I would wait few days after the iboga journey before taking any
other plant teacher,

Sara
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: maandag 22 september 2003 21:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?

What a great bunch of interesting questions.
I’m looking forward to the replies to these, so please answer them
on-list, sharing with us all. Thanks kindly. Peace, Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “ad astra” <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?

Has anyone here (or anyone you know) tried ayahuasca
within a month after doing iboga/ibogaine?  Since nor-ibogaine sets up

shop in your body for quite a while, could this cause problems if you
subsequently take ayahuasca, or could it make you more sensitive to
it?

Has anyone tried any other psychedelic within a short
time after using ibogaine, and if so did it affect you differently
than when you used it pre-ibogaine?

In October I’m planning to do about half a gram of
ibogaine to clean out my system and kick caffeine
(again) before I go to Peru in November on an
ayahuasca retreat.

Originally I was going to do a full dose (1 gram or
more) of ibogaine, then next year sometime go on an
ayahuasca retreat.  It seems to make more sense to me
to take ibogaine to deal with personal issues, then go
into the more alien/transpersonal ayahuasca realms.
However, two of my friends are going in November so
now I’m planning to do the ayahuasca first, then
perhaps next spring trying a full dose of ibogaine.

A related question: I’ve heard both ayahuasca and
ibogaine are used to deal with addiction issues, and
also for personal growth and spiritual purposes.  If
anyone has experience with both, how would you compare
and contrast them?

a.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?
Date: September 22, 2003 at 3:23:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What a great bunch of interesting questions.
I’m looking forward to the replies to these, so please answer them on-list,
sharing with us all.
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “ad astra” <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?

Has anyone here (or anyone you know) tried ayahuasca
within a month after doing iboga/ibogaine?  Since
nor-ibogaine sets up shop in your body for quite a
while, could this cause problems if you subsequently
take ayahuasca, or could it make you more sensitive to
it?

Has anyone tried any other psychedelic within a short
time after using ibogaine, and if so did it affect you
differently than when you used it pre-ibogaine?

In October I’m planning to do about half a gram of
ibogaine to clean out my system and kick caffeine
(again) before I go to Peru in November on an
ayahuasca retreat.

Originally I was going to do a full dose (1 gram or
more) of ibogaine, then next year sometime go on an
ayahuasca retreat.  It seems to make more sense to me
to take ibogaine to deal with personal issues, then go
into the more alien/transpersonal ayahuasca realms.
However, two of my friends are going in November so
now I’m planning to do the ayahuasca first, then
perhaps next spring trying a full dose of ibogaine.

A related question: I’ve heard both ayahuasca and
ibogaine are used to deal with addiction issues, and
also for personal growth and spiritual purposes.  If
anyone has experience with both, how would you compare
and contrast them?

a.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] is ayahuasca shortly after ibogaine OK?
Date: September 22, 2003 at 3:07:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has anyone here (or anyone you know) tried ayahuasca
within a month after doing iboga/ibogaine?  Since
nor-ibogaine sets up shop in your body for quite a
while, could this cause problems if you subsequently
take ayahuasca, or could it make you more sensitive to
it?

Has anyone tried any other psychedelic within a short
time after using ibogaine, and if so did it affect you
differently than when you used it pre-ibogaine?

In October I’m planning to do about half a gram of
ibogaine to clean out my system and kick caffeine
(again) before I go to Peru in November on an
ayahuasca retreat.

Originally I was going to do a full dose (1 gram or
more) of ibogaine, then next year sometime go on an
ayahuasca retreat.  It seems to make more sense to me
to take ibogaine to deal with personal issues, then go
into the more alien/transpersonal ayahuasca realms.
However, two of my friends are going in November so
now I’m planning to do the ayahuasca first, then
perhaps next spring trying a full dose of ibogaine.

A related question: I’ve heard both ayahuasca and
ibogaine are used to deal with addiction issues, and
also for personal growth and spiritual purposes.  If
anyone has experience with both, how would you compare
and contrast them?

a.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National Newspaper “The Guardian”
Date: September 22, 2003 at 1:30:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:55:08 +0000
From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National
Newspaper “The Guardian”
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Folks

Dont know if anyone has posted this up yet. The article
below by Daniel
Pinchbeck appeared in last weekend’s Guardian. It was a
pretty long article
& the New Scientist article aside a few months back (and of
course Nick’s
efforts over the years) , it represents a significant
exposure of the iboga
meme over here in the UK.

Paul.

I think the same article appeared in the LA Weekly a couple
of weeks back

http://laweekly.com/ink/03/40/features-pinchbeck.php

The bit about “sheets of radioactive rain devouring cities”
rang a few bells for me from my own iboga experience in West
Africa.

Nick

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Article on ibogaine in UK National Newspaper “The Guardian”
Date: September 22, 2003 at 7:55:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Folks

Dont know if anyone has posted this up yet. The article below by Daniel Pinchbeck appeared in last weekend’s Guardian. It was a pretty long article & the New Scientist article aside a few months back (and of course Nick’s efforts over the years) , it represents a significant exposure of the iboga meme over here in the UK.

Paul.

Ten years of therapy in one night

Could a single trip on a piece of African rootbark help a junkie kick the habit? That was the claim in the 1960s, and now iboga is back in the spotlight. But is it a miracle cure? Daniel Pinchbeck decided to give it a go. And life, he says, will never be the same again…

Saturday September 20, 2003
The Guardian

In 1962, Howard Lotsof, a 19-year-old heroin addict in New York, ordered from a chemist iboga, a plant used in West African rituals, and tried it for extra kicks. After consuming the bitter rootbark powder, he experienced a visionary tour of his early memories. Thirty hours later, when the effects had subsided, he found that he had lost all craving for heroin, without withdrawal symptoms of any kind. He said he then gave iboga to seven other addicts and five stopped taking drugs immediately afterwards.
In 1985, Lotsof patented the ibogaine molecule for the purposes of addiction treatment, but could not get his treatment approved. In the interim years, ibogaine had been declared, along with LSD and several other psychedelic molecules, an illegal “schedule one” substance, with potential for abuse and no medical value. Although it found dedicated support among a ragtag group of countercultural activists and left-over Yippies, in 1995 the National Institutes of Health discontinued research into the substance, and pharmaceutical companies have since ignored it, perhaps due to low profit potential.

But now, interest in ibogaine is growing rapidly, passing a “tipping point” through a combination of anecdotal evidence, underground activism, journalism and scientific research. Articles have appeared in US publications ranging from the authoritative Journal Of The American Medical Association (Jama) to the populist Star. The Jama piece, Addiction Treatment Strives For Legitimacy, described the drug’s stalled and tortured path through the regulatory agencies, noting that the treatment’s frustrated supporters in the US have set up an “underground railroad” to give addicts access to the drug: “While unknowable scores of addicts continue ingesting ibogaine hydrochloride purified powder – or iboga whole-plant extract containing a dozen or more active alkaloids – few trained researchers witness the events.”

The Star took a more colourful approach: “Rare Root Has Celebs Buzzing” it said, trumpeting the treatment as the hot ticket for “the numerous celebs who look for relief from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniel’s, a needle or prescription medicine”. The article insinuates that “some of our favourite A-listers” not only get cured but enjoy the hallucinations as an illicit “fringe benefit”. Outside the US, new clinics have opened in Mexico, Canada and Europe, offering reasonably priced, medically supervised opportunities to try ibogaine as a method of overcoming addiction. In fact, at one new clinic in Vancouver, the treatment is free.

Iboga is the sacred essence of the religion of the Bwiti tribe of Gabon and Cameroon. Most members of the tribe ingest it just once in their lives, during an initiation ceremony in which massive amounts of the powdered bark are consumed. Through this ritual, they become a baanzi, one who has seen the other world. “Iboga brings about the visual, tactile and auditory certainty of the irrefutable existence of the beyond,” wrote the French chemist Robert Goutarel, who studied the Bwiti. The iboga bark’s visionary power is produced by a complicated cocktail of alkaloids that seems to affect many of the known neurotransmitters, including serotonin and dopamine. Its complex molecular key may lock into the addiction receptors in a way that resets patterns and blocks the feedback loops that reinforce dependency.

In an essay on ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties, Dr Carl Anderson of McLean Hospital, Virginia, speculated that addiction is related to a disrupted relationship between the brain’s two hemispheres, and that ibogaine may cause “bihemispheric reintegration”. Ibogaine also accesses REM sleep in a powerful way – many people need considerably less sleep for several months after an ibogaine trip.

Six years ago, I became a member of the Bwiti. I had heard about ibogaine from an assistant in an anarchist bookstore in New York. On a magazine assignment, I went to Gabon and took iboga in an initiation ceremony. It was one of the most difficult, yet rewarding, experiences of my life. I had heard the substance described as “10 years of psychoanalysis in a single night” but, of course, I did not believe it. As the tribesmen played drums and sang around me until dawn, I lay on a concrete floor and journeyed back through the course of my life up to that point, witnessing forgotten scenes from childhood. At one point, I had a vision of a wooden statue walking across the room and sitting in front of me – later, I was told this was “the spirit of iboga” coming out to communicate with me.

My Bwiti initiation was complicated by a belligerent, greedy shaman who called himself The King and demanded more money from us before, during and after the ceremony. The King was also dissatisfied with the visions I described, and threatened to keep feeding me more iboga until I reported more impressive sights. The initiation, which lasted more than 20 hours, was ultimately liberating. At one point, I was shown my habitual overuse of alcohol and the effect it was having on my relationships, my writing and my psyche. When I returned to the US, I steadily reduced my drinking to a fraction of its previous level – an adjustment that seems to be permanent.

Recently, I tried ibogaine for a second time. I took it at the Ibogaine Association, a clinic in Rosarito, Mexico. I had been contacted by a heroin addict who had been inspired to take ibogaine after reading the book I wrote about my experiences: three months after his first treatment in Mexico, he was still clean – after a 12-year dependency. He told me, “Your book saved my life.” He had given Dr Martin Polanco, the clinic’s founder, a copy of my book, and he had offered me a free treatment. I was curious to see how the experience would differ away from its tribal context. My new friend wanted to take it again to reinforce the effect. We went down together.

Polanco estimates that his clinic has treated nearly 200 addicts in its first 18 months. About one third of those patients have managed to stay clean – either permanently or for a considerable period; many have returned for a second treatment. “Ibogaine needs to be much more widely available,” Polanco says. “We still have a lot to learn about how to administer it, how to work with it.” He does not think iboga is a cure for addiction, but is convinced it is a powerful tool for treatment – and, in some cases, it is a cure. He plans to set up several non-profit clinics. “This is something that should be non-profit,” he says. “After all, it is a plant. It came up from the earth. It does give you some guidance. It shows you how you really are.” He chuckles. “That can be scary.”

The Ibogaine Therapy House in Vancouver, British Columbia, opened last November. “So far, we have treated 14 people quite well,” says Marc Emery, the clinic’s founder and head of the BC Marijuana Party. “They all say that their life has improved.” Emery, nicknamed the “Prince of Pot”, is funding the free clinic with proceeds from his successful hemp seed business. “Ibogaine stops the physical addiction without causing withdrawal,” he says, “and it deals with the underlying psychological issues that lead to drug use.”

Emery estimates that treatment for each patient at the clinic costs around $1,500 (ฃ943), which includes two administrations of the drug. “When I found out about ibogaine, I felt that someone should be researching this, but the drug companies aren’t interested because there is no commercial potential in this type of cure.” Neither he nor Polanco is too concerned about ambiguous studies on ibogaine’s toxicity. As the Jama article noted, “One reviewer wrote that the drug’s toxicology profile was ‘less than ideal’, with bradycardia [an abnormally slow heartbeat] leading the list of worrisome adverse effects.”

“From the masses of reports I have studied, a total of six people have died around the time they took ibogaine,” says Emery. “Some were in poor health, some took other drugs at the time of their treatment. That doesn’t scare me off. I have a lot of confidence in ibogaine.”

At this stage, with little scientific study, the true toxicology of ibogaine is impossible to determine – the treatment is unlicensed in other countries and illegal in the US. The decision whether or not to take such a risk is entirely personal. Emery notes that his clinic screens for heart problems and other medical conditions that might contraindicate the treatment. It also gives patients small daily doses of iboga for two weeks after their initial treatment. “Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy. If possible, we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time. We think that cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

Emery notes that nobody has so far criticised the project, and he is seeking support from local government. “Iboga tells you to change your ways or else – it goes over all of your health and personal issues. It is like the ghost of Christmas past.”

Randy Hencken drove us from San Diego to the Ibogaine Association. A 25-year-old former heroin addict who had kicked the habit after two ibogaine treatments at the clinic, he was now working for the association, going to local methadone centres with flyers and keeping in contact with former patients. The first treatment costs $2,800 (ฃ1,760), including an initial medical examination and several days’ convalescence afterwards, but subsequent visits are only $600 (ฃ377) – and it seems most addicts need at least two doses of ibogaine to avoid relapsing.

The Ibogaine Association is in a quiet, dignified house overlooking the Pacific, decorated with Buddhist statues and yarn paintings from Mexico’s Huichol people. I was given a medical examination by Polanco and a test dose of the drug. Twentyminutes after ingesting the test dose, I started to feel nervous and light-headed. As I took the other pills – a gel-capped extract of the rootbark powder – I realised I was in for a serious trip.

The nurse led me back to my room. My head already spinning, I lay back on the bed as she hooked me up to an electrocardiograph and headphones playing ambient music.Why was I doing this again? Ibogaine is no pleasure trip. It not only causes violent nausea and vomiting, but many of the “visions” it induces amount to a painful parading of one’s deepest faults and moral failings. I had a loud, unpleasant buzzing in my ears – the Bwiti probably pound on drums throughout the ceremony to overwhelm this noise. With my eyes closed, I watched as images began to emerge like patterns out of TV static. I saw a black man in a 1940s-looking suit. He was holding the hand of a five-year-old girl and leading her up some stairs. I understood that the girl in the vision was me and that the man represented the spirit of iboga. He was going to show me around his castle.

While startling at the time, such an encounter with a seeming “spirit of iboga” is a typical vision produced by the Bwiti sacrament. In many accounts, people describe meeting a primordial African couple in the jungle. Sometimes, the iboga spirit manifests itself as a “ball of light” that speaks to the baanzi, saying, “Do you know who I am? I am the chief of the world, I am the essential point!” Part of my trip took the form of an interview that was almost journalistic. I could ask direct questions of “Mr Iboga” and receive answers that were like emphatic, telegraphed shouts inside my head – even in my deeply stoned state, I managed to scrawl down in my notebook many of the responses.

I askedMr Iboga what iboga was. I was told simply: “Primordial wisdom teacher of humanity!”

Later, my personal faults and lazy, decadent habits were replayed for me in detail. When I asked what I should do, the answer was stern and paternal: “Get it straight now!”

This ideal of straightness, uprightness, kept returning during the trip – a meaningful image for me, as I suffer from scoliosis, a curvature of the spine. When I was shown other faults that seemed rather petty and insignificant, I tried to protest that some of these things really didn’t matter. Iboga would have none of it, insisting: “Everything matters!”

Iboga told me that I had no idea of the potential significance of even the smallest actions. I reviewed some events in my life and my friends’ lives that seemed bitterly unfair. Yet, in this altered state, I felt I could sense a karmic pattern behind all of them, perhaps extending back to previous incarnations. Iboga affirmed this, dictating: “God is just!”

To many readers, these insights may sound trivial. They did not feel that way at the time. They were delivered with great force and minimalist precision. While they might have been manifestations of my own mind, they seemed like the voice of an “other”. Generally, I never think in such direct terms about “God”, and “primordial wisdom teacher” is not my syntax.

During the night, I had numerous visions and ponderous metaphysical insights. At one point, I seemed to fly through the solar system and into the sun, where winged beings were spinning around the core at a tremendous rate. Up close, they looked like the gold-tinged angels in early Renaissance paintings. Perhaps due to my recent reading of the Austrian visionary Rudolf Steiner, this whole trip had a kind of eco-Christian flavour to it. At one point, I thought of humans as an expression of the Gaian Mind, the earth’s sensory organs and self-reflective capacities, at the planet’s present state of development. If we are changing quickly right now, I considered, it is only because the earth has entered an accelerated phase of transformation, forcing a fast evolution in human consciousness.

The loud buzzing sound that ibogaine produced seemed to be something like a dial tone, as if the alkaloid were in itself a device for communicating on a different frequency than the usual one. Thinking of my girlfriend and our child, I realised that I was lucky – “You are lucky!” Mr Iboga echoed. I felt tremendous, tearful gratitude that I had been given a chance to live and love, to explore and try to understand so many things.

As so often these days, I pondered on the terrible state of the world – wars and terrors and environmental ruin. I saw sheets of radioactive flame devouring cities, huge crowds reduced to cinders. I asked Mr Iboga if this was going to be the tragic fate of humanity. The answer I received was startling – and reassuring: “Everything is safe in God’s hands!”

As ludicrous as it may sound, this message has stayed with me and alleviated much paranoia and anxiety. While tripping, I decided that Mr Iboga was a form of enlightened mind, like a buddha who had chosen a different form, as a plant spirit rather than human teacher, to work with humanity, imparting a cosmic message of “tough love”. At one point I asked if he would consider incarnating as a person, and the answer I got was, basically, “Already did that!” – implying that, in some previous cycle, he had passed through the perilous stages of evolution we are now navigating. I also came away from this trip with the suspicion that iboga was the original inspiration for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Biblical tale. The plant’s placement in equatorial Africa, cradle of humanity, would support this idea, as well as its sobering moral rectitude. The “good and evil” that iboga reveals is not abstract but deeply personal, and rooted in the character of the individual.

Late in the night, I retched and vomited out bitter rootbark residue. I put on a CD of African drumming. Closing my eyes, I watched a group of smiling Bwiti women dance around a jungle bonfire. After that, the visions died down, although it was impossible to sleep until late the next night.

My friend in recovery had a less visionary experience. His faults were also paraded in front of him in repetitive loops that seemed endless. At one point, I heard him scream out, “No! No! No!” He saw a possible future for himself if he didn’t kick heroin – becoming a dishwasher, sinking into dissolute old age with a bad back and a paunch. He asked what he could do to help save the world. He was told: “Clean up your room!” Meditating on his experience later, my friend quipped, “Ibogaine is God’s way of saying, ‘You’re mine!’ ”

ท Daniel Pinchbeck’s book about his experiences, Breaking Open The Head: A Visionary Journey From Cynicism To Shamanism, is published by Flamingo at ฃ12

_________________________________________________________________
Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] FW: this is a joke, right?
Date: September 21, 2003 at 9:01:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jules Siegel” <siegel@CAFECANCUN.COM>
To: <NEWSROOM-L@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 2:20 PM
Subject: [NEWSROOM-L] FW: this is a joke, right?

———-
From: Charles Dyer <charlesd@newsguy.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:50:55 -0500
To: Platform Wars <platform-wars@sparky.listmoms.net>
Subject: this is a joke, right?

<http://web14.compaq.com/falco/detail.asp?FAQnum=FAQ2859>

I hope it’s a joke. If it’s not, well, my users have just lost their
cherished status as the dumbest of the dumb.

NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc.
http://www.lsoft.com

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] Freshman’s nuclear fusion reactor has USU physics f…
Date: September 21, 2003 at 3:02:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am new to this list. Vector, do you have something to do with this fusion reactor?
It is a little too complex for me to understand but sounds interesting! lol!
I hope I have not made a fool out of myself!
Callie

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] Freshman’s nuclear fusion reactor has USU physics faculty in awe
Date: September 21, 2003 at 12:38:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

🙂

.:vector:.

— Vigilius Haufniensis <thehatefulnerd@centurytel.net> wrote:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510054502,00.html

Fun with fusion: Freshman’s nuclear fusion reactor has USU physics
faculty in awe
By Alan Edwards
Deseret Morning News

LOGAN – A widespread belief among physicists nowadays is that
modern science requires squadrons of scientists and wildly expensive
equipment.
Craig Wallace and Philo T. Farnsworth are putting the lie to
all that.
Wallace, a baby-faced tennis player fresh out of Spanish Fork
High School, had almost the entire physics faculty of Utah State
University hovering (and arguing) over an apparatus he had cobbled
together from parts salvaged from junk yards and charity drops.
The apparatus is nothing less than the sine qua non of modern
science: a nuclear fusion reactor, based on the plans of Utah’s own
Philo Farnsworth, the inventor of television.
The reactor sat on a table with an attached vacuum pump
wheezing away. A television monitor showed what was inside: a glowing
ball of gas surrounded by a metal helix.
The ball is, literally, a small sun, where an electric field
forces deuteron ions (a form of hydrogen) to gather, bang together
and occasionally fuse, spitting out a neutron each time fusion
occurs.
“Here I am with this thing here,” Wallace mused, looking at his
surroundings. “Who’da thought?”
Wallace and Farnsworth are much alike. Both are (or were –
Farnsworth died in 1971) tinkerers. While Wallace was in grade
school, his mother got a flat tire while he was riding with her. He
fixed it. For his part, Farnsworth began improvising electric motors
at a young age. Both went on to bigger and better things.
“He was never motivated to take science,” said Wallace’s
father, Allen Wallace. “It was really the tinkering that motivated
him.”
When Craig was a sophomore in high school, browsing the
Internet he discovered that Farnsworth had come up with a way to
create deuteron ion plasma, a prerequisite to fusion.
While it was not good for production of energy (the source of
much embarrassment to the University of Utah in the cold fusion
debacle in the late 1980s), Farnsworth’s design did emit neutrons, a
useful tool for commercial applications and scientific
experimentation.
“He (Farnsworth) was after the Holy Grail of excess energy, but
everyone agrees that it’s mostly useful as a neutron generator,”
Allen Wallace said.
About 30 such devices exist around the country, owned by such
entities as Los Alamos National Laboratories, NASA and universities.
(“I bet I’m the only high school student that has one,” Craig Wallace
said.)
Looking at Farnsworth’s plans for the first time, Craig and his
father both had the same thought: Now there’s a science project.
They set to work. They found a neutron detector in an Idaho
Falls scrap metal yard. Craig built a neutron modulator (which slows
down the emitted neutrons so they can be detected) out of a few
hundred spare CDs. They found a broken turbo molecular pump lying
forgotten at Deseret Industries.
Too poor to buy pricey deuterium gas, Craig bought a container
of deuterium oxide, or heavy water, for 20 bucks and came up with a
way to make it a gas and get rid of the accompanying oxygen by
passing it over heated magnesium filings.
Not bad for a backyard amateur who considered himself more
mechanic than scientist.
“I teased him that he was now officially a science geek,” Allen
Wallace said.
One professor Friday stood nervously away from Wallace’s
reactor – which is notably free from any shielding – but he needn’t
have worried: Wallace’s detector measures 36 neutrons per minute just
in background radiation from space, and the device’s usual output
adds only four neutrons per minute. People in airplanes absorb much
more than that.
It took two years of gathering materials and six months of
assembly, but the final product actually, incongruously, works.
“(This was) the day I achieved a Poisser plasma reaction,”
Wallace wrote next to a picture of the glowing ball. “Probably the
coolest thing I have ever seen.”
Others thought it was cool, too. Wallace began winning contests
– local, state, national – culminating in second place in the
International Intel Science and Engineering Fair last May in
Cleveland. He’s now beginning work on a USU physics degree.
“The whole thing combines chemistry, engineering, physics,” he
said. “Put them all together and you come out with something pretty
sweet.”
Farnsworth would have been proud.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “Tova Rice” <trice@barak-online.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] unsubscibe
Date: September 20, 2003 at 7:47:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

unsubscribe

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Coca eradication working in Colombia?
Date: September 19, 2003 at 2:07:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, can anyone offer any figures regarding all the other crops that have been lost due to the
use of glycophosphate in Columbia? Or perhaps the increase in tumors, infections and
deaths due to respiratory problems, cancer, contaminated waterways, starvation etc….?

……….!

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:46:28 -0400
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Coca eradication working in Colombia?


U.N. Says U.S. Eradication of Coca in Colombia Is Working
By JUAN FORERO

OGOTÁ, Colombia, Sept. 17 – The United Nations said today that
American-financed aerial eradication of Colombia’s vast coca fields is
starting to pay big dividends and released estimates that show the size of
the crop dropping by 32 percent in the first seven months of the year.
Advertisement

Production of coca – the main ingredient in cocaine – is increasing slightly
in Peru and Bolivia. But the sizable reduction in Colombia’s crop means that
for the first time overall coca production in the Andes is dropping at a
rapid pace.
The new estimates from the United Nations Drug Control Program show that
coca fields in Colombia fell to 170,430 acres on July 31 from 251,940 acres
last December. At this rate, the United Nations said, Colombia’s coca crop
will be reduced 50 percent by the end of the year.
“The reduction is heavy, and it seems as if it’s accelerating,” said Klaus
Nyholm, who as chief of the United Nations anti-drug efforts here oversaw
the study. He announced the results this afternoon along with Colombia’s
interior minister, Fernando Londoño.
The American Congress is debating whether to provide another $700 million in
aid to Colombia on top of $2.5 billion that Washington has spent since 2000
to eradicate coca and undercut the financing source for Colombia’s insurgent
groups.
snip-


_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net

Powered by Outblaze

From: “Phil” <phil.laing@igreen.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] INDRA/Gekko
Date: September 18, 2003 at 3:37:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Phil [mailto:phil.laing@igreen.net]
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2003 8:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] INDRA/Gekko

Hi Howard
If you get any feedback for the phone number from Indra could you please
forward it to me?

[Phil said …] Email address would probably help.  As above will do
fine…

Thanks

Phil

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2003 3:07 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] INDRA/Gekko

Anyone on the list have a telephone number for INDRA or Gekko?

Please email it to me, HSLotsof@aol.com

Thanks

Howard

From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] aftercare……
Date: September 18, 2003 at 12:07:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Over the years i began to see a pattern with people coming for addiction interruption sessions.  And so as a result, during the last years, usually during our first phone conversation, i often ask people if physical and/or emotional abandonement from the same sex parent was a pattern, because at least for me in more than 9 out of 10 people it is an issue.  However, if a person is about 45 years old or older i won’t present the issue in the same way because it is more difficult to find the characteristics necessary in a same sex therapist for healing, and older people need to move through layers of their process using different tools.  I always tell a person from the onset that the ibogaine treatment is half of the equation and what you do with your life especially during the immediate months after the session is the other half.  For people in their younger years, a most precious component is to find a same sex therapist they admire and respect, so that by the time the metabolite washes out of the receptors from the ibogaine session they have healed the issues which created the addictive tendency, by exploring the full range of emotions which heals and fills the hole which was attempted to be filled by the substance of choice.
During the last 3 years we have had 15 people mostly women in their 20’s relocate immediately after their ibogaine session, all chronic relapsers with multiple overdosings, in and out of rehab and detox units.  You get the picture.  We haven’t had any opiate relapses.  We have had a couple of crack binges and a couple of continuous alcohol users.  More often there has been, over a couple of year period, a shedding of nicotine and pot as well.  I attribute this to the immediate introduction of a transpersonal therapist located here where we live into their lives.  She has the capacity to cut through personal history in a very short time, and of course to help explore the depths of the abandonment issue.  To be merely confortable with a therapist doesn’t work.  It’s sometimes appropriate, but if this all that is being experienced then therapy is not happening. There needs to be a range of emotions, from anger and intimidation to comfort and trust explored which happens only when there is a genuine repect and admiration felt for the therapist.  And the fact is, or this is the way i see it, which makes it so challenging for addicts to find this person is many fold.  They lack trust and they are more sensitive and intelligent than most of the therapists available.
So after conducting over 450 sessions it is clear that addicts are more sensitive and intelligent.  And so the other component for a lot of people who come to me is that they need more in their lives than to fulfill the American dream of lovely home, nice family and a good job.  They need to spiritualize the mundane, i.e. access causeless joy .  There’s a spiritual approach stripped of belief and trappings which is the essence of all mystery school teachings.  There are a few books and teachers which help cut through identification with the thought stream and emotions, which in combination with ibogaine and therapy creates a most wholistic condition to emerge.  This is where Its at now..This is the understanding so far.
Thanks for listening,
Eric

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Coca eradication working in Colombia?
Date: September 18, 2003 at 7:57:13 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,
Sorry, I’m hoping for some educated feedback please on this one.
Some interpretation of the figures would be nice, and could someone
forward this to Doug McVay, whose email I’ve lost?
Thanks kindly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:46 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Coca eradication working in Colombia?


U.N. Says U.S. Eradication of Coca in Colombia Is Working
By JUAN FORERO

OGOTÁ, Colombia, Sept. 17 – The United Nations said today that
American-financed aerial eradication of Colombia’s vast coca fields is
starting to pay big dividends and released estimates that show the size of
the crop dropping by 32 percent in the first seven months of the year.
Advertisement

Production of coca – the main ingredient in cocaine – is increasing
slightly
in Peru and Bolivia. But the sizable reduction in Colombia’s crop means
that
for the first time overall coca production in the Andes is dropping at a
rapid pace.
The new estimates from the United Nations Drug Control Program show that
coca fields in Colombia fell to 170,430 acres on July 31 from 251,940
acres
last December. At this rate, the United Nations said, Colombia’s coca crop
will be reduced 50 percent by the end of the year.
“The reduction is heavy, and it seems as if it’s accelerating,” said Klaus
Nyholm, who as chief of the United Nations anti-drug efforts here oversaw
the study. He announced the results this afternoon along with Colombia’s
interior minister, Fernando Londoño.
The American Congress is debating whether to provide another $700 million
in
aid to Colombia on top of $2.5 billion that Washington has spent since
2000
to eradicate coca and undercut the financing source for Colombia’s
insurgent
groups.
snip-

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
ugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Coca eradication working in Colombia?
Date: September 18, 2003 at 7:46:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


U.N. Says U.S. Eradication of Coca in Colombia Is Working
By JUAN FORERO

OGOTÁ, Colombia, Sept. 17 – The United Nations said today that
American-financed aerial eradication of Colombia’s vast coca fields is
starting to pay big dividends and released estimates that show the size of
the crop dropping by 32 percent in the first seven months of the year.
Advertisement

Production of coca – the main ingredient in cocaine – is increasing slightly
in Peru and Bolivia. But the sizable reduction in Colombia’s crop means that
for the first time overall coca production in the Andes is dropping at a
rapid pace.
The new estimates from the United Nations Drug Control Program show that
coca fields in Colombia fell to 170,430 acres on July 31 from 251,940 acres
last December. At this rate, the United Nations said, Colombia’s coca crop
will be reduced 50 percent by the end of the year.
“The reduction is heavy, and it seems as if it’s accelerating,” said Klaus
Nyholm, who as chief of the United Nations anti-drug efforts here oversaw
the study. He announced the results this afternoon along with Colombia’s
interior minister, Fernando Londoño.
The American Congress is debating whether to provide another $700 million in
aid to Colombia on top of $2.5 billion that Washington has spent since 2000
to eradicate coca and undercut the financing source for Colombia’s insurgent
groups.
snip-

From: “Phil” <phil.laing@igreen.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] INDRA/Gekko
Date: September 17, 2003 at 6:52:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard
If you get any feedback for the phone number from Indra could you please
forward it to me?

Thanks

Phil

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2003 3:07 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] INDRA/Gekko

Anyone on the list have a telephone number for INDRA or Gekko?

Please email it to me, HSLotsof@aol.com

Thanks

Howard

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Tell your U.S. senators to support medical marijuana
Date: September 17, 2003 at 2:22:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.mpp.org/USA/action.html

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine
Date: September 17, 2003 at 1:43:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/03 5:11:38 PM, windforme@graffiti.net writes:

I believe this was due to the possible raising of brain
levels of amphetamine by ibogaine that is reported by glick in one of his
papers as per his rats…

Can i find access to this paper somewhere online?

Thanks Howard,

Sandra

As and you shall have, at least the abstract, and the full text may be
avilable for a price through medline <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ or you can obtain
a photocopy at a university medical library.

Howard

Brain Res. 1992 Aug 14;588(1):173-6.

Differential effects of ibogaine pretreatment on brain levels of morphine and
(+)-amphetamine.

Glick SD, Gallagher CA, Hough LB, Rossman KL, Maisonneuve IM.

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Albany Medical College, NY 122208.

Previous studies in rats have shown that ibogaine inhibits neurochemical and
behavioral effects of morphine yet potentiates similar effects of
(+)-amphetamine. To assess whether these different functional interactions have a
metabolic basis, brain levels of morphine and (+)-amphetamine were measured by gas
chromatography-mass spectrometry after ibogaine pretreatment (19 h before
injection of morphine or (+)-amphetamine). Ibogaine pretreatment had no effect on
brain morphine levels, either at 30 min or 2 h after morphine injection; however,
ibogaine significantly increased brain amphetamine levels at 30 min and, to a
greater extent, at 2 h after (+)-amphetamine injection. These and other data
suggest that ibogaine irreversibly inhibits an amphetamine-metabolizing
enzyme. The functional interactions between ibogaine and (+)-amphetamine, but not
those between ibogaine and morphine, may result from a hepatic drug-drug
interaction.

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine
Date: September 17, 2003 at 1:09:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe this was due to the possible raising of brain
levels of amphetamine by ibogaine that is reported by glick in one of his
papers as per his rats…

Can i find access to this paper somewhere online?

Thanks Howard,

Sandra

_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net

Powered by Outblaze

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] INDRA/Gekko
Date: September 17, 2003 at 1:06:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone on the list have a telephone number for INDRA or Gekko?

Please email it to me, HSLotsof@aol.com

Thanks

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine
Date: September 17, 2003 at 1:05:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/17/03 4:37:04 PM, windforme@graffiti.net writes:

That and also Crystal meth. Has anyone used Ibo to treat meth

addiction?

We treated a low dose methadone/high dose methamphetamine user.  The patient
was using 20mg/day of methadone and shooting more than 1 gram a day of
methamphetamine.  Methamphetamine use was discontinued 48 hours prior to
administration according to the patient.  The patient in some ways presented a unique
profile.  I believe this was due to the possible raising of brain levels of
amphetamine by ibogaine that is reported by glick in one of his papers as per his
rats.  The patient responded normally and three or four hours into the
experience suddenly got out of bed and stated she wanted to go to the beach.  Well, we
were indulgent providers and drove to a beach about ten miles away.  She
walked around for about 45 minutes and stated she wanted to return to her bed and
thereafter had a rather normal experience, that is flat on her back.  Two days
later the patient was completely refreshed and amazed she felt as good as she
did with no withdrawal from or desire to use methadone.  However, this is only
one patient so don’t base expected results on this single description.

Howard

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine
Date: September 17, 2003 at 12:34:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We have not yet treated anyone here at ITH for Ketamine though that is a question that i
would also like to explore. That and also Crystal meth. Has anyone used Ibo to treat meth
addiction?

-Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:30:21 +0200 (MET DST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine

Does IBOgaine work for ketamine as well? Does anyone have any experience
with this?

Thanks,

Marko


_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net

Powered by Outblaze

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine
Date: September 17, 2003 at 8:55:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko,

No, this might help though;

http://www.ketamine-effects.com/ketamine-detox.htm

It isn’t something that I have ever heard of any
issues with in detoxing (like seizures).

Brett

— IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Does IBOgaine work for ketamine as well? Does anyone
have any experience
with this?

Thanks,

Marko

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] IBO for ketamine
Date: September 17, 2003 at 5:30:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does IBOgaine work for ketamine as well? Does anyone have any experience
with this?

Thanks,

Marko

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Second Ecstasy Study Retracted
Date: September 16, 2003 at 10:23:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm,
Wonder what else they’ve gotten “wrong” about currently illegal drugs?
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Richard Lake” <rlake@mapinc.org>
To: <ssdptalk@ssdp.org>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Second Ecstasy Study Retracted

Pubdate: Mon, 15 Sep 2003
Source: Los Angeles Times (CA)
Webpage:

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-ecstasy15sep15,1,6080075.story?coll=la-headlines-health
Copyright: 2003 Los Angeles Times
Contact: letters@latimes.com
Website: http://www.latimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/248
Author: Jonathan Bor, Baltimore Sun
Cited: Multidisciplinary Assn. for Psychedelic Studies
http://www.maps.org/
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mdma.htm (Ecstasy)

SECOND ECSTASY STUDY RETRACTED

Johns Hopkins scientists find new error involving vial mislabeled in the
first experiment.

Scientists at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine have retracted a second
study linking the drug Ecstasy to a certain type of brain damage because
once again the wrong drug was given to lab animals. Dr. Una D. McCann, a
neuroscientist involved in both experiments, said a letter of retraction
was
sent Thursday to a medical journal, which she declined to identify until
editors there decide how to handle the matter.

Scientists discovered the mistake after they checked lab records to
see if methamphetamine from a mislabeled vial used in the first
experiment had been used elsewhere.

“As you might imagine, we systematically went through the books to
find out which, if any, of our published studies involved the same
[vial],” she said Thursday. “We did find one, and a letter of
retraction was sent out to the journal today.”

The errors came about when a chemical supply company, Research
Triangle International of North Carolina, switched the labels of two
vials containing methamphetamine and MDMA, the active ingredient in
Ecstasy. The scientists have not found any other studies in which they
mistakenly gave methamphetamine rather than MDMA to research animals.
However, she said researchers are concerned about another possible
repercussion. Because labels on two bottles were switched, it is
possible that MDMA was accidentally given to animals instead of
methamphetamine in another experiment.

If a continued search of lab records turns up a problem of that
nature, scientists might have to issue another retraction, she said.
Last week, the journal Science released a letter of retraction in
which the Hopkins scientists admitted that they had accidentally given
methamphetamine, rather than MDMA, to squirrel monkeys and baboons in
an experiment.

That study seemed to show that MDMA damaged cells that secrete
dopamine, a brain chemical needed for normal movement. Because the
same type of brain damage occurs in people with Parkinson’s disease,
the scientists suggested that Ecstasy users might be putting
themselves at risk for the devastating ailment.

Members of the research team, led by Dr. George Ricaurte, suspected a
problem when they were unable to replicate the results in other
studies. McCann, who along with Ricaurte has studied Ecstasy for about
20 years, declined to provide details about the second study, saying
only that it involved rats and was not designed to test toxicity to
dopamine cells.

The second retraction may stir up a longtime controversy over Hopkins’
Ecstasy research. Critics have charged that the scientists made too
much of their study results, concluding from scant evidence that the
drug places users at risk for long-term brain damage. Rick Doblin,
founder of an organization that favors research into the therapeutic
potential of Ecstasy, said Thursday that the researchers have been
slow to scrutinize their work’s validity.

“This doesn’t help their credibility and goes to the whole question of
what else they know,” said Doblin, founder of the Multidisciplinary
Assn. for Psychedelic Studies.

Another group of Hopkins animal studies, not called into question by
the labeling problem, tied MDMA to the death of nerve cells secreting
serotonin, a brain chemical that regulates mood. Loss of this chemical
has been tied to depression.
__________________________________________________________________________
Distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in
receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.
e i

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
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|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Vancouver opens first safe shooting gallery
Date: September 16, 2003 at 5:54:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Saw this on C(ia)N(ews)N(etwork) last night, the pitch slanted towards the
ridicule side (What are these Canadians thinking?) -“Any US Official would be
in danger of losing their job if they proposed such a plan” was one of the
comments by the CNN anchor.

~dh

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

News snip:

Canada opens first heroin ‘shooting gallery’

September 16 2003 at 01:09AM

Vancouver – The first supervised heroin injection site in North America
officially opened on Monday in the Canadian city of Vancouver.

Organisers of the initiative estimate that as many as 800 addicts a day will go
to the site to shoot up, instead of using back alleys.

Supporters hope the site will reduce the number of overdose deaths, already at
37 this year, and curb Aids and hepatitis infections among drug users.

“It’s going to make a large difference,” said Larry Campbell, the mayor of the
West Coast city.

complete story:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=22&art_id=qw1063667341495B253&set_id=1

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From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] can anyone explain this?
Date: September 15, 2003 at 4:55:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill,

oh yes, that’s it !

I received this link in a new-age newsletter which someone keeps sending
me… and she was amazed and couldn’t understand how is this possible. I
guess that she kept clicking on the ball without checking the pattern on
the chart (btw, I only realised this the second time I clicked on the
ball, when I checked how it works).

BUT, this shows something about new-age people – not all of them, of
course – who take everything they get for granted and don’t look under the
surface… that’s dangerous, isn’t it?

Enjoy,

Marko

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Bill Ross wrote:

2-digit numbers with the ‘sum digits & subtract’ algorithm yield
a pattern of multiples of 9. Every multiple of 9 in the chart has
the same symbol, and that symbol (I predict) is what will appear
in the crystal ball. When you “Click here” to try again, the symbols
change to hide this regular pattern.

10 -> 9
11 -> 9
12 -> 9

19 -> 9
20 -> 18
21 -> 18

29 -> 18
30 -> 27

Bill

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] RE: Australian support for ibogaine treatment
Date: September 14, 2003 at 8:35:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/14/03 11:56:40 PM, phil.laing@igreen.net writes:

Hi All

I am interested in contacting anyone with experience in Australia with
ibogaine treatment.  I am about to self medicate ibogaine for an opiate
addiction legacy from pain management treatment from MVA and spinal
operations. I would like to speak to someone with a little experience in
this area.  I have been able to cut down MS Contin to over half but I am
finding it extremely difficult to cut down the last bit.  My pain levels
seem to be unchanged from a higher dose to the levels I am on now and I
am confident my pain levels will be unremarkable once I have desisted
from all narcotics

I am also interested in finding any drug rehab within Australia that is
pushing or at least interested in ibogaine treatment

Thanks guys

Phil,

Please keep me informed of any finds you make either on or off list.

Thanks

Howard

From: “Phil” <phil.laing@igreen.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] RE: Australian support for ibogaine treatment
Date: September 14, 2003 at 7:56:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All

I am interested in contacting anyone with experience in Australia with
ibogaine treatment.  I am about to self medicate ibogaine for an opiate
addiction legacy from pain management treatment from MVA and spinal
operations. I would like to speak to someone with a little experience in
this area.  I have been able to cut down MS Contin to over half but I am
finding it extremely difficult to cut down the last bit.  My pain levels
seem to be unchanged from a higher dose to the levels I am on now and I
am confident my pain levels will be unremarkable once I have desisted
from all narcotics

I am also interested in finding any drug rehab within Australia that is
pushing or at least interested in ibogaine treatment

Thanks guys

Phil

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 14, 2003 at 3:16:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mash doesn’t think so. All she ever says is how dangerous ibogaine is
unless she sells it to you. Treating a lot of poor people for free?
Where do they come from? There aren’t any poor people who ever detox at
Healing Visions. If ibogaine is so dangerous and that is what Mash is
worried about instead of her money and glory, then why doesn’t she
explain why so nobody else dies?

here here amen

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Special Project
Date: September 14, 2003 at 12:10:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jeff,

Glad to learn you will be presenting at CSAM.  That should certainly make the
presentations more interesting.  On all of the other issues indicated in your
email I am not the guilty party.

I don’t follow the star or the ibogaine’s lists periodic denunciations of one
thing/person or another.  Clinicians are never an insignificant piece of the
ibogaine puzzle.

This list among many others have participants who demonstrate the totality of
human nature and from time to time demonstrate they are “angry people with
good
intentions.”  I am also a member of Addict-L, a list proposed for addiction
treatment professionals but, really somewhat wider in its membership.  Some
years ago the list owner found the list members so abusive to each other and the
messages so disruptive he threw numbers off the list and threatened to close
the list.  But, I believe you would understand that on a list where members may
be in a state of continual jeopardy that outbursts are not unknown.

If you can afford a donation to help get me to any of the Dora Weiner Project
conferences; CSAM, DPA or the Danish Drug Users conference, it is both tax
deductible and appreciated.  http://www.doraweiner.org/donation.html

Regards,

Howard

In a message dated 9/14/03 2:27:48 PM, AQUIS18@aol.com writes:

<< I was asked by CSAM at a late date to provide a clinicians view point on
Ibogaine. ASAM is open to physician membership only. It is my hope that
physicians
will listen to another physician who is a certified addictionologist and open
their minds to the possibility of Ibogaine.

I am not a researcher per se. I am a clinically based physician. I treat
addicts, one at a time. I don’t write papers nor seek to be listed on any. I
certainly do not need to be “thrown a bone.” I am an insignificant piece in
the
Ibogaine puzzle but will do what I can to inform my colleges about what I
have seen.

I am an independent practitioner and provide my services as such. I have no
relationship to Patrick and I am not an employee of Healing Visions.

Just to clarify: I have never given permission to the Star to publish any
information nor provide those statements to them.

The message relating to different forms of Ibogaine and accessibility related
to a family member who has struggled with methadone for 25 years but will not
accept help from his own family despite their offers to do so. He is a proud
and good man and wanted to do this on his own.

Where my observations correct? Are many on the site, angry people with good
intentions? Why strike out at a persons communication skills or make
accusations. At least get the facts or ask.

One true fact was noted.  I have no good answer as to why am I wasting my
time writing to this site in an attempt to clarify certain issues. I guess
I’m
just a slow learner and have to be burnt more then once to learn a lesson. I
will not make this mistake again >>

From: AQUIS18@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 14, 2003 at 10:26:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was asked by CSAM at a late date to provide a clinicians view point on Ibogaine. ASAM is open to physician membership only. It is my hope that physicians will listen to another physician who is a certified addictionologist and open their minds to the possibility of Ibogaine.

I am not a researcher per per se. I am a clinically based physician. I treat addicts, one at a time. I don’t write papers nor seek to be listed on any. I certainly do not need to be “thrown a bone.” I am an insignificant piece in the Ibogaine puzzle but will do what I can to inform my colleges about what I have seen.

I am an independent practitioner and provide my services as such. I have no relationship to Patrick and I am not an employee of Healing Visions.

Just to clarify: I have never given permission to the Star to publish any information nor provide those statements to them.

The message relating to different forms of Ibogaine and accessibility related to a family member who has struggled with methadone for 25 years but will not accept help from his own family despite their offers to do so. He is a proud and good man and wanted to do this on his own.

Where my observations correct? Are many on the site, angry people with good intentions? Why strike out at a persons communication skills or make accusations. At least get the facts or ask.

One true fact was noted.  I have no good answer as to why am I wasting my time writing to this site in an attempt to clarify certain issues. I guess I’m just a slow learner and have to be burnt more then once to learn a lesson. I will not make this mistake again

Over and OUT

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 14, 2003 at 1:01:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m one of the people who posted a reply to your msg. I never called
you a treatment pimp and I’m not even a addict. Never have been. I’ve
been reading this and the other mindvox lists for years. My reply was
to what you wrote using the same account you used to post how you
didn’t talk to the Star and the same account you used to not post your
phone number to the whole list before that.

I don’t know what is or isn’t true. What Jamilah reposted from the
article and what gets said I don’t think Mash is that honest either.
The reason ibogaine hasn’t gone anywhere yet may have a lot to do with
her. It may not. She doesn’t spend her time writing dumbass messages to
this list like you do so its hard to tell.

I don’t say anything bad about Mash because partly I don’t know the
truth and partly for the same reason I don’t say anything to Marc Emery
either. Mash is mentioned then Patrick wakes up, I forget who said it
when they argued a long time ago but it was funny shit, talking to
either one is like talking to teflon. The verbal apocalypse 😉 Mention
Mash and Patrick goes off. Mention Marc and his assistants will show up
and do the same thing 😉

I think Patrick and Marc are both cool as fuck to make my opinion clear
about that.

Mash doesn’t think so. All she ever says is how dangerous ibogaine is
unless she sells it to you. Treating a lot of poor people for free?
Where do they come from? There aren’t any poor people who ever detox at
Healing Visions. If ibogaine is so dangerous and that is what Mash is
worried about instead of her money and glory, then why doesn’t she
explain why so nobody else dies?

There already are people right here giving their time and experience
for free. There are people already offering treatment for free. Marc
Emery. You’re some dumbass who should remind CSAM how important you are
because they forgot to list you in their conference brochure.

You might want to take a class in communication too. I’ve only had 3
weeks in mine and I can already tell you you should buy a book that
would help you a lot.

“How to win friends and influence people” by Dale Carnegie. You could
use it.

.:vector:.

— “jessica_w@ziplip.com” <jessica_w@ziplip.com> wrote:

I don’t know anything about the star. The only thing I saw people
mention is that you posted a message totally full of lies and got
caught.

Whatever else you are that doesn’t say very much for you. It is also
very very weird that you’re asking questions Mash and Patrick could
answer. All your questions were for this huge chart of where all
ibogaine comes from and who is selling it. Maybe Mash doesn’t know
all that but if Patrick isn’t telling you then that is……….

I don’t know, which message are you lying in, this one or the one
before? All you’ve really said is how important you are and listed
yourself in front of Mash and Glick.

-jess

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
[mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003, 7:02 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project

Bro I don’t think anyone cares what you do for a living. The only
messages
that replied to you were people who busted you for writing a
totally
fake message full of lies. From the same account you used to post
about
the Star last year.

Nobody has ever called Mash or Glick treatment pimps, they’re
scientists.
You don’t exist anywhere except last on some paper Mash wrote. That
is
all I’m finding online. In science that’s the ‘throwing someone a
bone’
listing 😉

Nobody has ever replied to you to anything except what you yourself
put
on the list. That’s the Star and the big lie message. What vector
replied
is true enough. If you’re so important then why are you writing
dumb
messages to the ibogaine list asking questions that Mash and
Patrick
can answer? It means neither one of them wants to help you with
whatever
it is that your doing or whoever your trying to get arrested or
shut
down.

Nice love and iboga closing. Done any ever?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:50:35 -0700 AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
Glad to hear you would actually endorse attendance at the CSAM
conference

where “treatment pimps” like myself, Dr. Mash, Dr. Glick and
others
will be
speaking about Ibogaine.

It is our hope and aspiration that Ibogaine will be available as
soon as
possible, to all those in need of its healing efficacy.

It seems that many on this site feel this can be done without the
hard work
of dedicated people who have the credentials to make the powers
that be listen
to the data.

We “treatment pimps” are not the game, but have to play the game,
if Ibogaine
is to ever be made accessible to all who seek it.

Practicing addiction medicine and addiction research costs money
and is also
our avocation. It is,, in part how professionals in the addiction
field,
support themselves and their families.

I don’t know what many on the site do for a living but I wonder
if they give
it away or charge for their work.

All  should go to their employers on Monday A.M. and announce that
their
services are now free.

Let he that is without sin cast the first stone and all of
that…..

I know most are good people or they would not be behind this
endeavor
in the
first place.

Then why are so many, so angry at the world? Addiction, is truly
a fear and
anger based dis/ease.

I feel fortunate, blessed and honored to have chosen a career that
allows to
me to help so many on a daily basis, ( regardless of their ability
to pay).
Unfortunately, I do not own a hospital, treatment center,
pharmaceutical
company
or medical staffing agency. Those things cost money.

I receive calls every day from good people who seek treatment and
have no
medical insurance, money or rich relatives to help.

I’m sure that those who wish to throw stones at “treatment pimps”
would be
glad to donate their pay checks to pay for their detox. If so I
will gladly
provide my services at any time pro bono.

Talk is so cheap.

Howard, you have earned the respect of so many and rightly deserve
it. I am
sure that many others on this site have also done much at their
own expense to
help others. Yet some are just full of shit and feel they
contribute
something
by bashing others whom they have never met and  know nothing
about.
That is a
sin. plain and simple.

To them, I state, another dose of mother Iboga, perhaps? This time
the
message that love cures not hate, will get through.. we all need
to work together.
There are so many we have to convince that we can’t afford to
fraction
off
others who work towards the same goal.

G-d bless you all (even those who believe in 12 step programs).

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

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From: “jessica_w@ziplip.com” <jessica_w@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 10:07:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know anything about the star. The only thing I saw people mention is that you posted a message totally full of lies and got caught.

Whatever else you are that doesn’t say very much for you. It is also very very weird that you’re asking questions Mash and Patrick could answer. All your questions were for this huge chart of where all ibogaine comes from and who is selling it. Maybe Mash doesn’t know all that but if Patrick isn’t telling you then that is……….

I don’t know, which message are you lying in, this one or the one before? All you’ve really said is how important you are and listed yourself in front of Mash and Glick.

-jess

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003, 7:02 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project

Bro I don’t think anyone cares what you do for a living. The only messages
that replied to you were people who busted you for writing a totally
fake message full of lies. From the same account you used to post about
the Star last year.

Nobody has ever called Mash or Glick treatment pimps, they’re scientists.
You don’t exist anywhere except last on some paper Mash wrote. That is
all I’m finding online. In science that’s the ‘throwing someone a bone’
listing 😉

Nobody has ever replied to you to anything except what you yourself put
on the list. That’s the Star and the big lie message. What vector replied
is true enough. If you’re so important then why are you writing dumb
messages to the ibogaine list asking questions that Mash and Patrick
can answer? It means neither one of them wants to help you with whatever
it is that your doing or whoever your trying to get arrested or shut
down.

Nice love and iboga closing. Done any ever?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:50:35 -0700 AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
Glad to hear you would actually endorse attendance at the CSAM conference

where “treatment pimps” like myself, Dr. Mash, Dr. Glick and others
will be
speaking about Ibogaine.

It is our hope and aspiration that Ibogaine will be available as
soon as
possible, to all those in need of its healing efficacy.

It seems that many on this site feel this can be done without the
hard work
of dedicated people who have the credentials to make the powers
that be listen
to the data.

We “treatment pimps” are not the game, but have to play the game,
if Ibogaine
is to ever be made accessible to all who seek it.

Practicing addiction medicine and addiction research costs money
and is also
our avocation. It is,, in part how professionals in the addiction
field,
support themselves and their families.

I don’t know what many on the site do for a living but I wonder
if they give
it away or charge for their work.

All  should go to their employers on Monday A.M. and announce that
their
services are now free.

Let he that is without sin cast the first stone and all of that…..

I know most are good people or they would not be behind this endeavor
in the
first place.

Then why are so many, so angry at the world? Addiction, is truly
a fear and
anger based dis/ease.

I feel fortunate, blessed and honored to have chosen a career that
allows to
me to help so many on a daily basis, ( regardless of their ability
to pay).
Unfortunately, I do not own a hospital, treatment center, pharmaceutical
company
or medical staffing agency. Those things cost money.

I receive calls every day from good people who seek treatment and
have no
medical insurance, money or rich relatives to help.

I’m sure that those who wish to throw stones at “treatment pimps”
would be
glad to donate their pay checks to pay for their detox. If so I
will gladly
provide my services at any time pro bono.

Talk is so cheap.

Howard, you have earned the respect of so many and rightly deserve
it. I am
sure that many others on this site have also done much at their
own expense to
help others. Yet some are just full of shit and feel they contribute
something
by bashing others whom they have never met and  know nothing about.
That is a
sin. plain and simple.

To them, I state, another dose of mother Iboga, perhaps? This time
the
message that love cures not hate, will get through.. we all need
to work together.
There are so many we have to convince that we can’t afford to fraction
off
others who work towards the same goal.

G-d bless you all (even those who believe in 12 step programs).

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 9:49:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think both of you are right. My mistake, he’s not last he’s near the
end, last is ‘W.L. Hearn’ it is almost always there in Mash’s papers
🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:43:38 -0700 Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
On the issue of the last named author on a paper on some occasions
that
individual, I believe Glick may be an example on some of his papers,

where the last named author is the mover and shaker and the corresponding

(first) author is an upcoming student/colleague.

This is my experience in science as well, with the main journals
at least. The last name is the person in whose lab the work was

done.  (I’m not sure if there’s a normal order at the end of the
list
for Principal Investigators when 2 labs are involved.)

Bill

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 9:43:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On the issue of the last named author on a paper on some occasions that
individual, I believe Glick may be an example on some of his papers,
where the last named author is the mover and shaker and the corresponding
(first) author is an upcoming student/colleague.

This is my experience in science as well, with the main journals
at least. The last name is the person in whose lab the work was
done.  (I’m not sure if there’s a normal order at the end of the list
for Principal Investigators when 2 labs are involved.)

Bill

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 9:21:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/14/03 1:16:00 AM, crownofthorns@hushmail.com writes:

Nobody has ever called Mash or Glick treatment pimps, they’re scientists.
You don’t exist anywhere except last on some paper Mash wrote. That is
all I’m finding online. In science that’s the ‘throwing someone a bone’
listing 😉

On the issue of the last named author on a paper on some occasions that
individual, I believe Glick may be an example on some of his papers, where the last
named author is the mover and shaker and the corresponding (first) author is
an upcoming student/colleague.

Just my recollection.  I could be wrong.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 9:17:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/14/03 12:51:49 AM, AQUIS18@aol.com writes:

Glad to hear you would actually endorse attendance at the CSAM conference
where “treatment pimps” like myself, Dr. Mash, Dr. Glick and others will
be speaking about Ibogaine.

Considering I was at the forefront of NIDA/FDA/U of M ibogaine development,
can CSAM be far behind.  I support any venue in which information about
ibogaine is presented as I believe any treatment environment in which ibogaine is
used will improve of itself and benefit persons treated.

Send money! 😉 http://www.doraweiner.org/donation.html

Regards as always,

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 9:15:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro I don’t think anyone cares what you do for a living. The only messages
that replied to you were people who busted you for writing a totally
fake message full of lies. From the same account you used to post about
the Star last year.

Nobody has ever called Mash or Glick treatment pimps, they’re scientists.
You don’t exist anywhere except last on some paper Mash wrote. That is
all I’m finding online. In science that’s the ‘throwing someone a bone’
listing 😉

Nobody has ever replied to you to anything except what you yourself put
on the list. That’s the Star and the big lie message. What vector replied
is true enough. If you’re so important then why are you writing dumb
messages to the ibogaine list asking questions that Mash and Patrick
can answer? It means neither one of them wants to help you with whatever
it is that your doing or whoever your trying to get arrested or shut
down.

Nice love and iboga closing. Done any ever?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:50:35 -0700 AQUIS18@aol.com wrote:
Glad to hear you would actually endorse attendance at the CSAM conference

where “treatment pimps” like myself, Dr. Mash, Dr. Glick and others
will be
speaking about Ibogaine.

It is our hope and aspiration that Ibogaine will be available as
soon as
possible, to all those in need of its healing efficacy.

It seems that many on this site feel this can be done without the
hard work
of dedicated people who have the credentials to make the powers
that be listen
to the data.

We “treatment pimps” are not the game, but have to play the game,
if Ibogaine
is to ever be made accessible to all who seek it.

Practicing addiction medicine and addiction research costs money
and is also
our avocation. It is,, in part how professionals in the addiction
field,
support themselves and their families.

I don’t know what many on the site do for a living but I wonder
if they give
it away or charge for their work.

All  should go to their employers on Monday A.M. and announce that
their
services are now free.

Let he that is without sin cast the first stone and all of that…..

I know most are good people or they would not be behind this endeavor
in the
first place.

Then why are so many, so angry at the world? Addiction, is truly
a fear and
anger based dis/ease.

I feel fortunate, blessed and honored to have chosen a career that
allows to
me to help so many on a daily basis, ( regardless of their ability
to pay).
Unfortunately, I do not own a hospital, treatment center, pharmaceutical
company
or medical staffing agency. Those things cost money.

I receive calls every day from good people who seek treatment and
have no
medical insurance, money or rich relatives to help.

I’m sure that those who wish to throw stones at “treatment pimps”
would be
glad to donate their pay checks to pay for their detox. If so I
will gladly
provide my services at any time pro bono.

Talk is so cheap.

Howard, you have earned the respect of so many and rightly deserve
it. I am
sure that many others on this site have also done much at their
own expense to
help others. Yet some are just full of shit and feel they contribute
something
by bashing others whom they have never met and  know nothing about.
That is a
sin. plain and simple.

To them, I state, another dose of mother Iboga, perhaps? This time
the
message that love cures not hate, will get through.. we all need
to work together.
There are so many we have to convince that we can’t afford to fraction
off
others who work towards the same goal.

G-d bless you all (even those who believe in 12 step programs).

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: AQUIS18@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 8:50:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Glad to hear you would actually endorse attendance at the CSAM conference where “treatment pimps” like myself, Dr. Mash, Dr. Glick and others will be speaking about Ibogaine.

It is our hope and aspiration that Ibogaine will be available as soon as possible, to all those in need of its healing efficacy.

It seems that many on this site feel this can be done without the hard work of dedicated people who have the credentials to make the powers that be listen to the data.

We “treatment pimps” are not the game, but have to play the game, if Ibogaine is to ever be made accessible to all who seek it.

Practicing addiction medicine and addiction research costs money and is also our avocation. It is,, in part how professionals in the addiction field, support themselves and their families.

I don’t know what many on the site do for a living but I wonder if they give it away or charge for their work.

All  should go to their employers on Monday A.M. and announce that their services are now free.

Let he that is without sin cast the first stone and all of that…..

I know most are good people or they would not be behind this endeavor in the first place.

Then why are so many, so angry at the world? Addiction, is truly a fear and anger based dis/ease.

I feel fortunate, blessed and honored to have chosen a career that allows to me to help so many on a daily basis, ( regardless of their ability to pay). Unfortunately, I do not own a hospital, treatment center, pharmaceutical company or medical staffing agency. Those things cost money.

I receive calls every day from good people who seek treatment and have no medical insurance, money or rich relatives to help.

I’m sure that those who wish to throw stones at “treatment pimps”  would be glad to donate their pay checks to pay for their detox. If so I will gladly provide my services at any time pro bono.

Talk is so cheap.

Howard, you have earned the respect of so many and rightly deserve it. I am sure that many others on this site have also done much at their own expense to help others. Yet some are just full of shit and feel they contribute something by bashing others whom they have never met and  know nothing about. That is a sin. plain and simple.

To them, I state, another dose of mother Iboga, perhaps? This time the message that love cures not hate, will get through.. we all need to work together. There are so many we have to convince that we can’t afford to fraction off  others who work towards the same goal.

G-d bless you all (even those who believe in 12 step programs).

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Special Project
Date: September 13, 2003 at 4:53:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

Having recently submitted a request for donations for Dora Weiner Projects,
http://www.doraweiner.eastwest.html it had just come to our attention that we
neglected to request funding for a special project.  This will be participation
in the Drug Users Conference sponsored by the Danish drug users group of
BrugerForeningen that will take place in Copenhagen October 31 and November 1,
2003.  We have had indications of interest in ibogaine from some of the
conference participants and think this would be an exceptional opportunity to learn
from our European colleagues and provide information on ibogaine.

The Dora Weiner Foundation is seeking $3,000.00 in tax deductible
contributions to allow participation in the BrugerForeningen conference.  This will be
the third of three conferences that DWF will have the opportunity to participate
in during the months of October and November 2003.  The California Society of
Addiction Medicine Conference and the Drug Policy Alliance Conference are
already referenced at http://www.ibogaine.org/csam.html and
http://www.ibogaine.org/dpa.html

Donations to the Dora Weiner Foundation may be sent to our address listed
below. Checks and money orders should be made payable to Dora Weiner Foundation.
Donations from countries other than the United States should be in the form of
checks or money orders in US dollars drawn on US banks.

Donations should be mail to:

Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA

Thank you for your continued support.

We also suggest that other persons interest in this conference consider
attending.  Attendance is limited to 70 persons.  See Conference material below.

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
*************************************

The following information was obtained from
http://www.methadone.org/upcoming_conferences.html
It is the second conference listed on that page.

BrugerForeningen
Danish Drug User’s Union

L   S   D Landelijk Steunpunt Druggebruikers

 

MOVING FORWARD

Invitational conference on drug user activism

International Drug User Day
2003, October 31st/November 1st
Copenhagen, Denmark

Invitational conference
The Danish Drug Users Union “BrugerForeningen” and the Dutch National
Interest Group of Drug Users “LSD” proudly announce an upcoming meeting on drug user
activism. The gathering will take place to mark both the International Drug
User Day and the 10th anniversary of BrugerForeningen.
Due to the character of the event, the number of participants is limited to
70 persons.
The organizers therefore take the lead in inviting those user activists that
are expected to contribute to, and benefit from, the event. The language will
be English. The budget is limited, and so participants are asked to cover all
costs related to attending.
Program
The program on Friday October 31st includes training sessions on working with
the media and on building a network of allies. In addition, 3 workshops are
planned around the following topics:

*   Workshop A:
Drug User activism in the Digital Age (introductions on PalTalk, list
servers, press releases etc)

*   Workshop B:
Obstacles and challenges to user organisations (success criteria, ways of
achieving your goals,keeping workers motivated etc)

*   Workshop C:
Lifting activism to a professional level

Please not that both trainings and workshops are repeated during the day.
A cyber cafe will be available throughout both days and a programme of videos
and movies will be shown.
Saturday November 1st will be given over to various sightseeing trips, e.g.
to Christiania. It will also be possible to arrange smaller meetings and
further discussions at the BrugerForeningen.
Registration
Deadline for registration is September 15th. Please contact
registration_idud2003@hotmail.com for a registration form.
Registration forms returned after this date will not guarantee a place.
Medications
It is possible to bring Methadone into Denmark with the relevant paperwork,
and so those who are currently in a substitution program (methadone, for
example) are asked to ensure that they bring enough with them to last for the
duration of their stay. For those who have difficulties in this regard, we can, as a
last resort, make arrangements for provision here. In the latter case, please
let us know as far in advance as possible.
Note
This year’s celebration of International Drug User Day will be different from
previous events organized in the Netherlands. We need to stress that during
the daytime, people are expected to take part in the various training and
workshop sessions.
On Saturday evening a party will be held at BrugerForeningen.
Download Registration Form
Information
Further information, such as names of speakers and trainers and a list of
guests will become available by the end of September. In case you need more
information before, please contact either Joergen Kjaer (BF) at
jk@brugerforeningen.dk or Has Cornelissen (LSD) at hashas@planet.nl BrugerForeningen

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] looks like marijuana
Date: September 12, 2003 at 11:11:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

10 Sep 2003

LANDOWNER: ‘POT’ ACTUALLY DEER FOOD

by ROBIN FITZGERALD, Sun Herald
————————————————————————
‘Pot’ Plants Are Actually Deer Food, Landowner Says
HARRISON COUNTY – Narcotics officers who seized more than 500 suspicious
plants on Monday might have had their first encounter with a plant that looks like
marijuana, but isn’t.
The man who claims he planted them at a hunting camp off Herman Ladner Road
said they’re kenaf, a high-protein plant that attracts deer and increases their
size.  He’s angry, and he blames the Harrison County sheriff for tearing up
the land and destroying his investment.
“I want him to fix the road and compensate me for the plants,” said
53-year-old Marion Waltman of West Harrison County.  “They drove heavy equipment right
down the center of my field.  That crop would have been good until the second
hard freeze.”
Waltman, president of the Boarhog Hunting Club, said he paid $2,000 for a ton
of kenaf and hemp seeds.  He planted them in three fields the club leases
from a timber company.  Herman Ladner Road is north of Mississippi 53 and
Cemetery Road.
“The sheriff could have come to me and asked or taken samples before he did
anything,” Waltman said.
He said he learned the plants were destroyed while listening to news reports
Monday night.
Sheriff George H.  Payne Jr.  said he never reported the plants were
marijuana, only that they appeared to be marijuana.
“We knew we were going to be criticized, whatever we did,” Payne said.  “We
decided it was in the best interests of the public to remove it and test it.
We had received complaints of people going out there and pulling off the
leaves.”
Officers performed a field test, but the test was inconclusive, he said.
Samples are being sent to a crime lab and to Mississippi State University, which
is developing and testing kenaf seeds.  Test results will take a couple of
weeks.
Waltman said the kenaf plant does look like marijuana.
“But it has seven leaves at the top and okra-looking leaves at the bottom,”
he said.  “Marijuana only has five leaves.  Any drug officer should have been
able to figure it out.”
Waltman said he ordered a supply through a Senatobia biologist who also is a
game warden.
Capt.  Steve Campbell, the sheriff’s internal affairs director, said he
learned Tuesday that narcotics officers in other areas of the state also have found
plants that closely resemble marijuana.
“We noticed a slight difference,” Campbell said.  “But it’s kind of like
you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.  What if it turned out to be
marijuana and we left it there?”
MSU is studying two strains of kenaf, Campbell said.
One strain, Everglade 41, has broad leaves, and resembles the majority of
plants removed from west Harrison County.  The other strain, T-2 or Thailand, has
a leaf that looks identical to marijuana.
The university sells the seeds for $3.25 a pound, Campbell said, and the
seeds are so tiny that both kinds could easily end up in the same bag.
“That would lend credence to why we found 10 times as much of one kind of
plant as the other,” Campbell said.
Waltman said his seed package included a mixture of hemp.  Officers didn’t
remove the hemp.
“Hemp’s not illegal,” he said.  “It’s a member of the hibiscus family.”
Waltman said he also wants an apology from the sheriff.
“And I want trespassing charges filed against the people who have been out
there harvesting the plants, thinking it was marijuana, and the kids that have
been riding four-wheelers out there.”
————————————————————————
MAP posted-by: Keith Brilhart
Pubdate: Wed, 10 Sep 2003
Source: Sun Herald (MS)
Copyright: 2003, The Sun Herald
Contact: letters@sunherald.com
Website: http://www.sunherald.com
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/432
Author: ROBIN FITZGERALD

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After the plan
Date: September 12, 2003 at 2:37:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

how your ability and inclination
to connect to and rely on people changed after your experience.

I would love to experience community in the sense that you
describe in Bwiti,

Remember, it is a church. Maybe you could get some of that from
a more local church, perhaps one of the more freethinking ones
like Unitarian, Unity, Quaker.. something to consider checking
out, anyway.

I guess what i’m sayin’ about relating to people is…it is
very dangerous to go searching for commuinity in a police
state, at least at this time.  The fact is at least half of
the people would turn me in to the police if they knew what
i was up against.

As Nick implied, one cannot necessarily “come out” to everyone,
it’s necessary to build trust with individuals. Doing good things
in the present could be a big start in a church-like community
(perhaps a creative community like a drum circle, or a volunteer
setting). Plus there’s therapy, if you can find something that
agrees with you – e.g. for the legal confidentiality in 1-on-1
therapy.

There are definitely people doing good out there, e.g. I remember
a case in Texas maybe 10 years ago when church folks were giving
asylum to refugees from Central America and won a case the gov’t
brought against them (the Arizona part of that shelter movement
lost their case, I wonder if any are still in jail).

Hopefully, one day i’ll get to the point of being able to
throw a few starfish back in the ocean myself.

So in yourself you are already really in community.

Bill

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] can anyone explain this?
Date: September 12, 2003 at 2:09:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2-digit numbers with the ‘sum digits & subtract’ algorithm yield
a pattern of multiples of 9. Every multiple of 9 in the chart has
the same symbol, and that symbol (I predict) is what will appear
in the crystal ball. When you “Click here” to try again, the symbols
change to hide this regular pattern.

10 -> 9
11 -> 9
12 -> 9

19 -> 9
20 -> 18
21 -> 18

29 -> 18
30 -> 27

Bill

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] can anyone explain this?
Date: September 12, 2003 at 1:24:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/12/03 3:20:12 PM, iboga@guest.arnes.si writes:

http://www.mysticalball.com/

Marko

Dude, i saw this crystal ball guy on ibogaine! he revealed my inner most dark
secrets and then laughed at me. Can you explain that?

but clicking on the ball only worked once for me. :^(

Dr Kroupa?

~dh

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 12, 2003 at 1:17:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
These patients all return to their environment after treatment here. How
do I accomplish what you say is necessary?

Marc, what I was inquiring about is your involvement in structuring an
aftercare plan for Ibogaine treated addicts.

The iboga experience usually takes all their energy and focus for 4 – 12
days, then they return to their environment. All my lectures, talk,
love, diet examples may well get lost amidst their life which is
typically in some degree of crisis.

Absolutely, I know this all too well. It is the planting of the seeds by people
like yourself that matters though.

Once free of my influence, powerful forces of dark have an influence on
their lives, friends who are substance abusers, poverty, illness, mental
illness, lack of support, finances, etc.

undoubtedly.

Three people work around the clock for 4 – 10 days to help these
patients end their drug cravings, get through withdrawl and then give
them a chance at a new approach to their lives. But we are not financed
with a thin dime of anyone’s money so to say we are providing a
dis-service to the addict (whose food, accommodation, treatment and all
other costs are paid for by me) stings.

Marc, I am not saying the service YOU provide is a dis-service. ***I believe
you are doing a good thing by offering to help addicts regain some
freedom/dignity that addiction/life/society has robbed them of.*** I was elated
to hear that the Iboga Therapy House opened it’s doors. If I come across as
critical it is only out of love for my fellow addicts garnered with my personal
experience of being treated as well as sitting as a guide.

MY POINT was: it is my opinion that it is a dis-service to dose someone without
helping them (because in the end, it IS up to THEM) structure an aftercare
plan. What they do with that info is entirely their choice and the treatment
provider cannot assume responsibility for the addict once they leave the
treatment facility.

Let me share my experience;

When I was treated I went through several different channels. One was the
medicine “provider”. Another was an ethnographer/fellow ibonaut/ex-addict who
interviewed me on my drug history, and laid out an aftercare plan (and in
retrospect, was probably the most influencial, hell, I eventually married
her!). The third, was the actual treatment provider, who focused little on
aftercare and didn’t seem to have much experience with addicts (this person
allowed me to be in control of my methadone stash, quite a few milligrams as I
had in my possesion 3 weeks worth of doses) – which in retrospect was really
poor planning, whatever, he was learning as we all are in life -I’m just
thankful I educated myself on the dangers of mixing opiates and ibogaine. There
was the resident chemist who was the REAL guide and companion through the
experience, but that is another story. Last, but not least, was the unending,
unconditional and compassionate support of Mr Lotsof who was cheering me on
every step of the way.

I am forever grateful for the help each and every one these people provided to
me, as I am sure most, if not all of your patients feel towards you. They
helped me because they are kind, compassionate and loving people, as one would
assume you are. Certainly there could have been improvements in the process,
obviously learned through experience. ***That is all I am offering here, my own
and others hard-earned experience -something that money cannot buy.***

I did return to heroin for a brief spell after ibogaine. And guess what? I was
blowing off my aftercare plan and I knew it! But those seeds were planted and
were there to nurture, all it took was some action on my part. Life
post-ibogaine is not a bubble. Shit does and will hit the fan. Coping skills
are like a really good thing for an addict to learn. Because without them, life
is seriously fucked and the one thing we know -self medication- is readily at
hand.

It sounds as though you do touch on some semblance of aftercare plan, it is
only my hope that you continue to expand upon and refine that process and
invite the people you treat back for support. It may not be
appropriate/convienent for everyone, but you may consider asking sucessfully
treated alumni to come and volunteer at the Iboga house. God knows I really
could have used a fellow addict with ibo experience in close proximity during
treatment.

Would you think the 28 patients treated 43 times would be better off
without our treatment?

Perhaps not, but I have insufficient information on each individual to answer
that question reasonably. There ARE people who ibogaine is not appropriate for.
People with mental illness, health complications and the list goes on, that
data is in the protocols and more is being discovered as this whole thing
develops.

~dh

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] can anyone explain this?
Date: September 12, 2003 at 12:27:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/12/03 3:20:12 PM, iboga@guest.arnes.si writes:

http://www.mysticalball.com/

Marko

Marko,

Unless I am wrong it appears that no matter what number group you select the
image is always the same.

Howard

Howard

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 12, 2003 at 12:37:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Let me say I have no training whatsoever.

As to dosing someone without discussion….

Let me assure you every addicted person has had many talks and
discussions and rehab with change in mind before they met me. But they
still ended up with me, all their previous rehab experiences
notwithstanding.

These patients all return to their environment after treatment here. How
do I accomplish what you say is necessary?

The iboga experience usually takes all their energy and focus for 4 – 12
days, then they return to their environment. All my lectures, talk,
love, diet examples may well get lost amidst their life which is
typically in some degree of crisis.

Once free of my influence, powerful forces of dark have an influence on
their lives, friends who are substance abusers, poverty, illness, mental
illness, lack of support, finances, etc.

Three people work around the clock for 4 – 10 days to help these
patients end their drug cravings, get through withdrawl and then give
them a chance at a new approach to their lives. But we are not financed
with a thin dime of anyone’s money so to say we are providing a
dis-service to the addict (whose food, accommodation, treatment and all
other costs are paid for by me) stings.

Would you think the 28 patients treated 43 times would be better off
without our treatment?

Marc

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:19 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan

An aftercare plan doesn’t have to cost a dime.

It is a commitment to changes and a new, healthy way to live which
should be
discussed, supported and outlined by the Ibogaine treatment provider.

Dosing someone with ibogaine without discussion and focus on life
post-ibogaine
is a dis-service to the addict being treated.

An aftercare plan could consist simply of a Healthy Diet(something that
escapes
most addicts, BTW), Excercise and Lifestyle Changes. Meetings aren’t a
bad idea
either, if only for the support of people going thru similar changes.
The
individual can decide for themselves if the meetings help or not. All of
this
doesn’t cost a thing.

Professional help like therapy is an option, and in some cases necessary
and
certainly costs money, that is for sure. It depends on the individuals
resources and/or willingness to pursue their freedom on wether therapy
is for
them.

Relying on will power alone is shakey ground for an addict, I am
surprised you
believe so much in it.

I ask again, since you are apparently treating people on what seems a
regular
basis, do you have any professional training in counseling, therapy or
psychology? Do you have a staff with such training?

Have you considered offering post-ibogaine focus/support groups for
Iboga House
Alumni? Prefereably staffed by someone with professional experience in
group
counseling?

~dh aka gamma

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Well, none of my patients had an afterplan. How can many of them? No
jobs, bad health, burned bridges, no money, no close family, problems,
problems.

But they are all improved in their quality of life, so its not a waste
of their or my effort. Many are still drug abuse free.

What kind of afterplan should they have? And where will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?

I dearly wish they all had loving, helping, wise counselors close at
hand but alas, mostly they have just themselves afterward. That is why
I
hope iboga helps them discover their SELF and from there carry out the
will of the self.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal: Marc

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve over their own body
and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change in lefestyle until
a
will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is something to what you
are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how it ruled my life
(no
joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a spiritual
experience
that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point that I felt my
spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new life. That
strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the time-payment plan. But I
wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of the Ibogaine
healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

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From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] After the plan
Date: September 12, 2003 at 12:08:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

how your ability and inclination
to connect to and rely on people changed after your experience.

Well, that is a very complex situation.  I would love to experience community in the sense that you describe in Bwiti, but even if i was (and hopefully one day i will get to) able to experience that i would still be coming back to a ‘community’ very different then that.  I suppose me facing jail for longer then one night is putting a bit of fear in me, i think getting it over with will be good for something if only to let the fear completly go.  They do some crazy shit here in the name of justice and i want to make sure that the systM doesn’t fuck me too bad.  I would love to be able to live where people care for one another rather then looking the other way, but that is not the reality of the situation.  And the iboga has only re-enforced my belief that i don’t need to get my personal affairs in order for my own benifit and security; i need to get my personal affairs in order so i’m not putting all my energy into only helping me.  I know the limits of a life, but it’s like that story about the kid on the beach where the star fish had washed ashore and were dying, as far as the eye could see were washed up starfish.  Kid doing what feels in heart, starts throwing the starfish back in the ocean, one by one.  Old man see’s the child walks up to kid asking “what are you doing?  can’t you see how many their are?  can’t you see that you will never save them all?”; the kid paused a moment, looked down at a washed up starfish, picked it up and threw it back in the ocean.  “I saved that one.”

I did not get to this point alone.  Marc saw it fit to pick me up and throw me back in the ocean.  It would be a disservice to his compassion to let things not change.  Thier has been a seed of hope planted in me, and i will reap what i sow.

I am not attempting to present a cookie cutter way to kick, i have no idea what is needed and what is best for other junkies or whatever; repairing life damage is hard work, and it takes time and thus patience and consitency.  I will not call a struggle anything other than a struggle.

I guess what i’m sayin’ about relating to people is…it is very dangerous to go searching for commuinity in a police state, at least at this time.  The fact is at least half of the people would turn me in to the police if they knew what i was up against.  The hustlers of the world have found a mecca in Dallas.  Their is the way things should be, and their is the way things are.  And so many of the hustlers are getting dressed up in police uniforms.  I know plenty of hustler/police that will arrest and sieze your herb and take it home with them after their shift.  Then the courts are prosicuting to the fullest extent of the law (and with Ashcroft memo’s floating around, they better fall in line or face the consequenses) around 10% of the people who use drugs, and the other 90% face nothing and that is justice, ruining lives in the name of saving them.  Prison union campaign contributions.  Police running licence plates in front of the methadone clinics each morning.  Poor selling battery acid as heroin on the street, i guess the lucky ones will miss.  The fact is this so called ‘war on drugs’ is a war neither likely, nor designed to succeed.  Spy vs. spy bullshit.  Hopefully, one day i’ll get to the point of being able to throw a few starfish back in the ocean myself.  Sorry so long.

—–Original Message—–
From: Bill Ross [mailto:ross@cgl.ucsf.edu]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003, 8:47 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan

The problem i see with allot of aftercare is it’s, in my opinion,
over-emphisis on talking about/’dealing with’ the past.

Did you try different types of aftercare? For example, aftercare
could be about dealing with feelings and situations in the present.

Perhaps i am the exeption, but it didn’t take me to long to
figure out what needed to be done, and to me, to pass up
what needs to be done to talk about it more is inaction,

It sounds like you may be the exception, given what I’ve read on
this list. Perhaps the iboga was able to do all you needed
without designated people to help. It would be interesting to hear
(if you’d be interested in sharing) how your ability and inclination
to connect to and rely on people changed after your experience.

Combining the missing parent concept put forward by Marc Emery
(expanded to include babies systematically left to cry) with the
description of a Bwiti ceremony I read recently, aftercare seems
like it could be a replacement for the bonding experience missing
from childhood.

The entire village takes part, each individual having a specific
role to play, instrument to play, part to sing, and they know the
ceremony intimately. Having an entire village dedicate a two solid
days or more to helping you clearly see through the fabric of this
reality in the most profound manner by singing chanting dancing is
an incomparable experience that even now moves me deeply. There is
such love eminating from these people. …
The whole experience is built around you the individual, and is
formulated with your happiness in mind. They are such mindful people,
not a thing is left out.
http://www.shaman-australis.com/~claude/tabernanthe-iboga-initiation.html

Bill

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 12, 2003 at 8:47:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings that
need
to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My
experience
is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and
connect
with the right person when certain feelings arise instead
of
isolating and using. I’m not talking about you personally
because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it seems to
come
down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and easy to
do
when we feel good but often seemingly impossible when the
feelings are actually there.

This fits with some thinking I was doing about what Jennifer
said
about her childhood.

I imagine that being left to cry as a baby between scheduled
feedings
might train a person to “swallow” their worst feelings, such
as fear,
anger, and physical discomfort, since there would be no one
to share
them with. This reflex in turn might lead to the sense of
isolation,
since it would prevent forming fully satisfactory bonds with
people
(unless the parents or others could detect the problem and
retrain the
child). Rather the child might well end up having a primary
goal of
satisfying the needs of the parents as a condition of
receiving love,
and the fact that love was received (although at an unfair
price) may
make it seem like a healthy situation.

If this is the case, then the habit would predate language
and the
ability to think, which could explain why it’s so hard to
act
differently when the feelings are there – the mind would
present the
“swallowing” as the correct thing to do, and if a drug
helped to do
this, the drug would be the correct thing. So learning to
reach out
to someone who could accept these uncomfortable feelings
could be
the natural antidote. I wonder if being heard in such a
situation
might even feel like a drug high,

Normally you gotta be in an environment where
there are experienced people who can help you and also give
you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that they
do,
that you feel safe to really show yourself, however you
are.

Sounds like excellent advice.

Na nina na kombo, as they say in the Cameroun.

Nick, what does this mean?

Bill

I think it’s translated as “Watch Out for the Kombo.” The
Kombo is the female head of the Bwiti temple, so I believe it
can either be thought of as meaning Beware of the Kombo and
don’t piss her off, or as have some esoteric meaning about
the iboga experience and the Great Mother.

Nick

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 12, 2003 at 9:04:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem i see with allot of aftercare is it’s, in my
opinion, over-emphisis on talking about/’dealing with’ the
past.

Absolutely! IMO, it’s of very limited use to figure out the
so-called “reason” why you started using drugs. I figure most
addicts in psychotherapy will at some stage simply go along
with whatever the prevailing opinion of the therapist is,
just to keep them quiet. “OK, ok, my mum didn’t love me and
my dad was never there!”

It’s largely meaningless because you simply cannot
rationalize away feelings. They won’t go. The process of
talking therapy is only useful when it brings about
connection to the feelings underneath. And from there you
still need to learn how to express those feelings and do
different things with them than isolate and use drugs. And
you can learn that stuff without even bothering to delve into
your past. Everything you need is there in the present. The
stimuli that trigger the desire to use are always about.

I’ve done 3 out of 4 years of a therapist training with
Humaniversity in Holland, who have been successfully treating
addicts for decades, and it very rare you even need to bring
the past into play beyond sharings between participants.

Justifying, judging, rationalizing – all of this cerebral
stuff is all just a prelude to the individual accepting that
their drug use is a massive problem and actually electing
really put all their energy into rehab. It’s purely an
attitudinal thing, what happened in the past doesn’t matter.

Nick

Perhaps i am the exeption, but it didn’t take me to long to
figure out what needed to be done, and to me, to pass up what
needs to be done to talk about it more is inaction, and i’ve
never felt i had accomplished anything after a talking
session with anyone, weither they are “qualified or not”.  We
are judged by our actions, the only thing i have control over
is right now and am i doing the most with my right now that i
can, enough to not regret putting in more later?  Their is
simply too much to be done to spend so much time reliving the
past or trying to pin down a reason/justification for past
mistakes.  I think one of the loudest messages i’ve recieved
from my own iboga experience is that the time for talking is
long gone, and not only are actions the only thing that will
change this chaos, but their is responsibility to be taken
for actions that weren’t taken in the past.  I guess what i’m
trying to say is allot of this has to do with personal
identity, wiether cornered into opioids or trapped by choice,
i personally don’t want to be identified as a junkie anymore,
or ‘addict’ (i personally think addict better refers to the
person who can’t handle owning a cappachino machine because
they will have 40 cups in an hour, “if i have a beer or puff
herb i have to shootup”), and that is what it comes down to,
personal identity.  Like still looking at yourself as a
smoker or ex-smoker when quitting tobacco, it wasn’t until i
looked at myself as a non-smoker (not ex-smoker) that it
really started to change.  My old NA sponsor used to say that
we all have a good dog and a bad dog and we feed one or the
other by our choices and actions and of course one will get
strong and one will starve.  It all comes down to am I
willing to do what needs to be done.  I have been finding
strength in soldiers of the past, we are not alone, we are
walking a road other men and women have gone down.

Their comes a point of ‘don’t tread on me’ energy that comes
when the sickness looses that control it had; the energy
revolutions are sparked with, the fact of not fearing a
response from the sickness by poking it with a stick says
volumes in my opinion about the miracle of this treatment.

I cannot tell you how empowering it was when i realized the
police cannot make me sick anymore, they can lock me up in a
cage with violent criminals and rapists, they can take away
my funding for college, but they can’t make me sick anymore.
And that makes this whole situation doable.  Many have had to
kick cold turkey in jail.  Their are way too many who have
had it way worse then i could imagine for me to think of
myself as a victom, one of my favorite movies to watch when
dope sick is grapes of wrath to remind me that others
struggles are much greater then my own.  4/5 of the worlds
population is living in the third world.  I like that line i
saw on the list a few days back ” i asked iboga how i can
change the world, it said ‘clean your room’ ”
Nothing is free.
Reap what you sow.
Every man think that his burden is the heaviest.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003, 2:22 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan

Not agreeing/disagreeing with anyone (how unusual),
just making a comment/observation/pseudo-opinion with
disclaimer and no warranty.

If you deal in absolutes, yes unless someone wants to
quit (drugs) ibo won’t do it, but it is often in
degrees and ibo can shift the scale. Ibo also changes
some realities and understanding, changes what is
normally possible. So if someone was basing their
existance on a particular set of
beliefs/experiences… well absolutely ibogaine can
come in and let someone see that differently and
assist in changing them to what they truely are
(kind-of/sort-of). It isn’t going to change that which
does not want to change or alter something from its
nature – it WILL help someone be who/what they are,
can help someone “grow up” or “get real” (…).

“> What kind of afterplan should they have? And where
will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?”

Well, 12 steps if you got a buck, or if not. There are
also non-12 step groups (Rational Recovery, SMART…)
there are on-line meetings, they could subscribe to
the ibogaine list(s) though a more “patient”
orientated list would be much better. Once I went to
an out-patient (45 day) treatment that was available
from the county, quite free (they SUCKED,
co-dependents ran it, but it was something). Most
counties (or city/state/federal) have some drug
treatment help that is free or sliding scale. Then
there are churches and other organizations, some
provide free or sliding scale payment plans.

SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING, almost anything (on the
to-do/healthy list) that is a plan. Go to the
GYM/walk/sunshine/air/beach/fly a kite is a plan, eat
good food is a plan, get a job is a plan… Every day
get up and get your ass out of the house or out from
under the bridge, break the pattern… is a plan. But
many addicts just don’t, nothing, “that won’t work,
this won’t”, so why bother… Often fill in the words
after “But” or “I can’t because”…  Whatever it is,
do something and if that doesn’t work or you grow past
that, do something else, and if it does work, slip it
in your list of BASIC stuff that works for you. If you
are an addict and do nothing to recover after ibo
treatment you will likely fall back into the default
pattern (the ones we are trying to change) if you
don’t replace it with another pattern of behavior.
This is one reason in my mind several treatments are
often necessary, it can be as simple as (though IMO it
is not) re-treating and giving the patient the
opportunity to make a life, get it together, it takes
time (more for some than others). Somethimes the PLAN
(from their end) does not happen till after the
treatment, they can’t see that far, can’t even see
past getting off the stuff. Then maybe start with 12
step meetings if you don’t have anything else. Don’t
like the 12 steps, then good, do them till you find
something else… but don’t sit there with nothing to
do waiting for something to come into your mind to do,
cuz I know what that will be. Keep busy, do healthy
stuff – Libraries are free BTW, read a book (recovery
maybe?), take out a free tape/CD, that is if you have
a VCR/TV/HOME… Libraries also generally have free
access to the internet and bulletin boards/information
that may be of help. ALSO, free papers, in NYC (I
think) the Village Voice is still free but there are
local papers with information, often free/cheap help
or classes are available.

And if you can do a real plan, do it. I have seen
people set-up ibo treatment then follow it up with
in-patient/out-patient.

BTW, Addicts are not always from missing same sex
parents… abusive homes or wherever, there is just no
such qualifications that universally apply. For
instance, almost every doctor/nurse/pharmacist I know
of that got addicted does not fit that profile. They
often came from good homes and if they didn’t (poor
home/family/daddy figure), by the time they became
doctors/nurses/pharmacists… they are more often more
over it and less of a risk than someone who came from
a good environment. There are a whole lot of
stock-brokers (lawyers/whoever) who got rich, got
coke, got crack and wound up down and out in NYC.
There are a variety of reasons, not everyone fits any
set pattern anything like all of the time or even most
of the time.
Where I came from, I saw lots of people just get into
drugs cause the park was directly across the street
from where I grew up. Yes the numbers no doubt lean in
several directions, heredity, environment, exposure,
family, lack of DADDY/MOMMY, BAD DADDY/MOMMY… and I
know addicts/alcoholics/single/broken home parents who
managed to recover as well as bring up healthy
non-addict children.

All IMVHO at the moment.

Brett

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Well, none of my patients had an afterplan. How can
many of them? No
jobs, bad health, burned bridges, no money, no close
family, problems,
problems.

But they are all improved in their quality of life,
so its not a waste
of their or my effort. Many are still drug abuse
free.

What kind of afterplan should they have? And where
will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?

I dearly wish they all had loving, helping, wise
counselors close at
hand but alas, mostly they have just themselves
afterward. That is why I
hope iboga helps them discover their SELF and from
there carry out the
will of the self.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal: Marc

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve
over their own body
and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change
in lefestyle until a
will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is
something to what you
are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how
it ruled my life (no
joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a
spiritual experience
that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point
that I felt my
spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new
life. That
strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the
time-payment plan. But I
wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than
that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of
the Ibogaine
healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare
plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

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From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] can anyone explain this?
Date: September 12, 2003 at 11:19:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.mysticalball.com/

Marko

From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine
Date: September 12, 2003 at 9:41:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have used it myself.
My personal experience is mine alone, I don’t discuss it.
I think I do it ethically.

Marko

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, ad astra wrote:

I have a question for iboga/ibogaine treatment
providers.  Have you used iboga/ibogaine yourself?  If
so, how has your personal experience given you insight
into the treatment of your patients?  If not, do you
think it is ethical to provide a powerful psychoactive
drug to others when you are personally unfamiliar with
its effects?

a.

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From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Drinking alcohol.
Date: September 12, 2003 at 1:36:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

By Steve Connor Science Editor
12 September 2003


Excessive drinking at weekends puts a million people in hospital casualty units every year, according to a study that reveals the huge scale of the alcohol problem in Britain.

A survey of 32 accident and emergency departments found that four out of 10 people seen on Saturday nights and Sunday mornings had been involved in an alcohol-related incident, often a violent assault or drink driving.

Colin Drummond, a specialist in addiction psychiatry at St George’s Hospital Medical School in London, said that alcohol addiction was a growing problem among young people, especially women. He told the British Association for the Advancement of Science at Salford University that the Government needed a national strategy to fight a threat far more serious than drugs such as cocaine or heroin.

Professor Drummond said the promotion of alcohol was getting out of control, with growing numbers of young men and women being drawn into a culture of serious drinking.

”The alcohol problem in the UK is much bigger than the drug problem. In the UK about a third of men and a fifth of women drink above the Government’s safe guidelines for alcohol consumption. By comparison, about one in 200 people has a serious drug problem.”

He said he was concernedby a 25 per cent increase in alcohol-related deaths in the past 10 years. This was compounded by a 32 per cent increase in alcohol misuse by young males aged between 18 and 24 in the past 12 years.

”All the indicators are upwards,” Professor Drummond said. “If you look at women of the same age, there’s actually been a 70 per cent increase in alcohol misuse over that period. There are huge marketing effects taking place. There’s a lot of money spent on making drinking attractive to women and this is part of the reason.”

Some more explicit forms of alcohol advertising should be restricted, he went on. “I think advertising that uses sexual imagery is a problem.”

Health campaigns were competing with multinational companies that he said spent billions on advertising. This means that the health message often got lost. Professor Drummond also accused the alcohol industry of flouting voluntary advertising codes.

A national strategy was needed to consider a ban on certain forms of alcohol advertising, he said. The Government should also think about raising the drinking age, putting warning labels on bottles or increasing prices to discourage binge drinking. “There has been a lack of funding and political will to support efforts to deal with alcohol problems and we’re hopeful that the Government will develop a national alcohol strategy [for] … a sensible and appropriately funded approach,” he said.

A GP who spent between 10 and 30 minutes advising a patient on an alcohol problem could reduce excessive drinking by 20 per cent over a 12- month period. That was the sort of intervention than could combat the rise in drinking, Professor Drummond said.

”If alcohol is cheap and easily available it is very often the drug that people choose first to cope with their problems and before very long they develop an addiction … so it becomes very hard to cope with any problem without alcohol,” he said. “Alcohol is a drug like heroin or cannabis, and it produces addiction in a small proportion of people. The wealthier we are as a nation, the more we can afford to drink, and in the absence of any intervention to increase the cost of alcohol, you’re going to get this upward trend.”

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 11, 2003 at 11:41:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem i see with allot of aftercare is it’s, in my opinion,
over-emphisis on talking about/’dealing with’ the past.

Did you try different types of aftercare? For example, aftercare
could be about dealing with feelings and situations in the present.

Perhaps i am the exeption, but it didn’t take me to long to
figure out what needed to be done, and to me, to pass up
what needs to be done to talk about it more is inaction,

It sounds like you may be the exception, given what I’ve read on
this list. Perhaps the iboga was able to do all you needed
without designated people to help. It would be interesting to hear
(if you’d be interested in sharing) how your ability and inclination
to connect to and rely on people changed after your experience.

Combining the missing parent concept put forward by Marc Emery
(expanded to include babies systematically left to cry) with the
description of a Bwiti ceremony I read recently, aftercare seems
like it could be a replacement for the bonding experience missing
from childhood.

The entire village takes part, each individual having a specific
role to play, instrument to play, part to sing, and they know the
ceremony intimately. Having an entire village dedicate a two solid
days or more to helping you clearly see through the fabric of this
reality in the most profound manner by singing chanting dancing is
an incomparable experience that even now moves me deeply. There is
such love eminating from these people. …
The whole experience is built around you the individual, and is
formulated with your happiness in mind. They are such mindful people,
not a thing is left out.
http://www.shaman-australis.com/~claude/tabernanthe-iboga-initiation.html

Bill

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 11, 2003 at 10:59:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The problem i see with allot of aftercare is it’s, in my opinion, over-emphisis on talking about/’dealing with’ the past.  Perhaps i am the exeption, but it didn’t take me to long to figure out what needed to be done, and to me, to pass up what needs to be done to talk about it more is inaction, and i’ve never felt i had accomplished anything after a talking session with anyone, weither they are “qualified or not”.  We are judged by our actions, the only thing i have control over is right now and am i doing the most with my right now that i can, enough to not regret putting in more later?  Their is simply too much to be done to spend so much time reliving the past or trying to pin down a reason/justification for past mistakes.  I think one of the loudest messages i’ve recieved from my own iboga experience is that the time for talking is long gone, and not only are actions the only thing that will change this chaos, but their is responsibility to be taken for actions that weren’t taken in the past.  I guess what i’m trying to say is allot of this has to do with personal identity, wiether cornered into opioids or trapped by choice, i personally don’t want to be identified as a junkie anymore, or ‘addict’ (i personally think addict better refers to the person who can’t handle owning a cappachino machine because they will have 40 cups in an hour, “if i have a beer or puff herb i have to shootup”), and that is what it comes down to, personal identity.  Like still looking at yourself as a smoker or ex-smoker when quitting tobacco, it wasn’t until i looked at myself as a non-smoker (not ex-smoker) that it really started to change.  My old NA sponsor used to say that we all have a good dog and a bad dog and we feed one or the other by our choices and actions and of course one will get strong and one will starve.  It all comes down to am I willing to do what needs to be done.  I have been finding strength in soldiers of the past, we are not alone, we are walking a road other men and women have gone down.

Their comes a point of ‘don’t tread on me’ energy that comes when the sickness looses that control it had; the energy revolutions are sparked with, the fact of not fearing a response from the sickness by poking it with a stick says volumes in my opinion about the miracle of this treatment.

I cannot tell you how empowering it was when i realized the police cannot make me sick anymore, they can lock me up in a cage with violent criminals and rapists, they can take away my funding for college, but they can’t make me sick anymore.  And that makes this whole situation doable.  Many have had to kick cold turkey in jail.  Their are way too many who have had it way worse then i could imagine for me to think of myself as a victom, one of my favorite movies to watch when dope sick is grapes of wrath to remind me that others struggles are much greater then my own.  4/5 of the worlds population is living in the third world.  I like that line i saw on the list a few days back ” i asked iboga how i can change the world, it said ‘clean your room’ ”
Nothing is free.
Reap what you sow.
Every man think that his burden is the heaviest.

—–Original Message—–
From: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003, 2:22 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan

Not agreeing/disagreeing with anyone (how unusual),
just making a comment/observation/pseudo-opinion with
disclaimer and no warranty.

If you deal in absolutes, yes unless someone wants to
quit (drugs) ibo won’t do it, but it is often in
degrees and ibo can shift the scale. Ibo also changes
some realities and understanding, changes what is
normally possible. So if someone was basing their
existance on a particular set of
beliefs/experiences… well absolutely ibogaine can
come in and let someone see that differently and
assist in changing them to what they truely are
(kind-of/sort-of). It isn’t going to change that which
does not want to change or alter something from its
nature – it WILL help someone be who/what they are,
can help someone “grow up” or “get real” (…).

“> What kind of afterplan should they have? And where
will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?”

Well, 12 steps if you got a buck, or if not. There are
also non-12 step groups (Rational Recovery, SMART…)
there are on-line meetings, they could subscribe to
the ibogaine list(s) though a more “patient”
orientated list would be much better. Once I went to
an out-patient (45 day) treatment that was available
from the county, quite free (they SUCKED,
co-dependents ran it, but it was something). Most
counties (or city/state/federal) have some drug
treatment help that is free or sliding scale. Then
there are churches and other organizations, some
provide free or sliding scale payment plans.

SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING, almost anything (on the
to-do/healthy list) that is a plan. Go to the
GYM/walk/sunshine/air/beach/fly a kite is a plan, eat
good food is a plan, get a job is a plan… Every day
get up and get your ass out of the house or out from
under the bridge, break the pattern… is a plan. But
many addicts just don’t, nothing, “that won’t work,
this won’t”, so why bother… Often fill in the words
after “But” or “I can’t because”…  Whatever it is,
do something and if that doesn’t work or you grow past
that, do something else, and if it does work, slip it
in your list of BASIC stuff that works for you. If you
are an addict and do nothing to recover after ibo
treatment you will likely fall back into the default
pattern (the ones we are trying to change) if you
don’t replace it with another pattern of behavior.
This is one reason in my mind several treatments are
often necessary, it can be as simple as (though IMO it
is not) re-treating and giving the patient the
opportunity to make a life, get it together, it takes
time (more for some than others). Somethimes the PLAN
(from their end) does not happen till after the
treatment, they can’t see that far, can’t even see
past getting off the stuff. Then maybe start with 12
step meetings if you don’t have anything else. Don’t
like the 12 steps, then good, do them till you find
something else… but don’t sit there with nothing to
do waiting for something to come into your mind to do,
cuz I know what that will be. Keep busy, do healthy
stuff – Libraries are free BTW, read a book (recovery
maybe?), take out a free tape/CD, that is if you have
a VCR/TV/HOME… Libraries also generally have free
access to the internet and bulletin boards/information
that may be of help. ALSO, free papers, in NYC (I
think) the Village Voice is still free but there are
local papers with information, often free/cheap help
or classes are available.

And if you can do a real plan, do it. I have seen
people set-up ibo treatment then follow it up with
in-patient/out-patient.

BTW, Addicts are not always from missing same sex
parents… abusive homes or wherever, there is just no
such qualifications that universally apply. For
instance, almost every doctor/nurse/pharmacist I know
of that got addicted does not fit that profile. They
often came from good homes and if they didn’t (poor
home/family/daddy figure), by the time they became
doctors/nurses/pharmacists… they are more often more
over it and less of a risk than someone who came from
a good environment. There are a whole lot of
stock-brokers (lawyers/whoever) who got rich, got
coke, got crack and wound up down and out in NYC.
There are a variety of reasons, not everyone fits any
set pattern anything like all of the time or even most
of the time.
Where I came from, I saw lots of people just get into
drugs cause the park was directly across the street
from where I grew up. Yes the numbers no doubt lean in
several directions, heredity, environment, exposure,
family, lack of DADDY/MOMMY, BAD DADDY/MOMMY… and I
know addicts/alcoholics/single/broken home parents who
managed to recover as well as bring up healthy
non-addict children.

All IMVHO at the moment.

Brett

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Well, none of my patients had an afterplan. How can
many of them? No
jobs, bad health, burned bridges, no money, no close
family, problems,
problems.

But they are all improved in their quality of life,
so its not a waste
of their or my effort. Many are still drug abuse
free.

What kind of afterplan should they have? And where
will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?

I dearly wish they all had loving, helping, wise
counselors close at
hand but alas, mostly they have just themselves
afterward. That is why I
hope iboga helps them discover their SELF and from
there carry out the
will of the self.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal: Marc

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve
over their own body
and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change
in lefestyle until a
will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is
something to what you
are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how
it ruled my life (no
joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a
spiritual experience
that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point
that I felt my
spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new
life. That
strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the
time-payment plan. But I
wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than
that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of
the Ibogaine
healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare
plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine through the seasons
Date: September 11, 2003 at 9:45:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com> wrote:
A general question, particularly for people who have
used iboga/ibogaine at different times of the year.
Do you find that the season you take it has any effect
on the experience, or the aftereffects of the
experience.  For example, would taking it in the
springtime – a time of new growth, new life – be
different than taking it in the fall, when everything
is dying?

The two different times I took Ibogaine (5 years apart) were both in February
[unplanned] and the two experiences were as different as could be. The first
was akin to a liquid real near-death experience filled with wonderous and
beautiful visions – and the second was a whirlwind tour through the bowels of
humanity and its obsession with greed and war.

~dh

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine
Date: September 11, 2003 at 9:41:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a question for iboga/ibogaine treatment
providers.  Have you used iboga/ibogaine yourself?  If
so, how has your personal experience given you insight
into the treatment of your patients?  If not, do you
think it is ethical to provide a powerful psychoactive
drug to others when you are personally unfamiliar with
its effects?

It is my opinion that Ibogaine treatment providers (or at least the treatment
guides) should experience ibogaine first hand. This experience is without
paralell.

~dh

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick is it true?
Date: September 11, 2003 at 9:37:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The New Regime will look a lot more like this:

http://www.marcusgray.com/fetish/polish.htm

I posit a dramatic improvement in treatment outcomes.

Patrick

Dr. Hunter, a third opinion?

After careful consideration and much deliberation I posit the following
treatment personel in what could only be described as a retro-look:
http://members.aol.com/onosko2/nurse.jpeg

a close runner up is: http://www.evilscience.net/institutions/esu/nurse.gif

And of course for the ladies we have:
http://www.nursinggifts.com/images/largemalenurseshelfsitter.jpg

and for the gender confused:
http://contrapunctus.net/league/photo/pcd4096/006-nurse.3.jpg

We had to pass this candidate up, for obvious reasons:
http://www.mogozuzu.com/nurse.jpg

now, during treatment all the above treatment personel could likely look like
this: http://www.francis-bacon.cx/figures/nurse.jpg   – But do not be alarmed,
this is only a glitch in the matrix and just a pigment of your imagination.

Our research and development staff has decided on the following treatment
devices for our soon-to-open offshore clinic:

http://www.stanandconnie.com/photos/pecosbeautychair.jpg (for monitoring and
capturing Ibogaine induced visions)

http://www.studentambassadors.org/photos/humor/wickham.jpg (For the unwilling
addict)

http://www.coastergallery.com/GA/jammer09.jpg (for group treatments and proper
guidance)

Regards,

Dr. Hunter

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine
Date: September 11, 2003 at 9:08:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

For recreational reason I would rather use P.Cubensis .

A wise choice. Ibogaine is anything BUT recreational.

LOL

~dh

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 7:28:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett,
You are absolutely right and the oxygen analogy is a very good one!  I agree and understand everything you are saying.  Thank you for putting it to me like this.  Also, you are very correct in that these things tend to get passed down.  My father would like to help me very much, he’s struggled with addictions his whole life also, so he’s very understanding.  He loves me and I love him and we have a very close relationship.  Unfortunately, I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but my father is not much of a help to me because he’s also addicted to percocet right now, it’s been a couple years now.  He feels like a terrible father and that he’s setting a bad example, but he’s fighting his own battle so has no solid advice for me.  I do not want to be where he’s at later down the road (where my own children are concerned).  Thanks for pointing these things out to me and for your encouragment and faith in me.

Jennifer

Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jennifer,

Is it so selfish of you to make sure your daughter has
a clean healthy mother to love her, teach her and set
an example for her to follow??? An example I often use
is flying in a plane; if the oxygen goes out they tell
you to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and NOT
on your child first (if you have one). Why, because
you are no-good trying to hold/get the mask on your
child if you yourself run out of air yourself – as in
you are no-good to your daughter if you lose yourself.
It is a paradoxical thing, you come first makes it so
you can do the very best you can for your child. It is
making sure there is more (of mommy) for your daughter
for her entire life. Put whoever before you and you
may do neither of you any good. Just making a
point/observation. FWIW, I hear you working
it/understanding, there is a shift in logic that is
needed/will happen as you get cleaner/healthier,
things like this are part of it.

I assure you, your daughter will be happier if you do
whatever it takes to get yourself clean/sober/happy,
and let nothing stand in your way. It just isn’t going
to cut it for one day, saying “well honey, the reason
I was a drug addict all my life is because I was too
busy taking care of you” – and of course breaking the
cycle of addiction would be nice (it tends to get
passed on). I know I am overstating it a bit but the
sooner you end this, the better for both of you – IMO.
Putting your daughter in the way of that (getting
clean/happy…) is not something I think you are
after, looking back on it 10-20 years from now. It
just isn’t a reason, is a feeling/fear with words
wrapped around it.

“I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of
time away from family at this time and I certainly
can’t put it off until it’s more convenient, when
they’re older, etc”

Exactly, then something has to give. If it comes to
going into in-patient treatment and that is what it
takes, that is what it takes. I suggest having 100% of
anything and everything at your disposal to heal
yourself, no limits, no things that go “But…”. See,
just doing that increases your chances, no? (not that
you have to use them all).

BTW, you can do this.

Brett
— Nick Sandberg wrote:
>
>
>
> —- Original message —-
> >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Jennifer
> >Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
> normal
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >
> > Hi Nick! Yes, I agree that sometimes it’s like
> ok,
> > this is why I take drugs. So, what do we do
> with
> > this information? Hmmm… well, doesn’t really
> > matter how we got here, right? It only matters
> how
> > we get out. I suppose it might be helpful to
> find
> > out why if it helps with understanding the best
> way
> > to NOT get back there again though.
> >
> > I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of
> time
> > away from family at this time and I certainly
> can’t
> > put it off until it’s more convenient, when
> they’re
> > older, etc. because somethings always going to
> be
> > going on that makes it not a good time. I have
> been
> > thinking a lot about what I am willing and/or
> able
> > to do.
> >
> > I can afford to take a few days or so away and I
> can
> > also commit to being in therapy, seeing a
> counselor,
> > or going to some other after care after a few
> days
> > away to deal with the detox. This is the only
> way I
> > feel I can meet the needs of my family and also
> get
> > myself straightened out. I just don’t feel like
> > it’s right for my kids to suffer because of my
> > mistakes.
> >
> > I feel certain I will go back to drugs even if I
> > make it through another w/d unless I also
> address
> > some of my issues and find new ways to cope with
> > life. That’s why I am placing my hope and faith
> > that Ibogaine will be able to ‘help’ me
> accomplish
> > these goals. I am getting to the place I need
> to be
> > to commit to staying away from drugs forever. I
> do
> > not want to fail again. I really want my life
> back.
> >
> > Thanks so much for your thoughts and support
> with
> > this!! 🙂
> >
> > Jennifer
>
> Hi Jennifer,
>
> Well I hope things work out. I like your realistic
> attitude
> but I’m sure it would also be amazing for your kids
> if you
> could stay clean too, so personally I don’t think
> you should
> put it out that it’s not fair on them for you to go
> into
> rehab. Just me, but I’d see it as an investment in
> all of
> your futures.
>
> There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings
> that need
> to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My
> experience
> is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and
> connect
> with the right person when certain feelings arise
> instead of
> isolating and using. I’m not talking about you
> personally
> because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it
> seems to come
> down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and
> easy to do
> when we feel good but often seemingly impossible
> when the
> feelings are actually there. You often have to get a
> lot of
> crap out the way before a former user can get the
> awareness
> to do this. Normally you gotta be in an environment
> where
> there are experienced people who can help you and
> also give
> you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that
> they do,
> that you feel safe to really show yourself, however
> you are.
>
> Personally, I never saw a turnaround like this just
> from a
> few counselling sessions or a bit of breathwork
> whatever, but
> for sure I don’t know every drug addict in the
> world. So I’ll
> just wish you well in the hands of iboga. Na nina na
> kombo,
> as they say in the Cameroun.
>
> Much love to you and stay in touch whatever the
> outcome
>
> Nick
>
>

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 6:42:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Nick, for your very wise words.  I will remember them.

Jennifer

Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

—- Original message —-
>Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jennifer
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Hi Nick! Yes, I agree that sometimes it’s like ok,
> this is why I take drugs. So, what do we do with
> this information? Hmmm… well, doesn’t really
> matter how we got here, right? It only matters how
> we get out. I suppose it might be helpful to find
> out why if it helps with understanding the best way
> to NOT get back there again though.
>
> I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of time
> away from family at this time and I certainly can’t
> put it off until it’s more convenient, when they’re
> older, etc. because somethings always going to be
> going on that makes it not a good time. I have been
> thinking a lot about what I am willing and/or able
> to do.
>
> I can afford to take a few days or so away and I can
> also commit to being in therapy, seeing a counselor,
> or going to some other after care after a few days
> away to deal with the detox. This is the only way I
> feel I can meet the needs of my family and also get
> myself straightened out. I just don’t feel like
> it’s right for my kids to suffer because of my
> mistakes.
>
> I feel certain I will go back to drugs even if I
> make it through another w/d unless I also address
> some of my issues and find new ways to cope with
> life. That’s why I am placing my hope and faith
> that Ibogaine will be able to ‘help’ me accomplish
> these goals. I am getting to the place I need to be
> to commit to staying away from drugs forever. I do
> not want to fail again. I really want my life back.
>
> Thanks so much for your thoughts and support with
> this!! 🙂
>
> Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

Well I hope things work out. I like your realistic attitude
but I’m sure it would also be amazing for your kids if you
could stay clean too, so personally I don’t think you should
put it out that it’s not fair on them for you to go into
rehab. Just me, but I’d see it as an investment in all of
your futures.

There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings that need
to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My experience
is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and connect
with the right person when certain feelings arise instead of
isolating and using. I’m not talking about you personally
because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it seems to come
down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and easy to do
when we feel good but often seemingly impossible when the
feelings are actually there. You often have to get a lot of
crap out the way before a former user can get the awareness
to do this. Normally you gotta be in an environment where
there are experienced people who can help you and also give
you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that they do,
that you feel safe to really show yourself, however you are.

Personally, I never saw a turnaround like this just from a
few counselling sessions or a bit of breathwork whatever, but
for sure I don’t know every drug addict in the world. So I’ll
just wish you well in the hands of iboga. Na nina na kombo,
as they say in the Cameroun.

Much love to you and stay in touch whatever the outcome

Nick

 

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 7:02:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill,
A lot of what you said makes a lot of sense to me.  I do believe being heard and understood could be a type of high, as I feel somewhat elated right now even thinking someone is possibly understanding me. I really appreciate you giving my situation thought and consideration.  I feel very hopeful lately that maybe I will be alright after all.  Thanks,
Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
> There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings that need
> to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My experience
> is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and connect
> with the right person when certain feelings arise instead of
> isolating and using. I’m not talking about you personally
> because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it seems to come
> down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and easy to do
> when we feel good but often seemingly impossible when the
> feelings are actually there.

This fits with some thinking I was doing about what Jennifer said
about her childhood.

I imagine that being left to cry as a baby between scheduled feedings
might train a person to “swallow” their worst feelings, such as fear,
anger, and physical discomfort, since there would be no one to share
them with. This reflex in turn might lead to the sense of isolation,
since it would prevent forming fully satisfactory bonds with people
(unless the parents or others could detect the problem and retrain the
child). Rather the child might well end up having a primary goal of
satisfying the needs of the parents as a condition of receiving love,
and the fact that love was received (although at an unfair price) may
make it seem like a healthy situation.

If this is the case, then the habit would predate language and the
ability to think, which could explain why it’s so hard to act
differently when the feelings are there – the mind would present the
“swallowing” as the correct thing to do, and if a drug helped to do
this, the drug would be the correct thing. So learning to reach out
to someone who could accept these uncomfortable feelings could be
the natural antidote. I wonder if being heard in such a situation
might even feel like a drug high,

> Normally you gotta be in an environment where
> there are experienced people who can help you and also give
> you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that they do,
> that you feel safe to really show yourself, however you are.

Sounds like excellent advice.

> Na nina na kombo, as they say in the Cameroun.

Nick, what does this mean?

Bill

 

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 7:00:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jennifer,

Is it so selfish of you to make sure your daughter has
a clean healthy mother to love her, teach her and set
an example for her to follow??? An example I often use
is flying in a plane; if the oxygen goes out they tell
you to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and NOT
on your child first (if you have one). Why, because
you are no-good trying to hold/get the mask on your
child if you yourself run out of air yourself – as in
you are no-good to your daughter if you lose yourself.
It is a paradoxical thing, you come first makes it so
you can do the very best you can for your child. It is
making sure there is more (of mommy) for your daughter
for her entire life. Put whoever before you and you
may do neither of you any good. Just making a
point/observation. FWIW, I hear you working
it/understanding, there is a shift in logic that is
needed/will happen as you get cleaner/healthier,
things like this are part of it.

I assure you, your daughter will be happier if you do
whatever it takes to get yourself clean/sober/happy,
and let nothing stand in your way. It just isn’t going
to cut it for one day, saying “well honey, the reason
I was a drug addict all my life is because I was too
busy taking care of you” – and of course breaking the
cycle of addiction would be nice (it tends to get
passed on). I know I am overstating it a bit but the
sooner you end this, the better for both of you – IMO.
Putting your daughter in the way of that (getting
clean/happy…) is not something I think you are
after, looking back on it 10-20 years from now. It
just isn’t a reason, is a feeling/fear with words
wrapped around it.

“I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of
time away from family at this time and I certainly
can’t put it off until it’s more convenient, when
they’re older, etc”

Exactly, then something has to give. If it comes to
going into in-patient treatment and that is what it
takes, that is what it takes. I suggest having 100% of
anything and everything at your disposal to heal
yourself, no limits, no things that go “But…”. See,
just doing that increases your chances, no? (not that
you have to use them all).

BTW, you can do this.

Brett
— Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

—- Original message —-
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick!  Yes, I agree that sometimes it’s like
ok,
this is why I take drugs.  So, what do we do
with
this information?  Hmmm… well, doesn’t really
matter how we got here, right?  It only matters
how
we get out.  I suppose it might be helpful to
find
out why if it helps with understanding the best
way
to NOT get back there again though.

I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of
time
away from family at this time and I certainly
can’t
put it off until it’s more convenient, when
they’re
older, etc.  because somethings always going to
be
going on that makes it not a good time.  I have
been
thinking a lot about what I am willing and/or
able
to do.

I can afford to take a few days or so away and I
can
also commit to being in therapy, seeing a
counselor,
or going to some other after care after a few
days
away to deal with the detox.  This is the only
way I
feel I can meet the needs of my family and also
get
myself straightened out.  I just don’t feel like
it’s right for my kids to suffer because of my
mistakes.

I feel certain I will go back to drugs even if I
make it through another w/d unless I also
address
some of my issues and find new ways to cope with
life.  That’s why I am placing my hope and faith
that Ibogaine will be able to ‘help’ me
accomplish
these goals.  I am getting to the place I need
to be
to commit to staying away from drugs forever.  I
do
not want to fail again.  I really want my life
back.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and support
with
this!!  🙂

Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

Well I hope things work out. I like your realistic
attitude
but I’m sure it would also be amazing for your kids
if you
could stay clean too, so personally I don’t think
you should
put it out that it’s not fair on them for you to go
into
rehab. Just me, but I’d see it as an investment in
all of
your futures.

There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings
that need
to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My
experience
is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and
connect
with the right person when certain feelings arise
instead of
isolating and using. I’m not talking about you
personally
because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it
seems to come
down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and
easy to do
when we feel good but often seemingly impossible
when the
feelings are actually there. You often have to get a
lot of
crap out the way before a former user can get the
awareness
to do this. Normally you gotta be in an environment
where
there are experienced people who can help you and
also give
you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that
they do,
that you feel safe to really show yourself, however
you are.

Personally, I never saw a turnaround like this just
from a
few counselling sessions or a bit of breathwork
whatever, but
for sure I don’t know every drug addict in the
world. So I’ll
just wish you well in the hands of iboga. Na nina na
kombo,
as they say in the Cameroun.

Much love to you and stay in touch whatever the
outcome

Nick

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 6:30:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings that need
to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My experience
is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and connect
with the right person when certain feelings arise instead of
isolating and using. I’m not talking about you personally
because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it seems to come
down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and easy to do
when we feel good but often seemingly impossible when the
feelings are actually there.

This fits with some thinking I was doing about what Jennifer said
about her childhood.

I imagine that being left to cry as a baby between scheduled feedings
might train a person to “swallow” their worst feelings, such as fear,
anger, and physical discomfort, since there would be no one to share
them with. This reflex in turn might lead to the sense of isolation,
since it would prevent forming fully satisfactory bonds with people
(unless the parents or others could detect the problem and retrain the
child). Rather the child might well end up having a primary goal of
satisfying the needs of the parents as a condition of receiving love,
and the fact that love was received (although at an unfair price) may
make it seem like a healthy situation.

If this is the case, then the habit would predate language and the
ability to think, which could explain why it’s so hard to act
differently when the feelings are there – the mind would present the
“swallowing” as the correct thing to do, and if a drug helped to do
this, the drug would be the correct thing. So learning to reach out
to someone who could accept these uncomfortable feelings could be
the natural antidote. I wonder if being heard in such a situation
might even feel like a drug high,

Normally you gotta be in an environment where
there are experienced people who can help you and also give
you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that they do,
that you feel safe to really show yourself, however you are.

Sounds like excellent advice.

Na nina na kombo, as they say in the Cameroun.

Nick, what does this mean?

Bill

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 11, 2003 at 6:18:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

An aftercare plan doesn’t have to cost a dime.

It is a commitment to changes and a new, healthy way to live which should be
discussed, supported and outlined by the Ibogaine treatment provider.

Dosing someone with ibogaine without discussion and focus on life post-ibogaine
is a dis-service to the addict being treated.

An aftercare plan could consist simply of a Healthy Diet(something that escapes
most addicts, BTW), Excercise and Lifestyle Changes. Meetings aren’t a bad idea
either, if only for the support of people going thru similar changes. The
individual can decide for themselves if the meetings help or not. All of this
doesn’t cost a thing.

Professional help like therapy is an option, and in some cases necessary and
certainly costs money, that is for sure. It depends on the individuals
resources and/or willingness to pursue their freedom on wether therapy is for
them.

Relying on will power alone is shakey ground for an addict, I am surprised you
believe so much in it.

I ask again, since you are apparently treating people on what seems a regular
basis, do you have any professional training in counseling, therapy or
psychology? Do you have a staff with such training?

Have you considered offering post-ibogaine focus/support groups for Iboga House
Alumni? Prefereably staffed by someone with professional experience in group
counseling?

~dh aka gamma

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Well, none of my patients had an afterplan. How can many of them? No
jobs, bad health, burned bridges, no money, no close family, problems,
problems.

But they are all improved in their quality of life, so its not a waste
of their or my effort. Many are still drug abuse free.

What kind of afterplan should they have? And where will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?

I dearly wish they all had loving, helping, wise counselors close at
hand but alas, mostly they have just themselves afterward. That is why I
hope iboga helps them discover their SELF and from there carry out the
will of the self.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal: Marc

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve over their own body
and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change in lefestyle until a
will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is something to what you
are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how it ruled my life (no
joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a spiritual experience
that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point that I felt my
spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new life. That
strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the time-payment plan. But I
wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of the Ibogaine
healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

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From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine
Date: September 11, 2003 at 4:51:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello A.

Personally I like taking Iboga once a year full dose and
Small dose  while giving a treatment to be able to stay awake all night.

I will not recommend giving anything to anyone if you haven’t done it
yourself,

For recreational reason I would rather use P.Cubensis .

sara

—–Original Message—–
From: ad astra [mailto:metagrrl@yahoo.com]
Sent: donderdag 11 september 2003 20:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine

I have a question for iboga/ibogaine treatment
providers.  Have you used iboga/ibogaine yourself?  If
so, how has your personal experience given you insight
into the treatment of your patients?  If not, do you
think it is ethical to provide a powerful psychoactive
drug to others when you are personally unfamiliar with
its effects?

a.

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 11, 2003 at 4:22:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not agreeing/disagreeing with anyone (how unusual),
just making a comment/observation/pseudo-opinion with
disclaimer and no warranty.

If you deal in absolutes, yes unless someone wants to
quit (drugs) ibo won’t do it, but it is often in
degrees and ibo can shift the scale. Ibo also changes
some realities and understanding, changes what is
normally possible. So if someone was basing their
existance on a particular set of
beliefs/experiences… well absolutely ibogaine can
come in and let someone see that differently and
assist in changing them to what they truely are
(kind-of/sort-of). It isn’t going to change that which
does not want to change or alter something from its
nature – it WILL help someone be who/what they are,
can help someone “grow up” or “get real” (…).

“> What kind of afterplan should they have? And where
will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?”

Well, 12 steps if you got a buck, or if not. There are
also non-12 step groups (Rational Recovery, SMART…)
there are on-line meetings, they could subscribe to
the ibogaine list(s) though a more “patient”
orientated list would be much better. Once I went to
an out-patient (45 day) treatment that was available
from the county, quite free (they SUCKED,
co-dependents ran it, but it was something). Most
counties (or city/state/federal) have some drug
treatment help that is free or sliding scale. Then
there are churches and other organizations, some
provide free or sliding scale payment plans.

SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING, almost anything (on the
to-do/healthy list) that is a plan. Go to the
GYM/walk/sunshine/air/beach/fly a kite is a plan, eat
good food is a plan, get a job is a plan… Every day
get up and get your ass out of the house or out from
under the bridge, break the pattern… is a plan. But
many addicts just don’t, nothing, “that won’t work,
this won’t”, so why bother… Often fill in the words
after “But” or “I can’t because”…  Whatever it is,
do something and if that doesn’t work or you grow past
that, do something else, and if it does work, slip it
in your list of BASIC stuff that works for you. If you
are an addict and do nothing to recover after ibo
treatment you will likely fall back into the default
pattern (the ones we are trying to change) if you
don’t replace it with another pattern of behavior.
This is one reason in my mind several treatments are
often necessary, it can be as simple as (though IMO it
is not) re-treating and giving the patient the
opportunity to make a life, get it together, it takes
time (more for some than others). Somethimes the PLAN
(from their end) does not happen till after the
treatment, they can’t see that far, can’t even see
past getting off the stuff. Then maybe start with 12
step meetings if you don’t have anything else. Don’t
like the 12 steps, then good, do them till you find
something else… but don’t sit there with nothing to
do waiting for something to come into your mind to do,
cuz I know what that will be. Keep busy, do healthy
stuff – Libraries are free BTW, read a book (recovery
maybe?), take out a free tape/CD, that is if you have
a VCR/TV/HOME… Libraries also generally have free
access to the internet and bulletin boards/information
that may be of help. ALSO, free papers, in NYC (I
think) the Village Voice is still free but there are
local papers with information, often free/cheap help
or classes are available.

And if you can do a real plan, do it. I have seen
people set-up ibo treatment then follow it up with
in-patient/out-patient.

BTW, Addicts are not always from missing same sex
parents… abusive homes or wherever, there is just no
such qualifications that universally apply. For
instance, almost every doctor/nurse/pharmacist I know
of that got addicted does not fit that profile. They
often came from good homes and if they didn’t (poor
home/family/daddy figure), by the time they became
doctors/nurses/pharmacists… they are more often more
over it and less of a risk than someone who came from
a good environment. There are a whole lot of
stock-brokers (lawyers/whoever) who got rich, got
coke, got crack and wound up down and out in NYC.
There are a variety of reasons, not everyone fits any
set pattern anything like all of the time or even most
of the time.
Where I came from, I saw lots of people just get into
drugs cause the park was directly across the street
from where I grew up. Yes the numbers no doubt lean in
several directions, heredity, environment, exposure,
family, lack of DADDY/MOMMY, BAD DADDY/MOMMY… and I
know addicts/alcoholics/single/broken home parents who
managed to recover as well as bring up healthy
non-addict children.

All IMVHO at the moment.

Brett

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Well, none of my patients had an afterplan. How can
many of them? No
jobs, bad health, burned bridges, no money, no close
family, problems,
problems.

But they are all improved in their quality of life,
so its not a waste
of their or my effort. Many are still drug abuse
free.

What kind of afterplan should they have? And where
will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?

I dearly wish they all had loving, helping, wise
counselors close at
hand but alas, mostly they have just themselves
afterward. That is why I
hope iboga helps them discover their SELF and from
there carry out the
will of the self.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than
normal: Marc

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve
over their own body
and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change
in lefestyle until a
will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is
something to what you
are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how
it ruled my life (no
joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a
spiritual experience
that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point
that I felt my
spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new
life. That
strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the
time-payment plan. But I
wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than
that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of
the Ibogaine
healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare
plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site
design software
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From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 4:56:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick!  Yes, I agree that sometimes it’s like ok,
this is why I take drugs.  So, what do we do with
this information?  Hmmm… well, doesn’t really
matter how we got here, right?  It only matters how
we get out.  I suppose it might be helpful to find
out why if it helps with understanding the best way
to NOT get back there again though.

I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of time
away from family at this time and I certainly can’t
put it off until it’s more convenient, when they’re
older, etc.  because somethings always going to be
going on that makes it not a good time.  I have been
thinking a lot about what I am willing and/or able
to do.

I can afford to take a few days or so away and I can
also commit to being in therapy, seeing a counselor,
or going to some other after care after a few days
away to deal with the detox.  This is the only way I
feel I can meet the needs of my family and also get
myself straightened out.  I just don’t feel like
it’s right for my kids to suffer because of my
mistakes.

I feel certain I will go back to drugs even if I
make it through another w/d unless I also address
some of my issues and find new ways to cope with
life.  That’s why I am placing my hope and faith
that Ibogaine will be able to ‘help’ me accomplish
these goals.  I am getting to the place I need to be
to commit to staying away from drugs forever.  I do
not want to fail again.  I really want my life back.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and support with
this!!  🙂

Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

Well I hope things work out. I like your realistic attitude
but I’m sure it would also be amazing for your kids if you
could stay clean too, so personally I don’t think you should
put it out that it’s not fair on them for you to go into
rehab. Just me, but I’d see it as an investment in all of
your futures.

There are usually a lot of behavioural relearnings that need
to go on to stay clean, post ibo or otherwise. My experience
is that someone needs to learn how to reach out and connect
with the right person when certain feelings arise instead of
isolating and using. I’m not talking about you personally
because I don’t know you so well, but mostly it seems to come
down to this with drug users. It’s easy to say and easy to do
when we feel good but often seemingly impossible when the
feelings are actually there. You often have to get a lot of
crap out the way before a former user can get the awareness
to do this. Normally you gotta be in an environment where
there are experienced people who can help you and also give
you love; who accept you and allow you to feel that they do,
that you feel safe to really show yourself, however you are.

Personally, I never saw a turnaround like this just from a
few counselling sessions or a bit of breathwork whatever, but
for sure I don’t know every drug addict in the world. So I’ll
just wish you well in the hands of iboga. Na nina na kombo,
as they say in the Cameroun.

Much love to you and stay in touch whatever the outcome

Nick

From: Skuff <amsterdamdelight@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine – Mark Chilcott.
Date: September 11, 2003 at 3:00:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, I think it is very ethical because it is helping people to see the error of the way they have been spending their lives.
Yours,
Mark Chilcott.

ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a question for iboga/ibogaine treatment
providers. Have you used iboga/ibogaine yourself? If
so, how has your personal experience given you insight
into the treatment of your patients? If not, do you
think it is ethical to provide a powerful psychoactive
drug to others when you are personally unfamiliar with
its effects?

a.

__________________________________
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From: ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine through the seasons
Date: September 11, 2003 at 2:59:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A general question, particularly for people who have
used iboga/ibogaine at different times of the year.
Do you find that the season you take it has any effect
on the experience, or the aftereffects of the
experience.  For example, would taking it in the
springtime – a time of new growth, new life – be
different than taking it in the fall, when everything
is dying?

a.

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From: ad astra <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] treatment providers on ibogaine
Date: September 11, 2003 at 2:56:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a question for iboga/ibogaine treatment
providers.  Have you used iboga/ibogaine yourself?  If
so, how has your personal experience given you insight
into the treatment of your patients?  If not, do you
think it is ethical to provide a powerful psychoactive
drug to others when you are personally unfamiliar with
its effects?

a.

__________________________________
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http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 2:47:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick!  Yes, I agree that sometimes it’s like ok, this is why I take drugs.  So, what do we do with this information?  Hmmm… well, doesn’t really matter how we got here, right?  It only matters how we get out.  I suppose it might be helpful to find out why if it helps with understanding the best way to NOT get back there again though.

I don’t feel able to take any long stretch of time away from family at this time and I certainly can’t put it off until it’s more convenient, when they’re older, etc.  because somethings always going to be going on that makes it not a good time.  I have been thinking a lot about what I am willing and/or able to do.

I can afford to take a few days or so away and I can also commit to being in therapy, seeing a counselor, or going to some other after care after a few days away to deal with the detox.  This is the only way I feel I can meet the needs of my family and also get myself straightened out.  I just don’t feel like it’s right for my kids to suffer because of my mistakes.

I feel certain I will go back to drugs even if I make it through another w/d unless I also address some of my issues and find new ways to cope with life.  That’s why I am placing my hope and faith that Ibogaine will be able to ‘help’ me accomplish these goals.  I am getting to the place I need to be to commit to staying away from drugs forever.  I do not want to fail again.  I really want my life back.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and support with this!!  🙂

Jennifer

Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

—- Original message —-
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jennifer
>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> She was in labor for 36 hours. I attachment parent
> my own almost 2 year old daughter. I nursed,
> co-sleep more than half the night, I almost never
> leave her, carry her a lot, am very attentive to her
> needs, never leave her alone to cry, etc. We’re very
> close and this is one HUGE reason I cannot leave
> (abandon) her and go off to re-hab for any length of
> time to heal.

Hi Jennifer,

Many thanks for your posts and for being so open. About WHY
people take drugs, at the end of the day no one will ever
really know. It’s a vast mindfuck trying to figure it out.
Childhood trauma, astral patterns, astrology, whatever, all
the roads ultimately lead nowhere. What is important is
deciding what the next step is to you getting off. And I cut
into your post at this point because I can’t help feeling
that it’s here that you’re going to have to look.

Rehab in a decent centre is by far the most realistic option
for long term being clean, so I’d say you need to start
thinking about this realistically and how you can make this
work with your need to stay close to your child. If you make
it into a “I CAN’T do this” I don’t think, personally, it’s
going to help. Better to start looking HOW it could be
possible.

Ibogaine’s a great wildcard to try, but you need to have the
attitude that you’ll do anything to stay clean. With this you
will get off even if in the end you don’t actually need to do
so much.

Hope this helps

Nick

I’ve always been able to stay clean
> during pregnancy, but in between pregnancies and a
> better part of my teen and adult life (i’m 31 now) I
> have fought being on one substance or the other.
> Only recently have I become hung up here in my first
> physical addiction which is the toughest one yet.
> I’ve always been able to get away from it, at least
> temporarily, until now.
> I know traditional therapy says, it’s more important
> for me to take care of my addiction first because
> I’m not being the best parent I can be, blah
> blah…However, I don’t feel like abandoning my
> family for ‘help’ is any less selfish and damaging
> than quietly taking my pills. I have a nice home, a
> stable life and lots of love around me. I am highly
> functional addict. I have no reason to feel so sad
> inside. No excuse to be like this. But, it’s so
> hard to quit, because I’m not having any
> adverse effects (except in my own mind telling me
> what a piece of shit I am) Is it possible to heal
> without a rehab? I’ve never been comfortable
> with mainstream treatments for addiction. This is
> why Ibogaine sounds so attractive to me. It seems
> to really get to the root of your problems and help
> to heal, while keeping most of the w/d symptoms
> away. I want to explore my past, my mind and kno! w
> why I do the things I do and learn how to change my
> destructive patterns. My problems with Ibogaine is
> that I am scared and I’m in the US and cannot afford
> money or time wise to be away for long. I need to
> not risk my life because I have too much at stake.
>
> I am familiar with John Bowlby’s attachment theory
> and also many other studies/articles that have
> discussed attachment at length. I will go read the
> link you sent now. Thank you. I suppose I feel very
> strongly and instictively that this is the right way
> to parent. It just feels right to me and to my
> baby, I am certain!! 🙂
>
> My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby
> Cry-it-Out or sleep training. Are you familiar with
> a particular article (I wish I could find the link)
> that talks about what happens to an infant left
> alone in a crib to cry? It’s very disturbing. I
> wonder if this could be part of my problem. During
> the first year, I hadn’t thought of it until now,
> but I’m CERTAIN I was left in my crib to cry myself
> to sleep or cry if 4 hours hadn’t passed and it
> wasn’t my ‘feeding’ time. A baby’s first year is
> the time they develop trust and intimacy and if I
> couldn’t count on my parents then, I suppose this
> could have scarred me and unconciously still hurt me
> today. I have more issues that really seem to make
> sense in relation to this ‘hurt’ I endured as an
> infant.
>
> I know people thought it was the right way to do
> things back then, but I really feel this is a form
> of child abuse, well neglect maybe. Either way,
> obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s
> too late to go back and change things now. How can
> I know if this is why I’ve always felt alone,
> needy and insecure? And what can I do to make it go
> away? How can I help myself heal my addictions with
> this knowledge? I don’t know…
>
> Anyway, thanks for taking time to try to figure
> things out with me…sorry I got so long and kind of
> off track with this, I guess I had more to say than
> I thought!! lol
>
> Jennifer
> Bill Ross wrote:
>
> Jennifer,
>
> > My mother has said she never smoked or drank
> while pregnant with me,
> > which I believe because she’s never been a
> smoker and didn’t drink
> > much until the last few years, now she’s a big
> time Friday night
> > drinker. She did have a long labor with me…
>
> How long?
>
> > … But, still, nothing so awful and nothing
> that doesn’t happen to
> > many kids who don’t turn to drugs! I do remember
> even as a child
> > feeling alone very often though.
>
> Feeling alone may reflect on your relationship to
> your parents. My
> understanding is that if the parental bond is
> strong, it protects
> one from such feelings. You may want to read about
> Attachment Theory,
> e.g. a search on Google yields
>
> http://www.personalityresearch.org/attachment.html
>
> Once I tried reading the latest bible of the
> field, something like
> Handbook of Attachment Theory – I recommend
> skipping this, and suspect
> that the writings of the originator, John Bowlby,
> are more readable.
>
> Bill Ross
>
> ————————————————
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site
> design software

 

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From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 1:30:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

She was in labor for 36 hours.  I attachment parent
my own almost 2 year old daughter.   I nursed,
co-sleep more than half the night, I almost never
leave her, carry her a lot, am very attentive to her
needs, never leave her alone to cry, etc. We’re very
close and this is one HUGE reason I cannot leave
(abandon) her and go off to re-hab for any length of
time to heal.

Hi Jennifer,

Many thanks for your posts and for being so open. About WHY
people take drugs, at the end of the day no one will ever
really know. It’s a vast mindfuck trying to figure it out.
Childhood trauma, astral patterns, astrology, whatever, all
the roads ultimately lead nowhere. What is important is
deciding what the next step is to you getting off. And I cut
into your post at this point because I can’t help feeling
that it’s here that you’re going to have to look.

Rehab in a decent centre is by far the most realistic option
for long term being clean, so I’d say you need to start
thinking about this realistically and how you can make this
work with your need to stay close to your child. If you make
it into a “I CAN’T do this” I don’t think, personally, it’s
going to help. Better to start looking HOW it could be
possible.

Ibogaine’s a great wildcard to try, but you need to have the
attitude that you’ll do anything to stay clean. With this you
will get off even if in the end you don’t actually need to do
so much.

Hope this helps

Nick

I’ve always been able to stay clean
during pregnancy, but in between pregnancies and a
better part of my teen and adult life (i’m 31 now) I
have fought being on one substance or the other.
Only recently have I become hung up here in my first
physical addiction which is the toughest one yet.
I’ve always been able to get away from it, at least
temporarily, until now.
I know traditional therapy says, it’s more important
for me to take care of my addiction first because
I’m not being the best parent I can be, blah
blah…However, I don’t feel like abandoning my
family for ‘help’ is any less selfish and damaging
than quietly taking my pills.  I have a nice home, a
stable life and lots of love around me.  I am highly
functional addict.  I have no reason to feel so sad
inside.  No excuse to be like this. But, it’s so
hard to quit, because I’m not having any
adverse effects (except in my own mind telling me
what a piece of shit I am)  Is it possible to heal
without a rehab? I’ve never been comfortable
with mainstream treatments for addiction. This is
why Ibogaine sounds so attractive to me.  It seems
to really get to the root of your problems and help
to heal, while keeping most of the w/d symptoms
away.  I want to explore my past, my mind and kno! w
why I do the things I do and learn how to change my
destructive patterns.  My  problems with Ibogaine is
that I am scared and I’m in the US and cannot afford
money or time wise to be away for long.  I need to
not risk my life because I have too much at stake.

I am familiar with John Bowlby’s attachment theory
and also many other studies/articles that have
discussed attachment at length. I will go read the
link you sent now. Thank you. I suppose I feel very
strongly and instictively that this is the right way
to parent.  It just feels right to me and to my
baby, I am certain!!  🙂

My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby
Cry-it-Out or sleep training.  Are you familiar with
a particular article (I wish I could find the link)
that talks about what happens to an infant left
alone in a crib to cry?  It’s very disturbing.  I
wonder if this could be part of my problem.  During
the first year, I hadn’t thought of it until now,
but I’m CERTAIN I was left in my crib to cry myself
to sleep or cry if 4 hours hadn’t passed and it
wasn’t my ‘feeding’ time.  A baby’s first year is
the time they develop trust and intimacy and if I
couldn’t count on my parents then, I suppose this
could have scarred me and unconciously still hurt me
today.  I have more issues that really seem to make
sense in relation to this ‘hurt’ I endured as an
infant.

I know people thought it was the right way to do
things back then, but I really feel this is a form
of child abuse, well neglect maybe.  Either way,
obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s
too late to go back and change things now.   How can
I know if this is why I’ve always felt alone,
needy and insecure?  And what can I do to make it go
away?  How can I help myself heal my addictions with
this knowledge?  I don’t know…

Anyway, thanks for taking time to try to figure
things out with me…sorry I got so long and kind of
off track with this, I guess I had more to say than
I thought!! lol

Jennifer
Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:

Jennifer,

My mother has said she never smoked or drank
while pregnant with me,
which I believe because she’s never been a
smoker and didn’t drink
much until the last few years, now she’s a big
time Friday night
drinker. She did have a long labor with me…

How long?

… But, still, nothing so awful and nothing
that doesn’t happen to
many kids who don’t turn to drugs! I do remember
even as a child
feeling alone very often though.

Feeling alone may reflect on your relationship to
your parents. My
understanding is that if the parental bond is
strong, it protects
one from such feelings. You may want to read about
Attachment Theory,
e.g. a search on Google yields

http://www.personalityresearch.org/attachment.html

Once I tried reading the latest bible of the
field, something like
Handbook of Attachment Theory – I recommend
skipping this, and suspect
that the writings of the originator, John Bowlby,
are more readable.

Bill Ross

————————————————

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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site
design software

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Afterplan
Date: September 11, 2003 at 3:29:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, none of my patients had an afterplan. How can many of them? No
jobs, bad health, burned bridges, no money, no close family, problems,
problems.

But they are all improved in their quality of life, so its not a waste
of their or my effort. Many are still drug abuse free.

What kind of afterplan should they have? And where will they get this
help? And how will they pay for it?

I dearly wish they all had loving, helping, wise counselors close at
hand but alas, mostly they have just themselves afterward. That is why I
hope iboga helps them discover their SELF and from there carry out the
will of the self.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:48 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal: Marc

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve over their own body
and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change in lefestyle until a
will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is something to what you
are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how it ruled my life (no
joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a spiritual experience
that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point that I felt my
spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new life. That
strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the time-payment plan. But I
wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of the Ibogaine
healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

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From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Jennifer: Describe the pain
Date: September 11, 2003 at 3:36:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jennifer, Could you describe the kinds of things that create “pain” that requires the opiate self-medication? Are these recurrent feelings? Memories? Relationship based? I am interested in the source of your imbalance. I believe iboga would be helpful and positive an experience for you.

Marc Emery

—–Original Message—–
From: Jennifer [mailto:scrakalak@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:07 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Thanks Marc, I hope to find out why.  It’s always bothered me that I’ve always felt this way, alone, abandoned, unwanted, insecure, etc.  because I seemed to have had an ‘ideal’ childhood and things are basically good in my life.  I also think that if I could resolve my feelings I could live a life more at peace without constantly trying to self-medicate the pain away. I want to improve my relationships and need to control.  I look forward to working this out in the future.  I’m hoping for the Spring so I’ll have time to save up some $$$ and get everything set up, plane tickets, the testing I need, sitters for my kids, etc.
Jennifer
Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Jennifer, The truth is in here somewhere:

>>>I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though<<<

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Bill,
My mother has said she never smoked or drank while pregnant with me, which I believe because she’s never been a smoker and didn’t drink much until the last few years, now she’s a big time Friday night drinker.  She did have a long labor with me…
I wasn’t separated ever from my parents until I moved about at 17, except for a very occasional weekend.  My mother did go to work when I was seven years old, after staying home with me.  I don’t remember feeling particularly traumatized about it though.  I do remember seeing some classroom mom’s (first grade helpers) that were very involved and had a twinge of jealously there, wishing my Mom were like that.  So, maybe I do hold some resentment over her leaving me??  But, still, nothing so awful and nothing that doesn’t happen to many kids who don’t turn to drugs!  I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
> I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents ..
> Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still 
> always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue 
> to try to fill up with pills. 

Any indication of birth trauma? Mother drinking or smoking when
pregnant? Separation from parents in 1st year of life?

Bill Ross

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 6:44:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Allison!

Jennifer

Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Look after yourself Jennifer and best of luck for you & family….  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:17:28 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Thanks Bill, the off trackness may be useful after all, what I read last night (in the link the last) describing the babyhood experience and her feelings, really hit home for me.  It brought me to tears actually.  I suppose this is why I feel so strongly about attachment with my daughter if I was disconnected as an infant.  I’m not trying to blame my addiction on my hurts in the past, but can it be helpful in healing to realize why you feel and act the way you do?  I don’t know.  I know that the feelings and thoughts in that paper sounded exactly like me.  So much that it hurt to read it.

If my daughter were in my situation or any of my children, I would want them to get help at any cost. I would want them to be whole.  I would not be very helpful offering suggestions on how to help at this stage though because I am unable to help myself, much less offer advise to anyone else.  So, yes, that statement is more helpful and very eye opening for me.  I suppose even though I”m doing all the ‘right’ things I’m still not a ‘whole’ parent.

I would say that her comment, first suprised me and then made me feel as if my feelings were not important. (A common theme in my life)  I also felt the need to justify or explain (another common theme) to get everyone to ‘understand’ and accept me and my actions.

Anyway, thanks again for our thought provoking conversations.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Jennifer,

> The post also implied I may be making my daughter unable to do
> things or think for herself by my parenting,

That wasn’t intended. You may want to read what I wrote more carefully.
Putting it another way, what would you want your daughter to do if she
found herself in your situation?

> I suppose I thought it was an intelligent and thought provoking
> conversation that seemed to naturally steer in the direction of
> how people are parented when Bill and I started discussing attachment.

It was.. but is it helping you find an answer? One for your heart?

> I feel like I’ve broken a rule or done something wrong

I think you just made Sandra lose patience. That could be useful
to think about, since she sounds like a practical person for
helping people. Also it could be useful to look at how her rejection
made you feel.

Bill

 

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____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

 

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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 11, 2003 at 5:49:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Look after yourself Jennifer and best of luck for you & family….  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:17:28 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Thanks Bill, the off trackness may be useful after all, what I read last night (in the link the last) describing the babyhood experience and her feelings, really hit home for me.  It brought me to tears actually.  I suppose this is why I feel so strongly about attachment with my daughter if I was disconnected as an infant.  I’m not trying to blame my addiction on my hurts in the past, but can it be helpful in healing to realize why you feel and act the way you do?  I don’t know.  I know that the feelings and thoughts in that paper sounded exactly like me.  So much that it hurt to read it.

If my daughter were in my situation or any of my children, I would want them to get help at any cost. I would want them to be whole.  I would not be very helpful offering suggestions on how to help at this stage though because I am unable to help myself, much less offer advise to anyone else.  So, yes, that statement is more helpful and very eye opening for me.  I suppose even though I”m doing all the ‘right’ things I’m still not a ‘whole’ parent.

I would say that her comment, first suprised me and then made me feel as if my feelings were not important. (A common theme in my life)  I also felt the need to justify or explain (another common theme) to get everyone to ‘understand’ and accept me and my actions.

Anyway, thanks again for our thought provoking conversations.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Jennifer,

> The post also implied I may be making my daughter unable to do
> things or think for herself by my parenting,

That wasn’t intended. You may want to read what I wrote more carefully.
Putting it another way, what would you want your daughter to do if she
found herself in your situation?

> I suppose I thought it was an intelligent and thought provoking
> conversation that seemed to naturally steer in the direction of
> how people are parented when Bill and I started discussing attachment.

It was.. but is it helping you find an answer? One for your heart?

> I feel like I’ve broken a rule or done something wrong

I think you just made Sandra lose patience. That could be useful
to think about, since she sounds like a practical person for
helping people. Also it could be useful to look at how her rejection
made you feel.

Bill

 

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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm
Date: September 10, 2003 at 5:08:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 05:02:54PM -0400], [Tbgelfling@aol.com] wrote:

| > I read this story on the register today.
| >
| > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/32292.html
| >
| > Then when doing my usual every two or three month search for things
| > ibogaine and mindvox related. I got this.
| >
| > http://www.kiblix.org/program-eng.php
| >
| > Kiblix 2003 November 13, 14, 15. Maribor Slovenia
| >
| > Lecturer: Patrick K. Kroupa (USA)
| > Subject: Encryption Tools and Strategies on *nix-based Systems

< … Etc … >

That’s highly fascinating and all.  And, I’m very happy that you took the
opportunity to pull it out of last month, and land it in Right Now.

Your point wuz…?

Patrick

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm
Date: September 10, 2003 at 5:02:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/19/2003 7:14:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:

I read this story on the register today.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/32292.html

Then when doing my usual every two or three month search for things
ibogaine and mindvox related. I got this.

http://www.kiblix.org/program-eng.php

Kiblix 2003 November 13, 14, 15. Maribor Slovenia

Lecturer: Patrick K. Kroupa (USA)
Subject: Encryption Tools and Strategies on *nix-based Systems

Unless there is another Patrick K. Kroupa, then there is a lot of
interesting material which nobody ever mentions on the lists 😉 You
aren’t listed as a speaker at any hacker conference since 1992 when you
did Computers Freedom Privacy I, Hackercon and Summercon all in the
same year. 10 years later the first instance I can find of you online
giving a talk at a conference that is not drug related is talking about
cryptographic filesystems at a unix conference in Slovenia. Hmmmm.

And this, is even weirder. The government of Slovenia is welcoming you
to their country? Do they know who you are? 😉

http://mid.gov.si/mid/mid.nsf/f1?OpenFrameSet&Frame=main&Src=/mid/mid.nsf/0/6E82C550D575851DC1256D78002DD59C?OpenDocument

I don’t know what any of this means but it’s very weird. So I put it on
the weirdest list I’ve ever read. Enjoy! 🙂

You’re going to Slovenia to talk about encryption at a Linux festival
when you have said how much you hate Linux and love BSD maybe 100000
times. Hmmmm.

.:vector:.

Slovenian hacker found shot dead
By John Leyden
Posted: 12/08/2003 at 12:21 GMT

A Slovenian hacker who ran into legal conflict with one of the
country’s leading banks over an alleged security weakness was found
dead last week.

Police believe Robert Skulj, 28, killed himself with a shot to the head
from a gun found at the scene. Skulj’s body was found in his locked
apartment in the city of Trzic last Friday.

Last year, Skulj claimed he had found a serious security hole in an
electronic business system called Klik used by Nova Ljubljanska Banka
(NLB), a bank in Slovenia.

According to local reports, he entered into negotiation with NLB to
sell a Trojan horse that exploited the flaw he had discovered – along
with a security fix – to the bank for €500,000 ($568,050).

NLB treated the approach as blackmail and brought charges against him
last October. Slovenian police arrested Skulj and confiscated the
technology he was offering to sell to the bank.

Skulj was subsequently acquitted of any fraud by the Slovenian courts.

He then sued the bank and the state of Slovenia for 200 million
Slovenian Tolar (€850,000) for wrongful prosecution and the
confiscation of his Trojan code.

But before the case could be heard, Skulj apparently took his own life.

His exact motives remain unclear but it is believed he was unable to
cope with the stress of the court case brought against him and his own
the follow-up action.

THIS IS NUTS
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From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] reason for using drugs.
Date: September 10, 2003 at 5:01:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As we all see there is a big drug market out there,
One day it comes on someone’s path for what ever reason and they feel like trying it.

Only some people like it a lot and that makes them want to use again and again, it goes out of control
And then it become a problem to the one who wants to stop or doesn’t have the money for it, if the dealer is out of town or the police is behind us.

I have also tried chasing the dragon, but every time I got so sick I couldn’t feel what the fun in doing it .
My drugs of choice are always begin with the letter c,

Coffee   cannabis, chocolate,  Cream cheese cake with strawberries Coke.
Because I’m not addicted to those drugs I don’t get sick not doing them , it doesn’t go out of control yet, but with some people it does.

They have coffee machine at work and they can drink 20cups of coffee per day, or they sniff 5 grams a day or they sit at the coffee shop all day and they don’t get out until closing time,
Other people eat 2 kg of chocolate per week, cream cake is just one of the things they must have daily with the afternoon tea.

What back round do we have ? we were born in a world were consuming is the education we get from birth, Big industries.

‘’I WANT”  is small when we are babies and all we can do is cry until we get it , Í WANT “is growing  learning to manipulate until getting,

The more we get the more we like to have that’s the conditioning of the mind, you give one finger and they take the whole hand.
The more we want the more money we spend, the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer works harder and pay more taxes,

During Iboga “ want”is gone to sleep it stays with just a sip of water.later is  very different with everyone I treated, some people are nice and easy to be with and some are not.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick is it true?
Date: September 10, 2003 at 4:25:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/10/03 8:06:02 PM, digital@phantom.com writes:

On [Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 11:51:46AM -0400], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:

| Patrick,
|
| Is it true that the web page below is used as a training page for ibogaine

| providers?
|
| http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/1996-10-21/index.html
|
| It is dead obvious it is used in the methadone industry.

Howard,

Sadly, it appears to be relatively accurate.

But that’s old sKool.  So much room for improvement.

The New Regime will look a lot more like this:

http://www.marcusgray.com/fetish/polish.htm

I posit a dramatic improvement in treatment outcomes.

Patrick

Dr. Hunter, a third opinion?

Yes,

I’d like to get Dr. Hunter’s opinion also.  I returned to the original url I
sent and found a “next” button, eventually coming to
http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/1996-12-09/index.html

I do think we need a medical opinion.  Concerning the web page you indicated
above,  http://www.marcusgray.com/fetish/polish.htm, I think it may indicate
advantages over the cavity search in my first web page suggestion but, I can
determine no accurate conclusion based on the available data.  Possibly, we can
take this up during the ibogaine roundtable at the drug policy alliance
conference, http://www.ibogaine.org/dpa.html

Howard

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick is it true?
Date: September 10, 2003 at 3:50:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 11:51:46AM -0400], [HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:

| Patrick,
|
| Is it true that the web page below is used as a training page for ibogaine
| providers?
|
| http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/1996-10-21/index.html
|
| It is dead obvious it is used in the methadone industry.

Howard,

Sadly, it appears to be relatively accurate.

But that’s old sKool.  So much room for improvement.

The New Regime will look a lot more like this:

http://www.marcusgray.com/fetish/polish.htm

I posit a dramatic improvement in treatment outcomes.

Patrick

Dr. Hunter, a third opinion?

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 2:54:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
This is not my (limited to 28 patients, 43 dosings) experience,

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction, and are not solely
based on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents<<<

I have not found many other factors.
Marc

I believe you have found a bubble.

Also, I am curious, are you a trained counselor or psychologist?

~gamma

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal: Marc
Date: September 10, 2003 at 2:47:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve over their own body and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change in lefestyle until a will
is found in oneself.

I’m not entirely in agreement, although there is something to what you are
saying. For me, it was the insight on FEAR and how it ruled my life (no joke in
this fear based society). Add to that one hell of a spiritual experience that
basically blind-sided me somewhere around the point that I felt my spirit leave
my physical body, and I had the beginings of a new life. That strengthened my
will to live, and not commit suicide on the time-payment plan. But I wouldn’t
put all my eggs in the “will” basket. It’s more than that.

The exit plan is probably the most important part of the Ibogaine healing
experience. Treating an addict without a aftercare plan is a waste of
everyone’s time.

~gamma

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From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: [ibogaine] sicker then sick kick sicker than some norml
Date: September 10, 2003 at 2:11:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the weak must get strong regardless how i am doing.  i couldn’t have gotten this far without you Marc, thank you a million times thank you.  Can you tell me how much my dose was?  Want to make sure i’m giving correct info when writting letters etc.  Hope you are doing well.

8. The use of a multi-dose regimen of ibogaine, over time, particularly for methadone, is in keeping with literature in the field (Kosten and Kleber, Am J Drug Alcohol Abuse 1984;10(2):249-66) indicating physical withdrawal signs to methadone may be precipitatated as long as 14 days after the administration of methadone by a narcotic antagonist drug such as naltrexone.

Included herewith, is a report of a dose regimen used to treat a patient who had been receiving 300 mg of methadone per day, the highest dose of methadone dependence yet treated with ibogaine says one provider.

We have recently used the following regimen to clear a methadone dependent person who was taking 300 mg of methadone per day.

At 52 hours after the patient’s last 300 mg. methadone dose, we gave him 5,200 mg Indra extract.

Over the next 72 hours, the patient has no physical withdrawl as per usual (in other words, no diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, running nose, pounding headache) but felt miserable.

72 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg Ibogaine Hydrochloride.

96 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibogaine hydrochloride.

120 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 3,800 mg. Indra extract.

168 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI.

192 hours after the first dose of Indra extract, we gave him 100 mg. Ibo HCI.

By his 11th day here (12 days from his last 300 mg. methadone dose), he was bright, sharp, lucid, no slurring, no signs of any methadone, no withdrawal or craving or discomfort of any kind. Patient said “I like the way I’m thinking now.”

Patient ate little in the 12 days. Lost 25 pounds. Looks robust, healthy skin. “On methadone, I gained 110 pounds” he commented”. The ibogaine is returning him to his regular body weight I feel.

—–Original Message—–
From: Marc Scott Emery [mailto:marc@cannabisculture.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003, 10:21 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

And how are you doing a month after iboga, Jason?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

I would just like to make clear that even though my bio-father wasn’t
around when i was a child, i do not consider that in any way a reason for my
poor choices.  I would consider mis-information the main cause of my decent
into worse drugs.  The anti-drug special interest simply don’t have the
money to not resort to scare tacticts.  12 step groups are guilty of this
too.  I was in NA for 3 years, sponsored people and all that and of course
thought i was well informed.  Drugs are not the same and they should be
treated seperatly.  I just don’t like to see people posting incorrect
reasons for how and why I became addicted to opioids.  I consider myself,
and always have, very lucky for my family situation because i was able to
have 3 dads and 3 moms (counting step parants) and i feel i was able to
learn allot more then i would have with only two.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003, 9:28 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

In a message dated 9/7/03 6:41:49 PM, marc@cannabisculture.com writes:

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of “childhood traumas
relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a statistical way.  I
might
suggest that in your screening process you intake some patients who had
quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two groups.

Howard

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:45:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And how are you doing a month after iboga, Jason?

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

I would just like to make clear that even though my bio-father wasn’t
around when i was a child, i do not consider that in any way a reason for my
poor choices.  I would consider mis-information the main cause of my decent
into worse drugs.  The anti-drug special interest simply don’t have the
money to not resort to scare tacticts.  12 step groups are guilty of this
too.  I was in NA for 3 years, sponsored people and all that and of course
thought i was well informed.  Drugs are not the same and they should be
treated seperatly.  I just don’t like to see people posting incorrect
reasons for how and why I became addicted to opioids.  I consider myself,
and always have, very lucky for my family situation because i was able to
have 3 dads and 3 moms (counting step parants) and i feel i was able to
learn allot more then i would have with only two.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003, 9:28 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

In a message dated 9/7/03 6:41:49 PM, marc@cannabisculture.com writes:

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of “childhood traumas
relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a statistical way.  I
might
suggest that in your screening process you intake some patients who had
quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two groups.

Howard

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 1:09:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mostly I’m just scared of going to an unfamiliar place and placing my trust in someone I don’t really know while in such a vulnerable state.  I’m not afraid of the truth or the actual experience as much anymore though.  I’m also afraid it won’t work and I’ll be right back where I started.  But, I’m trying to work on this.  I am learning there is no ‘easy’ way out, even though I wish there were.

Jennifer

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
There is nothing scary about iboga/ibogaine insofar as being something that will harm you or change you negatively.

There are times during the iboga experience where you may have intense and apocalyptic visualizations or feelings, and these may be ‘frightening’ but pose no harm to you.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

I wonder about myself also Marc.  I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents and two siblings.  Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue to try to fill up with pills.  I am hoping to try Ibogaine in a clinical setting in the Spring to help with the physical w/d and also to find out why I feel this way and how I can stay off for good, but I must it admit, being unfamiliar with Ibogaine, scares me!!!

Jennifer

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Allison,

The balanced childhood with two loving, compassionate biological parents provides confidence, stability, and warm environment where a child grows up confident of their self, their future.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with without serious crutches.

I believe the number of drug addicted individuals who had the benefit of two loving, biologically connected (to the child) parents who were present and non-violent is extremely rare.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you lack the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the missing link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the explantion in your case.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 1:06:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Marc, I hope to find out why.  It’s always bothered me that I’ve always felt this way, alone, abandoned, unwanted, insecure, etc.  because I seemed to have had an ‘ideal’ childhood and things are basically good in my life.  I also think that if I could resolve my feelings I could live a life more at peace without constantly trying to self-medicate the pain away. I want to improve my relationships and need to control.  I look forward to working this out in the future.  I’m hoping for the Spring so I’ll have time to save up some $$$ and get everything set up, plane tickets, the testing I need, sitters for my kids, etc.
Jennifer

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Jennifer, The truth is in here somewhere:

>>>I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though<<<

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Bill,
My mother has said she never smoked or drank while pregnant with me, which I believe because she’s never been a smoker and didn’t drink much until the last few years, now she’s a big time Friday night drinker.  She did have a long labor with me…
I wasn’t separated ever from my parents until I moved about at 17, except for a very occasional weekend.  My mother did go to work when I was seven years old, after staying home with me.  I don’t remember feeling particularly traumatized about it though.  I do remember seeing some classroom mom’s (first grade helpers) that were very involved and had a twinge of jealously there, wishing my Mom were like that.  So, maybe I do hold some resentment over her leaving me??  But, still, nothing so awful and nothing that doesn’t happen to many kids who don’t turn to drugs!  I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
> I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents ..
> Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still
> always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue
> to try to fill up with pills.

Any indication of birth trauma? Mother drinking or smoking when
pregnant? Separation from parents in 1st year of life?

Bill Ross

 

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From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:40:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Most of our patients are 30 – 50 years old, many with children of their own.
Most are middle class who have had full time jobs but whose
addictions/prohibition created problems for them with their relationships,
health, job. Only about eight would be considered penniless/poor.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Hi I wanted to say that unlike some on this list I
don’t like to argue with people and I’m not that great
with writing so I can’t write some humongous message
that includes everything in it like you, Patrick,
Gamma and some others on this list are good at.

I also wanted to say that I think what you’re doing to
help people with Iboga Therapy house is a great thing
and I don’t in any way mean to insult you personally
or start a fight.

A lot of what you say about heroin addicts is very
unkind and ignorant. I do not think you’re a dumb
person and I’m sure you’re learning as you go along
and treat more people with ibogaine and I know you
have alot of your own emotional issues with you son.

If you want to use the typical 12 step treatment model
of drug abuse, then you Marc could go to a meeting and
pick up a white chip for being a chronic pot smoker.
Nobody in those rooms would recongise you as any
better or worse then the other junkies, crackheads or
alcoholics. Most ‘treatment pimps’ I have ever been
around would agree also, you have your own drug
problems no matter how you want to view it as a
lifestyle choice.

I am saying this so maybe you think about it. Not to
insult you. I don’t think smoking pot is a problem or
at least not in any way the same as being a junkie on
crack or even a alcoholic which can be very ugly. I am
also one of many here who finally got better when they
got away from the tretment pimps and 12 steps and I do
personally smoke pot and it helps! 🙂

I think you might have a very selective audience of
people who are very poor and desperete and come to you
for help and you have no experience with any other
kind of heroin using people. What you say about heroin
addicts and your understanding of why anyone uses
drugs other then pot is very much missing right now.

Please try to keep a open mind and don’t make all your
patients match your already conceived outcomes. Thank
you!

Carla B

— Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
I too, find your views extreme and limited, Mark.

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction,
and are not solely based on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life
can be dealt with without
serious crutches.

Hmm, that would considered an opinion and not based
on reality at all.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in
YOUR life that you lack
the will to overcome clearly destructive
tendencies? I can find the missing
link in the patients I have administered iboga to.
I can’t see the explantion
in your case.

Ummm, NEWS FLASH: overcoming addiction on
will-power? ROFLMAO!!! thats a good
one! Wish I had thought of that. Ibogaine made
obsolete!

~dh

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From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:33:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jennifer, The truth is in here somewhere:

>>>I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though<<<

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Bill,
My mother has said she never smoked or drank while pregnant with me, which I believe because she’s never been a smoker and didn’t drink much until the last few years, now she’s a big time Friday night drinker.  She did have a long labor with me…
I wasn’t separated ever from my parents until I moved about at 17, except for a very occasional weekend.  My mother did go to work when I was seven years old, after staying home with me.  I don’t remember feeling particularly traumatized about it though.  I do remember seeing some classroom mom’s (first grade helpers) that were very involved and had a twinge of jealously there, wishing my Mom were like that.  So, maybe I do hold some resentment over her leaving me??  But, still, nothing so awful and nothing that doesn’t happen to many kids who don’t turn to drugs!  I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
> I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents ..
> Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still
> always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue
> to try to fill up with pills.

Any indication of birth trauma? Mother drinking or smoking when
pregnant? Separation from parents in 1st year of life?

Bill Ross

 

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From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:34:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibogaine only helps the individual gain resolve over their own body and
actions, it does not precipitate a direct change in lefestyle until a will
is found in oneself.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

I too, find your views extreme and limited, Mark.

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction, and are not solely based
on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with
without
serious crutches.

Hmm, that would considered an opinion and not based on reality at all.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you
lack
the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the
missing
link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the
explantion
in your case.

Ummm, NEWS FLASH: overcoming addiction on will-power? ROFLMAO!!! thats a
good
one! Wish I had thought of that. Ibogaine made obsolete!

~dh

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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:36:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is not my (limited to 28 patients, 43 dosings) experience,

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction, and are not solely
based on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents<<<

I have not found many other factors.

Marc

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

I too, find your views extreme and limited, Mark.

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction, and are not solely based
on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with
without
serious crutches.

Hmm, that would considered an opinion and not based on reality at all.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you
lack
the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the
missing
link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the
explantion
in your case.

Ummm, NEWS FLASH: overcoming addiction on will-power? ROFLMAO!!! thats a
good
one! Wish I had thought of that. Ibogaine made obsolete!

~dh

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:27:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is nothing scary about iboga/ibogaine insofar as being something that will harm you or change you negatively.

There are times during the iboga experience where you may have intense and apocalyptic visualizations or feelings, and these may be ‘frightening’ but pose no harm to you.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

I wonder about myself also Marc.  I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents and two siblings.  Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue to try to fill up with pills.  I am hoping to try Ibogaine in a clinical setting in the Spring to help with the physical w/d and also to find out why I feel this way and how I can stay off for good, but I must it admit, being unfamiliar with Ibogaine, scares me!!!

Jennifer

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Allison,

The balanced childhood with two loving, compassionate biological parents provides confidence, stability, and warm environment where a child grows up confident of their self, their future.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with without serious crutches.

I believe the number of drug addicted individuals who had the benefit of two loving, biologically connected (to the child) parents who were present and non-violent is extremely rare.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you lack the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the missing link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the explantion in your case.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

 

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick is it true?
Date: September 10, 2003 at 11:51:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick,

Is it true that the web page below is used as a training page for ibogaine
providers?

http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/1996-10-21/index.html

It is dead obvious it is used in the methadone industry.

Howard

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Normal is sicker then Addicts,
Date: September 10, 2003 at 10:57:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Being a recently begun project we are in a constant process of
learning how to fine tune what we do and have much yet to learn.
In a sense it could almost be considered an initiation with iboga.

Coincidentally I just came across:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/~claude/tabernanthe-iboga-initiation.html

Sorry to mischaracterise your “red herring” statement, Sandra.

Bill

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Normal is sicker then Addicts,
Date: September 10, 2003 at 10:50:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandra,
Thanks for clarifying!!  🙂
I am trying to learn about myself and to become more open to discover how I have gotten to the place I am today and how I can grow as a person.  More than likely I will be applying to ITH as soon as you have the availability.  I am going to try to find a therapist that I can trust.  I am very close to my Dad and I think he’ll be very helpful in my journey.  My husband doesn’t understand my addiction as well as my father who has been there himself, but he’s also very supportive of me. I also have great friends and my sister and I are very close.
I’m still apprehensive about having my own Ibogaine experience, but the more I learn and the more issues I discover within myself, the more I realize I MUST do this.  Thanks,
Jennifer

“sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net> wrote:
Greetings,

perhaps I need to offer some clarity here. I can however, only give my perspective…

Jennifer, I did not intend my last post to be directed towards you. It was more of a response
to the thread begun by Marc. In reading your posts though, it seems to me that you have
opened up a process that you may feel like exploring in some more detail. We’re all on this
list looking for clues as to how to figure things out. If you have anyone in your life in whom you
can confide then seek them out and if not, then seek them out. I think perhaps it is our
greatest challenges through which we discover our greatest talents and i also suspect that
our talents are many and diverse…

For those of you interested in how the ITH is run, here is a brief synopsis:

Being a recently begun project we are in a constant process of learning how to fine tune what
we do and have much yet to learn. In a sense it could almost be considered an initiation with
iboga. Our intention is to provide the best assistance that we can in allowing others to
explore the potentials for themselves. A great deal of my focus goes into helping to create the
set and setting so to speak. Screening, evaluaton, facilitation and follow up are parts of the
project that I engage in. It also includes at times grocery shopping, set up, clean up and a
whole lot of time spent thinking about and discussing the implications of it all. Those of you
who know about our situation in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver B.C. will have some
inkling of what i mean.

Marc Emery is the sole funder and Director of the therapy house ( …to use technical jargon
speak and be slightly more specific). I beleive his reasons for doing this are honest and that
his intention is to learn more about it all. For those of you who are challenged by his posts
please bear in mind that we’ve all got a piece of the puzzle we just need to put them together.
As i mentioned in my last post, in email communication there is often a lack of context and
miscommunication happens through differences in syntax, lack of body language, facial
expession and tone of speech. What some may mistake for conclusions could in fact be an
invitation to discuss. This is why feeback is a key part of how we learn. Marc is a very busy
person with all that he does; several major projects have been ongoing for a long time, this
project is still in it’s infancy.

It has not been without its challenges and details to consider. I have a great deal of respect
for those of you that have been exploring this for awhile and am deeply honoured by those of
you who choose to share what you have learned.

Sara, it is unfortunate that we cannot afford to have an MD on board just yet. Our available
funding can not afford us this. We have just recently hired 2 new facilitators who are
intelligent, grounded and inspired. They will soon join this list and I am happy to welcome
them on our team. It’s a small team but a good one I suspect.

We are currently creating a database in hopes that it can be informative enough to the health
authorities, government and other interested groups to merit a greater look into the
potentials. There is a great deal of support coming from other organisations including an
attempt at generating funds for a follow-up study. The information is to be freely shared with
all in hopes of generating discussion and possibly formulating an action plan of sorts. In the
meantime we are all learning here and I hope we can do so with integrity…

Happy spanksgiving (a fave burning man quote)

-sandra

oh and Sara, I’m sooo interested in learning more about the mushroom, sleep, l-tryptophan
connection. Can we discuss this on the list? ..or off?

………………….www.thecorporation.tv ..check it.


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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Hartford, CT TV discovers Marc Emery Direct Seeds!
Date: September 10, 2003 at 10:48:21 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gamma wrote >AND, they have big 3 ring binders filled with volumes of
anti-drug propoganda
tailored to (try, anyways) scare the be-jeezus out of first time teen drug
offenders (10 car pile up, 12 dead and all the glossy photos from the wreck<

This may be a bit off-topic for the ibogaine list, but…
Back in the early 80s, a friend of mine was at a high school assembly one
morning, as the Florida Highway Patrol was giving a presentation on the
dangers of drunk driving. As the officer was speaking, behind him was a huge
movie screen emblazoned with slide shots of various wrecks. Lo and behold,
suddenly my friend realized that one of the wrecks the officers allowed to
linger on the screen behind him for some minutes was a photo of the car my
Dad and I were in, the one I was driving when I hit another car head on,
they going 55 and me 45 miles per hour.
The un-funny part of it was that we had been returning from a weekend
Fun-o-Ree, where boy scouts gathered at Camp Flying Eagle to give some
mentally challenged (former called retarded but am unsure what we call them
today) men the opportunity to get out in nature, go camping, and be boy
scouts for a weekend. I was an Eagle Scout and  definitely neither of us
were drunk, not my Dad as passenger nor me the driver- yet they still used
the photo of our car as it was a real humdinger of an accident, grusome and
graphic and shocking in the extreme.
Oh well.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Hartford, CT TV discovers Marc Emery
Direct Seeds!

Dunno if these were Connecticut State Troopers, but they are a SCARY Lot.
Perfectly crisp uniforms, army-issue buzz cuts and hats worn in a
perfectly
sterile manner.

AND, they have big 3 ring binders filled with volumes of anti-drug
propoganda
tailored to (try, anyways) scare the be-jeezus out of first time teen drug
offenders (10 car pile up, 12 dead and all the glossy photos from the
wreck
-“Marijuana is responsible for tradgedies like this” is what I was told.
Trooper Smith didn’t take too kindly to me inquiring as to why the caption
said
that the driver responsible had a a blood level of 0.10 (or whatever) of
ALCOHOL! No mention of Marijuana… the evil weed! LOL.

~gamma

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I never cease to be amazed at the ignorance and silliness on the part of
the
prohibitionists and their silly press lackies- I only wish they weren’t
so
destructive, uncompassionate, judgemental and mean in their silliness.
Peace,
Preston

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From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Normal is sicker then Addicts,
Date: September 10, 2003 at 10:06:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Greetings,

perhaps I need to offer some clarity here. I can however, only give my perspective…

Jennifer, I did not intend my last post to be directed towards you. It was more of a response
to the thread begun by Marc. In reading your posts though, it seems to me that you have
opened up a process that you may feel like exploring in some more detail. We’re all on this
list looking for clues as to how to figure things out. If you have anyone in your life in whom you
can confide then seek them out and if not, then seek them out. I think perhaps it is our
greatest challenges through which we discover our greatest talents and i also suspect that
our talents are many and diverse…

For those of you interested in how the ITH is run, here is a brief synopsis:

Being a recently begun project we are in a constant process of learning how to fine tune what
we do and have much yet to learn. In a sense it could almost be considered an initiation with
iboga. Our intention is to provide the best assistance that we can in allowing others to
explore the potentials for themselves. A great deal of my focus goes into helping to create the
set and setting so to speak. Screening, evaluaton, facilitation and follow up are parts of the
project that I engage in. It also includes at times grocery shopping, set up, clean up and a
whole lot of time spent thinking about and discussing the implications of it all. Those of you
who know about our situation in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver B.C. will have some
inkling of what i mean.

Marc Emery is the sole funder and Director of the therapy house ( …to use technical jargon
speak and be slightly more specific). I beleive his reasons for doing this are honest and that
his intention is to learn more about it all. For those of you who are challenged by his posts
please bear in mind that we’ve all got a piece of the puzzle we just need to put them together.
As i mentioned in my last post, in email communication there is often a lack of context and
miscommunication happens through differences in syntax, lack of body language, facial
expession and tone of speech. What some may mistake for conclusions could in fact be an
invitation to discuss. This is why feeback is a key part of how we learn. Marc is a very busy
person with all that he does; several major projects have been ongoing for a long time, this
project is still in it’s infancy.

It has not been without its challenges and details to consider. I have a great deal of respect
for those of you that have been exploring this for awhile and am deeply honoured by those of
you who choose to share what you have learned.

Sara, it is unfortunate that we cannot afford to have an MD on board just yet. Our available
funding can not afford us this. We have just recently hired 2 new facilitators who are
intelligent, grounded and inspired. They will soon join this list and I am happy to welcome
them on our team. It’s a small team but a good one I suspect.

We are currently creating a database in hopes that it can be informative enough to the health
authorities, government and other interested groups to merit a greater look into the
potentials. There is a great deal of support coming from other organisations including an
attempt at generating funds for a follow-up study. The information is to be freely shared with
all in hopes of generating discussion and possibly formulating an action plan of sorts. In the
meantime we are all learning here and I hope we can do so with integrity…

Happy spanksgiving (a fave burning man quote)

-sandra

oh and Sara, I’m sooo interested in learning more about the mushroom, sleep, l-tryptophan
connection. Can we discuss this on the list? ..or off?

………………….www.thecorporation.tv   ..check it.


_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net

Powered by Outblaze

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Normal is sicker then Addicts,
Date: September 10, 2003 at 8:44:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You can’t name one problem and think that’s the reason why millions of
people become addicts,

Possibly the reason that all the people Marc has treated lacked
a parent as children is because, as a colorful alternative
patriarchal figure himself (founder of a hemp seed empire,
polititian/activist) he provides an image of the ideal parent
what they are missing. Which seems to be working quite well
for all concerned.

Bill Ross

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 8:02:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for me actually no matter how good shit was as a child, there was always something missing, untill today i still do not understand some of those feelings.
for me i fell onto heroin by mistake a pure fluke,at a very young age, but when i tried it the first time i new from that moment that my relationship with heroin was going to be a life long struggle, from that day on i never looked back, i did what it took to get it, i payed every consequence, and now years later,since i got sober, i am still paying. and as i said before i still have some of those feelings that there is something missing..

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Topic
Date: September 10, 2003 at 7:53:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jamilah,

Issue # A-1) Where normally I would object to the posting of a private email
without my permission as the purpose of this email was information concerning
a conference and not something more personal I will waive any objections.

Issue A)  My response has already been given as indicated in your post.

Issue 2)  Your husband’s citations for the Witter article is not correct.  It
was not presented at the Eighth International Conference on Drug Related Harm
but, in its printed version appeared in The Times Magazine (London), July
1998.

The presentation during The Eighth International Conference on Drug Related
Harm follows.  I hope this is of assistance but, am not certain what response
you are seeking in relation to either of the articles.  Possibly, you could be
more specific.

Howard

Presented  by Barbara E. Judd, CSW
The Eighth International Conference on Drug Related Harm
Washington, DC
November 19, 1994
Introduction
I have been working with chemically dependent patients, some having dual
diagnoses, for twelve years in outpatient settings. My observations have been that
the earliest phase of recovery, the first ninety days, is the most difficult
for the therapist and the patient. I would like to compare and contrast
certain issues seen as obstacles by patients, some of whom were treated with the
Lotsof method and some treated in traditional outpatient settings.
My observations are based on a small sample of patients seen in the U.S. and
overseas. These observations are inconclusive and my work is ongoing.

My involvement with Ibogaine began in June 1993, when I was approached by the
International Coalition for Addict Self-Help (ICASH) and requested to provide
after care for five patients who were treated with Ibogaine and were eager to
share their experience and struggles. Four of the group were white males
ranging in age from early thirties to mid forties. One was a female in her
thirties. Their dependencies were to heroin, Methadone and/or cocaine. Additional
substance use included marijuana, alcohol and psychedelics. This group met once a
week for the duration of one year.

Concurrent treatment was provided to one member of this group on an
individual basis. This patient, who we will refer to as “M” is still presently under my
care. “M” is thirty-three years old and formerly heroin/methadone/cocaine
dependent. He has been using drugs since the age of fourteen.

My most recent involvement with Ibogaine has been with NDA International,
Inc. where I participated in the treatment of three patients using the Lotsof
method in Panama. All three patients were white males in the thirty to forty age
range. Two patients’ major drug of choice was cocaine. The route of
administration for one patient was nasal and smoking. The second patient also
administered cocaine by IV route. The third patient was heroin/cocaine dependent and
occasionally used methadone in attempts to curb his habit. All patients had used
drugs from six to sixteen years.

One of the most difficult aspects of treatment is getting the patient to
enter treatment. The three major obstacles are the fear of detoxification, lack of
insight, and the inability of patients to control their urges to use drugs.
These are the areas where I have observed the benefits of Ibogaine treatment
versus traditional methods.

Fear of Detoxificatin
Across the board, addicts who enter outpatient treatment programs report that
their fear of detoxing from drugs has prevented them from attending
treatment. Although withdrawal from cocaine is not as severe or obvious as that from
opiate narcotics, there is a fear of the psychological pain of never being able
to use again. There is also a dread that once drug free, feelings that have
been blocked by self-medicating will surface and be too overwhelming for the
patient to handle.

Most heroin addicts are petrified of withdrawal symptoms and are afraid of
hospital detoxification. Outpatient clients have stated to me that they have
delayed treatment to avoid this anticipated discomfort.

My observations with Ibogaine treated patients have been that patients are
eager to be treated when they know that Ibogaine promises to eliminate painful
withdrawal, takes one administration with up to seventy-two hours of supervised
care, and promises to interrupt their urges to use drugs.
Three patients: Panama
Patient ‘1’ had used approximately $100 each per day of heroin and cocaine by
IV administration for twenty of the thirty days prior to Ibogaine treatment.
Patient ‘2”, prior to treatment was using $80 per day of cocaine and
alcohol.
Patient ‘3’ was using $50 of cocaine on a daily basis via IV injection and
smoking. He had previously been heroin dependent.
I observed during treatment with the Lotsof method, all of the three patients
treated appeared calm and comfortable and exhibited no signs of withdrawal.
This is significant considering the extent of the level of their drug use prior
to treatment with Ibogaine.
For these patients to have had little discomfort during withdrawal, speaks to
the importance of the use of Ibogaine in the beginning of the recovery
process. As patient ‘M’ had stated, ‘Ibogaine is a much more humane and dignified
approach to detox’.

Obstacles Within Traditional Treatment
Returning to the obstacles of treatment, the second being the patients’ lack
of
insight. Insight is necessary for patients to be able to focus and develop
goals while in recovery.
Patients in traditional outpatient groups who have less than ninety days
clean, spend more time struggling with their urges to use and dealing with their
defenses, specifically denial. They do develop insight into their problems,
however, it takes at least one year of group treatment meetings one or two times
a week on a regular basis.

In contrast, my involvement with providing after care for the Ibogaine
treated group showed these patients as having tremendous insight into their own
issues, their feelings, and what might have caused them to use in the first place.

After their Ibogaine treatment, patients began to see their drug use as
destructive. This realization, coupled with psychotherapy, has allowed these
patients to work on how to stay clean and to focus on what they must do to maintain
a less destructive lifestyle.

The reason for this insight developed by these patients appears to be the
release of repressed material during the visualization stage of Ibogaine
treatment. This material includes both images and racing thoughts, which somehow get
processed to allow patients to have a better understanding of their emotional
histories.

The urge to use drugs again, is the highest cause for people to drop out of
traditional treatment. Relapse, I think, is clearly inherent in the definition
of substance-related disorders. In working with people treated with or without
Ibogaine, my observations have been that relapse at some point is certain.

However, according to members in the Ibogaine group, Ibogaine had reduced
their urges to use, anywhere from two months to more than one year. This
advantage allowed these patients to get a head start in their recovery, whereas
clients in traditional outpatient treatment have a great deal of confusion around
how to control their urges. Consequently, those patients have to learn very
basic and concrete ways to stay clean as taught by self-help meetings, and
emphasized in psychotherapy. The Ibogaine after care group did not appear to need
self-help type assistance to reduce their urges, but seemed to benefit well from
psychotherapy.
Conclusion
In conclusion, there is difficulty treating the drug addicted patient,
particularly in the early stages of recovery, because of their fear of detox, their
lack of insight, and their urges to relapse.

Thus far, there is no opportunity for Ibogaine treatment within the United
States. It is my recommendation that there be future research done with
Ibogaine, so that
some of the above mentioned observations are supported by more conclusive
data.
The prospects for a painless withdrawal method makes Ibogaine an attractive
alternative to traditional treatment methods. Because Ibogaine interrupts
substance related disorders, it gives patients a head start in their recovery. It
also increases the patients’ receptiveness to psychotherapy, which is a
necessary component to the recovery process.

In a message dated 9/10/03 5:58:08 AM, jamilah@erols.com writes:

Folks:

I’m new to this site, but have found 2 issues I have questions about. I
hope not to be considered a “flame thrower” in the lingo. Please note which
issue you are responding to in the list.

By the way, I got interested in Ibogaine through looking for radical
substance
abuse treatment plans for homeless and low-income urbanites, for whom I
provide health care. I don’t consider my self a treatment asshole, but
maybe I am.But here goes anyway. I’m sure this post is more than 50
paragraphs
(for real), but I became paranoid I’d be blocked after the first one. Read
what you please and leave the rest.

Issue A

Please note the Ibogaine Round Table schedule at this link:

http://www.ibogaine.org/dpa.html

I believe that to give the ibogaine professionals coming from so far as
BC and WI, only 10 minute talks is a complete insult and disrespect. And
to charge everyone $150 for 1 1/2 hours? Please see my private correspondence
with Howard Lotsof below. (my apologies, Howard)

In a message dated 9/7/03 2:13:37 PM, jamilah@erols.com writes:

The conference lineup and topics look great!!

But never in my life have I seen a schedule with only 10 minutes for each
of these immense topics. ???

The conference should be all afternoon I should think. .. I’m sure many
people like myself are coming quite a long way for this event, for it only
to last 1 hour and 10 minutes? Also to pay that amount plus travel costs
for that little time…
Please respond?

Jamilah,

The Roundtable is only one small part of a three day conference. And while
the presenters have only ten minutes to present there is approximately
a half hour discussion period.  I have always been a believer that you can
really
say what is important in ten minutes.  I guess this will be proof in the
pudding.

However, there is the before and after the Roundtable to talk to presenters.
This is the first time the DPA has held an ibogaine workshop/roundtable
either in its history or for at least ten years.  I am not certain which of
those
of us who are harm reduction oriented consider this an opportunity to get
the word out in a friendly environment and meet others who are doing good
work.

You can check http://www.drugpolicy.org/events/dpa2003/ but, they don’t
appear to have their agenda for the full conference up yet.

Hope this helps.

Howard

Issue #2

My husband, being the helpful skeptic, did some research and found this
on the Ibogaine Association site
http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/article10.html:

The following are excerpts from this 16 page article, was presented at
The Eighth International Conference on Drug Related Harm Washington, DC
November 19, 1994. It is long, but it hipped me to a lot regarding Ibogaine
in the US. This story may be old to everyone else. If so, please forgive
me for rehashing. If not, I’d love to hear comments or updates.

Ibogaine

By Simon Witter

.a new drug that is provoking a flood of scientific interest. There have
been around 4,000 research papers on the subject so far, including snappy,
layman-friendly stuff like: “Quantum Coherence in Microtubules: A Neural
Basis For Emergent Consciousness?”.

In the 1950s and 60s, American psychologist Leo Zeff and psychiatrist Claudio
Naranjo were using it in their practice, and chemical giant the CIBA
corporation
(now CIBA-Geigy) was investigating its usefulness as an anti-anxiety drug,
but ibogaine’s potential to painlessly release people from the craving
for drugs was discovered quite by accident.

In 1962, Howard Lotsof – a Jewish film student from New York – was given
a single dose of ibogaine. Deciding that a 36-hour hallucinogen sounded
too exhausting for him to want to take, he gave it to a much more experienced
friend, who came back and told him that this was a completely new kind
of drug. Howard was part of a focus group of 20 or more friends
self-experimenting
with psychoactive drugs like Mescaline, DMT, psilocybin and LSD (all legal
at the time). Some of the drugs were euphoriant, some weren’t. They took
ibogaine as part of that experimentation, with no intention whatsoever
of giving up any kind of drug use, but 33 hours later Lotsof discovered
that he was no longer dependent on heroin. For six months after that one
dose he also stopped taking cocaine and all other drugs. The effect on
the rest of the group was much the same.

Lotsof was 19 at the time, and knew very little about pharmaceutical
development,
so nothing became of this accidental revelation. As an active member of
the counterculture, he spent the 60s ferrying student strikers from one
area to another during the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley, California,
re-acquainting himself with heroin in 69 and finally detoxing and stabilizing
his life in one of the first methadone programs in 1970, after which he
ran a plumbing business in New York, studied film and television again
and worked as a line producer for Rock Against Racism concerts. But in
the 80s he began to feel that his youthful discovery was “too important
not to pursue”, and started hunting for pharmaceutical grade ibogaine to
conduct research with. In 1986 he had founded a New York corporation, NDA
International, Inc., whose purpose was partly a humanitarian mission and
partly the marketing of a proprietary pharmaceutical preparation, Endabuse,
composed of capsules of ibogaine hydrochloride. He had filed patents for
the use of ibogaine to treat addiction, and was well on the way to bringing
this treatment to the needy millions.

So just what is the success rate for ibogaine treatments? “If you’re looking
at opiate detox,” says Lotsof, “I’d say almost 100%. If you’re talking
about interruption of chemical dependence, I’d say 10% are immediately
cured, 10% aren’t cured at all and the rest require three to four treatments
over a two year period, because we’re not just talking about a
pharmacological
reversal of chemical dependence. Chemical dependence is a learned behaviour
that has to be unlearned. Ibogaine is an unlearning tool, as well as a
substance that blocks narcotic withdrawal.”

Good therapy is something all ibogaine patients stress as being a vital
component of treatment.

The idea of treating drug addiction with a psychoactive drug is one of
the more controversial aspects of ibogaine – a possible hurdle on its path
to mainstream acceptance -.

Frankly, whether drug barons approve of ibogaine or not is by the by. The
bad news is that ibogaine – which should have been about three years away
from public availability – is not going to be with us in the near future.
The laborious and expensive process of bringing a new substance to the
mass market has been temporarily stopped by two killer blows.

Ironically, it is a legal tussle between the two people most vital to the
development of ibogaine research that is standing in the way of immediate
progress. According to Lotsof, the critical toxicity studies that were
required for FDA approval (without which no drug can be marketed) have
been stopped by Deborah Mash, who has now patented several ibogaine-like
substances. Lotsof sued her for breach of contract, both for stopping the
tests and patenting analogs which (under the terms of the contract) should
belong to NDA. But Mash countersued, and Lotsof didn’t have enough money
to go to court. One day before he lost the case by default, he was offered
the services of an attorney on a contingency basis (no win, no pay). The
trial is now set to go ahead in the next few months, but for Lotsof it
may already be too late.

“Putting myself aside,” he says, “the way the FDA development of the drug
has been held up for years is terrible. Though ibogaine is a restricted
substance in the US, the FDA gave a go-ahead for human testing and the
DEA is cooperative on the matter. That work should have been completed
by now. It has simply been stopped while competing products have been
developed,
which are nowhere near the stage of ibogaine. They’re a series of
ibogaine-like
drugs called Bioactive Trycyclic Ibogaine Analog and, as far as I know,
they haven’t even gone into animal studies yet.”

Dr Mash, unsuprisingly, vehemently disputes Lotsof’s version of events,
insisting that the Tryclic Ibogaine Analogs are a whole new class of
compounds
synthesised by a collaborator of hers at the University of Minnesota,
independently
from her clinical trial in humans with ibogaine or from the Endabuse
procedure.
She also says that her 1992 contract with Lotsof covers “findings relating
to the procedure of administering ibogaine”, and that when (during that
research) she, Juan Sanchez-Ramos and Doctor Lee Hearn discovered an active
metabolite called Nor-ibogaine (a wholly new molecule), and disclosed their
findings, Lotsof came down to Miami and discussed the new finding, agreeing
on a 50/50 split with the university, then went back to New York, announced
it was all his and threatened to sue. Though Mash had borne all the develo
pment
costs, the University of Miami – fearful of litigation – assigned the rights
to Nor-ibogaine to Lotsof, in lieu of a 12% royalty string. He then demanded
half a million dollars from the University for the first patent application,
while putting through a second patent that names him as the inventor and
sole owner.

“It was a such a stupid thing,” says Mash. “Here’s the only academic
environment
that has ever offered him the chance to test his drug in a scientifically
credible way, and he immediately turns round and bites the hand that’s
feeding him. At that juncture the ibogaine project was dead for lack of
funds. I worked my tail off to get the FDA to approve the tests, and when
I got FDA approval to go into humans, I increased the value of his patents
signifcantly, but he still can’t bring in any money at all. It takes a
lot of money to get a drug through FDA approval. I don’t have it, and it’s
not my job to pay for the development of ibogaine so he can make all the
money off it later. Nor-ibogaine, which I’m very excited about and think
holds real promise, is at the point of being abandoned. We tried to negotiate
with Mr Lotsof, we asked for a meeting and offered him money and a share.
But he doesn’t want that. He wants full control. Lotsof’s ego won’t let
anyone else be a part of it. He has poisoned every well.”

On top of the bust-up with Dr Mash, NIDA (the National Institute on Drug
Abuse, a branch of the National Institute on Health in Maryland), which
has already pumped many millions of dollars in grants into ibogaine research,
seems to have gone cold on the whole idea. One of many theories about why
this has happened is that there is a “methadone mafia” entrenched in both
NIDA and the scientific/medical community that feels deeply threatened
by the prospect of a proper cure to addiction. Lotsof himself is not so
sure about this conspiracy theory. “Even some of the methadone people are
beginning to swing around. The responsible ones would like every tool at
their disposal to help people dependent on drugs, but any new technology
is met with resistance by the old guard. NIDA had no just cause not to
proceed with Ibogaine development. They know full well that in
hospital-administered
safety studies there would be little chance of medical emergencies, and
their concern relating to neurotoxicity has been shown to be nil.”

Dana Beal, AIDs activist, Yippie movement founder and co-author of The
Ibogaine Story, feels strongly that NIDA has a problem with Howard Lotsof’s
background, that his roots in the counterculture and his ultimately sensible
views on the state’s idiotic “war on drugs” make him someone they would
rather demonise than help, however good his product. “Things Deborah Mash
said to me before we stopped talking indicated that NIDA had a problem
with Lotsof. Howard was too close to people like me. ONDCP (the Drug Czar)
has been under instructions not to deal with legalizers since mid-93 at
least.”

“I spent four years working with Howard Lotsof,” says Frank Vocci, Director
of The Medications Development Division at NIDA, who takes great exception
to this idea. “There’s no way I would spend several million dollars of
taxpayers’ money – and we did – just to basically parry someone off in
a clever fashion. I’d tell them flat-out to get lost.”

Though he admits that NIDA is now concentrating on its own specific
cocaine-blocking
products, Vocci sighs with frustration at the suggestion that ibogaine
is being held back to further them. “I’d say the converse is true. It was
a major project here, and we gave this our best shot and spent an awful
lot of resources and staff time on it we could have spent on something
else. In 95 we asked a group of outside clinicians if we should go ahead
with this drug. We got nine serious NOs and four tentative YESses. Our
current policy is that we will not initiate any research from within the
institute, but we will fund research on ibogaine that gets through the
peer review process with a fundable score.” .

In a long and fascinating letter to Frank Vocci dated 3/10/95, and released
a year later after a Freedom Of Information action was filed, Curtis Wright
(Medical Review Officer of the Pilot Drug Staff of the FDA) outlines why
– though ibogaine is a very good thing – he feels that NIDA should support
but not directly develop it themselves. “Drugs that NIDA develops directly
should be, as far as possible, EASY WINS’ where the pharmaceutical
development
questions are minimal……Ibogaine is too big a job for your team at this
time. It may prove a black hole, sucking all your resources down a single
venture capital’ project……What is not speculative is that a significant
number of members of the public that we serve feel that the drug deserves
investigation. You face the problem of deciding how far to expend research
dollars funding their desire to see the drug evaluated.”

As a NIDA-approved researcher, Dr Mash noticed the organisation’s change
of attitude when, in a last ditch attempt to raise funds for ibogaine
research,
she applied for a grant to research its use in treating cocaine addiction.
“They turned down my grant application, which has never happened to me
before, in language that made it clear they didn’t want to know. I wept
when I got that, because I didn’t believe we’d see that, and I thought
then that ibogaine was dead”. She continues to research and treat with
ibogaine at her recently established Healing Visions Institute for Addiction
Recovery in the Caribbean but, when trying to get investors for this venture,
she found that intellectual property was a real issue, and is now petitioning
the court for a designation about the Nor+ patent, “because we feel that
Lotsof is not the inventor”.

If ibogaine works so well – and the Mash/Lotsof legal tussle suggests that
they know its future potential only too well – corporations and capitalists
everywhere should be falling over each other to invest in a slice of the
pie. George Soros, the billionaire businessman with an enlightened attitude
to US drug policy, regularly sponsors ibogaine seminars in New York, but
big business backing is palpably lacking.

“Despite what appears to be a huge market for a drug that could interrupt
drug addiction,” says Don Allan, “ibogaine does not fit the profile of
a prescription drug that can make money for a pharmaceutical manufacturer.
Most prescription drugs are administered daily over a period of weeks,
months, or years. Ibogaine is generally used once in a single dose, and
then followed up with several months of psychotherapy.”

“Over the last 15 years,” says Lotsof, “I have contacted many of the larger
and some middle level pharmaceutical companies, as well as many investment
houses and venture capitalists. From capital the answer is a question:
Do you have FDA approval? When I respond no, they one-and-all said: ‘No
thank you, we’ve been burned before’. There has been and will be very little
interest in major companies developing new medications to treat addiction.
Addicts are dying at a much faster rate than the general population, and
in a country like the U.S. there is a much greater chance of legal actions
by the families of those who die, for whatever reason. Thus, when a
pharmaceutical
company makes a decision on what drug they will develop or not, they must
take into consideration the risks related to litigation. The key is legal
liability, and a fear of having their medications associated with addiction,
treatment or not.”.

Ibogaine is a paradigm shift,” says Ken Alper. “That’s why it’s being
resisted.
That is consistent with the history of every truly new development in
science.
The ‘movement’ should be less bitter. That an informal self-help culture
of addicts has got this far is quite amazing. These people have no political
power, no big industry connections. It takes $20-50 million to bring a
drug to the market. They’re halfway through that phase with no sponsor.
That’s not bad. And it’s not over yet.”

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 7:49:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with Allisson, a grew up in a house with 2 loving parents, a father that was more a friend than anything, which in later years is what saved my life. i went to private schools
and public 15 of them to be precise, never graduated, became a drug dealer at 15 and never looked back, never had dope problems, i fed my addiction with a vengeance for years, only to have overdosed many times in that time,and to be honest if it were not for my father i would not have been on methadone for close to 5 years, and today fully sober, so i beleive that
you cannot catagorize junkies we are all diffrent with all kinds of experiences some the same some not but , but sorry no 2 stories are the same…

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 7:17:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Bill, the off trackness may be useful after all, what I read last night (in the link the last) describing the babyhood experience and her feelings, really hit home for me.  It brought me to tears actually.  I suppose this is why I feel so strongly about attachment with my daughter if I was disconnected as an infant.  I’m not trying to blame my addiction on my hurts in the past, but can it be helpful in healing to realize why you feel and act the way you do?  I don’t know.  I know that the feelings and thoughts in that paper sounded exactly like me.  So much that it hurt to read it.

If my daughter were in my situation or any of my children, I would want them to get help at any cost. I would want them to be whole.  I would not be very helpful offering suggestions on how to help at this stage though because I am unable to help myself, much less offer advise to anyone else.  So, yes, that statement is more helpful and very eye opening for me.  I suppose even though I”m doing all the ‘right’ things I’m still not a ‘whole’ parent.

I would say that her comment, first suprised me and then made me feel as if my feelings were not important. (A common theme in my life)  I also felt the need to justify or explain (another common theme) to get everyone to ‘understand’ and accept me and my actions.

Anyway, thanks again for our thought provoking conversations.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Jennifer,

> The post also implied I may be making my daughter unable to do
> things or think for herself by my parenting,

That wasn’t intended. You may want to read what I wrote more carefully.
Putting it another way, what would you want your daughter to do if she
found herself in your situation?

> I suppose I thought it was an intelligent and thought provoking
> conversation that seemed to naturally steer in the direction of
> how people are parented when Bill and I started discussing attachment.

It was.. but is it helping you find an answer? One for your heart?

> I feel like I’ve broken a rule or done something wrong

I think you just made Sandra lose patience. That could be useful
to think about, since she sounds like a practical person for
helping people. Also it could be useful to look at how her rejection
made you feel.

Bill

 

Do you Yahoo!?
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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 6:39:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know about missing anything in particular.  I know I tried opiates out of curiousity cos it was there and a lot of friends were doing it and it felt sooo good at the time.  Guess the biggest mistake I made was thinking I could control it but it didn’t quite work out that way.  Some friends did exactly the same and walked away from it and others kept on trying to keep going to differing degrees which is why I said it seems like a body chemistry thing.   I didn’t stop cos I didn’t like doing it but cos it cost so much money and when I couldn’t find or afford anything I eventually got sick of the cycle of being sick.  Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 10 September 2003 2:52:21 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Allison,

The balanced childhood with two loving, compassionate biological parents provides confidence, stability, and warm environment where a child grows up confident of their self, their future.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with without serious crutches.

I believe the number of drug addicted individuals who had the benefit of two loving, biologically connected (to the child) parents who were present and non-violent is extremely rare.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you lack the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the missing link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the explantion in your case.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

 

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Normal is sicker then Addicts,
Date: September 10, 2003 at 3:34:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At least an addict would say , I’m an addict and I know it I steal and lie for dope, it isn’t a secret that I’m a user, a “normal”  person can be very much an addict
to other things then drugs but they will not see it or admit it , they can be just a hypocritical  liars and no even know it.
And because they don’t use opiates they can be very arrogant.
But just  as Preston wrote , most of world problems are coming from “normal” people  and not >from a poor addict.

You can’t name one problem and think that’s the reason why millions of people become addicts,
The drugs are everywhere and some like Heroin some like cannabis and other likes Junk food and Money making addiction some people are addicted to fame,
Nudity, SM, face lifting, abuse, sadism and to taking advantages of other people knowledge, to steal the credits and patent and think that they have the full right that is “normal”.
they call it freedom of choice.

What is the cause of that? The cause is life in itself. WE are tools for each other learning. Only some people learn fast and some need 20 lifetimes,

Sandra,  if you are doing the treatments how come Marc is the one to make conclusions?

I would say there is a leek of communication there and people are your guinea- pigs, Marc writing isn’t honest.
Why don’t you pay a MD for social sciences to write your scientific papers?  Who is sick and why?

in The Netherlands  the % of the heroin users didn’t grow since the 1960 but more people get divorced the ever before 3 of every 5  marriages  break down.

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 10, 2003 at 2:31:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jennifer,

The post also implied I may be making my daughter unable to do
things or think for herself by my parenting,

That wasn’t intended. You may want to read what I wrote more carefully.
Putting it another way, what would you want your daughter to do if she
found herself in your situation?

I suppose I thought it was an intelligent and thought provoking
conversation that seemed to naturally steer in the direction of
how people are parented when Bill and I started discussing attachment.

It was.. but is it helping you find an answer? One for your heart?

I feel like I’ve broken a rule or done something wrong

I think you just made Sandra lose patience. That could be useful
to think about, since she sounds like a practical person for
helping people. Also it could be useful to look at how her rejection
made you feel.

Bill

From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] New Topic
Date: September 10, 2003 at 1:55:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Folks:

I’m new to this site, but have found 2 issues I have questions about. I hope not to be considered a “flame thrower” in the lingo… Please note which issue you are responding to in the list.

By the way, I got interested in Ibogaine through looking for radical substance abuse treatment plans for homeless and low-income urbanites, for whom I provide health care. I don’t consider my self a treatment asshole, but maybe I am…But here goes anyway. I’m sure this post is more than 50 paragraphs (for real), but I became paranoid I’d be blocked after the first one. Read what you please and leave the rest.

Issue A

Please note the Ibogaine Round Table schedule at this link:

http://www.ibogaine.org/dpa.html

I believe that to give the ibogaine professionals coming from so far as BC and WI, only 10 minute talks is a complete insult and disrespect. And to charge everyone $150 for 1 1/2 hours? Please see my private correspondence with Howard Lotsof below. (my apologies, Howard)

In a message dated 9/7/03 2:13:37 PM, jamilah@erols.com writes:

The conference lineup and topics look great!!

>But never in my life have I seen a schedule with only 10 minutes for each
>of these immense topics. ???
>
>The conference should be all afternoon I should think. .. I’m sure many
>people like myself are coming quite a long way for this event, for it only
>to last 1 hour and 10 minutes? Also to pay that amount plus travel costs
>for that little time…
>
>Please respond?

Jamilah,

The Roundtable is only one small part of a three day conference. And while 
the presenters have only ten minutes to present there is approximately a half 
hour discussion period.  I have always been a believer that you can really say 
what is important in ten minutes.  I guess this will be proof in the pudding. 
However, there is the before and after the Roundtable to talk to presenters.  
This is the first time the DPA has held an ibogaine workshop/roundtable either 
in its history or for at least ten years.  I am not certain which so those of 
us who are harm reduction oriented consider this an opportunity to get the 
word out in a friendly environment and meet others who are doing good work.

You can check http://www.drugpolicy.org/events/dpa2003/ but, they don’t 
appear to have their agenda for the full conference up yet.

Hope this helps.

Howard

Issue #2

My husband, being the helpful skeptic, did some research and found this on the Ibogaine Association site http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/article10.html:
The following are excerpts from this 16 page article, was presented at The Eighth International Conference on Drug Related Harm Washington, DC November 19, 1994. It is long, but it hipped me to a lot regarding Ibogaine in the US. This story may be old to everyone else. If so, please forgive me for rehashing. If not, I’d love to hear comments or updates.
Ibogaine
By Simon Witter
…a new drug that is provoking a flood of scientific interest. There have been around 4,000 research papers on the subject so far, including snappy, layman-friendly stuff like: “Quantum Coherence in Microtubules: A Neural Basis For Emergent Consciousness?”.
In the 1950s and 60s, American psychologist Leo Zeff and psychiatrist Claudio Naranjo were using it in their practice, and chemical giant the CIBA corporation (now CIBA-Geigy) was investigating its usefulness as an anti-anxiety drug, but ibogaine’s potential to painlessly release people from the craving for drugs was discovered quite by accident.
In 1962, Howard Lotsof – a Jewish film student from New York – was given a single dose of ibogaine. Deciding that a 36-hour hallucinogen sounded too exhausting for him to want to take, he gave it to a much more experienced friend, who came back and told him that this was a completely new kind of drug. Howard was part of a focus group of 20 or more friends self-experimenting with psychoactive drugs like Mescaline, DMT, psilocybin and LSD (all legal at the time). Some of the drugs were euphoriant, some weren’t. They took ibogaine as part of that experimentation, with no intention whatsoever of giving up any kind of drug use, but 33 hours later Lotsof discovered that he was no longer dependent on heroin. For six months after that one dose he also stopped taking cocaine and all other drugs. The effect on the rest of the group was much the same.
Lotsof was 19 at the time, and knew very little about pharmaceutical development, so nothing became of this accidental revelation. As an active member of the counterculture, he spent the 60s ferrying student strikers from one area to another during the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley, California, re-acquainting himself with heroin in 69 and finally detoxing and stabilizing his life in one of the first methadone programs in 1970, after which he ran a plumbing business in New York, studied film and television again and worked as a line producer for Rock Against Racism concerts. But in the 80s he began to feel that his youthful discovery was “too important not to pursue”, and started hunting for pharmaceutical grade ibogaine to conduct research with. In 1986 he had founded a New York corporation, NDA International, Inc., whose purpose was partly a humanitarian mission and partly the marketing of a proprietary pharmaceutical preparation, Endabuse, composed of capsules of ibogaine hydrochloride. He had filed patents for the use of ibogaine to treat addiction, and was well on the way to bringing this treatment to the needy millions…
So just what is the success rate for ibogaine treatments? “If you’re looking at opiate detox,” says Lotsof, “I’d say almost 100%. If you’re talking about interruption of chemical dependence, I’d say 10% are immediately cured, 10% aren’t cured at all and the rest require three to four treatments over a two year period, because we’re not just talking about a pharmacological reversal of chemical dependence. Chemical dependence is a learned behaviour that has to be unlearned. Ibogaine is an unlearning tool, as well as a substance that blocks narcotic withdrawal.”
Good therapy is something all ibogaine patients stress as being a vital component of treatment…

The idea of treating drug addiction with a psychoactive drug is one of the more controversial aspects of ibogaine – a possible hurdle on its path to mainstream acceptance -…

Frankly, whether drug barons approve of ibogaine or not is by the by. The bad news is that ibogaine – which should have been about three years away from public availability – is not going to be with us in the near future. The laborious and expensive process of bringing a new substance to the mass market has been temporarily stopped by two killer blows.
Ironically, it is a legal tussle between the two people most vital to the development of ibogaine research that is standing in the way of immediate progress. According to Lotsof, the critical toxicity studies that were required for FDA approval (without which no drug can be marketed) have been stopped by Deborah Mash, who has now patented several ibogaine-like substances. Lotsof sued her for breach of contract, both for stopping the tests and patenting analogs which (under the terms of the contract) should belong to NDA. But Mash countersued, and Lotsof didn’t have enough money to go to court. One day before he lost the case by default, he was offered the services of an attorney on a contingency basis (no win, no pay). The trial is now set to go ahead in the next few months, but for Lotsof it may already be too late.
“Putting myself aside,” he says, “the way the FDA development of the drug has been held up for years is terrible. Though ibogaine is a restricted substance in the US, the FDA gave a go-ahead for human testing and the DEA is cooperative on the matter. That work should have been completed by now. It has simply been stopped while competing products have been developed, which are nowhere near the stage of ibogaine. They’re a series of ibogaine-like drugs called Bioactive Trycyclic Ibogaine Analog and, as far as I know, they haven’t even gone into animal studies yet.”
Dr Mash, unsuprisingly, vehemently disputes Lotsof’s version of events, insisting that the Tryclic Ibogaine Analogs are a whole new class of compounds synthesised by a collaborator of hers at the University of Minnesota, independently from her clinical trial in humans with ibogaine or from the Endabuse procedure. She also says that her 1992 contract with Lotsof covers “findings relating to the procedure of administering ibogaine”, and that when (during that research) she, Juan Sanchez-Ramos and Doctor Lee Hearn discovered an active metabolite called Nor-ibogaine (a wholly new molecule), and disclosed their findings, Lotsof came down to Miami and discussed the new finding, agreeing on a 50/50 split with the university, then went back to New York, announced it was all his and threatened to sue. Though Mash had borne all the development costs, the University of Miami – fearful of litigation – assigned the rights to Nor-ibogaine to Lotsof, in lieu of a 12% royalty string. He then demanded half a million dollars from the University for the first patent application, while putting through a second patent that names him as the inventor and sole owner.
“It was a such a stupid thing,” says Mash. “Here’s the only academic environment that has ever offered him the chance to test his drug in a scientifically credible way, and he immediately turns round and bites the hand that’s feeding him. At that juncture the ibogaine project was dead for lack of funds. I worked my tail off to get the FDA to approve the tests, and when I got FDA approval to go into humans, I increased the value of his patents signifcantly, but he still can’t bring in any money at all. It takes a lot of money to get a drug through FDA approval. I don’t have it, and it’s not my job to pay for the development of ibogaine so he can make all the money off it later. Nor-ibogaine, which I’m very excited about and think holds real promise, is at the point of being abandoned. We tried to negotiate with Mr Lotsof, we asked for a meeting and offered him money and a share. But he doesn’t want that. He wants full control. Lotsof’s ego won’t let anyone else be a part of it. He has poisoned every well.”
On top of the bust-up with Dr Mash, NIDA (the National Institute on Drug Abuse, a branch of the National Institute on Health in Maryland), which has already pumped many millions of dollars in grants into ibogaine research, seems to have gone cold on the whole idea. One of many theories about why this has happened is that there is a “methadone mafia” entrenched in both NIDA and the scientific/medical community that feels deeply threatened by the prospect of a proper cure to addiction. Lotsof himself is not so sure about this conspiracy theory. “Even some of the methadone people are beginning to swing around. The responsible ones would like every tool at their disposal to help people dependent on drugs, but any new technology is met with resistance by the old guard. NIDA had no just cause not to proceed with Ibogaine development. They know full well that in hospital-administered safety studies there would be little chance of medical emergencies, and their concern relating to neurotoxicity has been shown to be nil.”
Dana Beal, AIDs activist, Yippie movement founder and co-author of The Ibogaine Story, feels strongly that NIDA has a problem with Howard Lotsof’s background, that his roots in the counterculture and his ultimately sensible views on the state’s idiotic “war on drugs” make him someone they would rather demonise than help, however good his product. “Things Deborah Mash said to me before we stopped talking indicated that NIDA had a problem with Lotsof. Howard was too close to people like me. ONDCP (the Drug Czar) has been under instructions not to deal with legalizers since mid-93 at least.”
“I spent four years working with Howard Lotsof,” says Frank Vocci, Director of The Medications Development Division at NIDA, who takes great exception to this idea. “There’s no way I would spend several million dollars of taxpayers’ money – and we did – just to basically parry someone off in a clever fashion. I’d tell them flat-out to get lost.”
Though he admits that NIDA is now concentrating on its own specific cocaine-blocking products, Vocci sighs with frustration at the suggestion that ibogaine is being held back to further them. “I’d say the converse is true. It was a major project here, and we gave this our best shot and spent an awful lot of resources and staff time on it we could have spent on something else. In 95 we asked a group of outside clinicians if we should go ahead with this drug. We got nine serious NOs and four tentative YESses. Our current policy is that we will not initiate any research from within the institute, but we will fund research on ibogaine that gets through the peer review process with a fundable score.” …
In a long and fascinating letter to Frank Vocci dated 3/10/95, and released a year later after a Freedom Of Information action was filed, Curtis Wright (Medical Review Officer of the Pilot Drug Staff of the FDA) outlines why – though ibogaine is a very good thing – he feels that NIDA should support but not directly develop it themselves. “Drugs that NIDA develops directly should be, as far as possible, EASY WINS’ where the pharmaceutical development questions are minimal……Ibogaine is too big a job for your team at this time. It may prove a black hole, sucking all your resources down a single venture capital’ project……What is not speculative is that a significant number of members of the public that we serve feel that the drug deserves investigation. You face the problem of deciding how far to expend research dollars funding their desire to see the drug evaluated.”
As a NIDA-approved researcher, Dr Mash noticed the organisation’s change of attitude when, in a last ditch attempt to raise funds for ibogaine research, she applied for a grant to research its use in treating cocaine addiction. “They turned down my grant application, which has never happened to me before, in language that made it clear they didn’t want to know. I wept when I got that, because I didn’t believe we’d see that, and I thought then that ibogaine was dead”. She continues to research and treat with ibogaine at her recently established Healing Visions Institute for Addiction Recovery in the Caribbean but, when trying to get investors for this venture, she found that intellectual property was a real issue, and is now petitioning the court for a designation about the Nor+ patent, “because we feel that Lotsof is not the inventor”.
If ibogaine works so well – and the Mash/Lotsof legal tussle suggests that they know its future potential only too well – corporations and capitalists everywhere should be falling over each other to invest in a slice of the pie. George Soros, the billionaire businessman with an enlightened attitude to US drug policy, regularly sponsors ibogaine seminars in New York, but big business backing is palpably lacking.
“Despite what appears to be a huge market for a drug that could interrupt drug addiction,” says Don Allan, “ibogaine does not fit the profile of a prescription drug that can make money for a pharmaceutical manufacturer. Most prescription drugs are administered daily over a period of weeks, months, or years. Ibogaine is generally used once in a single dose, and then followed up with several months of psychotherapy.”
“Over the last 15 years,” says Lotsof, “I have contacted many of the larger and some middle level pharmaceutical companies, as well as many investment houses and venture capitalists. From capital the answer is a question: Do you have FDA approval? When I respond no, they one-and-all said: ‘No thank you, we’ve been burned before’. There has been and will be very little interest in major companies developing new medications to treat addiction. Addicts are dying at a much faster rate than the general population, and in a country like the U.S. there is a much greater chance of legal actions by the families of those who die, for whatever reason. Thus, when a pharmaceutical company makes a decision on what drug they will develop or not, they must take into consideration the risks related to litigation. The key is legal liability, and a fear of having their medications associated with addiction, treatment or not.”…
Ibogaine is a paradigm shift,” says Ken Alper. “That’s why it’s being resisted. That is consistent with the history of every truly new development in science. The ‘movement’ should be less bitter. That an informal self-help culture of addicts has got this far is quite amazing. These people have no political power, no big industry connections. It takes $20-50 million to bring a drug to the market. They’re halfway through that phase with no sponsor. That’s not bad. And it’s not over yet.”

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Hartford, CT TV discovers Marc Emery Direct Seeds!
Date: September 10, 2003 at 1:48:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dunno if these were Connecticut State Troopers, but they are a SCARY Lot.
Perfectly crisp uniforms, army-issue buzz cuts and hats worn in a perfectly
sterile manner.

AND, they have big 3 ring binders filled with volumes of anti-drug propoganda
tailored to (try, anyways) scare the be-jeezus out of first time teen drug
offenders (10 car pile up, 12 dead and all the glossy photos from the wreck
-“Marijuana is responsible for tradgedies like this” is what I was told.
Trooper Smith didn’t take too kindly to me inquiring as to why the caption said
that the driver responsible had a a blood level of 0.10 (or whatever) of
ALCOHOL! No mention of Marijuana… the evil weed! LOL.

~gamma

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I never cease to be amazed at the ignorance and silliness on the part of the
prohibitionists and their silly press lackies- I only wish they weren’t so
destructive, uncompassionate, judgemental and mean in their silliness.
Peace,
Preston

__________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Hartford, CT TV discovers Marc Emery Direct Seeds!
Date: September 10, 2003 at 12:19:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I never cease to be amazed at the ignorance and silliness on the part of the
prohibitionists and their silly press lackies- I only wish they weren’t so
destructive, uncompassionate, judgemental and mean in their silliness.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Tim Meehan” <tim@ocsarc.org>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <maptalk@mapinc.org>; <drctalk@drcnet.org>;
<ccc-members@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Hartford, CT TV discovers Marc Emery Direct Seeds!

http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=1435834&nav=3YeXHu1q

Video: http://video.wtnh.com/news/2003/sept/clips/09092003-bust.ram

Student tips police to online drug “supermarket”

(Coventry-WTNH, Sept. 9, 2003 7:25 PM) _ It was a minor drug bust but it’s
got a
Connecticut police chief seeing red.

The arrest of a UConn student for growing some weed has lead Coventry
police to
an online supermarket for pot and paraphernalia.

It’s not what this 21-year-old UConn student had growing in his back yard
which
is so shocking but how and where he got it.

You can buy all sorts of things on the internet including the seeds to
grow a
variety of types of marijuana.

It began with an abandoned overturned boat floating on Coventry Lake and a
search for possible drowning victims. But when police found the UConn
students
who were using the boat at their rented house sunday, they were hung over
but
otherwise all right.

“But when police talked to the students about the incident, they made
an…
inadvertent discovery. Marijuana plant growing on the deck.”

21-year-old Henry Stirble was charged with several misdeamnors. No big
deal
says police chief Beau Thurneauer except…

“During the conversation about where did these come from the person who
was
arrested said I got them on line like everybody knows you can get
marijuana
seeds on line.”

That’s what stuck in the craw of Chief Thurnauer.

“We talk all the time about the drug war and cocaine cartels and how
difficult
it is to infiltrate. How difficult it is to apprehend people and in this
case
no one is hiding anything.”

Thurnauer is asking the DEA and U.S. Postal Service to investigate but the
website is based in British Columbia, Canada. It does appear to offer a
smorgishboard of different types of marijuana seeds for sale.

Coventry’s ability to investigate this website is limited.

For that matter so is the DEA’s. It may well depend on whether Canadian
officials are interested in busting up this on line store for the
conoisseur of
Candaian cannabis

<]=———————————————————————–=[

[           Moderated by: Preston Peet |
.drugwar.com           ]
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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:59:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought it might be directed toward me…but I wasn’t sure….I’m fairly new to this list, but from what I’ve seen so far there are lots of discussions that go in all different directions.

Yes, of course, I am in still in denial and still rationalizing my problem, that’s why I’m still stuck in my addiction.  I did not realize trying to talk through my problems with people who seem very knowledgeable was a problem here.  I even admited…I NEED HELP!  I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!  I am truly trying to work through this.  The post I was replying to said to ponder things that I think may have gotten me here, seek therapy and I was directed to a link dealing with childhood memories from an Ibogaine experience.  I am working on all these things.  I am very new in the process of researching and deciding if this is the way for me to work through my addiction and better myself.

The post also implied I may be making my daughter unable to do things or think for herself by my parenting, so I was explaining my feelings and thoughts on that.  I was NOT trying to forget or change the subject totally by clarifying what I’d meant.  Sorry, I got so wordy and wasted so many paragraphs working through it and bouncing my ideas off the group. If I remember correctly it was 1, not 4 emails that discussed my daughter though and quite a few less than 50 paragraphs.  Sorry to bore anyone.  I suppose I thought it was an intelligent and thought provoking conversation that seemed to naturally steer in the direction of how people are parented when Bill and I started discussing attachment.

Was I really supposed to come here and start this journey having all the answers?  I thought my past experience was relevant to how I got here today. Wouldn’t I need to learn and expand my mind to work through this?  Might that not even require sharing my thoughts, feelings and opinions on things?

I know it’s hard sometimes to understand tone or to really know a whole person by a couple of emails, but I feel like I’ve broken a rule or done something wrong and I was just trying to share my thoughts.  I’m just trying to find out how I can dig myself out of the hell hole I’m in and live more at peace.

Jennifer

crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

Jennifer I think the topics change frequently and flow into each other.
Reading all your very long, articulate messages makes me wonder if you
were looking for the denial list or the child rearing list instead ;-
)

I understand you love your daughter but you have now spent 4 messages
and no less then 50 paragraphs on it.

De-nile it’s not just a river in Egypt. Yes I stole that from the NA
meetings I went to, I took what I found useful 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:26:50 -0700 Jennifer wrote:
>Was this post directed to me because of my latest comments? or the
>discussion in general changing course and no longer referring to
>the old topic?
>
>
>Jennifer
>
>”sandra .” wrote:
>the more i read, the more i realise this is all one big red herring…
>
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: Jennifer
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are
>sicker than normal
>
>> Maybe I should clarify…lol…I do not believe I am overcompensating
>by created a dependent monster!! 😉 She does almost everything for
>herself. Dresses, cleans up, pottying, bathing (with help) feeds
>herself, pours her own drinks, helps clean, etc. Of course, I still
>have to assist with some things, but she’s doing great!! 🙂
>>
>> She’s actually not clingy or needy, just loves and needs her Mommy
>a lot right now, which is completely normal at this age. Up until
>age 2, I believe the primary goal is attachment. Children will naturally
>pull away at around 2 years (that’s their job) if we let them!! :-
>) Strong bonds and loving and trust are what my little girl needs
>right now. I don’t think being sensitive to these needs is over doing
>it.
>>
>> She’s also close with her Daddy and sister’s and brothers, etc.
>She will stay with them with no problem if necessary. Because we
>nursed from birth it was much easier to nurse in bed for the 2nd
>half of the night. So, some might feel it’s a bad habit that she
>sleeps with us at almost 2 for the second half of the night, but
>we feel it’s what she must need and it’s all she knows, so yes, it’s
>a habit for now.
>>
>> I’ve always felt very strongly about crying it out, (now I know
>why) so we’ve not done this with her. We have tried some gentle ways
>to teach her to sleep all night on her own, but she’s not there yet.
>So, for now, we’re ok with it. My husband and I have our time alone
>and she gets some practice sleeping by herself. I don’t think when
>she is a teen she’ll still want to sleep with us, so I’m SURE she’ll
>outgrow it when the need is no longer there.
>>
>> She’s helpful, loving, well adjusted, secure and very full of
>indepedence, this is one little girl with a mind of her own. I try
>to follow her lead, while setting limits when appropriate or necessary.
>Meeting her needs is not the same as letting her run the show or
>walk all over me, in my opinion.
>> And if I’m wrong in my parenting?? Well, 20-30 years from now
>she’ll blame me for it, I suppose, lol, but for now my instincts
>tell me this is best we can do for her.
>>
>> I will read the Ibogaine experience link you sent. I really hope
>I can find out enough that will make me comfortable to go through
>with this experience myself, because I believe I would benefit greatly
>from it.
>>
>> Thanks again for reading and for your input!! If I got a little
>long winded, I apoligize. Sometimes I am on the defensive since my
>mother seems to think I should have plunked my spoiled baby in the
>crib 20 mo. ago and trained her to sleep. I guess I get a little
>worked up! lol
>>
>> Jennifer
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Ross wrote:
>>
>> There is a risk that you could be inadvertantly training her
>> by example to not take care of herself.
>>
>> > My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-
>Out
>> > or sleep training. …
>>
>> This could be it, on top of the long labor.
>>
>> > … obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too
>late
>> > to go back and change things now. How can I know if this is
>why
>> > I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure? And what can I do
>to
>> > make it go away? How can I help myself heal my addictions with
>>
>> > this knowledge? I don’t know…
>>
>> One approach would be to see how it sits with you over time. Therapy
>> and/or meditation could be useful, I suspect.
>>
>> Here’s a paper on ibo in therapy, where as I remember some memories
>> of parents are brought up:
>>
>> http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:36:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jennifer I think the topics change frequently and flow into each other.
Reading all your very long, articulate messages makes me wonder if you
were looking for the denial list or the child rearing list instead ;-
)

I understand you love your daughter but you have now spent 4 messages
and no less then 50 paragraphs on it.

De-nile it’s not just a river in Egypt. Yes I stole that from the NA
meetings I went to, I took what I found useful 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:26:50 -0700 Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com> wrote:
Was this post directed to me because of my latest comments? or the
discussion in general changing course and no longer referring to
the old topic?

Jennifer

“sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net> wrote:
the more i read, the more i realise this is all one big red herring…

—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are
sicker than normal

Maybe I should clarify…lol…I do not believe I am overcompensating
by created a dependent monster!! 😉 She does almost everything for
herself. Dresses, cleans up, pottying, bathing (with help) feeds
herself, pours her own drinks, helps clean, etc. Of course, I still
have to assist with some things, but she’s doing great!! 🙂

She’s actually not clingy or needy, just loves and needs her Mommy
a lot right now, which is completely normal at this age. Up until
age 2, I believe the primary goal is attachment. Children will naturally
pull away at around 2 years (that’s their job) if we let them!! :-
) Strong bonds and loving and trust are what my little girl needs
right now. I don’t think being sensitive to these needs is over doing
it.

She’s also close with her Daddy and sister’s and brothers, etc.
She will stay with them with no problem if necessary. Because we
nursed from birth it was much easier to nurse in bed for the 2nd
half of the night. So, some might feel it’s a bad habit that she
sleeps with us at almost 2 for the second half of the night, but
we feel it’s what she must need and it’s all she knows, so yes, it’s
a habit for now.

I’ve always felt very strongly about crying it out, (now I know
why) so we’ve not done this with her. We have tried some gentle ways
to teach her to sleep all night on her own, but she’s not there yet.
So, for now, we’re ok with it. My husband and I have our time alone
and she gets some practice sleeping by herself. I don’t think when
she is a teen she’ll still want to sleep with us, so I’m SURE she’ll
outgrow it when the need is no longer there.

She’s helpful, loving, well adjusted, secure and very full of
indepedence, this is one little girl with a mind of her own. I try
to follow her lead, while setting limits when appropriate or necessary.
Meeting her needs is not the same as letting her run the show or
walk all over me, in my opinion.
And if I’m wrong in my parenting?? Well, 20-30 years from now
she’ll blame me for it, I suppose, lol, but for now my instincts
tell me this is best we can do for her.

I will read the Ibogaine experience link you sent. I really hope
I can find out enough that will make me comfortable to go through
with this experience myself, because I believe I would benefit greatly
from it.

Thanks again for reading and for your input!! If I got a little
long winded, I apoligize. Sometimes I am on the defensive since my
mother seems to think I should have plunked my spoiled baby in the
crib 20 mo. ago and trained her to sleep. I guess I get a little
worked up! lol

Jennifer

Bill Ross wrote:

There is a risk that you could be inadvertantly training her
by example to not take care of herself.

My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-
Out
or sleep training. …

This could be it, on top of the long labor.

… obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too
late
to go back and change things now. How can I know if this is
why
I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure? And what can I do
to
make it go away? How can I help myself heal my addictions with

this knowledge? I don’t know…

One approach would be to see how it sits with you over time. Therapy
and/or meditation could be useful, I suspect.

Here’s a paper on ibo in therapy, where as I remember some memories
of parents are brought up:

http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html

Bill

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:26:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was this post directed to me because of my latest comments? or the discussion in general changing course and no longer referring to the old topic?

Jennifer

“sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net> wrote:
the more i read, the more i realise this is all one big red herring…

—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

> Maybe I should clarify…lol…I do not believe I am overcompensating by created a dependent monster!! 😉 She does almost everything for herself. Dresses, cleans up, pottying, bathing (with help) feeds herself, pours her own drinks, helps clean, etc. Of course, I still have to assist with some things, but she’s doing great!! 🙂
>
> She’s actually not clingy or needy, just loves and needs her Mommy a lot right now, which is completely normal at this age. Up until age 2, I believe the primary goal is attachment. Children will naturally pull away at around 2 years (that’s their job) if we let them!! 🙂 Strong bonds and loving and trust are what my little girl needs right now. I don’t think being sensitive to these needs is over doing it.
>
> She’s also close with her Daddy and sister’s and brothers, etc. She will stay with them with no problem if necessary. Because we nursed from birth it was much easier to nurse in bed for the 2nd half of the night. So, some might feel it’s a bad habit that she sleeps with us at almost 2 for the second half of the night, but we feel it’s what she must need and it’s all she knows, so yes, it’s a habit for now.
>
> I’ve always felt very strongly about crying it out, (now I know why) so we’ve not done this with her. We have tried some gentle ways to teach her to sleep all night on her own, but she’s not there yet. So, for now, we’re ok with it. My husband and I have our time alone and she gets some practice sleeping by herself. I don’t think when she is a teen she’ll still want to sleep with us, so I’m SURE she’ll outgrow it when the need is no longer there.
>
> She’s helpful, loving, well adjusted, secure and very full of indepedence, this is one little girl with a mind of her own. I try to follow her lead, while setting limits when appropriate or necessary. Meeting her needs is not the same as letting her run the show or walk all over me, in my opinion.
> And if I’m wrong in my parenting?? Well, 20-30 years from now she’ll blame me for it, I suppose, lol, but for now my instincts tell me this is best we can do for her.
>
> I will read the Ibogaine experience link you sent. I really hope I can find out enough that will make me comfortable to go through with this experience myself, because I believe I would benefit greatly from it.
>
> Thanks again for reading and for your input!! If I got a little long winded, I apoligize. Sometimes I am on the defensive since my mother seems to think I should have plunked my spoiled baby in the crib 20 mo. ago and trained her to sleep. I guess I get a little worked up! lol
>
> Jennifer
>
>
>
> Bill Ross wrote:
>
> There is a risk that you could be inadvertantly training her
> by example to not take care of herself.
>
> > My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-Out
> > or sleep training. …
>
> This could be it, on top of the long labor.
>
> > … obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too late
> > to go back and change things now. How can I know if this is why
> > I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure? And what can I do to
> > make it go away? How can I help myself heal my addictions with
> > this knowledge? I don’t know…
>
> One approach would be to see how it sits with you over time. Therapy
> and/or meditation could be useful, I suspect.
>
> Here’s a paper on ibo in therapy, where as I remember some memories
> of parents are brought up:
>
> http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————
> Do you Yahoo!?
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal ???
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:13:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi! I would send this in private email but wanted to
post since you did and I posted my first msg.

I wanted to say I loved your message and thank you for
writing it! If you are the one running iboga therapy
house then I think that’s great!

I think people try to be constructive in different
ways. This is the one list I haven’t ever signed off
from even if I go through phases where I don’t read it
very much then go back to it, because it has a big
group of very smart people and most of the smartest
ones have stayed clean using their own ways.

My reply to Marc was said I hope in a constructive
way, I really do not like to argue with anyone but I
don’t think I’m alone since there were alot of others
who replied who I think felt the same as I do. The
feeling is that junkies are in some way worse then
everyone and should be ‘normal’ which I agree with you
is whatever that means, I don’t know.

Thanks for your post, you have a really great
attitude! 🙂

Carla B

— “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net> wrote:
Whoa, ok, where to begin?

Well first off, I don’t beleive there is any such
thing as “normal”. In our ignorant human way of
trying to understand life and our place in it we
have been taught to break things up into
classifications and stereotypes and add definitions
to them in hopes of coming up with some grand
unified theory of how “it” all works. Nah, I don’t
personally agree with this tactic. I prefer to see
all things as interconnected and don’t pretend to
offer any theory of how anything really works. In my
mind the truth is relative and we each have our own
truth and unique perspective to offer to the grand
unfolding of things. That to me, is the beauty of
“it” even if it’s not always beautiful…

In my personal opinion, I started work with this
project because of a genuine desire to learn…about
plants, psychoactives, addiction, the human
condition and the positive influences that we can
have on eachother if we so choose. And that choice
to me, is the most important aspect of working with
Iboga. It is merely a tool to be employed by those
who choose to change their lifestyle, not a cure for
sickness or dis-ease but rather a catalyst for those
who want to try it.

There is no reason to classify and lump together
those who choose to use as sick or not ‘normal’. We
have no right, any of us, to make assumptions about
what is right/wrong, good/bad or other…

It is this premise that led me to choose this field
of work, not a desire to heal the sick out of some
need to feel like a superhero. IMHO harm reduction
efforts are supposed to remove the need for these
definitions, which in themselves are perhaps more
harmful than the drugs and even prohibition itself.

The only thing I can say for sure is that I have
seen a positive effect on all those who have come to
the ITH to try Iboga, even those who have left
feeling weak. That’s the main point. Evaluation of
our program lies not in being able to discover the
’causes or effects’ of drug use per se as it is
different for everyone but rather the effect an
experience with iboga has on people’s lives.

Perhaps, being the screener, evaluator and director
for the program, it may have something to do with MY
choices that affect our ‘statistics’, but then again
I don’t really beleive in statistics…

All of this is interesting to me and it is good to
see the responses that you all have (there are
indeed some mighty intelligent folks on this forum)
though I personally would like to see this all from
a solution oriented perspective (if there really is
a solution???) instead of a deficit based one. We
could all spend years talking about those years that
have been problematic for us and of course that is
part of the process but we should also have a good
look at what’s really happening here ’cause it’s
definately worth it (IMO, of course).

I think it’s important to be able to express
ourselves and our opinion and Marc of course is
entitled to his but remember that the only truth to
be found is that which comes from within you and
even then it can be shifty.

I’m sad to hear that some of you are afraid to try
an Ibo session with us based on this discussion.
Please think about the lack of context and tone in
email communications. I work with Marc because I
like what he does and am willing to facilitate and
participate on this project. We don’t always see eye
to eye but that doesn’t deter me from trying to
understand where he’s personally coming from also.
It’s a unique challenge that has taught me alot in
the last few months about the true work of a
facilitator – communication.

We all have our personal opinions and are all
certainly entitled to express them, the beauty lies
in how we each contribute to the grand story…

Thanks for reading this hella long post,

-Sandra Karpetas


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From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 8:58:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the more i read, the more i realise this is all one big red herring…

—– Original Message —–
From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Maybe I should clarify…lol…I do not believe I am overcompensating by created a dependent monster!! 😉  She does almost everything for herself.  Dresses, cleans up, pottying, bathing (with help) feeds herself, pours her own drinks, helps clean, etc.  Of course, I still have to assist with some things, but she’s doing great!!  🙂

She’s actually not clingy or needy, just loves and needs her Mommy a lot right now, which is completely normal at this age.  Up until age 2, I believe the primary goal is attachment.  Children will naturally pull away at around 2 years (that’s their job) if we let them!!  🙂  Strong bonds and loving and trust are what my little girl needs right now.  I don’t think being sensitive to these needs is over doing it.

She’s also close with her Daddy and sister’s and brothers, etc.  She will stay with them with no problem if necessary.  Because we nursed from birth it was much easier to nurse in bed for the 2nd half of the night.  So, some might feel it’s a bad habit that she sleeps with us at almost 2 for the second half of the night, but we feel it’s what she must need and it’s all she knows, so yes, it’s a habit for now.

I’ve always felt very strongly about crying it out, (now I know why) so we’ve not done this with her.  We have tried some gentle ways to teach her to sleep all night on her own, but she’s not there yet.  So, for now, we’re ok with it.   My husband and I have our time alone and she gets some practice sleeping by herself.  I don’t think when she is a teen she’ll still want to sleep with us, so I’m SURE she’ll outgrow it when the need is no longer there.

She’s helpful, loving, well adjusted, secure and very full of indepedence, this is one little girl with a mind of her own.  I try to follow her lead, while setting limits when appropriate or necessary.  Meeting her needs is not the same as letting her run the show or walk all over me, in my opinion.
And if I’m wrong in my parenting??  Well, 20-30 years from now she’ll blame me for it, I suppose, lol, but for now my instincts tell me this is best we can do for her.

I will read the Ibogaine experience link you sent. I really hope I can find out enough that will make me comfortable to go through with this experience myself, because I believe I would benefit greatly from it.

Thanks again for reading and for your input!!  If I got a little long winded, I apoligize.  Sometimes I am on the defensive since my mother seems to think I should have plunked my spoiled baby in the crib 20 mo. ago and trained her to sleep.  I guess I get a little worked up! lol

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:

There is a risk that you could be inadvertantly training her
by example to not take care of herself.

My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-Out
or sleep training. …

This could be it, on top of the long labor.

… obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too late
to go back and change things now. How can I know if this is why
I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure? And what can I do to
make it go away? How can I help myself heal my addictions with
this knowledge? I don’t know…

One approach would be to see how it sits with you over time. Therapy
and/or meditation could be useful, I suspect.

Here’s a paper on ibo in therapy, where as I remember some memories
of parents are brought up:

http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html

Bill

———————————
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software

_______________________________________________
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Powered by Outblaze

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 8:44:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would just like to make clear that even though my bio-father wasn’t around when i was a child, i do not consider that in any way a reason for my poor choices.  I would consider mis-information the main cause of my decent into worse drugs.  The anti-drug special interest simply don’t have the money to not resort to scare tacticts.  12 step groups are guilty of this too.  I was in NA for 3 years, sponsored people and all that and of course thought i was well informed.  Drugs are not the same and they should be treated seperatly.  I just don’t like to see people posting incorrect reasons for how and why I became addicted to opioids.  I consider myself, and always have, very lucky for my family situation because i was able to have 3 dads and 3 moms (counting step parants) and i feel i was able to learn allot more then i would have with only two.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003, 9:28 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

In a message dated 9/7/03 6:41:49 PM, marc@cannabisculture.com writes:

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of “childhood traumas relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a statistical way.  I might
suggest that in your screening process you intake some patients who had quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two groups.

Howard

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal ???
Date: September 9, 2003 at 8:49:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whoa, ok, where to begin?

Well first off, I don’t beleive there is any such thing as “normal”. In our ignorant human way of trying to understand life and our place in it we have been taught to break things up into classifications and stereotypes and add definitions to them in hopes of coming up with some grand unified theory of how “it” all works. Nah, I don’t personally agree with this tactic. I prefer to see all things as interconnected and don’t pretend to offer any theory of how anything really works. In my mind the truth is relative and we each have our own truth and unique perspective to offer to the grand unfolding of things. That to me, is the beauty of “it” even if it’s not always beautiful…

In my personal opinion, I started work with this project because of a genuine desire to learn…about plants, psychoactives, addiction, the human condition and the positive influences that we can have on eachother if we so choose. And that choice to me, is the most important aspect of working with Iboga. It is merely a tool to be employed by those who choose to change their lifestyle, not a cure for sickness or dis-ease but rather a catalyst for those who want to try it.

There is no reason to classify and lump together those who choose to use as sick or not ‘normal’. We have no right, any of us, to make assumptions about what is right/wrong, good/bad or other…

It is this premise that led me to choose this field of work, not a desire to heal the sick out of some need to feel like a superhero. IMHO harm reduction efforts are supposed to remove the need for these definitions, which in themselves are perhaps more harmful than the drugs and even prohibition itself.

The only thing I can say for sure is that I have seen a positive effect on all those who have come to the ITH to try Iboga, even those who have left feeling weak. That’s the main point. Evaluation of our program lies not in being able to discover the ’causes or effects’ of drug use per se as it is different for everyone but rather the effect an experience with iboga has on people’s lives.

Perhaps, being the screener, evaluator and director for the program, it may have something to do with MY choices that affect our ‘statistics’, but then again I don’t really beleive in statistics…

All of this is interesting to me and it is good to see the responses that you all have (there are indeed some mighty intelligent folks on this forum) though I personally would like to see this all from a solution oriented perspective (if there really is a solution???) instead of a deficit based one. We could all spend years talking about those years that have been problematic for us and of course that is part of the process but we should also have a good look at what’s really happening here ’cause it’s definately worth it (IMO, of course).

I think it’s important to be able to express ourselves and our opinion and Marc of course is entitled to his but remember that the only truth to be found is that which comes from within you and even then it can be shifty.

I’m sad to hear that some of you are afraid to try an Ibo session with us based on this discussion. Please think about the lack of context and tone in email communications. I work with Marc because I like what he does and am willing to facilitate and participate on this project. We don’t always see eye to eye but that doesn’t deter me from trying to understand where he’s personally coming from also. It’s a unique challenge that has taught me alot in the last few months about the true work of a facilitator – communication.

We all have our personal opinions and are all certainly entitled to express them, the beauty lies in how we each contribute to the grand story…

Thanks for reading this hella long post,

-Sandra Karpetas


_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net

Powered by Outblaze

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Attachment…was Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 8:21:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe I should clarify…lol…I do not believe I am overcompensating by created a dependent monster!! 😉  She does almost everything for herself.  Dresses, cleans up, pottying, bathing (with help) feeds herself, pours her own drinks, helps clean, etc.  Of course, I still have to assist with some things, but she’s doing great!!  🙂

She’s actually not clingy or needy, just loves and needs her Mommy a lot right now, which is completely normal at this age.  Up until age 2, I believe the primary goal is attachment.  Children will naturally pull away at around 2 years (that’s their job) if we let them!!  🙂  Strong bonds and loving and trust are what my little girl needs right now.  I don’t think being sensitive to these needs is over doing it.

She’s also close with her Daddy and sister’s and brothers, etc.  She will stay with them with no problem if necessary.  Because we nursed from birth it was much easier to nurse in bed for the 2nd half of the night.  So, some might feel it’s a bad habit that she sleeps with us at almost 2 for the second half of the night, but we feel it’s what she must need and it’s all she knows, so yes, it’s a habit for now.

I’ve always felt very strongly about crying it out, (now I know why) so we’ve not done this with her.  We have tried some gentle ways to teach her to sleep all night on her own, but she’s not there yet.  So, for now, we’re ok with it.   My husband and I have our time alone and she gets some practice sleeping by herself.  I don’t think when she is a teen she’ll still want to sleep with us, so I’m SURE she’ll outgrow it when the need is no longer there.

She’s helpful, loving, well adjusted, secure and very full of indepedence, this is one little girl with a mind of her own.  I try to follow her lead, while setting limits when appropriate or necessary.  Meeting her needs is not the same as letting her run the show or walk all over me, in my opinion.
And if I’m wrong in my parenting??  Well, 20-30 years from now she’ll blame me for it, I suppose, lol, but for now my instincts tell me this is best we can do for her.

I will read the Ibogaine experience link you sent. I really hope I can find out enough that will make me comfortable to go through with this experience myself, because I believe I would benefit greatly from it.

Thanks again for reading and for your input!!  If I got a little long winded, I apoligize.  Sometimes I am on the defensive since my mother seems to think I should have plunked my spoiled baby in the crib 20 mo. ago and trained her to sleep.  I guess I get a little worked up! lol

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:

There is a risk that you could be inadvertantly training her
by example to not take care of herself.

> My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-Out
> or sleep training. …

This could be it, on top of the long labor.

> … obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too late
> to go back and change things now. How can I know if this is why
> I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure? And what can I do to
> make it go away? How can I help myself heal my addictions with
> this knowledge? I don’t know…

One approach would be to see how it sits with you over time. Therapy
and/or meditation could be useful, I suspect.

Here’s a paper on ibo in therapy, where as I remember some memories
of parents are brought up:

http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html

Bill

 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 7:54:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jennifer,

She was in labor for 36 hours.

That could set one back as a baby!

I attachment parent my own almost 2 year old daughter.   I nursed,
co-sleep more than half the night, I almost never leave her,
carry her a lot, am very attentive to her needs, never leave her
alone to cry, etc. We’re very close and this is one HUGE reason I
cannot leave (abandon) her and go off to re-hab for any length of
time to heal.

There is a risk that you could be inadvertantly training her
by example to not take care of herself.

My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-Out
or sleep training.  …

This could be it, on top of the long labor.

… obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too late
to go back and change things now.   How can I know if this is why
I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure?  And what can I do to
make it go away?  How can I help myself heal my addictions with
this knowledge?  I don’t know…

One approach would be to see how it sits with you over time. Therapy
and/or meditation could be useful, I suspect.

Here’s a paper on ibo in therapy, where as I remember some memories
of parents are brought up:

http://www.ibogaine.org/naranjo.html

Bill

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 7:23:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi I wanted to say that unlike some on this list I
don’t like to argue with people and I’m not that great
with writing so I can’t write some humongous message
that includes everything in it like you, Patrick,
Gamma and some others on this list are good at.

I also wanted to say that I think what you’re doing to
help people with Iboga Therapy house is a great thing
and I don’t in any way mean to insult you personally
or start a fight.

A lot of what you say about heroin addicts is very
unkind and ignorant. I do not think you’re a dumb
person and I’m sure you’re learning as you go along
and treat more people with ibogaine and I know you
have alot of your own emotional issues with you son.

If you want to use the typical 12 step treatment model
of drug abuse, then you Marc could go to a meeting and
pick up a white chip for being a chronic pot smoker.
Nobody in those rooms would recongise you as any
better or worse then the other junkies, crackheads or
alcoholics. Most ‘treatment pimps’ I have ever been
around would agree also, you have your own drug
problems no matter how you want to view it as a
lifestyle choice.

I am saying this so maybe you think about it. Not to
insult you. I don’t think smoking pot is a problem or
at least not in any way the same as being a junkie on
crack or even a alcoholic which can be very ugly. I am
also one of many here who finally got better when they
got away from the tretment pimps and 12 steps and I do
personally smoke pot and it helps! 🙂

I think you might have a very selective audience of
people who are very poor and desperete and come to you
for help and you have no experience with any other
kind of heroin using people. What you say about heroin
addicts and your understanding of why anyone uses
drugs other then pot is very much missing right now.

Please try to keep a open mind and don’t make all your
patients match your already conceived outcomes. Thank
you!

Carla B

— Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
I too, find your views extreme and limited, Mark.

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction,
and are not solely based on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life
can be dealt with without
serious crutches.

Hmm, that would considered an opinion and not based
on reality at all.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in
YOUR life that you lack
the will to overcome clearly destructive
tendencies? I can find the missing
link in the patients I have administered iboga to.
I can’t see the explantion
in your case.

Ummm, NEWS FLASH: overcoming addiction on
will-power? ROFLMAO!!! thats a good
one! Wish I had thought of that. Ibogaine made
obsolete!

~dh

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 7:11:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

She was in labor for 36 hours.  I attachment parent my own almost 2 year old daughter.   I nursed, co-sleep more than half the night, I almost never leave her, carry her a lot, am very attentive to her needs, never leave her alone to cry, etc. We’re very close and this is one HUGE reason I cannot leave (abandon) her and go off to re-hab for any length of time to heal.   I’ve always been able to stay clean during pregnancy, but in between pregnancies and a better part of my teen and adult life (i’m 31 now) I have fought being on one substance or the other.  Only recently have I become hung up here in my first physical addiction which is the toughest one yet.  I’ve always been able to get away from it, at least temporarily, until now.
I know traditional therapy says, it’s more important for me to take care of my addiction first because I’m not being the best parent I can be, blah blah…However, I don’t feel like abandoning my family for ‘help’ is any less selfish and damaging than quietly taking my pills.  I have a nice home, a stable life and lots of love around me.  I am highly functional addict.  I have no reason to feel so sad inside.  No excuse to be like this. But, it’s so hard to quit, because I’m not having any adverse effects (except in my own mind telling me what a piece of shit I am)  Is it possible to heal without a rehab? I’ve never been comfortable with mainstream treatments for addiction. This is why Ibogaine sounds so attractive to me.  It seems to really get to the root of your problems and help to heal, while keeping most of the w/d symptoms away.  I want to explore my past, my mind and know why I do the things I do and learn how to change my destructive patterns.  My  problems with Ibogaine is that I am scared and I’m in the US and cannot afford money or time wise to be away for long.  I need to not risk my life because I have too much at stake.

I am familiar with John Bowlby’s attachment theory and also many other studies/articles that have discussed attachment at length. I will go read the link you sent now. Thank you. I suppose I feel very strongly and instictively that this is the right way to parent.  It just feels right to me and to my baby, I am certain!!  🙂

My Mom was always and still is big on letting a baby Cry-it-Out or sleep training.  Are you familiar with a particular article (I wish I could find the link) that talks about what happens to an infant left alone in a crib to cry?  It’s very disturbing.  I  wonder if this could be part of my problem.  During the first year, I hadn’t thought of it until now, but I’m CERTAIN I was left in my crib to cry myself to sleep or cry if 4 hours hadn’t passed and it wasn’t my ‘feeding’ time.  A baby’s first year is the time they develop trust and intimacy and if I couldn’t count on my parents then, I suppose this could have scarred me and unconciously still hurt me today.  I have more issues that really seem to make sense in relation to this ‘hurt’ I endured as an infant.

I know people thought it was the right way to do things back then, but I really feel this is a form of child abuse, well neglect maybe.  Either way, obviously my mother didn’t mean to harm me and it’s too late to go back and change things now.   How can I know if this is why I’ve always felt alone, needy and insecure?  And what can I do to make it go away?  How can I help myself heal my addictions with this knowledge?  I don’t know…

Anyway, thanks for taking time to try to figure things out with me…sorry I got so long and kind of off track with this, I guess I had more to say than I thought!! lol

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
Jennifer,

> My mother has said she never smoked or drank while pregnant with me,
> which I believe because she’s never been a smoker and didn’t drink
> much until the last few years, now she’s a big time Friday night
> drinker. She did have a long labor with me…

How long?

> … But, still, nothing so awful and nothing that doesn’t happen to
> many kids who don’t turn to drugs! I do remember even as a child
> feeling alone very often though.

Feeling alone may reflect on your relationship to your parents. My
understanding is that if the parental bond is strong, it protects
one from such feelings. You may want to read about Attachment Theory,
e.g. a search on Google yields

http://www.personalityresearch.org/attachment.html

Once I tried reading the latest bible of the field, something like
Handbook of Attachment Theory – I recommend skipping this, and suspect
that the writings of the originator, John Bowlby, are more readable.

Bill Ross

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 6:42:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jennifer,

My mother has said she never smoked or drank while pregnant with me,
which I believe because she’s never been a smoker and didn’t drink
much until the last few years, now she’s a big time Friday night
drinker.  She did have a long labor with me…

How long?

… But, still, nothing so awful and nothing that doesn’t happen to
many kids who don’t turn to drugs!  I do remember even as a child
feeling alone very often though.

Feeling alone may reflect on your relationship to your parents. My
understanding is that if the parental bond is strong, it protects
one from such feelings. You may want to read about Attachment Theory,
e.g. a search on Google yields

http://www.personalityresearch.org/attachment.html

Once I tried reading the latest bible of the field, something like
Handbook of Attachment Theory – I recommend skipping this, and suspect
that the writings of the originator, John Bowlby, are more readable.

Bill Ross

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 6:24:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I too, find your views extreme and limited, Mark.

A multitude of factors are involved in addiction, and are not solely based on
dysfunctional, absent or abusive parents.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with without
serious crutches.

Hmm, that would considered an opinion and not based on reality at all.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you lack
the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the missing
link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the explantion
in your case.

Ummm, NEWS FLASH: overcoming addiction on will-power? ROFLMAO!!! thats a good
one! Wish I had thought of that. Ibogaine made obsolete!

~dh

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 5:57:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill,
My mother has said she never smoked or drank while pregnant with me, which I believe because she’s never been a smoker and didn’t drink much until the last few years, now she’s a big time Friday night drinker.  She did have a long labor with me…
I wasn’t separated ever from my parents until I moved about at 17, except for a very occasional weekend.  My mother did go to work when I was seven years old, after staying home with me.  I don’t remember feeling particularly traumatized about it though.  I do remember seeing some classroom mom’s (first grade helpers) that were very involved and had a twinge of jealously there, wishing my Mom were like that.  So, maybe I do hold some resentment over her leaving me??  But, still, nothing so awful and nothing that doesn’t happen to many kids who don’t turn to drugs!  I do remember even as a child feeling alone very often though.

Jennifer

Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu> wrote:
> I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents ..
> Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still
> always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue
> to try to fill up with pills.

Any indication of birth trauma? Mother drinking or smoking when
pregnant? Separation from parents in 1st year of life?

Bill Ross

 

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From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 5:39:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents ..
Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still
always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue
to try to fill up with pills.

Any indication of birth trauma? Mother drinking or smoking when
pregnant? Separation from parents in 1st year of life?

Bill Ross

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 4:10:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 01:11:40PM -0500], [Tommy] wrote:

| Patrick Kroupa could probably answer your question on the safe use of
| heroin than anyone I have observed on this list.  He seems
| to have about broadest and most enlightened knowledge of drugs and
| possible use of them.  I understand cocaine has certain inherent dangers

Hey, thanks for your kind words.  I have spent a lifetime doing my research!

Mmmmmmm.  BIOASSAY!

Anywaze, heroin (and opiates/opioids in general), do NO damage whatsoever
to any cell in the body.  Every time you light up a cigarette or drink a
beer, you’re in the process of killing yourself a lot faster, than by
using junk.

The problem with opiates/opioids is — of course — tolerance, physical
dependence, and eventual habituation (i.e., well, I’m a junkie).

What wears you out and tears you down, is the lifestyle associated with
being a junkie; and most of the health risks are inherent with any
substance you are forced to purchase on the black market.

‘Cuz, what’s actually in your bag of dope, and where did it come from…?

To give a fast example, in NYC the most common recipe for what lands in
the little glassine bags with the stamps on ’em, is: quinine, Dalmane and
heroin.

Or, rat poison, Dalmane and heroin.  And noap, that’s NOT an urban legend.
I’ve watched this done too many times to count … and then proceeded to
bang up those very bags.  El Dominican rat poison — available at de
corner bodega, in a big-ass carton for $2 bucks — contains strychnine.
Strychnine has a nice rush.  People confuse getting a rush, with high
heroin content (pure heroin has no rush whatsoever.  Even if you mainline
it.  Morphine and hydromorphone have a cool pins and needles rush, but not
junk).

So, the question becomes … if you’re bangin’ 3-5 bundles a day.
Nevermind the heroin, but how much OTHER SHIT are you dumping into your
veins…?

And … alla that being said, NYC — which is the largest RETAIL heroin
marketplace on Earth — has pretty good heroin.  The west coast, Mexico,
Seattle, etc, which have tar … well, fucking forget it.

Thusly; yeah, bangin’ dilaudids or oxys amounts to harm reduction.  You at
least have a pretty good idea of what you’re starting with, and can filter
out most of the eXtra crap.

| Also, there was a Surgeon, Chief of surgery, at a very prestigious
| clinic, who was famous as a world renowned innovative surgeon
| who used certain clean pure drugs daily for something like 30 years
| with no adverse affects.  Course, you will see very little of
| this kind of news published in the U.S.

Yup, that’d be William Halsted.  The “father of modern surgery,” and one
of the founders of Johns Hopkins medical school.  He was sprung for most
of his life, and certainly performed thousands of operations while under
the influence of morphine.

laterS,
Patrick

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 4:21:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I feel like I”m very willing to look inside myself and learn.  I am a very open person.  I guess I’m just not ready to let go of my crutch that makes me feel like superwife/supermom, etc.  I fear going through the pain and discomfort of w/d only to return and have to do it again.  I’m so sick of the cycle, yet I want my life back.  So, I guess I need to figure out how to mature my ego?  I am tired of pills running my life and alternately pissed that it’s not OK to self-medicate if I am happier on them!!  I wouldn’t have so much a problem with it since my mind and body seem to work so much better with these except over the years I’m needing more and more to get the same effect.  I need help.

Jennifer

Only when the ego,
the false concept of the self, is sufficiently mature enough
to turn these avoidance strategies around and say “I WANT to
look”, “I WANT to feel” can the addiction really begin to be
dealt with.

Nick

ps – Halleluliah breaks down to Halle (Hell); Lu (lights); Li
(path); Jah (God). That’s to say it actually means – Hell
lights the road to God, which is the same as the above.

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From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 4:14:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder about myself also Marc.  I had a good childhood, 2 loving, bioligical married parents and two siblings.  Always had what I needed and most of what I wanted, yet I’ve still always had a feeling something is missing, a hole, that I continue to try to fill up with pills.  I am hoping to try Ibogaine in a clinical setting in the Spring to help with the physical w/d and also to find out why I feel this way and how I can stay off for good, but I must it admit, being unfamiliar with Ibogaine, scares me!!!

Jennifer

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Allison,

The balanced childhood with two loving, compassionate biological parents provides confidence, stability, and warm environment where a child grows up confident of their self, their future.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with without serious crutches.

I believe the number of drug addicted individuals who had the benefit of two loving, biologically connected (to the child) parents who were present and non-violent is extremely rare.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you lack the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the missing link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the explantion in your case.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

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From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 4:03:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

However; somewhere between 50 and 100 million individuals, counting familial
and all other human victims have been destroyed by the DRUG WAR;  More than
a trillioin dollars have been wasted on the DRUG WAR!!!

Tommy Goodson
—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Ross” <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

No other terror campaign in history has been as destructive in humanity
and resources!!!

I assume this refers to 9/11-type terror, however for some
perspective:

Some 40 million people died in internal purges and famine
under Stalin (plus more during WWII because he had gutted
the Soviet military leadership).

Even more died under Mao’s leadership.

Bill Ross

From: “Angie Sadler” <angie.sadler1@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ordinary Speak”
Date: September 9, 2003 at 3:49:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gamma,

Thanks for your help and advice. You are the only person on the list to
reply. I think that I am wasting my time on the list, and will remove
myself. I have read all I can about ibogaine, and to be honest it scares the
hell out of me. It was just a desperate attempt to get my life together. I
will find another way, but thanks again for your help, much appreciated.
Angie.


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 – Release Date: 01/09/2003

From: Nick Sandberg <nicks22@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 3:27:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original message —-
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:25:03 +1200 (New Zealand Standard
Time)
From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood
theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine
childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other
siblings.  I went to a private school which cost
lots and had a good education, my partner went to a
state boys school and did an apprenticeship in
painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its
a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage,
and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money
on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for
a few years but that was even worse cos we just
built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the
money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage
where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to
go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the
time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start
doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to
say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do
with your circle of friends or the places you put
yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone
you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in
your own environment.  Its only when you look
outside that comfort zone that you realise that its
different and other peoples don’t share the same
opinion……   Allison

IMO, about the only thing junkies could be said to share is a
fundamental desire to avoid the re-experience of pain. Or,
perhaps better, a fundamental desire to avoid the possibility
of re-experiencing. And this condition is pretty much endemic
in humanity. Everyone avoids, and the way in which they do so
becomes “formatted” into the individual’s mind. Addicts are
those who chose, through biological predisposition or one of
a variety of environmental factors, to use drugs to do this.
Pretty soon even very vaguest subconscious stimuli picked up
by the brain will serve to trigger the desire to use, or the
desire to avoid by whatever other means. Only when the ego,
the false concept of the self, is sufficiently mature enough
to turn these avoidance strategies around and say “I WANT to
look”, “I WANT to feel” can the addiction really begin to be
dealt with.

Nick

ps – Halleluliah breaks down to Halle (Hell); Lu (lights); Li
(path); Jah (God). That’s to say it actually means – Hell
lights the road to God, which is the same as the above.

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 3:28:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison,

The balanced childhood with two loving, compassionate biological parents provides confidence, stability, and warm environment where a child grows up confident of their self, their future.

From there, the slings and arrows of everyday life can be dealt with without serious crutches.

I believe the number of drug addicted individuals who had the benefit of two loving, biologically connected (to the child) parents who were present and non-violent is extremely rare.

In any case, whats your excuse? What is missing in YOUR life that you lack the will to overcome clearly destructive tendencies? I can find the missing link in the patients I have administered iboga to. I can’t see the explantion in your case.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: Highlander35739@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 2:42:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry marc but i strongly, infact very strongly as in it could of been me that wrote his post our experiences of things/life seem so similair. Life , drug use dont neccesarily have to be in a fixed scientific , hypothesis type of proving or understanding. Some things are beyond us. I spent most of my late teens in young offenders institutions where i smoked cannabis read castaneda thought about life, religion, philosiphy and human nature. I’ve smoked pot everyday of my life since the age of sixteen (bar maybe 10% for dry spells-too many lucky cops)but did not start to use heroin until the age of 24 and only because of severe circumstances. I had just been sentenced to 6 years inprisonment for possesion with intent to supply (lsd) on getting to prison and doing the rounds making friends and shooting the shit did i realise that if i wanted parole which meant getting out after 3 years or not getting it and maybe doing 4+ i would have to not smoke pot . As pot is detectable in the urine for long periods of time. So being a downer man and the speed it leaves the trace in the urine and being the place was full of it and everyone was at it i tried it that was six years go and all you fellow users will understand whats happened since then –not good. Basically the scottish prison system and H.M government have ruined my life i now have no friends am disowned by my family and life is a misery im on medication but i top up using as my Doc wont give the amounts of DHC i need to hold me but at least financially im saving a fortune so Preston Peace my brother and marc go back to your laboratory and have another talk with young Dexter LOL///Highlander35739@aol.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 2:26:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No other terror campaign in history has been as destructive in humanity
and resources!!!

I assume this refers to 9/11-type terror, however for some
perspective:

Some 40 million people died in internal purges and famine
under Stalin (plus more during WWII because he had gutted
the Soviet military leadership).

Even more died under Mao’s leadership.

Bill Ross

From: “Tommy” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 2:11:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick Kroupa could probably answer your question on the safe use of heroin than anyone I have observed on this list.  He seems
to have about broadest and most enlightened knowledge of drugs and possible use of them.  I understand cocaine has certain inherent dangers in spite of its purity.  Their are other very articulate and informed contributors to this list who can give better info.

I believe some countries have legalized heroin and retained tight control and management of its distribution and use.  I believe
60-Minutes had a very unusual news-magazine story several years ago about a family whose daughter who looked to be her earlier
20’s work a regular user of legal heroin which she obtained daily at a legal dispensing center.  The interview included the family.
It seemed to be working harmoniously for all concerned.

Also, there was a Surgeon, Chief of surgery, at a very prestigious clinic, who was famous as a world renowned innovative surgeon
who used certain clean pure drugs daily for something like 30 years with no adverse affects.  Course, you will see very little of
this kind of news published in the U.S.   I suppose the Drug War takes credit for that kind of censorship.  That’s why it was such
a surprise to see the 60-Minute segment displayed on T.V.  I am sure the Drug Warriors, DEA, tried to stop its showing.

Here in the U.S. they want nothing broadcast that is honest and favorable about any drug;  Marijuana has been totally demonized
for generations as far back Harry Anslinger, the very original Drug Czar appointed some time in the 30’s, who was also responsible
for the original poison disinformation, malicious, “Reefer Madness”!!!

President Richard Nixon perpetuated the rotten propaganda by repudiating his appointed special commission for the study of
Marijuana, the Shaffer Commission, when they released their findings recommending legalization of Marijuana,  They released
their conclusions in Nov. 1973.  From that day Marijuana has been notoriously stigmatized.  A weed you heard very little or nothing of before 1973.  Nixon stampeded the nation into a national terror campaign that is still rampaging destructively today.

No other terror campaign in history has been as destructive in humanity and resources!!!  There was very little notoriety or fear
of Marijuana prior to 1973.  Since then it seems 1/4 to 1/2 of our 2.2 million incarcerated prisoners are there because of simple
Marijuana use and possession  It could only happen in the U.S.

Hope this gives something to rely on.

Tommy Goodson

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 5:43 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry, this isn’t an actual reply, but does anyone else know about the theory of using heroin without additives being OK healthwise.  Reports I read  say that all the harmful effects come from all the junk thats thrown in with it on the street to break it down or in the case of pharmacy pills like morphine sulphate. the glue or chalk etc.  they put in it to make the tablet.  Is that true or not?????  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 8:56:15 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Hey DH

Yes , I agree with you there are differences and we are human and we all
have had problems growing up, each and every one of us have and immunity
system
A person can have a strong one or not.
You can be highly immune to stress and disorders during a life time or
not.
I think it has a lot to do with genetics and will power.

I like to ask if anybody had a session with EEG biofeedback which helped
to recover from addiction?

S.

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 22:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Those are some heavy statistics, Marc.

Stealing roaches out of ash trays and burning your index finger while
smoking
them pales in comparison to prostituting oneself for a fix of smack,
while pus
drips from open absesses on your purple, bloated arms…

Yeah, we’re all human from begining to end (and most of us deserve
whatever
dignity we can scrape out of the barrel), but there are degrees of
seperation.
Another comparison is like the difference between the guy who drinks a
six pack
after work everyday and the guy next door who drinks a fith of vodka
before
noon just to keep the DT’s at bay.

But like my parents told me, that #*@! evil weed destroys your DNA and
leads to
Heroin Addiction and Death(!) And JFK was killed by a lone gunman.

~dh

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
> After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
> I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
> traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
> were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
> put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
> and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
> unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.
>
> Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.
>
> The premise by eldot is incorrect.
>
> Marc Emery
> Iboga House
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>
>
> >>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
> rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
> about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
> stereotyping.
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: Nik <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 10:34:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

very good allison i had a semi normal childhood well anywasy my dad was there and i became an opiate user i dont like the word JUNKIE. i think it has alot to do with what you hold inside i have found that one stereotype thats true alot of the time NOT ALL but opiate users are usually very emotional people very vivid and wild imaginations thats just what i think. cuz i go to methadone clinic and i see the people that are there nthey are nice people not the murderers and robbers and con artist that everyone assimilates w/junkies but once they stop and let htere true self out they go through a change and become open and the ones that resort back to there old way of hiding there emotions and being cynical then of course life sucks and you might as well shoot dope cuz theres one thing that i leatrned from N.A. that helped and the saying is “you are only as sick as your secrets” and it is so true and the thing about allison and her friends thats so true but anyways i hope youi get to meet some more people of a wider part of the using population! cuz right now you couldnt pay me to know a person like you is dosing people you sound very close minded in a brooud sence but then again what do i know! your local tortus Turtle

Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:36:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison wrote >Sorry, this isn’t an actual reply, but does anyone else know
about the theory of using heroin without additives being OK healthwise. <

Look up the 1972 Consumers’ Union Report on Drugs- there’s a lot of info on
this.
From what I’ve read and experienced, opiates alone without cut are clean and
one of the least toxic substances one can add to their body chemisty. This
isn’t saying it isn’t dangerous (especially in today’s prohibition/hate and
descriminate against junkies mental and social states) and that you won’t
risk physical “dependence” as everyone here already knows, but the opiates
themselves, sans poisons, are apparently very clean and undamaging to the
human body.
I don’t have any links at hand, but this is what I think, and have found
to be the case, from my own reading and life.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Sorry, this isn’t an actual reply, but does anyone else know about the
theory of using heroin without additives being OK healthwise.  Reports I
read  say that all the harmful effects come from all the junk thats thrown
in with it on the street to break it down or in the case of pharmacy pills
like morphine sulphate. the glue or chalk etc.  they put in it to make the
tablet.  Is that true or not?????  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 8:56:15 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Hey DH

Yes , I agree with you there are differences and we are human and we all
have had problems growing up, each and every one of us have and immunity
system
A person can have a strong one or not.
You can be highly immune to stress and disorders during a life time or
not.
I think it has a lot to do with genetics and will power.

I like to ask if anybody had a session with EEG biofeedback which helped
to recover from addiction?

S.

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 22:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Those are some heavy statistics, Marc.

Stealing roaches out of ash trays and burning your index finger while
smoking
them pales in comparison to prostituting oneself for a fix of smack,
while pus
drips from open absesses on your purple, bloated arms…

Yeah, we’re all human from begining to end (and most of us deserve
whatever
dignity we can scrape out of the barrel), but there are degrees of
seperation.
Another comparison is like the difference between the guy who drinks a
six pack
after work everyday and the guy next door who drinks a fith of vodka
before
noon just to keep the DT’s at bay.

But like my parents told me, that #*@! evil weed destroys your DNA and
leads to
Heroin Addiction and Death(!) And JFK was killed by a lone gunman.

~dh

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:31:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison wrote >Everyone must have such different body chemistry.  So many
people love marijuana.  It doesn’t agree with me at all. <

Herein lies the key too I think Allison.
We all have different reactions to different drugs. (and to different
druggies too apparently)
Good luck too btw Allison on your kicking, if you’ll please excuse my
lateness with the well wishing.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

Everyone must have such different body chemistry.  So many people love
marijuana.  It doesn’t agree with me at all.  Makes me want to curl up and
go to sleep or makes me paranoid while everyone else I know has a ball and
can smoke at breakfast and then doddle off to work…Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 4:19:45 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

you mean, as in using ibogaine to “kick” marijuana?
I don’t have personal experience with ibogaine, only with ibogaine
experienced folk, but everything I’ve so far seen seems to point to the two
being quite conducive to one another, not antagonistic.
I’d welcome any other perspective.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

I note I haven’t seen cannabis mentioned in the list of ibogaine detox
effective substances. Is there any personal experience or study regarding
this?

Just a question, new here…
Peace,
Jamilah

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allan Clear” <clear@harmreduction.org>
Subject: Re: [digital@phantom.com: Ibogaine Panel]
Date: September 9, 2003 at 9:09:59 AM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

Hi Patrick,
I’ll probably be out of town the 8th and 9th. I have a trailer on a
mountain. What about early breakfast on the 7th?
Allan
—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: “Allan Clear” <clear@harmreduction.org>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [digital@phantom.com: Ibogaine Panel]

On [Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 09:10:54AM -0400], [Allan Clear] wrote:

| Hi Patrick,
| The 7th looks good. I guess we’ll do it in Newark. We’ll find a corner
| there. That’s wild about the manufacturing visit.
| Allan

Allan,

Hey, I forgot … I am not gonna be at the conference on the 8th, just the
DAY OF the ibogaine panel.  Which will prolly be total chaos.  How about
we do it one day after, the 9th?  We should definitely do lunch do0d!

z00m,

Patrick

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 6:43:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry, this isn’t an actual reply, but does anyone else know about the theory of using heroin without additives being OK healthwise.  Reports I read  say that all the harmful effects come from all the junk thats thrown in with it on the street to break it down or in the case of pharmacy pills like morphine sulphate. the glue or chalk etc.  they put in it to make the tablet.  Is that true or not?????  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 8:56:15 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Hey DH

Yes , I agree with you there are differences and we are human and we all
have had problems growing up, each and every one of us have and immunity
system
A person can have a strong one or not.
You can be highly immune to stress and disorders during a life time or
not.
I think it has a lot to do with genetics and will power.

I like to ask if anybody had a session with EEG biofeedback which helped
to recover from addiction?

S.

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 22:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Those are some heavy statistics, Marc.

Stealing roaches out of ash trays and burning your index finger while
smoking
them pales in comparison to prostituting oneself for a fix of smack,
while pus
drips from open absesses on your purple, bloated arms…

Yeah, we’re all human from begining to end (and most of us deserve
whatever
dignity we can scrape out of the barrel), but there are degrees of
seperation.
Another comparison is like the difference between the guy who drinks a
six pack
after work everyday and the guy next door who drinks a fith of vodka
before
noon just to keep the DT’s at bay.

But like my parents told me, that #*@! evil weed destroys your DNA and
leads to
Heroin Addiction and Death(!) And JFK was killed by a lone gunman.

~dh

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
> After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
> I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
> traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
> were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
> put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
> and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
> unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.
>
> Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.
>
> The premise by eldot is incorrect.
>
> Marc Emery
> Iboga House
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>
>
> >>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
> rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
> about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
> stereotyping.
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 9, 2003 at 6:37:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Everyone must have such different body chemistry.  So many people love marijuana.  It doesn’t agree with me at all.  Makes me want to curl up and go to sleep or makes me paranoid while everyone else I know has a ball and can smoke at breakfast and then doddle off to work…Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 4:19:45 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

you mean, as in using ibogaine to “kick” marijuana?
I don’t have personal experience with ibogaine, only with ibogaine
experienced folk, but everything I’ve so far seen seems to point to the two
being quite conducive to one another, not antagonistic.
I’d welcome any other perspective.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

> I note I haven’t seen cannabis mentioned in the list of ibogaine detox
> effective substances. Is there any personal experience or study regarding
> this?
>
> Just a question, new here…
> Peace,
> Jamilah
>
>
>
>

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 6:32:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

perhaps people with bad upbringing have other problems as well as addiction that makes them more likely to seek help and support to sort themselves out.????  Would that account for the statistics Marc is talking about… Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 9 September 2003 4:28:57 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

In a message dated 9/7/03 6:41:49 PM, marc@cannabisculture.com writes:

>After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
>I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
>traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
>were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
>This
>put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
>use,
>and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
>unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of “childhood traumas relating
to the absense of the male parent.” I mean in a statistical way. I might
suggest that in your screening process you intake some patients who had quite
stable family backgrounds. It would be interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two groups.

Howard

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 9, 2003 at 6:25:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry.  can’t agree with the radical childhood theory.  Both my partner and I had perfectly fine childhoods with 2 parents, Mum and Dad and other siblings.  I went to a private school which cost lots and had a good education, my partner went to a state boys school and did an apprenticeship in painting etc.  We both worked and still work but its a struggle between hanging onto our house, mortgage, and paying bills cos we have spent so so much money on using opiates.  We even grew our own poppies for a few years but that was even worse cos we just built up bigger tolerances cos we didn’t have the money issues to slow us down.  Got to the stage where we wanted to go to a party or bbq  but had to go round the garden to get fixed first & then by the time we sorted it and got off nodding out we’d start doing the garden round all over again.  Needless to say we didn’t get very far.   I think its more to do with your circle of friends or the places you put yourself.  Its like a conditioning that if everyone you know does it, that makes it normal, at least in your own environment.  Its only when you look outside that comfort zone that you realise that its different and other peoples don’t share the same opinion……   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003 6:41:33 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] those damn junkies
Date: September 8, 2003 at 1:58:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<rant>

a vast majority of the problems associated with addiction are thanks to
prohibition. (ok, understating the obvious) Add to that the history of covert
ops of flooding america’s poor urban and rural communities with massive amounts
of narcotics in order to keep the “undesirables” (in the ruling elites eyes)
under control. Would be community leaders and voices of the people supressed by
the constant, uncontrolable urge for the next fix. This has been repeated
throughout history across the globe.

Unfortunatley (or fortunately, depending on if you’re THE MAN) addiction knows
no boundaries. It doesn’t matter if your father abandoned you at a young age or
not or if you sustained an injury where heavy narcotics become more than
prescribed by the doctor. The spirit of opium is a strong and seductive force
to reckon with, regardless of childhood trauma or the lack of. I’ve encountered
many addicts who came from wonderful families who just liked to get high and
got caught up in it.

But drugs are an integral part of a multi billion dollar indistry of the rehab
and prison system here in amerika. which results a very few people getting
actual help in treatment (bacause the odds are like less than 10-1 that you
“fail”) while many other addicts go on to repeated incarceration and forced
labor.

Its not the drugs (that are the problem), its the prohibition laws and
society’s views of the “lowly evil” addict that are the problem.
decriminilization and de-stigmatization are a very large part of the solution.

</rant>

~dh

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 8, 2003 at 1:52:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:<

I think it is a matter of perspective, yes indeed Marc, but I don’t think
that makes it a strawman argument in the slightest, as am I not in the least
bit implying that all use equals abuse, of any substance legal or illegal at
all.
As I hope is obvious.
I am disagreeing with you that all heroin/opiate use is dehumanizing, or
equals “sickness” for sure.
I’m not at all in disagreement with you (I presume) that ibogaine should
be a legal option for those who wish not to use opiates and want to
stop/kick painlessly, in a way that apparently offers a lot more than simple
detox too for that matter.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

This is a straw-man argument. It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly qualifies as a proof of
a
healthy lifestyle:

I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes
reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.<<<<

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Marc Emery wrote >Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are
not
of this experience.<

Hey there Marc,
While I find your take on opiate addicts interesting, in that you’ve
actually got experience with a set of addicts on which to base your
conclusion, I can’t say I find your sweeping assessment of pot users and
opiate addicts to really be that scientific nor convincing at all.
I know way too many pot users who also had/have their share of
fucked
up
life experiences. I also know a fairly large number of opiate users AND
addicts who so far as I know had idyllic lives and childhoods with both
parents around for the entire time.
As a user of both pot and opiates, I personally find eldot’s premise
to
be pretty much spot on. Of course, I can really only speak for myself,
but
it seems to me that by basing your view on just the 28 addicts you’ve
treated over 12 months, I don’t think that even you have  the total
picture.
Not nearly.
Seems to me that were we to remove the criminalization and
sterotyping
of opiates and the users thereof, we’d remove a lot, if not most, of
what
turmoil can currently be caused by some forms of opiate use- speaking
from
a
legal, prescribed point of view of course.
It really is amazing to me the difference in my own opiate use and
life
nowadays, not having to worry about cops busting in and arresting me for
using opiates, not having to worry about what I’m buying, not having to
worry about “oh, am I gonna get caught using,” not having to troll the
streets day in night out for my medication, not having to worry about
getting ripped off by hoodlums or beaten by unscrupulous dealers, or
beaten
up by nasty bigoted street punks basing their violent prejudices on
prohibitionistic claptrap. (It’s ok in this day and age to be violent
towards others, but heaven forbid we allow others to use opiates. This
seems
to be a “normal, non-sick” point of view today- not saying that’s your
position at all- I’m just saying.) But I use opiates every single day,
in
fairly strong doses. Am I somehow less sick than streetbound heroin
junkies?
(Well, actually, getting right down to it, yeah, maybe I am, but not
because
of using opiates, but rather as a result of some of those aforementioned
life experiences.)
While I can relate to some if not most of the addicts you’ve
apparently
experienced at Iboga House, I don’t think of myself as more or less
“sick”
than anyone else I know- as a matter of fact, looking around the world
today, at all the people who supposedly AREN’T using opiates but find
nothing wrong with dropping bombs on foreigners and not supplying health
care for all their fellow citizens, well, I’m a lot less sick than many
“normal” non-druggy/opiate using types, even as physically battered and
tattered as I am.
I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes
reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.
It’s interesting to me what constitutes to some people well balanced
citizenship and what constitutes sick.
Again, I’m not saying that’s your view Marc, but it is the
overarching
view of society at large here in the US at least so far as I can see.
And
while this may not be your view, you do have some personal reasons for
not
caring for opiates, no? Besides, I think you’re wrong Marc in assuming
and
flat out asserting that opiate addicts are “sicker” than anyone else
simply
because of their opiate use.
Anyway, thanks for listening. It’s a beautiful day here in the
Apple, and I’m sitting in front of my computer working. Hmmm.
Wait a minute- a regular user of (LEGAL but STRONG) opiates being
responsible and even clear headed? Is that possible? What gives!?
(and on one more note, I can personally say that there have been times
where
I’ve smoked some pot or other that left me pretty much incapable of
doing
any kind of work that involved clear thinking. As much as I love pot, it
can
leave me feeling befuddled sometimes, as can opiates sometimes too but
not
in nearly the same way, personally speaking of course.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 8, 2003 at 12:27:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/7/03 6:41:49 PM, marc@cannabisculture.com writes:

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Marc,

Your patient group is rather biased in favor of “childhood traumas relating
to the absense of the male parent.”  I mean in a statistical way.  I might
suggest that in your screening process you intake some patients who had quite
stable family backgrounds.  It would be interesting to see if there are
distinctions in ibogaine outcomes between the two groups.

Howard

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 7, 2003 at 9:36:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a straw-man argument. It means you can think of a lifestyle more
dehumanizing than the one you have, but it hardly qualifies as a proof of a
healthy lifestyle:

I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.<<<<

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Marc Emery wrote >Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not
of this experience.<

Hey there Marc,
While I find your take on opiate addicts interesting, in that you’ve
actually got experience with a set of addicts on which to base your
conclusion, I can’t say I find your sweeping assessment of pot users and
opiate addicts to really be that scientific nor convincing at all.
I know way too many pot users who also had/have their share of fucked
up
life experiences. I also know a fairly large number of opiate users AND
addicts who so far as I know had idyllic lives and childhoods with both
parents around for the entire time.
As a user of both pot and opiates, I personally find eldot’s premise
to
be pretty much spot on. Of course, I can really only speak for myself, but
it seems to me that by basing your view on just the 28 addicts you’ve
treated over 12 months, I don’t think that even you have  the total
picture.
Not nearly.
Seems to me that were we to remove the criminalization and sterotyping
of opiates and the users thereof, we’d remove a lot, if not most, of what
turmoil can currently be caused by some forms of opiate use- speaking from
a
legal, prescribed point of view of course.
It really is amazing to me the difference in my own opiate use and
life
nowadays, not having to worry about cops busting in and arresting me for
using opiates, not having to worry about what I’m buying, not having to
worry about “oh, am I gonna get caught using,” not having to troll the
streets day in night out for my medication, not having to worry about
getting ripped off by hoodlums or beaten by unscrupulous dealers, or
beaten
up by nasty bigoted street punks basing their violent prejudices on
prohibitionistic claptrap. (It’s ok in this day and age to be violent
towards others, but heaven forbid we allow others to use opiates. This
seems
to be a “normal, non-sick” point of view today- not saying that’s your
position at all- I’m just saying.) But I use opiates every single day, in
fairly strong doses. Am I somehow less sick than streetbound heroin
junkies?
(Well, actually, getting right down to it, yeah, maybe I am, but not
because
of using opiates, but rather as a result of some of those aforementioned
life experiences.)
While I can relate to some if not most of the addicts you’ve
apparently
experienced at Iboga House, I don’t think of myself as more or less “sick”
than anyone else I know- as a matter of fact, looking around the world
today, at all the people who supposedly AREN’T using opiates but find
nothing wrong with dropping bombs on foreigners and not supplying health
care for all their fellow citizens, well, I’m a lot less sick than many
“normal” non-druggy/opiate using types, even as physically battered and
tattered as I am.
I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes
reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.
It’s interesting to me what constitutes to some people well balanced
citizenship and what constitutes sick.
Again, I’m not saying that’s your view Marc, but it is the overarching
view of society at large here in the US at least so far as I can see. And
while this may not be your view, you do have some personal reasons for not
caring for opiates, no? Besides, I think you’re wrong Marc in assuming and
flat out asserting that opiate addicts are “sicker” than anyone else
simply
because of their opiate use.
Anyway, thanks for listening. It’s a beautiful day here in the
Apple, and I’m sitting in front of my computer working. Hmmm.
Wait a minute- a regular user of (LEGAL but STRONG) opiates being
responsible and even clear headed? Is that possible? What gives!?
(and on one more note, I can personally say that there have been times
where
I’ve smoked some pot or other that left me pretty much incapable of doing
any kind of work that involved clear thinking. As much as I love pot, it
can
leave me feeling befuddled sometimes, as can opiates sometimes too but not
in nearly the same way, personally speaking of course.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] dxm doseage
Date: September 7, 2003 at 8:41:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A bottle I have here (Tussin DM by Marquee) at the house says it contains 10mgs
DXM in each 5ml teasponful. So 3 5ml teasponfuls. Read the label of your local
brand.

~d

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Brett wrote >I can’t suggest anyone use it but at the higher end of
the labeling (30mg), it seems safe and if it were me
and I were out of ibogaine and still having withdrawal
symptoms, I would look into DXM – or maybe with the
ibo and lower the dose. <

What is this, about one small bottle of cough syrup?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another
list

Sam

“> It just depends what the subject is hankering for.
Is it general
`withdrawal’ ?  ”

The question is for opioid type acute withdrawal, not
that prolonged/prortacted withdrawal using ibogaine as
well as DXM to supplement the treatment. The dosages
Dr. Abbas are actually quite low and safe, normal
dosages being in the 15-30mg range of DXM, hardly
seems like a slippery slope to me.

“> Surely, a DXM `trip’ in comparitively uncontrolled
conditions is
taking a step in the wrong direction?  ”

Surely, that is not what I was talking about.

DXM seems like it might go quite well along with
ibogaine as well as post treatment (after careful
consideration…). There are several reasons,
examples;

DXM and 18-MC appear to add to each others
anti-addictive properties, I wouldn’t be surprised if
ibogaine and/or nor-ibogaine showed similar effect
with DXM.

There is a low dose protocol for ibogaine root bark,
maybe the inclusion of DXM into that would help.

Post treatment methadone addicts are sometimes still
going through acute withdrawal where DXM may be of
help when they are in a country where ibo is illegal.

Sometimes people run out of ibogaine, didn’t get
enough, are still in some acute withdrawal post a main
treatment, sometimes “do-it-yourself” barf up what
they have…. There are a number of situations I have
heard where a back-up medication or something to help
the ibo along would help. DXM is easily available
virtually anywhere in the world, 24/7 24 hours a day
in most places and may be a safe/soft and effective
addition to ibogaine treatment oof opioid addiction.

I can’t suggest anyone use it but at the higher end of
the labeling (30mg), it seems safe and if it were me
and I were out of ibogaine and still having withdrawal
symptoms, I would look into DXM – or maybe with the
ibo and lower the dose.

Here is some food for thought;

Brett

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11906717&dopt=Abstract

Antagonism of alpha 3 beta 4 nicotinic receptors as a
strategy to reduce opioid and stimulant
self-administration.

Glick SD, Maisonneuve IM, Kitchen BA, Fleck MW.

“In studies of morphine and methamphetamine
self-administration, the effects of low dose
combinations of 18-methoxycoronaridine with
mecamylamine or dextromethorphan and of mecamylamine
with dextromethorphan were assessed. Mecamylamine and
dextromethorphan have also been shown to be
antagonists at alpha 3 beta 4 nicotinic receptors. All
three drug combinations decreased both morphine and
methamphetamine self-administration at doses that were
ineffective if administered alone”

http://www.dextroverse.org/Archives/DXM_Helps_Morphine_Withdraw.pdf

The clinically available NMDA receptor antagonist
dextromethorphan attenuates acute morphine withdrawal
in the neonatal rat

Hongbo Zhu , Shirzad Jenab , Kathy L. Jones , Charles
E. Inturrisi

Pre-treatment with 50 mg/ kg dextromethorphan
significantly reduced acute morphine withdrawal
behaviors the 7-day-old rat (Fig. 1). Compared with
the control group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8895234&dopt=Abstract

Continuous co-administration of dextromethorphan or
MK-801 with morphine: attenuation of morphine
dependence and naloxone-reversible attenuation of
morphine tolerance.

Manning BH, Mao J, Frenk H, Price DD, Mayer DJ.

“DM may prove clinically useful for the prevention of
morphine tolerance, given its lack of observable side
effects when administered concurrently with morphine
to rodents.”

— Sam Vilain <sam@vilain.net> wrote:
cause it also puts kiddies to sleep quite
nicely, like the illegal
but legal in baby-food l-tryptophan. In fact you
can get high on
tryptophan come to think of it (I tried
everything I could think

tryptophan is an essential amino acid; it is
required for human life.
Rich sources of tryptophan include turkey, chicken,
fish, pheasant,
partridge, cottage cheese, bananas, eggs, nuts,
wheat germ, avocados,
milk, cheese and the legumes (beans, peas, pulses,
soya).  It puts
babies to sleep because it is converted into
5-hydroxytryptamine
(5-HT) – Seratonin – a hormone used in regulating
sleep.

You normally intake at least a gram of tryptophan
every day, or you
should.

DXM might be of help to the patient returning
from ibo
treatment (coutry where such treatment is legal)
and
experienceing residual withdrawal symptoms while
home
in a country where ibo is illegal.

Surely, a DXM `trip’ in comparitively uncontrolled
conditions is
taking a step in the wrong direction?  It’s a
slippery slope back
down.  From the look of those instructions (a daily
dose for four
days), I’d say they’re targetted at immediate
withdrawal, not long
term dissatisfaction.  In any case, you should not
do it unless you
have all of the other ingredients to that cocktail,
measured to within
+/- 20% of the stated amounts!

You’re better off making sure that they’re eating
well (get a copy of
_The Omega Rx Zone_, Barry Sears, which has sound
nutritional advice
based on real science).  Food has a hormonal impact
on your body
stronger than many drugs, if you learn to use
properly it you can get
naturally high all the time 8-).

It just depends what the subject is hankering for.
Is it general
`withdrawal’ ?  From what, the feeling of being
high, the feeling of
release, or the feeling of exploring new mental
barriers ?  Perhaps
they just need to go bungy jumping or skydiving or


Sam Vilain, sam@vilain.net

A man’s mind, stretched by a new idea, can never
go back to it’s
original dimension.
OLIVER WENDELL HOLMES

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list
Date: September 7, 2003 at 6:06:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett wrote >I can’t suggest anyone use it but at the higher end of
the labeling (30mg), it seems safe and if it were me
and I were out of ibogaine and still having withdrawal
symptoms, I would look into DXM – or maybe with the
ibo and lower the dose. <

What is this, about one small bottle of cough syrup?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another
list

Sam

“> It just depends what the subject is hankering for.
Is it general
`withdrawal’ ?  ”

The question is for opioid type acute withdrawal, not
that prolonged/prortacted withdrawal using ibogaine as
well as DXM to supplement the treatment. The dosages
Dr. Abbas are actually quite low and safe, normal
dosages being in the 15-30mg range of DXM, hardly
seems like a slippery slope to me.

“> Surely, a DXM `trip’ in comparitively uncontrolled
conditions is
taking a step in the wrong direction?  ”

Surely, that is not what I was talking about.

DXM seems like it might go quite well along with
ibogaine as well as post treatment (after careful
consideration…). There are several reasons,
examples;

DXM and 18-MC appear to add to each others
anti-addictive properties, I wouldn’t be surprised if
ibogaine and/or nor-ibogaine showed similar effect
with DXM.

There is a low dose protocol for ibogaine root bark,
maybe the inclusion of DXM into that would help.

Post treatment methadone addicts are sometimes still
going through acute withdrawal where DXM may be of
help when they are in a country where ibo is illegal.

Sometimes people run out of ibogaine, didn’t get
enough, are still in some acute withdrawal post a main
treatment, sometimes “do-it-yourself” barf up what
they have…. There are a number of situations I have
heard where a back-up medication or something to help
the ibo along would help. DXM is easily available
virtually anywhere in the world, 24/7 24 hours a day
in most places and may be a safe/soft and effective
addition to ibogaine treatment oof opioid addiction.

I can’t suggest anyone use it but at the higher end of
the labeling (30mg), it seems safe and if it were me
and I were out of ibogaine and still having withdrawal
symptoms, I would look into DXM – or maybe with the
ibo and lower the dose.

Here is some food for thought;

Brett

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11906717&dopt=Abstract

Antagonism of alpha 3 beta 4 nicotinic receptors as a
strategy to reduce opioid and stimulant
self-administration.

Glick SD, Maisonneuve IM, Kitchen BA, Fleck MW.

“In studies of morphine and methamphetamine
self-administration, the effects of low dose
combinations of 18-methoxycoronaridine with
mecamylamine or dextromethorphan and of mecamylamine
with dextromethorphan were assessed. Mecamylamine and
dextromethorphan have also been shown to be
antagonists at alpha 3 beta 4 nicotinic receptors. All
three drug combinations decreased both morphine and
methamphetamine self-administration at doses that were
ineffective if administered alone”

http://www.dextroverse.org/Archives/DXM_Helps_Morphine_Withdraw.pdf

The clinically available NMDA receptor antagonist
dextromethorphan attenuates acute morphine withdrawal
in the neonatal rat

Hongbo Zhu , Shirzad Jenab , Kathy L. Jones , Charles
E. Inturrisi

Pre-treatment with 50 mg/ kg dextromethorphan
significantly reduced acute morphine withdrawal
behaviors the 7-day-old rat (Fig. 1). Compared with
the control group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8895234&dopt=Abstract

Continuous co-administration of dextromethorphan or
MK-801 with morphine: attenuation of morphine
dependence and naloxone-reversible attenuation of
morphine tolerance.

Manning BH, Mao J, Frenk H, Price DD, Mayer DJ.

“DM may prove clinically useful for the prevention of
morphine tolerance, given its lack of observable side
effects when administered concurrently with morphine
to rodents.”

— Sam Vilain <sam@vilain.net> wrote:
cause it also puts kiddies to sleep quite
nicely, like the illegal
but legal in baby-food l-tryptophan. In fact you
can get high on
tryptophan come to think of it (I tried
everything I could think

tryptophan is an essential amino acid; it is
required for human life.
Rich sources of tryptophan include turkey, chicken,
fish, pheasant,
partridge, cottage cheese, bananas, eggs, nuts,
wheat germ, avocados,
milk, cheese and the legumes (beans, peas, pulses,
soya).  It puts
babies to sleep because it is converted into
5-hydroxytryptamine
(5-HT) – Seratonin – a hormone used in regulating
sleep.

You normally intake at least a gram of tryptophan
every day, or you
should.

DXM might be of help to the patient returning
from ibo
treatment (coutry where such treatment is legal)
and
experienceing residual withdrawal symptoms while
home
in a country where ibo is illegal.

Surely, a DXM `trip’ in comparitively uncontrolled
conditions is
taking a step in the wrong direction?  It’s a
slippery slope back
down.  From the look of those instructions (a daily
dose for four
days), I’d say they’re targetted at immediate
withdrawal, not long
term dissatisfaction.  In any case, you should not
do it unless you
have all of the other ingredients to that cocktail,
measured to within
+/- 20% of the stated amounts!

You’re better off making sure that they’re eating
well (get a copy of
_The Omega Rx Zone_, Barry Sears, which has sound
nutritional advice
based on real science).  Food has a hormonal impact
on your body
stronger than many drugs, if you learn to use
properly it you can get
naturally high all the time 8-).

It just depends what the subject is hankering for.
Is it general
`withdrawal’ ?  From what, the feeling of being
high, the feeling of
release, or the feeling of exploring new mental
barriers ?  Perhaps
they just need to go bungy jumping or skydiving or


Sam Vilain, sam@vilain.net

A man’s mind, stretched by a new idea, can never
go back to it’s
original dimension.
OLIVER WENDELL HOLMES

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list
Date: September 7, 2003 at 5:53:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, ibogaine@ibogaine.org
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sam

“> It just depends what the subject is hankering for.
Is it general
`withdrawal’ ?  ”

The question is for opioid type acute withdrawal, not
that prolonged/prortacted withdrawal using ibogaine as
well as DXM to supplement the treatment. The dosages
Dr. Abbas are actually quite low and safe, normal
dosages being in the 15-30mg range of DXM, hardly
seems like a slippery slope to me.

“> Surely, a DXM `trip’ in comparitively uncontrolled
conditions is
taking a step in the wrong direction?  ”

Surely, that is not what I was talking about.

DXM seems like it might go quite well along with
ibogaine as well as post treatment (after careful
consideration…). There are several reasons,
examples;

DXM and 18-MC appear to add to each others
anti-addictive properties, I wouldn’t be surprised if
ibogaine and/or nor-ibogaine showed similar effect
with DXM.

There is a low dose protocol for ibogaine root bark,
maybe the inclusion of DXM into that would help.

Post treatment methadone addicts are sometimes still
going through acute withdrawal where DXM may be of
help when they are in a country where ibo is illegal.

Sometimes people run out of ibogaine, didn’t get
enough, are still in some acute withdrawal post a main
treatment, sometimes “do-it-yourself” barf up what
they have…. There are a number of situations I have
heard where a back-up medication or something to help
the ibo along would help. DXM is easily available
virtually anywhere in the world, 24/7 24 hours a day
in most places and may be a safe/soft and effective
addition to ibogaine treatment oof opioid addiction.

I can’t suggest anyone use it but at the higher end of
the labeling (30mg), it seems safe and if it were me
and I were out of ibogaine and still having withdrawal
symptoms, I would look into DXM – or maybe with the
ibo and lower the dose.

Here is some food for thought;

Brett

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11906717&dopt=Abstract

Antagonism of alpha 3 beta 4 nicotinic receptors as a
strategy to reduce opioid and stimulant
self-administration.

Glick SD, Maisonneuve IM, Kitchen BA, Fleck MW.

“In studies of morphine and methamphetamine
self-administration, the effects of low dose
combinations of 18-methoxycoronaridine with
mecamylamine or dextromethorphan and of mecamylamine
with dextromethorphan were assessed. Mecamylamine and
dextromethorphan have also been shown to be
antagonists at alpha 3 beta 4 nicotinic receptors. All
three drug combinations decreased both morphine and
methamphetamine self-administration at doses that were
ineffective if administered alone”

http://www.dextroverse.org/Archives/DXM_Helps_Morphine_Withdraw.pdf

The clinically available NMDA receptor antagonist
dextromethorphan attenuates acute morphine withdrawal
in the neonatal rat

Hongbo Zhu , Shirzad Jenab , Kathy L. Jones , Charles
E. Inturrisi

Pre-treatment with 50 mg/ kg dextromethorphan
significantly reduced acute morphine withdrawal
behaviors the 7-day-old rat (Fig. 1). Compared with
the control group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8895234&dopt=Abstract

Continuous co-administration of dextromethorphan or
MK-801 with morphine: attenuation of morphine
dependence and naloxone-reversible attenuation of
morphine tolerance.

Manning BH, Mao J, Frenk H, Price DD, Mayer DJ.

“DM may prove clinically useful for the prevention of
morphine tolerance, given its lack of observable side
effects when administered concurrently with morphine
to rodents.”

— Sam Vilain <sam@vilain.net> wrote:
cause it also puts kiddies to sleep quite
nicely, like the illegal
but legal in baby-food l-tryptophan. In fact you
can get high on
tryptophan come to think of it (I tried
everything I could think

tryptophan is an essential amino acid; it is
required for human life.
Rich sources of tryptophan include turkey, chicken,
fish, pheasant,
partridge, cottage cheese, bananas, eggs, nuts,
wheat germ, avocados,
milk, cheese and the legumes (beans, peas, pulses,
soya).  It puts
babies to sleep because it is converted into
5-hydroxytryptamine
(5-HT) – Seratonin – a hormone used in regulating
sleep.

You normally intake at least a gram of tryptophan
every day, or you
should.

DXM might be of help to the patient returning
from ibo
treatment (coutry where such treatment is legal)
and
experienceing residual withdrawal symptoms while
home
in a country where ibo is illegal.

Surely, a DXM `trip’ in comparitively uncontrolled
conditions is
taking a step in the wrong direction?  It’s a
slippery slope back
down.  From the look of those instructions (a daily
dose for four
days), I’d say they’re targetted at immediate
withdrawal, not long
term dissatisfaction.  In any case, you should not
do it unless you
have all of the other ingredients to that cocktail,
measured to within
+/- 20% of the stated amounts!

You’re better off making sure that they’re eating
well (get a copy of
_The Omega Rx Zone_, Barry Sears, which has sound
nutritional advice
based on real science).  Food has a hormonal impact
on your body
stronger than many drugs, if you learn to use
properly it you can get
naturally high all the time 8-).

It just depends what the subject is hankering for.
Is it general
`withdrawal’ ?  From what, the feeling of being
high, the feeling of
release, or the feeling of exploring new mental
barriers ?  Perhaps
they just need to go bungy jumping or skydiving or


Sam Vilain, sam@vilain.net

A man’s mind, stretched by a new idea, can never
go back to it’s
original dimension.
OLIVER WENDELL HOLMES

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 7, 2003 at 5:39:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc Emery wrote >Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not
of this experience.<

Hey there Marc,
While I find your take on opiate addicts interesting, in that you’ve
actually got experience with a set of addicts on which to base your
conclusion, I can’t say I find your sweeping assessment of pot users and
opiate addicts to really be that scientific nor convincing at all.
I know way too many pot users who also had/have their share of fucked up
life experiences. I also know a fairly large number of opiate users AND
addicts who so far as I know had idyllic lives and childhoods with both
parents around for the entire time.
As a user of both pot and opiates, I personally find eldot’s premise to
be pretty much spot on. Of course, I can really only speak for myself, but
it seems to me that by basing your view on just the 28 addicts you’ve
treated over 12 months, I don’t think that even you have  the total picture.
Not nearly.
Seems to me that were we to remove the criminalization and sterotyping
of opiates and the users thereof, we’d remove a lot, if not most, of what
turmoil can currently be caused by some forms of opiate use- speaking from a
legal, prescribed point of view of course.
It really is amazing to me the difference in my own opiate use and life
nowadays, not having to worry about cops busting in and arresting me for
using opiates, not having to worry about what I’m buying, not having to
worry about “oh, am I gonna get caught using,” not having to troll the
streets day in night out for my medication, not having to worry about
getting ripped off by hoodlums or beaten by unscrupulous dealers, or beaten
up by nasty bigoted street punks basing their violent prejudices on
prohibitionistic claptrap. (It’s ok in this day and age to be violent
towards others, but heaven forbid we allow others to use opiates. This seems
to be a “normal, non-sick” point of view today- not saying that’s your
position at all- I’m just saying.) But I use opiates every single day, in
fairly strong doses. Am I somehow less sick than streetbound heroin junkies?
(Well, actually, getting right down to it, yeah, maybe I am, but not because
of using opiates, but rather as a result of some of those aforementioned
life experiences.)
While I can relate to some if not most of the addicts you’ve apparently
experienced at Iboga House, I don’t think of myself as more or less “sick”
than anyone else I know- as a matter of fact, looking around the world
today, at all the people who supposedly AREN’T using opiates but find
nothing wrong with dropping bombs on foreigners and not supplying health
care for all their fellow citizens, well, I’m a lot less sick than many
“normal” non-druggy/opiate using types, even as physically battered and
tattered as I am.
I’d rather be a junky than a straight, non-junky murderous
uncompassionate status-quo supporting sicko- though the murderous
uncompassionate sickos are the ones who get to be
President/cop/lawyer/politician/Enron board member/NYTimes reporter/soldier
with health coverage and other benefits.
It’s interesting to me what constitutes to some people well balanced
citizenship and what constitutes sick.
Again, I’m not saying that’s your view Marc, but it is the overarching
view of society at large here in the US at least so far as I can see. And
while this may not be your view, you do have some personal reasons for not
caring for opiates, no? Besides, I think you’re wrong Marc in assuming and
flat out asserting that opiate addicts are “sicker” than anyone else simply
because of their opiate use.
Anyway, thanks for listening. It’s a beautiful day here in the
Apple, and I’m sitting in front of my computer working. Hmmm.
Wait a minute- a regular user of (LEGAL but STRONG) opiates being
responsible and even clear headed? Is that possible? What gives!?
(and on one more note, I can personally say that there have been times where
I’ve smoked some pot or other that left me pretty much incapable of doing
any kind of work that involved clear thinking. As much as I love pot, it can
leave me feeling befuddled sometimes, as can opiates sometimes too but not
in nearly the same way, personally speaking of course.)
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 7, 2003 at 4:55:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey DH

Yes , I agree with you there are differences and we are human and we all
have had problems growing up, each and every one of us have and immunity
system
A person can have a strong one or not.
You can be highly immune to stress and disorders during a life time or
not.
I think it has a lot to do with genetics and will power.

I like to ask if anybody had a session with EEG biofeedback which helped
to recover from addiction?

S.

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma [mailto:gammalyte9000@yahoo.com]
Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 22:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal

Those are some heavy statistics, Marc.

Stealing roaches out of ash trays and burning your index finger while
smoking
them pales in comparison to prostituting oneself for a fix of smack,
while pus
drips from open absesses on your purple, bloated arms…

Yeah, we’re all human from begining to end (and most of us deserve
whatever
dignity we can scrape out of the barrel), but there are degrees of
seperation.
Another comparison is like the difference between the guy who drinks a
six pack
after work everyday and the guy next door who drinks a fith of vodka
before
noon just to keep the DT’s at bay.

But like my parents told me, that #*@! evil weed destroys your DNA and
leads to
Heroin Addiction and Death(!) And JFK was killed by a lone gunman.

~dh

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12
months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical
childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of
them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood.
This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug
use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady
and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this
experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “Ordinary Speak”
Date: September 7, 2003 at 4:45:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Angie,

Do NOT, under any circumstances, whatso-ever, take Ibogaine alone at home.

I do not know where to get Ibogaine in the UK (or the US).

Ibogaine HCL is the purest form of Ibogaine.

Indra is a crude extract of the Iboga root, and is less potent.

Iboga Root Bark is the raw material and least potent.

Either HCL or Indra is most commonly used for addiction interruption. The
dosage varies between the two, qualified Ibogaine treatment personel will
direct the doseage, typically the dose is based on your body weight.

The root bark potency is un-predictable therefore not the first choice. (plus
it resembles the taste of battery acid and re-constituted dog vomit (Š2003 Lord
Digital, all rights reserved) AND you have to consume mass quantities of it for
the desired affect.

I suggest you go to www.ibogaine.org and read all you can about Ibogaine and
its use in addiction interruption. When you are done there, go to google and do
a search for ibogaine and read even more. educate yourself, and feel free to
ask more Q’s here.

Ibogaine is not a “cure” but if used properly with careful preperation, proper
guidance AND a strategic exit plan(this is crucial), it can be extremely
helpful in ending the destructive cycle of addiction.

pancreatitis… hmm, I’m not qualified to comment on that one. It could be an
issue in regards to ingesting ibogaine.

Best of Luck,
~dh

— Angie Sadler <angie.sadler1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi all,

Is the there anyone out there that can tell me in ordinary language, laymans
terms;

Where can I get Ibogaine in the UK?
Is it safe to self medicate at home?

What dosage should I use (I have never used drugs as such, alcohol is my
curse).

What is the difference between all the different forms of ibogaine, and which
one should I use?

Any other information helpful to a totally non streetwise, non drug using
female (I have pancreatitis and diabetes type one,caused by the alcohol).

I live in the UK. Maybe that’s why I don’t understand some of your postings.

Many thanks

Angie.


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 – Release Date: 01/09/2003

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 7, 2003 at 4:26:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Those are some heavy statistics, Marc.

Stealing roaches out of ash trays and burning your index finger while smoking
them pales in comparison to prostituting oneself for a fix of smack, while pus
drips from open absesses on your purple, bloated arms…

Yeah, we’re all human from begining to end (and most of us deserve whatever
dignity we can scrape out of the barrel), but there are degrees of seperation.
Another comparison is like the difference between the guy who drinks a six pack
after work everyday and the guy next door who drinks a fith of vodka before
noon just to keep the DT’s at bay.

But like my parents told me, that #*@! evil weed destroys your DNA and leads to
Heroin Addiction and Death(!) And JFK was killed by a lone gunman.

~dh

— Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “Angie Sadler” <angie.sadler1@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] “Ordinary Speak”
Date: September 7, 2003 at 3:53:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

Is the there anyone out there that can tell me in ordinary language, laymans terms;

Where can I get Ibogaine in the UK?
Is it safe to self medicate at home?

What dosage should I use (I have never used drugs as such, alcohol is my curse).

What is the difference between all the different forms of ibogaine, and which one should I use?

Any other information helpful to a totally non streetwise, non drug using female (I have pancreatitis and diabetes type one,caused by the alcohol).

I live in the UK. Maybe that’s why I don’t understand some of your postings.

Many thanks

Angie.


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 – Release Date: 01/09/2003

From: Jennifer <scrakalak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 7, 2003 at 3:01:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm…wonder what my excuse is then??  My parents are still together and I’m very close to my Dad.  Always have been.  I look forward to trying this treatment, but I’m still kind of scared.  I’ve just started looking into it a few weeks ago.

Jennifer

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot”

>>>News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Junkies are sicker than normal
Date: September 7, 2003 at 2:24:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After treating 28 drug addicted patients with iboga over the last 12 months,
I have realized that virtually all my patients had very radical childhood
traumas relating to the absense of the male parent. Of the 28, all of them
were missing the biological father for all or much of their childhood. This
put them on a road to alienation, bad decision making, early hard drug use,
and over the years, their health and relationships have been unsteady and
unsatisfying. Many have come close to overdose death.

Pot users are not immersed in this lifestyle and are not of this experience.

The premise by eldot is incorrect.

Marc Emery
Iboga House

—– Original Message —–
From: “eldot” <eldot@mail15.com>

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

From: “Sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 7, 2003 at 12:21:03 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Jamilah [mailto:jamilah@erols.com]
Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 16:54
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

I note I haven’t seen cannabis mentioned in the list of ibogaine detox
effective substances.  Is there any personal experience or study
regarding
this?

Just a question, new here…
Peace,
Jamilah

Hello Jamilah,

At my house In the Netherlands Cannabis has become part of the
detoxification program for the last four years.
At the moment we have 19 strains of organically grown cannabis for
testing.

Take care,

Sara

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 7, 2003 at 12:19:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you mean, as in using ibogaine to “kick” marijuana?
I don’t have personal experience with ibogaine, only with ibogaine
experienced folk, but everything I’ve so far seen seems to point to the two
being quite conducive to one another, not antagonistic.
I’d welcome any other perspective.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack

I note I haven’t seen cannabis mentioned in the list of ibogaine detox
effective substances.  Is there any personal experience or study regarding
this?

Just a question, new here…
Peace,
Jamilah

From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 7, 2003 at 10:53:38 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I note I haven’t seen cannabis mentioned in the list of ibogaine detox
effective substances.  Is there any personal experience or study regarding
this?

Just a question, new here…
Peace,
Jamilah

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 6, 2003 at 11:55:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

all the TreaTment pimps that abound, cashing in on “spiritual principles”.

the very same TreatMent pimps that told me I “didn’t have a snowballs chance in
hell of cleaning up without us”. Where 10 grand gets you 30 days off the street
and a pile of Books. THOSE Treatment Pimps. I wasn’t calling the DPA treatment
Pimps.

Nor do I, personally, view junkies or potheads holier than the other. But I’d
rather kick a weed habit than a junk one any day. We’s all human, i agree!

— eldot <eldot@mail15.com> wrote:

http://www.drugpolicy.org

Show me where in their mission statement it says “we want to
legalize crack”

The DPA is for ending the “war on drugs” not legalizing crack. I
am really sick and tired of all the entheogen people and potheads
who adopt a holier then thou attitude how what they are doing is
ok and the poor sick “hard drug” users should be saved from
themselves.

The stereotypes of junkies as toothless unwashed losers are
promoted by most of the cannabis reform movement, medical
marijuana anything else you want to call it.

I don’t see any of you doing anything except dividing into
factions and it is all the pot calling the kettle black.

End the war on drugs.

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

More news is that while I don’t have anything at all good to say
about Bush, the war on drugs got no better under Clinton. It’s a
two party system. The libertarians, marijuana party, green party,
any party you want to call it, are not going to be winning any
presidential elections.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 11:13:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You should pull them aside at the DPA conference and get their OK! :-
) If they’re not busy smoking crack that is.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:13:36 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/6/03 10:55:28 PM, crownofthorns@hushmail.com
writes:

Howard when do we get to see the ibogaine dealers on every corner?
;-
) 🙂 🙂 🙂

When the CIA gives the OK.

Howard

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 11:12:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How many mgs per tablespoon? 🙂

Peace out and eat ice cream,
Curtis

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:30:35 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 04:47:56PM -0700], [Gamma] wrote:

While I have your attention — although it’s slightly premature
— Howard
and I have been discussing an eXciting gnu bid’ness.  Ibogaine(R)
Flavored
Ice Cream!

Featuring the delightful taste sensation of: dirt, battery acid,
and
reconstituted dog vomit!  MMmmmmmm.  Probably, the French will love
it.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 10:30:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 04:47:56PM -0700], [Gamma] wrote:

| Yeah it bums me out that the Ibogaine movement has encountered so many
| lawsuits, back-stabbing and downright bullshit. All this does nothing for the
| cause. I ain’t pointing the finger in ANY direction, it is what it is what it
| is. Its probably like this when any pharmaceutical with potential for great
| volumes of cubic cash enters the scene (or threatens existing paradigmz). alas,
| the dope fiends still suffer. Isn’t that what it was about? Freeing the fiends?
| Greed really fucks everything up.
|
| But Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto sounds mighty fine to me and it all makes
| perfect sense, in the end. After all none of this really matters once you hit
| purple, anyways. But then there’s reality… whatever that is…
|
| ~d
|
| — crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
| > This just made me LOL for minutes.
| >
| > All right! Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and Returning Ibogaine to the
| > Drug Users 🙂
| >
| > Not the usual ibogaine conference 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Actually there’s a long and sacred tradition of this sort of thing in the
ibogaine universe.  Every coupla years all the players get up, switch
roles, and change their masks.

It makes life more interesting.

‘Scuse me, gotta go purchase a new Ibogaine(R) by Nissan.

http://www.ibogaine.com/

And, perhaps, pick up sum to0nz frum dis place:

http://www.ibogaine.de

While I have your attention — although it’s slightly premature — Howard
and I have been discussing an eXciting gnu bid’ness.  Ibogaine(R) Flavored
Ice Cream!

Featuring the delightful taste sensation of: dirt, battery acid, and
reconstituted dog vomit!  MMmmmmmm.  Probably, the French will love it.

100% of all proceeds will go to buying us Cool Toys.  Dave, we need you to
do all the art for the cartons, t-shirts, posters, video, and
Ibogaine-Brand Hello Kitty! merchandise.

Please note: If you’re a French person reading this list, I didn’t mean
YOU.  I meant the rest of THEM.  Thank you.

My work here is done.

Love, light, and the Purple Shit(R)(SM)(C)(Patents Pending, issueD,
disputed, lost, found, and bouncing in and out of various dimensions,
parallel universes, and slipstreams).

Patrick

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 10:15:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/6/03 11:49:36 PM, jessica_w@ziplip.com writes:

All of this looks like a great line up and I’d love to attend the ibogaine
panel in the Meadowlands but the Drug Policy Alliance wants $450 at the
door or $350 in advance?

Who is this designed for? There is no way I can afford to pay $300 or $400
to see one panel. If I could afford it I’m not sure I’d spend that much
anyway 🙁

There is a one day price of $150.00 and a signficant student discount is you
qualify as a student.

Howard

From: eldot <eldot@mail15.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] dpa and legalizing crack
Date: September 6, 2003 at 10:12:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.drugpolicy.org

Show me where in their mission statement it says “we want to
legalize crack”

The DPA is for ending the “war on drugs” not legalizing crack. I
am really sick and tired of all the entheogen people and potheads
who adopt a holier then thou attitude how what they are doing is
ok and the poor sick “hard drug” users should be saved from
themselves.

The stereotypes of junkies as toothless unwashed losers are
promoted by most of the cannabis reform movement, medical
marijuana anything else you want to call it.

I don’t see any of you doing anything except dividing into
factions and it is all the pot calling the kettle black.

End the war on drugs.

News for the potheads, junkies are no “sicker” then any of the
rest of you, or any of the “normal” people for that matter. How
about the right to human dignity for all humans instead of this
stereotyping.

More news is that while I don’t have anything at all good to say
about Bush, the war on drugs got no better under Clinton. It’s a
two party system. The libertarians, marijuana party, green party,
any party you want to call it, are not going to be winning any
presidential elections.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 10:13:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/6/03 10:55:28 PM, crownofthorns@hushmail.com writes:

Howard when do we get to see the ibogaine dealers on every corner? ;-
) 🙂 🙂 🙂

When the CIA gives the OK.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 10:12:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark,

First, all those people are split between two conferences so it is not quite
the miracle that it appears.  Second, will you be donating to this wondrous
project to get me to both events?  http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html and
just click on the donation link from there.

Try http://www.ibogaine.org/whatsnew.html for the separation of the
conferences as to their agendas.

Howard

In a message dated 9/6/03 10:13:31 PM, markdreser@ziplip.com writes:

Busy month for ibogaine. Been reading for months but taking my talks to
private email but this I can’t pass up.

Debra Mash and Stanley Glick. Dana Beal, Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa, Howard
Lotsof, Daniel Pinchbeck and Sandra Karpetas from Marc Emery.

Nothing with ibogaine surprises me but this surprises me. Patrick giving
a talk called Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and you list your affiliation
with Healing Visions instead of Mindvox?

Did a lot of money or stock change hands?
Is someone being blackmailed?
Did someone at last do so much LSD they broke what was left of their mind?

You are the same Patrick who invented the slang Treatment Pimps right?
You are the same Patrick who has filled every issue of Heroin Times with
rants about drug treatment.

The devil’s son comes home. Now I’ve seen everything.

No way. This isn’t happening.

Patrick are you ok?

M.D.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 2:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required

To those list members who had previously supported the Dora Weiner
Foundation

(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and Methadone at the American

Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence I would like to once
again
thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new project, “West Coast/East
Coast:
State of the Art.”  The intent of this project is to allow DWF
participation

in two conferences. The first sponsored by the California Society of
Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October where three presentations
on
ibogaine will delivered.  The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) will sponsor
an
Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take place in East Rutherford,
NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast: State of the Art” Project page
for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to fulfill it requirements to
this
multi-conference project.  Contributions are tax deductible and will
be
greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: Michael Synergy <synergy_1959@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 9:17:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What Treatment Pimps? The Drug Policy Alliance is a
new organization that folds the Lindesmith Center and
the Drug Policy Foundation into one group. It has
funding from Soros, the Cato Institute, the
Libertarians and probably a lot more Republicans then
it admits to. What treatment pimps? The DPA wants to
legalize crack. I don’t think it even views drug
addiction as a problem. That reminds me Stanton Peale
is real big on them.

The big news is that this is the first time it has
allowed a ibogaine presentation. Last December was the
first time the Harm Reduction Coalition allowed the
first ibogaine panel also, with Mash, Kroupa, Beal in
Seattle.

It is big progress for ibogaine but it doesn’t have
anything to do with keeping people off drugs. Crack,
heroin, ibogaine, marijuana, you name it, everything
should be legal is their goal.

-Syn

— Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
IMHO addicts/ex-addicts should be admitted for free.
Treatment PimPs pay
double.

Patrick, get a copy of the backstage pass and have
1200 printed up.

better yet, make it a web-cast event. Have MV
hardware stream it out to the
masses.

~d

— “jessica_w@ziplip.com” <jessica_w@ziplip.com>
wrote:

All of this looks like a great line up and I’d
love to attend the ibogaine
panel in the Meadowlands but the Drug Policy
Alliance wants $450 at the door
or $350 in advance?

Who is this designed for? There is no way I can
afford to pay $300 or $400 to
see one panel. If I could afford it I’m not sure
I’d spend that much anyway
🙁

-jess

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
[mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 4:32 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required

This just made me LOL for minutes.

All right! Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and
Returning Ibogaine to the
Drug Users 🙂

Not the usual ibogaine conference 🙂 🙂 🙂
🙂

I think people say a lot about other people they
really do not know bro.
Dr. Mash is a really nice lady and I’ve always
thought it was a great
reflection on her that someone she calls her son
was a hardcore junkie
who had a treatment plan of going to Bangkok,
blowing his brains out
with LSD and was saved by becoming a hardcore
psychonaut 🙂

Both of them at the same conference are a trip
🙂 No drugs are bad speech,
no 12 steps, lot of treatment pimp rants from
Patrick and white light
and dark side molecules. Right on, Right on! 🙂
If there was any
disagreement
I didn’t see it and they’re talking to the video
cameras. The only
difference
is Patrick rants about Treatment Pimps, Dr. Mash
says he is a exception
and talks about how most need after care.

I don’t think ‘the devil’s son’ ever left home.
I think that maybe two
people thought it might be funny to have Healing
Visions sponsor ‘Life
in the Psychedelic Ghetto’ 😉 😉 😉

Right on! Right on bro! Everytime I read this it
gets funnier. 🙂

Howard when do we get to see the ibogaine
dealers on every corner? ;-
) 🙂 🙂 🙂

This line up has made my day. Right on!

Peace out,
Curtis

markdreser@ziplip.com wrote:

Busy month for ibogaine. Been reading for
months but taking my talks
to private email but this I can’t pass up.

Debra Mash and Stanley Glick. Dana Beal, Ken
Alper, Patrick Kroupa,
Howard Lotsof, Daniel Pinchbeck and Sandra
Karpetas from Marc Emery.

Nothing with ibogaine surprises me but this
surprises me. Patrick >giving
a talk called Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and
you list your >affiliation
with Healing Visions instead of Mindvox?

Did a lot of money or stock change hands?
Is someone being blackmailed?
Did someone at last do so much LSD they broke
what was left of their
mind?

You are the same Patrick who invented the slang
Treatment Pimps
right? You are the same Patrick who has filled
every issue of Heroin

Times with rants about drug treatment.

The devil’s son comes home. Now I’ve seen
everything.

No way. This isn’t happening.

Patrick are you ok?

M.D.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
[mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 2:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required

To those list members who had previously
supported the Dora Weiner
Foundation
(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and
Methadone at the American

Association for the Treatment of Opioid
Dependence I would like to
once again
thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new
project, “West Coast/East
Coast:
State of the Art.” The intent of this project
is to allow DWF
participation

in two conferences. The first sponsored by
the California Society
of Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October
where three presentations
on
ibogaine will delivered. The Drug Policy
Alliance (DPA) will sponsor
an
Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take
place in East Rutherford,
NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast:
State of the Art” Project
page for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to
fulfill it requirements
to this
multi-conference project. Contributions are
tax deductible and will
be
greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and
assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 7:54:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IMHO addicts/ex-addicts should be admitted for free. Treatment PimPs pay
double.

Patrick, get a copy of the backstage pass and have 1200 printed up.

better yet, make it a web-cast event. Have MV hardware stream it out to the
masses.

~d

— “jessica_w@ziplip.com” <jessica_w@ziplip.com> wrote:

All of this looks like a great line up and I’d love to attend the ibogaine
panel in the Meadowlands but the Drug Policy Alliance wants $450 at the door
or $350 in advance?

Who is this designed for? There is no way I can afford to pay $300 or $400 to
see one panel. If I could afford it I’m not sure I’d spend that much anyway
🙁

-jess

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 4:32 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required

This just made me LOL for minutes.

All right! Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and Returning Ibogaine to the
Drug Users 🙂

Not the usual ibogaine conference 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

I think people say a lot about other people they really do not know bro.
Dr. Mash is a really nice lady and I’ve always thought it was a great
reflection on her that someone she calls her son was a hardcore junkie
who had a treatment plan of going to Bangkok, blowing his brains out
with LSD and was saved by becoming a hardcore psychonaut 🙂

Both of them at the same conference are a trip 🙂 No drugs are bad speech,
no 12 steps, lot of treatment pimp rants from Patrick and white light
and dark side molecules. Right on, Right on! 🙂 If there was any
disagreement
I didn’t see it and they’re talking to the video cameras. The only
difference
is Patrick rants about Treatment Pimps, Dr. Mash says he is a exception
and talks about how most need after care.

I don’t think ‘the devil’s son’ ever left home. I think that maybe two
people thought it might be funny to have Healing Visions sponsor ‘Life
in the Psychedelic Ghetto’ 😉 😉 😉

Right on! Right on bro! Everytime I read this it gets funnier. 🙂

Howard when do we get to see the ibogaine dealers on every corner? ;-
) 🙂 🙂 🙂

This line up has made my day. Right on!

Peace out,
Curtis

markdreser@ziplip.com wrote:

Busy month for ibogaine. Been reading for months but taking my talks
to private email but this I can’t pass up.

Debra Mash and Stanley Glick. Dana Beal, Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa,
Howard Lotsof, Daniel Pinchbeck and Sandra Karpetas from Marc Emery.

Nothing with ibogaine surprises me but this surprises me. Patrick >giving
a talk called Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and you list your >affiliation
with Healing Visions instead of Mindvox?

Did a lot of money or stock change hands?
Is someone being blackmailed?
Did someone at last do so much LSD they broke what was left of their
mind?

You are the same Patrick who invented the slang Treatment Pimps
right? You are the same Patrick who has filled every issue of Heroin

Times with rants about drug treatment.

The devil’s son comes home. Now I’ve seen everything.

No way. This isn’t happening.

Patrick are you ok?

M.D.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 2:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required

To those list members who had previously supported the Dora Weiner
Foundation
(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and Methadone at the American

Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence I would like to
once again
thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new project, “West Coast/East
Coast:
State of the Art.” The intent of this project is to allow DWF
participation

in two conferences. The first sponsored by the California Society
of Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October where three presentations
on
ibogaine will delivered. The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) will sponsor
an
Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take place in East Rutherford,
NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast: State of the Art” Project
page for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to fulfill it requirements
to this
multi-conference project. Contributions are tax deductible and will
be
greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: “jessica_w@ziplip.com” <jessica_w@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 7:42:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All of this looks like a great line up and I’d love to attend the ibogaine panel in the Meadowlands but the Drug Policy Alliance wants $450 at the door or $350 in advance?

Who is this designed for? There is no way I can afford to pay $300 or $400 to see one panel. If I could afford it I’m not sure I’d spend that much anyway 🙁

-jess

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 4:32 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required

This just made me LOL for minutes.

All right! Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and Returning Ibogaine to the
Drug Users 🙂

Not the usual ibogaine conference 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

I think people say a lot about other people they really do not know bro.
Dr. Mash is a really nice lady and I’ve always thought it was a great
reflection on her that someone she calls her son was a hardcore junkie
who had a treatment plan of going to Bangkok, blowing his brains out
with LSD and was saved by becoming a hardcore psychonaut 🙂

Both of them at the same conference are a trip 🙂 No drugs are bad speech,
no 12 steps, lot of treatment pimp rants from Patrick and white light
and dark side molecules. Right on, Right on! 🙂 If there was any disagreement
I didn’t see it and they’re talking to the video cameras. The only difference
is Patrick rants about Treatment Pimps, Dr. Mash says he is a exception
and talks about how most need after care.

I don’t think ‘the devil’s son’ ever left home. I think that maybe two
people thought it might be funny to have Healing Visions sponsor ‘Life
in the Psychedelic Ghetto’ 😉 😉 😉

Right on! Right on bro! Everytime I read this it gets funnier. 🙂

Howard when do we get to see the ibogaine dealers on every corner? ;-
) 🙂 🙂 🙂

This line up has made my day. Right on!

Peace out,
Curtis

markdreser@ziplip.com wrote:

Busy month for ibogaine. Been reading for months but taking my talks
to private email but this I can’t pass up.

Debra Mash and Stanley Glick. Dana Beal, Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa,
Howard Lotsof, Daniel Pinchbeck and Sandra Karpetas from Marc Emery.

Nothing with ibogaine surprises me but this surprises me. Patrick >giving
a talk called Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and you list your >affiliation
with Healing Visions instead of Mindvox?

Did a lot of money or stock change hands?
Is someone being blackmailed?
Did someone at last do so much LSD they broke what was left of their
mind?

You are the same Patrick who invented the slang Treatment Pimps
right? You are the same Patrick who has filled every issue of Heroin

Times with rants about drug treatment.

The devil’s son comes home. Now I’ve seen everything.

No way. This isn’t happening.

Patrick are you ok?

M.D.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 2:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required

To those list members who had previously supported the Dora Weiner
Foundation
(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and Methadone at the American

Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence I would like to
once again
thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new project, “West Coast/East
Coast:
State of the Art.” The intent of this project is to allow DWF participation

in two conferences. The first sponsored by the California Society
of Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October where three presentations
on
ibogaine will delivered. The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) will sponsor
an
Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take place in East Rutherford,
NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast: State of the Art” Project
page for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to fulfill it requirements
to this
multi-conference project. Contributions are tax deductible and will
be
greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 7:47:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah it bums me out that the Ibogaine movement has encountered so many
lawsuits, back-stabbing and downright bullshit. All this does nothing for the
cause. I ain’t pointing the finger in ANY direction, it is what it is what it
is. Its probably like this when any pharmaceutical with potential for great
volumes of cubic cash enters the scene (or threatens existing paradigmz). alas,
the dope fiends still suffer. Isn’t that what it was about? Freeing the fiends?
Greed really fucks everything up.

But Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto sounds mighty fine to me and it all makes
perfect sense, in the end. After all none of this really matters once you hit
purple, anyways. But then there’s reality… whatever that is…

~d

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
This just made me LOL for minutes.

All right! Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and Returning Ibogaine to the
Drug Users 🙂

Not the usual ibogaine conference 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

I think people say a lot about other people they really do not know bro.
Dr. Mash is a really nice lady and I’ve always thought it was a great
reflection on her that someone she calls her son was a hardcore junkie
who had a treatment plan of going to Bangkok, blowing his brains out
with LSD and was saved by becoming a hardcore psychonaut 🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 6:54:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This just made me LOL for minutes.

All right! Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and Returning Ibogaine to the
Drug Users 🙂

Not the usual ibogaine conference 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

I think people say a lot about other people they really do not know bro.
Dr. Mash is a really nice lady and I’ve always thought it was a great
reflection on her that someone she calls her son was a hardcore junkie
who had a treatment plan of going to Bangkok, blowing his brains out
with LSD and was saved by becoming a hardcore psychonaut 🙂

Both of them at the same conference are a trip 🙂 No drugs are bad speech,
no 12 steps, lot of treatment pimp rants from Patrick and white light
and dark side molecules. Right on, Right on! 🙂 If there was any disagreement
I didn’t see it and they’re talking to the video cameras. The only difference
is Patrick rants about Treatment Pimps, Dr. Mash says he is a exception
and talks about how most need after care.

I don’t think ‘the devil’s son’ ever left home. I think that maybe two
people thought it might be funny to have Healing Visions sponsor ‘Life
in the Psychedelic Ghetto’ 😉 😉 😉

Right on! Right on bro! Everytime I read this it gets funnier. 🙂

Howard when do we get to see the ibogaine dealers on every corner? ;-
) 🙂 🙂 🙂

This line up has made my day. Right on!

Peace out,
Curtis

markdreser@ziplip.com wrote:

Busy month for ibogaine. Been reading for months but taking my talks
to private email but this I can’t pass up.

Debra Mash and Stanley Glick. Dana Beal, Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa,
Howard Lotsof, Daniel Pinchbeck and Sandra Karpetas from Marc Emery.

Nothing with ibogaine surprises me but this surprises me. Patrick >giving
a talk called Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and you list your >affiliation
with Healing Visions instead of Mindvox?

Did a lot of money or stock change hands?
Is someone being blackmailed?
Did someone at last do so much LSD they broke what was left of their
mind?

You are the same Patrick who invented the slang Treatment Pimps
right? You are the same Patrick who has filled every issue of Heroin

Times with rants about drug treatment.

The devil’s son comes home. Now I’ve seen everything.

No way. This isn’t happening.

Patrick are you ok?

M.D.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 2:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required

To those list members who had previously supported the Dora Weiner
Foundation
(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and Methadone at the American

Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence I would like to
once again
thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new project, “West Coast/East
Coast:
State of the Art.” The intent of this project is to allow DWF participation

in two conferences. The first sponsored by the California Society
of Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October where three presentations
on
ibogaine will delivered. The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) will sponsor
an
Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take place in East Rutherford,
NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast: State of the Art” Project
page for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to fulfill it requirements
to this
multi-conference project. Contributions are tax deductible and will
be
greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “markdreser@ziplip.com” <markdreser@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 6:04:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Busy month for ibogaine. Been reading for months but taking my talks to private email but this I can’t pass up.

Debra Mash and Stanley Glick. Dana Beal, Ken Alper, Patrick Kroupa, Howard Lotsof, Daniel Pinchbeck and Sandra Karpetas from Marc Emery.

Nothing with ibogaine surprises me but this surprises me. Patrick giving a talk called Life in the Psychedelic Ghetto and you list your affiliation with Healing Visions instead of Mindvox?

Did a lot of money or stock change hands?
Is someone being blackmailed?
Did someone at last do so much LSD they broke what was left of their mind?

You are the same Patrick who invented the slang Treatment Pimps right? You are the same Patrick who has filled every issue of Heroin Times with rants about drug treatment.

The devil’s son comes home. Now I’ve seen everything.

No way. This isn’t happening.

Patrick are you ok?

M.D.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003, 2:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required

To those list members who had previously supported the Dora Weiner Foundation
(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and Methadone at the American
Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence I would like to once again
thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new project, “West Coast/East Coast:
State of the Art.”  The intent of this project is to allow DWF participation
in two conferences. The first sponsored by the California Society of Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October where three presentations on
ibogaine will delivered.  The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) will sponsor an
Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take place in East Rutherford, NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast: State of the Art” Project page for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to fulfill it requirements to this
multi-conference project.  Contributions are tax deductible and will be
greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] assistance required
Date: September 6, 2003 at 5:23:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To those list members who had previously supported the Dora Weiner Foundation
(DWF) and myself to present on Ibogaine and Methadone at the American
Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence I would like to once again thank
you.

The Foundation is now proceeding with a new project, “West Coast/East Coast:
State of the Art.”  The intent of this project is to allow DWF participation
in two conferences. The first sponsored by the California Society of Addiction
Medicine (CSAM) will take place in October where three presentations on
ibogaine will delivered.  The Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) will sponsor an Ibogaine
Roundtable at their conference that will take place in East Rutherford, NJ in
November.

Please review our “West Coast/East Coast: State of the Art” Project page for
details on the conferences and presenters.
http://www.doraweiner.org/eastwest.html

A total of $7,500.00 is required for DWF to fulfill it requirements to this
multi-conference project.  Contributions are tax deductible and will be greatly
appreciated.

I look forward to your responses and assistance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 22 million Americans are addicts
Date: September 6, 2003 at 2:40:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How come the #1 (nicotine) and #2 (food/obesity/sugar)
addictions, which also happen to be the #1 and #2
causes of death are never included in “addictions” –
and that does not include doctor prescribed legal
drugs which seem to come in around #3. And ibogaine
and other substances are illegal, evil, the enemy,
what is wrong with America. Not that we have the
highest number of people in prisons per capita
(largely because of our evil drugs). causes much alarm
in the Press for the Land of the “Free”… Uh huh,
sure it is. They are right and we are wrong,
something is wrong with this picture.

Brett

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030906-120039-1281r.htm

22 million Americans are addicts

Around 22 million Americans were addicted to alcohol
or drugs last year,
according to a federal survey designed to capture
more accurate data about
substance abuse.
More than 9 percent of the population aged 12
and older has a serious
substance-abuse problem, Charles G. Curie,
administrator of the Substance
Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
(SAMHSA), said at a press
conference yesterday.
The most common addiction – with 14.9 million
people – was alcohol.
Another 3.9 million people were addicted to illegal
drugs and the remainder
were addicted to both drugs and alcohol, SAMHSA said
in its new National
Survey on Drug Use and Health.
snip-

so in other words, US prohibitionists are spending
billions of dollars every
year to chase some 3.9 million hard-core addicts
(not counting the
dual-addicted) in their War on Some Drugs and Users.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [CogLib] UDV Church likely to prevail in dispute over hallucinogenic tea
Date: September 6, 2003 at 11:37:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

UDV Church likely to prevail in dispute over hallucinogenic tea
(c) Associated Press 09.05.03
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/udv_10prelim.htm
**********************************************************
DENVER – A New Mexico church was handed a small victory yesterday when a
federal appeals court ruled its use of hallucinogenic tea was likely to
be protected under religious-freedom laws.

Here’s another case involving ayahuasca:

From: “Margot” <plantlady@amigo.net>
To: ayahuasca@yage.net

…  may I please direct everyone to www.divineassistance.net?  This
is a site which deals with a current legal case involving a friend of mine
and her husband who were busted by the DEA last summer for allegedly
receiving my favorite sacrament for a Peruvian shaman for his use while in
the U.S.  The case is currently in the pre-trial motion stage.  It was a
very, very traumatic incident for my friends, Naomi (a healer) and Jimmy (an
artist) and will continue to be emotionally and financially challenging
until it reaches resolution, which may take years.  Your good wishes and
prayers are very much appreciated.  We are working to make the site a source
of general information as well, though it is still in the early stages of
development.

Love and blessings to all who hve chosen this path,

Margot Willliams

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: [ibogaine] cognition
Date: September 6, 2003 at 11:29:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought some folks here may find this post from another list
interesting.

Bill Ross

From: “Barry G. Silverman” <barryg@seas.upenn.edu>
Subject: Breakdancing Arabs
Sender: owner-cognition_affect@cs.bham.ac.uk

Dear Colleagues,
A number of you wrote back very kind regards and shared interesting
experiences after my unexpected run in with Mardi Gras crowds last March,
and in response to my attempts to “scientifically” write up what happened.
As you may recall, I have been researching and modeling the impact of
stress and emotion upon rationality (subjective expected utility theory,
social decision conflict theory, somatic marker theory, stress and fatigue
models, cognitive complexity theory, etc.) over the past several years.
Recently I tried to implement these models in a videogame demonstration.

I was a little short on the animation budget, but we found some shareware
“breakdancing” arabs in a popular 1st person shooter videogame (Unreal
Tournament from EpicGames), and my crew in the lab slowed them down and
gave them a small library of non-dancing behaviors (e.g., observe, flee,
swarm, flock, attack, loot, blow themselves up, act as human shields,
etc.). Someone else (from USC/ICT) sent us a mockup of the Bakara Market
street scene and Black Hawk helicopter crash site. Using MS COM, we
embedded our model of personal utility processing (subject to stress,
emotion, and internal hierarchies of goals/standards/preferences) into each
Somalian agent so they could choose what behaviors satisfied their internal
objectives as the world around them evolved and as the player (a Ranger)
and his companions take actions in this world. Your goal as player is to
leave the Humvee, advance to the crash site, secure and destroy the
helicopter, and return safely without making tactical errors that arouse
the mobs and incur the wrath of the locals (my Somalian male, female, and
militia agents).

This agent modeling approach involves no scripting — only the estimation
of personal utilities or weights for outcomes in the world and how they
will impact the trees of individual agent’s desires, cultural identities,
and relationships (we also plan to use Monte Carlo simulations to study the
envelop of weights in each individual). The idea is entirely based around
studying how individuals’ micro-decisions can lead to the emergence of
group macro behaviors (equlibrium tipping). Unlike much of the swarm and
cellular automata types of agents, however, these results are for 3-D
agents in immersive, realtime worlds. The result is summarized in six video
clips just completed and viewable at the bottom of
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~barryg/HBMR.html. Anyone who actually wants to
play the levels is welcome to stop by and try their hand at it. Later this
semester I hope we can move it all to Norm Badler’s life size “LiveActor”
wall. Any videogame junkies out there?

One outcome of all this effort has been an award this summer of a
multi-year contract from a new sponsor whose name I can’t mention (or I’ll
have to kill you). I must admit its the first time that “breakdancing
arabs” have won me something of value.

Best Regards,
Barry

____________________________________________
Barry G. Silverman, Ph.D.
Professor of Engineering/SE & CIS, Wharton/OPIM, and Medicine
Director, Ackoff Center for Advancement of Systems Approaches (ACASA)
Towne Bldg, Rm 229c,  University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6315
http://www.acasa.upenn.edu/
(215)573-8368           FAX: (215)898-5020

–=====================_1131107176==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset=”iso-8859-1″
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
Dear Colleagues,<br>
A number of you wrote back very kind regards and shared interesting
experiences after my unexpected run in with Mardi Gras crowds last March,
and in response to my attempts to &quot;scientifically&quot; write up
what happened. As you may recall, I have been researching and modeling
the impact of stress and emotion upon rationality (subjective expected
utility theory, social decision conflict theory, somatic marker theory,
stress and fatigue models, cognitive complexity theory, etc.) over the
past several years. Recently I tried to implement these models in a
videogame demonstration.<br><br>
I was a little short on the animation budget, but we found some shareware
&quot;breakdancing&quot; arabs in a popular 1st person shooter videogame
(Unreal Tournament from EpicGames), and my crew in the lab slowed them
down and gave them a small library of non-dancing behaviors (e.g.,
observe, flee, swarm, flock, attack, loot, blow themselves up, act as
human shields, etc.). Someone else (from USC/ICT) sent us a mockup of the
Bakara Market street scene and Black Hawk helicopter crash site. Using MS
COM, we embedded our model of personal utility processing (subject to
stress, emotion, and internal hierarchies of goals/standards/preferences)
into each Somalian agent so they could choose what behaviors satisfied
their internal objectives as the world around them evolved and as the
player (a Ranger) and his companions take actions in this world. Your
goal as player is to leave the Humvee, advance to the crash site, secure
and destroy the helicopter, and return safely without making tactical
errors that arouse the mobs and incur the wrath of the locals (my
Somalian male, female, and militia agents). <br><br>
This agent modeling approach involves no scripting — only the estimation
of personal utilities or weights for outcomes in the world and how they
will impact the trees of individual agent’s desires, cultural identities,
and relationships (we also plan to use Monte Carlo simulations to study
the envelop of weights in each individual). The idea is entirely based
around studying how individuals’ micro-decisions can lead to the
emergence of group macro behaviors (equlibrium tipping). Unlike much of
the swarm and cellular automata types of agents, however, these results
are for 3-D agents in immersive, realtime worlds. The result is
summarized in six video clips just completed and viewable at the bottom
of
<a href=3D”http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~barryg/HBMR.html” eudora=3D”autourl”>h=
ttp://www.seas.upenn.edu/~barryg/HBMR.html</a>.
Anyone who actually wants to play the levels is welcome to stop by and
try their hand at it. Later this semester I hope we can move it all to
Norm Badler’s life size &quot;LiveActor&quot; wall. Any videogame junkies
out there?<br><br>
One outcome of all this effort has been an award this summer of a
multi-year contract from a new sponsor whose name I can’t mention (or
I’ll have to kill you). I must admit its the first time that
&quot;breakdancing arabs&quot; have won me something of value. <br><br>
Best Regards,<br>
Barry<br><br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
____________________________________________<br>
Barry G. Silverman, Ph.D. <br>
Professor of Engineering/SE &amp; CIS, Wharton/OPIM, and Medicine<br>
Director, <font color=3D”#0000FF”><u>Ackoff Center for Advancement of
Systems Approaches (ACASA)<br>
</u></font>Towne Bldg, Rm 229c,&nbsp; University of Pennsylvania <br>
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6315<br>
<a href=3D”http://www.acasa.upenn.edu/”=
eudora=3D”autourl”>http://www.acasa.upenn.edu/</a><br>
(215)573-8368
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;</x-tab>FAX:
(215)898-5020<br>
</html>

–=====================_1131107176==.ALT–

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 22 million Americans are addicts
Date: September 6, 2003 at 10:30:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030906-120039-1281r.htm

22 million Americans are addicts

Around 22 million Americans were addicted to alcohol or drugs last year,
according to a federal survey designed to capture more accurate data about
substance abuse.
More than 9 percent of the population aged 12 and older has a serious
substance-abuse problem, Charles G. Curie, administrator of the Substance
Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), said at a press
conference yesterday.
The most common addiction – with 14.9 million people – was alcohol.
Another 3.9 million people were addicted to illegal drugs and the remainder
were addicted to both drugs and alcohol, SAMHSA said in its new National
Survey on Drug Use and Health.
snip-

so in other words, US prohibitionists are spending billions of dollars every
year to chase some 3.9 million hard-core addicts (not counting the
dual-addicted) in their War on Some Drugs and Users. Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [CogLib] UDV Church likely to prevail in dispute over hallucinogenic tea
Date: September 6, 2003 at 9:30:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,
Good news.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “CCLE” <info@cognitiveliberty.org>
To: <cognitiveliberty@igc.topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 2:31 AM
Subject: [CogLib] UDV Church likely to prevail in dispute over
hallucinogenic tea

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*********************************************************
UDV Church likely to prevail in dispute over hallucinogenic tea
(c) Associated Press 09.05.03
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/udv_10prelim.htm
**********************************************************
DENVER – A New Mexico church was handed a small victory yesterday when a
federal appeals court ruled its use of hallucinogenic tea was likely to
be protected under religious-freedom laws.

The 2-1 ruling by a three-judge panel of the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals in Denver, upheld a preliminary injunction against the U.S.
attorney general, the Drug Enforcement Administration and other
government agencies that sought to prohibit the tea’s use.

The panel majority agreed with the U.S. District Court in New Mexico
that the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal
church had “demonstrated a substantial likelihood of success” of winning
an exemption for sacramental use of the tea, which contains a drug
barred by the Controlled Substances Act.

Jeffrey Bronfman, president of the church, sued the Justice Department
alleging, among other claims, violations of the First Amendment and the
federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Bronfman sued after 30
gallons of hoasca tea were seized by U.S. Customs agents from his office
in Santa Fe, N.M. No one was arrested in the 1999 raid.

Hoasca tea, used in some religious ceremonies, is brewed from plants
found only in the Amazon River Basin.

The church originated in Brazil and its U.S. operations are based in
Santa Fe. About 130 people, many of them Brazilian citizens, are members
of the U.S. branch, according to court documents.

[The Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics (www.cognitiveliberty.org)
provided legal research assistance to the U.D.V. Church arguing that
neither the plants that comprise ayahuasca, nor the tea itself, are
controlled substances. See:
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/udv_pj_granted.htm ]

See Also:

UDV case documents

CCLE Drug Law Library: Ayahuasca

CCLE Entheogen and Drug Policy Project

Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics (ccle)
Protecting the Limitless Potential of the Human Mind.
cognitive liberty FAQ | www.cognitiveliberty/faqs/faq_general.htm
ccle membership | www.cognitiveliberty.org/membership.html
general info | www.cognitiveliberty.org

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage OOPS
Date: September 6, 2003 at 9:20:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

funny, I just sent out the following note yesterday to the DrugWar list (I
forget about the ibogaine list sometimes- my bad) –

Hi all,
Here is yet another example of prohibitionists using the shoddiest of
science to bolster their scaremongering anti-drug stories and practices.
This note below about MDMA comes to us from Rick Doblin, executive
director of MAPS (http://www.maps.org), who also sent me a presentation
explaining the “MDMA causes holes in brains” fraud from the US
prohibitionistic government, which some pundits and luminaries, such as
Oprah Winfrey, helped perpetuate.
Anyway, thought I’d pass this along for food for thought and in case
anyone wants to do a little research about the alleged Parkinson’s link to
MDMA. It is an interesting story, in that MDMA has been found to actually
counteract some of the physical disabilities wrought by Parkinson’s itself.
Damn prohibitionists. This reminds me of the discovery that THC seems to
attack some types of cancer cells, discovered way back in the mid-70s then
covered up by the US government until some researchers in Spain (I think I
remember correctly) recently discovered the same thing, a couple years back
now.
Some drug or other is found to be beneficial in some specific way, so
the prohibitionists find some way of presenting the “evidence” in such a way
as to report the exact opposite conclusion to that found by the actual
research. The Bush admin has also done it for the WTC air safety reports,
global warming reports, ummm, Iraq reports, drugs = terror reports- gee,
this could turn into a really long list.
Peace,
Preston

from Rick Doblin at MAPS.org >The story is getting
better all the time. In a week or two, the journal Science will issue a
letter
from George Ricaurte retracting his paper claiming that MDMA causes
dopaminergic
neurotoxicity in primates and that people are at risk of getting
Parkinson’s.
Turns out he mistakenly administered methamphetamine to his primates, not
MDMA. When he tried to replicate his findings with oral MDMA, as opposed to
what
he thought was injected MDMA (but was really meth), he couldn’t find any
dopaminergic neurotoxicity. So not only are his findings bogus but he has
shown
that MDMA doesn’t damage dopamine neurons.  Furthermore, he should have
known
this all along since he ignored human data showing no dopamine problems in
his
rush to demonize MDMA.<

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>; <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 9:25 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage OOPS

Looks to me like they got caught making up stories.
Oops, wrong bottle, sure it was…
Brett

Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030905/sc_nm/science_retraction_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Researchers horrified to find
they had used a mislabeled bottle in an experiment
retracted their findings on Friday, saying they had
failed to show the drug Ecstasy can cause a certain
pattern of brain damage.

Their original report, published in September 2002,
said they had found Parkinson’s disease (news – web
sites)-like damage in the brains of monkeys injected
with Ecstasy. or MDMA.

“The authors recently discovered that the drug used to
treat all but one animal in that report came from a
bottle that contained methamphetamine instead of the
intended drug, MDMA (‘Ecstasy’),” the American
Association for the Advancement of Science (news – web
sites), which published the study in its journal
Science, said in a statement.

Neurologists Dr. Una McCann, Dr. George Ricaurte and
colleagues at Johns Hopkins University School of
Medicine in Baltimore said their experiment in fact
showed nothing surprising.

“Notably, methamphetamine would be expected to produce
the same pattern of combined … neurotoxicity as that
seen in the animals reported in our paper,” they wrote
in a letter to Science.

They found that 60 percent to 80 percent of the nerve
endings of dopamine-producing neurons in the monkeys
were destroyed after just a few doses. These are the
same brain cells destroyed in Parkinson’s disease,
which starts out with a mild shakiness that progresses
to near-paralysis.

The researchers said they became suspicious when they
were unable to duplicate their original findings.

They had the original bottles tested and found nothing
suspicious — but the original Ecstasy-labeled bottle
had been thrown out.

But “we did have frozen brains from two animals that
died shortly after drug treatment,” they wrote.

They analyzed the brains and found they contained
methamphetamine only. “Not even trace amounts of MDMA
or its metabolite MDA were found in these brains,”
they wrote.

They determined that the original bottle had been
mislabeled.

They noted that the idea remained valid because other
studies have shown that Ecstasy users can develop
Parkinson’s disease-like symptoms.

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage OOPS
Date: September 5, 2003 at 9:25:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Looks to me like they got caught making up stories.
Oops, wrong bottle, sure it was…
Brett

Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030905/sc_nm/science_retraction_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Researchers horrified to find
they had used a mislabeled bottle in an experiment
retracted their findings on Friday, saying they had
failed to show the drug Ecstasy can cause a certain
pattern of brain damage.

Their original report, published in September 2002,
said they had found Parkinson’s disease (news – web
sites)-like damage in the brains of monkeys injected
with Ecstasy. or MDMA.

“The authors recently discovered that the drug used to
treat all but one animal in that report came from a
bottle that contained methamphetamine instead of the
intended drug, MDMA (‘Ecstasy’),” the American
Association for the Advancement of Science (news – web
sites), which published the study in its journal
Science, said in a statement.

Neurologists Dr. Una McCann, Dr. George Ricaurte and
colleagues at Johns Hopkins University School of
Medicine in Baltimore said their experiment in fact
showed nothing surprising.

“Notably, methamphetamine would be expected to produce
the same pattern of combined … neurotoxicity as that
seen in the animals reported in our paper,” they wrote
in a letter to Science.

They found that 60 percent to 80 percent of the nerve
endings of dopamine-producing neurons in the monkeys
were destroyed after just a few doses. These are the
same brain cells destroyed in Parkinson’s disease,
which starts out with a mild shakiness that progresses
to near-paralysis.

The researchers said they became suspicious when they
were unable to duplicate their original findings.

They had the original bottles tested and found nothing
suspicious — but the original Ecstasy-labeled bottle
had been thrown out.

But “we did have frozen brains from two animals that
died shortly after drug treatment,” they wrote.

They analyzed the brains and found they contained
methamphetamine only. “Not even trace amounts of MDMA
or its metabolite MDA were found in these brains,”
they wrote.

They determined that the original bottle had been
mislabeled.

They noted that the idea remained valid because other
studies have shown that Ecstasy users can develop
Parkinson’s disease-like symptoms.

__________________________________
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list
Date: September 5, 2003 at 7:47:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for replying to me at length bro. I did not get unsprung with
ibogaine but kicked the old fashioned way and did not even know ibogaine
existed until a year later when I found it through phantom.com. I spent
6 months smoking cannabis and doing shrooms. It was not fun but I have
about 2 and a half years now.

I love what ibo did for me without even the detox. It has let me accept
a lot of things and if I had to say the one big thing it did, it was
let me let go of a lot of my fear. I still have not done LSD after ibo
but I am no longer so scared of it as I was before. I do not have any
huge dose in mind and I’m not even looking to do it at any time in particular
I only know when it comes into my life again I will be there 🙂

Doing ibo to clean up and then dosing with GHB and walking through Italy
sure beats kicking in northern California without ibogaine 😉

Never did make those 90 in 90. Maybe 2 in 90 before I got to ‘f*ck that
I’m unhappy enough’ 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exciting questions for rooT
Date: September 5, 2003 at 7:39:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Love the dragon picture. The problem bro is not that all of you kill
the 60,000 daily messages in root or that your mail filters are set up
to throw almost all your mail in the garbage without ever reading it.
The problem bro is that you haven’t replied to one letter I’ve sent in
6 months. You should fix that! 😉

The error for this http://www.rotten.com/staff/~gweeds is really funny.

What’s more funny is that you people have got ibogaine tagged into rotten.
I do not know what that means. But look at this.
http://www.rotten.com/search/

Go down below contact and select what looks like the white space but
is white letter on a white background

“This is a message to any cells who answer to the code key IBOGAINE:
The masseuse has your transmitter. Send the message query IXTAPA and
wait for the third tap. Dial 9 and you will be told how to proceed.”

Peace out,
Curtis

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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Exciting questions for rooT
Date: September 5, 2003 at 4:59:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahum …

Sobig, Blaster, etc, Make Micro$oft faw down, go bo0m, hurt itself, rain
down crap all over whole entire internet.  <SplaT>  Bummer mahn.

All this shit:

5 N + 09/05 ESMARTINS2@BKB. ( 98K) Re: Your application

Are automated responses to rejected mail, containing a virus, which some
Windoze usin’ person is infected with.  Which sets off another tidal wave
of crap, as auto-responses bounce to auto-responses.

To the people on these two lists, who keep sending shit to root, asking
what all of this is, and then wonder why nobody ever replies.

Well, THIS is why.  Root gets roughly 60,000 pieces of mail a day.  A
script sorts through it, pulls the error logs, and tosses everything else
into /dev/null.

It is not parsing the Sobig fallout.  It just throws it away.

In other words: nobody ever reads it.  Nobody will ever read it.  In fact,
every 24 hours, it ceases to exist altogether and vanishes from the prime
material plane.

Please don’t send mail to root.  Or, go right ahead.  Either action will
generate an identical non-response.

The answer to the question, “What is all this shit?”

Well, it’s a buncha crap.  Hit delete, tune your filters, or write
hatemail to Micro$oft.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.  All further requests for
customer assistance should be directed to:

gweeds@rotten.com
http://www.rotten.com/staff/~gweeds

PatricK

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list
Date: September 5, 2003 at 12:35:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well, it was a positive experience for me. I just hesitate to blatantly say:
here -try this at home.

The GHB helped me tremendously, I don’t know why I never mentioned this much
before, it took the torn edges of post-acute withdrawal and smoothed them out.
It helped me to relax and sleep. It helped with post-treatment anxiety (which
went something like “holy shit, I’m freaking out, I just went to heaven, hell
and all corners of the universe and died and was reborn all in 18 hours flat. I
don’t feel dopesick but man I’m sure it’s just around the corner…” and “what
the hell am I gonna do with ME? – who the hell is ME anyways? I haven’t seen ME
in like 8 years” and all that shit. I only used GHB for about 2 weeks, usually
one dose of 30ml in the evening to wind down. My days were spent exhaustingly
wandering the cobblestone streets and Piazzas of italy. It was cool, but man
was it weird. It sure beat staring at a mural sized poster of the 12 steps for
30/60/90 days.

The effects of GHB for me was like a good alcohol buzz, without the toxicity,
foolish behavior or the hangover.

Um, I never tried GHB before my ibo experience.

If you are reffering to how was ibo different that previous attempts/methods of
kicking… let me count the ways. Dood, I’m too fried to answer that in detail,
I think in summary Ibo gave me self awareness that I am a spiritual being, and
it gave me insights as to how my dis-ease manifested itself in the first place:
I never felt safe as a child and drugs made me feel safe. Now a good shrink or
friend could probably have come to that conclusion quickly, but I was plagued
by social workers who either wanted to get in my pants or who were total
fuckheads who didn’t understand the first thing about addiction. Or both. And I
wasn’t seeing it. Ibo gently but firmly took me back to the root instance, and
all the branches of the paths and wanderings i followed in my life, to where I
was at that time, tripping on Ibogaine and I suddenly knew I no longer had to
be afraid, that I could build my own safety zone without dope, and that
everything was going to work out.

Of course I had to go and test the whole thing, but thats another story.

~dh

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro I am most interested in your experience with GHB post ibo. How was
it for you? You are posting about it in a good way so I would think that
it worked out nicely. I have never done this so I am wondering what it
did for you and how was it different then when you did not do ibo before?

DXM hasn’t ever done anything for me that I would rate as good. It makes
me drowsy and I did give it a try a few times when I was still trying
to kick cold turkey and didn’t know about ibogaine to get unsprung.

Peace out,
Curtis

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list
Date: September 4, 2003 at 8:17:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro I am most interested in your experience with GHB post ibo. How was
it for you? You are posting about it in a good way so I would think that
it worked out nicely. I have never done this so I am wondering what it
did for you and how was it different then when you did not do ibo before?

DXM hasn’t ever done anything for me that I would rate as good. It makes
me drowsy and I did give it a try a few times when I was still trying
to kick cold turkey and didn’t know about ibogaine to get unsprung.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:52:16 -0700 Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:

One thing that I’m not even sure if I’ve ever mentioned here on
the list was
that in the couple weeks post ibo (while I was still over-seas)
a friend gave
me some freshly brewed GHB which really helped with the exhuastion
and the
post-methadonian torn and tattered edges. I think the dose was somewhere
around
30ml mixed into juice. GHB made wrong can be BAD and I’m certainly
not
recomending anyone go out and score some GHB. I repeat, Kids don’t
try this at
home. GHB-another helpful substance outlawed by pharmacists in high
places
-thanks to them we get to worry about iffy bath-tub batches of many
substances.

Do keep us posted wether the DXM kick sticks with you.

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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise
Date: September 4, 2003 at 11:31:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

keep on keeping on, Allison. It really wasn’t that long ago when I was posting
the very same questions you are now.

the only way out of the snake pit is through it. unless you are Indiana Jones,
or the son of a very rich texas oil tycoon ex-president-type person. hmmm, did
I say that? I did, didn’t I? or maybe it was my dis-ease.

~dh

— Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Thanks to all of you who replied and gave suggestions.  Will keep on keeping
on.  Tis good to hear some positive stuff as it all helps.  Ta very much.
Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 4 September 2003 6:31:56 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise

I’m less sure about this, but it seems that in not showering that the
sickness that comes out of pores with sweat will eventually obsorb
back into the skin if not washed.  I don’t know about you but i am
still sweating constantly,

going to a Finnish sauna as often as possible did help me quite a lot
when withdrawing h or metha.
the unconfortable mixture of sweating and freezing dissappears for a
few hours afterwards and muscels and joints feel better.
also i believe it speeds up the depoisoning.

steam sauna is not so recommended, because its quite demanding on your
circulation.

-ekki

.

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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise
Date: September 4, 2003 at 7:06:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to all of you who replied and gave suggestions.  Will keep on keeping on.  Tis good to hear some positive stuff as it all helps.  Ta very much.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thursday, 4 September 2003 6:31:56 a.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise

>
> I’m less sure about this, but it seems that in not showering that the
> sickness that comes out of pores with sweat will eventually obsorb
> back into the skin if not washed.  I don’t know about you but i am
> still sweating constantly,

going to a Finnish sauna as often as possible did help me quite a lot
when withdrawing h or metha.
the unconfortable mixture of sweating and freezing dissappears for a
few hours afterwards and muscels and joints feel better.
also i believe it speeds up the depoisoning.

steam sauna is not so recommended, because its quite demanding on your
circulation.

-ekki

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise
Date: September 3, 2003 at 2:54:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

mirroring previous responses…

-steady excercise (even walking, especially early in the day)

-Healthy Diet (bad food WILL make you feel like shit)

-Hot Showers and Baths (gonna wash that dope right outta my hair)

-Time (!)

-Doing some sort of hobby or pass-time that you really like. This does not
include socializing with your pals at the shooting gallery to ‘splain how
ibogaine works.

Realistically, it took me till the 9 month mark till I started feeling normal
(whatever that means) BUT, I thougt I felt pretty good at 30 days out, 4
months, 6 months, etc etc so It kept getting better – when it was like 18
months then I REALLY felt well. This was coming off aprox 40mgs methadone,
height of dose was 80mgs spread over 4 years time, with another 4-5 years of
speedballing prior to that. with a few flashes of absitnence sprinkled
throughout (you know those, run off to the mountains and kick attempts, my
record being 5 days, i think)

blah blah blah etc, so-forth, ad nauseum.

Considering you have Hep C that defiately adds a wild card, I do know there are
certain things to avoid with HepC, and diet is really important. But there’s
probably another listserve for that.

Oh Yeah: from what I understand: Bleach does not kill the Heo C virus.

~Gamma

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise
Date: September 3, 2003 at 2:31:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m less sure about this, but it seems that in not showering that the sickness that comes out of pores with sweat will eventually obsorb back into the skin if not washed.  I don’t know about you but i am still sweating constantly,

going to a Finnish sauna as often as possible did help me quite a lot when withdrawing h or metha.
the unconfortable mixture of sweating and freezing dissappears for a few hours afterwards and muscels and joints feel better.
also i believe it speeds up the depoisoning.

steam sauna is not so recommended, because its quite demanding on your circulation.

-ekki

From: deartheo@ziplip.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] exhaustion vs. exercise
Date: September 3, 2003 at 10:31:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison,
I am currently kicking methadone as well, (no hepc though, luckily i washed the needle with bleach before sharing with someone who was infected).
I wish i didn’t, but have experienced very much the exhaustion you speak of.
I’m not sure how long you were on the poison, or what you daily dose of poison was; but our natural endorphines have been out of work for quite some time, and the only way to get them up and running again is through excercise/positiveACTION.  I know it is like exercising with a bad flu and doing it with music seems to help me.  I know when I don’t feel well rested the last thing i want to do is move.  I’ll be honest, i don’t get it done everyday, i have good days and bad days, but i know too many people who kicked; and if they exercised they likely survived the sickness, most times if they didn’t constant sickness would finally break them into surrendering back, not thinking that the same opioid that temp. takes away the sickness is the same thing that causes the sickness.
I’m glad you wrote because i’ve been having a string of bad days myself and not getting enough done; “the only way around this shit is through”, “and now the weak must get strong, their singing ‘oh what a tribulation'”
I’m less sure about this, but it seems that in not showering that the sickness that comes out of pores with sweat will eventually obsorb back into the skin if not washed.  I don’t know about you but i am still sweating constantly,
I sinceerly hope you start feeling better soon.

90 day sickness/180 days in American jail

Constant.
Re-Birthing.
All for a two second high
Like a over-rated orgasm
Coursing through veins.
Chemistry starts to change
Setting blood on fire.
Set that (man) on fire
With smoldering cold-burns.
Have a hangover.
Make it a double.
“That habit kick man”
Ticket to nothingness.

Swimming upstream.
Swimming against current rapids.

Hope
He’s not too exhausted
By the time he
Gets to swim
In calm waters.
“Every man thinks his burden is the heaviest.”
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 03 Sep 03, 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list
What does the dextro relate to.  I know that dextromethorphan is a cough suppressant OTC.   Then you get dextropropoxyphene and dextromoramide and probably others.  Just wondering.  Also.  Anyone out there have any really good remedies for this exhaustion from coming off methadone and having hep C and generally feeling like I just want to sleep and make it all go away.  I did think about trying to exercise to get the body working its own self but am just too tired.  Am taking milk thistle tablets, vitamin B, eating as much as poss and sleeping so much but still feel like shit and have lost about a stone or so of weight.  I wasn’t very big in the first place and am now just looking scraggy (charming I’m sure)/  any helpful suggestions would be good.   Thanks Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 3 September 2003 3:18:50 p.
To: ibogaine@ibogaine.org; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Dextromethorphan detox From another list

I am passing on some info on using DXM –
detxtromethorphan, a widely available OTC cough
additive which is an anti-addictive, and a
hallucinogenic – or disassociative, whatever, IT WAS
STRANGE, and long, and it sucked but it worked and OUR
KIDS CAN GET THIS STUFF EVERY DAY, which is like no
kidding and is used cause it also puts kiddies to
sleep quite nicely, like the illegal but legal in
baby-food l-tryptophan. In fact you can get high on
tryptophan come to think of it (I tried everything I
could think of and get my hands on – once upon
time…). Humm, thinking Patrick is rubbing off on me.

Any thoughts out there to using DXM post ibogaine
treatment? Anyone try it, I don’t know of anyone but
it has come up in the past. From what I have read DXM
is very effective but seems to often get dismissed out
of hand – an OTC cough syrup, nah… shooting dope
instead is a popular solution though.

DXM might be of help to the patient returning from ibo
treatment (coutry where such treatment is legal) and
experienceing residual withdrawal symptoms while home
in a country where ibo is illegal.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm.shtml

Thoughts to DXM post ibo tx and see the below post
about treating opioid addiction with DXM?

Brett
— “Dr. Kalbe Abbas” <kabbas@BRAIN.NET.PK> wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Add_Med] Rapid Detox with Bup
>
> Dear Peter,
> Hi, This is one of the most humane methods of detox.
> It is a non-addicting
> Opioid (it has no pain killing properties) and
> occupy opioid receptors
> causing absence of major withdrawal symptoms. There
> is further action on
> NMDA receptors which causes long term cessation
> behavior.
> I use the following protocol:
> DXM 30mg qid for 4 days (where the opioid dose is
> above average 60mg qid)
> than 30 mg tds
> than bd
> than od
> Supportive medicines are Bruffen 600mg + Buscopan +
> phenobarb 30 – 60mg +
> prozac 20mg
> Results are excellent
> With best regards
> Kalbe
> —– Original Message —–
> From: <Hypopg@AOL.COM>
> To: <ADD_MED@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 7:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Add_Med] Rapid Detox with Bup
>
>
> > Kalbe:
> >
> > I am curious about your Dextromethorphan detox.
> You say it is a seven day
> > detox.
> > How do you conduct it, doses, supporting meds,
> etc? How have patients done
> on
> > it?
> >
> > Peter Garber MD
> >

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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Took Bait
Date: September 3, 2003 at 9:26:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Deep pool, indeed…

Like the Rabbit Hole
“…see how it runs”
Pulling wool from off our eyes
We See
Shoveled shit
…spikes in arms
…MTV, CNN, CSPAN, UHF, VHF, FCC, CIA, FBI, DOJ.
Each layer little more than lie within a lie.

Jack-booted goose-step
“We’re from the government…we’re here to help you.”
…and the check is in the mail, I love you forever, and of course I’ll respect you in the morning…but “hell if it’s mine.”

spiralling down
arm-in-arm
Unconnected-Linked-Together-Tarzans
diving deeply into the Abyss
Blatting screach of cockroach roar
Overwhelming odds

But
Knife-in-mouth
As ONE
Sweating madman, dope-fiend, punk
Housewife, hustler, atheist, priest
…our blades find purchase in fetid flesh
The Belly of the Beast.

…and thus, the ants arose:
By sheer force of numbers, they tore them down
…plundering those who dared to live as Gods.
______________________________________
Stay the course…keep chewing…bite off more…share what you know.

deartheo@ziplip.com 09/03/03 02:31AM >>>
2003.09.01@05:48
Took Bait

I once dove

Headfirst into the unknown.

So I must dive

Into this pool of

Roaches.  Tickling hair-like limbs

In rhythm to a music box

Memory

of wombs, lullabies and

compassion.

vs.    dukka.

Iboga          vs.    methadone.

“One and all got to face reality now.”

Too much fear in the people

Of the United Police States of America.

Re-elect C.I.A. child will protect.

“I’ll protect you”

Says the slave owner.

“A war neither likely, nor designed to succeed.”

Bit off more bait then I could chew.

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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: Dextromethorphan d