Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-05

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: June 1, 2005 at 12:16:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thankyou for that clarity.  We never would’ve figured it out. :]
tink(sick fux inc)

On 5/31/05, Schmoolyboy@aol.com <Schmoolyboy@aol.com> wrote:
The Fang are also not tweeked sick junkies who abused their bodies with
crack and speed and a shit load of psych drugs that interact with ibogaine.

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 31, 2005 at 11:28:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Fang are also not tweeked sick junkies who abused their bodies with crack and speed and a shit load of psych drugs that interact with ibogaine.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Bwiti Practices
Date: May 31, 2005 at 11:27:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

some of you guys reallydon’t know what you are talking about. Ibogaine lowers blood pressure and slows pulse.

It was used as a B.P. med in france years ago. It has a load of very complex cardiac side effects and if you have 20 or so years of medical education, you could understand it.

From: Fire3456@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it …
Date: May 31, 2005 at 10:35:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Tink,

The same happened to me.  Dropping from 16 to 2 didn’t seem to hard.  From 2 down to 1 mg per day was a lot harder and took more time than I expected.  I’m going to a DR to get some meds to assist with the final w/d’s I will be having.

What kind of schedule do you have to taper down from the 2mgs your at now?

My plan is to taper off in 3 weeks.  Then try and stay clean.  And then take vacation from work.  I’m going to try a maintenance dose of Ibogaine at that time.  After I’ve been off the Sub for at least 3 weeks.

Good luck!

In a message dated 05/31/2005 12:27:52 PM Central Daylight Time, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:
I was on 20 and dropped to 8 in two weeks, and it took my body and
brain about another 2 weeks to catch up with me  I was down to 2 mgs,
and it sucks far more at the lower dose when it comes to withdrawal.
It’s always those last few mgs that kick my ass.  it takes about 4
days to really feel the effect of the kick form it, or at least for
me.  yucka.
love tink
thax howard/fire3456

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: May 31, 2005 at 9:54:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was out of line. It’s Jason’s usual plea for attention like
constantly snipping at Dana Beal.

He’s trolling.

Maybe he had a worse then usual day.

I’m not the most mature person, I post off topic, guilty as charged but
that was more like the spirit of a prison rape, then ibogaine.

Jason I really don’t care how wise you are in your own mind, how much
methadone you’ve been on, what drugs you’ve done. I haven’t wasted my
whole life like you, it must suck, I’m sorry for you. In case you don’t
get it, none of that makes you cool, it makes you a socially retarded
dumbass.

I know you aren’t here for anyone but yourself and don’t owe anyone
anything like you like to say all the time (what about all the people
who spent their time treating you and getting you off methadone?).

Maybe you need to do more ibogaine or light a candle for yourself. That
was pathetic.

.:vector:.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
OK, thats it, I can’t take this shit without sayin’ sumpin’. Is this

some kind of attempt at starting a useless thread about absolutely
nothing? OK I’m game. Let’s figure out what the Inuits are getting
high on. Think about it. These people are sitting on ice and they
look higher than a rats ass on Kilimanjaro. Just what the hell are
they doing for a buzz?  Randy

__________________________________
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Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: May 31, 2005 at 9:34:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The sun drips slowly down the edges of the mountains, lighting the
bark of the tree that sits lonely at the edge of the cliff.  As the
light refracts back on stone, a seam in the rock wall pulses a dull
blue, as if beckoning me to enter.  I feel along the edges, and feel
nothing but cold roughness.  I still can’t figure out what these
Inuits are doing when they slip out of the igloo, but they won’t quit
giggling, and it’s beginning to piss me off.   I lean against the rock
wall, and suddenly am engulfed.  I don’t slpi through, I don’t fall
in, I am simply engulfed.  It’s dark and moist and pulsating, and i
can feel the tingle rippling through my body, but I am definately not
giggling yet.  Fuckin Inuits…

On 5/31/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
OK, thats it, I can’t take this shit without sayin’ sumpin’. Is this some
kind of attempt at starting a useless thread about absolutely nothing? OK
I’m game. Let’s figure out what the Inuits are getting high on. Think about
it. These people are sitting on ice and they look higher than a rats ass on
Kilimanjaro. Just what the hell are they doing for a buzz?  Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: May 31, 2005 at 9:26:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, thats it, I can’t take this shit without sayin’ sumpin’. Is this some kind of attempt at starting a useless thread about absolutely nothing? OK I’m game. Let’s figure out what the Inuits are getting high on. Think about it. These people are sitting on ice and they look higher than a rats ass on Kilimanjaro. Just what the hell are they doing for a buzz?  Randy

From: “basel novo” <baselnovo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 31, 2005 at 8:59:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Rick Strcat” <rickstrcat@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 05:31:07 +0000

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:48:08 -0700

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

Thanks very much for the info.  If you could describe the effects at that low dosage, especially changes in blood pressure and pulse rate (if any), that would be really helpful.

Btw, the reason I’m asking is that I’m still trying to figure out whether the medical concerns about iboga self-treatment essentially go away at the dosage levels you describe.  Comments on this from anyone are welcome.  Thanks.

Thanks.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
>have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
>Any responses would be really welcome.
>
>Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
>addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
>take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
>If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
>low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
>serious
>withdrawals but lots of craving.
>
>Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
>days
>for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
>with
>experience with this, especially with self-treatment.
>
>Thanks.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
>it’s FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: May 31, 2005 at 7:34:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What a charming and witty person you are, I’m sure you have many
friends and are a big hit with the ladies.

Trickster may be a aspiration, but no need to flatter yourself. From
what I’ve read here from you, you’ve made it as far as village idiot.
If that was your goal, congratulations.

KV

On 5/31/05, Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am power tripping and acting like
egomaniac

Carla never talks to anyone directly and looks like she isn’t living any of
advice she keeps giving.

I need to get laid more.  I will go pee on myself now.
Carla B

(this won’t make Dana or Ben’s newletter)

I consider Carla therapy  a total luxury really, having someone be
interested in all the little
dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: PSYTOPIA PSYCHEDELIC FESTIVAL
Date: May 31, 2005 at 6:41:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This looks like a lot of fun- too bad I can’t afford a trip to Jamaica. I’d go simply to see Ozric Tenticles and My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult.
And for the beaches and to experience Jamaica itself, since I’ve never been. Ah well, nEXt time of course, once I’m rolling in lots of money from all those best sellers I’m cranking out (not to mention starring roles in all those amazingly great films I’m gonna be starring in sooner than later) in my lifetime.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: webmaster@hightimes.com
To: thmq@hightimes.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 3:54 PM
Subject: PSYTOPIA PSYCHEDELIC FESTIVAL

PSYTOPIA PSYCHEDELIC FESTIVAL

August 17-23, 2005

HIGH TIMES is proud to announce we will be a sponsor of an amazing event this summer called Psytopia (http://www.psytopia.org) — a 7 day psychedelic festival in Jamaica at the Hedonism III & Breezer Bay Resorts on Aug 17-23, 2005. Psytopia will be a 24/7 event unlike anything you’ve ever experienced before, including live music, speakers and presenters brought together from around the globe to help raise money for some high-minded charities. This year’s event will benefit NORML, MAPS, The Albert Hofmann Foundation and The Drug Policy Alliance.

FOR MORE INFORMATION & TO SIGN UP VISIT:
http://www.psytopia.org/

SCHEDULED TO APPEAR:
Alex Grey
Art Fusion Experiment (Feat. Paul Booth, Guy Aitchison, & Filip Leu)
Arj, Doug, and Tony from Marijuana Logues
Brothers Past
Doug Stanhope of the Manshow
Conspirator (Feat. Marc and Aaron of the Disco Biscuits)
Erowid
Ozric Tentacles
Eat Static
My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult
Laser’s by GeminiTV (Who has also worked with Jimi Hendrix, the Who and Pink Floyd)
The Church of Subgenius
Jamaican Xotic Mushrooms
…and much more

Best of all the one ticket price covers your hotel, all you can eat, all you can drink and 24/7 worth of entertainment. Also included: Snorkeling, scuba diving, sailing, and circus school.

There are still limited tickets available, including some with ocean front rooms. There’s even a simple payment plan to make it affordable for everyone.

So won’t you join us in Jamaica for what I’m sure will be one amazing trip!
Click here to be removed from this list.

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] trickster points and laughs—bless your heart
Date: May 31, 2005 at 3:42:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am power tripping and acting like
egomaniac

Carla never talks to anyone directly and looks like she isn’t living any of
advice she keeps giving.

I need to get laid more.  I will go pee on myself now.
Carla B
(this won’t make Dana or Ben’s newletter)
> I consider Carla therapy  a total luxury really, having someone be
> interested in all the little
> dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] for hackers
Date: May 31, 2005 at 3:35:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

fyi, start looking over your shoulder like yesterday,

EVERYthing is recorded ; )

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] crusty hippo
Date: May 31, 2005 at 3:34:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

how’s is your musium coming along Dana?

Bless your heart.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it so pleases the list…
Date: May 31, 2005 at 1:27:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was on 20 and dropped to 8 in two weeks, and it took my body and
brain about another 2 weeks to catch up with me  I was down to 2 mgs,
and it sucks far more at the lower dose when it comes to withdrawal.
It’s always those last few mgs that kick my ass.  it takes about 4
days to really feel the effect of the kick form it, or at least for
me.  yucka.
love tink
thax howard/fire3456

On 5/31/05, fire3456@aol.com <fire3456@aol.com> wrote:

Hi Howard/Tink,

From what I have read, and from what people who have had used/1st hand
experience with Bup/Sub, a fast taper is much better.  4 or 5 weeks.  People
who have used Sub seem to agree that faster tapper is better than a gradual
long taper.  The w/d are actually said to be less with a fast taper for some
reason.

Also, does anyone have any advice on switching from Bup back to something
else.  My Sub DR just lost his license and I have finally found a DR that
will help but can’t prescribe Sub.  So I may have to switch.  Although I am
going to try an even faster taper with the Sub I have left (maybe 2 weeks
worth left) I’m down to 1mg/day and having difficulty going lower without
w/ds beginning.

PS:  I was on Sub, but obviously wasn’t off it long enough, when I tried
Ibogaine.  It did reset some of my receptors where I was able to get along
with a lot less Sub.  I think a maintenance dose of Ibo would have done the
trick, had I had enough for a couple of weeks or so.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Mon, 30 May 2005 20:32:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than
later, if it so pleases the list…

The Naloxone was added to stop people from shooting buprenorphine. It is
virtually inactive when taken sublingually but, will put you into immediate
withdrawal if taken IV.

Responses to switching to buprenorphine (agonist/antagonist) to a full
agonist (hydrocodone/vicodin) will depend on the dose of vicodin and
individual
responses.

The general procedure for switching from a full agonist to buprenorphine is
to let yourself go into withdrawal before you take the buprenorphine. It is
really a crap shoot. Some patients have to take buprenorphine for a few days
before they feel better and may even feel worse on day one.

There is nothing wrong with returning to buprenorphine either as a
maintenance drug or to assist you in tapering. When it comes to tapering
from
opioids,
slower is better, particularly when you are dealing with school and home
issues.

Howard

In a message dated 5/30/05 11:42:24 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

Not having much knowledge about the induction of subutex( straight
buprenorphine), I was wondering if any one knew what would happen if I
were to take one after not taking them since Friday am, havin switched
over to -ugh-vicodin. i know that you aren’t supposed to take the
suboxone because of the naloxone in it, but my knowledge is impaired
when it comes to this other stuff. basically, I feel like holy hell,
have no idea if i even have a reason to have switched off the shit
anymore, and have to function here at home, as well as finish up my
school work, and i have no more of anything else. So, does anyone
know if it’ll cause more withdrwawl like the other shit if you take it
after you’ve had soemthing with an opiate base?
Heeeeeeeellllllllllllppppppppp!!!!!!!!
tink

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: What’s Love?
Date: May 31, 2005 at 10:04:16 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL,
Right on Randy, right on.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: What’s Love?

Hey Preston, how bout this?       Love is that feeling you get after you come out of an Ibogaine session for all the friends that you have and and all the ones you haven’t met yet. I love you brother.       Randy

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: [Seth and Jane Roberts] image of our consciouness
Date: May 31, 2005 at 8:25:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

>
>Cosmic Cookie
>
> Every Human Baby that is born is inhabited
> by a Human Mind or Consciousness.
> The Baby grows up… lives a bit… and dies.
> The Human Mind however never dies.
> The Human Mind has been born thousands of times
> but the Human Body is brand new every time.
> Not only is the Body new every time
> but every time the Body is more evolved.
> The Human-Mind-Creator has learned to create
> better Human Bodies for better Human Minds.
> We are learning Creators.
>
> OUR MATTER BODY IS THE IMAGE OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS
>
>
>
>
>Seagulls Fly High and Observe the World,,,,,,,,,,
>Dolphins Swimm and Chatter Wisely,,,,,,,,,
>Whales Dive Deep and Sing the Song of the Earth

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 31, 2005 at 5:32:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/30/2005 11:36:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tink wrote
It’s different everywhere, but the more rural the area, I’m
>> discovering, the more the lack of resources
Tink, I love you by the way, but you gotta know about what is happening in KY. There is a public clinic (as in sliding scale, most pay a dollar a day) in Lexington, run by a very good friend of mine. The waiting list is over 2 years for that one. There are also 8 other pay clinics as we call them, in strategic places all over KY. All of them have a waiting list too. I can’t really say how long. Too fucking long if you ask me. Anyway, in my jaded and uneducated opinion we need to let Doctors deal with more of these patients. I conned my way into it, or should I say that I found a couple of Doctors who actually cared about my health and gave me Methadone for “pain issues”. Pain, as in “fuck me, I can’t take this shit anymore please help me. I can’t fight Hep C and fight my way into the clinic every day. I aint got the energy. I’m finding that a lot of addicts are becoming middle age and we have legitamit pain issues as well as being addicted. Family DR’s should be allowed to help these people. Not 30 at a time. As many of their patients that need it. Methadone or bup. or whatever is best for the patient.          Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: What’s Love?
Date: May 31, 2005 at 5:07:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston, how bout this?       Love is that feeling you get after you come out of an Ibogaine session for all the friends that you have and and all the ones you haven’t met yet. I love you brother.       Randy

From: “Rick Strcat” <rickstrcat@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 31, 2005 at 1:31:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:48:08 -0700

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

Thanks very much for the info.  If you could describe the effects at that low dosage, especially changes in blood pressure and pulse rate (if any), that would be really helpful.

Thanks.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
>have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
>Any responses would be really welcome.
>
>Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
>addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
>take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
>If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
>low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
>serious
>withdrawals but lots of craving.
>
>Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
>days
>for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
>with
>experience with this, especially with self-treatment.
>
>Thanks.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
>it’s FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
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From: fire3456@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it so pleases the list…
Date: May 31, 2005 at 12:21:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard/Tink,

From what I have read, and from what people who have had used/1st hand experience with Bup/Sub, a fast taper is much better.  4 or 5 weeks.  People who have used Sub seem to agree that faster tapper is better than a gradual long taper.  The w/d are actually said to be less with a fast taper for some reason.

Also, does anyone have any advice on switching from Bup back to something else.  My Sub DR just lost his license and I have finally found a DR that will help but can’t prescribe Sub.  So I may have to switch.  Although I am going to try an even faster taper with the Sub I have left (maybe 2 weeks worth left) I’m down to 1mg/day and having difficulty going lower without w/ds beginning.

PS:  I was on Sub, but obviously wasn’t off it long enough, when I tried Ibogaine.  It did reset some of my receptors where I was able to get along with a lot less Sub.  I think a maintenance dose of Ibo would have done the trick, had I had enough for a couple of weeks or so.

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Mon, 30 May 2005 20:32:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it so pleases the list…

The Naloxone was added to stop people from shooting buprenorphine. It is
virtually inactive when taken sublingually but, will put you into immediate
withdrawal if taken IV.

Responses to switching to buprenorphine (agonist/antagonist) to a full
agonist (hydrocodone/vicodin) will depend on the dose of vicodin and individual
responses.

The general procedure for switching from a full agonist to buprenorphine is
to let yourself go into withdrawal before you take the buprenorphine. It is
really a crap shoot. Some patients have to take buprenorphine for a few days
before they feel better and may even feel worse on day one.

There is nothing wrong with returning to buprenorphine either as a
maintenance drug or to assist you in tapering. When it comes to tapering from
opioids,
slower is better, particularly when you are dealing with school and home
issues.

Howard

In a message dated 5/30/05 11:42:24 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

>Not having much knowledge about the induction of subutex( straight
>buprenorphine), I was wondering if any one knew what would happen if I
>were to take one after not taking them since Friday am, havin switched
>over to -ugh-vicodin. i know that you aren’t supposed to take the
>suboxone because of the naloxone in it, but my knowledge is impaired
>when it comes to this other stuff. basically, I feel like holy hell,
>have no idea if i even have a reason to have switched off the shit
>anymore, and have to function here at home, as well as finish up my
>school work, and i have no more of anything else. So, does anyone
>know if it’ll cause more withdrwawl like the other shit if you take it
>after you’ve had soemthing with an opiate base?
>Heeeeeeeellllllllllllppppppppp!!!!!!!!
>tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it so pleases the list…
Date: May 31, 2005 at 12:03:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you again.  i took 2 mgs and was okay.  Almost done here, but
what a drag..
tink

On 5/30/05, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:
The Naloxone was added to stop people from shooting buprenorphine.  It is
virtually inactive when taken sublingually but, will put you into immediate
withdrawal if taken IV.

Responses to switching to buprenorphine (agonist/antagonist) to a full
agonist (hydrocodone/vicodin) will depend on the dose of vicodin and individual
responses.

The general procedure for switching from a full agonist to buprenorphine is
to let yourself go into withdrawal before you take the buprenorphine.  It is
really a crap shoot. Some patients have to take buprenorphine for a few days
before they feel better and may even feel worse on day one.

There is nothing wrong with returning to buprenorphine either as a
maintenance drug or to assist you in tapering.  When it comes to tapering from opioids,
slower is better, particularly when you are dealing with school and home
issues.

Howard

In a message dated 5/30/05 11:42:24 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

Not having much knowledge about the induction of subutex( straight
buprenorphine), I was wondering if any one knew what would happen if I
were to take one after not taking them since Friday am, havin switched
over to -ugh-vicodin.  i know that you aren’t supposed to take the
suboxone because of the naloxone in it, but my knowledge is impaired
when it comes to this other stuff.  basically, I feel like holy hell,
have no idea if i even have a reason to have switched off the shit
anymore, and have to function here at home, as well as finish up my
school work, and i have no more  of anything else.  So, does anyone
know if it’ll cause more withdrwawl like the other shit if you take it
after you’ve had soemthing with an opiate base?
Heeeeeeeellllllllllllppppppppp!!!!!!!!
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 11:36:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana, you sent Denny here, and I have never got one cent for his
treatment, he stayed for 10 days no one else would have treated him with
the physical problems he has and beside Denny broke a 300$ glas pipe,
I never got that refunded too.
talking about sociopaths… I think it is time to pay back Dana, You may
not think that way but I’m a human too.now you got my help when you needed
it but there is nothing in return.And Denny is not into Ibogaine, beside
he got Iboga and not Ibogaine.
he wouldn’t have came if he knew you were NOT going to pay for sending him
here after you promissed. You got me…  Good cheating trick.
Sara

Vermont is a special case. I had problems with Howard Dean on account
of this medical marijuana position, but his stance on treatment on
demand for addicts was even more reprehensible. There’s no sign that
his vetoing methadone presaged a preference for more enlightened
treatment options. His attitude, for a doctor, was more prosecutorial
than medical when it came to treatment for addicts that was no
thinly-veiled punishment. No wonder democrats keep on losing; on drugs
they’re indistinguishable from republicans.

So far as I know there were two people in Vermont who were into
ibogaine, and one of them just left. He had the cable show in
Burlington; moved back to Chicago. The other, Denny Lane, lives way the
fuck out at the end of a country road a couple of hours from
Burlington. He’s a chronic pain patient who got iboga at Sara’s. Can’t
do much.

Still, there’s a lot of potential in Vermont, especially if we can open
up the clinic in Montreal.

Dana/cnw

On May 30, 2005, at 10:32 AM, tink wrote:

I have had this problem as of late with my therapist, in that I’ve
stated very clearly what my needs and problems are and have been, and
continue to be, and he hasnt said more than, “Mmm-hmm, that’s great.
Here’s your prescription.  Please stay in compliance with the rules
and keep your insurance updated. Have a nice day, and see you in a
month.”  I don’t thiink I’ve actually spoken to him for longer than 10
minutes in the past 7 months.  When I said something about that, and
the fact that I didn’t want to be on these lovely little pills
anymore(suboxone), he had an “emergency” meeting, in which he got the
other two who ‘lead’ our group therapy and they sat in a semi circle,
informing me that I’ll never make it without the aid of some form of
opiate agonist/antagonist in me, and was I not thinking clearly about
my decision to want to get off of the stuff?
Unfortunately, in the area I live in currently, they’re still at the
point where there is no problem, for if you don’t acknowledge the
elephant in the living room, it’ll go away, right?  it makes the
availablity of care extremely limited and spots for these doctors who
DO provide buprenorphine and methadone are hotly contested. There are
only 150 slots, in THE WHOLE STATE, available for methadone, and each
doctor per practice, not each doctor individually, can prescribe
suboxone for only 30 people.  The waiting list is as long as 8 months,
and the only other options available are to join a clinic in
Massachussets, use, or move.  My mother was told that i would be
better off on the streets of Miami, or NYC (where ever I was at the
moment) because there simply wasn’t anything anyone here could do.
When I finally did come home, I transferred clinics from miami to
here, but when I got here and went in to see them, they informed me
they would only host dose me for 2 weeks, and then it was up to me to
figure it out, but they would gladly put my name on list.  This is
after 3 months of arrangements being made between my doctor in Florida
and the people here, as well as all of the calling and arranging I was
fortunate enough to have done for me by my parents.
It’s different everywhere, but the more rural the area, I’m
discovering, the more the lack of resources.  Oh, they do want to open
a born again christian faith based rehab, but they’re currently trying
to expunge what few resources there are, saying they cause more
problems due to the relapse rate of addicts.
I found a little sticker that I put on the fridge the other day, and
it says, “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell;
spirituality is for those of us who have been there.”
tink

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Fw: What’s Love?
Date: May 30, 2005 at 9:42:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
This it totally off topic, but I thought I’d share it anyway.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Vanessa Cleary
To: Preston Peet
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:58 PM
Subject: Fw: What’s Love?

—– Original Message —– From: maria monaco
To: walt wimer ; Vanessa Cleary ; rick monaco ; mary mc gee ; linda grotenstein ; lee clark ; jason cameron ; Jan Pike ; James Smith ; irene hancox ; fran huelse ; eyeknit2@adelphia.net ; Elizabeth Tice ; carol harmon
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: Fw: What’s Love?

MUST READ! THESE ARE PRICELESS!
M
—– Original Message —– From: Dana LaScala
To: Vern ; Treacy Dunigan ; Tracy McSweeney ; Theresa Bray ; Susan Haas ; Racioppi, Victor ; Nora Smeltzer ; nicole reichard ; Natalie Pepe ; Maria Monaco ; Liz Dunigan ; Kim Cirlin ; katie mulvey ; Jesus Navarro ; Jessica Bleakley ; Eric Deutch ; Dad COMCAST ; Casey Davison ; Carolynn O’Brien ; Carol DiGirolamo ; Brandi ; Auntie Angela ; Aunt RaeAnn
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: What’s Love?

A group of professional people posed this question to
a group of 4 to 8 year-olds, “What does love mean?”

The answers they got were broader and deeper than
anyone could have imagined. See what you think:

————————————————————————
——–

“When my grandmother got arthritis, she couldn’t bend
over and paint her toenails anymore.

So my grandfather does it for her all the time, even
when his hands got arthritis too. That’s love.”

Rebecca- age 8

————————————————————————
——–

“When someone loves you, the way they say your name is different.

You just know that your name is safe in their mouth.”

Billy – age 4

———————————————————— ————
——–

“Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on
shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other.”

Karl – age 5

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when you go out to eat and give somebody most
of your French fries without making them give you any
of theirs.”

Chrissy – age 6

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is what makes you smile when you’re tired.”

Terri – age 4

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when my mommy makes coffee for my daddy and
she takes a sip before giving it to him, to make sure
the taste is OK.”

Danny – age 7

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when you kiss all the time. Then when you get
tired of kissing, you still want to be together and
you talk more.
My Mommy and Daddy are like that. They look gross when
they kiss”

Emily – age 8

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is what’s in the room with you at Christmas if
you stop opening presents and listen.”

Bobby – age 7 (Wow!)

————————————————————————
——–

“If you want to learn to love better, you should start
with a friend who you hate,”

Nikka – age 6
(we need a few million more Nikka’s on this planet)

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt, then
he wears it everyday.”

Noelle – age 7

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is like a little old woman and a little old man
who are still friends even after they know each other
so well.”

Tommy – age 6

————————————————————————
——–

“During my piano recital, I was on a stage and I was
scared. I looked at all the people watching me and saw
my daddy waving and smiling.

He was the only one doing that. I wasn’t scared
anymore.”

Cindy – age 8

———————————————————————— ——–

“My mommy loves me more than anybody .

You don’t see anyone else kissing me to sleep at
night.”

Clare – age 6

———————————————————————— ——–

“Love is when Mommy gives Daddy the best piece of
chicken.”

Elaine-age 5

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when Mommy sees Daddy smelly and sweaty and
still says he is handsomer than Robert Redford.”

Chris – age 7

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when your puppy licks your face even after
you left him alone all day.”

Mary Ann – age 4

————————————————————————
——–

“I know my older sister loves me because she gives me
all her old clothes and has to go out and buy new
ones.”

Lauren – age 4

—————————— ——————————————
——–

“When you love somebody, your eyelashes go up and down
and little stars come out of you.” (what an image)

Karen – age 7

————————————————————————
——–

“Love is when Mommy sees Daddy on the toilet and she
doesn’t think it’s gross.”

Mark – age 6

————————————————————————
——–

“You really shouldn’t say ‘I love you’ unless you mean
it. But if you mean it, you should say it a lot.
People forget.”

Jessica – age 8

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 9:26:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, aint it the same as school? When I had teachers who were great and helpful and , well  were actually real people trying to teach people (not “kids:” in the form of control, make submissive ach tung baby) I learnt so much more and exams were a breeze.   It’;s the same with therapists.  Until we find the one who can help us, we won’t learn, or can’t be helped.
Going thru that with friends
Kirk

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2005 2:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn

Nick, your right. When I finally wanted help and found a good therapist I actually got better. Or should I say I became more focused on what I wanted to achieve.       Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it so pleases the list…
Date: May 30, 2005 at 8:32:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Naloxone was added to stop people from shooting buprenorphine.  It is
virtually inactive when taken sublingually but, will put you into immediate
withdrawal if taken IV.

Responses to switching to buprenorphine (agonist/antagonist) to a full
agonist (hydrocodone/vicodin) will depend on the dose of vicodin and individual
responses.

The general procedure for switching from a full agonist to buprenorphine is
to let yourself go into withdrawal before you take the buprenorphine.  It is
really a crap shoot. Some patients have to take buprenorphine for a few days
before they feel better and may even feel worse on day one.

There is nothing wrong with returning to buprenorphine either as a
maintenance drug or to assist you in tapering.  When it comes to tapering from opioids,
slower is better, particularly when you are dealing with school and home
issues.

Howard

In a message dated 5/30/05 11:42:24 AM, tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com writes:

Not having much knowledge about the induction of subutex( straight
buprenorphine), I was wondering if any one knew what would happen if I
were to take one after not taking them since Friday am, havin switched
over to -ugh-vicodin.  i know that you aren’t supposed to take the
suboxone because of the naloxone in it, but my knowledge is impaired
when it comes to this other stuff.  basically, I feel like holy hell,
have no idea if i even have a reason to have switched off the shit
anymore, and have to function here at home, as well as finish up my
school work, and i have no more  of anything else.  So, does anyone
know if it’ll cause more withdrwawl like the other shit if you take it
after you’ve had soemthing with an opiate base?
Heeeeeeeellllllllllllppppppppp!!!!!!!!
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] fwd fwd reality creation
Date: May 30, 2005 at 7:46:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And……We’re not human remembering to be Spirit, We are spirit trying to be human.  Juss gotta ‘member Hehheh, um, that which I um, forgot…….
urhhhh
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2005 11:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd fwd reality creation

>                      Do not think for one Minute that you have a Soul.
>                            On the Contrary… your Soul has you.
>                      The Human Form or Instrument is created by Spirit
>                          in order to experience the Plane of Earth.
>                              You are only visiting this Plane.
>                     This Plane of Existence is an enormous Movie Theater
>                        into which you are born and live for a while.
>                           Since you know nothing but this Theater
>                       you think that this is the only Thing there is.
>                          The Movie you’re watching is but a Dream.
>                       Please wake up and discover who you really are.
> 
>                             YOU CAN NEVER OWN A PLACE YOU VISIT
>
Namaste
Matthew
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd fwd reality creation
Date: May 30, 2005 at 7:20:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>                      Do not think for one Minute that you have a Soul.
>                            On the Contrary… your Soul has you.
>                      The Human Form or Instrument is created by Spirit
>                          in order to experience the Plane of Earth.
>                              You are only visiting this Plane.
>                     This Plane of Existence is an enormous Movie Theater
>                        into which you are born and live for a while.
>                           Since you know nothing but this Theater
>                       you think that this is the only Thing there is.
>                          The Movie you’re watching is but a Dream.
>                       Please wake up and discover who you really are.
>
>                             YOU CAN NEVER OWN A PLACE YOU VISIT
>

Namaste
Matthew

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 4:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i have gone after my recovery with all of everything that i have
inside.  I have participated in getting  funding for rehabs, i have
spoken to our senate and legisators about the needs out here for more
accessiblity.  I do take responsibility for all of my actions, and
while not necessarily 100%, have put as much into this as i did
getting high.
I made it off methadone, almost off of buprenorphine, and back to
school in under 4 months.  It’s not a matter of me waiting for someone
to fix me, it’s general frustration that help isn’t readily available.
i have had the luxury-and it IS a luxury- of much support from my
family, without whom i wouldn’t have made it this far.  Not everyone
has that, and my frustration stems from the lacksidaisical(sp?)
attitude and the, “well, their only addicts” attitude that is always
in place.  I think you’ve misunderstood what I meant. and i don’t mean
to come off like I’m attacking, but at the same time, there are alot
of very difficult choices to be made when you do live in an area where
they won’t even admit that there IS a problem.
tink
On 5/30/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 30 May 2005 15:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn

I have had this problem as of late with my therapist, in that I’ve
stated very clearly what my needs and problems are and have been, and
continue to be, and he hasnt said more than, “Mmm-hmm, that’s great.
Here’s your prescription.  Please stay in compliance with the rules
and keep your insurance updated. Have a nice day, and see you in a
month.”  I don’t thiink I’ve actually spoken to him for longer than 10
minutes in the past 7 months.  When I said something about that, and
the fact that I didn’t want to be on these lovely little pills
anymore(suboxone), he had an “emergency” meeting, in which he got the
other two who ‘lead’ our group therapy and they sat in a semi circle,
informing me that I’ll never make it without the aid of some form of
opiate agonist/antagonist in me, and was I not thinking clearly about
my decision to want to get off of the stuff?
Unfortunately, in the area I live in currently, they’re still at the
point where there is no problem, for if you don’t acknowledge the
elephant in the living room, it’ll go away, right?  it makes the
availablity of care extremely limited and spots for these doctors who
DO provide buprenorphine and methadone are hotly contested. There are
only 150 slots, in THE WHOLE STATE, available for methadone, and each
doctor per practice, not each doctor individually, can prescribe
suboxone for only 30 people.  The waiting list is as long as 8 months,
and the only other options available are to join a clinic in
Massachussets, use, or move.  My mother was told that i would be
better off on the streets of Miami, or NYC (where ever I was at the
moment) because there simply wasn’t anything anyone here could do.
When I finally did come home, I transferred clinics from miami to
here, but when I got here and went in to see them, they informed me
they would only host dose me for 2 weeks, and then it was up to me to
figure it out, but they would gladly put my name on list.  This is
after 3 months of arrangements being made between my doctor in Florida
and the people here, as well as all of the calling and arranging I was
fortunate enough to have done for me by my parents.
It’s different everywhere, but the more rural the area, I’m
discovering, the more the lack of resources.  Oh, they do want to open
a born again christian faith based rehab, but they’re currently trying
to expunge what few resources there are, saying they cause more
problems due to the relapse rate of addicts.
I found a little sticker that I put on the fridge the other day, and
it says, “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell;
spirituality is for those of us who have been there.”
tink

The way I see it, at some point you have to empower YOURself to make the
change. If you keep the onus on other people to change you, then you’re just
disempowering yourself. You have to let go of this whole “Yes, but….”
attitude. Where you live and the social setting doesn’t matter. The whole
issue with change has ultimately nothing to do with outside circumstances,
and ultimately everything to do with your attitude. When you start to take
full personal responsibility for everything that happens in your life, then
change is gonna come pretty fast. It’s not so cool to not be able to blame
others, it’s a bit of a drag, really. It takes a lot of maturity and I
wouldn’t personally claim to be there by a long shot myself. But it does
work. We always have a choice, each of us, every instant we’re alive, to
stick with the “Yes, but…” or to take it on ourselves.

Nick

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 4:07:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick and Matthew, both of you gave great comments that
are close to home for me. I don’t think I am in any
way unique with having had really bad experiences with
both doctors and therapists. Then moving towards the
more open ended and not western oriented ‘shamanic’
types, almost without exception I’ve found a lot of
new age people power tripping and acting like
egomaniacs about ‘spirituality’ and ‘shamanism’ they
could go off about spirit and integration, god, going
down to the depths and integrating all day long, but
when you take a look at who they are and their own
lives, it never looked like they were living any of
the great advice they kept giving.

I’m with matthew and if anybody knows someone
channeling the spirit of Jung, please let me in on it.
The closest thing I’ve found to true shamanism and
real knowledge of drugs and addiction, is mindvox. If
there is a mindvox therapist I still haven’t found
them at least not handing out business cards with the
word ‘shaman’ on them 😉

What has worked for me and still works, are group
settings. Like this one and in person, even if the
group isn’t perfect and really what group is, or
something happens that bothers me, if I get upset or
into a argument then sometimes it is only because
someone else is being an ass, but sometimes it does
help to make me aware of my own response and problems,
its like watching myself, but feeling safe and ok to
do that. Whatever the exact group dynamic, I usually
feel better afterwards, like a load was lifted, even
if I feel worse for a while getting to the good part
🙂

Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

I consider therapy bloody great, within the context
it operates in. It’s
like a total luxury really, having someone be
interested in all the little
dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great.
Shamanism I think is also
great and I have been in quite a few sweat lodges
and soul retrieval
sessions, all this new age stuff. Though my
experience is that a lot of
shamen really lack social skills and real humanistic
awareness. They’re
acting out a bit of a healer trip really, getting
off on this whole
spiritual drama they can create. Which is also OK as
they can also give a
lot.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski
[mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 May 2005 12:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed
Conn

Hi

that was very interesting…..however i can attest
to spilling my llllife
to “experienced therapists”
psychologists,hypntotists whatever with
disastrous results….it might be i havent fuond the
right one(if the spirit
of Jung is still conducting treatments pls drop me a
line)….

therapists when they hit a dead end are
mostly….”hmmm maybe we should
try another route………hmm how about something
for anxiety,
insomnia,depresion and if u are really bothering me
and hanging on my neck
i’ll prescribe some opiates too just so the next
time u come back u wont
keep talking all the time”…..

well that was my experience with whoever i saw so
i basicaly give up
…however seeing a shaman does sound like a really
good idea

…..i would love to read peoples experiences with
“therapists” thatt
actualy got them somewhere….love to all u my
people

Namaste
Matthew

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 4:08:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vermont is a special case. I had problems with Howard Dean on account of this medical marijuana position, but his stance on treatment on demand for addicts was even more reprehensible. There’s no sign that his vetoing methadone presaged a preference for more enlightened treatment options. His attitude, for a doctor, was more prosecutorial than medical when it came to treatment for addicts that was no thinly-veiled punishment. No wonder democrats keep on losing; on drugs they’re indistinguishable from republicans.

So far as I know there were two people in Vermont who were into ibogaine, and one of them just left. He had the cable show in Burlington; moved back to Chicago. The other, Denny Lane, lives way the fuck out at the end of a country road a couple of hours from Burlington. He’s a chronic pain patient who got iboga at Sara’s. Can’t do much.

Still, there’s a lot of potential in Vermont, especially if we can open up the clinic in Montreal.

Dana/cnw

On May 30, 2005, at 10:32 AM, tink wrote:

I have had this problem as of late with my therapist, in that I’ve
stated very clearly what my needs and problems are and have been, and
continue to be, and he hasnt said more than, “Mmm-hmm, that’s great.
Here’s your prescription.  Please stay in compliance with the rules
and keep your insurance updated. Have a nice day, and see you in a
month.”  I don’t thiink I’ve actually spoken to him for longer than 10
minutes in the past 7 months.  When I said something about that, and
the fact that I didn’t want to be on these lovely little pills
anymore(suboxone), he had an “emergency” meeting, in which he got the
other two who ‘lead’ our group therapy and they sat in a semi circle,
informing me that I’ll never make it without the aid of some form of
opiate agonist/antagonist in me, and was I not thinking clearly about
my decision to want to get off of the stuff?
Unfortunately, in the area I live in currently, they’re still at the
point where there is no problem, for if you don’t acknowledge the
elephant in the living room, it’ll go away, right?  it makes the
availablity of care extremely limited and spots for these doctors who
DO provide buprenorphine and methadone are hotly contested. There are
only 150 slots, in THE WHOLE STATE, available for methadone, and each
doctor per practice, not each doctor individually, can prescribe
suboxone for only 30 people.  The waiting list is as long as 8 months,
and the only other options available are to join a clinic in
Massachussets, use, or move.  My mother was told that i would be
better off on the streets of Miami, or NYC (where ever I was at the
moment) because there simply wasn’t anything anyone here could do.
When I finally did come home, I transferred clinics from miami to
here, but when I got here and went in to see them, they informed me
they would only host dose me for 2 weeks, and then it was up to me to
figure it out, but they would gladly put my name on list.  This is
after 3 months of arrangements being made between my doctor in Florida
and the people here, as well as all of the calling and arranging I was
fortunate enough to have done for me by my parents.
It’s different everywhere, but the more rural the area, I’m
discovering, the more the lack of resources.  Oh, they do want to open
a born again christian faith based rehab, but they’re currently trying
to expunge what few resources there are, saying they cause more
problems due to the relapse rate of addicts.
I found a little sticker that I put on the fridge the other day, and
it says, “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell;
spirituality is for those of us who have been there.”
tink

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 3:55:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: 30 May 2005 15:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn

I have had this problem as of late with my therapist, in that I’ve
stated very clearly what my needs and problems are and have been, and
continue to be, and he hasnt said more than, “Mmm-hmm, that’s great.
Here’s your prescription.  Please stay in compliance with the rules
and keep your insurance updated. Have a nice day, and see you in a
month.”  I don’t thiink I’ve actually spoken to him for longer than 10
minutes in the past 7 months.  When I said something about that, and
the fact that I didn’t want to be on these lovely little pills
anymore(suboxone), he had an “emergency” meeting, in which he got the
other two who ‘lead’ our group therapy and they sat in a semi circle,
informing me that I’ll never make it without the aid of some form of
opiate agonist/antagonist in me, and was I not thinking clearly about
my decision to want to get off of the stuff?
Unfortunately, in the area I live in currently, they’re still at the
point where there is no problem, for if you don’t acknowledge the
elephant in the living room, it’ll go away, right?  it makes the
availablity of care extremely limited and spots for these doctors who
DO provide buprenorphine and methadone are hotly contested. There are
only 150 slots, in THE WHOLE STATE, available for methadone, and each
doctor per practice, not each doctor individually, can prescribe
suboxone for only 30 people.  The waiting list is as long as 8 months,
and the only other options available are to join a clinic in
Massachussets, use, or move.  My mother was told that i would be
better off on the streets of Miami, or NYC (where ever I was at the
moment) because there simply wasn’t anything anyone here could do.
When I finally did come home, I transferred clinics from miami to
here, but when I got here and went in to see them, they informed me
they would only host dose me for 2 weeks, and then it was up to me to
figure it out, but they would gladly put my name on list.  This is
after 3 months of arrangements being made between my doctor in Florida
and the people here, as well as all of the calling and arranging I was
fortunate enough to have done for me by my parents.
It’s different everywhere, but the more rural the area, I’m
discovering, the more the lack of resources.  Oh, they do want to open
a born again christian faith based rehab, but they’re currently trying
to expunge what few resources there are, saying they cause more
problems due to the relapse rate of addicts.
I found a little sticker that I put on the fridge the other day, and
it says, “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell;
spirituality is for those of us who have been there.”
tink

The way I see it, at some point you have to empower YOURself to make the
change. If you keep the onus on other people to change you, then you’re just
disempowering yourself. You have to let go of this whole “Yes, but….”
attitude. Where you live and the social setting doesn’t matter. The whole
issue with change has ultimately nothing to do with outside circumstances,
and ultimately everything to do with your attitude. When you start to take
full personal responsibility for everything that happens in your life, then
change is gonna come pretty fast. It’s not so cool to not be able to blame
others, it’s a bit of a drag, really. It takes a lot of maturity and I
wouldn’t personally claim to be there by a long shot myself. But it does
work. We always have a choice, each of us, every instant we’re alive, to
stick with the “Yes, but…” or to take it on ourselves.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Help for a friend in England
Date: May 30, 2005 at 3:27:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think there are some guys selling rootbark mail order over here, but I’d recommend more ordering from one of the two first places I list at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 30 May 2005 20:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Help for a friend in England

I have a friend in London that asked me the easiest way to get Ibogaine over there. Can’t you just order it in the mail in England? I’m not sure so I thought maybe Nick or somebody else in the UK could help me with some info. Any help appreciated.    Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Help for a friend in England
Date: May 30, 2005 at 3:00:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a friend in London that asked me the easiest way to get Ibogaine over there. Can’t you just order it in the mail in England? I’m not sure so I thought maybe Nick or somebody else in the UK could help me with some info. Any help appreciated.    Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] thought for the day
Date: May 30, 2005 at 12:33:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“the greatest good is like water
Which benefits all things
And yet it does not contend
It stays in places that others disdain
And therefore is close to the way of truth”
-Eighth chapter of the Tao te Ching

luv tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] so here’s a question I need answered sooner than later, if it so pleases the list…
Date: May 30, 2005 at 11:42:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not having much knowledge about the induction of subutex( straight
buprenorphine), I was wondering if any one knew what would happen if I
were to take one after not taking them since Friday am, havin switched
over to -ugh-vicodin.  i know that you aren’t supposed to take the
suboxone because of the naloxone in it, but my knowledge is impaired
when it comes to this other stuff.  basically, I feel like holy hell,
have no idea if i even have a reason to have switched off the shit
anymore, and have to function here at home, as well as finish up my
school work, and i have no more  of anything else.  So, does anyone
know if it’ll cause more withdrwawl like the other shit if you take it
after you’ve had soemthing with an opiate base?
Heeeeeeeellllllllllllppppppppp!!!!!!!!
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 10:32:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have had this problem as of late with my therapist, in that I’ve
stated very clearly what my needs and problems are and have been, and
continue to be, and he hasnt said more than, “Mmm-hmm, that’s great.
Here’s your prescription.  Please stay in compliance with the rules
and keep your insurance updated. Have a nice day, and see you in a
month.”  I don’t thiink I’ve actually spoken to him for longer than 10
minutes in the past 7 months.  When I said something about that, and
the fact that I didn’t want to be on these lovely little pills
anymore(suboxone), he had an “emergency” meeting, in which he got the
other two who ‘lead’ our group therapy and they sat in a semi circle,
informing me that I’ll never make it without the aid of some form of
opiate agonist/antagonist in me, and was I not thinking clearly about
my decision to want to get off of the stuff?
Unfortunately, in the area I live in currently, they’re still at the
point where there is no problem, for if you don’t acknowledge the
elephant in the living room, it’ll go away, right?  it makes the
availablity of care extremely limited and spots for these doctors who
DO provide buprenorphine and methadone are hotly contested. There are
only 150 slots, in THE WHOLE STATE, available for methadone, and each
doctor per practice, not each doctor individually, can prescribe
suboxone for only 30 people.  The waiting list is as long as 8 months,
and the only other options available are to join a clinic in
Massachussets, use, or move.  My mother was told that i would be
better off on the streets of Miami, or NYC (where ever I was at the
moment) because there simply wasn’t anything anyone here could do.
When I finally did come home, I transferred clinics from miami to
here, but when I got here and went in to see them, they informed me
they would only host dose me for 2 weeks, and then it was up to me to
figure it out, but they would gladly put my name on list.  This is
after 3 months of arrangements being made between my doctor in Florida
and the people here, as well as all of the calling and arranging I was
fortunate enough to have done for me by my parents.
It’s different everywhere, but the more rural the area, I’m
discovering, the more the lack of resources.  Oh, they do want to open
a born again christian faith based rehab, but they’re currently trying
to expunge what few resources there are, saying they cause more
problems due to the relapse rate of addicts.
I found a little sticker that I put on the fridge the other day, and
it says, “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell;
spirituality is for those of us who have been there.”
tink
On 5/30/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

I think with a therapist it’s good to be realistic about what you want to
achieve. “I feel disconnected from people, I have trouble making friends,
I’m addicted to sex, I’m scared of intimacy, I want to stop using drugs” –
if you have clearly stated objectives it helps. If you are going to therapy
because the state or family are co-ercing then of course it’s not likely to
work so well. If you are going with the attitude “You! Fix me!” then of
course you are playing victim and putting it all on someone else to sort it
out, then for sure, again, it’s not likely to work.

I consider therapy bloody great, within the context it operates in. It’s
like a total luxury really, having someone be interested in all the little
dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great. Shamanism I think is also
great and I have been in quite a few sweat lodges and soul retrieval
sessions, all this new age stuff. Though my experience is that a lot of
shamen really lack social skills and real humanistic awareness. They’re
acting out a bit of a healer trip really, getting off on this whole
spiritual drama they can create. Which is also OK as they can also give a
lot.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 May 2005 12:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn

Hi

that was very interesting…..however i can attest to spilling my llllife to
“experienced therapists” psychologists,hypntotists whatever with disastrous
results….it might be i havent fuond the right one(if the spirit of Jung is
still conducting treatments pls drop me a line)….

therapists when they hit a dead end are mostly….”hmmm maybe we should try
another route………hmm how about something for anxiety,
insomnia,depresion and if u are really bothering me and hanging on my neck
i’ll prescribe some opiates too just so the next time u come back u wont
keep talking all the time”…..

well that was my experience with whoever i saw so i basicaly give up
…however seeing a shaman does sound like a really good idea

…..i would love to read peoples experiences with “therapists” thatt
actualy got them somewhere….love to all u my people

Namaste
Matthew
________________________________
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get
the first two months FREE*
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 10:16:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, your right. When I finally wanted help and found a good therapist I actually got better. Or should I say I became more focused on what I wanted to achieve.       Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 9:59:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think with a therapist it’s good to be realistic about what you want to achieve. “I feel disconnected from people, I have trouble making friends, I’m addicted to sex, I’m scared of intimacy, I want to stop using drugs” – if you have clearly stated objectives it helps. If you are going to therapy because the state or family are co-ercing then of course it’s not likely to work so well. If you are going with the attitude “You! Fix me!” then of course you are playing victim and putting it all on someone else to sort it out, then for sure, again, it’s not likely to work.

I consider therapy bloody great, within the context it operates in. It’s like a total luxury really, having someone be interested in all the little dramas of my life, I think it’s fucking great. Shamanism I think is also great and I have been in quite a few sweat lodges and soul retrieval sessions, all this new age stuff. Though my experience is that a lot of shamen really lack social skills and real humanistic awareness. They’re acting out a bit of a healer trip really, getting off on this whole spiritual drama they can create. Which is also OK as they can also give a lot.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 May 2005 12:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn

Hi
that was very interesting…..however i can attest to spilling my llllife to “experienced therapists” psychologists,hypntotists whatever with disastrous results….it might be i havent fuond the right one(if the spirit of Jung is still conducting treatments pls drop me a line)….
therapists when they hit a dead end are mostly….”hmmm maybe we should try another route………hmm how about something for anxiety, insomnia,depresion and if u are really bothering me and hanging on my neck i’ll prescribe some opiates too just so the next time u come back u wont keep talking all the time”…..
well that was my experience with whoever i saw so i basicaly give up …however seeing a shaman does sound like a really good idea
…..i would love to read peoples experiences with “therapists” thatt actualy got them somewhere….love to all u my people

Namaste
Matthew

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 30, 2005 at 9:49:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks to the medical community being turned into a type of insurance
scam, i don’t think anyone is in any less danger than the average trip
to the er, at, say, beth israel where i was once told that i wasn’t
sick enough and to come back after my fever hit over 104.  I walked
out the door and passed out, and they charged me for an ambulance ride
to get my body back into the little cubicle i had just walked from.
My friends wife went to get her thyroid checked, and was told she was
fine, no more tests required, but would she stay the night for
observation.  The next day, she was given an extremely high dose of
radiation, due to a chart mix up, and died a half hour after she was
released from the hospital.  There really IS danger in everything, and
it’s a choice not made lightly, to do iboga.  well, by most.  Rapid
detox kills, on average, 2-3 people a month, and THAT’s safe and
legal? I agree that info should be made available to all, but things
really ARE SHITTY AND FUCKED UP.  Like, everywhere!! I know for a fact
that addicts have been guinea pigged on, becasue who’s going to
believe a junky?  I rant, i rave, but i still don’t feel any better
about the state of affairs.
eh.
coffee and a cigarette
luv tink

On 5/30/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: sara119@xs4all.nl [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 28 May 2005 15:16
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

Nick wrote “There does seem to be something about ibogaine which
attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then again,
who am I to talk?!”.

Nick

Then don’t say it. who cares?
well, there are sociopaths everywhere and in all levels.
they are sick people who need help,alright?  they hope ibogaine can help
them  and maybe it does help with some people.
Sara

Well, it’s true that I am gossiping a bit. But what I would also like to say
is that, on this list, so many people take the position that because other
things aren’t perfect it’s OK that things with ibogaine are a bit fucked up
too. Like, ibogaine is dangerous but because the other options are too it
doesn’t matter that we don’t tell it. Or that some people treating with
ibogaine are doing it from dubious motivations but this is also OK because
there are dodgy people in the White House or something. I just wanna say
that this is NOT my position and I find it just totally a fear position.
Anyone doing this, my view as a therapist, they are doing it because they
fear their own position with ibogaine is untenable. They have to justify a
lot of fuck-ups to not examine themselves.

If there are more deaths this should be publicized so that people are aware
and can make a better informed choice. If there are dodgy characters it’s ok
to talk and look a bit. That’s what I think.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 26 May 2005 16:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

A guy by the name of Chiel Coen, if I remember correctly, was
selling this
stuff at www.iboga.nl. I think he said they were from the Gabon and used
to
make a few big claims. I heard he had a alcohol problem and had
died a few
years back. Not sure if this was true.

There does seem to be something about ibogaine which attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few.
Then again,
who am I to talk?!

Nick

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaine OT don’t read this
Date: May 30, 2005 at 9:38:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and you said you were going to deal with your teeth :]
yeah, bushes were frequently visited by me in the not so distant past.
Dumpsters, when not full, work well for hiding, too, but you have to
be selective about which one you jump into.  Especially in warmer
climates.  Ewwwwwwww.
woke up feeling like a live wire was up my ass, shaking and twitching wee ha!
somebody shoot me, por favor.
til later
aloha
tink
hi biscuit boy’s mom!!!  You ROCK!!!

On 5/30/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
I’m crouched behind a big bush watching the cops go by the party I was just
having fun at. Mother fuckers screw up a good thing every time. How was I to
know that Mr. Wrong was having a bad day. He must have run out of Chivas or
something. Shit when the party was going good he was leading the rhumba
line. We should have let him in on the coke we were snorting. Anyway, that
doesn’t explain the rocks I have in my hand. These damn cops need to learn a
lesson. My buddy Fuzzy lets the first one fly. Wham, direct hit. I can’t
believe how bright those lights are when they hit ’em and put the car in
reverse. Dumb asses, we’re already two streets over from where they sit with
the lights on and we’re laughin’ like hyena’s. We know every back yard cut
through and drainage ditch in the ‘hood’. No way they can catch us. More
later

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 9:14:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt, you are reading my mind. I’ve been therapized since 1972, (big surprize huh) and most if not all of them were…….how can I put this nicely?………….fuck it, they were dumber than a bag of hammers. PHD, QHD, DPH what the fuck ever those dudes,(and one woman) gave me a cornicopia of ups, downs, side ways, but never opiates. I could tell these people anything and they would believe it. Then tell my mother what I said. Good way to establish trust, huh? I played those assholes like a violin. That’s why I’m so emotionally grounded now aint it? I gotta go, the devil is telling me to kill all the orange lizards in the woods. I got work to do. Anybody have any Torfinil? I seem to be running low. Damn, I wish these cob webs would stay off of my face.               Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 30, 2005 at 7:26:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
that was very interesting…..however i can attest to spilling my llllife to “experienced therapists” psychologists,hypntotists whatever with disastrous results….it might be i havent fuond the right one(if the spirit of Jung is still conducting treatments pls drop me a line)….
therapists when they hit a dead end are mostly….”hmmm maybe we should try another route………hmm how about something for anxiety, insomnia,depresion and if u are really bothering me and hanging on my neck i’ll prescribe some opiates too just so the next time u come back u wont keep talking all the time”…..
well that was my experience with whoever i saw so i basicaly give up …however seeing a shaman does sound like a really good idea
…..i would love to read peoples experiences with “therapists” thatt actualy got them somewhere….love to all u my people

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaine OT don’t read this
Date: May 30, 2005 at 7:13:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi brother
Keep em coming man…..good shit

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 30, 2005 at 7:05:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: sara119@xs4all.nl [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 28 May 2005 15:16
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

Nick wrote “There does seem to be something about ibogaine which
attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then again,
who am I to talk?!”.

Nick

Then don’t say it. who cares?
well, there are sociopaths everywhere and in all levels.
they are sick people who need help,alright?  they hope ibogaine can help
them  and maybe it does help with some people.
Sara

Well, it’s true that I am gossiping a bit. But what I would also like to say
is that, on this list, so many people take the position that because other
things aren’t perfect it’s OK that things with ibogaine are a bit fucked up
too. Like, ibogaine is dangerous but because the other options are too it
doesn’t matter that we don’t tell it. Or that some people treating with
ibogaine are doing it from dubious motivations but this is also OK because
there are dodgy people in the White House or something. I just wanna say
that this is NOT my position and I find it just totally a fear position.
Anyone doing this, my view as a therapist, they are doing it because they
fear their own position with ibogaine is untenable. They have to justify a
lot of fuck-ups to not examine themselves.

If there are more deaths this should be publicized so that people are aware
and can make a better informed choice. If there are dodgy characters it’s ok
to talk and look a bit. That’s what I think.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 26 May 2005 16:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

A guy by the name of Chiel Coen, if I remember correctly, was
selling this
stuff at www.iboga.nl. I think he said they were from the Gabon and used
to
make a few big claims. I heard he had a alcohol problem and had
died a few
years back. Not sure if this was true.

There does seem to be something about ibogaine which attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few.
Then again,
who am I to talk?!

Nick

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaine OT don’t read this
Date: May 30, 2005 at 6:43:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When is the movie coming out???
:o) (seruoussly)  (and tinks….)
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 30 May 2005 5:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaine OT don’t read this

I’m crouched behind a big bush watching the cops go by the party I was just having fun at. Mother fuckers screw up a good thing every time. How was I to know that Mr. Wrong was having a bad day. He must have run out of Chivas or something. Shit when the party was going good he was leading the rhumba line. We should have let him in on the coke we were snorting. Anyway, that doesn’t explain the rocks I have in my hand. These damn cops need to learn a lesson. My buddy Fuzzy lets the first one fly. Wham, direct hit. I can’t believe how bright those lights are when they hit ’em and put the car in reverse. Dumb asses, we’re already two streets over from where they sit with the lights on and we’re laughin’ like hyena’s. We know every back yard cut through and drainage ditch in the ‘hood’. No way they can catch us. More later

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaine OT don’t read this
Date: May 30, 2005 at 1:37:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m crouched behind a big bush watching the cops go by the party I was just having fun at. Mother fuckers screw up a good thing every time. How was I to know that Mr. Wrong was having a bad day. He must have run out of Chivas or something. Shit when the party was going good he was leading the rhumba line. We should have let him in on the coke we were snorting. Anyway, that doesn’t explain the rocks I have in my hand. These damn cops need to learn a lesson. My buddy Fuzzy lets the first one fly. Wham, direct hit. I can’t believe how bright those lights are when they hit ’em and put the car in reverse. Dumb asses, we’re already two streets over from where they sit with the lights on and we’re laughin’ like hyena’s. We know every back yard cut through and drainage ditch in the ‘hood’. No way they can catch us. More later

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] that fucking dangling carrot
Date: May 29, 2005 at 7:47:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I survived the weekend, as I inevitably do.  I made it back to home
sweet home, and am hiding in my room, trying not to listen to the
ridiculous snippets from “ocean’s 12” that keep coming in from the
living room.  Groovy soundtrack, though.  Way groovy.
I had to give a talk on the evils of heroin and the impossibilities of
receiving decent care, and used it as an opportunity to open some eyes
to the daily struggles and bigger issues of recovery.  It was
incredibly aggrevating to hear myself spouting the wonders of a
treatment that I can’t seem to get my hot little fingers wrapped
around.  the response was wonderful, though, and it was nice to be
able to be honest about my shit and not feel the burn of the neon
junky sign that’s hung above my head for the last 18 or so years.  I
could’ve done without the whole Q & A session about what bags look
like, do you have to use a spoon, how much is this, how did you do
THAT, WHY did you do that, and you can’t be serious, those aren’t
really ALL track marks;I didn’t know there were veins in your (fill in
the blank), and do they ever fade away more than that?  Good
question-do they ever stop being angry purpley red pits, snakes,  and
chasms of despair?  I haven’t used anything involving needles in a
while, and my body still looks like I skipped naked through a mine
field.  I don’t know if there’s that much cocoa butter in the world.
Some cuban guy in south beach was trying to convince me to bathe in my
own urine, occasionally drinking it to rid myself of them.  i dunno
about THAT…
I can barely keep my eyes open, I’m out of subutex, and, except a
teeny little joint, haven’t the means to push through this with
assistance.  Fun with a capitol F U!!!!  That’s how i’m feeling, true
believers.  fucked.  but this too shall pass, and i leave you to your
own (de)vices.  Have I mentioned it’s officially black fly season?
love you all for putting up with me
tink

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From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sociopath/trickster – Ed Conn
Date: May 29, 2005 at 10:48:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The trickster/sociopath comment made by Nick is very relevant and deserves greater attention to detail. It is an accurate observation and one that effectively goes unanswered. What I guess you are saying is that providers of ibogaine tend to present or as you experience it have this aspect prevalent to their personalities. In some cases yes and in others no. The key to understnading this is in understanding developmental psychology and the formulation of personality constructs or expressions, and especially artound the area of ‘alternative’ health practioners shall we say. But even of that it is a sub set, and therefore we need to look more closely. Why certain ones and not others.

How this is traditionally explained is that as the consiousness is opened to more subtle or intrinsic levels of understanding, or information, some would say higher levels of consciousness, it causes arousal within the psyche. The consideration within this is the effect it has on the ego. The ego or central aspect of the personality as a result can shift, and infact shifting is in some cases what we want. It is in fact why in some cases people using ibogaine are lifted out of depression; the area of their psyche in which their core being was residing has been shifted. The danger is that this shift is not stabilised or grounded, that is maintained so that it can settle into a normal form of stasis. If it does not what we experience is what is called distortion. The distortion is expressed in the actions, language and expressions of that individual. It is the result of non integration of aroused material. It is why these practices of psychological arousal are always traditionally done in relation to a outside steadying figure, who has been through the changes themselves, understands the processes and has integrated and developed the ability to do it themselves. They know the terrain in other words. Historically this individual is called a shaman, in our modern times it is more often a psychotherapist; someone who has ascended and descended many many times under supervision and is effectively also a part of a community – a registered and maintained profession. The whole key to this is integration. The distortions are elements of unresolved material which therefore get acted out in social dynamics. Or get picked up on as Nick has done here. We are sensitive to these things as human beings.

The integration of aspects of personilites is often the journey into pain, it is through pain that the frozen aspects of personlity that have evolved through out a lifetime dissolve and thaw. The
persoanlity then shifts and becomes more archetypal – it is integrated. Integration is the pathway of growth, once integrated one advances toward being able to use this aspect of personality at will for expression, without its distortions. It has therefore become a facet, the more it is used the more it becomes polished. Think of people like psychological performers, where the trickster is present but the aspect of the sociopath has diminished, take it a step further and you have the saint – but again there is often a sense of comedy, but probably or maybe not so pointed. It is effectively then an evolutionary  curve of growth and development.

The trickster is an archetypal persoanlity that exists in many cultures, it is the sociopath which suggests the presence on unresolved material or not having gone dep enough into persoanl material. The myth being that the use of entheogenic substances alone can do this, it can start the process of arousal of awareness but that is only the start. The peripheral areas of this being that it becomes a trap within itself pregnant with all sorts of allusions to therapy and the seeking of higher consciousness. It equally becomes a form of repression itself and the avoidance of pain. Arthur Janov makes this plainly clear when he says the desire in such behaviour is to chase the high, this therefore is no different to chasing the first hit of crack. It is chasing an experience in memory and idea rather than the engaging of relationship to life itself and the history of pain and rejection. Thus to do therapy properly it requires the curtailment of all drug usage, and that is the journey, freedom from the ghosts and phantoms of the psyche and all those things which prevent us from being who we can become.

As for the medical entrepreneur…well that’s another story.

Ed Conn.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Fe…
Date: May 29, 2005 at 9:44:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rach, when I was in Taos, New Mexico I met some for real back to living off
the land dudes. They were most defenitly into being self sufficiant. Taos has a
feel all of it’s own. At one point after eating an awsome breakfast burrito
(all veggie) we went next door to the pawn shop and looked at guns, they were
all well oiled and in good shape. All the guitars were in tune and they even
had a resinator slide guitar tuned to open G that played like a bitch. I wanted
it bad. Taos is a great place to be. I’d like to live there sometime.
Randy

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] parents and school and detoxing, oh my!
Date: May 28, 2005 at 10:01:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And the beat goes on…
any happy thoughts would be greatly appreciated if sent this way.
luv
tink

*%)()(WEIRD WILD AND WHACKY HAPPY LAUGHY GIGGLY CHUCKLY SMILEY THOUGHTS TO
TINK”:&%&##%%@))))

LUFF KIRK

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From: Vivienne Elanta <vivienneelanta@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 28, 2005 at 6:42:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If it does help then I can’t help but mention it might help to give ibogaine to
everyone in the white house in the united states, maybe all politicos in all
countries. Nearly all of them show strong signs of having the disease of
sociopathy.

Blessed be
Vivienne Elanta

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Nick wrote “There does seem to be something about ibogaine which

attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then
again,
who am I to talk?!”.

Nick

Then don’t say it. who cares?
well, there are sociopaths everywhere and in all levels.
they are sick people who need help,alright?  they hope ibogaine can help
them  and maybe it does help with some people.
Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 26 May 2005 16:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

A guy by the name of Chiel Coen, if I remember correctly, was
selling this
stuff at www.iboga.nl. I think he said they were from the Gabon and
used
to
make a few big claims. I heard he had a alcohol problem and had
died a few
years back. Not sure if this was true.

There does seem to be something about ibogaine which attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then
again,
who am I to talk?!

Nick

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:

I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] something a little less, well, depressing…
Date: May 28, 2005 at 5:02:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This Is a Perfect Moment

It’s a perfect moment for many reasons, but especially because you and
I are waking up from our sleepwalking thumbsucking dumbclucking
collusion with the masters of illusion and destruction.

Thanks to them, from whom the painful blessings flow, we are waking up.

Their wars and tortures,
their crimes against nature,

extinctions of species
and brand new diseases.

Their spying and lying
in the name of the father,
sterilizing seeds and
trademarking water.

Molestations of god,
celebrations of shame,
stealing our dreams and
changing our names.

Their ingenious commercials
and bloodsucking hustles,
their endless rehearsals
for the end of the world.

Thanks to them, from whom the painful blessings flow, we are waking up.

*

Their painful blessings are cracking open more and more gashes in the
shrunken and crippled mass hallucination that is mistakenly called
“reality.” And through the fractures, ripe eternity is flooding in;
news of the soul’s true home is pouring in; our allies from the other
side of the veil are swarming in: inspiring us to become smarter and
wilder and kinder and trickier.

We are waking up.

As heaven and earth come together, as the dreamtime and daytime merge,
we register the shockingly exhilarating fact that we are in
charge–you and I are in charge–of creating a brand new world. Not in
some distant time or faraway place, but right here and right now.

*

As we stand on this brink, as we dance on this verge, we can’t let the
ruling fools of the dying world sustain their curses. We have to rise
up and fight their insane logic; defy, resist, and prevent their
tragic magic; unleash our sacred rage and supercharge it.

But overthrowing the living dead is not enough. Protesting the
well-dressed monsters is not enough. We can’t afford to be consumed
with our anger; can’t be obsessed and possessed with their danger. Our
sweet animal bodies need love and fertility. Our imaginations crave
tastes of infinity.

In the New World that we are creating, we’ve got to be steeped in
lusty compassion and ecstatic duty, ingenious love and insurrectionary
beauty. We need radical curiosity and reverent pranks, voracious
listening and ferocious thanks.

*

So I’m curious, my fellow creators. Since you and I are in charge of
making a brand New World, where do we begin? What wild truths do we
want at the heart of our transformations? What fresh codes and stories
will be our oracles? What crafty questions and uplifting desires will
be our inspirations?

Here’s where I want to begin: with pronoia. Pronoia is the opposite of
paranoia–the antidote for paranoia.

Pronoia is the true theory that all of creation is conspiring to
shower you with blessings.

Pronoia is the guarantee that life always gives you exactly what you
need, exactly when you need it.

Pronoia says that everything alive is working very hard to liberate
you from ignorance and transform you into the gift of love you were
born to be.

*

I am allergic to dogma. I thrive on questions, and don’t trust any
idea that tempts me to believe in it absolutely. There are very few
perceptions or theories about which I am totally certain.

But I am absolutely certain that pronoia describes the way the world
actually is. Pronoia is wetter than water, truer than the facts, and
stronger than death. It smells like cedar smoke in early spring rain,
and if you close your eyes right now, you can feel it shimmering like
the aurora borealis in your soft, warm animal body.

Some Buddhists say the inherent nature of existence is suffering; they
long to escape into nirvana. Many Catholics say the inherent nature of
life is sinful; they long for the purified peace of heaven. But
pronoia assures us that the inherent nature of life is to liberate us.

Being born on the earth is the highest honor and greatest privilege.
To be alive as human beings gives us the chance to pull off exquisite
and Herculean feats of magic that are not possible in nirvana or
heaven or any other so-called paradise, higher dimension, or better
place.

I’m not exaggerating or indulging in poetic metaphor when I say this.
Visualize it if you dare.

The sweet stuff that quenches all of our longing is not far away in
some other time and place. It’s right here and right now.

As Elizabeth Barrett Browning knew, “Earth is crammed with heaven.”

*

-Rob Brezny
(from his Free Will Astrology site)

I am a mess, but I thank you all again for bearing with me as i slowly
drive myself in and out of the doldrums.
love
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] parents and school and detoxing, oh my!
Date: May 28, 2005 at 4:27:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m at school, working on that story I’ve been writing,and having the
worse day.  I made the switch from subutex to, well, other things, and
am living on the power of positive thinking, trying not to freak out
because I have no idea which way any of this will go now.  Back to
feeling like everything is spiralling because I have no control over
the actions of others, whatever the intent might have been.  Lost and
floating, and smiling at The Mommy Memoir Club as they escape their
families for some scholastic fun and heavy drinking.  It’s hard to
focus on anything when there’s so much being made of things that I
just don’t understand.  Pressure and pain are pressure and pain, but
my world won’t collapse if I haven’t finished a book annotation, and
these people are crying about it.  Perspective check, tink.
I’m just tired and scared and have no one to sit across from right now
who understands anything at all about what i’m going through.  i live
in a pretty isolated area, and even at school, what is considered a
‘big city’ here is more along the lines of a small suburb to me.  At
least I ave the opportunity to go to school right now, though it’s
largely due to some hard core grant and scholarship investigation.
The school isn’t exactly first rate, but I do have a good adviser,
although he keeps looking at me like I’m an alien, freshly sprung from
the stomach of urban decay.  They have no common reference point from
which to relate with me, and I have a big problem considering
pedicures a major event.
And the beat goes on…
any happy thoughts would be greatly appreciated if sent this way.
luv
tink

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 28, 2005 at 10:16:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick wrote “There does seem to be something about ibogaine which
attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then again,
who am I to talk?!”.

Nick

Then don’t say it. who cares?
well, there are sociopaths everywhere and in all levels.
they are sick people who need help,alright?  they hope ibogaine can help
them  and maybe it does help with some people.
Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 26 May 2005 16:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

A guy by the name of Chiel Coen, if I remember correctly, was selling this
stuff at www.iboga.nl. I think he said they were from the Gabon and used
to
make a few big claims. I heard he had a alcohol problem and had died a few
years back. Not sure if this was true.

There does seem to be something about ibogaine which attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then again,
who am I to talk?!

Nick

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=————————————————————–

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 27, 2005 at 2:50:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 26 May 2005 16:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

A guy by the name of Chiel Coen, if I remember correctly, was selling this
stuff at www.iboga.nl. I think he said they were from the Gabon and used to
make a few big claims. I heard he had a alcohol problem and had died a few
years back. Not sure if this was true.

There does seem to be something about ibogaine which attracts the
trickster-sociopath type, if Chiel did fit this category. Or “medical
entrepreneur”, as Peter Cohen puts it. There have been a few. Then again,
who am I to talk?!

Nick

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 27, 2005 at 1:16:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fantastico plot analysis and breakdown, Father Beal.  Especially
enjoyed the multiple imaginations triggered by the professed authorial
attempt to be “true to the Root.”  An interesting philosophical field
to try to inhabit.

I saw the word “woe” the other day and laughed, because at one point
in his recovery, Jeff was so dang depressed he was all “Woe is me,”
for real, in the most poignant & profound way.  I remember in his
post-treatment days, that he really wanted me to cut up this
pineapple, and he got so sad thinking I was never going to get it for
him.  Our time matrices were quite different in that after-care
period.  He wanted to eat lots of funky foods, and requested
unexpected beverages at unexpected times.  18 hours after his “flood”
I was feeding him cold meats and some kind of odd-flavored juice.  We
trusted that he knew what was best for him.

Now more than 6 months out of his methadone detox, he’s lost his taste
for sugar & dropped some serious pounds (and pants size), even if
he’ll now join his Irish bride in a few more of her pints than he used
to.  It’s really something.  Thanks y’all for doing what you do and
projecting the healing vibe.

Saw a fun movie in Santa Cruz the other night, “off the map,” about a
back-to-the-land family near Taos, NM told mostly from the
coming-of-age transition of the 12-year old daughter.  Sam Elliot
plays a guy who in a profound depression, & Joan Allen his gorgeous
earthmama “granddaughter of a Hopi woman” (??? although I won’t
question that too deeply ), and more cast & great landscape & New
Mexico energy.

It’s not just the Root, or a root, its a freedom root.  Ambivalence
indeed about an illogically scheduled “drug” medicine like that.
Profound ambivalence.

Speaking of t.v., saw the 2nd or 3rd episode of “The West Wing,” where
the Chief of Staff starts attending the Vice President’s
hyperanonymous Meeting filled with powerful men.  When is it going to
be a GOOD thing for all of us to have a recovering leader in the White
House????  When, Mr. President?????!

w/foggy love from the Pacific, rachel

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The Poppies of Afghanistan
Date: May 27, 2005 at 10:47:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

since summer 2002 – after the taliban had vanished – berlin is flooded with cheap and good heroin from afghanistan. bush did a good job for the junkies here.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The Poppies of Afghanistan
Date: May 27, 2005 at 10:11:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Poppies of Afghanistan

Published: May 27, 2005
It requires breathtaking audacity for United States officials to complain that efforts to curb opium poppy production in Afghanistan have been lagging because President Hamid Karzai “has been unwilling to assert strong leadership.” Washington waited almost two and a half years to heed Mr. Karzai’s calls for help on this problem.
Even now, the Bush administration is disproportionately concentrating on the most visible, but least effective approach, forcible crop eradication, which merely moves the problem around and enriches traffickers by raising the price of their opium holdings. It is also creating turmoil in rural areas during the run-up to this year’s crucial parliamentary elections.
Mr. Karzai was right to use his just-completed four-day visit to the United States to press for coordinating eradication with the crop substitution, agricultural credit and alternative development programs that would provide Afghanistan’s rural population with better ways to feed their families. The money that Washington has promised for those broader efforts has been lagging behind, and the planning that will be required to spend that money wisely has barely begun.
snip-
more at above URL

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Richard Harris <richardh_2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine maintenence
Date: May 27, 2005 at 3:42:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, killer article. First thing I’ve read in a
long time that isn’t just repeating the same thing yet
again, great summary of low dosing and effects, much
appreciate all you do.

What I appreciate more then anything is that you did
not disrespect those who need narcotcs. Round of
applause for that one. You don’t ever judge anyone, at
least this is what I take from reading all of your
words, but a big problem and maybe it is only in my
head but I know I can’t be the only one, is disrespect
and a condescending attitude to people who really need
pain meds.

Most of this from people who don’t know anything about
either chronic pain management problems, or drug
addiction. “I used to drink too much or smoke
cigarettes” Whatev, fuck off.

Newsflash, but pain medications exist for a reason
other then getting high. Some of us are not going to
be off them and we are not all in denial and just
waiting for someone with a holier then thou attitude
to show us the light.

Maybe it is only me but the overall attitude I find
here is disrespect to anyone who needs pain meds. No
ifs and or buts. You’re using, you’re dirty, we’re
better then you. You didn’t understand what ibogaine
gave you, only I understand.

The only gripe I have and it is one I have with the
MindVox site too, is even using the cateogry “clean”
and “dirty” and yes I know you put them in quotes
Patrick, no hard feelings but I do want to point it
out.

If we can accept people who “western society” as you
put it Patrick, would say belong in a psych ward,
talking about demonic possession, their spiritual
journies and entities, then it should not be some huge
stretch to also be accepted as human beings not human
dirt.

“People are human beings, not the summation of their
symptomology” that’s one of your quotes Patrick.
Here’s another, “I am a human being and should be
judged by my actions, not what metabolites I’m
excreting in my urine”. That’s yours’ too.

Peace

Rich

— Dave Clark <rfdavec@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Patrick, thank you! My name is Dave and I’ve
been through alot to
say the least…I’m 45, I work as an electronic tech
programming and
troubleshooting…My wife is quite ill and stays in
bed most of the
time, she fades omre every day. presently I’m going
to a methadone
clinic in New Orleans La. and have been for almost
two years…I’m
just tired of this I do my work etc and am clean all
the time but this
meth I want to get off of it. To tell the truth I
miss my old self, I
miss the old Dave who was full of spiritualism,
happy all the time and
into a walk with God.
I miss my old self and someday want him back. I
don’t know if I will
ever do this because the road for me that led to
methadone didn’t
start with heroin and even at this late stage in the
game, I’ve not
done heroin more then twice and when I did it was
because my meds
weren’t doing the trick any longer and I missed all
the hoo haw ya’ll
dopefiends write about, to me it was another drug
that I tried, then
tried again when I thought the first time was bad
dope or some such,
but it did not work for me. I don’t know if that’s a
sad statement to
how high my tolerence is but the crux for me is I am
a pain management
person. I took a fall in my early 20’s and had the
roof of a building
I was wiring up fall on top of me. Long story short,
6 broken bones,
spinal injury, 3 years physical therapy,
acupuncture, no help.
I work sitting in a chair these days not because I
have to because my
disability pays more then enough of the bills, but
if I didn’t do
something I’d have gone stark raving bonkers long
ago.
I found your writings years ago, that led me to
mindvox, saw ya’all at
new orleans and you give a great show. You’re a big
inspiration, but
not one I thought had any use to my old self because
being clean is
not something I think can be done in my case, over
and out.
This here article is something I’ve never heard
about at all and
whatever does happen in the end, it is something I
want to try, your
ibogaine maintence with opiates at the same time is
something brand
new. When I thought I’ve heard about every miracle
ibogaine can do,
there’s a new one. I have a lot of questions, a lot
of thoughts, lot
of thinking to do but tonight you have given me
something I have not
had in a long time, hope. So maybe this might be for
me.
‘God bless you Patrick and God’s love to all the
freaks you’ve
gathered here, feels like a rainbow tribe gathering
online some of the
time, brings me back to happier times. I enjoy
reading ya’all, take
care
Dave

/]

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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new Resources site
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From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!
Date: May 27, 2005 at 2:03:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanx kv!!!!!

On 5/26/2005, “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:

I was reading through mindvox, it’s in the articles section. I don’t
know what the url is for the pdf, but it’s here

Articles

The pdf is much easier to read, the html version uses the same style
MAPS does, which is tiny little letters on a beige background, very
hard to read or maybe it is my monitor.

Its the second article from the top, digital & epoptica Ibogaine in
the 21st Century:
Boosters, Tune-ups and Maintenance. I don’t know how long its been
there but it was not online last week.

KV

On 5/19/05, Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m sorry I don’t know where it is online? I read the magazine MAPS
publishes, they have copies at a acupuncture center here.

KV

On 19 May 2005 04:56:22 -0000, Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com> wrote:

could i getta link to this article?
thanx
marcus
On 5/19/2005, “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick I wanted to apologize profusely, I had opportunity to read the
new issue of MAPS. Brilliant article! Thank you from the bottom of my
heart, this answered the questions I’ve been pestering you about for
months!

I am so very sorry to have been rude but you do know had you written
back one sentence saying your talk and so much more would be published
in the near future, I wouldn’t have carried on so!

Thank you, in one article I think you covered a hundred messages of
debate here about low dose and “maintenance” and you did answer with
great clarity about “dirty maintenance”. Thank you so much cutie,
you’re a brilliant young man and wrote something that hasn’t ever been
written about ibogaine before.

For the fifth or sixth time in this message, I am very sorry for being
rude before, there is so much anger here sometimes it’s easy to lose
sight of how much you are doing. Thank you!

To post one more point relevant to the last days here, MAPS did write
that the clinic in Mexico was shut down. They did not say why or
mention the death.

KV

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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p,l,&u
marcus

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx…. to the group
Date: May 27, 2005 at 2:10:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is
very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly
“normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but
specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

Hi Mustafa,
thanks for writing,
it’s good to know you are still clean,I wish you all the best.
be well,

Sara Glatt,

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From: Dave Clark <rfdavec@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine maintenence
Date: May 27, 2005 at 1:28:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick, thank you! My name is Dave and I’ve been through alot to
say the least…I’m 45, I work as an electronic tech programming and
troubleshooting…My wife is quite ill and stays in bed most of the
time, she fades omre every day. presently I’m going to a methadone
clinic in New Orleans La. and have been for almost two years…I’m
just tired of this I do my work etc and am clean all the time but this
meth I want to get off of it. To tell the truth I miss my old self, I
miss the old Dave who was full of spiritualism, happy all the time and
into a walk with God.
I miss my old self and someday want him back. I don’t know if I will
ever do this because the road for me that led to methadone didn’t
start with heroin and even at this late stage in the game, I’ve not
done heroin more then twice and when I did it was because my meds
weren’t doing the trick any longer and I missed all the hoo haw ya’ll
dopefiends write about, to me it was another drug that I tried, then
tried again when I thought the first time was bad dope or some such,
but it did not work for me. I don’t know if that’s a sad statement to
how high my tolerence is but the crux for me is I am a pain management
person. I took a fall in my early 20’s and had the roof of a building
I was wiring up fall on top of me. Long story short, 6 broken bones,
spinal injury, 3 years physical therapy, acupuncture, no help.
I work sitting in a chair these days not because I have to because my
disability pays more then enough of the bills, but if I didn’t do
something I’d have gone stark raving bonkers long ago.
I found your writings years ago, that led me to mindvox, saw ya’all at
new orleans and you give a great show. You’re a big inspiration, but
not one I thought had any use to my old self because being clean is
not something I think can be done in my case, over and out.
This here article is something I’ve never heard about at all and
whatever does happen in the end, it is something I want to try, your
ibogaine maintence with opiates at the same time is something brand
new. When I thought I’ve heard about every miracle ibogaine can do,
there’s a new one. I have a lot of questions, a lot of thoughts, lot
of thinking to do but tonight you have given me something I have not
had in a long time, hope. So maybe this might be for me.
‘God bless you Patrick and God’s love to all the freaks you’ve
gathered here, feels like a rainbow tribe gathering online some of the
time, brings me back to happier times. I enjoy reading ya’all, take
care
Dave

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question
Date: May 27, 2005 at 1:28:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ben can you please send the information to obtain another copy of the dvd it was a wonderful job and we would like to share it with freinds. thanx    rocky

Ben De Loenen <daluna@mindvox.com> wrote:

Dear Shelley,

The format for the US is NTSC and the format for Europ is PAL. In
Australia for example it’s PAL too,…
For an overview, look at:

http://www.barrel-of-monkeys.com/graphics/prod/dvdplayers/tvideostds.html

Best Regards,

Ben De Loenen
Director/Producer

Op 26/5/2005 schreef “shelley krupa” :

>Good Day all you ibonauts, hey Im trying to buy the ib video ,but there are two formatsto choose form ,pal & ntsc ,does anyone know what that means?,humbly shell
>
>Fakeplacebo wrote:Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is
>very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly “normal”.
>I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy
>Sara and Howard
>
>Best Regards
>Mustafa Izgi from Turkey
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
>
>
>
>

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Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new Resources site!

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx…. to the group
Date: May 26, 2005 at 9:27:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mustafa,

So good to hear from you and so glad things are working out.

Howard

In a message dated 5/26/05 9:13:51 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain
is very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly
“normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!
Date: May 26, 2005 at 6:39:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was reading through mindvox, it’s in the articles section. I don’t
know what the url is for the pdf, but it’s here

Articles

The pdf is much easier to read, the html version uses the same style
MAPS does, which is tiny little letters on a beige background, very
hard to read or maybe it is my monitor.

Its the second article from the top, digital & epoptica Ibogaine in
the 21st Century:
Boosters, Tune-ups and Maintenance. I don’t know how long its been
there but it was not online last week.

KV

On 5/19/05, Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m sorry I don’t know where it is online? I read the magazine MAPS
publishes, they have copies at a acupuncture center here.

KV

On 19 May 2005 04:56:22 -0000, Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com> wrote:

could i getta link to this article?
thanx
marcus
On 5/19/2005, “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick I wanted to apologize profusely, I had opportunity to read the
new issue of MAPS. Brilliant article! Thank you from the bottom of my
heart, this answered the questions I’ve been pestering you about for
months!

I am so very sorry to have been rude but you do know had you written
back one sentence saying your talk and so much more would be published
in the near future, I wouldn’t have carried on so!

Thank you, in one article I think you covered a hundred messages of
debate here about low dose and “maintenance” and you did answer with
great clarity about “dirty maintenance”. Thank you so much cutie,
you’re a brilliant young man and wrote something that hasn’t ever been
written about ibogaine before.

For the fifth or sixth time in this message, I am very sorry for being
rude before, there is so much anger here sometimes it’s easy to lose
sight of how much you are doing. Thank you!

To post one more point relevant to the last days here, MAPS did write
that the clinic in Mexico was shut down. They did not say why or
mention the death.

KV

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 26, 2005 at 12:05:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Dana. I obviously missed the discussion before.
As far as I remember the drug pusher ends up being pinned for the crime on the premise that getting people off drugs would be bad for his business. I guess they got that part right. Lee

Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
Lee Albert wrote:
> I happened to see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain where
> part of the plot included a treatment house for addiction using iboga
> plus a murder where somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has
> two plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.
>
> I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went something like:
>
> 1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider), is cruising around
> in his car hallucinating on iboga and picks up this girl – Mindy. I
> think he gives her iboga too. He is later found dead.

Your one-time viewing seems to have you collapsing the story-lines of
two different characters here. Ed is looking for Mindy, who’s relapsed
alright–but he himself isn’t on ibogaine. He has some for Mindy (never
mind that any one doing what he’s doing wouldn’t have had their
ibogaine along for the ride–what’s he going to do, find her and
administer it on the spot?–or that when Stahl was writing this, the
predominant paradigm was people from his 12 step groups coming back
from treatments at Rosarita, so any actual ibogaine was never in the US
at all!).

You’re confusing Ed with Jamal the thief, who (it’s implied) finds the
ibogaine after Ed’s killed and gets into a car accident after injecting
it and starting to trip while driving. Injecting multiplies the impact
of ibo on the system something like 50 times, so that aspect would hold
up–except that the substance pictured is supposed to be Indra, which
can’t be injected. But the ibogaine physically has to be in the car
for the CSI folk to find it, or the somewhat valid premise that iboga
would be a mystery substance to most police departments doesn’t have a
chance to unfold. The clear clue that Jamal is supposed to have lost
his coordination on iboga is when Brass says “What drug is he on?” and
the hipper Black cop replies “Whatever it is, either he took too much
or not enough.”

>  2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one addiction for
> another,” referring to the taking of iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

It’s supposed to sound like the mission ex-addicts are on to get other
addicts off drugs is the equivalent taking iboga, but the context–Ed
bringing iboga down from the Mountain and pushing it on
everyone–makes it clear the actual critique is that “getting
religious about it” and prosyletizing ibogaine is just another
replacement for chemical addiction.

>  3. A female drug addict (Mindy) in custody (the one who was with Ed
> in the car) says something about the spirits telling her something.
> She was questioned as to her motive for doing something and that was
> her reply.

No, she is threatened with murder charges and says the spirits (Bwiti)
will protect her. It’s meant to show that the ideational impact of an
initiation or treatment persists for months, even after a person
relapses and starts using smack again. (And isn’t the stuff in Vegas
mainly black tar, not white powder? Inconsistencies abound.)

> Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t really understand
> it properly.

Hope this helps.

>  Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I understand its the
> current episode.
>
> Some extracts from plot:
>
> http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top
>
> – Underneath a highway overpass, people gather, doing drugs. Some are
> hooking, and a car glides by. The driver keeps going, asking
> questions, until he finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and
> drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next thing you know,
> he’s dead on the ground, the CSI looking over his body. Watch, wallet
> and shoes are all gone and there’s blood on him.
> – Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car floor. Greg gets
> it and runs tests on the substance. He doesn’t know what it is.
> Grissom checks the microscope. It’s something new.
> – They’ve identified the strange substance, which is, in layman’s
> term, a substance that can cure physical addiction. Its intended use
> is as a hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from the Iboga
> tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not legal in the U.S. Brass says
> Burnell was a dealer, no matter how you look at it.

“Intended use” is all relative. In North America it’s intended use to
interrupt drug addiction–and that the hallucinogenesis is a side
effect. It’s from the bark of the root, not the tree as it says in the
dialog. And they never point out that it’s legal in Canada and Mexico,
and that in real life, you don’t have to travel long by car to get to
Rosarita. But that would undermine the premise of Ed even being under
the freeway looking for Mindy–with the ibogaine on him.

> – At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake Sinclair, the guy
> who runs it. They don’t give out illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy,
> is leaving, as the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her clean.
> They’re shown a video of what she looked like two months ago. A real
> mess. When Ed first arrived, he was an asset, but they he got
> ‘religious’ about it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect,
> became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.

Harm reduction and abstinence-based therapy are conveniently mixed up
here, but Jake seems to be saying that if some one has been dosed with
Ibogaine he’ll let the trip run its course, even though the standard
reaction would probably be to treat it like acid and send out for
thorazine. Jake actually gives a pretty good understanding of what ibo
does and it limitations. But Stahl is hallucinating what he think a
provider would be like. Where is the intake protocol? I know of no one
who’s willing to give ibo now without at least a EKG, not to mention
EEG and liver panel. What kind of a pusher sends out for medical tests?

> – Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that has certainly seen
> better days. It’s a crackhouse and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A
> man answers. Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the
> floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass just enter and
> find Mindy on the floor, hardly cleaned up anymore. She’s back to
> drugs, despite Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which made
> her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near her. “Did you come here to
> remember, or to forget?” he asks.

The person who wrote this actually screwed up, in that the ibo DIDN’T
make her high. She’s high all right, but her response–“Ed gave me
ibogaine”–is intended to divert the two cops from the fact that she’s
obviously just done the massive dose of smack Riley gave her after they
fucked. Grissom rejoins “…and then you didn’t want to get high any
more.” And her cry is meant to convey that she went back to smack
because she missed it, when all was said and done: “I never wanted to
feel.”

> – Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and sounds horrible. Brass
> points out she’s up for a murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also
> shows she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell was looking
> for her, as he knew she was using. Brass arrests her.
> – Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged underwear. Sad. No
> sign of blood, however. But, Greg comes in with a skin sample that
> doesn’t belong to Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the
> door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent in sex.
> – The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and Renaldo is already
> having sex with another junkie. However, they police realize that if
> Ed cleaned up addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He gave
> her drugs, and then he went out and murdered Burnell. DNA evidence
> proves his guilt.As the female junkie sags down the hall, Grissom
> doesn’t see the need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,” he
> says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created prison.

Not so much bad for his business, as bad for his sex life. It’s also
kind of implied that Burnell may have strayed from ethical practice in
becoming involved with Mindy himself, so there’s a jealousy
undercurrent.

> Comment:
>
> I am curious as to what this episode is trying to say about iboga?

That it’s extremely emotionally conflicting for police to crack down on
a Schedule I drug (non-maintenance) that stops drug addiction and is
not used at raves.

> Anyone seen it in English and understood it properly?

I can send you a duplicate, but its NTSC VHS, not-playable in Europe
unless you have U.S. equipment.

> Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I. reports?
>
> Lee
>

They draw on current cases. The Indra part comes from LAPD finding a
body of an opiate OD together with both Indra and opiates, for
instance. And as I said, Stahl got the idea from people he met at group
who’d come back from Mexico. He told people he was going to be “true to
the root.”

Understand that we had to go into our protest at CBS national
headquarters (the Black Rock) blind. We knew there would be some kind
of inaccuracy involving some one driving on Ibo, but what we were
really upset about was that CBS, instead of treating this as a serious
documentary subject a la Ben DeLoenen, was exploiting ibogaine and
pandering to the drug war stereotype of Burnell as just another pusher,
and ibogaine just another drug. Were I able to do it over, well, in the
office here we have a picture of Bozo the Clown with a red ‘banned’
crossed circle super-imposed, and the words “No Clowning Around With
Ibogaine!”

I don’t think it’s respectful to compare Bwiti religious ceremony with
clowns and mimes, even if the Fang do use face paint.

All that being said, the episode has aired four times here, and
millions have at least heard about ibogaine as a result. That’s why I
pestered the Kerry campaign with it–in addition to other, much more
scientific stuff. To let them know that Ibo is now a mass phenomena
that can’t just be ignored.

Still think it’s a good idea to send Theresa Heinz the new video, too.

Dana/cnw

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 26, 2005 at 11:48:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This sort of protocol has not been discussed much. I think that
someone in Holland was selling low-dose capsules for this purpose,
but as far as I remember no one who actually did it did it told
their story here.

Probably the dose would be adjusted for the individual. If I were
to do it, I’d try 1 to 2 mg/kg to start with, allowing a few hours
free of distraction to observe the effect, then adjust up or down.
I haven’t been substance-addicted, but have used doses around .1
mg/kg a few times a week for a month or so at a time. It wore me
down physically but helped me let go of some unreasonable
expectations about life.

The value of any ibogaine treatment is likely to be enhanced by
therapy, and low doses are easier to integrate with the pace of
normal personal growth. I believe that what iboga is usually
helping to fix is patterns that keep/protect us from connecting
with each other.

I think part of the appeal of the big-dose experience for personal
change is that it is seen as solitary, allowing the belief that the
ego will somehow retain its isolation. But in the end deep change
is probably necessary for those of us who seek iboga, and in my
experience that takes time. It may be that the big-dose experience
is economically optimal for addiction treatment.

In any case, beware: ibogaine resets tolerance for opiates, so
there is a danger of overdosing with them after ibogaine.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 17:24:04 -0700 Rick Strcat
<rickstrcat@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really
serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several
days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone
with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today –
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx…. to the group
Date: May 26, 2005 at 10:53:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mustafa,

I’m sure that others remember you too. It’s good to hear that
you’re doing well.

On Thu, 26 May 2005 06:13:06 -0700 Fakeplacebo
<fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and
Ibogain is
very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly
“normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody
but specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=————————————————————–

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——=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: “Daniel Trivin” <iam@dtrivin.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question
Date: May 26, 2005 at 10:18:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Generally, PAL is for Europe and NTSC is for the US, Canada, and Japan.
Check your video player’s manual to be sure.
Daniel

—–Original Message—–
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:54 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question

Good Day all you ibonauts, hey Im trying to buy the ib video ,but there are two formatsto choose form ,pal & ntsc ,does anyone know what that means?,humbly shell

Fakeplacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is
very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly “normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question
Date: May 26, 2005 at 9:55:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Shelley,

The format for the US is NTSC and the format for Europ is PAL. In
Australia for example it’s PAL too,…
For an overview, look at:

http://www.barrel-of-monkeys.com/graphics/prod/dvdplayers/tvideostds.html

Best Regards,

Ben De Loenen
Director/Producer

Op 26/5/2005 schreef “shelley krupa” <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>:

Good Day all you ibonauts, hey Im trying to buy the ib video ,but there are two formatsto choose form ,pal & ntsc ,does anyone know what that means?,humbly shell

Fakeplacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is
very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly “normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question
Date: May 26, 2005 at 10:08:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PAL is a format used in Europe, NTSC is a format used in the US.

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question
Date: May 26, 2005 at 9:54:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Day all you ibonauts, hey Im trying to buy the ib video ,but there are two formatsto choose form ,pal & ntsc ,does anyone know what that means?,humbly shell

Fakeplacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is
very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly “normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rite of passage question
Date: May 26, 2005 at 9:53:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Day all you ibonauts, hey Im trying to buy the ib video ,but there are two formatsto choose form ,pal & ntsc ,does anyone know what that means?,humbly shell

Fakeplacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is
very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly “normal”.
I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy
Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Fakeplacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thanx…. to the group
Date: May 26, 2005 at 9:13:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is there anybody still remember me in here? I’m still clean and Ibogain is very powerfull tool. But it’s very strong tool. My life is totaly “normal”. I’m working, smoking joint and I’m very happy. Thanks everybody but specialy Sara and Howard

Best Regards
Mustafa Izgi from Turkey

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] words for the day
Date: May 25, 2005 at 9:25:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“…is to attempt seeing Truth without Falsehood.  It is the attempt
to see light without knowing Darkness.  It cannot be.”
-from “Manual of Muad ‘Dib” by Princess Irulan in “Dune”
love
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 25, 2005 at 8:39:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would love a copy of it, it you have it
tink

On 5/25/05, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
Lee Albert wrote:
I happened to see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain where
part of the plot included a treatment house for addiction using iboga
plus a murder where somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has
two plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.

I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went something like:

1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider), is cruising around
in his car hallucinating on iboga and picks up this girl – Mindy. I
think he gives her iboga too. He is later found dead.

Your one-time viewing seems to have you collapsing the story-lines of
two different characters here. Ed is looking for Mindy, who’s relapsed
alright–but he himself isn’t on ibogaine. He has some for Mindy (never
mind that any one doing what he’s doing wouldn’t have had their
ibogaine along for the ride–what’s he going to do, find her and
administer it on the spot?–or that when Stahl was writing this, the
predominant paradigm was people from his 12 step groups coming back
from treatments at Rosarita, so any actual ibogaine was never in the US
at all!).

You’re confusing Ed with Jamal the thief, who (it’s implied) finds the
ibogaine after Ed’s killed and gets into a car accident after injecting
it and starting to trip while driving. Injecting multiplies the impact
of ibo on the system something like 50 times, so that aspect would hold
up–except that the substance pictured is supposed to be Indra, which
can’t be injected. But the ibogaine physically  has to be in the car
for the CSI folk to find it, or the somewhat valid premise that iboga
would be a mystery substance to most police departments doesn’t have a
chance to unfold. The clear clue that Jamal is supposed to have lost
his coordination on iboga is when Brass says “What drug is he on?” and
the hipper Black cop replies “Whatever it is, either he took too much
or not enough.”

2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one addiction for
another,” referring to the taking of iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

It’s supposed to sound like the mission ex-addicts are on to get other
addicts off drugs is the equivalent taking iboga, but the context–Ed
bringing iboga down from  the Mountain and pushing it on
everyone–makes it clear the actual critique is that  “getting
religious about it” and prosyletizing ibogaine is just another
replacement for chemical addiction.

3. A female drugaddict (Mindy) in custody (the one who was with Ed
in the car) says something about the spirits telling her something.
She was questioned as to her motive for doing something and that was
her reply.

No, she is threatened with murder charges and says the spirits (Bwiti)
will protect her. It’s meant to show that the ideational  impact of an
initiation or treatment persists for months, even after a person
relapses and starts using smack again. (And isn’t the stuff in Vegas
mainly black tar, not white powder? Inconsistencies abound.)

Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t really understand
it properly.

Hope this helps.

Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I understand its the
current episode.

Some extracts from plot:

http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top

– Underneath a highway overpass, people gather, doing drugs. Some are
hooking, and a car glides by. The driver keeps going, asking
questions, until he finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and
drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next thing you know,
he’s dead on the ground, the CSI looking over his body. Watch, wallet
and shoes are all gone and there’s blood on him.
– Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car floor. Greg gets
it and runs tests on the substance. He doesn’t know what it is.
Grissom checks the microscope. It’s something new.
– They’ve identified the strange substance, which is, in layman’s
term, a substance that can cure physical addiction. Its intended use
is as a hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from the Iboga
tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not legal in the U.S. Brass says
Burnell was a dealer, no matter how you look at it.

“Intended use” is all relative. In North America it’s intended use to
interrupt drug addiction–and that the hallucinogenesis is a side
effect. It’s from the bark of the root, not the tree as it says in the
dialog. And they never point  out that it’s legal in Canada and Mexico,
and that in real life, you don’t have to travel long by car to get to
Rosarita. But that would undermine the premise of Ed even being under
the freeway looking for Mindy–with the ibogaine on him.

– At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake Sinclair, the guy
who runs it. They don’t give out illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy,
is leaving, as the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her clean.
They’re shown a video of what she looked like two months ago. A real
mess. When Ed first arrived, he was an asset, but they he got
‘religious’ about it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect,
became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.

Harm reduction and abstinence-based therapy are conveniently  mixed up
here, but Jake seems to be saying that if some one has been dosed with
Ibogaine he’ll let the trip run its course, even though the standard
reaction would probably be to treat it like acid and send out for
thorazine. Jake actually gives a pretty good understanding of what ibo
does and it limitations. But Stahl is hallucinating what he think a
provider would be like. Where is the intake protocol? I know of no one
who’s willing to give ibo now without at least a EKG, not to mention
EEG and liver panel. What kind of a pusher sends out for medical tests?

– Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that has certainly seen
better days. It’s a crackhouse and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A
man answers. Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the
floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass just enter and
find Mindy on the floor, hardly cleaned up anymore. She’s back to
drugs, despite Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which made
her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near her. “Did you come here to
remember, or to forget?” he asks.

The person who wrote this actually screwed up, in that the ibo DIDN’T
make her high. She’s high all right, but her response–“Ed gave me
ibogaine”–is intended to divert the two cops from the fact that she’s
obviously just done the massive dose of smack Riley gave her after they
fucked. Grissom rejoins “…and then you didn’t want to get high any
more.” And her cry is meant to convey that she went back to smack
because she missed it, when all was said and done: “I never wanted to
feel.”

– Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and sounds horrible. Brass
points out she’s up for a murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also
shows she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell was looking
for her, as he knew she was using. Brass arrests her.
– Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged underwear. Sad. No
sign of blood, however. But, Greg comes in with a skin sample that
doesn’t belong to Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the
door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent in sex.
– The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and Renaldo is already
having sex with another junkie. However, they police realize that if
Ed cleaned up addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He gave
her drugs, and then he went out and murdered Burnell. DNA evidence
proves his guilt.As the female junkie sags down the hall, Grissom
doesn’t see the need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,” he
says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created prison.

Not so much bad for his business, as bad for his sex life. It’s also
kind of implied that Burnell may have strayed from ethical practice in
becoming involved with Mindy himself, so there’s a jealousy
undercurrent.

Comment:

I am curious as to what this episode is trying to say about iboga?

That it’s extremely emotionally conflicting for police to crack down on
a Schedule I drug (non-maintenance) that stops drug addiction and is
not used at raves.

Anyone seen it in English and understood it properly?

I can send you a duplicate, but its NTSC VHS, not-playable in Europe
unless you have U.S. equipment.

Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I. reports?

Lee

They draw on current cases. The Indra part comes from LAPD finding a
body of an opiate OD together with both Indra and opiates, for
instance. And as I said, Stahl got the idea from people he met at group
who’d come back from Mexico. He told people he was going to be “true to
the root.”

Understand that we had to go into our protest at CBS national
headquarters (the Black Rock)  blind. We knew there would be some kind
of inaccuracy involving some one driving on Ibo, but what we were
really upset about was that CBS, instead of treating this as a serious
documentary subject a la Ben DeLoenen, was exploiting ibogaine and
pandering to the drug war stereotype of Burnell as just another pusher,
and ibogaine just another drug. Were I able to do it over, well, in the
office here we have a picture of Bozo the Clown with a red ‘banned’
crossed circle super-imposed, and the words “No Clowning Around With
Ibogaine!”

I don’t think it’s respectful to compare Bwiti religious ceremony with
clowns and mimes, even if the Fang do use face paint.

All that being said, the episode has aired four times here, and
millions have at least heard about ibogaine as a result. That’s why I
pestered the Kerry campaign with it–in addition to other, much more
scientific stuff. To let them know that Ibo is now a mass phenomena
that can’t just be ignored.

Still think it’s a good idea to send Theresa Heinz the new video, too.

Dana/cnw

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 25, 2005 at 7:30:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee Albert wrote:
I happened to see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain where part of the plot included a treatment house for addiction using iboga plus a murder where somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has two plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.

I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went something like:

1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider), is cruising around in his car hallucinating on iboga and picks up this girl – Mindy. I think he gives her iboga too. He is later found dead.

Your one-time viewing seems to have you collapsing the story-lines of two different characters here. Ed is looking for Mindy, who’s relapsed alright–but he himself isn’t on ibogaine. He has some for Mindy (never mind that any one doing what he’s doing wouldn’t have had their ibogaine along for the ride–what’s he going to do, find her and administer it on the spot?–or that when Stahl was writing this, the predominant paradigm was people from his 12 step groups coming back from treatments at Rosarita, so any actual ibogaine was never in the US at all!).

You’re confusing Ed with Jamal the thief, who (it’s implied) finds the ibogaine after Ed’s killed and gets into a car accident after injecting it and starting to trip while driving. Injecting multiplies the impact of ibo on the system something like 50 times, so that aspect would hold up–except that the substance pictured is supposed to be Indra, which can’t be injected. But the ibogaine physically  has to be in the car for the CSI folk to find it, or the somewhat valid premise that iboga would be a mystery substance to most police departments doesn’t have a chance to unfold. The clear clue that Jamal is supposed to have lost his coordination on iboga is when Brass says “What drug is he on?” and the hipper Black cop replies “Whatever it is, either he took too much or not enough.”

2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one addiction for another,” referring to the taking of iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

It’s supposed to sound like the mission ex-addicts are on to get other addicts off drugs is the equivalent taking iboga, but the context–Ed bringing iboga down from  the Mountain and pushing it on everyone–makes it clear the actual critique is that  “getting religious about it” and prosyletizing ibogaine is just another replacement for chemical addiction.

3. A female drug addict (Mindy) in custody (the one who was with Ed in the car) says something about the spirits telling her something. She was questioned as to her motive for doing something and that was her reply.

No, she is threatened with murder charges and says the spirits (Bwiti) will protect her. It’s meant to show that the ideational  impact of an initiation or treatment persists for months, even after a person relapses and starts using smack again. (And isn’t the stuff in Vegas mainly black tar, not white powder? Inconsistencies abound.)

Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t really understand it properly.

Hope this helps.

Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I understand its the current episode.

Some extracts from plot:

http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top

– Underneath a highway overpass, people gather, doing drugs. Some are hooking, and a car glides by. The driver keeps going, asking questions, until he finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next thing you know, he’s dead on the ground, the CSI looking over his body. Watch, wallet and shoes are all gone and there’s blood on him.
– Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car floor. Greg gets it and runs tests on the substance. He doesn’t know what it is. Grissom checks the microscope. It’s something new.
– They’ve identified the strange substance, which is, in layman’s term, a substance that can cure physical addiction. Its intended use is as a hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from the Iboga tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not legal in the U.S. Brass says Burnell was a dealer, no matter how you look at it.

“Intended use” is all relative. In North America it’s intended use to interrupt drug addiction–and that the hallucinogenesis is a side effect. It’s from the bark of the root, not the tree as it says in the dialog. And they never point  out that it’s legal in Canada and Mexico, and that in real life, you don’t have to travel long by car to get to Rosarita. But that would undermine the premise of Ed even being under the freeway looking for Mindy–with the ibogaine on him.

– At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake Sinclair, the guy who runs it. They don’t give out illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy, is leaving, as the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her clean. They’re shown a video of what she looked like two months ago. A real mess. When Ed first arrived, he was an asset, but they he got ‘religious’ about it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect, became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.

Harm reduction and abstinence-based therapy are conveniently  mixed up here, but Jake seems to be saying that if some one has been dosed with Ibogaine he’ll let the trip run its course, even though the standard reaction would probably be to treat it like acid and send out for thorazine. Jake actually gives a pretty good understanding of what ibo does and it limitations. But Stahl is hallucinating what he think a provider would be like. Where is the intake protocol? I know of no one who’s willing to give ibo now without at least a EKG, not to mention EEG and liver panel. What kind of a pusher sends out for medical tests?

– Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that has certainly seen better days. It’s a crackhouse and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A man answers. Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass just enter and find Mindy on the floor, hardly cleaned up anymore. She’s back to drugs, despite Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which made her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near her. “Did you come here to remember, or to forget?” he asks.

The person who wrote this actually screwed up, in that the ibo DIDN’T make her high. She’s high all right, but her response–“Ed gave me ibogaine”–is intended to divert the two cops from the fact that she’s obviously just done the massive dose of smack Riley gave her after they fucked. Grissom rejoins “…and then you didn’t want to get high any more.” And her cry is meant to convey that she went back to smack because she missed it, when all was said and done: “I never wanted to feel.”

– Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and sounds horrible. Brass points out she’s up for a murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also shows she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell was looking for her, as he knew she was using. Brass arrests her.
– Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged underwear. Sad. No sign of blood, however. But, Greg comes in with a skin sample that doesn’t belong to Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent in sex.
– The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and Renaldo is already having sex with another junkie. However, they police realize that if Ed cleaned up addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He gave her drugs, and then he went out and murdered Burnell. DNA evidence proves his guilt.As the female junkie sags down the hall, Grissom doesn’t see the need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,” he says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created prison.

Not so much bad for his business, as bad for his sex life. It’s also kind of implied that Burnell may have strayed from ethical practice in becoming involved with Mindy himself, so there’s a jealousy undercurrent.

Comment:

I am curious as to what this episode is trying to say about iboga?

That it’s extremely emotionally conflicting for police to crack down on a Schedule I drug (non-maintenance) that stops drug addiction and is not used at raves.

Anyone seen it in English and understood it properly?

I can send you a duplicate, but its NTSC VHS, not-playable in Europe unless you have U.S. equipment.

Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I. reports?

Lee
They draw on current cases. The Indra part comes from LAPD finding a body of an opiate OD together with both Indra and opiates, for instance. And as I said, Stahl got the idea from people he met at group who’d come back from Mexico. He told people he was going to be “true to the root.”

Understand that we had to go into our protest at CBS national headquarters (the Black Rock)  blind. We knew there would be some kind of inaccuracy involving some one driving on Ibo, but what we were really upset about was that CBS, instead of treating this as a serious documentary subject a la Ben DeLoenen, was exploiting ibogaine and pandering to the drug war stereotype of Burnell as just another pusher, and ibogaine just another drug. Were I able to do it over, well, in the office here we have a picture of Bozo the Clown with a red ‘banned’ crossed circle super-imposed, and the words “No Clowning Around With Ibogaine!”

I don’t think it’s respectful to compare Bwiti religious ceremony with clowns and mimes, even if the Fang do use face paint.

All that being said, the episode has aired four times here, and millions have at least heard about ibogaine as a result. That’s why I pestered the Kerry campaign with it–in addition to other, much more scientific stuff. To let them know that Ibo is now a mass phenomena that can’t just be ignored.

Still think it’s a good idea to send Theresa Heinz the new video, too.

Dana/cnw

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 25, 2005 at 4:01:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There were at least 200 messages here back and forth
about this before, during and after it aired. The
director whose story it is based on, goes to the same
12 step group with jerry stahl who wrote it, Dana Beal
protested it, then reposted all of it into the John
Kerry presidential site.

Carla B

— Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com> wrote:

Love the part about “cruising around in his car.”  I
know on iboga, I couldn’t WALK, much less drive!
Jane

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:I happened to
see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain
where part of the plot included a treatment house
for addiction using iboga plus a murder where
somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has two
plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.

I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went
something like:

1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider),
is cruising around in his car hallucinating on iboga
and picks up this girl – Mindy. I think he gives her
iboga too. He is later found dead.

2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one
addiction for another,” referring to the taking of
iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

3. A female drug addict (Mindy) in custody (the one
who was with Ed in the car) says something about the
spirits telling her something. She was questioned as
to her motive for doing something and that was her
reply.

Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t
really understand it properly.

Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I
understand its the current episode.

Some extracts from plot:

http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top

– Underneath a highway overpass, people gather,
doing drugs. Some are hooking, and a car glides by.
The driver keeps going, asking questions, until he
finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and
drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next
thing you know, he’s dead on the ground, the CSI
looking over his body. Watch, wallet and shoes are
all gone and there’s blood on him.

– Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car
floor. Greg gets it and runs tests on the substance.
He doesn’t know what it is. Grissom checks the
microscope. It’s something new.

– They’ve identified the strange substance, which
is, in layman’s term, a substance that can cure
physical addiction. Its intended use is as a
hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from
the Iboga tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not
legal in the U.S. Brass says Burnell was a dealer,
no matter how you look at it.

– At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake
Sinclair, the guy who runs it. They don’t give out
illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy, is leaving, as
the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her
clean. They’re shown a video of what she looked like
two months ago. A real mess. When Ed first arrived,
he was an asset, but they he got ‘religious’ about
it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect,
became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.

– Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that
has certainly seen better days. It’s a crackhouse
and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A man answers.
Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the
floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass
just enter and find Mindy on the floor, hardly
cleaned up anymore. She’s back to drugs, despite
Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which
made her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near
her. “Did you come here to remember, or to forget?”
he asks.

– Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and
sounds horrible. Brass points out she’s up for a
murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also shows
she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell
was looking for her, as he knew she was using. Brass
arrests her.

– Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged
underwear. Sad. No sign of blood, however. But, Greg
comes in with a skin sample that doesn’t belong to
Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the
door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent
in sex.

– The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and
Renaldo is already having sex with another junkie.
However, they police realize that if Ed cleaned up
addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He
gave her drugs, and then he went out and murdered
Burnell. DNA evidence proves his guilt.As the female
junkie sags down the hall, Grissom doesn’t see the
need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,”
he says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created
prison.

Comment:

I am curious as to what this episode is trying to
say about iboga?

Anyone seen it in English and understood it
properly?

Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I.
reports?

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of
eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes
section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance
and spiritual interpretation of the eboga
experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 25, 2005 at 1:11:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Love the part about “cruising around in his car.”  I know on iboga, I couldn’t WALK, much less drive!  Jane

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I happened to see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain where part of the plot included a treatment house for addiction using iboga plus a murder where somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has two plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.

I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went something like:

1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider), is cruising around in his car hallucinating on iboga and picks up this girl – Mindy. I think he gives her iboga too. He is later found dead.

2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one addiction for another,” referring to the taking of iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

3. A female drug addict (Mindy) in custody (the one who was with Ed in the car) says something about the spirits telling her something. She was questioned as to her motive for doing something and that was her reply.

Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t really understand it properly.

Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I understand its the current episode.

Some extracts from plot:

http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top

– Underneath a highway overpass, people gather, doing drugs. Some are hooking, and a car glides by. The driver keeps going, asking questions, until he finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next thing you know, he’s dead on the ground, the CSI looking over his body. Watch, wallet and shoes are all gone and there’s blood on him.
– Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car floor. Greg gets it and runs tests on the substance. He doesn’t know what it is. Grissom checks the microscope. It’s something new.
– They’ve identified the strange substance, which is, in layman’s term, a substance that can cure physical addiction. Its intended use is as a hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from the Iboga tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not legal in the U.S. Brass says Burnell was a dealer, no matter how you look at it.
– At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake Sinclair, the guy who runs it. They don’t give out illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy, is leaving, as the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her clean. They’re shown a video of what she looked like two months ago. A real mess. When Ed first arrived, he was an asset, but they he got ‘religious’ about it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect, became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.
– Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that has certainly seen better days. It’s a crackhouse and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A man answers. Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass just enter and find Mindy on the floor, hardly cleaned up anymore. She’s back to drugs, despite Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which made her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near her. “Did you come here to remember, or to forget?” he asks.

– Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and sounds horrible. Brass points out she’s up for a murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also shows she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell was looking for her, as he knew she was using. Brass arrests her.
– Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged underwear. Sad. No sign of blood, however. But, Greg comes in with a skin sample that doesn’t belong to Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent in sex.
– The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and Renaldo is already having sex with another junkie. However, they police realize that if Ed cleaned up addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He gave her drugs, and then he went out and murdered Burnell. DNA evidence proves his guilt.As the female junkie sags down the hall, Grissom doesn’t see the need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,” he says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created prison.

Comment:

I am curious as to what this episode is trying to say about iboga?

Anyone seen it in English and understood it properly?

Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I. reports?

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] what the fuck.
Date: May 24, 2005 at 8:38:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So. My mom is at war with the neighbors and they are in the process of
calling the cops on said neighbors for driving a four wheeler up and
down the road.  I give up entirely on th eprocess of trying to get
along with them on  all of this.  I don’t need this shit keeping me up
and away from what my main focus is.  I can’t stadn triviality,
especially at this level. Like there aren’t major things happening in
the world other than this.  I give.  I need a gun.  I don’t know.
I need OUT!!!!!!!
help…
there aren’t enough pills to calm me throuhg the tumult of bullshit
that goes on here, anad here  is where I have to stay if I want to
stay clean.  Cleeeeeeeeeeeeeean.  This has to be my focus.  I don’t
know. What the fuck.   There talkng baout calling the staties.  i have
warrants.  This is SO not good.
tink

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] emails mk ppl stupid coz they R worse than smking pot
Date: May 24, 2005 at 10:12:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

-“THE regular use of text messages and e-mails can lower the IQ more than twice as much as smoking marijuana.”-snip

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20409-1580833,00.html

i guess i´ll be offline for the rest of the day…maybe i should get some weed…

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 24, 2005 at 6:13:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this episode was written by jerry stahl, junky celebrity, who wrote “permanent midnight”. it´s his autobiography that deals mainly with his heavy heroin habit. it´s written very well and has a twisted humor. it was filmed starring ben stiller. grab the movie and some popcorn.
he also wrote for the “Alf” “Moonlighting” and “Thirtysomething”  in the 80ties and recently part of “bad boys II”.

i don´t think the episode is based on true FBI reports and i don´t think stahl nows much about ibogaine. haven´t seen it though, but heard about it a while ago.

-ekkkki

Am 24.05.2005 um 11:42 schrieb Lee Albert:

I happened to see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain where part of the plot included a treatment house for addiction using iboga plus a murder where somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has two plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.

I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went something like:

1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider), is cruising around in his car hallucinating on iboga and picks up this girl – Mindy. I think he gives her iboga too. He is later found dead.

2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one addiction for another,” referring to the taking of iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

3. A female drug addict (Mindy) in custody (the one who was with Ed in the car) says something about the spirits telling her something. She was questioned as to her motive for doing something and that was her reply.

Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t really understand it properly.

Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I understand its the current episode.

Some extracts from plot:

http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top

– Underneath a highway overpass, people gather, doing drugs. Some are hooking, and a car glides by. The driver keeps going, asking questions, until he finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next thing you know, he’s dead on the ground, the CSI looking over his body. Watch, wallet and shoes are all gone and there’s blood on him.
– Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car floor. Greg gets it and runs tests on the substance. He doesn’t know what it is. Grissom checks the microscope. It’s something new.
– They’ve identified the strange substance, which is, in layman’s term, a substance that can cure physical addiction. Its intended use is as a hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from the Iboga tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not legal in the U.S. Brass says Burnell was a dealer, no matter how you look at it.
– At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake Sinclair, the guy who runs it. They don’t give out illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy, is leaving, as the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her clean. They’re shown a video of what she looked like two months ago. A real mess. When Ed first arrived, he was an asset, but they he got ‘religious’ about it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect, became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.
– Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that has certainly seen better days. It’s a crackhouse and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A man answers. Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass just enter and find Mindy on the floor, hardly cleaned up anymore. She’s back to drugs, despite Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which made her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near her. “Did you come here to remember, or to forget?” he asks.

– Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and sounds horrible. Brass points out she’s up for a murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also shows she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell was looking for her, as he knew she was using. Brass arrests her.
– Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged underwear. Sad. No sign of blood, however. But, Greg comes in with a skin sample that doesn’t belong to Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent in sex.
– The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and Renaldo is already having sex with another junkie. However, they police realize that if Ed cleaned up addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He gave her drugs, and then he went out and murdered Burnell. DNA evidence proves his guilt.As the female junkie sags down the hall, Grissom doesn’t see the need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,” he says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created prison.

Comment:

I am curious as to what this episode is trying to say about iboga?

Anyone seen it in English and understood it properly?

Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I. reports?

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Bwiti Practices
Date: May 24, 2005 at 5:46:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Arlo,

Just curious. Is this based on personal observation or from reports you have seen?

Lee

orangesun Barrel <kaliorangemist710@hotmail.com> wrote:
concerning the deaths in africa due to iboga ingestion many Fang believe it
to be the result of evil gypsies or people possessed by spirits. usually the
elders decide if the initiate is able to take eboga the night before with
the otunga tree practice, in which they rip out a certain tree from the
earth and if it uproots with ease then the ancestors are in favor of the
ebin’s (initiate) partarking in the engosie. They also (sometimes) eat small
amounts of eboga themselves the night before to consult the ancestors for
assurance. The Mitsogho consider the Fang to be far less scrupulous overall
with the taking precautionary measures concerning the aptitude of the
initiate.
Arlo-Oorrannge B.
>From:
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
>Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:22:35 -0700
>
>People do die in Africa. It is viewed as due to a flaw in the
>person, perhaps due to an unconfessed sin. Fang Bwiti are said take
>higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
>the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
>gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer deaths.
>
>The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
>Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.
>
>On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:02:49 -0700 Preston Peet
>wrote:
> >>I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the
>
> >benefit
> >>of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that
> >have l! ost
> >>loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts<
> >
> >RAther rushed and busy this end of the internet, but Shelly, I
> >just wanted
> >to write and say “thank you” for posting this comment.
> >I wrote some more, haughty and slightly angry stuff here but
> >deleted it, it
> >isn’t important. The important part is that you hit the nail on
> >the head-
> >yes, there may very well be some risks with ibogaine, but if the
> >natives can
> >take it without doctors and heartmonitors why can’t we? I’m
> >curious as to
> >whether the natives in Gabon ever have any deaths?
> >Peace and love,
> >Preston Peet
> >
> >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>
> >often
> >mistaken for madness”
> >Richard Davenport-Hines
> >
> >ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> >Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
> >Civilizations,
> >Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> >Cont. High Times mag/.com
> >Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >Columnist New York Waste
> >Etc.
> >
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: shelley krupa
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
> >
> >
> >Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I
> >detoxed
> >twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that
> >time ,the MD
> >said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I
> >remember
> >being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in
> >mexico,I figure
> >the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the
> >ones I
> >work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get
> >free
> >anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never
> >experienced
> >before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical
> >kinda
> >setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to
> >inquire about
> >another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from
> >ibogaine , &
> >that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last
> >detox I did
> >was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3
> >times
> >before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best
> >results
> >ever psychologically &am! p; spiritually, (3 months clean this
> >time &
> >counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very
> >mild
> >,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw
> >up at my
> >hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole
> >ends up
> >carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances
> >to
> >consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the
> >quintessential risk
> >taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug
> >just able to
> >cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV
> >insanity, so I’d
> >risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of
>
> >doing
> >ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have
> >easily done
> >that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly
> >elevated even,
> >with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those
> >african folks
> >do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely
>
> >no
> >disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help
> >others, just my
> >thoughts ,love shell
> >
> >Morning Wood wrote:
> >
> >I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
> >you find the time.
> >
> >be well mr semi colon,
> >j
> >
> >— Marko wrote:
> >> Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
> >> He took IBO in the
> >> evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
> >> to have a harder impact
> >> when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
> >> enough!) and he constantly
> >> felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
> >> of enormous blood
> >> pressure.
> >>
> >> He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
> >> night), and his pulse and
> >> blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
> >> heighten, but within normal.
> >> During these measurements he felt as before, and
> >> complained to the doctor
> >> all the time. When the doctor told him that his
> >> pulse and ! blood pressure
> >> are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
> >> normal. All the pressure
> >> was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
> >> physical plane – at
> >> all!!)
> >>
> >> He was taken back home, and had some divine
> >> experience afterwards ;-))
> >>
> >> This case was obviously a psychological one.
> >>
> >> I know from experience that very high pulse is
> >> possible; but its duration
> >> isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
> >> waves.
> >>
> >> Marko
> >>
> >> On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
> >> Standard Time,
> >> > my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> >> > Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
> >> medical
> >> > supervision to counteract the potential side
> >> effects
> >> > of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
> >> pulse
> >> > (amo! ng other things). This is rather easy to do
> >> with
> >> > drugs such as Inderal and the like
> >> > Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
> >> pressure or pulse for that matter
> >> > went up much at all. My mother could tell you
> >> better than me. She’s a nurse
> >> > practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
> >> took my blood pressure once
> >> > and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
> >> wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> >> > think this just goes to show that no two
> >> treatments will ever be alike with
> >> > something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
> >> provider checked on me, he
> >> > could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
> >> This thing bothers me a lot.
> >> > I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
> >> and taken the treatment.
> >> > I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
> >> give me some time and
> >&g! t; > consideration after I cornered them at the
> >> conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> >> > was never put off by the way, everyone was very
> >> nice and treated me with
> >> > respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
> >> these people it was that they all
> >> > cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
> >> everyone pointing fingers at
> >> > someone who they know deep down was devastated by
> >> the death occurring during
> >> > the treatment? It happens in the states, it
> >> happens in Europe, and it happens in
> >> > Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
> >> calculated risk. So is
> >> > driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
> >> scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> >> > I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
> >> down home, but there is so
> >> > much more to learn about it that I have come to
> >> the realization that! it is
> >> > going to take an enormous amount of money, and
> >> research, to ever completely
> >> > figure it out. Back to square one again.
> >> Randy
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >/]=—————————————————————-
>
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> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >>
> >]=—————————————————————–
>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >
> >
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>
>
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>
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] C.S.I. T.V. Drama & iboga – Episode #416 – GETTING OFF (Feb 26 2004)
Date: May 24, 2005 at 5:42:20 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I happened to see on TV last night a CSI episode here is Spain where part of the plot included a treatment house for addiction using iboga plus a murder where somehow iboga was involved. C.S.I. normally has two plots and is based on F.B.I. reports of true crimes.

I didn’t understand it all but the parts I did went something like:

1. A drug user Ed (former addict turned provider), is cruising around in his car hallucinating on iboga and picks up this girl – Mindy. I think he gives her iboga too. He is later found dead.

2. The investigator reflects and says: “swopping one addiction for another,” referring to the taking of iboga. Perhaps referring to Ed?

3. A female drug addict (Mindy) in custody (the one who was with Ed in the car) says something about the spirits telling her something. She was questioned as to her motive for doing something and that was her reply.

Anyway I only happened to see part of it and didn’t really understand it properly.

Maybe someone else has seen this episode. I understand its the current episode.

Some extracts from plot:

http://members.aol.com/NATPE1/csi-season4a.htm#top

– Underneath a highway overpass, people gather, doing drugs. Some are hooking, and a car glides by. The driver keeps going, asking questions, until he finds what he wants. He’s young, good-looking and drives a BMW. He gets out and starts walking.. Next thing you know, he’s dead on the ground, the CSI looking over his body. Watch, wallet and shoes are all gone and there’s blood on him.
– Warrick finds a small bag of something on the car floor. Greg gets it and runs tests on the substance. He doesn’t know what it is. Grissom checks the microscope. It’s something new.
– They’ve identified the strange substance, which is, in layman’s term, a substance that can cure physical addiction. Its intended use is as a hallucingen used by a tribe in South Africa, from the Iboga tree and is called Ibogaine. It’s not legal in the U.S. Brass says Burnell was a dealer, no matter how you look at it.
– At a halfway house, Grissom and Brass talk to Jake Sinclair, the guy who runs it. They don’t give out illegal drugs. A young woman, Mindy, is leaving, as the place reminds her too much of Ed. Ed got her clean. They’re shown a video of what she looked like two months ago. A real mess. When Ed first arrived, he was an asset, but they he got ‘religious’ about it. He brought the Ibogaine with him and in effect, became a pusher of sorts, peddling his cure.
– Brass and Grissom arrive at a rundown house that has certainly seen better days. It’s a crackhouse and they’re looking for Mindy Dupont. A man answers. Grissom looks inside, spotting drug material on the floor. Since “it’s a free county,” both he and Brass just enter and find Mindy on the floor, hardly cleaned up anymore. She’s back to drugs, despite Ed’s best efforts. He gave her the ibagain, which made her high. Grissom spots a bloody knife near her. “Did you come here to remember, or to forget?” he asks.

– Mindy has been brought in, but she looks and sounds horrible. Brass points out she’s up for a murder rap. Grissom points out evidence also shows she’s been high for a while, and think that Burnell was looking for her, as he knew she was using. Brass arrests her.
– Warrick and Nick are going over Mindy’s ragged underwear. Sad. No sign of blood, however. But, Greg comes in with a skin sample that doesn’t belong to Belongs to Riley Renaldo, the man who answered the door. He was the landlord, who let her pay her rent in sex.
– The police arrive at the wreck of a house, and Renaldo is already having sex with another junkie. However, they police realize that if Ed cleaned up addicts, it would be bad for Renaldo’s business. He gave her drugs, and then he went out and murdered Burnell. DNA evidence proves his guilt.As the female junkie sags down the hall, Grissom doesn’t see the need to take her to lockup. “She’s already there,” he says, grimly, of the woman’s own self-created prison.

Comment:

I am curious as to what this episode is trying to say about iboga?

Anyone seen it in English and understood it properly?

Apparently these episodes are based on true F.B.I. reports?

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “orangesun Barrel” <kaliorangemist710@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 23, 2005 at 6:50:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

concerning the deaths in africa due to iboga ingestion many Fang believe it to be the result of evil gypsies or people possessed by spirits. usually the elders decide if the initiate is able to take eboga the night before with the otunga tree practice, in which they rip out a certain tree from the earth and if it uproots with ease then the ancestors are in favor of the ebin’s (initiate) partarking in the engosie. They also (sometimes) eat small amounts of eboga themselves the night before to consult the ancestors for assurance. The Mitsogho consider the Fang to be far less scrupulous overall with the taking precautionary measures concerning the aptitude of the initiate.
Arlo-Oorrannge B.
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:22:35 -0700

People do die in Africa. It is viewed as due to a flaw in the
person, perhaps due to an unconfessed sin. Fang Bwiti are said take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer deaths.

The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:02:49 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
>>I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the

>benefit
>>of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that
>have l! ost
>>loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts<
>
>RAther rushed and busy this end of the internet, but Shelly, I
>just wanted
>to write and say “thank you” for posting this comment.
>I wrote some more, haughty and slightly angry stuff here but
>deleted it, it
>isn’t important. The important part is that you hit the nail on
>the head-
>yes, there may very well be some risks with ibogaine, but if the
>natives can
>take it without doctors and heartmonitors why can’t we? I’m
>curious as to
>whether the natives in Gabon ever have any deaths?
>Peace and love,
>Preston Peet
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

>often
>mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations,
>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: shelley krupa
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
>
>
>Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I
>detoxed
>twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that
>time ,the MD
>said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I
>remember
>being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in
>mexico,I figure
>the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the
>ones I
>work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get
>free
>anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never
>experienced
>before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical
>kinda
>setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to
>inquire about
>another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from
>ibogaine , &
>that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last
>detox I did
>was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3
>times
>before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best
>results
>ever psychologically &am! p; spiritually, (3 months clean this
>time &
>counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very
>mild
>,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw
>up at my
>hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole
>ends up
>carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances
>to
>consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the
>quintessential risk
>taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug
>just able to
>cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV
>insanity, so I’d
>risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of

>doing
>ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have
>easily done
>that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly
>elevated even,
>with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those
>african folks
>do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely

>no
>disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help
>others, just my
>thoughts ,love shell
>
>Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
>you find the time.
>
>be well mr semi colon,
>j
>
>— Marko wrote:
>> Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
>> He took IBO in the
>> evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
>> to have a harder impact
>> when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
>> enough!) and he constantly
>> felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
>> of enormous blood
>> pressure.
>>
>> He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
>> night), and his pulse and
>> blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
>> heighten, but within normal.
>> During these measurements he felt as before, and
>> complained to the doctor
>> all the time. When the doctor told him that his
>> pulse and ! blood pressure
>> are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
>> normal. All the pressure
>> was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
>> physical plane – at
>> all!!)
>>
>> He was taken back home, and had some divine
>> experience afterwards ;-))
>>
>> This case was obviously a psychological one.
>>
>> I know from experience that very high pulse is
>> possible; but its duration
>> isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
>> waves.
>>
>> Marko
>>
>> On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
>> Standard Time,
>> > my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
>> > Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
>> medical
>> > supervision to counteract the potential side
>> effects
>> > of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
>> pulse
>> > (amo! ng other things). This is rather easy to do
>> with
>> > drugs such as Inderal and the like
>> > Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
>> pressure or pulse for that matter
>> > went up much at all. My mother could tell you
>> better than me. She’s a nurse
>> > practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
>> took my blood pressure once
>> > and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
>> wasn’t ever much of a change. I
>> > think this just goes to show that no two
>> treatments will ever be alike with
>> > something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
>> provider checked on me, he
>> > could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
>> This thing bothers me a lot.
>> > I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
>> and taken the treatment.
>> > I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
>> give me some time and
>&g! t; > consideration after I cornered them at the
>> conference, or wherever I could find them. I
>> > was never put off by the way, everyone was very
>> nice and treated me with
>> > respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
>> these people it was that they all
>> > cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
>> everyone pointing fingers at
>> > someone who they know deep down was devastated by
>> the death occurring during
>> > the treatment? It happens in the states, it
>> happens in Europe, and it happens in
>> > Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
>> calculated risk. So is
>> > driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
>> scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
>> > I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
>> down home, but there is so
>> > much more to learn about it that I have come to
>> the realization that! it is
>> > going to take an enormous amount of money, and
>> research, to ever completely
>> > figure it out. Back to square one again.
>> Randy
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
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>Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
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From: “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] LunArt Productions Newsletter May 2005
Date: May 23, 2005 at 6:28:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LunArt Productions Newsletter May 2005

What’s new?

1 Website is launched

2 DVD’s ‘IBOGAINE-Rite of passage’ for sale

3 Future screenings ‘IBOGAINE-Rite of Passage’

4 New Project ‘Between Body&Soul. Call for funds.

____________________________________________________________________________

1. Finally, after being under construction for a while, the new site of
Lunart Productions is launched (www.lunartproductions.com). From now on
you can also access the Ibogaine pages by going to www.ibogainefilm.com.

2. DVD’s of ‘IBOGAINE-Rite of Passage’ are for sale in the onlineshop of
the website. For the US DVD’s are 16,99 and for Europe 19,99 euros.
Sending costs are 3 euros. The paypal shopping cart is on and fully
functional.

3. On Saturday May 28, the Belgian première of ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of
Passage’ takes place at the Filmmuseum in Antwerp (Waalsekaai 4, 2000
Antwerpen). The screening starts at 16.00h. Afterwards there is a small
reception. If you want to attend at this event, send a mail to
info@lunartproductions.com with your name(s). This is a free event.

From May 21-23, ‘Entheogenesis’ takes place in Vancouver.
IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage will be screened at this event..

4. LunArt Productions is producing a new documentary project, ‘Between
Body & Soul’,It is a film about the influence of faith on the healing
process of people with HIV. The film will follow 4 inhabitants of Sao
Paulo, Brazil, who are HIV positive and part of the Pentacostal Church.
For them their faith is the only thing they have to hold on to. We still
need financial support for the realization of this project. Visit the
website for all the details about the project. Donations for this
project are more than welcome.

For more info visit www.lunartproductions.com or email to
info@lunartproductions.com

If you don’t want to receive any mails from LunArt Productions in the
future,
send an email to unsubscribe@lunartproductions.com.

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I let it go and it finally came back
Date: May 23, 2005 at 4:33:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have nothing but love for all of you on this list for putting up
with my morbid ramblings.  It’s amazing how quickly one can do a
complete turn around when you think that there’s nothing else to be
done.  I guess the lesson today, folks, is that simple one I can never
seem to see, much like the forest and those proverbial trees.
I let it go.  Completely.  It came back.  There is love and hope after
all.  There always was, it just hides sometimes, when it seems I need
it most.  I don’t understand exactly how it all works, but I suppose
it has something to do with the releasing of control over my own
destiny and the things that’ll either happen or won’t.  Not to sound
like a 12 stepper, but admitting I was powerless did me a world of
good today.  I don’t think I’ll ever get past that “defects of
character” thing, though.  Too many are intrinsic to my nature at this
point. It’s a matter of using my powers for good, instead of evil,
now. :]
The force remains strong in me and in us all, whether we realise it or
not, and internal infighting will get none of us anywhere, except back
to the same brick wall upon which to smash our heads, over and over
again.
Well.  Enough of me.
Love to all, and many thanks for all of evrything you all do to keep
us all going.
tink

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From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] rainy days and mondays still getting me down
Date: May 23, 2005 at 3:33:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow great post !
HangTuff lil Tink!
Freak Freely! and Forever…
Jeff

On 5/23/05, tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com> wrote:
I am having an extremely difficult time concentrating on anything for
longer than about five minutes today, and it’s beginning to drive me
more insane than usual.  The distractions that are almost always there
seem far more amplified, and the lack of faith in those around me
seems to be growing at an alarming rate, as the last two weeks merge
into one solid block of depression and anger, of hurt and fear.  I am
having a very difficult time keeping myself grounded in the moment,
and my inability to fix myself, and those I love and care about on
every level, is almost overwhelming today, and I have no idea how to
slip out of this funk.
My adviser at school challenged me to write a rhyming sonnet in iambic
pentameter about the forest and /or Walmart, and everything is coming
out contrived.  It all seems so, well, forced.  Forced jocularity,
forced work, forced best face forward.  This is not the Force I wanted
to reside within me.
I suppose I still have dreams of capturing that childish, delightful
spark that once lived within me, and  the aggravation of failure, and
the pain of loss has stifled my best attempts at resurrection.  So
far.  This month.  I have such a fire within, and I feel the heat of
inspiration moving through me, but it is not  a consistent heat, and
the ability to internalize has made me a semi lethal bomb, waiting for
detonation.  My failure as a friend, as a daughter, as a wife, as a
mother, has been weighing heavily on me as of late.  Even though I can
see in vivid technicolour the advances I’ve made, and in such a short
amount of time, it almost feels as though it’s too little, too late.
I know that the mechanisms of my mind are being deeply effected by the
detoxing off of this shit, this subutex; this, this, nicer way of
saying you’re fucked because you’re still dependent upon another
substance.  I know that I have no control over the actions of others,
and barely over my own.  I know this; I KNOW THIS, but it doesn’t seem
to penetrate this thick skull I’ve developed as of late. I can’t help
but start the would’ve-could’ve-should’ve lists. I can’t help but
think about the fact that I missed some important clue, lost some
pertinent opportunity to help, to change something, that would’ve made
a difference somewhere.  I feel like I’ve lost some battle I didn’t
even realise I was fighting.
It is a rare moment that I feel the trust necessary to allow anyone to
impact me.  It’s an even fewer and farther between event for me to
connect and want to root that some one on, and to feel like I have
become a part of something.  To have that minimalistic trust shattered
time and again makes it all the harder for me to try to crawl out of
the hole of suspicion and doubt that I dig for myself, and my fear of
losing another someone to something I know that I have absolutely no
control over becomes just that much deeper and ingrained.  I don’t
want to feel this way any more.  I don’t want to allow my actions of
the past to rule my future, and I’m sick to death of losing.
Anything.  Anyone.
It’s not that I’m a control freak, though I suspect I have definitive
tendencies, I just don’t have the heart for more disappointment.  They
say if you love something, you’re to let it go, and if it was meant to
be, it’ll come back to you in due time, in due course.  It’s the
letting go of what little hope I have left, of that dream I am
determined to have once again, that I’m having a hard time with,
perhaps.  How do you let go?  And does it ever come back?
love
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] rainy days and mondays still getting me down
Date: May 23, 2005 at 1:54:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am having an extremely difficult time concentrating on anything for
longer than about five minutes today, and it’s beginning to drive me
more insane than usual.  The distractions that are almost always there
seem far more amplified, and the lack of faith in those around me
seems to be growing at an alarming rate, as the last two weeks merge
into one solid block of depression and anger, of hurt and fear.  I am
having a very difficult time keeping myself grounded in the moment,
and my inability to fix myself, and those I love and care about on
every level, is almost overwhelming today, and I have no idea how to
slip out of this funk.
My adviser at school challenged me to write a rhyming sonnet in iambic
pentameter about the forest and /or Walmart, and everything is coming
out contrived.  It all seems so, well, forced.  Forced jocularity,
forced work, forced best face forward.  This is not the Force I wanted
to reside within me.
I suppose I still have dreams of capturing that childish, delightful
spark that once lived within me, and  the aggravation of failure, and
the pain of loss has stifled my best attempts at resurrection.  So
far.  This month.  I have such a fire within, and I feel the heat of
inspiration moving through me, but it is not  a consistent heat, and
the ability to internalize has made me a semi lethal bomb, waiting for
detonation.  My failure as a friend, as a daughter, as a wife, as a
mother, has been weighing heavily on me as of late.  Even though I can
see in vivid technicolour the advances I’ve made, and in such a short
amount of time, it almost feels as though it’s too little, too late.
I know that the mechanisms of my mind are being deeply effected by the
detoxing off of this shit, this subutex; this, this, nicer way of
saying you’re fucked because you’re still dependent upon another
substance.  I know that I have no control over the actions of others,
and barely over my own.  I know this; I KNOW THIS, but it doesn’t seem
to penetrate this thick skull I’ve developed as of late. I can’t help
but start the would’ve-could’ve-should’ve lists. I can’t help but
think about the fact that I missed some important clue, lost some
pertinent opportunity to help, to change something, that would’ve made
a difference somewhere.  I feel like I’ve lost some battle I didn’t
even realise I was fighting.
It is a rare moment that I feel the trust necessary to allow anyone to
impact me.  It’s an even fewer and farther between event for me to
connect and want to root that some one on, and to feel like I have
become a part of something.  To have that minimalistic trust shattered
time and again makes it all the harder for me to try to crawl out of
the hole of suspicion and doubt that I dig for myself, and my fear of
losing another someone to something I know that I have absolutely no
control over becomes just that much deeper and ingrained.  I don’t
want to feel this way any more.  I don’t want to allow my actions of
the past to rule my future, and I’m sick to death of losing.
Anything.  Anyone.
It’s not that I’m a control freak, though I suspect I have definitive
tendencies, I just don’t have the heart for more disappointment.  They
say if you love something, you’re to let it go, and if it was meant to
be, it’ll come back to you in due time, in due course.  It’s the
letting go of what little hope I have left, of that dream I am
determined to have once again, that I’m having a hard time with,
perhaps.  How do you let go?  And does it ever come back?
love
tink

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From: pnina.ruth@att.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] change e-mail address
Date: May 23, 2005 at 1:23:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

old e address
pnina.ruth@att.net

NEW E ADDRESS

chem.anoint@att.net

From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] then you turn yourself around
Date: May 22, 2005 at 7:46:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think Dr. Mash has found something more profitable and interesting
to patent then ibogaine, without any of the stigma of drug addiction.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/health/11600123.htm

Could a botanist have the answer to Alzheimer’s?

KV

On 5/22/05, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 5/21/05 5:37:01 PM, reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca writes:

that’s what it’s all about

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=patent+lotsof&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.cures-not-wars.org/scam2.html

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY
Date: May 22, 2005 at 6:33:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
I will try to get the name of the author……and i will try to get the full article…..peace out brother

Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sunday cheer
Date: May 22, 2005 at 3:21:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Darkness surrounds me, a cloaking of ink
Coaxing, beguiling, inviting me to sink
Within these warm pools of languid sedation
Escape emblematic, the ultimate vacation
But deep do these sinkholes of timelessness run
As I sink toward the bottom, coming undone
And fragments of self float loose through this sea
Of anger, of fear, a denial of me
A refusal to open these eyes of mine wide
To sift through the pain in which I reside
So I drift in the murk, as I float ever deeper
Silently wishing for a price that was cheaper
Than the sum of my soul, the purity of thought
And I wonder again at how easily I bought
Into lies and deceit, for escape, from my grief
And how none of it brought the slightest relief
Yet still I am sinking, still I am drowning
Not one alarm raised, not a rescue bell sounding
And I open these eyes, and see naught before me
Which could help me to surface, or bring me to glory
So I drink deeply and quickly, filling my soul
And continue the fastest slow ride down my hole

luv
tink

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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY
Date: May 22, 2005 at 2:41:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi MAT

Thats a great article, I wonder do you have any further info on who wrote it? Its nice to read something that sits next to ones own thoughts.

Much Love

Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 06:43:56 -0400

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY
Date: May 21, 2005 at 6:43:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just Say Yes: Drugs and Human Consciousness
>
> Many point out the apparent hypocrisy of society s banning certain
drugs while allowing other potent mind-altering substances – nicotine
and alcohol, for example – to be sold in every corner store.
Comparing the statistics between the devastating effects of alcohol –
lost productivity, drunken driving, broken families, and so on –
versus the minimal social effects of marijuana, why then does society
permit one and ban the other?
>
> For the capitalist system to function, the ruling class needs a
large pool of complacent, uncomplaining workers who willingly
sacrifice their own fulfillment and family life in order to serve the
system by performing repetitive, mindless tasks. The present system
could not survive in a culture of conscious individuals whose highest
priorities were relationships, meaningful work, and personal growth.
The system persists only because so many willingly work as drones in
order to achieve a baseline level of comfort and security.
>
> Alcohol is a depressant; it dulls the mind and body. It prevents
clear thought, purposeful action, and introspective searching. In
short, it is the perfect drug to offer in unlimited quantities to
workers whose minds must be dulled from thinking too clearly and
sharply about their condition and the system in which they are
trapped. The custom of heading straight from work for the bar is the
ruling class s dream routine: for rather than protesting the inhuman
nature of the work they do, workers drown the cries from their
anguished souls in the quick poison of a shot glass. The system also
subtly encourages the use of alcohol as a symbol of rebellion among
the young and disenfranchised, for what true rebellion can grow from
a sedated, comatose populace?
>
> Mushrooms, peyote, LSD, Ecstasy, ayahuasca: now these are truly
dangerous drugs! They lift the mind above the mundane everyday world
into realms of greater wisdom and awareness; they expose the lie of
separation on which the system is built; they restore a sense of life
purpose loftier than owning a home; they foster direct experience of
the unity of all life; they encourage the user to pursue spiritual
growth and loving relationships as higher goals than economic
stability; they offer glimpses of eternal life after physical death.
>
> What threats to the system! What would happen to the economic
juggernaut paving over the earth if suddenly everyone placed family,
enlightenment, and personal growth as higher priorities than making a
living? If everyone understood the unity of all life and protested
the destruction of the natural world as the necessary price
of “progress”? If everyone dropped their tribal and national
allegiances and bonded in one global family?
>
> The system allows drugs which fracture, sedate, and suppress
consciousness. It bans drugs which enhance, stimulate, and expand
consciousness. That is the sole criterion.
>
> (by Alexander as channeled by Ramón Stevens)
> ——————————————————–

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] then you turn yourself around
Date: May 22, 2005 at 9:51:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/21/05 5:37:01 PM, reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca writes:

that’s what it’s all about

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=patent+lotsof&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.cures-not-wars.org/scam2.html

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] then you turn yourself around OT
Date: May 21, 2005 at 11:05:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this isn’t going to be easy…
Refuse to Spy? Get 2 Years
by mataliandy
Wed May 18th, 2005 at 22:14:54 PDT

[Adapted from email from the Drug Policy Alliance. Emphasis mine.
This was covered in a diary last Friday, but it looks like it disappeared
before it got any attention.]

Congressman F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. has introduced a nasty bill with
(surprise) an Orwellian name: Defending America’s Most Vulnerable: Safe
Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005 (H.R. 1528).

If you remember Operation TIPS and Total Information Awarenss, you’ll be
concerned to learn of a particularly nasty aspect of this bill:

If you “witness” certain drug offenses taking place or “learn” that they
took place you would have to report the offense to law enforcement within
24 hours and provide “full assistance” in the investigation, apprehension,
and prosecution of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime
punishable by a mandatory two year prison sentence.

Diaries :: mataliandy’s diary :: :: Trackback ::

This bill would have serious consequences for our democracy, requiring you
to spy on all your neighbors, including going undercover and wearing a
wire if needed. Refusing to become a spy for the government would be
punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of at least two years.

Here are some examples of offenses you would have to report to the police
within 24 hours:

* You see someone you know pass a joint to a 20-year old college student.

* Your cousin mentions that he bought Ecstasy for some of his college
friends.

* You find out that your brother, who has kids, recently bought a
small amount of marijuana to share with his wife.

* Your substance-abusing daughter recently begged her boyfriend to
find her some drugs even though they’re both in drug treatment.

In each of these cases you face jail time if you don’t call the police
within 24 hours. It doesn’t matter if the offender is your friend or
relative. It also doesn’t matter if you need 48 hours to think about it.
You have to report the person to the government within 24 hours or go to
jail.

You also have to assist the government in every way, including wearing a
wire if needed. Refusing to cooperate would cost you at least two years in
prison (possibly up to ten). In addition to turning family member against
family member, the legislation could also put many Americans into
dangerous situations by forcing them to go undercover to gain evidence
against strangers.

This is what we’re up against in Congress and, as I told you last week,
it’s not going to be easy. Sensenbrenner, the chair of the powerful
Judiciary Committee, usually gets what he wants. Lots of people are afraid
to challenge him. But we have a duty to our children to stop our country
from turning into a police state. I’m sure you feel this duty, as well.

Act!
There is more to this bill.  It is deeply, deeply flawed. Read the full
text of HR 1528 and learn more.

The bill has made it out of subcommittee and is working its way through
committee.  Don’t let it become law.

* E-mail or call your member of Congress

* Send creative ideas to DrugPolicy.org. They need ideas for getting
people to take action to defeat this bill.

* Donate. Every dollar counts.

* Send a letter-to-the-editor to your local paper urging your member
of Congress to oppose the bill.

* Get the word out to everyone you know.

That’s what it’s all about,

be well,

s

that’s what it’s all about

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=patent+lotsof&btnG=Google+Search

“You must let go of that which you fear to
lose
the most.”
-Yoda

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] then you turn yourself around
Date: May 21, 2005 at 5:08:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

that’s what it’s all about

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=patent+lotsof&btnG=Google+Search

“You must let go of that which you fear to
lose
the most.”
-Yoda

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: Clean Water <clean_wtr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] TAR WARS
Date: May 21, 2005 at 5:04:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

TAR WARS

“You must let go of that which you fear to lose
the most.”
-Yoda

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT
Date: May 21, 2005 at 4:42:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.answers.com/mirror

Dana; could not immediately be reached for comment;

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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT career of a talking penis.
Date: May 21, 2005 at 12:29:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Michigan court says talking penis on TV is indecent
Reuters UK ^ | May 12, 2005

Posted on 05/14/2005 2:07:25 AM PDT by beaversmom

DETROIT (Reuters) – A Michigan court apparently has ended the television
career of a talking penis.

A three-judge panel of the Michigan Court of Appeals declared that the
talking penis, nicknamed Dick Smart, telling “purportedly humorous” jokes on a Grand
Rapids, Michigan, public access cable television channel constituted indecent
exposure.

The court let stand a one-day jail sentence already served by the show’s
creator, Timothy Huffman.

Wednesday’s ruling contained a transcript of the three-minute segment that
aired twice in 2000, including the voice-over lines delivered in the style of
the late comedian Rodney Dangerfield: “Hi, I’m Dick Smart. I am a comedian,
yeah, stand up, ha.”

Huffman could not immediately be reached for comment but he told the Detroit
Free Press newspaper he planned to appeal in defence of his right to freedom
of speech.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] suicide to randy from ron
Date: May 21, 2005 at 12:18:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy:
I’ve lost more former associates thru suicide than i can count on both hands in my 55 yrs. of messin’ with this crap.  permanet solution to a temporary problem.  i’ve come so close so often.  it’s a reality.  sorry for your loss. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine – Correction

Lee, I wasn’t talking about Patrick’s death, I think we know that there wasn’t any kind of cover up when it happened in almost real time on the list. I was talking about other supposed deaths, such as Mexico or wherever. Anywhere. My point was that I couldn’t believe that anyone would give out Ibogaine without regard to the risk. Not anyone I have met anyway. This is just my limited experience. I am loyal to my last breath. Maybe it’s a southern thing. One of the worse things that ever happened to me happened because I was taking up for a friend. Not even a very good friend. Just a friend. Another point I would like to make now is, all this talk just might be upsetting the family’s of those who passed away. I’d say some of them still read the list. I know I wouldn’t want to see that everyday. I care about people. Feelings and all. Also I have been smacked around orally before about this, maybe I’m gettin’ gun shy or something. I had fully intended to say that I’m sorry for being human and acting like an ass yesterday. So, I’m sorry for being human and acting like ass yesterday. Hell, I’m sorry for acting like an ass in the future too. I know I’ll do it again. But I do it now because I love everybody I come in contact with. I can’t help it. I did Ibogaine. I love you too, Lee. I know that your intentions are good. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with ya.             Randy

From: “Xavier Crepin” <crepin@onetel.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY-Rectification adress
Date: May 21, 2005 at 9:26:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Matthew,
Sorry, 1 of the website adress had an mistake. It’s not renki.com but:
www.conspiration.cc  located in Canada (French part=Quebec, so it’s in French, but a lot of videos are in English)
Any problem, contact me!
Xavier
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY

Just Say Yes: Drugs and Human Consciousness
>
> Many point out the apparent hypocrisy of society s banning certain
drugs while allowing other potent mind-altering substances – nicotine
and alcohol, for example – to be sold in every corner store.
Comparing the statistics between the devastating effects of alcohol –
lost productivity, drunken driving, broken families, and so on –
versus the minimal social effects of marijuana, why then does society
permit one and ban the other?
>
> For the capitalist system to function, the ruling class needs a
large pool of complacent, uncomplaining workers who willingly
sacrifice their own fulfillment and family life in order to serve the
system by performing repetitive, mindless tasks. The present system
could not survive in a culture of conscious individuals whose highest
priorities were relationships, meaningful work, and personal growth.
The system persists only because so many willingly work as drones in
order to achieve a baseline level of comfort and security.
>
> Alcohol is a depressant; it dulls the mind and body. It prevents
clear thought, purposeful action, and introspective searching. In
short, it is the perfect drug to offer in unlimited quantities to
workers whose minds must be dulled from thinking too clearly and
sharply about their condition and the system in which they are
trapped. The custom of heading straight from work for the bar is the
ruling class s dream routine: for rather than protesting the inhuman
nature of the work they do, workers drown the cries from their
anguished souls in the quick poison of a shot glass. The system also
subtly encourages the use of alcohol as a symbol of rebellion among
the young and disenfranchised, for what true rebellion can grow from
a sedated, comatose populace?
>
> Mushrooms, peyote, LSD, Ecstasy, ayahuasca: now these are truly
dangerous drugs! They lift the mind above the mundane everyday world
into realms of greater wisdom and awareness; they expose the lie of
separation on which the system is built; they restore a sense of life
purpose loftier than owning a home; they foster direct experience of
the unity of all life; they encourage the user to pursue spiritual
growth and loving relationships as higher goals than economic
stability; they offer glimpses of eternal life after physical death.
>
> What threats to the system! What would happen to the economic
juggernaut paving over the earth if suddenly everyone placed family,
enlightenment, and personal growth as higher priorities than making a
living? If everyone understood the unity of all life and protested
the destruction of the natural world as the necessary price
of “progress”? If everyone dropped their tribal and national
allegiances and bonded in one global family?
>
> The system allows drugs which fracture, sedate, and suppress
consciousness. It bans drugs which enhance, stimulate, and expand
consciousness. That is the sole criterion.
>
> (by Alexander as channeled by Ramón Stevens)
> ——————————————————–

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Xavier Crepin” <crepin@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY- Comments
Date: May 21, 2005 at 9:04:16 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well done Matthew, and good analysis of the drugs social aspect already noticed by authors like Aldous Huxley, Thimoty Leary, to name just a few. I give you 2 websites adresses which could interest you in others fields = Mind expansion for ex. Here they are:
www.wingmakers.com
www.nenki.com
Have a nice day, the door is just opening.
Xavier
Digital artist & music composer
www.xaviercrepin.co.uk

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY

Just Say Yes: Drugs and Human Consciousness
>
> Many point out the apparent hypocrisy of society s banning certain
drugs while allowing other potent mind-altering substances – nicotine
and alcohol, for example – to be sold in every corner store.
Comparing the statistics between the devastating effects of alcohol –
lost productivity, drunken driving, broken families, and so on –
versus the minimal social effects of marijuana, why then does society
permit one and ban the other?
>
> For the capitalist system to function, the ruling class needs a
large pool of complacent, uncomplaining workers who willingly
sacrifice their own fulfillment and family life in order to serve the
system by performing repetitive, mindless tasks. The present system
could not survive in a culture of conscious individuals whose highest
priorities were relationships, meaningful work, and personal growth.
The system persists only because so many willingly work as drones in
order to achieve a baseline level of comfort and security.
>
> Alcohol is a depressant; it dulls the mind and body. It prevents
clear thought, purposeful action, and introspective searching. In
short, it is the perfect drug to offer in unlimited quantities to
workers whose minds must be dulled from thinking too clearly and
sharply about their condition and the system in which they are
trapped. The custom of heading straight from work for the bar is the
ruling class s dream routine: for rather than protesting the inhuman
nature of the work they do, workers drown the cries from their
anguished souls in the quick poison of a shot glass. The system also
subtly encourages the use of alcohol as a symbol of rebellion among
the young and disenfranchised, for what true rebellion can grow from
a sedated, comatose populace?
>
> Mushrooms, peyote, LSD, Ecstasy, ayahuasca: now these are truly
dangerous drugs! They lift the mind above the mundane everyday world
into realms of greater wisdom and awareness; they expose the lie of
separation on which the system is built; they restore a sense of life
purpose loftier than owning a home; they foster direct experience of
the unity of all life; they encourage the user to pursue spiritual
growth and loving relationships as higher goals than economic
stability; they offer glimpses of eternal life after physical death.
>
> What threats to the system! What would happen to the economic
juggernaut paving over the earth if suddenly everyone placed family,
enlightenment, and personal growth as higher priorities than making a
living? If everyone understood the unity of all life and protested
the destruction of the natural world as the necessary price
of “progress”? If everyone dropped their tribal and national
allegiances and bonded in one global family?
>
> The system allows drugs which fracture, sedate, and suppress
consciousness. It bans drugs which enhance, stimulate, and expand
consciousness. That is the sole criterion.
>
> (by Alexander as channeled by Ramón Stevens)
> ——————————————————–

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] kudzu cuts binge drinking?
Date: May 21, 2005 at 7:43:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hallo randy, i have capsules with 300mg extrakt of kudzu beans. it says 3*2
a day but i take 3 in the morning for a few days and then 2 whenever i feel
like having a cigarette. i ordered 300 capsules a year ago for 20euro
through ebay and still have some.

kudzu is rather soft and it takes more to stop smoking. personally i like
sports and especially sauna and most important is that i know i feel better
without, so it´s not a loss or a fight against myself. what also helps
-except a big dose of ibogaine- is to ingest the tip of a knife of iboHCl in
the morning for a few days. but that may be a problem in the states.
good luck ekki

— Ursprüngliche Nachricht —
Von: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
An: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Betreff: Re: [Ibogaine] kudzu cuts binge drinking?
Datum: Sat, 21 May 2005 06:29:30 EDT

Ekki, how much kudzu do you take, and how often, for trying to help a
person
stop smoking?      Randy


5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail
+++ GMX – die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 21, 2005 at 6:57:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

Thanks for that. Most interesting. You certainly have an eye for detail. I think I speed read a bit too much sometimes.

The general statement itself:

>Before
>giving large amounts of eboga to initiates Metsogo test them out
>with small amounts first “to see if they can support the drug or if
>they have evil spirits which will use the drug as an excuse to kill
>their host.”

regardless of whether or not it was a practise among the Mitsogo, does indicate that this was an issue that someone thought about – whoever. For me that is the most interesting part of the statement. Apart from anything it has such a good feel to it in terms of level headed treatment. Its sounds like very wise advice.

I had forgotten your charts that you posted some months back. Very useful. One of the problems of course is the variability of ibogaine levels within an extract which is not a major problem under observation. That said the extract is a lot smoother experience for initial use. (Now I find HCL very smooth but not in the beginning. I also prefer it for various reasons I discussed before for psycho-spiritual use). Perhaps for addiction treatment a whole alkaloid compound would be less traumatic on the body for initial exposure to eboga thus improving safety. Also as your graphs suggest the action of the extract appears to be more spread out. The fact is the HCL for someone who has never taken it before is like a bull in a china shop and thats hard on the body.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/20/05 2:07:09 PM, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

>Howard,

>Are you saying (in case i am not getting the point properly) that the early
>work of Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence to reflect the position
>as it was then?

Hi Lee,

I am not saying that “Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence to reflect
the position as it was then” in his writing. What I am saying is that a
specific statement concerning the Fang is not responded to by a general statement
attributed to the Mitsogo. Fernandez reports this general statement without
citation specificity in his text from chapter 18 of Bwiti: An Ethnography of
the Religious Imagination in Africa. You will notice in the text that follows
below from that chapter that Fernandez after offering the statement attributed
to the Mitsogo provides a counterpoint concerning the watchfulness of the
mother and father of eboga among the Fang Bwiti. What I did not say about
Fernandez is that I consider him a great ethnographer and his book is just fantastic
and amazing in its academic standards.

>On another point I have heard through conversation that Dr Mash use to
>dislike step dosing as the build up of nor-ibogaine levels was not considered
>safe. Which leaves me to ask does step dosing require overall higher doses?
>If not what is behind this report in terms of the danger of nor ibogaine
>levels?

Dr. Mash dislikes a lot of things and if she had any data on step dosing she
ought to publish it. I will defer to a statement provided by former NIDA
director Alan Leshner. I don’t know if it is original to Leshner. I doubt it. I
think I have heard Mash quote it and I certainly have quoted it: “In god we
trust. All others present data.” And additionally, I would say, that the
Bwiti ngangas (Fang and Mitsogo) appear have little interest in noribogaine as
they all step dose in a linear fashion: one spoon after the next. Just teasing
a bit. Step dosing is also quite common among ibogaine providers outside of
Africa as well.

IBOGAINE: FORMS AND DOSE REGIMENS
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt

Thanks for some interesting discussion.

Howard

>If you have any insight I would be very interested to know.

>As far as medical doctors go you make a valid point.

>Lee

>HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
>Hi Lee,
>I don’t question the value of dose escalation. I would however be
>appreciative of accurate reports rather than broad ranging claims as to
>either the Fang or Mitsogo. What we need is a new generation of ethnologists
to walk in
>the footsteps of Fernandez, Gollnhofer, Barabe, etc. and let us know what are
>the skills and practices of various ngangas in different chapels and sects.
>And I realize I am asking a lot. Who rates the skills of medical doctors in
the
>cities in which we live?

>Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] DRUGS AND SOCIETY
Date: May 21, 2005 at 6:43:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just Say Yes: Drugs and Human Consciousness
>
> Many point out the apparent hypocrisy of society s banning certain
drugs while allowing other potent mind-altering substances – nicotine
and alcohol, for example – to be sold in every corner store.
Comparing the statistics between the devastating effects of alcohol –
lost productivity, drunken driving, broken families, and so on –
versus the minimal social effects of marijuana, why then does society
permit one and ban the other?
>
> For the capitalist system to function, the ruling class needs a
large pool of complacent, uncomplaining workers who willingly
sacrifice their own fulfillment and family life in order to serve the
system by performing repetitive, mindless tasks. The present system
could not survive in a culture of conscious individuals whose highest
priorities were relationships, meaningful work, and personal growth.
The system persists only because so many willingly work as drones in
order to achieve a baseline level of comfort and security.
>
> Alcohol is a depressant; it dulls the mind and body. It prevents
clear thought, purposeful action, and introspective searching. In
short, it is the perfect drug to offer in unlimited quantities to
workers whose minds must be dulled from thinking too clearly and
sharply about their condition and the system in which they are
trapped. The custom of heading straight from work for the bar is the
ruling class s dream routine: for rather than protesting the inhuman
nature of the work they do, workers drown the cries from their
anguished souls in the quick poison of a shot glass. The system also
subtly encourages the use of alcohol as a symbol of rebellion among
the young and disenfranchised, for what true rebellion can grow from
a sedated, comatose populace?
>
> Mushrooms, peyote, LSD, Ecstasy, ayahuasca: now these are truly
dangerous drugs! They lift the mind above the mundane everyday world
into realms of greater wisdom and awareness; they expose the lie of
separation on which the system is built; they restore a sense of life
purpose loftier than owning a home; they foster direct experience of
the unity of all life; they encourage the user to pursue spiritual
growth and loving relationships as higher goals than economic
stability; they offer glimpses of eternal life after physical death.
>
> What threats to the system! What would happen to the economic
juggernaut paving over the earth if suddenly everyone placed family,
enlightenment, and personal growth as higher priorities than making a
living? If everyone understood the unity of all life and protested
the destruction of the natural world as the necessary price
of “progress”? If everyone dropped their tribal and national
allegiances and bonded in one global family?
>
> The system allows drugs which fracture, sedate, and suppress
consciousness. It bans drugs which enhance, stimulate, and expand
consciousness. That is the sole criterion.
>
> (by Alexander as channeled by Ramón Stevens)
> ——————————————————–

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] kudzu cuts binge drinking?
Date: May 21, 2005 at 6:29:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki, how much kudzu do you take, and how often, for trying to help a person stop smoking?      Randy

From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] kudzu cuts binge drinking?
Date: May 21, 2005 at 3:31:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kudzu also works against hangovers but it´s best for stopping cigarettes, in
my experience. recently i picked up smoking again and stopped once again a
few days ago. i just swallowed a few kudzu´s this morning. -ekki


5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail
+++ GMX – die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 21, 2005 at 1:02:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard is right. I was step dosed for Methadone. My provider would step over to me and shove ’em down my throat. I couldn’t help it. Seriously I was step dosed. I’m not exactly sure how many doses I took. I think it was 4 for about, shit I don’t know how long it was. More than 24 hours, than I took a 16 mg kg flood dose. I want 20 mg when I do it for cigarettes, hopefully some time this summer.       Randy

From: “Carlton B” <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 20, 2005 at 8:33:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Slightly off-topic… I see that there is no detailed information about
Bwiti, Fang, or Mitsogo on Wikipedia… if there is anyone who can share
detailed knowledge on these subjects, you would be doing a service to add
the information to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bwiti

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 9:11 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble

In a message dated 5/20/05 2:07:09 PM, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Howard,

Are you saying (in case i am not getting the point properly)
that the early
work of Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence to reflect
the position
as it was then?

Hi Lee,

I am not saying that “Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence
to reflect
the position as it was then” in his writing.  What I am saying  is that a
specific statement concerning the Fang is not responded to by a
general statement
attributed to the Mitsogo.  Fernandez reports this general
statement without
citation specificity in his text from chapter 18 of Bwiti: An
Ethnography of
the Religious Imagination in Africa.  You will notice in the text
that follows
below from that chapter that Fernandez after offering the
statement attributed
to the Mitsogo provides a counterpoint concerning the watchfulness of the
mother and father of eboga among the Fang Bwiti.  What I did not
say about
Fernandez is that I consider him a great ethnographer and his
book is just fantastic
and amazing in its academic standards.

On another point I have heard through conversation that Dr Mash use to
dislike step dosing as the build up of nor-ibogaine levels was
not considered
safe. Which leaves me to ask does step dosing require overall
higher doses?
If not what is behind this report in terms of the danger of nor ibogaine
levels?

Dr. Mash dislikes a lot of things and if she had any data on step
dosing she
ought to publish it.  I will defer to a statement provided by former NIDA
director Alan Leshner.  I don’t know if it is original to
Leshner.  I doubt it. I
think I have heard Mash quote it and I certainly have quoted it:
“In god we
trust.  All others present data.”  And additionally, I would say,
that the
Bwiti ngangas (Fang and Mitsogo) appear have little interest in
noribogaine as
they all step dose in a linear fashion:  one spoon after the
next.  Just teasing
a bit.  Step dosing is also quite common among ibogaine providers
outside of
Africa as well.

IBOGAINE: FORMS AND DOSE REGIMENS
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt

Thanks for some interesting discussion.

Howard

If you have any insight I would be very interested to know.

As far as medical doctors go you make a valid point.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Hi Lee,
I don’t question the value of dose escalation. I would however be
appreciative of accurate reports rather than broad ranging claims as to
either the Fang or Mitsogo. What we need is a new generation of
ethnologists
to walk in
the footsteps of Fernandez, Gollnhofer, Barabe, etc. and let us
know what are
the skills and practices of various ngangas in different chapels
and sects.
And I realize I am asking a lot. Who rates the skills of medical
doctors in
the
cities in which we live?

Howard

/]=—————————————————————
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\]=———————————————————————=[
/

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Rick Strcat” <rickstrcat@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Low dosage self treatment
Date: May 20, 2005 at 8:24:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been having trouble finding answers to some questions I would
have thought would be in a FAQ somewhere, so I’ll try them here.
Any responses would be really welcome.

Suppose someone wanted to try to self-treat with ibogaine for
addiction interruption:  is there a dosage that’s safe enough
take by oneself, but strong enough to still have some benefit?
If so, how would you calculate the dosage?  This would be for a
low-level addiction (opiates, alcohol, cocaine) – no really serious
withdrawals but lots of craving.

Has anyone actually tried doing a low-dosage regime over several days
for addiction interruption?  I’d really like to hear from anyone with
experience with this, especially with self-treatment.

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 20, 2005 at 8:10:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/20/05 2:07:09 PM, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Howard,

Are you saying (in case i am not getting the point properly) that the early
work of Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence to reflect the position
as it was then?

Hi Lee,

I am not saying that “Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence to reflect
the position as it was then” in his writing.  What I am saying  is that a
specific statement concerning the Fang is not responded to by a general statement
attributed to the Mitsogo.  Fernandez reports this general statement without
citation specificity in his text from chapter 18 of Bwiti: An Ethnography of
the Religious Imagination in Africa.  You will notice in the text that follows
below from that chapter that Fernandez after offering the statement attributed
to the Mitsogo provides a counterpoint concerning the watchfulness of the
mother and father of eboga among the Fang Bwiti.  What I did not say about
Fernandez is that I consider him a great ethnographer and his book is just fantastic
and amazing in its academic standards.

On another point I have heard through conversation that Dr Mash use to
dislike step dosing as the build up of nor-ibogaine levels was not considered
safe. Which leaves me to ask does step dosing require overall higher doses?
If not what is behind this report in terms of the danger of nor ibogaine
levels?

Dr. Mash dislikes a lot of things and if she had any data on step dosing she
ought to publish it.  I will defer to a statement provided by former NIDA
director Alan Leshner.  I don’t know if it is original to Leshner.  I doubt it. I
think I have heard Mash quote it and I certainly have quoted it:  “In god we
trust.  All others present data.”  And additionally, I would say, that the
Bwiti ngangas (Fang and Mitsogo) appear have little interest in noribogaine as
they all step dose in a linear fashion:  one spoon after the next.  Just teasing
a bit.  Step dosing is also quite common among ibogaine providers outside of
Africa as well.

IBOGAINE: FORMS AND DOSE REGIMENS
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt

Thanks for some interesting discussion.

Howard

If you have any insight I would be very interested to know.

As far as medical doctors go you make a valid point.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Hi Lee,
I don’t question the value of dose escalation. I would however be
appreciative of accurate reports rather than broad ranging claims as to
either the Fang or Mitsogo. What we need is a new generation of ethnologists
to walk in
the footsteps of Fernandez, Gollnhofer, Barabe, etc. and let us know what are
the skills and practices of various ngangas in different chapels and sects.
And I realize I am asking a lot. Who rates the skills of medical doctors in
the
cities in which we live?

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: You are strong.
Date: May 20, 2005 at 7:20:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

Thats all the love I keep sending you my brother. Don’t you remember the agreement we all made in heaven,
…your friend does, and he’s waiting for you,..they all are…….

with love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:04 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: Re: [Ibogaine] J

Jasen, like it or not, you get right in my head sometimes. Quit it. No don’t. Yea do. No don’t. Thanx                 Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT You don’t have to read this
Date: May 20, 2005 at 6:50:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rach, thanx for the hug through hyperspace. I could feel it. I’ve kinda calmed down a little now. Your mention of a meeting made me smile. I don’t know why but it made me think of a time I was in detox. I’m sittin’ there in pajama’s and this very proper looking old lady walks in the TV room. I’m thinkin’ great, somebody’s grandmother snuck in here. Well, she primly smoothed out her skirt, looked me dead in the eye and said, ” AINT THIS A BITCH? YOU DON’T HAVE TO DO THIS ANYMORE,” so loud that it brought the crack dude out of his benzo stupor the nurses so kindly put him in. I’ll never forget that. She had one of the best AA leads I ever heard. I was mesmerized. But I’m in here for Oxy’s and Heroin I told her. “Honey, it’s all the same,” she told me. Hold on I got a message from somebody. It’s Jeff, good timing. You guys are great. This is starting to look like a set up. LOL  I’m going for my infusion now so you take care out in Cali, and be careful wherever you are. Love and one hits.             Randy

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT You don’t have to read this
Date: May 20, 2005 at 4:53:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy,

Thanks for mentioning the beating up of hippies in your drugstore
cowboy post.  It reminded me to do some work, sitting out here in
sunny Cal-i-for-nia.

Visiting my sister and niece, and even the joy of an 18-month old
toddler blowing me kisses and smiling so freakin’ cute its insane
doesn’t seem to crack open my heart at the moment.  Trying to stay
light, but I don’t seem to breathe too well without hubby in my orbit.
It’s weird that way… codependence or whatever.  I think I need a
meeting.  Or a book party.  Or a green-crossed Medical Marijuana
infusion.

This story on ebay poppy commerce caught my eye last week, and thought
it might ring some other bells:
http://www.gtweekly.com/cover/story.2005-05-11.2926465392

2005 is a good year to be alive.  I’m glad you’ve survived this far.
We got your back, buddy.  We got your back… love, rachel

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sex and drugs question(s)
Date: May 20, 2005 at 2:28:51 PM EDT
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To everyone (please excuse the cross post):

What drugs did/do you take to enjoy sex, and which drugs do you/did you take that hampered your enjoyment of sex? Is there any drug or drugs that you always enjoyed taking during sex or to have sex while under the influence of? I have to write an article about Sex and Drugs and want to read some other opinions, stories, anecdotes, etc. on the topic from other people. Please be aware I may use quotes from any material posted on the topic, so please make note if you prefer not to have your name used, or how you’d prefer I label you if and when I use any quotes.
I’m still not even sure what I’m writing on this topic, but do know I need more personal viewpoints than just my own please, and don’t want to rely on simply reading off the internet and books- I want it to have a bit of umph to it, and that will be by having others’ viewpoints and experiences included. I already got some hilarious quotes from a director friend of mine out in California, but I could use a few more interesting takes on the topic please.
Thanks to any who would care to share, on or off list. Thanks.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT You don’t have to read this
Date: May 20, 2005 at 2:23:02 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

STOP THIS RIGHT NOW RANDY.
You’re making my keyboard all slobbery and slimey from the drool rolling from outta my slightly gaping mouthhole, you freak you.
Seriously, very sorry to hear about your friend, it’s a bummer when we lose people unexpectedly, particularly by their own hand out of the blue.
It’s ok to reminisce obvious, I do it all the time, but damn, do you have to make it sound so…errr…exciting? Appealing? Tempting?

I can’t believe the dope he got. Everything. Morphine, Dilaudid, Pantapon’s. liquid Demerol, clinical Coke, everything. So many hits of speed that I think people are still awake over that shit. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, we proceed to evolve into country boy speedballs. 2 number 4 Dilaudids, about an eighth of a gram of clinical coke, and all the liquid Demerol you can get in the fit and leave room to pull up a little air and shake it. My ears are still ringing<

Egad. I gave up some drugs?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT You don’t have to read this

It’s 1975. I’m 18 years old. The motor in my 67 Mustang is trying it’s best to be civil as I sit at the light. Fuck it, I rev it a little. Those 351 heads really make it breath a lot better. Sounds killer. I still can’t understand why Ricky shot himself. DAMNNNNNNNNNN, and lived through it. 12 gauge right to the head. I’m goin’ to the party anyway. I aint got no dope, but I know before the night is out I’ll have some, (I’m thinking). Boy was I right. The acceleration and sound that comes from the 289 motor I built hits me like a shot of coke when I kick it down Broadway. Party time. Drink, and get that bad shit outta your head. OK, I can do that. Somehow the booze just doesn’t cut it this time. When I get to the party I’m not in a good mood. Why is everybody blaming Mike for something that Ricky did at home by himself? Mike was just jokin’ when he said it was better to put the gun your mouth when you try and kill yourself. That LSD we were doing at the time thought that suicide was funny. That LSD thought everything was funny though. I get to the party just in time to see two football jocks about to kick Mike in his hippy ass. I’m drunk enough to not give a fuck, and I get outta my car with a pair of nunchucks in my hand and dare these red neck mother fuckers to come my way. At this point I wish someone would hit me. They don’t. Pussy’s When Mike gets in the car he says “we need some tequila”. I agree, we need lots of tequila. As were going to the liquor store he starts telling me about this drug store he has been looking at. It’s a cherry man, never been hit. 4 doctors offices and a pharmacy. We’ll hit ’em all. What the fuck, I’m up for anything at this point. What else do I do with all this adrenaline? “Let’s do it” I say and then interject, “we gotta go get Mark. he’s been waitin’ all night for me to come over”.”OK, go get him, he can help”. At this point I’m thinkin”, (help?) what kinda shit you got me into anyway, but I don’t say anything. We got Mark (he’s dead now too) and we’re heading up the interstate towards the point of no return, I’m wishin’ the cops would try and chase me, they don’t. Pussy’s again. I wish somebody would grow a dick or something. We get to bum fucked KY, and I try like hell not to make any noise as we roll through the town. The 4 speed I put in the car comes in handy as we come to the hill that leads up to the complex with the Dr’s offices in it. Down shit to second and creep. Man it’s quiet. My car sounds like a rocket trying to get outta the atmosphere without somebody noticing. We circle and park. “Well, whatcha gonna do bro?” “SIT, and don’t leave unless you hear the cops coming” he say’s. OK……………..that was the longest 5 minutes I ever experienced. He comes back and say’s “I want you to come and watch, if the cops come just whistle”. I’m 20 feet up a tree when I see the lights coming, I’m trying like hell to whistle. I just can’t make myself make that noise, so I scream like the intro to Sympathy for the Devil, (I still laugh about that) and hope for the best. I hit the ground runnin’ and dive in the car as quick as I can get there. Pussy again. Half an hour later Mike arrives all cool with a garbage bag in his hand and a look on his face like he just fucked the queen or something. “GO”, he say’s very quietly and as I’m hitting third down the road. I can’t believe the dope he got. Everything. Morphine, Dilaudid, Pantapon’s. liquid Demerol, clinical Coke, everything. So many hits of speed that I think people are still awake over that shit. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, we proceed to evolve into country boy speedballs. 2 number 4 Dilaudids, about an eighth of a gram of clinical coke, and all the liquid Demerol you can get in the fit and leave room to pull up a little air and shake it. My ears are still ringing…………………………………….I’m still runnin’ from pain. I just can’t go fast enough. Anybody got a super charger for a 5.0 motor?         Randy

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 20, 2005 at 1:58:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

Are you saying (in case i am not getting the point properly) that the early work of Fernandez dose not have sufficient evidence to reflect the position as it was then?

On another point I have heard through conversation that Dr Mash use to dislike step dosing as the build up of nor-ibogaine levels was not considered safe. Which leaves me to ask does step dosing require overall higher doses? If not what is behind this report in terms of the danger of nor ibogaine levels?

If you have any insight I would be very interested to know.

As far as medical doctors go you make a valid point.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Lee,

I don’t question the value of dose escalation. I would however be
appreciative of accurate reports rather than broad ranging claims as to either the Fang
or Mitsogo. What we need is a new generation of ethnologists to walk in the
footsteps of Fernandez, Gollnhofer, Barabe, etc. and let us know what are the
skills and practices of various ngangas in different chapels and sects. And I
realize I am asking a lot. Who rates the skills of medical doctors in the
cities in which we live?

Howard

In a message dated 5/19/05 10:51:32 AM, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< Howard,

You are probably right that matters today are somewhat different but I do
find it interesting that there may be a historical precedent set by the older of
the two groups (the Mitsoga) towards the idea of starting on low doses. Their
reasons for this may be 2 fold: spiritual information advising this and
secondly practical experience. However, I have no direct evidence to support this
other than what I am experiencing for myself.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Well, usually you can’t get better than Fernandez in his observations.

However, there are a number of issues in the citation below as they are not

observations but, general statements attributed to the Mitsogo, an indigenous
people

concerning the Fang, another indigenous people, who represent a competing
sect

of Bwiti. From reports of persons on this list who have gone to Africa for

Bwiti initiations, there are reports of intense competition between the
chapels

for initiates. While Fernandez disagreed with my perception that the Mitsogo

and Fang may represent orthodox and reformed sects respectively, I think that

lends some understanding to the attitude that may be reflected by each

sect/people towards the other. The quotation below concerning the casual use
of

eboga by the Fang, may relate to the fact that they allow the initiation of

women, though all of my knowledge is with significant distance to
observations and

time. I also think it must be understood that Fernandez’s observations were

from the 1970s and things do change in twenty-five or thirty years. I think

these questions concerning African practice might be better answered by some
of

the persons on the list with extensive African experience and hope that they

may add to this discussion.

Howard

In a message dated 5/18/05 5:15:46 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< >Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the

>difference between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

“Eboga was the psychotropic drug of choice in Metsogo Bwiti whereas

in the Fang ancestral cult, Bieri, two different drugs were

employed: malan (Alchornea floribunda) and ayang beyem

(Elaeophorbia drupifera).(#2) We have seen how Bwiti origin legends

credit the discovery of eboga either to the Pygmies (they may

actually be the source of the drug for all equatorial peoples), or

to the intervention of the ancestors, or the great gods. In point

of fact the extensive use of eboga in Fang Bwiti diffused to them

from the Metsogo.

“The Metsogo claim to be surprised by the casual use of eboga by

Fang and are not surprised to hear that death results. Before

giving large amounts of eboga to initiates Metsogo test them out

with small amounts first “to see if they can support the drug or if

they have evil spirits which will use the drug as an excuse to kill

their host.” Metsogo also claim to watch over the initiate much

more closely in the process of initiation. But in Fang Bwiti, the

mother and father of eboga (roles, it appears, taken over from

Metsogo) provide very close supervision.(#3) ”

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/fernandez.html >>

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It’s been a rough day
Date: May 20, 2005 at 12:49:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love you, BiscuitBoy!!! I hope t hear from you later, but wanted to
send you some love…
tink

On 5/20/05, Clean Water <clean_wtr@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi Randy,
sorry to hear about your friends.
cheers,
-j
— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Well, here you go. I’ve had a real tough day. In the
midst of me being in the
discussion here a friend of mine killed himself. I
got the news today about 5
PM. I don’t know what to say other than I feel
responsible somehow. I know it
seems like it is too much of a coincidence because
of what has been said, but
another friend of mine has died. Another one. I
can’t take this shit too much
longer. See, I told you that I wasn’t gonna wait to
hear about another friend
going to the grave. But what choice do I have? I’m
tryin’,  I swear to God.
He took a gun, and he blew his brains out. Gotta
respect that. No, you don’t. I
can’t believe this. He was addicted. Oxy’s and
Vicodin. Booze, weed, speed,
whatever, he was addicted. Mostly opiates. Always
opiates. His wife left him
about 6 months ago. I’m so sick, I thought about
stealing her from him, but I
didn’t. (I hope he gets the joke, I think he will) I
don’t know how to deal with
this one. It came from such an unexpected place.
Right when I think I can
relax, I hear about something like this. I think
that maybe I should take a long
look at what I’m trying to get done, and see if I
really can take all the pain
that comes with it. Here I am feeling all this pain,
can you imagine what his
family is feeling right now? I’m going to Erie, PA.
I didn’t know why I felt
the urgency to go until now. I guess he felt like he
had no other choice.
Raise your hand if you think he had one that he
didn’t know about.        Randy

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS
Date: May 20, 2005 at 12:45:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you guys still rock!!

On 5/19/05, Jasen Chamoun <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Hey Tink,

The force is most definatley still with you.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS

the movie was pretty good to :]
tired, cranky, and electric
but here’s hoping the force is still with me
love tink

On 5/19/05, Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk@kol.co.nz> wrote:
Yehhh, good words girl, good words, Ka Pai.
Kia ora
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2005 6:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS

“You must let go of that which you fear to lose the most.”
-Yoda
Revenge of the Syth
love
tink

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] J
Date: May 20, 2005 at 12:04:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, like it or not, you get right in my head sometimes. Quit it. No don’t. Yea do. No don’t. Thanx                 Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy
Date: May 20, 2005 at 11:54:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shell, what the fuck is sober? Is that some place in India? How did you know I been drinkin’? I’m kidding, but I’m not. How many people do I have to see die? Violently. I’m afraid to try and count the people that have died because of drugs, just the ones that I know. It’s hard to believe that I’m the one that is left. Maybe there is a reason for this. Please help me figure out what it is.                Randy

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Randy
Date: May 20, 2005 at 11:33:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy, sorry to hear about your losses, makes me aware how fortunate we are to have to have the opportunity it use ibogaine & have a list , also how tender we are as humans, lets stay sober!,love shell

darkmattersfo@comcast.net wrote:
I used Kudzu to reduce drinking cravings years ago and it seemed to help. Weed helped better though, I would smoke a little, get sleepy, and fall asleep. Beer just didn’t the right elemetns to make them munchi quality food,

> http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/051905HB.shtml
>
> Binge Drinking Urge Suppressed by Taking the Herb Kudzu
> Medical News Today
> Tuesday 18 May 2005
> Researchers have found that the herb, kudzu, reduces one’s desire and
> urge to binge drink. Two groups of young adult drinkers, all volunteers,
> were observed while they watched TV for an hour-and-a-half. They had an
> unlimited supply of beer.
> One group had taken pills made from the herb kudzu, while the other took
> a placebo. The ‘kudzu’ group seemed to lose the desire to binge on booze.
> The placebo group drank three-and-a-half beers, on average, during the
> 90 minute session. The kudzu group drank just 1.8 beers.
> The volunteers were all in their early twenties. Researchers said it was
> quite easy to gather the volunteers.
> snip-
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
> Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
>
>
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>
>

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot – putting baseball cards on wings
Date: May 20, 2005 at 11:26:51 AM EDT
To: MorningWood@googlegroups.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oftentimes in the  omitted,

Random harp
is
body of 72,
with
spirit
pool
wind
mill
flow

enhance
72 petri dishes
with
growing

(musicians and instruments of the future)

no one  sound
natural
Milk & Honey
Monk

unusual Wind
shapes
comes from
harmonic
which generate atmospheres  >

memories spinning layers
and

mutating

gee

key
,

and several thousand frogs

connect poo.
one organized
poo tour:
connect
poo tour:

____________

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] kudzu cuts binge drinking?
Date: May 20, 2005 at 11:20:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I used Kudzu to reduce drinking cravings years ago and it seemed to help. Weed helped better though, I would smoke a little, get sleepy, and fall asleep. Beer just didn’t the right elemetns to make them munchi quality food,

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/051905HB.shtml

Binge Drinking Urge Suppressed by Taking the Herb Kudzu
Medical News Today
Tuesday 18 May 2005
Researchers have found that the herb, kudzu, reduces one’s desire and
urge to binge drink. Two groups of young adult drinkers, all volunteers,
were observed while they watched TV for an hour-and-a-half. They had an
unlimited supply of beer.
One group had taken pills made from the herb kudzu, while the other took
a placebo. The ‘kudzu’ group seemed to lose the desire to binge on booze.
The placebo group drank three-and-a-half beers, on average, during the
90 minute session. The kudzu group drank just 1.8 beers.
The volunteers were all in their early twenties. Researchers said it was
quite easy to gather the volunteers.
snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: Drug-Watch: The Legislation of Morality
Date: May 20, 2005 at 9:00:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In Kings X, London, a man called Tony, of Tony’s Hemp Corner fame, swears by drinking his ibo-urine. Least he did about 3 years ago when I last saw him. I think he reckons it extends the trip by days.

Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 12 May 2005 20:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Drug-Watch: The Legislation of Morality

Preston, you have made me come up with an idea I have been bouncing around in my head. Now, I say this in jest but there could be something to it. As far as I know urine is the only source of noribogaine that there is. Maybe Ms. Mash knows something we don’t, but until she releases her findings, I think that I’m right. Get where I’m going with this yet? We take the pee from our Ibogaine treatments and dehydrate it and put it in capsules. I know when I did my treatment last year my provider said that some people were drinking the pee. I looked him in the eye and asked him, “Do they ever get rid of that taste in their mouth?” EVER? Freeze dried noribogaine piss. Get it while it’s hot! I hope this doesn’t piss anybody off. But I guess that’s better than getting pissed on. LOL I’m feeling full of piss and vinegar. I’ll never grow up.            Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy
Date: May 20, 2005 at 8:36:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

You are right. I was out of line here. I reacted out of my anger. Sorry. Hopefully my apologies covered this and that I learned something from this discussion regarding the way I handle my anger.

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Lee

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 5/17/2005 5:05:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Here, here! I think the people keeping these secrets need to take more ibogaine and discover the light within. Then maybe they will know what they are actually dealing with. Lee
That’s what pissed me off.        Randy

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT You don’t have to read this
Date: May 20, 2005 at 8:00:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s 1975. I’m 18 years old. The motor in my 67 Mustang is trying it’s best to be civil as I sit at the light. Fuck it, I rev it a little. Those 351 heads really make it breath a lot better. Sounds killer. I still can’t understand why Ricky shot himself. DAMNNNNNNNNNN, and lived through it. 12 gauge right to the head. I’m goin’ to the party anyway. I aint got no dope, but I know before the night is out I’ll have some, (I’m thinking). Boy was I right. The acceleration and sound that comes from the 289 motor I built hits me like a shot of coke when I kick it down Broadway. Party time. Drink, and get that bad shit outta your head. OK, I can do that. Somehow the booze just doesn’t cut it this time. When I get to the party I’m not in a good mood. Why is everybody blaming Mike for something that Ricky did at home by himself? Mike was just jokin’ when he said it was better to put the gun your mouth when you try and kill yourself. That LSD we were doing at the time thought that suicide was funny. That LSD thought everything was funny though. I get to the party just in time to see two football jocks about to kick Mike in his hippy ass. I’m drunk enough to not give a fuck, and I get outta my car with a pair of nunchucks in my hand and dare these red neck mother fuckers to come my way. At this point I wish someone would hit me. They don’t. Pussy’s When Mike gets in the car he says “we need some tequila”. I agree, we need lots of tequila. As were going to the liquor store he starts telling me about this drug store he has been looking at. It’s a cherry man, never been hit. 4 doctors offices and a pharmacy. We’ll hit ’em all. What the fuck, I’m up for anything at this point. What else do I do with all this adrenaline? “Let’s do it” I say and then interject, “we gotta go get Mark. he’s been waitin’ all night for me to come over”.”OK, go get him, he can help”. At this point I’m thinkin”, (help?) what kinda shit you got me into anyway, but I don’t say anything. We got Mark (he’s dead now too) and we’re heading up the interstate towards the point of no return, I’m wishin’ the cops would try and chase me, they don’t. Pussy’s again. I wish somebody would grow a dick or something. We get to bum fucked KY, and I try like hell not to make any noise as we roll through the town. The 4 speed I put in the car comes in handy as we come to the hill that leads up to the complex with the Dr’s offices in it. Down shit to second and creep. Man it’s quiet. My car sounds like a rocket trying to get outta the atmosphere without somebody noticing. We circle and park. “Well, whatcha gonna do bro?” “SIT, and don’t leave unless you hear the cops coming” he say’s. OK……………..that was the longest 5 minutes I ever experienced. He comes back and say’s “I want you to come and watch, if the cops come just whistle”. I’m 20 feet up a tree when I see the lights coming, I’m trying like hell to whistle. I just can’t make myself make that noise, so I scream like the intro to Sympathy for the Devil, (I still laugh about that) and hope for the best. I hit the ground runnin’ and dive in the car as quick as I can get there. Pussy again. Half an hour later Mike arrives all cool with a garbage bag in his hand and a look on his face like he just fucked the queen or something. “GO”, he say’s very quietly and as I’m hitting third down the road. I can’t believe the dope he got. Everything. Morphine, Dilaudid, Pantapon’s. liquid Demerol, clinical Coke, everything. So many hits of speed that I think people are still awake over that shit. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, we proceed to evolve into country boy speedballs. 2 number 4 Dilaudids, about an eighth of a gram of clinical coke, and all the liquid Demerol you can get in the fit and leave room to pull up a little air and shake it. My ears are still ringing…………………………………….I’m still runnin’ from pain. I just can’t go fast enough. Anybody got a super charger for a 5.0 motor?         Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine – Carla
Date: May 20, 2005 at 7:23:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi carla,

What I said is that the number of deaths should be reported. This came out of a discussion on safety.

I never said that the names of providers should be released. I included that point in case I had given a different impression and also because I realise that if I were a provider I might feel threatened by my call for the discloure of deaths. In any case arguments develop.

Further you are not privy to off list conversations which may have come my way regarding my views and which may have then feed into a defense for what I was saying. Hence part of my apologies. The rest of my apologies were aimed at the way I reacted to the news of deaths.

I am trying to make a difference and if that puts me in the firing squad due to heated discussions so be it. I am sure it will not be the last time. It certainly isn’t the first time. Its a risk you take when you feel passionately about something and try to effect the status quo.

BTW I am not asking to be in charge of anything. In fact I am quite happy to see others stepping forward. I am just trying to go in the direction I feel drawn and mainly that is the psycho-spiritual work and the acceptance of ibogaine and working to deal with whatever threatens that.

You state:

So far you’ve
changed your position from anger, to apology, to no
secrets should be allowed, to secrets should be
allowed but someone should keep track of the secrets,
elected yourself to keep track of the secrets, then
went back to the start again 😉

Carla, Sorry but this statement is blatantly not true.

Humbly yours,

Lee

Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Randy 🙂 I think what Lee is really saying is that
he’s surprised and angry to find out ibogaine might be
less safe then he thought it was. So far you’ve
changed your position from anger, to apology, to no
secrets should be allowed, to secrets should be
allowed but someone should keep track of the secrets,
elected yourself to keep track of the secrets, then
went back to the start again 😉

Ithink that what is healthy is open and free
conversation without fear of being censored, even if
some people use that chance to do nothing except be
obnoxious, it’s easy to type delete.

There have been sooo many people through the years who
have shown up, decided they want to organize
everything, always with themselves in charge of course
😉 and been ignored.

Randy, amybe other people read your messages in
different ways, having been reading you for more then
a year, I didn’t get any sense of anything from your
messages expect your feelings and your sense of humor
🙂

Love

Carla B

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
> Lee, I wasn’t talking about Patrick’s death, I think
> we know that there
> wasn’t any kind of cover up when it happened in
> almost real time on the list. I was
> talking about other supposed deaths, such as Mexico
> or wherever. Anywhere. My
> point was that I couldn’t believe that anyone would
> give out Ibogaine without
> regard to the risk. Not anyone I have met anyway.
> This is just my limited
> experience. I am loyal to my last breath. Maybe it’s
> a southern thing. One of the
> worse things that ever happened to me happened
> because I was taking up for a
> friend. Not even a very good friend. Just a friend.
> Another point I would like
> to make now is, all this talk just might be
> upsetting the family’s of those
> who passed away. I’d say some of them still read the
> list. I know I wouldn’t
> want to see that everyday. I care about people.
> Feelings and all. Also I have
> been smacked around orally before about this, maybe
> I’m gettin’ gun shy or
> something. I had fully intended to say that I’m
> sorry for being human and acting
> like an ass yesterday. So, I’m sorry for being human
> and acting like ass
> yesterday. Hell, I’m sorry for acting like an ass in
> the future too. I know I’ll do
> it again. But I do it now because I love everybody I
> come in contact with. I
> can’t help it. I did Ibogaine. I love you too, Lee.
> I know that your intentions
> are good. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with ya.
> Randy
>

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It’s been a rough day
Date: May 20, 2005 at 6:45:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey brother
I m really sorry to hear of your friends passing.  I wish you peace of mind in the next weeks to come.
In moments like these my brother do everything to stay away from the tempatation to use.  You know you have a mission to complete and wont acomplish anything by using.  Stay strong.  You are in my thoughts and so is your friend.  Love you bro

Namaste
Matthew

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From: Clean Water <clean_wtr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It’s been a rough day
Date: May 20, 2005 at 6:20:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Randy,
sorry to hear about your friends.
cheers,
-j
— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Well, here you go. I’ve had a real tough day. In the
midst of me being in the
discussion here a friend of mine killed himself. I
got the news today about 5
PM. I don’t know what to say other than I feel
responsible somehow. I know it
seems like it is too much of a coincidence because
of what has been said, but
another friend of mine has died. Another one. I
can’t take this shit too much
longer. See, I told you that I wasn’t gonna wait to
hear about another friend
going to the grave. But what choice do I have? I’m
tryin’,  I swear to God.
He took a gun, and he blew his brains out. Gotta
respect that. No, you don’t. I
can’t believe this. He was addicted. Oxy’s and
Vicodin. Booze, weed, speed,
whatever, he was addicted. Mostly opiates. Always
opiates. His wife left him
about 6 months ago. I’m so sick, I thought about
stealing her from him, but I
didn’t. (I hope he gets the joke, I think he will) I
don’t know how to deal with
this one. It came from such an unexpected place.
Right when I think I can
relax, I hear about something like this. I think
that maybe I should take a long
look at what I’m trying to get done, and see if I
really can take all the pain
that comes with it. Here I am feeling all this pain,
can you imagine what his
family is feeling right now? I’m going to Erie, PA.
I didn’t know why I felt
the urgency to go until now. I guess he felt like he
had no other choice.
Raise your hand if you think he had one that he
didn’t know about.        Randy

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] It’s been a rough day
Date: May 20, 2005 at 5:30:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m so sorry to hear about your mate.   I hate to  think what he was going thru to have to block it so much, and to make that final decision.  It’s such a hard thing to get your head around,  the woulda coulda shoulda’s, but if someone is serious, they’re going to do it.
I understand your guilt, but you know in your heart…..there was far more to it….and you never did what you thought about doing.
He’ll get the joke, I feel him smiling now, and I know he’s sorry to everyone he left behind….but when pain gets to great for some of us, we can’t stay here any longer.  Please try to understand.
Love,  hugs, light and laughter……………

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 20 May 2005 3:28 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It’s been a rough day

Well, here you go. I’ve had a real tough day. In the midst of me being in the discussion here a friend of mine killed himself. I got the news today about 5 PM. I don’t know what to say other than I feel responsible somehow. I know it seems like it is too much of a coincidence because of what has been said, but another friend of mine has died. Another one. I can’t take this shit too much longer. See, I told you that I wasn’t gonna wait to hear about another friend going to the grave. But what choice do I have? I’m tryin’,  I swear to God. He took a gun, and he blew his brains out. Gotta respect that. No, you don’t. I can’t believe this. He was addicted. Oxy’s and Vicodin. Booze, weed, speed, whatever, he was addicted. Mostly opiates. Always opiates. His wife left him about 6 months ago. I’m so sick, I thought about stealing her from him, but I didn’t. (I hope he gets the joke, I think he will) I don’t know how to deal with this one. It came from such an unexpected place. Right when I think I can relax, I hear about something like this. I think that maybe I should take a long look at what I’m trying to get done, and see if I really can take all the pain that comes with it. Here I am feeling all this pain, can you imagine what his family is feeling right now? I’m going to Erie, PA. I didn’t know why I felt the urgency to go until now. I guess he felt like he had no other choice. Raise your hand if you think he had one that he didn’t know about.        Randy

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] NMR spectrum of Ibogaine HCl
Date: May 20, 2005 at 3:54:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

there are some new pictures at the Images section of

http://sacrament.kibla.si/

One of them is the NMR spectrum of Ibogaine HCl, which is (as far as I
know) the first such research in the world.

I’d like to thank the two German enthusiasts who made this possible ;-))

Marko

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] kudzu cuts binge drinking?
Date: May 19, 2005 at 11:58:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/051905HB.shtml

Binge Drinking Urge Suppressed by Taking the Herb Kudzu
Medical News Today
Tuesday 18 May 2005
Researchers have found that the herb, kudzu, reduces one’s desire and urge to binge drink. Two groups of young adult drinkers, all volunteers, were observed while they watched TV for an hour-and-a-half. They had an unlimited supply of beer.
One group had taken pills made from the herb kudzu, while the other took a placebo. The ‘kudzu’ group seemed to lose the desire to binge on booze.
The placebo group drank three-and-a-half beers, on average, during the 90 minute session. The kudzu group drank just 1.8 beers.
The volunteers were all in their early twenties. Researchers said it was quite easy to gather the volunteers.
snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It’s been a rough day
Date: May 19, 2005 at 11:28:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, here you go. I’ve had a real tough day. In the midst of me being in the discussion here a friend of mine killed himself. I got the news today about 5 PM. I don’t know what to say other than I feel responsible somehow. I know it seems like it is too much of a coincidence because of what has been said, but another friend of mine has died. Another one. I can’t take this shit too much longer. See, I told you that I wasn’t gonna wait to hear about another friend going to the grave. But what choice do I have? I’m tryin’,  I swear to God. He took a gun, and he blew his brains out. Gotta respect that. No, you don’t. I can’t believe this. He was addicted. Oxy’s and Vicodin. Booze, weed, speed, whatever, he was addicted. Mostly opiates. Always opiates. His wife left him about 6 months ago. I’m so sick, I thought about stealing her from him, but I didn’t. (I hope he gets the joke, I think he will) I don’t know how to deal with this one. It came from such an unexpected place. Right when I think I can relax, I hear about something like this. I think that maybe I should take a long look at what I’m trying to get done, and see if I really can take all the pain that comes with it. Here I am feeling all this pain, can you imagine what his family is feeling right now? I’m going to Erie, PA. I didn’t know why I felt the urgency to go until now. I guess he felt like he had no other choice. Raise your hand if you think he had one that he didn’t know about.        Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your a funny guy
Date: May 19, 2005 at 10:43:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

One year later and you are still making me laugh. : )

love ya Randy.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx Carla…….I think?

Carla, for some reason I’m not getting all the messages from the list, and I just read yours on inbox that I don’t usually use. I think I know what you are saying but, I just want to clarify something here. I didn’t say anything about keeping records of the treatments, that was Lee’s idea, not mine. I do think we need to compile data. And I don’t believe I changed my position once. So that said, thanx for what you said, really all I ever do is talk about my feelings and try and make people laugh. I try and be informative when I can, but there are better minds than mine here, so I let them talk the details. It’s helped keep me where I want to be so far. I speak my mind. Good or bad. I also feel very strongly about what’s going on in the US with Ibogaine. I’m hittin’ the road again soon, so yall have a good ‘un. I’ll be back.        Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS
Date: May 19, 2005 at 10:40:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Tink,

The force is most definatley still with you.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “tink” <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS

the movie was pretty good to :]
tired, cranky, and electric
but here’s hoping the force is still with me
love tink

On 5/19/05, Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk@kol.co.nz> wrote:
Yehhh, good words girl, good words, Ka Pai.
Kia ora
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2005 6:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS

“You must let go of that which you fear to lose the most.”
-Yoda
Revenge of the Syth
love
tink

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 19, 2005 at 10:23:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,

I don’t question the value of dose escalation.  I would however be
appreciative of accurate reports rather than broad ranging claims as to either the Fang
or Mitsogo.  What we need is a new generation of ethnologists to walk in the
footsteps of Fernandez, Gollnhofer, Barabe, etc. and let us know what are the
skills and practices of various ngangas in different chapels and sects.  And I
realize I am asking a lot.  Who rates the skills of medical doctors in the
cities in which we live?

Howard

In a message dated 5/19/05 10:51:32 AM, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< Howard,

You are probably right that matters today are somewhat different but I do
find it interesting that there may be a historical precedent set by the older of
the two groups (the Mitsoga) towards the idea of starting on low doses. Their
reasons for this may be 2 fold: spiritual information advising this and
secondly practical experience. However, I have no direct evidence to support this
other than what I am experiencing for myself.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

Well, usually you can’t get better than Fernandez in his observations.

However, there are a number of issues in the citation below as they are not

observations but, general statements attributed to the Mitsogo, an indigenous
people

concerning the Fang, another indigenous people, who represent a competing
sect

of Bwiti. From reports of persons on this list who have gone to Africa for

Bwiti initiations, there are reports of intense competition between the
chapels

for initiates. While Fernandez disagreed with my perception that the Mitsogo

and Fang may represent orthodox and reformed sects respectively, I think that

lends some understanding to the attitude that may be reflected by each

sect/people towards the other. The quotation below concerning the casual use
of

eboga by the Fang, may relate to the fact that they allow the initiation of

women, though all of my knowledge is with significant distance to
observations and

time. I also think it must be understood that Fernandez’s observations were

from the 1970s and things do change in twenty-five or thirty years. I think

these questions concerning African practice might be better answered by some
of

the persons on the list with extensive African experience and hope that they

may add to this discussion.

Howard

In a message dated 5/18/05 5:15:46 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< >Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the

difference between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

“Eboga was the psychotropic drug of choice in Metsogo Bwiti whereas

in the Fang ancestral cult, Bieri, two different drugs were

employed: malan (Alchornea floribunda) and ayang beyem

(Elaeophorbia drupifera).(#2) We have seen how Bwiti origin legends

credit the discovery of eboga either to the Pygmies (they may

actually be the source of the drug for all equatorial peoples), or

to the intervention of the ancestors, or the great gods. In point

of fact the extensive use of eboga in Fang Bwiti diffused to them

from the Metsogo.

“The Metsogo claim to be surprised by the casual use of eboga by

Fang and are not surprised to hear that death results. Before

giving large amounts of eboga to initiates Metsogo test them out

with small amounts first “to see if they can support the drug or if

they have evil spirits which will use the drug as an excuse to kill

their host.” Metsogo also claim to watch over the initiate much

more closely in the process of initiation. But in Fang Bwiti, the

mother and father of eboga (roles, it appears, taken over from

Metsogo) provide very close supervision.(#3) ”

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/fernandez.html >>

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [List going to junk mail
Date: May 19, 2005 at 9:59:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carla,
I don’t use a webmail system, but download it straight into Outlook Express,
and everynow and then the list plus drug war ends up there!!  It’s really
pissing me off cos I make rules and it should not happen!!  What’s the point
of that I ask?? Lol
Anyone know what’s going on with this??
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, 20 May 2005 11:46 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx Carla…….I think?

Hi Randy, noooo, that was Lee with the secret list,
not secret list, not you! All I really said was I
appreciated your sense of humor and having you here
🙂

Yahoo does the same thing, I’ve marked the list not
spam so many times but every few weeks the entire list
is moved into the bulk folder anyway.

Maybe a better way to say everything is it’s very
upsetting to know that at least 2 more people have
died just in this year.

Carla B

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Carla, for some reason I’m not getting all the
messages from the list, and I
just read yours on inbox that I don’t usually use. I
think I know what you are
saying but, I just want to clarify something here. I
didn’t say anything
about keeping records of the treatments, that was
Lee’s idea, not mine. I do think
we need to compile data. And I don’t believe I
changed my position once. So
that said, thanx for what you said, really all I
ever do is talk about my
feelings and try and make people laugh. I try and be
informative when I can, but
there are better minds than mine here, so I let them
talk the details. It’s
helped keep me where I want to be so far. I speak my
mind. Good or bad. I also
feel very strongly about what’s going on in the US
with Ibogaine. I’m hittin’ the
road again soon, so yall have a good ‘un. I’ll be
back.        Randy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Find what you need with new enhanced search.
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx Carla…….I think?
Date: May 19, 2005 at 7:45:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy, noooo, that was Lee with the secret list,
not secret list, not you! All I really said was I
appreciated your sense of humor and having you here
🙂

Yahoo does the same thing, I’ve marked the list not
spam so many times but every few weeks the entire list
is moved into the bulk folder anyway.

Maybe a better way to say everything is it’s very
upsetting to know that at least 2 more people have
died just in this year.

Carla B

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Carla, for some reason I’m not getting all the
messages from the list, and I
just read yours on inbox that I don’t usually use. I
think I know what you are
saying but, I just want to clarify something here. I
didn’t say anything
about keeping records of the treatments, that was
Lee’s idea, not mine. I do think
we need to compile data. And I don’t believe I
changed my position once. So
that said, thanx for what you said, really all I
ever do is talk about my
feelings and try and make people laugh. I try and be
informative when I can, but
there are better minds than mine here, so I let them
talk the details. It’s
helped keep me where I want to be so far. I speak my
mind. Good or bad. I also
feel very strongly about what’s going on in the US
with Ibogaine. I’m hittin’ the
road again soon, so yall have a good ‘un. I’ll be
back.        Randy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx Carla…….I think?
Date: May 19, 2005 at 5:58:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

safe journey Randy.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx Carla…….I think?

Carla, for some reason I’m not getting all the messages from the list, and I just read yours on inbox that I don’t usually use. I think I know what you are saying but, I just want to clarify something here. I didn’t say anything about keeping records of the treatments, that was Lee’s idea, not mine. I do think we need to compile data. And I don’t believe I changed my position once. So that said, thanx for what you said, really all I ever do is talk about my feelings and try and make people laugh. I try and be informative when I can, but there are better minds than mine here, so I let them talk the details. It’s helped keep me where I want to be so far. I speak my mind. Good or bad. I also feel very strongly about what’s going on in the US with Ibogaine. I’m hittin’ the road again soon, so yall have a good ‘un. I’ll be back.        Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanx Carla…….I think?
Date: May 19, 2005 at 5:15:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla, for some reason I’m not getting all the messages from the list, and I just read yours on inbox that I don’t usually use. I think I know what you are saying but, I just want to clarify something here. I didn’t say anything about keeping records of the treatments, that was Lee’s idea, not mine. I do think we need to compile data. And I don’t believe I changed my position once. So that said, thanx for what you said, really all I ever do is talk about my feelings and try and make people laugh. I try and be informative when I can, but there are better minds than mine here, so I let them talk the details. It’s helped keep me where I want to be so far. I speak my mind. Good or bad. I also feel very strongly about what’s going on in the US with Ibogaine. I’m hittin’ the road again soon, so yall have a good ‘un. I’ll be back.        Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 19, 2005 at 5:08:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Let he without sin cast the first stone…

On 5/19/05, Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sure Ben, I’ve heard so much about your film and hope
to have the chance to see it soon 🙂

There are always angry people here, I think we all
take turns 😉 There are also a lot of people here who
I don’t personally know and for all I know they might
be 40, but they act like they’re 10, never had a job
and are still living in their parent’s basement for
free while filling up messages here trying to get
attention.

Love

Carla B

— Ben De Loenen <daluna@mindvox.com> wrote:

People of the list,

How the situation is now:

We are finalizing the website this weekend, so
monday morning it will be
launched.

Thanks Carla for reacting on that mail about copying
the DVD. I still
have debts from making this film, which was a full
time investment
during about 1,5 years. Before that the
preproduction also took more
than a year, so if then people just would start
copying your work, it
would not be very stimulating to go on with
presenting the film,
promoting it in the media,…I know it all has taken
much more time than
I wanted, but unfortunately that’s how it goes when
you are dependent
on the goodwill of others. Anyway, me too I wish my
film will make a
difference for the global status of Ibogaine.

Peace,

Ben De Loenen

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:53:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the movie was pretty good to :]
tired, cranky, and electric
but here’s hoping the force is still with me
love tink

On 5/19/05, Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk@kol.co.nz> wrote:
Yehhh, good words girl, good words, Ka Pai.
Kia ora
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2005 6:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS

“You must let go of that which you fear to lose the most.”
-Yoda
Revenge of the Syth
love
tink

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine – Correction
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:32:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And I love you too :-).
I don’t think anyone would give it out with regard to the risk and maybe I am out of line to suggest that maybe not everyone is scrupulous about it 100% of the time. I have some fears. Even the best make mistakes.
I remember once someone telling me its wrong to put temptation in the way of a person. I use to think that I should be able to leave valuables lying around when people came into my home. Thats something I try not to do any more. So even if I trust someone I still will not put temptation their way. We are all human and sometimes we may not act to the best of our own standards. Thats why it benefits everyone imo to put as many safeguards in place as is possible. Its only fair on all involved.
I apologise to the family of Patrick if this discussion has been upsetting. Hopefully what has come out of it has served a greater good.
Btw thank God you have a mind of your own.
A big hug to ya,
Lee

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Lee, I wasn’t talking about Patrick’s death, I think we know that there wasn’t any kind of cover up when it happened in almost real time on the list. I was talking about other supposed deaths, such as Mexico or wherever. Anywhere. My point was that I couldn’t believe that anyone would give out Ibogaine without regard to the risk. Not anyone I have met anyway. This is just my limited experience. I am loyal to my last breath. Maybe it’s a southern thing. One of the worse things that ever happened to me happened because I was taking up for a friend. Not even a very good friend. Just a friend. Another point I would like to make now is, all this talk just might be upsetting the family’s of those who passed away. I’d say some of them still read the list. I know I wouldn’t want to see that everyday. I care about people. Feelings and all. Also I have been smacked around orally before about this, maybe I’m gettin’ gun shy or something. I had fully intended to say that I’m sorry for being human and acting like an ass yesterday. So, I’m sorry for being human and acting like ass yesterday. Hell, I’m sorry for acting like an ass in the future too. I know I’ll do it again. But I do it now because I love everybody I come in contact with. I can’t help it. I did Ibogaine. I love you too, Lee. I know that your intentions are good. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with ya.             Randy

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:32:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sure Ben, I’ve heard so much about your film and hope
to have the chance to see it soon 🙂

There are always angry people here, I think we all
take turns 😉 There are also a lot of people here who
I don’t personally know and for all I know they might
be 40, but they act like they’re 10, never had a job
and are still living in their parent’s basement for
free while filling up messages here trying to get
attention.

Love

Carla B

— Ben De Loenen <daluna@mindvox.com> wrote:

People of the list,

How the situation is now:

We are finalizing the website this weekend, so
monday morning it will be
launched.

Thanks Carla for reacting on that mail about copying
the DVD. I still
have debts from making this film, which was a full
time investment
during about 1,5 years. Before that the
preproduction also took more
than a year, so if then people just would start
copying your work, it
would not be very stimulating to go on with
presenting the film,
promoting it in the media,…I know it all has taken
much more time than
I wanted, but unfortunately that’s how it goes when
you are dependent
on the goodwill of others. Anyway, me too I wish my
film will make a
difference for the global status of Ibogaine.

Peace,

Ben De Loenen

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine – Correction
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:26:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy 🙂 I think what Lee is really saying is that
he’s surprised and angry to find out ibogaine might be
less safe then he thought it was. So far you’ve
changed your position from anger, to apology, to no
secrets should be allowed, to secrets should be
allowed but someone should keep track of the secrets,
elected yourself to keep track of the secrets, then
went back to the start again 😉

Ithink that what is healthy is open and free
conversation without fear of being censored, even if
some people use that chance to do nothing except be
obnoxious, it’s easy to type delete.

There have been sooo many people through the years who
have shown up, decided they want to organize
everything, always with themselves in charge of course
😉 and been ignored.

Randy, amybe other people read your messages in
different ways, having been reading you for more then
a year, I didn’t get any sense of anything from your
messages expect your feelings and your sense of humor
🙂

Love

Carla B

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Lee, I wasn’t talking about Patrick’s death, I think
we know that there
wasn’t any kind of cover up when it happened in
almost real time on the list. I was
talking about other supposed deaths, such as Mexico
or wherever. Anywhere. My
point was that I couldn’t believe that anyone would
give out Ibogaine without
regard to the risk. Not anyone I have met anyway.
This is just my limited
experience. I am loyal to my last breath. Maybe it’s
a southern thing. One of the
worse things that ever happened to me happened
because I was taking up for a
friend. Not even a very good friend. Just a friend.
Another point I would like
to make now is, all this talk just might be
upsetting the family’s of those
who passed away. I’d say some of them still read the
list. I know I wouldn’t
want to see that everyday. I care about people.
Feelings and all. Also I have
been smacked around orally before about this, maybe
I’m gettin’ gun shy or
something. I had fully intended to say that I’m
sorry for being human and acting
like an ass yesterday. So, I’m sorry for being human
and acting like ass
yesterday. Hell, I’m sorry for acting like an ass in
the future too. I know I’ll do
it again. But I do it now because I love everybody I
come in contact with. I
can’t help it. I did Ibogaine. I love you too, Lee.
I know that your intentions
are good. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with ya.
Randy

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:08:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/17/2005 5:05:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Here, here! I think the people keeping these secrets need to take more ibogaine and discover the light within. Then maybe they will know what they are actually dealing with. Lee
That’s what pissed me off.        Randy

From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] fwd…fwd..what we become
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:01:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mat

hey I like that thought – did you think it yourself or was in already thought of  by someone else- either way its part of the collective consciousness and made me smile.

Much Love

Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd…fwd..what we become
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:26:41 -0400

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd…fwd..what we become
Date: May 18, 2005 at 1:26:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cosmic Cookie

                           Consciousness is the Creative Source.
                                 We are this Consciousness.
                                We are this Creative Source.
                          Consciousness is the Enabler of Thought.
                              Thought is the Almighty Creator.

                                      The World of Man
                            is Thought converted into Activity.
                          The Universe is Expressed Consciousness.
                           Reality is the Expression of our Mind.
                                   What we see around us
                           is the Mirror Image of Mankind’s Mind.

                           WHAT WE THINK… IS… WHAT WE BECOME
Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine – Correction
Date: May 19, 2005 at 2:12:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee, I wasn’t talking about Patrick’s death, I think we know that there wasn’t any kind of cover up when it happened in almost real time on the list. I was talking about other supposed deaths, such as Mexico or wherever. Anywhere. My point was that I couldn’t believe that anyone would give out Ibogaine without regard to the risk. Not anyone I have met anyway. This is just my limited experience. I am loyal to my last breath. Maybe it’s a southern thing. One of the worse things that ever happened to me happened because I was taking up for a friend. Not even a very good friend. Just a friend. Another point I would like to make now is, all this talk just might be upsetting the family’s of those who passed away. I’d say some of them still read the list. I know I wouldn’t want to see that everyday. I care about people. Feelings and all. Also I have been smacked around orally before about this, maybe I’m gettin’ gun shy or something. I had fully intended to say that I’m sorry for being human and acting like an ass yesterday. So, I’m sorry for being human and acting like ass yesterday. Hell, I’m sorry for acting like an ass in the future too. I know I’ll do it again. But I do it now because I love everybody I come in contact with. I can’t help it. I did Ibogaine. I love you too, Lee. I know that your intentions are good. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with ya.             Randy

From: “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 19, 2005 at 11:12:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People of the list,

How the situation is now:

We are finalizing the website this weekend, so monday morning it will be
launched.

Thanks Carla for reacting on that mail about copying the DVD. I still
have debts from making this film, which was a full time investment
during about 1,5 years. Before that the preproduction also took more
than a year, so if then people just would start copying your work, it
would not be very stimulating to go on with presenting the film,
promoting it in the media,…I know it all has taken much more time than
I wanted, but unfortunately that’s how it goes when you are dependent
on the goodwill of others. Anyway, me too I wish my film will make a
difference for the global status of Ibogaine.

Peace,

Ben De Loenen

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 19, 2005 at 10:25:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

You are probably right that matters today are somewhat different but I do find it interesting that there may be a historical precedent set by the older of the two groups (the Mitsoga) towards the idea of starting on low doses. Their reasons for this may be 2 fold: spiritual information advising this and secondly practical experience. However, I have no direct evidence to support this other than what I am experiencing for myself.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Well, usually you can’t get better than Fernandez in his observations.
However, there are a number of issues in the citation below as they are not
observations but, general statements attributed to the Mitsogo, an indigenous people
concerning the Fang, another indigenous people, who represent a competing sect
of Bwiti. From reports of persons on this list who have gone to Africa for
Bwiti initiations, there are reports of intense competition between the chapels
for initiates. While Fernandez disagreed with my perception that the Mitsogo
and Fang may represent orthodox and reformed sects respectively, I think that
lends some understanding to the attitude that may be reflected by each
sect/people towards the other. The quotation below concerning the casual use of
eboga by the Fang, may relate to the fact that they allow the initiation of
women, though all of my knowledge is with significant distance to observations and
time. I also think it must be understood that Fernandez’s observations were
from the 1970s and things do change in twenty-five or thirty years. I think
these questions concerning African practice might be better answered by some of
the persons on the list with extensive African experience and hope that they
may add to this discussion.

Howard

In a message dated 5/18/05 5:15:46 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< >Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the
>difference between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

“Eboga was the psychotropic drug of choice in Metsogo Bwiti whereas
in the Fang ancestral cult, Bieri, two different drugs were
employed: malan (Alchornea floribunda) and ayang beyem
(Elaeophorbia drupifera).(#2) We have seen how Bwiti origin legends
credit the discovery of eboga either to the Pygmies (they may
actually be the source of the drug for all equatorial peoples), or
to the intervention of the ancestors, or the great gods. In point
of fact the extensive use of eboga in Fang Bwiti diffused to them
from the Metsogo.

“The Metsogo claim to be surprised by the casual use of eboga by
Fang and are not surprised to hear that death results. Before
giving large amounts of eboga to initiates Metsogo test them out
with small amounts first “to see if they can support the drug or if
they have evil spirits which will use the drug as an excuse to kill
their host.” Metsogo also claim to watch over the initiate much
more closely in the process of initiation. But in Fang Bwiti, the
mother and father of eboga (roles, it appears, taken over from
Metsogo) provide very close supervision.(#3) ”

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/fernandez.html

On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:58:31 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/18/05 3:20:52 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:
>
><< Fang Bwiti are said take
>higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
>the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
>gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer
>deaths.
> >>
>
>Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the
>difference
>between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.
>
>Thanks
>
>Howard >>

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine – Correction
Date: May 19, 2005 at 7:35:04 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

Sorry I just realised that there was mention of deaths in particular locations that may not be getting reported. Perhaps that is what upset you? I don’t know.

Lee

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi randy,

I think its fair to say that you are taking this thing way out of context.

Nobody and I mean nobody has pointed a finger at anyone. Please feel free to post evidence to the contrary. What came out in the heat of discussion was the way deaths may be getting covered up and the opinion that that in the long run does not serve the cause of ibogaine well plus a realisation that ones physical condition apart from tests is very important before treatment. Thank God I realise that now. Maybe I can give out better safety advice.

There has not been a single word of blame pointed at any provider who may have been sitting for the person except to say there may be some providers who are not as scrupulous as they could be and are unaccountable as there is no agreed set of standards people have to sign up to. But that has zilch to do with Patrick’s death. If you have cross connected two ideas in your own mind and concluded this debate is an attack on a particular person then thats not the fault of the discussion. None of us even know who the provider was or the circumstances so how can we even do that? Personally my heart goes out to whoever was providing for Patrick as I am sure that person must be devastated. Whoever you are I do hope you can find a way to accept that you were giving someone a last chance who probably had no other chance left to them. And for Patrick, if from his death this discussion has prompted a review of the way things are handled then his death will have served a higher purpose apart from whatever other good may result from it. Do you want to stand in the way of that?

Forgive me if I say but maybe you are feeling a little sensitive on this issue but that doesn’t mean the rest of us are a bunch of bastards for discussing it. With all due respects but maybe this is a personal issue for you that has nothing to do with this discussion or with us discussing it?

Re: reporting of deaths and causes. I don’t believe any report should include the providers name particularly if there is a strict protocol being followed that has been agreed upon by all involved. The naming of a provider would be counterproductive and most unfair. Providers need to be protected. But someone somewhere needs to keep records.

It seems to me that ibogaine is not killing people. Its simply a case of a calculated risk that one is entitled to take. That said, if the process is properly recorded (pre-questionaires on lifestyle, post-mortem etc) the evidence should show that the person died due to a weakened system and took ibogaine as a last resort to save their life. (The same person would probably die from a 100 yard sprint). If however no records are kept and all we have to go on are exposees which say so many people have died after taking ibogaine tell me how that promotes the long term acceptance of ibogaine? All it does is unfairly point the finger at ibogaine for lack of proper records.

For me that is the issue and in case you didn’t realise by now my long term goal is the use and acceptance of ibogaine by millions of people for psycho-spiritual purposes. You and I are just a couple of fish in a big pond.

Bring on the charter!

Lee

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Todd, let me spell it out for you. And by the way, I wasn’t at all singling you out for anything, I was just using your post as a starting point to rant a little. I keep forgetting that you must continually state the obvious here. Someone died in Mexico. I never said anything about it because I didn’t think it was my job to spread a rumor. I heard about it but I had no data and really all I could have ever done is help someone gossip about it. The provider there at the time MUST have been devastated, and it was my perception that some people were coming down on the guy pretty hard. I don’t think it was his idea for the person that died to take the Ibogaine. That person came to him. And here we go with a rumor again, but I can imagine the person was pretty pushy about being treated. Casting disparaging remarks his way probably hurts him pretty bad at this point. I truly care about people. Even people I don’t really know very well. It’s my nature, my Momma raised me that way, and the first mother fucker that says anything about my mother…………………. here I go again. Sorry. I try and be honest, that leaves me wide open for abuse from the intellectual giants here on the list. I guess ego’s need something to feed on. I could change my style and wax philosophically about the state of Ibogaine, and what needs to be done…………………NAAAAAAAA I’d rather shake my dick at them, and not be afraid to get my hands dirty, and actually try and do something about it. If that sets me up for sarcasm, or any other type of verbal shot, then I guess I did my good deed for the day. At least someone else won’t be getting fucked with by them. It’s kind of like, (analogy time), here I’ll pop some smoke and put up a screen while you guys go around the other side and keep working. I took this upon my self, and I am completely and utterly delusional, just ask Elvis, he’ll tell ya. Soon enough, I’ll be silent too.  Randy

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – low dose treatment Shelley
Date: May 19, 2005 at 7:26:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Shelley,

You are right there are all kinds of interesting issues here. There is so much one can learn from ongoing ibogaine use. There is also so much we can learn at an ego/emotional level on lower doses.

BTW What do you mean by the flood? Is it the sudden hit that comes from a high dose of ibogaine?

I think the priority in treating addiction to begin with should be to simply interrupt it. The whole breaking open the head thing is secondary imo. But a follow up treatment is a possibility when the person is in better health. Maybe a program of interruption over a period of time followed by the major session at a physically appropriate date.

That said I would opt for step dosing using the minimum dose and keep someone in observation should they need more dosing from withdrawals. One reason I say this is because I had a message in one of my sessions about 3 years ago which I didn’t understand and it was this: Beginners, give low. Now I think its starting to make a lot more sense to me.

The body does adjust to the presence of ibogaine in my experience. So if one starts with a series of low doses by the time one takes a higher dose the adverse effects are lessened and ones lifestyle is better able to support the physical duress of the session – i.e. the risks have been halfed if not quartered or eighted. It would be interesting to draw up a Harm Reduction Program for ibogaine based on minimum doses.

Gently does it.

Lee

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Lee, I agree theres nothing like the flood for spiritual lift ,but regardless , i had a great experience with the gradual ,I dont think its usually done gradualiy  for short acting opiates ,but It was intense enough anyway ,vomit & all! It was alot quicker recovery time for me . I dont know how much the hep c interplays with the whatchacallit enzyme that lets noribogaine process ,or my overall sensitivity.I do believe low dose given at intervals like I had worked the best ever.It provides another option for those unwilling to be flooded, Ive heard discussions like “how important is the flood in overall picture for a detox?” Maybe it is safer as well as youre not processing as much at one time. But keep in mind that I was treated in Mexico ,they use 13-14 mg / kg for women, which is kinda low, so I had residual withdrawal then & that enters into my overall assessment of how effective it all is . Who knows how much timing plays in as well. Interesting issues huh?I wouldnt trade my experiences with the flood for anything, but eventually the noribogaine wears off & for me, the intense spiritual aha’s wane,then ,the real work begins,for which I’m better prepared & willing to be focused on this time. The best I did was my third, which I had stayed off opiates for 48 hours ,had a very brief slip/habit ,so I was cleaner overall- now that was awesome!I’d be interested in others take on this stuff,love shell

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Shelley,

I am really curious. You say you did a low dose regiem over a number of days. Was there any reason why you didn’t do that in the first place? Is there a minimum level of dose one can take to remain effective? It seems to me that different providers work in different ways. Some give the full dose and others step dose. Spiritually the two can be quite different imo but from the point of view of addiction treatment does the step dose regiem prove any less effective than the full dose or does it depend on the level of addiction? Seems to me it can be a lot easier on the person.

Lee

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I detoxed twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that time ,the MD said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I remember being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in mexico,I figure the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the ones I work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get free anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never experienced before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical kinda setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to inquire about another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from ibogaine , & that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last detox I did was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3 times before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best results ever psychologically & spiritually, (3 months clean this time & counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very mild ,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw up at my hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole ends up carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances to consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the quintessential risk taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug just able to cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV insanity, so I’d risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of doing ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have easily done that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly elevated even, with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that have lost loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
> Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
> He took IBO in the
> evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
> to have a harder impact
> when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
> enough!) and he constantly
> felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
> of enormous blood
> pressure.
>
> He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
> night), and his pulse and
> blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
> heighten, but within normal.
> During these measurements he felt as before, and
> complained to the doctor
> all the time. When the doctor told him that his
> pulse and blood pressure
> are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
> normal. All the pressure
> was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
> physical plane – at
> all!!)
>
> He was taken back home, and had some divine
> experience afterwards ;-))
>
> This case was obviously a psychological one.
>
> I know from experience that very high pulse is
> possible; but its duration
> isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
> waves.
>
> Marko
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> > my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> > Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
> medical
> > supervision to counteract the potential side
> effects
> > of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
> pulse
> > (among other things). This is rather easy to do
> with
> > drugs such as Inderal and the like
> > Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
> pressure or pulse for that matter
> > went up much at all. My mother could tell you
> better than me. She’s a nurse
> > practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
> took my blood pressure once
> > and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
> wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> > think this just goes to show that no two
> treatments will ever be alike with
> > something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
> provider checked on me, he
> > could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
> This thing bothers me a lot.
> > I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
> and taken the treatment.
> > I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
> give me some time and
> > consideration after I cornered them at the
> conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> > was never put off by the way, everyone was very
> nice and treated me with
> > respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
> these people it was that they all
> > cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
> everyone pointing fingers at
> > someone who they know deep down was devastated by
> the death occurring during
> > the treatment? It happens in the states, it
> happens in Europe, and it happens in
> > Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
> calculated risk. So is
> > driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
> scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> > I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
> down home, but there is so
> > much more to learn about it that I have come to
> the realization that it is
> > going to take an enormous amount of money, and
> research, to ever completely
> > figure it out. Back to square one again.
> Randy
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – Randy – Acceptance of ibogaine
Date: May 19, 2005 at 7:05:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi randy,

I think its fair to say that you are taking this thing way out of context.

Nobody and I mean nobody has pointed a finger at anyone. Please feel free to post evidence to the contrary. What came out in the heat of discussion was the way deaths may be getting covered up and the opinion that that in the long run does not serve the cause of ibogaine well plus a realisation that ones physical condition apart from tests is very important before treatment. Thank God I realise that now. Maybe I can give out better safety advice.

There has not been a single word of blame pointed at any provider who may have been sitting for the person except to say there may be some providers who are not as scrupulous as they could be and are unaccountable as there is no agreed set of standards people have to sign up to. But that has zilch to do with Patrick’s death. If you have cross connected two ideas in your own mind and concluded this debate is an attack on a particular person then thats not the fault of the discussion. None of us even know who the provider was or the circumstances so how can we even do that? Personally my heart goes out to whoever was providing for Patrick as I am sure that person must be devastated. Whoever you are I do hope you can find a way to accept that you were giving someone a last chance who probably had no other chance left to them. And for Patrick, if from his death this discussion has prompted a review of the way things are handled then his death will have served a higher purpose apart from whatever other good may result from it. Do you want to stand in the way of that?

Forgive me if I say but maybe you are feeling a little sensitive on this issue but that doesn’t mean the rest of us are a bunch of bastards for discussing it. With all due respects but maybe this is a personal issue for you that has nothing to do with this discussion or with us discussing it?

Re: reporting of deaths and causes. I don’t believe any report should include the providers name particularly if there is a strict protocol being followed that has been agreed upon by all involved. The naming of a provider would be counterproductive and most unfair. Providers need to be protected. But someone somewhere needs to keep records.

It seems to me that ibogaine is not killing people. Its simply a case of a calculated risk that one is entitled to take. That said, if the process is properly recorded (pre-questionaires on lifestyle, post-mortem etc) the evidence should show that the person died due to a weakened system and took ibogaine as a last resort to save their life. (The same person would probably die from a 100 yard sprint). If however no records are kept and all we have to go on are exposees which say so many people have died after taking ibogaine tell me how that promotes the long term acceptance of ibogaine? All it does is unfairly point the finger at ibogaine for lack of proper records.

For me that is the issue and in case you didn’t realise by now my long term goal is the use and acceptance of ibogaine by millions of people for psycho-spiritual purposes. You and I are just a couple of fish in a big pond.

Bring on the charter!

Lee

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Todd, let me spell it out for you. And by the way, I wasn’t at all singling you out for anything, I was just using your post as a starting point to rant a little. I keep forgetting that you must continually state the obvious here. Someone died in Mexico. I never said anything about it because I didn’t think it was my job to spread a rumor. I heard about it but I had no data and really all I could have ever done is help someone gossip about it. The provider there at the time MUST have been devastated, and it was my perception that some people were coming down on the guy pretty hard. I don’t think it was his idea for the person that died to take the Ibogaine. That person came to him. And here we go with a rumor again, but I can imagine the person was pretty pushy about being treated. Casting disparaging remarks his way probably hurts him pretty bad at this point. I truly care about people. Even people I don’t really know very well. It’s my nature, my Momma raised me that way, and the first mother fucker that says anything about my mother…………………. here I go again. Sorry. I try and be honest, that leaves me wide open for abuse from the intellectual giants here on the list. I guess ego’s need something to feed on. I could change my style and wax philosophically about the state of Ibogaine, and what needs to be done…………………NAAAAAAAA I’d rather shake my dick at them, and not be afraid to get my hands dirty, and actually try and do something about it. If that sets me up for sarcasm, or any other type of verbal shot, then I guess I did my good deed for the day. At least someone else won’t be getting fucked with by them. It’s kind of like, (analogy time), here I’ll pop some smoke and put up a screen while you guys go around the other side and keep working. I took this upon my self, and I am completely and utterly delusional, just ask Elvis, he’ll tell ya. Soon enough, I’ll be silent too.  Randy

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS
Date: May 19, 2005 at 6:13:58 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yehhh, good words girl, good words, Ka Pai.
Kia ora
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2005 6:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS

“You must let go of that which you fear to lose the most.”
-Yoda
Revenge of the Syth
love
tink

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From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you! (now let us innonnitt)
Date: May 19, 2005 at 3:17:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 5/19/2005, “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m sorry I don’t know where it is online? I read the magazine MAPS
publishes, they have copies at a acupuncture center here.

yo….loadijjj,
cough it up & tell us where we can read this insightfullll dizzzcorse!!!!!

p,l,&u
marcus

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] STAR WARS
Date: May 19, 2005 at 2:51:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“You must let go of that which you fear to lose the most.”
-Yoda
Revenge of the Syth
love
tink

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!
Date: May 19, 2005 at 1:30:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry I don’t know where it is online? I read the magazine MAPS
publishes, they have copies at a acupuncture center here.

KV

On 19 May 2005 04:56:22 -0000, Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com> wrote:

could i getta link to this article?
thanx
marcus
On 5/19/2005, “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick I wanted to apologize profusely, I had opportunity to read the
new issue of MAPS. Brilliant article! Thank you from the bottom of my
heart, this answered the questions I’ve been pestering you about for
months!

I am so very sorry to have been rude but you do know had you written
back one sentence saying your talk and so much more would be published
in the near future, I wouldn’t have carried on so!

Thank you, in one article I think you covered a hundred messages of
debate here about low dose and “maintenance” and you did answer with
great clarity about “dirty maintenance”. Thank you so much cutie,
you’re a brilliant young man and wrote something that hasn’t ever been
written about ibogaine before.

For the fifth or sixth time in this message, I am very sorry for being
rude before, there is so much anger here sometimes it’s easy to lose
sight of how much you are doing. Thank you!

To post one more point relevant to the last days here, MAPS did write
that the clinic in Mexico was shut down. They did not say why or
mention the death.

KV

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!
Date: May 19, 2005 at 1:22:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t find this online, where can I download please.

Thank you.

— On Wed 05/18, Krista Vaughan < krista.vaughan@gmail.com > wrote:
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 22:30:53 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!

Patrick I wanted to apologize profusely, I had opportunity to read the<br>new issue of MAPS. Brilliant article! Thank you from the bottom of my<br>heart, this answered the questions I’ve been pestering you about for<br>months!<br><br>I am so very sorry to have been rude but you do know had you written<br>back one sentence saying your talk and so much more would be published<br>in the near future, I wouldn’t have carried on so!<br><br>Thank you, in one article I think you covered a hundred messages of<br>debate here about low dose and “maintenance” and you did answer with<br>great clarity about “dirty maintenance”. Thank you so much cutie,<br>you’re a brilliant young man and wrote something that hasn’t ever been<br>written about ibogaine before.<br><br>For the fifth or sixth time in this message, I am very sorry for being<br>rude before, there is so much anger here sometimes it’s easy to lose<br>sight of how much you are doing. Thank you!<br><br>To post one more point relevant
to the last days here, MAPS did write<br>that the clinic in Mexico was shut down. They did not say why or<br>mention the death.<br><br>KV<br><br><br>   /] <br>=——————————————————————— <br>=[\<br>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/ <br>IbogaineList.html [%]<br>   \] <br>=——————————————————————— <br>=[/<br><br><br><br><br>

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!
Date: May 19, 2005 at 12:56:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

could i getta link to this article?
thanx
marcus
On 5/19/2005, “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick I wanted to apologize profusely, I had opportunity to read the
new issue of MAPS. Brilliant article! Thank you from the bottom of my
heart, this answered the questions I’ve been pestering you about for
months!

I am so very sorry to have been rude but you do know had you written
back one sentence saying your talk and so much more would be published
in the near future, I wouldn’t have carried on so!

Thank you, in one article I think you covered a hundred messages of
debate here about low dose and “maintenance” and you did answer with
great clarity about “dirty maintenance”. Thank you so much cutie,
you’re a brilliant young man and wrote something that hasn’t ever been
written about ibogaine before.

For the fifth or sixth time in this message, I am very sorry for being
rude before, there is so much anger here sometimes it’s easy to lose
sight of how much you are doing. Thank you!

To post one more point relevant to the last days here, MAPS did write
that the clinic in Mexico was shut down. They did not say why or
mention the death.

KV

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Patrick thank you!
Date: May 18, 2005 at 10:30:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick I wanted to apologize profusely, I had opportunity to read the
new issue of MAPS. Brilliant article! Thank you from the bottom of my
heart, this answered the questions I’ve been pestering you about for
months!

I am so very sorry to have been rude but you do know had you written
back one sentence saying your talk and so much more would be published
in the near future, I wouldn’t have carried on so!

Thank you, in one article I think you covered a hundred messages of
debate here about low dose and “maintenance” and you did answer with
great clarity about “dirty maintenance”. Thank you so much cutie,
you’re a brilliant young man and wrote something that hasn’t ever been
written about ibogaine before.

For the fifth or sixth time in this message, I am very sorry for being
rude before, there is so much anger here sometimes it’s easy to lose
sight of how much you are doing. Thank you!

To post one more point relevant to the last days here, MAPS did write
that the clinic in Mexico was shut down. They did not say why or
mention the death.

KV

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From: Clean Water <clean_wtr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 10:03:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://images.google.com/images?q=%22rubber+duck%22&hl=en

-jason

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] A step back – a touch of reality
Date: May 18, 2005 at 9:24:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I don’t think you need to apologize, to putting forth your thoughts and ideas (I’ve yet to feel they attacked anyone?)……..I for one am paying attention to anyone with knowledge and thoughts about this, and lower dosing is looking quite good from my angle now…….
You can keep some of the people happy some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time…..or sumfink like that.
Keep the ideas coming, it’s all for the higher good right?
Kirk
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 11:07 p.m.
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] A step back – a touch of reality

Dear List,

I think maybe we are losing the thread of reality here – well me at least.

There are all kinds of extenuating circumstances that none of us are aware of that don’t come out on this list.

I am sorry if my posts seem to be attacking particular people – thats not what I meant. The whole issue got me going I am afraid. The work that is being done is being done under difficult circumstances and I for one do not want to make it any more difficult than it is which is why I am truely sorry if that is the effect my posts have had. Its work which while not perfect is definitely way better than none at all.

So I realise this discussion is perhaps not having the effect I hoped it would have, i.e., it’s backfiring. For that I apologise and say sorry from the bottom of my heart to anyone who feels I undermined their good work. Indeed I apologise to anyone who has had the unfortunate experience of tragedy in treatment and did the best they could under difficult circumstances. Nobody should point a finger their way. Once again if I came across like that I deeply apologise. That was not my intention. I have to admit that while I try to be completely motivated by the best intentions there are times when I get carried away. I need to work on my ego a little more.

Unfortunately here in Europe we are out of the loop and we really do not know what is going on.

While this list is a great place for discussions it is lacking the personal contact needed to put things into a real perspective. Personally I would like to come over to the US and get more acquainted with the reality on the ground.

Once again sorry and I ask anyone who feels that things are not right to realise its not those who are providing the service that are not right but the system that has pushed them into that situation. I think we should all give 100% support to everyone doing the best they can to lift people out of their suffering. And if there are concerns to try and deal with them constructively.

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 6:41:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

Rant on brotha!

I don’t follow the nuances and personalities of this
board very closely.  After my treatment I tend to
delete 9/10 of posts.  This is not because I’m not
interested it’s because I just don’t have time to read
them all.  The topic of “Vascular Trouble,” caught my
attention.

I obviously stepped into pre-existing conversation.

My bad.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Todd, let me spell it out for you. And by the way, I
wasn’t at all singling
you out for anything, I was just using your post as
a starting point to rant a
little. I keep forgetting that you must continually
state the obvious here.
Someone died in Mexico. I never said anything about
it because I didn’t think it
was my job to spread a rumor. I heard about it but I
had no data and really
all I could have ever done is help someone gossip
about it. The provider there
at the time MUST have been devastated, and it was my
perception that some
people were coming down on the guy pretty hard. I
don’t think it was his idea for
the person that died to take the Ibogaine. That
person came to him. And here
we go with a rumor again, but I can imagine the
person was pretty pushy about
being treated. Casting disparaging remarks his way
probably hurts him pretty
bad at this point. I truly care about people. Even
people I don’t really know
very well. It’s my nature, my Momma raised me that
way, and the first mother
fucker that says anything about my
mother…………………. here I go again.
Sorry. I try and be honest, that leaves me wide open
for abuse from the
intellectual giants here on the list. I guess ego’s
need something to feed on. I
could change my style and wax philosophically about
the state of Ibogaine, and
what needs to be done…………………NAAAAAAAA
I’d rather shake my dick at
them, and not be afraid to get my hands dirty, and
actually try and do
something about it. If that sets me up for sarcasm,
or any other type of verbal shot,
then I guess I did my good deed for the day. At
least someone else won’t be
getting fucked with by them. It’s kind of like,
(analogy time), here I’ll pop
some smoke and put up a screen while you guys go
around the other side and keep
working. I took this upon my self, and I am
completely and utterly
delusional, just ask Elvis, he’ll tell ya. Soon
enough, I’ll be silent too.  Randy

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 6:28:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mine was on the low side, very low, actually, and I didn’t have the
puking thing happen either.  I also spent 5 hours in severe twitch
out, complete with the full team of dr’s trying everything from reiche
healing to holding me down, but I think that that had a lot to do with
the fact that i got treated from a very large dose of methadone.  Any
one else have the severe twitchouts?
tink

On 5/18/05, Jasen Chamoun <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Hello Randy,

Concerning blood pressure whilst under the effect of Iboga/Ibogaine, mine
seemed to be very low. Most definatley not high.

love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood pressure or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you better than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she took my blood pressure
once and checked my pulse a couple of times but there wasn’t ever much of a
change. I think this just goes to show that no two treatments will ever be
alike with something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My provider
checked on me, he could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig? This
thing bothers me a lot. I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment. I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to give
me some time and consideration after I cornered them at the conference, or
wherever I could find them. I was never put off by the way, everyone was
very nice and treated me with respect. If I got one feeling from every one
of these people it was that they all cared very much about what they were
doing. Why is everyone pointing fingers at someone who they know deep down
was devastated by the death occurring during the treatment? It happens in
the states, it happens in Europe, and it happens in Africa. Clinical setting
or not, it is a risk. A calculated risk. So is driving a car. I don’t know
shit, really, in the scheme of things, about Ibogaine. I’ve studied on it
good, long, and hard, as we say down home, but there is so much more to
learn about it that I have come to the realization that it is going to take
an enormous amount of money, and research, to ever completely figure it out.
Back to square one again.       Randy

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Africa/was/Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 6:19:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, usually you can’t get better than Fernandez in his observations.
However, there are a number of issues in the citation below as they are not
observations but, general statements attributed to the Mitsogo, an indigenous people
concerning the Fang, another indigenous people, who represent a competing sect
of Bwiti.  From reports of persons on this list who have gone to Africa for
Bwiti initiations, there are reports of intense competition between the chapels
for initiates.  While Fernandez disagreed with my perception that the Mitsogo
and Fang may represent orthodox and reformed sects respectively, I think that
lends some understanding to the attitude that may be reflected by each
sect/people towards the other.  The quotation below concerning the casual use of
eboga by the Fang, may relate to the fact that they allow the initiation of
women, though all of my knowledge is with significant distance to observations and
time.  I also think it must be understood that Fernandez’s observations were
from the 1970s and things do change in twenty-five or thirty years.  I think
these questions concerning African practice might be better answered by some of
the persons on the list with extensive African experience and hope that they
may add to this discussion.

Howard

In a message dated 5/18/05 5:15:46 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< >Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the
difference between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

“Eboga was the psychotropic drug of choice in Metsogo Bwiti whereas
in the Fang ancestral cult, Bieri, two different drugs were
employed: malan (Alchornea floribunda) and ayang beyem
(Elaeophorbia drupifera).(#2) We have seen how Bwiti origin legends
credit the discovery of eboga either to the Pygmies (they may
actually be the source of the drug for all equatorial peoples), or
to the intervention of the ancestors, or the great gods. In point
of fact the extensive use of eboga in Fang Bwiti diffused to them
from the Metsogo.

“The Metsogo claim to be surprised by the casual use of eboga by
Fang and are not surprised to hear that death results. Before
giving large amounts of eboga to initiates Metsogo test them out
with small amounts first “to see if they can support the drug or if
they have evil spirits which will use the drug as an excuse to kill
their host.” Metsogo also claim to watch over the initiate much
more closely in the process of initiation. But in Fang Bwiti, the
mother and father of eboga (roles, it appears, taken over from
Metsogo) provide very close supervision.(#3) ”

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/fernandez.html

On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:58:31 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 5/18/05 3:20:52 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< Fang Bwiti are said take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer
deaths.

Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the
difference
between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

Thanks

Howard >>

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 5:48:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Todd, let me spell it out for you. And by the way, I wasn’t at all singling you out for anything, I was just using your post as a starting point to rant a little. I keep forgetting that you must continually state the obvious here. Someone died in Mexico. I never said anything about it because I didn’t think it was my job to spread a rumor. I heard about it but I had no data and really all I could have ever done is help someone gossip about it. The provider there at the time MUST have been devastated, and it was my perception that some people were coming down on the guy pretty hard. I don’t think it was his idea for the person that died to take the Ibogaine. That person came to him. And here we go with a rumor again, but I can imagine the person was pretty pushy about being treated. Casting disparaging remarks his way probably hurts him pretty bad at this point. I truly care about people. Even people I don’t really know very well. It’s my nature, my Momma raised me that way, and the first mother fucker that says anything about my mother…………………. here I go again. Sorry. I try and be honest, that leaves me wide open for abuse from the intellectual giants here on the list. I guess ego’s need something to feed on. I could change my style and wax philosophically about the state of Ibogaine, and what needs to be done…………………NAAAAAAAA I’d rather shake my dick at them, and not be afraid to get my hands dirty, and actually try and do something about it. If that sets me up for sarcasm, or any other type of verbal shot, then I guess I did my good deed for the day. At least someone else won’t be getting fucked with by them. It’s kind of like, (analogy time), here I’ll pop some smoke and put up a screen while you guys go around the other side and keep working. I took this upon my self, and I am completely and utterly delusional, just ask Elvis, he’ll tell ya. Soon enough, I’ll be silent too.  Randy

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: [Ibogaine] More Fernandez
Date: May 18, 2005 at 5:44:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reading on..

“In general, women’s accounts of their visions are much shorter
than men’s accounts though there is no belief in Bwiti that women
have shorter excursions than men. It appears that women’s primary
objective is to make contact with a dead relative, very often a
dead child, and when this is accomplished the vision experience is
fulfilled. Men are more elaborative. They also confess to being,
initially, more skeptical, and their visions tend as a consequence
to be more exploratory, as if the very richness of what they
discover overcomes their skepticism. ”

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 5:15:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the
difference between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

“Eboga was the psychotropic drug of choice in Metsogo Bwiti whereas
in the Fang ancestral cult, Bieri, two different drugs were
employed: malan (Alchornea floribunda) and ayang beyem
(Elaeophorbia drupifera).(#2) We have seen how Bwiti origin legends
credit the discovery of eboga either to the Pygmies (they may
actually be the source of the drug for all equatorial peoples), or
to the intervention of the ancestors, or the great gods. In point
of fact the extensive use of eboga in Fang Bwiti diffused to them
from the Metsogo.

“The Metsogo claim to be surprised by the casual use of eboga by
Fang and are not surprised to hear that death results. Before
giving large amounts of eboga to initiates Metsogo test them out
with small amounts first “to see if they can support the drug or if
they have evil spirits which will use the drug as an excuse to kill
their host.” Metsogo also claim to watch over the initiate much
more closely in the process of initiation. But in Fang Bwiti, the
mother and father of eboga (roles, it appears, taken over from
Metsogo) provide very close supervision.(#3) ”

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/fernandez.html

On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:58:31 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 5/18/05 3:20:52 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< Fang Bwiti are said take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer
deaths.

Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the
difference
between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

Thanks

Howard

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secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 5:00:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.answers.com/puppet

— ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 18.05.2005 um 22:43 schrieb ekki:
now -being clear and post-ibo- its back to normal.

i meant clean, not clear

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 4:54:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 18.05.2005 um 22:43 schrieb ekki:
now -being clear and post-ibo- its back to normal.

i meant clean, not clear

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 4:43:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

when i overdosed my blood pressure was incredibly low (the lower value couldn´t be measured any more) while my heart was pumping >190bpm. so maybe high pulse rate and low blood pressure go well together. btw i had very high blood pressure for years, now -being clear and post-ibo- its back to normal.
cheers ekki

Am 18.05.2005 um 22:34 schrieb Jasen Chamoun:

Hello Randy,

Concerning blood pressure whilst under the effect of Iboga/Ibogaine, mine seemed to be very low. Most definatley not high.

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Time travel and PKD
Date: May 18, 2005 at 4:34:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey, thanks for that one. i already wondered where the PKD discussions promised in the list commands went.
my personal favorite is “a scanner darkly”. very funny and sad at the same time and touches themes on politics, addiction, therapy,spirituality, and so on, amazing plot, great stoner dialogues
valis is more mystic though, i found it a bit confusing in the end, but a great read anywayz.
wasn´t he a long-term amphetamine addict? -ekki

Am 18.05.2005 um 21:18 schrieb <tomo7@starband.net>:

So Tink, what about PKD and this list really gets you? He is a cult hero
now for even people who havent heard of Ibogaine. Read VALIS and you have
to wonder if he ever took Ibo.

Maybe his consciousness naturally parallel processed between dimensions
similar to how the ibogaine seems to influence some peoples minds. For a
seminal sci fi author, he sure portrays a post ibo clarity in his
plotlines and protagonists. The final speech of the dying lead bad guy in
Blade Runner, played by Rutger Hauer, was a haunting voice of the sensory
enhanced android. It could have been a direct Bwiti quote, seemed to me.

I think the time travel you already have, if you work it well between this
entheogen and your own already charged mind. Ibo time travel isnt like a
bus trip, point A to B over time, more like an opening to non sequential
moments in memory and dream that dont require time to elapse for their
experience.

Many of PKDs stories model this one foot in our time, the other stepping
about without time reference. Maybe he did access some ibogaine, I dont
know.  Any social historians among you have info on that?  I sure wish
Earth would hurry and create several more genius writers of the PKD
flavor. What an intellectual tall cool drink of water that would be for
us!

Dr. Tom

So I’m doing a search for the NY Times Magazine article that i was
invovled in about a million years ago(can’t remember which year.  Or who
the damned interviewer was. Nice, eh?) and of all things to come popping
up was a whole link to a Philip K Dick site.
All I need now is the time travel…
luv
tink

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 4:34:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Randy,

Concerning blood pressure whilst under the effect of Iboga/Ibogaine, mine seemed to be very low. Most definatley not high.

love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood pressure or pulse for that matter went up much at all. My mother could tell you better than me. She’s a nurse practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she took my blood pressure once and checked my pulse a couple of times but there wasn’t ever much of a change. I think this just goes to show that no two treatments will ever be alike with something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My provider checked on me, he could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig? This thing bothers me a lot. I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects, and taken the treatment. I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to give me some time and consideration after I cornered them at the conference, or wherever I could find them. I was never put off by the way, everyone was very nice and treated me with respect. If I got one feeling from every one of these people it was that they all cared very much about what they were doing. Why is everyone pointing fingers at someone who they know deep down was devastated by the death occurring during the treatment? It happens in the states, it happens in Europe, and it happens in Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A calculated risk. So is driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the scheme of things, about Ibogaine. I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say down home, but there is so much more to learn about it that I have come to the realization that it is going to take an enormous amount of money, and research, to ever completely figure it out. Back to square one again.       Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:58:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/18/05 3:20:52 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< Fang Bwiti are said take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer deaths.

Just curious as to the source of your information concerning the difference
between Fang and Mitsogo doses of iboga.

Thanks

Howard

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:33:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can imagine that you would doubt something that you haven’t seen,
but from what I’ve read and seen on film, the Fang are a big-boned
and boisterous group. Death is more common in Africa because of
climate and lower average income. When people die more often, my
impression is that the survivors dwell on it less and focus on
living in the moment more.

In any case, I have heard that the Europeans seem weak to the Fang
(‘oops, who would have thought that dose would kill someone?’)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:03:01 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.<

I guess I don’t doubt the assertion that they have deaths from
ibogaine in
Africa, but somehow seem to doubt that they’re more “vigorous”
than the
average non-African jane/joe, or that death at all ages is more
common there
than here. I mean, I don’t really know either way, but it seems to

me that’s
a pretty broad statement. Life might have a different value, but
I’m unsure
it equals “less” value than we hold it in here.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

People do die in Africa. It is viewed as due to a flaw in the
person, perhaps due to an unconfessed sin. Fang Bwiti are said
take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have
originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer
deaths.

The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:02:49 -0700 Preston Peet
<ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without
the

benefit
of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that
have l! ost
loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts<

RAther rushed and busy this end of the internet, but Shelly, I
just wanted
to write and say “thank you” for posting this comment.
I wrote some more, haughty and slightly angry stuff here but
deleted it, it
isn’t important. The important part is that you hit the nail on
the head-
yes, there may very well be some risks with ibogaine, but if the
natives can
take it without doctors and heartmonitors why can’t we? I’m
curious as to
whether the natives in Gabon ever have any deaths?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment
is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I
detoxed
twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that
time ,the MD
said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no
doubt.I
remember
being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in
mexico,I figure
the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then
the
ones I
work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get
free
anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never
experienced
before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical
kinda
setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to
inquire about
another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from
ibogaine , &
that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last
detox I did
was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3
times
before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best
results
ever psychologically &am! p; spiritually, (3 months clean this
time &
counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was
very
mild
,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw
up at my
hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole
ends up
carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances
to
consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the
quintessential risk
taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug
just able to
cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV
insanity, so I’d
risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out
of

doing
ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have
easily done
that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly
elevated even,
with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those
african folks
do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean
absolutely

no
disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help
others, just my
thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and
complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his
pulse and ! blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine
experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is
possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
medical
supervision to counteract the potential side
effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
pulse
(amo! ng other things). This is rather easy to do
with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
pressure or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you
better than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two
treatments will ever be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
give me some time and
&g! t; > consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very
nice and treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it
happens in Europe, and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to
the realization that! it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.
Randy

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Time travel and PKD
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:18:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So Tink, what about PKD and this list really gets you? He is a cult hero
now for even people who havent heard of Ibogaine. Read VALIS and you have
to wonder if he ever took Ibo.

Maybe his consciousness naturally parallel processed between dimensions
similar to how the ibogaine seems to influence some peoples minds. For a
seminal sci fi author, he sure portrays a post ibo clarity in his
plotlines and protagonists. The final speech of the dying lead bad guy in
Blade Runner, played by Rutger Hauer, was a haunting voice of the sensory
enhanced android. It could have been a direct Bwiti quote, seemed to me.

I think the time travel you already have, if you work it well between this
entheogen and your own already charged mind. Ibo time travel isnt like a
bus trip, point A to B over time, more like an opening to non sequential
moments in memory and dream that dont require time to elapse for their
experience.

Many of PKDs stories model this one foot in our time, the other stepping
about without time reference. Maybe he did access some ibogaine, I dont
know.  Any social historians among you have info on that?  I sure wish
Earth would hurry and create several more genius writers of the PKD
flavor. What an intellectual tall cool drink of water that would be for
us!

Dr. Tom

So I’m doing a search for the NY Times Magazine article that i was
invovled in about a million years ago(can’t remember which year.  Or who
the damned interviewer was. Nice, eh?) and of all things to come popping
up was a whole link to a Philip K Dick site.
All I need now is the time travel…
luv
tink

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: [FWD] YOU’ve Been Drafted
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:16:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Richard Lake <rlake@mapinc.org>
Subject: [FWD] YOU’ve Been Drafted
Date: May 18, 2005 at 2:28:53 PM EDT
To: DPFT-L@listserv.tamu.edu, drctalk@drcnet.org, hemp-talk@hemp.net, va-dpr@drcnet.org, drugwar@mindvox.com

YOU’VE BEEN DRAFTED

UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU FOR THE WAR ON DRUGS

I want to thank the over 4,400 people who have sent emails to their Representatives opposing Congressman Sensenbrenner’s draconian mandatory minimum sentencing bill. This bill is now garnering national attention.

This bill would have serious consequences for our democracy, requiring you to spy on all your neighbors, including going undercover and wearing a wire if needed. Refusing to become a spy for the government would be punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of at least two years.

We need your help to fight this bill, including your ideas.

We alerted you last week ( http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=1876&l=93541 ) to the bill, entitled “Defending America’s Most Vulnerable: Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005” (H.R. 1528). Thousands of you have faxed Congress in opposition to the bill and we’ve already raised $2,000 online to fight it. Thank you!

We already told you about many of the terrible provisions in this legislation, but we are especially concerned about a section of the bill that turns every American into an agent of the state. Here’s how it works:

If you “witness” certain drug offenses taking place or “learn” that they took place you would have to report the offense to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide “full assistance” in the investigation, apprehension, and prosecution of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory two year prison sentence.

Here are some examples of offenses you would have to report to the police within 24 hours:

–You see someone you know pass a joint to a 20-year old college student.

–Your cousin mentions that he bought Ecstasy for some of his college friends.

–You find out that your brother, who has kids, recently bought a small amount of marijuana to share with his wife.

–Your substance-abusing daughter recently begged her boyfriend to find her some drugs even though they’re both in drug treatment.

In each of these cases you face jail time if you don’t call the police within 24 hours. It doesn’t matter if the offender is your friend or relative. It also doesn’t matter if you need 48 hours to think about it. You have to report the person to the government within 24 hours or go to jail. You also have to assist the government in every way, including wearing a wire if needed. Refusing to cooperate would cost you at least two years in prison (possibly up to ten).   In addition to turning family member against family member, the legislation could also put many Americans into dangerous situations by forcing them to go undercover to gain evidence against strangers.

This is what we’re up against in Congress and, as I told you last week, it’s not going to be easy. Sensenbrenner, the chair of the powerful Judiciary Committee, usually gets what he wants. Lots of people are afraid to challenge him. But we have a duty to our children to stop our country from turning into a police state. I’m sure you feel this duty, as well.

Here’s what you can do:

–If you haven’t already, please e-mail your member of Congress: http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=1876&l=93541

–Send us your creative ideas. How can we galvanize the American people against this bill? Email actionfeedback@drugpolicy.org .

–If you didn’t give money last week, please give today: http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=1876&l=93555 . Even $25 goes a long way (for instance, $25 will allow 100 voters to fax their members of Congress in opposition to this bill.)

–Submit a letter-to-the-editor ( http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=1876&l=93557 ) to your local paper urging your member of Congress to oppose the bill.

–Send this email to everyone you know. Unless tens of thousands of Americans speak up this bill could become law. It’s already passed out of subcommittee. The sponsor is now trying to line up the votes he needs to get it out of the full committee. From there it goes to the floor for a full House vote.

The provision that would turn Americans into spies is not the only thing wrong with this bill. Visit http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/ctt.asp?u=1876&l=93543 to read the full text of HR 1528 and learn more.

Sincerely,

Bill Piper
Director of National Affairs
Drug Policy Alliance

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: You’ve Been Drafted
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:06:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A very pertinent message for those on these lists, about how if we US citizens know of or hear about a drug crime being committed, or having been committed, we’re to report it or be in trouble:

—– Original Message —– From: Bill Piper, DPAlliance
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: You’ve Been Drafted

May 18, 2005manage my subscription | text version

You’ve Been Drafted
Uncle Sam Wants You For the War On Drugs

Dear Preston,
I want to thank the over 4,400 people who have sent emails to their Representatives opposing Congressman Sensenbrenner’s draconian mandatory minimum sentencing bill. This bill is now garnering national attention.
This bill would have serious consequences for our democracy, requiring you to spy on all your neighbors, including going undercover and wearing a wire if needed. Refusing to become a spy for the government would be punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of at least two years.
We need your help to fight this bill, including your ideas.
We alerted you last week to the bill, entitled “Defending America’s Most Vulnerable: Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005” (H.R. 1528). Thousands of you have faxed Congress in opposition to the bill and we’ve already raised $2,000 online to fight it. Thank you!
We already told you about many of the terrible provisions in this legislation, but we are especially concerned about a section of the bill that turns every American into an agent of the state. Here’s how it works:
If you “witness” certain drug offenses taking place or “learn” that they took place you would have to report the offense to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide “full assistance” in the investigation, apprehension, and prosecution of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory two year prison sentence.
Here are some examples of offenses you would have to report to the police within 24 hours:
–You see someone you know pass a joint to a 20-year old college student.
–Your cousin mentions that he bought Ecstasy for some of his college friends.
–You find out that your brother, who has kids, recently bought a small amount of marijuana to share with his wife.
–Your substance-abusing daughter recently begged her boyfriend to find her some drugs even though they’re both in drug treatment.
In each of these cases you face jail time if you don’t call the police within 24 hours. It doesn’t matter if the offender is your friend or relative. It also doesn’t matter if you need 48 hours to think about it. You have to report the person to the government within 24 hours or go to jail. You also have to assist the government in every way, including wearing a wire if needed. Refusing to cooperate would cost you at least two years in prison (possibly up to ten).   In addition to turning family member against family member, the legislation could also put many Americans into dangerous situations by forcing them to go undercover to gain evidence against strangers.
This is what we’re up against in Congress and, as I told you last week, it’s not going to be easy. Sensenbrenner, the chair of the powerful Judiciary Committee, usually gets what he wants. Lots of people are afraid to challenge him. But we have a duty to our children to stop our country from turning into a police state. I’m sure you feel this duty, as well.
Here’s what you can do:
–If you haven’t already, please e-mail your member of Congress.
–Send us your creative ideas. How can we galvanize the American people against this bill? Email us.
–If you didn’t give money last week, please give today. Even $25 goes a long way (for instance, $25 will allow 100 voters to fax their members of Congress in opposition to this bill.)
–Submit a letter-to-the-editor to your local paper urging your member of Congress to oppose the bill.
–Send this email to everyone you know. Unless tens of thousands of Americans speak up this bill could become law. It’s already passed out of subcommittee. The sponsor is now trying to line up the votes he needs to get it out of the full committee. From there it goes to the floor for a full House vote.
The provision that would turn Americans into spies is not the only thing wrong with this bill. Click here to read the full text of HR 1528 and learn more.
Sincerely,
Bill Piper
Director of National Affairs
Drug Policy Alliance

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:03:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.<

I guess I don’t doubt the assertion that they have deaths from ibogaine in Africa, but somehow seem to doubt that they’re more “vigorous” than the average non-African jane/joe, or that death at all ages is more common there than here. I mean, I don’t really know either way, but it seems to me that’s a pretty broad statement. Life might have a different value, but I’m unsure it equals “less” value than we hold it in here.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

People do die in Africa. It is viewed as due to a flaw in the
person, perhaps due to an unconfessed sin. Fang Bwiti are said take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer deaths.

The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:02:49 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the

benefit
of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that
have l! ost
loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts<

RAther rushed and busy this end of the internet, but Shelly, I
just wanted
to write and say “thank you” for posting this comment.
I wrote some more, haughty and slightly angry stuff here but
deleted it, it
isn’t important. The important part is that you hit the nail on
the head-
yes, there may very well be some risks with ibogaine, but if the
natives can
take it without doctors and heartmonitors why can’t we? I’m
curious as to
whether the natives in Gabon ever have any deaths?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I
detoxed
twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that
time ,the MD
said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I
remember
being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in
mexico,I figure
the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the
ones I
work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get
free
anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never
experienced
before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical
kinda
setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to
inquire about
another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from
ibogaine , &
that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last
detox I did
was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3
times
before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best
results
ever psychologically &am! p; spiritually, (3 months clean this
time &
counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very
mild
,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw
up at my
hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole
ends up
carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances
to
consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the
quintessential risk
taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug
just able to
cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV
insanity, so I’d
risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of

doing
ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have
easily done
that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly
elevated even,
with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those
african folks
do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely

no
disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help
others, just my
thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and
complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his
pulse and ! blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine
experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is
possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
> my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
medical
> supervision to counteract the potential side
effects
> of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
pulse
> (amo! ng other things). This is rather easy to do
with
> drugs such as Inderal and the like
> Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
pressure or pulse for that matter
> went up much at all. My mother could tell you
better than me. She’s a nurse
> practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
> and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> think this just goes to show that no two
treatments will ever be alike with
> something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
> could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
> I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
> I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
give me some time and
&g! t; > consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> was never put off by the way, everyone was very
nice and treated me with
> respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
> cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
> someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
> the treatment? It happens in the states, it
happens in Europe, and it happens in
> Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
> driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
> much more to learn about it that I have come to
the realization that! it is
> going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
> figure it out. Back to square one again.
Randy
>

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Philip K Dick
Date: May 18, 2005 at 2:25:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I’m doing a search for the NY Times Magazine article that i was
invovled in about a million years ago(can’t remember which year.  Or
who the damned interviewer was. Nice, eh?) and of all things to come
popping up was a whole link to a Philip K Dick site.
All I need now is the time travel…
luv
tink

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – low dose treatment Shelley
Date: May 18, 2005 at 2:03:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee, I agree theres nothing like the flood for spiritual lift ,but regardless , i had a great experience with the gradual ,I dont think its usually done gradualiy  for short acting opiates ,but It was intense enough anyway ,vomit & all! It was alot quicker recovery time for me . I dont know how much the hep c interplays with the whatchacallit enzyme that lets noribogaine process ,or my overall sensitivity.I do believe low dose given at intervals like I had worked the best ever.It provides another option for those unwilling to be flooded, Ive heard discussions like “how important is the flood in overall picture for a detox?” Maybe it is safer as well as youre not processing as much at one time. But keep in mind that I was treated in Mexico ,they use 13-14 mg / kg for women, which is kinda low, so I had residual withdrawal then & that enters into my overall assessment of how effective it all is . Who knows how much timing plays in as well. Interesting issues huh?I wouldnt trade my experiences with the flood for anything, but eventually the noribogaine wears off & for me, the intense spiritual aha’s wane,then ,the real work begins,for which I’m better prepared & willing to be focused on this time. The best I did was my third, which I had stayed off opiates for 48 hours ,had a very brief slip/habit ,so I was cleaner overall- now that was awesome!I’d be interested in others take on this stuff,love shell

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Shelley,

I am really curious. You say you did a low dose regiem over a number of days. Was there any reason why you didn’t do that in the first place? Is there a minimum level of dose one can take to remain effective? It seems to me that different providers work in different ways. Some give the full dose and others step dose. Spiritually the two can be quite different imo but from the point of view of addiction treatment does the step dose regiem prove any less effective than the full dose or does it depend on the level of addiction? Seems to me it can be a lot easier on the person.

Lee

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I detoxed twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that time ,the MD said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I remember being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in mexico,I figure the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the ones I work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get free anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never experienced before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical kinda setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to inquire about another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from ibogaine , & that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last detox I did was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3 times before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best results ever psychologically & spiritually, (3 months clean this time & counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very mild ,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw up at my hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole ends up carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances to consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the quintessential risk taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug just able to cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV insanity, so I’d risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of doing ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have easily done that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly elevated even, with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that have lost loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
> Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
> He took IBO in the
> evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
> to have a harder impact
> when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
> enough!) and he constantly
> felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
> of enormous blood
> pressure.
>
> He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
> night), and his pulse and
> blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
> heighten, but within normal.
> During these measurements he felt as before, and
> complained to the doctor
> all the time. When the doctor told him that his
> pulse and blood pressure
> are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
> normal. All the pressure
> was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
> physical plane – at
> all!!)
>
> He was taken back home, and had some divine
> experience afterwards ;-))
>
> This case was obviously a psychological one.
>
> I know from experience that very high pulse is
> possible; but its duration
> isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
> waves.
>
> Marko
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> > my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> > Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
> medical
> > supervision to counteract the potential side
> effects
> > of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
> pulse
> > (among other things). This is rather easy to do
> with
> > drugs such as Inderal and the like
> > Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
> pressure or pulse for that matter
> > went up much at all. My mother could tell you
> better than me. She’s a nurse
> > practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
> took my blood pressure once
> > and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
> wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> > think this just goes to show that no two
> treatments will ever be alike with
> > something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
> provider checked on me, he
> > could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
> This thing bothers me a lot.
> > I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
> and taken the treatment.
> > I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
> give me some time and
> > consideration after I cornered them at the
> conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> > was never put off by the way, everyone was very
> nice and treated me with
> > respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
> these people it was that they all
> > cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
> everyone pointing fingers at
> > someone who they know deep down was devastated by
> the death occurring during
> > the treatment? It happens in the states, it
> happens in Europe, and it happens in
> > Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
> calculated risk. So is
> > driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
> scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> > I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
> down home, but there is so
> > much more to learn about it that I have come to
> the realization that it is
> > going to take an enormous amount of money, and
> research, to ever completely
> > figure it out. Back to square one again.
> Randy
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

__________________________________
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 1:38:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well since they have seen death they are not afraid of death….its the rebirth cycle that is scary….heh…

Namaste
Matthew

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] fwd…fwd..what we become
Date: May 18, 2005 at 1:26:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cosmic Cookie

                           Consciousness is the Creative Source.
                                 We are this Consciousness.
                                We are this Creative Source.
                          Consciousness is the Enabler of Thought.
                              Thought is the Almighty Creator.

                                      The World of Man
                            is Thought converted into Activity.
                          The Universe is Expressed Consciousness.
                           Reality is the Expression of our Mind.
                                   What we see around us
                           is the Mirror Image of Mankind’s Mind.

                           WHAT WE THINK… IS… WHAT WE BECOME
Namaste
Matthew

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 1:22:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People do die in Africa. It is viewed as due to a flaw in the
person, perhaps due to an unconfessed sin. Fang Bwiti are said take
higher doses and approach the point of the heart stopping, while
the older Mitsogo Bwiti church (the tribe said to have originally
gotten it from the Pygmies) take lower doses and have fewer deaths.

The Fang are a vigorous people. Life has a different value in
Africa, in that death at all ages is more common.

On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:02:49 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the

benefit
of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that
have l! ost
loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts<

RAther rushed and busy this end of the internet, but Shelly, I
just wanted
to write and say “thank you” for posting this comment.
I wrote some more, haughty and slightly angry stuff here but
deleted it, it
isn’t important. The important part is that you hit the nail on
the head-
yes, there may very well be some risks with ibogaine, but if the
natives can
take it without doctors and heartmonitors why can’t we? I’m
curious as to
whether the natives in Gabon ever have any deaths?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I
detoxed
twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that
time ,the MD
said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I
remember
being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in
mexico,I figure
the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the
ones I
work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get
free
anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never
experienced
before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical
kinda
setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to
inquire about
another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from
ibogaine , &
that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last
detox I did
was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3
times
before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best
results
ever psychologically &am! p; spiritually, (3 months clean this
time &
counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very
mild
,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw
up at my
hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole
ends up
carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances
to
consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the
quintessential risk
taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug
just able to
cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV
insanity, so I’d
risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of

doing
ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have
easily done
that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly
elevated even,
with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those
african folks
do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely

no
disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help
others, just my
thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and
complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his
pulse and ! blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine
experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is
possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
medical
supervision to counteract the potential side
effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
pulse
(amo! ng other things). This is rather easy to do
with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
pressure or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you
better than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two
treatments will ever be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
give me some time and
&g! t; > consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very
nice and treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it
happens in Europe, and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to
the realization that! it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.
Randy

/]=—————————————————————-

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 1:02:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts<

RAther rushed and busy this end of the internet, but Shelly, I just wanted to write and say “thank you” for posting this comment.
I wrote some more, haughty and slightly angry stuff here but deleted it, it isn’t important. The important part is that you hit the nail on the head- yes, there may very well be some risks with ibogaine, but if the natives can take it without doctors and heartmonitors why can’t we? I’m curious as to whether the natives in Gabon ever have any deaths?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I detoxed twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that time ,the MD said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I remember being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in mexico,I figure the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the ones I work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get free anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never experienced before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical kinda setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to inquire about another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from ibogaine , & that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last detox I did was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3 times before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best results ever psychologically &am! p; spiritually, (3 months clean this time & counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very mild ,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw up at my hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole ends up carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances to consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the quintessential risk taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug just able to cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV insanity, so I’d risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of doing ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have easily done that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly elevated even, with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that have l! ost loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and
complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his
pulse and ! blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine
experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is
possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
> my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
medical
> supervision to counteract the potential side
effects
> of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
pulse
> (amo! ng other things). This is rather easy to do
with
> drugs such as Inderal and the like
> Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
pressure or pulse for that matter
> went up much at all. My mother could tell you
better than me. She’s a nurse
> practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
> and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> think this just goes to show that no two
treatments will ever be alike with
> something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
> could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
> I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
> I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
give me some time and
&g! t; > consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> was never put off by the way, everyone was very
nice and treated me with
> respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
> cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
> someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
> the treatment? It happens in the states, it
happens in Europe, and it happens in
> Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
> driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
> much more to learn about it that I have come to
the realization that! it is
> going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
> figure it out. Back to square one again.
Randy
>

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From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 12:13:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

I’m not sure what you mean when you say “Why is
everyone pointing fingers at someone who they know
deep down was devastated by the death occurring during

the treatment?”

I’m certainly not pointing anything at anyone.  As I
alluded to in my post yesterday I had just read
yesterday in post that referenced someone who had
passed on while using Ibo.  And as I said yesterday
… my sincere condolences go out to that persons
loved ones.  I mean that.

Other than that I was simply trying to share with the
group a pharmaceutical solution to what I perceive to
be one of Ibo’s dangerous side effects.  That’s all.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood pressure
or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you better
than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two treatments
will ever be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to give
me some time and
consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very nice
and treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it happens
in Europe, and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to the
realization that it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.       Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble – low dose treatment Shelley
Date: May 18, 2005 at 12:01:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Shelley,

I am really curious. You say you did a low dose regiem over a number of days. Was there any reason why you didn’t do that in the first place? Is there a minimum level of dose one can take to remain effective? It seems to me that different providers work in different ways. Some give the full dose and others step dose. Spiritually the two can be quite different imo but from the point of view of addiction treatment does the step dose regiem prove any less effective than the full dose or does it depend on the level of addiction? Seems to me it can be a lot easier on the person.

Lee

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I detoxed twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that time ,the MD said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I remember being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in mexico,I figure the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the ones I work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get free anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never experienced before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical kinda setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to inquire about another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from ibogaine , & that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last detox I did was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3 times before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best results ever psychologically & spiritually, (3 months clean this time & counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very mild ,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw up at my hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole ends up carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances to consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the quintessential risk taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug just able to cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV insanity, so I’d risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of doing ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have easily done that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly elevated even, with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that have lost loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
> Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
> He took IBO in the
> evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
> to have a harder impact
> when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
> enough!) and he constantly
> felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
> of enormous blood
> pressure.
>
> He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
> night), and his pulse and
> blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
> heighten, but within normal.
> During these measurements he felt as before, and
> complained to the doctor
> all the time. When the doctor told him that his
> pulse and blood pressure
> are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
> normal. All the pressure
> was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
> physical plane – at
> all!!)
>
> He was taken back home, and had some divine
> experience afterwards ;-))
>
> This case was obviously a psychological one.
>
> I know from experience that very high pulse is
> possible; but its duration
> isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
> waves.
>
> Marko
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> > my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> > Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
> medical
> > supervision to counteract the potential side
> effects
> > of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
> pulse
> > (among other things). This is rather easy to do
> with
> > drugs such as Inderal and the like
> > Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
> pressure or pulse for that matter
> > went up much at all. My mother could tell you
> better than me. She’s a nurse
> > practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
> took my blood pressure once
> > and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
> wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> > think this just goes to show that no two
> treatments will ever be alike with
> > something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
> provider checked on me, he
> > could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
> This thing bothers me a lot.
> > I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
> and taken the treatment.
> > I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
> give me some time and
> > consideration after I cornered them at the
> conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> > was never put off by the way, everyone was very
> nice and treated me with
> > respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
> these people it was that they all
> > cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
> everyone pointing fingers at
> > someone who they know deep down was devastated by
> the death occurring during
> > the treatment? It happens in the states, it
> happens in Europe, and it happens in
> > Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
> calculated risk. So is
> > driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
> scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> > I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
> down home, but there is so
> > much more to learn about it that I have come to
> the realization that it is
> > going to take an enormous amount of money, and
> research, to ever completely
> > figure it out. Back to square one again.
> Randy
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 10:30:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All,interesting discussion! Regarding the clinic in Mexico, I detoxed twice there.I remember being informed about the risks & at that time ,the MD said no deaths have occured ,perhaps that has changed ,no doubt.I remember being told very clearly that it was a research drug there in mexico,I figure the “rules” governing research drugs are kinda different then the ones I work with as a nurse here.I knew the risks, but i chose to get free anyway.They were VERY attentive & caring,like Ive never experienced before.Ive done iboga two more times since then,in non medical kinda setting, but i remember calling Randy Hencken the last time to inquire about another round ,he said youve learned about all you can from ibogaine , & that turned out to not be the case,I’m happy to say. The last detox I did was a low dose regimen over 2-3 days,since I had had the flood 3 times before I didnt feel like I was missing out,but i’ve had the best results ever psychologically & spiritually, (3 months clean this time & counting!)I did the booster a week ago & even thought it was very mild ,great results as well!! I’m reminded of how when theres a screw up at my hospital job ,the nurse ,or the person lowest on the totem pole ends up carrying the blame ,even thought there are so many circumstances to consider.I feel like I ( and probably others ) am the quintessential risk taker with my health & survival,doing highest dose of any drug just able to cheat death & thinking that was fun,not to mention the IV insanity, so I’d risk it all for ibogaine for sure.I was scared I’d be ruled out of doing ibogaine each time as I have hep c & my liver enzymes could have easily done that ,but I am blessed ,each time the enzymes were so mildly elevated even, with all the tylenol I was taking .I also wonder how all those african folks do ibogaine without the benefit of halters & cpr?I mean absolutely no disresect to those that have lost loved ones ,or that help others, just my thoughts ,love shell

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko wrote:
> Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
> He took IBO in the
> evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
> to have a harder impact
> when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
> enough!) and he constantly
> felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
> of enormous blood
> pressure.
>
> He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
> night), and his pulse and
> blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
> heighten, but within normal.
> During these measurements he felt as before, and
> complained to the doctor
> all the time. When the doctor told him that his
> pulse and blood pressure
> are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
> normal. All the pressure
> was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
> physical plane – at
> all!!)
>
> He was taken back home, and had some divine
> experience afterwards ;-))
>
> This case was obviously a psychological one.
>
> I know from experience that very high pulse is
> possible; but its duration
> isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
> waves.
>
> Marko
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> > my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
> > Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
> medical
> > supervision to counteract the potential side
> effects
> > of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
> pulse
> > (among other things). This is rather easy to do
> with
> > drugs such as Inderal and the like
> > Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
> pressure or pulse for that matter
> > went up much at all. My mother could tell you
> better than me. She’s a nurse
> > practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
> took my blood pressure once
> > and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
> wasn’t ever much of a change. I
> > think this just goes to show that no two
> treatments will ever be alike with
> > something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
> provider checked on me, he
> > could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
> This thing bothers me a lot.
> > I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
> and taken the treatment.
> > I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
> give me some time and
> > consideration after I cornered them at the
> conference, or wherever I could find them. I
> > was never put off by the way, everyone was very
> nice and treated me with
> > respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
> these people it was that they all
> > cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
> everyone pointing fingers at
> > someone who they know deep down was devastated by
> the death occurring during
> > the treatment? It happens in the states, it
> happens in Europe, and it happens in
> > Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
> calculated risk. So is
> > driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
> scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
> > I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
> down home, but there is so
> > much more to learn about it that I have come to
> the realization that it is
> > going to take an enormous amount of money, and
> research, to ever completely
> > figure it out. Back to square one again.
> Randy
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 10:26:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, something that has to be appreciated before anyone talks about heart
stuff and ibogaine is the difference between what is subjectively
experienced and what a machine hooked up to your body will tell you. My
experience is that it is pretty much normal for people taking ibo to
experience that their heart is beating faster, more powerfully, whatever.
This is one of a range of physical sensations, which usually includes
pulsings and all sorts of weird rhythms, frequently African sounding, which
come on in the body. Doesn’t mean it is actually happening in your physical
body.

The drug will crank you up to a new frequency basically. And there can be a
lot of anxiety around this process, a lot of fear. If you’re not careful it
can just go round and round in the mind and, before you know it, you’ve
convinced yourself all sorts of crazy shit is happening to you. Maybe this
fear will even create physical problems that lead to actual arhythmia or
whatever. Who knows? For sure it’s possible. You have to keep your feet on
the ground with this drug. You can still fly but you need to keep you feet
on the ground.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Marko [mailto:marko@mindvox.com]
Sent: 18 May 2005 11:36
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s. He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his pulse and blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood pressure or pulse
for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you better than me.
She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she took my blood
pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there wasn’t ever
much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two treatments will ever
be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My provider
checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig? This thing
bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects, and taken
the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to give me some time and
consideration after I cornered them at the conference, or
wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very nice and
treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of these people it
was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is everyone
pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by the death
occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it happens in Europe,
and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the scheme of
things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say down home,
but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to the realization
that it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and research, to
ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.       Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT….. Do Bears shit in the woods?
Date: May 18, 2005 at 9:13:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

J, see, ya gotta get personal don’t ya. Seems like the last time this came up you AND Steve Anker fucked with me. I just know that Steve is going to show up soon. We can hope.   Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT….. Do Bears shit in the woods?
Date: May 18, 2005 at 8:18:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Guys,

I think we need to all cool down. I understand your anger Randy and once again I apologise.

We all have different things going on here.

Its difficult all round and for my own reasons I got into a discussion that I felt needed airing. Sorry if my surprise at the facts got the better of my more diplomatic side and I did not take some of the reality into account. But maybe its a discussion that was needed?

I am really sorry for the offense caused. I think you are a great guy and I hope we meet so we can all better understand where we are coming from.

Things get screwed up on the list. It’s not a perfect medium.

We need to step back and realise we are all on the same side and we are not living in a perfect world but maybe we can do something to make things better?

Lee

Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:
Those days are kinda…………………fuzzy.

like your “research”

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
> Let me tell you, bears most definitely shit in the
> woods. At least they do in
> Catskill New York. We had one come to the house
> about 4 or 5 days ago but we
> didn’t know for sure what it was. After last night
> we know. It ate all the
> bird feeders, generally created a ruckus, and then
> took a dump right on the trail
> we walk on every day. From the looks of it it was a
> BIG bear. You know
> looking at the bears behavior it wasn’t much
> different from me on a good drunk, or
> after about 500 mgs of Tuinal or something. I don’t
> think I ever shit in
> someone’s driveway, but I can’t swear to it. Those
> days are
> kinda…………………fuzzy. Randy
>

Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 7:56:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Truth? Check for yourself. Connect to 33rd dimension, it’s there.

(Days of the New, http://sacrament.kibla.si/)

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005, Morning Wood wrote:

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko <marko@mindvox.com> wrote:
Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and
complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his
pulse and blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine
experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is
possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
medical
supervision to counteract the potential side
effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do
with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
pressure or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you
better than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two
treatments will ever be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
give me some time and
consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very
nice and treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it
happens in Europe, and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to
the realization that it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.
Randy

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__________________________________
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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] link from mindvox
Date: May 18, 2005 at 8:00:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://action.eff.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ADV_homepage

Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT….. Do Bears shit in the woods?
Date: May 18, 2005 at 7:59:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Those days are kinda…………………fuzzy.

like your “research”

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Let me tell you, bears most definitely shit in the
woods. At least they do in
Catskill New York. We had one come to the house
about 4 or 5 days ago but we
didn’t know for sure what it was. After last night
we know. It ate all the
bird feeders, generally created a ruckus, and then
took a dump right on the trail
we walk on every day. From the looks of it it was a
BIG bear. You know
looking at the bears behavior it wasn’t much
different from me on a good drunk, or
after about 500 mgs of Tuinal or something. I don’t
think I ever shit in
someone’s driveway, but I can’t swear to it. Those
days are
kinda…………………fuzzy.    Randy

Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 7:56:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m curious what you might have to say about truth, if
you find the time.

be well mr semi colon,
j

— Marko <marko@mindvox.com> wrote:
Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s.
He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems
to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong
enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode
of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the
night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit
heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and
complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his
pulse and blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to
normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the
physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine
experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is
possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in
waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under
medical
supervision to counteract the potential side
effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps)
pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do
with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood
pressure or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you
better than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she
took my blood pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there
wasn’t ever much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two
treatments will ever be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My
provider checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig?
This thing bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects,
and taken the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to
give me some time and
consideration after I cornered them at the
conference, or wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very
nice and treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of
these people it was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is
everyone pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by
the death occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it
happens in Europe, and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A
calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the
scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say
down home, but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to
the realization that it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and
research, to ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.
Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT….. Do Bears shit in the woods?
Date: May 18, 2005 at 7:54:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Let me tell you, bears most definitely shit in the woods. At least they do in Catskill New York. We had one come to the house about 4 or 5 days ago but we didn’t know for sure what it was. After last night we know. It ate all the bird feeders, generally created a ruckus, and then took a dump right on the trail we walk on every day. From the looks of it it was a BIG bear. You know looking at the bears behavior it wasn’t much different from me on a good drunk, or after about 500 mgs of Tuinal or something. I don’t think I ever shit in someone’s driveway, but I can’t swear to it. Those days are kinda…………………fuzzy.    Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] A step back – a touch of reality
Date: May 18, 2005 at 7:07:16 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

I think maybe we are losing the thread of reality here – well me at least.

There are all kinds of extenuating circumstances that none of us are aware of that don’t come out on this list.

I am sorry if my posts seem to be attacking particular people – thats not what I meant. The whole issue got me going I am afraid. The work that is being done is being done under difficult circumstances and I for one do not want to make it any more difficult than it is which is why I am truely sorry if that is the effect my posts have had. Its work which while not perfect is definitely way better than none at all.

So I realise this discussion is perhaps not having the effect I hoped it would have, i.e., it’s backfiring. For that I apologise and say sorry from the bottom of my heart to anyone who feels I undermined their good work. Indeed I apologise to anyone who has had the unfortunate experience of tragedy in treatment and did the best they could under difficult circumstances. Nobody should point a finger their way. Once again if I came across like that I deeply apologise. That was not my intention. I have to admit that while I try to be completely motivated by the best intentions there are times when I get carried away. I need to work on my ego a little more.

Unfortunately here in Europe we are out of the loop and we really do not know what is going on.

While this list is a great place for discussions it is lacking the personal contact needed to put things into a real perspective. Personally I would like to come over to the US and get more acquainted with the reality on the ground.

Once again sorry and I ask anyone who feels that things are not right to realise its not those who are providing the service that are not right but the system that has pushed them into that situation. I think we should all give 100% support to everyone doing the best they can to lift people out of their suffering. And if there are concerns to try and deal with them constructively.

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 6:35:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Years ago, I received a report from male in his 20s. He took IBO in the
evening (what I see as a mistake; every drug seems to have a harder impact
when taken at night, and IBO is already strong enough!) and he constantly
felt like his hearth and blood vessels would explode of enormous blood
pressure.

He was taken to the doctor (in the middle of the night), and his pulse and
blood pressure were measured. Both were a bit heighten, but within normal.
During these measurements he felt as before, and complained to the doctor
all the time. When the doctor told him that his pulse and blood pressure
are normal, all his perceiving of them went to normal. All the pressure
was gone in an instant (and, there was none – in the physical plane – at
all!!)

He was taken back home, and had some divine experience afterwards ;-))

This case was obviously a psychological one.

I know from experience that very high pulse is possible; but its duration
isn’t constant for hours, it comes and goes in waves.

Marko

On Wed, 18 May 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood pressure or pulse for that matter
went up much at all. My mother could tell you better than me. She’s a nurse
practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she took my blood pressure once
and checked my pulse a couple of times but there wasn’t ever much of a change. I
think this just goes to show that no two treatments will ever be alike with
something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My provider checked on me, he
could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig? This thing bothers me a lot.
I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects, and taken the treatment.
I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to give me some time and
consideration after I cornered them at the conference, or wherever I could find them. I
was never put off by the way, everyone was very nice and treated me with
respect. If I got one feeling from every one of these people it was that they all
cared very much about what they were doing. Why is everyone pointing fingers at
someone who they know deep down was devastated by the death occurring during
the treatment? It happens in the states, it happens in Europe, and it happens in
Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A calculated risk. So is
driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the scheme of things, about Ibogaine.
I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say down home, but there is so
much more to learn about it that I have come to the realization that it is
going to take an enormous amount of money, and research, to ever completely
figure it out. Back to square one again.       Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 18, 2005 at 6:29:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carlton,

First I want to apologise if I am being a dick. I don’t mean to be. Sometimes my ego gets the better of me.

There are a lot of good people involved doing amazing work.

I really do apologise and all I am trying to say is that maybe there is a need to look at this thing in another way. All i am asking is to try and maybe get a better handle on things.

Really sorry if I have come across the wrong way.

Lee

Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com> wrote:
Lee, I see what you’re saying but maybe we want to take a step back here and make sure we’re attributing the right statements to the right people.  I doubt there are any providers out there fertilizing their backyard iboga bush with the rotting corpses of dead junkies.   I just see a discussion list where a small number people are so fervent about this treatment that they’re willing to ignore or trivialize the potential risks and costs.  Fortunately, I don’t think those are the people who are in the driver’s seat… we also see some reputable providers operating as prudently as possible with the information that is known, and having some success.   (A little pricey for my tastes, but we’ve been around that block before).  No doubt there are a number who fall between the two poles.   Your point seems valid but let’s be careful not paint everyone with the same brush.
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 6:04 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s

My point is this. Its not about the number of deaths as opposed to deaths by other forms such as od, car accidents, aspirin. It’s about operating in a way that says we are with you all the way and that means we give you the whole picture before hand, we tell you the chances of survival and we note your death with dignity if it occurs. This is the human way that treats the body as a temple and respects the sanctity of the person. It’s also an out in the open way of operating that does not carry a dark shadow over it.

How does it harm anyone to LOOK at another WAY?

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “Carlton B” <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 18, 2005 at 6:12:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee, I see what you’re saying but maybe we want to take a step back here and make sure we’re attributing the right statements to the right people.  I doubt there are any providers out there fertilizing their backyard iboga bush with the rotting corpses of dead junkies.   I just see a discussion list where a small number people are so fervent about this treatment that they’re willing to ignore or trivialize the potential risks and costs.  Fortunately, I don’t think those are the people who are in the driver’s seat… we also see some reputable providers operating as prudently as possible with the information that is known, and having some success.   (A little pricey for my tastes, but we’ve been around that block before).  No doubt there are a number who fall between the two poles.   Your point seems valid but let’s be careful not paint everyone with the same brush.
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 6:04 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s

My point is this. Its not about the number of deaths as opposed to deaths by other forms such as od, car accidents, aspirin. It’s about operating in a way that says we are with you all the way and that means we give you the whole picture before hand, we tell you the chances of survival and we note your death with dignity if it occurs. This is the human way that treats the body as a temple and respects the sanctity of the person. It’s also an out in the open way of operating that does not carry a dark shadow over it.

How does it harm anyone to LOOK at another WAY?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 5:39:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/18/2005 4:32:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk sent,
Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like
Todd, I honestly don’t think that my blood pressure or pulse for that matter went up much at all. My mother could tell you better than me. She’s a nurse practitioner and saw the whole thing, I think she took my blood pressure once and checked my pulse a couple of times but there wasn’t ever much of a change. I think this just goes to show that no two treatments will ever be alike with something like Ibogaine. Too many invariables. My provider checked on me, he could tell ya, but I aint saying who he was. Dig? This thing bothers me a lot. I’ve immersed myself in Ibogaine and it’s effects, and taken the treatment. I’ve talked to everyone who was nice enough to give me some time and consideration after I cornered them at the conference, or wherever I could find them. I was never put off by the way, everyone was very nice and treated me with respect. If I got one feeling from every one of these people it was that they all cared very much about what they were doing. Why is everyone pointing fingers at someone who they know deep down was devastated by the death occurring during the treatment? It happens in the states, it happens in Europe, and it happens in Africa. Clinical setting or not, it is a risk. A calculated risk. So is driving a car. I don’t know shit, really, in the scheme of things, about Ibogaine. I’ve studied on it good, long, and hard, as we say down home, but there is so much more to learn about it that I have come to the realization that it is going to take an enormous amount of money, and research, to ever completely figure it out. Back to square one again.       Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 18, 2005 at 5:04:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The question I am asking myself is this: is the one dose system simply asking too much of ibogaine? Maybe its not meant to be used that way?

Long term low dose use in a “normal” adult I believe offers very little risk and amazing benefits. Even a high dose in a “normal” person under the proper circumstances is low risk. But the way it is being administered for chronic addiction is like fighting a bush fire. You win some, you lose some. God help us that the situation is so desperate that it has to be this way – its like a war but at least in a war the soldier is pronounced dead and given a proper burial. Also clinics working off a long term rehabilitation program might not find it profitable to exist. Anyway, low dose treatments I believe could be carried out as an out-patient program in conjunction with an adviser – i.e. a knowledgeable provider.

Perhaps a proper program that is monitored over a year of low-dose therapy prior to full dose could be implemented giving the person time to rebuild their health as well as lower the effects of a subsequent high dose as repeated use of ibogaine leads to a lowering of its harmful effects in my experience. Maybe that is not practical to someone in a dire situation ………………..

Don’t get me wrong. i think everyone has a right to chose and if a high dose were my only choice I would probably make the same choice.

My point is this. Its not about the number of deaths as opposed to deaths by other forms such as od, car accidents, aspirin. It’s about operating in a way that says we are with you all the way and that means we give you the whole picture before hand, we tell you the chances of survival and we note your death with dignity if it occurs. This is the human way that treats the body as a temple and respects the sanctity of the person. It’s also an out in the open way of operating that does not carry a dark shadow over it.

How does it harm anyone to LOOK at another WAY?

As Nick said acting in subterfuge is not doing anyone any good imo and also feeds into a very murky modus operandus imo which is open to abuse by the unscrupulous and there are unscrupulous people out there who are hiding under the fear of the rest of the movement who want to keep the facts hidden – thats how these things happen. There is no regulation that separates the good from the bad. Have we no right to ask for an improvement in standards or should we all shut up and do what we are told by the self appointed?

On a note: much respect to all those out there putting themselves at risk to give treatments in the best way they know how. I have a lot of respect and love for you guys.

Lee

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>How many dead bodies are there from
heroin and crack, lot more.<

Or as previously noted, Rapid Detox, or from getting raped and murdered in
prison for taking/buying/selling drugs in the first place, or being shot by
cops arresting you/your dealer/your innocent neighbor during an “oops, wrong
house drug raid,” or from taking some legal drug, like Aspirin, that they
unknowingly have an allergy to, or…ummm, well, this list could probably go
on a long time.
For some people to get angry because a very few people have died after
taking ibogaine is to me really ridiculous, considering the current
dangerous, ant-drug hysteria we live under these days.
BTW, I called NYC’s Stop Smoking hotline (311) and got a big box of free
nicotine patches the other day, and plan on beginning soon, tomorrow morning
most probably, with putting them on me instead of lighting up first thing in
the morning. Wish me luck please.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes”
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s

>
> This is a weird attitude to have, that someone who
> spends more then 2 years of their time making a film
> which I’m sure cost a lot of money is obligated to
> give it away to you for free and then you can steal
> more copies of it and give them away.
>
> I haven’t seen the film yet and did complain about the
> old website not having any place to order, but thats
> got nothing to do with someone making a film and you
> feeling they owe you something. what do you do except
> post mp3s of belching and throwing up noises.
>
> So there are dead bodies, whatev happened at mexico is
> their problem and if they choose to handle it by
> pretending it didn’t happen then what does that prove
> except ibogaine with doctors isn’t any safer then the
> underground. How many dead bodies are there from
> heroin and crack, lot more. I think anyone who is
> going to take ibogaine has the right to know the risks
> but then its their choice and I dont think anyone has
> ever said its perfectly safe, every ibogaine article
> i’ve ever read online always comes with warnings. I
> know when I did it I was desperate, so i can die, so
> what, how’s that different then my life every day was
> as a junkie?
>
> Carla B
>
> — Morning Wood wrote:
>> if public relations is really the concern, it would
>> be availible on-line at no cost.
>>
>> if you want me to show it to doctors, send me a
>> copy,
>> and I will
>> burn lots of copies and give them away.
>>
>>
>> if public relations is really the concern, in the
>> interest of making ibogaine or it’s derivitives
>> availible to the people who need them (which is
>> obviouslly a worthy goal)
>>
>> just thoughts.
>>
>>
>> — BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>> > Tink, I think we should all be showing our DR’s
>> the
>> > movie Ben shot, and
>> > giving them all the info we can get. We get enough
>> > of those guys behind us it might
>> > make a difference in how Ibogaine is scheduled.
>> Who
>> > knows? Couldn’t hoit.”
>> > Meanwhile I’m floating nicely at home in the
>> > Catskills. Thanx for askin.’
>> > Randy
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
>> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
>> mobile phone.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 4:24:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my experience these effects decrease significantly with repeated use. Hence a regiem of low dose therapy can have safety effects for the subsequent higher doses imo. Lee

Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pardon me, but I didn’t see the post or read about the
poor chap that passed.

My sincere condolences

I will say that (some) of the harmful effects of Ibo,
namely the heart tachycardia and extremely high blood
pressure associated with an Ibo experience can be
ameliorated with the right supervision and medication.

Personally, I had a very pleasant physical supervisor.
And I will say that I had done my due diligence and I
knew the risks and dangers that Ibo posed for a guy
like me and I had prepared myself for the experience
both mentally and pharmacologically.

Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like.

I’m no physician.

Please research and seek for thy self.

Best

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

> I have an observation here. The death that occurred
> that brought on this
> conversation happened in almost real time right on
> this list. Matter of fact there
> have been a couple of treatments happen and the list
> get a play by play.
> These all happened in the US where it is illegal. I
> don’t see that happening from
> anywhere else. So I’m assuming that you all are
> talking about what has been
> talked about here before. I read about the death in
> a clinical setting before I
> did my treatment. I read about the body in LA, and a
> couple of deaths in
> Europe, questionable exactly what happened. This is
> not new. The problem is the
> resistance we are getting to a treatment that is no
> game, taxing to the body, and
> should be done under the safest conditions possible,
> but works for some like
> nothing else. Some. If you could make a weapon from
> Ibogaine we would have all
> the facts we need and this conversation would be
> mute. Know what I mean Vern?
> The problem is Ibogaine’s legitimacy to the medical
> community. This should be
> an option to be discussed with your DR. for sure. We
> don’t have that option.
> Back to square one again. I know I had waited long
> enough to get my treatment.
> Randy
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] crystal clear for carla
Date: May 18, 2005 at 4:08:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

let me be very clear about something:

no body owes me anything.

and

I don’t owe anybody anything.

carla, you are still my favorite ibo yenta.

-jason

Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 3:25:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Kirk,

thanks, yes sure, not all is bad! not all people are bad,my client from
last year who was shooting speedballs, is clean 11 months and expecting a
baby soon, sure there are wonderful people and things too,
but hiding the truth is a bad thing to do!
if that lady who died called me to say she didn’t have a good recovery place
I would have helped her, but she wanted to be with her friend at the
homeless shelter. when she left the house I knew she wasn’t going to make
it, because she was too confused, where to go and what to do?
I told her she could stay longer but she didn’t want to, she was clean when
she left and was going to take care of her stuff, and if there was any
problem she was supposed to call me. but she didn’t, because she didn’t
get the money together for the treatment.she was an addict from age of 13
and became 34 years old, which is a miracle that she was still alive then.
she noded out on a burning heater when it was winter, her back was burned
black, then she knew she had to stop using, there was no recovering place
for her and for so many others.

Sara

Hugs 2 You Sara
May your cynicism find it’s peace.
It’s not all bad, we’re not all bad, I refuse to think that.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: sara119@xs4all.nl [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 6:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Ethical ? not when money counts first.
if that clinic in Mexico had treated 350 people how come no one person
is around here to speak up about their experience?
I’m still waiting for plenty of people to pay me back for treatment done
5 years ago until last month.it just shows you what humans are like,people
are here to get 99% of the times, not to give 1% back. not with knowledge
, not with care, not with their promisses,or anything else. so when
humanity is so F**** most people would think who gives a shjt about few
dead bodies, there is nothing to get
there, is it?  and also they would think I rather do it cheap and take 80%
more risk of dying, but if I will stay alive then I can spend it on…
other shjt.
money speaks in all kinds of ways. you can give Donation to an
organization and lie to them but they will not say a thing about the well
known truth and publish those lies,so
they may get some more Donations next year. you can just let people hear
what they want to hear, write it on the internet and make it easier for
people who can’t think for themselves. make them think the jacuzzi and the
TV will give them a better feeling, when the truth is shjt.

and since people are just a piece of shjt most of the times, you’ll never
get to know the truth. what is the use to go to a conference and hear
lies?
sure, you can make a manipulated reseach just to show what you think is
right in your eyes, to blow up the ego.as if anything else is not
right,HUH?
“my way is the only way” even when they never experience “MY WAY” they
would convince everyone they know Better, they got the PHd after all;-)
they will not tell you take chamomille tea, they will tell you take
white pill that’s the best you can do, the reseach even proved it.

anyways, my client lady died last weekend from over dose is a homeless
shelter in Amsterdam, where I have told her many time , not to go to.
she took a treatment 4 weeks before because she didn’t have anywhere to
go.
that was the second time she didn’t pay a cent for staying almost two
weeks
at my home, not that I’m rich or anything like it, but she promissed to
pay back a week later. then she didn’t call until someone else called to
say she was found dead.
so thanks very much for the info. I believe things only when I see them
with my own eyes. and the rest is just BLA BLA BLA…

so I’m done here, have a happy day!

Sara

You would need to ask the people who had deaths, I didn’t know there
were more deaths much less this many.

It is a little strange, I haven’t looked at any of the sites in a long
time but Randy Hencken did vanish, there is no mention of him at all on
Mexico’s site.

http://www.detoxnaturally.com

His job is now being done by someone named Nathan.

You look up Randy on the internet and he was the person who took in all
the patients

http://www.google.com/search?q=randy+hencken

He used to post here all the time I thought he was busy but he does
look like he was removed not like he moved on to something else but
like he never existed at Mexico at all.

How do you plan to give a seminar when the people who supposedly know
aren’t saying anything, what’s the title of it, ‘there are more
ibogaine deaths we think’. Who, what person, when?

It doesn’t look like it’s much news to people posting to this list
either, I guess a lot of people do know. Including MAPS who posts that
they’re working with the clinic and then the clinic closed, when it’s
not closed.

http://www.maps.org/ibogaine

Everybody lied and covered something up. So much for ethical
psychedelic research.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement
that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a
little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high
risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may
one day erupt and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior

to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their
own risks and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference)
on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open

including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they
don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of
not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted
anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it.
right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers,

lots of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to
everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I
quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in
writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the
Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a

new site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine
Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and

then he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more
money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay
someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick
on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people

who all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told
to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not

much of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on
where to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very >
informative .I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People
have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever
wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings
in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have

heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure

FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over

a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 2:51:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hugs 2 You Sara
May your cynicism find it’s peace.
It’s not all bad, we’re not all bad, I refuse to think that.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: sara119@xs4all.nl [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 6:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

Ethical ? not when money counts first.
if that clinic in Mexico had treated 350 people how come no one person
is around here to speak up about their experience?
I’m still waiting for plenty of people to pay me back for treatment done
5 years ago until last month.it just shows you what humans are like,people
are here to get 99% of the times, not to give 1% back. not with knowledge
, not with care, not with their promisses,or anything else. so when
humanity is so F**** most people would think who gives a shjt about few
dead bodies, there is nothing to get
there, is it?  and also they would think I rather do it cheap and take 80%
more risk of dying, but if I will stay alive then I can spend it on…
other shjt.
money speaks in all kinds of ways. you can give Donation to an
organization and lie to them but they will not say a thing about the well
known truth and publish those lies,so
they may get some more Donations next year. you can just let people hear
what they want to hear, write it on the internet and make it easier for
people who can’t think for themselves. make them think the jacuzzi and the
TV will give them a better feeling, when the truth is shjt.

and since people are just a piece of shjt most of the times, you’ll never
get to know the truth. what is the use to go to a conference and hear
lies?
sure, you can make a manipulated reseach just to show what you think is
right in your eyes, to blow up the ego.as if anything else is not
right,HUH?
“my way is the only way” even when they never experience “MY WAY” they
would convince everyone they know Better, they got the PHd after all;-)
they will not tell you take chamomille tea, they will tell you take
white pill that’s the best you can do, the reseach even proved it.

anyways, my client lady died last weekend from over dose is a homeless
shelter in Amsterdam, where I have told her many time , not to go to.
she took a treatment 4 weeks before because she didn’t have anywhere to go.
that was the second time she didn’t pay a cent for staying almost two weeks
at my home, not that I’m rich or anything like it, but she promissed to
pay back a week later. then she didn’t call until someone else called to
say she was found dead.
so thanks very much for the info. I believe things only when I see them
with my own eyes. and the rest is just BLA BLA BLA…

so I’m done here, have a happy day!

Sara

You would need to ask the people who had deaths, I didn’t know there
were more deaths much less this many.

It is a little strange, I haven’t looked at any of the sites in a long
time but Randy Hencken did vanish, there is no mention of him at all on
Mexico’s site.

http://www.detoxnaturally.com

His job is now being done by someone named Nathan.

You look up Randy on the internet and he was the person who took in all
the patients

http://www.google.com/search?q=randy+hencken

He used to post here all the time I thought he was busy but he does
look like he was removed not like he moved on to something else but
like he never existed at Mexico at all.

How do you plan to give a seminar when the people who supposedly know
aren’t saying anything, what’s the title of it, ‘there are more
ibogaine deaths we think’. Who, what person, when?

It doesn’t look like it’s much news to people posting to this list
either, I guess a lot of people do know. Including MAPS who posts that
they’re working with the clinic and then the clinic closed, when it’s
not closed.

http://www.maps.org/ibogaine

Everybody lied and covered something up. So much for ethical
psychedelic research.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement
that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a
little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high
risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may
one day erupt and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior

to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their
own risks and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference)
on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open

including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they
don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of
not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted
anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it.
right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers,

lots of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to
everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I
quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in
writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the
Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a

new site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine
Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and

then he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more
money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay
someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick
on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people

who all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told
to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not

much of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on
where to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very >
informative .I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People
have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever
wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings
in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have

heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure

FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
/]

=———————————————————————

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The most personalized portal on the Web!

/]

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=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over

a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 18, 2005 at 2:18:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ethical ? not when money counts first.
if that clinic in Mexico had treated 350 people how come no one person
is around here to speak up about their experience?
I’m still waiting for plenty of people to pay me back for treatment done
5 years ago until last month.it just shows you what humans are like,people
are here to get 99% of the times, not to give 1% back. not with knowledge
, not with care, not with their promisses,or anything else. so when
humanity is so F**** most people would think who gives a shjt about few
dead bodies, there is nothing to get
there, is it?  and also they would think I rather do it cheap and take 80%
more risk of dying, but if I will stay alive then I can spend it on…
other shjt.
money speaks in all kinds of ways. you can give Donation to an
organization and lie to them but they will not say a thing about the well
known truth and publish those lies,so
they may get some more Donations next year. you can just let people hear
what they want to hear, write it on the internet and make it easier for
people who can’t think for themselves. make them think the jacuzzi and the
TV will give them a better feeling, when the truth is shjt.

and since people are just a piece of shjt most of the times, you’ll never
get to know the truth. what is the use to go to a conference and hear
lies?
sure, you can make a manipulated reseach just to show what you think is
right in your eyes, to blow up the ego.as if anything else is not
right,HUH?
“my way is the only way” even when they never experience “MY WAY” they
would convince everyone they know Better, they got the PHd after all;-)
they will not tell you take chamomille tea, they will tell you take
white pill that’s the best you can do, the reseach even proved it.

anyways, my client lady died last weekend from over dose is a homeless
shelter in Amsterdam, where I have told her many time , not to go to.
she took a treatment 4 weeks before because she didn’t have anywhere to go.
that was the second time she didn’t pay a cent for staying almost two weeks
at my home, not that I’m rich or anything like it, but she promissed to
pay back a week later. then she didn’t call until someone else called to
say she was found dead.
so thanks very much for the info. I believe things only when I see them
with my own eyes. and the rest is just BLA BLA BLA…

so I’m done here, have a happy day!

Sara

You would need to ask the people who had deaths, I didn’t know there
were more deaths much less this many.

It is a little strange, I haven’t looked at any of the sites in a long
time but Randy Hencken did vanish, there is no mention of him at all on
Mexico’s site.

http://www.detoxnaturally.com

His job is now being done by someone named Nathan.

You look up Randy on the internet and he was the person who took in all
the patients

http://www.google.com/search?q=randy+hencken

He used to post here all the time I thought he was busy but he does
look like he was removed not like he moved on to something else but
like he never existed at Mexico at all.

How do you plan to give a seminar when the people who supposedly know
aren’t saying anything, what’s the title of it, ‘there are more
ibogaine deaths we think’. Who, what person, when?

It doesn’t look like it’s much news to people posting to this list
either, I guess a lot of people do know. Including MAPS who posts that
they’re working with the clinic and then the clinic closed, when it’s
not closed.

http://www.maps.org/ibogaine

Everybody lied and covered something up. So much for ethical
psychedelic research.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement
that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a
little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high
risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may
one day erupt and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior

to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their
own risks and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference)
on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open

including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they
don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of
not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted
anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it.
right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers,

lots of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to
everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I
quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in
writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the
Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a

new site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine
Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and

then he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more
money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay
someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick
on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people

who all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told
to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not

much of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on
where to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very >
informative .I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People
have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever
wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings
in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have

heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure

FREE
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over

a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanks to you all
Date: May 17, 2005 at 10:04:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Me too, I agree with this.

I’ve heard different stories so many times, how does anyone know what
happened or didn’t happen. The deaths in clinical settings I’ve heard
about too but all the stories are different.

I think it would be nice if people were honest but I don’t think a
clinic is required to report what goes wrong to the ibogaine
community, I think a lot of places using ibogaine to detox are using
ibogaine to detox and aren’t part of any community except selling it
to people who want to buy it.

The only ibogaine community I’ve ever found is this one, where most
people are at least trying to help.

KV

On 5/17/05, Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk@kol.co.nz> wrote:

A big huge thanks to all of you who are currently debating and trying your
damndest to nut this out.

It’s people like me who benefit, and without people like you willing to give
up your time and knowledge etc, then I would remain in the dark.

So, once again, I thank you all.

A minutes silence to those who have passed thru Ibogaine use, lets ensure
they didn’t die for nothing.

Kia Kaha

Kirk

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanks to you all
Date: May 17, 2005 at 9:43:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 5/17/05, Kirsty Sutherland <captkirk@kol.co.nz> wrote:

A big huge thanks to all of you who are currently debating and trying your
damndest to nut this out.

It’s people like me who benefit, and without people like you willing to give
up your time and knowledge etc, then I would remain in the dark.

So, once again, I thank you all.

A minutes silence to those who have passed thru Ibogaine use, lets ensure
they didn’t die for nothing.

Kia Kaha

Kirk

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thanks to you all
Date: May 17, 2005 at 9:33:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A big huge thanks to all of you who are currently debating and trying your damndest to nut this out.
It’s people like me who benefit, and without people like you willing to give up your time and knowledge etc, then I would remain in the dark.

So, once again, I thank you all.
A minutes silence to those who have passed thru Ibogaine use, lets ensure they didn’t die for nothing.
Kia Kaha
Kirk

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….
Date: May 17, 2005 at 9:28:37 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahhh, normal, I know what that was like and I do want it again.
My imbalance is hormonal (as in estrogen etc) and I’ve been doing some
research on the net about it (ahh dog bless the net aye?) Seems there’s a
bunch of chemicals in certain products that contain estrogen mimicking
stuff, and thus why a lot of women get out of whack (more to it I’m sure,
but certainly not helping..) so I’m currently looking into a natural
progesterone cream to balance (and remove cyst from boob..) but I was
surprised to read that if I got “too happy” to reduce amount of cream being
used daily.  COOL!! I can get too happy??????????? LOL
Juss kidding.. I know what manic happiness is, there’s always a crash from
it…
Low dosing ibogaine is starting to sound pretty good…. specially if it can
also help with balancing system.
Thanks Msssss Tinky winky!! :o)
Koiky Woiky

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 5:58 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….

Mr friend just brought up an excellent question that I couldn’t
answer, and i was hoping one of you might have some info:
If you have a chemical imbalance before you do ibogaine, and if the
low dose of suboxone you’re taking works well as an anti-depressant,
is the reset going to put you back to depression, or will it do
anything to help reset the imbalance you started out with?
Do you go back to your own personal normal or is it what we all wish
waas normal?
Thank you thank you thank you!
tink-in-hell and Vyvky

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 17, 2005 at 8:44:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How many dead bodies are there from
heroin and crack, lot more.<

Or as previously noted, Rapid Detox, or from getting raped and murdered in prison for taking/buying/selling drugs in the first place, or being shot by cops arresting you/your dealer/your innocent neighbor during an “oops, wrong house drug raid,” or from taking some legal drug, like Aspirin, that they unknowingly have an allergy to, or…ummm, well, this list could probably go on a long time.
For some people to get angry because a very few people have died after taking ibogaine is to me really ridiculous, considering the current dangerous, ant-drug hysteria we live under these days.
BTW, I called NYC’s Stop Smoking hotline (311) and got a big box of free nicotine patches the other day, and plan on beginning soon, tomorrow morning most probably, with putting them on me instead of lighting up first thing in the morning. Wish me luck please.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s

This is a weird attitude to have, that someone who
spends more then 2 years of their time making a film
which I’m sure cost a lot of money is obligated to
give it away to you for free and then you can steal
more copies of it and give them away.

I haven’t seen the film yet and did complain about the
old website not having any place to order, but thats
got nothing to do with someone making a film and you
feeling they owe you something. what do you do except
post mp3s of belching and throwing up noises.

So there are dead bodies, whatev happened at mexico is
their problem and if they choose to handle it by
pretending it didn’t happen then what does that prove
except ibogaine with doctors isn’t any safer then the
underground. How many dead bodies are there from
heroin and crack, lot more. I think anyone who is
going to take ibogaine has the right to know the risks
but then its their choice and I dont think anyone has
ever said its perfectly safe, every ibogaine article
i’ve ever read online always comes with warnings. I
know when I did it I was desperate, so i can die, so
what, how’s that different then my life every day was
as a junkie?

Carla B

— Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:
if public relations is really the  concern, it would
be availible on-line at no cost.

if you want me to show it to doctors, send me a
copy,
and I will
burn lots of copies and give them away.

if public relations is really the concern, in the
interest of making ibogaine or it’s derivitives
availible to the people who need them (which is
obviouslly a worthy goal)

just thoughts.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
> Tink, I think we should all be showing our DR’s
the
> movie Ben shot, and
> giving them all the info we can get. We get enough
> of those guys behind us it might
> make a difference in how Ibogaine is scheduled.
Who
> knows? Couldn’t hoit.”
> Meanwhile I’m floating nicely at home in the
> Catskills. Thanx for askin.’
>  Randy
>

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 17, 2005 at 8:25:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please count me in in this wasteland of the bible belt. ron, or what’s left of him.  peaceful path to all, including me
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’

Thanks Randy ,do you know if it is now available?,fondly shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/26/2005 1:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, daluna@mindvox.com writes:

Dear People of the List,

I just wanted to inform you about the following;

As the dollar is so low in comparison with the euro, I have been looking
for
a way to be able to offer the DVD’s of Ibogaine – Rite of Passage for a
better price for non-euro countries. We found a way to not pay tax on it,
so
the price we can offer the DVD’s for will be 16.99 euro’s. Sending costs
will still be 3 euro’s.

I hope to have the website up by next week, on which the Paypal shopping
cart will be functional. As soon as that’s done, you will receive a
newsletter.

Best Regards,

Ben De Loenen
Director/Producer

Op 21/4/2005 schreef “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>:

>
>Dear people of the Ibogaine list,
>
>I am the director/producer of the Ibogaine documentary. THe current
>website of LunArt Productions is a big disaster, indeed. It’s not
>clear, no screenshots, no real online shop,… As I am totally not
>familiar with webdesign, I really chose the wrong webdesigner for this
>job in the first place. So at the moment I have another webdesigner,
>who’s really good and building a much more extendid, easy-to-use and
>complete website system and Paypal will be functional on this website.
>For this kind of website, I had to change server and move the domain,
>which I hope will be done in the next few days, so everything can be
>uploaded. Also next to the LunArt Productions site, there will be a
>website www.ibogainefilm.com, solely on the Ibogaine documentary,
>that’s linked to it. One thing is clear, all this webstuff makes me
>crazy! But very, very soon (and I’ve been saying this to people that
>sent me an ‘order video’ form before, but due to the whole
>reorganizing it didn’t work out), I will post another mail on this
>forum to tell everybody it’s FINALLY working.
>
>As for the DVD, the price is 20 euro’s and sending costs are 3 euro’s
>for sending it basically to the whole world. The DVD features subtitles
>in 5 languages (English, Spanish, French, Dutch and German), a surround
>theather and a stereo TV mix of the soundtrack, the trailer, info pages
>on the treatment centres that cooperated, organizations involved,…
>
>If there are people that wish to be added to the LunArt Productions
>mailing list, to be kept updated on future screenings and broadcast of
>the film and new projects, please send a message to
>info@lunartproductions.com. To be clear; I don’t give your email
>addresses to 3th parties or use them for other purposes and if you like
>to unsubscribe afterwards, you just send another message to ask it.
>All this info and much more will be on www.lunArtproductions.com soon…
>Thanks for the interest in, and appreciation of this 2,5 year project.
>
>Peace,
>
>Ben De Loenen
>
>PS: Preston, thanx for the kind words…
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Op 17/4/2005 schreef “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>:
>
>>It is an AWESOME video, the one by Ben de Loenen- I watched it as soon as I
>>could crawl from the bed to my x-box and put it in yesterday. Really was a
>>perfect video for me and V to watch after that travail.
>>
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston
>>
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>>mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>—– Original Message —–
>>From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:04 PM
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine video and good luck preston!!! and marc!
>>
>>
>>> Hi again Marc and good luck this time!
>>>
>>> Preston!!! sending you good energy!
>>>
>>> — mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Patrick, your comment on the Ibo DVD  when you
>>>> say that if you take it more than three times then
>>>> the problem is with you” well all I can say to that
>>>> is that of course the problem is with us which is
>>>> why we are all here in the first place. Iboga is a
>>>> tool nothing more. It gives you a chance to work
>>>> things out. Like Randy H. so eliquently put it, a
>>>> window. After that its up to us.
>>>
>>> That’s too funny 🙂 That’s one of the Dr. Mash quotes
>>> in every interview she’s ever done in the last 5 years
>>> 😉
>>>
>>> Where do I order the ibogaine video??? People come
>>> here and talk about seeing screenings or buying it
>>> somewhere but there is nothing at all on the website.
>>> No price, no way to pay. Nothing nothing nothing!
>>>
>>> Am I blind and missing it? All I can find is this
>>>
>>> http://lunartproductions.com/html/order.htm
>>>
>>> There is no price, no way to input a real order, there
>>> is only a email form. Is it still not released??
>>>
>>> Carla B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> Make Yahoo! your home page
>>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 7:38:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pardon me, but I didn’t see the post or read about the
poor chap that passed.

My sincere condolences

I will say that (some) of the harmful effects of Ibo,
namely the heart tachycardia and extremely high blood
pressure associated with an Ibo experience can be
ameliorated with the right supervision and medication.

Personally, I had a very pleasant physical supervisor.
And I will say that I had done my due diligence and I
knew the risks and dangers that Ibo posed for a guy
like me and I had prepared myself for the experience
both mentally and pharmacologically.

Honestly (IMO), Ibo needs to be taken under medical
supervision to counteract the potential side effects
of an eight to twelve hour prolonged 170 (bps) pulse
(among other things). This is rather easy to do with
drugs such as Inderal and the like.

I’m no physician.

Please research and seek for thy self.

Best

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

I have an observation here. The death that occurred
that brought on this
conversation happened in almost real time right on
this list. Matter of fact there
have been a couple of treatments happen and the list
get a play by play.
These all happened in the US where it is illegal. I
don’t see that happening from
anywhere else. So I’m assuming that you all are
talking about what has been
talked about here before. I read about the death in
a clinical setting before I
did my treatment. I read about the body in LA, and a
couple of deaths in
Europe, questionable exactly what happened. This is
not new. The problem is the
resistance we are getting to a treatment that is no
game, taxing to the body, and
should be done under the safest conditions possible,
but works for some like
nothing else. Some. If you could make a weapon from
Ibogaine we would have all
the facts we need and this conversation would be
mute. Know what I mean Vern?
The problem is Ibogaine’s legitimacy to the medical
community. This should be
an option to be discussed with your DR. for sure. We
don’t have that option.
Back to square one again. I know I had waited long
enough to get my treatment.
Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 7:22:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it all just sux

On 5/17/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
I have an observation here. The death that occurred that brought on this
conversation happened in almost real time right on this list. Matter of fact
there have been a couple of treatments happen and the list get a play by
play. These all happened in the US where it is illegal. I don’t see that
happening from anywhere else. So I’m assuming that you all are talking about
what has been talked about here before. I read about the death in a clinical
setting before I did my treatment. I read about the body in LA, and a couple
of deaths in Europe, questionable exactly what happened. This is not new.
The problem is the resistance we are getting to a treatment that is no game,
taxing to the body, and should be done under the safest conditions possible,
but works for some like nothing else. Some. If you could make a weapon from
Ibogaine we would have all the facts we need and this conversation would be
mute. Know what I mean Vern? The problem is Ibogaine’s legitimacy to the
medical community. This should be an option to be discussed with your DR.
for sure. We don’t have that option. Back to square one again. I know I had
waited long enough to get my treatment.          Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 6:55:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have an observation here. The death that occurred that brought on this conversation happened in almost real time right on this list. Matter of fact there have been a couple of treatments happen and the list get a play by play. These all happened in the US where it is illegal. I don’t see that happening from anywhere else. So I’m assuming that you all are talking about what has been talked about here before. I read about the death in a clinical setting before I did my treatment. I read about the body in LA, and a couple of deaths in Europe, questionable exactly what happened. This is not new. The problem is the resistance we are getting to a treatment that is no game, taxing to the body, and should be done under the safest conditions possible, but works for some like nothing else. Some. If you could make a weapon from Ibogaine we would have all the facts we need and this conversation would be mute. Know what I mean Vern? The problem is Ibogaine’s legitimacy to the medical community. This should be an option to be discussed with your DR. for sure. We don’t have that option. Back to square one again. I know I had waited long enough to get my treatment.          Randy

From: “Gary Press” <gary@bluemooncapital.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] HEART PROBLEMS
Date: May 17, 2005 at 5:41:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

READ ALL THE MEDICAL INFO, THATS WHY THEY(THE MD’S) TELL YOU TO GET LABS ,ECHO DOBBLERS , 24 HR HALTERS BEFOR YOU DO THE IBO. ITS FOR OUR BENEFIT NOT ONLY THEIR’S.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 5:03:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here, here! I think the people keeping these secrets need to take more ibogaine and discover the light within. Then maybe they will know what they are actually dealing with. Lee

Nick wrote:

The basic action of ibogaine psychologically is to attempt to reveal a
person’s deeper truth to them. To keep a lot of secrets about this drug is
just a big fear trip at the end of the day and to me it’s totally delusional
to believe this can assist ibogaine’s emergence into our world. If it
happens, good or bad, it should be revealed. That’s my position.

Nick

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Personally, I only know about the six recorded ibogaine-related deaths – all
around non-clinical settings I believe. But I strongly believe it’s pure
bullshit to withhold information about ibogaine related fatalities. I don’t
care about the excuses for not revealing – that it’s counter-productive to
the drug’s development; that there are so many people that die from heroin
or methadone that ibogaine is needed and this justifies not telling; that
there’s no total proof ibogaine caused the death; whatever. That’s all
bullshit to me. (That said, I will still keep confidences if I’m told
something on the premise I don’t publish it. I wouldn’t break my word.)

The basic action of ibogaine psychologically is to attempt to reveal a
person’s deeper truth to them. To keep a lot of secrets about this drug is
just a big fear trip at the end of the day and to me it’s totally delusional
to believe this can assist ibogaine’s emergence into our world. If it
happens, good or bad, it should be revealed. That’s my position.

Nick

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
> Sent: 17 May 2005 21:14
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
>
>
>
> You would need to ask the people who had deaths, I didn’t know there
> were more deaths much less this many.
>
> It is a little strange, I haven’t looked at any of the sites in a long
> time but Randy Hencken did vanish, there is no mention of him at all on
> Mexico’s site.
>
> http://www.detoxnaturally.com
>
> His job is now being done by someone named Nathan.
>
> You look up Randy on the internet and he was the person who took in all
> the patients
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=randy+hencken
>
> He used to post here all the time I thought he was busy but he does
> look like he was removed not like he moved on to something else but
> like he never existed at Mexico at all.
>
> How do you plan to give a seminar when the people who supposedly know
> aren’t saying anything, what’s the title of it, ‘there are more
> ibogaine deaths we think’. Who, what person, when?
>
> It doesn’t look like it’s much news to people posting to this list
> either, I guess a lot of people do know. Including MAPS who posts that
> they’re working with the clinic and then the clinic closed, when it’s
> not closed.
>
> http://www.maps.org/ibogaine
>
> Everybody lied and covered something up. So much for ethical
> psychedelic research.
>
> .:vector:.
>
> — Lee Albert wrote:
>
> > How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement
> > that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a
> > little sick?
> >
> > A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high
> > risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may
> > one day erupt and screw us all.
> >
> > I would not want that on my conscience.
> >
> > If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior
> >
> > to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their
> > own risks and the death has been properly recorded.
> >
> > I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference)
> > on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open
> >
> > including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
> > treatments.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they
> > don’t care.
> >
> > but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of
> > not
> > listening to their bodies, begging stop!
> > thanks for letting me know!
> >
> > Sara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted
> > anywhere
> > > but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it.
> > right
> > > howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers,
> >
> > lots of
> > > the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to
> > everybody
> > > knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I
> > quote
> > > from MAPS.
> > >
> > > January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
> > > selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in
> > writing
> > > grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
> > > detoxification services to 20 people.
> > >
> > > January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the
> > Ibogaine
> > > Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a
> >
> > new site
> > > to restart data collection
> > >
> > > January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine
> > Association
> > >
> > > In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
> > > archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.
> > >
> > > The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and
> >
> > then he
> > > didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more
> > money.
> > >
> > > if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay
> > someone
> > > to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick
> > on
> > > patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people
> >
> > who all
> > > think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told
> > to the
> > > media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not
> >
> > much of
> > > a secret.
> > >
> > > — On Tue 05/17, wrote:
> > > From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
> > > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > > Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
> > >
> > >> — shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on
> > where to
> > >> find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very >
> > informative .I
> > >> did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People
> > have died
> > >> even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever
> > wrote
> > >> this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings
> > in
> > >> connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have
> >
> > heard
> > >> of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure
> >
> > FREE
> > >> email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
> > messaging
> > >> with Hush
> > >> Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
> > >> security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
> > >> http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
> > >> /]
> >
> =———————————————————————
> >
> > =[\
> > >> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >> \]
> >
> =———————————————————————
> >
> > =[/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
> > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /]
> >
> =———————————————————————
> >
> > =[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/
> > IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]
> >
> =———————————————————————
> >
> > =[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> >
> > a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> > www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> > My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> > interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
> > those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.
>
>
>
>
> Discover Yahoo!
> Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
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>
> \]=—————————————————————
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>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: b <bolasov@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 5:02:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee Albert wrote:
Hi b,

I have promoted the idea of beginners begin low for this very reason:

see http://www.my-eboga.com/safety.html
Seems totally reasonable to me.  Why would someone /not/ use this approach?  Are there some downsides to it that aren’t obvious?

and I had no idea there were this many deaths. I am pissed off that people think they can play God and leave the rest of us out in the dark. I will be revising my book to warn vulnerable people properly of the risks and perhaps suggest a better way.

Why can’t a person be slowly rehabilitated and have their health partially restored before a full dose? I am beginning to think that full dose therapy for chronic addiction is irresponsible and unethical.

Perhaps the way forward to is draw up proper guidelines and to get people to sign up to them. Then I can post on my web site the providers who are operating ethically.

If i were an investigative journalist with a bias against ibogaine I think this would be the perfect expose to write: get into the movement and find out the facts.

The time has come for a charter and for ethically minded providers to sign up.This situation could set back the cause of ibogaine for decades.

Vector: Perhaps the seminar should be:

An Ethical Approach to Treatment: The Provider’s Charter.

Lee

b <bolasov@sonic.net> wrote:
Isn’t there some “middle way” possible in ibogaine therapy?  I haven’t heard many people talking about starting off with low dosages to see how it goes.  Is there really a need to start immediately with potentially life-threatening doses?  Or is this just about economics – the time it would take for experimentation would end up costing too much?

[This from someone who’s never taken ibogaine.]

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
Hey, I don’t think there is a cover up, but people don’t feel the need
to report, after they get their $5000 dollars they can feel good about
giving someone their last chance of getting clean, the pre treatment
condition of a person has nothing to do with getting his/her money or
their last chance.Don’t forget that for a mexican Doctor 5000$ is worth
taking the risk.

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement that

promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high risk at
least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may one day erupt
and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior to
treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their own risks
and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference) on
this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open
including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they don’t
care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere

but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots
of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new
site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then
he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who
all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much
of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where
to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very > informative
.I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 – Release Date: 5/17/2005

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 – Release Date: 5/17/2005

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:58:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Personally, I only know about the six recorded ibogaine-related deaths – all
around non-clinical settings I believe. But I strongly believe it’s pure
bullshit to withhold information about ibogaine related fatalities. I don’t
care about the excuses for not revealing – that it’s counter-productive to
the drug’s development; that there are so many people that die from heroin
or methadone that ibogaine is needed and this justifies not telling; that
there’s no total proof ibogaine caused the death; whatever. That’s all
bullshit to me. (That said, I will still keep confidences if I’m told
something on the premise I don’t publish it. I wouldn’t break my word.)

The basic action of ibogaine psychologically is to attempt to reveal a
person’s deeper truth to them. To keep a lot of secrets about this drug is
just a big fear trip at the end of the day and to me it’s totally delusional
to believe this can assist ibogaine’s emergence into our world. If it
happens, good or bad, it should be revealed. That’s my position.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: 17 May 2005 21:14
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

You would need to ask the people who had deaths, I didn’t know there
were more deaths much less this many.

It is a little strange, I haven’t looked at any of the sites in a long
time but Randy Hencken did vanish, there is no mention of him at all on
Mexico’s site.

http://www.detoxnaturally.com

His job is now being done by someone named Nathan.

You look up Randy on the internet and he was the person who took in all
the patients

http://www.google.com/search?q=randy+hencken

He used to post here all the time I thought he was busy but he does
look like he was removed not like he moved on to something else but
like he never existed at Mexico at all.

How do you plan to give a seminar when the people who supposedly know
aren’t saying anything, what’s the title of it, ‘there are more
ibogaine deaths we think’. Who, what person, when?

It doesn’t look like it’s much news to people posting to this list
either, I guess a lot of people do know. Including MAPS who posts that
they’re working with the clinic and then the clinic closed, when it’s
not closed.

http://www.maps.org/ibogaine

Everybody lied and covered something up. So much for ethical
psychedelic research.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement
that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a
little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high
risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may
one day erupt and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior

to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their
own risks and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference)
on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open

including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they
don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of
not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted
anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it.
right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers,

lots of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to
everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I
quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in
writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the
Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a

new site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine
Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and

then he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more
money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay
someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick
on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people

who all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told
to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not

much of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on
where to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very >
informative .I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People
have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever
wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings
in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have

heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure

FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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/]

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over

a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:40:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi b,

I have promoted the idea of beginners begin low for this very reason:

see http://www.my-eboga.com/safety.html

and I had no idea there were this many deaths. I am pissed off that people think they can play God and leave the rest of us out in the dark. I will be revising my book to warn vulnerable people properly of the risks and perhaps suggest a better way.

Why can’t a person be slowly rehabilitated and have their health partially restored before a full dose? I am beginning to think that full dose therapy for chronic addiction is irresponsible and unethical.

Perhaps the way forward to is draw up proper guidelines and to get people to sign up to them. Then I can post on my web site the providers who are operating ethically.

If i were an investigative journalist with a bias against ibogaine I think this would be the perfect expose to write: get into the movement and find out the facts.

The time has come for a charter and for ethically minded providers to sign up.This situation could set back the cause of ibogaine for decades.

Vector: Perhaps the seminar should be:

An Ethical Approach to Treatment: The Provider’s Charter.

Lee

b <bolasov@sonic.net> wrote:
Isn’t there some “middle way” possible in ibogaine therapy?  I haven’t heard many people talking about starting off with low dosages to see how it goes.  Is there really a need to start immediately with potentially life-threatening doses?  Or is this just about economics – the time it would take for experimentation would end up costing too much?

[This from someone who’s never taken ibogaine.]

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
Hey, I don’t think there is a cover up, but people don’t feel the need
to report, after they get their $5000 dollars they can feel good about
giving someone their last chance of getting clean, the pre treatment
condition of a person has nothing to do with getting his/her money or
their last chance.Don’t forget that for a mexican Doctor 5000$ is worth
taking the risk.

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement that

promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high risk at
least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may one day erupt
and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior to
treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their own risks
and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference) on
this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open
including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they don’t
care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere

but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots
of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new
site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then
he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who
all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much
of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where
to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very > informative
.I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 – Release Date: 5/17/2005

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: b <bolasov@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:18:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Isn’t there some “middle way” possible in ibogaine therapy?  I haven’t heard many people talking about starting off with low dosages to see how it goes.  Is there really a need to start immediately with potentially life-threatening doses?  Or is this just about economics – the time it would take for experimentation would end up costing too much?

[This from someone who’s never taken ibogaine.]

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
Hey, I don’t think there is a cover up, but people don’t feel the need
to report, after they get their $5000 dollars they can feel good about
giving someone their last chance of getting clean, the pre treatment
condition of a person has nothing to do with getting his/her money or
their last chance.Don’t forget that for a mexican Doctor 5000$ is worth
taking the risk.

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement that

promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high risk at
least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may one day erupt
and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior to
treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their own risks
and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference) on
this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open
including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they don’t
care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere

but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots
of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new
site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then
he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who
all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much
of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where
to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very > informative
.I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 – Release Date: 5/17/2005

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:14:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You would need to ask the people who had deaths, I didn’t know there
were more deaths much less this many.

It is a little strange, I haven’t looked at any of the sites in a long
time but Randy Hencken did vanish, there is no mention of him at all on
Mexico’s site.

http://www.detoxnaturally.com

His job is now being done by someone named Nathan.

You look up Randy on the internet and he was the person who took in all
the patients

http://www.google.com/search?q=randy+hencken

He used to post here all the time I thought he was busy but he does
look like he was removed not like he moved on to something else but
like he never existed at Mexico at all.

How do you plan to give a seminar when the people who supposedly know
aren’t saying anything, what’s the title of it, ‘there are more
ibogaine deaths we think’. Who, what person, when?

It doesn’t look like it’s much news to people posting to this list
either, I guess a lot of people do know. Including MAPS who posts that
they’re working with the clinic and then the clinic closed, when it’s
not closed.

http://www.maps.org/ibogaine

Everybody lied and covered something up. So much for ethical
psychedelic research.

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement
that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a
little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high
risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may
one day erupt and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior

to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their
own risks and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference)
on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open

including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they
don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of
not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted
anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it.
right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers,

lots of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to
everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I
quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in
writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the
Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a

new site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine
Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and

then he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more
money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay
someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick
on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people

who all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told
to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not

much of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on
where to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very >
informative .I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People
have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever
wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings
in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have

heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure

FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
/]

=———————————————————————

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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]

=———————————————————————

=[/

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

/]

=———————————————————————

=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/
IbogaineList.html [%]
\]

=———————————————————————

=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over

a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for
those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] from “The Onion”
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:13:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BUSH PROMISES MAKING OF PERFECT ROMANTIC COMEDY

WASHINGTON, DC—Making a bold statement of appeal to “the long-standing
spirit of entrepreneurial enterprise in this great nation” Monday,
President Bush challenged the U.S. entertainment industry to produce
the perfect romantic comedy by summer 2009.

Above: Bush urges Americans to do their part and “go west” to Hollywood.
“My fellow Americans, it’s time for another Sleepless In Seattle,”
Bush said in a special prime-time address to the nation. “America has
the technology. We have the market-research capacity. We have the
publicity engines, the screenwriting workshops, and the deal-making
power. If we all pull together, we can create the perfect romantic
comedy. And America will be able to hold its head high again.”

Bush said the U.S. is “prepped to win this.”

“By 2009, our best teen stars—potential giants like Lindsay Lohan and
that guy who played Stifler—will be at the exact right age to appeal
to the crucial 18-to-39 female demographic,” Bush said. “No other
nation approaches America’s resources and capabilities in the area of
romantic entertainment.”

According to White House officials, recent efforts to create the
ultimate romantic comedy, such as Fever Pitch, A Lot Like Love, and
Little Black Book, have failed to generate much public interest
domestically or internationally.

“It’s been 15 years since we had a film as charming as Pretty Woman,”
Bush said. “These troubled times call for another film with the power
to unite us. If we believe in ourselves and in the principles upon
which this great democracy rests, we can create, distribute, and
market a romantic comedy that will make us laugh and cry.”

“We built the first intercontinental railroad,” Bush continued. “We
invented the electric light bulb. We even split the atom. It’s time to
remind the world what we’re capable of: If we can put a man on the
moon, we can make a man and a woman who appear to dislike each other
intensely fall madly in love before the closing credits roll.”

Dubbing his romantic-comedy initiative “Operation Meet-Cute,” Bush
proposed that Congress earmark $20 billion to aid Hollywood in
creating the film. He called on studio heads to “put aside differences
and pull together for the common goal,” urging executives to “take the
long view, and think of the sequel.”

Bush proposed adding a special “romcom tax” to all movie tickets, in
order to allow all Americans to “do their part for Hollywood and for
their country.”

The president also urged all able-minded citizens to “join the fight”
by pitching ideas for humorous and touching scenarios.

Above: A scene from When Harry Met Sally, a quality romantic comedy
from America’s past.
“If you’re not in Hollywood already, go west, young man!” Bush said.
“We need you to dig in and create fresh plotlines in which celebrities
fall in love under unusual, entertaining circumstances.”

According to Will Greenberg, director of the White Knights, a
Harvard-based think tank that has volunteered their services,
fulfilling the commander in chief’s orders will require much work.

“We need to see a heartbroken male lead lose the girl at the end of
the second act, but maintain our sympathy, so we get the requisite
goose bumps when he wins her heart again at the end of the third,”
Greenberg said. “We need fast-paced, witty banter, and a few
well-executed sight gags.”

“We also need one wacky sister, saucy coworker, or gay neighbor in
whom the heroine can confide,” Greenberg continued. “To really do this
right, the secondary character needs to be slightly quirky, someone a
bit less conformist than the female lead.”

Via phone Tuesday, Bush offered additional words of encouragement.

“This may seem like an impossible dream, but it once seemed impossible
that Harry and Sally would end up together,” Bush said. “But they did.
How? With American hard work, know-how, and ingenuity.”

Added Bush: “Ben Stiller and Jennifer Aniston didn’t give up. Adam
Sandler and Drew Barrymore didn’t give up. The troops fighting for our
freedom in Iraq haven’t given up. Nora Ephron hasn’t given up. And
neither will this nation.”

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:02:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, I don’t think there is a cover up, but people don’t feel the need
to report, after they get their $5000 dollars they can feel good about
giving someone their last chance of getting clean, the pre treatment
condition of a person has nothing to do with getting his/her money or
their last chance.Don’t forget that for a mexican Doctor 5000$ is worth
taking the risk.

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement that
promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high risk at
least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may one day erupt
and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior to
treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their own risks
and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference) on
this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open
including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground
treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they don’t
care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots
of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new
site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then
he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who
all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much
of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17, wrote:
From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where
to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very > informative
.I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant
messaging
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.

My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 3:32:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How can anyone have it on their conscious to be part of a movement that promotes ibogaine and then covers up the deaths? Isn’t that a little sick?

A proper risk evaluation that shows that those who died where high risk at least sets the stage properly instead of a scandal that may one day erupt and screw us all.

I would not want that on my conscience.

If there is a 50/50 chance of death that should be established prior to treatment and noted and signed. Then the person is taking their own risks and the death has been properly recorded.

I think there should be a seminar (at the next ibogaine conference) on this whole area and get it properly dealt with and out in the open including evaluating the safety of clinical settings vs underground treatments.

Lee

sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:
>

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere
> but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right
> howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots of
> the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody
> knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote
> from MAPS.
>
> January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
> selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing
> grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
> detoxification services to 20 people.
>
> January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine
> Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new site
> to restart data collection
>
> January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine Association
>
> In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
> archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.
>
> The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then he
> didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money.
>
> if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone
> to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on
> patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who all
> think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the
> media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much of
> a secret.
>
> — On Tue 05/17, wrote:
> From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
>
>> — shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where to
>> find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very > informative .I
>> did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People have died
>> even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever wrote
>> this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings in
>> connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have heard
>> of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure FREE
>> email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant messaging
>> with Hush
>> Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
>> security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
>> http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
>> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 3:04:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matthew if you do ibogaine again, will you please have
your heart checked with a doctor? If you still have
chest pain when you even lay on it and have your heart
hurting when you take ibogaine, it would be a loss to
the world if the next death was you. Please find out
if there is anything wrong with your heart before
doing ibogaine again!

Love

Carla B

— matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
wrote:

———————————

yes people have died in clinical settings and
unfortunetly will keep on dying

Love

Namaste
Matthew

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 17, 2005 at 2:52:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a weird attitude to have, that someone who
spends more then 2 years of their time making a film
which I’m sure cost a lot of money is obligated to
give it away to you for free and then you can steal
more copies of it and give them away.

I haven’t seen the film yet and did complain about the
old website not having any place to order, but thats
got nothing to do with someone making a film and you
feeling they owe you something. what do you do except
post mp3s of belching and throwing up noises.

So there are dead bodies, whatev happened at mexico is
their problem and if they choose to handle it by
pretending it didn’t happen then what does that prove
except ibogaine with doctors isn’t any safer then the
underground. How many dead bodies are there from
heroin and crack, lot more. I think anyone who is
going to take ibogaine has the right to know the risks
but then its their choice and I dont think anyone has
ever said its perfectly safe, every ibogaine article
i’ve ever read online always comes with warnings. I
know when I did it I was desperate, so i can die, so
what, how’s that different then my life every day was
as a junkie?

Carla B

— Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com> wrote:
if public relations is really the  concern, it would
be availible on-line at no cost.

if you want me to show it to doctors, send me a
copy,
and I will
burn lots of copies and give them away.

if public relations is really the concern, in the
interest of making ibogaine or it’s derivitives
availible to the people who need them (which is
obviouslly a worthy goal)

just thoughts.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Tink, I think we should all be showing our DR’s
the
movie Ben shot, and
giving them all the info we can get. We get enough
of those guys behind us it might
make a difference in how Ibogaine is scheduled.
Who
knows? Couldn’t hoit.”
Meanwhile I’m floating nicely at home in the
Catskills. Thanx for askin.’
Randy

__________________________________
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mobile phone.
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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….
Date: May 17, 2005 at 2:15:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mr friend just brought up an excellent question that I couldn’t
answer, and i was hoping one of you might have some info:
If you have a chemical imbalance before you do ibogaine, and if the
low dose of suboxone you’re taking works well as an anti-depressant,
is the reset going to put you back to depression, or will it do
anything to help reset the imbalance you started out with?
Do you go back to your own personal normal or is it what we all wish
waas normal?
Thank you thank you thank you!
tink-in-hell and Vyvky

everything is possible there is no rule, but what I have experieced
is that Iboga can teach you how to deal with depression.

depression , on what level?
normal is ups and downs, we no puppets here.

sure Iboga can reset the imbalance, what do you want to believe?.no one
can promiss you anything without knowing the person.

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 2:09:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry to hear that, but no one informed me,probably because they don’t care.

but no one died here, some died few weeks or years after because of not
listening to their bodies, begging stop!
thanks for letting me know!

Sara

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere
but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right
howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots of
the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody
knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote
from MAPS.

January 28, 2005. Iboga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada
selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing
grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer
detoxification services to 20 people.

January 21, 2005.  Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine
Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new site
to restart data collection

January 10, 2005. Data collection begins at the Ibogaine Association

In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are
archived on archive.org or in google’s cache.

The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then he
didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money.

if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone
to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on
patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who all
think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the
media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much of
a secret.

— On Tue 05/17,   wrote:
From:  [mailto: slowone@hush.ai]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble

— shelley krupa wrote:> > > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where to
find the > information about heart stuff ,that was very > informative .I
did look earlier but obviously not in > the right spot.People have died
even in clinical> setting, with ekg’s,etc.Shelley (or whoever wrote
this), are you saying that people have died in clinical settings in
connection with taking ibogaine? If so, this is the first I have heard
of it.Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to getsecure FREE
email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2Free, ultra-private instant messaging
with Hush
Messengerhttp://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434Promote
security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Here’s a question I couldn’t answer….
Date: May 17, 2005 at 1:58:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mr friend just brought up an excellent question that I couldn’t
answer, and i was hoping one of you might have some info:
If you have a chemical imbalance before you do ibogaine, and if the
low dose of suboxone you’re taking works well as an anti-depressant,
is the reset going to put you back to depression, or will it do
anything to help reset the imbalance you started out with?
Do you go back to your own personal normal or is it what we all wish
waas normal?
Thank you thank you thank you!
tink-in-hell and Vyvky

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From: “geoff” <gdr1999@excite.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 1:33:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

that’s because half of what is really happening is never posted anywhere but its not like everybody who runs ibogaine doesn’t know it. right howard, patrick, dana, sara, eric, all the underground providers, lots of the patients. mexico has had at least 3 dead bodies, back to everybody knowing it they are still listed as closed on different sites. I quote from MAPS. January 28, 2005.營boga Therapy House (ITH), Vancouver, BC, Canada selected as new site for data collection. MAPS assists ITH in writing grant application to Health Canada for a pilot project to offer detoxification services to 20 people. January 21, 2005. Data collection prematurely ended at the Ibogaine Association due to clinic closing. We are currently looking for a new site to restart data collection January 10, 2005.燚ata collection begins at the Ibogaine Association In case someone wakes up and remembers to edit this, the pages are archived on archive.org or in google’s cache. The only thing that changed is randy hencken was there one day and then he didn’t exist anymore. business as usual, more money and more money. if mash has had any dead bodies then she has enough money to pay someone to make sure the hole is dug real deep, right patrick? not to pick on patrick, because he’s no different then this same group of people who all think they know what’s best for ibogaine and decide what is told to the media or not, because the media always talks to them but it’s not much of a secret. — On Tue 05/17, < slowone@hush.ai > wrote: From: [mailto: slowone@hush.ai] To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:48:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble > — shelley krupa wrote:
>
> > Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where to find the
> information about heart stuff ,that was very
> informative .I did look earlier but obviously not in
> the right spot.People have died even in clinical
> setting, with ekg’s,etc.

Shelley (or whoever wrote this), are you saying that people have
died in clinical settings in connection with taking ibogaine? If
so, this is the first I have heard of it.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 1:10:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes, humans do that.

yes people have died in clinical settings and unfortunetly will keep on
dying
Love

Namaste MatthewSend junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with  MSN
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] flexible traditions
Date: May 17, 2005 at 1:08:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

of course scientific study is needed more.

the
problem  is when
the methodes used during scientific
study become tradition,

especially if other methodes
are discredited in the process.

As if one view is
somehow more “the way”
then anothers.

yes a system without bounderies is nothing, but the
framework should remain teachable and above all,
flexible.

http://tarot.com/oracle/images/hexagrams/pict27.jpeg

Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 1:01:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yes people have died in clinical settings and unfortunetly will keep on dying
Love

Namaste
Matthew

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 17, 2005 at 1:00:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

if public relations is really the  concern, it would
be availible on-line at no cost.

if you want me to show it to doctors, send me a
copy,
and I will
burn lots of copies and give them away.

if public relations is really the concern, in the
interest of making ibogaine or it’s derivitives
availible to the people who need them (which is
obviouslly a worthy goal)

just thoughts.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Tink, I think we should all be showing our DR’s the
movie Ben shot, and
giving them all the info we can get. We get enough
of those guys behind us it might
make a difference in how Ibogaine is scheduled. Who
knows? Couldn’t hoit.”
Meanwhile I’m floating nicely at home in the
Catskills. Thanx for askin.’
Randy

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Trouble
Date: May 17, 2005 at 12:48:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— shelley krupa wrote:

Hey Carla ,thanks for your tip on where to find the
information about heart stuff ,that was very
informative .I did look earlier but obviously not in
the right spot.People have died even in clinical
setting, with ekg’s,etc.

Shelley (or whoever wrote this), are you saying that people have
died in clinical settings in connection with taking ibogaine? If
so, this is the first I have heard of it.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: MrPure@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease – Demonising Ibogaine – ibogaine did not caus…
Date: May 17, 2005 at 12:33:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

loved the email, if I had not done the ibogaine I would have ended up dead anyway!
have a good day.
peace to you all, long live dana beal…
James

From: darkmattersfo@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 17, 2005 at 11:50:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The website is still being redone and if you surf to it (http://www.lunartproductions.com/) you get an “under construction” display.

I’m checking it everyday! I can’t wait to see the DVD.

————– Original message ————–
Thanks Randy ,do you know if it is now available?,fondly shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/26/2005 1:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, daluna@mindvox.com writes:

Dear People of the List,

I just wanted to inform you about the following;

As the dollar is so low in comparison with the euro, I have been looking
for
a way to be able to offer the DVD’s of Ibogaine – Rite of Passage for a
better price for non-euro countries. We found a way to not pay tax on it,
so
the price we can offer the DVD’s for will be 16.99 euro’s. Sending costs
will still be 3 euro’s.

I hope to have the website up by next week, on which the Paypal shopping
cart will be functional. As soon as that’s done, you will receive a
newsletter.

Best Regards,

Ben De Loenen
Director/Producer

Op 21/4/2005 schreef “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>:

>
>Dear people of the Ibogaine list,
>
>I am the director/producer of the Ibogaine documentary. THe current
>website of LunArt Productions is a big disaster, indeed. It’s not
>clear, no screenshots, no real online shop,… As I am totally not
>familiar with webdesign, I really chose the wrong webdesigner for this
>job in the first place. So at the moment I have another webdesigner,
>who’s really good and building a much more extendid, easy-to-use and
>complete website system and Paypal will be functional on this website.
>For this kind of website, I had to change server and move the domain,
>which I hope will be done in the next few days, so everything can be
>uploaded. Also next to the LunArt Productions site, there will be a
>website www.ibogainefilm.com, solely on the Ibogaine documentary,
>that’s linked to it. One thing is clear, all this webstuff makes me
>crazy! But very, very soon (and I’ve been saying this to people that
>sent me an ‘order video’ form before, but due to the whole
>reorganizing it didn’t work out), I will post another mail on this
>forum to tell everybody it’s FINALLY working.
>
>As for the DVD, the price is 20 euro’s and sending costs are 3 euro’s
>for sending it basically to the whole world. The DVD features subtitles
>in 5 languages (English, Spanish, French, Dutch and German), a surround
>theather and a stereo TV mix of the soundtrack, the trailer, info pages
>on the treatment centres that cooperated, organizations involved,…
>
>If there are people that wish to be added to the LunArt Productions
>mailing list, to be kept updated on future screenings and broadcast of
>the film and new projects, please send a message to
>info@lunartproductions.com. To be clear; I don’t give your email
>addresses to 3th parties or use them for other purposes and if you like
>to unsubscribe afterwards, you just send another message to ask it.
>All this info and much more will be on www.lunArtproductions.com soon…
>Thanks for the interest in, and appreciation of this 2,5 year project.
>
>Peace,
>
>Ben De Loenen
>
>PS: Preston, thanx for the kind words…
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Op 17/4/2005 schreef “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>:
>
>>It is an AWESOME video, the one by Ben de Loenen- I watched it as soon as I
>>could crawl from the bed to my x-box and put it in yesterday. Really was a
>>perfect video for me and V to watch after that travail.
>>
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston
>>
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>>mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>—– Original Message —–
>>From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:04 PM
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine video and good luck preston!!! and marc!
>>
>>
>>> Hi again Marc and good luck this time!
>>>
>>> Preston!!! sending you good energy!
>>>
>>> — mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Patrick, your comment on the Ibo DVD  when you
>>>> say that if you take it more than three times then
>>>> the problem is with you” well all I can say to that
>>>> is that of course the problem is with us which is
>>>> why we are all here in the first place. Iboga is a
>>>> tool nothing more. It gives you a chance to work
>>>> things out. Like Randy H. so eliquently put it, a
>>>> window. After that its up to us.
>>>
>>> That’s too funny 🙂 That’s one of the Dr. Mash quotes
>>> in every interview she’s ever done in the last 5 years
>>> 😉
>>>
>>> Where do I order the ibogaine video??? People come
>>> here and talk about seeing screenings or buying it
>>> somewhere but there is nothing at all on the website.
>>> No price, no way to pay. Nothing nothing nothing!
>>>
>>> Am I blind and missing it? All I can find is this
>>>
>>> http://lunartproductions.com/html/order.htm
>>>
>>> There is no price, no way to input a real order, there
>>> is only a email form. Is it still not released??
>>>
>>> Carla B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> Make Yahoo! your home page
>>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>>> [%]
>>>
>>> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  /]=———————————————————————=[\
>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>  \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>  \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 17, 2005 at 11:38:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/21/2005 5:09:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, daluna@mindvox.com writes:
Sorry about the last one. The address is in  this message from Ben.   Randy

I am the director/producer of the Ibogaine documentary. THe current
website of LunArt Productions is a big disaster, indeed. It’s not
clear, no screenshots, no real online shop,… As I am totally not
familiar with webdesign, I really chose the wrong webdesigner for this
job in the first place. So at the moment I have another webdesigner,
who’s really good and building a much more extendid, easy-to-use and
complete website system and Paypal will be functional on this website.
For this kind of website, I had to change server and move the domain,
which I hope will be done in the next few days, so everything can be
uploaded. Also next to the LunArt Productions site, there will be a
website www.ibogainefilm.com, solely on the Ibogaine documentary,
that’s linked to it. One thing is clear, all this webstuff makes me
crazy! But very, very soon (and I’ve been saying this to people that
sent me an ‘order video’ form before, but due to the whole
reorganizing it didn’t work out), I will post another mail on this
forum to tell everybody it’s FINALLY working.

As for the DVD, the price is 20 euro’s and sending costs are 3 euro’s
for sending it basically to the whole world. The DVD features subtitles
in 5 languages (English, Spanish, French, Dutch and German), a surround
theather and a stereo TV mix of the soundtrack, the trailer, info pages
on the treatment centres that cooperated, organizations involved,…

If there are people that wish to be added to the LunArt Productions
mailing list, to be kept updated on future screenings and broadcast of
the film and new projects, please send a message to
info@lunartproductions.com. To be clear; I don’t give your email
addresses to 3th parties or use them for other purposes and if you like
to unsubscribe afterwards, you just send another message to ask it.
All this info and much more will be on www.lunArtproductions.com soon…
Thanks for the interest in, and appreciation of this 2,5 year project.

Peace,

Ben De Loenen

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 17, 2005 at 11:20:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Randy ,do you know if it is now available?,fondly shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/26/2005 1:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, daluna@mindvox.com writes:

Dear People of the List,

I just wanted to inform you about the following;

As the dollar is so low in comparison with the euro, I have been looking
for
a way to be able to offer the DVD’s of Ibogaine – Rite of Passage for a
better price for non-euro countries. We found a way to not pay tax on it,
so
the price we can offer the DVD’s for will be 16.99 euro’s. Sending costs
will still be 3 euro’s.

I hope to have the website up by next week, on which the Paypal shopping
cart will be functional. As soon as that’s done, you will receive a
newsletter.

Best Regards,

Ben De Loenen
Director/Producer

Op 21/4/2005 schreef “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>:

>
>Dear people of the Ibogaine list,
>
>I am the director/producer of the Ibogaine documentary. THe current
>website of LunArt Productions is a big disaster, indeed. It’s not
>clear, no screenshots, no real online shop,… As I am totally not
>familiar with webdesign, I really chose the wrong webdesigner for this
>job in the first place. So at the moment I have another webdesigner,
>who’s really good and building a much more extendid, easy-to-use and
>complete website system and Paypal will be functional on this website.
>For this kind of website, I had to change server and move the domain,
>which I hope will be done in the next few days, so everything can be
>uploaded. Also next to the LunArt Productions site, there will be a
>website www.ibogainefilm.com, solely on the Ibogaine documentary,
>that’s linked to it. One thing is clear, all this webstuff makes me
>crazy! But very, very soon (and I’ve been saying this to people that
>sent me an ‘order video’ form before, but due to the whole
>reorganizing it didn’t work out), I will post another mail on this
>forum to tell everybody it’s FINALLY working.
>
>As for the DVD, the price is 20 euro’s and sending costs are 3 euro’s
>for sending it basically to the whole world. The DVD features subtitles
>in 5 languages (English, Spanish, French, Dutch and German), a surround
>theather and a stereo TV mix of the soundtrack, the trailer, info pages
>on the treatment centres that cooperated, organizations involved,…
>
>If there are people that wish to be added to the LunArt Productions
>mailing list, to be kept updated on future screenings and broadcast of
>the film and new projects, please send a message to
>info@lunartproductions.com. To be clear; I don’t give your email
>addresses to 3th parties or use them for other purposes and if you like
>to unsubscribe afterwards, you just send another message to ask it.
>All this info and much more will be on www.lunArtproductions.com soon…
>Thanks for the interest in, and appreciation of this 2,5 year project.
>
>Peace,
>
>Ben De Loenen
>
>PS: Preston, thanx for the kind words…
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Op 17/4/2005 schreef “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>:
>
>>It is an AWESOME video, the one by Ben de Loenen- I watched it as soon as I
>>could crawl from the bed to my x-box and put it in yesterday. Really was a
>>perfect video for me and V to watch after that travail.
>>
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston
>>
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>>mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>—– Original Message —–
>>From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:04 PM
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine video and good luck preston!!! and marc!
>>
>>
>>> Hi again Marc and good luck this time!
>>>
>>> Preston!!! sending you good energy!
>>>
>>> — mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Patrick, your comment on the Ibo DVD  when you
>>>> say that if you take it more than three times then
>>>> the problem is with you” well all I can say to that
>>>> is that of course the problem is with us which is
>>>> why we are all here in the first place. Iboga is a
>>>> tool nothing more. It gives you a chance to work
>>>> things out. Like Randy H. so eliquently put it, a
>>>> window. After that its up to us.
>>>
>>> That’s too funny 🙂 That’s one of the Dr. Mash quotes
>>> in every interview she’s ever done in the last 5 years
>>> 😉
>>>
>>> Where do I order the ibogaine video??? People come
>>> here and talk about seeing screenings or buying it
>>> somewhere but there is nothing at all on the website.
>>> No price, no way to pay. Nothing nothing nothing!
>>>
>>> Am I blind and missing it? All I can find is this
>>>
>>> http://lunartproductions.com/html/order.htm
>>>
>>> There is no price, no way to input a real order, there
>>> is only a email form. Is it still not released??
>>>
>>> Carla B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> Make Yahoo! your home page
>>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>>> [%]
>>>
>>> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  /]=———————————————————————=[\
>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>  \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>  \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How to purchase ‘IBOGAINE – Rite of Passage’
Date: May 17, 2005 at 11:09:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/26/2005 1:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, daluna@mindvox.com writes:

Dear People of the List,

I just wanted to inform you about the following;

As the dollar is so low in comparison with the euro, I have been looking
for
a way to be able to offer the DVD’s of Ibogaine – Rite of Passage for a
better price for non-euro countries. We found a way to not pay tax on it,
so
the price we can offer the DVD’s for will be 16.99 euro’s. Sending costs
will still be 3 euro’s.

I hope to have the website up by next week, on which the Paypal shopping
cart will be functional. As soon as that’s done, you will receive a
newsletter.

Best Regards,

Ben De Loenen
Director/Producer

Op 21/4/2005 schreef “Ben De Loenen” <daluna@mindvox.com>:

>
>Dear people of the Ibogaine list,
>
>I am the director/producer of the Ibogaine documentary. THe current
>website of LunArt Productions is a big disaster, indeed. It’s not
>clear, no screenshots, no real online shop,… As I am totally not
>familiar with webdesign, I really chose the wrong webdesigner for this
>job in the first place. So at the moment I have another webdesigner,
>who’s really good and building a much more extendid, easy-to-use and
>complete website system and Paypal will be functional on this website.
>For this kind of website, I had to change server and move the domain,
>which I hope will be done in the next few days, so everything can be
>uploaded. Also next to the LunArt Productions site, there will be a
>website www.ibogainefilm.com, solely on the Ibogaine documentary,
>that’s linked to it. One thing is clear, all this webstuff makes me
>crazy! But very, very soon (and I’ve been saying this to people that
>sent me an ‘order video’ form before, but due to the whole
>reorganizing it didn’t work out), I will post another mail on this
>forum to tell everybody it’s FINALLY working.
>
>As for the DVD, the price is 20 euro’s and sending costs are 3 euro’s
>for sending it basically to the whole world. The DVD features subtitles
>in 5 languages (English, Spanish, French, Dutch and German), a surround
>theather and a stereo TV mix of the soundtrack, the trailer, info pages
>on the treatment centres that cooperated, organizations involved,…
>
>If there are people that wish to be added to the LunArt Productions
>mailing list, to be kept updated on future screenings and broadcast of
>the film and new projects, please send a message to
>info@lunartproductions.com. To be clear; I don’t give your email
>addresses to 3th parties or use them for other purposes and if you like
>to unsubscribe afterwards, you just send another message to ask it.
>All this info and much more will be on www.lunArtproductions.com soon…
>Thanks for the interest in, and appreciation of this 2,5 year project.
>
>Peace,
>
>Ben De Loenen
>
>PS: Preston, thanx for the kind words…
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Op 17/4/2005 schreef “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>:
>
>>It is an AWESOME video, the one by Ben de Loenen- I watched it as soon as I
>>could crawl from the bed to my x-box and put it in yesterday. Really was a
>>perfect video for me and V to watch after that travail.
>>
>>
>>Peace and love,
>>Preston
>>
>>
>>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
>>mistaken for madness”
>>Richard Davenport-Hines
>>
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
>>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>—– Original Message —–
>>From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:04 PM
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine video and good luck preston!!! and marc!
>>
>>
>>> Hi again Marc and good luck this time!
>>>
>>> Preston!!! sending you good energy!
>>>
>>> — mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Patrick, your comment on the Ibo DVD  when you
>>>> say that if you take it more than three times then
>>>> the problem is with you” well all I can say to that
>>>> is that of course the problem is with us which is
>>>> why we are all here in the first place. Iboga is a
>>>> tool nothing more. It gives you a chance to work
>>>> things out. Like Randy H. so eliquently put it, a
>>>> window. After that its up to us.
>>>
>>> That’s too funny 🙂 That’s one of the Dr. Mash quotes
>>> in every interview she’s ever done in the last 5 years
>>> 😉
>>>
>>> Where do I order the ibogaine video??? People come
>>> here and talk about seeing screenings or buying it
>>> somewhere but there is nothing at all on the website.
>>> No price, no way to pay. Nothing nothing nothing!
>>>
>>> Am I blind and missing it? All I can find is this
>>>
>>> http://lunartproductions.com/html/order.htm
>>>
>>> There is no price, no way to input a real order, there
>>> is only a email form. Is it still not released??
>>>
>>> Carla B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> Make Yahoo! your home page
>>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>>> [%]
>>>
>>> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  /]=———————————————————————=[\
>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>  \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>  \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 17, 2005 at 10:15:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey can I get the movie about ibogaine ,is it available? shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Tink, I think we should all be showing our DR’s the movie Ben shot, and giving them all the info we can get. We get enough of those guys behind us it might make a difference in how Ibogaine is scheduled. Who knows? Couldn’t hoit.” Meanwhile I’m floating nicely at home in the Catskills. Thanx for askin.’         Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 17, 2005 at 9:31:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tink, I think we should all be showing our DR’s the movie Ben shot, and giving them all the info we can get. We get enough of those guys behind us it might make a difference in how Ibogaine is scheduled. Who knows? Couldn’t hoit.” Meanwhile I’m floating nicely at home in the Catskills. Thanx for askin.’         Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] intersting excersise
Date: May 17, 2005 at 8:45:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi List….here is something really helpfull on how to stay clean……….For anyone here not familliar with Jane Roberts i strongly recomend doing a basic search on the net…….
Exercise from Chapter 16, Nature Of Personal Reality by Jane Roberts
“First of all, you must realize that you are the
hypnotist. You must seize the initiative here as you
have in other positive aspects of your life.
Whatever the superficial reasons for your beliefs,
you must say

: For a certain amount of time I will
: momentarily suspend what I believe in this
: area, and willfully accept the belief I want.
: I will pretend that I am under hypnosis, with
: myself as hypnotist and subject. For that
: time desire and belief will be one. There
: will be no conflict because I do this
: willingly. For this period I will completely
: alter my old beliefs. Even though I sit
: quietly, in my mind I will act as if the
: belief I want were mine completely.

”At this point do not think of the future, but only
of the present. If you are overweight, insert the
weight that you think is ideal for you while you are
following this exercise. Imagine that you are
healthy if you have the belief that you are not. If
you are lonely, believe that you are filled with the
feeling of companionship instead. Realize that you
are exerting your initiative to imagine such
situations. Here there can be no comparison with
your normal situation. Use visual data, or words -
whatever is most natural to you. And again, no more
than ten minutes is required.

”If you do this faithfully, within a month you will
find the new conditions materializing in your
experience. Your neurological structure will respond
automatically. The unconscious will be aroused,
bringing its great powers to bear, bringing you the
new results. Do not try to overdo this, to go
through the entire day worrying about beliefs, for
example. This can only cause you to contrast what
you have with what you want. Forget the exercise
when it is completed. You will find yourself with
impulses that arrive in line with these newly
inserted beliefs, and then it is up to you to act on
these and not ignore them. The initiative must be
yours. You will never know unless you try the
exercise.”
Namaste
Matthew

Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease – Demonising Ibogaine – ibogaine did not cause this death
Date: May 17, 2005 at 6:21:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,

I am fully with you on that.

When I had my first session I sat with baited breath to see if my EKG would be acceptable. I wanted that session more than life itself and would have walked naked in the street if I had been told that was the preamble.In fact I actually thought I had a small heart problem and hoped it would not show up.

My post is not about excluding people from session nor is it about being unrealistic about the physical state some people are in when they come to do a session. It is about the public relations aspect of ibogaine and how it gets reported.

I think that a clear and understandable description of the risks need to be described so that when someone dies the first thought is not: Oh my God, ibogaine strikes again. We have to keep it banned.

If we are serious in promoting the healing aspects of ibogaine then we cannot at the same time have a reporting system that feeds into this shadowy image of ibogaine based on a lack of understanding. For instance if it had been assessed prior to Patrick’s treatment that he was at high risk due to his diet etc then the release of news of his death should have stated this and also stated that it is likely that this was the cause of his death – not saying things like he appeared to have reasonable results from his tests.

I don’t know if I am making my point properly. Except to say that when deaths due to a million other things occur such as playing football, hiking etc the shadow is not cast onto the activity. Hence why is the shadow being continually cast onto ibogaine if the actual dangers are identified and known? The cause of death in this instance is the choice made by the person to undergo treatment and not the treatment itself – ibogaine did not cause this death.

And I too like Patrick would have made the same decision and would have been very pissed if someone tried to stop me.

Lee

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 5/16/2005 11:32:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
We also, I think, should consider the lifestyle of the person and their dietary habits – perhaps a dietary/exercise questionnaire. If they live an abused life then they should be warned that on a 1 to 10 they have a greater chance of post-session fatality.

Lee
Lee, I appreciate very much your concern. It seems to me that given the context of the situation most addicts are in, we all lived an abused life. I know that I did. At the point where we seek relief from the drugs that we do, and have become addicted to, we have pretty much lived on the edge for a while. We don’t want to stop because everything was great, it’s because everything sucked. Right down to what we eat and how much sleep we get. I know for me, if it hadn’t been for me being sick and my mother telling me to come home I may have just died anyway. No shit. Without the Ibogaine. Doing a months worth of Methadone in about a week, then kicking for 5 days, then shooting Oxy’s or scag till the next month of Methadone came around has to be a bigger risk than an Ibogaine session. I think I had the luck of the draw, or I would have died from the Hep C or blew a valve from the elevated blood pressure from kicking, or some damn thing. I know that all Ibogaine sessions aren’t for addiction, and I applaud you and others for your work, and the information you freely give out about your research. I’m coming from my experience with an addicts (ex addict now, I still can’t get over the fact that I am not addicted anymore) point of view. Ibogaine is a calculated risk, I knew the risk, I took it. I feel very bad about what happened to Patrick, but in the end he made his decision too, and I respect him for it.       Randy

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] off topic
Date: May 17, 2005 at 4:59:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://commtechlab.msu.edu/sites/aslweb/S/W3620.htm

http://moviewavs.com/TV_Shows/South_Park.shtml

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease – Demonising Ibogaine
Date: May 16, 2005 at 8:21:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm ,I eat very healthfully now ,but how many opiate addicts put much focus on their diet while in the throes of using?-shell

Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Carlton,

Thanks for all the input. It certainly has put the subject into perspective for me. What you are saying in a way is that people will die from taking ibogaine in the same way as people will die from playing a game of football etc. Which is why i would like to see these incidents properly reported on ibogaine web sites for the general public.

It’s extremely sad that someone dies and the ibogaine community do not put together a balanced report for the general public to draw proper conclusions on. Instead we are left with this eary sense that ibogaine can strike you down even after the session for strange unknown reasons. I have never seen a report that blamed football for a person’s heart attack even though they died a few days later after playing a game. After all this discussion I have a mind to write up such a report and get it on my site – once it has been ok’ed by someone in the know.

I  wrote a post here before on demonising ibogaine and it is this I had in mind. Just because someone dies post-session from taking ibogaine does not make ibogaine unsafe per see. It just means that the person was not in good health from what I can make out. Is there any evidence to the contrary? Knowing this they could have avoided the session.

If we post reports on web sites saying that someone has died and do not put it into proper perspective we are contributing to a culture of demonising ibogaine which I find irritating and irresponsible to say the least as it is not supportive of ibogaine and seems to promote a hidden shadow psychological agenda that somehow ibogaine will kill you. Yes it will but mostly in the psychological sense.

I think we need to separate the risks into those within the session (such as the firing mechanism in the heart which by proper supervision does not have to become a fatality) and those post session such as death due to cardiovascular disease. We also, I think, should consider the lifestyle of the person and their dietary habits – perhaps a dietary/exercise questionaire. If they live an abused life then they should be warned that on a 1 to 10 they have a greater chance of post-session fatality.

Lee

Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com> wrote:
Lee, there’s no magic bullet test to detect vascular heart disease, sorry.  Not as far as I know, at least.  An ECG might raise warning flag or it might not… there are several different kinds of vascular heart disease and we haven’t been told the specifics of this particular case.   Unless you know exactly what you’re looking for, it’s hard to test.

I had not noticed before that Pam had said the final diagnosis on her husband Patrick (not Pat Kroupa for those who are still confused) was vascular heart disease.  That is not related to the heart’s electrical signaling system, so in my own mind it is very possible that iboga was not a major factor here.  It could just be an unfortunate coincidence of a worn-out heart inside an abused body that couldn’t carry the weight anymore.

And I will not say any more on this subject unless there is a cardiologist present to call bullshit.
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:32 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease

Hi Krista,

Don’t worry about it.  What counts is what lies underneath and in this case your frustration towards the war on drugs which I completely empathise with.

I know how you feel and I myself find it very sad that we live in a world that seems to be getting more and more corrupt by the hour. Self interest seems to be the guiding force. Yet with eboga, amazing things can be achieved.

Regarding Patrick, if what I understand is right would not an ECG (as opposed to an EKG) have picked up his condition?

Lee

Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
Lee, what I posted was a little out of frustration and if my tone was
off then I apologize for it. My frustration was at people never
answering their email and I shouldn’t have done that because about
that Carla was right, some of my questions are already answered if I
looked them up, I guess all of them have been answered on this list
already at different times and I was frustrated that nobody replies to
my email but everyone is very busy I guess and I don’t have any right
to expect anyone to do even more things, so very sorry for that from
the heart.

The real source of my anger is the war on drugs where something like
ibogaine that can help so many, is not being given in the safest way
possible and probably never will be. I go to protests, I sign
petitions, but somehow I have the feeling that it’s more a emotional
good feeling to do these things, but they don’t change anything. I’m
saying what I think everyone who has ever been addicted to drugs
already knows and there’s no reason to carry on about it.

No matter all of what is known about ibogaine or not, I don’t think
Pam’s patrick would have died if there was a doctor there, or he was
able to get ibogaine treatment legally.

KV

On 5/15/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi Krista & Carla,
>
> I understand your frustration but I think in fairness to Carlton there has
> been no claim made on medical competance here by anyone. But what we have
> had is a discussion which points out that the EKG test is limited in its
> safety. And from what I know that is what the protocol recommends, i.e., the
> protocol is limited also due to no way of really knowing how to test for
> vascular disease.
>
> In the case of Patricks death I understand he had an EKG but he died from
> cadiovascular disease which it would not pick up, i.e, the protocol was
> being followed.
>
> Nobody is going to walk away from this discussion considering themselves
> medical experts but at least we are aware in a user friendly way of the
> limitations of the protocol and not to assume that having an EKG is the
> answer to potential heart problems.
>
> Don’t you think thats not worthwhile?
>
> Lee
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 16, 2005 at 5:33:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hear ya brother and I feel your pain once again!  He was all flipped
out, and then I told him what i knew in the most technically and
medically geared manner.  I went to med school for a bit and am a
licensed EMT so i really lathered it on, but every word i spoke was
truth.  I showed him some of the other side, and I think it blew him
out of the water.  It was great.  He’ll never speak to me again :]  I
knew what I was talking about, and he couldn’t trip me up with his
ridiculous vocabulary quiz, trying to see if i had just memorised some
paragraph to parrot.  He wants literature and the movie to show his
clients.  But, they are saving a spot for me, just in case.  he can
fuck off with his just in case, and shove it up his narrow ass.
Ahem.
I digress easily these days.
Any hoo, glad the whole ickiness was mostly averted for you.  Are you
hame now? Or floating in never never Land with the Munchkins?
Love
tink
On 5/16/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Great news. I know that this has got to help your process. My doc wouldn’t
do it. “Nope can’t do that, but I’ll give ya methadone, you know that you
can never get off that stuff, right”? He knew about the Ibogaine too. Maybe
I should call him and tell him I still don’t need his dope. I found a better
doc by the way.           Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 16, 2005 at 5:13:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great news. I know that this has got to help your process. My doc wouldn’t do it. “Nope can’t do that, but I’ll give ya methadone, you know that you can never get off that stuff, right”? He knew about the Ibogaine too. Maybe I should call him and tell him I still don’t need his dope. I found a better doc by the way.           Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Just got back from the doc’s
Date: May 16, 2005 at 3:59:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HE DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
HE SWITCHED ME TO SUBUTEX!!!!!  I didn’t give  him the royal ass
reaminig he deserved for running away from me in the parking lot,
however.  I’ll wait till I’m done-done.
Love to you all, thanx and be back later
tink

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From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] SUN IS SHINING :}
Date: May 16, 2005 at 2:48:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

spoken like a true thoroughbred.  It’s when you dont even bother to
clean the rig out and don’t even give a fuck what happens that is the
next step in the illogically ordered world os instant gratification…
Send me positive waves, people.  It’s of to the doctor’s I go, and
I’ll need all the help I can get…
luvya all
tink

On 5/16/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Matt, you know what? I don’t know if thoughts of that familiar escape ever
completely goes away. Would you want it too? I know that now when I think of
rigs, I can also think of the time I pulled one out of a beer bottle,
cleaned it with Clorox, sharpened it on a match book cover, and damn near
broke it off trying to hit that calloused ass vein I always used. I try and
think it through to it’s logical conclusion now. Ibogaine did that for me.
It gave me a reprieve from addiction long enough to think clearly. For once
in my life. Your are the man dude. Keep posting and enjoy the sunshine.
“It’s a good life, Too good to lose, and it’s a hard world, with the junky
blues” Ten Years After             Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] SUN IS SHINING :}
Date: May 16, 2005 at 2:32:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt, you know what? I don’t know if thoughts of that familiar escape ever completely goes away. Would you want it too? I know that now when I think of rigs, I can also think of the time I pulled one out of a beer bottle, cleaned it with Clorox, sharpened it on a match book cover, and damn near broke it off trying to hit that calloused ass vein I always used. I try and think it through to it’s logical conclusion now. Ibogaine did that for me. It gave me a reprieve from addiction long enough to think clearly. For once in my life. Your are the man dude. Keep posting and enjoy the sunshine.      “It’s a good life, Too good to lose, and it’s a hard world, with the junky blues” Ten Years After             Randy

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease – Demonising Ibogaine
Date: May 16, 2005 at 2:26:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou Randy for that.  I wrote an email yesterday and was going to
post it, but thought it abit harsh, so I didn’t, but the gist fo it
was along the same lines.  I know for a fact that the risk of dying
from iboga, whether during or post treatment, was far more acceptable
to me, as well as family (who were instrumental in the payment portion
of the treatment) than the alternative.  As someone who has injected
strange and unreliable substances  directly into my bloodstream for
years, bought from people who most likely hated me, by the time I came
to the point of my iboga treatment, I would’ve taken a much higher
failure rate than the one offered.  Any risk was acceptable if it
meant me getting even a portion of myself back, and, as sad and
painful it is to lose someone, no matter how, he did what he thought
was right for him.  All treatments and detoxes have a risk factor; for
instance, doesn’t rapid detox, which is considered a “safe and
legal”procedure have an “acceptable loss” rate of something like 46
people per year, or roughly 2 people a month?  There are no
guarentees, anywhere, for anyone, about anything.  I just think that
he chose to do the treatment, fully aware of the risks, and whether or
not things were done, and whatever decisions were made or not made,
the final outcome remains the same.  I would prefer to think that,
although he has left us, he went out doing something he did not decide
to do lightly.  As I said before, I know from the bottom of my heart
that I would prefer to die in an ibogaine treatment, trying to do
something  GOOD, than in a back alley or rooftop with a needle
sticking out of my arm.  And what a spiritual journey he must be on
now!!  Perhaps he’ll become a guide for someone.  I don’t know.
Anything.  But I feel, and feel strongly and deeply that sometimes
it’s just time.
I’m not trying to piss anyone off, and this isn’t meant as rude or
reproachful, just a series of thoughts roaming around in my brain for
the past few days.
I have lost almost everyone and am not belittling that at all, either.
I’d just like to think that we all have another guardian angel out
there.
Love
tink
On 5/16/05, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 5/16/2005 11:32:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

We also, I think, should consider the lifestyle of the person and their
dietary habits – perhaps a dietary/exercise questionnaire. If they live an
abused life then they should be warned that on a 1 to 10 they have a greater
chance of post-session fatality.

Lee
Lee, I appreciate very much your concern. It seems to me that given the
context of the situation most addicts are in, we all lived an abused life. I
know that I did. At the point where we seek relief from the drugs that we
do, and have become addicted to, we have pretty much lived on the edge for a
while. We don’t want to stop because everything was great, it’s because
everything sucked. Right down to what we eat and how much sleep we get. I
know for me, if it hadn’t been for me being sick and my mother telling me to
come home I may have just died anyway. No shit. Without the Ibogaine. Doing
a months worth of Methadone in about a week, then kicking for 5 days, then
shooting Oxy’s or scag till the next month of Methadone came around has to
be a bigger risk than an Ibogaine session. I think I had the luck of the
draw, or I would have died from the Hep C or blew a valve from the elevated
blood pressure from kicking, or some damn thing. I know that all Ibogaine
sessions aren’t for addiction, and I applaud you and others for your work,
and the information you freely give out about your research. I’m coming from
my experience with an addicts (ex addict now, I still can’t get over the
fact that I am not addicted anymore) point of view. Ibogaine is a calculated
risk, I knew the risk, I took it. I feel very bad about what happened to
Patrick, but in the end he made his decision too, and I respect him for it.
Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease – Demonising Ibogaine
Date: May 16, 2005 at 2:06:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 5/16/2005 11:32:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
We also, I think, should consider the lifestyle of the person and their dietary habits – perhaps a dietary/exercise questionnaire. If they live an abused life then they should be warned that on a 1 to 10 they have a greater chance of post-session fatality.

Lee
Lee, I appreciate very much your concern. It seems to me that given the context of the situation most addicts are in, we all lived an abused life. I know that I did. At the point where we seek relief from the drugs that we do, and have become addicted to, we have pretty much lived on the edge for a while. We don’t want to stop because everything was great, it’s because everything sucked. Right down to what we eat and how much sleep we get. I know for me, if it hadn’t been for me being sick and my mother telling me to come home I may have just died anyway. No shit. Without the Ibogaine. Doing a months worth of Methadone in about a week, then kicking for 5 days, then shooting Oxy’s or scag till the next month of Methadone came around has to be a bigger risk than an Ibogaine session. I think I had the luck of the draw, or I would have died from the Hep C or blew a valve from the elevated blood pressure from kicking, or some damn thing. I know that all Ibogaine sessions aren’t for addiction, and I applaud you and others for your work, and the information you freely give out about your research. I’m coming from my experience with an addicts (ex addict now, I still can’t get over the fact that I am not addicted anymore) point of view. Ibogaine is a calculated risk, I knew the risk, I took it. I feel very bad about what happened to Patrick, but in the end he made his decision too, and I respect him for it.       Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease – Demonising Ibogaine
Date: May 16, 2005 at 11:23:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Carlton,

Thanks for all the input. It certainly has put the subject into perspective for me. What you are saying in a way is that people will die from taking ibogaine in the same way as people will die from playing a game of football etc. Which is why i would like to see these incidents properly reported on ibogaine web sites for the general public.

It’s extremely sad that someone dies and the ibogaine community do not put together a balanced report for the general public to draw proper conclusions on. Instead we are left with this eary sense that ibogaine can strike you down even after the session for strange unknown reasons. I have never seen a report that blamed football for a person’s heart attack even though they died a few days later after playing a game. After all this discussion I have a mind to write up such a report and get it on my site – once it has been ok’ed by someone in the know.

I  wrote a post here before on demonising ibogaine and it is this I had in mind. Just because someone dies post-session from taking ibogaine does not make ibogaine unsafe per see. It just means that the person was not in good health from what I can make out. Is there any evidence to the contrary? Knowing this they could have avoided the session.

If we post reports on web sites saying that someone has died and do not put it into proper perspective we are contributing to a culture of demonising ibogaine which I find irritating and irresponsible to say the least as it is not supportive of ibogaine and seems to promote a hidden shadow psychological agenda that somehow ibogaine will kill you. Yes it will but mostly in the psychological sense.

I think we need to separate the risks into those within the session (such as the firing mechanism in the heart which by proper supervision does not have to become a fatality) and those post session such as death due to cardiovascular disease. We also, I think, should consider the lifestyle of the person and their dietary habits – perhaps a dietary/exercise questionaire. If they live an abused life then they should be warned that on a 1 to 10 they have a greater chance of post-session fatality.

Lee

Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com> wrote:
Lee, there’s no magic bullet test to detect vascular heart disease, sorry.  Not as far as I know, at least.  An ECG might raise warning flag or it might not… there are several different kinds of vascular heart disease and we haven’t been told the specifics of this particular case.   Unless you know exactly what you’re looking for, it’s hard to test.

I had not noticed before that Pam had said the final diagnosis on her husband Patrick (not Pat Kroupa for those who are still confused) was vascular heart disease.  That is not related to the heart’s electrical signaling system, so in my own mind it is very possible that iboga was not a major factor here.  It could just be an unfortunate coincidence of a worn-out heart inside an abused body that couldn’t carry the weight anymore.

And I will not say any more on this subject unless there is a cardiologist present to call bullshit.
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:32 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease

Hi Krista,

Don’t worry about it.  What counts is what lies underneath and in this case your frustration towards the war on drugs which I completely empathise with.

I know how you feel and I myself find it very sad that we live in a world that seems to be getting more and more corrupt by the hour. Self interest seems to be the guiding force. Yet with eboga, amazing things can be achieved.

Regarding Patrick, if what I understand is right would not an ECG (as opposed to an EKG) have picked up his condition?

Lee

Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
Lee, what I posted was a little out of frustration and if my tone was
off then I apologize for it. My frustration was at people never
answering their email and I shouldn’t have done that because about
that Carla was right, some of my questions are already answered if I
looked them up, I guess all of them have been answered on this list
already at different times and I was frustrated that nobody replies to
my email but everyone is very busy I guess and I don’t have any right
to expect anyone to do even more things, so very sorry for that from
the heart.

The real source of my anger is the war on drugs where something like
ibogaine that can help so many, is not being given in the safest way
possible and probably never will be. I go to protests, I sign
petitions, but somehow I have the feeling that it’s more a emotional
good feeling to do these things, but they don’t change anything. I’m
saying what I think everyone who has ever been addicted to drugs
already knows and there’s no reason to carry on about it.

No matter all of what is known about ibogaine or not, I don’t think
Pam’s patrick would have died if there was a doctor there, or he was
able to get ibogaine treatment legally.

KV

On 5/15/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi Krista & Carla,
>
> I understand your frustration but I think in fairness to Carlton there has
> been no claim made on medical competance here by anyone. But what we have
> had is a discussion which points out that the EKG test is limited in its
> safety. And from what I know that is what the protocol recommends, i.e., the
> protocol is limited also due to no way of really knowing how to test for
> vascular disease.
>
> In the case of Patricks death I understand he had an EKG but he died from
> cadiovascular disease which it would not pick up, i.e, the protocol was
> being followed.
>
> Nobody is going to walk away from this discussion considering themselves
> medical experts but at least we are aware in a user friendly way of the
> limitations of the protocol and not to assume that having an EKG is the
> answer to potential heart problems.
>
> Don’t you think thats not worthwhile?
>
> Lee
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Tsogo ozamboga sun shine a chance to cut is a chance to cure (matmos) CYP2D6
Date: May 16, 2005 at 8:56:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey cool shit :} thanks for sharing that…..how long did it take u to do that :]]
keep em coming:}

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] SUN IS SHINING :}
Date: May 16, 2005 at 8:27:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YES finally the sun is shining and i m content with that sunshine…whorah!!!!! so glad i went through the bullshit again…
isnit funny when u decide to quit how u throw away all ur works etc only to be looking for them a few days laer when u really sick…i must have done that millions of times “thats it better throw it awy” and then fuck why did i throw it away i know i could have found something on that spoon to cook up….so glad i did it though……im on a home stretch now…..feeling good …cravings >?what cravings….yah right…..
life causes u so much pain
better take a rig and take it all away–umm better not cause it will only case more pain…..
ah a new day …Love !!!!

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease
Date: May 16, 2005 at 7:19:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The fact is junkies are one of the most unhealthy people living on this planet……that said it is not suprising there are so many deaths….ibogaine is a serious medicine…..
getting back to the ekg,ecg etc who knows….i mean i went to the cardiologist after i my first ibo exp and they did an ultrasound, did the ekg while running on the tread mill, the holter monitor agai and it turned out fine supposedly yet to this day i cant lie on my chest and when i get a sudden pain in my chest it almost buckles my to the floor….it is 90% better but there is still someting fucked up…i cant get any straight answers and proapably never will….that said i done ibo second time and survivied YAY!!…now just let me survive the third time and i promise ill be a good boy
Tink hang inthere sis…….ur doctor sounds like he needs some therapy…..maybe  u should turn him on to iboga:} write me!!
love and laughter and peace and compasion

Namaste
Matthew

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From: “Carlton B” <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease
Date: May 16, 2005 at 6:47:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee, there’s no magic bullet test to detect vascular heart disease, sorry.  Not as far as I know, at least.  An ECG might raise warning flag or it might not… there are several different kinds of vascular heart disease and we haven’t been told the specifics of this particular case.   Unless you know exactly what you’re looking for, it’s hard to test.

I had not noticed before that Pam had said the final diagnosis on her husband Patrick (not Pat Kroupa for those who are still confused) was vascular heart disease.  That is not related to the heart’s electrical signaling system, so in my own mind it is very possible that iboga was not a major factor here.  It could just be an unfortunate coincidence of a worn-out heart inside an abused body that couldn’t carry the weight anymore.

And I will not say any more on this subject unless there is a cardiologist present to call bullshit.
—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:32 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease

Hi Krista,

Don’t worry about it.  What counts is what lies underneath and in this case your frustration towards the war on drugs which I completely empathise with.

I know how you feel and I myself find it very sad that we live in a world that seems to be getting more and more corrupt by the hour. Self interest seems to be the guiding force. Yet with eboga, amazing things can be achieved.

Regarding Patrick, if what I understand is right would not an ECG (as opposed to an EKG) have picked up his condition?

Lee

Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
Lee, what I posted was a little out of frustration and if my tone was
off then I apologize for it. My frustration was at people never
answering their email and I shouldn’t have done that because about
that Carla was right, some of my questions are already answered if I
looked them up, I guess all of them have been answered on this list
already at different times and I was frustrated that nobody replies to
my email but everyone is very busy I guess and I don’t have any right
to expect anyone to do even more things, so very sorry for that from
the heart.

The real source of my anger is the war on drugs where something like
ibogaine that can help so many, is not being given in the safest way
possible and probably never will be. I go to protests, I sign
petitions, but somehow I have the feeling that it’s more a emotional
good feeling to do these things, but they don’t change anything. I’m
saying what I think everyone who has ever been addicted to drugs
already knows and there’s no reason to carry on about it.

No matter all of what is known about ibogaine or not, I don’t think
Pam’s patrick would have died if there was a doctor there, or he was
able to get ibogaine treatment legally.

KV

On 5/15/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi Krista & Carla,
>
> I understand your frustration but I think in fairness to Carlton there has
> been no claim made on medical competance here by anyone. But what we have
> had is a discussion which points out that the EKG test is limited in its
> safety. And from what I know that is what the protocol recommends, i.e., the
> protocol is limited also due to no way of really knowing how to test for
> vascular disease.
>
> In the case of Patricks death I understand he had an EKG but he died from
> cadiovascular disease which it would not pick up, i.e, the protocol was
> being followed.
>
> Nobody is going to walk away from this discussion considering themselves
> medical experts but at least we are aware in a user friendly way of the
> limitations of the protocol and not to assume that having an EKG is the
> answer to potential heart problems.
>
> Don’t you think thats not worthwhile?
>
> Lee
>

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vascular Disease
Date: May 16, 2005 at 5:31:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Krista,

Don’t worry about it.  What counts is what lies underneath and in this case your frustration towards the war on drugs which I completely empathise with.

I know how you feel and I myself find it very sad that we live in a world that seems to be getting more and more corrupt by the hour. Self interest seems to be the guiding force. Yet with eboga, amazing things can be achieved.

Regarding Patrick, if what I understand is right would not an ECG (as opposed to an EKG) have picked up his condition?

Lee

Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
Lee, what I posted was a little out of frustration and if my tone was
off then I apologize for it. My frustration was at people never
answering their email and I shouldn’t have done that because about
that Carla was right, some of my questions are already answered if I
looked them up, I guess all of them have been answered on this list
already at different times and I was frustrated that nobody replies to
my email but everyone is very busy I guess and I don’t have any right
to expect anyone to do even more things, so very sorry for that from
the heart.

The real source of my anger is the war on drugs where something like
ibogaine that can help so many, is not being given in the safest way
possible and probably never will be. I go to protests, I sign
petitions, but somehow I have the feeling that it’s more a emotional
good feeling to do these things, but they don’t change anything. I’m
saying what I think everyone who has ever been addicted to drugs
already knows and there’s no reason to carry on about it.

No matter all of what is known about ibogaine or not, I don’t think
Pam’s patrick would have died if there was a doctor there, or he was
able to get ibogaine treatment legally.

KV

On 5/15/05, Lee Albert wrote:
> Hi Krista & Carla,
>
> I understand your frustration but I think in fairness to Carlton there has
> been no claim made on medical competance here by anyone. But what we have
> had is a discussion which points out that the EKG test is limited in its
> safety. And from what I know that is what the protocol recommends, i.e., the
> protocol is limited also due to no way of really knowing how to test for
> vascular disease.
>
> In the case of Patricks death I understand he had an EKG but he died from
> cadiovascular disease which it would not pick up, i.e, the protocol was
> being followed.
>
> Nobody is going to walk away from this discussion considering themselves
> medical experts but at least we are aware in a user friendly way of the
> limitations of the protocol and not to assume that having an EKG is the
> answer to potential heart problems.
>
> Don’t you think thats not worthwhile?
>
> Lee
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated into eboga: www.my-eboga.com.

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tsogo ozamboga sun shine a chance to cut is a chance to cure (matmos) CYP2D6
Date: May 16, 2005 at 2:25:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/MorningWood/browse_thread/thread/f861d64fa01b477c/744b6d00fe9707f3#744b6d00fe9707f3

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] foudini says g’nite
Date: May 16, 2005 at 12:29:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m very much a cat   (PLEASE INSERT LOVER HERE LOL I am far less hairy,
well, just a bit…only a few hairballs nowadays Hehheh)
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: tink [mailto:tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 16 May 2005 2:56 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] foudini says g’nite

“I don’t think that he is the one you were meant to protect,” the
stone cat said, and as he spoke, he began to grow shimmery, and I
could see the walls of the basement through his body.  “But there will
always be someone you are meant to protect..  There always is.  We
never knew we would have to protect the queen’s throat from the
queen’s own hand.”  He was wavering and shimering and I knew that he
would soon be gone, just as I knew he had come before, and when I
poened my eyes and was again awake, I would have forgotten his visit.
“Will you come again?”  He said he didn’t know.  He only came to good,
worthy cats, and he had come to me after I threw myself upon the head
of the woodchuck who had attacked my dog.  Did I remember?
I did.
_Foudidn M Cat’s Autobiography

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